Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru

Good afternoon. Before we move to questions to the First Minister, and in accordance with Standing Order 8.5, I have been notified of the resignation of the Cabinet Secretary for Culture and Social Justice, the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language, and the Cabinet Secretary for Housing, Local Government and Planning. All three have resigned from Government. I have agreed that the First Minister will make a brief personal statement as the first item of business this afternoon.

This is a difficult day for many individuals, their families and their colleagues, and I would ask all Members to bear this in mind during this afternoon’s proceedings, so that we conduct our business thoughtfully and respectfully.  

A personal statement from Vaughan Gething.

Diolch, Llywydd. I have this morning taken the difficult decision to begin the process of stepping down as the leader of the Welsh Labour, and, as a result, the First Minister of Wales. Having been elected as the leader of my party in March this year, I had hoped that, over the summer, a period of reflection, rebuilding and renewal could take place under my leadership. I recognise now that that is not possible. It has been an extraordinary honour to do this job even for a few short months, to see the dedication to public service from our civil servants, and the dedication to civility from the Welsh public, to see the election of a new Labour Government in Westminster for the first time in 14 years, and the fresh hope that I believe that brings to Wales.

I have always pursued my political career to serve Wales, and being able to show under-represented communities that there is a place for them, for us, is an honour and a privilege that will never diminish. It is what drew me into public service. Before becoming a Member of the Senedd, I was a trade union shop steward. I was an employment lawyer for the largest trade union law firm in the country. I fought employment cases for people who had been mistreated at work. I wanted to give power to those without a voice, to help to make our country a better place for all of us. That has always been my motivation. I campaigned to help create the Senedd, clocking up 30 years of work to support Wales’s devolution journey.

This has been an incredibly difficult time for me and for my family. A growing assertion that some kind of wrongdoing has taken place has been pernicious, politically motivated and patently untrue. I have worked hard, followed the rules and done really difficult and demanding jobs for my country. In 11 years as a Minister, I have never ever made a decision for personal gain. I have never ever misused or abused my ministerial position. My integrity matters. I have not compromised it. I regret that the burden of proof is no longer an important commodity in the language of our politics, and I do hope, for all of our sakes, that that can change.

I will now discuss with the Welsh executive of my party a timetable for the election of a new leader of Welsh Labour. I will then confirm a timetable to formally stand down as the First Minister of my country.

I do, though, want to say 'thank you' to those who have reached out to support me, my team and my family in recent weeks, including today. It really does mean a great deal. To those people in Wales who look like me, many of whom I know feel personally bruised and worried by this moment, I know that our country can be better, must be better. I know that cannot happen without us. There will, and there must be, in a future, a Government that looks like the country it serves, a Government for all of us, to make Wales a better place, with, and for, all of us. Diolch, Llywydd. Thank you. [Applause.]

Thank you, First Minister, for that statement.  

The next item is questions to the First Minister, and the first question this afternoon is from Siân Gwenllian. 

Creating more affordable housing to meet the needs of people in Wales is a priority for this Government. We have set record levels of investment in housing in this Senedd term. The affordable homes taskforce, due to be led by Jack Sargeant, will identify further opportunities to support and advance the delivery of affordable housing here in Wales.

For a few hours now, your Government hasn't had a Cabinet Secretary with responsibility for housing, and you will be standing down too. On a personal level, I wish you well. But the chaos in the Labour Party over the past two months is unforgivable. It has meant unneccessary delay to the work of the Government, including the delaying of the publication of the White Paper, to discuss making it a right for everyone to have a roof over their heads, which is a vital part of tackling the housing crisis. Will the White Paper see the light of day? The internal chaos of the Labour Party has meant that there has been no focus on delivering change to improve the lives of the people of Wales across every field of endeavour. This isn't the way to govern, and the people of Wales have lost all faith in the ability of Labour to govern. 

Well, obviously, I don't share the Member's view. I recognise there's a lot of politics that goes on in this Chamber and outside it. Actually, despite all the noise in this place, we have got on with doing our job in these last three and a half months. We have carried on with the plans we had made before. I've recommitted to them in the legislative programme. I've made clear where we are with our budget allocations. We have allocated £1.4 billion so far this Senedd term to support social housing. We know there is more for us to do. In fact, we didn't just protect the social housing budget, we awarded an additional £61 million on top of the original £300 million budget for the social housing grant.

I believe that there is a future for people in Wales where we have to make sure people really do have a place to call home. That's why we continue to invest in social housing. It's why also I spoke about the affordable homes taskforce, to understand what we can practically do to deliver homes for people here in Wales. That work will continue. I am confident and positive about what my party can do in Government and go before the people of Wales in 2026. I look forward to my party choosing from each of our members in a one member, one vote contest to decide who that person will be. But I will carry on doing my duty for my country until such time as a new person is elected to take my place.

The Finance Committee now has found that, for young people, particularly in rural areas, to be able to live and work in their communities, greater priority needs to be given to creating sustainable jobs and building affordable housing. Little has changed since the 2008 Joseph Rowntree Foundation rural housing in Wales report found a significant level of unmet housing need in rural Wales, with problems of affordability more acute, homelessness levels increasing more sharply and social housing supply more limited than in urban areas. The Country Land and Business Association's reopened Welsh housing survey found that 58 per cent of private rented sector properties were let out at below market rent, yet Welsh Government policy is ridding rural areas of urgently needed rentable homes, with the properties being sold just as likely to be used as second homes or holiday lets as affordable homes. So, other than commissioning a rural housing action guide, what cost-benefit analysis, if any, will the Welsh Government now undertake to establish what works? Listening to statements by local businesses that Gwynedd Council's plan to force people to get planning permission for second homes was penalising homeowners there— 

I am going to have to cut across. Can we get to the question, please? 

Well, I am in the middle of the question—I asked what cost-benefit analysis has been undertaken—about penalising homeowners because not enough affordable homes have been built.

Well, it’s a question for Gwynedd Council—the powers are in their hands to make choices about the local housing market. We’ve changed the use class in planning terms between primary residence, secondary residence and short-term lets. There’s a balance in each of those to make each community viable and worth while. It’s exactly the conversation we had at scrutiny of the First Minister on Friday. The balance we make is that there’s enough supply in both the private sector and the social rented sector for local homes, and the understanding of how many second homes there are in each area. Councils have the ability now to have additional premia for those second homes if they choose to do so. This i part of the point about devolution itself—it doesn’t just stop here in Cardiff Bay; there are choices for local authorities to make to be accountable to their own local electorate. Then you get to how many short-term lets should there be. That’s a choice that local authorities are there to make—they have a mandate to do that. Whether it’s Gwynedd, whether it’s Cardiff, whether it’s Swansea, Pembrokeshire or Wrexham, they all have their own mandates and their responsibility. That’s the choice they need to make.

I want to see a thriving visitor economy that takes place within a thriving local community. It’s what people feel special about, and not just the landscape, to be part of a community. The cost-benefit analysis is one that each local authority needs to undertake in deciding how to use the powers we have created for them to exercise and be accountable for. Our ambition is to increase housing supply—it’s one of the top priorities—to meet our target to create 20,000 high-quality, low-carbon, affordable homes in this Senedd term. Despite the budget inheritance we’ve had from Liz Truss and your other friends, we will continue to strain every sinew to make sure we can do that for the people of Wales. But, thank you for the question.

We have too many empty houses, including large houses in popular areas. Most Members in here would have come across some when they were out campaigning during the general election. Wales, like the rest of Britian, has not created the number of co-operative houses that north America and continental Europe has. The only time that housing need was met was when we had the large-scale building of council houses in the 1950s and 1960s. I've previously asked for legislation to allow councils to compulsory purchase properties after they've been empty for five years. I'm also asking for a plan for large-scale council house building in order to meet housing need.

Some councils have been building homes. It’s the ability to do that at the scale that’s required that’s the challenge. It’s why the affordable homes taskforce has been created, to understand how you can bring forward and get through obstacles that exist, because housing isn’t just an issue for a person that needs a safe and decent place to call home; it’s also an opportunity to do something about our responsibilities to the climate, to make sure we have high-quality homes, low-carbon homes that are energy efficient. It’s also something that goes into investing in the local economy. Lots of housing jobs are ones where people work within a local radius as well.

I recognise the Member’s point, though, around how you can change some of the points around tenure and land use. Other European countries have a very different approach and the culture has built up over time. It’s not quite like ours. I do hope, though, that a future Government in this place will look at what we can do within the budget envelope we have, but also to see whether changing the legislative framework will allow more co-operative housing to be brought forward as one of the alternative forms of tenure that can give people a stake in where they live, to create the number and the supply of homes we need now and for the future.

Thank you for the question. The Welsh Government recognises the importance of a healthy diet and good nutrition. We support this through a range of initiatives, including the Healthy Start scheme, free school meals for primary pupils and measures to support people during the ongoing cost-of-living crisis.

Thank you. First Minister, figures obtained by the Wales on Sunday newspaper show at least 955 patients have been diagnosed with malnutrition in Wales since 2021, with many more across the UK as a whole, as highlighted by the UN rapporteur in his special report on poverty and disability across the UK. The Aneurin Bevan University Health Board, which serves the communities of Islwyn that I represent, has reported 250 cases from 1 January 2021 up to 1 May. These are, indeed, shocking statistics in Wales in 2024. First Minister, it’s clear that the legacy of the 14 failed years of the Tories governing the United Kingdom is one of foodbanks, an induced cost-of-living crisis and endemic poverty causing real suffering. Age Cymru’s policy officer, Helen Twidle, is quoted as saying the number of people admitted to hospital in Wales with malnutrition is a source of shame. So, First Minister, what support has the Welsh Government made to support community food organisations in Islwyn to tackle food poverty? What support does the Welsh Government provide to Welsh families to safeguard against malnutrition occurring? And what role does public policy instigated by the UK Conservative Government play in these shocking incidents?

The Member is right to point out the shocking reality that malnutrition is a reality in twenty-first century Wales. There is a direct correlation with the tax and benefit reforms that have taken place. The impact of tax and benefit reforms from 2010 until now has been to reduce the incomes of the least well-off 40 per cent of households by 10 per cent of their income, and that has real consequences, especially for those families with children. We don't just continue to try to promote the healthy choice to make it the easy choice for food; we have a range of things we have done, especially for families with children.

I'm very proud of the free school meals policy that we've introduced and the budgets we have voted for to make that happen, what that means for the 20 million free school meals that have been delivered and the work we continue to do on the Healthy Start programme to ensure that people actually have access to high-quality food and nutrition. The challenge will go on, though. As long as we continue to live through a cost-of-living crisis, as long as we have a tax and benefits system that doesn't help to raise children out of poverty, then I'm afraid the shocking reality of people living with malnutrition in Wales is likely to continue. I am optimistic, though, that with the current UK Government and a proper partnership we will be able to address the genuine evil of malnutrition in twenty-first century Wales. 

First Minister, I'd like to wish you and your family all the very best for the future.

While severe malnutrition is rare across Wales, overweight and obesity rates amongst our children are some of the highest across any of the developed world. A lot of children are starting as overweight when they get to school, and that's something that should concern every single one of us, because that is a huge future strain on our health service. So, First Minister, could you outline today what steps the Welsh Government is taking to tackle obesity rates in our young people, to make sure that this can actually be prevented, before people get to obese stages, to actually make sure that they're fit and healthy going into schools? Because obesity is going to be one of the biggest crises facing our NHS in the future.

There are two things there. The first is that, just in terms of the data that the child measurement programme provides for us, it actually shows that, since the pandemic, we have slightly fewer children who are obese or overweight. The challenge, though, is that actually it is more than 10 per cent. So, it's actually a significant proportion of our population. It's why the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care has actually made tackling the obesity crisis that we face a key priority for her. It's not just about adults, it is about children as well. It's about understanding the point that I made earlier in response to Rhianon Passmore, how you make the healthy choice an easier choice—what that means for diet, what it means for food and drink, what it means for exercise and how you understand how you make choices.

For me, it goes to the heart of the fact that this is one of the things you can get right in the first 1,000 days in a child's life. Not all of the challenges are resolved in 1,001 days, but getting the pattern right for that child's life, how you support that family to understand all the strengths they have, and the importance of the choices that you make as a parent, I think, can and will make a real difference, as well as supporting people to make healthier choices, to access the support they need to try to do something about their own weight—not because it's the right thing for the Government or the NHS, but because it's the right thing for them and their family, and in a way that is genuinely supportive. We've never managed to do that successfully, and it's why I am very supportive of the approach being taken by the Cabinet Secretary for health to recognise this as a challenge that has to be confronted and addressed across the whole country. It's one for the whole Government and, indeed, the whole of society as well.

Children are going hungry because, in 66.2 per cent of UK constituencies, there are more than one in four children living in poverty. In Wales, it's 84.4 per cent. The First Minister pointed to benefit reforms as having a role in this, and data released last week by the Department for Work and Pensions showed that 1.6 million children now live in households hit by the two-child benefit cap. A report last month by Loughborough University showed that more than 65,000 children in Wales are affected directly by this policy. A coalition of 120 organisations have called for this immoral policy to be scrapped, as it creates and entrenches child poverty, putting enormous pressure on public services and making it harder for children to fulfil their potential. So, do you agree that the new UK Labour Government should scrap the two-child limit if they are to make any progress in tackling child poverty? And please don't say that there's no money, when the UK is one of the richest nations in the world. Extra money has been found for weapons, and the cost of getting rid of the cap is nothing compared to the cost of keeping it.

I'm very proud of the record of the previous Labour Government that I knocked doors for, campaigned for and saw come in in 1997. That Government lifted hundreds of thousands of children out of poverty by deliberate choices. Over half a million children were lifted out of poverty. In the manifesto that has seen 27 out of 32 Welsh Labour MPs returned here in Wales, there is a commitment to reviewing the benefit system and a commitment to lifting children out of poverty again, because we recognise it'll take a whole-government approach to resolving that—yes, to reform benefits, but also to do something about making work pay. That's why having economic stability is so important, to understand how you grow the economy for more people to be able to make their own choices, to be able to feed and clothe their family properly.

I am proud of the manifesto that Welsh Labour MPs were elected on, and as I've said repeatedly, if that manifesto is delivered it will make a real difference to the economy and to public services and it will see hundreds of thousands of children lifted out of poverty again, in line with the manifesto commitment that the people of Wales supported at the last election.

Questions now from the party leaders. The leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Andrew R.T. Davies. 

Thank you, Presiding Officer. First Minister, in the 17 years that I've been in this institution, I don't think you and I have ever shared a lift. This morning, the doors opened and you were standing there. I stretched out my hand to shake your hand and wish you all the best for the future. Sadly, you declined that hand. I do, as I stand here, wish you and your family all the very best because, ultimately, I don't underestimate what has gone on over the last couple of weeks and months.

But could I ask this question of you today? Was it the acceptance of the £200,000 donation to your leadership campaign or was it your appointment of your leadership contender and his leadership team to your Cabinet that ultimately cost you the role of First Minister?

Yet again the Member demonstrates his good faith. I look forward to people in Wales continuing to exercise their judgment at the ballot box. It's for all of us to try to persuade people to vote for us and the vision we provide.

I am very clear about my own integrity. I'm very clear about the reality that today has meant that it's not possible to carry on to be the First Minister. Other people will have their own views, and I'm sure he already has his. I look forward, though, to seeing not just the rejection of the Conservatives in the general election, and the election of 27 out of 32 MPs from Wales being Welsh Labour MPs, but what a new First Minister will do with their mandate to lead Wales and, as I said at the start of this session, to make Wales a better country with and for all of us.

The important thing here, First Minister, is to understand whether the Labour group in this Senedd are so riven that you are unable to complete that mandate. In your assessment you have indicated that you believe that the Labour group can gather around a successor to you. Is that your assessment of the events that have taken place over the last couple of weeks and months—that the Labour group can get to 2026 with a Government here in the Senedd led by a new First Minister?

Of course we can, and whatever happens in the leadership contest to come, the people of Wales will decide who comes to this place in an expanded Senedd. Then it will be for everyone who is elected here to make choices about how the Government of Wales functions to make a difference with and for the people it is our privilege to serve.

As I say, I'm proud of my record, and all the things I have done before coming here and since coming here in 11 years as being a Minister. I'm sad that today sees the start of that process coming to an end, but I remain full of optimism about what this place can do and about what Welsh Labour leadership can provide to my country and all the people who are proud to call Wales their home.

The key thing for people from the outside, the voters, is that they can have confidence that Wales can be governed going forward and that we are delivering on the priorities that people have sent us here to deliver on: waiting times, education, the economy, the environment. Those are what people want to see the politicians deliver on.

As I said in my opening remarks, I wish you all the very best going forward, First Minister, but it is vital now that this uncertainty is clarified and a clear timetable is put in place so voters can understand that politics is continuing here in Wales and the Government is continuing to govern. I appreciate you said in your opening remarks that you have requested the Labour general secretary—or chairwoman or chairman—to put in place that leadership election so that someone can come forward to succeed you. Can you elaborate on the timetable for when you believe that information will become clear, and, ultimately, how quickly you believe that can be undertaken so that that political leadership here in the Bay can maintain the political role that we are elected to, which is to deliver for the people of Wales?

I will continue to be the First Minister until this place chooses a successor and the King appoints the chosen successor that this place will elect. I've been clear that the executive of Welsh Labour, to be correct, will determine not just the rules but the timetable for a contest. That will then set out very clearly what will happen within our party, and this place will then need to decide whether it wishes to support that person as the leader of the largest group, or otherwise to choose someone else. The Government will continue. Decisions will continue to be made. 

I think his arguments would have more force if they were rather more genuine. When you consider the divisions that the UK has been subject to from his own party, when you consider the reality of how long the replacement Conservative leadership contest is going to take at a UK level, I just don't think it sits very well to come here and to demand answers and a timetable on the hoof today. My party will make choices about how the contest will take place. Early in the autumn, a new person will be stood here as the leader of Welsh Labour, and this place will need to decide whether to elect that person as the candidate to be First Minister. I look forward to the King confirming the choice that this Senedd chooses to make, as you would expect in the functioning democracy that we are privileged to have created and that serves our country.

Leader of Plaid Cymru, Rhun ap Iorwerth. 

Diolch, Llywydd. The First Minister has made the right decision today, and I personally wish him well. He will have been under immense pressure over the past few weeks, and I, for one, have never doubted his sense of public service.

This, however, is a decision that should have been taken many weeks ago. Once the £200,000 donation and associated matters became clear—its source, the solar farm application, the development bank loan—his response should have been to acknowledge his poor judgment and to recognise the very real perceptions created. When allegations came to light of the deleting of messages, the response we got was the sacking of a Minister, and, to this day, we still don't really know what process was followed. And throughout, the First Minister has chosen to blame others—journalists, opposition politicians—for scrutinising him, rather than accepting the errors of his own actions.

For months, the lack of good sense of the First Minister and his unwillingness to be scrutinised has undermined the role of the First Minister and has brought Welsh politics into disrepute. Very seldom does the head of a Government in a democracy ignore the will of the legislature despite losing a vote of confidence; he had to go.   

He was pushed, ultimately, by the resignation of four Ministers, all four of whom voted to declare their confidence in him recently. Their opportunity to show decisive action had long passed. Keir Starmer himself stood by him throughout, either oblivious to or ignorant of the public view of our First Minister's actions. The Labour Party as a whole has been tainted by this and Wales deserves better than a revolving door of Labour First Ministers. The chaos must end and an election must be called. Will he allow Wales to have its voice heard?

Thank you for the speech and the couple of questions. I think when you go through everything that's happened, you can be clear—. And go back through the points that the Member has tried to make again in the smearing that takes place. The solar farm is nothing to do with me as the First Minister. I can't get involved in that because it's in my constituency. I've been clear about that. The Development Bank of Wales have been clear that they didn't take any directions from any Minister. It would be sinister if the Government chose to intervene in favour, or otherwise, in any of the applications that the development bank undertakes, yet the Member continues to pursue matters that he knows are not related to my conduct. And falling back to claim this is about perception—that is a charter for bad faith, and the Member knows that. If our politics is going to serve the country, then some of us, at least, have to have some integrity about the way we go about our jobs, including the criticism of other people. And when it comes to scrutiny, I have been here every week, as required by the First Minister, answering questions at length in this Chamber. I've not hidden during the election campaign; I've gone out, I've been front and centre. I haven't found a convenient fridge to hide in. I've done my job for my country. He doesn't have to agree with it. That's about having a functioning democracy, and that's perfectly reasonable. But the idea that there is a misunderstanding or a lack of clarity about the process that has been followed, and a range of other things, is not one that I accept. The facts have been there and have been explained, have been acknowledged, even by him in this Chamber.

There is a choice for people to make, and some people chose to leave the Government today, and that has consequences. I will continue to do my job until a replacement is found, then that person will have all the choices to make, as the First Minister of Wales, about who to appoint and how to run a programme to try to improve our country, which is exactly as it should be.

This is about more than just the actions of a First Minister, it's about Labour's collective approach. After 25 years leading Welsh Government, Labour have proved themselves unable, I think, to address the significant challenges that we face as a nation: when businesses have been struggling, Labour have increased business rates; our economy fails to prosper; with a third of our children living in poverty, Labour are unwilling, still, to set targets to measure progress; its poor education results; record waiting lists; lack of support for rural Wales—the list goes on. Does the First Minister consider that to be the legacy of all those who maintained confidence in him for so long?

I think people can be very positive about what we have done in the last 25 years. People in Wales have chosen to elect Welsh Labour to continue to lead devolution, from the outset. We've had to work across party lines to do so, but we still have a remarkable record to be proud of. If you think what we did, not just on the future generations—I think what we have done to actually raise productivity in the time of devolution, that has actually happened. Think about where we were on the economy. Wales was used to being stubbornly above the UK when it comes to unemployment rates; the position is now reversed. You regularly expect Wales to have a lower level of unemployment. We still have more challenges to confront—that is what this place is supposed to be for.

I understand the Member wants to run a long campaign into 2026, as he's entitled to do, but the choice is: how does this place function, with a budget that has been reduced by hundreds of millions in real terms, by the Conservatives in the last three years, and, of course, the much greater pain and difficulty we've had in the last 14 years? It's honest to say to people: that attack on our budget, that reduction, has a real consequence of what we are able to do. And yet, still, we have been able to make real progress.

There is still more for us to do, more for us to do in delivering our groundbreaking curriculum, in delivering on improving attainment, on attendance, and the additional learning needs reforms we have. You can look through every portfolio and see real action being taken by Welsh Labour Ministers for our country. That is what we will go on doing, that is what we will then go with to the public to ask them for their verdict at the ballot box, and I'm sure people will judge on whether a free pass should be given to the Tories for what they have done, but also the judgment on what we have done with the powers, the responsibilities and the means that we have had at our disposal here in Wales.

I believe, though, that the Welsh public has judged that Government has not been able to operate, over the past three months, because of the scandals around our First Minister. And those past three months have been a classic case, I think, of party before country: not rocking the boat here until the UK election was done. We were promised a better deal by having Labour in power at Westminster and in Cardiff Bay. Well, the early signs aren't great. This doesn't feel like a Welsh Government intent on holding UK Government to account. The relationship has to be one of constructive challenge, not of being in constant lockstep. And we've heard it again today, on the issue of the continuation of the two-child benefit cap.

There are many differences between the Labour Party and Plaid Cymru. Too often we see Labour diluting our asks and stifling our ambitions. I fear we're already seeing loyalty to Westminster trumping duty to Wales. Now, this difference will be on the ballot paper at the next Senedd election. If the outgoing First Minister is so confident in his approach, why won’t he trust the people of Wales to make the call?

The Member is entitled to say he opposes the UK Government that’s just been elected across the UK, and indeed with the support of 27 out of 32 Welsh MPs. He’s entitled to say he disagrees with it and that he wants to have a constant challenge. He’s entitled to go out and say you should question the faith that is invested in the partnership for progress that I believe is available for us. It’s a democracy; he’s entitled to do that. What I do not accept he’s entitled to do, Llywydd, is to question the loyalty of Welsh Labour Members in this place or in the UK Parliament to Wales. We have a different vision about how Wales could and should be governed and run, the different opportunities. I am absolutely passionate in my commitment to this country and the people that it’s been my privilege to serve, whether as an employment lawyer or as a Member of this place. And we will put before the public our competing visions for that future, the improvement that I want to see in every community, in the economy, in public services and how we look at ourselves, the ambition we should have for our country, to recognise, for all of our challenges, there are many parts of what we do here in Wales that are groundbreaking and internationally recognised. I want that ambition for my country, together with achievement to go alongside it. That is what my party will offer to the people of Wales at the next election, and it will be for them to choose, but do not ever question my loyalty to my country or that to my Welsh Labour colleagues.

May I also wish the First Minister well and thank him for his years of service?

The landscape for independent sexual violence adviser funding is complex. Many specialist sector posts are funded by multiple sources, including the Welsh Government's violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence budget, UK Government departments and other funders. The Welsh Government therefore does not currently hold comprehensive data on posts.

I thank the First Minister for that response. Of course, the statistics on sexual harassment are far too familiar for all of us: 97 per cent of women between 18 and 24 years old experience sexual harassment here in the UK, but the situation in north Wales is even more concerning, with this region having amongst the highest rates of sexual crimes in the whole of the UK.

ISVAs do excellent work in providing support for victims of sexual crime, but the truth is that there aren’t enough of them available for those who need this core support. So, what plans does the Welsh Government have to expand the support for victims, and does the First Minister agree that ISVA provision should be statutory and available in all local authorities?

Well, I look forward to what we can practically do, and the approach we have in looking at the blueprints that were started by my colleague Jane Hutt during her time in a different role in the Government to see what we can actually undertake to make a practical difference in an area that is still reserved, but where we are key partners, because many devolved services are part of how you support people. What we actually need to see is a reduction in the level of violence and abuse against women and girls in the first place. That’s why I’m very proud that in my party’s manifesto we have committed as a first step to halving that level over the next decade, and there will be more we need to do. That is both about what the police and other services do to support people who have been victims of violence and abuse. It is much more so about changing the way our country works, and actually that is about people recognising that what currently takes place is not acceptable, and how you change that in the first place as well as supporting people who have had crimes committed against them.

I’m proud of the work we’ve done, and I’m proud also of the work of the north Wales police and crime commissioner in working across partnerships. I believe the commitment of the current UK Government to make a difference, to reduce violence against women and girls, to make sure that people are caught and prosecuted, to make sure people are properly supported, is one that we can work with here in Wales. I look forward to seeing how that partnership works between this Government and whoever leads it, and the new team within the Home Office and beyond. This will only work if reserved powers are made to work properly, and indeed the devolved support services are able to make sure we can make a difference for a whole range of people and change what currently takes place in our country far too often.

I’ve got to be honest, it’s very disappointing that you’re unable to answer fully the question asked by my colleague Mabon. At the end of the day, I think it’s imperative that you do know how many of these independent advisers we have available, and I want to put on record that it was a privilege, many years ago when I was first in this place, to work alongside the late Carl Sargeant, who did so much hard work, so much good work to ensure that women could feel protected. So, it is something I would ask your Government to actually focus on and look at again.

Domestic abuse is one of the silent killers of our time. Almost one third of women aged over 15 years report they have been subjected to violence by an intimate partner in their lifetime. More than 56 per cent of women murdered last year, worldwide, were killed following domestic violence. In north Wales 13,000 domestic abuse-related crimes are recorded in a single year. We cannot keep overlooking this. In the last World Cup, in 2022, cases of domestic violence involving alcohol saw a 47 per cent rise on days when England won, and an 18 per cent increase on days after an England match. What steps are you then taking, Welsh Government and First Minister, at this moment in time, to address this link between alcohol, major sporting events, domestic abuse, and also looking to protect our women, in the main? Diolch.

I should have said, in response to the first question, that Welsh Government has committed to undertaking an exercise—I think it's been written to her about—which is going to ensure that the information we have is robust and accurate, and we'll provide an update once that exercise has been undertaken. So, the data will be provided, once we understand where that comes from.

Look, in terms of the questions asked by the Member for Aberconwy, we understand that there is a link between sporting events, alcohol, domestic violence and abuse, and it's a shameful link. It's why, over time, I think governing bodies of major sporting events have got better at asking and trying to be role models, and have a clear message about what is not acceptable. The challenge is how you have that whole-society change. How people don't just say something, but they mean it and do it, to recognise the impact of their own behaviour and how you support people to recognise they should not have to put up with the behaviour the Member describes.

Now, I think we have made real steps forward in this institution in wanting to shift that national conversation, make practical support available. We'll only be able to get to where we should be if we're able to work with an effective Government across the UK, which has powers and responsibilities in those areas that do not wholly rest here, and it's how we get there, not if we get there, and that's why I'm proud that there's a manifesto commitment of the current Government to actually do something to significantly reduce the violence and abuse that women and girls are currently subjected to, as a first step, before then regathering to understand what comes next. It is more than one thing, and this place, I hope, will continue to play its part in being part of being on the right side of all of this.

Paragraph 1.7 of the ministerial code sets out how complaints will be investigated.

Could I just say at the outset, at a personal level, Vaughan, I realise how difficult a day this will be for you and how sad a day it will be for those who are close to you and care for you? And I think, as the Llywydd said, whatever our disagreements, whatever our differences, I think, at times like this, it is important that we all, as well, show some kindness and empathy.

I think one of the lessons for me, of the painful last few months, is that when trust evaporates, everything else that we're all called into politics to do, the reason that we're all here, that we want to make a difference in people's lives—that becomes impossible in the absence of trust. And I think it's probably to avoid that sort of political paralysis that the Labour Government in Westminster is committed to creating an independent ethics commissioner that will have independent oversight of the ministerial code. It will be able to initiate its own investigations and investigate breaches and publish reports. Do you think, if we had a system like that in place here, we could have avoided some of the pain of the last few months, some of the damage done to trust in democracy, and some of the toll that this has had on you and others in this Senedd?

Well, I've set out, not only today, but on a number of occasions, points about my integrity that have simply not been accepted by other people. I don't think changing the ministerial code or the way it's investigated would change much about that. That's just about the brutal business of politics and what you can get away with. If you look at what has happened today, when I published a written statement, with images, about the removal of the former Minister for Social Partnership, it sets out what did happen. It sets out why the evidence is so clear, as I said, that I can be pretty clear that there was a photograph of that Member's phone. Now, everything I'd said before then was about trying to avoid all the events of last week that have rolled on and on and on. I've done that in trying to protect other people, and I've been prepared to take flak and criticism for doing that, and that is exactly what has happened. But I expected at some point that there'd be a pause that recognised that what I'd said was actually the truth, and that didn't happen. And that's why today I published information that sets out in very simple terms how and why that conclusion was reached. I had wanted not to do that, for reasons that go to how you try to protect and look after people. That's the way I've behaved, and it's the behaviour that matters. The process—. You can always look at process improvements, and I wouldn't say that we should say that the process is perfect and nothing else can happen. It's part of the reason why the work that the standards committee is doing on how we improve processes, not just for Ministers but for each and every one of us as Members of the Senedd, is so important, to understand how we have coherence in our system. I think that really matters. But, ultimately, it's about behaviour and choices, and, yes, judgment. My judgment was that I was doing the right thing in trying to protect other people. That isn't what has happened in the end, because we still ended up reaching the position we are in today. Other people need to reflect on what they wish to do in the future and how they exercise their own judgments, and I hope all Members take that seriously.

First Minister, there's an inconsistency, isn't there, between a Labour Party that had a clear manifesto commitment to deliver some change at a UK Government level in order to prevent any future Prime Minister being the judge, jury and executioner when it comes to investigations around the ministerial code by introducing this new ethics and integrity commission—you, and others on your benches, campaigned for that approach at the recent general election. And yet here you seem to be defending the status quo, which, frankly, has, unfortunately, left you in a position where your position has become untenable. It certainly contributed, unfortunately, to the position that you find yourself in today.

I heard you make reference to the committee on standards of conduct and the work that it is doing, but that is purely and simply around the conduct of Members of this Senedd, rather than Ministers in your Government or any future Government. So, can I ask you again, and appeal to all of the Members of the Labour Party, because I don't know who may or may not emerge as the leader of your group in the future, to really consider seriously picking up this? There's not a lot in that Labour manifesto I supported, but one of the things I did support was this approach in relation to the ethics and integrity commission and the role that it can have to play in the future, so would you not reconsider your position that you've just outlined, on the basis of the fact that you just campaigned for a very different approach in the general election?

If the Member had listened to my response to Adam Price, he would have heard that I'm open to improvements. I'm always open to seeing what we could do differently and better. There is yet to be a new system in place across the UK, and, when we look at changes that have been made, as I said about standards generally, there are some things that have been changed in Westminster that I don't think we should follow. For example, I think it was positive to have a recall mechanism in the UK Parliament, and that's why the Government has been clear about supporting a method for that to happen now and ready for 2026. We're in the difficult and painful position because of issues that have happened within our Parliament, and they could happen in any party as well. I think we need to recognise that it's not about having rules for one person or for one party—rules for all of us. But I don’t think Westminster’s got it right on the way it approaches some of the harassment provisions they’ve got. They have, essentially, a dual process, and I think that leads to inconsistency that does not protect the Member who could be subject to a complaint, or, indeed, the person making that complaint. So, we'll, of course, look, and whoever the next Minister First Minister is I’m sure will look, at what is taking place, engage in a constructive conversation with colleagues about whether our processes need to change.

I think, though, the Member should have the humility to recognise that the reason why that commitment is there is because of breaches from the previous UK Government, where investigations were undertaken and rejected. That’s what led to the resignation of a previous adviser. And I think it’s important to reflect. The undermining of trust that has taken place in large parts of politics is something that could and should worry all of us, and I believe it’s something that this place will need to play its part in looking to resolve. I hope that the way a new First Minister looks at what may take place in the UK Government about resolving or changing the way it addresses matters could be part of that, and I hope a new settlement on a cross-party basis from our current standards committee work could also be part of that. That should be good for all of us, and, indeed, the different communities we serve.

Thank you. In the under two weeks since the election, I have had conversations with the Prime Minister, the Secretary of State for Wales and the Secretary of State for Business and Trade, all of whom have demonstrated an understanding of the many ways we can work together to unlock opportunities for economic growth here in Wales.

Diolch, First Minister. It's certainly impressive to see the way that Keir Starmer's Government has hit the ground running across a range of policy areas, but one particularly impressive intervention is the creation of the national wealth fund to invest in the new industries of the future by bringing together key institutions and offering a compelling proposition for investors. What discussions has the Welsh Government had with its UK counterpart about how this national wealth fund can be used to boost economic growth in Wales?

I'm really glad the Member has highlighted this. It's part of the conversation I had with the then shadow Chancellor immediately before the election of the UK Labour Government. I also had this conversation with the Secretary of State for Business and Trade after his appointment and, indeed, with the Prime Minister when he was here last week. The national wealth fund is looking to create £7.3 billion of additional public sector funding, with the aim and the ambition of generating at least £3 of extra private sector investment on top of that. What it should do, though, is significantly increase opportunities here in Wales. Take just one example, the £1.8 billion that is due to be invested in ports. We saw, in the last Government, when they made choices around a ports investment fund, it was £160 million, so, actually, in terms of the scale of the opportunity, it simply didn't match that. But, more than that, they actually made a choice to invest in Port Talbot without investing in Milford Haven, which doesn't actually make sense; the two, in terms of the free port opportunity, and opportunities around the Celtic sea more generally, there's a partnership between them. So, having more to invest, and choosing where strategically to invest, should make a real difference for us here in Wales. And that is a sector where there are not just opportunities to do the right thing for the planet, but to do the right thing for the local economy, to get the supply chains, and good-quality jobs here in Wales could and should come from that. Ports investment is a key to one of those things to unlock it. So, I think, when you look through the national wealth fund, there are real opportunities for Wales, and the way to generate those is to actually have a proper partnership for progress, and that is what I believe this Welsh Labour Government should aim to deliver, and then be proud of what we have managed to do to significantly improve economic growth and prospects here in Wales.

We are gearing up to work in genuine partnership with the new UK Government, building on the productive work of Lord Burns and Lord Hendy. Lord Hendy, of course, is now a Minister in the UK Government. All of this should help us to improve integrated transport, not just for Newport East, but across south-east Wales and beyond.

Yes. First Minister, following that decision not to proceed with the M4 relief road around Newport, the Burns commission set out that vision for a truly integrated transport system for Newport and around—so, more and better bus services, rail services, and, indeed, a better road system. Understandably, given the time that's elapsed since then, many local people are impatient to see change on the scale and of the significance that's required, and that sort of change, the scale of it, will require that partnership between Welsh Government and our new UK Labour Government. So, at this stage—it's early days, obviously, First Minister, but—can you say something to local people in Newport and, indeed, the wider south-east Wales area, as you mentioned, about how Welsh Government is working with our new UK Labour Government around the Burns commission proposals and around that scale and nature of investment that we badly need to see?

In terms of Newport, and I'll restrict myself to Newport, so I don't transgress into constituency matters myself, there are opportunities for new rail stations in the Newport area. There are also opportunities to improve rapid bus links between Cardiff and Newport, all of which will be required if we are to address the amount of traffic that still and will continue to take place, together with the decision not to construct an M4 relief road. I should make it clear that I believe that decision has been made, and I don't think that'll be revisited. It's about how we make the Burns commission report and the delivery unit recommendations actually things we can invest in.

Professor Simon Gibson is the independent chair of the delivery unit. The Welsh Government has invested over £10 million to develop proposals to take forward the Burns recommendations. I believe we do now have a window, with a new UK Labour Government, to actually see co-investment in what that could look like, because, of course, rail infrastructure is not devolved. We'll need to see development in that to deliver against the Burns recommendations, and I believe the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales will respond to the third report of the delivery unit to set out where we are and the initial conversations that we are already having with the UK Labour Government. 

Thank you. The Welsh Government has continued to deliver against the digital and data strategy for health and social care. We continue to establish and work collaboratively with the AI commission. We've adopted guidance on algorithmic transparency, and continue to work with partners to enable the safe and ethical use of AI in health and social care.

Thank you, First Minister. You'll know the potential benefits of AI are significant in fields like healthcare. Take, for example, the AI system developed by Moorfields Eye Hospital and University College London, which has the potential to identify sight-threatening eye diseases and also predict or identify other health conditions, such as heart attacks and stroke. This system has been made open source and freely available across the world, as an example of the NHS at its best, with the potential to be absolutely transformative. Of course, I'm sure you'd agree that Wales should be at the forefront of this as well, not looking to miss out on any opportunities that would better predict, prevent and treat serious health issues. So, First Minister, I wonder what conversations you and your Government are having to ensure that this cutting-edge innovation comes to Wales and that health AI specialists look at Wales as a place to invest in and build a health service fit for decades to come.

We have real opportunities to do just that. We already see AI being deployed across our health service. The challenge is how much more we can do, in particular in the area of imaging and diagnostics, where AI can assist clinicians to make diagnoses. It should also help us to deal with how we make the health service more productive, which is the big challenge for us, to have AI alongside clinicians making choices, making better use and more productive use of their time.

I'll give the Member an example. We have something called Brainomix e-Stroke AI that is now available across all health boards, and that is actually helping us to better diagnose what happens before and after a stroke. It is enhancing stroke care already in every health board. It's one of those areas where some of this progress is already being made right across the country, but we don't have the opportunity to talk about it and be proud of it and then see what comes next. Actually, there is always going to be a challenge in understanding we have evidence-based interventions, and AI changes the field on that. But it is why the process that we go through with Health Technology Wales to understand the evidence base is a strength for us, and other parts of the world already look at Wales as an area where there's a real opportunity, because of the integrated nature of our health boards, to invest more in there. It's a key reason why Pfizer came here and chose to come to Swansea rather than a university site in England, despite the urging of Jeremy Hunt, as the health Secretary at the time, that they should go somewhere else. There's more that we can do, and I believe the vision set out by the Cabinet Secretary for health will help us to do that. Again, more means we can go faster, but, more than that, to have a more productive service for the staff who work in it and, of course, the people our service cares for.

Finally, question 8. Natasha Asghar.

We are taking forward a wide range of measures to continue to improve recycling across Wales. These include the introduction of the new workplace recycling laws alongside the continued work to increase household recycling. Our partnership approach has already seen Wales climb to the second in the world for recycling, within a whisker of first place. I look forward to further improvement on this front with and for Wales. 

Okay, really nice to hear your enthusiasm there, First Minister; thank you for that answer. Now, Caerphilly council in my region of south-east Wales has the worst recycling rates in Wales, but they are looking at ways to drive up that figure. Some measures being looked at and into include three or four-weekly bin collections, a new system for separating recyclables, and closing some of the area’s tips. There are also plans to build a new waste management hub. Now, whilst I may not necessarily support all of the proposals, the mooted changes are likely to come with enormous cost. In fact, the bill for the local authority’s waste strategy is expected to come in at around £54 million. The cost of these changes is significantly higher than the £2.7 million fines the authority has hanging over its head from the Welsh Government for not hitting recycling targets previously. At a time when we frequently hear in this Chamber about the financial strain on local authorities, these fines imposed by the Government are surely going to drastically set them back even further.

So, First Minister, what support is the Welsh Government providing to local authorities to help councils improve their recycling rates, especially as, from 2025, your Government is forcing them to hit a 70 per cent target?

We provide a range of consultancy support, with our specialist operators, the Waste and Resources Action Programme, and indeed we’ve also provided financial support in helping local authorities to move away from co-mingling, to actually have source-separated recycling.

It’s important to understand that there is a cost in doing nothing. Not moving away from co-mingling means that you have less recycling that is available to be processed and used. It means more needs to go either into incineration or to landfill. I’m very keen that we see investment in improvement, to make sure that we reduce the amount that goes to landfill and incineration, but, more than that, to recognise that improving our recycling doesn’t just allow us, potentially, to get to the top of a world league table; it would actually mean we had better quality products to go into recycling, with the real economic value that that maintains. And if only the Member could look at the evidence and be persuaded by the facts in this, then I believe we could get real support across this Chamber.

The improvement in recycling is a genuine success story of the last 25 years of devolution. At the start of our devolution journey, 95 per cent of our waste went into landfill. Now, it’s 1.6 per cent. We had pitiful rates of recycling, and we are now seen as a genuine leader across the world—that is something people across this Chamber should be proud of—in partnership between this place, the Welsh Government and our local authorities. The next stage must see a further improvement in that partnership, with targets and expectations from the Government, with the support and funding to do so, and the continued buy-in from the people of Wales, who want to see further improvement made in this area, and they are right to demand it. Thank you, Llywydd.

I thank the First Minister. [Applause.]

The next item will be the business statement and announcement, and the Trefnydd will be making that statement, Jane Hutt.

Thank you very much, Llywydd. There is one change to this week's business. The legislative statement on the Welsh Language and Education (Wales) Bill will be made by the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care. Draft business for the first three weeks of the autumn term is set out on the business statement and announcement, available to Members electronically. 

The health Minister, or Cabinet Secretary rather, published a new special measures framework for Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board in recent days, including the de-escalation criteria that she now expects the health board to meet before the organisation can be taken out of special measures. Obviously, there’s a great deal of interest in north Wales in the improvements that we need to see in those services, and, unfortunately, they’re not tangible improvements at the moment for most people across the region.

One of the things that I would have hoped that the Welsh Government would also point to would have been the number of complaints that are received and resolved by the health board, but there’s no mention of complaints at all in the special measures framework, and I think they can be a very useful tool for identifying problems and whether things are actually being addressed. I’ve got complaints in my inbox that have gone back months without a resolution, without even a response from the health board, which is clearly unacceptable. And the health board needs to, frankly, get a grip of complaints, make sure it learns from them, and that needs to be triangulated into the decision-making processes that the Cabinet Secretary is responsible for. Can I ask for a statement on the role of complaints in informing the Welsh Government about the escalation and intervention framework, in order that we can make sure that people's lived experiences in the future are properly taken into account when the Government makes decisions about escalation frameworks?

I'll give you another example as well. We have a bit of a postcode lottery in north Wales, with a number of practices that are now managed practices, rather than run under general practice contracts, and the services in those practices seem to be far worse than in other local surgeries. We have increasing problems with people accessing services that are available in other practices, but aren't available there. For example, simple and straightforward vaccinations are not available in the practice in Colwyn Bay, in the West End Medical Centre, in my own constituency. So, I think that these are all issues that need to be taken into account as part of these escalation frameworks and at the moment they're not. And I would like a statement on these for the future. Thank you. 

Thank you very much, Darren Millar. This is a really constructive question, I think, in terms of how we can bring the de-escalation intervention framework to more of a citizen-patient understanding of impacts. I mean, analysing the scope and the frequency of those complaints, I think, is very relevant. Of course, we've got the new Llais now operating, and I think the Cabinet Secretary, I'm sure, will be prepared to address this, particularly relating, of course, to the statements that have been made by Betsi Cadwaladr. 

Trefnydd, following on from Darren Millar's comments, certainly in terms of that statement on Betsi Cadwaladr and also the other written statement issued on escalation and intervention, which impacts all health boards in Wales, they are two statements that we would have liked to have seen as oral statements and had an opportunity to scrutinise and to ask questions in the Senedd. So, can I ask, therefore, will there be an opportunity early in the new term so that we do have that opportunity as a Senedd? 

Thank you, Heledd Fychan, and I'd like to thank the Member for raising this issue.  

Actually, we were talking—. We are looking at our business schedule for the autumn. So, I will ask the Cabinet Secretary if we can have an oral statement addressing one or both of those matters. 

Next week is the start of the six-week school holidays. We need to recognise that this is a really difficult time for families on low incomes in endeavouring to feed their children over this period, never mind how to entertain them. It's generally agreed that the healthy eating in schools guidelines are no longer fit for purpose. They're over 10 years old, and they simply don't take account of the systematic adulteration of processed food with additives by mass catering companies. For context, we know that one in six households admit they are addicted to ready meals, which are loaded with these ultra-processed additives, and many in the medical profession have identified this as the main driver of obesity, of diabetes, of cancer and heart disease. So, one of the most effective ways to promote a healthy diet and prevent obesity in school-age children is by supporting children to eat healthier food through the school day.

Now, there was a seminar held by Public Health Wales back in September—that's nearly a year ago—and we've heard nothing on the outcome of that. And beyond a paper that outlines the opportunities to maximise the impact of school food on the health and well-being outcomes of children, we have nothing. And, meanwhile, we don't have anything to inform the public procurement of school food or, indeed, in hospitals either. So, I wondered if we could have a written statement from the education Cabinet Secretary on the timetable for updating the healthy eating guidelines, so that we have modern standards that address the current challenges. Because at the moment we know that there are far too many complaints by families, saying that their child isn't getting enough food, because that's one of the ridiculous things about the current guidelines. We really do need to know that our multimillion-pound investment in free school meals is actually nourishing our children, rather than making the problem worse.

Thank you very much, Jenny Rathbone. It was important that you started your question by talking about the fact that we’re about to enter the school holiday period of six weeks in terms of access to health food and eating for our children and young people in Wales. I think it is relevant, before I address the issue about the healthy eating guidelines, to just again, for the record, remind us all of the pioneering holiday enrichment programme, a £4.85 million school holiday enrichment programme, called Food and Fun. Julie Morgan is going to be doing some work through our review to look at how this is being delivered. But I certainly know in my constituency, and many colleagues will be looking at visiting projects in their constituencies, how food is very much part of SHEP, access to healthy eating. And indeed not just for the children attending that holiday enrichment programme, but families coming in and having meals, lunch, food together at the end of a session. It’s the ninth year that that scheme’s been operating. I will ask the education Minister for an update on the healthy eating guidelines, because this is very much again about local authorities. It’s their responsibility in terms of commissioning to deliver on the health eating guidelines. And of course we know there’s good and bad practice, or not so good practice, throughout Wales. Certainly, if there has been a Public Health Wales seminar, and this is very cross-Government as well, we can ask the Minister to report on that as well in preparation for the next school term.

Similar theme. I would like to raise a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Education regarding issues being reported by schools, pupils and parents regarding universal portion sizes given to pupils both in primary and secondary education. The issue that is causing concern is that pupils in reception are receiving the same portion size as children in year 6. It would be fairly obvious that a four-year-old requires a different portion size for lunch rather than a 10 or 11-year-old.

This issue was brought to my attention some time ago, but following a visit to Bodnant Community School in Prestatyn on Friday of last week, I heard first-hand from teachers and catering staff that reception aged pupils are struggling to eat their lunch whilst year 6 pupils are not getting enough to eat and are not feeling full, with some of the children telling me that they are ravenous by the afternoon, which of course impacts their learning. The Children’s Commissioner for Wales has also raised concerns that children in Wales are still hungry after school meals following a snapshot survey of pupils.

Most people would assume that universal free school meals implies that every child is entitled to a free school lunch universally, but they would not assume that that also stipulates a universal portion size for children of all ages. So, can I get a statement from the Cabinet Secretary outlining whether the Welsh Government will review the guidance to ensure that children receive a meal of the appropriate size and nutrition for their age and needs? Thank you.

Thank you very much, Gareth Davies, for raising this, because this is where often in our constituency work you get good feedback, don’t you, in visits—the school visit you undertook in your constituency. Again, I’m sure this probably goes back to healthy eating guidelines, but I will also ask the education Minister to look at this following the question from Jenny Rathbone in terms of is the guidance about sizes. From what you’re saying, in your authority or your schools, they have universal portion sizes, but we know with growing children that may not be appropriate.

I think this is something that is really important to the roll-out of free school meals as well, because we want to ensure in the roll-out of free school meals, which is so widely supported and important in terms of tackling food poverty and giving healthy eating chances for children and young people, that we are also monitoring how the roll-out is going, whether the healthy eating guidelines are being implemented, and also, again, looking at best practice—good practice across Wales in terms of the delivery of this important initiative. For a child, this is their basic daily need, isn't it, to have that healthy meal at school. 

The crisis situation in our health service is having devastating effects on people's lives, and I'd like a statement, please, to address understaffing at our hospitals. A constituent contacted me last week whose father had been referred to Ysbyty Ystrad Fawr with a suspected bleed on his brain. He waited for 10 hours on the ward in searing pain before an ambulance transferred him to the Heath hospital. Now, during that time, it was impossible for his family to contact him. Every time his wife or son tried to call the ward, they were put on hold and then disconnected. His son, in desperation, got a lift to the hospital, where he found his father in so much pain he could barely keep his eyes open. Nobody could find a pillow for him, so he had to make do with folded blankets to rest his head, and nobody could update his family on when an ambulance would transfer him. They were told they weren't allowed to take him to the Heath themselves and that it would be an eight to nine-hour wait for an ambulance. My constituent's father said, 'This is how people are left to die.' 

Now, the staff in our hospitals are heroes. They are working under tremendous strain, and this understaffing is affecting them terribly, too. This is surely no way to treat patients or staff. So, can a statement set out how the Government will address this?

Thank you, Delyth Jewell, for reporting on the pressures that are clearly affecting people, patients, in the health service and the pressures that are on our staff and on our NHS because of the demand and the attendances, which are rising, to emergency departments. I think it is important to check the latest NHS performance statistics, which were published on 20 June. In May, there were 5,110 red, life-threatening calls to the ambulance service, and 13.9 per cent of all calls, an average of 165, immediately life-threatening calls were made each day—12 more than in April and the third highest on record, which is an indication of the pressure on the NHS. But, I have to say, in terms of performance, 45.8 per cent of red calls received an emergency response within eight minutes.

So, obviously, we are concerned to hear of that experience, and you've brought that to our attention. There was an average of 3,215 daily attendances to emergency departments, an increase compared to the previous month, and, of course, this has an impact on access to and availability of ambulances. But, I think it is important to say that, in May, 5 per cent more people received a response within eight minutes compared to the same month last year, and 79 per cent of red-category patients received a response in 15 minutes. But, I know that the Cabinet Secretary would say that ambulance response times are still not where we would want them to be and not where the public would want them to be. So, thank you for drawing attention to this again today.

It's great that the UK's new Labour Government has acted so decisively in order to tackle the crisis in our prisons, with some prisoners being released after they've served 40 per cent of their sentences, rather than the 50 per cent at the moment, and also their plan to appoint 1,000 more probation officers. But, I think that we all know that our prison system has come close to collapse as a result of 14 years of inaction. We also know that prisons don't work for women, who often serve very short sentences, often for very minor crimes, causing huge disruption to their families, and particularly to their children. That's why, for many years, there's been a campaign, which I've been part of and, I think, the Trefnydd has also been part of, to reduce the number of women in prison and to try to get more suitable accommodation. So, would it be possible to have a statement updating us on the progress of the women's centre that was due to be developed here in Wales?

Thank you very much, Julie Morgan. You have been raising these issues not just here in this Senedd in the time you've been here as a Senedd Member, but as an MP, and I want to particularly thank you for that focus on the residential women's centre, which is a pioneering pilot for us here in Wales. Of course, this is something that we have worked on with the Ministry of Justice to ensure that we have got this pilot here in Wales. And it's about a preventative approach to women in, or at risk of entering, the criminal justice system. I think you have welcomed, and we welcome, the decisive action that the new UK Government is taking to address capacity issues in our prisons, and, actually, the Welsh Government is now represented on a taskforce to oversee the implementation approach. But I recall seeing James Timpson, the new UK Government Minister for prison, parole and probation—and we welcome those extra probation officers—who actually said that there are three groups of people caught up in the criminal justice system: perhaps a third, yes, do need to be in prison, a third could be somewhere else having preventative community sentences, and a third shouldn't be in prison at all, and he said those are mainly women. And we know, from when we visited HMP Eastwood Park, we found that the governor said that most of the women in that prison were also themselves victims of domestic violence and poverty and shouldn't be in prison.

So, our new residential women's centre is a key priority of the women's justice blueprint, and I will ask the Cabinet Secretary to provide a statement on this. We want to make sure that the residential women's centre is a priority and that it's progressed quickly. We know that a site has been found and funding has been provided. And it's going to improve the lives of women in Wales, because it's going to provide accommodation for vulnerable women with complex needs who would otherwise be sentenced to custody. And women will be able to stay closer to home and maintain crucial family ties. It is part of the blueprint for the women's justice blueprint, which we've been working on with the support of the social justice committee, and, of course, Members and the Welsh Government, taking this forward.

I call for a Welsh Government statement on the social value provided by the further education sector. April's report for CollegesWales, 'Demonstrating the Social Value of Further Education Colleges in Wales', states that, although 12.3 per cent of learners at further education institutions self-identified as having a disability, this proportion has decreased over the last three years, and highlights the importance of allowing for an inclusive environment for all adults, including those with a disability. However, I've been contacted by several Wrexham and Flintshire parents whose disabled young adult children, with autism, cerebral palsy and Down's syndrome, have all been refused funded residential college places at the nearest suitable college for their needs just across the border in Gobowen, at their stage 2 appeals. I call for a statement accordingly. 

I also call for a Welsh Government statement on children's hospice funding in Wales, following June's report by charity Together for Short Lives, which shows an urgent need for long-term, sustainable and fair funding for Wales's children's hospices.

Thank you very much, Mark Isherwood, for those two important questions. The Cabinet Secretary for Education, I'm sure, would wholly agree with you and with that report, as we would, for those of us who value our further education colleges and the immense impacts of the social value of further education, and the ways in which further education reaches out and is inclusive and provides educational opportunities for disabled people and neurodiverse people. It is something that we're constantly looking at in terms of our disability rights taskforce, for example, the education group that's made up and working with disabled people and learners. So, I'm sure that that's something that will be reflected not just in the disability rights taskforce and report, but also in the work that is supported by the education Secretary.

And, of course, yes, on the Together for Short Lives campaign and report, it is important that we get an update on progress in terms of delivery on that initiative.

Residents in Caerau in the Llynfi valley on Friday met to discuss a way forward for those residents affected by the Arbed scandal. Now, at the meeting, they launched a petition calling for a fair deal for those residents. But also in the meeting, there was a clear sense that residents had lost complete faith in Warmworks, in Bridgend County Borough Council and in the Welsh Government, to resolve this issue after over a decade. So, I would like to ask that the Government puts a statement forward, in partnership with BCBC and Warmworks, to set out what the next steps are in terms of resolving this issue, and what the clear timescales are as well because, at the moment, there's a severe lack of clarity for residents. Some residents, two months ago, were told that scaffolding would be up on their building in two weeks. We are two months on and nothing has happened. Some are being told the same again. So, in order to get some clarity here, we really need some leadership here from the Welsh Government.

Thank you for that question, and I'm sure that you are actively raising this with Bridgend County Borough Council. It is their responsibility. It is important that there is a fair deal for residents and that they can see that progress has been made. I do urge you to continue to engage with the authority, in terms of what the next steps are. But, obviously, you have put it on the record now, and this is something that, I'm sure, Bridgend County Borough Council will now respond to.

I would like a statement on why, currently, all of the operations have been cancelled in Llandudno hospital. The Minister herself will know that I have fought so many times to have services brought back to Llandudno hospital, and I’m very pleased that this is happening. However, I have been approached by members of staff working at Llandudno hospital who are very concerned that, since March, the lift hasn’t been working. It’s out of order. And it’s all to do with central Wales, eastern Wales, and the different way that Llandudno hospital, the different responsibilities—. Apparently, it’s Glan Clwyd Hospital that needs to facilitate the lift repairs, and I just wondered—. Seventeen operations alone, on Friday, were cancelled in Bangor, which were on the Llandudno list. So, we have now got a situation where, as a result of a lift not working, staff have been transferred to Bangor hospital, adding more cost for their travel. So, it’s something that I would like you to look at, and provide a statement if possible. Thank you.

Thank you, Janet Finch-Saunders. Well, you have raised it today. It is a matter for Betsi Cadwaladr health board, and I'm sure that you will be raising it directly and formally with the chief executive.

I would like to ask for two things before the end of the current parliamentary term—two issues that were promised before recess. First of all, the Senedd health committee, in a report on dentistry, has called for the establishment of a dental school in north Wales. In her repsonse to that specific recommendation, the Cabinet Secretary for health pledged that she would publish her response to that demand before recess. So, will you ensure that this response is available to Senedd Members before Friday? Thank you.

Secondly, I was given a pledge, in response to a written question in June, that the Cabinet Secretary for Housing, Local Governement and Planning would publish full details of the community assets commission before the summer recess, including information about the remit and membership. Now, I haven't seen that. Perhaps it has been issued, but I certainly haven't seen it. So, can we have that statement, please, despite the fact, of course, that we don't have a Cabinet Secretary with responsibility for housing since this morning?

Thank you very much, Siân Gwenllian. You have raised this issue several times in the business statement and announcement.

On a second dental school for Wales, you have the Cabinet Secretary here, who seemed to be offering to give you an update by the end of this session. But I think that what's important to say, in terms of a second dental school for Wales, is that it is about a second educational facility, I understand, offering that undergraduate programme. This is something that has to be considered in relation to funding, data and intelligence, to inform and support any decision. It is very much Aberystwyth University and Hywel Dda University Health Board for Aberystwyth, but Bangor is also signalling its ambition to add a dental school to the medical school. So, Aberystwyth are progressing; in Bangor, we need to see about joint proposals. But I know that you will be raising this question, and I think the Cabinet Secretary today has agreed to respond.

On your second point, the community asset transfer, this is something that I was certainly involved with—it was a cross-Government policy area—when I was social justice Minister. We have established a commission to consider the recommendations made by the Local Government and Housing Committee. There's a task and finish group. It's got 18 members, including a number of key stakeholder groups: the Plunkett Foundation, One Voice Wales, Wales Council for Voluntary Action, Development Trusts Association Wales and Barcud housing association. There's going to be independent research and stakeholder workshops conducted by Cardiff University. We will produce a Government written statement for you, giving you more on how this is being taken forward. But, clearly, I'm sure you'll be glad to hear that this task and finish group is under way, and they have to produce their recommendations to the Welsh Government in the spring of 2025.

Trefnydd, I'd like a written or oral statement on what plans your Government may or may not have to strengthen access rights, increase investment and improve the general offer for ramblers in Wales. It's now over 10 years since a Labour Government Minister announced a review of access legislation in order to, and I quote,

'secure better access to the outdoors for recreation, modernise and simplify the current regulatory framework, and provide clarity and certainty over where people can go and what they can do there.'

Regrettably, despite several consultations and the convening of wide-ranging expert groups, little progress on reforms has been made.

Also on the matter of rights of way, the Welsh Government's access improvement grant has delivered improvements, but the funding is not commensurate with the well-being or economic benefits our access land and path networks bring. Can we have a Government statement that proposes a fairer form of funding, which brings investment more in line with what is already spent on active travel routes? Diolch.

Thank you, Peredur. You raise a really important issue in terms of making this a reality, not just an aspiration or even a policy underpinned in law. We need to ensure that these access orders are facilitated, and that means funding, leadership and implementation of partnership working. Certainly, we'll raise this with the Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs.

I thank the Trefnydd.

I've been fascinated by the facial expressions of the health Secretary in response to the many requests for health statements this afternoon, with a thumbs up and thumbs down. It made me think, 'I wonder if the official Record could do emojis as part of its official recording of what happens in these proceedings.' Anyway, we go on.

Item 3 is next, a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care on the Welsh Language and Education (Wales) Bill. Eluned Morgan to make the statement.

Thank you for allowing me to make a statement on the Welsh language and education Bill, which was introduced to the Senedd yesterday. As a Government, we are committed to building a Wales where the Welsh language thrives in every community, and where our young people can be proud of their bilingual or multilingual heritage and skills. The Welsh language belongs to us all in Wales, wherever we are on the language continuum. There is widespread support for our vision of a million speakers Welsh by 2050, and this Bill, which will put this target on a statutory footing, represents a crucial step towards realising that ambition.

The proposals in the Bill are about giving every child in Wales a fair chance of becoming Welsh speakers. Every child in Wales deserves to become a Welsh speaker, and we all have a responsibility to work towards that goal. In addition, there is a passion for learning the language among people of all ages. The Bill therefore aims to support people of all ages to learn Welsh, or to develop the Welsh skills they already have.

We have moved on from describing our ability in Welsh in terms of 'fluent' or 'not fluent'. The Bill will establish a standard method for describing ability in Welsh based on the common European framework of reference for languages, or CEFR. This will give learners, teachers, parents and employers a clear understanding of where an individual is on their linguistic journey in the Welsh language. The CEFR is an international tool developed by the Council of Europe for describing language ability in any language, and CEFR is used across Europe and in countries around the world to describe language ability.

There are a number of advantages to using the CEFR. It will provide clarity to schools on the journey towards learning Welsh. It will make it easier for parents to understand what children will be able to do in Welsh after finishing school. It will be possible to link Welsh qualifications with the levels, so that employers know what language skills of their workforce have. And employers will also be able to use the levels to describe what skills they need for jobs when they recruit. And in that regard, I emphasise that the learning of Welsh in school is something that applies and is relevant to all pupils, in all schools, whichever medium is the main language of learning.

We have a excellent record in Wales of Welsh-medium education, and this Government's commitment to continue to increase the number of learners receiving Welsh-medium education is firm. Welsh-medium education is, and will continue to be, the fastest route to becoming a Welsh speaker. The Bill will give Welsh Ministers, through the national framework on Welsh language education and learning Welsh, prepared as a result of the Bill, powers to set targets on local authorities to continue to increase Welsh-medium education.

But to allow every pupil, in every school, to become a Welsh speaker, the Bill sets firm expectations regarding Welsh language education across all schools, whatever the medium of education. The Bill will establish a statutory system to categorise the provision of Welsh language education in schools. This builds on the current non-statutory regime, but goes a step further. A school category will determine not only the provision the school will provide to pupils, but also its Welsh language learning goal.

The Welsh language learning goals, based on CEFR levels, set the level that pupils in a school within a specific category will be expected to have reached by the end of compulsory education. The Bill states that there will be three categories, namely primarily Welsh language schools; dual language schools; and primarily English language, partly Welsh schools. The Bill also establishes a process for describing in regulations the range of Welsh language education provision that will apply to each category.

Having constant and regular contact with the Welsh language is key to learning it. In order to level the playing field for all children in Wales to have the opportunity to learn Welsh, the Bill sets a minimum of 10 per cent Welsh language education provision for primarily English language, partly Welsh schools—whether that is via Welsh lessons or lessons through the medium of Welsh. This will be an important step forward in achieving the long-term goal for all pupils to acquire oral skills that are equivalent to at least level B2 of CEFR, a level that will enable them to speak Welsh in their daily lives.

It's vital that we plan effectively to meet the goal, on many levels. The Government will have responsibility for planning strategically by formulating a national framework on Welsh language education and Welsh language learning. Local authorities will have responsibility to produce local Welsh in education strategic plans, building on the current WESP system. And schools will have also responsibility for preparing Welsh language education delivery plans that will, among other things, demonstrate how schools will improve, and where reasonably practicable, increase their Welsh language provision.

It's only by working together that we can succeed. It will be absolutely key that we provide the support needed to realise the ambition of the Bill. In that regard, it must also be recognised that schools start the journey in different places, and there is recognition in the Bill that some schools may need more time to be able to deliver in line with the requirements. The Government also recognises that any reform will have implications for teachers, including workload implications. I would like to assure teachers that we will prepare a full assessment of the Bill’s impact on workload, and we will do this in conjunction with the trade unions. I will publish an update on this during the scrutiny process on the Bill in the autumn.

To succeed, there must be stable and appropriate support for Welsh language education and to enable people to learn Welsh after leaving school. The Bill facilitates that by establishing a new statutory body, namely the national institute of learning Welsh, which will have the objective of facilitating and supporting people to learn Welsh, so that more people, of all ages, learn the language and use it every day. Establishing the institute as a statutory body will provide status, certainty and longevity to support lifelong Welsh language learning. One of the institute's responsibilities will be to support teachers to teach Welsh in schools, as well as catering for people beyond compulsory school age, giving everyone the opportunity to be on the journey towards learning Welsh. The institute will ensure that Welsh language learning methods in schools and beyond take place in the context of the CEFR.

I am grateful to everyone who has responded to the consultation on the White Paper on the Bill that was undertaken last year, and for the overall support that came through those responses to the Welsh language and to the Bill's objectives. I also thank Cefin Campbell for the close collaboration on the Bill during the period of the co-operation agreement, and I look forward to discussing the details of the Bill with Members across the Senedd during the scrutiny process for the Bill. Thank you.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your statement. If I could start with an apology because I will be addressing this issue today in English. 

The reason for that will become very clear, and that is because I'm disappointed, Cabinet Secretary—and it is not your fault personally—that this statement was only circulated to Members about 45 minutes before you got to your feet today. I think the English version then was sent out about 25 minutes after that, and that makes it very difficult for opposition Members to be able to provide the scrutiny that a Bill like this deserves. And I think nothing speaks more to the warnings that we had heeded, the chaos at the heart of the Welsh Government, and internal issues overshadowing the business of legislating, than the example I have just shown today. And to that end, you said, towards the end of your statement, that we will only succeed by working together. And I will say that your predecessor, as of this morning, had not asked either myself or Sam Kurtz, in advance of this statement, or in advance of the drafting of the Bill, to discuss shared priorities in terms of the development of the Bill. So, I would wager, Cabinet Secretary, that this is not a great start to what should be a non-controversial Bill, a Bill that all of us in this Chamber should be minded to support.

But it does raise the question, first and foremost: who is responsible, in this Welsh Government, for Welsh language policy now? There is a gap, quite clearly—a number of gaps—at the heart of this Welsh Government, including in this important area, and I appreciate you have brought this statement forward, but how can we have any faith that the statement that you have made today will reflect the Bill as it comes forward? Because, as you know, a new Minister may change the direction of the Bill; a new First Minister may want to change the direction of this Bill. So, how can we have faith that the final drafting of the Bill, as it goes through and moves through the stages of the legislative process, will reflect the statement that you've made today?

There is a lot that you've mentioned today, and that's why it deserves detailed review and detailed scrutiny. And actually, in principle, I support a number of the measures that you've mentioned today, which makes it all the more disappointing, I think, that we couldn't have worked on this together. I support, in principle, moving away from that blunt instrument of fluent and non-fluent to the CEFR scale, if you like, that you had mentioned, and I think that is a good step, because many of us will probably count ourselves somewhere between fluent and non-fluent, and I think that's something to be welcomed. But it does raise a number of questions: when reaching that target of 1 million Welsh speakers, as I'm sure everybody in this Chamber hopes that we will, where, on that scale, would you need to be in order to be counted towards that million? And some may worry—and I hope to get reassurance from your answer—that this might be seen as a lowering of the standard, or the bar, in terms of the fluency required to count towards, if you like, that 1 million speakers. And I think it raises another question in terms of the impact on our schools. Obviously, we've talked at length—I know the Cabinet Secretary for Education is here—about the recruitment and retention of teachers, in particular Welsh language teachers, and I think we've spoken before about how teachers who teach through the medium of Welsh are, on average, older than their counterparts in the classroom, and so can I ask what assessment the Welsh Government has made of that, and also uptake on internal, if you like, Welsh development, Welsh language lessons, by serving teachers, so we get an idea of the scale of the challenge and whether the workforce is adequately prepared to meet the challenge, I think, that this Bill will lay down?

And finally, you also mentioned that schools may need more time to implement some of the changes that you've mentioned today, and that, for me, is reminiscent of what we've seen in recent months, frankly, in terms of education policy. We've seen a review of the ALN guidance pretty much for the same reason, new curriculum guidance issued for the same reason, and all these things will have workload impacts as well. And I know you spoke about dealing with and speaking with teaching unions, but have you actually assessed the impact, the additional impact, not only of this, but all of the other changes that the Welsh Government has made in recent months and recent years, on the overall workload on our teachers? Because this will only succeed with the buy-in, I think, of our teaching staff as well as the country as a whole. I hope, in the future, to be able to work with you, or whoever brings this Bill forward, on a genuinely collaborative cross-party basis; I just regret it hasn't happened until now.

Diolch yn fawr, Tom. Obviously, you did get a copy in advance. Actually, we’re not obliged to provide a statement in advance; that is a courtesy that we extend when we feel like it. So, I hope you don’t mind that that was—[Interruption.] Well, it is no obligation on us to provide that in advance, and, in fact, the Bill was published yesterday—you’ve had a hell of a lot of time to look at it. So, you have got time, and I’m sorry you’ve taken that approach.

I must say that I think it’s really useful, and I think it would be really useful for lots of people to have this new approach with the CEFR, which gives people a sense of where people are on that language continuum. I know that I, for example, have advertised for people to come to work in my office, and they say they’re Welsh speakers, and they walk in, and you speak to them and, actually, they’re not a brilliant Welsh speaker, or, actually, they’re a brilliant Welsh speaker but they can’t write it. So, we do need to know where they’re at, and I think that would be really useful for employers. But also, I hope it will give heart to people to say, 'I’m on the continuum. I do speak a bit of Welsh’, that, actually, it is a language that belongs to us all, and that they’ll feel like, 'I’m on that journey.' I know Mererid Hopwood’s approach is, 'Can you say Llanelli? Then you’re on the bus’, and I think that’s really important. If you know that—. I love this example that she always gives: if you see a sign and it says 'allan' and you know that you only go if your name is Allan, you know that you understand a little bit of Welsh, that ‘allan’, it’s not Allan—it means 'to exit'. So, it’s really important to understand that, actually, we’re all on this journey somewhere, and we’ve all got to get somewhere on the bus, and that’s what we’re talking about, is making sure that—

the Welsh language belongs to all of us.

Just in terms of how do we measure that 1 million, well, that’s been clear right from the beginning: it’s the census that determines, and people answer the question. The really frustrating part of that, of course, is that lots of people—lots of people—tick that they don’t speak Welsh when they do. Cefin Campbell knows this; Cefin used to run Menter Cwm Gwendraeth, and it used to be fascinating. There’s somebody I've met recently who is absolutely fluent in Welsh, and they say, 'No, I can’t speak Welsh.' So, we’ve got to build the confidence of people, and I think getting people on that journey is really important.

Just in terms of teachers, there are incentives to get more teachers to train through the medium of Welsh, there are opportunities for serving teachers to brush up on the Welsh that they have, and also I know that there’s been a huge amount of work to identify Welsh teachers in schools who are not currently teaching through the medium of Welsh where, actually, we’ll be able to use those in future. So, that whole identification thing is a part of that journey.

Just in terms of impact assessment, I think, as I said in the statement, there’s an opportunity for us to look at that as the Bill progresses through the Senedd.

I’d like to thank the Cabinet Secretary for introducing what is a very important statement. I’m pleased that you acknowledged the role played by Cefin Campbell and the co-operation agreement, and although this is a Labour Party Bill, and we would like it to be more ambitious, there are many things that we have been pleased to collaborate and co-operate with you on, but it’s something for all of us to reflect on, isn’t it? Twenty-five years have passed since the Senedd started its work, and the majority of children in Wales continue to be denied the chance to become confident Welsh speakers. And as evidence clearly demonstrates—and I’m pleased that the statement acknowledges this today—the best way for a child to acquire the Welsh language is by being immersed in the language via Welsh-medium education, and what we have in this Bill is the beginning of a journey towards that. Our role as a party through the scrutiny process and through amendments will be to seek to strengthen the Bill further, so that every child in Wales can have the right to become a confident Welsh speaker.

I have to say that I was concerned yesterday to hear the former Cabinet Secretary, who was responsible for introducing the Bill, continuing in interviews to emphasise choice. We must move away from this and create a right for every child in Wales to acquire our nation's two official languages.

In the same item on the S4C news, there were also interviews with pupils from Chepstow secondary school, and it was wonderful to hear them responding so positively to the Bill, and hearing that they're eager to have the opportunity to become confident Welsh speakers. And this does reflect a consistent message I hear in English-medium schools throughout my region, where a number of pupils of all ages have expressed their frustration that they haven't received the opportunity to learn Welsh through the education system, even while they remain part of it. Our English-medium schools, therefore, have a clear role to play in reaching the target of 1 million Welsh speakers by 2050. But at the same time, we must, of course, increase the number who receive Welsh-medium education.

Now, clearly, there are elements that we as a party welcome a great deal as part of the Bill, such as the clear commitment on the face of the Bill to place the target of 1 million Welsh speakers by 2050 on a statutory footing. We hope that we can also demonstrate through the Bill that the Welsh language belongs to everyone, by creating a single system, along a language continuum, and that equality and fairness are at the heart of our education system, including lifelong learning.

The framework set out in the Bill provides a foundation for greater ambition for the future, and that leads me to the aspects of the Bill, as tabled, that we as a party believe need to be strengthened. It is concerning to see a direction to dual-stream schools as a comprehensive solution to the question of how the Bill's objectives can be achieved. Only a small number of schools operate according to this model, and I'm not aware of comprehensive research that demonstrates that this model works in Wales. Indeed, Rhondda Cynon Taf's cabinet will tomorrow be discussing changing Dolau Primary School from being a dual-stream school to an English-medium school, while building a new Welsh-medium school in the area. It said in the report that this would increase English-medium capacity and increase Welsh-medium capacity. But how does this kind of change align with the target of 1 million Welsh speakers? And what lessons are to be learned in terms of the numbers of pupils choosing the Welsh-medium stream at Dolau school, with a change from a majority choosing Welsh to a majority choosing English over the past few years? Do we not need a better understand of what is happening on the ground before deciding on such a model?

Another aspect of the Government's plans that does require careful scrutiny, and as already mentioned to by Tom Giffard, is the workforce plan. This will guarantee the success of this Bill. If we don't have the numbers in schools, then we won't be able to achieve that ambition, so we do need to see definite targets in terms of increasing the number able to teach through the medium of Welsh, because we aren't hitting the targets as they currently stand. There are deficiencies in terms of targets in terms of the number of pupils receiving Welsh-medium education by 2050 and ensuring action by local authorities as part of the delivery of this Bill's objectives. But I'm aware that time is against us, and I know that it will be a process as we scrutinise and table amendments where we can, hopefully, ensure that this is an ambitious Bill that is very much needed for the children and young people of Wales.

Thank you very much, Heledd. I think it's worth reflecting on the journey that we've been on in 25 years, and even before then. I went to a Welsh-medium school in this capital city. There was one primary school in Cardiff. When I was going to school, people would throw stones at our bus because they didn't want a Welsh school in their area. That's the reality of the situation. Now, I'm relatively old, so it's a quite a long time ago, but the fact is that we have seen huge progress. So, from that time, 50 years ago, just think now—consider the fact that, at that time, you would know everyone who spoke Welsh in Cardiff. That simply wouldn't be possible today. The change has been transformational, and I think it's important that we take pride and rejoice in that fact. Of course there is a possibility for us to go further, and I am concerned that some areas outside of our cities need focus now. That's where we need to concentrate, and I'm pleased to see that areas such as Pembrokeshire, where, if my daughter wanted to go to school from St David’s, she would have to travel by bus for an hour and a quarter just to get to the nearest Welsh-medium school. Now, there is a school that is closer and things are changing. And we do have to take pride in the fact that we have been on this journey, and the journey is taking us in the right direction.

Just in terms of the Welsh language, I think it’s positive that we have a statutory foundation for the million as an aim. But that’s not what will deliver; putting it on a statutory foundation won’t deliver. It’s the practical steps that will make the difference. And just in terms of what needs to be done in terms of those practical steps, I think the fact that this language planning that we hope to see at a national level, that there will now be a duty on Welsh Ministers to draw up a national framework on Welsh-medium education and the learning of Welsh—. But that will be only one piece of the jigsaw. Then, local authorities will have a duty to draw up local Welsh in education plans, and, then, at a school level, there will be a duty to draw up Welsh language delivery plans. So, all of this needs to come together so that everyone knows where they stand, and then you can plan how we get to that million Welsh speakers.

So, I think having this foundation on a statutory basis, I think that—. And I do hope that that will make a difference.

Can I thank the Minister for the statement? I have an interest as my daughter teaches Welsh in a Welsh-medium school in Amlwch on Ynys Môn. I’m aware of the excellence of Welsh-medium schools in Swansea, both secondary and primary, with personal experience as a parent of a pupil attending Lôn Las and Bryn Tawe, and with grandchildren at Tan-y-lan. I want to highlight the huge improvement in the teaching of Welsh in English-medium primary schools over recent years. I think there really has been a huge change. When I visit English-medium schools in Swansea, like I did on Monday, I hear Welsh spoken, see it on classroom walls and see Welsh on notice boards. This has been made possible by the one-year Welsh language sabbatical course for primary school teachers. Is this scheme going to continue?

I also want to highlight the excellent work done by Mudiad Meithrin in helping children from English-speaking families learn Welsh at a young age.

Finally, as someone who speaks Welsh daily, for many people like me, what we lack most is confidence.

Thanks very much, Mike, and can you please pass on my thanks to your daughter for her contribution on Anglesey? I certainly think there has been an improvement just in the awareness of the Welsh language in some of our English-speaking schools. I think, if we’re honest, there’s still a long way to go in terms of how we teach Welsh in English-medium schools. I think there are opportunities for us to think about how that is done, and how to improve that, and I do hope the fact that we will have the athrofa dysgu Cymraeg cenedlaethol to help us with that, I hope that will help us in making sure that we have, absolutely, the most up-to-date models on how to teach Welsh in the most efficient and effective way that is appropriate for people of the correct age.

In 1949, your own primary school was established, around two miles or so away from the Senedd. And 19 children came together at that school, but, unfortunately, one of the children, John Ellerman, was refused admission as his parents didn’t speak Welsh; 75 years later, the good news is that Welsh language education is growing in Cardiff, with John Ellerman’s grandchildren part of that growth. But there are issues that continue to cause concern. The struggle continues in Grangetown. Like you, I had to travel hours by bus every day. We need a secondary school in south Cardiff to ensure that Welsh-medium education is available in our multi-ethnic communities, and our most deprived communities. Secondly, I saw a recent television programme on every child’s right to the Welsh language, which demonstrated the challenges that face children with disabilities when it comes to receiving Welsh-medium education in Cardiff. And finally, for several years now, there’s been a lack of places in Ysgol Mynydd Bychan. Every year, we hear about children having to receive English-medium education because they’ve failed to get a place in their local Welsh-medium education school. So, how will the Government ensure, through this Bill, that Welsh-medium education is genuinely accessible to all families in Wales? 

Thank you very much, Rhys, and, of course, I was in that first Welsh-medium school in Cardiff with your brother. There were only 99 of us in the first Welsh-medium secondary school in Cardiff in that first year. Just in terms of Welsh-medium education, it's true that it's thriving in the capital city. Demand is increasing constantly. One of the things that I hope will help in future will be this language planning, which will happen on a statutory basis now.  

And, finally, Cefin Campbell.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. Before I ask my question, may I make a declaration of interest with regard to the role that I have played in the development of this Bill, and I want to thank the former Cabinet Secretary very much—the Cabinet Secretary who had responsibility for the Bill—for the very constructive co-operation on that journey, as we sought a consensus between us about the best way to ensure that every child in Wales becomes a confident Welsh speaker?

But what concerns me a great deal, and this won't be news to anyone— Heledd has referred to it already—is the deficiencies in terms of a bilingual workforce. And if I could ask this specific question, we know about the low numbers of students who are studying A level Welsh, and there is room for concern, because of the number of those who then go on to be Welsh-medium teachers, about the very low numbers studying Welsh as a subject now. Back in 2022-23, 176 pupils completed first language A level in Welsh; 112 for second language Welsh. So, may I ask how the Government intends to ensure that more pupils study A level Welsh and then go on to train to become teachers in the subject? 

But it isn't Welsh as a subject alone that is a cause of concern. Unless we recruit far more Welsh-medium subject teachers, the objectives of this Bill are never going to be achieved. So, Bridget Phillipson, the education Secretary in Westminster, on her very first day in office, set a target to recruit 6,500 additional teachers. I would like to see the Government setting a target for the appointment, recruitment and training of many more Welsh-medium teachers to help us to deliver the objectives of this Bill. So, may I ask how the Government intends to do just that too? Thank you very much. 

Thank you very much, Cefin, and thank you for your work on this Bill. And thank you to Jeremy Miles too for all of the work that he has done in preparing for the introduction of this Bill. You're quite right that workforce is a challenge; it's a challenge generally in education and it's a challenge not only here in Wales, but across the UK. But, of course, that challenge is even greater in the context of the Welsh language, and that's why we are seeking to attract more people to train to become teachers. One of the things that I think has been of assistance is that a number of young people do become classroom assistants at quite a young age, and that gives them a flavour, perhaps before or after university. And that gives them an opportunity to become confident in Welsh again. So, you don't necessarily need an A level in Welsh, but reigniting that interest in the language once they've left and gone to university, where they perhaps haven't spoken Welsh, and then they return, and they do get that experience—. I have seen that happen quite a lot, and I do think that that is something that could be looked at in more detail. 

I thank the Cabinet Secretary. 

Item 4 today is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for North Wales and Transport, a transport update, and I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Ken Skates.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. In my opening statement to the Senedd, I confirmed that my three priorities were to listen, to work in partnership, and to make change happen. I'm grateful for this opportunity to update you on this progress.

Our national listening programme on 20 mph has proved to be an incredibly valuable undertaking. Since April, I’ve personally met with a wide range of the people and communities that we serve: older people, people living with disabilities, the emergency services, businesses large and small, motorists, cyclists, highways engineers and, of course, elected representatives, including Members of this Senedd. I've also visited communities to see for myself how 20 mph has been implemented on the ground and to engage with local residents directly. Some of those conversations have been about individual roads where 20 mph simply makes no sense, but I have also spoken to people who have warmly welcomed the change and told me about the difference it’s made to their daily lives.

One of the central purposes of the listening programme was to assist us in refining the guidance. We have taken the feedback and worked in partnership with highway authorities and the County Surveyors' Society Wales to co-create guidance on setting 30 mph speed limits on restricted roads and other 20 mph roads. That guidance has been published today, and it provides a framework to support highway authorities to make the right decisions for local roads, particularly when those calls are finely balanced. It prioritises 20 mph speed limits where pedestrians and cyclists frequently mix with vehicles, unless strong evidence supports that higher speeds are safe.

It also sets out that speed limit changes to 30 mph are mainly expected on A and B roads, which are, generally, strategic routes through urban areas. In addition to clarifying place criteria terminology, the updated guidance provides criteria linked to road characteristics and movement, making it clear that any decision is an exercise for highway authorities of weighing benefits and disbenefits of setting a higher speed limit in the context of their transport specific but also wider statutory duties.

Members will have had the opportunity to consider the guidance, but, to clarify, it sets out that 30 mph limits could be considered on strategic roads outside urban centres and rural residential roads with no nearby facilities, strategic transport routes, such as important bus corridors with limited pedestrian and cyclist traffic, and where the road characteristics allow, including consideration of segregated facilities for pedestrians and cyclists, road width and geometry.

Now, before the listening phase began, I was clear that I wanted citizens to have their say on speed limits within their communities. We’ve encouraged people from across Wales to contact their highway authority to provide them with their thoughts on individual roads with 20 mph limits. Thousands of people have responded, and I’m grateful to them for helping us to ensure that 20 mph is targeted in the right places.

So, from September, highway authorities will begin to act on this feedback, applying the guidance to assess speed limits on roads under consideration where a change of speed limit may be appropriate. Local authorities will shortly be invited to submit bids for funding to enable them to make speed limit changes in line with the new guidance. An additional £5 million has been made available for this financial year.

The volume of feedback to highway authorities has varied considerably and so we might expect that some authorities will review more roads than others. As a result, timescales for this work are likely to vary as well. But, where appropriate and following assessment, highway authorities will begin the process of changing speed limits on certain roads by traffic regulation orders.

I’d like to place on record my sincere thanks to local authorities for their ongoing support for this work. The principal objective of this policy is to save lives and reduce casualties on our roads. As I’ve said before, I want to build from the consensus that 20 mph is the right speed limit near schools, hospitals, nurseries, community centres, play areas and in built-up residential areas. Through partnership working, I believe we can absolutely make 20 mph a success for Wales.

I’d like to take this opportunity to reflect on the implications of the new UK Government on the transport portfolio. Now—and I hope the Dirprwy Lywydd will indulge me for a moment—this is the first opportunity that I’ve had in the Senedd to congratulate the new UK Labour Government on their historic landslide victory on 4 July. Two Labour Governments, in Wales and in Westminster, will allow us to deliver better outcomes for the people we represent.

I’ve already had the pleasure of meeting the new Secretary of State for Transport, Lousie Haigh, and I already enjoy a very warm friendship with the new rail Minister. Lord Hendy has been a consistent and powerful advocate for Wales over many years, and his appointment is particularly encouraging. Through his work as chair of Network Rail, the union connectivity review and his deep personal connection with Wales, Lord Hendy has an unparalleled understanding of our transport priorities and the key challenges, and also the opportunities that we want to make progress on.

In the reserved area of rail infrastructure, I am confident we can work collaboratively to determine the right priorities for UK Government investment in Wales, working with Jo Stevens, who will be an important voice for Wales around the Cabinet table as Secretary of State for Wales, and building on the productive work that has taken place in recent years at official level, through the Wales rail board. Through mutual trust and respect, and by working together in close partnership, I am confident that we can improve services for rail passengers across Wales and the borders. In south-east Wales, and on the core Valleys lines in particular, we are demonstrating what our long-term vision for high-quality 'turn up and go' public transport can achieve.

Of course, I want to meet this scale of ambition for the whole of Wales, but we have delivered the metro transformation despite, not because of, the current rail operating model in Wales, which is the most complex model anywhere in the UK. There is growing consensus that this needs to change, and I am excited, Dirprwy Lywydd, that we now have a UK Government that wants to work with us to deliver rail reform, with shared values and a commitment to delivering a better railway for passengers and, indeed, for freight. Partnership in power and a Labour UK Government that believes, like we do here in Welsh Labour Government, that the railway is a fundamental public service belonging to us all, and its place is in the public sector rather than in the hands of shareholders and private investors. 

With Transport for Wales now consistently the most reliable operator in Wales, I look forward to working with colleagues at Westminster as we deliver on our shared ambition to make all operators in Wales accountable to the Welsh Government and this Senedd. I am also looking forward to delivering against the manifesto commitment to create an enhancements fund for Wales—a jointly agreed programme of investment that can begin to address the historic underfunding of our network and the managed decline of rail infrastructure that the previous administration at Westminster were forcing upon us. 

Beyond rail, I note the strong synergies between the UK Government’s plans for buses in England and the landmark bus Bill that we will soon be bringing forward to the Senedd. This, of course, was included in the First Minister’s statement on legislative priorities just last week. 

So, overall, it is an extremely exciting time for the future of transport in Wales, and I look forward to both Governments working together to meet our shared priorities for economic growth, responding to the climate challenge and reducing inequalities.

Thank you so much for this afternoon's statement, Cabinet Secretary, and I congratulate you and your party on your success in the elections.

Now, no matter how much time passes, a level of frustration and anger from the public towards this 20 mph policy doesn't seem to be changing. It's far too drastic, as many say, and continues to hamper people's day-to-day lives, and, unfortunately, is damaging hard-working businesses. And we must not forget that this policy is set to hit our economy and give it a £9 billion blow. When you took on your role earlier this year, we saw a dramatic shift in rhetoric towards the deeply unpopular 20 mph policy, especially when compared to your predecessor, and it has certainly gone down well with everybody. Instead of ploughing through regardless, you decided to launch a listening programme—I'm appreciative of that—in order to gauge the views and feedback of people, businesses and other stakeholders. Whilst I really do welcome this move and only wish it had been carried out before the policy was introduced, it absolutely remains the view that this £33 million project should be spiked completely—this is my view—and replaced with targeted measures. So, Cabinet Secretary, just how successful do you feel the listening programme has actually been?

You mentioned in your statement that you've met with a wide cross-section of people. Exactly how many people does that equate to in this, please, Cabinet Secretary? A rough estimate, just simply for my knowledge, alongside the public's, will do. Also, how exactly did you engage with them—face to face, social media, e-mails, et cetera? It would be really welcome to know how this listening process took place. I'd also appreciate it if you could also outline what specific communities you visited as part of the listening exercise. Of course, you'll be aware that the record-breaking petition to have the 20 mph scheme axed, which reached nearly 500,000 signatures, has certainly had a lot of momentum to it. So, Cabinet Secretary, have you visited any of the areas where the majority of people signed from, and spoken with local residents there, to understand their disenchantment with the policy? You said that some areas will be seeing more changes than others, which is absolutely fine and I can appreciate that, but based on the conversations that you've had through the listening programmes, in which areas do you expect to see the most changes made—north, south, west Wales? I'm sure the Chamber would love to hear it. 

It does also appear, though, that some common sense has indeed prevailed with this guidance, with the Government agreeing with the Welsh Conservatives there, where you're calling for 20 mph speed limits to be in place within certain areas, such as near schools, hospitals, community centres, et cetera. It's really welcome. It's music to my ears. Based on today's statement, it appears as though all of the emphasis, however, is being shifted away from the Government and onto local authorities. Isn't this just a case of the Welsh Government almost washing its hands of this contentious scheme and forcing councils to deal with the flak instead?

Turning to public engagement with local authorities, you say thousands have had their say over speed limits in their communities. However, sadly, Cabinet Secretary, I've been contacted by numerous constituents from across Wales, complaining about how difficult it actually was to submit feedback via council websites. Some were saying that entering road by road was an arduous task. Some said that the council was not taking feedback. And others were saying that they were told to contact the Welsh Government directly. Were any of these concerns raised with you, Cabinet Secretary, or with your officials, and if so, what action, if any, did you take to ensure that all voices were sincerely heard, because many have said that it has been, and I quote, a 'nightmare' to give feedback?

Turning to your desire for collaborative working with the new Labour Government in London, I'm really glad to hear it, so please, for the benefit of myself and colleagues, could you please outline what sort of things you expect to see coming forward as a result of this? You touched upon nationalising rail. Will Magor and Undy get a walkway station? Will the north Wales main line be electrified, as set out by the previous Conservative Government? I appreciate, Cabinet Secretary, you may not want to, given the ongoing uncertainty within the party at the moment, but I sincerely want to look ahead to the future, as do the people of Wales.

I must confess to everyone here today that I am disappointed that there is no mention of road building in today's statement. Cabinet Secretary, you're an intelligent man and I know you'll agree that road building is essential for cars, but it's also essential for public transport too. So, perhaps you can outline what work you'll be coming forward with in relation to road building as well. You speak of an integrated transport system in aspects of your future plan, such as a bus Bill. In my view, the Welsh Government should be using all the tools at its disposal to open up our transport economy and get Wales moving again. Building roads, for example, assists different industries such as freight and logistics, by maximising growth, efficiency and output. I understand that previously, Cabinet Secretary, you had committed to bringing forward a freight and logistics plan, but to date we are yet to see a plan in place for the industry, and they really would love to know what does the future hold for them. So, Cabinet Secretary, could you please outline where you are on this commitment and when the industry can expect to see some sort of fruition?

And finally, Cabinet Secretary, you said that a bus Bill will come before the Chamber soon. Could you please provide us with a more specific date? I'd be very grateful. Thank you.

Well, can I begin by thanking Natasha Asghar for her constructive challenge, and put on record my thanks for the way that she has challenged me in a very consistent way since I was appointed Cabinet Secretary? It has been in a constructive way that I have been challenged. We may have many disagreements, but, in the Chamber and outside of the Chamber, I think our dialogue and our discussion and debate has been very helpful indeed for me to be able to understand the perspectives of many people whom the Member represents. Now, I'm just going to touch on the very last question first, regarding the freight and logistics plan. We're going to be publishing that this year. We're working with the sector to make sure that that is a plan that is fit for purpose for the future.

The listening exercise for 20 mph was the most extensive and exhaustive challenge of its type that we've undertaken. As Natasha Asghar, I'm sure, can appreciate, when almost 0.5 million people sign a petition, the need to engage with as many organisations and individuals as possible is vitally important in responding to that sort of heat and anger that is generated amongst many people. So, I've met with a plethora of organisations and individuals, including twice with the gentleman who raised the petition. I visited Buckley, where one of the most contentious pilot schemes took place. I've met with all local authorities on numerous occasions. I've met with representative bodies for freight and logistics, emergency services, older people, younger people, people with disabilities. I have attempted to cover all bases in the programme of listening to the general public and to organisations, and it's been vitally important that we've offered the public the most consistent approach possible in responding to our call for information.

That has led to, I believe, in excess of 7,000 people making recommendations, and I do hope now that we will be able to take on board what people have told us at a local authority level, and what I'm finding consistently across Wales is that whilst the number of people who have raised concerns is very considerable, often people are raising the very same roads time and time again. So, local authorities have already produced preliminary lists in many parts of Wales. I can't say where the most changes will take place or where the least changes will take place—it will depend on the local authorities and how they respond to the feedback that they have had—but I'm incredibly grateful for the hard work and the patience of our local authorities during this period. I do hope that, by this time next year, we will have settled the policy, made changes to routes that need to change back to 30 mph, and that we will be able to move on with the general consensus that where 20 is working, it’s working right; where it wasn’t working, those speeds have gone back to 30 mph.

In terms of general working with UK Government on other matters, I’m particularly excited about the prospect of a rail enhancements fund. It has to be said, Dirprwy Lywydd, that at an official level, the Wales rail board has worked incredibly well in recent times. I hope that as we transition our relationships to a more collaborative form with UK Government, we will be able to utilise the Wales rail board and the rail enhancements fund to modernise our railway infrastructure in a way that it needs to be modernised. For decades upon decades, we have seen rail underinvested and, as a consequence, it is creaking in many parts of the UK, including here in Wales, and that needs to be addressed, and I’m looking forward to working with colleagues at Westminster to achieve this.

Tomorrow, of course, will see the King’s Speech. I’m very excited about the legislation that may be proposed in it. I’m looking forward to working with UK counterparts on areas of concern that chime with what we are trying to achieve in Wales, whether it be in terms of rail infrastructure, rail services. I note, for example, that the new Secretary of State, Louise Haigh, recently announced that she’d be summoning Avanti West Coast to her office to find out how they propose to improve services. I had a recent discussion with Avanti; although we have no control over Avanti West Coast’s services, it was a constructive discussion, and I am delighted that Louise Haigh is taking further immediate discussions with Avanti about delivering service improvements that need to be made on the west coast main line.

In terms of roads, as the Member is well aware, the roads review has been something that I have considered very carefully since I returned to this role. We want to make sure that we are building better than before. We are still building roads, but I want to make sure that we look at those projects that were paused, and ensure that we produce a framework that is enabling for local authorities, and for us in Welsh Government and our officials, to build higher quality roads that really do recognise the climate emergency and the nature emergency that we face. I’d like to be able to solve the problem rather than ignore the problem by utilising the most advanced materials and methods possible. In a recent committee appearance in the Senedd, I outlined some very recent materials that have been developed that can soak up more carbon than is actually embedded in a road surface. That sort of development is something that I want to see us embrace in Wales.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for the statement. On behalf of my party, I welcome the contrition in this statement that acknowledges that mistakes were made by the Government in the roll-out of 20 mph, and I’m also pleased to hear that there is a formal consultation with the general public on the matter. But to what extent is something I’d like to explore further in this contribution.

Broadly, Plaid Cymru welcome the partial u-turn on this policy. Early in the course of this legislation, we tabled a Senedd amendment and one that has gone forward and secured a commitment from the Welsh Government to review the new speed limit, and empower local authorities to make further exemptions. The Government was a little slow to act upon this, unfortunately, and this led to the loss of more goodwill for the principle of 20 mph roads. This is regretful and it makes change more difficult in the future.

Let me make it clear: Plaid Cymru remains committed to the principle of 20 mph roads and the extra safety that comes with them. That extra safety applies to motorists as well as pedestrians and cyclists, and the data collected at the end of last year shows encouraging signs of roads becoming safer. Last month, we heard that the number of casualties on 20 and 30 mph roads in Wales fell by almost a third in the last three months of the year. Welsh Government data showed that there were 463 casualties on such roads between October and December. This was down from 681 casualties in the corresponding months a year earlier. But there needs to be much more of that local voice in the determination of those 20 mph zones. I expect that most of them would remain in place, but to get the more balanced situation and achieve greater buy-in from communities throughout Wales, they need to be properly consulted with.

In your listening exercise, how did you intend to ensure that the genuine local voice was captured in re-examining some of those 20 mph changes, which may possibly end up reverting back to 30 mph? It's all well and good to invite people to make representations, but how much encouragement and publicity was given to this? At a time of precarious financial positions for local authorities throughout Wales, such an exercise would need to be properly funded and resourced, and it must not become yet another unfunded burden on our councils. Can you tell me how you intend to communicate with the public on this matter and the anticipated costs of such an exercise? Any changes—or not, as the case may be—should not come as a surprise to local people because they were unaware of the consultation. Can you also confirm whether this will be fully funded for local authorities if they are charged with carrying out the heavy lifting around the review and the setting of more robust and sustainable speed limits that are appropriate for the community?

I look forward to scrutinising the rest of the transport policies like the bus Bill that this Government are proposing over the next few months, and I look on with interest to see if the Welsh Secretary is able to find that elusive HS2 rail line and see if she can actually deliver on a Barnett consequential for that. I look forward to working with you on these, going forward. Thank you very much.

Diolch, Peredur. As I thanked Natasha Asghar for the way that she has been challenging me, I'd like to thank you as well. We've had few opportunities so far to discuss and to debate issues concerning transport here in the Chamber, but I am looking forward to working together as we move on. Likewise, I'd like to put on record my thanks to your predecessor in the role. Delyth was always very helpful in identifying concerns on behalf of the citizens that she represents.

I do think that showing humility and patience can dissolve anger and vexation. We've been trying to show humility over 20 mph, and we've been patient, but we've also appreciated the patience of the citizens of Wales in taking forward this listening exercise. I do hope, and I am firmly of the belief, that once we have been able to interrogate those 7,000 plus responses, we will be able to make a huge number of changes in terms of responses to those 7,000 people that will go a long way to satisfying people that the policy is now settled.

In terms of statistics, figures do go up and down, but it's encouraging to see things moving in the right direction. Every casualty reduced makes a real difference. In 2023, police in Wales reported that a total of 3,262 road collisions took place, sadly. That was a small decrease compared with 2022, and 24.7 per cent lower than in 2019. I would always caveat when I talk about improvements in the figures that in some quarters we will see them rise, in others we will see them fall. The key thing is that we look at the long-term trend, and we're confident that this policy will deliver the long-term benefits that it was designed to deliver.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I should have said in response to questions from Natasha Asghar, actually, that we also wrote to every town and community council in Wales, encouraging them to engage with their local authorities and to make observations. The consultation has been enormous. I do not believe we could have done more, and I am very grateful to everybody who has fed back views, opinions and ideas to the local authorities, and, indeed, to officials in charge of trunk roads in the Welsh Government. We'll be making the funding available to local authorities to make the changes necessary. We'll be making available up to £5 million from our budget. 

I should just say that the alternative to the 20 mph default policy would have been to go on using traffic regulation orders on individual roads. Sometimes, you're able to package them, but at a cost of between £3,000 and £5,000 per TRO, the costs for local authorities pursuing that method of reducing speed limits were becoming too great to bear. Also, the administrative burden on local authorities was just tying them up in too many knots, and so we were able to liberate—or that's the purpose of the policy—local authorities from that excessive bureaucracy, administration and cost that comes with making individual traffic regulation orders.

And finally, in response to Peredur's questions about rail funding, I am looking forward to working with counterparts in the UK Government, particularly on the rail enhancement fund for Wales. This is something that is hugely valuable as we look to improve the rail infrastructure of Wales in a way that has been needed for many decades.

I welcome the restatement of your three priorities, Minister, which are to listen, to work in partnership, and to make change happen. People I talk to agree that 20 mph is suitable for roads on estates, roads that are naturally narrowed to one lane by parked cars, areas of terraced housing and areas where you have either no pavement or a very narrow pavement.

I welcome the guidelines that set out that 30 mph limits could be considered on strategic roads outside urban centres and rural residential roads with no nearby facilities, strategic transport routes, A and B roads—that's why they're called A and B roads; I've been saying that to your predecessor continually, who looked at me blank most of the time—where the road characteristics allow.

I was campaigning last week on Llangyfelach Road, one of the main roads into Swansea, and 20 mph on that road was very unpopular. Residents did not understand why it was 20 mph, and to be perfectly honest, neither did I. When can the first roads be returned to 30 mph? There are very few roads that do need changing, but they do need changing as quickly as possible. 

Diolch, Mike. You've been consistent in your proposals for improving this policy and you've been right throughout. I hope that you'll be very happy with the revised guidance, because I think you yourself could've penned it; it is precisely what you were calling for. Errors have been made, but the new guidance will enable us to correct them, and it's my hope that, within this guidance, this framework, we will begin to see the process this autumn of changes to 20 mph areas. I should caveat that, though, by saying that there's the possibility of seeing some routes that are currently 30 mph reducing to 20 mph, because there have been calls in some parts of Wales for reduced speed limits. They're likely to be dwarfed, though, by the number of roads that would revert back from 20 mph  to 30 mph. That process will begin in the autumn. Signage changes, I imagine, will be made by the end of this year, going into the next calendar year. It's my hope and expectation that, by this time next year, it will be settled.

I'm grateful to the Cabinet Secretary for his statement today, which provides a welcome transport update. I'm grateful for the opportunity to raise a specific transport issue in my own area. The Cabinet Secretary will be aware that campaigners in Scleddau in my constituency have worked very hard to raise awareness of the dangers of the speed of traffic on the A40, and they did such a good job that the Welsh Government committed to reducing the speed limit on this particular stretch of road from 50 mph to 40 mph in the 2022-23 financial year. Unfortunately, it's now 2024 and there has been no progress, and local residents, as I'm sure the Cabinet Secretary can appreciate, are understandably frustrated. Therefore, I'd be grateful if the Cabinet Secretary could provide an update on the implementation of this long-standing transport commitment, along with a timetable for when the community in Scleddau can expect to see some actual progress on this front.

Can I thank Paul Davies and also say that I was delighted to meet with him very recently to discuss issues on behalf of his constituents? I will report back with a full, comprehensive update on the work that needs to be taken forward on the A40. And just to add to that, there are other Members in this Chamber who would like to see speed limits reduced on trunk roads and we are examining the feasibility of that. We're also taking forward the setting local speed limits in Wales work, which wlll hopefully address concerns that other Members have raised in the Chamber. 

Cabinet Secretary, first of all, may I welcome what you've had to say on 20 mph? I think there is quite a strong consensus that the existing policy did need adjustment, but that that adjustment would be what I would describe as tweaking, more than anything more substantial. Certainly, my experience in Newport East has been that people are largely supportive of the policy, but there are those certain roads that they think should return to 30 mph. One example is stretches of the B4245, which links the M4 motorway through Magor, Undy and Rogiet, through to Caldicot. That has been quite a strong concern for many local people. It's also rather inconsistent, in terms of the variation of the speed limit, from one speed to another, throughout the length of the road. So, I would welcome the review that you mentioned in terms of making that sort of change. But would you agree with me that there is strong emerging evidence, here and across the world, of the road safety benefits of 20 mph? Every single child's life that's saved is absolutely invaluable, and we do need to look at this policy in that context.

Just one other thing, very quickly—

No, you have had your time.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. 

Can I thank John Griffiths for the questions that he has raised? The route that he has highlighted—I think it's the B424—

The B4245.

Yes, that's the one. That has actually regularly been recognised as a route that needs to revert back to 30 mph. The point that John Griffiths makes about frequent speed changes is also something that local authorities have raised with us repeatedly, so we're hoping that that issue can be addressed as well. John is absolutely right about the need to save lives. Road safety is a huge issue concerning local authorities and the Welsh Government when we design and enhance roads. 

The world is changing incredibly rapidly in terms of technology, though, and there are huge advances being made in terms of vehicles and safety measures being incorporated into vehicles, including the ability for cars to be able to deviate from objects, including pedestrians and cyclists that suddenly come on to the road. Cars are going to be, in the not-too-distant future, operating on autonomous and semi-autonomous means, which will mean that enhanced safety will be delivered by that process as well. I'm really excited about the technology that is emerging in vehicles and how it can be used to protect lives.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your statement. Just a few things from me. One of the other challenges that we often get contacted about is noise nuisance from the trunk road network, particularly the A55, obviously, with traffic speeds there being up to 70 mph. I have been contacted by many constituents in Llanddulas in recent months, who were saying that they would very much appreciate the benefits of noise mitigation fencing, which, of course, is already through many other towns and villages along that part of the road network. So, I would appreciate it if you could tell us what action the Welsh Government is going to take on that front.

In addition, a few weeks ago, I raised with you the issue of rail fare disparity between north and south Wales, where the cost of a return or a single journey between Swansea and Cardiff is less than half the price of similar length journeys on the north Wales line. Clearly, that's unfair. It's not fair for passengers. It's not fair for anybody who needs to use the rail network. I want to know what action the Welsh Government is going to take with TfW in order to address that inconsistency. 

Can I thank Darren Millar for his questions? I know that Darren wrote to me recently concering the very same issue of noise assessments on the A55. Those noise assessments are being undertaken at the moment. I know that there has been a call for temporary measures to be considered. Unfortunately, because we are reaching the end of the assessment work, implementing temporary measures and then having to withdraw them would not make sense, and it would not deliver value for money. So, we want to finish that piece of work, assessing all of the points at which noise nuisance is problematic, and then implement barriers or whatever changes are necessary to improve people's lives.

In terms of rail fares, some are regulated, and some are not regulated. I am keen to work with the UK Government on a very transparent and fair fare system across the UK network. At the moment, we have a number of operators in Wales, and the fare regime can be very different, depending on the time of day, depending on the type of ticket, depending on the route, depending on where you start your journey, whether it's in Wales or out of Wales. I'd like there to be greater transparency and a far fairer system of fares in the future. I will be working with UK Government counterparts to do that, as well as with Transport for Wales.

And finally, Carolyn Thomas.

I welcome the listening and partnership working with councils regarding the roll-out of 20 mph. It is them as highway authorities who have to interpret and deliver legislation and guidance. They are struggling to maintain the existing highway infrastructure of roads, pavements and small bridges, while almost all transport grant funding has been diverted into active travel routes, and they can't be maintained.

It's also important that we listen to other road users, including public transport operators and police traffic officers, when delivering new legislation or highway safety measures. I am aware you have committed a lot of time to this, and I am very grateful. Officers are used to lowering speed limits under road safety, but not often making them up, which they will have to do, and are concerned about the liability. Would Welsh Government share that responsibility? Also, would you commit to realigning the funding for local transport grants to what's needed? Thank you.

Can I thank Carolyn Thomas for her questions? But also I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Carolyn Thomas for the enormous amount of work that she's undertaken personally in regard to 20 mph. Her help and assistance has been valued, not just by myself, but also my officials, and also, I know, by local authorities. So, thank you, Carolyn, for that work.

Carolyn's absolutely right that police need to be engaged whenever change takes place, and I've been working very closely with the police over the past few months, as part of the listening programme, and I'll be meeting again with chiefs to discuss GoSafe, how we can support the partnership moving forward. Carolyn makes a very important point about the confidence that local authority officials need to have in making changes that they deem to be necessary. I can assure the Member that I will writing to all local authorities, giving them the Welsh Government's support for the decisions that they make regarding the reversion of 20 mph routes back to 30 mph, to help them make the right decisions and to give them the confidence needed to do so.

Finally, Carolyn Thomas has regularly identified road maintenance as a major issue for local authorities, and I'm pleased to be able to tell Members that I'm looking at future budgets for local authorities—active travel, road maintenance, the entire package—and how we can devolve the decision-making process and the money, so that local authorities can decide how best to spend money in their local areas, because they know best.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

In accordance with Standing Order 12.24, unless a Member objects, the two motions under items 5 and 6, namely the Digital Government (Welsh Bodies) Regulations 2024, and item 6, the Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Act 2022 (Consequential Amendments) Regulations 2024, will be grouped for debate but with separate votes. I see that there are no objections.

Therefore, I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Education, Lynne Neagle.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I move the motions. The Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Act 2022 provides for the establishment of the Commission for Tertiary Education and Research and the simultaneous dissolution of the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales. The commission will be the regulatory body responsible for the funding, oversight and regulation of tertiary education and research in Wales. Tertiary education encompasses higher education, further education and training, apprenticeships, sixth forms and adult community learning. I am today seeking to make the necessary amendments to legislation required as a result of the dissolution of HEFCW and in order to enable the commission to become operational on 1 August 2024. 

I will firstly turn to the Digital Government (Welsh Bodies) Regulations 2024. These regulations amend the list of relevant Welsh authorities in Part 2 of Schedule 8 to the Digital Economy Act 2017, removing HEFCW and adding the commission, so as to enable the commission to share data with the other public authorities listed for the purposes of combatting fraud against the public sector. HEFCW's current powers have been long-standing and, thankfully, have never been used. However, it is only fitting that the body that will replace them should have similar powers in the unlikely event they prove to be necessary.

In accordance with section 56(12) of the 2017 Act, we have carried out a public consultation, as well as having consulted with the specified persons. The proposed changes were supported.

The second statutory instrument before you today, the Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Act 2022 (Consequential Amendments) Regulations 2024, will ensure that existing primary and secondary legislation accurately reflects the legislative changes resulting from dissolution of HEFCW and the creation of the commission. As Members will be aware, we are adopting a phased approach to implementing the 2022 Act, and these consequential regulations reflect the staged nature of commencement and primarily replace references to HEFCW in existing legislation with references to the commission.

I ask Members to approve these regulations today.

I now call on the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, Mike Hedges.

Diolch, Llywydd. The committee considered both of these sets of draft regulations last week, and our reports are available from today’s agenda.

The committee did not report any issues with the draft Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Act 2022 (Consequential Amendments) Regulations 2024. My comments this afternoon will focus on the committee’s report on the Digital Government (Welsh Bodies) (Wales) Regulations 2024.

The committee’s report on the digital government regulations contains two merits reporting points. The first merits point seeks clarity from the Welsh Government as to whether or not a regulatory impact assessment has been carried out in relation to the regulations, because there is conflicting information between the explanatory note and the explanatory memorandum. The Welsh Government has acknowledged that the statement in the explanatory note is incorrect, and it is the information in the explanatory memorandum that is correct. The explanatory memorandum explains that, whilst the regulations would not require a regulatory impact assessment in their own right, they are within the scope of the assessment that accompanied the Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Act 2022.

The Government has committed to amend the explanatory memorandum to make matters clearer. We would welcome confirmation from the Cabinet Secretary in her closing remarks that the statement in the explanatory note will also be corrected before the regulations are signed into law.

The second merits point highlights information specifically drawn to the committee’s attention in the explanatory memorandum, namely that, in making these regulations, the Welsh Ministers are exercising a Henry VIII power available to them.

I have no other speakers. Cabinet Secretary, if you want to respond.

Thank you, Llywydd, and it was very remiss of me not to thank LJC for their scrutiny of these regulations, and I'm very happy to provide the assurances that the Chair has asked for today. I ask Members to support these regulations. 

The proposal is to agree the motion under item 5. Does any Member object? No, therefore the motion is agreed. 

The proposal is to agree the motion under item 6. Does any Member object? No, there is no objection to that, therefore that motion is also agreed.

There is a proposal under Standing Order 12.24 to debate the general principles and financial resolution in respect of the Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidates Lists) Bill. The proposal is that they are grouped for debate, but with separate votes. If everyone is content with that, we will do that. There are no objections to that.

Therefore, the proposal on the general principles is to be made by the Trefnydd, Jane Hutt. 

Thank you very much, Llywydd. It's a pleasure to open this debate, which marks another important milestone in the history of this Bill.

I'm delighted to open this debate on the general principles of the Senedd (Cymru) (Electoral Candidates Lists) Bill and move the associated motions on its general principles and financial resolution. We have made great strides this Senedd term in bringing forward legislation to transform democracy here in Wales. The Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Act 2024, which is now on the statute book, will enhance this Senedd's capacity for effective scrutiny and will deliver a proportional electoral system for the 2026 election.

Last week this Senedd passed the Elections and Elected Bodies (Wales) Bill, which will continue to reform our Welsh electoral system, making it fit for the twenty-first century. Today we are voting on the general principles of a third landmark Bill, the Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidates Lists) Bill, which has the purpose of making the Senedd a more effective legislature for and on behalf of the people of Wales. For this Bill, Wales has a chance of following in the footsteps of many other countries worldwide that have recognised the benefits of more women in politics. Evidence from around the world shows that increasing the number of women legislators can lead to a more effective legislature, and over 130 countries, including Ireland, use quotas for this purpose. Dr Fiona Buckley noted that, and I quote:

'Since the adoption of legislative gender quotas, Ireland has seen a 44% increase in the number of women elected to Dáil Éireann, rising from 25 in 2011 to 36 in 2020'.

This debate, Llywydd, marks the end of Stage 1 scrutiny of this Bill, and I'm grateful to all committee members for their detailed scrutiny of the legislation, and to everyone who gave evidence. I've responded formally to the 47 recommendations made by the Reform Bill Committee and Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, and in writing to the Finance Committee following the letter about the financial implications of the Bill. 

At the start of this process, I said I intended to carefully consider the outcome of the Stage 1 scrutiny process, and I spent considerable time doing just that, discussing issues raised by committees with Members and key stakeholders, many of whom feel passionately that this is a landmark piece of legislation that we simply must get on the statute book. And in the time available this afternoon, I can't cover all the recommendations, but while I have not been able to accept all the recommendations, I've accepted or noted the vast majority. A number of recommendations require further consideration of their appropriateness and feasibility, and these I've accepted in principle, to give a clear indication that if the general principles of the Bill are agreed, this work will be a priority ahead of the first amending Stage. 

I welcome the Reform Bill Committee's first recommendation by the majority of Members that Members of the Senedd should agree the general principles of the Bill, while having regard to issues highlighted in the report. I'm pleased that the committee recognises the model put forward in this Bill for legislative gender quotas is aligned with international good practice, and is fit for purpose here in Wales. 

There are a number of recommendations and conclusions relating to the question of legislative competence and steps the Welsh Government should consider taking, ideally before this Senedd is asked to pass the legislation, and I've noted these recommendations, including those that propose speaking to the UK Government, and I'll consider those further. However, I reiterate, as I've said from the outset, I consider the Bill to be within the Senedd's legislative competence. 

The committees reported their concerns about the impact of potential legal challenges on the conduct and outcome of the scheduled 2026 Senedd election, and delivery of the wider reforms planned for that election. I take these concerns seriously, and I've reflected further on what would be the most prudent and responsible pathway for implementing this legislation. Protecting the outcome and integrity of the 2026 Senedd election, including implementation of the Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Act, is of utmost importance, and I've concluded that the more responsible approach is for this Bill to be implemented for the scheduled 2030 Senedd election. This will ensure that the legislation can be implemented in an orderly way, and gives time for any potential legal challenges to be resolved well in advance of that election. 

However, it is important that the Senedd, public and our stakeholders have certainty over these plans. I will therefore bring forward an amendment to the Bill to take commencement out of the hands of Welsh Ministers, and ensure that its provisions, subject to Royal Assent, commence automatically to take effect for the scheduled 2030 Senedd election. In the meantime, I'm keen to work with partners to maximise what we can do through the diversity and inclusion strategy's guidance to be published next year, and we will consider how we can use that guidance to encourage voluntary action to improve the number of women candidates, and that's for all parties. That is guidance, of course, in the legislation that we just passed last week. 

I'd like to touch on some of the other recommendations in the reports. I accept in principle the Reform Bill Committee's recommendation 7 for the national nominations compliance officer to be able to appoint a deputy, and confirm, in response to recommendation 8, that we're discussing with the Electoral Commission extending its powers so it may determine performance standards for the national nominations compliance officer, much in the same way as it currently does for returning officers.

I accept in part the Reform Bill Committee's recommendations 2 and 4 relating to the withdrawal of candidates and how this may affect political parties' compliance with the rules, and I hope my response provides reassurance that these matters have been considered in detail and that the issues raised during Stage 1 scrutiny will form part of that consideration.

I have, however, rejected recommendations made by both committees relating to section 2 of the Bill, which is the proposed approach for reviewing the operation and effect of the Act. This approach aligns with equivalent provisions in the Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Act 2024. It makes sense that these review mechanisms align as a package of reforms, and I do not concur that the provisions constrain the freedom of a future Senedd. I've accepted in principle the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee's recommendation 14, calling for more of the information currently in the statement of policy intent to be included in the primary legislation. And while this is not straightforward, particularly given the existing balance between primary and secondary legislation for Senedd elections and the desire to make the legislation accessible to those who have responsibility for its implementation, I am prepared to consider further what details maybe feasible and appropriate to provide for on the face of the Bill. I've also undertaken to provide more detail about the timetable for subordinate legislation at the appropriate juncture.

I have accepted in principle recommendation 22 of the Reform Bill Committee relating to research on barriers facing candidates from under-represented groups, and accepted other recommendations relating to progress that can be made separately from this Bill to attract and encourage a more diverse range of candidates to stand for Senedd elections, including working with stakeholders to support candidates who face harassment and abuse. I welcome the Reform Bill Committee's report's recommendations that are aimed at the Senedd Commission, as I recognise the importance of the Senedd too for taking further steps in ensuring that this place is as inclusive and accessible as possible in terms of culture and ways of working. And, indeed, we've started that work in our preparedness work.

I welcome the views of the Finance Committee, and I've committed to ensuring that the regulatory impact assessment is revised at the appropriate time and reflects any additional costs that may arise from amendments to the Bill.

Finally, Llywydd, during recent weeks, I wanted to report that I've spoken to a number of key stakeholders, including representatives of the Diverse5050 coalition, the Women's Equality Network, the Electoral Reform Society, Stonewall Cymru and Plaid Cymru, the women's caucus and the cross-party women's group about the importance of this legislation and moving forward with it, with their backing and support, to the next stage, and I'm keen to continue with those discussions. Diolch.

I was just wondering, and I'm sorry if I've missed it already, but could you say something more about the reason that you have concluded, contrary to one of the key recommendations of the LJC Committee, I believe, that having an Order in Council that explicitly brings everything relevant within the Bill under our legislative competence doesn't take the issue that you're concerned about, and the reason that you're delaying implementation to 2030, completely off the table? Why couldn't we apply for that Order in Council today, from a Labour Government at Westminster, so that we can have a gender-balanced Parliament in 2026? I simply don't understand the logic, so maybe if you could explain.

I was anticipating questions, Adam Price, of course, on that very point. In terms of what we want to do now—and I've mentioned engagement with the UK Government, and, indeed, we were engaging with the previous UK Government already—we have now opened a dialogue with the Wales Office. I'll say more about this, I'm sure, in response, because we've opened a dialogue with the Wales Office, our officials have already had a preliminary meeting, and obviously we'll want to update our colleagues and Members as we go through this and as we go through the next stage, we hope, of scrutiny. I think one of the issues, I'll just say, at this point, is that we have been advised that a section 109 Order wouldn’t put the question of competence beyond doubt, nor would it remove the risk of a referral to the Supreme Court or other legal challenge; it’s only the ruling of the Supreme Court on a question of competence that can put the matter beyond doubt. But it is important that, on the recommendation from the Reform Bill Committee, I start that process in terms of addressing the prospect and opportunity for a section 109 Order, but I hope I’ll have more chance in the response to the debate, Llywydd, too.

I’ll just finish my concluding remarks. This is really about the importance of this legislation and moving forward with it to the next stage. That’s what we have to do today, accept and support the general principles of this Bill, and to recognise that we believe we have a credible legal case in terms of competence; I’ve made that very clear. We do have to continue all the discussions throughout the Bill’s passage, exploring with partners what we can do to encourage political parties to take voluntary steps to increase women’s representation for our 2026 Senedd.

Obviously, I now look forward to hearing the opinions of fellow Members on this Bill. But can I just repeat and, finally, say, Llywydd, that this is a landmark Bill offering the opportunity for a more effective Senedd that’s more reflective of the people that it serves and is fit for purpose, in line with international best practice, for the next 20 years and beyond? And I also think—. And this comes from all our special purpose committees, and indeed right back to the expert panel, and I can see Huw Irranca here, chairing, and indeed Dawn Bowden; there are many here who have been engaged as members of those committees that took us to this point, which was voted to support, back in 2022, that we should take this forward. It’s a vital part, this Bill, of the full package of Senedd reform measures, and now it’s time to seize the opportunity and move forward with the Bill. Diolch.

The Chair of the Reform Bill Committee now to contribute—David Rees.

Thank you, Llywydd. Before I focus on the content of the committee's report, I'd like to thank everyone who provided evidence to the committee in writing and in person. They have helped to shape our work and its outcomes.

I also want to put on record our thanks to the committee team, whose excellent work allowed us to complete our work within the shortened time frame that we had.

Now, Llywydd, the Senedd's role is to represent the interests of everybody in Wales, and diversity amongst Members enriches our work and is central to a well-functioning democracy. As a committee, we all support the aspiration of a truly representative Senedd that better reflects the people it serves.

Now, on the general principles, this is the second Bill we have dealt with that is going through the parliamentary reform process. Obviously, the first Bill is already an Act, and this now follows on from that. It aims to increase the number of women who stand for election by introducing quotas for candidates standing for political parties. Our role was to explore the Bill’s proposals and report on the general principles to inform the Senedd’s decision this afternoon.

I wish to place on record also my thanks to Jane Dodds, who was a member—or actually, technically, who worked with the committee—and also Vikki Howells, who substituted for one of our members, Sarah Murphy, during our final consideration, for both the positive and constructive way in which they approached our work.

Now, following our consideration, as the Trefnydd has also already said, the majority of committee members are persuaded by the international and academic evidence that legislative candidate quotas are an effective mechanism for increasing levels of women’s representation in parliaments. The majority of committee members recommend, therefore, that the Senedd should vote in favour of the general principles in this Bill.

But we all agree that there are aspects of the Bill that need to be strengthened and improved if it does progress today. I’ll go through a couple of those points. On the candidate statement aspect, throughout our scrutiny, significant attention has been drawn to the requirement for political parties’ candidates to make a statement about whether they are a woman or not a woman. The majority of committee members are content with this provision and believe it to be a proportionate means of implementing and enforcing compliance with the quota rules. But we listened carefully to concerns that the legislation could be susceptible to abuse. We all agree that it is necessary, therefore, to include making a false statement within the corrupt practice offence that applies to the provision of any other false information on a nomination form. We believe that that should be the same for all aspects of nomination consideration and all statements made. It is disappointing that the Trefnydd rejected this key recommendation. I do hope she reconsiders that, because it's about making sure that consistency applies to every statement made.

Now, on the removal of candidates from lists, we had some concerns here, because we heard that quota rules may be open to abuse in other ways. We were concerned, for example, that women, in particular, could be pressured into standing for election to comply with the quota, and then be pressured to withdraw their candidacy or resign, if elected, quickly. So, women who would want to stand could face threats of violence or intimidation to pressure them to withdraw or resign once elected. The general election we've just seen has shown how intimidation does occur, and we need to ensure that we protect individuals from such abuse. To prevent such abuse and maximise the opportunity to maintain the balance of representation throughout the Senedd term, we recommended strengthening the Bill by requiring the party that chooses to stand an additional candidate to replace any withdrawn candidate with someone who has made the same statement as the person who has withdrawn. Or, in vacancies, and I appreciate this is the candidates list and not the vacancy agenda, which, actually, is after you've been elected, but you could amend the Act, which is now in place, to ensure that vacancies are addressed to ensure that, during a Senedd term, if a vacancy exists, it’s filled, where possible, with someone who submits the same candidate statement as that person who is standing down or leaving or is no longer a Member of the Senedd, thereby continuing the balance that we've talked about. Again, the Trefnydd, unfortunately, did not share our position on this, and I would hope that she will perhaps fully explain an alternative she’ll have or she is thinking of or is being considered to guard against the risks identified by our evidence gathering.

And financial implications. I'm sure the Chair of the Finance Committee will agree with some of those issues, but we did question the approach taken to the regulatory impact assessment, as some costs are estimated for the Bill specifically, while others appear to be addressed in the RIA to the Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill. This means that it is unclear as to what the financial implications would be if this Bill is commenced at a later date, which is what we've been told; it will happen at a later date. So, we know that's the intention, so we need that clarity. And for clarity and transparency and accountability, we call for all costs associated with the Bill to be detailed directly in a revised RIA. Now, in response, the Trefnydd indicated that further consideration will be given to this, but that would not be available until after Stage 2. It would be helpful if it was before Stage 2 consideration so that Members, when they go through Stage 2, can actually have that knowledge in front of them.

We then identified factors that are not in the Bill, and are not necessarily legislative issues, but what we saw as barriers to encouraging women, and we called it 'quota plus'. So, how do we ensure that women do put themselves forward, or we encourage women to put themselves forward, and we encourage them to stay and remain in elected office? And therefore we call for action, both within the Senedd and within the Government, to actually help support individuals who are putting themselves forward. We wanted to know, first of all, will the Senedd actually undertake a gender-sensitive audit to ensure that we have the culture, ways of working and facilities. We often talk about family-friendly ways, and it's going to be, probably, mentioned today, but we need to look at what are the cultural aspects here. Let's look at that aspect. That's a Commission job—sorry, Llywydd, that's going to be on you. But also that the Welsh Government commissions research on the best ways to provide financial support for women candidates from underrepresented groups, because we definitely heard of that aspect, to ensure that the Government works with partners to ensure sufficient guidance is in place to support those who wish to actually be candidates, and particularly on how they handle abuse and harassment. And, regardless of the Bill’s progress, we want to see greater representation in 2026, and we need to have these things in place for 2026 to encourage more women to come forward for that election.

Now I'll talk about the last issue, and it's legislative competence. Though modest in size—this Bill is small—it is significant, and the provisions affect a key cornerstone of our democratic process. So, beyond the policy issues and our aspirations that we all share for a more representative Senedd, there are conflicting views as to whether the Bill’s provisions are within legislative competence. I've heard the Trefnydd’s view—we heard that in committee. We heard—. The majority of evidence we had from legal advisers was that it wasn't. So, there are questions, and it was made clear to us in committee that the only body that can actually clearly and finally make that determination is the Supreme Court, and a referral to the Supreme Court can only be made once the Bill has been passed and within four weeks of the Bill being passed at Stage 4. Now, I welcome the impact of what the Trefnydd has said about delaying, so that it doesn't have a complicated knock-on effect on 2026, but if we don't address this, in 2030 we could have a candidate approaching on a legal challenge if we don't address this matter. So, competence is an issue that should be considered, and the solution of 2030 isn't the only answer. It still has to be resolved. And we ask that the Counsel General does refer to the Supreme Court for clarification, and make it clear: let's get no questions about it, no-one can then challenge it; it's actually specifically clear, so that we can have an input on that.

Now, I'm conscious of time, Llywydd, and I will finish. We do welcome the clarification on the intended pathway, but there's one question I want to raise. There was a lot of 'noted' in the responses to our committee's recommendations, and the Trefnydd has actually said 'for further consideration'. But can I ask when will we have that further consideration? When will we know what your answers are to those things that are said to be noted? When will it be published, because Members will want to have an answer to those considerations? Diolch.

The Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee now. Mike Hedges.

Diolch Llywydd. The committee's report drew seven conclusions and made 22 recommendations. The Welsh Government accepted 10 of these recommendations to varying degrees, noted nine and rejected three. Before I start, I would like to register the committee's disappointment that Stage 1 scrutiny of the Bill was curtailed, only for the date of this debate to be delayed. I will focus my remarks on two important themes from our report: the risk of legal challenge to the Bill, and the level of detail appearing on its face.  

The risk of legal challenge concerns the matter of whether the Bill is within the Senedd's legislative competence. In that regard, I would like to make two important points. First, as we have heard, the question of whether a Bill is within the legislative competence of the Senedd can only be determined by the Supreme Court. For that reason, the committee's report does not seek to address that matter directly. Secondly, the merits or otherwise of a Welsh Government policy is a different and separate matter from whether the Senedd has the legislative competence to translate that policy into law. The two should not be conflated.

The committee's report notes that there are differing views about whether the Bill is within the legislative competence of the Senedd, not only between the Llywydd and the Trefnydd, but also amongst legal professionals. Some of these legal professionals have highlighted the risk of legal challenge to the Bill, and, consequently, the possibility of disruption to the next scheduled Senedd elections in 2026. It has been suggested that this could, in turn, jeopardise the integrity of the election itself and damage Welsh democracy. While not coming to a view on the issue of legislative competence, the committee did explore therefore the risk of legal challenge to the Bill. As a result, the committee made six recommendations intended to ensure that the risk of disruption in 2026 is minimised.    

In light of the uncertainty about whether the Bill is within the Senedd's legislative competence, the committee also expressed regret that the Senedd is being asked to vote today on whether or not it agrees to the Bill's general principles. This general point applies equally should the Senedd be invited to vote on a Bill at Stage 4. Nevertheless, the committee welcomes the Trefnydd's comment in her response that further steps now need to be taken to mitigate risks to the 2026 election. The committee notes that, as a consequence, the Trefnydd will table an amendment to provide that the Bill's provisions, subject to Royal Assent, will take effect for the scheduled 2030 Senedd election. There remain, however, many unresolved issues and the committee will monitor developments closely.

Turning now to the second theme I mentioned at the start of my speech, the committee concluded that the Bill does not achieve an appropriate balance between what is included on its face and the detail to be included in subordinate legislation, in this case an Order under section 13 of the Government of Wales Act 2006. Such an order concerns the conduct of an election. The face of the Bill should provide the Senedd with a clear indication of the nature and scope of the powers it is being asked to delegate to the Welsh Ministers. This would be more appropriate than giving the Welsh Ministers what amounts to a blank cheque to legislate by Order on electoral matters that will be subject to a 'take it or leave it' vote.

The committee were told that the statement of policy intent accompanying the Bill sets out details of what the Welsh Government intends to include in the relevant conduct Order, but including information in such a statement is not a substitute for putting detail on the face of the Bill or a valid justification for not doing so. If the detail is known, consideration should be given to including it on the face of the Bill in the first instance. The reason for this is simple. The statement of policy intent is not binding on this, or a future Welsh Government. How delegated powers could be used by the Welsh Ministers of a future Government implementing this Bill prior to the 2030 election is a different matter from how the Welsh Government says it intends to use them during scrutiny of this Bill. And equally as important, including detail on the face of the Bill allows for Government proposals to be tested by amendment if necessary. Members will not be able to table amendments to propose changes to the conduct Order because it is a piece of subordinate legislation.

The committee therefore made five recommendations aimed at strengthening the face of the Bill. It is welcome that the Trefnydd has accepted four of these in principle and the committee hopes that the Welsh Government will bring forward amendments to improve the Bill as we suggested.

The Chair of the Finance Committee now, Peredur Owen Griffiths.

Thank you, Llywydd, and I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate, and I am grateful to the Trefnydd and Chief Whip for attending the Finance Committee and for responding to the points we raised through correspondence.

Before I turn to specific issues on the Bill, I want to highlight a general concern that we have—similar to those expressed today—over the costs associated with a legal challenge should the Bill be referred to the Supreme Court for a determination on the Senedd’s legislative competence.

Whilst regulatory impact assessments accompanying Bills don’t normally contain costs associated with potential legal challenge, this is the first time that the Llywydd has issued a statement that a Bill

'would not be within the legislative competence of the Senedd'.

As a result, we want clarity on the additional legal costs that will be incurred by the Welsh Government, and are grateful to the Trefnydd for agreeing to keep the committee informed of such costs should the Bill be referred. Although the costs arising from the Bill are relatively modest, we note that they need to be considered in the wider context of the Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Act, given the interrelationship between both. Our comments on this Bill therefore should be considered alongside the recommendations made in relation to that legislation.

The RIA estimates the total cost of implementing this legislation to be £21,000 over the eight-year appraisal period. However, during the Trefnydd’s appearance before the Reform Bill Committee, it came to light that there will be additional costs of approximately £6,000 in respect of staff deployed by the Electoral Commission to prepare for implementation of the reforms. We are disappointed that this information was not shared with the Finance Committee, particularly given the increase is a significant proportion of the final cost of the Bill. Nevertheless, we are pleased that the Trefnydd has agreed, subject to the general principles being agreed today, to revise the RIA after Stage 2, to include the additional costs of £6,000 identified by the Electoral Commission; any costs associated with the appointment of a deputy national nominations compliance officer, should such a requirement be agreed; and any other additional costs that may arise from amendments to the Bill.

I would also like to echo the comments made by the Chair of the Reform Bill Committee that it is unclear what the financial implications would be if the Bill is commenced at a later date. I agree that these details should be included in a revised RIA—ideally before Stage 2—as this fundamentally alters the estimates outlined, and particularly the timescales over when the costs will fall, and we would welcome further information on this issue.

Finally, Llywydd, I'd like to welcome the clarification that costs incurred by local authorities for updating the electoral management system will be reimbursed by the Welsh Government. The Trefnydd has committed to publishing full and robust RIAs alongside subordinate legislation made under this Bill. Thank you very much.

It will come as no surprise to anybody in this Chamber that the Welsh Conservatives will not be supporting the progress of this particular Bill, and that is not because we do not support the aim, which is to make sure that this Senedd is more representative of the people that we serve around Wales; it’s simply because we do not believe in the principle of gender quotas, and we certainly don’t believe that the system that is being proposed by the Welsh Government is either proportionate or appropriate.

Now, we’ve already heard tested in the Chamber this afternoon the competency issue, about which there are significant reservations. In fact, the advice to the committee from its legal experts was that it was without the Senedd’s competence—that was the advice, of course, to the Llywydd as well—and even those legal experts that suggested it might be within competence all seemed to acknowledge that it was highly likely to be in a position where that would be challenged through the courts. And that’s why I agree with the conclusions of the Finance Committee and the LJC committee and our own committee in that this needs to be put beyond doubt prior to this piece of legislation actually being implemented.

In terms of the legislation not being proportionate, we do know that the Senedd has had consistently higher representation of women, which is something that we've celebrated in the Senedd, than in other parliaments around the world, and, in fact, of course, we did achieve parity without the need for statutory gender quotas. I appreciate that the only reason we achieved that parity was because some political parties took positive action within their candidate selection processes in order to ensure that there was a better balance of women representation in electable positions on lists and in candidate seats, but that was achieved through voluntary arrangements, without the need for a legislative quota. So, it would not therefore be necessary and proportionate to legislate in this area, given that we've already achieved parity here in the past.

Of course, we've got a new electoral system that is going to come in 2026, and that could change things significantly. It gives us this opportunity, and that is why the former leaders of both the Labour group and the Plaid Cymru group in this Senedd hatched an agreement to have gender-zipped lists, but, of course, this proposal isn't about gender-zipped lists; this is about the introduction of a system that, effectively, will introduce the ability for candidate lists to be put forward by political parties that have 100 per cent women represented on those lists, but only a maximum of up to 50 per cent men. That seems to me to be very disproportionate. It doesn't seem to be right. I appreciate that might be an unlikely outcome, but it is legally going to be possible, given this framework, which we are being asked to approve, making progress here this afternoon.

The other thing that we have a contention with about this Bill is it pits this one aspect of diversity, gender, against all of the other aspects of diversity, which are completely ignored by the Bill. So, we don't touch on issues of faith, of disability, of race, of age and all of these other factors also being incorporated into making this place a more diverse and representative Chamber for the people of Wales. I feel that that is wrong. There are opportunities to be able to address some of those things, even with this Bill, that we're not taking up, and I think that that is extremely disappointing.

Would the Member give way?

Of course. Very happy to.

Following him closely, there are Parliaments in the world that have intersectional quotas that actually do use legislative quotas not just for gender, but also for other aspects of under-representation. Would he support that approach?

I'd certainly support considering that approach. Look, I don't believe that we should have quotas at all, but if we're going to have them, let's try and make sure that we incorporate as many aspects of diversity into those quotas as possible. It's the principle of the quotas that I disagree with. Of course, we would always make the argument that people should be elected on merit. I believe that that is a principle that we have always stood by, and, of course, it's not stopped us being able to deliver three women Conservative party leaders and three women Prime Ministers in the past. The last one, of course, we'd like to forget a little bit more about, but we have, actually, been able to deliver that without any quota systems in the Conservative party, and I would hope very much that my party will do more in the future, on a voluntary basis, in order to make sure that we have more women representation in this Parliament. We've done well on some other aspects of diversity, but we've not done particularly well on gender.

Just finally, if I might, the final concern we have is over the declaration that is going to be required of candidates in the future. This declaration is not about declaring yourself to be a man or a woman, or male or female. It's 'woman' or 'not a woman', and there are big, contentious issues that that potentially presents in people being able to self-identify themselves in a way that I don't believe is particularly helpful, and it does leave it potentially open to abuse. Now, we did discuss this a little in the committee, and I appreciate that not everybody in the committee held the same concerns that I did, but I think, nevertheless, there are many people out there in Wales who do hold those concerns, and I think it would be poor if we didn't listen to them. Thank you.

On behalf of Plaid Cymru, I’d like to welcome the introduction of this Bill today. It was a key part of our co-operation agreement, and it is a cornerstone of our efforts to create a more representative Senedd. I'd like to thank the Chair, my fellow Members and the clerks of the Reform Bill Committee. I share the frustrations expressed by the Chair that the scrutiny period has been limited, and then to see this delay. It's important that we do learn lessons from this.

Gender equality is vital for a healthy and functioning democracy. We have been clear from the very beginning that the task of Senedd reform must ensure that the majority that makes up 51 per cent of the population is never again a minority in our national Parliament. I regret, therefore, that the legislation’s implementation is being delayed until at least 2030, and I’d like to hear from the Trefnydd today whether there have been any discussions with the Labour Government in Westminster yet to ensure that we have the powers, unambiguously, to introduce this change by 2026, as Adam Price outlined. After all, the general election has been held earlier than anticipated, which means it should be easier to gain clarity on this matter and on the timescale. 

This Senedd has a proud history of promoting women’s participation in politics, which includes, as Darren Millar mentioned, being the first Parliament in the world to deliver equal representation in terms of gender back in 2003. But if history has taught us anything, it’s that we can never take progress for granted. The work of safeguarding fundamental rights can never come to an end. And the reality is, since 2003, the number of women in this Chamber has gradually declined. And the only reason that levels aren’t even lower is because of the action taken by some of the parties represented here. 

I would like to pick up on your point, Darren, in terms of merit. We are not in an equal society; there are so many barriers that stop women from being able to be appointed to a myriad of different roles. And so many women who would make a massive contribution and an important contribution to this Senedd will never be elected under the system that we have. So, I don't accept that everybody of the 60 Members here are the 60 best people in Wales to be in this Chamber.

I'm grateful to you for taking the intervention. It was not meant as a slight against anybody. I agree with you that there are barriers to women getting into politics, and other under-represented groups, unfortunately, and we need to remove the barriers for all of them. That includes people who have different colour skin than I have, that includes people who have a different faith background than I have. This is why I think that we've got to concentrate not just on one aspect of diversity, but all of them. I certainly do support—and my support is noted in the paper—all of those things that we said as a committee, jointly, that we need to do to remove those other barriers. Because it's not right that women face institutional barriers, and nor is it right that others do. 

Women are the major under-represented group—51 per cent—and there have been Members of the Conservative benches who have tweeted about this and, frankly, do not take into account the fact that women do face barriers and do believe that they are here because of merit—something that we need to challenge and call out, actually, because women have been prevented from being here for a myriad of different reasons. So, I don't accept that we don't have to focus on the role of women and righting that wrong.

This problem isn’t unique to Wales, of course. At present, only six countries have a 50 per cent or higher proportion of women in their parliaments, and at the current rate of change, gender parity won’t be achieved globally until 2063 at the earliest. We also need to consider the terrifying levels of hate, sexism and harassment faced by female politicians every day, and recognise that the barriers preventing women from entering politics continue to be substantial.

The United Nations has estimated that in countries that have quotas for election candidates, representation by women in their parliaments is between five and seven percentage points higher than in countries without such legislative provision. And we must note, of course, that this Bill doesn’t deliver everything that we wanted to see as a party in terms of expanding representation, but it is an important step forward in creating a more open and inclusive political environment.

The issue of legislative competence in this Bill requires certainty, so that there is no further ambiguity, and we need to demand the relevant powers unequivocally for this Senedd. With this Bill, we have an opportunity to set course as a nation on a democratic path to a more progressive future. And we, here in this Senedd, should be able to decide whether we do exactly that.

As Plaid Cymru spokesperson on equalities, and as a member of the cross-party parliamentary group on women, chaired by Siân Gwenllian, I would like to refer specifically to the element of the Bill that introduces gender quotas. My fellow member of Plaid Cymru, Heledd Fychan, has set out clearly why gender quotas are needed, and I myself have presented, in this Chamber and before the Reform Bill Committee, as a representative of the women’s caucus, the indisputable arguments in favour of quotas as the most effective method of delivering gender equality in our democracy.

So, I won't rehearse all of those arguments again, only to emphasise that gender equality is a clear and unequivocal expression of a fair, just, effective and legitimate democracy, and that gender quotas would lead to this in the most effective way. So, the central point is that quotas are crucial to the process of strengthening our democracy in Wales and improving the Senedd’s efficiency here. Therefore, I welcome the fact that quotas will be introduced through the Bill—in the end. And that’s what’s disappointing: that they won’t be in place in time for our next election, as intended—as promised, indeed.

Much has been made of the record of this Senedd, and a great deal has been made of the fact that 40.6 per cent of Members of Parliament in Westminster are now women—the largest number ever. But we must remember that the proportion of women in the Labour and Conservative parliamentary parties at Westminster has decreased, and no party presented a slate of candidates at the election that was equal in terms of gender.

It’s worth remembering our history. Since women gained the right to stand as candidates in Westminster elections, and since the first female Member of Parliament—the Sinn Féin Member, Constance Markievicz— was elected in 1918, only 693 female Members of Parliament have ever been elected—just enough to fill the green benches once over, in over a century. There is a long way to go.

And of course, the result of the recent election was a Labour Government with a large majority—a majority that should make its task of fostering fairness and enlightenment from the ashes of the Conservatives’ social and economic chaos easier to achieve in political terms. The people of Wales certainly deserve better care and attention from Westminster, and this earlier-than-expected change could have led to Keir Starmer supporting our Government by giving it the ability to deliver gender quotas, beyond any doubt, by giving it the power over matters that are currently claimed by some to be outwith the Senedd’s competence.

It’s disappointing that the Labour Party, a party that has been in the vanguard in seeking to increase the number of female elected Members in the past, is unwilling, therefore, to give its practical support to the sister Government in Wales, by making these changes in time for our next Senedd elections under a reformed system in 2026. The pandemic showed that it’s possible to change regulations and pass legislation in a matter of days, where necessary. Why weren't these conversations being had before the election? Why isn't this a priority for the Westminster Government, given that they have demonstrated their record on being progressive on these issues?

The Government aims to publish guidance for the parties to improve gender equality and diversity for the 2026 election. Although this is a step in the right direction, and will keep us going until 2030, while guidance on a number of a policy areas can indicate an objective, all too often, it also allows failure, tolerates apathy and encourages a lack of accountability. Onwards to Canaan, then. I hope that we will not see further slippage on the journey, or turning back, before we achieve the promise of a Senedd that is truly reformed and can call itself a Senedd—the Welsh Parliament—in the true meaning and legitimacy of the name.

I used to believe in meritocracy—the right person for the right job, no matter what your gender or background—but there is unconscious bias, and I've come across that time and time again through my political career of over 20 years, as a councillor, cabinet Member for streets and highways, often the only woman there, and people talking across me as well. 

I believe that there are 130 countries that have introduced gender quotas now, and we've been talking to other Commonwealth countries recently about what they're doing, their interests, and what we're doing too. It's really useful to have those conversations. I was talking recently to one person from Quebec. She's got a young family, and they make sure she has an apartment, because she needs to sometimes bring her children down with her. They also have a crèche there as well. These are all things we need to consider. 

I attended an event organised by the Girlguiding association for International Women's Day. They've been working with girls from years 7 to 9—young teenage girls. They were discussing barriers they've faced, using their voice, and how they can build their confidence. I was shocked about how young girls, who you think might be confident now, growing up confident in a different era, were inhibited as well. A few points were highlighted, such as boys talking over them in classrooms, and I can relate to that. Sometimes I have to say to people, 'I can speak for myself, thank you very much', as Delyth knows. They often have no space to contribute or share their ideas and wants. And they said, 'No-one listens to the girls if boys are talking.' People think that the boys are more important.

Women may often have a softer voice, like I do, but they are good at detail; they remember things. They're good at juggling lots of things—childcare, households, work, fitting all these things in. We are all different, but women represent half the population, and we really need to look at gender balance going forward. Thank you.

Despite the efforts of some to pour cold water over this important Bill, I do think that today is a historic day, a day for celebration, because, first of all, the Reform Bill Committee does recommend that the Senedd does agree to the general principles of the Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill, and, secondly, that the Member in charge welcomes the recommendation to agree on those principles on behalf of the Welsh Government. So, I encourage everyone, from all parties, to enable this Bill to continue on its journey through the Senedd by agreeing to the general principles today.

The evidence is robust. It's only by putting a statutory mechanism, as is outlined in the Bill, that will we create a Senedd that is truly representative and therefore truly effective as a legislature. Read the evidence. The cross-party group on women heard presentation after presentation from international experts on the importance of quotas in order to create and maintain—to create and maintain—gender equality, and we also heard how having a balance in terms of gender where decisions are made leads to better decision making for the whole population, including the half who are female. 

We give great emphasis in this Senedd on listening to the lived experiences of people, and Carolyn has just outlined some of those lived experiences. This time, it's us, the women in the Chamber, who have that lived experience. We, the women, who find ourselves sometimes as the only woman around the table, and it's us who have suffered as a result of that. It is us who suffer unconscious bias, and we are ignored and derided. And it's us, the women, who know how getting gender balance does support us to be more confident in our actions and our approaches. It's us, the women, who know how gender balance supports our efforts to make the world a more equal place for women and girls in the future. So, listen to our experiences, and why not progress and proceed together on the journey with this legislation?

It is disappointing that you, as a Government, don't intend for this change to come into force until 2030. If the political will existed in London, in the corridors of power of the new Government, I am convinced that it would be possible to include the quotas as a key part of reform in 2026. And I would like an assurance today that the Labour Party, both here and in London, will find ways of removing any legal barriers. The 109 Order in Council is a realistic approach that is entirely possible, and with the right political will could be delivered by 2026. Without quotas, the current reform package is unfinished and incomplete, and I am truly concerned that we will find ourselves with a Senedd that is larger, but even less representative than it has been in previous years. 

There are issues for consider, yes, but we are today discussing the general principles, and I am delighted that we have reached this point today. It has taken some of us a lifetime's work to reach the point that we have reached today, and we should celebrate that. Thank you, Trefnydd, for your perseverance despite all frustrations. Thank you. 

It is very difficult to argue that the voluntary system to deliver gender balance has worked to date. If I remember rightly, there were no women in the Conservative group in 1999.

I, like the Chair of the Reform Bill Committee, was disappointed that the Government rejected the committee's recommendation to extend the offence of corrupt conduct to include false statements of gender. Depending on reputational damage is insufficient. By the same token, I believe the use of the word 'may', rather than 'must', in section 71 is a very weak point in the Bill. This could lead to party lists being accepted without them conforming to rules on quotas. The result, therefore, would be a Bill without force. And without an adequate enforcement method to penalise parties for not adhering to the law, we could find ourselves facing similar results to those seen in Algeria and Ivory Coast, which have gender quotas, but because of a lack of enforcement, they have particularly poor levels of representation by women in their politics.

The final point I would like to make relates to competence and this Bill. The implementation of quotas as a general principle should not be a matter for discussion. For me, there's no issue in that. The quotas appear to fall fairly clearly within electoral law. But once gender is involved, that's what makes the issue more complex. As the Llywydd has explained to us in correspondence, it seems fairly likely that this legislation touches on a reserved matter, namely equalities. But I think there's a simple solution, as Adam Price, Heledd Fychan and Siân Gwenllian have already said: we now need to devolve specific aspects of equality law to Wales. This would not only strengthen the competency of this Bill, but also assist with other work on equality, such as banning conversion therapy and working towards an anti-racist Wales.

So, I ask the Government to continue its conversations with the new Labour Government in Westminster to ensure the devolution of equalities law to Wales as soon as possible. Thank you very much.

The Trefnydd now to reply to the debate.

Thank you, Llywydd, and thank you all this afternoon.

It has been a really important debate. Thank you to everyone who has contributed. I do want to start just by thanking Siân Gwenllian for acknowledging that this is a historic day. It is a historic day, a day of celebration, and we will move forward, we hope, with support for the general principles of this Bill. But it is a time for us to listen, and I think particularly effective was the contribution by Carolyn Thomas about her—. It's about lived experience, but it's about your experience, and, of course, for the women in this Chamber, we could all stand up and also give our experiences of what it is like to be a woman in politics.

As we move forward to those 96, this is a key part of Senedd reform, those 96 Members. Those 96 Members have to be representative of the people of Wales. Women are an under-represented majority in Wales, making up 51 per cent of the population but just 43 per cent of MSs and only 31 per cent of candidates at the last Senedd election were women. Some of us had the great privilege—two or three of us here, perhaps more—of that wonderful time when we were 50:50—Llywydd, you were there—and we achieved that through positive action. It doesn't happen through the normal ways in which people get selected, I'm afraid, by political parties, unless there is positive action. And we are taking this forward to put this in statute, so it cannot be as a result just of voluntary action, and the whim of any political party.

So, it is important that we recognise that, in 2003, we were the first legislature with 50 per cent of women, but the figure, as I've said, has slipped, and we want and need to build that back up. There's no room for complacency when it comes to ensuring that the Senedd is broadly reflective of the gender make-up of the population.

I did produce—. I won't be able to go through all of the responses in terms of the recommendations that came forward and have been discussed this afternoon, but I do hope you will look again at the responses to the reports that I produced on 10 July, because it was very important that I got that out early, and I hope that everyone will take note of the full detail of my response to recommendations. 

I'm just going to start on the legal competence issue that has been raised not just by the Legislative, Justice and Constitution Committee—and I thank the Chair for his contribution—but also the Reform Bill Committee. It's good to see the Chair here in the Chamber as well. Just to remind everyone, and I said this in evidence to the committees: the Bill's been through the usual processes and checks within the Welsh Government. We stated in the explanatory memorandum and during scrutiny, and as I said in opening this debate, I'm of the view that the Bill is within the legislative competence of the Senedd. And it is, as I said, part of that package of reforms, including the Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Act, as it is now, 2024. We have to make the Senedd more effective for and on behalf of the people of Wales. 

The Bill's purpose is a more effective Senedd. I don't consider that it's another purpose of equal opportunities. I don't consider that the Bill breaches the restriction on modifying the law on reserved matters, specifically section 104 of the Equality Act 2010. We have published an equality and human rights impact assessment, and I consider the Bill is compatible with convention rights and that any interference with such rights is objectively justified. 

As I very clearly laid out in my evidence, I recognise that the Llywydd has reached a different view, and we have seen a range of views—that's been acknowledged—on the issue of legislative competence in evidence to the Reform Bill Committee. And I respect all the legal opinions that have been given, but remain of the view that the Bill is within the legislative competence of the Senedd. 

So, now we are voting on general principles of the Bill, and that's the recommendation of the Reform Bill Committee, and I have responded to all 47 recommendations. But we must remember that history again. The Welsh Government is delivering on the recommendations made by the Special Purpose Committee on Senedd Reform, which was subsequently endorsed by a majority of Members in June 2022.

Will you take a brief intervention? I'm very grateful. You say that the Welsh Government is delivering on the agreement in the Senedd reform committee's report that was endorsed by this Senedd, but, of course, it wasn't endorsed by this Senedd. This system was not endorsed. The system that was endorsed was the proposed system, agreed by the former leader of your party and the leader of Plaid Cymru, which was a genuine gender-zipped list, not a list that could be up to 100 per cent women but only up to a maximum of 50 per cent men. Do you accept that this is not what was previously agreed? And if you do, why are you pursuing such a different policy now?

I brought forward a Bill, and I was very proud to be the Member in charge of the Bill, and as I've said, and I'll repeat again: the purpose of this Bill is a more effective Senedd, which is sought to be achieved through greater gender balance. And we came to a view, in terms of how that would be reflected in the Bill, and in terms of just recognising that the Bill is important in terms of the candidate statement, which is the way we felt that we should take this forward. And I think it is very important that this was scrutinised very carefully by the committees. I think it's very interesting that—

Will you take an intervention, Minister? I apologise for asking so many—

I haven't finished responding to your intervention.

Pardon me. Just on the scrutiny committee issue.

I think it's really important that we look at this in terms of the evidence that went to the Reform Bill Committee, of operated voluntary quotas in the past, and it is based on the evidence about what the best way forward in handling this is, and also looking at what other countries—. Ireland, for example, operates a gender-quota system, and we've very much seen what they have done in terms of delivering on this. So, I see no—. The fact is that the way we've taken this Bill forward, I think, has been accepted, and not just through the evidence, but also that the powers that we have chosen to use in terms of the Bill—it doesn't have a definition of a woman, it's not about defining a woman, it's not about gender recognition, and it is—. I've stated in my views that this is the way that we should take this forward, in the terms and the purpose of this Bill, but I wish to move on, Llywydd, because I want to answer many of the other questions that have been put.

And I think the next question, of course, has been—and it's been raised by Members here today—about why we can't do this, the timing that Heledd Fychan, Sioned and others have mentioned. Well, both the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee and the Reform Bill Committee did raise concerns about the risk of legal challenge, if it would disrupt the conduct or outcome of the 2026 Senedd election, and any legal challenge could rise to uncertainty, as the law governing the election, until that challenge is resolved. So, we've taken the steps to mitigate the risks, to protect the integrity of the 2026 Senedd election, as I said. We felt that we should now schedule it for the 2030 Senedd election. But can I assure our colleagues today that we are—and I said in response to Adam Price—already engaging with the UK Government, we are already looking at the section 109 route. But we've got to recognise that section 109 is not a straightforward process; you have to go through both Houses of Parliament and the Senedd—[Interruption.]—in order to make that a reality. 

Just on this very specific legal point, isn't it true that that risk applies to everything, every clause of every Bill? In theory, there's the possibility of a challenge, because there are certain things, you know, human rights et cetera, which only the Supreme Court can give a definitive view on. But if we took the view that we couldn't do something, we couldn't legislate on anything, because there is, potentially, theoretically, a risk of challenge, we wouldn't produce any legislation. There is no greater risk, if a section 109 Order in Council happens—there's no greater risk, then, to this Bill, under those circumstances, than any other thing that we've legislated on in the history of devolution.

Well, I mean, I hope what's going to come out of this debate today is approval of the general principles, recognising that I've said we've got a credible legal case, although the challenge to the legal competence is the risk, isn't it, in terms of the timing, not just in terms of us moving to follow the section 109 route, but also the fact that that in itself still could lead to a legal challenge. I'm afraid I'm running out of time rapidly, Llywydd, and I beg you to give your indulgence, because this is a really important Bill that we’re considering. But what we need out of this debate today is your backing and confidence that we are seeking to put the gender quotas into statute here in Wales. It is groundbreaking: no-one else is doing it in the UK; 130 countries are doing it elsewhere. Let’s get the backing today for us to start that process and get through those barriers.

Now, I recognise that I haven’t answered all the questions that the Chair of the committee raised, particularly, I think, about vacancies. I do think that it’s important that we’re implementing the recommendations of the special purpose committee and its predecessors about having a candidate quota, and those have rules applying only in respect of placement of a proportion of women in respect of the list. So, I think it’s really important. Why I have rejected your recommendation is that it wouldn’t necessarily further the Bill’s purpose of a more effective Senedd if there was withdrawal, because the provisions in the Bill, I think, offer such a good chance of returning a gender-balanced Senedd, but it can’t be guaranteed, and there still could be an imbalance, with women still in the minority, and the recommendation that you made could result in the gender imbalance being perpetuated; for example, an outgoing man could be replaced by a man. So, that’s why we’re not accepting that recommendation.

But we do want to, very clearly—. We’re working with the Jo Cox Foundation, addressing the issue about intimidation and bullying and helping to counter harassment and abuse in politics, and I think that’s something that the measures within the Elections and Elected Bodies (Wales) Bill will help us with. Can I finally say, in terms of that Bill, of course, that this does help us move forward in a voluntary way to look at the whole issue about diversity and inclusion—strategies that all political parties are going to have to adopt? It is in statute that there will be guidance, and then we would expect political parties to take that forward and to accept that.

So, can I just say finally that all of the key points about why we need this Bill have been made by the Members today? I think we could spend a lot more time on the debate. But this is now moving us forward to the next stage; you know the Bill timetable was approved at Business Committee. Can I just say that, look, we know we’re not gender balanced, we haven’t got enough women in this Senedd? We’ve got committees with no women on them—can that be right? Every political party has got to look to themselves and say, ‘In our way forward with Senedd reform, do we want to have a gender-balanced Parliament, a diverse Parliament, in 2026 and 2030, which will be in statute?’, and this Bill will help lead us to that point. Diolch.

The proposal is to agree the motion under item 7. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there is objection. We will therefore defer voting under that item until voting time, and, likewise, the proposal under item 8, we will also defer voting until voting time.

Item 9 is next, the Local Government Finance (Wales) Bill, signification of His Majesty’s consent, from the Cabinet Secretary for finance. Rebecca Evans.

Diolch. I have it in command from His Majesty the King to acquaint the Senedd that His Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the Local Government Finance (Wales) Bill, has given his consent to this Bill.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

That allows us to move on to item 10, Stage 4 of the Local Government Finance (Wales) Bill, and the Cabinet Secretary to move the item. Rebecca Evans. 

Diolch, Llywydd. I'd like to begin by putting on record my thanks to all of those who have played a part in the development and the passage of the Bill through the Senedd. The scrutiny process for the Bill has been rigorous and challenging, as of course it should be. I thank the committee Chairs, members and support staff for their careful and considered approach, and for their constructive recommendations at Stage 1, including in relation to providing guidance and support to those who’ll be affected by the changes this Bill will introduce, both for delivery partners and taxpayers in Wales. The Government will continue to engage with committees in a meaningful way in the coming months and years as we develop the necessary subordinate legislation, and we'll review the impact that this legislation is having before the end of the next Senedd as part of my commitment at Stage 1.

I previously acknowledged the crucial role that Plaid Cymru Members played in the development of this legislation. It's worth recognising today that, even on matters where, ultimately, we were unable to reach collective agreement, our discussions have been conducted in a constructive and respectful manner throughout, and I know that there is much in this Bill that both parties can be proud of.

My thanks also to Peter Fox, who has represented the Welsh Conservatives diligently throughout Stages 2 and 3. I've appreciated his willingness to seek compromise on matters where he brings his own experience of leading Monmouthshire council, and I note his party’s pragmatic approach to this Bill at key points in the process.

I extend a sincere thank you to all of our stakeholders and partners—those who responded to our various consultations, those who contributed evidence to committees, and those who shared their expertise throughout the scrutiny process. We will continue to count on that support and that experience in the coming months as we get to work on implementing the legislation. And there is much to be done. There is subordinate legislation to be made, guidance to be developed, new processes, systems, training and support to rolled out. Our local authority partners, the Valuation Office Agency and the Valuation Tribunal for Wales will all have a crucial role to play in making a success of this new legislative framework, and I look forward to their continued support on that journey. I'd also like to put on record my huge thanks to our Welsh Government officials for their commitment, their creativity and their work of the highest quality. This Bill delivers important changes to both council tax and non-domestic rates, and provides real opportunities to make further, meaningful changes to the local taxation system in Wales.

On council tax, we will continue to strive to make it fairer and more progressive, easier to navigate and simpler to administer. The levers in this Bill will create those opportunities. On non-domestic rates, this Bill delivers more frequent revaluations—a vital change at the heart of our extensive reform programme. It also provides the levers required to maintain a fair and responsive system that can be adapted to changing circumstances and priorities. Llywydd, I commend this Bill to the Senedd.

I also would like to thank everyone today who has worked on this legislation, and I know there has been a great deal of work over many months. I want to thank the Bill team in particular for their support, but also the Cabinet Secretary for her engagement. It has been great to be able to work together so collegiately, even if we have a different opinion on how we might get to the different places. And also thank you to Peredur Owen Griffiths for his constructive engagement throughout. It's very welcome when we can all work together, as we have.

I welcome some elements of the Bill, including the ability to set the split multiplier for business rates in Wales—something we and the business community have been calling for for years, and it's great that that flexibility is coming forward. However, our group retains some reservations about a number of issues and the application of the powers that his Bill provides. That said, aspects of the Bill are necessary to provide more discretion surrounding both council tax and business rates in Wales.

We still remain concerned, though, about the ability for councils to disapply the 25 per cent single person discount. Whilst the Cabinet Secretary has given her reassurance that this discount won't change, the fact is, as currently drafted, councils, under some circumstances, could disapply this discount, which is unacceptable to us.

I am very glad that the Welsh Conservative amendment compelling local councils to continue to publish notices of council tax changes passed, ensuring our elderly population continues to have easy access to such important information and, through this, giving reassurances to many local newspapers. I very much thank the Cabinet Secretary for her support and actions around this issue.

I'm disappointed that our amendment regarding referendums where the council tax increases exceed 5 per cent was rejected. Whilst I recognise that there would be implications to councils should this have been brought forward, it's worth noting that this has rarely been used across the border. Clearly, then, having the requirement in place focuses councils' minds ahead of considering significant council tax increases. Let's not forget that a 5 per cent increase is a large increase in itself. This would have empowered local people to hold their councils to account, and I remain concerned that, if the local government settlement is cut further by the Government here, without the checks and balances provided by local referendums, councils may resort too easily to increasing council tax as a 'get out of jail' card. I know this amendment fell, but I will continue to hold the Government to account when it comes to this issue.

Llywydd, despite my thanks to everybody, due to the underlying concerns we still have, we won't be able to support this legislation today. Sorry.

To begin with, I'd like to thank all the Senedd clerks and the lawyers who've worked diligently through the passage of this Bill, and I'd also like to thank the Cabinet Secretary and Peter Fox for their constructive engagement at each stage. As I've mentioned many times before in this Chamber, the case for reforming the state of local government finances has been apparent for some time. While we continue to believe that the Bill does not go far enough in certain areas, we do nevertheless consider it to be a positive step forward in creating a more sustainable fiscal framework for our local authorities, and we will therefore be supporting its passage today. We welcome the measures to enable more frequent revaluation cycles for the purposes of both non-domestic rates and council tax, instilling a greater degree of fairness in how they are levied. We also believe that providing Welsh Ministers with the ability to vary NDR reliefs and set tailored multipliers is sensible, and we would urge the Government to be proactive in utilising these powers, particularly as a means to support our vital small and medium-sized enterprise sector. However, it is regrettable that this Bill, as positive as it is in many areas, only makes baby steps in the right direction, rather than purposeful, progressive strides where we desperately need them. The fact that the new model of council tax revaluation is not accompanied by a comprehensive reform of the system itself, which has now been postponed until 2028 at the very earliest, will perpetuate its unfair and disproportionate burden on lower income households for the foreseeable future.

Council tax reform is a cause that is very close to my heart. The impact that the current system has in exacerbating cost-of-living pressures and societal inequalities is particularly stark across my electoral region. I represent two areas, Merthyr and Blaenau Gwent, where the council tax is the highest. These two local authorities also have some of the most deprived communities in Wales. That is deeply unjust. If the Government is truly serious about creating a fairer system, I hope they will use the additional time they have created for themselves wisely, rather than leaving this vital programme of work to simply gather dust. On this basis, can the Cabinet Secretary commit to providing regular updates to the Senedd on the progress of the council tax reform programme against their revised time frame? While we had initially hoped to deliver this reform by April 2025, through our co-operation agreement, we remain open to working collaboratively with the Government to ensure it does come into force as soon as possible. It is imperative, therefore, that the passage of this Bill today is the start of a longer journey towards placing local government finances on a fairer and more sustainable footing. Diolch yn fawr.

The Cabinet Secretary for finance to reply.

Diolch. In closing, I'd like to thank Members and partners once again for their co-operation and input. This is the first local government finance Bill that we've had in Wales since devolution, and I know that many of us are very, very excited about that, and it is a really significant piece of legislation too. It's one that will pave the way for fairer and more responsive non-domestic rates and council tax arrangements in Wales, and I'm very happy to provide that confirmation that I will be providing updates to the Senedd on both our NDR reform programme and our council tax programme as we move forward.

The Bill today will enable the provision of support to businesses and individuals to be given in a more timely and more precise way. It will allow for the avoidance arrangements to be targeted more quickly and ensure that the tax burden, which impacts on almost all businesses and citizens in Wales, is shared more equitably. So, Llywydd, I would urge all Members to support this Bill.

In accordance with Standing Order 26.50C, a recorded vote must be taken on Stage 4 motions, so I defer voting on this motion until voting time. 

Item 11 is next, a debate on the Welsh Government's annual report—delivering the Government's priorities and legislative programme. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Constitution and Cabinet Office to move the motion. Rebecca Evans.

Last week, the third annual report of this Senedd term was published, setting out the progress that we continue to make towards the delivery of our programme for government. It has once again been a year full of challenges and difficult choices. We have continued to face prolonged economic and budgetary pressures in an unprecedented cost-of-living crisis. These financial pressures have been exacerbated by the ongoing war in Ukraine, and we still live with the devastating consequences of the Truss budget that piled additional pressure on both households' and public services' budgets. Yet again, Wales was chronically undervalued and underfunded by the Tories. On a like-for-like basis, our 2023-24 settlement was worth up to £700 million less in real terms. All this has had direct and unavoidable consequences for delivery. In that context, we are immensely proud of what we have delivered in the third year of this Senedd, and I remain committed to doing everything that we can to support and deliver for the people of Wales. 

I would like to take this opportunity to recognise the immense contribution Mark Drakeford made as First Minister during the period covered by this annual report and throughout his tenure as First Minister. I'd also like to thank Plaid Cymru for the work that we undertook together as part of our co-operation agreement, and we achieved a great deal for the people of Wales. We are a Government that looks to work with others in order to achieve better outcomes for more people. We look forward to working closely with the new UK Labour Government in Westminster as genuine partners, moving forward guided by our shared ambitions. 

Putting the people and the communities of Wales first has been the priority of every Welsh Labour Government since devolution began, and it always will be. I am proud of what we have delivered in the third year of our programme for government, despite all the challenges and the obstacles that we have faced. We have invested an additional £425 million in the Welsh NHS, and we continue to make steady progress on our key priority of reducing waiting times. Our cancer performance has also hit its highest level for two years, and we will continue to prioritise this key area for the remainder of this Senedd term. We believe in a publicly funded NHS, with a public sector workforce, and we have continued our investment in the NHS. We've delivered in the workforce, delivering both short-term and longer term solutions to the challenges that we face. 

Our agreement with the Government of Kerala in March 2024 provided an additional 250 healthcare professionals to immediately bolster our NHS. Closer to home, our new medical school in north Wales will support the workforce of years to come. We will welcome the first intake of students to Bangor this September. We have implemented a range of radical changes to primary care, including reforming NHS dentists' contracts, enabling 140,000 new patients to receive a full course of dental treatment, and reducing the 8 a.m. bottleneck at GP practices. We're also providing more services where they're most needed, in our high-street opticians and community pharmacies, through the common ailments scheme. 

Of course, it goes without saying that this Government remains absolutely committed to maintaining the Welsh NHS as free at the point of need. As Nye Bevan said in 1948, 

'no society can legitimately call itself civilised if a sick person is denied medical aid because of lack of means.'

This Government also recognises the fundamental importance of a child's first 1,000 days to their long-term life outcomes. We will continue to ensure that every child in Wales has access to the best opportunities to succeed, regardless of where they live, their background or their circumstances. I am proud that we have offered over 6,900 additional places to parents through Flying Start. This means more two-year-olds across the country than ever before can receive the support to help them thrive and grow. We continued the phased expansion of early years provision, providing more families with free childcare, with an extra 4,500 childcare places offered during 2023-24. One hundred and fifty-four thousand additional learners became eligible for universal free school meals by March 2024, and provision has now been fully rolled out in 19 of our 22 authorities, well in advance of our September 2024 target, with the remaining three authorities also well on track.

We’ve all had to live with the chaos caused by the economic mistakes and the mismanagement of successive UK Tory Governments. This Government will always prioritise Welsh workers and businesses and work to support a stronger futureproofed Welsh economy to deliver greener jobs and fair work. We supported the US semiconductor equipment manufacturer KLA to bring its new headquarters and equipment research and development centre to Wales, which will employ around 750 people when complete. Our flagship young person's guarantee continues to upskill and support young people under the age of 25, with over 30,000 people enrolling in skills programmes. We’ve also delivered 51,000 all-age apprenticeships since May 2021.

The climate emergency poses a serious and imminent threat to our nation and this is why the Welsh Government embeds our response to climate change in everything that we do. We have invested £100 million into local transport improvements, which will encourage more sustainable, low-carbon forms of travel, and we’ve supported projects that will harness the power of our tides. I’m also immensely proud that Wales continues to be a leading nation in recycling. This year, we ranked second in the world for municipal recycling and we continue to innovate, leading the way with the world’s first trial of a digital deposit-return scheme for plastic bottles and drinks cans.

We want Wales to be a welcoming place, one which everybody can feel proud to call home, and where everyone can feel safe and valued. We want Wales to always be a country where everyone knows that they’re welcome and they’re valued and that they belong, and that is why we have worked tirelessly to deliver the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan'. In December, we highlighted some of its achievements, including the launch of a culture grant scheme for grass-roots organisations empowering black, Asian and minority ethnic communities. We also provided £390,000 of funding to the Wales Hate Support Centre, ensuring that all victims have access to tailored support and advocacy in the face of hate crimes. Along with making people feel valued and safe in Wales, we have provided £210 million of funding to provide over 17,500 people with temporary accommodation to prevent and support those facing homelessness.

We reflected on some of the legislative achievements of this Government in the First Minister’s statement last week. The Bills we’ve brought forward in the third year of the legislative programme will make positive changes for democracy in Wales and include the Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Act and the Elections and Elected Bodies (Wales) Bill, which Members agreed at Stage 4 last week. We’ve also brought forward Bills crucial for the long-term future of Wales. The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) Act 2024 will help tackle the climate emergency and the Infrastructure (Wales) Act 2024 will play a key role in delivering our renewable energy targets, simplifying the consenting process for major infrastructure projects in Wales, while the Health Service Procurement (Wales) Act 2024 will deliver a new regime for the procurement of NHS services to meet the needs of this important sector.

I hope this afternoon I have managed to convey just some of the many achievements of this Welsh Government in the last year. It highlights what is possible for Wales to achieve, despite a financial and economic maelstrom engineered by a hapless and out-of-touch Westminster Government. For the first time in almost a generation, there is now an opportunity to work closely with a UK Government that shares our values and our ideals. Fourteen years of Tory chaos have left their mark on all of us, and the challenges that we face will endure, but I believe that we can overcome them.

Our priority as a Government is to continue to focus on what matters most to our communities and to work in partnership with those who share our vision of a brighter future. And I believe that we can look to that future with fresh optimism to deliver a greener, kinder and fairer Wales.

Sam Rowlands to move amendment 1.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I move the amendments tabled in the name of my colleague Darren Millar in front of us today, and thank Rebecca Evans—

Sorry, Sam. Amendment 2.

I thought it was, Deputy Presiding Officer. I didn't want to doubt you for a moment there, but thank you.

Always question me. [Laughter.]

I move amendment 2 in the name of my colleague Darren Millar and thank Rebecca Evans for standing in place of the First Minister today, to speak to the report in front of us. It's quite a day to be discussing the Welsh Government's priorities. Unfortunately, Welsh Labour's most recent priority seems to have been back-stabbing and in-fighting instead of delivering for the people of Wales. This annual report, whilst highlighting the seemingly many good things that are happening across Wales, unfortunately seeks to gloss over and ignore many of the issues that the people of Wales face as a result of a tired Welsh Government who have been in power for far too long. We have to hope that 2026 brings change, because the people of Wales desperately need that change.

They face the highest NHS waiting times on record and the lowest pay packets in the UK. They face the worst education outcomes and sky-high ambulance waits. When we look at these significant metrics, it's clear that Wales is being held back by a Cardiff Labour Government. Any Government worth its salt will do all it can to reverse those woeful statistics, whereas health, education, the economy, transport, rural affairs—the list goes on of policy areas that have been ignored because Labour Ministers are too focused on themselves and their psychodrama here.

Whilst I always acknowledge the incredible efforts made by so many in our health service, as the shadow health Minister, I'm far too regularly contacted by residents, health workers, charities and other organisations about the poor experience that too many people that we represent are facing. Sick people are languishing on waiting lists or waiting an age for an ambulance after they suffer a terrible fall. Doctors, nurses and others are operating in crumbling hospitals, and don't get the funding they need to deliver for patients. It's a laser-like focus on these issues that should be the priority of this Welsh Government.

Indeed, the Minister talked about giving children the best possible chance in her opening remarks, but, sadly, they're taking decisions that make the chances of children even worse, especially when we look at education. The Institute for Fiscal Studies' research shows the performance of disadvantaged children in England is actually either above or similar to the average for all children in Wales. So, if you're a disadvantaged child in England, you're probably going to do better than an average child here in Wales. This is directly thanks to the mismanagement from Labour here in Cardiff Bay, including chronic underfunding and a poor implementation of an experimental curriculum that refuses to place a priority on academic rigour.

So, not only are children here being failed, but Labour have presided over a historic brain drain. There are so many talented Welsh individuals, but many young people feel they have no choice but to leave the country. That is intolerable and needs to change. When you look at the economy, it's not difficult to see why this brain drain is happening. The Welsh Government presided over the highest economic inactivity rates in the United Kingdom and the smallest pay packets. Along with the highest business rates in Britain, this Government has stymied the potential of the Welsh people and is holding our country back.

Now, maybe a new First Minister—perhaps Rebecca Evans, who is standing in his place here today—will change direction, but, sadly, I doubt it, because everyone in the Labour group has supported this failed orthodoxy that has held the people of Wales back for far too long. They are all responsible. So, I call on all Senedd Members to back our motion today, which will start the process of rejuvenating Wales's public services and give Wales the leadership it deserves. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

I apologise for the wrong order.

I call on Rhun ap Iorwerth to move amendment 1.

I forgive the Deputy Presiding Officer. I welcome the opportunity to respond to this annual report. I will start positively, on a day when that can perhaps feel difficult, and say that there are several positives in this annual report, and that's thanks to the legacy of the co-operation agreement with Plaid Cymru. We welcome the around £60 million allocated to provide free school meals, for example, to every primary pupil in Wales, and the fact that the first cohort of students will start to study at the medical school in north Wales in September—another of the visions of Plaid Cymru that, after years of campaigning, captured the imagination of the Government.

But, on the whole, I regret, once again, the opportunities that have been missed, and this Goverment is one that is now linked with what hasn't been delivered, rather than what it is delivering. And, with waiting lists in the NHS amongst the longest in the UK, a decline in education standards, a third of children living in poverty, it would be fair to expect the Labour Government to be determined to focus entirely on facing up to those challenges. But, unfortunately, it demonstrates a lack of seriousness in tackling those problems in our public services and, as a result, a lack of respect for the expectations of the people of Wales who elected the Government to deliver for them.

Here's a quote from the annual report, which tells you a lot about what the Government hopes to achieve:

'we will use less resource intensive ways to share our plans and progress so we can relentlessly focus on practical delivery'.

It's a pretty revealing sentence, I think, actually, which shows that this Government isn't showing the seriousness that we should expect when it comes to measuring and monitoring performance with any real rigour, and that's what we refer to in our amendment today. You can't expect, I guess, a nine-page document to tell the whole story of an administration's last 12 months, but I do detect a degree of cynicism in the selective approach taken to what has been excluded from and not just included in this annual report, and nowhere is this more evident, I must say, than the use of one selective statistic to give the impression that it's on top of the record-high waiting lists, when all the evidence points otherwise.

To turn to the Government's priorities for the coming months and years, this idea of a managed decline has defined the attitude of Welsh Governments for far too long, I think, and there is precious little in the programme for government announced last week to suggest that that is about to change. Following the extremely disappointing decision to postpone the review of council tax until 2028, thousands of households will continue to be penalised by an unfair system for at least another four years. We don't need to wait for legislation to pursue several measures that would benefit the economy and public services of Wales.

For the first time in 14 years, after all, this Labour Government—as uncertain as the Government is at this point in time—is in the position of having what they have wanted and what they consider to be a friendly Government in Westminster. And the First Minister, before he steps down formally, should pick up the phone time and time again, if needed, to Sir Keir Starmer to emphasise the way that a fair proportion of HS2 funding could transform the rail network of Wales. I call on him, too, to make the case for abolishing the Barnett formula, which is long since dated, to ensure that our nation is funded on the basis of need rather than population. Plaid Cymru MPs are tabling an amendment to the King's Speech to demand that fundamental change to the way in which Wales is funded. And I encourage the First Minister, after spending months boasting about the benefits that Wales would enjoy with a Labour Government at both ends of the M4, to demand the powers over the Crown Estate and over justice and policing, which have been in the hands of the Scottish Government for years now. We need a Government that campaigns for Wales, not one that bends to the new regime, time and time again, in Westminster.

And to conclude, despite his personal challenges in his post and the announcement today, if the First Minister were to be successful in convincing Sir Keir Starmer on these points in his last months in the post, I would be the first to admit that he left with a positive legacy.

The foreword to this report states that the Government's agenda, what's left of it, at least, has an unstinting focus on delivery. This is a laudable ambition, but that delivery must be based on tangible outcomes, not an open-ended process alone. We need a clear destination for the journey, with the stages clearly set out, rather than the current system of allowing the journey to be entirely directionless. Unfortunately, this report shows a complete lack of direction, particularly over recent months, where the Government has hardly survived, and has focused on internal difficulties rather than on delivery for the people of Wales. So many of the successes listed when it comes to health are nothing more than descriptions of the Government's actions, rather than outcomes.

For example, the report references the fact that the 111 service for urgent mental health is now being used by 80,000 people, but makes no mention of how this is being translated into improved mental health outcomes for the users. Similarly, the Help us Help you scheme is framed in terms of its coverage, rather than its impact on reducing pressures on emergency departments. Volume of usage for services, while important, is not, in and of itself, a measure of success. The fact that the Government has been unable to clearly articulate where and how its programme is making a difference speaks volumes in this regard.

The report’s highly selective appraisal of the current performance of the NHS in Wales also underlines a worrying aversion on the part of this Government to being up front about the scale of the problems facing our health service. For example, the section on two-year waits is based on a very specific time frame and belies the fact that two-year waits for treatment are actually on the rise once more. Not to mention the fact that the Government’s own target for eliminating such waits entirely was missed almost a year and a half ago.

Meanwhile, the praise of cancer performance rings rather hollow when you consider that almost half of cancer patients in Wales do not receive the treatment that they need in time. Furthermore, the recruitment of 250 healthcare professionals from Kerala is a drop in the ocean compared to the glaring gaps across the workforce, particularly in areas such as nursing, GP services and oncology. Indeed, the fact that the Government is having to draw on the personnel of health services outside of Wales reflects poorly on existing retention strategies.

Upon taking office earlier this month, the new UK health Minister used his very first statement to declare that the NHS in England is broken, and followed this up by commissioning the Darzi review into its performance. Even the most creative framing of the statistics would struggle to show that the NHS in Wales is in ruder health than its counterpart over the border, and, on several metrics, the situation here is far worse. So, will this Government show that it is serious about confronting the existential challenges to our health system by commissioning a comprehensive independent investigation of the NHS in Wales?

I now call on the Cabinet Secretary to reply to the debate.

Thank you, and I'm very grateful to colleagues for their contributions this afternoon, and very proud of the progress that we have made in delivering our programme for government and our legislative programme, despite the difficult financial circumstances. While I do welcome the acknowledgement from the leader of Plaid Cymru about the progress that we have made in a wide range of areas, we do oppose the first amendment from Plaid Cymru.

Our annual report is clearly structured around the 10 well-being objectives, and it does provide updates on the progress that we have made against our programme for government commitments. We also oppose the second amendment, from the Welsh Conservatives. The annual report directly highlights the progress that this Government has made in areas such as NHS performance, education outcomes and incomes across Wales, within the framework of the well-being objectives.

The third annual report of this Senedd term shows how this Government has continued to deliver against our well-being objectives, despite the ongoing challenges that we have faced. I am immensely proud of what this Government has achieved, and I’m positive and optimistic about what can be achieved moving forward. Last week’s statement set out our ambitious legislative programme for the coming year, and our annual report sets out the significant progress that we have made in the last year, and sets the tone for further delivery in coming years.

Over the course of this Senedd term, we are investing £1 billion to help the NHS recover from the pandemic and reduce the backlog. Reducing waiting times is a priority and a challenge. Thanks to the hard work and dedication of the NHS, long waits have fallen by 70 per cent since March 2022. But we still have more work to do.

Colleagues referred to cancer waiting times. While, in 2023, we saw a record number of new referrals for suspected cancer—more than 192,000—there was also a record number of people starting cancer treatment—that was more than 21,000, and this absolutely does remain a priority area for this Government.

On average every month, 11,000 people are accessing urgent primary care centres, but 85 per cent of those cases are being managed without the need to access an emergency department. More than 7,500 people access same-day emergency care services every month, and nearly 80 per cent of people are discharged home on the same day. There has been a reduction in the average length of hospital stay over the calendar year, from 8.5 days to 7 days. And, in 2023-24, the first formal year of reporting, pathways-of-care-delay numbers saw an approximate 5 per cent overall reduction. Awaiting reablement care packages has seen a significant reduction of 40.5 per cent in 2023-24, indicating improvement in capacity within community-based services. So, there is absolutely good progress being made in all of those important areas.

The Conservatives talk about PISA, but they know full well that these tests were taken when the effects of the pandemic were still being felt, and Wales is not alone in the situation—every single country saw a decline. And Members, I hope, would recognise that, before the pandemic, Wales was the only country in the UK to see improvements in all—literacy, numeracy and science. We recognise this improvement has been derailed, which is exactly why we've put in place a number of policies specifically to support improved standards in reading, writing and maths. Dirprwy Lywydd, we're committed to working with our partners to continue to deliver for the people and the communities of Wales.

The proposal is to agree amendment 1, tabled by Rhun ap Iorwerth. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there are objections. We will, therefore, defer voting under this item until voting time.

Unless three Members wish for the bell to be rung, we will move immediately to voting time. [Interruption.]

Okay, we will ring the bell. Five minutes.

The first vote this afternoon is on item 7. 

Dirprwy Lywydd, point of order. There's a Member in a car on the screen, it would appear. 

Darren—[Interruption.] Can I have some silence please? It's not expected that Members are actually on the move when voting and the guidance is that they should not be, but it's not prohibited, unfortunately. Therefore, on this occasion, we will accept it, but can I remind all Members, from whichever party, that in future you should not be in vehicles when undertaking voting? You should be within either your office, your home or somewhere else that is a fixed place. 

The first vote is on item 7, the general principles of the Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill, and I call for a vote on the motion tabled in the name of Jane Hutt. Open the vote. In favour 39, no abstentions, 14 against. Therefore, the motion is agreed. 

The next vote is on item 8, the financial resolution in respect of the Senedd Cymru Bill. I call for a vote on the motion. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 40, no abstentions, 14 against. Therefore, the motion is agreed.

The next vote is on item 10, Stage 4 of The Local Government Finance (Wales) Bill. I call for a vote on the motion tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 40, no abstentions, 14 against. Therefore, the motion is agreed.

The next vote is on item 11, the debate on the Welsh Government's annual report. I first call for a vote on amendment 1, tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan. Open the vote. Close the vote. The result of the vote is tied. Therefore, as required under Standing Order 6.20, I exercise my casting vote against the amendment. Therefore, there were in favour 27, no abstentions, 28 against, and therefore amendment 1 is not agreed.

I now call for a vote on amendment 2, tabled in the name of Darren Millar. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 26, no abstentions, 28 against, and therefore amendment 2 is not agreed.

I now call for a vote on the motion tabled in the name of Jane Hutt. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 28, no abstentions, 26 against, and therefore the motion is agreed.

That concludes today's proceedings. Thank you very much.