Y Cyfarfod Llawn - Y Bumed Senedd
Plenary - Fifth Senedd
24/10/2017Cynnwys
Contents
Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 13:30 gyda’r Llywydd (Elin Jones) yn y Gadair.
The Assembly met at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.
Galw’r Aelodau i drefn.
I call Members to order.
Mae [R] yn dynodi bod yr Aelod wedi datgan buddiant. Mae [W] yn dynodi bod y cwestiwn wedi’i gyflwyno yn Gymraeg.
[R] signifies the Member has declared an interest. [W] signifies that the question was tabled in Welsh.
Yr eitem gyntaf ar ein hagenda ni y prynhawn yma yw cwestiynau i’r Prif Weinidog. Mae’r cwestiwn cyntaf [OAQ51256] wedi ei dynnu yn ôl, ac felly’r ail gwestiwn, Janet Finch-Saunders.
The first item on our agenda this afternoon is questions to the First Minister. The first question [OAQ51256] is withdrawn. Therefore, question 2, Janet Finch-Saunders.
2. Sut y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn sicrhau diogelwch cleifion yng Nghymru? (OAQ51245)
2. How does the Welsh Government ensure patient safety in Wales? (OAQ51245)
We hold all NHS organisations to account on a wide range of patient safety indicators and we encourage an open reporting culture of serious incidents to enable full investigation of every case.
Rydym ni’n dwyn holl sefydliadau'r GIG i gyfrif ar amrywiaeth eang o ddangosyddion diogelwch cleifion ac rydym yn annog diwylliant adrodd agored o ddigwyddiadau difrifol i alluogi ymchwiliad llawn o bob achos.
Thank you, First Minister. In north Wales, however, we were shocked last week to learn that, of the 77 unintended or unexpected incidents resulting in patient deaths registered across Wales in the past 12 months, more than half of these fell within the Betsi Cadwaladr University Local Health Board. Every single one of these cases will have been simply devastating to the family and loved ones of these patients. First Minister, questions will be asked as to how the special measures and, indeed, your Government’s intervention in realising any improvement is, in fact, actually now to the contrary. I am asking you now: will you please commit to an inquiry as to why the safety of patients under this board and your Government’s responsibility appears to be increasingly compromised?
Diolch, Prif Weinidog. Yn y gogledd, fodd bynnag, cawsom sioc yr wythnos diwethaf i ddarganfod, o'r 77 digwyddiad nas bwriadwyd neu annisgwyl a arweiniodd at farwolaethau cleifion wedi’u cofrestru ledled Cymru yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, bod mwy na hanner y rhain ym Mwrdd Iechyd Lleol Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr. Bydd pob un o'r achosion hyn wedi bod yn ddinistriol iawn i deuluoedd ac anwyliaid y cleifion hyn. Prif Weinidog, bydd cwestiynau’n cael eu gofyn ynghylch sut y mae'r mesurau arbennig ac, yn wir, ymyrraeth eich Llywodraeth o ran gwireddu unrhyw welliant yn gweithio i’r gwrthwyneb erbyn hyn, mewn gwirionedd. Rwy’n gofyn i chi nawr: a wnewch chi ymrwymo i ymchwiliad i pam mae’n ymddangos bod diogelwch cleifion o dan y bwrdd hwn a chyfrifoldeb eich Llywodraeth mewn perygl cynyddol?
The Member doesn’t fully understand these way the statistics are compiled. First of all, we encourage honesty and openness, and that means we encourage people to report serious incidents. Now, that means, just like the crime statistics, for example, that when more people report serious incidents, then more are recorded. It doesn’t mean that there are actually more serious incidents. That said, of course, we want to make sure those incidents are reported. Nothing should be said or done that will discourage reporting in the future, because we want to make sure that incidents are reported and are out in the open. I can say to the Member that, in 2016-17, the crude hospital mortality rate for BCU hospitals was 1.79 per cent, which is less than the Welsh average of 1.81 per cent. So, yes, it is important that every case is investigated, but it is important that people come forward, that there is an open culture dealing with complaints. And that I believe is what we’re seeing here—more complaints coming forward rather than more cases coming forward.
Nid yw'r Aelod yn deall yn llawn sut y mae'r ystadegau'n cael eu casglu. Yn gyntaf oll, rydym ni’n annog gonestrwydd a natur agored, ac mae hynny'n golygu ein bod ni’n annog pobl i adrodd am ddigwyddiadau difrifol. Nawr, mae hynny'n golygu, yn union fel yr ystadegau troseddu, er enghraifft, pan fo mwy o bobl yn adrodd am ddigwyddiadau difrifol, yna mae mwy’n cael eu cofnodi. Nid yw'n golygu bod mwy o ddigwyddiadau difrifol mewn gwirionedd. Wedi dweud hynny, wrth gwrs, rydym ni eisiau sicrhau bod y digwyddiadau hynny’n cael eu hadrodd. Ni ddylid dweud na gwneud unrhyw beth a fydd yn atal adrodd yn y dyfodol, oherwydd rydym ni eisiau sicrhau bod digwyddiadau'n cael eu hadrodd a’u bod yn gyhoeddus. Gallaf ddweud wrth yr Aelod mai 1.79 y cant oedd y gyfradd marwolaethau ysbyty crai ar gyfer ysbytai PBC yn 2016-17, sy'n is na chyfartaledd Cymru o 1.81 y cant. Felly, ydy, mae'n bwysig bod pob achos yn cael ei ymchwilio, ond mae'n bwysig bod pobl yn dod ymlaen, bod diwylliant agored wrth ymdrin â chwynion. Ac rwy’n credu mai dyma’r hyn yr ydym ni’n ei weld yma—mwy o gwynion yn dod i’r amlwg yn hytrach na mwy o achosion yn dod i’r amlwg.
3. Pa waith y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i fynd i'r afael â thlodi tanwydd yng Nghwm Cynon? (OAQ51248)
3. What work is the Welsh Government undertaking to tackle fuel poverty in the Cynon Valley? (OAQ51248)
Our key programme for tackling fuel poverty is Welsh Government Warm Homes. Since 2011, we have invested over £240 million to improve the energy efficiency of over 45,000 homes. Since 2012, Nest has spent over £9 million in the Rhondda Cynon Taf area installing energy efficiency measures to low-income households.
Cartrefi Cynnes Llywodraeth Cymru yw ein rhaglen allweddol ar gyfer mynd i'r afael â thlodi tanwydd. Ers 2011, rydym ni wedi buddsoddi dros £240 miliwn i wella effeithlonrwydd ynni mewn dros 45,000 o gartrefi. Ers 2012, mae Nyth wedi gwario dros £9 miliwn yn ardal Rhondda Cynon Taf yn cyflwyno mesurau effeithlonrwydd ynni i gartrefi incwm isel.
First Minister, despite the progress being made in reducing fuel poverty in the Cynon Valley and across Wales through the Welsh Government’s suite of practical actions, it seems unlikely that fuel poverty will be eliminated by the previous stated target of 2018. Does the Welsh Government plan to review the fuel poverty strategy in light of that, and, if so, what lessons will be drawn from the successful and not so successful elements of the current plan?
Prif Weinidog, er gwaethaf y cynnydd sy’n cael ei wneud o ran lleihau tlodi tanwydd yng Nghwm Cynon a ledled Cymru trwy gyfres o gamau gweithredu ymarferol Llywodraeth Cymru, mae'n ymddangos yn annhebygol y bydd tlodi tanwydd yn cael ei ddileu erbyn y targed o 2018 a nodwyd yn flaenorol. A yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn bwriadu adolygu'r strategaeth tlodi tanwydd yng ngoleuni hynny, ac, os felly, pa wersi fydd yn cael eu dysgu o elfennau llwyddiannus a heb fod mor llwyddiannus y cynllun presennol?
The Welsh housing condition survey is now under way. That will provide important data to help to inform delivery of ‘Prosperity for All’. It will provide us with a range of information, including updated national fuel poverty estimates and data to help with the targeting of delivery measures. It will also help us to inform discussions with stakeholders, and that will mean, of course, that we can draw on the data that the survey provides in order to help to strengthen the strategy in the future.
Mae arolwg cyflwr tai Cymru wedi cychwyn erbyn hyn. Bydd hwnnw'n darparu data pwysig a fydd yn helpu i hysbysu cyflwyniad 'Ffyniant i Bawb'. Bydd yn rhoi amrywiaeth o wybodaeth i ni, gan gynnwys amcangyfrifon a data tlodi tanwydd cenedlaethol wedi eu diweddaru i helpu gyda thargedu mesurau cyflawni. Bydd hefyd yn ein helpu i hysbysu trafodaethau gyda rhanddeiliaid, a bydd hynny'n golygu, wrth gwrs, y gallwn fanteisio ar y data y mae'r arolwg yn eu darparu er mwyn helpu i gryfhau'r strategaeth yn y dyfodol.
First Minister, I agree with what you said about energy efficiency, but it’s also quite a startling fact that, according to Citizens Advice Cymru, only 12 per cent of those on lowest incomes are on the lowest available tariffs, and I do think there’s a job to be done here to inform people of the tariffs that are available and the lowest ones. Welsh Government, local authorities and housing associations, perhaps when they’re doing the various schemes that you’ve been referring to, can remind people how important it is to seek out the lowest tariff.
Prif Weinidog, rwy’n cytuno â'r hyn a ddywedasoch am effeithlonrwydd ynni, ond mae hefyd yn ffaith eithaf syfrdanol, yn ôl Cyngor ar Bopeth Cymru, mai dim ond 12 y cant o'r rheini sydd ar yr incwm isaf sydd ar y tariffau isaf sydd ar gael, ac rwy’n credu bod gwaith i'w wneud yn y fan yma i hysbysu pobl am y tariffau sydd ar gael a'r rhai isaf. Gall Llywodraeth Cymru, awdurdodau lleol a chymdeithasau tai, pan fyddant yn ymgymryd â’r gwahanol gynlluniau yr ydych chi wedi bod yn cyfeirio atynt efallai, atgoffa pobl pa mor bwysig yw hi i ddod o hyd i’r tariff isaf.
I’m sympathetic to that. People tend to stick with the same provider on the same tariff through convenience, and then, of course, they fail to get the best deal. What will help is to see—as the UK Government has adopted a Labour Party policy—caps on variable energy tariffs. That will help many people who have not taken the opportunity to change their tariffs, or find they are not able to do so, to benefit from lower prices.
Rwy'n cydymdeimlo â hynny. Mae pobl yn dueddol o aros gyda'r un darparwr ar yr un tariff oherwydd hwylustod, ac yna, wrth gwrs, maen nhw'n methu â chael y fargen orau. Yr hyn a fydd yn helpu yw gweld—gan fod Llywodraeth y DU wedi mabwysiadu polisi'r Blaid Lafur—capiau ar dariffau ynni newidiol. Bydd hynny'n helpu llawer o bobl nad ydynt wedi manteisio ar y cyfle i newid eu tariffau, neu sy’n canfod nad ydynt yn gallu gwneud hynny, i elwa ar brisiau is.
Cwestiynau nawr gan arweinwyr y pleidiau, ac arweinydd Plaid Cymru, Leanne Wood.
Questions now from the party leaders, and, first of all, the Plaid Cymru leader, Leanne Wood.
Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, later today, your Government is making a statement on minimum alcohol pricing. Now, I’m aware of the public health arguments and the need to reduce deaths from cancer in particular. But public health policy should be looking at all problematic substance use. What assessment has your Government made of the impact of minimum alcohol pricing on the use of other substances, like illegal drugs?
Diolch, Llywydd. Prif Weinidog, yn ddiweddarach heddiw, mae eich Llywodraeth yn gwneud datganiad ar isafbris am alcohol. Nawr, rwy'n ymwybodol o’r dadleuon iechyd y cyhoedd a'r angen i leihau marwolaethau o ganser yn arbennig. Ond dylai polisi iechyd y cyhoedd fod yn ystyried yr holl ddefnydd o sylweddau sy'n peri problemau. Pa asesiad y mae eich Llywodraeth wedi ei wneud o effaith isafbris am alcohol ar y defnydd o sylweddau eraill, fel cyffuriau anghyfreithlon?
Well, we know that there will be some people, of course, who have an addiction. It may be that there are some who then look at illegal drugs. But, for the vast majority of people, this will have two outcomes. Firstly, it will help to reduce the health issues that surround over-drinking. And, secondly, actually, it will help pubs, because it’s the pubs that suffer the most as a result of supermarket selling that undercuts pubs, which we know are important for our communities. So, there is actually a commercial aspect to this as well. But we make no apologies for wanting to ensure that we get rid of scenarios where very cheap alcohol is available to people, in a way that causes them to drink too much and therefore affects their health.
Wel, rydym ni’n gwybod y bydd rhai pobl, wrth gwrs, sy’n gaeth. Efallai y bydd rhai sy’n ystyried cyffuriau anghyfreithlon wedyn. Ond, i’r mwyafrif llethol o bobl, bydd dau ganlyniad i hyn. Yn gyntaf, bydd yn helpu i leihau'r problemau iechyd sy'n gysylltiedig â goryfed. Ac, yn ail, bydd yn helpu tafarndai, a dweud y gwir, oherwydd y tafarndai sy'n dioddef fwyaf o ganlyniad i werthu gan archfarchnadoedd am brisiau llai na thafarndai, y gwyddom sy’n bwysig i'n cymunedau. Felly, mae agwedd fasnachol i hyn hefyd. Ond nid ydym yn ymddiheuro am fod eisiau sicrhau ein bod ni’n cael gwared ar sefyllfaoedd lle mae alcohol rhad iawn ar gael i bobl, mewn ffordd sy'n achosi iddyn nhw yfed gormod ac felly effeithio ar eu hiechyd.
I have some sympathy with the arguments that you’ve just outlined. But from your answer it doesn’t appear as though any assessment has been made between that link, which I hope very much is an oversight, First Minister. We need to reduce drug-related deaths as well as alcohol-related deaths. Now, drug-related deaths have reached a record high in Wales and England. According to latest figures, drug-related deaths are up 44 per cent compared to 2012. For Wales-only figures, in the latest year on record, there was also an increase on the previous year—168 people lost their lives in 2015. Hospital admissions are also up, which means an increased cost to public services and to the NHS. And, anecdotally, we all know that some people are openly using drugs in public places, on our streets, in town centres, where it’s less safe both for them and for others. First Minister, can you explain how your substance misuse strategy is using devolved powers to reduce drug-related hospital admissions and drug-related deaths?
Mae gen i rywfaint o gydymdeimlad â'r dadleuon yr ydych chi newydd eu hamlinellu. Ond nid yw’n ymddangos o'ch ateb fel pe byddai unrhyw asesiad wedi ei wneud o’r cysylltiad hwnnw, yr wyf yn gobeithio’n fawr sy’n rhywbeth y gwnaethoch chi ei anghofio, Prif Weinidog. Mae angen i ni leihau marwolaethau sy'n gysylltiedig â chyffuriau yn ogystal â marwolaethau sy'n gysylltiedig ag alcohol. Nawr, mae marwolaethau sy'n gysylltiedig â chyffuriau wedi cyrraedd eu huchaf erioed yng Nghymru a Lloegr. Yn ôl y ffigurau diweddaraf, mae marwolaethau sy'n gysylltiedig â chyffuriau 44 y cant yn uwch o’u cymharu â 2012. O ran ffigurau Cymru'n unig, yn y flwyddyn ddiweddaraf a gofnodwyd, roedd cynnydd o’r flwyddyn gynt hefyd—bu farw 168 o bobl yn 2015. Mae derbyniadau i ysbytai ar gynnydd hefyd, sy'n golygu cost gynyddol i wasanaethau cyhoeddus ac i'r GIG. Ac, yn anecdotaidd, rydym ni i gyd yn gwybod bod rhai pobl yn defnyddio cyffuriau yn agored mewn mannau cyhoeddus, ar ein strydoedd, yng nghanol trefi, lle mae'n llai diogel iddyn nhw ac i eraill. Prif Weinidog, a allwch chi esbonio sut y mae eich strategaeth camddefnyddio sylweddau yn defnyddio pwerau datganoledig i leihau derbyniadau i ysbytai a marwolaethau sy'n gysylltiedig â chyffuriau?
One of the problems that is faced at the moment is that the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 has always found it difficult to keep up with new drugs as they appear onto the market Drugs like Spice—fairly new, causes people to become extremely violent. And the leader of Plaid Cymru is absolutely right—there is too much open use of drugs, and dealers who seem not to be too concerned about being caught. The first thing to do is to target the dealers. They need to be convicted and jailed—that’s where they belong, off the streets. Yes, it’s true to say that others may come forward, but it’s important to send that message.
Now, that’s not enough in itself; I understand that. How do we deal with people who misuse drugs? Well the substance misuse strategy is there to help to do that. It is a combination, to my mind, of medical intervention, but also being strong in terms of clamping down on people who supply the drugs.
Un o'r problemau a wynebir ar hyn o bryd yw bod Deddf Camddefnyddio Cyffuriau 1971 wedi ei chael hi’n anodd erioed i gadw i fyny â chyffuriau newydd wrth iddyn nhw ymddangos ar y farchnad. Mae Cyffuriau fel Spice—sy’n gymharol newydd, yn achosi i bobl droi’n hynod dreisgar. Ac mae arweinydd Plaid Cymru yn llygad ei lle—mae gormod o ddefnydd agored o gyffuriau, a gwerthwyr nad yw’n ymddangos eu bod yn rhy bryderus am gael eu dal. Y peth cyntaf i'w wneud yw targedu'r gwerthwyr. Mae angen eu cael yn euog a'u carcharu—dyna lle ddylen nhw fod, oddi ar y strydoedd. Ydy, mae'n wir dweud y gall eraill ymddangos, ond mae'n bwysig anfon y neges honno.
Nawr, nid yw hynny'n ddigon ynddo'i hun; rwy'n deall hynny. Sut ydym ni'n ymdrin â phobl sy'n camddefnyddio cyffuriau? Wel mae'r strategaeth camddefnyddio sylweddau yno i helpu i wneud hynny. Mae'n gyfuniad, yn fy nhyb i, o ymyrraeth feddygol, ond hefyd bod yn gryf o ran cosbi pobl sy'n cyflenwi'r cyffuriau.
Well, locking up the dealers hasn’t worked so far, and those powers are outwith your control. What you do have control over is health. Now, a harm-reduction approach has proven to be the most effective at reducing drug-related deaths. And, in your substance misuse strategy, you claim to be committed to a harm-reduction approach. We won’t know whether the actions that you’ve taken are sufficient until the new Welsh statistics come out this winter. But, of course, the Wales-and-England statistics that we’ve already seen don’t bode well.
If you were serious about reducing drug-related deaths, as well as reducing the wider social problems, you would be open to the solutions proposed by Plaid Cymru police and crime commissioner, Arfon Jones. Will you agree to meet Arfon Jones and provide the police and others with the support that they need to enable a suitably located pilot safe injecting facility, which would reduce harm to the public, as well as help to reduce unnecessary deaths from harmful drugs?
Wel, nid yw rhoi’r gwerthwyr dan glo wedi gweithio hyd yma, ac mae'r pwerau hynny y tu hwnt i'ch rheolaeth. Yr hyn y mae gennych chi reolaeth drosto yw iechyd. Nawr, dull lleihau niwed fu’r dull mwyaf effeithiol o ran lleihau marwolaethau sy'n gysylltiedig â chyffuriau. Ac, yn eich strategaeth camddefnyddio sylweddau, rydych chi'n honni eich bod wedi ymrwymo i ddull lleihau niwed. Ni fyddwn yn gwybod a yw'r camau yr ydych chi wedi eu cymryd yn ddigonol tan i ystadegau newydd Cymru gael eu cyhoeddi y gaeaf hwn. Ond, wrth gwrs, nid yw’r ystadegau Cymru a Lloegr yr ydym ni wedi eu gweld eisoes yn argoeli’n dda.
Os oeddech chi o ddifrif am leihau marwolaethau sy'n gysylltiedig â chyffuriau, yn ogystal â lleihau'r problemau cymdeithasol ehangach, byddech chi’n agored i'r atebion a gynigiwyd gan gomisiynydd heddlu a throseddu Plaid Cymru, Arfon Jones. A wnewch chi gytuno i gyfarfod ag Arfon Jones a rhoi cymorth sydd ei angen arnynt i'r heddlu ac eraill i alluogi cyfleuster chwistrellu diogel arbrofol mewn lleoliad addas, a fyddai'n lleihau niwed i'r cyhoedd, yn ogystal â helpu i leihau marwolaethau diangen o gyffuriau niweidiol?
Well, there are already regular meetings that take place between the police and crime commissioners and Ministers in any event. It is absolutely right to say that there is very little point, nor would it be right, to see substance misuse as something that is a crime. There are people who have medical issues; the suppliers are different. But those people, of course, who are in a position where they misuse substances, the intervention for them has to be medical. And that means working with the police—that’s true; it’s what the substance misuse strategy is designed to do. She herself said we’re waiting for the Welsh figures, and we want to make sure those Welsh figures show that we are seeing a positive effect on substance misuse. But the challenge is always there: how do you deal with new drugs that appear, all the time, synthesised originally from drugs that didn’t exist in 1971? She’s right to mention heroin—right to mention heroin. But it’s hugely important that we work with the police and crime commissioners, as we do, and that we develop and give our substance misuse strategy the time to develop, and in that way I believe we will help more and more people to get off the substances they become addicted to.
Wel, ceir cyfarfodydd rheolaidd eisoes a gynhelir rhwng y comisiynwyr heddlu a throseddu a Gweinidogion beth bynnag. Mae'n gwbl gywir i ddweud nad oes llawer iawn o bwynt, ac na fyddai’n iawn ychwaith, i ystyried camddefnyddio sylweddau fel rhywbeth sy'n drosedd. Ceir pobl sydd â phroblemau meddygol; mae'r cyflenwyr yn wahanol. Ond y bobl hynny, wrth gwrs, sydd mewn sefyllfa lle maen nhw’n camddefnyddio sylweddau, mae’n rhaid i’r ymyrraeth iddyn nhw fod yn feddygol. Ac mae hynny'n golygu gweithio gyda'r heddlu—mae hynny'n wir; dyna'r hyn y mae’r strategaeth camddefnyddio sylweddau wedi ei llunio i'w wneud. Dywedodd hi ei hun ein bod ni’n aros am ffigurau Cymru, ac rydym ni eisiau gwneud yn siŵr bod y ffigurau Cymru hynny yn dangos ein bod ni’n gweld effaith gadarnhaol ar gamddefnyddio sylweddau. Ond mae'r her bob amser yno: sut ydych chi'n ymdrin â chyffuriau newydd sy'n ymddangos, drwy'r amser, wedi eu syntheseiddio'n wreiddiol o gyffuriau nad oeddent yn bodoli ym 1971? Mae hi'n iawn i sôn am heroin—yn iawn i sôn am heroin. Ond mae'n bwysig iawn ein bod ni'n gweithio gyda'r comisiynwyr heddlu a throseddu, fel yr ydym yn ei wneud, a'n bod ni’n datblygu ac yn rhoi’r amser i’n strategaeth camddefnyddio sylweddau ddatblygu, ac yn y modd hwnnw, rwy'n credu y byddwn ni'n helpu mwy a mwy o bobl i roi’r gorau i gymryd y sylweddau y maen nhw’n dod yn gaeth iddynt.
Arweinydd yr wrthblaid, Andrew R.T. Davies.
The leader of the opposition, Andrew R.T. Davies.
Thank you, Presiding Officer. First Minister, there are pressures across the United Kingdom when it comes to the health service. In June 2015, your Government took in to special measures the north Wales health board, Betsi Cadwaladr, and, in March this year, you said that actually where deficits run out of control and problems exist in other health boards across Wales, you might well have to consider intervening in those health boards. What we’ve learnt in recent months is that the deficit has doubled in the north Wales health board, waiting times have gone up by 79 per cent—from 4,858 to 8,700—and the deficit is projected at the end of this year to be £100 million cumulatively over the three years: £50 million for this one financial year, and the previous two were £25 million. How can people have confidence that your Government is putting Betsi on the road to recovery and, importantly, that the concerns that are raised by the Member from Aberconwy are being addressed, when the statistics show that, on waiting times, on recruitment and deficit control and reduction you are missing all your own targets?
Diolch, Llywydd. Prif Weinidog, mae pwysau ar draws y Deyrnas Unedig pan ddaw i’r gwasanaeth iechyd. Ym mis Mehefin 2015, gwnaeth eich Llywodraeth fwrdd iechyd Gogledd Cymru, Betsi Cadwaladr, yn destun mesurau arbennig, ac ym mis Mawrth eleni, dywedasoch, mewn gwirionedd, lle mae diffygion yn mynd allan o reolaeth a phroblemau yn bodoli mewn byrddau iechyd eraill ledled Cymru, efallai’n wir y bydd yn rhaid i chi ystyried ymyrryd yn y byrddau iechyd hynny. Yr hyn yr ydym ni wedi ei ddysgu yn ystod y misoedd diwethaf yw bod y diffyg wedi dyblu ym mwrdd iechyd gogledd Cymru, bod amseroedd aros wedi cynyddu 79 y cant—o 4,858 i 8,700—a rhagwelir y bydd y diffyg ar ddiwedd y flwyddyn hon yn £100 miliwn yn gronnus dros y tair blynedd: £50 miliwn ar gyfer yr un flwyddyn ariannol hon, ac roedd y ddwy flaenorol yn £25 miliwn. Sut all pobl fod yn ffyddiog bod eich Llywodraeth yn rhoi Betsi ar y trywydd i wella ac, yn bwysig, bod y pryderon a godir gan yr Aelod o Aberconwy yn cael sylw, pan fo'r ystadegau'n dangos, o ran amseroedd aros, o ran recriwtio a rheoli a lleihau diffygion eich bod chi’n methu eich holl dargedau eich hun?
Well, this is simply wrong. First of all, to clarify his suggestion that there will be £100 million deficit, we do not expect any of the health boards to come in with a deficit by the end of this financial year, and that is a message that we make very plain to them.
Wel, mae hyn yn anghywir, yn syml. Yn gyntaf oll, i egluro ei awgrym y bydd diffyg o £100 miliwn, nid ydym yn disgwyl i unrhyw un o'r byrddau iechyd ddangos diffyg erbyn diwedd y flwyddyn ariannol hon, ac mae honno'n neges yr ydym ni’n ei gwneud yn eglur iddyn nhw.
Well, First Minister, with the greatest respect, in their own board papers, which I presume you have sight of and, obviously, help put together because it’s under your control, this health board, they are projecting a deficit in this financial year of £50 million. It’s not my calculation; it’s their calculation, and they say that unless there are mitigating measures and actions implemented to bring that deficit down, that deficit will exist. Here in Cardiff, you are saying that isn’t the case. Your own managers and directors in north Wales who are responsible for the day-to-day delivery of service are saying that there is this deficit. You can’t have the two working there. Perhaps it’s a cause for concern that you’re so disconnected from what is actually happening on the ground. I ask you again, First Minister, with waiting times going through the roof, with the deficit not in control and, above all, the inability to recruit and retain staff, either at GP level or within the hospitals, how, after nearly three years under your direct supervision and control, can the residents of north Wales have confidence that their health board is on the road to recovery?
Wel, Prif Weinidog, gyda'r parch mwyaf, yn eu papurau bwrdd eu hunain, yr wyf yn tybio eich bod chi wedi eu gweld ac, yn amlwg, wedi helpu i’w llunio, gan ei fod o dan eich rheolaeth chi, y bwrdd iechyd hwn, maen nhw'n rhagweld diffyg yn y flwyddyn ariannol hon o £50 miliwn. Nid fy nghyfrifiad i yw e; eu cyfrifiad nhw, ac maen nhw’n dweud, oni bai bod mesurau a chamau lliniaru yn cael eu cyflwyno i ostwng y diffyg hwnnw, y bydd y diffyg hwnnw'n bodoli. Yma yng Nghaerdydd, rydych chi’n dweud nad yw hynny’n wir. Mae eich rheolwyr a'ch cyfarwyddwyr eich hun yn y gogledd sy'n gyfrifol am ddarpariaeth gwasanaethau o ddydd i ddydd yn dweud bod y diffyg hwn yn bodoli. Ni allwch chi gael y ddau’n gweithio yno. Efallai ei bod yn destun pryder eich bod chi wedi eich datgysylltu cymaint o'r hyn sy'n digwydd ar lawr gwlad. Gofynnaf i chi eto, Prif Weinidog, gydag amseroedd aros yn mynd drwy'r to, gyda diffyg nad yw dan reolaeth ac, yn anad dim, yr anallu i recriwtio a chadw staff, ar lefel meddygon teulu nac yn yr ysbytai, sut, ar ôl bron i dair blynedd o dan eich goruchwyliaeth a'ch rheolaeth uniongyrchol chi, all trigolion y gogledd fod yn ffyddiog bod eu bwrdd iechyd ar y llwybr i wella?
They can have every confidence. As I’ve said, we do not expect the health board to be in deficit by the end of the financial year. If they identify an issue now, they must deal with it. That is their responsibility. He talks about waiting lists going through the roof and offers no evidence for that. He also says that there are problems with recruitment and retention. I can say to him that ‘Train. Work. Live.’ has been hugely successful in filling training places, particularly in terms of nursing applications as well. And, do you know, what GPs say to us—and I’ve had this from one consultant who said this to me a month ago—‘The reason why I wanted to come to Wales was I liked the recruitment campaign’, and two other words: Jeremy Hunt.
Gallant fod yn gwbl ffyddiog. Fel y dywedais, nid ydym ni’n disgwyl i'r bwrdd iechyd ddangos diffyg erbyn diwedd y flwyddyn ariannol. Os ydyn nhw’n nodi problem nawr, mae'n rhaid iddyn nhw ymdrin â hi. Eu cyfrifoldeb nhw yw hynny. Mae'n sôn am restrau aros sy'n mynd drwy'r to ac nid yw'n cynnig unrhyw dystiolaeth o hynny. Mae hefyd yn dweud bod problemau gyda recriwtio a chadw. Gallaf ddweud wrtho fod 'Hyfforddi. Gweithio. Byw.' wedi bod yn hynod lwyddiannus o ran llenwi lleoedd hyfforddi, yn enwedig o ran ceisiadau nyrsio hefyd. A wyddoch chi beth mae meddygon teulu yn ei ddweud wrthym ni—ac rwyf i wedi cael hyn gan un meddyg ymgynghorol a ddywedodd hyn wrthyf fis yn ôl—'Y rheswm pam yr oeddwn i eisiau dod i Gymru oedd oherwydd fy mod i’n hoffi'r ymgyrch recriwtio', a dau air arall: Jeremy Hunt.
Why are waiting times that much better in the UK as opposed to what’s happening here in Wales?
Pam mae amseroedd aros gymaint yn well yn y DU o’u cymharu â’r hyn sy'n digwydd yma yng Nghymru?
Are they?
Ydyn nhw?
I used figures to—. Well, you say they’re not, First Minister. A&E—the 12-hour wait in England—there are 78 people waiting out of a population of 55 million people 12 hours or more in A&E. In Wales, the figure was 2,438 out of a population of 3 million. They’re not my figures; they’re your figures. What I’m just trying to seek from you, First Minister, is some ability to have confidence. I used the waiting times that your Government published last week that said that waiting times had doubled from 4,858 to 8,708. I used the deficit figures that the health board themselves have published in their board report. I’ve used the example that the health board say themselves that this deficit will exist at the end of the financial year unless mitigating actions are taken. So, everything I have quoted to you has come either from the health board or are statistics that have come from your own Government. I merely seek assurances from you, First Minister, after nearly two-and-a-half years of your Government being in direct control of the north Wales health board, that the health board is progressing to a situation where waiting times will come down, doctor vacancies will be filled and, above all, the deficit will come under control. On two occasions you have failed to give any assurances to date. I think that tells you more about your grip on reality than it does about anything else.
Defnyddiais ffigurau i—. Wel, rydych chi’n dweud nad ydyn nhw, Prif Weinidog. Damweiniau ac achosion brys—yr arhosiad 12 awr yn Lloegr—mae 78 o bobl yn aros o bobl 12 awr neu fwy mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys o boblogaeth o 55 miliwn. Yng Nghymru, 2,438 o boblogaeth o 3 miliwn oedd y ffigur. Nid fy ffigurau i ydyn nhw; eich ffigurau chi ydyn nhw. Yr hyn yr wyf i’n ceisio ei gael gennych chi, Prif Weinidog, yw rhywfaint o allu i fod yn ffyddiog. Defnyddiais yr amseroedd aros a gyhoeddwyd gan eich Llywodraeth yr wythnos diwethaf a oedd yn dweud bod amseroedd aros wedi dyblu o 4,858 i 8,708. Defnyddiais y ffigurau diffyg y mae'r bwrdd iechyd ei hun wedi eu cyhoeddi yn ei adroddiad bwrdd. Rwyf wedi defnyddio'r enghraifft bod y bwrdd iechyd ei hun yn dweud y bydd y diffyg hwn yn bodoli ar ddiwedd y flwyddyn ariannol oni bai fod camau lliniaru’n cael eu cymryd. Felly, mae popeth yr wyf i wedi ei ddyfynnu i chi wedi dod gan y bwrdd iechyd neu’n ystadegau sydd wedi dod gan eich Llywodraeth eich hun. Y cwbl yr wyf i’n ofyn amdano yw sicrwydd gennych chi, Prif Weinidog, ar ôl bron i ddwy flynedd a hanner o'ch Llywodraeth yn bod mewn rheolaeth uniongyrchol o fwrdd iechyd gogledd Cymru, bod y bwrdd iechyd hwnnw’n symud ymlaen i sefyllfa lle bydd amseroedd aros yn lleihau, y bydd swyddi meddygon gwag yn cael eu llenwi ac, yn anad dim, y bydd y diffyg yn dod o dan reolaeth. Ar ddau achlysur, rydych chi wedi methu â rhoi unrhyw sicrwydd hyd yn hyn. Rwy'n credu bod hynny'n dweud mwy wrthych chi am eich gafael ar realiti nag y mae'n ei ddweud am unrhyw beth arall.
Well, all I can say to him is there’s been a complete abdication of responsibility towards the NHS in England. Every time a health board underperforms it’s never the fault of Jeremy Hunt, is it? Never the fault of the Conservative Government or Jeremy Hunt. Let me give him a figure that is correct so that he can mull over it: in England, the total waiting list is now the highest on record—the highest on record. That’s Tory stewardship of the NHS. There were 409,342 patients over the English target—that’s more than doubled over the last three years. More than doubled over the last three years. We know, in Wales, we’ve gone in the other direction. And he sits there and acquiesces a bung to Northern Ireland of £1.67 billion—some of it on health—and he did nothing to represent his country. [Interruption.] He did nothing to represent his country. What representations did he make to the UK Government and his colleagues to demand that Wales should get a Barnett equivalent of that money? Nothing; he’s too scared of them.
Wel, y cwbl y gallaf i ei ddweud wrtho yw bod ymwrthodiad llwyr o gyfrifoldeb am y GIG yn Lloegr. Bob tro mae bwrdd iechyd yn tanberfformio, nid bai Jeremy Hunt yw hynny, nage? Byth yn fai ar y Llywodraeth Geidwadol na Jeremy Hunt. Gadewch i mi roi ffigur iddo sy'n gywir er mwyn iddo allu ei bendroni: yn Lloegr, y rhestr aros gyffredinol yw’r fwyaf erioed erbyn hyn—y fwyaf erioed. Dyna stiwardiaeth y Torïaid o’r GIG. Roedd 409,342 o gleifion dros darged Lloegr—mae hynny wedi mwy na dyblu dros y tair blynedd diwethaf. Mwy na dyblu dros y tair blynedd diwethaf. Gwyddom, yng Nghymru, ein bod ni wedi mynd i'r cyfeiriad arall. Ac mae'n eistedd yn y fan yna ac yn cyd-fynd â chil-dwrn o £1.67 biliwn i Ogledd Iwerddon—rhywfaint ohono ar iechyd—ac ni wnaeth ddim i gynrychioli ei wlad. [Torri ar draws.] Ni wnaeth ddim i gynrychioli ei wlad. Pa sylwadau wnaeth ef i Lywodraeth y DU a'i gydweithwyr i fynnu y dylai Cymru gael swm Barnett cyfatebol i'r arian hwnnw? Dim o gwbl; mae arno ormod o’u hofn.
Arweinydd grŵp UKIP, Neil Hamilton.
Leader of the UKIP group, Neil Hamilton.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd. Returning to the theme mentioned by the leader of Plaid Cymru earlier on today—the Public Health (Minimum Price for Alcohol) (Wales) Bill—how can the First Minister possibly support a measure that is so regressive in the way it works? This is a measure that is explicitly designed, disproportionately, to target those drinks that are consumed in disproportionate measures by people on low incomes. It’s well known that low-income households buy fewer units of alcohol overall, but more of what they buy is priced at less than 40p per unit. Where’s the equity in a measure that leaves the champagne socialists of the posher suburbs of Cardiff unaffected, but target-bombs the beer drinkers of Blaenau Gwent?
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd. Gan ddychwelyd at y thema y cyfeiriwyd ati gan arweinydd Plaid Cymru yn gynharach heddiw—Bil Iechyd y Cyhoedd (Isafbris am Alcohol) (Cymru)—sut ar y ddaear all y Prif Weinidog gefnogi mesur sydd mor atchweliadol yn y modd y mae'n gweithio? Mae hwn yn fesur sydd wedi ei lunio'n benodol, yn anghymesur, i dargedu'r diodydd hynny sy'n cael eu hyfed mewn mesurau anghymesur gan bobl ar incwm isel. Mae'n hysbys iawn bod aelwydydd incwm isel yn prynu llai o unedau o alcohol ar y cyfan, ond mae mwy o’r hyn y maen nhw’n ei brynu wedi ei brisio ar lai na 40c yr uned. Ble mae'r tegwch mewn mesur sy'n gadael sosialwyr siampaen maestrefi mwy llewyrchus Caerdydd heb eu heffeithio, ond yn targedu yfwyr cwrw Blaenau Gwent?
Is he seriously saying that people on low incomes are proportionately bigger drinkers? That’s snobbery of an extent that I’ve never quite seen before, I have to say. And the consequence of his argument is that, in that case, we should reduce the tax on tobacco, because that’s disproportionately regressive as well, so let’s reduce the tax on tobacco as well. It’s exactly the same argument. What we want to do is make sure that alcohol does not get cheaper and cheaper, as it has done, so that people drink more and more, because they see it as cheap.
As I said earlier on, there’s also an issue here for the pubs. Pubs are being hammered year after year after year after year by cheap supermarket alcohol, and pubs are responsible places where people drink—they look after and don’t serve people who are drunk—and pubs are being lost at a rate of knots in our communities. You speak to any publican and they will say to you that part of the reason is that people are buying cheap supermarket alcohol, sold at below-cost price, quite often. Now, those people deserve fairness as well. So, yes, of course there’s a health aspect to this, but also, of course, as a side issue, we know that one of the consequences is that it will provide a far better level playing field for pubs as well.
A yw o ddifrif yn dweud bod pobl ar incwm isel yn yfed mwy yn ôl eu cyfran? Mae hynny'n snobyddiaeth o raddau nad wyf i erioed wedi ei weld o'r blaen, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud. A chanlyniad ei ddadl, yn yr achos hwnnw, yw y dylem ni leihau'r dreth ar dybaco, gan fod honno’n atchweliadol yn anghymesur hefyd, felly gadewch i ni leihau'r dreth ar dybaco hefyd. Mae'n union yr un ddadl. Yr hyn yr ydym ni eisiau ei wneud yw sicrhau nad yw alcohol yn dod yn rhatach ac yn rhatach, fel y mae wedi dod, fel bod pobl yn yfed mwy a mwy, gan eu bod yn ei ystyried yn rhad.
Fel y dywedais yn gynharach, ceir problem i’r tafarndai yma hefyd. Mae tafarndai yn cael eu hergydio flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn gan alcohol rhad o archfarchnadoedd, ac mae tafarndai’n fannau cyfrifol lle mae pobl yn yfed—maen nhw'n gofalu am bobl sy’n feddw ac yn gwrthod gwerthu iddynt—ac mae tafarndai'n cael eu colli yn eithriadol o gyflym yn ein cymunedau. Siaradwch ag unrhyw dafarnwr a bydd yn dweud wrthych mai rhan o'r rheswm yw bod pobl yn prynu alcohol rhad o archfarchnadoedd, sy’n cael ei werthu am bris is-gost, yn aml iawn. Nawr, mae'r bobl hynny yn haeddu tegwch hefyd. Felly, oes, wrth gwrs, mae agwedd iechyd i hyn, ond hefyd, wrth gwrs, fel mater cysylltiedig, gwyddom mai un o'r canlyniadau yw y bydd yn cynnig sefyllfa llawer mwy teg i dafarndai hefyd.
I didn’t say that people on low incomes buy more alcohol; I said the opposite actually—that people on low incomes buy less alcohol overall than people on higher incomes, but more of the alcohol that they do drink is cheaper brands, not more expensive brands, so it’s going to have a disproportionately tough effect upon people on low incomes.
The Centre for Economics and Business Research said in 2009 that there’s substantial evidence, overall, that heavier drinkers are least responsive to price changes. So, the problem alcohol drinkers are the ones who’re least likely to respond to the measures that are now being proposed. What’s going to happen here is that the real problem drinkers will carry on drinking, and perhaps they’ll have less money to spend on things like food. So, in other dietary respects, their health is going to suffer. This will have no positive impact whatsoever. The only people who are really going to benefit from this are the supermarkets, because this is not a tax that is being imposed—it will just raise the price of a cheap product, and that will produce extra profits for the supermarkets. It certainly won’t produce extra profits for pubs.
Ni ddywedais fod pobl ar incwm isel yn prynu mwy o alcohol; dywedais y gwrthwyneb a dweud y gwir—bod pobl ar incwm isel yn prynu llai o alcohol yn gyffredinol na phobl ar incwm uwch, ond mae mwy o'r alcohol y maen nhw’n ei yfed yn frandiau rhatach, nid brandiau drytach, felly bydd yn cael effaith anghymesur o galed ar bobl ar incwm isel.
Dywedodd y Ganolfan Ymchwil Economeg a Busnes yn 2009 fod tystiolaeth sylweddol, yn gyffredinol, mai yfwyr trymach sydd leiaf ymatebol i newidiadau i brisiau. Felly, yr yfwyr alcohol sy’n peri problemau yw’r rhai sydd leiaf tebygol o ymateb i'r mesurau sy’n cael eu cynnig nawr. Yr hyn sy'n mynd i ddigwydd yma yw y bydd yr yfwyr sy’n peri problemau gwirioneddol yn parhau i yfed, ac efallai y bydd ganddyn nhw lai o arian i'w wario ar bethau fel bwyd. Felly, o safbwyntiau deietegol eraill, mae eu hiechyd yn mynd i ddioddef. Ni fydd hyn yn cael unrhyw effaith gadarnhaol o gwbl. Yr unig bobl sydd wir yn mynd i fanteisio ar hyn yw'r archfarchnadoedd, oherwydd nid treth sy'n cael ei chodi yw hon—bydd yn codi pris cynnyrch rhad, a bydd hynny'n cynhyrchu elw ychwanegol i'r archfarchnadoedd. Yn sicr ni fydd yn cynhyrchu elw ychwanegol i dafarndai.
Well, again, the same argument could be used for cigarettes. If he’s saying that the tax on cigarettes should be reduced because it’s regressive, let’s hear him say that. As far as alcohol is concerned, we know that alcohol has got proportionately cheaper, we know that it has encouraged people to drink more—there’s no question about that; if it’s cheaper it will do that. This is a way of ensuring that the balance is right between the price of alcohol and people’s health. I see nothing wrong with that, and it’s hugely important that we have a responsible attitude to alcohol, rather than one that says, ‘Buy one, get one free’, ‘Buy two, get one free’—and they’re not always on the cheapest brands; they’re quite often on brands that are proportionately quite expensive. That’s the way that people are encouraged to buy more and drink more. Surely, that’s not something that we want to encourage.
Wel, eto, gellid defnyddio'r un ddadl ar gyfer sigaréts. Os yw'n dweud y dylai'r dreth ar sigaréts gael ei gostwng gan ei bod yn atchweliadol, gadewch i ni ei glywed yn dweud hynny. O ran alcohol, rydym ni’n gwybod bod alcohol wedi dod yn rhatach yn gymesur, rydym ni’n gwybod ei fod wedi annog pobl i yfed mwy—nid oes unrhyw amheuaeth am hynny; os yw'n rhatach bydd yn gwneud hynny. Mae hon yn ffordd o sicrhau bod y cydbwysedd yn iawn rhwng pris alcohol ac iechyd pobl. Nid wyf yn gweld dim o'i le ar hynny, ac mae'n hynod bwysig bod gennym ni agwedd gyfrifol at alcohol, yn hytrach nag un sy'n dweud, 'Prynu un, cael un am ddim', 'Prynu dau, cael un am ddim'—ac nid yw hynny ar y brandiau rhataf bob amser; mae’n aml iawn ar frandiau sy'n eithaf drud yn gymesur. Dyna'r ffordd y mae pobl yn cael eu hannog i brynu mwy ac yfed mwy. Does bosib bod hynny’n rhywbeth yr ydym ni eisiau ei annog.
There is a problem with a relatively small number of people who overindulge. And, of course, we do want to target those. The problem with a measure of this kind is that it’s so scattergun in its approach that it actually penalises the many who are moderate drinkers whilst not actually having any measurable effect upon those whom we do want to help.
Ceir problem gyda nifer gymharol fach o bobl sy'n goryfed. Ac, wrth gwrs, rydym ni eisiau targedu'r rheini. Y broblem gyda mesur o'r math hwn yw ei fod gymaint ar hap o ran ei ddull ei fod mewn gwirionedd yn cosbi’r llawer sy'n yfwyr cymedrol heb gael unrhyw effaith fesuradwy ar y rheini yr ydym ni eisiau eu helpu mewn gwirionedd.
I don’t follow that logic. The same logic applies to cigarettes. He could stand up and he could say, ‘Well, it penalises the occasional smoker, and so the duty on tobacco should be reduced.’ The two things have the same kind of effect. Look, for me, it’s hugely important that, as a society, we don’t have alcohol being sold below cost price—and it happens in some of the offers we see in supermarkets—and we don’t have people being encouraged to buy more alcohol than they otherwise would want to buy. That encourages people who would otherwise be quite moderate drinkers to drink more than is good for them, and that is something that we’re keen to avoid.
As it happens, as a side effect, it also enables pubs to be able to compete on a level playing field with the supermarkets that have driven so many pubs out of business. Don’t talk to me, talk to publicans and they will tell you this. The difference in price, proportionally, between supermarket alcohol now and alcohol in pubs is far, far greater than ever it was before. We need to make sure that people have a place to go in villages where they live, through pubs, for example. This is not what the intention of the legislation is—the intention is that it’s legislation that deals with health. But there are, of course, wider effects that are identified.
Nid wyf yn deall y rhesymeg honno. Mae'r un rhesymeg yn berthnasol i sigaréts. Gallai sefyll ar ei draed a gallai ddweud, 'Wel, mae'n cosbi'r ysmygwr achlysurol, ac felly dylid gostwng y dreth ar dybaco.' Mae’r ddau beth yn cael yr un math o effaith. Edrychwch, i mi, mae'n hynod bwysig, fel cymdeithas, nad oes gennym ni alcohol yn cael ei werthu islaw'r pris cost—ac mae'n digwydd yn rhai o'r cynigion a welwn mewn archfarchnadoedd—ac nad oes gennym ni bobl yn cael eu hannog i brynu mwy o alcohol nag y byddent eisiau ei brynu fel arall. Mae hynny'n annog pobl a fyddai fel arall yn yfwyr eithaf cymedrol i yfed mwy na sy'n dda iddynt, ac mae hynny'n rhywbeth yr ydym ni’n awyddus i'w osgoi.
Fel mae'n digwydd, fel sgîl-effaith, mae hefyd yn galluogi tafarndai i allu cystadlu ar sail deg gyda'r archfarchnadoedd sydd wedi gyrru cymaint o dafarndai allan o fusnes. Peidiwch â siarad â mi, siaradwch â thafarnwyr a byddant yn dweud hyn wrthych chi. Mae'r gwahaniaeth mewn pris, yn gymesur, rhwng alcohol archfarchnadoedd nawr ac alcohol mewn tafarndai yn llawer iawn mwy nag a fu erioed o'r blaen. Mae angen i ni sicrhau bod gan bobl le i fynd yn y pentrefi lle maen nhw’n byw, trwy dafarndai, er enghraifft. Nid dyma fwriad y ddeddfwriaeth—y bwriad yw ei bod yn ddeddfwriaeth sy'n ymdrin ag iechyd. Ond, wrth gwrs, ceir effeithiau ehangach a nodir.
4. Sut y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn defnyddio prosesau caffael cyhoeddus i gynyddu lefelau cynhyrchu'r diwydiant garddwriaeth yng Nghymru? (OAQ51250)
4. How is the Welsh Government using public procurement to drive up horticulture production in Wales? (OAQ51250)
The National Procurement Service develops collaborative approaches that aim to grow the amount of Welsh produce supplied to the public sector.
Mae'r Gwasanaeth Caffael Cenedlaethol yn datblygu dulliau cydweithredol sydd â’r nod o gynyddu faint o gynnyrch o Gymru a gyflenwir i'r sector cyhoeddus.
Thank you. I’ve just come from the vegetable summit being held in the Pierhead at the same time as in London and Edinburgh, and we heard really important pledges from a wide variety of producers and promoters of, for example, children’s rights. The children’s commissioner highlighted the fact that nearly 80 per cent of children aged five to 10 are not eating enough vegetables, and 95 per cent of 11 to 16-year-olds are not eating enough vegetables to be able to learn and play effectively, and that this is a children’s rights issue. We heard important pledges from the largest supermarket in the UK, Tesco, who have agreed to buy seasonable veg from UK growers, as well as putting more vegetables in their meal deals. Castell Howell, Brains, Cardiff University, Cardiff Metropolitan University, Cardiff and Vale University Local Health Board, Cardiff council all pledging to serve and promote more vegetables in their pubs, canteens and dining rooms. What can we do to ensure that that increased purchase of vegetables comes from Welsh producers, rather than from other UK outlets or, indeed, from abroad?
Diolch. Rwyf newydd ddod o'r uwchgynhadledd lysiau sy’n cael ei chynnal yn y Pierhead ar yr un pryd ag yn Llundain a Chaeredin, a chlywsom addewidion pwysig iawn gan amrywiaeth eang o gynhyrchwyr a hyrwyddwyr, er enghraifft, hawliau plant. Tynnodd y comisiynydd plant sylw at y ffaith nad yw bron i 80 y cant o blant pump i 10 oed yn bwyta digon o lysiau, ac nad yw 95 y cant o blant 11 i 16 mlwydd oed yn bwyta digon o lysiau i allu dysgu a chwarae'n effeithiol, a bod hwn yn fater hawliau plant. Clywsom addewidion pwysig gan archfarchnad fwyaf y DU, Tesco, sydd wedi cytuno i brynu llysiau tymhorol gan dyfwyr yn y DU, yn ogystal â chynnwys mwy o lysiau yn eu bargeinion pryd bwyd. Mae Castell Howell, Brains, Prifysgol Caerdydd, Prifysgol Fetropolitan Caerdydd, Bwrdd Iechyd Lleol Prifysgol Caerdydd a'r Fro a chyngor Caerdydd i gyd yn addo gweini a hyrwyddo mwy o lysiau yn eu tafarndai, eu ffreuturiau a’u hystafelloedd bwyta. Beth allwn ni ei wneud i sicrhau bod y pryniant cynyddol hwnnw o lysiau yn dod oddi wrth gynhyrchwyr Cymru, yn hytrach na marchnadoedd eraill y DU neu, yn wir, o dramor?
Can I welcome the fact that the vegetable summit is taking place at the Pierhead building as we speak? It brings together farmers, retailers, processors and Government, looking at the supply chain and how we can raise vegetable production. We are committed, through the food and drink action plan, which we share with our publicly appointed industry board, to not only grow the Welsh food and drinks sector, but to do so sustainably and to tackle the deep-rooted challenges of diet. The National Procurement Service has set up buying arrangements that allow Welsh public bodies to access a wide range of vegetable products to support healthier meal planning.
A gaf i groesawu'r ffaith bod yr uwchgynhadledd lysiau yn cael ei chynnal yn adeilad Pierhead ar hyn o bryd? Mae'n dod â ffermwyr, manwerthwyr, proseswyr a Llywodraeth at ei gilydd, gan edrych ar y gadwyn gyflenwi a sut y gallwn gynyddu cynhyrchiant llysiau. Rydym ni wedi ymrwymo, drwy'r cynllun gweithredu ar fwyd a diod, yr ydym ni’n ei rannu gyda'n bwrdd diwydiant a benodwyd yn gyhoeddus, nid yn unig i dyfu sector bwyd a diod Cymru, ond i wneud hynny’n gynaliadwy ac i fynd i'r afael â heriau dwys deiet. Mae'r Gwasanaeth Caffael Cenedlaethol wedi sefydlu trefniadau prynu sy'n galluogi cyrff cyhoeddus Cymru i gael mynediad at amrywiaeth eang o gynhyrchion llysiau i gefnogi cynllunio prydau bwyd iachach.
Yn dilyn cwestiwn Jenny Rathbone, a allwch chi ddweud wrthym ni pa drafodaethau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi eu cael gydag awdurdodau lleol ynglŷn â chaffael bwyd i gyrff cyhoeddus er mwyn sicrhau bod mwy a mwy o gynhyrchwyr bwyd lleol yn cael eu defnyddio gan awdurdodau lleol? Hefyd, a allwch chi ddweud wrthym ni un peth mae eich Llywodraeth chi wedi ei wneud yn y flwyddyn ddiwethaf i wneud gwahaniaeth a sicrhau bod mwy a mwy o gynhyrchwyr bwyd lleol yn cael eu defnyddio yn y sector gyhoeddus?
Following on from Jenny Rathbone’s question, can you tell us what discussions the Welsh Government has had with local authorities on food procurement in the public sector to ensure that more local producers are used by local authorities? Also, can you tell us one thing that your Government has done over the past 12 months to make a difference and to ensure that more and more local producers are being used in the public sector?
Mae yna grŵp cydweithredol wedi cael ei sefydlu, ac mae’n cynnwys rhai o’r sector gyhoeddus yng Nghymru. Nod y grŵp hwnnw yw sicrhau ein bod ni’n gweithredu ar sicrhau bod yna fargen dda ynglŷn â chaffael. Mae hwnnw’n gweithio gyda chyrff cyhoeddus a hefyd gyda’r rheini sydd yn cynhyrchu er mwyn symud y project hwn ymlaen. So, felly, mae yna bethau’n cael eu gwneud wrth weithio gyda’r diwydiant er mwyn sicrhau bod mwy o fwyd a diod yn dod i mewn o Gymru. Un o’r pethau, wrth gwrs, sydd wedi newid dros y blynyddau yw, ar un adeg, un o’r problemau, gyda chytundebau mawr fel y gwasanaeth iechyd, oedd nad oedd dim corff neu fusnes digon mawr i sicrhau bod nwyddau yn mynd i mewn i’r farchnad honno ddydd ar ôl dydd, fis ar ôl mis. Mae hynny wedi newid nawr, ac mae hynny, wrth gwrs, o achos y gwaith rŷm ni wedi ei wneud fel Llywodraeth ynglŷn â chefnogi edrych ar hyn mewn ffordd wahanol ac nid yn yr un hen ffordd.
Well, a co-operative group has been established, and that includes some from the public sector in Wales, and the aim of that group is to ensure that we get a good deal on procurement. That is in collaboration with local bodies and the producers in order to progress this project. So, things are being done in working with the industry to ensure that more Welsh-produced food and drink is used in Wales. One of the problems, of course, which has changed over the years is that, at one time, one of the problems with the big contracts, such as those with the health service, was that there wasn’t a business or an organisation large enough to ensure that they could get into that market and that there was that sustainability of supply, day after day, month after month. But things have improved now, and that is, of course, as a result of the work that we’ve done as a Government in supporting the work to look at this in a different way.
Rydw i’n gweld, Brif Weinidog, fod eirin Dinbych yn mynd i fod yn cael eu gweini fel pwding yfory yn y Cynulliad. Felly, mae croeso i bawb gyfrannu drwy fwyta’r eirin hyfryd hynny. Ond wrth inni ymadael â’r polisi amaeth cyffredin, sydd erioed wedi rhoi unrhyw gefnogaeth i arddwriaeth yng Nghymru, pa gamau ydych chi’n mynd i’w cymryd fel Llywodraeth i sicrhau bod yna gefnogaeth i adeiladu’r seilwaith ar gyfer gwneud yn siŵr bod ffermwyr nawr yn gallu buddsoddi mewn garddwriaeth ac ar gyfer y marchnadoedd newydd?
I see, First Minister, that Denbigh plums are to be served as a dessert tomorrow, so everyone is welcome to contribute by eating those wonderful plums. But as we leave the common agricultural policy, which has never given any support to horticulture in Wales, what steps will you take as a Government to ensure that there is support to develop the infrastructure to ensure that farmers can now invest in horticulture for these new markets?
Nawr, mae hyn yn rhywbeth, wrth gwrs, rŷm ni’n ei ystyried gyda’r diwydiant ar hyn o bryd. Y peth cyntaf rydw i’n moyn ei bwysleisio, wrth gwrs, yw’r ffaith ein bod ni’n wastad wedi dweud y dylai’r un faint o arian fod ar gael yn y dyfodol â beth sydd nawr. Beth rŷm ni wedi dweud wrth Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig yw y dylai’r arian gael ei ddodi mewn un lle ac nad oes unrhyw beth i’w newid ynglŷn â’r cyfanswm hynny heb fod yna gytundeb rhwng y Llywodraethau i gyd. Ond, wedi dweud hynny, mae yna gyfle inni nawr ystyried ym mha ffordd y gallwn ni ddefnyddio’r arian hynny er lles ffermwyr Cymru—edrych ar ffyrdd newydd, efallai, o weithio—ac mae hynny’n un peth y gallwn ni ei ystyried.
Rydw i’n cofio, 17 o flynyddoedd yn ôl, pan oeddwn i’n aelod o bwyllgor amaeth y Cynulliad, roedd yna adolygiad wedi cael ei wneud bryd hynny ar arallgyfeirio, a’r peth a ddaeth reit lan ar y top ynglŷn â beth oedd â’r cryfder mwyaf yn y pen draw oedd tyfu llysiau organig. Felly, mae hyn yn rhywbeth sydd wedi bod rownd ers amser, ond, wrth gwrs, nid oedd y system talu ‘subsidies’ yn ddigon hyblyg er mwyn sicrhau ein bod ni’n gallu defnyddio’r arian yn y ffordd y byddem ni eisiau. Mae yna gyfle nawr, wrth gwrs, yn y dyfodol, i sicrhau bod hyn yn digwydd.
Well, this is something that is under consideration with the industry at the moment. The first thing I’d like to emphasise is that the same amount of money should be available in future as is currently available. What we’ve told the UK Government is that the funding should be ring-fenced and that nothing should affect that without an agreement between all the Governments. Having said that, there is now an opportunity to consider in which way we can use that funding for the benefit of Welsh farmers—to look at alternate ways of working, perhaps—and that is one thing that we can consider.
I remember, 17 years ago, when I was a member of the Assembly’s agriculture committee, a review was undertaken at that time on diversification, and what came right at the top of the list, as regards the greatest strength in the sector ultimately was the cultivation of organic vegetables. So, this is something that has been around for some time, but, of course, the subsidy payment scheme wasn’t flexible enough in order to ensure that we could use that funding in the way in which we would wish to use it. There is an opportunity, in the future, to ensure that that happens.
5. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am batrymau hunangyflogaeth yng Nghymru? (OAQ51252)[R]
5. Will the First Minister make a statement on patterns of self-employment in Wales? (OAQ51252)[R]
Self-employment remains a cornerstone of the Welsh economy and is central to the national strategy. We continue to support businesses to start and grow, to invest and, of course, to improve their contribution to the economy of Wales.
Mae hunangyflogaeth yn parhau i fod yn gonglfaen economi Cymru ac mae'n ganolog i'r strategaeth genedlaethol. Rydym ni’n parhau i gefnogi busnesau i gychwyn a thyfu, i fuddsoddi ac, wrth gwrs, i wella eu cyfraniad at economi Cymru.
This afternoon, I chaired the cross-party group on small and medium-sized enterprises, and it was our pleasure to welcome the Federation of Small Businesses to launch their report, ‘Going Solo: Understanding Self-employment in Wales’, written by Professor Andrew Henley and Dr Mark Lang. There are a number of recommendations for Government there, but one of the stark issues in the report is that the largest levels of self-employment are in Powys, at 23 per cent, and the lowest levels are in the northern Valleys that I represent, and others, at 8.7 per cent. What specifically can the Welsh Government do to incentivise and increase self-employment in those Valleys communities, and particularly among under-represented groups and women?
Y prynhawn yma, cadeiriais y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar fentrau bach a chanolig, ac roedd yn bleser gennym groesawu'r Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach i lansio ei adroddiad, 'Mynd ar eich Pen eich Hun: Deall Hunangyflogaeth yng Nghymru', a ysgrifennwyd gan yr Athro Andrew Henley a Dr Mark Lang. Ceir nifer o argymhellion i Lywodraeth ynddo, ond un o'r materion pwysicaf yn yr adroddiad yw bod y lefelau uchaf o hunangyflogaeth ym Mhowys, sef 23 y cant, a bod y lefelau isaf yn y Cymoedd gogleddol yr wyf i’n eu cynrychioli, ac eraill, sef 8.7 y cant. Beth all Llywodraeth Cymru ei wneud yn benodol i ysgogi a chynyddu hunangyflogaeth yn y cymunedau hynny yn y Cymoedd, ac yn enwedig ymhlith grwpiau heb gynrychiolaeth ddigonol a menywod?
What’s interesting about the report is that there’s been an assumption that the reason why more people are self-employed is because economic circumstances have dictated that—they lost their jobs. But, in fact, it seems to indicate that it’s an entrepreneurial pull. It’s actually a desire to be more entrepreneurial, which is something we have sought to encourage for many, many years in Wales. As somebody who was self-employed, mainly, before I came to this place, I understand some of the challenges that that can cause.
How do we take it forward in the Valleys? The Valleys taskforce. That’s done a lot of work to see how we can encourage more self-employment. I don’t believe that people lack entrepreneurial flair in the Valleys; I think it’s encouragement. It’s being able to say to people, ‘You can do this. There’s no reason why you can’t be successful.’ And people need that encouragement. And that’s exactly one of the things that the Valleys taskforce is looking to move forward with in the future.
Yr hyn sy'n ddiddorol am yr adroddiad yw y bu tybiaeth mai’r rheswm pam mae mwy o bobl yn hunangyflogedig yw oherwydd bod amgylchiadau economaidd wedi pennu hynny— eu bod nhw wedi colli eu swyddi. Ond, mewn gwirionedd, ymddengys ei fod yn dyniad entrepreneuraidd. Mae'n awydd mewn gwirionedd i fod yn fwy entrepreneuraidd, sy'n rhywbeth yr ydym ni wedi ceisio ei annog ers llawer iawn o flynyddoedd yng Nghymru. Fel rhywun a oedd yn hunangyflogedig, yn bennaf, cyn i mi ddod i'r lle hwn, rwy’n deall rhai o'r heriau y gall hynny eu hachosi.
Sut ydym ni’n bwrw ymlaen â hyn yn y Cymoedd? Tasglu’r Cymoedd. Mae hwnnw wedi gwneud llawer o waith i weld sut y gallwn annog mwy o hunangyflogaeth. Nid wyf yn credu bod gan bobl ddiffyg dawn entrepreneuraidd yn y Cymoedd; rwy'n credu ei fod yn fater o anogaeth. Mae'n golygu gallu dweud wrth bobl, 'Gallwch chi wneud hyn. Nid oes unrhyw reswm pam na allwch chi fod yn llwyddiannus.’ Ac mae angen yr anogaeth honno ar bobl. A dyna'n union un o'r pethau y mae tasglu'r Cymoedd yn bwriadu bwrw ymlaen ag ef yn y dyfodol.
First Minister, I also attended the event, which Hefin chaired earlier on, and we heard how rural Wales is heavily reliant on the contribution of self-employment to the economy. Hefin’s pointed out that 23 per cent of those in Powys are self-employed, and that compares to the Welsh average of 13 per cent. Now, the FSB Wales report has found that those who are self-employed tend to be older, and young people are not following in their footsteps. Can I ask what consideration has the Welsh Government given to understanding the barriers to young people becoming self-employed, in rural Wales in particular? What potential could a mid Wales growth deal play to ensure that there are local solutions that meet the demands of self-employment in Wales, as opposed to a pan-Wales solution, which might not always be appropriate?
Prif Weinidog, roeddwn innau hefyd yn bresennol yn y digwyddiad, a gadeiriwyd gan Hefin yn gynharach, a chlywsom sut mae Cymru wledig yn ddibynnol iawn ar gyfraniad hunangyflogaeth i’r economi. Nododd Hefin fod 23 y cant o'r rhai sydd ym Mhowys yn hunangyflogedig, ac mae hynny’n cymharu â chyfartaledd Cymru o 13 y cant. Nawr, mae adroddiad FSB Cymru wedi canfod bod y rheini sy'n hunangyflogedig yn tueddu i fod yn hŷn, ac nad yw pobl ifanc yn dilyn olion eu traed. A gaf i ofyn pa ystyriaeth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ei rhoi i ddeall y rhwystrau sy’n atal pobl ifanc rhag bod yn hunangyflogedig, yng Nghymru wledig yn arbennig? Pa botensial allai bargen dwf canolbarth Cymru ei gynnig i sicrhau bod atebion lleol sy'n bodloni gofynion hunangyflogaeth yng Nghymru, yn hytrach nag ateb Cymru gyfan, efallai na fyddai’n briodol bob amser?
I think regional solutions are important. The Member is right to say that it can’t be one-size-fits-all across Wales. When it comes to younger people, much of it starts in schools, to my mind. I know that work has been done in schools with encouraging entrepreneurial projects, and, of course, the young entrepreneurs scheme, which we have, and also, of course, providing that kind of financial support to youngsters that they need. Older people often have access to capital in a way that younger people don’t, and they can use that capital to set up in business. How do we support people that come into business? Business Wales is one area where that’s done, of course. The development bank will be able to assist people to come into business as well. Improving small and medium-sized enterprises’ ability to access finance—that’s the biggie. We know that the banks in the UK have historically been resistant to providing capital for start-up enterprises, which is why we fell behind for many, many years, which is one of the reasons why the development bank will be there. You can encourage people, but they need to access capital to start up their business. Unless they’ve got family capital behind them, there’s got to be another way of doing it, and that is where Business Wales and where the Development Bank of Wales comes in.
Rwy'n credu bod atebion rhanbarthol yn bwysig. Mae'r Aelod yn iawn i ddweud na ellir cael un ateb i bawb ledled Cymru. Pan ddaw i bobl iau, mae llawer ohono'n dechrau mewn ysgolion, yn fy marn i. Gwn fod gwaith wedi ei wneud mewn ysgolion o ran annog prosiectau entrepreneuraidd, ac wrth gwrs, y cynllun entrepreneuriaid ifanc, sydd gennym ni, a hefyd wrth gwrs, darparu'r math hwnnw o gymorth ariannol i bobl ifanc sydd ei angen arnynt. Mae gan bobl hŷn fynediad yn aml at gyfalaf mewn modd nad oes gan bobl iau, a gallant ddefnyddio'r cyfalaf hwnnw i sefydlu busnes. Sut ydym ni'n cefnogi pobl sy'n dod i mewn i fusnes? Mae Busnes Cymru yn un maes lle mae hynny'n digwydd, wrth gwrs. Bydd y banc datblygu yn gallu cynorthwyo pobl i ddod i mewn i fusnes hefyd. Gwella gallu mentrau bach a chanolig i gael mynediad at gyllid—dyna'r peth mwyaf. Gwyddom fod y banciau yn y DU wedi bod yn amharod yn hanesyddol i ddarparu cyfalaf ar gyfer mentrau sy’n cychwyn, a dyna pam yr oeddem ni ar ei hôl hi am flynyddoedd lawer iawn, sef un o'r rhesymau pam y bydd y banc datblygu yno. Gallwch chi annog pobl, ond mae angen mynediad at gyfalaf arnyn nhw i ddechrau eu busnes. Oni bai bod ganddynt gyfalaf teuluol y tu ôl iddyn nhw, mae'n rhaid bod ffordd arall o’i wneud, a dyna lle mae Busnes Cymru a lle mae Banc Datblygu Cymru yn dod i mewn.
Un o’r pethau mwyaf trawiadol sydd yn yr adroddiad yw’r ffaith yma: fod 38 y cant o gyfanswm twf swyddi yng Nghymru dros y ddeng mlynedd diwethaf i’w briodoli i’r hunangyflogedig. Dros yr un cyfnod, nid oes cynnydd net o gwbl wedi bod yn y sector tramor—hynny yw, y sector mewnfuddsoddi. Ac eto, ac rwy’n dyfynnu’r adroddiad fan hyn:
‘mae iaith llunio polisïau economaidd wedi’i sgiwio’n anferth tuag at bwysigrwydd sicrhau mewnfuddsoddiad â pherchnogaeth dramor.’
A ydy’r Prif Weinidog yn derbyn ffigurau’r FSB, ac os yw e, a ydy e’n derbyn yr angen am newid pwyslais nawr i fusnesau cynhenid a’r hunangyflogedig?
One of the most striking things in the report is this fact: namely, that 38 per cent of the total jobs growth in Wales over the past 10 years can be attributed to the self-employed. Over the same period, there’s been no net increase in the inward investment sector. And again, and I quote from the report:
‘the language of economic policy-making is massively skewed toward the importance of securing foreign-owned inward investment.’
Does the First Minister accept the figures provided by the FSB, and if so, does he accept the need to change emphasis now to indigenous businesses and the self-employed?
Nid wyf yn credu bod yn rhaid inni ddewis. Rwy’n cytuno. Ar un adeg, rwy’n gwybod, yn ystod cyfnod y WDA, roedd y pwyslais yn hollol ar fuddsoddiad o dramor—yn hollol. Nid oedd ots gyda nhw am fusnesau bach. Rwy’n cofio siarad â rhai o’r bobl a oedd yn gweithio i’r WDA. Bryd hynny, roedd popeth, yr holl ffocws, ar sicrhau buddsoddiad, ac ar ôl LG, daeth dim byd mawr i mewn beth bynnag. So, mae’n hollbwysig sicrhau ein bod ni’n adeiladu sylfaen hunangyflogedig yr economi. Rwy’n deall hynny. Ond, nid wyf yn credu y dylem ni wneud hynny drwy osgoi unrhyw fath o help i fusnesau sydd yn cyflogi miloedd o bobl yng Nghymru, sef Tata, sef GE, sef Airbus, sef cwmnïau fel EADS ac yn y blaen, sydd yn cyflogi llawer iawn o bobl yng Nghymru. Felly, mae’n rhaid inni ddal i bwysleisio denu buddsoddiad o dramor. Ond, nid yw hynny’n meddwl mai dim ond hynny y dylem ei wneud. Byddwn i’n dadlau bod y cydbwysedd yn iawn gyda ni, ac rydym yn moyn sicrhau bod mwy a mwy o fusnesau nid dim ond yn cael eu sefydlu yng Nghymru, ond yn tyfu. Un o’r problemau yr ydym wastad wedi’u hwynebu yw’r ffaith bod busnesau’n tyfu i lefel, ac wedyn mae’r perchnogion yn eu gwerthu. Wel, mae’n rhaid inni sicrhau bod mwy yn cael ei wneud er mwyn sicrhau bod pobl yn teimlo eu bod yn gallu tyfu’r busnesau hynny er mwyn eu bod yn gallu mynd yn fwy. I mi, dyna beth yw’r her fwyaf yn yr economi: dweud wrth bobl, ‘Peidiwch â gwerthu mas. Sefwch i mewn. Fe wnawn ni eich helpu chi i dyfu yn fwy.’
I don’t think that we need to choose. I agree. At one time, in the days of the WDA, the emphasis was completely was on inward investment. They didn’t care, really, about small businesses. I remember talking to employees of the WDA. At that time, the focus was on securing inward investment, and after LG, nothing else big came in anyway. So, it is extremely important that we build a foundation of self-employment in the economy. I understand that. But, I don’t think that we can do that by avoiding giving any support to businesses that employ thousands of people in Wales, such as Tata, GE, Airbus, EADS, and so on, who employ thousands of people in Wales. So, we must maintain an emphasis on attracting foreign investment. But, it shouldn’t be solely our strategy, and I would argue that we have now struck the right balance, and we want to ensure that more and more businesses aren’t only established in Wales, but grow in Wales. One of the problems we’ve always faced is that businesses grow up to a particular level and then the owners sell them. So, we must ensure that more is done to ensure that people feel that they can grow those businesses so that they become larger. That, to me, is the greatest challenge in the economy: telling people, ‘Don’t sell out; stay and we’ll assist you to grow.’
6. Sut y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn cefnogi'r sector gofal lliniarol yng Nghymru? (OAQ51226)
6. How is the Welsh Government supporting the palliative care sector in Wales? (OAQ51226)
The updated end-of-life care delivery plan, published in March, sets out the extensive range of actions we are taking to deliver a collaborative approach to improving end-of-life care throughout Wales. That includes £6.4 million to provide specialist palliative care services.
Mae'r cynllun cyflenwi gofal diwedd oes wedi’i ddiweddaru, a gyhoeddwyd ym mis Mawrth, yn nodi'r amrywiaeth eang o gamau yr ydym ni’n eu cymryd i ddarparu dull cydweithredol o wella gofal diwedd oes ledled Cymru. Mae hynny'n cynnwys £6.4 miliwn i ddarparu gwasanaethau gofal lliniarol arbenigol.
Thanks for your answer. As you are probably aware, the majority of end-of-life care in Wales is provided by Wales’s 13 adult and two children’s hospices. You indicate a figure of roughly £6.4 million—that’s what I think you said—but they spend £32.5 million a year to deliver those services in people’s homes, and also day care and respite. So, they are having to raise over £2 million a month, and they’re keen to help you, the Welsh Government, and their local health boards do very much more. How can you, or will you, engage with them and ask them how they can help you achieve more? Perhaps a little bit more funding from the health boards and the Government would save massively more for health boards and liberate services to help tackle some of the other problems we’ve heard referred to today in different contexts.
Diolch am eich ateb. Fel y gwyddoch yn ôl pob tebyg, darperir y rhan fwyaf o’r gofal diwedd oes yng Nghymru mewn 13 hosbis i oedolion a dwy hosbis i blant yng Nghymru. Rydych chi’n nodi ffigur o tua £6.4 miliwn—dyna a ddywedasoch rwy’n meddwl—ond maen nhw’n gwario £32.5 miliwn y flwyddyn i ddarparu'r gwasanaethau hynny yng nghartrefi pobl, a gofal dydd a gofal seibiant hefyd. Felly, maen nhw’n gorfod codi dros £2 filiwn y mis, ac maen nhw’n awyddus i'ch helpu chi, Llywodraeth Cymru, a'u byrddau iechyd lleol i wneud llawer iawn mwy. Sut gallwch chi, neu a wnewch chi, ymgysylltu â nhw a gofyn iddyn nhw sut y gallan nhw eich helpu i gyflawni mwy? Efallai y byddai ychydig mwy o gyllid gan y byrddau iechyd a'r Llywodraeth yn arbed llawer mwy i fyrddau iechyd ac yn rhyddhau gwasanaethau i helpu i fynd i'r afael â rhai o'r problemau eraill yr ydym ni wedi clywed cyfeirio atyn nhw heddiw mewn gwahanol gyd-destunau.
Well, if we look at the recent report by Hospice UK into hospice care in Wales, that is something that we welcome—what the report said. It recognises the positive steps outlined in the palliative and end-of-life care delivery plan. It does highlight the need for assurances about long-term funding. As part of the budget agreement with Plaid Cymru, we did make £1 million extra available in 2017 to further enhance end-of-life care provision. That is recurrent funding as well. But, of course, in terms of engagement with the sector, it is the care boards that provide that level of engagement, and that’s why, of course, we work with them in order to identify the resources that are needed.
Wel, os edrychwn ni ar yr adroddiad diweddar gan Hospice UK ar ofal hosbis yng Nghymru, mae hynny'n rhywbeth yr ydym ni’n ei groesawu—yr hyn a ddywedodd yr adroddiad. Mae'n cydnabod y camau cadarnhaol a amlinellir yn y cynllun cyflenwi gofal lliniarol a diwedd oes. Mae'n tynnu sylw at yr angen am sicrwydd am gyllid hirdymor. Yn rhan o'r cytundeb cyllideb gyda Phlaid Cymru, rhoddwyd £1 filiwn ychwanegol ar gael gennym yn 2017 i wella darpariaeth gofal diwedd oes ymhellach. Mae hwnnw'n gyllid ailadroddus hefyd. Ond wrth gwrs, o ran ymgysylltu â'r sector, y byrddau gofal sy'n darparu'r lefel honno o ymgysylltiad, a dyna pam, wrth gwrs, yr ydym ni’n gweithio gyda nhw i nodi'r adnoddau sydd eu hangen.
Mae’r grŵp trawsbleidiol ar hosbisau a gofal lliniarol yma yn y Cynulliad yn edrych ar y posibiliad o ymchwilio i sut i fynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldebau yn y mynediad at ofal hosbis yng Nghymru. Mi gyfeirioch chi at yr arian a sicrhawyd mewn cytundeb rhyngom ni a’r Llywodraeth. Ond, onid y gwir amdani ydy bod cyfres o Lywodraethau Llafur wedi methu â mynd i’r afael â’r elfen sylfaenol yna, fod yna anghydraddoldeb yn y mynediad at y gofal cwbl, cwbl allweddol yma ar draws Cymru?
The cross-party group on hospices and palliative care here in the Assembly is looking at the possibility of holding an inquiry into how to deal with inequalities in terms of access to hospice care in Wales. You referred to the funding secured in agreement between us and the Government. But, isn’t the truth of the matter that a series of Labour Governments has failed to tackle that fundamental element, that there is inequality in terms of access to this crucial care across Wales?
Na, nid wyf i’n derbyn hynny. Rydym ni wedi sicrhau bod yna fuddsoddiad ar gael i fyrddau iechyd. Mae’n fater, wrth gwrs, i fyrddau iechyd sicrhau bod yna wasanaeth ar gael, ac mae hynny’n rhywbeth rŷm ni wedi gweithio gyda nhw arno, ynglŷn â sicrhau bod hwnnw’n cael ei weithredu. Rŷm ni’n gwybod bod hosbisau eu hunain wedi cymryd mwy o rôl yn y pum mlynedd diwethaf nag o’r blaen, nid dim ond o ran gofal, ond rhoi cyngor i bobl hefyd. Ac nawr, wrth gwrs, rŷm ni’n moyn gweithio gyda’r byrddau er mwyn sicrhau ein bod ni’n gwybod beth nesaf sy’n gorfod cael ei wneud er mwyn sicrhau bod yna wasanaeth cyson ar gael ar draws Cymru.
No, I don’t accept that. We have ensured that there is investment available to the health boards. It’s a matter for them, of course, to ensure that the service is available. It’s something that we worked with them on to ensure that that is implemented. We know that the hospices themselves have taken a greater role over the past five years than previously, not just on the care side, but in giving people advice as well. And now, of course, we wish to work with the boards to ensure that we know what next needs to be done, in order to ensure that there is a uniform service available throughout Wales.
7. Pa asesiad y mae'r Prif Weinidog wedi'i wneud o'r effaith y bydd unrhyw newidiadau i reolaethau mewnfudo yn dilyn Brexit yn ei chael ar y GIG yng Nghymru? (OAQ51229)
7. What assessment has the First Minister made of the impact that any changes to immigration controls following Brexit will have on the NHS in Wales? (OAQ51229)
Yes, it’s bad.
Ie, mae'n wael.
Well, I thank the First Minister for his observation, but the latest figures show that immigrant workers from the EU amount to just 1.55 per cent of employees in NHS Wales, and, given that the Welsh population of immigrants from the EU amounts to 3.3 per cent, it would seem that controls on immigration may well have a positive effect on our health service.
But, I have previously brought to the attention of this Chamber the fact that each year, 80,000 applicants to work in the UK NHS are turned down due to a lack of training places. Surely, First Minister, it is time that we in Wales expanded training facilities, reconsidered the practice of sending every nurse to university, and explored the possibility of reintroducing the distinction between SEN and SRN nurses and on-the-ward training, particularly for SEN staff. Incidentally, Mark Drakeford said in 2015 that,
‘Discussions about the long-term future of the Welsh NHS should sit outside the knockabout of day-to-day party politics.’
Perhaps, First Minister, we should once again examine that excellent suggestion.
Wel, diolchaf i'r Prif Weinidog am ei sylw, ond mae'r ffigurau diweddaraf yn dangos mai dim ond 1.55 y cant o gyflogeion GIG Cymru sy’n weithwyr mewnfudol o'r UE, ac, o ystyried mai 3.3 y cant yw poblogaeth mewnfudwyr Cymru o'r UE, mae'n ymddangos y gallai rheoli mewnfudiad gael effaith gadarnhaol ar ein gwasanaeth iechyd.
Ond, rwyf eisoes wedi tynnu sylw'r Siambr hon at y ffaith fod 80,000 o ymgeiswyr i weithio yn GIG y DU bob blwyddyn yn cael eu gwrthod oherwydd diffyg lleoedd hyfforddi. Does bosib, Prif Weinidog, nad yw’n bryd i ni yng Nghymru ehangu cyfleusterau hyfforddi, ailystyried yr arfer o anfon pob nyrs i'r brifysgol, ac archwilio'r posibilrwydd o ailgyflwyno'r gwahaniaeth rhwng nyrsys SEN ac SRN a hyfforddiant ar y ward, yn enwedig i staff SEN. Gyda llaw, dywedodd Mark Drakeford yn 2015,
Dylai trafodaethau am ddyfodol hirdymor GIG Cymru fod y tu allan i ymryson gwleidyddiaeth bleidiol o ddydd i ddydd.
Efallai, Prif Weinidog, y dylem ni ystyried yr awgrym ardderchog hwnnw unwaith eto.
Could I say to the Member that I could not care less where doctors come from when they work in the Welsh NHS, as long as they deliver an excellent service to our patients? There are many doctors who come from the EU, and beyond—India, of course; we know that many doctors have come from India. Frankly, they are great additions to our NHS. The market for doctors and for nurses is worldwide. It’s worldwide. People will go—it’s a portable qualification—to where they think they will get the best deal for them as an individual and for their families.
We know, for example, it’s true to say that EU nurses make up a fairly small percentage of the NHS workforce in Wales, but can we really afford to lose 360 nurses? Is that what he’s saying? Because what he seems to be saying is that that’s fine, as long as we train people to a lower standard in the future, and that will be fine as far as the future is concerned. Is he really saying, for example, that we don’t want doctors from the EU? Well, I have to say that I want to make sure that doctors and nurses come to work in Wales, regardless of their nationality, because they will add a lot more to the NHS than they take out. The myth that is peddled by his party is that, somehow, immigration puts a strain on the NHS. Most of the people who come to Wales are young. They pay taxes, and they pay far more in than they take out via the NHS. And we know that we pay tribute to those doctors from the EU and beyond who come to work in the Welsh NHS, who contribute to treating our people, who save lives. For me, that’s far more important than checking their passports.
A gaf i ddweud wrth yr Aelod nad oes unrhyw ots o gwbl gen i o ble mae meddygon yn dod pan eu bod yn gweithio yn GIG Cymru, cyhyd â'u bod yn darparu gwasanaeth rhagorol i'n cleifion? Ceir llawer o feddygon sy'n dod o'r UE, a thu hwnt—India, wrth gwrs; gwyddom fod llawer o feddygon wedi dod o India. Yn wir, maen nhw yn ychwanegiadau gwych at ein GIG. Mae'r farchnad ar gyfer meddygon a nyrsys yn fyd-eang. Mae'n fyd-eang. Bydd pobl yn mynd—mae'n gymhwyster symudol—i ble maen nhw'n meddwl y byddan nhw’n cael y fargen orau iddyn nhw fel unigolyn ac i’w teuluoedd.
Gwyddom, er enghraifft, ei bod yn wir i ddweud bod nyrsys o’r UE yn ganran eithaf bach o weithlu'r GIG yng Nghymru, ond a allwn ni wir fforddio colli 360 o nyrsys? Ai dyna’r hyn y mae'n ei ddweud? Oherwydd mae’n ymddangos mai’r hyn y mae’n ei ddweud yw bod hynny’n iawn, cyn belled â'n bod ni’n hyfforddi pobl i safon is yn y dyfodol, a bydd hynny'n iawn cyn belled ag y mae’r dyfodol yn y cwestiwn. A yw ef wir yn dweud, er enghraifft, nad ydym ni eisiau meddygon o'r UE? Wel, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud fy mod i eisiau sicrhau bod meddygon a nyrsys yn dod i weithio yng Nghymru, waeth beth yw eu cenedligrwydd, oherwydd byddant yn ychwanegu llawer mwy at y GIG nag y maen nhw'n ei gymryd allan. Yr anwiredd sy’n cael ei wthio gan ei blaid yw bod mewnfudo, rywsut, yn rhoi straen ar y GIG. Mae'r rhan fwyaf o'r bobl sy'n dod i Gymru yn ifanc. Maen nhw’n talu trethi, ac maen nhw’n talu llawer mwy nac y maen nhw’n ei gymryd allan drwy'r GIG. Ac rydym ni’n gwybod ein bod ni’n talu teyrnged i'r meddygon hynny o'r UE a thu hwnt sy'n dod i weithio yn GIG Cymru, sy'n cyfrannu at drin ein pobl, sy'n achub bywydau. I mi, mae hynny'n llawer pwysicach na gwirio eu pasbortau.
The external affairs committee recently reported on the implication of Brexit for Welsh ports, of course, and there is criticism there that the economy Secretary hadn’t at that stage had direct conversations with his counterpart in Ireland, but I think that that may have happened now. Do you know whether there were any discussions about whether existing technology could be rolled out to help maintain the invisible border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, but also to reduce the delays in the transit of people between Wales and the Republic of Ireland itself?
Adroddodd y pwyllgor materion allanol yn ddiweddar ar oblygiadau Brexit i borthladdoedd Cymru, wrth gwrs, a cheir beirniadaeth yn y fan honno nad oedd Ysgrifennydd yr economi wedi cael sgyrsiau uniongyrchol bryd hynny gyda'i gyfatebwr yn Iwerddon, ond rwy’n credu efallai fod hynny wedi digwydd erbyn hyn. A ydych chi'n gwybod a oedd unrhyw drafodaethau ynghylch pa un a ellid cyflwyno technoleg bresennol i helpu i gynnal y ffin anweledig rhwng Gogledd Iwerddon a'r Weriniaeth, ond hefyd i leihau'r oedi o ran symud pobl rhwng Cymru a Gweriniaeth Iwerddon ei hun?
Well, firstly, the reason why the committee mentioned it is that I mentioned it to the committee. I was the one who first raised it, this issue of the ports. I discussed it months ago with Leo Varadkar, when he became Taoiseach, and made it clear that we could not support a scenario where there was a more seamless border between Northern Ireland and the Republic than between Wales and the Republic while 70 per cent of trade between GB and Ireland goes through Welsh ports. If there is any incentive to go through the Scottish ports instead, through Northern Ireland, obviously it’s bad and the committee identified that—it’s bad for Wales. So, there have been discussions with the Irish Government on this.
Frankly—I know the Member’s views on Brexit, and I appreciate them—I have now seen many documents from the UK Government that say that the issue of border control will be taken forward by way of innovative technology. It doesn’t exist. This technology doesn’t exist. If it existed we’d have sight of it by now. It talks about having innovative solutions, exploring solutions. That is code for, ‘We have no idea how to deal with this.’
It’s one thing, of course, to have passport-free travel between Wales and Ireland. Customs-free travel is a different thing. There were always random checks in those ports in years gone by, but not every vehicle was checked. There’s a greater problem in Dover, because the UK doesn’t have the capacity at the moment to put in place border controls in Dover without enormous delays, and the same, I suspect, applies on the French side as well, if I’m honest, in Calais.
I do not believe that there is a technological solution to this. If there was one, then by now we’d know from the UK Government what that solution is. One of the solutions that was put to me was that there would be cameras on the border between north and south in Ireland. You put cameras in Northern Ireland and we could open a book as to how long they’d stay there, because they would not. They just wouldn’t stay there. It’s a physical manifestation of the border. People would see them as a breach of the peace agreement.
So it’s an intractable problem. It can be resolved. The resolution is that the UK stays in the customs union. Then there’s no problem. There’s no problem. The UK leaves the customs union and you have to have the same kind of border as exists, for example, between Gibraltar and Spain, because Gibraltar is outside the customs union. That is an extremely hard border. You cannot have a scenario where goods go to two different markets in two different customs unions without any kind of physical checks on crossing a land border. This has always been the problem, to my mind. In the Brexit referendum, nobody thought about Ireland and nobody thought about that border, and it’s still an intractable problem. The solution? Stay in the customs union.
Wel, yn gyntaf, y rheswm pam y soniodd y pwyllgor amdano yw fy mod i wedi sôn amdano wrth y pwyllgor. Fi oedd yr un â’i gododd yn gyntaf, y mater hwn o'r porthladdoedd. Fe'i trafodais fisoedd yn ôl gyda Leo Varadkar, pan ddaeth yn Taoiseach, a’i gwneud yn eglur na allem ni gefnogi sefyllfa lle’r oedd ffin fwy di-dor rhwng Gogledd Iwerddon a'r Weriniaeth na rhwng Cymru a'r Weriniaeth tra bod 70 y cant o fasnach rhwng Prydain Fawr ac Iwerddon yn mynd trwy borthladdoedd Cymru. Os oes unrhyw gymhelliad i fynd trwy borthladdoedd yr Alban yn hytrach, trwy Ogledd Iwerddon, mae'n amlwg ei fod yn wael a nodwyd hynny gan y pwyllgor—mae’n wael i Gymru. Felly, bu trafodaethau gyda Llywodraeth Iwerddon ar hyn.
I fod yn blaen—rwy'n gwybod barn yr Aelod ar Brexit, ac rwy'n eu gwerthfawrogi—rwyf i wedi gweld llawer o ddogfennau gan Lywodraeth y DU erbyn hyn sy'n dweud y bydd y mater o reoli ffiniau yn cael ei ddatblygu trwy dechnoleg arloesol. Nid yw'n bodoli. Nid yw'r dechnoleg hon yn bodoli. Pe byddai’n bodoli, byddem ni wedi ei gweld erbyn hyn. Mae'n sôn am gael atebion arloesol, archwilio atebion. Dyna'r cod ar gyfer, 'Nid oes gennym ni unrhyw syniad sut i ymdrin â hyn.'
Mae’n un peth, wrth gwrs, cael teithio di-basbort rhwng Cymru ac Iwerddon. Mae teithio di-doll yn rhywbeth gwahanol. Roedd archwiliadau ar hap yn y porthladdoedd hynny bob amser yn y blynyddoedd a fu, ond nid oedd pob cerbyd yn cael ei archwilio. Ceir problem fwy yn Dover, gan nad oes gan y DU y gallu ar hyn o bryd i gyflwyno rheolaethau ffin yn Dover heb oedi enfawr, ac mae’r un fath, rwy’n amau, yn wir ar ochr Ffrainc hefyd, os ydw i'n onest, yn Calais.
Nid wyf yn credu bod ateb technolegol i hyn. Pe byddai un, yna byddem ni’n gwybod erbyn hyn gan Lywodraeth y DU beth yw'r ateb hwnnw. Un o'r atebion a gynigiwyd i mi oedd y byddai camerâu ar y ffin rhwng y gogledd a'r de yn Iwerddon. Os rhowch chi gamerâu yng Ngogledd Iwerddon gallem ni agor llyfr ar ba mor hir y bydden nhw’n aros yno, gan na fyddent. Ni fydden nhw’n aros yno. Mae'n amlygiad ffisegol o'r ffin. Byddai pobl yn eu gweld fel diffyg cydymffurfiad â’r cytundeb heddwch.
Felly mae'n broblem anhydrin. Gellir ei datrys. Yr ateb yw bod y DU yn aros yn yr undeb tollau. Yna nid oes unrhyw broblem. Nid oes unrhyw broblem. Os bydd y DU yn gadael yr undeb tollau, bydd yn rhaid i chi gael yr un math o ffin â hwnnw sy'n bodoli, er enghraifft, rhwng Gibraltar a Sbaen, gan fod Gibraltar y tu allan i'r undeb tollau. Mae honno'n ffin hynod o galed. Ni allwch chi gael sefyllfa lle mae nwyddau'n mynd i ddwy wahanol farchnad mewn dau wahanol undeb tollau heb unrhyw fath o archwiliadau ffisegol wrth groesi ffiniau tir. Mae hyn wedi bod yn broblem erioed, yn fy marn i. Ni feddyliodd neb am Iwerddon yn refferendwm Brexit, ac ni feddyliodd neb am y ffin honno, ac mae'n dal i fod yn broblem anhydrin. Yr ateb? Aros yn yr undeb tollau.
Of course, one of the greatest threats to staffing long term in the Welsh NHS would be for us to have a one-size-fits-all UK immigration policy after separation with the European Union. The University of Edinburgh have published a paper by Professor Christina Boswell, ‘Scottish Immigration Policy After Brexit: Evaluating Options for a Differentiated Approach’. It looks at a number of regional and national approaches to migration post Brexit, knowing the intentions of the UK Government in terms of their aspirations. The options include looking at human capital, a points-based system, post-study work schemes, employer-led schemes, occupational shortage lists, which I would suggest are of particular importance here in Wales, and in this paper they are proposing imaginative ways in order to have minimal administration costs and burdens. Would the First Minister agree that this is now worth exploring and taking forward seriously, and that we need Wales to have its say on a regional or national post-Brexit migration policy for the UK? Because at the moment, this is the only constituent part of the UK that has said very little about that prospect. Otherwise, we face having the UK net migration target being the big policy objective of the UK, which, as we know, will be detrimental to Welsh public services and the Welsh economy.
Wrth gwrs, un o'r bygythiadau mwyaf i staffio hirdymor yn GIG Cymru fyddai i ni gael un polisi mewnfudo ar gyfer y DU gyfan ar ôl gwahanu oddi wrth yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Mae Prifysgol Caeredin wedi cyhoeddi papur gan yr Athro Christina Boswell, ‘Scottish Immigration Policy After Brexit: Evaluating Options for a Differentiated Approach'. Mae'n ystyried nifer o ddulliau rhanbarthol a chenedlaethol o ymdrin ag ymfudiad ar ôl Brexit, gan wybod beth yw bwriadau Llywodraeth y DU o ran eu dyheadau. Mae'r dewisiadau'n cynnwys edrych ar gyfalaf dynol, system seiliedig ar bwyntiau, cynlluniau gwaith ôl-astudio, cynlluniau dan arweiniad cyflogwyr, rhestrau prinder galwedigaethol, y byddwn yn awgrymu eu bod o bwysigrwydd arbennig yma yng Nghymru, ac yn y papur hwn maen nhw’n cynnig ffyrdd llawn dychymyg o gael costau a beichiau gweinyddol cyn lleied â phosibl. A fyddai’r Prif Weinidog yn cytuno bod hyn yn werth ei ystyried a’i ddatblygu o ddifrif erbyn hyn, a bod angen i ni weld Cymru’n lleisio ei barn ar bolisi ymfudo rhanbarthol neu genedlaethol ar ôl Brexit ar gyfer y DU? Oherwydd ar hyn o bryd , dyma'r unig ran gyfansoddol o'r DU sydd wedi dweud ychydig iawn am y posibilrwydd hwnnw. Fel arall, rydym ni’n wynebu cael targed mudo net y DU fel amcan polisi mawr y DU, a fydd, fel y gwyddom, yn niweidiol i wasanaethau cyhoeddus Cymru ac i economi Cymru.
Let me just remind him what I have said publicly to set his fears at rest. First of all, I don’t agree with an artificial cap. I don’t see what sense that has. Surely an economy needs to recruit according to its needs, not have an artificial cap. If there were to be an artificial cap, then there are serious issues that arise as to whether there’d be sectoral caps. I have no doubt that the thinking in the UK Government will be to do as much as possible for the City of London—and the financial services sector’s important to us, but it’s hugely important to the City of London—and we will end up with a higher sectoral cap proportionally for the City than we do for the NHS. Clearly, that would not be in Wales’s interests.
He didn’t say it specifically, but I know he is intimating the idea of regional quotas, and that’s an interesting idea. It is done in Canada, it is done in Australia. All right, they’re far bigger, but it’s not impossible to do this. Personally, I prefer there not to be a cap, but if there is to be a cap, I think then there is a case for looking carefully at whether regional quotas would work, and particularly at whether they’d work for Wales.
Gadewch i mi ei atgoffa o'r hyn yr wyf i wedi ei ddweud yn gyhoeddus i dawelu ei ofnau. Yn gyntaf oll, nid wyf yn cytuno â chap artiffisial. Nid wyf yn gweld pa synnwyr sydd i hynny. Does bosib nad oes rhaid i economi recriwtio yn ôl ei hanghenion, nid cael cap artiffisial. Pe byddai cap artiffisial, yna mae problemau difrifol sy'n codi o ran pa un a fyddai capiau sectorol. Nid oes gen i unrhyw amheuaeth mai’r syniad yn Llywodraeth y DU fydd gwneud cymaint â phosibl i Ddinas Llundain—ac mae'r sector gwasanaethau ariannol yn bwysig i ni, ond mae'n aruthrol o bwysig i Ddinas Llundain—a bydd gennym gap sectorol uwch yn y pen draw, yn gymesur i'r Ddinas nag sydd gennym ar gyfer y GIG. Yn amlwg, ni fyddai hynny er lles Cymru.
Ni ddywedodd hyn yn benodol, ond gwn ei fod yn awgrymu'r syniad o gwotâu rhanbarthol, ac mae hwnnw'n syniad diddorol. Mae’n cael ei wneud yng Nghanada, mae’n cael ei wneud yn Awstralia. Iawn, maen nhw'n llawer mwy, ond nid yw'n amhosibl gwneud hyn. Yn bersonol, byddai’n well gen i beidio â chael cap, ond os oes cap, rwy’n credu fod dadl dros edrych yn ofalus ar ba un a fyddai cwotâu rhanbarthol yn gweithio, ac yn enwedig pa un a fyddent yn gweithio i Gymru.
8. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am strategaeth leoli Llywodraeth Cymru? (OAQ51234)[W]
8. Will the First Minister make a statement on the Welsh Government's location strategy? (OAQ51234)[W]
Bydd y strategaeth leoli yn creu ystâd sy’n gynaliadwy yn economaidd ac yn amgylcheddol sy’n cyd-fynd ag anghenion y Llywodraeth hon yn y dyfodol. Mae’r strategaeth yn cynnal ein hymrwymiad i weithredu ledled Cymru gan sicrhau bod ein hystâd yn gweithredu mor effeithlon â phosibl ac yn lleihau ein costau gweithredu.
The location strategy will deliver an economically and environmentally sustainable estate that is aligned with this Government’s future needs. The strategy maintains our commitment to being located across Wales and ensures that we are optimising the efficiency of our estate and reducing our operating costs.
Wel, mae’n hollol amlwg nad ydy’r strategaeth rheoli swyddi yn gweithio os mai’r bwriad oedd gwasgaru swyddi Llywodraeth i bob cwr o Gymru a chadw’r rheini a oedd eisoes yn bodoli. Mae pobl yn fy etholaeth i yn teimlo ein bod yn cael ein gadael ar ôl, teimlad sy’n cael ei gefnogi efo ffeithiau.
Ffaith 1: mae’ch Llywodraeth chi yn bwriadu cau a gwerthu adeilad yng Nghaernarfon heb unrhyw fwriad i godi adeilad newydd yn ei le, gan greu ansicrwydd mawr. Ffaith 2: mae nifer y swyddi Llywodraeth sydd wedi’u lleoli yng Nghaernarfon wedi gostwng 35 y cant dros y saith mlynedd ddiwethaf.
Mae bwriad y strategaeth yn glir ond, unwaith eto, rydych chi wedi methu pan fo’n dod yn fater o weithredu’r amcanion. Felly, a wnewch chi ailystyried edrych ar y strategaeth eto er mwyn gosod meini prawf a thargedau penodol newydd er mwyn delifro twf a swyddi o ansawdd i bob cwr o Gymru?
Well, it’s entirely apparent that the jobs location strategy isn’t working if the intention was to spread Government jobs to all parts of Wales, retaining those that already existed. People in my constituency feel that we’re being left behind, a feeling that is backed up by facts.
Fact 1: your Government intends to close and sell a building in Caernarfon without any intention to erect a new building in its place, creating great uncertainty. Fact 2: the number of Government jobs that are located in Caernarfon has reduced by 35 per cent over the past seven years.
The intention of the strategy is clear, but, once again, you have failed when it comes to the matter of delivering those objectives. So, will you reconsider and look at the strategy again in order to set new criteria and specific targets in order to deliver growth and quality jobs in all parts of Wales?
A gaf i ddweud wrth yr Aelod: nid yw swyddfa Caernarfon yn gadael y dref, maen nhw’n symud o un i’r llall? Mae’n wir i ddweud eu bod nhw’n symud o’r adeilad lle maen nhw nawr, ar y top, ac wedyn yn edrych ar swyddfeydd newydd mwy modern er mwyn aros yn y dref. Felly, nid oes problem ynglŷn â swyddi’n sefyll yn Nghaernarfon.
A ydy’n wir fod swyddi wedi cael eu colli? Mae hynny’n wir ar draws Cymru. Rydym ni wedi colli mwy na 1,000 o weision sifil dros y blynyddoedd—rhyw saith mlynedd. So, mae’n wir i ddweud bod yna swyddi wedi cael eu colli ym mhob rhan o Gymru.
Wrth ddweud hynny, wrth gwrs, os edrychwn ni ar y gogledd, mae gyda ni swyddfa Cyffordd Llandudno a bydd pencadlys y banc datblygu yn Wrecsam, so, felly, rŷm ni wedi ymrwymo i sicrhau bod mwy o swyddi yn cael eu symud mas o Gaerdydd. Pan ddechreuodd y Cynlluniad, roedd swyddfa yng Nghaernarfon ond nid oedd dim byd yn Merthyr, nid oedd dim byd yn Nghyffordd Llandudno, nid oedd lot yn Abersytwyth—roedd y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth yn Aberystwyth ond nid llawer yn fwy na hynny.
Rŷm ni wedi dangos ein hymrwymiad ni i symud swyddi mas o Gaerdydd ac nid oes problem o gwbl ynglŷn â swyddfa Caernarfon. Rŷm ni’n gwybod pa mor bwysig yw Caernarfon i helpu ffermwyr a hefyd wrth gwrs ynglŷn â sicrhau cyflogaeth yn y dref.
May I say to the Member that the Caernarfon office won’t be quitting the town, it’s just moving buildings? It’s true to say that they are actually moving from the building where they are at present, on the top, and are looking at more modern office space in order to stay in the town. So, there’s no problem about jobs remaining in Caernarfon.
Is it true that some jobs have been lost? It’s true for the whole of Wales. We have lost over 1,000 civil service jobs over the years—some seven years. So, it’s true to say that jobs have been lost in every part of Wales.
Having said that, of course, if we look at north Wales, we have the Llandudno Junction office and the development bank headquarters will be in Wrexham, and so we have committed to moving jobs out of Cardiff. At the inception of the Assembly, there was an office in Caernarfon, but nothing in Merthyr, nothing in Llandudno Junction, and not very much in Aberystwyth—the Forestry Commission was there, but nothing else.
We have demonstrated our commitment to moving jobs out of Cardiff, and there’s no problem whatsoever with regard to the Caernarfon office. We know how important Caernarfon is in supporting and assisting farmers, and also securing employment in the town.
9. Pa sicrwydd y mae'r Prif Weinidog wedi'i gael gan Lywodraeth y DU yn ystod trafodaethau Brexit mewn perthynas â sicrhau hawliau dynol? (OAQ51249)
9. What guarantees has the First Minister obtained from the UK Government during Brexit discussions in relation to securing human rights? (OAQ51249)
The UK Government has said it won’t repeal or replace the Human Rights Act 1998 while the process of leaving the EU is under way. We also support efforts to amend the EU (Withdrawal) Bill—whenever it’s introduced—to ensure the UK continues to respect the EU’s Charter of Fundamental Rights after we leave the EU.
Mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi dweud na fydd yn diddymu nac yn disodli Deddf Hawliau Dynol 1998 tra bod y broses o adael yr UE ar y gweill. Rydym ni hefyd yn cefnogi ymdrechion i ddiwygio Bil yr UE (Ymadael)— pryd bynnag y caiff ei gyflwyno—i sicrhau bod y DU yn parhau i barchu Siarter Hawliau Sylfaenol yr UE ar ôl i ni adael yr UE.
When Britain does leave the EU, the Charter of Fundamental Rights will no longer have any effect in UK law. That means that those rights not covered by the human rights Act—for example, the rights of the child, workers’ rights and discrimination—could be scrapped. The great repeal Bill White Paper does promise, however, to protect existing rights.
I don’t know about you, First Minister, but I am hugely sceptical about the Conservative Party that opposed many of those rights in the first place—in terms of trusting them to defend rights post Brexit. We only have to look very quickly across at the way that they have been willing so far to gamble with EU citizens’ residency rights.
But, on another tangent, First Minister, will you reassure Welsh universities over their rights to academic freedom from Government meddling? I’m sure that you would have read today, as I have, the reports on the frankly sinister letter sent by the Tory MP Chris Heaton-Harris to all vice-chancellors asking for the names of anyone teaching European affairs or Brexit.
Pan fo Prydain yn gadael yr UE, ni fydd gan y Siarter Hawliau Sylfaenol unrhyw effaith yng nghyfraith y DU mwyach. Mae hynny'n golygu y gellid dileu'r hawliau hynny nas cwmpasir gan y Ddeddf hawliau dynol—er enghraifft, hawliau'r plentyn, hawliau gweithwyr a gwahaniaethu. Fodd bynnag, mae Papur Gwyn y Bil diddymu mawr yn addo diogelu hawliau presennol.
Nid wyf yn gwybod amdanoch chi, Prif Weinidog, ond rwy’n hynod amheus am y Blaid Geidwadol a wrthwynebodd llawer o'r hawliau hynny yn y lle cyntaf—o ran ymddiried ynddynt i amddiffyn hawliau ar ôl Brexit. Mae'n rhaid i ni edrych yn gyflym iawn ar y ffordd y maen nhw wedi bod yn barod i gamblo hyd yn hyn â hawliau preswylio dinasyddion yr UE.
Ond, ar drywydd arall, Prif Weinidog, a wnewch chi roi sicrwydd i brifysgolion Cymru ynghylch eu hawliau i ryddid academaidd rhag ymyrraeth gan y Llywodraeth? Rwy'n siŵr y byddwch chi wedi darllen heddiw, fel yr wyf innau, yr adroddiadau ar y llythyr sinistr a dweud y gwir, a anfonwyd gan yr AS Torïaidd Chris Heaton-Harris i'r holl is-gangellorion yn gofyn am enwau unrhyw un sy'n addysgu materion Ewropeaidd neu Brexit.
First of all, the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights contains rights and freedoms under six titles: dignity, freedoms, equality, solidarity, citizens’ rights, and justice. Surely, there is nobody who would argue that none of those things should apply when we leave, which is why it makes sense for that charter to remain.
There are some—not all, in fairness, but there are some—within the Conservative Party who would love to get rid of so many of the protections that have been built up over many, many years. They are the hard right of the Conservative Party and I’m sure that they would delight in removing as many rights and protections as possible. I hope the sensible people within that party actually win out.
Of not sensible, I understand that a letter was sent by an MP I’ve not heard of, Chris Heaton-Harris, who sent a letter to all academics, all academics—it’s not something I’ve heard of before—demanding to know who teaches courses on Brexit and the content of those syllabuses. The content of those syllabuses. That is as authoritarian a request as could possibly be made. Now, I don’t say that the entire Conservative party would agree with his actions, but, if that is the case, it’s incumbent on Government Ministers to slap him down, metaphorically, because it’s absolutely outrageous that somebody should look to create, in effect, a list of people who are there to be criticized because they do not follow the party line. I suspect this gentleman would have a lot to teach Stalin.
Yn gyntaf oll, mae Siarter Hawliau Sylfaenol yr UE yn cynnwys hawliau a rhyddid o dan chwe phennawd: urddas, rhyddid, cydraddoldeb, cydsefyll, hawliau dinasyddion a chyfiawnder. Does bosib bod neb a fyddai'n dadlau na ddylai unrhyw un o'r pethau hynny fod yn gymwys pan fyddwn ni’n gadael, a dyna pam mae’n gwneud synnwyr i'r siarter hwnnw barhau.
Ceir rhai—nid pawb, er tegwch, ond mae rhai—yn y Blaid Geidwadol a fyddai wrth eu boddau’n cael gwared â chymaint o'r amddiffyniadau a ddatblygwyd dros flynyddoedd lawer iawn. Nhw yw asgell dde galed y Blaid Geidwadol ac rwy'n siŵr y bydden nhw’n ymfalchïo mewn cael gwared ar gymaint o hawliau a mesurau diogelu â phosibl. Rwy'n gobeithio y bydd y bobl synhwyrol yn y blaid honno'n ennill y ddadl.
O ran peidio â bod yn synhwyrol, rwy’n deall yr anfonwyd llythyr gan AS nad wyf wedi clywed amdano, Chris Heaton-Harris, a anfonodd lythyr at bob academydd, pob academydd—nid yw'n rhywbeth yr wyf i wedi clywed amdano o’r blaen—yn mynnu cael gwybod pwy sy'n addysgu cyrsiau ar Brexit a chynnwys y meysydd llafur hynny. Cynnwys y meysydd llafur hynny. Mae hwnnw’n gais mor awdurdodaidd ag y byddai’n bosibl ei wneud. Nawr, nid wyf yn dweud y byddai'r blaid Geidwadol gyfan yn cytuno â'i ymddygiad, ond, os yw hynny'n wir, mae'n ddyletswydd ar Weinidogion y Llywodraeth i’w geryddu, gan ei bod hi’n hollol warthus y dylai rhywun geisio creu, i bob pwrpas, rhestr o bobl sydd i'w beirniadu gan nad ydynt yn dilyn barn y blaid. Rwy'n amau y byddai gan y gŵr hwn lawer i’w addysgu i Stalin.
Diolch i’r Prif Weinidog.
Thank you, First Minister.
Yr eitem nesaf, felly, yw’r datganiad a chyhoeddiad busnes, ac rydw i’n galw ar Jane Hutt, arweinydd y tŷ. Jane Hutt.
The next item is the business statement and announcement, and I call on Jane Hutt, the leader of the house. Jane Hutt.
Llywydd, I have three changes to report to this week’s business. I’ve extended this afternoon’s statement on teacher recruitment, and later this afternoon the First Minister will make an oral statement on an update on Brexit negotiations. Additionally, the Business Committee has agreed to reduce tomorrow’s questions to the Assembly Commission to 15 minutes. Business for the next three weeks is as shown on the business statement and announcement found among meeting papers available to Members electronically.
Llywydd, mae gen i dri newid i'w hadrodd i fusnes yr wythnos hon. Rwyf wedi ymestyn datganiad y prynhawn yma ar recriwtio athrawon, ac yn ddiweddarach y prynhawn yma bydd y Prif Weinidog yn gwneud datganiad llafar ar yr wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am drafodaethau Brexit. Hefyd, mae'r Pwyllgor Busnes wedi cytuno i leihau cwestiynau yfory i Gomisiwn y Cynulliad i 15 munud. Mae'r busnes ar gyfer y tair wythnos nesaf fel y’i dangosir ar y datganiad a'r cyhoeddiad busnes y gellir eu gweld ymhlith y papurau cyfarfod sydd ar gael i'r Aelodau yn electronig.
Could I seek two statements, if possible, please, leader of the house? The first is in relation to the review that the Cabinet Secretary for the economy announced of the Heads of the Valleys—it’s the stage on the eastern part of that road. There do seem to be significant ramifications both on cost and time, and businesses in my region have already commented at the dire transport situation they’re faced with, with lorries, cars, vans, stuck in horrendous traffic delays on this part of the road network. It is disappointing, given that this is the largest capital expenditure by the Welsh Government on roads, that there is no statement forthcoming from the Government as to the type, the scale, of the review and, indeed, some of the initial problems that they’ve identified. I do not believe that we’ve had the time and opportunity to question the Minister—or the Cabinet Secretary, should I say—on this review. And, as I said, this isn’t some improvement to a lay-by, this is a £220 million investment made by the Welsh Government into the final part of the eastern link of the Heads of the Valleys road, and I do believe it would have merited presence on the order paper this afternoon, but, in the absence of it being on the order paper this afternoon, could we have the opportunity to have a complete and comprehensive statement from the Cabinet Secretary on this matter?
Secondly, could we have a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for health, if possible, please? The First Minister seemed very adamant in his address to me this afternoon that there would be no deficit at the north Wales health board, when a projected deficit of £50 million by the board itself is highlighted in its own board papers, when waiting times are doubling in that particular health board. One can see how residents in north Wales in particular, but in particular politicians from opposition parties in this Chamber who are here to scrutinise the Government, can only shrug their shoulders in disbelief when you think that, five months ago, the health board there is supposed to be making savings of £10 million a month. And to have no impact on waiting times or no impact on staff retention is, I think, fanciful to say the least. If it is the case that the Welsh Government will be injecting new funds into the health board, and, indeed, other health boards that had projected deficits, then I think that needs to be made quite clear and I would, therefore, call on the health Secretary to make a statement to clarify the position that has been taken by the First Minister so that we can have confidence on the measures that are being taken forward to (a) reduce waiting times and (b) make sure that the deficits within the health boards are brought back under control.
A gaf i ofyn am ddau ddatganiad, os yn bosibl, os gwelwch yn dda, arweinydd y tŷ? Mae'r cyntaf yn ymwneud â'r adolygiad o Flaenau'r Cymoedd a gyhoeddwyd gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros yr economi—y cam ar ran ddwyreiniol y ffordd honno yw hwn. Ymddengys bod goblygiadau sylweddol o ran cost ac amser, ac mae busnesau yn fy rhanbarth i eisoes wedi gwneud sylwadau ar y sefyllfa drafnidiaeth ofnadwy y maent yn ei hwynebu, gyda lorïau, ceir, faniau, ddim yn symud mewn oedi traffig sylweddol ar y rhan hon o'r rhwydwaith ffyrdd. Mae'n siomedig, o gofio mai dyma'r gwariant cyfalaf mwyaf gan Lywodraeth Cymru ar ffyrdd, nad oes datganiad ar gael gan y Llywodraeth ynghylch math a maint yr adolygiad ac, yn wir, rhai o'r problemau cychwynnol y maen nhw wedi eu nodi. Nid wyf yn credu ein bod wedi cael yr amser na'r cyfle i holi'r Gweinidog—nac Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, ddylwn i ddweud—ar yr adolygiad hwn. Ac, fel y dywedais, nid rhyw welliant i gilfan yw hwn ond buddsoddiad o £220 miliwn gan Lywodraeth Cymru yn rhan derfynol cyswllt dwyreiniol ffordd Blaenau'r Cymoedd, ac rwyf i o’r farn y byddai wedi haeddu bod ar y papur gorchmynion y prynhawn yma, ond, gan nad yw ar y papur gorchymyn y prynhawn yma, a allwn ni gael y cyfle i gael datganiad cyflawn a chynhwysfawr gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ar y mater hwn?
Yn ail, a gawn ni ddatganiad gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros iechyd, os yn bosibl, os gwelwch yn dda? Roedd y Prif Weinidog yn ymddangos yn bendant iawn yn ei anerchiad wrthyf y prynhawn yma na fyddai diffyg ym mwrdd iechyd gogledd Cymru, pryd y dangosir diffyg rhagamcanol o £50 miliwn gan y bwrdd ei hun yn ei bapurau bwrdd ei hun, pan fo amseroedd aros yn dyblu yn y bwrdd iechyd penodol hwnnw. Gall rhywun weld sut y gall trigolion yn y gogledd yn arbennig, ond yn enwedig gwleidyddion o’r gwrthbleidiau yn y Siambr hon sydd yma i graffu ar y Llywodraeth, godi eu hysgwyddau mewn anghrediniaeth pan fyddwch chi'n ystyried, bum mis yn ôl, bod y bwrdd iechyd yn y fan honno i fod i wneud arbedion o £10 miliwn y mis. Ac mae peidio â chael unrhyw effaith ar amseroedd aros nac unrhyw effaith ar gadw staff, rwy'n credu, yn afrealistig a dweud y lleiaf. Os yw’n wir y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn chwistrellu cronfeydd newydd i'r bwrdd iechyd, ac, yn wir, byrddau iechyd eraill a oedd â diffygion rhagamcanol, yna credaf fod angen gwneud hynny'n gwbl glir a byddwn, felly, yn galw ar yr Ysgrifennydd iechyd i wneud datganiad i egluro'r safbwynt a gymerwyd gan y Prif Weinidog fel y gallwn ni fod yn ffyddiog y bydd y camau sy'n cael eu cymryd yn (a) lleihau amseroedd aros a (b) yn sicrhau bod y diffygion yn y byrddau iechyd yn dod yn ôl o dan reolaeth.
Thank you, Andrew R.T. Davies. In answer to your first question, just to clarify and update, the construction of section 2 on the dualling of A465 Heads of the Valleys road started in early 2015. As has been said before, the challenging nature of the scheme has meant that the programme for completion has been impacted, and in light of this—and I’m sure you will welcome this—the Cabinet Secretary has ordered a comprehensive programme and cost review of the project to be undertaken. This process is expected to be completed shortly, but he is happy to write to Members to give more information about that comprehensive programme and review. I think we have to remember that, of course, this dualling is such a large ongoing project it’s delivered in sections; it supports the objectives of the Valleys taskforce; the road connects the M4 at Neath to Abergavenny and Hereford and provides links between west Wales and the midlands—vital. But he will write to you with more detail of his comprehensive programme and cost review.
On your second point, I did answer questions last week on this. In fact, I think it was a question from Angela Burns, and I think it’s important to repeat the points I made last week in terms of Betsi Cadwaladr to really clarify that it’s not set to overspend by £50 million this year. The board have identified a significant risk that they may not achieve their planned £26 million deficit, but they are properly using their governance arrangements to address this. The health board has recognised the risk, they’re finalising a financial recovery plan to ensure they receive the £26 million deficit, which presents a controlled total, and these actions will materially improve their forecast. But I think also, just in terms of issues around special measures arrangements, since August, officials raised concerns on the financial performance to date and the potential impact on the forecast deficit. They’ve added additional escalation meetings with health board executives on performance and finance. An independent financial governance review has been commissioned, and that will cover the development, adoption and performance of this year’s financial plan. And the Cabinet Secretary, along with the NHS Wales chief executive, has met with the chair and chief executive of Betsi Cadwaladr. So, I think that’s a pretty robust response to your questions.
Diolch, Andrew R.T. Davies. I ateb eich cwestiwn cyntaf, dim ond i egluro a diweddaru, dechreuodd y gwaith adeiladu ar ran 2 deuoli ffordd A465 Blaenau'r Cymoedd yn gynnar yn 2015. Fel y dywedwyd o'r blaen, mae natur heriol y cynllun wedi golygu bod y rhaglen gwblhau wedi ei heffeithio, ac o ystyried hyn—ac rwy'n siŵr y byddwch yn croesawu hyn—mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet wedi gorchymyn cynnal adolygiad cynhwysfawr o’r rhaglen a’r gost ar gyfer y prosiect. Disgwylir i'r broses hon gael ei chwblhau yn fuan, ond mae e'n hapus i ysgrifennu at yr Aelodau i roi rhagor o wybodaeth am yr adolygiad a’r rhaglen gynhwysfawr honno. Rwy'n credu bod yn rhaid inni gofio, wrth gwrs, bod y deuoli hwn yn brosiect mor fawr a pharhaus, mae’n rhaid ei gyflawni mewn rhannau; mae'n cefnogi amcanion tasglu'r Cymoedd; mae'r ffordd yn cysylltu’r M4 yng Nghastell-nedd i'r Fenni a Henffordd ac mae'n darparu cysylltiadau rhwng gorllewin Cymru a chanolbarth Lloegr—hanfodol. Ond bydd yn ysgrifennu atoch chi gyda mwy o fanylion am ei raglen gynhwysfawr a'i adolygiad cost.
Ar eich ail bwynt, atebais gwestiynau ar hyn yr wythnos diwethaf. Mewn gwirionedd, credaf mai cwestiwn gan Angela Burns oedd hwnnw, a chredaf ei bod hi'n bwysig ailadrodd y pwyntiau a wneuthum yr wythnos diwethaf o ran Betsi Cadwaladr i egluro'n iawn nad yw’n debygol o orwario gan £50 miliwn eleni. Mae'r bwrdd wedi nodi risg sylweddol na fydd yn gallu cyflawni ei ddiffyg o £26 miliwn a gynlluniwyd, ond mae yn defnyddio ei drefniadau llywodraethu yn briodol i fynd i'r afael â hyn. Mae'r bwrdd iechyd wedi cydnabod y risg, mae'n cwblhau cynllun adennill ariannol i sicrhau ei fod yn cyflawni’r diffyg o £26 miliwn, sy'n cyflwyno cyfanswm rheoledig, a bydd y camau hyn yn gwella eu rhagolygon yn sylweddol. Ond rwy'n credu hefyd, dim ond o ran materion sy'n ymwneud â threfniadau mesurau arbennig, ers mis Awst, mynegodd swyddogion bryderon am y perfformiad ariannol hyd yn hyn a'r effaith bosibl ar y diffyg a ragwelwyd. Maen nhw wedi ychwanegu cyfarfodydd uwchgyfeirio ychwanegol gyda swyddogion gweithredol y bwrdd iechyd ar berfformiad a chyllid. Comisiynwyd adolygiad llywodraethu ariannol annibynnol, a bydd hwnnw'n cwmpasu datblygu, mabwysiadu a pherfformiad cynllun ariannol eleni. Ac mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, ynghyd â phrif weithredwr GIG Cymru, wedi cwrdd â chadeirydd a phrif weithredwr Betsi Cadwaladr. Felly, credaf fod hwnnw'n ymateb eithaf cadarn i'ch cwestiynau.
Can we have a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for the economy and transport on the apparent inability of Caerphilly County Borough Council to upgrade a roundabout without unleashing absolute chaos? People are hours late for work, children late for school, and there’s evidence of businesses now being affected by the upgrades at Pwll-y-Pant roundabout. The works are set to continue for up to a year, and I fear that, if they continue for up to a year in their current form, that will have a long-term detrimental economic impact from which Caerphilly town might not recover for some time. This is one of the busiest roads in the country. Can the Government please intervene in order to turn this shambles around?
A gawn ni ddatganiad gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros yr economi a thrafnidiaeth ar anallu ymddangosiadol Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Caerffili i wella cylchfan heb achosi anhrefn llwyr? Mae pobl oriau'n hwyr yn cyrraedd y gwaith, plant yn hwyr yn yr ysgol, ac mae tystiolaeth bod busnesau bellach yn cael eu heffeithio gan y gwaith o wella cylchfan Pwll-y-Pant. Bwriedir i'r gwaith barhau am hyd at flwyddyn, ac rwy’n ofni, os bydd yn parhau am hyd at flwyddyn ar ei ffurf bresennol, y bydd yn cael effaith economaidd niweidiol hirdymor ac na fydd tref Caerffili yn gallu ailgodi ar ei thraed am beth amser. Dyma un o'r ffyrdd prysuraf yn y wlad. A wnaiff y Llywodraeth ymyrryd er mwyn gwrthdroi’r llanast hwn os gwelwch yn dda?
Well, the Cabinet Secretary, I’m sure, via his officials, will be aware of the difficulties relating to the construction of this roundabout. But, of course, there are probably examples across Wales where there is disruption as a result of investment in infrastructure, which will, ultimately, make a huge improvement, I’m sure, in terms of connectivity and access, not just for business but also commuters. But you’ve made your point today, Steffan Lewis, so we acknowledge that.
Wel, bydd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, rwy'n siŵr, trwy ei swyddogion, yn ymwybodol o'r anawsterau sy'n ymwneud ag adeiladu'r gylchfan hon. Ond wrth gwrs, mae'n debyg bod enghreifftiau ledled Cymru lle ceir tarfu o ganlyniad i fuddsoddi mewn seilwaith, a fydd, yn y pen draw, yn golygu gwelliant enfawr, rwy'n siŵr, o ran cysylltedd a mynediad, nid yn unig ar gyfer busnes ond i gymudwyr hefyd. Ond rydych chi wedi gwneud eich pwynt heddiw, Steffan Lewis, felly rydym ni’n cydnabod hynny.
Leader of the house, can I take the opportunity to ask for two statements today? The first is an update to this place in terms of the Agricultural Advisory Panel for Wales and where we are in terms of implementing the first Order. I was able, in a previous life, to play a part in ensuring that we set up this panel here in Wales to replace the abolished Agricultural Wages Board for England and Wales. I’m aware that an Order was due to be made in April 2017 and we’re still awaiting that, so I think we need an update in this place as to the next steps in the process and whether, before the formal negotiations, that would actually include us doing normal pay negotiations and backdated payment as well.
The second statement I’d like to request today is an update on where we are in terms of securing a north Wales growth deal. I understand there have been discussions between both the Welsh Government and the UK Government. So I’d appreciate and welcome an update on that. Also, the Welsh Government has been in talks with leaders in the region, and I’d just encourage, going forward, that any negotiation include those stakeholders and business leaders in the area to make sure that we get a deal that actually works in the best interests of the area.
Arweinydd y tŷ, a gaf i achub ar y cyfle i ofyn am ddau ddatganiad heddiw? Y cyntaf yw diweddariad i'r lle hwn o ran Panel Cynghori ar Amaethyddiaeth Cymru a’n sefyllfa ni o ran gweithredu'r Gorchymyn cyntaf. Llwyddais i, mewn bywyd blaenorol, i chwarae rhan wrth sicrhau ein bod ni'n sefydlu'r panel yma yng Nghymru i ddisodli'r Bwrdd Cyflogau Amaethyddol ar gyfer Cymru a Lloegr a oedd wedi ei ddiddymu. Rwy'n ymwybodol bod Gorchymyn i fod i gael ei wneud ym mis Ebrill 2017 ac rydym yn dal i ddisgwyl hwnnw, felly rwy'n meddwl bod angen diweddariad arnom yn y lle hwn ynghylch y camau nesaf yn y broses ac a fyddai hynny, cyn y trafodaethau ffurfiol, mewn gwirionedd yn cynnwys cynnal trafodaethau cyflog arferol a thaliadau ôl-ddyddiedig hefyd.
Yr ail ddatganiad yr hoffwn ofyn amdano heddiw yw diweddariad ar ein sefyllfa o ran sicrhau bargen twf gogledd Cymru. Rwy'n deall y bu trafodaethau rhwng Llywodraeth Cymru a Llywodraeth y DU. Felly, byddwn i'n gwerthfawrogi ac yn croesawu diweddariad ar hynny. Hefyd, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi bod mewn trafodaethau gydag arweinwyr yn y rhanbarth, a byddwn yn annog, wrth fwrw ymlaen, bod unrhyw drafodaeth yn cynnwys y rhanddeiliaid a'r arweinwyr busnes yn yr ardal i sicrhau ein bod yn cael bargen sy’n gweithio er lles gorau'r ardal.
I thank Hannah Blythyn for both those questions. In response to your first question on the agricultural advisory panel and the implementation of an Order, the Cabinet Secretary for Environment and Rural Affairs has referred the draft Agriculture Wages (Wales) Order 2017 back to the Agricultural Advisory Panel for Wales. That’s in accordance with section 4(1)(b) of the Agricultural Sector (Wales) Act 2014. She’s awaiting their response. Consultation on the proposed Order is currently open. It’s due to close on 3 November, and I understand the panel will discuss the outcomes of the consultation at their next meeting.
On your second question in terms of a growth deal for north Wales, we are working very closely with the north Wales growth bid team and providing assistance and guidance, but, again, it’s important that partners identify a realistic and proportionate package of measures to justify the unlocking of Welsh and UK Government financial support. In terms of the Cabinet Secretary’s engagement in this, informal support has been given to the concept of a growth strategy for north Wales, integrated with macro planning for north-west England and connectivity to the wider UK economy. This is clearly important in the context of the growth of the advanced manufacturing and energy sectors, which are prioritised by the Welsh Government as the two lead sectors for the region. But the Minister for Northern Powerhouse and local growth, the Wales Office, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State and the north Wales growth bid team, with our Cabinet Secretary—those meetings have taken place.
Diolch i Hannah Blythyn am y ddau gwestiwn yna. Mewn ymateb i'ch cwestiwn cyntaf ar y panel cynghori amaethyddol a gweithrediad Gorchymyn, mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros yr Amgylchedd a Materion Gwledig wedi cyfeirio’r Gorchymyn drafft Cyflogau Amaethyddol (Cymru) 2017 yn ôl i’r Panel Cynghori ar Amaethyddiaeth Cymru. Mae hynny'n unol ag adran 4(1)(b) o Ddeddf Sector Amaethyddol (Cymru) 2014. Mae hi'n aros am eu hymateb. Mae'r ymgynghoriad ar y Gorchymyn arfaethedig yn agored ar hyn o bryd. Mae i fod i gau ar 3 Tachwedd, a deallaf y bydd y panel yn trafod canlyniadau'r ymgynghoriad yn ei gyfarfod nesaf.
O ran eich ail gwestiwn ar y fargen twf ar gyfer gogledd Cymru, rydym ni’n gweithio'n agos iawn â thîm cynnig twf gogledd Cymru ac yn darparu cymorth ac arweiniad, ond unwaith eto, mae'n bwysig bod partneriaid yn nodi pecyn realistig a chymesur o fesurau i gyfiawnhau datgloi cymorth ariannol Llywodraeth Cymru a Llywodraeth y DU. O ran ymgysylltiad Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn hyn o beth, rhoddwyd cefnogaeth anffurfiol i gysyniad strategaeth dwf ar gyfer gogledd Cymru, wedi'i integreiddio â macro gynllunio ar gyfer gogledd-orllewin Lloegr a chysylltedd ag economi ehangach y DU. Mae hyn yn amlwg yn bwysig yng nghyd-destun twf y sectorau ynni a gweithgynhyrchu uwch, sy'n cael eu blaenoriaethu gan Lywodraeth Cymru fel y ddau sector arweiniol ar gyfer y rhanbarth. Ond mae'r Gweinidog dros Bwerdy Gogledd Lloegr a thwf lleol, Swyddfa Cymru, yr Is-ysgrifennydd Gwladol Seneddol a thîm cynnig twf gogledd Cymru, gyda'n Hysgrifennydd Cabinet ni—mae’r cyfarfodydd hynny wedi digwydd.
Cabinet Secretary, may I ask for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Education on the problems facing supply teachers in Wales? Last week, I spoke to a constituent in Newport who raised concerns that employing supply teachers through agencies had resulted in lower pay and poorer terms and conditions in the sector. Instead of receiving £140 a day, they’re receiving £95, because the rest of the money goes to the agency that supplies the teacher. And that is, I’m sure, not the right way of putting public money—into a different direction, rather than into the education system. My constituent also advised me that many of her colleagues are thinking of leaving the profession, and wants to know why Wales does not adopt a central register system as they do in other devolved nations in the United Kingdom. Could we have a statement on this important issue please?
Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, a gaf i ofyn am ddatganiad gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Addysg ynghylch y problemau sy'n wynebu athrawon cyflenwi yng Nghymru? Yr wythnos diwethaf, siaradais ag etholwr yng Nghasnewydd a gododd bryderon bod cyflogi athrawon cyflenwi trwy asiantaethau wedi arwain at dâl is a thelerau ac amodau gwaeth yn y sector. Yn hytrach na chael £140 y dydd, maen nhw'n cael £95, oherwydd bod gweddill yr arian yn mynd i'r asiantaeth sy'n cyflenwi'r athro. Ac rwy’n siŵr nad dyna’r ffordd gywir o roi arian cyhoeddus—i gyfeiriad gwahanol, yn hytrach nag i'r system addysg. Hefyd, dywedodd fy etholwr wrthyf fod llawer o'i chydweithwyr yn ystyried gadael y proffesiwn, ac mae hi eisiau gwybod pam nad yw Cymru yn mabwysiadu system gofrestru ganolog fel y maen nhw’n ei wneud yn y cenhedloedd datganoledig eraill yn y Deyrnas Unedig. A gawn ni ddatganiad ar y mater pwysig hwn os gwelwch yn dda?
Well, Mohammad Asghar, you will be, I’m sure, staying for the duration of the afternoon to hear the statement from the Cabinet Secretary on teacher recruitment.
Wel, Mohammad Asghar, byddwch chi, rwy'n siŵr, yn aros drwy gydol y prynhawn i glywed y datganiad ar recriwtio athrawon gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet.
Leader of the house, I’d like to ask for a statement on the use of pelvic mesh within the Welsh NHS. I’ve been contacted by one of my constituents regarding her heartbreaking experience following her surgical pelvic mesh implants. My constituent has told me how the surgery impacted on her whole family and feels it’s destroyed her life at the age of 46 years old. She’s been unable to leave the house, unable to go to work, and is, consequently, on half pay, with severe concerns about what her future has to hold. This is one example of thousands of other women across the UK who face the same distressing issue. I understand that the Welsh Government has a task and finish group on this issue, but I would welcome a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for health as soon as possible, please.
Arweinydd y tŷ, hoffwn ofyn am ddatganiad ar y defnydd o rwyll pelfis yn GIG Cymru. Mae un o'm hetholwyr wedi cysylltu â mi ynglŷn â'i phrofiad torcalonus ar ôl ei llawdriniaeth i fewnblannu rhwyll pelfis. Dywedodd fy etholwr wrthyf fod y llawdriniaeth wedi effeithio ar ei theulu cyfan a’i bod yn teimlo bod hyn wedi dinistrio ei bywyd a hithau ond yn 46 mlwydd oed. Nid yw hi wedi gallu gadael y tŷ, mae’n methu â mynd i'r gwaith, ac o ganlyniad, mae hi ar hanner cyflog, gyda phryderon difrifol ynghylch ei dyfodol. Mae hi’n un enghraifft o filoedd o ferched eraill ar draws y DU sy'n wynebu'r un broblem ofidus. Rwy'n deall bod gan Lywodraeth Cymru grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen ar y mater hwn, ond byddwn yn croesawu datganiad gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros iechyd cyn gynted ag y bo modd, os gwelwch yn dda.
This is an important issue affecting constituents, including some of my own constituents, and the Cabinet Secretary for health will make a statement on this matter.
Mae hwn yn fater pwysig sy'n effeithio ar etholwyr, gan gynnwys rhai o'm hetholwyr fy hun, a bydd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros iechyd yn gwneud datganiad ar y mater hwn.
Leader of the house, I would like to call for a statement on public procurement. The recent report of the Auditor General for Wales found that despite broad support for the principle of the National Procurement Service, less than a third of local authorities were satisfied with it, including the Welsh Government, despite being the host organisation. Just £149 million of an estimated maximum potential spend of £1.1 billion was spent through the NPS in 2015-16. That’s just 13.5 per cent. I think you’ll agree with me that the report doesn’t actually shine too well on the Welsh Government. With regard to the total savings to be generated by the NPS, as put forward in the initial business case—some £98 million over five years—it was noted that it is clear that these, and some other subsequent estimates, have proved overly ambitious. So, will the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government now bring forward a more detailed statement on how he intends for his refocusing of the National Procurement Service and Value Wales to address these issues?
Arweinydd y tŷ, hoffwn alw am ddatganiad ar gaffael cyhoeddus. Yn ôl adroddiad diweddar Archwilydd Cyffredinol Cymru, er gwaethaf cefnogaeth eang i egwyddor Gwasanaeth Caffael Cenedlaethol, roedd llai na thraean o'r awdurdodau lleol yn fodlon ag ef, gan gynnwys Llywodraeth Cymru, er gwaethaf y ffaith mai hi oedd y sefydliad cynnal. Dim ond £149 miliwn o amcangyfrif o uchafswm gwariant posibl o £1.1 biliwn a wariwyd drwy'r Gwasanaeth Caffael Cenedlaethol yn 2015-16. Dim ond 13.5 y cant yw hynny. Rwy'n credu y byddwch chi'n cytuno â mi nad yw'r adroddiad mewn gwirionedd yn rhoi darlun rhy dda o Lywodraeth Cymru. O ran cyfanswm yr arbedion sydd i’w cynhyrchu gan y Gwasanaeth Caffael Cenedlaethol, fel y'i cyflwynwyd yn yr achos busnes cychwynnol—tua £98 miliwn dros bum mlynedd—nodwyd ei bod yn glir bod y rhain, a rhai amcangyfrifon dilynol eraill, wedi eu profi'n rhy uchelgeisiol. Felly, a fydd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Gyllid a Llywodraeth Leol bellach yn cyflwyno datganiad manylach ar sut y mae'n bwriadu i’r addasiad i’r Gwasanaeth Caffael Cenedlaethol a Gwerth Cymru fynd i'r afael â'r materion hyn?
The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government is addressing this issue and will be updating Members accordingly.
Mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Gyllid a Llywodraeth Leol yn mynd i'r afael â'r mater hwn a bydd yn diweddaru'r Aelodau yn unol â hynny.
This week, we learnt that London has almost doubled the charges on the most polluting vehicles going into central London, and Oxford has just announced it’s going to be the first UK city to ban petrol and diesel cars from its city centre from 2030. Meanwhile, Paris has regular car-free days in the capital city of France to tackle the toxic air that they’re experiencing. Could the environment Secretary or the transport Secretary make a statement on what carrots and sticks the Welsh Government is considering to clean up the toxic air in our cities, which is driving far too many people to an early death?
Yr wythnos hon, cawsom wybod bod Llundain bron wedi dyblu'r taliadau ar gyfer y cerbydau sy’n llygru fwyaf sy'n mynd i ganol Llundain, ac mae Rhydychen newydd gyhoeddi mai hi fydd y ddinas gyntaf yn y DU i wahardd ceir petrol a diesel o ganol y ddinas o 2030. Yn y cyfamser, mae Paris yn cael diwrnodau dim ceir yn rheolaidd ym mhrifddinas Ffrainc i fynd i'r afael â'r aer gwenwynig y maen nhw’n ei ddioddef. A wnaiff yr Ysgrifennydd dros yr amgylchedd neu’r Ysgrifennydd dros drafnidiaeth wneud datganiad ar ba ysgogiadau a chosbau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu hystyried i lanhau'r aer gwenwynig yn ein dinasoedd, sy'n ‘gyrru’ gormod o bobl i farwolaeth gynnar?
I thank Jenny Rathbone for that question. We are developing a new clean air plan for Wales, including a clean air zone framework, which we will be consulting on. All options will be considered, and the Cabinet Secretary will be making a full statement to Plenary about the ongoing air quality work programme before the end of the year. And also Welsh Government is working very closely with local authorities to discuss the air quality challenges specific to their areas and how compliance with EU limits for nitrogen dioxide will be accelerated.
Diolch i Jenny Rathbone am y cwestiwn yna. Rydym yn datblygu cynllun aer glân newydd i Gymru, sy’n cynnwys fframwaith parth aer glân, y byddwn yn ymgynghori arno. Bydd yr holl ddewisiadau'n cael eu hystyried, a bydd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn gwneud datganiad llawn i'r Cyfarfod Llawn ynghylch y rhaglen waith barhaus ar ansawdd yr aer cyn diwedd y flwyddyn. Ac mae Llywodraeth Cymru hefyd yn gweithio'n agos iawn gydag awdurdodau lleol i drafod heriau ansawdd yr aer sy'n benodol i'w hardaloedd nhw a sut y bydd cydymffurfio â chyfyngiadau'r UE ar gyfer nitrogen deuocsid yn cael ei gyflymu.
Could I request two statements? First, I understand that the national autistic spectrum disorder—although I prefer the term ‘condition’; I hope the Welsh Government will start using that—co-ordinator is leaving her post. Could I therefore call for a statement? Because there’s uncertainty in the community over what the intention is in terms of a replacement, or how this might impact on roll-out of the new national integrated autism service.
Secondly, and finally, could I call for a statement on slavery and human trafficking through Wales? Last week, I questioned the communities Secretary over human trafficking through Holyhead port, referring to the findings of the North Wales Police serious and organised crime local profile modern-day slavery report. In his response, he said we’re the only part of the country—I think he meant the UK—that has an anti-human trafficking co-ordinator, although the UK has in fact had an independent anti-slavery commissioner since 2015, and north Wales lost its north Wales anti-slavery co-ordinator after its three-year funding expired, which had been funded by Welsh Government through local statutory agencies.
I’m told that the trafficking route from Romania to France and to Dublin, through Holyhead port, is a huge issue. The manifests on the ferries are inaccurate, with names being made up. The situation is getting worse, but not enough victims, desperate to be found, are being found. There’s no safe house, reception centre, or facilities in north Wales, and, as I said, we lost the regional co-ordinator. Given that, next Saturday, a non-profit organisation called Haven of Light, working with North Wales Police, the voluntary sector council, community and faith groups, are holding a big event in St Asaph cathedral to raise awareness among the north Wales community about the real issues of trafficking and exploitation, I hope we can have a more thorough response from the Welsh Government that details what actions you are taking singly, and also jointly with UK Government and other agencies. Thank you.
A gaf i ofyn am ddau ddatganiad? Yn gyntaf, deallaf fod y cydgysylltydd anhwylder ar y sbectrwm awtistig cenedlaethol—er bod yn well gennyf y term 'cyflwr'—; rwy'n gobeithio y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn dechrau defnyddio hwnnw—yn gadael ei swydd. A gaf i felly alw am ddatganiad? Mae hyn oherwydd bod ansicrwydd yn y gymuned ynghylch y bwriad o ran cael rhywun yn ei lle, neu sut y gallai hyn effeithio ar gyflwyno'r gwasanaeth awtistiaeth integredig cenedlaethol newydd.
Yn ail, ac yn olaf, a gaf i alw am ddatganiad ar gaethwasiaeth a masnachu pobl trwy Gymru? Yr wythnos diwethaf, holais yr Ysgrifennydd dros gymunedau am fasnachu pobl trwy borthladd Caergybi, gan gyfeirio at ganfyddiadau adroddiad caethwasiaeth fodern proffil lleol troseddau difrifol a threfnedig Heddlu Gogledd Cymru. Yn ei ymateb, dywedodd mai ni yw'r unig ran o'r wlad—credaf mai’r DU yr oedd yn ei olygu—sydd â chydgysylltydd gwrth-fasnachu pobl, er bod gan y DU mewn gwirionedd gomisiynydd gwrth-gaethwasiaeth annibynnol ers 2015, a chollwyd cydgysylltydd gwrth-gaethwasiaeth gogledd Cymru ar ôl i'r cyllid tair blynedd ddod i ben, a ariannwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru trwy asiantaethau statudol lleol.
Dywedir wrthyf fod y llwybr masnachu o Rwmania i Ffrainc ac i Ddulyn, trwy borthladd Caergybi, yn broblem enfawr. Nid yw’r niferoedd ar y fferi yn gywir, ac mae enwau ffug yn cael eu rhoi. Mae'r sefyllfa'n gwaethygu, ond nid oes digon o ddioddefwyr, sy’n daer o fod eisiau cael eu canfod, yn cael eu canfod. Nid oes tŷ diogel, canolfan dderbyn na chyfleusterau yn y gogledd , ac fel y dywedais, fe wnaethom ni golli'r cydgysylltydd rhanbarthol. O gofio, dydd Sadwrn nesaf, bod sefydliad dielw o'r enw Haven of Light, gan weithio gyda Heddlu Gogledd Cymru, cyngor y sector gwirfoddol, grwpiau cymunedol a ffydd, yn cynnal digwyddiad mawr yn eglwys gadeiriol Llanelwy i godi ymwybyddiaeth ymhlith cymuned y gogledd am y problemau gwirioneddol o fasnachu a chamfanteisio, rwy'n gobeithio y gallwn gael ymateb mwy trylwyr gan Lywodraeth Cymru sy'n nodi pa gamau yr ydych yn eu cymryd yn unigol, a hefyd ar y cyd â Llywodraeth y DU ac asiantaethau eraill. Diolch.
Well, of course, the Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Children responded to this last week, and indeed I did in questions on the business statement, in terms of the action that the Welsh Government is taking. It does have the anti-human trafficking co-ordinator—the first in the UK—but is working very closely with the UK Government, because many of the issues you raise are, of course, the responsibility of the Home Office. It is about joint working and a joint leadership group, which of course we are fully engaged with, as we are also with the police and crime commissioners.
Wel, wrth gwrs, ymatebodd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Gymunedau a Phlant i hyn yr wythnos diwethaf, ac yn wir, gwneuthum innau hefyd yn y cwestiynau ar y datganiad busnes, o ran y camau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd. Mae ganddi'r cydgysylltydd gwrth-fasnachu pobl—y cyntaf yn y DU—ond mae'n gweithio'n agos iawn â Llywodraeth y DU, oherwydd, wrth gwrs, cyfrifoldeb y Swyddfa Gartref yw llawer o'r materion yr ydych yn eu codi. Mae hyn yn ymwneud â gweithio ar y cyd a grŵp arweinyddiaeth ar y cyd, yr ydym wrth gwrs yn ymwneud yn llawn ag ef, fel yr ydym gyda’r comisiynwyr heddlu a throseddu hefyd.
Can I raise a concern with the Minister and ask for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for rural affairs on the impact of income for zoos in Wales as a result of a potential tourism tax? One of the things that was discussed at the recent British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly was the great value that zoos across the United Kingdom, and in the Republic of Ireland, have to the local economy. And, of course, they do a great deal of work in terms of education and conservation as well.
Concerns were raised by Dr Pullen, who is the chief executive of the British and Irish Association of Zoos and Aquariums, regarding the potential impact of the Welsh Government’s plans to look at introducing a tourism tax here in Wales. It was met with some alarm by her, because, of course, it would mean significant reductions in gate fees at zoos if it affects visitor numbers, and that could hamper their opportunities to educate and undertake conservation activity. So, I wonder whether we can have a response from the Welsh Government on the concerns that the British and Irish Association of Zoos and Aquariums has raised, and whether there has been any discussion with zoos. As I understand it, there has not been a single discussion with zoos in Wales about this, including the Welsh Mountain Zoo, which, of course, is the national zoo of Wales in my own constituency. They’re very concerned about the potential impact of a tourism tax and I would like to see the Government responding to their concerns.
A gaf i godi pryder gyda'r Gweinidog a gofyn am ddatganiad gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros faterion gwledig ar effaith incwm sŵau yng Nghymru o ganlyniad i dreth twristiaeth bosibl? Un o'r pethau a drafodwyd yn y Cynulliad Seneddol Prydain-Iwerddon diweddar oedd gwerth mawr sŵau ledled y Deyrnas Unedig, ac yng Ngweriniaeth Iwerddon, i'r economi leol. Ac wrth gwrs, maen nhw'n gwneud llawer iawn o waith o ran addysg a chadwraeth hefyd.
Codwyd pryderon gan Dr Pullen, sef prif weithredwr y British and Irish Association of Zoos and Aquariums, ynglŷn ag effaith bosibl cynlluniau Llywodraeth Cymru i ystyried cyflwyno treth twristiaeth yma yng Nghymru. Roedd wedi achosi peth braw iddi, oherwydd, wrth gwrs, byddai'n golygu gostyngiadau sylweddol yn y ffioedd wrth giât sŵau pe byddai’n effeithio ar nifer yr ymwelwyr, a gallai hynny amharu ar eu cyfleoedd i addysgu a chynnal gweithgareddau cadwraeth. Felly, tybed a gawn ni ymateb gan Lywodraeth Cymru ar y pryderon y mae British and Irish Association of Zoos and Aquariums wedi eu codi, ac a fu unrhyw drafodaeth â sŵau. Fy nealltwriaeth i yw na fu unrhyw drafodaeth â sŵau yng Nghymru ynglŷn â hyn, gan gynnwys Sŵ Mynydd Cymru, sef, wrth gwrs, sŵ genedlaethol Cymru yn fy etholaeth i fy hun. Maen nhw’n bryderus iawn am effaith bosibl treth twristiaeth a hoffwn weld y Llywodraeth yn ymateb i'w pryderon.
You’re obviously, clearly, revving up for tomorrow’s opposition debate, it seems to me. I don’t think there is much more—apart from possible fake or false information coming forward. But we look forward to hearing you again, I’m sure, Darren Millar, tomorrow afternoon.
Rydych chi’n amlwg, mae’n glir, yn paratoi ar gyfer dadl yr wrthblaid yfory, mae'n ymddangos i mi. Ni chredaf fod llawer mwy—heblaw bod gwybodaeth ffug neu ddi-sail bosibl yn cael ei chyflwyno. Ond edrychwn ymlaen at gael eich clywed chi eto brynhawn yfory, rwy'n siŵr, Darren Millar.
Leader of the house, I’d be grateful if I could repeat my request of four weeks or so ago for a statement regarding the publication of regulations for the Welsh language standards for the health sector. You did say in your reply to me, at the time, that there would be something in the following day’s debate, but there wasn’t, I’m afraid. So, I’d be very grateful if perhaps you could press for that to be brought forward, to give some indication of when the timetable’s going to be published.
Arweinydd y tŷ, byddwn i'n ddiolchgar pe caf ailadrodd fy nghais o bedair wythnos yn ôl am ddatganiad ynglŷn â chyhoeddi rheoliadau ar gyfer safonau’r Gymraeg yn y sector iechyd. Fe wnaethoch chi ddweud yn eich ateb i mi, ar y pryd, y byddai rhywbeth yn y ddadl y diwrnod canlynol, ond rwy'n ofni nad oedd. Felly, byddwn i'n ddiolchgar iawn pe gallech chi efallai bwyso am i hynny gael ei gyflwyno, er mwyn rhoi rhyw fath o syniad o bryd y bydd yr amserlen yn cael ei chyhoeddi.
Thank you, Suzy Davies. I will certainly enquire as to the progress and timelines.
Diolch i chi, Suzy Davies. Byddaf yn sicr yn holi ynghylch y cynnydd a'r amserlenni.
Can I concur with the earlier comments of Janet Finch-Saunders in referring to the Auditor General for Wales’s report on procurement? I look forward, with the rest of the members of the Public Accounts Committee, to looking further into that. It’s clearly a very important issue for the Assembly to look at.
Secondly, within the last couple of weeks, an application for a new hotel and spa in Monmouth, at the gateway to Wales, has been turned down after being called in by the Welsh Government. The decision to put that application in was roundly welcomed by people in the town of Monmouth and there were potentially great economic benefits of having that development. It was turned down on the grounds of technical advice note 15. I wonder if we could have a statement from the Cabinet Secretary on the workings of TAN 15 across Wales, because I know that this particular development is just one of a number over the last few months and years that have been turned down in this way. I’m all for measures to guard against flooding across Wales, and flooding of new developments, but in the case of a major economic boost such as this, I do think there are serious questions that need to be answered, and I think that the Welsh Government need to look at revising TAN 15 so that legislation like this does not negatively impact the economy of Wales.
A gaf i gytuno â sylwadau cynharach Janet Finch-Saunders wrth gyfeirio at adroddiad Archwilydd Cyffredinol Cymru ar gaffael? Edrychaf ymlaen, gyda gweddill aelodau'r Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus, at roi mwy o ystyriaeth i hynny. Mae'n amlwg yn fater pwysig iawn i'r Cynulliad ei ystyried.
Yn ail, o fewn y bythefnos ddiwethaf, mae cais ar gyfer gwesty a sba newydd yn Nhrefynwy, ger porth Cymru, wedi'i wrthod ar ôl cael ei alw i mewn gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Cafodd y penderfyniad i gyflwyno'r cais hwnnw ei groesawu’n bendant gan y bobl yn nhref Trefynwy ac roedd manteision economaidd mawr posibl o gael y datblygiad hwnnw. Fe'i gwrthodwyd ar sail nodyn cyngor technegol 15. Tybed a gawn ni ddatganiad gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ar weithrediad TAN 15 ledled Cymru, oherwydd gwn mai dim ond un o nifer yw’r datblygiad penodol hwn dros y misoedd a'r blynyddoedd diwethaf sydd wedi cael eu gwrthod fel hyn. Rwyf yn sicr yn cefnogi mesurau i warchod rhag llifogydd ledled Cymru, a llifogydd mewn datblygiadau newydd, ond mewn achos o hwb economaidd mawr fel hwn, rwy'n credu bod yna gwestiynau difrifol y mae angen eu hateb, a chredaf fod angen i Lywodraeth Cymru ystyried diwygio TAN 15 fel nad yw deddfwriaeth o’r fath yn effeithio'n negyddol ar economi Cymru.
In answer to your first question, Nick Ramsay, of course, we welcome the findings of the WAO report. Janet Finch-Saunders raised this earlier, as you said. We are pleased it identifies the leadership we’ve shown in providing direction on public procurement and support for public bodies in Wales on procurement, but we do see this as a further opportunity to build on the progress that’s been achieved, and that’s why the finance Secretary announced his intention to refocus the National Procurement Service and Value Wales within the Welsh Government, considering, of course, all the recommendations in the report as we take forward the work in collaboration with the public sector.
The Cabinet Secretary for Environment and Rural Affairs, I’m sure, will note the points the Member made this afternoon, and there’s always an opportunity to ask that question and make those points to her: question time and appropriately as a Member in committee.
I ateb eich cwestiwn cyntaf, Nick Ramsay, wrth gwrs, rydym ni’n croesawu canfyddiadau adroddiad Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru. Cododd Janet Finch-Saunders hyn yn gynharach, fel y dywedasoch chi. Rydym yn falch ei fod yn nodi'r arweinyddiaeth a ddangoswyd gennym wrth ddarparu cyfeiriad ar gaffael cyhoeddus a chefnogaeth i gyrff cyhoeddus yng Nghymru ar gaffael, ond rydym yn gweld hwn fel cyfle arall i adeiladu ar y cynnydd a gyflawnwyd, a dyna pam y cyhoeddodd yr Ysgrifennydd cyllid ei fwriad i ailbwysleisio'r Gwasanaeth Caffael Cenedlaethol a Gwerth Cymru o fewn Llywodraeth Cymru, gan ystyried, wrth gwrs, yr holl argymhellion yn yr adroddiad wrth inni fwrw ymlaen â'r gwaith mewn cydweithrediad â'r sector cyhoeddus.
Bydd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros yr Amgylchedd a Materion Gwledig, rwy'n siŵr, yn nodi'r pwyntiau a wnaeth yr Aelod y prynhawn yma, ac mae cyfle bob amser i ofyn y cwestiwn hwnnw a gwneud y pwyntiau hynny iddi: amser cwestiynau ac yn briodol fel Aelod mewn pwyllgor.
Diolch i arweinydd y tŷ.
Thank you, leader of the house.
Yr eitem nesaf, felly, yw’r datganiad gan Weinidog Iechyd y Cyhoedd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ar Fil Iechyd y Cyhoedd (Isafbris am Alcohol) (Cymru). Rwy’n galw ar y Gweinidog i wneud ei datganiad, Rebecca Evans.
The next item, therefore, is a statement by the Minister for Social Services and Public Health on the Public Health (Minimum Price for Alcohol) (Wales) Bill. I call on the Minister to make her statement, Rebecca Evans.
I was pleased to introduce the Public Health (Minimum Price for Alcohol) (Wales) Bill to the National Assembly for Wales yesterday. The Bill affirms the Welsh Government’s continuing commitment to take a lead in public health and to do everything we can to improve and protect the health of people in Wales. The aim of the Bill is to tackle alcohol-related harm in Wales. This includes reducing the number of people who are treated in hospital every year as a result of drinking alcohol, and cutting the death toll linked to alcohol. This Bill aims to reduce the alcohol consumption among people who drink hazardous and harmful levels.
The impact of alcohol-related harm in Wales makes for difficult reading. In 2015-16 alone, there were 54,000 hospital admissions in Wales attributable to alcohol. Alcohol-attributable hospital admissions cost the NHS an estimated £120 million a year. In 2015, 463 people died because of alcohol and every one of these of these deaths was preventable. This Bill is about reducing these harms. We already have a range of actions to tackle alcohol-related harm in Wales, from public health campaigns to promote sensible drinking to treatment services for people who need help and support, and this work will continue as part of our substance misuse delivery plan. We have made some important progress to reduce levels of excessive drinking and alcohol-related harm in recent years, but we need to do more. Our ability to deal with the availability and the price of alcohol has been a key constraint, particularly in terms of reducing consumption amongst hazardous and harmful drinkers. We recognise that action to combat the availability of cheap alcohol is a key gap in our strategy. I am therefore bringing forward this Bill to introduce a minimum price for alcohol to address this gap and as part of our wider and continuing approach to promote a healthier relationship with alcohol.
This Bill provides for a minimum price for the sale and supply of alcohol in Wales and makes it an offence for alcohol to be sold or supplied below that price. The minimum price for the supply of alcohol in Wales will be calculated through a formula, taking account of the minimum unit price, the percentage strength of the alcohol and its volume. The actual minimum unit price will be set in regulations. Introducing a minimum price will not increase the price of every alcoholic drink, only those sold below that price. The Bill will also introduce a series of offences and penalties relating to the new minimum pricing system and proposes giving local authorities new powers and duties to enforce it.
We know that the price of alcohol matters. The demand for goods and services is strongly influenced by price, and this is a relationship that extends to alcohol. Evidence from around the world suggests that introducing a minimum price could have an important impact on levels of hazardous and harmful drinking. We believe this will have a critical impact on reducing alcohol consumption, alcohol-related harm, including alcohol-related deaths, and the number of people treated in hospital. And it could reduce the costs associated with those harms.
The 2014 University of Sheffield research estimated that a minimum unit price of 50p, for example, would be worth £882 million to the Welsh economy over 20 years in terms of reductions in alcohol-related illness, crime and workplace absence. We have commissioned the University of Sheffield to update its 2014 analysis of the potential effects of minimum unit pricing policies. We have asked them to model the impacts of different minimum unit prices, ranging from 35p to 70p, and this analysis will be published early in the new year. This analysis and other factors will help to determine the minimum unit price for alcohol for Wales. Evidence suggests that the introduction of a minimum unit price would only have a small impact on moderate drinkers. The largest impacts would be experienced by those people who drink hazardous and harmful amounts of alcohol. These are the people who are most likely to drink alcohol that would be affected by a minimum unit price. They are also the very people that this legislation is aimed at helping.
We have consulted widely about the need for a minimum unit price for alcohol in Wales. The proposal was part of the Welsh Government’s public health White Paper in 2014, and we introduced a draft Bill for consultation in 2015. Two thirds of people who responded to the draft Bill consultation supported the idea of legislating for a minimum price for alcohol in Wales. In particular, there has been widespread recognition amongst stakeholders that introducing a minimum unit price could make an important contribution to reducing the costs associated with excessive drinking on individuals, public services, businesses and communities.
The way in which minimum unit pricing is specifically targeted at increasing the price of strong, cheap alcohol means that it can have an important impact on reducing hazardous and harmful consumption amongst young people. It will also contribute to addressing related issues, for example the rise in pre-loading or pre-drinking, where alcohol is drunk at home before going out to a bar, pub or nightclub.
Minimum unit pricing and its effectiveness at reducing consumption among hazardous and harmful drinkers has been at the centre of the alcohol debate in several countries around the world. Relatively few countries have proposed this exact type of legislation, specifically designed to target strong, cheap alcohol. As in Scotland, here in Wales we are proposing to use the minimum unit price, the strength of the alcohol and the volume of the alcohol to calculate the applicable minimum price. But what we do know is that where countries have introduced similar legislation, there has been a reduction in levels of consumption and associated reductions in alcohol-related harm. In Canada, for example, a 10 per cent increase in average minimum alcohol prices was associated with a 9 per cent reduction in alcohol-related hospital admissions.
Ultimately, increasing the price of alcohol through the introduction of a minimum unit price will reduce hazardous and harmful levels of alcohol consumption. It will improve health and, ultimately, it will save lives. We are still waiting for the outcome of the appeal by the Scotch Whisky Association in relation to minimum unit pricing in Scotland. But, by introducing this legislation now in Wales, we have an opportunity to realise the potential of minimum unit pricing and deliver health and wider socioeconomic benefits across Wales.
There have long been calls—across most political parties in this Chamber and from civic society—for Wales to redefine its relationship with alcohol. This legislation provides us with an important opportunity to do just that. I look forward to the scrutiny process that will follow and to the constructive engagement of the many organisations who have an interest in making this Public Health (Minimum Price for Alcohol) (Wales) Bill a success. Thank you.
Roeddwn yn falch o gyflwyno Bil Iechyd y Cyhoedd (Isafbris am Alcohol) (Cymru) i Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru ddoe. Mae’r Bil yn cadarnhau ymrwymiad parhaus Llywodraeth Cymru i arwain ar iechyd y cyhoedd a gwneud popeth o fewn ein gallu i wella a diogelu iechyd pobl yng Nghymru. Nod y Bil yw mynd i’r afael â niwed sy’n gysylltiedig ag alcohol yng Nghymru. Mae hyn yn cynnwys lleihau nifer y bobl sy’n cael eu trin yn yr ysbyty bob blwyddyn o ganlyniad i yfed alcohol, a thorri ar y nifer fawr o farwolaethau sy’n gysylltiedig ag alcohol. Nod y Bil hwn yw lleihau’r defnydd o alcohol ymysg pobl sy’n yfed lefelau peryglus a niweidiol.
Mae effaith niwed sy’n gysylltiedig ag alcohol yng Nghymru yn hanes anodd ei ddarllen. Yn 2015-16 yn unig, roedd 54,000 o’r derbyniadau i ysbytai yng Nghymru i’w priodoli i alcohol. Mae derbyniadau i ysbytai oherwydd alcohol yn costio £120 miliwn y flwyddyn i’r GIG. Yn 2015, bu farw 463 o bobl oherwydd alcohol a gellid bod wedi atal pob un o’r marwolaethau hyn. Mae’r Bil hwn yn ymwneud â lleihau’r niweidiau hyn. Mae gennym amrywiaeth o gamau gweithredu eisoes i fynd i’r afael â niwed sy’n gysylltiedig ag alcohol yng Nghymru. Mae’r rhain yn cynnwys ymgyrchoedd iechyd y cyhoedd i hyrwyddo yfed synhwyrol a gwasanaethau triniaeth ar gyfer pobl sydd angen cymorth a chefnogaeth. Bydd y gwaith hwn yn parhau fel rhan o’n cynllun cyflawni ar gamddefnyddio sylweddau. Rydym wedi gwneud rhywfaint o gynnydd pwysig i leihau lefelau yfed gormodol a niwed sy’n gysylltiedig ag alcohol yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf, ond mae angen gwneud mwy. Mae ein gallu i ymdrin â chael gafael ar alcohol a phris alcohol wedi bod yn gyfyngiad allweddol, yn enwedig o ran lleihau’r defnydd ymysg yfwyr peryglus a niweidiol. Rydym yn cydnabod bod camau i fynd i’r afael â’r alcohol rhad sydd ar gael yn fwlch allweddol yn ein strategaeth. Felly, rwy’n cyflwyno’r Bil hwn i gyflwyno isafbris am alcohol i fynd i’r afael â’r bwlch hwn ac yn rhan o’n dull ehangach a pharhaus o hyrwyddo perthynas iachach ag alcohol.
Mae’r Bil hwn yn darparu isafbris am werthu a chyflenwi alcohol yng Nghymru ac mae’n ei gwneud yn drosedd i alcohol gael ei werthu neu ei gyflenwi o dan y pris hwnnw. Caiff yr isafbris am gyflenwi alcohol yng Nghymru ei gyfrifo trwy fformiwla, gan gymryd i ystyriaeth yr isafbris uned, cryfder canrannol yr alcohol a’i gyfaint. Bydd yr isafbris uned yn cael ei osod mewn rheoliadau. Ni fydd cyflwyno isafbris yn cynyddu pris pob diod alcoholig, dim ond y rhai a werthir dan y pris hwnnw. Bydd y Bil hefyd yn cyflwyno cyfres o droseddau a chosbau sy’n ymwneud â’r system gosod isafbris newydd ac mae’n cynnig rhoi pwerau a dyletswyddau newydd i awdurdodau lleol i’w gorfodi.
Gwyddom fod pris alcohol yn bwysig. Mae pris yn dylanwadu’n gryf ar y galw am nwyddau a gwasanaethau, ac mae’r berthynas hon yn ymestyn i alcohol. Mae tystiolaeth o bob cwr o’r byd yn awgrymu y gallai cyflwyno isafbris gael effaith bwysig ar lefelau yfed peryglus a niweidiol. Credwn y bydd hyn yn cael effaith allweddol ar leihau’r defnydd o alcohol, niwed sy’n gysylltiedig ag alcohol, gan gynnwys marwolaethau sy’n gysylltiedig ag alcohol, ac ar nifer y bobl sy’n cael eu trin yn yr ysbyty. A gallai leihau’r costau sy’n gysylltiedig â’r niweidiau hynny.
Roedd ymchwil gan Brifysgol Sheffield yn 2014 yn amcangyfrif y byddai isafbris uned o 50c, er enghraifft, yn werth £882 miliwn i economi Cymru dros 20 mlynedd, o ran y lleihad mewn salwch, trosedd ac absenoldeb yn y gweithle sy’n gysylltiedig ag alcohol. Rydym wedi comisiynu Prifysgol Sheffield i ddiweddaru’r dadansoddiad a wnaeth yn 2014 o effeithiau posibl polisïau isafbris uned. Rydym wedi gofyn iddynt fodelu effeithiau gwahanol isafbrisiau uned, yn amrywio o 35c i 70c, a bydd y dadansoddiad hwn yn cael ei gyhoeddi yn gynnar yn y flwyddyn newydd. Bydd y dadansoddiad hwn a ffactorau eraill yn helpu i bennu isafbris uned alcohol ar gyfer Cymru. Mae tystiolaeth yn awgrymu mai effaith fach yn unig y byddai cyflwyno isafbris uned yn ei chael ar yfwyr cymedrol. Y bobl sy’n yfed lefelau peryglus a niweidiol o alcohol fyddai’n profi’r effeithiau mwyaf. Dyma’r bobl sydd fwyaf tebygol o yfed alcohol a fyddai’n cael ei effeithio gan isafbris uned. Y nhw hefyd yr union bobl y mae’r ddeddfwriaeth hon yn anelu at eu helpu.
Rydym wedi ymgynghori’n helaeth ar yr angen am isafbris uned ar gyfer alcohol yng Nghymru. Roedd y cynnig yn rhan o Bapur Gwyn Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ar iechyd y cyhoedd yn 2014, a chyflwynwyd Bil drafft gennym ar gyfer ymgynghoriad yn 2015. Roedd dwy ran o dair o’r bobl a ymatebodd i’r ymgynghoriad Bil drafft yn cefnogi’r syniad o ddeddfu ar gyfer isafbris am alcohol yng Nghymru. Yn benodol, cafwyd cydnabyddiaeth eang ymhlith rhanddeiliaid y gallai cyflwyno isafbris uned wneud cyfraniad pwysig i leihau’r costau sy’n gysylltiedig ag yfed gormodol ar unigolion, gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, busnesau a chymunedau.
Mae’r ffordd y mae gosod isafbris uned wedi’i dargedu’n benodol at gynyddu pris alcohol cryf a rhad yn golygu y gall gael effaith bwysig ar leihau’r defnydd peryglus a niweidiol ymhlith pobl ifanc. Bydd hefyd yn cyfrannu at fynd i’r afael â materion cysylltiedig, er enghraifft y cynnydd mewn yfed cyn mynd allan, lle caiff alcohol ei yfed yn y cartref cyn mynd allan i far, tafarn neu glwb nos.
Mae prisio isafbris uned a’i effeithiolrwydd wrth leihau’r defnydd ymysg yfwyr peryglus a niweidiol wedi bod yn ganolog i’r ddadl ar alcohol mewn sawl gwlad o amgylch y byd. Ychydig iawn o wledydd sydd wedi cynnig y math hwn o ddeddfwriaeth, a gynlluniwyd yn benodol i dargedu alcohol cryf a rhad. Fel yn yr Alban, yma yng Nghymru rydym yn bwriadu defnyddio’r isafbris uned, cryfder alcohol a chyfaint yr alcohol i gyfrifo’r isafbris perthnasol. Ond yr hyn a wyddom yw, mewn gwledydd lle cyflwynwyd deddfwriaeth gyffelyb, y cafwyd gostyngiad yn y lefelau o yfed alcohol a gostyngiadau cysylltiedig mewn niwed sy’n gysylltiedig ag alcohol. Yng Nghanada, er enghraifft, roedd cynnydd o 10 y cant yn isafbrisiau alcohol cyfartalog yn gysylltiedig â gostyngiad o 9 y cant mewn derbyniadau i’r ysbyty sy’n gysylltiedig ag alcohol.
Yn y pen draw, bydd cynyddu pris alcohol trwy gyflwyno isafbris uned yn lleihau lefelau peryglus a niweidiol o yfed alcohol. Bydd yn gwella iechyd ac, yn y pen draw, bydd yn achub bywydau. Rydym yn dal i aros am ganlyniad yr apêl gan y Scotch Whisky Association mewn cysylltiad ag isafbris uned yn yr Alban. Ond, trwy gyflwyno’r ddeddfwriaeth hon yn awr yng Nghymru, mae gennym gyfle i wireddu potensial gosod isafbris uned a darparu manteision iechyd ac economaidd-gymdeithasol ehangach ledled Cymru.
Bu llawer o alwadau— gan y rhan fwyaf o bleidiau gwleidyddol yn y Siambr hon a’r gymdeithas ddinesig—i Gymru ailddiffinio ei pherthynas ag alcohol. Mae’r ddeddfwriaeth hon yn gyfle pwysig inni wneud hynny. Edrychaf ymlaen at y broses graffu a fydd yn dilyn ac at ymgysylltiad adeiladol y nifer o sefydliadau sydd â diddordeb mewn gwneud y Bil Iechyd y Cyhoedd (Isafbris am Alcohol) (Cymru) hwn yn llwyddiant. Diolch.
Thank you, Minister, for bringing forward your statement today and bringing forward the aims and objectives of this Bill. There’s no doubt about it, alcohol addiction is a pernicious social evil, and it is an excuse to abuse others as well as oneself. It is something where I agree with you totally, towards the end of your statement, when you said that Wales needs to redefine its relationship with alcohol. So, we do support the aims and principles behind this Bill.
However, I have got a number of concerns as to whether or not it’s going to achieve its objective. The Welsh Conservatives believe that this should be looked at in the round and that, as the Minister in charge of taking this Bill through, we would hope and seek for you to look at other measures that should be put in place to support people who are addicted to alcohol. We all know that addiction is an evil thing once you’re in the grip of whatever it is you may be addicted to. It is extremely difficult to wriggle out of it. We don’t want people to start stealing because they cannot afford alcohol. We don’t want people to go down an addictive route and start taking drugs because they happen to be cheaper than the bottle of whisky or whatever it might have been that they were previously used to. So, I would like to see, Minister, you put forward, when you go forward with this, a range of measures that would support not just alcohol addiction but all the other addictive behaviours that surround alcoholism, including co-dependency, because that is actually a very important thing that people very seldom look at as to why people drink, and a lot of it is to do with co-dependency.
You say in your statement that you’re very keen to tackle the whole area of getting our young people to be better educated, not to become addicted to alcohol. It isn’t just our young people. I was speaking to a mother only a few days ago who said that her young 15-year-old daughter went to a party where the mother had brought bottles of vodka for those kids to have. So, it’s about educating the young people in the schools, it’s about educating parents and it’s about educating society. I would like to understand, Minister, what you’re going to do and how you’re going to include those kinds of elements in this objective you have for public health.
I know that on a statement we only have time for a few questions, and there are a lot to ask on this, so, as far as the Welsh Conservatives are concerned, we are very keen for you to be able to progress this, and we will be lobbying you with questions and amendments as we go through the process. But I would like to make just a couple more comments, if I may, Presiding Officer.
You say that officials believe that more affluent, high-risk drinkers will also respond to price changes, and they insisted it was not a tax but a tool to change behaviour. Again, I think this is an area where I’d like to see how you’re going to work that one through. Those who are affluent can easily afford another 50p, or another £1, or the high-end drinks that won’t be affected by your tax. They’re going to be drinking Glenlivet, not supermarket, bog-standard whisky, or whatever it might be. This shouldn’t be a tax; this is about public health. I want to make sure that, as this goes through, we are very, very clear that this is a public health issue and not a tax-varying issue. I’d also like to seek reassurance from you, Minister, that any moneys raised from minimum alcohol pricing would actually be ploughed straight back into prevention and support for people.
Finally, Minister, I would like to ask again why you are pressing ahead with this now, and get clarity on that situation, because we are aware that the Scotch Whisky Association have put forward an appeal, and I would have thought it would have saved public time and public purse if we could have seen how successful that was going to be before you brought forward that, so that you would be able to do any lessons learned exercise. I do think we have to be very careful on this issue. It’s got great intent. We absolutely support that intent, but we also need to recognise that the countries that have had success with this are countries that have had a history and culture of prohibition and cultural change. Wales is not that kind of country yet, so we need to make sure that what we put in place will actually reflect and can be implemented successfully in our country to help to defray the pernicious evil that is alcohol addiction.
Diolch, Gweinidog, am gyflwyno’ch datganiad heddiw a chyflwyno nodau ac amcanion y Bil hwn. Yn ddiamau, mae bod yn gaeth i alcohol yn ddrwg cymdeithasol difrifol, ac mae’n esgus i gam-drin eraill yn ogystal â chi eich hun. Mae’n rhywbeth yr wyf yn cytuno â chi yn llwyr arno, tuag at ddiwedd eich datganiad, pan ddywedasoch fod angen i Gymru ailddiffinio ei pherthynas ag alcohol. Felly, rydym yn cefnogi’r nodau a’r egwyddorion y tu ôl i’r Bil hwn.
Fodd bynnag, mae gennyf nifer o bryderon ynghylch a fydd yn cyflawni ei amcan ai peidio. Cred y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig y dylid edrych ar bob agwedd ar hyn ac, fel y Gweinidog sy’n gyfrifol am gyflwyno’r Bil hwn, byddwn yn gobeithio ac yn ceisio eich cael i edrych ar fesurau eraill y dylid eu rhoi ar waith i gefnogi pobl sy’n gaeth i alcohol. Rydym ni i gyd yn gwybod bod dibyniaeth yn beth drwg unwaith yr ydych yn yng ngafael yr hyn yr ydych yn gaeth iddo. Mae’n eithriadol o anodd dod allan ohono. Nid ydym eisiau gweld pobl yn dechrau dwyn oherwydd na allant fforddio alcohol. Nid ydym am weld pobl yn mynd i lawr y llwybr caethiwus ac yn dechrau cymryd cyffuriau oherwydd eu bod yn rhatach na’r botel o wisgi neu’r hyn yr oeddent wedi arfer ag ef yn flaenorol. Felly, hoffwn eich gweld chi, Gweinidog, yn cyflwyno, wrth fwrw ymlaen â hyn, ystod o fesurau a fyddai’n cefnogi nid yn unig gaethiwed i alcohol ond yr holl ymddygiadau caethiwus eraill sy’n ymwneud ag alcoholiaeth, gan gynnwys cyd-ddibyniaeth. Mae hynny mewn gwirionedd yn rhywbeth pwysig iawn nad yw pobl yn aml yn ei ystyried yn rheswm pam mae pobl yn yfed, ac mae llawer ohono’n ymwneud â chyd-ddibyniaeth.
Rydych yn sôn yn eich datganiad eich bod yn awyddus iawn i fynd i’r afael â’r holl faes o gael ein pobl ifanc i gael eu haddysgu’n well, ac i beidio â dod yn gaeth i alcohol. Nid yw’n broblem i bobl ifanc yn unig. Roeddwn yn siarad â mam ychydig ddyddiau yn ôl a ddywedodd fod ei merch ifanc 15 mlwydd oed wedi mynd i barti lle’r oedd y fam wedi dod â photeli o fodca i’r plant. Felly, mae’n ymwneud ag addysgu’r bobl ifanc yn yr ysgolion, mae’n ymwneud ag addysgu’r rhieni ac mae’n ymwneud ag addysgu’r gymdeithas. Hoffwn ddeall, Gweinidog, yr hyn y byddwch chi’n ei wneud a sut y byddwch chi’n cynnwys yr elfennau hynny yn yr amcan hwn sydd gennych ar gyfer iechyd y cyhoedd.
Gwn mai dim ond digon o amser i ychydig o gwestiynau sydd gennym ar ddatganiad, ac mae llawer i’w ofyn am hwn, felly, cyn belled ag y mae’r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn y cwestiwn, rydym yn awyddus iawn i chi allu datblygu hyn, a byddwn yn eich lobïo gyda chwestiynau a gwelliannau wrth i ni fynd drwy’r broses. Ond hoffwn wneud ychydig mwy o sylwadau, os caf, Llywydd.
Rydych yn dweud bod swyddogion yn credu y bydd yfwyr risg uchel mwy cyfoethog hefyd yn ymateb i newidiadau yn y prisiau, ac roeddent yn mynnu nad treth oedd hyn ond offeryn i newid ymddygiad. Unwaith eto, mae hwn yn rhywbeth yr hoffwn wybod sut yr ydych yn mynd i’w gyflawni. Gall y rhai sy’n gyfoethog fforddio 50c arall, neu £1 arall, neu’r diodydd ansawdd uchel na fydd eich treth yn effeithio arnyn nhw. Byddant yn yfed Glenlivet, nid chwisgi archfarchnad, cyffredin, neu beth bynnag y gallai fod. Ni ddylai hon fod yn dreth; mae hyn yn ymwneud ag iechyd y cyhoedd. Rwyf am wneud yn siŵr, wrth i hyn ddigwydd, ein bod yn glir iawn, bod hwn yn fater iechyd y cyhoedd ac nid yn fater sy’n ymwneud ag amrywio trethi. Hoffwn hefyd gael sicrwydd gennych chi, Gweinidog, y byddai unrhyw arian a godir o’r isafbrisiau alcohol yn cael ei ddefnyddio i atal a chefnogi pobl.
Yn olaf, Gweinidog, hoffwn ofyn eto pam eich bod yn bwrw ymlaen â hyn yn awr, a chael eglurder ar y sefyllfa honno. Rydym ni’n ymwybodol bod y Scotch Whisky Association wedi cyflwyno apêl, a byddwn wedi tybio y gellid fod wedi arbed amser cyhoeddus a’r pwrs cyhoeddus pe gallem weld pa mor llwyddiannus y byddai hynny cyn cyflwyno hyn, er mwyn gallu cynnal ymarfer o unrhyw wersi a ddysgwyd. Rwy’n credu bod yn rhaid inni fod yn ofalus iawn ar y mater hwn. Mae’r bwriad yn wych. Rydym yn llwyr gefnogi’r bwriad. Ond mae angen inni gydnabod hefyd bod y gwledydd sydd wedi llwyddo gyda hyn yn wledydd sydd â hanes a diwylliant o wahardd a newid diwylliannol. Nid yw Cymru yn wlad fel’ny eto. Felly, mae angen inni sicrhau y bydd yr hyn a wnawn ni yn cael ei adlewyrchu a’i weithredu’n llwyddiannus yn ein gwlad ni i helpu i glirio’r drwg niweidiol hwn, sef caethineb i alcohol.
I thank you very, very much for those questions and for outlining the support for the aims and the principles of the Bill. I think that we all reflect on the previous public health Bill and the important role that scrutiny played in that, and certainly in strengthening the Bill and in testing the Bill, and I think that we can look forward to similarly robust scrutiny as this Bill makes its way through the Assembly as well.
In terms of the ‘why now?’ question, that’s an excellent question, and actually, in an ideal world it wouldn’t be now, but unfortunately the powers that we have in this area are powers that will be removed from Welsh Government when the Wales Act 2017 comes into force in April of next year, so we need to have cleared Stage 1 within the Assembly in April of next year. So, that’s why we’re taking this particular moment to introduce the Bill. I would have much preferred to have waited until the outcome of the Scottish court case had come to a resolution, and I had hoped it would have been before now. I do understand it will be fairly imminent, and, obviously, when that judgment is made, we’ll have to consider what implications that does have for our Bill. But it is very much a situation of having a very small window in which to act at the moment, so we’re taking this window while we can.
I completely agree with you as well that the minimum unit pricing can only be one part in a much wider jigsaw in terms of tackling substance misuse in the round and particularly supporting people with an alcohol dependency and preventing people from having that dependency in the first place. So, there are a range of ways in which we’re already trying to tackle alcohol consumption and harmful and hazardous drinking, particularly across Wales, and those were set out in our ‘Working Together to Reduce Harm’ substance misuse delivery plan 2016-18, which was published in the Assembly in September of 2016. Examples of some of the actions in that include working to tackle the excessive consumption of alcohol through better education, through prevention, and of course through those treatment services to support the most harmful drinkers, as well as support, of course, for the families of people who misuse alcohol. That has been recognised as one of the significant adverse childhood experiences, which is something that all Ministers have a real concern about as well.
You also referred, quite rightly, to the issue of unintended consequences, and I really do recognise the concerns that you and others have raised that there are some vulnerable groups who might continue to purchase the same amounts of alcohol despite the increase in price. For example, in terms of household spend on areas such as food or heating—making those choices as well. So, I’m very aware of that potential issue and we’re already looking with our area planning boards on how we can ensure that local services are as responsive as possible to vulnerable groups’ needs in this respect.
It’s also important to recognise that, overall, we do expect to see reduced levels of consumption amongst harmful and hazardous drinkers, and associated reductions in alcohol-related harms. However, it is important to make sure that those services are there, which is one of the reasons that we do invest £50 million in our substance-misuse agenda to try and ensure that the support is there for people who need it. I also noted some of the other concerns raised by stakeholders about unintended consequences. For example, families might, as I say, be forced to make those difficult choices as well, but as you suggested and others have suggested here today, individuals might switch to other substances. We think the risk that consumers could switch to illegal drugs or new psychoactive substances, for example, is considered low, as an illegal or untested substance is clearly qualitatively a big step and very different to the consumption of alcohol, and most people wouldn’t consider that to be a valid substitute. However, it is something that we intend to explore further with the Welsh Government’s advisory panel on substance misuse. They’ve previously commented that they don’t believe that this is likely to be an issue. However, it’s something that we’re very much alive to as well.
In terms of referring to this as a tax, we are very clear that this isn’t a tax. It’s very much a minimum unit price. The evidence suggests that higher taxation alone wouldn’t be as effective as a minimum unit price. In fact, you’d have to reduce taxation by a large amount to achieve the same kind of benefits to health and the NHS that we would expect to see from a minimum unit price alone. That’s one of the reasons why it’s important to look at this very much as a minimum unit price. It does allow us to target those high-strength very cheap alcohol products rather than taking a blanket approach and raising the price of all alcohol as well.
An interesting note to this is that the 2014 modelling suggests that high drinkers purchase more of their alcohol below an example minimum unit price of 50p at the moment. These are people at all income levels. High-risk drinkers in poverty buy 42 per cent of their alcohol below the 50p per unit, as compared to 21 per cent for moderate drinkers in poverty. High-risk drinkers not in poverty buy 28 per cent of units below 50p, compared to 14 per cent of moderate drinkers not in poverty. So, the minimum unit price would change the price of approximately a fifth of the alcohol purchased by moderate drinkers in poverty, whereas an increase in taxation would affect the price of all drinks purchased by people living in lower income households.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, iawn am y cwestiynau hynny ac am amlinellu’r gefnogaeth i nodau ac egwyddorion y Bil. Rwy’n credu ein bod ni i gyd yn ystyried y Bil iechyd y cyhoedd blaenorol a swyddogaeth bwysig craffu ar hynny, ac yn sicr wrth gryfhau’r Bil ac wrth brofi’r Bil. A chredaf y gallwn edrych ymlaen at graffu yr un mor gadarn wrth i’r Bil hwn fynd drwy’r Cynulliad hefyd.
O ran y cwestiwn ‘pam nawr?’, mae hwnnw’n gwestiwn ardderchog, ac mewn gwirionedd, mewn byd delfrydol ni fyddai hyn yn digwydd nawr. Ond yn anffodus mae’r pwerau sydd gennym yn y maes hwn yn bwerau a fydd yn cael eu tynnu oddi wrth Lywodraeth Cymru pan ddaw Deddf Cymru 2017 i rym ym mis Ebrill y flwyddyn nesaf. Felly, mae’n rhaid i ni fod wedi clirio Cyfnod 1 yn y Cynulliad ym mis Ebrill y flwyddyn nesaf. Felly, dyna pam yr ydym yn cyflwyno’r Bil ar adeg benodol hon. Byddai’n well gennyf fod wedi aros hyd nes i achos llys yr Alban ddod i benderfyniad, ac roeddwn wedi gobeithio y byddai hynny wedi digwydd cyn nawr. Rwy’n deall y bydd yn digwydd yn fuan, ac, yn amlwg, pan wneir y dyfarniad hwnnw, bydd yn rhaid inni ystyried goblygiadau hynny i’n Bil ni. Ond mae’n fater o gael ffenestr fach iawn i weithredu oddi mewn iddi ar hyn o bryd, ac rydym ni’n cymryd y ffenestr hon tra gallwn ni.
Rwy’n cytuno’n llwyr â chi hefyd mai dim ond un rhan mewn jig-so llawer ehangach yw gosod isafbris uned o ran mynd i’r afael â chamddefnyddio sylweddau yn llawn a thrylwyr, ac yn benodol gefnogi pobl â dibyniaeth ar alcohol, ac atal pobl rhag mynd yn ddibynnol ar alcohol yn y lle cyntaf. Felly, rydym ni eisoes yn ceisio mynd i’r afael ag yfed alcohol ac yfed niweidiol a pheryglus mewn amrywiaeth o ffyrdd, yn benodol ledled Cymru, a nodwyd y rhain yn ein cynllun cyflawni ‘Gweithio Gyda’n Gilydd i Leihau Niwed’ ar gyfer camddefnyddio sylweddau 2016-18 , a gyhoeddwyd yn y Cynulliad ym mis Medi 2016. Mae enghreifftiau o rai o’r camau gweithredu yn cynnwys gweithio i fynd i’r afael ag yfed gormod o alcohol trwy addysg well, trwy atal, ac wrth gwrs drwy’r gwasanaethau triniaeth hynny i gefnogi’r yfwyr mwyaf niweidiol, yn ogystal â chymorth, wrth gwrs, i deuluoedd pobl sy’n camddefnyddio alcohol. Cydnabuwyd hynny fel un o brofiadau andwyol iawn plentyndod, sy’n rhywbeth y mae pob Gweinidog yn bryderus iawn y ei gylch.
Cyfeiriasoch, yn eithaf priodol, at y mater o ganlyniadau anfwriadol, ac rwy’n cydnabod y pryderon yr ydych chi ac eraill wedi’u codi bod rhai grwpiau agored i niwed a allai barhau i brynu’r un faint o alcohol er gwaethaf y cynnydd yn y pris. Er enghraifft, o ran gwariant aelwydydd ar feysydd megis bwyd neu wresogi—gwneud y dewisiadau hynny hefyd. Felly, rwy’n ymwybodol iawn o’r broblem bosib honno ac rydym eisoes yn edrych gyda’n byrddau cynllunio ardal ar sut y gallwn sicrhau bod gwasanaethau lleol mor ymatebol â phosib i anghenion grwpiau bregus yn hyn o beth.
Mae hefyd yn bwysig cydnabod, yn gyffredinol, ein bod yn disgwyl gweld lefelau llai o ddefnydd ymhlith yfwyr niweidiol a pheryglus, a gostyngiadau cysylltiedig mewn niwed sy’n gysylltiedig ag alcohol. Fodd bynnag, mae’n bwysig sicrhau bod y gwasanaethau hynny yno, sef un o’r rhesymau pam rydym yn buddsoddi £50 miliwn yn ein hagenda camddefnyddio sylweddau i geisio sicrhau bod y gefnogaeth yno i bobl sydd ei hangen. Nodais hefyd rai o’r pryderon eraill a godwyd gan randdeiliaid ynghylch canlyniadau anfwriadol. Er enghraifft, gallai teuluoedd, fel y dywedais, gael eu gorfodi i wneud y dewisiadau anodd hynny hefyd, ond fel yr awgrymwyd gennych chi, ac mae eraill wedi awgrymu yma heddiw, gallai unigolion newid i ddefnyddio sylweddau eraill. Rydym o’r farn bod y risg y gallai defnyddwyr newid i gyffuriau anghyfreithlon neu sylweddau seicoweithredol newydd, er enghraifft, yn weddol isel. Mae sylwedd anghyfreithlon neu sylwedd sydd heb ei brofi yn amlwg yn ansoddol yn gam mawr ac yn wahanol iawn i’r defnydd o alcohol, ac ni fyddai’r rhan fwyaf o bobl yn ystyried hynny i fod yn rhywbeth amgen dilys. Fodd bynnag, mae’n rhywbeth yr ydym yn bwriadu ei archwilio ymhellach gyda phanel cynghori Llywodraeth Cymru ar gamddefnyddio sylweddau. Maent wedi dweud yn flaenorol nad ydynt yn credu bod hyn yn debygol o fod yn broblem. Fodd bynnag, mae’n rhywbeth yr ydym ni’n ymwybodol iawn ohono hefyd.
O ran cyfeirio at hon fel treth, rydym yn glir iawn nad yw hon yn dreth. Mae’n bendant yn isafbris uned. Mae’r dystiolaeth yn awgrymu na fyddai trethi uwch yn unig mor effeithiol ag isafbris uned. Mewn gwirionedd, byddai’n rhaid ichi ostwng trethi’n fawr i sicrhau’r un math o fanteision i iechyd a’r GIG ag y byddem yn disgwyl eu gweld o isafbris uned yn unig. Dyna un o’r rhesymau pam mae’n bwysig edrych ar hyn fel isafbris uned. Mae’n ein galluogi i dargedu’r cynhyrchion alcohol rhad cryf iawn hynny yn hytrach na chymryd dull mwy cyffredinol a chodi pris pob diod alcohol hefyd.
Nodyn diddorol i hyn yw bod modelu 2014 yn awgrymu bod y rhai sy’n yfed llawer yn prynu mwy o’u halcohol o dan isafbris uned 50c ar hyn o bryd. Mae’r rhain yn bobl ar bob lefel incwm. Mae yfwyr risg uchel mewn tlodi yn prynu 42 y cant o’u halcohol o dan y 50c yr uned, o’i gymharu â 21 y cant ar gyfer yfwyr cymedrol mewn tlodi. Mae yfwyr risg uchel nad ydynt mewn tlodi yn prynu 28 y cant o unedau o dan 50c, o’i gymharu â 14 y cant o yfwyr cymedrol nad ydynt mewn tlodi. Felly, byddai’r isafbris uned yn newid pris oddeutu un rhan o bump o’r alcohol a brynir gan yfwyr cymedrol mewn tlodi, tra byddai cynnydd mewn treth yn effeithio ar bris yr holl ddiodydd a brynir gan bobl sy’n byw mewn cartrefi incwm is.
Can I thank the Minister for Social Services and Public Health and welcome her statement, and welcome the general direction of travel? In Plaid, we are in support of minimum alcohol unit pricing. It has been in our manifestos for the 2011 and 2016 elections to this Assembly, once we had gained the powers after the 2011 referendum—obviously when we had some powers to do this sort of thing. More in a minute about losing those powers, come next Aril fools’ day. Anyway, back to—. We’re talking here about the minimum price for alcohol, which, as you say in your statement, is a formula combining volume of alcohol with the strength of that alcohol and the minimum unit price. I would just like to explore a bit more about that formula and how those three areas are weighted up against one another, just in case you get some unintended consequences there as well, in that, unintentionally, people would be able to afford to buy a stronger alcohol if the weighting of that formula was, in some ways, not as it should be. Sometimes, there can be unintended consequences just because the formula weighting isn’t quite correct. I echo some of the other unintended consequences as Angela Burns and Leanne Wood mentioned earlier, in terms of other drugs, both illicit and legal, being used as a substitute. But that’s down to this being a public health measure, and we would expect additional public health services, in terms of drugs and substance misuse services, to be available once this piece of legislation comes in.
But, at the end of the day, this piece of legislation is about saving lives. Not every piece of legislation we pass in this place saves lives, but we have had a smoking ban that saves lives, and we’ve got an opt-out organ donation law that also saves lives. So, we can add this one to that list—just thinking from a medical point of view of the high numbers of accident and emergency attendances brought about by alcohol. On some nights in A&E, over 90 per cent of attendees are there under the influence of alcohol. It has a huge impact on health, as we all know, not just causing cirrhosis of the liver and liver failure, but various cancers as well, due to the corrosive effect of drinking strong spirits—from mouth and tongue, oesophageal cancer downwards—as well as huge rates of domestic violence, general assaults, huge policing issues and individual lives wrecked by alcoholism. So, there’s a definite need to address our relationship with alcohol, as you say, and this is but one plank in that. The modelling already referred to from Sheffield in 2014 attests that there would be 53 fewer deaths in Wales annually, and 1,400 fewer hospital admissions annually, caused by alcohol, if we brought in this sort of legislation.
We are very supportive of this. I’d like some idea of the details, as I mentioned, and also, what of the response to any Supreme Court decision in Scotland? What legal advice have we got as standby, whether the Supreme Court approves what the Scottish Government are trying to do, despite the vehement opposition of the whisky industry, or whether it is rejected? We need to know where we are going, because we’ve known about the issues of how to tackle the problems of alcohol, i.e. making it more expensive, making it more difficult to get hold of, and measures against drink driving and underage drinking—that was revealed in a World Health Organisation study. As far back as 2004, there’s been a need to act on this. In this country, in the UK generally, we’ve known about these issues and the need to do something about them urgently, so, ‘Why the delay?’ is another question, particularly now, with the Wales Act 2017, we face losing the powers to enforce this.
Obviously, if this measure, this Bill, comes before the health committee, we would be looking to enable the Minister to get it passed as soon as, in view of the fact that the clock is ticking, before April fool’s day 2018. Well, if we haven’t reached Stage 1 by then, this falls. That’s why this party voted against the enactment of the Wales Act 2017, uniquely in this Chamber, because we have lost powers and we are losing powers, and this is a very vivid illustration of that loss of powers. So, I wish the Minister well.
There’s a lot of detailed work to be done on the different levels of unit alcohol pricing—30p per unit, 35p, 50p, 70p, or even more—but you say you’ll have the results of those in the new year. Really, as I said, the clock is ticking—we need that evidence now, Minister, because we need to get this legislation passed. Otherwise, the whole thing falls down, and a lot of brave words said in here about the health implications and how we’re going to save lives will mean nothing if the legislation is lost. Diolch yn fawr.
A gaf i ddiolch i’r Gweinidog Iechyd y Cyhoedd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol a chroesawu ei datganiad, a chroesawu’r cyfeiriad teithio cyffredinol? Yn Plaid, rydym yn cefnogi’r isafbris am uned o alcohol. Mae wedi bod yn ein maniffestos ar gyfer etholiadau 2011 a 2016 i’r Cynulliad hwn, ar ôl i ni ennill y pwerau ar ôl refferendwm 2011—yn amlwg pan oedd gennym rai pwerau i wneud y math hwn o beth. Mwy yn y munud am golli’r pwerau hynny, diwrnod ffŵl Ebrill nesaf. Beth bynnag, yn ôl at—. Rydym ni’n siarad yma am yr isafbris am alcohol, sydd, fel y dywedwch yn eich datganiad, yn fformiwla sy’n cyfuno cyfaint yr alcohol â chryfder yr alcohol hwnnw a’r isafbris uned. Hoffwn edrych yn fanylach ar y fformiwla honno a sut mae’r tri maes hynny yn cael eu pwysoli yn erbyn ei gilydd, rhag ofn y cewch ganlyniadau anfwriadol yno hefyd, oherwydd, yn anfwriadol, byddai pobl yn gallu fforddio prynu alcohol cryfach pe na bai pwysoli’r fformiwla honno, mewn rhai ffyrdd, fel y dylai fod. Weithiau, gall fod canlyniadau anfwriadol dim ond oherwydd nad yw’r fformiwla wedi’i phwysoli’n hollol gywir. Rwy’n adleisio rhai o’r canlyniadau anfwriadol eraill a grybwyllodd Angela Burns a Leanne Wood yn gynharach, o ran cyffuriau eraill, yn anghyfreithlon a chyfreithlon, yn cael eu defnyddio yn lle alcohol. Ond mae hynny oherwydd bod hwn yn fesur iechyd y cyhoedd, a byddem yn disgwyl bod gwasanaethau ychwanegol ar gyfer iechyd y cyhoedd, o ran gwasanaethau cyffuriau a chamddefnyddio sylweddau, ar gael ar ôl i’r ddeddfwriaeth hon ddod i rym.
Ond, ar ddiwedd y dydd, mae’r ddeddfwriaeth hon yn ymwneud ag achub bywydau. Nid yw pob darn o ddeddfwriaeth yr ydym yn ei basio yn y lle hwn yn achub bywydau. Ond rydym wedi cael gwaharddiad ysmygu sy’n achub bywydau, ac mae gennym gyfraith optio allan o roi organau, sydd hefyd yn achub bywydau. Felly, gallwn ychwanegu hon at y rhestr honno—dim ond wrth ystyried, o safbwynt meddygol, y nifer uchel o ddamweiniau ac achosion brys a achosir gan alcohol. Ar rai nosweithiau yn yr Adran Damweiniau ac Achosion Brys, mae dros 90 y cant o’r rhai sy’n mynd yno dan ddylanwad alcohol. Mae’n cael effaith enfawr ar iechyd, fel y gwyddom i gyd, nid yn unig yn achosi sirosis yr afu a methiant yr afu, ond mae amryw o ganserau hefyd, oherwydd effeithiau difäol yfed gwirodydd cryf—o ganser y geg a’r tafod, yr oesoffagws i lawr—yn ogystal â chyfraddau enfawr o drais domestig, ymosodiadau cyffredinol, problemau plismona enfawr a bywydau unigol sydd wedi’u difetha gan alcoholiaeth. Felly, mae angen mynd i’r afael â’n perthynas ag alcohol yn bendant, fel y dywedwch, ac nid yw hyn ond un elfen yn unig o hynny. Mae’r gwaith modelu y cyfeiriwyd ato eisoes gan Sheffield yn 2014 yn tystio y byddai 53 yn llai o farwolaethau yng Nghymru yn flynyddol, a 1,400 yn llai o dderbyniadau i’r ysbyty bob blwyddyn, a achosir gan alcohol, pe baem yn cyflwyno’r math hwn o ddeddfwriaeth.
Rydym yn cefnogi hyn yn fawr. Hoffwn i gael rhyw syniad o’r manylion, fel y crybwyllais, a hefyd , beth am yr ymateb i unrhyw benderfyniad y Goruchaf Lys yn yr Alban? Pa gyngor cyfreithiol sydd gennym wrth gefn, p’un a yw’r Goruchaf Lys yn cymeradwyo’r hyn y mae Llywodraeth yr Alban yn ceisio’i wneud, er gwaethaf gwrthwynebiad cryf y diwydiant whisgi, neu p’un a yw’n cael ei wrthod? Mae angen inni wybod i ble’r ydym yn mynd, oherwydd ein bod ni wedi gwybod am y materion o ran mynd i’r afael â phroblemau alcohol, h.y. ei wneud yn ddrutach, ei wneud yn anos cael gafael arno, a mesurau yn erbyn yfed a gyrru ac yfed dan oed—a ddatgelwyd mewn astudiaeth gan Sefydliad Iechyd y Byd. Mor bell yn ôl â 2004, bu angen gweithredu ar hyn. Yn y wlad hon, yn y DU yn gyffredinol, rydym ni wedi gwybod am y materion hyn a’r angen i wneud rhywbeth amdanynt ar frys, felly, mae ‘Pam yr oedi?’ yn gwestiwn arall, yn enwedig yn awr pan ein bod yn wynebu colli’r pwerau i orfodi hyn yn sgil Deddf Cymru 2017.
Yn amlwg, os bydd y mesur hwn, y Bil hwn, yn dod gerbron y pwyllgor iechyd, byddem yn ceisio galluogi’r Gweinidog i’w gael wedi ei basio cyn gynted â phosibl, o ystyried bod amser yn mynd yn ei flaen, cyn diwrnod ffŵl Ebrill 2018. Wel, os nad ydym ni wedi cyrraedd Cam 1 erbyn hynny, mae hyn yn methu. Dyna pam y pleidleisiodd y blaid hon yn erbyn deddfu Deddf Cymru 2017, yn unigryw yn y Siambr hon, oherwydd ein bod ni wedi colli pwerau a’n bod ni yn colli pwerau, ac mae hyn yn enghraifft dda iawn o’r golled honno o bwerau. Felly, rwy’n dymuno’n dda i’r Gweinidog.
Mae llawer o waith manwl i’w wneud ar y gwahanol lefelau o brisio unedau alcohol—30c yr uned, 35c, 50c, 70c, neu hyd yn oed mwy—ond dywedwch y bydd gennych ganlyniadau’r gwaith hwnnw yn y flwyddyn newydd. Yn wir, fel y dywedais, mae amser yn mynd yn ei flaen—mae angen y dystiolaeth honno arnom yn awr, Gweinidog, oherwydd bod angen inni gael y ddeddfwriaeth hon wedi’i phasio. Fel arall, mae’r holl beth yn methu, a bydd llawer o eiriau dewr a ddywedwyd yma am y goblygiadau o ran iechyd a sut y byddwn ni’n achub bywydau yn golygu dim os caiff y ddeddfwriaeth ei cholli. Diolch yn fawr.
I thank you very much for those questions, and also for indicating Plaid Cymru’s long-standing support for this particular approach.
In terms of how the minimum unit price itself will be calculated, that is expressed on the face of the Bill, and that’s by multiplying the minimum unit price at what it is set by the percentage of alcohol and by the volume of the alcohol being sold. The actual minimum unit price isn’t on the face of the Bill, actually; that will be set through regulations as well. We think that that’s a more appropriate response, because it does allow us to look at experiences elsewhere where the minimum unit price has been set but hasn’t allowed that kind of flexibility that would be needed, perhaps, to change to respond to the changing circumstances within the economy as well. I am absolutely as keen as anybody to have the results of the new minimum unit pricing remodelling work done by Sheffield University.
I would have liked to have brought this in sooner, but, actually, this was something that had been passed—this approach had been passed—by the Scottish Parliament back in 2012. So, it’s spent the last five years going through various courts. Obviously, in an ideal world, we would have the outcome of the Scottish judgment, which is now sitting with the Supreme Court, in order to make up our minds as to what the appropriate response would be. However, the circumstances are such that we need to take this action now.
In terms of what will happen if the case is rejected in the Supreme Court, I think that Welsh Government will have to consider, alongside our lawyers, the basis on which it would be rejected and consider what our approach would be moving forward from that.
But you certainly outlined the stark reasons why it is important that we take this particular approach to tackling some of the harmful and hazardous levels of drinking that we have in Wales. Although we have made real progress, I would say, over recent years, through education, through preventative approaches and so on, the levels do remain too high. According to national survey data, one in five adults is currently drinking above the new weekly guidelines, and almost a third report drinking above the previous daily guidelines on at least one day in the previous week. So, although we’re making progress, as I said in my statement, in 2015, the year we have the most recent figures for, there were 483 alcohol-related deaths in Wales. Obviously, all these deaths are tragic. They’re all avoidable, and they all leave family, friends and other loved ones behind. So, this demonstrates the urgency for further progress as well.
As you’ve quite rightly outlined as well, it’s not just alcohol-related deaths. Alcohol-related illnesses are a real concern and remain stubbornly high in Wales. Just as one example, in 2015—again, the most recent figures—807 people died from liver disease in Wales, and that’s an increase of 131 over the past five years. Also, alcohol-related liver disease accounts for over a third of these liver disease deaths in Wales.
You referred to the importance of the modelling, and that modelling work estimates the impact of minimum unit pricing on moderate drinkers will be minimal. The Sheffield alcohol research group research showed that hazardous and harmful drinkers combined constitute 26 per cent of the drinker population, but they actually consume 72 per cent of all alcohol. Furthermore, consumption changes will differ across the population, but based on a 50p minimum unit price the analysis estimated that high-risk drinkers will consume 293 fewer units per year, spending an extra £32 a year, whilst moderate drinkers will only reduce their consumption by six units per year, increasing their spending by £2 a year.
Diolch yn fawr iawn am y cwestiynau hynny, a hefyd am ddangos cefnogaeth barhaol Plaid Cymru i’r ymagwedd benodol hon.
O ran sut y bydd yr isafbris uned ei hun yn cael ei gyfrifo, mynegir hynny ar wyneb y Bil, a gwneir hynny trwy luosi’r isafbris uned a bennir gan ganran yr alcohol a thrwy gyfaint yr alcohol sy’n cael ei werthu. Nid yw’r gwir isafbris uned ar wyneb y Bil, mewn gwirionedd; bydd hynny’n cael ei bennu trwy reoliadau hefyd. Credwn fod hynny’n ymateb mwy priodol, gan ei fod yn caniatáu i ni edrych ar brofiadau mewn mannau eraill lle mae’r isafbris uned wedi’i bennu ond nid yw wedi caniatáu'r math hwnnw o hyblygrwydd y byddai ei angen, efallai, i newid mewn ymateb i’r newid yn amgylchiadau yr economi hefyd. Rwyf i mor awyddus ag unrhyw un i gael canlyniadau’r gwaith ailfodelu isafbrisiau uned newydd a wnaed gan Brifysgol Sheffield.
Byddwn i wedi hoffi cyflwyno hyn yn gynt, ond, mewn gwirionedd, roedd hyn yn rhywbeth a oedd wedi’i basio—roedd y dull hwn wedi’i basio —gan Senedd yr Alban yn ôl yn 2012. Felly, y mae wedi treulio’r pum mlynedd diwethaf yn mynd trwy wahanol lysoedd. Yn amlwg, mewn byd delfrydol, byddai gennym ganlyniad dyfarniad yr Alban, sydd bellach yn eistedd gyda’r Goruchaf Lys, er mwyn penderfynu ar yr ymateb priodol. Fodd bynnag, mae’r amgylchiadau yn golygu bod angen inni gymryd y camau hyn yn awr.
O ran yr hyn a fydd yn digwydd os gwrthodir yr achos yn y Goruchaf Lys, rwy’n credu y bydd yn rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru ystyried, ar y cyd â’n cyfreithwyr, y sail dros ei wrthod ac ystyried beth fyddai ein hymagwedd wrth symud ymlaen o hynny.
Ond, yn sicr, gwnaethoch chi amlinellu’r rhesymau amlwg pam ei bod yn bwysig ein bod yn mynd ati yn y modd penodol hwn i ymdrin â rhai o’r lefelau yfed niweidiol a pheryglus sydd gennym yng Nghymru. Er ein bod ni wedi gwneud cynnydd gwirioneddol, yn fy marn i, yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf, trwy addysg, trwy ddulliau ataliol ac yn y blaen, mae’r lefelau yn parhau i fod yn rhy uchel. Yn ôl data’r arolwg cenedlaethol, mae un o bob pum oedolyn yn yfed uwchlaw’r canllawiau wythnosol newydd, ar hyn o bryd, ac mae bron i draean yn adrodd eu bod wedi yfed uwchlaw’r canllawiau dyddiol blaenorol o leiaf unwaith yn ystod yr wythnos flaenorol. Felly, er ein bod yn gwneud cynnydd, fel y dywedais yn fy natganiad, yn 2015, y flwyddyn y mae gennym y ffigurau diweddaraf ar ei chyfer, roedd 483 o farwolaethau yn gysylltiedig ag alcohol yng Nghymru. Yn amlwg, mae’r holl farwolaethau hyn yn drasig. Mae modd osgoi pob un, ac maent i gyd yn gadael teulu, ffrindiau ac anwyliaid eraill ar eu holau. Felly, mae hyn yn dangos bod gwneud rhagor o gynnydd yn fater o frys hefyd.
Fel yr ydych chi wedi ei amlinellu yn ddigon iawn hefyd, nid yw dim ond yn fater o farwolaethau sy’n gysylltiedig ag alcohol. Mae afiechydon sy’n gysylltiedig ag alcohol yn bryder gwirioneddol ac yn parhau yn ystyfnig o uchel yng Nghymru. I roi un enghraifft yn unig, yn 2015—eto, y ffigurau diweddaraf—bu farw 807 o bobl o glefyd yr afu yng Nghymru, ac mae hynny’n gynnydd o 131 yn ystod y pum mlynedd diwethaf. Hefyd, mae dros draean o’r marwolaethau hyn o glefyd yr afu yng Nghymru yn achosion sy’n gysylltiedig ag alcohol.
Gwnaethoch chi gyfeirio at bwysigrwydd y modelu, a bod y gwaith modelu hwnnw yn amcangyfrif mai bach iawn fydd effaith isafbrisiau uned ar yfwyr cymedrol. Dangosodd ymchwil grŵp ymchwil alcohol Sheffield fod yfwyr peryglus a niweidiol, at ei gilydd yn ffurfio 26 y cant o’r boblogaeth yfed, ond eu bod, mewn gwirionedd, yn yfed 72 y cant o’r holl alcohol. Ar ben hynny, bydd y newidiadau i ddefnydd yn amrywio ar draws y boblogaeth, ond ar sail isafbris uned o 50c, amcangyfrifwyd yn y dadansoddiad y bydd yfwyr risg uchel yn yfed 293 yn llai o unedau y flwyddyn, gan wario £32 yn fwy y flwyddyn, ond bydd yfwyr cymedrol dim ond yn yfed chwe uned y flwyddyn yn llai, ac yn gwario £2 yn fwy y flwyddyn.
Well, unlike previous speakers to this statement, as the Minister will have anticipated from my question to the First Minister earlier on, my party will not be supporting this measure. That’s not to say that we don’t support the aim, which is to cut the problems that flow from excessive drinking. But we do not think that this measure is likely to achieve that, and even to the extent that it does, it will do so with the effect of imposing unacceptable costs upon the overwhelming majority of people who drink, like myself, who are not regarded as problem drinkers. Well, others may regard me as a problem, but that would be for different reasons than drink.
Will she confirm the figures that are quoted on the BBC website about the impact of this measure—that it is, under a 50p formula, likely to increase the price of a typical can of cider to £1, a bottle of wine to at least £4.69, and a typical litre of vodka to more than £20? Because I think it is vitally important that the public at large realise now, before we even begin debating this measure properly, what the likely impact of it is likely to be. The Minister says that it’s aimed at problem drinkers, not at the general population at large, but these are the people who are least likely to be affected by a minimum price for alcohol, not the people who are most likely to be affected. We know from research that has been done that what we might call problem drinkers are price sensitive between brands, so that if you increase the price of one, they’ll switch to another, but there’s no real evidence whatsoever for showing that they will reduce their consumption of alcohol overall, still less become teetotallers. The price elasticity demand for a real problem drinker is almost by definition zero. It will have no impact upon his or her drinking.
One of the issues that is important, of course, is the public order implications of excessive drinking, especially in city centres. We all know the problems of the war zones in city centres on Friday and Saturday nights. So, what matters is not so much the overall consumption of alcohol—you can be a non-drinker for five days of the week and a binge drinker at the weekend. You can have a drink after work and a pleasant conversation and then go home for five days a week and then decide to get hammered at the weekend. This measure is not likely to have the slightest impact I think upon binge drinkers, who are there for that specific purpose. They want to get hammered, and the difference of a few pounds is very unlikely to make any difference to their social behaviour.
The Minister has mentioned international evidence for the claims that she’s made. I am actually not aware of any evidence internationally and academically on this specific problem of the impact of minimum prices upon problem drinkers. It is very important not to make the logical fallacy of post hoc ergo propter hoc and look at the health statistics on the one hand and then ascribe them to legislative measures that might have taken place as though there are no other factors that might have influenced them. We know that in recent years there has been significant reduction in the problems created by alcohol. This is certainly the case in Scotland. Nobody can prove—and indeed I think it isn’t even logical—that the minimum price legislation that the Scottish Government would like to see has been responsible for that.
As regards the Canadian example, which is specifically mentioned in this statement, Canada is a very, very different market from Britain because virtually all liquor that is sold in Canada is state controlled or state regulated in a way it certainly isn’t in this country. They don’t have a minimum price system such as the one that is being proposed anyway. They have a reference price system that is different for different drinks, and different in different provinces of Canada. So, it’s very, very difficult, from the Canadian evidence, insofar as it’s undisputed, to draw any conclusions for the type of legislation that is now being proposed for here in Wales.
There is another aspect that nobody else has mentioned so far this afternoon: Wales has a long border and a lot of people live quite close to it. Particularly in north-east Wales, Chester and Liverpool are right on the doorstep, what is the impact that this is going to have upon sellers of alcohol in areas like that? It would be very easy, especially now we can order online, to order from, say, Sainsbury’s across the border in England and have it delivered in Wales. The minimum price legislation that is proposed here isn’t going to apply to that.
So, for a variety of reasons, which we’ll follow up in more detail when this Bill comes to be debated in due course, there are flaws in the logic behind it that undermine its very purpose. What we should be looking at is how to take measures to combat the ill-effects upon society, and indeed upon individuals, of excessive alcohol consumption, but not to penalise the many in order to try and fail to help the few.
Wel, yn wahanol i siaradwyr blaenorol i’r datganiad hwn, fel y bydd y Gweinidog wedi’i ragweld o fy nghwestiwn i’r Prif Weinidog yn gynharach, ni fydd fy mhlaid yn cefnogi’r mesur hwn. Nid yw hynny’n golygu nad ydym ni’n cefnogi’r nod, sef lleihau’r problemau sy’n deillio o yfed yn ormodol. Ond nid ydym ni o’r farn bod y mesur hwn yn debygol o gyflawni hynny, a hyd yn oed i’r graddau y mae yn gwneud hynny, effaith gwneud hynny fydd gorfodi costau annerbyniol ar y mwyafrif llethol o bobl sy’n yfed, fel fi, nad ydynt yn cael eu hystyried yn yfwyr â phroblem. Wel, efallai fod eraill yn fy ystyried i’n broblem, ond byddai hynny am resymau gwahanol, nid diod.
A wnaiff hi gadarnhau’r ffigurau a ddyfynnir ar wefan y BBC ynghylch effaith y mesur hwn—ei fod, yn ôl fformiwla 50c, yn debygol o gynyddu pris can nodweddiadol o seidr i £1, potel o win i o leiaf £4.69, a litr o fodca nodweddiadol i fwy nag £20? Oherwydd, yn fy marn i, mae’n hollbwysig bod y cyhoedd yn sylweddoli yn awr, cyn i ni ddechrau trafod y mesur hwn yn iawn hyd yn oed, pa effaith debygol y mae’n debygol o’i chael. Mae’r Gweinidog yn dweud ei fod wedi’i anelu at yfwyr â phroblem, nid at y boblogaeth gyffredinol, ond dyma’r bobl y mae’r isafbris am alcohol yn lleiaf tebygol o’u heffeithio, nid y bobl sydd fwyaf tebygol o gael eu heffeithio. Rydym ni’n gwybod o ymchwil a wnaethpwyd bod y rhai a alwn yn yfwyr â phroblem yn sensitif o ran prisiau rhwng brandiau, felly os byddwch chi’n cynyddu pris un, byddan nhw’n newid i un arall, ond nid oes unrhyw dystiolaeth wirioneddol o gwbl dros ddangos y byddan nhw’n lleihau eu defnydd o alcohol yn gyffredinol, a llai fyth i ddod yn llwyrymwrthodwyr. Mae’r galw am elastigedd pris i yfwr â phroblem wirioneddol, bron yn ôl diffiniad yn sero. Ni fydd yn cael unrhyw effaith ar faint y mae’n yfed.
Un o’r materion sy’n bwysig, wrth gwrs, yw goblygiadau yfed gormodol o ran trefn gyhoeddus, yn enwedig yng nghanol dinasoedd. Mae pob un ohonom yn gwybod am broblemau’r parthau rhyfel yng nghanol dinasoedd ar nosweithiau Gwener a Sadwrn. Felly, yr hyn sy’n bwysig, yn fwy nag yfed alcohol yn gyffredinol—gallwch beidio ag yfed am bum diwrnod yr wythnos a goryfed mewn pyliau ar y penwythnos. Gallwch chi gael diod ar ôl gwaith a sgwrsio’n hamddenol ac yna mynd adref am bum niwrnod yr wythnos ac wedyn penderfynu meddwi’n gaib ar y penwythnos. Nid yw’r mesur hwn yn debygol o gael unrhyw effaith, yn fy marn i, ar y rhai sy’n goryfed mewn pyliau, sydd yno at y diben penodol hwnnw. Maen nhw eisiau meddwi’n gaib, ac nid yw’r gwahaniaeth o ychydig bunnoedd yn debygol iawn o wneud unrhyw wahaniaeth i’w hymddygiad cymdeithasol.
Mae’r Gweinidog wedi sôn am dystiolaeth ryngwladol o’r honiadau y mae wedi’u gwneud. Nid wyf i mewn gwirionedd yn ymwybodol o unrhyw dystiolaeth ryngwladol ac academaidd o’r broblem benodol hon o effaith isafbrisiau ar yfwyr â phroblem. Mae’n bwysig iawn peidio â gwneud camsyniad rhesymegol post hoc ergo propter hoc ac edrych ar yr ystadegau iechyd ar yr un llaw ac yna eu cymhwyso i fesurau deddfwriaethol a allai fod wedi digwydd fel pe na byddai unrhyw ffactorau eraill a allai fod wedi dylanwadu arnynt. Gwyddom, yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf, fod y problemau a grëwyd gan alcohol wedi gostwng yn sylweddol. Mae hyn yn sicr yn wir yn yr Alban. Ni all neb brofi—ac yn wir, rwy’n credu nad yw hyd yn oed yn rhesymegol—mai’r ddeddfwriaeth isafbris yr hoffai Llywodraeth yr Alban ei gweld a fu’n gyfrifol am hynny.
O ran enghraifft Canada, a grybwyllir yn benodol yn y datganiad hwn, mae Canada yn farchnad wahanol iawn, iawn i Brydain gan fod yr holl wirodydd, bron, a gaiff eu gwerthu yng Nghanada yn cael eu rheoli gan y wladwriaeth neu eu rheoleiddio gan y wladwriaeth mewn modd nad ydyw yn y wlad hon, yn sicr. Nid oes ganddynt system isafbris fel yr un sy’n cael ei chynnig beth bynnag. Mae ganddynt system brisiau cyfeirio sy’n wahanol i wahanol ddiodydd, ac yn wahanol mewn gwahanol daleithiau yng Nghanada. Felly, mae’n anodd iawn, iawn o dystiolaeth Canada, i’r graddau y mae’n ddiamheuol, tynnu unrhyw gasgliadau ar gyfer y math o ddeddfwriaeth sydd bellach yn cael ei chynnig yma yng Nghymru.
Mae agwedd arall nad oes neb arall wedi’i chrybwyll hyd yn hyn y prynhawn yma: mae gan Gymru ffin hir ac mae llawer o bobl yn byw yn eithaf agos ati. Yn arbennig yn y gogledd-ddwyrain, mae Caer a Lerpwl ar garreg y drws, pa effaith y bydd hyn yn ei chael ar werthwyr alcohol mewn ardaloedd fel hyn? Byddai’n hawdd iawn, yn enwedig yn awr pan allwn archebu ar-lein, archebu, o Sainsbury’s dyweder ar draws y ffin yn Lloegr a’i threfnu ei ddanfon yng Nghymru. Ni fydd y ddeddfwriaeth isafbrisiau a gynigir yma yn berthnasol i hynny.
Felly, am amryw o resymau, y byddwn yn eu nodi’n fanylach pan gaiff y Bil hwn ei drafod maes o law, mae diffygion yn y rhesymeg y tu ôl iddo sy’n tanseilio ei union ddiben. Yr hyn y dylem ni fod yn ei ystyried yw sut i gymryd camau i fynd i’r afael ag effeithiau anffafriol yfed gormod o alcohol ar gymdeithas, ac yn wir ar unigolion, ond peidio â chosbi’r mwyafrif i geisio a methu â helpu’r lleiafrif.
I thank you very much for those questions and I do look forward to continued robust discussion and debate as the Bill moves forward to the scrutiny stages, and I’m sure that we’ll certainly be having a strong discussion in terms of the evidence base that underpins the proposals that we are making.
I think it’s fair to say that it is a novel approach, and I think that we both would recognise that. We have evidence that, where alcohol price has increased and that increase has been passed on to individuals, then consumption does decrease and alcohol-related harms further decrease. That’s the evidence that we have and I think that’s quite compelling evidence.
However, as I say, we recognise this is a quite radical and novel approach, so we have committed to publishing, after a period of five years, a report on the operation and the effect of the Act during that period. And, we’ll be commissioning a full evaluation and review of the impacts of minimum unit pricing in Wales, monitoring a wide variety of indicators where we would hope to see changes, such as the number of hospital admissions as a result of alcohol misuse, deaths from alcohol, longer term reductions in cirrhosis, and others of the measurable health issues that are attributable to alcohol.
But, we’ve also included in the legislation a sunset clause as well, because we want to make sure that the legislation is delivering what we want it to achieve. As we know, the Scottish Government passed their Act in 2012, but they haven’t been able to bring it into force. So, you’re quite right in saying that no other country in the UK has implemented a minimum unit price for alcohol. Based on what other countries tell us, we are confident that it will deliver significant health gains, but, as I say, we do need to be confident that the legislation is working, so the sunset clause is inserted within the Bill.
You asked me to confirm the prices of alcohol quoted on the BBC website if the minimum unit price was set at 50p, and of course it will be set through regulations that will be coming before the Assembly in due course, should the Bill pass through the Assembly. A bottle of wine at £4.49 would contain the best part of nine units, so, yes, that would be correct. A pint of lager, for example, would contain two units, so, again, 50p times two, so we would have £1 for that. And the bottle of spirits that is quoted on the website is actually a litre bottle, so that would be selling for £20, whereas I think most people tend to buy spirits in smaller bottles than litre bottles.
The cross-border issues that you describe are ones that we’re very alive to as well. We do know that different regimes in England and Wales could have an impact on consumer behaviour, but that really would depend on people’s willingness and their ability to travel, along with, really, the price differential compared to the cost of the transport that they would have to incur as well. Cross-border shopping already exists, as we know, but we believe the impact of introducing a minimum unit price will be minimal, and this is because, for the majority of the Welsh population, purchasing in England would incur a cost in time and travel and the cost is likely to outweigh any savings on the price of alcohol. Actually people who do consume alcohol at harmful and hazardous levels are tending to be purchasing alcohol for immediate consumption, so that would obviously reduce the incentive to be travelling as well.
The First Minister’s clear that this is primarily a piece of public health legislation. However, there are potential impacts elsewhere, and we do anticipate that it will have an impact on crime. For example, a 50p minimum unit price was estimated to result in a 4.7 per cent reduction in violent crime, a 4.6 per cent reduction in criminal damage, and a 4.6 per cent reduction in robbery, burglary and theft as well. So, benefits beyond just the physical benefits.
And to return to the first point you made, which was the one about people who live in poverty and people on low incomes being affected by this legislation: people who live in poverty are much more likely to be abstaining from any alcohol at all and much more likely to be consuming alcohol at low levels. The research does suggest that for people who are harmful and hazardous drinkers, people who are on a low income or living in deprived areas are more likely to suffer from a long-term illness as a result of drinking too much alcohol, and so a minimum unit price can potentially reduce the levels of harmful and hazardous drinking in these communities, meaning the risk of alcohol-related harm would be reduced as well. A very stark statistic that I came across in preparing for this Bill was that in recent years, alcohol-attributable mortality rates in the most deprived communities for males are three times higher than in the least deprived areas, and that, to me, says that this legislation provides us with an opportunity to address what is a very strong issue of health inequality. I don’t think it’s okay that we should accept poorer health outcomes for people who live in our poorer communities.
Diolch yn fawr iawn am y cwestiynau hynny ac rwy’n edrych ymlaen at drafod a dadlau cadarn parhaus wrth i’r Bil fynd rhagddi i’r camau craffu, ac rwy’n siŵr y byddwn yn sicr yn cael trafodaeth gref o ran y dystiolaeth sy’n sail i’r cynigion yr ydym yn eu gwneud.
Credaf ei bod yn deg dweud ei fod yn ddull newydd, ac rwy’n credu y byddem ni’n dau yn cydnabod hynny. Mae gennym dystiolaeth, pan fo pris alcohol wedi cynyddu a bod y cynnydd hwnnw wedi’i drosglwyddo i unigolion, yna mae’r defnydd yn lleihau ac mae niwed sy’n gysylltiedig ag alcohol yn gostwng ymhellach. Dyna’r dystiolaeth sydd gennym ac rwy’n credu bod honno’n dystiolaeth eithaf cymhellol.
Fodd bynnag, fel y dywedais, rydym yn cydnabod bod hwn yn ddull eithaf radical a newydd, felly rydym wedi ymrwymo i gyhoeddi adroddiad, ar ôl cyfnod o bum mlynedd, ar weithrediad ac effaith y Ddeddf yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw. A, byddwn yn comisiynu gwerthusiad ac adolygiad llawn o effeithiau gosod isafbris uned yng Nghymru, gan fonitro amrywiaeth eang o ddangosyddion lle byddem yn gobeithio gweld newidiadau, megis nifer y derbyniadau i’r ysbyty o ganlyniad i gamddefnyddio alcohol, marwolaethau o alcohol, gostyngiadau hirdymor mewn sirosis, ac eraill o’r materion iechyd mesuradwy y gellir eu priodoli i alcohol.
Ond, rydym ni wedi cynnwys cymal machlud yn y ddeddfwriaeth hefyd, oherwydd ein bod yn awyddus i sicrhau bod y ddeddfwriaeth yn cyflawni’r hyn yr ydym ni’n dymuno iddi ei gyflawni. Fel y gwyddom, pasiodd Llywodraeth yr Alban ei Deddf yn 2012, ond nid ydynt wedi gallu dod â hi i rym. Felly, rydych chi’n iawn i ddweud nad oes unrhyw wlad arall yn y DU wedi gweithredu isafbris uned am alcohol. Ar sail yr hyn y mae gwledydd eraill yn ei ddweud wrthym, rydym yn hyderus y bydd yn sicrhau enillion iechyd sylweddol, ond, fel y dywedais, mae angen i ni fod yn hyderus bod y ddeddfwriaeth yn gweithio, felly mae’r cymal machlud wedi’i osod yn y Bil.
Gwnaethoch chi ofyn i mi gadarnhau’r prisiau alcohol a ddyfynnir ar wefan y BBC pe byddai’r isafbris uned yn cael ei osod ar 50c, ac wrth gwrs bydd yn cael ei osod trwy reoliadau a fydd yn dod gerbron y Cynulliad maes o law, pe byddai’r Bil yn pasio trwy’r Cynulliad. Byddai potel o win ar £4.49 yn cynnwys y rhan orau o naw uned, felly, ie, byddai hynny’n gywir. Byddai peint o lager, er enghraifft, yn cynnwys dwy uned, felly, unwaith eto, 50c wedi’i luosi â dau, felly byddem yn cael £1 am hynny. Ac mae’r botel o wirod a ddyfynnir ar y wefan yn botel litr mewn gwirionedd, felly byddai honno’n gwerthu am £20, ond rwy’n credu bod y rhan fwyaf o bobl yn tueddu i brynu gwirodydd mewn poteli llai na photeli litr.
Mae’r materion trawsffiniol yr ydych chi’n eu disgrifio yn rhai yr ydym yn ymwybodol iawn ohonynt hefyd. Rydym yn gwybod y gallai cyfundrefnau gwahanol yng Nghymru a Lloegr effeithio ar ymddygiad defnyddwyr, ond byddai hynny’n dibynnu yn llwyr ar barodrwydd pobl a’u gallu i deithio, ynghyd â, mewn gwirionedd, y gwahaniaeth mewn pris o’i gymharu â chost y cludiant y byddai hyn yn ei achosi hefyd. Mae siopa trawsffiniol eisoes yn bodoli, fel y gwyddom, ond rydym ni’n credu y bydd effaith cyflwyno isafbris uned yn fach iawn, ac mae hyn oherwydd, yn achos y rhan fwyaf o boblogaeth Cymru, byddai prynu yn Lloegr yn golygu cost o ran amser a theithio ac mae’r gost yn debygol o fod yn fwy nag unrhyw gynilion ar bris alcohol. Yn wir, mae pobl sy’n yfed alcohol ar lefelau niweidiol a pheryglus yn tueddu i brynu alcohol i’w yfed ar unwaith, felly byddai hynny’n amlwg yn lleihau’r cymhelliant i deithio hefyd.
Mae’r Prif Weinidog yn glir mai darn o ddeddfwriaeth iechyd y cyhoedd yw hwn yn bennaf. Fodd bynnag, mae effeithiau posibl mewn mannau eraill, ac rydym yn rhagweld y bydd yn effeithio ar lefelau troseddu. Er enghraifft, amcangyfrifwyd y byddai isafbris uned o 50c yn arwain at ostyngiad o 4.7 y cant mewn troseddau treisgar, gostyngiad o 4.6 y cant mewn difrod troseddol, a gostyngiad o 4.6 y cant mewn lladrata, bwrgleriaeth a dwyn hefyd. Felly, mae’r buddion y tu hwnt i’r manteision corfforol yn unig.
Ac i ddychwelyd at y pwynt cyntaf y gwnaethoch chi, sef yr un am bobl sy’n byw mewn tlodi a phobl ar incwm isel y mae’r ddeddfwriaeth hon yn effeithio arnynt: mae pobl sy’n byw mewn tlodi yn llawer mwy tebygol o ymatal rhag unrhyw alcohol o gwbl ac yn llawer mwy tebygol o fod yn yfed alcohol ar lefelau isel. Mae’r ymchwil yn awgrymu, i bobl sy’n yfwyr niweidiol a pheryglus, bod pobl sydd ar incwm isel neu sy’n byw mewn ardaloedd o amddifadedd yn fwy tebygol o ddioddef salwch hirdymor o ganlyniad i yfed gormod o alcohol, felly gall isafbris uned, o bosibl, leihau lefelau yfed niweidiol a pheryglus yn y cymunedau hyn, sy’n golygu y bydd y perygl o niwed sy’n gysylltiedig ag alcohol yn lleihau hefyd. Ystadegyn llwm iawn a ddaeth i law wrth baratoi ar gyfer y Bil hwn oedd bod cyfraddau marwolaethau y gellir eu priodoli i alcohol yn y cymunedau o amddifadedd mwyaf ar gyfer dynion dair gwaith yn uwch nag yn yr ardaloedd o amddifadedd lleiaf, ac mae hynny, i mi, yn dweud bod y ddeddfwriaeth hon yn rhoi cyfle inni roi sylw i fater cryf iawn o anghydraddoldeb iechyd. Nid wyf i’n credu ei bod yn iawn i ni dderbyn canlyniadau iechyd gwaeth i bobl sy’n byw yn ein cymunedau tlotaf.
I very much support the Bill because of the, I think, considerable range of harms that alcohol abuse and problem drinking are responsible for in Wales: health; working days lost, so the economic impact; and, indeed, the sort of society we are and the cultural aspects of that. I very much take on board what the Minister has just said that it is a health inequality issue as well. We know that there’s a big gap in life expectancy and healthy life expectancy between our most affluent communities and our poorest communities, and health impacts from alcohol abuse and, indeed, smoking are a considerable part of that. We’ve taken action on smoking, we continue to do so. We need to take further action, I believe, on problem drinking as well.
I think we’re all familiar with some of the problems around binge drinking, for example. I’ve heard many visitors to Wales remark on what they see as a horror scene in our cities and town centres on Friday and Saturday nights, for example, with the binge drinking that takes place. I do believe that this legislation could have a positive impact on that problem, because I think, again, we should all be familiar with the so-called pre-loading that takes place, where there’s a lot of purchasing of strong and cheap alcohol from supermarkets, from corner shops, which is then consumed before going out to pubs and clubs. So, I do think we could have a very positive impact on some of those anti-social behaviour issues from this measure.
And, of course, it’s strongly supported by those with experience and expertise in delivering services around alcohol abuse. Alcohol Concern Cymru, for example, in response to this statement today, provided a briefing strongly supporting the legislation and pointing out, for example, that they did some shopping recently and found, in corner shops and supermarkets, for example, 3 litres of strong cider for sale for £3.99, a unit price of 18p; 70 cl of fortified wine for £2.99, a unit price of 27p; and 70 cl of vodka and gin on sale for £10, a unit price of 38p. Those are the sorts of products that are purchased and pre-loading then follows.
Kaleidoscope, for example, in my constituency, an organisation that provides very valuable services to those who have problems with alcohol abuse, again strongly support this legislation. They say that, in their experience, there are a great deal of problems around domestic violence, driving accidents and anti-social behaviour from strong and cheap alcohol. I think that support from Alcohol Concern Cymru and Kaleidoscope is very indicative of wider support from those agencies that are tasked with dealing with the problems that arise from the sale of strong and cheap alcohol.
Also, I think it’s quite interesting that Public Health England supports minimum unit pricing, and I think it’s a great shame that the UK Government isn’t paying more attention to what Public Health England want to see and the evidence that they provide.
So, in short, Llywydd, I strongly support this legislation. I’m very pleased that Welsh Government and the Minister are bringing it forward, and I look forward to its successful passage through the Assembly and the benefits—health, economic, social and cultural—that it will bring.
Rwy’n cefnogi’r Bil yn fawr iawn oherwydd, yn fy marn i, yr amrediad sylweddol o niwed y mae camddefnyddio alcohol a phroblemau yfed yn gyfrifol amdanynt yng Nghymru: iechyd; diwrnodau gwaith a gollir, felly'r effaith economaidd; ac, yn wir, y math o gymdeithas yr ydym ni ac agweddau diwylliannol hynny. Rwy’n derbyn yn llwyr yr hyn y mae’r Gweinidog newydd ei ddweud ei fod yn fater anghydraddoldeb iechyd hefyd. Gwyddom fod bwlch mawr mewn disgwyliad oes a disgwyliad oes iach rhwng ein cymunedau mwyaf cyfoethog a’n cymunedau tlotaf, ac mae’r effeithiau ar iechyd yn sgil camddefnyddio alcohol ac, yn wir, ysmygu yn rhan sylweddol o hynny. Rydym ni wedi cymryd camau ar ysmygu, ac rydym ni’n parhau i wneud hynny. Mae angen i ni gymryd camau pellach, yn fy marn i, o ran problemau yfed hefyd.
Rwy’n credu ein bod ni i gyd yn gyfarwydd â rhai o’r problemau sy’n ymwneud â goryfed mewn pyliau, er enghraifft. Rwyf wedi clywed llawer o ymwelwyr i Gymru yn sylwi ar yr hyn y maen nhw’n yn ei weld fel golygfa arswydus yn ein dinasoedd a chanol trefi ar nosweithiau Gwener a Sadwrn, er enghraifft, gyda’r goryfed sy’n digwydd. Rwy’n credu y gallai’r ddeddfwriaeth hon gael effaith gadarnhaol ar y broblem honno, oherwydd credaf, unwaith eto, y dylem i gyd fod yn gyfarwydd â’r hyn a elwir yn yfed cyn mynd allan, lle mae llawer o brynu alcohol cryf a rhad o archfarchnadoedd, o siopau cornel, a ddefnyddir wedyn cyn mynd allan i dafarndai a chlybiau. Felly, rwy’n credu y gallem ni gael effaith gadarnhaol iawn ar rai o’r problemau ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol hynny o’r mesur hwn.
Ac, wrth gwrs, mae’n cael ei gefnogi’n gryf gan y rhai sydd â phrofiad ac arbenigedd o ddarparu gwasanaethau yn ymwneud â chamddefnyddio alcohol. Darparwyd briff gan Alcohol Concern Cymru, er enghraifft, mewn ymateb i’r datganiad hwn heddiw, a oedd yn gefnogol iawn i’r ddeddfwriaeth ac yn nodi, er enghraifft, eu bod wedi gwneud rhywfaint o siopa yn ddiweddar a chanfod, mewn siopau cornel ac archfarchnadoedd, er enghraifft, 3 litr o seidr cryf ar werth am £3.99, pris uned o 18c; 70 cl o win cyfnerthedig am £2.99, pris uned o 27c; a 70 cl o fodca a gin ar werth am £10, pris uned o 38c. Dyna’r mathau o gynhyrchion sy’n cael eu prynu ac yna mae yfed cyn mynd allan yn dilyn.
Mae Kaleidoscope, er enghraifft, yn fy etholaeth i, sefydliad sy’n darparu gwasanaethau gwerthfawr iawn i’r rheiny sydd â phroblemau camddefnyddio alcohol, unwaith eto yn cefnogi’r ddeddfwriaeth hon yn gryf. Maen nhw’n dweud bod llawer iawn o broblemau yn ymwneud â thrais domestig, damweiniau gyrru ac ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol yn dirwyn o alcohol cryf a rhad yn eu profiad nhw. Rwy’n credu bod cefnogaeth gan Alcohol Concern Cymru a Kaleidoscope yn arwyddocaol iawn o gefnogaeth ehangach gan yr asiantaethau hynny sydd â’r dasg o ymdrin â’r problemau sy’n codi o werthu alcohol cryf a rhad.
Hefyd, rwy’n credu ei bod yn eithaf diddorol bod Public Health England yn cefnogi isafbris uned, ac rwy’n credu ei fod yn drueni mawr nad yw Llywodraeth y DU yn rhoi mwy o sylw i beth mae Public Health England eisiau ei weld a’r dystiolaeth y mae’n ei darparu.
Felly, yn fyr, Llywydd, rwy’n cefnogi’r ddeddfwriaeth hon yn gryf. Rwy’n falch iawn bod Llywodraeth Cymru a’r Gweinidog yn ei dwyn ymlaen, ac edrychaf ymlaen at ei hynt lwyddiannus drwy’r Cynulliad a’r buddion—iechyd, economaidd, cymdeithasol a diwylliannol—y bydd yn eu cyflwyno.
Thank you very much for those comments and for reminding us at the start of your contribution about the importance of this legislation in terms of tackling health inequalities in Wales, and also some of the health benefits that we would expect to see from the legislation, not least saving 50 or more lives a year as a result of the legislation and 1,400 fewer hospital admissions in Wales as a result of alcohol as well.
You referred to binge drinking, and I think that it’s important to see this piece of legislation within the wider context of our work on the night-time economy. I recently attended a unit in Swansea to launch our night-time economy framework, and that’s about all of the partners involved in the night-time economy working hand in hand to support people and to ensure people’s safety and ensure safe drinking levels and so on. I think that this piece of legislation can help us do that, partly because it also includes specific action in there to address drinks promotions as well. We know that this can be a particular issue in the night-time economy.
It also addresses special offers in relation to multi-buys of alcohol and in relation to the supply of alcohol with goods and services, including buy-one-get-one-free offers and so on. It also sets out how the applicable minimum price under which alcohol can’t be sold should be calculated where the supply of alcohol forms part of a special offer, for example, dining for however much and so on. So, there are opportunities, I think, within the legislation to ensure that we capture all of these different ways in which there’s a potential for selling alcohol underneath the minimum unit price.
Diolch yn fawr iawn am y sylwadau hynny ac am ein hatgoffa ar ddechrau eich cyfraniad am bwysigrwydd y ddeddfwriaeth hon o ran mynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldebau iechyd yng Nghymru, a hefyd rhai o’r manteision iechyd y byddem yn disgwyl eu gweld o’r ddeddfwriaeth, yn arbennig achub o leiaf 50 o fywydau neu fwy y flwyddyn o ganlyniad i’r ddeddfwriaeth a 1,400 yn llai o dderbyniadau i’r ysbyty yng Nghymru o ganlyniad i alcohol hefyd.
Cyfeiriasoch at oryfed mewn pyliau, a chredaf ei bod yn bwysig gweld y ddeddfwriaeth hon o fewn cyd-destun ehangach ein gwaith ar economi’r nos. Yn ddiweddar, es i i uned yn Abertawe i lansio ein fframwaith economi’r nos, ac mae hynny’n ymwneud â phob un o’r partneriaid sy’n rhan o economi’r nos yn gweithio law yn llaw i gefnogi pobl ac i sicrhau diogelwch pobl a sicrhau lefelau yfed diogel ac ati. Rwy’n credu y gall y darn hwn o ddeddfwriaeth ein helpu i wneud hynny, yn rhannol oherwydd ei fod hefyd yn cynnwys camau penodol i fynd i’r afael â mentrau hyrwyddo diodydd hefyd. Gwyddom y gall hyn fod yn broblem arbennig yn economi’r nos.
Mae hefyd yn mynd i’r afael â chynigion arbennig yn ymwneud ag aml brynu alcohol ac ynglŷn â chyflenwi alcohol gyda nwyddau a gwasanaethau, gan gynnwys cynigion prynu un a chael un am ddim ac ati. Mae hefyd yn nodi sut y dylid cyfrifo’r isafbris perthnasol na ellir gwerthu alcohol oddi tano lle mae’r cyflenwad alcohol yn rhan o gynnig arbennig, er enghraifft, cael pryd o fwyd am hyn a hyn ac ati. Felly, mae cyfleoedd, yn fy marn i, o fewn y ddeddfwriaeth i sicrhau ein bod yn dal yr holl ffyrdd gwahanol hyn lle mae potensial i werthu alcohol o dan yr isafbris uned.
Mae ychydig o bwyntiau gennyf i. Mi wnaf i gyfeirio at yr hyn glywsom ni gan Dai Lloyd, wrth gwrs, ynglŷn ag amseru cyflwyno hyn rŵan. Y ffaith ydy na fyddai hyn yn gallu cael ei wneud ar ôl i’r newidiadau ddod i rym dan y Ddeddf Cymru newydd, sy’n codi’r cwestiwn pam bod pleidiau eraill yn y lle yma wedi pleidleisio dros y Ddeddf honno. Mae Plaid Cymru, mewn sawl maniffesto, wedi cynnwys cyfeiriad tuag at gyflwyno trefn o’r fath yma, felly mae’n cefnogaeth ni yno.
Rydw i hefyd yn ymwybodol o’r pryderon sydd yna, ac mi ddylem ni i gyd fod yn sensitif i’r pryderon yna y gallai hwn, o beidio â’i gael o’n iawn, o bosib, gael effaith anghymesur neu ‘disproportionate’ ar yfwyr cymedrol gyda llai o arian i’w wario. Rydw i yn edrych ymlaen i glywed tystiolaeth wrth i hwn fynd drwy’r Senedd er mwyn tawelu pryderon pobl y tu allan yn bennaf, ond hefyd pobl i mewn yma yn y Senedd.
A couple of questions—. We’ve talked a lot about how, hopefully, this can drive a change of behaviour amongst consumers. We know from evidence relating to sugar levies—pop taxes, if you like—globally, that manufacturers have often responded by reducing the sugar content of their drinks, for example. Can I just ask what assessment has been made by Government of the possibility, the likelihood, that some manufacturers will actually try to achieve a lower alcohol content within their drinks? Because we’re a market of 3 million—if Scotland does this, that’s another market of 5 million. It’s not a tiny market, and, certainly, in Singapore, I think, all the major drinks manufacturers came together to reduce sugar content in response to changes in legislation on sugary drinks. So, I wonder if the Government has made an assessment of that, because lowering the alcohol content of drinks would also have a beneficial effect.
Secondly, what assessment has been made of what happens if consumer behaviour doesn’t change as much as the Government envisages? Because you will know that, in Scotland, the Labour Party refused to support legislation on minimum alcohol pricing. So, politics does play a part in this, and the reason given by Scottish Labour, as I understand, is their concern about what would happen to a possible windfall for retailers or manufacturers of alcoholic drinks because they were charging more, because of legislation, for their product. So, what assessment, again, has the Government made of that and what would be the monitoring process? And what would be the actions that the Government would wish to see if, suddenly, retailers or manufacturers have a windfall?
Just a few points from me. I will refer to what we heard from Dai Lloyd on the timing of the introduction of this. The fact is that this couldn’t be done following the changes that will come into force under the new Wales Act, which raises the question of why other parties in this place voted in favour of that particular piece of legislation. Plaid Cymru, in several manifestos, has included references to introducing a system of this kind, and therefore our support is there for you.
I am also aware of the concerns that exist, and we should all be sensitive to those concerns that this, in not getting it right, could have a disproportionate impact on moderate drinkers who have less money to spend. I do look forward to hearing evidence as this goes through the Senedd in order to alleviate the concerns of people outside the Senedd mainly, but also people within the Senedd.
Cwestiwn neu ddau—. Rydym wedi siarad llawer am sut, gobeithio, y gall hyn ysgogi newid ymddygiad ymhlith defnyddwyr. Gwyddom o dystiolaeth sy’n ymwneud ag ardollau siwgr—trethi pop, os mynnwch chi—yn fyd-eang, bod gweithgynhyrchwyr yn aml wedi ymateb trwy leihau cynnwys siwgr eu diodydd, er enghraifft. A gaf i ofyn pa asesiad a wnaethpwyd gan y Llywodraeth o’r posibilrwydd, y tebygrwydd, y bydd rhai gweithgynhyrchwyr mewn gwirionedd yn ceisio sicrhau cynnwys alcohol is o fewn eu diodydd? Oherwydd rydym yn farchnad o 3 miliwn—os yw Alban yn gwneud hyn, dyna farchnad arall o 5 miliwn. Nid marchnad fach mohoni, ac, yn sicr, yn Singapore, rwy’n credu, bod yr holl weithgynhyrchwyr diodydd mawr wedi dod at ei gilydd i leihau cynnwys siwgr mewn ymateb i newidiadau mewn deddfwriaeth ar ddiodydd siwgr. Felly, tybed a yw’r Llywodraeth wedi gwneud asesiad o hynny, oherwydd byddai lleihau cynnwys alcohol mewn diodydd hefyd yn cael effaith fuddiol.
Yn ail, pa asesiad a wnaed o’r hyn sy’n digwydd os nad yw ymddygiad defnyddwyr yn newid cymaint ag y mae’r Llywodraeth yn ei ragweld? Oherwydd byddwch yn gwybod, yn yr Alban, gwrthododd y Blaid Lafur gefnogi’r ddeddfwriaeth ar isafbris alcohol. Felly, mae gwleidyddiaeth yn chwarae rhan yn hyn o beth, a’r rheswm a roddir gan Lafur yr Alban, fel y deallaf, yw eu pryder ynghylch yr hyn a fyddai’n digwydd i elw annisgwyl posibl i fanwerthwyr neu weithgynhyrchwyr diodydd alcoholig oherwydd eu bod yn codi mwy, oherwydd deddfwriaeth, am eu cynnyrch. Felly, pa asesiad, unwaith eto, y mae’r Llywodraeth wedi’i wneud o hynny a beth fyddai’r broses fonitro? A beth fyddai’r camau y byddai’r Llywodraeth yn dymuno eu gweld, os yw manwerthwyr neu weithgynhyrchwyr, yn sydyn, yn cael elw annisgwyl?
Thank you for those questions, and also for outlining your support for this particular approach through legislation. I referred earlier to the modelling work that has been undertaken, which demonstrates that moderate drinkers, for example, would only increase their spending by £2 a year, but would decrease their consumption by six units a year. And, as I say, we’re having that modelling work updated to take account of current market situations and also looking at the different differentials at different points between 35p and 70p. I think there is a great opportunity here for manufacturers in terms of producing lower strength alcohol drinks, and I would certainly want to see our fantastic Welsh drinks industry taking the opportunity for that as well. I’ve already had some discussions with some of the officials in the food division here as well to discuss what potential there is for the drinks industry here in Wales, which I know we’re all extremely proud of, and I’m sure that there are opportunities for them to be innovative and imaginative in terms of the opportunities available to them.
The impact on the industry, the retail industry—the minimum unit price is expected to lead to an overall increase in revenue for both off-trade and on-trade retailers, and it’s predicted that, for all minimum unit price scenarios modelled by the University of Sheffield, there would be increased revenue for the alcohol industry as a whole. I’m not sure to what extent it would be a windfall, given that we would expect, on the one hand, some levels of alcohol consumption to be dropping amongst those harmful and hazardous drinkers, and also overall amongst moderate drinkers by a smaller amount. However, I think that it would be an opportunity for us to look, with the refreshed modelling, to see what the differentials between that 35p and 70p would mean for the retailers. But, ultimately, it is very much a public health piece of legislation, although the First Minister did refer in his contribution in FMQs today that it does also provide opportunities and benefits for publicans.
The Institute of Alcohol Studies has published a recent report, entitled ‘Pubs Quizzed: What Publicans Think about Policy, Public Health and the Changing Trade’. And that was based on the results of a national survey of pub managers, which found that 83 per cent believe that supermarket alcohol is too cheap, and 41 per cent of them were in favour of minimum unit pricing, as opposed to just 22 per cent against.
Diolch am y cwestiynau yna, a hefyd am amlinellu eich cefnogaeth i’r dull penodol hwn trwy ddeddfwriaeth. Cyfeiriais yn gynharach at y gwaith modelu a wnaed, sy’n dangos y byddai yfwyr cymedrol, er enghraifft, ddim ond yn cynyddu eu gwariant gan £2 y flwyddyn, ond y byddent yn lleihau eu defnydd gan chwe uned y flwyddyn. Ac, fel y dywedais, rydym yn cael y gwaith modelu hwnnw wedi’i ddiweddaru i ystyried sefyllfaoedd cyfredol y farchnad a hefyd yn edrych ar y gwahanol wahaniaethau ar bwyntiau gwahanol rhwng 35c a 70c. Rwy’n credu bod cyfle gwych yn y fan yma i weithgynhyrchwyr o ran cynhyrchu diodydd alcohol cryfder is, a byddwn yn sicr eisiau gweld ein diwydiant diodydd gwych yng Nghymru yn manteisio ar y cyfle hwnnw hefyd. Rwyf eisoes wedi cael rhai trafodaethau gyda rhai o’r swyddogion yn yr adran fwyd yma hefyd i drafod pa botensial sydd ar gael i’r diwydiant diodydd yma yng Nghymru, y gwn ein bod ni i gyd yn falch iawn ohono, ac rwy’n siŵr bod cyfleoedd iddyn nhw fod yn arloesol a dychmygus o ran y cyfleoedd sydd ar gael iddynt.
Yr effaith ar y diwydiant, y diwydiant manwerthu—disgwylir i’r isafbris uned arwain at gynnydd cyffredinol mewn refeniw i fanwerthwyr allfasnach a mewnfasnach, a rhagwelir, ar gyfer pob sefyllfa isafbris uned sydd wedi’u modelu gan Brifysgol Sheffield, y byddai mwy o refeniw ar gyfer y diwydiant alcohol yn ei gyfanrwydd. Nid wyf yn siŵr i ba raddau y byddai’n elw annisgwyl, o gofio y byddem yn disgwyl, ar yr un llaw, i rai lefelau o yfed alcohol fod yn gostwng ymhlith yr yfwyr niweidiol a pheryglus hynny, a hefyd yn gyffredinol ymhlith yfwyr cymedrol i raddau llai. Fodd bynnag, credaf y byddai’n gyfle inni edrych, gyda’r modelu wedi’i adnewyddu, i weld beth fyddai’r gwahaniaethau rhwng y 35c a’r 70c hwnnw yn ei olygu ar gyfer y manwerthwyr. Ond, yn y pen draw, deddfwriaeth iechyd y cyhoedd yw hon, er bod y Prif Weinidog wedi cyfeirio yn ei gyfraniad yn y Cwestiynau i’r Prif Weinidog heddiw ei bod hefyd yn darparu cyfleoedd a buddion i dafarnwyr.
Mae’r Sefydliad Astudiaethau Alcohol wedi cyhoeddi adroddiad diweddar, o’r enw ‘Pubs Quizzed: What Publicans Think of Policy, Health Public and the Changing Trade’. Ac roedd hynny’n seiliedig ar ganlyniadau arolwg cenedlaethol o reolwyr tafarndai, a ganfu bod 83 y cant o’r farn bod alcohol archfarchnad yn rhy rhad, a 41 y cant ohonynt o blaid gosod isafbris uned, a chanfod mai dim ond 22 y cant oedd yn erbyn.
I find the glass-half-empty attitude of some Members a bit irritating. Because it’s really important that we seize the moment. The Government has moved its position from considering legislation to actually seizing the moment and doing it, and I’m very, very pleased to hear that.
I welcome the approach—the measured approach—from Angela Burns, and, indeed, Dai Lloyd, that we have to get on with this, because this is a really serious public health matter. This is the biggest killer of people between the ages of 15 and 49—not drugs, drink. And we absolutely have to address this. It is not acceptable that it’s more expensive to buy water than it is to buy alcohol. This is absolutely absurd. And it’s unacceptable that the supermarkets are using cheap alcohol to drive up their footfall. We should be acting against this, and we have to prevent it.
We’ve seen from Canada—. Unlike Neil Hamilton—clearly, his alcohol consumption isn’t going to change one iota as a result of this, but that doesn’t matter. The point is we have to try and ensure that people will be influenced by the price to buy less of it, and not to go to supermarkets that are being irresponsible in the way they peddle it. So, we’ve seen from Canada that the systematic implementation and rigorous enforcement of this minimum alcohol pricing actually has worked, because it’s seen a very considerable reduction in the hospital admissions and alcohol-related deaths. So, I hope that the Health and Social Care Committee will learn from the Canadian experience to avoid the unforeseen consequences that Dai Lloyd explained.
And we have to recognise that the last four budgets have actually cut taxes on alcohol, which is in my view not the right direction at all. I’d like to see the reinstatement of the duty escalator. But just because we can’t influence what the UK Parliament gets up to is not a reason for us doing nothing. And I hope that, collectively, we will get on and produce this legislation to beat the deadline of the Wales Act.
Rwy’n gweld agwedd gwydr hanner gwag rhai Aelodau braidd yn ddiflas. Oherwydd mae’n bwysig iawn ein bod ni’n manteisio ar y cyfle. Mae’r Llywodraeth wedi newid ei safbwynt o fod yn ystyried deddfwriaeth i fanteisio mewn gwirionedd ar y cyfle a’i wneud, ac rwy’n falch iawn o glywed hynny.
Rwy’n croesawu’r ymagwedd—yr ymagwedd bwyllog—gan Angela Burns, ac, yn wir, Dai Lloyd, bod yn rhaid inni symud ymlaen â hyn, oherwydd mae hwn yn fater iechyd y cyhoedd difrifol iawn. Dyma’r lladdwr mwyaf o bobl rhwng 15 a 49 oed, nid cyffuriau, diod. Ac mae’n rhaid i ni fynd i’r afael â hyn yn bendant. Nid yw’n dderbyniol ei bod yn ddrutach prynu dŵr na phrynu alcohol. Mae hyn yn gwbl hurt. Ac mae’n annerbyniol bod yr archfarchnadoedd yn defnyddio alcohol rhad i ysgogi nifer eu cwsmeriaid. Dylem fod yn gweithredu yn erbyn hyn, ac mae’n rhaid inni ei atal.
Rydym wedi gweld o Ganada—. Yn wahanol i Neil Hamilton—yn amlwg, nid yw faint o alcohol y mae ef yn ei yfed yn mynd i newid o gwbl o ganlyniad i hyn, ond nid yw hynny’n bwysig. Y pwynt yw bod yn rhaid inni geisio sicrhau y bydd pobl yn cael eu dylanwadu gan y pris i brynu llai ohono, ac i beidio â mynd i archfarchnadoedd sy’n anghyfrifol yn y modd y maent yn ei werthu. Felly, rydym wedi gweld o Ganada bod y gweithredu systematig a’r gorfodi cadarn ar yr isafbris alcohol mewn gwirionedd wedi gweithio, gan ei fod wedi gweld gostyngiad sylweddol iawn yn y derbyniadau i’r ysbyty a marwolaethau sy’n gysylltiedig ag alcohol. Felly, rwy’n gobeithio y bydd y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol yn dysgu o brofiad Canada i osgoi’r canlyniadau annisgwyl a esboniodd Dai Lloyd.
Ac mae’n rhaid inni gydnabod bod y pedair cyllideb ddiwethaf wedi torri trethi ar alcohol mewn gwirionedd, nad yw, yn fy marn i, yn mynd i’r cyfeiriad cywir o gwbl. Hoffwn weld adfer y doll codi prisiau. Ond nid yw’r ffaith na allwn ddylanwadu ar yr hyn y mae Senedd y DU yn ei wneud yn rheswm i ni wneud dim. Ac rwy’n gobeithio, ar y cyd, y byddwn yn bwrw ymlaen ac yn cynhyrchu’r ddeddfwriaeth hon i ragori ar ddyddiad cau Deddf Cymru.
I thank you very much for those comments. And, of course, Jenny Rathbone has long been a proponent of this particular approach, and has lobbied the Government very strongly on this particular issue as well. So, I thank you for the work that you’ve been doing in preparation for this, for the introduction of the Bill.
And you make an important point, which I think has been lost in a lot of the debate that we’ve had over the last 48 hours on the issue of minimum unit pricing, that it is very much about prevention and early intervention. Of course, you mentioned young people, and young people, especially those who drink heavily or frequently, have been shown to be particularly sensitive to price rises, and in particular there is evidence that demonstrates a relationship between drink prices and the heavy prevalence of drinking, and particularly pre-loading, amongst young people. So, I think that this legislation provides us with a good opportunity to take that preventative approach and allow young people to start their lives with a more healthy relationship with alcohol. Because we know that the recent health behaviour in school-age children survey data showed that drinking amongst young people should remain a concern for us, with 7 per cent of boys and 5 per cent of girls aged 11 to 16 in Wales drinking alcohol at least once a week. And the proportions get higher as the age of those children and young people gets higher as well.
We need to ensure that, for those young people who do begin to misuse substances at an early point in their lives, there is early intervention and early identification available to them in order to limit harm and minimise the chances of misusing alcohol and drugs in future. And that’s one of the reasons why we see this piece of legislation very much within a wider context of the support that we should offer to people in that preventative agenda, and that supporting agenda, if and when young people become involved in drugs and alcohol, and we do ensure that we have a range of services available. For example, we have counselling, emotional well-being—hidden harm services are very important, and those are services for children and young people impacted upon by problem alcohol and drug use by their parents, or their carers, within the family home as well.
And, of course, education and prevention for young people under 18 is an important part of the work we do, as are brief interventions, for example, cognitive behavioural therapy, harm reduction advice, and relapse prevention as well. So, it does have to be seen within the much wider context of the work that we are undertaking.
Jenny Rathbone also mentioned the importance of enforcement as well. I’m very grateful to the WLGA for their fulsome support of this particular piece of legislation, because the Bill specifically provides that the local authorities will be the ones to bring prosecutions, investigate complaints and take other steps with a view to reducing minimum pricing offences in their area. The legislation also gives them powers of entry, powers in relation to inspections and also powers to issue fixed-penalty notices to people who they have reason to believe have committed a minimum pricing offence as well. So, I’d like to take this opportunity to thank the WLGA for their support of this legislation, and also all of those organisations who John Griffiths mentioned in his contribution and many others who see the benefit of this approach.
Diolch yn fawr iawn am y sylwadau yna. Ac wrth gwrs, mae Jenny Rathbone wedi bod yn gefnogol i’r ymagwedd benodol hon ers tro, ac mae wedi lobïo’r Llywodraeth yn gryf iawn ar y mater penodol hwn hefyd. Felly, diolch ichi am y gwaith yr ydych chi wedi bod yn ei wneud wrth baratoi ar gyfer hyn, ar gyfer cyflwyno’r Bil.
Ac rydych chi’n gwneud pwynt pwysig, y credaf sydd wedi ei golli mewn llawer o’r ddadl yr ydym wedi ei chael dros y 48 awr diwethaf ar y mater isafbris uned, sef ei fod yn ymwneud i raddau helaeth ag atal ac ymyrraeth gynnar. Wrth gwrs, soniasoch am bobl ifanc, a dangoswyd bod pobl ifanc, yn enwedig y rheini sy’n yfed yn drwm neu’n aml, wedi bod yn arbennig o sensitif i gynnydd mewn prisiau, ac yn arbennig ceir tystiolaeth sy’n dangos perthynas rhwng prisiau yfed a chyffredinrwydd yfed trwm, ac yn arbennig yfed cyn mynd allan, ymhlith pobl ifanc. Felly, credaf fod y ddeddfwriaeth hon yn rhoi cyfle da i ni gymryd yr ymagwedd ataliol honno a chaniatáu i bobl ifanc ddechrau eu bywydau gyda pherthynas fwy iach gydag alcohol. Oherwydd rydym yn gwybod bod yr ymddygiad iechyd diweddar mewn data arolwg plant oedran ysgol yn dangos y dylai yfed ymhlith pobl ifanc fod yn bryder i ni, gyda 7 y cant o fechgyn a 5 y cant o ferched 11 i 16 oed yng Nghymru yn yfed alcohol o leiaf unwaith yr wythnos. Ac mae’r cyfrannau’n codi wrth i oedran y plant a’r bobl ifanc hynny godi hefyd.
Mae angen inni sicrhau, er mwyn i’r bobl ifanc hynny sy’n dechrau camddefnyddio sylweddau yn fuan yn eu bywydau, bod ymyrraeth gynnar ac adnabod cynnar ar gael iddynt er mwyn cyfyngu ar niwed a lleihau’r siawns o gamddefnyddio alcohol a chyffuriau yn y dyfodol. A dyna un o’r rhesymau pam yr ydym ni’n gweld y darn hwn o ddeddfwriaeth o fewn cyd-destun ehangach y gefnogaeth y dylem ei chynnig i bobl yn yr agenda ataliol honno, a’r agenda gefnogi honno, os a phryd y mae pobl ifanc yn ymwneud â chyffuriau ac alcohol, ac rydym yn sicrhau bod gennym amrywiaeth o wasanaethau ar gael. Er enghraifft, mae gennym wasanaethau cwnsela, lles emosiynol—mae gwasanaethau niwed cudd yn bwysig iawn, ac mae’r rhain yn wasanaethau i blant a phobl ifanc yr effeithir arnynt gan ddefnydd alcohol a chyffuriau mewn modd sy’n achosi problem gan eu rhieni, neu eu gofalwyr, yn y cartref teuluol hefyd.
Ac, wrth gwrs, mae addysg ac atal i bobl ifanc dan 18 oed yn rhan bwysig o’r gwaith a wnawn, fel y mae ymyriadau byr, er enghraifft, therapi ymddygiadol gwybyddol, cyngor ar leihau niwed, ac atal atglafychu hefyd. Felly, mae’n rhaid ei weld o fewn cyd-destun llawer ehangach y gwaith yr ydym ni’n ei wneud.
Soniodd Jenny Rathbone am bwysigrwydd gorfodi hefyd. Rwy’n ddiolchgar iawn i CLlLC am eu cefnogaeth lawn i’r ddeddfwriaeth benodol hon, gan fod y Bil yn darparu’n benodol mai’r awdurdodau lleol fydd y rhai i ddod ag erlyniadau, ymchwilio i gwynion a chymryd camau eraill gyda’r bwriad o leihau troseddau gosod isafbris yn eu hardal. Mae’r ddeddfwriaeth hefyd yn rhoi pwerau mynediad iddynt, pwerau mewn perthynas ag arolygiadau a hefyd bwerau i roi hysbysiadau cosb benodedig i bobl y mae ganddynt reswm dros gredu eu bod wedi cyflawni trosedd gosod isafbris hefyd. Felly, hoffwn fanteisio ar y cyfle hwn i ddiolch i CLlLC am eu cefnogaeth i’r ddeddfwriaeth hon, a hefyd yr holl sefydliadau hynny a grybwyllodd John Griffiths yn ei gyfraniad a llawer o bobl eraill sy’n gweld budd y dull hwn.
Ac yn olaf, Simon Thomas.
Finally, Simon Thomas.
Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Clearly, the Minister and the Government have made a compelling case for taking action in this area and the problems that we have with alcohol abuse within our nation, though it is worth putting on record, I think, that this is not simply a question of cost. There are countries with cheaper alcohol than we have in Wales today that do not have the problems we have. There’s a wider cultural issue that we need to address. This Bill may well be part of addressing that, but there are two issues that I’d like to touch on that I think do need ironing out as we take the Bill forward.
The first I would like to call the ‘Hay on Wye Co-op question’, which is where you can go from the oldest pub in Hay on Wye, the Three Tuns—200 yards down the road and you are in a Co-op that’s in England—where we need to be absolutely clear about how this would work in terms of cross-border relationships and also internet orders and other issues. Having taken two Bills through in the Finance Committee that relate directly to taxation, I have to say that cross-border issues are a real issue that we had to deal with in that committee and I think that any committee looking at this Bill needs to thoroughly address those cross-border issues. It’s not an excuse not to take the Bill through, but it’s an issue that does need proper examination and ironing out.
The second issue is, of course, that this is not a tax Bill but it is a fiscal measure, and we have a constant debate in the Assembly, quite rightly, about when and where is the most appropriate time to state your fiscal costs or taxes. Other Members have tried in the past to put the cost of, for example, stamp duty, which has now come in in the budget, on the face of the Bill. I’m content that that is taken forward as part of a budget process on the whole; I think that’s an appropriate way to do it. However, this is not a tax, and the public health arguments in particular do turn around what will be the minimum unit price, and all the figures that you’ve quoted today, Minister, have come from a 50p minimum unit price and you’ve referenced several reports that have dealt with a 50p minimum unit price. So, why isn’t that on the face of the Bill? What is the uncertainty about what this minimum price would be? I don’t think it’s good enough, because we’re trying to hurry this Bill through before we lose the powers, not to have a proper addressing of this question. If it’s too low, then it won’t have the effect that you’re hoping it will. If it’s too high, then it could have a disproportionate effect on moderate drinkers who come from low-income backgrounds. So, we have to get it right, and I suggest getting it right is a task for the whole Assembly and not a task just for the Government. Though I understand you’re taking regulation powers that will come to the Assembly under the affirmative method, I suggest it is better and more appropriate that, when we do pass this Bill, the minimum unit price is on the face of the Bill and you have powers to change that in the future with the approval of the Assembly.
Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Yn amlwg, mae’r Gweinidog a’r Llywodraeth wedi gwneud achos cymhellol dros weithredu yn y maes hwn a’r problemau sydd gennym gyda chamddefnyddio alcohol yn ein cenedl, er ei bod yn werth cofnodi, rwy’n credu, nad cwestiwn o gost yn unig yw hwn. Mae gwledydd sydd ag alcohol rhatach nag sydd gennym yng Nghymru heddiw nad oes ganddynt y problemau sydd gennym ni. Mae mater diwylliannol ehangach y mae angen inni fynd i’r afael ag ef. Efallai y bydd y Bil hwn yn rhan o fynd i’r afael â hynny, ond mae dau fater yr hoffwn eu crybwyll ar hynny, rwy’n credu y mae angen eu datrys wrth inni fynd â’r Bil ymlaen.
Y cyntaf yr hoffwn ei alw ‘Cwestiwn Co-op y Gelli Gandryll’, ble y gallwch fynd o’r dafarn hynaf yn Y Gelli Gandryll, y Three Tuns—200 llath i lawr y ffordd a’ch bod mewn Co-op sydd yn Lloegr—y mae angen i ni fod yn gwbl glir ynghylch sut y byddai hyn yn gweithio o ran perthnasoedd trawsffiniol a hefyd archebion rhyngrwyd a materion eraill. Ar ôl mynd â dau Fil drwyddo yn y Pwyllgor Cyllid sy’n ymwneud yn uniongyrchol â threthi, mae’n rhaid i mi ddweud bod materion trawsffiniol yn fater gwirioneddol y bu’n rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â nhw yn y pwyllgor hwnnw ac rwy’n credu bod angen i unrhyw bwyllgor sy’n edrych ar y Bil hwn fynd i’r afael yn drylwyr â’r materion trawsffiniol hynny. Nid esgus yw hynny i beidio â mynd a’r Bil drwodd, ond mae’n fater y mae angen ei archwilio’n iawn a’i lyfnhau.
Yr ail fater, wrth gwrs, yw nad Bil treth yw hwn ond mae’n fesur ariannol, ac rydym yn cael dadl gyson yn y Cynulliad, yn eithaf priodol, ynghylch pryd a ble mae’r amser mwyaf priodol i ddatgan eich costau ariannol neu drethi. Mae Aelodau eraill wedi ceisio rhoi cost, er enghraifft, treth stamp yn y gorffennol, sydd bellach wedi dod i mewn yn y gyllideb, ar wyneb y Bil. Rwy’n fodlon bod hyn yn cael ei ddatblygu fel rhan o broses gyllidebol ar y cyfan; rwy’n credu bod hynny’n ffordd briodol i’w wneud. Fodd bynnag, nid treth yw hon, ac mae’r dadleuon iechyd y cyhoedd yn benodol yn ymwneud â beth fydd yr isafbris uned, ac mae’r holl ffigurau a ddyfynnoch chi heddiw, Weinidog, wedi dod o isafbris uned o 50c ac rydych wedi cyfeirio at nifer o adroddiadau sydd wedi delio ag isafbris uned o 50c. Felly, pam nad yw hynny ar wyneb y Bil? Beth yw’r ansicrwydd ynghylch beth fyddai’r isafbris hwn? Nid wyf yn credu ei fod yn ddigon da, oherwydd ein bod ni’n ceisio rhuthro’r Bil hwn cyn i ni golli’r pwerau, i beidio â rhoi sylw cywir i’r cwestiwn hwn. Os yw’n rhy isel, yna ni fydd yn cael yr effaith yr ydych chi’n gobeithio y bydd. Os yw’n rhy uchel, gallai gael effaith anghymesur ar yfwyr cymedrol sy’n dod o gefndiroedd incwm isel. Felly, mae’n rhaid inni ei wneud yn iawn, ac rwy’n awgrymu bod ei gael yn iawn yn dasg i’r Cynulliad cyfan ac nid yn dasg i’r Llywodraeth yn unig. Er fy mod yn deall eich bod yn cymryd pwerau rheoleiddio a ddaw i’r Cynulliad o dan y dull cadarnhaol, rwy’n awgrymu ei bod yn well ac yn fwy priodol, pan fyddwn yn trosglwyddo’r Bil hwn, bod yr isafbris uned ar wyneb y Bil ac mae’r pwerau gennych i newid hynny yn y dyfodol gyda chymeradwyaeth y Cynulliad.
I thank you for those questions and your broad support for the Bill. I would completely agree with you that this is a much wider cultural issue that we are dealing with here and minimum unit pricing is only part of the answer. The answer lies in a much wider suite of measures that goes all the way from education through to supporting families in the home where there might be alcohol problems, to our workplaces, to our own social lives and so on. So, I think there are opportunities across the board in order to try and have a much more healthy relationship with alcohol in Wales. But, as I say, this is only one part of it.
The ‘Hay on Wye Co-op question’ I think is something that we will be discussing in more detail as the legislation passes through the scrutiny process of the committee. However, the Bill does deal with internet orders on the face of it and so on. We’ve tried to be as comprehensive as we can in thinking of the different ways in which people do buy alcohol and to try and futureproof it in that way.
With regard to the 50p, as to whether or not it should be on the face of the Bill or set through regulations, again, I am sure that this is something that we’ll be discussing at great length in the committee stages. When the Bill was consulted on in draft form, it was the intention that Welsh Ministers would set the minimum unit price through regulations, and we’d have an opportunity to discuss that.
The updated modelling, which will look at the price differentials from 35p to 70p, should be with us at the very end of this year, or very early at the start of next year, and I think that will give us all a much updated picture in terms of how many lives we would expect to save at the different levels, how many hospital admissions we would expect to avoid, how many lost days of work we would expect to avoid and what kind of cost saving we could expect for the NHS as well. And that will give us the opportunity to have a more informed discussion at that point. But I do think it is useful using that 50p as an illustrative guide at the moment, because it does put the issue into some kind of context for us, so that we can have an idea in our minds as to what kind of figures we are talking about.
I thank all Members for their contributions to the debate today and I look forward to further detailed scrutiny as we move through the next stages.
Diolch i chi am y cwestiynau hynny a’ch cefnogaeth eang i’r Bil. Byddwn yn cytuno’n llwyr â chi fod hwn yn fater diwylliannol llawer ehangach yr ydym yn ymdrin ag o yma ac mai dim ond rhan o’r ateb yw gosod isafbris uned. Mae’r ateb mewn cyfres lawer ehangach o fesurau sy’n mynd yr holl ffordd o addysg i gefnogi teuluoedd yn y cartref lle ceir problemau alcohol, i’n gweithleoedd, i’n bywydau cymdeithasol ein hunain ac yn y blaen. Felly, credaf fod cyfleoedd eang er mwyn ceisio cael perthynas llawer iachach ag alcohol yng Nghymru. Ond, fel y dywedais, dim ond un rhan ohono yw hwn.
Mae’r cwestiwn ‘Co-op Y Gelli Gandryll’ rwy’n credu yn rhywbeth y byddwn yn ei drafod yn fanylach wrth i’r ddeddfwriaeth fynd trwy broses graffu’r pwyllgor. Fodd bynnag, mae’r Bil yn ymdrin ag archebion rhyngrwyd ar ei wyneb ac yn y blaen. Rydym ni wedi ceisio bod mor gynhwysfawr ag y gallwn wrth feddwl am y gwahanol ffyrdd y mae pobl yn prynu alcohol ac i geisio ei ddiogelu at y dyfodol yn y ffordd honno.
O ran y 50c, pa un a ddylai fod ar wyneb y Bil ai peidio neu wedi’i osod trwy reoliadau, eto, rwy’n siŵr bod hwn yn rhywbeth y byddwn yn ei drafod yn helaeth yng nghamau’r pwyllgorau. Pan ymgynghorwyd ar y Bil ar ffurf ddrafft, y bwriad oedd y byddai Gweinidogion Cymru yn gosod yr isafbris uned trwy reoliadau, a byddem yn cael cyfle i drafod hynny.
Dylai’r modelu wedi’i ddiweddaru, a fydd yn edrych ar y gwahaniaethau pris o 35c i 70c, fod gyda ni ar ddiwedd y flwyddyn hon, neu’n gynnar iawn ar ddechrau’r flwyddyn nesaf, a chredaf y bydd hynny’n rhoi llun llawn wedi’i ddiweddaru i ni o ran faint o fywydau y byddem yn disgwyl eu hachub ar y gwahanol lefelau, faint o dderbyniadau i ysbytai y byddem yn disgwyl eu hosgoi, faint o ddiwrnodau gwaith a gollwyd y byddem yn disgwyl eu hosgoi a pha fath o arbedion cost y gallem eu disgwyl ar gyfer y GIG hefyd. A bydd hynny’n rhoi’r cyfle i ni gael trafodaeth fwy cytbwys ar y pwynt hwnnw. Ond rwy’n credu ei bod yn ddefnyddiol defnyddio’r 50c hwnnw fel canllaw enghreifftiol ar hyn o bryd, gan ei fod yn rhoi’r mater mewn rhyw fath o gyd-destun i ni, fel y gallwn ni gael syniad yn ein meddyliau ynghylch pa fath o ffigurau yr ydym yn sôn amdanynt.
Diolch i’r holl Aelodau am eu cyfraniadau i’r ddadl heddiw ac edrychaf ymlaen at ragor o graffu manwl wrth i ni symud drwy’r camau nesaf.
Diolch i’r Gweinidog.
Thank you, Minister.
Yr eitem nesaf ar ein hagenda ni yw’r datganiad gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Addysg ar recriwtio athrawon, ac rydw i’n galw ar yr Ysgrifennydd, Kirsty Williams.
The next item on our agenda is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Education on teacher recruitment, and I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Kirsty Williams.
Thank you, Llywydd. A key objective of our recently published education action plan is the development of a high-quality education profession. It is impossible to overstate the importance of our teachers’ role in helping to succeed in our national mission to raise standards, reduce the attainment gap and deliver an education system that is a source of national pride and confidence. Today, I am setting out the Government’s plans to ensure that we actively promote teaching in Wales as a high-status, valued and flexible profession. Alongside that, in our continued efforts to raise standards in the classroom, I will also provide details of how we are developing an alternative offer to support absence management arrangements in schools.
Diolch, Llywydd. Un o amcanion allweddol ein cynllun gweithredu addysg a gyhoeddwyd yn ddiweddar yw datblygu proffesiwn addysg o ansawdd uchel. Mae'n amhosib gorbwysleisio pwysigrwydd swyddogaeth ein hathrawon i’n helpu i lwyddo yn ein cenhadaeth genedlaethol i godi safonau, lleihau'r bwlch cyrhaeddiad a darparu system addysg sy'n destun balchder a hyder cenedlaethol. Heddiw, rwy'n amlinellu cynlluniau'r Llywodraeth i sicrhau ein bod ni’n hyrwyddo addysgu yng Nghymru fel proffesiwn gwerthfawr a hyblyg sydd â statws iddo. Ochr yn ochr â hynny, yn ein hymdrechion parhaus i godi safonau yn yr ystafell ddosbarth, byddaf hefyd yn rhoi manylion ynglŷn â sut yr ydym ni’n datblygu cynnig amgen i gefnogi trefniadau rheoli absenoldebau mewn ysgolion.
Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (Ann Jones) i’r Gadair.