Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru

I call the National Assembly to order.

The first item on our agenda this afternoon is questions to the First Minister, and the first question is from Paul Davies.

The Welsh Government is working to support the farming industry in Pembrokeshire so that it becomes more profitable and sustainable, and, of course, to ensure that farmers make a profit ultimately.

First Minister, the decision to exit the European Union is going to have a major impact on the agricultural industry, and it’s important that Governments at all levels work together to support our farmers in the future. But there is huge concern among farmers in Pembrokeshire at present about the possibility of introducing a nitrate-vulnerable zone. Because of the decision taken by the people of Britain, and Wales, to leave the European Union, can you tell us where this leaves the consultation that your Government intended to introduce on nitrate-vulnerable zones and whether these plans are to proceed?

That’s ongoing, of course, bearing in mind that the environmental law that has been transposed into Welsh law will remain in place although the UK is to leave the European Union. It will then be an issue for the Welsh Government to decide which laws should be retained ultimately and which would not be retained.

Many farmers in Pembrokeshire and elsewhere in Wales have already diversified into tourism. Given the vote taken on the referendum—and Paul has already mentioned the fact that there is so much uncertainty among farmers now—will the Welsh Government do more to promote tourism and to encourage more farmers to go down that particular route?

It’s true to say that we’ve supported farmers in doing that over the past few years through schemes such as Farming Connect and through the rural development plan. It’s very important that we ensure that all means of making a profit are presented to farmers in order to ensure that their farms are more sustainable.

One of our best known agricultural products in Pembrokeshire, and part of these nitrate-vulnerable zones, is potatoes of course. Pembrokeshire earlies have protected geographical indication status under the current European regime, which allows farmers and producers to sell their produce as something that is unique from a particular area. From what I understand, PGI goes along with membership of the European Union. Does the Government have any plans or any intention to introduce something similar for Wales as we exit the European Union?

It will be crucially important, but it’s uncertain at the moment as to what the situation is. If PGI status were to be lost, that would be a blow not only to Pembrokeshire potatoes, but to lamb. The lamb export market is extremely important, and one of the things that ensures that we can sell across the world is that we can give a guarantee to purchasers that the lamb is from Wales and of the highest quality. The same is true of potatoes. So, if we were to lose that PGI and protected designation of origin status, then we would have to ensure that we would have an equal status in Wales so that buyers could have the same confidence in our produce.

We remain committed to delivering a successful Cardiff capital region city deal. We have not yet had a response from the UK Government, however, in terms of them guaranteeing that the funding element of that deal that comes from European funds would be honoured by them, and that, of course, has a direct impact upon match funding for the city deal.

One of the key planks of the city deal is the metro, which could transform transport services in south Wales and the Valleys. As the First Minister has said, a sizeable amount of the project money has not yet been signed off. What opportunity would the First Minister have to negotiate directly with Europe about the continuation or obtaining the rest of that money?

As things stand, as soon as the United Kingdom leaves the European Union, then access to that funding will end. Now, I’m putting in place a team in Brussels to look at negotiating on Wales’s behalf in parallel with the UK, with the European Commission. But, if the European funding is not made up by the UK Government, then, clearly, that leaves a hole in funding and we will have to revise the plans that we currently have.

Before I come to a question, I was heckled by you last week, and you audibly called me a coward. I would suggest, in future, you behave in a more—

This is a question. This is a question. Ask a question, please, Mr McEvoy.

With respect, I would ask the First Minister to behave more like a First Minister.

Ask your question.

My question is coming now, but my statement remains.

I’ve just chaired a conference on the city deal—

Ask your question.

I am asking my question, with respect, Presiding Officer, if you’ll let me. [Interruption.] I’ve just chaired a conference on the city deal. [Interruption.]

Ask your question, Mr McEvoy.

I’ve just chaired a—

I think we know by now that you’ve just chaired something. Tell us what it is, and ask your question.

There were hundreds of delegates, from the third sector, from Government, yet there was only one person from a local business. My question is: why are local communities and why are local businesses not being included in the city deal? Small businesses are the backbone of this economy and yet their voice is hardly heard. Why is that?

Well, if he chaired it, I’m not surprised that very few businesses were there, I have to say. The reality is that businesses will be a hugely important part of the city deal, and we’ll work with local authorities and businesses to make sure that the benefits of the deal can be maximised.

First Minister, we’ve heard that the metro deal is central to this whole concept. Unfortunately, two weeks ago, I think we realised that there’s a great gulf between areas like Cardiff and the Valleys areas to the north, and this was reflected in the voting pattern. And the metro does give us a chance to integrate the economic future of these two very important parts of the south Wales economy.

I agree very much with that. The concept of the metro is designed to do two things, primarily. First of all, of course, to make it easier for those who have jobs in Cardiff to travel quickly into Cardiff, but also to attract investment away from the coast and further up the Valleys, and to get rid of that perception that our northern Valleys communities are hard to reach. We know that’s not true. We know, with the road schemes that have been put in place already, and we know that, with the metro scheme, we will be able to say to investors that our Valleys communities are connected to the wider economy of south-east Wales and therefore they are communities that should be invested in. And we’re beginning to see the fruits of that with the investment decision by TVR.

Questions now from the party leaders, and first of all this week, the leader of the opposition, Leanne Wood.

Diolch yn fawr. First Minister, the Westminster political system is in crisis, with skulduggery and backstabbing going on in both the Conservative Party and your own party in London. And this has had a major effect on Wales and on our country’s future. Would the First Minister be prepared to have a word with Welsh MPs to tell them to get a grip and to do their job, which is to hold the Conservative Government to account, and to make sure that Wales gets every single penny of the funds that we were promised in the event of a vote to leave the European Union?

Well, I’m not going to pretend to the leader of the opposition that things are stable at Westminster—that’s there for all to see. But I can say, as far as we’re concerned as a Government, we will fight for every single penny that Wales is owed, and I am absolutely confident that all those who represent my party at Westminster will do the same.

First Minister, I’m disappointed that you’re not prepared to show some leadership on this question. If you are not prepared to have a word with your own MPs, perhaps they’re prepared to listen to this message from me: voters in our constituencies want us to be their voice in this difficult time. They want us to tackle the racism that has risen in our communities, they want to get back to work, and they want to see us take our country forward. Now, the last thing they need right now is more division and more in-fighting.

In the public meeting that I did last night in Aberystwyth, First Minister, I heard from a young man whose family has a German background, and they are concerned about their future. They don’t know what rights they will have, they’re worried about reports in the press that their status might well be on the table in negotiations. Now, many children have been asking questions of their parents when they’re in this situation, and parents are finding it very difficult to answer those questions when so much is unknown. Now, I hope that you can cover this more comprehensively in the urgent question later on, but we need to be clear that EU citizens are a net benefit to Wales. We should all say that every single one of them are welcome here and that they shouldn’t have to leave this country if or when Brexit eventually takes place.

First Minister, what reassurances can you give to people living in Wales from other parts of Europe that you will champion them, their rights and their families?

In a way, that gives me the opportunity to answer the urgent question now, which I’m happy to do. I have written to the Home Secretary and I have said to her that, as far as the Welsh Government is concerned, we believe that EU citizens living in the UK should retain the right to do so after the UK withdraws from the EU. She and I are in the same position on that. I believe it’s utterly wrong to use EU citizens living in the UK as a bargaining chip in negotiations; it makes it sound as if they are hostages. They are not hostages; they are welcome in Wales.

I thank you for that answer, First Minister. Now, in a different meeting that I attended yesterday in Cardiff, I heard from a representative of one of the sectors that will be heavily affected by the Brexit vote. We were told that the further education and skills sector could lose £760 million of future funding if that money isn’t replaced. If and when that funding doesn’t materialise, the young people who are most affected will be those who are furthest away from the employment market. That’s just one sector of Welsh civic society, and it shows how important our EU membership is and the benefits that are there and that they shouldn’t just be discarded.

Do you agree with me that those voices from civic society deserve to be heard when the Brexit terms are negotiated, and will you draw up an official Welsh negotiating position, to be agreed by this National Assembly and sent to the incoming UK Prime Minister? And, if you are unable to hold the new Tory leader in Westminster to account for the promises that were made in the EU referendum campaign, can you tell us how those apprenticeship places, the training courses and the back-to-work schemes that are currently benefiting some of the most disadvantaged people in some of the most disadvantaged communities in Wales will be available to those people in the future?

First of all, she’s right to point out the funding gap that would exist. Secondly, she and I have discussed the issue of what the negotiating stance should be and I’m quite happy to share it with the Chamber: that is, first, that we will explore every possible avenue of benefit to Wales; secondly, I’ve already asked the economy Secretary to announce a series of measures to protect jobs and maintain economic confidence and stability and he has produced that. Yesterday, the environment and rural affairs secretary and I met key figures from Wales’s environment and agriculture and fisheries sectors to discuss the implications of the UK’s decision to leave the European Union. But, I have to say that there is a duty on those who called for the UK to leave the EU to ensure that the promises that they made in terms of funding for Wales are honoured. I have to say that the evidence of that now is getting thinner by the day. The question is: were the Welsh public told the truth before the referendum or is the truth emerging now?

The leader of the UKIP group, Neil Hamilton.

I’m sure the First Minister is aware that there is no question of EU citizens currently living or working in the United Kingdom being used as bargaining chips in any renegotiation, because their rights are fully protected under the 1969 Vienna convention. Can the First Minister confirm to me that that is the case?

Well, I can only quote what the Foreign Secretary has said and, indeed, the person who might yet become the Prime Minister, who has said that those rights are not guaranteed. Now, we need to have clarity and there needs to be a response from the current Home Secretary as quickly as possible in order that people can have assurance that, for many people who’ve lived in the UK for many, many years, they will not find their rights of residence removed. That clarity is essential.

Turning away from EU matters, the First Minister has rightly mentioned the prospects for employment in Wales following our leaving the EU, and he will be aware that the Welsh Government’s currently sitting on a decision in relation to the circuit of Wales. There was a problem in relation to this over the size of the guarantee that would be required for funding the project. Now I understand that that’s been reduced to less than 50 per cent of the total, so there doesn’t seem to be any reason why we can’t move swiftly to a decision to give this guarantee so that this huge job-making project can go ahead. So, could the First Minister please tell me where we’ve got to on this at the minute?

The economy Secretary will be making an announcement on the Circuit of Wales next week.

Oh, right. Well, I’m delighted to hear that, because it is vitally important for the whole of south-east Wales and, indeed, far beyond. This is the biggest regeneration project that we’ve seen in many, many years—£380 million—and I don’t expect that the First Minister can anticipate the Cabinet Secretary’s forthcoming announcement, but I hope he will accept from me that it is vitally important that the Welsh Government gives the go-ahead to this project.

All these factors will be taken into consideration. I assume I will have a heads-up before the decision is taken—I’m sure I will—but the economy Secretary, I know, will be making an announcement next week on the progress of this scheme.

The leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Andrew R.T. Davies.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. First Minister, you earlier alluded to the fact that you and the Cabinet Secretary for rural affairs met with the farming unions and other businesses from the rural communities yesterday. In questions, two weeks ago, the Cabinet Secretary said that she did not believe that farmers—and this is a direct quote—were

‘perhaps…the best people to run a business’.

Do you actually believe that is the case, that farmers aren’t the best people to run their own businesses?

That’s not what she said.

It’s a direct quote.

I can say that the event yesterday was hugely successful. We emphasised to the sector, first of all the environmental sector, that all those environmental laws that are already in Welsh law will remain. Secondly, as far as farming is concerned, just to emphasise the point, there is no such thing as British agricultural policy. It’s entirely devolved. So, there are opportunities for the farming industry to work with us as to what a future funding scheme might look like, what support they may want in the future—although, of course, that depends on the money being made available from the UK Government to provide that support. And thirdly, of course, in terms of fisheries, what should be done with Welsh territorial waters in terms of who should be able to fish in them and, secondly, whether Welsh boats wanted us to negotiate with other administrations in terms of obtaining fishing rights for them in other waters.

First Minister, the quote I gave you was a direct quote from the Record of Proceedings here and I do note that you didn’t distance yourself from that quote.

If I could also ask you a question on the letter that you released on the day of the referendum of 23 June in relation to the agreement that you have with the Liberal Democrats and, in particular, the assertion made by Kirsty Williams that the implications had significant budget implications over the nine education commitments that were made between you and the Liberal Democrats. What is the totality of the commitment that you have given in financial terms to meet the commitment that you made to the Liberal Democrats that brought them into Government? I do believe that’s a reasonable question because, as I said, the words that were quoted in the correspondence were ‘significant budget implications’.

Wherever there is European funding for a particular project, that project has to be looked at carefully when that European funding comes to an end. I thought that was obvious. That’s already been mentioned by the leader of the opposition. Unless that money is made up by the UK Government as promised, then it is clear, in the future, that some schemes will not be able to be funded in the way that we would hope.

He is very keen on quotes and quotations this afternoon. Let me just offer up some for him. On 2 March, Andrew R.T. Davies speaking on ‘The Wales Report’:

‘I can guarantee that a UK government would make sure that money would be re-distributed around the regions of the UK, otherwise it would be failing in its remit to deliver help and support to the nation’—

he means the UK by that—

‘it is elected to govern. Frankly we cannot continue with operation fear, driving people in to the ballot box because you are scaring them into voting one way.’

On 14 June:

‘Campaigners for a Leave vote have said money Wales gets from Brussels would be maintained by the UK government in the event of Brexit.’

I welcome that.

Andrew R.T. Davies said:

‘Today's announcement is hugely welcome and is further evidence that Wales would be better off out of the European Union. Despite the first minister's fantasy claims, we now know that funding for each and every part of the UK, including Wales, would be safe if we vote to leave.’

On 21 June, Andrew R.T. Davies told the ‘Herald’:

‘Wales could be as much as half a billion pounds a year better off if the UK votes to leave the European Union on Thursday…Senior Government Ministers have already pledged to maintain existing EU funding if we Vote to Leave’.

And additional funding—a Barnett share of £9.8 billion that Wales could receive if we left the EU. And, today, he told the media that it wasn’t about money, it was about outcomes. Now, the question for him is this: does he believe that every single penny that has been lost to Wales should be made up by the UK Government? Does he stand by his quotations—and he is keen on quotations today—or is he running away from them this morning?

It’s quite remarkable that you’ve wasted so much of your time—but I’m quite happy that you’re using my quotes because you’ve got so little to say, First Minister. I stand by my quotes and I’m quite happy to put that on the record. I’m quite happy to debate with you any time, any place, First Minister, on the benefits that I see, and the people endorsed that at the ballot box on the referendum on 23 June. I find it absolutely amazing, after two very clear questions—one to distance yourself from a Cabinet Secretary who has ridiculed farmers’ business acumen, and two, over the deal that you have struck with the Liberal Democrats to bring them into Government that, in their own words, has significant budget implications for your Government. I don’t think those are outlandish questions to put in First Minister’s questions because in the campaign you did say that for every new budget commitment that was made by your Government there would have to be cuts elsewhere. So, nine weeks now after the election, it’s not unreasonable for the leader of the Conservatives in the Assembly here to ask you the question, ‘Right, you’ve committed this money to the Liberal Democrats’ commitments; where are you getting that money from?’ It’s not to do with the Brexit vote. It’s a commitment you made prior to the Brexit vote because these discussions were prior to the Brexit vote. So, where is the money coming from to meet the significant financial commitments that you have agreed with the Liberal Democrats going forward? Could we have a simple, straightforward answer, or is it quite simply that you don’t know?

Can I quote a good Belfast phrase at him? He’s living in a world of sweetie white mice, because, I tell you what, if he thinks that somehow he can get away from the fact that he has failed the people of Wales today by saying he will not fight for every single penny to be made up to Wales—. He had the opportunity to declare his position—he failed to do it. He’s right to point out there will be budget difficulties. That’s true, because we will be losing EU money—£650 million a year is going to be lost to our budget as a result of Brexit. Now, if all that money is made up, as he promised—as he promised three times—by the UK Government, now that will help. Now, the question for him is this: will he stand by the people of Wales or will he run away from the mess that he’s created?

Over the past 10 years, a number of new primary care facilities have been opened across north Wales. Of course, they provide buildings of the highest quality for GPs.

There is a critical situation in my constituency, in the Waunfawr surgery, and I’d like to draw your attention to the terrible problems that exist there and ask you to intervene, as this matter has been going on for about 10 years now.

The surgery provides excellent care for more than 5,000 patients, but the building is completely inappropriate—there isn’t enough space, patient confidentiality is under threat and it’s not possible for the practice to take medical students or expand services. Ten years ago the health board said that improving the Waunfawr surgery was a priority, however the facilities haven’t improved at all. Do you believe that this dragging of feet is acceptable, and because the Betsi Cadwaladr University Local Health Board is in special measures, will you intervene in order to move things forward urgently?

The Member is right on the situation in Waunfawr—there are huge pressures there. I understand that the surgery itself is discussing this in very great detail with the health board. The problem has to be resolved as soon as possible—I understand that. Of course, there would have to be an application from the surgery in the first instance, but to do that, of course, it would have to be discussed with the health board in order to ensure that that application was the right one. But I know that the health board understands the situation and understand that they need to secure more space for the surgery ultimately. I understand that it was a shop at one time, but that 5,000 people are served there now—1,000 at the outset—so it’s clear that the problem needs to be resolved as soon as possible.

After the loss of dozens of community beds in north Wales despite bed occupancy levels of 95 per cent or above, NHS staff in north Wales told me that new community beds would take pressure off general hospitals and enable the health board to use its resources more efficiently. How, therefore, do you respond to the statement by GPs at the Royal College of General Practitioners’ event in the Assembly a fortnight ago that community beds add to the breadth of things a GP can do, and that local care in a GP unit in community hospitals, enabling them to then discharge people home, prevents the need to put people into general hospitals and assists secondary and primary care?

This does happen, of course, in many parts of Wales, particularly in parts of rural Wales. It's important, of course, that each health board considers the right model for its area. Now, I'm aware and I've seen examples myself of how this operates well. We should not, of course, use that as a reason not to ensure that people can go home with the right support as quickly as possible, but the model that the Member talks about already exists in many parts of Wales.

In 2016-17, we will provide over £600,000 of grant funding to support the modernisation of three libraries in Mid and West Wales.

I don't know whether the First Minister is aware that Powys County Council plans £0.25 million in cuts to the library budget between now and 2019, which will involve cutting half the local running costs of the library service and the possible closure of 11 branch libraries. Will the First Minister join me in regretting this sense of priorities, because libraries must surely be regarded as a vitally important part of the wider education service of this country?

It is a matter, of course, for local authorities as to how they organise their library services, though I am aware that one of the libraries that will receive money is Brecon area library in order to modernise it, but it is for local authorities to decide how to provide library services.

First Minister, as you’ll know, library services are a valued community asset, so much so that, in Narberth, and also in Newport in Pembrokeshire, local communities are working with Pembrokeshire County Council to keep libraries open as a community-managed resource in the face of Tory austerity cuts. Would you join me in thanking those volunteers for their efforts in supporting the remaining opening of those libraries and, in particular, to thank them in those rural areas that do need that extra support?

Yes, I would join the Member in thanking those people. I've seen an example of it myself in Briton Ferry, where volunteers are now running the library, and I know that the library service is—. Well, one of the stories I was told there is that people are now more likely to use the library—some people thought the library had closed years ago. And it's hugely important, then, that volunteers were able, not just to ensure that the library continued running, but also to ensure that knowledge about the library was more widespread in the community.

First Minister, during the week that we commemorate the hundredth anniversary of the battle of the Somme, it is vital that we celebrate the important role that county archives services play, particularly in helping today's generation keep in touch with their past. First Minister, I'm sure that you are aware that Carmarthen's archive is currently being restored, having been severely damaged due to poor housing in an inadequate building that allowed valuable documents to be covered with mould and have all sorts of other unfortunate things be visited upon them. Will you join with me in welcoming the restoration of this important cultural archive in Wales, and will you outline what your Government is doing to help other libraries, other valuable archives in Wales, to be restored and kept for the future of the nation?

Well, I can say that the example that the Member gives has been helped by funding from Welsh Government, and another example I can offer is the relocation of the rent archives in Ebbw Vale at a brand-new building, a hugely important resource, and a resource that is particularly accessible—part, of course, of the redevelopment of the old steelworks site.

We continue to invest in social housing, which will be an important element of our target of 20,000 affordable homes in this term, and we are supporting both local authorities and housing associations in order to meet that target.

Can I first of all thank the First Minister for that response? I believe in the importance of social housing; I have many of my constituents on the council house waiting list at the moment. I also want to stress the importance of ending the right to buy so that councils are able to build again without the fear that those houses will be sold very, very quickly. Can some of the funding currently given to housing associations to build new properties be given to councils to support council house building?

I'm keen to avoid this being seen as a competition between local authorities and housing associations. They're both crucial to the delivery of our new target. We want to see, of course, more ambition from local authorities when it comes to house building. It is difficult, because local authorities were prevented from building houses for so many years. But we are working with both local authorities and housing associations to develop a delivery plan.

First Minister, a cap on housing benefit at local housing allowance rates will apply from April 2018, but only to tenancies signed after April 2016. This reform is better intended to align the rules in the private and the social rented sectors, but it will lead to prospective tenants experiencing further issues of affordability if they are in receipt of benefits or require welfare support in the future. This is something that Community Housing Cymru are very animated about at the moment. In light of the UK Government’s decision, what plans does the Welsh Government have to ensure that continued provision of supported housing for some of the most vulnerable people in society?

We want to ensure, of course, that those who are most vulnerable do not suffer as a result of decisions taken elsewhere. I know the Minister is actively looking at the current situation in order to mitigate any impact on those most vulnerable.

First Minister, while we all agree that more houses are needed in Wales, my constituents in communities like Penllergaer, Pontarddulais and Gorseinon are not persuaded that the council’s draft local development plan reflects the need for provision of the right houses in the right places, to reflect the needs of people during different times in their lives. So, can you confirm firstly that, in building council houses, local authorities will be bound in the same way as any developer to give strong due regard to the concerns of local residents about locations? And, secondly, what are you doing at the moment to help councils look forward to providing more homes for older people when they’re planning council house building in the future?

Councils, of course, will be planning according to the demographic change. We know that, historically—for many, many decades—houses were built on the basis that they were going to house families. We know that there are increasingly more and more people who are on their own. They’ve been hit hard by the bedroom tax, particularly in rural Wales, where one-bedroomed accommodation is hard to find outside towns. In relation to the first point, of course councils are bound by their own local development plan and they must abide by that plan, just as any other developer would.

First Minister, during questions to the Cabinet Secretary last month, I was able to highlight a report from Sheffield Hallam University, which identified the disproportionate adverse impact of Tory Government welfare benefits cuts on poorer communities, with particular reference to limiting the local housing benefit to the local housing rate. Another proposal under the new arrangements is to raise the threshold below which payment is made at the shared accommodation rate—i.e. that’s the lowest rate—from 25 years of age to 35 years of age, effectively making it more difficult, if not impossible, for younger people to afford social housing. Can I urge the First Minister, in any discussions with the UK Government on this issue, to caution against this change, which is already resulting in some Welsh social housing bodies questioning if they can continue to provide social housing for that age group?

It’s part of a theme where, the younger you are, the more you have to pay. If it comes to housing benefit, if it comes to access to housing, if it means getting your foot on the mortgage ladder, there’s never been a more difficult time. I had it easy in my generation, as did my parents, but now it’s much, much more difficult for young people. I think we have to make a point that more needs to be done to help young people to get into accommodation. That means not discriminating against them because of their age. We see it in the same way with the minimum wage. Surely if somebody does a job of work, they should be paid the same rate regardless of their age.

We are in regular dialogue with anchor companies and the economy Secretary met with Airbus last Friday. We will be writing to key companies in Wales, including the anchor companies, with a view to holding a business engagement forum focusing on issues raised by the result.

Thank you, First Minister. As an Assembly Member in north-east Wales, many of my constituents are employed in large workplaces like Airbus. The vote to leave the EU has not only created uncertainty for these people and their families, but also the many hundreds employed via the supply chain reliant on the aerospace site. Can the First Minister assure the workforce and their families that this Government will fight both for their future livelihood and the industrial jewel in the crown of north Wales?

I can give that absolute assurance. I know how important Airbus is as an employer in Wales. I know, particularly at Broughton, the thousands who are employed there will be uncertain about the future, as are all manufacturers in Wales at the moment. They are waiting to see what the outcome of the negotiations actually is, particularly over access to the single market. If we do not get access to the single market, there are immense difficulties for our manufacturers and we will work hard to make sure that companies like Airbus continue to benefit from access to a market of 500 million people.

Following on from that point, has the Welsh Government had an opportunity to make an initial analysis at least of the relative merits of the various—a rather bewildering array, possibly—Brexit options that have been mentioned: Norway, Switzerland, Canada and Singapore, even, bizarrely? Particularly because of the importance of preservation of access to the single market, as he’s just said, has he come to the conclusion, as have many in the business community, that EEA EFTA possibly looks the least-worst option on the table at the moment?

Given that that would ensure access to the single market, and that is the only model that’s currently on the table, the answer must be ‘yes’. But, of course, we have to accept that that would involve free movement of people and, of course, we know that many, many people voted on that issue, above the issue of jobs, actually—I heard it on the doorstep—in the referendum a week last Thursday. The difficulty is: at this moment in time, there’s no model that’s being proposed that would allow access to the single market without there being free movement of people as well. Norway haven’t done it; Switzerland haven’t been able to do it. It is simply the EEA model. The reality is that the UK Government has no real idea of what kind of model might work in the future, which shows the uncertainty of the times that we’re living in, which is why we want to provide as much certainty as we can, from a Welsh Government perspective, and, secondly, why certainty needs to be provided as soon as possible at UK level.

First Minister, as a constituency Member in Aberconwy, I’m only too well aware of the valuable importance of Airbus in Broughton with the jobs—6,000 jobs—that they provide. I know in a statement after the referendum result they did say that they are really looking to constructively work with the UK Government to provide support for their workers and, indeed, to carry on with their operations here. How will you, as First Minister, and your Welsh Government provide the assurance that they probably need right now? Have you been to visit? Have you come up to north Wales and visited Airbus in order to have those senior management level talks, so that they do receive that assurance that you will be working equally as hard as the UK Government to support them?

I met with the president of Airbus in the week of the referendum. I know that the Cabinet Secretary has also met with Airbus. I have regular meetings with Airbus to listen to their concerns. All manufacturers are saying to me that they are concerned about access to the single market. They are European operations, and if the UK is outside of the market they sell in, there are consequences for investment in the future. It doesn’t mean that they could close them overnight—of course it doesn’t—but if you are an international company, you’re more likely to invest inside a market than outside it. That’s why it’s hugely important that we continue to have free access to the single market, tariff free. I cannot imagine what our Welsh lamb farmers will do if a 15 per cent tariff is imposed on the lamb that they produce and that is sold in the European market, which is why—of course, steel as well: the steel tariffs would be even higher—it’s vitally important that, regardless of the other issues, bearing in mind the way that people voted, access to the single market without tariffs remains.

Would the First Minister confirm that, and I’m not implying in any way that you were involved, during the 1970s, France and Britain co-operated to build Concorde? I believe it was called ‘entente cordiale’, well before we became members of the EU. The inference of this is, of course, that matters at Airbus will continue unabated and that this debate now is another example of scaremongering, which we had both before Brexit and is now carrying on after Brexit.

I can absolutely assure the Member I had nothing to do with Concorde—its maiden flight occurred when I was two, so I can say that. [Laughter.] But, bear in mind, of course, that Concorde was an example of UK and French co-operation that was a failure, actually. As a project, it didn’t work—it never worked on a commercial basis. He has to bear in mind that the UK was desperate to join the common market in 1973—desperate to join—because the UK economy was in a weak state. This idea that, somehow, the UK was forced against its will to join is just simply wrong—it was desperate to join for many, many years. Of course there’ll be co-operation; we understand that. All of a sudden, the drawbridge isn’t going to be pulled up, but we have to understand that we are part, at the moment, of a market of 500 million people. If we have to pay a price to enter that market, then our manufacturers will pay a price to enter the market and, ultimately, there’ll be a price in terms of jobs. That’s the last thing, surely, that anybody wants to see.

It’s right to say that EU directives have driven much of our air-quality legislation and we will look at these on a case-by-case basis once we have agreed the negotiating position for withdrawal, but local air-quality management is driven by the Environment Act 1995.

Thank you, First Minister. European environmental protections must not be sacrificed. There is no doubt that we cannot afford a future UK Government to weaken these limits. While the regulations remain outside the EU, we will lose the vital enforcement that EU law provided. Air pollution and climate change are serious issues, not just for this generation, but for future generations. Following the referendum result, will the Welsh Government do all that it can to enshrine these environmental protections and ensure that these rules are enforced?

As I said earlier on, what is already transposed into Welsh law will remain in Welsh law. It’s a matter then for the Welsh Government and, of course, the Assembly to decide which laws should then remain. But, it’s worth pointing out that it’s been European incentives that have enabled the UK to clean up its act. The UK had a bad reputation, environmentally, as a source of acid rain. I grew up in Bridgend, where the River Ogmore literally ran different colours, according to what had been thrown into it upriver from some of the factories and, of course, the mines that existed upriver. So, it ran red, green, black—name any colour. It doesn’t happen now; it’s a river you can see the bottom of, now. The Taff, as we know, has a salmon run that goes up it, which would have been unthinkable 30 years ago as the river was so polluted. Much of that drive has actually come from Europe, in order to make sure that the UK caught up with the rest. What I want to make sure is that we don’t lose the drive that has existed for the past 30 years.

Both Conservative and Labour Governments have recognised the need to legislate to improve air quality by introducing measures to control and reduce pollution. Many of these measures were passed before we joined the European Union, for example, the Clean Air Acts of 1956 and 1968. Does the First Minister agree that it is inconceivable that any future UK Government will take action to reverse any current EU regulation in place to regulate air quality in Wales?

I don’t think it’s inconceivable, given what I’ve heard about fracking and opencast mining; I don’t believe it is inconceivable. The Clean Air Act came in because people were literally dropping dead in London because of toxic fogs in that city. There wasn’t much choice other than to introduce legislation at that stage. But, certainly, in the 1980s, our rivers were still—. There was a river in Yorkshire that would catch fire, if you threw a match into it; we had rivers in Wales that were hugely polluted; our beaches weren’t clean; our air quality was very, very poor. All that has improved hugely over the past 30 years, and we have been driven in that direction, actually, by the European Union; otherwise, we wouldn’t have done it ourselves. I intend to make sure that the environment the people of Wales have come to enjoy, the environment that people have come to deserve, will remain that way in the future, and will not go back to the days when I was a young lad, when the rivers were polluted, when there were tips everywhere, until they were cleared away, and people expected things would remain that way. That’s not so; we are a country now where we can be proud of our environment.

First Minister, given that the pollution created by shipping is 260 times that produced by all the world’s cars and that action is required on a global level instead of a continental one, what discussions has the First Minister had with the International Maritime Organization and others in an effort to seriously address the global air pollution problem?

The reality is, of course, that international trade is such that it means that goods will move around the world. We are hugely reliant in Wales on exports. The last thing we would want to do is to restrict our ability to export. Of course, we want to source as locally as possible, where that can be done, and our procurement strategy reflects that.

It would mean that £650 million per annum would be lost in terms of Government spending, including £260 million in farming subsidies.

Thank you, First Minister, for that answer. Since 2007, EU projects have created 11,900 enterprises and some 37,000 jobs. This EU funding has helped 72,700 people into work, helped more than 229,000 gain qualifications, and has funded 56,000 people into further learning since 2007. Under the current £1.8 billion EU-supported programmes, more than £700 million of EU structural funding has already been committed, and that is just 40 per cent of the total allocation for the 2014-20 period. So, can the First Minister state what actions the Welsh Government can take—and we’ve already heard earlier about R.T. Davies’s pledges and guarantees on this front—to ensure that the leavers’ pledge that Welsh funding will not be affected is kept, unlike the other broken promises that we’ve heard of putting an extra £350 million into the NHS? Thank you.

The difficulty is that those who’ve advocated some of these pledges have run away from them: throw a brick through the window and let other people pick up the pieces. I expect those people who made those pledges, and who may well be in Government in London in the next few months, to keep to those pledges. That was a vow that was made to the people of Wales and, indeed, in other countries and, indeed, regions of England. I cannot think of anything that would bring politics more into disrepute if politicians say on the one hand, ‘Every single penny will be guaranteed’, and then turn around and say, ‘We didn’t mean that’—‘We didn’t mean that’. That would mean a breach of the most fundamental pledge made to the people of Wales, and the people of Wales will hold those people to account.

And, finally, Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. I’m pleased that the Government has given a commitment to develop a business plan on the dualling of the Britannia bridge. We’re expecting some developments there soon, I believe. But that is a project that we could have expected to have made a bid for European funding for, as a contribution towards its cost, because of the importance of the A55 as part of the European transport network. May I ask the First Minister what his view is on the possibility of losing that source of funding now, and will he give a commitment to put pressure on the UK Government, if that funding source is lost, to ensure that that funding is provided, perhaps as part of some Marshall plan for the Welsh economy, as we’ve mentioned as a party?

Well, the Marshall plan funding came from the United States, but I understand the point you’re making, and I’ve said it a number of times, namely that every penny lost should be made up by those who promised that that would be the case, that that would happen. We’ve heard from those who argued that we should leave the European Union: they said that there would be tons of money available. Well, let’s see where that money is for Wales, and ensure that the people of Wales can decide how that money is spent. But, of course, all we’ve heard is people withdrawing from that pledge or that vow. I am, as is he, of course, strongly of the view that we should fight for Wales and not fight against Wales, and that’s what we’ve heard in this Chamber from some people today.

Thank you, First Minister.

We now move on to the urgent question that I have accepted under Standing Order 12.66, and I call on Simon Thomas to ask the urgent question.

Well, in order to repeat the words I said earlier, I’ve written to the Home Secretary to ensure that she will confirm that the United Kingdom will allow European Union citizens to remain within the United Kingdom on a permanent basis, those that are here already. And, of course, it’s quite wrong to see these people as people that should be discussed and debated. It’s important that that guarantee is given now.

Thank you for that confirmation, First Minister. I do hope that you will publish the letter that you’ve written to the Home Secretary, as well as her response to that letter. Despite what we’ve heard in the Chamber today, a spokesperson on behalf of Theresa May said yesterday, in explaining the position expressed in the Commons:

nid ydym ni eisiau datgelu ein sefyllfa negodi ar y cychwyn.

To me, that sounds as if EU citizens are being treated as chess pieces and are being moved around for political reasons. There are 67,000 people from European Union nations living in Wales, 500 of them doctors in our health service. We can’t afford to lose these people, and they are part of our families, they’re part of our communities, and part of contemporary Wales. It is disgraceful that these people are treated in the way in which they have been over the past week because of an election within one party that’s a minority in the House of Commons.

We must send a robust message from Wales that these people are welcome in our communities, that we want them to stay, and that we will continue to welcome them and do everything we can to demonstrate that. There was an event on the prom in Aberystwyth on Saturday—I don’t know if you saw that; it didn’t get a great deal of attention, but there were 400 people there, standing firmly alongside refugees, and people from other nations, and everyone who has come to live in Wales.

I saw that event and once again I can confirm that that’s extremely important, because I’ve heard people talk about this. I was in Llanelli—as were you, of course—last week, listening to people’s concerns there, and I heard the same thing in Swansea. It’s exceptionally important that there is confirmation and affirmation from the United Kingdom Government that people here already can remain. Some people say that they can stay anyway, but we haven’t heard that from the United Kingdom Government, the people making these decisions. This is not a matter for discussion; this is something that we need an assurance on now in order to ensure that people can still believe that there is a welcome for them in Wales and in the United Kingdom. That’s not the case at the moment, and he and I, of course, have heard evidence of that over the past few weeks.

I spent part of yesterday morning trying to remove a racist slogan from somebody’s front door, and, unfortunately, these sorts of incidents are not isolated. What do you think the Government can do to try and tone down the levels of hatred that this Brexit vote seems to have unleashed, as well as ensuring that we get the full co-operation of local authorities, the police and the voluntary sector to ensure these things are stamped out and are deemed to be unacceptable?

My comment last week was quite simply this: all countries have their idiots and Wales has its share, unfortunately. I was too generous to these people in the way I described them I believe now, but there we are; I have to be diplomatic in my job as best I can. The reality is that I heard people who were very afraid last week—people who’d lived in the UK for generations, actually, but, because they looked different, therefore they were a target. We have been in contact with the police and crime commissioners to make sure that the police are aware of what’s happening. The police are certainly very keen to emphasise the fact that people should report hate crimes; they will, of course, then take action. And the message has to be got out there that we will not accept this kind of hatred in our society; we cannot be tolerant of intolerance. What has been let out of the bottle is going to be difficult to control, but it must be controlled for the good of our society.

Thank you, First Minister.

The next item on our agenda is the business statement and announcement and I call on Jane Hutt.

I’ve one change to today’s business. The statement on housing and homelessness has been withdrawn. Additionally, Business Committee has agreed to postpone tomorrow’s short debate. Business for the next three weeks is as shown on the business statement and announcement found among the meeting papers available to Members electronically.

With all the sort of political turmoil over the last few weeks, the ending of the PCS museum strike may not have received the attention that it deserves, and I want to pay tribute to the staff at the museum, who fought for years, it’s turned out, to protect the weekend pay of the lowest paid workers. I’m glad the Welsh Government was able to intervene to help end the strike.

However, would the leader of the house arrange for a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for the economy about the relationship between the Welsh Government and the bodies that it totally funds, such as the museum and the library, to set out what is the relationship between the Government and the management at those bodies? I think it would be helpful to understand the parameters that operate.

I thank Julie Morgan for that question. I know she has raised this on a regular basis in support of ensuring that there was a resolution to the national museum dispute. Of course, the Welsh Government offered support and also facilitated discussions to bring the parties together and to bring the dispute to an end, and, indeed, provided some additional funding to the national museum to assist with the costs of meeting an enhanced pay offer. That’s obviously recently been agreed with PCS members.

I think the question about whether the Cabinet Secretary can bring clarity to the relationship is very helpful. We do have, in fact, a framework document, which sets out our funding arrangements between sponsored bodies and the Government, but the Cabinet Secretary will clarify this, I think, helpfully in terms of not just the national museum but other sponsored bodies in terms of funding arrangements.

May I ask you, business manager, and in your role as leader of the house, for a statement by the Minister for the environment? There was an event held, as we’ve already heard, with environmentalists and farming and agricultural interests yesterday, and it was very interesting to hear that it is the Welsh Government’s intention to develop a specifically Welsh agriculture and fisheries policy. As we are facing a summer of shows and rural events, it would be very positive if the Government could consult on such a policy. You don’t have to have the policy written before the summer, just the principles, or even a clean state and just asking for ideas. So, if we could have either an oral or written statement from the Cabinet Secretary on the intention to develop such a policy and how that policy will proceed—.

And, secondly, could I also ask for a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Education on the Estyn report published today on pupil attainment for children in receipt of care: it shows that there has been some progress, but we are still a long way behind in terms of children in care, with 45 per cent of them not being in employment, education or training post 16. I’m sure that everyone would agree that that is not acceptable in Wales, and that we do need to make significant improvement in that area. So, it would be good to hear, again either orally or in written form, from the Cabinet Secretary for Education what the Government’s response to that report is, and what steps need to be taken in order to change the situation.

Ar nodyn mwy cadarnhaol, a allaf ofyn am ddatganiad gan y Gweinidog—nid wyf yn hollol siŵr o hyd pa Weinidog sy'n gyfrifol am chwaraeon cymunedol, efallai mai’r Gweinidog dros les ydyw neu efallai mai dirprwy ydyw, pwy a ŵyr, ond, beth bynnag, ddatganiad gan y Gweinidog sy'n gyfrifol am ochr gymunedol chwaraeon? Gan ein bod i gyd yn dymuno'n dda i Gymru yn y rownd gynderfynol nos yfory. Mae'n beth gwych i'w weld.  Y diddordeb hirdymor mewn pêl-droed y mae hyn wedi’i achosi—gan fy mod i’n siarad fel un o ddilynwyr y bêl arall, ond, er hynny, mae’r diddordeb i adeiladu ar hyn yn mynd i fod yn wych. A wnaiff hi ymuno â mi i gondemnio, yn y modd gorau posibl, y rhai hynny yn UEFA sy’n dymuno difetha’r hwyl ac sydd wedi dweud na ddylai tîm Cymru fynd â'u plant ar y cae ar ddiwedd y gêm? Ni allaf feddwl am neges fwy cadarnhaol y gallai tîm Cymru ei hanfon na chael merched ifanc a bechgyn yn cicio'r bêl o gwmpas ar ddiwedd gêm bêl-droed ryngwladol. Pan ydych chi’n gweld yr hyn y mae’r chwaraewyr eraill yn ei wneud yn gorymdeithio o amgylch eu hamrywiol ddilynwyr o wahanol fathau a'u nwyddau gwerthadwy, mae gweld chwaraewyr Cymru yn canolbwyntio ar eu teuluoedd ac ar bobl ifanc yn cymryd rhan yn neges wych iawn, iawn. Gallwn adeiladu ar hynny yng Nghymru, rwy'n siŵr. Credaf y bydd datganiad, ar ôl i ni ennill y rownd derfynol, gan y Gweinidog cyfrifol, yn gosod y naws gywir ar gyfer haf o chwaraeon yng Nghymru.

Diolch yn fawr, Simon Thomas. In response to your first question, as you’ve said, and as has been acknowledged this afternoon, the First Minister and the Cabinet Secretary for Environment and Rural Affairs, Lesley Griffiths, did meet yesterday key figures from Wales’s environment and agricultural sectors, particularly focusing on the implications of the UK’s decision to leave the European Union. As has already been said by the First Minister, it included farming union leaders, rural businesspeople, as well as representatives of environmental bodies, sharing their thoughts and challenges and opportunities. I know that the Minister will want to follow this up in terms of a statement to clarify not only the discussions but the next steps in terms of developing that Welsh Government policy response.

In response to your second question, following the Estyn report, the fact that this is—. Of course, we always welcome the publication of the report and I know the Cabinet Secretary will particularly want to focus on the points that you make in terms of progress, but also where more can be done, particularly in relation to the educational attainment prospects of looked-after children. The Cabinet Secretary will respond accordingly with a statement.

I think all our Cabinet Secretaries, all of the Welsh Government and, indeed, the whole Assembly will be wishing Wales well. Those who are lucky enough to be there to not only enjoy tomorrow but, of course, the final, when it comes, I’m sure, on Saturday—.

I think it’s very important that we actually see how our Welsh team have been such tremendous role models, as you said, Simon Thomas, and the way in which they have engaged young people and families; it has been very much a family supporters expression, hasn’t it? We can see that and we’re very proud of it. It has put Wales on the world map, because of not only the talent of our Welsh players, but also the spirit and the ethos in which they have played. So, I’m sure we wish Wales well, but also look to the legacy. I know that we will all want to congratulate and thank and recognise what they have demonstrated, not just winning the championship, but how they’ve done it.

Leader of the house, can I ask for two statements from the education Secretary? Last night, I had the pleasure of attending the Gwent Music summer showcase concert at St David’s Hall, with music from schools right across south-east Wales. This regional collaboration across schools should be celebrated and promoted, I’m sure you’ll agree, and so any additional support, financial or otherwise, from the Welsh Government, would be very much appreciated. So, I wonder if we could have a statement from the education Secretary on what is being done to support programmes such as Gwent Music showcase across other parts of Wales.

Secondly, this lunchtime, I visited the British Council event in Tŷ Hywel, which I know a number of Members went to, which was trying to promote the teaching of modern languages across Wales. There has been, as I’m sure the Cabinet is aware, a drop-off in the teaching of foreign languages across Wales in recent years, rather than the increase that we would like to see, and I think, comparative with England, the situation is worse here. So, could we have a statement on what can be done to try and arrest this decline in the teaching of modern foreign languages in schools across Wales, so that Welsh pupils are just as able as pupils from across the rest of the UK—including Scotland, where they’re ahead of the game—in making sure that we are not insular but looking out to the world and able to compete on the global stage?

Thank you, Nick Ramsay. I’m sure the Gwent Music showcase was a tremendous display of talent and skill, but also of the professional expertise and commitment that went in from the music and education professions. And, of course, it would have been a partnership, I’m sure, with local government, as well as schools, and I know the Cabinet Secretary will be very interested to see the outcome of that in south-east Wales.

Of course, the other event that you mention is very important—the British Council event that you attended. We are working with the British Council, and also language institutes and universities across the world, to arrest and reverse the decline in the take-up of modern foreign languages. In fact, I recall an event in my own constituency, in Bryn Hafren school, which is taking the lead—in each consortium there is a lead school—when ‘Global Futures’ was published last year. That is a five-year plan to improve and promote modern foreign languages. So, I’m sure the Cabinet Secretary will want to update on how that is being delivered, but the British Council, and their language institute, is a key player in that ‘Global Futures’ development.

We are a very welcoming people in Wales, known for our hospitality and warmth. So, I wonder if the leader of the house may share my disappointment that, despite our very best efforts on the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee, which I now chair, following on from the expert stewardship of Mr David Melding, the Secretary of State has so far declined our invitation to come and give evidence on the Wales Bill. Now, despite the cautious welcome given to parts of this latest Bill, significant concerns are still being expressed by leading constitutional and legal experts on the potential roll-back of devolution, and the Secretary of State, quite frankly, is the only one who can respond to these concerns. So, I wonder if the leader of the house could, perhaps, together with our Presiding Officer, in seeking to safeguard the interests of the Assembly and the people of Wales, use their influence and good offices to encourage the Secretary of State for Wales to come and visit us, pointing out that it’s not just desirable and reasonable, but actually essential and indeed helpful to good scrutiny that the Secretary of State for Wales accepts our warm and polite invitation to come home to Wales.

Of course, Huw Irranca-Davies, and others in this Chamber, will have the opportunity to extend that invitation again very visibly and vocally tomorrow afternoon, in the Queen’s Speech debate. I can understand your disappointment that the invitation to the Secretary of State for Wales has been declined, because it is so important, and in our mutual best interest, to progress with the Wales Bill. But I await the invitation to be posed yet again tomorrow afternoon, I’m sure more openly, in the Queen’s Speech debate.

I wonder whether we could have a Government update statement, leader of the house, on an issue that I’ve raised before. This is the issue of—. This Chamber makes legislation and the Government makes policy, on the basis of taking children’s rights into account; obviously, we’ve committed to the due regard principle in taking the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child into account. Unfortunately, most of the delivery that is done on the back of our legislation and policy is by public bodies, which are not committed in exactly the same way, and successive Ministers have been kind enough to acknowledge that there is a potential gap there, where a failure of policy aims could take place. I think it would be a reassurance to all of us here in the Chamber if we could have some update on progress of work done by the Welsh Government, speaking with public bodies, to ensure that the policy objectives of this place are not undermined by competing pressures on local authorities, for example, when it comes to deciding how they should take children’s rights into account in making their own decisions.

Well, I’m sure that the Minister for communities and children would welcome that opportunity to clarify how seriously the Welsh Government takes its commitment to the UNCRC, to ensure that children’s rights underline all our policy objectives, and, indeed, financial and budgetary purposes and objectives as well. That is part of our strategic integrated impact assessment, and, of course, it accompanies draft and final budget papers from the Welsh Government. But it is for the Minister for communities and children to, again, respond to this in terms of, I’m sure, an update, and he will be open to questions and opportunities at committee and at oral Assembly question level.

I’d like to request two Government statements, please, Secretary. Firstly, in the light of the Office for National Statistics report on avoidable mortality in England and Wales last week, whether we might have a statement on public health and the preventative health agenda, which is one important aspect of dealing with avoidable mortality, and perhaps setting us firmly on a more proactive health agenda, rather than reactive. I wonder whether we might have a Government statement that sets out the current Government’s thinking on that preventative health and public health agenda.

Secondly, I wonder whether we might have a statement on community-focused schools. I think it’s very important that we take forward policy effectively and consistently across Wales, because I think, at the current time, there are some very good examples of community-focused schools, but it is quite patchy. I’m very interested in, and I think Members here generally would be very interested in, the mechanisms and actions that can achieve consistently community-focused schools, right across Wales. Because I think it’s well recognised that achieving a partnership between home and school, and community and school, is the most effective way forward if we are to improve educational standards. We spend a lot of money on our school buildings, and to see them—some of them—lying idle at evenings, weekends, and holidays is not a good use of public resource. Also, in terms of widening access to sport, physical activity and cultural activities, it’s very advantageous if we can have that community-focused school approach in that regard as well. And, finally, I think it’s extremely important that we ensure that not just the twenty-first century schools programme—important though that is—but also, in terms of our existing school stock, we have a community-focused approach. Without that, we wouldn’t have the consistency of approach that I believe we need, across Wales.

Well, the Member for Newport East does raise some very important questions, particularly looking at that recent ONS survey. It did present the latest figures on avoidable mortality for England and Wales, and it did show those 2014 figures for the first time. But the Cabinet Secretary for Health, Well-being and Sport did make an oral statement recently on the headline messages from the Welsh health survey, which is our way of looking at the overview of the state of the nation’s health. They, of course, have a strong bearing on how we address those figures from the ONS report. But also, I believe the commitments that we’ve made in our manifesto do build on the very strong platform that we’ve put in place to implement appropriate public health interventions.

On to your second point about community-focused schools, this is something where there’s no question that we have to use our school facilities not only to benefit pupils’ families but also the wider communities. We also need to look at this from the perspective of community use of assets. You’ve mentioned sporting facilities, but also co-location of key services. Quite a lot of our initiatives, like Flying Start, are also located in our school premises, but we also know, in terms of adult learning initiatives and school facilities, and indeed their grounds and sports facilities, of course—we need to use to the fullest extent. The previous Minister for Education and Skills did ask the Public Policy Institute for Wales to provide a review and advice on how school facilities can be used more extensively, so I would draw the Member’s attention to their report, ‘Increasing the Use of School Facilities’, which was published last March. I know that the Cabinet Secretary is considering this report and its recommendations.

I just wanted to ask a business question based on the fact that I wanted to have a statement on Government involvement in the setting up of fanzones across Wales, especially in light of the semi-finals. I’m getting quite a lot of messages as we speak here today of people who haven’t been able to get tickets for the Principality Stadium—fans who’ve followed the matches throughout the tournament. I was wondering whether we could have a statement on your involvement as a Government, and also to see whether you would appeal to Cardiff Council to open Cooper’s field as well as the stadium so that those people are not losing out, and also condemn those people today who are selling on free tickets. This is a free event and should not be made as a profit for those people who want to support the Wales football team in the semi-finals. I would urge you to take urgent action given that this is happening tomorrow, and perhaps we could have a statement from the Minister.

This is something where, of course, we want to ensure that people can attend those local fanzones. They’ve become extremely popular. It’s obviously for the local authorities to ensure that arrangements are made, and to actually provide funding support for them. Also, of course, fans can enjoy the game by supporting local businesses, pubs and restaurants as well. But I think on the point you made—the very concerning point about how people try to exploit on these occasions in terms of selling on free tickets—we’re going to have a strong statement, which we’re making, I think, as a result of your question today. The Cabinet Secretary will share that with me. I think the message, of course, overall—and responding earlier on to Simon Thomas—is that wherever you watch the game, let’s get behind Chris Coleman and the boys and do our best to cheer them on for another famous win.

I endorse Nick Ramsay’s comments about modern foreign languages, where we heard that those most likely to be adversely affected were pupils in the more disadvantaged areas. I call for two statements, the first on bullying. Today is Stand up to Bullying Day as part of the Stand up to Bullying campaign, aiming for individuals, local communities, schools and businesses to stand up to bullying and ensure their pupils or employees are provided with effective support to tackle the problem. We regularly hear in this place—in this Chamber, in committee, and in our own casework—of people who are still being bullied on the grounds of sexuality, impairment, condition or other factors. I know it’s something previous Welsh Governments have given much attention to, but we see figures here: that 68 per cent of young people polled knew of somebody who had been cyber bullied and 81 per cent reported bullying as commonplace in schools, admittedly UK and not Welsh-specific figures, but meriting a statement accordingly.

Finally, a Welsh Government statement, if I could call for this, on digital communications in the context of Ofcom’s digital communication review, which concluded that reforming Openreach was critical to improving the telecoms market in creating a more independent and customer-centric service within BT. I ask this because, and in the context, of the letter that’s gone to the chief executive of Ofcom from the communication network’s industry coalition representing millions of broadband customers, and who will be charged with delivering the next generation of digital networks. We hear every week in this Chamber Members raising issues about broadband and mobile connectivity in their own areas, and, clearly, this will be critical to that agenda.

Thank you, Mark Isherwood, for drawing attention to the Stand Up to Bullying Day, the focus today that, I know, we would all share. Indeed, I know that the Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Children is looking at the policies—it’s something that, actually, is shared across the Cabinet; the education Secretary, of course—in terms of tackling bullying. We have a week’s focus in November, usually, on tackling bullying. I think you mentioned cyber bullying, but, also, we know we are greatly concerned that some of the rise in hate crimes could also have a bearing on children and young people as well, and we need to make sure that we are monitoring that and responding to it appropriately. It is very important that we are now, again, focusing on that and that the Cabinet Secretaries with appropriate responsibilities are looking at this very carefully.

I think we have to, in terms of your second point, recognise that not only is the Welsh Government at the forefront in terms of delivering on our digital infrastructure in terms of superfast broadband, not only delivering it with our money, but also, of course, delivering it thanks to the funding from the European Union, of course, so much threatened now in terms of Brexit, but obviously recognising it is a partnership that is near to reaching, of course, its target, and it will be right at the forefront in terms of Wales leading the way.

And finally, Andrew R.T. Davies.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. Leader of the house, is it possible to have a statement from the economy Secretary in relation to business rates. The incoming Government was very clear in its manifesto commitment that it was going to be making a commitment on business rates, specifically to uplift, obviously, the margin that businesses, or the threshold, should I say, that businesses would be captured by the business rate regime. The summer show season, eisteddfods—call them what you will—are all happening over the next eight weeks. Many Members will be engaging with businesses and organisations, and some sort of understanding of the Government’s thinking about how it’s going to take this commitment forward, and, indeed, the level of threshold that the Government will be bringing forward, I think would greatly inform the dialogue that Members will be having at events throughout the summer. So, a statement before the recess would be greatly appreciated.

Well, of course, Andrew R.T. Davies knows that the non-domestic rates, business rates, were fully devolved on 1 April 2015. Now, Welsh Government is responsible for all aspects of management of the non-domestic rates pool. And, of course, that includes risks associated with balancing income reliefs and payments. So, revaluation of non-domestic properties is currently under way and will come into effect on 1 April 2017, and this will update, of course, valuations of non-domestic properties. But, it is for the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government to respond to this point, and I’m sure he will be providing updates.

Thank you, Minister.

We now move to the next item, which is item 3: motion in accordance with Standing Order 17.2T in respect of Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister. I call on a member of the Business Committee to move the motion—Simon Thomas.

Formally.

Formally. As there are no other speakers on this item, the proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? As there are no objections, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

The next item on our agenda is motions to agree membership of committees. There are 13 motions under this item and they will be discussed together. I call on a member of the Business Committee to move the motions—Simon Thomas.

I move.

I therefore call on Mark Reckless to speak.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. I understand no-one has ever objected, previously, in the history of the Assembly to the establishment of the committees. However, UKIP are not beholden by that prior consensus. We intend to vote today against the establishment of the policy and legislative committees on the basis agreed by the other business managers. The reason we do this is that equality, 4:4, does not constitute party balance. The secretariat of the Business Committee initially advised us that it did not constitute party balance. What changed on that—[Interruption.] I’m back. On that, nothing changed.

However, the other parties did a deal with Labour to give way on that point in exchange for some plum committee chairmanships, particularly in respect of Plaid, who chair not just the Finance Committee but two policy and legislative committees. Thanks to that, the combined opposition will not be able to amend Bills against the Government. That great victory of Leanne Wood in Rhondda, which reduced Labour from equality 30 in the Assembly to just 29 against 30 of combined opposition, and with no longer a Liberal Democrat group and with the Liberal Democrat Member only entitled to one committee place were she to wish to take it up, that is a very substantive change in what this Assembly is because we cannot amend legislation in committee were the opposition to be united on any particular course against the Government. That has been given away, I would assert, in return for a number of plum chairmanships.

UKIP will not be party to that deal. We will, however, treat the arrangements agreed by others with respect. We will chair our committee in a considered way on the basis of the evidence and we will contribute to all committees to the best of our ability. Thank you.

I note at the end there that UKIP are opposing the membership of the committees but are taking up the chairmanship of a committee, which has been very beneficial to them. The fact that—every Member must know this—we have an Assembly with 60 Members, 29 from the Government and 31 from the opposition, means that you cannot replicate 29 and 31 on committees of eight. You have to go to a system called D'Hondt. We beat D'Hondt last week in the Belgium game, but we don’t want to go there, I don’t think. D'Hondt would have meant that UKIP, in fact, did not have a member on every committee. It would have, in fact, meant that UKIP often did not have a member on committees. Now, Plaid Cymru support—

Will the Member give way?

Certainly, I’ll give way.

D'Hondt wouldn’t have meant anything of the sort. Even on a committee of seven, UKIP would have had one member according to D'Hondt.

You’re simply incorrect. You’d have 0.7 member. That’s what D'Hondt would have worked out for you. On a smaller committee, you would not have had a member—for example, public accounts or finance, which you have members on.

Will the Member give way again?

Not now. I’ve responded to your question. Plaid Cymru’s response to this has been very clear. We want to see political balance across the committee structure. We think it’s very important that opposition Chairs are in charge of vital committees such as finance and public accounts, and we think it’s equally important that we have arrangements on policy and legislative committees that actually deliver workable Welsh law. At the end of the day, the committees are there to scrutinise and to undertake several stages of legislation, but all legislation comes back to this Assembly, where we have a job of work to do. If we do unite as an opposition, we can vote down the Government on all legislation, and I’m sure we will if we can reach agreement on those issues. But what’s very important, I think, is we have workable committees and good, effective Chairs, independently elected for the first time. This is a big step forward for the strengthening of this Assembly as a proper parliament, and it’s in that spirit that Plaid Cymru has agreed to these arrangements. It also means, yes, what have been described as ‘plum committee Chairs’—I would more describe as important, political chairships—are in the hands of opposition parties, and I think that is important as well, particularly when we come to scrutiny of finance and health. These are all things that will revitalise, I hope, the way that our committees work in the Assembly. For that reason, I ask the Assembly to support them so that we move on with our committee work.

I propose therefore that the votes on the motions to elect members to the seven policy and legislation committees are grouped unless there are any objections to that. The proposal, therefore, is to agree the motions for elections to the seven legislation and policy committees. Does any Member object? [Objection.] I will, therefore, defer voting on these motions until voting time.

I now move to motions to elect members to the other six specialist committees. Unless there are any objections, I propose that the votes on the motions to elect members to the six specialist committees are grouped. The proposal is to agree the motions. Does any Member object? As there are no objections, these motions are agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

We now move to item 5, which is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government on tax devolution and the fiscal framework. I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Mark Drakeford.

Thank you, Llywydd. In 2018 the Welsh Government, at a national level, will raise its own money to spend on public services for the first time in almost 800 years. This will happen when stamp duty land tax and landfill tax are devolved. This marks an important step in our devolution journey and will be a significant change in the way in which public services are funded.

My predecessor, Jane Hutt, began the process of preparing for this change with the introduction of what is now the Tax Collection and Management (Wales) Act 2016. This legislation was passed unanimously by the fourth National Assembly. To realise the potential of these devolved taxes in full, the Welsh Government will introduce two further Bills. One will be on the land transaction tax and anti-avoidance of devolved taxes and the other will be on the landfill disposals tax.

The Welsh taxes will be fair, and we will ensure that they are as simple as they can be. They will provide stability and certainty to taxpayers and will support jobs and growth. I will focus on our commitments to the well-being of future generations in the development and implementation of our tax policy.

A draft of the land transaction tax and anti-avoidance of devolved tax Bill is published today. This is a long and technical Bill. By publishing a draft of this Bill, I hope that it will give Assembly Members, interested stakeholders and the public time to familiarise themselves with the aims and the structure of its provisions before it is introduced into the Assembly in the autumn.

The public consultation on both the land transaction tax and the landfill disposals tax highlighted the desire for consistency with current UK taxes. Llywydd, I want to be clear: we will not change anything for change’s sake. Our proposals are designed to ensure that the situation becomes more efficient and effective and to ensure a focus on Welsh needs and priorities.

Lywydd, ers diwedd yr ymgynghoriad ar ein deddfwriaeth arfaethedig, ynglŷn â threth trafodiadau tir, rwy’n ymwybodol o'r newidiadau y mae Llywodraethau’r DU a’r Alban wedi eu gwneud i’w trethi eu hunain, yn enwedig y dreth ychwanegol ar ail gartrefi. Ymgynghorwyd ynglŷn â'r newidiadau yn y DU yng Nghymru a Lloegr eleni, ac ar hyn o bryd mae'r ddeddfwriaeth ar ei ffordd drwy Senedd y DU. Byddaf yn cyhoeddi ymgynghoriad technegol am ddull polisi Cymru i sicrhau bod trethdalwyr, asiantau a rhanddeiliaid ehangach yn cael cyfle i gyfrannu eu barn ynglŷn â sut y gallai hyn weithio yng Nghymru, gyda'r bwriad o gyflwyno hyn yn ystod y broses o graffu ar y dreth trafodiadau tir a’r Bil gwrth-osgoi trethi datganoledig.

I droi yn awr at y dreth gwarediadau tirlenwi, defnyddir elfen ar dreth bresennol y DU i gefnogi cronfa cymunedau tirlenwi. Yn ystod yr ymgynghoriad cyhoeddus ar ddisodli’r dreth honno yng Nghymru, cafwyd amrywiaeth eang o safbwyntiau ynghylch yr hyn a ddylai ddigwydd i'r gronfa ar ôl datganoli'r dreth. Mae'r gronfa wedi chwarae rhan bwysig wrth gefnogi cymunedau sy'n agos at safleoedd tirlenwi ac rwy'n falch o gadarnhau y prynhawn yma fy mod i’n bwriadu sefydlu cynllun cymunedau treth gwarediadau tirlenwi i barhau â'r gwaith gwerthfawr hwn yng Nghymru.

Lywydd, bydd Aelodau'n ymwybodol fy mod yn ddiweddar wedi cadarnhau fy mhenderfyniad mai Awdurdod Refeniw Cymru fydd yn arwain y gwaith o gasglu a rheoli’r dreth trafodiadau tir a’r dreth gwarediadau tirlenwi a byddant yn gweithio'n uniongyrchol gyda Chyfoeth Naturiol Cymru ar gydymffurfiad a gorfodi'r dreth gwarediadau tirlenwi. Byddwn yn cynnal ein perthynas adeiladol a chadarnhaol gyda Chyllid a Thollau EM i ddatblygu sgiliau, arbenigedd a gallu o fewn Cymru ym maes gweinyddu treth. Rwy’n disgwyl i Awdurdod Refeniw Cymru ddarparu gwasanaeth o safon uchel i alluogi trethdalwyr Cymru i dalu'r swm cywir o dreth ar yr adeg gywir, yn ogystal â bod yn gadarn ynglŷn ag osgoi talu trethi. Yn yr hydref, bydd y broses o benodi cadeirydd Awdurdod Refeniw Cymru yn dechrau. Bydd y cadeirydd yn gweithio ochr yn ochr â chyfarwyddwr gweithredu Awdurdod Refeniw Cymru i greu'r tîm arweinyddiaeth cywir. Rwy’n rhagweld y bydd y bwrdd llawn wedi’i sefydlu chwe mis cyn i'r awdurdod ddechrau ar y gwaith o gasglu a rheoli trethi datganoledig Cymru.

Ar ôl i’r trethi datganoledig gael eu cyflwyno, bydd rhan o gyllideb Llywodraeth Cymru yn y dyfodol yn dibynnu ar refeniw trethi datganoledig. Gan na fydd Llywodraeth y DU yn cael y refeniw hwnnw mwyach, gwneir gostyngiad cyfatebol i grant bloc Cymru. Bydd y fethodoleg ar gyfer cyfrifo hyn wedi’i nodi mewn fframwaith cyllidol newydd i Gymru, a drafodir â Phrif Ysgrifennydd y Trysorlys ac rwy’n credu y dylai fod gan y Cynulliad hwn y pŵer i’w dderbyn neu ei wrthod. Bydd y trafodaethau hyn yn ystyried sut y dylai'r addasiad i grant bloc Cymru adlewyrchu datganoli llawn treth dir y dreth stamp a threth tirlenwi a sut y dylai weithredu os caiff treth incwm ei datganoli’n rhannol. Yn rhan o'r trefniadau newydd, byddaf hefyd yn ceisio cael eglurhad manwl o sut y defnyddir y llawr cyllid ac am gynnydd yn ein terfyn benthyca cyfalaf.

Lywydd, yn ystod y tymor diwethaf, roedd consensws cryf yn bodoli ar draws y Cynulliad hwn am yr angen i sicrhau bargen ariannu deg i Gymru ochr yn ochr â'n cyfrifoldebau cyllidol newydd. Mae’r consensws hwnnw wedi bod yn fantais ymarferol yn ein trafodaethau â’r Trysorlys. Bydd fframwaith cyllidol synhwyrol yn paratoi'r ffordd i gyflwyno cyfraddau treth incwm i Gymru—penderfyniad yr wyf yn glir y dylai ddal i gael ei wneud gan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol.

O ystyried y ffaith bod treth teithwyr awyr wedi’i hepgor o Fil Cymru, byddwn yn parhau i bwyso am, o leiaf, ddatganoli treth teithwyr awyr pellter hir uniongyrchol i Gymru. Byddai hyn yn sicrhau cydraddoldeb â Gogledd Iwerddon.

Presiding Officer, taxes fund the Welsh public services that we all rely on. The devolution of taxes will provide Wales with the opportunity to take a more rounded, integrated and long-term view of its finances. The ability to raise taxes provides Wales with an opportunity to involve people in decisions about the levels and extent of raising revenue and also about decisions about how that money is to be spent, and I look forward to hearing Assembly Members’ comments this afternoon. Thank you.

May I also thank the Cabinet Secretary for this statement? It’s right to say that it is a historic statement. The Secretary follows in the footsteps of Richard of Mold, who was the last treasurer of Llywelyn ap Gruffudd in 1283. However, it wasn’t possible for the Owain Glyndŵr parliament to raise taxes, because it’s quite difficult to raise taxes when at war, but at least the Secretary isn’t facing that difficulty. But he does make a fundamentally important point, of course, namely that the essence of democracy—the national democracy that the people of Wales have voted for twice—is the ability, of course, not only to make laws, but also to raise taxes and, in so doing, ensuring that there is real accountability for the services that we offer from the point of view of our society and the future that we can create together for our nation.

Nawr, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, fel yr ydych yn ei gydnabod yn eich datganiad, un rhan hanfodol o ddatganoli treth, a gwneud hynny’n llwyddiannus, yw fframwaith cyllidol clir ac ymarferol. Un peth a fydd yn allweddol i hyn, ac, yn anochel, y cur pen mwyaf mewn trafodaethau gyda Thrysorlys y DU, fydd y ffordd y caiff grant bloc Cymru ei addasu i adlewyrchu trosglwyddo pwerau codi refeniw treth i Lywodraeth Cymru. Mynegodd Llywodraeth flaenorol Cymru bryderon am yr addasiad a wnaethpwyd ar ôl datganoli trethi annomestig. Mae peryglon datganoli treth incwm yn rhannol yn glir. Byddwch yn ymwybodol o astudiaeth gan Ganolfan Llywodraethiant Cymru a ddangosodd fod y dosbarthiad incwm gwahanol iawn yng Nghymru o'i chymharu â Lloegr yn golygu y bydd methu ag amrywio'r trothwy, er enghraifft, yn peri anawsterau mawr. Ac felly gallai mecanwaith anghywir gostio cannoedd o filiynau i gyllideb Cymru bob blwyddyn.

A wnaiff yr Ysgrifennydd roi rhai manylion pellach inni am safbwynt Llywodraeth Cymru ar addasu grant bloc a mynegeio, yn enwedig pa fecanweithiau penodol y mae’r Llywodraeth yn eu ffafrio; sut y mae'n bwriadu ymdrin â thwf gwahaniaethol yn y boblogaeth, mewn ffurflenni treth, mewn twf economaidd; pa weithdrefn sy'n cael ei chynnig ar gyfer sicrhau cytundeb ynglŷn â pha un a yw newid treth yn ymarferol; sut i wahaniaethu rhwng effeithiau gradd un a gradd dau; a pha broses apeliadau neu drefn datrys anghydfodau fydd ar waith os yw Llywodraethau’r DU a Chymru yn anghytuno?

Bu llawer o sôn am yr egwyddorion dim niwed a thegwch i’r trethdalwr sy'n tanlinellu fframwaith cyllidol yr Alban, ond onid yw Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn derbyn, yn achos Cymru, un o rannau cyfansoddol tlotaf y Deyrnas Unedig ar hyn o bryd, y dylai fod Llywodraeth y DU yn barod i ganiatáu nid egwyddor dim niwed, efallai, ond egwyddor bonws treth a fyddai’n caniatáu i ni yng Nghymru elwa’n anghymesur ar newidiadau treth fel math o bolisi rhanbarthol? Yn benodol o ran treth incwm, a fydd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn gofyn am gymaint â phosibl o hyblygrwydd ar ddatganoli treth incwm, gan gynnwys y pŵer i addasu lwfansau a throthwyon a chreu bandiau newydd?

Mae'n sôn am y trafodaethau â’r Trysorlys; a allai ddweud ychydig mwy am ein sefyllfa yn y broses honno? A yw eisoes wedi cael cyfarfod ar lefel weinidogol, a sut y bydd yn bwrw ymlaen â’r broses honno dros yr haf?

Parhaodd y trafodaethau rhwng Llywodraeth yr Alban a'r Trysorlys am fframwaith cyllidol yr Alban am oddeutu 11 mis. Un feirniadaeth i'r trafodaethau hynny oedd y diffyg tryloywder. Rydych yn dweud yn eich datganiad—ac rydym yn croesawu hyn—y dylai fod gan y Cynulliad hwn y pŵer i dderbyn neu wrthod fframwaith newydd. A allwch chi hefyd roi sicrwydd inni y bydd gan y Cynulliad ddigon o gyfle i gyfrannu at y trafodaethau hynny a chraffu arnynt, a chytuno ar yr egwyddorion sylfaenol ymlaen llaw? Mae hyn yn gwbl hanfodol o ystyried ein profiad o fformiwla Barnett, a gafodd, wrth gwrs, ei chyflwyno heb ymgynghori ar ddiwedd yr 1970au, ac nad yw erioed wedi ei diwygio er gwaethaf ei hannhegwch amlwg.

I thank the Member for those comments, and I thank him for informing me that some things are very difficult to do here, but not quite like doing it in a state of war.

Cyfres o gwestiynau pwysig iawn gan Adam Price, a’n man cychwyn ni yw'r un lle y dechreuodd yntau hefyd—sef bod atebolrwydd democrataidd yn ymwneud yn gryf â bod sefydliadau sy'n gwario arian yn gyfrifol am godi arian yn ogystal. Fodd bynnag, mae cael y gyfres gywir o gytundebau i Gymru yn gwbl hanfodol. Fel arall, bydd yr egwyddor sylfaenol honno o atebolrwydd democrataidd wedi’i erydu'n angheuol os cawn ni ein dal yn gyfrifol am ganlyniadau penderfyniadau nad ydynt yn cael eu gwneud o fewn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol hwn. Yn yr ystyr hwnnw, mae’r Aelod yn llygad ei le i ddweud bod y methodolegau a fydd yn sail i'r fframwaith cyllidol yn gwbl hanfodol, y bydd yn rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â chwestiynau fel y rhai a gafodd eu hateb yng nghytundeb yr Alban am newidiadau yn y boblogaeth a bod yn glir, fel yr wyf yn ei gredu, na allwn ni fod yn gyfrifol am newidiadau yn y boblogaeth sy'n cael eu sbarduno gan benderfyniadau nad ydynt yn perthyn yma yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol.

Rwy’n cytuno ag ef bod modd o adolygu’r system yn annibynnol yn bwysig iawn. Mae’r Alban wedi sicrhau adolygiad annibynnol yn 2021 i wneud yn siŵr bod y system yno’n gweithio yn y ffordd a fwriadwyd ac ni fyddwn yn disgwyl dim llai i ni yma yng Nghymru.

Cyn belled â ble y mae trafodaethau â’r Trysorlys wedi’i gyrraedd, rwyf wedi cael un drafodaeth hyd yn hyn yn uniongyrchol â Phrif Ysgrifennydd y Trysorlys. Mae gennyf gyfarfod wedi’i drefnu gydag ef ar gyfer 21 Gorffennaf ac yn fy nhrafodaeth wreiddiol ag ef, gwnaethom gytuno ei bod yn debygol, i mi, y byddem yn cyfarfod bob mis yn ystod yr hydref er mwyn cadarnhau rhai o'r manylion y bydd y fframwaith cyllidol priodol yn dibynnu arnynt. Rwy’n gobeithio na wnaiff hyn gymryd cymaint o amser ag a wnaeth yn yr Alban, ac rydym yn ffodus ein bod yn dilyn yr Alban o amgylch y llwybr hwn ac rydym wedi bod yn ffodus iawn bod ein cydweithwyr yn yr Alban wedi cydweithredu’n helaeth â ni, i’n galluogi i elwa ar eu profiad a chael rhywfaint o fewnwelediad i'r trafodaethau a ddigwyddodd.

Rwy'n meddwl bod llawer yng nghytundeb yr Alban sy'n rhoi man cychwyn da iawn i ni ar gyfer ein trafodaethau wrth i ni ddechrau arnynt yn yr hydref. Mae'n hanfodol i mi bod gan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol gyfle i barhau i graffu ar y darlun sy'n datblygu yn y trafodaethau hynny, yn rhannol oherwydd yr hoffwn wneud yn siŵr fy mod yn gallu ateb unrhyw gwestiynau sydd gan Aelodau, ond hefyd oherwydd y pwynt a wnes i yn fy natganiad sef ein bod, yn y Cynulliad diwethaf, pan oeddem yn gallu cytuno ar rai pethau craidd pwysig a oedd yn bwysig ar draws y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol cyfan, bod hynny yna'n cryfhau ein siawns yn sylweddol o gynnal y dadleuon hynny y bydd yn rhaid i ni eu cael ar ben arall yr M4.

Cabinet Secretary, I’m pleased to see that you’re carrying on with your predecessor’s enthusiasm for the first Welsh taxes in 800 years. I suppose it’s a bit too much to expect the public to be enthusiastic about paying taxes, but at least the enthusiasm is with you with a mind on history and the thirteenth century indeed.

This does, indeed, represent a fundamental change in the devolved settlement. Firstly, I support your desire for Welsh taxes to be as simple as possible. I’m pleased that you are carrying on with the policy that taxes here should only differ from those across the border and other parts of the UK if absolutely necessary. How are you going to ensure this simplicity and what have you done to reassure stakeholders that the tax regime that develops in Wales will be as simple and straightforward as possible?

I appreciate the legislation process for taxes such as LTT will be complex; I’m sure you agree that it’s important that we get this right. You did touch on this, but what are you doing to draw on experience of tax devolution in Scotland? As you said earlier, they have made some mistakes there, such as developing the legislation for Revenue Scotland way after they started the process of developing individual taxes. They learnt a number of lessons; have you learnt those lessons—well, you clearly have, because you’ve done it the other way around—but what other lessons has the Welsh Government learnt, and, indeed, what can we teach Scotland in this area, Secretary? I’m sure that there are things there—this is a two-way process.

I’m pleased you intend to maintain a constructive relationship with HMRC. How confident are you at this early stage that HMRC will be fit for purpose in the Welsh context? Scotland, initially, were going to rely very heavily on HMRC, but as things transpired and developed, they relied on them less, and I think they gave Revenue Scotland a lot more of the role that HMRC were originally going to take because of cost reasons and efficiency reasons. Do you envisage the Welsh Revenue Authority having a similar wider responsibility in future in taking on some of that responsibility itself?

You’ve mentioned, towards the end of your statement, the fiscal framework. As you know, and as I’ve told you in the past, you have cross-party support on the development of a proper fiscal framework. I think there’s general agreement that we cannot go on as we are, particularly with the imminent devolution of these taxes to Wales.

I’ve spoken repeatedly and asked you questions about my concerns over block grant reductions in the wake of tax devolution, including income tax devolution. Can you update us, as Adam Price asked you, on any discussions with the Treasury on mechanisms of calculating the block grant reduction in the first year and, also, the options for indexing future reductions? These clearly aren’t discussions that are the talk of pubs across Wales, but these are very important to getting tax devolution right.

In terms of future reductions, firstly, how will inflation be taken into account? With the decision to leave the European Union and costlier imports, there is general consensus that there’s a risk of higher inflation over the medium term. So, the indexing for inflation becomes increasingly important, even more so than it was before. Secondly, you already mentioned the issue of population change. The Scottish Government has dealt with this and there is an agreement with Westminster that any detrimental change in population will not be borne by the Scottish proportion of income tax, but by the UK as a whole. Are you seeking similar assurances from the Treasury? I’m more than happy to make that case with you. This is a good example of where we do need to see equity across the UK. Yes, we all agree with the need for fiscal accountability and the need for Welsh Government to bear the risk associated with the fiscal decisions that you take, but you should not have to bear the risk associated with UK decisions as a whole. We need to entangle those two.

Finally, Presiding Officer, you mention the need for some kind of future mediation if the amount of money we get through the Barnett formula and fiscal framework is not what the Welsh Government feels that we should be getting. I’m casting my mind back to some of the Finance Committee evidence sessions from the last Assembly. There was a suggestion that we could develop a UK body that would deal with mediating problems like this, so that it wouldn’t be simply a case of a bilateral discussion between you and the Westminster Government. What are your thoughts, in the future, on some kind of body that could provide that mediation? Would you like to see a return to the quadrilateral discussions that your predecessor had a number of years ago, before they were replaced by bilateral discussions? I think the quadrilateral discussions, from my discussions with Jane Hutt, were very useful in moving forward.

I thank Nick Ramsay for those important questions. My starting point is the same as his. We want the system to be as understandable and simple as possible, albeit that some of these matters are inherently complex and are the province of people who are experts in the field. I believe that the journey that we are on should begin with as little difference as necessary between the system we have already and the system that we will create, while building in sufficient flexibility to our system to allow for differentiation in the future, should Welsh policy needs require us to move in that direction. In the short term, it is very important that those people who work the system day in, day out see the system that will replace it as recognisably the one that they are used to, in order to be able to go on providing a smooth service to members of the public, but we want to have, inherent in the legislation that we will bring forward, the ability for that to develop and mature.

As far as lessons that we have learned from Scotland, as I said to Adam Price, we’ve been very fortunate, I think, in the level of assistance that we’ve been afforded by colleagues in Scotland and continue to be afforded. One of the lessons that we’ve learned from Revenue Scotland underpins the decision that I published in the written statement on Friday to make the Welsh Revenue Authority the lead on the collection and management of land transaction tax and landfill disposals tax, and on compliance and enforcement of land transaction tax. A year ago, we thought that the balance of arguments was slightly in favour of allowing HMRC to go on doing that on our behalf. But, Revenue Scotland’s first-year experience, I think, gives us confidence that it’s possible for us to take on that tax more directly ourselves. I think that’s a good investment in building up the system that we will need for the future. We need to continue to have constructive relationships with HMRC in the meantime because there is expertise there that we will need to draw on. We have good offers from HMRC of seconding staff to us in Wales, in the short run, to help us build up that expertise, and a continuing dialogue with them to assist us in setting up our systems here.

Nick Ramsay has very regularly and effectively raised the whole issue of the fiscal framework on the floor of the Assembly and the need for a block grant adjustment mechanism that protects the position of Welsh taxpayers and people who rely on Welsh services. The first year is not the problem, as he implied. You simply substitute what we will have or what we would have had in subsequent years, but we have to make sure that the mechanism is robust enough to take account of inflation. I would certainly expect that we will have a similar system to that which they negotiated in Scotland on the issue of population, but there are other differences. Adam Price referred to the work of the Wales Governance Centre on the differential impact that raising the tax threshold has in Wales compared to other parts of the United Kingdom. We will have to negotiate those matters over the autumn as well.

On the issue of future mediation and the need for an impartial adjudication system, in Scotland they’ve agreed on using the Office for Budget Responsibility and the Scottish Fiscal Commission. We don’t have a commission of that sort here in Wales and I will be considering over the summer how we might mobilise a Welsh-specific form of expertise to match the independent advice that will continue to come from the OBR.

As far as the quadrilaterals are concerned, I certainly think it would be beneficial if they were revived. I’ve said that to the Chief Secretary to the Treasury already. In the meantime, I will meet finance Ministers from Scotland and Northern Ireland next week to make sure that we continue to share experience and expertise that we can collectively put to work in our negotiations with Whitehall.

I’m grateful to the Cabinet Secretary for his statement. As he says, these matters are inherently complex, and legislation is inevitably technical. This was brought home to me, at least with respect to this Assembly, should it be necessary, when seeking to familiarise myself with the procedures, at least to a degree. I watched, on the Parliament channel, his predecessor ably introducing the Tax Collection and Management (Wales) Bill—now Act—and I’m sure he will continue to undertake the role with similar ability.

I welcome, in particular, his statement that there will be no change for change’s sake, and now that he wishes to see—at least, initially—as little difference as possible between the system in Wales and the current UK system to which we are part; and a through-train approach that, at least for practitioners, I’m sure will be welcomed. I wonder whether I can ask him particularly about how that may affect the land transaction tax. He mentioned in his statement that this had been consulted on on an England and Wales basis and was currently going through the UK Parliament. Does that imply that he is happy with that approach, or may he be seeking to make changes to the applicability and basis of that tax when it is introduced expressly for Wales?

Second, I just wanted—. Towards the end of his statement he said that a sensible fiscal framework will pave the way to the introduction of Welsh rates of income tax. I was a little puzzled. He then said that he was clear that decision should continue to rest with the National Assembly. Is it not the case that, currently, that decision rests ultimately with a referendum of the Welsh people, and that he and the Conservative Government in Westminster are both seeking to change those arrangements to evade any such referendum? Well, perhaps after the decision 11 days ago of the Welsh people to vote against membership of the European Union, he isn’t so keen on referendums, but should we not at least accept that that is the current position, which he and the other Government at the UK level now seek to change?

I thank Mark Reckless for those questions. My message today about no change for change’s sake is based on the very clear message that came from stakeholders during our consultation on the land transfer tax. They were very strongly of the view that we needed a smooth transition from the existing law to the new law and that changes—and there will be changes that we will introduce—would be just the ones that are necessary while allowing the scope for greater changes in the future.

What I said in my statement—I apologise if I didn’t make this quite clear enough—was that, since we consulted on our land transaction tax proposals, there have been changes in Scotland and at the UK level that weren’t known at the time of the consultation, and I drew attention in particular to the additional rate on second homes, which only became part of the Scottish and UK landscape after our consultation had closed. I think Mr Reckless asked me whether that was a policy that I supported. Let me say that it’s a policy that I find attractive, but which we have to consult on. And so, I’m not coming to a conclusion until we’ve had the consultation, and I tried to say in my statement that we will publish a document for consultation over this summer, and then I’ll come before the National Assembly with conclusions once we’ve had the benefit of that.

As to Welsh rates of income tax, I was referring to the proposed change in the Wales Bill and simply trying to make the point that if there is to be no referendum, there needs to be some substitute mechanism for that, and, for me, that is that no transfer of income tax responsibility should be made to this National Assembly without this National Assembly’s explicit agreement.

Taxation exists to pay for public services. It’s very important if we are to have high-quality public services that we have a taxation system that works. It’s not there primarily as a means of economic development; it’s there to get money for services that we all rely on.

The two taxes proposed to be devolved on 1 April 2018 raise limited income. The policy intention is to continue to reduce landfill, and thus landfill disposals tax, by increasing recycling. In fact, the Government would probably consider it a success if landfill tax brought in no money whatsoever. While land transaction tax is highly volatile and cyclical, the amount of tax raised is small enough not to materially affect the Welsh Government’s expenditure. It will, however, be critical to get a fair deal on this tax to ensure no detriment and to set the principles for any future taxation that is devolved.

I agree with Nick Ramsay about the importance of mediation. If I could just mention the money we didn’t get from the London Olympics, the Treasury acted as judge and jury, and we got roughly the same amount of money that I believe we should have got for Swansea, never mind for the whole of Wales.

I am nervous on the devolution of income tax. We know that it fell by £400 million between 2007-08 and 2009-10. Even the biggest critics of the Welsh Government probably wouldn’t blame the Welsh Government for that fall, yet, if income tax were devolved, they would take the hit. Any change to the way that Wales is funded should give protection against reductions caused by actions outside the control of the Welsh Government and the Welsh Assembly. There must be ‘no detriment’ written in there, and not for the short term, but for ever.

I have a question. If you think specifically back to Silk, there was talk about the devolution of the aggregate levy. That’s something that seems to have been on the back burner for a long time. It’s not a particularly large sum of money, but I think it is a tax that is easily, I hope, devolved. Can the Minister give any further information on the devolution of the aggregate levy? And will the Minister commit to make keeping the funding floor the key aspect of any negotiations, so that we have it if the amount of money coming into Wales goes up, or if the money that has been spent goes up, so that it’s not just there when the money is going down, and to ensure that ‘no detriment’ is written into the whole system, so that we don’t lose out? Will the Minister continue to push for some form of mediation; someone to adjudicate between the Welsh Government and the Treasury? I don’t know if I’m allowed to say this, but I don’t trust the Treasury to be fair. [Assembly Members: ‘Oh.]

Controversial. [Laughter.]

Controversial—yes, indeed. Mike Hedges is right, of course, that the purpose of raising taxes is to pay for public services. We also try our best to align taxation in a way that promotes objectives of public policy, and that’s why we have a landfill disposals tax. There is some inherent volatility in these taxes. The best estimates prior to 23 June were that they would raise around £300 million a year, so it’s not an insignificant sum, and, if we didn’t have it, we would certainly feel the effect of it in our public services. That’s why the ‘no detriment’ principle is so important in the negotiations.

On aggregates levy, we continue to be in discussions with the UK Government on that matter, but I think the broader points that Mike Hedges made are very important, that our discussions with the Treasury are not narrowly focused on these two pieces of legislation. They have to be part of that bigger pattern of negotiations in which the funding floor, securing that as a permanent part of the landscape—borrowing limits, which I mentioned in my statement, are part of that wider landscape too, and, while we concentrated this afternoon, and we’ll be taking through the National Assembly in the autumn, these two very important pieces of legislation, our discussions with the Treasury are on a broader canvas than that.

Like the earlier speakers, I think we need to move with caution on this, not least because, as you say in your statement, every tax we get, every power we get devolved, appears to lead to a similar reduction in the amount of the block grant, and that could actually lead to a greater burden on Wales than we currently get from the mildly redistributive system that we have, even if it’s not perfect. So, I think we need to avoid perverse incentives, and, obviously, the landfill disposals tax does that, but it can also be used to tackle perverse consequences. I was struck by the intention of San Francisco to levy a very modest 1.5 per cent payroll tax on the high-tech companies—global companies like Google, Amazon and Uber, not known for their enthusiasm for paying taxes anywhere in the world. But, if successful, that money could be used to provide affordable housing for low-income families who’ve been displaced by these very same successful tech companies who have made it impossible for people to go on living in the city.

So, I think we have to realise that, if the austerity policies of the UK Government continue, there will continue to be pressure on us to find new ways of boosting the public sector revenue, particularly if we see a reduction in public sector grants coming from central Government. So, do we have the powers in the future, were we so minded, to adjust the land transaction tax to become a land value tax, which might more adequately reflect the good fortune of those who benefit from well-connected communities and excellent services to pay more as a vehicle for reversing the well-known inverse care law, as well as tax avoidance? Perhaps you could give us some indication of the direction of travel that the Government might be suggesting we move in.

Thank you, Jenny Rathbone, for those questions. She’s right to begin by warning us of perversities and unintended consequences that can flow from even the best motivated policies. But I do continue to believe that the basic principle that any tier of government that expends public money should also be responsible for raising part of that money is the right one. And then we have to work hard to make sure that we do it in the correct way. I thank the Member for Cardiff Central for referring to the San Francisco experience, which I don’t know enough about, but will look forward to learning more about that.

I think she points to another of these wider contextual matters that Mike Hedges raised, which is that, alongside all of this, if the Wales Bill succeeds, then this National Assembly will have new powers to propose new taxes here in Wales. And the recent Bevan Commission report rehearsed land value taxation as one of a number of possibilities that could be tested in that new regime. Personally, I have long been something of an enthusiast for land value taxation. What I do feel is that, if those new powers come to Wales, it will be important for us to think through together some examples of new taxes that we might be able to propose in order to test out the new machinery that the Wales Bill envisages and to see the best way in which we could use those new powers for the benefit of individuals and services in Wales.

May I welcome the Cabinet Secretary’s statement and, particularly, his comments on the fiscal framework, and the commitment that this Senedd will have an opportunity to discuss and to agree or otherwise the framework in due course? In looking at the agreement between the UK Government and the Scottish Government, it is clear that it’s the result of a great deal of work, and I’m pleased to hear that you’ve had some collaboration in relation to that for our arrangements. But it doesn’t have the impact of legislation. Does he agree with me that a statutory basis to the fiscal framework would provide greater guarantees to Wales in terms of a commitment to adequate funding and the broad principles that underpin that commitment, and a mechanism to dealing with any dispute or disagreement, should one arise?

Thank you very much to Jenny Miles. Just to say, I was eager to appear before the Assembly before the summer with a statement, just to have an opportunity to discuss things together and provide an update to Assembly Members. On the experience in Scotland, it’s on the agenda for the meeting I have next week with the Minister from Scotland to press ahead with those discussions that we’ve had with them and to learn from the experiences that they’ve had. The best way to be clear that in our hands, and in the hands of the National Assembly, is where the final choice rests to accept the framework and to be content with the framework—that’s vital. The best way to do that—well, that’ll be part of the process that we’re going to have in the autumn of discussing everything with the Treasury Secretary in London.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary.

We now move to the next item, the statement by the Minister for Lifelong Learning and Welsh Language on the ministerial taskforce on the Valleys. I call on the Minister, Alun Davies.

Thank you, Presiding Officer.

The south Wales Valleys have a strong and proud history. We powered the industrial revolution, we drove the development of the Commonwealth and we were instrumental in all the advances of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. The closure of the ironworks, steelworks and the pits has had a long and lasting impact on the Valleys communities, stretching from the English border to Carmarthenshire.

Lywydd, mae ein cymunedau yn y Cymoedd wedi ysgwyddo baich effaith dirwasgiadau olynol a dirywiadau economaidd. Maent wedi bod ar flaen y gad o ran arbrofion Llywodraeth y DU i ddiwygio lles.

Fel y dangosodd canlyniad refferendwm yr Undeb Ewropeaidd y mis diwethaf, mae llawer o bobl sy'n byw yn ein cymunedau yn y Cymoedd heddiw yn teimlo eu bod wedi’u gadael ar ôl a’u gadael allan. Nid dim ond pleidlais yn erbyn aelodaeth o'r UE oedd hon; roedd hefyd yn bleidlais lle dangosodd pobl eu bod yn teimlo'n ansicr am eu lle yn y byd, eu rhagolygon swyddi, eu hawliau cyflogaeth, a'u dyfodol.

Yn unol â maniffesto'r Blaid Lafur, ac ymrwymiadau a wnaethpwyd yn y cyfnod cyn etholiad y Cynulliad, rwyf heddiw’n cyhoeddi y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn sefydlu tasglu gweinidogol ar gyfer y Cymoedd. Ein bwriad fydd canfod dull newydd o fuddsoddi yn nyfodol ein Cymoedd a fydd yn ymgysylltu â chymunedau lleol ac yn eu grymuso, ac yn adfer ymdeimlad o obaith a dyhead.

Rydym eisoes wedi gweld buddsoddiad strwythurol sylweddol yn y Cymoedd, gan gynnwys gan yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Bydd y tasglu yn adeiladu ar y sylfaen hon, gan weithio gyda phobl sy'n byw yn y Cymoedd, busnesau lleol, llywodraeth leol, y trydydd sector a sefydliadau dinesig i hyrwyddo'r Cymoedd fel rhanbarth i fuddsoddi ynddo ac fel lle i fyw, i gydgysylltu buddsoddiadau presennol yn well, ac i ymdrin â phroblemau hirdymor. Bydd yn gweithio'n agos gyda rhaglenni prifddinas-ranbarth Caerdydd a dinas-ranbarth bae Abertawe a bydd yn ceisio harneisio potensial tirwedd unigryw ac amrywiol y Cymoedd.

Gan ddefnyddio gwybodaeth y sector cyhoeddus a gallu Llywodraeth Cymru i weithredu fel catalydd, bydd y tasglu gweinidogol yn cyfarwyddo ac yn arwain y gwaith o adfywio a sicrhau twf cynaliadwy yn y Cymoedd. Blaenoriaeth gyntaf y tasglu fydd gwrando ar yr hyn sydd ei eisiau ar bobl yn y Cymoedd ar gyfer ein dyfodol. Byddwn yn dechrau sgwrs fanwl am wella ansawdd bywyd, datblygu economaidd ac adfywio, effeithlonrwydd busnes a chystadleurwydd, cyflogaeth a sgiliau, ac, yn olaf, datblygu cynaliadwy.

Bydd y tasglu yn gorff gweithgar ac ystwyth ac nid yn gwango biwrocrataidd. Bydd ganddo nifer bach o aelodau craidd a bydd yn galw ar gyfraniadau gan eraill yn ôl y gofyn. Bydd pob Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet a phob Gweinidog yn rhannu cyfrifoldeb dros wella bywydau pobl sy'n byw yn y Cymoedd. Byddaf i'n cadeirio'r tasglu. Bydd ei aelodau'n cynnwys Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros yr Economi a’r Seilwaith a'r Gweinidog Sgiliau a Gwyddoniaeth. Bydd ganddo hefyd nifer bach o gynghorwyr arbenigol allanol. Byddaf yn rhoi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Aelodau am y penodiadau hyn maes o law.

Mae'n bwysig ein bod yn cydnabod bod y broses o arallgyfeirio economi'r Cymoedd eisoes wedi dechrau. Mae diwydiannau newydd yn cael eu cefnogi ac mae'n rhaid inni barhau i adeiladu ar hyn a sicrhau bod pawb yn elwa, gan greu cyfleoedd newydd mewn cymunedau lleol a sicrhau bod manteision mewnfuddsoddi’n cael eu cadw a'u rhannu yn y Cymoedd.

Mae'r materion a’r heriau sylfaenol sy'n effeithio ar Gymoedd y de yn deillio o goctel gwenwynig o dlodi ac amddifadedd. Bydd y tasglu’n ymateb i’r ystod honno o ddangosyddion economaidd-gymdeithasol negyddol sydd wedi rhoi cynifer o'n cymunedau yn y Cymoedd ar waelod tablau cynghrair iechyd, cyfoeth a lles. Er ein bod ni wedi gwneud cynnydd pwysig yng Nghymru i leihau diweithdra a nifer y bobl sy'n byw mewn cartrefi di-waith, mae rhannau o'r Cymoedd yn parhau i fod â lefelau uchel o anweithgarwch economaidd, lefelau uchel o amddifadedd, a lefelau uchel o ddiweithdra. Mae hyn, yn ei dro, wedi cael effaith ar gyrhaeddiad addysgol ac iechyd hirdymor.

Mae effaith diwygiadau lles Llywodraeth y DU, o gyflwyno'r dreth ystafell wely i doriadau mewn budd-daliadau anabledd, wedi cael ei theimlo gryfaf gan gymunedau yn y Cymoedd. Er na allwn ddadwneud y diwygiadau hyn, gallwn wneud mwy i gefnogi pobl a'u helpu i chwilio am waith urddasol, medrus ac ystyrlon. Byddwn yn gweithio gyda phobl i ymateb i'w hamgylchiadau a'u profiadau yn y byd go iawn. Mae’n rhaid i’r ymagwedd hon gael ei hategu gan fynediad at swyddi, mynediad at wasanaethau o safon uchel a mynediad at gymorth i wella cyflogadwyedd. Rydym yn gwybod bod llawer o bobl a chymunedau yn teimlo wedi’u difreinio, yn ddigalon ac nad ydynt yn cael digon o sylw. Rwyf am i'r tasglu siarad â’r cymunedau hyn a’r bobl hyn, a gwrando arnynt, i ganfod pam y mae pobl yn teimlo eu bod wedi’u gadael ar ôl gymaint gan yr economi ehangach a’r gwleidyddion hynny sydd wedi’u hethol i'w cynrychioli.

Drwy'r tasglu, hoffem weld twf cynaliadwy sy'n ychwanegu gwerth economaidd i'n cymunedau yn y Cymoedd. Rydym am i gyfoeth aros yn yr economïau lleol hynny lle y mae’n cael ei greu, nid llifo i ffwrdd i gymunedau pell, cronfeydd sicrwydd neu gyfrifon banc tramor. Rhaid i adfywiad parhaus Cymoedd y de fod â’i wreiddiau mewn ymagwedd at bolisi economaidd sydd â’r prif amcan o ddileu tlodi. Gallwn helpu i wella safonau byw, iechyd a lles teuluoedd a chyfleoedd bywyd plant drwy sicrhau bod swyddi gwell ar gael i bobl yn nes at adref. Bydd y tasglu’n gweithio ar draws adrannau Llywodraeth Cymru, gyda'r economi, addysg, iechyd a thai, i ysgogi camau i ddiwallu anghenion y Cymoedd wrth iddynt ddatblygu.

Lywydd Dros Dro, nid wyf yn bychanu'r heriau sydd o'n blaenau, yn enwedig o ystyried penderfyniad pobl Prydain i geisio ymadael â’r Undeb Ewropeaidd. Fodd bynnag, ceir brwdfrydedd i gydweithredu a chydweithio, fel y gwnaeth cenedlaethau blaenorol, i ateb heriau heddiw ac i roi dyfodol ffyniannus a diogel i’r Cymoedd. Byddaf yn rhoi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i Aelodau'r Cynulliad wrth i waith y tasglu ddatblygu. Diolch.

Thank you, Minister. Bethan Jenkins.

Diolch. The background to this statement here today, I believe, is a manifesto commitment that the First Minister made in April. But, when he announced this taskforce, he said it was being done, and I quote:

‘to challenge the relentless pessimism that we hear from Plaid Cymru…in the Valleys. To listen to them, you’d think that nothing ever happened here. Well, it’s our job to put them right’.

But, I think it’s less about putting us right than talking to the people of the area and trying to empower them, and their communities, to make decisions for their own lives. How do we know this? As you’ve already said, Minister, it’s because of the referendum result. In spite of billions of pounds of European money flowing into the Valleys, many people looked around them and asked whether their lives had been materially improved.

Of course, we can always point to projects here and there, but has all that money dealt conclusively with the legacy of post-industrialisation? Has is brought an end to high unemployment and an unwell population? Has it really delivered economic opportunity and reduced crime and other anti-social issues? The answer is that it has not. We are still stuck with these issues, as we were 20, 30 or 40 years—or half a century—ago, and it isn’t good enough.

So, the first thing this taskforce needs to be concerning itself with, in my view, is outcomes—how you will measure the success of your efforts. Why not start with the fundamental question: how has this or that policy or initiative improved the lives of the people of the Valleys? It seems to me to be the most elementary question, but probably the most important question here. So, I’d like the Minister to say how outcomes will be measured. I would also like to know whether the criteria for measurement will be decided independently rather than by the Welsh Government, because that’s rather like marking your own work, and, as I’ve already said, people in the Valleys aren’t really buying it at the moment.

I’d also like to know how you intend to start this conversation with people. We’re talking about engagement post Brexit and people being annoyed with politicians. How do you want to talk to people other than the usual suspects? We have to engage with people in their communities if they now tell us that they feel that politicians are distant. How are you going to make sure that that changes in terms of the future?

I’m pleased that the terms of reference refer to delivering opportunity rather than combating poverty. We’ve had the latter for as long as I can remember being an Assembly Member, and it hasn’t worked. I’m firmly of the view that if we really want to deliver jobs, then many of the other issues will look after themselves if we focus on the economic prospects of people in these areas. So, I would like to understand—. I know that Communities First doesn’t just exist in south Wales, but if you are going to be launching this new taskforce, how, then, does it marry into schemes like this and other anti-poverty initiatives that may interweave or conflict with what you are doing in this new initiative?

I think that, rather than seeking—going back to what I was saying at the start—to shoot the messenger, the Welsh Government needs to take a hard look at itself, because it’s not just Plaid Cymru that’s saying that not enough is being done. The Communities, Equality and Local Government Committee reported in June last year, saying that, by the Welsh Government’s lack of progress in reducing poverty, particularly given its long-term commitment investing in the issue, there was deep concern there. So, we need to look at, instead of putting blame on people, treating the symptoms of poverty and tackling the root causes of poverty.

I’d like to know whether, in the wake of the referendum, as you mentioned Brexit at the beginning, the Welsh Government has reviewed the effectiveness of European money that has been spent in the south Wales Valleys area. After all, if it is the provider of funding, rather than deliverer of its intended purposes, then the EU can only shoulder some of the blame if that funding does not lead to significant and measurable improvement. Or, to put it another way, new pavements or a walkway in a town centre won’t deliver jobs in and of themselves—it’s what goes in and around that that counts.

Lastly, I’d like to know what this taskforce will do to break the link between poverty and poor educational attainment. In this party, we’ve pushed for community-focused schools with strong links to families and the wider community, and I think that the Welsh Government must deliver its own manifesto pledge to pilot a new model of community learning centres, providing extended services from 8 a.m. to 6 p.m., with childcare, parenting support, family learning and community access to facilities built around the school day. There is cross-party support for such a proposal, and we have also pledged to turn schools into community hubs so that they can be open at weekends, they can be open to the community, as opposed to just open at school times, and we can then engage on a wider basis in terms of eradicating poverty in Wales. I don’t disagree with the setting up of this taskforce, but I don’t either want it to be just another piece of work that sits on a bookshelf somewhere and gets forgotten about; I want people in the Valleys areas who feel, often, quite disenfranchised and disengaged to become part of the debate in the future so that we can make devolution work for them and we can make the future of Wales be part of their conversation, not just ours as politicians.

I’m grateful to the Plaid Cymru spokesperson for her response, and I agree with much of it. I certainly agree with the points that you made on outcomes, rather than simply counting what we’re doing. I think all too often in Government, there’s been a temptation to count all the actions that we take and then to declare that a great success because we’ve done a lot. What actually matters is the impact of those actions on the people and communities that we represent. Certainly, I very much agree as well that it would be useful were many of these outcomes to be defined, if you like, not simply by Government, but by others as well, who take a more independent view of this.

When I look at these issues, I don’t simply look at a series of statistics, I understand and appreciate the lives that people live and the impact that our policies sometimes don’t have on those people, and the need to actually make a difference. So, I was very, very clear, I hope, in making this statement that we want to see the eradication of poverty as a key driver for what we do, not simply something that we do when we’re sitting here in Cardiff Bay, or sitting in various taskforces or committees elsewhere—in Cathays Park, or wherever we happen to be—but that we look at all the actions we take as a Government, with the Government acting as a catalyst, bringing people together, and that we establish the eradication of poverty in the south Wales Valleys as a driver of policy, and that that is the benchmark that we take and that we make for all other policy interventions.

The reason why the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure and the Minister for Skills and Science are joining me on this taskforce is to focus in on those wider economic issues and on how we can ensure that we have the human capital and we invest in our human capital to ensure that we do meet those objectives. I certainly will be bringing in my colleagues from across the rest of Government, as necessary and as needed, and bringing in the expertise that we need from elsewhere outside of Government. But, I want to ensure that this taskforce is not, as you put it, something that sits on shelves, wherever they happen to be, but is a taskforce that brings people together to achieve very real results, and we have the opportunity here to do that.

I’m not sure I do completely agree with you in the criticisms that you made about the investments made by the different European programmes. I think they have had a very real impact, and I’ve seen in my own constituency the changes that have been made, both from the building of the A465 Heads of the Valleys road to the renewal of Ebbw Vale, if you like, at the Works site—the investment in the railway, the investment in the college, and the investment in apprenticeships and Jobs Growth Wales, which are having a very real impact on people’s lives. What I’m concerned to do is that we focus in on substance and not simply PR, that we focus in on making real changes, and not simply cosmetic changes, and that we focus in on changing life opportunities for people. That is a very different ambition, and a very different vision from, perhaps, what we’ve seen at different points in the past.

You mentioned the anti-poverty schemes that are already in existence, and we will be bringing together those schemes and we will be reviewing how those schemes are working today and how they will work in the future. The Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Children will be looking at some of those issues, and I expect to join him in reviewing how some of those anti-poverty programmes do work.

Let me finish on this point: you talked about how we engage as politicians and Ministers, and I think you’re absolutely right to focus on that and on our failure, sometimes, to communicate our messages. I was anxious to make this statement before recess so that we can get started on this work as soon as possible. I don’t see this as being simply an exercise in consultation, as perhaps we’ve done at other times in the past; I see this as wishing to stimulate a rich and in-depth and honest discussion with people—the people that we both represent in different parts of the south Wales Valleys. I want to listen actively to what people tell us, because when people talk to us—and we’ve all had conversations on doorsteps over the last few weeks and months—many people have spoken to me about the environment in which they live, whether it’s litter on the streets of Ebbw Vale or whether it’s weeds growing in the streets of Tredegar, or whether it’s fly-tipping above Nantyglo. And these are things which matter to people; it affects their own place, it affects their perception of who they are and they are things that we want to address. So, yes, we will address the large-scale challenges facing us, but we also need to address the places in which we live, and I would never underestimate the importance of that to people, wherever we happen to live in the Valleys.

Can I just remind Members that we’re already halfway through the time allocated to this session? I’d be very grateful if all Members and, in fact, the Minister himself, could keep questions and answers short in order to maximise broad scrutiny of the Government. Thank you very much. Mohammad Asghar.

Thank you very much, acting Deputy Presiding Officer. I also thank the Minister for his statement today. According to the Office for National Statistics, one in eight children in Wales are living in long-term workless households. Many of these children live in the south-east Wales Valleys. Research shows that children living with long-term unemployed parents do less well at school and are at higher risk of being unemployed in later life. Children from better-off families enjoy better health and have higher skills than those from poorer families. So, any strategy to break the cycle of unemployment, poor health and well-being, poverty and lack of educational achievement is to be welcomed. Given the focus on promoting economic development and regeneration, it is vital that the business community is fully engaged with this taskforce. So, can I ask the Minister: what discussion he has had with the private sector for their input into this taskforce?

Similarly, collaboration with the third sector, local authorities and community groups will be important in this case. What consultative procedure with these groups will be adopted by this taskforce?

The aims of this taskforce cross many ministerial boundaries. What targets do you intend to set, and how will you monitor progress across Government in meeting these targets? How will the taskforce co-ordinate its work in conjunction with existing strategies such as the skills agenda in Wales?

Finally, Minister, I know that you intend to chair this taskforce. May I ask what consideration was given to adopting an independent chair with business experience from the private sector to drive forward this initiative? You mentioned a couple of areas in the south-east Wales Valleys. The Minister should know that I travel virtually every week to those Valleys, and they are deprived areas not for jobs only, but since coal and steel have gone—and continuous Labour Governments have been ruling this country. So, nothing has been done so far. There is great potential, Minister, if you start just thinking of certain market towns like Tredegar, Ebbw Vale, Merthyr—they were booming areas in the 1970s and 1980s, and, somehow, there are derelict buildings there now. So, have you thought about it—whether these closed shops can be, you know, reinvigorated so that they can resurface in this part of world with new money and new people to invest in it to make sure our Valleys come to their full glory, where they were only 30 or 40 years ago? Thank you.

I would very gently suggest to the Member that perhaps he reads the statement before he writes his contribution to it. If you had read or listened to my statement, you would have known that we will be consulting with all the different parts of the community that you have listed in your questions. And let me say this to you: it’s a bit rich for any Conservative spokesperson to come here to this Chamber and wring their hands and cry their crocodile tears about the poverty that they’ve created on an industrial scale in these communities.

Let me say this to the Conservative spokesperson: the impact of welfare reforms on communities up and down and across the south Wales Valleys is absolutely extraordinary. I am seeing, in my own constituency, a loss of around £60 million from the pockets of some of the most vulnerable and poorest families in that community. We are seeing that taking place at the moment. You can shake your head, but it’s absolutely true and we’re seeing the impact of it. We’re seeing the impact on those families, on the children whom he cried his crocodile tears about, and we’re also seeing the impact, then, on local businesses and local communities. We are seeing those impacts today, and what this work is designed to do is to alleviate and mitigate the difficulties and the problems, the crisis and the chaos that has been caused by the United Kingdom Conservative Government.

Let me say this: we will, as I’ve said in answer to Bethan Jenkins, be establishing very clear targets. Clearly, the skills Minister is on the taskforce, so she will be fully engaged with this agenda. But, I think, if the Conservatives wish to contribute positively to the work that is being done, they need to start by recognising where we are today and the role that they have played in creating the economic decline that is affecting the people and communities of the Valleys of south Wales.

Before I just ask my question of the Minister, I just wanted to note, and note that this Chamber notes that the UKIP AMs that have been lauding their representation of the Valleys throughout the Assembly elections and have been telling Labour how out of touch they are with the Valleys—

Could we move to questions, please?

[Continues.]—have not even bothered to stay in this Chamber for the discussion on the very future of those Valleys that they seek to represent.

But, can I welcome the statement from the Minister? There’s no doubt that the post-Brexit initiative will now be even more important to the Valleys’ communities of south Wales, as we’ve said. And I’m not going to stand here and repeat everything that’s been said. I agree with a lot of what Bethan Jenkins has said and, clearly, what the Minister has said. There is so much to address; it is a huge agenda and I’m very grateful to the Minister for what he’s setting out.

So, I want to focus on just one particular area that I believe is hugely underutilised in the Valleys, and that is promoting our environment and tourism, including our industrial heritage. I’m very pleased, therefore, that that is a key component of the taskforce agenda. Often, Wales is thought of as being heavily reliant on its natural beauty when we’re looking at developing tourism, and it’s certainly the case in my constituency of Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney that it is blessed with areas of natural beauty. But, of course, it’s extremely rich in its industrial and trade union heritage. We have, for example, the Winding House, the Cyfarthfa Industrial Heritage Centre, the Ynysfach Iron Heritage Centre, and, as we know, Merthyr was at the heart of political reform and the development of trade unionism in the nineteenth century. So, will the Minister confirm that, where the ambitions of the taskforce talk about promoting our environment and tourism, this will very much include our industrial and trade union history, which should be a key part of any strategy, recognising that promoting aspects of our heritage can play a significant role in creating jobs and supporting regeneration?