Y Cyfarfod Llawn
Plenary
12/06/2024Cynnwys
Contents
Yn y fersiwn ddwyieithog, mae’r golofn chwith yn cynnwys yr iaith a lefarwyd yn y cyfarfod. Mae’r golofn dde yn cynnwys cyfieithiad o’r areithiau hynny.
In the bilingual version, the left-hand column includes the language used during the meeting. The right-hand column includes a translation of those speeches.
Cyfarfu'r Senedd yn y Siambr a thrwy gynhadledd fideo am 13:30 gyda'r Llywydd (Elin Jones) yn y Gadair.
The Senedd met in the Chamber and by video-conference at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.
Prynhawn da a chroeso, bawb, i'r Cyfarfod Llawn. Cwestiynau i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Lywodraeth Leol, Tai a Chynllunio sydd gyntaf y prynhawn yma, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Joyce Watson.
Good afternoon and welcome to this Plenary meeting. Questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Housing, Local Government and Planning are first this afternoon, and the first question is from Joyce Watson.
1. Beth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i gefnogi canol trefi yng Nghanolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru? OQ61236
1. What is the Welsh Government doing to support town centres in Mid and West Wales? OQ61236
Thank you for the question, Joyce. The focus of our Transforming Towns programme is the regeneration of our town centres, making them better places in which to live and work. Since 2020, we have awarded more than £49 million of grant and loan funding to town-centre regeneration projects across Mid and West Wales.
Diolch am eich cwestiwn, Joyce. Ffocws ein rhaglen Trawsnewid Trefi yw adfywio canol ein trefi, gan eu gwneud yn lleoedd gwell i fyw a gweithio ynddynt. Ers 2020, rydym wedi dyfarnu mwy na £49 miliwn o gyllid grant a benthyciadau i brosiectau adfywio canol trefi ar draws Canolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru.
I thank you for that answer. I was particularly pleased to see the Transforming Towns grant being used to renovate two important historic market halls in my constituency of Mid and West Wales. Work with funds from this Welsh Government grant and European capital funding, and capital investment from Ceredigion County Council in the case of Cardigan market hall, have recently enabled the completion of restoration work in both Cardigan market hall and the Hen Farchnad, or the old market hall, in Llandeilo. Both these historic buildings were hugely important buildings in those particular town centres, and it's just fantastic to see them brought back into a good state of repair so that they can be utilised by businesses and communities alike. So, Cabinet Secretary, do you agree that the Transforming Towns grant demonstrates the Welsh Government's commitment to helping small businesses to thrive in our towns, but also to provide vital funds to regenerate those town centres?
Diolch am eich ateb. Roeddwn yn arbennig o falch o weld y grant Trawsnewid Trefi yn cael ei ddefnyddio i adnewyddu dwy neuadd farchnad hanesyddol bwysig yn fy etholaeth, Canolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru. Yn ddiweddar, mae gwaith gyda chyllid y grant hwn gan Lywodraeth Cymru a chyllid cyfalaf Ewropeaidd, a buddsoddiad cyfalaf gan Gyngor Sir Ceredigion yn achos neuadd farchnad Aberteifi, wedi ei gwneud hi'n bosibl cwblhau gwaith adfer yn neuadd farchnad Aberteifi a’r Hen Farchnad yn Llandeilo. Roedd y ddau adeilad hanesyddol yn adeiladau hynod bwysig yng nghanol y trefi hynny, ac mae'n wych eu gweld yn cael eu hadfer i gyflwr da fel y gall busnesau a chymunedau fel ei gilydd eu defnyddio. Felly, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, a ydych chi'n cytuno bod grant y Trawsnewid Trefi yn dangos ymrwymiad Llywodraeth Cymru i helpu busnesau bach i ffynnu yn ein trefi, a hefyd i ddarparu cyllid hanfodol i adfywio canol y trefi hynny?
Yes, thank you, Joyce, I very much agree with that. I've recently had the benefit of visiting both of those projects and they were absolutely great. The Llandeilo one is open. It's transformed what was the historic fire and rescue service, fire engine place—I don't know what you call that—garage—
Ie, diolch, Joyce, rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â hynny. Yn ddiweddar, cefais y fraint o ymweld â'r ddau brosiect, ac roeddent yn wych. Mae'r un yn Llandeilo ar agor. Mae wedi trawsnewid hen adeilad gwasanaeth tân ac achub hanesyddol, lle'r injan dân—nid wyf yn gwybod beth fyddech chi'n ei alw—garej—
Depot.
Depo.
Depot—thank you; very good. And it's really clever the way they've done it and the whole development is absolutely buzzing. I don't know if you've been, but I had an extremely pleasant coffee in the coffee shop there while we talked it through with some of the people who'd just visited. And they were saying how much the footfall for that is pouring into the town centre as well and really helping to bring the footfall up more generally. And the businesses were great there. And while we were there, there was a community event going on as well, which was great.
And then I was able to go and see the one in Cardigan. They were just on the cusp of opening, so I'm really hoping to go back this summer and see it open. And they were saying that they have a long list of people who are waiting to come back into Cardigan market who were there before, but who were looking forward to the refurbishment. They also have a long list of people looking to get in for the first time, and they've also been able to bring into active use some other disused and derelict shops in Cardigan, and so there's a bridal shop that's come there that is very up-market indeed. And they've all started as start-ups in the market.
And I thought the most impressive thing was the fact that they were using it as incubator space, so you could try out whether your project or idea worked, and if it did work, then you could move on into the town centre and take up a bigger space and leave the incubator space behind. It just had an absolute buzz. The one in Cardigan has the most beautiful stone arches as you go through—it's absolutely the most beautiful building. I don't know if the Llywydd knows it, but I was really impressed by the beauty of the building. And what was also nice is that it formed an accessible route—because it's quite steep, isn't it, Cardigan—so, you could park at the back there and you could go through, up disabled access and toilets and everything, into the town centre through the building, making a really lovely through-route past all of the new shops and buildings. So, it's very, very impressive. And it's a really good example of partnership working. So, the Welsh Government has worked really hard with both local authorities to have the match funding in place and to work with them to get the expertise to match up and so on, and in both places we also had community volunteers. I've forgotten the chap's name in Cardigan—he was so enthusiastic; he told me about the history of the building and everything. And it just shows how beloved these buildings are in their towns and the really galvanising effect it can have to renew them.
Depo—diolch; da iawn. Ac mae'r ffordd y maent wedi gwneud hynny'n glyfar iawn ac mae'r holl ddatblygiad yn fwrlwm i gyd. Nid wyf yn gwybod a ydych chi wedi bod yno, ond cefais goffi hyfryd dros ben yn y siop goffi yno wrth inni drafod gyda rhai o'r bobl a oedd newydd ymweld. Ac roeddent yn dweud cymaint o bobl sy'n llifo i ganol y dref i ymweld â'r lle hwnnw gan helpu i godi nifer yr ymwelwyr yn fwy cyffredinol. Ac roedd y busnesau'n wych yno. A thra oeddem yno, roedd digwyddiad cymunedol yn mynd rhagddo hefyd, a oedd yn wych.
Ac yna gallais fynd i weld yr un yn Aberteifi. Roeddent ar fin agor, felly rwy'n gobeithio mynd yn ôl yn yr haf i'w weld yn agor. Ac roeddent yn dweud bod ganddynt restr hir o bobl sy'n aros i ddod yn ôl i farchnad Aberteifi a oedd yn arfer bod yno, ond a oedd yn edrych ymlaen at y gwaith adnewyddu. Mae ganddynt hefyd restr hir o bobl sy'n gobeithio mynd yno am y tro cyntaf, ac maent hefyd wedi gallu dod â siopau gwag ac adfeiliedig eraill yn Aberteifi yn ôl i ddefnydd, ac felly mae siop dillad priodas wedi agor yno sy'n grand iawn wir. Ac mae pob un ohonynt wedi dechrau fel busnesau newydd yn y farchnad.
Ac roeddwn yn meddwl mai’r peth mwyaf trawiadol oedd y ffaith eu bod yn ei ddefnyddio fel man deori, felly gallech roi cynnig i weld a oedd eich prosiect neu syniad yn gweithio, ac os oedd yn gweithio, gallech symud ymlaen i ganol y dref a manteisio ar ofod mwy a gadael y man deori. Roedd y lle'n fwrlwm i gyd. Mae gan yr un yn Aberteifi fwâu maen gogoneddus wrth ichi fynd drwyddo—mae'r adeilad yn eithriadol o hardd. Nid wyf yn gwybod a yw'r Llywydd yn gyfarwydd â'r adeilad hwnnw, ond gwnaeth harddwch yr adeilad argraff fawr arnaf. Ac roedd hi hefyd yn braf ei fod yn darparu llwybr hygyrch—gan fod Aberteifi yn dref eithaf serth, onid ydyw—felly, gallech barcio yn y cefn yno a gallech fynd drwodd, drwy'r fynedfa i bobl anabl a thoiledau ac ati, i mewn i ardal canol y dref drwy'r adeilad, ar hyd llwybr hyfryd iawn heibio'r holl siopau ac adeiladau newydd. Felly, mae'n drawiadol iawn. Ac mae'n enghraifft wirioneddol dda o weithio mewn partneriaeth. Felly, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gweithio'n galed iawn gyda'r ddau awdurdod lleol i sicrhau bod arian cyfatebol ar gael ac i weithio gyda nhw i sicrhau bod yr arbenigedd priodol i'w gael ac ati, ac yn y ddau le, rydym wedi cael gwirfoddolwyr cymunedol hefyd. Rwyf wedi anghofio enw'r dyn yn Aberteifi—roedd mor frwdfrydig; dywedodd wrthyf am hanes yr adeilad a phopeth. Ac mae'n dangos pa mor hoff yw'r adeiladau hyn gan drigolion eu trefi a'r effaith wirioneddol gyffrous y gall eu hadnewyddu ei chael.
Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for you answer to my colleague. Now, Pembroke in my constituency is one of the finest examples of a medieval town—a fantastic castle, which is the birth place of Henry Tudor. And it's got the South Quay development happening there, which has had Welsh Government funding. And while the community are really excited to see once derelict buildings coming back to life—and I've raised this before in the Chamber—there is a little bit of concern as to what the end product of the South Quay development will become. I know that the town council have put forward a bit of a business case, which was shot down, and so there's a little bit of a frustration in the community as to what the South Quay development will become. So, when funding projects, can I ask what caveats does the Welsh Government have on that? What community engagement do they do to ensure that a project brought forward does have community buy-in and that the end product, a development such as the South Quay, is something that's needed within the locality, to revitalise our town centres?
Diolch am eich ateb i fy nghyd-Aelod, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Nawr, mae Penfro yn fy etholaeth yn un o'r enghreifftiau gorau o dref ganoloesol—castell gwych, sef man geni Harri Tudur. Ac mae datblygiad Cei'r De yno, sydd wedi cael cyllid gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Ac er bod y gymuned yn edrych ymlaen yn fawr at weld adeiladau a fu unwaith yn adfeiliedig yn dod yn ôl i ddefnydd—ac rwyf wedi codi hyn yn y Siambr o'r blaen—mae rhywfaint o bryder ynglŷn â beth fydd datblygiad Cei'r De yn y pen draw. Gwn fod cyngor y dref wedi cyflwyno achos busnes, a wrthodwyd, ac felly mae rhywfaint o rwystredigaeth yn y gymuned ynghylch beth fydd datblygiad Cei’r De yn y pen draw. Felly, wrth ariannu prosiectau, a gaf i ofyn pa amodau sydd gan Lywodraeth Cymru ar hynny? Pa ymgysylltu cymunedol a wneir ganddynt i sicrhau bod cefnogaeth gan y gymuned i brosiect a gyflwynir, a bod y cynnyrch terfynol, datblygiad fel Cei'r De, yn rhywbeth sydd ei angen yn yr ardal leol, i adfywio canol ein trefi?
So, these are very much partnerships between the local authority and the Welsh Government, and it's the local authority that brings forward the ideas. So, we provide the placemaking grants. We provide them both regionally and to individual councils. For the regional ones, which are smaller grants, we have a lead authority, but each authority has a say in what the regional spend looks like. One of the things that we've been trying to do—I'm not trying to make a political point here, actually—is we've been trying to make sure that the shared prosperity levelling-up funds jigsaw in, if you like, to that, so that we can have complementary investment. So, we've got quite good arrangements in place to make sure that they do jigsaw in, rather than stand alone. And so, the local authority puts forward the business case, and the Welsh Government completely relies on the local authority to do that. I don't have the details of that one, so I don't know what it's got in mind for it, and I haven't visited that one—it's probably the only one that I haven't visited, so I do plan to. So, the local authority will have done the business case, if you like, for it, and it will have come partly to the Welsh Government and partly to the regional forum to have a discussion about it. And as part of the business case, they will have consulted. I'm afraid I don't know the details of that specific one, but it's very much a process, a kind of team process, to bring them forward.
Obviously, the idea is that, sometimes, a quite big amount of money—it can be millions—and, sometimes, a relatively small amount of money, can bring regeneration and life, really, back to a derelict part of a town. And we're particularly interested in doing heritage projects, because they tend not to be affordable if they're commercially developed, because the land values are too small. And so, the placemaking grant in particular is looking at making affordable projects that bring heritage buildings back to life, where, otherwise, they wouldn't be commercially viable.
Mae'r rhain yn bartneriaethau rhwng yr awdurdod lleol a Llywodraeth Cymru, a'r awdurdod lleol sy'n cyflwyno'r syniadau. Felly, ni sy'n darparu’r grantiau creu lleoedd. Rydym yn eu darparu yn rhanbarthol ac i gynghorau unigol. Ar gyfer y rhai rhanbarthol, sy’n grantiau llai, mae gennym awdurdod arweiniol, ond mae gan bob awdurdod lais ynglŷn â sut olwg sydd ar y gwariant rhanbarthol. Un o'r pethau rydym wedi bod yn ceisio eu gwneud—nid wyf yn ceisio gwneud pwynt gwleidyddol yma—yw ceisio sicrhau bod y gronfa ffyniant bro a'r gronfa ffyniant gyffredin yn cyd-blethu, os mynnwch, fel y gallwn gael buddsoddiad ategol. Felly, mae gennym drefniadau eithaf da ar waith i sicrhau eu bod yn cyd-blethu, yn hytrach na'n sefyll ar eu pen eu hunain. Ac felly, yr awdurdod lleol sy’n cyflwyno’r achos busnes, ac mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn dibynnu’n llwyr ar yr awdurdod lleol i wneud hynny. Nid oes gennyf fanylion ynghylch hwnnw, felly nid wyf yn gwybod beth sydd ganddo mewn golwg ar ei gyfer, ac nid wyf wedi ymweld â'r un hwnnw—mae'n debyg mai dyna'r unig un nad wyf wedi ymweld ag ef, felly rwy'n bwriadu gwneud hynny. Felly, bydd yr awdurdod lleol wedi gwneud yr achos busnes ar ei gyfer, a bydd wedi dod yn rhannol i Lywodraeth Cymru ac yn rhannol i’r fforwm rhanbarthol i gael trafodaeth yn ei gylch. Ac fel rhan o'r achos busnes, byddant wedi ymgynghori. Mae arnaf ofn nad wyf yn ymwybodol o fanylion yr un penodol hwnnw, ond mae'n broses, yn fath o broses tîm, i'w cyflwyno.
Yn amlwg, y syniad yw, weithiau, gall swm eithaf mawr o arian—gall fod yn filiynau—ac weithiau, swm cymharol fach o arian, adfywio a dod â bywyd yn ôl i ran adfeiliedig o dref. Ac mae gennym ddiddordeb arbennig mewn gwneud prosiectau treftadaeth, am nad ydynt yn tueddu i fod yn fforddiadwy os cânt eu datblygu'n fasnachol, gan fod gwerthoedd tir yn rhy fach. Ac felly, mae'r grant creu lleoedd yn enwedig yn edrych ar wneud prosiectau fforddiadwy sy'n dod ag adeiladau treftadaeth yn ôl yn fyw, lle na fyddent, fel arall, yn fasnachol hyfyw.
Diolch i Joyce Watson am y cwestiwn. Fel rŷn ni i gyd yn gwybod, mae'n trefi cefn gwlad ni, trefi ar draws Cymru, wedi dioddef yn arw iawn, iawn oherwydd Brexit—
I'd like to thank Joyce Watson for the question. As we all know, our rural towns, towns across Wales, have suffered a great deal as a result of Brexit—
Os gallwn ni oedi am eiliad, i wneud yn siŵr bod y cyfieithu'n gweithio.
If we can just pause for a second, to ensure that the interpretation is working.
Sorry, I was on the wrong channel.
Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, roeddwn ar y sianel anghywir.
Iawn. Os gallwch chi ddechrau eto, Cefin Campbell.
Okay. If you could start again, Cefin Campbell.
Ocê. Fel rŷn ni i gyd yn gwybod, mae'n trefi marchnad ni ar draws Cymru gyfan wedi dioddef yn arw iawn, iawn oherwydd Brexit, COVID, a'r argyfwng costau byw diweddar. Nawr, un model sy'n cael ei weithredu yw'r un gan Gyngor Sir Gâr, sef cynllun o'r enw Deg Tref, yn canolbwyntio ar 10 o drefi marchnad, gan gynnwys, fel roedd Joyce Watson yn cyfeirio ato, Llandeilo, a llefydd fel Llanybydder, Castellnewydd Emlyn, Sanclêr, ac yn y blaen. Ac mae yna arian Trawsnewid Trefi wedi cael ei ddefnyddio i bwrpas da, fel yr Hen Farchnad yn Llandeilo. Ond mae e hefyd wedi mynd y tu hwnt i hynny drwy gynnig arian i fusnesau bach i wella eu darpariaeth a hefyd i weddnewid adeiladau, i wneud y trefi yma'n fwy deniadol i dwristiaid ac i ymwelwyr. Felly, gaf i ofyn i chi ydych chi'n ymwybodol o'r cynllun Deg Tref yng Nghyngor Sir Gâr, ac ydych chi'n credu bod y model hwn o dargedu trefi yn rhywbeth y gallai gael ei efelychu gan awdurdodau lleol eraill ar draws Cymru?
Okay. As we all know, our market towns across the whole of Wales have suffered a great deal as a result of Brexit, COVID, and the cost-of-living crisis recently. Now, one model that's being implemented is one by Carmarthenshire County Council, which is a scheme called Deg Tref, Ten Towns, focusing on 10 market towns, including, as Joyce Watson mentioned, Llandeilo, and places like Llanybydder, Newcastle Emlyn, St Clears, and so on. And Transforming Towns funds have been used to good end, such as the old market in Llandeilo, as we've heard. But it's also gone beyond that by providing funding to small businesses to improve their provision and also to transform buildings, to make these towns more attractive to tourists and visitors. So, could I ask if you are aware of the Carmarthenshire County Council Ten Towns programme, and do you think that this model of targeting towns is something that could be emulated by other local authorities across Wales?
Thank you, Cefin. Sorry for not having that sorted out fast enough and making you repeat yourself. I am aware of it, yes. It very much follows the pattern of 'Future Wales: The National Plan 2040', the spatial plan for Wales, where we've been very keen to make sure that every town in Wales does not think it can do everything, and that we can target specific things at specific towns. So, we have a 'town centre first' policy, which means that we're trying to stop out-of-town spread, but it doesn't mean that every single regional town in Wales is going to be able to have the same offering. And actually, we know that the Ten Towns kind of strategy, where what you're doing is looking to see that you've got a hole in a particular area, and you can have specialisms, if you like, or particular offerings, in particular towns, really works. I don't think any of us like identikit towns, where you turn up and the high street looks exactly the same in every one. That doesn't really work, and it's a model that's really fading now as retail trends change. What really does work is the kinds of towns that you do get in—. I'm very fond of Carmarthen itself, actually, and the way that it's clustered around the market there, and the centre is lovely. But it's because it's unique, isn't it? You go there because it's a unique experience, and you get a completely different set of shops there than if you go to Cardigan, for example. It feels different. It's a nice experience, so it very much does work, and I very much commend the council on its strategy. It is one that we have been pushing through 'Future Wales' as well, and I think it's one where people can take a real pride in the individuality of their particular village or town or city, whichever it may be.
Diolch yn fawr, Cefin. Mae'n ddrwg gennyf am beidio â datrys hynny'n ddigon cyflym a gwneud ichi ailadrodd eich hun. Rwy’n ymwybodol ohono, ydw. Mae'n dilyn patrwm 'Cymru’r Dyfodol: y Cynllun Cenedlaethol 2040', y cynllun gofodol ar gyfer Cymru, lle rydym wedi bod yn awyddus iawn i sicrhau nad yw pob tref yng Nghymru yn meddwl y gall wneud popeth, ac y gallwn dargedu pethau penodol at drefi penodol. Felly, mae gennym bolisi 'canol trefi yn gyntaf', sy'n golygu ein bod yn ceisio atal lledaeniad y tu allan i'r dref, ond nid yw'n golygu y bydd pob tref ranbarthol yng Nghymru yn gallu cael yr un cynnig. Ac mewn gwirionedd, fe wyddom fod strategaeth fel Deg Tref, lle rydych chi'n edrych am fylchau mewn ardal benodol, a gallwch gael arbenigeddau, os mynnwch, neu gynigion penodol, mewn trefi penodol, yn gweithio go iawn. Ni chredaf fod unrhyw un ohonom yn hoffi trefi unffurf, lle rydych chi'n mynd yno ac mae'r stryd fawr yn edrych yn union yr un fath ym mhob un. Nid yw hynny'n gweithio, ac mae'n fodel sy'n diflannu bellach wrth i dueddiadau manwerthu newid. Yr hyn sy'n gweithio'n dda yw'r mathau o drefi a gewch—. Rwy'n hoff iawn o Gaerfyrddin ei hun, a dweud y gwir, a'r ffordd y mae wedi'i chlystyru o amgylch y farchnad yno, ac mae'r canol yn hyfryd. Ond mae'n hyfryd am ei bod yn unigryw. Rydych chi'n mynd yno am ei fod yn brofiad unigryw ac rydych chi'n cael set hollol wahanol o siopau yno na phe baech chi'n mynd i Aberteifi, er enghraifft. Mae'n teimlo'n wahanol. Mae’n brofiad braf, felly mae’n gweithio’n dda, ac rwy’n canmol y cyngor yn fawr iawn ar ei strategaeth. Mae’n strategaeth y buom yn ei hybu drwy Cymru’r Dyfodol hefyd, a chredaf ei bod yn un lle gall pobl ymfalchïo yn unigoliaeth eu pentref neu dref neu ddinas, beth bynnag y bo.
2. Pa gynlluniau sydd gan Lywodraeth Cymru i ddefnyddio cyfraith gynllunio i gryfhau mesurau i ddiogelu adeiladau hanesyddol? OQ61246
2. What plans does the Welsh Government have to use planning law to strengthen the protection of historic buildings? OQ61246
Thank you for the question, Jenny. The current legislation, including the Historic Environment (Wales) Act 2023, and planning policy, which includes 'Future Wales: The National Plan 2040', 'Planning Policy Wales' and technical advice note, or TAN 24, on the historic environment, together provide a robust framework to ensure the protection, conservation and enhancement of historic buildings and the broader historic environment.
Diolch am eich cwestiwn, Jenny. Mae’r ddeddfwriaeth bresennol, gan gynnwys Deddf yr Amgylchedd Hanesyddol (Cymru) 2023, a pholisi cynllunio, sy’n cynnwys ‘Cymru’r Dyfodol: y Cynllun Cenedlaethol 2040’, ‘Polisi Cynllunio Cymru’ a nodyn cyngor technegol, neu TAN 24, ar yr amgylchedd hanesyddol, gyda’i gilydd yn darparu fframwaith cadarn i sicrhau bod adeiladau hanesyddol a'r amgylchedd hanesyddol ehangach yn cael eu gwarchod, eu cadw a'u gwella.
Well, I'm interested to hear that you say that this is a robust planning framework, because several issues have arisen in my constituency that indicate that planning law has yet to be really on the right side of preserving historic buildings. So, the Vulcan pub had to be shipped off to St Fagans museum to be lovingly restored there, and the historic Roath Park pub on City Road—a very fine facade—had been slated for demolition several times over the last decade, even though its three-storey structure would have made it quite suitable for converting into flats. It's taken a monumental effort by local councillors to energise the local community, draw up petitions, force plans to be changed, and, thanks to those efforts, the pub facade, which dates back to 1886, will be saved. I'm not sure if you'd even describe them as success stories, but at least something is being restored. Across Wales, our historic vernacular is falling down in front of our eyes in many cases, because barns that were previously used, or houses for landworkers, are abandoned, and local people find it very difficult to use the planning law to protect these historic buildings—
Wel, mae'n ddiddorol eich clywed yn dweud bod hwn yn fframwaith cynllunio cadarn, gan fod sawl mater wedi codi yn fy etholaeth i, sy'n dynodi nad yw cyfraith cynllunio wedi bod ar yr ochr iawn o ran cadw adeiladau hanesyddol. Felly, bu’n rhaid cludo tafarn y Vulcan i amgueddfa Sain Ffagan i gael ei hadnewyddu’n gariadus yno, ac mae sawl cynllun wedi bod i ddymchwel tafarn hanesyddol Roath Park ar Heol y Ddinas—ffasâd hardd iawn—dros y degawd diwethaf, er y byddai'r adeilad tri llawr wedi bod yn addas iawn i'w drawsnewid yn fflatiau. Mae wedi cymryd ymdrech aruthrol gan gynghorwyr lleol i fywiogi’r gymuned leol, llunio deisebau, gorfodi cynlluniau i gael eu newid, a diolch i’r ymdrechion hynny, bydd ffasâd y dafarn, sy’n dyddio’n ôl i 1886, yn cael ei achub. Nid wyf yn siŵr a fyddech chi hyd yn oed yn eu disgrifio fel enghreifftiau o lwyddiant, ond o leiaf mae rhywbeth yn cael ei adfer. Ledled Cymru, mae ein hadeiladau hanesyddol yn dadfeilio o flaen ein llygaid mewn llawer o achosion, gan fod ysguboriau a arferai gael eu defnyddio, neu dai ar gyfer gweithwyr tir, yn wag, ac mae pobl leol yn ei chael hi'n anodd iawn defnyddio’r gyfraith gynllunio i warchod yr adeiladau hanesyddol hyn—
I'll need a question now, Jenny.
Bydd angen cwestiwn arnaf nawr, Jenny.
—yes, okay—without the innovation required to adapt them to modern needs. So, how could the planning system become more dynamic to protect our buildings' heritage, whilst also making them fit for the future?
—iawn, o'r gorau—heb yr arloesi sydd ei angen i'w haddasu i anghenion modern. Felly, sut y gallai’r system gynllunio ddod yn fwy dynamig i warchod treftadaeth ein hadeiladau, gan eu gwneud yn addas at y dyfodol ar yr un pryd?
Thank you, Jenny. So, there are some complexities around who has the responsibility to list what. So, the decision to list a building is, obviously, based on the special architectural or historic interest of the building, which is obvious. Where it's not listed, you can request a spot listing, but that does need to draw attention to new evidence that may not have been available previously, or explain why it's been overlooked in the past. But, again, that's not a terribly high hurdle—we all know of spot-listed buildings. And then buildings are added to the list, either as a result of a survey of a particular area or building type, or following a request from local authorities, societies, other bodies or individuals, or, indeed, just community groups, and I'm aware of several of those that have happened.
Cadw does it at the national level, but the identification and protection of locally important buildings at the local level is done by the local authorities in fact, not by the Welsh Government, through Cadw. And, although there are lots of buildings that don't meet the threshold for national importance, exactly as you say, there are lots of buildings that meet the threshold for local importance—they're particularly beloved in the local area or they have a particular historic significance in a very local area, and the local authority can list them on that basis. Cardiff Council, which, obviously, covers the area that you're talking about, does have a list of important buildings. It does maintain that list, and I understand it's currently reviewing the list. Councils also have what's called an 'article 4 direction'. So, that's the ability to make sure that you have to have full planning consent in order to do anything to particular listed buildings that they maintain on the list. So, they do have quite extensive powers. I suspect what you're talking about there is how you would make sure the council exercises those powers, and I think that is a combination of making sure that the local councillors are aware. I do periodically write out to local authorities reminding them that they have these powers. And the Deputy Minister for culture, Dawn Bowden, in her previous job, actually, wrote out to all the councils reminding them that they had the powers to do this. I can't comment on the Roath Park one, because that's an ongoing active planning application, so I can't comment on the specifics of that. But I do know that Cardiff has an active list and it is currently reviewing it. So, perhaps, now is a very good time to make sure that anything you want preserved is actually on that list.
And then, just to say, on the last point, it is in the council's gift not to allow a developer to demolish a building until they have specific planning consent and a contract let for the new build that goes with it. Because I do think you often get the case in local authorities that the demolition happens before the rest of it. So, I'm very happy to remind local authorities that they have the power to phase that in, so that you can give the most protection to facades and so on, because, if they're left standing unsupported for many years, they can become difficult to use. If you want to drop me a line, I'm very happy to write out to councils reminding them that there are powers to be able to do things in that space.
Diolch, Jenny. Felly, mae yna rai cymhlethdodau ynghylch pwy sy'n gyfrifol am restru beth. Felly, mae’r penderfyniad i restru adeilad yn amlwg yn seiliedig ar ddiddordeb pensaernïol neu hanesyddol arbennig yr adeilad, sy’n amlwg. Lle nad yw wedi'i restru, gallwch ofyn am ei restru yn y fan a'r lle, ond mae angen i hynny nodi tystiolaeth newydd nad oedd ar gael yn flaenorol o bosibl, neu esbonio pam y cafodd ei anwybyddu yn y gorffennol. Ond unwaith eto, nid yw hynny'n rhwystr ofnadwy o fawr—gŵyr pob un ohonom am adeiladau sydd wedi eu rhestru yn y fan a'r lle. Ac wedyn, mae adeiladau’n cael eu hychwanegu at y rhestr, naill ai o ganlyniad i arolwg o ardal benodol neu fath arbennig o adeilad, neu'n dilyn cais gan awdurdodau lleol, cymdeithasau, cyrff neu unigolion eraill, neu grwpiau cymunedol yn wir, ac rwy’n ymwybodol o sawl achos o hynny.
Cadw sy'n gwneud hyn ar lefel genedlaethol, ond yr awdurdodau lleol, nid Llywodraeth Cymru drwy Cadw, sy’n nodi ac yn diogelu adeiladau o bwysigrwydd lleol. Ac er bod llawer o adeiladau nad ydynt yn cyrraedd y trothwy ar gyfer pwysigrwydd cenedlaethol, yn union fel y dywedwch, mae llawer o adeiladau yn cyrraedd y trothwy ar gyfer pwysigrwydd lleol—maent yn arbennig o hoff gan drigolion yr ardal leol, neu mae ganddynt arwyddocâd hanesyddol arbennig mewn ardal leol iawn, a gall yr awdurdod lleol eu rhestru ar y sail honno. Mae gan Gyngor Caerdydd, sy'n amlwg yn gyfrifol am yr ardal y soniwch amdani, restr o adeiladau pwysig. Mae'n cadw'r rhestr honno, a deallaf ei fod yn adolygu'r rhestr ar hyn o bryd. Mae gan gynghorau hefyd yr hyn a elwir yn 'gyfarwyddyd erthygl 4'. Felly, golyga hynny y gallu i sicrhau bod yn rhaid ichi gael caniatâd cynllunio llawn er mwyn gwneud unrhyw beth i adeiladau rhestredig penodol a gedwir ganddynt ar y rhestr. Felly, mae ganddynt bwerau eithaf helaeth. Rwy'n tybio mai'r hyn rydych chi'n sôn amdano yw sut y byddech chi'n sicrhau bod y cyngor yn arfer y pwerau hynny, a chredaf fod hynny'n gyfuniad o sicrhau bod y cynghorwyr lleol yn ymwybodol. Rwy'n ysgrifennu at awdurdodau lleol o bryd i'w gilydd i'w hatgoffa bod ganddynt y pwerau hyn. Ac ysgrifennodd y Dirprwy Weinidog diwylliant, Dawn Bowden, yn ei swydd flaenorol at yr holl gynghorau i'w hatgoffa bod ganddynt y pwerau i wneud hyn. Ni allaf wneud sylw ar dafarn Roath Park am ei fod yn gais cynllunio gweithredol sydd ar y gweill, felly ni allaf wneud sylw ar fanylion hynny. Ond gwn fod gan Gaerdydd restr weithredol a'u bod yn ei hadolygu ar hyn o bryd. Felly, efallai fod nawr yn amser da iawn i sicrhau bod unrhyw beth rydych am iddo gael ei gadw wedi'i nodi ar y rhestr honno.
Ac yna, ar y pwynt olaf, penderfyniad i'r cyngor yw peidio â chaniatáu i ddatblygwr ddymchwel adeilad hyd nes bod ganddynt ganiatâd cynllunio penodol a chontract wedi'i osod ar gyfer yr adeilad newydd sy'n cyd-fynd ag ef. Oherwydd yn aml, mewn awdurdodau lleol, credaf fod y gwaith dymchwel yn digwydd cyn y gweddill. Felly, rwy'n fwy na pharod i atgoffa awdurdodau lleol fod ganddynt bŵer i gyflwyno hynny fesul cam, fel y gallwch roi'r amddiffyniad mwyaf i ffasadau ac ati, oherwydd, os cânt eu gadael i sefyll heb eu cynnal am flynyddoedd lawer, gallant ddod yn anodd eu defnyddio. Os hoffech gysylltu â mi, rwy'n fwy na pharod i ysgrifennu at gynghorau i'w hatgoffa bod pwerau ar gael i allu gwneud pethau yn y cyswllt hwnnw.
Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Peter Fox.
Questions now from the party spokespeople. Conservative spokesperson, Peter Fox.
Diolch, Llywydd. It's good to be able to ask you questions, Cabinet Secretary. We've worked together in a different role, when I was a leader, and so it's nice to interact on that same subject. Cabinet Secretary, I know you would agree that good local government provided services are absolutely essential in many ways, and certainly key to helping things, such as reducing demand on the NHS, for example. However, due to reducing resources, local authorities have had to make difficult decisions that erode the opportunity for services, such as leisure and social care, to be able to respond to that bigger picture. Cabinet Secretary, can the local government family have confidence that you will make the case for their services to your fellow Cabinet colleagues, recognising that they could play a key role in helping to address issues faced in areas, such as health?
Diolch, Lywydd. Mae’n dda gallu gofyn cwestiynau i chi, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Rydym wedi gweithio gyda'n gilydd mewn rôl wahanol, pan oeddwn yn arweinydd, ac felly mae'n braf rhyngweithio ar yr un pwnc. Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, gwn y byddech yn cytuno bod gwasanaethau da a ddarperir gan lywodraeth leol yn gwbl hanfodol mewn sawl ffordd, ac yn sicr yn allweddol i helpu pethau, megis lleihau’r galw ar y GIG, er enghraifft. Fodd bynnag, wrth i'w hadnoddau leihau, mae awdurdodau lleol wedi gorfod gwneud penderfyniadau anodd sy’n erydu’r cyfle i wasanaethau, megis hamdden a gofal cymdeithasol, allu ymateb i’r darlun ehangach hwnnw. Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, a all y teulu llywodraeth leol fod yn hyderus y byddwch yn dadlau'r achos dros eu gwasanaethau i’ch cyd-Aelodau yn y Cabinet, gan gydnabod y gallent chwarae rhan allweddol wrth helpu i fynd i’r afael â phroblemau a wynebir mewn rhai meysydd, megis iechyd?
Thank you for that question, Peter. I mean, I completely agree with that, and I know you know that, because we worked very closely, as you say, during the COVID pandemic, when you were leader of Monmouthshire County Council and I was the local government Minister. You'll know that I am deeply committed to local government and its ability to assist with a range of problems, because the solutions often are in the fundamentals. I mean, there's no doubt that councils have faced serious austerity measures. But, even inside that, there are things that can be done. We work very closely with the local authorities to make sure that we understand the specific pressures.
I do think one of the most important things that we have been pushing for for some time, and I want to continue to push for, is the multi-annual settlement, because, for the last few years, we've had single-year settlements, because the Welsh Government has had single-year settlements. And I think one of the problems there is you cannot plan out for the future in a way that means that non-statutory services, which are nevertheless essential, like leisure services—youth services are another one—it's very hard for the council to plan in expenditure on those non-statutory services, where there isn't a multi-annual settlement. So, I have been pushing very hard to have a multi-annual settlement put in place. It's very difficult when we don't have one. But we are very hopeful that we'll be able to persuade whoever the incoming Government is that multi-annual settlements are the way forward, and that allows proper planning and budgeting in the public sector space.
Diolch am eich cwestiwn, Peter. Rwy’n cytuno’n llwyr â hynny, a gwn eich bod yn gwybod hynny, gan inni weithio gyda'n gilydd yn agos iawn, fel y dywedwch, yn ystod y pandemig COVID, pan oeddech chi'n arweinydd Cyngor Sir Fynwy a minnau’n Weinidog llywodraeth leol. Fe fyddwch yn gwybod fy mod wedi ymrwymo’n llwyr i lywodraeth leol a’i gallu i gynorthwyo gydag ystod o broblemau, gan fod yr atebion yn aml yn yr hanfodion. Hynny yw, nid oes unrhyw amheuaeth fod cynghorau wedi wynebu mesurau cyni difrifol. Ond hyd yn oed yn y cyd-destun hwnnw, mae pethau y gellir eu gwneud. Rydym yn gweithio’n agos iawn gyda’r awdurdodau lleol i sicrhau ein bod yn deall y pwysau penodol.
Credaf mai un o’r pethau pwysicaf y buom yn gwthio amdanynt ers peth amser, ac rwy'n awyddus i barhau i wthio amdano, yw’r setliad amlflwydd, oherwydd, am yr ychydig flynyddoedd diwethaf, rydym wedi cael setliadau un flwyddyn, am fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cael setliadau un flwyddyn. A chredaf mai un o'r problemau yn hynny o beth yw na allwch gynllunio ar gyfer y dyfodol mewn ffordd sy'n golygu bod gwasanaethau anstatudol, sy'n hanfodol serch hynny, fel gwasanaethau hamdden—mae gwasanaethau ieuenctid yn un arall—mae'n anodd iawn i'r cyngor gynllunio eu gwariant ar y gwasanaethau anstatudol hynny, pan nad oes setliad amlflwydd. Felly, rwyf wedi bod yn gwthio’n galed iawn i sicrhau setliad amlflwydd. Mae'n anodd iawn pan nad oes gennym un. Ond rydym yn obeithiol iawn y gallwn berswadio pwy bynnag fydd y Llywodraeth newydd mai setliadau amlflwydd yw’r ffordd ymlaen, ac mae hynny’n caniatáu cynllunio a chyllidebu priodol yn y sector cyhoeddus.
Thank you for that, Cabinet Secretary. And I agree with that. I understand what councils are up against. We know, though, that the settlement we've had here in Wales has probably been the largest we've had ever. However, we know that local government did have a real-terms cut this last budget, even though they recognise that they need £600 million of additional revenue. Now, I know that that money isn't available, but comprehension of the implications of underinvestment need to be understood by everyone. Many key services, as you know, are on a knife edge, such as social care, where there is a huge amount of weekly unmet need across the country; education, where schools are struggling to retain the staff they need; and we know that many discretionary services are being hit hard and are facing a cliff edge. Cabinet Secretary, what advice would you give to council leaders who are concerned about the future? Where should they really be focusing their axe?
Diolch am hynny, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Ac rwy'n cytuno â hynny. Rwy’n deall yr hyn sy'n wynebu'r cynghorau. Fe wyddom, serch hynny, mai'r setliad a gawsom yma yng Nghymru yw'r mwyaf a gawsom erioed yn ôl pob tebyg. Fodd bynnag, fe wyddom fod llywodraeth leol wedi cael toriad mewn termau real yn y gyllideb ddiwethaf hon, er eu bod yn cydnabod bod angen £600 miliwn o refeniw ychwanegol arnynt. Nawr, gwn nad yw'r arian hwnnw ar gael, ond mae angen i bawb ddeall goblygiadau tanfuddsoddi. Mae llawer o wasanaethau allweddol yn y fantol fel y gwyddoch, megis gofal cymdeithasol, lle mae llawer iawn o angen heb ei ddiwallu yn wythnosol ledled y wlad; addysg, lle mae ysgolion yn ei chael hi'n anodd cadw'r staff sydd eu hangen arnynt; a gwyddom fod llawer o wasanaethau disgresiynol yn cael eu taro’n galed ac ar ymyl y dibyn. Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, pa gyngor y byddech yn ei roi i arweinwyr cynghorau sy’n pryderu am y dyfodol? Ble dylent fod yn canolbwyntio eu bwyell mewn gwirionedd?
So, I've embarked on a sort of traditional tour of a new local government Minister around the local authorities. I met with nearly all of the local authorities in north Wales last week; I wasn't able to manage to set up a meeting with one of them. I also meet—you'll remember this from your time, Peter—with the political groups. So, this morning, I met with the independent group leaders and we discussed a range of issues that they have. I have a regular scheduled meeting with the group leaders, and then I have a fortnightly meeting, exactly as we did with COVID—I've reconstituted it—where the leaders and chief executives will come together and we'll address specific issues that have been raised in the individual and group meetings to see if we can find mutually beneficial solutions to some of the problems.
So, to give you an example, it is very difficult to recruit social care workers at the moment. We have a little bit of a problem of local authorities competing with each other, so each of them offering a supplement in a given area, very great for the individual social care worker because they can move around and increase their salary, but not so great for the service because it brings churn and uncertainty. So, working with them to make sure that we have a unified pay structure, that we have an understanding of what that regional service needs to look like, and how we can make the best use of a scarce resource is just one of the things that we're doing.
There are a number of professions across Wales that are in short supply. With my previous hat on as climate change Minister, I know that there is a real shortage of flood engineers across Wales. I've been talking with regional groupings of local authorities about how we could share out the expertise that's there. And just to give the example—I know you're familiar with this—so, minerals planning, for example, is a speciality, and it's done by two authorities, Flintshire in the north and Carmarthenshire in the south. Everyone gets their advice from there, so that we aren't fishing in the same pool, we're not driving a resource shortage. Because, actually, that is a speciality that everybody needs now and again, but nobody needs all the time. So, there are some solutions that can be put in place. They are about co-operation and teamwork, as you know.
Rwyf wedi cychwyn ar ryw fath o daith draddodiadol i Weinidog llywodraeth leol newydd o gwmpas yr awdurdodau lleol. Cyfarfûm â bron i bob un o’r awdurdodau lleol yng ngogledd Cymru yr wythnos diwethaf; ni lwyddais i drefnu cyfarfod ag un ohonynt. Rwyf hefyd yn cyfarfod—fe fyddwch yn cofio hyn o'ch amser chi fel arweinydd, Peter—â'r grwpiau gwleidyddol. Felly, y bore yma, cyfarfûm ag arweinwyr y grwpiau annibynnol a buom yn trafod ystod o faterion. Mae gennyf gyfarfod rheolaidd wedi'i drefnu gydag arweinwyr y grwpiau, ac yna mae gennyf gyfarfod bob pythefnos, yn union fel y gwnaethom gyda COVID—rwyf wedi ei ailgyfansoddi—lle bydd yr arweinwyr a'r prif weithredwyr yn dod ynghyd a byddwn yn mynd i'r afael â materion penodol sydd wedi'u codi yn y cyfarfodydd unigol a'r cyfarfodydd grŵp i weld a allwn ddod o hyd i atebion i rai o’r problemau sydd o fudd i bawb.
Felly, i roi enghraifft i chi, mae’n anodd iawn recriwtio gweithwyr gofal cymdeithasol ar hyn o bryd. Mae gennym broblem lle mae awdurdodau lleol yn cystadlu â’i gilydd, gyda phob un ohonynt yn cynnig tâl atodol mewn maes penodol, sy'n wych iawn i’r gweithiwr gofal cymdeithasol unigol gan y gallant symud o gwmpas a chynyddu eu cyflog, ond nid yw mor wych i'r gwasanaeth, am ei fod yn arwain at newid staff ac ansicrwydd. Felly, mae gweithio gyda nhw i sicrhau bod gennym strwythur tâl unedig, fod gennym ddealltwriaeth o sut olwg a ddylai fod ar y gwasanaeth rhanbarthol hwnnw, a sut y gallwn wneud y defnydd gorau o adnoddau prin yn un o’r pethau a wnawn.
Mae nifer o broffesiynau ledled Cymru yn brin o staff. O fy nghyfnod fel Gweinidog newid hinsawdd, gwn fod prinder gwirioneddol o beirianwyr llifogydd ledled Cymru. Rwyf wedi bod yn siarad â grwpiau rhanbarthol o awdurdodau lleol ynglŷn â sut y gallem rannu'r arbenigedd sydd yno. Er enghraifft—gwn eich bod yn gyfarwydd â hyn—mae cynllunio mwynau, er enghraifft, yn arbenigedd, ac fe'i gwneir gan ddau awdurdod, sef sir y Fflint yn y gogledd a sir Gaerfyrddin yn y de. Mae pawb yn cael eu cyngor ganddynt, fel nad ydym yn pysgota yn yr un pwll, nid ydym yn achosi prinder adnoddau. Oherwydd, mewn gwirionedd, mae hwnnw'n arbenigedd sydd ei angen ar bawb o bryd i'w gilydd, ond nid oes unrhyw un ei angen drwy'r amser. Felly, mae rhai atebion y gellir eu rhoi ar waith. Maent yn ymwneud â chydweithio a gwaith tîm, fel y gwyddoch.
Thank you for that. I'm carrying on with this theme a bit because it's really important, I think, that local government is seen as a fundamental player in driving lots of things. I sadly feel that, sometimes in this place, local government isn't considered enough and perhaps comes as an afterthought, where it should be fundamental to driving lots of that change.
I'm sure you would agree with me that there needs to be that holistic, joined-up approach to the Welsh public service. The portfolio approach doesn't facilitate a sustainable future for local government, as the sector is often the casualty of Government's pursuit of other priorities.
So, Cabinet Secretary, will you consider facilitating perhaps a local government summit—I know you're meeting with individuals—to lay the foundations for a sustainable future for our councils and the services they provide? Services that we know are so fundamentally important to society as a whole. I know the WLGA have done things like that before, but I think we're at a time when we're under such significant pressure, as we are, recognising that the councils are struggling and they can play such a fundamental part in that bigger, holistic picture, I think it would go some way in laying the foundations and raising the recognition of the service area.
Diolch am hynny. Rwyf am barhau â'r thema hon gan y credaf ei bod yn bwysig iawn fod llywodraeth leol yn cael ei hystyried yn chwaraewr hollbwysig wrth ysgogi llawer o bethau. Yn anffodus, yn y lle hwn, teimlaf weithiau na roddir digon o ystyriaeth i lywodraeth leol ac efallai ei bod yn ôl-ystyriaeth, lle dylai fod yn hollbwysig wrth ysgogi llawer o’r newid hwnnw.
Rwy'n siŵr y byddech yn cytuno â mi fod angen dull cyfannol, cydgysylltiedig o ymdrin â gwasanaethau cyhoeddus Cymru. Nid yw'r dull portffolio yn hwyluso dyfodol cynaliadwy i lywodraeth leol, gan mai'r sector yn aml sy'n dioddef wrth i'r Llywodraeth fynd ar drywydd blaenoriaethau eraill.
Felly, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, a wnewch chi ystyried hwyluso uwchgynhadledd llywodraeth leol efallai—gwn eich bod yn cyfarfod ag unigolion—i osod y sylfeini ar gyfer dyfodol cynaliadwy i'n cynghorau a'r gwasanaethau y maent yn eu darparu? Gwasanaethau y gwyddom eu bod mor hanfodol bwysig i'r gymdeithas gyfan. Gwn fod CLlLC wedi gwneud pethau felly o’r blaen, ond credaf ein bod mewn cyfnod lle rydym o dan bwysau mor sylweddol, byddai cydnabod bod y cynghorau’n ei chael hi’n anodd ac y gallant chwarae rhan mor hollbwysig yn y darlun ehangach, cyfannol, yn mynd yn bell i osod y sylfeini a sicrhau mwy o gydnabyddiaeth i’r maes gwasanaeth.
Yes. I'm not sure we'd call it a summit, but we've got something very similar going on. Again, I'm following a pattern that I had when I was last in this seat, really. I think, since you've got elected to this place, Peter, things have slightly changed. The partnership council now has every leader and every chief executive invited to it—I think there was a sub-set when you were leader—and we do that on purpose, so that we can do exactly as you've just said. We also invite partner organisations to those, so we can make sure that we have a conversation that includes health, for example, or includes other partner organisations.
I also have ministerial responsibility for Academi Wales, and we've been pushing the one public service point. That sounds so simple, doesn't it? But, actually, it turns out to be very complicated. Even to move staff between local authorities on secondment is complicated. Moving them between the Welsh Government and local authorities is incredibly complicated because the pension schemes are different and all the rest of it. Nevertheless, we're determined to make it happen. So, one of the themes in the Academi Wales leadership summit this summer is one Welsh public service, with a view to doing exactly that, to make sure that colleagues in health and in Welsh Government and in local government work together as a seamless whole. Because, as you rightly said, local government is the good, solid foundation, if you like, for most of the rest of the services.
And I also have been asking colleagues right across the Welsh Government to make sure that they come through my office, when they're asking things of local government, so that we can keep an eye on the totality of the ask from Welsh Government on local authorities, and not do it, as you say, in portfolio silos, so that we can look to see how that goes across the piece. So, I think the idea that you've put forward is something I'm very interested in. I don't think we've called it a summit, but I think the idea is a good one.
Nid wyf yn siŵr a fyddem yn ei galw'n uwchgynhadledd, ond mae gennym rywbeth tebyg iawn ar waith. Unwaith eto, rwy'n dilyn patrwm a oedd gennyf pan oeddwn yn y sedd hon ddiwethaf. Ers ichi gael eich ethol i'r lle hwn, Peter, credaf fod pethau wedi newid i raddau. Bellach, mae pob arweinydd a phob prif weithredwr yn cael eu gwahodd i'r cyngor partneriaeth—credaf mai is-set a oedd yn cael eu gwahodd pan oeddech chi'n arweinydd—ac rydym yn gwneud hynny’n fwriadol, fel y gallwn wneud yn union fel rydych chi newydd ei ddweud. Rydym hefyd yn gwahodd sefydliadau partner i’r rheini, fel y gallwn sicrhau ein bod yn cael sgwrs sy’n cynnwys iechyd, er enghraifft, neu’n cynnwys sefydliadau partner eraill.
Mae gennyf hefyd gyfrifoldeb gweinidogol dros Academi Wales, ac rydym wedi bod yn gwthio’r pwynt ynghylch un gwasanaeth cyhoeddus. Mae hynny'n swnio mor syml, onid yw? Ond mewn gwirionedd, mae'n gymhleth iawn. Mae hyd yn oed symud staff rhwng awdurdodau lleol ar secondiad yn gymhleth. Mae eu symud rhwng Llywodraeth Cymru ac awdurdodau lleol yn hynod o gymhleth gan fod y cynlluniau pensiwn yn wahanol ac yn y blaen. Serch hynny, rydym yn benderfynol o wneud iddo ddigwydd. Felly, un o’r themâu yn uwchgynhadledd arweinyddiaeth Academi Wales yr haf hwn fydd un gwasanaeth cyhoeddus Cymru, gyda’r bwriad o wneud yn union hynny, sicrhau bod cydweithwyr ym maes iechyd ac yn Llywodraeth Cymru ac mewn llywodraeth leol yn gweithio gyda’i gilydd fel cyfanwaith di-dor. Oherwydd, fel y dywedoch chi, yn gywir ddigon, llywodraeth leol yw’r sylfaen dda, gadarn, os mynnwch, ar gyfer y rhan fwyaf o weddill y gwasanaethau.
Ac rwyf hefyd wedi bod yn gofyn i fy nghyd-Aelodau ar draws Llywodraeth Cymru sicrhau eu bod yn dod drwy fy swyddfa, pan fyddant yn gofyn am bethau gan lywodraeth leol, fel y gallwn gadw llygad ar faint mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei ofyn i awdurdodau lleol, a pheidio â’i wneud, fel y dywedwch, mewn seilos portffolio, fel y gallwn gadw llygad ar hynny yn gyffredinol. Felly, credaf fod y syniad rydych chi wedi'i gyflwyno yn rhywbeth y mae gennyf gryn ddiddordeb ynddo. Ni chredaf ein bod wedi ei galw'n uwchgynhadledd, ond rwy'n credu bod y syniad yn un da.
Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Peredur Owen Griffiths.
Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Peredur Owen Griffiths.
Diolch, Llywydd. Well, last week, Labour's general election candidate in Swansea West, Torsten Bell, criticised the Tory Government for allowing unfair council tax to rise faster and faster than inflation for year after year. Now, I appreciate that, as someone with no prior connection to Wales, Mr Bell may not have the most in-depth knowledge of Welsh devolution nor of his party's record here, and the fact that four of Labour's six general election pledges for Wales have been the responsibility for this Welsh Government for some time, means that he probably isn't getting a very accurate picture from his own campaign headquarters either. So, for the benefit of Mr Bell and the rest of his Labour colleagues, who have been parachuted in to Welsh seats for this election, could you remind them, for the record, who has responsibility for local government funding policy, including council tax policy, here in Wales? And could you also remind him how much above inflation it has risen, on average, for band D properties during this financial year?
Diolch, Lywydd. Wel, yr wythnos diwethaf, beirniadodd ymgeisydd Llafur Gorllewin Abertawe yn yr etholiad cyffredinol, Torsten Bell, y Llywodraeth Dorïaidd am ganiatáu i’r dreth gyngor annheg godi’n gyflymach ac yn gyflymach na chwyddiant flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn. Nawr, rwy’n sylweddoli, fel rhywun heb unrhyw gysylltiad blaenorol â Chymru, efallai nad oes gan Mr Bell y wybodaeth ddyfnach am ddatganoli yng Nghymru nac o record ei blaid yma, a bod y ffaith bod pedwar o chwe addewid etholiad cyffredinol Llafur ar gyfer Cymru wedi bod yn gyfrifoldebau i Lywodraeth Cymru ers peth amser, yn golygu nad yw’n cael darlun cywir iawn, yn ôl pob tebyg, o bencadlys ei ymgyrch ei hun ychwaith. Felly, er budd Mr Bell a gweddill ei gyd-ymgeiswyr Llafur, sydd wedi cael eu parasiwtio i seddi Cymru ar gyfer yr etholiad hwn, a allech chi eu hatgoffa, ar gyfer y cofnod, pwy sy’n gyfrifol am bolisi ariannu llywodraeth leol, gan gynnwys polisi’r dreth gyngor, yma yng Nghymru? Ac a allech chi ei atgoffa hefyd faint yn uwch na chwyddiant y mae wedi codi, ar gyfartaledd, ar gyfer eiddo band D yn ystod y flwyddyn ariannol hon?
Well, I'm not going to indulge in that, Cefin; I'm really sorry that you've gone down that road. But what I would say is we really do believe in local government in Wales. We have never imposed a cap on council taxes here, because I think that local authorities are locally elected, democratically elected, and they should be in charge of what they want to do locally, and it's very much a matter for them. Of course we're very interested in looking at the fallout of that.
So, the gearing effect of the council tax, because of the different land values in Wales, is a very interesting one. So, the gearing in Monmouth, for example, is very different to that in Blaenau Gwent, so we've been looking at that. When we were in the co-operation agreement, you'll know we were looking at some of the discrepancies across that, and I'm very keen to pursue that. So, there is a real issue around fairness about where the band D—I don't know what to call it—tranche, I suppose, fits, and how much you pay in different places. And I don't know if you're familiar with the Office for National Statistics data that shows how many houses in each band there are in each local authority, but that really does speak volumes, doesn't it? Because in some local authorities, there are almost no houses over F and G; and in others, they're all in A, B, C, D.
So, I am very keen to make sure that all of the work that was done as part of the co-operation agreement—I know my colleague Rebecca Evans is keen to do this as well—is not lost, and that we make sure that we can come forward with a mutually agreed way of looking at council tax, with our local authorities, to make sure that we understand how best to damp off, if you like, the gearing effect of some of that. And, yes, we pursue a different policy to that in England, because I actually think the Welsh Government believes in local democracy, and we want to make sure that our local councillors have a say in the funding of their local authorities.
Wel, nid wyf yn mynd i dderbyn hynny, Cefin; mae'n drueni mawr eich bod wedi mynd i lawr y trywydd hwnnw. Ond yr hyn y byddwn yn ei ddweud yw ein bod yn credu'n wirioneddol mewn llywodraeth leol yng Nghymru. Nid ydym erioed wedi gosod cap ar drethi cyngor yma, gan y credaf fod awdurdodau lleol yn cael eu hethol yn lleol, yn cael eu hethol yn ddemocrataidd, a dylent fod yn gyfrifol am yr hyn y maent am ei wneud yn lleol, a mater iddynt hwy ydyw, yn bendant iawn. Wrth gwrs, mae gennym gryn ddiddordeb mewn edrych ar ganlyniadau hynny.
Felly, mae effaith gerio’r dreth gyngor, oherwydd y gwahanol werthoedd tir yng Nghymru, yn ddiddorol iawn. Felly, mae'r gerio ym Mynwy, er enghraifft, yn wahanol iawn i'r gerio ym Mlaenau Gwent, felly rydym wedi bod yn edrych ar hynny. Pan oedd y cytundeb cydweithio ar waith, fe fyddwch yn gwybod ein bod yn edrych ar rai o'r anghysondebau mewn perthynas â hynny, ac rwy'n awyddus iawn i fynd ar drywydd hynny. Felly, mae mater gwirioneddol yn codi ynghylch tegwch o ran ble mae—nid wyf yn gwybod beth i'w galw—cyfran band D, mae'n debyg, yn ffitio, a faint rydych chi'n ei dalu mewn gwahanol leoedd. Ac nid wyf yn gwybod a ydych chi'n gyfarwydd â data'r Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol sy'n dangos faint o dai ym mhob band sydd ym mhob awdurdod lleol, ond mae hynny'n siarad cyfrolau, onid yw? Oherwydd mewn rhai awdurdodau lleol, prin fod unrhyw dai dros F a G; ac mewn rhai eraill, mae pob un ym mand A, B, C, D.
Felly, rwy’n awyddus iawn i sicrhau nad yw’r holl waith a wnaed yn rhan o’r cytundeb cydweithio—gwn fod fy nghyd-Aelod Rebecca Evans yn awyddus i sicrhau hyn hefyd—yn cael ei golli, a’n bod yn sicrhau y gallwn gytuno gyda’n hawdurdodau lleol ar ffordd o edrych ar y dreth gyngor, i sicrhau ein bod yn deall sut i leddfu effaith gerio peth o hynny yn y ffordd orau. Ac rydym yn mynd ar drywydd polisi gwahanol i'r un yn Lloegr, oherwydd credaf fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn credu mewn democratiaeth leol, ac rydym am sicrhau bod llais gan ein cynghorwyr lleol mewn perthynas â chyllido eu hawdurdodau lleol.
Thank you very much for that answer, and I'm going to come on to one of those points that you raised there now. Despite Mr Bell's unfortunate oversight, his point about, fundamentally, the regressive nature of the council tax system places a disproportionate burden on lower income households, and that's very valid, and you echoed that in your answer there.
We in Plaid Cymru have been campaigning for reform in this area over many years, and, as you mentioned earlier, that's why, in our co-operation agreement with this Government, we had a commitment to implement a fairer and more progressive system within the current Senedd term. But this new administration's unilateral decision to kick this long-overdue reform into the long grass until 2028, at the earliest, typifies its broader tendency to prioritise the political survival of the First Minister above the interests of the people of Wales. This is one of several reasons why we had no option but to withdraw from the agreement.
Plaid Cymru has introduced an amendment to the upcoming Local Government Finance (Wales) Bill that would place a date of April 2025 on the face of the Bill for implementing those reforms. This would ensure that lower income households could benefit from a fairer council tax system sooner rather than later. Will the Cabinet Secretary call on her colleague the Cabinet Secretary for finance to support this amendment? And if not, does she accept that this will entrench systematic unfairness in how our local government is funded for at least the next four years?
Diolch yn fawr iawn am eich ateb, ac rwy'n mynd i ddod at un o'r pwyntiau hynny a godwyd gennych. Er gwaethaf amryfusedd anffodus Mr Bell, mae ei bwynt ynglŷn â natur sylfaenol atchweliadol system y dreth gyngor yn rhoi baich anghymesur ar aelwydydd incwm is yn ddilys iawn, ac adleisiwyd hynny gennych yn eich ateb.
Rydym ni ym Mhlaid Cymru wedi bod yn ymgyrchu dros ddiwygio yn y maes hwn ers blynyddoedd lawer, ac fel y sonioch chi'n gynharach, dyna pam oedd gennym ymrwymiad yn ein cytundeb cydweithio â’r Llywodraeth hon i weithredu system decach a mwy blaengar o fewn tymor y Senedd hon. Ond mae penderfyniad unochrog y weinyddiaeth newydd hon i ohirio’r diwygio hirddisgwyliedig hyd at 2028 ar y cynharaf yn nodweddiadol o’i thuedd ehangach i flaenoriaethu goroesiad gwleidyddol y Prif Weinidog uwchlaw buddiannau pobl Cymru. Dyma un o nifer o resymau pam nad oedd gennym unrhyw ddewis ond tynnu'n ôl o'r cytundeb.
Mae Plaid Cymru wedi cyflwyno gwelliant i Fil Cyllid Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru) sydd ar y ffordd a fyddai’n rhoi mis Ebrill 2025 fel dyddiad ar wyneb y Bil ar gyfer rhoi'r diwygiadau hynny ar waith. Byddai hyn yn sicrhau y gallai aelwydydd incwm is elwa ar system dreth gyngor decach yn gynt yn hytrach nag yn hwyrach. A wnaiff Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet alw ar ei chyd-Aelod, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros gyllid, i gefnogi’r gwelliant hwn? Ac os na, a yw'n derbyn y bydd hyn yn gwreiddio annhegwch systematig yn y ffordd y caiff ein llywodraeth leol ei hariannu am y pedair blynedd nesaf o leiaf?
Thanks, Cefin. I really appreciated the conversations we all had about what to do about council tax. Council tax is not a tax fit for purpose, I think we all agree. I can't quite remember where some of this fell, so forgive me, it might have been before or after the co-operation agreement ended, but as part of the consultation we had a very wide range of responses from local authorities themselves ranging from a couple that were enthusiastic to some that were dead set against doing this, to pretty much every response in between. I think the view that we took was that given where they are and the amount of things they're wrestling with, this was just a step too far at this point in time.
I think the date that you've just mentioned is now not possible in terms of the set-up and running of it anyway, because we were right up against a decision to be made in order to understand what the implementation date is. It's not my Bill; it's my colleague Rebecca Evans's Bill, but obviously I'm very involved with it. I'm pretty sure that we actually physically can't do it by that date, even if we wanted to. But we took the view, I think, with a bit of a heavy heart, that it was just a step too far for local government given the set of things that they were currently dealing with.
I personally, though, have been pushing in the Government, looking again at the council tax relief scheme, because I think one of the issues we want to have a look at is the effect of not revaluing on A and B-banded households. That isn't help to the local authority itself. I'd be very interested to see what we can do to help the individual families that perhaps would have seen a fall in their bills in this cost-of-living crisis and who now won't because of this. So, I'm very keen and I'm happy to discuss with you whether there would be anything we could do about those individuals.
In the meantime, of course, we support the local authorities with the revenue support grant. We're up against falling budgets, as you know, and I'm in the depths of long discussions with local authorities about how that formula works. But it's the size of the pie, in the end, isn't it, that's the problem; it's not really how big the slices are. Because if the pie is this size and you reslice it, somebody loses while somebody else might gain a bit. So, the real issue is the pie is not big enough, and we can't solve that unless we have a different government in Westminster, so obviously I'm very much hoping that Torsten and others will be elected so that we can have a Labour government after 4 July.
Diolch, Cefin. Roeddwn yn gwerthfawrogi'n fawr y sgyrsiau a gawsom i gyd am beth i'w wneud am y dreth gyngor. Rwy'n credu ein bod i gyd yn cytuno nad yw'r dreth gyngor yn dreth sy'n addas i'r diben. Ni allaf gofio yn union ble roedd hyn, felly maddeuwch i mi, efallai ei fod cyn neu ar ôl i'r cytundeb cydweithio ddod i ben, ond fel rhan o'r ymgynghoriad cawsom ystod eang iawn o ymatebion gan awdurdodau lleol eu hunain yn amrywio o un neu ddau a oedd yn frwdfrydig i rai a oedd yn gwrthwynebu hyn yn gyfan gwbl, i bron bob ymateb yn y canol. O ystyried ble maent arni a faint o bethau y maent yn ymgodymu â nhw, y farn y daethom iddi oedd bod hwn gam yn rhy bell ar hyn o bryd.
Nid wyf yn credu bod y dyddiad rydych chi newydd ei grybwyll yn bosibl nawr o ran sefydlu a rhedeg y peth beth bynnag, oherwydd roedd yn rhaid gwneud penderfyniad er mwyn deall beth yw'r dyddiad gweithredu. Bil fy nghyd-Aelod Rebecca Evans ydyw, nid fy Mil i, ond yn amlwg rwy'n gysylltiedig ag ef. Rwy'n eithaf sicr nad yw'n bosibl ei wneud erbyn y dyddiad hwnnw, hyd yn oed pe baem eisiau gwneud hynny. Ond gyda chalon drom, daethom i'r farn fod hynny gam yn rhy bell i lywodraeth leol o ystyried y set o bethau yr oeddent yn ymdopi â nhw ar hyn o bryd.
Ond yn bersonol, rwyf wedi bod yn gwthio yn y Llywodraeth, gan edrych eto ar gynllun rhyddhad y dreth gyngor, oherwydd credaf mai un o'r pethau rydym am edrych arnynt yw effaith peidio ag ailbrisio ar aelwydydd band A a band B. Nid yw hynny'n gymorth i'r awdurdod lleol ei hun. Byddai gennyf ddiddordeb mawr mewn gweld beth y gallwn ei wneud i helpu'r teuluoedd unigol a fyddai efallai wedi gweld gostyngiad yn eu biliau yn yr argyfwng costau byw hwn ac na fyddant yn gweld hynny nawr oherwydd hyn. Felly, rwy'n awyddus iawn ac rwy'n hapus i drafod gyda chi i weld a fyddai unrhyw beth y gallem ei wneud am yr unigolion hynny.
Yn y cyfamser, wrth gwrs, rydym yn cefnogi'r awdurdodau lleol gyda'r grant cynnal refeniw. Rydym yn wynebu cyllidebau sy'n crebachu, fel y gwyddoch, ac rwyf yng nghanol trafodaethau hir gydag awdurdodau lleol ynghylch sut mae'r fformiwla honno'n gweithio. Ond maint y gacen yw'r broblem yn y pen draw onid e, nid pa mor fawr yw'r tafelli. Oherwydd os yw'r gacen y maint hwn a'ch bod chi'n ei hail-dorri, mae rhywun yn colli tra bo rhywun arall efallai'n ennill ychydig. Felly, y broblem go iawn yw nad yw'r gacen yn ddigon mawr, ac ni allwn ddatrys hynny oni bai bod gennym lywodraeth wahanol yn San Steffan, felly yn amlwg, rwy'n gobeithio'n fawr y bydd Torsten ac eraill yn cael eu hethol fel y gallwn gael llywodraeth Lafur ar ôl 4 Gorffennaf.
Thank you for that answer. I will take you up on the conversations certainly on council tax reform, because it's something that's very close to my heart.
It isn't just Welsh Labour that's displaying a lack of seriousness about the major challenges during this election campaign. The likes of the Resolution Foundation and the Institute for Fiscal Studies have rightly called out both the Tory and the Labour leadership for being in complete denial about the state of UK public finances. The reality has been spelled out in the starkest terms by the International Monetary Fund: for both parties to achieve their stated aim of reducing debt as a proportion of gross domestic product within five years, they will have to contend with a black hole of approximately £30 billion in the public purse, and with neither party making the case for progressive tax-raising initiatives such as aligning capital gains tax with income tax, this means a fresh round of austerity measures is coming, regardless of who wins on 4 July.
The implications of these stretched resources are being seen by the fact that Torfaen and Blaenau Gwent county borough councils have announced that they will be sharing a chief executive over the foreseeable future. Can I ask the Cabinet Secretary, therefore, whether this trend towards the pooling of resources across councils is the direction of travel we should expect for local government over the next few years, and is she supportive of this move?
Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw. Fe dderbyniaf yr hyn a ddywedwch am y sgyrsiau ar ddiwygio'r dreth gyngor, oherwydd mae'n rhywbeth sy'n agos iawn at fy nghalon.
Nid Llafur Cymru yn unig sy'n dangos diffyg difrifoldeb ynghylch yr heriau mawr yn ystod yr ymgyrch etholiadol hon. Mae pobl fel y Resolution Foundation a'r Sefydliad Astudiaethau Cyllid wedi tynnu sylw yn briodol ddigon at y ffaith bod arweinwyr y Torïaid a'r Blaid Lafur yn ymwrthod â realiti cyflwr cyllid cyhoeddus y DU. Mae'r realiti wedi'i nodi'n glir iawn gan y Gronfa Ariannol Ryngwladol: i'r ddwy blaid gyflawni eu nod datganedig o leihau dyled fel cyfran o gynnyrch domestig gros o fewn pum mlynedd, bydd yn rhaid iddynt ymdopi â thwll du o oddeutu £30 biliwn yn y pwrs cyhoeddus, a chyda'r naill blaid na'r llall yn dadlau'r achos dros gynlluniau codi trethi blaengar fel alinio treth enillion cyfalaf â threth incwm, mae hyn yn golygu bod rownd newydd o fesurau cyni ar y ffordd, ni waeth pwy fydd yn ennill ar 4 Gorffennaf.
Mae goblygiadau'r pwysau ar adnoddau i'w gweld yn y ffaith bod cynghorau bwrdeistref sirol Torfaen a Blaenau Gwent wedi cyhoeddi y byddant yn rhannu prif weithredwr am y dyfodol rhagweladwy. A gaf i ofyn i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, felly, ai'r tueddiad tuag at gyfuno adnoddau ar draws cynghorau yw'r cyfeiriad teithio y dylem ei ddisgwyl ar gyfer llywodraeth leol dros y blynyddoedd nesaf, ac a yw hi'n cefnogi'r tueddiad hwnnw?
Thank you, Cefin. The short answer is yes, I am supportive of it—
Diolch, Cefin. Yr ateb byr yw ydw, rwy'n ei gefnogol—
I think that might have been the second time that you've called Peredur Cefin.
Rwy'n credu efallai mai dyna oedd yr ail dro i chi alw Peredur yn Cefin.
I'm so sorry. Shall I put my glasses on, would that help?
Mae'n wir ddrwg gennyf. A wnaf i wisgo fy sbectol, a fyddai hynny'n helpu?
I know they're sitting next to each other.
Rwy'n gwybod eu bod yn eistedd wrth ymyl ei gilydd.
I have a longer beard. [Laughter.]
Mae fy marf i'n hirach. [Chwerthin.]
I'm really sorry. I'll put my glasses on. Huge apologies. My problem is that I've arrived at that point in my life where I need two pairs of glasses, and I'm only carrying my reading glasses with me, so I'm afraid you're a bit of a blur in the distance, so huge apologies.
Mae'n wir ddrwg gennyf. Fe wnaf wisgo fy sbectol. Ymddiheuriadau mawr. Fy mhroblem i yw fy mod i wedi cyrraedd pwynt yn fy mywyd lle mae angen dau bâr o sbectol arnaf, a dim ond fy sbectol ddarllen sydd gennyf, felly mae arnaf ofn eich bod chi braidd yn aneglur i mi, ymddiheuriadau mawr.
Varifocals work very well for me.
Mae sbectol amrywffocal yn gweithio'n dda iawn i mi.
I have tried, Llywydd, many times, and I'm afraid they make me feel really ill.
Rwyf wedi rhoi cynnig arni lawer gwaith, Lywydd, ac rwy'n ofni eu bod yn gwneud i mi deimlo'n wirioneddol sâl.
Yes, I know they do for some.
Rwy'n gwybod eu bod yn gwneud hynny i rai.
So, I end up doing this kind of thing, which is not good. So, huge apologies. I've lost my thread completely now. Oh yes, I know, the shared resources point. The answer to that is 'yes’. I think there are some resources that should be shared and could be shared, and they would be of great effect across the public sector in Wales. I mentioned in an answer to Peter Fox earlier that there are a number of professions that are really difficult to recruit or to retain—hard to train, long training, et cetera. I've got a list of eight or 10 in my head that I've shared with local authority leaders across Wales and they all nod sagely at me.
It seems obvious to me that, in order to retain people like planners and flood engineers and specialist staff of one sort or another—building control officers; there's a whole range of them across an enormous number of professions—what we need to be able to do is provide a career structure inside local government that retains people in the public sector and doesn't have the attrition that we get into the private sector at around five or six years qualified, where people are faced with a situation where, if their boss doesn't leave in the next five years, there's no promotion for them, and so they look elsewhere. We've got to find professional career structures inside local authorities to be able to retain people. I think chief executives are in that category, actually. It's a very difficult job to be a chief executive of a local authority. You have to span an enormous range of different services and different pressures, and actually they're pretty hard to find and pretty unsung, it seems to me. And so I'm actively pleased to see that.
There are other services that really need a very local flavour. You want development control to be local, because, as I said in an earlier question, I don't want identikit towns all around Wales—I want individual planning authorities to have very specific planning for their individual towns, so you retain the independent flavour of that town. I think the example I gave was Cardigan: if you go to Cardigan, you get a different experience than if you go to somewhere else.
It is about what you mean exactly and what you're sharing. In general, we are encouraging local authorities to come together to provide career structures for hard-to-recruit professionals and to share expertise. The minerals example I used earlier is a classic example of that. No authority has a need for a 37.5-hours-a-week mineral specialist, but all of the authorities together have a need for two of them, and so we've come to an arrangement where it's provided by one authority in the north and one in the south. There are many other services where that would work very well. We have lots of examples of local authorities all asking for legal advice about the same issue independently, for example, where it would be a great deal easier to pool that. Co-operation is key, but I'm not trying to stealthily combine them, if that's what you mean, because I think there are many things that we could discuss where it's important they are done locally.
Felly, rwy'n tueddu i wneud y math hwn o beth, nad yw'n dda. Felly, ymddiheuriadau mawr. Rwyf wedi colli fy lle'n llwyr erbyn hyn. O ie, rwy'n gwybod, y pwynt am rannu adnoddau. Yr ateb i hynny yw 'ydw'. Rwy'n credu bod yna rai adnoddau y dylid eu rhannu ac y gellid eu rhannu, a byddai'n effeithiol iawn ar draws y sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru. Soniais mewn ateb i Peter Fox yn gynharach fod nifer o broffesiynau sy'n anodd iawn recriwtio iddynt neu gadw staff ynddynt—yn anodd eu hyfforddi, hyfforddiant hir, ac ati. Mae gennyf restr o wyth neu 10 yn fy mhen a rennais gydag arweinwyr awdurdodau lleol ledled Cymru ac maent i gyd yn cyd-fynd â mi.
Mae'n ymddangos yn amlwg i mi, er mwyn cadw pobl fel cynllunwyr a pheirianwyr llifogydd a staff arbenigol o ryw fath neu'i gilydd—swyddogion rheoli adeiladu; mae yna ystod ohonynt ar draws nifer enfawr o broffesiynau—yr hyn y mae angen inni allu ei wneud yw darparu strwythur gyrfa o fewn llywodraeth leol sy'n cadw pobl yn y sector cyhoeddus ac nad oes iddo'r cyfraddau gadael a welir i mewn i'r sector preifat tua phum neu chwe blynedd ar ôl cymhwyso, lle mae pobl yn wynebu sefyllfa lle nad oes dyrchafiad iddynt os nad yw eu pennaeth yn gadael yn y pum mlynedd nesaf, ac felly maent yn edrych ar rywle arall. Mae'n rhaid inni ddod o hyd i strwythurau gyrfa proffesiynol o fewn awdurdodau lleol er mwyn gallu cadw pobl. Rwy'n credu bod prif weithredwyr yn y categori hwnnw mewn gwirionedd. Mae'n waith anodd iawn i fod yn brif weithredwr awdurdod lleol. Mae'n rhaid i chi rychwantu ystod enfawr o wahanol wasanaethau a gwahanol fathau o bwysau, ac maent yn eithaf anodd dod o hyd iddynt ac nid ydynt yn cael llawer o glod, mae'n ymddangos i mi. Felly, rwy'n falch iawn o weld hynny.
Mae yna wasanaethau eraill sy'n lleol iawn eu natur. Rydych chi am i reolaeth datblygu fod yn lleol, oherwydd, fel y dywedais mewn cwestiwn cynharach, nid wyf am weld trefi union yr un fath â'i gilydd ledled Cymru—rwyf am i awdurdodau cynllunio unigol gael cynlluniau penodol iawn ar gyfer eu trefi unigol, fel eich bod yn cadw natur annibynnol y dref honno. Rwy'n meddwl mai'r enghraifft a roddais oedd Aberteifi: os ewch chi i Aberteifi, rydych chi'n cael profiad gwahanol i'r un a gewch chi os ewch chi i rywle arall.
Mae'n ymwneud â'r hyn rydych chi'n ei olygu'n union a beth rydych chi'n ei rannu. Yn gyffredinol, rydym yn annog awdurdodau lleol i ddod at ei gilydd i ddarparu strwythurau gyrfa ar gyfer gweithwyr proffesiynol sy'n anodd recriwtio iddynt ac i rannu arbenigedd. Mae'r enghraifft a ddefnyddiais am fwynau yn gynharach yn enghraifft glasurol o hynny. Nid oes angen arbenigwr mwynau 37.5 awr yr wythnos ar unrhyw awdurdod, ond mae pob un o'r awdurdodau gyda'i gilydd angen dau ohonynt, ac felly rydym wedi dod i drefniant lle mae'n cael ei ddarparu gan un awdurdod yn y gogledd ac un yn y de. Mae llawer o wasanaethau eraill lle byddai hynny'n gweithio'n dda iawn. Mae gennym lawer o enghreifftiau o awdurdodau lleol i gyd yn gofyn am gyngor cyfreithiol am yr un mater yn annibynnol, er enghraifft, lle byddai'n llawer haws cronni hynny. Mae cydweithredu'n allweddol, ond nid wyf yn ceisio eu cyfuno'n llechwraidd, os mai dyna a olygwch, oherwydd rwy'n credu bod llawer o bethau y gallem eu trafod lle mae'n bwysig eu bod yn cael eu gwneud yn lleol.
3. A wnaiff yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet roi diweddariad am niferoedd y tai o dan berchnogaeth gyhoeddus a chydweithredol sydd yn cael eu hadeiladu yng Nghymru? OQ61235
3. Will the Cabinet Secretary provide an update on the number of houses in public and co-operative ownership being built in Wales? OQ61235
Thank you, Mabon. We remain committed to supporting the development of co-operative and community-led housing and to enabling people to take more control of their housing. For example, almost £900,000 has been awarded to Gŵyr Community Land Trust from the land and building development fund for the development of 14 carbon-zero affordable homes.
Diolch yn fawr, Mabon. Rydym yn parhau i fod yn ymrwymedig i gefnogi datblygiad tai cydweithredol a thai dan arweiniad y gymuned ac i alluogi pobl i gymryd mwy o reolaeth dros eu tai. Er enghraifft, dyfarnwyd bron i £900,000 i Ymddiriedolaeth Tir Cymunedol Gŵyr o'r gronfa datblygu tir ac adeiladu ar gyfer datblygu 14 o gartrefi fforddiadwy di-garbon.
Diolch i'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet am yr ateb yna. Mi ydych chi a phawb yma’n bresennol wedi cydnabod ac yn derbyn bod yna argyfwng tai gennym ni ac, wrth gwrs, yr ateb, o bosib, i'r argyfwng tai ydy adeiladu mwy o dai o dan berchnogaeth gyhoeddus. 'Tai cymdeithasol' ydy'r term sy'n cael ei ddefnyddio gan fwyaf am y peth. Ond mae yna ddiffyg arian ar gyfer hyn, ac mae'r arian sydd yn cael ei neilltuo yn gorfod cael ei rannu rhwng adeiladu tai neu 'retrofit-io' y tai presennol. Yn anffodus, dydyn ni ddim yn gweld bod y gyllideb yn mynd i gynyddu tuag at adeiladu mwy o dai chwaith, naill ai o dan y Llywodraeth bresennol neu’r Llywodraeth newydd fydd yn dod i mewn, felly mae'n rhaid inni edrych ar ffyrdd newydd o ddenu arian i adeiladu tai yma yng Nghymru.
Mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru y gallu i fenthyg £150 miliwn y flwyddyn at ddibenion o'u dymuniad nhw, ond, hyd yma, yn ôl beth dwi'n ei weld, dydy'r Llywodraeth ddim wedi defnyddio'r galluoedd yna. Felly, pa drafodaethau ydych chi, Ysgrifennydd Cabinet, wedi eu cael efo'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet dros gyllid er mwyn gweld pa ddefnydd y gellir ei wneud o'r arian yna, ac a ydych chi am fenthyg arian er mwyn ei roi tuag at adeiladu tai cymdeithasol a thai o dan berchnogaeth gyhoeddus?
I thank the Cabinet Secretary for that response. You and everyone here this afternoon has recognised and accepted that we have a housing crisis and, of course, the solution, possibly, to that is to build more homes under public ownership. 'Social housing' is the term commonly used for it. But there's a shortage of funds for this, and the funding that is allocated has to be shared between house building or retrofiting the current stock. Unfortunately, we don't see the budget increasing for building more homes either, under the current Government or the new Government that will be elected, so we do have to look at new ways of bringing funding into house building here in Wales.
The Welsh Government has the ability to borrow £150 million per annum for purposes of its choosing, but, so far, from what I see, the Government hasn't used those powers. So what discussions are you having, Cabinet Secretary, with the Cabinet Secretary for finance, in order to see what use could be made of those funds, and will you borrow money in order to build more social housing and publicly owned housing here in Wales?
Diolch, Mabon. That's a very interesting idea. I think, actually, we very much hope that an incoming Labour Government will review the fiscal framework for Wales and actually put us onto a far better footing in terms of prudential borrowing than we are on at the moment. That would clearly make a lot of sense. There are a number of things that it would be sensible to borrow for, and the kind of infrastructure you're talking about is certainly one of them, so I'm certainly interested in that. We haven't done that for the moment because we have a number of other calls on the Welsh Government's budget, and of course once you've borrowed you've got to service the borrowing. In fact, we have asked on our behalf local authorities to borrow to do particular things, and we support them with revenue for that. In my budget there is a line that has revenue support to local authorities for borrowing. So, we have figured out a way around it, if you like.
In fact, whilst more money is always welcome—and I want to say that very loudly in case my Cabinet colleague for finance is listening—much of the issues we have with building social housing in Wales are not finance based, really. They're around a whole range of other things. So, we're working at a very granular level now with local authorities to make sure that, for every single piece of housing land in the local development plan, we understand where that is in the planning system: is planning coming forward for it? What are the houses on there? How many houses are those? Are they building the social houses first? Et cetera. In my previous role, I was chairing the water summits, and my colleague Huw is now doing it. We've managed to unlock several of the sites that had phosphate problems, but we have many more to go. We're working at an extremely detailed level on how to do that. One of the special advisers who was with us as part of the co-operation agreement was doing a sterling piece of work on that, and I've recently asked Jack Sargeant to pick up some of that for me.
We know we have enough in the planning system to be able to get to our target. What we don't know yet is whether we can build them fast enough. I want to make the Welsh Government's target for 20,000 social homes for rent, but I'm much more concerned with actually having enough in the pipeline, because we need more than that. What we want to do is make sure that the planning system has all the capability inside it to allocate those houses out and that we've got planning consents coming forward that are able to be built out that will produce the housing we want.
Just to be really clear, we're not looking at single-purpose estates here. I do not want a single-tenure estate to be built. As it happens, I was in a meeting this morning where I was ranting on about the housing development in St David's, which was built with the social housing grant, but before the current checks and balances. I don't know if you're familiar with it—the one behind the Premier Inn in St David's. I am very cross about that development, because they have put all the social housing on one side and all the private housing on the other and they don't look the same, and that is not what we want. So, just to be really clear, the current planning guidelines are that social housing built as part of a mixed-tenure development should be pepper-potted through that development and the houses should all be built to the same standard, and that's the social house standard. So, I just want to be really clear: we want the numbers, but we also want the right houses, and we want good-quality low-carbon houses that are built so that they don't require retrofitting in 10 years' time, and that they are houses for life, fit for the future.
And then, just to say, as part of that mixed-tenure piece, I am very keen indeed to have other tenures—so, shared equity tenures, co-operative housing tenures. I had a meeting with the Solva Community Land Trust—my days seamlessly blend into each other; I don't think it was this morning—yesterday, I think it was, and we talked about how we can accelerate the build for that. There's the Gŵyr community trust going on in my colleague Rebecca Evans's constituency, and we're working with Cwmpas very hard to make sure we bring forward co-operative and CLT housing. So, I hope that I am painting a picture of being very open to any kind of housing built to the right standard that comes forward that assists us to get people out of temporary accommodation and into their home for life.
Diolch, Mabon. Mae'n syniad diddorol iawn. Rydym yn gobeithio'n fawr y bydd Llywodraeth Lafur newydd yn adolygu'r fframwaith cyllidol ar gyfer Cymru ac mewn gwirionedd yn ein rhoi ar sylfaen lawer gwell o ran benthyca darbodus na lle rydym ar hyn o bryd. Yn amlwg, byddai hynny'n gwneud llawer o synnwyr. Mae yna nifer o bethau y byddai'n synhwyrol benthyca ar eu cyfer, ac mae'r math o seilwaith rydych chi'n siarad amdano yn un ohonynt, felly mae gennyf ddiddordeb yn hynny yn sicr. Nid ydym wedi gwneud hynny am y tro oherwydd bod gennym nifer o alwadau eraill ar gyllideb Llywodraeth Cymru, ac wrth gwrs ar ôl i chi fenthyca mae'n rhaid i chi dalu costau'r benthyciad. Mewn gwirionedd, rydym wedi gofyn i awdurdodau lleol ar ein rhan i fenthyca i wneud pethau penodol, ac rydym yn eu cefnogi gyda refeniw ar gyfer hynny. Yn fy nghyllideb mae yna linell sydd â chymorth refeniw i awdurdodau lleol ar gyfer benthyca. Felly, rydym wedi cyfrifo ffordd o'i gwmpas, os mynnwch.
A dweud y gwir, er bod mwy o arian bob amser i'w groesawu—ac rwyf am ddweud hynny'n uchel iawn rhag ofn bod fy nghyd-Aelod o'r Cabinet dros gyllid yn gwrando—mae llawer o'r materion sy'n codi wrth adeiladu tai cymdeithasol yng Nghymru heb fod yn seiliedig ar gyllid mewn gwirionedd. Maent yn ymwneud ag ystod eang o bethau eraill. Felly, rydym yn gweithio ar lefel ronynnog iawn nawr gydag awdurdodau lleol i wneud yn siŵr, am bob darn o dir ar gyfer tai yn y cynllun datblygu lleol, ein bod yn deall ble mae hynny yn y system gynllunio: a yw'r cynlluniau'n cael eu cyflwyno ar gyfer hynny? Beth yw'r tai yno? Faint o dai yw'r rheini? A ydynt yn adeiladu'r tai cymdeithasol yn gyntaf? Ac yn y blaen. Yn fy rôl flaenorol, roeddwn yn cadeirio'r uwchgynadleddau dŵr, ac mae fy nghyd-Aelod Huw yn gwneud hynny erbyn hyn. Rydym wedi llwyddo i ailddechrau nifer o'r safleoedd a oedd â phroblemau ffosffad, ond mae gennym lawer mwy i fynd. Rydym yn gweithio ar lefel fanwl iawn ar sut i wneud hynny. Roedd un o'r cynghorwyr arbennig a oedd gyda ni fel rhan o'r cytundeb cydweithio yn gwneud gwaith ardderchog ar hynny, ac yn ddiweddar rwyf wedi gofyn i Jack Sargeant fynd ar drywydd hynny ar fy rhan.
Rydym yn gwybod bod gennym ddigon yn y system gynllunio i allu cyrraedd ein targed. Yr hyn nad ydym yn ei wybod eto yw a allwn eu hadeiladu'n ddigon cyflym. Rwyf am gyrraedd targed Llywodraeth Cymru o 20,000 o gartrefi cymdeithasol i'w gosod ar rent, ond rwy'n poeni llawer mwy am gael digon ar y gweill mewn gwirionedd, oherwydd mae angen mwy na hynny arnom. Rydym am sicrhau bod gan y system gynllunio gapasiti o'i mewn i ddyrannu'r tai hynny a bod gennym ganiatadau cynllunio i ddod y gellir eu hadeiladu a fydd yn cynhyrchu'r tai rydym eu heisiau.
I fod yn glir iawn, nid ydym yn edrych ar ystadau un pwrpas yma. Nid wyf am weld ystad un ddeiliadaeth yn cael ei hadeiladu. Fel mae'n digwydd, roeddwn mewn cyfarfod y bore yma lle'r oeddwn yn uchel fy nghloch am y datblygiad tai yn Nhyddewi, a adeiladwyd gyda'r grant tai cymdeithasol, ond cyn yr archwiliadau presennol. Nid wyf yn gwybod os ydych chi'n gyfarwydd ag ef—yr un tu ôl i'r Premier Inn yn Nhyddewi. Rwy'n ddig iawn ynglŷn â'r datblygiad hwnnw, oherwydd maent wedi rhoi'r tai cymdeithasol i gyd ar un ochr a'r tai preifat i gyd ar yr ochr arall ac nid ydynt yn edrych yr un peth, ac nid dyna rydym ei eisiau. Felly, i fod yn glir iawn, mae'r canllawiau cynllunio presennol yn dweud y dylai tai cymdeithasol a adeiladwyd fel rhan o ddatblygiad deiliadaeth gymysg gael eu gwasgaru drwy'r datblygiad hwnnw a dylid adeiladu'r tai i gyd i'r un safon, sef y safon tai cymdeithasol. Felly, rwyf eisiau bod yn glir iawn: rydym eisiau'r niferoedd, ond rydym eisiau'r tai cywir hefyd, ac rydym eisiau tai carbon isel o ansawdd da sy'n cael eu hadeiladu fel nad oes angen ôl-osod arnynt ymhen 10 mlynedd, a'u bod yn dai am oes, yn addas ar gyfer y dyfodol.
Ac yna, fel rhan o'r ddeiliadaeth gymysg honno, rwy'n awyddus iawn i gael mathau eraill o deiliadaeth—felly, deiliadaethau rhannu ecwiti, deiliadaethau tai cydweithredol. Cefais gyfarfod gydag Ymddiriedolaeth Tir Cymunedol Solfa—mae fy nyddiau'n ymdoddi'n ddi-dor i'w gilydd; nid wyf yn meddwl mai bore yma oedd hynny—ddoe, rwy'n credu, ac fe wnaethom siarad ynglŷn â sut y gallwn gyflymu'r gwaith adeiladu ar gyfer hynny. Mae ymddiriedolaeth gymunedol Gŵyr yn digwydd yn etholaeth fy nghyd-Aelod, Rebecca Evans, ac rydym yn gweithio'n galed iawn gyda Cwmpas i sicrhau ein bod yn cyflwyno tai cydweithredol a thai dan arweiniad y gymuned. Felly, rwy'n gobeithio fy mod yn paentio darlun o fod yn agored iawn i unrhyw fath o dai sydd wedi'u hadeiladu i'r safon gywir sy'n ein cynorthwyo i gael pobl allan o lety dros dro ac i mewn i'w cartref am oes.
Wales has a housing crisis, and although the last UK Labour Government oversaw the lowest level of house building since the 1920s, it was the Welsh Government that by 2010 had by far the lowest proportional level of housing expenditure of any of the four UK nations. Subsequent successive independent reports found that Wales needs between 12,000 and 15,000 new homes a year, including 5,000 social homes, incorporating those in public and co-operative ownership. Even more modest forecasts for the Welsh Government identified a need for up to 8,300 new homes a year, but only 5,720 were delivered on average annually in Wales between 2010 and last December. Why, given that Welsh housing sector research shows a £2.30 public sector saving for every £1 spent on housing, were only 2,825 new homes for social rent completed in Wales in the first three years of this Senedd term to last December, against the Welsh Government's 20,000 target for the five-year term, and why do the latest National House Building Council figures show a 43 per cent drop in new homes registered in Wales, equal bottom out of 12 UK nations and regions?
Mae gan Gymru argyfwng tai, ac er i Lywodraeth Lafur ddiwethaf y DU lywodraethu dros y lefel isaf o adeiladu tai ers y 1920au, Llywodraeth Cymru oedd â'r lefel gyfrannol isaf o bell ffordd o wariant ar dai ymhlith pedair gwlad y DU erbyn 2010. Canfu adroddiadau annibynnol dilynol fod angen rhwng 12,000 a 15,000 o gartrefi newydd ar Gymru y flwyddyn, gan gynnwys 5,000 o gartrefi cymdeithasol, gan gynnwys y rheini mewn perchnogaeth gyhoeddus a chydweithredol. Nododd rhagolygon mwy cymedrol byth ar gyfer Llywodraeth Cymru fod angen hyd at 8,300 o gartrefi newydd y flwyddyn, ond dim ond 5,720 a gafodd eu darparu bob blwyddyn yng Nghymru ar gyfartaledd rhwng 2010 a mis Rhagfyr diwethaf. O ystyried bod ymchwil sector tai Cymru yn dangos arbediad o £2.30 i'r sector cyhoeddus am bob £1 sy'n cael ei gwario ar dai, pam mai dim ond 2,825 o gartrefi newydd ar gyfer rhent cymdeithasol a gwblhawyd yng Nghymru yn ystod tair blynedd gyntaf tymor y Senedd hon hyd at fis Rhagfyr diwethaf, yn erbyn targed Llywodraeth Cymru o 20,000 ar gyfer y tymor pum mlynedd, a pham mae ffigurau diweddaraf y Cyngor Cenedlaethol Adeiladu Tai yn dangos gostyngiad o 43 y cant yn nifer y cartrefi newydd sydd wedi'u cofrestru yng Nghymru, yn gydradd olaf ymhlith 12 gwlad a rhanbarth y DU?
Well, Mark, I know you love a series of statistics, so let me give you some statistics as well, then. So, Lee Rowley made some remarks when he was housing Minister on a Radio 4 programme, and he was the sixteenth housing Minister since 2010, so it's always nice to see continuity in the sector. In England, during the tenure of the 16 housing Ministers, social housing has declined. So, a combination of selling off, demolition and very low build-out rates has meant that there are fewer houses for social rent at the end of a 14-year tenure of Conservative Government than there were in the first place. So, if you want to talk about what is disgraceful, that is disgraceful. Those statistics are easy to find and very transparent.
What the coalition Government did in 2010 was it changed the criteria and it introduced the so-called affordable rent category, and then it slashed the housing grant by 60 per cent, which meant that registered social landlords in England were forced either to build far fewer houses for social rent or very many more houses for affordable rent, and that has meant the decimation of the social rent sector.
Here in Wales we've taken a very different approach to that. We are building houses for social rent—that's rent between 30 per cent and 50 per cent of market rent, not 80 per cent of market rent—and we are on track to deliver our programme. It's not linear; we weren't expecting to build 4,000 in every year and it added to 20,000. As I said, you've got to do a whole series of things to start that programme up. You have to bear in mind as well, Mark, that up until really quite recently, local authorities with housing revenue accounts were not allowed to build social housing unless they repaid the whole of their debt package. I mean, after 40 years of nonsense from the Conservatives on that, you did finally change your mind, but, my gosh, it took a long time. The destruction of social rent by the Thatcher Government has reverberated through the years, so if you want to trade that kind of statistic, I’m very happy to do so.
Wel, Mark, rwy'n gwybod eich bod chi wrth eich bodd gyda chyfres o ystadegau, felly gadewch imi roi rhai ystadegau i chi hefyd. Fe wnaeth Lee Rowley sylwadau pan oedd yn Weinidog tai ar raglen ar Radio 4, ac ef oedd yr unfed Gweinidog tai ar bymtheg ers 2010, felly mae bob amser yn braf gweld parhad yn y sector. Yn Lloegr, yn ystod cyfnod yr 16 o Weinidogion tai, mae tai cymdeithasol wedi gostwng. Felly, mae cyfuniad o werthu, dymchwel a chyfraddau adeiladu isel iawn wedi golygu bod llai o dai ar gael ar gyfer rhent cymdeithasol ar ddiwedd cyfnod o 14 mlynedd o Lywodraeth Geidwadol nag a oedd yn y lle cyntaf. Felly, os ydych chi eisiau siarad am bethau gwarthus, mae hynny'n warthus. Mae'r ystadegau hynny'n hawdd eu canfod ac yn dryloyw iawn.
Yr hyn a wnaeth y Llywodraeth glymblaid yn 2010 oedd newid y meini prawf a chyflwynodd y categori rhent fforddiadwy fel y'i gelwid, ac yna fe wnaeth dorri'r grant tai 60 y cant, a oedd yn golygu bod landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig yn Lloegr yn cael eu gorfodi naill ai i adeiladu llawer llai o dai ar gyfer rhent cymdeithasol neu lawer iawn mwy o dai ar gyfer rhent fforddiadwy, ac mae hynny wedi arwain at chwalu'r sector rhent cymdeithasol.
Yma yng Nghymru rydym wedi dilyn trywydd gwahanol iawn. Rydym yn adeiladu tai ar gyfer rhent cymdeithasol—sef rhent rhwng 30 y cant a 50 y cant o rent y farchnad, nid 80 y cant o rent y farchnad—ac rydym ar y trywydd iawn i gyflawni ein rhaglen. Nid yw'n llinol; nid oeddem yn disgwyl adeiladu 4,000 ym mhob blwyddyn gan greu cyfanswm o 20,000. Fel y dywedais, mae'n rhaid ichi wneud cyfres gyfan o bethau i ddechrau'r rhaglen honno. Rhaid i chi gofio hefyd, Mark, hyd yn eithaf diweddar, nid oedd awdurdodau lleol â chyfrifon refeniw tai yn cael adeiladu tai cymdeithasol oni bai eu bod yn ad-dalu'r pecyn dyled cyfan. Hynny yw, ar ôl 40 mlynedd o nonsens gan y Ceidwadwyr ar hynny, fe wnaethoch chi newid eich meddwl o'r diwedd, ond mawredd, fe gymerodd amser hir. Mae dinistrio rhent cymdeithasol gan Lywodraeth Thatcher wedi bwrw ei gysgod dros y blynyddoedd, felly os ydych chi am siarad am ystadegau felly, rwy'n hapus iawn i wneud hynny.
4. A wnaiff yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet roi diweddariad am nifer y tai sy'n cael eu hadeiladu yn Nwyrain De Cymru? OQ61232
4. Will the Cabinet Secretary provide an update on the number of houses being built in South Wales East? OQ61232
Yes. We are committed to increasing housing supply, ensuring people have homes that meet their needs now and in the future. In 2022-23, 5,785 new homes were completed in Wales, up 10 per cent on the previous year; 1,450 of those were in Blaenau Gwent, Caerphilly, Merthyr Tydfil, Monmouthshire, Newport or Torfaen.
Rydym wedi ymrwymo i gynyddu'r cyflenwad tai, sicrhau bod gan bobl gartrefi sy'n diwallu eu hanghenion nawr ac yn y dyfodol. Yn 2022-23, cwblhawyd 5,785 o gartrefi newydd yng Nghymru, cynnydd o 10 y cant o'i gymharu â'r flwyddyn flaenorol; roedd 1,450 o'r rheini ym Mlaenau Gwent, Caerffili, Merthyr Tudful, sir Fynwy, Casnewydd neu Dorfaen.
Thank you for that answer, Cabinet Secretary. A planning application to build 300 homes on a greenfield site in Blackwood was actually lodged in 2018. It was rejected by the local authority’s planning committee, and following the developer's decision to appeal the application, it seems to have ping-ponged between the Welsh Government, the High Court and Planning and Environment Decisions Wales. Now, nearly six years have passed and still no decision has sadly been made, leaving the community in limbo, waiting for answers. I’ve raised this issue with you via written questions several times now, Cabinet Secretary, yet I'm still waiting for some clarity. I believe local councils in the area have also raised this matter with you, and have requested meetings, but, unfortunately, they're feeling a little bit fobbed off. So, Cabinet Secretary, it is unacceptable that residents and elected Members are being totally ignored by the Welsh Government and left waiting. They just simply want an answer, Cabinet Secretary, and to be fair to them, they have been waiting patiently for years. So, is there any way we’ll be able to find out today when a decision on this planning application will finally be made? Thank you.
Diolch am eich ateb, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Cafodd cais cynllunio i adeiladu 300 o gartrefi ar safle maes glas yn y Coed Duon ei gyflwyno yn 2018. Cafodd ei wrthod gan bwyllgor cynllunio'r awdurdod lleol, ac yn dilyn penderfyniad y datblygwr i apelio yn erbyn y cais, mae'n ymddangos ei fod wedi ei daflu yn ôl ac ymlaen rhwng Llywodraeth Cymru, yr Uchel Lys a Phenderfyniadau Cynllunio ac Amgylchedd Cymru. Nawr, mae bron i chwe blynedd wedi mynd heibio ac nid oes penderfyniad wedi'i wneud, gan adael y gymuned mewn limbo, yn aros am atebion. Rwyf wedi codi'r mater hwn gyda chi drwy gwestiynau ysgrifenedig sawl gwaith nawr, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, ond rwy'n dal i aros am eglurder. Rwy'n credu bod cynghorau lleol yn yr ardal hefyd wedi codi'r mater hwn gyda chi, ac wedi gofyn am gyfarfodydd, ond yn anffodus, maent yn teimlo eu bod yn cael eu hesgeuluso braidd. Felly, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, mae'n annerbyniol fod trigolion ac Aelodau etholedig yn cael eu hanwybyddu'n llwyr gan Lywodraeth Cymru ac yn cael eu cadw i aros. Maent eisiau ateb, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, ac i fod yn deg â nhw, maent wedi bod yn aros yn amyneddgar ers blynyddoedd. Felly, a oes unrhyw ffordd y gallwn ni ddarganfod heddiw pryd y bydd penderfyniad ar y cais cynllunio hwn yn cael ei wneud o'r diwedd? Diolch.
I can't comment on ongoing planning applications, obviously, but on the planning application you're talking about, it's actually a redetermined, recovered appeal, and it's being actively considered by officials. The decision will be made when it's right to do so. I place much more importance on getting the decision right than getting it speedily. It has taken a very long time; it’s a very complicated matter. Of course, as soon the decision is made, we’ll communicate with all of the Members who’ve written in about it.
Ni allaf wneud sylwadau ar geisiadau cynllunio sydd ar y gweill, yn amlwg, ond ar y cais cynllunio rydych chi'n sôn amdano, mae'n apêl a adferwyd ar gyfer ailbenderfyniad, ac mae wrthi'n cael ei ystyried gan swyddogion. Bydd y penderfyniad yn cael ei wneud pan fydd hi'n iawn i wneud hynny. Rwy'n rhoi llawer mwy o bwyslais ar gael y penderfyniad yn iawn na'i gael yn gyflym. Mae wedi cymryd amser hir iawn; mae'n fater cymhleth iawn. Wrth gwrs, cyn gynted ag y gwneir y penderfyniad, byddwn yn cyfathrebu â'r holl Aelodau sydd wedi ysgrifennu atom yn ei gylch.
5. Beth mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i helpu i adfywio canol trefi yn Sir Benfro? OQ61223
5. What is the Welsh Government doing to help regenerate town centres in Pembrokeshire? OQ61223
Diolch, Paul. Since January 2020 we have awarded almost £16 million of funding through our Transforming Towns programme to support regeneration projects in town centres across Pembrokeshire. This support is being driven by placemaking plans for each settlement.
Diolch, Paul. Ers mis Ionawr 2020 rydym wedi dyfarnu bron i £16 miliwn o gyllid drwy ein rhaglen Trawsnewid Trefi i gefnogi prosiectau adfywio canol trefi ledled sir Benfro. Mae'r cymorth hwn yn cael ei yrru gan gynlluniau creu lleoedd ar gyfer pob lleoliad.
Cabinet Secretary, I listened very carefully to your earlier responses regarding towns and town centres, and I'm sure we are all concerned about the decreasing number of shops in town centres like Haverfordwest, which, coupled with bank closures, is having a real impact on the vibrancy of towns like Haverfordwest. Now, I appreciate that the way in which we shop and bank has changed over the years, but it's vital that efforts are made to regenerate our town centres so that they can actually play a role in developing cohesive communities in the future. Therefore, can you tell us what the Welsh Government is doing to make high streets an attractive prospect for businesses and can you also tell us what discussions you're having with the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language about the regeneration of town centres in Pembrokeshire?
Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, gwrandawais yn ofalus iawn ar eich ymatebion cynharach ynghylch trefi a chanol trefi, ac rwy'n siŵr ein bod i gyd yn pryderu am y gostyngiad yn nifer y siopau yng nghanol trefi fel Hwlffordd, sydd, ynghyd â chau banciau, yn cael effaith wirioneddol ar fywiogrwydd trefi fel Hwlffordd. Nawr, rwy'n derbyn bod y ffordd rydym yn siopa ac yn bancio wedi newid dros y blynyddoedd, ond mae'n hanfodol fod ymdrechion yn cael eu gwneud i adfywio canol ein trefi fel y gallant chwarae rhan wrth ddatblygu cymunedau cydgysylltiedig yn y dyfodol. Felly, a allwch chi ddweud wrthym beth mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i wneud y stryd fawr yn gynnig deniadol i fusnesau ac a allwch chi ddweud wrthym hefyd pa drafodaethau rydych chi'n eu cael gydag Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros yr Economi, Ynni a'r Gymraeg ynghylch adfywio canol trefi yn sir Benfro?
Yes, certainly, Paul. So, in Pembrokeshire itself, we're helping Pembrokeshire put together something called placemaking plans. They're bringing forward placemaking plans for specific settlements across Pembrokeshire, and that includes Haverfordwest, Milford Haven, Fishguard, Goodick, for example. So, they have very specific plans for each one, and in response to a number of questions today, I've talked about the need to have those specific plans, because we want individual towns with individual plans and individual characters. We know that that's what attracts people to them, and it's very important to have the right fit for that town and to help that town come to terms with the new reality of how people shop, bank and so on, and to make sure that there are destination places where people want to come together and have coffee or whatever it is they want to do, but then they can have the opportunity to take in a local retail experience and other things.
So, we do provide small grants of up to £250,000 for small-scale regeneration projects, specifically for smaller town centres and regional or sub-city town centres as well. We are trying very hard to work with the local authority to make sure that we don't have a one-size-fits-all approach and we do have a very local flavour to what those placemaking plans look like. So, I'd very much hope that you're involved in that. If you're not, do let me know and I'll make sure that you are involved in that. I think it is very important that local democratic representatives do have a say in that and are able to represent their constituencies in making those plans, because I think it's in all of our interests to make sure that we have the best offer in those small town centres to make sure that we can attract the footfall back.
Yn sicr, Paul. Felly, yn sir Benfro ei hun, rydym yn helpu sir Benfro i lunio rhywbeth o'r enw cynlluniau creu lleoedd. Maent yn cyflwyno cynlluniau creu lleoedd ar gyfer lleoliadau penodol ledled sir Benfro, ac mae hynny'n cynnwys Hwlffordd, Aberdaugleddau, Abergwaun, Wdig, er enghraifft. Felly, mae ganddynt gynlluniau penodol iawn ar gyfer pob un, ac mewn ymateb i nifer o gwestiynau heddiw, rwyf wedi siarad am yr angen i gael y cynlluniau penodol hynny, oherwydd rydym eisiau trefi unigol gyda chynlluniau unigol a chymeriad unigol. Rydym yn gwybod mai dyna sy'n denu pobl atynt, ac mae'n bwysig iawn cael yr hyn sy'n addas ar gyfer y dref honno a helpu'r dref honno i ddod i delerau â realiti newydd y ffordd y mae pobl yn siopa, bancio ac ati, ac i wneud yn siŵr fod yna gyrchfannau lle mae pobl eisiau dod at ei gilydd a chael coffi neu beth bynnag maent am ei wneud, ond wedyn gallant gael cyfle i gael profiad manwerthu lleol a phethau eraill.
Felly, rydym yn darparu grantiau bach o hyd at £250,000 ar gyfer prosiectau adfywio ar raddfa fach, yn benodol ar gyfer canol trefi llai a chanol trefi rhanbarthol neu is-ddinesig hefyd. Rydym yn ymdrechu'n galed iawn i weithio gyda'r awdurdod lleol i sicrhau nad dull un maint i bawb sydd gennym a bod gennym flas lleol iawn ar y cynlluniau creu lleoedd hynny. Felly, rwy'n gobeithio'n fawr y byddwch chi'n rhan o hynny. Os nad ydych chi, rhowch wybod i mi ac fe wnaf yn siŵr eich bod yn rhan o hynny. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig iawn fod cynrychiolwyr democrataidd lleol yn cael dweud eu dweud yn hynny ac yn gallu cynrychioli eu hetholaethau wrth wneud y cynlluniau hynny, oherwydd rwy'n credu ei bod o fudd i bawb ohonom sicrhau bod gennym y cynnig gorau ar gyfer y canol trefi bach hyn i sicrhau y gallwn ddenu'r ymwelwyr yn ôl.
6. Pa asesiad y mae’r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet wedi'i wneud o'r heriau sy'n wynebu cyllidebau awdurdodau lleol? OQ61244
6. What assessment has the Cabinet Secretary made of the challenges facing local authority budgets? OQ61244
Diolch, Peter. Service demand and cost inflation have meant that authorities have made difficult decisions on services and council tax in setting their budgets. Our own budget position has meant we have not been able to meet all the pressures local authorities face, but I am meeting regularly with the leaders of local authorities to agree an agenda for discussing the particular challenges.
Diolch, Peter. Mae'r galw am wasanaethau a chwyddiant costau wedi golygu bod awdurdodau wedi gwneud penderfyniadau anodd am wasanaethau a'r dreth gyngor wrth bennu eu cyllidebau. Mae ein sefyllfa gyllidebol ein hunain wedi golygu nad ydym wedi gallu bodloni'r holl ofynion y mae awdurdodau lleol yn eu hwynebu, ond rwy'n cyfarfod yn rheolaidd ag arweinwyr awdurdodau lleol i gytuno ar agenda ar gyfer trafod yr heriau penodol.
Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. Times are certainly difficult for local government. Not only is money tight, as we've both said, public expectation and demographic need continue to grow. We can't ignore the election discourse, and whilst individual Cabinet Secretaries will need to address their portfolio areas, you will have an overview of the finance resource needed across local government. With that in mind, Cabinet Secretary, what forward planning are you doing with the Cabinet Secretaries for both finance and education on preparing for any influx of children from the private education sector seeking state school education due to value added tax on school fees, should we see a Labour UK Government following the general election?
Diolch, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Yn sicr, mae'n adeg anodd i lywodraeth leol. Mae arian yn dynn, fel y mae'r ddau ohonom wedi dweud, ac mae disgwyliadau cyhoeddus ac angen demograffig yn parhau i dyfu hefyd. Ni allwn anwybyddu'r drafodaeth etholiadol, ac er y bydd angen i Ysgrifenyddion Cabinet unigol fynd i'r afael â'u meysydd portffolio, bydd gennych drosolwg o'r adnodd cyllid sydd ei angen ar draws llywodraeth leol. Gyda hynny mewn golwg, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, pa flaengynllunio rydych chi'n ei wneud gydag Ysgrifenyddion y Cabinet ar gyfer cyllid ac addysg ar baratoi ar gyfer unrhyw fewnlifiad o blant o'r sector addysg breifat sydd eisiau addysg yn ysgolion y wladwriaeth oherwydd treth ar werth ar ffioedd ysgol os cawn Lywodraeth Lafur yn y DU yn dilyn yr etholiad cyffredinol?
I discuss various matters with my Cabinet Secretary colleagues all the time, Peter. I'm very addicted to listening to the Today programme on Radio 4 in the morning; it's perhaps an overshare, but I'm not a morning person at all, I do not like waking up early and I put it on because it irritates me so badly it wakes me up nicely. [Laughter.] This morning, it was followed immediately by a programme called You and Yours, which goes through a fact-finding issue, debunking various claims made by various candidates. As it happens, that was the one they were debunking this morning, where they said there was very little evidence indeed that there would be any such effect of such a policy, and, in fact, they thought the policy would have almost no effect on school sizes. So, I'm just quoting it back to you.
Of course, in discussing things with my Cabinet Secretary colleague, we always take into account trends that we think will have an effect on demographics and school class sizes, for example. Actually, of course, in many parts of Wales, it would be very welcome to have increasing numbers, because we really struggle to keep some of our schools open, schools that are quite beloved to the local population. It's just a coincidence that just this morning that came up as part of one of the election fact-finding things.
Rwy'n trafod materion amrywiol gyda fy nghyd-Ysgrifenyddion Cabinet drwy'r amser, Peter. Rwy'n gaeth iawn i wrando ar raglen Today ar Radio 4 yn y bore; rwy'n rhannu gormod o bosibl, ond nid wyf yn berson bore o gwbl, nid wyf yn hoffi deffro'n gynnar ac rwy'n gwrando arno am ei fod yn fy ngwylltio cymaint nes ei fod yn fy neffro'n dda. [Chwerthin.] Bore yma, fe'i dilynwyd yn syth gan raglen o'r enw You and Yours, sy'n canfod ffeithiau am fater, gan ddatrys honiadau amrywiol a wnaed gan amrywiol ymgeiswyr. Fel mae'n digwydd, dyna'r un roeddent yn ei chwalu y bore yma, lle roeddent yn dweud mai ychydig iawn o dystiolaeth oedd yna y byddai unrhyw effaith o'r fath ar bolisi o'r fath, ac mewn gwirionedd, roeddent yn meddwl na fyddai'r polisi yn cael bron ddim effaith ar faint ysgolion. Felly, rwy'n dyfynnu hynny yn ôl i chi.
Wrth gwrs, wrth drafod pethau gyda fy nghyd-Ysgrifennydd Cabinet, rydym bob amser yn ystyried tueddiadau y credwn y byddant yn effeithio ar ddemograffeg a maint dosbarthiadau ysgol, er enghraifft. A dweud y gwir, mewn sawl rhan o Gymru, byddai croeso mawr i gael niferoedd cynyddol, oherwydd rydym yn cael trafferth cadw rhai o'n hysgolion ar agor, ysgolion sy'n annwyl i'r boblogaeth leol. Cyd-ddigwyddiad yw hi mai y bore yma y cododd hynny fel rhan o un o bethau darganfod ffeithiau'r etholiad.
7. All wnaiff yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet roi diweddariad ar y cynnydd wrth geisio cyrraedd nod y Llywodraeth i godi 20,000 o dai cymdeithasol ar gyfer y sector rhentu erbyn diwedd y Senedd hon? OQ61245
7. Will the Cabinet Secretary provide an update on progress in terms of reaching the Government’s target of delivering 20,000 homes for social rent by the end of this Senedd? OQ61245
Diolch, Llyr. The target to deliver 20,000 homes for rent in the social sector is extremely challenging. Nevertheless, we are committed to delivering more homes to meet people’s needs now and in the future. We have got record levels of investment already committed to the social housing grant in this Senedd term, with a view to ensuring that we do make the target, if at all possible.
Diolch, Llyr. Mae'r targed o ddarparu 20,000 o gartrefi i'w gosod ar rent yn y sector cymdeithasol yn hynod heriol. Serch hynny, rydym wedi ymrwymo i ddarparu mwy o gartrefi i ddiwallu anghenion pobl nawr ac yn y dyfodol. Mae gennym y lefelau uchaf erioed o fuddsoddiad eisoes wedi'i ymrwymo i'r grant tai cymdeithasol yn ystod tymor y Senedd hon, gyda'r bwriad o sicrhau ein bod yn cyrraedd y targed, os yw'n bosibl.
Well, you say it's extremely challenging this month. In April you said, I think, to the Senedd that you were hanging on by the skin of your teeth to the target. Now, let's be honest, I think by now it's maybe unlikely that you will meet that target. Indeed, according to the latest update provided, you've delivered an average of just under 2,900 units per year during this term. And on that trajectory, you will fall significantly short—about 25 per cent short—of your target. Now, we know that there are 90,000 households on housing waiting lists in Wales, and it seems, maybe, that they will now be the subject of another missed target by this Government.
Now, your party also says that, on a UK level, you aim to build 1.5 million homes over the next five years, 40 per cent of which will be affordable housing. Why should people believe such a promise when your record in Wales tells a very different story?
Wel, rydych chi'n dweud ei bod hi'n hynod o heriol y mis hwn. Ym mis Ebrill, rwy'n credu eich bod wedi dweud wrth y Senedd eich bod chi'n cyrraedd y targed o drwch asgell gwybedyn. Nawr, gadewch inni fod yn onest, rwy'n credu erbyn hyn ei bod hi'n annhebygol y byddwch chi'n cyrraedd y targed hwnnw. Yn wir, yn ôl y diweddariad diweddaraf a ddarparwyd, rydych chi wedi darparu cyfartaledd o ychydig o dan 2,900 o unedau y flwyddyn yn ystod y tymor hwn. Ac ar y trywydd hwnnw, fe fyddwch chi gryn dipyn yn brin—tua 25 y cant yn brin—o'ch targed. Nawr, fe wyddom fod 90,000 o aelwydydd ar restrau aros am dai yng Nghymru, ac mae'n ymddangos efallai y byddant yn destun targed arall a fethwyd gan y Llywodraeth hon.
Nawr, mae eich plaid chi hefyd yn dweud eich bod chi, ar lefel y DU, yn anelu at adeiladu 1.5 miliwn o gartrefi dros y pum mlynedd nesaf, gyda 40 y cant ohonynt yn dai fforddiadwy. Pam y dylai pobl gredu'r fath addewid pan fo'ch record yng Nghymru yn adrodd stori wahanol iawn?
Well, I don't think that's quite fair, to be honest. And as I said in answer to an earlier question, we never expected to build 4,000 each year; we always knew that we had to put interventions in in the first place that would accelerate the build, so we do expect to deliver far more in the last two years of this Senedd term than we were able to in the first. I've also said many times in this Senedd that, you know, it's a bit like nobody expects the Spanish inquisition, isn't it? We weren't expecting COVID followed by an inflationary Liz Truss Government and a cost-of-living crisis and all the rest of it. And in all honesty, I did think we would deliver the 20,000 units relatively easily—it wasn't ever easy, but relatively easy—when we set the target back in 2021, and life has very much changed since then.
Nevertheless, we are—no matter which phrase you use—hanging on by the skin of our teeth. It's not impossible to make the target now, it is stretching in the extreme. But I think it's actually very important to have those stretching targets. I don't want to relax that target, I want to push people as hard as possible towards that target. And as I said, we are working now at a really detailed level with local authorities across Wales, right down to, 'What does this site have on it in planning?', 'Where is it in the planning system?', 'What are you doing about bringing it forward?', 'Where's the social housing grant going?', et cetera, just trying to make sure. So, if the units in the planning system are built, we will make the target, but, actually, I think it's just much more important to make sure that we have an ongoing pipeline, because at the end of this Senedd term, we won't suddenly have enough houses. So, whoever is the Government after the next Senedd election will also have to keep up a steady stream of good social houses for rent. So, I think it's important to make sure that we've got that pipeline. And, yes, absolutely, it took us a little while to run up to it; we were coming out of COVID and then we had a whole series of things, not least, for example, I don't know if you'll remember, but the cost of timber worldwide went up astronomically, and we had real problems getting supply for that, and all the rest of it.
So, I take the point you're making, but I'm not prepared to go back on the target yet. I think it's really important to continue to push people to make sure that we get as many of those houses up as possible. And we owe it to the people who are in temporary accommodation across Wales to get those houses up and functional as fast as possible.
Wel, nid wyf yn meddwl bod hynny'n deg, i fod yn onest. Ac fel y dywedais wrth ateb cwestiwn cynharach, nid oeddem yn disgwyl adeiladu 4,000 bob blwyddyn; roeddem bob amser yn gwybod bod yn rhaid inni gyflwyno ymyriadau yn y lle cyntaf a fyddai'n cyflymu'r gwaith adeiladu, felly rydym yn disgwyl cyflawni llawer mwy yn ystod y ddwy flynedd olaf o dymor y Senedd hon nag y gallem ei wneud yn y ddwy flynedd gyntaf. Rwyf hefyd wedi dweud droeon yn y Senedd hon, wyddoch chi, ei fod ychydig fel bod neb yn disgwyl y chwilys Sbaenaidd, onid yw? Nid oeddem yn disgwyl COVID, wedi'i ddilyn gan Lywodraeth chwyddiant Liz Truss ac argyfwng costau byw a'r gweddill i gyd. Ac a bod yn onest, roeddwn i'n meddwl y byddem yn darparu'r 20,000 o unedau'n gymharol hawdd—nid oedd byth yn hawdd, ond yn gymharol hawdd—pan wnaethom osod y targed yn ôl yn 2021, ac mae bywyd wedi newid yn fawr iawn ers hynny.
Serch hynny, rydym yn dal ein gafael—ni waeth pa ymadrodd rydych chi'n ei ddefnyddio—o drwch asgell gwybedyn. Nid yw'n amhosibl cyrraedd y targed nawr, mae'n eithriadol o heriol. Ond rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig iawn cael targedau heriol iawn. Nid wyf am lacio'r targed, rwyf am wthio pobl mor galed â phosibl tuag at y targed hwnnw. Ac fel y dywedais, rydym yn gweithio nawr ar lefel fanwl iawn gydag awdurdodau lleol ledled Cymru, i lawr i 'Beth sydd gan y safle hwn arno yn y cynlluniau?', 'Ble mae arni yn y system gynllunio?', 'Beth ydych chi'n ei wneud ynglŷn â'i gyflwyno?', 'Ble mae'r grant tai cymdeithasol yn mynd?', ac ati, i geisio gwneud yn siŵr. Felly, os yw'r unedau yn y system gynllunio yn cael eu hadeiladu, byddwn yn cyrraedd y targed, ond mewn gwirionedd, credaf ei bod yn bwysicach o lawer sicrhau bod gennym lif parhaus, oherwydd ar ddiwedd tymor y Senedd hon, ni fydd gennym ddigon o dai yn sydyn iawn. Felly, bydd yn rhaid i bwy bynnag yw'r Llywodraeth ar ôl etholiad nesaf y Senedd gadw llif cyson o dai cymdeithasol da i'w gosod ar rent hefyd. Felly, rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig sicrhau bod gennym lif o'r fath. Ac yn hollol, cymerodd ychydig o amser i ni ei gyrraedd; roeddem yn cefnu ar COVID ac yna cawsom gyfres gyfan o bethau, yn anad dim, er enghraifft, nid wyf yn gwybod a fyddwch chi'n cofio, ond fe gododd cost pren ledled y byd i'r entrychion, ac fe gawsom broblemau gwirioneddol wrth gael cyflenwad ar gyfer hynny, a'r cyfan i gyd.
Felly, rwy'n cymryd y pwynt rydych chi'n ei wneud, ond nid wyf yn barod i fynd yn ôl ar y targed eto. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig iawn parhau i wthio pobl i sicrhau ein bod yn codi cymaint o'r tai hynny â phosibl. Ac mae'n ddyletswydd arnom i'r bobl sydd mewn llety dros dro ledled Cymru i gael y tai hynny wedi eu hadeiladu ac yn weithredol cyn gynted â phosibl.
Yn olaf, cwestiwn 8, Heledd Fychan.
Finally, question 8, Heledd Fychan.
8. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i sicrhau mynediad i lyfrgelloedd cyhoeddus ar draws Canol De Cymru? OQ61250
8. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to ensure access to public libraries across South Wales Central? OQ61250
Diolch. Local authorities have a statutory responsibility to provide a comprehensive and efficient library service. The Welsh Government provides funding to support the development of public libraries, including recent investment of over £900,000 for a shared digital library platform, and a capital fund to improve library buildings and facilities. Sorry, I nearly did the same thing to you then, Heledd, because I had the wrong glasses on. [Laughter.]
Diolch. Mae gan awdurdodau lleol gyfrifoldeb statudol i ddarparu gwasanaeth llyfrgell cynhwysfawr ac effeithlon. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn darparu cyllid i gefnogi datblygiad llyfrgelloedd cyhoeddus, gan gynnwys buddsoddiad diweddar o dros £900,000 ar gyfer platfform llyfrgell ddigidol a rennir, a chronfa gyfalaf i wella adeiladau a chyfleusterau llyfrgell. Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, bu bron imi wneud yr un peth i chi, Heledd, am fy mod i'n gwisgo'r sbectol anghywir. [Chwerthin.]
Diolch i chi, Ysgrifennydd Cabinet. Fe fyddwch chi'n ymwybodol bod gwasanaethau llyfrgelloedd wedi crebachu oherwydd y pwysau ar gyllidebau llywodraeth leol, ond mae'r angen am lyfrgelloedd mor amlwg ag erioed, wrth iddynt esblygu ac ymestyn darpariaeth fel hybiau cymunedol. Dan Ddeddf Llyfrgelloedd Cyhoeddus ac Amgueddfeydd 1964, mae dyletswydd arnoch chi yn bersonol i arolygu a hyrwyddo gwella'r gwasanaeth llyfrgelloedd cyhoeddus a ddarperir gan awdurdodau lleol. Ers 2002 mae Gweinidogion Cymru wedi cyflawni'r ddyletswydd yma drwy fframwaith safonau llyfrgelloedd cyhoeddus Cymru. Daeth y chweched fframwaith, sy'n gysylltiedig â hyn, i ben yn 2020 ac fe'i hymestynnwyd am ddwy flynedd oherwydd y pandemig. Allwch chi amlinellu sut y mae'r gwaith ar y seithfed fframwaith yn mynd rhagddo a phryd y bydd yn cael ei gyhoeddi?
Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. You will be aware that library services have shrunk because of the pressure on local government budgets, but the need for libraries is as apparent as ever, as they evolve and extend provision as community hubs. Under the Public Libraries and Museums Act 1964, you have a duty, personally, to inspect and promote the improvement of the public library service provided by local authorities. Since 2002 Welsh Ministers have fulfilled this duty through the Welsh public libraries standards framework. The sixth framework associated with this ended in 2020 and it was extended for two years due to the pandemic. Can you outline how the work on the seventh framework is progressing and when it will be published?
Thank you, Heledd. I don't have that specific detail, but I'm quite happy to write to you with it. But it is the responsibility of local authorities to provide, exactly as you say, a comprehensive service under the Public Libraries and Museums Act 1964. We've provided a 3.3 per cent increase to the local authority settlement in the last year to try and make sure that they have enough money for these very vital services. I completely agree with you: these are vital, not just for the library service, if you like, but, actually, they're often a community hub, a meeting place, a place for story-telling for children, and all the rest of it.
I think the shared digital platform will be very, very useful, so that all libraries across Wales can have access to that and can order books from elsewhere and so on. That will assist local libraries to be of very much more help to their local populations. And we've just provided £41,000 to support two regional inter-library loan schemes in 2024-25, including one that covers South Wales Central. So, I hope that we are doing our bit to try and shore them up. But the bottom line is that there isn't enough money in public services and we need to make sure that we get better funding for public services.
Libraries are one of those support services that shore up the education system, they shore up the public health system; they are fundamental building blocks to civilised society, aren't they? I certainly grew up going, every week, to the library with my mum and I remember those days with great pleasure. So, it's really important that we make sure that that experience is there for others. I don't have on me the specific answer to your question, but I'll make sure that you get the answer to that. But I just want to reassure you that we are very keen to make sure that all the citizens of Wales can access a library service in one form or another and to make sure that that's as accessible as possible.
Diolch yn fawr, Heledd. Nid oes gennyf y manylion penodol hynny, ond rwy'n eithaf hapus i ysgrifennu atoch gyda nhw. Ond fel y dywedwch, cyfrifoldeb awdurdodau lleol yw darparu gwasanaeth cynhwysfawr o dan Ddeddf Llyfrgelloedd Cyhoeddus ac Amgueddfeydd 1964. Rydym wedi darparu cynnydd o 3.3 y cant i setliad yr awdurdod lleol yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf i geisio sicrhau bod ganddynt ddigon o arian ar gyfer y gwasanaethau hanfodol hyn. Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â chi: mae'r rhain yn hanfodol, nid yn unig ar gyfer y gwasanaeth llyfrgell, os mynnwch, ond mewn gwirionedd, maent yn aml yn ganolfan gymunedol, yn fan cyfarfod, yn lle i adrodd straeon i blant, ac yn y blaen.
Rwy'n credu y bydd y platfform digidol a rennir yn ddefnyddiol iawn, fel y bydd pob llyfrgell ledled Cymru yn gallu cael mynediad at hwnnw ac yn gallu archebu llyfrau o fannau eraill ac yn y blaen. Bydd hynny'n helpu llyfrgelloedd lleol i fod o fwy o gymorth i'w poblogaethau lleol. Ac rydym newydd ddarparu £41,000 i gefnogi dau gynllun benthyciadau rhwng llyfrgelloedd rhanbarthol yn 2024-25, gan gynnwys un sy'n cwmpasu Canol De Cymru. Felly, rwy'n gobeithio ein bod yn gwneud ein rhan i geisio eu cynnal. Ond y gwir amdani yw nad oes digon o arian mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus ac mae angen inni sicrhau ein bod yn cael gwell cyllid ar gyfer gwasanaethau cyhoeddus.
Mae llyfrgelloedd yn un o'r gwasanaethau cymorth sy'n cynnal y system addysg, maent yn gwella'r system iechyd cyhoeddus; maent yn flociau adeiladu sylfaenol i gymdeithas wâr, onid ydynt? Yn sicr, wrth imi dyfu i fyny, roeddwn i'n mynd i'r llyfrgell bob wythnos gyda fy mam ac rwy'n cofio'r dyddiau hynny gyda phleser mawr. Felly, mae'n bwysig iawn ein bod yn sicrhau bod plant eraill yn cael y profiad hwnnw. Nid oes gennyf ateb penodol i'ch cwestiwn ar hyn o bryd, ond byddaf yn sicrhau eich bod yn cael yr ateb iddo. Ond hoffwn eich sicrhau ein bod yn awyddus iawn i wneud yn siŵr y gall holl ddinasyddion Cymru gael mynediad at wasanaeth llyfrgell ar ryw ffurf neu'i gilydd a sicrhau bod hwnnw mor hygyrch â phosibl.
Diolch i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet.
Thank you, Cabinet Secretary.
Y cwestiynau i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Addysg sydd nesaf, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Siân Gwenllian.
We'll move now to questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Education, and the first question is from Siân Gwenllian.
1. Sut y mae’r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet yn gweithio gyda’r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet dros Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol i wireddu'r agweddau ar y Cynllun Strategol ar gyfer y Gweithlu Deintyddol a gyhoeddwyd gan Addysg a Gwella Iechyd Cymru yn ddiweddar sy'n ymwneud ag addysg uwch? OQ61238
1. How is the Cabinet Secretary working with the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care to realise the aspects of the Dental Strategic Workforce Plan recently published by Health Education and Improvement Wales that relate to higher education? OQ61238
I welcome the commitments within the dental strategic workforce plan relating to higher education, such as increasing BSc dental therapy placements and commissioning a level 5 to 6 conversion programme. These will be led by HEIW and I will seek updates on progress against the commitments.
Rwy'n croesawu'r ymrwymiadau yn y cynllun gweithlu strategol ar gyfer deintyddiaeth sy'n ymwneud ag addysg uwch, megis cynyddu nifer y lleoliadau therapi deintyddol BSc a chomisiynu rhaglen gyfnewid lefel 5 i 6. Bydd y rhain yn cael eu harwain gan AaGIC a byddaf yn gofyn am ddiweddariadau ar gynnydd ar yr ymrwymiadau.
Rydym ni'n gwybod bod mwy o fyfyrwyr o Gymru yn mynd allan o Gymru i astudio cyrsiau deintyddiaeth is-raddedig mewn prifysgolion nag sy'n aros yma—20 yn aros yng Nghymru a 40 yn mynd allan, yn ôl y ffigurau diweddaraf. Ydych chi yn derbyn nad yw hynny'n synhwyrol nag yn gynaliadwy ar ôl buddsoddi yn ein pobl ifanc drwy'r gyfundrefn addysg, yn enwedig pan fo yna gymaint o angen am weithlu deintyddol yng Nghymru? Does yna ddim llawer o eglurder yn y cynllun newydd am faint o lefydd prifysgol ychwanegol sy'n arwain at gymhwyso fel deintydd sydd yn cael eu creu. Rydych chi'n capio'r niferoedd presennol ar tua 75, yn ôl data'r Swyddfa Myfyrwyr. A fedrwch chi roi eglurder i ni am faint yn fwy o lefydd fydd yna yn sgil cyhoeddi'r cynllun strategol ar gyfer y gweithlu deintyddol?
We know that more students from Wales are going outside Wales to study undergraduate dentistry courses at university than those who stay here—20 stay in Wales and 40 go outside Wales, according to the latest figures. Do you accept that this is neither sensible nor sustainable after investing in our young people through the education system, especially when there is such a need for dental workforce in Wales? There is not much clarity in the new plan regarding how many additional university places leading to qualification as a dentist will be created. You are capping the current numbers at around 75, according to data from the Office for Students. Could you give us some clarity regarding how many more places there will be as a result of the publication of the strategic plan for the dental workforce?
Can I thank Siân Gwenllian for that supplementary and assure her that Welsh Ministers are fully committed to increasing training places for all members of the dental team, but this is of course very difficult to achieve in the current financial climate? Nevertheless, we are talking to existing and potential new dental training providers to identify all potential options, and I know that the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care is going to be providing an update to the Health and Social Care Committee before summer recess.
I can also confirm that conversations have taken place, at both ministerial and official levels, with Bangor University regarding the ambition to establish a dental school in north Wales. And officials are talking to other interested parties as well to identify the best option for increasing dental training capacity. The Welsh Government is also exploring options to create outreach placements in the north Wales area for fifth-year dental students studying at Cardiff dental school.
A gaf i ddiolch i Siân Gwenllian am y cwestiwn atodol hwnnw a'i sicrhau bod Gweinidogion Cymru wedi ymrwymo'n llwyr i gynyddu lleoedd hyfforddi ar gyfer holl aelodau'r tîm deintyddol, ond mae hyn wrth gwrs yn anodd iawn i'w gyflawni yn yr hinsawdd ariannol bresennol? Serch hynny, rydym yn siarad â darparwyr hyfforddiant deintyddol presennol a newydd i nodi'r holl opsiynau posibl, a gwn y bydd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol yn rhoi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol cyn toriad yr haf.
Gallaf gadarnhau hefyd fod sgyrsiau wedi digwydd, ar lefelau gweinidogol a swyddogol, gyda Phrifysgol Bangor ynghylch yr uchelgais i sefydlu ysgol ddeintyddol yng ngogledd Cymru. Ac mae swyddogion yn siarad â phartïon eraill sydd â diddordeb hefyd i nodi'r opsiwn gorau ar gyfer cynyddu capasiti hyfforddiant deintyddol. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru hefyd yn archwilio opsiynau i greu lleoliadau allgymorth yn ardal gogledd Cymru ar gyfer myfyrwyr deintyddol yn eu pumed flwyddyn sy'n astudio yn ysgol ddeintyddol Caerdydd.
Cabinet Secretary, you may have heard me raise issues around the difficulties of attracting dentists to come and work in mid Wales with some of your Cabinet colleagues. Now, I read with interest a HEIW report that alluded to the fact that, when graduates and students have been exposed to working in rural areas, or where they've lived in rural areas, and they've been raised and brought up in that area, or where they've been exposed to working in rural areas through the course of their training, there's a fourfold more chance that they'll then be willing and happy to come and work in a rural area following their training. So, with that in mind, Cabinet Secretary, what work has the Welsh Government done, and is doing, to actively encourage younger people from rural areas to see dentistry as a positive choice option for them, and encourage them to pursue that career?
Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, efallai eich bod wedi fy nghlywed yn trafod yr anawsterau o ddenu deintyddion i ddod i weithio yng nghanolbarth Cymru gyda rhai o'ch cyd-Aelodau yn y Cabinet. Nawr, darllenais adroddiad AaGIC a oedd yn cyfeirio at y ffaith, pan fo graddedigion a myfyrwyr wedi gweithio mewn ardaloedd gwledig, neu lle maent wedi byw mewn ardaloedd gwledig, a lle maent wedi'u magu yn yr ardal honno, neu lle maent wedi gweithio mewn ardaloedd gwledig yn ystod eu hyfforddiant, maent bedair gwaith yn fwy tebygol o fod yn barod ac yn hapus i ddod i weithio mewn ardal wledig yn dilyn eu hyfforddiant. Felly, gyda hynny mewn golwg, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, pa waith y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i wneud, ac yn ei wneud, i annog pobl iau o ardaloedd gwledig i ystyried deintyddiaeth fel dewis gyrfa cadarnhaol, a'u hannog i ddilyn yr yrfa honno?
Thank you very much, Russell. I want all our young people, from wherever they live in Wales, to have the opportunity to pursue the courses that they're interested in. You will be aware that, at the moment, we have the one dental school, which can mean that the people who train there are more likely to work there. So, I take on board what you've said about the challenges of getting people into rural areas. You heard my answer to Siân Gwenllian just now about the work that's going on for placements in north Wales. I know that Aberystwyth University also has an interest in this area. So, I will pick up what you've raised about dentists in rural areas. I know that dentistry has been a constant issue that you've raised, both with my officials and with the Minister for Health and Social Care.
Diolch yn fawr, Russell. Rwyf eisiau i'n holl bobl ifanc, ni waeth lle maent yn byw yng Nghymru, gael cyfle i ddilyn y cyrsiau y mae ganddynt ddiddordeb ynddynt. Fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol, ar hyn o bryd, fod gennym un ysgol ddeintyddol, a all olygu bod y bobl sy'n hyfforddi yno yn fwy tebygol o weithio yno. Felly, rwy'n ystyried yr hyn rydych chi wedi'i ddweud am yr heriau o ddenu pobl i ardaloedd gwledig. Fe glywsoch chi fy ateb i Siân Gwenllian nawr am y gwaith sy'n mynd rhagddo mewn perthynas â lleoliadau yng ngogledd Cymru. Gwn fod gan Brifysgol Aberystwyth ddiddordeb yn y maes hwn hefyd. Felly, byddaf yn mynd ar drywydd yr hyn rydych chi wedi'i ddweud am ddeintyddion mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Rwy'n gwybod eich bod wedi codi'r mater hwn yn gyson, gyda fy swyddogion a chyda'r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol.
2. A wnaiff yr Ysgrifenydd Cabinet ddatganiad am gyllid ar gyfer adnewyddu ysgolion yn Aberconwy? OQ61227
2. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on funding for school refurbishment in Aberconwy? OQ61227
Our sustainable communities for learning programme is currently transitioning to our new rolling programme. Conwy County Borough Council has submitted their nine-year investment plan, which is currently being reviewed by officials, and I'm expecting to receive advice in July.
Mae ein rhaglen cymunedau cynaliadwy ar gyfer dysgu yn trawsnewid i'n rhaglen dreigl newydd ar hyn o bryd. Mae Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Conwy wedi cyflwyno eu cynllun buddsoddi naw mlynedd, sy'n cael ei adolygu gan swyddogion ar hyn o bryd, ac rwy'n disgwyl cael cyngor ym mis Gorffennaf.
Thank you, Minister. The reason I raise this is, at the start of the twenty-first century schools model, it's fair to say, under Kirsty Williams, that we managed to get a brand-new school. And it's fantastic to have one in your own constituency—a brand-new primary school. Sadly, though, we have a number of primary schools where they're in such disrepair I'm now starting to feel sorry for the pupils attending there. Issues have been raised with me by schools themselves in terms of procurement. When they want to pay some money towards having some refurbishment done, I've been told it's over-bureaucratic, more expensive than if they were to actually just get somebody in to do the works. Is there a chance, Minister, that you could have a look at how school refurbishments are funded, and how then the works are procured? And the final part to my question is that I've been asked by numerous primary school headteachers in my constituency—they've got lots of roofs that are fine, that they want solar panels on, and they've tried and tried and tried to engage with having solar panels, providing energy for their schools, and they just come to a stalemate situation. Could you look into those aspects, please?
Diolch yn fawr, Weinidog. Y rheswm pam rwy'n codi hyn yw ein bod wedi llwyddo, ar ddechrau model ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain o dan Kirsty Williams, mae'n deg dweud, i gael ysgol newydd sbon. Ac mae'n wych cael un yn eich etholaeth eich hun—ysgol gynradd newydd sbon. Yn anffodus, fodd bynnag, mae gennym nifer o ysgolion cynradd sydd mewn cyflwr mor wael nes fy mod yn dechrau teimlo dros y disgyblion sy'n eu mynychu. Mae'r ysgolion eu hunain wedi codi problemau gyda mi o ran caffael. Pan fyddant eisiau talu rhywfaint o arian tuag at wneud gwaith adnewyddu, dywedwyd wrthyf ei fod yn or-fiwrocrataidd, ac yn ddrutach na phe baent yn cael rhywun i mewn i wneud y gwaith mewn gwirionedd. Weinidog, a fyddai'n bosibl i chi gael golwg ar sut mae gwaith adnewyddu yn cael ei ariannu mewn ysgolion, a sut felly mae'r gwaith yn cael ei gaffael? Ac mae rhan olaf fy nghwestiwn yn ymwneud â'r ffaith bod nifer o benaethiaid ysgolion cynradd yn fy etholaeth wedi gofyn i mi—mae ganddynt lawer o doeau sy'n iawn, ac maent eisiau gosod paneli solar arnynt, ac maent wedi ceisio cael paneli solar dro ar ôl tro er mwyn darparu ynni i'w hysgolion, ond nid ydynt yn gallu symud ymlaen. A allwch chi edrych ar y materion hynny, os gwelwch yn dda?
Thank you, Janet, for that supplementary, and thank you for your recognition of the fact that you have benefited in your constituency from our very significant investment in capital in Wales. Conwy has actually benefited from £41.8 million of investment in schools since the sustainable communities for learning programme began in 2014, and that's through not just the sustainable communities investment, but also associated grant streams, such as repairs and maintenance, universal free school meals capital grant and community-focused schools. In terms of repairs, since 2017, the local authority has received £8.87 million specifically for capital repair and maintenance of the school estate. So, I'm sure that you would agree with me that those are substantial sums of money. You'll be aware that, if local authorities are applying for funding from Welsh Government, there is a process to be gone through to make sure there is due diligence around the allocation of the funding.
I'm not sure why individual schools would have difficulties procuring refurbishments and things like that, but if you would like to write to me about that—. Obviously, taking forward how the money is spent is a matter for local authorities and schools, but if you would like to write to me about those concerns I'd be very happy to look at them.
Diolch am y cwestiwn atodol, Janet, a diolch i chi am eich cydnabyddiaeth o'r ffaith eich bod chi yn eich etholaeth wedi elwa o'n buddsoddiad cyfalaf sylweddol iawn yng Nghymru. Mae Conwy wedi elwa o fuddsoddiad o £41.8 miliwn mewn ysgolion ers i'r rhaglen cymunedau cynaliadwy ar gyfer dysgu ddechrau yn 2014, nid yn unig drwy fuddsoddiad mewn cymunedau cynaliadwy, ond hefyd mewn ffrydiau grant cysylltiedig, megis atgyweiriadau a gwaith cynnal a chadw, grant cyfalaf prydau ysgol am ddim i bawb ac ysgolion bro. O ran gwaith atgyweirio, ers 2017, mae'r awdurdod lleol wedi derbyn £8.87 miliwn yn benodol ar gyfer cyfalaf cynnal a chadw ac atgyweirio ystad yr ysgol. Felly, rwy'n siŵr y byddech yn cytuno â mi fod y rhain yn symiau sylweddol o arian. Fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol, os yw awdurdodau lleol yn gwneud cais am gyllid gan Lywodraeth Cymru, fod yna broses i'w chwblhau i sicrhau diwydrwydd dyladwy mewn perthynas â dyrannu'r cyllid.
Nid wyf yn siŵr pam y byddai ysgolion unigol yn cael trafferth caffael adnewyddiadau a phethau felly, ond os hoffech chi ysgrifennu ataf mewn perthynas â hynny—. Yn amlwg, mater i awdurdodau lleol ac ysgolion yw bwrw ymlaen â sut mae'r arian yn cael ei wario, ond os hoffech chi ysgrifennu ataf am y pryderon hynny, byddwn yn hapus iawn i edrych arnynt.
Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Tom Giffard.
Questions now from the party spokespeople. Tom Giffard.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd. With a UK general election on the horizon, I thought I'd look up some UK Labour policies and see the impact that they would have on our education sector in Wales. And despite Keir Starmer's best efforts to go through an entire campaign without announcing anything, I did manage to find one. A UK Labour Government would apply VAT to private schools on both sides of the border. Last month, I wrote to you asking what impact this policy would have on Welsh schools. Astonishingly, you told me that, quote:
'The Welsh Government has not commissioned any research in this area.'
End quote. But Keir Starmer says that this policy would be implemented as soon as it can be done, if Labour wins the general election.
Can you provide clarity for parents and schools as to whether it would apply from this coming September? And a month on from me first asking, what impact do you think that this policy would have, and do you accept it would mean some pupils leaving the private school sector and entering state schools?
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Lywydd. Gydag etholiad cyffredinol y DU ar y gorwel, roeddwn i'n meddwl y byddwn i'n edrych ar rai o bolisïau Llafur y DU ac edrych ar yr effaith y byddent yn ei chael ar ein sector addysg yng Nghymru. Ac er gwaethaf ymdrechion gorau Keir Starmer i fynd drwy ymgyrch gyfan heb gyhoeddi unrhyw beth, llwyddais i ddod o hyd i un. Byddai Llywodraeth Lafur y DU yn cymhwyso TAW i ysgolion preifat ar ddwy ochr y ffin. Fis diwethaf, ysgrifennais atoch yn gofyn pa effaith y byddai'r polisi hwn yn ei chael ar ysgolion Cymru. Yn rhyfeddol, fe ddywedoch chi wrthyf:
'Nid yw Llywodraeth Cymru wedi comisiynu unrhyw ymchwil yn y maes hwn.'
Ond dywed Keir Starmer y byddai'r polisi hwn yn cael ei weithredu cyn gynted ag y bo modd, pe bai Llafur yn ennill yr etholiad cyffredinol.
A allwch chi ddweud wrth rieni ac ysgolion a fyddai'n digwydd o fis Medi ymlaen ai peidio? A fis ar ôl imi ofyn gyntaf, pa effaith y credwch chi y byddai'r polisi hwn yn ei chael, ac a ydych chi'n derbyn y byddai'n golygu bod rhai disgyblion yn gadael y sector ysgolion preifat ac yn mynd i ysgolion gwladol?
Well, it's good to see you paying this much attention to the UK Labour Party manifesto. I'm really pleased that we have a party that is committed to campaigning for and investing in education. You will be aware that the plans for VAT are not devolved. They will, of course, impact on us in Wales. You did table the question asking whether we had done any research. Given that we don't actually yet have a Labour Government—although aren't we all just desperate for that Labour Government—I think it would be a little presumptive to commission research on that.
What I can say to you is that officials have been working on it, so we're aware, for example, that there might be particular issues for children who are in additional learning needs placements in primary schools. And we are very mindful of that. That's something I've already discussed with my counterpart, Bridget Phillipson, and, in the happy event that a Labour Government does come to power in the next few weeks, I will, of course, be having discussions with my opposite number on not just how that funding will benefit Wales, but also the actual practical implementation of that policy.
Wel, mae'n dda eich gweld chi'n talu cymaint o sylw â hyn i faniffesto Plaid Lafur y DU. Rwy'n falch iawn fod gennym blaid sydd wedi ymrwymo i ymgyrchu dros addysg a buddsoddi mewn addysg. Fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol nad yw'r cynlluniau ar gyfer TAW wedi'u datganoli. Fe fyddant, wrth gwrs, yn effeithio arnom ni yng Nghymru. Fe wnaethoch chi gyflwyno'r cwestiwn yn gofyn a oeddem ni wedi gwneud unrhyw waith ymchwil. O ystyried y ffaith nad oes gennym Lywodraeth Lafur eto—er ein bod i gyd yn ysu am y Llywodraeth Lafur honno—rwy'n credu y byddai ychydig yn gynnar i gomisiynu gwaith ymchwil ar hynny.
Yr hyn y gallaf ei ddweud wrthych yw bod swyddogion wedi bod yn gweithio arno, felly rydym yn ymwybodol, er enghraifft, y gallai fod problemau penodol i blant sydd mewn lleoliadau anghenion dysgu ychwanegol mewn ysgolion cynradd. Ac rydym yn ymwybodol iawn o hynny. Mae hwnnw'n rhywbeth rwyf eisoes wedi'i drafod gyda Bridget Phillipson, ac os daw Llywodraeth Lafur i rym yn ystod yr wythnosau nesaf, byddaf yn cael trafodaethau gyda fy swyddog cyfatebol, nid yn unig ynglŷn â sut y bydd y cyllid hwnnw o fudd i Gymru, ond hefyd sut y bydd y polisi hwnnw'n cael ei weithredu'n ymarferol.
Well, looking at the results of the Programme for International Student Assessment rankings after 25 years of a Labour Government, I think the worst thing that could happen to an English education system is a Labour Government in Westminster.
Now, as you mentioned, Cabinet Secretary, the worst part of all of this is VAT is not a devolved tax; it's a tax collected by the Treasury rather than one kept by the Welsh Government. And, as you say, the Welsh Government hasn't impact assessed its own policy, which could be coming into place as soon as September if Labour wins that general election. But, never mind, Cabinet Secretary, let me do that impact assessment for you. Let me do the maths. A 2018 report by Baines Cutler Solutions Ltd projected that around 25 per cent of pupils would leave private schools if VAT was applied to them. So, in Wales, the cost per child, per year, in state education is £7,327, and 25 per cent of the number of private school pupils dropping out means 2,460 more pupils being educated in the state sector. Therefore, the total—[Interruption.] People in Blaenau Gwent and across Wales should be incredibly worried about this one, Alun. Therefore, the total cost to Welsh schools, Cabinet Secretary, could mean an £18 million black hole in Welsh school budgets—£18 million.
Cabinet Secretary, does the Welsh Government have an extra £18 million to spend to fill that black hole?
Wel, o edrych ar ganlyniadau'r Rhaglen Ryngwladol Asesu Myfyrwyr ar ôl 25 mlynedd o Lywodraeth Lafur, rwy'n credu mai'r peth gwaethaf a allai ddigwydd i system addysg yn Lloegr yw Llywodraeth Lafur yn San Steffan.
Nawr, fel y sonioch chi, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, y peth gwaethaf am hyn i gyd yw'r ffaith nad yw TAW yn dreth ddatganoledig; mae'n dreth a gesglir gan y Trysorlys yn hytrach nag un a gedwir gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Ac fel y dywedwch, nid yw Llywodraeth Cymru wedi asesu effaith ei pholisi ei hun, a allai fod yn dod i rym cyn gynted â mis Medi os bydd Llafur yn ennill yr etholiad cyffredinol. Ond peidiwch â phoeni, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, gadewch imi gynnal yr asesiad effaith hwnnw ar eich rhan. Gadewch i mi wneud y symiau. Roedd adroddiad gan Baines Cutler Solutions Ltd yn 2018 yn rhagweld y byddai tua 25 y cant o ddisgyblion yn gadael ysgolion preifat pe bai TAW yn cael ei gymhwyso iddynt. Felly, yng Nghymru, mae pob plentyn mewn ysgol wladol yn costio £7,327 y flwyddyn, ac os yw 25 y cant o ddisgyblion ysgolion preifat yn gadael, bydd 2,460 yn rhagor o ddisgyblion yn cael eu haddysgu mewn ysgolion gwladol. Felly, y cyfanswm—[Torri ar draws.] Dylai pobl ym Mlaenau Gwent a ledled Cymru fod yn hynod bryderus am hyn, Alun. Felly, gallai cyfanswm y gost i ysgolion Cymru, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, olygu twll du gwerth £18 miliwn yng nghyllideb ysgolion Cymru—£18 miliwn.
Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, a oes gan Lywodraeth Cymru £18 miliwn ychwanegol i'w wario i lenwi'r twll du hwnnw?
Well, you clearly haven't been paying attention, Tom, because the purpose of this policy is to release much-needed funding to invest in our schools. And we have a pledge in this general election to use that funding to increase recruitment and retention of our teachers. So, I'm not worried about this policy. We will work with an incoming Labour Government on it to make sure that we get the best possible outcomes for children in Wales.
Wel, mae'n amlwg nad ydych wedi bod yn talu sylw, Tom, oherwydd pwrpas y polisi hwn yw rhyddhau cyllid mawr ei angen i fuddsoddi yn ein hysgolion. Ac mae gennym addewid yn yr etholiad cyffredinol i ddefnyddio'r cyllid hwnnw i gynyddu niferoedd yr athrawon rydym yn eu recriwtio a'u cadw. Felly, nid wyf yn poeni am y polisi hwn. Byddwn yn gweithio gyda Llywodraeth Lafur newydd i sicrhau ein bod yn sicrhau'r canlyniadau gorau posibl i blant yng Nghymru.
Well, I'm surprised to see the Cabinet Secretary so relaxed and supporting a policy that could leave Welsh schools £18 million in the red. Now, we know schools are making difficult decisions at the moment with their budgets, with many letting staff go as we speak, and this policy would only make that worse. But what else would be the impact of the policy, Llywydd? It's fewer teachers and larger class sizes in our schools. Labour shadow Minister, Emily Thornberry, said earlier this week, 'It's fine—if we have to have larger class sizes, we have to larger class sizes.' That's what she said. But it's not fine, Cabinet Secertary, is it? This policy will have a real negative impact on our young people and our schools in Wales, and both you and the UK Labour Party seem relaxed about it, because it fills some ideological dogma for you lot. So, we know all too well what a UK Labour Government would mean for Welsh schools: smaller class sizes and an £18 million black hole. Isn't it the case that a UK Labour Government would be an absolute disaster for Wales?
Wel, rwy'n synnu gweld Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet mor ddigyffro ac yn cefnogi polisi a allai adael ysgolion Cymru £18 miliwn yn y coch. Nawr, rydym yn gwybod bod ysgolion yn gwneud penderfyniadau anodd ar hyn o bryd gyda'u cyllidebau, gyda llawer yn diswyddo staff yr eiliad hon, a byddai'r polisi hwn yn gwneud y sefyllfa honno'n waeth. Ond beth arall fyddai effaith y polisi, Lywydd? Mae gennym lai o athrawon a dosbarthiadau mwy o faint yn ein hysgolion. Dywedodd Gweinidog Llafur yr Wrthblaid, Emily Thornberry, yn gynharach yr wythnos hon, 'Mae'n iawn—os oes rhaid i ni gael dosbarthiadau mwy o faint, mae'n rhaid i ni gael dosbarthiadau mwy o faint.' Dyna oedd ei geiriau hi. Ond nid yw'n iawn, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Bydd y polisi hwn yn cael effaith negyddol go iawn ar ein pobl ifanc a'n hysgolion yng Nghymru, ac mae'n ymddangos eich bod chi a Phlaid Lafur y DU yn ddigyffro ynglŷn â hynny, oherwydd mae'n bodloni rhyw ddogma ideolegol i chi. Felly, gwyddom yn iawn beth fyddai Llywodraeth Lafur y DU yn ei olygu i ysgolion Cymru: dosbarthiadau llai a thwll du o £18 miliwn. Onid yw'n wir y byddai Llywodraeth Lafur y DU yn drychineb llwyr i Gymru?
Well, Tom, you should know all about black holes, given that we have a black hole in our budget of £700 million as a result of being short-changed by the UK Conservative Government. So, those are the kinds of figures we are grappling with, not the £18 million that you've done on the back of a fag packet. This is a policy that will release funding for schools. It will be implemented sensibly by an incoming Labour Government. And, in relation to class sizes, I'm sure you will have heard Bridget Phillipson say very clearly that Emily Thornberry was mistaken in what she said.
Wel, Tom, dylech wybod popeth am dyllau duon, o ystyried bod gennym dwll du o £700 miliwn yn ein cyllideb o ganlyniad i'r ffaith ein bod wedi cael ein twyllo gan Lywodraeth Geidwadol y DU. Felly, dyna'r math o ffigurau rydym yn ymgiprys â nhw, nid y £18 miliwn rydych chi wedi'i ysgrifennu ar gefn pecyn sigaréts. Mae hwn yn bolisi a fydd yn rhyddhau cyllid ar gyfer ysgolion. Bydd yn cael ei weithredu'n ystyriol gan Lywodraeth Lafur newydd. Ac mewn perthynas â maint dosbarthiadau, rwy'n siŵr y byddwch wedi clywed Bridget Phillipson yn dweud yn glir iawn fod Emily Thornberry yn anghywir ynglŷn â'r hyn a ddywedodd.
Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarydd Plaid Cymru, Cefin Campbell.
Questions now from the Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Cefin Campbell.
Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Gan taw hwn yw'r tro cyntaf i fi fel llefarydd newydd y blaid ar addysg, gaf i ddweud fy mod yn edrych ymlaen yn fawr at gydweithio â chi ac, wrth gwrs, i sgrwtineiddio gwaith y Llywodraeth hefyd yn y sector arbennig yma.
Fy nghwestiwn cyntaf i yw hyn: fis diwethaf, fe wnaeth yr arweinydd Llafur, Keir Starmer, ymweld â Chymru, fel rhan o'i ymgyrch etholiadol. Yn ystod yr ymweliad hwn, fe wnaeth e chwe addewid i Gymru, pe bai ei blaid yn ennill yr etholiad cyffredinol. Nawr, un o'r rheini oedd recriwtio athrawon newydd mewn pynciau allweddol. Nawr, dwi ddim yn siwr os yw Starmer yn gwybod bod addysg wedi ei ddatganoli a bod Llafur wedi bod yn gyfrifol am addysg yng Nghymru ers dros 25 mlynedd. Ond er gwybodaeth iddo fe, dyma eich record chi: mae arolwg blynyddol yr NASUWT yn 2023 yn dangos bod bron i dri chwarter o athrawon Cymru dros y 12 mis diwethaf wedi ystyried gadael y proffesiwn; mae'r ystadegau diweddaraf am addysg gychwynnol athrawon yn dangos bod nifer y sawl sydd wedi cofrestru i ddilyn cyrsiau uwchradd 34 y cant yn is na'r targed a osodwyd gan Gyngor y Gweithlu Addysg ar gyfer Cymru; yn y canlyniadau PISA diweddaraf, sgoriodd Cymru 473 ar gyfer gwyddoniaeth, 466 ar gyfer mathemateg a 466 ar gyfer darllen, sef gostyngiadau sylweddol iawn, sydd, yn y drefn honno, yn 12, chwech a 10 pwynt yn is na chyfartaledd yr OECD ar gyfer gwledydd sydd yn cymryd rhan yn y cynllun. Yn y canlyniadau PISA—
Thank you, Llywydd. As this is my first opportunity as my party's new spokesperson on education, may I say that I'm looking forward very much to working with you and, of course, to scrutinising the work of the Government in this particular sector too.
My first question is this: last month, the Labour leader, Keir Starmer, visited Wales, as part of the election campaign. Now, during the visit, he made six pledges for Wales, to be implemented were he to win the general election. Now, one of those was to recruit more teachers in key subjects. Now, I'm not sure if Starmer is aware that education is devolved and that Labour has been responsible for education in Wales for over 25 years. But, for his information, here is your record: the annual NASUWT survey for 2023 shows that almost three quarters of teachers in Wales over the past 12 months had considered leaving the profession; recent statistics on initial teacher training show that the numbers registering for secondary courses is 34 per cent lower than the target set by the Education Workforce Council for Wales; in the most recent PISA results, Wales scored 473 for science, 466 for maths and 466 for reading, which are significant reductions in points, and which, in that order, are 12, six and 10 points below the OECD average for the nations participating in the programme. In the PISA results—
Dwi wedi bod yn amyneddgar iawn, iawn, gan mai hyn yw eich cwestiwn cyntaf chi fel llefarydd addysg, felly os gallwch chi ddod i gwestiwn nawr.
I have been very patient indeed, as it is your first question as education spokesperson, so if you could come to a question now.
Fe ddof i at y cwestiwn. Felly, yr hyn hoffwn i wybod yw sut mae Starmer yn mynd i gyflawni rhywbeth y mae Llafur Cymru wedi methu â'i wneud, sef trawsnewid ein sector addysg a'i wneud yn broffesiwn apelgar unwaith eto i athrawon.
I will come to my question. Therefore, what I would like to know is how Starmer is going to deliver something that Welsh Labour has failed to deliver, namely to transform our education sector and to make it an attractive sector to teachers once again.
Thank you very much, Cefin, and can I welcome you to your post and say that I hope that we can work together in a constructive way, and thank Heledd Fychan for the work that she did as the frontbench post holder in this area? I can assure you that Keir Starmer is very well aware that education is devolved. We, as I've said to Tom Giffard, will have a consequential arising from the commitments that have been made around the recruitment and retention of teachers, and we will be able to introduce that work in our own way, being respectful of devolution, because the kind of shortage subjects that we would have in Wales—. As you know very well, we've got a particular priority on getting more Welsh language teachers, as well as other subjects, and it's important that we're able to use that money in a way that respects the needs that we have in Wales.
I do recognise the challenges that we have with the recruitment of teachers. That's why we're working very proactively on an ongoing basis around teacher recruitment. That's why we have put so much support in for workforce well-being through things like education support, and I'm continuing that dialogue with front-line practitioners about what more we can do to make schools attractive, welcoming places for people to work in Wales.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Cefin, ac a gaf i eich croesawu i'ch swydd a dweud fy mod yn gobeithio y gallwn weithio gyda'n gilydd mewn ffordd adeiladol, a diolch i Heledd Fychan am y gwaith a wnaeth fel deiliad y swydd yn y maes hwn ar y fainc flaen? Gallaf eich sicrhau bod Keir Starmer yn ymwybodol iawn fod addysg wedi'i datganoli. Fel rwyf wedi'i ddweud wrth Tom Giffard, bydd gennym swm canlyniadol a fydd yn deillio o'r ymrwymiadau sydd wedi'u gwneud ynghylch recriwtio a chadw athrawon, a byddwn yn gallu cyflwyno'r gwaith hwnnw yn ein ffordd ein hunain, gan barchu datganoli, oherwydd y math o bynciau lle mae gennym brinder yma yng Nghymru—. Fel y gwyddoch yn iawn, mae gennym flaenoriaeth benodol i gael mwy o athrawon Cymraeg, yn ogystal â phynciau eraill, ac mae'n bwysig ein bod yn gallu defnyddio'r arian hwnnw mewn ffordd sy'n parchu'r anghenion sydd gennym yng Nghymru.
Rwy'n cydnabod yr heriau sydd gennym wrth recriwtio athrawon. Dyna pam ein bod yn gweithio'n rhagweithiol iawn ar sail barhaus ar recriwtio athrawon. Dyna pam ein bod wedi rhoi cymaint o gefnogaeth i lesiant y gweithlu drwy bethau fel cymorth addysg, ac rwy'n parhau â'r ddeialog gydag addysgwyr rheng flaen ynghylch beth arall y gallwn ei wneud i wneud ysgolion yn lleoedd deniadol a chroesawgar i bobl weithio ynddynt yng Nghymru.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. I look forward to those consequentials coming and changing the poor record over the last 25 years. You mentioned teacher recruitment, and we know that there are huge problems in terms of recruitment and the retention of teachers across the whole of Wales. There's been no shortage of announcements by the Welsh Government to encourage young people to think about a career as teachers and classroom assistants, but do we know whether these campaigns have been successful? The initial teacher education incentive scheme for priority subjects is one such example. So, you can imagine my disappointment when I discovered last week in a question to the First Minister that the Welsh Government has no idea whether the scheme is working or not because you haven't got the evidence. You have no data to determine if the recipients of the incentive before 2022-23 are still teaching in Wales, are teaching somewhere else, or not teaching at all. Now, this is a scheme that's been running for about a decade, with millions of pounds already spent on it. So, Cabinet Secretary, how do you respond to this obvious failure in monitoring and evaluation, and do you agree with me that, without this data, we can't measure the success of this extremely important scheme?
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Edrychaf ymlaen at weld y symiau canlyniadol hynny'n dod ac at newid y lefelau cyflawniad gwael a welsom dros y 25 mlynedd diwethaf. Roeddech chi'n sôn am recriwtio athrawon, ac rydym yn gwybod bod problemau enfawr o ran recriwtio a chadw athrawon ar draws Cymru gyfan. Ni fu prinder cyhoeddiadau gan Lywodraeth Cymru i annog pobl ifanc i feddwl am yrfaoedd fel athrawon a chynorthwywyr dosbarth, ond a ydym yn gwybod i ba raddau y bu'r ymgyrchoedd hyn yn llwyddiant? Mae'r cynllun cymhelliant addysg gychwynnol i athrawon ar gyfer pynciau blaenoriaeth yn enghraifft o'r fath. Felly, gallwch ddychmygu fy siom pan glywais, yr wythnos diwethaf, mewn cwestiwn i'r Prif Weinidog, nad oes gan Lywodraeth Cymru unrhyw syniad i ba raddau y mae'r cynllun yn gweithio am nad oes gennych dystiolaeth. Nid oes gennych unrhyw ddata i ddangos a yw derbynwyr y cymhelliant cyn 2022-23 yn dal i addysgu yng Nghymru, yn addysgu yn rhywle arall, neu heb fod yn addysgu o gwbl. Nawr, mae'r cynllun hwn wedi bod ar y gweill ers tua degawd, gyda miliynau o bunnoedd eisoes wedi cael ei wario arno. Felly, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, sut rydych chi'n ymateb i'r methiant amlwg hwn o ran monitro a gwerthuso, ac a ydych chi'n cytuno na allwn fesur llwyddiant y cynllun hynod bwysig hwn heb ddata o'r fath?
Thank you. Data is really important, and I've been very, very clear about that with officials. You can't change policy without having effective data. Obviously, I was in the Chamber for your exchange with the First Minister, and you tabled a similar question to me. The answer that I gave explained that, over the last couple of years, the teachers are still going through that process. So, we've changed it so that it's not just going on a training course to learn to be a teacher; it's about going through the qualified teacher status, the induction status. So, that first tranche of people will be completing their studies now at the end of this year, and part-time students will be next year. I did acknowledge in the answer that I gave you that there was a lack of data before that time and informed you that we were working with the Education Workforce Council on a data-sharing agreement to try and obtain that data. So, what I'm very happy to do is, when we've completed that work, to provide the data for you.
Diolch. Mae data'n bwysig iawn, ac rwyf wedi bod yn glir iawn ynglŷn â hynny gyda swyddogion. Ni allwch newid polisi heb gael data effeithiol. Yn amlwg, roeddwn yn y Siambr ar gyfer eich trafodaeth gyda'r Prif Weinidog, ac fe wnaethoch chi gyflwyno cwestiwn tebyg i mi. Roedd yr ateb a roddais yn egluro bod athrawon, dros y ddwy flynedd diwethaf, yn dal i fynd drwy'r broses honno. Felly, rydym wedi newid y broses fel ei bod yn ymwneud â mwy na mynd ar gwrs hyfforddi i ddysgu sut i fod yn athro; mae'n ymwneud â mynd drwy'r statws athro cymwysedig, y statws sefydlu. Felly, bydd y garfan gyntaf o bobl yn cwblhau eu hastudiaethau ar ddiwedd y flwyddyn hon, a bydd myfyrwyr rhan-amser yn cwblhau eu hastudiaethau nhw y flwyddyn nesaf. Fe wneuthum gydnabod yn yr ateb a roddais i chi fod yna ddiffyg data cyn hynny a'ch hysbysu ein bod yn gweithio gyda Chyngor y Gweithlu Addysg ar gytundeb rhannu data i geisio cael y data hwnnw. Felly, pan fyddwn wedi cwblhau'r gwaith hwnnw, byddaf yn hapus iawn i ddarparu'r data i chi.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Rwy'n edrych ymlaen at dderbyn y data hwnnw.
Gan gadw at y thema o ddenu mwy o bobl i'r proffesiwn, rwy'n bwriadu sôn nawr am y cyrsiau tystysgrif addysg i raddedigion, y cyrsiau TAR. Fel rydyn ni'n gwybod, ein prifysgolion sydd yn darparu'r cyrsiau hyn. Rydyn ni wedi gweld enghraifft yn ddiweddar o'r bygythiad i gyrsiau tebyg i hyn, gyda Phrifysgol Aberystwyth yn cyhoeddi bod cyrsiau hyfforddi athrawon yno yn dod i ben o fis Medi ymlaen. Mae hyn, wrth gwrs, yn codi llawer o bryderon yn y sector a thu hwnt. Nid yn unig ei fod yn achosi problemau i lawer yng nghanolbarth Cymru a fyddai wedi mynd i Brifysgol Aberystwyth i astudio TAR, ond mae hefyd yn lleihau'r cyfleoedd i'r rhai fyddai wedi hyfforddi i fod yn athrawon cyfrwng Cymraeg yn ogystal. Felly, gan ystyried hyn i gyd, beth yw'ch ymateb i'r newyddion bod y cwrs TAR ym Mhrifysgol Aberystwyth yn dod i ben? Beth mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn bwriadu gwneud ynglŷn â'r ffaith hyn? A fyddwn ni'n gweld mwy o gwtogi, o bosibl, yn y sector? Ac, yn olaf, pa asesiad mae'r Gweinidog yn bwriadu ei wneud o ran cyrraedd y nod o greu miliwn o siaradwyr Cymraeg, gan ystyried y gostyngiad posibl yn y nifer sy'n hyfforddi i fod yn athrawon? Diolch.
Thank you very much. I look forward to receiving that data.
Sticking to the theme of attracting more people to the profession, I now intend to turn to PGCE courses. As we know, our universities provide these courses. We've seen an example recently of the threat to these courses, with Aberystwyth University announcing that teacher training courses there are to cease from September onwards. This, of course, raises a number of concerns in the sector and beyond. Not only is it causing problems to many people in mid Wales who would have gone to Aberystwyth University to study a PGCE, but it also reduces the opportunities for those who would have trained to be Welsh-medium teachers too. So, given all of this, what is your response to the news that the PGCE course at Aberystwyth University is to cease? What does the Welsh Government intend to do about this fact? Will we see further cuts in the sector? And finally, what assessment does the Minister intend to make in terms of reaching the target of a million Welsh speakers, given the possible reduction in the numbers training to be teachers? Thank you.
Thank you. Can I say, in relation to the situation in Aberystwyth, Cefin Campbell will be very well aware that we have an independent system to accredit initial teacher education in Wales? I think that's very important—that we have a system that sets the highest possible standards to make sure that, if someone is going to do that course, they're going to get a really good experience. Aberystwyth was not successful in being re-accredited and chose not to appeal. That was a process that was independent of Government. It's my understanding that there were around 21 students registered to undertake the course in Aberystwyth in the coming year, and we have worked with the university to make sure that there are appropriate places elsewhere for those students. It is important to say as well that all teacher training universities in Wales offer provision through the medium of English and Welsh, so I can give you that assurance that, although we have lost the Aberystwyth places, people can learn through the medium of Welsh elsewhere.
Diolch. Mewn perthynas â'r sefyllfa yn Aberystwyth, a gaf i ddweud y bydd Cefin Campbell yn ymwybodol iawn fod gennym system annibynnol i achredu addysg gychwynnol i athrawon yng Nghymru? Rwy'n credu bod hynny'n bwysig iawn—fod gennym system sy'n gosod y safonau uchaf posibl i sicrhau, os bydd rhywun yn mynd i astudio'r cwrs hwnnw, eu bod yn cael profiad da iawn. Ni lwyddodd Aberystwyth i gael ei hailachredu a dewisodd beidio ag apelio. Roedd honno'n broses a oedd yn annibynnol ar y Llywodraeth. Fy nealltwriaeth i yw bod tua 21 o fyfyrwyr wedi cofrestru i astudio'r cwrs yn Aberystwyth y flwyddyn nesaf, ac rydym wedi gweithio gyda'r brifysgol i sicrhau bod lleoedd priodol mewn mannau eraill ar gyfer y myfyrwyr hynny. Mae'n bwysig dweud hefyd fod pob prifysgol yng Nghymru sy'n cynnig cwrs hyfforddiant cychwynnol i athrawon yn cynnig darpariaeth drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg a'r Saesneg, felly er ein bod wedi colli lleoedd yn Aberystwyth, gallaf eich sicrhau y gall pobl ddysgu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg mewn mannau eraill.
3. A wnaiff yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet amlinellu cynlluniau Llywodraeth Cymru i leihau'r defnydd o ffonau symudol mewn ysgolion? OQ61230
3. Will the Cabinet Secretary outline the Welsh Government's plans to curb the use of mobile phones in schools? OQ61230
We are aware of the impacts of the use of mobile phones on behaviour in schools, and I will be working with schools to ensure they have policies in place that reduce these impacts and promote learning.
Rydym yn ymwybodol o effeithiau defnyddio ffonau symudol ar ymddygiad mewn ysgolion, a byddaf yn gweithio gydag ysgolion i sicrhau bod ganddynt bolisïau ar waith sy'n lleihau'r effeithiau hyn ac yn hyrwyddo dysgu.
Thank you very much, Cabinet Secretary. Mobile phones are currently one of the biggest impediments to successful education, and this is something that teachers are grappling with worldwide, not just in Wales. We should bear in mind that social media apps are designed to be addictive to children and young people, and, with close to 100 per cent of children owning a mobile phone by the age of 12, they are proving to be a huge distraction in the classroom, and we hear this regularly from educators.
A report by Policy Exchange last month found that schools that ban mobile phones are twice as likely to be rated as outstanding by Estyn or Ofsted, and this was despite the fact that schools with complete bans had a higher proportion of pupils eligible for free school meals than schools with less restrictive policies. The evidence that mobile phone distraction is hugely detrimental to academic performance is sound, but also there is a huge wealth of evidence to indicate that high social media use has a detrimental effect on the mental health of young people. The UK Government's guidance introduced in February intends to stop the use of mobile phones during the school day. So, what action is the Welsh Government taking to stop the use of phones during school days, to minimise disruption, improve behaviour and improve the mental health of young people?
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Ar hyn o bryd ffonau symudol yw un o'r rhwystrau mwyaf i addysg lwyddiannus, ac mae hyn yn rhywbeth y mae athrawon yn mynd i'r afael ag ef ledled y byd, nid yng Nghymru yn unig. Dylem gofio bod apiau cyfryngau cymdeithasol wedi'u cynllunio i fod yn gaethiwus i blant a phobl ifanc, ac o ystyried bod bron i 100 y cant o blant yn berchen ar ffôn symudol erbyn iddynt gyrraedd 12 oed, maent yn amlwg yn tynnu sylw disgyblion yn yr ystafell ddosbarth, ac rydym yn clywed hyn yn rheolaidd gan addysgwyr.
Canfu adroddiad gan Policy Exchange fis diwethaf fod ysgolion sy'n gwahardd ffonau symudol ddwywaith yn fwy tebygol o gael eu hystyried yn rhagorol gan Estyn neu Ofsted, ac roedd hyn er gwaethaf y ffaith bod gan ysgolion sydd â gwaharddiadau cyflawn ar ffonau symudol gyfran uwch o ddisgyblion sy'n gymwys i gael prydau ysgol am ddim nag ysgolion sydd â pholisïau llai cyfyngol. Mae'r dystiolaeth fod ffonau symudol yn tynnu sylw ac yn niweidiol iawn i berfformiad academaidd yn gadarn, ond mae yna gyfoeth enfawr o dystiolaeth hefyd sy'n dangos bod defnydd uchel o'r cyfryngau cymdeithasol yn cael effaith niweidiol ar iechyd meddwl pobl ifanc. Nod canllawiau Llywodraeth y DU a gyflwynwyd ym mis Chwefror yw atal disgyblion rhag defnyddio ffonau symudol yn ystod y diwrnod ysgol. Felly, pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i atal disgyblion rhag defnyddio ffonau symudol yn ystod y diwrnod ysgol, i leihau aflonyddwch, gwella ymddygiad a gwella iechyd meddwl pobl ifanc?
Thank you, Gareth. Almost all schools in Wales have mobile phone policies that prohibit the use of mobile phones during lessons, and guidelines should be enforced consistently by all school staff and supported by the school leadership team. But we do believe that it is important there is an element of discretion for schools in this regard, because, where managed properly, teachers are finding innovative ways of integrating mobile technology into classroom teaching, and we would not want to see overly restrictive policies that would limit the use of creative ways of teaching. Governing bodies are also required by law to ensure that its schools pursue policies designed to promote positive behaviour, and that policy needs to reflect its own circumstances, and this could well include the use of mobile phones on school premises.
You mentioned social media and the mental health impacts of it. Similarly to mobile phone use, there are pros and cons with social media. There can also be benefits, and that's been very well documented by academics, but it does need to be used in a cautious way. That's why one of the things that we are doing through our curriculum is enabling children and young people to become discerning users of digital resources, and we also have an absolute plethora of information on Hwb's 'Keeping safe online' area, where we've got advice for schools, learners and their families on a range of digital issues, including mental health and well-being, the internet, balancing screen time and social media. We're also taking forward the national digital resilience action plan, which is designed to enhance online safety and the digital resilience of our children and young people here in Wales.
Diolch yn fawr, Gareth. Mae gan bron pob ysgol yng Nghymru bolisïau ffôn symudol sy'n gwahardd defnyddio ffonau symudol yn ystod gwersi, a dylid gorfodi canllawiau yn gyson gan holl staff yr ysgol a dylid sicrhau bod rhain yn cael cefnogi gan dîm arweinyddiaeth yr ysgol. Ond rydym yn credu ei bod yn bwysig fod yna elfen o ddisgresiwn i ysgolion yn hyn o beth, oherwydd, lle cânt eu rheoli'n briodol, mae athrawon yn dod o hyd i ffyrdd arloesol o integreiddio technoleg symudol i addysgu yn yr ystafell ddosbarth, ac ni fyddem eisiau gweld polisïau rhy gyfyngol yn cyfyngu ar allu athrawon i addysgu mewn ffyrdd creadigol. Yn ogystal â hyn, mae'n ofynnol yn ôl y gyfraith i gyrff llywodraethu sicrhau bod eu hysgolion yn dilyn polisïau sydd wedi'u cynllunio i hyrwyddo ymddygiad cadarnhaol, ac mae angen i'r polisi hwnnw adlewyrchu eu hamgylchiadau eu hunain, a gallai hynny gynnwys defnyddio ffonau symudol ar safle'r ysgol.
Roeddech chi'n sôn am y cyfryngau cymdeithasol a'u heffeithiau ar iechyd meddwl. Yn yr un modd â defnydd o ffonau symudol, mae yna fanteision ac anfanteision gyda'r cyfryngau cymdeithasol. Gall fod manteision hefyd, ac mae hynny wedi'i ddogfennu'n dda iawn gan academyddion, ond mae angen eu defnyddio'n ofalus. Dyna pam mai un o'r pethau a wnawn drwy ein cwricwlwm yw galluogi plant a phobl ifanc i ddysgu sut i ddefnyddio adnoddau digidol mewn ffordd graff, ac mae gennym hefyd amrywiaeth o wybodaeth ar 'Cadw'n ddiogel ar-lein' Hwb, lle mae gennym gyngor i ysgolion, dysgwyr a'u teuluoedd ar ystod o faterion digidol, gan gynnwys iechyd meddwl a llesiant, y rhyngrwyd, cydbwyso amser sgrin a'r cyfryngau cymdeithasol. Rydym hefyd yn bwrw ymlaen â'r cynllun gweithredu cenedlaethol ar gadernid digidol, sydd wedi'i gynllunio i wella diogelwch ar-lein a chadernid digidol ein plant a'n pobl ifanc yma yng Nghymru.
4. Pa arweiniad y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ei roi i ysgolion yn dilyn adolygiad Cass? OQ61234
4. What guidance has the Welsh Government provided to schools following the Cass review? OQ61234
The focus of the Cass review is not education, although I acknowledge principles and evidence from the review will be important for schools. We are continuing our analysis of the Cass review and any implications for education services in Wales.
Nid addysg yw ffocws adolygiad Cass, er fy mod yn cydnabod y bydd egwyddorion a thystiolaeth o’r adolygiad yn bwysig i ysgolion. Rydym yn parhau â’n dadansoddiad o adolygiad Cass ac unrhyw oblygiadau i wasanaethau addysg yng Nghymru.
Diolch. Cabinet Secretary, we all have a duty to protect the health and well-being of children and young people in Wales, particularly you in your new role, and I know that you take that seriously. It is clear from the Cass review’s concerning findings that children who are confused about their gender have been let down by a lack of evidence and research. The Cass review, whose findings are significant for people here in Wales as well as England, warns against teachers making premature and what amount to be clinical decisions about the children whom they are supposed to be safeguarding. It is clear from the report’s findings that social transitioning in schools is often a precursor to going down a road to irreversible medical intervention, often, worryingly, without parental knowledge.
Yet here in Wales we seem to have a blind-sighted approach to gender ideology and dysphoria, which is woven throughout the Welsh Government's own compulsory relationships and education code and guidance, and it needs to be reviewed urgently and take in the findings of this landmark review. The UK Government have seen this as important enough to issue new guidance to schools, Cabinet Secretary, yet here in Wales we have a deafening silence and no action on this. Our children deserve far better, Cabinet Secretary, and need to be safeguarded properly in light of those findings of the Cass review, which are hugely significant. So, when can we expect that new or revised guidance to go out to schools across Wales? Because it shouldn't be a matter of if you do it, it should be a matter of when. Thank you.
Diolch. Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, mae dyletswydd ar bob un ohonom i ddiogelu iechyd a lles plant a phobl ifanc yng Nghymru, yn enwedig chi yn eich rôl newydd, a gwn eich bod o ddifrif ynghylch hynny. Mae'n amlwg o ganfyddiadau adolygiad Cass, sy'n peri cryn bryder, fod plant sy'n ddryslyd ynghylch eu rhywedd wedi cael cam oherwydd diffyg tystiolaeth ac ymchwil. Mae adolygiad Cass, y mae ei ganfyddiadau’n arwyddocaol i bobl yma yng Nghymru yn ogystal â Lloegr, yn rhybuddio athrawon rhag gwneud penderfyniadau cynamserol a'r hyn sy'n gyfystyr â phenderfyniadau clinigol am y plant y maent i fod i’w diogelu. Mae’n amlwg o ganfyddiadau’r adroddiad fod trawsnewid cymdeithasol mewn ysgolion yn aml yn rhagflaenydd i ymyrraeth feddygol ddiwrthdro, sy'n aml yn digwydd, yn frawychus, heb yn wybod i rieni.
Ac eto, yma yng Nghymru, mae'n ymddangos bod gennym ymagwedd gibddall tuag at ideoleg rhywedd a dysfforia, sy'n rhan annatod o god a chyfarwyddyd gorfodol Llywodraeth Cymru ar addysg rhyw a chydberthynas, ac mae angen eu hadolygu ar fyrder ac ystyried canfyddiadau’r adolygiad pwysig hwn. Mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi ystyried hyn yn ddigon pwysig i gyhoeddi canllawiau newydd i ysgolion, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, ac eto, yma yng Nghymru, mae gennym dawelwch byddarol a dim camau gweithredu ar hyn. Mae ein plant yn haeddu llawer gwell, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, ac mae angen eu diogelu’n briodol yng ngoleuni’r canfyddiadau yn adolygiad Cass, sy’n hynod arwyddocaol. Felly, pryd y gallwn ddisgwyl i’r canllawiau newydd neu ddiwygiedig hynny gael eu cyhoeddi i ysgolion ledled Cymru? Oherwydd dylai fod yn fater o pryd y gwnewch hynny, yn hytrach nag os. Diolch.
Thank you for that supplementary. Can I say that I want our schools to be inclusive, welcoming places for all children and young people? I think that should be the starting point of everyone in this Chamber, including you, Laura. We have been working on draft guidance on trans issues. We've worked in a co-productive way with a range of stakeholders and also with children and young people themselves. However, mindful of the findings of the Cass review, which did have some findings to make around education, we wanted to take some more time to consider the Cass review more fully before going out to consult on that. So, that's what we are doing at the moment. So, rather than there being a deafening silence on this issue, we are seeking to make sure that what we do in this area is absolutely evidence based.
And if I could just remind the Member that, while there's been a lot of focus by some in her party, and her in particular, on the Cass review, one of the most important findings as far as I was concerned in the review was when Dr Hilary Cass said:
'The surrounding noise and increasingly toxic, ideological and polarised public debate has made the work of the Review significantly harder and does nothing to serve the children and young people who may already be subject to significant minority stress.'
I know you probably don't want to hear it, but it's important for you to hear it. A compassionate and kind society remembers that there are real children, young people, families, carers and clinicians behind the headlines, and we would all of us do well to remember that.
Diolch am eich cwestiwn atodol. A gaf i ddweud fy mod eisiau i’n hysgolion fod yn lleoedd cynhwysol, croesawgar i bob plentyn ac unigolyn ifanc? Credaf y dylai hynny fod yn fan cychwyn i bawb yn y Siambr hon, gan eich cynnwys chi, Laura. Rydym wedi bod yn gweithio ar ganllawiau drafft ar faterion traws. Rydym wedi gweithio mewn ffordd gydgynhyrchiol gydag ystod o randdeiliaid a chyda phlant a phobl ifanc eu hunain. Fodd bynnag, gan gofio canfyddiadau adolygiad Cass, a oedd yn cynnwys rhai canfyddiadau'n ymwneud ag addysg, roeddem yn awyddus i gymryd mwy o amser i ystyried adolygiad Cass yn llawnach cyn ymgynghori ar hynny. Felly, dyna rydym yn ei wneud ar hyn o bryd. Felly, yn hytrach na distawrwydd byddarol ar y mater hwn, rydym yn ceisio sicrhau bod yr hyn a wnawn yn y maes hwn yn gwbl seiliedig ar dystiolaeth.
Ac os caf atgoffa'r Aelod, er bod llawer o ffocws wedi'i roi gan rai yn ei phlaid, a hithau'n benodol, ar adolygiad Cass, un o'r canfyddiadau pwysicaf yn yr adolygiad yn fy marn i oedd pan ddywedodd Dr Hilary Cass:
'Mae'r synau o'n cwmpas a'r ddadl gyhoeddus gynyddol wenwynig, ideolegol a phegynol wedi gwneud gwaith yr Adolygiad yn llawer anos ac nid yw'n gwneud dim i helpu'r plant a'r bobl ifanc a allai fod yn agored i straen lleiafrifol sylweddol eisoes.'
Gwn nad ydych chi'n debygol o fod eisiau clywed hyn, ond mae'n bwysig i chi ei glywed. Mae cymdeithas dosturiol a charedig yn cofio bod plant, pobl ifanc, teuluoedd, gofalwyr a chlinigwyr go iawn y tu ôl i’r penawdau, a dylai pob un ohonom gofio hynny.
5. Beth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i wella cyrhaeddiad addysgol? OQ61237
5. What is the Welsh Government doing to improve educational attainment? OQ61237
We are focused on delivering sustained improvement in educational attainment so that every learner can fulfil their potential. We will deliver this through reform and improvement aimed at creating a whole system that works for all learners, and closing the attainment gap faced by our most disadvantaged learners.
Rydym yn canolbwyntio ar sicrhau gwelliant parhaus mewn cyrhaeddiad addysgol fel y gall pob dysgwr gyflawni eu potensial. Byddwn yn cyflawni hyn drwy ddiwygio a gwella gyda’r nod o greu system gyfan sy’n gweithio i bob dysgwr, a chau’r bwlch cyrhaeddiad a wynebir gan ein dysgwyr mwyaf difreintiedig.
Diolch, Cabinet Secretary. I was really pleased to hear that the attainment champion pilot is to be extended into a second phase this September, and the pilot, which was designed to help tackle the impact of poverty on pupils' educational attainment and to boost standards in schools, has shown some positive results. So, I'm delighted to see that it is to continue. Cabinet Secretary, do you agree that projects like that, that help—? Sorry, I'll start again. Do you agree that projects like the attainment champions pilot, which is hard to say, clearly demonstrate the Welsh Government's commitment to improving the educational experience for disadvantaged children?
Diolch, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Roeddwn yn falch iawn o glywed bod cynllun peilot y pencampwyr cyrhaeddiad i’w ymestyn i ail gam ym mis Medi, ac mae’r cynllun peilot, a gynlluniwyd i helpu i fynd i’r afael ag effaith tlodi ar gyrhaeddiad addysgol disgyblion ac i hybu safonau mewn ysgolion, wedi dangos canlyniadau cadarnhaol. Felly, rwy’n falch iawn o weld ei fod am barhau. Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, a ydych chi'n cytuno bod prosiectau o'r fath, sy'n helpu—? Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, fe ddechreuaf eto. A ydych chi'n cytuno bod prosiectau fel cynllun peilot y pencampwyr cyrhaeddiad yn dangos ymrwymiad clir gan Lywodraeth Cymru i wella’r profiad addysgol i blant difreintiedig?
Thank you very much, Joyce, and thank you for highlighting the attainment champions pilot. I was lucky a few weeks ago to be able to meet some of the school leaders involved in that pilot, and it has been really successful. I'm pleased to say that we have announced the second phase of the scheme now, so there'll be more schools that will be able to benefit from that. And you are absolutely right to highlight the vital nature of closing the attainment gap for our most disadvantaged children, and the attainment champions is just one aspect of the work that we're doing in this space.
We've also developed a partnership with the Education Endowment Foundation, which is providing all schools with bilingual materials, so that they can access the best international evidence on the most effective teaching and learning strategies. We're also looking at incentivising teachers to work in the most challenging schools, and you'll be well aware of our long-standing track record with the pupil development grant, which we've issued new guidance on, and which we are continuing to invest in.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Joyce, a diolch am dynnu sylw at gynllun peilot y pencampwyr cyrhaeddiad. Roeddwn yn ffodus i allu cyfarfod â rhai o’r arweinwyr ysgolion sy'n cymryd rhan yn y cynllun peilot hwnnw ychydig wythnosau yn ôl, ac mae wedi bod yn llwyddiant mawr. Rwy'n falch o ddweud ein bod wedi cyhoeddi ail gam y cynllun bellach, felly bydd mwy o ysgolion yn gallu elwa ohono. Ac rydych chi'n iawn i dynnu sylw at natur hanfodol cau'r bwlch cyrhaeddiad ar gyfer ein plant mwyaf difreintiedig, ac un agwedd yn unig yw'r pencampwyr cyrhaeddiad ar y gwaith a wnawn yn y maes hwn.
Rydym hefyd wedi datblygu partneriaeth gyda'r Sefydliad Gwaddol Addysgol, sy'n darparu deunyddiau dwyieithog i bob ysgol, fel y gallant gael mynediad at y dystiolaeth ryngwladol orau ar y strategaethau addysgu a dysgu mwyaf effeithiol. Rydym hefyd yn edrych ar gymell athrawon i weithio yn yr ysgolion mwyaf heriol, ac fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol iawn o'n hanes hirsefydlog gyda'r grant datblygu disgyblion, yr ydym wedi cyhoeddi canllawiau newydd arno, ac yr ydym yn parhau i fuddsoddi ynddo.
Educational attainment is of the utmost importance and, Cabinet Secretary, I'm sure you'll join me in paying tribute to Manorbier Church in Wales VC School who, following a fire in October 2022, had to decant to Jameston Community Hall, and under the fantastic leadership of headteacher Sharon Davies delivered a fantastic Estyn report that said:
'The school's highly committed staff work tirelessly to ensure that pupils' lives and learning continue without disruption or distress.'
An absolutely fantastic testament to the hard work and dedication of Sharon and her team, and the wider school community of Manorbier. But ensuring that we have good-quality staff across the board in Wales to deliver on that attainment is really important, so how are we delivering the very best skilled teachers in the workforce here in Wales?
Mae cyrhaeddiad addysgol o’r pwys mwyaf, ac Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, rwy’n siŵr y gwnewch chi ymuno â mi i dalu teyrnged i Ysgol yr Eglwys yng Nghymru Maenorbŷr, sy'n ysgol dan reolaeth wirfoddol, y bu’n rhaid iddi symud i Neuadd Gymunedol Jameston yn dilyn tân ym mis Hydref 2022, ac o dan arweinyddiaeth wych y pennaeth Sharon Davies, cafodd adroddiad gwych gan Estyn a ddywedodd:
'Mae staff hynod ymroddedig yr ysgol yn gweithio'n ddiflino i sicrhau bod bywydau ac addysg y disgyblion yn parhau heb ymyrraeth na gofid.'
Mae'n dyst i waith caled ac ymroddiad Sharon a'i thîm, a chymuned ehangach ysgol Maenorbŷr. Ond mae sicrhau bod gennym staff o ansawdd da ym mhob man yng Nghymru i gyflawni cyrhaeddiad o'r fath yn wirioneddol bwysig, felly sut rydym yn darparu’r athrawon medrus gorau yn y gweithlu yma yng Nghymru?
Can I take this opportunity to thank you for raising that and to recognise what sounds like a fantastic achievement by Manorbier school, and to thank Sharon Davies? It's a huge achievement to do that when you're dealing with the aftermath of a fire, and I'd be really grateful if you would pass on my thanks to the school.
We've got some brilliant school leaders in Wales, and one of the things that we're looking at with our school improvement partnership programme is that we've had a really clear message from school leaders that they see school-to-school working as being absolutely key to getting the improvements that we want to see in Wales. We've now gone into the second phase of our school improvement partnership. We're expecting all local authorities to be partners in that as well, but there'll also be a strong focus on national leadership, and I'll be providing a further update to the Senedd on this in due course.
A gaf i achub ar y cyfle hwn i ddiolch i chi am godi hynny ac i gydnabod yr hyn sy’n swnio fel cyflawniad gwych gan ysgol Maenorbŷr, ac i ddiolch i Sharon Davies? Mae'n gamp enfawr i wneud hynny pan fyddwch yn ymdopi â chanlyniad tân, a byddwn yn ddiolchgar iawn pe baech yn diolch i'r ysgol ar fy rhan.
Mae gennym arweinwyr ysgolion gwych yng Nghymru, ac un o’r pethau yr ydym yn edrych arnynt gyda’n rhaglen partneriaeth gwella ysgolion yw ein bod wedi cael neges glir iawn gan arweinwyr ysgolion eu bod o'r farn fod gweithio ysgol i ysgol yn gwbl allweddol er mwyn sicrhau'r gwelliannau yr ydym am eu gweld yng Nghymru. Rydym bellach wedi cychwyn ar ail gam ein partneriaeth gwella ysgolion. Rydym yn disgwyl i bob awdurdod lleol fod yn bartneriaid yn hynny hefyd, ond bydd ffocws cryf hefyd ar arweinyddiaeth genedlaethol, a byddaf yn rhoi diweddariad pellach i'r Senedd ar hyn maes o law.
6. Pa asesiad y mae’r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet wedi'i wneud o werth cymdeithasol y sector addysg bellach? OQ61249
6. What assessment has the Cabinet Secretary made of the social value provided by the further education sector? OQ61249
The Welsh Government funded the recent report by ColegauCymru, 'Demonstrating the Social Value of Further Education Colleges in Wales'. The report recognises the significant economic impact and social value of the further education sector in Wales, and shows how it contributes to societal well-being beyond its traditional educational roles.
Ariannodd Llywodraeth Cymru adroddiad diweddar gan ColegauCymru, 'Dangos Gwerth Cymdeithasol Colegau Addysg Bellach yng Nghymru'. Mae’r adroddiad yn cydnabod effaith economaidd sylweddol a gwerth cymdeithasol y sector addysg bellach yng Nghymru, ac yn dangos sut mae’n cyfrannu at lesiant cymdeithasol y tu hwnt i’w rolau addysgol traddodiadol.
It does indeed, and I was going to refer to that report in my answer, as you pre-empted. Well, in my question, I should say—my supplementary question. We know that cultivating a skilled workforce helps create a prosperous, resilient Wales, which are, of course, some of our well-being goals, but also providing robust support systems integrated into educational settings can help with mental and physical health as well, and, of course, a healthier Wales is another one of those goals.
So, my question therefore is: how did the Government consider those wider societal impacts when you introduced the recent cuts to budgets for post-16 education funding? When you cut nearly £13 million from post-16 education provision and over £7 million from personal learning accounts, did you assess, did you consider, did you even realise the effect that would have, not only on the further education institutions in question, but, of course, on Welsh society and the well-being goals more broadly, as you've mentioned have been highlighted in the ColegauCymru report?
Yn wir, ac roeddwn yn mynd i gyfeirio at yr adroddiad hwnnw yn fy ateb, fel y rhagwelwyd gennych. Wel, yn fy nghwestiwn, dylwn ddweud—fy nghwestiwn atodol. Gwyddom fod meithrin gweithlu medrus yn helpu i greu Cymru lewyrchus, gydnerth, sy'n rhai o’n nodau llesiant wrth gwrs, ond hefyd, gall darparu systemau cymorth cadarn sydd wedi’u hintegreiddio mewn lleoliadau addysgol helpu gydag iechyd meddwl a chorfforol hefyd, ac wrth gwrs, mae Cymru iachach yn un arall o’r nodau hynny.
Felly, fy nghwestiwn yw: sut yr ystyriodd y Llywodraeth yr effeithiau cymdeithasol ehangach hynny pan wnaethoch gyflwyno’r toriadau diweddar i gyllid addysg ôl-16? Pan dorroch chi bron i £13 miliwn o ddarpariaeth addysg ôl-16 a dros £7 miliwn o gyfrifon dysgu personol, a wnaethoch chi asesu, a wnaethoch chi ystyried, a wnaethoch chi hyd yn oed sylweddoli’r effaith y byddai hynny’n ei chael, nid yn unig ar y sefydliadau addysg bellach dan sylw, ond ar gymdeithas Cymru a’r nodau llesiant yn fwy cyffredinol, a nodwyd, fel y dywedoch chi, yn adroddiad ColegauCymru?
Well, thank you for highlighting the report as well, Llyr, and I was able to speak at the launch, which was a really positive experience, and we believe that social value is implicit in all the activities of FE colleges and that, through their work, they're bringing the well-being of future generations goals to life. And you're absolutely right to highlight mental health, and there's been particularly good work around support for learners in FE in particular, and I'm really keen to see that continue.
As you're aware, our budget is worth £700 million less than at the time of the last spending review, so it was a very difficult budget round for us. Reductions to the post-16 provision budget expenditure line have, wherever possible, been directed so as not to impact learners. A change management fund has been created to ensure that no FE college has seen more than a 1 per cent reduction in funding in 2024-25, when compared to 2023-24. And the 2024-25 mainstream further education and sixth-form budgets reflect a 3.5 per cent increase provided to the unit rate of funding, and this is in line with recommendations from the Independent Welsh Pay Review Body.
Wel, diolch am dynnu sylw at yr adroddiad hefyd, Llyr, a gallais siarad yn y lansiad, a oedd yn brofiad cadarnhaol iawn, a chredwn fod gwerth cymdeithasol ymhlyg yn holl weithgareddau colegau addysg bellach a'u bod, drwy eu gwaith, yn dod â nodau llesiant cenedlaethau'r dyfodol yn fyw. Ac rydych chi'n iawn i dynnu sylw at iechyd meddwl, ac mae gwaith arbennig o dda wedi'i wneud ynghylch cymorth i ddysgwyr mewn addysg bellach yn enwedig, ac rwy'n awyddus iawn i weld hynny'n parhau.
Fel y gwyddoch, mae ein cyllideb yn werth £700 miliwn yn llai nag ar adeg yr adolygiad o wariant diwethaf, felly roedd yn gylch cyllidebol anodd iawn i ni. Lle bynnag y bo modd, mae gostyngiadau i linell wariant darpariaeth ôl-16 yn y gyllideb wedi’u cyfeirio yn y fath fodd fel nad ydynt yn effeithio ar ddysgwyr. Mae cronfa reoli newid wedi’i chreu i sicrhau nad oes unrhyw goleg addysg bellach wedi cael mwy nag 1 y cant o ostyngiad yn eu cyllid yn 2024-25, o gymharu â 2023-24. Ac mae cyllidebau addysg bellach brif ffrwd a dosbarthiadau chwech ar gyfer 2024-25 yn adlewyrchu cynnydd o 3.5 y cant i'r gyfradd cyllid fesul uned, ac mae hyn yn unol ag argymhellion gan Gorff Adolygu Cyflogau Annibynnol Cymru.
7. A wnaiff yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet ddatganiad am ei blaenoriaethau ar gyfer ysgolion ym Mlaenau Gwent? OQ61257
7. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on her priorities for schools in Blaenau Gwent? OQ61257
My priorities for schools in Blaenau Gwent include raising levels of attainment and closing the gap for our poorest learners.
Mae fy mlaenoriaethau ar gyfer ysgolion ym Mlaenau Gwent yn cynnwys codi lefelau cyrhaeddiad a chau’r bwlch ar gyfer ein dysgwyr tlotaf.
I'm grateful to the Cabinet Secretary for that. I hope one of her priorities is also supporting learners with additional learning needs. Members may remember, in a previous life, it was the Cabinet Secretary who chaired the committee on that legislation, and I was a Minister, and one of the things that we both agreed on, Cabinet Secretary, on that legislation, was that it had to deliver a sea change in the experience of learning for people with additional learning needs. And what I also think we would both agree on today is that the legislation has not delivered on some of those ambitions.
I'd be grateful if the Cabinet Secretary this afternoon would confirm one of the guiding principles, if you like, of that legislation, in that people do not require a diagnosis to receive support for their needs. But also, will the Cabinet Secretary ensure that schools do have the resources that they require to deliver on the ambition, which I think is shared across the whole of the Chamber, on all sides of the Chamber? Because all too often, I'm speaking to parents who have children with very real needs, and those needs are not being met, because the resources are simply not available. It breaks my heart sometimes to listen to the stories of parents, who are fighting hard for their children and who deserve the support to flourish, as we'd want to see for all our children, wherever we live in the country.
Rwy’n ddiolchgar i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet am hynny. Rwy'n gobeithio mai un o’i blaenoriaethau yw cefnogi dysgwyr ag anghenion dysgu ychwanegol hefyd. Efallai y bydd yr Aelodau’n cofio, mewn bywyd blaenorol, mai Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet a gadeiriodd y pwyllgor ar y ddeddfwriaeth honno, ac roeddwn i'n Weinidog, ac un o’r pethau yr oedd y ddau ohonom yn cytuno arnynt, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, yn y ddeddfwriaeth honno, oedd bod yn rhaid iddi sicrhau newid sylfaenol yn y profiad o ddysgu i bobl ag anghenion dysgu ychwanegol. A’r hyn y credaf y byddai’r ddau ohonom yn cytuno arno heddiw hefyd yw nad yw’r ddeddfwriaeth wedi cyflawni rhai o’r uchelgeisiau hynny.
Byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe gallai Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet gadarnhau y prynhawn yma un o egwyddorion arweiniol, os mynnwch, y ddeddfwriaeth honno, sef nad oes angen diagnosis ar bobl i gael cymorth ar gyfer eu hanghenion. Ond hefyd, a wnaiff Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet sicrhau bod gan ysgolion yr adnoddau sydd eu hangen arnynt i gyflawni'r uchelgais, y credaf ei fod wedi ei rannu ar draws y Siambr gyfan, ar bob ochr i'r Siambr? Oherwydd yn rhy aml o lawer, rwy'n siarad â rhieni sydd â phlant ag anghenion real iawn, ac nid yw'r anghenion hynny'n cael eu diwallu am nad yw'r adnoddau ar gael. Rwy’n torri fy nghalon weithiau wrth wrando ar straeon rhieni sy’n brwydro’n galed dros eu plant ac sy’n haeddu’r gefnogaeth i ffynnu, fel yr hoffem ei weld yn digwydd ar gyfer ein plant i gyd, ni waeth ble yn y wlad rydym yn byw.
Can I thank Alun Davies for that question and confirm that, indeed, ALN is very much a priority for me, which I have already said several times in the Chamber? I don't agree with your rather bleak assessment of how the reforms are going. I think I've been very honest in the Chamber and with the committee, that there are challenges, and those challenges are twofold: the president of the tribunal has been clear that she believes that the legislation itself is intellectually challenging, so we are working on how we address any inconsistencies arising from the legislation, but there are also undoubtedly challenges with consistent implementation, and I'm also very much prioritising that.
You are absolutely right that a diagnosis is not required for a child to receive additional learning provision, and we've been very clear about that for some time. It's also not required for them to receive an individual development plan. In terms of funding, I'm sure you're well aware that we've prioritised funding for ALN implementation. Since 2020, we've invested over £60 million in revenue to support implementation, and this year alone there's been around £54 million budgeted for ALN provision. But I do acknowledge we've got more work to do in terms of making sure that these much-needed reforms are implemented consistently and effectively across Wales.
A gaf i ddiolch i Alun Davies am ei gwestiwn a chadarnhau, yn wir, fod ADY yn flaenoriaeth bwysig i mi, fel y dywedais sawl gwaith yn y Siambr eisoes? Nid wyf yn cytuno â’ch asesiad braidd yn llwm o hynt y diwygiadau. Credaf fy mod wedi bod yn onest iawn yn y Siambr a chyda’r pwyllgor, fod heriau'n bodoli, ac mae’r heriau hynny’n ddeublyg: mae llywydd y tribiwnlys wedi nodi'n glir ei bod yn credu bod y ddeddfwriaeth ei hun yn heriol yn ddeallusol, felly rydym yn gweithio ar sut yr awn i’r afael ag unrhyw anghysondebau sy’n deillio o’r ddeddfwriaeth, ond heb os, ceir heriau hefyd o ran gweithredu cyson, ac rwy'n rhoi blaenoriaeth i hynny yn ogystal.
Rydych yn llygad eich lle nad oes angen diagnosis er mwyn i blentyn gael darpariaeth ddysgu ychwanegol, ac rydym wedi dweud hynny'n glir iawn ers peth amser. Nid yw'n ofynnol ychwaith iddynt gael cynllun datblygu unigol. O ran cyllid, rwy’n siŵr eich bod yn ymwybodol iawn ein bod wedi blaenoriaethu cyllid ar gyfer gweithredu ADY. Ers 2020, rydym wedi buddsoddi dros £60 miliwn mewn refeniw i gefnogi gweithrediad, ac eleni yn unig, mae oddeutu £54 miliwn wedi'i gyllidebu ar gyfer darpariaeth ADY. Ond rwy'n cydnabod bod mwy o waith gennym i'w wneud ar sicrhau bod y diwygiadau mawr eu hangen hyn yn cael eu rhoi ar waith yn gyson ac yn effeithiol ledled Cymru.
Ac yn olaf, cwestiwn 8, Paul Davies.
Finally, question 8, Paul Davies.
8. Beth mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i wella'r system addysg ym Mhreseli Sir Benfro? OQ61226
8. What is the Welsh Government doing to improve the education system in Preseli Pembrokeshire? OQ61226
Last month, I set out my priorities for Wales's education system. At its heart is a continued commitment to our education reforms, with a focus on improving educational standards across Wales, putting equity, inclusion and well-being at the centre.
Fis diwethaf, nodais fy mlaenoriaethau ar gyfer system addysg Cymru. Yn ganolog iddi, mae ymrwymiad parhaus i’n diwygiadau addysg, gyda ffocws ar wella safonau addysgol ledled Cymru, gan flaenoriaethu tegwch, cynhwysiant a llesiant.
Thank you for that, Cabinet Secretary. As you'll be aware, this week is Carers Week, and in an effort to raise awareness and provide vital support for young carers, Milford Haven School in my constituency has launched the Young Carers project. The project began in 2021 and now supports over 80 young carers who attend secondary school. It's thought that around 40 per cent of young and young adult carers don't get the help they need to balance caring with their studies, and as a result one in three young and young adult carers struggle to balance caring responsibilities with their education. So, Cabinet Secretary, what steps is the Welsh Government taking to improve the education system for young and young adult carers so that they can actually receive the support they need throughout their educational journey?
Diolch, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Fel y gwyddoch, yr wythnos hon yw Wythnos Gofalwyr, ac mewn ymdrech i godi ymwybyddiaeth a darparu cymorth hanfodol i ofalwyr ifanc, mae Ysgol Aberdaugleddau yn fy etholaeth wedi lansio prosiect Gofalwyr Ifanc. Dechreuodd y prosiect yn 2021, ac mae bellach yn cefnogi dros 80 o ofalwyr ifanc sy’n mynychu ysgol uwchradd. Credir nad yw oddeutu 40 y cant o ofalwyr ifanc ac oedolion ifanc sy'n ofalwyr yn cael y cymorth sydd ei angen arnynt i gydbwyso gofalu â'u hastudiaethau, ac o ganlyniad, mae un o bob tri gofalwr ifanc ac oedolyn ifanc sy'n ofalwr yn ei chael hi'n anodd cydbwyso cyfrifoldebau gofalu â'u haddysg. Felly, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i wella'r system addysg ar gyfer gofalwyr ifanc ac oedolion ifanc sy'n ofalwyr fel y gallant gael y cymorth sydd ei angen arnynt drwy gydol eu taith addysgol?
Thank you, Paul. Congratulations to the school in Milford Haven for the work that they're doing in this area; it is a really important area to work in. Young carers face very many challenges, and there is a real need to raise awareness. Supporting young carers has been a priority for the Government. You'll be aware that there is a young carer ID card that is in operation, and we recently considered additional funding to support the implementation of that in schools. We're also looking at what more we can do to raise awareness of the needs of young carers, because it's not just identifying who are young carers; it's about understanding the full complexity of their needs. One of the things that I'm also really keen to do in the work that I'm taking forward on the whole-school approach to mental health is to make sure that the work for young carers is fully joined up with that, as well as care-experienced young people.
Diolch, Paul. Llongyfarchiadau i'r ysgol yn Aberdaugleddau am y gwaith a wnânt yn y maes hwn; mae'n faes pwysig iawn i weithio ynddo. Mae gofalwyr ifanc yn wynebu llawer iawn o heriau, ac mae gwir angen codi ymwybyddiaeth. Mae cefnogi gofalwyr ifanc wedi bod yn flaenoriaeth i’r Llywodraeth. Fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol fod cerdyn adnabod gofalwyr ifanc ar waith, ac yn ddiweddar, fe wnaethom ystyried cyllid ychwanegol i gefnogi’r gwaith o'i gyflwyno mewn ysgolion. Rydym hefyd yn edrych ar beth arall y gallwn ei wneud i godi ymwybyddiaeth o anghenion gofalwyr ifanc, gan fod hyn yn ymwneud â mwy na nodi pwy sy'n ofalwyr ifanc yn unig; mae'n ymwneud â deall cymhlethdod llawn eu hanghenion. Un o'r pethau rwy'n awyddus iawn i'w gwneud hefyd yn y gwaith rwy'n bwrw ymlaen ag ef ar y dull ysgol gyfan o ymdrin ag iechyd meddwl yw sicrhau bod y gwaith ar gyfer gofalwyr ifanc yn gwbl gydgysylltiedig â hynny, yn ogystal ag ar gyfer pobl ifanc â phrofiad o fod mewn gofal.
Diolch yn fawr i'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet.
Thank you, Cabinet Secretary.
Yr eitem nesaf fydd y cwestiwn amserol. Mae'r cwestiwn yma i'w ateb gan yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet dros iechyd, ac i'w ofyn gan Mabon ap Gwynfor.
The next item will be the topical question. It's to be answered by the Cabinet Secretary for health and to be asked by Mabon ap Gwynfor.
1. A wnaiff yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet ddatganiad am gynnig cyflog diwygiedig Llywodraeth Cymru i BMA Cymru? TQ1107
1. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on the Welsh Government's revised pay offer to BMA Cymru? TQ1107
Yn dilyn trafodaethau cadarn gyda'r BMA, dwi'n falch i allu adrodd bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gwneud cynigion sylweddol o ran cyflog i feddygon iau, meddygon SAS, a meddygon ymgynghorol, gyda golwg ar ddod â streiciau i ben ac ar wella gwasanaethau i gleifion. Mae'r cynigion yn sicrhau bod y cyflog ychwanegol wedi'i bwyso yn erbyn ymrwymiadau ynghylch diwygio, a fydd yn anelu i sicrhau gwelliannau o ran cynhyrchiant ac effeithlonrwydd ac i sicrhau diwygiadau i'r cytundeb yn y dyfodol. Dwi'n falch iawn bod pwyllgorau BMA Cymru wedi cytuno i argymell y cynnig i'w haelodau yn y bleidlais a fydd yn agor heddiw, ac fe fyddwn yn derbyn canlyniad y bleidlais honno ar 27 Mehefin.
Following robust negotiations with the BMA, I'm pleased to report that the Welsh Government has made substantial offers in terms of salaries to junior doctors, SAS doctors and consultants, with a view to bringing strikes to an end and improving services to patients. The offers ensure that the additional salary is weighed against commitments on reform, which will aim to get improvements in terms of productivity and efficiency and to secure reforms to the contract in the future. I am delighted that the BMA Cymru committees have agreed to recommend this to their members in the vote that will open today, and we will receive the result of that vote on 27 June.
Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (David Rees) i’r Gadair.
The Deputy Presiding Officer (David Rees) took the Chair.
Diolch i'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet am yr ateb yna. Dwi'n croesawu'r ffaith bod y Llywodraeth wedi dod i gytundeb gyda'r BMA dros dâl i feddygon iau, ymgynghorol ac SAS. Mae wedi bod yn frwydr hir i'r meddygon yma, ac mae'n resyn, mewn gwirionedd, eu bod nhw wedi gorfod ymladd yn erbyn Llywodraeth Lafur er mwyn sicrhau tâl ac amodau gwell. Ond dyna ni, nid yr un ydy'r Blaid Lafur yma heddiw â beth oedd yma pan ffurfiwyd y blaid er mwyn ymladd dros hawliau gweithwyr ganrif a chwarter yn ôl. Unwaith eto, rydyn ni wedi gorfod aros i'r Llywodraeth Lafur yma dynnu cwningen allan o het ar ôl mynnu dros fisoedd maith nad oedd yna arian ychwanegol ar gael. Y cyfan gwnaethon nhw oedd gwastraffu amser, oedi, creu straen diangen ar y meddygon a'u cydweithwyr a'r gwasanaeth iechyd, a thalu mwy allan yn y diwedd na beth fyddai'r gost wedi bod petaen nhw wedi cytuno i delerau gwell reit ar y cychwyn.
Felly er eich bod chi wedi dweud nad oedd yna arian ar gael yn wreiddiol, mae’n amlwg eich bod chi wedi ffeindio soffa newydd i dwrio i lawr yn ei gefn. Mae angen ichi fod yn glir gyda’r cyhoedd o ble mae'r arian yma wedi dod, ac esbonio pam ei fod o wedi cymryd cyhyd er mwyn ffeindio’r arian. Yntau ai cam sinigaidd sydd gennym ni fan hyn er mwyn creu newyddion da i'r Prif Weinidog, neu hyd yn oed ddylanwadu ar yr etholiad cyffredinol? Mae tryloywder a gonestrwydd ar y pwynt yma yn bwysig, oherwydd mae’r dewis yma yn cael goblygiadau amlwg ar statws negodiadau tâl yn ardaloedd eraill o’r gweithlu.
Dro ar ôl tro mae cynrychiolwyr y gweithlu, megis yr RCN, wedi derbyn yr ateb gan y Llywodraeth nad oedd yna arian ychwanegol i gyflwyno ar gyfer cytundebau teg i nyrsys, er enghraifft, ac fe wnaeth yr RCN, yn yr achos yma, dderbyn eich gair chi mewn ffydd dda. Ond mae'r haeriad yna a wnaed i gyrff eraill fel yr RCN bellach yn amlwg yn mynd yn gwbl groes i beth mae’r Llywodraeth wedi llwyddo ei wneud rŵan gyda’r BMA. Gadewch inni fod yn glir, nid gosod un grŵp o’r gweithlu yn erbyn y llall yr ydym ni fan hyn, ond yn hytrach yn ceisio dod at y gwir a sicrhau gonestrwydd, tryloywder a chysondeb. Felly beth sy'n wahanol o ran eich negodi gyda’r RCN a chyrff cynrychioladol eraill o’i gymharu gyda'r BMA sy’n golygu nad oes yna arian ychwanegol ar gael gyfer nyrsys Cymru?
I thank the Cabinet Secretary for that answer. I welcome the fact that the Government has reached an agreement with the BMA over pay for junior doctors, consultants and SAS doctors. It's been a long battle for the doctors here, and it's regrettable that they've had to fight against a Labour Government in order to secure better pay and conditions. But there we are, this is not the same Labour Party as the one that was formed to fight for the rights of the workforce a century and a quarter ago. Once again, we've had to wait for this Labour Government to pull a rabbit out of a hat, after having insisted for many months that there was no additional money available. All they did was waste time, delay, put unnecessary stress on the doctors and their colleagues and the health service, and pay out more in the end than what the cost would have been if they had agreed to better terms at the outset.
So, even though you said that there was no money available originally, it's clear that you've found a new sofa to look down the back of. You need to be clear with the public regarding where this money has come from, and you need to explain why it has taken so long to find the money. Is it a cynical move that we have here to create good headlines for the First Minister, or even to influence the general election? Transparency and honesty on this point is vital, because this choice has clear implications regarding the status of pay negotiations in other areas of the workforce.
Time and time again representatives of the workforce, such as those from the RCN, have been told by the Government that there was no additional money to bring in a fair contract for nurses, for example, and the RCN, in this case, took your word in good faith. But this assertion made to other bodies now clearly runs counter to what the Government has managed to do now with the BMA. Let's be clear about this, this is not about pitting one group of the workforce against another. Instead, it's about trying to get to the truth and ensure honesty, transparency and consistency. So what is different about your negotiations with the RCN and other representative bodies compared to the BMA that has meant that there is no extra money avaiable for nurses in Wales?
Thank you very much. I'm sure, if the Member was paying attention, he would have recognised that, actually, some money came in in the form of—[Interruption.]
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Pe bai’r Aelod yn talu sylw, rwy’n siŵr y byddai wedi cydnabod bod rhywfaint o arian wedi'i ddarparu ar ffurf—[Torri ar draws.]
That was me, I'm sorry.
Fi oedd hynny, mae'n ddrwg gennyf.
Oh, I see. I shall carry on. You'll recognise that, actually, the money came in in the form of consequentials right at the end of the financial year. What had happened is that money had been put into reserves, and we've taken some money now out of reserves in order to settle the pay. And let's not forget that this is about last year's pay award.
We entered the negotiations before there was any suggestion that there was going to be a general election. We entered because, obviously, we work in close social partnership with the unions, unlike in the rest of the United Kingdom. It demonstrates that, actually, when you sit down and you negotiate—. And I hope that the Conservatives are watching, because in the UK, they have called and said that they will be taking industrial action, the junior doctors. It demonstrates that when you sit down, you listen and you negotiate, you can come to a conclusion.
Of course, we were pleased that we were able to settle with the RCN earlier on in the year. I'm sure you recognise, and I hope you recognise—and I think it is important that there should be a recognition—that, actually, the junior doctors absolutely deserved a pay increase. And it's probably just worth reflecting on the fact that a junior doctor, after five years in medical school, was earning £28,471, which was less than a nurse at band 5 level, that earned £28,834. So, I'm sure that there will be people who are actually really happy that we have come to this offer.
Let me be absolutely clear that this is not an unconditional offer, that we have ensured that there will be operational reforms to address issues like productivity and efficiency. And, of course, we have had a commitment to achieving future contract reform. The key thing here is to remember that this isn't all about the doctors—it's actually about the patients. We're interested in getting the very best deal for the patients, and that is what I hope we've got as a result of this offer.
O, rwy'n gweld. Fe wnaf barhau. Fe fyddwch yn cydnabod, mewn gwirionedd, fod yr arian wedi'i ddarparu ar ffurf cyllid canlyniadol ar ddiwedd y flwyddyn ariannol. Yr hyn a ddigwyddodd yw bod arian wedi'i roi yn y cronfeydd wrth gefn, ac rydym bellach wedi tynnu rhywfaint o arian o'r cronfeydd wrth gefn er mwyn setlo'r tâl. A gadewch inni beidio ag anghofio bod hyn yn ymwneud â dyfarniad cyflog y llynedd.
Fe wnaethom ddechrau'r trafodaethau cyn unrhyw awgrym y byddai etholiad cyffredinol yn cael ei gynnal. Fe wnaethom eu dechrau oherwydd, yn amlwg, rydym yn gweithio mewn partneriaeth gymdeithasol agos â’r undebau, yn wahanol i weddill y Deyrnas Unedig. Mae'n dangos, mewn gwirionedd, pan fyddwch yn cyfarfod i negodi—. Ac rwy'n gobeithio bod y Ceidwadwyr yn gwylio, oherwydd yn y DU, maent wedi galw a dweud y byddant yn gweithredu’n ddiwydiannol, y meddygon iau. Mae'n dangos, pan fyddwch yn cyfarfod, yn gwrando ac yn negodi, y gallwch ddod i gytundeb.
Wrth gwrs, roeddem yn falch ein bod wedi gallu setlo gyda’r Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol yn gynharach yn y flwyddyn. Rwy'n siŵr eich bod yn cydnabod, ac rwy'n gobeithio eich bod yn cydnabod—a chredaf ei bod yn bwysig fod cydnabyddiaeth—fod y meddygon iau yn llawn haeddu codiad cyflog mewn gwirionedd. Ac mae'n debyg ei bod yn werth ystyried y ffaith bod meddyg iau, ar ôl pum mlynedd mewn ysgol feddygol, yn ennill £28,471, a oedd yn llai na nyrs ar lefel band 5, a oedd yn ennill £28,834. Felly, rwy’n siŵr y bydd rhai pobl wrth eu boddau ein bod wedi cytuno ar y cynnig hwn.
Gadewch imi ddweud yn gwbl glir nad yw hwn yn gynnig diamod, ein bod wedi sicrhau y bydd diwygiadau gweithredol i fynd i'r afael â materion fel cynhyrchiant ac effeithlonrwydd. Ac wrth gwrs, rydym wedi cael ymrwymiad i sicrhau y gellir diwygio contractau yn y dyfodol. Y peth allweddol yma yw cofio bod hyn oll yn ymwneud â mwy na'r meddygon—mae'n ymwneud â'r cleifion mewn gwirionedd. Mae gennym ddiddordeb mewn cael y fargen orau oll i’r cleifion, ac rwy'n gobeithio ein bod wedi cael hynny o ganlyniad i’r cynnig hwn.
It's great news you've come to the agreement with the BMA. Cabinet Secretary, I note your response to Mabon, but the fact that you were able to find funding for this enhanced pay offer now begs the question as to why was this not possible earlier. The people of Wales, our constituents, are facing the most inhumane waits for treatment, and while the Welsh Government was considering its options, those people have been forced to live in pain and discomfort. Welsh Labour has been at the helm of the Welsh NHS for a quarter of a century. Rather than blaming everyone else, will you now admit your failings on health and care? Cabinet Secretary, will you now agree to spend the full Barnett uplift received for health on health, and put an end to inhumane two-year waits in Wales?
Mae'n newyddion gwych eich bod wedi dod i gytundeb gyda Chymdeithas Feddygol Prydain. Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, nodaf eich ymateb i Mabon, ond mae’r ffaith ichi allu dod o hyd i gyllid ar gyfer y cynnig cyflog gwell hwn yn codi’r cwestiwn nawr pam na fu hyn yn bosibl yn gynharach. Mae pobl Cymru, ein hetholwyr, yn wynebu’r amseroedd aros mwyaf annynol am driniaeth, a thra bo Llywodraeth Cymru yn ystyried ei hopsiynau, mae’r bobl hynny wedi’u gorfodi i fyw mewn poen ac anghysur. Mae Llafur Cymru wedi bod wrth y llyw gyda'r GIG yng Nghymru ers chwarter canrif. Yn hytrach na beio pawb arall, a wnewch chi gyfaddef eich methiannau ym maes iechyd a gofal? Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, a wnewch chi gytuno i wario’r codiad Barnett cyfan a ddaeth i law ar gyfer iechyd ar iechyd, a rhoi diwedd ar amseroedd aros annynol o ddwy flynedd yng Nghymru?
Thanks very much. I'm afraid, Altaf, I'll have to repeat what I said to Mabon, which is that it was your Conservative Government that didn't give us the money until the last few weeks of the financial year. We can't plan on that basis, and so we had to put that money into reserve. We've taken that money now out of reserve in order to fulfil our commitment in order to put this money on the table. Let me remind you, Altaf, that it's your Conservative Government that is facing industrial action in England in the days before a general election. If you think that is a good idea, good luck to you. But I think it is important, also, that there is an understanding that that negotiation was a really tough one. It hasn't been easy. I'd like to thank the negotiators on both sides for the strenuous efforts that they have made, and I think that what we're getting is not just—. They're not getting just an increase in pay; we are getting a huge amount in return as well for the patients in Wales, and that commitment to contract reform is absolutely important. You will know, as a former consultant yourself, that the BMA rate card is pretty expensive. And one of the things that they've agreed with us is that they will withdraw the BMA rate cards as a result of this negotiation. That is good for the taxpayers of Wales, it is good for the patients of Wales, and more operations will be done as a result of that.
Diolch yn fawr. Mae arnaf ofn, Altaf, y bydd yn rhaid imi ailadrodd yr hyn a ddywedais wrth Mabon, sef na roddodd eich Llywodraeth Geidwadol chi yr arian i ni tan wythnosau olaf y flwyddyn ariannol. Ni allwn gynllunio ar y sail honno, ac felly bu’n rhaid inni roi’r arian hwnnw yn y gronfa wrth gefn. Rydym wedi tynnu'r arian hwnnw o'r gronfa wrth gefn bellach er mwyn cyflawni ein hymrwymiad i roi'r arian hwn ar y bwrdd. Gadewch imi eich atgoffa, Altaf, mai eich Llywodraeth Geidwadol chi sy’n wynebu gweithredu diwydiannol yn Lloegr yn y dyddiau cyn etholiad cyffredinol. Os ydych chi'n credu bod hynny'n syniad da, pob lwc i chi. Ond credaf ei bod yn bwysig, hefyd, y ceir dealltwriaeth fod y negodi hwnnw wedi bod yn anodd iawn. Nid yw wedi bod yn hawdd. Hoffwn ddiolch i'r negodwyr ar y ddwy ochr am eu hymdrechion llafurus, a chredaf fod yr hyn rydym yn ei gael nid yn unig—. Nid codiad cyflog yn unig y maent yn ei gael; rydym yn cael swm enfawr yn gyfnewid hefyd i gleifion Cymru, ac mae’r ymrwymiad i ddiwygio contractau yn sicr yn bwysig. Fel cyn-feddyg ymgynghorol eich hun, fe fyddwch yn gwybod bod cerdyn cyfraddau Cymdeithas Feddygol Prydain yn eithaf drud. Ac un o'r pethau y maent wedi cytuno arnynt gyda ni yw y byddant yn cael gwared ar gardiau cyfraddau Cymdeithas Feddygol Prydain o ganlyniad i'r negodi hwn. Mae hynny’n dda i drethdalwyr Cymru, mae’n dda i gleifion Cymru, a bydd mwy o lawdriniaethau’n cael eu gwneud o ganlyniad i hynny.
I wanted to focus on some of the periphery issues around this as well in terms of recruitment and retention of medical professionals. Because often, when I'm approached in the constituency and nationally—I've taken a lot of responsibility for health services—it's actually the periphery issues around this sometimes, in terms of IT systems and migration, and attracting staff into Wales from other parts of the UK. Often, a barrier to that is sometimes the difference in some IT systems and periphery issues that put staff off in terms of being attracted into Wales. So, are there any discussions going on between the Welsh Government and external stakeholders and partners to ensure we do have some fluidity within the system so people can indeed feel attracted to Wales and not be put off by periphery issues that can sometimes be a barrier to recruitment and retention within the medical profession across the NHS and other sectors as well?
Roeddwn am ganolbwyntio ar rai o’r materion ymylol sy'n ymwneud â hyn hefyd o ran recriwtio a chadw gweithwyr meddygol proffesiynol. Oherwydd yn aml, pan gysylltir â mi yn yr etholaeth ac yn genedlaethol—rwyf wedi cymryd llawer o gyfrifoldeb am wasanaethau iechyd—mae'n ymwneud â'r materion ymylol sy'n gysylltiedig â hyn weithiau, o ran systemau TG a mudo, a denu staff o rannau eraill o'r DU i Gymru. Yn aml, rhwystr i hynny yw’r gwahaniaeth rhwng rhai systemau TG a materion ymylol sy’n atal staff rhag cael eu denu i Gymru. Felly, a oes unrhyw drafodaethau ar y gweill rhwng Llywodraeth Cymru a rhanddeiliaid a phartneriaid allanol i sicrhau bod gennym rywfaint o hylifedd o fewn y system fel y gellir denu pobl i Gymru ac nad ydynt yn cael eu perswadio i beidio â gwneud hynny gan faterion ymylol a all fod yn rhwystr weithiau rhag recriwtio a chadw staff o fewn y proffesiwn meddygol ar draws y GIG a sectorau eraill hefyd?
Thanks very much, Gareth. You're quite right. Doctors want to work in a modernised system, and that is certainly something that I'm very keen to do. We've got to remember that there is one pot of money here, so if I'm giving it to the doctors, it's very difficult for me to modernise and to do the digital upgrades that I would like to do as well. So, there is a payoff here. Every time we give money to one section, there's another section that is going to have to do without. That is the difficulty in terms of the situation we're in, where we have a restricted budget. Obviously, that's what we're keen to do. I'm really keen to do digital transformation. That's how we're going to get some of the productivity gains that we're very anxious to get. But the fact is that we have agreed with, for example, the BMA Welsh consultants committee, that now is the time to reform the current pay structure, which is more than 20 years old. The good thing about that, and you asked about retention, is that a modern pay structure is going to be better in terms of support and recruitment, but also to address the gender pay gap, which has been evident. So, we're hoping that this will address that. And, another issue in relation to what happens in the future is that we're going to be looking at a contract that can be used across the whole of Wales, and I think that might be quite interesting in terms of consultants being able to move from health board to health board. So, there is some real progress being done, I think, in relation to this. Thank you.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Gareth. Rydych chi'n llygad eich lle. Mae meddygon yn awyddus i weithio mewn system sydd wedi'i moderneiddio, ac mae hynny'n sicr yn rhywbeth rwy'n awyddus iawn i'w wneud. Mae'n rhaid inni gofio mai un pot o arian sydd yma, felly os wyf yn ei roi i'r meddygon, mae'n anodd iawn imi foderneiddio a gwneud y gwaith uwchraddio digidol yr hoffwn ei wneud hefyd. Felly, mae'n rhaid pwyso a mesur yma. Bob tro y rhoddwn arian i un adran, mae adran arall yn mynd i orfod gwneud heb. Dyna sy'n anodd am y sefyllfa rydym ynddi, lle mae gennym gyllideb gyfyngedig. Yn amlwg, dyna rydym yn awyddus i’w wneud. Rwy'n awyddus iawn i sicrhau trawsnewid digidol. Dyna sut y gwnawn sicrhau rhai o'r enillion cynhyrchiant yr ydym yn awyddus iawn i'w gweld. Ond y ffaith amdani yw ein bod wedi cytuno, er enghraifft, â phwyllgor meddygon ymgynghorol BMA Cymru, mai nawr yw’r amser i ddiwygio’r strwythur cyflogau presennol, sydd dros 20 mlwydd oed. Y peth da am hynny, ac fe holoch chi ynglŷn â chadw staff, yw bod strwythur cyflog modern yn mynd i fod yn well o ran cymorth a recriwtio, ond hefyd i fynd i’r afael â’r bwlch cyflog rhwng y rhywiau, sydd wedi bod yn amlwg. Felly, rydym yn gobeithio y bydd hyn yn mynd i'r afael â hynny. A mater arall mewn perthynas â'r hyn sy'n digwydd yn y dyfodol yw y byddwn yn edrych ar gontract y gellir ei ddefnyddio ledled Cymru gyfan, a chredaf y gallai hynny fod yn eithaf diddorol o ran meddygon ymgynghorol yn gallu symud o un bwrdd iechyd i'r llall. Felly, rwy'n credu bod cynnydd go iawn i'w weld mewn perthynas â hyn. Diolch.
Diolch i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet.
Thank you, Cabinet Secretary.
Eitem 4 heddiw yw'r datganiadau 90 eiliad, a bydd y datganiad cyntaf gan Altaf Hussain.
Item 4 this afternoon is the 90-second statements, and the first statement is from Altaf Hussain.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. This week we mark Carers Week 2024. Carers Week is aimed at raising awareness of the challenges faced by unpaid carers across the nation and recognises the enormous contribution they make. But, more importantly, it is about ensuring that the voices of unpaid carers are heard. The theme of this year's Carers Week is 'putting carers on the map', which aims to ensure that everyone, from the policy makers to employers and service providers, recognise and support our unpaid carers. They don't have a choice but to care, but we have a choice to support them. Research shows that there are over a third of a million unpaid carers in Wales and they collectively save the public purse over £10.5 billion a year. So, let's all say a huge 'thank you' to our unpaid carers and offer to better support them in the future. Diolch yn fawr.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Yr wythnos hon rydym yn nodi Wythnos Gofalwyr 2024. Nod Wythnos Gofalwyr yw codi ymwybyddiaeth o'r heriau sy'n wynebu gofalwyr di-dâl ledled y wlad ac mae'n cydnabod y cyfraniad enfawr y maent yn ei wneud. Ond yn bwysicach fyth, mae'n ymwneud â sicrhau bod lleisiau gofalwyr di-dâl yn cael eu clywed. Thema Wythnos Gofalwyr eleni yw 'rhoi gofalwyr ar y map', sy'n ceisio sicrhau bod pawb, o'r llunwyr polisi i gyflogwyr a darparwyr gwasanaethau, yn cydnabod ac yn cefnogi ein gofalwyr di-dâl. Nid oes ganddynt hwy ddewis ond gofalu, ond mae gennym ni ddewis i'w cefnogi. Mae ymchwil yn dangos bod dros draean o filiwn o ofalwyr di-dâl yng Nghymru a chyda'i gilydd maent yn arbed dros £10.5 biliwn y flwyddyn i'r pwrs cyhoeddus. Felly, gadewch i bawb ohonom ddweud 'diolch' enfawr wrth ein gofalwyr di-dâl a chynnig eu cefnogi'n well yn y dyfodol. Diolch yn fawr.
This year marks the two-hundredth anniversary of the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. Having been founded on 16 June 1824 by a small group of pioneers in a London coffee shop, the RSPCA has grown to become the UK's largest animal welfare charity and the oldest organisation of its kind in the world. For two centuries, the RSPCA has existed to inspire a better world for every kind of animal, while rescuing the most vulnerable animals in our society from all forms of unimaginable cruelty and neglect.
Last week I joined John Littlewood, one of the RSPCA's animal rescue officers, for the afternoon to find out more of the important work of those at the very forefront of the charity's work in Wales. And John was able to offer constructive advice and assistance after inspecting the animals, with follow-up visits arranged.
And this is a big week for those of us in the Senedd focused on improving animal welfare, as we also celebrate 100 years of the League Against Cruel Sports. Since 1924 the league has been fighting to give a voice to animals that suffer in silence in the name of so-called sport. Along their journey, the league has successfully campaigned for legal protections for otters and badgers, while also exposing the cruelty of hunting.
Thank you to all the staff and volunteers over generations from both charities, who have dedicated themselves to improving the lives of animals right across the UK.
Eleni yw dau ganmlwyddiant y Gymdeithas Frenhinol er Atal Creulondeb i Anifeiliaid. Sefydlwyd yr RSPCA ar 16 Mehefin 1824 gan grŵp bach o arloeswyr mewn siop goffi yn Llundain, ac mae wedi tyfu i fod yn elusen lles anifeiliaid fwyaf y DU a'r sefydliad hynaf o'i fath yn y byd. Ers dwy ganrif, mae'r RSPCA wedi bodoli i ysbrydoli byd gwell ar gyfer pob math o anifail, gan achub yr anifeiliaid mwyaf agored i niwed yn ein cymdeithas rhag pob math o greulondeb ac esgeulustod annirnadwy.
Yr wythnos diwethaf ymunais â John Littlewood, un o swyddogion achub anifeiliaid yr RSPCA, am y prynhawn i ddarganfod mwy am waith pwysig y rhai sydd ar y rheng flaen yng ngwaith yr elusen yng Nghymru. Ac roedd John yn gallu cynnig cyngor adeiladol a chymorth ar ôl archwilio'r anifeiliaid, a threfnu ymweliadau dilynol.
Ac mae hon yn wythnos fawr i'r rhai ohonom yn y Senedd sy'n canolbwyntio ar wella lles anifeiliaid, gan ein bod hefyd yn dathlu 100 mlynedd o'r Gynghrair yn Erbyn Chwaraeon Creulon. Ers 1924 mae'r gynghrair wedi bod yn brwydro i roi llais i anifeiliaid sy'n dioddef yn dawel yn enw chwaraeon fel y'i gelwir. Ar hyd eu taith, mae'r gynghrair wedi ymgyrchu'n llwyddiannus dros amddiffyniadau cyfreithiol i ddyfrgwn a moch daear, a dangos pa mor greulon yw hela.
Diolch i holl staff a gwirfoddolwyr y ddwy elusen dros genedlaethau sydd wedi ymrwymo i wella bywydau anifeiliaid ledled y DU.
Diolch.
Thank you.
Nesaf yw'r cynigion i ethol Aelodau i bwyllgorau. Yn unol â Rheolau Sefydlog 12.24 a 12.40, os nad oes unrhyw wrthwynebiad, rwy'n cynnig bod y cynigion i ethol Aelodau yn cael eu grwpio ar gyfer trafod a phleidleisio. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Torri ar draws.]
Next we have motions to elect Members to committees. In accordance with Standing Orders 12.24 and 12.40, unless there are any objections, I propose that the motions to elect Members to committees are grouped for debate and for voting. Does any Member object? [Interruption.]
No, you don't object, do you?
Na, nid ydych chi'n gwrthwynebu, ydych chi?
Gwelaf nad oes unrhyw wrthwynebiad.
I see that there are no objections.
Felly, galwaf ar aelod o'r Pwyllgor Busnes i wneud y cynigion yn ffurfiol—Jane Hutt.
Therefore I call on a member of the Business Committee to move formally the motions—Jane Hutt.
Cynnig NNDM8609 Elin Jones
Cynnig bod y Senedd, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.14, yn ethol Luke Fletcher (Plaid Cymru) yn aelod o’r Pwyllgor Deisebau yn lle Peredur Owen Griffiths (Plaid Cymru).
Motion NNDM8609 Elin Jones
To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 17.14, elects Luke Fletcher (Plaid Cymru) as a member of the Petitions Committee in place of Peredur Owen Griffiths (Plaid Cymru).
Cynnig NNDM8610 Elin Jones
Cynnig bod y Senedd, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.14, yn ethol Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru) yn aelod o’r Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai yn lle Luke Fletcher (Plaid Cymru).
Motion NNDM8610 Elin Jones
To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 17.14, elects Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru) as a member of the Local Government and Housing Committee in place of Luke Fletcher (Plaid Cymru).
Cynnig NNDM8611 Elin Jones
Cynnig bod y Senedd, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.14, yn ethol Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru) yn aelod o’r Pwyllgor Diwylliant, Cyfathrebu, y Gymraeg, Chwaraeon, a Chysylltiadau Rhyngwladol yn lle Llyr Gruffydd (Plaid Cymru).
Motion NNDM8611 Elin Jones
To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 17.14, elects Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru) as a member of the Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee in place of Llyr Gruffydd (Plaid Cymru).
Cynnig NNDM8612 Elin Jones
Cynnig bod y Senedd, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.14, yn ethol Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru) yn aelod o’r Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg yn lle Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru).
Motion NNDM8612 Elin Jones
To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 17.14, elects Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru) as a member of the Children, Young People and Education Committee in place of Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru).
Cynnig NNDM8613 Elin Jones
Cynnig bod y Senedd, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.14, yn ethol Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru) yn lle Adam Price (Plaid Cymru) yn aelod o’r Pwyllgor Diben Arbennig Ymchwiliad COVID-19 Cymru.
Motion NNDM8613 Elin Jones
To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 17.14, elects Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru) in place of Adam Price (Plaid Cymru) as a Member of the Wales COVID-19 Inquiry Special Purpose Committee.
Cynigiwyd y cynigion.
Motions moved.
Formally.
Yn ffurfiol.
Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynigion? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Nac oes. Felly, derbynnir y cynigion yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
The proposal is to agree the motions. Does any Member object? No. The motions are therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Derbyniwyd y cynigion yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Motions agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Eitem 5 heddiw yw'r cynnig o dan Reol Sefydlog 10.5 i benodi cadeirydd bwrdd Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru, a galwaf ar Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor Cyllid i wneud y cynnig—Peredur Owen Griffiths.
Item 5 this afternoon is the motion under Standing Order 10.5 to appoint the chair of the Wales Audit Office board, and I call on the Chair of the Finance Committee to move the motion—Peredur Owen Griffiths.
Cynnig NDM8601 Peredur Owen Griffiths
Cynnig bod y Senedd, yn unol â Pharagraff 5(1) o Atodlen 1 i Ddeddf Archwilio Cyhoeddus (Cymru) 2013, ac o dan Reol Sefydlog 10.5:
Yn penodi Dr Ian Rees yn Gadeirydd Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru o 12 Mehefin 2024 tan 11 Mehefin 2028.
Motion NDM8601 Peredur Owen Griffiths
To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with paragraph 5(1) of Schedule 1 to the Public Audit (Wales) Act 2013, and under Standing Order 10.5:
Appoints Dr Ian Rees as Chair of the Wales Audit Office from 12 June 2024 until 11 June 2028.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. Cynigaf y cynnig hwn heddiw ar ran y Pwyllgor Cyllid, yn gofyn i’r Senedd gytuno i benodi Dr Ian Rees yn gadeirydd ar fwrdd Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru, yn unol â Deddf Archwilio Cyhoeddus (Cymru) 2013.
Mae gan Dr Ian Rees brofiad sylweddol o uwch-arweinyddiaeth yn y sector cyhoeddus, a phrofiad helaeth o weithio ar lefel bwrdd fel uwch-swyddog gweithredol ac anweithredol. Gyda’i bedair blynedd o wasanaeth fel aelod anweithredol o Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru, mae ganddo ddealltwriaeth manwl o’r sefydliad ac mae wedi gweithio’n adeiladol gyda’r bwrdd a’r archwilydd cyffredinol yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw.
Bydd yr Aelodau’n gwybod i’r cadeirydd blaenorol, Dr Kathryn Chamberlain, gael ei phenodi gan y Senedd ym mis Mawrth 2023. Mae manylion ymadawiad Dr Chamberlain i’w cael yn ein hadroddiad. Nid wyf am eu hailadrodd yn y ddadl yma. Er ei bod yn siom i ni fod ei chyfnod ar y bwrdd wedi dod i ben cyn pryd, mae’r pwyllgor yn ddiolchgar i Dr Chamberlain am ei ffordd gadarnhaol ac adeiladol o ymgysylltu â ni ac am gyflawni blaenoriaethau statudol a strategol Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru yn ystod ei chyfnod fel cadeirydd. Ar ran y pwyllgor, hoffwn ddiolch iddi am ei gwasanaeth.
Efallai y bydd yr Aelodau hefyd am nodi bod adroddiad y pwyllgor yn cadarnhau penodiad Richard Thurston a Mike Norman am eu tymor cyntaf fel aelodau anweithredol o’r bwrdd, a phenodiad Dr Ian Rees am ei ail dymor. Rydym yn edrych ymlaen at weithio gyda nhw. Gofynnaf i’r Senedd dderbyn y cynnig. Diolch yn fawr.
Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. I move this motion today on behalf of the Finance Committee, asking the Senedd to agree to appoint Dr Ian Rees as chair of the Wales Audit Office board in accordance with the Public Audit (Wales) Act 2013.
Dr Ian Rees has significant experience of senior leadership in the public sector, along with vast experience of working at board level in a senior executive and non-executive capacity. Having already served four years as a non-executive member at the Wales Audit Office, he has in-depth understanding of the organisation and has worked constructively with both the board and the auditor general during that time.
Members will be aware that the Senedd appointed the previous chair, Dr Kathryn Chamberlain, in March 2023. The details of Dr Chamberlain’s departure is outlined in our report and I do not wish to repeat those during this debate. Although we are disappointed that her tenure on the board has come to an end prematurely, the committee is grateful to Dr Chamberlain for the positive and constructive way she has engaged with us and for delivering the Wales Audit Office’s statutory and strategic priorities during her period as chair. On behalf of the committee, I would like to thank her for her service.
Members may also wish to note that the committee’s report confirms the appointments of both Richard Thurston and Mike Norman for their first terms as non-executive members of the board, and the appointment of Dr Ian Rees for his second term of office. We look forward to working with them all. I ask the Senedd to agree the motion. Thank you very much.
Peredur, nid oes unrhyw siaradwyr arall. Hoffech chi ychwanegu unrhyw beth arall?
Peredur, I have no other speakers. Do you have anything else to add?
Na, dim diolch.
No, thank you.
Na, reit. Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynnig? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Nac oes. Felly, derbynnir y cynnig, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
No, right. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. The motion is therefore agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Eitem 6 heddiw yw dadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb a Chyfiawnder Cymdeithasol, 'Gweithredu, nid geiriau: creu Cymru wrth-hiliol erbyn 2030'. Galwaf ar Gadeirydd y pwyllgor i wneud y cynnig—Jenny Rathbone.
Item 6 today is a debate on the Equality and Social Justice Committee report, 'Actions, not words: towards an anti-racist Wales by 2030'. I call on the committee Chair to move the motion—Jenny Rathbone.
Cynnig NDM8602 Jenny Rathbone
Cynnig bod y Senedd:
Yn nodi adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb a Chyfiawnder Cymdeithasol, 'Gweithredu, nid geiriau: creu Cymru wrth-hiliol erbyn 2030', a osodwyd ddydd Gwener 15 Mawrth 2024.
Motion NDM8602 Jenny Rathbone
To propose that the Senedd:
Notes the Equality and Social Justice Committee report, 'Action, not words: towards an anti-racist Wales by 2030', laid on Friday 15 March 2024.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. The committee kicked off this inquiry just over a year ago, by consulting community champions from across Wales. We met both online and in person, in the Pierhead building, appropriately in the heart of what used to be called Tiger Bay, one of the oldest multicultural communities in the UK and the world. Many stakeholders spoke of consultation fatigue. They didn't want to go on repeating their lived experience, they now wanted to see what was changing and what impact their advice to public bodies was having. They were clear: they wanted our inquiry to focus on action and delivery.
Today virtually every community in Wales is enriched by people from different parts of the world, a fact that we should all celebrate. However, racism is an all-too-familiar part of the day-to-day lived experience of far too many of our citizens. All the evidence we took confirms there is widespread support for the ambitious aim of an anti-racist Wales by 2030. We agree wholeheartedly with the closing sentences of the Welsh Government's guide to the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan':
'Without action nothing changes. Indeed, now we need action, not words.'
This requires the Welsh Government to lead efforts to resist rather than resign us to racial discrimination: a time for action not words—the title of our report. We are anxious this compilation of good intentions will struggle to make meaningful progress unless the complexity of the governance arrangements are simplified and the role of partner organisations are better explained.
So, the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan' rightly touches on all the activities of Government, as racism can impact every aspect of people’s lives. Our report confines itself to three strategic areas—leadership, collaboration and monitoring—and three specific operational challenges, in health, education and criminal justice. It doesn't include other policy areas, like housing; that does not mean that everything is rosy in the garden, and we may wish to come back to those issues at a later stage.
On leadership, the action plan articulates the Welsh Government’s vision for an anti-racist society. Yet too many organisations told us they did not understand how the plan would be implemented, and were unclear about who was responsible for what actions under the plan. ColegauCymru’s Yusuf Ibrahim said
'leaders need to be held...accountable for, "What are they going to do?", "How are they going to measure it?", and, "How will we know that they are successful?"...what are we doing about it if they're not getting it right?'
He said
'it's a privilege to be working in the public sector...it is not a right and it's not an entitlement, and, frankly, if people are not going to lead this well, then I think that we need to look at who's leading it across all sectors.'
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Dechreuodd y pwyllgor yr ymchwiliad hwn ychydig dros flwyddyn yn ôl, drwy ymgynghori â hyrwyddwyr cymunedol o bob rhan o Gymru. Fe wnaethom gyfarfod ar-lein ac wyneb yn wyneb, yn adeilad y Pierhead, yn briodol yng nghanol yr hyn a arferai gael ei alw'n Tiger Bay, un o'r cymunedau amlddiwylliannol hynaf yn y DU a'r byd. Siaradodd llawer o randdeiliaid am syrffed ar ymgyngoriadau. Nid oeddent am barhau i ailadrodd eu profiad bywyd, roeddent eisiau gweld beth oedd yn newid a pha effaith oedd eu cyngor i gyrff cyhoeddus yn ei chael. Roeddent yn glir: roeddent am i'n hymchwiliad ganolbwyntio ar weithredu a chyflawni.
Heddiw mae bron bob cymuned yng Nghymru wedi ei chyfoethogi gan bobl o wahanol rannau o'r byd, ffaith y dylem i gyd ei dathlu. Fodd bynnag, mae hiliaeth yn rhan lawer rhy gyfarwydd o brofiad bywyd o ddydd i ddydd llawer gormod o'n dinasyddion. Mae'r holl dystiolaeth a gymerwyd gennym yn cadarnhau bod cefnogaeth eang i'r nod uchelgeisiol o greu Cymru wrth-hiliol erbyn 2030. Rydym yn cytuno'n llwyr â brawddegau olaf canllawiau Llywodraeth Cymru i'r 'Cynllun Gweithredu Cymru Gwrth-hiliol':
'rydym yn dechrau drwy ymrwymo i gymryd y camau cyntaf. Oni wnawn hynny, ni fydd dim yn newid. Yn wir, mae angen gweithredu, nid geiriau erbyn hyn.'
Mae hyn yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i Lywodraeth Cymru arwain ymdrechion i wrthsefyll yn hytrach nag ildio i wahaniaethu ar sail hil: amser i weithredu nid geiriau—teitl ein hadroddiad. Rydym yn bryderus y bydd y casgliad hwn o fwriadau da yn ei chael hi'n anodd gwneud cynnydd ystyrlon oni bai bod cymhlethdod y trefniadau llywodraethu yn cael eu symleiddio a bod rôl sefydliadau partner yn cael eu hesbonio'n well.
Felly, mae'r 'Cynllun Gweithredu Cymru Gwrth-hiliol' yn cyffwrdd yn briodol ar holl weithgareddau'r Llywodraeth, gan y gall hiliaeth effeithio ar bob agwedd ar fywydau pobl. Mae ein hadroddiad wedi ei gyfyngu i dri maes strategol—arweinyddiaeth, cydweithredu a monitro—a thair her weithredol benodol, ym maes iechyd, addysg a chyfiawnder troseddol. Nid yw'n cynnwys meysydd polisi eraill, fel tai; nid yw hynny'n golygu bod popeth yn iawn o ran hynny, ac efallai y byddwn am ddod yn ôl at y materion hynny yn nes ymlaen.
Ar arweinyddiaeth, mae'r cynllun gweithredu yn cyfleu gweledigaeth Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer cymdeithas wrth-hiliol. Er hynny, dywedodd gormod o sefydliadau wrthym nad oeddent yn deall sut y byddai'r cynllun yn cael ei weithredu, ac nad oeddent yn glir pwy oedd yn gyfrifol am ba gamau o dan y cynllun. Dywedodd Yusuf Ibrahim o ColegauCymru
'mae angen i arweinwyr gael eu dwyn i gyfrif mewn perthynas â "Beth a wnânt?", "Sut y gwnânt ei fesur?", a "Sut y gwyddom eu bod yn llwyddiannus?"...beth a wnawn ni am y peth os nad ydynt yn gwneud pethau'n iawn?'
Dywedodd:
'braint nid hawl yw cael gweithio yn y sector cyhoeddus, ac a dweud y gwir, os nad yw pobl yn mynd i arwain hyn yn dda, rwy'n credu bod angen inni edrych ar bwy sy'n ei arwain ar draws pob sector.'
Recommendations 1 and 2 set out how we would like to see the Welsh Government fine-tune its enhanced leadership role. This includes narrowing and then eliminating its own ethnicity pay gap by 2025-26 and conducting a rapid review of structures to support the plan. In the committee’s view, the structures and governance arrangements set up under the plan are far too complicated and risk being overengineered. Yes, the Welsh Government has sought to clarify this, and we're grateful for that. However, in the evidence we received was the need for clarity about who is responsible for doing what. It remains to be seen whether this message has been understood.
Health and access to language interpretation is a key issue. It remains the case that family members are still being relied upon as translators due to lack of access to interpretation in medical settings. This is completely unacceptable. We heard a very powerful example from Shanti Karupiah, appearing on behalf of the Royal College of General Practitioners, and poor communication through a family member indicates how much this is a breach of a person's human rights. We cannot be expecting a child to be interpreting on intimate female history, which was probably neither clearly communicated by the woman in question in front of her child, nor was it possible for that child to be interpreting it. And it was only her prompt action to examine this person that enabled her to send this woman in the right direction. Now, it really is a breach of a person's human rights not to have that proper interpretation, and despite raising concerns in a previous report, it is clear that insufficient progress has been made.
With modern technologies, it must be possible for the Welsh Government to ensure equitable access to language interpretation for all. The Government's accepted in full recommendation 6, but it's unclear what the timeline is for implementing the HEAR 2 report, and nor does it mention the key people, the key gatekeepers in this, in health, who are the receptionists who book the appointment and should be able to ask somebody whether they wish for an interpreter if they think that is something that the patient might need.
Just going on to monitoring the reporting of racist incidents, it is extraordinary that—. With over half our doctors and nurses being born in another country, it really is unacceptable that racism is far too often manifested in the day-to-day operations of public services. The Royal College of Nursing referred to its 2019 employment survey, where nearly half of Asian respondents, and roughly the same number of black respondents, had experienced bullying from colleagues, in comparison to only 38 per cent of white respondents, which I think is a significant figure. And Race Council Cymru told us that many people from ethnic minority backgrounds don’t have confidence that education settings have effective policies to prevent racist bullying or micro-aggressions, and that these are dealt with effectively when they do occur. Many education institutions in Wales do not have anti-racism policies or escalation mechanisms. So, recommendations 7 and 9 call on the Welsh Government to improve the system for reporting and monitoring of racism and racist incidents in healthcare and education settings. The Welsh Government has accepted in full the one regarding health, but only in part with regard to education.
In healthcare, all racist incidents are reported to Datix Cymru and there is a consistent, pan-Wales approach. For schools and colleges, however, the Welsh Government is committed only to exploring mechanisms needed to produce a consistent reporting format of racist incidents and harassment. If it is possible to have an all-Wales approach to healthcare, then we would like to see the same for schools and colleges in Wales and urge the Welsh Government to implement this, whilst appreciating that school governing bodies are independent operators and are responsible for individual school practices. Nevertheless, we really do feel that there ought to be an all-Wales approach to racism throughout our education system.
I look forward to hearing other people's comments and the Minister's response.
Mae argymhellion 1 a 2 yn nodi sut yr hoffem weld Llywodraeth Cymru yn mireinio ei rôl arweinyddiaeth uwch. Mae hyn yn cynnwys culhau ac yna dileu ei fwlch cyflog ethnigrwydd ei hun erbyn 2025-26 a chynnal adolygiad cyflym o strwythurau i gefnogi'r cynllun. Ym marn y pwyllgor, mae'r strwythurau a'r trefniadau llywodraethu a sefydlwyd o dan y cynllun yn llawer rhy gymhleth ac mewn perygl o gael eu gorgynllunio. Ydy, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ceisio egluro hyn, ac rydym yn ddiolchgar am hynny. Fodd bynnag, yn y dystiolaeth a gawsom roedd angen eglurder ynglŷn â phwy sy'n gyfrifol am wneud beth. Nid ydym yn gwybod eto a yw'r neges hon wedi'i deall.
Mae iechyd a mynediad at gyfieithu yn fater allweddol. Mae'n parhau i fod yn wir fod yna ddibyniaeth ar aelodau teuluol i fod yn gyfieithwyr oherwydd diffyg mynediad at gyfieithu mewn lleoliadau meddygol. Mae hyn yn gwbl annerbyniol. Clywsom enghraifft bwerus iawn gan Shanti Karupiah, yn ymddangos ar ran Coleg Brenhinol yr Ymarferwyr Cyffredinol, ac mae cyfathrebu gwael drwy aelod o'r teulu yn dangos cymaint y mae hyn yn tramgwyddo hawliau dynol unigolyn. Ni allwn ddisgwyl i blentyn gyfieithu hanes iechyd personol benywaidd, na chafodd ei gyfleu'n glir gan y fenyw dan sylw o flaen ei phlentyn yn ôl pob tebyg, ac nad oedd hi'n bosibl i'r plentyn ei gyfieithu. A'i gweithred gyflym hi yn archwilio'r unigolyn dan sylw a'i galluogodd i anfon y fenyw i'r cyfeiriad cywir. Nawr, mae methu darparu cyfieithu priodol yn tramgwyddo hawliau dynol unigolyn, ac er y mynegwyd pryderon mewn adroddiad blaenorol, mae'n amlwg nad oes digon o gynnydd wedi'i wneud.
Gyda thechnolegau modern, rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru sicrhau mynediad teg at gyfieithu i bawb. Mae'r Llywodraeth wedi derbyn argymhelliad 6 yn llawn, ond nid yw'n glir beth yw'r amserlen ar gyfer gweithredu adroddiad HEAR 2, ac nid yw'n sôn ychwaith am y bobl allweddol, y porthorion allweddol yn hyn, ym maes iechyd, sef y derbynyddion sy'n trefnu'r apwyntiad ac y dylent allu gofyn i rywun a ydynt yn dymuno cael cyfieithydd os ydynt yn credu bod hynny'n rhywbeth y gallai fod ei angen ar y claf.
Os caf droi at fonitro adrodd am ddigwyddiadau hiliol, mae'n rhyfeddol—. Gyda dros hanner ein meddygon a'n nyrsys wedi cael eu geni mewn gwlad arall, mae'n annerbyniol fod hiliaeth yn cael ei amlygu'n rhy aml o lawer yng ngweithrediadau gwasanaethau cyhoeddus o ddydd i ddydd. Cyfeiriodd y Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol at ei arolwg cyflogaeth yn 2019, lle roedd bron i hanner yr ymatebwyr Asiaidd, a thua'r un nifer o ymatebwyr du, wedi profi bwlio gan gydweithwyr, o'i gymharu â dim ond 38 y cant o ymatebwyr gwyn, sy'n ffigur arwyddocaol yn fy marn i. A dywedodd Race Council Cymru wrthym fod llawer o bobl o gefndiroedd lleiafrifol ethnig heb hyder fod gan leoliadau addysg bolisïau effeithiol i atal bwlio hiliol neu fân-weithredoedd ymosodol a bod y rhain yn cael eu trin yn effeithiol pan fyddant yn digwydd. Mae llawer o sefydliadau addysg yng Nghymru heb bolisïau gwrth-hiliaeth na mecanweithiau uwchgyfeirio. Felly, mae argymhellion 7 a 9 yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i wella'r system ar gyfer adrodd a monitro hiliaeth a digwyddiadau hiliol mewn lleoliadau gofal iechyd ac addysg. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi derbyn yn llawn yr un ynglŷn ag iechyd, ond yn rhannol yn unig y derbyniwyd yr un ar addysg.
O fewn gofal iechyd, rhoddir gwybod i Datix Cymru am yr holl ddigwyddiadau hiliol a cheir dull cyson o weithredu ar draws Cymru. Ar gyfer ysgolion a cholegau, fodd bynnag, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ymrwymo i archwilio mecanweithiau sydd eu hangen i gynhyrchu fformat adrodd cyson ynghylch digwyddiadau ac aflonyddu hiliol. Os yw'n bosibl cael dull Cymru gyfan o ymdrin â gofal iechyd, hoffem weld yr un peth ar gyfer ysgolion a cholegau yng Nghymru ac annog Llywodraeth Cymru i weithredu hyn, gan ddeall ar yr un pryd fod cyrff llywodraethu ysgolion yn weithredwyr annibynnol ac yn gyfrifol am ymarfer ysgolion unigol. Serch hynny, rydym yn teimlo o ddifrif y dylid cael dull Cymru gyfan o weithredu ar hiliaeth drwy ein system addysg gyfan.
Edrychaf ymlaen at glywed sylwadau pobl eraill ac ymateb y Gweinidog.
I would like to place on record my thanks to the Chair of my former committee, the excellent clerking team and all the witnesses who made this inquiry possible. When the Welsh Government introduced this anti-racist action plan, I made it clear that, while I supported the vision of an anti-racist Wales, the plan was not going to deliver it. It appears that I was not alone in my concerns.
I want to make it clear at the outset that I don’t believe that Wales is a racist nation. We are one of the most tolerant nations on the planet, but racism does, sadly, still exist. It is not the overt kind that is prevalent in our nation; it is the more covert structural racism. I say 'structural racism' because I agree with Reni Eddo-Lodge. She chooses the term 'structural' rather than 'institutional' racism, because she thinks it is built into a space much broader than in our more traditional institutions. Structural racism is impenetrable and goes unnoticed. It is not just about personal prejudice, but collectively affects our bias. It is the kind of racism that has the power to drastically impact people's life chances. We are the most racially tolerant country in the English-speaking world and only slightly behind Sweden and Brazil in terms of tolerance. But when we think that true racism only exists in the hearts of evil people, when we think that racism is about moral values, we ignore the fact that it is really about the survival of the systems of power. The hidden nature of structural racism means it is often difficult to tackle.
The Welsh Government’s anti-racist action plan has made it mandatory to teach black, Asian and minority ethnic histories and experiences as part of Welsh history lessons. Yet only a tiny percentage of teachers are from BAME backgrounds. Last year, only 0.2 per cent of the newly-qualified teachers were black. Just 44 out of the nearly 1,500 newly-qualified teachers had a BAME background. How can we possibly hope to put an end to racism, discrimination and, ultimately, hate crime via education and celebrations of diversity if our teachers are not representative? But it goes deeper than that. Witnesses told the Equality and Social Justice Committee that schools and educators appear oblivious to their obligations to work towards an anti-racist Wales. Just over a quarter of teachers were aware of the work undertaken by Professor Charlotte Williams in this field, and fewer—one in five teachers—were confident they understood how anti-racism will fit into the curriculum. It’s not good enough.
Welsh Government are great at planning, but abysmal at delivering upon those plans. I urge the Welsh Government to accept all the recommendations of this report in full, not just in principle. Without tangible data, targets and deliverables, the anti-racist action plan will do nothing to address structural racism in Wales. Diolch yn fawr.
Hoffwn gofnodi fy niolch i Gadeirydd fy nghyn-bwyllgor, y tîm clercio rhagorol a'r holl dystion a wnaeth yr ymchwiliad hwn yn bosibl. Pan gyflwynodd Llywodraeth Cymru y cynllun gweithredu gwrth-hiliol hwn, er fy mod yn cefnogi'r weledigaeth o Gymru wrth-hiliol, dywedais yn glir nad oedd y cynllun yn mynd i'w gyflawni. Mae'n ymddangos nad fi'n unig oedd yn pryderu felly.
Rwyf am ei gwneud hi'n glir ar y dechrau nad wyf yn credu bod Cymru'n genedl hiliol. Rydym yn un o'r cenhedloedd mwyaf goddefgar ar y blaned, ond yn anffodus mae hiliaeth yn dal i fodoli. Nid y math agored sy'n gyffredin yn ein cenedl, ond hiliaeth strwythurol fwy cudd. Rwy'n dweud 'hiliaeth strwythurol' oherwydd fy mod yn cytuno â Reni Eddo-Lodge. Mae hi'n dewis y term hiliaeth 'strwythurol' yn hytrach na hiliaeth 'sefydliadol', am ei bod hi'n credu ei fod yn bresennol mewn gofod sy'n llawer ehangach na'n sefydliadau mwy traddodiadol. Mae hiliaeth strwythurol yn ddyrys ac nid yw pobl yn sylweddoli ei fod yno. Mae'n ymwneud â mwy na rhagfarn bersonol yn unig, ond gyda'i gilydd mae'n effeithio ar ein tueddfryd. Dyma'r math o hiliaeth sydd â phŵer i effeithio'n sylweddol ar gyfleoedd bywyd pobl. Ni yw'r wlad fwyaf goddefgar o ran hil yn y byd Saesneg ei iaith a dim ond ychydig bach ar ôl Sweden a Brasil o ran goddefgarwch. Ond pan feddyliwn fod gwir hiliaeth ond yn bodoli yng nghalonnau pobl ddrwg yn unig, pan gredwn fod hiliaeth yn ymwneud â gwerthoedd moesol, rydym yn anwybyddu'r ffaith ei fod yn ymwneud â goroesiad systemau pŵer mewn gwirionedd. Mae natur gudd hiliaeth strwythurol yn golygu ei bod yn aml yn anodd mynd i'r afael â hi.
Mae cynllun gweithredu gwrth-hiliol Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ei gwneud yn orfodol i ddysgu hanesion a phrofiadau pobl dduon, Asiaidd a lleiafrifol ethnig yn rhan o wersi hanes Cymru. Er hynny, dim ond canran fechan o athrawon sy'n dod o gefndiroedd BAME. Y llynedd, dim ond 0.2 y cant o athrawon newydd gymhwyso oedd yn ddu. Dim ond 44 o'r bron i 1,500 o athrawon newydd gymhwyso oedd â chefndir BAME. Sut y gallwn ni obeithio rhoi diwedd ar hiliaeth, gwahaniaethu, a throseddau casineb yn y pen draw, drwy addysg a dathlu amrywiaeth os nad yw ein hathrawon yn gynrychioliadol? Ond mae'n mynd yn ddyfnach na hynny. Dywedodd tystion wrth y Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb a Chyfiawnder Cymdeithasol fod ysgolion ac addysgwyr i'w gweld yn anymwybodol o'u rhwymedigaethau i weithio tuag at Gymru wrth-hiliol. Ychydig dros chwarter yr athrawon oedd yn ymwybodol o'r gwaith a wnaed gan yr Athro Charlotte Williams yn y maes hwn, ac roedd llai—un o bob pum athro—yn hyderus eu bod yn deall sut y bydd gwrth-hiliaeth yn mynd i'w le yn y cwricwlwm. Nid yw'n ddigon da.
Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn wych am gynllunio, ond yn wael iawn am gyflawni'r cynlluniau hynny. Rwy'n annog Llywodraeth Cymru i dderbyn holl argymhellion yr adroddiad hwn yn llawn, nid mewn egwyddor yn unig. Heb ddata diriaethol, targedau a phethau i'w cyflawni, ni fydd y cynllun gweithredu gwrth-hiliol yn gwneud dim i fynd i'r afael â hiliaeth strwythurol yng Nghymru. Diolch yn fawr.
Mae pobl ddu, Asiaidd ac o dras ethnig lleiafrifol yng Nghymru yn wynebu heriau ac anfantais difrifol ac annerbyniol. Ac am yn rhy hir, maen nhw wedi bod yn clywed y bydd newid o ran hyn, drwy gynlluniau gweithredu a datganiadau gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Ond fe ddywedon nhw yn glir wrthym ni nad ydyn nhw'n teimlo nac yn gweld bod newid yn digwydd. Roedd hyn yn glir o'r dystiolaeth glywon ni fel pwyllgor. Er yn cytuno gyda dyheadau a nod y cynllun gweithredu gwrth hiliol, roedd yn hollol eglur bod yna fwlch gweithredu, a bod cynnydd yn rhy araf er mwyn sicrhau nad yw pobl yng Nghymru yn profi hiliaeth ac effaith rhagfarn ac anghydraddoldeb ar sail hil yn eu bywydau bob dydd.
Tra bo angen newid ar bob lefel ac ym mhob elfen o gymdeithas i sicrhau hyn, un o brif negeseuon ein hadroddiad oedd bod angen gwell arweiniad a chyllido pwrpasol a gwell gwerthuso o gynnydd gan Lywodraeth Cymru os ŷm ni moyn gweld gwir wahaniaeth. Rwy'n siomedig felly bod y Llywodraeth, er yn derbyn ein hargymhelliad i geisio sicrhau bod ei gweithlu ei hunan, er enghraifft, yn fwy amrywiol, yn dweud bod cyfyngiadau ar y gyllideb sydd ar gael i effeithio ar gyfleoedd i recriwtio. Mae'n rhaid i'r Llywodraeth wneud mwy i ddechrau wrth eu traed eu hunain wrth arwain drwy esiampl.
Mae diffyg cyllid hefyd yn cael ei weld gan sefydliadau sy'n gwbl sylfaenol i sicrhau gweithredu, fel y gymdeithas llywodraeth leol a byrddau iechyd, fel rhwystr, ac mae'n rhwystredig bod y Llywodraeth yn methu â darparu dadansoddiad o'r adnoddau sydd ar gael i gefnogi'r cynllun, yn unol â'n hargymhelliad cyntaf ni.
Dwi'n meddwl ei bod yn werth dyfynnu Ceri Harris, o fwrdd iechyd Betsi Cadwaladr, a dyma ddywedodd hi wrthym ni am yr angen am adnoddau ychwanegol i gefnogi cynllun gweithredu:
Black, Asian and minority ethnic people in Wales face serious and unacceptable challenges and disadvantage. And for too long, they have been hearing that there will be a change in this regard, through action plans and statements from the Welsh Government. But they told us very clearly that they don't feel or see that change is happening. This was clear from the evidence that we heard as a committee. Although we agreed with the aspirations and aims of the anti-racist action plan, it was absolutely clear that there was an action gap, and that progress was too slow to ensure that people in Wales do not experience racism and the impact of race-based prejudice and inequality in their everyday lives.
While change is needed at all levels and in all parts of society to achieve this, one of the main messages of our report was that we need better leadership, dedicated funding and better evaluation of progress by the Welsh Government if we really want to see a difference. I'm therefore disappointed that the Government, although accepting our recommendation to try to ensure that its own workforce is, for example, more diverse, says that restrictions on the available budget are having an impact on opportunities to recruit. The Government must do more to start at its own feet in leading by example.
A lack of funding is also seen by organisations that are absolutely fundamental to ensuring action, such as the local government association and health boards, as a barrier, and it's frustrating that the Government cannot provide an analysis of the resources available to support the plan, in line with our first recommendation.
I think it's worth quoting Ceri Harris from Betsi Cadwaladr health board, and this is what she told us about the need for additional resources to support an action plan:
'We are expecting a lot from people for nothing, and so we need to value that time. If we want to take this seriously, then you do need to put your money where your mouth is on this one. And so if we want to achieve an anti-racist Wales by 2030, then we need to have those resources.... I've been working in equality for 20 years. I literally have to beg, steal and borrow money to do different initiatives. I pay for initiatives out of my own pocket because it's important to me.'
'Rydym yn disgwyl llawer gan bobl am ddim, ac felly mae angen inni werthfawrogi'r amser hwnnw. Os ydym o ddifrif ynglŷn â hyn, mae angen i chi roi eich arian ar eich gair yn hyn o beth. Ac felly os ydym am sicrhau Cymru wrth-hiliol erbyn 2030, mae angen inni gael yr adnoddau hynny... Rwyf wedi bod yn gweithio ym maes cydraddoldeb ers 20 mlynedd. Yn llythrennol, mae'n rhaid imi fegian, dwyn a benthyg arian i wneud gwahanol gynlluniau. Rwy'n talu am gynlluniau o fy mhoced fy hun am ei fod yn bwysig i mi.'
Gwelon ni fel pwyllgor yn arbennig yr angen i ffocysu yn benodol a gyrru newid cadarn ym meysydd addysg, iechyd a chyfiawnder troseddol. Hoffwn ganolbwyntio nawr am weddill yr amser sydd gen i ar yr argymhelliad olaf, sef y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru sefydlu arsyllfa cyfiawnder troseddol i Gymru a cheisio cyfleoedd pellach i gydweithio â’r byd academaidd yng nghyd-destun y cynllun gweithredu.
Y rheswm dros yr argymhelliad hwn yw un o'r arwyddion mwyaf eglur o anghydraddoldeb systemig sy'n seiliedig ar hil a hiliaeth: y ffaith bod pobl o gefndiroedd lleiafrif ethnig yn cael eu gorgynrychioli ar bob lefel o’r system cyfiawnder troseddol yng Nghymru. O'r ffigurau mwyaf diweddar sydd gennym ni, yn 2021, roedd 51 allan o bob 10,000 o bobl ddu Gymreig yn y carchar, o'i gymharu â 14 o bobl gwyn, a mwy o bobl ddu hefyd dan ofal y gwasanaethau prawf. Mae hyd dedfrydau hefyd yn hirach i bobl ddu na diffynyddion gwyn. Yn yr un modd, mae'r data cyfyngedig sydd ar gael yn cadarnhau lefel uchel o anghymesuredd yn y defnydd o stop and search gan luoedd heddlu Cymru.
Diolch i waith ymchwil arloesol a hollbwysig Dr Robert Jones o Ganolfan Llywodraethiant Cymru, mae darlun cliriach o'r anghymesuredd o ran hil yn y system gyfiawnder troseddol wedi ei amlygu ac yn tanlinellu’r angen i Lywodraeth Cymru fynd ar drywydd yr agenda gwrth-hiliaeth yn y maes hwn. Roedd yn rhaid defnyddio ceisiadau rhyddid gwybodaeth i ganfod llawer o'r wybodaeth yma, ac mae'r anawsterau yn deillio o'r ffaith nad yw'r data ar gael. Yn wir, os darllenwch chi gyfrol arbennig The Welsh Criminal Justice System: On the Jagged Edge Dr Robert Jones a'r Athro Richard Wyn Jones, rydych chi'n deall pam. Mae'n ymwneud yn gyfan gwbl â'r ffaith nad yw'r system gyfiawnder troseddol o dan ein rheolaeth.
Mae'n gwbl gywilyddus bod Yvette Cooper heddiw wedi datgan yn glir na fydd yna newid yn hyn o beth o dan Lywodraeth Lafur yn San Steffan, yn groes i gyfres hir o adroddiadau arbenigol, barn ddatganiedig y Llywodraeth a thystiolaeth a glywon ni fel pwyllgor am yr anghyfiawnder a'r niwed mae hyn yn achosi i, er enghraifft, bobl ddu, Asiaidd ac o dras ethnig lleiafrifol. Hoffwn wybod os yw'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet yn condemnio'r sylwadau yna.
Mae'n rhaid derbyn mewn egwyddor yr angen am gefnogi a datblygu gwaith yn y maes hwn o ran casglu data, ac mae'r Llywodraeth yn derbyn hyn mewn egwyddor. Ond hoffwn ofyn, i orffen, am ddiweddariad penodol ar yr hyn mae'r Llywodraeth yn ei wneud i ddatblygu a chefnogi'r ymchwil hanfodol yma, a gofyn am ymrwymiad gan yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet newydd, gyda newid yn y Llywodraeth yn fwy na thebygol erbyn Gorffennaf, beth fydd yr achos y bydd hi'n ei wneud i Keir Starmer ynglŷn â sicrhau y caiff pwerau plismona a chyfiawnder eu datganoli. Ydych chi'n cytuno bod y sefyllfa bresennol yn anghynaliadwy—
As a committee, we saw in particular the need to focus firmly on and drive robust change in the areas of education, health and criminal justice. I would now like to focus for the rest of my time on the final recommendation, which is that the Welsh Government should establish a criminal justice observatory for Wales and seek further opportunities to collaborate with the academic world in the context of the action plan.
The reason behind this recommendation is one of the clearest signs of systemic inequality based on race and racism, namely the fact that people from ethnic minority backgrounds are over-represented at all levels of the criminal justice system in Wales. Based on the most recent statistics that we have, in 2021, 51 out of every 10,000 black people in Wales were in prison, compared to 14 white people, and more black people were also under the care of the probation services. The length of sentences is also longer for black people than white defendants. In the same way, the limited data available confirm high levels of disproportionality in the use of stop and search by Welsh police forces.
Thanks to the innovative and vital research of Dr Robert Jones from the Wales Governance Centre, a clearer picture of the disproportionality in terms of race in the criminal justice system has been highlighted, and this emphasises the need for the Welsh Government to pursue an anti-racism agenda in this area. Freedom of information requests had to be used to obtain much of this information, and there are difficulties that arise from the fact that the data are not available. Indeed, if you read the special publication The Welsh Criminal Justice System: On the Jagged Edge by Dr Robert Jones and Professor Richard Wyn Jones, you will understand why. It is entirely related to the fact that the criminal justice system is not under our control.
It's a disgrace that Yvette Cooper has today stated clearly that there won't be a change in that regard under a Labour Government in Westminster, running counter to a long list of reports, the stated opinion of the Government and the evidence that we heard as a committee about the injustice and harm that this causes to, for example, black, Asian and minority ethnic groups. I'd like to know whether the Cabinet Secretary condemns those comments.
We have to accept in principle the need to support and develop work in this area in terms of data gathering, and the Government accepts that in principle. But I'd like to ask, to finish, for a specific update on what the Government is doing to promote and support this essential research, and ask for a commitment from the new Cabinet Secretary, with a change in Government more than likely by July, as to the case that she will be making to Keir Starmer on ensuring that policing and justice powers are devolved. Do you agree that the current situation is unsustainable—
Sioned, rhaid i ti orffen nawr, os gwelwch yn dda.
Sioned, you need to conclude now, please.
—ie, brawddeg olaf—ac yn anghyson at greu Cymru wrth-hiliol?
—yes, this is my final sentence—unjust and inconsistent in terms of the creation of an anti-racist Wales?
Jane Dodds. No, Jane, you’re still muted at the moment. Now you can go.
Jane Dodds. Na, Jane, rydych chi'n dal i fod wedi eich tawelu ar hyn o bryd. Gallwch ddechrau nawr.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Thank you so much. I’d like to start by expressing my gratitude to members of the committee and also to those individuals and organisations who took part and gave such valuable evidence to me and to us as a committee. I’d like to also acknowledge the harsh reality that racial inequality persists here in Wales. Despite pockets of progress, people from ethnic minority backgrounds continue to face disparities in housing, education, employment, healthcare and, as we’ve heard, in the criminal justice system. The Equality and Human Rights Commission has noted areas of positive change, but we cannot rest on our laurels. The Welsh Government’s anti-racist action plan sets forth an ambitious yet necessary vision of achieving an anti-racist Wales by 2030, one that we all welcome, because it needs to be about dismantling the racist framework that Wales has currently.
Complacency remains the enemy of progress and the committee’s report highlights the formidable challenges that the Welsh Government needs to surmount when it comes to decisive leadership, active collaboration and detailed monitoring. It is therefore disheartening to read the Welsh Government’s response to the committee’s recommendations, which seemingly seeks to downplay its leadership responsibilities in its willingness to accept our recommendations either in part or principle without following through on key actions. For example, the outright rejection of recommendation 3 is a missed opportunity. By stating that the responsibility lies solely with EHRC as the regulator to improve strategic equality plans, the Welsh Government appears to be abdicating its role in proactively driving progress on this front.
Furthermore, regarding recommendation 4, the decision by the Welsh Government to rely solely on the resource collection on gov.wales rather than a dedicated stand-alone microsite will limit the accessibility and visibility of these crucial resources and hinder transparency.
I would like to just focus my brief contribution upon the education sector, which we all heard remains a critical battleground in the fight against racial inequality. As the children’s commissioner highlighted in their report last November, there is an urgent need for clarity on how schools should handle racist incidents, and a concerning lack of consistency across local authorities in logging and reporting incidents. The report further paints a picture of schools as hostile environments where bullying is rife, with many ethnic minorities lacking confidence in the effectiveness of policies to prevent racist bullying and micro-aggressions. This reality is totally unacceptable and it undermines the very principles of an inclusive and equitable education system. It is therefore troubling that the Welsh Government’s response to recommendation 9, which calls for a consistent national system for reporting incidents, lacks the urgency and conviction that this crisis demands.
By rejecting the need for concrete timelines and binding commitments, the Government further undermines confidence and risks allowing this blight to fester. I therefore urge the Cabinet Secretary to provide reassurances that the Welsh Government is serious about tackling this issue and work with the Cabinet Secretary for Education. We need also to look at data, and, as you’ve heard from my former colleague Altaf Hussain from the committee, and from Sioned Williams, I’d like to hear more from the Cabinet Secretary about what consideration the Welsh Government makes towards the creation of comprehensive systems to collect data, particularly around school exclusions, tracking ethnicity to identify patterns of discrimination, and review schools with high exclusion rates.
I would like to finish by quoting the late Nelson Mandela, which I believe has a particular resonance when it comes to the role education plays in anti-racism: no-one is born hating another person because of the colour of his or her skin, or his or her background, or his or her religion. People learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes naturally to the human heart rather than its opposite.
I hope that the Welsh Government will demonstrate the leadership that we need to take action to root out this hate. Thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Hoffwn ddechrau drwy fynegi fy niolch i aelodau'r pwyllgor a hefyd i'r unigolion a'r sefydliadau a gymerodd ran ac a roddodd dystiolaeth mor werthfawr i mi ac i ni fel pwyllgor. Hoffwn innau hefyd gydnabod y realiti llwm fod anghydraddoldeb hiliol yn parhau yma yng Nghymru. Er gwaethaf pocedi o gynnydd, mae pobl o gefndiroedd lleiafrifol ethnig yn parhau i wynebu gwahaniaethau ym maes tai, addysg, cyflogaeth, gofal iechyd ac fel y clywsom, yn y system cyfiawnder troseddol. Mae'r Comisiwn Cydraddoldeb a Hawliau Dynol wedi nodi meysydd lle ceir newid cadarnhaol, ond ni allwn orffwys ar ein rhwyfau. Mae cynllun gweithredu gwrth-hiliol Llywodraeth Cymru yn nodi gweledigaeth uchelgeisiol ond angenrheidiol i gyflawni Cymru wrth-hiliol erbyn 2030, gweledigaeth yr ydym i gyd yn ei chroesawu, oherwydd mae angen iddo ymwneud â datgymalu'r fframwaith hiliol sydd gan Gymru ar hyn o bryd.
Mae hunanfodlonrwydd yn parhau i fod yn elyn i gynnydd ac mae adroddiad y pwyllgor yn tynnu sylw at yr heriau aruthrol y mae angen i Lywodraeth Cymru eu goresgyn o ran arweinyddiaeth bendant, cydweithio gweithredol a monitro manwl. Felly mae'n ddigalon darllen ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru i argymhellion y pwyllgor, sy'n ymddangos fel pe bai'n ceisio bychanu ei chyfrifoldebau arwain yn ei pharodrwydd i dderbyn ein hargymhellion naill ai'n rhannol neu mewn egwyddor heb fwrw ymlaen â chamau gweithredu allweddol. Er enghraifft, mae gwrthod argymhelliad 3 yn llwyr yn gyfle a gollwyd. Drwy nodi mai'r Comisiwn Cydraddoldeb a Hawliau Dynol yn unig sy'n gyfrifol fel y rheoleiddiwr am wella cynlluniau cydraddoldeb strategol, ymddengys bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn ymwrthod â'i rôl i sbarduno cynnydd yn rhagweithiol yn hyn o beth.
Ar ben hynny, o ran argymhelliad 4, bydd penderfyniad Llywodraeth Cymru i ddibynnu'n unig ar y casgliad o adnoddau ar llyw.cymru yn hytrach na microwefan annibynnol benodol yn cyfyngu ar hygyrchedd a gwelededd yr adnoddau hanfodol hyn ac yn rhwystro tryloywder.
Hoffwn ganolbwyntio ar y sector addysg yn fy nghyfraniad byr, ac mae'r hyn a glywsom yn parhau i fod yn dyngedfennol yn y frwydr yn erbyn anghydraddoldeb hiliol. Fel yr amlygodd y comisiynydd plant yn eu hadroddiad fis Tachwedd diwethaf, mae angen eglurder ar frys ynglŷn â'r modd y dylai ysgolion drin digwyddiadau hiliol, a diffyg cysondeb pryderus ar draws awdurdodau lleol mewn perthynas â chofnodi ac adrodd am ddigwyddiadau. Mae'r adroddiad yn paentio darlun pellach o ysgolion fel amgylcheddau gelyniaethus lle mae bwlio'n rhemp, gyda llawer o leiafrifoedd ethnig heb hyder yn effeithiolrwydd polisïau i atal bwlio hiliol a mân-weithredoedd ymosodol. Mae'r realiti hwn yn gwbl annerbyniol ac mae'n tanseilio union egwyddorion system addysg gynhwysol a theg. Mae'n peri gofid felly nad yw ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru i argymhelliad 9, sy'n galw am system genedlaethol gyson ar gyfer adrodd am ddigwyddiadau, yn dangos y brys a'r argyhoeddiad sydd ei angen i fynd i'r afael ynglŷn â'r argyfwng hwn.
Drwy wrthod yr angen am amserlenni pendant ac ymrwymiadau rhwymol, mae'r Llywodraeth yn tanseilio hyder ymhellach ac yn creu perygl o ganiatáu i'r sefyllfa hon waethygu. Felly, rwy'n annog Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet i roi sicrwydd bod Llywodraeth Cymru o ddifrif ynglŷn â mynd i'r afael â'r mater a gweithio gydag Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Addysg. Mae angen inni edrych ar ddata hefyd, ac fel y clywsoch gan fy nghyn gyd-aelod o'r pwyllgor, Altaf Hussain, a chan Sioned Williams, hoffwn glywed mwy gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ynglŷn â pha ystyriaeth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei rhoi i greu systemau cynhwysfawr i gasglu data, yn enwedig ynghylch gwaharddiadau ysgol, gan olrhain ethnigrwydd i nodi patrymau gwahaniaethu, ac adolygu ysgolion sydd â chyfraddau gwahardd uchel.
Hoffwn orffen drwy ddyfynnu'r diweddar Nelson Mandela, sydd, yn fy marn i, yn berthnasol iawn o ran y rôl y mae addysg yn ei chwarae mewn gwrth-hiliaeth: ni chaiff neb ei eni'n casáu person arall oherwydd lliw eu croen, neu eu cefndir, neu eu crefydd. Mae pobl yn dysgu casáu, ac os gallant ddysgu casáu, gellir eu dysgu i garu, gan mai cariad, yn hytrach na'i wrthwyneb, sy'n dod yn naturiol i'r galon ddynol.
Rwy'n gobeithio y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn dangos yr arweinyddiaeth sydd ei hangen arnom i roi camau a waith i gael gwared ar y casineb hwn. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
I would like to begin by congratulating the Equality and Social Justice Committee on its report and those who engaged with the committee in this work, and, obviously, those who gave evidence. I would like to highlight the Gypsy, Traveller, Roma community, Dirprwy Lywydd, because I think their voices are often unheard when we discuss prejudice and discrimination. If we are to move forward to an anti-racist Wales, we need to combat discrimination against all sections of our society here in Wales, very much including the Gypsy, Traveller and Roma community. It still seems to be the case, unfortunately, that some people feel able to discriminate against those communities, whereas they wouldn't do so with regard to other minorities. We need to tackle the underlying issues that make that reality possible.
Education, as ever, I think is absolutely clear, and the Children's Commissioner for Wales has found that there's an unacceptable level of bullying with regard to Gypsy and Traveller children, and the level of exclusions is way beyond what we see for the rest of the population. That community is not represented amongst teaching staff, or, indeed, resources, largely, that are used in school. There's a real job to be done to educate children generally in our schools, so that they are not prey to these attitudes and this discrimination. So, there is much to be done in the field of education if we are to tackle the cultural situation that faces our Gypsy, Traveller and Roma communities.
I very much welcome the fact that I know Welsh Government did provide extra funding recently to local authorities to combat some of these issues, but, clearly, an awful lot more remains to be done. Another aspect of the problems faced is around housing. The Housing (Wales) Act 2014 provides a legal duty on local authorities to assess the accommodation needs of the Gypsy, Traveller communities, but, recently, the Public Services Ombudsman for Wales found very worrying failures in Welsh Government to properly discharge its own duties and to ensure that local authorities are discharging theirs. In the last financial year, we saw nil expenditure from the Welsh Government pot of money that is there for local authorities to provide sites for the Gypsy, Traveller community. It's another clear example, I think, of how we are letting down these people—
Hoffwn ddechrau drwy longyfarch y Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb a Chyfiawnder Cymdeithasol ar ei adroddiad a'r rhai a fu'n ymwneud â'r pwyllgor yn y gwaith hwn, ac yn amlwg, y rhai a roddodd dystiolaeth. Hoffwn dynnu sylw at y gymuned Sipsiwn, Roma a Theithwyr, Ddirprwy Lywydd, oherwydd credaf fod eu lleisiau'n cael eu colli'n aml pan fyddwn yn trafod rhagfarn a gwahaniaethu. Os ydym am symud ymlaen i fod yn Gymru wrth-hiliol, mae angen inni fynd i'r afael â gwahaniaethu yn erbyn pob rhan o'n cymdeithas yma yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys cymunedau Sipsiwn, Roma a Theithwyr. Ymddengys ei bod yn dal i fod yn wir, yn anffodus, fod rhai pobl yn teimlo y gallant wahaniaethu yn erbyn y cymunedau hynny, er na fyddent yn gwahaniaethu yn erbyn lleiafrifoedd eraill. Mae angen inni fynd i'r afael â'r materion sylfaenol sy'n gwneud y realiti hwnnw'n bosibl.
Credaf ei bod yn gwbl glir fod addysg, fel erioed, yn bwysig, ac mae Comisiynydd Plant Cymru wedi canfod bod lefel annerbyniol o fwlio yn erbyn plant o deuluoedd sy'n Sipsiwn neu'n Deithwyr, ac mae lefel y gwaharddiadau ymhell y tu hwnt i'r hyn a welwn ar gyfer gweddill y boblogaeth. Nid yw'r gymuned honno'n cael ei chynrychioli ymhlith staff addysgu, ac yn wir, nid ydynt yn cael eu cynrychioli yn y rhan fwyaf o'r adnoddau sy'n cael eu defnyddio yn yr ysgol. Mae gwaith gwirioneddol i'w wneud i addysgu plant yn gyffredinol yn ein hysgolion, fel nad yw'r plant hyn yn wynebu agweddau a gwahaniaethu o'r fath. Felly, mae llawer i'w wneud ym maes addysg os ydym am fynd i'r afael â'r sefyllfa ddiwylliannol sy'n wynebu ein cymunedau Sipsiwn, Roma a Theithwyr.
Rwy'n croesawu'r ffaith bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi darparu cyllid ychwanegol i awdurdodau lleol yn ddiweddar i fynd i'r afael â rhai o'r materion hyn, ond yn amlwg, mae llawer iawn mwy i'w wneud o hyd. Agwedd arall ar y problemau a wynebir yw tai. Mae Deddf Tai (Cymru) 2014 yn darparu dyletswydd gyfreithiol ar awdurdodau lleol i asesu anghenion llety cymunedau Sipsiwn, Roma a Theithwyr, ond yn ddiweddar, canfu Ombwdsmon Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus Cymru fethiannau pryderus iawn yn Llywodraeth Cymru i gyflawni ei dyletswyddau ei hun yn briodol ac i sicrhau bod awdurdodau lleol yn cyflawni eu dyletswyddau nhw. Yn y flwyddyn ariannol ddiwethaf, ni wariwyd unrhyw arian o'r gronfa arian sydd gan Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau bod awdurdodau lleol yn darparu safleoedd ar gyfer cymunedau Sipsiwn, Roma a Theithwyr. Mae'n enghraifft arall glir, rwy'n credu, o sut rydym ni'n gwneud cam â'r bobl hyn—
Will you take an intervention?
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?
Yes, indeed, Gareth.
Gwnaf, yn sicr, Gareth.
Obviously, in north Wales, and I've raised it particularly in the past, in Denbighshire, for example, the Welsh Government rules stipulate that it's got to be within a certain radius of major road routes, so, in Denbighshire, the issue has been because Denbighshire is the only local authority in north Wales that doesn't have a Gypsy and Traveller site within the county, because in Denbighshire you've got a 6 mile belt to choose from, which, actually, in geographical terms, doesn't encapsulate the whole county. So, because the A55 basically runs through the middle of the county, or more in the north of the county, it doesn't bring that level of fairness that would have been maybe the case in other counties, because the A55 only runs through a very small part of that county. So, in those terms, would you accept that, sometimes, maybe a more regional approach could be adopted to encapsulate some of those geographical realities around that, on a sort of logistical level?
Yn amlwg, yng ngogledd Cymru, ac rwyf wedi rhoi sylw penodol i hyn yn y gorffennol, yn sir Ddinbych, er enghraifft, mae rheolau Llywodraeth Cymru yn nodi bod yn rhaid iddo fod o fewn radiws penodol i lwybrau ffyrdd mawr, felly, yn sir Ddinbych, roedd y broblem yn ymwneud â'r ffaith mai sir Ddinbych yw'r unig awdurdod lleol yng ngogledd Cymru lle nad oes safle Sipsiwn a Theithwyr o fewn ffiniau'r sir, oherwydd yn sir Ddinbych mae gennych ardal 6 milltir i ddewis ohoni, ac nid yw hynny, mewn termau daearyddol, yn crynhoi'r sir gyfan. Felly, gan fod yr A55 yn mynd drwy ganol y sir yn y bôn, neu fwy yng ngogledd y sir, nid yw'n cynnig yr un lefel o degwch ag a fyddai wedi bod yn wir mewn siroedd eraill efallai, am mai dim ond rhan fach iawn o'r sir honno y mae'r A55 yn mynd drwyddi. Felly, yn y termau hynny, a fyddech chi'n derbyn efallai y gellid mabwysiadu dull mwy rhanbarthol weithiau i gydnabod rhai o'r gwirioneddau daearyddol yn hynny o beth, ar ryw fath o lefel logistaidd?
No, I do not think I would, actually, Gareth, because it's a responsibility and, indeed, as I say, a legal duty on all local authorities in Wales—all local authorities—not on a regional basis, but all individual local authorities to properly assess the accommodation needs of Gypsies and Travellers and to provide for them. What we see all too often, I'm afraid, is stigma, discrimination and prejudice coming into play and, obviously, we do not want to see that in any part of Wales.
Dirprwy Lywydd, I hope you'll give me—
Na, nid wyf yn credu y byddwn, Gareth, oherwydd mae'n gyfrifoldeb, ac yn wir, fel y dywedais, mae'n ddyletswydd gyfreithiol ar bob awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru—pob awdurdod lleol—nid ar sail ranbarthol, ond pob awdurdod lleol unigol i asesu anghenion llety Sipsiwn a Theithwyr yn briodol ac i ddarparu ar eu cyfer. Rwy'n ofni mai'r hyn a welwn yn rhy aml yw stigma, gwahaniaethu a rhagfarn yn ymddangos, ac yn amlwg, nid ydym eisiau gweld hynny mewn unrhyw ran o Gymru.
Ddirprwy Lywydd, gobeithio y byddwch chi'n rhoi—
I'm going to give you an extra two minutes, because it took two minutes.
Rwyf am roi dau funud ychwanegol i chi, oherwydd fe gymerodd ddau funud.
Thank you very much. A further example, I think—and again, it's allied to housing—is the way that the planning system operates. There is real prejudice, again, and discrimination, unfortunately, in the way our planning system works. And that's the case with regard to larger sites and the responsibilities of local authorities, but also smaller sites. And many members of the Gypsy, Traveller community own land, which they would like to develop for their own housing needs, and they're small sites. Very often, they do pose fewer challenges than the larger sites, which are often not ideal for the Gypsy, Traveller community, nor indeed for the local authority and neighbours, because of the nature of the sites. And very often, I must say, those sites—and there's an example here in Cardiff, isn't there, on Rover Way—are sited in the most inappropriate places, where I don't think any of us would like to live, but nonetheless, the Gypsy, Traveller communities are expected to reside there.
So, with regard to the planning system and those smaller sites, I think one very important way forward would be to look at how the planning system works, to make sure that there's no prejudice, no discrimination, no stigma at all involved in the operation of that planning system, and to look at these smaller sites particularly, because I know from my own engagement with the Gypsy, Traveller community, through the cross-party group on race equality, which I chair, and also from chairing committees here in the Senedd, very often it's those smaller sites that the community would really like to see being developed and being allowed right across Wales. Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd.
Diolch yn fawr. Enghraifft arall, rwy'n credu—ac unwaith eto, mae'n gysylltiedig â thai—yw'r ffordd y mae'r system gynllunio'n gweithredu. Mae rhagfarn go iawn, unwaith eto, a gwahaniaethu, yn anffodus, yn y ffordd y mae ein system gynllunio yn gweithio. Ac mae hynny'n wir mewn perthynas â safleoedd mwy o faint a chyfrifoldebau awdurdodau lleol, ond hefyd safleoedd llai. Ac mae llawer o aelodau o'r gymuned Sipsiwn a Theithwyr yn berchen ar dir eu hunain, yr hoffent ei ddatblygu ar gyfer eu hanghenion tai eu hunain, a safleoedd bach ydynt. Yn aml iawn, maent yn creu llai o heriau na'r safleoedd mwy o faint, sy'n aml heb fod yn ddelfrydol ar gyfer y gymuned Sipsiwn a Theithwyr, nac yn wir i'r awdurdod lleol a chymdogion, oherwydd natur y safleoedd. Ac yn aml iawn, mae'n rhaid imi ddweud, mae'r safleoedd hynny—ac mae enghraifft yma yng Nghaerdydd, onid oes, ar Rover Way—wedi cael eu lleoli yn y llefydd mwyaf amhriodol, llefydd nad wyf yn credu yr hoffai unrhyw un ohonom fyw ynddynt, ond er hynny, mae disgwyl i gymunedau Sipsiwn a Theithwyr breswylio yno.
Felly, o ran y system gynllunio a'r safleoedd llai hynny, credaf mai un ffordd bwysig iawn ymlaen fyddai edrych ar sut mae'r system gynllunio'n gweithio, i sicrhau nad oes unrhyw ragfarn, gwahaniaethu na stigma o gwbl ynghlwm wrth weithredu'r system gynllunio honno, ac edrych ar y safleoedd llai hyn yn arbennig, oherwydd rwy'n gwybod o fy ymgysylltiad fy hun â'r gymuned Sipsiwn a Theithwyr, drwy'r grŵp trawsbleidiol ar gydraddoldeb hil a gadeirir gennyf, a hefyd o gadeirio pwyllgorau yma yn y Senedd, yn aml iawn y safleoedd llai hynny yr hoffai'r gymuned eu gweld yn cael eu datblygu a'u caniatáu ledled Cymru. Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd.
Galwaf ar Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Ddiwylliant a Chyfiawnder Cymdeithasol, Lesley Griffiths.
I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Culture and Social Justice, Lesley Griffiths.
Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'm very pleased to have the opportunity to respond on behalf of the Welsh Government regarding the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan' inquiry, and I very much welcome the Equality and Social Justice Committee's report, 'Action, not words: towards an anti-racist Wales by 2030', and I very carefully have considered the recommendations. I really want to thank my predecessor, Jane Hutt, who's in the Siambr listening to this debate, for her unwavering commitment to the action plan and I look forward to continuing her work with equal passion to ensure a truly anti-racist Wales.
Our 2022-23 action plan annual report shows that, whilst the impact of the plan may not yet be as apparent in the lived experiences of black, Asian and minority ethnic people as we would want, significant structural foundations have been laid for long-term change, and tangible progress has been achieved. The action plan is significantly different from previous ones, both in its development and its implementation. It was co-produced with black, Asian and minority ethnic people and right at the heart of it is the governance structure that is going to be the external accountability group. That's co-chaired by the Permanent Secretary and by Professor Emmanuel Ogbonna, and comprises 11 black and minority ethnic diversity representatives and eight race experts. This focus on lived experience makes the plan stronger, I think, than any previous plans to tackle racial inequality.
The group holds Welsh Government directly to account through external accountability group meetings and active roles in policy sub-groups. Our regional forums will add a further layer of monitoring and accountability, as they will directly link Welsh Government to grass-roots ethnic minority communities and individuals impacted by policy changes.
A refreshed reiteration of the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan' is under way, covering 2024-26. It will refine existing goals and actions to strengthen implementation and measure impact, and it signals the bold vision of achieving an anti-racist Wales by 2030, with goals and actions spanning the whole of Government. The race disparity evidence unit was established in January 2022. It's developing a framework to measure and evaluate the impact of the action plan across the Welsh Government and the wider public sector meaningfully, and I think the point that Jane Dodds made around—it really does need to be a collective endeavour, and I don't think that that just means across Government; absolutely, it is with every Minister and Cabinet Secretary in the Welsh Government, but also in collaboration with our public bodies.
The unit I've just referred to does represent the Welsh Government on the criminal justice in Wales anti-racism plan's data collection and performance work stream. Promoting access to disaggregated justice data does remain a priority for the Welsh Government, and that work complements and builds on the work that Sioned Williams referred to, delivered by Richard Wyn Jones and Rob Jones, who've highlighted the value of transparent and accessible data on the justice system in Wales. Moreover, the Welsh Government has developed interactive data dashboards to compile and disseminate Welsh justice data, and a youth justice dashboard has been published with more to follow. These dashboards present publicly available data from the Ministry of Justice in a very accessible and impactful way.
In health and social care, the establishment of an implementation and challenge board, chaired by Judith Paget, the chief executive of NHS Wales and director general of the health and social services group here in Welsh Government, has provided strong and robust governance and accountability to accelerate the action plan's implementation. I think what this demonstration of leadership at the highest level has ensured is that anti-racist actions retain a very high profile. The board has invited external partners and stakeholders to present the barriers and challenges that they face with the action plan's implementation, and to act as a critical friend. The Welsh Government is also working closely with Social Care Wales to ensure diversity in their public appointments through their current board recruitment exercise, and the Welsh Government's social services directorate is reviewing the membership of all stakeholder groups to set high expectations of representation from ethnic minority communities.
Wales is the first country in the UK to make the teaching of black, Asian and minority ethnic histories mandatory in the Curriculum for Wales. It's important for our educational practitioners and young people to understand that these histories belong to us all. The Welsh Government is also fully considering the Children's Commissioner for Wales's recommendations in her spotlight report on children's experiences of racism in secondary schools. For example, we are strengthening our existing 'Rights, respect, equality' statutory anti-bullying guidance for schools, and this will be done by updating the current guidance to advise education settings on effectively addressing prejudice-related bullying and harassment, and that includes racist incidents. Schools and educational settings have a vital role in actively creating anti-racist conditions to ensure that the experiences and opportunities of today are not marred by the inequalities and racism of the past.
I have already responded to the committee's recommendations, and I want to emphasise our ongoing work to refresh the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan'. We are fully committed to enhancing future iterations and addressing the gaps that Sioned Williams referred to, and that have been identified by the committee. My immediate focus is on publishing the refreshed plan this year. Our next annual report will look at the impact made across various policy areas within the Welsh Government. Strengthening collaboration with partners across the wider public and third sectors in Wales is also a key priority.
Our purpose is clear: to make meaningful and measurable changes to the lives of black, Asian and minority ethnic people by tackling racism; in fact, to all communities that experience racism and prejudice, and John Griffiths very eloquently identified Gypsy, Traveller—
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n falch iawn o gael y cyfle i ymateb ar ran Llywodraeth Cymru mewn perthynas ag ymchwiliad 'Cynllun Gweithredu Cymru Wrth-hiliol', ac rwy'n croesawu adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb a Chyfiawnder Cymdeithasol, 'Gweithredu, nid geiriau: creu Cymru wrth-hiliol erbyn 2030', ac rwyf wedi ystyried yr argymhellion yn ofalus iawn. Hoffwn ddiolch yn fawr iawn i fy rhagflaenydd, Jane Hutt, sydd yn y Siambr yn gwrando ar y ddadl hon, am ei hymrwymiad diwyro i'r cynllun gweithredu ac edrychaf ymlaen at barhau â'i gwaith gyda'r un angerdd i sicrhau Cymru wirioneddol wrth-hiliol.
Mae adroddiad blynyddol 2022-23 ar y cynllun gweithredu yn dangos, er efallai nad yw effaith y cynllun mor amlwg eto ym mhrofiadau bywyd pobl dduon, Asiaidd a lleiafrifol ethnig ag y byddem yn ei ddymuno, gosodwyd sylfeini strwythurol sylweddol ar gyfer newid hirdymor, a chyflawnwyd cynnydd diriaethol. Mae'r cynllun gweithredu yn sylweddol wahanol i'r rhai blaenorol, yn ei ddatblygiad a'i weithrediad. Cafodd ei gydgynhyrchu gyda phobl dduon, Asiaidd a lleiafrifol ethnig ac mae gennym strwythur llywodraethu yn ganolog iddo a fydd yn grŵp atebolrwydd allanol. Caiff hwnnw ei gadeirio ar y cyd gan yr Ysgrifennydd Parhaol a'r Athro Emmanuel Ogbonna, ac mae'n cynnwys 11 cynrychiolydd du a lleiafrifol ethnig ac wyth arbenigwr ar hil. Mae'r ffocws hwn ar brofiad bywyd yn gwneud y cynllun yn gryfach, rwy'n credu, nag unrhyw gynlluniau blaenorol i fynd i'r afael ag anghydraddoldeb hil.
Mae'r grŵp yn dwyn Llywodraeth Cymru i gyfrif yn uniongyrchol drwy gyfarfodydd y grŵp atebolrwydd allanol a rolau gweithredol mewn is-grwpiau polisi. Bydd ein fforymau rhanbarthol yn ychwanegu haen bellach o fonitro ac atebolrwydd, gan y byddant yn cysylltu Llywodraeth Cymru yn uniongyrchol ag unigolion a chymunedau lleiafrifoedd ethnig ar lawr gwlad y mae newidiadau polisi yn effeithio arnynt.
Mae ail fersiwn newydd o adroddiad 'Cynllun Gweithredu Cymru Wrth-hiliol' ar y gweill, ar gyfer 2024-26. Bydd yn mireinio nodau a chamau gweithredu presennol i gryfhau ei weithrediad a mesur effaith, ac mae'n arwydd o'r weledigaeth feiddgar o sicrhau Cymru wrth-hiliol erbyn 2030, gyda nodau a chamau gweithredu sy'n rhychwantu'r Llywodraeth gyfan. Sefydlwyd yr uned tystiolaeth gwahaniaethau ar sail hil ym mis Ionawr 2022. Mae'n datblygu fframwaith i fesur a gwerthuso effaith y cynllun gweithredu ar draws Llywodraeth Cymru a'r sector cyhoeddus ehangach mewn ffordd ystyrlon, ac rwy'n credu bod y pwynt a wnaeth Jane Dodds ynghylch—mae gwir angen iddi fod yn ymdrech ar y cyd, ac nid wyf yn credu bod hynny'n golygu ar draws y Llywodraeth yn unig; yn sicr, mae'n ymdrech ar y cyd gyda phob Gweinidog ac Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn Llywodraeth Cymru, ond hefyd mewn cydweithrediad â'n cyrff cyhoeddus.
Mae'r uned rwyf newydd gyfeirio ati yn cynrychioli Llywodraeth Cymru ar ffrwd waith casglu data a pherfformiad cynllun gwrth-hiliol y system cyfiawnder troseddol yng Nghymru. Mae hyrwyddo mynediad at ddata cyfiawnder wedi'i ddadgyfuno yn parhau i fod yn flaenoriaeth i Lywodraeth Cymru, ac mae'r gwaith hwnnw'n ategu ac yn adeiladu ar y gwaith y cyfeiriodd Sioned Williams ato, a gyflawnwyd gan Richard Wyn Jones a Rob Jones, sydd wedi tynnu sylw at werth data tryloyw a hygyrch ar y system gyfiawnder yng Nghymru. Ar ben hynny, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi datblygu dangosfyrddau data rhyngweithiol i lunio a lledaenu data cyfiawnder Cymru, ac mae dangosfwrdd cyfiawnder ieuenctid wedi'i gyhoeddi gyda mwy i'w ddilyn. Mae'r dangosfyrddau hyn yn cyflwyno data sydd ar gael i'r cyhoedd gan y Weinyddiaeth Gyfiawnder mewn ffordd hygyrch ac effeithiol iawn.
Ym maes iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, mae sefydlu bwrdd gweithredu a herio, dan gadeiryddiaeth Judith Paget, prif weithredwr GIG Cymru a chyfarwyddwr cyffredinol y grŵp iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yma yn Llywodraeth Cymru, wedi darparu llywodraethiant ac atebolrwydd cryf a chadarn i gyflymu'r broses o weithredu'r cynllun gweithredu. Rwy'n credu bod yr arddangosiad hwn o arweinyddiaeth ar y lefel uchaf wedi sicrhau bod proffil uchel iawn i weithredoedd gwrth-hiliol. Mae'r bwrdd wedi gwahodd partneriaid a rhanddeiliaid allanol i gyflwyno'r rhwystrau a'r heriau y maent yn eu hwynebu wrth roi'r cynllun gweithredu ar waith, ac i weithredu fel cyfaill beirniadol. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru hefyd yn gweithio'n agos gyda Gofal Cymdeithasol Cymru i sicrhau amrywiaeth yn eu penodiadau cyhoeddus drwy eu hymarfer recriwtio presennol i'r bwrdd, ac mae cyfarwyddiaeth gwasanaethau cymdeithasol Llywodraeth Cymru yn adolygu aelodaeth pob grŵp rhanddeiliaid i osod disgwyliadau uchel o gynrychiolaeth o gymunedau lleiafrifoedd ethnig.
Cymru yw'r wlad gyntaf yn y DU i sicrhau bod addysgu hanesion pobl dduon, Asiaidd a lleiafrifol ethnig yn orfodol yng Nghwricwlwm Cymru. Mae'n bwysig i'n haddysgwyr a'n pobl ifanc ddeall bod yr hanesion hyn yn perthyn i bob un ohonom. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru hefyd yn rhoi ystyriaeth lawn i argymhellion Comisiynydd Plant Cymru yn ei hadroddiad sbotolau ar brofiadau plant o hiliaeth mewn ysgolion uwchradd. Er enghraifft, rydym yn cryfhau ein canllawiau gwrth-fwlio statudol presennol ar gyfer ysgolion, 'Hawliau, parch, cydraddoldeb', ac rydym yn gwneud hyn drwy ddiweddaru'r canllawiau presennol i gynghori lleoliadau addysg ar sut i fynd i'r afael â bwlio ac aflonyddu sy'n gysylltiedig â rhagfarn mewn modd effeithiol, ac mae hynny'n cynnwys digwyddiadau hiliol. Mae gan ysgolion a lleoliadau addysgol rôl hanfodol i fynd ati i greu amodau gwrth-hiliol i sicrhau nad yw profiadau a chyfleoedd heddiw yn cael eu difetha gan anghydraddoldebau a hiliaeth y gorffennol.
Rwyf eisoes wedi ymateb i argymhellion y pwyllgor, ac rwyf eisiau pwysleisio ein gwaith parhaus i ddiweddaru 'Cynllun Gweithredu Cymru Wrth-hiliol'. Rydym wedi ymrwymo'n llwyr i wella iteriadau yn y dyfodol a mynd i'r afael â'r bylchau y cyfeiriodd Sioned Williams atynt, ac sydd wedi'u nodi gan y pwyllgor. Fy ffocws uniongyrchol yw cyhoeddi'r cynllun diwygiedig eleni. Bydd ein hadroddiad blynyddol nesaf yn edrych ar yr effaith a wnaed ar draws meysydd polisi gwahanol o fewn Llywodraeth Cymru. Mae cryfhau cydweithrediad gyda phartneriaid ar draws y sector cyhoeddus ehangach a'r trydydd sector yng Nghymru hefyd yn flaenoriaeth allweddol.
Mae ein diben yn glir: gwneud newidiadau ystyrlon a mesuradwy i fywydau pobl dduon, Asiaidd a lleiafrifol ethnig drwy fynd i'r afael â hiliaeth; mewn gwirionedd, i bob cymuned sy'n profi hiliaeth a rhagfarn, ac fe gyfeiriodd John Griffiths yn huawdl iawn at gymunedau Sipsiwn a Theithwyr—
Will you take an intervention from Sioned Williams?
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad gan Sioned Williams?
Sorry?
Mae'n ddrwg gennyf?
Will you take an intervention from Sioned Williams?
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad gan Sioned Williams?
Can I just finish this? John Griffiths very eloquently identified Gypsy, Traveller and Roma communities, which absolutely do face that. Yes, I'll take an intervention.
A gaf i orffen hyn? Fe gyfeiriodd John Griffiths yn huawdl iawn at gymunedau Sipsiwn, Teithwyr a Roma, sy'n sicr yn wynebu hynny. Iawn, fe wnaf dderbyn ymyriad.
Sioned.
Sioned.
Diolch, Ysgrifennydd Cabinet. Rwyf jest eisiau mynd yn ôl at bwynt, roeddech chi'n sôn yn fanna am y gwaith ac ymdrechion Llywodraeth Cymru, a'ch swyddogion, ynghyd â phartneriaid, o fewn y glasbrintiau cyfiawnder, er enghraifft, i fynd i'r afael â'r hyn y mae'r adroddiad yn ei ddisgrifio, ond a ydych chi'n derbyn bod y trefniadau cyfansoddiadol presennol, yng ngeiriau Dr Robert Jones, yn fygythiad sylweddol i weledigaeth y cynllun gweithredu gwrth-hiliol?
Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. I just wanted to go back to the point, you mentioned the work and the efforts of the Welsh Government, and your officials, as well as your partners, within the justice blueprints, for example, to tackle what the report describes, but do you accept that the current constitutional arrangements, in the words of Dr Robert Jones, are a significant threat to the vision of the anti-racist action plan?
I think it's really important that we work collaboratively. I'm not aware of the specific words that you referred to, but I think it is really important that we work together. You can say this about many aspects of policy development: the Welsh Government can't do this on their own. And I hope I've described and explained the work that we're doing is not just across Government, it's with all our public bodies. Everyone has a part to play in relation to this. I'm committed to tackling systemic and cultural racism in all forms as a priority. What we need to do is absolutely use every lever available. We all need to take a leading role in eradicating racism here in Wales.
Rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig iawn ein bod yn gweithio ar y cyd. Nid wyf yn ymwybodol o'r geiriau penodol y gwnaethoch chi gyfeirio atynt, ond credaf ei bod yn bwysig iawn ein bod yn gweithio gyda'n gilydd. Gallwch ddweud hyn am sawl agwedd ar ddatblygu polisi: ni all Llywodraeth Cymru wneud hyn ar ei phen ei hun. Ac rwy'n gobeithio fy mod wedi disgrifio ac egluro nad yw'r gwaith a wnawn ond yn digwydd ar draws y Llywodraeth yn unig; mae'n digwydd gyda'n holl gyrff cyhoeddus. Mae gan bawb ran i'w chwarae mewn perthynas â hyn. Rwyf wedi ymrwymo i fynd i'r afael â hiliaeth systemig a diwylliannol ar bob ffurf fel blaenoriaeth. Yr hyn y mae angen i ni ei wneud yw defnyddio pob dull sydd ar gael i ni. Mae angen i bob un ohonom chwarae rhan flaenllaw yn y gwaith o gael gwared ar hiliaeth yma yng Nghymru.
Galwaf yn awr ar Jenny Rathbone i ymateb i'r ddadl.
I now call on Jenny Rathbone to reply to the debate.
Thank you very much. First, I just want to thank the clerks and the research service for the excellent support they gave to the committee. I also want to thank all members of the committee for their commitment to social justice, including the three Members who have left the committee since we published this report, and they are Ken Skates and Sarah Murphy, who obviously are not in a position to contribute to this debate today, and Altaf Hussain, who is a wonderful advocate of anti-racism. We've been very grateful for Altaf Hussain and hope to work with him as an ongoing thing. I also want to pay tribute to Jane Hutt, who's been a tireless advocate of equality and social justice, and who has been leading on this until very recently.
Altaf Hussain talks about structural racism, which is impenetrable and goes unnoticed. Yes, we're one of the most tolerant countries in the western world, and only marginally behind Sweden, but that doesn't mean to say we haven't got to work even harder to achieve the anti-racist Wales that the plan foresees, because not to do so is to not have the full support of all the talent that is in Wales. It impacts on our economy, on our education and every other aspect of our cohesion in our communities, so this is a really significant issue for all of us.
I think Altaf highlights a really serious issue, which is the fact that only 0.2 per cent of our teachers are black, because, realistically, how can we address racism that children have brought into the schools, learnt from the adults in their lives? No child is born racist. In fact, they are completely blind to difference of any sort when they're two, three, four or five, but, later on, they start to hear and adopt the attitudes of other people in their lives, and it's only in school that we can really address this. So, it's absolutely vital, particularly when so many teachers as a profession lack the confidence to call out racism in the classroom, which is, obviously, where it occurs.
This is something that absolutely has to change, and can change, because we used to have a huge amount of misogyny and gender-based violence in the language that people were using in schools. There's a lot less misogyny going on now, because everybody's recognised that that is something we need to tackle. But we obviously have to change the whole culture of our teaching and learning if we're going to reap the benefits of the new curriculum, particularly around relationships, values and ethics, which we must embrace if we're going to achieve an anti-racist Wales.
Jane Dodds also spoke about the importance of tackling the suffering by children and cites the evidence marshalled in the children's commissioner's report around bullying and microaggression. Clearly, it is urgent for the Cabinet Secretary for social justice, I think, to discuss with the education Cabinet Secretary how we're going to address this. Complacency is the enemy of progress, and we really have to address it.
I'm so delighted that John Griffiths stood up and spoke about the Gypsy, Traveller and Roma community. What a champion you are for action on discrimination against the community that has the worst outcomes on educational attainment and the highest numbers of exclusions, as also indicated by the children's commissioner. We really do have to act on this. No child should be excluded from school, because that is an absolute guaranteed pathway into the criminal justice system at secondary school level, or into the mental health pathway. So we cannot go on like this.
On housing, we have to come back to this. I note Gareth Davies's report, and I'm sure we'll want to look carefully and forensically at why it is that Denbighshire does not have a Traveller site. It can't just be to do with the A55 only being in—[Interruption.] I'm not sure I've got time.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Yn gyntaf, hoffwn ddiolch i'r clercod a'r gwasanaeth ymchwil am y gefnogaeth ardderchog a roesant i'r pwyllgor. Rwyf hefyd eisiau diolch i holl aelodau'r pwyllgor am eu hymrwymiad i gyfiawnder cymdeithasol, gan gynnwys y tri Aelod sydd wedi gadael y pwyllgor ers inni gyhoeddi'r adroddiad hwn, sef Ken Skates a Sarah Murphy, sy'n amlwg heb fod mewn sefyllfa i gyfrannu at y ddadl hon heddiw, ac Altaf Hussain, sy'n eiriolwr gwych dros wrth-hiliaeth. Rydym wedi bod yn ddiolchgar iawn am Altaf Hussain ac yn gobeithio gweithio gydag ef ar sail barhaus. Rwyf hefyd eisiau talu teyrnged i Jane Hutt, sydd wedi bod yn eiriolwr diflino dros gydraddoldeb a chyfiawnder cymdeithasol, ac sydd wedi bod yn arwain ar hyn tan yn ddiweddar iawn.
Mae Altaf Hussain yn siarad am hiliaeth strwythurol, rhywbeth dyrys nad yw pobl yn sylweddoli ei fod yno. Ydym, rydym yn un o'r gwledydd mwyaf goddefgar yn y byd gorllewinol, ddim ond ychydig bach y tu ôl i Sweden, ond nid yw hynny'n golygu nad oes rhaid i ni weithio'n galetach fyth i gyflawni'r Gymru wrth-hiliol y mae'r cynllun hwn yn ei rhagweld, oherwydd byddai peidio â gwneud hynny yn golygu peidio â chael cefnogaeth lawn yr holl dalent sydd yng Nghymru. Mae'n effeithio ar ein heconomi, ar ein haddysg a phob agwedd arall ar gydlyniant ein cymunedau, felly mae hwn yn fater gwirioneddol arwyddocaol i bob un ohonom.
Rwy'n credu bod Altaf yn tynnu sylw at fater difrifol iawn, sef y ffaith mai dim ond 0.2 y cant o'n hathrawon sy'n ddu, oherwydd, yn realistig, sut y gallwn fynd i'r afael â hiliaeth y mae plant wedi'i ddwyn i mewn i'r ysgolion, wedi'i ddysgu gan yr oedolion yn eu bywydau? Nid oes unrhyw blentyn yn cael ei eni'n hiliol. Mewn gwirionedd, maent yn hollol ddall i unrhyw wahaniaethu pan yndynt yn ddwy, tair, pedair neu bump oed, ond yn nes ymlaen, maent yn dechrau clywed a mabwysiadu agweddau pobl eraill yn eu bywydau, a dim ond yn yr ysgol y gallwn ni fynd i'r afael â hyn mewn gwirionedd. Felly, mae'n gwbl hanfodol, yn enwedig pan nad oes gan gynifer o athrawon fel proffesiwn hyder i herio hiliaeth yn yr ystafell ddosbarth, sef lle mae'n digwydd wrth gwrs.
Mae'n rhaid i hyn newid, ac fe all newid, oherwydd roeddem yn arfer gweld llawer iawn o gasineb at fenywod a thrais ar sail rhywedd o ran yr iaith yr oedd pobl yn ei defnyddio mewn ysgolion. Mae llawer llai o gasineb at fenywod nawr, oherwydd mae pawb wedi cydnabod bod hwnnw'n rhywbeth y mae angen inni fynd i'r afael ag ef. Ond yn amlwg mae'n rhaid inni newid holl ddiwylliant ein haddysgu a'n dysgu os ydym am elwa ar fanteision y cwricwlwm newydd, yn enwedig o ran perthnasoedd, gwerthoedd a moeseg y mae'n rhaid inni eu croesawu os ydym am gyflawni Cymru wrth-hiliol.
Siaradodd Jane Dodds hefyd am bwysigrwydd mynd i'r afael â dioddefaint plant a dyfynnodd y dystiolaeth a nodwyd yn adroddiad y comisiynydd plant ynghylch bwlio a mân-weithredoedd ymosodol. Yn amlwg, mae gwir angen i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros gyfiawnder cymdeithasol drafod gydag Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros addysg sut yr awn i'r afael â hyn. Hunanfodlonrwydd yw gelyn cynnydd, ac mae gwir angen inni fynd i'r afael â hyn.
Rwy'n falch iawn fod John Griffiths wedi siarad am gymunedau Sipsiwn, Teithwyr a Roma. Rydych chi'n eiriolwr gwych dros weithredu ar wahaniaethu yn erbyn y gymuned sydd â'r canlyniadau gwaethaf o ran cyrhaeddiad addysgol a'r nifer uchaf o waharddiadau, fel y nodwyd hefyd gan y comisiynydd plant. Mae'n rhaid i ni weithredu ar hyn. Ni ddylai unrhyw blentyn gael ei wahardd o'r ysgol, oherwydd mae hwnnw'n llwybr hollol sicr i mewn i'r system cyfiawnder troseddol ar lefel ysgol uwchradd, neu i'r llwybr iechyd meddwl. Felly, ni allwn barhau fel hyn.
Ar dai, mae'n rhaid inni ddod yn ôl at hyn. Rwy'n nodi adroddiad Gareth Davies, ac rwy'n siŵr y byddwn eisiau edrych yn ofalus ac yn fforensig i weld pam nad oes gan sir Ddinbych safle Teithwyr. Ni all ymwneud yn unig â'r A55 yn—[Torri ar draws.] Nid wyf yn siŵr fod gennyf amser.
I'll give you time, don't worry.
Fe roddaf amser i chi, peidiwch â phoeni.
The issue I was highlighting was a constituency issue that was in St Asaph in 2018. They tried to make progress in terms of trying to get that, and I would urge you to do some research on some of the local activity. As that constituency Member for St Asaph, whose job it is to be here and represent the views of my constituents, that was the issue I'm trying to highlight, in that the geographical reality of Denbighshire makes that a challenge. It’s nothing about the issue. It's more of a practical and logistical argument I'm trying to make.
Roeddwn yn tynnu sylw at fater a gododd yn yr etholaeth yn Llanelwy yn 2018. Fe wnaethant geisio gwneud cynnydd o ran ceisio cael hynny, ac fe fyddwn yn eich annog i wneud ymchwil ar beth o'r gweithgarwch lleol. Fel yr Aelod etholaethol dros Lanelwy, fy swydd i yw bod yma i gynrychioli barn fy etholwyr, a dyna rwy'n ceisio tynnu sylw ato, a bod realiti ddaearyddol sir Ddinbych yn gwneud hynny'n her. Nid yw'n ymwneud â'r mater. Mae'r pwynt rwy'n ceisio ei wneud yn un mwy ymarferol a logistaidd.
We need to take a forensic look at this, either in the Equality and Social Justice Committee or in the Local Government and Housing Committee, because we cannot go on like this, not spending the money that has been allocated for addressing the housing needs of this particular community.
I applaud Sioned for her equality campaigning for 20 years. We definitely have to put our money where our mouth is, particularly around housing. But I'm very grateful to Sioned for raising another important issue I didn't have time for in my earlier remarks, which is around the systematic discrimination and over-representation of ethnic minorities in the criminal justice system, at all levels of the criminal justice system, which is truly shocking and is not unrelated to the levels of exclusions that I mentioned earlier. Exclusion is most definitely a guaranteed passport to either mental illness or the criminal justice system, because you are basically turfing kids out of school and saying, ‘There is no future for you’. And Dr Robert Jones's evidence and statistics are there in plain sight, so nobody can say we didn't know.
I just want to highlight recommendation 10, which is around the need to establish an observatory to pull together all the research of all nine universities, because in all of them there are people doing work related to criminal justice, and it seems to me that we need to have a dashboard where we can refer to the best available evidence on this really important subject.
Lesley Griffiths, you were very clear, and you gave good evidence, that there are very high-level people leading on the on the task and finish group, leading on the health services, and that you are paying special attention to the children's commissioner’s points, and how we are going to address and respect the rights of all groups in our society. We are delighted, I'm sure, to hear that your next annual report will look at impact, because that is absolutely what we want to see, and that is what our stakeholders told us they want to see. So, we really look forward to that, and sharing it and discussing some of the challenges that no doubt that will throw up.
In closing, I want to emphasise the title of our report, which is ‘Action, not words’. There's nothing inevitable about progress. It requires hard work, bravery and determination. We all support the aim. We absolutely all support the aim, across all parties. But we need the Welsh Government to plot the route we are due to travel. If we are to achieve this by 2030, which is only less than six years away, then each of us will need to be active, not passive, in this endeavour.
Mae angen inni edrych ar hyn yn fforensig, naill ai yn y Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb a Chyfiawnder Cymdeithasol neu yn y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai, oherwydd ni allwn barhau fel hyn, yn peidio â gwario'r arian a ddyrannwyd i fynd i'r afael ag anghenion tai'r gymuned benodol hon.
Rwy'n canmol Sioned am ymgyrchu dros gydraddoldeb ers 20 mlynedd. Yn bendant, mae'n rhaid inni roi ein harian ar ein gair, yn enwedig mewn perthynas â thai. Ond rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn i Sioned am godi mater pwysig arall nad oedd gennyf amser i'w grybwyll yn fy sylwadau cynharach, yn ymwneud â gwahaniaethu systematig a gorgynrychiolaeth lleiafrifoedd ethnig yn y system cyfiawnder troseddol, ar bob lefel o'r system cyfiawnder troseddol, sy'n wirioneddol frawychus ac sy'n gysylltiedig â lefel y gwaharddiadau y soniais amdanynt yn gynharach. Mae gwahardd yn basbort pendant naill ai i salwch meddwl neu'r system cyfiawnder troseddol, oherwydd yn y bôn, rydych chi'n troi plant o'r ysgol ac yn dweud, 'Nid oes dyfodol i chi'. Ac mae tystiolaeth ac ystadegau Dr Robert Jones yno i bawb eu gweld, felly ni all neb ddweud nad oeddem yn gwybod.
Hoffwn dynnu sylw at argymhelliad 10, sy'n ymwneud â'r angen i sefydlu arsyllfa i ddwyn ynghyd holl ymchwil pob un o'r naw prifysgol, oherwydd ym mhob un ohonynt mae pobl yn gwneud gwaith sy'n gysylltiedig â chyfiawnder troseddol, ac mae'n ymddangos i mi fod angen dangosfwrdd lle gallwn gyfeirio at y dystiolaeth orau sydd ar gael ar y pwnc pwysig hwn.
Lesley Griffiths, roeddech chi'n glir iawn, ac fe roesoch chi dystiolaeth dda, fod yna bobl ar lefel uchel iawn yn arwain ar y grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen, ac yn arwain ar y gwasanaethau iechyd, a'ch bod yn talu sylw arbennig i bwyntiau'r comisiynydd plant, a sut yr awn i'r afael â hawliau pob grŵp yn ein cymdeithas a'u parchu. Rwy'n siŵr ein bod i gyd yn falch o glywed y bydd eich adroddiad blynyddol nesaf yn edrych ar effaith, oherwydd dyna'n union yr hoffem ei weld, a dyna y dywedodd ein rhanddeiliaid wrthym yr hoffent ei weld. Felly, rydym yn edrych ymlaen yn fawr at hwnnw, a'i rannu a thrafod rhai o'r heriau a fydd yn sicr o godi.
I gloi, hoffwn bwysleisio teitl ein hadroddiad, sef 'Gweithredu, nid geiriau'. Nid oes unrhyw beth yn anochel am gynnydd. Mae'n galw am waith caled, dewrder a phenderfyniad. Rydym i gyd yn cefnogi'r nod. Rydym i gyd yn cefnogi'r nod, ar draws pob plaid. Ond mae angen i Lywodraeth Cymru gynllunio'r llwybr y mae gofyn i ni ei ddilyn. Os ydym am gyflawni hyn erbyn 2030, sy'n llai na chwe blynedd i ffwrdd, bydd angen i bob un ohonom fod yn weithgar, nid yn oddefol, yn yr ymdrech hon.
Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid nodi adroddiad y pwyllgor? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Nac oes. Felly, derbynnir y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Detholwyd y gwelliannau canlynol: gwelliant 1 yn enw Jane Hutt, a gwelliannau 2, 3, 4 a 5 yn enw Heledd Fychan. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 eu dad-ddethol.
The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Jane Hutt, and amendments 2, 3, 4 and 5 in the name of Heledd Fychan. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2, 3 and 4 will be deselected.
Eitem 7 heddiw yw dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig, polisi economaidd. Galwaf ar Sam Kurtz i wneud y cynnig.
Today's item 7 is the Welsh Conservative debate on economic policy, and I call on Sam Kurtz to move the motion.
Cynnig NDM8606 Darren Millar
Cynnig bod y Senedd:
1. Yn croesawu:
a) cynllun clir a chamau dewr Llywodraeth y DU i bennu llwybr er mwyn sicrhau dyfodol diogel;
b) camau Llywodraeth y DU i leihau chwyddiant o 11.1 y cant i 2.3 y cant;
c) y ffaith mai’r DU yw’r economi sy'n tyfu gyflymaf yn y G7;
d) y bargeinion twf rhanbarthol ym mhob rhan o Gymru, sy'n sicrhau mai Cymru yw’r unig genedl Bargeinion Twf yn y DU; ac
e) porthladdoedd rhydd Llywodraeth y DU yng ngogledd a de Cymru, ynghyd â’i pharthau buddsoddi ar gyfer gweithgynhyrchu uwch.
2. Yn gresynu bod gan Gymru, o dan Lywodraeth Cymru:
a) y gyfradd gyflogaeth isaf;
b) y cyflogau canolrifol isaf; ac
c) y gyfradd uchaf o anweithgarwch economaidd yn y DU.
3. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i greu amgylchedd i fusnesau fuddsoddi a chreu swyddi drwy:
a) sicrhau ffyniant bröydd ledled Cymru gyda lefelau cymesur o fuddsoddiad ym mhob rhan o’r wlad;
b) adfer rhyddhad ardrethi busnes i 75 y cant ar gyfer y sector manwerthu, lletygarwch a hamdden i gefnogi busnesau a diogelu swyddi;
c) cael gwared ar ardrethi busnes i fusnesau bach;
d) galluogi microfusnesau i dyfu gyda chynllun sbardun gan dalu yswiriant gwladol ar ran y cyflogwr ar gyfer dau gyflogai am ddwy flynedd;
e) cyflwyno 150,000 o brentisiaethau newydd yn nhymor y Senedd nesaf; ac
f) creu cynllun i roi hwb i fusnesau lleol, a'i ariannu'n llawn, er mwyn cefnogi egin fusnesau.
Motion NDM8606 Darren Millar
To propose that the Senedd:
1. Welcomes:
a) the UK Government’s clear plan and bold action to chart a course to a secure future;
b) the UK Government’s action in cutting inflation from 11.1 per cent to 2.3 per cent;
c) the UK being the fastest growing economy in the G7;
d) the regional growth deals in every part of Wales, making Wales the only Growth Deal nation in the UK; and
e) the UK Government’s Freeports in North and South Wales, along with investment zones for advanced manufacturing.
2. Regrets that under the Welsh Government, Wales has:
a) the lowest employment rate;
b) the lowest median wages; and
c) and the highest economic inactivity rate in the UK.
3. Calls on the Welsh Government to create an environment for businesses to invest and create jobs by:
a) levelling-up across Wales with proportionate levels of investment in all parts of the country;
b) reinstating business rates relief to 75 per cent for the retail, hospitality and leisure sector to support businesses and protect jobs;
c) abolishing business rates for small business;
d) enabling micro businesses to grow with a jump start scheme paying the employer national insurance for two employees for two years;
e) delivering 150,000 new apprenticeships over the next Senedd term; and
f) creating and fully funding a local business kickstarter scheme to support start-ups.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I welcome the opportunity to open this debate and move the motion in the name of Darren Millar. It's a pleasure to talk about the Welsh economy this afternoon. Wales is a nation of enterprise, and home to so much innovation in so many sectors. From agriculture to healthcare innovation, there are entrepreneurs and businesses everywhere putting Wales on the map. From Valero and RWE to Velfrey Vineyard and Liz's Bakery in Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire, Wales alike has a breadth of fantastic, diverse and brilliant businesses in every one of our constituencies.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n croesawu'r cyfle i agor y ddadl hon a gwneud y cynnig yn enw Darren Millar. Mae'n bleser siarad am economi Cymru y prynhawn yma. Mae Cymru'n genedl fenter, ac yn gartref i gymaint o arloesedd mewn cymaint o sectorau. O amaethyddiaeth i arloesedd gofal iechyd, mae entrepreneuriaid a busnesau ym mhobman yn rhoi Cymru ar y map. O Valero ac RWE i Velfrey Vineyard a Liz's Bakery yng Ngorllewin Caerfyrddin a De Sir Benfro, mae gan Gymru ehangder o fusnesau anhygoel, amrywiol a gwych ym mhob un o'n hetholaethau.
But life hasn't always been easy for our innovators. The COVID-19 pandemic made life difficult for all of us and our businesses were hit hard by the restrictions that were put in place. Thankfully, the actions taken by the then Chancellor of the Exchequer, Rishi Sunak, on behalf of the country saved and supported over 11 million jobs—that's 11 million jobs. It is a fact that the UK Government's furlough scheme saved jobs and protected livelihoods during this difficult period. However, this came with a price tag. Combined with the war in Ukraine, which pushed food and fuel prices higher globally, the UK needed a secure plan to stabilise our finances and lower inflation, and I believe that the UK Government has delivered on that.
Of course, high inflation has been a global issue for the past few years, with countries such as Germany, Canada and Italy all experiencing high inflation. And we know that inflation hits working families the hardest, which is why the work done by the UK Government to see inflation fall from 11.1 per cent down to 2.3 per cent has been so important. This is good news. The plan is working. Lower inflation meant wages could catch up and eventually interest rates can come down, putting more money in the pockets of hard-working people the length and breadth of Wales.
UK wage growth has consistently outstripped inflation since mid 2023. Specifically, pay excluding bonuses grew by 6.2 per cent in the last quarter of 2023, compared to the same period in 2022. This trend continued into early 2024, with wage growth remaining strong. We also welcome that the UK is now the fastest-growing economy in the G7. This again shows that the plan is working, and Wales is directly benefiting.
Members will all welcome the regional growth deals that have taken place. Indeed, Wales is the only nation in the UK that can be classed as a growth deal nation, with growth deals reaching every corner of our country. In 2023, two new £160 million investment zones were announced in north-east and south-east Wales, and of course there was the announcement of the Celtic and Anglesey free ports. A further £319 million was allocated in levelling-up funding for projects across Wales, working directly with local authorities to deliver projects, putting the power and decision making closer to the people who benefit—positive economic measures that will deliver positive outcomes the length and breadth of Wales.
And yet, for all the positive work that has been done by the UK Government, Wales has not been able to reach its potential because we've had for 25 years economic mismanagement by successive Welsh Labour administrations here in Cardiff Bay. We only have to look at the Welsh Government's own statistics to see data showing the underperformance of the Welsh economy compared to the UK as a whole. Of the 12 economic areas of the UK, Wales comes in at eleventh.
But what do these statistics mean for the people of Wales? These aren't just abstract numbers—they have real-world consequences for workers and their families. For instance, Wales has the lowest employment rate in the UK. Furthermore, if someone is employed, they can expect to earn less than their UK counterparts. Why is this Welsh Government so content and accepting of Wales being at the bottom of every league table once again? This surely must anger us all.
But this doesn't have to be the case. Wales can be and can do better. This is why the motion calls on the Welsh Government to create an environment for businesses to invest and create jobs, help businesses do what they do best—create jobs, create wealth and create growth. Governments can't create jobs, but they can create the right environment for jobs to be created. This is why we are calling on the Welsh Government to reinstate business rate relief to 75 per cent, to abolish business rates for small businesses and to adopt our jump start scheme for microbusinesses, paying the employer national insurance for two employees for two years.
While these measures will greatly benefit companies in the short term, we must think long term to fully capitalise on the fantastic opportunities in nuclear, wind, floating offshore wind and other infrastructure projects. This is why we are also calling for the Welsh Government to support 150,000 new apprenticeships over the next Senedd term. These will be jobs of the future, securing careers for our young people and giving us the ability to deliver projects that will benefit Wales, and the rest of the UK, for decades to come.
Dirprwy Lywydd, Wales is a nation of great innovators. Our people are full of passion, hard work and commitment, and so the Welsh Government must do more to provide conditions for growth for the future. We must look at technological innovation across the world, seize opportunities on our doorstep, and develop a landscape that encourages entrepreneurship across the country. We can and we must create the conditions for entrepreneurs to thrive. And on that note, I urge Members to support the motion this afternoon. Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd.
Ond nid yw bywyd bob amser wedi bod yn hawdd i'n harloeswyr. Roedd pandemig COVID-19 yn gwneud bywyd yn anodd i bob un ohonom ac fe gafodd ein busnesau eu taro'n galed gan y cyfyngiadau a roddwyd ar waith. Diolch byth, drwy'r camau a gymerwyd ar ran y wlad gan Ganghellor y Trysorlys ar y pryd, Rishi Sunak, cafodd dros 11 miliwn o swyddi eu hachub—11 miliwn o swyddi. Mae'n ffaith bod cynllun ffyrlo Llywodraeth y DU wedi achub swyddi a diogelu bywoliaeth pobl yn ystod y cyfnod anodd hwn. Fodd bynnag, ni ddaeth heb ei bris. Ochr yn ochr â'r rhyfel yn Wcráin, a arweiniodd at gynnydd mewn prisiau bwyd a thanwydd yn fyd-eang, roedd y DU angen cynllun diogel i sefydlogi ein cyllid a gostwng chwyddiant, ac rwy'n credu bod Llywodraeth y DU wedi cyflawni hynny.
Wrth gwrs, mae chwyddiant uchel wedi bod yn broblem fyd-eang dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, gyda gwledydd fel yr Almaen, Canada a'r Eidal i gyd yn profi chwyddiant uchel. Ac fe wyddom mai teuluoedd sy'n gweithio sy'n cael eu taro galetaf gan chwyddiant, a dyna pam fod y gwaith a wnaeth Llywodraeth y DU i ostwng chwyddiant o 11.1 y cant i 2.3 y cant wedi bod mor bwysig. Mae hyn yn newyddion da. Mae'r cynllun yn gweithio. Roedd chwyddiant is yn golygu y gallai cyflogau ddal i fyny, ac yn y pen draw, y gall cyfraddau llog ostwng, gan roi mwy o arian ym mhocedi pobl weithgar ar hyd a lled Cymru.
Mae twf cyflogau yn y DU wedi bod yn fwy na chwyddiant yn gyson ers canol 2023. Yn benodol, yn ystod chwarter olaf 2023, gwelwyd cynnydd o 6.2 y cant mewn cyflogau heb gyfrif taliadau bonws, o'i gymharu â'r un cyfnod yn 2022. Parhaodd y duedd hon i mewn i ddechrau 2024, gyda thwf cyflogau'n parhau'n gryf. Rydym hefyd yn croesawu'r ffaith mai'r DU yw'r economi sy'n tyfu gyflymaf yn y G7 bellach. Mae hyn eto'n dangos bod y cynllun yn gweithio, a bod Cymru'n elwa'n uniongyrchol.
Bydd pob Aelod yn croesawu'r bargeinion twf rhanbarthol a welsom. Yn wir, Cymru yw'r unig wlad yn y DU y gellir ei galw'n genedl bargen twf, gyda bargeinion twf yn cyrraedd pob cornel o'n gwlad. Yn 2023, cyhoeddwyd dau barth buddsoddi newydd gwerth £160 miliwn yng ngogledd-ddwyrain a de-ddwyrain Cymru, ac wrth gwrs cafwyd y cyhoeddiad am y porthladd rhydd Celtaidd a phorthladd rhydd Ynys Môn. Dyrannwyd £319 miliwn pellach mewn cyllid ffyniant bro ar gyfer prosiectau ledled Cymru, gan weithio'n uniongyrchol gydag awdurdodau lleol i gyflawni prosiectau, a dod a'r pŵer a'r penderfyniadau yn nes at y bobl sy'n elwa ohonynt—mesurau economaidd cadarnhaol a fydd yn sicrhau canlyniadau cadarnhaol ar hyd a lled Cymru.
Ac eto, er gwaethaf yr holl waith cadarnhaol sydd wedi'i wneud gan Lywodraeth y DU, nid yw Cymru wedi gallu cyrraedd ei photensial oherwydd ein bod wedi cael 25 mlynedd o gamreoli economaidd gan weinyddiaethau Llafur Cymru olynol yma ym Mae Caerdydd. Nid oes ond angen inni edrych ar ystadegau Llywodraeth Cymru ei hun i weld data sy'n dangos bod economi Cymru'n tangyflawni o gymharu â'r DU gyfan. O 12 ardal economaidd y DU, mae Cymru'n olaf ond un.
Ond beth mae'r ystadegau hyn yn ei olygu i bobl Cymru? Nid rhifau haniaethol yn unig yw'r rhain—mae ganddynt ganlyniadau yn y byd go iawn i weithwyr a'u teuluoedd. Er enghraifft, Cymru sydd â'r gyfradd gyflogaeth isaf yn y DU. Ar ben hynny, os yw rhywun yn gyflogedig, gallant ddisgwyl ennill llai na'u cydweithwyr yn y DU. Pam fod y Llywodraeth hon mor barod i dderbyn bod Cymru ar waelod pob tabl cynghrair unwaith eto? Rhaid bod hyn yn ein cythruddo ni i gyd.
Ond nid oes rhaid iddi fod felly. Gall Cymru fod yn well, a gall Cymru wneud yn well. Dyma pam mae'r cynnig yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i greu amgylchedd i fusnesau fuddsoddi a chreu swyddi, helpu busnesau i wneud yr hyn y maent yn ei wneud orau—creu swyddi, creu cyfoeth a chreu twf. Ni all llywodraethau greu swyddi, ond gallant greu'r amgylchedd cywir i swyddi gael eu creu. Dyna pam ein bod yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i adfer rhyddhad ardrethi busnes i 75 y cant, i ddiddymu ardrethi busnes i fusnesau bach a mabwysiadu ein cynllun sbardun ar gyfer microfusnesau, gan dalu yswiriant gwladol ar ran y cyflogwr ar gyfer dau gyflogai am ddwy flynedd.
Er y bydd y mesurau hyn o fudd mawr i gwmnïau yn y tymor byr, rhaid inni feddwl yn hirdymor i fanteisio i'r eithaf ar y cyfleoedd gwych mewn ynni niwclear, gwynt, gwynt arnofiol ar y môr a phrosiectau seilwaith eraill. Dyna pam ein bod hefyd yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i gefnogi 150,000 o brentisiaethau newydd dros dymor nesaf y Senedd. Y rhain fydd swyddi'r dyfodol, gan sicrhau gyrfaoedd i'n pobl ifanc a rhoi'r gallu inni gyflawni prosiectau a fydd o fudd i Gymru, a gweddill y DU, am ddegawdau i ddod.
Ddirprwy Lywydd, mae Cymru yn genedl o arloeswyr gwych. Mae ein pobl yn llawn angerdd, gwaith caled ac ymrwymiad, ac felly mae'n rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru wneud mwy i ddarparu amodau i sicrhau twf ar gyfer y dyfodol. Mae'n rhaid inni edrych ar arloesedd technolegol ar draws y byd, manteisio ar gyfleoedd ar garreg ein drws, a datblygu tirwedd sy'n annog entrepreneuriaeth ledled y wlad. Fe allwn greu'r amodau i entrepreneuriaid ffynnu, ac mae'n rhaid inni wneud hynny. Ac ar y nodyn hwnnw, rwy'n annog yr Aelodau i gefnogi'r cynnig y prynhawn yma. Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd.
Rwyf wedi dethol y pum gwelliant i'r cynnig. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 eu dad-ddethol. Galwaf ar Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros yr Economi, Ynni a'r Gymraeg i gynnig yn ffurfiol welliant 1.
I have selected the five amendments to the motion. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2, 3 and 4 will be deselected. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language to move formally amendment 1.
Gwelliant 1—Jane Hutt
Dileu popeth a rhoi yn ei le:
Cynnig bod y Senedd:
1. Yn croesawu:
a) cynllun clir Llywodraeth Cymru a amlinellir yn y ddogfen Cenhadaeth Economaidd: Blaenoriaethau ar gyfer Economi Gryfach;
b) y ffaith bod cyflogau wedi codi’n gyflymach yng Nghymru nag yn Lloegr ers 2011;
c) y ffaith bod gwaith rhanbarthol a phartneriaethau mor gadarn;
d) buddsoddiad gwerth dros £143 miliwn gan Lywodraeth Cymru mewn prentisiaethau o safon uchel;
e) y ffaith bod Gwarant i Bobl Ifanc Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cefnogi dros 27,000 o bobl ifanc;
f) y buddsoddiad sydd wedi parhau drwy Busnes Cymru a Banc Datblygu Cymru;
g) darparu gwerth dros £140m mewn rhyddhad ardrethi i fusnesau bach sy’n cefnogi trethdalwyr oddeutu 70,000 eiddo ledled Cymru bob blwyddyn; a
h) y cyfraniad o £78m sy’n golygu bod busnesau manwerthu, hamdden a lletygarwch wedi derbyn cymorth bob blwyddyn am y pum mlynedd diwethaf gyda’u biliau ardrethi annomestig.
2. Yn gresynu at y canlynol o dan Lywodraeth y DU:
a) diffyg cynllun economaidd a diwydiannol clir heb unrhyw gynlluniau gwario manwl ar ôl 2024-25, gan arwain at 14 o flynyddoedd o anrhefn;
b) bod prisiau’n parhau i godi ar gyfradd uwch, sy’n golygu mai dyma’r cynnydd mwyaf ers annibyniaeth Banc Lloegr, a’r ffaith eu bod 21.3 y cant yn uwch ym mis Ebrill nag oeddent dair blynedd cyn hynny;
c) bod gan Lywodraeth Cymru Gyllideb yn 2024-25 sy’n £3 biliwn yn is na chyllideb a fyddai wedi cynyddu yn unol â Chynnyrch Domestig Gros ers 2010; a
d) bod gan Gymru bron i £1.3 biliwn yn llai o gyllid mewn termau real yn sgil methiant Llywodraeth y DU i anrhydeddu ei hymrwymiadau a chyflwyno cyllid llawn yn lle cyllid yr UE.
3. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth bresennol y DU i gydnabod:
a) mai’r newidiadau i’r gyfradd sylfaenol gan Fanc Lloegr a phrisiau ynni is yw’r prif resymau dros y gostyngiad diweddar mewn chwyddiant;
b) bod y Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol wedi cadarnhau bod problemau gyda’r arolwg o’r llafurlu, sy’n parhau i effeithio ar ansawdd data o ran ystadegau’r farchnad lafur ac nad ydynt yn cyflwyno darlun cywir o’r sefyllfa yng Nghymru;
c) y niwed sylweddol a wnaed i’r Economi yn sgil mini-gyllideb drychinebus Liz Truss, sydd wedi golygu bod pobl a theuluoedd yng Nghymru yn talu morgeisi a biliau uwch; a
d) y cafodd y Gronfa Ffyniant Bro a’r Gronfa Ffyniant Gyffredin eu datblygu heb lawer o waith cynllunio ac ymgynghori ac maent wedi tanseilio datganoli.
Amendment 1—Jane Hutt
Delete all and replace with:
To propose that the Senedd:
1. Welcomes:
a) the Welsh Government’s clear plan set out in the Economic Mission: Priorities for a Stronger Economy;
b) that wages have risen faster in Wales than England since 2011;
c) the strength of regional working and partnerships;
d) the Welsh Government’s investment of over £143 million in quality apprenticeships;
e) the Welsh Government’s Young Person’s Guarantee which has supported over 27,000 young people;
f) continued investment through Business Wales and Development Bank of Wales;
g) the provision of over £140 million small business rates relief which supports ratepayers for around 70,000 properties across Wales every year; and
h) £78 million to provide a fifth successive year of support for retail, leisure and hospitality businesses with their non-domestic rates bills.
2. Regrets that under the UK Government:
a) there has been a lack of a clear economic and industrial plan with no detailed spending plans beyond 2024-25, resulting in 14 years of chaos;
b) there are the most sustained price rises since the Bank of England’s independence, with prices 21.3 per cent higher in April than three years prior;
c) the Welsh Government has a Budget in 2024-25 which is £3 billion lower than if it had grown in line with GDP since 2010; and
d) Wales has almost £1.3 billion less funding in real terms due to the UK Government’s failure to honour its commitments and replace EU funds in full.
3. Calls on the current UK Government to recognise:
a) that base rate changes by the Bank of England and falling energy prices are the principal reason for the recent reduction in inflation;
b) that the ONS has confirmed there are issues with the labour force survey, which continue to affect the data quality of labour market statistics and may not give a true picture of the situation in Wales;
c) the significant harm done to the Economy through Liz Truss’ disastrous mini budget, which has left people and families in Wales paying higher mortgages and bills; and
d) that Levelling Up and Shared Prosperity Funds have been developed with very little planning and consultation and have actively undermined devolution.
Cynigiwyd gwelliant 1.
Amendment 1 moved.
Yn ffurfiol.
Formally.
Galwaf ar Luke Fletcher i gynnig gwelliannau 2, 3, 4 a 5, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Heledd Fychan.
I call on Luke Fletcher to move amendments 2, 3, 4 and 5, tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan.
Gwelliant 2—Heledd Fychan
Dileu pwynt 1 a rhoi yn ei le:
Yn gresynu:
a) y difrod economaidd a wnaed i Gymru yn sgil 14 mlynedd o gyni o dan Lywodraethau Ceidwadol y DU;
b) y niwed economaidd pellach a achoswyd gan Brexit caled a mini-gyllideb honedig Liz Truss;
c) nad yw Cymru'n derbyn cyllid teg gan San Steffan, ac nad yw fformiwla Barnett yn darparu setliad ariannu sy'n adlewyrchu anghenion economaidd, ariannol neu gymdeithasol Cymru;
d) bod Llywodraethau Ceidwadol y DU yn amlwg wedi methu â chodi'r gwastad o ran Cymru, a bod y Gronfa Ffyniant Gyffredin a'r Gronfa Ffyniant Bro wedi cael eu defnyddio i ariannu prosiectau tymor byr dros benaethiaid Llywodraeth Cymru a'r Senedd; ac
e) y cyfraddau uchel o dlodi, yn enwedig tlodi plant, sydd wedi deillio yn sgil dull y Ceidwadwyr o reoli economi'r DU.
Amendment 2—Heledd Fychan
Delete point 1 and replace with:
Regrets:
a) the economic damage done to Wales by 14 years of austerity under Conservative UK Governments;
b) the further economic harm caused by a hard Brexit, and by Liz Truss’ so-called mini-budget;
c) that Wales does not receive fair funding from Westminster, and that the Barnett formula does not deliver a funding settlement that reflects Wales’s economic, financial or social needs;
d) that Conservative UK Governments have conspicuously failed to level up Wales, and that Shared Prosperity and Levelling Up Funding have been used to fund short-term projects over the heads of both the Welsh Government and the Senedd; and
e) the high rates of poverty, particularly of child poverty, that have stemmed from the Conservatives’ approach to managing the UK economy.
Gwelliant 3—Heledd Fychan
Ym mhwynt 2, cynnwys is-bwynt newydd cyn is-bwynt (a) ac ailrifo yn unol â hynny:
dim targedau datblygu economaidd diffiniedig na mesuradwy clir;
Amendment 3—Heledd Fychan
In point 2, insert as new sub-point before sub-point (a) and renumber accordingly:
no clearly defined or measurable economic development targets;
Gwelliant 4—Heledd Fychan
Dileu pwynt 3 a rhoi yn ei le:
Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i greu amgylchedd i fusnesau fuddsoddi a chreu swyddi drwy:
a) sicrhau ffyniant bröydd ledled Cymru gyda lefelau cymesur o fuddsoddiad ym mhob rhan o’r wlad;
b) adfer rhyddhad ardrethi busnes i 75 y cant ar gyfer y sector manwerthu, lletygarwch a hamdden i gefnogi busnesau a diogelu swyddi;
c) gosod targedau economaidd clir a mesuradwy;
d) darparu gwell cynnig cymorth busnes a gwell cymorth cynllunio olyniaeth ar gyfer busnesau bach a chanolig domestig;
e) cyflwyno ymchwil ar drethi newydd posibl er budd busnesau;
f) darparu 150,000 o brentisiaethau newydd dros dymor nesaf y Senedd; a
g) creu cynllun i roi hwb i fusnesau lleol, a'i ariannu'n llawn, er mwyn cefnogi egin fusnesau.
Amendment 4—Heledd Fychan
Delete point 3 and replace with:
Calls on the Welsh Government to create an environment for businesses to invest and create jobs by:
a) levelling-up across Wales with proportionate levels of investment in all parts of the country;
b) reinstating business rates relief to 75 per cent for the retail, hospitality and leisure sector to support businesses and protect jobs;
c) setting clear and measurable economic targets;
d) delivering an improved business support offer and better succession planning support for domestic SMEs;
e) bringing forward research on potential new taxes to benefit businesses;
f) delivering 150,000 new apprenticeships over the next Senedd term; and
g) creating and fully funding a local business kickstarter scheme to support start-ups.
Gwelliant 5—Heledd Fychan
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
Yn galw ar Lywodraeth y DU sy'n dod i mewn i weithredu i sicrhau dyfodol economaidd Cymru drwy:
a) ceisio sicrhau bod y DU yn ailymuno â marchnad sengl ac undeb tollau'r UE, a hynny ar frys;
b) cael gwared ar fformiwla Barnett, a chyflwyno setliad cyllido teg newydd i Gymru sy'n adlewyrchu anghenion Cymru yn gywir; a
c) sicrhau bod cyfran deg o gyllid allforio'r DU yn cael ei ddarparu i Gymru, a bod cyllid i Gymru a gollwyd o ganlyniad i Brexit yn cael ei adfer.
Amendment 5—Heledd Fychan
Add as new point at end of motion:
Calls on the incoming UK Government to take action to secure Wales’s economic future by:
a) seeking the UK's readmittance to the EU's single market and customs union, with urgency;
b) scrapping the Barnett formula, and delivering a new fair funding settlement for Wales that accurately reflects Wales's needs; and
c) ensuring that a fair proportion of UK export finance is delivered to Wales, and that funding to Wales lost as a result of Brexit is restored.
Cynigiwyd gwelliannau 2, 3, 4 a 5.
Amendments 2, 3, 4 and 5 moved.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Whatever was left of the Tories' self-proclaimed reputation on economic competence lies in tatters after 14 years of austerity that's widened societal inequalities, after a hard Brexit that's contracted trade in goods by over 13 per cent, and, of course, after the catastrophic Truss mini-budget that sent mortgage rates soaring and wiped £30 billion from the public purse.
And here in Wales we've borne the brunt of that recklessness. We've been denied the £4 billion that is rightly owed to us from HS2, while the so-called levelling-up agenda has short-changed us to the tune of £1.3 billion. Even the achievements the Conservatives are crowing about in this motion collapse under scrutiny. I mean, yes, inflation has come down from its eye-watering peak, but it's difficult to see what, if any, credit the UK Government can claim, given that managing inflation is the responsibility of the Bank of England. And whilst inflation comes down, prices don't follow. [Interruption.] And most damningly of all—no, I won't be taking an intervention—and most damningly of all, the most recent UK Parliament will hold the distinction of being the first in modern history to have overseen a fall in household disposable income and living standards. I mean, the Tories have created a wasteland of the economy, and they have the gall to call it prosperity. What an insult to the millions of people who have struggled under their watch.
But what are we seeing from the Labour Party? You know, a party that's terrified of its own shadow, that's more interested in purging the left rather than presenting a progressive vision for economic renewal. It also appears that the Welsh branch has borrowed from the Tory playbook when it comes to taking voters for a ride. Their election pledges for Wales include a commitment to deliver economic stability and growth. That conveniently overlooks the fact that the economic development has been the responsibility of the Welsh Labour Government since 1999, during which time Wales has consistently ranked amongst the worst performing of the UK nations and regions for GVA. And Wales has the only economy in the UK that remains smaller than its pre-pandemic level, with GDP per capita also predicted to be £1,100 lower in 2024, compared to pre-pandemic levels.
Now, Dirprwy Lywydd, fixing our broken economic system won't be easy and it will be complex, but in Plaid Cymru, we believe this process must be guided by the fundamental principle of fairness. It means rejoining the EU single market to enable our domestic businesses to flourish on the international stage. It means demanding, for our exporters, a far higher share of UK export finance than the 1 per cent they receive. Most importantly of all, it means replacing the outdated Barnett formula with a funding model that appropriately caters for our societal needs. And in this sense of fairness, it also needs, then, to be married, in turn, with proactive ambition on the part of the Welsh Government. This means setting and sticking to tangible targets to narrow the productivity gap between Wales and the rest of the UK. It means reforming the blunt policy instrument that is non-domestic rates. It means providing improved succession planning to retain the benefits of entrepreneurialism here in Wales. And it means also a mission-led approach to economic development.
Dirprwy Lywydd, it is abundantly clear in this election that neither the Tories nor Labour have the slightest interest in leading an adult conversation about the state of our economy. Well, Plaid Cymru will never shy away from presenting the bold solutions to create a nation that is ambitious, fairer and prosperous.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Mae pa bynnag enw da hunanhonedig a oedd yn weddill gan y Torïaid o ran cymhwysedd economaidd yn deilchion ar ôl 14 mlynedd o gyni sydd wedi ehangu anghydraddoldebau cymdeithasol, ar ôl Brexit caled sydd wedi crebachu masnach mewn nwyddau dros 13 y cant, ac wrth gwrs, ar ôl mini-gyllideb drychinebus Truss, a gododd gyfraddau morgeisi i'r entrychion a dileu £30 biliwn o bwrs y wlad.
Ac yma yng Nghymru, rydym wedi ysgwyddo baich y diofalwch hwnnw. Cawsom ein hamddifadu o'r £4 biliwn sy'n ddyledus i ni o HS2, tra bo'r agenda ffyniant bro honedig wedi ein hamddifadu o bron i £1.3 biliwn. Mae hyd yn oed y cyflawniadau y mae'r Ceidwadwyr yn clochdar amdanynt yn y cynnig hwn yn dymchwel wrth graffu arnynt. Hynny yw, do, mae chwyddiant wedi lleihau o'i lefelau uchaf syfrdanol, ond mae'n anodd gweld pa glod, os o gwbl, y gall Llywodraeth y DU ei hawlio am hynny, o ystyried mai Banc Lloegr sy'n gyfrifol am reoli chwyddiant. Ac er bod chwyddiant yn gostwng, nid yw'r prisiau'n dilyn. [Torri ar draws.] Ac yn fwyaf damniol oll—na, nid wyf am dderbyn ymyriad—ac yn fwyaf damniol oll, Senedd fwyaf diweddar y DU fydd â'r anrhydedd o fod y gyntaf mewn hanes modern i fod wedi llywodraethu dros gwymp mewn incwm gwario aelwydydd a safonau byw. Mae'r Torïaid wedi creu anialwch o'r economi, ac mae ganddynt yr hyfdra i'w alw'n ffyniant. Am sarhad ar y miliynau o bobl sydd wedi'i chael hi mor anodd oddi tanynt.
Ond beth a welwn gan y Blaid Lafur? Plaid sy'n ofni ei chysgod ei hun, sydd â mwy o ddiddordeb mewn chwynnu'r chwith na chyflwyno gweledigaeth flaengar ar gyfer adnewyddu'r economi. Ymddengys hefyd fod cangen Cymru yn efelychu'r Torïaid o ran camarwain pleidleiswyr. Mae eu haddewidion etholiadol ar gyfer Cymru yn cynnwys ymrwymiad i sicrhau sefydlogrwydd a thwf economaidd. Mae hynny, yn gyfleus ddigon, yn anwybyddu'r ffaith bod datblygu economaidd wedi bod yn gyfrifoldeb i Lywodraeth Lafur Cymru ers 1999, ac yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw, mae Cymru wedi bod yn gyson ymhlith y gwledydd a’r rhanbarthau sy’n perfformio waethaf yn y DU o ran gwerth ychwanegol gros. A Chymru sydd â’r unig economi yn y DU sy’n parhau i fod yn llai na’i lefel cyn y pandemig, a rhagwelir y bydd cynnyrch domestig gros y pen £1,100 yn is yn 2024 hefyd, o gymharu â'r lefelau cyn y pandemig.
Nawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ni fydd yn hawdd trwsio ein system economaidd doredig, ac fe fydd yn gymhleth, ond ym Mhlaid Cymru, credwn fod yn rhaid i'r broses gael ei llywio gan egwyddor sylfaenol tegwch. Mae’n golygu ailymuno â marchnad sengl yr UE i alluogi ein busnesau domestig i ffynnu ar y llwyfan rhyngwladol. Mae’n golygu mynnu cyfran uwch o lawer i'n hallforwyr o gyllid allforio’r DU na’r 1 y cant a gânt. Yn bwysicaf oll, mae’n golygu cael gwared ar fformiwla Barnett, sydd wedi dyddio, a defnyddio model ariannu sy’n darparu’n briodol ar gyfer ein hanghenion cymdeithasol. Ac mewn synnwyr o degwch o'r fath, rhaid i hynny hefyd gyd-fynd yn ei dro ag uchelgais rhagweithiol ar ran Llywodraeth Cymru. Mae hyn yn golygu gosod a chadw at dargedau diriaethol i gau’r bwlch cynhyrchiant rhwng Cymru a gweddill y DU. Mae'n golygu diwygio erfyn polisi di-awch yr ardrethi annomestig. Mae’n golygu darparu gwell cynllunio ar gyfer olyniaeth er mwyn cadw manteision entrepreneuriaeth yma yng Nghymru. Ac mae hefyd yn golygu dull datblygu economaidd a arweinir gan genhadaeth.
Ddirprwy Lywydd, mae'n gwbl amlwg yn yr etholiad hwn nad oes gan y Torïaid na Llafur ronyn o ddiddordeb mewn arwain sgwrs aeddfed ynglŷn â chyflwr ein heconomi. Wel, ni fydd Plaid Cymru byth yn cilio rhag cyflwyno’r atebion beiddgar i greu cenedl sy’n uchelgeisiol, yn decach ac yn llewyrchus.
Devolution was supposed to reinvigorate the economy and liberate the life chances of people in Wales. However, although Wales can be an agile nation with a thriving high-wage economy, its entrepreneurial spirit has been kept on a leash, and this has sadly not been the case.
A quarter of a century of a Labour Welsh Government has left our economy underperforming and the people of Wales losing out as a result. Rather than succumbing to the siren calls from Labour and Plaid Cymru to take actions that would have boosted inflation and generated bigger future cuts, making everyone worse off, the UK Conservative Government has taken the action necessary to cut inflation from over 11 per cent to near 2 per cent above the interest rates independently set by the Bank of England, with real wages growing for the eleventh month in a row, nearly 4 million more people in work, and youth unemployment down 370,000 since 2010, and economic inactivity lower than at any point under the last UK Labour Government. However, the deadweight of Labour Welsh Government has left Wales the lowest employment rate, lowest pay packets, lowest total GDP output per head, and highest economic inactivity rates in the UK—this despite Labour Welsh Government having received billions in temporary funding intended to close the prosperity gap both within Wales and between Wales and the rest of the UK.
In claiming that they've been short-changed since, the poor darlings struggle to understand that Wales and the Welsh Labour Government are not the same thing. They would, of course, be correct had Wales not received over £2.5 billion of UK levelling-up funding via a number of different schemes aimed at spreading prosperity and giving communities more of a say in how the money is spent, including over £440 million through three rounds of levelling-up funding and around £585 million in UK shared prosperity funding. They would also be correct had the UK Government not invested £2 billion for Network Rail and £340 million for enhancements in Welsh rail from 2019 to 2024, had Network Rail not published its £5.2 billion five-year plan for the railway in Wales and western that sees a £1.9 billion investment in the Wales and borders route, and had the UK Government not also announced plans for rail upgrades in Wales, including £1 billion into electrification of the north Wales main line and £700,000 for Transport for Wales to explore upgrades for Shotton and Chester stations, and increase north Wales main line capacity.
In order to deflect attention from their own gross failings, they present austerity as a policy chosen by the UK Conservative Government, although Blair and Brown were the architects of austerity. When Gordon Brown opened US investment bank Lehman Brothers's London headquarters in 2004, he told them:
'I would like to pay tribute to the contribution you and your company make to the prosperity of Britain.'
On 15 September 2008 Lehman Brothers went bust: the moment when global financial stress turned into a full-blown international emergency.
Years before, the IMF said that the UK banking system was more exposed to sub-prime debt than anywhere else in the world.
The National Audit Office reported that Mr Brown's Treasury was warned three years before Northern Rock nearly went bust that it needed to set up emergency plans to handle a banking crisis, but did nothing about it. Following the crash, the financial services authority reported that there had been instead sustained political emphasis by the Labour Government on the need for them to be light-touch in their regulatory approach. Well, the people paid the price. By 2010 the UK budget deficit was the worst in the G20, behind only Ireland and Greece in the EU.
If you have a big deficit, someone owns you and sets the terms, and would have imposed greater cuts had we followed the economic policies advocated by Labour and Plaid Cymru, as happened in Ireland and Greece, and as happened when the UK Labour Government was forced to borrow from the IMF in 1976. I'm old enough to remember that; my father lost his job a couple of years later. They seek to deflect blame onto Liz Truss's temporary tenure, dodging the reality that the pound, the cost of borrowing and markets rebounded as soon as Rishi Sunak and Jeremy Hunt restored stability. Only a very silly-billy would claim that the current cost-of-living crisis was made in Westminster—as they do—and 33 European countries, the euro area—
Roedd datganoli i fod i adfywio'r economi a rhyddhau cyfleoedd bywyd pobl Cymru. Fodd bynnag, er y gall Cymru fod yn genedl ystwyth gydag economi ffyniannus a chyflogau uchel, mae ei hysbryd entrepreneuraidd wedi’i gadw ar dennyn, ac yn anffodus, nid yw hyn wedi digwydd.
Mae chwarter canrif o Lywodraeth Lafur Cymru wedi gadael ein heconomi yn tangyflawni a phobl Cymru ar eu colled o ganlyniad. Yn hytrach nag ildio i seirenau Llafur a Phlaid Cymru i gymryd camau a fyddai wedi hybu chwyddiant ac wedi cynhyrchu toriadau mwy yn y dyfodol, gan wneud pawb yn waeth eu byd, mae Llywodraeth Geidwadol y DU wedi cymryd y camau angenrheidiol i dorri chwyddiant o dros 11 y cant i bron i 2 y cant uwchlaw’r cyfraddau llog a osodwyd yn annibynnol gan Fanc Lloegr, gyda chyflogau real yn tyfu am yr unfed mis ar ddeg yn olynol, bron i 4 miliwn yn fwy o bobl mewn gwaith, a diweithdra ymhlith pobl ifanc i lawr 370,000 ers 2010, ac anweithgarwch economaidd yn is nag ar unrhyw adeg o dan Lywodraeth Lafur ddiwethaf y DU. Fodd bynnag, mae pwysau marw Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru wedi gadael Cymru â’r gyfradd gyflogaeth isaf, y pecynnau cyflog isaf, y cyfanswm allbwn isaf y pen o gynnyrch domestig gros, a’r cyfraddau anweithgarwch economaidd uchaf yn y DU—er bod Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru wedi cael biliynau mewn cyllid dros dro gyda'r bwriad o gau'r bwlch ffyniant yng Nghymru a rhwng Cymru a gweddill y DU.
Wrth honni nad ydynt wedi cael digon o arian ers hynny, mae'r creaduriaid druan yn ei chael hi'n anodd deall nad yw Cymru a Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru yr un peth. Byddent yn gywir, wrth gwrs, pe na bai Cymru wedi cael dros £2.5 biliwn o gyllid ffyniant bro'r DU drwy nifer o wahanol gynlluniau gyda’r nod o ledaenu ffyniant a rhoi mwy o lais i gymunedau ynglŷn â sut y caiff yr arian ei wario, gan gynnwys dros £440 miliwn drwy dri chylch o gyllid ffyniant bro ac oddeutu £585 miliwn o gyllid ffyniant cyffredin y DU. Byddent hefyd yn gywir pe na bai Llywodraeth y DU wedi buddsoddi £2 biliwn yn Network Rail a £340 miliwn ar gyfer gwelliannau i reilffyrdd Cymru rhwng 2019 a 2024, pe na bai Network Rail wedi cyhoeddi ei gynllun pum mlynedd gwerth £5.2 biliwn ar gyfer rheilffyrdd rhanbarth Cymru a'r gorllewin, sy’n cynnwys buddsoddiad o £1.9 biliwn yn llwybr Cymru a’r gororau, a phe na bai Llywodraeth y DU wedi cyhoeddi cynlluniau i uwchraddio'r rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys £1 biliwn i drydaneiddio prif linell reilffordd gogledd Cymru a £700,000 i Trafnidiaeth Cymru wneud gwaith archwilio ar gyfer uwchraddio gorsafoedd Shotton a Chaer, a chynyddu capasiti prif linell reilffordd gogledd Cymru.
Er mwyn tynnu sylw oddi wrth eu methiannau dybryd eu hunain, maent yn sôn am gyni fel polisi a ddewiswyd gan Lywodraeth Geidwadol y DU, er mai Blair a Brown oedd penseiri cyni. Pan agorodd Gordon Brown bencadlys banc buddsoddi Lehman Brothers yn Llundain yn 2004, dywedodd wrthynt:
'Hoffwn dalu teyrnged i'ch cyfraniad chi a'ch cwmni i ffyniant Prydain.'
Ar 15 Medi 2008, aeth banc Lehman Brothers i'r wal: y foment pan drodd straen ariannol byd-eang yn argyfwng rhyngwladol llwyr.
Flynyddoedd yn gynt, roedd y Gronfa Ariannol Ryngwladol wedi dweud bod system fancio’r DU yn fwy agored i ddyled eilaidd nag unrhyw le arall yn y byd.
Dywedodd y Swyddfa Archwilio Genedlaethol fod Trysorlys Mr Brown wedi cael ei rybuddio dair blynedd cyn y bu bron i Northern Rock fynd i'r wal fod angen sefydlu cynlluniau brys i ymdrin ag argyfwng bancio, ond ni wnaeth unrhyw beth yn ei gylch. Yn dilyn y cwymp ariannol, adroddodd yr awdurdod gwasanaethau ariannol fod y Llywodraeth Lafur wedi rhoi pwyslais gwleidyddol parhaus yn lle hynny ar yr angen iddynt ddefnyddio dull ysgafn o reoleiddio. Wel, y bobl a dalodd y pris. Erbyn 2010, diffyg cyllideb y DU oedd y gwaethaf yn y G20, y tu ôl i Iwerddon a Gwlad Groeg yn unig yn yr UE.
Os oes gennych ddiffyg mawr, mae rhywun yn berchen arnoch ac yn gosod y telerau, a byddent wedi gorfodi mwy o doriadau pe baem wedi dilyn y polisïau economaidd a hyrwyddid gan Lafur a Phlaid Cymru, fel a ddigwyddodd yn Iwerddon a Gwlad Groeg, ac fel a ddigwyddodd pan orfodwyd Llywodraeth Lafur y DU i fenthyg gan y Gronfa Ariannol Ryngwladol ym 1976. Rwy'n ddigon hen i gofio hynny; collodd fy nhad ei swydd ychydig flynyddoedd yn ddiweddarach. Maent yn ceisio taflu'r bai ar gyfnod byr Liz Truss wrth y llyw, gan osgoi'r realiti fod y bunt, cost benthyca a'r marchnadoedd wedi gwella cyn gynted ag y gwnaeth Rishi Sunak a Jeremy Hunt adfer sefydlogrwydd. Dim ond rhywun hurt iawn a fyddai’n honni—fel y gwnânt hwy—fod yr argyfwng costau byw presennol wedi’i greu yn San Steffan, ac mae gan 33 o wledydd Ewropeaidd, ardal yr ewro—
Mark, you will need to conclude, please.
Mark, mae angen ichi ddirwyn i ben, os gwelwch yn dda.
—and 17 G20 countries currently have higher inflation rates than the UK in consequence of the global cost-of-living crisis. I conclude, there is a hope for the future, provided that a UK Labour Government is not elected to wreck the economy once again.
—ac 17 o wledydd y G20 gyfraddau chwyddiant uwch na'r DU ar hyn o bryd yn sgil yr argyfwng costau byw byd-eang. I gloi, mae gobaith ar gyfer y dyfodol, ar yr amod na chaiff Llywodraeth Lafur y DU ei hethol i ddinistrio'r economi unwaith eto.
It is actually time to end the chaos. The United Kingdom's economy has been trapped by the Tories. Fourteen long years of austerity, presided over by five Tory Prime Ministers and seven Tory Chancellors. But the one thing they all have in common is that they've all seen the majority become worse off. That's a fact. According to the Office for National Statistics, the UK failed to grow at all in April, and we are at the bottom of G8 for growth. That is a fact. Today we learn from a political interview on ITV, the one that Rishi Sunak abandoned D-day events for, that the Prime Minister, alone worth £651 million, does feel the financial pain of ordinary families because, although he has never used a cash machine, he did once go without Sky TV as a child, and that is beyond satire. And as Victorian diseases associated with poverty—rickets and malnutrition—are now appallingly presenting back in our surgeries and our hospitals—. What a legacy—this sad, Tory Prime Minister is doing all he can to make his predecessor, Liz Truss, look like politically competent.
So, I want to look at some more facts. Wages have risen faster in Wales than England since 2011. The Welsh Government has invested more than £143 million. And despite these measures, now in 2024, the Welsh Government has a budget that is £3 billion lower than if it had grown in line with GDP since 2010. Indeed, Wales has almost £1.3 billion less funding in real terms due to the UK Government's failure to honour its commitments and replace EU funds in full. It has not done that, and it has since broken the trust of its citizenry.
With the further economic harm caused by hard Brexit and Liz Truss's so-called mini-budget, it is a sad fact that Wales just does not receive fair funding from Westminster. The Barnett formula does not deliver a funding settlement that reflects Wales’s economic, financial or social needs.
Conservative UK Governments have conspicuously—
Mae'n bryd dod â'r anhrefn i ben. Mae economi’r Deyrnas Unedig wedi cael ei chaethiwo gan y Torïaid. Pedair blynedd ar ddeg hir o gyni, dan lywyddiaeth pum Prif Weinidog Torïaidd a saith Canghellor Torïaidd. Ond yr un peth sydd ganddynt oll yn gyffredin yw bod y mwyafrif wedi dod yn waeth eu byd oddi tanynt. Mae hynny'n ffaith. Yn ôl y Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol, methodd y DU dyfu o gwbl ym mis Ebrill, ac rydym ar waelod tabl y G8 o ran twf. Mae hynny'n ffaith. Heddiw, rydym yn dysgu o gyfweliad gwleidyddol ar ITV, yr un y gadawodd Rishi Sunak ddigwyddiadau D-day ar ei gyfer, fod Prif Weinidog y DU, sy'n werth £651 miliwn ei hun, yn teimlo poen ariannol teuluoedd cyffredin oherwydd, er nad yw erioed wedi defnyddio peiriant twll yn y wal, fe aeth heb deledu Sky unwaith pan oedd yn blentyn, ac mae hynny y tu hwnt i ddychan. Ac wrth i glefydau Fictoraidd erchyll sy'n gysylltiedig â thlodi—y llechau a chamfaethiad—ddechrau ymddangos unwaith eto yn ein meddygfeydd a'n hysbytai—. Am waddol—mae'r Prif Weinidog Torïaidd tila hwn yn gwneud popeth yn ei allu i wneud i'w ragflaenydd, Liz Truss, edrych fel pe bai'n wleidyddol gymwys.
Felly, rwyf am edrych ar ragor o ffeithiau. Mae cyflogau wedi codi'n gyflymach yng Nghymru nag yn Lloegr ers 2011. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi buddsoddi mwy na £143 miliwn. Ac er y mesurau hyn, nawr yn 2024, mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru gyllideb sydd £3 biliwn yn is na phe bai wedi tyfu yn unol â chynnyrch domestig gros ers 2010. Yn wir, mae gan Gymru bron i £1.3 biliwn yn llai o gyllid mewn termau real oherwydd methiant Llywodraeth y DU i gadw at ei hymrwymiadau a darparu'r cyllid llawn yn lle arian yr UE. Nid yw wedi gwneud hynny, ac ers hynny, mae wedi chwalu ymddiriedaeth ei dinasyddion.
Gyda’r niwed economaidd pellach a achosir gan Brexit caled a mini-gyllideb, fe y'i gelwir, Liz Truss, mae’n ffaith drist nad yw Cymru'n cael cyllid teg gan San Steffan. Nid yw fformiwla Barnett yn darparu setliad ariannu sy’n adlewyrchu anghenion economaidd, ariannol neu gymdeithasol Cymru.
Mae Llywodraethau Ceidwadol y DU wedi—
Rhianon, will you take an intervention?
Rhianon, a wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?
I'm sorry, I've got just too much to go through, and I'm sure I'll answer any intervention in what I've got to say.
The UK Government's purposeful destruction of the UK welfare net, which should address the needs of the most vulnerable, and which ended the cruel reign of the punitive workhouse—
Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, mae gennyf ormod i fynd drwyddo, ac rwy'n siŵr y byddaf yn ateb unrhyw ymyriad yn yr hyn sydd gennyf i'w ddweud.
Mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi mynd ati'n fwriadol i ddinistrio rhwyd les y DU, a ddylai fod yno i ofalu am anghenion y rhai mwyaf agored i niwed, ac a roddodd derfyn ar deyrnasiad creulon y tloty cosbol—
Rhianon, excuse me a second. Members in the Chamber need to be quiet so I can hear and others can hear the contribution from the Member. Thank you. Rhianon, off you go.
Rhianon, esgusodwch fi am eiliad. Mae angen i'r Aelodau yn y Siambr fod yn dawel er mwyn i mi ac eraill allu clywed y cyfraniad gan yr Aelod. Diolch. Rhianon, parhewch.
Thank you. The cruel reign of the punitive workhouse model was eroded and lost and dumped because of this social network welfare net, and the destruction of that welfare net has delivered us today high rates of poverty, particularly of child poverty in Wales, as a result of the direct Conservative dismantling of such. These scars and the impacts of grinding poverty will be with us all for the foreseeable future, and I remain embarrassed and appalled that the UN rapporteur for the disabled and children deeply criticised this UK Government on its regressive choices, which severely deepened inequality across the UK, and that is a fact. Food price levels are quantitively higher than just three years ago, and still rising, as are household bills for utilities and rent and mortgages and debt, VAT on children's clothes and sanitary products, with real wages barely above what they were in 2010. And, indeed, analysis by the Resolution Foundation evidences that real household disposable income per head in the UK is now below even the pre-pandemic level by the end of last year. And this has led to the Trussell Trust being forced to provide record numbers of food parcels and Citizens Advice providing record numbers of people with debt advice. We are the UK's food-bank-reliant nation as the UK Government reneges on its No. 1 function, and that is to protect its people. Households and businesses still face the highest interest rates for over 16 years, hampering badly needed business investment and placing more pressure on household finances.
So, sadly, to conclude, I have to inform Darren Millar that even the Tory defence Secretary, Grant Shapps, has given up the pretence. Today he warned voters against voting for a supermajority. Indeed, Dirprwy Lywydd, it is time to end this chaos. It is time to start rebuilding, building the British economy alongside those UK partners who, hand in hand and in step with Welsh Government, will ensure that we are stronger together as a nation, so that we can build together, as a United Kingdom, a better, a stronger and a greener future for all of the people of Wales. Diolch, deputy Llywydd.
Diolch. Cafodd teyrnasiad creulon y model tloty cosbol ei erydu a’i golli a’i ddileu oherwydd y rhwyd les gymdeithasol hon, ac mae dinistrio’r rhwyd les honno wedi sicrhau cyfraddau uchel o dlodi i ni heddiw, yn enwedig tlodi plant yng Nghymru, wrth i'r Ceidwadwyr fynd ati'n uniongyrchol i'w datgymalu. Bydd y creithiau hyn ac effeithiau tlodi difrifol yn aros gyda phob un ohonom am y dyfodol rhagweladwy, ac rwy’n dal i deimlo cywilydd ac yn arswydo bod rapporteur y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar gyfer pobl anabl a phlant wedi beirniadu Llywodraeth y DU yn hallt ar ei dewisiadau anflaengar, sydd wedi dyfnhau anghydraddoldeb yn ddifrifol ledled y DU, ac mae hynny'n ffaith. Mae lefelau prisiau bwyd yn feintiol uwch na thair blynedd yn ôl yn unig, ac yn dal i godi, yn yr un modd â biliau’r cartref ar gyfer cyfleustodau a rhent a morgeisi a dyled, TAW ar ddillad plant a nwyddau mislif, gyda chyflogau gwirioneddol prin yn uwch na'r hyn oeddent yn 2010. Ac yn wir, mae dadansoddiad gan y Resolution Foundation yn dangos bod incwm gwario gwirioneddol aelwydydd y pen yn y DU bellach yn is na hyd yn oed lefelau cyn y pandemig erbyn diwedd y llynedd. Ac mae hyn wedi arwain at orfodi Ymddiriedolaeth Trussell i ddarparu'r nifer uchaf erioed o barseli bwyd a Chyngor ar Bopeth i ddarparu cyngor ar ddyledion i'r niferoedd uchaf erioed o bobl. Ni yw'r genedl sy’n dibynnu ar fanciau bwyd y DU wrth i Lywodraeth y DU ymwrthod â’i phrif swyddogaeth, sef diogelu ei phobl. Mae aelwydydd a busnesau'n dal i wynebu’r cyfraddau llog uchaf ers dros 16 mlynedd, gan rwystro buddsoddiad busnes sydd ei angen yn daer a rhoi mwy o bwysau ar gyllid aelwydydd.
Felly, yn anffodus, i gloi, mae’n rhaid imi ddweud wrth Darren Millar fod hyd yn oed Ysgrifennydd amddiffyn y Torïaid, Grant Shapps, wedi rhoi’r gorau i’r esgus. Heddiw, fe rybuddiodd y pleidleiswyr rhag pleidleisio dros uwchfwyafrif. Yn wir, Ddirprwy Lywydd, mae'n bryd dod â'r anhrefn i ben. Mae’n bryd dechrau ailadeiladu, gan adeiladu economi Prydain ochr yn ochr â’r partneriaid yn y DU a fydd, law yn llaw ac yn unol â Llywodraeth Cymru, yn sicrhau ein bod yn gryfach gyda’n gilydd fel cenedl, fel y gallwn gyda’n gilydd, fel Teyrnas Unedig, adeiladu dyfodol gwell, cryfach a gwyrddach i holl bobl Cymru. Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd.
Janet Finch-Saunders. Oh, she's gone offline. We'll move on. Carolyn Thomas.
Janet Finch-Saunders. O, mae hi wedi mynd all-lein. Symudwn ymlaen. Carolyn Thomas.
Diolch. In the last 14 years, we've seen the Tory UK Government make vicious real-terms cuts to the building blocks of economic growth, dismantling public services—health, social care, education, housing— wages and local authority budgets. I was horrified to see Rishi Sunak say that he plans to fund a drop in tax by further cuts to public services. The UK simply cannot cope with further austerity.
We cannot see further cuts to welfare either. These are being used as top-ups for working people. The move from tax credits to universal credit has been devastating for many. We've seen the Tories starve Wales of the funding it needs, whether through successive austerity budgets or through the deliberate holding back of billions of pounds worth of HS2 money, post-EU funding, and money found down the back of sofas called 'found within existing budgets', with lack of transparency for our finance Minister.
Wales were net beneficiaries of European funding and the same level of funding has not been realised by the UK Government. The funding for national programmes such as apprenticeships, university research programmes, public infrastructure such as highways, community transport, broadband and innovation, has been lost and not replaced. We have seen the Government conspiring to take money out of people's pockets through the Liz Truss mortgage and inflation bombshell, and under the Conservatives the rich have just got richer and the poorer, poorer. For the first time since the second world war, life expectancy for women has fallen, and 99 per cent of the population will be poorer than the generation that went before them.
Market capitalism has seen massive wealth and great deprivation. We have seen this with the sell-off of the Royal Mail, undervaluing its assets when floating shares, siphoning off the profitable arm that supported the universal one-price stamp, the social value part of the once proud 500-year-old Royal Mail. Now, it will be sold off to a billionaire who will want to asset strip it further and—[Interruption.]—employ agency staff—
Diolch. Yn y 14 mlynedd diwethaf, rydym wedi gweld Llywodraeth Dorïaidd y DU yn gwneud toriadau milain mewn termau real i flociau adeiladu twf economaidd, gan ddatgymalu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus—iechyd, gofal cymdeithasol, addysg, tai—cyflogau a chyllidebau awdurdodau lleol. Arswydais wrth weld Rishi Sunak yn dweud ei fod yn bwriadu ariannu gostyngiad mewn treth drwy doriadau pellach i wasanaethau cyhoeddus. Ni all y DU ymdopi â rhagor o gyni.
Ni allwn weld rhagor o doriadau i les ychwaith. Mae'r rhain yn cael eu defnyddio fel ychwanegiadau i bobl sy'n gweithio. Mae'r newid o gredydau treth i gredyd cynhwysol wedi bod yn ddinistriol i lawer. Rydym wedi gweld y Torïaid yn newynu Cymru o’r cyllid sydd ei angen arni, boed hynny drwy gyllidebau cyni olynol neu drwy fynd ati'n fwriadol i warafun gwerth biliynau o bunnoedd o arian HS2, cyllid ôl-UE, ac arian a ddarganfuwyd i lawr cefnau soffas o’r enw ‘arian a ddarganfuwyd o fewn cyllidebau presennol’, gyda diffyg tryloywder i’n Gweinidog cyllid.
Roedd Cymru yn fuddiolwyr net o gyllid Ewropeaidd ac nid yw’r un lefel o gyllid wedi’i darparu gan Lywodraeth y DU. Mae’r cyllid ar gyfer rhaglenni cenedlaethol megis prentisiaethau, rhaglenni ymchwil prifysgolion, seilwaith cyhoeddus megis priffyrdd, trafnidiaeth gymunedol, band eang ac arloesedd, wedi’i golli ac nid oes cyllid wedi'i ddarparu yn ei le. Rydym wedi gweld y Llywodraeth yn cynllwynio i fynd ag arian o bocedi pobl drwy ffrwydrad morgeisi a chwyddiant Liz Truss, ac o dan y Ceidwadwyr, mae’r cyfoethogion wedi mynd yn gyfoethocach a’r tlodion yn dlotach. Am y tro cyntaf ers yr ail ryfel byd, mae disgwyliad oes i fenywod wedi gostwng, a bydd 99 y cant o’r boblogaeth yn dlotach na’r genhedlaeth o’u blaenau.
Mae cyfalafiaeth y farchnad wedi arwain at gyfoeth enfawr ac amddifadedd enfawr. Rydym wedi gweld hyn gyda gwerthu'r Post Brenhinol, gan danbrisio ei asedau wrth gyhoeddi ei gyfranddaliadau, a seiffno'r fraich broffidiol a oedd yn cefnogi’r stamp un pris cyffredinol, sef rhan gwerth cymdeithasol falch, ar un adeg, y Post Brenhinol 500 mlwydd oed. Nawr, bydd yn cael ei werthu i biliwnydd a fydd am werthu rhagor o'i asedau a—[Torri ar draws.]—cyflogi staff asiantaeth—
The Member will please—. The Member will refrain from shouting, please.
A wnaiff yr Aelod—. A wnaiff yr Aelod ymatal rhag gweiddi, os gwelwch yn dda?
—in a race to the bottom. This is a good example of how market capitalism doesn't work. It was once a good and fair job, once one to be proud of, and a community asset. Now, posties have to walk 13 miles a day and are still told to leave mail behind. People are exhausted as the Tories have pushed productivity and efficiency to the limit—having to work 12-hour shifts, cuts to welfare, cuts to public finance support. How can you say that the economy is growing and pretend that all is fine because inflation is coming down when we have people in in-work poverty and thousands reliant on food banks? It's simply not right, and it's going to take a lot to change that.
You're claiming responsibility for the free port in Anglesey. Well, that was negotiated jointly with the Welsh Government, who quite rightly insisted on the same amount of funding that free ports in England were receiving, along with ensuring that environmental and employment standards were achieved. That wouldn't have happened without Welsh Government intervention.
There have been announcements of an investment zone for Wrexham and Flintshire, but no development funding. The investment zone was supposed to be for advanced manufacturing, creative industries and digital. I'm concerned that these have been dropped by the UK Government, and it seems to be enforced by this motion, by just saying that they are advanced manufacturing investment zones. We need the creative industries and digital included.
One billion pounds for electrification of the north Wales line was also just another announcement before the election, with no development funding for Network Rail to deliver this. The Conservatives can try and rewrite history all they want; residents across Wales have felt the full blow of the outgoing Government's economic incompetence directly in their pockets. The UK and Wales are crying out for change, and I look forward to a UK Labour Government delivering that with Welsh Government. Thank you.
—mewn ras i'r gwaelod. Dyma enghraifft dda o sut nad yw cyfalafiaeth y farchnad yn gweithio. Roedd unwaith yn swydd dda, yn swydd i ymfalchïo ynddi, ac yn ased cymunedol. Nawr, mae'n rhaid i weithwyr post gerdded 13 milltir y dydd a dywedir wrthynt o hyd am adael post ar ôl. Mae pobl wedi blino’n lân gan fod y Torïaid wedi gwthio cynhyrchiant ac effeithlonrwydd i’r eithaf—gorfod gweithio shifftiau 12 awr, toriadau i les, toriadau i gymorth cyllid cyhoeddus. Sut y gallwch ddweud bod yr economi'n tyfu ac esgus bod popeth yn iawn am fod chwyddiant yn gostwng pan fo gennym bobl mewn tlodi mewn gwaith a miloedd yn dibynnu ar fanciau bwyd? Nid yw'n iawn, ac mae'n mynd i gymryd llawer i newid hynny.
Rydych chi'n hawlio cyfrifoldeb am y porthladd rhydd yn Ynys Môn. Wel, negodwyd hynny ar y cyd â Llywodraeth Cymru, a fynnodd, yn gwbl briodol, yr un faint o gyllid ag yr oedd porthladdoedd rhydd yn Lloegr yn ei gael, ynghyd â sicrwydd fod safonau amgylcheddol a chyflogaeth yn cael eu cyflawni. Ni fyddai hynny wedi digwydd heb ymyrraeth Llywodraeth Cymru.
Bu cyhoeddiadau am barth buddsoddi ar gyfer Wrecsam a sir y Fflint, ond dim cyllid datblygu. Roedd y parth buddsoddi i fod ar gyfer gweithgynhyrchu uwch, diwydiannau creadigol a digidol. Rwy’n pryderu bod y rhain wedi’u gollwng gan Lywodraeth y DU, ac ymddengys bod hynny'n cael ei orfodi gan y cynnig hwn, drwy ddweud eu bod yn barthau buddsoddi ar gyfer gweithgynhyrchu uwch yn unig. Mae arnom angen i'r diwydiannau creadigol a digidol gael eu cynnwys.
Dim ond cyhoeddiad arall cyn yr etholiad oedd yr £1 biliwn ar gyfer trydaneiddio rheilffordd gogledd Cymru, heb unrhyw arian datblygu i Network Rail gyflawni hyn. Gall y Ceidwadwyr geisio ailysgrifennu hanes fel y mynnant; mae trigolion ledled Cymru wedi teimlo ergyd lawn anghymhwysedd economaidd y Llywodraeth yn uniongyrchol yn eu pocedi. Mae’r DU a Chymru yn erfyn am newid, ac rwy'n edrych ymlaen at weld Llywodraeth Lafur y DU yn cyflawni hynny gyda Llywodraeth Cymru. Diolch.
Janet, we'll try again and hope the connection remains stable this time, okay.
Janet, fe wnawn ni geisio eto a gobeithio bod y cysylltiad yn aros yn sefydlog y tro hwn, iawn.
Thank you. Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm not sure myself what happened there.
Well, I've heard some interesting comments and contributions here today, but I have to praise Sam Kurtz and Mark Isherwood for very factually and correctly pointing out just how bad it is for small businesses here—well, all sizes of businesses, really. When I first started as a businesswomen many years ago, under a Conservative UK Government, I was supported, I was able then to prosper going forward, paying tax, opening up other start-up businesses, employing people; they prospered too. And that's how it should be. But, over the last 10 years in particular—. Although Welsh Labour have been guilty for being in power 26 years and not helping business, it is fair to say that, over the last 10 years, I have never known a time—and I speak to so many businesses of all sizes, where they say, 'The Welsh Government do not understand us, they haven't a clue, they don't know what it takes to run a business'—. And when we've seen businesses go under in Wales, and very, very heart-wrenchingly only recently, Mona Dairy—. We've seen other large companies—. And even down to Tata Steel, all that happened when those soundings would come in from the company that, 'We need support', the UK Government stood up and started to support them, but all the Welsh Government did—and the unions—was to try using it as a political weapon. Instead of getting in there quick and trying to retrieve that business, every time a business suffers in Wales, they would just rather jump on a bandwagon than actually help that company.
Now, there is no denying that is because this is a Welsh Labour Government. Shocking figures have shown, over the last year, that we lost over 63 pubs, shutting their doors, more than double the decline in England, and it's estimated that 770 jobs were lost there. Rather than deciding to address that, they just carry on punishing our small businesses. They've taken away the business rates relief. Edwina Hart many years ago told me she would never do away with business rates, but she was quite happy at the time to support the level of support they were giving, and, look, that's even been taken away now from our businesses. And there's been a lot of debate recently and hustings for politicians in this general election. Well, I can tell you now, there will be—and anyone watching this—there will be more taxation from Labour both at UK level and Welsh Government, and, in particular, they will go for our businesses more, because, too often, they see our businesses as a soft option. Sir Keir Starmer's openly touted that his blueprint for a UK Labour Government is Wales. Well, that's a pretty sad indictment if he's actually looking to the Welsh Government as being an example to copy.
Higher taxes, less growth—we know in Wales the employment rate has dived below 70 per cent, down 2.8 per cent on the year, and now over 5 per cent less than the UK; Scotland at 73 per cent. This is indicative of a country with stagnant economic growth. Alongside the lowest employment rate in the UK, Wales has also the lowest median wages, and it's around about £3,000 less. Why should somebody doing the same job in Wales be taking home £3,000 less than they would under a UK English Government?
Of course, economic inactivity has been a constant, but, after 25 years of Welsh Labour, an economic inactivity rate of 28.1 per cent, up 2.7 per cent on the year, compared to England, is deeply concerning. Despite my previous emphasis on the crucial role of small businesses in Wales, especially with tourism employing 12 per cent of our workforce, and contributing approximately, well, more than £2.4 billion in terms of the food chain and everything, Welsh Labour have persisted in their determination to decimate a dynamic part of the Welsh economy. They plan on introducing a tourism tax, which will—. Well, it's already having negative impacts. Reports are telling us now that people have already heard stark notices of tourism tax, and they are already starting to think about going elsewhere. In Aberconwy, tourism and hospitality form a huge part of the economic input, and the Welsh Labour doctrine is to increase the financial burden on individuals and businesses alike. Now, in contrast, the UK Government—
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Nid wyf yn siŵr fy hun beth ddigwyddodd.
Wel, rwyf wedi clywed sylwadau a chyfraniadau diddorol yma heddiw, ond mae'n rhaid imi ganmol Sam Kurtz a Mark Isherwood am nodi'n ffeithiol ac yn gywir pa mor wael yw hi i fusnesau bach yma—wel, busnesau o bob maint, a dweud y gwir. Pan ddechreuais fel menyw fusnes flynyddoedd lawer yn ôl, o dan Lywodraeth Geidwadol y DU, cefais fy nghefnogi, bu modd imi ffynnu wedyn wrth symud ymlaen, gan dalu trethi, agor busnesau newydd eraill, cyflogi pobl; fe wnaethant hwy ffynnu hefyd. A dyna fel y dylai fod. Ond dros y 10 mlynedd diwethaf yn enwedig—. Er bod Llafur Cymru wedi bod yn euog o fod mewn grym am 26 mlynedd a pheidio â helpu busnesau, mae’n deg dweud, dros y 10 mlynedd diwethaf, nad wyf erioed wedi byw mewn cyfnod—ac rwy’n siarad â chymaint o fusnesau o bob maint, lle maent yn dweud, 'Nid yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn ein deall, nid oes ganddynt unrhyw syniad, nid ydynt yn gwybod beth sydd ei angen i redeg busnes'—. A phan welwn fusnesau'n methu yng Nghymru, ac yn dorcalonnus, yn ddiweddar, Mona Dairy—. Rydym wedi gweld cwmnïau mawr eraill—. A hyd yn oed Tata Steel, popeth a ddigwyddodd pan fyddai'r cwmni'n dweud, 'Mae angen cymorth arnom', fe gamodd Llywodraeth y DU i'r adwy a dechrau eu cefnogi, ond y cyfan a wnaeth Llywodraeth Cymru—a'r undebau—oedd ceisio defnyddio'r sefyllfa fel arf gwleidyddol. Yn lle mynd ati'n gyflym i geisio achub y busnes hwnnw, bob tro y mae busnes yn dioddef yng Nghymru, byddai’n well ganddynt neidio ar y drol na helpu’r cwmni hwnnw.
Nawr, ni ellir gwadu mai'r rheswm am hynny yw mai Llywodraeth Lafur sydd gennym yng Nghymru. Mae ffigurau brawychus wedi dangos, dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, ein bod wedi colli dros 63 o dafarndai, yn cau eu drysau, mwy na dwbl y dirywiad yn Lloegr, ac amcangyfrifir bod 770 o swyddi wedi’u colli yno. Yn hytrach na phenderfynu mynd i’r afael â hynny, maent yn parhau i gosbi ein busnesau bach. Maent wedi cael gwared ar ryddhad ardrethi busnes. Dywedodd Edwina Hart flynyddoedd lawer yn ôl wrthyf na fyddai byth yn cael gwared ar ardrethi busnes, ond roedd hi'n eithaf parod ar y pryd i gefnogi lefel y cymorth roeddent yn ei roi, ac edrychwch, mae hyd yn oed hynny wedi'i ddiddymu ar gyfer ein busnesau bellach. Ac mae llawer o ddadleuon wedi bod yn ddiweddar a hustyngau i wleidyddion yn yr etholiad cyffredinol. Wel, gallaf ddweud wrthych nawr, fe fydd—ac i unrhyw un sy'n gwylio hyn—fe fydd mwy o drethiant gan Lafur ar lefel y DU a Llywodraeth Cymru, ac yn fwyaf arbennig, byddant yn mynd am ein busnesau i raddau mwy, oherwydd yn rhy aml, maent yn gweld ein busnesau fel yr opsiwn hawdd. Mae Syr Keir Starmer wedi dweud yn agored mai ei lasbrint ar gyfer Llywodraeth Lafur y DU yw Cymru. Wel, mae honno'n feirniadaeth drist os yw o ddifrif yn edrych ar Lywodraeth Cymru fel enghraifft i'w hefelychu.
Trethi uwch, llai o dwf—gwyddom yng Nghymru fod y gyfradd gyflogaeth wedi plymio o dan 70 y cant, i lawr 2.8 y cant ers y flwyddyn flaenorol, a bellach dros 5 y cant yn llai na'r DU; yr Alban ar 73 y cant. Mae hyn yn arwydd o wlad â thwf economaidd marwaidd. Ynghyd â'r gyfradd gyflogaeth isaf yn y DU, mae gan Gymru hefyd y cyflogau canolrifol isaf, ac maent oddeutu £3,000 yn llai. Pam y dylai rhywun sy’n gwneud yr un swydd yng Nghymru gael £3,000 yn llai nag y byddent o dan Lywodraeth y DU yn Lloegr?
Wrth gwrs, mae anweithgarwch economaidd wedi bod yn elfen gyson, ond ar ôl 25 mlynedd o Lafur Cymru, mae cyfradd anweithgarwch economaidd o 28.1 y cant, i fyny 2.7 y cant ers y flwyddyn flaenorol, o gymharu â Lloegr, yn peri cryn bryder. Er gwaethaf fy mhwyslais blaenorol ar rôl hollbwysig busnesau bach yng Nghymru, yn enwedig gyda thwristiaeth yn cyflogi 12 y cant o’n gweithlu, ac yn cyfrannu oddeutu, wel, mwy na £2.4 biliwn o ran y gadwyn fwyd a phopeth, mae Llafur Cymru wedi parhau i fod yn benderfynol o ddinistrio rhan ddynamig o economi Cymru. Maent yn bwriadu cyflwyno treth dwristiaeth, a fydd—. Wel, mae eisoes yn cael effeithiau negyddol. Dywed adroddiadau wrthym fod pobl eisoes wedi clywed rhybuddion llwm am dreth dwristiaeth, ac maent eisoes yn dechrau meddwl am fynd i rywle arall. Yn Aberconwy, mae twristiaeth a lletygarwch yn rhan enfawr o’r mewnbwn economaidd, ac athrawiaeth Llafur Cymru yw cynyddu’r baich ariannol ar unigolion a busnesau fel ei gilydd. Nawr, mewn cyferbyniad, mae Llywodraeth y DU—
Janet, you need to conclude now, please.
Janet, mae angen ichi ddirwyn i ben, os gwelwch yn dda.
—is using its levers, its powers and its funding to unleash economic growth. We've seen the Wrexham and Flintshire investment zone, Anglesey free port, Wylfa Newydd, prosperity fund, levelling-up funding. I'm afraid, anybody watching this, vote Labour on 4 July and expect more decline in businesses and expect more decline in our economic future. Diolch.
—yn defnyddio ei hysgogiadau, ei phwerau a’i chyllid i ryddhau twf economaidd. Rydym wedi gweld parth buddsoddi Wrecsam a sir y Fflint, porthladd rhydd Ynys Môn, Wylfa Newydd, cronfa ffyniant, cyllid ffyniant bro. I unrhyw un sy'n gwylio, os byddwch yn pleidleisio dros Lafur ar 4 Gorffennaf, mae arnaf ofn y dylech ddisgwyl mwy o ddirywiad mewn busnesau a disgwyl mwy o ddirywiad yn ein dyfodol economaidd. Diolch.
It's a pleasure to take part in this debate this afternoon, and we should be quite frank that the Welsh economy is in a sorry state, unfortunately. And that's not playing down Wales; it's just a reality. Today, after 25 years of Labour Government, Wales lags behind the UK on a whole range of metrics. Achieving growth is difficult with high interest rates, but Wales's economy has shrunk by 1 per cent since 2018, while England's has grown by 2 per cent since then, and Wales's productivity rate still remains lower than in most other regions. We have the highest economic inactivity rate in the UK, the lowest employment rate and the lowest median wages.
We've heard Labour Members reference their favourite scapegoat, Liz Truss, for Wales's struggling economy, but a 2022 mini budget is not to blame for these depressing statistics. Our economy is in this state due to 25 years of Welsh Labour's economic illiteracy, and you only have to look at examples from the last time Labour were in Government in the UK, when Gordon Brown sold our gold off at cut-price rates, and Liam Byrne's letter when Labour left Government in 2010, saying there is no money left, and the issues that Mark Isherwood mentioned about Labour having foresight of the Northern Rock issue as far back as 2005. I remember when that started in January 2008 and people queueing outside banks down the street to try and take their money out because the banks defaulted on the people. That is a sorry state of affairs to be in, when the banks default on the people, because people put trust in banks to act on their best behalf. That was the sorry state under Labour, and we should remember those recent turn of events in terms of deciding who your next Government should be.
Regardless, my constituents are not interested in whataboutery, they're interested in what the Welsh Government are doing to ensure their pay is rising, to ensure they have access to high-quality employment in their area, to ensure that they see businesses in their community thriving. Of course, COVID-19 lockdowns led to a severe global recession, with an unprecedented drop in GDP. But some ships weathered the storm better than others, with slow improvement in growth, productivity and investment, and the UK weathered the storm better than most EU countries—remember Italy, for example. Only seven countries bounced back with regard to the foreign direct investment that is key to growth, and the United Kingdom is one of these, ahead of the United States, Germany, China and Japan.
UK growth has also consistently been higher than Germany's since the pandemic, but, under Mark Drakeford and Vaughan Gething's captaincy in Wales, our economy is still drifting into the doldrums. The wind is taken out of our sails by the poor economic decisions. Gross value per head in Wales currently comes in at under three quarters of the UK average; economic inactivity is 28 per cent, compared to the UK average of 22 per cent; employment is 68.9 per cent, to the UK average of 74.3 per cent. The Welsh economy, like our motorists, is moving at a snail's pace, and these disparities are growing evermore. People in this country deserve better.
The Welsh Government need to set out the economic conditions for our economy to thrive, and levelling up north Wales by investing in infrastructure, like the Welsh Government have done with the south Wales metro, is vital. A PricewaterhouseCoopers report showed that productivity in Wales is buoyed only by Cardiff, with the figures in north Wales being particularly dire. The UK Government has had to pick up the tab, with £2.5 billion of levelling-up funding for Wales, where communities like mine in north Wales have been neglected by the Welsh Government.
This topic could be debated for days, but I'd like to conclude my remarks by repeating my call for the Welsh Government to reinstate business rates relief to 75 per cent for retail, hospitality and leisure, and abolish business rates for small businesses, which would go some way to give a leg up to struggling businesses, reverse the trend of higher comparative unemployment and improve our rates of business survival, which are the third lowest among all the UK nations, so that we can begin to turn this ship around.
I would just add a footnote to my remarks in saying that the biggest issue that we had when we were members of the European Union was, on the issues of foodbanks and sanitary products, that, under EU legislation, we couldn't drop interest rates below 5 per cent, and they are freedoms that we've gained through Brexit, which enabled the United Kingdom to operate within a free economy without the burden of European legislation, which stopped VAT rates being lowered. That was the reason for sanitary products rate relief not materialising pre 2016, and that's the reason why prices have dropped over that time, because we have released ourselves from the economic burden of the European Union in voting for Brexit in 2016, and we must embrace that and make the best of it for Wales. Thank you.
Mae’n bleser cymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon y prynhawn yma, a dylem ddweud yn blwmp ac yn blaen fod economi Cymru mewn cyflwr truenus, yn anffodus. Ac nid lladd ar Gymru yw hynny; dyna'r realiti. Heddiw, ar ôl 25 mlynedd o Lywodraeth Lafur, mae Cymru ar ei hôl hi o gymharu â’r DU ar ystod eang o fetrigau. Mae sicrhau twf yn anodd gyda chyfraddau llog uchel, ond mae economi Cymru wedi crebachu 1 y cant ers 2018, tra bo economi Lloegr wedi tyfu 2 y cant ers hynny, ac mae cyfradd cynhyrchiant Cymru yn dal yn is na'r rhan fwyaf o ranbarthau eraill. Mae gennym y gyfradd anweithgarwch economaidd uchaf yn y DU, y gyfradd gyflogaeth isaf a’r cyflogau canolrifol isaf.
Rydym wedi clywed Aelodau Llafur yn beio eu hoff fwch dihangol, Liz Truss, am y ffaith bod economi Cymru mewn trafferth, ond nid mini-gyllideb 2022 sydd ar fai am yr ystadegau digalon hyn. Mae ein heconomi yn y cyflwr hwn oherwydd 25 mlynedd o anllythrennedd economaidd Llafur Cymru, ac nid oes ond angen ichi edrych ar enghreifftiau o’r tro diwethaf i Lafur fod mewn Llywodraeth yn y DU, pan werthodd Gordon Brown ein haur am bris gostyngol, a llythyr Liam Byrne pan adawodd Llafur y Llywodraeth yn 2010, yn dweud nad oedd arian ar ôl, a’r materion a grybwyllodd Mark Isherwood ynghylch Llafur yn gwybod am broblemau Northern Rock mor bell yn ôl â 2005. Rwy’n cofio pan ddechreuodd hynny ym mis Ionawr 2008 a phobl yn ciwio y tu allan i fanciau i lawr y stryd i geisio tynnu eu harian allan am fod y banciau wedi diffygdalu ar y bobl. Mae honno’n sefyllfa druenus i fod ynddi, pan fo'r banciau’n diffygdalu ar y bobl, am fod pobl yn ymddiried mewn banciau i weithredu er eu budd gorau. Dyna oedd y sefyllfa druenus o dan Lafur, a dylem gofio’r digwyddiadau diweddar hynny wrth benderfynu pwy ddylai eich Llywodraeth nesaf fod.
Serch hynny, nid oes gan fy etholwyr ddiddordeb mewn gwrthgyhuddiadau, yr hyn y maent eisiau ei wybod yw beth mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i sicrhau bod eu cyflogau'n codi, i sicrhau bod ganddynt fynediad at gyflogaeth o ansawdd uchel yn eu hardal, i sicrhau eu bod yn gweld busnesau yn eu cymunedau'n ffynnu. Wrth gwrs, arweiniodd cyfyngiadau symud COVID-19 at ddirwasgiad byd-eang difrifol, gyda gostyngiad digynsail mewn cynnyrch domestig gros. Ond fe wnaeth rhai llongau oroesi’r storm yn well nag eraill, gyda gwelliant araf mewn twf, cynhyrchiant a buddsoddiad, a llwyddodd y DU i oroesi’r storm yn well na’r rhan fwyaf o wledydd yr UE—cofiwch yr Eidal, er enghraifft. Dim ond saith gwlad a ymadferodd o ran y buddsoddiad uniongyrchol tramor sy’n allweddol i dwf, ac mae’r Deyrnas Unedig yn un o’r rhain, o flaen yr Unol Daleithiau, yr Almaen, Tsieina a Japan.
Mae twf y DU hefyd wedi bod uwch na thwf yr Almaen yn gyson ers y pandemig, ond o dan gapteiniaeth Mark Drakeford a Vaughan Gething yng Nghymru, mae ein heconomi yn dal i fod yn farwaidd. Mae’r gwynt yn cael ei dynnu o’n hwyliau gan y penderfyniadau economaidd gwael. Mae gwerth gros y pen yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd yn llai na thri chwarter cyfartaledd y DU; mae anweithgarwch economaidd yn 28 y cant, o gymharu â chyfartaledd y DU o 22 y cant; mae cyflogaeth yn 68.9 y cant, o gymharu â chyfartaledd y DU o 74.3 y cant. Mae economi Cymru, fel ein modurwyr, yn symud ar gyflymder malwen, ac mae’r gwahaniaethau hyn yn tyfu’n barhaus. Mae pobl y wlad hon yn haeddu gwell.
Mae angen i Lywodraeth Cymru nodi’r amodau economaidd er mwyn i’n heconomi ffynnu, ac mae codi'r gwastad yng ngogledd Cymru drwy fuddsoddi mewn seilwaith, fel y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi’i wneud gyda metro de Cymru, yn hanfodol. Dangosodd adroddiad gan PricewaterhouseCoopers fod cynhyrchiant yng Nghymru yn cael ei gynnal gan Gaerdydd yn unig, gyda’r ffigurau yn y gogledd yn arbennig o enbyd. Mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi gorfod mynd i’r afael â’r mater, gyda £2.5 biliwn o gyllid ffyniant bro i Gymru, lle mae cymunedau fel fy un i yn y gogledd wedi cael eu hesgeuluso gan Lywodraeth Cymru.
Gellid dadlau am y pwnc hwn am ddyddiau, ond hoffwn gloi fy sylwadau drwy ailadrodd fy ngalwad ar Lywodraeth Cymru i adfer rhyddhad ardrethi busnes i 75 y cant ar gyfer manwerthu, lletygarwch a hamdden, a diddymu ardrethi busnes ar gyfer busnesau bach, a fyddai’n mynd rywfaint o’r ffordd i roi hwb i fusnesau sy’n ei chael hi’n anodd, yn gwrthdroi’r duedd o ddiweithdra cymharol uwch ac yn gwella cyfraddau goroesi ein busnesau, sef y trydydd isaf ymhlith holl wledydd y DU, fel y gallwn ddechrau gwella'r sefyllfa.
Hoffwn ychwanegu troednodyn at fy sylwadau drwy ddweud mai’r broblem fwyaf a oedd gennym pan oeddem yn aelodau o’r Undeb Ewropeaidd oedd na allem ostwng cyfraddau llog islaw 5 y cant ar faterion banciau bwyd a nwyddau mislif o dan ddeddfwriaeth yr UE, ac mae'n rhyddid a enillwyd gennym drwy Brexit, a alluogodd y Deyrnas Unedig i weithredu o fewn economi rydd heb faich deddfwriaeth Ewropeaidd, a oedd yn atal cyfraddau TAW rhag cael eu gostwng. Dyna’r rheswm pam na chafwyd rhyddhad ardrethi ar nwyddau mislif cyn 2016, a dyna’r rheswm pam fod prisiau wedi gostwng dros y cyfnod hwnnw, am ein bod wedi rhyddhau ein hunain o faich economaidd yr Undeb Ewropeaidd wrth bleidleisio dros Brexit yn 2016, ac mae'n rhaid inni ddathlu hynny a gwneud y gorau o hynny i Gymru. Diolch.
Daeth y Llywydd i’r Gadair.
The Llywydd took the Chair.
Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros yr Economi, Ynni a’r Gymraeg nawr i gyfrannu—Jeremy Miles.
The Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language to reply—Jeremy Miles.
Diolch, Llywydd. The UK economy is on a burning platform. That's why this is one of the most important UK general elections for decades. And despite the almost farcical attempts of the Conservative group to dress up the statistics—and we saw some fantastic examples of creative writing here today—the reality is that the UK has been one of the worst performing advanced economies for a sustained period of time, both in terms of high inflation and weak growth. And the last 14 years of Tory chaos have eroded living standards, with high energy and food prices disproportionately affecting people on low incomes and other disadvantaged groups.
We cannot sweep under the carpet, as they seek to do, that the cost of living increased sharply across the UK during 2021 and 2022, and the impact of the disastrous mini-budget by Liz Truss. And several speakers—every single speaker on the Conservative benches—have stood up today to defend that budget, and the people of Wales will look at this debate and reflect on that. That budget has been catastrophic for Wales. The annual rate of inflation reached 11.1 per cent in October 2022—a 41-year high. There are Members on those benches who won't have been alive at the point it was as high in the past.
Diolch, Lywydd. Mae economi’r DU mewn argyfwng. Dyna pam mai dyma un o etholiadau cyffredinol pwysicaf y DU ers degawdau. Ac er gwaethaf ymdrechion bron yn chwerthinllyd y grŵp Ceidwadol i ystumio’r ystadegau—a gwelsom enghreifftiau gwych o ysgrifennu creadigol yma heddiw—y gwir amdani yw bod y DU wedi bod yn un o’r economïau datblygedig sy’n perfformio waethaf ers amser hir, o ran chwyddiant uchel a thwf gwan. Ac mae'r 14 mlynedd diwethaf o anhrefn Torïaidd wedi erydu safonau byw, gyda phrisiau ynni a bwyd uchel yn effeithio'n anghymesur ar bobl ar incwm isel a grwpiau difreintiedig eraill.
Ni allwn ddiystyru’r ffaith, fel y ceisiant hwy ei wneud, fod costau byw wedi cynyddu’n eithriadol ledled y DU yn ystod 2021 a 2022, ac effaith y gyllideb fach drychinebus gan Liz Truss. Ac mae sawl siaradwr—pob un siaradwr ar feinciau'r Ceidwadwyr—wedi codi heddiw i amddiffyn y gyllideb honno, a bydd pobl Cymru yn edrych ar y ddadl hon ac yn myfyrio ar hynny. Bu’r gyllideb honno’n drychinebus i Gymru. Cyrhaeddodd cyfradd flynyddol chwyddiant 11.1 y cant ym mis Hydref 2022—yn uwch nag y bu ers 41 o flynyddoedd. Mae yna Aelodau ar y meinciau hynny nad oeddent yn fyw pan oedd mor uchel â hynny yn y gorffennol.
Will you take an intervention?
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?
Certainly.
Yn sicr.
I'm grateful to the Minister for taking an intervention. Can you name a western European country that hasn't suffered comparable inflation, comparable interest rates or worse unemployment than the United Kingdom? If you can't, then obviously, that indicates that this isn't just a UK problem, it's a European and western problem that everyone has suffered. And we are now the fastest growing economy in the G7 in the last quarter. That's a statement of fact.
Rwy’n ddiolchgar i’r Gweinidog am dderbyn ymyriad. A allwch chi enwi gwlad yng ngorllewin Ewrop sydd heb ddioddef chwyddiant tebyg, cyfraddau llog tebyg neu waeth diweithdra na’r Deyrnas Unedig? Os na allwch, yna yn amlwg, mae hynny'n dangos nad problem i'r DU yn unig yw hon, mae'n broblem Ewropeaidd ac yn broblem orllewinol y mae pawb wedi'i dioddef. A ni bellach yw'r economi sy'n tyfu gyflymaf yn y G7 yn y chwarter diwethaf. Mae hynny’n ffaith.
Well, the Member is playing fast and loose with the international evidence in his contribution—[Interruption.] The Member is playing absolutely fast and loose and the reality is that that budget, which they've all defended today—they've all defended the Liz Truss budget—has devastated people's finances. And the legacy continues to impact our most disadvantaged communities. Her tenure lasted a mere 45 days, but the pressure on people's living costs continues to this day: 1.6 million households, whose fixed rate mortgages end in 2024 facing significantly higher mortgage costs; rental prices have also sky rocketed; according to an Office for National Statistics survey published last month, 55 per cent of adults in the UK reported an increase in their cost of living compared to the previous month; foodbank charities, debt advice charities are all reporting an increase in demand; the Trussell Trust provided over 3 million emergency food parcels across the UK in the last year—a record high, a Conservative record high; and last month, Citizens Advice helped more than 47,000 people with debt advice across the UK. These are not the signs of an economy that is being levelled up, or of shared prosperity.
This Tory UK Government have continued to give us short-term policies, pilot schemes and pet projects, rather than longer term plans. The constant chopping and changing of UK Ministers and an array of flip-flopping economic approaches have created a disastrous uncertainty across our economy. And for the Conservative group to lay a motion of this sort is ludicrous and tells us how little they grasp the realities of life for people in this country, where they have a leader who can claim he understands the hardship created by his own Government because he went without Sky tv as a child. It is excruciating. [Interruption.]
And in this climate of Conservative making, the Welsh Government has—. Our budget in 2024-25 is £3 billion lower—[Interruption.]
Wel, mae’r Aelod yn anghyfrifol iawn gyda’r dystiolaeth ryngwladol yn ei gyfraniad—[Torri ar draws.] Mae’r Aelod yn anghyfrifol iawn a’r gwir amdani yw bod y gyllideb honno, y maent i gyd wedi’i hamddiffyn heddiw—maent i gyd wedi amddiffyn cyllideb Liz Truss—wedi dinistrio cyllid pobl. Ac mae'n parhau i effeithio ar ein cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig. Dim ond 45 diwrnod oedd hyd ei chyfnod yn y swydd, ond mae’r pwysau ar gostau byw pobl yn parhau hyd heddiw: 1.6 miliwn o aelwydydd, y mae eu morgeisi cyfradd sefydlog yn dod i ben yn 2024 yn wynebu costau morgais sylweddol uwch; mae prisiau rhentu hefyd wedi codi i’r entrychion; yn ôl arolwg gan y Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol a gyhoeddwyd fis diwethaf, nododd 55 y cant o oedolion yn y DU gynnydd yn eu costau byw o gymharu â’r mis blaenorol; mae elusennau banciau bwyd, elusennau sy'n rhoi cyngor ar ddyledion oll yn adrodd am gynnydd yn y galw; darparodd Ymddiriedolaeth Trussell dros 3 miliwn o barseli bwyd argyfwng ledled y DU yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf—y lefel uchaf erioed, y lefel uchaf erioed o dan y Ceidwadwyr; a’r mis diwethaf, helpodd Cyngor ar Bopeth fwy na 47,000 o bobl gyda chyngor ar ddyledion ledled y DU. Nid arwydd o economi sy’n codi’r gwastad yw hyn, nac o ffyniant cyffredin.
Mae’r Llywodraeth Dorïaidd hon yn y DU wedi parhau i roi polisïau tymor byr, cynlluniau peilot a phrosiectau porthi balchder i ni, yn hytrach na chynlluniau mwy hirdymor. Mae'r newid diddiwedd i Weinidogion y DU a fflyd o ddulliau economaidd sy'n newid yn barhaus wedi creu ansicrwydd trychinebus ar draws ein heconomi. Ac mae i’r grŵp Ceidwadol osod cynnig o’r math hwn yn chwerthinllyd ac yn dweud wrthym cyn lleied y maent yn amgyffred realiti bywyd i bobl yn y wlad hon, lle mae ganddynt arweinydd a all honni ei fod yn deall y caledi a grëwyd gan ei Lywodraeth ei hun am ei fod wedi mynd heb deledu Sky yn blentyn. Mae'n echrydus. [Torri ar draws.]
Ac yn yr hinsawdd hon a grëwyd gan y Ceidwadwyr, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi—. Mae ein cyllideb yn 2024-25 £3 biliwn yn is—[Torri ar draws.]
I do need to hear the Cabinet Secretary in his response, and I would hope that the Conservative group also wants to hear the content of the response as well.
Mae angen imi glywed Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn ei ymateb, ac rwy’n gobeithio bod grŵp y Ceidwadwyr hefyd eisiau clywed cynnwys yr ymateb.
Three billion pounds lower is what the UK Government's impact on the Welsh Government budget has been. EU funds previously used to fund employability, skills, innovation, business support and apprenticeships, which the Tories promised to replace, they've broken that promise, leaving a shortfall of £1.3 billion in the levelling-up and shared prosperity funds, meaning Wales has less control over less money, actively undermining devolution.
Despite all of this, the gap in employment rates between Wales and the UK has seen a marked improvement over the course of devolution. The improvement in the employment rate has been especially significant for women in Wales. The employment rate has also improved in west Wales and the Valleys, areas that benefited specifically from the highest levels of financial support available via three successive rounds of European structural funds, which Conservative politicians have denied Wales. [Interruption.]
I've been clear that my three priority areas are to increase—
Tri biliwn o bunnoedd yn is yw effaith Llywodraeth y DU ar gyllideb Llywodraeth Cymru. O'r blaen, arferai cronfeydd yr UE ariannu cyflogadwyedd, sgiliau, arloesedd, cymorth busnes a phrentisiaethau, cronfeydd yr addawodd y Torïaid roi arian yn eu lle, ac maent wedi torri’r addewid hwnnw, gan adael diffyg o £1.3 biliwn yn y cronfeydd ffyniant bro a ffyniant cyffredin, sy’n golygu bod gan Gymru lai o reolaeth dros lai o arian, gan danseilio datganoli'n weithredol.
Er gwaethaf hyn oll, mae’r bwlch mewn cyfraddau cyflogaeth rhwng Cymru a’r DU wedi gweld gwelliant amlwg yn ystod datganoli. Mae'r gwelliant yn y gyfradd gyflogaeth wedi bod yn arbennig o arwyddocaol i fenywod yng Nghymru. Mae’r gyfradd gyflogaeth hefyd wedi gwella yng ngorllewin Cymru a’r Cymoedd, ardaloedd a gafodd fudd penodol o’r lefelau uchaf o gymorth ariannol a oedd ar gael drwy gyfrwng tri chylch olynol o gronfeydd strwythurol Ewropeaidd, yr amddifadwyd Cymru ohonynt gan wleidyddion Ceidwadol. [Torri ar draws.]
Rwyf wedi bod yn glir mai fy nhri maes blaenoriaeth yw cynyddu—.
Please, now, let the Minister continue in his contribution to your debate. You want the Minister to respond to your debate, so let's hear him speak, please.
Os gwelwch yn dda, gadewch i’r Gweinidog barhau yn ei gyfraniad i’ch dadl. Rydych chi eisiau i’r Gweinidog ymateb i’ch dadl, felly gadewch i ni ei glywed yn siarad, os gwelwch yn dda.
We continue to back our businesses in Wales. Business Wales continues to support entrepreneurs—
Rydym yn parhau i gefnogi ein busnesau yng Nghymru. Mae Busnes Cymru yn parhau i gefnogi entrepreneuriaid—
No, let's not start again, just after I've told you off. If we can hear the rest of the contribution in some silence, please.
Na, gadewch inni beidio â dechrau eto, ar ôl imi ddweud y drefn wrthych. A gawn ni glywed gweddill y cyfraniad mewn tawelwch, os gwelwch yn dda?
Diolch, Llywydd. Business Wales continues to support entrepreneurs and small and medium-sized enterprises in every part of the country; over £140 million in small business rate relief supports ratepayers for around 70,000 properties across Wales every year; an extra £78 million to provide a fifth successive year of support for retail, leisure and hospitality businesses; the Development Bank of Wales, helping businesses grow and invest. [Interruption.] The Wales business fund invests £216 million, supporting 474 businesses and creating and safeguarding almost 9,000 jobs. We will continue to work with and to support businesses right across Wales.
This Welsh Labour Government will continue to do everything in our powers to support a dynamic economy that will support the hopes and aspirations of our young people, making Wales the best place in the UK to invest and to work. On this side of the Chamber, we are working hard and hoping that these last, long 14 years of Tory mismanagement are coming to an end, and not a moment too soon. We want to see a Government in Westminster that will work with a Welsh Labour Government and with our Senedd; a Labour UK Government that sees the potential of Wales, rather than constantly talking us down; a Labour Government with a serious plan for the economy; and a Labour Government, a partner to this Welsh Labour Government, to realise the ambitions that we have for Wales as a nation of prosperity and solidarity.
Diolch, Lywydd. Mae Busnes Cymru yn parhau i gefnogi entrepreneuriaid a busnesau bach a chanolig ym mhob rhan o’r wlad; mae dros £140 miliwn mewn rhyddhad ardrethi busnesau bach yn cefnogi talwyr ardrethi ar oddeutu 70,000 eiddo ledled Cymru bob blwyddyn; £78 miliwn ychwanegol i ddarparu cymorth am y bumed flwyddyn yn olynol i fusnesau manwerthu, hamdden a lletygarwch; Banc Datblygu Cymru yn helpu busnesau i dyfu a buddsoddi. [Torri ar draws.] Mae cronfa fusnes Cymru yn buddsoddi £216 miliwn i gefnogi 474 o fusnesau a chreu a diogelu bron i 9,000 o swyddi. Byddwn yn parhau i gefnogi a gweithio gyda busnesau ledled Cymru.
Bydd y Llywodraeth Lafur hon yn parhau i wneud popeth yn ein gallu i gefnogi economi ddeinamig a fydd yn cefnogi gobeithion a dyheadau ein pobl ifanc, gan wneud Cymru y lle gorau yn y DU i fuddsoddi ac i weithio ynddo. Ar yr ochr hon i’r Siambr, rydym yn gweithio’n galed ac yn gobeithio bod y 14 blynedd faith ddiwethaf o gamreoli’r Torïaid yn dod i ben, a hynny heb fod eiliad yn rhy fuan. Rydym am weld Llywodraeth yn San Steffan a fydd yn gweithio gyda Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru a chyda’n Senedd; Llywodraeth Lafur yn y DU sy’n gweld potensial Cymru, yn hytrach na’n difrïo’n gyson; Llywodraeth Lafur a chanddi gynllun difrifol ar gyfer yr economi; a Llywodraeth Lafur sy’n bartner i’r Llywodraeth Lafur Gymreig hon i wireddu’r uchelgeisiau sydd gennym ar gyfer Cymru fel cenedl o ffyniant ac undod.
Peter Fox nawr i ymateb i'r ddadl.
Peter Fox to reply to the debate.
Diolch, Llywydd. I'd like to thank my colleague Sam Kurtz for opening this debate, and all those of you who have taken part. It's a debate that has to be had, as the people of Wales need to know how bad things are here, and, after 25 years of Labour control, how little has been achieved on the economy by Welsh Labour and their occasional Plaid Cymru partners. Indeed, the messages we've heard from Labour today, it's almost as if they're living in a parallel universe, not recognising or, rather, not focusing on what the issues are in Wales.
But, Sam, thank you for opening. You pointed out how Wales is a home for enterprise and innovation, how we have a breadth of fantastic businesses here, and you reminded us of the pressures they went through during COVID, and then, of course, the things that followed, like Ukraine, and how the UK Government responded to that with the furlough scheme, protecting 11 million jobs—big things. We're coming back to a position where we're seeing growth here—the fastest growth in the G7—and reduced inflation rates.
Luke, you reverted to attacking the UK Government with the same old rhetoric, and didn't see the benefits of levelling-up. I welcome the fact that he recognised that inflation is now coming down due to the UK Government's plan. He also had a dig at Labour, which he quite rightly needed to do, but we must remind him that Plaid Cymru have propped up Labour on the budget front several times over the last 25 years, so you're part of the situation that has been caused here.
Mark Isherwood pointed out that devolution should have helped Wales to thrive, but 25 years of Welsh Labour have left our country underperforming. Wages have been growing here for the last 11 months now, due to the UK's plan, and he's shone a light on the failings of Labour and the historical UK Labour performance.
Rhianon Passmore didn't want to recognise the improvements brought by UK Government. Her focus was on England again—never a focus on Wales, never a focus on this country, the country we're supposed to be all representing. Let's focus on England and try to shine a light on their issues, when you should be shining a light on your own Government's issues, which is performing so badly. And Carolyn did the same. It's the usual rhetoric, ignoring those real issues. I'll refer to the—[Interruption.] Oh, sorry, you can do, yes, certainly.
Diolch, Lywydd. Hoffwn ddiolch i fy nghyd-Aelod, Sam Kurtz, am agor y ddadl hon, a phawb ohonoch sydd wedi cymryd rhan. Mae’n ddadl y bu’n rhaid ei chael, gan fod angen i bobl Cymru wybod pa mor ddrwg yw pethau yma, ac ar ôl 25 mlynedd o reolaeth Lafur, cyn lleied sydd wedi’i gyflawni ar yr economi gan Lafur Cymru a’u partneriaid achlysurol, Plaid Cymru. Yn wir, y negeseuon a glywsom gan Lafur heddiw, mae hi bron fel pe baent yn byw mewn bydysawd cyfochrog, heb gydnabod, neu’n hytrach, heb ganolbwyntio ar beth yw'r problemau yng Nghymru.
Ond Sam, diolch i chi am agor. Fe wnaethoch chi dynnu sylw at sut mae Cymru yn gartref i fenter ac arloesedd, sut mae gennym ystod eang o fusnesau gwych yma, ac fe wnaethoch ein hatgoffa o’r pwysau y maent wedi ei wynebu yn sgil COVID, ac yna, wrth gwrs, y pethau a ddilynodd, fel Wcráin, a sut yr ymatebodd Llywodraeth y DU i hynny gyda'r cynllun ffyrlo, gan ddiogelu 11 miliwn o swyddi—pethau mawr. Down yn ôl at sefyllfa lle rydym yn gweld twf yma—y twf cyflymaf yn y G7—a chyfraddau chwyddiant is.
Luke, fe wnaethoch chi ymroi i ymosod ar Lywodraeth y DU gyda’r un hen rethreg, ac ni welech fanteision codi’r gwastad. Rwy’n croesawu’r ffaith ei fod wedi cydnabod bod chwyddiant bellach yn gostwng oherwydd cynllun Llywodraeth y DU. Fe wnaeth ladd ar Lafur hefyd, rhywbeth yr oedd angen iddo ei wneud yn gwbl briodol, ond rhaid inni ei atgoffa bod Plaid Cymru wedi cynnal Llafur gyda’r gyllideb sawl gwaith dros y 25 mlynedd diwethaf, felly rydych chi'n rhan o'r sefyllfa a achoswyd yma.
Tynnodd Mark Isherwood sylw at y ffaith y dylai datganoli fod wedi helpu Cymru i ffynnu, ond mae 25 mlynedd o Lafur Cymru wedi gadael ein gwlad yn tangyflawni. Mae cyflogau wedi bod yn codi yma ers yr 11 mis diwethaf bellach, oherwydd cynllun y DU, ac fe wnaeth daflu goleuni ar fethiannau Llafur a pherfformiad hanesyddol Llafur y DU.
Nid oedd Rhianon Passmore am gydnabod y gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd gan Lywodraeth y DU. Roedd ei ffocws ar Loegr eto—byth ffocws ar Gymru, byth ffocws ar y wlad hon, y wlad rydym i gyd i fod yn ei chynrychioli. Gadewch inni ganolbwyntio ar Loegr a cheisio taflu goleuni ar eu problemau nhw, lle dylech fod yn taflu goleuni ar broblemau eich Llywodraeth eich hun, sy’n perfformio mor wael. Ac fe wnaeth Carolyn yr un peth. Y rhethreg arferol, gan anwybyddu'r problemau real hynny. Fe gyfeiriaf at y—[Torri ar draws.] O, mae'n ddrwg gennyf, gallwch, yn sicr.
If the Member's allowing you, yes, of course you can, Carolyn Thomas.
Os yw’r Aelod yn caniatáu i chi wneud, wrth gwrs y cewch chi, Carolyn Thomas.
Thank you. But I did mention that Welsh Government worked together with UK Government regarding the free ports, the investment zones and the ambition boards. That's really positive.
Diolch. Ond fe soniais fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cydweithio â Llywodraeth y DU ar y porthladdoedd rhydd, y parthau buddsoddi a’r byrddau uchelgais. Mae hynny'n gadarnhaol iawn.
Well, I welcome that, yes, Carolyn. I apologise for not recognising you recognise the good work of the UK Government. But it was interesting, I was watching the Welsh Labour party political broadcast the other day, and I was really surprised that there were no Welsh people in it. It was talking about English people. Wales were too embarrassed to interview their own Welsh citizens, who have experienced what Welsh Labour does to them in this country, so they reverted to find some English people to fill their viewing time, which was a disgrace.
Janet pointed out again how hard it is for small businesses, and how they've been affected, and pointed out quite clearly that the Welsh Government don't understand business—63 pubs closing, for instance, their doors shut for ever in Wales. And Gareth pointed out again the sorry state of the economy here, and how it's shrunk by 1 per cent since 2018, and reminded us of that famous letter from Liam Byrne when Labour were last in control—sorry, the money has all gone. But it just shows the mindset of Labour, that they don't care about how they spend other people's money, and they'll let it go and leave us to clean up the mess in a few years' time.
Minister, I was disappointed because you said that the UK economy was on a burning platform, but, again, I'd hoped as a Minister you'd be talking about—sorry, a Cabinet Secretary—how you had a proper plan, a plan for growth, but you hardly mentioned growth and the importance of creating wealth and creating innovation, almost in denial of the 25 years of inactivity. And you said at the end that you're doing everything in your power—everything in your power—and you'll keep doing that, to drive up the economy in Wales, but we're 25 years on. You haven't done it. We're the lowest performing part of the UK. So, what's the excuse? [Interruption.]
Llywydd, we can argue all we want—we can argue all we want—but it's clear the UK Government have a clear strategy for success that is working. We are seeing inflation brought down to just over 2 per cent. We have the fastest growing economy in the G7. The UK Government could see the opportunities for Wales. They took the initiative and worked with Welsh Government and councils to create city deals and growth deals across Wales, and we've already seen—. We'll see free ports and we're seeing investment zones. We've seen levelling up and we've seen shared prosperity funds working for communities across Wales. It's clear the UK Conservative Government have created the tools to help Wales be the best it can be, creating the conditions for future growth.
We so desperately need it, as, sadly, at the moment, we see Wales with the lowest employment rate, lowest median wages and the highest economic inactivity rate in the UK. We are seeing small businesses suffering from a lack of support, we see tourism tax and constraints on tourism business, and it shouldn't be this way. We need Wales to really thrive, be aspirational with a clear plan for economic growth. We want our young people—they need to have hope, they need access to good jobs and good pay, so that they can live and work in Wales, raise their families here, aspire to securing a home and a positive future. These things should be something this Labour Government should want to deliver, but, sadly, they don't get the importance of growth and wealth creation. They are void of innovative thinking. This lack of governmental aspiration is letting this country down, and will let our future generations down. I urge Members to ignore the desperate amendments laid by Labour and Plaid Cymru and support our amendments, which tell the real story.
Wel, rwy’n croesawu hynny, ydw, Carolyn. Rwy’n ymddiheuro am beidio â chydnabod eich bod yn cydnabod gwaith da Llywodraeth y DU. Ond roedd yn ddiddorol, roeddwn i'n gwylio darllediad gwleidyddol Llafur Cymru y diwrnod o'r blaen, ac roeddwn i'n synnu'n fawr nad oedd yna Gymry ynddo. Roedd yn siarad am Saeson. Roedd gormod o gywilydd gan Gymru i gyfweld â’u dinasyddion Cymreig eu hunain, sydd wedi profi’r hyn y mae Llafur Cymru yn ei wneud iddynt yn y wlad hon, felly fe ddaethant o hyd i Saeson i lenwi eu hamser gwylio, ac roedd hynny’n warthus.
Tynnodd Janet sylw unwaith eto at ba mor anodd yw hi i fusnesau bach, a sut yr effeithiwyd arnynt, a nododd yn gwbl glir nad yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn deall busnes—63 o dafarndai’n cau, er enghraifft, eu drysau ar gau am byth yng Nghymru. Ac unwaith eto, nododd Gareth gyflwr truenus yr economi yma, a sut mae wedi crebachu 1 y cant ers 2018, ac fe’n hatgoffodd o’r llythyr enwog gan Liam Byrne pan oedd Llafur yn rheoli ddiwethaf—mae’n ddrwg gennym, mae’r arian i gyd wedi mynd. Ond mae'n dangos meddylfryd Llafur, nad oes ots ganddynt sut maent yn gwario arian pobl eraill a byddant yn ei adael i fynd ac yn gadael i ni lanhau'r llanast ymhen ychydig flynyddoedd.
Weinidog, roeddwn yn siomedig oherwydd fe ddywedoch chi fod economi’r DU mewn argyfwng, ond unwaith eto, roeddwn wedi gobeithio fel Gweinidog y byddech chi’n sôn—mae’n ddrwg gennyf, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet—sut oedd gennych gynllun priodol, cynllun ar gyfer twf, ond prin y sonioch chi am dwf a phwysigrwydd creu cyfoeth a chreu arloesedd, bron fel pe baech chi’n gwadu’r 25 mlynedd o anweithgarwch. Ac fe ddywedoch chi ar y diwedd eich bod yn gwneud popeth yn eich gallu—popeth yn eich gallu—ac y byddwch yn parhau i wneud hynny, i hybu'r economi yng Nghymru, ond mae 25 mlynedd wedi mynd heibio. Nid ydych wedi ei wneud. Ni yw'r rhan o'r DU sy'n perfformio waethaf. Felly, beth yw'r esgus? [Torri ar draws.]
Lywydd, gallwn ddadlau cymaint ag y dymunwn—gallwn ddadlau cymaint ag y dymunwn—ond mae’n amlwg fod gan Lywodraeth y DU strategaeth glir ar gyfer llwyddiant sy’n gweithio. Rydym yn gweld chwyddiant yn gostwng i ychydig dros 2 y cant. Gennym ni y mae'r economi sy'n tyfu gyflymaf yn y G7. Gallai Llywodraeth y DU weld y cyfleoedd i Gymru. Fe wnaethant gymryd yr awenau a gweithio gyda Llywodraeth Cymru a chynghorau i greu bargeinion dinesig a bargeinion twf ledled Cymru, ac rydym eisoes wedi gweld—. Byddwn yn gweld porthladdoedd rhydd ac rydym yn gweld parthau buddsoddi. Rydym wedi gweld cronfeydd codi’r gwastad a ffyniant cyffredin yn gweithio i gymunedau ledled Cymru. Mae'n amlwg fod Llywodraeth Geidwadol y DU wedi creu'r offer i helpu Cymru i fod y gorau y gall fod, gan greu'r amodau ar gyfer twf yn y dyfodol.
Mae arnom angen hynny mor ddirfawr, gan ein bod ar hyn o bryd yn gweld mai Cymru sydd â’r gyfradd gyflogaeth isaf, y cyflogau canolrifol isaf a’r gyfradd anweithgarwch economaidd uchaf yn y DU. Rydym yn gweld busnesau bach yn dioddef o ddiffyg cymorth, rydym yn gweld treth dwristiaeth a chyfyngiadau ar fusnesau twristiaeth, ac ni ddylai fod fel hyn. Mae arnom angen i Gymru ffynnu’n iawn, i fod yn uchelgeisiol gyda chynllun clir ar gyfer twf economaidd. Rydym eisiau i’n pobl ifanc—mae angen iddynt gael gobaith, mae angen iddynt gael mynediad at swyddi da a chyflogau da er mwyn iddynt allu byw a gweithio yng Nghymru, magu eu teuluoedd yma, anelu at sicrhau cartref a dyfodol cadarnhaol. Dylai’r pethau hyn fod yn rhywbeth y dylai’r Llywodraeth Lafur hon fod eisiau ei gyflawni, ond yn anffodus, nid ydynt yn deall pwysigrwydd twf a chreu cyfoeth. Maent wedi eu hamddifadu o feddwl arloesol. Mae’r diffyg dyhead hwn gan y llywodraeth yn gwneud cam â’r wlad hon, a bydd yn gwneud cam â chenedlaethau’r dyfodol. Rwy’n annog yr Aelodau i anwybyddu’r gwelliannau enbyd a gyflwynwyd gan Lafur a Phlaid Cymru a chefnogi ein gwelliannau ni, sy’n adrodd y stori go iawn.
Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio? Oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Oes, mae yna wrthwynebiad. Felly, fe wnawn ni ohirio'r pleidleisio ar yr eitem yma tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there is objection. I will defer voting under this item until voting time.
Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Voting deferred until voting time.
Detholwyd y gwelliannau canlynol: gwelliant 1 yn enw Jane Hutt, a gwelliant 2 yn enw Darren Millar. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliant 2 ei ddad-ddethol.
The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Jane Hutt, and amendment 2 in the name of Darren Millar. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected.
Eitem 8 sydd nesaf. Dadl Plaid Cymru yw hon, ar y gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl ac anabledd dysgu ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr. Dwi'n galw ar Mabon ap Gwynfor i wneud y cynnig.
Item 8 is next. This is a Plaid Cymru debate on mental health and learning disability services at Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board. I call on Mabon ap Gwynfor to move the motion.
Cynnig NDM8604 Heledd Fychan
Cynnig bod y Senedd:
1. Yn nodi Adroddiad Adolygiad Gwasanaeth Gwahoddedig Coleg Brenhinol y Seiciatryddion ar wasanaethau iechyd meddwl ac anabledd dysgu ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr, sydd wedi asesu'r cynnydd a wnaed gan y Bwrdd ar 84 o argymhellion a oedd wedi'u cynnwys mewn pedwar adroddiad ar wahân ers 2013.
2. Yn gresynu bod chwech o'r 84 o argymhellion wedi'u categoreiddio'n goch, gan ddangos fawr ddim tystiolaeth o weithredu os o gwbl, a bod 40 wedi’u categoreiddio’n ambr, gan ddangos dim ond rhywfaint o dystiolaeth neu dystiolaeth gymedrol o weithredu, dros ddegawd ar ôl cyhoeddi'r adroddiad terfynol.
3. Yn credu bod y cynnydd a wnaed ar weithredu'r argymhellion wedi'i danseilio gan y penderfyniad dadleuol i dynnu Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr allan o fesurau arbennig ym mis Tachwedd 2020.
4. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru:
a) i ddarparu'r cymorth angenrheidiol i sicrhau bod Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr yn gweithredu argymhellion Adroddiad yr Adolygiad Gwasanaeth Gwahoddedig yn llawn ac i nodi amserlenni clir ar gyfer cyflawni hyn; a
b) i gyhoeddi'r cyngor gweinidogol a arweiniodd at y penderfyniad i dynnu Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr allan o fesurau arbennig ym mis Tachwedd 2020 ac unrhyw wybodaeth berthnasol arall gan nodi'r goblygiadau i ddarpariaeth iechyd meddwl yng Ngogledd Cymru.
Motion NDM8604 Heledd Fychan
To propose that the Senedd:
1. Notes the Royal College of Psychiatrists’ Invited Review Services Report into Mental Health and Learning Disability services at Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board, which has assessed the progress made by the Board on 84 recommendations featured in four separate reports since 2013.
2. Regrets that of the 84 recommendations, six were categorised red, showing little or no evidence of implementation, and 41 were categorised as amber, showing only some or moderate evidence of implementation, over a decade on after the publication of the final report.
3. Believes that progress made on implementing the recommendations was undermined by the contentious decision to lift Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board out of special measures in November 2020.
4. Calls on the Welsh Government to:
a) provide the required support to ensure that Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board implement the recommendations of the IRS report in full and to set out clear timescales for achieving this; and
b) publish the ministerial advice that led to the decision to lift Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board out of special measures in November 2020 and any other relevant information specifying the implications on mental health provision in North Wales.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd. Os ydyn ni wedi dysgu un wers o hanes bwrdd iechyd Betsi Cadwaladr, y wers ydy nad ydy gwersi'n cael eu dysgu. Mae'r arfer anffodus yma yn cael ei amlygu yn adroddiad Coleg Brenhinol y Seiciatryddion i mewn i wasanaethau iechyd meddwl ac anghenion dysgu ym mwrdd iechyd Betsi Cadwaladr. Fel y gŵyr pawb yma heddiw, codwyd pryderon difrifol ynghylch gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl Betsi Cadwaladr nôl yn 2013 wrth i ymchwiliad gael ei gynnal i mewn i'r berthynas wael rhwng staff a rheolwyr yn uned Hergest Ysbyty Gwynedd. Yna, caewyd ward Tawel Fan yn Ysbyty Glan Clwyd. Codwyd pryderon am ddiogelwch cleifion yn uned Ablett Ysbyty Glan Clwyd hefyd, a chyflwynwyd mesurau wedi'u targedu gan y Llywodraeth.
Thank you very much, Llywydd. If we've learnt one lesson from the story of the Betsi Cadwaladr health board, then that story is that lessons aren't learnt. This unfortunate practice is highlighted in the Royal College of Psychiatrists report into mental health and learning disability services in Betsi Cadwaladr. As everyone here knows, serious concerns were raised about mental health services in Betsi Cadwaladr back in 2013, as an inquiry was held into the poor relationship between staff and managers at the Hergest unit at Ysbyty Gwynedd. Then, the Tawel Fan ward at Ysbyty Glan Clwyd was closed. Concerns were raised about the safety of patients at the Ablett unit at Ysbyty Glan Clwyd, and targeted measures were introduced by the Government.
The Royal College of Psychiatrists invited review service report has therefore reviewed progress on implementing the series of recommendations made in four separate reports into mental health services at Betsi. Of course, we welcome the commissioning of this report, but it is a damning indictment of the glacial to non-existent pace of reform at the health board that, of the 84 recommendations reviewed in total, well over half have been classified as either amber, reflecting only some or moderate evidence of implementation, or red, reflecting little or no evidence of implementation.
Some of the more serious oversights make for grimly familiar reading—for example, the lack of coherent and comprehensive digital platforms across the health board. Then there's the overabundance of interim posts at managerial level and the sense of instability that inevitably engenders, a recurring theme that I've raised in response to the update report on special measures at Betsi back in September of last year and several times afterwards. Most glaring of all is the continued lack of a specialist consultant nurse with specific responsibility for dementia within the mental health and disability directorate.
These recommendations have been in place for at least half a decade. Paucity of time for proper implementation is simply not an excuse. We are therefore calling on the Government to provide all necessary support to ensure the health board can enact the recommendations of the IRS report in full, and to set out clear timescales for achieving this. We also believe that the findings of this review highlight the need for full disclosure and transparency on the part of this Government regarding the contentious circumstances that led to the board being lifted out of special measures in November 2020.
We have long been of the view that this was a premature decision that undermined work to address issues at the health board, a view that is reinforced by the fact that the other partners in the tripartite escalation framework, Audit Wales and Healthcare Inspectorate Wales, have since confirmed that they advised against this course of action. It is for this reason we are also calling for the ministerial advice that informed this decision to be released into the public domain so that we can ensure that progress made on improving services at Betsi is never again compromised by opportunistic political considerations.
I can assure the Cabinet Secretary that it gives us no pleasure to have to revisit this age-old theme of chronic failings at Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board. We're tired of it, and without a doubt, the people of north Wales are tired of it, too. But until there is clear evidence that improvements are being made in a timely fashion, we owe it to both the hard-working staff and the patients of Betsi Cadwaladr to be persistent in holding the board and the Government to account. For this reason, I urge the Senedd to support the motion.
O'r herwydd, mae adroddiad adolygiad gwasanaeth gwahoddedig Coleg Brenhinol y Seiciatryddion wedi adolygu'r cynnydd ar weithredu'r gyfres o argymhellion a wnaed mewn pedwar adroddiad ar wahân ar wasanaethau iechyd meddwl yn Betsi Cadwaladr. Wrth gwrs, rydym yn croesawu'r ffaith bod yr adroddiad hwn wedi'i gomisiynu, ond mae'n feirniadaeth hallt o gyflymder rhewlifol y diwygiadau yn y bwrdd iechyd fod ymhell dros hanner yr 84 argymhelliad a adolygwyd i gyd wedi'u dosbarthu naill ai fel rhai oren, gan adlewyrchu rhywfaint o dystiolaeth yn unig neu dystiolaeth gymedrol o weithredu, neu goch, gan adlewyrchu ychydig neu ddim tystiolaeth o weithredu.
Mae rhai o'r diffygion mwy difrifol yn gyfarwydd iawn—er enghraifft, diffyg platfformau digidol cydgysylltiedig a chynhwysfawr ar draws y bwrdd iechyd. Wedyn ceir y gormodedd o swyddi dros dro ar lefel reoli a'r ymdeimlad o ansefydlogrwydd sydd, yn anochel, yn creu thema ailadroddus a godais mewn ymateb i'r adroddiad diweddaru ar fesurau arbennig yn Betsi Cadwaladr yn ôl ym mis Medi y llynedd a sawl gwaith wedi hynny. Y mwyaf amlwg yw diffyg nyrs ymgynghorol arbenigol â chyfrifoldeb penodol am ddementia yn y gyfarwyddiaeth iechyd meddwl ac anabledd dysgu.
Mae'r argymhellion hyn wedi bod ar waith ers o leiaf hanner degawd. Nid yw prinder amser ar gyfer gweithredu'n briodol yn esgus o gwbl. Rydym yn galw ar y Llywodraeth felly i ddarparu'r holl gymorth angenrheidiol i sicrhau y gall y bwrdd iechyd weithredu argymhellion adroddiad yr adolygiad gwasanaeth gwahoddedig yn llawn, a nodi amserlenni clir ar gyfer cyflawni hyn. Credwn hefyd fod canfyddiadau'r adolygiad hwn yn tynnu sylw at yr angen am ddatgeliad llawn a thryloywder ar ran y Llywodraeth hon ynghylch yr amgylchiadau dadleuol a arweiniodd at dynnu'r bwrdd allan o fesurau arbennig ym mis Tachwedd 2020.
Ers tro, rydym wedi bod o'r farn fod hwn yn benderfyniad cynamserol a danseiliodd waith i fynd i'r afael â phroblemau yn y bwrdd iechyd, safbwynt a atgyfnerthir gan y ffaith bod y partneriaid eraill yn y fframwaith uwchgyfeirio teirochrog, Archwilio Cymru ac Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru, wedi cadarnhau ers hynny eu bod wedi cynghori yn erbyn y cam gweithredu hwn. Am y rheswm hwn, rydym hefyd yn galw am ryddhau'r cyngor gweinidogol a lywiodd y penderfyniad hwn i'r parth cyhoeddus fel y gallwn sicrhau nad yw cynnydd a wnaed ar wella gwasanaethau yn Betsi Cadwaladr yn cael ei beryglu eto gan ystyriaethau gwleidyddol manteisgar.
Gallaf sicrhau Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet nad yw'n rhoi unrhyw bleser i ni orfod ailedrych ar y thema oesol hon o fethiannau cronig ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr. Rydym wedi blino ar y peth, a heb os nac oni bai, mae pobl gogledd Cymru wedi blino arno hefyd. Ond nes bod tystiolaeth glir fod gwelliannau'n cael eu gwneud mewn modd amserol, ein dyletswydd i staff gweithgar a chleifion Betsi Cadwaladr yw parhau i ddwyn y bwrdd a'r Llywodraeth i gyfrif. Am y rheswm hwn, rwy'n annog y Senedd i gefnogi'r cynnig.
Rwyf wedi dethol y ddau welliant i'r cynnig, ac os derbynnir gwelliant 1 bydd gwelliant gwelliant 2 yn cael ei ddad-ddethol. Y Gweinidog Iechyd Meddwl a’r Blynyddoedd Cynnar i gynnig yn ffurfiol welliant 1.
I have selected two amendments to the motion. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected. I call on the Minister for Mental Health and Early Years to formally move amendment 1.
Gwelliant 1—Jane Hutt
Dileu popeth a rhoi yn ei le:
1. Yn nodi:
a) bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi comisiynu Adroddiad Adolygiad Gwasanaeth Gwahoddedig Coleg Brenhinol y Seiciatryddion ar Wasanaethau Iechyd Meddwl ac Anabledd Dysgu ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr, i ddarparu asesiad annibynnol o'r cynnydd a wnaed ers 2013;
b) o'r 84 o argymhellion a wnaed mewn perthynas â phedwar adroddiad blaenorol, canfu Coleg Brenhinol y Seiciatryddion fod y mwyafrif helaeth wedi cael eu gweithredu;
c) bod Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr wedi derbyn adroddiad Coleg Brenhinol y Seiciatryddion yn llawn ac y bydd yn ymateb yn ffurfiol iddo yn ei gyfarfod Bwrdd nesaf; a
d) y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn parhau i gefnogi Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr i wella gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl ac anabledd dysgu yn y Gogledd fel rhan o'r ymyrraeth mesurau arbennig.
Amendment 1—Jane Hutt
Delete all and replace with:
1. Notes that:
a) the Welsh Government commissioned the Royal College of Psychiatrists’ Invited Review Services Report on Mental Health and Learning Disability Services in Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board, to provide an independent assessment of the progress made since 2013;
b) of the 84 recommendations made in relation to four previous reports, the Royal College of Psychiatrists found the vast majority had been implemented;
c) Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board has accepted the Royal College of Psychiatrists’ report in full and will formally respond to it at its next Board meeting; and
d) the Welsh Government will continue to support Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board to improve mental health and learning disability services in North Wales as part of the special measures intervention.
Cynigiwyd gwelliant 1.
Amendment 1 moved.
Formally move.
Cynnig yn ffurfiol.
Gareth Davies nawr i gynnig gwelliant 2.
I call on Gareth Davies to move amendment 2.
Gwelliant 2—Darren Millar
Ychwanegu fel is-bwynt newydd ar ddiwedd pwynt 4:
i ymddiheuro i bobl sydd wedi colli anwyliaid a chleifion sydd wedi dod i niwed o ganlyniad i argymhellion heb eu gweithredu a methiant i gyflawni gwelliannau.
Amendment 2—Darren Millar
Add as new sub-point at the end of point 4:
Issue an apology to people who have lost loved ones and patients who have come to harm as a result of recommendations not being implemented and a failure to deliver improvements.
Cynigiwyd gwelliant 2.
Amendment 2 moved.
Diolch, Llywydd. Many of us feel exasperated at the lack of improvement overall within Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board, and this report compounds the view that necessary improvements are not being made anywhere close to the pace they should be. Concerns surrounding the health board date back as far as 2009, with issues beginning to be officially recognised in 2012 when Healthcare Inspectorate Wales and the Wales Audit Office identified concerns regarding the health board's governance arrangements. It has been put in and out of special measures, with the necessary improvements never having been fully implemented. And patients of Wales's largest health board have been consistently let down.
The improvements that started to be made following the recommendations in the 2013 Holden report, both Ockenden reports and the Health and Social Care Advisory Service report halted in 2020, due to the Welsh Government removing Betsi from special measures for reasons of political expediency, which is nothing short of scandalous. The Welsh Government should be under no illusions that this is something we will forget about. We will be relentless in continuing to call for the publication of the ministerial advice that led to the decision to lift Betsi Cadwaladr out of special measures just before the 2021 Senedd elections.
The health board is not a political football or something to be swept under the rug when the election comes around. These are people's lives we are speaking about and they are routinely being failed. The Royal College of Psychiatrists invited review service report into mental health and learning disability services at Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board has demonstrated pitiful levels of progress since the recommendations were drawn up, starting in 2013. And in over 10 years, the Welsh Government has only been able to fully complete 36 per cent of the 84 recommendations, with six still categorised as red and 41 still categorised as amber.
Are we therefore to expect that this will take another 10 years before we see two thirds of the recommendations fully implemented, and another 10 years on top of that to see all recommendations implemented completely? Does that sound reasonable to the Welsh Government—three decades for recommendations of a report to be put into place?
In terms of key areas for further development, the report highlighted that there are too many interim posts, which leads to instability, and an inability to provide assurance that recommendations had been fully embedded. This is something that I and others have raised frequently. Interim posts do not work and where funding is provided it must be on a permanent basis so that the health board can offer more permanent positions. A lack of access to electronic records was also an acute concern, with the needs of older adults not being adequately represented in the management structures, which also do not allow for adequate representation of all disciplines.
I realise I'm running out of time—my remarks are longer than the time allowed—but I would just say finally that the—
Diolch, Lywydd. Mae llawer ohonom yn teimlo'n ddig ynghylch y diffyg gwelliant cyffredinol ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr, ac mae'r adroddiad hwn yn crynhoi'r farn nad oes gwelliannau angenrheidiol yn cael eu gwneud yn agos at fod yn ddigon cyflym. Mae pryderon ynghylch y bwrdd iechyd yn dyddio'n ôl cyn belled â 2009, gyda phroblemau'n dechrau cael eu cydnabod yn swyddogol yn 2012 pan nododd Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru a Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru bryderon ynghylch trefniadau llywodraethu'r bwrdd iechyd. Fe'i gwnaed yn destun mesurau arbennig a'i dynnu allan ohonynt heb i'r gwelliannau angenrheidiol gael eu gweithredu'n llawn. Ac mae cleifion bwrdd iechyd mwyaf Cymru wedi cael eu siomi'n gyson.
Daeth y gwelliannau a ddechreuodd gael eu gwneud yn dilyn yr argymhellion yn adroddiad Holden 2013, adroddiadau Ockenden ac adroddiad y Gwasanaeth Cynghori ar Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol i ben yn 2020, oherwydd bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn tynnu Betsi Cadwaladr allan o fesurau arbennig am resymau gwleidyddol, ac mae hynny'n warthus. Ni ddylai Llywodraeth Cymru fod dan unrhyw amheuaeth fod hyn yn rhywbeth y byddwn yn anghofio amdano. Byddwn yn parhau i alw am gyhoeddi'r cyngor gweinidogol a arweiniodd at y penderfyniad i dynnu Betsi Cadwaladr allan o fesurau arbennig ychydig cyn etholiadau'r Senedd yn 2021.
Nid pêl-droed wleidyddol yw'r bwrdd iechyd na rhywbeth i'w ysgubo o'r golwg pan ddaw'r etholiad. Rydym yn siarad am fywydau pobl ac maent yn cael cam yn gyson. Mae adroddiad adolygiad gwasanaeth gwahoddedig Coleg Brenhinol y Seiciatryddion ar wasanaethau iechyd meddwl ac anabledd dysgu ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr wedi dangos lefelau truenus o gynnydd ers llunio'r argymhellion, gan ddechrau yn 2013. Ac mewn dros 10 mlynedd, dim ond 36 y cant o'r 84 argymhelliad y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gallu eu cwblhau'n llawn, gyda chwech yn dal wedi eu categoreiddio fel rhai coch a 41 yn dal wedi eu categoreiddio fel rhai oren.
A ydym yn disgwyl felly y bydd yn cymryd 10 mlynedd arall cyn inni weld dwy ran o dair o'r argymhellion yn cael eu gweithredu'n llawn, a 10 mlynedd arall ar ben hynny i weld yr holl argymhellion yn cael eu gweithredu'n gyfan gwbl? A yw hynny'n swnio'n rhesymol i Lywodraeth Cymru—tri degawd i argymhellion adroddiad gael eu rhoi ar waith?
Ar feysydd allweddol ar gyfer datblygu pellach, nododd yr adroddiad fod gormod o swyddi dros dro, sy'n arwain at ansefydlogrwydd, ac anallu i roi sicrwydd fod argymhellion wedi gwreiddio'n llawn. Mae hyn yn rhywbeth yr wyf i ac eraill wedi'i godi'n aml. Nid yw swyddi dros dro yn gweithio a phan ddarperir cyllid, rhaid iddo fod yn barhaol fel y gall y bwrdd iechyd gynnig swyddi mwy parhaol. Roedd diffyg mynediad at gofnodion electronig hefyd yn bryder difrifol, gydag anghenion oedolion hŷn heb eu cynrychioli'n ddigonol yn y strwythurau rheoli, nad ydynt ychwaith yn caniatáu ar gyfer cynrychiolaeth ddigonol i bob disgyblaeth.
Rwy'n sylweddoli fy mod yn brin o amser—mae fy sylwadau'n hirach na'r amser a ganiateir—ond hoffwn ddweud yn olaf fod y—
Thank you for drawing my attention to that, though. [Laughter.]
Diolch am dynnu fy sylw at hynny. [Chwerthin.]
I do apologise. I see the red flash up and I think, 'Gosh, Gareth, you've gone on too long here, mate'.
And finally, the Welsh Government should show contrition for removing Betsi from special measures in 2020, admit that this was the wrong decision that was against the recommendations at the time, and publish the advice given to Ministers as to why they believed the health board should have been pulled from special measures before the Senedd elections in 2021—very convenient.
Rwy'n ymddiheuro. Rwy'n gweld y fflach goch ac rwy'n meddwl, 'Mawredd, Gareth, rwyt ti wedi bod wrthi'n rhy hir'.
Ac yn olaf, dylai Llywodraeth Cymru ddangos edifeirwch ynglŷn â thynnu Betsi Cadwaladr o fesurau arbennig yn 2020, cyfaddef mai dyma'r penderfyniad anghywir a oedd yn mynd yn groes i'r argymhellion ar y pryd, a chyhoeddi'r cyngor a roddwyd i Weinidogion pam eu bod yn credu y dylai'r bwrdd iechyd fod wedi cael ei dynnu o fesurau arbennig cyn etholiadau'r Senedd yn 2021—cyfleus iawn.
Mi oeddwn i'n bryderus ac yn siomedig o ddarllen gwelliant y Llywodraeth i gynnig Plaid Cymru, gwelliant sydd yn honni bod y mwyafrif o'r argymhellion wedi cael eu cyflawni. Yn anffodus, dydy hynny ddim yn wir oherwydd o'r 84 argymhelliad unigol gafodd eu hadolygu gan Goleg Brenhinol y Seiciatryddion ar draws y pedwar adroddiad, mae ychydig dros hanner ohonyn nhw yn felyn, 41 yn felyn neu'n ambr, ac mae chwech yn goch.
Rydyn ni'n gwybod beth ydy ystyr coch, ond mae ambr neu felyn hefyd yn broblemus, yn adlewyrchiad mai dim ond lefel gymhedrol o dystiolaeth sydd ar gael i ddangos fod yr argmhelliad wedi ei weithredu. Cyfanswm, felly, o 47 sydd ddim wedi eu cwblhau yn gyflawn, sy’n gadael 37 sydd wedi eu cwblhau neu sy'n wyrdd. Dydy 37 ddim yn fwyafrif o 84, o bell ffordd, ac efallai gall yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet gyfiawnhau defnyddio'r term 'mwyafrif' ar gyfer ffigwr sydd yn llai na hanner, mewn gwirionedd.
Mae’r Llywodraeth i’w chanmol am gomisiynu’r adolygiad yma yn y lle cyntaf, ond mae'n rhaid i’r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet dderbyn y canfyddiadau, does bosib. Dydy’r canfyddiadau ddim yn dda. Mae llawer iawn o waith i’w wneud eto, ac mae etholwyr yn dal i ddioddef dros 10 mlynedd ers adroddiad Holden, dros 10 mlynedd ers cau Tawel Fan.
Mae bwrdd iechyd y gogledd wedi cael cyfle i drafod yr adroddiad ac wedi cytuno bod angen ystyriaeth bellach o ganfyddiadau’r adolygiad, ac mi fydd y bwrdd, yn ôl beth dwi'n ei ddeall, yn ymateb yn ffurfiol iddo fo ac yn ei drafod o eto yn eu cyfarfod nesaf ym mis Gorffennaf. Mae darllen yr adroddiad yn sobreddiol, ac mi fuaswn i yn hoffi tynnu sylw at dri mater o flaenoriaeth y buaswn i'n gofyn i aelodau’r bwrdd ac i’r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet roi sylw penodol iddyn nhw. Yn gyntaf, a dwi'n dyfynnu o’r adroddiad,
I was concerned and disappointed to read the Government's amendment to Plaid Cymru's motion, an amendment that claims that that the majority of the recommendations have been implemented. Unfortunately, that's just not true, because of the 84 individual recommendations that were reviewed by the Royal College of Psychiatrists across the four reports, just over half of them are yellow, 41 are yellow or amber, and six are red.
We know what red means, but amber is also problematic. It's a reflection that there is only a moderate level of evidence available to show that the recommendation has been implemented. A total of 47 recommendations, therefore, that have not been fully completed. That leaves 37 that have been completed or are green. Now, 37 is not a majority of 84, by any means, and perhaps the Cabinet Secretary can justify using the term 'majority' to describe a figure that is actually less than half.
The Government is to be commended for commissioning this review in the first place, but the Cabinet Secretary must surely accept the findings. Those findings are not good. There is a great deal of work still to be done, and constituents are still suffering more than 10 years since the Holden report, more than 10 years since the closure of Tawel Fan.
The north Wales health board has had an opportunity to discuss the report, and it is agreed that further consideration of the findings of the review is needed, and a formal response will be drawn up and discussed at the next board meeting in July. The report makes for sobering reading, and I would like to draw attention to three matters of priority that I would ask the board members and the Cabinet Secretary to pay particular attention to. First, and I quote from the report,
'The review team recommend that urgent attention is given to ensuring that all remedial works necessary to ensure patient safety are completed, and this particularly applies to ligature risks.'
'Mae'r tîm adolygu yn argymell rhoi sylw brys i sicrhau bod yr holl waith adferol sy'n angenrheidiol i sicrhau diogelwch cleifion yn cael ei gwblhau, ac mae hyn yn arbennig o berthnasol i risgiau crogi.'
Yn ail:
Secondly:
'A consultant nurse with specific responsibility for dementia within the directorate had not been appointed. The review team was concerned about the lack of psychological input and multidisciplinary working in the Hergest unit.'
'Ni phenodwyd nyrs ymgynghorol â chyfrifoldeb penodol am ddementia yn y gyfarwyddiaeth. Roedd y tîm adolygu'n pryderu ynghylch diffyg mewnbwn seicolegol a gweithio amlddisgyblaethol yn uned Hergest.'
Ac yn drydydd:
And thirdly:
'The large number of interim posts was a particular concern to the review team, who were not clear that there was full multidisciplinary input at a senior management level'.
'Roedd y nifer fawr o swyddi dros dro yn bryder arbennig i'r tîm adolygu, nad oeddent yn glir fod mewnbwn amlddisgyblaethol llawn ar lefel uwch reolwyr'.
Mae'r rheini yn ganfyddiadau sydd yn peri dychryn a siom, onid ydyn? Ac maen nhw yn faterion sylweddol sydd angen eu datrys, heb sôn am yr holl faterion eraill hefyd sydd wedi dod i'r amlwg yn sgil yr adolygiad yma. Mae angen iddyn nhw gael eu datrys, mae angen iddyn nhw gael eu datrys ar frys, ac mae'n rhaid inni weld cynnydd buan.
Those are findings that are terrifying and disappointing, aren't they? And they are significant issues that need to be resolved, never mind the other issues that have emerged in the wake of this review. They need to be resolved, they need to be resolved urgently, and we need to see progress quickly.
Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair.
The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair.
Galwaf ar y Gweinidog Iechyd Meddwl a'r Blynyddoedd Cynnar, Jayne Bryant.
I call the Minister for Mental Health and Early Years, Jayne Bryant.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I want to start by apologising to everyone who has received care from Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board that falls below the high standards we set for the NHS in Wales. We take this very seriously and are continuing to work with the board and the thousands of staff in north Wales to raise standards and the quality of care. A succession of reports and reviews have rightly exposed these failings, and, through the special measures intervention, we are working with the health board to make sure that services, staff and systems are in place so that mental health and learning disability services remain safe and help rebuild public confidence. That's why this independent review, commissioned by the Welsh Government, has been so important.
The health board has shown its commitment to learn from the past, has apologised, and is engaging with families who have experience of its services. Copies of this report were shared with families, and they were offered an opportunity to share their views with the health board at the end of May. I am meeting the health board later this month—next week, in fact—and it will be the first in a series of quarterly meetings. I'll be setting out my expectations for improvement and for the need for clear and robust evidence of progress being made.
It is important to recognise that leadership and management of these services is improving. The vice-chair is providing leadership at board level, supported by a newly appointed executive director for mental health and therapies. I want to take this opportunity to thank the Royal College of Psychiatrists for its work in completing this review. Overall, it shows that progress has been made in taking forward the recommendations from the four previous reports, but there is clearly more to do. [Interruption.] Yes.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwyf am ddechrau drwy ymddiheuro i bawb sydd wedi cael gofal gan Fwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr sy'n is na'r safonau uchel a osodwyd gennym ar gyfer y GIG yng Nghymru. Rydym o ddifrif ynglŷn â hyn ac yn parhau i weithio gyda'r bwrdd a'r miloedd o staff yng ngogledd Cymru i godi safonau ac ansawdd gofal. Mae cyfres o adroddiadau ac adolygiadau wedi datgelu'r methiannau hyn, ac yn briodol felly, a thrwy ymyrraeth mesurau arbennig, rydym yn gweithio gyda'r bwrdd iechyd i sicrhau bod gwasanaethau, staff a systemau ar waith fel bod gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl ac anabledd dysgu yn parhau i fod yn ddiogel ac i helpu i ailadeiladu hyder y cyhoedd. Dyna pam mae'r adolygiad annibynnol hwn, a gomisiynwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru, wedi bod mor bwysig.
Mae'r bwrdd iechyd wedi dangos ei ymrwymiad i ddysgu o'r gorffennol, wedi ymddiheuro, ac mae'n ymgysylltu â theuluoedd sydd â phrofiad o'i wasanaethau. Rhannwyd copïau o'r adroddiad hwn gyda theuluoedd, a chynigiwyd cyfle iddynt rannu eu barn gyda'r bwrdd iechyd ddiwedd mis Mai. Rwy'n cyfarfod â'r bwrdd iechyd yn ddiweddarach y mis hwn—yr wythnos nesaf, mewn gwirionedd—a hwn fydd y cyntaf mewn cyfres o gyfarfodydd chwarterol. Byddaf yn nodi fy nisgwyliadau ar gyfer gwella ac am yr angen am dystiolaeth glir a chadarn o'r cynnydd a wneir.
Mae'n bwysig cydnabod bod arweinyddiaeth a rheolaeth ar y gwasanaethau hyn yn gwella. Mae'r is-gadeirydd yn darparu arweinyddiaeth ar lefel y bwrdd, gyda chefnogaeth y cyfarwyddwr gweithredol newydd a benodwyd ar gyfer iechyd meddwl a therapïau. Hoffwn fanteisio ar y cyfle hwn i ddiolch i Goleg Brenhinol y Seiciatryddion am ei waith yn cwblhau'r adolygiad hwn. At ei gilydd, mae'n dangos bod cynnydd wedi'i wneud wrth fwrw ymlaen ag argymhellion y pedwar adroddiad blaenorol, ond mae'n amlwg fod mwy i'w wneud. [Torri ar draws.] Iawn.
Thanks. You say that the vice-chair is taking responsibility, but in the last board meeting the vice-chair admitted that they didn't have the speciality and the skills required in order to understand fully the problems. So, do you not agree with part of, at least, our motion, that we need a specialist nurse or specialist individual on the board that can lead on mental health so that we have assurances that they are learning and improving on the delivery of mental health services?
Diolch. Rydych yn dweud bod yr is-gadeirydd yn cymryd cyfrifoldeb, ond yn y cyfarfod bwrdd diwethaf fe gyfaddefodd yr is-gadeirydd nad oedd ganddynt yr arbenigedd na'r sgiliau angenrheidiol i ddeall y problemau'n llawn. Felly, onid ydych chi'n cytuno â rhan o'n cynnig, o leiaf, ein bod angen nyrs arbenigol neu unigolyn arbenigol ar y bwrdd a all arwain ar iechyd meddwl fel bod gennym sicrwydd eu bod yn dysgu ac yn gwella'r modd y caiff gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl eu darparu?
As I said, I'm going to see the health board next week and I'll be meeting with the vice-chair and I'll be seeing for myself and being able to speak with the health board and the vice-chair. And, as I said, this will be the first of many quarterly meetings, so I will be monitoring progress very closely at those meetings.
The original reports were completed some years ago, and some of their recommendations may have been superceded by changes in clinical practice or by changes the health board has made to services. It would not be fair to criticise the health board for failing to implement a change that is no longer considered clinically appropriate or relevant, but it is disappointing that there is little or no evidence of implementation against six of the recommendations, and despite some of the evidence of progress, many of the recommendations are not as advanced as they should be at this stage. I expect the health board to prioritise recommendations that will have the greatest impact on the safety of its services. The health board has committed to ensuring Llais and patients are actively engaged with services' redesign and to listening to their views. The new board have started to do this well, and I'll be asking Llais to update me on this twice a year.
Over the past year, there have been two independent safety assessments of mental health and learning disability in-patient settings by the National Collaborative Commissioning Unit and the NHS executive. Both have identified examples of good practice and improvements, but they've also highlighted areas where further improvements are required. Recent Healthcare Inspectorate Wales inspections of mental health and learning disability services have also identified positive changes and improved patient safety and experience. We're expecting to receive a full business case of the new in-patient mental health unit on the Ysbyty Glan Clwyd site early next year, which is likely to require a significant capital investment of excess of £80 million. We will work with the health board to ensure it also has a robust plan in place to ensure a sustainable workforce for the unit can be achieved. In addition, a comprehensive programme of work has been agreed as part of the special measures intervention, and I'll also be making site visits to mental health settings in north Wales over the next couple of months to gain a direct perspective on how services are working. We will continue to support the health board to improve mental health and learning disability services and rebuild people's confidence in mental health services across north Wales. Diolch.
Fel y dywedais, byddaf yn gweld y bwrdd iechyd yr wythnos nesaf, byddaf yn cyfarfod â'r is-gadeirydd a byddaf yn gweld drosof fy hun, ac yn gallu siarad â'r bwrdd iechyd a'r is-gadeirydd. Ac fel y dywedais, hwn fydd y cyfarfod cyntaf o lawer o gyfarfodydd chwarterol, felly byddaf yn monitro cynnydd yn agos iawn yn y cyfarfodydd hynny.
Cwblhawyd yr adroddiadau gwreiddiol rai blynyddoedd yn ôl, ac efallai fod rhai o'u hargymhellion wedi cael eu disodli gan newidiadau mewn ymarfer clinigol neu gan newidiadau y mae'r bwrdd iechyd wedi'u gwneud i wasanaethau. Ni fyddai'n deg beirniadu'r bwrdd iechyd am fethu gweithredu newid nad yw bellach yn cael ei ystyried yn berthnasol neu'n briodol yn glinigol, ond mae'n siomedig nad oes fawr ddim tystiolaeth o weithredu yn erbyn chwech o'r argymhellion, ac er gwaethaf rhywfaint o dystiolaeth o gynnydd, mae llawer o'r argymhellion heb eu datblygu cymaint ag y dylent fod ar y cam hwn. Rwy'n disgwyl i'r bwrdd iechyd flaenoriaethu argymhellion a fydd yn cael yr effaith fwyaf ar ddiogelwch ei wasanaethau. Mae'r bwrdd iechyd wedi ymrwymo i sicrhau bod Llais a chleifion yn cymryd rhan weithredol yn y gwaith o ailgynllunio gwasanaethau ac wedi ymrwymo i wrando ar eu barn. Mae'r bwrdd newydd wedi dechrau gwneud hyn yn dda, a byddaf yn gofyn i Llais roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i mi am hyn ddwywaith y flwyddyn.
Dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, cynhaliwyd dau asesiad diogelwch annibynnol o leoliadau cleifion mewnol iechyd meddwl ac anableddau dysgu gan yr Uned Gomisiynu Cydweithredol Genedlaethol a gweithrediaeth y GIG. Mae'r ddau wedi nodi enghreifftiau o arferion da a gwelliannau, ond maent hefyd wedi tynnu sylw at feysydd lle mae angen gwelliannau pellach. Mae arolygiadau diweddar Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru o wasanaethau iechyd meddwl ac anableddau dysgu hefyd wedi nodi newidiadau cadarnhaol a diogelwch a phrofiad gwell i gleifion. Rydym yn disgwyl derbyn achos busnes llawn o'r uned iechyd meddwl newydd i gleifion mewnol ar safle Ysbyty Glan Clwyd yn gynnar y flwyddyn nesaf, sy'n debygol o alw am fuddsoddiad cyfalaf sylweddol o fwy na £80 miliwn. Byddwn yn gweithio gyda'r bwrdd iechyd i sicrhau bod ganddo gynllun cadarn ar waith hefyd i sicrhau y gellir cyflawni gweithlu cynaliadwy ar gyfer yr uned. Yn ogystal, cytunwyd ar raglen waith gynhwysfawr fel rhan o'r ymyrraeth mesurau arbennig, a byddaf yn ymweld hefyd â lleoliadau iechyd meddwl yng ngogledd Cymru dros y misoedd nesaf i gael persbectif uniongyrchol ar sut mae gwasanaethau'n gweithio. Byddwn yn parhau i gefnogi'r bwrdd iechyd i wella gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl ac anableddau dysgu ac ailadeiladu hyder pobl yn y gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl ledled gogledd Cymru. Diolch.
Galwaf ar Llyr Gruffydd i ymateb i'r ddadl.
I call on Llyr Gruffydd to reply to the debate.
Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. Gaf i ddiolch i bawb sydd wedi cyfrannu i'r ddadl yma? Mae'n siomedig bod yna ddim Aelodau o'r gogledd o'r grŵp Llafur wedi cyfrannu, ond dwi yn diolch i'r Gweinidog am ei sylwadau. Mae hi'n dweud ei bod hi'n gweithio gyda'r bwrdd. Mae'n drueni bod y Llywodraeth ddim yn barod i weithio gyda'r cynnig sydd o'n blaenau ni heddiw, oherwydd ein nod ni drwy gyflwyno'r cynnig yma oedd trio creu rhyw fath o gonsensws trawsbleidiol o gwmpas canfyddiadau'r adroddiad, er mwyn efallai bod yn foment lle mae'n drobwynt o safbwynt y bwrdd iechyd yn y maes iechyd meddwl yma. Oherwydd, ar ôl blynyddoedd o gamreoli, o gamweithredu, mae methiannau o fewn y bwrdd yn rhy aml dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf wedi cael eu normaleiddio.
Nawr, mae rhywun yn gobeithio bod yna gornel yn cael ei droi o dan yr arweinyddiaeth newydd o fewn y bwrdd, ond, yn anffodus, fel rŷn ni wedi clywed gan dri o'r siaradwyr yn y ddadl yma, mae dehongliad y Llywodraeth o'r adolygiad yn dangos amharodrwydd brawychus ar eu rhan nhw i dderbyn a chydnabod graddfa'r broblem. Mae'r gwelliant sydd wedi cael ei osod gan y Llywodraeth yn dileu'r cyfan o'n cynnig gwreiddiol ni, ac wedyn, fel rŷn ni wedi clywed, yn datgan bod mwyafrif llethol—gair am air—mwyafrif llethol yr 84 argymhelliad 'wedi cael eu gweithredu', er bod y dystiolaeth yn dangos yn glir bod mwy na hanner yr argymhellion naill ai wedi'u categoreiddio'n felyn neu'n goch, hynny yw heb eu gweithredu—heb eu gweithredu.
Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. Mae I thank everyone who has contributed to this debate? It's disappointing that no Members from north Wales in the Labour group contributed, but I do thank the Minister for her comments. She says that she is working with the board. It's a shame that the Government isn't willing to work with the motion before us today, because our aim in tabling this motion was to try and create some cross-party consensus around the findings of the report, so that perhaps it could be a moment where there's a turning point for the health board in mental health services. Because, after years of mismanagement and malpractice, failings within the board too often over recent years have been normalised.
Now, one would hope that the corner is being turned under the new leadership within the board, but, unfortunately, as we've heard from three contributors to this debate, the Government's interpretation of the review shows a shocking unwillingness for them to accept the scale of the problem. The amendment laid by Government deletes all of our motion, and then, as we've heard, states that the 'vast majority'—word for word—the 'vast majority' of the 84 recommendations 'had been implemented', although the evidence shows clearly that more than half of those recommendations are either categorised as amber or red. Namely, they haven't been implemented. They have not been implemented.
So, here we are, back in Labour's Betsi Cadwaladr parallel—if I can even say it—universe. It's the same parallel universe, isn't it, as the one that told them that it was fine to take Betsi out of special measures in the first place, despite the advice of Audit Wales, Health Inspectorate Wales and others. Placing mental health services in Betsi, on a sustainable footing, is a collective responsibility, yes, and a range of different stakeholders have an important part to play, but the Government has to lead on this, and has to lead from the front, and you can't do that unless you accept that the scale of the problem—[Interruption.] Your amendment? You can't—
Felly, dyma ni, yn ôl ym mydysawd cyfochrog Betsi Cadwaladr y Blaid Lafur. Yr un bydysawd cyfochrog â'r un a ddywedodd wrthynt ei bod hi'n iawn i dynnu Betsi Cadwaladr allan o fesurau arbennig yn y lle cyntaf, er gwaethaf cyngor Archwilio Cymru, Arolygiaeth Iechyd Cymru ac eraill. Mae gosod gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl Betsi Cadwaladr ar sail gynaliadwy yn gyfrifoldeb ar y cyd, ydy, ac mae gan ystod o randdeiliaid gwahanol ran bwysig i'w chwarae, ond mae'n rhaid i'r Llywodraeth arwain ar hyn, ac mae'n rhaid i chi arwain o'r tu blaen, ac ni allwch wneud hynny oni bai eich bod yn derbyn bod maint y broblem—[Torri ar draws.] Eich gwelliant? Ni allwch—
We commissioned the report.
Ni a gomisiynodd yr adroddiad.
Yes, well, accept the recommendation—. Are you sticking to your amendment that the 'vast majority' of the recommendations have been implemented? Because they haven't. I will give way to Mark Isherwood.
Ie, wel, derbyniwch yr argymhelliad—. A ydych chi'n glynu at eich gwelliant fod 'mwyafrif helaeth' yr argymhellion wedi cael eu gweithredu? Oherwydd nid yw hynny'n wir. Rwy'n fodlon ildio i Mark Isherwood.
Don't you agree that, in order to draw a line under this and go forward, the Welsh Government also need to apologise to the families of the victims, especially given the denials over many years that there had been institutional abuse and that there's now been a Nursing and Midwifery Council striking-off order against a nurse who's been found guilty of abusive conduct on that ward?
Onid ydych chi'n cytuno, er mwyn tynnu llinell o dan hyn a symud ymlaen, fod angen i Lywodraeth Cymru ymddiheuro hefyd i deuluoedd y dioddefwyr, yn enwedig o ystyried y gwadu a fu dros nifer o flynyddoedd fod cam-drin sefydliadol wedi digwydd a bod gorchymyn wedi'i wneud gan y Cyngor Nyrsio a Bydwreigiaeth nawr i dynnu nyrs oddi ar y gofrestr ar ôl eu cael yn euog o ymddygiad ymosodol ar y ward honno?
In a word, Mark, 'yes'. Now, this amendment—[Interruption.] Yes, and you can make that point. The Minister's making the point that she has apologised. This amendment will just simply reinforce people's perception, across north Wales, that the Government is simply out of touch when it comes to this issue. So, please, consider very carefully what kind of message it will send if this amendment is passed. We have to treat this review with the seriousness that it deserves and not risk another decade of lost opportunities and recommendations for reform being left to linger, and it's for that reason that Plaid Cymru urges Members of this Senedd to support our motion. Diolch.
Mewn gair, Mark, 'ydw'. Nawr, y gwelliant hwn—[Torri ar draws.] Ie, a gallwch wneud y pwynt hwnnw. Mae'r Gweinidog yn gwneud y pwynt ei bod wedi ymddiheuro. Ni fydd y gwelliant hwn ond yn atgyfnerthu canfyddiad pobl, ledled gogledd Cymru, fod y Llywodraeth wedi colli gafael ar y mater. Felly, ystyriwch yn ofalus iawn pa fath o neges y bydd yn ei hanfon os caiff y gwelliant hwn ei dderbyn. Mae'n rhaid inni drin yr adolygiad hwn gyda'r difrifoldeb y mae'n ei haeddu a pheidio â mentro degawd arall o golli cyfleoedd, ac argymhellion ar gyfer diwygio'n cael eu hanwybyddu, ac am y rheswm hwnnw mae Plaid Cymru yn annog Aelodau'r Senedd hon i gefnogi ein cynnig. Diolch.
Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Oes. Felly gohirir y bleidlais ar yr eitem hon tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there are objections. I will defer voting under this item until voting time.
Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Voting deferred until voting time.
Eitem 9 sydd nesaf.
Item 9 is next.
But I notice the Cabinet Secretary is not present at this moment in time, so can we suspend the meeting for five minutes to ensure that we get the Member here to respond to the debate?
Ond rwy'n sylwi nad yw Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn bresennol ar hyn o bryd, felly a gawn ni atal y cyfarfod am bum munud i sicrhau ein bod yn cael yr Aelod yma i ymateb i'r ddadl?
Ataliwyd y Cyfarfod Llawn am 17:37.
Ailymgynullodd y Senedd am 17:40, gyda'r Dirprwy Lywydd yn y Gadair.
Plenary was suspended at 17:37.
The Senedd reconvened at 17:40, with the Deputy Presiding Officer in the Chair.
Detholwyd y gwelliannau canlynol: gwelliant 1 yn enw Jane Hutt, a gwelliant 2 yn enw Darren Millar.
The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Jane Hutt, and amendment 2 in the name of Darren Millar.
Croeso nôl. Yr eitem nesaf yw dadl Plaid Cymru: polisi cynllunio ar gyfer llinellau pŵer newydd. Galwaf ar Adam Price i wneud y cynnig.
Welcome back. The next item is the Plaid Cymru debate: planning policy for new power lines. I call on Adam Price to move the motion.
Cynnig NDM8605 Heledd Fychan
Cynnig bod y Senedd:
1. Yn cydnabod y safbwynt a ffefrir gan Lywodraeth Cymru, sef y dylid gosod llinellau pŵer newydd o dan y ddaear lle y bo'n bosibl.
2. Yn credu, lle bynnag y bo hynny'n bosibl, pan fo llinellau pŵer newydd yn cael eu gosod o dan y ddaear y dylid ei wneud drwy ddull aredig ceblau yn hytrach na chloddio ffos agored.
3. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i ddiweddaru paragraff 5.7.9 o Bolisi Cynllunio Cymru:
a) i ddileu’r cafeat presennol: ‘Fodd bynnag, cydnabyddir bod angen cymryd safbwynt cytbwys o ran costau, a allai olygu bod prosiectau a fyddai’n dderbyniol fel arall, yn anhyfyw’; a
b) er mwyn sicrhau bod gosod seilwaith trawsyrru trydan newydd o dan y ddaear yn ofyniad absoliwt yn hytrach na safbwynt a ffefrir, dylai'r polisi nodi: 'dylid gosod llinellau pŵer newydd o dan y ddaear.'
Motion NDM8605 Heledd Fychan
To propose that the Senedd:
1. Recognises the preferred position of the Welsh Government that new power lines should be placed underground where possible.
2. Believes that wherever physically possible the undergrounding of new power lines shall be undertaken by way of cable ploughing in preference to open trenching.
3. Calls on the Welsh Government to update Planning Policy Wales paragraph 5.7.9:
a) to remove the existing caveat: ‘however it is recognised that a balanced view must be taken against costs which would render otherwise acceptable projects unviable’; and
b) so that the undergrounding of new infrastructure for conveying electricity shall be an absolute rather than a preferred position, the policy should state: ‘New power lines should be laid underground.’
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. This motion aims to make it mandatory for all new electricity distribution lines in Wales to be placed underground rather than conveyed through overhead lines. The Welsh Government's current policy, as set out it in 'Planning Policy Wales', is that new power lines, where possible, should be laid underground. It goes on to say:
'However, it is recognised that a balanced view must be taken against costs which could render otherwise acceptable projects unviable.'
This caveat has been the catalyst for a rash of proposals for long-range pylon lines traversing large swathes of our country—in my own constituency's case, along both the Towy and the Teifi valleys. That in itself is evidence that the current policy is not working. The second piece of evidence is the lack of undergrounding currently, despite that being the Government's stated preference. In an answer to a recent written question by Cefin Campbell, asking if the Government can give specific examples where electricity lines have been undergrounded, the answer was that the Welsh Government is not aware of any specific examples of electric cable undergrounding at this time. As long as the caveat exists, developers will always exploit it and build pylons as their preferred option. So, we need to remove the caveat and mandate undergrounding, following the example of other European countries. Since 2008, for example, all new 132 kV power lines in Denmark have been laid underground, and it has reaped the benefits of a more rapid path to decarbonisation, as public opposition to renewables has been much more muted as a result.
So, apart from helping us decarbonise faster, why else should we in Wales follow Denmark's example? The most obvious reason is that underground cables do not despoil the landscape of some of the most cherished and environmentally sensitive areas of our country. The sheer volume of e-mails that Members will have had in support of this motion is testament to the extent this passionate conviction is shared by our fellow citizens. But there are other benefits too. Underground cables are more reliable, with reduced power outages improving grid resilience, because they are less susceptible to weather-related disruptions such as storms and high winds—a phenomenon that will become more important in future as climate change-induced extreme weather increases. Underground cables have lower maintenance costs, because they're protected from the elements, and require fewer repairs, and they are often more energy efficient as they can have lower transmission losses due to better thermal management.
The major argument against underground cabling—that it is prohibitively more costly in construction—no longer holds true because of major innovations in cable technology and in construction methods, and my colleague Cefin Campbell will refer in greater detail to trenchless cable ploughing, in which Wales and Carmarthenshire is a technology leader, in his concluding remarks.
It's welcome that the Government has announced a review in this area, and maybe that is in itself a recognition that the policy needs to be changed. But if we want to prevent the kind of mass pylonisation that much of our country is currently facing, then we can't afford to wait for the outcome of that review. We have to act now, which is why I hope Members across the Senedd will support the motion and reject the Government amendment.
Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Nod y cynnig hwn yw ei gwneud yn orfodol i bob llinell ddosbarthu trydan newydd yng Nghymru gael ei gosod o dan y ddaear yn hytrach na'i drawsyrru drwy linellau uwchben. Polisi cyfredol Llywodraeth Cymru, fel y'i nodir yn 'Polisi Cynllunio Cymru', yw y dylid gosod llinellau pŵer newydd o dan y ddaear, lle bynnag y bo hynny'n bosibl. Mae'n parhau:
'Fodd bynnag, cydnabyddir bod angen cymryd safbwynt cytbwys o ran costau, a allai olygu bod prosiectau a fyddai'n dderbyniol fel arall, yn anhyfyw.'
Mae'r cafeat hwn wedi bod yn gatalydd i lif o gynigion ar gyfer llinellau peilon hir sy'n croesi rhannau helaeth o'n gwlad—yn achos fy etholaeth fy hun, ar hyd dyffrynnoedd Tywi a Theifi. Mae hynny ynddo'i hun yn dystiolaeth nad yw'r polisi presennol yn gweithio. Yr ail ddarn o dystiolaeth yw'r diffyg llinellau tanddaearol ar hyn o bryd, er mai dyna yw dewis datganedig y Llywodraeth. Mewn ateb i gwestiwn ysgrifenedig yn ddiweddar gan Cefin Campbell, yn gofyn i'r Llywodraeth roi enghreifftiau penodol lle mae ceblau trydan wedi'u gosod o dan y ddaear, dywedwyd nad oedd Llywodraeth Cymru yn ymwybodol o unrhyw enghreifftiau penodol o linellau trydan yn cael eu gosod o dan y ddaear ar hyn o bryd. Cyn belled â bod y cafeat yn bodoli, bydd datblygwyr bob amser yn manteisio arno ac yn adeiladu peilonau fel eu dewis cyntaf. Felly, mae angen i ni gael gwared ar y cafeat a'u gorfodi i osod llinellau o dan y ddaear, gan ddilyn esiampl gwledydd Ewropeaidd eraill. Ers 2008, er enghraifft, gosodwyd pob llinell bŵer 132 kV newydd yn Nenmarc o dan y ddaear, ac mae wedi elwa ar lwybr cyflymach tuag at ddatgarboneiddio, gan fod gwrthwynebiad cyhoeddus i ynni adnewyddadwy wedi bod yn llawer tawelach o ganlyniad.
Felly, ar wahân i'n helpu i ddatgarboneiddio'n gyflymach, pam arall y dylem ni yng Nghymru ddilyn esiampl Denmarc? Y rheswm mwyaf amlwg yw oherwydd nad yw ceblau tanddaearol yn difetha tirwedd rhai o ardaloedd mwyaf annwyl ac amgylcheddol sensitif ein gwlad. Mae'r nifer fawr o negeseuon e-bost y bydd Aelodau wedi'u cael i gefnogi'r cynnig hwn yn dyst i'r graddau y mae ein cyd-ddinasyddion yn teimlo'n angerddol ynglŷn â hyn. Ond mae yna fuddion eraill hefyd. Mae ceblau tanddaearol yn fwy dibynadwy, gyda llai o doriadau pŵer yn gwella gwytnwch y grid, oherwydd eu bod yn llai agored i amhariadau'n gysylltiedig â'r tywydd fel stormydd a gwyntoedd cryf—ffenomen a fydd yn dod yn bwysicach yn y dyfodol gyda mwy o dywydd eithafol wedi'i achosi gan newid hinsawdd. Mae gan geblau tanddaearol gostau cynnal a chadw is, oherwydd eu bod wedi eu diogelu rhag yr elfennau, ac mae angen llai o waith atgyweirio arnynt, ac yn aml, maent yn fwy effeithlon o ran ynni oherwydd bod llai o golledion wrth drawsyrru trydan o ganlyniad i well rheolaeth thermol.
Nid yw'r ddadl fawr yn erbyn ceblau tanddaearol—eu bod yn debygol o fod yn fwy costus i'w hadeiladu—yn dal dŵr bellach oherwydd arloesi mawr mewn technoleg ceblau a dulliau adeiladu, a bydd fy nghyd-Aelod, Cefin Campbell, yn cyfeirio'n fanylach yn ei sylwadau i gloi at aredig ceblau heb orfod torri ffos, maes lle mae Cymru a sir Gaerfyrddin yn arwain y dechnoleg.
Mae'n dda fod y Llywodraeth wedi cyhoeddi adolygiad yn y maes hwn, ac efallai fod hynny ynddo'i hun yn gydnabyddiaeth fod angen newid y polisi. Ond os ydym eisiau atal y gosod peilonau ar raddfa fawr y mae llawer o'n gwlad yn ei wynebu ar hyn o bryd, ni allwn fforddio aros am ganlyniad yr adolygiad hwnnw. Rhaid inni weithredu nawr, a dyna pam y gobeithiaf y bydd Aelodau ar draws y Senedd yn cefnogi'r cynnig ac yn gwrthod gwelliant y Llywodraeth.
Rwyf wedi dethol y ddau welliant i'r cynnig. Galwaf ar Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Lywodraeth Leol, Tai a Chynllunio i gynnig yn ffurfiol welliant 1.
I have selected the two amendments to the motion. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Housing, Local Government and Planning to move formally amendment 1, tabled in the name of Jane Hutt.
Gwelliant 1—Jane Hutt
Dileu popeth ar ôl pwynt 1 a rhoi yn ei le:
2. Yn credu, lle bynnag y bo’n ffisegol bosibl, y dylai llinellau pŵer newydd gael eu gosod o dan y ddaear mewn modd sy’n lleihau effeithiau amgylcheddol andwyol.
Amendment 1—Jane Hutt
Delete all after point 1 and replace with:
2. Believes that wherever physically possible the undergrounding of new power lines shall be undertaken in ways which reduce adverse environmental impacts.
Cynigiwyd gwelliant 1.
Amendment 1 moved.
Formally.
Yn ffurfiol.
A galwaf ar Mark Isherwood i gynnig gwelliant 2, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar.
And I call on Mark Isherwood to move amendment 2, tabled in the name of Darren Millar.
Gwelliant 2—Darren Millar
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau, yn unol â'r egwyddor ragofalus, y dylid cynnal asesiadau effaith ar iechyd gyda chynigion i osod llinellau pŵer newydd o dan y ddaear pan fydd eu hagosrwydd at gartrefi yn codi pryderon iechyd difrifol yn y dyfodol.
Amendment 2—Darren Millar
Add as new point at end of motion:
Calls on the Welsh Government to ensure that, in accordance with the precautionary principle, proposals for the undergrounding of new power lines should require health impact assessments when their proximity to dwellings raises serious future health concerns.
Cynigiwyd gwelliant 2.
Amendment 2 moved.
Diolch. Undergrounding cables providing electrical power or telecommunications, rather than hanging them on poles or towers, helps improve system reliability and to reduce the risks of outages during high winds, thunderstorms, heavy snow or ice storms. Undergrounding also helps in wildfire prevention. An added benefit is the aesthetic quality of the landscape without the power lines. Although undergrounding can increase the capital cost of electric power transmission and distribution, it decreases operating costs over the lifetime of the cables. Further, calculations by developers that the cost of undergrounding is around twice that of overhead lines ignores the costs of decommissioning that must take place—millions at the expense of UK electricity bill payers after 30 years—whereas there are no decommissioning costs with undergrounding.
Although there are also other related issues to consider, such as topography and geology, we must also consider the impact on local communities. For example, representatives of the community in Cefn Meiriadog, St Asaph, told me last year, and I quote, 'There are decisions being made distant from north Wales directly affecting north Wales communities disproportionately. They appear to be disjointed, with poor or non-existent cumulative effects management, led by companies making very large profits with scant regard for affected communities other than the obligatory in-person events and promised community benefit funds.'
The Welsh Conservative position is that there needs to be a reform of related planning policies in Wales. 'Planning Policy Wales' clearly states that cables should be undergrounded, but developers often say it's not financially viable. However, all these developments should be designed in the first instance to comply with 'Planning Policy Wales'. Welsh Ministers therefore need to be stronger in following their own guidance, rather than allowing arguments of cost to justify circumvention of these planning policies. To facilitate this and to deliver better focused, proactive engagement with energy companies, the related wording in 'Planning Policy Wales' clearly needs to be toughened up.
We will therefore be supporting this motion, whilst also proposing an additional amendment calling on the Welsh Government to ensure that, in accordance with the precautionary principle, proposals for the undergrounding of new power lines should require health impact assessments where their proximity to dwellings raises serious future health concerns. This reflects a real concern highlighted by affected communities and raised, for example, by an MRI radiographer who has worked extensively in oncology when an energy company proposed underground cables as close as 3m from their home. Referring to the potential health impacts associated with the long-term exposure to electric and magnetic fields around the underground cables, they stated that the precautionary principle must be applied where there is published scientific research showing persistent association between cable routes and increased health risks. Notwithstanding that, we support the motion.
Diolch. Mae gosod ceblau sy'n darparu pŵer trydanol neu delathrebu o dan y ddaear yn hytrach na'u hongian ar bolion neu dyrau yn helpu i wella dibynadwyedd y system a lleihau'r risg o doriadau trydan yn ystod gwyntoedd cryfion, stormydd mellt, eira trwm neu stormydd iâ. Mae eu gosod o dan y ddaear hefyd yn helpu i atal tanau gwyllt. Budd ychwanegol yw estheteg y dirwedd heb y llinellau pŵer. Er y gall gosod ceblau o dan y ddaear gynyddu cost gyfalaf trawsyrru a dosbarthu pŵer trydan, mae'n lleihau costau gweithredu dros oes y ceblau. Ymhellach, mae cyfrifiadau gan ddatblygwyr sy'n dangos bod cost gosod ceblau o dan y ddaear tua dwywaith y gost o osod llinellau uwchben yn anwybyddu'r costau datgomisiynu sy'n rhaid digwydd—miliynau ar draul talwyr biliau trydan y DU ar ôl 30 mlynedd—lle nad oes unrhyw gostau datgomisiynu gyda cheblau tanddaearol.
Er bod yna faterion cysylltiedig eraill i'w hystyried hefyd, megis topograffeg a daeareg, rhaid inni ystyried yr effaith ar gymunedau lleol hefyd. Er enghraifft, dywedodd cynrychiolwyr y gymuned yng Nghefn Meiriadog, Llanelwy, wrthyf y llynedd, 'Mae penderfyniadau'n cael eu gwneud ymhell o ogledd Cymru sy'n effeithio'n uniongyrchol ac yn anghymesur ar gymunedau gogledd Cymru. Mae'n ymddangos bod y penderfyniadau hynny'n ddi-drefn, yn dangos rheolaeth wael, os o gwbl, ar effeithiau cronnus, ac wedi eu harwain gan gwmnïau sy'n gwneud elw mawr iawn heb fawr o sylw i gymunedau yr effeithir arnynt heblaw'r digwyddiadau wyneb yn wyneb gorfodol a chronfeydd budd cymunedol a addewir.'
Safbwynt y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yw bod angen diwygio polisïau cynllunio cysylltiedig yng Nghymru. Mae 'Polisi Cynllunio Cymru' yn nodi'n glir y dylid gosod ceblau o dan y ddaear, ond mae datblygwyr yn aml yn dweud nad yw hynny'n ymarferol yn ariannol. Fodd bynnag, dylid cynllunio'r holl ddatblygiadau hyn yn y lle cyntaf i gydymffurfio â 'Polisi Cynllunio Cymru'. Felly, mae angen i Weinidogion Cymru wneud ymdrech well i ddilyn eu canllawiau eu hunain, yn hytrach na chaniatáu i ddadleuon yn ymwneud â chost gyfiawnhau osgoi'r polisïau cynllunio hyn. Er mwyn hwyluso hyn ac i sicrhau ymgysylltiad rhagweithiol ag iddo ffocws gwell gyda chwmnïau ynni, mae'n amlwg fod angen cryfhau'r geiriad cysylltiedig yn 'Polisi Cynllunio Cymru'.
Felly, byddwn yn cefnogi'r cynnig hwn, gan gynnig gwelliant ychwanegol yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau, yn unol â'r egwyddor ragofalus, fod ceisiadau ar gyfer gosod llinellau pŵer newydd o dan y ddaear yn cynnwys asesiadau o effaith ar iechyd lle mae eu hagosrwydd at anheddau yn codi pryderon iechyd difrifol ar gyfer y dyfodol. Mae hyn yn adlewyrchu pryder gwirioneddol a amlygwyd gan gymunedau yr effeithir arnynt ac a godwyd, er enghraifft, gan radiograffydd MRI sydd wedi gweithio'n helaeth ym maes oncoleg pan wnaeth cwmni ynni argymell gosod ceblau tanddaearol mor agos â 3m o'u cartref. Gan gyfeirio at yr effeithiau iechyd posibl sy'n gysylltiedig ag amlygiad hirdymor i feysydd magnetig a thrydanol o amgylch y ceblau tanddaearol, roeddent yn dweud bod yn rhaid cymhwyso'r egwyddor ragofalus lle ceir gwaith ymchwil gwyddonol wedi'i gyhoeddi sy'n dangos cysylltiad parhaus rhwng llwybrau ceblau a risgiau cynyddol i iechyd. Serch hynny, rydym yn cefnogi'r cynnig.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Lywydd. Ddeng mlynedd yn ôl, roedd gan y National Grid fwriad i osod coridor o beilonau ar draws Ynys Môn a thros yr afon Fenai. Fe gafwyd ymgyrch gref gan bobl leol, wedi cael ei harwain gan Blaid Cymru, ac, yn y diwedd, roedd yn rhaid i'r grid dderbyn y byddai angen iddyn nhw osod y ceblau trydan o dan yr afon Fenai pe baent yn symud ymlaen efo'r cynllun, a hynny er mwyn osgoi niwed sylweddol i’r tirlun eiconaidd, ond mi oedden nhw am barhau efo peilonau ar draws yr ynys ei hun. Mae cynllun y grid ar y silff erbyn hyn, ond mi ddaeth hi'n hollol amlwg i mi bryd hwnnw, nôl yn 2014, fod angen newidiadau sylweddol i 'Polisi Cynllunio Cymru’. Does dim dwywaith bod angen cyflymu’r llwybr tuag at ynni adnewyddadwy, ac, i wneud hynny, mae'n rhaid cael cefnogaeth cymunedau, ac mae rhoi ceblau o dan y môr neu o dan y ddaear yn ffordd o liniaru pryderon am hagru tirweddau lleol.
Fel rydym ni wedi clywed, ar hyn o bryd, mae paragraff 5.7.9 'Polisi Cynllunio Cymru' yn cynnwys cafeat sy'n caniatáu i ystyriaethau cost orbwyso manteision gosod llinellau pŵer o dan y ddaear. Mae hyn yn ei hanfod yn caniatáu i bryderon ariannol gael blaenoriaeth dros ffactorau amgylcheddol, cymdeithasol ac esthetig. O ganlyniad, rydym ni yn aml yn gweld nifer fawr o beilonau uwch ein pennau ni, sy'n amharu ar ein tirweddau ac yn tynnu oddi wrth harddwch naturiol Cymru. Mae Plaid Cymru yn credu bod hyn yn wendid sylfaenol yn ein polisi cynllunio ac mae o angen ei gywiro, a hynny ar frys. Felly, dyna pam mae ein cynnig heddiw yn dadlau dros ddileu'r cafeat hwn sy'n ymwneud â chost, gan sicrhau bod ein polisïau seilwaith yn cael eu harwain gan ymrwymiad i stiwardiaeth amgylcheddol a lles cymunedol, yn hytrach na chyfrifiadau ariannol cul.
Wrth ddileu'r cafeat yma, mi fedrwn ni flaenoriaethu manteision hirdymor llinellau pŵer tanddaearol. Byddai'r newid hwn yn alinio ein polisi cynllunio â'n nodau amgylcheddol ehangach ac yn sicrhau nad ydym ni'n aberthu ein tirweddau ar gyfer arbedion ariannol tymor byr. Mi fyddai costau cychwynnol tanddaearu yn arwain at arbedion yn y tymor hir, efo llai o waith cynnal a chadw a llai o amharu ar gyflenwad. Mae llinellau sydd uwch ein pennau ni yn agored i niwed sy'n gysylltiedig â'r tywydd, yn arwain at gostau atgyweirio sylweddol yn aml iawn ac yn arwain at golli pŵer. Mae ceblau tanddaear, ar y llaw arall, yn llawer mwy gwydn ac mae yna angen llai o waith cynnal a chadw.
I gloi, felly, mae'n hanfodol fod paragraff 5.7.9 'Polisi Cynllunio Cymru' yn cael ei newid er mwyn sicrhau bod ein polisïau seilwaith yn cyd-fynd â'n gwerthoedd amgylcheddol a chymdeithasol. Drwy gael gwared ar y cafeat sy'n seiliedig ar gost, gallwn ni flaenoriaethu manteision hirdymor llinellau pŵer tanddaearol, amddiffyn ein tirweddau, ac, yn bwysig, ennill y gefnogaeth gyhoeddus sydd ei hangen i gyflawni ein nodau hinsawdd. Felly, mae Plaid Cymru yn annog pawb, pob Aelod, i gefnogi'r cynnig yma a chymryd cam pendant tuag at ddyfodol mwy cynaliadwy a mwy apelgar yn weledol ar gyfer Gymru.
Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd. Ten years ago, the National Grid had the intention of installing a corridor of pylons across Ynys Môn and over the Menai Straits. There was a strong campaign by local people, led by Plaid Cymru, and, in the end, the grid had to accept that it would need to lay the electricity cables under the Menai Straits for the plan to proceed in order to avoid significant damage to the iconic landscape, but they did want to continue with pylons across the island itself. The grid's plan has now been shelved, but it became very clear to me then, back in 2014, that significant changes were needed to 'Planning Policy Wales'. There's no doubt that we need to accelerate the path towards renewable energy, and, to do that, we must have the support of communities, and laying cables under the sea or under the ground is a way of alleviating concerns about the erosion of local landscapes.
As we've heard, at present, paragraph 5.7.9 of 'Planning Policy Wales' contains a caveat that allows cost considerations to outweigh the benefits of installing power lines underground. This, essentially, allows financial concerns to take precedence over environmental, social and aesthetic factors. As a result, we often see large numbers of pylons above our heads, which disrupt our landscapes and detract from the natural beauty of Wales. Plaid Cymru believes that this is a fundamental weakness in our planning policy that needs to be remedied urgently. So, that's why our motion today argues for the removal of this cost-related caveat, ensuring that our infrastructure policies are guided by a commitment to environmental stewardship and community well-being, rather than narrow financial calculations.
By removing this caveat, we can prioritise the long-term benefits of underground power lines. This change would align our planning policy with our wider environmental goals and ensure that we do not sacrifice our landscapes for short-term financial savings. The initial costs of undergrounding would lead to long-term savings, with less maintenance and less disruption to supply. Overhead lines are vulnerable to weather-related damage, which leads to significant repair costs very often and also results in power outages. Underground cables, on the other hand, are much more durable and require less maintenance.
In conclusion, therefore, it is essential that paragraph 5.7.9 of 'Planning Policy Wales' is changed to ensure that our infrastructure policies are aligned with our environmental and social values. By removing the cost-based caveat, we can prioritise the long-term benefits of underground power lines, we can protect our landscapes, and, vitally, we can gain the public support needed to achieve our climate goals. So, Plaid Cymru encourages all Members to support this motion and take a decisive step towards a more sustainable and visually appealing future for Wales.
One month after I was elected to this Senedd in 2011, we saw one of the largest protests ever on the steps of this Senedd. I think perhaps it was trumped by the farming protest earlier this year, but one of the largest all the same. That protest was about two things: one the over-proliferation of windfarms in one location, and the other about the plans for a 400 kV transmission line thundering through the hills and landscapes of mid Wales. Now, that campaign saw the proposals not proceed, thankfully, but, as others have alluded to, there are other projects going forward in other parts of Wales. In my own constituency, we have plans for large lattice pylons of 132 kV overhead cables now planned to go through the beautiful landscapes of mid Wales again.
Now, my constituents—and I think I speak for people right across Wales in these relevant areas—are not opposed to renewable energy schemes. Far from it; they want to see clean energy produced and near to their homes. What they're concerned about is the infrastructure that can come with those schemes. Now, there are, of course, issues around the over-proliferation of windfarms, and schemes need to be located in appropriate sites, but that, I think, is a debate for another day. We now need to see power lines underground to protect our landscapes and to support appropriate renewable energy projects as well.
The need to change 'Planning Policy Wales' in this regard is an issue that I have raised with the past First Minister, the current First Minister, and also with the Cabinet Secretary Julie James in her various job titles and roles as well. I was very happy to support also James Evans's calls when he brought forward a debate around this issue in April. Now, when I raise this issue with Welsh Government Ministers, the response I receive is this—this is from the Record of Proceedings when I raised it with the former First Minister—
'The Welsh Government's policy is that there should be underground, not overground, transmission.'
That's the perfect answer. That's the answer I wanted to receive, but, of course, the reality is that that's not the position of 'Planning Policy Wales'. 'Planning Policy Wales' goes on to issue those caveats about cost and taking a balanced view et cetera. 'Planning Policy Wales' is in urgent need of review and update and, certainly, a rapid review needs to be taken in terms of the advantages of alternative network technologies, some of which Adam Price and others have referred to. And yes, of course developers will resist, won't they, they'll tell us and give us all the reasons why they can't underground, because that's where there's an advantage to them, financially. But that's their lazy get-out reply, I would suggest.
The motion before us today sets out the appropriate amendment that's needed to 'Planning Policy Wales' and I thank Plaid for their well-worded motion today. The motion sets out, of course, that undergrounding of new infrastructure should be—. The motion sets out that the undergrounding of new infrastructure shall be absolute—
Fis ar ôl i mi gael fy ethol i'r Senedd hon yn 2011, gwelsom un o'r protestiadau mwyaf erioed ar risiau'r Senedd hon. Rwy'n credu efallai fod y brotest ffermio a gafwyd yn gynharach eleni yn fwy, ond roedd yn un o'r rhai mwyaf er hynny. Roedd y brotest honno'n ymwneud â dau beth: gormod o ffermydd gwynt yn cael eu hadeiladu mewn un lleoliad, a'r llall ynghylch cynlluniau i osod llinell drawsyrru 400 kV i redeg drwy fryniau a thirweddau canolbarth Cymru. Nawr, yn dilyn yr ymgyrch honno, ni wnaethant fwrw ymlaen â'r cynigion, diolch byth, ond fel y mae eraill wedi dweud, mae yna brosiectau eraill yn mynd rhagddynt mewn rhannau eraill o Gymru. Yn fy etholaeth i, mae yna gynlluniau i osod peilonau delltog mawr 132 kV i gario ceblau uwchben drwy ganol tirweddau hardd canolbarth Cymru unwaith eto.
Nawr, nid yw fy etholwyr—ac rwy'n credu fy mod yn siarad dros bobl ledled Cymru yn yr ardaloedd perthnasol—yn gwrthwynebu cynlluniau ynni adnewyddadwy. Mae hynny ymhell o fod yn wir; maent eisiau gweld ynni glân yn cael ei gynhyrchu a hynny'n agos at eu cartrefi. Yr hyn y maent yn poeni amdano yw'r seilwaith a all ddod gyda'r cynlluniau hynny. Nawr, wrth gwrs, mae yna broblemau'n ymwneud ag adeiladu gormod o ffermydd gwynt, ac mae angen lleoli cynlluniau ar safleoedd priodol, ond mae honno, rwy'n credu, yn ddadl ar gyfer diwrnod arall. Nawr, mae angen inni weld llinellau pŵer yn cael eu gosod o dan y ddaear er mwyn diogelu ein tirweddau ac i gefnogi prosiectau ynni adnewyddadwy priodol hefyd.
Mae'r angen i newid 'Polisi Cynllunio Cymru' yn hyn o beth yn fater a godais gyda'r cyn-Brif Weinidog, y Prif Weinidog presennol, a hefyd gydag Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet Julie James yn ei gwahanol swyddi a rolau. Roeddwn i'n hapus iawn i gefnogi galwadau James Evans hefyd pan gyflwynodd ddadl ynghylch y mater hwn ym mis Ebrill. Nawr, pan fyddaf yn codi'r mater gyda Gweinidogion Llywodraeth Cymru, yr ymateb a gaf—a daw hyn o Gofnod y Trafodion pan godais y mater gyda'r cyn Brif Weinidog—
'Polisi Llywodraeth Cymru yw y dylai gael ei drosglwyddo o dan y ddaear, nid uwchben y ddaear.'
Dyna'r ateb perffaith. Dyna'r ateb roeddwn eisiau ei gael, ond wrth gwrs, y gwir amdani yw nad dyna yw safbwynt 'Polisi Cynllunio Cymru'. Mae 'Polisi Cynllunio Cymru' yn mynd ymlaen i gyhoeddi'r cafeatau ynghylch cost a mabwysiadu safbwynt cytbwys ac yn y blaen. Mae angen adolygu a diweddaru 'Polisi Cynllunio Cymru' ar frys, ac yn sicr, mae angen cynnal adolygiad brys o fanteision technolegau rhwydwaith amgen, ac mae Adam Price ac eraill wedi cyfeirio at rai ohonynt. A bydd, wrth gwrs y bydd datblygwyr yn gwrthwynebu, oni fyddant, byddant yn dweud wrthym ac yn rhoi'r holl resymau pam na allant osod llinellau o dan y ddaear, oherwydd mai dyna sy'n fanteisiol iddynt yn ariannol. Ond rwy'n awgrymu mai ymateb diog yw hwnnw i osgoi'r ddadl.
Mae'r cynnig ger ein bron ni heddiw yn nodi'r gwelliant priodol sydd ei angen i 'Polisi Cynllunio Cymru' a diolch i Blaid Cymru am gyflwyno'r cynnig hwn sydd wedi'i eirio'n dda heddiw. Mae'r cynnig yn nodi, wrth gwrs, y dylid gosod seilwaith newydd o dan y ddaear—. Mae'r cynnig yn nodi y dylid gosod seilwaith newydd o dan y ddaear fel safbwynt absoliwt—
Russell, you need to conclude now.
Russell, rhaid ichi ddirwyn i ben nawr.
—rather than a preferred position, and new power lines should be laid underground. So, I fully and passionately support this motion today and I hope that Welsh Government Ministers will also support the motion as tabled.
—yn hytrach na safbwynt a ffafrir, a dylid gosod llinellau pŵer newydd o dan y ddaear. Felly, rwy'n cefnogi'r cynnig hwn yn llwyr ac yn angerddol heddiw ac rwy'n gobeithio y bydd Gweinidogion Llywodraeth Cymru hefyd yn cefnogi'r cynnig fel y'i cyflwynwyd.
Galwaf ar Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Lywodraeth Leol, Tai a Chynllunio, Julie James.
I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Housing, Local Government and Planning, Julie James.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I just want to say that I don't think we're miles apart on this motion at all. The original motion and the Welsh Government's position are not worlds apart at all. We have a preference for undergrounding electricity cables as well. The only real difference in this motion today is that we differ on whether it's appropriate to mandate all cables to be underground where possible. I'm sorry to be pedantic about it a little bit, but we've just spent many millions of pounds restoring peatland in various parts of Wales; it would be possible to put them underground through that, but I'd be very upset about it and I suspect that you would too.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Hoffwn ddweud nad wyf yn credu ein bod ni filltiroedd ar wahân mewn perthynas â'r cynnig hwn o gwbl. Nid oes llawer o wahaniaeth rhwng y cynnig gwreiddiol a safbwynt Llywodraeth Cymru mewn gwirionedd. Rydym ni'n ffafrio gosod ceblau trydan o dan y ddaear hefyd. Yr unig wahaniaeth go iawn yn y cynnig hwn heddiw yw ein bod yn anghytuno ynglŷn ag a yw'n briodol ei gwneud hi'n orfodol i osod pob cebl o dan y ddaear lle bynnag y bo hynny'n bosibl. Mae'n ddrwg gennyf fod braidd yn bedantig yn ei gylch, ond rydym newydd wario miliynau lawer o bunnoedd ar adfer mawndiroedd mewn gwahanol rannau o Gymru; byddai'n bosibl eu rhoi o dan y ddaear drwy'r rheini, ond byddai hynny'n fy ngofidio'n fawr ac rwy'n tybio y byddai'n destun gofid i chi hefyd.
Will the Minister take an intervention?
A wnaiff y Gweinidog dderbyn ymyriad?
Of course.
Wrth gwrs.
Sorry, I thought I was down to speak and I obviously wasn't, so there's been a mistake. But Plantlife Cymru have also been doing some great work and they've been concerned, working with the National Grid, about a very rare fungus that is on the endangered list—the globally endangered list, in fact—and they were really concerned about undergrounding cabling there. So, it's not just peatland, it's this fungus and also wildflower meadows as well. We've got some really ancient grasslands and, again, we need to look at those as well when we're undergrounding. So, I'm hoping that that will be taken on board as well.
Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, roeddwn i'n meddwl bod fy enw i lawr i siarad ond mae'n amlwg nad yw, felly mae camgymeriad wedi bod. Ond mae Plantlife Cymru hefyd wedi bod yn gwneud gwaith gwych ac maent wedi bod yn bryderus, gan weithio gyda'r Grid Cenedlaethol, am ffwng prin iawn sydd ar y rhestr o rywogaethau sydd mewn perygl—y rhestr o rywogaethau sydd mewn perygl yn fyd-eang, a dweud y gwir—ac roeddent yn bryderus iawn am geblau tanddaearol yno. Felly, nid mawndiroedd yn unig, ond y ffwng hwn a gweirgloddiau blodeuog hefyd. Mae gennym laswelltiroedd hynafol iawn, ac unwaith eto, mae angen inni edrych ar y rhain hefyd pan fyddwn yn gosod ceblau o dan y ddaear. Felly, rwy'n gobeithio y bydd hynny'n cael ei ystyried hefyd.
Thank you, Carolyn. So, I am very happy—and I've had a conversation with Adam Price a number of times—to look at how we can make sure that a lot more of our cabling goes underground. But there is—. I'm sorry to be pedantic, but the 'where possible' is a problem in the motion, because it is physically possible to do it in places where I think we'd all agree we don't want. In fact, what we're doing—and my colleague Jeremy Miles has a group looking at this very proactively, and it's following on a conversation, Adam, that you and I had during the infrastructure Bill—. I'm very keen to work out the prime routes for undergrounding of major transmission lines and agree them as a sort of pre-agreement, really. We have got a pro—I can't speak—proliferation of pre-planning consultations going on, which are definitely upsetting communities and so on. My colleague here, Huw Irranca-Davies, has a very large number of windfarms and pylons in his area, so it's common across Wales. So, I have no philosophical problem with this motion, but I just think the wording is problematic, so our motion changes it. But I just want to be really clear with the Senedd today that I have no fundamental problem with most of the points made—[Interruption.] Certainly.
Diolch yn fawr, Carolyn. Felly, rwy'n hapus iawn—ac rwyf wedi cael sawl sgwrs gydag Adam Price am hyn—i edrych ar sut y gallwn ni wneud yn siŵr fod llawer mwy o'n ceblau'n cael eu gosod o dan y ddaear. Ond mae yna—. Mae'n ddrwg gennyf fod yn bedantig, ond mae'r ymadrodd 'lle bynnag y bo'n bosibl' yn broblem yn y cynnig, oherwydd mae'n ffisegol bosibl ei wneud mewn lleoedd lle rwy'n credu y byddem i gyd yn cytuno nad ydym eisiau iddynt gael eu gosod. A dweud y gwir, yr hyn a wnawn—ac mae gan fy nghyd-Aelod, Jeremy Miles, grŵp sy'n edrych ar hyn yn rhagweithiol iawn, ac mae'n dilyn sgwrs a gefais gyda chi, Adam, yn ystod y Bil seilwaith—. Rwy'n awyddus iawn i weithio a chytuno ar y prif lwybrau ar gyfer gosod llinellau trawsyrru mawr o dan y ddaear, fel rhyw fath o rag-gytundeb. Mae gennym ormodedd o ymgyngoriadau cyn-gynllunio ar y gweill, sy'n bendant yn peri gofid i gymunedau ac yn y blaen. Mae gan fy nghyd-Aelod yma, Huw Irranca-Davies, nifer fawr iawn o ffermydd gwynt a pheilonau yn ei ardal, felly mae'n gyffredin ledled Cymru. Felly, nid oes gennyf unrhyw broblem athronyddol gyda'r cynnig hwn, ond rwy'n credu bod y geiriad yn broblemus, felly mae ein cynnig ni yn ei newid. Ond rwyf eisiau bod yn glir iawn gyda'r Senedd heddiw nad oes gennyf broblem sylfaenol gyda'r rhan fwyaf o'r pwyntiau a wnaed—[Torri ar draws.] Yn sicr.
Just to be absolutely clear what you're saying, are you saying that the Government's view now is that the caveat that is currently in 'Planning Policy Wales', which says that if undergrounding makes that project financially unviable then it's okay to use overhead lines—? Do you agree with us, then, and others who have spoken, that that caveat now needs to be taken out of 'Planning Policy Wales'?
I fod yn hollol glir ynglŷn â'r hyn rydych chi'n ei ddweud, a ydych chi'n dweud mai safbwynt y Llywodraeth nawr yw bod y cafeat sydd yn 'Polisi Cynllunio Cymru' ar hyn o bryd, sy'n dweud y byddai'n iawn i ddefnyddio llinellau uwchben os byddai gosod ceblau o dan y ddaear yn gwneud y prosiect hwnnw'n anhyfyw yn ariannol—? A ydych chi'n cytuno â ni, felly, ac eraill sydd wedi siarad, fod angen tynnu'r cafeat hwnnw allan o 'Bolisi Cynllunio Cymru' nawr?
I don't want to agree to that as an absolute, but I understand the point you're making and I think we do need to tighten up what we mean by 'unaffordable' in a very big way.
My colleague Jeremy Miles—I think the Senedd has already heard—has an independent advisory group set up, and it's following on from my having been in the energy portfolio myself, and they've recently attended a demonstration of the cable ploughing, which I think you know about, and I think you actually drew it to our attention in the first place. So, we want to work out a way to put the wording in place that allows the energy projects to go through but which mandates undergrounding at a large number of the projects, other than in routes where we think it would be environmentally damaging in the way that Carolyn Thomas pointed out. But, actually, I think there are some more fundamentals than that. I think, if you look at a map of Wales and the topography on it, there aren't that many routes where you could take major infrastructure, so I'll be working will my colleague Jeremy Miles to agree those routes and then to find the best way of doing it. So, I think there'll a slightly different way, not against the philosophy of your motion, but a different way to come to that agreement.
I don't disagree at all that communities don't want to live under high-voltage electricity pylons—of course they don't. Many of them do, though—many in Huw's constituency do, many in the Deputy Presiding Officer's constituency do. So, we also have to look at some of the historic things about how we can change some of that infrastructure as it comes up for renewal. So, I'm not disagreeing with the fundamental principles you've put forward here. I don't like the wording—I'm not mincing my words about that; I don't like the wording as set out—but I think there is something that we can work on, where the Senedd—. There's clearly a consensus across the Chamber that more undergrounding in appropriate places is necessary, but we need to let the independent advisory group that my colleague is in charge of do its work. We will absolutely be updating 'Planning Policy Wales' as a result of that, and we need to work with the renewable energy companies to make sure that we have a more coherent picture for Wales of where the energy is and how the transmission works.
Deputy Presiding Officer, just to complete that picture—[Interruption.] Certainly, Carolyn.
Nid wyf eisiau cytuno â hynny'n absoliwt, ond rwy'n deall y pwynt rydych chi'n ei wneud ac rwy'n credu bod angen inni egluro'n llawer gwell yr hyn a olygwn wrth 'anfforddiadwy'.
Mae fy nghyd-Aelod Jeremy Miles—rwy'n credu bod y Senedd eisoes wedi clywed—wedi sefydlu grŵp cynghori annibynnol, ac mae'n deillio o'r adeg pan oeddwn yn y portffolio ynni fy hun, ac maent wedi mynychu arddangosiad o aredig ceblau yn ddiweddar, ac rwy'n credu mai chi a dynnodd ein sylw ato yn y lle cyntaf. Felly, rydym eisiau dod o hyd i'r geiriad cywir sy'n caniatáu i'r prosiectau ynni fynd rhagddynt, ond sy'n gorfodi nifer fawr o'r prosiectau i osod ceblau o dan y ddaear, ac eithrio mewn llwybrau lle credwn y byddai'n niweidiol i'r amgylchedd yn y ffordd y nododd Carolyn Thomas. Ond mewn gwirionedd, rwy'n credu bod yna rai pethau mwy sylfaenol na hynny. Rwy'n credu, os edrychwch chi ar fap o Gymru a'r dopograffeg arno, nid oes cymaint â hynny o lwybrau lle gallech chi osod seilwaith mawr, felly byddaf yn gweithio gyda fy nghyd-Aelod Jeremy Miles i gytuno ar y llwybrau hynny a dod o hyd i'r ffordd orau o'i wneud. Felly, rwy'n credu y byddwn yn dod i gytundeb mewn ffordd ychydig yn wahanol, nid yn groes i athroniaeth eich cynnig, ond mewn ffordd ychydig yn wahanol.
Nid wyf yn anghytuno o gwbl nad yw cymunedau eisiau byw o dan beilonau trydan foltedd uchel—wrth gwrs nad ydynt. Serch hynny, mae llawer ohonynt yn byw yn y mannau hynny—mae llawer yn etholaeth Huw yn byw yn y mannau hynny, mae llawer yn etholaeth y Dirprwy Lywydd yn byw yn y mannau hynny. Felly, mae'n rhaid inni edrych hefyd ar rai o'r pethau hanesyddol ynglŷn â sut y gallwn newid rhywfaint o'r seilwaith hwnnw pan fydd angen iddo gael ei adnewyddu. Felly, nid wyf yn anghytuno â'r egwyddorion sylfaenol a gyflwynwyd gennych yma. Nid wyf yn hoffi'r geiriad—rwy'n dweud hynny'n blwmp ac yn blaen; nid wyf yn hoffi'r geiriad fel y mae—ond rwy'n credu bod yna rywbeth y gallwn weithio arno, lle mae'r Senedd—. Mae'n amlwg fod yna gonsensws ar draws y Siambr fod angen mwy o osod ceblau o dan y ddaear mewn mannau priodol, ond mae angen inni adael i'r grŵp cynghori annibynnol, y mae fy nghyd-Aelod yn gyfrifol amdano, wneud ei waith. Byddwn yn sicr yn diweddaru 'Polisi Cynllunio Cymru' o ganlyniad i hynny, ac mae angen inni weithio gyda'r cwmnïau ynni adnewyddadwy i sicrhau darlun mwy cydlynol i Gymru o lle mae'r ynni a sut mae'r trawsyrru'n gweithio.
Ddirprwy Lywydd, i gwblhau'r darlun hwnnw—[Torri ar draws.] Wrth gwrs, Carolyn.
Will you work with the environmental bodies as well, such as Plantlife Cymru? Thank you.
A wnewch chi weithio gyda'r cyrff amgylcheddol hefyd, fel Plantlife Cymru? Diolch.
I was just coming on to that. Yes, absolutely. So, absolutely, we will work with all of the stakeholders, including all the environmental bodies, and with our farmers, landowners and everybody else, but, actually, the most important stakeholder is the national grid. I know that my colleague Jeremy Miles has taken on the conversations that I was having, absolutely, with them, and we need to make sure that the very high-voltage transmission lines for the national grid itself, which are very much needed in mid Wales in particular, because you know that the electricity supply in mid Wales is not what we'd like it to be, are done in the best possible way—[Interruption.] Certainly, go on.
Roeddwn i'n dod at hynny. Yn hollol, byddwn yn gweithio gyda'r holl randdeiliaid, gan gynnwys yr holl gyrff amgylcheddol, a chyda'n ffermwyr, tirfeddianwyr a phawb arall, ond mewn gwirionedd, y rhanddeiliad pwysicaf yw'r grid cenedlaethol. Rwy'n gwybod bod fy nghyd-Aelod, Jeremy Miles wedi ymgymryd â'r sgyrsiau yr oeddwn i'n eu cael gyda nhw, ac mae angen inni sicrhau bod y llinellau trawsyrru foltedd uchel iawn ar gyfer y grid cenedlaethol ei hun, sydd eu hangen yn fawr yn y canolbarth yn enwedig, oherwydd fe wyddoch nad yw'r cyflenwad trydan yn y canolbarth yr hyn yr hoffem iddo fod, yn cael eu gwneud yn y ffordd orau bosibl—[Torri ar draws.] Yn sicr, ewch amdani.
You were talking there about the plans that National Grid have and Bute Energy have. They're not about strengthening the network in mid Wales, as perhaps you've alluded to; they're about taking the power out, and perhaps that's one of the issues that needs to be addressed as well.
Roeddech chi'n siarad yno am y cynlluniau sydd gan y Grid Cenedlaethol a Bute Energy. Nid eu diben yw cryfhau'r rhwydwaith yng nghanolbarth Cymru, fel y nodoch chi o bosibl; eu diben yw cludo'r pŵer allan, ac efallai mai dyna un o'r pethau y mae angen mynd i'r afael â nhw hefyd.
So, that's why we're working—. Exactly that, Russell. That's why we're working with the National Grid, so that what we don't have is an unbroken pipeline that transverses it, but actually has a pipeline that delivers the electricity necessary for those communities to have the kind of electrical heating, EV charging points and all the things that we know are really struggling in parts of Wales. So, the transmission network has to be set up in order to deliver the energy to those communities, as well as take it through there, and there are not very many routes that are viable for that. My colleague Jeremy Miles has picked up those conversations, and the First Minister's been involved in that as well; you've just recently had the meeting. So, we're very keen to make sure that we get the best possible solution to deliver the energy to the communities that need it, but, frankly, without putting the old-school technology in place, and to make sure that we get the most up-to-date twenty-first century technology. And, of course, 'Planning Policy Wales' will be updated to reflect that. We're very keen to do that. I'm afraid I can't support the motion as it's worded today, but I want to be really clear that the Government is absolutely in the same place on the philosophy of that motion. Our motion just amends it, so that we can have more time to think about it, but I want to work with Members right across the Chamber to make sure, together with my colleague the economy Minister, the FM and everybody else in the Government, that we get the best result in terms of undergrounding. Diolch.
Felly, dyna pam ein bod ni'n gweithio—. Yn union hynny, Russell. Dyna pam ein bod yn gweithio gyda'r Grid Cenedlaethol, fel mai'r hyn sydd gennym, yn hytrach na llinellau di-dor sy'n ei groesi, yw llinell sy'n darparu'r trydan sy'n angenrheidiol i'r cymunedau hynny gael y math o wresogi trydanol, pwyntiau gwefru cerbydau trydan a'r holl bethau y gwyddom eu bod yn anodd iawn eu cael mewn rhannau o Gymru. Felly, mae'n rhaid sefydlu'r rhwydwaith trawsyrru er mwyn darparu'r ynni i'r cymunedau hynny, yn ogystal â mynd ag ef drwodd, ac nid oes llawer iawn o lwybrau lle mae'n bosibl gwneud hynny. Mae fy nghyd-Aelod Jeremy Miles wedi mynd ar drywydd y sgyrsiau hynny, ac mae'r Prif Weinidog wedi bod yn rhan o hynny hefyd; fe gawsoch chi'r cyfarfod yn ddiweddar. Felly, rydym yn awyddus iawn i sicrhau ein bod yn cael yr ateb gorau posibl i ddarparu'r ynni i'r cymunedau sydd ei angen, ond heb roi'r dechnoleg hen ffasiwn ar waith, ac i sicrhau ein bod yn cael y dechnoleg ddiweddaraf ar gyfer yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Ac wrth gwrs, bydd 'Polisi Cynllunio Cymru' yn cael ei ddiweddaru i adlewyrchu hynny. Rydym yn awyddus iawn i wneud hynny. Rwy'n ofni na allaf gefnogi'r cynnig fel y mae wedi'i eirio heddiw, ond rwyf am fod yn glir iawn fod y Llywodraeth yn yr un lle yn union ar athroniaeth y cynnig. Mae ein cynnig ni yn ei ddiwygio fel y gallwn gael mwy o amser i feddwl amdano, dyna i gyd, ond rwyf am weithio gydag Aelodau ar draws y Siambr, gyda fy nghyd-Aelod, Gweinidog yr economi, y Prif Weinidog a phawb arall yn y Llywodraeth, i sicrhau ein bod yn cael y canlyniad gorau o ran gosod ceblau o dan y ddaear. Diolch.
Galwaf ar Cefin Campbell i ymateb i'r ddadl.
I call on Cefin Campbell to reply to the debate.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Lywydd, a diolch i bawb sydd wedi cyfrannu i'r ddadl bwysig hon. Diolch i Adam am agor y ddadl, a byddaf i'n sôn mwy am y pwyntiau gododd ef mewn eiliad neu ddwy. Diolch i Mark Isherwood.
Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd, and thank you to everyone whose contributed to this important debate. Thank you to Adam for opening the debate, and I will be addressing the points that he raised in a few moments. I'd like to thank Mark Isherwood.
Mark, thank you very much for arguing that undergrounding improves the system reliability and the aesthetic quality of the landscape, which many other speakers have supported as well. We will be supporting your amendment as well.
Mark, diolch yn fawr iawn am ddadlau bod gosod ceblau o dan y ddaear yn gwella dibynadwyedd y system ac ansawdd esthetig y dirwedd, ac mae llawer o siaradwyr eraill wedi cefnogi hynny yn ogystal. Byddwn yn cefnogi eich gwelliant chi hefyd.
Roedd Siân Gwenllian yn sôn am liniaru pryderon am anharddu cymunedau lleol. Rwy’n cytuno'n llwyr gyda hynny, a’n bod ni'n rhoi, o bosibl, y dadleuon ariannol o flaen y dadleuon dros ystyriaethau tirweddol, ac mae hynny yn rhywbeth roedd Russell George yn sôn amdano.
Siân Gwenllian talked about mitigating the impact of blighting communities. I agree with her entirely on that, and that we perhaps put financial arguments over and above concerns around the landscape. That is something that Russell George mentioned.
Russell, you spoke about history repeating itself from 2011, when you came to the Senedd first of all, and that you're now facing a similar campaign again in your constituency.
Gweinidog—or Cabinet Secretary, rather—I'm heartened to hear that you're not opposed in principle to the motion that we put forward, and that you're not against the philosophy. I think your problem is with the wording, so that's something we can certainly work on together with you.
In terms of the peatland areas, obviously any undergrounding would be sensitive to that challenge, but so would pylons as well. So, it's not a matter of either/or on that issue; it's a matter of both being very, very sensitive to peatland areas. I'm also, maybe, not convinced that the argument for sacrificing our beautiful landscape on the altar of profit and costs isn't taken into account more clearly by you as a Government.
So, going back to where Adam started off—
Russell, roeddech chi'n siarad am hanes yn ailadrodd ei hun ers 2011, pan ddaethoch chi i'r Senedd gyntaf, a'ch bod chi nawr yn wynebu ymgyrch debyg eto yn eich etholaeth.
Weinidog—neu Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, yn hytrach—mae'n galonogol clywed nad ydych chi'n gwrthwynebu'r cynnig a gyflwynwyd gennym mewn egwyddor, ac nad ydych chi'n wrthwynebus i'r athroniaeth. Rwy'n credu mai eich problem yw'r geiriad, felly mae hynny'n rhywbeth y gallwn ni weithio arno gyda chi yn sicr.
O ran mawndiroedd, yn amlwg byddai unrhyw osod ceblau o dan y ddaear yn sensitif i'r her honno, ond byddai peilonau hefyd. Felly, nid yw'n fater o naill ai/neu gyda hynny; mae'n fater o sicrhau bod y ddau ddull yn sensitif iawn i fawndiroedd. Hefyd, efallai nad wyf yn argyhoeddedig fod y ddadl dros aberthu ein tirwedd hardd ar allor elw a chostau yn cael ei hystyried yn gliriach gennych chi fel Llywodraeth.
Felly, i fynd yn ôl i lle dechreuodd Adam—
—rŷn ni i gyd wedi cael toreth o e-byst yn ddiweddar sydd yn dangos cymaint yw cryfder y pryder sydd gan gymunedau ledled Cymru am y peilonau. Yn wir, yng Nghanolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru, o Lanymddyfri i Landdewi Brefi, o Landrindod i Landyfaelog, yr un yw'r alwad, sef fod rhaid claddu'r ceblau dan ddaear. Trwy wneud hyn, byddwn ni fel Senedd yn cymryd safiad cadarn i warchod harddwch naturiol ac ecolegol ein tirweddau unigryw.
Fel amlygwyd gan Adam Price, mae polisi presennol y Llywodraeth yn parhau yn ddiffygiol gan adael i'r egwyddor bwysig hon gael ei diystyru gan ystyriaethau cyllidol.
—we've all had a number of e-mails recently showing the strength of feeling and concern among communities the length and breadth of Wales on pylons. In Mid and West Wales, from Llandovery to Llanddewi Brefi, friom Llandrindod to Llandyfaelog, the call is the same: we must underground these cables. In doing so, we as a Senedd will be taking a strong stance to protect the natural beauty and the ecology of our unique landscapes.
As was highlighted by Adam Price, the current Government policy continues to be deficient, allowing this important principle to be disregarded because of financial considerations.
A few months ago, I attended a demonstration by ATP Cable Plough of Pencader, a world-leading company. It's clear that advancements in cable-ploughing technology have made undergrounding more feasible and cost-effective than ever before. This method allows for the installation of underground cables with minimal surface destruction, reducing both environmental impact and project costs. Furthermore, the long-term economic benefits of undergrounding are substantial, as we've already heard. This is crucial as we anticipate a near tripling of electricity demand by 2050. Investing in robust and reliable infrastructure now will save us from higher costs and greater disruptions in the future.
Now, I declare an interest. I live in the Tywi valley, a place of outstanding natural beauty, with ancient hill forts, castles built by Welsh princes, historic buildings and the meandering River Tywi. Now, every time I walk to Garn Goch near Bethlehem, I look down at the breathtaking views around me and I'm reminded of a line by the poet John Ruskin:
'Nature is painting for us, day after day, pictures of infinite beauty'.
Now, this unspoiled scenery is so treasured by the people living in these communities and enjoyed by the thousands who visit every year. Now, if we believe God created this beautiful Earth, then no man or woman has the right to violate it. I am clear in my conviction that the extra cost of undergrounding cables is a very small price to pay for the preservation of this unique landscape not only in Carmarthenshire, but in all parts of Wales.
Ychydig fisoedd yn ôl, mynychais arddangosiad gan ATP Cable Plough o Bencader, cwmni sy'n arwain y byd. Mae'n amlwg fod datblygiadau yn nhechnoleg aredig ceblau wedi gwneud gosod ceblau tanddaearol yn fwy ymarferol a chosteffeithiol nag erioed o'r blaen. Mae'r dull hwn yn caniatáu ar gyfer gosod ceblau tanddaearol heb fawr ddim difrod i wyneb y tir, gan leihau'r effaith amgylcheddol a chost prosiectau. At hynny, mae manteision economaidd hirdymor gosod ceblau tanddaearol yn sylweddol, fel y clywsom eisoes. Mae hyn yn hanfodol wrth inni ragweld y bydd y galw am drydan bron â bod yn treblu erbyn 2050. Bydd buddsoddi mewn seilwaith cadarn a dibynadwy nawr yn ein harbed rhag costau uwch a mwy o aflonyddwch yn y dyfodol.
Nawr, rwy'n datgan diddordeb. Rwy'n byw yn nyffryn Tywi, lle o harddwch naturiol eithriadol, gyda bryngaerau hynafol, cestyll a adeiladwyd gan dywysogion Cymreig, adeiladau hanesyddol ac afon Tywi ddolennog. Nawr, bob tro y cerddaf i'r Garn Goch ger Bethlehem, rwy'n edrych i lawr ar y golygfeydd syfrdanol o'm cwmpas a chaf fy atgoffa o linell gan y bardd John Ruskin:
'Mae natur yn paentio i ni, dydd ar ôl dydd, lluniau o harddwch anfeidrol'.
Nawr, mae'r bobl sy'n byw yn y cymunedau hyn yn trysori'r golygfeydd digyffwrdd hyn cymaint a chânt eu mwynhau gan y miloedd sy'n ymweld bob blwyddyn. Nawr, os credwn fod Duw wedi creu'r Ddaear hardd hon, nid oes gan ddyn na dynes hawl i'w cham-drin. Rwy'n glir yn fy argyhoeddiad fod cost ychwanegol gosod ceblau tanddaearol yn bris bach iawn i'w dalu am ddiogelu'r dirwedd unigryw hon nid yn unig yn sir Gaerfyrddin, ond ym mhob rhan o Gymru.
I gloi, mae'r cynnig hwn yn adlewyrchu'n hymrwymiad i atebion arloesol i sicrhau dyfodol cynaliadwy.
To close, this motion reflects our commitment to innovative solutions to ensure a sustainable future.
And this is the final paragraph: Plaid Cymru believes that undergrounding is not just desirable, but essential. We must move beyond outdated practices and embrace policies that reflect our commitment to environmental stewardship and community well-being. I urge the Welsh Government to step forward, to step up and commit to a future where our infrastructure enhances rather than detracts from the beauty and integrity of Wales. To paraphrase Gaylord Nelson, founder of Earth Day, the ultimate test of our conscience and judgment may be our willingness to sacrifice something today for future generations, whose words of thanks will not be heard. Diolch.
A dyma'r paragraff olaf: mae Plaid Cymru'n credu bod gosod ceblau o dan y ddaear nid yn unig yn ddymunol, ond yn hanfodol. Rhaid inni symud y tu hwnt i arferion hen ffasiwn a chroesawu polisïau sy'n adlewyrchu ein hymrwymiad i stiwardiaeth amgylcheddol a llesiant cymunedol. Rwy'n annog Llywodraeth Cymru i gamu ymlaen, i gamu i'r adwy ac ymrwymo i ddyfodol lle mae ein seilwaith yn gwella yn hytrach nag amharu ar harddwch ac anian Cymru. I aralleirio Gaylord Nelson, sylfaenydd Diwrnod y Ddaear, efallai mai'r prawf eithaf ar ein cydwybod a'n crebwyll yw pa mor barod ydym ni i aberthu rhywbeth heddiw ar gyfer cenedlaethau'r dyfodol, na fydd eu geiriau o ddiolch yn cael eu clywed. Diolch.
Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Oes. Felly, gohiriaf y bleidlais ar yr eitem hon tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] There are objections. We will therefore defer voting under this item until voting time.
Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Voting deferred until voting time.
A dyma ni wedi cyrraedd y cyfnod pleidleisio. Oni bai fod tri Aelod yn dymuno i mi ganu'r gloch, symudaf yn syth i'r cyfnod pleidleisio.
And that brings us to voting time. Unless three Members wish for the bell to be rung, I will move immediately to voting time.
Mae'r bleidlais gyntaf ar eitem 7, dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig: polisi economaidd. Galwaf am bleidlais ar y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio. Os gwrthodir y cynnig, byddwn yn pleidleisio ar y gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd i'r cynnig. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 14, neb yn ymatal, 36 yn erbyn. Felly, mae'r cynnig wedi ei wrthod.
The first vote is on item 7, the Welsh Conservatives' debate on economic policy. I call for a vote on the motion without amendment. If the proposal is not agreed, we will vote on the amendments tabled to the motion. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 14, no abstentions, 36 against. Therefore, the motion is not agreed.
Eitem 7. Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig - Polisi economaidd. Cynnig heb ei diwygio: O blaid: 14, Yn erbyn: 36, Ymatal: 0
Gwrthodwyd y cynnig
Item 7. Welsh Conservatives' Debate - Economic policy. Motion without amendment: For: 14, Against: 36, Abstain: 0
Motion has been rejected
Galwaf nawr am bleidlais ar welliant 1. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 eu dad-ddethol. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 26, neb yn ymatal, 24 yn erbyn. Felly, mae gwelliant 1 wedi ei dderbyn.
I now call for a vote on amendment 1. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2, 3 and 4 will be deselected. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 26, no abstentions, 24 against. Therefore, amendment 1 is agreed.
Eitem 7. Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig - Polisi economaidd. Gwelliant 1, cyflwynwyd yn enw Jane Hutt: O blaid: 26, Yn erbyn: 24, Ymatal: 0
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant
Item 7. Welsh Conservatives' Debate - Economic policy. Amendment 1, tabled in the name of Jane Hutt: For: 26, Against: 24, Abstain: 0
Amendment has been agreed
Cafodd gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 eu dad-ddethol.
Amendments 2, 3 and 4 deselected.
Mae'r bleidlais nesaf ar welliant 5. Galwaf am bleidlais ar welliant 5. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 11, neb yn ymatal, 39 yn erbyn. Felly, mae gwelliant 5 wedi ei wrthod.
The next vote is, therefore, on amendment 5. I call for a vote on amendment 5. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 11, no abstentions, 39 against. Therefore, amendment 5 is not agreed.
Eitem 7. Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig - Polisi economaidd. Gwelliant 5, cyflwynwyd yn enw Heledd Fychan: O blaid: 11, Yn erbyn: 39, Ymatal: 0
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant
Item 7. Welsh Conservatives' Debate - Economic policy. Amendment 5, tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan: For: 11, Against: 39, Abstain: 0
Amendment has been rejected
Galwaf nawr am bleidlais ar y cynnig wedi ei ddiwygio.
I now call for a vote on the motion as amended.
Cynnig NDM8606 fel y'i diwygiwyd:
Cynnig bod y Senedd:
1. Yn croesawu:
a) cynllun clir Llywodraeth Cymru a amlinellir yn y ddogfen Cenhadaeth Economaidd: Blaenoriaethau ar gyfer Economi Gryfach;
b) y ffaith bod cyflogau wedi codi’n gyflymach yng Nghymru nag yn Lloegr ers 2011;
c) y ffaith bod gwaith rhanbarthol a phartneriaethau mor gadarn;
d) buddsoddiad gwerth dros £143 miliwn gan Lywodraeth Cymru mewn prentisiaethau o safon uchel;
e) y ffaith bod Gwarant i Bobl Ifanc Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cefnogi dros 27,000 o bobl ifanc;
f) y buddsoddiad sydd wedi parhau drwy Busnes Cymru a Banc Datblygu Cymru;
g) darparu gwerth dros £140m mewn rhyddhad ardrethi i fusnesau bach sy’n cefnogi trethdalwyr oddeutu 70,000 eiddo ledled Cymru bob blwyddyn; a
h) y cyfraniad o £78m sy’n golygu bod busnesau manwerthu, hamdden a lletygarwch wedi derbyn cymorth bob blwyddyn am y pum mlynedd diwethaf gyda’u biliau ardrethi annomestig.
2. Yn gresynu at y canlynol o dan Lywodraeth y DU:
a) diffyg cynllun economaidd a diwydiannol clir heb unrhyw gynlluniau gwario manwl ar ôl 2024-25, gan arwain at 14 o flynyddoedd o anrhefn;
b) bod prisiau’n parhau i godi ar gyfradd uwch, sy’n golygu mai dyma’r cynnydd mwyaf ers annibyniaeth Banc Lloegr, a’r ffaith eu bod 21.3 y cant yn uwch ym mis Ebrill nag oeddent dair blynedd cyn hynny;
c) bod gan Lywodraeth Cymru Gyllideb yn 2024-25 sy’n £3 biliwn yn is na chyllideb a fyddai wedi cynyddu yn unol â Chynnyrch Domestig Gros ers 2010; a
d) bod gan Gymru bron i £1.3 biliwn yn llai o gyllid mewn termau real yn sgil methiant Llywodraeth y DU i anrhydeddu ei hymrwymiadau a chyflwyno cyllid llawn yn lle cyllid yr UE.
3. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth bresennol y DU i gydnabod:
a) mai’r newidiadau i’r gyfradd sylfaenol gan Fanc Lloegr a phrisiau ynni is yw’r prif resymau dros y gostyngiad diweddar mewn chwyddiant;
b) bod y Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol wedi cadarnhau bod problemau gyda’r arolwg o’r llafurlu, sy’n parhau i effeithio ar ansawdd data o ran ystadegau’r farchnad lafur ac nad ydynt yn cyflwyno darlun cywir o’r sefyllfa yng Nghymru;
c) y niwed sylweddol a wnaed i’r Economi yn sgil mini-gyllideb drychinebus Liz Truss, sydd wedi golygu bod pobl a theuluoedd yng Nghymru yn talu morgeisi a biliau uwch; a
d) y cafodd y Gronfa Ffyniant Bro a’r Gronfa Ffyniant Gyffredin eu datblygu heb lawer o waith cynllunio ac ymgynghori ac maent wedi tanseilio datganoli.
Motion NDM8606 as amended:
To propose that the Senedd:
1. Welcomes:
a) the Welsh Government’s clear plan set out in the Economic Mission: Priorities for a Stronger Economy;
b) that wages have risen faster in Wales than England since 2011;
c) the strength of regional working and partnerships;
d) the Welsh Government’s investment of over £143 million in quality apprenticeships;
e) the Welsh Government’s Young Person’s Guarantee which has supported over 27,000 young people;
f) continued investment through Business Wales and Development Bank of Wales;
g) the provision of over £140 million small business rates relief which supports ratepayers for around 70,000 properties across Wales every year; and
h) £78 million to provide a fifth successive year of support for retail, leisure and hospitality businesses with their non-domestic rates bills.
2. Regrets that under the UK Government:
a) there has been a lack of a clear economic and industrial plan with no detailed spending plans beyond 2024-25, resulting in 14 years of chaos;
b) there are the most sustained price rises since the Bank of England’s independence, with prices 21.3 per cent higher in April than three years prior;
c) the Welsh Government has a Budget in 2024-25 which is £3 billion lower than if it had grown in line with GDP since 2010; and
d) Wales has almost £1.3 billion less funding in real terms due to the UK Government’s failure to honour its commitments and replace EU funds in full.
3. Calls on the current UK Government to recognise:
a) that base rate changes by the Bank of England and falling energy prices are the principal reason for the recent reduction in inflation;
b) that the ONS has confirmed there are issues with the labour force survey, which continue to affect the data quality of labour market statistics and may not give a true picture of the situation in Wales;
c) the significant harm done to the Economy through Liz Truss’ disastrous mini budget, which has left people and families in Wales paying higher mortgages and bills; and
d) that Levelling Up and Shared Prosperity Funds have been developed with very little planning and consultation and have actively undermined devolution.
Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 26, neb yn ymatal, 24 yn erbyn. Felly, mae'r cynnig wedi ei ddiwygio wedi ei dderbyn.
Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 26, no abstentions, 24 against. Therefore, the motion as amended is agreed.
Eitem 7. Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig - Polisi economaidd. Cynnig wedi'i ddiwygio: O blaid: 26, Yn erbyn: 24, Ymatal: 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd
Item 7. Welsh Conservatives' Debate - Economic policy. Motion as amended: For: 26, Against: 24, Abstain: 0
Motion as amended has been agreed
Mae'r bleidlais nesaf ar eitem 8, y ddadl Plaid Cymru gyntaf: gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl ac anabledd dysgu ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr. Galwaf am bleidlais ar y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio. Os gwrthodir y cynnig, byddwn yn pleidleisio ar y gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd i'r cynnig. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 25, neb yn ymatal, 25 yn erbyn. Felly, mae'r bleidlais yn gyfartal. Fel sy'n ofynnol o dan Reol Sefydlog 6.20, rwy'n arfer fy mhleidlais fwrw i bleidleisio yn erbyn y cynnig. Y canlyniad nawr: o blaid 25, neb yn ymatal, 26 yn erbyn. Mae'r cynnig wedi ei wrthod.
The next vote is on item 8, the Plaid Cymru debate on mental health and learning disability service at Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board. I call for a vote on the motion without amendment. If the proposal is not agreed, we will vote on the amendments tabled to the motion. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 25, no abstentions, 25 against. Therefore, the vote is tied. As required under Standing Order 6.20, I exercise my casting vote against the motion. So, the final result is: in favour 25, no abstentions and 26 against. The motion is, therefore, not agreed.
Eitem 8. Dadl Plaid Cymru - Gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl ac anabledd dysgu ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr. Cynnig heb ei ddiwygio: O blaid: 25, Yn erbyn: 25, Ymatal: 0
Gan fod nifer y pleidleisiau yn gyfartal, defnyddiodd y Dirprwy Lywydd ei bleidlais fwrw yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 6.20(ii).
Gwrthodwyd y cynnig
Item 8. Plaid Cymru Debate - Mental health and learning disability services at Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board. Motion without amendment.: For: 25, Against: 25, Abstain: 0
As there was an equality of votes, the Deputy Presiding Officer used his casting vote in accordance with Standing Order 6.20(ii).
Motion has been rejected
Galwaf am bleidlais nawr ar welliant 1. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliant 2 ei ddad-ddethol. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. Mae'r bleidlais yn gyfartal eto. O blaid 25, neb yn ymatal, 25 yn erbyn. Unwaith eto, fel sy'n ofynnol o dan Reol Sefydlog 6.20, rwy'n arfer fy mhleidlais fwrw i bleidleisio yn erbyn y gwelliant. O blaid 25, neb yn ymatal, 26 yn erbyn. Mae gwelliant 1 wedi ei wrthod.
I now call for a vote on amendment 1. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected. Open the vote. Close the vote. The vote is tied again. In favour 25, no abstentions, and 25 against. Once again, as required by Standing Order 6.20, I exercise my casting vote against the amendment. In favour 25, no abstentions, and 26 against. Therefore, amendment 1 is not agreed.
Eitem 8. Dadl Plaid Cymru - Gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl ac anabledd dysgu ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr. Gwelliant 1, cyflwynwyd yn enw Jane Hutt: O blaid: 25, Yn erbyn: 25, Ymatal: 0
Gan fod nifer y pleidleisiau yn gyfartal, defnyddiodd y Dirprwy Lywydd ei bleidlais fwrw yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 6.20(ii).
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant
Item 8. Plaid Cymru Debate - Mental health and learning disability services at Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board. Amendment 1, tabled in the name of Jane Hutt: For: 25, Against: 25, Abstain: 0
As there was an equality of votes, the Deputy Presiding Officer used his casting vote in accordance with Standing Order 6.20(ii).
Amendment has been rejected
Galwaf am bleidlais nawr ar welliant 2. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. Unwaith eto, mae'r bleidlais yn gyfartal. O blaid 25, neb yn ymatal, 25 yn erbyn. Fel sy'n ofynnol o dan Reol Sefydlog 6.20, rwy'n arfer fy mhleidlais fwrw i bleidleisio yn erbyn y gwelliant. Felly, 25 o blaid, neb yn ymatal, 26 yn erbyn. Mae gwelliant 2 wedi ei wrthod.
I now call for a vote on amendment 2. Open the vote. Close the vote. Once again, the vote is tied. In favour 25, no abstentions, and 25 against. And, as required by Standing Order 6.20, I exercise my casting vote against the amendment. Therefore, there were 25 in favour, no abstentions, and 26 against. Amendment 2 is not agreed.
Eitem 8. Dadl Plaid Cymru - Gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl ac anabledd dysgu ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr. Gwelliant 2, cyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar: O blaid: 25, Yn erbyn: 25, Ymatal: 0
Gan fod nifer y pleidleisiau yn gyfartal, defnyddiodd y Dirprwy Lywydd ei bleidlais fwrw yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 6.20(ii).
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant
Item 8. Plaid Cymru Debate - Mental health and learning disability services at Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board. Amendment 2, tabled in the name of Darren Millar: For: 25, Against: 25, Abstain: 0
As there was an equality of votes, the Deputy Presiding Officer used his casting vote in accordance with Standing Order 6.20(ii).
Amendment has been rejected
Gan nad yw'r Senedd wedi derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio, nac wedi derbyn y gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd i'r cynnig, caiff y cynnig, felly, ei wrthod.
Ac yn olaf, byddwn ni'n pleidleisio ar eitem 9, dadl Plaid Cymru, polisi cynllunio ar gyfer llinellau pŵer newydd. Galwaf am bleidlais ar y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio. Os gwrthodir y cynnig, byddwn yn pleidleisio ar y gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd i'r cynnig. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 25, neb yn ymatal, 25 yn erbyn. Fel sy'n ofynnol o dan Reol Sefydlog 6.20, rwy'n arfer fy mhleidlais fwrw i bleidleisio yn erbyn y cynnig. Nawr, o blaid 25, neb yn ymatal, 26 yn erbyn. Felly, mae'r cynnig wedi ei wrthod.
As the Senedd has not agreed the motion without amendment, nor the amendments tabled to the motion, the motion is, therefore, not agreed.
And finally, we will vote on item 9, the Plaid Cymru debate on planning policy for new power lines. I call for a vote on the motion without amendment. If the proposal is not agreed, we will vote on the amendments tabled to the motion. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 25, no abstentions, 25 against. As required under Standing Order 6.20, I exercise my casting vote against the motion. Now, in favour 25, no abstentions, 26 against. Therefore, the motion is not agreed.
Eitem 9. Dadl Plaid Cymru - Polisi cynllunio ar gyfer llinellau pŵer newydd. Cynnig heb ei ddiwygio: O blaid: 25, Yn erbyn: 25, Ymatal: 0
Gan fod nifer y pleidleisiau yn gyfartal, defnyddiodd y Dirprwy Lywydd ei bleidlais fwrw yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 6.20(ii).
Gwrthodwyd y cynnig
Item 9. Plaid Cymru Debate - Planning policy for new power lines. Motion without amendment: For: 25, Against: 25, Abstain: 0
As there was an equality of votes, the Deputy Presiding Officer used his casting vote in accordance with Standing Order 6.20(ii).
Motion has been rejected
Galwaf am bleidlais ar welliant 1. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. Mae'r bleidlais yn gyfartal. Fel sy'n ofynnol o dan Reol Sefydlog 6.20, rwy'n arfer fy mhleidlais fwrw i bleidleisio yn erbyn y gwelliant. O blaid 25, neb yn ymatal, 26 yn erbyn. Mae gwelliant 1 wedi ei wrthod.
I now call for a vote on amendment 1. Open the vote. Close the vote. The vote is tied. As required under Standing Order 6.20, I exercise my casting vote to vote against the amendment. In favour 25, no abstentions, and 26 against. Amendment 1 is not agreed.
Eitem 9. Dadl Plaid Cymru - Polisi cynllunio ar gyfer llinellau pŵer newydd. Gwelliant 1, cyflwynwyd yn enw Jane Hutt: O blaid: 25, Yn erbyn: 25, Ymatal: 0
Gan fod nifer y pleidleisiau yn gyfartal, defnyddiodd y Dirprwy Lywydd ei bleidlais fwrw yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 6.20(ii).
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant
Item 9. Plaid Cymru Debate - Planning policy for new power lines. Amendment 1, tabled in the name of Jane Hutt : For: 25, Against: 25, Abstain: 0
As there was an equality of votes, the Deputy Presiding Officer used his casting vote in accordance with Standing Order 6.20(ii).
Amendment has been rejected
Galwaf am bleidlais ar welliant 2, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 26, neb yn ymatal, 24 yn erbyn. Felly, mae gwelliant 2 wedi ei dderbyn.
I now call for a vote on amendment 2, tabled in the name of Darren Millar. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 26, no abstentions, and 24 against. Therefore, amendment 2 is agreed.
Eitem 9. Dadl Plaid Cymru - Polisi cynllunio ar gyfer llinellau pŵer newydd. Gwelliant 2, cyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar: O blaid: 26, Yn erbyn: 24, Ymatal: 0
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant
Item 9. Plaid Cymru Debate - Planning policy for new power lines. Amendment 2, tabled in the name of Darren Millar: For: 26, Against: 24, Abstain: 0
Amendment has been agreed
Galwaf nawr am bleidlais ar y cynnig wedi ei ddiwygio.
I now call for a vote on the motion as amended.
Cynnig NDM8605 fel y'i diwygiwyd:
Cynnig bod y Senedd:
1. Yn cydnabod y safbwynt a ffefrir gan Lywodraeth Cymru, sef y dylid gosod llinellau pŵer newydd o dan y ddaear lle y bo'n bosibl.
2. Yn credu, lle bynnag y bo hynny'n bosibl, pan fo llinellau pŵer newydd yn cael eu gosod o dan y ddaear y dylid ei wneud drwy ddull aredig ceblau yn hytrach na chloddio ffos agored.
3. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i ddiweddaru paragraff 5.7.9 o Bolisi Cynllunio Cymru:
a) i ddileu’r cafeat presennol: ‘Fodd bynnag, cydnabyddir bod angen cymryd safbwynt cytbwys o ran costau, a allai olygu bod prosiectau a fyddai’n dderbyniol fel arall, yn anhyfyw’; a
b) er mwyn sicrhau bod gosod seilwaith trawsyrru trydan newydd o dan y ddaear yn ofyniad absoliwt yn hytrach na safbwynt a ffefrir, dylai'r polisi nodi: 'dylid gosod llinellau pŵer newydd o dan y ddaear.'
4. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau, yn unol â'r egwyddor ragofalus, y dylid cynnal asesiadau effaith ar iechyd gyda chynigion i osod llinellau pŵer newydd o dan y ddaear pan fydd eu hagosrwydd at gartrefi yn codi pryderon iechyd difrifol yn y dyfodol.
Motion NDM8605 as amended:
To propose that the Senedd:
1. Recognises the preferred position of the Welsh Government that new power lines should be placed underground where possible.
2. Believes that wherever physically possible the undergrounding of new power lines shall be undertaken by way of cable ploughing in preference to open trenching.
3. Calls on the Welsh Government to update Planning Policy Wales paragraph 5.7.9:
a) to remove the existing caveat: ‘however it is recognised that a balanced view must be taken against costs which would render otherwise acceptable projects unviable’; and
b) so that the undergrounding of new infrastructure for conveying electricity shall be an absolute rather than a preferred position, the policy should state: ‘New power lines should be laid underground.’
4. Calls on the Welsh Government to ensure that, in accordance with the precautionary principle, proposals for the undergrounding of new power lines should require health impact assessments when their proximity to dwellings raises serious future health concerns.
Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 25, neb yn ymatal, 25 yn erbyn. Fel sy'n ofynnol o dan Reol Sefydlog 6.20, rwy'n arfer fy mhleidlais fwrw i bleidleisio yn erbyn y cynnig wedi ei ddiwygio. Felly, o blaid 25, neb yn ymatal, 26 yn erbyn. Mae'r cynnig wedi ei ddiwygio wedi ei wrthod.
Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 25, no abstentions, and 25 against. As required under Standing Order 6.20, I exercise my casting vote to vote against the motion as amended. There were in favour 25, no abstentions, and 26 against. The motion as amended is not agreed.
Eitem 9. Dadl Plaid Cymru - Polisi cynllunio ar gyfer llinellau pŵer newydd. Cynnig wedi'i ddiwygio: O blaid: 25, Yn erbyn: 25, Ymatal: 0
Gan fod nifer y pleidleisiau yn gyfartal, defnyddiodd y Dirprwy Lywydd ei bleidlais fwrw yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 6.20(ii).
Gwrthodwyd y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd
Item 9. Plaid Cymru Debate - Planning policy for new power lines. Motion as amended: For: 25, Against: 25, Abstain: 0
As there was an equality of votes, the Deputy Presiding Officer used his casting vote in accordance with Standing Order 6.20(ii).
Motion as amended has been rejected
Daw hynny â thrafodion heddiw i ben.
And that brings today's proceedings to a close.
Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 18:20.
The meeting ended at 18:20