Y Cyfarfod Llawn - Y Bumed Senedd
Plenary - Fifth Senedd
23/10/2019Cynnwys
Contents
Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 13:30 gyda’r Llywydd (Elin Jones) yn y Gadair.
The Assembly met at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.
Galw'r Aelodau i drefn.
I call Members to order.
Yr eitem gyntaf ar ein hagenda ni y prynhawn yma yw'r cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Addysg, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Alun Davies.
The first item on our agenda this afternoon is questions to the Minister for Education, and the first question is from Alun Davies.
1. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i gefnogi darpariaeth iechyd meddwl mewn ysgolion? OAQ54591
1. What action is the Welsh Government taking to support mental health provision in schools? OAQ54591
Thank you, Alun. Today I launched the formal consultation on an updated draft of the school and community-based counselling operating toolkit. This is an integral part of our work to embed a whole-school approach to emotional well-being, led jointly by the Minister for health and myself.
Diolch, Alun. Heddiw, lansiais yr ymgynghoriad ffurfiol ar ddrafft wedi'i ddiweddaru o'r pecyn cymorth gweithredu cwnsela mewn ysgolion a chymunedau. Mae hyn yn rhan annatod o'n gwaith i ymgorffori dull ysgol gyfan o ymdrin â lles emosiynol, o dan arweiniad y Gweinidog iechyd a minnau ar y cyd.
I'm grateful to you for that, Minister. You will remember a few weeks ago, I was very grateful to you, spending time at my old school, of course, of Tredegar comprehensive. During that visit you spent some time talking with the school council, and you will remember that the thrust of their questions to you were on issues around well-being and mental health. And I thought the conversation you had with the school council was a very good, strong and powerful conversation, and they, I'm sure, will welcome the statement that you made earlier today. But how can you build on this and make a more holistic approach, create a more holistic approach, to ensuring that the mental health and well-being of young people and children in school continues to be a priority both for the schools and for this Government?
Rwy'n ddiolchgar i chi am hynny, Weinidog. Fe fyddwch yn cofio, ychydig wythnosau yn ôl, fy mod yn ddiolchgar iawn i chi am dreulio amser yn fy hen ysgol, sef Ysgol Gyfun Tredegar, wrth gwrs. Yn ystod yr ymweliad hwnnw, fe dreulioch chi beth amser yn siarad â chyngor yr ysgol, a byddwch yn cofio bod llawer o’u cwestiynau i chi yn ymwneud â materion iechyd meddwl a lles. Ac roeddwn yn credu bod y sgwrs a gawsoch gyda'r cyngor ysgol yn sgwrs dda, gref a phwerus iawn, a byddant hwythau, rwy'n siŵr, yn croesawu'r datganiad a wnaethoch yn gynharach heddiw. Ond sut y gallwch adeiladu ar hyn a gwneud dull mwy cyfannol, creu dull mwy cyfannol, o sicrhau bod lles ac iechyd meddwl pobl ifanc a phlant mewn ysgolion yn parhau i fod yn flaenoriaeth i ysgolion ac i'r Llywodraeth hon?
Well, thank you, Alun. I was very pleased to visit Tredegar comprehensive with you, although slightly disappointed not to see your photograph on the wall, amongst other notable ex-pupils of the school. [Laughter.] But I have to say the conversations that I had with the pupils at Tredegar are ones that I have with school pupils constantly. I've yet to go to a school council meeting where the issue of mental health and well-being isn't at the top of the agenda. And we are, of course, aware that the Youth Parliament regards mental health and well-being as one of its priorities for its term. What's important is that this Government is investing, in this year alone, £2.5 million to embed activity across a whole range of whole-school approaches, including additional resources to cut waiting times for school counselling appointments. And, as a Government, we are determined to work with schools, and those in the middle tier who support our schools, to ensure that mental health and well-being is indeed taken as not just an element of the curriculum, but underpins a culture of how education operates in our country.
Wel, diolch, Alun. Roeddwn yn falch iawn o ymweld ag Ysgol Gyfun Tredegar gyda chi, er fy mod ychydig yn siomedig na welais eich ffotograff ar y wal, ymhlith cyn-ddisgyblion nodedig eraill yr ysgol. [Chwerthin.] Ond mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud bod y sgyrsiau a gefais gyda'r disgyblion yn Nhredegar yn sgyrsiau a gaf gyda disgyblion ysgol yn gyson. Nid wyf wedi bod mewn cyfarfod o gyngor ysgol eto lle nad yw mater lles ac iechyd meddwl ar frig yr agenda. Ac rydym yn ymwybodol, wrth gwrs, fod y Senedd Ieuenctid yn ystyried lles ac iechyd meddwl yn un o'i blaenoriaethau ar gyfer ei thymor. Yr hyn sy'n bwysig yw bod y Llywodraeth hon yn buddsoddi £2.5 miliwn eleni er mwyn ymgorffori gweithgaredd ar draws ystod gyfan o ddulliau ysgolion cyfan, gan gynnwys adnoddau ychwanegol i gwtogi amseroedd aros ar gyfer apwyntiadau cwnsela mewn ysgolion. Ac fel Llywodraeth, rydym yn benderfynol o weithio gydag ysgolion, a'r rheini yn yr haen ganol sy'n cefnogi ein hysgolion, i sicrhau bod lles ac iechyd meddwl yn cael eu hystyried o ddifrif ac nid fel elfen o'r cwricwlwm yn unig, ond yn sail i ddiwylliant o sut y mae addysg yn gweithredu yn ein gwlad.
Minister, a survey by the mental health charity Mind Cymru of over 3,000 young people aged between 11 and 19 found that one in seven young people described their mental health as either poor or very poor. Almost half of the young people surveyed said that they would not know where to go to access support within their schools, and more than half did not even feel confident approaching a teacher or other school staff if they needed help. Minister, what is your response to Mind Cymru's call that mental health and well-being be made a statutory part of the national curriculum for all learners in schools in Wales?
Weinidog, canfu arolwg gan yr elusen iechyd meddwl Mind Cymru o dros 3,000 o bobl ifanc rhwng 11 a 19 oed fod un o bob saith o bobl ifanc yn dweud bod eu hiechyd meddwl naill ai'n wael neu'n wael iawn. Dywedodd bron i hanner y bobl ifanc a holwyd na fyddent yn gwybod ble i fynd i gael cymorth yn eu hysgolion, ac nid oedd mwy na'u hanner yn teimlo'n ddigon hyderus hyd yn oed i fynd at athro neu aelod arall o staff yr ysgol arall pe bai angen help arnynt. Weinidog, beth yw eich ymateb i alwad Mind Cymru y dylid gwneud lles ac iechyd meddwl yn rhan statudol o'r cwricwlwm cenedlaethol ar gyfer pob dysgwr mewn ysgolion yng Nghymru?
Well, Oscar, it's disappointing to hear those statistics because for the academic year 2017-18, over 11,000 young people benefited from the school counselling service. But we do know that, for some young people, there are barriers to accessing that service. That's why we are, as I said, putting new resources forward to local authorities to look at ways in which we can address more collaborative arrangements with other counselling providers rather than just traditional services, for instance, online services, which might make it easier for some children to address and to raise problems that they're experiencing.
With regard to the new curriculum, one of the six areas of learning and experience will be health and well-being, and there will be ample opportunity, and indeed an expectation, that that area of learning and experience will afford teachers and other professionals working alongside our schools to deliver really effective lessons in mental health and well-being, including encouraging a habit of help-seeking behaviour if people feel that they need to seek help.
Wel, Oscar, mae'n siomedig clywed yr ystadegau hynny, oherwydd ar gyfer y flwyddyn academaidd 2017-2018, fe wnaeth dros 11,000 o bobl ifanc elwa o'r gwasanaeth cwnsela mewn ysgolion. Ond gwyddom fod rhai pobl ifanc yn wynebu rhwystrau rhag cael mynediad at y gwasanaeth hwnnw. Dyna pam rydym ni, fel y dywedais, yn darparu adnoddau newydd i awdurdodau lleol fel y gallwn edrych ar ffyrdd y gallwn ystyried trefniadau mwy cydweithredol gyda darparwyr cwnsela eraill yn hytrach na gwasanaethau traddodiadol yn unig, er enghraifft, gwasanaethau ar-lein, a allai ei gwneud yn haws i rai plant fynd i'r afael â’u problemau.
O ran y cwricwlwm newydd, un o'r chwe maes dysgu a phrofiad fydd iechyd a lles, a bydd digon o gyfle, ac yn wir, disgwyliad, y bydd y maes dysgu a phrofiad hwnnw'n sicrhau y gall athrawon a gweithwyr proffesiynol eraill sy'n gweithio gyda'n hysgolion ddarparu gwersi effeithiol iawn mewn perthynas â lles ac iechyd meddwl, gan gynnwys annog arfer o ofyn am gymorth os yw pobl yn teimlo bod angen iddynt ofyn am gymorth.
As you may be aware, I've been looking recently at the issue of neurodevelopmental conditions, and I'm discovering that many children with neurodevelopmental conditions who are on the autism spectrum as well get referred to mental health services—to child and adolescent mental health services. Sometimes there is a co-occurring mental health problem, but often other specialist services are required. So, do you have a policy on screening for neurodevelopmental conditions in schools? Do you think it would make sense to screen pupils who present with serious mental health conditions, or substance use problems, children who are excluded, or at risk of being excluded, screening them for neurodevelopmental conditions? Because there are treatments available, and, for some people, they are very, very effective. But many of our kids who have this need are not having this need being met. They're not getting the screening, they're not getting the right diagnosis, and therefore they're not getting the treatment. Is there something you can do about this?
Fel y gwyddoch efallai, rwyf wedi bod yn edrych yn ddiweddar ar fater cyflyrau niwroddatblygiadol, ac rwy'n darganfod bod llawer o blant â chyflyrau niwroddatblygiadol sydd ar y sbectrwm awtistiaeth hefyd yn cael eu hatgyfeirio at wasanaethau iechyd meddwl—at wasanaethau iechyd meddwl plant a'r glasoed. Weithiau, mae ganddynt broblem iechyd meddwl hefyd, ond yn aml, mae angen gwasanaethau arbenigol eraill. Felly, a oes gennych bolisi ar sgrinio am gyflyrau niwroddatblygiadol mewn ysgolion? A ydych yn credu y byddai'n gwneud synnwyr sgrinio disgyblion sydd â chyflyrau iechyd meddwl difrifol, neu broblemau camddefnyddio sylweddau, plant sydd wedi'u gwahardd, neu sydd mewn perygl o gael eu gwahardd, eu sgrinio am gyflyrau niwroddatblygiadol? Oherwydd mae triniaethau ar gael, ac i rai pobl, maent yn effeithiol tu hwnt. Ond nid yw'r angen hwn yn cael ei ddiwallu i lawer o'n plant sydd â'r angen hwn. Nid ydynt yn cael eu sgrinio, nid ydynt yn cael y diagnosis cywir, ac felly nid ydynt yn cael y driniaeth. A oes rhywbeth y gallwch ei wneud ynglŷn â hyn?
Well, I think the first aspect to respond appropriately to the needs of those children is to ensure that their particular learning needs are identified early in their school career. And that's why this Government is spending resources on ensuring that more and more of our professionals are provided with training to spot signs of a range of different factors that could affect a child's well-being and their ability to learn, and to be able to seek help from other professionals, if appropriate, to meet those children's individual learning needs. But I'm happy to meet with the Member to discuss the use of screening tools and whether there is a strong evidence base that that will make a difference.
Wel, credaf mai'r agwedd gyntaf er mwyn ymateb yn briodol i anghenion y plant hynny yw sicrhau bod eu hanghenion dysgu penodol yn cael eu nodi’n gynnar yn eu gyrfa ysgol. A dyna pam fod y Llywodraeth hon yn gwario adnoddau ar sicrhau bod mwy a mwy o'n gweithwyr proffesiynol yn cael hyfforddiant fel y gallant nodi arwyddion o ystod o wahanol ffactorau a allai effeithio ar les plant a’u gallu i ddysgu, ac i allu ceisio cymorth gan weithwyr proffesiynol eraill, os yn briodol, i ddiwallu anghenion dysgu unigol y plant hynny. Ond rwy'n fwy na pharod i gyfarfod â'r Aelod i drafod y defnydd o offer sgrinio, ac i weld a oes sylfaen dystiolaeth gref y bydd hynny'n gwneud gwahaniaeth.
2. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am gyllidebau ysgolion uwchradd yn Sir Benfro? OAQ54562
2. Will the Minister make a statement on secondary school budgets in Pembrokeshire? OAQ54562
As at 31 March 2019, nine secondary schools in Pembrokeshire carried forward a total surplus of £455,000, and one secondary school carried forward a deficit of £120,000. Local authorities are responsible for schools funding and should closely monitor individual schools' budgets.
Ar 31 Mawrth 2019, cafodd gwarged o £455,000 ei gario ymlaen gan naw ysgol uwchradd yn Sir Benfro, a chafodd diffyg o £120,000 ei gario ymlaen gan un ysgol uwchradd. Awdurdodau lleol sy’n gyfrifol am gyllid ysgolion, a dylent fonitro cyllidebau ysgolion unigol yn agos.
Minister, in this forthcoming financial year, all of the secondary schools in Pembrokeshire are projecting deficit budgets, and the Pembrokeshire association of secondary headteachers has made it clear that this will result in reducing the number of teaching staff, reducing the breadth of the curriculum offered, and a need to increase the number of pupils in classes to enable fewer teachers to deliver to the curriculum. As a large part of the funding for schools comes from the unhypothecated funding local authorities receive from the Welsh Government in the local government settlement, it's vitally important therefore that any money that is passed on to local authorities is used for the purpose it's given and reaches front-line services. Given the importance of ensuring any and all additional funding reaches front-line services in Pembrokeshire—and, indeed, throughout Wales—can you tell us how the Welsh Government is ensuring that any funding for education that's passed on to local authorities is used for that specific purpose?
Weinidog, yn y flwyddyn ariannol sydd i ddod, mae pob un o ysgolion uwchradd Sir Benfro yn rhagamcanu diffyg yn eu cyllidebau, ac mae cymdeithas penaethiaid uwchradd Sir Benfro wedi dweud yn glir y bydd hyn yn arwain at leihau nifer y staff addysgu, lleihau ehangder y cwricwlwm a gynigir, ac angen i gynyddu nifer y disgyblion mewn dosbarthiadau er mwyn galluogi llai o athrawon i addysgu'n unol â’r cwricwlwm. Gan fod rhan fawr o'r cyllid ar gyfer ysgolion yn dod o'r cyllid heb ei neilltuo y mae awdurdodau lleol yn ei gael gan Lywodraeth Cymru yn y setliad llywodraeth leol, mae'n hanfodol felly fod unrhyw arian a drosglwyddir i awdurdodau lleol yn cael ei ddefnyddio at y diben a nodir ar ei gyfer ac yn cyrraedd gwasanaethau rheng flaen. O ystyried pwysigrwydd sicrhau bod unrhyw arian ychwanegol a'r holl arian ychwanegol yn cyrraedd gwasanaethau rheng flaen yn Sir Benfro—ac yn wir, ledled Cymru—a allwch ddweud wrthym sut y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn sicrhau bod unrhyw gyllid ar gyfer addysg sy'n cael ei drosglwyddo i awdurdodau lleol yn cael ei ddefnyddio at y diben penodol hwnnw?
Well, the Member is absolutely right to identify the way in which the vast majority of resources that fund our schools is a matter for local authorities. I recently met with the finance distribution sub-group to discuss these issues, as well as the directors of education and the education portfolios, across the 22 local authorities, about my desire to see as much money as possible getting to the front line to support individual schools' budgets. We, of course, have a role to play in that, which is why we announced yesterday an additional £12.8 million, available in-year to help to support the cost of the teachers' pay rise this year. And our expectation is that all that money will go directly to front-line school budgets.
Wel, mae'r Aelod yn llygad ei le yn nodi'r ffordd y mae'r mwyafrif llethol o'r adnoddau sy'n ariannu ein hysgolion yn fater i awdurdodau lleol. Yn ddiweddar, cyfarfûm â’r is-grŵp dosbarthu cyllid i drafod y materion hyn, yn ogystal â’r cyfarwyddwyr addysg a’r portffolios addysg, ar draws y 22 awdurdod lleol, ynglŷn â fy awydd i weld cymaint o arian â phosibl yn cyrraedd y rheng flaen er mwyn cefnogi cyllidebau ysgolion unigol. Mae gennym ran i'w chwarae yn hyn wrth gwrs, a dyna pam y cyhoeddasom £12.8 miliwn yn ychwanegol ddoe, a fydd ar gael yn ystod y flwyddyn i gynorthwyo gyda chost codiad cyflog athrawon eleni. A'n disgwyliad yw y bydd yr holl arian hwnnw'n mynd yn uniongyrchol i gyllidebau rheng flaen ysgolion.
Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Bethan Sayed.
Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Bethan Sayed.
Diolch. Minister, the £2 million your Government announced earlier this year for mental health initiatives in university was much needed and welcomed. And you told me in July that this funding was to develop a whole-school approach that would support staff as well as students. But, at the same time, I believe you gave ColegauCymru just £175,000 for the same purpose, with regard to implementing this in further education colleges, despite there being more students in further education than higher education in Wales. How are you ensuring that students who are accessing further education are able to get the same level of support with regard to this particular mental health initiative?
Diolch. Weinidog, mawr oedd yr angen am y £2 filiwn a gyhoeddodd eich Llywodraeth yn gynharach eleni ar gyfer mentrau iechyd meddwl mewn prifysgolion, a mawr oedd y croeso iddo. Ac fe ddywedoch wrthyf ym mis Gorffennaf mai bwriad y cyllid hwn oedd datblygu dull ysgol gyfan a fyddai'n cefnogi staff yn ogystal â myfyrwyr. Ond ar yr un pryd, credaf mai £175,000 yn unig a roesoch i ColegauCymru at yr un diben, o ran rhoi hyn ar waith mewn colegau addysg bellach, er bod mwy o fyfyrwyr mewn addysg bellach nag mewn addysg uwch yng Nghymru. Sut rydych yn sicrhau y gall myfyrwyr sy'n ymgymryd ag addysg bellach gael yr un lefel o gefnogaeth mewn perthynas â'r fenter iechyd meddwl benodol hon?
The Member is absolutely right—what we're trying to develop in Welsh Government is a whole-system approach to well-being and mental health. In answer to the first questions, you've heard about work we are undertaking in schools. But, obviously, we need to continue that support as individuals make their journey through the education system. Despite constraints on the budget, I am pleased that we were able to make an allocation, both to the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales and to ColegauCymru. Last week, I met with members of ColegauCymru to discuss the need for ongoing support for mental health for FE students, and those discussions also are taking place within Government.
Mae'r Aelod yn llygad ei lle—yr hyn rydym yn ceisio'i ddatblygu yn Llywodraeth Cymru yw dull system gyfan o ymdrin â lles ac iechyd meddwl. Yn yr atebion i'r cwestiynau cyntaf, clywsoch am y gwaith a wnawn mewn ysgolion. Ond yn amlwg, mae angen i ni barhau â'r gefnogaeth honno wrth i unigolion gyflawni eu taith drwy'r system addysg. Er y cyfyngiadau ar y gyllideb, rwy'n falch ein bod wedi gallu sicrhau dyraniad, i Gyngor Cyllido Addysg Uwch Cymru ac i ColegauCymru. Yr wythnos diwethaf, cyfarfûm ag aelodau o ColegauCymru i drafod yr angen am gefnogaeth barhaus i fyfyrwyr addysg bellach mewn perthynas ag iechyd meddwl, ac mae'r trafodaethau hynny hefyd yn mynd rhagddynt yn y Llywodraeth.
Okay, and thank you for that update. When you do have more information, it would be useful to share that, because, of course, I know that the same challenges face FE students and their staff, as they do in HE.
Obviously, one of the reasons universities put forward or campaigned for money for mental health initiatives was due to the work that the National Union of Students did in part of that process, working with the Government on it. And I believe student unions are integral to the life of a university. I'm a former sabbatical officer myself at Aberystwyth University, so I know and I saw and I implemented those particular policies. But many in FE are still not experiencing that student voice or are not able to access that student voice as much as their higher education peers. And while we are going to be reducing the vote to 16—we agree on this—they will need to have access to student support services just as people who are in higher education do. So, could you tell me a bit more about what you potentially could do to ensure that there is more parity of esteem where there can be an enhancement of the student voice in further education institutions?
Iawn, a diolch am y diweddariad hwnnw. Pan fydd gennych fwy o wybodaeth, byddai'n ddefnyddiol ei rhannu, oherwydd wrth gwrs, gwn fod myfyrwyr addysg bellach a'u staff yn wynebu'r un heriau â myfyrwyr a staff addysg uwch.
Yn amlwg, un o'r rhesymau pam fod prifysgolion wedi ymgeisio neu ymgyrchu am arian ar gyfer mentrau iechyd meddwl oedd y gwaith a wnaeth Undeb Cenedlaethol y Myfyrwyr yn rhan o'r broses honno, gan weithio gyda'r Llywodraeth. A chredaf fod undebau myfyrwyr yn rhan annatod o fywyd prifysgol. Rwy'n gyn-swyddog sabothol fy hun ym Mhrifysgol Aberystwyth, felly rwy'n gyfarwydd â'r polisïau penodol hynny ac wedi eu gweld a'u rhoi ar waith. Ond mae llawer o fyfyrwyr addysg bellach yn dal i deimlo nad oes llais ganddynt fel myfyrwyr, neu nad yw llais y myfyriwr mor hygyrch iddynt ag i'w cyfoedion mewn addysg uwch. Ac er y byddwn yn gostwng yr oedran pleidleisio i 16—rydym yn cytuno ar hyn—bydd angen iddynt gael mynediad at wasanaethau cymorth i fyfyrwyr yn union yn yr un modd â'r rheini mewn addysg uwch. Felly, a allwch ddweud mwy wrthyf ynglŷn â'r hyn y gallech ei wneud o bosibl i sicrhau parch mwy cydradd lle gellir gwella llais y myfyriwr mewn sefydliadau addysg bellach?
Student voice is important at all levels of education, and what we seek to do is increase the ability for students to shape their institutions, whether that be at schools, universities or FE. I'm not so pessimistic as the Member is about the contribution that the NUS members are making to our FE. I was recently at the Graig campus at Coleg Sir Gâr in Llanelli, where we had a very productive meeting with the members of the students' union there, who are very much working in partnership with the senior management team of that college to address matters of concern to the student body in that college, and where, for instance, a very effective campaign on mental health and well-being and a very effective campaign on period poverty and period dignity within the entirety of the campuses that make up that college—. Clearly, we will want to take the opportunity of the post-compulsory education and training Bill to reinforce the importance of student voice in all aspects of post-compulsory education and training.
Mae llais y myfyriwr yn bwysig ar bob lefel o addysg, a'r hyn rydym yn ceisio ei wneud yw cynyddu'r gallu i fyfyrwyr lywio eu sefydliadau, boed hynny mewn ysgolion, prifysgolion neu addysg bellach. Nid wyf mor besimistaidd â'r Aelod ynghylch cyfraniad aelodau Undeb Cenedlaethol y Myfyrwyr i'n haddysg bellach. Yn ddiweddar, roeddwn ar gampws y Graig yng Ngholeg Sir Gâr yn Llanelli, lle cawsom gyfarfod cynhyrchiol iawn gydag aelodau undeb y myfyrwyr yno, sy'n gweithio mewn partneriaeth ag uwch dîm rheoli'r coleg hwnnw i fynd i'r afael â materion sy'n peri pryder i'r corff myfyrwyr yn y coleg hwnnw, a lle, er enghraifft, y bu ymgyrch effeithiol iawn ar iechyd meddwl a lles ac ymgyrch effeithiol iawn ar dlodi mislif ac urddas mislif ar holl gampysau'r coleg hwnnw—. Yn amlwg, byddwn yn awyddus i fanteisio ar gyfle'r Bil addysg a hyfforddiant ôl-orfodol i atgyfnerthu pwysigrwydd llais y myfyriwr ym mhob agwedd ar addysg a hyfforddiant ôl-orfodol.
Thank you for that. Just to clarify, I wasn't saying that they weren't doing their jobs effectively; I was saying they've approached me actually, saying, 'Look, we know we're doing work in further education, but we are struggling because of the patchiness of that', and so it's about how they can be helped to be more effective when they go into those institutions, not to say that they're not trying where they are having access to progressive general managers who want to try and help them.
My final question is with regard to another matter in relation to—. I raised with you institutional racism in higher education back in July, and I recently met with Cardiff University—this week—and it was a really constructive discussion, about you assuring me that there would be strategic equality plans setting out how they would be able to ensure opportunity for students with protected characteristics and these plans would make changes in terms of how people can take individual incidents of racial harassment or bullying through those institutions.
Today, you may have seen that the Equality and Human Rights Commission report has revealed that 13 per cent of students questioned had experienced racial harassment, rising to 24 per cent—almost a quarter—of students from minority ethnic backgrounds. But universities are often unaware of the true extent of the problem on these campuses, and there are huge discrepancies between the proportion of students experiencing incidents, according to the report, and the number recorded by the universities. What assurances can you give me today that those strategic plans that the universities are expected to do are going to change this? What are you doing to work with the sector to ensure that those voices are heard and that they feel that they're being listened to in any structure? They may not get to a point of reporting it formally, but they want to get to a point where they are believed and they are heard and where they can be engaged in a constructive process for the future of the university system.
Diolch. Er eglurder, nid oeddwn yn dweud nad oeddent yn gwneud eu gwaith yn effeithiol; roeddwn yn dweud eu bod wedi cysylltu â mi gan ddweud, 'Edrychwch, rydym yn gwybod ein bod yn gwneud gwaith ym maes addysg bellach, ond rydym yn ei chael hi'n anodd gan fod hwnnw mor dameidiog', ac felly mae a wnelo hyn â sut y gellir eu helpu i fod yn fwy effeithiol pan fyddant yn mynd i'r sefydliadau hynny, ac nid yw hynny'n golygu nad ydynt yn gwneud ymdrech lle mae'n rhaid iddynt gael mynediad at reolwyr cyffredinol blaengar sy'n awyddus i geisio rhoi cymorth iddynt.
Mae fy nghwestiwn olaf yn ymwneud â mater arall mewn perthynas â—. Codais hiliaeth sefydliadol mewn addysg uwch gyda chi yn ôl ym mis Gorffennaf, a chyfarfûm â Phrifysgol Caerdydd yn ddiweddar—yr wythnos hon—a bu'n drafodaeth wirioneddol adeiladol, ynglŷn â'ch sicrwydd i mi y byddai cynlluniau cydraddoldeb strategol yn nodi sut y byddent yn gallu sicrhau cyfleoedd i fyfyrwyr â nodweddion gwarchodedig ac y byddai'r cynlluniau hyn yn gwneud newidiadau o ran sut y gall pobl fynd i'r afael ag achosion unigol o fwlio neu aflonyddu hiliol yn y sefydliadau hynny.
Heddiw, efallai eich bod wedi gweld bod adroddiad y Comisiwn Cydraddoldeb a Hawliau Dynol wedi datgelu bod 13 y cant o'r myfyrwyr a holwyd wedi cael profiad o aflonyddu hiliol, gan godi i 24 y cant—bron i chwarter—y myfyrwyr o gefndiroedd lleiafrifol ethnig. Ond yn aml, nid yw prifysgolion yn ymwybodol o wir faint y broblem ar y campysau hyn, a cheir anghysonderau enfawr rhwng nifer y myfyrwyr sy'n cael profiad o ddigwyddiadau, yn ôl yr adroddiad, a'r nifer a gofnodir gan y prifysgolion. Pa sicrwydd y gallwch ei roi i mi heddiw y bydd y cynlluniau strategol hynny y mae disgwyl i'r prifysgolion eu llunio yn newid hyn? Beth rydych yn ei wneud i weithio gyda'r sector i sicrhau bod y lleisiau hynny'n cael eu clywed a'u bod yn teimlo bod rhywun yn gwrando arnynt mewn unrhyw strwythur? Efallai na fyddant yn cyrraedd pwynt lle byddant yn rhoi gwybod am y digwyddiad yn ffurfiol, ond maent yn awyddus i gyrraedd pwynt lle cânt eu credu a'u clywed a lle gallant fod yn rhan o broses adeiladol ar gyfer dyfodol y system brifysgolion.
I have indeed seen the report. It's an important piece of work, although it is very depressing reading. Once again we have to remind ourselves that Wales is not immune from issues of racism. More than simply seeing the report, I met with the Equality and Human Rights Commission recently, ahead of its publication, to have an early discussion with them about their expectations of what more Welsh Government can do. This morning, I found myself at Cardiff University and took the opportunity of meeting with representatives of HEFCW and the vast majority of Welsh vice-chancellors, who were also at the same meeting to raise this report, and I can assure the Member, and indeed all Members here, that I, Universities Wales and the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales will want to consider very carefully the recommendations of this report and will want to act on them. One way in which I can do that is including reference in my next remit letter of my expectations on universities and HEFCW to address this point, which I intend to do.
Yn wir, rwyf wedi gweld yr adroddiad. Mae'n waith pwysig, er ei fod yn ddeunydd darllen digalon iawn. Unwaith eto, mae'n rhaid inni atgoffa'n hunain nad yw Cymru yn ddiogel rhag problemau hiliaeth. Yn ogystal â darllen yr adroddiad, cyfarfûm â'r Comisiwn Cydraddoldeb a Hawliau Dynol yn ddiweddar, cyn iddo gael ei gyhoeddi, i gael trafodaeth gynnar gyda hwy ynglŷn â'u disgwyliadau o ran beth arall y gall Llywodraeth Cymru ei wneud. Y bore yma, roeddwn ym Mhrifysgol Caerdydd, a manteisiais ar y cyfle i gyfarfod â chynrychiolwyr CCAUC a'r rhan fwyaf o is-gangellorion Cymru, a oedd hefyd yn yr un cyfarfod i drafod yr adroddiad hwn, a gallaf roi sicrwydd i'r Aelod, ac yn wir i'r holl Aelodau yma, y bydd Prifysgolion Cymru, Cyngor Cyllido Addysg Uwch Cymru a minnau yn awyddus i ystyried argymhellion yr adroddiad hwn yn ofalus iawn ac eisiau gweithredu arnynt. Un ffordd y gallaf wneud hynny yw cyfeirio yn fy llythyr cylch gwaith nesaf at fy nisgwyliadau y bydd y prifysgolion a CCAUC yn mynd i'r afael â'r pwynt hwn, ac rwy'n bwriadu gwneud hynny.
Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Mohammad Asghar.
Conservative spokesperson, Mohammad Asghar.
Thank you, Madam Presiding Officer. Minister, last year, an independent panel claimed that the issue of teachers' workloads would only be addressed by looking at the wider structure of schooling. They pointed out that the way our schools work—their routines, patterns and systems—have more or less been unchanged since schooling for every child began in Victorian times. Minister, have you seen this report, and what is your response to its call for a commission to be set up to look at whether changing the system of school days, terms and holidays would lead to changes that would relieve the pressure on teaching staff?
Diolch, Lywydd. Weinidog, y llynedd, honnodd panel annibynnol na fyddai mater llwyth gwaith athrawon ond yn cael sylw drwy edrych ar strwythur ehangach addysg ysgol. Tynnwyd sylw at y ffaith nad yw'r ffordd y mae ein hysgolion yn gweithio—eu harferion, eu patrymau a'u systemau—wedi newid o gwbl, fwy neu lai, ers dechrau rhoi addysg ysgol i bob plentyn yn oes Fictoria. Weinidog, a ydych wedi gweld yr adroddiad hwn, a beth yw eich ymateb i'w alwad i sefydlu comisiwn i ystyried a fyddai newid y system o ran dyddiau, tymhorau a gwyliau ysgolion yn arwain at newidiadau a fyddai'n lleddfu'r pwysau ar staff addysgu?
I have to say, Presiding Officer, it would be helpful if the Member could keep up. That commission was established several months ago under the chairmanship of Mick Waters. It includes headteachers from Wales and school governors from Wales as well as independent experts outside the Welsh education system.
Mae'n rhaid imi ddweud, Lywydd, y byddai'n ddefnyddiol pe gallai'r Aelod ddal i fyny. Sefydlwyd y comisiwn hwnnw sawl mis yn ôl o dan gadeiryddiaeth Mick Waters. Mae'n cynnwys penaethiaid o Gymru a llywodraethwyr ysgolion o Gymru yn ogystal ag arbenigwyr annibynnol o'r tu allan i system addysg Cymru.
The National Foundation for Educational Research says that there is an unmet demand from secondary teachers or secondary school teachers wanting to reduce or alter their hours. They estimate that one in six teachers would like to reduce their hours and urge secondary school leaders to do more to accommodate teachers who want to work part-time or flexibly. Minister, can I ask what representations you have received on this matter and what guidance you have issued to schools with regard to part-time and flexible working, the lack of which is an important factor in some teachers leaving the profession in Wales?
Dywed y Sefydliad Cenedlaethol er Ymchwil i Addysg fod galw nad yw'n cael ei ddiwallu gan athrawon uwchradd neu athrawon ysgolion uwchradd sy'n awyddus i gwtogi neu newid eu horiau. Maent yn amcangyfrif yr hoffai un o bob chwe athro gwtogi eu horiau ac maent yn annog arweinwyr ysgolion uwchradd i wneud mwy i ddarparu ar gyfer athrawon sy'n awyddus i weithio'n rhan-amser neu'n hyblyg. Weinidog, a gaf fi ofyn pa sylwadau rydych wedi'u cael ar y mater hwn a pha ganllawiau a roesoch i ysgolion mewn perthynas â gweithio'n rhan-amser ac yn hyblyg, gan fod diffyg y math hwnnw o weithio yn ffactor pwysig ym mhenderfyniad rhai athrawon i adael y proffesiwn yng Nghymru?
I've not received any representation from the teaching unions about the specifics that the Member mentions around part-time and flexible working, although workload issues in general are a standing item on the agenda every time I meet with the teaching unions. The flexibility that the Member just highlighted is indeed one of the things that the re-imagining the school day commission is actively looking at and to see whether there is a real appetite for change in this regard.
Nid wyf wedi cael unrhyw sylwadau gan undebau'r athrawon am y manylion penodol y mae'r Aelod yn eu crybwyll ynghylch gweithio'n rhan-amser ac yn hyblyg, er bod materion llwyth gwaith yn gyffredinol yn eitem sefydlog ar yr agenda bob tro y byddaf yn cyfarfod ag undebau'r athrawon. Mae'r hyblygrwydd a nodwyd gan yr Aelod yn wir yn un o'r pethau y mae'r comisiwn i ailfeddwl y diwrnod ysgol yn eu hystyried ac i weld a oes awydd gwirioneddol am newid yn hyn o beth.
Carry on, Mohammad Asghar.
Parhewch, Mohammad Asghar.
Thank you. Data from the annual school census shows that there has been a 7.5 per cent cut to primary-school support staff since 2014 and 2015. There are more than 1,000 fewer standard teaching assistants and 300 special needs support staff working in Welsh primary schools compared to four years ago.
Last week, Wales Online reported that the headteachers were calling on the Welsh Government to provide more cash directly to schools, as the cuts have reached unsustainable levels and schools are at breaking point. Minister, when will you take action to address the crisis in school funding in Wales? As I just read this morning, the real-term funding cuts from 2010 to 2018 are nearly an 8 per cent reduction in funding for primary schools, which is totally not giving the service to schools and the teachers at the same time.
Diolch. Mae data o'r cyfrifiad ysgolion blynyddol yn dangos bod toriad o 7.5 y cant wedi bod i staff cymorth ysgolion cynradd ers 2014 a 2015. Mae dros 1,000 yn llai o gynorthwywyr addysgu safonol a 300 yn llai o staff cymorth anghenion arbennig yn gweithio yn ysgolion cynradd Cymru o gymharu â phedair blynedd yn ôl.
Yr wythnos diwethaf, adroddodd Wales Online fod y penaethiaid yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i ddarparu mwy o arian yn uniongyrchol i ysgolion, gan fod y toriadau wedi cyrraedd lefelau anghynaliadwy ac mae ysgolion ar ben eu tennyn. Weinidog, pryd y byddwch yn gweithredu i fynd i'r afael â'r argyfwng cyllid ysgolion yng Nghymru? Fel rwyf newydd ei ddarllen y bore yma, mae'r toriadau cyllid mewn termau real rhwng 2010 a 2018 yn ostyngiad o bron i 8 y cant mewn cyllid i ysgolion cynradd, ac yn sicr, nid yw hynny'n rhoi'r gwasanaeth i ysgolion a'r athrawon ar yr un pryd.
My ability to respond positively to those issues, of course, would be helped immensely if we were to see an end to austerity originating out of the Member's own party and their Government in Westminster. Later on this afternoon, we will be able to have an extended debate on the work of the Children, Young People and Education Committee around the issue of school funding. I am determined, in the constraints of the money available to this Welsh Government, to do all I can to get as much money to the front line as possible.
Byddai fy ngallu i ymateb yn gadarnhaol i'r materion hynny, wrth gwrs, yn cael cryn dipyn o gymorth pe bai'r cyni sy'n tarddu o blaid yr Aelod ei hun a'u Llywodraeth yn San Steffan yn dod i ben. Yn ddiweddarach y prynhawn yma, byddwn yn cael dadl estynedig ar waith y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg ynghylch mater cyllid ysgolion. Yn wyneb y cyfyngiadau ar yr arian sydd ar gael i Lywodraeth Cymru, rwy'n benderfynol o wneud popeth a allaf i sicrhau bod cymaint o arian â phosibl yn cyrraedd y rheng flaen.
3. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am gyllid addysgol fesul disgybl yng Nghymru? OAQ54583
3. Will the Minister provide an update on educational funding per pupil in Wales? OAQ54583
According to the Institute for Fiscal Studies analysis, spending per pupil in Wales is just below £6,000 on average. However, this varies considerably between local authorities, reflecting differences in deprivation and sparsity, as well as choices made by individual local authorities in line with their responsibilities for setting school budgets.
Yn ôl dadansoddiad y Sefydliad Astudiaethau Cyllid, mae gwariant fesul disgybl yng Nghymru ychydig o dan £6,000 ar gyfartaledd. Fodd bynnag, mae hyn yn amrywio'n sylweddol rhwng awdurdodau lleol, gan adlewyrchu gwahaniaethau o ran amddifadedd a theneurwydd poblogaeth, yn ogystal â dewisiadau a wneir gan awdurdodau lleol unigol yn unol â'u cyfrifoldebau dros osod cyllidebau ysgolion.
Minister, in the last 10 years, pupil spending per pupil has fallen £500, which is almost 10 per cent. Schools are really struggling financially. They're in a position where they're going to have to be laying staff off. So, as the Minister for Education in Wales, with that backdrop and with that crisis in funding, how can you justify your Government's position and what are you going to do about the problem?
Weinidog, dros y 10 mlynedd diwethaf, mae gwariant y pen ar ddisgyblion wedi gostwng £500, sef bron i 10 y cant. Mae ysgolion yn ei chael hi'n anodd iawn yn ariannol. Maent mewn sefyllfa lle bydd yn rhaid iddynt ddiswyddo staff. Felly, fel y Gweinidog Addysg yng Nghymru, gyda'r cefndir hwnnw a'r argyfwng hwnnw o ran cyllid, sut y gallwch gyfiawnhau safbwynt eich Llywodraeth a beth a wnewch ynglŷn â'r broblem?
As I have just explained to Mohammad Asghar, later on this afternoon we will have an opportunity to debate the findings of the CYPE report. I don't want to pre-empt that debate, but the Member will be aware that I've accepted all the recommendations of that report, including its main recommendation, which is to establish an independent review into education funding in Wales, examining the role of the Welsh Government, the middle tier, the local authorities, who have the main responsibility for funding schools, and how we can ensure that we know that enough funding is getting into our education system and that, in the way in which that money is spent, it is used adequately.
Fel rwyf newydd egluro wrth Mohammad Asghar, yn ddiweddarach y prynhawn yma, byddwn yn cael cyfle i drafod canfyddiadau adroddiad y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg. Nid wyf am achub y blaen ar y ddadl honno, ond bydd yr Aelod yn ymwybodol fy mod wedi derbyn holl argymhellion yr adroddiad hwnnw, gan gynnwys ei brif argymhelliad, sef sefydlu adolygiad annibynnol i gyllid addysg yng Nghymru, gan archwilio rôl Llywodraeth Cymru, yr haen ganol, yr awdurdodau lleol, sydd â'r prif gyfrifoldeb am ariannu ysgolion, a sut y gallwn sicrhau ein bod yn gwybod bod digon o arian yn dod i mewn i'n system addysg a'i fod, o ran y ffordd y gwerir yr arian hwnnw, yn cael ei ddefnyddio'n briodol.
Minister, of course, the amount per pupil goes up marginally every time there's an announcement of a rise in teachers' pay and pensions. I was very grateful to you for your statement yesterday. I wonder whether you can just confirm that the £12.8 million that you mentioned in that statement is part of the £14 million mentioned last year, or whether it's coming from a completely different source. I'm sure you'll agree that the £195 million announced from the UK Government in the spending round will actually make this easier, going forward, as well, particularly as teachers' pay has now been devolved.
I just want to go back to the question Paul Davies raised with you. You, of course, have no control over this money once it hits the revenue support grant. I'm wondering what steps you will take against councils who don't actually pass this money on to schools, particularly as there's a risk that if they don't do so they will continue to lose teachers, let alone see schools affected by the wider points that, actually, Neil McEvoy was making.
Weinidog, wrth gwrs, mae'r swm fesul disgybl yn codi fymryn bob tro y ceir cyhoeddiad o gynnydd yng nghyflogau a phensiynau athrawon. Roeddwn yn ddiolchgar iawn i chi am eich datganiad ddoe. Tybed a allwch gadarnhau a yw'r £12.8 miliwn y sonioch amdano yn y datganiad hwnnw yn rhan o'r £14 miliwn a grybwyllwyd y llynedd, neu a yw'n dod o ffynhonnell hollol wahanol. Rwy'n siŵr eich bod yn cytuno y bydd y £195 miliwn a gyhoeddwyd gan Lywodraeth y DU yn y rownd wario'n gwneud hyn yn haws hefyd yn y dyfodol, yn enwedig gan fod cyflogau athrawon bellach wedi'u datganoli.
Hoffwn ddychwelyd at y cwestiwn a ofynnodd Paul Davies i chi. Wrth gwrs, nid oes gennych unrhyw reolaeth dros yr arian hwn pan fydd yn taro'r grant cynnal refeniw. Tybed pa gamau y byddwch yn eu cymryd yn erbyn cynghorau nad ydynt yn trosglwyddo'r arian hwn i ysgolion, yn enwedig gan fod perygl, os na fyddant yn gwneud hynny, y byddant yn parhau i golli athrawon, heb sôn am weld ysgolion yn cael eu heffeithio gan y pwyntiau ehangach a wnaed gan Neil McEvoy.
Okay. So, the money that was announced yesterday, the £12.8 million in-year to support local authorities with the costs of implementing the teachers' pay rise, is new money, in addition, being made available by my colleague the finance Minister. It should be said that we have received not a single penny of consequentials from the Westminster Government to pay for the teachers' pay rise, because in England it has been paid out of a £50 million underspend within that departmental budget. Going forward, I and the Minister for local government have had conversations with colleagues in local government about the need to spend this additional money on its intended purposes, i.e. support for teachers' pay. My understanding is that both of us have received assurances from local authorities that that money will be spent for that purpose.
Iawn. Felly, mae'r arian a gyhoeddwyd ddoe, y £12.8 miliwn yn ystod y flwyddyn i gynorthwyo awdurdodau lleol gyda chostau gweithredu'r codiad yng nghyflogau athrawon, yn arian newydd ychwanegol, sy'n cael ei ddarparu gan fy nghyd-Aelod, y Gweinidog cyllid. Dylid nodi nad ydym wedi derbyn yr un geiniog o gyllid canlyniadol gan Lywodraeth San Steffan i dalu am y codiad yng nghyflogau athrawon, oherwydd yn Lloegr, fe'i talwyd o danwariant o £50 miliwn yn y gyllideb adrannol honno. Wrth symud ymlaen, mae'r Gweinidog llywodraeth leol a minnau wedi cael sgyrsiau gyda chydweithwyr mewn llywodraeth leol am yr angen i wario'r arian ychwanegol hwn ar y dibenion a fwriadwyd ar ei gyfer, h.y. cymorth tuag at gyflogau athrawon. Yn ôl fy nealltwriaeth i, mae'r ddwy ohonom wedi cael sicrwydd gan awdurdodau lleol y bydd yr arian hwnnw'n cael ei wario at y diben hwnnw.
I believe education needs a greater proportion of the Welsh budget, and that a highly educated workforce is the best economic development tool we can have. On the additional money announced for the teachers' pay award, which you announced yesterday, is it going to be distributed via the funding formula to local authorities and then on to schools, which will produce winners and losers, or allocated to schools to meet the increased costs on a cost basis? It does make a huge difference which way you do it, because if you do it by just putting it in the formula, you'll have winners and losers amongst local authorities and winners and losers amongst schools.
Credaf fod angen gwario cyfran fwy o gyllideb Cymru ar addysg, ac mai gweithlu tra addysgedig yw'r offeryn gorau y gallwn ei gael at ddibenion datblygu economaidd. O ran yr arian ychwanegol a gyhoeddwyd ar gyfer dyfarniad cyflogau athrawon, a gyhoeddwyd gennych ddoe, a fydd yn cael ei ddosbarthu drwy'r fformiwla ariannu i awdurdodau lleol ac yna ymlaen i ysgolion, rhywbeth sy'n mynd i arwain at enillwyr a chollwyr, neu a fydd yn cael ei ddyrannu i ysgolion i ddiwallu'r costau uwch ar sail cost? Mae sut rydych yn gwneud hynny'n gwneud gwahaniaeth enfawr, oherwydd os gwnewch hynny drwy ei roi yn y fformiwla yn unig, bydd gennych enillwyr a chollwyr ymhlith awdurdodau lleol ac enillwyr a chollwyr ymhlith ysgolion.
I agree with you, Mike, with regard to the importance of investing in education. It is an investment; it's not a cost. If we want to develop the high skills that we will need for a successful economy in the future, the best thing that we can do is invest in our children and in those who work with them every day. The allocation is agreed between us and the local authorities, and will be done on the basis of their fair share of that additional £12.8 million that we've been able to make available to them.
Rwy'n cytuno â chi, Mike, o ran pwysigrwydd buddsoddi mewn addysg. Mae'n fuddsoddiad; nid yw'n gost. Os ydym am ddatblygu’r sgiliau uchel y bydd eu hangen arnom ar gyfer economi lwyddiannus yn y dyfodol, y peth gorau y gallwn ei wneud yw buddsoddi yn ein plant ac yn y rhai sy’n gweithio gyda hwy bob dydd. Cytunir ar y dyraniad rhyngom ni a'r awdurdodau lleol, a chaiff ei wneud ar sail eu cyfran deg o'r £12.8 miliwn ychwanegol hwnnw rydym wedi gallu ei ddarparu iddynt.
4. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i hysbysu ac addysgu pobl ifanc am ddigartrefedd drwy'r system addysg? OAQ54595
4. What action is the Welsh Government taking to inform and educate young people about homelessness through the education system? OAQ54595
Thank you very much. Preventing homelessness requires a holistic approach across all public services. However, within education, the youth service is playing a key role in tackling and preventing homelessness. This is supported through our wider education reform, including our new curriculum and the introduction of a whole-school approach to mental health and well-being.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Mae angen ymagwedd gyfannol ar draws yr holl wasanaethau cyhoeddus er mwyn atal digartrefedd. Fodd bynnag, ym maes addysg, mae'r gwasanaeth ieuenctid yn chwarae rhan allweddol yn atal a mynd i'r afael â digartrefedd. Cefnogir hyn drwy ein gwaith ehangach ar ddiwygio addysg, gan gynnwys ein cwricwlwm newydd a chyflwyno dull ysgol gyfan o ymdrin ag iechyd meddwl a llesiant.
Thank you for that encouraging answer. I'm sure you'll be encouraged by the Youth Parliament also calling for a greater focus on skills in our educational system. The skill of living, the skill of keeping a tenancy going, and the skill of knowing where to go for help when things break down is an essential one, I would say. In those classes that promote citizenship, social awareness and health and well-being, as you referred to, I really do think we need to focus on this great scourge, because one of the worst things that can happen to you is that you're homeless or, indeed, end up on the streets as a rough-sleeper. I think this is where we need to start to tackle the problem, just making people more aware of what to do, and schools and colleges have a great part to play here.
Diolch am eich ateb calonogol. Rwy'n siŵr y bydd y ffaith bod y Senedd Ieuenctid hefyd yn galw am fwy o ffocws ar sgiliau yn ein system addysgol yn eich calonogi. Mae'r sgil o fyw, y sgil o gynnal tenantiaeth, a'r sgil o wybod ble i ofyn am gymorth pan fydd pethau'n mynd o chwith yn un hanfodol, yn fy marn i. Yn y dosbarthiadau sy'n hyrwyddo dinasyddiaeth, ymwybyddiaeth gymdeithasol ac iechyd a lles, fel y sonioch, rwy'n meddwl o ddifrif fod angen inni ganolbwyntio ar y broblem fawr hon, gan mai un o'r pethau gwaethaf a all ddigwydd i chi yw eich bod yn ddigartref, neu'n wir, yn cysgu allan ar y strydoedd. Credaf mai dyma lle mae angen i ni ddechrau mynd i'r afael â'r broblem, sicrhau bod pobl yn fwy ymwybodol o'r hyn y dylent ei wneud, ac mae gan ysgolion a cholegau ran hanfodol i'w chwarae yn hyn o beth.
I couldn't agree with you more, David; I'm sure all of us with an interest in these issues will have been impressed by the strength of the call from members of our Youth Parliament for reform of the education system, and the need to balance their education system, yes, with subject knowledge and qualifications, but also with those essential skills that they feel they need to be the successful adults that they want to be when they leave school. And I look forward to joining with members of the Youth Parliament on Friday of this week to discuss the contents of that report, and how our reform journey can respond as positively as possible to that call from young people themselves about what they see to be the current deficit in the education model that we have.
We also know, David, that the warning signs of potentially becoming NEET are also a good indicator of a warning sign of a young person that is in danger of becoming homeless. So, there is work that we need to do within schools about ensuring that children are participating in school, attending, and not in danger of dropping out, because that is a very good warning sign to us that they potentially could go on to be homeless. So, there are many things, as I said, that we're doing at the moment, including additional investment, specifically in the youth service, to work alongside schools and young people on a preventing homelessness agenda, which I think will deliver real benefits for children and young people, as well as our wider curriculum reform and the opportunity that affords us to address the issues of skills.
Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â chi, David; rwy'n siŵr y bydd pob un ohonom sydd â diddordeb yn y materion hyn wedi ein calonogi gan gryfder yr alwad gan aelodau o'n Senedd Ieuenctid am ddiwygio'r system addysg, a'r angen i gydbwyso eu system addysg, ie, â gwybodaeth am bynciau a chymwysterau, ond hefyd â'r sgiliau hanfodol y teimlant fod eu hangen arnynt er mwyn bod yn oedolion llwyddiannus pan fyddant yn gadael yr ysgol. Ac edrychaf ymlaen at ymuno ag aelodau o’r Senedd Ieuenctid ddydd Gwener yr wythnos hon i drafod cynnwys yr adroddiad hwnnw, a sut y gall ein taith ddiwygio ymateb mewn ffordd mor gadarnhaol â phosibl i’r alwad gan ein pobl ifanc eu hunain am yr hyn y maent yn ei ystyried yn ddiffyg ar hyn o bryd yn y model addysg sydd gennym.
Gwyddom hefyd, David, fod yr arwyddion ynghylch y posibilrwydd o ddod yn NEET hefyd yn ddangosyddion da o arwydd fod unigolyn ifanc mewn perygl o fynd yn ddigartref. Felly, mae angen inni wneud gwaith mewn ysgolion ar sicrhau bod plant yn cymryd rhan yn yr ysgol, yn mynychu, ac nid mewn perygl o adael, gan fod hynny'n arwydd da iawn i ni y gallent fynd yn ddigartref o bosibl. Felly, fel y dywedais, mae llawer o bethau rydym yn eu gwneud ar hyn o bryd, gan gynnwys buddsoddiad ychwanegol, yn benodol yn y gwasanaeth ieuenctid, i weithio ochr yn ochr ag ysgolion a phobl ifanc ar agenda atal digartrefedd, a fydd, yn fy marn i, yn sicrhau manteision gwirioneddol i blant a phobl ifanc, yn ogystal â'n diwygiadau ehangach i'r cwricwlwm a'r cyfle y mae hynny'n ei roi i ni fynd i'r afael â materion yn ymwneud â sgiliau.
Like austerity, homelessness is a political choice; it's a political choice made by politicians and by Government, and some people are of the view that homeless people themselves choose to be in that predicament, which is obviously complete rubbish. But that view is reinforced by authorities who clear homeless people out of the way, remove their belongings when they want to, and treat people generally with very little understanding and empathy. The only way to change attitudes is through education, and one of the best ways to educate is through direct experience. So, how can homeless people's direct experience help to inform young people to learn about this social disease, and do you think that links with direct experience will help people to become more sympathetic?
Fel cyni, mae digartrefedd yn ddewis gwleidyddol; mae'n ddewis gwleidyddol a wneir gan wleidyddion a chan y Llywodraeth, ac mae rhai pobl o'r farn fod pobl ddigartref eu hunain yn dewis bod yn y sefyllfa honno, sy'n amlwg yn rwtsh llwyr. Ond caiff y farn honno ei hatgyfnerthu gan awdurdodau sy'n symud pobl ddigartref allan o'r ffordd, yn cael gwared ar eu heiddo ar fympwy, ac yn trin pobl yn gyffredinol heb fawr ddim dealltwriaeth nac empathi. Yr unig ffordd o newid agweddau yw drwy addysg, ac un o'r ffyrdd gorau o addysgu yw drwy brofiad uniongyrchol. Felly, sut y gall profiadau uniongyrchol pobl ddigartref helpu i lywio pobl ifanc i ddysgu am y clefyd cymdeithasol hwn, ac a ydych yn credu y bydd cysylltiadau â phrofiad uniongyrchol yn helpu pobl i fod yn fwy sympathetig?
First of all, Leanne, can I say I have never believed, and I will never believe, that homelessness is a choice? It is the result of a set of circumstances that many of us in this Chamber hopefully will never know, but all of us could potentially be. A critical illness, a relationship breakdown, a drug or alcohol misuse problem can lead to this, so we should be very careful when we make those kinds of accusations and assertions about what leads to homelessness. It can happen to everybody regardless of where their starting position in life is, but we do know there are some people who are potentially more vulnerable to homelessness. And you're right that education can be a powerful tool in preventing homelessness, but also developing understanding of that problem for people who experience it.
There is a reason why in our new curriculum we talk about areas of learning and experience, because my expectation of the curriculum is that it will afford the space in the school day for children to exactly experience what you have talked about—to be able to meet with people and to discuss with people who have that direct experience of what it is to live without a secure home, what it is to live out on the streets. And I believe our new curriculum creates that space and the expectation that we can work with voluntary organisations, organisations of survivors of all types of issues, that we can work together in our schools to deliver that broad education that our Youth Parliament is calling upon us to do.
Yn gyntaf, Leanne, a gaf fi ddweud nad wyf erioed wedi bod o'r farn, ac ni fyddaf byth o'r farn, fod digartrefedd yn ddewis? Mae'n ganlyniad i gyfres o amgylchiadau na fydd llawer ohonom yn y Siambr hon yn eu hwynebu, gobeithio, ond fe allai ddigwydd i unrhyw un ohonom. Gall salwch difrifol, chwalfa perthynas, problemau camddefnyddio cyffuriau neu alcohol arwain at hyn, felly dylem fod yn ofalus iawn wrth wneud y mathau hynny o gyhuddiadau a honiadau ynghylch yr hyn sy'n arwain at ddigartrefedd. Gall ddigwydd i bawb, o ble bynnag y byddant yn cychwyn mewn bywyd, ond gwyddom fod rhai pobl a allai fod yn fwy agored i ddigartrefedd. Ac rydych yn iawn y gall addysg fod yn arf pwerus i atal digartrefedd, ond hefyd i ddatblygu dealltwriaeth o'r broblem i'r bobl sy'n ei hwynebu.
Mae rheswm pam ein bod yn siarad am feysydd dysgu a phrofiad yn ein cwricwlwm newydd, oherwydd fy nisgwyliad o ran y cwricwlwm yw y bydd yn darparu lle yn y diwrnod ysgol i blant brofi'r union beth y buoch yn sôn amdano—gallu cyfarfod â phobl a thrafod â phobl sydd â'r profiad uniongyrchol o fyw heb gartref diogel, o fyw ar y strydoedd. A chredaf fod ein cwricwlwm newydd yn creu'r lle hwnnw a'r disgwyliad y gallwn weithio gyda sefydliadau gwirfoddol, sefydliadau goroeswyr pob math o broblemau, y gallwn weithio gyda'n gilydd yn ein hysgolion i ddarparu'r addysg eang honno y mae ein Senedd Ieuenctid yn galw arnom i'w darparu.
5. Pa drafodaethau y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'u cael gyda'r Gweinidog Cyllid a'r Trefnydd ynghylch sicrhau bod cyrff addysg yng Nghymru yn cael digon o arian, cyn cyhoeddi cyllideb Llywodraeth Cymru? OAQ54563
5. What discussions has the Minister had with the Minister for Finance and Trefnydd on ensuring that Welsh education bodies receive adequate funding, ahead of the Welsh Government's budget being announced? OAQ54563
Andrew, I continue to have discussions with the Minister for finance to ensure that the budget settlement for education is sufficient to support delivery of our priorities. This includes ensuring that our education bodies receive adequate funding.
Andrew, rwy'n parhau i gael trafodaethau gyda'r Gweinidog cyllid i sicrhau bod y setliad cyllideb ar gyfer addysg yn ddigon i gefnogi'r gwaith o gyflawni ein blaenoriaethau. Mae hyn yn cynnwys sicrhau bod ein cyrff addysg yn derbyn cyllid digonol.
Thank you for that answer, Minister. I've had correspondence with the headteacher and chairman of governors from Evenlode Primary School in Penarth who have highlighted the real difficult and challenging financial environment they and many other schools face across Wales. Hopefully, there will be consequentials flowing from the announcements made in Westminster, and some of those consequentials, obviously, are directly in your field of education. Are you confident that those consequentials, when the Welsh Government makes its decisions, will find themselves in the education budget so that the shortage of teachers that are available to fill many of the key posts that primary schools need to fill will be there and the budgets will be there to pay them? The evidence that they provided me has shown that across Wales there are nearly 1,300 extra pupils but there are 278 fewer full-time equivalent teachers and 533 fewer full-time equivalent teaching support staff. So, obviously, if the budget is there, then schools can go out and obviously make these employment choices. So, can we have an assurance that those consequentials will find their way into your budget lines?
Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog. Rwyf wedi bod yn gohebu â phennaeth a chadeirydd llywodraethwyr Ysgol Gynradd Evenlode ym Mhenarth sydd wedi tynnu sylw at yr amgylchedd ariannol gwirioneddol anodd a heriol y maent hwy a llawer o ysgolion eraill ledled Cymru yn ei wynebu. Gobeithio y bydd cyllid canlyniadol yn deillio o'r cyhoeddiadau a wnaed yn San Steffan, ac mae peth o'r cyllid canlyniadol hwnnw, yn amlwg, yn rhan uniongyrchol o'ch maes chi, sef addysg. A ydych yn hyderus y bydd y cyllid canlyniadol hwnnw, pan fydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwneud ei phenderfyniadau, yn cyrraedd y gyllideb addysg fel y bydd yr athrawon ar gael i lenwi llawer o'r swyddi allweddol y mae angen i ysgolion cynradd eu llenwi ac y bydd y cyllidebau yno i'w talu? Mae'r dystiolaeth a ddarparwyd ganddynt wedi dangos bod bron i 1,300 o ddisgyblion ychwanegol ledled Cymru, ond bod 278 yn llai o athrawon cyfwerth ag amser llawn a 533 yn llai o staff cymorth addysgu cyfwerth ag amser llawn. Felly, yn amlwg, os yw'r gyllideb yno, gall ysgolion, yn amlwg, wneud y dewisiadau hyn ynghylch cyflogaeth. Felly, a allwn gael sicrwydd y bydd y cyllid canlyniadol hwnnw'n cyrraedd eich llinellau cyllideb?
As I said in answer to earlier questions, Andrew, we are working across Government to prioritise front-line services, whether that be education, social services or the range of other public services that the members of the public expect this Welsh Government to deliver. The vast majority of education funding does not come from the education department. It comes, as was identified by your leader earlier on in questions, via the revenue support grant for local government. We will do everything that we can to ensure both education and local government get a great deal in this budget.
Fel y dywedais wrth ateb cwestiynau cynharach, Andrew, rydym yn gweithio ar draws y Llywodraeth i flaenoriaethu gwasanaethau rheng flaen, boed hynny'n addysg, gwasanaethau cymdeithasol neu'r ystod o wasanaethau cyhoeddus eraill y mae aelodau'r cyhoedd yn disgwyl i Lywodraeth Cymru eu darparu. Nid yw'r mwyafrif llethol o gyllid addysg yn dod o'r adran addysg. Mae'n dod, fel y nodwyd gan eich arweinydd yn gynharach mewn cwestiynau, drwy'r grant cynnal refeniw ar gyfer llywodraeth leol. Byddwn yn gwneud popeth a allwn i sicrhau bod addysg a llywodraeth leol yn cael yn dda yn y gyllideb hon.
Thank you, Andrew, for raising this very important question. Like Andrew R.T. Davies, I too have had many talks with local high schools and primary schools but also with the local authority as well, and I welcome the announcement made yesterday, and that was actually my line of questioning to that. So, I welcome that and thank you, Minister, but can you just reassure the Assembly that those cross-Cabinet conversations will continue over the next few years? It's clearly uncertain and worrying times for local authorities and school providers.
Diolch am godi'r cwestiwn pwysig hwn, Andrew. Fel Andrew R.T. Davies, rwyf innau hefyd wedi cael llawer o sgyrsiau gydag ysgolion uwchradd lleol ac ysgolion cynradd ond hefyd gyda’r awdurdod lleol, a chroesawaf y cyhoeddiad a wnaed ddoe, ac roedd fy nghwestiynau'n ymwneud â hynny, mewn gwirionedd. Felly, rwy'n croesawu hynny a diolch, Weinidog, ond a allwch roi sicrwydd i'r Cynulliad y bydd y sgyrsiau traws-Gabinet hynny'n parhau dros yr ychydig flynyddoedd nesaf? Mae'n amlwg yn adeg ansicr a phryderus i awdurdodau lleol a darparwyr ysgolion.
Presiding Officer, can I thank Jack Sargeant for his welcome of the additional resources that we've been able to make available to help cover the costs of teachers' pay rises? And, yes, I absolutely can confirm that those discussions, on a cross-Cabinet basis, will continue and there is a determination across the entirety of Welsh Government to prioritise front-line spending on those public services that mean the most to our constituents.
Lywydd, a gaf fi ddiolch i Jack Sargeant am groesawu'r adnoddau ychwanegol rydym wedi gallu eu darparu i helpu i dalu am gostau'r codiadau yng nghyflogau athrawon? A gallaf, fe allaf gadarnhau’n bendant y bydd y trafodaethau hynny, ar sail draws-Gabinet, yn parhau a bod agwedd benderfynol ar draws Llywodraeth Cymru i flaenoriaethu gwariant rheng flaen ar y gwasanaethau cyhoeddus sy’n golygu fwyaf i’n hetholwyr.
6. Sut y mae'r Gweinidog yn sicrhau bod y canllawiau newydd ar siarad am hunanladdiad yn cael eu rhoi ar waith ym mhob ysgol yng Nghymru? OAQ54602
6. How is the Minister ensuring that the new guidance on talking about suicide is implemented in all schools in Wales? OAQ54602
Thank you, Lynne. As you know, we launched together on 10 September the new guidance and we will continue to work with partners, including the national advisory group, to ensure that it is promoted extensively amongst professionals, not just in schools but more widely across the system. And as part of our whole-school approach, we will consider how best to monitor its implementation, take-up and impact.
Diolch yn fawr, Lynne. Fel y gwyddoch, fe wnaethom lansio'r canllawiau newydd gyda'n gilydd ar 10 Medi a byddwn yn parhau i weithio gyda phartneriaid, gan gynnwys y grŵp cynghori cenedlaethol, i sicrhau eu bod yn cael ei hyrwyddo'n helaeth ymhlith gweithwyr proffesiynol, nid yn unig mewn ysgolion ond yn ehangach ar draws y system. Ac fel rhan o'n dull ysgol gyfan, byddwn yn ystyried y ffordd orau o fonitro'r broses o'u rhoi ar waith, eu defnydd a'u heffaith.
Thank you, Minister. I was delighted to join you at the launch and also to welcome the guidance, but, as I said, of course, it is a first step. It's excellent guidance prepared by Professor Ann John, but it will only be as good as the implementation. I wondered, too, whether you were aware of guidance issued this week by Public Health England, which stated that a single suicide in a school should be treated as a potential cluster because of the higher risk to young people. Would you agree with me that that emphasises just how urgent it is that where there has been a suicide in a school, that that school embraces proper postvention measures, such as the Step by Step programme, which is so successful with the Samaritans?
Diolch, Weinidog. Roeddwn yn falch iawn o ymuno â chi yn y lansiad a chroesawu'r canllawiau, ond fel y dywedais, wrth gwrs, cam cyntaf yw hwn. Maent yn ganllawiau rhagorol a luniwyd gan yr Athro Ann John, ond ni fyddant ond cystal â'r broses o'u gweithredu. Tybed hefyd a ydych yn ymwybodol o ganllawiau a gyhoeddwyd yr wythnos hon gan Iechyd Cyhoeddus Lloegr, a nododd y dylid trin un achos o hunanladdiad mewn ysgol fel clwstwr posibl oherwydd y risg uwch i bobl ifanc. A fyddech yn cytuno â mi fod hynny'n pwysleisio pa mor bwysig yw hi, lle bu hunanladdiad mewn ysgol, fod yr ysgol honno'n croesawu mesurau ôl-ymyrraeth addas ar frys, fel rhaglen Cam wrth Gam, sydd mor llwyddiannus gyda'r Samariaid?
Yes. I am very well aware of the report that the Member refers to but the Member is also right in saying that the publication of our guidance is only the first step of the process. We will need to ensure, via the ministerial task and finish group, of which Lynne Neagle is a member, to develop robust implementation and monitoring systems, but it is also my intention to co-produce further resources with Professor Ann John and the expert group that sits around her, with a specific emphasis on making resources available for young people themselves. What we've made available in September of this year is very much a resource aimed at professionals working with young people, but it is now my intention to move to the next stage to make sure that there are more resources available for young people themselves.
Buaswn. Rwy’n ymwybodol iawn o’r adroddiad y cyfeiria'r Aelod ato ond mae’r Aelod hefyd yn llygad ei lle wrth ddweud mai cam cyntaf y broses yn unig yw cyhoeddi ein canllawiau. Bydd angen i ni sicrhau, drwy'r grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen gweinidogol y mae Lynne Neagle yn aelod ohono, y caiff systemau gweithredu a monitro cadarn eu datblygu, ond rwyf hefyd yn bwriadu cydgynhyrchu adnoddau pellach gyda'r Athro Ann John a'r grŵp arbenigol o'i chwmpas, gyda phwyslais penodol ar sicrhau bod adnoddau ar gael i'r bobl ifanc eu hunain. Mae'r hyn rydym wedi'i ddarparu ym mis Medi eleni yn adnodd sydd wedi'i anelu at weithwyr proffesiynol sy'n gweithio gyda phobl ifanc, ond fy mwriad bellach yw symud i'r cam nesaf i sicrhau bod mwy o adnoddau ar gael i'r bobl ifanc eu hunain.
Minister, I think the fact we are able to discuss this previously taboo subject in the open and transparent way we do shows how far we've come as a country, and I think that's to be welcomed. We, of course, in this Chamber have our own direct experience of losing our much loved colleague, Carl Sargeant, in this tragic way, so I think there's an onus on all of us to do what we can to try and get the message out there, to tell people that they don't have to feel so lost that they have to turn to this course of action.
It's been good to see recently that television programmes such as EastEnders have been dealing with the issue of suicide with the moving storylines surrounding Bex Fowler and her stress over moving on to university. We know that young people are particularly vulnerable at the time of exams and, in a way, it's hard to avoid all of that stress, but it's important that those young people are signposted at the earliest opportunity, and that window of opportunity—and sometimes it is only a window—is taken the most advantage of to reach out to them.
So, can you tell us how you are ensuring, with this guidance that Lynne Neagle has mentioned, and you have mentioned, that young people are signposted as soon there are issues arising, and they do feel that there are people that they can turn to when sometimes they feel that all is lost?
Weinidog, credaf fod y ffaith ein bod yn gallu trafod y pwnc hwn, a arferai fod yn bwnc tabŵ, yn y ffordd agored a thryloyw hon yn dangos pa mor bell rydym wedi dod fel gwlad, a chredaf fod hynny i'w groesawu. Rydym ninnau, wrth gwrs, yn y Siambr hon wedi cael ein profiad uniongyrchol ein hunain o golli ein cyd-Aelod annwyl, Carl Sargeant, yn y ffordd drasig hon, felly credaf fod cyfrifoldeb ar bob un ohonom i wneud yr hyn a allwn i geisio cyfleu'r neges honno, i ddweud wrth bobl nad oes yn rhaid iddynt deimlo ar chwâl i'r fath raddau fel bod yn rhaid iddynt weithredu yn y fath fodd.
Mae wedi bod yn dda gweld yn ddiweddar fod rhaglenni teledu fel EastEnders wedi bod yn ymdrin â mater hunanladdiad gyda'r stori deimladwy am Bex Fowler a'r straen arni wrth iddi fynd i'r brifysgol. Gwyddom fod pobl ifanc yn arbennig o agored i niwed yn ystod cyfnod arholiadau, ac mewn ffordd, mae'n anodd osgoi'r holl straen hwnnw, ond mae'n bwysig fod y bobl ifanc hynny'n cael eu cyfeirio cyn gynted â phosibl, ac y manteisir ar y cyfle hwnnw—ac weithiau dim ond cyfle am gyfnod byr ydyw—i estyn allan atynt.
Felly, a allwch ddweud wrthym sut rydych yn sicrhau, gyda'r canllawiau hyn y cyfeiriodd Lynne Neagle atynt, ac y sonioch chi amdanynt, fod pobl ifanc yn cael eu cyfeirio cyn gynted ag y bydd problemau'n codi, a'u bod yn teimlo bod pobl y gallant droi atynt pan fyddant weithiau'n teimlo bod popeth wedi'i golli?
Well, Nick, I think it is true to say that we have come some way in talking about suicide, but there is still a huge amount of stigma attached to suicide. And there is often a great nervousness amongst professionals to talk about what are very, very sensitive issues. Often they fear that what they may say may make matters worse, and that is the reason why we commissioned these resources in the first place to give confidence to our professionals working with young people about how it is really important to have these conversations—you can't make it worse—and to skill and empower them to have these discussions. But, of course, we need support services around when teachers and young people identify a problem. That's why we are making additional resources available for our counselling service. That's why we've recently announced a decision to extend our child and adolescent mental health services inreach pilot that was supposed to finish in July 2020; that will run now till the end of the year. And there are additional resources going into those pilots as we speak.
It's important that we don't medicalise the process of growing up—that is also a very important point. But we know that for some children who are under stress, we need timely and impactful interventions. Moving into higher education is yet again another potential trigger point: many people living away from home for the first time, having to establish new friendship groups as well as the academic pressures. And that's why we have made, in this year, £2 million available to the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales to support mental health projects in universities.
Wel, Nick, credaf ei bod yn wir dweud ein bod wedi gwneud rhywfaint o gynnydd wrth siarad am hunanladdiad, ond mae llawer iawn o stigma ynghlwm wrth hunanladdiad o hyd. Ac yn aml ceir cryn dipyn o nerfusrwydd ymhlith gweithwyr proffesiynol wrth siarad am faterion sy'n sensitif tu hwnt. Yn aml, maent yn ofni y gallai'r hyn y gallant ei ddweud waethygu'r sefyllfa, a dyna'r rheswm pam y gwnaethom gomisiynu'r adnoddau hyn yn y lle cyntaf er mwyn rhoi hyder i'n gweithwyr proffesiynol sy'n gweithio gyda phobl ifanc ei bod yn wirioneddol bwysig cael y sgyrsiau hyn—ni allwch wneud pethau'n waeth—a'u sgilio a'u grymuso i gael y trafodaethau hyn. Ond wrth gwrs, mae angen gwasanaethau cymorth arnom pan fydd athrawon a phobl ifanc yn nodi problem. Dyna pam rydym yn darparu adnoddau ychwanegol ar gyfer ein gwasanaeth cwnsela. Dyna pam rydym wedi cyhoeddi penderfyniad yn ddiweddar i ymestyn ein cynllun peilot mewngymorth ar gyfer gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl plant a'r glasoed a oedd i fod i ddod i ben ym mis Gorffennaf 2020; bydd hwnnw bellach yn parhau tan ddiwedd y flwyddyn. Ac mae adnoddau ychwanegol yn cael eu dyrannu i'r cynlluniau peilot hynny ar hyn o bryd.
Mae'n bwysig nad ydym yn meddygoliaethu'r broses o dyfu i fyny—mae hwnnw hefyd yn bwynt pwysig iawn. Ond gwyddom fod angen ymyriadau amserol ac effeithiol ar rai plant sydd o dan straen. Mae symud i addysg uwch yn sbardun posibl arall: llawer o bobl yn byw oddi cartref am y tro cyntaf, yn gorfod sefydlu grwpiau newydd o ffrindiau yn ogystal â'r pwysau academaidd. A dyna pam rydym wedi darparu £2 filiwn eleni i Gyngor Cyllido Addysg Uwch Cymru i gefnogi prosiectau iechyd meddwl mewn prifysgolion.
Minister, one of my staff members has just completed an ASIST training course—that is, an applied suicide intervention skills training. This involved having very uncomfortable conversations about suicide, and it's aiming to keep people safe for now. Are there any plans to roll this sort of scheme out with your own programmes to teachers and appropriate staff in Welsh schools?
Weinidog, mae un o fy aelodau staff newydd gwblhau cwrs Hyfforddiant Sgiliau Ymyriadau Hunanladdiad Cymwysedig. Roedd hyn yn golygu cael sgyrsiau anghyfforddus iawn am hunanladdiad, a'i nod yw cadw pobl yn ddiogel am nawr. A oes unrhyw gynlluniau i gyflwyno'r math hwn o gynllun gyda'ch rhaglenni eich hun i athrawon a'r staff priodol yn ysgolion Cymru?
Well, there are a plethora of training programmes and interventions that are available, and that sometimes causes problems for our schools—knowing which is the best training and the most appropriate and evidence-based approach to undertake. And that's why, as part of our whole-school approach to mental health, we are developing a toolkit for schools and a resource base for schools to try and simplify that process, so that they know what is available, what works and what there is a strong evidence base for. And, of course, we are making available additional resources for professional learning, thus creating the space for teaching professionals and other people working in our schools to undertake that training.
Wel, mae llu o raglenni hyfforddi ac ymyriadau ar gael, ac mae hynny weithiau'n achosi problemau i'n hysgolion—gwybod pa un yw'r hyfforddiant gorau a'r dull mwyaf addas a seiliedig ar dystiolaeth i'w ddefnyddio. Ac fel rhan o'n dull ysgol gyfan o ymdrin ag iechyd meddwl, dyna pam ein bod yn datblygu pecyn cymorth i ysgolion a sylfaen adnoddau i ysgolion er mwyn ceisio symleiddio'r broses honno, fel eu bod yn gwybod beth sydd ar gael, beth sy'n gweithio a'r hyn y mae sylfaen dystiolaeth gref ar ei gyfer. Ac wrth gwrs, rydym yn sicrhau bod adnoddau ychwanegol ar gael ar gyfer dysgu proffesiynol, a thrwy hynny, rydym yn creu lle i addysgwyr proffesiynol a phobl eraill sy'n gweithio yn ein hysgolion gyflawni'r hyfforddiant hwnnw.
7. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am ddysgu dinasyddiaeth ryngwladol mewn ysgolion? OAQ54605
7. Will the Minister make a statement on teaching international citizenship in schools? OAQ54605
Diolch yn fawr, Rhun. Learners currently have opportunities to study international citizenship through education for sustainable development and global citizenship, the Welsh baccalaureate, and personal and social education. Ensuring that learners become ethical, informed citizens, who are ready to be citizens of Wales and the world, is, of course, one of our four purposes in our new curriculum.
Diolch yn fawr, Rhun. Ar hyn o bryd, mae cyfleoedd ar gael i ddysgwyr astudio dinasyddiaeth ryngwladol drwy addysg ar gyfer datblygu cynaliadwy a dinasyddiaeth fyd-eang, bagloriaeth Cymru, ac addysg bersonol a chymdeithasol. Mae sicrhau bod dysgwyr yn dod yn ddinasyddion moesegol, gwybodus, sy'n barod i fod yn ddinasyddion Cymru a'r byd, wrth gwrs, yn un o'n pedwar diben yn ein cwricwlwm newydd.
Diolch. Mae'r cwestiwn atodol dwi am ei ofyn ychydig yn wahanol i'r un roeddwn i wedi'i fwriadu yn wreiddiol. Dwi'n falch o weld y Gweinidog cysylltiadau rhyngwladol wrth eich ymyl chi. Mi oedd y cwestiwn gwreiddiol yn deillio o gyfarfod y cawsom ni o'r grŵp trawsbleidiol dwi'n ei gadeirio, Cymru Ryngwladol, lle roedden ni'n trafod strategaeth ryngwladol drafft y Llywodraeth. A'r cwestiwn oedd: yng nghyd-destun Brexit a'r drafodaeth honno, sut allwn ni werthu strategaeth ryngwladol i bobl sydd, efallai, ddim eisiau bod yn rhyngwladol? Mae'r cwestiwn hwnnw yn sefyll, ond beth dwi am fynd ar ei ôl, yn hytrach—ac mae newid pwyslais oherwydd yr hyn rydyn ni wedi'i glywed heddiw, y newyddion erchyll am 39 o bobl yn cael eu canfod yn farw mewn lori a oedd wedi pasio drwy Gaergybi. Mae rhai o'r sylwadau dwi wedi'u darllen am y digwyddiad yn erchyll. Maen nhw'n nodweddu, dwi'n meddwl, y diffyg goddefgarwch sydd wedi bod yn nodwedd o'r disgẃrs cyhoeddus dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf.
Felly, sut allwn ni sicrhau bod y math o addysg ddinasyddiaeth sydd yn cael ei chyflwyno yn ysgolion Cymru yn gwneud llawer mwy i ddysgu pobl am le Cymru yn y byd—perthynas Cymru â'r byd? Sut mae pobl yn cyd-berthyn i'w gilydd, fel nad ydy pobl yn teimlo'i bod hi'n dderbyniol i fynd ar gyfryngau cymdeithasol a gwneud datganiadau cyhoeddus, cwbl erchyll, am ddigwyddiadau fel yr hyn rydyn ni wedi clywed amdano fo heddiw?
Thank you. My supplementary question is slightly different to the one that I had originally intended to ask. I'm pleased to see the Minister for international relations by your side. The original question emerged from a meeting that we had of the cross-party group that I chair, Wales International, where we were discussing the draft international strategy produced by Government. And the question was: in the context of Brexit and that discussion, how can we sell the international strategy to those people who, perhaps, don’t want to work internationally? That question still stands, but what I want to pursue instead—and I changed the emphasis because of what we’ve heard today, that appalling news about 39 people who were found dead in a lorry container that had passed through Holyhead. Some of the comments that I’ve read about the incident are appalling. They characterise the lack of tolerance that has been part of the public discourse over the past few years.
So, how can we ensure that the kind of citizenship education that is presented in Welsh schools does far more to teach people about Wales’s place in the world, its relationship with the rest of the world, and how people interact with each other, so that people don’t feel that it is acceptable to go on social media and make public statements that are quite, quite appalling about events such as the one we’ve heard about today?
Rhun, there are no adequate words to express the horror of the discovery of those individuals in the back of that lorry. It is a truly shocking thing to have happened, and then to have that reinforced by the comments that you have referred to—I have not seen them myself, but I can well imagine what they have said. As I said in answer to your original question, we are moving to a purpose-led curriculum that articulates the kind of citizens, the attributes, the type of people that we want to emerge as a result of their time in the Welsh education system, and I want them to be those ethical and informed citizens of Wales and the world.
Your comments come on top of the question that was raised by your colleague Bethan Sayed around the report today into racism in our universities. We have a problem here in Wales and we have to use all aspects of Welsh Government public policy to be able to address that. There is a huge responsibility on education to ensure that these views are challenged when they're expressed, and we can give children the opportunity to understand and to develop empathy and respect, and the reasons why those 39 people felt desperate enough to climb into the back of the lorry in the first place.
Rhun, nid oes geiriau a all fynegi pa mor arswydus yw'r newyddion am ddarganfod yr unigolion hynny yng nghefn y lori honno. Mae'n beth gwirioneddol frawychus, a chael hynny wedi'i atgyfnerthu gan y sylwadau y cyfeirioch chi atynt—nid wyf wedi eu gweld fy hun, ond gallaf ddychmygu'r hyn y maent wedi'i ddweud. Fel y dywedais wrth ateb eich cwestiwn gwreiddiol, rydym yn newid i gwricwlwm a arweinir gan ddiben sy'n diffinio'r math o ddinasyddion, y priodoleddau, y math o bobl rydym am eu gweld o ganlyniad i'w profiad yn system addysg Cymru, ac rwyf am iddynt fod yn bobl foesegol a gwybodus sy'n ddinasyddion Cymru a'r byd.
Daw eich sylwadau ar ôl y cwestiwn a ofynnwyd gan eich cyd-Aelod, Bethan Sayed, ynglŷn â'r adroddiad heddiw ar hiliaeth yn ein prifysgolion. Mae gennym broblem yma yng Nghymru ac mae'n rhaid i ni ddefnyddio pob agwedd ar bolisi cyhoeddus Llywodraeth Cymru i allu mynd i'r afael â hi. Mae cyfrifoldeb enfawr ar addysg i sicrhau bod y safbwyntiau hyn yn cael eu herio pan gânt eu mynegi, a gallwn roi cyfle i blant ddeall a datblygu empathi a pharch, a'r rhesymau pam roedd y 39 o bobl hynny'n teimlo'n ddigon anobeithiol i ddringo i gefn y lori yn y lle cyntaf.
8. Pa gymorth sydd ar gael ar gyfer disgyblion ag anghenion dysgu ychwanegol yng Nghymru? OAQ54570
8. What support is available for pupils with additional learning needs in Wales? OAQ54570
Thank you, Mark. Local authorities are responsible for providing a suitable education for all children and young people, including those with additional learning needs. Our ambitious additional learning needs reforms will completely overhaul the system for supporting learners with ALN, and it will drive improvements and ensure that all learners achieve their full potential, whatever that is.
Diolch, Mark. Mae awdurdodau lleol yn gyfrifol am ddarparu addysg addas i bob plentyn a pherson ifanc, gan gynnwys y rheini ag anghenion dysgu ychwanegol. Bydd ein diwygiadau uchelgeisiol mewn perthynas ag anghenion dysgu ychwanegol yn ailwampio'r system ar gyfer cefnogi dysgwyr ag ADY yn llwyr, a bydd yn gyrru gwelliannau ac yn sicrhau bod pob dysgwr yn cyflawni eu potensial llawn, beth bynnag y bo.
Thank you. At the beginning of this month, all Members received an e-mail from the Royal College of Speech and Language Therapists highlighting the risks if speech and language communication is underdeveloped. I'll mention a couple of things they did, but, for example, without effective help, one in three children with speech, language and communication difficulties will need treatment for mental health; 88 per cent of long-term unemployed young men have speech, language and communication needs; and up to 60 per cent of young people in the youth justice estate have similar speech, language and communication needs.
It's nearly two decades since I fought this battle on behalf of one of my children to get interventions that he was otherwise being denied, and two decades later, we're still receiving e-mails with these horrifying statistics. Beyond the ALN Act, what specific action can you take with your colleagues—because this is a cross-departmental issue—to recognise the essential need for speech and language therapy for a wide range of children in the school environment, also recognising Welsh data on the economic value of speech and language therapy, that every £1 invested in enhanced speech and language therapy generates £6.43 through increased lifetime earnings, because it enables access to the curriculum and creates opportunities for individuals, and that every £1 invested in enhanced speech and language therapy for autistic pupils generates £1.46 through lifetime cost savings created by improved communication?
Diolch. Ar ddechrau’r mis, derbyniodd yr holl Aelodau e-bost gan Goleg Brenhinol y Therapyddion Lleferydd ac Iaith a oedd yn tynnu sylw at y risgiau os yw cyfathrebu lleferydd ac iaith heb ddatblygu'n llawn. Rwyf am sôn am ychydig o bethau a wnaethant, ond er enghraifft, heb gymorth effeithiol, bydd angen triniaeth iechyd meddwl ar un o bob tri phlentyn ag anawsterau lleferydd, iaith a chyfathrebu; mae gan 88 y cant o ddynion ifanc sy'n ddi-waith yn hirdymor anghenion lleferydd, iaith a chyfathrebu; ac mae gan hyd at 60 y cant o bobl ifanc mewn sefydliadau cyfiawnder ieuenctid anghenion lleferydd, iaith a chyfathrebu tebyg.
Mae bron i ddau ddegawd wedi bod ers i mi ymladd y frwydr hon ar ran un o fy mhlant er mwyn sicrhau ei fod yn cael yr ymyriadau a oedd yn cael eu gwrthod iddo fel arall, a ddau ddegawd yn ddiweddarach, rydym yn dal i dderbyn e-byst gyda'r ystadegau arswydus hyn. Y tu hwnt i'r Ddeddf ADY, pa gamau penodol y gallwch eu cymryd gyda'ch cyd-Aelodau—gan fod hwn yn fater trawsadrannol—i gydnabod yr angen hollbwysig am therapi lleferydd ac iaith ar gyfer ystod eang o blant yn amgylchedd yr ysgol, gan gydnabod data Cymreig hefyd ar werth economaidd therapi lleferydd ac iaith, fod pob £1 a fuddsoddir mewn gwell therapi lleferydd ac iaith yn cynhyrchu £6.43 drwy enillion uwch dros oes gyfan, gan ei fod yn galluogi mynediad at y cwricwlwm ac yn creu cyfleoedd i unigolion, a bod pob £1 a fuddsoddir mewn gwell therapi lleferydd ac iaith ar gyfer disgyblion awtistig yn cynhyrchu £1.46 drwy arbedion cost dros oes gyfan yn sgil gwell cyfathrebu?
Well, Mark, I would not want to take issue with you at all about the importance of developing oracy skills at the earliest possible age for our children. We know that a good basis in speaking skills is a platform to success later on in their educational journey.
You say that, apart from the ALN programme, what else is going on, but the ALN transformation programme is absolutely crucial to driving forward better interdepartmental working between education and healthcare professionals, ensuring earlier identification of additional learning needs for every child and creating the expectation, and delivering on that expectation, that those services will be available. I continue to have discussions with colleagues in health—and the Minister for health is in his seat—about how we can ensure, when a school identifies a healthcare need for a particular child, that that support will be there at the appropriate time to influence positive outcomes in terms of learning for that child.
Wel, Mark, nid wyf am ddadlau â chi o gwbl ynghylch pwysigrwydd datblygu sgiliau llafaredd ar yr oedran cynharaf posibl i'n plant. Gwyddom fod sylfaen dda mewn sgiliau siarad yn arwain at lwyddiant yn nes ymlaen yn eu taith addysgol.
Ar wahân i'r rhaglen ADY, rydych yn gofyn beth arall sy'n digwydd, ond mae'r rhaglen drawsnewid ADY yn gwbl hanfodol i hybu gwaith rhyngadrannol gwell rhwng addysgwyr proffesiynol a gweithwyr gofal iechyd proffesiynol, gan sicrhau bod anghenion dysgu ychwanegol ar gyfer pob plentyn yn cael eu nodi'n gynharach a chreu'r disgwyliad, a bodloni'r disgwyliad hwnnw, y bydd y gwasanaethau hynny ar gael. Rwy’n parhau i gael trafodaethau gyda chyd-Aelodau ym maes iechyd—ac mae’r Gweinidog iechyd yn ei sedd—ynglŷn â sut y gallwn sicrhau, pan fydd ysgol yn nodi bod gan blentyn penodol angen gofal iechyd, y bydd y gefnogaeth honno yno ar yr adeg briodol i sicrhau canlyniadau cadarnhaol i'r plentyn hwnnw mewn perthynas â dysgu.
Ac, yn olaf, Alun Davies.
Finally, Alun Davies.
Thank you very much, Presiding Officer, and can I place my personal interest on the record? You said, Minister, in answer to Mark Isherwood, that all local authorities have responsibility for delivering on this agenda. You know and I know, from your constituency workload and from my constituency workload, that children with additional learning needs are being failed every day of the week in schools in this country. You know and I know that local authorities are not delivering on the support that children with additional learning needs require to fulfil their potential. You and I worked together in Government to deliver a restructured and a new, transformed process for supporting children and young people with additional learning needs. Do you not believe now, Minister, that the time is here for us to ensure that there are ring-fenced resources, specific streams of funding, available to schools to deliver additional learning needs education? Because I do not have the confidence—. My personal experience and, I think, your personal experience, as the Member for Brecon and Radnorshire, tells you and tells me that the current system, even a reformed system, unless there is additional funding in it, specifically ring-fenced funding, will not deliver.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Lywydd, ac a gaf fi ddatgan buddiant personol? Fe ddywedoch chi, Weinidog, mewn ateb i Mark Isherwood, fod gan bob awdurdod lleol gyfrifoldeb am gyflawni'r agenda hon. Fe wyddoch chi ac fe wn i, o'ch llwyth gwaith etholaethol chi ac o fy llwyth gwaith etholaethol innau, fod plant ag anghenion dysgu ychwanegol yn cael cam bob dydd o'r wythnos mewn ysgolion yn y wlad hon. Fe wyddoch chi ac fe wn i nad yw awdurdodau lleol yn darparu'r gefnogaeth sydd ei hangen ar blant ag anghenion dysgu ychwanegol i gyflawni eu potensial. Fe fuoch chithau a minnau'n gweithio gyda'n gilydd yn y Llywodraeth i ddarparu proses newydd wedi'i thrawsnewid a'i hailstrwythuro ar gyfer cefnogi plant a phobl ifanc ag anghenion dysgu ychwanegol. Onid ydych yn credu bellach, Weinidog, ei bod yn bryd inni sicrhau bod adnoddau wedi'u clustnodi, ffrydiau cyllid penodol, ar gael i ysgolion fel y gallant ddarparu addysg anghenion dysgu ychwanegol? Oherwydd nid oes gennyf hyder—. Mae fy mhrofiad personol, a'ch profiad personol chithau, rwy'n credu, fel yr Aelod dros Frycheiniog a Sir Faesyfed, yn dweud wrthych chi ac yn dweud wrthyf finnau na fydd y system bresennol, hyd yn oed system ddiwygiedig, oni bai fod cyllid ychwanegol ynddi, cyllid wedi’i glustnodi'n benodol, yn llwyddo i wneud hynny.
Presiding Officer, the Member refers to specific incidents in Powys. Members will be aware, if they have an interest in education in Powys, of the findings of the recent Estyn report into the performance of the local education authority. Special mention in that Estyn report was made of support for additional learning needs and special educational needs and the requirement of Powys County Council to do better in this regard. Welsh Government is continuing to discuss with Estyn and with Powys how best we will respond to the contents of that Estyn report, and I foresee an enhanced role for Welsh Government in seeking assurance from Powys around improvements as a result of the Estyn report. I continue to discuss with officials what more we can do on the financial side, on top of the £20 million that is already made available for the ALN transformation programme, to address these issues.
But let me be clear to every single local authority in Wales: whilst we wait for the implementation of the ALN Act, they have legal and statutory responsibilities to children in their schools now, and our expectation is that they will meet the statutory and legal requirements of them in supporting every individual child who has an additional learning need. They don't need to wait for the Act—they have legal responsibilities in the here and now, and I expect them to fulfil them.
Lywydd, mae'r Aelod yn cyfeirio at ddigwyddiadau penodol ym Mhowys. Bydd yr Aelodau'n ymwybodol, os oes ganddynt ddiddordeb mewn addysg ym Mhowys, o ganfyddiadau adroddiad diweddar Estyn ar berfformiad yr awdurdod addysg lleol. Roedd yr adroddiad hwnnw gan Estyn yn cynnwys cyfeiriad penodol at gefnogaeth i anghenion dysgu ychwanegol ac anghenion addysgol arbennig a'r angen i Gyngor Sir Powys wneud yn well yn hyn o beth. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn parhau i drafod gydag Estyn a Phowys ynghylch y ffordd orau o ymateb i gynnwys yr adroddiad hwnnw gan Estyn, ac rwy'n rhagweld rôl fwy i Lywodraeth Cymru wrth geisio sicrwydd gan Powys ynghylch gwelliannau o ganlyniad i adroddiad Estyn. Rwy’n parhau i drafod gyda swyddogion beth arall y gallwn ei wneud ar yr ochr ariannol, yn ychwanegol at yr £20 miliwn sydd eisoes ar gael ar gyfer y rhaglen drawsnewid ADY, er mwyn mynd i’r afael â’r materion hyn.
Ond gadewch imi ddweud yn glir wrth bob awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru: wrth inni aros i Ddeddf ADY gael ei rhoi ar waith, mae ganddynt gyfrifoldebau cyfreithiol a statudol am blant yn eu hysgolion yn awr, a'n disgwyliad yw y byddant yn bodloni eu gofynion statudol a chyfreithiol i gefnogi pob plentyn sydd ag angen dysgu ychwanegol. Nid oes angen iddynt aros am y Ddeddf—mae ganddynt gyfrifoldebau cyfreithiol yn awr, ac rwy'n disgwyl iddynt eu cyflawni.
Diolch i'r Gweinidog.
Thank you, Minister.
Yr eitem nesaf, felly, yw'r cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Neil Hamilton.
The next item is questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services, and the first question is from Neil Hamilton.
1. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am amseroedd aros yn adrannau achosion brys ysbytai Cymru? OAQ54596
1. Will the Minister provide an update on waiting times in Welsh hospital emergency departments? OAQ54596
Yes. This year has been the busiest on record for Welsh emergency care services. Last month was the busiest September on record for emergency department attendances and for the most urgent ambulance calls. Despite the 7 per cent rise in emergency department attendances compared to last September, we actually saw, treated or discharged more people within four hours, and the median wait was two hours and 35 minutes.
Gwnaf. Eleni fu'r flwyddyn brysuraf erioed ar gyfer gwasanaethau gofal brys Cymru. Y mis diwethaf oedd y mis Medi prysuraf erioed o ran mynychu adrannau brys ac o ran galwadau brys am ambiwlans. Er y cynnydd o 7 y cant yn y nifer a fynychodd adrannau brys o gymharu â'r mis Medi diwethaf, cafodd mwy o bobl eu gweld, eu trin neu eu rhyddhau gennym o fewn pedair awr, a'r amser aros canolrifol oedd dwy awr a 35 munud.
I thank the Minister for that reply, but can I supply a translation for the benefit of the Assembly of what he's just said? The figures released last Friday showed that waiting times in Welsh A&E departments are the worst on record. That is, more people than ever before are waiting longer than the target waiting time set by the Welsh NHS. Twenty-five per cent of admissions to A&E spent more than four hours waiting; the target was 5 per cent. Over 6 per cent of admissions spent more than 12 hours waiting; the target for that is zero. And that was in September, which is, of course, not going to be the biggest challenge in the winter. The Minister has said before that there are real people behind the figures, and he suggested that it was one of the things that keeps him awake at night. Can I suggest that one way to improve his sleep pattern, perhaps, is to resign his office and let somebody else have a go at improving things?
Diolch i'r Gweinidog am ei ateb, ond a gaf fi ddarparu cyfieithiad er budd y Cynulliad o'r hyn a ddywedodd? Dangosodd y ffigurau a gyhoeddwyd ddydd Gwener diwethaf mai'r amseroedd aros yn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys Cymru yw'r rhai gwaethaf erioed. Hynny yw, mae mwy o bobl nag erioed o'r blaen yn aros yn hwy na'r amser aros targed a osodwyd gan GIG Cymru. Treuliodd 25 y cant o bobl a dderbyniwyd i adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys fwy na phedair awr yn aros; y targed oedd 5 y cant. Treuliodd dros 6 y cant o bobl a dderbyniwyd fwy na 12 awr yn aros; y targed ar gyfer hynny yw sero. Ac roedd hynny ym mis Medi, wrth gwrs, ac nid hwnnw fydd mis mwyaf heriol y gaeaf. Mae’r Gweinidog wedi dweud o'r blaen fod pobl go iawn y tu ôl i’r ffigurau, ac awgrymodd fod hynny'n un o’r pethau sy’n ei gadw’n effro yn y nos. A gaf fi awgrymu mai un ffordd o wella ei batrwm cysgu, efallai, yw ymddiswyddo a gadael i rywun arall roi cynnig ar wella pethau?
Well, that's a fairly predictable and not at all helpful way to try and address a very problem that exists as we face into winter. There are challenges right across the UK system. I'm responsible for the challenges here in Wales. There are a range of measures that are already being taken—for example, work being taken in two boards with a particular challenge, both the Aneurin Bevan University Health Board, and Swansea, who are making use of GP services to assist with some of triage so those people who don't need to be in an emergency department aren't there, and, equally, that people aren't waiting longer than they'd want to be. So, I have an understanding of the very real challenges that our staff face in my regular engagement with them, and an understanding of the very real challenges that members of the public face in getting the care and the treatment and the dignity they deserve. I'm determined to do all I could and should do as a health Minister to improve the position as we face what will inevitably be a difficult winter.
Wel, mae honno'n ffordd eithaf rhagweladwy ac annefnyddiol o geisio mynd i'r afael â phroblem wirioneddol sy'n bodoli wrth inni wynebu'r gaeaf. Ceir heriau ar draws system gyfan y DU. Rwy'n gyfrifol am yr heriau yma yng Nghymru. Mae ystod o gamau eisoes yn cael eu cymryd—er enghraifft, y gwaith sy'n mynd rhagddo mewn ardaloedd dau fwrdd sy'n wynebu heriau penodol, sef Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Aneurin Bevan, ac Abertawe, sy'n defnyddio gwasanaethau meddygon teulu i gynorthwyo gyda rhywfaint o waith brysbennu fel nad yw'r bobl nad oes angen iddynt fod mewn adran achosion brys yno, ac yn yr un modd, nad yw pobl yn aros yn hwy nag y byddent yn dymuno aros. Felly, mae gennyf ddealltwriaeth o'r heriau real iawn y mae ein staff yn eu hwynebu wrth i mi ymgysylltu'n rheolaidd â hwy, a dealltwriaeth o'r heriau real iawn y mae aelodau'r cyhoedd yn eu hwynebu wrth cael y gofal a'r driniaeth a'r urddas y maent yn haeddu eu cael. Rwy'n benderfynol o wneud popeth y gallaf ac y dylwn ei wneud fel Gweinidog iechyd i wella'r sefyllfa wrth inni wynebu'r hyn a fydd, heb os, yn aeaf anodd.
Well, perhaps, Minister, part of the answer to this lies in what's happening in the minor injury units, and I look forward to a statement on that fairly shortly. But, in the meantime, I recently visited Bridgend's Princess of Wales Hospital to find out more about why the average time it takes an ambulance to hand over a patient is significantly longer than in other parts of Cwm Taf, and you may remember me raising this with you. Two things came to my attention—the first is that, while the patient may not be in the ambulance, they still remain in the charge of paramedics, in which case those patients are not added to the A&E waiting times, disguising the actual figures, and the second is—and I'm sure this is true of other hospitals—it's sometimes impossible to move patients to a ward elsewhere because there are medically fit people waiting to be discharged occupying acute beds while waiting for a care package, and that means that those individuals are waiting in A&E for follow-up medical treatment when they shouldn't be there. That's tying up A&E beds, and that means that the increasing number, as you say, of walk-in arrivals have to wait longer. The root of the problem still seems to be delayed transfer of care. You've invested in better working between health and social care so why aren't we feeling the benefits in A&E?
Wel, efallai, Weinidog, fod rhan o'r ateb i hyn yn ymwneud â beth sy'n digwydd yn yr unedau mân anafiadau, ac edrychaf ymlaen at ddatganiad ar hynny cyn bo hir. Ond yn y cyfamser, ymwelais yn ddiweddar ag Ysbyty Tywysoges Cymru, Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr i ddarganfod mwy ynglŷn â pham fod yr amser y mae'n ei gymryd ar gyfartaledd i ambiwlans drosglwyddo claf yn sylweddol hirach nag mewn rhannau eraill o Gwm Taf, ac efallai y cofiwch i mi godi hyn gyda chi. Daeth dau beth i fy sylw—y cyntaf yw, er nad yw'r claf yn yr ambiwlans o bosibl, maent yn dal i fod yng ngofal parafeddygon, ac os felly, ni chaiff y cleifion hynny eu hychwanegu at gofnodion amseroedd aros adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys, gan guddio'r ffigurau go iawn, a'r ail beth yw—ac rwy'n siŵr bod hyn yn wir am ysbytai eraill—weithiau mae'n amhosibl symud cleifion i ward yn rhywle arall am fod pobl sy'n ffit yn feddygol ac sy'n aros i gael eu rhyddhau yn gorwedd mewn gwelyau acíwt wrth aros am becyn gofal, a golyga hynny fod yr unigolion hynny'n aros yn yr adran damweiniau ac achosion brys am driniaeth feddygol ddilynol pan na ddylent fod yno. Mae hynny'n atal gwelyau adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys rhag cael eu defnyddio, a golyga hynny fod yn rhaid i'r nifer cynyddol, fel y dywedwch, o bobl sy'n cerdded i mewn yn gorfod aros am fwy o amser. Ymddengys mai gwraidd y broblem o hyd yw oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal. Rydych wedi buddsoddi mewn gwaith gwell rhwng iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, felly pam nad ydym yn teimlo'r manteision mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys?
Actually, on delayed transfers of care, we're at historic lows. When I became the Deputy Minister more than five years ago now, one of the subjects that I did address at that time was the challenge that we had in delayed transfers of care, and that was about bringing health and social care together, about recognising there is a shared challenge, not meeting them separately, and we have seen some sustained improvement. We're starting to see that creep back up, so there's work that I and the Deputy Minister will be doing with health boards and their partners. It is a whole health and social care system issue. That's why, of the £30 million that I made available across the health and social care system this winter, some of it went direct to health boards; £17 million of it, though, went to regional partnership boards to decide together how it should be used across the system. Because every time I visit a hospital and look at the front door, the reality is that I know—and I regularly raise it with each of the hospital directors; I ask how many medically fit patients there are and the challenge of moving them on. Sometimes, that is to the social care system. That is a big part of our challenge. But, equally, there are times when it's within another part of the national health service. So, it's about seeing the whole system, about understanding what more we can do to get people to the right point for the next stage of their care.
The other honest challenge is that we do genuinely have more people who are coming to our emergency departments who are seriously unwell, and, if you had a conversation with each of the health boards about the people coming into their emergency departments, they themselves would say that. They'd also tell you there are more people making their own way to emergency departments; you're having walk-ins who are significantly unwell. It's the challenge we have and it's our ability to keep on extending our ability to meet that right across the whole system that really matters.
Mewn gwirionedd, o ran oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal, rydym ar lefelau is nag erioed. Pan ddeuthum yn Ddirprwy Weinidog dros bum mlynedd yn ôl bellach, un o’r pynciau y cyfeiriais atynt bryd hynny oedd yr her a oedd yn ein hwynebu mewn perthynas ag oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal, ac roedd hynny’n ymwneud â dod ag iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol ynghyd, a chydnabod bod yno her a rennir, yn hytrach na mynd i'r afael â'r ddau beth ar wahân, ac rydym wedi gweld rhywfaint o welliant parhaus. Rydym yn dechrau gweld hynny'n gwella, felly bydd y Dirprwy Weinidog a minnau'n gwneud gwaith gyda byrddau iechyd a'u partneriaid. Mae'n fater i'r system iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol gyfan. Dyna pam, o'r £30 miliwn a ddarperais ar draws y system iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol y gaeaf hwn, fod peth ohono wedi mynd yn uniongyrchol i fyrddau iechyd; fodd bynnag, aeth £17 miliwn ohono i fyrddau partneriaeth rhanbarthol i benderfynu gyda'i gilydd sut y dylid ei ddefnyddio ar draws y system. Oherwydd bob tro y byddaf yn ymweld ag ysbyty ac yn edrych ar y drws blaen, y gwir amdani yw fy mod yn gwybod—ac rwy'n codi hyn yn rheolaidd gyda phob un o gyfarwyddwyr yr ysbyty; rwy'n gofyn faint o gleifion yno sy'n ffit yn feddygol a'r her o'u symud yn eu blaenau. Weithiau, mae'n golygu eu symud i'r system gofal cymdeithasol. Mae hynny'n rhan fawr o'n her. Ond yn yr un modd, mae hynny weithiau'n golygu eu symud i ran arall o'r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Felly, mae'n ymwneud ag edrych ar y system gyfan, a deall beth arall y gallwn ei wneud i sicrhau bod pobl yn cyrraedd y pwynt cywir ar gyfer cam nesaf eu gofal.
Yr her onest arall yw fod gennym fwy o bobl sy'n ddifrifol wael yn dod i'n hadrannau brys, a phe baech yn cael sgwrs gyda phob un o'r byrddau iechyd am y bobl sy'n dod i'w hadrannau brys, byddent hwythau'n dweud hynny. Byddent hwy hefyd yn dweud wrthych fod mwy o bobl yn gwneud eu ffordd eu hunain i adrannau brys; rydych yn cael pobl sâl iawn yn cerdded i mewn. Dyma'r her sy'n ein hwynebu a'n gallu i ddal ati i ehangu ein gallu i ddiwallu hynny ar draws y system gyfan sy'n bwysig mewn gwirionedd.
Minister, I appreciate your answers to Suzy Davies, particularly on delayed transfers of care, but also the answer you said to Neil Hamilton in relation to the type of individuals who are going there. But we have a problem, because we are having people who are going to A&E because the out-of-hours service is not delivering for them or they can't get a GP appointment or they now feel, in fact, that it's easier. Because I've been on the phone 45 minutes waiting to get hold of a GP just for an appointment for a five-year-old child. Now, this is causing people to go into A&E. So, the Choose Well agenda you had as to who you should go to is great, but the problem is that you can't get to them—they're not available. Can you therefore look at the actions taken to ensure that, if we are going to choose well, they are available to choose to go to, because that is the big problem?
Weinidog, rwy’n derbyn eich atebion i Suzy Davies, yn enwedig ynghylch oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal, ond hefyd yr ateb a roesoch i Neil Hamilton mewn perthynas â’r math o unigolion sy’n mynd yno. Ond mae gennym broblem, gan fod gennym bobl sy'n mynd i adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys gan nad yw'r gwasanaeth y tu allan i oriau yn cyflawni ar eu cyfer neu ni allant gael apwyntiad â'r meddyg teulu neu am eu bod yn teimlo bellach, mewn gwirionedd, fod hynny'n haws. Oherwydd rwyf innau wedi bod ar y ffôn am 45 munud yn aros i gael gafael ar feddyg teulu er mwyn trefnu apwyntiad i blentyn pump oed. Nawr, mae hyn yn achosi i bobl fynd i adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys. Felly, mae'r agenda Dewis Doeth a oedd gennych o ran pwy y dylech fynd atynt yn wych, ond y broblem yw na allwch eu cyrraedd—nid ydynt ar gael. A allwch edrych felly ar y camau a gymerwyd i sicrhau, os ydym am wneud dewis doeth, eu bod ar gael i chi ddewis mynd atynt, gan mai dyna'r broblem fawr?
We’ve got a variety of challenges to try and address, and something we are deliberately doing is exactly that on our Choose Well message, and to better equip the wider primary care team to do so, whether that’s the steps we’re taking on eye care, with the emergency eye care service we have, which they don’t have across the border—it’s widely recognised as being a positive—whether that’s about making better use of pharmacy, and the roll-out of Choose Pharmacy, and the minor ailments service is an important part of that. We’re diverting more and more people not just away from GPs and from the emergency department, but to somewhere that is actually appropriate for them to receive the right care and support. And also, as we continue to roll out 111, in each of the areas where the 111 roll-out has taken place, there is a more robust primary care system in hours and out of hours as a result. It is still, as I say, about our ability to constantly keep pace. So, yes, it is something that I look at. It is something that I will look at as I will be meeting a number of the health board and local government departments with the most significant pressures within their systems to understand what is taking place earlier on within the system and how the additional moneys we’ve made available are actually addressing the very real challenges that I know that you’ve set out.
Mae gennym amrywiaeth o heriau i geisio mynd i'r afael â hwy, a rhywbeth rydym yn ei wneud yn fwriadol yw hynny'n union ar ein neges Dewis Doeth, ac arfogi'r tîm gofal sylfaenol ehangach yn well i wneud hynny, boed yn gamau rydym yn eu cymryd ar ofal llygaid, gyda'r gwasanaeth gofal llygaid brys sydd gennym, rhywbeth nad oes ganddynt dros y ffin—ac mae cryn dipyn o gydnabyddiaeth fod hwnnw'n beth cadarnhaol—boed yn wneud gwell defnydd o fferylliaeth, a chyflwyno Dewis Fferyllfa, ac mae'r gwasanaeth mân anhwylderau yn rhan bwysig o hynny. Rydym yn dargyfeirio mwy a mwy o bobl, nid yn unig oddi wrth y meddygon teulu ac oddi wrth adrannau achosion brys, ond i rywle sy'n briodol iddynt dderbyn y gofal a'r gefnogaeth gywir. A hefyd, wrth i ni barhau i gyflwyno 111, ym mhob un o'r ardaloedd lle mae'r gwasanaeth 111 wedi'i gyflwyno, ceir system gofal sylfaenol fwy cadarn yn ystod oriau arferol a'r tu allan i oriau o ganlyniad i hynny. Mae'n dal i ymwneud, fel y dywedaf, â'n gallu i ddal i fyny'n gyson. Felly, ydy, mae'n rhywbeth rwy'n edrych arno. Mae'n rhywbeth y byddaf yn edrych arno wrth i mi gyfarfod â nifer o adrannau'r bwrdd iechyd a llywodraeth leol sy'n wynebu'r pwysau mwyaf sylweddol yn eu systemau i ddeall yr hyn sy'n digwydd yn gynharach yn y system, a sut y mae'r arian ychwanegol rydym wedi'i ddarparu yn mynd i'r afael â'r heriau real iawn a nodwyd gennych.
2. Sut y mae'r Gweinidog yn sicrhau bod cleifion yng Nghymru yn gallu cael triniaethau newydd ar gyfer canser? OAQ54603
2. How is the Minister ensuring access to new cancer treatments for patients in Wales? OAQ54603
Thank you. We have an absolute commitment in Wales to the provision of recommended and proven effective cancer treatments. This is achieved through the new treatment fund for medicines. By August of this year the new treatment fund had provided rapid access to 205 medicines, including 86 for cancer, and has cut the time it takes to provide newly-recommended medicines from an average of 90 days to just 12. Whilst there is much focus on new drugs, it is also worth recalling that surgery can be curative as a treatment for cancer. That is often not highlighted within this Chamber. That's why we continue to invest in both improvements in surgery as well, of course, as therapy provision.
Diolch. Rydym wedi ymrwymo'n llwyr yng Nghymru i ddarparu triniaethau canser a argymhellir ac y profwyd eu bod yn effeithiol. Cyflawnir hyn drwy'r gronfa triniaethau newydd ar gyfer meddyginiaethau. Erbyn mis Awst eleni, roedd y gronfa triniaethau newydd wedi darparu mynediad cyflym at 205 o feddyginiaethau, gan gynnwys 86 ar gyfer canser, ac mae wedi cwtogi'r amser y mae'n ei gymryd i ddarparu meddyginiaethau a argymhellir o'r newydd o 90 diwrnod ar gyfartaledd i ddim ond 12. Er bod llawer o ffocws ar gyffuriau newydd, mae'n werth cofio hefyd y gall llawfeddygaeth fod yn wellhaol fel triniaeth ar gyfer canser. Yn aml, nid yw hynny'n cael ei nodi yn y Siambr hon. Dyna pam rydym yn parhau i fuddsoddi mewn gwelliannau mewn llawfeddygaeth, yn ogystal â darparu therapi wrth gwrs.
Minister, I’ve been raising concerns about the individual patient funding process with you throughout your time as Minister. I did the same with your predecessor and the same with his predecessor too. My constituent, Gemma Williams, a young mother with two young children, has stage 3 breast cancer. Her oncologist wants to treat her with Kadcyla to prevent the progression of the disease. Like most patients told she needs a drug for a life-threatening illness, she and, apparently, her oncologist, thought it would be straightforward. Now, after two successive refusals by the IPFR panel in Gwent, Gemma is having to launch a fundraising campaign to raise the money to pay for her treatment. Now, even though the difference in cost between Kadcyla and the drugs she is on—which her clinician has acknowledged are unlikely to help her—is a small difference, she will, of course, have to fundraise the full cost of the treatment, some £45,000. Minister, I still don’t believe that the IPFR process is working for my constituents, and it certainly isn’t working for Gemma Williams. Can I ask you whether you can look again at this to ensure that all patients in Wales, including my constituents, are getting the access to the new treatments that their clinicians believe they need?
Weinidog, bûm yn lleisio pryderon wrthych am y broses gyllido cleifion unigol drwy gydol eich amser fel Gweinidog. Bûm yn gwneud yr un peth â'ch rhagflaenydd a'r un peth gyda'i ragflaenydd yntau hefyd. Mae gan fy etholwr, Gemma Williams, mam ifanc â dau o blant ifanc, ganser y fron cam 3. Mae ei honcolegydd yn awyddus i'w thrin gyda Kadcyla i atal y clefyd rhag gwaethygu. Fel y rhan fwyaf o gleifion sy'n clywed bod angen cyffur arnynt i drin salwch lle mae bywyd yn y fantol, roedd hi a'i honcolegydd, mae'n debyg, o dan yr argraff y byddai'n broses syml. Bellach, ar ôl cael ei gwrthod ddwywaith yn olynol gan y panel Ceisiadau Cyllido Cleifion Unigol yng Ngwent, mae'n rhaid i Gemma lansio ymgyrch i godi arian i dalu am ei thriniaeth. Nawr, er bod y gwahaniaeth yn y gost rhwng Kadcyla a'r cyffuriau y mae'n eu cymryd—sy'n annhebygol o'i helpu, yn ôl ei chlinigydd—yn wahaniaeth bach, bydd yn rhaid iddi hi, wrth gwrs, godi'r arian i dalu am gost lawn y driniaeth, tua £45,000. Weinidog, rwy'n dal i fod o'r farn nad yw proses y ceisiadau cyllido cleifion unigol yn gweithio i fy etholwyr, ac yn sicr, nid yw'n gweithio i Gemma Williams. A gaf fi ofyn i chi edrych eto ar hyn i sicrhau bod pob claf yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys fy etholwyr, yn cael mynediad at y triniaethau newydd y mae eu clinigwyr o'r farn sydd eu hangen arnynt?
Look, we had a review at the start of this Assembly term because of issues that Members around the Chamber have raised about the apparent inequalities in access, and people’s inability to understand the system. And, to be fair, the system wasn’t an easy one to understand for clinicians or indeed for members of the public. Following the review, we’ve implemented all of the 27 recommendations that came up, and it’s very clear now the clinician has to support the individual patient funding request to go to a review.
Now, I can’t comment on the individual circumstance that the Member is directly engaged with. Across the system, more than seven in 10 applications for medicines under the IPFR process are agreed. I think it would be helpful if we had yet another conversation with you about what’s happened in this case and about how the health board's IPFR process does and doesn’t work, and about the level of clarity in the explanation provided by both the health board and the clinician about any reasons for refusal and why that is. The awful truth is, from a whole-system point of view, you understand there will be times when there is a refusal to provide a treatment on the national health service. It is always a much more difficult matter to be the individual, to be told by one person in our healthcare system, ‘I think this is what you need’, and to be told overall by the system, ‘You still can’t have it’. I’m happy to sit down to try and understand what that looks like with your constituent, but I really think we need to go back to the clinicians making choices together with the health board, and have real clarity in the decision-making process.
Edrychwch, cawsom adolygiad ar ddechrau tymor y Cynulliad hwn oherwydd materion y mae Aelodau o bob rhan o'r Siambr wedi’u codi ynghylch yr anghydraddoldebau amlwg o ran mynediad, ac anallu pobl i ddeall y system. Ac a bod yn deg, nid oedd y system yn un hawdd i glinigwyr nac yn wir aelodau'r cyhoedd ei deall. Yn dilyn yr adolygiad, rydym wedi gweithredu pob un o'r 27 argymhelliad a nodwyd, ac mae'n amlwg iawn bellach fod yn rhaid i'r clinigydd gefnogi cais cyllido'r claf unigol er mwyn cael adolygiad.
Nawr, ni allaf wneud sylwadau ar yr amgylchiadau unigol y sonia'r Aelod amdanynt. Ar draws y system, mae mwy na saith cais o bob 10 am feddyginiaethau o dan broses y ceisiadau cyllido cleifion unigol yn cael eu derbyn. Credaf y byddai'n ddefnyddiol pe baem yn cael sgwrs arall gyda chi ynglŷn â'r hyn sydd wedi digwydd yn yr achos hwn ac ynglŷn â sut y mae proses ceisiadau cyllido cleifion unigol y bwrdd iechyd yn gweithio a ddim yn gweithio, ac ynglŷn â lefel yr eglurder o ran yr esboniad a ddarperir gan y bwrdd iechyd a'r clinigydd ynghylch unrhyw resymau dros wrthod a pham. Y gwir ofnadwy amdani yw, o safbwynt system gyfan, rydych yn deall y bydd yna adegau pan fydd y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yn gwrthod darparu triniaeth. Mae bob amser yn fater llawer anos i'r unigolyn sy'n cael gwybod gan un unigolyn yn ein system gofal iechyd, 'Rwy'n credu mai dyma sydd ei angen arnoch', a chael gwybod gan y system yn gyffredinol, 'Ni allwch ei gael'. Rwy'n fwy na pharod i geisio deall beth yw hynny gyda'ch etholwr, ond rwy'n credu o ddifrif fod angen i ni ddychwelyd at glinigwyr yn gwneud dewisiadau ar y cyd â'r bwrdd iechyd, a chael eglurder gwirioneddol yn y broses o wneud penderfyniadau.
Minister, in yesterday's business statement, I raised the issue of a constituent, Mr Jim Sweet, whose wife passed away on the day she was going to begin treatment for stage 4 ovarian cancer—clearly, a very sensitive issue. There are many people involved, many people suffering from ovarian cancer in Wales, and part of the problem with this cancer is that early diagnosis before stage 4 is more difficult because the disease masquerades as other conditions such as irritable bowel syndrome. So, I wonder if you could tell us what actions you're taking to try and support more research into this particular form of cancer, not as often spoken about as other types of cancer are, but one which leaves victims and families of victims of the disease really struggling with this cancer quite late on in a diagnosis situation, and I think they look to the Assembly and the Welsh Government to see if the situation can be eased a little bit for them.
Weinidog, yn y datganiad busnes ddoe, codais fater etholwr, Mr Jim Sweet, a gollodd ei wraig ar y diwrnod roedd hi'n mynd i ddechrau triniaeth ar gyfer canser yr ofari cam 4—yn amlwg, mater sensitif iawn. Mae llawer o bobl yn y sefyllfa hon, llawer o bobl yn dioddef o ganser yr ofari yng Nghymru, a rhan o'r broblem gyda'r canser hwn yw bod diagnosis cynnar cyn cam 4 yn anos am fod y clefyd yn edrych fel cyflyrau eraill, fel syndrom coluddyn llidus. Felly, tybed a allech ddweud wrthym pa gamau rydych yn eu cymryd i geisio cefnogi mwy o ymchwil i'r math penodol hwn o ganser, nad yw'n cael ei drafod mor aml â mathau eraill o ganser, ond mae'n un sy'n golygu bod dioddefwyr y clefyd a theuluoedd y dioddefwyr mewn sefyllfaoedd anodd iawn ar ôl cael diagnosis eithaf hwyr o'r canser hwn, a chredaf eu bod yn edrych at y Cynulliad a Llywodraeth Cymru i weld a ellir lliniaru eu sefyllfa i raddau.
There are a range of cancer groups taking part in the cancer alliance, including those interested in ovarian cancer, and it's part of our research, interest and activity. I'll happily write to the Member with specifics on what we're doing in the research activity in this area, but we're not in control of all that research activity, of course; that depends on where those clinical studies do and don't take place, and the collaboration that takes place right across the UK healthcare and university sectors as well. But I'll happily provide the Member with some more of what I hope will be helpful detail about the nature of that research here in Wales.
Mae ystod o grwpiau canser yn rhan o'r gynghrair canser, gan gynnwys y rhai sydd â diddordeb mewn canser yr ofari, ac mae'n rhan o'n hymchwil, ein diddordeb a'n gweithgarwch. Rwy'n fwy na pharod i ysgrifennu at yr Aelod gyda manylion penodol ynglŷn â'r hyn rydym yn ei wneud o ran gweithgarwch ymchwil yn y maes hwn, ond nid ydym yn rheoli'r holl weithgarwch ymchwil hwnnw, wrth gwrs; mae hynny'n dibynnu ar ble mae'r astudiaethau clinigol hynny'n digwydd a ddim yn digwydd, a'r cydweithredu sy'n digwydd ar draws sectorau gofal iechyd a phrifysgolion y DU hefyd. Ond rwy'n fwy na pharod i ddarparu mwy o fanylion defnyddiol, gobeithio, am natur y gwaith ymchwil hwnnw yma yng Nghymru i'r Aelod.
Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Angela Burns.
Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Conservative spokesperson, Angela Burns.
Diolch, Presiding Officer. Minister, you'll be very familiar with the core principles of NHS Wales, and I'm sure that, like me, you will have read the various mission statements and heard the aims being promoted by health boards. Ambitions such as putting people at the heart of everything we do, and caring for people, keeping people well, and my personal favourite and the new mantra that's often quoted at me now is 'to be kind'. And the principles themselves make much of putting patients and users of the service first, then learning from experience, and so on.
My constituent, Georgina, was scheduled for an urgent spinal operation in January of this year. Without it, her spine would deteriorate to such an extent that her temporary paralysis would become permanent. From January, Georgina's operation was cancelled five times by Swansea Bay University Health Board, until we had a result last week, and a result pretty much because members of my staff camped on the door of that hospital. Not only was the quality of her life going forward compromised, but, and I'm now quoting directly from a letter from a consultant who says,
'I regret to inform you that the situation with access to spinal surgery in Swansea is creating such delays that I am witnessing people coming to harm. These cases have been appropriately reported as they occur.'
This is deeply concerning, Minister, for clinical safety. I don't think this is a service that adheres to the principles and mission statements often touted by NHS Wales and our health boards. Do you?
Diolch, Lywydd. Weinidog, fe fyddwch yn gyfarwydd iawn ag egwyddorion craidd GIG Cymru, ac rwy'n siŵr eich bod chithau, fel finnau, wedi darllen y gwahanol ddatganiadau cenhadaeth ac wedi clywed y nodau sy'n cael eu hyrwyddo gan y byrddau iechyd. Uchelgeisiau fel sicrhau bod pobl wrth wraidd popeth a wnawn, a gofalu am bobl, cadw pobl yn iach, a fy ffefryn personol a'r mantra newydd a ddyfynnir yn aml wrthyf bellach yw 'bod yn garedig'. Ac mae'r egwyddorion eu hunain yn sôn llawer am roi cleifion a defnyddwyr gwasanaeth yn gyntaf, a dysgu o brofiad, ac ati.
Roedd llawdriniaeth asgwrn cefn frys wedi'i threfnu ar gyfer fy etholwr, Georgina, ym mis Ionawr eleni. Hebddi, byddai ei hasgwrn cefn yn dirywio i'r fath raddau fel y byddai ei pharlys dros dro yn dod yn barhaol. O fis Ionawr ymlaen, cafodd llawdriniaeth Georgina ei chanslo pum gwaith gan Fwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Bae Abertawe, tan inni gael canlyniad yr wythnos diwethaf, a hynny i raddau helaeth am fod aelodau o fy staff wedi gwersylla wrth ddrws yr ysbyty hwnnw. Nid yn unig fod ansawdd ei bywyd yn y dyfodol wedi'i gyfaddawdu, ond, a dyfynnaf yn uniongyrchol o lythyr gan feddyg ymgynghorol sy’n dweud,
Mae'n ddrwg gennyf roi gwybod i chi fod y sefyllfa o ran mynediad at lawdriniaeth asgwrn cefn yn Abertawe yn creu cymaint o oedi fel fy mod yn gweld pobl yn cael niwed. Adroddwyd yn briodol am yr achosion hyn wrth iddynt ddigwydd.
Mae hyn yn peri cryn bryder ynghylch diogelwch clinigol, Weinidog. Ni chredaf fod hwn yn wasanaeth sy'n cadw at yr egwyddorion a'r datganiadau cenhadaeth sy'n cael eu crybwyll yn aml gan GIG Cymru a'n byrddau iechyd. A ydych chi?
Well, obviously, I'm not aware of the individual circumstances the Member has referred to, but I wouldn't try to defend five cancellations for serious surgery. I'd want to understand what's happened and why. And, in each of these cases where our system doesn't deliver the outcomes in the timely manner that we'd want, there is always learning for what to do in the future, as well as a need to reflect back to that person and be honest about the fact that they haven't had the care or support that we would want them to have. But if the Member wants to write to me with more specific details, I'll happily look at it in more detail to understand what has happened in this case, as well as what that tells us in the future. And of course I'm concerned that an individual clinician says that people are coming to harm.
Wel, yn amlwg, nid wyf yn ymwybodol o'r amgylchiadau unigol y cyfeiria'r Aelod atynt, ond ni fuaswn yn ceisio amddiffyn achos o ganslo llawdriniaeth ddifrifol bum gwaith. Buaswn yn awyddus i ddeall beth sydd wedi digwydd a pham. Ac ym mhob un o'r achosion hyn lle nad yw ein system yn cyflawni'r canlyniadau y byddem yn dymuno'u cael mewn modd amserol, mae gwersi i'w dysgu bob amser ynglŷn â beth i'w wneud yn y dyfodol, yn ogystal ag angen i roi gwybod i'r unigolyn dan sylw a bod yn onest am y ffaith nad ydynt wedi cael y gofal na'r gefnogaeth y byddem am iddynt eu cael. Ond os dymuna'r Aelod ysgrifennu ataf gyda manylion mwy penodol, rwy'n fwy na pharod i ystyried hynny'n fwy manwl er mwyn deall beth sydd wedi digwydd yn yr achos hwn, yn ogystal â'r hyn y mae hynny'n ei ddweud wrthym yn y dyfodol. Ac wrth gwrs, rwy'n poeni bod un clinigydd yn dweud bod pobl yn cael niwed.
Minister, my constituent, Mr Chell, was 91 years old. He fell in St Non's ward, which is situated opposite the main Withybush hospital, and, for those of you who may not know, the distance would be roughly the same from this Chamber to the fifth floor of Tŷ Hywel. Poor Mr Chell, already unwell and very frail, with the added complications of three fractures of the hip, waited on the floor of St Non's ward for five hours until an ambulance came to transport him the 380 yards to Withybush. Mr Chell was then forced to wait in the ambulance for a further two hours because of delays with ambulance handovers. Now, following a freedom of information request, I found out that, at the same time that poor Mr Chell was trying to get to Withybush, there were 13 ambulances waiting to offload at Withybush. I don't think that this is a service that adheres to the principles and mission statements often touted by that particular health board, and by NHS Wales. What do you say to Mr Chell's family, and do you think that this is acceptable service?
Weinidog, roedd fy etholwr, Mr Chell, yn 91 oed. Syrthiodd ar ward Santes Non, sydd gyferbyn â phrif adeilad ysbyty Llwynhelyg, ac i'r rhai ohonoch nad ydych yn gwybod, efallai, byddai'r pellter fwy neu lai yr un peth â'r pellter rhwng y Siambr hon a phumed llawr Tŷ Hywel. Bu Mr Chell druan, a oedd eisoes yn sâl ac yn fregus iawn, gyda chymhlethdodau ychwanegol tri thoriad i'w glun, yn aros ar lawr ward Santes Non am bum awr tan i ambiwlans ddod i'w gludo'r 380 llath i ysbyty Llwynhelyg. Yna, bu'n rhaid i Mr Chell aros yn yr ambiwlans am ddwy awr arall oherwydd oedi wrth drosglwyddo o ambiwlansys. Nawr, yn dilyn cais rhyddid gwybodaeth, darganfûm, tra bu Mr Chell druan yn ceisio cyrraedd ysbyty Llwynhelyg, fod 13 ambiwlans yn aros i drosglwyddo cleifion yn ysbyty Llwynhelyg. Ni chredaf fod hwn yn wasanaeth sy'n glynu at yr egwyddorion a'r datganiadau cenhadaeth sy'n cael eu crybwyll yn aml gan y bwrdd iechyd penodol hwnnw, a GIG Cymru. Beth a ddywedwch wrth deulu Mr Chell, ac a ydych yn credu bod hwn yn wasanaeth derbyniol?
Again, I can't obviously comment on an individual case that I haven't heard about before. But, again, I'm not going to try and defend what doesn't sound like appropriate care and what doesn't sound like the sort of experience or outcome that any of us would want to have. I'm interested in understanding the individual's circumstances and what that tells us about the whole system. And, as you know, it is entirely possible to have a very poor experience, and yet the system overall delivers high-quality care the overwhelming majority of the time. We know from the national survey that most people's experience of the health service, in hospital or in primary care, much more than 90 per cent of the time, is a very positive one. That does not mean that we ignore those cases where that doesn't happen, and it does not mean we ignore the pressure within our system, and, of course, our responsibility to improve that.
Unwaith eto, yn amlwg, ni allaf wneud sylwadau ar achos unigol nad wyf wedi clywed amdano o'r blaen. Ond unwaith eto, nid wyf yn mynd i geisio amddiffyn yr hyn nad yw'n swnio fel gofal priodol a'r hyn nad yw'n swnio fel y math o brofiad neu ganlyniad y byddai unrhyw un ohonom yn dymuno'i gael. Mae gennyf ddiddordeb mewn deall amgylchiadau'r unigolyn a beth y mae hynny'n ei ddweud wrthym am y system gyfan. Ac fel y gwyddoch, mae'n gwbl bosibl cael profiad gwael iawn, ac eto mae'r system yn gyffredinol yn darparu gofal o ansawdd uchel y rhan fwyaf o'r amser. Gwyddom o'r arolwg cenedlaethol fod profiad y rhan fwyaf o bobl o'r gwasanaeth iechyd, mewn ysbyty neu mewn gofal sylfaenol, yn un cadarnhaol iawn dros 90 y cant o'r amser. Nid yw hynny'n golygu ein bod yn anwybyddu'r achosion lle nad yw hynny'n digwydd, ac nid yw'n golygu ein bod yn anwybyddu'r pwysau yn ein system nac wrth gwrs ein cyfrifoldeb i wella hynny.
Minister, I've been an Assembly Member for 12 and a half years, and in that 12 and a half years I've had a pretty good life, actually. But one of my constituents—and you know her—Ayla Haines, in 12 and a half years has been treated more like a prisoner than a person in need of healthcare. She was a young lady when I first met her—she was 17 years old. She's now 25. She's in a secure unit in Northampton. She was sent there in 2016 to get her off her medications. Since she has been up there, her health has deteriorated. She is self-harming, she is losing weight, she has been assaulted, so she's fighting back, so now she's an assaulter as well as an assaulted. Staff know that she has OCD, for example, but tell her to hurry up and try to stop her from the middle of doing a routine, so she then gets worse. She's losing weight, she's on worse medication and tougher medication than she was on when she went there. Her physical being is being compromised.
But what really, really, really gets me, and why I've brought this to you today, is because I cannot, after 12 and a half years, get anybody to admit to saying, 'This problem, this girl, is on my desk and I'm going to sort out her issue.' I've written to you, the Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee, Hywel Dda University Health Board—all of them: 'Not my problem, not my problem, not my problem'. You, thankfully—thank you—have finally said her placement in Northampton is under the direct oversight of Hywel Dda health board. Right. Meetings are held; nobody from Wales goes, nobody from the health board goes, her advocate doesn't go, her parents aren't allowed to go—they've been marginalised. That girl's mental health, frail then, is even worse now, because she's over 200 miles away from her support network. Her family are not very wealthy, they live in Llansteffan, they cannot afford to go up there and see her. By the way, they're not allowed to, because they're told by Northampton that her telephone calls are monitored, they're cancelled at short notice, they're not allowed visits, they've got to be supervised. This girl is being driven into a small hole.
I don't know, clinically, what's wrong with her, but what I do know is that nobody here in Wales is actually taking the responsibility for monitoring that, for oversight, to make sure that she's constantly in the right place, being seen, with the right treatment, by the right people. Everyone's washed their hands of her—she's hundreds of miles away, she doesn't matter anymore. But she does matter—she matters to me, because I think of her most weeks. You said the other day, on television, that it keeps you awake at night, wondering about the waiting times for certain things. Well, Ayla Haines keeps me awake at night. She's 25; how many more years is she going to spend there? And all I want is one person in Wales who says, 'She is my job. I'm just going to check that she is having the best possible treatment'. The lack of accountability, the lack of responsibility—. And I'll tell you what it is: it's the consequence of being one. If you've got a big problem, like we have in Cwm Taf—task and finish groups, ad infinitum. But, as one poor person, there's no-one who'll actually advocate for them. Please, Minister, will you look at this? These health boards spend all their time telling us that they put people at the centre of what they do. But again, and again, and again, and again, they fail. That's three failures—everybody here will be able to tell you of more. At some point, we've got to hold these people to account. That's your job—please do so.
Weinidog, rwyf wedi bod yn Aelod Cynulliad ers 12 mlynedd a hanner, ac yn y 12 mlynedd a hanner hynny rwyf wedi cael bywyd eithaf da, mewn gwirionedd. Ond mae un o fy etholwyr—ac rydych yn ei hadnabod—Ayla Haines, mewn 12 mlynedd a hanner, wedi cael ei thrin yn debycach i garcharor na rhywun sydd angen gofal iechyd. Dynes ifanc oedd hi pan gyfarfûm â hi gyntaf—roedd hi'n 17 oed. Mae hi bellach yn 25. Mae hi mewn uned ddiogel yn Northampton. Fe’i hanfonwyd yno yn 2016 er mwyn iddi allu dod oddi ar ei meddyginiaethau. Ers iddi fod yno, mae ei hiechyd wedi dirywio. Mae hi'n hunan-niweidio, mae hi'n colli pwysau, mae rhywun wedi ymosod arni, felly mae hi'n ymladd yn ôl, ac mae hi bellach yn ymosodwr yn ogystal â rhywun yr ymosodwyd arni. Mae'r staff yn gwybod bod ganddi OCD, er enghraifft, ond maent yn dweud wrthi am frysio a cheisio ei hatal rhag cwblhau ei harferion, felly mae hi'n gwaethygu. Mae hi'n colli pwysau, mae hi ar feddyginiaeth waeth a meddyginiaeth gryfach na'r feddyginiaeth roedd hi arni pan aeth yno. Mae'n wynebu peryglon corfforol.
Ond yr hyn sy'n dân ar fy nghroen, a'r rheswm pam rwyf wedi tynnu eich sylw at hyn heddiw, yw oherwydd na allaf, ar ôl 12 mlynedd a hanner, gael unrhyw un i gyfaddef a dweud, 'Mae'r broblem hon, y ferch hon, ar fy nesg i ac rwy'n mynd i ddatrys ei phroblem.' Rwyf wedi ysgrifennu atoch chi, Pwyllgor Gwasanaethau Iechyd Arbenigol Cymru, Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Hywel Dda—pob un ohonynt: 'Nid fy mhroblem i, nid fy mhroblem i, nid fy mhroblem i'. Rydych chi, diolch byth—diolch—wedi dweud o'r diwedd fod ei lleoliad yn Northampton o dan oruchwyliaeth uniongyrchol bwrdd iechyd Hywel Dda. Iawn. Mae cyfarfodydd yn cael eu cynnal; nid oes unrhyw un o Gymru yn eu mynychu, nid oes unrhyw un o'r bwrdd iechyd yn mynd, nid yw ei heiriolwr yn mynd, ni chaniateir i'w rhieni fynd—maent wedi eu hymyleiddio. Mae iechyd meddwl y ferch honno, a oedd yn fregus bryd hynny, yn waeth byth bellach, gan ei bod dros 200 milltir oddi wrth ei rhwydwaith cymorth. Nid yw ei theulu'n gyfoethog iawn, maent yn byw yn Llansteffan, ni allant fforddio mynd yno i'w gweld. Gyda llaw, nid ydynt yn cael gwneud hynny, gan fod Northampton yn dweud wrthynt fod ei galwadau ffôn yn cael eu monitro, maent yn cael eu canslo ar fyr rybudd, nid ydynt yn cael ymweld â hi, mae'n rhaid i'w hymweliadau gael eu goruchwylio. Mae'r ferch hon yn cael ei gyrru i mewn i dwll bach.
Nid wyf yn gwybod, yn glinigol, beth sy'n bod arni, ond yr hyn a wn yw nad oes unrhyw un yma yng Nghymru yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am fonitro hynny, am oruchwylio, i sicrhau ei bod yn y lle iawn yn gyson, yn cael ei gweld, gyda'r driniaeth iawn, gan y bobl iawn. Mae pawb wedi golchi eu dwylo ohoni—mae hi gannoedd o filltiroedd i ffwrdd, nid oes ots amdani mwyach. Ond mae ots amdani—mae ots gennyf fi amdani, gan fy mod yn meddwl amdani y rhan fwyaf o wythnosau. Fe ddywedoch chi y diwrnod o'r blaen, ar y teledu, fod meddwl am yr amseroedd aros am rai pethau yn eich cadw'n effro'r nos. Wel, mae Ayla Haines yn fy nghadw innau'n effro'r nos. Mae hi'n 25; sawl blwyddyn arall mae hi'n mynd i'w treulio yno? A'r unig beth rwy'n dymuno'i weld yw un unigolyn yng Nghymru yn dweud, 'Fy nghyfrifoldeb i yw hi. Rwy'n mynd i wneud yn siŵr ei bod hi'n cael y driniaeth orau bosibl'. Mae'r diffyg atebolrwydd, y diffyg cyfrifoldeb—. Ac fe ddywedaf wrthych beth yw'r broblem: dyma ganlyniad bod yn un person. Os oes gennych broblem fawr, fel sydd gennym yng Nghwm Taf—grwpiau gorchwyl a gorffen hyd dragwyddoldeb. Ond fel un person tlawd, nid oes unrhyw un i ddadlau ar eu rhan mewn gwirionedd. Os gwelwch yn dda, Weinidog, a wnewch chi edrych ar hyn? Mae'r byrddau iechyd hyn yn treulio eu holl amser yn dweud wrthym eu bod yn rhoi pobl yn y canol yn yr hyn a wnânt. Ond eto, ac eto, ac eto, ac eto, maent yn methu. Dyna dair enghraifft o fethiant—gall pob un yma sôn wrthych am ragor. Ar ryw bwynt, mae'n rhaid inni ddwyn y bobl hyn i gyfrif. Dyna'ch swydd chi—gwnewch hynny.
Well, I think it was unfortunate in the reference to Cwm Taf, because we're dealing with a system failure there with real individual harm it's caused, and we're looking at it at a system level. There's never been an incident where I've tried to say that the healthcare system does not have responsibility to individuals throughout it, and I expect our system to be able to deal with those.
In the figures that I referred to earlier, about satisfaction with the health service, those themselves don't say that every single person says that every single interaction has left them satisfied. There is always learning in where things go wrong. And in the individual case that you referred to, again, you know that I can't comment on it. I am, of course, interested in every single person who has cause to complain and cause for concern about the health service. But it does not matter whether they are physically being treated or cared for in England or within Wales. I expect people who commission and have responsibility for that care to maintain their interest in the quality of the care that's being provided as well, because a number of the statements you've made today are of real concern, about the quality of care and about what the relevant inspectorates both here and in England should be interested in, given the seriousness that you've outlined.
I will check through my office about the interest that the health board continues to take and the responses to the concerns being raised by your constituent, her family and her advocates. I recognise that I have responsibility for the whole system, both the good and the part that needs improving. I don't walk away from that, and I'll certainly take up the individual matters. I'd be grateful if you could raise all three of them in writing with me and I'll make sure that they are dealt with.
Wel, credaf fod y cyfeiriad at Gwm Taf yn anffodus, gan ein bod yn ymdrin â methiant yn y system yno gyda'r niwed gwirioneddol y mae wedi'i achosi i unigolion, ac rydym yn ystyried y broblem ar lefel system. Nid oes digwyddiad wedi bod erioed lle rwyf wedi ceisio dweud nad oes gan y system gofal iechyd gyfrifoldeb am unigolion drwyddi draw, ac rwy'n disgwyl i'n system allu ymdrin â'r rheini.
Yn y ffigurau y cyfeiriais atynt yn gynharach, ynglŷn â boddhad â'r gwasanaeth iechyd, nid yw'r rheini ynddynt eu hunain yn dweud bod pob unigolyn yn dweud eu bod yn fodlon â phob un dim. Ceir gwersi i'w dysgu bob amser pan fo pethau'n mynd o chwith. Ac yn yr achos unigol y cyfeirioch chi ato, unwaith eto, fe wyddoch na allaf wneud sylwadau arno. Mae gennyf ddiddordeb, wrth gwrs, ym mhob unigolyn sydd â rheswm i gwyno a rheswm i bryderu am y gwasanaeth iechyd. Ond nid oes wahaniaeth a ydynt yn cael eu trin neu'n derbyn gofal yng Nghymru neu yn Lloegr. Rwy'n disgwyl i bobl sy'n comisiynu ac sy'n gyfrifol am y gofal hwnnw gynnal eu diddordeb yn ansawdd y gofal a ddarperir hefyd, gan fod nifer o'r datganiadau rydych wedi'u gwneud heddiw yn peri pryder gwirioneddol ynglŷn ag ansawdd y gofal ac ynglŷn â'r hyn a ddylai fod o ddiddordeb i'r arolygiaethau perthnasol yma ac yn Lloegr, o ystyried difrifoldeb yr hyn a ddisgrifiwyd gennych.
Drwy fy swyddfa, fe edrychaf i weld faint o sylw y mae'r bwrdd iechyd yn parhau i'w roi i hyn a'r ymatebion i'r pryderon a godwyd gan eich etholwr, ei theulu a'i heiriolwyr. Rwy'n cydnabod mai fi sy'n gyfrifol am y system gyfan, y rhannau da a'r rhannau y mae angen eu gwella. Nid wyf yn troi cefn ar hynny, a byddaf yn sicr yn mynd i'r afael â'r materion unigol. Buaswn yn ddiolchgar pe gallech ysgrifennu ataf gyda manylion am y tri mater, a byddaf yn sicrhau eu bod yn cael sylw.
Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Helen Mary Jones.
The Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Helen Mary Jones.
Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. I'd like to take the Minister back again to the situation in Cwm Taf. I am aware, of course, that a further statement was made to this Assembly a fortnight ago—I think it was a fortnight ago. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to be present then, but I have had the opportunity to read the Record. And I do accept, as the Minister said in his response to the remarks of my colleague Dr Dai Lloyd, that it isn't possible to entirely transform a culture in a matter of months, but I wonder if the Minister will accept that it's very difficult for people to understand why a service can't be made safe within six months. And can the Minister tell us today when he expects to be able to reassure the people of Merthyr Tydfil and the surrounding areas that that service is safe?
Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd. Hoffwn holi'r Gweinidog eto am y sefyllfa yng Nghwm Taf. Rwy'n ymwybodol, wrth gwrs, fod datganiad pellach wedi'i wneud i'r Cynulliad hwn bythefnos yn ôl—credaf mai pythefnos yn ôl y'i gwnaed. Yn anffodus, nid oedd modd i mi fod yn bresennol bryd hynny, ond rwyf wedi cael cyfle i ddarllen y Cofnod. Ac rwy'n derbyn, fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog yn ei ymateb i sylwadau fy nghyd-Aelod, Dr Dai Lloyd, nad yw'n bosibl trawsnewid diwylliant yn llwyr mewn ychydig fisoedd, ond tybed a wnaiff y Gweinidog dderbyn ei bod yn anodd iawn i bobl ddeall pam na ellir gwneud gwasanaeth yn ddiogel o fewn chwe mis. Ac a all y Gweinidog ddweud wrthym heddiw pryd y mae'n disgwyl gallu rhoi sicrwydd i bobl Merthyr Tudful a'r cyffiniau fod y gwasanaeth hwnnw'n ddiogel?
Well, I've set out a process of intervention to provide the appropriate reassurance that everyone would want to have, whether they live within the Cwm Taf area or not, about the safety and the prospects for the future of that service, and I've set out not just the independent oversight panel, but the work being done around the board. And I will make statements when I'm in a position to do so. It's really important that I don't give artificial timelines that are about the convenience for me, rather than actually providing the robust reassurance that people would expect and want to see. There's regular engagement that is ongoing between officials and the Government and the health board and between the oversight panel, and, with their next quarterly report, we'll have a view of what's happened within the last quarter as well. That's the honest and objective process set up and it's the one that I'll stick to.
Wel, rwyf wedi nodi proses o ymyrraeth i roi'r sicrwydd priodol y byddai pawb yn dymuno'i gael, p'un a'u bod yn byw yn ardal Cwm Taf ai peidio, ynghylch diogelwch y gwasanaeth hwnnw a'r rhagolygon ar gyfer ei ddyfodol, ac rwyf wedi nodi nid yn unig y panel trosolwg annibynnol, ond y gwaith sy'n mynd rhagddo o amgylch y bwrdd. A byddaf yn gwneud datganiadau pan fyddaf mewn sefyllfa i wneud hynny. Mae'n bwysig iawn nad wyf yn darparu amserlenni artiffisial sy'n gyfleus i mi, yn hytrach na darparu'r sicrwydd cadarn y byddai pobl yn ei ddisgwyl ac yn dymuno'i weld. Mae swyddogion a'r Llywodraeth a'r bwrdd iechyd a'r panel trosolwg yn parhau i ymgysylltu'n rheolaidd, a chyda'u hadroddiad chwarterol nesaf, bydd gennym syniad o'r hyn sydd wedi digwydd yn ystod y chwarter diwethaf hefyd. Dyna'r broses onest a gwrthrychol sydd wedi'i sefydlu a dyna'r un y byddaf yn cadw ati.
I accept what the Minister says, of course, about not wanting to create artificial timelines, but I certainly know that if I was a woman of child-bearing age living in that region, I would want to know that there was a timeline and that at some point I could expect that service to be safe.
I've received representations, and I know that other colleagues have, suggesting to me—well, proving to me—that the cultural issues, which again I accept can't be changed overnight, in Cwm Taf extend well beyond maternity services. I recently met a family who gave me evidence of grave issues regarding the treatment of both of their elderly parents separately in different parts of the Cwm Taf service over a period of a couple of years. Now, these issues raise similar themes as to some of the issues around women's experiences in the maternity service—issues around lack of respect, around not listening to patients and their families, lack of basic care, like supporting eating and drinking for older people. This family then went on to have a very unsatisfactory experience, again similar to some of those who used maternity services, of the complaints procedure. Can I ask the Minister today whether his current interventions that he has put in place in Cwm Taf will pick up wider concerns like these about culture within the organisation beyond maternity services? And does he accept that there may be a need for him to extend his intervention if such issues are made public?
Rwy’n derbyn yr hyn a ddywed y Gweinidog, wrth gwrs, ynglŷn â pheidio â chreu amserlenni artiffisial, ond rwy’n sicr yn gwybod, pe bawn yn ddynes o oedran cael plant ac yn byw yn y rhanbarth hwnnw, buaswn yn awyddus i wybod bod amserlen ar waith ac y gallwn ddisgwyl i'r gwasanaeth hwnnw fod yn ddiogel ar ryw adeg.
Rwyf wedi derbyn sylwadau, a gwn fod cyd-Aelodau eraill wedi derbyn sylwadau, a oedd yn awgrymu i mi—wel, yn profi i mi—fod y problemau diwylliannol, ac rwy'n derbyn unwaith eto na ellir eu newid dros nos, yng Nghwm Taf yn ymestyn ymhell y tu hwnt i wasanaethau mamolaeth. Yn ddiweddar, cyfarfûm â theulu a roddodd dystiolaeth i mi ynghylch materion difrifol yn ymwneud â thriniaeth eu rhieni oedrannus ar wahân mewn gwahanol rannau o wasanaeth Cwm Taf dros gyfnod o ddwy flynedd. Nawr, mae'r materion hyn yn codi themâu tebyg i rai o'r problemau mewn perthynas â phrofiadau menywod yn y gwasanaeth mamolaeth—problemau sy'n ymwneud â diffyg parch, diffyg gwrando ar gleifion a'u teuluoedd, diffyg gofal sylfaenol, fel cynorthwyo pobl hŷn i fwyta ac yfed. Cafodd y teulu hwn brofiad anfoddhaol iawn, unwaith eto'n debyg i rai o'r bobl a oedd wedi defnyddio gwasanaethau mamolaeth, wrth ddefnyddio'r weithdrefn gwyno. A gaf fi ofyn i'r Gweinidog heddiw a fydd yr ymyriadau presennol a roddwyd ar waith ganddo yng Nghwm Taf yn nodi pryderon ehangach, fel y rhain, ynglŷn â'r diwylliant yn y sefydliad y tu hwnt i wasanaethau mamolaeth? Ac a yw'n derbyn y gallai fod angen iddo gynyddu ei ymyrraeth os daw pethau o'r fath yn gyhoeddus?
In terms of the work that's already being done, you will no doubt have read the comments made by not just the independent oversight panel, but they do extend and they do recognise the more broad improvements that are being made under the leadership of the interim chief executive, and that change in culture is taking place at board level, from the reports provided by David Jenkins. I'm not sure if he's actually given his evidence yet to the health committee. If he hasn't, then I know that's imminent. And you'll understand that there is a real recognition that they need to look across the services provided to reassure themselves at board level that the work they are doing to put right, in particular, challenges in the complaints function actually addresses also the culture and the provision of the service. That's both for staff within the system as well as the people that they care for.
Now, I'm not going to give a hostage to fortune about what may or may not happen in the future. I am, of course, guided and make judgments based on advice, advice given by officials, but also about the tripartite process, along with the chief executive of NHS Wales, Healthcare Inspectorate Wales and the Wales Audit Office. If new issues come to light that require further intervention, then I will do that. If those issues do not require further intervention, but still require improvement, I expect that improvement to take place without the need for direct Government intervention.
O ran y gwaith sy'n mynd rhagddo eisoes, mae'n siŵr y byddwch wedi darllen y sylwadau a wnaed nid yn unig gan y panel trosolwg annibynnol, ond maent yn ymestyn ac maent yn cydnabod y gwelliannau mwy eang sy'n cael eu gwneud o dan arweinyddiaeth y prif weithredwr dros dro, a bod newid mewn diwylliant yn digwydd ar lefel y bwrdd, o'r adroddiadau a ddarparwyd gan David Jenkins. Nid wyf yn siŵr a yw wedi rhoi tystiolaeth i'r pwyllgor iechyd eto. Os nad yw wedi gwneud hynny, gwn ei fod ar fin digwydd. Ac fe fyddwch yn deall bod cydnabyddiaeth wirioneddol fod angen iddynt edrych ar draws y gwasanaethau a ddarperir i dawelu eu meddyliau eu hunain ar lefel y bwrdd fod y gwaith y maent yn ei wneud i unioni, yn benodol, heriau yn y swyddogaeth gwyno yn mynd i'r afael hefyd â'r diwylliant a darpariaeth y gwasanaeth. Mae hynny ar gyfer staff yn y system yn ogystal â'r bobl y maent yn gofalu amdanynt.
Nawr, nid wyf am ddenu helynt drwy sôn am yr hyn a allai neu na allai ddigwydd yn y dyfodol. Wrth gwrs, rwy'n cael fy arwain ac yn ffurfio barn ar sail cyngor, cyngor a roddir gan swyddogion, ond hefyd y broses deirochrog, ynghyd â phrif weithredwr GIG Cymru, Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru a Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru. Os daw materion newydd i'r amlwg sy'n gofyn am ymyrraeth bellach, byddaf yn gwneud hynny. Os nad oes angen ymyrraeth bellach ar y materion hynny, ond bod angen eu gwella o hyd, disgwyliaf i'r gwelliannau hynny ddigwydd heb yr angen am ymyrraeth uniongyrchol gan y Llywodraeth.
I'm grateful to the Minister for his response and I'm glad that he mentions the health board himself. I don't know if the Minister has had an opportunity to review the proceedings of last week's health committee, but I can't be the only person who was shocked by some of what David Jenkins, the independent adviser, had to say about the state of the local health board. He was very clear that the scrutiny was profoundly inadequate and when pressed on that, he said that the independent members were only human and could be expected to be told what they believed.
These people are employed to scrutinise the executives. The chair gets paid a minimum of £55,000 a year; the vice-chair a minimum of £45,000; and there are seven independent members paid £10,000 a year each. And yet, David Jenkins was very clear that they were not fit—they are not able to effectively scrutinise. They now, as I understand it—and just as an example of their inability to effectively scrutinise—this summer, let the failed chief executive walk away scot free with no stain on her character whatsoever.
I understand that the board is now being given a 12-month development programme, provided by Deloitte UK. I can't imagine that's coming cheap and I understand that that comes out of the Minister's budget. I have to say that I am at a loss to understand how this number of people who were not capable of scrutinising their executive were allowed to be appointed in the first place. Again, in response to questions from the committee, David Jenkins said that he felt that there were real issues with the appointments process. But, Presiding Officer, I have to say that the Minister has to take responsibility for this. He appointed all those people. He sets the process and yet, they were only human and could be expected to believe what they were told.
Now, we have a situation where we have five out of the seven local health boards in some kind of special measures—
Rwy'n ddiolchgar i'r Gweinidog am ei ymateb ac rwy'n falch iddo sôn am y bwrdd iechyd. Nid wyf yn gwybod a yw'r Gweinidog wedi cael cyfle i adolygu trafodion y pwyllgor iechyd yr wythnos diwethaf, ond does bosibl mai fi oedd yr unig un a gafodd sioc wrth glywed yr hyn oedd gan David Jenkins, y cynghorydd annibynnol, i'w ddweud am gyflwr y bwrdd iechyd lleol. Dywedodd yn glir iawn fod y gwaith craffu yn dra annigonol, a phan gafodd ei holi ynglŷn â hynny, dywedodd mai pobl yw'r aelodau annibynnol wedi'r cyfan ac y gellid disgwyl dweud wrthynt beth roeddent yn ei gredu.
Cyflogir y bobl hyn i graffu ar y swyddogion gweithredol. Mae'r cadeirydd yn cael o leiaf £55,000 y flwyddyn; mae'r is-gadeirydd yn cael o leiaf £45,000; ac mae saith aelod annibynnol yn cael £10,000 y flwyddyn yr un. Ac eto, dywedodd David Jenkins yn glir iawn nad oeddent yn gymwys—nid ydynt yn gallu craffu'n effeithiol. Bellach, yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf—ac fel enghraifft o’u hanallu i graffu’n effeithiol—yr haf hwn, gwnaethant adael i’r prif weithredwr aflwyddiannus ddianc yn ddi-gosb heb unrhyw frycheuyn o gwbl ar ei chymeriad.
Deallaf bellach fod y bwrdd yn cael rhaglen ddatblygu 12 mis, a ddarperir gan Deloitte UK. Ni allaf ddychmygu bod hynny'n rhad a deallaf fod hynny'n dod allan o gyllideb y Gweinidog. Mae'n rhaid imi ddweud na allaf ddeall sut y caniatawyd i'r bobl hyn nad oeddent yn gallu craffu ar eu gweithrediaeth gael eu penodi yn y lle cyntaf. Unwaith eto, mewn ymateb i gwestiynau gan y pwyllgor, dywedodd David Jenkins ei fod yn teimlo bod problemau gwirioneddol gyda'r broses benodi. Ond Lywydd, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud bod yn rhaid i'r Gweinidog dderbyn cyfrifoldeb am hyn. Ef a benododd yr holl bobl hynny. Ef sy'n pennu'r broses, ac eto, pobl ydynt wedi'r cyfan a gellid disgwyl iddynt gredu'r hyn a ddywedir wrthynt.
Nawr, mae gennym sefyllfa lle mae gennym bump o'r saith bwrdd iechyd lleol mewn rhyw fath o fesurau arbennig—
That isn't true.
Nid yw hynny'n wir.
—we have people being appointed, who clearly cannot do their job, and then have to have a very, very expensive intervention to enable them to do it. Is it not time for the Minister to acknowledge that the local health board system isn't working? The whole point of it was to have independent scrutiny to be able to scrutinise the professionals. It's clearly not working. Isn't it time for a radical rethink about how our health and care services are governed?
—mae gennym bobl yn cael eu penodi pan fo'n amlwg na allant wneud eu gwaith, ac yna mae'n rhaid iddynt gael ymyrraeth ddrud iawn i'w galluogi i'w wneud. Onid yw'n bryd i'r Gweinidog gydnabod nad yw system y byrddau iechyd lleol yn gweithio? Ei holl bwynt oedd galluogi gwaith craffu annibynnol ar y gweithwyr proffesiynol. Mae'n amlwg nad yw'n gweithio. Onid yw'n bryd ailfeddwl yn sylfaenol ynglŷn â sut y caiff ein gwasanaethau iechyd a gofal eu llywodraethu?
Well, I really do regret the tone and the content of a significant amount of what the Member said.
Wel, rwy'n gresynu at gywair a chynnwys cryn dipyn o'r hyn a ddywedodd yr Aelod.
I bet you do.
Rwy'n siŵr eich bod.
When the Member says that five health boards are in a form of special measures, that is simply not true—simply not true—
Pan ddywed yr Aelod fod pum bwrdd iechyd mewn rhyw ffurf ar fesurau arbennig, nid yw hynny'n wir o gwbl—nid yw'n wir o gwbl—
Well, it's what your independent adviser said.
Wel, dyna a ddywedodd eich cynghorydd annibynnol.
The Member should deal with the range of the facts of the matter and the reality of the commitment to improvement and the reality of what is said. I don't take the Member's recollection and recounting for all of the exact language used by David Jenkins, but I do know, in the meetings that I've had directly with him, his view is that they've done all you could expect them to do to make the improvements that are required. They've shown insight; they've shown a commitment to behave differently and they are behaving differently in the level of scrutiny and oversight you would expect them to have.
We have made changes to the induction process and to how independent members understand the nature of their role and their job. So, we are listening to and learning about what is happening within our system. I don't share the Member's view that a wholesale reorganisation of the way we deliver healthcare and oversight is required. That is exactly what the health service in Wales does not require. And, in fact, all of the independent reviews we've had into our healthcare system, including of course the parliamentary review, have said that actually that is not what we need to do to deliver improvements in our service. I'm committed to improvement in the healthcare system for our staff and the public they serve and I look forward to doing so with all reasonable people across the Chamber and outside it.
Dylai'r Aelod ymdrin â ffeithiau'r mater a realiti'r ymrwymiad i wella, a realiti'r hyn a ddywedir. Nid wyf yn derbyn disgrifiad yr Aelod o union eiriau David Jenkins, ond yn y cyfarfodydd a gefais gydag ef yn uniongyrchol, gwn mai ei farn ef yw eu bod wedi gwneud popeth y gallech ddisgwyl iddynt ei wneud i sicrhau'r gwelliannau sy'n ofynnol. Maent wedi dangos mewnwelediad; maent wedi dangos ymrwymiad i ymddwyn yn wahanol ac maent yn ymddwyn yn wahanol o ran y lefel o graffu a throsolwg y byddech yn ei disgwyl ganddynt.
Rydym wedi gwneud newidiadau i'r broses sefydlu a sut y mae aelodau annibynnol yn deall natur eu rôl a'u swydd. Felly, rydym yn gwrando ar yr hyn sy'n digwydd yn ein system ac yn dysgu amdano. Nid wyf yn rhannu barn yr Aelod fod angen ad-drefnu'r ffordd rydym yn darparu gofal iechyd a throsolwg yn gyfan gwbl. Dyna'n union nad oes ei angen ar y gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru. Ac mewn gwirionedd, mae'r holl adolygiadau annibynnol rydym wedi'u cael o'n system gofal iechyd, gan gynnwys yr adolygiad seneddol wrth gwrs, wedi nodi nad dyna sydd angen inni ei wneud i sicrhau gwelliannau yn ein gwasanaeth. Rwyf wedi ymrwymo i wella'r system gofal iechyd ar gyfer ein staff a'r cyhoedd y maent yn eu gwasanaethu ac edrychaf ymlaen at wneud hynny gyda'r holl bobl resymol ar draws y Siambr a'r tu allan iddi.
Llefarydd Plaid Brexit, Caroline Jones.
Brexit Party spokesperson, Caroline Jones.
Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, we are, once again, battling an outbreak of measles and mumps amongst university students. Around 30 suspected cases of mumps have hit students at Cardiff University, Cardiff Metropolitan University and the University of South Wales. This follows the loss of the UK's measles-free status earlier this year, just three years after we were rid of one of the world's most contagious diseases. The rise of these terrible diseases can be attributed to too few people getting vaccinated. We are ahead of the rest of the UK in vaccine rates, with 92 per cent of the children in Wales receiving the MMR vaccine, but this is still below the target. Minister, what new measures are you considering to increase vaccination rates in Wales, particularly amongst university students?
Diolch, Lywydd. Weinidog, unwaith eto, rydym yn brwydro yn erbyn achosion o'r frech goch a chlwy'r pennau ymhlith myfyrwyr prifysgol. Cafwyd oddeutu 30 o achosion tybiedig o glwy'r pennau ymhlith myfyrwyr ym Mhrifysgol Caerdydd, Prifysgol Metropolitan Caerdydd a Phrifysgol De Cymru. Mae hyn yn dilyn colli statws heb frech goch y DU yn gynharach eleni, dair blynedd yn unig ar ôl i ni gael gwared ar un o afiechydon mwyaf heintus y byd. Gellir priodoli'r cynnydd yn y clefydau ofnadwy hyn i'r niferoedd rhy isel o bobl sy'n cael eu brechu. Rydym ar y blaen i weddill y DU o ran cyfraddau brechu, gyda 92 y cant o blant Cymru yn cael y brechlyn MMR, ond mae hyn yn dal i fod yn is na'r targed. Weinidog, pa fesurau newydd rydych yn eu hystyried i gynyddu cyfraddau brechu yng Nghymru, yn enwedig ymhlith myfyrwyr prifysgol?
Actually, the first port of call is to look at the childhood immunisation rates in addition to the potential for catch-up, because if we do safely vaccinate an even higher portion of the population, then that is the best protection for all of us. Public Health Wales, working together with colleagues and public health teams in each of the health boards, are looking again at what to do to raise again the high level of vaccination we already have to improve that even further. But the reason why the UK lost its measles-free status from the World Health Organization was because of the particularly low level of vaccinations being achieved over a period of time in England, where they're down to about 85 per cent. And it does show both the impact of investing in the earlier years part of our health and care system, but it also shows the real damage that has been done by the anti-vaxxer movement, and in particular by the legacy of Dr Wakefield, who is now disgraced and has been struck off, but there are still people prepared to support and promote his work. The real impact is in the compromise that that has left on public health right across United Kingdom, in particular in England, but there are parts of Wales where there are real gaps as well.
Mewn gwirionedd, y dasg gyntaf yw edrych ar gyfraddau imiwneiddio plant yn ychwanegol at y potensial i ddal i fyny, oherwydd pe baem yn brechu cyfran hyd yn oed yn uwch o'r boblogaeth yn ddiogel, dyna fyddai'r amddiffyniad gorau i bob un ohonom. Mae Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru, gan weithio gyda chydweithwyr a thimau iechyd y cyhoedd ym mhob un o'r byrddau iechyd, yn edrych eto ar beth y gellir ei wneud i godi'r lefel uchel o frechu sydd gennym eisoes er mwyn gwella hynny hyd yn oed ymhellach. Ond y rheswm pam y collodd y DU ei statws heb frech goch gan Sefydliad Iechyd y Byd oedd oherwydd y lefel arbennig o isel o frechlynnau a gafwyd dros gyfnod o amser yn Lloegr, lle maent wedi cwympo i tua 85 y cant. Ac mae'n dangos effaith buddsoddi yn rhan y blynyddoedd cynnar o'n system iechyd a gofal, ond mae hefyd yn dangos y niwed gwirioneddol a wnaed gan y mudiad gwrth-frechu, ac yn enwedig gan waddol Dr Wakefield, sydd bellach yn destun cywilydd ac wedi'i ddiswyddo, ond mae rhai pobl yn barod i gefnogi a hyrwyddo ei waith o hyd. Yr effaith wirioneddol yw'r perygl y mae hynny wedi'i achosi i iechyd y cyhoedd ledled y Deyrnas Unedig, yn enwedig yn Lloegr, ond ceir bylchau go iawn mewn rhannau o Gymru hefyd.
Thank you for that answer, Minister. Of course, one of the biggest hurdles to increasing vaccination rates is the rise of online misinformation and, as you mentioned, the anti-vax movement. When celebrities and so-called experts are spreading myths and indeed telling lies about vaccines on Facebook and Twitter, it makes the job of Public Health Wales so much harder. Minister, what discussions have you had with your counterparts in the rest of the UK to tackle the misinformation about vaccines, and have you considered a public information campaign to talk about the safety and efficacy of vaccines?
Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog. Wrth gwrs, un o'r rhwystrau mwyaf o ran cynyddu cyfraddau brechu yw cynnydd mewn gwybodaeth anghywir ar-lein, ac fel y dywedoch chi, y mudiad gwrth-frechu. Pan fo enwogion ac arbenigwyr honedig yn lledaenu mythau ac yn dweud celwyddau yn wir am frechu ar Facebook a Twitter, mae'n gwneud gwaith Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru yn llawer anos. Weinidog, pa drafodaethau a gawsoch gyda'ch swyddogion cyfatebol yng ngweddill y DU i fynd i'r afael â gwybodaeth anghywir am frechlynnau, ac a ydych wedi ystyried ymgyrch wybodaeth gyhoeddus i sôn am ddiogelwch ac effeithiolrwydd brechlynnau?
We regularly provide statements to reassure the public about the safety and efficacy of all the vaccines that are provided and the science and the evidence base behind them, as opposed to the suspicion and the growth of fake news in particular, a range of its proponents in a variety of different positions of influence. We're not in a position where we need to consider what Matt Hancock has talked about in terms of trying to make vaccination compulsory. I think that is very difficult to achieve and I think that may cause more harm than good for those who are already not having their children vaccinated, it may drive them even further away.
I think it is about how we persuade and provide evidence from people that they trust, which is why again investing in our earliest years and in services when people are pregnant really matters, about the level of trust that is provided and the assurance about what that means for doing the right thing for them and their children. We'll continue to do so. I think the challenge with wider public information campaigns is that often there's a very poor return. We need to understand where people get their information and who they're likely to be persuaded by to have the biggest return on any investment that we make.
Rydym yn gwneud datganiadau rheolaidd i dawelu meddwl y cyhoedd ynghylch diogelwch ac effeithiolrwydd yr holl frechlynnau a ddarperir a'r wyddoniaeth a'r sylfaen dystiolaeth sy'n sail iddynt, yn hytrach na'r amheuaeth a'r twf mewn newyddion ffug yn enwedig, gydag ystod o'i gefnogwyr sy'n ddylanwadol mewn gwahanol ffyrdd. Nid ydym mewn sefyllfa lle mae angen i ni ystyried yr hyn y mae Matt Hancock wedi sôn amdano o ran ceisio gwneud brechu'n orfodol. Credaf fod hynny'n anodd iawn i'w gyflawni a chredaf y gallai hynny achosi mwy o niwed nag o les i'r rhai nad ydynt eisoes yn brechu eu plant, gan y gallai eu gyrru hyd yn oed ymhellach i ffwrdd.
Credaf fod hyn yn ymwneud â sut rydym yn perswadio ac yn darparu tystiolaeth gan bobl y maent yn ymddiried ynddynt, a dyna pam, unwaith eto, fod buddsoddi yn ein blynyddoedd cynharaf ac mewn gwasanaethau pan fydd pobl yn feichiog yn wirioneddol bwysig, o ran lefel yr ymddiriedaeth a ddarperir a'r sicrwydd ynglŷn â beth y mae hynny'n ei olygu o ran gwneud y peth iawn iddynt hwy a'u plant. Byddwn yn parhau i wneud hynny. Credaf mai'r her gydag ymgyrchoedd gwybodaeth gyhoeddus ehangach yw na cheir fawr ddim enillion yn aml. Mae angen inni ddeall o ble y mae pobl yn cael eu gwybodaeth a chan bwy y maent yn debygol o gael eu perswadio er mwyn sicrhau'r enillion mwyaf ar unrhyw fuddsoddiad a wnawn.
3. Beth yw ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru i adroddiad Carers Wales, 'Dilyn y Ddeddf'? OAQ54593
3. What is the Welsh Government's response to the Carers Wales 'Track the Act' report? OAQ54593
It is essential that there is good information about carers' experiences, which is why we funded Carers Wales to produce the 'Track the Act' survey. The recommendations and data are being considered and will be used to shape national carers policy and our work with service providers and stakeholders.
Mae'n hanfodol fod gwybodaeth dda i'w chael am brofiadau gofalwyr, a dyna pam rydym wedi ariannu Gofalwyr Cymru i gynhyrchu arolwg 'Dilyn y Ddeddf'. Mae'r argymhellion a'r data yn cael eu hystyried ac fe'u defnyddir i lunio polisi gofalwyr cenedlaethol a'n gwaith gyda darparwyr gwasanaethau a rhanddeiliaid.
Can I just congratulate Carers Wales, and indeed the Government, on the approach to having post-legislative scrutiny not done by us but done by a key charity? The findings really are quite sobering, saying that parts of the Act are not yet working as we would like. The Minister may have seen that only 45 per cent of those who responded said they'd seen or been given information to help them care, that's a real failing, and that was a drop of 8 per cent on last year. Additionally, 57 per cent of carers responding to the survey said they did not get any support, and indeed only 4 per cent said their own support had come from a package as a result of a carers assessment.
We know unpaid carers are at the heart of our care system, and it's a vital group to be supported. We have good legislation, but we've got to ensure that the support is coming forward. I'm particularly concerned to see even basic things like information giving are still not at a level that we can expect. So, I do hope the Government will be responding thoroughly to the 'Track the Act' report, and that we will get that response and the chance to debate it again here in the Chamber.
A gaf fi longyfarch Gofalwyr Cymru, a'r Llywodraeth yn wir, ar y dull o sicrhau mai elusen allweddol yn hytrach na ni sy'n gwneud y gwaith craffu ôl-ddeddfwriaethol? Mae'r canfyddiadau'n ddigon i'ch sobri, gan y dywedant nad yw rhannau o'r Ddeddf yn gweithio fel yr hoffem iddynt ei wneud hyd yma. Efallai fod y Gweinidog wedi gweld mai 45 y cant yn unig o'r rhai a ymatebodd a ddywedodd eu bod wedi gweld neu wedi cael gwybodaeth i'w helpu i ofalu, ac mae hynny'n fethiant go iawn, ac roedd yn ostyngiad o 8 y cant o gymharu â'r llynedd. Yn ogystal, dywedodd 57 y cant o'r gofalwyr a ymatebodd i'r arolwg nad oeddent yn cael unrhyw gefnogaeth, ac yn wir, 4 y cant yn unig a ddywedodd fod eu cefnogaeth eu hunain wedi dod o becyn o ganlyniad i asesiad gofalwyr.
Gwyddom fod gofalwyr di-dâl yn ganolog i'n system ofal, ac mae'n grŵp hanfodol i'w gefnogi. Mae gennym ddeddfwriaeth dda, ond mae'n rhaid inni sicrhau bod y gefnogaeth yn cael ei darparu. Rwy'n arbennig o bryderus o weld nad yw hyd yn oed pethau sylfaenol fel darparu gwybodaeth ar lefel y gallwn ei disgwyl o hyd. Felly, gobeithiaf y bydd y Llywodraeth yn ymateb yn drylwyr i adroddiad 'Dilyn y Ddeddf', ac y byddwn yn cael yr ymateb hwnnw a'r cyfle i'w drafod eto yma yn y Siambr.
I thank David Melding very much for that question. The information that has come from 'Track the Act' is, obviously, absolutely crucial in taking forward our policies. Some of the recommendations that 'Track the Act' has made we are already carrying out or are committed to. For example, they're very concerned that we do make people more aware of their rights as carers, and we are planning a campaign on awareness this autumn. We're also improving the way that we are able to get data. There's going to be a new performance and improvement framework, which will improve the collection of data from April 2020. We consulted on that in the summer. So, we are taking up many of the recommendations.
Obviously, the reality of how carers experience their day-to-day life is absolutely vital for us, because we want to, as a Government, acknowledge our huge indebtedness to the love and care of carers who, of course, make a huge contribution to Wales. So, all that is in 'Track the Act', and it's the third time we've funded this survey, and of course the other measurements that we're taking, for example, Measuring the Mountain, which again reveals the day-to-day experience of carers. All of that has got to inform our policies.
Of course, some of the figures and some of the issues are very disappointing, really, I think. We're obviously taking that into account. There are other, better figures that have emerged from other reports, for example, the Wales Audit Office report, which did show that, I think, 70 per cent of those who were looking for information, advice and assistance felt that it was an easy thing to do to approach the local authority. So, there are other statistics as well, but I think there's absolutely no doubt that we've got to take into account the views of carers.
Diolch yn fawr iawn i David Melding am ei gwestiwn. Mae'r wybodaeth a gafwyd o 'Dilyn y Ddeddf' yn amlwg yn gwbl hanfodol wrth ddatblygu ein polisïau. Rydym eisoes yn cyflawni neu wedi ymrwymo i rai o'r argymhellion a wnaed gan 'Dilyn y Ddeddf'. Er enghraifft, maent yn awyddus iawn inni sicrhau bod pobl yn fwy ymwybodol o'u hawliau fel gofalwyr, ac rydym yn cynllunio ymgyrch godi ymwybyddiaeth yr hydref hwn. Rydym hefyd yn gwella'r ffordd y gallwn gasglu data. Bydd fframwaith perfformiad a gwella newydd a fydd yn gwella'r broses o gasglu data yn weithredol o Ebrill 2020. Cawsom ymgynghoriad ar hynny yn yr haf. Felly, rydym yn rhoi llawer o'r argymhellion ar waith.
Yn amlwg, mae realiti bywyd gofalwyr o ddydd i ddydd yn gwbl hanfodol i ni, gan ein bod yn awyddus, fel Llywodraeth, i gydnabod ein dyled enfawr i gariad a gofal y gofalwyr sydd, wrth gwrs, yn gwneud cyfraniad enfawr i Gymru. Felly, mae hynny oll wedi'i gynnwys yn 'Dilyn y Ddeddf', a dyma'r trydydd tro i ni ariannu'r arolwg hwn, ac wrth gwrs, y mesuriadau eraill rydym eu gwneud, er enghraifft, Mesur y Mynydd, sydd eto'n datgelu profiadau gofalwyr o ddydd i ddydd. Mae'n rhaid i'r rhain oll lywio ein polisïau.
Wrth gwrs, mae rhai o'r ffigurau a rhai o'r materion yn siomedig iawn, a dweud y gwir. Rydym yn amlwg yn ystyried hynny. Mae ffigurau eraill gwell wedi dod i'r amlwg o adroddiadau eraill, er enghraifft, adroddiad Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru, a ddangosai, rwy'n credu, fod 70 y cant o'r rhai a oedd yn chwilio am wybodaeth, cyngor a chymorth yn teimlo bod mynd at yr awdurdod lleol yn beth hawdd i'w wneud. Felly, mae ystadegau eraill i'w cael hefyd, ond ni chredaf fod unrhyw amheuaeth fod yn rhaid i ni ystyried safbwyntiau gofalwyr.
Unpaid carers are our unsung heroes. Group such as the Newport Carers Forum provide incredibly important work in supporting local carers and their families. They also provide an invaluable platform for carers to support each other and share their experiences. It was a great pleasure for me, along with John Griffiths, to welcome the Deputy Minister to the forum last month to hear first-hand how vital the group is to so many. I know the forum were incredibly grateful that you listened to their concerns and were taking carers' real experiences on board.
One of the issues that was raised was the importance of carers knowing their rights. I'm pleased to hear that there will be a campaign in the autumn, but what further action will the Minister take to ensure that our carers are equipped and that they can find out the information they need when they need it?
Gofalwyr di-dâl yw ein harwyr di-glod. Mae grwpiau fel Fforwm Gofalwyr Casnewydd yn gwneud gwaith hynod bwysig yn cefnogi gofalwyr lleol a'u teuluoedd. Maent hefyd yn darparu llwyfan hynod werthfawr i ofalwyr gefnogi ei gilydd a rhannu eu profiadau. Roedd yn bleser mawr i mi groesawu’r Dirprwy Weinidog, gyda John Griffiths, i’r fforwm y mis diwethaf i glywed o lygad y ffynnon pa mor hanfodol yw’r grŵp i gynifer o bobl. Gwn fod y fforwm yn hynod ddiolchgar i chi am wrando ar eu pryderon ac am ystyried profiadau real y gofalwyr.
Un o'r materion a godwyd oedd pwysigrwydd sicrhau bod gofalwyr yn ymwybodol o'u hawliau. Rwy'n falch o glywed y bydd ymgyrch yn yr hydref, ond pa gamau pellach y bydd y Gweinidog yn eu cymryd i sicrhau bod ein gofalwyr wedi'u harfogi ac y gallant gael mynediad at y wybodaeth sydd ei hangen arnynt pan fydd angen?
I thank Jayne Bryant for that question. I found visiting the Newport carers, along with Jayne and John Griffiths, such a valuable occasion. The information, again, directly from carers' experiences is probably the most powerful thing in terms of shaping Government policy.
We are planning, as Jayne has said, to have an awareness campaign on carers' rights. But, we've also revived our ministerial advisory group, with the plan of having an action plan for carers that will be launched next year. One of the key points I hope that we will have in that action plan is maybe a charter or something of that nature, so that carers can be absolutely aware of what all their rights are. I think there are many carers who are not aware of their rights, and we've got to do all we possibly can.
I'd like to thank Jayne and John for the support they're obviously giving to that group and the trust that the members of the group did have in them. I hope that we will be able to use the proposals that they made when we move forward with our action plan.
Diolch i Jayne Bryant am ei chwestiwn. Roedd ymweld â gofalwyr Casnewydd gyda Jayne a John Griffiths yn achlysur mor werthfawr. Mae'n debyg mai'r wybodaeth uniongyrchol am brofiadau gofalwyr yw'r peth mwyaf pwerus o ran llunio polisi'r Llywodraeth.
Fel y dywedodd Jayne, rydym yn bwriadu cael ymgyrch i godi ymwybyddiaeth o hawliau gofalwyr. Ond rydym hefyd wedi adfywio ein grŵp cynghori gweinidogol, gyda'r bwriad o lunio cynllun gweithredu ar gyfer gofalwyr i'w lansio y flwyddyn nesaf. Un o'r pwyntiau allweddol a fydd gennym yn y cynllun gweithredu hwnnw, rwy'n gobeithio, yw siarter efallai, neu rywbeth o'r fath, fel y gall gofalwyr fod yn gwbl ymwybodol o'u holl hawliau. Credaf fod llawer o ofalwyr nad ydynt yn ymwybodol o'u hawliau, ac mae'n rhaid inni wneud popeth yn ein gallu.
Hoffwn ddiolch i Jayne a John am y gefnogaeth y maent yn amlwg yn ei rhoi i'r grŵp hwnnw a'r ffydd oedd gan aelodau'r grŵp ynddynt. Rwy'n gobeithio y bydd modd inni ddefnyddio'r argymhellion a luniwyd ganddynt wrth inni fwrw ymlaen gyda'n cynllun gweithredu.
4. A wnaiff y Gweinidog amlinellu sut y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn cefnogi arloesi digidol o fewn gwasanaethau iechyd a gofal? OAQ54576
4. Will the Minister outline how the Welsh Government is supporting digital innovation within health and care services? OAQ54576
Yes, thank you. Digital innovation is a key driver of change. 'A Healthier Wales' sets out our commitment to support the use of digital technologies to improve health and care services in Wales. This includes significant additional investment in digital priorities and builds on existing support for technology innovation and adoption.
Iawn, diolch. Mae arloesi digidol yn allweddol i sbarduno newid. Mae 'Cymru Iachach' yn nodi ein hymrwymiad i gefnogi'r defnydd o dechnolegau digidol i wella gwasanaethau iechyd a gofal yng Nghymru. Mae hyn yn cynnwys buddsoddiad ychwanegol sylweddol mewn blaenoriaethau digidol ac yn adeiladu ar y gefnogaeth sy'n bodoli eisoes i arloesi technolegol a mabwysiadu technoleg.
Thank you, Minister. I was pleased to read your written statement from 30 September on digital health and care and showing that progress is being made, and it's certainly something that I see as making a real difference on the front line in visits that I have carried out to various projects within my constituency. I've previously raised issues around how digital health and care can support my constituents through things like electronic referrals, but also exciting examples that I've seen such as the neighbourhood nursing model, using the Malinko software, which is being piloted in the north Cynon cluster. I note in your written statement your comments around ensuring that stakeholders are fully signed up to this agenda, and it seems to me that we have a plethora of good practice in certain areas in Wales. So, I'd be interested to learn more about how you intend to ensure that this good practice can be spread, and that all stakeholders can be signed up to this really important agenda.
Diolch yn fawr, Weinidog. Roeddwn yn falch o ddarllen eich datganiad ysgrifenedig ar 30 Medi ar iechyd a gofal digidol a ddangosai fod cynnydd yn cael ei wneud, ac yn sicr mae'n rhywbeth y gwelaf ei fod yn gwneud gwahaniaeth gwirioneddol ar y rheng flaen mewn ymweliadau â gwahanol brosiectau yn fy etholaeth. Rwyf wedi tynnu sylw o'r blaen at sut y gall iechyd a gofal digidol gefnogi fy etholwyr drwy bethau fel atgyfeiriadau electronig, ac enghreifftiau cyffrous hefyd a welais megis y model nyrsio cymdogaeth, gan ddefnyddio meddalwedd Malinko, sy'n cael ei dreialu yng nghlwstwr gogledd Cynon. Sylwaf yn eich datganiad ysgrifenedig ar eich sylwadau ynghylch sicrhau bod rhanddeiliaid yn ymrwymo'n llwyr i'r agenda hon, ac mae'n ymddangos i mi fod gennym lawer iawn o arferion da mewn rhai ardaloedd yng Nghymru. Felly, hoffwn ddysgu mwy ynglŷn â sut y bwriadwch sicrhau y gellir lledaenu'r arfer da hwn, ac y gall pob rhanddeiliad ymrwymo i'r agenda wirioneddol bwysig hon.
Some of it is looking at how we are reforming our digital architecture in Wales, the successor role to NHS Wales Informatics Service, as part of a special health authority, but more broadly, again, about the culture, and the role that we think that the chief digital officer for health and care can play to both advise the Government on future strategy, but also to lead the digital health and care profession in Wales and to be a champion for the future of digital health and care here in Wales. It also goes into one of the recommendations from the Health and Social Care Committee inquiry into community and district nursing—the one we accepted about making sure there's proper investment to enable people to have hand-held devices with appropriate technology to enable them to do their job more effectively. So, this is not necessarily about innovation that is entirely new and different; it's actually about how we help them to be even more effective in their job with the way that we go about living our everyday lives and using hand-held devices. You can expect to see more of that and to see it more consistently adopted through our system. The challenge will be not to choke off innovation, but to be able to make choices in—[Inaudible]—to make sure we really do have adaptability between each of the different parts of our health and care system.
Mae rhywfaint ohono'n ymwneud ag ystyried sut y diwygiwn ein pensaernïaeth ddigidol yng Nghymru, y rôl sy'n olynu Gwasanaeth Gwybodeg GIG Cymru, fel rhan o awdurdod iechyd arbennig, ond yn fwy cyffredinol, unwaith eto, ynghylch y diwylliant, a'r rôl y credwn y gallai'r prif swyddog digidol ar gyfer iechyd a gofal ei chwarae i gynghori'r Llywodraeth ar strategaeth yn y dyfodol, ond hefyd i arwain y proffesiwn iechyd a gofal digidol yng Nghymru ac i hyrwyddo dyfodol iechyd a gofal digidol yma yng Nghymru. Mae hefyd yn ymwneud ag un o argymhellion ymchwiliad y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol i nyrsio cymunedol a nyrsys ardal—yr un a dderbyniwyd gennym ynglŷn â sicrhau buddsoddiad priodol i alluogi pobl i gael dyfeisiau llaw gyda thechnoleg briodol i'w galluogi i wneud eu gwaith yn fwy effeithiol. Felly, nid yw hyn o reidrwydd yn ymwneud ag arloesi sy'n hollol newydd a gwahanol; mewn gwirionedd, mae'n ymwneud â sut rydym yn eu helpu i fod hyd yn oed yn fwy effeithiol yn eu gwaith gyda'r ffordd yr awn ati i fyw ein bywydau bob dydd a defnyddio dyfeisiau llaw. Gallwch ddisgwyl gweld mwy o hynny a'i weld yn cael ei fabwysiadu'n fwy cyson drwy ein system. Yr her fydd peidio â thagu arloesedd, ond i allu gwneud dewisiadau mewn—[Anghlywadwy]—i wneud yn siŵr bod gennym hyblygrwydd go iawn rhwng pob un o'r gwahanol rannau o'n system iechyd a gofal.
Minister, I do actually acknowledge the work that you have undertaken to digitalise some patient records through the Welsh community care information system. However, serious problems do remain. During a recent meeting of elected Members in north Wales with the health board, there was unanimous support for the need to take action to address the fact that hospitals are simply not able to communicate with each other. For instance, if I was to go into Ysbyty Gwynedd with an issue, and perhaps I'd been in Ysbyty Glan Clwyd a couple of weeks ago, the notes in Bangor wouldn't pick up on the fact. In other words, the hospitals don't talk to one another. The health board chief exec and the chairman of the board have said it's a real problem when wanting to deliver safe and practical healthcare.
But in addition to hospitals struggling, I know that care homes are struggling to access patient information too, and nursing homes. That just sounds in this day and age really bizarre, and this could actually be negatively affecting over 15,000 people aged 65 or over who actually are residing in care homes. So, what consideration have you given to ensuring that our care homes and nursing homes are able to tap into the health systems on their patients, and also that they have relevant access to digital patient records and that, most importantly, we do have clear digitalised information that is able to translate across all our hospitals.
Weinidog, rwy'n cydnabod y gwaith a wnaethoch ar ddigidoleiddio rhai cofnodion cleifion drwy system wybodaeth gofal cymunedol Cymru. Fodd bynnag, mae problemau difrifol yn parhau. Yn ystod cyfarfod diweddar rhwng Aelodau etholedig yng ngogledd Cymru a'r bwrdd iechyd, cafwyd cefnogaeth unfrydol i'r angen i weithredu er mwyn mynd i'r afael â'r ffaith nad yw ysbytai'n gallu cyfathrebu â'i gilydd. Er enghraifft, pe bawn i'n mynd i Ysbyty Gwynedd oherwydd problem, ac efallai i mi fod yn Ysbyty Glan Clwyd ychydig wythnosau yn ôl, ni fyddai'r nodiadau ym Mangor yn nodi'r ffaith honno. Mewn geiriau eraill, nid yw'r ysbytai'n siarad â'i gilydd. Mae prif weithredwr y bwrdd iechyd a chadeirydd y bwrdd wedi dweud ei bod yn broblem wirioneddol pan fo angen darparu gofal iechyd diogel ac ymarferol.
Ond ar wahân i'r ysbytai sy'n cael trafferth, gwn fod cartrefi gofal yn ei chael hi'n anodd cael gafael ar wybodaeth am gleifion hefyd, a chartrefi nyrsio. Mae hynny'n swnio'n rhyfedd iawn yn yr oes sydd ohoni, a gallai hyn gael effaith negyddol ar dros 15,000 o bobl 65 oed neu hŷn sy'n byw mewn cartrefi gofal. Felly, pa ystyriaeth a roesoch i sicrhau bod ein cartrefi gofal a'n cartrefi nyrsio yn gallu manteisio ar y systemau iechyd ar eu cleifion, a hefyd eu bod yn cael mynediad perthnasol at gofnodion digidol ar gyfer cleifion ac yn bwysicaf oll, fod gennym wybodaeth wedi'i digidoleiddio'n glir y gellir ei throsglwyddo i'n holl ysbytai.
There are two quite different things that the Member said there. One is about making sure that parts of our healthcare system can talk to each other—in particular, in the hospital-based part of the system. That certainly is work that is ongoing with further investment and expectations being made, and I've actually seen examples of innovation in exactly this space on my recent visit to north Wales.
The second point you made I think is rather more confusing and, actually, to make sure that we get a proper answer, it might be helpful to be really clear about what the Member's asking for. So, I'd ask you to follow up in writing, because access to care homes, and who in a care home has access to that—well, you need to understand who that actually is. Are you talking about registered healthcare professionals providing direct care or healthcare, or are you talking about the management level? It's really important to understand who has ownership of that data, if it's the person, and how that data is shared, and our systems to allow that to be undertaken, with proper information governance around that. It might be helpful if the Member wrote to me on the particular issue that she sees, and then I'll get her a proper answer to deal with that.
Fe ddywedodd yr Aelod ddau beth cwbl wahanol yn y fan honno. Mae a wnelo un â sicrhau bod rhannau o'n system gofal iechyd yn gallu siarad â'i gilydd—yn benodol, yn y rhan o'r system sydd wedi'i lleoli yn yr ysbyty. Yn sicr, mae hwnnw'n waith sy'n mynd rhagddo gyda buddsoddiad a disgwyliadau pellach, a gwelais enghreifftiau o arloesi yn yr union faes hwn ar fy ymweliad â gogledd Cymru yn ddiweddar.
Rwy'n credu bod yr ail bwynt a wnaethoch yn fwy dryslyd ac mewn gwirionedd, er mwyn sicrhau ein bod yn cael ateb priodol, efallai y byddai'n ddefnyddiol bod yn glir iawn ynglŷn â'r hyn y mae'r Aelod yn gofyn amdano. Felly, rwyf am ofyn i chi fynd ar drywydd hyn yn ysgrifenedig, gan fod mynediad at gartrefi gofal, a phwy mewn cartref gofal sy'n cael mynediad at hynny—wel, mae angen i chi ddeall pwy a olygir mewn gwirionedd. A ydych yn sôn am weithwyr gofal iechyd proffesiynol cofrestredig sy'n darparu gofal uniongyrchol neu ofal iechyd, neu a ydych chi'n sôn am y lefel reoli? Mae'n bwysig iawn deall pwy sy'n berchen ar y data, os mai'r person, a sut y rhennir y data hwnnw, a'n systemau i ganiatáu i hynny gael ei wneud, a llywodraethu gwybodaeth yn briodol o gwmpas hynny. Efallai y byddai'n ddefnyddiol pe bai'r Aelod yn ysgrifennu ataf ynghylch y mater penodol y mae'n ei weld, ac yna fe roddaf ateb priodol i ymdrin â hynny.
5. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am hygyrchedd cyfleusterau ar gyfer y rhai ag anableddau corfforol ym Mhowys? OAQ54571
5. Will the Minister make a statement on the accessibility of facilities for those with physical disabilities in Powys? OAQ54571
We're committed to ensuring equal access to facilities for disabled people in Wales, in line with our recently published framework of action on independent living. I understand Powys Teaching Health Board is undertaking some positive work across its sites to improve access to facilities for disabled people.
Rydym wedi ymrwymo i sicrhau mynediad cyfartal at gyfleusterau i bobl anabl yng Nghymru, yn unol â'n fframwaith gweithredu ar fyw'n annibynnol a gyhoeddwyd yn ddiweddar. Rwy'n deall bod Bwrdd Iechyd Addysgu Powys yn gwneud gwaith cadarnhaol ar draws ei safleoedd i wella mynediad at gyfleusterau i bobl anabl.
Thank you for your answer, Deputy Minister. No doubt you will agree with me that the standard accessible toilet does not meet the needs of all people with physical disabilities, such as those suffering from spinal injuries or multiple sclerosis, for example, and, often, people, of course, need the extra equipment and space to allow them to use a toilet safely and comfortably. My understanding is that in NHS trusts in England there is specific funding that can be applied for to install changing places, toilet facilities. I wonder if could you outline, Deputy Minister, what the Welsh Government is doing to improve the accessibility of Changing Places toilet facilities for use by those people who have physical or multiple learning difficulties, which, I think, are certainly few and far between across Wales. That's certainly the case in my Montgomeryshire constituency.
Diolch am eich ateb, Ddirprwy Weinidog. Mae'n siwr y cytunwch â mi nad yw'r toiled hygyrch safonol yn diwallu anghenion pawb sydd ag anableddau corfforol, megis y rhai sy'n dioddef o anafiadau i'r cefn neu sglerosis ymledol er enghraifft, ac yn aml, mae angen cyfarpar a lle ychwanegol ar bobl i ganiatáu iddynt ddefnyddio toiled yn ddiogel ac yn gysurus. Yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf, mewn ymddiriedolaethau GIG yn Lloegr ceir cyllid penodol y gellir gwneud cais amdano i osod cyfleusterau toiled Changing Places. Tybed a allech amlinellu, Ddirprwy Weinidog, beth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i wella hygyrchedd cyfleusterau toiled Changing Places i bobl sydd ag anawsterau corfforol neu anawsterau dysgu lluosog, cyfleusterau sy'n sicr yn brin iawn ledled Cymru. Mae hynny'n bendant yn wir yn fy etholaeth i yn Sir Drefaldwyn.
I thank Russell George for that question. It is obviously very important that we do have Changing Places widely available for people who do need them and I'm pleased to say that we've got one in the National Assembly for Wales and we've got one in Aberystwyth, in our building in Aberystwyth. I believe there are 45 across Wales, and I know that in your local health board that there's a Changing Places at Brecon hospital, which is the first fully accessible facility across Powys's hospital sites. So, that is progress, and also I understand as part of major refurbishment works at Llandrindod.
But it's obviously really important that we do enable and help this to happen. Building regulations are already encouraging in certain buildings the provision of enlarged, unisex toilets, incorporating an adult changing table, and my colleague Julie James, the Minister for Housing and Regeneration, has instructed officials to consider options to increase the provision of Changing Places toilets where the building regulations apply. So, it is possible to use the building regulations to ensure that Changing Places toilets are available.
Diolch i Russell George am y cwestiwn hwnnw. Mae'n amlwg yn bwysig iawn i ni sicrhau bod toiledau Changing Places ar gael yn eang i bobl sydd eu hangen ac rwy'n falch o ddweud bod gennym un yng Nghynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru a bod gennym un yn ein hadeilad yn Aberystwyth. Credaf fod 45 ar draws Cymru, ac rwy'n gwybod bod toiled Changing Places yn eich bwrdd iechyd lleol, yn Ysbyty Aberhonddu, sef y cyfleuster cyntaf sy'n gwbl hygyrch ar draws safleoedd ysbyty Powys. Felly, mae hynny'n gynnydd, a hefyd fel rhan o waith adnewyddu mawr yn Llandrindod, rwy'n deall.
Ond mae'n amlwg yn bwysig iawn ein bod yn galluogi ac yn helpu hyn i ddigwydd. Mae rheoliadau adeiladu eisoes yn annog darparu toiledau neillryw mwy o faint mewn rhai adeiladau, sy'n cynnwys bwrdd newid i oedolion, ac mae fy nghyd-Aelod Julie James, y Gweinidog Tai ac Adfywio, wedi cyfarwyddo swyddogion i ystyried opsiynau i gynyddu'r ddarpariaeth o doiledau Changing Places lle mae'r rheoliadau adeiladu yn gymwys. Felly, mae'n bosibl defnyddio'r rheoliadau adeiladu i sicrhau bod toiledau Changing Places ar gael.
6. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am gefnogaeth Llywodraeth Cymru i bobl yng Nghymru sydd wedi cael diagnosis o glefyd Parkinson? OAQ54592
6. Will the Minister make a statement on the Welsh Government's support for people in Wales diagnosed with Parkinson's disease? OAQ54592
Yes. I recognise the challenges that people living with Parkinson’s disease face and the impact it has on carers, friends and families. That is why we are working with our health board’s specialist Parkinson’s teams to help people living with Parkinson’s disease and their carers to get the support they need and deserve.
Iawn. Rwy'n cydnabod yr heriau y mae pobl sy'n byw gyda chlefyd Parkinson yn eu hwynebu a'r effaith y mae'n ei chael ar ofalwyr, ffrindiau a theuluoedd. Dyna pam rydym yn gweithio gyda thimau Parkinson arbenigol ein byrddau iechyd i helpu pobl sy'n byw gyda chlefyd Parkinson a'u gofalwyr i gael y cymorth sydd ei angen arnynt ac y maent yn ei haeddu.
I was recently made aware of an organisation called the Cure Parkinson's Trust, which funds significant research in its mission to improve therapies and ultimately find a cure for Parkinson's disease. My grandfather passed away with Parkinson's disease many years ago. A constituent, David Murray, who is a former member of Newport City Council, is a trustee of the organisation. He lives himself with Parkinson's. I went to see him just the other day. He campaigns tirelessly for people with this condition. The trust is holding an important research update meeting in London next Monday, 28 October, and the life sciences sector is an increasingly important part of Wales's economy and there's a need to develop and better co-ordinate joint neurological research efforts for the benefit of the people of Wales with those that are going on across the border, and that's part of the purpose of the meeting that's taking place. I appreciate it's very short notice for the Minister, but would he be willing to either attend that meeting himself or send officials to that meeting in order to hold discussions about how approaches to research into Parkinson's can be better co-ordinated?
Cefais wybod yn ddiweddar am sefydliad o'r enw Cure Parkinson's Trust, sy'n ariannu ymchwil sylweddol yn ei genhadaeth i wella therapïau a chanfod gwellhad yn y pen draw i glefyd Parkinson. Bu farw fy nhad-cu o glefyd Parkinson flynyddoedd lawer yn ôl. Mae un o fy etholwyr, David Murray, sy'n gyn-aelod o Gyngor Dinas Casnewydd, yn un o ymddiriedolwyr y sefydliad. Mae'n byw gyda chlefyd Parkinson ei hun. Euthum i'w weld y diwrnod o'r blaen. Mae'n ymgyrchu'n ddiflino dros bobl sydd â'r cyflwr hwn. Mae'r ymddiriedolaeth yn cynnal cyfarfod diweddaru ymchwil pwysig yn Llundain ddydd Llun nesaf, 28 Hydref, ac mae'r sector gwyddorau bywyd yn rhan gynyddol bwysig o economi Cymru ac mae angen datblygu a chydgysylltu cydymdrechion ymchwil niwrolegol yn well â'r rhai sy'n digwydd dros y ffin er budd pobl Cymru, a dyna ran o bwrpas y cyfarfod sy'n digwydd. Rwy'n sylweddoli nad yw'n rhoi llawer o rybudd i'r Gweinidog, ond a fyddai'n fodlon mynychu'r cyfarfod ei hun neu anfon swyddogion i'r cyfarfod er mwyn cynnal trafodaethau ynglŷn â sut y gellir cydgysylltu agweddau ar ymchwil i glefyd Parkinson yn well?
Yes, I can confirm that I've got a full programme of ministerial business that means that I won't be able to attend myself. I'll check with my officials about the level of our engagement with the Cure Parkinson's Trust. I don't think there has been official engagement with officials at present, but I want to say it's not just about whether they can or can't attend the short-notice event next week, but to understand the ongoing work that is already going in this field and a potential role, or otherwise, for the Cure Parkinson's Trust.
I think it is important to recognise that with the range of conditions we have today, it is possible there will be not just treatments to slow down the progression of the disease but actually the potential for curative treatments in the future. So, I will maintain an interest and I'll ask my officials to keep me up to date. And I'll happily meet the Member afterwards to get him up to date on where we are together with the Cure Parkinson's Trust.FootnoteLink
Gallaf gadarnhau bod gennyf raglen lawn o fusnes gweinidogol sy'n golygu na fyddaf yn gallu mynychu fy hun. Fe holaf fy swyddogion am lefel ein hymgysylltiad â Cure Parkinson's Trust. Nid wyf yn credu bod unrhyw gysylltiad swyddogol â swyddogion ar hyn o bryd, ond rwyf am ddweud nad mater syml o allu neu fethu mynd i'r digwyddiad ar fyr-rybudd yr wythnos nesaf yw hyn, ond yr angen i ddeall y gwaith parhaus sydd eisoes yn mynd rhagddo yn y maes hwn a rôl bosibl, neu fel arall, i Cure Parkinson's Trust.
Rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig cydnabod, gyda'r ystod o gyflyrau sydd gennym heddiw, ei bod yn bosibl nid yn unig y bydd triniaethau ar gael i arafu datblygiad y clefyd ond hefyd y potensial ar gyfer triniaethau iachaol yn y dyfodol. Felly, byddaf yn parhau i fod â diddordeb a byddaf yn gofyn i fy swyddogion roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i mi. Ac rwy'n fwy na pharod i gyfarfod â'r Aelod wedyn i roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf iddo ynglŷn â ble rydym arni o ran ein cysylltiad â Cure Parkinson's Trust.FootnoteLink
7. Sut y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn cefnogi gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl yng Nghanolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru? OAQ54585
7. How is the Welsh Government supporting mental health services in Mid and West Wales? OAQ54585
We're providing support in a number of ways, including increasing our investment in the mental health ring fence across Wales to £679 million in 2019-20. We're also investing in prevention and early intervention in mid and west Wales, for example through our schools inreach and social prescribing pilots.
Rydym yn darparu cymorth mewn nifer o ffyrdd, gan gynnwys cynyddu ein buddsoddiad mewn trefniadau clustnodi ar gyfer iechyd meddwl ledled Cymru i £679 miliwn yn 2019-20. Rydym hefyd yn buddsoddi mewn atal ac ymyrraeth gynnar yng nghanolbarth a gorllewin Cymru, er enghraifft drwy ein cynlluniau mewngymorth ysgolion a chynlluniau presgripsiynu cymdeithasol.
Thank you for that answer, but this month the innovative out-of-hours mental health service, the Twilight Sanctuary, is being launched in Llanelli, and the service that is run by Mind and Hafal was commissioned by Hywel Dda health board, Dyfed-Powys Police and Carmarthenshire council. And it's one of the first projects from the transforming mental health programme and the first of its kind in Wales. It's a great example of what can be achieved by working collaboratively. It'll allow people with deteriorating mental health to access help when services are usually closed, and that would be Thursday to Sunday, between 6 p.m. and 2 a.m. in the morning. Minister, what I'd be keen to know is if you are aware, after this pilot—if that's what it is—has been assessed, to launch similar programmes across mid and west Wales.
Diolch am eich ateb, ond y mis hwn mae'r gwasanaeth iechyd meddwl arloesol y tu allan i oriau arferol, The Twilight Sanctuary, yn cael ei lansio yn Llanelli, ac fe gomisiynwyd y gwasanaeth sy'n cael ei redeg gan Mind a Hafal gan fwrdd iechyd Hywel Dda, Heddlu Dyfed-Powys a Chyngor Sir Gaerfyrddin. Ac mae'n un o brosiectau cyntaf y rhaglen trawsnewid iechyd meddwl a'r cyntaf o'i fath yng Nghymru. Mae'n enghraifft wych o'r hyn y gellir ei gyflawni drwy weithio ar y cyd. Bydd yn galluogi pobl ag iechyd meddwl sy'n dirywio i gael help pan fydd gwasanaethau fel arfer ar gau, sef rhwng dydd Iau a dydd Sul, rhwng 6 p.m. a 2 a.m. yn y bore. Weinidog, rwy'n awyddus i weld a ydych yn gwybod, ar ôl i'r cynllun peilot hwn—os mai dyna ydyw—gael ei asesu, a fwriedir lansio rhaglenni tebyg ar draws canolbarth a gorllewin Cymru.
Yes, I will be interested in the evaluation from the pilot to understand not if it's applicable to mid and west Wales but, actually, if it's potential national learning as well. In the transformation fund that we launched alongside 'A Healthier Wales', we were really clear about wanting to understand projects that weren't just applicable to a small community but had the potential to scale up to a region and across the country. I'm always interested in supporting and understanding innovation, including understanding when that innovation may not lead to that wider spread, but to understand what learning we can take from that and what we do about the whole system. It is worth noting that the transforming mental health services programme that Hywel Dda started and launched in September 2017 is aligned with the vision and the values that underpin 'A Healthier Wales'. So, yes, I'll maintain an interest and, at some point, it may be possible to visit together with the constituency Member.
Bydd gennyf ddiddordeb yn y gwerthusiad o'r peilot, nid i weld a oes modd ei ddefnyddio yng nghanolbarth a gorllewin Cymru, ond i weld a yw'n cynnig gwersi cenedlaethol hefyd. Yn y gronfa drawsnewid a lansiwyd gennym ochr yn ochr â 'Cymru Iachach', roeddem yn glir iawn ynglŷn â'n hawydd i ddeall prosiectau a oedd nid yn unig yn gymwys i gymuned fach ond a oedd â photensial i gael eu gwneud ar raddfa fwy ar gyfer rhanbarth ac ar draws y wlad. Mae gennyf ddiddordeb bob amser mewn cefnogi a deall arloesedd, gan gynnwys deall pan na fydd arloesedd o'r fath yn arwain at ledaeniad ehangach o bosibl, ond i ddeall pa wersi y gallwn eu dysgu ohono a beth a wnawn am y system gyfan. Mae'n werth nodi bod y rhaglen trawsnewid gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl a ddechreuwyd ac a lansiwyd gan Hywel Dda ym mis Medi 2017 yn cyd-fynd â'r weledigaeth a'r gwerthoedd sy'n sail i 'Cymru Iachach'. Felly, byddaf yn parhau i fod â diddordeb ac ar ryw adeg, efallai y bydd yn bosibl ymweld â'r prosiect gyda'r Aelod etholaeth.
Cwestiwn 8, yn olaf, Llyr Gruffydd.
Finally, question 8, Llyr Gruffydd.
8. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am y defnydd o ymgynghorwyr allanol gan Fwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr? OAQ54597
8. Will the Minister make a statement on the use of external consultants by Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board? OAQ54597
The health board uses external consultants to provide additional expertise in specific areas. This has recently included specialist turnaround expertise to urgently address its financial position and deliver on the recommendations and feedback from the Public Accounts Committee and the finance delivery unit.
Mae'r bwrdd iechyd yn defnyddio ymgynghorwyr allanol i ddarparu arbenigedd ychwanegol mewn meysydd penodol. Yn ddiweddar, mae hyn wedi cynnwys arbenigedd datrys problemau i fynd i'r afael â'i sefyllfa ariannol ar frys a chyflawni'r argymhellion ac adborth gan y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus a'r uned cyflenwi cyllid.
Wel, un o’r bobl hynny yw Philip Burns, sydd wedi cael ei gyflogi gan y bwrdd, mae’n debyg, i fod yn rhan o’r broses o geisio adnabod cyfleoedd i arbed pres. Nawr, yn ôl y sôn, mae e’n cael ei dalu £2,000 y dydd, ynghyd â chostau i deithio nôl ac ymlaen o Marbella. Dwi wedi gofyn i’r bwrdd iechyd i gadarnhau ydy hyn yn wir ers dros fis. Dwi ddim wedi cael ymateb, ac felly dwi wedi cael fy ngorfodi i gyflwyno cais rhyddid gwybodaeth.
Nawr, dyma’r gŵr, wrth gwrs, mae’n debyg, sydd y tu ôl i’r bwriad i newid rotas nyrsys—rhywbeth sydd wedi achosi cryn ofid ymhlith nyrsys yn y gogledd ac, yn wir, wedi tanseilio llawer o’r ewyllys da sydd rhwng nyrsys a’u cyflogwyr. Nawr, mae’n debyg bod ei gyflog e’n fwy sylweddol na’r arbedion fydd hynny’n yn eu cynhyrchu. Ond ta waith am hynny, fy nghwestiwn i yw: oni ddylai fod yna fwy o dryloywder o gwmpas y modd y mae’r bobl allanol yma yn cael eu cyflogi? Ac onid ydych chi’n cytuno â fi ei bod hi’n gwbl annerbyniol fy mod i wedi cysylltu ers dros fis â’r bwrdd i ofyn am y manylion hynny a fy mod i dal heb gael ateb?
Well, one of those people is Philip Burns, who has been employed by the board, it would seem, to be part of the process of identifying opportunities to save money. Now, apparently, he is paid £2,000 per day, along with travel costs back and forth from Marbella. I’ve asked the health board to confirm whether this is true for over a month, and I’ve not received a response, and therefore I’ve been forced to present a freedom of information request.
Now, this is the man who is, apparently, behind the intention to change nursing rotas, apparently, which is something that’s caused great concern among nurses in north Wales and does undermine much of the goodwill that has existed between nurses and their employers. Now, it appears that his salary is greater than the savings that that would generate. But never mind about that, my question is: shouldn’t there be more transparency around the way these external consultants are employed? And wouldn’t you agree with me that it’s entirely unacceptable that I contacted the board over a month ago to ask for those details but still haven’t had a response?
I think there are a couple of different points. I'm not at all aware whether the interim recovery director is responsible for the ongoing consultation with trade unions around nursing rosters. I don't think that's a fair point to make in this debate.
There is an entirely legitimate question, though, about the transparency on information about the terms on which consultants are engaged and the costs of them. I should point out, though, that the costs in terms of the annual increase are higher within the Welsh system, pretty expected within the English system. We need to deliver a significant turnaround and recovery in the finance function of Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board, and we're at a point where the previous interventions have not worked to deliver the real traction that is required. I expect that health board to deliver against that—not just to come up with a list of opportunities that have not been taken, but actually to make progress on opportunities that do exist to improve their finance function. That does not mean that every single one of those compromises the ability to deliver healthcare of the quality that you and everyone else in this Chamber expects.
Yes, I will, though, talk to the health board about the provision of information, because you should not have to ask over quite such a long period of time for them to provide information that should be available to you and other public representatives.
Rwy'n credu bod yna un neu ddau o wahanol bwyntiau yn codi. Nid wyf yn ymwybodol o gwbl a yw'r cyfarwyddwr adfer dros dro yn gyfrifol am yr ymgynghoriad parhaus ag undebau llafur ynghylch rhestrau dyletswyddau nyrsys. Nid wyf yn credu bod hwnnw'n bwynt teg i'w wneud yn y ddadl hon.
Mae cwestiwn cwbl ddilys, serch hynny, yn codi ynghylch tryloywder gwybodaeth ynglŷn â thelerau cyflogi ymgynghorwyr a'u costau. Er bod y costau o ran y cynnydd blynyddol yn uwch yn y system yng Nghymru, dylwn nodi eu bod at ei gilydd yn debyg i'r disgwyl yn y system yn Lloegr. Mae angen i ni sicrhau bod problemau'n cael eu datrys ac adferiad sylweddol yn digwydd yn swyddogaeth gyllidol Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr, ac rydym ar bwynt lle nad yw'r ymyriadau blaenorol wedi gweithio i sicrhau'r newid gwirioneddol sydd ei angen. Disgwyliaf i'r bwrdd iechyd gyflawni hynny—nid yn unig i gynnig rhestr o gyfleoedd nad ydynt wedi'u cymryd, ond i wneud cynnydd mewn gwirionedd ar gyfleoedd sy'n bodoli i wella eu swyddogaeth gyllidol. Nid yw hynny'n golygu bod pob un o'r rheini'n ddieithriad yn peryglu'r gallu i ddarparu gofal iechyd o'r ansawdd rydych chi a phawb arall yn y Siambr hon yn ei ddisgwyl.
Er hynny, byddaf yn siarad â'r bwrdd iechyd ynglŷn â darparu gwybodaeth, oherwydd ni ddylech orfod gofyn dros gyfnod mor hir iddynt ddarparu gwybodaeth a ddylai fod ar gael i chi a chynrychiolwyr cyhoeddus eraill.
Diolch i'r Gweinidog.
Thank you, Minister.
Yr eitem nesaf, felly, yw'r cwestiynau amserol ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf i'w ateb gan y Gweinidog Brexit ac i'w ofyn gan Andrew R.T. Davies.
The next item is the topical questions and the first question is to be answered by the Brexit Minister, and the question is to be asked by Andrew R.T. Davies.
1. Yng ngoleuni Tŷ'r Cyffredin neithiwr yn cymeradwyo bargen Brexit am y tro cyntaf ers y refferendwm ar ffurf Bil Cytundeb Ymadael y Prif Weinidog, a wnaiff y Cwnsler Cyffredinol ddatganiad i'r Cynulliad? 356
1. In light of the House of Commons last night approving a Brexit deal for the first time since the referendum in the form of the Prime Minister's Withdrawal Agreement Bill, will the Counsel General make a statement to the Assembly? 356
Parliament did not approve the damaging Brexit deal. It merely voted in favour of the legislation to progress to the next phase, where I fully expect significant amendments to be made. I'm pleased that Parliament has agreed with this National Assembly that we reject the attempt to bounce this legislation through just to satisfy an artificial deadline set by the Prime Minister.
Ni wnaeth y Senedd gymeradwyo'r cytundeb Brexit niweidiol. Dim ond pleidleisio o blaid y ddeddfwriaeth i symud ymlaen i'r cam nesaf a wnaeth, lle rwy'n llawn ddisgwyl i welliannau sylweddol gael eu gwneud. Rwy'n falch bod y Senedd wedi cytuno â'r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol hwn ein bod yn gwrthod yr ymgais i wthio'r ddeddfwriaeth hon drwodd i gyd-fynd â therfyn amser artiffisial a bennwyd gan y Prif Weinidog.
What was pleasing last night was the Prime Minister recognising, in his closing remarks, that, for the first time since the referendum, Parliament had actually agreed something in wanting the withdrawal agreement to go forward to further stages. What is not entirely clear is exactly why the First Minister here is so hell bent on blocking any progress on this particular issue. Today, for example, he has stood shoulder to shoulder with Nicola Sturgeon, the First Minister of Scotland, and called the withdrawal agreement either 'in purgatory', but it is 'not yet dead'—those are his words that he used at the press conference. Do you not think a more appropriate description of the Bill is that:
'One way or another we will leave the EU with this deal to which this House has just given its assent',
which is what the Prime Minister has said? And, instead of blocking the will of the Welsh people, which was shown in the referendum of 2016, the First Minister should be putting his shoulder to the wheel and working with the Prime Minister to deliver on that referendum result and to deliver on this withdrawal agreement that is agreed with the European Union and is endorsed by the Republic of Ireland as well?
Roedd hi'n braf gweld y Prif Weinidog yn cydnabod neithiwr, yn ei sylwadau i gloi, fod y Senedd, am y tro cyntaf ers y refferendwm, wedi cytuno ar rywbeth drwy fod eisiau i'r cytundeb ymadael symud ymlaen i gyfnodau pellach. Nid yw'n gwbl glir pam yn union y mae Prif Weinidog Cymru mor benderfynol o rwystro unrhyw gynnydd ar y mater hwn. Heddiw, er enghraifft, mae wedi sefyll ysgwydd wrth ysgwydd â Nicola Sturgeon, Prif Weinidog yr Alban, ac wedi dweud bod y cytundeb ymadael 'ym mhurdan', ond 'nad yw'n farw eto'—dyna'r geiriau a ddefnyddiodd yn y gynhadledd i'r wasg. Oni chredwch mai disgrifiad mwy priodol o'r Bil yw:
Un ffordd neu'r llall byddwn yn gadael yr UE gyda'r cytundeb hwn y mae'r Tŷ newydd roi ei gydsyniad iddo,
sef yr hyn a ddywedodd Prif Weinidog y DU? Ac yn hytrach na rhwystro ewyllys pobl Cymru, fel y'i dangoswyd yn refferendwm 2016, dylai Prif Weinidog Cymru arwain y ffordd a gweithio gyda'r Prif Weinidog i gyflawni canlyniad y refferendwm hwnnw a chyflawni'r cytundeb ymadael hwn a gytunwyd gyda'r Undeb Ewropeaidd ac a gymeradwyir gan Weriniaeth Iwerddon hefyd?
Can I just first gently welcome the fact that the Member is choosing to bring a matter related to Brexit to the Chamber? He has spent the last few weeks decrying the fact that the Welsh Government has sought opportunities to discuss Brexit here, so I welcome his conversion to the cause of scrutiny and transparency in the context of Brexit, and maybe he could seek—[Interruption.]—maybe he could seek to persuade his colleagues in Parliament of the virtues of scrutiny and transparency in the same way.
I don't know what it is about this deal that the Member thinks is remotely in the interests of Wales. We would like to be able to debate this on the basis of economic evidence, but, of course, the UK Government hasn't provided that. But what we do know is that the deal does not contain any meaningful guarantee of alignment with the kind of rights that people in Wales are entitled to expect. It contains a 'no deal' trapdoor at the end of 2020 and a deferred 'no deal' prospect. And it fails to provide for the kind of final say on this deal, which, if the Prime Minister had any confidence in the strength of his deal, he'd have no hesitation in putting to the people.
A gaf fi yn gyntaf fentro croesawu'r ffaith bod yr Aelod yn dewis dod â mater sy'n ymwneud â Brexit i'r Siambr? Mae wedi treulio'r wythnosau diwethaf yn dilorni'r ffaith bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi chwilio am gyfleoedd i drafod Brexit yma, felly rwy'n croesawu ei dröedigaeth o blaid craffu a thryloywder yng nghyd-destun Brexit, ac efallai y gallai geisio—[Torri ar draws.]—efallai y gallai geisio perswadio ei gyd-Aelodau yn y Senedd ynglŷn â rhinweddau craffu a thryloywder yn yr un modd.
Nid wyf yn gwybod beth y mae'r Aelod yn credu sydd o fudd i Gymru mewn unrhyw fodd yn y cytundeb hwn. Hoffem allu trafod hyn ar sail tystiolaeth economaidd, ond wrth gwrs, nid yw Llywodraeth y DU wedi darparu hynny. Ond fe wyddom nad yw'r cytundeb yn cynnwys unrhyw warant ystyrlon o ymlyniad wrth y math o hawliau y mae gan bobl yng Nghymru hawl i'w disgwyl. Mae'n cynnwys trapddor 'dim cytundeb' ar ddiwedd 2020 a rhagolwg o 'dim cytundeb' wedi'i ohirio. Ac nid yw'n darparu'r math o lais terfynol ar y cytundeb hwn, na fyddai'r Prif Weinidog, pe bai ganddo unrhyw hyder yng nghryfder ei gytundeb, yn petruso dim cyn ei gyflwyno i'r bobl.
Minister, I don't know whether you had a chance to watch Prime Minister's Questions before today's Plenary session. If you did, you will have seen the SNP Westminster leader ask the Prime Minister whether he conceded that the consent of the devolved Parliaments would be necessary for the withdrawal agreement Bill to proceed. Now, we in this Chamber would normally take that for granted, since they've actually contacted us asking for our explicit consent for the withdrawal agreement Bill to go on, which is what we would expect under the Sewel convention. But Boris Johnson told the House of Commons that the Scottish Parliament, and by extension the Senedd, have no role in approving the deal.
Now, let's be clear what this entails. He's asked this place to give its explicit consent, but he's already now said that he will take no heed of what we say before we've even voted on the LCM, which has only just been published. So, that's really a serious breach of the Sewel convention. Actually, I'd go so far as to say it's constitutional vandalism by a Prime Minister willing to destroy the principles of devolution just to get what he wants—this billionaire's Brexit. So, I'd ask you, Minister—you recently published a set of minimum reforms that should be put in place to save the union. These included putting Sewel on a statutory, even codified, footing, so that Westminster could not legislate in devolved areas without our permission. Do you agree with me that Boris Johnson's trashing of Sewel today means that your proposals, however well meaning, have not only been ignored, but maliciously undermined?
Now, Plaid Cymru's solution to this is clear: we want an independence referendum so all decisions affecting Wales can be made in Wales, guaranteeing that no Westminster Government can damage our country ever again. I know you don't agree with independence, Minister, but could you tell me how you will react to this blatant attack on the Senedd's powers? I'm not talking of words, I'm talking of actions: what will you do to protect our institutional integrity in the face of these continual assaults on devolution by Boris Johnson's morally bankrupt Government?
Weinidog, nid wyf yn gwybod a gawsoch gyfle i wylio'r Cwestiynau i'r Prif Weinidog cyn y Cyfarfod Llawn heddiw. Os gwnaethoch, byddwch wedi gweld arweinydd yr SNP yn San Steffan yn gofyn i'r Prif Weinidog a oedd yn cyfaddef y byddai angen cydsyniad y Seneddau datganoledig er mwyn i'r Bil cytundeb ymadael fynd yn ei flaen. Nawr, byddem ni yn y Siambr hon fel arfer yn cymryd hynny yn ganiataol, gan eu bod wedi cysylltu â ni yn gofyn am ein cydsyniad penodol i'r Bil cytundeb ymadael fynd yn ei blaen, sef yr hyn y byddem yn ei ddisgwyl o dan gonfensiwn Sewel. Ond dywedodd Boris Johnson wrth Dŷ'r Cyffredin nad oes gan Senedd yr Alban, ac yn sgil hynny, y Senedd hon, unrhyw rôl yn cymeradwyo'r cytundeb.
Nawr, gadewch i ni fod yn glir beth y mae hyn yn ei olygu. Mae wedi gofyn i'r lle hwn roi ei gydsyniad penodol, ond mae eisoes wedi dweud yn awr na fydd yn gwrando ar yr hyn a ddywedwn cyn i ni hyd yn oed bleidleisio ar y cynnig cydsyniad deddfwriaethol sydd newydd ei gyhoeddi. Felly, mae hynny'n achos difrifol o dorri confensiwn Sewel. Mewn gwirionedd, buaswn yn mynd mor bell â dweud ei fod yn fandaliaeth gyfansoddiadol gan Brif Weinidog sy'n barod i ddinistrio egwyddorion datganoli er mwyn cael yr hyn y mae ei eisiau—y Brexit hwn i biliwnyddiwn. Felly, rwyf am ofyn i chi, Weinidog—yn ddiweddar, fe gyhoeddoch chi set o ddiwygiadau sylfaenol y dylid eu rhoi ar waith er mwyn achub yr undeb. Roedd y rhain yn cynnwys rhoi Sewel ar sail statudol, wedi'i chodeiddio hyd yn oed, fel na allai San Steffan ddeddfu mewn meysydd datganoledig heb ein caniatâd ni. A ydych yn cytuno â mi fod y modd mae Boris Johnson wedi diystyru Sewel heddiw yn golygu bod eich cynigion chi, waeth pa mor dda yw eu bwriad, nid yn unig wedi'u hanwybyddu, ond wedi'u tanseilio'n faleisus?
Nawr, mae ateb Plaid Cymru i hyn yn glir: rydym eisiau refferendwm annibyniaeth fel bod modd gwneud pob penderfyniad sy'n effeithio ar Gymru yng Nghymru, gan warantu na all unrhyw Lywodraeth San Steffan niweidio ein gwlad byth eto. Gwn nad ydych yn cytuno ag annibyniaeth, Weinidog, ond a allech ddweud wrthyf sut y byddwch yn ymateb i'r ymosodiad digywilydd hwn ar bwerau'r Senedd hon? Nid wyf yn sôn am eiriau, rwy'n sôn am weithredoedd: beth fyddwch chi'n ei wneud i ddiogelu ein huniondeb sefydliadol yn wyneb yr ymosodiadau parhaus hyn ar ddatganoli gan Lywodraeth anfoesol Boris Johnson?
Well, the UK Government has, of course, written to the Welsh Government seeking the consent of the National Assembly in relation to the withdrawal agreement Bill, and, as she will know from the legislative consent memorandum that the Government has laid, the Government's view is that there are a range of other consents beyond those that the UK Government has sought from the Assembly that we are entitled to expect to be considered. I just don't know, quite candidly, what grasp the Prime Minister has of any of this. It seems to me that he has scant regard for any of the things that we would have regarded as constitutionally uncontroversial at any point in the last century. His attempt to exclude Parliament from consideration of these matters was itself extraordinary, and it comes as no surprise to me that he fails to understand the actions taken by other parts of his Government to seek the consent of this Assembly.
She is right to say that the Welsh Government's position is that Sewel needs reform, and I appreciate her reference to the First Minister's paper published two weeks ago. I think the case made in that document is strengthened by the remarks that she has just reported to this Assembly.
Wel, mae Llywodraeth y DU, wrth gwrs, wedi ysgrifennu at Lywodraeth Cymru yn gofyn am gydsyniad y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol mewn perthynas â Bil y cytundeb ymadael, ac fel y bydd hi'n gwybod o'r memorandwm cydsyniad deddfwriaethol a gyflwynwyd gan y Llywodraeth, barn y Llywodraeth yw bod amryw o gydsyniadau eraill y tu hwnt i'r rhai y mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi'u ceisio gan y Cynulliad y mae gennym hawl i ddisgwyl iddynt gael eu hystyried. Yn hollol onest, nid wyf yn gwybod pa ddealltwriaeth sydd gan Brif Weinidog y DU o ddim o hyn. Mae'n ymddangos i mi nad yw'n malio rhyw lawer am nemor ddim o'r pethau y byddem wedi eu hystyried yn annadleuol yn gyfansoddiadol ar unrhyw adeg yn y ganrif ddiwethaf. Roedd ei ymgais i eithrio'r Senedd rhag ystyried y materion hyn ynddo'i hun yn anhygoel, ac nid yw'n syndod i mi nad yw'n deall y camau a gymerwyd gan rannau eraill o'i Lywodraeth i geisio cydsyniad y Cynulliad hwn.
Mae hi'n iawn i ddweud mai safbwynt Llywodraeth Cymru yw bod angen diwygio Sewel, ac rwy'n derbyn ei chyfeiriad at bapur Prif Weinidog Cymru a gyhoeddwyd bythefnos yn ôl. Rwy'n credu bod yr achos a wnaed yn y ddogfen honno wedi'i gryfhau gan y sylwadau y mae hi newydd eu hadrodd i'r Cynulliad hwn.
Whilst I share the Welsh Government's reservations about having a line drawn in the middle of the Irish sea, and therefore making Northern Ireland effectively part of the EU, rather than the UK, for trade purposes, isn't the real problem here that the Labour Party, and indeed all of the remainer-supporting parties in the House of Commons, fundamentally will do everything they possibly can—they will use every excuse, however tawdry, threadbare or moth-eaten—to try to prevent Brexit actually being delivered? The people of this country, as he knows, voted in 2016— 17.5 million of them—in the largest democratic vote ever in Britain, to leave the EU. We have remainer Parliaments at Westminster, in Edinburgh and here in Wales, and they are the ones who are putting a spanner in the works. So, all the excuses that he gives for opposing this agreement must be seen in the light of that. Whatever the Government presents, they will be against it, because they want Britain to remain in the EU, unlike the people of this country, who voted to leave.
Er fy mod yn rhannu amheuon Llywodraeth Cymru ynghylch tynnu llinell yng nghanol môr Iwerddon, a gwneud Gogledd Iwerddon yn rhan o'r UE i bob pwrpas, yn hytrach na'r DU, at ddibenion masnach, onid y broblem go iawn yma yw y byddai'r Blaid Lafur, a phob un o'r pleidiau yn Nhŷ'r Cyffredin sy'n cefnogi aros yn wir, yn gwneud popeth yn eu gallu yn y bôn—byddant yn defnyddio pob esgus, waeth pa mor denau, gwan a thila—i geisio atal Brexit rhag digwydd mewn gwirionedd? Pleidleisiodd pobl y wlad hon, fel y gŵyr, yn 2016—17.5 miliwn ohonynt—yn y bleidlais ddemocrataidd fwyaf erioed ym Mhrydain, o blaid gadael yr UE. Mae gennym Seneddau yn San Steffan, yng Nghaeredin ac yma yng Nghymru sy'n ffafrio aros, a hwy yw'r rhai sy'n llesteirio pethau. Felly, rhaid gweld yr holl esgusodion a rydd dros wrthwynebu'r cytundeb hwn yng ngoleuni hynny. Beth bynnag a gyflwynir gan y Llywodraeth, byddant yn ei erbyn, oherwydd maent am i Brydain aros yn yr UE, yn wahanol i bobl y wlad, a bleidleisiodd dros adael.
I think there's something quite remarkable about elected representatives and parliamentarians who are prepared to connive and attempt to deny elected representatives the opportunity to scrutinise important legislation. I just think that fails to meet up to the standards the public expect of us. I'll remind the Member, if he needs reminding, that not a single member of the public have been asked to vote on the deal that he has agreed with the European Union—not a single member of the public had that deal in front of them when they cast their vote in 2016, and, if the Prime Minister is as confident as he claims to be about the virtues and value of that deal to the UK, it's about time he put it to the public.
Rwy'n credu bod rhywbeth digon rhyfeddol ynglŷn â chynrychiolwyr etholedig a seneddwyr sy'n barod i gydgynllwynio a cheisio gwadu cyfle i gynrychiolwyr etholedig graffu ar ddeddfwriaeth bwysig. Yn fy marn i, mae hynny'n dangos methiant i gyrraedd y safonau y mae'r cyhoedd yn eu disgwyl gennym. Fe atgoffaf yr Aelod, os oes angen ei atgoffa, na ofynnwyd i unrhyw aelod o'r cyhoedd bleidleisio ar y cytundeb y mae wedi ei gytuno gyda'r Undeb Ewropeaidd—ni chafodd yr un aelod o'r cyhoedd weld y cytundeb hwnnw wrth iddynt fwrw eu pleidlais yn 2016, ac os yw'r Prif Weinidog mor hyderus ag y mae'n honni ei fod ynghylch rhinweddau a gwerth y cytundeb i'r DU, mae'n hen bryd iddo ei roi gerbron y cyhoedd.
Diolch i'r Gweinidog Brexit.
Mae'r cwestiwn nesaf i'w ofyn i'r Gweinidog Economi a Thrafnidiaeth, ac mae'r cwestiwn i'w ofyn gan Rhun ap Iorwerth.
Thank you to the Brexit Minister.
The next question is to be asked of the Minister for Economy and Transport, and the question is to be asked by Rhun ap Iorwerth.
2. Pa drafodaethau fydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cynnal gyda’r awdurdodau perthnasol yng ngoleuni’r newyddion trasig bod cyrff 39 o bobl wedi’u darganfod mewn cynhwysydd lori yn Essex ar ôl iddynt ddod i mewn i’r DU trwy Gaergybi? 357
2. What discussions will the Welsh Government hold with the relevant authorities in light of the tragic news that the bodies of 39 people were found in a lorry container in Essex, having entered the UK via Holyhead? 357
Llywydd, I'd like to begin by putting on the record the thoughts of myself and the entire Welsh Government—our thoughts are with the families who are suffering truly horrific news today. You'll understand that I don't have all of the details of this terrible incident, and I think it is right and proper that a full police investigation takes place into the incident. Suffice it to say that, as a Welsh Government, we will, of course, play our full and collaborative part in that investigation relating to our areas of responsibility, in any passage that the vehicle involved may have made through Wales.
Lywydd, hoffwn ddechrau drwy gofnodi fy meddyliau i a holl Lywodraeth Cymru—mae ein meddyliau gyda'r teuluoedd sy'n dioddef yn sgil y newyddion gwirioneddol erchyll heddiw. Fe fyddwch yn deall nad yw'r holl fanylion am y digwyddiad ofnadwy hwn gennyf, ac rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n iawn ac yn briodol fod ymchwiliad llawn yn cael ei gynnal gan yr heddlu i'r digwyddiad. Digon yw dweud wrth gwrs, fel Llywodraeth Cymru, y byddwn yn chwarae ein rhan lawn a chydweithredol yn yr ymchwiliad mewn perthynas â'n meysydd cyfrifoldeb, o ran unrhyw daith y gallai'r cerbyd dan sylw fod wedi'i wneud drwy Gymru.
Diolch am yr ymateb yna, Weinidog. Mae hwn yn achos sy'n torri calon, bod 39 o bobl wedi teimlo'r angen i roi eu bywydau mewn perig fel hyn, a bod y 39 wedi colli eu bywydau mewn ffordd mor erchyll. Mae fy nghydymdeimlad innau efo nhw a'u teuluoedd. Waeth pa mor bell o gartref mae rhywun yn colli bywyd, yr un ydy'r galar. Mae yna lawer o gwestiynau yn codi o'r hyn—cwestiynau dyngarol, yn sicr, am pam mae'r unigolion wedi cael eu gyrru i gymryd y cam yma, ond mae yna gwestiynau ymarferol yn codi hefyd, wrth gwrs.
Thank you for that response, Minister. This is a heartbreaking case, that 39 people felt the need to put their lives at risk in this way and that those 39 people lost their lives in such a horrific manner. My sympathies are with them and their families. No matter how far from home they may have been, the grief is the same. Now, there are many questions arising from this—humanitarian questions, certainly, about why these individuals had been driven to take this step, but there are also practical questions arising too.
What we need to do immediately, I think, is to start to ask some of the practical questions about how and why. These questions need to be asked alongside the police investigations that clearly will be beginning immediately. How is it that this lorry was able to pass through Holyhead undetected in this way? Why did those on board, or others associated with this tragedy, decide that Dublin-Holyhead was to be the chosen crossing? I've heard people complain that somehow EU membership was to blame for Holyhead being a rather too open border. Let me say that decisions to cut jobs over the years at Holyhead have been nothing to do with the EU and far predate any discussions on Brexit; they've been about cuts and austerity and nothing else. So, what assurances have you sought, Minister, about the level of border control staffing at Holyhead, including a lack of permanent immigration enforcement officers? I and others, like the Police and Crime Commissioner for North Wales, Arfon Jones, have long raised concerns about fears of a lack of border resources at Holyhead. The commissioner got a response from the Home Office when he pursued this, saying the Government is aware of the vulnerabilities of the common travel area—aware, perhaps, but what did they do about it in terms of increasing resource?
Alex Carlile QC, when he was a reviewer of anti-terror legislation, was raising issues around border policing and anti-terror measures at Holyhead 20 years ago. In so many ways, Holyhead has been overlooked as a port, I fear. Whilst Dover is firmly on the agenda as the UK's busiest roll-on, roll-off ferry port, Holyhead seems ignored as the second busiest, with about 400,000 lorries passing through annually. This is not acceptable, either in the context of Brexit and the ignoring of Holyhead in the Yellowhammer document, for example, or now in the context of immigration and this tragic loss of human life. As we know, it's thought that the lorry came from Bulgaria and arrived in Wales on Saturday in Holyhead. Seamus Leheny, Northern Ireland policy manager for the Freight Transport Association, is quoted by the Press Association today as saying:
'If the lorry came from Bulgaria,'—
as we believe it did—
'getting into Britain via Holyhead is an unorthodox route.'
He went on to say:
'People have been saying that security and checks have been increased at places like Dover and Calais, so it might be seen as an easier way to get in by going from Cherbourg or Roscoff over to Rosslare, then up the road to Dublin.'
It's a long way around, he said, and it'll add an extra day to the journey. The question I think we need to ask is: has a lack of resource put in by the Home Office in Holyhead made our ports vulnerable and in so doing added to the already significant vulnerability of these 39 who have now been found dead? I spoke with one Holyhead councillor earlier today, Councillor Trefor Lloyd Hughes, about how he too had been raising these concerns for some time. Will you join him and me in inviting Home Office Ministers to Holyhead to see for themselves why this port needs real investment and to impress on the Home Office the prioritisation that Holyhead deserves as Wales's busiest and the UK's second-busiest roll-on, roll-off ferry port?
Yr hyn y mae angen i ni ei wneud ar unwaith, rwy'n meddwl, yw dechrau gofyn rhai o'r cwestiynau ymarferol ynghylch sut a pham. Mae angen gofyn y cwestiynau hyn ochr yn ochr ag ymchwiliadau'r heddlu a fydd yn amlwg yn dechrau ar unwaith. Sut y gallodd y lori hon fynd drwy Gaergybi heb ei darganfod fel hyn? Pam y penderfynai'r rheini a oedd ynddi, neu eraill a oedd yn gysylltiedig â'r drasiedi hon, mai Dulyn-Caergybi fyddai'r man croesi a ddewiswyd? Rwyf wedi clywed pobl yn cwyno rywsut mai aelodaeth o'r UE oedd ar fai am fod Caergybi yn ffin braidd yn rhy agored. Gadewch i mi ddweud nad oes a wnelo penderfyniadau i dorri swyddi dros y blynyddoedd yng Nghaergybi ddim byd â'r UE ac maent yn mynd yn ôl ymhellach o lawer nag unrhyw drafodaethau ar Brexit; maent wedi ymwneud â thoriadau a chyni a dim byd arall. Felly, pa sicrwydd rydych wedi'i geisio, Weinidog, ynghylch lefel staffio rheoli ffiniau yng Nghaergybi, gan gynnwys diffyg swyddogion gorfodi parhaol ar gyfer mewnfudo? Rwyf fi ac eraill, fel Comisiynydd Heddlu a Throseddu Gogledd Cymru, Arfon Jones, wedi mynegi pryderon ers tro byd ynglŷn ag ofnau ynghylch diffyg adnoddau ffiniau yng Nghaergybi. Cafodd y comisiynydd ymateb gan y Swyddfa Gartref pan aeth ar drywydd hyn, yn dweud bod y Llywodraeth yn ymwybodol o natur fregus yr ardal deithio gyffredin—yn ymwybodol, efallai, ond beth a wnaethant yn ei gylch o ran cynyddu adnoddau?
Roedd Alex Carlile QC, pan oedd yn adolygu deddfwriaeth wrth-derfysgaeth, yn cyfeirio at broblemau gyda phlismona ffiniau a mesurau gwrth-derfysgaeth yng Nghaergybi 20 mlynedd yn ôl. Mewn cymaint o ffyrdd, mae arnaf ofn fod Caergybi wedi cael ei ddiystyru fel porthladd. Er bod Dover yn gadarn ar yr agenda fel porthladd prysuraf y DU ar gyfer llongau fferi gyrru mewn ac allan, ymddengys bod Caergybi yn cael ei anwybyddu fel yr ail brysuraf, gyda thua 400,000 o lorïau yn pasio drwyddo bob blwyddyn. Nid yw hyn yn dderbyniol, yng nghyd-destun Brexit ac anwybyddu Caergybi yn nogfen Yellowhammer, er enghraifft, na nawr yng nghyd-destun mewnfudo a'r fath golli bywyd trasig. Fel y gwyddom, credir bod y lori wedi dod o Fwlgaria ac wedi cyrraedd Cymru ddydd Sadwrn yng Nghaergybi. Dyfynnir Seamus Leheny, rheolwr polisi Gogledd Iwerddon ar gyfer y Sefydliad Trafnidiaeth Cludo Nwyddau, gan Gymdeithas y Wasg heddiw yn dweud:
Pe bai'r lori wedi dod o Fwlgaria—
fel y credwn ei bod—
mae dod i mewn i Brydain drwy Gaergybi yn llwybr anarferol.
Aeth ymlaen i ddweud:
Mae pobl wedi bod yn dweud bod diogelwch ac archwiliadau wedi cynyddu mewn mannau fel Dover a Calais, felly efallai y gellid ei gweld fel ffordd haws i ddod i mewn drwy fynd o Cherbourg neu Roscoff draw i Rosslare, yna i fyny ar hyd y ffordd i Ddulyn.
Mae'n ffordd bell o gwmpas, meddai, ac fe fydd yn ychwanegu diwrnod ychwanegol at y daith. Rwy'n credu mai'r cwestiwn sydd angen i ni ei ofyn yw: a yw'r diffyg adnoddau gan y Swyddfa Gartref i Gaergybi wedi gwneud ein porthladdoedd yn fregus ac wedi ychwanegu at fregusrwydd sylweddol y 39 o bobl a ganfuwyd yn farw yn awr? Siaradais â chynghorydd o Gaergybi yn gynharach heddiw, y Cynghorydd Trefor Lloyd Hughes, ynglŷn â sut y bu yntau hefyd yn mynegi'r pryderon hyn ers cryn amser. A wnewch chi ymuno ag ef a minnau i wahodd Gweinidogion y Swyddfa Gartref i Gaergybi i weld drostynt eu hunain pam y mae angen buddsoddi'n iawn yn y porthladd hwn ac i bwysleisio wrth y Swyddfa Gartref fod Caergybi'n haeddu cael blaenoriaeth fel y porthladd llongau fferi gyrru mewn ac allan prysuraf yng Nghymru, a'r prysuraf ond un yn y DU?
Can I thank Rhun ap Iorwerth for his questions? Of course we will be inviting Home Office Ministers to Holyhead port. Is the port vulnerable? Well, let's allow the investigators to answer that following a thorough inquiry into what's happened. But I can say that, from my experience, there is no lack of professionalism at Holyhead with border security. Whether there is a question about capacity, well, let's let the investigators look closely into that.
I think Rhun ap Iorwerth raises a very serious question of why did 39 people apparently feel the need to put their lives at risk. I do hope that we take time just to acknowledge the terrible loss of life and the damage that this is causing to many families. We don’t know where yet. We don't know their identities, we don't know whether they were indeed from Bulgaria. But I would say this: sometimes it's easy for us to talk about borders in abstract and artificial ways, but the reality is that borders and the arrangements at them are also about people; they're about human lives. And we should, I think, never forget the grave seriousness and the tragic human costs that can occur at those points of crossing. We saw back in 2000 a significant number of lives lost again when more than 50 people, I believe it was, suffocated in the back of a lorry and were discovered in Dover. Numerous people have died in lorries since, and I think we should reflect on the reasons why, most often because people are escaping from appalling conditions.
Llywydd, I don't wish to speculate on the reasons why the lorry appears to have entered the UK through Holyhead. I know that there are certain comments being made by transport experts about it being an unorthodox route, if it was found that the lorry went through Cherbourg to Rosslare then up to Dublin. I really do feel that it's right and proper that the police should investigate the circumstances surrounding this absolute tragedy.
A gaf fi ddiolch i Rhun ap Iorwerth am ei gwestiynau? Wrth gwrs, byddwn yn gwahodd Gweinidogion y Swyddfa Gartref i borthladd Caergybi. A yw'r porthladd yn fregus? Wel, gadewch i ni ganiatáu i'r ymchwilwyr ateb hynny yn dilyn ymchwiliad trylwyr i'r hyn sydd wedi digwydd. Ond o'm profiad i, gallaf ddweud nad oes diffyg proffesiynoldeb yng Nghaergybi o ran diogelwch y ffin. A oes cwestiwn ynglŷn â chapasiti, wel, gadewch i'r ymchwilwyr edrych yn fanwl ar hynny.
Rwy'n meddwl bod Rhun ap Iorwerth yn codi cwestiwn difrifol iawn ynglŷn â pham y mae'n ymddangos bod 39 o bobl wedi teimlo'r angen i beryglu eu bywydau. Rwy'n gobeithio ein bod yn mynd i roi amser i gydnabod y bywydau a gollwyd mor ofnadwy a'r drallod y mae hyn yn ei achosi i lawer o deuluoedd. Ni wyddom ymhle eto. Ni wyddom pwy oeddent, ni wyddom a oeddent yn dod o Fwlgaria yn wir. Ond hoffwn ddweud hyn: weithiau mae'n hawdd i ni siarad am ffiniau mewn ffyrdd haniaethol ac artiffisial, ond y realiti yw bod ffiniau a'r trefniadau wrthynt hefyd yn ymwneud â phobl; maent yn ymwneud â bywydau dynol. Ac ni chredaf y dylem fyth anghofio pa mor ddifrifol yw hyn a'r costau dynol trasig a all ddigwydd yn y mannau croesi hynny. Gwelsom nifer sylweddol o fywydau'n cael eu colli yn ôl yn 2000 pan gafodd mwy na 50 o bobl, rwy'n credu, eu mygu yng nghefn lori a'u darganfod yn Dover. Mae nifer o bobl wedi marw mewn lorïau ers hynny, a chredaf y dylem ystyried y rhesymau pam, gan amlaf oherwydd bod pobl yn dianc rhag amgylchiadau brawychus.
Lywydd, nid wyf am ddyfalu'r rhesymau pam y mae'n ymddangos bod y lori wedi dod i mewn i'r DU drwy Gaergybi. Gwn fod rhai sylwadau'n cael eu gwneud gan arbenigwyr trafnidiaeth ei fod yn llwybr anarferol, os canfyddir bod y lori wedi mynd drwy Cherbourg i Rosslare ac yna i fyny i Ddulyn. Rwy'n teimlo o ddifrif ei bod hi'n iawn ac yn briodol i'r heddlu ymchwilio i'r amgylchiadau sy'n gysylltiedig â'r drasiedi enfawr hon.
Of course, I share your sentiments and pass on my condolences to the families of these people who've suffered a terrible, terrible experience, whatever their motivations in coming here might have been. It's actually several years since I first raised in this Chamber a concern raised with me that Holyhead was a soft spot for people smuggling into the UK. Haven of Light, a non-profit organisation focused on prevention, awareness-raising and support for survivors of modern slavery and human trafficking in north Wales, told me in May that they'd never been able to find any real answers as to whether or not the crossing from Ireland to Holyhead and vice versa are safe, though what they're being told by members of the public and senior clergy is that there are often suspicions that people are being brought into the UK by the ferries at Holyhead. They'd previously told me that the main smuggling lines through Holyhead came from eastern Europe, particularly Romania and Bulgaria, and also from Vietnam, and they also told me that they were told last October that Holyhead was now sorted.
Kevin Hyland OBE, the United Kingdom's first Independent Anti-Slavery Commissioner, having previously been the head of the London Metropolitan Police's human trafficking unit, told me that cases referred in Wales last year included, specifically, 10 victims from Vietnam. He now works for the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe on support for victims and survivors, and is Ireland's representative on the Council of Europe's group of experts on action against trafficking in human beings. He also speaks at the UN Security Council on these matters. And, again, he told me personally that across the UK and globally, denial around the issue of what human trafficking manifests itself as is paramount. He said that there's too much back-slapping, when 99.6 to 99.7 per cent of victims are missed across the world, and only 0.35 per cent of perpetrators were convicted last year globally.
So, I've got two questions: one, would you be willing, or with appropriate colleagues, to meet Kevin Hyland, who is perhaps the leading global expert on this matter, who is very eager to engage with the Welsh—[Inaudible.]—and Welsh Government on this matter? And, in the shorter term, perhaps you can give a quicker answer: what dialogue has the Welsh Government's own anti-slavery co-ordinator had with Stena Line and Irish Ferries, not just today or since this tragic news, but over recent months and years since this soft spot was first highlighted?
Wrth gwrs, rwy'n rhannu eich teimladau ac yn cydymdeimlo â theuluoedd y bobl hyn sydd wedi dioddef profiad erchyll, beth bynnag oedd eu cymhelliad i ddod yma. Mewn gwirionedd, mae sawl blwyddyn ers i mi fynegi pryder yn y Siambr hon gyntaf fod Caergybi yn fan gwan o ran smyglo pobl i mewn i'r DU. Ym mis Mai, dywedodd Hafan o Oleuni, sefydliad di-elw sy'n canolbwyntio ar atal, codi ymwybyddiaeth a chefnogaeth i oroeswyr caethwasiaeth fodern a masnachu pobl yng ngogledd Cymru, na fyddent byth wedi gallu dod o hyd i unrhyw atebion go iawn o ran pa mor ddiogel oedd y man croesi o Iwerddon i Gaergybi, a'r ffordd arall, er bod aelodau'r cyhoedd ac uwch glerigwyr yn dweud wrthynt fod amheuon yn codi'n aml fod pobl yn cael eu cludo i mewn i'r DU ar y fferïau yng Nghaergybi. Roeddent wedi dweud wrthyf o'r blaen fod y prif linellau smyglo drwy Gaergybi yn dod o ddwyrain Ewrop, yn enwedig Rwmania a Bwlgaria, ac o Fietnam, ac fe wnaethant ddweud wrthyf hefyd eu bod wedi cael gwybod fis Hydref diwethaf fod Caergybi bellach wedi'i ddatrys.
Dywedodd Kevin Hyland OBE, Comisiynydd Atal Caethwasiaeth annibynnol cyntaf y Deyrnas Unedig, a fu gynt yn bennaeth ar uned masnachu pobl Heddlu Metropolitanaidd Llundain, fod achosion a nodwyd yng Nghymru y llynedd yn cynnwys, yn benodol, 10 dioddefwr o Fietnam. Mae bellach yn gweithio i'r Sefydliad Diogelwch a Chydweithrediad Ewrop ar gymorth i ddioddefwyr a goroeswyr, ac mae'n cynrychioli Iwerddon yng ngrŵp arbenigwyr Cyngor Ewrop, ar weithredu yn erbyn masnachu pobl. Mae hefyd yn siarad yng Nghyngor Diogelwch y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar y materion hyn. Ac unwaith eto, dywedodd wrthyf fod y broblem fod pobl yn gwadu, ledled y DU ac yn fyd-eang, fod masnachu pobl yn arddangos ei hun fel rhywbeth arall o'r pwys mwyaf. Dywedodd fod gormod o ganu clodydd, pan fo 99.6 i 99.7 y cant o ddioddefwyr ar draws y byd yn cael eu colli, a 0.35 y cant o droseddwyr yn unig a gafwyd yn euog ar draws y byd y llynedd.
Felly, mae gennyf ddau gwestiwn: un, a fyddech yn fodlon cyfarfod â Kevin Hyland, eich hun neu gyda chyd-Aelodau priodol, gan mai ef, o bosibl, yw'r prif arbenigwr byd-eang ar y mater hwn, ac mae'n awyddus iawn i ymgysylltu â'r Cymry—[Anghlywadwy.]—a Llywodraeth Cymru ar y mater hwn? Ac yn y tymor byrrach, efallai y gallech roi ateb cyflymach: pa sgwrs y mae cydgysylltydd atal caethwasiaeth Llywodraeth Cymru ei hun wedi'i chael gyda Stena Line ac Irish Ferries, nid heddiw neu ers y newyddion trasig hwn yn unig, ond dros y misoedd a'r blynyddoedd diwethaf ers i'r man gwan hwn gael ei amlygu gyntaf?
Can I thank Mark Isherwood for his questions? Yes, I would be more than willing to meet with Kevin Hyland, but I think it would also be helpful if a Minister from the Home Office were to agree to do so as well. I think it's important to stress right at this moment that we are yet to receive any firm information that would confirm that this case is linked to people smuggling, modern slavery or another crime, but obviously, the facts speak for themselves: 39 people have found dead in a lorry that travelled from eastern Europe.
In cases of modern slavery, our Welsh Government anti-slavery co-ordinator works with the key agencies to identify any lessons that will help us to tackle this form of horrendous crime. We are in touch with the Home Office. We are in touch with the investigators to learn as much as we possibly can, and to apply any lessons we can glean from this incident, and apply them as soon possible.
A gaf fi ddiolch i Mark Isherwood am ei gwestiynau? Byddwn yn fwy na pharod i gyfarfod â Kevin Hyland, ond credaf y byddai'n ddefnyddiol hefyd pe bai Gweinidog o'r Swyddfa Gartref yn cytuno i wneud hynny hefyd. Credaf ei bod yn bwysig pwysleisio ar hyn o bryd nad ydym eto wedi derbyn unrhyw wybodaeth gadarn a fyddai'n cadarnhau bod yr achos hwn yn gysylltiedig â smyglo pobl, caethwasiaeth fodern neu drosedd arall, ond yn amlwg, mae'r ffeithiau'n siarad drostynt eu hunain: mae 39 o bobl wedi cael eu canfod yn farw mewn lori a deithiodd o ddwyrain Ewrop.
Mewn achosion o gaethwasiaeth fodern, mae cydgysylltydd atal caethwasiaeth Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithio gyda'r asiantaethau allweddol i nodi unrhyw wersi a fydd yn ein helpu i fynd i'r afael â throseddau erchyll o'r fath. Rydym mewn cysylltiad â'r Swyddfa Gartref. Rydym mewn cysylltiad â'r ymchwilwyr i ddysgu cymaint ag y gallwn, ac i gymryd unrhyw wersi y gallwn eu dysgu o'r digwyddiad hwn, a'u cymhwyso cyn gynted ag y bo modd.
Diolch i'r Gweinidog.
I thank the Minister.
Yr eitem nesaf, felly, yw'r datganiadau 90 eiliad. Ac mae'r datganiad cyntaf gan Jayne Bryant.
The next item is the 90-second statements. And the first statement is from Jayne Bryant.
Diolch, Llywydd. This November marks 180 years of the Newport rising, which saw Chartists march from the Gwent valleys to Newport. The shooting of Chartists outside the Westgate Hotel in the centre of Newport, on 4 November 1839, marks a pivotal moment in our democratic history. We have commemorated the events of 1839 in Newport for many years, and it's wonderful to see how much this has grown. This year promises to be the best to date, with a grass-roots festival, which will include film, poetry, readings, live music, talks and, of course, a march. It's particularly special that some of these events will be held in the historic Westgate Hotel. In July this year, the hotel held the first of these events, with the publication of a new graphic novel by Josh Cranton, which was inspired by that march.
On 14 November, I'm looking forward to welcoming young people from schools across Newport to the Senedd, to celebrate the sacrifices, achievements and legacy of the Chartists, to ensure that people, not just in Newport but across Wales, understand our history and the significance. Of course, it's with huge thanks and appreciation to our dedicated volunteers of our Chartist heritage for the work they do, all year round, and I hope that Members and the public will join us to make Newport Rising 2019 the best it can be.
Diolch, Lywydd. Mae mis Tachwedd yn nodi 180 o flynyddoedd ers terfysg Casnewydd, pan orymdeithiodd y Siartwyr o gymoedd Gwent i Gasnewydd. Mae saethu Siartwyr y tu allan i Westy'r Westgate yng nghanol Casnewydd, ar 4 Tachwedd 1839, yn nodi moment dyngedfennol yn ein hanes democrataidd. Rydym wedi bod yn coffáu digwyddiadau 1839 yng Nghasnewydd ers blynyddoedd lawer, ac mae'n wych gweld faint y mae hyn wedi tyfu. Disgwylir mai eleni fydd y digwyddiad gorau hyd yma, gyda gŵyl i'r bobl, a fydd yn cynnwys ffilm, barddoniaeth, darlleniadau, cerddoriaeth fyw, sgyrsiau a gorymdaith wrth gwrs. Un elfen arbennig iawn yw y bydd rhai o'r digwyddiadau hyn yn cael eu cynnal yng ngwesty hanesyddol y Westgate. Ym mis Gorffennaf eleni, cynhaliodd y gwesty y digwyddiad cyntaf o'r rhain, gyda lansiad nofel graffig newydd gan Josh Cranton, a gafodd ei hysbrydoli gan yr orymdaith honno.
Ar 14 Tachwedd, rwy'n edrych ymlaen at groesawu pobl ifanc o ysgolion ar draws Casnewydd i'r Senedd, i ddathlu aberth, cyflawniadau a gwaddol y Siartwyr, i sicrhau bod pobl, nid yn unig yng Nghasnewydd ond ledled Cymru, yn deall ein hanes a'i arwyddocâd. Wrth gwrs, rydym yn gwerthfawrogi ac yn diolch yn fawr i wirfoddolwyr ymroddedig treftadaeth y Siartwyr am y gwaith y maent yn ei wneud drwy gydol y flwyddyn, ac rwy'n gobeithio y bydd yr Aelodau a'r cyhoedd yn ymuno â ni i sicrhau bod Terfysg Casnewydd 2019 mor llwyddiannus a phosibl.
Fifty-three years ago, on the morning of 21 October, a shadow fell on Aberfan. A spoil tip collapsed, killing 116 children and 28 adults. My grandfather, Ken, was one of many hundreds who went to help with the rescue, the only day my grandmother ever remembered him crying. While they worked desperately with shovels, with anything they could find, he said that whispers would spring up that a young boy had been found alive, unharmed, had dusted himself down, and run down the street. It wasn't true, but it kept the rescue workers going, it kept their hope alive on that darkest of days. My grandfather was a Catholic, and he said that, until that day, he had never believed in the devil.
There was a bitter injustice in the wake of this avoidable disaster too. Despite a public inquiry uncovering unforgivable negligence, no criminal proceedings were ever brought, no-one lost their job or received any sanction. But there were also stories of hope, of unbelievable courage; teachers who gave their lives trying to save the children. So when we remember Aberfan, we remember the loss, the betrayal, but we also remember courage and the resilience that that village showed on that day and every day since. We remember Aberfan—53 years that don't lessen the loss.
Ar fore 21 Hydref, 53 o flynyddoedd yn ôl, syrthiodd cysgod dros Aber-fan. Cwympodd tomen rwbel, gan ladd 116 o blant a 28 o oedolion. Roedd fy nhad-cu, Ken, yn un o gannoedd lawer a aeth i helpu gyda'r gwaith achub, yr unig ddiwrnod i fy nain ei gofio'n crio erioed. Tra'u bod yn gweithio'n daer gyda rhawiau, gydag unrhyw beth y gallent ddod o hyd iddo, dywedodd y byddai sibrydion ar led fod bachgen ifanc wedi cael ei ddarganfod yn fyw, heb ei niweidio, wedi sychu'r llwch oddi arno, ac wedi rhedeg i lawr y stryd. Nid oedd yn wir, ond cadwai'r gweithwyr achub i fynd, cadwai eu gobaith yn fyw ar y diwrnod tywyllaf hwnnw. Roedd fy nhad-cu yn Gatholig, a dywedodd nad oedd erioed wedi credu yn y diafol tan y diwrnod hwnnw.
Roedd yna anghyfiawnder chwerw yn sgil y drychineb hon y gellid bod wedi ei hosgoi. Er i ymchwiliad cyhoeddus ddatgelu esgeulustod anfaddeuol, ni ddaethpwyd ag achos troseddol gerbron erioed, ni chollodd neb ei swydd ac ni dderbyniodd neb unrhyw gosb. Ond roedd straeon am obaith hefyd, am ddewrder anghredadwy; athrawon a roddodd eu bywydau wrth geisio achub y plant. Felly pan fyddwn yn cofio am Aber-fan, rydym yn cofio'r golled, y brad, ond rydym hefyd yn cofio'r dewrder a'r gwytnwch a ddangosodd y pentref y diwrnod hwnnw a phob diwrnod ers hynny. Cofiwn Aberfan—nid yw 53 mlynedd yn lleihau'r golled.
Yr eitem nesaf yw'r ddadl gan Aelodau o dan Reol Sefydlog 11.21(iv) ar fynd i'r afael â throseddau casineb LHDT. Dwi'n galw ar Siân Gwenllian i wneud y cynnig.
The next item is a Member debate under Standing Order 11.21(iv) on tackling LGBT hate crime. I call on Siân Gwenllian to move the motion.
Cynnig NDM7144 Sian Gwenllian, Mick Antoniw, Leanne Wood
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:
1. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i ddarparu adroddiad o gynnydd am ei gwaith i fynd i'r afael â throseddau casineb LHDT yng Nghymru.
2. Yn galw am ddatganoli cyfiawnder er mwyn sicrhau dull integredig o fynd i'r afael â throseddau casineb LHDT ac amddiffyn pobl LHDT yng Nghymru.
3. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i amlinellu ei chynigion ar sut y gallai creu system gyfiawnder ddatganoledig i Gymru hybu diogelwch a llesiant pobl LHDT.
Motion NDM7144 Sian Gwenllian, Mick Antoniw, Leanne Wood
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
1. Calls on the Welsh Government to provide a progress report on its work to tackle LGBT hate crime in Wales.
2. Calls for the devolution of justice to ensure an integrated approach to tackling LGBT hate crime and protect LGBT people in Wales.
3. Calls on the Welsh Government to outline its proposals on how the creation of a devolved Welsh justice system could promote the safety and wellbeing of LGBT people.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Diolch, Llywydd. A diolch i'm cyd-gyflwynwyr, Leanne Wood a Mick Antoniw, am ganiatáu i'r ddadl yma ddigwydd heddiw yma.
Mi ges i'm symbylu i ymchwilio i fater troseddau casineb yn erbyn y gymuned lesbiaidd, deurywiol, hoyw a thraws yng Nghymru yn sgil digwyddiadau mewn tref yn fy etholaeth i. Mae'r elusen GISDA wedi bod yn cefnogi pobl ifanc fregus yn Arfon ers degawdau, a dwi'n cofio gweithio efo Brian Thirsk a'r criw cyntaf o wirfoddolwyr, nôl yn yr 1980au, pan ddaeth hi'n amlwg bod rhai o bobl ifanc yr ardal angen cefnogaeth. Mae'r elusen erbyn hyn yn rhan bwysig ac adnabyddus o'n cymunedau ni, ac yn ddiweddar gwelwyd bod angen sefydlu man cyfarfod diogel ar gyfer rhai o bobl ifanc LHDT yr ardal. Sefydlwyd clwb ieuenctid a chrëwyd cyfle i bobl ifanc o'r gymuned honno i gymdeithasu a rhannu profiadau, a hynny yn yr iaith Gymraeg.
Ond, yn anffodus, mae rhai o aelodau'r grŵp a'r clwb ieuenctid wedi dioddef rhagfarn homoffobaidd. Yn wir, fe ymosodwyd ar un person ifanc tra'n aros am fws ar ôl bod yn y clwb. Ymosodiad homoffobaidd, ffiaidd. Bu aelodau eraill yn destun ymosodiadau geiriol hefyd. Yn sgil hynny, roedd rhai o'r bobl ifanc yn teimlo nad oedden nhw am fynd i'r clwb, ond fe dynnwyd yr asiantaethau ynghyd ac fe drafodwyd pa gamau a oedd angen eu cymryd er mwyn caniatáu i'r clwb gael parhau i'r dyfodol.
Thank you, Llywydd. And thank you to my fellow Members, Leanne Wood and Mick Antoniw, for allowing this debate to take place today.
I was inspired to look into the issue of hate crimes against the lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans community across Wales as a result of events in a town in my constituency. The charity GISDA has been supporting vulnerable young people in Arfon over decades, and I remember working with Brian Thirsk and the first group of volunteers, back in the 1980s, when it became apparent that some of the young people in the area needed support. The charity is now an important and well-known part of our communities, and recently it was identified that there was a need to establish a safe meeting place for some young LGBT people in the area. A youth club was created and there was an opportunity for young people from that community to socialise and share experiences, and to do so through the medium of Welsh.
But, unfortunately, some members of the group and the youth club have suffered homophobic prejudice. Indeed, there was an attack on one young person whilst waiting for a bus having attended the club. This was an appalling homophobic attack. Other members of the club suffered verbal attacks too. Now, as a result of that, some of the young people felt that they could no longer attend the club, but agencies were brought together and there were discussions as to what steps needed to be taken to allow the club to continue to meet for the future.
Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (Ann Jones) i’r Gadair.
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.
Mae'r stori yma yn tanlinellu pam fod yn rhaid mynd i'r afael â'r cynnydd mewn troseddau casineb yn erbyn pobl lesbiaidd, deurywiol, hoyw a thraws yng Nghymru, a hynny ar frys. Dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, cofnodwyd bron i 4,000 o droseddau casineb yng Nghymru, yr uchaf eto ar gyfer troseddau casineb yn y wlad yma, a bron i ddwbl y ffigwr ers 2013. Siom yw gweld y lefelau yn codi unwaith eto, a hynny ar draws pob math o nodwedd warchodedig: hil, crefydd, anabledd, ac yn erbyn pobl LHDT. Mae troseddau casineb yn erbyn y gymuned yma yn benodol wedi cynyddu 12 y cant, o 670 i 751 dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, a'r nifer o droseddau casineb yn erbyn pobl traws wedi cynyddu o 64 i 120—bron i ddwbl. Ac mae'n debyg, wrth gwrs, fod yna nifer o resymau dros y cynnydd, yn cynnwys mwy o barodrwydd i ddod ymlaen i riportio troseddau a dulliau gwell o gasglu'r wybodaeth, ond rhaid inni dderbyn bod rhagfarn hefyd wrth wraidd y cynnydd mewn troseddau casineb, a rhaid mynd i'r afael â'r rhagfarn hwnnw os ydym ni am greu cymdeithas wâr yng Nghymru—un sy'n coleddu gwahaniaeth, un sy'n parchu hawliau unigolion o ran eu rhywedd.
Mi ddywedwn i fod hyn oll yn ddadl deilwng dros ddatganoli cyfiawnder i Gymru, gan greu'r cyfle i adolygu'r holl broses o ddelio â throseddau casineb, ac mi fydd Leanne Wood yn sôn am hyn yn ei chyfraniad hi. Yn y cyfamser, cyn gallu datganoli cyfiawnder, mae angen mynd i'r afael â'r diffyg adnoddau. Mae yna bryder difrifol ynghylch y diffyg adnoddau sydd eu hangen i fynd i'r afael â throseddau casineb, ac mae yna anghydraddoldeb mewn cefnogaeth ledled Cymru, sy'n golygu bod yr adnoddau yn dameidiog ac yn destun i loteri cod post. Er enghraifft, y clwb ieuenctid roeddwn yn sôn amdano yn GISDA ydy'r unig un o'i fath yng Ngwynedd gyfan, a'r unig un, hyd y gwn i, sy'n darparu lle i aelodau Cymraeg eu hiaith.
Mae yna waith da yn digwydd, a dwi yn falch bod ein comisiynydd heddlu a throseddau yn y gogledd, Arfon Jones, yn cyflawni gwaith clodwiw. Mae gan Heddlu Gogledd Cymru ddau swyddog amrywiaeth a throseddau casineb sy'n rhoi hyfforddiant i swyddogion newydd i adnabod troseddau casineb. Ac mae'r bwrdd cyfiawnder troseddau casineb hefyd wedi bod yn gwneud gwaith da ar draws Cymru. Ac felly, er mai torcalonnus ydy gweld cynnydd yn nifer y troseddau sydd yn cael eu recordio gan yr heddlu, efallai bod hyn yn golygu bod yna well ymwybyddiaeth a bod y cynnydd yn deillio o well ymwybyddiaeth gan yr heddlu a'r cyhoedd a hynny sydd wedi arwain at fwy o riportio. Ac, wrth gwrs, mae'n well i ddioddefwr ddefnyddio a chael cefnogaeth drwy'r gwasanaethau, yn hytrach na dioddef mewn tawelwch.
Ond mae'n rhaid i fi ddweud dwi'n teimlo bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi methu â gwir amgyffred yr angen i roi pwysigrwydd i'r mater yma, ac i fynd at wraidd y broblem wrth fynd i'r afael â throseddau casineb. Mae yna fframwaith wedi cael ei ddyfeisio ar gyfer mynd i'r afael â throseddau casineb, ond nid ydym wedi cael llawer o wybodaeth am hwnnw na dim diweddariad ers bron i ddwy flynedd. Ac, wrth gwrs, mae angen rhoi ystyriaeth tymor hir i'r mater yma, ac i weld lefelau troseddau casineb yn gostwng unwaith ac am byth. Ac mae hyn yn golygu bod yn rhaid inni roi sylw ar fesurau ataliol, gan ddechrau yn yr ysgol.
Byddai gwersi mewn addysg perthynas a rhywioldeb yn golygu byddai plant yn ennill dealltwriaeth glir o amrywiaeth pobl a pherthynas iachus. Mi fydden nhw'n dysgu am wahanol fathau o deuluoedd, cyfeillgarwch, perthynas broffesiynol a pherthynas rywiol yn ogystal â goddefgarwch a bod yn gynhwysol ynglŷn â hunaniaeth. Mae'n hanfodol, yn fy marn i, a dwi'n gwybod bod y Gweinidog addysg yn cytuno, fod yr addysg hon yn cael ei roi i bob un plentyn yng Nghymru.
Mae Stonewall Cymru yn dweud yn glir iawn—maen nhw'n dweud fel hyn: mae addysg perthynas a rhywioldeb cynhwysol ac effeithiol yn sicrhau bod pob person ifanc yn derbyn y wybodaeth sydd ei hangen arnyn nhw i gadw'n ddiogel, i wneud penderfyniadau gwybodus, cael perthnasoedd iach a pharatoi ar gyfer bywyd yng Nghymru yn yr unfed ganrif ar hugain.
Mae'n hanfodol bod yr holl adnoddau a chefnogaeth posib yn trosglwyddo i'n hysgolion ni er mwyn sicrhau eu bod nhw'n hyderus i gyflwyno gwersi addysg perthynas a rhywioldeb yn effeithiol. Ac mae'n dda gweld bod cynnwys yr elfen yma—yr addysg perthynas a rhywioldeb—yn y cwricwlwm yn un sydd wedi derbyn cefnogaeth glir a chadarn ar draws y pleidiau yn y Siambr yma.
Dwi'n hapus ein bod ni fel Senedd heddiw yn gallu trafod y mater yma ac yn gallu gwneud safiad cryf ar y cyd ar faterion difrifol sy'n mynd i galon ein cymdeithas ni. Mae'n rhaid inni edrych ar ôl ein gilydd. Dwi'n edrych ymlaen at glywed cyfraniadau cyd-Aelodau i'r cynnig sydd gerbron.
This story highlights why we must tackle the increase in hate crimes against the LGBT community in Wales and that we need to do that as a matter of urgency. Over the past year, almost 4,000 hate crimes were recorded in Wales, the highest number yet for hate crimes in this country and almost double the figure recorded in 2013. It’s disappointing to see the levels increasing again across all the protected characteristics: race, religion, disability, and crimes against the LGBT community. Hate crimes against this community specifically have increased 12 per cent, from 670 to 751 recorded cases over the last year, and the number of hate crimes against the trans community have increased from 64 to 120. That’s almost a doubling in the number. It appears that there are a number of reasons for this increase, including a willingness to come forward to report these incidents and better ways of recording the information, but we must also accept that there is prejudice at the root of this increase in hate crimes, and we must address that prejudice if we are to create a civilised society in Wales—one that embraces difference and respects the rights of individuals in terms of their sexuality.
I would say that all of this is a worthy argument for the devolution of justice to Wales, giving us an opportunity to review the whole process of dealing with hate crimes, and Leanne Wood will address this issue in her contribution. In the meantime, before we can devolve justice to Wales, we do need to tackle the lack of resources. There is huge concern about the lack of resources available to tackle hate crimes, and there is inequality in terms of support across Wales, which means that the resources are patchy and subject to a postcode lottery. For example, the youth club I mentioned in GISDA is the only one of its kind in the whole of Gwynedd and the only one, as far as I know, that provides a space for Welsh-speaking members.
There is good work happening and I am pleased that our police and crime commissioner in north Wales, Arfon Jones, is doing laudable work. North Wales Police have two hate crime diversity officers providing training to new officers to identify hate crimes. And the hate crime justice board has also been doing good work across Wales. Therefore, although the increase in the number of hate crimes recorded by the police is heartbreaking, this may mean that there is greater awareness and that that increase is emerging because of greater awareness among the police and the public and that that has led to an increase in reporting. And, of course, it is better for a victim to be supported through these services, rather than suffering in silence.
But I do have to say that I do feel that the Welsh Government has failed to truly comprehend the need to give priority to this issue and to get to the heart of the problem in dealing with hate crime. There has been a framework drawn up to tackle hate crime, but we haven’t received a great deal of information about that and no update on it for almost two years. And, of course, we do need to give long-term consideration to this issue, so that we see hate crime levels reducing once and for all. And this does mean that we have to consider preventative measures, starting in our schools.
Education in relationship and sex education would mean that children would gain a clear understanding of the diversity of people and healthy relationships. They would learn about different kinds of families, friendships, professional relationships and sexual relationships as well as tolerance and being inclusive in terms of identity. It is crucial, in my view, and I know that the education Minister would agree, that this education is provided to each and every child in Wales.
Stonewall Cymru have said very clearly that sex and relationship education that is inclusive and effective does ensure that every young person receives the information that they need to stay safe, to make informed decisions, to have healthy relationships, and to prepare for life in Wales in the twenty-first century.
It is crucial that all of the possible resources and every support are provided for our schools so that we can ensure that they are confident in presenting sex and relationship education effectively. And it is good to see that including this element—sex and relationship education—in the curriculum is one that has received clear support across parties in this Chamber.
I am pleased that we as a Senedd today can discuss this issue and can make a strong stand together on these grave issues that get to the heart of our society. We do have to look after each other, and I look forward to hearing the contributions of fellow Members on the motion before us today.
I'm pleased to contribute to this debate today. Diolch yn fawr, Siân, for opening. I think it's a sad indictment of the times in which we live that reports of hate crimes against LGBT people in England and Wales have rocketed according to new data, which was just mentioned, compiled by the Home Office and other organisations. In fact, looking at the statistics, I think that I'm right in saying that there's been a 25 per cent rise in hate crimes based on sexual orientation alone—25 per cent.
This is a deeply worrying statistic, but, of course, behind the statistics, there are heart-wrenching individual stories. And, Siân, you mentioned one of the most recent, which has been publicised, which was in Gwynedd, in your constituency, I believe, which left a teen hospitalised. As you said, that was a youth club member—only 13. He was assaulted at a local bus stop while being verbally abused. I understand that, at a meeting, the founder Aled Griffiths called for members—he said allies should stand together for equality. And I think all of us who are allies in this Chamber and in this institution would agree and support those views—we all need to stand together, as you said at the end of your speech on that. Of course, that's one example. There are many more. In another instance, a man punched his neighbour and hurled horrific homophobic abuse at his—I mean, it's horrific even reading the details of this. It's unbelievable that this is happening in today's society, but he punched his neighbour and hurled horrific homophobic abuse at him after allegedly assaulting his partner. So, multiple people were involved in that attack.
So, the purpose of this debate is to call on the Welsh Government to work with local authorities, with schools and the police to try and eradicate the prejudice and the violence that our LGBT constituents across Wales face on a day-to-day basis.
If you dig down into the statistics, it gets even more worrying. Anti-trans hate crime has more than quadrupled in the last five years. So, these really are breathtaking statistics that you wouldn't accept in any other line of life or line of criminal statistics. So, this really does need to be addressed as soon as possible.
You've mentioned the devolution of justice, and I think you said that Leanne Wood was going to go further into that. And I'm certainly not averse to devolution of further powers to this place where necessary. I think it's quite desirable, in many respects, that we do actually have, as the finance Secretary and, indeed, the former First Minister said, the tools of the toolbox in order to deal with these issues. I would urge a word of caution, in that, of course, further powers are not always the answer. We do have to, as I think you said, know what we're going to do with those powers, which is why I think point 3 calls on the Welsh Government to come forward with a strategy of how all of these disparate areas can be joined up to try and make things work better. So, I would be concerned if the focus was taken off using the powers that the Welsh Government currently have on a discussion—important as it may be—about the future design of powers for this place, because I think, at this moment in time, LGBT people across Wales need to know that we are out there looking out for them and doing what we can at the moment to support them.
You did mention education, and the education Minister is in the Camber today, and it seems to me that you cannot deal with this issue of hate crime and homophobia, and all sorts of other phobias, without actually addressing that early on. Often the seeds of crimes later in life are sown very early on, and it comes down to malign influences that young people might have early on that aren’t addressed and that they don’t always have a good example to follow, so I think that schools and education have an important role to play. And I would say, large strides have been made in that area—there are issued that are talked about now in schools that were never mentioned before, so that is progress, but we need to go far further in dealing with this issue to make sure that, in future, LGBT people, trans people—indeed, all the people that we represent—can feel safe and can feel free, in youth clubs or wherever it might be, to express themselves and live the sort of lives that they want to live and which they deserve to be able to live freely and without prejudice in Wales.
Rwy'n falch o gyfrannu at y ddadl hon heddiw. Diolch yn fawr, Siân, am agor y ddadl. Rwy'n credu ei fod yn adlewyrchiad trist o'r cyfnod rydym yn byw ynddo fod adroddiadau am droseddau casineb yn erbyn pobl LHDT yng Nghymru a Lloegr wedi saethu i fyny yn ôl data newydd sydd newydd gael ei grybwyll, data a luniwyd gan y Swyddfa Gartref a sefydliadau eraill. Yn wir, o edrych ar yr ystadegau, credaf fy mod yn iawn i ddweud bod cynnydd o 25 y cant wedi bod yn nifer y troseddau casineb ar sail cyfeiriadedd rhywiol yn unig—25 y cant.
Mae hwn yn ystadegyn sy'n peri pryder mawr, ond wrth gwrs, y tu ôl i'r ystadegau, mae yna straeon unigol torcalonnus. A Siân, roeddech yn sôn am un o'r straeon diweddaraf, sydd wedi cael cyhoeddusrwydd, yng Ngwynedd, yn eich etholaeth chi, rwy'n credu, a roddodd fachgen yn ei arddegau yn yr ysbyty. Fel y dywedoch chi, aelod o glwb ieuenctid oedd hwnnw—dim ond 13 mlwydd oed. Ymosodwyd arno mewn safle bws lleol wrth iddo gael ei gam-drin yn eiriol. Deallaf fod y sylfaenydd, Aled Griffiths, mewn cyfarfod, wedi galw am aelodau—dywedodd y dylai cynghreiriaid sefyll gyda'i gilydd dros gydraddoldeb. Ac rwy'n credu y byddai pob un ohonom sy'n gynghreiriaid yn y Siambr hon ac yn y sefydliad hwn yn cytuno ac yn cefnogi'r safbwyntiau hynny—mae angen i bawb ohonom sefyll gyda'n gilydd, fel y dywedoch chi ar ddiwedd eich araith. Wrth gwrs, un enghraifft yw hon. Mae llawer mwy. Mewn achos arall, dyrnodd dyn ei gymydog a gweiddi geiriau homoffobig sarhaus arno—mae'n erchyll darllen y manylion hyn hyd yn oed. Mae'n anghredadwy bod hyn yn digwydd yng nghymdeithas heddiw, ond fe ddyrnodd ei gymydog a'i sarhau'n homoffobig mewn modd erchyll, a hynny ar ôl ymosod ar ei bartner yn ôl yr honiad. Felly, roedd nifer o bobl yn gysylltiedig â'r ymosodiad hwnnw.
Felly, diben y ddadl hon yw galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i weithio gydag awdurdodau lleol, gydag ysgolion a'r heddlu i geisio dileu'r rhagfarn a'r trais y mae ein hetholwyr LHDT ledled Cymru yn ei wynebu o ddydd i ddydd.
Os astudiwch yr ystadegau, mae'n peri mwy fyth o ofid. Mae troseddau casineb gwrth-draws wedi cynyddu mwy na phedair gwaith yn y pum mlynedd diwethaf. Felly, mae'r rhain yn ystadegau syfrdanol na fyddech yn eu derbyn mewn unrhyw agwedd arall ar fywyd nac unrhyw linell arall o ystadegau troseddol. Felly, mae gwir angen mynd i'r afael â hyn cyn gynted ag y bo modd.
Rydych wedi sôn am ddatganoli cyfiawnder, ac rwy'n credu eich bod wedi dweud bod Leanne Wood yn bwriadu edrych ymhellach ar hynny. Ac yn sicr nid wyf yn gwrthwynebu datganoli rhagor o bwerau i'r lle hwn lle bo angen. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn eithaf dymunol, mewn sawl ffordd, fod gennym, fel y dywedodd yr Ysgrifennydd cyllid a'r cyn Brif Weinidog yn wir, yr offer priodol i ymdrin â'r materion hyn. Hoffwn eich annog i fod yn ofalus, oherwydd, wrth gwrs, nid pwerau pellach yw'r ateb bob tro. Fel y dywedoch chi, rwy'n credu, mae'n rhaid i ni wybod beth y bwriadwn ei wneud gyda'r pwerau hynny, a dyna pam rwy'n credu bod pwynt 3 yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i gyflwyno strategaeth sy'n dangos sut y gellir cysylltu pob un o'r meysydd gwahanol hyn er mwyn ceisio gwneud i bethau weithio'n well. Felly, buaswn yn pryderu pe bai'r ffocws yn cael ei dynnu oddi ar ddefnyddio'r pwerau sydd gan Lywodraeth Cymru ar hyn o bryd a'i droi ar drafodaeth—er mor bwysig yw hi—ynglŷn â'r modd y caiff pwerau'r lle hwn eu cynllunio yn y dyfodol, oherwydd ar hyn o bryd, rwy'n credu bod angen i bobl LHDT ledled Cymru wybod ein bod yn gofalu amdanynt ac yn gwneud yr hyn a allwn ar hyn o bryd i'w cefnogi.
Fe sonioch chi am addysg, ac mae'r Gweinidog addysg yn y Siambr heddiw, ac mae'n ymddangos i mi na allwch ymdrin â throseddau casineb a homoffobia, a phob math o ffobiâu eraill, heb fynd i'r afael â'r rheini'n gynnar mewn gwirionedd. Yn aml, mae hadau troseddau sy'n cael eu cyflawni yn ddiweddarach mewn bywyd wedi'u hau'n gynnar iawn, ac mae'n ymwneud â'r dylanwadau niweidiol cynnar ar bobl ifanc nad ydynt yn cael sylw ac nid oes ganddynt enghraifft dda i'w dilyn bob amser, felly credaf fod gan ysgolion a'r byd addysg rôl bwysig i'w chwarae. A buaswn yn dweud bod camau breision wedi cael eu gwneud yn y maes hwnnw—mae materion na châi eu crybwyll o'r blaen bellach yn cael eu trafod mewn ysgolion, felly mae hwnnw'n gynnydd, ond mae angen inni fynd yn llawer pellach i fynd i'r afael â'r broblem er mwyn sicrhau, yn y dyfodol, fod pobl LHDT, pobl draws—yn wir, yr holl bobl rydym yn eu cynrychioli—yn gallu teimlo'n ddiogel a theimlo'n rhydd, mewn clybiau ieuenctid neu lle bynnag, i fynegi eu hunain a byw'r math o fywydau y maent eisiau eu byw ac y maent yn haeddu gallu eu byw yn rhydd a heb ragfarn yng Nghymru.
Whilst social attitudes and the law has progressed a lot over recent decades, many young people still do not feel accepted for who they are in their own communities. Many people still face daily prejudice, abuse, harassment and hostility. How can we assure young people that they will be accepted when they come out when we cannot protect them from hate crimes? In the last year alone, there have been almost 4,000 recorded hate crimes in Wales on the grounds of race, religion, sexual orientation, disability and transgender. This is Wales’s highest figure yet, and it represents a near doubling of the figures over the last six years.
Black, Asian and minority ethnic LGBT people are hit by double discrimination. According to Stonewall, half of black, Asian and minority ethnic LGBT people have experienced discrimination or poor treatment because of their ethnicity from others in their own local LGBT community, and this number rises to three in five black LGBT people. And a third of lesbian, gay and bi people of faith aren’t open with anyone in their faith community about their sexual orientation.
Hate crimes don’t exist in a vacuum. Society has become more polarised and political discourse has become more toxic. And when the UK Prime Minister compares Muslim women who wear the burqa and calls them 'letterboxes', and when he can walk away free from any reprimand or consequence, then we have got work to do.
Wales is not immune to this or these latest statistics, and they show that our society is neither yet wholly accepting or fair. They show that prejudice is a problem, and they show that, despite the many gains that Wales has made in terms of LGBT equality, we are not there yet. Social attitudes may have changed a lot over recent decades, and although changes in law mean more schools and public services are taking notice of and tackling anti-LGBT discrimination, we must still push further.
Of the many equality hurdles we must overcome, present discourse around trans rights is of deep concern to me. Trans people in Wales and throughout the world face prejudice and discrimination on the basis of their gender identity. Fifty-nine percent of trans women and 56 of trans men say they avoid expressing their gender identity for fear of a negative reaction from others. For non-binary respondents, the figure was much higher, at 76 per cent. Trans people are also at higher risk of homelessness and suicide, and have had to travel to London to get basic healthcare. Trans people should have an inalienable right to live free from prejudice, discrimination and persecution. Why can’t we have an ambition for Wales to be a world leader in high-quality trans healthcare and access to services and facilities in accordance with their gender identity?
Real, long-term change can also come from a better justice system. The current England and Wales criminal justice system is failing our communities—it doesn’t work for people here. We need change and full power and responsibility over criminal justice to create a system that will benefit all of our communities, to properly tackle LGBT hate crime and protecting LGBT people. We could review hate crime laws so that hate crimes based on sexual orientation, gender identity or disability and neurodiversity are treated equally to those based on race and faith, by making them aggravated offences. We could better train all police and prosecutors on anti-LGBT hate crimes, on and offline. We could successfully track prosecutions to develop best practice, and provide targeted support to victims.
In a wider context, we must tackle the ingrained prejudice that sees imprisonment rates among BAME communities much more disproportionate, relative to the population, in Wales than in England. If you are a young person of colour in Wales, you are both more likely to be in imprisoned and to receive a longer sentence. That is not acceptable.
We are thankfully far from the days of section 28 and the anti-equal marriage lobby, but we still have so much more to do before LGBT people can feel safe and accepted without exception in Wales today, and for hate crimes to be a thing of the past.
Er bod agweddau cymdeithasol a'r gyfraith wedi datblygu llawer dros y degawdau diwethaf, mae llawer o bobl ifanc yn dal i deimlo nad ydynt yn cael eu derbyn am bwy ydynt yn eu cymunedau eu hunain. Mae llawer o bobl yn dal i wynebu rhagfarn, camdriniaeth, aflonyddu a gelyniaeth bob dydd. Sut y gallwn sicrhau pobl ifanc y byddant yn cael eu derbyn pan fyddant yn dod allan pan na allwn eu hamddiffyn rhag troseddau casineb? Yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf yn unig, mae bron i 4,000 o droseddau casineb wedi'u cofnodi yng Nghymru ar sail hil, crefydd, cyfeiriadedd rhywiol, anabledd a thrawsrywedd. Dyma ffigur uchaf erioed yng Nghymru, ac mae'n golygu bod y ffigurau wedi dyblu bron dros y chwe blynedd diwethaf.
Caiff pobl LHDT sydd hefyd yn bobl dduon ac Asiaidd a lleiafrifol ethnig eu heffeithio gan wahaniaethu dwbl. Yn ôl Stonewall, mae hanner y bobl LHDT du, Asiaidd neu leiafrifol ethnig wedi dioddef camwahaniaethu neu driniaeth wael oherwydd eu hethnigrwydd dan law eraill yn eu cymuned LHDT leol eu hunain, ac mae'r nifer hwn yn codi i dri o bob pump o bobl dduon LHDT. Ac nid yw traean o bobl lesbiaidd, hoyw a deurywiol sy'n arddel ffydd yn agored gydag unrhyw un yn eu cymuned ffydd ynglŷn â'u cyfeiriadedd rhywiol.
Nid yw troseddau casineb yn bodoli mewn gwacter. Mae cymdeithas wedi mynd yn fwy pegynol ac mae trafodaeth wleidyddol wedi mynd yn fwy gwenwynig. A thra bo Prif Weinidog y DU yn galw menywod Mwslimaidd sy'n gwisgo'r bwrca yn 'flychau llythyrau', a thra gall gerdded yn rhydd heb unrhyw gerydd na chanlyniad, mae gennym waith i'w wneud.
Nid yw Cymru'n ddiogel rhag hyn na'r ystadegau diweddaraf, ac maent yn dangos nad yw ein cymdeithas yn derbyn pawb yn llwyr nac yn gwbl deg eto. Maent yn dangos bod rhagfarn yn broblem, ac maent yn dangos, er gwaethaf y llwyddiannau niferus y mae Cymru wedi'u sicrhau o ran cydraddoldeb LHDT, nad ydym cyrraedd eto. Mae'n bosibl fod agweddau cymdeithasol wedi newid llawer dros y degawdau diwethaf, ac er bod newidiadau yn y gyfraith yn golygu bod mwy o ysgolion a gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn cymryd sylw o wahaniaethu gwrth-LHDT ac yn mynd i'r afael ag ef, mae'n rhaid i ni barhau i wthio ymhellach.
O'r llu o rwystrau i gydraddoldeb sy'n rhaid i ni eu goresgyn, mae'r drafodaeth bresennol am hawliau traws yn bwysig iawn i mi. Mae pobl draws yng Nghymru a ledled y byd yn wynebu rhagfarn a gwahaniaethu ar sail eu hunaniaeth ryweddol. Mae 59 y cant o fenywod traws a 56 o ddynion traws yn dweud eu bod yn osgoi mynegi eu hunaniaeth ryweddol oherwydd eu bod yn ofni ymateb negyddol gan eraill. Ar gyfer ymatebwyr anneuaidd, roedd y ffigur yn llawer uwch, sef 76 y cant. Mae pobl draws hefyd yn wynebu mwy o risg o ddigartrefedd a hunanladdiad, ac wedi gorfod teithio i Lundain i gael gofal iechyd sylfaenol. Dylai fod gan bobl draws hawl ddiymwad i fyw heb ragfarn, gwahaniaethu ac erledigaeth. Pam na allwn ni gael uchelgais i Gymru fod yn arweinydd byd o ran gofal iechyd traws o ansawdd uchel a mynediad at wasanaethau a chyfleusterau yn unol â'u hunaniaeth ryweddol?
Mae system gyfiawnder well hefyd yn gallu arwain at newid hirdymor real. Ar hyn o bryd, mae system cyfiawnder troseddol Cymru a Lloegr yn gwneud cam â'n cymunedau—nid yw'n gweithio i bobl yma. Mae angen newid arnom a phŵer a chyfrifoldeb llawn dros gyfiawnder troseddol i greu system a fydd o fudd i'n holl gymunedau, er mwyn mynd i'r afael â throseddau casineb LHDT a diogelu pobl LHDT yn briodol. Gallem adolygu deddfau troseddau casineb fel bod troseddau casineb sy'n seiliedig ar gyfeiriadedd rhywiol, hunaniaeth ryweddol neu anabledd a niwroamrywiaeth yn cael eu trin yn gyfartal â'r rhai sy'n seiliedig ar hil a ffydd, drwy eu gwneud yn droseddau gwaethygedig. Gallem ddarparu hyfforddiant troseddau casineb gwrth-LHDT gwell ar gyfer yr heddlu ac erlynyddion, ar-lein ac all-lein. Gallem olrhain erlyniadau'n llwyddiannus i ddatblygu arferion gorau, a darparu cymorth wedi'i dargedu i ddioddefwyr.
Mewn cyd-destun ehangach, mae'n rhaid inni fynd i'r afael â'r rhagfarn gynhenid sy'n arwain at gyfraddau carcharu llawer mwy anghymesur yng Nghymru nag yn Lloegr ymhlith cymunedau pobl dduon ac Asiaidd a lleiafrifoedd ethnig, o'u cymharu â'r boblogaeth. Os ydych yn berson croendywyll yng Nghymru, rydych yn fwy tebygol o fod wedi'ch carcharu ac o gael dedfryd hirach. Nid yw hynny'n dderbyniol.
Diolch byth, rydym yn bell o ddyddiau adran 28 a'r lobi yn erbyn priodasau cyfartal, ond mae gennym gymaint mwy i'w wneud eto cyn y gall pobl LHDT deimlo'n ddiogel ac wedi'u derbyn yn ddieithriad yng Nghymru heddiw, ac i droseddau casineb fod yn rhywbeth sy'n perthyn i'r gorffennol.
Thank you very much to Leanne and Siân for bringing this debate, along with Mick Antoniw, because I think it's a very interesting debate and one that we don't often address. I want to talk about some positives, because I think we can all agree that there are lots of deplorable things going on in society.
I want to highlight Just a Ball Game?, which is a charity that is combating LGBTQI phobia in sport, which is often one of the places where people feel their inhibitions are laid aside and people feel they can behave on the terraces in a way that is different to how they would behave in the street. I remember hosting a memorable meeting last year in the Pierhead with Just a Ball Game?, organised in collaboration with my late lamented constituent Bob Woods, a distinguished social worker and LGBT rights campaigner. Amongst those attending, to my delight, were five members of the St Teilo's LGBT group, pupils who meet monthly in order to discuss matters of common concern, who were brought, with the consent of their parents, by a member of staff. The speakers included Neville Southall, one of the top 100 football players of the twentieth century—as football fans will know he played for both Everton and Wales—and Gareth Thomas, the second-highest try scorer, behind Shane Williams, and one of the most distinguished rugby union and rugby league players in Wales and Britain. Both of them are icons of their games who have played prominent parts in combating homophobic hate crime in sport.
Shamefully, just under a year ago, Gareth Thomas was the subject of a homophobic attack whilst on a night out in my constituency, in Cardiff. It was to his credit that Gareth Thomas opted to go down the restorative justice route, rather than prosecute the 16-year-old and give him a criminal record—something that Neville Southall commended him for. I'm sure that that is a much more effective way of getting this 16-year-old to rethink his ideas about his prejudice, which he no doubt had picked up from other people in his family.
I also want to speak about the Cardiff Dragons Football Club, which is Wales's first and only LGBTQI football team. It was set up in 2008 by football fans who wanted to create a team free from homophobia and play football in a safe and supportive space. They still have difficulty getting pitches in the winter months, which are normally taken up by other clubs. So, if anybody knows of a winter weather football space that they could offer them, please do get in touch.
Their mission statement is to promote participation in and awareness of football, social cohesion and healthy lifestyles within the LGBTQI community in Cardiff, south Wales and beyond. They take part, playing in the Gay Football Supporters' Network league against teams from all over the UK. The supporters network was set up in 1989 by fans of the sport, and it has extended from simply following the game to campaigning for LGBTQI rights and freedom from abuse while they go to matches as well as also playing. The Cardiff team also plays in straight leagues as well, where they are, from time to time, subject to abusive comments from opposition teams. Whilst these complaints tend to be quickly dealt with by the league, we nevertheless have to understand that homophobia, just like racism, is, unfortunately, something that we have still a lot of work to do on in sport, particularly in football.
So, the Cardiff Dragons are in talks with Cardiff City to set up a Cardiff City LGBT supporters network, which they're hoping to launch in February next year to coincide with Football v Homophobia Month, and I will be delighted to support that.
The Wales team doesn't have an LGBT supporters network at the moment either, so these are important initiatives to normalise respect for difference in sport, which is one of the arenas where people do feel that they can start to air their prejudice.
We have to be constantly vigilant about, and intolerant of, homophobia and racism in sport. We have to ensure that the next generation is enabled to combat the inherited prejudices that were enshrined in law in the past. And section 28 has already been mentioned as a really shameful period in our history. I can recall that, over a decade after decriminalisation, my own uncle had several scrapes with the law simply because homophobic policemen had nothing better to do than harass gay people who were meeting furtively in public places rather than having the confidence to meet out in the open on the same terms as heterosexual people.
Diolch yn fawr iawn i Leanne a Siân am gyflwyno'r ddadl hon, ynghyd â Mick Antoniw, oherwydd rwy'n credu ei bod yn ddadl ddiddorol iawn ac yn un nad ydym yn mynd i'r afael â hi'n aml. Hoffwn sôn am rai pethau cadarnhaol, oherwydd credaf y gallwn i gyd gytuno bod llawer o bethau ffiaidd yn digwydd yn ein cymdeithas.
Rwyf am dynnu sylw at Just a Ball Game?, sef elusen sy'n mynd i'r afael â'r ffobia LHDT+ ym myd chwaraeon, sy'n aml yn un o'r mannau lle mae pobl yn teimlo eu bod yn gallu bwrw eu swildod ac ymddwyn mewn ffordd benodol ar y terasau sy'n wahanol i'r ffordd y byddent yn ymddwyn ar y stryd. Rwy'n cofio cynnal cyfarfod cofiadwy y llynedd yn y Pierhead gyda Just a Ball Game?, a drefnwyd mewn cydweithrediad â fy niweddar etholwr Bob Woods, gweithiwr cymdeithasol blaenllaw ac ymgyrchydd hawliau LHDT. Ymhlith y rhai a oedd yn bresennol, er mawr foddhad i mi, roedd pum aelod o grŵp LHDT Teilo Sant, disgyblion sy'n cyfarfod yn fisol er mwyn trafod materion cyffredin sy'n peri pryder, a ddaeth yno, gyda chaniatâd eu rhieni, gydag aelod o staff. Ymhlith y siaradwyr roedd Neville Southall, un o 100 chwaraewr pêl-droed gorau'r ugeinfed ganrif—fel y gŵyr cefnogwyr pêl-droed, chwaraeodd i Everton a Chymru—a Gareth Thomas, y sgoriwr ceisiadau uchaf ond un y tu ôl i Shane Williams, ac un o chwaraewyr rygbi'r undeb a rygbi'r gynghrair enwocaf yng Nghymru a Phrydain. Mae'r ddau ohonynt yn eiconau yn eu gemau ac wedi chwarae rhannau amlwg yn y frwydr yn erbyn troseddau casineb homoffobig ym myd chwaraeon.
Yn gywilyddus, ychydig o dan flwyddyn yn ôl, profodd Gareth Thomas ymosodiad homoffobig tra oedd ar noson allan yn fy etholaeth i, yng Nghaerdydd. Er clod iddo, dewisodd Gareth Thomas ddilyn y llwybr cyfiawnder adferol, yn hytrach nag erlyn y bachgen 16 mlwydd oed a rhoi record droseddol iddo—ac roedd Neville Southall yn ei ganmol am wneud hynny. Rwy'n siŵr bod honno'n ffordd lawer mwy effeithiol o gael y person ifanc 16 oed hwn i ailfeddwl ynglŷn â'i syniadau rhagfarnllyd, a ddysgodd, mae'n siŵr, gan bobl eraill yn ei deulu.
Rwyf eisiau siarad hefyd am Glwb Pêl-droed Dreigiau Caerdydd, sef tîm pêl-droed LHDT+ cyntaf, a'r unig un, yng Nghymru. Fe'i sefydlwyd yn 2008 gan gefnogwyr pêl-droed a oedd eisiau creu tîm yn rhydd o homoffobia a chwarae pêl-droed mewn gofod diogel a chefnogol. Maent yn dal i gael anhawster i ddod o hyd i gaeau chwarae yn ystod misoedd y gaeaf, caeau sydd fel arfer yn cael eu cymryd gan glybiau eraill. Felly, os oes unrhyw un yn gwybod am gae pêl-droed addas yn y gaeaf y gallent eu cynnig iddynt, mae croeso i chi gysylltu â mi.
Eu datganiad cenhadaeth yw hyrwyddo cyfranogiad mewn pêl-droed ac ymwybyddiaeth o'r gêm, cydlyniant cymdeithasol a ffyrdd iach o fyw mewn cymuned LHDT+ yng Nghaerdydd, de Cymru a thu hwnt. Maent yn chwarae yng nghynghrair y Rhwydwaith Cefnogwyr Pêl-droed Hoyw yn erbyn timau o bob rhan o'r DU. Sefydlwyd y rhwydwaith cefnogwyr yn 1989 gan gefnogwyr y gêm, ac mae wedi ehangu o ddilyn y gêm yn unig i ymgyrchu dros hawliau LHDT+ a rhyddid rhag camdriniaeth tra byddant yn mynd i gemau yn ogystal â chwarae. Mae tîm Caerdydd hefyd yn chwarae mewn cynghreiriau heterorywiol, lle maent, o bryd i'w gilydd, yn wynebu sylwadau difrïol gan dimau sy'n chwarae yn eu herbyn. Er bod y gynghrair yn tueddu i ymdrin â'r cwynion hyn yn gyflym, mae'n rhaid inni ddeall bod gennym lawer o waith i'w wneud o hyd, yn anffodus, i fynd i'r afael â homoffobia, yn union fel hiliaeth, ym myd chwaraeon, yn enwedig mewn pêl-droed.
Felly, mae Dreigiau Caerdydd yn cynnal trafodaethau gyda Dinas Caerdydd i sefydlu rhwydwaith cefnogwyr LHDT Dinas Caerdydd ac maent yn gobeithio ei lansio ym mis Chwefror y flwyddyn nesaf i gyd-fynd â Mis Pêl-droed v Homoffobia, a byddaf wrth fy modd yn cefnogi hwnnw.
Nid oes gan dîm Cymru rwydwaith cefnogwyr LHDT ar hyn o bryd ychwaith, felly mae'r rhain yn fentrau pwysig i normaleiddio parch at wahaniaeth ym myd chwaraeon, sy'n un o'r meysydd lle mae pobl yn teimlo y gallant ddechrau lleisio eu rhagfarn.
Mae'n rhaid i ni fod yn wyliadwrus ac yn anoddefgar o homoffobia a hiliaeth mewn chwaraeon drwy'r amser. Mae'n rhaid inni sicrhau y galluogir y genhedlaeth nesaf i wrthsefyll y rhagfarnau etifeddol a ymgorfforwyd mewn cyfraith yn y gorffennol. Ac mae adran 28 eisoes wedi cael ei chrybwyll fel cyfnod gwirioneddol gywilyddus yn ein hanes. Gallaf gofio, dros ddegawd ar ôl dad-droseddoli, fod fy ewythr fy hun wedi bod mewn helynt gyda'r gyfraith sawl gwaith yn syml oherwydd nad oedd gan blismyn homoffobig unrhyw beth gwell i'w wneud nag aflonyddu ar bobl hoyw a oedd yn cyfarfod yn llechwraidd mewn mannau cyhoeddus yn hytrach na chael yr hyder i gyfarfod yn agored ar yr un telerau â phobl heterorywiol.
Can you wind up, please?
A allwch chi ddirwyn i ben, os gwelwch yn dda?
Siân Gwenllian has already mentioned the importance of the relationships and sexuality curriculum, and I do hope that this will be a game changer in ensuring that the next generation really does understand respect for difference and ensuring that people are not consumed by their prejudices, which can lead to lifelong mental health problems.
Mae Siân Gwenllian eisoes wedi sôn am bwysigrwydd y cwricwlwm cydberthynas a rhywioldeb, a gobeithiaf y bydd hyn yn arwain at newid sylfaenol o ran sicrhau bod y genhedlaeth nesaf yn deall parch at wahaniaeth a sicrhau nad yw pobl yn cael eu llethu gan eu rhagfarnau, sy'n gallu arwain at broblemau iechyd meddwl gydol oes.
May I congratulate Siân Gwenllian on getting this debate and leading it in the way she has, and on her work in her constituency? I was particularly interested in the story around the youth club there, GISDA.
She did say at one point in her speech that prejudice was the root of the increase. We heard from Leanne Wood that, I think quite rightly, social attitudes have progressed a lot in recent decades. I just don't know whether it's right to say that prejudice is the root of the increase, which, to me, implies that prejudice has got worse. I don't know if that is the case in the near term. Certainly, in the longer term, my impression, as with Leanne, is that things have got better—clearly, not good enough and there are problems that we need to address.
We have these statistics, and the focus has been on those reported to the police and the way they've recorded the crimes, and the 17 per cent increase in Wales and the 10 per cent across England and Wales in the past year. When someone reports a hate crime, it's very important that the police record them in a consistent way. Until recently, unfortunately, there's evidence that that hasn't been the case, and it's important that the standards of crime recording are set centrally.
The way it's done is, if someone alleges a crime has been committed, reports an incident, then it's recorded as a crime. If that person, or indeed anyone else, says that they consider race or another protected characteristic to be a motivating factor, then, again, it must be recorded as a hate crime. I think that is right and proper, but it's also right that we understand that and how that wasn't reliably the case in the past. And not all of these cases were necessarily proved to be that, and we haven't heard from other people there, or particularly a defendant, as to what they might say. I think 13 per cent of these cases lead to a charge or a summons, which is a somewhat higher proportion than for crime overall.
What I think is a useful corrective, though, is to check the police recorded crime statistics against what we see from the British crime survey. The trend in that has been different. On these issues, we've got the waves of the survey, and the first I'll refer to is in 2007 to 2009, and that, grossed up from the survey number to total population, suggested 69,000 hate crimes related to sexual orientation across the UK. And then, in 2010-12, that fell from 69,000 to 42,000 on the British crime survey, and then in 2013-15 fell again to 29,000. There is a small uptick in 2016-18 from 29,000 to 30,000, but not statistically significant on the basis of the numbers in the survey. On the transgender hate crimes, they didn't ask the relevant questions back in the first two surveys. They did in the latter two, but they have a sort of asterisk response, saying that the numbers were too small for them reliably to gross up and give an estimate for the country as a whole. One hate crime is too many, and these transgender hate crimes—. Clearly, transgender people and having that identity has become greater, and it's talked about in a way that it wasn't even almost a decade or so ago. People may debate what are the arrangements for sport or what are the arrangements for lavatories, but it's inexcusable when there are crimes, often crimes of violence, simply for, or at least motivated by, someone's identity.
So, I agree with much of what's been said in this debate, but I would just put that corrective of looking at the British crime survey, as well as the recorded police statistics. I would say that, when you compare the police statistics across the UK, overall, the Welsh forces aren't coming in the top 10 for hate crimes, but there's one exception to that, and that area is sexual orientation, where two of the Welsh forces—Gwent, in my region, and south Wales, which touches on part of my region—are fourth and fifth out of the 43, at 26 hate crimes on sexual orientation per 100,000. So, it may suggest at least in south Wales there is a particular issue there in Wales that we should be concerned about and interrogate why that is, and look to see how we can improve it, even if, overall, on the other hate crimes, we don't see Wales to the fore.
I'll just say that I'm not yet convinced of the link to points 2 and 3 of the motion, and for that reason I don't propose to support the motion today. It's unfortunate in terms of timing, because I'm very much looking forward to hearing Lord Thomas tomorrow; I think he's launching his commissioner's report on the Justice Commission for Wales from 8:30 tomorrow in the Pierhead. I hope to see some colleagues there, and I really want to listen to, read and digest that report before considering our position on devolution of justice. We're not yet convinced of it; in particular, I'd worry if we were then to go from police and crime commissioners who are elected to a Wales-wide force. I know that Wales's Government is doing some good things in some areas here, but that of itself doesn't strike me as a sufficient reason to devolve the whole of justice, but I will be reading very, very carefully what Lord Thomas and his team say tomorrow. Thank you.
A gaf fi longyfarch Siân Gwenllian am gyflwyno'r ddadl hon ac am ei harwain yn y ffordd y gwnaeth, ac ar ei gwaith yn ei hetholaeth? Roedd gennyf ddiddordeb arbennig yn y stori ynglŷn â'r clwb ieuenctid yno, GISDA.
Fe ddywedodd ar un adeg yn ei haraith mai rhagfarn oedd wrth wraidd y cynnydd. Dywedodd Leanne Wood, a hynny'n gwbl briodol rwy'n credu, fod agweddau cymdeithasol wedi datblygu gryn dipyn yn ystod y degawdau diwethaf. Nid wyf yn gwybod a yw'n iawn dweud mai rhagfarn sydd wrth wraidd y cynnydd, oherwydd mae hynny, i mi, yn awgrymu bod rhagfarn wedi gwaethygu. Nid wyf yn gwybod a yw hynny'n wir yn y tymor byr. Yn sicr, yn y tymor hwy, fy argraff i, fel Leanne, yw bod pethau wedi gwella—yn amlwg, nid yw'n ddigon da ac mae yna broblemau y mae angen inni fynd i'r afael â hwy.
Mae gennym yr ystadegau hyn, ac mae'r ffocws wedi bod ar y rhai yr adroddwyd wrth yr heddlu yn eu cylch a'r ffordd y maent wedi cofnodi'r troseddau, a'r cynnydd o 17 y cant yng Nghymru a'r 10 y cant ar draws Cymru a Lloegr dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf. Pan fydd rhywun yn rhoi gwybod am drosedd casineb, mae'n bwysig iawn fod yr heddlu'n eu cofnodi mewn ffordd gyson. Tan yn ddiweddar, yn anffodus, dengys tystiolaeth nad yw hynny wedi digwydd, ac mae'n bwysig fod safonau cofnodi troseddau'n cael eu gosod yn ganolog.
Y ffordd y gwneir hyn yw fod rhywun yn rhoi gwybod am ddigwyddiad os yw'n honni bod trosedd wedi'i chyflawni, a chaiff ei gofnodi fel trosedd. Os yw'r person hwnnw, neu unrhyw un arall yn wir, yn dweud eu bod yn ystyried bod hil neu nodwedd warchodedig arall yn ffactor ysgogiadol, yna, unwaith eto, mae'n rhaid ei gofnodi fel trosedd casineb. Rwy'n credu bod hynny'n iawn ac yn briodol, ond mae hefyd yn iawn ein bod yn deall hynny ac yn deall nad oedd hynny'n digwydd mewn modd dibynadwy yn y gorffennol. Ac ni phrofwyd mai dyma oedd pob un o'r achosion hyn o reidrwydd, ac nid ydym wedi clywed gan bobl eraill a oedd yno, na diffynnydd yn arbennig, o ran yr hyn y gallent ei ddweud. Rwy'n credu bod 13 y cant o'r achosion hyn yn arwain at gyhuddiad neu wŷs, sy'n gyfran ychydig yn uwch nag ar gyfer troseddau'n gyffredinol.
Fodd bynnag, credaf mai un dull cywirol defnyddiol yw cymharu ystadegau troseddau a gofnodwyd gan yr heddlu â'r hyn a welwn yn arolwg troseddu Prydain. Mae'r duedd wedi bod yn wahanol yn hwnnw. Ar y materion hyn, mae gennym amrywiadau'r arolwg, ac mae'r cyntaf rwyf am gyfeirio ato yn arolwg 2007 i 2009, ac roedd hwnnw, o'i grosio i fyny o ffigur yr arolwg i'r boblogaeth gyfan, yn awgrymu bod 69,000 o droseddau casineb yn gysylltiedig â chyfeiriadedd rhywiol wedi'u cyflawni ledled y DU. Ac yna, yn 2010-12, disgynnodd y ffigur hwnnw o 69,000 i 42,000 yn arolwg troseddu Prydain, ac yn 2013-15 disgynnodd eto i 29,000. Ceir cynnydd bach yn 2016-18 o 29,000 i 30,000, ond nid yw'n ystadegol arwyddocaol ar sail y niferoedd yn yr arolwg. Ar y troseddau casineb trawsryweddol, nid oeddent yn gofyn y cwestiynau perthnasol yn y ddau arolwg cyntaf. Gwnaethant hynny yn y ddau olaf, ond mae ganddynt ryw fath o ymateb seren, drwy ddweud bod y niferoedd yn rhy fach iddynt allu grosio i fyny'n ddibynadwy a rhoi amcangyfrif ar gyfer y wlad yn ei chyfanrwydd. Mae un drosedd casineb yn ormod, ac mae'r troseddau casineb trawsryweddol hyn—. Yn amlwg, mae pobl drawsryweddol, a nifer y bobl sy'n arddel yr hunaniaeth honno wedi cynyddu, ac mae'n cael ei drafod mewn ffordd nad oedd yn digwydd oddeutu degawd yn ôl. Efallai y bydd pobl yn dadlau ynglŷn â'r trefniadau ar gyfer chwaraeon neu beth yw'r trefniadau ar gyfer tai bach, ond mae'n anfaddeuol pan fydd troseddau'n cael eu cyflawni, a throseddau treisgar yn aml, a hynny'n unig oherwydd, neu o leiaf yn cael eu hysgogi gan hunaniaeth rhywun.
Felly, cytunaf â llawer o'r hyn a ddywedwyd yn y ddadl hon, ond buaswn yn cynnwys yr elfen gywirol honno o edrych ar arolwg troseddu Prydain yn ogystal â'r ystadegau heddlu a gofnodwyd. Pan fyddwch yn cymharu ystadegau'r heddlu ar draws y DU, yn gyffredinol, buaswn yn dweud nad yw heddluoedd Cymru yn y 10 uchaf ar gyfer troseddau casineb, ond mae un eithriad i hynny, a chyfeiriadedd rhywiol yw'r maes hwnnw, lle mae dau o heddluoedd Cymru—Gwent, yn fy rhanbarth i, a de Cymru, sy'n cyffwrdd â rhan o fy rhanbarth—yn bedwerydd ac yn bumed o'r 43, gyda 26 trosedd casineb ar sail cyfeiriadedd rhywiol am bob 100,000. Felly, mae'n bosibl ei fod yn awgrymu bod problem benodol yno yng Nghymru, yn ne Cymru o leiaf, y dylem fod yn boenus yn ei chylch ac y dylem holi pam fod hynny'n digwydd, ac edrych i weld sut y gallwn ei wella, hyd yn oed os nad yw Cymru ar y blaen, yn gyffredinol, mewn perthynas â'r troseddau casineb eraill.
Fe ddywedaf yn syml nad wyf wedi cael fy argyhoeddi eto o'r cyswllt â phwyntiau 2 a 3 yn y cynnig, ac am y rheswm hwnnw nid wyf yn bwriadu cefnogi'r cynnig heddiw. Mae'n anffodus o ran amseru, oherwydd rwy'n edrych ymlaen yn fawr at glywed yr Arglwydd Thomas yfory; rwy'n credu ei fod yn lansio'i adroddiad comisiynydd ar y Comisiwn ar Gyfiawnder yng Nghymru am 8:30 yfory yn y Pierhead. Rwy'n gobeithio gweld rhai o fy nghyd-Aelodau yno, ac rwy'n awyddus iawn i wrando, darllen ac ystyried yr adroddiad hwnnw cyn ystyried ein safbwynt ar ddatganoli cyfiawnder. Nid ydym wedi ein darbwyllo ynglŷn â hynny eto; yn benodol, buaswn yn poeni pe baem yn mynd o gomisiynwyr heddlu a throseddu sydd wedi'u hethol i heddlu ar gyfer Cymru gyfan yn sgil hynny. Gwn fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwneud rhai pethau da mewn rhai meysydd yma, ond nid yw hynny ynddo'i hun yn rheswm digonol dros ddatganoli cyfiawnder yn ei gyfanrwydd yn fy marn i, ond fe fyddaf yn darllen yr hyn a ddywed yr Arglwydd Thomas a'i dîm yfory yn ofalus iawn. Diolch.
Diolch, Llywydd, and I'm really pleased to be speaking in this debate. There's a famous line in the 1976 film, Network: 'I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore'. It's a statement for our time, isn't it? So much anger, especially from the keyboard warriors online. But, at the same time, people aren't prepared to take it anymore. Victims of abuse are reporting crimes, calling out the trolls and the bullies in record numbers. So, that's why we must encourage and support the reporting mechanisms, as Welsh Government is doing through the National Hate Crime Report and Support centre, as well as the new hate crime minority communities grant.
The police stats for the last year do show a 17 per cent increase in reported hate crimes in Wales compared to the year before. Today, we are focusing on crimes against the LGBT community and, as has already been said, they do account for nearly a quarter of all recorded offences. The charity Stonewall says that it's just the tip of the iceberg, and according to their research four in five anti-LGBT hate crimes go unreported, with younger people particularly reluctant to go to the police. So, it seems that it's impossible to tackle this pervasive problem through the criminal justice system alone. It is society's problem and it demands social solutions.
Next month, I'll be organising a series of White Ribbon campaign events to raise awareness against domestic abuse, and the big focus for me is engaging with young people by linking that to healthy relationships that are taught at school. The only fears we're born with The only fears we're born with are of heights and loud noises. Everything else is learned behaviour. In other words, children are innately tolerant. It's us, the adults, that are the problem, quite frankly. With social media so central to their lives today, young people are perhaps uniquely vulnerable to being attacked for who they are, what they believe in and who they love. That is why we must defend LGBT-inclusive lessons now more than ever. We've seen on the news how schools in Birmingham trying to teach the No Outsiders programme have been attacked on supposedly religious grounds. It's sad to see adults preaching bigotry outside school gates. It reminds me of the ugly images from another Birmingham—Birmingham, Alabama in the 1960s. That was a different prejudice, driven by the same narrow-mindedness. I hope, then, that the Welsh Government will back our schools and our education authorities to the hilt against any such campaigns, should they arise in Wales.
Diolch, Lywydd, ac rwy'n falch iawn o gael siarad yn y ddadl hon. Mae llinell enwog yn y ffilm Network, a ddaeth allan yn 1976: 'I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore'. Onid yw'n ddatganiad am ein cyfnod ni? Cymaint o ddicter, yn enwedig gan y rhyfelwyr bysellfwrdd ar-lein. Ond ar yr un pryd, nid yw pobl yn barod i'w ddioddef mwyach. Mae dioddefwyr camdriniaeth yn rhoi gwybod am droseddau, a'r nifer uchaf erioed yn adrodd am droliau a bwlis. Felly, dyna pam y mae'n rhaid i ni annog a chefnogi'r mecanweithiau adrodd, fel y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud drwy'r Ganolfan Genedlaethol Adrodd am Droseddau Casineb a Chymorth, yn ogystal â'r grant cymunedau lleiafrifol i fynd i'r afael â throseddau casineb.
Mae ystadegau'r heddlu ar gyfer y flwyddyn ddiwethaf yn dangos cynnydd o 17 y cant yn y troseddau casineb yr adroddwyd yn eu cylch yng Nghymru o gymharu â'r flwyddyn flaenorol. Heddiw, rydym yn canolbwyntio ar droseddau yn erbyn y gymuned LHDT ac fel y dywedwyd eisoes, dyna yw bron i chwarter yr holl droseddau a gofnodwyd. Mae elusen Stonewall yn dweud nad yw hyn ond yn crafu'r wyneb, ac yn ôl eu hymchwil, ni roddir gwybod am bedair o bob pum trosedd casineb gwrth-LHDT, ac mae pobl iau yn arbennig o gyndyn i fynd at yr heddlu. Felly, mae'n ymddangos ei bod yn amhosibl mynd i'r afael â'r broblem hollbresennol hon drwy'r system cyfiawnder troseddol yn unig. Problem cymdeithas yw hi ac mae'n mynnu atebion cymdeithasol.
Fis nesaf, byddaf yn trefnu cyfres o ddigwyddiadau ymgyrch y Rhuban Gwyn i godi ymwybyddiaeth o gam-drin domestig, a'r ffocws mawr i mi yw ymgysylltu â phobl ifanc drwy gysylltu hynny â chydberthynas iach sy'n cael ei addysgu yn yr ysgol. Yr unig ofnau y cawn ein geni â hwy yw ofn uchder ac ofn synau uchel. Mae popeth arall yn ymddygiad a ddysgir. Mewn geiriau eraill, mae plant yn gynhenid oddefgar. Ni, yr oedolion, yw'r broblem a bod yn onest. Gyda chyfryngau cymdeithasol mor ganolog i'w bywydau heddiw, efallai bod pobl ifanc yn fwy agored na neb i gael eu beirniadu am bwy ydynt, beth maent yn ei gredu a phwy maent yn eu caru. Dyna pam fod rhaid inni amddiffyn gwersi LHDT-gynhwysol yn awr yn fwy nag erioed. Gwelsom ar y newyddion sut yr ymosodwyd ar ysgolion yn Birmingham sy'n ceisio dysgu'r rhaglen No Outsiders, a hynny am resymau crefyddol honedig. Mae'n drist gweld oedolion yn pregethu rhagfarn y tu allan i gatiau ysgol. Mae'n fy atgoffa o'r lluniau hyll o Birmingham arall—Birmingham, Alabama yn y 1960au. Roedd hwnnw'n fath gwahanol o ragfarn, ond câi ei yrru gan yr un culni meddwl. Rwy'n gobeithio felly y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn cefnogi ein hysgolion a'n hawdurdodau addysg i'r eithaf yn erbyn ymgyrchoedd o'r fath, pe baent yn digwydd yng Nghymru.
Thank you. Can I now call the Deputy Minister and Chief Whip, Jane Hutt?
Diolch. A gaf fi alw yn awr ar y Dirprwy Weinidog a'r Prif Chwip, Jane Hutt?
Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. I want to start by thanking Members for bringing forward this debate today, which the Welsh Government welcomes. It does contribute to our drive to secure greater equality and inclusion for all people in Wales. Intolerance, hate speech and instances of hate crime have no place in our society. We're determined to root them out, and the debate today has shown the strength of feeling on those points across the Chamber. Any incident of hate crime, regardless of its type or manner, is unacceptable. I've written to the Home Secretary to urge the UK Government to acknowledge hate crime motivated by hostility based on sexual orientation be recognised as an aggravated offence, in line with race and faith hate crime, and, in addition, I will be writing to the Home Secretary urging hate crime motivated by hostility based on transgender identity and disability also be recognised as an aggravated offence.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Hoffwn ddechrau drwy ddiolch i'r Aelodau am gyflwyno'r ddadl hon heddiw, dadl a groesewir gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Mae'n cyfrannu at ein hymgyrch i sicrhau mwy o gydraddoldeb a chynhwysiant i holl bobl Cymru. Nid oes lle i anoddefgarwch, iaith casineb ac achosion o droseddau casineb yn ein cymdeithas. Rydym yn benderfynol o'u chwynnu, ac mae'r ddadl heddiw wedi dangos pa mor gryf yw'r teimladau ar y pwyntiau hynny ar draws y Siambr. Mae pob math o drosedd casineb yn annerbyniol. Rwyf wedi ysgrifennu at yr Ysgrifennydd Cartref i annog Llywodraeth y DU i gydnabod bod troseddau casineb a ysgogir gan elyniaeth ar sail cyfeiriadedd rhywiol yn cael eu cydnabod fel troseddau gwaethygedig, yn unol â throseddau casineb ar sail hil a ffydd, ac yn ogystal, byddaf yn ysgrifennu at yr Ysgrifennydd Cartref i annog Llywodraeth y DU i gydnabod bod troseddau casineb a ysgogir gan elyniaeth ar sail hunaniaeth drawsryweddol ac anabledd yn droseddau gwaethygedig hefyd.
Will the Minister take an intervention? I'm really pleased to hear you say that you'll be making those representations. Of course, one of the protected characteristics where violence against the persons holding that protected characteristic is not treated as a hate crime is violence against women. Do you believe that there may be a case? I wouldn't ask you to postpone—I'd ask you to consider the action on the others—but I'd ask you to consider whether the time has come to make violence against women treatable as a hate crime as well, because, after all, misogyny is one of the deepest and most deep-rooted prejudices in our society today.
A wnaiff y Gweinidog dderbyn ymyriad? Rwy'n falch iawn o'ch clywed yn dweud y byddwch yn cyflwyno'r sylwadau hynny. Wrth gwrs, un o'r nodweddion gwarchodedig lle nad yw trais yn erbyn y rhai sydd â'r nodwedd warchodedig honno'n cael ei drin fel trosedd casineb yw trais yn erbyn menywod. A ydych yn credu y gall fod yna achos? Ni fuaswn yn gofyn i chi ohirio—buaswn yn gofyn i chi ystyried gweithredu ar y lleill—ond hoffwn ofyn i chi ystyried a yw'r amser wedi dod i drin trais yn erbyn menywod fel trosedd casineb yn ogystal, oherwydd, wedi'r cyfan, mae gwreig-gasineb yn un o'r rhagfarnau dyfnaf a mwyaf gwreiddiedig yn ein cymdeithas heddiw.
Yes. Well, I'm grateful to Helen Mary Jones for raising that point. Of course, there is an interaction, and I think the fact that hate crime—. This has been brought up today. Intersectionality has been particularly problematic as well. For example, there could be a disabled person who has also experienced hate crime and violence as well, and all of the protected characteristics need to be applicable in terms of recognising hate crime perpetrated on the basis of several protected characteristics.
But we must recognise that last week we did see a rise, a disappointing rise, in hate crime. The statistics published by the Home Office, as Siân Gwenllian said, show a 17 per cent increase in recorded hate crimes across Wales compared to 2017-18, and, of the 3,932 recorded hate crimes across the four Welsh police force areas, 19 per cent were sexual orientation hate crimes and 3 per cent transgender hate crimes, and although hate crimes related to LGBT+ individuals represent roughly 22 per cent of these crimes, this appears to be increasing. We have done a significant amount of work to increase awareness of hate crime and to urge victims to come forward and report, so the increase is likely to be partly due to an improvement in reporting, but these statistics remind us how we need to reflect on what more can be done—and that has to be the outcome of this debate—to ensure no-one is targeted because of their identity. So, the police forces across Wales also have worked hard to ensure they're correctly identifying hateful motivations for crime, and this may be driving some of the apparent increases in recorded hate crime, but we need to remember, as Nick Ramsay said, that behind each statistic is an individual with a story of hostility or trauma. Working with the four Welsh police forces and the hate crime criminal justice board, we have robust systems in place to investigate hate crimes, support victims and ensure perpetrators face justice. But we also have to review the effectiveness of those systems.
Ie. Wel, rwy'n ddiolchgar i Helen Mary Jones am godi'r pwynt hwnnw. Wrth gwrs, mae yna ryngweithiad, ac rwy'n credu bod y ffaith bod troseddau casineb—. Mae hyn wedi'i godi heddiw. Mae croestoriad wedi bod yn broblem arbennig hefyd. Er enghraifft, gallai person anabl fod wedi profi trosedd casineb a thrais hefyd, ac mae angen i bob un o'r nodweddion gwarchodedig fod yn gymwys o ran adnabod troseddau casineb a gyflawnir ar sail sawl nodwedd warchodedig.
Ond mae'n rhaid i ni gydnabod ein bod, yr wythnos ddiwethaf, wedi gweld cynnydd siomedig mewn troseddau casineb. Mae'r ystadegau a gyhoeddwyd gan y Swyddfa Gartref, fel y dywedodd Siân Gwenllian, yn dangos cynnydd o 17 y cant yn nifer y troseddau casineb a gofnodwyd ledled Cymru o'i gymharu â 2017-18, ac o'r 3,932 o droseddau casineb a gofnodwyd ar draws pedair ardal heddlu Cymru, roedd 19 y cant ohonynt yn droseddau casineb ar sail cyfeiriadedd rhywiol ac roedd 3 y cant ohonynt yn droseddau casineb ar sail trawsrywedd, ac er nad yw troseddau casineb sy'n gysylltiedig ag unigolion LHDT+ ond oddeutu 22 y cant o'r troseddau hyn, mae'n ymddangos bod y ffigur hwn yn cynyddu. Rydym wedi gwneud cryn dipyn o waith i gynyddu ymwybyddiaeth o droseddau casineb ac i annog dioddefwyr i roi gwybod amdanynt, felly mae'r cynnydd yn debygol o fod yn rhannol oherwydd bod cyfraddau adrodd wedi gwella, ond mae'r ystadegau hyn yn ein hatgoffa sut y mae angen feddwl beth arall y gellir ei wneud—ac mae'n rhaid sicrhau mai dyna yw canlyniad y ddadl hon—sicrhau nad oes neb yn cael eu targedu oherwydd eu hunaniaeth. Felly, mae'r heddluoedd ledled Cymru hefyd wedi gweithio'n galed i sicrhau eu bod yn nodi ysgogiadau i droseddau casineb yn gywir, ac mae'n bosibl fod hyn yn achosi rhywfaint o'r cynnydd ymddangosiadol yn nifer y troseddau casineb a gofnodwyd, ond mae angen inni gofio, fel y dywedodd Nick Ramsay, fod yna unigolyn â stori am elyniaeth neu drawma y tu ôl i bob ystadegyn. Gan weithio gyda'r pedwar heddlu yng Nghymru a'r bwrdd cyfiawnder troseddol ar gyfer troseddau casineb, mae gennym systemau cadarn ar waith i ymchwilio i droseddau casineb, cefnogi dioddefwyr a sicrhau bod troseddwyr yn cael eu dwyn i gyfrif. Ond mae'n rhaid i ni adolygu effeithiolrwydd y systemau hynny hefyd.
Through the European transition fund, we are providing an additional £360,000 over the next two years to the national hate crime report and support centre, run by Victim Support Cymru. That is important, as Joyce Watson said, it is also about how we're addressing this, raising awareness and supporting victims. The funding is going to be used to train volunteers and raise awareness of how to report hate crime. I visited the centre last week, along with organisations such as Stonewall Cymru and Pride, when we were looking at how we could ensure, support and advise the national hate crime report and support centre about the issues and that we were now able to extend their services with this funding.
Supporting victims is crucial, but we need to prevent hateful attitudes from forming in the first place. So, that's why we're also, through the EU transition funding, providing £350,000 to the Welsh Local Government Association for the hate crime in schools project. This project is designed to encourage children to develop their critical thinking skills, to question hateful speech and behaviour, and dissuade them from becoming perpetrators of hate crime in the future. So, activities will equip staff with the skills to challenge hate crime and support victims in school. And it is through this and the wider work on the new curriculum, which has already been mentioned, that we aim to support teaching staff to ensure that schools nurture ethical, informed citizens who contribute to more cohesive society.
We are developing a Wales-wide anti-hate crime communications campaign. We're gathering the views of people affected by hate crime to help shape the campaign. But I'm also pleased we've seen the growth of LGBT+ self-organised student groups in many of our schools. You've mentioned St Teilo's, Jenny Rathbone, the school group, and there are student-led bodies that are having a positive impact on their school communities and the attitudes and values of future generations of Welsh citizens.
I met with the GISDA project recently in north Wales. I'm horrified to hear about the assaults and the daily attitudes that those young people have faced. I raised this immediately with North Wales Police and community safety agencies, and I think there now is support coming forward.
But we do need to do all we can to advance LGBT rights through policy, funding and visible support. This can be also done through the events that we hold throughout the year—Pride events. In fact, in September, I had the honour of opening the first ever Barry Pride, and Pride events are happening in towns across Wales. The First Minister led the Pride Cymru parade in Cardiff. They do raise awareness of equality and diversity in the most visible way, and we provided £21,000 for Pride Cymru for this year's event.
I think it is important that the funding that we're giving to Stonewall Cymru, which we gave in 2017 for the equality inclusion grant, does include appointing a new education youth officer to work within schools across Wales, taking forward their school role models programme. And those role models will visit schools across Wales to tell their stories and raise awareness of LGBT people's experience. But they also have specific funding for a trans engagement officer.
So, it is through early-intervention prevention work, it's our community cohesion programme—£1.52 million over the next two years—supporting small teams in each of our eight community cohesion regions of Wales that we can improve and intensify our preventative work. And I do hope, also, that we can work together in terms of not just Welsh Government, local authorities, third sector, with the hate crime criminal justice board, but it also has to be with the UK Government.
So, we do look forward to seeing Lord Thomas's commission's report when it's published tomorrow. We'll be looking carefully at those recommendations and seeing what more we can do to improve justice outcomes. But I hope the reflection on wider issues will inform our consideration of how we can better tackle LGBT+ hate crime. We need a justice system that works for Wales, aligned with our policy drivers and commitment.
So, in closing, I want to reiterate that we are committed to creating a society where diversity is valued and respected and where everyone can flourish. I want to have a Government debate next year on hate crime to provide that progress report you called for and to ensure that we can be held to account for the work we're doing to drive this forward.
Drwy gronfa bontio'r UE, rydym yn darparu £360,000 ychwanegol dros y ddwy flynedd nesaf i'r ganolfan genedlaethol adrodd am droseddau casineb a chymorth, sy'n cael ei rhedeg gan Cymorth i Ddioddefwyr Cymru. Mae hynny'n bwysig, fel y dywedodd Joyce Watson, ac mae hefyd yn ymwneud â sut rydym yn mynd i'r afael â hyn, gan godi ymwybyddiaeth a chefnogi dioddefwyr. Bydd yr arian cael ei ddefnyddio i hyfforddi gwirfoddolwyr a chodi ymwybyddiaeth o sut i adrodd am droseddau casineb. Ymwelais â'r ganolfan yr wythnos ddiwethaf, ynghyd â sefydliadau megis Stonewall Cymru a Pride, pan fuom yn edrych ar sut y gallem sicrhau, cefnogi a chynghori'r ganolfan genedlaethol adrodd am droseddau casineb a chymorth mewn perthynas â'r materion dan sylw a bellach, gallwn ymestyn eu gwasanaethau gyda'r cyllid hwn.
Mae cefnogi dioddefwyr yn hanfodol, ond mae angen i ni atal agweddau cas rhag ffurfio yn y lle cyntaf. Felly, dyna pam rydym hefyd, drwy gyllid pontio'r UE, yn darparu £350,000 i Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru ar gyfer y prosiect troseddau casineb mewn ysgolion. Mae'r prosiect hwn wedi'i gynllunio i annog plant i ddatblygu eu sgiliau meddwl beirniadol, i gwestiynu siarad ac ymddygiad cas, a'u darbwyllo i beidio â chyflawni troseddau casineb yn y dyfodol. Felly, bydd gweithgareddau'n arfogi staff â'r sgiliau i herio troseddau casineb a chefnogi dioddefwyr yn yr ysgol. A thrwy hyn a'r gwaith ehangach ar y cwricwlwm newydd, sydd eisoes wedi'i grybwyll, ein nod yw cefnogi staff addysgu i sicrhau bod ysgolion yn meithrin dinasyddion egwyddorol, gwybodus sy'n cyfrannu at gymdeithas fwy cydlynus.
Rydym yn datblygu ymgyrch gyfathrebu ar droseddau casineb drwy Gymru gyfan. Rydym yn casglu barn pobl yr effeithiwyd arnynt gan droseddau casineb i helpu i lunio'r ymgyrch. Ond rwyf hefyd yn falch ein bod wedi gweld cynnydd mewn grwpiau myfyrwyr LHDT+ mewn llawer o'n hysgolion. Fe sonioch chi am Ysgol Teilo Sant, Jenny Rathbone, y grŵp yn yr ysgol, ac mae yna gyrff a arweinir gan fyfyrwyr sy'n cael effaith gadarnhaol ar eu cymunedau ysgol ac ar agweddau a gwerthoedd cenedlaethau'r dyfodol o ddinasyddion Cymru.
Cyfarfûm â phrosiect GISDA yng ngogledd Cymru yn ddiweddar. Rwy'n arswydo wrth glywed am yr ymosodiadau a'r agweddau y mae'r bobl ifanc hynny wedi'u hwynebu'n ddyddiol. Codais hyn ar unwaith gyda Heddlu Gogledd Cymru ac asiantaethau diogelwch cymunedol, ac rwy'n credu bod cymorth ar gael bellach.
Ond mae angen i ni wneud popeth yn ein gallu i hybu hawliau pobl LHDT drwy bolisïau, cyllid a chefnogaeth weladwy. Gellid gwneud hyn hefyd drwy'r digwyddiadau rydym yn eu cynnal drwy gydol y flwyddyn—digwyddiadau Pride. Yn wir, ym mis Medi, cefais y fraint o agor digwyddiad Pride y Barri cyntaf erioed, ac mae digwyddiadau Pride yn digwydd mewn trefi ledled Cymru. Y Prif Weinidog a arweiniodd orymdaith Pride Cymru yng Nghaerdydd. Maent yn codi ymwybyddiaeth o gydraddoldeb ac amrywiaeth yn y ffordd fwyaf amlwg, ac fe wnaethom ddarparu £21,000 i Pride Cymru ar gyfer y digwyddiad eleni.
Credaf ei bod yn bwysig fod yr arian rydym yn ei roi i Stonewall Cymru, arian a roesom yn 2017 ar gyfer y grant cydraddoldeb a chynhwysiant, yn cynnwys penodi swyddog ieuenctid addysg newydd i weithio mewn ysgolion ledled Cymru, gan ddatblygu eu rhaglen modelau rôl mewn ysgolion. A bydd y modelau rôl hynny'n ymweld ag ysgolion ledled Cymru i adrodd eu straeon a chodi ymwybyddiaeth o brofiad pobl LHDT. Ond mae ganddynt hefyd gyllid penodol ar gyfer swyddog ymgysylltu traws.
Felly, drwy waith atal ymyrraeth gynnar, drwy ein rhaglen cydlyniant cymunedol—£1.52 miliwn dros y ddwy flynedd nesaf—yn cefnogi timau bach ym mhob un o'r wyth rhanbarth cydlyniant cymunedol yng Nghymru y gallwn wella a dwysáu ein gwaith ataliol. Ac rwy'n gobeithio, hefyd, y gallwn weithio gyda'n gilydd, nid yn unig fel Llywodraeth Cymru, awdurdodau lleol, y trydydd sector, gyda'r bwrdd cyfiawnder troseddol ar gyfer troseddau casineb, ond mae'n rhaid iddo fod gyda Llywodraeth y DU hefyd.
Felly, rydym yn edrych ymlaen at weld adroddiad comisiynydd yr Arglwydd Thomas pan gaiff ei gyhoeddi yfory. Byddwn yn edrych yn ofalus ar yr argymhellion hynny ac yn gweld beth arall y gallwn ei wneud i wella canlyniadau cyfiawnder. Ond rwy'n gobeithio y bydd yr ystyriaeth a roddwyd i faterion ehangach yn llywio ein hystyriaeth ynglŷn â sut y gallwn fynd i'r afael â throseddau casineb LHDT+ yn well. Rydym angen system gyfiawnder sy'n gweithio i Gymru, sy'n gyson â'n hysgogiadau polisi a'n hymrwymiad.
Felly, i gloi, hoffwn ailadrodd ein bod wedi ymrwymo i greu cymdeithas lle caiff amrywiaeth ei gwerthfawrogi a'i pharchu a lle gall pawb ffynnu. Rwyf eisiau cael dadl ar droseddau casineb yn y Llywodraeth y flwyddyn nesaf i ddarparu'r adroddiad cynnydd hwnnw y galwasoch amdano a sicrhau y gallwn gael ein dwyn i gyfrif am y gwaith a wnawn i symud ymlaen ar hyn.
Thank you. Can I now call on Mick Antoniw to reply to the debate?
Diolch. A gaf fi alw yn awr ar Mick Antoniw i ymateb i'r ddadl?
Thank you, Deputy Llywydd. First, I start by thanking Siân Gwenllian for bringing forward and instigating this debate—I think a very timely debate. Siân, of course, has a long history of campaigning on these issues, as have quite a number of people within this Chamber, so it was good to see these coming together for this debate today.
It isn't my intention, as is sometimes traditional with these, to summarise what everyone has said, because the points have been made so powerfully; the statistics are there. So, I really just thought that it might be an opportunity to reflect, actually, on where we have come from, because certainly those of my generation and anyone brought up in school in the late 1950s and early 1960s will know that, in school, racism, homophobia and antisemitism were part of the culture of schools. The actual changes that have taken place through the 1960s, the 1970s, the 1980s to today are quite phenomenal and I think it's important to recognise them, because in recognising those, we're also able to identify what the current challenges still are.
I remember when I was a student, when the National Union of Students Wales was formed, they were one of the bodies that first, actually, went over the barricades in order to take forward the campaign for gay rights then, which was not popular. It was not a welcoming campaign that people approached with open arms. But it was one that I think young people coming up in the 1970s felt was a necessary one that had to be fought; it was part of the change in society. And in Wales, in fact, it was the Welsh national institutions that produced, I think, the first Welsh translation of the campaign—'ymgyrch hawliau hoyw'—and distributed badges at the 1976 or 1977 Eisteddfod. And it was very interesting to see all these people going around thinking they were supporting a happy campaign, but it opened the door and it was the first step to confronting the inherent cultural prejudice that existed in so many communities and in those generations.
Of course, it's also important to recognise where we came from in respect of the numbers of people who, until the laws were changed, were prosecuted and actually jailed because of their sexual orientation. In 1945, 800 men were prosecuted, because it was regarded as a male offence. In 1955, 2,500 were prosecuted, of whom 700 were jailed. So, the actual significance of what was being done in the 1950s by leaders like Bertrand Russell, Clem Attlee and Isaiah Berlin to actually bring forward the concept of law reform and to challenge those—. It's quite sad within our society sometimes that we end up with correcting so many injustices posthumously. So, Alan Turing, when Gordon Brown actually apologised, supported by David Cameron at the time, for that. So many of these issues are ones that we have to deal with in that posthumous way. And the idea of chemical castration as being part of the norm of a treatment for a criminal offence would be something we would just regard as something that was fascistic.
Of course, we lived through the 1980s campaign, the section 28 campaign, where there was a mobilisation of Conservative forces to actually re-establish norms of restriction on gay rights, and a campaign to actually fight against that. And then the action that was taken to lower the age of consent from 21 to 18, which was, in fact, the campaign to lower it to 16, but of course, because of the objections there, it was only 18 at the time. I think everyone was amazed then, again, at the real breakthrough in legislation, which was the Civil Partnership Act 2004, which I think really opened the door.
But, we can't ignore that there is a substantial growth of prejudice and bigotry that was perhaps underlying there that now re-emerges within the toxicity that exists within our politics, not just within Wales or the UK, but across Europe and internationally. It is, in part, fuelled by the growth of the far right, and it is, in part, fuelled by inequality. If you look at the situation that gay people face now in Putin's Russia, the actual physical persecution that still exists, and we deal, as Governments, with these people, so the whole issue of how our international ethics need to change to actually combat this, rather than what effectively happens internationally, which is the turning of the blind eye to those unethical events.
I was so impressed—I know I can rarely make a speech without mentioning Ukraine because of my background—that they had the Pride demonstration for the first time in Kyiv where there were no events on it and politicians joined it. To see that comparator between what is happening there and then what is happening in Moscow, I think is important, because we live within this global world, yet there are still 73 countries where being gay is still not legal. So, I won't go through the statements on that, but clearly there are major issues within our communities in terms of sex education, training and the role that that actually plays. And I think we all still know that there is an enormous, long way to go, an undercurrent.
I not very long ago had a phone call during one of the election campaigns, someone lobbying me to ask me about what we were going to do about the obscenity of homosexuality that was being taught within our schools. The only way I thought I could respond was by saying, 'Well, my son is gay, what do you suggest I say to him?' and the phone was put down. But there is that undercurrent that feels more capable of talking in that particular way, and I think there are links between the forms of prejudice, of racism and bigotry that have emerged.
Can I also say—? In my past role, working as a trade union lawyer, the work that the trade union reps have done and the gay reps have done within our trade unions to actually give voice and representation. I'll never forget one representative who I was talking to and giving advice to on something was telling me that in his capacity as rep, his parents had never spoken to him since he declared that he was gay, and that there were still people like that, who basically don't have those sorts of family connections anymore.
We saw recently the attack on Owen Jones, the journalist, which was clearly a provoked gay attack on him, and because of his outspoken positions. So, I very much welcome how far we have come, but it is important to understand how far we still have to go. So, I very much look forward to what Lord Thomas is going to say tomorrow, because the key thing about devolution and the legal system—it's not about law for law's sake, but it's about laws being there to enable policy to actually work, to be implemented and enforced, and it's creating that framework.
I welcome all the speeches that have been made today. I'm just going to concentrate on a couple, because I thought Joyce—
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Yn gyntaf, rwyf am ddechrau drwy ddiolch i Siân Gwenllian am gyflwyno ac am agor y ddadl hon—rwy'n credu ei bod yn ddadl amserol iawn. Mae gan Siân, wrth gwrs, hanes hir o ymgyrchu ar y materion hyn, fel cryn dipyn o bobl yn y Siambr hon, felly roedd yn braf gweld y rhain yn dod at ei gilydd ar gyfer y ddadl hon heddiw.
Nid wyf yn bwriadu crynhoi'r hyn y mae pawb wedi'i ddweud, fel sydd weithiau'n draddodiadol gyda'r rhain, oherwydd mae'r pwyntiau wedi cael eu gwneud mor rymus; mae'r ystadegau yno. Felly, roeddwn yn meddwl y gallai fod yn gyfle i feddwl o ble rydym wedi dod mewn gwirionedd, oherwydd yn sicr bydd y rheini o fy nghenhedlaeth i, ac unrhyw un a fynychodd yr ysgol ar ddiwedd y 1950au a dechrau'r 1960au, yn gwybod fod hiliaeth, homoffobia a gwrthsemitiaeth yn rhan o ddiwylliant ysgolion. Mae'r newidiadau gwirioneddol sydd wedi digwydd drwy'r 1960au, yr 1970au, y 1980au hyd heddiw yn eithaf syfrdanol ac rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig eu cydnabod, oherwydd wrth gydnabod y rheini, rydym hefyd yn gallu nodi beth yw'r heriau sy'n dal i fodoli.
Cofiaf pan oeddwn yn fyfyriwr, pan ffurfiwyd Undeb Cenedlaethol Myfyrwyr Cymru, roeddent yn un o'r cyrff a aeth dros y baricedau gyntaf, mewn gwirionedd, er mwyn bwrw iddi â'r ymgyrch dros hawliau hoywon bryd hynny, rhywbeth nad oedd yn boblogaidd. Nid oedd yn ymgyrch gysurus y byddai pobl yn bwrw iddi gyda breichiau agored. Ond credaf fod pobl ifanc a oedd yn tyfu i fyny yn y 1970au yn teimlo ei bod yn ymgyrch angenrheidiol roedd yn rhaid ei hymladd; roedd yn rhan o'r newid yn y gymdeithas. Ac yng Nghymru, a dweud y gwir, y sefydliadau cenedlaethol Cymreig a gynhyrchodd, rwy'n credu, y cyfieithiad Cymraeg cyntaf o'r ymgyrch—'ymgyrch hawliau hoyw'—gan ddosbarthu bathodynnau yn Eisteddfod 1976 neu 1977. Ac roedd yn ddiddorol iawn gweld yr holl bobl hyn yn mynd o gwmpas yn credu eu bod yn cefnogi ymgyrch hapus, ond fe agorodd y drws ac roedd yn gam cyntaf i wynebu'r rhagfarn ddiwylliannol gynhenid a fodolai mewn cymaint o gymunedau ac yn y cenedlaethau hynny.
Wrth gwrs, mae hefyd yn bwysig cydnabod o ble rydym wedi dod o ran nifer y bobl a gafodd eu herlyn a'u carcharu mewn gwirionedd, oherwydd eu cyfeiriadedd rhywiol cyn i'r cyfreithiau gael eu newid. Yn 1945, erlynwyd 800 o ddynion, oherwydd câi ei ystyried yn drosedd wrywaidd. Yn 1955, erlynwyd 2,500, ac fe gafodd 700 eu carcharu. Felly, arwyddocâd gwirioneddol yr hyn a gâi ei wneud yn y 1950au gan arweinwyr fel Bertrand Russell, Clem Attlee ac Isaiah Berlin i gyflwyno'r cysyniad o ddiwygio'r gyfraith, mewn gwirionedd, ac i herio'r rheini—. Mae'n eithaf trist ein bod weithiau'n gorfod gwneud iawn am gynifer o anghyfiawnderau yn ein cymdeithas ar ôl marw'r rhai a gafodd gam. Felly yn achos Alan Turing, pan wnaeth Gordon Brown ymddiheuro am hynny, gyda chefnogaeth David Cameron ar y pryd. Mae cynifer o'r materion hyn yn rhai y mae'n rhaid inni ymdrin â hwy yn y ffordd honno, ar ôl i bobl farw. A byddai'r syniad o sbaddu cemegol fel triniaeth arferol ar gyfer trosedd yn rhywbeth y byddem yn ei ystyried yn ffasgaidd.
Wrth gwrs, rydym wedi byw drwy ymgyrch yr 1980au, ymgyrch adran 28, lle cafodd grymoedd Ceidwadol eu cynnull i ailsefydlu'r normau o gyfyngu ar hawliau hoyw, ac ymgyrch i frwydro yn erbyn y rheini mewn gwirionedd. Ac yna'r camau i ostwng yr oedran cydsynio o 21 i 18, sef, mewn gwirionedd, yr ymgyrch i'w ostwng i 16, ond wrth gwrs, oherwydd y gwrthwynebiadau, 18 oed yn unig ydoedd ar y pryd. Rwy'n credu bod pawb wedi rhyfeddu bryd hynny, eto, at y cam mawr ymlaen o ran deddfwriaeth, sef Deddf Partneriaeth Sifil 2004, a agorodd y drws go iawn yn fy marn i.
Ond ni allwn anwybyddu'r ffaith bod rhagfarn a chasineb yn cynyddu'n sylweddol, rhagfarn a oedd efallai o dan yr wyneb ac sydd bellach yn ailymddangos gyda'r gwenwyn sy'n bodoli yn ein gwleidyddiaeth, nid yn unig yng Nghymru neu'r DU, ond ar draws Ewrop ac yn rhyngwladol. Caiff ei hybu'n rhannol gan dwf yr asgell dde eithafol, ac yn rhannol gan anghydraddoldeb. Os edrychwch ar y sefyllfa y mae pobl hoyw yn ei hwynebu yn Rwsia Putin yn awr, yr erledigaeth gorfforol go iawn sy'n dal i fodoli, ac fel Llywodraethau, rydym yn ymdrin â'r bobl hyn, felly mae angen i'n moeseg ryngwladol newid i fynd i'r afael â hyn o ddifrif, yn hytrach na'r hyn sy'n digwydd yn rhyngwladol i bob pwrpas, sef troi llygad dall i'r digwyddiadau anfoesegol hynny.
Cefais fy nghalonogi—gwn mai anaml y gallaf wneud araith heb sôn am Ukrain oherwydd fy nghefndir—wrth weld eu bod wedi cynnal gorymdaith Pride am y tro cyntaf yn Kyiv, lle na chafwyd unrhyw ddigwyddiadau ac ymunodd gwleidyddion â hi. Credaf ei bod yn bwysig cymharu'r hyn sy'n digwydd yno â'r hyn sy'n digwydd ym Moscow, oherwydd rydym yn byw yn y byd global hwn, ond eto ceir 73 o wledydd lle mae bod yn hoyw yn anghyfreithlon o hyd. Felly, ni fyddaf yn mynd drwy'r datganiadau ar hynny, ond mae'n amlwg fod problemau mawr yn ein cymunedau o ran addysg rhyw, hyfforddiant a'r rôl y mae hynny'n ei chwarae mewn gwirionedd. Ac rwy'n credu ein bod i gyd yn dal i wybod bod yna ffordd eithriadol o bell i fynd, ac isgerrynt.
Ychydig yn ôl, yn ystod un o'r ymgyrchoedd etholiadol, cefais alwad ffôn gan rywun yn fy lobïo i ofyn beth oeddem yn bwriadu ei wneud am anlladrwydd cyfunrhywiaeth a oedd yn cael ei ddysgu yn ein hysgolion. Yr unig ffordd y credwn y gallwn ymateb oedd drwy ddweud, 'Wel, mae fy mab yn hoyw, beth ydych chi'n awgrymu y dylwn ei ddweud wrtho?' a rhoddodd y ffôn i lawr. Ond mae yna isgerrynt sy'n gwneud i bobl deimlo'n fwy parod i siarad yn y ffordd honno, ac rwy'n credu bod cysylltiadau rhwng y mathau o ragfarn a hiliaeth a chasineb sydd wedi dod i'r amlwg.
A gaf fi ddweud hefyd—? Yn fy hen swydd, yn gweithio fel cyfreithiwr i undeb llafur, gwnaeth cynrychiolwyr undebau llafur a chynrychiolwyr pobl hoyw yn ein hundebau llafur lawer o waith i roi llais a chynrychiolaeth. Ni wnaf byth anghofio un cynrychiolydd roeddwn yn siarad ag ef ac yn rhoi cyngor iddo ar rywbeth yn dweud wrthyf yn rhinwedd ei swydd fel cynrychiolydd nad oedd ei rieni wedi siarad ag ef ers iddo ddatgan ei fod yn hoyw, ac mae yna bobl felly yn bodoli o hyd, pobl nad oes ganddynt y mathau hynny o gysylltiadau teuluol mwyach.
Yn ddiweddar, clywsom am yr ymosodiad ar Owen Jones, y newyddiadurwr, a oedd yn amlwg yn ymosodiad heb ei gymell arno am ei fod yn hoyw, ac oherwydd ei safbwyntiau agored. Felly, rwy'n croesawu'n fawr pa mor bell rydym wedi dod, ond mae'n bwysig deall pa mor bell sydd gennym i fynd o hyd. Felly, rwy'n edrych ymlaen yn fawr at yr hyn y bydd yr Arglwydd Thomas yn ei ddweud yfory, oherwydd y peth allweddol am ddatganoli a'r system gyfreithiol—nid yw'n ymwneud â chyfraith er mwyn y gyfraith, mae'n ymwneud â sicrhau bod cyfreithiau yno i alluogi polisi i weithio, i gael ei weithredu a'i orfodi, ac mae'n ymwneud â chreu'r fframwaith hwnnw.
Rwy'n croesawu'r holl areithiau a wnaed heddiw. Rwyf am ganolbwyntio ar gwpl ohonynt, oherwydd roeddwn yn credu bod Joyce—
No, no, I think you're going to have to be quick.
Na, na, rwy'n credu y bydd yn rhaid i chi fod yn gyflym.
I'll conclude now. Joyce Watson has made a couple of very important points: the impact of social media, the importance of reporting mechanisms, the points from Stonewall about the tip of the iceberg and, for example, what has been happening in Birmingham and the lessons we must be aware of and learn from that. And to welcome very much what the Minister has said in terms of the funding, the reporting and the campaigns. But as the old National Union of Miners miners have always said, the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and we need to be vigilant in this area as in so many other areas at this very difficult, toxic political time and situation that we live in. Thank you.
Fe ddof i ben yn awr. Mae Joyce Watson wedi gwneud cwpl o bwyntiau pwysig iawn: effaith y cyfryngau cymdeithasol, pwysigrwydd mecanweithiau adrodd, y pwyntiau a wnaed gan Stonewall ynglŷn â'r ffaith nad yw hyn ond yn crafu'r wyneb ac er enghraifft, yr hyn sydd wedi bod yn digwydd yn Birmingham a'r gwersi y mae'n rhaid inni fod yn ymwybodol ohonynt a dysgu oddi wrth hynny. Ac i groesawu'n fawr iawn yr hyn y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'i ddweud o ran ariannu, yr adroddiadau a'r ymgyrchoedd. Ond fel y mae hen Undeb Cenedlaethol y Glowyr wedi'i ddweud erioed, pris rhyddid yw gwyliadwriaeth dragwyddol, ac mae angen inni fod yn wyliadwrus yn y maes hwn fel mewn cynifer o feysydd eraill yn ystod yr adeg a'r sefyllfa wleidyddol wenwynig ac anodd iawn rydym yn byw ynddi. Diolch.
Thank you. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No, therefore, the motion's agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Diolch. Y cynnig yw derbyn y cynnig. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Na, felly, derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
We now move on to the debate on the Children, Young People and Education Committee report, 'School Funding in Wales', and I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion. Lynne Neagle.
Symudwn ymlaen yn awr at y ddadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg, 'Cyllido Ysgolion yng Nghymru', a galwaf ar Gadeirydd y pwyllgor i gyflwyno'r cynnig. Lynne Neagle.
Cynnig NDM7166 Lynne Neagle
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:
Yn nodi Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg—Cyllido Ysgolion yng Nghymru, a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 10 Gorffennaf 2019.
Motion NDM7166 Lynne Neagle
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
Notes the Children, Young People and Education Committee Report—School Funding in Wales, which was laid in the Table Office on 10 July 2019.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'm pleased to open this debate today on the Children, Young People and Education Committee’s report into school funding in Wales. Access to high-quality education is a fundamental right for all our children and young people. It should not depend on where you live, on your social background or the language in which you learn.
Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n falch o gael agor y ddadl hon heddiw ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg ar gyllido ysgolion yng Nghymru. Mae mynediad at addysg o ansawdd uchel yn hawl sylfaenol i'n plant a'n pobl ifanc i gyd. Ni ddylai ddibynnu ar ble rydych yn byw, eich cefndir cymdeithasol na'r iaith rydych yn dysgu ynddi.
Daeth y Llywydd i’r Gadair.
The Llywydd took the Chair.
A good education is one of the most important building blocks a child can receive. However, all too often we hear about the huge pressures being faced by schools in trying to manage their budgets where the funding they receive is not sufficient. This is clearly having a negative effect on the provision of education, including schools having to make staff cuts in order to balance their budgets.
Issues had also been raised about the level of transparency and variation in the distribution of funding for schools and there has been debate over the balance between unhypothecated funding for local government and the more targeted funding aimed specifically at Welsh Government education priorities. More recently, we have heard widespread concern that insufficient school budgets would inhibit the delivery of the Welsh Government’s education reform agenda.
There is an immense and unprecedented level of reform going on in education. We have the radical new curriculum for Wales, a major new additional learning needs Act, the delivery of the whole-school approach to mental health and wide-ranging reforms to professional learning underpinning them all. We cannot expect these major reforms to succeed without adequate funding.
In light of this, the committee agreed to undertake the inquiry to look specifically at both the sufficiency of school funding in Wales and the way in which school budgets are determined and allocated. In taking the inquiry forward, we took evidence from a wide range of stakeholders across the sector. We also undertook detailed case studies with three schools, in which we met with people at all levels—pupils and parents, teachers and school leaders, local authorities and school governors. What we heard in all three schools was very hard-hitting, and, on occasions, alarming. Seeing directly the effect of budget constraints on those on the front line highlighted just how urgently this situation needs to be addressed. I would like to thank all those who took the time to meet with us during the case studies, and for their honest views on the problems being faced.
In total the Committee made 21 recommendations, covering a wide range of issues. In the time available today, I can't cover all our recommendations. I will, however, outline some of the main concerns raised. We are pleased that the Minister for Education has accepted all of the recommendations in our report and the broad welcome she has given to the committee’s work in this key area. It is concerning, though, that the Minister’s response lacks clear detail on how a number of the recommendations will be taken forward. And I hope that the Minister will be able to expand on her response during the debate today on a number of those key recommendations.
In outlining the findings of the inquiry, I’d like to start with the most worrying conclusion we reached as a committee, and where the evidence received was overwhelming. Put quite simply, there is not enough money going into the education system in Wales and not enough finding its way to schools. We saw this first-hand during our school visits. As we've outlined in the report, this is a simple conclusion that, unfortunately, does not have a simple solution. The system for funding schools is hugely complex, multilayered and dependent on many factors, not least of course the amount of money available to the Welsh Government from Westminster. It must also be recognised that responsibility for providing adequate funding for our schools cuts across ministerial portfolios. Given the complexity of the funding formulas, Ministers across Welsh Government must work together to ensure that schools receive the funding they need.
Additional funding for education is essential—and I’ll return to this point shortly—but while it would have been easy to simply recommend additional funding, we believe that increasing the level of funding alone is not the solution. The funding must also be used effectively and in the right places. To fully understand the problems being faced by our schools, it is crucial that we first know the extent of the funding gap facing the education system in Wales, particularly at this time of substantial reform. We need to understand how much it costs to run a school and to educate a child, as a basic minimum, before all necessary factors such as deprivation and sparsity are taken into account, as well as the huge reform agenda.
Recommendation 1 in our report is therefore clear in its call for the Welsh Government to undertake an urgent review to establish this. The response from the Minister has been very positive, confirming that work has already started between Welsh Government and local government to consider the scope of the review. I look forward to receiving an update on action in due course from the Minister. Can I say, though, that whatever the outcome of that inquiry, it cannot be put in the ‘too difficult’ box, as has happened with previous reviews on school funding, such as the Bramley review in 2007 and the years that followed?
Returning to the issue of additional funding, I’m sure that Members are aware that recent funding announcements for education in England have led to a consequential of nearly £200 million for Wales. In view of the fact that the Welsh Government has accepted all the recommendations of the committee’s report, I would hope that most, if not all of this, will be earmarked for education in Wales.
As our report sets out, the problems being faced are not just about the level of funding for schools but also about the way it makes its way to the school front line and how it is used. This clearly depends on a number of factors, including budget prioritisation at a Welsh Government level, how resources for local government are shared out between authorities, whether local authorities prioritise schools within their own budget-setting process, the extent to which they delegate funding to schools themselves, and how they distribute that funding between schools.
Given the complexity of the system, we were concerned to learn that the Welsh Government does not monitor the level of priority that local authorities give to schools within their distribution of funding. Welsh Government has been very clear throughout the inquiry that local authorities are responsible for allocating resources to education, and are democratically accountable for this. While we accept this position, we believe that given Welsh Government's overall responsibility for education, they must be able to satisfy themselves that local authorities are sufficiently prioritising education.
Recommendation 5 of the report, therefore, calls on the Welsh Government monitor this spend more closely, to assure itself that sufficient funding is being provided to enable schools to effectively deliver what is required of them: high-quality education, and also to improve and deliver on the reform agenda. While the Minister has accepted this recommendation, the detail in her response does not provide any indication of how the Welsh Government will undertake the greater monitoring role we called for. We will therefore be seeking further clarification from the Minister on this issue.
In the evidence we received, there was confusion about the purpose of indictor-based assessments within the local government settlement. The clear position of the Welsh Local Government Association and the Association of Directors of Education in Wales was that IBAs have limited influence on how much is spent on education. However, the headteachers' unions argued that there's little point establishing IBAs if local authorities do not take account of them. While we accept that funding for local government is unhypothecated, we believe the Welsh Government must provide greater clarity on the purpose of IBAs. While they are not a prescription of how much a local authority must spend, are they not at least the Welsh Government’s estimate of how much a local authority should need to spend in order to maintain a standard level of service? That is not entirely clear from the Welsh Government’s response to recommendation 6.
Llywydd, there are many more important issues raised during the inquiry that I would like to discuss but cannot cover today. I would like to conclude by saying that I truly believe the lack of adequate funding for our schools is one of the biggest problems facing our public services. To reiterate, I very much welcome the Minister’s agreement to commission a review to identify how much money the schools system in Wales needs and look forward to further information on that.
Investment in education is the most important preventative investment that any Government can make. The time has now come for us all to work together, across parties, across both Welsh Government and local government, to ensure that our schools have the funding they need to provide the high-quality education that all our children and young people deserve. Diolch yn fawr.
Addysg dda yw un o'r blociau adeiladu pwysicaf y gall plentyn ei gael. Fodd bynnag, yn llawer rhy aml clywn am y pwysau enfawr y mae ysgolion yn ei wynebu wrth geisio rheoli eu cyllidebau lle nad yw'r cyllid a gânt yn ddigonol. Mae hyn yn amlwg yn cael effaith negyddol ar ddarpariaeth addysg, gan gynnwys ysgolion yn gorfod cwtogi ar nifer y staff er mwyn mantoli eu cyllidebau.
Roedd cwestiynau wedi codi hefyd ynghylch lefel y tryloywder a'r amrywiad o ran dosbarthiad cyllid i ysgolion a bu dadlau ynghylch y cydbwysedd rhwng cyllid heb ei neilltuo ar gyfer llywodraeth leol a'r arian sydd wedi'i dargedu'n fwy penodol tuag at flaenoriaethau addysg Llywodraeth Cymru. Yn fwy diweddar, clywsom fod pryder cyffredinol y byddai cyllidebau annigonol i ysgolion yn llesteirio'r gwaith o gyflawni agenda diwygio addysg Llywodraeth Cymru.
Mae lefel enfawr a digynsail o ddiwygio'n digwydd ym maes addysg. Mae gennym gwricwlwm newydd radical ar gyfer Cymru, Deddf anghenion dysgu ychwanegol bwysig newydd, cyflwyno dull ysgol gyfan o ymdrin ag iechyd meddwl a diwygiadau pellgyrhaeddol i ddysgu proffesiynol yn sail i'r cyfan. Ni allwn ddisgwyl i'r diwygiadau pwysig hyn lwyddo heb gyllid digonol.
Yng ngoleuni hyn, cytunodd y pwyllgor i gynnal yr ymchwiliad er mwyn edrych yn benodol ar ddigonolrwydd cyllid ysgolion yng Nghymru a'r ffordd y caiff cyllidebau ysgolion eu pennu a'u dyrannu. Wrth fwrw ymlaen â'r ymchwiliad, clywsom dystiolaeth gan amrywiaeth eang o randdeiliaid ar draws y sector. Aethom ati hefyd i gynnal astudiaethau achos manwl gyda thair ysgol, lle cyfarfuom â phobl ar bob lefel—disgyblion a rhieni, athrawon ac arweinwyr ysgol, awdurdodau lleol a llywodraethwyr ysgol. Roedd yr hyn a glywsom yn y tair ysgol yn ddidostur iawn, ac ar brydiau, yn frawychus. Roedd gweld effaith cyfyngiadau cyllidebol ar y rhai ar y rheng flaen yn uniongyrchol yn dangos pa mor bwysig yw hi i fynd i'r afael â'r sefyllfa hon. Hoffwn ddiolch i bawb a roddodd o'u hamser i gyfarfod â ni yn ystod yr astudiaethau achos, ac am eu barn onest am y problemau a wynebir.
Gwnaeth y pwyllgor gyfanswm o 21 o argymhellion, yn cwmpasu ystod eang o faterion. Yn yr amser sydd ar gael heddiw, ni allaf ymdrin â'n holl argymhellion. Fodd bynnag, fe amlinellaf rai o'r prif bryderon a godwyd. Rydym yn falch bod y Gweinidog Addysg wedi derbyn yr holl argymhellion yn ein hadroddiad a'r croeso cyffredinol y mae wedi'i roi i waith y pwyllgor yn y maes allweddol hwn. Mae'n peri pryder, serch hynny, nad yw ymateb y Gweinidog yn cynnwys manylion clir ynglŷn â sut y gweithredir nifer o'r argymhellion. Ac rwy'n gobeithio y bydd y Gweinidog yn gallu ymhelaethu ar ei hymateb yn ystod y ddadl heddiw ar nifer o'r argymhellion allweddol hynny.
Wrth amlinellu canfyddiadau'r ymchwiliad, hoffwn ddechrau gyda'r casgliad mwyaf pryderus y daethom iddo fel pwyllgor, a lle roedd y dystiolaeth a gafwyd yn ysgubol. Yn syml iawn, nid oes digon o arian yn mynd i mewn i'r system addysg yng Nghymru ac nid oes digon yn cyrraedd yr ysgolion. Gwelsom hyn yn uniongyrchol yn ystod ein hymweliadau ag ysgolion. Fel rydym wedi'i amlinellu yn yr adroddiad, casgliad syml yw hwn nad oes iddo ateb syml, gwaetha'r modd. Mae'r system ar gyfer ariannu ysgolion yn hynod gymhleth, yn amlhaenog ac yn ddibynnol ar lawer o ffactorau, nid yn lleiaf wrth gwrs y swm o arian sydd ar gael i Lywodraeth Cymru o San Steffan. Rhaid cydnabod hefyd fod y cyfrifoldeb am ddarparu cyllid digonol ar gyfer ein hysgolion yn torri ar draws portffolios Gweinidogion. O ystyried cymhlethdod y fformiwlâu ariannu, rhaid i Weinidogion ar draws Llywodraeth Cymru weithio gyda'i gilydd i sicrhau bod ysgolion yn cael yr arian sydd ei angen arnynt.
Mae cyllid ychwanegol ar gyfer addysg yn hanfodol—a dychwelaf at y pwynt hwn yn fuan—ond er y byddai wedi bod yn hawdd argymell cyllid ychwanegol, credwn nad cynyddu lefel y cyllid yn unig yw'r ateb. Hefyd, rhaid defnyddio'r cyllid yn effeithiol ac yn y mannau cywir. Er mwyn deall y problemau y mae ein hysgolion yn eu hwynebu yn llawn, mae'n hanfodol inni wybod yn gyntaf beth yw graddau'r bwlch cyllido sy'n wynebu'r system addysg yng Nghymru, yn enwedig ar yr adeg hon o ddiwygio sylweddol. Mae angen inni ddeall faint y mae'n costio i redeg ysgol ac addysgu plentyn, fel isafswm sylfaenol, cyn ystyried yr holl ffactorau angenrheidiol megis amddifadedd a theneurwydd poblogaeth, yn ogystal â'r agenda ddiwygio enfawr.
Mae argymhelliad 1 yn ein hadroddiad yn galw'n glir felly ar Lywodraeth Cymru i gynnal adolygiad brys i sefydlu hyn. Mae ymateb y Gweinidog wedi bod yn gadarnhaol iawn, gan gadarnhau bod Llywodraeth Cymru a llywodraeth leol eisoes wedi dechrau ar y gwaith o ystyried cwmpas yr adolygiad. Edrychaf ymlaen at gael y wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am gamau gweithredu gan y Gweinidog maes o law. A gaf fi ddweud er hynny, beth bynnag fydd canlyniad yr ymchwiliad hwnnw, na ellir ei roi yn y blwch 'rhy anodd', fel sydd wedi digwydd gydag adolygiadau blaenorol ar ariannu ysgolion, megis adolygiad Bramley yn 2007 a'r blynyddoedd dilynol?
I ddychwelyd at fater cyllid ychwanegol, rwy'n siŵr bod yr Aelodau'n ymwybodol fod cyhoeddiadau diweddar am gyllid ar gyfer addysg yn Lloegr wedi arwain at swm canlyniadol o bron £200 miliwn i Gymru. O ystyried bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi derbyn holl argymhellion adroddiad y pwyllgor, buaswn yn gobeithio y bydd y rhan fwyaf, os nad y cyfan, o hwn yn cael ei glustnodi ar gyfer addysg yng Nghymru.
Fel y nodir yn ein hadroddiad, nid yw'r problemau a wynebir yn ymwneud yn unig â lefel y cyllid i ysgolion, maent yn ymwneud hefyd â'r ffordd y mae'n gwneud ei ffordd i reng flaen yr ysgol a'r modd y'i defnyddir. Mae hyn yn amlwg yn dibynnu ar nifer o ffactorau, gan gynnwys blaenoriaethu'r gyllideb ar lefel Llywodraeth Cymru, sut y caiff adnoddau ar gyfer llywodraeth leol eu rhannu rhwng awdurdodau, a yw awdurdodau lleol yn blaenoriaethu ysgolion o fewn eu proses gyllidebu eu hunain, i ba raddau y maent yn dirprwyo cyllid i'r ysgolion eu hunain, a sut y maent yn dosbarthu'r cyllid hwnnw rhwng ysgolion.
O ystyried cymhlethdod y system, roeddem yn pryderu wrth glywed nad yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn monitro lefel y flaenoriaeth y mae awdurdodau lleol yn ei rhoi i ysgolion wrth ddosbarthu eu cyllid. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi bod yn glir iawn drwy gydol yr ymchwiliad mai awdurdodau lleol sy'n gyfrifol am ddyrannu adnoddau i addysg, ac maent yn atebol yn ddemocrataidd am hyn. Er ein bod yn derbyn y safbwynt hwn, o ystyried cyfrifoldeb cyffredinol Llywodraeth Cymru dros addysg, credwn fod rhaid iddi allu bodloni ei hun fod awdurdodau lleol yn rhoi digon o flaenoriaeth i addysg.
Mae argymhelliad 5 yr adroddiad, felly, yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i fonitro'r gwariant hwn yn fwy manwl, er mwyn sicrhau ei hun fod digon o arian yn cael ei ddarparu i alluogi ysgolion i gyflawni'n effeithiol yr hyn sy'n ofynnol ganddynt: addysg o ansawdd uchel, yn ogystal â gwella a chyflawni'r agenda ddiwygio. Er bod y Gweinidog wedi derbyn yr argymhelliad hwn, nid yw'r manylion yn ei hymateb yn rhoi unrhyw arwydd o sut y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn cyflawni'r rôl fonitro ehangach y galwasom amdani. Felly, byddwn yn gofyn am eglurhad pellach gan y Gweinidog ar y mater hwn.
Yn y dystiolaeth a gawsom, roedd dryswch ynglŷn â diben asesiadau wedi'u seilio ar ddangosyddion o fewn y setliad llywodraeth leol. Safbwynt clir Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru a Chymdeithas Cyfarwyddwyr Addysg Cymru oedd nad oes gan asesiadau wedi'u seilio ar ddangosyddion fawr o ddylanwad ar faint a werir ar addysg. Fodd bynnag, dadleuodd undebau'r prifathrawon nad oes fawr o bwynt sefydlu asesiadau wedi'u seilio ar ddangosyddion os nad yw awdurdodau lleol yn eu hystyried. Er ein bod yn derbyn nad yw cyllid ar gyfer Llywodraeth Leol wedi'i glustnodi, credwn fod yn rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru ddarparu mwy o eglurder ynglŷn â diben asesiadau wedi'u seilio ar ddangosyddion. Er nad ydynt yn rhagnodi faint sy'n rhaid i awdurdod lleol ei wario, onid ydynt o leiaf cymaint ag amcangyfrif Llywodraeth Cymru o faint y dylai fod angen i awdurdod lleol ei wario er mwyn cynnal lefel safonol o wasanaeth? Nid yw hynny'n gwbl glir o ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru i argymhelliad 6.
Lywydd, codwyd llawer o faterion eraill pwysig yn ystod yr ymchwiliad yr hoffwn eu trafod ond ni allaf ymdrin â hwy heddiw. Hoffwn gloi drwy ddweud fy mod yn credu'n wirioneddol mai diffyg cyllid digonol i'n hysgolion yw un o'r problemau mwyaf sy'n wynebu ein gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. I ailadrodd, rwy'n falch iawn fod y Gweinidog wedi cytuno i gomisiynu adolygiad i nodi faint o arian y mae'r system ysgolion yng Nghymru ei angen ac edrychaf ymlaen at wybodaeth bellach am hynny.
Buddsoddi mewn addysg yw'r buddsoddiad ataliol pwysicaf y gall unrhyw Lywodraeth ei wneud. Daeth yn bryd i bawb ohonom weithio gyda'n gilydd, ar draws y pleidiau, ar draws Llywodraeth Cymru a llywodraeth leol, i sicrhau bod ein hysgolion yn cael yr arian sydd ei angen arnynt i ddarparu'r addysg o safon uchel y mae ein holl blant a'n pobl ifanc yn ei haeddu. Diolch yn fawr.
Can I thank you, Lynne? I don't think Welsh Government should have been particularly surprised at the content of this report. Per-pupil funding for schools has been historically poor compared to the rest of the UK, and the chickens have finally come home to roost. Teachers, school leaders, unions like the NAHT and council leaders have been genuinely fearful about the vulnerability of schools to crumbling finances, and I thank them all for coming before the committee to give us their evidence. And as well as their worries about the overall amount available to schools, teachers and school leaders have been extremely alert to that visible disparity between councils and the invisibility of why those disparities are there.
Despite the long-standing pupil funding gap, Welsh Conservatives signed up to this report because we thought there was an issue regarding UK Government funding. Even though we could have pushed the obvious point of the Welsh Government choosing how it prioritises its spending, and the extra money per head provided by the funding floor, some of these concerns are UK-wide, so fixing the problem had to lie partly with London. But London has responded. As a result of the shrinking national deficit, the UK Government has committed £7.1 billion to schools over the next three years. The Institute for Fiscal Studies says that this will restore the value of the pot of money for schools to where it was before the effects of the financial crash bit. This means about £355 million extra coming to Wales from the UK schools budget—and that is the schools budget, not the education budget—over the next three years. The Minister now has the clarity to allow for multi-year commitment, as she asked for in accepting recommendation 15.
The £195 million for Wales coming from the UK schools budget for 2020-1 as a result of this year's spending review—we heard from the Trefnydd a couple of weeks ago that the decision has not been made on how that money is going to be spent. I hope we find out that that's allocated soon, because in the last three years the pupil funding gap between Wales and England has noticeably narrowed—the NASUWT says it's £645; Welsh Government says not. But narrowed it has, because the number of pupils in England has grown considerably over the last few years and funding there has not caught up. In Wales we've had only 29 extra pupils in that 10 years, but the long-standing funding gap—and let's remember it's been as much as £800—is still there, despite the funding floor.
The gap has been the result of long-term budget decisions made by Welsh Government, not the UK Government. It predates and arises from different reasons from those affecting schools in England, and unlike Welsh Government, the UK Government has acted relatively swiftly, reversing the real-term cuts that have affected the value of that school funding pie. So, the question now is, now that this extra money is coming on-stream, whether we see the per-pupil funding gap open up again. Because if it does, it will be completely clear that this is a choice made in Cardiff Bay, not one in London.
A gaf fi ddiolch i chi, Lynne? Nid wyf yn credu y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru fod wedi synnu'n arbennig at gynnwys yr adroddiad hwn. Mae'r cyllid fesul disgybl ar gyfer ysgolion wedi bod yn wael yn hanesyddol o'i gymharu â gweddill y DU, ac mae'r canlyniadau i'w gweld bellach. Mae athrawon, arweinwyr ysgolion, undebau fel Cymdeithas Genedlaethol y Prifathrawon ac arweinwyr cynghorau wedi bod yn wirioneddol ofnus ynglŷn â pha mor agored yw ysgolion i gwtogi ariannol, a diolch i bob un ohonynt am ddod gerbron y pwyllgor i roi eu tystiolaeth. Ac yn ogystal â'u pryderon am y swm cyffredinol sydd ar gael i ysgolion, mae athrawon ac arweinwyr ysgolion wedi bod yn effro iawn i'r gwahaniaeth gweladwy rhwng cynghorau a pha mor annelwig yw'r rhesymau pam y mae'r gwahaniaethau hynny'n bodoli.
Er gwaethaf y bwlch ariannu hirsefydlog rhwng disgyblion, ymrwymodd y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig i'r adroddiad hwn oherwydd ein bod yn credu bod problem mewn perthynas â chyllid Llywodraeth y DU. Er y gallem fod wedi gwthio'r pwynt amlwg fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn dewis sut y mae'n blaenoriaethu ei gwariant, a'r arian ychwanegol y pen a ddarperir gan y cyllid gwaelodol, mae rhai o'r pryderon hyn yn rhai i'r DU gyfan, felly roedd yn rhaid bod Llundain yn rhannol gyfrifol am ddatrys y broblem. Ond mae Llundain wedi ymateb. O ganlyniad i'r diffyg cenedlaethol sy'n lleihau, mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi ymrwymo £7.1 biliwn i ysgolion dros y tair blynedd nesaf. Dywed y Sefydliad Astudiaethau Cyllid y bydd hyn yn adfer gwerth y pot o arian i ysgolion i lle roedd cyn i effeithiau'r cwymp ariannol ddechrau gadael eu hôl. Mae hyn yn golygu bod tua £355 miliwn yn ychwanegol yn dod i Gymru o gyllideb ysgolion y DU—a'r gyllideb ysgolion yw honno, nid y gyllideb addysg—dros y tair blynedd nesaf. Mae gan y Gweinidog yr eglurder yn awr i ganiatáu ar gyfer ymrwymiad amlflwyddyn, fel y gofynnodd amdano wrth dderbyn argymhelliad 15.
Y £195 miliwn sy'n dod i Gymru o gyllideb ysgolion y DU ar gyfer 2020-1 o ganlyniad i'r adolygiad o wariant eleni—clywsom gan y Trefnydd ychydig wythnosau'n ôl nad yw'r penderfyniad wedi'i wneud ynglŷn â sut y gwerir yr arian hwnnw. Rwy'n gobeithio y cawn wybod ei fod wedi'i ddyrannu'n fuan, oherwydd yn y tair blynedd diwethaf mae'r bwlch ariannu disgyblion rhwng Cymru a Lloegr wedi culhau'n amlwg—dywed Cymdeithas Genedlaethol yr Ysgolfeistri ac Undeb yr Athrawesau ei fod yn £645; mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn dweud fel arall. Ond mae wedi culhau, oherwydd mae nifer y disgyblion yn Lloegr wedi tyfu'n sylweddol dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf ac nid yw cyllid yno wedi dal i fyny. Yng Nghymru, dim ond 29 o ddisgyblion ychwanegol a gawsom yn ystod y 10 mlynedd, ond mae'r bwlch cyllido hirsefydlog—a gadewch i ni gofio ei fod wedi bod cymaint ag £800—yn dal i fod yno, er gwaethaf y cyllid gwaelodol.
Mae'r bwlch wedi deillio o benderfyniadau cyllidebol hirdymor a wnaed gan Lywodraeth Cymru, nid Llywodraeth y DU. Mae'n rhagflaenu ac yn codi o resymau gwahanol i'r rhai sy'n effeithio ar ysgolion yn Lloegr, ac yn wahanol i Lywodraeth Cymru, mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi gweithredu'n gymharol gyflym, gan wrthdroi'r toriadau mewn termau real sydd wedi effeithio ar werth y gacen ariannu ysgolion honno. Felly, gan fod yr arian ychwanegol hwn yn dod bellach, y cwestiwn yn awr yw a welwn y bwlch cyllid y pen i ddisgyblion yn agor eto. Oherwydd os gwnaiff, bydd yn gwbl glir mai dewis a wneir ym Mae Caerdydd ydyw, nid un yn Llundain.
Would you take an intervention?
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?
Very quickly. I might move on to answer your question, actually.
Yn gyflym iawn. Efallai y byddaf yn symud ymlaen i ateb eich cwestiwn a dweud y gwir.
I have to say, it really isn't like you, Suzy Davies, to take this kind of central office-brief approach. You were part of the committee, and it's a constructive report. It isn't intended to be in the way you are presenting it, as dividing between UK and Cardiff Bay. Please can you be more constructive and reflect the views of the committee?
Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud, rwy'n synnu eich bod chi, Suzy Davies, yn mabwysiadu ymagwedd 'swyddfa ganolog' o'r fath. Roeddech yn rhan o'r pwyllgor, ac mae'n adroddiad adeiladol. Nid yw wedi'i fwriadu i fod yn y ffordd rydych chi'n ei gyflwyno, fel rhaniad rhwng y DU a Bae Caerdydd. A fyddech cystal â bod yn fwy adeiladol ac adlewyrchu barn y pwyllgor?
Let me carry on, because, of course, as Lynne Neagle mentioned in her opening remarks, Westminster was mentioned in this, and I think it is worth us noting that Westminster has now responded to concerns that have only been made apparent to them in the last four or five years. Welsh Government has not responded to the per-pupil funding gap that's been presented to them since I've been here and before. So, what I want to say is that, even if Welsh Government commits the entire £355 million to schools—not education, schools—then we hit, as the committee report says, the local government funding fog, and this is what I want to concentrate on now. Because, in some ways, I really wish that the local government Minister was here responding to this debate, because I think it's at local government level that the urgent action is necessary.
Now, I accept that there are wider pressures on the revenue support grant, but what this report has exposed is what looks like the arbitrariness of how schools are funded. The huge disparity in reserves and deficits between schools is evidence of something going badly wrong. There is no consistency between local authorities on how they prioritise core spending on schools and no line of accountability to Welsh Government connecting its decisions on how much schools need, its consequent contribution to the RSG, and how much councils actually spend on schools.
I find myself asking whether local authorities should be entirely free to use money found by Government to address a particular, identified problem on something else altogether. Spending, as Lynne Neagle said, on good school experience is the epitome of preventative spend and, therefore, sufficient school funding should axiomatically be a priority for every single council. But, as Government admits, it will not influence the prioritisation, despite accepting recommendation 2.
Both Ministers, in evidence to us, reached for the importance of professional trust between Government and councils for their decisions. But what about the professional trust between school staff and councils, and schools and Government? Even in accepting all our recommendations, the Minister has avoided answering some of those questions actually captured in recommendations. There is an uncomfortable question about who she trusts most to deliver her aspirations for school age, because it seems to me that she is happy to trust school leaders with the huge responsibility of designing a new curriculum, but, when it comes to financing the school in which to deliver it, that's for someone else and it’s not clear to me who, yet it will be school leaders who'll carry the can if the curriculum fails due to lack of money for schools.
Your legacy, Minister, will depend on you solving the school funding problem set out so starkly in our report. I really hope this report helps you, and the local government Minister, get the money that you need for schools. Thank you.
Gadewch i mi barhau, oherwydd, wrth gwrs, fel y crybwyllodd Lynne Neagle yn ei sylwadau agoriadol, cyfeiriwyd at San Steffan yn hyn, a chredaf ei bod yn werth inni nodi bod San Steffan bellach wedi ymateb i bryderon a wnaed yn amlwg iddynt yn ystod y pedair neu bum mlynedd diwethaf yn unig. Nid yw Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ymateb i'r bwlch ariannu fesul disgybl a amlygwyd iddynt ers i mi fod yma a chyn hynny. Felly, yr hyn rwyf am ei ddweud yw, hyd yn oed os yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn ymrwymo'r £355 miliwn cyfan i ysgolion—nid i addysg, i ysgolion—yna, fel y dywed adroddiad y pwyllgor, rydym yn taro 'niwl cyllido' llywodraeth leol, a dyma rwyf am ganolbwyntio arno yn awr. Oherwydd, mewn rhai ffyrdd, hoffwn yn fawr pe bai'r Gweinidog llywodraeth leol yma i ymateb i'r ddadl hon, oherwydd credaf mai ar lefel llywodraeth leol y mae angen gweithredu ar frys.
Nawr, rwy'n derbyn bod pwysau ehangach ar y grant cynnal refeniw, ond mae'r adroddiad hwn wedi amlygu'r hyn sy'n edrych fel mympwy o ran sut y cyllidir ysgolion. Mae'r gwahaniaeth enfawr yng nghronfeydd wrth gefn a diffyg ysgolion yn dangos bod rhywbeth yn mynd o'i le'n wael. Nid oes unrhyw gysondeb rhwng awdurdodau lleol o ran y modd y maent yn blaenoriaethu gwariant craidd ar ysgolion a dim llinell atebolrwydd i Lywodraeth Cymru sy'n cysylltu ei phenderfyniadau ar faint y mae ysgolion ei angen, ei chyfraniad o ganlyniad i hynny i'r grant cynnal refeniw, a faint y mae cynghorau'n ei wario ar ysgolion mewn gwirionedd.
Rhaid i mi ofyn a ddylai awdurdodau lleol fod yn gwbl rydd i ddefnyddio arian a ganfuwyd gan y Llywodraeth i fynd i'r afael â phroblem benodol a nodwyd ar rywbeth arall yn gyfan gwbl. Fel y dywedodd Lynne Neagle, mae gwariant ar brofiad ysgol da yn ymgorfforiad o wariant ataliol ac felly, dylai digon o gyllid i ysgolion fod yn flaenoriaeth i bob cyngor. Ond fel y mae'r Llywodraeth yn cyfaddef, ni fydd yn dylanwadu ar y blaenoriaethu, er ei bod yn derbyn argymhelliad 2.
Mewn tystiolaeth i ni, soniodd y ddau Weinidog am bwysigrwydd ymddiriedaeth broffesiynol rhwng Llywodraeth a chynghorau o ran eu penderfyniadau. Ond beth am yr ymddiriedaeth broffesiynol rhwng staff ysgolion a chynghorau, ac ysgolion a'r Llywodraeth? Hyd yn oed wrth dderbyn ein holl argymhellion, mae'r Gweinidog wedi osgoi ateb rhai o'r cwestiynau a gafwyd yn yr argymhellion. Ceir cwestiwn anghysurus ynglŷn â phwy y mae'n ymddiried ynddynt fwyaf i gyflawni ei dyheadau ar gyfer rhai oedran ysgol, gan ei bod yn ymddangos i mi ei bod yn fwy na pharod i ymddiried mewn arweinwyr ysgolion sydd â chyfrifoldeb enfawr am gynllunio cwricwlwm newydd, ond pan ddaw'n fater o ariannu'r ysgol er mwyn ei gyflwyno, mae hynny'n rhywbeth i rywun arall ac nid yw'n glir i mi pwy, eto i gyd arweinwyr ysgolion fydd yn atebol os bydd y cwricwlwm yn methu oherwydd diffyg arian i ysgolion.
Bydd eich gwaddol, Weinidog, yn dibynnu ar y modd y byddwch yn datrys y broblem ariannu ysgolion a nodir mor glir yn ein hadroddiad. Rwy'n mawr obeithio y bydd yr adroddiad hwn yn eich helpu chi, a'r Gweinidog llywodraeth leol, i gael yr arian sydd ei angen arnoch ar gyfer ysgolion. Diolch.
Mi oeddwn i'n falch iawn o fod yn rhan o'r ymchwiliad pwysig yma, ac mae yna argymhellion pwysig iawn yn cael eu cyflwyno yn yr adroddiad. Mi ddylai hi fod yn gyfnod cyffrous ar gyfer addysg yn ein hysgolion yng Nghymru. Mae cyflwyno cwricwlwm newydd sy'n parchu doniau ein hathrawon yn gysyniad y mae Plaid Cymru wedi'i gefnogi ar hyd y blynyddoedd.
Ond, yn anffodus, os nad ydy'r newid anferth yma'n cael ei gefnogi gan gyllid ac adnoddau digonol, mae perig gwirioneddol inni golli'r cyfle euraidd yma, ac y bydd cyflwyno'r cwricwlwm newydd ar y gorau yn anghyson ar draws Cymru ac ar y gwaethaf yn llanast llwyr. Yng nghanol hyn oll, ein plant a'n pobl ifanc fydd yn dioddef.
Mae'r papur a gyhoeddwyd yr wythnos hon, o'r enw 'Addysg Addas ar gyfer y Dyfodol yng Nghymru', yn tynnu sylw at yr union broblem yma, gan ddweud am y gofid am y lefel o adnoddau fydd ar gael i athrawon ddatblygu a darparu'r cwricwlwm newydd, ac mae prin yw'r arwyddion fod chwistrelliad sylweddol o adnoddau yn mynd i ddigwydd ar lefel ysgolion ac ar draws y system cyn y lansiad yn 2022.
Mae undeb yr NAHT yn dyfynnu ffigurau cyfrifiad ysgolion o Ionawr eleni o'u cymharu â'r flwyddyn flaenorol er mwyn darlunio'r broblem fel mae hi ar hyn o bryd, a dwi yn meddwl ei bod hi'n bwysig i ni ddarlunio'r argyfwng sydd angen ei sortio allan.
Felly, ddechrau eleni, roedd 1,286 yn fwy o ddisgyblion, ond 278 yn llai o athrawon a 533 yn llai o staff cymorth. Felly, o'r ffigurau yna, mae'n dod yn hollol amlwg fod y toriadau cyllidol sy'n cael eu disgrifio'n fanwl yn yr adroddiad—fod y toriadau yma'n golygu nad oes yna ddim athrawon yn cael eu penodi i lawer iawn o'r swyddi sy'n dod yn wag, fod toriadau yn golygu bod llai o athrawon yn gweithio'n llawn amser a mwy'n gweithio'n rhan amser, ac mai'r staff cymorth ydy'r cyntaf i gael eu taro drwy golli eu swyddi, gweithio llai o oriau neu wrth i ysgolion fethu adnewyddu cytundebau penodol.
Meddai un pennaeth ysgol gynradd wrthyf i, 'Rydym ni ar ein gliniau'. Mae hyn yn bryder gwirioneddol, ac mae camau wedi cael eu cymryd gan Lywodraeth Cymru i leihau baich gwaith athrawon, ond mae'r diffyg mewn cyllidebau ysgolion yn ychwanegu at lwyth gwaith, ac mae hyn oll, wrth gwrs, yn cael effaith gwbl andwyol ar addysg ein plant a'n pobl ifanc ni.
Felly, dwi'n croesawu argymhelliad 2 y pwyllgor yn fwy na'r lleill—mae'r lleill yn bwysig, ond argymhelliad 2, yn fy marn i, yw'r un sydd yn mynd i gyflwyno'r newid mwyaf sydd ei angen. Mi fyddai gweithredu argymhelliad 2 yn golygu y byddai yna feintiau dosbarth rhesymol er mwyn sicrhau y gall athrawon roi sylw priodol a digonol i bob plentyn. Mi fyddai fo'n golygu niferoedd digonol o staff cymorth dysgu a digon o gapasiti yn y system anghenion dysgu ychwanegol ar bob lefel i adnabod problemau mor gynnar â phosib, a sicrhau cefnogaeth gref i faterion lles ac iechyd meddwl ledled y system addysg.
Er fy mod i yn croesawu argymhelliad 1 am yr adolygiad, dwi yn meddwl ei bod hi'n bwysig peidio â disgwyl am ganlyniadau'r adolygiad. Mi fyddai disgwyl am hynny yn gallu arafu'r broses, ac mae angen i arian lifo i mewn i'n hysgolion ni rŵan. Mae'n bwysig, efo'r adolygiad, i fod yn glir am y tybiaethau cychwynnol hefyd, a sicrhau bod yna ystod o fodelau ysgol a modelau cost yn cael eu cymryd i ystyriaeth. Er enghraifft, mae yna wahaniaethau, onid oes, mewn modelau cost ysgolion mawr o'i gymharu efo ysgolion bach, gwledig/trefol, ac yn y blaen, ac yn y blaen.
Mae yna nifer o argymhellion synhwyrol yn yr adroddiad ynglŷn â gwahanol agweddau. Dwi'n credu bod argymhelliad 15 yn un i dynnu sylw ato fo ac yn fater o flaenoriaeth uchel, sef creu setliadau cyllido tair blynedd. Rŵan, dwi'n gwybod bod yna anawsterau yn sgil dibynnu ar amserlenni San Steffan, ond mae'n rhaid, dwi'n credu, dod o hyd i ffordd o wneud hyn. Mae yna grŵp arall o argymhellion yn ymwneud â'r haen ganol, a dwi yn edrych ymlaen at weld gwaith yr Athro Dylan Jones. Mae yna broblem fan hyn. Mae yna ddiffyg ymddiriedaeth rhwng ysgolion a'r consortia rhanbarthol, a theimlad cryf fod yna symiau mawr yn cael eu gwario ar y lefel yna.
Beth sydd yn bwysig, dwi'n credu, ydy cydnabod beth sydd yn argymhelliad 2. Pe baem ni'n gwneud hynny, mi fuasai'r drafodaeth yn gallu symud yn eu blaen, a dwi'n credu bod angen inni droi rŵan, fel roedd Cadeirydd y pwyllgor yn ei ddweud. Mae angen y drafodaeth aeddfed honno ar draws y Siambr, ar draws y dyletswyddau, i feddwl yn wahanol am gyllideb Cymru, ac i feddwl am gyllideb Cymru mewn termau ataliol.
I was very pleased to be part of this important inquiry, and there are important recommendations that are being presented in this report. It should be an exciting period for education in our schools in Wales. The introduction of a new curriculum that respects the skills of our teachers is a concept that Plaid Cymru has supported across the years.
But, unfortunately, if this huge change is not supported by funding and sufficient resources, there’s a genuine risk that we will lose this golden opportunity, and the introduction of the new curriculum will be inconsistent at best around Wales and, at worst, will be a complete disaster. Amid this, our children and young people will suffer.
The paper that was published this week, called ‘Fit for the Future Education in Wales’, draws attention to this exact problem, noting the concern about the level of resources available to teachers to develop and to provide the new curriculum, and that there are few signs that a significant injection of funding is going to happen at a school level and across the system before the launch in 2022.
The NAHT quotes figures from schools this year, compared with the previous year, in order to outline the problem as it exists at present. I do think it’s important for us to outline the crisis that needs to be sorted.
So, starting this year, there were 1,286 more pupils, but 278 fewer teachers and 533 fewer support staff. So, from those figures, it is obvious that the budget cuts that are described in detail in the report mean that there are no teachers appointed to many of the vacant posts and that cuts mean that fewer teachers work full time and more are working part time, and that the support staff are the first to be hit by losing their jobs, working fewer hours or by schools failing to renew their specific contracts.
One primary head told us, ‘We’re on our knees’. This is a genuine concern, and steps have been taken by the Welsh Government to reduce the burden on teachers, but a lack of funding in schools is adding to the workload and, of course, this is having a detrimental impact on the education of our children and young people.
So, I welcome recommendation 2 by the committee more than the others—the others are important, but recommendation 2, in my opinion, is the one that’s going to bring the greatest change that is needed. The implementation of recommendation 2 would mean that there would be reasonable class sizes to ensure that teachers could give adequate attention to every child. It would mean sufficient numbers of support staff and enough capacity in the additional learning needs staffing to identify problems as early as possible, and would give greater support to mental health problems across the education system.
Even though I do welcome recommendation 1 on the review, I do think it’s important that we shouldn’t wait for that, as that would decelerate the process and the funding needs to flow into our schools now. It’s important for the review to be clear about the initial assumptions and to ensure that there is a range of models in terms of schools and costs taken into consideration. For example, there are differences between the cost models for big schools and small schools, and rural and urban schools, and so on and so forth.
There are a number of sensible recommendations in the report about the different aspects of this, and I do think that recommendation 15 is one to draw attention to and is a high priority, namely the creation of three-year funding settlements. Now, I know that there are difficulties in terms of depending on Westminster timetables, but I do think we need to find a way of doing this. There is another group of recommendations involving the middle tier, and I’m looking forward to seeing the work of Professor Dylan Jones. And there is a problem here. There is a lack of trust between schools and the regional consortia, and a strong feeling that there are great sums being spent on that level, or that tier.
What is important, I think, is recognising what’s in recommendation 2. If we do that, then the discussion could move forward. And I do believe that we need to turn, as the committee Chair said. We need a mature discussion across the Chamber, across the ministerial responsibilities, to think differently about the Welsh budget and to think about the Welsh budget in a preventative way.
Can I start by thanking those who participated in the inquiry, and thank the Welsh Government for its very positive response to the committee's recommendations? Inevitably, I think we will probably all be covering a number of the same areas, so please bear with me. But, for me, this inquiry clearly showed that the issue of school funding is not as straightforward as some would like to suggest. So, even if we start from the premise that we all accept that schools need more money, and we all do, there's certainly no straightforward answer to the question of how much do schools actually need, how much should that be. As the Minister said in her response, this is hugely complex and multi-layered, and is dependent on many factors.
I think therefore that recommendation 1, which Siân has just referred to, of the report is very much framed to provide the evidence to help us answer that question and to provide a firmer basis for the discussion about school education and its funding in Wales. It's what we did around the NHS funding through the Nuffield report, and I think a similar study for education can only be helpful.
During the inquiry, I felt there was considerable misunderstanding about education and schools, actually, the school system in Wales, or at least I felt that there were people that were using the system to present layers of mystery based on complexity. That included arguments over gross expenditure, per pupil expenditure, the purpose of indicator-based assessments. And some of those debates are very technical, and we heard conflicting arguments as to the importance of the data that was represented. So, I do welcome the agreement of Welsh Government to try to provide a clearer understanding and a greater consistency in the statistical gathering and reporting.
Now, as we all know, there are at least four levels of financial decisions in the system. We start with the UK funding to Wales. I do have to support my colleague Hefin David here in challenging what Suzy Davies said, because this is set against a backdrop of a decade of Tory austerity. So, for every Welsh Conservative voice in this debate asking for more money for schools, reflect on the manifestos that you stood on—
A gaf fi ddechrau drwy ddiolch i'r rhai a gymerodd ran yn yr ymchwiliad, a diolch i Lywodraeth Cymru am ei hymateb cadarnhaol iawn i argymhellion y pwyllgor? Yn anochel, rwy'n credu y byddwn i gyd, mae'n debyg, yn trafod nifer o'r un meysydd, felly byddwch yn amyneddgar. Ond i mi, roedd yr ymchwiliad hwn yn dangos yn glir nad yw ariannu ysgolion mor syml ag yr hoffai rhai ei awgrymu. Felly, hyd yn oed os dechreuwn o'r cynsail ein bod i gyd yn derbyn bod ysgolion angen mwy o arian, ac rydym i gyd yn derbyn hynny, yn sicr nid oes ateb syml i'r cwestiwn faint sydd ei angen ar ysgolion mewn gwirionedd, faint ddylai hynny fod. Fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog yn ei hymateb, mae hyn yn hynod gymhleth ac amlhaenog, ac mae'n dibynnu ar lawer o ffactorau.
Credaf felly fod argymhelliad 1 y mae Siân newydd gyfeirio ato o'r adroddiad wedi'i fframio'n bendant iawn i ddarparu'r dystiolaeth i'n helpu i ateb y cwestiwn hwnnw ac i roi sail gadarnach i'r drafodaeth am addysg ysgolion a chyllid ar ei chyfer yng Nghymru. Dyna a wnaethom mewn perthynas â chyllid y GIG drwy adroddiad Nuffield, ac rwy'n credu y gall astudiaeth debyg ar gyfer addysg fod o gymorth mawr.
Yn ystod yr ymchwiliad, teimlwn fod cryn gamddealltwriaeth ynglŷn ag addysg ac ysgolion, mewn gwirionedd, y system ysgolion yng Nghymru, neu o leiaf roeddwn yn teimlo bod yna bobl a oedd yn defnyddio'r system i gyflwyno haenau o ddirgelwch yn seiliedig ar gymhlethdod. Roedd hynny'n cynnwys dadleuon ynglŷn â gwariant gros, gwariant fesul disgybl, diben asesiadau wedi'u seilio ar ddangosyddion. Ac mae rhai o'r dadleuon hynny'n dechnegol iawn, a chlywsom ddadleuon a oedd yn gwrthdaro ynglŷn â phwysigrwydd y data a gafwyd. Felly, rwy'n croesawu'r ffaith bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cytuno i geisio darparu dealltwriaeth fwy eglur a mwy o gysondeb yn y broses o gasglu ystadegau a llunio adroddiadau.
Nawr, fel y gŵyr pawb ohonom, ceir o leiaf bedair lefel o benderfyniadau ariannol yn y system. Dechreuwn gyda chyllid y DU i Gymru. Mae'n rhaid i mi gefnogi fy nghyd-Aelod Hefin David yma wrth herio'r hyn a ddywedodd Suzy Davies, oherwydd mae hyn wedi'i osod yn erbyn cefndir o ddegawd o gyni dan law'r Torïaid. Felly, i bob llais ar ran y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn y ddadl hon sy'n gofyn am fwy o arian i ysgolion, ystyriwch y maniffestos roeddech yn sefyll arnynt—
Will you take an intervention?
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?
—and the spending cuts that you have imposed on Wales. I'll take your intervention.
—a'r toriadau i wariant rydych wedi eu gorfodi ar Gymru. Fe gymeraf eich ymyriad.
I'm very grateful for you taking the intervention. The reality is that there is a combination of factors that deal with school funding, not only the cash that is coming from Westminster, which you've already heard is going up by hundreds of millions of pounds from next year, but also it's affected by the way that you carve up that cash here as a Welsh Government, and the way that you distribute that cash across Wales. Now, the reality is that, in my own constituency in north Wales, both of those local authorities have been hit by a huge squeeze on their finance as a result of increases in council funding coming to places in south Wales, such as Cardiff, Newport, Swansea, Rhondda Cynon Taf, Merthyr Tydfil and others, while at the same time cuts are being imposed in Conwy, Denbighshire, Flintshire, Gwynedd and Anglesey. Why is that the case? Unacceptable.
Rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn i chi am gymryd yr ymyriad. Y gwir amdani yw bod cyfuniad o ffactorau ynghlwm wrth ariannu ysgolion, nid yn unig yr arian sy'n dod o San Steffan, y clywsoch eisoes ei fod yn cynyddu gannoedd o filiynau o bunnoedd o'r flwyddyn nesaf, ond hefyd effeithir arno gan y ffordd y rhannwch yr arian hwnnw yma fel Llywodraeth Cymru, a'r modd y dosbarthwch yr arian hwnnw ledled Cymru. Nawr, yn fy etholaeth i yng ngogledd Cymru, y realiti yw bod y ddau awdurdod lleol wedi cael eu taro gan wasgfa enfawr ar eu cyllid o ganlyniad i'r cynnydd yn y cyllid i'r cynghorau sy'n dod i leoedd yn ne Cymru, megis Caerdydd, Casnewydd, Abertawe, Rhondda Cynon Taf, Merthyr Tudful ac eraill, ar yr un pryd ag y gwneir toriadau yng Nghonwy, Sir Ddinbych, Sir y Fflint, Gwynedd ac Ynys Môn. Pam y mae hynny'n digwydd? Mae'n annerbyniol.
That is not true.
Nid yw hynny'n wir.
Absolutely true.
Mae'n berffaith wir.
Well, I assume Llywydd will give me some extra time now in my contribution because I'm sick to death of standing in this Chamber week after week hearing the Tories call for more spending on all our public services when you have presided over 10 years of austerity. We will take no lessons from the Conservatives on spending.
Secondly, Welsh Government budget decisions, which I'm now going to come on to, including the allocation to local authorities and the funding directed to delivering national education priorities. Thirdly, local authorities' decision in their local priorities, which includes education school spending and the local schools funding formula, and, of course, finally, priorities set by local school leadership themselves for the individual needs within the schools.
So, as we know, the way our education system works in Wales is through national policy and some national grants like the pupil deprivation grant—which, again, Suzy was talking about earlier on, a policy that helps to overcome disadvantage—the regional consortia, which help to challenge and raise standards, and also shared services, which help to make it more cost-effective for local authorities and schools, and the local authority priorities, which include the funding formula for school funding. And this is all very nicely captured, actually, in the diagram that was on page 22 of the report, and I commend it to you as part of the understanding of this inquiry. It neatly shows us how money flows around the system. But those facts lead me to my next point, which is that the funding allocated by Welsh Government and local authorities needs to support the whole of that education schools system, and, in times of financial restraints, the reality is that, in order to increase funding in any particular part of the system, then decisions are required on who gets more, and, therefore, who gets less, and that's a key challenge for the whole system to respond to the needs in our communities.
So, it is right that recommendation 2 of the report stresses the need for preventative spending and the link with recommendation 4 about the importance of a needs-based approach to the allocation of funding. For me, that includes a high priority on the need to focus on tackling the impact of poverty on the prospects and the achievements of our children. But I also want to echo what Lynne Neagle said at the outset of this debate about the scale of the education agenda that we're currently pursuing in Wales, and I think it's worth reminding us that we're talking about the new curriculum, we're talking about the transition through to the ALN, we're talking about encouraging a whole-school approach to mental health, along with the support and development of teaching staff. So, education and school funding, within a framework of preventative spending, is a major funding issue for Welsh Government in the decade ahead, and, as a result, I hope that we are seeing some turn around after years of Tory cuts—we'll wait and see if the money comes our way—so that we can start to improve the funding situation for local authorities and for schools, and that the Welsh Government and local authorities are able to deliver an improved understanding on the funding needs of our schools, but we must also recognise that, even if councils get more money, how much of that money reaches schools does still depend on the priority of each school—sorry, each local authority.
Finally, Llywydd, we should also remember that the results achieved in our schools are not solely linked to the amount of money that they receive. There's a lot of evidence to show that, even in schools spending the highest sums of money, the attainment levels are often lower than in some schools spending far less, and I'm not sure we've got to the bottom of why that is.
And, while I agree with recommendation 21, which reminds us that the Welsh Government need to ensure the money is finding its way to the front line for the purposes intended, the debate about school funding should not distract us from the discussions around raising performance, in which school funding is only one factor.
Wel, rwy'n rhagdybio y bydd y Llywydd yn rhoi rhywfaint o amser ychwanegol i mi yn awr yn fy nghyfraniad oherwydd fy mod wedi cael llond bol ar sefyll yn y Siambr hon wythnos ar ôl wythnos yn clywed y Torïaid yn galw am fwy o wariant ar ein holl wasanaethau cyhoeddus a chithau wedi llywodraethu dros 10 mlynedd o gyni. Ni chymerwn unrhyw wersi gan y Ceidwadwyr ar wariant.
Yn ail, penderfyniadau cyllidebol Llywodraeth Cymru, y byddaf yn eu trafod yn awr, gan gynnwys y dyraniad i awdurdodau lleol a'r cyllid tuag at gyflawni blaenoriaethau addysg cenedlaethol. Yn drydydd, penderfyniad awdurdodau lleol yn eu blaenoriaethau lleol, sy'n cynnwys gwariant ar addysg ysgolion a fformiwla ariannu ysgolion lleol, ac wrth gwrs, yn olaf, blaenoriaethau a osodir gan arweinwyr ysgolion lleol eu hunain ar gyfer yr anghenion unigol o fewn yr ysgolion.
Felly, fel y gwyddom, y ffordd y mae ein system addysg yn gweithio yng Nghymru yw trwy bolisi cenedlaethol a rhai grantiau cenedlaethol fel y grant amddifadedd disgyblion—y soniodd Suzy amdano’n gynharach, polisi sy'n helpu i oresgyn anfantais—y consortia rhanbarthol, sy'n helpu i herio a chodi safonau, a chydwasanaethau hefyd, sy'n helpu i'w gwneud yn fwy costeffeithiol i awdurdodau lleol ac ysgolion, a blaenoriaethau awdurdodau lleol, sy'n cynnwys y fformiwla ariannu ar gyfer cyllido ysgolion. Ac mae hyn i gyd wedi'i grynhoi yn dda iawn, mewn gwirionedd, yn y diagram ar dudalen 22 yr adroddiad, ac rwy'n ei ganmol fel rhan o’r broses o ddeall yr ymchwiliad hwn. Mae'n dangos yn daclus i ni sut y mae arian yn llifo o amgylch y system. Ond mae’r ffeithiau hynny yn fy arwain at fy mhwynt nesaf, sef bod angen i’r cyllid a ddyrennir gan Lywodraeth Cymru ac awdurdodau lleol gefnogi’r system addysg ysgolion honno yn ei chyfanrwydd, ac ar adegau o gyfyngiadau ariannol, er mwyn cynyddu cyllid mewn unrhyw ran benodol o'r system, y gwir amdani yw fod angen gwneud penderfyniadau ynghylch pwy sy'n cael mwy, ac felly, pwy sy'n cael llai, ac mae honno'n her allweddol i'r system gyfan ymateb i'r anghenion yn ein cymunedau.
Felly, mae'n iawn bod argymhelliad 2 yr adroddiad yn pwysleisio'r angen am wariant ataliol a'r cysylltiad ag argymhelliad 4 ynghylch pwysigrwydd dull sy'n seiliedig ar anghenion o ddyrannu cyllid. I mi, mae hynny'n cynnwys blaenoriaeth uchel i’r angen i ganolbwyntio ar fynd i'r afael ag effaith tlodi ar ragolygon a chyflawniadau ein plant. Ond rwyf hefyd am adleisio'r hyn a ddywedodd Lynne Neagle ar ddechrau'r ddadl hon am raddfa'r agenda addysg rydym yn ei dilyn yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd, a chredaf ei bod yn werth atgoffa ein hunain ein bod yn siarad am y cwricwlwm newydd, rydym yn siarad am y trawsnewid drwodd i ADY, rydym yn siarad am annog agwedd ysgol gyfan tuag at iechyd meddwl, ynghyd â chefnogi a datblygu staff addysgu. Felly, mae addysg a chyllid ysgolion, o fewn fframwaith o wariant ataliol, yn fater cyllido pwysig i Lywodraeth Cymru yn y degawd sydd i ddod, ac o ganlyniad, gobeithio ein bod yn gweld rhywfaint o newid ar ôl blynyddoedd o doriadau Torïaidd—arhoswn i weld a ddaw'r arian i ni—fel y gallwn ddechrau gwella'r sefyllfa ariannu ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol ac ar gyfer ysgolion, a bod Llywodraeth Cymru ac awdurdodau lleol yn gallu darparu gwell dealltwriaeth o anghenion cyllido ein hysgolion, ond rhaid inni gydnabod hefyd, hyd yn oed os yw cynghorau'n cael mwy o arian, fod faint o'r arian hwnnw sy'n cyrraedd ysgolion yn dal i ddibynnu ar flaenoriaeth pob ysgol—pob awdurdod lleol, mae'n ddrwg gennyf.
Yn olaf, Lywydd, dylem gofio hefyd nad yw'r canlyniadau a gyflawnir yn ein hysgolion yn gysylltiedig yn unig â'r swm o arian y maent yn ei dderbyn. Hyd yn oed yn yr ysgolion sy'n gwario'r symiau uchaf o arian, mae llawer o dystiolaeth yn dangos bod y lefelau cyrhaeddiad yn aml yn is nag mewn rhai ysgolion sy’n gwario llawer llai, ac nid wyf yn siŵr ein bod wedi deall yn iawn pam fod hynny’n digwydd.
Ac er fy mod yn cytuno ag argymhelliad 21, sy'n ein hatgoffa bod angen i Lywodraeth Cymru sicrhau bod yr arian yn cyrraedd y rheng flaen at y dibenion a fwriadwyd, ni ddylai'r ddadl am gyllid ysgolion dynnu ein sylw oddi ar y trafodaethau ynghylch gwella perfformiad, lle nad yw cyllid ysgolion ond yn un ffactor yn unig.
Can I thank the committee for this report and can I say that we will be supporting the motion? Funding our schools, as with our NHS, has always been a controversial issue, but, as with the NHS, we cannot fail to ensure that our education system receives adequate funding. Whatever financial pressures our local authorities are under, school budgets are not the place to make cuts. Only by funding our schools at a level that ensures our children get the best possible education and, thus, the best start in life, can we ensure not only their futures but the future prosperity of the country as a whole. Education is the bedrock not only of our economy but also the social fabric of our society.
Minister, the world is changing. It is no longer good enough for us to keep up; we need to be ahead of the game, and that, in a modern industrial economy, means the highest quality education system possible. The changes that artificial intelligence will bring as well as many other advances in science and communication systems will put more and more pressure on all those engaged in the education sector. We cannot let them down with inadequate funding.
In a technological world, our education system is open to extreme pressures, and this means that the teaching profession will need to be continually training to meet those pressures. So, the question is how do we meet the challenges ahead and provide the funding levels that should make our children the best educated in the UK, if not the world.
We know the problems we face and we have to accept that resources are finite. Perhaps, then, we have to look to some radical solutions. In this, I mean it is time money allocated in the Welsh Government's education grants goes directly to schools rather than to local authorities who top-slice the money to fund local education departments. It is the schools and the teaching—[Interruption.] Yes, of course.
A gaf fi ddiolch i'r pwyllgor am yr adroddiad hwn ac a gaf fi ddweud y byddwn yn cefnogi'r cynnig? Mae ariannu ein hysgolion, fel gyda'n GIG, bob amser wedi bod yn fater dadleuol, ond fel gyda'r GIG, ni allwn fethu sicrhau bod ein system addysg yn derbyn cyllid digonol. Ni waeth pa bwysau ariannol sydd ar ein hawdurdodau lleol, nid cyllidebau ysgolion yw'r lle i wneud toriadau. Dim ond trwy ariannu ein hysgolion ar lefel sy'n sicrhau bod ein plant yn cael yr addysg orau bosibl ac felly, y dechrau gorau mewn bywyd, y gallwn sicrhau nid yn unig eu dyfodol hwy ond ffyniant y wlad gyfan yn y dyfodol. Addysg yw sylfaen ein heconomi a gwead cymdeithasol ein cymdeithas.
Weinidog, mae'r byd yn newid. Nid yw dal i fyny’n ddigon da bellach; mae angen i ni fod ar y blaen ac mae hynny, mewn economi ddiwydiannol fodern, yn golygu system addysg o'r ansawdd gorau posibl. Bydd y newidiadau a ddaw yn sgil deallusrwydd artiffisial yn ogystal â llawer o ddatblygiadau eraill mewn gwyddoniaeth a systemau cyfathrebu yn rhoi mwy a mwy o bwysau ar bawb sy'n ymwneud â'r sector addysg. Ni allwn eu siomi drwy beidio â darparu cyllid digonol.
Mewn byd technolegol, mae ein system addysg yn agored i bwysau eithafol, ac mae hyn yn golygu y bydd angen i'r proffesiwn addysgu fod yn hyfforddi'n barhaus i fynd i’r afael â phwysau o'r fath. Y cwestiwn felly yw sut y gallwn oresgyn yr heriau sydd o'n blaenau a darparu'r lefelau cyllid a ddylai olygu mai ein plant ni sy’n cael yr addysg orau yn y DU, os nad y byd?
Rydym yn gwybod am y problemau a wynebwn ac mae'n rhaid i ni dderbyn bod adnoddau'n gyfyngedig. Gan hynny, efallai fod yn rhaid inni edrych ar rai atebion radical. Yr hyn rwy'n ei olygu yw ei bod hi'n hen bryd i arian a ddyrennir drwy grantiau addysg Llywodraeth Cymru fynd yn uniongyrchol i ysgolion yn hytrach nag i awdurdodau lleol sy'n tocio'r arian er mwyn cyllido adrannau addysg lleol. Yr ysgolion a'r addysgu—[Torri ar draws.] Iawn, wrth gwrs.
You do realise the major expenditure by local education authorities centrally is on pre-school transport?
A ydych chi'n sylweddoli bod rhan helaeth o wariant awdurdodau addysg lleol yn ganolog yn mynd ar gludiant cyn-ysgol?
They can, of course, be done by the authority directly itself, if that is the case at this moment in time.
It is the schools and the teaching professionals who run them who know best where to spend the funds available. They are in the best place to decide priorities. Let's put our trust in these professionals.
I was told by a headmaster some years ago about the inflated costs he faced when having repairs done to his school—£500 to repair two holes the size of dinner plates in his schoolyard, which he could have had done professionally for £100. And £1,100 to replace a sliding window, which a father of a pupil, a professional carpenter, said he could have replaced at £90. Just two instances where the school budget is being wasted. These are moneys that should be going to educate pupils. If we have to accept that funds are finite, we should not be wasting those funds that are available.
Fe ellir ei wneud gan yr awdurdod ei hun yn uniongyrchol wrth gwrs, os yw hynny'n wir ar hyn o bryd.
Yr ysgolion a'r addysgwyr proffesiynol sy'n eu rhedeg sy'n gwybod orau ble i wario'r arian sydd ar gael; dyna’r bobl sydd yn y sefyllfa orau i benderfynu ar flaenoriaethau. Gadewch i ni ymddiried yn y gweithwyr proffesiynol hyn.
Cefais wybod gan brifathro rai blynyddoedd yn ôl am y costau mawr a wynebai i gael atgyweiriadau wedi’u gwneud i'w ysgol—£500 i atgyweirio dau dwll maint platiau cinio ar fuarth ei ysgol, y gallai fod wedi talu £100 am eu gwneud yn broffesiynol. A £1,100 i ailosod ffenestr lithro, y dywedodd tad disgybl, saer proffesiynol, y gallai fod wedi’i gosod am £90. Dwy enghraifft yn unig o ble y gwastreffir cyllideb ysgol. Dyma arian a ddylai fod yn mynd tuag at addysgu disgyblion. Os oes rhaid i ni dderbyn bod cronfeydd yn gyfyngedig, ni ddylem wastraffu'r cronfeydd sydd ar gael.
I would like to thank Lynne Neagle AM for her leadership as our chairman of the CYPE committee, the preparation of this report and also for introducing it here today. She has hit the nail on the head: there is simply not enough money going into the Welsh education system, and certainly not enough finding its way into our schools.
Now, of course, since the publication of this report—[Interruption.] I haven't even started. Sorry, I can't.
Since the publication of this report and, thankfully, our Prime Minister, the Rt Hon Boris Johnson MP, has announced that the Welsh Government will receive £1.24 billion extra spending directly for schools. This money will provide an opportunity for the education Minister to take decisive action to close, if not crush, this £645 per-pupil funding gap between England and Wales. Earlier this year, the National Association of Schoolmasters Union of Women Teachers' representative told us that it was the worst year for Welsh school budgets since 1995, and, sadly, things are only set to get worse because the Minister herself, actually, is in denial about this.
The WLGA have projected that the school budget gap will rise further to £319 million in 2022-23, and the cuts this is causing are crippling. For example, the number of teachers has fallen by 1,500 between 2010 and 2018, despite there only being 29 fewer pupils. There needs to be sufficient funding of schools, so I am pleased that recommendation 1 has been accepted. I will be following the urgent review with much interest because I believe that we need to know, however, the timings on this and by when we can hope to have a base figure for running a school and educating a child here in Wales.
Now, the report also gets to grips with monitoring the level of priority that local authorities give to schools within its distribution of funding and puts us on track to have a better understanding and tackling the known inconsistency with setting school budgets by 22 authorities. For example, the inequitable situation is exemplified when considering that the amount spent by authorities on schools can range from £5,107 to £6,456 per pupil. So, we are in a peculiar position where 501 schools held reserves above the statutory thresholds whilst 225 were in deficit as of March 2018. Shockingly, 70 per cent of Welsh secondary schools are currently in deficit. This is a priority problem.
I wonder, therefore, why the response to the recommendation about deficits does not explain how you are working with local authorities to explore effective management. I welcome your continued commitment to challenge regional consortia about money reaching the front line. The National Education Union have told us that they have had problems with the consortia since they were first established. The evidence we have received shows a lack of understanding of the roles of local government and regional consortia. I cannot criticise the confusion as even you are still working on providing clarity. And, Minister, I do recall during my scrutiny of you during one of your ministerial presentations to us at committee, you said, 'Janet, even I cannot follow the money from the Government to the schools', so there is a concern that if you can't follow it, how are our headteachers and, indeed, our parents able to follow it?
There is no bigger area calling out for clarity than spend on school improvement. In 2018-19, despite spending £11 million on purchasing school improvement services from consortia, local authorities also spent £10.9 million on school improvements. So, I strongly support the calls for an urgent comparison of both those spends. There is no room for duplication of work and financial frivolousness. The funding in the system must be made to work as effectively as possible as the school situation currently is unsustainable. For example, a headteacher in north Wales contacted me only yesterday to explain that teachers are leaving the profession and are not being replaced, teachers are reducing their hours due to budget pressures, and support staff are being hit by redundancies and reduced hours. So, I will be voting for the best interest of young people and our hardworking teachers, and I therefore support all the recommendations.
However, I do believe that you, Minister, can go further through addressing the queries I have raised to help provide a boost to schools from here, the Welsh Labour Government, as our Prime Minister has done from the UK Government.
Hoffwn ddiolch i Lynne Neagle AC am ei harweiniad fel cadeirydd ein Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg, am baratoi'r adroddiad hwn a hefyd am ei gyflwyno yma heddiw. Mae hi wedi taro'r hoelen ar ei phen: yn syml iawn, nid oes digon o arian yn mynd i mewn i system addysg Cymru, ac yn sicr nid oes digon yn cyrraedd ein hysgolion.
Nawr, wrth gwrs, ers cyhoeddi'r adroddiad hwn—[Torri ar draws.] Nid wyf hyd yn oed wedi dechrau. Ni allaf, mae’n ddrwg gennyf.
Ers cyhoeddi’r adroddiad hwn, a diolch byth, mae ein Prif Weinidog, y Gwir Anrhydeddus Boris Johnson AS, wedi cyhoeddi y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn derbyn £1.24 biliwn o wariant ychwanegol yn uniongyrchol ar gyfer ysgolion. Bydd yr arian yn rhoi cyfle i'r Gweinidog addysg roi camau pendant ar waith i gau, os nad dileu’r bwlch cyllido o £645 y disgybl rhwng Cymru a Lloegr. Yn gynharach eleni, dywedodd cynrychiolydd ar ran Cymdeithas Genedlaethol yr Ysgolfeistri ac Undeb yr Athrawesau wrthym mai hon oedd y flwyddyn waethaf ar gyllidebau ysgolion Cymru ers 1995, ac yn anffodus, mae pethau’n mynd i waethygu am fod y Gweinidog ei hun yn gwadu hyn mewn gwirionedd.
Mae Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru wedi rhagweld y bydd y bwlch yng nghyllideb ysgolion yn codi ymhellach i £319 miliwn yn 2022-23, ac mae'r toriadau y mae hyn yn eu hachosi yn creu anawsterau mawr. Er enghraifft, mae nifer yr athrawon wedi gostwng 1,500 rhwng 2010 a 2018, er mai dim ond 29 yn llai o ddisgyblion a geir. Mae angen cyllid digonol ar ysgolion, felly rwy'n falch bod argymhelliad 1 wedi'i dderbyn. Byddaf yn dilyn yr adolygiad brys gyda diddordeb mawr gan fy mod yn credu bod angen inni wybod, fodd bynnag, beth yw’r amserlen ar hyn ac erbyn pa bryd y gallwn obeithio cael ffigur sylfaen ar gyfer rhedeg ysgol ac addysgu plentyn yma yng Nghymru.
Nawr, mae'r adroddiad hefyd yn mynd i'r afael â monitro lefel y flaenoriaeth y mae awdurdodau lleol yn ei rhoi i ysgolion wrth iddynt ddosbarthu cyllid ac yn ein rhoi ar y trywydd iawn i gael gwell dealltwriaeth a mynd i'r afael â'r anghysondeb y gwyddom amdano wrth i'r 22 awdurdod lleol osod cyllidebau ysgolion. Er enghraifft, daw’r sefyllfa anghyfartal yn amlwg wrth ystyried y gall y swm a werir gan awdurdodau ar ysgolion amrywio o £5,107 i £6,456 y disgybl. Felly, rydym mewn sefyllfa ryfedd lle roedd 501 o ysgolion yn cadw cronfeydd wrth gefn sydd uwchlaw'r trothwyon statudol tra bod 225 ohonynt mewn diffyg ym mis Mawrth 2018. Yn frawychus, mae 70 y cant o ysgolion uwchradd Cymru mewn diffyg ar hyn o bryd. Mae hon yn broblem sy'n ymwneud â blaenoriaeth.
Tybed felly pam nad yw'r ymateb i'r argymhelliad ynghylch diffygion yn egluro sut rydych chi'n gweithio gydag awdurdodau lleol i archwilio rheolaeth effeithiol. Rwy’n croesawu eich ymrwymiad parhaus i herio consortia rhanbarthol ynghylch arian yn cyrraedd y rheng flaen. Mae'r Undeb Addysg Cenedlaethol wedi dweud wrthym eu bod wedi cael problemau gyda'r consortia ers iddynt gael eu sefydlu. Mae'r dystiolaeth a gawsom yn dangos diffyg dealltwriaeth o rolau llywodraeth leol a chonsortia rhanbarthol. Ni allaf feirniadu'r dryswch gan eich bod chi hyd yn oed yn dal i weithio ar ddarparu eglurder. Ac rwy’n cofio, Weinidog, yn ystod fy ngwaith craffu arnoch yn ystod un o'ch cyflwyniadau gweinidogol i ni yn y pwyllgor, eich bod wedi dweud, 'Janet, ni allaf fi hyd yn oed ddilyn yr arian o'r Llywodraeth i'r ysgolion', felly mae’n ofid, os na allwch chi ei ddilyn, sut y gall ein penaethiaid a’n rhieni ei ddilyn?
Nid oes unrhyw faes yn galw am fwy o eglurder na'r gwariant ar wella ysgolion. Yn 2018-19, er bod £11 miliwn wedi’i wario ar brynu gwasanaethau gwella ysgolion gan gonsortia, gwariodd awdurdodau lleol £10.9 miliwn yn ogystal ar welliannau i ysgolion. Felly, rwy’n cefnogi’n gryf y galwadau am gymharu’r ddau wariant ar frys. Nid oes lle i ddyblygu gwaith ac ysgafalwch ariannol. Rhaid gwneud i’r cyllid yn y system weithio mor effeithiol â phosibl gan fod sefyllfa'r ysgolion yn anghynaladwy ar hyn o bryd. Er enghraifft, cysylltodd pennaeth yng ngogledd Cymru â mi ddoe i egluro bod athrawon yn gadael y proffesiwn ac nad oes neb yn dod yn eu lle, mae athrawon yn lleihau eu horiau oherwydd pwysau cyllidebol, ac mae staff cymorth yn cael eu taro gan ddiswyddiadau a llai o oriau. Byddaf yn pleidleisio er budd gorau pobl ifanc a'n hathrawon gweithgar, ac felly rwy'n cefnogi'r holl argymhellion.
Fodd bynnag, credaf y gallwch chi, Weinidog, fynd ymhellach trwy fynd i'r afael â'r cwestiynau a ofynnais i helpu i roi hwb i ysgolion o'r fan hon, Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru, fel y mae ein Prif Weinidog wedi'i wneud o Lywodraeth y DU.
I think, like others this afternoon, I wish to express my gratitude to the committee for this report. I think it's a real testimony to the work and commitment of the whole committee and also the leadership of Lynne Neagle that this committee consistently brings forward reports that not only challenge Government and hold the Government to account, but also challenge all of us to respond to these matters in a reasoned and considered way.
Fel eraill y prynhawn yma rwy'n credu, hoffwn fynegi fy niolch i'r pwyllgor am yr adroddiad hwn. Rwy'n credu ei fod yn tystio i waith ac ymrwymiad y pwyllgor cyfan ac arweiniad Lynne Neagle fod y pwyllgor hwn yn cyflwyno adroddiadau’n gyson sydd nid yn unig yn herio'r Llywodraeth ac yn dwyn y Llywodraeth i gyfrif, ond hefyd yn herio pob un ohonom i ymateb i'r materion hyn mewn ffordd resymol ac ystyriol.
Will you take an intervention?
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?
Yes.
Gwnaf.
On that point, will you therefore express some regret at the party political tone that has come today only from the benches of the Conservative Party?
Ar y pwynt hwnnw, a ydych chi’n gresynu at y cywair gwleidyddiaeth plaid sydd wedi dod yn unig heddiw oddi ar feinciau’r Blaid Geidwadol?
Well, you haven't heard my speech yet [Laughter.]. I always fear when we try to take the politics out of politics. How we allocate our funds and what we do—[Interruption.] You are trying to be constructive, and you don't need to tweet me; I heard what you said—[Laughter.]—and I recognise the importance of the point you wish to make.
But, this afternoon, I want to address three issues in this debate. The first is the amount of money available to the education budget and to schools. All of us will make the case—and I in Government have made the case—for funds for our own portfolio areas, and I have suffered the intense pain of disagreeing with Kirsty Williams in Government as she has made the case for education funding. I pay testament to the leadership of Lynne Neagle as the Chair of the committee, but we can also do so in terms of the education Minister herself. All too often, we have these debates and we have these discussions, but I know from my experience in Government that the Minister we have today is also somebody who has argued for funding within Government and argued for that within budget in Cabinet. I give way.
Wel, nid ydych wedi clywed fy araith i eto [Chwerthin.]. Rwyf bob amser yn ofni pan geisiwn dynnu gwleidyddiaeth allan o wleidyddiaeth. Mae’r modd y dyrannwn ein cronfeydd a'r hyn a wnawn—[Torri ar draws.] Rydych chi'n ceisio bod yn adeiladol, ac nid oes angen i chi drydar; clywais yr hyn a ddywedoch chi—[Chwerthin.]—ac rwy'n cydnabod pwysigrwydd y pwynt rydych am ei wneud.
Ond y prynhawn yma, rwyf am fynd i’r afael â thri mater yn y ddadl hon. Y cyntaf yw'r swm o arian sydd ar gael i'r gyllideb addysg ac i ysgolion. Bydd pob un ohonom yn dadlau’r achos—ac rwyf wedi dadlau yn y Llywodraeth—dros gael arian i’n meysydd portffolio ein hunain, ac rwyf wedi dioddef y boen enfawr o anghytuno â Kirsty Williams yn y Llywodraeth wrth iddi ddadlau’r achos dros gyllid addysg. Rwy'n tystio i arweiniad Lynne Neagle fel Cadeirydd y pwyllgor, ond gallwn wneud hynny hefyd mewn perthynas â'r Gweinidog addysg ei hun. Yn rhy aml o lawer, rydym yn cael y dadleuon hyn ac rydym yn cael y trafodaethau hyn, ond gwn o fy mhrofiad yn y Llywodraeth fod y Gweinidog sydd gennym heddiw hefyd yn rhywun sydd wedi dadlau dros gyllid o fewn y Llywodraeth ac wedi dadlau drosto o fewn y gyllideb yn y Cabinet. Fe ildiaf.
Thank you very much. Of course, one of the things that we discovered in the course of our committee work is that while there is an education budget that is under the oversight of the education Minister, it's the local government end of things that has been causing the problem, and I suspect you may have something to say about that.
Diolch yn fawr. Wrth gwrs, er bod yna gyllideb addysg o dan oruchwyliaeth y Gweinidog addysg, un o'r pethau a ganfuwyd yn ystod ein gwaith pwyllgor yw mai pen llywodraeth leol i bethau sydd wedi bod yn achosi'r broblem, ac rwy'n tybio efallai fod gennych chi rywbeth i'w ddweud am hynny.
I do, and I will be addressing that in this speech. But the point must be made that, at the end of the day, it is the Government's budget, and the Government needs to take decisions on these matters, and these are intensely political matters, I have to say. To lead is to decide, and I say this to all Ministers in this place this afternoon: we expect a budget to be brought forward later this term that recognises the importance of education and recognises the central place of schools in what we're seeking to do. I see the chief whip is in her place, and she's been very generous to me recently, so I don't wish to abuse that generosity, but I fear I might, when I say to her that a budget that is published that does not give fair play to education and to schools is not a budget that will enjoy support from these backbenches. We need to ensure that the budget, when it is brought forward, is one that recognises the importance of a sufficiently funded education system.
The second point I wish to make is about the complexity of the system, and Suzy Davies has, in many ways, addressed this. Let me say this—during the budget discussions that took place last year, as people will remember, I was the local government Minister. I supported the additional funding being provided to education at that time, and I supported it in the form of a grant to try to ensure that this funding actually reaches the classroom and doesn't simply stop at the local county hall.
I'm grateful to the committee for demonstrating clearly that there is far too much complexity in the system, and that schools do not therefore receive the funds that we would expect them to receive. If the system were to be reformed, then there would not be any need to do these things in such a way, but my fear is that in an unreformed system, the clear priority of teaching staff, children and young people, who have the right to expect better of us, will not see the benefit, even where those difficult decisions on funding are taken.
I would ask the Minister to consider not simply the arguments over additional funding, but also what is found in this report about the complexity of the system. I would be absolutely clear in my mind that it is right and proper that we do debate and discuss hypothecation of education funding, that we ring-fence funds for schools to ensure that all local authorities are compelled to spend the funds that are voted for education through this place on education and that they reach the classroom.
I would also ask the Minister to consider funding schools through the consortia or another system of regional funding. This would cut the complexity and the bureaucracy, and increase the capacity of locally based organisations to provide an education system. But we have to ensure, again, that we address the complexity and the bureaucracy within the system. If we're unable to do this, then I fear that we will have to consider the direct funding of schools. This is not something I've ever argued for in the past, but it is now something that I believe we may need to consider if we're unable to reform the system in any other way. It is more important to me that teachers, that young people, that children in this country have the education they deserve than we sacrifice their education on the altar of our principles, and we have to take that decision. We can't simply wish money into that classroom; we have to vote it into that classroom, and then we have to vote through the changes that make that money reach that classroom. We can't say that we want to see that, making an easy, popular speech on a Wednesday afternoon, if we are not then prepared to take the tough decisions next Monday morning to make sure that funding reaches that teacher, that pupil, that student in that classroom. And so I say to people, 'Don't simply accept this report this afternoon unless you've got the courage of your convictions to make the case for that funding reaching that classroom.'
I'll conclude, Presiding Officer—I know I'm testing you again this afternoon—with the point I made at questions earlier. I have a personal commitment that I know the Minister shares to additional learning needs, and when we worked together in the education department to deliver a reformed system for additional learning needs, we also ensured that the resources were there in order to deliver that. But we also know that we need those resources ring-fenced as well, and I hope that when the budget is brought forward we will have a place for additional learning needs ring-fenced within that budget, so we don't simply reform the system, but we provide the education for children and young people with additional learning needs that they deserve, throughout the whole of this country. Thank you.
Oes, a byddaf yn mynd i’r afael â hynny yn yr araith hon. Ond rhaid gwneud y pwynt mai cyllideb y Llywodraeth yw hi yn y pen draw, ac mae angen i'r Llywodraeth wneud penderfyniadau ar y materion hyn, ac mae'r rhain yn faterion hynod o wleidyddol, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud. Mae arwain yn galw am benderfynu, a dywedaf hyn wrth bob Gweinidog yn y lle hwn y prynhawn yma: rydym yn disgwyl i gyllideb gael ei chyflwyno yn ddiweddarach y tymor hwn sy'n cydnabod pwysigrwydd addysg ac yn cydnabod lle canolog ysgolion yn yr hyn y ceisiwn ei wneud. Rwy'n gweld bod y prif chwip yn ei lle, ac mae hi wedi bod yn garedig iawn wrthyf yn ddiweddar, felly nid wyf am sathru ar yr haelioni hwnnw, ond rwy'n ofni efallai y gwnaf, pan ddywedaf wrthi fod cyllideb a gyhoeddir nad yw'n rhoi chwarae teg i addysg ac i ysgolion yn gyllideb a fydd yn mwynhau cefnogaeth y meinciau cefn hyn. Mae angen i ni sicrhau bod y gyllideb, pan gaiff ei chyflwyno, yn un sy'n cydnabod pwysigrwydd system addysg wedi'i hariannu'n ddigonol.
Mae'r ail bwynt yr hoffwn ei wneud yn ymwneud â chymhlethdod y system, ac mae Suzy Davies, mewn sawl ffordd, wedi mynd i'r afael â hyn. Gadewch i mi ddweud hyn—yn ystod y trafodaethau ar y gyllideb a gynhaliwyd y llynedd, fel y bydd pobl yn cofio, fi oedd y Gweinidog llywodraeth leol. Cefnogais yr arian ychwanegol a gâi ei ddarparu i addysg bryd hynny, ac fe'i cefnogais ar ffurf grant i geisio sicrhau bod y cyllid hwn yn cyrraedd yr ystafell ddosbarth mewn gwirionedd ac nad yw'n gorffen ei daith yn y neuadd sir leol.
Rwy'n ddiolchgar i'r pwyllgor am ddangos yn glir fod llawer gormod o gymhlethdod yn y system, ac o’r herwydd, nad yw ysgolion yn derbyn yr arian y byddem yn disgwyl iddynt ei gael. Pe bai'r system yn cael ei diwygio, ni fyddai angen gwneud y pethau hyn yn y fath fodd, ond mewn system heb ei diwygio, rwy’n ofni na fydd blaenoriaeth glir i sicrhau bod staff addysgu, plant a phobl ifanc, sydd â hawl i ddisgwyl gwell gennym, yn gweld y budd, hyd yn oed pan wneir y penderfyniadau anodd hynny ar gyllid.
Buaswn yn gofyn i'r Gweinidog ystyried nid yn unig y dadleuon dros gyllid ychwanegol, ond hefyd yr hyn a geir yn yr adroddiad hwn am gymhlethdod y system. Buaswn yn hollol glir yn fy meddwl ei bod yn iawn ac yn briodol ein bod yn dadlau ac yn trafod neilltuo cyllid addysg, ein bod yn clustnodi arian ar gyfer ysgolion er mwyn sicrhau bod pob awdurdod lleol yn cael eu gorfodi i wario'r arian sy'n ddyledus ar gyfer addysg trwy'r lle hwn a'i fod yn cyrraedd yr ystafell ddosbarth.
Buaswn yn gofyn hefyd i'r Gweinidog ystyried ariannu ysgolion trwy'r consortia neu system arall o gyllido rhanbarthol. Byddai hyn yn cyfyngu ar gymhlethdod a biwrocratiaeth, ac yn cynyddu capasiti sefydliadau lleol i ddarparu system addysg. Ond mae'n rhaid i ni sicrhau, unwaith eto, ein bod yn mynd i'r afael â'r cymhlethdod a'r fiwrocratiaeth o fewn y system. Os na allwn wneud hyn, ofnaf y bydd yn rhaid inni ystyried cyllido ysgolion yn uniongyrchol. Nid yw hyn yn rhywbeth y dadleuais drosto yn y gorffennol, ond mae bellach yn rhywbeth y credaf efallai y bydd yn rhaid inni ei ystyried os na allwn ddiwygio'r system mewn unrhyw ffordd arall. Mae'n bwysicach i mi fod athrawon, fod pobl ifanc, fod plant y wlad hon yn cael yr addysg y maent yn ei haeddu na'n bod yn aberthu eu haddysg ar allor ein hegwyddorion, ac mae'n rhaid i ni wneud y penderfyniad hwnnw. Ni allwn ddymuno arian i mewn i'r ystafell ddosbarth heb wneud dim arall, mae'n rhaid i ni ei bleidleisio i mewn i'r ystafell ddosbarth, ac mae'n rhaid i ni bleidleisio o blaid newidiadau sy'n gwneud i’r arian hwnnw gyrraedd yr ystafell ddosbarth. Ni allwn ddweud ein bod am weld hynny, a gwneud araith hawdd, boblogaidd ar brynhawn Mercher os nad ydym yn barod i wneud y penderfyniadau anodd fore Llun nesaf i sicrhau bod cyllid yn cyrraedd yr athro, y disgybl, y myfyriwr yn yr ystafell ddosbarth. Ac felly, rwy’n dweud wrth bobl, 'Peidiwch â derbyn yr adroddiad hwn y prynhawn yma oni bai eich bod yn ddigon dewr i sefyll dros eich argyhoeddiad i ddadlau dros wneud i’r arian gyrraedd yr ystafell ddosbarth.'
Fe ddof i ben, Lywydd—rwy'n gwybod fy mod yn profi eich amynedd eto y prynhawn yma—gyda'r pwynt a wneuthum mewn cwestiynau yn gynharach. Mae gennyf ymrwymiad personol y gwn fod y Gweinidog yn ei rannu tuag at anghenion dysgu ychwanegol, a phan fuom yn gweithio gyda'n gilydd yn yr adran addysg i ddarparu system ddiwygiedig ar gyfer anghenion dysgu ychwanegol, gwnaethom sicrhau hefyd fod yr adnoddau yno i gyflawni hynny. Ond gwyddom fod angen clustnodi'r adnoddau hynny yn ogystal, ac rwy’n gobeithio, pan gyflwynir y gyllideb, y bydd gennym le ar gyfer anghenion dysgu ychwanegol wedi'i glustnodi o fewn y gyllideb honno, fel ein bod yn gwneud mwy na diwygio'r system yn unig, ac yn darparu’r addysg y maent yn ei haeddu i blant a phobl ifanc ag anghenion dysgu ychwanegol ym mhob rhan o’r wlad hon. Diolch.
Y Gweinidog Addysg, Kirsty Williams.
The Minister for Education, Kirsty Williams.
Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. Could I begin by thanking the committee for their report and their consideration given to this most important of areas? I'm very grateful that the committee took the decision to look at this subject, and as always, as Alun Davies says, the committee's consideration has been detailed, thoughtful and useful to me as the Minister for Education. As I have stated in my written response to the committee, the strength of the evidence provided highlights how essential it is that our schools receive the appropriate levels of funding.
The report also highlights just how hugely complex the school funding system is. That's something that I also recognise. It's multilayered and it's dependent on many factors, which make it incredibly difficult to provide a simple, single solution. I have accepted all of the committee's recommendations, and my officials have already started taking these forward, but I hear the points raised by the Chair of the committee and I'm happy to supply further written responses to the points that she has raised, because I will not have time in my contribution this afternoon to address them all.
However, we have to recognise that whilst the UK Government's spending round indicates some loosening of the purse strings, it does not provide the sustainable long-term basis on which to plan that our public services desperately need and is referenced in recommendation 15 of the committee's report. I have to say to Suzy Davies, with the greatest of respect, she quoted a figure of three years' funding that has been made available to the Department of Education. I would have loved to have been in the same position. The reality is that this Government does not know its spending allocation for more than one year. It is all very well to give that security to colleagues in England and then not provide that security to us here in Wales, and people out there need to know that. The Welsh Conservatives—
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Lywydd. A gaf fi ddechrau trwy ddiolch i'r pwyllgor am eu hadroddiad a'r ystyriaeth a roesant i'r maes hollbwysig hwn? Rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn i'r pwyllgor am wneud y penderfyniad i edrych ar y pwnc hwn, ac fel bob amser, fel y dywed Alun Davies, mae ystyriaeth y pwyllgor wedi bod yn fanwl, yn feddylgar ac yn ddefnyddiol i mi fel Gweinidog Addysg. Fel y dywedais yn fy ymateb ysgrifenedig i'r pwyllgor, mae cryfder y dystiolaeth a ddarparwyd yn tynnu sylw at ba mor hanfodol yw hi fod ein hysgolion yn derbyn y lefelau priodol o gyllid.
Mae'r adroddiad hefyd yn tynnu sylw at ba mor gymhleth yw'r system ariannu ysgolion. Mae hynny'n rhywbeth rwy'n ei gydnabod hefyd. Mae'n amlhaenog ac mae'n dibynnu ar lawer o ffactorau, sy'n ei gwneud yn anhygoel o anodd darparu un ateb syml. Rwyf wedi derbyn holl argymhellion y pwyllgor, ac mae fy swyddogion eisoes wedi dechrau bwrw ymlaen â'r rhain, ond rwy'n clywed y pwyntiau a godwyd gan Gadeirydd y pwyllgor ac rwy'n hapus i ddarparu ymatebion ysgrifenedig pellach i'r pwyntiau a gododd oherwydd ni fydd gennyf amser yn fy nghyfraniad y prynhawn yma i fynd i’r afael â phob un ohonynt.
Fodd bynnag, er bod cylch gwariant Llywodraeth y DU yn dangos rhywfaint o lacio ar linynnau'r pwrs, mae’n rhaid i ni gydnabod nad yw'n darparu'r sail hirdymor gynaliadwy i gynllunio arni sydd ei hangen yn ddybryd ar ein gwasanaethau cyhoeddus ac y cyfeirir ati yn argymhelliad 15 o adroddiad y pwyllgor. Rhaid imi ddweud wrth Suzy Davies, gyda'r parch mwyaf, dyfynnodd ffigur cyllid tair blynedd sydd ar gael i'r Adran Addysg. Buaswn wedi dwli bod yn y sefyllfa honno. Y gwir amdani yw nad yw'r Llywodraeth hon yn gwybod beth yw ei dyraniad gwariant am fwy na blwyddyn. Mae'n hawdd iawn rhoi'r sicrwydd hwnnw i gydweithwyr yn Lloegr a pheidio â darparu'r un sicrwydd i ni yma yng Nghymru, ac mae angen i bobl wybod hynny. Mae’r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig—
Will you take an intervention?
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?
No, I won't. The Welsh Conservatives speak disingenuously about the level of funding Wales received via the spending round for next year. As they should know, due to issues surrounding the treatment of non-domestic rates, that has led to a reduction of £178 million to the Welsh budget, and you simply cannot compare like for like when looking at departmental budgets. Essentially, Wales's overall budget has risen, it has risen, by some 2.3 per cent in real terms next year—that is a fact that I am quite happy to acknowledge—whilst the key departments in England have seen rises of more than 3 per cent in real terms. That is the reality of the situation that we're dealing with.
I also continue to see that the Welsh Conservatives refer to an alleged £600 per pupil spending gap compared to England. They know, Presiding Officer, that they are quoting an old figure from 2011, and they know it is incorrect. They know that up-to-date figures show the gap has been virtually eliminated. It is really time, if we're to make progress on this issue, that we are honest about the situation that we all face and we stop trying to mislead people.
Members will be aware of the call yesterday, Presiding Officer, from the Welsh Youth Parliament for more emphasis on life skills, including financial education, in the curriculum. Well, after the performance this afternoon, all I can say is perhaps I could arrange an adult education class on the same subject for some of the Members in this Chamber. It might be a good start.
Presiding Officer, I'm not intending to go through each of the report’s recommendations. I have been clear in my response to the committee, and if the Chair wants further clarity, I'm happy to provide that. But I would like to provide a little more detail on the primary recommendation contained in the report, recommendation 1. We have engaged with stakeholders who called for the review as well as those who have done research into education funding. So, we have sought advice from National Education Union, from NAHT, from the Association of School and College Leaders, from Undeb Cenedlaethol Athrawon Cymru—our various union stakeholders.
The committee will be aware, as is Siân Gwenllian, of the complexities in identifying the basic cost of running a school and educating a pupil. The IFS say that average per-pupil spend in Wales is just under £6,000 per person, but spending per pupil varies. It varies across local authorities. This range reflects a combination of differences in deprivation, in sparsity, in the deployment of staff in individual institutions, of the very structure of a school system within a local education authority, as well as the choices that are made by local authorities in line with their responsibility for setting school budgets. And as a result, I would argue that there is no average Welsh school.
We need to have a clear understanding of how different schools and different authorities spend their money at present, and we need to do that to help influence future policy making. I am therefore pleased to announce this afternoon that the leading education economist, Luke Sibieta, has agreed to undertake this work independently of Government. I'm sure that Members will recognise Luke’s expertise and work in this area, including his work for the Institute for Fiscal Studies, and I will make further announcements on the terms of reference of the review and the timescales of Luke’s review in coming days.
Na wnaf. Mae’r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn siarad yn annidwyll am lefel y cyllid a dderbyniodd Cymru trwy'r cylch gwario ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf. Fel y dylent wybod, oherwydd materion yn ymwneud â’r modd o drin ardrethi annomestig, mae hynny wedi arwain at ostyngiad o £178 miliwn yng nghyllideb Cymru, ac ni allwch gymharu tebyg a thebyg wrth edrych ar gyllidebau adrannol. Yn y bôn, mae cyllideb gyffredinol Cymru wedi codi, mae wedi codi, tua 2.3 y cant mewn termau real y flwyddyn nesaf—dyna ffaith rwy’n gwbl hapus i'w chydnabod—tra bod yr adrannau allweddol yn Lloegr wedi gweld codiadau o fwy na 3 y cant mewn termau real. Dyna realiti'r sefyllfa rydym yn ymdrin â hi.
Rwyf hefyd yn parhau i weld bod y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn cyfeirio at fwlch gwariant honedig o £600 y disgybl o'i gymharu â Lloegr. Maent yn gwybod, Lywydd, eu bod yn dyfynnu hen ffigur o 2011, ac maent yn gwybod ei fod yn anghywir. Maent yn gwybod bod y ffigurau diweddaraf yn dangos bod y bwlch wedi'i ddileu fwy neu lai. Os ydym am wneud cynnydd ar y mater hwn, mae’n hen bryd ein bod yn onest am y sefyllfa rydym i gyd yn ei hwynebu a’n bod yn rhoi'r gorau i geisio camarwain pobl.
Bydd yr Aelodau’n ymwybodol o’r alwad ddoe, Lywydd, gan Senedd Ieuenctid Cymru am fwy o bwyslais ar sgiliau bywyd gan gynnwys addysg ariannol yn y cwricwlwm. Wel, ar ôl y perfformiad y prynhawn yma, y cyfan y gallaf ei ddweud yw efallai y gallwn drefnu dosbarth addysg i oedolion ar yr un pwnc i rai o'r Aelodau yn y Siambr hon. Gallai fod yn ddechrau da.
Lywydd, nid wyf yn bwriadu mynd trwy bob un o argymhellion yr adroddiad. Bûm yn glir yn fy ymateb i'r pwyllgor, ac os yw'r Cadeirydd eisiau eglurder pellach, rwy'n hapus i ddarparu hynny. Ond hoffwn ddarparu ychydig mwy o fanylion ynghylch prif argymhelliad yr adroddiad, argymhelliad 1. Rydym wedi ymgysylltu â rhanddeiliaid a alwodd am yr adolygiad yn ogystal â'r rhai sydd wedi ymchwilio i gyllid addysg. Felly, rydym wedi gofyn am gyngor gan yr Undeb Addysg Cenedlaethol, gan Gymdeithas Genedlaethol y Prifathrawon, gan Gymdeithas Arweinwyr Ysgolion a Cholegau, gan Undeb Cenedlaethol Athrawon Cymru—ein gwahanol randdeiliaid undeb.
Bydd y pwyllgor yn ymwybodol, fel y mae Siân Gwenllian, o'r cymhlethdodau wrth nodi cost sylfaenol rhedeg ysgol ac addysgu disgybl. Mae'r Sefydliad Astudiaethau Cyllid yn dweud bod gwariant cyfartalog y disgybl yng Nghymru ychydig o dan £6,000 y pen, ond mae gwariant y disgybl yn amrywio. Mae'n amrywio ar draws awdurdodau lleol. Mae'r amrywiaeth hon yn adlewyrchu cyfuniad o wahaniaethau o ran amddifadedd, teneurwydd poblogaeth, defnydd o staff mewn sefydliadau unigol, union strwythur system ysgolion mewn awdurdod addysg lleol, yn ogystal â'r dewisiadau a wneir gan awdurdodau lleol yn unol â’u cyfrifoldeb dros bennu cyllidebau ysgolion. Ac o ganlyniad, buaswn yn dadlau nad oes ysgol gyfartalog yng Nghymru.
Mae angen i ni gael dealltwriaeth glir o sut y mae gwahanol ysgolion a gwahanol awdurdodau yn gwario eu harian ar hyn o bryd, ac mae angen i ni wneud hynny i helpu i ddylanwadu ar lunio polisïau yn y dyfodol. Rwy’n falch felly o gyhoeddi y prynhawn yma fod yr addysgwr-economegydd blaenllaw, Luke Sibieta, wedi cytuno i ymgymryd â’r gwaith hwn yn annibynnol ar y Llywodraeth. Rwy’n siŵr y bydd yr Aelodau’n cydnabod arbenigedd a gwaith Luke yn y maes hwn, gan gynnwys ei waith i’r Sefydliad Astudiaethau Cyllid, a byddaf yn gwneud cyhoeddiadau pellach ar gylch gorchwyl yr adolygiad ac amserlenni adolygiad Luke yn y dyddiau nesaf.
Will you take an intervention?
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?
Yes, of course.
Gwnaf, wrth gwrs.
Just on the review, what's the timetable for that, please? My fear is that—. It is complex, the whole area is complicated. Isn't this going to be an excuse to kick the whole discussion into the long grass, because the schools need the money as soon as possible, not 12 months down the line?
Ar yr adolygiad, beth yw'r amserlen ar ei gyfer, os gwelwch yn dda? Yr hyn rwy'n ei ofni yw fod—mae'n gymhleth, mae'r maes cyfan yn gymhleth. Onid yw’n mynd i fod yn esgus ar gyfer gwthio'r holl drafodaeth naill ochr, oherwydd mae angen yr arian ar yr ysgolion cyn gynted â phosibl, nid 12 mis yn nes ymlaen?
I will be guided by Luke’s expertise in this issue, and I'm sure we'd all want the work to be a comprehensive piece of work, but I would be hopeful that that work would be completed before the summer recess of 2020, and therefore is an opportunity to influence the next set of budget discussions.
In turn, I'd like to focus on recommendation 4, asking us to consider how the allocation of resources for local authorities can be determined by a needs-based approach, and what this approach should consider in relation to the education element of a local authority’s funding. I welcome that the education part of the local government distribution sub-group is already considering the potential for developing an alternative approach to the education formula within the local government settlement model. The work on the education element of the formula is essentially a pilot that will need to be tested really thoroughly before this methodology is considered for further roll-out, and I will consider how this work aligns with the work being taken forward under recommendation 1. And I'm very grateful to the Minister for Local Government and Housing for agreeing to work in partnership with me on this particular recommendation. And of course, we'll be very happy to keep colleagues updates on that work.
I recognise that to continue raising standards, our schools need support through core funding. However, as we have discussed at length this afternoon, as the local government settlement is unhypothecated, it is for local authorities to determine their priorities. And I would say to both Suzy Davies and indeed to Alun Davies: you may have a view over the direct funding of schools, but I have to say there is a different view from Labour leaders of local authorities in Wales, and indeed those in the Conservative Party who have positions of responsibility for local authorities in Wales, who feel very, very differently. Perhaps you should have conversations with them.
And, Darren, as regard to this false premise of a north versus south divide, I recently took the time and trouble to go to the distribution sub-group. I specifically asked the leaders of the councils that were represented there that afternoon whether they would undertake a review of the data and the funding formula. And I have to say, both the leader of Wrexham, which I believe is in north Wales, and the leader of Gwynedd, which I also believe is in north Wales, absolutely refused to enter into a debate about changing the funding formula.
So, if I can get back to my script, and I'm conscious of the time, Presiding Officer, I would like to recognise that I continue, within the education department, to provide significant grants above and beyond the allocations in the RSG to fund local schools, local authorities and regional education consortia. As I'm sure Members will recognise, we have a hugely ambitious reform agenda set out in our national mission action plan, and despite continued strains on our budgets, I was pleased last year to be able to announce the single biggest investment in the professional learning of the teaching profession since devolution started. And in setting teachers' pay for the first time this year in Wales, we have diverged from the proposals in England by ensuring that the starting salary for teachers starting to work in Wales is higher than it is across the border. This will help to promote teaching as a profession of choice for graduates and career changers.
To conclude, to all Members who are making the case for school funding, I say, 'Of course, I support increasing education funding', and I think my record even before I came into the Government was proof of that. But I am yet to see a genuine, thought through, comprehensive spending calculation from anyone in the opposition that demonstrates where they will cut funding to put more money into my budget. There is no proof of any opposition party here that makes school funding a priority. But, as ever, I'm very happy to discuss proposals and suggestions as they come through. And I'd like to reiterate once again that I welcome the committee's report and that I hope that there is cross-Chamber support for the recommendations that that report contains.
Caf fy arwain gan arbenigedd Luke yn y mater hwn, ac rwy'n siŵr y byddem i gyd eisiau i'r gwaith fod yn gynhwysfawr, ond buaswn yn gobeithio y byddai wedi’i gwblhau cyn toriad haf 2020, a felly mae'n gyfle i ddylanwadu ar y set nesaf o drafodaethau'r cyllideb.
Yn ei dro, hoffwn ganolbwyntio ar argymhelliad 4, sy'n gofyn i ni ystyried sut y gellir pennu dyraniad adnoddau i awdurdodau lleol trwy ddull sy'n seiliedig ar anghenion, a beth y dylai'r dull hwn ei ystyried mewn perthynas â’r elfen addysg o gyllid awdurdod lleol. Rwy’n croesawu’r ffaith bod y rhan addysg o'r is-grŵp dosbarthu llywodraeth leol eisoes yn ystyried y potensial ar gyfer datblygu dull amgen yn lle’r fformiwla addysg o fewn y model setliad llywodraeth leol. Yn ei hanfod, mae'r gwaith ar elfen addysg y fformiwla yn beilot y bydd angen ei brofi'n drylwyr iawn cyn y gellir ystyried cyflwyno’r fethodoleg hon ymhellach, a byddaf yn ystyried sut y mae'r gwaith hwn yn cyd-fynd â'r gwaith a ddatblygir o dan argymhelliad 1. Ac rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn i'r Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Thai am gytuno i weithio mewn partneriaeth â mi ar yr argymhelliad penodol hwn. Ac wrth gwrs, byddwn yn hapus iawn i roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i gyd-Aelodau am y gwaith hwnnw.
Er mwyn parhau i godi safonau, rwy'n cydnabod bod angen cefnogaeth ar ein hysgolion trwy gyllid craidd. Fodd bynnag, fel rydym wedi trafod yn helaeth y prynhawn yma, gan fod y setliad llywodraeth leol heb ei neilltuo, mater i awdurdodau lleol yw penderfynu ar eu blaenoriaethau. A hoffwn ddweud wrth Suzy Davies ac wrth Alun Davies yn wir: efallai fod gennych farn ynghylch ariannu ysgolion yn uniongyrchol, ond mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud bod barn wahanol gan arweinwyr Llafur awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru, ac yn wir y rheini yn y Blaid Geidwadol sydd mewn swyddi â chyfrifoldeb mewn awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru, sy'n teimlo'n wahanol iawn. Efallai y dylech gael sgyrsiau gyda hwy.
A Darren, o ran y rhagosodiad ffug hwn o raniad rhwng gogledd a de, rhoddais amser yn ddiweddar i fynd i’r is-grŵp dosbarthu. Gofynnais yn benodol i arweinwyr y cynghorau a gynrychiolwyd yno y prynhawn hwnnw a fyddent yn cynnal adolygiad o'r data a'r fformiwla ariannu. Ac mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud, fe wnaeth arweinydd Wrecsam, y credaf ei fod yng ngogledd Cymru, ac arweinydd Gwynedd y credaf ei fod yng ngogledd Cymru hefyd, wrthod yn bendant y cynnig i drafod newid y fformiwla ariannu.
Felly, os caf fynd yn ôl at fy sgript, ac rwy'n ymwybodol o'r amser, Lywydd, hoffwn gydnabod fy mod yn parhau, o fewn yr adran addysg, i ddarparu grantiau sylweddol, yn ychwanegol at y dyraniadau yn y grant cynnal refeniw i ariannu ysgolion lleol, awdurdodau lleol a chonsortia addysg rhanbarthol. Fel rwy'n siŵr y bydd yr Aelodau'n cydnabod, mae gennym agenda ddiwygio hynod uchelgeisiol wedi'i nodi yng nghynllun gweithredu cenhadaeth ein cenedl, ac er y pwysau parhaus ar ein cyllidebau, roeddwn yn falch y llynedd o allu cyhoeddi'r buddsoddiad unigol mwyaf yn addysg broffesiynol y proffesiwn addysgu ers dechrau datganoli. Ac wrth bennu cyflogau athrawon am y tro cyntaf yng Nghymru eleni, rydym wedi gwyro oddi wrth yr argymhellion yn Lloegr trwy sicrhau bod y cyflog cychwynnol i athrawon sy'n dechrau gweithio yng Nghymru yn uwch nag y mae dros y ffin. Bydd hyn yn helpu i hyrwyddo addysgu fel proffesiwn dewisol ar gyfer graddedigion a rhai sy’n newid gyrfa.
I gloi, i'r holl Aelodau sy'n gwneud yr achos dros ariannu ysgolion, rwy’n dweud, 'Wrth gwrs fy mod yn cefnogi cynyddu cyllid i addysg', a chredaf fod fy record hyd yn oed cyn i mi ddod yn rhan o'r Llywodraeth yn brawf o hynny. Ond nid wyf eto wedi gweld cyfrifiad gwariant dilys a chynhwysfawr wedi'i ystyried yn dda gan unrhyw un yn yr wrthblaid sy'n dangos lle byddant yn torri cyllid er mwyn rhoi mwy o arian i fy nghyllideb. Nid oes prawf fod unrhyw wrthblaid yma'n gwneud cyllid i ysgolion yn flaenoriaeth. Ond fel erioed, rwy'n hapus iawn i drafod argymhellion ac awgrymiadau wrth iddynt ddod drwodd. A hoffwn ailadrodd unwaith eto fy mod yn croesawu adroddiad y pwyllgor ac rwy’n gobeithio bod cefnogaeth ar draws y Siambr i'r argymhellion y mae'n eu cynnwys.
Y Cadeirydd, Lynne Neagle, i ymateb i'r ddadl—Lynne Neagle.
The Chair, Lynne Neagle, to reply to the debate—Lynne Neagle.
Thank you, Llywydd, and can I thank all the Members who've contributed to the debate this afternoon and thank the Minister for her contributions? I will try and respond to some of the points that Members made in the debate.
Suzy Davies, obviously, you supported the premise of the report. There was a slight dispute about the amount of money that we've got coming to us in Wales. My understanding is that it is less than you said, but I have been very clear in what I've said to Welsh Government that I want to see the bulk of that going into education, and I hope that that will be the case in the forthcoming budget.
Can I thank Siân Gwenllian for her contribution, in particular the very strong focus on preventative spend? As I said in my speech, investment in education is the most important preventative investment we can make in terms of tackling child poverty and increasing life chances. It has been a regular focus of our budget scrutiny where we have consistently raised concerns, as indeed has the health committee, that there needs to be more focus on prevention. So, I very much welcome the emphasis that you've placed on that, and also—
Diolch i chi, Lywydd, ac a gaf fi ddiolch i'r holl Aelodau sydd wedi cyfrannu at y ddadl y prynhawn yma a diolch i'r Gweinidog am ei chyfraniadau? Fe geisiaf ymateb i rai o'r pwyntiau a wnaeth yr Aelodau yn y ddadl.
Suzy Davies, yn amlwg, fe gefnogoch chi ragosodiad yr adroddiad. Bu ychydig o anghydweld ynghylch faint o arian sydd gennym yn dod i ni yng Nghymru. Fy nealltwriaeth i yw ei fod yn llai nag y dywedoch chi, ond rwyf wedi bod yn glir iawn yn yr hyn a ddywedais wrth Lywodraeth Cymru fy mod am weld y rhan fwyaf ohono'n mynd tuag at addysg, ac rwy’n gobeithio y bydd hynny'n digwydd yn y gyllideb sydd ar y ffordd.
A gaf fi ddiolch i Siân Gwenllian am ei chyfraniad, yn enwedig y ffocws cryf iawn ar wariant ataliol? Fel y dywedais yn fy araith, buddsoddi mewn addysg yw’r buddsoddiad ataliol pwysicaf y gallwn ei wneud o ran mynd i’r afael â thlodi plant a chynyddu cyfleoedd bywyd. Mae wedi bod yn ffocws rheolaidd i’n gwaith craffu ar y gyllideb lle rydym wedi codi pryderon yn gyson, fel yn wir y mae’r pwyllgor iechyd wedi’i wneud, fod angen canolbwyntio mwy ar atal. Felly, rwy'n croesawu'n fawr y pwyslais rydych wedi'i roi ar hynny, a hefyd—
We've heard this afternoon that the review that we have in recommendation 1 won't be completed until next summer. So, do you think that the Welsh Government needs to re-balance the budget in favour of preventative services, including education, in the next budget, without waiting for the results of the review?
Rydym wedi clywed y prynhawn yma na fydd yr adolygiad sydd gennym yn argymhelliad 1 yn cael ei gwblhau tan yr haf nesaf. Felly, a ydych chi'n credu bod angen i Lywodraeth Cymru ail-gydbwyso’r gyllideb o blaid gwasanaethau ataliol, gan gynnwys addysg, yn y gyllideb nesaf, heb aros am ganlyniadau'r adolygiad?
Thank you, Siân. I was going to come on to say that you made the point in your speech that you didn't think the review should be a reason to wait to put more resource into education, and I absolutely agree with that, and I'm sure that the Minister also agrees with that. There is no reason to wait. The purpose of the review, which was also highlighted by Dawn Bowden, is that the committee was looking to place education on a similar footing to health, where we had the Nuffield review, which had a detailed look at the need to spend in health and has been used as the basis for budget setting. So, that would be very valuable, but I certainly don't think there is any need to wait, and we need to see that additional investment now, because we know the pressures that are in the system now.
Can I thank Dawn Bowden for her contribution and for the role that she played in the committee helping to unpick the complexity? It is indeed incredibly complex. There is in fact a whole chapter in the report on how school funding works. I recommend it, it's a page turner. But, it is indicative of just how difficult it is to track the money. We did have a lot of discussion in the committee about austerity as well, and we've tried to come up with a report that recognises the challenges that face the Welsh Government in what comes to the Welsh Government from Westminster, but tries to target where we need to improve.
Diolch, Siân. Roeddwn yn mynd i barhau i ddweud eich bod wedi gwneud y pwynt yn eich araith nad oeddech yn credu y dylai'r adolygiad fod yn rheswm dros aros cyn rhoi mwy o adnoddau tuag at addysg, ac rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â hynny, ac rwy'n siŵr bod y Gweinidog hefyd yn cytuno â hynny. Nid oes unrhyw reswm dros aros. Pwrpas yr adolygiad, a amlygwyd hefyd gan Dawn Bowden, yw fod y pwyllgor yn awyddus i addysg fod ar sail debyg i iechyd, lle cawsom adolygiad Nuffield a edrychodd yn fanwl ar yr angen i wario ym maes iechyd ac sydd wedi wedi'i ddefnyddio fel sail ar gyfer gosod cyllideb. Felly, byddai hynny'n werthfawr iawn, ond yn sicr nid wyf yn credu bod angen aros, ac mae angen i ni weld y buddsoddiad ychwanegol hwnnw yn awr, oherwydd fe wyddom am y pwysau sydd yn y system yn awr.
A gaf fi ddiolch i Dawn Bowden am ei chyfraniad ac am y rôl a chwaraeodd yn y pwyllgor yn helpu i ddatrys y cymhlethdod? Mae'n wir ei fod yn hynod gymhleth. Mewn gwirionedd, ceir pennod gyfan yn yr adroddiad ar sut y mae cyllid ysgolion yn gweithio. Rwy'n ei argymell, mae'n ddeunydd darllen hynod ddiddorol. Ond mae'n arwydd o ba mor anodd yw olrhain yr arian. Cawsom drafodaeth faith yn y pwyllgor am gyni hefyd, ac rydym wedi ceisio llunio adroddiad sy'n cydnabod yr heriau sy'n wynebu Llywodraeth Cymru o ran yr hyn a ddaw i Lywodraeth Cymru o San Steffan, ond mae'n ceisio targedu lle mae angen i ni wella.
Thank you very much, Lynne. It was just a point of clarification, as much as anything, about the review. Our recommendation was about school funding—the sufficiency of school funding—not education in the round. And bearing in mind this split between local government and the education pot centrally, I think that's an important distinction that needs to be just placed on the record.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Lynne. Pwynt o eglurhad yn unig am yr adolygiad ydoedd yn fwy na dim. Roedd ein hargymhelliad yn ymwneud â chyllid ysgolion—digonolrwydd cyllid ysgolion—nid addysg yn gyffredinol. Ac o gofio'r rhaniad rhwng llywodraeth leol a'r pot addysg yn ganolog, rwy'n credu bod hwnnw'n wahaniaeth pwysig y mae angen ei gofnodi.
Yes, absolutely. I think that's a given—that it's about school funding, the cost of running a school, the cost of educating individual pupils and also the cost of the reforms.
Can I thank David Rowlands for his support for the committee report? David raised the issue of direct funding for schools, as did Alun Davies. As the Minister has highlighted, there are very diverse views on that. We had some evidence from unions like the Association of School and College Leaders that said that they would welcome a national funding formula for Wales, but, of course, local government were very opposed to that in the inquiry. What the committee has sought to do is to try and ensure that we have a consistent approach to funding, and that is very much our focus.
Can I thank Alun Davies for his contribution, some of which I've picked up on—also his very strong support for the need for proper funding for additional learning needs? I know that that's something that you're very committed to. That was a very strong theme in the committee's inquiry, but also in our scrutiny of the Bill when it was going through. Stakeholders were saying to us, 'This will only work if it is properly funded', so we are very clear about that.
You also called for ring-fenced funding for schools. I was a member of the school funding committee that met in 2005, some 15 years ago, and we called for there to be protection for school funding. A minimum amount of funding would be—the indicator-based assessment would be the minimum that had to be spent in our schools. That report and the report that followed it—the Bramley review—went into the 'too difficult' box. That's why I make the point that we cannot allow this forthcoming review to go into that box as well.
Can I thank the Minister for her response and for her ongoing engagement with the committee, and for the positive approach that she's taken to the committee's recommendations? I'm very pleased that Luke Sibieta has been appointed. Members will remember that he was engaged with the committee—he did a session with us—and he is a recognised expert. We will continue to follow that work with great interest and hope that it will lead to some very significant findings.
Can I just conclude by thanking everybody who gave evidence to the committee and supported us? Just to reiterate that point that I made, we are going to have to have a grown-up conversation about this across parties, across Government and across local government, because that money needs to come from somewhere. And I hope that we can prioritise our children and young people.
Yn hollol. Rwy'n credu bod hynny wedi'i dderbyn—ei fod yn ymwneud â chyllido ysgolion, cost rhedeg ysgol, cost addysgu disgyblion unigol a chost y diwygiadau hefyd.
A gaf fi ddiolch i David Rowlands am ei gefnogaeth i adroddiad y pwyllgor? Cododd David fater cyllid uniongyrchol i ysgolion, fel y gwnaeth Alun Davies. Fel y nododd y Gweinidog, ceir safbwyntiau amrywiol iawn ar hynny. Cawsom rywfaint o dystiolaeth gan undebau fel y Gymdeithas Arweinwyr Ysgolion a Cholegau a ddywedodd y byddent yn croesawu fformiwla ariannu genedlaethol ar gyfer Cymru, ond wrth gwrs, roedd llywodraeth leol yn wrthwynebus iawn i hynny yn yr ymchwiliad. Yr hyn y mae'r pwyllgor wedi anelu i'w wneud yw ceisio sicrhau bod gennym agwedd gyson at gyllid, a dyna'n sicr yw ein ffocws.
A gaf fi ddiolch i Alun Davies am ei gyfraniad, ac rwyf wedi nodi peth ohono—hefyd ei gefnogaeth gref iawn i'r angen am gyllid priodol ar gyfer anghenion dysgu ychwanegol? Rwy'n gwybod bod hynny'n rhywbeth rydych chi'n ymrwymedig iawn iddo. Roedd honno'n thema gref iawn yn ymchwiliad y pwyllgor, ond hefyd yn ein gwaith craffu ar y Bil pan oedd yn mynd drwodd. Roedd rhanddeiliaid yn dweud wrthym, 'Ni fydd yn gweithio oni chaiff ei ariannu'n iawn', felly rydym yn glir iawn ar hynny.
Fe wnaethoch chi alw hefyd am gyllid wedi'i glustnodi ar gyfer ysgolion. Roeddwn yn aelod o'r pwyllgor cyllido ysgolion a gyfarfu yn 2005, tua 15 mlynedd yn ôl, a galwasom yno am ddiogelu cyllid ysgolion. Lleiafswm o gyllid fyddai—yr asesiad wedi’i seilio ar ddangosyddion fyddai'r lleiafswm y byddai'n rhaid ei wario yn ein hysgolion. Aeth yr adroddiad hwnnw a'r adroddiad a'i dilynodd—adolygiad Bramley—i'r blwch 'rhy anodd'. Dyna pam y gwnaf y pwynt na allwn ganiatáu i'r adolygiad sydd ar y ffordd fynd i'r blwch hwnnw hefyd.
A gaf fi ddiolch i'r Gweinidog am ei hymateb ac am ei hymwneud parhaus â'r pwyllgor, ac am yr agwedd gadarnhaol y mae wedi'i dangos tuag at argymhellion y pwyllgor? Rwy'n falch iawn fod Luke Sibieta wedi'i benodi. Bydd yr Aelodau'n cofio iddo ymgysylltu â'r pwyllgor—fe wnaeth sesiwn gyda ni—ac mae'n arbenigwr cydnabyddedig. Byddwn yn parhau i ddilyn y gwaith hwnnw gyda diddordeb mawr ac yn gobeithio y bydd yn arwain at ganfyddiadau arwyddocaol iawn.
A gaf fi gloi trwy ddiolch i bawb a roddodd dystiolaeth i'r pwyllgor ac a'n cefnogodd? I ailadrodd y pwynt a wneuthum, bydd yn rhaid i ni gael sgwrs aeddfed am hyn ar draws y pleidiau, ar draws y Llywodraeth ac ar draws llywodraeth leol, oherwydd mae angen i'r arian ddod o rywle. Ac rwy'n gobeithio y gallwn flaenoriaethu ein plant a'n pobl ifanc.
Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynnig? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Na, felly derbynnir y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Detholwyd y gwelliannau canlynol: gwelliant 1 yn enw Rebecca Evans, gwelliannau 2, 3, 4, 13, 14 ac 15 yn enw Neil McEvoy, a gwelliannau 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11 a 12 yn enw Rhun ap Iorwerth. Ni ddetholwyd gwelliant 7. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliannau 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 a 7 eu dad-ddethol.
The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Rebecca Evans, amendments 2, 3, 4, 13, 14 and 15 in the name of Neil McEvoy, and amendments 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth. Amendment 7 not selected. If amendment 1 is agreed amendments 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 will be deselected.
Daw hynny â ni at y ddadl nesaf—dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yw honno—ar fynd i'r afael â digartrefedd. A dwi'n galw ar David Melding i wneud y cynnig.
That brings us to our next debate, the Welsh Conservatives' debate on tackling homelessness. I call on David Melding to move the motion.
Cynnig NDM7167 Darren Millar
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:
1. Yn cydnabod nad yw polisïau cyfredol i fynd i'r afael â digartrefedd a chysgu ar y stryd yn cyflawni'r hyn sy'n ofynnol.
2. Yn cymeradwyo'r arferion da sydd i'w gweld yn y sector ac yn croesawu sefydlu Grŵp Gweithredu Digartrefedd Llywodraeth Cymru.
3. Yn nodi:
a) bod 25 o farwolaethau wedi'u nodi ymhlith pobl ddigartref yng Nghymru yn 2018, sy'n gynnydd nodedig o'r 11 o farwolaethau a nodwyd yn 2017;
b) bod 25,937 o bobl wedi profi digartrefedd ledled Cymru yn 2017/18, yn ôl ffigurau gan Shelter Cymru;
c) bod nifer y bobl sy'n cysgu ar y stryd wedi cynyddu 75 y cant rhwng 2012 a 2017, a bod y nifer sy'n cysgu mewn ceir, pebyll ac ar gludiant cyhoeddus wedi cynyddu 50 y cant yn ôl ymchwil gan Crisis a Phrifysgol Heriot-Watt;
4. Yn nodi ymhellach gynllun gweithredu 10 pwynt y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig i fynd i'r afael â digartrefedd: 'Mwy na Lloches yn Unig'.
5. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i benodi tsar digartrefedd, yn ddelfrydol rhywun sydd â phrofiad o fyw yn ddigartref ac sy'n gallu craffu ar gynnydd tuag at roi terfyn ar ddigartrefedd yng Nghymru.
Motion NDM7167 Darren Millar
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
1. Recognises that current policies to tackle homelessness and rough sleeping are falling short of what is required.
2. Commends the good practice that is to be found in the sector and welcomes the establishment of the Welsh Government’s Homelessness Action Group.
3. Notes that:
a) there were 25 identified deaths of homeless people in Wales in 2018, a notable increase from the 11 identified deaths in 2017;
b) 25,937 people experienced homelessness across Wales in 2017/18, according to figures by Shelter Cymru;
c) between 2012 and 2017 the number of people sleeping rough in Wales increased by 75 per cent, and the number sleeping in cars, tents and on public transport increased by 50 per cent according to research by Crisis and Heriot-Watt University;
4. Further notes the Welsh Conservatives 10 point action plan to tackle homelessness: ‘More than a Refuge’;
5. Calls on the Welsh Government to appoint a homelessness tsar, ideally someone who has lived experience of homelessness and who can scrutinise the progress towards ending homelessness in Wales.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Diolch, Llywydd. I move the motion in the name of Darren Millar.
At the heart of this motion is the view that rough-sleeping can be ended as a systematic problem affecting the most vulnerable in our society and that building 40,000 more social homes in the 2020s will go a long way to ending homelessness in general. We believe these are now overriding priorities, and that is why we think the Welsh Government should legislate to make housing a basic human right in Wales.
For me, the purpose of today's debate is that we can place this issue at the top of our agenda, and it's in that spirit that I ask Members that they support our motion, along with amendments 5, 11 and 12 by Plaid Cymru, and amendment 13 in the name of Neil McEvoy.
As our motion states, earlier this month, the Welsh Conservatives launched a 10-point plan, 'More than a Refuge', and I gladly make it available to any Member who requests a copy. These 10 points, which, if they were put into action, would make a substantial difference to the housing crisis in Wales.
Diolch, Lywydd. Rwy'n gwneud y cynnig yn enw Darren Millar.
Wrth wraidd y cynnig hwn mae'r farn y gellir dod â chysgu ar y stryd i ben fel problem systematig sy'n effeithio ar y rhai mwyaf agored i niwed yn ein cymdeithas ac y bydd adeiladu 40,000 yn fwy o gartrefi cymdeithasol yn y 2020au yn mynd yn bell i ddod â digartrefedd i ben yn gyffredinol. Credwn fod y rhain bellach yn flaenoriaethau hollbwysig, a dyna pam y credwn y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru ddeddfu i wneud tai yn hawl ddynol sylfaenol yng Nghymru.
I mi, pwrpas y ddadl heddiw yw y gallwn roi'r mater hwn ar frig ein hagenda, ac yn yr ysbryd hwnnw y gofynnaf i'r Aelodau gefnogi ein cynnig, ynghyd â gwelliannau 5, 11 a 12 gan Blaid Cymru a gwelliant 13 yn enw Neil McEvoy.
Fel y dywed ein cynnig, yn gynharach y mis hwn, lansiodd y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig gynllun 10 pwynt, 'Mwy na Lloches yn Unig', ac rwy'n falch o sicrhau ei fod ar gael i unrhyw Aelod sy'n gofyn am gopi. Pe baent yn cael eu rhoi ar waith, byddai’r 10 pwynt yn gwneud gwahaniaeth sylweddol i'r argyfwng tai yng Nghymru.
Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair.
The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair.
This is a challenging area, Dirprwy Lywydd, and that's why I think we need a cross-party approach if we can achieve it. This area—in fact, I think housing in general, but particularly when we're looking at homelessness and rough-sleeping—is not about knockabout politics; it's about those practical measures that can achieve the objectives we all surely desire. And that's why I did try to draft the motion so that it wasn't too partisan and political, but sought instead to change the tone and, indeed, even in referring to 'More than a Refuge', we just say 'notes the action plan', so that those Members here that would find it a step too far to fully endorse Conservative policy don't need to do so. [Laughter.]
We know that there's going to be a difference in approach to how we address these issues in the Chamber, because we all have various ideas about homelessness, housing and rough-sleeping. But, in general, I think we're all going in the same direction and we want to make this a higher priority, and around that, and some other key policies that I do think are deeply consensual now, we can, I think, get much more pace of action into our efforts to tackle this overriding priority.
We are fully aware indeed, Dirprwy Lywydd, that this problem is not confined to Wales alone, and we will be supporting one of Plaid Cymru's amendments that draws attention to the rise in deaths of homeless people in England. That's a perfectly fair thing and balanced thing to do, and it certainly wasn't my intention in drafting the original motion to not pay due regard to that, but I did want to quote the Welsh figure.
But, as I said, we regrettably are failing to encourage a broad consensus on this occasion. In fact, we have one of the horrors of this Chamber: a Government amendment that deletes all. I do think a bit more generosity could have been offered, because I think around our motion could have been constructed an amended motion that we all agreed on. But I do hold out this approach for the future that we should combine and try to agree common approaches, and that's certainly the spirit in which I will be working in the months and years ahead. I do hope, however, that today's debate will be constructive, because I think the sector is frustrated at the lack of change and, certainly, the pace at which we're going. We still have far too many people falling through the cracks in the system, and some of them fall a very long way indeed.
If I can briefly speak to the action plan, Dirprwy Lywydd, as I said, there aren't easy answers to this problem, and we all know that. But we on this side of the Chamber recognise the need to start thinking radically, because, in many ways, since that documentary in the 1960s, and decade in, decade out since, under all administrations, it must be said, we've had a persistent problem with those at the sharper end of the homelessness crisis, and we do need a radical reappraisal of our policy formation and the priorities we put on this area of public policy. And it is true, up and down the United Kingdom, Governments and administrations in the devolved areas, but cities as well around England, of all political make-ups, are struggling to overcome the issue of homelessness in its various forms.
Our strategy has been the product of months of work from meetings with the sector to discuss ways in which our policy decisions could start to transform things for those most in need. I do welcome the contribution so enthusiastically given by our partners in civic society and they've really helped shape our thinking, and I know that they have a big impact on the Government's thinking and, no doubt, on other parties as well, and we should all pay tribute to the amount of policy work that the various charities do in this areas.
On Monday, I was delighted to visit the Pontypridd Home for Veterans, run by Alabaré charity, and that's just one example of an organisation that seems to come up with a really interesting model in terms of the care they provide there for veterans that have fallen on very bad times and get up to two years help in that home, and then they get supported in the succeeding tenancy by outreach workers from that charity, so that critical stage is also taken on board and they're given that help to sustain them in their progress.
Also, I think many of us went down and at least looked at the bikes that the Royal British Legion had in the Senedd to promote the poppy campaign, and I commend those that got on the bike and tried to cycle the 2 km or whatever in virtual reality, but what most interested me this afternoon was the fact that the Royal British Legion were publicising their best-practice guide for local authorities in terms of supporting the armed forces community with housing in Wales, and it's an excellent document, and I do commend it to Members but also to local authorities—the best-practice guide, the toolkit that it provides, and, again, an example of best practice in the voluntary sector.
Now, in the action plan, as I said, we've talked about the need for greater ambition in our social housing programme and the need for better and more comprehensive data collection. That's another key issue so that we can really map out the extent of the problem. We also touch upon the need to change our society's view of homelessness through greater education of the symptoms and the causes, and we also commit to working with our partners in Westminster to scrap the Vagrancy Act 1824, which is outdated, unpractical, and, for all intents and purposes, self-defeating regarding the very issue it was originally designed to prevent—in Georgian Britain, let's not forget.
One of the main outcomes of the work we did—and the discussions we had with the sector came from the likes of Crisis and Shelter Cymru—was that we need a more holistic approach, and, of course, housing first is probably the best example at scale now of a holistic approach, and that is one that we very much commend. It's not good enough to say that housing is simply the answer to homelessness, because it's a problem that spans across agencies, from health to education, housing to employment. So, we really do need a holistic cross-agency approach, and that is why we chose as the title of our policy 'More than a Refuge'. We reflected on the causes of homelessness, which are complex and overlapping, and I was impressed by the auditor general's analysis in his report earlier this year. He said, and I quote, it's
'much more than putting a roof over people's heads.'
And I think that absolutely does drive to the heart of the problem.
Can I just conclude by saying—? Earlier, I did remark that for 40 to 50 years we've known of this modern scourge in society and we've never quite got to that level of policy response that we really desire, and I think all parties in this Chamber desire. And that's why one of the things we're calling for is a housing tsar—someone that will measure and monitor our progress and hold us accountable for what we're doing, and I think that homelessness tsar should ideally be someone who's had lived experience of homelessness. We've all met people that have been in that situation. They come from all walks of life and we've been really impressed by their skill sets and their potential once they got back into settled accommodation, and I'm sure there's someone in Wales that could be our partner and be an excellent housing tsar, so that we really do start to measure real progress and keep that pace up. So, that person, that tsar, being a champion for the vulnerable would be there urging Government on throughout the 2020s to achieve the targets that I have referred to.
So, I do conclude by saying to the Government, despite what you've done in moving a 'delete all' amendment, we do want to be genuinely part of the national conversation that now is required, so that we can lead, perhaps, in Britain, in ending the scourge of homelessness in our country. Thank you.
Mae hwn yn faes heriol, Ddirprwy Lywydd, a dyna pam y credaf fod angen dull trawsbleidiol o weithredu os gallwn gyflawni hynny. Nid oes a wnelo'r maes hwn—tai yn gyffredinol, rwy'n credu, ond yn enwedig pan fyddwn yn edrych ar ddigartrefedd a chysgu ar y stryd—â gwleidyddiaeth gystadleuol; mae'n ymwneud â'r mesurau ymarferol a all gyflawni'r amcanion y mae pawb ohonom yn sicr yn eu dymuno. A dyna pam y ceisiais ddrafftio’r cynnig fel nad oedd yn rhy bleidiol a gwleidyddol, ond yn hytrach, ceisiais newid y cywair ac yn wir, hyd yn oed wrth gyfeirio at 'Mwy na Lloches yn Unig', rydym yn dweud 'yn nodi'r cynllun gweithredu', fel nad oes angen i'r Aelodau yma a fyddai'n teimlo ei fod gam yn rhy bell i gymeradwyo polisi Ceidwadol yn llawn orfod gwneud hynny. [Chwerthin.]
Fe wyddom y bydd gwahaniaeth o ran sut yr awn i'r afael â'r materion hyn yn y Siambr, oherwydd mae gan bob un ohonom syniadau amrywiol ynglŷn â digartrefedd, tai a chysgu ar y stryd. Ond yn gyffredinol, rwy'n credu ein bod i gyd yn mynd i'r un cyfeiriad ac rydym am wneud hyn yn flaenoriaeth uwch ac o gwmpas hynny, a pholisïau allweddol eraill y credaf eu bod yn rhai cydsyniol iawn yn awr, gallwn gyflymu'r camau gweithredu lawer mwy yn ein hymdrechion i fynd i'r afael â'r flaenoriaeth hollbwysig hon.
Rydym yn gwbl ymwybodol yn wir, Ddirprwy Lywydd, nad yw'r broblem hon wedi'i chyfyngu i Gymru yn unig, a byddwn yn cefnogi un o welliannau Plaid Cymru sy'n tynnu sylw at y cynnydd ym marwolaethau pobl ddigartref yn Lloegr. Mae hynny'n beth hollol deg a chytbwys i'w wneud, ac yn sicr nid fy mwriad oedd wrth ddrafftio'r cynnig gwreiddiol oedd peidio â rhoi sylw dyledus i hynny, ond roeddwn eisiau dyfynnu’r ffigur ar gyfer Cymru.
Ond fel y dywedais, yn anffodus rydym yn methu annog consensws eang ar yr achlysur hwn. Mewn gwirionedd, mae gennym un o erchyllterau'r Siambr hon: gwelliant gan y Llywodraeth sy'n dileu popeth. Rwy'n credu y gellid bod wedi cynnig ychydig mwy o garedigrwydd, oherwydd credaf y gellid bod wedi llunio cynnig diwygiedig roeddem i gyd yn cytuno arno o amgylch ein cynnig ni. Ond rwy'n cynnig y dull hwn ar gyfer y dyfodol, y dylem uno a cheisio cytuno ar ddulliau cyffredin, a dyna’n sicr yw’r ysbryd y byddaf yn gweithio ynddo yn ystod y misoedd a'r blynyddoedd i ddod. Rwy'n gobeithio, fodd bynnag, y bydd y ddadl heddiw yn adeiladol, oherwydd rwy'n credu bod y sector yn rhwystredig ynglŷn â’r diffyg newid ac yn sicr, ynglŷn â pha mor gyflym rydym yn mynd. Mae gennym lawer gormod o bobl o hyd yn cwympo rhwng y craciau yn y system, ac mae rhai ohonynt yn cwympo'n bell iawn wir.
Os caf siarad yn fyr am y cynllun gweithredu, Ddirprwy Lywydd, fel y dywedais, nid oes atebion hawdd i'r broblem hon, ac rydym i gyd yn gwybod hynny. Ond rydym ni ar yr ochr hon i'r Siambr yn cydnabod yr angen i ddechrau meddwl yn radical oherwydd, mewn sawl ffordd, ers y rhaglen ddogfen honno yn y 1960au, a ddegawd ar ôl degawd ers hynny o dan yr holl weinyddiaethau, mae’n rhaid dweud, rydym wedi wynebu problem barhaus gyda'r rhai ar y pen gwaethaf i’r argyfwng digartrefedd, ac mae angen i ni ail-werthuso yn radical ein dull o lunio polisi a'r blaenoriaethau a roddwn i’r maes hwn o bolisi cyhoeddus. Ac mae'n wir ledled y Deyrnas Unedig, mae Llywodraethau a gweinyddiaethau yn yr ardaloedd datganoledig, ond yn y dinasoedd o gwmpas Lloegr yn ogystal, o bob cyfansoddiad gwleidyddol, yn ei chael hi'n anodd goresgyn problem digartrefedd ar ei wahanol weddau.
Mae ein strategaeth wedi bod yn gynnyrch misoedd o waith o gyfarfodydd gyda'r sector i drafod ffyrdd y gallai ein penderfyniadau polisi ddechrau trawsnewid pethau i'r rhai mwyaf anghenus. Rwy'n croesawu'r cyfraniad a roddwyd mor frwd gan ein partneriaid yn y gymdeithas ddinesig ac maent wedi helpu o ddifrif i lunio ein ffordd o feddwl, a gwn eu bod yn effeithio’n fawr ar feddylfryd y Llywodraeth ac yn ddiau, ar bleidiau eraill hefyd, a dylem dalu teyrnged i’r holl waith polisi y mae'r gwahanol elusennau yn ei wneud yn y meysydd hyn.
Ddydd Llun, roeddwn yn falch iawn o ymweld â Cartrefi i Gyn-filwyr ym Mhontypridd, sy'n cael ei redeg gan elusen Alabaré, a dyna un enghraifft yn unig o sefydliad sy'n ymddangos fel pe bai'n cynnig model diddorol iawn o ran y gofal y maent yn ei ddarparu yno i gyn-filwyr sydd wedi wynebu amser caled iawn ac fe gânt hyd at ddwy flynedd o help yn y cartref hwnnw, ac yna cânt gefnogaeth yn y denantiaeth sy’n dilyn gan weithwyr allgymorth o'r elusen, fel bod y cyfnod allweddol hwnnw'n cael ei ystyried hefyd a rhoddir y cymorth hwnnw iddynt i’w helpu i’w cynnal yn eu cynnydd.
Hefyd, rwy'n credu bod llawer ohonom wedi mynd i lawr ac o leiaf wedi edrych ar y beiciau a oedd gan y Lleng Brydeinig Frenhinol yn y Senedd i hyrwyddo ymgyrch y pabi, ac rwy'n canmol y rhai a aeth ar y beic a cheisio beicio'r 2 km neu beth bynnag ar daith rithwir, ond yr hyn a wnaeth fy niddori fwyaf y prynhawn yma oedd y ffaith bod y Lleng Brydeinig Frenhinol yn rhoi cyhoeddusrwydd i'w canllawiau arferion gorau ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol o ran cefnogi cymuned y lluoedd arfog gyda thai yng Nghymru, ac mae'n ddogfen ragorol, ac rwy'n ei chymeradwyo i’r Aelodau ond hefyd i awdurdodau lleol—y canllawiau arferion gorau, y pecyn cymorth y mae'n ei ddarparu, ac unwaith eto, enghraifft o ymarfer gorau yn y sector gwirfoddol.
Nawr, yn y cynllun gweithredu, fel y dywedais, rydym wedi siarad am yr angen am fwy o uchelgais yn ein rhaglen tai cymdeithasol a'r angen i gasglu data'n well ac yn fwy cynhwysfawr. Dyna fater allweddol arall fel y gallwn fynd ati o ddifrif i fapio graddau'r broblem. Rydym hefyd yn cyffwrdd â'r angen i newid barn ein cymdeithas am ddigartrefedd trwy fwy o addysg am y symptomau a'r achosion ac rydym hefyd yn ymrwymo i weithio gyda'n partneriaid yn San Steffan i gael gwared ar Ddeddf Crwydradaeth 1824, sydd wedi dyddio, yn anymarferol, ac i bob pwrpas yn hunandrechol o ran yr union fater y cafodd ei chynllunio’n wreiddiol i'w atal—ym Mhrydain yr oes Sioraidd, gadewch inni beidio ag anghofio.
Un o brif ganlyniadau'r gwaith a wnaethom—a daeth y trafodaethau a gawsom gyda'r sector gan rai fel Crisis a Shelter Cymru—oedd fod angen dull mwy cyfannol arnom, ac wrth gwrs, mae'n debyg mai tai yn gyntaf yw'r enghraifft fawr orau bellach o ddull cyfannol, a dyna un enghraifft rydym yn ei chymeradwyo'n fawr. Nid yw'n ddigon da dweud mai tai yn syml yw'r ateb i ddigartrefedd oherwydd mae'n broblem sy'n rhychwantu asiantaethau, o iechyd i addysg, tai i gyflogaeth. Felly, mae gwir angen dull gweithredu trawsasiantaethol cyfannol arnom, a dyna pam y gwnaethom ddewis 'Mwy na Lloches yn Unig' yn deitl i’n polisi. Ystyriwyd achosion digartrefedd, sy'n gymhleth ac yn gorgyffwrdd, a gwnaeth dadansoddiad yr archwilydd cyffredinol yn ei adroddiad yn gynharach eleni argraff arnaf. Meddai, ac rwy'n dyfynnu,
Mae'n llawer mwy na rhoi to dros bennau pobl yn unig.
Ac rwy'n credu bod hynny'n bendant yn mynd i wraidd y broblem.
A gaf fi gloi trwy ddweud—? Yn gynharach, nodais ein bod yn gyfarwydd â’r pla modern hwn yn ein cymdeithas ers 40 i 50 mlynedd ac nid ydym erioed wedi cyrraedd y lefel o ymateb polisi rydym yn dyheu amdano, ac y mae pob plaid yn y Siambr yn dyheu amdano rwy'n credu. A dyna pam mai un o'r pethau y galwn amdano yw tsar tai—rhywun a fydd yn mesur ac yn monitro ein cynnydd ac yn ein dwyn i gyfrif am yr hyn a wnawn, a chredaf, yn ddelfrydol, y dylai tsar digartrefedd fod yn rhywun sydd wedi cael profiad byw o fod yn ddigartref. Rydym i gyd wedi cyfarfod â phobl sydd wedi bod yn y sefyllfa honno. Maent yn dod o bob cefndir ac mae eu setiau sgiliau a'u potensial wedi creu argraff fawr arnom ar ôl iddynt ddychwelyd i lety sefydlog, ac rwy'n siŵr bod rhywun yng Nghymru a allai fod yn bartner inni a bod yn tsar tai rhagorol i ni allu dechrau mesur cynnydd go iawn a chynnal y cyflymder. Gallai'r cyfryw unigolyn, y tsar, ddadlau ar ran y bobl agored i niwed ac annog y Llywodraeth drwy gydol y 2020au i gyflawni'r targedau y cyfeiriais atynt.
Felly, rwy’n gorffen trwy ddweud wrth y Llywodraeth, er gwaethaf yr hyn a wnaethoch drwy gynnig gwelliant 'dileu popeth', rydym am fod yn rhan go iawn o'r sgwrs genedlaethol sydd ei hangen yn awr, fel y gallwn arwain, efallai, ym Mhrydain, a rhoi diwedd ar bla digartrefedd yn ein gwlad. Diolch.
Thank you. I have selected 14 amendments to the motion. In accordance with Standing Order 12.23, I have not selected amendment 7. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2 to 6 will be deselected, and I call on the Minister for Housing and Local Government to move amendment 1, formally, tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans.
Diolch yn fawr. Rwyf wedi dethol 14 gwelliant i'r cynnig. Yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.23, nid wyf wedi dethol gwelliant 7. Os cytunir ar welliant 1, bydd gwelliannau 2 i 6 yn cael eu dad-ddethol, a galwaf ar y Gweinidog Tai a Llywodraeth Leol i gynnig gwelliant 1, a gyflwynwyd yn ffurfiol yn enw Rebecca Evans.
Gwelliant 1—Rebecca Evans
Dileu popeth a rhoi yn ei le:
1. Yn cydnabod bod yna fwy y gellir ei wneud bob amser i fynd i'r afael â digartrefedd.
2. Yn cymeradwyo'r arfer da a welir yn y sector tai mewn perthynas â digartrefedd, gan gynnwys y trefniadau partneriaeth sy'n cefnogi gwaith Tai yn Gyntaf Llywodraeth Cymru.
3. Yn croesawu sefydlu Grŵp Gweithredu Llywodraeth Cymru ar Ddigartrefedd a ddatblygwyd mewn partneriaeth â'r sector, gan gynnwys elusennau digartrefedd, ac yn croesawu ei adroddiad cyntaf.
4. Yn nodi:
a) Bod un person digartref sy'n marw yn drasiedi.
b) Yr effaith y mae cyni a diwygiadau i'r system les wedi'i chael ar y niferoedd sy'n ddigartref.
5. Yn nodi ymhellach Strategaeth Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer Atal a Rhoi Diwedd ar Ddigartrefedd ac ymgyrch adduned y sector cyhoeddus.
Amendment 1—Rebecca Evans
Delete all and replace with:
1. Recognises that there is always more that can be done to tackle homelessness.
2. Commends the good practice that is to be found in the housing sector in relation to homelessness including the partnership work that supports the delivery of the Welsh Government’s Housing First approach.
3. Welcomes the establishment and the first report of the Welsh Government’s Homelessness Action Group developed in partnership with the sector, including homelessness charities.
4. Notes:
a) That one homeless death is a tragedy.
b) The impact that austerity and welfare reform has had on the numbers of people experiencing homelessness.
5. Further notes the Welsh Government’s Strategy for Preventing and Ending Homelessness and public sector pledge campaign.
Cynigiwyd gwelliant 1.
Amendment 1 moved.
Formally.
Yn ffurfiol.
Formally. Thank you. Can I call on Neil McEvoy to move amendments 2, 3, 4, 13, 14 and 15, tabled in his name?
Yn ffurfiol. Diolch. A gaf fi alw ar Neil McEvoy i gynnig gwelliannau 2, 3, 4, 13, 14 a 15, a gyflwynwyd yn ei enw?
Gwelliant 2—Neil McEvoy
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ôl pwynt 1 ac ailrifo yn unol â hynny:
Yn credu bod methiant holl Lywodraethau Cymru dros yr 20 mlynedd diwethaf i ddatrys digartrefedd yng Nghymru yn warth cenedlaethol.
Amendment 2—Neil McEvoy
Add as new point after point 1 and renumber accordingly:
Believes that the failure of all Welsh Governments over the past 20 years to resolve homelessness in Wales is a national disgrace.
Gwelliant 3—Neil McEvoy
Dileu pwynt 2.
Amendment 3—Neil McEvoy
Delete point 2.
Gwelliant 4—Neil McEvoy
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ôl pwynt 2 ac ailrifo yn unol â hynny:
Yn credu bod dyblygu gwasanaethau, cyflogau uchel uwch reolwyr yn y trydydd sector, ynghyd â thoriadau i lywodraeth leol yng Nghymru yn gwneud sefyllfa lle mae digartrefedd eisoes yn wael yn waeth.
Amendment 4—Neil McEvoy
Add as new point after point 2 and renumber accordingly:
Believes that duplication of service, inflated salaries amongst senior managers in the third sector, combined with cuts to local government in Wales is making an already bad homelessness situation worse.
Gwelliant 13—Neil McEvoy
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i ddatgan argyfwng digartrefedd ac i gyflwyno polisïau tai yn gyntaf i dynnu pobl oddi ar y strydoedd.
Amendment 13—Neil McEvoy
Add as new point at end of motion:
Calls on the Welsh Government to declare a homelessness emergency and put forward housing first policies to take people off the streets.
Gwelliant 14—Neil McEvoy
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i flaenoriaethu anghenion lleol wrth ymdrin â digartrefedd.
Amendment 14—Neil McEvoy
Add as new point at end of motion:
Calls on the Welsh Government to prioritise local need in dealing with homelessness.
Gwelliant 15—Neil McEvoy
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i gychwyn adolygiad bon a brig o'r holl arian cyhoeddus a gaiff ei wario yn y sector tai er mwyn mynd i'r afael â digartrefedd.
Amendment 15—Neil McEvoy
Add as new point at end of motion:
Calls on the Welsh Government to instigate a root and branch review of all public money spent in the housing sector in order to tackle homelessness.
Cynigiwyd gwelliannau 2, 3, 4, 13, 14 a 15.
Amendments 2, 3, 4, 13, 14 and 15 moved.
Yes. Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Housing really is one of the challenges of our time, and it's a challenge that the Welsh Government is failing to meet—failing badly to meet. I remain strongly of the opinion that home ownership is essential for wealth. It's really hard to escape poverty if you don't own a property. So, it's regrettable that Assembly Members here—some of whom own up to three properties with their partners—have voted to stop working-class people even owning just one. And that's exactly the sort of 'do as I say and not do as I do' attitude from the plastic left, and absolutely hypocritical—absolutely.
Also, there's a growing number of people in Wales with no roof over their head at all, and, if people don't believe there is a homeless crisis, then walk through the streets of Cardiff, of Pontypridd, and virtually any town or city in Wales and I'll show you where it is. That's why I've introduced a number of amendments today.
Amendment 2 notes the failure of Welsh Governments to deal with homelessness over the past 20 years, and it's a national disgrace. Amendment 4 recognises that the duplication of service, inflated salaries amongst senior managers in the third sector, combined with cuts to local government, is making an already bad situation worse.
Amendment 13 insists that the Welsh Government should declare a homelessness emergency and put forward housing first policies to take people off the streets, because in Cardiff, for example, that is simply not happening. And the option of floor space in a hostel is deeply unattractive to most homeless people I speak to.
Amendment 14 is an acknowledgement that local need should be prioritised when dealing with homelessness. Amendment 15 calls for the Welsh Government to instigate a root-and-branch review of all public money spent in housing and spent dealing with homelessness because, let's be honest, the outlandish and huge salaries of chief executives in the third sector—. There's an astonishing array of organisations where people are earning huge amounts of money that I don't believe they would get in the private sector. And, to be perfectly frank, it's not in the interests of those people to solve the housing and homelessness crisis, because they're doing too well with the situation as it is.
I hope you can support these amendments today and I hope that this institution, ideally through a Government, can bring an end to the homeless crisis and housing crisis that we have in Wales, because that is the job of us elected here. Diolch yn fawr.
Ie. Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Mae tai yn bendant yn un o heriau ein hoes, ac mae'n her y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn methu mynd i’r afael â hi—yn methu’n wael â mynd i’r afael â hi. Rwy’n dal yn gadarn o’r farn fod perchentyaeth yn hanfodol ar gyfer cyfoeth. Mae'n anodd iawn dianc rhag tlodi os nad ydych yn berchen ar eiddo. Felly, mae'n siomedig fod Aelodau Cynulliad yma—gyda rhai ohonynt yn berchen ar hyd at dri eiddo gyda'u partneriaid—wedi pleidleisio dros atal pobl ddosbarth gweithiol rhag bod yn berchen ar un hyd yn oed. A dyna'r union fath o agwedd 'gwneud fel rwy'n dweud ac nid fel rwy’n gwneud' a geir gan y chwith plastig, ac mae'n gwbl ragrithiol.
Hefyd, mae yna nifer gynyddol o bobl yng Nghymru heb do uwch eu pennau o gwbl, ac os nad yw pobl yn credu bod yna argyfwng digartrefedd, cerddwch trwy strydoedd Caerdydd, Pontypridd a bron unrhyw dref neu ddinas yng Nghymru, ac fe ddangosaf i chi ble mae’r argyfwng hwnnw. Dyna pam y cyflwynais nifer o welliannau heddiw.
Mae gwelliant 2 yn nodi methiant Llywodraethau Cymru i ymdrin â digartrefedd dros yr 20 mlynedd diwethaf, ac mae'n warth cenedlaethol. Mae gwelliant 4 yn cydnabod bod dyblygu gwasanaethau, cyflogau uchel uwch reolwyr yn y trydydd sector, ynghyd â thoriadau i lywodraeth leol, yn gwaethygu sefyllfa sydd eisoes yn wael.
Mae gwelliant 13 yn mynnu y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru ddatgan argyfwng digartrefedd a chyflwyno polisïau tai yn gyntaf i dynnu pobl oddi ar y strydoedd oherwydd yng Nghaerdydd, er enghraifft, nid yw hynny'n digwydd. Ac mae'r opsiwn o ddarn o lawr mewn hostel yn anneniadol iawn i'r mwyafrif o bobl ddigartref y byddaf yn siarad â hwy.
Mae gwelliant 14 yn gydnabyddiaeth y dylid blaenoriaethu angen lleol wrth ymdrin â digartrefedd. Mae gwelliant 15 yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i gychwyn adolygiad bôn a brig o’r holl arian cyhoeddus a werir yn y sector tai ac a werir yn ymdrin â digartrefedd oherwydd, gadewch inni fod yn onest, mae cyflogau gwarthus ac enfawr prif weithredwyr yn y trydydd sector—. Mae yna amrywiaeth syfrdanol o sefydliadau lle mae pobl yn ennill symiau enfawr o arian nad wyf yn credu y byddent yn eu cael yn y sector preifat. Ac i fod yn berffaith onest, nid yw o fudd i’r bobl hynny ddatrys yr argyfwng tai a digartrefedd oherwydd eu bod yn gwneud yn rhy dda gyda'r sefyllfa fel y mae.
Gobeithio y gallwch gefnogi’r gwelliannau hyn heddiw a gobeithio y gall y sefydliad hwn, yn ddelfrydol trwy Lywodraeth, roi diwedd ar argyfwng digartrefedd a’r argyfwng tai sydd gennym yng Nghymru, oherwydd dyna yw gwaith y rheini ohonom a etholwyd i’r lle hwn. Diolch yn fawr.
Thank you. Can I call on Leanne Wood to move amendments 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12, tabled in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth?
Diolch. A gaf fi alw ar Leanne Wood i gynnig gwelliannau 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11 a 12, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rhun ap Iorwerth?
Gwelliant 5—Rhun ap Iorwerth
Cynnwys is-bwynt newydd ar ddiwedd pwynt 3:
'Mae'r tueddiadau hyn wedi'u nodi yn Lloegr, lle mae hefyd gynnydd wedi bod yn nifer y marwolaethau ymysg y rhai sy'n cysgu ar y stryd. '
Amendment 5—Rhun ap Iorwerth
Insert as new sub-point at end of point 3:
'these trends have been noted in England, which has also experienced a rise in the number of deaths of rough sleepers.'
Gwelliant 6—Rhun ap Iorwerth
Dileu pwyntiau 4 a 5.
Amendment 6—Rhun ap Iorwerth
Delete points 4 and 5.
Gwelliant 8—Rhun ap Iorwerth
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
Yn cydnabod bod toriadau Llywodraeth y DU i nawdd cymdeithasol wedi cyfrannu at y cynnydd mewn digartrefedd, fel y rhagwelodd y sector fyddai'n digwydd.
Amendment 8—Rhun ap Iorwerth
Add as new point at end of motion:
Recognises that the UK Government’s cuts to social security have contributed towards the increase in homelessness, as was predicted to happen by the sector.
Gwelliant 9—Rhun ap Iorwerth
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
Yn gresynu na chafodd angen blaenoriaethol ei ddileu'n raddol er mwyn gwneud lle i ddyletswydd gyffredinol i sicrhau llety diogel yn ystod Deddf Tai (Cymru) 2014, ac yn credu bod hwn yn gyfle a gollwyd.
Amendment 9—Rhun ap Iorwerth
Add as new point at end of motion:
Regrets that priority need wasn’t phased out in favour of a general duty to secure safe accommodation during the Housing (Wales) Act 2014, and believes this was a missed opportunity.
Gwelliant 10—Rhun ap Iorwerth
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
Yn galw ar Lywodraeth y DU i fabwysiadu argymhellion yr adroddiad Crisis ar roi terfyn ar ddigartrefedd sy'n berthnasol i feysydd polisi sydd heb eu datganoli, ac yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i weithredu argymhellion yr adroddiad argyfwng sy'n berthnasol i'w feysydd cyfrifoldeb.
Amendment 10—Rhun ap Iorwerth
Add as new point at end of motion:
Calls on the UK Government to adopt the recommendations of the Crisis report on ending homelessness that apply to non-devolved policy areas, and calls on the Welsh Government to implement the recommendations of the crisis report that apply to its areas of responsibility.
Gwelliant 11—Rhun ap Iorwerth
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
Sicrhau bod Deddf Crwydradaeth 1824 yn cael ei datgymhwyso'n weithredol ym mhob un o ardaloedd yr heddlu yng Nghymru er mwyn osgoi gwneud pobl ddigartref yn droseddwyr am gysgu allan a chardota.
Amendment 11—Rhun ap Iorwerth
Add as new point at end of motion:
Ensure that the Vagrancy Act 1824 is operationally disapplied in all police force areas in Wales in order to avoid criminalising homeless people for rough-sleeping and begging.
Gwelliant 12—Rhun ap Iorwerth
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
Yn ogystal â darparu tai, yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau bod gwasanaethau'n cael eu darparu'n briodol i bobl sydd mewn perygl o fod yn ddigartref, fel pobl â phroblemau iechyd meddwl, anableddau dysgu, defnyddwyr sylweddau problematig, pobl ag ADHD ac anhwylderau niwroddatblygiadol, carcharorion, cyn-filwyr, goroeswyr cam-drin rhywiol yn ystod plentyndod a goroeswyr cam-drin domestig a'r rhai sydd wedi cael profiadau niweidiol yn ystod plentyndod.
Amendment 12—Rhun ap Iorwerth
Add as new point at end of motion:
As well as providing housing, calls on the Welsh Government to also ensure proper service provision for people at risk of homelessness, such as people with mental health problems, learning disabilities, problematic substance users, people with ADHD and neurodevelopmental disorders, prisoners, veterans, childhood sexual abuse and domestic abuse survivors and those with adverse childhood experiences.
Cynigiwyd gwelliannau 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11 a 12.
Amendments 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 moved.
Diolch, Llywydd. I'm pleased to be taking part in this debate, which, I have to say, is an unusual one for the party that's tabled it, and I'm left wondering if they'll be publishing a policy pamphlet setting out how to fix the problems of universal credit next month.
We've tabled a number of amendments to this motion, some of which seek to place the crisis of homelessness in the proper context of social security cuts and wider austerity that has eliminated many of the services that previously provided a safety net. But I want to focus mainly on two of the amendments that we've tabled this afternoon. The first is amendment 12, calling on the Welsh Government to ensure proper service provision for people most at risk of homelessness. And I'd like to draw the attention of Members to the recent investigation by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism that has found that 32,000 households in Wales and England have been abandoned by local authorities because of, often, minor mistakes in the application process—mistakes as minor as missing an e-mail, or not responding to an undelivered letter. Applicants in this position are being classed as unco-operative, and therefore they have any support withdrawn or not provided. Now, anyone who's worked in the sector knows how gate keeping can be a huge problem—that, despite all the laws and the funding for services in place, a local authority officer can ignore these and deny a person support for reasons that include prejudice and a lack of understanding. I know the Minister is going to point to recent guidance issued to housing professionals on helping people with autism spectrum disorder, which identifies how people with ASD have been labelled as unco-operative. But more than this needs to be done, and, for a start, we have to ensure that the advice services are properly funded.
But we have to be honest. We need more understanding from officials and this form of negative, judgmental and punitive gate keeping has to be considered as gross misconduct. I wonder whether Boris Johnson had the universal credit rules in mind when he refused to sign the letter asking for an extension to the Brexit deadline; I wonder whether he was assuming that the EU would regard it in the same way as the Department for Work and Pensions regard an application for universal credit and turn it down on the grounds that it wasn't signed.
Amendment 11 asks the Welsh Government to join us in campaigning for the abolition of the Vagrancy Act. It cannot be justified that we criminalise poverty, and, instead of using the criminal justice system in this manner, Plaid Cymru would prefer to support people. So, I'd like to ask the Minister: would you be prepared to instruct your own police and crime commissioners to do what Plaid Cymru police and crime commissioners have done and support the revocation of the Vagrancy Act and for the police not to use those powers? I would imagine that there are some Tories who may well now be regretting the creation of those political police and crime commissioner posts now that they are undermining Tory policy.
Now, to conclude, Dirprwy Lywydd, it's important that we realise that ending homelessness is within our grasp and to not do so is a political choice. Crisis produced a comprehensive report showing us how to end homelessness last year, and it contains clear recommendations for the Welsh Government, which include legislative changes. So, my message is this: we have to stop talking now and we must get on with implementing those recommendations in full. Diolch.
Diolch, Lywydd. Rwy'n falch o gymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon, sydd, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud, yn un anghyffredin i'r blaid sydd wedi'i chyflwyno, ac rwy’n meddwl tybed a fyddant yn cyhoeddi pamffled polisi yn nodi sut i ddatrys problemau credyd cynhwysol y mis nesaf.
Rydym wedi cyflwyno nifer o welliannau i'r cynnig hwn, ac mae rhai ohonynt yn ceisio gosod argyfwng digartrefedd yn y cyd-destun cywir—toriadau nawdd cymdeithasol a chyni ehangach sydd wedi dileu llawer o'r gwasanaethau a arferai ddarparu rhwyd ddiogelwch. Ond hoffwn ganolbwyntio'n bennaf ar ddau o'r gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd gennym y prynhawn yma. Y cyntaf yw gwelliant 12, sy'n galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau gwasanaeth priodol i'r bobl sydd fwyaf mewn perygl o fod yn ddigartref. A hoffwn dynnu sylw’r Aelodau at yr ymchwiliad diweddar gan y Biwro Newyddiaduraeth Ymchwiliol a ddarganfu fod awdurdodau lleol wedi troi cefn ar 32,000 o aelwydydd yng Nghymru a Lloegr oherwydd mân gamgymeriadau, yn aml, yn y broses ymgeisio—camgymeriadau mor fach â cholli e-bost, neu fethu ymateb i lythyr na chafodd ei ddosbarthu. Caiff ymgeiswyr yn y sefyllfa hon eu categoreiddio fel rhai anghydweithredol, ac felly, bydd unrhyw gymorth a gânt yn cael ei dynnu'n ôl neu ni chaiff ei ddarparu. Nawr, bydd unrhyw un sydd wedi gweithio yn y sector yn gwybod sut y gall porthgadw fod yn broblem enfawr—er gwaethaf yr holl ddeddfau a chyllid ar gyfer gwasanaethau, gall swyddog awdurdod lleol anwybyddu'r rhain a gwadu cymorth i berson am resymau sy'n cynnwys rhagfarn a diffyg dealltwriaeth. Rwy'n gwybod bod y Gweinidog yn mynd i dynnu sylw at ganllawiau diweddar a roddwyd i weithwyr tai proffesiynol ar helpu pobl ag anhwylder sbectrwm awtistiaeth, sy'n nodi sut y mae pobl ag anhwylder sbectrwm awtistiaeth wedi cael eu labelu fel rhai anghydweithredol. Ond mae angen gwneud mwy na hyn, ac i ddechrau, mae'n rhaid i ni sicrhau bod y gwasanaethau cynghori'n cael eu hariannu'n iawn.
Ond mae'n rhaid i ni fod yn onest. Mae angen mwy o ddealltwriaeth gan swyddogion ac mae'n rhaid ystyried y math hwn o borthgadw negyddol, beirniadol a chosbol yn gamymddwyn difrifol. Tybed a oedd gan Boris Johnson y rheolau credyd cynhwysol mewn golwg pan wrthododd lofnodi'r llythyr yn gofyn am estyniad i ddyddiad cau Brexit; tybed a oedd yn rhagdybio y byddai'r UE yn ei ystyried yn yr un modd ag y mae'r Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau yn ystyried cais am gredyd cynhwysol ac yn ei wrthod ar y sail na chafodd ei lofnodi.
Mae gwelliant 11 yn gofyn i Lywodraeth Cymru ymuno â ni i ymgyrchu dros ddileu’r Ddeddf Crwydradaeth. Ni ellir cyfiawnhau ein bod yn troseddoli tlodi, ac yn lle defnyddio’r system cyfiawnder troseddol yn y modd hwn, byddai’n well gan Blaid Cymru gefnogi pobl. Felly, hoffwn ofyn i'r Gweinidog, a fyddech chi'n barod i gyfarwyddo eich comisiynwyr heddlu a throseddu eich hun i wneud yr hyn y mae comisiynwyr heddlu a throseddu Plaid Cymru wedi'i wneud a chefnogi dirymu Deddf Crwydradaeth ac i'r heddlu beidio â defnyddio'r pwerau hynny? Buaswn yn dychmygu bod yna rai Torïaid a allai fod yn difaru creu swyddi gwleidyddol y comisiynwyr heddlu a throseddu gan eu bod bellach yn tanseilio polisïau Torïaidd.
Nawr, i gloi, Ddirprwy Lywydd, mae'n bwysig ein bod yn sylweddoli bod rhoi diwedd ar ddigartrefedd yn rhywbeth sydd o fewn ein gallu a bod peidio â'i wneud yn ddewis gwleidyddol. Cynhyrchodd Crisis adroddiad cynhwysfawr yn dangos i ni sut i ddod â digartrefedd i ben y llynedd, ac mae'n cynnwys argymhellion clir ar gyfer Llywodraeth Cymru, sy'n cynnwys newidiadau deddfwriaethol. Felly, fy neges yw fod yn rhaid i ni roi'r gorau i siarad yn awr a bwrw ymlaen â gweithredu'r argymhellion hynny'n llawn. Diolch.
I genuinely think it was interesting to hear from Leanne about the experiences of individuals who are being refused successful applications on the basis of minor amendments. These are the sorts of things that really affect policy more widely, and where we try and distinguish between the difference between good ideas— hopefully across party—and the delivery of good ideas badly.
I was actually heartened to hear from the First Minister last week that he'd read our 10-point plan and had no sense at all of not being willing to take good ideas from wherever they come and that he felt that housing is an issue that is largely shared across the floor of this Assembly as a priority for the people we represent. And, actually, I do think that's true. It doesn't mean that we can't scrutinise apparent failures of policy. I think the figures in the motion suggest that the 2014 housing Act hasn't really had the effect that might have been hoped for. But, without a statutory right to housing, as we ask for, I think it's a big ask for any legislation to solve the problems of homelessness, not least because of the operational delivery problems that you've spoken of, Leanne.
Credaf yn wirioneddol ei bod yn ddiddorol clywed gan Leanne am brofiadau unigolion y gwrthodir eu ceisiadau llwyddiannus ar sail mân newidiadau. Dyma'r mathau o bethau sydd o ddifrif yn effeithio ar bolisi yn ehangach, a phan geisiwn wahaniaethu rhwng syniadau da—ar draws y pleidiau gobeithio—a chyflwyno syniadau da yn wael.
Cefais fy nghalonogi mewn gwirionedd wrth glywed gan y Prif Weinidog yr wythnos diwethaf ei fod wedi darllen ein cynllun 10 pwynt ac ni theimlais o gwbl nad oedd yn barod i gymryd syniadau da o ble bynnag y dônt a’i fod yn teimlo bod tai yn broblem a rennir i raddau helaeth ar draws y Cynulliad hwn fel blaenoriaeth i'r bobl a gynrychiolwn. Ac mewn gwirionedd, rwy'n credu bod hynny'n wir. Nid yw'n golygu na allwn graffu ar fethiannau polisi ymddangosiadol. Rwy'n credu bod y ffigurau yn y cynnig yn awgrymu nad yw Deddf tai 2014 wedi cael yr effaith y gellid bod wedi gobeithio amdani. Ond heb hawl statudol i dai, fel y gofynnwn amdani, rwy'n credu bod disgwyl i ddeddfwriaeth ddatrys problemau digartrefedd yn gofyn llawer, yn anad dim oherwydd y problemau gweithredol y siaradoch chi amdanynt, Leanne.
Will you take an intervention?
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?
If I'm given time, yes, thank you.
Os caf amser, gwnaf, diolch.
I really laud you for trying to come up with good policy ideas on this, but do you accept that we have to tackle the causes of homelessness? And one of the key causes of homelessness is the benefits system. What are you doing to have conversations with your counterparts in Government in Westminster to change some of those punitive, really cruel policies that are resulting in people living on the streets?
Rwy'n eich canmol yn fawr am geisio cynnig syniadau polisi da ar hyn, ond a ydych chi'n derbyn bod yn rhaid i ni fynd i'r afael ag achosion digartrefedd? Ac un o achosion allweddol digartrefedd yw'r system fudd-daliadau. Beth a wnewch i gael sgyrsiau gyda'ch cymheiriaid yn Llywodraeth San Steffan i newid rhai o'r polisïau cosbol, gwirioneddol greulon hynny sy'n arwain at bobl yn byw ar y strydoedd?
Okay, well, I'll come on to that in a little bit, but as you remember—I think you heard from my colleague Angela Burns not so very long ago about some of the views we hold on universal credit, the timing of it and some concerns regarding the five-week delay at the beginning of it. But, of course, this is not devolved and there's only a certain amount of work that we can do on that directly ourselves.
Can I just go back to where I started, about this issue of legislation and the problem of homelessness? Because if we are going to be introducing a statutory right to this, I personally don't have much patience with statute being used for symbolic gestures, and if the Minister can be persuaded to go down this route—which I hope she will, actually—that she will urge considering the mechanisms for enforcing any rights and offering remedies for failure.
I think a post-legislative review of the Act would be very welcome now. We agree, as you heard, with Housing First prioritising the finding of accommodation, but I'm not 100 per cent sure that the wraparound support is following, and I hope that you will note our commitment to the Supporting People funding.
Minister—I think I've raised this with you before—vulnerable people from Neath Port Talbot have recently been housed in Swansea, and both the police and residents have told me that that does not come without its problems. The city already has its county lines and drug problems, including cuckooing, and this is in the social as well as the private rented sector.
It's not the focus of this motion, but I think the private rented sector can and should contribute to relieving homelessness. We may need 40,000 new social sector homes, but that would take 10 years, even under a Welsh Conservative Government, so I think the private sector should also be an active agent of providing good-quality housing as well as being good partners. In Swansea, the Wallich and Dawsons estate agents have helped clients who had experienced homelessness find sustainable accommodation by offering guarantees instead of cash bonds to landlords, together with support through benefit delays and rent arrears, for example.
It's worth mentioning that insecure tenure is not the main driver of people leaving private rented accommodation. Most tenancies are ended by the tenant, but, even so, when the landlord ends the tenancy, the main reason is rent arrears, and changes in the benefit system are often behind that. I'm not trying to avoid that, as I hope I've made plain, but, if we say this is just about benefits, or even low pay, we lose sight of the drink and drugs misuse and the mental health problems of so many who, without those challenges, Leanne, would be better able to manage their finances, however difficult. We lose sight of those in flight from violence, from being thrown out of their family home, those going missing from care, and even something, as we heard from Jack Sergeant, as simple, but as personally devastating, as not being able to keep your pet with you.
And so I turn to point 6 of our action plan, education. Welsh Government was wrong not to support Bethan Sayed's backbench Bill on financial inclusion. As I'm sure we'll hear more of in this debate, homelessness isn't always what we think it is, and it could happen to anyone. Managing money and developing resilience against shock are things we learn, and that is as much about personal experience and mental health as it is about intelligence or comparative poverty. There is space for this in the new curriculum areas of learning and experience. Homelessness exists everywhere, as Neil has said, and there will be no shortage of Cynefin material to provide this localised content. In fact, Swansea council has already committed to developing an education programme with young people, co-produced, to improve their homelessness prevention.
So, data collection—if you'll allow me this, Deputy Presiding Officer—this is not just about homelessness, I think. What is it that is useful to collect by way of data? Let's just take the settled BME community as one example. Once over-represented in social housing applications, it's now the opposite. And I'm not talking about refugees and asylum seekers here, but families established in Wales, Welsh families whose homelessness risk factors are familiar—relationship breakdown, unmet support needs, lack of independent living—but there can be additional factors such as overcrowding, being housed in an area where you face racist abuse or discrimination, where there are no other residents who speak your home language, you may be too far from your place of worship, your support system, and where lack of visibility of housing support will drive you towards low-quality private housing, so you don't appear in the housing statistics.
Finally, Swansea Homeless Sanctuary faces closure because it's £900 in the red: such a small amount for something that can make such a big difference, and the same applies to Supporting People funding. Please keep it and ring-fence it for three years, Minister, or we will be asking the people of Wales to ask us to do it. Thank you.
Iawn, wel, fe ddof ymlaen at hynny mewn ychydig bach, ond fel y cofiwch—credaf i chi glywed gan fy nghyd-Aelod, Angela Burns, heb fod yn bell iawn yn ôl am rai o'r safbwyntiau sydd gennym ar gredyd cynhwysol, ei amseriad a phryderon ynghylch yr oedi am bum wythnos ar ei ddechrau. Ond wrth gwrs, nid yw wedi'i ddatganoli ac ni allwn wneud mwy na hyn a hyn o waith ar hynny'n uniongyrchol ein hunain.
A gaf fi fynd yn ôl i ble y dechreuais, ynglŷn â deddfwriaeth a phroblem digartrefedd? Oherwydd os ydym am gyflwyno hawl statudol i hyn, yn bersonol nid oes gennyf lawer o amynedd gyda statud yn cael ei ddefnyddio’n symbolaidd yn unig, ac os gellir perswadio'r Gweinidog i ddilyn y llwybr hwn—ac rwy’n gobeithio y gwnaiff hi—y bydd hi’n annog ystyriaeth o'r mecanweithiau ar gyfer rhoi unrhyw hawliau mewn grym a chynnig camau unioni ar gyfer methiant i wneud hynny.
Rwy'n credu y byddai adolygiad ôl-ddeddfwriaethol o'r Ddeddf i'w groesawu'n fawr yn awr. Rydym yn cytuno, fel y clywsoch, gyda Tai yn Gynraf yn blaenoriaethu dod o hyd i lety, ond nid wyf yn berffaith siŵr bod y gefnogaeth gofleidiol yn dilyn, a gobeithio y byddwch yn nodi ein hymrwymiad i'r cyllid Cefnogi Pobl.
Weinidog—rwy'n credu fy mod wedi codi hyn gyda chi o'r blaen—mae pobl fregus o Gastell-nedd Port Talbot wedi cael eu cartrefu yn Abertawe yn ddiweddar, ac mae'r heddlu a thrigolion wedi dweud wrthyf fod yna broblemau ynghlwm wrth hynny. Mae gan y ddinas ei llinellau cyffuriau a'i phroblemau cyffuriau eisoes, gan gynnwys cogio, a hynny yn y sector cymdeithasol yn ogystal â'r sector rhentu preifat.
Nid dyna yw ffocws y cynnig hwn, ond rwy'n credu y gall ac y dylai'r sector rhentu preifat gyfrannu at leddfu digartrefedd. Efallai y bydd angen 40,000 o gartrefi sector cymdeithasol newydd arnom, ond byddai hynny'n cymryd 10 mlynedd, hyd yn oed o dan Lywodraeth Geidwadol Gymreig, felly rwy'n credu y dylai'r sector preifat hefyd fod yn asiant gweithredol i ddarparu tai o ansawdd da yn ogystal â bod yn bartneriaid da. Yn Abertawe, mae’r gwerthwyr tai Wallich a Dawsons wedi helpu cleientiaid a oedd wedi profi digartrefedd i ddod o hyd i lety cynaliadwy trwy gynnig gwarantau yn lle bondiau arian parod i landlordiaid, ynghyd â chymorth gydag oedi budd-daliadau ac ôl-ddyledion rhent, er enghraifft.
Mae'n werth nodi nad ansicrwydd deiliadaeth yw’r prif reswm pam y mae pobl yn gadael llety rhent preifat. Y tenant sy’n dod â’r rhan fwyaf o denantiaethau i ben, ond er hynny, pan fydd y landlord yn dirwyn y denantiaeth i ben, y prif reswm yw ôl-ddyledion rhent, ac yn aml, newidiadau yn y system fudd-daliadau sy’n sail i hynny. Nid wyf yn ceisio osgoi hynny, fel rwy’n gobeithio fy mod wedi dangos yn glir, ond os dywedwn fod a wnelo hyn â budd-daliadau yn unig, neu gyflog isel hyd yn oed, rydym yn colli golwg ar gamddefnyddio diod a chyffuriau a phroblemau iechyd meddwl cynifer a fyddai, heb yr heriau hynny, Leanne, yn gallu rheoli eu cyllid yn well, ni waeth pa mor anodd fyddai hynny. Rydym yn colli golwg ar y rhai sy'n dianc rhag trais a chael eu taflu allan o'u cartref teuluol, y rhai sy'n mynd ar goll o ofal, a hyd yn oed rhywbeth, fel y clywsom gan Jack Sergeant, sydd mor syml, ond mor ddinistriol yn bersonol, â methu cadw eich anifeiliaid anwes gyda chi.
Ac felly trof at bwynt 6 yn ein cynllun gweithredu, sef addysg. Roedd Llywodraeth Cymru yn anghywir i beidio â chefnogi Bil meinciau cefn Bethan Sayed ar gynhwysiant ariannol. Fel rwy'n siŵr y byddwn yn clywed eto yn y ddadl hon, nid yw digartrefedd bob amser yr hyn y credwn ydyw, a gallai ddigwydd i unrhyw un. Mae rheoli arian a datblygu gwytnwch yn erbyn sioc yn bethau a ddysgwn, ac mae hynny'n ymwneud lawn cymaint â phrofiad personol ac iechyd meddwl ag â deallusrwydd neu dlodi cymharol. Mae lle i hyn ym meysydd dysgu a phrofiad y cwricwlwm newydd. Mae digartrefedd yn bodoli ym mhobman, fel y dywedodd Neil, ac ni fydd prinder deunydd Cynefin i ddarparu'r cynnwys lleol hwn. Mewn gwirionedd, mae cyngor Abertawe eisoes wedi ymrwymo i ddatblygu rhaglen addysg gyda phobl ifanc, wedi'i chydgynhyrchu, i wella eu gwaith ar atal digartrefedd.
Felly, casglu data—os caniatewch hyn i mi, Ddirprwy Lywydd—nid yw hyn yn ymwneud â digartrefedd yn unig yn fy marn i. Beth sy'n ddefnyddiol i'w gasglu trwy ddata? Gadewch i ni gymryd y gymuned sefydlog o bobl dduon a lleiafrifoedd ethnig fel un enghraifft. Ar un adeg, roeddent wedi’u gorgynrychioli mewn ceisiadau tai cymdeithasol, ond bellach, y gwrthwyneb sy’n wir. Ac nid wyf yn siarad am ffoaduriaid a cheiswyr lloches yma, ond teuluoedd sydd wedi ymsefydlu yng Nghymru, teuluoedd Cymreig y mae eu ffactorau risg o ddigartrefedd yn gyfarwydd—chwalfa perthynas, anghenion cymorth heb eu diwallu, methu byw'n annibynnol—ond gall fod ffactorau ychwanegol fel gorlenwi, cael eich cartrefu mewn ardal lle rydych yn wynebu gwahaniaethu neu gam-drin hiliol, lle nad oes unrhyw breswylwyr eraill yn siarad iaith eich cartref, efallai eich bod yn rhy bell o'ch man addoli, eich system gymorth, a lle bydd diffyg gwelededd cymorth tai yn eich gyrru tuag at dai preifat o ansawdd gwael, felly nid ydych yn ymddangos yn yr ystadegau tai.
Yn olaf, mae Noddfa Digartref Abertawe yn wynebu cau oherwydd ei fod £900 yn y coch: swm mor fach am rywbeth a all wneud gwahaniaeth mor fawr, ac mae'r un peth yn wir am gyllid Cefnogi Pobl. Cadwch hwn a’i glustnodi am dair blynedd, Weinidog, neu byddwn yn gofyn i bobl Cymru ofyn i ni ei wneud. Diolch.
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I very much welcome the opportunity to discuss this very important issue and the tone in which it's been discussed so far. Homelessness is complicated and is caused by a number of different events. Whilst people often equate homelessness with rough-sleeping, rough-sleeping is just one form of homelessness, albeit the most visible and probably the most dangerous. We know that many more homeless people sleep on sofas and floors of friends and family or are in temporary accommodation, or live in overcrowded conditions, sometimes with two families living in a two-bedroomed house. When the choice is living in overcrowded accommodation or living on the streets, it's easy to see why people choose the overcrowded accommodation for themselves relative to a friend's, and you can understand why people make room for people where they haven't actually got it, so they don't end up sleeping on the street.
Homelessness is devastating. It's driven by high rents and low income, lack of affordable housing, people not receiving the support they need when they need it, and this includes benefits. The most important thing is to stop people becoming homeless in the first place by early intervention, and the Welsh Government are committed to that, and we passed an Act a couple of years ago talking about early intervention. Prevention will stop people from becoming homeless in the first place. People need to intervene when homelessness is threatened, not wait for the day before they've been moved out, or in some cases the day that they're being moved out. Now, local authorities have got the power and the duty to do it, but we need to ensure that every local authority uses that power and that duty in order to ensure that people don't end up homeless. Sometimes, early intervention can keep people in the home they're currently in, providing support at this stage rather than waiting for people to become homeless, emergency response, providing emergency supports like shelter, food and day programmes while someone is homeless.
We need housing, accommodation and support—the provision of housing and ongoing support as a means of moving people out of homelessness. For some homeless people, providing a house or flat will not solve their problems. They have other problems. They need the housing-related support and supported living services that help people to live as independently as they can, or move on to independent living. Many different groups of people benefit from these services.
There are many providers in Wales who provide housing-related support and supported living services, but it wouldn't be me if I didn't mention the ones in Swansea. There is also good work done by The Wallich, including their cross-border women’s project in Birchgrove, Swansea, which I urge people to visit if they're in the area, and also Dinas Fechan, a 15-bedroom hostel providing shelter and support to single homeless people. The hostel provides accommodation and support to people with a variety of support needs, including mental health issues, learning difficulties, offending behaviour or substance misuse. All residents meet regularly with their support worker, who will offer personal development work, access to appropriate services and advice on seeking permanent accommodation. Each resident has their own living space and shared communal living rooms. All these good works are important, but we wish for everyone to be adequately housed. Appointing a homelessness tsar, ideally someone who has lived experience and who can scrutinise the progress towards ending homelessness in Wales, will not end homelessness.
We need to build more council houses. I know I bang on about this again all the time, but the only time since the second world war when we didn't have a housing crisis was when we were building council housing at scale. That's what we need to do—go back to building council housing at scale. We've got demand that is not being met. We can change who we give priority to and how to move it round, but the reality is that unless we've got adequate housing, we just decide that different people are going to be housed. It's important that we get sufficient housing available, and we've got a huge problem of the lack of council housing, and that's got to be built. We need to go back to building at scale. If we look back to the 1950s and 1960s, when we had Labour and Conservative Governments at Westminster who, at election time, campaigned to see who was going to build the most council houses. People like Harold Macmillan would probably find Boris Johnson's Government a very difficult place to be. They were really interested in getting council housing. We need that.
We also need to get empty housing and flats back into use. Every one of us can wander round our own constituencies and see that these are houses, many in sought-after areas, that have just been left, and we need to get those back into use. I know Manselton in my constituency is a really sought-after area of good-quality terraced houses, but you can wander round most streets and find one or more houses that have been left empty. This is just a waste of resources, and it really is to the disadvantage of homeless people. We need to get more council houses and the empty houses and flats back into use so people aren't homeless anymore.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwy’n croesawu’n fawr y cyfle i drafod y mater pwysig hwn a’r ysbryd y cafodd ei drafod ynddo hyd yma. Mae digartrefedd yn gymhleth ac fe’i hachosir gan nifer o wahanol ddigwyddiadau. Er bod pobl yn aml yn meddwl bod digartrefedd yn golygu cysgu ar y stryd, un math yn unig o ddigartrefedd yw cysgu ar y stryd, er mai dyna'r math mwyaf gweladwy a'r mwyaf peryglus yn ôl pob tebyg. Rydym yn gwybod bod llawer mwy o bobl ddigartref yn cysgu ar soffas a lloriau ffrindiau a theulu neu mewn llety dros dro, neu'n byw mewn amodau gorlawn, weithiau gyda dau deulu'n byw mewn tŷ dwy ystafell wely. Pan fydd y dewis rhwng byw mewn llety gorlawn neu fyw ar y strydoedd, mae'n hawdd gweld pam y mae pobl yn dewis y llety gorlawn iddynt eu hunain mewn perthynas â ffrind, a gallwch ddeall pam y mae pobl yn gwneud lle i bobl pan nad oes ganddynt le mewn gwirionedd, fel nad ydynt yn gorfod cysgu ar y stryd.
Mae digartrefedd yn ddinistriol. Caiff ei yrru gan renti uchel ac incwm isel, diffyg tai fforddiadwy, pobl ddim yn cael y cymorth sydd ei angen arnynt pan fo’i angen arnynt, ac mae hyn yn cynnwys budd-daliadau. Y peth pwysicaf yw atal pobl rhag mynd yn ddigartref yn y lle cyntaf trwy ymyrraeth gynnar, ac mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ymrwymo i hynny, a phasiwyd Deddf ychydig flynyddoedd yn ôl yn siarad am ymyrraeth gynnar. Bydd atal yn rhwystro pobl rhag mynd yn ddigartref yn y lle cyntaf. Mae angen i bobl ymyrryd pan geir bygythiad o ddigartrefedd, nid aros am y diwrnod cyn iddynt gael eu symud allan, neu mewn rhai achosion y diwrnod y cânt eu symud allan. Nawr, mae gan awdurdodau lleol bŵer a dyletswydd i'w wneud, ond mae angen i ni sicrhau bod pob awdurdod lleol yn defnyddio'r pŵer hwnnw a'r ddyletswydd honno er mwyn sicrhau nad yw pobl yn mynd yn ddigartref. Weithiau gall ymyrraeth gynnar gadw pobl yn y cartref y maent ynddo ar hyn o bryd, gan ddarparu cefnogaeth ar y cam hwn yn hytrach nag aros i bobl fynd yn ddigartref, ymateb mewn argyfwng, darparu cymorth brys fel lloches, bwyd a rhaglenni dydd tra bo rhywun yn ddigartref.
Mae angen tai, llety a chymorth—darparu tai a chymorth parhaus fel ffordd o symud pobl allan o ddigartrefedd. I rai pobl ddigartref, ni fydd darparu tŷ neu fflat yn datrys eu problemau. Mae ganddynt broblemau eraill. Maent angen y cymorth sy’n gysylltiedig â thai a'r gwasanaethau byw â chymorth sy'n helpu pobl i fyw mor annibynnol ag y gallant, neu symud ymlaen i fyw'n annibynnol. Mae llawer o wahanol grwpiau o bobl yn elwa o'r gwasanaethau hyn.
Ceir llawer o ddarparwyr yng Nghymru sy'n darparu cymorth sy'n gysylltiedig â thai a gwasanaethau byw â chymorth, ond nid fi fuaswn i pe na bawn i’n sôn am y rhai yn Abertawe. Gwneir gwaith da gan The Wallich hefyd, gan gynnwys eu prosiect menywod trawsffiniol yn Birchgrove, Abertawe, ac rwy'n annog pobl i ymweld ag ef os ydynt yn yr ardal, a Dinas Fechan hefyd, hostel 15 ystafell wely sy'n darparu lloches a chymorth i bobl ddigartref sengl. Mae'r hostel yn darparu llety a chefnogaeth i bobl ag amrywiaeth o anghenion cymorth, gan gynnwys problemau iechyd meddwl, anawsterau dysgu, ymddygiad troseddol neu gamddefnyddio sylweddau. Mae'r holl breswylwyr yn cyfarfod yn rheolaidd â'u gweithiwr cymorth a fydd yn cynnig gwaith datblygu personol, mynediad at wasanaethau priodol a chyngor ar chwilio am lety parhaol. Mae gan bob preswylydd ei le byw ei hun ac ystafelloedd byw cymunedol a rennir. Mae'r holl waith da yn bwysig, ond rydym yn dymuno i bawb gael cartref digonol. Ni fydd penodi tsar digartrefedd, yn ddelfrydol rhywun sydd wedi cael profiad o fyw'n ddigartref ac sy'n gallu craffu ar y cynnydd tuag at roi diwedd ar ddigartrefedd yng Nghymru, yn dod â digartrefedd i ben.
Mae angen i ni adeiladu mwy o dai cyngor. Rwy'n gwybod fy mod yn rhygnu ymlaen am hyn drwy'r amser, ond yr unig amser ers yr ail ryfel byd nad oedd gennym argyfwng tai oedd pan oeddem yn adeiladu tai cyngor ar raddfa fawr. Dyna beth sydd angen i ni ei wneud—mynd yn ôl i adeiladu tai cyngor ar raddfa fawr. Mae gennym alw nad yw'n cael ei ddiwallu. Gallwn newid pwy sy’n cael blaenoriaeth gennym a sut i'w symud o gwmpas, ond y gwir amdani yw oni bai fod gennym dai digonol, rydym ond yn penderfynu bod gwahanol bobl yn mynd i gael cartref. Mae'n bwysig ein bod yn sicrhau bod digon o dai ar gael, ac mae gennym broblem enfawr oherwydd prinder tai cyngor, ac mae'n rhaid eu hadeiladu. Mae angen i ni fynd yn ôl i adeiladu ar raddfa fawr. Os edrychwn yn ôl ar y 50au a’r 60au, pan oedd gennym Lywodraethau Llafur a Cheidwadol yn San Steffan a oedd, ar adeg etholiad, yn ymgyrchu i weld pwy oedd yn mynd i adeiladu’r nifer fwyaf o dai cyngor. Mae’n debyg y byddai pobl fel Harold Macmillan yn ei chael hi’n anodd iawn bod yn rhan o Lywodraeth Boris Johnson. Roedd ganddynt ddiddordeb mawr mewn cael tai cyngor. Mae angen hynny arnom.
Mae angen i ni hefyd ddefnyddio tai a fflatiau gwag unwaith eto. Gall pob un ohonom grwydro o amgylch ein hetholaethau ein hunain a gweld tai, llawer ohonynt mewn ardaloedd poblogaidd, sydd wedi'u gadael yn wag, ac mae angen inni ddefnyddio’r rheini unwaith eto. Rwy'n gwybod bod Manselton yn fy etholaeth yn ardal boblogaidd o dai teras o ansawdd da, ond gallwch grwydro o amgylch y mwyafrif o strydoedd a dod o hyd i un neu fwy o dai sydd wedi'u gadael yn wag. Gwastraff adnoddau yw hyn, ac anfantais i bobl ddigartref mewn gwirionedd. Mae angen i ni gael mwy o dai cyngor a defnyddio tai a fflatiau gwag unwaith eto fel nad yw pobl yn ddigartref mwyach.
As our motion states, current policies to tackle homelessness and rough-sleeping are falling short of what is required. But none of this is new. Homelessness figures doubled during the first Assembly term, between 1999 and 2003. The then Welsh Assembly Government introduced non-statutory homelessness prevention measures during the second Assembly term to tackle this. Homelessness figures fell, but the sector reported that hidden homelessness doubled. As I stated here in 2007 during the debate on the social justice committee’s report on youth homelessness in Wales,
'Voluntary organisations state that hidden homelessness could double the Assembly Government’s homelessness figures. When we met a group of homeless young people in Old Colwyn, they told us that there was a massive shortage of affordable accommodation, and asked, "Where are we to go?"'.
Fel y dywed ein cynnig, nid yw polisïau cyfredol i fynd i'r afael â digartrefedd a chysgu ar y stryd yn cyflawni'r hyn sy'n ofynnol. Ond nid oes dim o hyn yn newydd. Dyblodd ffigurau digartrefedd yn ystod tymor cyntaf y Cynulliad rhwng 1999 a 2003. Cyflwynodd Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ar y pryd fesurau atal digartrefedd anstatudol yn ystod ail dymor y Cynulliad i fynd i'r afael â hyn. Disgynnodd niferoedd y digartref, ond nododd y sector fod digartrefedd cudd wedi dyblu. Fel y dywedais yma yn 2007 yn ystod y ddadl ar adroddiad y pwyllgor cyfiawnder cymdeithasol ar ddigartrefedd ymhlith pobl ifanc yng Nghymru,
Mae sefydliadau gwirfoddol yn nodi y gallai digartrefedd cudd ddyblu ffigurau digartrefedd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad. Pan gyfarfuom â grŵp o bobl ifanc ddigartref yn Hen Golwyn, fe wnaethant ddweud wrthym fod prinder enfawr o lety fforddiadwy, a gofyn, “I ble'r awn ni?”
That was 2007. As the young people in north Wales told us then, mediation and early intervention are needed at an earlier stage—we need to go into schools and work with families before people become homeless.
Several voluntary organisations, including Shelter Cymru, expressed concern then that many homeless or potentially homeless people were not being included in the homeless statistics. The committee then learned of increasing numbers of homeless applicants being deemed intentionally homeless then. My conclusion to that speech included,
‘The Assembly Government must review its policy for care leavers, address the problems of homelessness in rural areas, and work with the Department for Work and Pensions to address the anomalies in the benefits system that penalise homeless people’,
in 2007.
Although bricks and mortar will not alone solve the problem, it will not be solved without an ambitious house building programme. In 1999, when Labour first came to power here, there was no housing supply crisis in Wales, but they slashed the social housing grant and cut the supply of new affordable homes by 71 per cent during their first three terms. During the second Assembly, the housing sector came together to warn the Welsh Government there would be a housing crisis if they didn’t listen—but they didn’t listen.
Jump forward, the latest available annualised figures for Wales show falls in new dwellings started, private sector completions, local authority completions and new affordable housing units. Although the latest published quarterly National House Building Council figures show the highest number of new UK homes registered for 12 years, up 12 per cent on the same period last year and up 14 per cent in England, they were only up 3 per cent in Wales. Only 3 per cent of these new homes registered were in Wales, despite having 5 per cent of the UK population and despite the scale of Labour’s homegrown housing crisis here.
Evidence on rough-sleeping to the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee last week from Dr Helen Taylor, Cardiff Metropolitan University, quoted evidence from respondents,
‘that just making someone a priority would not address the issues they are experiencing’.
One stated,
‘Itwon’t solve the problems by giving them somewhere to live, by giving them help; they have to want to do it.’
Respondents highlighted the relationship between homelessness legislation and the provision of other services, such as substance misuse services. Yet successive Welsh Governments have ignored the need for residential detoxification and rehabilitation services in Wales identified in successive independent reports, warning then that this was contributing, for example, to the homeless population and the prison population .
As the guide published on Monday to help housing professionals support autistic people stated, autistic people have consistently identified challenges in seeking appropriate housing services, help and support due to a lack of understanding of the condition and their individual needs. I get casework like that every day, still.
August’s 'End Youth Homelessness' report on LGBTQ+ youth homelessness recommended,
'that Welsh Government support the trial of an Upstream-style service, whereby schools work with youth homelessness specialists to identify young people at risk of homelessness.'
Déjà vu—remember that from 2007? At last week’s joint meeting of the cross-party groups on housing and on violence against women and children, we heard that housing and homelessness services are central to survivors of violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence, and that priority need should include all forms of these. Déjà vu again.
In north Wales, young people have created Youth Shedz. When I visited this Grŵp Cynefin project in Denbigh, the young people told me that this provided a safe space for them to develop and prepare themselves for independent living. At the September 2017 Digartref Ynys Môn and Bangor University event here, we heard homeless young people themselves say that young people living in supported accommodation could have a host of issues to deal with and may struggle with this alongside studying.
I therefore urge support for our motion, which rightly commends the good practice found in the housing sector and notes the Welsh Conservatives' 10-point plan to tackle homelessness, ‘More than a Refuge’. We've waited too long already.
Yn 2007 oedd hynny. Fel y dywedodd y bobl ifanc yng ngogledd Cymru wrthym bryd hynny, mae angen cyfryngu ac ymyrraeth gynnar ar gam mwy buan—mae angen inni fynd i mewn i ysgolion a gweithio gyda theuluoedd cyn i bobl fynd yn ddigartref.
Mynegwyd pryder bryd hynny gan sawl sefydliad gwirfoddol, gan gynnwys Shelter Cymru, nad oedd llawer o bobl ddigartref neu bobl a allai fynd yn ddigartref yn cael eu cynnwys yn yr ystadegau digartrefedd. Dysgodd y pwyllgor wedyn fod niferoedd cynyddol o ymgeiswyr digartref yn cael eu hystyried yn ddigartref yn fwriadol ar y pryd. Wrth orffen yr araith honno, dywedais
Rhaid i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad adolygu ei pholisi ar gyfer pobl sy'n gadael gofal, mynd i'r afael â phroblemau digartrefedd mewn ardaloedd gwledig, a gweithio gyda'r Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau i fynd i'r afael â'r anghysonderau yn y system fudd-daliadau sy'n cosbi pobl ddigartref,
yn 2007.
Er na fydd brics a morter yn datrys y broblem ar eu pen eu hunain, ni chaiff ei datrys heb raglen adeiladu tai uchelgeisiol. Yn 1999, pan ddaeth Llafur i rym yma gyntaf, nid oedd yn argyfwng ar y cyflenwad tai yng Nghymru, ond fe wnaethant dorri'r grant tai cymdeithasol a thorri'r cyflenwad o dai fforddiadwy newydd 71 y cant yn ystod eu tri thymor cyntaf. Yn ystod yr ail Gynulliad, daeth y sector tai at ei gilydd i rybuddio Llywodraeth Cymru y byddai argyfwng tai pe na baent yn gwrando—ond ni wnaethant wrando.
Neidiwch ymlaen, mae'r ffigurau blynyddol diweddaraf sydd ar gael ar gyfer Cymru yn dangos gostyngiad yn nifer yr anheddau newydd a ddechreuwyd, nifer y tai a gwblhawyd yn y sector preifat, nifer y tai a gwblhawyd gydag awdurdodau lleol ac unedau tai fforddiadwy newydd. Er bod y ffigurau chwarterol diweddaraf a gyhoeddwyd gan y Cyngor Cenedlaethol Adeiladu Tai yn dangos bod y nifer uchaf o gartrefi newydd ers 12 mlynedd wedi’u cofrestru yn y DU, cynnydd o 12 y cant ers yr un cyfnod y llynedd a chynnydd o 14 y cant yn Lloegr, dim ond 3 y cant o gynnydd a welwyd yng Nghymru. Dim ond 3 y cant o'r cartrefi newydd hyn a gofrestrwyd oedd yng Nghymru, er bod ganddynt 5 y cant o boblogaeth y DU ac er gwaethaf maint argyfwng tai Llafur yma.
Roedd tystiolaeth ar gysgu allan i’r Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau yr wythnos diwethaf gan Dr Helen Taylor, Prifysgol Metropolitan Caerdydd, yn dyfynnu tystiolaeth gan ymatebwyr,
na fyddai gwneud rhywun yn flaenoriaeth yn unig yn datrys y problemau y maent yn eu profi.
Nododd un,
Ni fydd yn datrys y problemau drwy roi rhywle iddynt fyw, drwy roi help iddynt; mae’n rhaid iddynt fod eisiau ei wneud.
Nododd ymatebwyr y berthynas rhwng deddfwriaeth ddigartrefedd a darparu gwasanaethau eraill, megis gwasanaethau camddefnyddio sylweddau. Ac eto mae Llywodraethau olynol yng Nghymru wedi anwybyddu'r angen am wasanaethau dadwenwyno ac adfer preswyl yng Nghymru fel y nodwyd mewn adroddiadau annibynnol olynol yn rhybuddio bod hyn yn cyfrannu, er enghraifft, at y boblogaeth ddigartref a phoblogaeth y carchardai .
Fel y nododd y canllaw a gyhoeddwyd ddydd Llun i helpu gweithwyr tai proffesiynol i gefnogi pobl awtistig, mae pobl awtistig wedi nodi heriau yn gyson wrth ddod o hyd i wasanaethau tai, cefnogaeth a chymorth priodol oherwydd diffyg dealltwriaeth o'r cyflwr a'u hanghenion unigol. Rwy'n dal i gael gwaith achos o’r fath bob dydd.
Argymhellodd adroddiad End Youth Homelessness fis Awst ar ddigartrefedd ymhlith ieuenctid LHDT+,
y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru gefnogi treialu gwasanaeth ar ffurf Upstream, lle mae ysgolion yn gweithio gydag arbenigwyr ar ddigartrefedd ieuenctid i nodi pobl ifanc sydd mewn perygl o fynd yn ddigartref.
Déjà vu—a ydych chi'n cofio hynny o 2007? Yn y cyfarfod ar y cyd yr wythnos diwethaf o’r grwpiau trawsbleidiol ar dai ac ar drais yn erbyn menywod a phlant, clywsom fod gwasanaethau tai a digartrefedd yn ganolog i oroeswyr trais yn erbyn menywod, cam-drin domestig a thrais rhywiol, ac y dylai angen blaenoriaethol gynnwys pob ffurf ar y rhain. Déjà vu unwaith eto.
Yng ngogledd Cymru, mae pobl ifanc wedi creu Youth Shedz. Pan ymwelais â'r prosiect Grŵp Cynefin hwn yn Ninbych, dywedodd y bobl ifanc wrthyf ei fod yn darparu gofod diogel iddynt ddatblygu ac ymbaratoi ar gyfer byw'n annibynnol. Yn nigwyddiad Digartref Ynys Môn a Phrifysgol Bangor yma ym mis Medi 2017, clywsom bobl ifanc ddigartref eu hunain yn dweud y gallai pobl ifanc sy'n byw mewn llety â chymorth fod â llu o broblemau i ymdrin â hwy ac y gallent ei chael hi'n anodd gwneud hynny ochr yn ochr ag astudio.
Felly, rwy’n eich annog i gefnogi ein cynnig, sy’n canmol yn briodol yr arferion da sydd i’w canfod yn y sector tai ac sy'n nodi cynllun 10 pwynt y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig i fynd i’r afael â digartrefedd, ‘Mwy na Lloches yn Unig’. Rydym wedi aros yn rhy hir yn barod.
I thank David Melding for bringing forward this debate and for publishing his 10-point plan for tackling homelessness. I support any moves to improve the way we tackle homelessness and will work positively with any Government to ensure no person is left without the most basic human right of all: the right to a roof over each and every person's head, and a suitable one at that.
It's a right that has not been able to be resolved by 20 years of Welsh Labour Government. The answer is complex and requires significant forward planning. But, there again, UK Governments have also been unable to offer a solution. And whilst we can all cast a stone and play political football, it would serve no purpose. This is too serious an issue and we need positive change. We need for the UK Government and the Welsh Government to work positively together to bring about this change and to eradicate homelessness in the twenty-first century.
Looking at the housing crisis, the move to universal credit has played a negative part in homelessness. There are high numbers of veterans and ex-offenders sleeping rough because it can take up to five weeks or more to receive any benefit payments. The UK Government, whilst they were right to crack down on people cheating the system, their implementation was flawed and hurt those in genuine need. The needs of people who are homeless are many, complex and varied. It is not simply, 'A home and that is the end of it.' It is not. Again, I urge the Welsh Government to work with the UK Government to ensure that benefit payments begin the day someone is discharged from the armed forces or released from prison custody.
The massive rise we have seen in homelessness has to be tackled head on, and I therefore commend the Welsh Conservatives for their action plan, in the hope that it will help the Welsh Government adopt more ambitious plans of their own. Doubling the number of social housing being built is a good start.
I also welcome appointing someone who has been homeless to advise Ministers on housing policy. The Welsh Government has to admit their approach isn't working, and having a homelessness person to help them would help revitalise their efforts to end homelessness, as would adopting many of the proposals before them today. So, I urge Members to reject the Welsh Government’s amendment. Yes, there is good practice, but it does exist in small pockets around the country and is not nationwide.
We will be supporting most of the other amendments, which we feel add to the Conservatives' motion, but we will be opposing amendments 3, 6 and 9. With regard to amendment 11, I totally agree that the Vagrancy Act should be repealed. It should not be used to remove rough-sleepers, as was the case in Neath when the Labour-run council sought to remove visible signs of homelessness. But, that said, we do however need to tackle problem begging. We need new legislation passed by Parliament—which, given its dysfunctional current state, is unlikely anytime soon—to tackle problem begging. It's a sad fact that fewer than one in five people tackled for begging were homeless. Sadly, organised crime groups are preying on people's charity and taking vital funds from those in genuine need.
There is a cross-party desire to end rough-sleeping, and I ask if the Welsh Government has the vision and ambition to achieve the aim, because it requires working together. And when we work together, we can all put an end to this national disgrace, as Neil McEvoy so succinctly says it.
Diolch i David Melding am gyflwyno'r ddadl hon, ac am gyhoeddi ei gynllun 10 pwynt ar gyfer mynd i'r afael â digartrefedd. Rwy'n cefnogi unrhyw gamau i wella'r ffordd yr awn i'r afael â digartrefedd a byddaf yn gweithio'n gadarnhaol gydag unrhyw Lywodraeth i sicrhau nad oes unrhyw berson yn cael ei adael heb yr hawl ddynol fwyaf sylfaenol: yr hawl i do dros ben pob person, ac un addas ar hynny.
Mae'n hawl na lwyddwyd i'w datrys gan 20 mlynedd o Lywodraeth Lafur Cymru. Mae'r ateb yn gymhleth ac yn galw am flaengynllunio sylweddol. Ac eto, nid yw Llywodraethau'r DU ychwaith wedi gallu cynnig ateb. Ac er y gall pob un ohonom feio’n gilydd a chwarae pêl-droed gwleidyddol, ni fyddai unrhyw bwrpas i hynny. Mae hwn yn fater rhy ddifrifol ac mae angen newid cadarnhaol. Mae angen i Lywodraeth y DU a Llywodraeth Cymru weithio'n gadarnhaol gyda'i gilydd i sicrhau'r newid hwn a dileu digartrefedd yn yr unfed ganrif ar hugain.
O edrych ar yr argyfwng tai, mae'r newid i gredyd cynhwysol wedi chwarae rhan negyddol mewn digartrefedd. Ceir nifer uchel o gyn-filwyr a chyn-droseddwyr yn cysgu ar y stryd am y gall gymryd hyd at bum wythnos neu fwy i gael talaidau budd-dal. Er bod Llywodraeth y DU yn iawn i fynd i'r afael â phobl sy’n twyllo'r system, roedd y modd y gweithredwyd hynny’n ddiffygiol ac fe niweidiodd y rhai oedd mewn gwir angen. Mae anghenion pobl sy'n ddigartref yn niferus, yn gymhleth ac yn amrywiol. Nid yw’n fater syml o gael cartref a dyna ddiwedd arni. Unwaith eto, rwy’n annog Llywodraeth Cymru i weithio gyda Llywodraeth y DU i sicrhau bod taliadau budd-dal yn dechau ar y diwrnod y caiff rhywun ei ryddhau o'r lluoedd arfog neu o'r carchar.
Rhaid mynd i’r afael â’r cynnydd enfawr a welsom mewn digartrefedd yn uniongyrchol, ac felly rwy’n cymeradwyo’r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig am eu cynllun gweithredu, yn y gobaith y bydd yn helpu Llywodraeth Cymru i fabwysiadu cynlluniau mwy uchelgeisiol eu hunain. Mae dyblu nifer y tai cymdeithasol sy'n cael eu hadeiladu yn ddechrau da.
Rwyf hefyd yn croesawu’r argymhelliad i benodi rhywun sydd wedi bod yn ddigartref i gynghori Gweinidogion ar bolisi tai. Rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru gyfaddef nad yw eu dull o weithredu’n gweithio, a byddai cael person digartrefedd i'w helpu yn cynorthwyo i adfywio eu hymdrechion i ddod â digartrefedd i ben, fel y byddai mabwysiadu llawer o'r cynigion a gyflwynwyd iddynt heddiw. Felly, rwy’n annog yr Aelodau i wrthod gwelliant Llywodraeth Cymru. Oes, mae yna arferion da, ond maent yn bodoli mewn pocedi bach ledled y wlad ac nid ydynt yn genedlaethol.
Byddwn yn cefnogi'r rhan fwyaf o'r gwelliannau eraill y teimlwn eu bod yn ychwanegu at gynnig y Ceidwadwyr, ond byddwn yn gwrthwynebu gwelliannau 3, 6 a 9. O ran gwelliant 11, cytunaf yn llwyr y dylid diddymu'r Ddeddf Crwydradaeth. Ni ddylid ei defnyddio i gael gwared ar bobl sy'n cysgu allan, fel a ddigwyddodd yng Nghastell-nedd pan geisiodd y cyngor Llafur gael gwared ar arwyddion gweladwy o ddigartrefedd. Ond wedi dweud hynny, mae angen i ni fynd i'r afael â chardota problemus. Mae angen i’r Senedd basio deddfwriaeth newydd—sydd, o ystyried ei chyflwr camweithredol presennol, yn annhebygol yn y dyfodol agos—i fynd i’r afael â chardota problemus. Mae'n ffaith drist fod llai nag un o bob pump o'r bobl yr aethpwyd i'r afael â hwy oherwydd eu bod yn cardota yn ddigartref. Yn anffodus, mae grwpiau troseddau cyfundrefnol yn cymryd mantais ar garedigrwydd pobl ac yn mynd ag arian prin oddi wrth bobl sydd mewn gwir angen.
Mae yna awydd trawsbleidiol i roi diwedd ar gysgu ar y stryd, ac rwy'n gofyn a oes gan Lywodraeth Cymru weledigaeth ac uchelgais i gyrraedd y nod, oherwydd mae'n galw am weithio gyda'n gilydd. A phan fyddwn yn gweithio gyda'n gilydd, gall pawb ohonom roi diwedd ar y gwarth cenedlaethol hwn, fel y mae Neil McEvoy yn ei ddisgrifio mor gryno.
Everyone has a fundamental right to housing. People have the right to a safe, secure, habitable and affordable home with freedom from forced eviction. It is the obligation of Government to guarantee that everyone can exercise their right to live in secure, peaceful and dignified place. It is a matter of concern, therefore, that recent housing statistics reveal a downturn in house building in Wales. The number of new dwellings started in the second quarter of this year is 7 per cent less than a year earlier. In addition, the number of households in Wales threatened with homelessness has increased.
Rough-sleeping is the most visible form of homelessness. We live in one of the most advanced and successful countries in the world—as a matter of fact, the fifth richest—and look at this, people still living on the streets and under the motorways, which is totally unacceptable. The fact that we still have people without a home and sleeping rough on our streets is a shame to us all. In our towns and cities, the sight of tents appearing on roundabouts and grass banks and roadsides is all too common these days. Last year, local authorities in Wales counted 158 people sleeping rough across Wales. However, the method used in making this count has been widely criticised. Shelter Cymru called it outdated with Denbighshire council reporting only one rough-sleeper.
Historically, homelessness services for rough-sleepers have been provided by hostels, yet many rough-sleepers choose not to use hostels. The reasons they give include overwhelming drug, alcohol and violence issues. Homeless people have often accumulated serious mental health and addiction problems while living on the streets. All these factors combine to make hostels an unattractive option. I have called in the past, in this Chamber, for innovative solutions to be found to get homeless people off the streets. In Newport, the charity Amazing Grace Spaces opened sleeping pods to provide safe temporary shelters. In response to my question, welcoming this, the First Minister said:
'innovative solutions may help in the here and now, a long-term answer to tackling the housing problems that we face across the nation are more permanent homes'.
I agree with this quote, Presiding Officer. We need to meet the complex needs of people who find themselves sleeping on our streets. We need bold and urgent action. We need a strategy that prevents rough-sleeping before it happens, a strategy that intervenes at all crisis points and helps people to recover, with flexible support that meets their needs. That is why I welcome my colleague David Melding's strategy document, 'More than a Refuge'. Thank you very much, David; well done. This document puts the issue of homelessness and rough-sleeping at the forefront of our political priorities. It commits us to the ambitious targets of ending rough-sleeping in Wales by 2026. A nationwide taskforce will undertake an extensive programme to uncover the full extent of homelessness in Wales. The problems associated with hostels would be addressed by a review into emergency and temporary accommodation. This would lead to the setting of a target for providing long-term housing solutions. The Royal British Legion estimates that there are 6,000 homeless veterans in the United Kingdom. This strategy calls for 150 empty social housing properties to be brought back, which was just mentioned by our colleague, back into use specifically for military veterans at risk of homelessness, and it calls for the appointment of a homeless tsar to co-ordinate policy development and delivery.
Deputy Presiding Officer, this report has been welcomed by many housing charities and organisations. If we work together across the Assembly, we can eradicate rough-sleeping and prevent homelessness in Wales; we can give people the opportunity to access safe and secure homes and provide a solid foundation to improve their quality of life. I personally met some of the homeless people in Newport and everybody had a different story to tell. I think I need another half an hour to tell my colleagues, but I've got only a few seconds. But, believe me, nobody—nobody—wants to live on those rough streets, they need safe, secure and protected homes where they can live their lives peacefully and they can contribute to the community, because there's a sad story to tell about every one of the 158 homeless people in this country and as I said earlier, it's a shame to us. We must do something and it's about time; we have to do it now. Thank you.
Mae gan bawb hawl sylfaenol i dŷ. Mae gan bobl yr hawl i gartref diogel a gweddus sy'n fforddiadwy gyda'r rhyddid rhag cael eu gorfodi i adael. Mae'n ddyletswydd ar Lywodraeth i warantu y gall pawb arfer eu hawl i fyw mewn lle diogel, heddychlon ac urddasol. Mae'n fater o bryder, felly, fod ystadegau tai diweddar yn dangos gostyngiad yn y lefelau adeiladu tai yng Nghymru. Mae nifer yr anheddau newydd a ddechreuwyd yn ail chwarter y flwyddyn hon 7 y cant yn is na flwyddyn yn gynharach. Yn ogystal, mae nifer yr aelwydydd yng Nghymru sydd dan fygythiad o ddigartrefedd wedi cynyddu.
Cysgu ar y stryd yw'r math mwyaf gweladwy o ddigartrefedd. Rydym yn byw yn un o'r gwledydd mwyaf datblygedig a llwyddiannus yn y byd—y bumed gyfoethocaf fel mae'n digwydd—ac edrychwch ar hyn, pobl yn dal i fyw ar y strydoedd ac o dan draffyrdd, mae'n gwbl annerbyniol. Mae'r ffaith bod gennym bobl o hyd heb gartref ac yn cysgu ar ein strydoedd yn destun cywilydd i bawb ohonom. Yn ein trefi a'n dinasoedd, mae gweld pebyll yn ymddangos ar gylchfannau a chloddiau glaswellt ac ochrau ffyrdd yn digwydd yn rhy gyffredin y dyddiau hyn. Y llynedd, cyfrifodd awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru 158 o bobl yn cysgu ar y stryd ledled Cymru. Fodd bynnag, mae'r dull a ddefnyddiwyd i wneud y cyfrifiad wedi cael ei feirniadu'n eang. Cafodd ei alw'n hen ffasiwn gan Shelter Cymru, gyda Chyngor Sir Ddinbych yn adrodd mai dim ond un person yn unig oedd yn cysgu ar y stryd.
Yn hanesyddol, mae gwasanaethau digartrefedd ar gyfer rhai sy'n cysgu ar y stryd wedi cael eu darparu gan hosteli, ond mae llawer o bobl sy'n cysgu ar y stryd yn dewis peidio â defnyddio hosteli. Mae'r rhesymau a roddant yn cynnwys problemau cyffuriau, alcohol a thrais dwys. Mae pobl ddigartref yn aml wedi datblygu problemau caethiwed ac iechyd meddwl difrifol tra'u bod yn byw ar y strydoedd. Mae'r holl ffactorau hyn yn cyfuno i wneud hosteli yn ddewis anneniadol. Gelwais yn y Siambr hon yn y gorffennol am atebion arloesol i gael pobl ddigartref oddi ar y strydoedd. Yng Nghasnewydd, agorodd yr elusen Amazing Grace Spaces bodiau cysgu i ddarparu llochesi dros dro diogel. Mewn ymateb i fy nghwestiwn yn croesawu hyn, dywedodd y Prif Weinidog:
'er y gall atebion arloesol fod o gymorth yn y presennol, yr ateb hirdymor i fynd i'r afael â'r problemau tai yr ydym ni'n eu hwynebu ar draws y wlad yw mwy o gartrefi parhaol'.
Rwy'n cytuno â'r dyfyniad, Lywydd. Mae angen i ni ddiwallu anghenion cymhleth pobl sy'n cysgu ar ein strydoedd. Mae angen gweithredu beiddgar ar frys. Mae angen strategaeth sy'n atal cysgu ar y stryd cyn iddo ddigwydd, strategaeth sy'n ymyrryd ar bob pwynt argyfwng ac yn helpu pobl i wella'u sefyllfa, gyda chymorth hyblyg sy'n diwallu eu hanghenion. Dyna pam rwy'n croesawu dogfen strategaeth fy nghyd-Aelod, David Melding, 'Mwy na Lloches yn Unig'. Diolch yn fawr, David; da iawn. Mae'r ddogfen hon yn rhoi lle blaenllaw i ddigartrefedd a chysgu ar y stryd yn ein blaenoriaethau gwleidyddol. Mae'n ein hymrwymo i'r targedau uchelgeisiol ar gyfer dod â chysgu ar y stryd i ben yng Nghymru erbyn 2026. Bydd tasglu cenedlaethol yn ymgymryd â rhaglen helaeth i ddatgelu'r holl ddigartrefedd yng Nghymru. Byddai'r problemau sy'n gysylltiedig â hosteli'n cael eu datrys drwy adolygu llety argyfwng a llety dros dro. Byddai hyn yn arwain at osod targed ar gyfer darparu atebion hirdymor o ran tai. Mae'r Lleng Brydeinig Frenhinol yn amcangyfrif bod 6,000 o gyn-filwyr digartref yn y Deyrnas Unedig. Mae'r strategaeth hon yn galw am ailgyflwyno 150 o dai cymdeithasol gwag, rhywbeth a grybwyllwyd gan ein cyd-Aelod, yn benodol ar gyfer cyn-filwyr sydd mewn perygl o fynd yn ddigartref, ac mae'n galw am benodi tsar digartrefedd i gydlynu'r gwaith o ddatblygu a chyflawni polisïau.
Ddirprwy Lywydd, mae'r adroddiad hwn wedi cael ei groesawu gan lawer o elusennau a sefydliadau tai. Os gweithiwn gyda'n gilydd ar draws y Cynulliad, gallwn ddileu cysgu ar y stryd ac atal digartrefedd yng Nghymru; gallwn roi cyfle i bobl gael cartrefi saff a diogel a darparu sylfaen gadarn i wella ansawdd eu bywydau. Cyfarfûm yn bersonol â rhai o'r bobl ddigartref yng Nghasnewydd ac roedd gan bawb stori wahanol i'w hadrodd. Rwy'n credu bod angen hanner awr arall arnaf i ddweud wrth fy nghyd-Aelodau, ond dim ond ychydig eiliadau sydd gennyf. Ond credwch fi, nid oes neb—neb—eisiau byw ar y strydoedd geirwon hynny, maent angen cartrefi diogel a saff lle gallant fyw eu bywydau mewn heddwch a chyfrannu at y gymuned, oherwydd mae stori drist i'w hadrodd am bob un o'r 158 o bobl ddigartref yn y wlad hon ac fel y dywedais yn gynharach, mae'n destun cywilydd i ni. Rhaid inni wneud rhywbeth ac mae'n hen bryd; rhaid inni ei wneud yn awr. Diolch.
I must say, in my experience, the public believe that, in the fifth or sixth biggest economy in the world, it's a terrible indictment of the UK that so many people are sleeping rough and at risk of homelessness. People see it as morally indefensible, and indeed it is. I don't think we can get away from the background of UK Government austerity over something like a 10-year period in terms of the background to that situation, because the cuts to public services year on year and the cumulative effect have put those services in a state where it's increasingly difficult for them, more and more difficult for them, to provide the support that is necessary. I do believe we have to recognise that, and also recognise the effect of universal credit. In the work that the equality committee has done around homelessness and rough-sleeping we've heard about the very direct and practical effect of universal credit and how that has made these problems worse. The initial waiting periods to claim benefit, the inability of the housing benefit element to be paid direct to the tenant, and many other aspects have increased the problems of homelessness and rough-sleeping.
I will take an intervention.
Rhaid imi ddweud, yn fy mhrofiad i, mae'r cyhoedd yn credu, yn y bumed neu'r chweched economi fwyaf yn y byd, ei fod yn gyhuddiad ofnadwy yn erbyn y DU fod cynifer o bobl yn cysgu ar y stryd ac mewn perygl o fod yn ddigartref. Mae pobl yn ei ystyried yn anamddiffynadwy'n foesol, ac mae hynny'n wir. Nid wyf yn credu y gallwn osgoi cefndir o gyni Llywodraeth y DU dros gyfnod tebyg i 10 mlynedd o ran y cefndir i'r sefyllfa honno, oherwydd mae'r toriadau i wasanaethau cyhoeddus o flwyddyn i flwyddyn a'r effaith gronnol wedi rhoi'r gwasanaethau hynny mewn sefyllfa lle mae'n gynyddol anodd iddynt, yn fwyfwy anodd iddynt ddarparu'r cymorth angenrheidiol. Rwy'n credu bod yn rhaid i ni gydnabod hynny, a chydnabod effaith credyd cynhwysol hefyd. Yn y gwaith y mae'r pwyllgor cydraddoldeb wedi'i wneud ar ddigartrefedd a chysgu ar y stryd clywsom am effaith uniongyrchol ac ymarferol iawn credyd cynhwysol a sut y mae wedi gwaethygu'r problemau hyn. Mae'r cyfnodau aros cychwynnol ar gyfer hawlio budd-daliadau, anallu i dalu'r elfen budd-dal tai yn uniongyrchol i'r tenant, a llawer o agweddau eraill wedi cynyddu problemau digartrefedd a chysgu ar y stryd.
Fe gymeraf ymyriad.
Thank you, John Griffiths, very much for taking an intervention. I don't disagree with a lot of your analysis there, but I would like to make the point that 40 years ago, when I lived in London, I used to go out Wednesday night and Saturday night for about three years with various organisations working with homeless people on the streets of London. They were there then, they are there now, and that's the real shame. It's not a consequence of the last decade; it is a consequence of our society not dealing with a deep-rooted problem that's been in existence for the 40 years that I used to work with them.
Diolch yn fawr iawn am dderbyn yr ymyriad, John Griffiths. Nid wyf yn anghytuno â llawer o'ch dadansoddiad, ond hoffwn wneud y pwynt, pan oeddwn yn byw yn Llundain 40 mlynedd yn ôl, roeddwn yn arfer mynd allan nos Fercher a nos Sadwrn am oddeutu tair blynedd gyda sefydliadau amrywiol a oedd yn gweithio gyda phobl ddigartref ar strydoedd Llundain. Roeddent yno bryd hynny, maent yno yn awr, a dyna'r trueni mawr. Nid yw'n ganlyniad i'r degawd diwethaf; mae'n ganlyniad i'r ffaith nad yw ein cymdeithas yn ymdrin â phroblem anodd sydd wedi bodoli er pan oeddwn yn arfer gweithio gyda hwy 40 mlynedd yn ôl.
None of us would say that the problems haven't existed over—[Interruption.]
Ni fyddai neb ohonom yn dweud nad yw'r problemau wedi bodoli dros—[Torri ar draws.]
Thank you. There's no need for that. We're trying to have this in a spirit of cross-party, cross-bench consensus. I'm just going to say: can we just carry on in the same vein as this has gone? There's fault on all sides occasionally, so just let's think about it.
Diolch. Nid oes angen hynny. Rydym yn ceisio cynnal hyn mewn ysbryd o gonsensws trawsbleidiol ar draws y meinciau. Rwyf am ddweud hyn: a gawn ni barhau yn yr un cywair â'r hyn a gafwyd? Mae bai ar bob ochr weithiau, felly beth am i ni feddwl am hynny.
Okay. I don't think any of us would deny that there are long-standing problems. Many of us would look to the experience of the Thatcher Governments over a period of time—you know, the sale of council houses without the ability to use the proceeds to build new council housing, the concentration on private purchase. We know now, for example, that the constant pressure of low wages and high rent in the private rented sector—and this is through some of the work that Crisis has commissioned in terms of the position in Wales at the moment—has resulted in 82 per cent of the areas in Wales having less than one in five single people or couples or families with one or two children being able to afford a private rented sector property. Eighty-two per cent of areas in Wales, less than one in five being able to afford properties in the private rented sector if they're in those categories. That's the sort of situation we're in at the moment. I do believe that universal credit needs to be addressed, and indeed the committee that I chair, the equality committee, is doing work on that, and I hope we can get to a better position in Wales in fairly short order.
Dirprwy Lywydd, I've said what I've said in my opening remarks, but I do nonetheless welcome the initiative by the Welsh Conservatives with the action plan and bringing this debate to the Assembly today. I think the human rights approach is very interesting, and the recognition of the level of support that is necessary, and of course we do need to build many more social housing properties, and I think that's been widely recognised as well. But we do have to look at the wider picture as well, and there are many other factors that come into play.
The committee that I chair has done a lot of work on rough-sleeping and homelessness. We know that Housing First is extremely important and I welcome the Welsh Government's pilot schemes. It's about having a high level of support for people with complex needs and making sure that that's in place and that the housing that's provided is appropriate and adequate. We know that assertive outreach has to be a stronger feature of what's delivered on our streets. I've been out with the Wallich; others talked about the Wallich as well. They do some amazing work, and that needs to be strengthened and further developed.
I do believe that, yes, there are areas where Welsh Government has made changes that have been counterproductive, and I would refer to prisoners in that regard. I do believe legislative change around housing did create difficulties, and the pathway that was put in in place of priority need for prisoners hasn’t worked effectively. It does need change. I know change has taken place, but further change is needed. Yes, Welsh Government has a responsibility here, and we need to make sure that the mental health services join up with the substance misuse services much more effectively. There are real barriers there that need to be overcome.
I very much welcome the Crisis report, Dirprwy Lywydd, I think it is very much on a footing with the work that my committee has done. So, I welcome the involvement the Welsh Government has made for Crisis in the work that they’ve done and in the action group.
And just finally, we do need a long-term approach, and I think everybody’s talked about that. We need to be much more preventative. But I nonetheless welcome the focus of the action group of Welsh Government and Crisis in talking about this winter. Every winter there are deaths among rough-sleepers. It is an absolute crisis at winter time. There is a joined-up response from the third sector, from churches, from local government, from agencies, but it’s a massive challenge and we have to be alive to that challenge this winter, before we get to a better long-term solution.
O'r gorau. Nid wyf yn credu y byddai unrhyw un ohonom yn gwadu bod problemau hirsefydlog yn bodoli. Byddai llawer ohonom yn ystyried profiad Llywodraethau Thatcher dros gyfnod o amser—wyddoch chi, gwerthu tai cyngor heb y gallu i ddefnyddio'r enillion i adeiladu tai cyngor newydd, y canolbwyntio ar brynu preifat. Gwyddom yn awr, er enghraifft, fod pwysau cyson cyflogau isel a rhenti uchel yn y sector rhentu preifat—a hynny drwy rywfaint o'r gwaith y mae Crisis wedi ei gomisiynu ar y sefyllfa yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd—wedi arwain at sefyllfa lle mae 82 y cant o'r ardaloedd yng Nghymru â llai nag un o bob pum person sengl neu gyplau neu deuluoedd gydag un neu ddau o blant yn gallu fforddio eiddo yn y sector rhentu preifat. Dyna 82 y cant o'r ardaloedd yng Nghymru, lle mae llai nag un o bob pump yn gallu fforddio eiddo yn y sector rhentu preifat os ydynt yn y categorïau hynny. Dyna'r math o sefyllfa rydym ynddi ar hyn o bryd. Rwy'n credu bod angen mynd i'r afael â chredyd cynhwysol, ac yn wir mae'r pwyllgor rwy'n ei gadeirio, y pwyllgor cydraddoldeb, yn gwneud gwaith ar hynny, ac rwy'n gobeithio y gallwn gyrraedd sefyllfa well yng Nghymru, a hynny'n fuan.
Ddirprwy Lywydd, rwyf wedi dweud yr hyn a ddywedais yn fy sylwadau agoriadol, ond er hynny rwy'n croesawu'r fenter gan y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig gyda'r cynllun gweithredu a chyflwyno'r ddadl hon i'r Cynulliad heddiw. Rwy'n credu bod yr elfen hawliau dynol yn ddiddorol iawn, a'r gydnabyddiaeth i lefel y cymorth sy'n angenrheidiol, ac wrth gwrs mae angen i ni adeiladu llawer mwy o dai cymdeithasol, ac rwy'n credu bod hynny wedi cael ei gydnabod yn eang hefyd. Ond mae'n rhaid i ni edrych ar y darlun ehangach yn ogystal, ac mae llawer o ffactorau eraill yn dod yn weithredol.
Mae'r pwyllgor a gadeiriaf wedi gwneud llawer o waith ar gysgu ar y stryd a digartrefedd. Gwyddom fod Tai yn Gyntaf yn eithriadol o bwysig ac rwy'n croesawu cynlluniau peilot Llywodraeth Cymru. Mae'n ymwneud â chael lefel uchel o gymorth i bobl ag anghenion cymhleth a sicrhau bod hynny ar waith a bod y tai a ddarperir yn briodol ac yn ddigonol. Gwyddom fod rhaid i allgymorth grymusol fod yn nodwedd gryfach o'r hyn a ddarperir ar ein strydoedd. Rwyf wedi bod allan gyda Wallich; soniodd eraill am Wallich hefyd. Maent yn gwneud gwaith anhygoel, ac mae angen cryfhau hynny a'i ddatblygu ymhellach.
Rwy'n credu bod yna feysydd lle mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gwneud newidiadau sydd wedi bod yn wrthgynhyrchiol, a buaswn yn cyfeirio at garcharorion yn hynny o beth. Rwy'n credu bod newid deddfwriaethol mewn perthynas â thai wedi creu anawsterau, ac nid yw'r llwybr a sefydlwyd yn lle angen blaenoriaethol i garcharorion wedi gweithio'n effeithiol. Mae angen ei newid. Rwy'n gwybod bod newid wedi digwydd, ond mae angen rhagor o newid. Oes, mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru gyfrifoldeb yma, ac mae angen i ni wneud yn siŵr bod y gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl yn cysylltu â'r gwasanaethau camddefnyddio sylweddau yn llawer mwy effeithiol. Ceir rhwystrau gwirioneddol y mae angen eu goresgyn.
Rwy'n croesawu adroddiad Crisis yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Credaf ei fod yn cyd-fynd yn dda â'r gwaith y mae fy mhwyllgor wedi'i wneud. Felly, rwy'n croesawu'r rhan y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i roi i Crisis yn y gwaith a wnaethant ac yn y grŵp gweithredu.
Ac yn olaf, mae arnom angen dull gweithredu hirdymor, a chredaf fod pawb wedi siarad am hynny. Mae angen inni fod yn llawer mwy ataliol. Fodd bynnag, rwy'n croesawu ffocws grŵp gweithredu Llywodraeth Cymru a Crisis wrth sôn am y gaeaf hwn. Bob gaeaf ceir marwolaethau ymhlith pobl sy'n cysgu ar y stryd. Mae'n argyfwng llwyr yn ystod y gaeaf. Ceir ymateb cydgysylltiedig gan y trydydd sector, gan eglwysi, gan lywodraeth leol, gan asiantaethau, ond mae'n her enfawr a rhaid inni fod yn effro i'r her honno y gaeaf hwn, cyn inni gyrraedd ateb hirdymor gwell.
I welcome this debate. It’s hard out there when you've got nobody. I stand here today as a mum to a serving soldier in the British army and as someone who was homeless for short time as a young 15-year-old person. Due to a really bad home life, I needed somewhere to stay, so I lived in a caravan with friends in return for odd jobs with a travelling fair. Six week later, when I was assaulted and almost raped, I had no choice but to return home to further assaults from my stepmother. That went on and on. I was going round in circles for years. I didn't know where to turn, so I think I was what we call today a 'sofa surfer'. I felt under pressure, without foundations, very insecure and totally worthless. But due to my home situation, this appeared to be the best choice open to me at that point.
That experience has driven many of my decisions in life: to work hard, to support myself, and to keep a roof over my head and the heads of my children, beholden to nobody. My son is still a serving soldier and has seen active service, including various tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, and it is the thought of veterans in particular that has motivated me to speak today.
I know that the causes of homelessness are many, varied and complex, and that each person will have a different story to the next. Wales though is a very small nation with very complex layers of public and support services. Where do you go? Where do you start? I do know that there are pockets of good practice. Housing First, for example, has been identified, I believe, as best practice some years ago and it makes perfect sense to truly support someone to be able to manage their tenancy, rather than simply handing them the keys and leaving them to it. That’s a recipe for failure. So, I don't understand why Housing First and indeed any other area of good practice is not now rolled out across the whole of Wales. Sleep pods appear to have been ignored and discounted, and also container homes—flexible and moveable—appear not to have really taken off. I don't know why.
I know that there is an action group advising the Minister. I welcome this, but Welsh Labour has had 20 years and more to do something, achieve something, horizon-scan and study demographics and population change. I'm deeply concerned that we appear to have sleepwalked into this current crisis where our people are literally dying on our streets. Action plans, action groups, strategies are lovely, but we are not seeing the results we would hope for for that young person or that veteran who really does need that support. And it looks like nobody’s listening, because they're all looking down at the computers and really not listening. This is reality out there, and none of you have been through that kind of stuff, so you really should listen. [Interruption.]
My view is that no party has a monopoly on good ideas and I welcome this thoughtful report by the Conservatives. But I would say that 'busy' does not mean effective, and it's time to really make a difference in this area. People need hope, people need safety, they need stability. And all people need a home.
Rwy'n croesawu'r ddadl hon. Mae'n anodd pan nad oes gennych neb. Rwy'n sefyll yma heddiw fel mam i filwr sy'n gwasanaethu yn y fyddin Brydeinig ac fel rhywun a oedd yn ddigartref am gyfnod byr yn berson ifanc 15 oed. Oherwydd bywyd cartref gwirioneddol wael, roeddwn angen rhywle i aros, felly roeddwn yn byw mewn carafán gyda ffrindiau yn gyfnewid am wneud gwaith achlysurol gyda ffair deithiol. Chwe wythnos yn ddiweddarach, ymosodwyd arnaf a bu bron i mi gael fy nhreisio, ac nid oedd gennyf ddewis ond dychwelyd adref i ddioddef ymosodiadau pellach gan fy llysfam. Aeth hynny ymlaen ac ymlaen. Roeddwn i'n mynd rownd mewn cylchoedd am flynyddoedd. Ni wyddwn ble i droi, felly rwy'n credu fy mod yr hyn rydym yn ei alw heddiw'n 'syrffiwr soffas'. Roeddwn yn teimlo o dan bwysau, heb sylfaen, yn ansicr iawn ac yn gwbl ddiwerth. Ond oherwydd y sefyllfa gartref, ymddangosai mai dyma'r dewis gorau a oedd ar gael i mi ar y pwynt hwnnw.
Mae'r profiad hwnnw wedi llywio llawer o fy mhenderfyniadau mewn bywyd: i weithio'n galed, cynnal fy hun, a chadw to dros fy mhen a dros bennau fy mhlant, heb fod arnaf ddim i neb. Mae fy mab yn dal i wasanaethu fel milwr ac wedi bod ar wasanaeth gweithredol, gan gynnwys teithiau amrywiol yn Irac ac Affganistan, a meddwl am gyn-filwyr yn arbennig sydd wedi fy nghymell i siarad heddiw.
Gwn fod achosion digartrefedd yn niferus, yn amrywiol ac yn gymhleth, ac y bydd gan bob person stori wahanol. Fodd bynnag, gwlad fach iawn yw Cymru a chanddi haenau cymhleth iawn o wasanaethau cyhoeddus a chymorth. Ble mae mynd? Ble mae dechrau? Gwn fod pocedi o arferion da. Soniwyd am Tai yn Gyntaf, er enghraifft, fel ymarfer gorau rai blynyddoedd yn ôl rwy'n credu ac mae'n gwneud synnwyr perffaith i roi cymorth go iawn i rywun allu rheoli eu tenantiaeth, yn hytrach na dim ond rhoi'r allweddi iddynt a'u gadael iddi. Mae hynny'n sicr o fethu. Felly, nid wyf yn deall pam nad yw Tai yn Gyntaf nac unrhyw faes arall o ymarfer da yn cael ei gyflwyno ar draws Cymru gyfan erbyn hyn. Mae'n ymddangos bod podiau cysgu wedi cael eu hanwybyddu a'u diystyru, ac nid yw'n ymddangos bod cartrefi cynwysyddion—hyblyg a symudol—wedi bod yn llwyddiant mawr. Nid wyf yn gwybod pam.
Gwn fod grŵp gweithredu'n cynghori'r Gweinidog. Rwy'n croesawu hyn, ond mae Llafur Cymru wedi cael 20 mlynedd a mwy i wneud rhywbeth, i gyflawni rhywbeth, i sganio'r gorwel ac i astudio demograffeg a newid yn y boblogaeth. Rwy'n bryderus iawn ei bod yn ymddangos fel pe baem wedi cerdded yn ein cwsg i mewn i'r argyfwng presennol lle mae ein pobl yn llythrennol yn marw ar ein strydoedd. Mae cynlluniau gweithredu, grwpiau gweithredu, strategaethau yn hyfryd, ond nid ydym yn gweld y canlyniadau y byddem yn gobeithio amdanynt i'r person ifanc neu'r cyn-filwr sydd angen y cymorth mewn gwirionedd. Ac mae'n edrych fel pe na bai neb yn gwrando, oherwydd maent i gyd yn edrych i lawr ar y cyfrifiaduron ac nid ydynt yn gwrando. Dyma'r realiti, ac nid oes yr un ohonoch wedi bod drwy'r math hwnnw o beth, felly fe ddylech wrando. [Torri ar draws.]
Fy marn i yw nad oes gan yr un blaid fonopoli ar syniadau da ac rwy'n croesawu'r adroddiad meddylgar hwn gan y Ceidwadwyr. Ond buaswn yn dweud nad yw 'prysur' yn golygu effeithiol, ac mae'n bryd gwneud gwahaniaeth gwirioneddol yn y maes hwn. Mae pobl angen gobaith, mae pobl angen diogelwch, maent angen sefydlogrwydd. Ac mae pawb angen cartref.
Can I now call the Minister for Housing and Local Government, Julie James?
A gaf fi alw yn awr ar y Gweinidog Tai a Llywodraeth Leol, Julie James?
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I want to start off by welcoming David Melding's first remarks about working across the Chamber, and to echo the First Minister's welcome of good ideas from any source, and echo them. So, I think there is much to be commended in the Conservatives' plan, and also, actually, in Plaid Cymru's plan. And I think we do have some shared agendas across the Chamber, and I'd very much like to work with people to discover how we can take our shared agenda forward. But I do also want to say that I am always quite astonished by people's complete lack of comprehension about the problems created by poverty and, in particular, by universal credit roll-out and other things.
So, let me just tell you one of them, so if you're really concerned, you can join Crisis's campaign on this. The local housing allowance has been zero rated since 2016—for four years. So, the result of that is that if you're in the private rented sector and you're on universal credit, you are paying the difference between the local housing allowance and the rent in that sector. That is driving homelessness. That is a direct Conservative Party policy. I don't know what's going to happen next year, but if you have any influence on that, please try to bring it to bear, because we have written repeatedly to say that, clearly, this is driving people out of the private rented sector—and you're absolutely right, we need to build more social housing and you're absolutely right, we're going as fast as possible since the Conservative Government saw sense and took the caps off, only at the end of last year. All this talk about 20 years—we have not been allowed to do it until last year. Now we are allowed to do it, we are doing it at pace and scale. You're helping us with that—you share that agenda, I know. But we also need to make sure that people in the private rented sector can afford their rents, and at the moment they cannot. So, if you want to do something, do that.
Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwyf am ddechrau drwy groesawu sylwadau cyntaf David Melding am weithio ar draws y Siambr, ac adleisio croeso'r Prif Weinidog i syniadau da o unrhyw ffynhonnell, a'u hadleisio. Felly, rwy'n credu bod llawer i'w ganmol yng nghynllun y Ceidwadwyr, a hefyd, mewn gwirionedd, yng nghynllun Plaid Cymru. Ac rwy'n meddwl bod gennym ni rai agendâu a rennir ar draws y Siambr, ac rwy'n awyddus iawn i weithio gyda phobl i ddarganfod sut y gallwn fwrw ymlaen â'n hagenda ar y cyd. Ond rwyf am ddweud hefyd fy mod bob amser yn rhyfeddu at ddiffyg dealltwriaeth lwyr pobl o'r problemau a grëir gan dlodi ac yn arbennig, gan gyflwyno credyd cynhwysol a phethau eraill.
Felly, gadewch i mi ddweud un ohonynt wrthych, felly os ydych chi'n wirioneddol bryderus, gallwch ymuno ag ymgyrch Crisis ar hyn. Mae'r lwfans tai lleol wedi bod yn ddim ers 2016—ers pedair blynedd. Felly, canlyniad hynny, os ydych yn y sector rhentu preifat a'ch bod ar gredyd cynhwysol, yw eich bod yn talu'r gwahaniaeth rhwng y lwfans tai lleol a'r rhent yn y sector hwnnw. Mae hynny'n hybu digartrefedd. Mae'n bolisi uniongyrchol gan y Blaid Geidwadol. Nid wyf yn gwybod beth sy'n mynd i ddigwydd y flwyddyn nesaf, ond os oes gennych unrhyw ddylanwad ar hynny, ceisiwch wneud, gan ein bod wedi ysgrifennu dro ar ôl tro i ddweud bod hyn, yn amlwg, yn gyrru pobl allan o'r sector rhentu preifat—ac rydych chi'n gywir, mae angen i ni adeiladu mwy o dai cymdeithasol ac rydych chi'n gywir, rydym yn mynd mor gyflym â phosibl ers i'r Llywodraeth Geidwadol weld synnwyr a thynnu'r capiau, ddiwedd y llynedd. Mae'r holl sôn am 20 mlynedd—nid ydym wedi cael gwneud hynny tan y llynedd. Rydym yn cael gwneud hynny yn awr, rydym yn ei wneud yn gyflym ac ar raddfa fawr. Rydych yn ein helpu gyda hynny—rydych yn rhannu'r agenda honno, rwy'n gwybod. Ond mae angen i ni hefyd sicrhau bod pobl yn y sector rhentu preifat yn gallu fforddio eu rhenti, ac ar hyn o bryd ni allant wneud hynny. Felly, os ydych am wneud rhywbeth, gwnewch hynny.
Will you take an intervention?
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?
Certainly.
Yn bendant.
Do you have anything to say about numbers? I know that there—of course there was homelessness 40 years ago, and it would have been more prevalent in London—of course. But the actual numbers of people that you can see sleeping on the streets now is much greater than anything I've ever experienced before, and I think it's down to the reasons that you've described there. Do you have any evidence to suggest that the volume of homelessness is a much bigger problem than it was, say, 40 years ago?
Oes gennych chi unrhyw beth i'w ddweud am niferoedd? Gwn fod yna—wrth gwrs, fod digartrefedd yn bodoli 40 mlynedd yn ôl, a byddai wedi bod yn fwy cyffredin yn Llundain—wrth gwrs. Ond mae'r niferoedd gwirioneddol o bobl y gallwch eu gweld yn cysgu ar y strydoedd yn awr yn llawer uwch nag unrhyw beth a welais erioed o'r blaen, ac rwy'n credu ei fod yn ymwneud â'r rhesymau rydych wedi'u disgrifio. A oes gennych unrhyw dystiolaeth i awgrymu bod nifer y digartref yn broblem fwy o lawer nag oedd hi, dyweder, 40 mlynedd yn ôl?
Yes, we do have some evidence. The numbers are problematic, because we do them in spot checks and we do them in rough-sleep accounts. And we know, for example, that it's very difficult to get women in rough-sleep accounts. We know that because they tend to walk all night and sleep in the day because it's safer and so on. So, the numbers are problematic. We do have data. We have got preventative measures here in Wales that have, I think, stemmed the flow a little, but you are fighting a rising tide.
Deputy Presiding Officer, this is not the first time I've spoken about homelessness in this Chamber in this term. It's only two weeks since I made by statement, so I'm not going to repeat some of those things. But we have to stem the tide as well as address the issues at the sharp end. And we have to do both of those things or we will continue to see the pressure of people falling out of suitable accommodation. But that single thing, if you want to really do something—change the local housing allowance element of universal credit and you will certainly turn off one of those taps.
So, we are working very hard with the levers we do have in our control. We're investing over £20 million this year alone in increasing our housing supply. And unlike the UK Government, we have never moved away from supporting the delivery of social housing. I could not agree with my colleague Mike Hedges more: the building of council housing is the only way forward out of this. So, we have taken significant strides forward in embedding that preventative approach and in increasing our supplies. [Interruption.] Certainly, Mark.
Oes, mae gennym rywfaint o dystiolaeth. Mae'r niferoedd yn broblemus, oherwydd rydym yn eu gwneud mewn hapwiriadau ac rydym yn eu gwneud mewn cyfrifiadau o bobl sy'n cysgu ar y stryd. Ac rydym yn gwybod, er enghraifft, ei bod yn anodd iawn cyrraedd menywod mewn cyfrifiadau o bobl sy'n cysgu ar y stryd. Rydym yn gwybod hynny oherwydd eu bod yn tueddu i gerdded drwy'r nos a chysgu yn ystod y dydd oherwydd ei bod yn fwy diogel ac yn y blaen. Felly, mae'r niferoedd yn broblemus. Mae gennym ddata. Mae gennym fesurau ataliol yma yng Nghymru y credaf eu bod wedi atal ychydig ar y llif, ond rydych yn ymladd llanw cynyddol.
Ddirprwy Lywydd, nid dyma'r tro cyntaf i mi siarad am ddigartrefedd yn y Siambr yn ystod y tymor hwn. Pythefnos yn unig sydd yna ers i mi wneud datganiad, felly nid wyf am ailadrodd rhai o'r pethau hynny. Ond mae'n rhaid i ni atal y llanw yn ogystal â mynd i'r afael â'r problemau yn y pen gwaethaf. Ac mae'n rhaid i ni wneud y ddau beth neu byddwn yn parhau i weld y pwysau wrth i bobl adael llety addas. Ond yr un peth hwnnw, os ydych am wneud rhywbeth go iawn—newidiwch yr elfen lwfans tai lleol yn y credyd cynhwysol a byddwch yn sicr o gau un o'r tapiau hynny.
Felly, rydym yn gweithio'n galed iawn gyda'r ysgogiadau sydd gennym o fewn ein rheolaeth. Rydym yn buddsoddi dros £20 miliwn eleni'n unig i gynyddu ein cyflenwad tai. Ac yn wahanol i Lywodraeth y DU, nid ydym erioed wedi cilio rhag cefnogi'r gwaith o ddarparu tai cymdeithasol. Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â fy nghyd-Aelod, Mike Hedges: adeiladu tai cyngor yw'r unig ffordd ymlaen. Felly, rydym wedi cymryd camau breision ymlaen o ran gwreiddio'r dull ataliol hwnnw a chynyddu ein cyflenwadau. [Torri ar draws.] Yn sicr, Mark.
You say you've never cut social housing, and I take it you're referring to this Government, because your own Government statistics will prove that they were reduced massively in the first three Assembly terms and flatlined thereafter. The social housing grant was still building social houses through registered social landlords, and by the time the Conservative Government left power in 1997 in London, the rate of replacement for those sold were almost on a par—it crashed after 1997 and crashed even further after 1999. Look at the figures.
Rydych yn dweud nad ydych erioed wedi torri tai cymdeithasol, ac rwy'n cymryd eich bod yn cyfeirio at y Llywodraeth hon, oherwydd bydd ystadegau eich Llywodraeth eich hun yn profi iddynt gael eu torri'n aruthrol yn nhri thymor cyntaf y Cynulliad a'u bod wedi gwastatáu wedi hynny. Roedd y grant tai cymdeithasol yn dal i adeiladu tai cymdeithasol drwy landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig, ac erbyn i'r Llywodraeth Geidwadol golli grym yn 1997 yn Llundain, roedd y gyfradd adnewyddu yn lle'r rhai a werthwyd bron yn gyfartal—fe gwympodd ar ôl 1997 a chwympo hyd yn oed ymhellach ar ôl 1999. Edrychwch ar y ffigurau.
I have looked at the figures, and you are, very neatly, avoiding the point that your Government has repeatedly refused to allow council houses to be built using the proceeds of the sale of council houses. [Interruption.] You diminished the supply. I was also in London 40 years ago—40 years ago was when the Thatcher Government came in and decimated the supply of social housing. So, there is much that we can agree on in this Chamber, but there are some fundamentals we will never agree on, and one of them is that, if you decimate the supply of social housing, you get homelessness. And that is what we are currently seeing.
We published a strategic policy statement only two weeks ago, recognising the need to look afresh at our approach. The strategy is focused completely on the prevention of homelessness and, in those rare circumstances where it can't be prevented, to minimise the damage it causes, focusing on rapid rehousing, ensuring homelessness is rare, brief and unrepeated. The approach does seek to support those currently experiencing homelessness into long-term, secure accommodation, whilst significantly reducing the flow into homelessness at the same time. Many Members in this Chamber have made this point: they've made the point about Housing First, which we are embracing. We're investing £1.6 million this year in our pilot projects. To be clear: Housing First is not a silver bullet; it's one aspect of a rapid rehousing approach. We need to take a whole-system approach if we're to shift our model of service delivery. And legislation must be seen as the last line of defence in preventing homelessness, not the first.
Deputy Presiding Officer, I will also say this to our local authority colleagues: the 56-day point is not a target, it's a backstop. I do not want to see local authorities telling me that they have managed to meet their obligations because people have been looked at at 56 days when they could have been looked at at 63 days, 110 days, or whatever it is. So, I agree completely with Leanne Wood. This is about changing hearts and mind inside the system administration. And in order to do that, and in response to the action group's report, I have spoken, or my officials have spoken, with all the council leaders and chief executives of the four big cities in Wales where the pinch points are—I'm sorry to use that term, but where the bulk of homeless people arrive. Because that's where services are and that's often where they can get some of the support that they need. And we have spoken to them about shifting the model inside those cities this winter, in response to the action group's recommendations, which we've accepted in full. And all of them, I'm very pleased to say, have embraced that wholeheartedly. We have now got assertive outreach training going on in all of those areas and then right across public services in Wales, alongside colleagues in health, social care and so on. And we will be working towards having a policy where we do not have any eviction or discharge into homelessness from any public service in Wales, as rapidly as we can shift the service to that line. So, I make no excuse for shifting that. We have to do something very quickly.
The action group has recommended that we look afresh at our approach, and I should also say, because many people have mentioned them, that we have particular pathways for veterans and people leaving prison. We are working specifically with task and finish groups on those pathways to see where they work, why they work, or, where they don't work, why they don't work, and pick that up. And, in particular, I've got a task and finish group working with Cardiff prison, Cardiff Council and my officials, looking to make sure that we don't have rotating people coming out of Cardiff prison onto the streets of Cardiff. Once we've got that sorted, we will roll it out across Wales. So, we are going with some pace to try to sort this out, I think.
I also completely agree with the disapplication of the Vagrancy Act. I've said this in a number of contributions in the Chamber this term, Deputy Presiding Officer, so I won't go through it again, as I've made our position very clear there. We're also taking legal advice on whether we can disapply any sections of it legally, but we're also working on voluntary agreements across Wales to make sure that councils and police forces step up to that plate. I'm also working with my colleague Lee Waters on a number of initiatives around bringing empty properties back into use across a number of council areas, and Mike Hedges will be delighted to know that Swansea's one of them. So, I'm very happy to do that.
So, I'm going to wrap up by saying this: look, I completely agree that we need a cross-Chamber embracing of where we can agree, and there is much we do agree about. So, I think we can do that. The things that we can't agree about, we can put to one side. I'm happy to pick up good ideas from across the Chamber, but also from across public services and sectors. So, I'm going to finish with this, Deputy Presiding Officer: I call on everyone here and all public service leaders across Wales to pledge to work in line with our policy principles to end homelessness. You'll have had the opportunity to read the strategic policy statement, the report from the action group and our response to that. We've also had loads of opportunities in Plenary and committee in the last few weeks to discuss this issue. Now we can turn those words into actions. We're entering a critical time of year for deaths on the street. I don't think the figures are accurate that we have, but any death is a death too many—let's be clear. Homeless people die in their 40s, slightly younger for women than for men—but in their 40s. It's appalling. So, we must do something about it because, here in Wales, together, we can and will end homelessness. Diolch.
Rwyf wedi edrych ar y ffigurau, ac rydych chi, yn daclus iawn, yn osgoi'r pwynt fod eich Llywodraeth wedi gwrthod caniatáu dro ar ôl tro i dai cyngor gael eu hadeiladu gan ddefnyddio'r elw o werthiant tai cyngor. [Torri ar draws.] Fe wnaethoch leihau'r cyflenwad. Roeddwn innau yn Llundain 40 mlynedd yn ôl hefyd—40 mlynedd yn ôl oedd hi pan ddaeth Llywodraeth Thatcher i mewn a dinistrio'r cyflenwad o dai cymdeithasol. Felly, mae llawer y gallwn gytuno arno yn y Siambr hon, ond mae rhai hanfodion na fyddwn byth yn cytuno arnynt, ac un ohonynt yw y byddwch yn cael digartrefedd os ydych yn dinistrio'r cyflenwad o dai cymdeithasol. A dyna a welwn ar hyn o bryd.
Gwnaethom gyhoeddi datganiad polisi strategol gwta bythefnos yn ôl, i gydnabod yr angen i edrych o'r newydd ar ein dull o weithredu. Mae'r strategaeth yn canolbwyntio'n llwyr ar atal digartrefedd ac yn yr amgylchiadau prin hynny lle na ellir ei atal, ar leihau'r niwed y mae'n ei achosi, canolbwyntio ar ailgartrefu'n gyflym, sicrhau bod digartrefedd yn ddigwyddiad prin, byr ac nad yw'n cael ei ailadrodd. Mae'r dull yn ceisio cynorthwyo'r rheini sy'n wynebu digartrefedd ar hyn o bryd i gael llety hirdymor diogel, gan leihau'r llif i ddigartrefedd ar yr un pryd. Mae llawer o Aelodau yn y Siambr hon wedi gwneud y pwynt: maent wedi gwneud y pwynt am Tai yn Gyntaf, cynllun a groesewir gennym. Rydym yn buddsoddi £1.6 miliwn eleni yn ein prosiectau peilot. I fod yn glir: nid yw Tai yn Gyntaf yn ateb i bob dim; mae'n un agwedd ar ddull ailgartrefu cyflym. Mae angen inni weithredu ar draws y system gyfan os ydym am newid ein model darparu gwasanaeth. A rhaid ystyried deddfwriaeth fel y llinell amddiffynol olaf i atal digartrefedd, nid y gyntaf.
Ddirprwy Lywydd, rwyf am ddweud hyn hefyd wrth ein cydweithwyr yn yr awdurdodau lleol: nid targed yw'r pwynt 56 diwrnod, ond cynllun wrth gefn. Nid wyf am weld awdurdodau lleol yn dweud wrthyf eu bod wedi llwyddo i gyflawni eu rhwymedigaethau am fod pobl wedi cael eu gweld cyn pen 56 o ddiwrnodau pan allent fod wedi cael eu gweld cyn pen 63 diwrnod, 110 diwrnod, neu beth bynnag y bo. Felly, rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â Leanne Wood. Mae hyn yn ymwneud â newid calonnau a meddyliau o fewn gweinyddiaeth y system. Ac er mwyn gwneud hynny, ac mewn ymateb i adroddiad y grŵp gweithredu, rwyf wedi siarad, neu mae fy swyddogion wedi siarad, â holl arweinwyr y cynghorau a phrif weithredwyr y pedair dinas fawr yng Nghymru lle mae'r pwyntiau cyfyng—mae'n ddrwg gennyf ddefnyddio'r term hwnnw, ond lle daw'r rhan fwyaf o bobl ddigartref iddynt. Oherwydd dyna lle mae gwasanaethau a dyna'n aml lle gallant gael rhywfaint o'r gefnogaeth sydd ei hangen arnynt. Ac rydym wedi siarad â hwy am symud y model yn y dinasoedd hynny y gaeaf hwn, mewn ymateb i argymhellion y grŵp gweithredu a dderbyniwyd gennym yn llawn. Ac mae pob un ohonynt, rwy'n falch iawn o ddweud, wedi croesawu hynny'n gyfan gwbl. Erbyn hyn mae hyfforddiant allgymorth grymusol ar waith ym mhob un o'r ardaloedd hynny ac ar draws y gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru, ynghyd â chydweithwyr ym maes iechyd, gofal cymdeithasol ac yn y blaen. A byddwn yn gweithio tuag at gael polisi lle nad oes unrhyw droi allan na rhyddhau pobl i ddigartrefedd gan unrhyw wasanaeth cyhoeddus yng Nghymru, cyn gynted ag y gallwn symud y gwasanaeth i'r llwybr hwnnw. Felly, nid wyf yn gwneud unrhyw esgus dros symud hynny yn ei flaen. Rhaid inni wneud rhywbeth yn gyflym iawn.
Mae'r grŵp gweithredu wedi argymell y dylem edrych o'r newydd ar ein dull o weithredu, a dylwn ddweud hefyd, oherwydd mae llawer o bobl wedi sôn amdanynt, fod gennym lwybrau penodol ar gyfer cyn-filwyr a phobl sy'n gadael y carchar. Rydym yn gweithio'n benodol gyda grwpiau gorchwyl a gorffen ar y llwybrau hynny i weld ble maent yn gweithio, pam eu bod yn gweithio, neu ble nad ydynt yn gweithio, pam nad ydynt yn gweithio, ac yn mynd ar drywydd hynny. Ac yn benodol, mae gennyf grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen yn gweithio gyda charchar Caerdydd, Cyngor Caerdydd a fy swyddogion, i wneud yn siŵr nad ydym yn cylchdroi pobl sy'n dod allan o garchar Caerdydd ar strydoedd Caerdydd. Pan fydd hynny wedi'i wneud, byddwn yn ei gyflwyno ledled Cymru. Felly, rwy'n credu ein bod yn mynd ati'n gyflym i geisio datrys hyn.
Rwyf hefyd yn cytuno'n llwyr â datgymhwyso'r Ddeddf Crwydradaeth. Rwyf wedi dweud hyn mewn nifer o gyfraniadau yn y Siambr y tymor hwn, Ddirprwy Lywydd, felly nid af drwyddo eto, gan fy mod wedi gwneud ein safbwynt yn glir iawn. Rydym hefyd yn cymryd cyngor cyfreithiol i weld a allwn ddatgymhwyso unrhyw adrannau ohoni'n gyfreithiol, ond rydym hefyd yn gweithio ar gytundebau gwirfoddol ledled Cymru i wneud yn siŵr bod cynghorau a heddluoedd yn cyflawni ar hynny. Rwyf hefyd yn cydweithio â fy nghyd-Aelod Lee Waters ar nifer o fentrau sy'n ymwneud â sicrhau bod eiddo gwag yn cael ei ddefnyddio unwaith eto ar draws nifer o ardaloedd cyngor, a bydd Mike Hedges yn falch iawn o wybod bod Abertawe yn un ohonynt. Felly, rwy'n hapus iawn i wneud hynny.
Felly, rwy'n mynd i orffen drwy ddweud hyn: edrychwch, rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr fod angen inni groesawu'r mannau y gallwn gytuno arnynt ar draws y Siambr, ac mae llawer rydym yn cytuno yn ei gylch. Felly, rwy'n credu y gallwn wneud hynny. Gallwn osod y pethau na allwn gytuno arnynt i'r naill ochr. Rwy'n fwy na pharod i glywed syniadau da o bob rhan o'r Siambr, ond hefyd o bob rhan o'r gwasanaethau cyhoeddus a'r sectorau. Felly, rwy'n mynd i orffen gyda hyn, Ddirprwy Lywydd: galwaf ar bawb yma a'r holl arweinwyr gwasanaethau cyhoeddus ledled Cymru i addo gweithio'n unol â'n hegwyddorion polisi i roi diwedd ar ddigartrefedd. Fe fyddwch wedi cael cyfle i ddarllen y datganiad polisi strategol, yr adroddiad gan y grŵp gweithredu a'n hymateb iddo. Cawsom lawer o gyfleoedd yn y Cyfarfod Llawn a'r pwyllgorau hefyd yn ystod yr wythnosau diwethaf i drafod y mater hwn. Nawr gallwn droi'r geiriau hynny'n weithredoedd. Rydym yn cychwyn ar adeg dyngedfennol o'r flwyddyn o ran marwolaethau ar y stryd. Nid wyf yn credu bod y ffigurau'n gywir, ond mae unrhyw farwolaeth yn farwolaeth yn ormod—gadewch inni fod yn glir. Mae pobl ddigartref yn marw yn eu 40au, ac ychydig yn iau i fenywod nag i ddynion—ond yn eu 40au. Mae'n warthus. Felly, rhaid inni wneud rhywbeth am y peth oherwydd, yma yng Nghymru, gyda'n gilydd, fe allwn ac fe wnawn roi diwedd ar ddigartrefedd. Diolch.
Thank you. Can I call on David Melding to reply to the debate?
Diolch. A gaf fi alw ar David Melding i ymateb i'r ddadl?
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Could I thank all Members who've taken part in a very vigorous and, I think, constructive debate overall—some sharp edges; given the nature of the subject, that's probably entirely appropriate. Let me rattle through some of the contributions.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. A gaf fi ddiolch i'r holl Aelodau sydd wedi cymryd rhan mewn dadl rymus iawn, ac adeiladol ar y cyfan, rwy'n credu—gyda rhai ymylon miniog; o ystyried natur y pwnc, mae'n debyg fod hynny'n gwbl briodol. Gadewch i mi fynd drwy rai o'r cyfraniadau.
Neil started with a walk through the streets of Cardiff, and I think that's a very evocative and appropriate way to start. I think the third sector are vital partners coming up with some good solutions. I don't have great sympathy with your remarks on that side of things, but I did think that tone of reminding us, really, of our own capital city was important.
Leanne, I didn't mention uncooperativeness, which I should have, actually, in my speech. So, I think you did put your finger there on a real policy challenge and flaw in the current housing legislation, and all the groups tell us that. I do agree that it is the housing shortage, however that's come about, that has driven a lot of the challenges we face in terms of homelessness. You then made some very sharp comments about the benefits system; several other Members did, including the Minister, who specifically quoted the local housing allowance. Now, I think we would benefit from a whole debate on this and how it has affected this vital area we're responsible for—housing policy and homelessness. Obviously, we don't set benefits policy, but it clearly has to be assessed on how it has impacted on the most vulnerable, and I think we do need to have a real good examination of this, and I think some of the points that were made were perhaps not entirely based on accurate analysis at the moment. But we should be open to it; that is definitely the criteria to judge any reform.
Suzy mentioned that any rights approach needed to focus on the enforceability of rights, and I thought that was an interesting point—I completely agree—and then talked about the need for post-legislative scrutiny of the 2014 Act, which would then bring into play things like uncooperativeness. So, I thought that was an important contribution.
Mike, it's always a pleasure to listen to you in terms of housing and related issues because you have a wealth of experience, and a generosity of heart, if I may say so, in terms of welcoming ideas wherever you find them, and the whole range of homelessness—the different types of homelessness, from inappropriate to housing to sleeping on the streets, and the lack of affordable housing, which I know is a real passion that you have. That is really something we need to unite on and put right.
Mark gave us a really historical analysis, including the approach in the early Assembly and his contributions, and talked about hidden homelessness in particular, which I thought was really key. This problem has been around a long time—we all own it I think is the honest answer.
Caroline talked about the right to a roof over your head—that's the way I want to term it as well—and welcomed our action plan and the role a tsar might play.
Mohammad then: we're the fifth richest group, and I think that is something always to bear in mind when many of our citizens don't have such a basic right as housing. You made the point—I don't think anyone else made this—that rough-sleepers often do not want to, for various reasons that I completely understand, access emergency hostels.
John I thought made an excellent contribution as the Chair of the local government and housing committee, and was generous enough to balance his remarks with quite sharp criticism, but then also with where he thought that we were making a valuable contribution. He welcomed the human rights approach and then talked about things like assertive outreach, which we're not always comfortable about, but it is something that's raised with us and is important.
Then Mandy I thought made the most powerful speech in many ways, because you were generous again in reflecting on your own experience as a 15-year-old, and goodness knows the thought of someone at 15 in that situation—inadequate housing, imposing yourself on friends or going back to a family situation that was truly wretched for you. I'm sure there are many people that would have heard that who have been in that situation, or even experiencing it now, and would get great support at least from knowing that someone in our Chamber has had such direct experience of this issue. The position of veterans I think is really key and, as I said, earlier this week I was looking at that in Pontypridd. And, again, you endorse the housing first approach. And I do welcome the Minister's response in saying that we should make this a shared agenda. We should cherish all good ideas and use them. And, again, you were kind enough to balance your remarks with those areas where you do feel that our side have more to answer for than perhaps you feel has been raised this afternoon. But I think the general constructiveness is a good foundation for us to ensure that we debate this subject often in all its intricacies. I thank you for you indulgence, Deputy Llywydd.
Dechreuodd Neil gyda thaith ar hyd strydoedd Caerdydd, ac rwy'n meddwl bod honno'n ffordd deimladwy a phriodol iawn i ddechrau. Rwy'n credu bod y trydydd sector yn bartneriaid hanfodol sy'n cynnig atebion da. Nid oes gennyf gydymdeimlad mawr â'ch sylwadau ar yr ochr honno i bethau, ond roeddwn yn meddwl bod ein hatgoffa, mewn gwirionedd, am ein prifddinas ein hunain yn bwysig.
Leanne, ni soniais am fod yn anghydweithredol yn fy araith, ac fe ddylwn fod wedi gwneud mewn gwirionedd. Felly, rwy'n meddwl eich bod wedi rhoi eich bys ar her polisi go iawn a gwendid yn y ddeddfwriaeth dai gyfredol, ac mae'r holl grwpiau'n dweud hynny wrthym. Rwy'n cytuno mai'r prinder tai, sut bynnag y mae hynny wedi digwydd, sydd wedi sbarduno llawer o'r heriau sy'n ein hwynebu o ran digartrefedd. Yna gwnaethoch sylwadau miniog iawn am y system fudd-daliadau; gwnaeth nifer o'r Aelodau eraill yr un fath, gan gynnwys y Gweinidog, a gyfeiriodd yn benodol at y lwfans tai lleol. Nawr, rwy'n credu y byddem yn elwa o ddadl gyfan ar hyn a sut y mae wedi effeithio ar y maes hanfodol rydym yn gyfrifol amdano—polisi tai a digartrefedd. Yn amlwg, nid ydym yn gosod polisi budd-daliadau, ond mae'n amlwg fod rhaid ei asesu o ran y modd y mae wedi effeithio ar y rhai mwyaf agored i niwed, a chredaf fod angen inni ei archwilio'n dda iawn, a chredaf efallai nad oedd rhai o'r pwyntiau a wnaethpwyd wedi'u seilio'n llwyr ar ddadansoddiad cywir ar hyn o bryd. Ond dylem fod yn agored iddo; dyna'n bendant yw'r meini prawf ar gyfer barnu unrhyw ddiwygio.
Soniodd Suzy fod angen i unrhyw ddull yn seiliedig ar hawliau ganolbwyntio ar y gallu i orfodi hawliau, ac roeddwn o'r farn fod hwnnw'n bwynt diddorol—rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr—a soniodd wedyn am yr angen i graffu ar ôl deddfu ar Ddeddf 2014, a fyddai wedyn yn arwain at gynnwys pethau fel bod yn anghydweithredol. Felly, roeddwn yn meddwl bod hwnnw'n gyfraniad pwysig.
Mike, mae bob amser yn bleser gwrando arnoch yn siarad am dai a materion cysylltiedig gan fod gennych gyfoeth o brofiad, a chalon garedig, os caf ddweud, o ran croesawu syniadau lle bynnag y dowch o hyd iddynt, a'r holl ystod o ddigartrefedd—y gwahanol fathau o ddigartrefedd, o dai anaddas i gysgu ar y strydoedd, a diffyg tai fforddiadwy, rhywbeth y mae gennych ddiddordeb angerddol ynddo. Mae hynny'n bendant yn rhywbeth y mae angen i ni ddod at ein gilydd yn ei gylch a'i ddatrys.
Rhoddodd Mark ddadansoddiad hanesyddol iawn i ni, gan gynnwys y dull gweithredu yn y Cynulliad cynnar a'i gyfraniadau, a soniodd am ddigartrefedd cudd yn benodol, a chredwn fod hynny'n allweddol iawn. Mae'r broblem hon wedi bod gennym yn hir iawn—rwy'n credu mai'r ateb gonest yw ei bod hi'n broblem sy'n eiddo i bawb ohonom.
Soniodd Caroline am yr hawl i gael to dros eich pen—dyna'r ffordd rwyf am ei roi hefyd—ac roedd yn croesawu ein cynllun gweithredu a'r rôl y gallai tsar ei chwarae.
Mohammad wedyn: ni yw'r pumed grŵp cyfoethocaf, ac rwy'n credu bod hynny'n rhywbeth i'w gofio bob amser pan nad oes gan lawer o'n dinasyddion hawl mor sylfaenol â thai. Fe wnaethoch y pwynt—nid wyf yn credu bod neb arall wedi dweud hyn—nad yw'r rhai sy'n cysgu ar y stryd eisiau mynd i hostel argyfwng bob amser, a hynny am wahanol resymau rwy'n eu deall yn iawn.
Roeddwn yn credu bod John wedi gwneud cyfraniad rhagorol fel Cadeirydd y pwyllgor llywodraeth leol a thai, ac roedd yn ddigon hael i gydbwyso ei sylwadau gyda beirniadaeth eithaf miniog, ond hefyd gyda lle credai ein bod yn gwneud cyfraniad gwerthfawr. Roedd yn croesawu'r elfen hawliau dynol ac yna siaradodd am bethau fel allgymorth grymusol, nad ydym bob amser yn gyfforddus yn ei gylch, ond mae'n rhywbeth sy'n cael ei godi gyda ni ac mae'n bwysig.
Wedyn, roeddwn yn credu bod Mandy wedi rhoi araith bwerus iawn mewn sawl ffordd, oherwydd roeddech yn hael eto wrth fyfyrio ar eich profiad eich hun fel person 15 mlwydd oed, a phwy all wybod beth sydd ym meddwl rhywun 15 oed yn y sefyllfa honno—tai annigonol, rhoi eich hun ar drugaredd ffrindiau neu fynd yn ôl i sefyllfa deuluol a oedd yn wirioneddol enbyd i chi. Rwy'n siŵr bod llawer o bobl a fyddai wedi clywed hynny sydd wedi bod yn y sefyllfa honno, neu hyd yn oed yn mynd drwyddi yn awr, ac a fyddai'n cael cryn dipyn o gymorth o wybod o leiaf fod rhywun yn ein Siambr wedi cael profiad uniongyrchol o'r broblem hon. Credaf fod sefyllfa cyn-filwyr yn allweddol iawn ac fel y dywedais, yn gynharach yr wythnos hon roeddwn yn edrych ar hynny ym Mhontypridd. Ac unwaith eto, rydych yn cefnogi'r dull tai yn gyntaf. Ac rwy'n croesawu ymateb y Gweinidog pan ddywedodd y dylem wneud hon yn agenda ar y cyd. Dylem goleddu pob syniad da a'u defnyddio. Ac unwaith eto, roeddech yn ddigon caredig i gydbwyso'ch sylwadau â'r meysydd lle teimlwch fod gan ein hochr ni fwy i ateb drosto nag y teimlwch iddo gael ei godi y prynhawn yma efallai. Ond rwy'n credu bod y natur adeiladol yn gyffredinol yn sylfaen dda inni sicrhau ein bod yn trafod y pwnc yn aml yn ei holl gymhlethdodau. Diolch i chi am eich amynedd, Ddirprwy Lywydd.
Thank you. The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Object. Therefore, we will defer voting on this item until voting time. Unless three Members wish for the bell to be rung, I intend to proceed to the first vote.
Diolch. Y cwestiwn yw derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Gwrthwynebiad. Felly, gohiriwn y bleidlais ar yr eitem hon tan y cyfnod pleidleisio. Oni bai fod tri Aelod yn dymuno i'r gloch gael ei chanu, rwy'n bwriadu symud ymlaen i'r bleidlais gyntaf.
Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Voting deferred until voting time.
We now move to a vote on the Welsh Conservatives debate, 'Tackling Homelessness', and I call for a vote on the motion tabled in the name of Darren Millar. If this proposal is not agreed, we will vote on the amendments tabled to that motion. So, open the vote. Close the vote. For the motion 11, one abstention, 35 against. Therefore, the motion is not agreed and we move to vote on the amendments.
Symudwn yn awr at bleidlais ar ddadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig, 'Mynd i'r Afael â Digartrefedd', a galwaf am bleidlais ar y cynnig a gyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar. Os na dderbynnir y cynnig hwn, byddwn yn pleidleisio ar y gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd i'r cynnig. Felly, agorwch y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y cynnig 11, un yn ymatal, 35 yn erbyn. Felly, gwrthodwyd y cynnig a symudwn ymlaen i bleidleisio ar y gwelliannau.
NDM7167 - Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig - Cynnig heb ei ddiwygio: O blaid: 11, Yn erbyn: 35, Ymatal: 1
Gwrthodwyd y cynnig
NDM7167 - Welsh Conservatives Debate - Motion without amendment: For: 11, Against: 35, Abstain: 1
Motion has been rejected
If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2 to 6 will be deselected. So, I call for a vote on amendment 1, tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans. Open the vote. Close the vote. For amendment 1 26, no abstentions, 22 against. Therefore, amendment 1 is agreed, and amendments 2 to 6 are deselected.
Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliannau 2 i 6 eu dad-ddethol. Felly, galwaf am bleidlais ar welliant 1, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rebecca Evans. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid gwelliant 1, 26, neb yn ymatal, 22 yn erbyn. Felly, derbynnir gwelliant 1, a chaiff gwelliannau 2 i 6 eu dad-ddethol.
NDM7167 - Gwelliant 1: O blaid: 26, Yn erbyn: 22, Ymatal: 0
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant
NDM7167 - Amendment 1: For: 26, Against: 22, Abstain: 0
Amendment has been agreed
Cafodd gwelliannau 2 i 6 eu dad-ddethol.
Amendments 2 to 6 deselected.
Ni ddetholwyd gwelliant 7.
Amendment 7 not selected.
Move to a vote on amendment 8. I call for a vote on amendment 8, tabled in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amendment 37, three abstentions, eight against. Therefore, amendment 8 is agreed.
Symudwn ymlaen i bleidleisio ar welliant 8. Galwaf am bleidlais ar welliant 8, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rhun ap Iorwerth. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y gwelliant 37, roedd tri yn ymatal, wyth yn erbyn. Felly, derbynnir gwelliant 8.
NDM7167 - Gwelliant 8: O blaid: 37, Yn erbyn: 8, Ymatal: 3
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant
NDM7167 - Amendment 8: For: 37, Against: 8, Abstain: 3
Amendment has been agreed
And I call for a vote on amendment 9, tabled in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth. Open the vote. Close the vote. For amendment 9 11, no abstentions, 37 against. Therefore, amendment 9 is not agreed.
A galwaf am bleidlais ar welliant 9, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rhun ap Iorwerth. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid gwelliant 9, 11, neb yn ymatal, 37 yn erbyn. Felly, gwrthodwyd gwelliant 9.
NDM7167 - Gwelliant 9: O blaid: 11, Yn erbyn: 37, Ymatal: 0
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant
NDM7167 - Amendment 9: For: 11, Against: 37, Abstain: 0
Amendment has been rejected
Call for a vote on amendment 10, tabled in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amendment 40, eight abstentions, none against. Therefore, amendment 10 is agreed.
Galw am bleidlais ar welliant 10, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rhun ap Iorwerth. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y gwelliant 40, wyth yn ymatal, neb yn erbyn. Felly, derbynnir gwelliant 10.
NDM7167 - Gwelliant 10: O blaid: 40, Yn erbyn: 0, Ymatal: 8
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant
NDM7167 - Amendment 10: For: 40, Against: 0, Abstain: 8
Amendment has been agreed
I call for a vote on amendment 11, tabled in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amendment 46, two abstentions, none against. Therefore, amendment 11 is agreed.
Galwaf am bleidlais ar welliant 11, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rhun ap Iorwerth. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y gwelliant 46, roedd dau yn ymatal, neb yn erbyn. Felly, derbynnir gwelliant 11.
NDM7167 - Gwelliant 11: O blaid: 46, Yn erbyn: 0, Ymatal: 2
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant
NDM7167 - Amendment 11: For: 46, Against: 0, Abstain: 2
Amendment has been agreed
Call for a vote on amendment 12, tabled in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amendment 48, no abstentions, none against. Therefore, amendment 12 is agreed.
Galw am bleidlais ar welliant 12, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rhun ap Iorwerth. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y gwelliant 48, neb yn ymatal, neb yn erbyn. Felly, derbynnir gwelliant 12.
NDM7167 - Gwelliant 12: O blaid: 48, Yn erbyn: 0, Ymatal: 0
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant
NDM7167 - Amendment 12: For: 48, Against: 0, Abstain: 0
Amendment has been agreed
Call for a vote on amendment 13, tabled in the name of Neil McEvoy. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amendment 14, no abstentions, 34 against. Therefore, amendment 13 is not agreed.
Galw am bleidlais ar welliant 13, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Neil McEvoy. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y gwelliant 14, neb yn ymatal, 34 yn erbyn. Felly, gwrthodwyd gwelliant 13.
NDM7167 - Gwelliant 13: O blaid: 14, Yn erbyn: 34, Ymatal: 0
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant
NDM7167 - Amendment 13: For: 14, Against: 34, Abstain: 0
Amendment has been rejected
Call for a vote on amendment 14, tabled in the name of Neil McEvoy. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amendment six, no abstentions, 42 against. Therefore amendment 14 is not agreed.
Galw am bleidlais ar welliant 14, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Neil McEvoy. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y gwelliant chwech, neb yn ymatal, 42 yn erbyn. Gan hynny, gwrthodwyd gwelliant 14.
NDM7167 - Gwelliant 14: O blaid: 6, Yn erbyn: 42, Ymatal: 0
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant
NDM7167 - Amendment 14: For: 6, Against: 42, Abstain: 0
Amendment has been rejected
I call for a vote on amendment 15, tabled in the name of Neil McEvoy. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amendment six, no abstentions, 42 against. Therefore, amendment 15 is not agreed.
Galwaf am bleidlais ar welliant 15, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Neil McEvoy. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y gwelliant chwech, neb yn ymatal, 42 yn erbyn. Felly, gwrthodwyd gwelliant 15.
NDM7167 - Gwelliant 15: O blaid: 6, Yn erbyn: 42, Ymatal: 0
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant
NDM7167 - Amendment 15: For: 6, Against: 42, Abstain: 0
Amendment has been rejected
I now call for a vote on the motion as amended.
Galwaf yn awr am bleidlais ar y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd.
Cynnig NDM7167 fel y'i diwygiwyd:
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:
1. Yn cydnabod bod yna fwy y gellir ei wneud bob amser i fynd i'r afael â digartrefedd.
2. Yn cymeradwyo'r arfer da a welir yn y sector tai mewn perthynas â digartrefedd, gan gynnwys y trefniadau partneriaeth sy'n cefnogi gwaith Tai yn Gyntaf Llywodraeth Cymru.
3. Yn croesawu sefydlu Grŵp Gweithredu Llywodraeth Cymru ar Ddigartrefedd a ddatblygwyd mewn partneriaeth â'r sector, gan gynnwys elusennau digartrefedd, ac yn croesawu ei adroddiad cyntaf.
4. Yn nodi:
a) Bod un person digartref sy'n marw yn drasiedi.
b) Yr effaith y mae cyni a diwygiadau i'r system les wedi'i chael ar y niferoedd sy'n ddigartref.
5. Yn nodi ymhellach Strategaeth Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer Atal a Rhoi Diwedd ar Ddigartrefedd ac ymgyrch adduned y sector cyhoeddus.
6. Yn cydnabod bod toriadau Llywodraeth y DU i nawdd cymdeithasol wedi cyfrannu at y cynnydd mewn digartrefedd, fel y rhagwelodd y sector fyddai'n digwydd.
7. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth y DU i fabwysiadu argymhellion yr adroddiad Crisis ar roi terfyn ar ddigartrefedd sy'n berthnasol i feysydd polisi sydd heb eu datganoli, ac yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i weithredu argymhellion yr adroddiad argyfwng sy'n berthnasol i'w feysydd cyfrifoldeb.
8. Sicrhau bod Deddf Crwydradaeth 1824 yn cael ei datgymhwyso'n weithredol ym mhob un o ardaloedd yr heddlu yng Nghymru er mwyn osgoi gwneud pobl ddigartref yn droseddwyr am gysgu allan a chardota.
9. Yn ogystal â darparu tai, yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau bod gwasanaethau'n cael eu darparu'n briodol i bobl sydd mewn perygl o fod yn ddigartref, fel pobl â phroblemau iechyd meddwl, anableddau dysgu, defnyddwyr sylweddau problematig, pobl ag ADHD ac anhwylderau niwroddatblygiadol, carcharorion, cyn-filwyr, goroeswyr cam-drin rhywiol yn ystod plentyndod a goroeswyr cam-drin domestig a'r rhai sydd wedi cael profiadau niweidiol yn ystod plentyndod.
Motion NDM7167 as amended:
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
1. Recognises that there is always more that can be done to tackle homelessness.
2. Commends the good practice that is to be found in the housing sector in relation to homelessness including the partnership work that supports the delivery of the Welsh Government’s Housing First approach.
3. Welcomes the establishment and the first report of the Welsh Government’s Homelessness Action Group developed in partnership with the sector, including homelessness charities.
4. Notes:
a) That one homeless death is a tragedy.
b) The impact that austerity and welfare reform has had on the numbers of people experiencing homelessness.
5. Further notes the Welsh Government’s Strategy for Preventing and Ending Homelessness and public sector pledge campaign.
6. Recognises that the UK Government’s cuts to social security have contributed towards the increase in homelessness, as was predicted to happen by the sector.
7. Calls on the UK Government to adopt the recommendations of the Crisis report on ending homelessness that apply to non-devolved policy areas, and calls on the Welsh Government to implement the recommendations of the crisis report that apply to its areas of responsibility.
8. Ensures that the Vagrancy Act 1824 is operationally disapplied in all police force areas in Wales in order to avoid criminalising homeless people for rough-sleeping and begging.
9. As well as providing housing, calls on the Welsh Government to also ensure proper service provision for people at risk of homelessness, such as people with mental health problems, learning disabilities, problematic substance users, people with ADHD and neurodevelopmental disorders, prisoners, veterans, childhood sexual abuse and domestic abuse survivors and those with adverse childhood experiences.
Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amended motion 29, eight abstentions, 11 against. Therefore, the amended motion is agreed.
Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd 29, wyth yn ymatal, 11 yn erbyn. Felly, derbynnir y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd.
NDM7167 - Cynnig wedi'i ddiwygio: O blaid: 29, Yn erbyn: 11, Ymatal: 8
Derbyniwyd y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd
NDM7167 - Motion as amended: For: 29, Against: 11, Abstain: 8
Motion as amended has been agreed
We now go to item 9, which is the short debate. If Members are going out the Chamber, can they do so quickly?
Symudwn ymlaen yn awr at eitem 9, sef y ddadl fer. Os oes Aelodau'n gadael y Siambr, a allant wneud hynny'n gyflym?
We now turn to the short debate and I call on Dawn Bowden to speak on the topic she has chosen—Dawn.
Trown yn awr at y ddadl fer a galwaf ar Dawn Bowden i siarad ar y pwnc y mae wedi'i ddewis—Dawn.
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. It seems to be that today is the day for debates on housing. I'm sorry that I wasn't around actually to participate in much of the Conservatives' debate earlier on, because there's much in what was tabled in that debate that I do support, and I think that we are in a process of reaching some kind of consensus around some of the issues that we need to address in housing. So, my topic for this short debate is the power of co-operative housing solutions in helping to meet housing needs in communities across Wales, and I'd like to give a minute of my time to Mike Hedges.
So, I'll start my debate with a short contextual analysis about housing need, and I'm then going to look at examples of co-operative housing solutions in both my constituency and further afield, and finally I will explain why I believe that co-operation is a powerful tool in helping to solve not just housing problems but also in helping to build more cohesive communities.
I always believe that housing remains a deeply political choice, a choice about priorities and a reflection of political values, but I will also acknowledge the common ground that we find in this place, as I think was noted in the earlier debate—common ground that I believe is based upon the scale and the range of housing problems that present themselves to us in our casework and in expert evidence that we receive in Assembly committees. Indeed, only last week, the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee heard compelling evidence around the problems of rough-sleeping and the challenges of those people experiencing it and organisations trying to help grapple with it.
So, first, a bit of context on housing needs. I know from my own experience in Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney, where I see a significant need for homes to house young and single people, there is a need for more homes of a size that can help people to avoid personal debt, because of having to pay bedroom tax, and a need for private rented homes to be available at rent levels that people can afford, as well as the need to build more new private housing for those people who can use the market to buy a home, either with or without Welsh Government help, such as Help to Buy. And all of that before we even get to the issue of homelessness and how we get a roof over people's heads in the first instance—that being the most basic of human needs.
So, the case for radical housing solutions can be evidenced by a few facts—and the Minister alluded to this in her response to the earlier debate—a local housing allowance of less than £280 per month for one-bed units, while private sector rents range from some £370 to £500 per month for that size of unit; low wage levels and zero-hours contracts leading to the problem of in-work poverty, which points to the sharp challenge of affordability in many of our communities; and new house building that does not replace our older housing stock at a fast enough rate. Therefore, schemes like Help to Buy, in truth, whilst welcome, are of less benefit in my constituency than they are in some other areas.
Let me be clear: I welcome the Welsh Government's response to many of these housing challenges. Steps have been taken, even in the face of a decade of austerity, for example ending the right to buy in order to protect our valuable public housing for those in need; the funding of more affordable homes; the return of a council house building programme; greater protection for tenants and stronger regulation of landlords; stepping up action against homelessness; and the welcome embrace of a whole-system approach to these problems. There is of course more to do, and it all makes for a strong record of delivery by our Government here in Wales.
Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Mae'n ymddangos mai heddiw yw'r diwrnod ar gyfer dadleuon ar dai. Mae'n ddrwg gennyf nad oeddwn o gwmpas i gymryd rhan yn llawer o ddadl y Ceidwadwyr yn gynharach, oherwydd rwy'n cefnogi llawer o'r hyn a gyflwynwyd yn y ddadl honno, a chredaf ein bod yn y broses o ddod i ryw fath o gonsensws ynghylch rhai o'r materion y mae angen inni roi sylw iddynt ym maes tai. Felly, fy mhwnc ar gyfer y ddadl fer hon yw pŵer atebion tai cydweithredol i helpu i ddiwallu anghenion tai mewn cymunedau ledled Cymru, a hoffwn roi munud o fy amser i Mike Hedges.
Felly, fe ddechreuaf fy nadl gyda dadansoddiad cyd-destunol byr o'r angen am dai, a byddaf yn edrych wedyn ar enghreifftiau o atebion tai cydweithredol yn fy etholaeth i a thu hwnt, ac yn olaf byddaf yn egluro pam y credaf fod cydweithredu'n offeryn pwerus i helpu i ddatrys problemau tai yn ogystal â helpu i adeiladu cymunedau mwy cydlynus.
Rwyf bob amser yn credu bod tai'n dal i fod yn ddewis gwleidyddol iawn, yn ddewis ynghylch blaenoriaethau ac yn adlewyrchiad o werthoedd gwleidyddol, ond rwy'n cydnabod hefyd y tir cyffredin a welwn yn y lle hwn, fel y nodwyd yn y ddadl gynharach, rwy'n credu—tir cyffredin y credaf ei fod yn seiliedig ar raddfa ac ystod y problemau tai a welwn yn ein gwaith achos ac mewn tystiolaeth arbenigol a gawn ym mhwyllgorau'r Cynulliad. Yn wir, yr wythnos diwethaf, clywodd y Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau dystiolaeth gymhellol ynghylch problemau cysgu ar y stryd a'r heriau sy'n wynebu'r bobl sy'n cael profiad o hynny a sefydliadau sy'n ceisio helpu i fynd i'r afael â'r broblem.
Felly, yn gyntaf, ychydig o gyd-destun ar anghenion tai. Gwn o fy mhrofiad fy hun ym Merthyr Tudful a Rhymni, lle gwelaf angen sylweddol am gartrefi i bobl ifanc a phobl sengl, fod angen mwy o dai o faint a all helpu pobl i osgoi dyled bersonol yn sgil gorfod talu treth ystafell wely, a'r angen am gartrefi rhent preifat i fod ar gael ar lefelau rhent y gall pobl eu fforddio, yn ogystal â'r angen i adeiladu mwy o dai preifat newydd ar gyfer y bobl a all ddefnyddio'r farchnad i brynu cartref, naill ai gyda chymorth Llywodraeth Cymru neu hebddo, fel Cymorth i Brynu. A hynny i gyd cyn inni hyd yn oed gyrraedd problem digartrefedd a sut i gael to dros ben pobl yn y lle cyntaf—sef y mwyaf sylfaenol o anghenion dynol.
Felly, gellir dangos tystiolaeth o'r achos dros atebion radical i dai gydag ychydig ffeithiau—a chyfeiriodd y Gweinidog at hyn yn ei hymateb i'r ddadl gynharach—lwfans tai lleol o lai na £280 y mis ar gyfer unedau un gwely, tra bo rhenti'r sector preifat yn amrywio rhwng tua £370 a £500 y mis ar gyfer uned o'r maint hwnnw; lefelau cyflog isel a chontractau dim oriau yn arwain at broblem tlodi mewn gwaith, sy'n arwydd o'r her sylweddol o ran fforddiadwyedd mewn llawer o'n cymunedau; ac adeiladu tai newydd nad yw'n cymryd lle ein stoc dai hŷn ar gyfradd ddigon cyflym. Felly, mae cynlluniau fel Cymorth i Brynu, mewn gwirionedd, er eu bod i'w croesawu, yn llai buddiol yn fy etholaeth i nag mewn rhai ardaloedd eraill.
Gadewch i mi fod yn glir: rwy'n croesawu ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru i lawer o'r heriau hyn ym maes tai. Rhoddwyd camau ar waith, hyd yn oed yn wyneb degawd o gyni, er enghraifft rhoi diwedd ar yr hawl i brynu er mwyn diogelu ein tai cyhoeddus gwerthfawr ar gyfer pobl sydd eu hangen; ariannu mwy o gartrefi fforddiadwy; dychwelyd at raglen adeiladu tai cyngor; mwy o ddiogelwch i denantiaid a rheoleiddio landlordiaid yn gadarnach; cynyddu gweithredu yn erbyn digartrefedd; a chroesawu dull system gyfan o ymdrin â'r problemau hyn. Mae mwy i'w wneud wrth gwrs, ac mae'r cyfan yn dynodi cyflawniad cadarn gan ein Llywodraeth yma yng Nghymru.
But, in this debate, and sitting amongst the many solutions, I want to highlight the opportunities for co-operative solutions to help meet the housing needs in our communities. And I'll focus on that now in this second section of my debate. Because I'm fortunate to have, in my constituency, an organisation called Merthyr Valleys Homes. And this association emerged from the stock transfer debate of earlier Assembly terms, and has become the largest tenant and employee mutual in the country.
Merthyr Valleys Homes was established in 2009, as a result of tenants voting to transfer their homes to a new not-for-profit organisation. They own and manage over 4,200 homes across the county borough of Merthyr Tydfil. In the first five years, Merthyr Valleys Homes were dedicated to achieving the promises that were made to tenants upon that transfer, and also achieving our Welsh housing quality standard targets. But, by 2014, they'd started to look at the future of the organisation and how they wanted the organisation to develop in the coming years. The board wanted to take a further step, and opted to develop a governance model that would empower tenants and employees by allowing them to become members. In turn, this would give them a real say, and they could play an important role in decision making and setting their own direction for Merthyr Valleys Homes. As a result, on 1 May 2016, Merthyr Valleys Homes transformed into a mutual housing association, and they are the first in Wales to allow both tenants and employees the opportunity to become a member and own a share in the organisation. So, Merthyr Valleys Homes is now a registered society, under the Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies Act 2014. Their purpose is to carry on business for the benefit of the community, which they shape through their vision, entitled 'Yfory', and I think we're shortly to see the updated version, 'Yfory 2'. [Laughter.]
I'm always impressed by their very core values as a mutual organisation and in their structure as a democratic body, board and members. They are continually looking for opportunities to build a circular local economy—for example, investing in local business and trades, providing skills and apprenticeship opportunities. This is putting values into practice. So, in all this work, can I give an acknowledgement to the former chief executive of Merthyr Valleys Homes, Mike Owen—now probably enjoying himself watching the rugby world cup, or sat in a pub in Cornwall—his successor, Michelle Reid and her team, and especially Katie Howells, who's been instrumental in supporting the progress made by my next example, which is the Taf Fechan Housing Co-operative in the constituency?
Given the history I've described, it is perhaps no surprise that Merthyr Valleys Homes also helped to nurture and help develop the Taf Fechan Housing Co-operative. For those who don't know the area, the Taf Fechan flats had, in truth, become undesirable, hard-to-let units, physically run down, vandalised, and suffering anti-social behaviour. Thankfully, through the vision of Merthyr Valleys Homes, and with support through cheap finance from the local authority, the option of a housing co-operative was identified as part of a brighter future for the 12 flats that are now in the co-operative on the Gellideg estate.
So, as the Gellideg estate was and is redeveloped, these flats were retained, refurbished, and the residents have formed a co-operative to run that block of flats. Those people who are now residents in the flats have to be members of the co-operative, and therefore share a responsibility in the running of their homes. The flats are leased to Taf Fechan by Merthyr Valleys Homes, and the members of the co-operative run their homes. Vitally, this means residents taking ownership of their future, making communal decisions about rent levels, maintaining their properties, and managing who moves into the flats. I recently visited the flats, and saw for myself the pride taken in their properties and the way in which they operate collectively to maintain them. In fact, they were just completing some improvements to their communal garden area, and had agreed, within the co-operative, the balance between the leisure space and those members who wanted the opportunity to grow their own vegetables and plants. But this co-operative approach has also seen them develop greater social bonds. So, better homes, a more cohesive community, and stronger social bonds is a win-win in any regeneration process—people taking more control of their lives and communities, and, in this case, having the benefit of the experience to draw from of Merthyr Valleys Homes itself.
These local examples, of course, sit in a wider context of co-operative action. As a Welsh Labour and Co-operative Assembly Member, I'm pleased that our Government supports mutual and co-operative solutions to some of the problems that we face. Indeed, such action formed part of the pledges that we made at the 2016 Assembly elections, and I hope that we build on this in the future. I do see strong links between co-operative and mutual policies, and our policies to drive forward the foundational economy in Wales. I note that the Confederation of Co-operative Housing, for instance, has recently published their findings about '1,001 co-operative and community-led homes' in the UK, and they point to the evidence that, across the country, people and communities are making their own housing and neighbourhood solutions, making sustainable and lasting homes, building resilient and confident local communities, developing skills that they never knew they had. Well, that is my local experience as well.
So, the final section of my debate is to ask the question: is this the silver bullet to housing need in our communities? Well, the answer to that question, of course, is 'no'. But what I will argue is that supporting and developing a mutual and co-operative approach can be part of the solution—an important part because of some of the factors that I have identified in the debate. It does, however, sit within the set of actions that help to meet housing need in our communities. It sees people taking control of the management of their homes, without the spectre or burden of satisfying the profit need of shareholders. In my experience, it has seen the community strengthened, with both sustainable and caring values moving to the centre of housing solutions. And that's why I will commend such models to the Welsh Government, to this Assembly, and I hope to see mutual and co-operative housing solutions supported in the decade ahead.
Ond yn y ddadl hon, ac o blith y llu o atebion, rwyf am dynnu sylw at y cyfleoedd ar gyfer atebion cydweithredol er mwyn helpu i ddiwallu'r anghenion tai yn ein cymunedau. A byddaf yn canolbwyntio ar hynny yn awr yn ail ran fy nadl. Oherwydd rwy'n ffodus o gael sefydliad o'r enw Cartrefi Cymoedd Merthyr yn fy etholaeth. A deilliodd y Gymdeithas hon o'r ddadl ynghylch trosglwyddo stoc mewn tymhorau Cynulliad cynharach, ac mae wedi dod yn gwmni cydfuddiannol mwyaf y wlad i denantiaid a chyflogeion.
Sefydlwyd Cartrefi Cymoedd Merthyr ym 2009 wedi i denantiaid bleidleisio o blaid trosglwyddo eu cartrefi i sefydliad newydd dielw. Maent yn berchen ar, ac yn rheoli dros 4,200 o gartrefi ar draws bwrdeistref sirol Merthyr Tudful. Yn y pum mlynedd cyntaf, ymrwymodd Cartrefi Cymoedd Merthyr i gyflawni'r addewidion a wnaed i denantiaid ar adeg y trosglwyddiad, a chyflawni ein targedau safon ansawdd tai Cymru hefyd. Ond erbyn 2014, roeddent wedi dechrau edrych ar ddyfodol y sefydliad a sut roeddent am i'r sefydliad ddatblygu yn y blynyddoedd i ddod. Roedd y bwrdd am gymryd cam arall, a dewisodd ddatblygu model llywodraethu a fyddai'n grymuso tenantiaid a chyflogeion drwy ganiatáu iddynt ddod yn aelodau. Yn ei dro, byddai hyn yn rhoi gwir lais iddynt, a gallent chwarae rhan bwysig yn y broses o wneud penderfyniadau a gosod eu cyfeiriad eu hunain ar gyfer Cartrefi Cymoedd Merthyr. O ganlyniad, ar 1 Mai 2016, trawsnewidiwyd Cartrefi Cymoedd Merthyr yn gymdeithas dai gydfuddiannol, a dyma'r gyntaf yng Nghymru i roi cyfle i denantiaid a chyflogeion fod yn aelodau a bod yn berchen ar gyfran yn y sefydliad. Felly, mae Cartrefi Cymoedd Merthyr bellach yn gymdeithas gofrestredig, o dan Ddeddf Cymdeithasau Cydweithredol a Chymdeithasau Budd Cymunedol 2014. Eu diben yw parhau busnes er budd y gymuned, a gwnânt hynny drwy eu gweledigaeth, sef 'Yfory', ac rwy'n credu y byddwn yn gweld fersiwn wedi'i diweddaru yn fuan, sef 'Yfory 2'. [Chwerthin.]
Mae eu gwerthoedd craidd fel sefydliad cydfuddiannol bob amser wedi creu argraff arnaf yn ogystal â'u strwythur fel corff democrataidd, bwrdd ac aelodau. Maent yn chwilio'n barhaus am gyfleoedd i adeiladu economi leol gylchol—er enghraifft, buddsoddi mewn busnesau a chrefftau lleol, gan ddarparu sgiliau a chyfleoedd ar gyfer prentisiaethau. Mae hyn yn rhoi gwerthoedd ar waith. Felly, yn y gwaith hwn i gyd, a gaf fi gydnabod cyn brif weithredwr Cartrefi Cymoedd Merthyr, Mike Owen—mae'n sicr ei fod bellach yn mwynhau ei hun yn gwylio cwpan rygbi'r byd, neu'n eistedd mewn tafarn yng Nghernyw—ei olynydd, Michelle Reid a'i thîm, ac yn enwedig Katie Howells, sydd wedi bod yn allweddol yn cefnogi'r cynnydd a wnaed gan fy enghraifft nesaf, sef Tai Cydweithredol Taf Fechan yn yr etholaeth?
O ystyried yr hanes a ddisgrifiais, efallai nad yw'n syndod fod Cartrefi Cymoedd Merthyr hefyd wedi helpu i feithrin a helpu i ddatblygu Tai Cydweithredol Taf Fechan. I'r rhai nad ydynt yn adnabod yr ardal, roedd fflatiau Taf Fechan wedi mynd yn unedau annymunol, anodd eu gosod, ymhell o fod ar eu gorau ac wedi'u fandaleiddio, ac yn dioddef ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol. Diolch byth, drwy weledigaeth Cartrefi Cymoedd Merthyr, a chymorth cyllid rhad gan yr awdurdod lleol, nodwyd yr opsiwn o gael cwmni cydweithredol yn rhan o ddyfodol mwy disglair ar gyfer y 12 fflat sydd bellach yn y cwmni cydweithredol ar ystâd Gellideg.
Felly, wrth i ystâd Gellideg gael ei hailddatblygu, cafodd y fflatiau hyn eu cadw, eu hailwampio, ac mae'r trigolion wedi ffurfio cwmni cydweithredol i redeg y bloc o fflatiau. Rhaid i'r bobl sydd bellach yn breswylwyr yn y fflatiau fod yn aelodau o'r cwmni cydweithredol, ac felly maent yn rhannu cyfrifoldeb am redeg eu cartrefi. Caiff y fflatiau eu gosod ar brydles i Taf Fechan gan Cartrefi Cymoedd Merthyr, ac mae aelodau'r cwmni cydweithredol yn rhedeg eu cartrefi. Yn allweddol, golyga hyn fod y preswylwyr yn cymryd perchnogaeth ar eu dyfodol, gan wneud penderfyniadau cymunedol am lefelau rhent, cynnal a chadw eu heiddo, a rheoli pwy sy'n symud i mewn i'r fflatiau. Ymwelais â'r fflatiau yn ddiweddar, a gwelais drosof fy hun y balchder sydd ganddynt yn eu heiddo a'r ffordd y maent yn gweithredu ar y cyd i'w cynnal. Yn wir, roeddent yn cwblhau gwelliannau i'w gardd gymunedol, ac roeddent wedi cytuno, o fewn y cwmni cydweithredol, ar y cydbwysedd rhwng y gofod hamdden a'r aelodau oedd am gael cyfle i dyfu eu llysiau a'u planhigion eu hunain. Ond mae'r dull cydweithredol hwn hefyd wedi golygu eu bod yn datblygu mwy o glymau cymdeithasol. Felly, mae cartrefi gwell, cymuned fwy cydlynus, a chlymau cymdeithasol cryfach yn sefyllfa lle mae pawb ar eu hennill mewn unrhyw broses adfywio—pobl yn cael mwy o reolaeth dros eu bywydau a'u cymunedau, ac yn yr achos hwn, yn cael budd o'r profiad o Cartrefi Cymoedd Merthyr ei hun.
Mae'r enghreifftiau lleol hyn, wrth gwrs, yn digwydd mewn cyd-destun ehangach o weithredu cydweithredol. Fel Aelod Cynulliad Llafur a Chydweithredol, rwy'n falch bod ein Llywodraeth yn cefnogi atebion cydfuddiannol a chydweithredol i rai o'r problemau sy'n ein hwynebu. Yn wir, roedd gweithredu o'r fath yn rhan o'r addewidion a wnaethom yn etholiadau'r Cynulliad yn 2016, a gobeithio y byddwn yn adeiladu ar hyn yn y dyfodol. Rwy'n gweld cysylltiadau cryf rhwng polisïau cydweithredol a chydfuddiannol, a'n polisïau i yrru'r economi sylfaenol yn ei blaen yng Nghymru. Sylwaf fod y Cydffederasiwn Tai Cydweithredol, er enghraifft, wedi cyhoeddi eu canfyddiadau yn ddiweddar am '1,001 o gartrefi cydweithredol a chartrefi dan arweiniad y gymuned' yn y DU, ac maent yn cyfeirio at y dystiolaeth fod pobl a chymunedau, ledled y wlad, yn creu eu hatebion tai a chymdogaeth eu hunain, yn gwneud cartrefi cynaliadwy a pharhaol, yn adeiladu cymunedau lleol gwydn a hyderus, yn datblygu sgiliau nad oeddent erioed yn gwybod eu bod ganddynt. Wel, dyna fy mhrofiad lleol innau hefyd.
Felly, rhan olaf fy nadl yw gofyn y cwestiwn: ai dyma'r ateb i bob dim o ran anghenion tai yn ein cymunedau? Wel, yr ateb i'r cwestiwn hwnnw, wrth gwrs, yw 'na'. Ond rwy'n dadlau y gall cefnogi a datblygu ymagwedd gydfuddiannol a chydweithredol fod yn rhan o'r ateb—rhan bwysig oherwydd rhai o'r ffactorau a nodais yn y ddadl. Fodd bynnag, mae iddo le yn y gyfres o gamau gweithredu sy'n helpu i ddiwallu'r angen am dai yn ein cymunedau. Mae'n golygu bod pobl yn cymryd rheolaeth dros reoli eu cartrefi, heb y bwgan na'r baich o fodloni angen cyfranddalwyr am elw. Yn fy mhrofiad i, mae wedi arwain at gryfhau'r gymuned, gyda gwerthoedd cynaliadwy a gofalgar yn symud i'r canol mewn atebion tai. A dyna pam y byddaf yn cymeradwyo modelau o'r fath i Lywodraeth Cymru, i'r Cynulliad hwn, ac rwy'n gobeithio gweld atebion tai cydfuddiannol a chydweithredol yn cael eu cefnogi yn y degawd i ddod.
First, I'd like to thank Dawn Bowden for giving me a minute in this debate, and more importantly, for bringing this debate before the Chamber today. People will know that I have been a long-time advocate and great supporter of the growth of co-operative housing. There are three types of co-operative housing: the building co-operatives—Turkey, France, Toronto in Canada; owner co-operatives—Italy, southern and eastern Europe, Germany, Sweden, Norway, Austria, USA, especially in New York, and Israel—and in New York, actually having a co-operative, you can live in some of the most sought-after properties in New York; and renter co-operatives in Denmark, Germany, Belgium, Italy, Switzerland, Ireland, Australia, Austria, USA and Canada.
What sort of numbers are we talking about? Turkey: 25 per cent of the total housing stock, almost 1.5 million units; Sweden: 18 per cent of the stock, almost 0.75 million units. And then we can look at other countries. Norway: 15 per cent, 320,000 units; Germany: 10 per cent of the rental stock, over 2 million units; Austria: 8 per cent of the total stock, almost 0.33 million. We're talking about very large numbers here and it can be done in the rest of the world. It's not a left-wing or right-wing view. In New York, if you told them they were living in left-wing housing in those very expensive co-operatives, they would go potty. They'd be really annoyed, wouldn't they? But, you've really got to understand that it is a method of providing large numbers of housing, which we aren't using in Wales at the moment, and whilst I, as I said earlier, am really a great fan of council housing, we need more housing, and co-operatives are another form of it. Why can't we do the same in Wales as they're doing across the whole of the rest of the world?
Yn gyntaf, hoffwn ddiolch i Dawn Bowden am roi munud i mi yn y ddadl hon, ac yn bwysicach, am ddod â'r ddadl hon gerbron y Siambr heddiw. Bydd pobl yn gwybod fy mod wedi bod yn hyrwyddo tai cydweithredol dros gyfnod hir ac yn cefnogi ei dwf yn fawr. Ceir tri math o dai cydweithredol: y cwmnïau adeiladu cydweithredol—Twrci, Ffrainc, Toronto yng Nghanada; perchnogion cydweithredol—yr Eidal, de a dwyrain Ewrop, yr Almaen, Sweden, Norwy, Awstria, UDA, yn enwedig yn Efrog Newydd, ac Israel—ac yn Efrog Newydd mewn gwirionedd, ceir cwmni cydweithredol lle gallwch fyw mewn peth o'r eiddo y mae mwyaf o alw amdano yn Efrog Newydd; a chwmnïau cydweithredol ar gyfer rhentwyr yn Nenmarc, yr Almaen, Gwlad Belg, yr Eidal, y Swistir, Iwerddon, Awstralia, Awstria, UDA a Chanada.
Pa fath o niferoedd rydym yn sôn amdanynt? Twrci: 25 y cant o gyfanswm y stoc dai, bron 1.5 miliwn o unedau; Sweden: 18 y cant o'r stoc, bron i 0.75 miliwn o unedau. Ac yna gallwn edrych ar wledydd eraill. Norwy: 15 y cant, 320,000 o unedau; Yr Almaen: 10 y cant o'r stoc rhentu, dros 2 filiwn o unedau; Awstria: 8 y cant o gyfanswm y stoc, bron i 0.33 miliwn. Rydym yn sôn am niferoedd mawr iawn yma ac mae modd gwneud hyn yng ngweddill y byd. Nid safbwynt asgell chwith neu asgell dde ydyw. Yn Efrog Newydd, pe baech yn dweud wrthynt eu bod yn byw mewn tai asgell chwith yn y cwmnïau cydweithredol drud iawn hynny, byddent yn benwan. Byddent wedi'u cythruddo'n fawr, oni fyddent? Ond mae'n rhaid i chi ddeall ei fod yn ddull o ddarparu nifer fawr o dai, nad ydym yn ei ddefnyddio yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd, ac er fy mod, fel y dywedais yn gynharach, yn cefnogi tai cyngor yn fawr iawn, mae angen mwy o dai arnom, ac mae cwmnïau cydweithredol yn fath arall o system dai. Pam na allwn wneud yr un peth yng Nghymru ag y maent yn ei wneud ym mhob rhan o weddill y byd?
Thank you. Can I now call on the Minister for Housing and Local Government to reply to the debate? Julie James.
Diolch. A gaf fi alw yn awr ar y Gweinidog Tai a Llywodraeth Leol i ymateb i'r ddadl? Julie James.
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and it's a real pleasure to have the opportunity to talk about the role that co-operative and community-led housing can have in meeting the housing needs of our communities here in Wales. All types of community-led housing, including co-operative housing, can empower Welsh citizens and provide locally driven housing solutions for local communities. I've had the real pleasure of visiting Merthyr Valleys Homes. They've got some really innovative stuff going on, and I was offered the chance to speak to any resident I fancied chatting to over the most delicious cakes and tea, and they were all universal in saying that they loved it. So, you can't really have a much better accolade than that.
Our top priority is social housing, and I've been very clear here in the Chamber about my commitment to building more social homes in Wales. I know it's a passion we share across the Chamber, and we know that it provides not only quality homes, but the support needed to ensure people can sustain their tenancies and thrive. It positively impacts on health, mental health and education. But we know from the latest housing need figures that we are not building enough social homes. Community-led housing can, and should be part, therefore, of the solution. We know the interest in the sector is not growing as much as we would like here in Wales, and I'm really open to hearing ideas from Members about how we can better generate growth in the sector.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ac mae'n bleser gwirioneddol cael y cyfle i siarad am y rôl y gall tai cydweithredol a thai dan arweiniad y gymuned ei chael yn diwallu anghenion tai ein cymunedau yma yng Nghymru. Gall pob math o dai dan arweiniad y gymuned, gan gynnwys tai cydweithredol, rymuso dinasyddion Cymru a darparu atebion tai a yrrir yn lleol ar gyfer cymunedau lleol. Cefais y pleser gwirioneddol o ymweld â Cartrefi Cymoedd Merthyr. Mae ganddynt bethau hynod o arloesol yn digwydd, a chefais gyfle i siarad ag unrhyw breswylydd y dymunwn sgwrsio â hwy dros y cacennau a'r te mwyaf blasus, ac roeddent i gyd yn unfryd eu bod wrth eu bodd â'r drefn. Felly, ni allwch gael canmoliaeth sy'n llawer gwell na hynny mewn gwirionedd.
Ein prif flaenoriaeth yw tai cymdeithasol, ac rwyf wedi dweud yn glir iawn yma yn y Siambr am fy ymrwymiad i adeiladu mwy o gartrefi cymdeithasol yng Nghymru. Rwy'n gwybod ei fod yn ddyhead a rannwn ar draws y Siambr, ac fe wyddom ei fod yn darparu nid yn unig cartrefi o safon, ond y cymorth sydd ei angen i sicrhau y gall pobl gynnal eu tenantiaethau a ffynnu. Mae'n effeithio'n gadarnhaol ar iechyd, iechyd meddwl ac addysg. Ond gwyddom o'r ystadegau diweddaraf am yr angen am dai nad ydym yn adeiladu digon o gartrefi cymdeithasol. Gall tai dan arweiniad y gymuned fod yn rhan o'r ateb felly. Rydym yn gwybod nad yw'r diddordeb yn y sector yn tyfu gymaint ag y byddem yn hoffi yma yng Nghymru, ac rwy'n wirioneddol agored i glywed syniadau gan yr Aelodau ynglŷn â sut y gallwn gynhyrchu twf yn well yn y sector.
And I think Mike Hedges hit the nail on the head, actually: there's a sort of misapprehension about what it means. But I've actually visited a west side apartment in New York that's a co-operative, and it looked like a penthouse to me, is all I can say. So, I do think there's a misconception—he's quite right about that. What it also does is it allows us to drive different models and types of tenure into our housing across Wales, and that kind of mixed tenure is really important. So, I don't think any set of housing that's a single tenure is actually particularly useful. So, it really is a good way of driving different models of ownership into different bits of Wales and can really be beneficial.
I'm particularly interested, actually, in models that allow people to have a shared equity ownership—part of a co-operative—in places described as 'deprived communities', in inverted commas. Members will have heard me say before how cross I am about the fact that the place I grew up in is described as a 'deprived community', which is news to both me and my parents, but there we go. But, driving different models of ownership into places that are single-tenure social housing, for example, can be a really useful model as well, as it allows different types of people to live in harmony together in a community, which is what we're looking for.
So, we've been investing in community-led housing since 2012. We've tried several different approaches, including providing £1.9 million-worth of capital funding to support three top-down ministerial-led pioneer schemes. That approach has had some success. For example, the co-operative at Loftus Garden in Newport by Pobl has been great; it's helped those in the co-op take on more responsibility for their homes and their community and led to a greater community spirit being fostered in the wider development. That, sadly, has not been the case with all the schemes, which is why we've taken stock of our approach going forward.
I do think the Taf Fechan scheme that Dawn Bowden mentioned is a very good example of how it can work, where you take somewhere that nobody really wanted to live, let's be honest, and turn it into a very desirable place to live, because as I understand it there's a good long list of people who'd love to live there if they could just get in. So, it can, critically, lead to the turnaround of those kinds of developments as well. So, I'm really committed to that, I'm really committed to making sure that the good examples that we do have in Wales—and they do exist—are spread out across Wales, but we do need to get local authority support to be involved in that as well.
Dawn Bowden mentioned the support that the local council there had given to the support of the co-operative, and I know that Swansea City Council has moved to adopt a co-operative housing policy recently as well. So, I think all local authorities can learn from that, and I'd be really keen to get that into the spread of excellent practice across Wales. So, I'm really keen to do that. What I'm also keen to do, though, is not have it to be top-down. So, what we want to do is enable communities to come together and form a co-operative in order to take control over their lives. So, I think it works really well, as you described, Dawn, when people get really involved in it and they can have a decision-making part in that. So, I'm very keen on being able to enable that rather than trying to push it onto communities, which hasn't always been as successful as we'd like, even with the best of intentions.
So, one of the best ways to increase provision is to provide support of that sort. So, our funding through the Wales Co-operative Centre is designed to deliver that support and I'm pleased we've widened our support to a larger scale programme for community-led housing in conjunction with the Nationwide Foundation as well, to provide that underlying level of support.
The expertise available through the Communities Creating Homes programme is being used to support new and existing community-led housing groups across Wales. It's a toolkit for developing co-operative housing schemes that outlines actions that housing associations can take to support community-led housing, and I'm pleased to see that the ELGC committee recognised the important role that the toolkit can have in its recent report on empty properties. The other thing I want to be really clear about is in broadening the support to ensure a focus on embedding the core co-operative principles, we want to be sure that the seven core principles are vital and embedded all at once. So, you can't sort of pick and mix it, you want to get all of the principles, as you've described, to get the successful programme running. So, we've got a lot more interest increasing, and this debate is an excellent way of getting the message out there as well. So, I'm really grateful to Dawn for raising it.
I'm not currently looking at introducing community land trusts at the moment. One of the reasons for that is that I'm not convinced that that would work, but I would just like to say in the Chamber that if a project came forward that relied on that kind of budget, we would be willing to look at it. Broadly, I'm saying we'd be willing to look at any community-led project that we thought might develop homes for people along those co-operative lines. So, I'm very happy to look at that, although I'm not minded to introduce the fund as such just the moment.
The affordable housing supply review reported back in May. Based on their recommendations, we're seeking to consolidate the number of bespoke schemes and funding pots we have available.
Ac rwy'n credu bod Mike Hedges wedi taro'r hoelen ar ei phen, mewn gwirionedd: mae yna ryw fath o gamsyniad ynglŷn â'r hyn y mae'n ei olygu. Ond rwyf wedi ymweld â fflat yn ardal orllewinol Efrog Newydd sy'n rhan o gwmni cydweithredol, ac roedd yn edrych fel pentws i mi, dyna'r cyfan y gallaf ei ddweud. Felly, rwy'n credu bod camsyniad—mae'n llygad ei le ynglŷn â hynny. Yr hyn y mae'n ei wneud hefyd yw caniatáu inni hyrwyddo gwahanol fodelau a mathau o ddeiliadaeth yn ein sector tai ledled Cymru, ac mae'r math hwnnw o ddeiliadaeth gymysg yn bwysig iawn. Felly, nid wyf yn credu bod unrhyw set o dai un math o ddeiliadaeth yn arbennig o ddefnyddiol mewn gwirionedd. Felly, mae'n ffordd dda o ysgogi gwahanol fodelau o berchnogaeth i wahanol rannau o Gymru a gall fod yn fuddiol iawn.
Mae gennyf ddiddordeb arbennig mewn modelau sy'n caniatáu i bobl gael perchnogaeth rhannu ecwiti—rhan o gwmni cydweithredol—mewn mannau a ddisgrifiwyd fel 'cymunedau difreintiedig', mewn dyfynodau. Bydd yr Aelodau wedi fy nghlywed yn dweud o'r blaen mor flin wyf fi fod y fan lle cefais fy magu'n cael ei ddisgrifio fel 'cymuned ddifreintiedig', sy'n newyddion i mi a fy rhieni, ond dyna ni. Ond gall hyrwyddo gwahanol fodelau o berchnogaeth mewn lleoedd lle nad oes ond deiliadaeth tai cymdeithasol, er enghraifft, fod yn fodel defnyddiol iawn hefyd, gan ei fod yn caniatáu i wahanol fathau o bobl fyw'n gytûn gyda'i gilydd mewn cymuned, sef yr hyn y chwiliwn amdano.
Felly, rydym wedi bod yn buddsoddi mewn tai dan arweiniad y gymuned ers 2012. Rydym wedi rhoi cynnig ar sawl gwahanol ddull, gan gynnwys darparu gwerth £1.9 miliwn o arian cyfalaf i gefnogi tri chynllun arloesi o'r brig i lawr a arweinir gan Weinidogion. Mae'r dull hwnnw wedi cael rhywfaint o lwyddiant. Er enghraifft, mae'r cwmni cydweithredol yng Ngardd Loftus yng Nghasnewydd gan Pobl wedi bod yn wych; mae wedi helpu'r rheini yn y cwmni cydweithredol i ysgwyddo mwy o gyfrifoldeb am eu cartrefi a'u cymuned ac wedi arwain at feithrin mwy o ysbryd cymunedol yn y datblygiad ehangach. Yn anffodus, nid yw hynny wedi digwydd gyda'r holl gynlluniau, a dyna pam ein bod wedi pwyso a mesur ein dull o weithredu ar gyfer y dyfodol.
Rwy'n credu bod cynllun Taf Fechan y soniodd Dawn Bowden amdano yn enghraifft dda iawn o sut y gall weithio, lle rydych yn cymryd rhywle nad oedd neb eisiau byw ynddo mewn gwirionedd, gadewch i ni fod yn onest, a'i droi'n lle dymunol iawn i fyw ynddo, oherwydd, yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf, mae rhestr hir o bobl a fyddai wrth eu bodd yn byw yno pe baent yn cael. Felly, yn allweddol, gall arwain at drawsnewid y mathau hynny o ddatblygiadau hefyd. Rwy'n wirioneddol ymrwymedig i hynny, rwy'n wirioneddol ymrwymedig i sicrhau bod yr enghreifftiau da sydd gennym yng Nghymru—ac maent yn bodoli—yn cael eu lledaenu ar draws Cymru, ond mae angen i ni gael cymorth gan awdurdodau lleol i fod yn rhan o hynny hefyd.
Soniodd Dawn Bowden am y cymorth a roddodd y cyngor lleol yno i gefnogi'r cwmni cydweithredol, a gwn fod Cyngor Dinas Abertawe wedi pleidleisio i fabwysiadu polisi tai cydweithredol yn ddiweddar hefyd. Felly, rwy'n credu y gall pob awdurdod lleol ddysgu o hynny, a buaswn yn awyddus iawn i gael hynny'n rhan o ledaeniad arferion rhagorol ledled Cymru. Felly, rwy'n awyddus iawn i wneud hynny. Fodd bynnag, rhywbeth arall rwy'n awyddus i'w wneud yw peidio â'i gael o'r brig i lawr. Rydym am iddo alluogi cymunedau i ddod ynghyd a ffurfio cwmni cydweithredol er mwyn cymryd rheolaeth ar eu bywydau. Felly, rwy'n credu ei fod yn gweithio'n dda iawn, fel gwnaethoch ddisgrifio, Dawn, pan fydd pobl yn cymryd rhan go iawn a gallant gael rhan yn gwneud penderfyniadau yn hynny. Felly, rwy'n awyddus iawn i allu galluogi hynny yn hytrach na cheisio ei wthio ar gymunedau, gan nad yw hynny wedi bod mor llwyddiannus ag yr hoffem bob amser, hyd yn oed gyda'r bwriadau gorau.
Felly, un o'r ffyrdd gorau o gynyddu'r ddarpariaeth yw darparu cymorth o'r math hwnnw. Mae ein cyllid drwy Ganolfan Cydweithredol Cymru wedi'i gynllunio i ddarparu'r cymorth hwnnw ac rwy'n falch ein bod wedi ehangu ein cefnogaeth i raglen ar raddfa fwy ar gyfer tai dan arweiniad y gymuned ar y cyd â'r Nationwide Foundation yn ogystal, i ddarparu'r lefel sylfaenol honno o gymorth.
Defnyddir yr arbenigedd sydd ar gael drwy'r rhaglen Cymunedau'n Creu Cartrefi i gefnogi grwpiau tai newydd a rhai sy'n bodoli eisoes dan arweiniad y gymuned ledled Cymru. Pecyn cymorth ydyw ar gyfer datblygu cynlluniau tai cydweithredol ac mae'n amlinellu'r camau y gall cymdeithasau tai eu cymryd i gefnogi tai dan arweiniad y gymuned, ac rwy'n falch o weld bod y Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau wedi cydnabod y rôl bwysig y gall y pecyn cymorth ei chael yn ei adroddiad diweddar ar eiddo gwag. Y peth arall rwy'n awyddus i fod yn glir iawn yn ei gylch wrth ehangu'r gefnogaeth i sicrhau ffocws ar wreiddio'r egwyddorion cydweithredol craidd, yw ein bod am sicrhau bod y saith egwyddor graidd yn hanfodol ac wedi'u gwreiddio i gyd ar unwaith. Felly, ni allwch ddewis a dethol, rydych am gynnwys yr holl egwyddorion, fel rydych wedi disgrifio, er mwyn cael y rhaglen lwyddiannus yn weithredol. Felly, mae mwyfwy o ddiddordeb yn hyn, ac mae'r ddadl hon yn ffordd ragorol o gyfleu'r neges hefyd. Felly, rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn i Dawn am roi sylw iddi.
Nid wyf yn ystyried cyflwyno ymddiriedolaethau tir cymunedol ar hyn o bryd. Un o'r rhesymau am hynny yw nad wyf wedi fy narbwyllo y byddai hynny'n gweithio, ond hoffwn ddweud yn y Siambr, pe bai prosiect yn cael ei gyflwyno sy'n dibynnu ar gyllideb o'r fath, byddem yn fodlon ei ystyried. Yn fras, rwy'n dweud y byddem yn barod i edrych ar unrhyw brosiect dan arweiniad y gymuned a allai ddatblygu cartrefi i bobl ar hyd y llinellau cydweithredol hynny yn ein barn ni. Felly, rwy'n hapus iawn i edrych ar hynny, er nad wyf yn bwriadu cyflwyno'r gronfa fel y cyfryw ar hyn o bryd.
Cafodd adroddiad yr adolygiad o'r cyflenwad tai fforddiadwy ei gyflwyno yn ôl ym mis Mai. Yn seiliedig ar eu hargymhellion, rydym yn ceisio cydgrynhoi'r nifer o gynlluniau pwrpasol a photiau ariannu sydd ar gael gennym.
Will you take an intervention?
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?
I'm so sorry, Mark; I didn't see you.
Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, Mark; nid oeddwn yn eich gweld.
I'm sorry, I didn't speak very loudly. I used to work for a building society that’s now part of the Nationwide that you mentioned, and also as a voluntary member of a housing association board. I'm delighted you've brought this forward and emphasised that these are co-operative mutuals, and members pay £1 and they have a vote in their organisation.
The transfer associations you've mentioned have, by and large, adopted the Welsh housing quality standard plus model, which is about people unlocking the strengths and developing sustainability in communities, and that was brought forward by the Chartered Institute of Housing way back in a previous Assembly. In north Wales, Cartrefi Conwy and Cartrefi Cymunedol Gwynedd have adopted this. But how, Minister, can we ensure that that tenant’s voice, that resident’s voice is also heard, and that the WHQS model is applied as a positive in the 11 councils that retained their stock, but where the same issues apply?
Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, ni siaradais yn uchel iawn. Roeddwn yn arfer gweithio i gymdeithas adeiladu sydd bellach yn rhan o'r Nationwide y sonioch chi amdano, ac fel aelod gwirfoddol o fwrdd cymdeithas dai. Rwyf wrth fy modd eich bod wedi cyflwyno hyn gan bwysleisio mai cwmnïau cydfuddiannol cydweithredol yw'r rhain, ac mae aelodau'n talu £1 ac yn cael pleidlais yn eu trefniadaeth.
At ei gilydd, mae'r cymdeithasau trosglwyddo y sonioch chi amdanynt wedi mabwysiadu model safon ansawdd tai Cymru a mwy, sy'n ymwneud â sicrhau bod pobl yn datgloi'r cryfderau ac yn datblygu cynaliadwyedd mewn cymunedau, a chafodd hynny ei gyflwyno gan y Sefydliad Tai Siartredig ymhell yn ôl mewn Cynulliad blaenorol. Yng ngogledd Cymru, mae Cartrefi Conwy a Cartrefi Cymunedol Gwynedd wedi ei fabwysiadu. Ond Weinidog, sut y gallwn sicrhau bod llais y tenant, llais y preswylydd yn cael ei glywed hefyd, a bod model safon ansawdd tai Cymru yn cael ei ddefnyddio fel un cadarnhaol yn yr 11 o gynghorau a gadwodd eu stoc, ond lle mae'r un materion yn berthnasol?
I welcome that intervention. I'll just finish the thought I was having, which was basically I'm keen to ensure community-led housing groups can access capital funding of whatever sort. So, if you're aware of groups that want capital funding of that sort, even if we haven't got a bespoke fund, it’s worth getting in touch, because I'm very keen to support them in partnership with an RSL or not, or the local authority or whatever.
On that particular point, actually, I'm looking at domain regulations. So, I've recently said in this Chamber that I'm looking at reviewing the regulatory regime for RSLs, and one of the things that I'm also looking to do there is have what’s called, 'domain regulations', so that’s regulation of tenant participation and voice across social housing. So, that’s not the governance and financial controls, because obviously they're very different in a local authority, but it is the tenant voice, effectively. So, I just reiterate that we are looking at that.
We've also had the Communities Creating Homes programme undertaking independent research into the wider benefits of living in co-operative or community-led housing, and I'm due to launch the findings of that report on 7 November. I look forward to hearing about the wider benefits individuals feel they gain from living in community-led housing associations. I have heard them personally as well in, actually, one of the examples that Dawn talked about. So, I've got no doubt that community-led housing must be a part of the solution to the housing crisis we face in Wales.
I do believe in truly sustainable communities of mixed tenure, where land sites in public and private ownership are used to build the right homes to meet the need that exists. That does mean sites should have a greater proportion of affordable housing than is often the case at the moment, and it also means that it should not be immediately obvious which homes are privately owned and which are affordable homes on one housing development. I cannot say often enough that I do not want to see the kind of division between communities which is neither necessary nor helpful that arises when you corral social housing into one bit of a development.
All types of community-led housing can help us in achieving sustainable communities. We can explore alternative solutions for wider Government priorities. For example, when I met with the Wales Co-operative Centre back in March, I challenged them to explore how community-led housing can be part of an innovative community approach to leaseholder management fees. So, you've mentioned a small part of that in the example you said—it’s gone out of my head. Taf Fechan, wasn't it? And I think community-led housing can also be part of a town-centre-regeneration approach to include mixed-used properties. So, this business about how you control who has what part of the lease can be done on a co-operative basis. And I think that is one of the solutions that we'd like to look at.
So, I'll just conclude by reiterating my call to Members that many of us share the same aspirations for housing in general, and broad support for the co-operative and community-led housing movement in Wales, and I'm very open to working with all Members on this agenda to better support those solutions. Diolch.
Rwy'n croesawu'r ymyriad. Rwyf am orffen y pwynt oedd yn fy meddwl, sef fy mod yn awyddus yn y bôn i sicrhau bod grwpiau tai dan arweiniad y gymuned yn gallu cael gafael ar gyllid cyfalaf o ba fath bynnag. Felly, os ydych chi'n ymwybodol o grwpiau sydd eisiau cyllid cyfalaf o'r math hwnnw, hyd yn oed os nad oes gennym gronfa bwrpasol, mae'n werth cysylltu, oherwydd rwy'n awyddus iawn i'w cefnogi mewn partneriaeth â landlord cymdeithasol cofrestredig neu beidio, neu'r awdurdod lleol neu beth bynnag.
Ar y pwynt penodol hwnnw, rwy'n edrych ar reoliadau parth. Felly, rwyf wedi dweud yn ddiweddar yn y Siambr hon fy mod yn edrych ar adolygu'r drefn reoleiddio ar gyfer landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig, ac un o'r pethau rwyf hefyd yn bwriadu eu gwneud yn y fan honno yw cael yr hyn a elwir yn 'reoliadau parth', sef rheoleiddio cyfranogiad a llais tenantiaid ar draws y sector tai cymdeithasol. Nid y drefn lywodraethu a'r rheolaethau ariannol, oherwydd mae'n amlwg eu bod hwy'n wahanol iawn mewn awdurdod lleol, ond llais y tenant, i bob pwrpas. Felly, rwy'n ailadrodd ein bod yn edrych ar hynny.
Hefyd, rydym wedi cael y rhaglen Cymunedau'n Creu Cartrefi yn gwneud ymchwil annibynnol i fanteision ehangach byw mewn tai cydweithredol neu dai dan arweiniad y gymuned, ac rwyf i fod i lansio canfyddiadau'r adroddiad hwnnw ar 7 Tachwedd. Edrychaf ymlaen at glywed am y manteision ehangach y mae unigolion yn teimlo y byddant yn eu hennill o fyw mewn cymdeithasau tai dan arweiniad y gymuned. Rwyf wedi eu clywed fy hun hefyd, mewn gwirionedd, yn un o'r enghreifftiau y siaradodd Dawn amdanynt. Felly, nid oes gennyf amheuaeth fod rhaid i dai dan arweiniad y gymuned fod yn rhan o'r ateb i'r argyfwng tai sy'n ein hwynebu yng Nghymru.
Rwy'n credu mewn cymunedau gwirioneddol gynaliadwy sy'n cynnwys deiliadaeth gymysg, lle defnyddir safleoedd tir sy'n eiddo cyhoeddus a phreifat i adeiladu'r cartrefi iawn i ateb yr angen sy'n bodoli. Golyga hynny y dylai safleoedd gael cyfran fwy o dai fforddiadwy nag sy'n digwydd yn aml ar hyn o bryd, ac mae hefyd yn golygu na ddylai fod yn amlwg ar unwaith pa gartrefi sydd mewn perchnogaeth breifat a pha rai sy'n dai fforddiadwy ar un datblygiad tai. Ni allaf ddweud yn ddigon aml nad wyf am weld y math o raniad rhwng cymunedau sy'n ddiangen a di-fudd fel sy'n digwydd pan fyddwch yn corlannu tai cymdeithasol mewn un rhan o ddatblygiad.
Gall pob math o dai dan arweiniad y gymuned ein helpu i sicrhau cymunedau cynaliadwy. Gallwn archwilio atebion amgen ar gyfer blaenoriaethau ehangach y Llywodraeth. Er enghraifft, pan gyfarfûm â Chanolfan Cydweithredol Cymru yn ôl ym mis Mawrth, fe'u heriais i archwilio sut y gall tai dan arweiniad y gymuned fod yn rhan o ddull cymunedol arloesol o ymdrin â ffioedd rheoli lesddeiliaid. Rydych wedi sôn am ran fach o hynny yn yr enghraifft a nodoch—mae wedi mynd o fy mhen. Taf Fechan, onid e? Ac rwy'n credu y gall tai dan arweiniad y gymuned fod yn rhan o ddull adfywio canol trefi hefyd i gynnwys eiddo defnydd cymysg. Felly, gellir gwneud y mater hwn ynglŷn â sut i reoli pwy sydd â pha ran o'r brydles ar sail gydweithredol. Ac rwy'n credu mai dyna un o'r atebion yr hoffem edrych arnynt.
Felly rwyf am orffen drwy ailadrodd fy ngalwad i'r Aelodau fod llawer ohonom yn rhannu'r un dyheadau ar gyfer tai yn gyffredinol, a cheir cefnogaeth eang i'r mudiad tai cydweithredol a dan arweiniad y gymuned yng Nghymru, ac rwy'n agored iawn i weithio gyda phob Aelod ar yr agenda hon i gefnogi'r atebion hynny'n well. Diolch.
Thank you very much. And that brings today’s proceedings to a close. Thank you.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. A daw hynny â thrafodion heddiw i ben. Diolch.
Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 19:14.
The meeting ended at 19:14.