Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru

Good afternoon and welcome to this Plenary meeting. The first item this afternoon will be questions to the First Minister, and the first question is from Rhys ab Owen.

Defence and defence exports are not devolved matters. So, we haven't had discussions on these issues. 

Thank you very much, Prif Weinidog. I’d anticipated that that’s what your response would be, but over 160 companies in Wales do supply the defence and arms sector in the UK and beyond. And if war crimes are committed with arms produced here, then it does create criminal liability under international law. That’s why Keir Starmer said recently that it would be a legal decision rather than a policy decision to ban 30 arms export licences to Israel. Perhaps there wouldn’t be criminal liability for us here in the Senedd, but, certainly, there would be a moral liability if arms produced here were used to commit war crimes.

There’s also concern about the pension schemes of local authorities and other public bodies that contravene the social partnership Act and which may be used to fund companies involved in war crimes. So, will the First Minister make a commitment that she and her Government will collaborate with the UK Government and will work with public bodies to ensure that Wales, a nation of sanctuary, isn’t part of any war crimes?

Diolch yn fawr. I note with concern—I’m sure all of us do—the events going on in the middle east, and I’m sure we all feel very upset about the situation, and our hearts go out to the civilians affected.

Just in terms of the licensing regime, UK Exports are responsible for ensuring that exports do not fall into the hands of those who are not allies. The International Criminal Court is responsible for investigating alleged war crimes. But I do think that it’s also important to note that exports are important. That’s a separate matter, but it is important, I think, that we do allow the UK to take the reigns on an issue that is part of their responsibilities.

First Minister, I concur with what you said. In my region, General Dynamics has invested more than £12 million in a new UK armoured fighting vehicle centre of excellence on the site of the former south Wales colliery, and BAE Systems, near where I live, have provided support to the people of Ukraine, which has enabled Ukraine, of course, to resist that Russian aggression. In south-east Wales, we’ve welcomed 550 jobs at BAE, 900 jobs at General Dynamics, and thousands of other jobs with other defence companies in the wider supply chain in south Wales, who are, of course, experts in these defence products, and that’s what they’ve brought to the region. First Minister, would you agree with me that defence companies like BAE and General Dynamics are making an enormous contribution to the defence of our nation, and to our economy? And I’d be interested to know what the Welsh Government is doing to promote the various science, technology, engineering and mathematics apprenticeships offered by BAE and companies like those I’ve mentioned.

Thanks very much. As you know, when we talk about defence, we talk about it in Wales in the same breath as we talk about aerospace. And that is a cornerstone, of course, of our capability. There are more than 20,000 people employed in that sector, and, of course, that is a major contribution to our export capability. It’s probably worth noting that the value of Welsh exports was £18 billion, and that is higher compared to June 2019. So, it is important, I think, for us to make sure that people have the skills that they need to prepare themselves for work in the sector, and, as you say, STEM is absolutely critical. It’s really good to see the emphasis that’s being put on that in our schools, and I'm particularly keen to see women—more women—being employed in that sector.

Since the escalation of hostilities in Gaza, we have seen slaughter and sorrow on an unimaginable scale. The official death toll in Gaza has now exceeded 41,000. That violence is now spilling over into Lebanon, with the real prospect of conflict engulfing the whole region. Israel has not listened to the many countries that have called for a ceasefire. Before it's too late, can you not see that there's a need to use all the levers possible to persuade the companies involved in supplying materials used to suppress Palestinians and fuel the Netanyahu war machine? First Minister, do you agree that a campaign of divestment, to make companies think twice before they supply Israel with weapons, is long overdue?

Thanks very much. I'm sure we're all concerend about the tensions in the middle east. It really is an escalating and very difficult situation. Of course, we have a moral obligation to make sure that arms don't get into the hands of people who don't have the same values as us. The UK Government is responsible for making sure that that happens; it's not an area that I can get involved with.

Social care faces population changes and rising demand. As a Government, we are working with leaders across our health and social care system to build capacity for care and support in our communities, to manage the challenges of increasing demand for more complex care for our ageing and frail population.

Investment in social care will help unlock some of the challenges in our health service. The data shows that there are far too many patients in our hospitals waiting for care at home or in the community. The need for step-down bed facilities that meet the current and future needs of our ageing population is essential. I welcome the plans for a new £15 million facility in Ferndale, but residents and staff at Ferndale House are anxious about their future, given the planned closure. I've written to Rhondda Cynon Taf council for further information, and intend to visit the home later this week. Could you outline how the Welsh Government will support the sector this winter, including funding for step-down facilities and tackling delays in home adaptations? And do you agree that the new facilities are critical to the long-term strategy, but that transitions from older facilities must cause as little disruption as posisble?

Thanks very much. You're quite right—we've got to be sensitive to the people who are in those homes, and, if there's any disruption, that's incredibly difficult, partiuclarly for those people with dementia, who are much more comfortable with the same routine and the same environment. We have a ministerial-led care action committee, which ensures that, as a Government, we're working very closely with the NHS and local government to address those issues of care and the need to make sure that we look at that opportunity to develop more support in our communities. You'll be aware that there's £70 million for rebalancing care and support, in terms of a capital fund. Already, Rhondda Cynon Taf has been awarded £7.6 million of that, towards the redevelopment of Bronllwyn in Gelli. But, just in terms of Ferndale, it is referenced within Cwm Taf's capital plan, but we haven't seen an application yet in the Welsh Government.

The Age Cymru report published in August shows that, while 12-month social care delays have been slowly coming down, we still have one in six waiting more than 30 days for a social care package to be implemented, unfortunately. Delays in social care are still unacceptably high, with social care leads laying the blame substantially on a lack of sustainable funding. In Denbighshire, in my constituency, the situation is much more acute due to Denbighshire County Council offering rock-bottom fees after approving only an 8.8 per cent increase in fees, compared to neighbouring Conwy's 20 per cent. This increase is wiped out by inflation and the cost-of-living crisis, and we are now facing a 1,600 care home bed deficit in north Wales alone over the next decade. This also means that Denbighshire County Council will be paying over £9,000 a year less per person than in Conwy for the same care. Care Forum Wales have said that this alarming deficit has illustrated the need for social care to be funded properly for existing homes to survive and to encourage the development of new ones. Many care homes in Denbighshire are now teetering on the brink, with others having closed already. So, can the First Minister outline her Government's plan regarding the funding of social services, and what oversight will be given to local authorities to ensure that they properly fund the sector and avert the impeding deficit of care home capacity in my constituency? Thank you.

Thanks very much, Gareth. You'll be aware that part of the challenge in relation to care is the fact that, actually, it's difficult to recruit people into the sector. And we, in Wales, have awarded the people who work in our care sector the real living wage, and that is making a difference. The fact is that, in August 2023, we had 58,000 people registered, and today we have 63,000. So, it's good to see that is making a difference. We recognise that there are still serious challenges, but that money was ring-fenced and given to local authorities, and that is the biggest challenge, I think, in the sector. But you'll be aware also that we've done significant work in the social care fair work forum, and what we're trying to do is to make sure that we work in partnership to improve the terms and conditions for social care workers. Something we're trying to do is to get more consistency in terms of how local authorities address the issue of care, and there's a huge amount of work already being undertaken in that space. There's more to do, but I think we're way ahead of anything that's happening in England in this space.

The pressures on social care can have a terrible effect on unpaid carers and their loved ones. I wonder if I could press you, First Minister, on how your Government's charter for unpaid carers, which was published nearly two years ago, can result in tangible improvements. My office has been helping and supporting a family whose adult son used to attend Springfield day centre in Pontllanfraith. Now, since COVID, the centre has never fully reopened and their number of respite hours has reduced drastically. This has left them and many other people in the same situation without the support they need. The pressures on social care and on local government are pushing unpaid carers to the limit. It's pushing them beyond the limits and they're suffering with the bits of a broken, underfunded system. So, what reassurance could you give my constituents and others like them that the voice of unpaid carers will, at last, be listened to, please? 

Well, thanks very much, and I know the big champion for unpaid carers in this Chamber is Julie Morgan. She's been absolutely a champion for unpaid carers for several years, and I'd like to thank her for the work that she's been doing.

We recognise that local authorities have to make really difficult decisions, and some of them have made the decision to close some of those day centres, which, of course, were places where people could go to have a little bit of time and respite while people were sent to those day-care centres. They still exist in many places, and certainly one of the things that I visited recently was a project in Merthyr, where they, actually, were working with the NHS to provide a broader day-care package. So, I think we've probably got to be a bit more creative in terms of getting the NHS and local authorities to see what more they can do in that space. But I recognise it's a very, very difficult task. I know, as my mother suffers from Alzheimer's, and it's a lot of pressure on people who are dealing with those situations. It is very difficult, it is very tiring, and people are determined to help their loved ones and not let them down, but they also need the support. I think what we're trying to do is to make sure that we recognise that, and, of course, we do have a huge amount and a big project of support for unpaid carers.

Good afternoon, First Minister. I'm sure we all know the real thankless task that many of our carers, both unpaid and paid, adopt, and I know that many in this Siambr as well have undertaken that role in relation to their relatives or friends. I myself have done it, but only for a very short time, and I have total admiration for all of those people who are unpaid carers and paid carers. You talk about the real living wage in Wales for carers, and that's a great initiative, but, in Powys, where we've tried to recruit carers, there were two sessions where absolutely nobody turned up. So, in a rural area we have real pressures in trying to recruit carers. So, one of the things that the Liberal Democrats are pushing for, as you will know, I hope, not through any stunts that you might have seen by a certain party leader, is that we want to see an increased wage for our carers. We want to see an extra £2, at least, paid to them, as well as real career progression and a real recognition, and a level of esteem given to those carers. So, what can the Welsh Government do in order to raise the esteem and the level of carers across Wales, but particularly in our rural areas? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thanks very much. It is a really challenging situation, particularly when there are other jobs available that are perhaps not as difficult and as challenging. But the fact is that we in Wales are awarding the real living wage. There was a huge reaction in Liverpool to the fact that we pay the real living wage in Wales. It’s something that people shouldn’t take for granted. It doesn’t happen everywhere else in the country. The fact is about 2,000 people left after Brexit. There were lots of eastern European citizens who were helping us out, and it’s been really difficult to backfill those positions. But what we have done is we’ve developed a very concerted programme to try and support carers with career progression, making sure that they get the training that they deserve and need, and to professionalise the system. I recognise that, in an ideal world, I think we’d all like to see carers be paid more, but the challenging financial situation does make that incredibly difficult, and I recognise that it’s particularly challenging in rural areas.

Questions now from the party leaders. Leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Andrew R.T. Davies.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. Last week, we had the waiting time figures here in Wales, which regrettably showed another increase in terms of people waiting on NHS waiting lists. Just shy of 800,000 procedures are now on those waiting lists and in excess of 600,000 people are waiting to have one or two of those procedures at any hospital or day surgery that we have here in Wales. I actually am commending the First Minister for coming forward with this offer that Jo Stevens announced at the Labour Party conference yesterday. What I regret is that the First Minister and her party did not take up that offer in August 2023. I have sympathy for the additional 50,000 people who have joined those waiting lists in Wales in the intervening period. Fifty thousand extra people are on a waiting list here in Wales because you declined to take that chance of the second offer scheme in August 2023. Why, today, is that scheme suitable to address the waiting lists and in August 2023 it wasn’t?

I’ll tell you why: it’s because it wasn’t a serious offer. Steve Barclay had not contacted us for an entire year, he had a five-minute meeting, and the next day went on the airways to score a political point. That does not build trust between two Governments. That is not the way to co-operate. There was no false intention from our side. If I thought for a minute that they were serious, I would have bitten their hand off, but they were playing politics, and that is not the way that we’re working.

It was a serious offer, First Minister, but regrettably, 50,000 people have joined those waiting lists here in Wales. I can remember raising with the First Minister in previous sessions whether the Welsh Government was going to take up the second offer scheme that a previous Labour Government brought forward in the early 2000s because waiting times were so bad then here in Wales. But you’re saying it’s a serious offer that was announced at the Labour Party conference yesterday; if it’s a serious offer, how many patients will benefit from the offer and what money will leave Wales to buy this capacity that health boards will have to find? And will it be limited to certain waits such as orthopaedic, or will it carry weight with all waiting times across the whole health service here in Wales?

First of all, if it was a serious offer, there was no follow-up to it. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I think it’s really important also to recognise that you can only offer a second offer if you’ve got capacity, and in England at the time, there wasn’t the capacity. I’ve had a conversation on the weekend with Wes Streeting. We’re very keen to make sure that we share best practice. They are just about to start introducing those 40,000 additional appointments a week through closing that loophole to non-doms. We will get a percentage of that. But the key thing here is that, actually, I think the people of Wales—you've seen their reaction—are very keen for us to work together. That's what they want to see. And the fact is that, already, there is a degree of co-operation. For example, already, if people in England have cleft palates or they need some specific support on burns or plastic surgery, they actually come to Wales. So, it's a two-way system, this. And, on top of that, the thing that was particularly of interest to them was to see how we've already started to make the changes in relation to the shift into primary care, into support in the community. They're very interested in seeing how we've already changed the optometry contract, how we're already giving additional support in terms of pharmacy. So, they can learn from us and we can learn from them, and that's no bad thing.

I think we've seen that two-way working by the withdrawal of the winter fuel payment, where Labour Members have been deathly silent and yet 400,000 homes will lose that payment this year, costing Welsh pensioners £110 million. But I asked you a simple question, First Minister, and in response to my first question you said that it wasn't a serious offer from Steve Barclay in August 2023. Well, if yours is a serious offer, why didn't you give me the number of patients who potentially—? I'm not asking for the nearest single patient, I'm asking for the potential capacity that you and the Westminster Government have assessed might be available; the potential cost that that might incur; and will this offer be limited to specific waits such as orthopaedic or eye or any other condition you might think that the NHS has to deal with. Those are three straightforward questions that people on waiting lists are wondering about, as to whether this offer will benefit them. As I said, I believe that it is a sensible and progressive way of addressing waiting times here in Wales, but I'd like to see the substance of it, otherwise people will just look at it as a PR gimmick that was launched at the Labour Party conference and, this time in six months, we'll still have those chronic waiting times here in Wales.

We've started the conversation, we will come up with the details in weeks to come. We are keen to wait to hear what the next budget will look like, which will give us a sense of how much will come as a result of closing that loophole to the non-dom people, who you let get away with not paying taxes. That was your Government that was responsible for that. We are in conversation. Wes Streeting is very keen to come and see things here, and we are very serious. Already, the fact is that we are co-operating and looking at what more we can do, particularly in the north Wales area.

The leader of Plaid Cymru, Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Last week, we saw the First Minister wash her hands of her responsibility to stand up for Wales in a most extraordinary way, I must say. Remember that, for months, people have been told that having two Labour Governments working together, one in Cardiff Bay and one in Westminster, would turn things around for Wales—partnership in power, she now calls it. But when my colleague Sioned Williams asked her to seek help from the Labour UK Government to tackle child poverty, she said:

'This is the way that it works: make sure that you ask your local MPs to ask Keir Starmer.'

When First Ministers don't think it's their responsibility to stand up for Wales, something is seriously wrong. Given she wouldn't do what's needed, I did write to all MPs, and I look forward to their responses. Would she like to explain now how that comment of hers sits with her partnership in power principle, or is the partnership just about giving the thumbs up to whatever Keir Starmer wants, even if that includes cutting the winter fuel payment?

I thought I gave you a lesson in how devolution works last week; have I got to do this every week? I think it's important for us to recognise that there are areas that I'm responsible for, and it's been really good to work with Plaid on delivering things like the free school meals. I think that's a really positive approach to addressing issues like child poverty. It's a direct result, but it's something that's within our control. There are other areas that are not within our control. Of course we can have conversations with our party leaders, and the great thing is that I can have conversations with my party leader, who actually is now the Prime Minister of Britain. That's not something that the leader of Plaid Cymru will ever be able to do.

Thank you very much for the lesson. It's a great reminder, of course, of how devolution can work when Plaid Cymru come to the table to persuade Labour to do something that they voted against time and time again, which was to introduce free school meals. I'm pleased that we were able to persuade you and work together. That's how devolution can work.

She was really on a roll last week after that bizarre 'contact your MP' comment. She then went on, in an ITV interview, to say that she had no more influence over Keir Starmer than she does over Donald Trump. It's taking expectation management to a whole new level. Some people did decide, actually, to be kind by saying, 'At least she's being honest.' On one hand, though, she wants to distance herself from Starmer; on the other hand she's happy to defend him on the winter fuel payment cut. Now she wants to outsource the NHS in Wales to him. Just like the winter fuel payment cut was an idea first put forward by the Tories, then delivered by Labour, the latest cross-border NHS plan was also a proposal by a Tory health Secretary, though more as an insult to Labour's handling of the NHS than anything. But now Labour are running with it themselves.

They'll be sharing good practice, we're told, and that's certainly a good thing. There's no detail, though. And isn't there a huge irony that dentistry is the thing identified as a major success in Wales? It's an irony that won't be lost on all those unable to register with an NHS dentist. But given that the First Minister is keen to blame everyone but herself for the state of the Welsh NHS, including picking a fight with NHS leaders only last week, if her plan to learn from a crisis-hit NHS in England fails, who will the First Minister blame then?

It turns out I've actually got more influence than I realised. I've been in power for 48 days, already the Prime Minister of Britain has made a specific visit to Wales, and over the weekend, I had the opportunity to speak with Keir Starmer, with Rachel Reeves, with Wes Streeting, with Ed Miliband, with Andy Burnham, with Sadiq Khan—all of these people were really keen to discuss with us our plans for the future and how we can work together. That is influence, and it's great to recognise that that is where we're at.

It is, I think, important also to recognise that we don’t have a monopoly in terms of good ideas. But when it comes to dentistry, you're quite right, we've got a long way to go, but we've come a very long way, and the fact that we have managed to introduce nearly 400,000 new patient appointments to the NHS is something that, I think, should be celebrated. If you go to England, you have absolute dental deserts. We encourage people to go and train in rural areas. We can't force dentists to work for the NHS, but the fact that that new contract has delivered that many in two years is, I think, a significant step forward, and it's much better than anything the Tories managed to do in England under the previous Prime Minister.

'We're better than the Tories' really is an incredibly low bar, if I might say. And I'm not impressed by name-dropping who you've been chatting with at the Labour Party conference. Your talk is cheap. We don't want 'talk the talk', we want 'walk the walk' from this Welsh Government.

Choosing dentistry, if I may say, as an example of Labour's success in Wales is extraordinary. Perhaps she can choose a few statistics that sounds good, but surely she knows that the perception of people more generally is that NHS dentistry in Wales is on its knees. Another dental surgery in my constituency closed to NHS treatments just last week. That was a start-of-conference statement about co-operation on the NHS, something to calm the waters internally.

Another attempt to calm the waters was to defer a vote in the conference on winter fuel payments—an attempt by the unions to overturn that cruel decision made by Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves. I read earlier the words of the Labour business Secretary, Jonathan Reynolds, on the winter payment. According to him, 'there was no choice but to do this'. But of course there was a choice, and that's the point. Labour is using the word 'change' very often these days, but, much to the disappointment of so many Labour supporters in Wales, isn’t the truth of the matter that choosing to emulate the austerity policies of the Conservatives is the most prominent change that Labour has made?

My focus is on the things that matter to the people of Wales. Last week I set out what those priorities are after that listening excercise. You're right; we have to make choices, and the choices we have made are the choices that I think are in keeping with the priorities of the people. It's very interesting to look at some of the choices that the leader of Plaid Cymru has made. In the past few months, he has mentioned Keir Starmer 21 times and—

He's the Prime Minister, for goodness' sake.

He may be the Prime Minister, but this is a devolved Parliament, and the things that matter to the people in Wales—[Interruption.] Oh, it's another—

I do need to hear the First Minister's answer to your questions. [Interruption.] I need silence to hear the First Minister, please.

I'm interested in focusing on the people's priorities. I'm interested in talking about health. I'm interested in talking about education. I'm interested in talking about the economy. You've mentioned Keir Starmer 21 times. You've mentioned waiting lists eight times. That's where your priority is. You've mentioned schools once. Is that what your priority is? I think it's really important that the people of Wales know that, actually, you're far more focused on what's happening in Westminster than you are on how we can effect change here. Tata—once. Once you've mentioned Tata. I think the people of Wales are listening, and they're not interested in your attacks on Keir Starmer. They want us to fix what's happening in their communities.

Question 3, Llyr Gruffydd.

[Inaudible.]—for 25 years, but there we are.

Llyr Gruffydd, ask your question rather than make some preliminary comment.

The planning and environmental permitting systems operate within separate statutory frameworks. In accordance with environmental permitting regulations, units with more than 40,000 poultry places will have to obtain a permit to operate. Planning permission will be required to develop most poultry units at a large scale.

Thank you very much for that. You'll perhaps be aware that new welfare requirements are being introduced by supermarkets, which means that more space is required by poultry in such units. That is perfectly fair, but it means that more sheds are needed to sustain the same number of chickens and the same level of productivity—not more chickens or waste or traffic, but they do need those additional sheds. And the impasse that we're seeing within the current planning system makes it unlikely that these new sheds will be able to be constructed in time to meet the demand, and that's going to undermine those farms that are dependent on the ability to provide poultry. And, indeed, it is problematic for the food processors who are themselves dependent. One company said that they would need 24 additional sheds just to sustain their current productivity levels, not increase what is being produced. Now, the irony is, of course, that the Welsh Government has been investing in some of these food producers, investing in some of these food processors, which, if they can't have the throughput, will have to move from Wales. So, the question is: what are you going to do to ensure that this problem is solved and that these people who do need additional sheds can receive urgent consent so that they can meet the demands next year?

Diolch yn fawr. Well, we know that Natural Resources Wales are very keen to make sure that we review the regulation in terms of enforcement of spreading of organic materials on land in Wales, and I think it is important that we take a precautionary approach to the situation. Last week we were talking about pollution in our rivers, and it is important, I think, for us to get this right. And what I do recognise is that there are a number of permits that are in the planning process and that they are being halted at the moment, but I think that is absolutely the right thing to do. What we have done is there is a control of the agricultural pollutions regulations review, and I'm pleased to say that Dr Susannah Bolton has been appointed to the role of chair. I think that is an important milestone to ensure that the review is undertaken in a collaborative way. The fact is that 44 per cent of our rivers are in a good ecological status. It's not enough, but it's three times as many as in England. There is a huge amount to do, but I think that it's important for us to wait until we know exactly what is the right thing to do in order to make sure that we don't see more pollution in our rivers than is necessary.

First Minister, very similar but on a different topic to Llyr Gruffydd, I’m very pleased that we do have some of the very best animal welfare standards when it comes to poultry in Wales and across the UK. Now, under current legislation, if birds are forced to be housed for a period of time greater than 16 weeks—by occurrences such as avian influenza, for example—free-range farms lose their free-range status. That’s the current position. The UK Government for England and the Scottish Government carried out a joint consultation together to change that legislation so that farms would not lose that status should birds be housed due to Government intervention. And the Welsh Government took a very different approach on that and decided not to be involved in that process. And my question is not so much about the rights and wrongs of that, but the issue is that if Wales takes a different approach to the rest of the UK, then Welsh poultry farmers are going to be disadvantaged. There’s also going to be significant confusion as well to the consumer.

So, First Minister, I wonder if you are aware of this, and if you are, can you set out why the Welsh Government took a different approach? Do you agree with me and acknowledge that it would be far better to have a UK-wide position on this matter? And, thirdly, will you agree to discuss this matter with the Deputy First Minister, who I’ve corresponded with on this matter as well?

I’d be very happy to speak to my deputy about this matter. I think it is important that we make sure that we have a thorough understanding of that situation in relation to free-range status, so we’ll look into that.

Chicken manure contains high levels of nitrogen and phosphorus. It makes a great fertiliser for crops. When the nutrients reach waterways, they can result in the excessive growth of algae, starving the river of oxygen. With chicken sheds producing huge amounts of manure, I am told that some farmers have been spreading it on fields as fertiliser. What action is taken in the planning and permit system to ensure that chicken manure does not reach rivers and cause eutrophication?

Thanks very much, and this is precisely why we’ve got that moratorium. It’s exactly to make sure that there is an appropriate way to make sure that the manure doesn’t find its way into our rivers. It’s a real problem; it’s not a problem just for rivers, it also has massive implications for housing and planning and all of these other things. We’ve got to get this right, but while we’re getting it right, what would be the wrong thing to do is to just carry on allowing more and more of these facilities to develop, until we’re clear about how we stop the pollution from continuing. So, thank you for that question.

Our priority for iechyd da, a healthier Wales, is to cut waiting times for NHS services. We've made clear to health boards what our expectations for reductions in waiting times are, and they're set out in the planned care recovery plan. And we're working with health boards to achieve these.

Thank you for your answer, First Minister. As we’ve already heard in the Chamber here this afternoon, many of us are surprised about what we’re hearing coming from the Labour Party conference in Liverpool in recent days, and let’s remind ourselves that the First Minister in Wales and Welsh Labour are taking Conservative ideas, stating their intent to work with the UK Government on cutting waiting lists and using other sectors to ease the burden on the NHS. And whilst we welcome this change of approach, magically, in recent times, there must be a worry on your own benches, First Minister, that you're perhaps becoming the first Conservative First Minister of Wales, and it’s essential that any plan that you put in place working with UK Government has robust targets and consequences if those targets are not met. So, First Minister, as you described a few moments ago a serious offer that you now have on the table, can you outline to us what will happen if those important targets are not being met, and are you looking here for another organisation to blame like you did with the health boards last week?

Well, thanks very much. You’re quite right, the NHS in Wales is challenged. We all know that. The demand is unbelievable. I mean, the fact that there were more than 1.5 million referrals into hospitals in a year, more than half the population of Wales. It’s quite, quite extraordinary, and lots of the people I know don’t go to hospital, so they must be the same people going over and over again. There is a huge demand on the service, and I think we've got to recognise that when you've had austerity for as long as we've had, then that is going to be a challenge. But let's not pretend that the Tories have a great record in England. You've got over 7 million people on waiting lists in England, and I think it is, therefore, appropriate for us to look at where the opportunities are for us to work together. The longest waiting times in Wales have fallen by 66 per cent from their peak in March 2022, and the average wait for those 1.5 million people is 21 weeks.

First Minister, the lifeblood of the national health service created by the Attlee Labour Government is its dedicated workforce. One of the very first acts under your administration, First Minister, was accepting in full the recommendations of independent pay bodies, meaning nurses and national health staff will get that 5.5 per cent, and junior doctors have voted to accept an additional 7.4 per cent, a total uplift of 12.4 per cent for the 2023-24 financial year. These are solid actions, and they clearly demonstrate that the Welsh Labour Government understands the importance of the workers at the heart of our health service. First Minister, what opportunities lie ahead for reducing NHS waiting times in Wales with a Welsh Labour Government working closely with NHS staff, alongside a UK Labour Government that understands the fundamental importance of the NHS to our people and our nation?

Thanks very much, Rhianon. You're quite right, the fact that we were able to make that offer was because we now have a Labour Government in Westminster. That was a priority, and because they awarded it in England in full, complying with the recommendations of the independent pay review body, that meant we were able to do the same. That demonstrates that the NHS is a priority for the Labour Government, and it's absolutely right that NHS staff are rewarded, particularly when you see the kind of pressure that they're under.

I think it's probably also worth emphasising that many of the people who use the NHS are, in fact, elderly. You're quite right, there's an issue about making decisions, but this is a decision that is actually helping the elderly to get the support that they need. We all have to make those difficult decisions. We know that the winter fuel cut is going to be difficult for people, but they also want support in the NHS, and that's what this pay reward is delivering.

Welsh Government awarded £2.65 million of grant funding to Bridgend County Borough Council for remedial works on affected homes. My officials are due to meet with them early next month to review progress made on the mobilisation works on the affected properties.

Thank you for that response, Prif Weinidog.

This, of course, is an issue that has been ongoing for over a decade and has been across the desks of, now, four First Ministers. It's an unacceptable situation to be in. Not a day has passed this summer without a constituent contacting me over the lack of progress, the lack of clarity and the lack of transparency of this project, and the fight continues for many residents for a fair deal. When I raised this with your predecessor, he said that the Welsh Government would need to see if there is a future remedy for the individual home owners. Now, I'm glad that your officials are meeting with Bridgend county borough officials, but I want to also seek a commitment from you today to take this work forward and to see that residents are given the compensation and support they deserve. More importantly, in the here and now, residents deserve to see the issues caused by the scheme resolved as soon as possible and an end to false promises. The bottom line: my constituents are tired, they're fed up, and they deserve better.

Thanks very much, and I absolutely understand the frustration of your constituents. This was not a model of how we wanted this particular project to work. It's a mechanism of insulating external walls; 104 homes were affected. It was because of poor workmanship, and that is not acceptable. I think it's probably worth underlining that, as a Government, there's no formal or legal responsibility for us to correct the situation, but the fact is that we have come forward with £2.6 million to help Bridgend council in order to make sure that people can get that work corrected. So, I know that the work has already started and there are opportunities for people to work with the council to make sure that they get the corrections that they need to their homes.

First Minister, I hear you saying that you understand people in Caerau's frustration at what you call the poor workmanship that got us to this state, but do you understand people in Caerau's frustration about how we got to this state? So, the contract for this work was awarded by Bridgend County Borough Council, using Welsh Government money, to a company called Green Renewable Wales, a company that had a local Labour Caerau councillor and a BCBC cabinet member as its director. It's unclear the level of due diligence that had been carried out regarding the appropriateness of the appointment of this company, but the fact that it was dissolved back in 2017 has made recouping the money that you mentioned lost from Green Renewable Wales almost impossible. So, will the Welsh Government commit to a formal review of both what happened with the Arbed scheme in Caerau and how it was allowed to happen, so that something like this can never happen again?

I think there's recognition that this wasn't a model that we expected to see, and I think there has been real frustration. But I think we are in a situation now where, following negotiations, Bridgend council have agreed to contribute £0.8 million to repair 25 homes, and the Welsh Government, as I say, has suggested that we'll make a contribution of £2.6 million for the remaining 79 homes. We didn't have to do that, but we recognise the frustration of many people. I think what's important—you're quite right—is that we need to learn lessons from this proposal, and I know that my colleague the Deputy First Minister has been making sure that the lessons are being learnt.

We have listened to the people of Wales, and they've been clear that better access to social care is a priority for them, and this has reinforced better access to social care as a continued priority for us as a Government. Progress has been made, as I mentioned earlier, but we know there's much further to go.

Thank you, First Minister. The social care sector is under tremendous pressure, which, as you yourself have said on many occasions, is having a direct impact on the NHS. The additional pressure of the changes brought about by the Health and Social Care (Wales) Bill is not welcomed by many involved in the sector. However well intentioned this piece of legislation is, and we all agree that we need to tackle profiteering in social care, it is a sledgehammer to crack a nut. It will, according to many, divert valuable resources away from the front-line services at a time when they should be increasing. It will also impact the budgets of struggling local authority social services departments. Therefore, First Minister, will you pause the introduction of this Bill and work with the sector to find better ways of tackling those who seek to profiteer from children's care? Thank you.

No, we're not going to pause the Bill. I think it's a really important Bill. And when you hear of the profiteering in a home in Liverpool last week, where, literally, councils were being asked to pay £20,000 a week to support people in care—that is not a situation that is sustainable. And it's absolutely wrong for us to see that kind of profiteering and it makes sense for us to invest in this area for the long-term sustainability. More than anything, children don't want to be seen as mechanisms of making money. It's an awful situation, and I do hope that you think through your objection to this, because you have to think, 'What is the alternative?' Because, keeping on going in the way that we are, we'll finish up, as they were in Liverpool, paying a huge amount, which is, frankly, unsustainable. And every time we're paying for that, that money is being taken away from somewhere else in the council. We have to get serious about this, and I think it makes absolute sense for us to change the model. It's difficult, it's going to be a transition, but it's absolutely the right thing to do.

We're working closely with the UK Government on their spending review to ensure investment opportunities for growth and jobs in Wales, including in Wrexham, are prioritised. 

Thank you. This investment announced by the outgoing Conservative UK Government really grabbed headlines, but you barely had to scratch the surface before alarm bells began to ring. The funding bypassed devolution, and those of a more cynical mind may conclude that it was an attempt by a failing Government to try and shore up support in some of their key areas.

Obviously, the new Labour Government is having to assess the dire financial situation it has inherited. But, despite the controversial nature of this funding, I know that members of the Wrexham city board have worked extremely hard, often meeting deadlines at short notice, with limited criteria and information available. Rather than plugging the gaps and helping the local authority to deliver basic services, I really believe that there remains a massive opportunity to deliver something very special with this funding.

I am aware that my parliamentary colleague Andrew Ranger has met with Ministers to discuss, but, as the Welsh Government has a proven track record of investing in Wrexham for the long term—exemplified by the Gateway project, by Transforming Towns and, of course, the ongoing construction of a national, dedicated football museum—will you and your Cabinet colleagues please emphasise to the UK Government the importance of this funding staying in Wrexham?

Thanks very much, Lesley, and it was great to visit Wrexham town centre with you recently to see what, already, has changed as a result of that investment in the town centre, because we have a long track record in Wales of that Transforming Towns funding. We've invested £125 million over three years to look at transforming towns, which is really important to the people of Wrexham and to other towns that have benefited. But it doesn’t make sense for us all to go at it in different ways—so, if the UK Government is doing something different in a competitive way and some are losing out as a result of that. I think that there has got to be a better way of doing this in partnership. The levelling-up fund, I think that didn’t work for us in the way that it should have. Lots of local authorities benefited, but, Flintshire and Merthyr, they didn’t get that reward. So, there are people, I think, who lost out as a result of that.

Then the shared prosperity fund—. Look, it was ridiculous that they bypassed the Welsh Government. It didn’t make any sense. And now we're going to have a situation where there are two Governments working together, trying to do their best to reform and to review our towns. And let’s not forget that we have that ‘town centre first’ policy that is embedded in our national framework. It is transforming our towns, but, if we were able to work with the UK Government, we’d be able to do so much more.

And finally, question 8—Joel James.

Receiving pension credit is the key for many older people in Wales to unlock further entitlements. Age UK recently estimated that 56,100 people in Wales are eligible but they're not claiming pension credit. Through collaborative work with the UK Government and our partners, we're increasing pension credit take-up in Wales.

First Minister, despite what your party colleagues here might say to defend the cruel Labour policy to end universal winter fuel allowance, I believe that we all know that this policy is a bad one that has caused widespread fear amongst a very vulnerable group. We can also predict that its most likely impact will be to push a great number of elderly people into poverty. As you have just mentioned, we've known for some time that many welfare entitlements are unclaimed in Wales, and a great deal of poverty could be alleviated if these were accessed. Therefore, First Minister, what proposals do you have to identify every pensioner in Wales entitled to pension credit and ensure that they have every available assistance in applying? Thank you.  

Thanks very much. What we know is that the very poorest pensioners will continue to be supported, but we also know that the pension credit is the gateway for unlocking that financial support. That's why, in Welsh Government, we've got a long-standing commitment to make sure that people claim what is theirs, and I'm very grateful to my colleague Jane Hutt for all the strenuous efforts she's made to make sure that people are aware of that. And the very fact that we've been working with the Department for Work and Pensions, with the UK Government, to drive up the number of people claiming—. We've seen a 115 per cent increase in pension credit claims in the past five weeks, compared to the five weeks before 29 July. So, it is helping, the fact that people are aware of it. There's a lot of information out there, in doctors' surgeries, in lots of other places, and it is important that those people who are entitled to it actually take up that opportunity.

I thank the First Minister.

The next item will be the business statement and announcement, and that statement is made by the Trefnydd, Jane Hutt.

Thank you very much, Llywydd. There are no changes to this week's business. Draft business for the next three weeks is set out in the business statement and announcement, which is available to Members electronically.

Trefnydd, can I call for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for health on the future of the NHS here in Wales? We know that the NHS is facing significant challenges in north Wales, but also they go beyond that, to the whole of the country. The UK Government commissioned an independent investigation of the NHS in England by Lord Darzi, and, having read that report, it's quite clear that, on nearly every single item listed in it, the NHS in Wales is performing worse than the situation identified in England. Now, I would like to know is the Welsh Government going to commission an independent review of our national health service here in Wales, so that we can expose the problems and the difficulties and challenges that are there, and finally, once and for all, get to grips with them. We have seven health boards in various degrees of Welsh Government intervention or special measures. That is simply not good enough. It wouldn't be the case if we were able to have an independent report that gave us a steer on how to get out of this mess that you've created after 25 years of a Labour Government here in Wales, and we want to know, from the new Cabinet Secretary for health, whether he will commission such an independent review.

Thank you very much, Darren Millar. We absolutely entirely agree with the recent independent review, undertaken by a very evidence-based, and, indeed, Labour, Lord, who actually saw for himself, not only as a physician himself, but also as a health Minister—. He actually identified all of the prerequisites for the future of a healthier nation and the NHS for Wales and, indeed, the rest of the UK. So, I think the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care very much endorses that report. Because, as the First Minister said earlier on, this is about prevention, primary care and public health, and, in many ways, it's about making sure that we have a health service, not a sickness service, and that's something that has driven us in terms of our investment and priorities in the health service. But I think also you will be pleased to note that the Cabinet Secretary is making a statement on winter preparedness this afternoon in the NHS, which, of course, will address many of the pressures on the NHS in the coming weeks.

Caerphilly council is set to decide tomorrow whether it will cut its meals on wheels service, used by its most vulnerable residents. I would request a Government statement, please, setting out what could be done to help ensure that local government can maintain these services as essential. A number of constituents have written to me not just with worries about this, but with fear. One constituent told me her mother relies on this service to remain living at home. She is housebound, she has limited mobility, she can't get at food in the freezer or use the microwave. She said that the meals on wheels staff—or Meals Direct—don't just bring her mother food, they help her keep her dignity, they check in on her; when they don't get an answer, they phone the family to check that she's all right. She said, in her words, 'The service is delivered by caring, dedicated teams of people who offer a lifeline to my mum, and the people they care for. They are not just a delivery service. It's shameful that this is even being considered.' Could the Government intervene in any way to ensure that this lifeline isn't lost?

There are so many ways in which local authorities, and, indeed, in partnership with the third sector and community groups, are supporting many vulnerable people, including senior citizens in the community, enabling them to stay in their own homes and accessing a range of services, including, still, some arrangements in terms of what we used to call 'meals on wheels'. But there are many different ways in which they're being delivered.

So, this is really important in terms of preventative—again, the points that we’ve just been making—and enabling people to stay in their homes, relieving the pressure on unpaid carers as well. So, obviously, this is something that we need to note and recognise in terms of the importance of these services. But local authorities are under such pressure now because of public finances, because of the £22 billion hole that we were left with after 14 years of austerity. And I know I said last week—[Interruption.] I notice the First Minister hasn’t mentioned the £22 billion. Well, I certainly am going to be mentioning it today, because it is actually having an impact on those kinds of front-line services.

This week is International Week of Deaf People, so I’d like to ask for a Government statement on what the Government is doing to support deaf and hard of hearing people across Wales. I’m very pleased that Wales is the only country in the UK to include British Sign Language in the curriculum, because it is so important that all children in Wales, hearing or not, have access to and awareness of education in other formats.

But there continue to be barriers in place for deaf and hard of hearing people in all parts of society, and I’ve previously raised the very limited access, for example, to participation in the public work of the Senedd, and also the problem of not having enough BSL interpreters, which does cause a real issue. So, I wondered if we could have a statement this week on the work that the Government is doing to support deaf and hard of hearing people, and to highlight the issues that arise.

Thank you very much, Julie Morgan, and, of course, this is really important in terms of the recognition, I think, globally this week, in terms of supporting deaf and hard of hearing people across Wales. I think this is where Welsh Government making provision to promote and facilitate the use of BSL, and its tactile forms in Wales, removing existing language barriers, is important, because we recognised BSL as a language of Wales in 2004. And it is important that there is this intention to develop a BSL unit within the skills suite qualification, and that’s part of the national 14 to 16 qualifications available to schools and learners for first teaching from September 2027.

We work closely, of course, with the National Deaf Children’s Society. We’ve developed an e-learning unit, but I think the most important thing is to engage, through the disability rights taskforce, with people with lived experience, to learn, with representative organisations, how we can improve the delivery of improvements for disabled people. And that taskforce, in terms of recommendations, has already recommended including increased provision of BSL in key areas such as health, children and young people, access to justice, and it will form actions in terms of equality for disabled people.

Also, it has to be about deaf BSL signers being a priority. I just want, Llywydd, for the record to say that we do have these all-Wales standards for communication and information for people with sensory loss. That was actually implemented in 2013, but I think we have a long way to go to deliver that. It would be good if it was more available in terms of our parliamentary circumstances here in the Senedd, and indeed in the public services that we are partners with, and that we fund and support in Wales.

Minister, can I please request a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales in relation to how the Government is supporting the development of active travel routes in appropriate locations? The reason for my request today is the need for an active travel route linking Pontypool, New Inn, Mamhilad, Little Mill and Usk together. This project, which is being spearheaded by the Welsh Conservative councillor for Llanbadoc and Usk, Tony Kear, has been in the works for more than a decade, yet appears to have stalled. Not only will this project reduce car usage in the area, but it would better connect residents with employment sites and other important areas, including schools. 

In a Monmouthshire council consultation last year, residents were asked if they would be more willing to travel by active routes if that adjacent to the A472 was improved or if an off-route was installed. Seventy-one to 88 per cent of respondents respectively said that they'd be more willing to do so. It's clear that the public is on board with this specific project, which has received planning permission and support from various groups and organisations. However, a problem over land ownership and various other issues has meant that the project has failed to get off the ground. So, a statement from the Cabinet Secretary, outlining exactly what steps the Welsh Government can take to help get the ball rolling with this important project, would be really appreciated. Thank you.

Well, I'm very pleased to report that the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales is taking this up. He's recognising it and he's going to take this forward. As you say, I think the important think is it's about this connection with active travel routes that actually make sense for people's lives and to access our public services.

Can I ask the Welsh Government to make the strongest possible representations to the UK Government about the critical situation in Sudan? The conflict there has set off the world's largest hunger crisis, and more than half the population—that's many millions of families—are now experiencing crisis levels of hunger. In fact, the UN tell us that 0.75 million people are now on the brink of famine. I know that foreign policy, as such, isn't devolved to the Senedd, but I do feel that we as a Senedd have a moral obligation to make representations to the UK Government to respond, both on a political and a humanitarian level, to save the lives of those innocent men, women and children who are now finding themselves facing the prospect of dying from hunger. So, could I ask for a statement from the First Minister, who of course has responsibility for international relations, explaining how the Welsh Government will be proactive in putting pressure on the UK Government to intervene, to avoid the imminent humanitarian disaster that's looming in Sudan?

Thank you, Llyr Gruffydd, for raising that issue today. I think it is important in this Chamber that these international and humanitarian issues are raised. As you know, it's not devolved, but we have a Wales and Africa programme, which we're very proud to support even in the toughest times; it's about priorities. And we have a very large, extensive and very welcome Sudanese diaspora living in Wales, with their families affected and caught up in the situation in the Sudan. I know that the First Minister will be asking officials to look at this, in terms of what the situation is and what the UK Government is doing in terms of the response to that humanitarian crisis.

I'd like to call for a statement on what discussions the Welsh Government have had with the UK Government on the soaring cost of the King's Guards' real-fur bearskin caps, and what work is being done to find a suitable alternative to real fur. Last week, it was reported that there has been a 30 per cent yearly increase in the cost of these caps, with each real-fur bearskin cap now costing around £2,000. And it was revealed that, in the last decade, £1 million has been spent on replacements. Of course, beyond the financial cost, there's the ethical cost of these bearskin caps, and that is hugely significant. It takes the fur from one black bear to make just one cap. To date, the Ministry of Defence have said that there is no suitable fake-fur alternative that meets the five tests it has set itself for a bearskin alternative. However, they have said they're open to considering fox-fur alternatives. I'm keen to know from the statement I've called for if there has been any progress on this matter, and if the First Minister, or her deputy, will raise this with Westminster. I look forward to a response.

Diolch yn fawr, Joyce Watson. Again, it is important that issues of this nature, which many would not be aware of, unless they'd seen your statement and questions, are brought to our attention. Of course, defence policy is reserved to the UK Government and the Ministry of Defence. And in that regard, the procurement of bearskins and policy on ceremonial uniforms are matters for the Ministry of Defence. Of course, this link is to the Welsh Guards, and many of us have had engagement, of course, as a Senedd with our Welsh Guards. But I think this is a matter for the Ministry of Defence and you've put this on the record today in the Chamber. 

Something that is devolved to Wales is transport matters. I'd like a statement, please, from the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales regarding overcrowding on Transport for Wales rail services in north Wales, and recent failures in planning for events with an increase in passenger numbers. The 10:30 Holyhead to Shrewsbury service on Saturday, which had to carry hundreds of football fans to Wrexham and many attendees of Chester races, had just one carriage. Passengers were packed into a singular carriage like sardines, which, as you can imagine, would make it very difficult, if not impossible, for the elderly, people with disabilities or parents with young children to board the train. It should be standard practice to make contingencies for events, like popular football matches or race days, by putting extra carriages on the train, yet issues with overcrowding for such events still seem to be a regular occurrence. 

With the purchase of new rolling stock, many would assume that there would be ample supply to ensure that enough carriages could be used for popular rail services, but this doesn't seem to be happening, and Transport for Wales passenger satisfaction and well-being is still on the decline. Constant overcrowding and recent fare rises also have the potential to impact tourism to Wales, which your Government is also hostile to. So, can the Cabinet Secretary for transport make a statement on how the Welsh Government is working with Transport for Wales to reduce overcrowding? And can you clarify whether there is a sufficient supply of rolling stock? Thank you very much. 

Well, there are, I have to say—. Thank you for the question, but I think I need to put the record straight on some of the points that you've made. Well, first of all, let's just be proud of Transport for Wales. Let's be proud of the fact that Transport for Wales recorded the greatest improvement of all operators in both punctuality and reliability across Great Britain between April and June, compared with the same period last year. And weren't we proud when we—I have to say 'apologies' for this—when we were in Liverpool, saying that we have got our Transport for Wales already in our ownership here in Wales. It was a great moment to make that point. 

But also, just to say, the issues in terms of crowding do often relate to events, as you've said. I recognise that. But also, when there are issues in relation to particular events, and I have to say that that often does associate with—. And in the south, for example, the busiest station, of course, is Cardiff Central. And we, of course, have to then work with the UK Government in relation to funding, delivering improvements to stations—particularly stations in terms of the UK Government—to handle the passengers that we serve.

But I think it is important that we recognise that this is about a Transport for Wales rail service, which not only has, as I've said, the greatest improvement and is more reliable, but is also responsive to customer need and circumstance. I must say that I very much enjoyed my journeys on Transport for Wales to the north last night and, indeed, on Saturday, and it was an excellent service. Certainly, there was no overcrowding on those rail journeys, as you all, who travel down and are proud to be travelling on our Transport for Wales trains, as so many of you do every week. 

May I ask for a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for health regarding the future of health services in west Wales? Now, this Thursday, Hywel Dda health board will be considering a number of cuts to healthcare provision in west Wales, which include potentially decreasing the number of beds in Tregaron Hospital, closing the children's unit in Bronglais hospital temporarily and transferring them to Glangwili in Carmarthen, which is about an hour away, and temporarily closing the minor injuries unit overnight in Llanelli hospital, leaving the largest town in west Wales without 24-hour provision for accidents and emergencies or minor injuries. These proposed cuts have already caused a great deal of concern across the region, particularly in communities that have become familiar with cuts, in terms of surgeries closing, dentists not being available, and so on, over the past decade. Inevitably, you will be placing the blame on the health board, but the truth is that you as a Government have failed these rural communities because you haven’t provided adequate funding to recruit sufficient numbers of nurses and doctors to ensure that these services can continue. Can we, therefore, have an urgent statement by the Minister in response to these potential cuts in west Wales?

Thank you very much for that important question.

I’m pleased to say that the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care will be meeting with Hywel Dda University Health Board this week and, clearly, those policy issues and changes as a result of pressures will be on the agenda. Interestingly and importantly, and you will know, Cefin Campbell, in relation, for example, to the minor injury unit at Prince Philip Hospital—of course, this is still in discussion in terms of the board—it’s important that the board actually does engage with Llais, the voice of patients in Wales, and its local communities and follows national service guidance. We’re assured that the health board is engaging with local communities as they consider long-term planning. I think, in relation to all of these changes and pressures and proposals for change resulting from pressure and policy needs and patient needs, we do look to the voice of patients, Llais, to help with that community engagement. But the Cabinet Secretary will be himself, of course, engaging directly with the board this week.

Could I have a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for housing and planning regarding the unacceptable pace of the fire safety remediation work that the Welsh Government has been undertaking for the past seven years since the awful tragedy of Grenfell? It was only at the beginning of this September that I drew attention to the fact that there are still 53 high-rise buildings that remain to be identified for any remediation need. Only this week, I received a response from the Cabinet Secretary stating that, out of 238 private tenure buildings earmarked for crucial fire safety work, only three have had the works completed. This is an embarrassment to the Welsh Government and it’s shocking that those residents are left living in fear. This represents a success rate of 1.26 per cent, and it does raise significant questions about how serious this Welsh Government is taking the matter. Would the Cabinet Secretary please provide this statement and outline what steps the Welsh Government is actually taking to treat this matter as serious and expedite the actual building safety aspects so that these people can no longer live in fear? Diolch.

Diolch, Janet Finch-Saunders, and it is important, I think, today, that I reflect, in answering that question, as your Trefnydd, that our thoughts are with all those who were and continue to be affected by the Grenfell tower fire. We very much welcome the publication of 'Grenfell Tower Inquiry: Phase 2 Report' and we’re carefully considering the recommendations. We’re committed, of course, as a Welsh Government to ensuring the highest standards of building safety for all residents in Wales. We’ve taken robust action in addressing the recommendations of previous reports. We’ve committed to delivering a Building Safety (Wales) Bill by the end of this Senedd term, and that was not just reaffirmed by the First Minister last week in terms of priorities, but also we’ve commenced importantly relevant parts of the Building Safety Act 2022 to bring about reform to design and construction of higher risk buildings, and changes to regulation of the building control profession. But, just to give you the final point of update, it’s intended that a written statement will be issued this week responding to the Grenfell phase 2 report, setting out work being undertaken in Wales to address fire safety issues, and that includes that commitment to deliver a Building Safety (Wales) Bill.

May I ask for two statements, please? First, it's almost a year since we saw changes to bus timetables on the TrawsCymru routes, and this follows cuts implemented by your Government. If my inbox is anything to go by on this, then it's clear that the changes have been a disastrous failure, with vulnerable people not being able to access services, and children and young people not being able to get to sports clubs, and so on. So, can we have a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for transport, outlining an assessment of the impact of these cuts, please, over the past year since they were introduced?

Secondly, can we have a statement from the Minister for agriculture on the funding system for woodland and habitat sites until the new sustainable farming scheme is introduced? A number of farmers, for example, have designated land for woodland or habitat with conditions not to graze that land, and, in light of that, they have received funding to sustain them under Glastir advanced. Now, that programme has come to an end and no funding has been introduced to replace it, which means that many of these farmers now have lands that aren't productive and yet it costs to maintain them, and they are considering felling that woodland. So, it would be good to hear what financial system the Cabinet Secretary has in mind for these lands until the new SFS is introduced. Thank you.

Thank you very much for your questions, Mabon. 

The Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales will be assessing the impact of changes on the TrawsCymru lines, and, of course, that does relate to the whole range of uses of that line, from everyday use by children and young people and older people, to tourism. We'll be looking at that. 

And secondly, I will raise with the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs the issue about what assessment is being taken in terms of the circumstances for those woodland sites as we move forward with the sustainable farming scheme outcomes.

Good afternoon, Trefnydd. I'd like to request two statements, if I may, with one from the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning with regard to rural banks. Lloyds Bank have announced a third closure in Brecon and Radnorshire. They've closed one in Ystradgynlais, they're intending to close one in Presteigne, and another one in Brecon. Lloyds Bank made a profit of £7.5 billion last year, up from £4.8 billion the year before. This is not a bank that is struggling. This is a bank that owes their communities banks that meet their needs. So, I'd like to ask the Welsh Government exactly what they're doing in order to ensure that there is access to cash within our rural communities.

And secondly, could I ask for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs, for an update on the phased ban on greyhound racing? In March this year, the consultation ended, and we've heard nothing with regard to the timetable. In June of this year, the Greyhound Board of Great Britain published their report revealing a shocking 47 per cent increase in racing-related canine deaths and euthanasia cases. This cannot be allowed to continue, so I'd like an update on the timetable please. Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd.

Diolch yn fawr, Jane Dodds. Thank you for drawing attention to the vast profits of Lloyds Bank, as banks continue to draw out of our communities, come out of our communities, closing bank branches. Three hundred and seventy six bank branches have closed in Wales since January 2015, and that's such a loss to those highly valued services. And you've drawn attention particularly to the needs of people in rural communities. So, we've been championing the specific needs of Welsh communities, looking at accessing cash and face-to-face banking services. Of course, now the Cabinet Secretary for the economy is taking on these responsibilities, and, of course, it's an issue of social justice as well in terms of access to financial services and financial inclusion. We have banking hub roll-outs, and I'm pleased that the UK Government has said that they want to see a network of banking hubs expanded, bu also, looking at our relationships with the Financial Conduct Authority, Link and Cash Access UK, they're championing the needs of sections of the population who rely most on accessing cash and face-to-face banking services. But also, we are working with many of our banking partners in Wales, for example—those who are responsible lenders, not just our credit unions, which, of course, are across Wales, but also those responsible lenders like the Principality Building Society, who are trialling OneBanx. We've also done all our work on the community bank as well.

Thank you very much for your question. We will be progressing this with the Cabinet Secretary for the economy. 

Right, if we move to the second question, in terms of the response, I’m sure, from the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs, it is important that we look at timelines now on licensing of animal welfare establishments. It closed in March, as you know. It received over 1,100 detailed responses. It does help inform the development of a national model for the regulation of animal welfare, which has come up more than once this afternoon, and it's also a review of current legislation. It looks at where improvements can be made. And, as you know, included in the questions in the consultation was the future of greyhound racing in Wales. So, we're grateful to all of those who responded, we're evaluating the evidence and we'll publish a summary of responses, and the Cabinet Secretary will make a statement on our next steps in due course.

I’d like to turn to the question of active travel, Trefnydd, to request a debate in Government time. There was a report last week from Audit Wales that showed that our ambitions are a long way from being achieved, echoing a report two weeks before that by the Government's active travel delivery board, which says that progress is painfully slow, both of whom draw heavily on the work of the cross-party group here in the Senedd, which, in its review of the Active Travel (Wales) Act 2013, showed there were a number of areas where improvements need to be made.

And the themes are common. There's now a strong evidence base to show that there are problems with data collection, the lack of capacity in councils, and there is a need to prioritise investment where it will have the greatest impact. We heard from Natasha Asghar earlier that there is demand right across Wales for a pipeline of schemes to be developed, and there is some concern that the reprioritisation by the Government to put an emphasis on potholes, which I think we all support, should not come at the expense of the active travel fund, which is a long-term commitment for preventative work, and these things take time to stitch together. So, now is a time to refine our approach, not abandon our approach, and I'd be grateful for a proper chance in Government time to debate this more fully.

Diolch yn fawr, Lee Waters. Can we, as we always do, pay tribute to your work, as the instigator, I have to say, of the active travel Act, but also for the issues that you have taken forward consistently throughout your working and political life? I think the Audit Wales active travel report was important, as you say. Many of the issues were already recognised. They've been raised by the cross-party group, I understand, on the active travel Act, back in 2022. So, just taking on board the points that you've made, you will be aware, of course, of the active travel delivery plan 2024-27. That was developed very much in response to the cross-party group findings published earlier this year, and it is about how this is implemented along with the roll-out of the national travel survey. But I think we're in an excellent position now with Transport for Wales—looking to the Cabinet Secretary for transport—supporting local authorities and also the corporate joint committees to deliver those improvements. We need community engagement in planning and design and schemes to support the right opportunities for more making trips by foot and by cycle, but also very helpful to make that connection also with access to public services as well.

Diolch i'r Trefnydd. We're out of time on this business statement, even though I have at least three more speakers wanting to contribute. Could I just suggest to political groups that, if you have speakers calling for statements, and you have many down for the day, that those other speakers in your groups could just ask for one statement rather than one, two or possibly three statements? That would have enabled me today most definitely to have called all speakers from all groups. Just a little point for the future.

The next item is a motion to elect Members to committees. In accordance with Standing Orders 12.24 and 12.40, unless there are any objections, I propose that the motions to elect Members to committees are grouped for debate and for voting. Does any Member object? No. We will do that. I call on a member of the Business Committee to formally move the motions. Formally, Trefnydd?

Formally. 

Formally. Thank you very much. Does any Member object? No. Those motions are therefore agreed under Standing Order 12.36. 

The next item is a statement by the First Minister on inter-governmental relations. I call on the Prif Weinidog to make the statement—Eluned Morgan. 

Diolch yn fawr. The Welsh Government is determined to deliver on our priorities. We will do this by working with public sector partners, those in Wales and beyond, in particular the new UK Labour Government. As First Minister, I commit to bringing energy and respect to this important work, and continue to stand up for Wales’s interests within a thriving and vibrant union. Two Governments working together for the benefit of Wales is in the best interests of people right across the country.

We have not always seen respect in our inter-governmental landscapes over the last decade and a half. Of the 25 years of devolution, half of that time has been spent working alongside a Government that doesn’t respect the devolution settlement, and didn’t have Wales’s best interests at heart. We will shortly be laying and publishing the 2023-2024 inter-governmental relations annual report. I'm not going to dwell on that further, but I invite Members to read it and reflect for themselves on how inter-governmental relationships suffered during the previous UK Government’s time in power.

The formation of the new UK Government has provided a major opportunity to reset relations and begin a new era of partnership between the Welsh and UK Governments. We are determined to work together in the interests of delivering for the citizens of Wales. This doesn't mean that we will always choose the same path as colleagues working in London, but when we do disagree, we'll do that with respect and we'll always ensure that those decisions work in the best interests of the people of Wales.

That shared commitment to reset relations has already been very evident over the summer. I have had conversations with the Prime Minister, Chancellor and the Secretary of State for Wales to facilitate a collective response to critical immediate issues—on Tata, on public sector pay, on the issues that matter most to the people of Wales. Those conversations have opened a space to work in partnership to support and respect each other’s priorities.

We've seen positive engagement on the UK Government’s legislative programme, and we look forward to working with them on Bills in that programme that can benefit Wales. There are clearly areas where we in Wales can share our own experience and expertise, and we stand ready to do so. I also look forward to working together with the new UK Government to strengthen the Sewel convention through a new memorandum of understanding outlining how the nations will work together for the common good.

Our engagement with the Chancellor and Chief Secretary to the Treasury has very much reflected a positive resetting of relationships and reinvigoration of collaborative spirit. When the then Cabinet Secretary for Finance and I met with the Chancellor in August, we agreed on the need to set the foundations for a close and productive relationship to achieve tangible outcomes for our shared priorities in Wales. I was able to highlight the issues that are important to Wales, including our engagement in the UK spending review, fair funding for Wales and budgetary flexibilities.

We must remember that the previous UK Government's economic record over the past 14 years has left significant challenges. Addressing the impacts on individuals, communities and public finances will require considerable time and effort. However, I am confident that, in the new UK Government, we have a committed partner who will work with us on a shared vision for Wales’s future. Of course, inter-governmental relationships across these islands are not simply bilateral. The Welsh Government has always benefited from strong relationships with the other devolved Governments, and with the British-Irish Council. We will continue to build on these positive relationships.

The Welsh Government continues to believe that the review of inter-governmental relations, agreed in January 2022, can provide the machinery needed to bring the Governments of the UK together, to discuss the right things at the right time. But there are more connections to be made and strengthened, and that is why we welcome the Prime Minister’s proposal for a new council of nations and regions—a way to bring together the Governments and the mayors of combined authorities across the UK. I look forward to participating in the first meeting, which will be held in the coming weeks.

In strengthening our inter-governmental relations and the devolution settlement, we'll seek to progress and build on the conclusions and recommendations of the Independent Commission on the Constitutional Future of Wales. The strengthening of inter-governmental relations since the UK elections is something to be really strongly welcomed. The Welsh Government will seek to capitalise on the opportunity to work in partnership with the UK Government for the benefit of the people of Wales.

The First Minister, in her opening remarks, tried to paint a picture of non-co-operation in the 14 years of the Conservative Government in Westminster. I find that bizarre, when you think there was a referendum for further law-making powers for this place in 2011; there was the Silk commission; there were two Welsh Acts that transferred huge amounts of responsibilities, rightly, to this Parliament; and there was the dividend, as I see it, from Brexit, which brought powers from Brussels to this institution. We can debate the other points, but 80 responsibilities came back to this place from Brussels.

I can also remember that the leaders at the time would spend considerable time in Cathays Park, and in Westminster, discussing and debating what should be within those Welsh Bills that came forward transferring those responsibilities, and there was genuine co-operation. So, far from it being a barren desert of co-operation, there were solid negotiations with tangible results. That's why we sit in a legislative Parliament with tax-raising powers today, here in Cardiff Bay, rather than the talking shop that was set up by the Labour Party after the 1997 referendum.

I have a series of questions to ask the First Minister, because she highlights meetings that have been undertaken between herself and her Cabinet colleagues and Ministers in Westminster. I pressed her, in First Minister's questions, about this offer to take waiting-list patients into capacity that is deemed available in England, yet I note the statement doesn't touch on a single meeting between Wes Streeting, the health Minister, and any of her Ministers, despite her listing a series of discussions and meetings that she and other Ministers have had with other senior figures within the Westminster Government. So, can she, in reply to me, confirm how many meetings have taken place between Welsh Government Ministers, and, indeed, herself, and the health Minister in London, to discuss the capacity, the resource, and the ability for people to access this offer that was announced at the Labour Party conference yesterday? I think that's a legitimate question when people are trying to understand whether it's just a press release or a solid offer that has come forward from the Westminster Government in this new era of co-operation.

I also note that she highlights meetings between the Chancellor, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury and the finance Minister here in Cardiff Bay. We know that one of the biggest announcements that's been made since Labour took office in London is the withdrawal of the winter fuel allowance for pensioners that will take £110 million away from pensioners and affect 400,000 households, with 580,000 pensioners losing that right to warm their homes this winter, because they won't have that benefit. So, can she highlight to me what representations, in those meetings, she and other Ministers have made to highlight the detrimental impact to Welsh pensioners and, indeed, communities across Wales? Because it's all well and good talking about the reforming of the funding formula and end-of-year budget flexibilities, but a real, tangible result of Labour taking control on 4 July is the withdrawal of the winter fuel allowance for pensioners here in Wales. So, what representations did you make, First Minister, and what representations did your Cabinet colleagues make? 

I'd also like to try and understand, given the Secretary of State for Wales's aversion to actually engaging in any of the independent commission's recommendations, which was a considerable piece of work that the Welsh Government was supporting in its earlier tenure, after 2021, how you are going to actually bring forward those proposals with the Westminster Government's engagement, and bring forward the support that the Welsh Government wish to achieve in Westminster of devolution of aspects of the justice system and other areas that you believe would be best served here in Wales. I and the Welsh Conservatives don't believe that is the case, but as that piece of work was such a big piece of the Welsh Government's work in the early years of this Parliament, it's interesting to try and understand, given this wonderful new era that we have of inter-governmental relations, when we're going to see tangible results on progress on the independent commission on constitutional change.

And then the final question I have to her is this: given that she has such a low regard for the relationship of the Prime Minister and her, and that she has such a regard for building a relationship with Donald Trump—because she puts the two relationships on the same pedestal—how is she, going forward, going to make sure that she can get through the front door to No. 10 to have those discussions with the Prime Minister? Because it's a pretty low bar when you're on a tv programme and you say you have a better chance of influencing Donald Trump than you do the party leader in London, who is the Prime Minister. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.

Thanks very much. I'm going to talk about my experience with the UK Government. To be honest, it was very limited. During the pandemic, to be fair, there were really strong relationships, very consistent discussions with people like Matt Hancock, people like Sajid Javid, and the moment they left the scene there was no relationship at all. That coincided with the time of absolute turmoil in your party. The real problem is that that turmoil infected everything that was going on in Government. They were wasted years, when people could have seen a difference in their lives. The fact is that that inter-governmental relationship absolutely broke down. I'm not sure how it worked for other members of the Government team, but I'm speaking for myself, and I can tell you that there was no relationship. So, I think you have got to take a degree of responsibility in the Tory party for that.

You talked about a dividend from Brexit. Well, I can't see much of a dividend from Brexit. Last week in a letter, you asked me to justify, after I spoke in First Minister's questions, how I could say that our exports have dropped. I hope you saw evidence to demonstrate that they have dropped. And also you promised in that referendum that Wales wouldn't be worse off financially, and it is. That is undeniable.

I don't know what's happened during the summer. It was a very strange summer, wasn't it? It was certainly a very strange summer for me. But it seemed like a bit of a strange summer for you, because you turned up at an agricultural show and you were genuinely asking people, 'Are you for or against devolution?' What a mad world you're living in, when you're sitting in this Parliament, and soon you're going to be going out and asking people about whether they should vote for you, and you're not even sure whether this place should exist. I've been in this position for 48 days—[Interruption.]

Can we allow the First Minister to respond, please?

I've been in this position for 48 days, and as it happens, it turns out that I am managing to have lots of meetings with lots of people in the UK Government. So, I do have influence; I probably wouldn't have that influence with some people the other side of the Atlantic. So, it's great. The important thing for me is that, actually, we deliver as a result of those conversations. It is still very early days, but, already, we've delivered inflation-busting pay rises, we've delivered a better deal than you were able to offer in Tata, and we've also been able to work together on an expansion to rail services in north Wales. Those are three very tangible differences in 48 days. I think that's something we can be proud of. We've done that in 48 days. Just hold your breath, because there's a heck of a lot more coming.

The First Minister, very kindly, wanted to give me a lesson earlier this afternoon about how devolution works. Essentially, don't mention UK Government, don't mention Keir Starmer in the Welsh Parliament—we're here to talk about devolved things. And I get it, it is rather difficult. It turns out some of his actions are rather unpopular. Maybe it's, 'Don't be critical about Keir Starmer or UK Government.' Maybe I understood. But since then she's been more than happy to talk about Wales’s relationship with the UK Government in answer to other questions—how the relationship works on health and so on. And now we have this statement, at her instigation, literally about the relationship between Welsh Government and UK Government, reminding us that the nature of the relationship that Wales has with other parts of these islands and, yes, with the UK Government and the Prime Minister—I'll name him, Keir Starmer—is rather important. That's number 22, I think, isn't it? She really cannot pick and choose. I will hold him to account from here in the Welsh Parliament.

Two Labour Governments working in partnership for the benefit of the people of Wales—that was the pledge before the general election. That's what we're supposed to believe is the principle driving the work of the new First Minister. The problem, of course, is that the words of the First Minister herself over the past few days have undermined that pledge. The admission from the First Minister on her lack of influence on Keir Starmer—as much influence as she has over Donald Trump, those were her own words—is a cause of concern.

I'll point to three examples of shortfalls in the so-called partnership in power between Labour in Welsh and UK Governments: (1) rather than having to rely on a conference press release, let's see the text of the agreement that underpins its cross-border health plan, so we can interrogate the governance and funding arrangements, otherwise we might think it was just a stunt; (2) a response to a recent Plaid Cymru written question revealed that the First Minister hadn't even tried to fight Wales’s corner on critical issues like devolution of the Crown Estate, something she claims to want urgently. Has the First Minister now had a conversation with the UK Government about the devolution of the Crown Estate? I hope she has. Has she pointed out that, as it stands, the Crown Estate is due to be handed more borrowing powers than her own Welsh Government, or that, as it's currently designed, GB Energy will provide more benefits to businesses and consumers in the south east of England than it will to communities in Wales? And (3), in her statement, the First Minister says she has raised fair funding with the Chancellor, but her concept of what is fair differs rather fundamentally from mine, I must say. She has already confirmed to me in writing that Labour will not honour its previous commitment to scrap the Barnett formula. Perhaps she can explain how she proposes to introduce fairness to a formula that is fundamentally unfair and which one of her predecessors just could not defend.

We know, don't we, that, under the last Tory Government, inter-governmental relations were a one-way street, I agree with the First Minister, with Westminster and Whitehall only wanting to dictate terms to this Senedd, and so often legislation was passed there over the heads of elected Members here, undermining the integrity of Welsh democracy. The evidence that the UK’s inter-governmental infrastructure in general doesn't work is overwhelming. The Institute for Government, UK in a Changing Europe, the Centre on Constitutional Change, among many others, all agree on this point, and the First Minister’s predecessor but one condemned it as 'not fit for purpose'.

But under a new UK Labour Government, what fundamentally has changed? Yes, there are some warmer words. We have some chummy photo shoots outside the Labour conference. But what has fundamentally changed? We don't know yet, for example, how the so-called council of nations and regions will work or whether it'll fit into the UK's existing IGR architecture. What little we know about the design of this new council is strikingly Anglocentric isn't it? We know something about planned relationships between central Government and English regions, but nothing, really, about what it means for Wales, or indeed how Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland relate to each other. Perhaps the First Minister might explain a little about those relationships.

So, the current systems aren't effective, and what's being proposed by Labour is at best ambiguous at the moment. The ideas emerge from somewhere in the Gordon Brown commission. The recommendations of that commission were quite weak in the first instance, of course, but now they've been diluted to a point that one can't even hope for, never mind deliver, real change. What we need now is a Government who will truly push the envelope in terms of how the relationship between different parts of these isles can work effectively, and stand up for the interests of Wales in those key discussions with the new Labour Government, and Plaid Cymru is asking for the opportunity to do that in a constructive manner. And without that kind of approach, the pledge of change is meaningless in reality. Would the First Minister agree with that?

Well, thanks very much, and, yes, 24 times now, and I'm sure we'll keep a tally on how many times you mention that particular word and how many times you really focus on the things that matter to the people in Wales.

I just wonder whether you actually want us to work together across the United Kingdom, because I'm telling you what, my understanding, from talking to people in the streets over the summer, is that they're very keen for us to work together with the UK Government when that is of benefit to us. So, I think it's important for us to look ahead. It's very early days. I mean, in 48 days, most of that in recess, I think actually we've achieved quite a lot. I think the fact that the finance Secretary has written to the Chancellor outlining the commitments and the things that we're looking for in the autumn budget—I think it's probably worth underlining some of those, and emphasising that, actually, that initial release of £13.5 million from the £80 million committed to support the Tata Steel transition—. It was sitting in the bank account under the Tories for a very long time. Within weeks it was released once we got into power. So, that wouldn't have been done without the new Labour Government. Opportunities to support research and development investment in Wales; we need to work in partnership on arrangements for post-EU funds. It's important, I think, for us to develop a programme of investment to ensure that disused coal tips are safe. We of course want to continue that case for a fair funding approach in the application of Barnett in relation to rail funding, and really highlight the opportunities to support the Welsh economy and the transition to net zero, by providing investment in Welsh ports and nuclear investment. So, there's a whole load of things, actually, that we've tried to pursue with the Government. There's a whole long list of things that everybody else is going to the Chancellor with, and she of course needs to find a way of filling that £22 billion black hole.

Just in terms of when that will happen, well, I think most of it will come up during the autumn statement. I think it was great to hear that austerity is ending, and that's something we certainly all welcome. And I think, probably, it is worth mentioning that we do agree in principle with the inter-governmental review that was introduced by the Conservatives. We do need a formal mechanism. The problem is, they didn't do anything with it. They had one meeting the entire time. So, the council of nations and regions, I think, is going to be a new approach to that, and will be meeting within the next few weeks.

First Minister, Wales's economy is still struggling to find its way after the structural changes of the decline of heavy industries such as coal and steel, and substantial investment is required. In terms of how our new Labour UK Government can help, I do think Gordon Brown's report, 'A New Britain: Renewing our Democracy and Rebuilding our Economy', sets out practical measures to address those regional economic inequalities: substantial investment in clusters such as semiconductors and cyber security in south-east Wales; the transition to green steel; rebuilding our infrastructure, including rail and renewable energy; and relocating public sector jobs to Wales, where we have such a strong track record in areas such as Newport, where we have the statistics office, patent office, prison service, and passports, for example. So, First Minister, will you work with the UK Labour Government to deliver this badly needed support for our Welsh economy?

Diolch yn fawr, John, and you've always been such a strong advocate for devolution and the power of devolution to be able to change people's lives for good. I think it's probably worth underlining, as you say, the Gordon Brown report, but also mentioning the Independent Commission on the Constitutional Future of Wales. I think there are real opportunities for us to look at that and to make sure that we're driving forward with some of the recommendations in that.

You will know, John, that the absolute No. 1 priority of the new UK Labour Government is to grow the economy. We are very much on the same page as that, because we know, unless you grow the economy, you can't pay for your public services, so I do think that that is the right way to go about things. We've been through a really difficult time: we've had Brexit, we've had austerity, we've had COVID, we've had inflation. I do think that now is the time for hope, for people to look to the future, for us to grab the opportunities and to really drive forward a future that is bright and provides opportunities for the people in our communities. And those people in your community, John, really have some incredible opportunities now, particularly in things like the cyber cluster that exists in your area. These are cutting-edge jobs that are really transforming the lives of people and making sure that we stay safe, and we have that expertise within your community, and I think that's something we should absolutely celebrate.

Peredur Owen Griffiths as Chair of the Finance Committee.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'd like to make a few remarks in response to the statement, as Chair of the Finance Committee. Strong inter-governmental relations are essential for the Governments of the UK to work together constructively and collaboratively. This is an issue that the Finance Committee feels strongly about, especially in relation to fiscal matters. And that is why prior to the summer, we began an inquiry into the effectiveness of inter-governmental relations structures, and considered the current dispute resolution mechanisms. We aim to publish a report on this issue and I look forward to bringing forward a debate on the matter in this Siambr on behalf of the Finance Committee this term.

Since we began our inquiry, significant changes have taken place in Westminster, with a change in the UK Government and also a change in personnel within the Welsh Government. This is an opportunity to reset relationships, and we hope our forthcoming report will help to strengthen inter-governmental relations and ensure parity of esteem. And with that in mind, and given the evidence that we have received that demonstrates the importance of effective inter-governmental relations to fiscal devolution, I'd like to ask the First Minister to elaborate on what specific discussions she and the Cabinet Secretary have had with the Chancellor and her ministerial colleagues at the Treasury on improving processes relating to finance, and what her vision is for the future of inter-governmental relations with regard to fiscal matters.

Thank you, Peredur, and thank you for your work on the committee. I think there is a formal process in place, but it hasn't yet been used in terms of disputes resolution, but nobody has used that process as of yet. But I think, in terms of funding, it is important that we establish a way of ensuring that we do have a means of ensuring that people know what we need, first of all, but, secondly, if we do need further discussions—as I have been discussing with the Chancellor over the weekend, in terms of what our priorities are, what we want to see contained within the budget—I think it's then important that we do have an opportunity to approach her. But the fact is that the powers and the money are held by the Treasury. That’s where it is. There is a process in terms of where we get the money from and when we get that money, and we are very keen that there are to be changes in the way that we are funded, and, clearly, that is something that I discussed with her. But we are just starting that discussion; there’s a long way to go.

First Minister, thank you, firstly, for your statement. The value to the Welsh people of having two Governments in Cardiff and London working together to improve their lives cannot be underestimated, and it has been missing for 14 long years. The Labour Prime Minister, Keir Starmer, has signalled a strong proposal for a new council of nations and regions, a mechanism to bring together the Governments and the mayors of combined authorities. That has also been missing. This new offer and fresh approach from a UK Labour Government vividly demonstrates the potential of a Welsh Labour Government working alongside a UK Labour Government, and sometimes it is hard to believe that this is a brand-new UK Labour Government—it has just been born. But it is an absolute fact that, after the appalling attack on UK finances—

You do need to ask your question now, please. 

—during 14 long years of Conservative management, there is a great big hole to be filled. My question, First Minister: what policy areas and strategic opportunities have you identified that will be advanced via constructive dialogue alongside our UK Government colleagues that will support and benefit and help the people of Wales?

Thanks very much, Rhianon, and you’re absolutely right, I think this is an opportunity now, with two Governments, one mission. And part of that mission will be economic growth, and some of that, I’m sure, will be debated through that new structure of the council of nations and regions. And I think it probably is worth talking about how we can learn from each other. The point of devolution is that we can do things differently. We don’t all have to be the same. We can adapt and adjust to what is needed within our own communities. And it was really useful to speak, for example, to Sadiq Khan about how they have rolled out free school meals to primary schools and what they’ve learnt already and where we can perhaps learn—just as we’ve rolled out that programme, what is the learning. Apparently, the very early indications are that it’s a super-successful programme. But Andy Burnham also—an opportunity for us to learn from him in terms of transport and what’s happening in care.

So, I think there’s an opportunity for us all to gather, to look at best practice, and it’s not a bad thing that we all do things differently; I think it’s something we should celebrate. But, just in terms of policy areas, the obvious one for us all to focus on is the economy. I think, when you look at the potential of green renewable energy, in particular in the Celtic sea, I think that is a huge opportunity. I don’t think it is something that we’ll be able to manage in Wales ourselves—you need incredibly deep pockets to be able to drive that kind of commitment and development forward, and that’s where partnership will be absolutely crucial.

After telling me to write to my MP about decisions taken by the UK Government that harm the people of Wales, and chiding Plaid Cymru for asking you to stand up for the people of Wales, I think I need to remind you about how the present devolution settlement works, Prif Weinidog, because the decisions of the UK Government directly affect many stated aims and ambitions and resources available to the Welsh Government. You’ve said you’d ensure that those decisions would work in the best interests of the people of Wales this afternoon. That’s what the community Secretary Carl Sargeant said at the time that was key to the decision made by the Welsh Government to drop child poverty targets in 2016. Check the record. And this has been repeated by his successors, including the former First Minister Mark Drakeford, and the current social justice Cabinet Secretary. So, that’s why I asked you to call on the UK Government to scrap the two-child limit and the benefit cap, because it affects 65,000 children in Wales. So, will you commit to that today, and will you commit to statutory child poverty targets? Those targets could perhaps prompt you to take a harder line with your UK Labour colleagues on this issue. Partnership rings hollow for those thousands of children in poverty in Wales.

Well, what I will say, Sioned, is that devolution is a complex beast, but it is a beast where there are clear demarcation lines. And this place is about holding me to account for the things that I have power over. Now, of course we will try and influence, and of course we will have opinions on what is good and bad for Wales. But I can't pretend to run an entire UK Government and hold the entire UK Government to account every single week in this Chamber. If that's what you want to do, you should have gone to Westminster. Now, we will effect change where we can, and, when it comes to child poverty, you will know, because we've done this in partnership with you, that actually the fact that we have been able to deliver free school meals to primary school children is a direct approach to trying to resolve the issue of child poverty. So, we'll effect change where we can—[Interruption.]—where we can and how we can, but let's be clear: there are very clear demarcation lines in terms of what we're responsible for and what we're not.

Sioned Williams has made it clear why co-operation is so important between this place and Westminster. And it's important that this happens regardless of what party is in power. As Andrew R.T. Davies said, the Conservatives did demonstrate some respect for the devolution settlement—that is, until Brexit; ironically, in terms of Andrew's later argument, it's Brexit that changed that situation. But I'd like to know, therefore, more about the council of the nations and regions. As Rhun ap Iorwerth said, we don't know a great deal about the council yet, although I was pleased to hear that Keir Starmer—sorry, another name count for him—is going to attend the meeting. That hasn't happened a great deal over the past few years. I see from your statement that you do support the changes that were made in 2022 in terms of the inter-governmental relationship. So, how will the new council of nations dovetail with these changes, especially in terms of the council that was established back in 2022? We don't want too many councils, do we? Thank you.

Diolch yn fawr. Well, I think all of this—. The Government's only been in position for a very few days in the United Kingdom, and they are working through things. We are looking at a date in a few weeks' time, when I'm sure some of those issues that you've pointed out—what is the relationship between the council of the nations and regions and the inter-governmental relations review, how will they pleat together—. Because, obviously, we don't want to duplicate unnecessarily, but there are different players in the different groups. So, clearly, there will need to be a conversation around that.

And finally, Alun Davies.

I'm grateful to you, Deputy Presiding Officer. First Minister, I also welcome the change in tone that we've seen over the last few months. It's a really refreshing breath of fresh air to see Ministers in London who actually seek out and want to engage with Ministers here in Cardiff and elsewhere. There are two areas of policy that I would like to see us focus upon and to debate further. First of all is the levelling-up agenda that was pursued, somewhat haphazardly, by previous Conservative Governments. Now, we know that that was targeted at constituencies where they hoped to win in the last general election, and we know that it was targeted away from people who were living in poverty. It is important and several organisations have contacted me in Blaenau Gwent who want to see a regional policy pursued by the countries of the United Kingdom. The previous policies were all delivered here, of course, in Cardiff Bay, and were determined by the Welsh Government. So, I'd like to understand how you intend pursuing this.

And the second issue is that of the overall funding framework. It is important that Wales is funded on the basis of need, and not simply on the basis of population. We've seen the UK Government—

You need to conclude now, Alun.

—change the basis of the funding formula for Northern Ireland. And if it's good enough for Northern Ireland, it's good enough for Wales.

Thanks very much, Alun. You're quite right—I think the major difference when the money came via the European Union is there were some objective criteria for it, there was a basis on which money was distributed, and that was very much done on the basis of need. Of course, you're quite right, I think it was naked political manipulation in terms of how the money for the levelling-up fund was redistributed, and, of course, the shared prosperity fund just bypassed the Welsh Ministers, and that's not a good way for us to make sure that we're using public money in the best way possible.

But I do think we have to recognise that we are keen to see some reform. We've always said that we're interested in seeing a financial settlement that is on the basis of relative need, and that's set out in our 'Reforming the Union'. That reform will, however, need to be agreed by all four nations and set within a new fiscal agreement, and I think it makes sense for that to be overseen and operated by a body that's independent of the UK Government. Now, we're not there yet, and I think it's a discussion that we need to continue to have, but our priority in the near term is to ensure the current funding formula delivers for Wales, and we'll continue to make the case for that. And it's also worth noting that the Independent Commission on the Constitutional Future of Wales, in its final report, highlighted that growing case for a review of the funding of the devolved Governments to be led jointly by the UK and devolved Governments. I think, just in terms of Barnett, we've just got to be very careful that whatever happens we mustn't see any funding that comes to Wales be reduced. 

I thank the First Minister. 

Item 4 today is a statement by the Minister for Children and Social Care: the national framework for the commissioning of care and support in Wales. And I call on the Minister to make the statement—Dawn Bowden.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Now, as Minister for Children and Social Care, it's a great responsibility and an honour to represent and champion the sector within Government. Last week, the Prif Weinidog announced priorities shaped by the people of Wales, and she made it clear that improving access to social care is a major part of this Government’s priorities to provide iechyd da, good health. A lot has already been done to improve access to social care. We launched the national office for care and support and the first social care workforce partnership in the UK. We are making great progress transforming children’s services and introduced the groundbreaking social care Bill.

Now, over my time as Minister with responsibility for social care, I've had the privilege and the opportunity to visit services delivering real change. I've witnessed examples of progressive practice that are championing good outcomes for the people of Wales. I've also seen first-hand the talented and tireless social care workforce who are the beating heart of the system in Wales. They, and the citizens in need of care and support, provide me with the motivation to move forward to deliver on this important policy and tackle the challenges that still lie ahead. At the heart of everything we do is the simple but essential ambition to enable people to live their lives to the fullest. This is reflected in the laws and policies that govern us and our statutory partners who deliver to our local populations. 

Since the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014 came into force, we've remained steadfastly committed to achieving its aims to meet the care and support needs of people in Wales. The rebalancing care and support programme recognised that improving the way in which care and support is commissioned is one of the key ways that we can facilitate positive changes to enable the consistent and effective implementation of the Act. By applying the Act’s principles to commissioning, the national framework paves the way for a simpler system, in which the provision of care and support can be rebalanced to meet the needs of people in Wales. And that's why we've developed and brought into force on 1 September a new code of practice that establishes a national framework for commissioning care and support. The framework puts in place national principles and standards to guide and align commissioning practices to the aims of the Act. It aims to reduce complexity and drive consistency of approach and ultimately improve outcomes.

The framework will move commissioning practices away from price-driven contracts towards a system in which the principal driver for services is quality and social value. We will have a clear focus on delivering the personal and individual outcomes that matter to people, rather than taking a task-based approach. This framework will ensure that individuals are at the centre of planning the care and support services that they receive, and that those services are available. We must also create a system in which social care provision is sustainable and effectively managed to meet the current and future needs of our people. 

So, what does improving access to social care mean and how will the national framework contribute to the delivery of this priority aim? It means that people all across Wales will be able to exercise their right to seek and to be provided with the care and support services that meet their individual needs and help them to achieve their desired outcomes and to live their lives to the full. The principle of what matters to individuals is embedded in the code’s principles and standards and, combined with its provisions relating to people’s rights, will help facilitate effective and efficient access to services.

There are specific provisions within the standards that require the commissioning of care and support services to be co-produced with individuals in need of care and support, with their voice and control central. This is a central principle of the Act, but the specific application to commissioning should facilitate positive changes to ensure timely and easy access to services. Local authorities, health boards and NHS trusts will be enabled to effectively plan and ensure that the full range of care and support services that are required by, and matter to, individuals in their areas are sufficiently available to everyone who needs them at the time they are needed.

It’s clear that the national framework will play a pivotal role in how we will deliver this Government’s renewed commitment to improve access to social care, which contributes significantly to our overall endeavour to provide iechyd da, good health. We will drive this transformation through strong leadership at all levels, so that relationships, fair work and value is central to commissioning care and support.

The National Office for Care and Support, which came into place in April 2024, will play a key role in supporting partners to implement the national framework to realise our joint aims and ambitions. We’ve already started delivering a package of support to help partners understand and implement the national framework. The national office, in partnership with the national commissioning board, delivered nine awareness-raising sessions, attended by over 450 stakeholders from across the sector. This has provided invaluable information to inform the support that the national office will provide to partners to implement the national framework. Building on this, we will be delivering further events across Wales this autumn.

The national office has also launched a toolkit of resources to support commissioners to work in line with the principles and standards in the national framework. This toolkit is publicly available and hosted on the Social Care Wales communities platform. As well as supporting implementation of the framework, the national office is developing, through ongoing dialogue with commissioners and the wider sector, a mechanism for monitoring the progress of implementation. This process will also inform the biannual review and revision of the national framework to ensure that it remains current whilst aligned to the aspirations of the Act. This clearly fits our renewed focus on delivery, accountability and improved productivity.

In line with this approach, I will keep Members updated on the progress of the implementation of the national framework. I look forward to sharing the positive changes it is making to social care in Wales and how it is helping to achieve the Government’s ambition of improving access to social care. Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you for your statement, Minister. This new code is an extremely welcome step in ensuring that we have a uniform approach to care commissioning across the board, regardless of where you live or who provides your care. Minister, while I welcome the introduction of the national framework, I do have a few questions on how it will impact day-to-day, front-line services.

How will the Minister ensure that the welcome move away from price-driven contracts will not have a detrimental impact on local authority and local health board budgets? You state that commissioners will be able to effectively plan and ensure that the full range of care and support is available to everyone who needs them at the time they are needed. However, unless we address the bigger barrier to care provision, namely a well-resourced and valued workforce, this is not achievable. Minister, how will the new framework address workforce shortages and enable long-term workforce planning?

Aside from the challenging workforce and budgetary issues, we also have to address other challenges facing care and support commissioners, namely enhanced training and data collection. Minister, what training and support is being provided to those who will commission care and support to ensure that they meet and exceed the standards expected by the new framework?

And finally, Minister, on the subject of data collection, without proper data, how can commissioners be expected to understand the care needs of their area and their ability to provide for those needs? The framework will require commissioners to encourage providers to complete the Social Care Wales workforce data collection. Minister, surely this should be compulsory as a bare minimum. We need to thoroughly understand the skills of the workforce if we are to have any hope of addressing skills shortages. How will we know whether we need more Welsh-speaking carers if we don't know the skills of the existing workforce? Minister, do you have any plans to increase the data collection requirements of the code?

Thank you again for your statement and I look forward to monitoring its implementation and delivery across Wales. Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch yn fawr, Altaf, and thank you for those comments and questions, and for your general welcome of the framework. As I said, we are establishing this to enable the framework to apply equally to the commissioning of care by both local authorities and health boards and trusts. So, it's a new development in that respect, because it's now, for the first time, putting a requirement on health boards and trusts as well. And that instruction has been issued to the health boards and the trusts. 

In terms of the various elements or the various points that you've raised, on the impact on budgets, this is actually central to what we're trying to achieve here. There is such an inconsistency across Wales about how much care costs, depending on where you live, and what the rates are set at, and so on, and that's partly because there is no clear and consistent definition of what commissioners should be looking for. So, this national framework will set that out very clearly, will set out what the requirements are for commissioners, what they are to be looking for in the provision of care, whether it is cost, whether it is outcome, whether it is the staff workforce and whether it is the skills and sufficiency that they need. So, part of the framework will actually require all the component partners—local authorities, health boards, and so on—to develop a sufficiency plan that will identify the skills required to enable them to deliver what we are seeking them to deliver.

I don't underestimate for one moment the enormous challenge that that presents, because I think, in the question that Jane Dodds raised earlier on to the First Minister about the social care workforce, we know that there are huge challenges in that area, but we are doing an enormous amount of work to try to address the gaps, the vacancies, the recruitment and the retention, the career pathways and to develop the professionalisation of the social care workforce, so that it becomes an attractive career for somebody to be involved in. 

In terms of the training that you believe that commissioners will need, I absolutely agree with you. If we are going to do this effectively and consistently across Wales, everybody needs to know what they're doing and everybody has to be singing from the same hymn sheet, and I hope that's what the framework will provide. As I said in my statement, we have already delivered a number of training sessions for commissioners, stakeholders. Over 450 people have already attended those sessions. And we are providing a toolkit for commissioners to use, so that they have something that can guide them through. The national office that we've established for care will be the key resource and support that will be available to commissioners to ensure that they have somewhere that they can go to, to make sure that what they're doing is what is expected in the framework and is actually delivering the outcomes that we need.

Thank you to the Minister for the statement. The statement and the development of this framework is a great step towards creating a national care service, and it's therefore to be welcomed. It's work, of course, that commenced following action on Plaid Cymru policy in the co-operation agreement—another sign that positive statements coming out of this Government come about as a result of following the positive lead of Plaid Cymru. On paper, of course, the core principles and standards set out in this framework are ones that we support, and it's about time that we see this happening.

However, as the responses to the consultation clearly reflect, there remains widespread concern that the principles and standards outlined in this framework, as worthy as they are, will be unachievable in practical terms. And they're right to be concerned. Without a decisive rejection of austerity and sustained increases in public spending, local authorities, who will be primarily responsible for implementing this framework, are hurtling headlong into an existential crisis. This year, they're having to contend with a 3.8 per cent increase in spending pressures compared with a mere 0.3 per cent rise in funding. By 2027, this discrepancy is projected to leave a shortfall across Wales of around £0.75 billion.

The implications for Wales of Labour's austerity agenda, therefore, are dire. Non-ring-fenced areas of the Welsh budget, which include social care, are now facing a real-terms reduction of £683 million over the next five years. When I raised this stark reality with the then health Minister at the end of the last term, I received a flippant response about taxes that was completely at odds with the social democratic values on which the Labour Party is supposed to be based. Since then, she's refused to challenge the unjust Barnett formula that is at the heart of Wales's systematic underfunding by Westminster, and has admitted that she has as much influence over the UK Prime Minister's decision making as she has over Donald Trump. Contrary to the promises made over the summer, therefore, this is a Government that is sticking its fingers in its ears rather than listening to the warnings of public service providers that are being pushed to the brink.

It's up to the Cabinet Secretary, therefore, to explain to the local authorities, who will be expected to implement this framework, how they can possibly manage to do more with less. So, can the Minister guarantee that these steps will work without a funding uplift to properly support our social care workforce? What influence, if any, does this Minister or the Government have on the UK Government to ensure proper and improved funding in order to fully deliver this framework successfully?

Can I thank you, Mabon, for those points and for your general welcome for the commissioning framework? I think we are in the same place in terms of what we're seeking to achieve on all of this. I'm not going to deal with the issues that are, quite rightly, for the First Minister, but your overall comments and points about funding and budgets, I fully understand, and we have those very robust discussions in Cabinet, as you would expect. We will soon be having the next budget round, where we will all be making our bids for where we think money for the next financial round should be going.

But I think it's important to say—in part, I answered this when I responded to Altaf—that a lot of this is not about asking local authorities to do more, it's not about asking health boards to do more, it's about asking them to do it differently. It's about looking—. We're very clear about what the rebalancing of care programme was all about. I'll just repeat it: it's about moving away from complexity towards simplicity; it's about moving away from price towards social value and quality; and it's about moving away from reactive commissioning and towards managing the market. It is providing a framework for the commissioning of those services that can produce greater value for money and greater consistency. Again, in my response to Altaf, I made the point that, depending on where you live in Wales, the cost of care is very different.

What this is aiming to do is to bring into place a consistency, so that everybody is doing the same. That doesn't mean, necessarily, that all charges will be the same and that care home fees, for instance, will be the same wherever they are. But the basic principles of how care is commissioned, which are quite different depending on what part of Wales you're in at the moment, will move us towards a much more consistent approach, which we hope will lead to improved quality and improved outcomes for individuals. That has got to be key. It is not just about price; it is about outcomes. And it's about a more effective partnership working between the local authorities and between the health boards.

What I would say as well is that there are significant roles for other partners in terms of delivering this. We look at the role of regional partnership boards, for instance. We were talking about funding pressures, but on significant aspects of social care and the delivery of social care, regional partnership boards have the ability to pool funding—the £145 million-worth of funding that the Welsh Government has given to regional partnership boards to do this very work. It is about integrating our social care system, it's about bringing consistency in our social care system, and it's about removing complexity to make sure that we get the outcomes that we want. And key to all of that is involving the individuals in the planning of their care so that their voice is central to everything that we are looking to do.

None of this is easy. Nothing is ever easy. Because if things were easy, Mabon, we'd have all done it by now. So, what we are looking to do is to rebalance, as I've said. We will have a monitoring and reviewing process, and we will look to review this every two years with a view to refreshing it and improving in areas where we think it needs improving. But there will be constant monitoring and review of the process as we move forward.

I really welcome the report that the Minister has given today. I think that the move towards a national framework, following the setting up of the national office, is a very positive step forward, and I'm very pleased that the Minister is going to keep us updated in the Chamber on the progress.

But one of the big issues that is facing the social care workforce, which has already been raised in the Chamber today, is the issue of pay. It's so important that social care workers' pay reflects the value of the work that they do. It's absolutely great that the Government has been able to bring in the real living wage, but as we know, there are challenges, in particular when you match similar jobs in the NHS and the social care service. It does make it difficult to retain social care workers in the social care service when they can get paid a lot more if they do the same job in the NHS. So, there are lots of issues like that to look at.

I wondered if the Minister could tell us how she plans to use the framework to make sure that the voices of social care workers are heard and that they're able to have their input into what I think is a huge step forward. Would she agree that the national office and the national framework are the building blocks towards a national care service?

Can I thank Julie Morgan for those points and those questions? And I also thank you, Julie, for the work that you did leading up to the formation and drafting of the national framework. I know that you were very heavily involved in that before I became Minister, so thank you for the work that you did on that.

What I would say, in terms of where we're at now, is I think all of us—. It's been raised several times and we all understand absolutely the challenges of the social care workforce, and in particular the very point that you were raising about the parity of esteem with the NHS. We know that healthcare assistants in the NHS, for instance, do very similar work to social care workers, and yet their rates of pay and their conditions are very different. And it's because they work in different Government structures—one in the NHS, one in local authorities.

Under standard 2 of the framework, there is going to be a requirement to secure sufficient skills, resources and capacity from the local authority and the health board. What that’s going to require is that all of the statutory partners have got to balance the elements of the commissioning cycle, to ensure that they have sufficient skills and capacity to co-design, plan, deliver, secure the services that we are asking them to commission. In order to do that, part of what they are going to have to look at is what they are paying staff. If they have to secure sufficiency of skills, then there will be an element of that that will require them to pay the rate that will require the skills that they need.

What I would say is that that work is quite well progressed through the social care fair work forum. We work very closely with trade union partners in that forum, as you know, and there is an awful lot of work still going on. The real living wage you have already identified. We are now into the third year of the real living wage. That was something that was prioritised initially, and it hasn’t ended there. That was the first step. We are now looking at the other areas—terms and conditions of service—and how some of those things can be improved: the career pathways for people, so that it becomes an attractive career option and gives people the opportunity to move on to different areas; potential pathways into social work, with our social work bursary; and so on.

I think that, fundamentally, we know that we have a significant issue with the social care workforce that we cannot let up on, in terms of moving to try to resolve it. I think that it is absolutely right that we have the parity of esteem with the NHS. This is a professional workforce looking after some of the most vulnerable people in our society, and we should absolutely value that. So, that is work that is ongoing. It isn’t finished, and we won’t be finished with that until we actually achieve what we need to achieve for that very valuable workforce.

Good afternoon, Cabinet Secretary. I really do welcome this. It’s a great step forward, but I have just got a couple of points, really, on pace. We continue to wait for this. The complexity in my mind is about the reorganisation and the new culture that’s needed. People in our care sector and our health sector are really overwhelmed at the moment, and to pile on them, yet again, another change is a real challenge. So, I am just wondering how the Welsh Government is going to do that, particularly at pace.

The second issue is one that I raised with the First Minister this afternoon, which is around the social care sector in rural areas. It is very challenging for us, once again, to recruit and retain carers within rural areas. I was talking to a lady whose husband needs ongoing care. They had to bring in a carer from Worcester on an ongoing basis in order to support him. That is just not appropriate and not good value for money. So, please could you just outline the pace and the scale, and also how we are going to get our carers into rural areas and build that capacity in those areas where it’s really difficult to recruit and retain? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thank you for that, Jane, and I absolutely hear your challenge about the change of pace. What I hope is that this won't be a huge change for people who are involved in the commissioning of services. What it is doing is introducing consistency and putting it onto a statutory footing, so that there is less leeway to do things a bit differently, so that we have a very consistent approach. If everybody is working to that same consistent approach, one of the objectives of this, very clearly, is that we should see cost savings through the process. Because as I said in the answer that I gave to Mabon earlier on, we are very well aware of the pressures, particularly on local authorities, and we need to deliver this to help address some of those issues as well.

I know that, in some regional partnership board areas, some local authorities and some health boards are further advanced in terms of their capacity to be able to deal with this than others, but they can all move very quickly to the new framework and what the requirements are of the new framework. As I said, we have run a series of workshops and training sessions with commissioners over the summer. We've got another round of training available to them in the autumn. There will be a toolkit available, and they will be able to access the national care office for support.

The challenge on social care in rural areas is a real one, and it would be foolish of me to stand here and say that I have all the answers for that, because, again, as I said in a previous response, if we had the answers for everything, we would have done it all by now. But even though things are difficult, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't be looking at it and trying to address it. The answer—. The problem, sorry—before we get to the answer, let's look at the problem—is almost self-evident, isn't it, in rural areas, because there are fewer people in rural areas to do all sorts of work. Getting people into social care in areas where we have very dense populations is difficult, so getting it in an area that's sparsely populated is even more difficult. 

I'm more than happy to have a conversation with you outside of this discussion this afternoon, to see how we could perhaps look at some of the ideas for doing this, because I certainly don't have all the answers. The social care fair work forum, I'm sure, don't have all the answers, and they would like to have some help and support with that. But it is on our radar. We understand the challenges. All the things I said in response to Julie Morgan equally apply to trying to recruit social care workers in rural areas, but I do understand the added difficulty of having fewer people to draw on in the population. But I'm more than happy to have a further conversation with you about that.

And finally, Rhys ab Owen.

Diolch yn fawr, Weinidog. Do you see this as a stepping stone to a national care service? If so, when? Because you'll be well aware that individuals and families are being crippled by care costs and they're often not receiving the care that they should be receiving, that they need be receiving. Following on from the points by Altaf and Mabon, and your response, will you give a guarantee that the national office will receive the adequate resource it needs to provide effective training? And thirdly, with regard to data, data is very important, but data collection, especially sensitive data collection, is costly and challenging. We've seen, from the Electoral Commission's breach this year, what happens when data is managed on a very tight budget. Can you give an assurance today that social care data of very vulnerable individuals, families and cases will be kept secure? Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you for that series of questions. There are a couple of things. Sorry, Altaf, you did raise the issue of data earlier on, so I'll deal with it now in response to Rhys ab Owen. Data collection, absolutely, is vitally important, because it provides the baseline from which we work. I'm going to be making a further announcement next week, I think, about the introduction of the single unified safeguarding review and all the work that we've had to do on that with the Information Commissioner's Office to ensure that data can be shared in a safe way, where people's confidentiality is respected, and so on. So, we've done an awful lot of work on that, and we've got some very clear guidance from the Information Commissioner's Office about how we do that, and how we ensure that that is secure. I'll be saying a little bit more about that when I make that statement.

The national office is absolutely essential to the delivery of the national care service. It was one of the key planks of the co-operation agreement with Plaid Cymru, and I'm very grateful to Plaid Cymru colleagues for the point that we got to. I think, Siân, it was you that was involved with this, or was it Cefin? It was you. I was in a different ministerial portfolio at that time. In establishing that, we recognised the severe financial challenges that we're faced with in moving quickly to the establishment of a national care service. So, we moved towards the delivery of it in phases, and the first phase is what we're in now, and part of that phase 1 is that we're going to be commissioning research around how we can get to where we need to be, what the costs involved might be, how we would set fees, or how we move from a fee-setting service to a non-fee-setting service, because we've made a very clear statement that we are looking for a national care service that is free at the point of need.

Now, I did have a meeting with Stephen Kinnock over the summer, who's the UK Government Minister for social care, and he was very interested, because the UK Government wants to move towards the establishment of a national care service as well, and I think this is one of the examples of where we can do things across the nations because we're well advanced on that path. And so they want to learn from us about what we've established, what we've found, the way that we want to take it forward, so that they can learn from that.

So, from my point of view it is absolutely vital that the national care office is resourced adequately, because it has to drive all of these changes that we know are absolutely necessary to deliver that priority of accessing social care. So, I can give that assurance. What I can't tell you absolutely is when the national care service will be delivered, but in the agreement with Plaid Cymru we were working on a 10-year programme, so at the moment that's still the kind of timescale that we're working towards, if that helps.

I thank the Minister. 

Item 5 today is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales on a new partnership to transform our railways. I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Ken Skates.

Dirprwy Lywydd, two Labour Governments working in partnership, in Wales and in Westminster, is already making a difference. Take the passenger services Bill that was introduced by the UK Government in July, just weeks after the general election. This legislative change immediately delivers on one of Welsh Government’s long-standing asks: to call time on private sector franchises and bring rail services back into the public realm.

We’ve long argued that the railway is a fundamental public service, and that its rightful place is in the public sector rather than in the hands of shareholders and private investors. And that isn’t an ideological point, it’s about what works.

Through Transport for Wales, we are already demonstrating the benefits of a publicly owned rail operator that is solely focused on delivering for the people, businesses and communities it serves. Yes, it’s been tough at times for passengers in Wales over the past few years. We must have the humility to recognise that. Change is not easy, it doesn’t happen overnight. But TfW are now consistently one of the most reliable operators in Wales. They’ve achieved the biggest improvement in punctuality of any rail operator across Britain for the last quarter, and are delivering an 80 per cent increase in the number of rail carriages serving passengers on the TfW network.

Now, voices in this Chamber have been quick to criticise TfW, and this Welsh Government, when rail performance has been poor, and of course that is the job of the opposition. But I do hope that Members across this Chamber will recognise the magnitude of what TfW has delivered over the course of this year, and what it means in terms of the day-to-day experience of passengers: a better, more reliable service; scaling up services, rather than the managed decline we saw under the Tories; and near the top of the pack, not the bottom of the pile, when it comes to the age profile of our rail fleet.

The introduction of the buses Bill next year will reform the way the local bus service networks are planned and delivered for the benefit of people across Wales. This, alongside the passenger services Bill, will make it easier to integrate rail and bus services and deliver on our vision of one network, one timetable, one ticket. It also represents an early proof-point in the new partnership that we’ve formed with the UK Labour Government to transform our railways, and I look forward to hearing the views of Members of this Senedd when we debate legislative consent for this change, which I of course support.

Looking beyond that, Members will be aware that the UK Government has announced its intention to introduce the rail reform Bill next year. I see this as a huge opportunity. When I met with the new UK rail Minister, Lord Hendy, over the summer, we committed to working in partnership to deliver a better railway for Wales. Part of that is about delivering a fundamental reform of Wales’s rail operating model. It is the most complex of all UK nations. 

This includes establishing an empowered Wales and borders business unit within Great British Railways—a GBR Cymru that delivers against Welsh priorities and is properly accountable to Welsh Ministers and to this Senedd. We also wish to see Wales given a real voice on services operating to and from Wales, which is particularly relevant at a time when passengers in north Wales are being so badly let down in terms of those vital services to and from London. And while there is much detailed work to do on developing the GBR Cymru proposition, I am delighted that the UK Government has already committed to a statutory role for Welsh Ministers on managing, planning and developing the rail industry in Wales.

Dirprwy Lywydd, that really does signal a step change from our current position. It gives the lie to the claims we’ve heard again and again from the opposition benches that, somehow, Labour at the UK level isn’t delivering for Wales. The biggest structural reform of the industry in Wales for a generation is now within reach, and just compare that to life under the previous administration at Westminster, who lumped Wales in with the western region and directed Network Rail to deliver a managed decline of our rail assets here in Wales.

And to its great credit, the industry isn’t sitting on its hands and waiting for the political process to run its course. Cyfuno, which brings together TfW and Network Rail, has already made great progress in terms of delivering efficiencies, identifying better ways of working and opportunities for collaboration, and it provides an obvious vehicle for the detailed work that must take place to shape GBR Cymru at an industrial level.

Industry collaboration has also been key in terms of the announcement I made just last month that we now have firm plans in place to deliver a massive increase in services along the north Wales coast. A 50 per cent increase in Transport for Wales services, enabled by a series of changes to be delivered by Network Rail, will also improve safety within communities, and was announced within months of the general election—Labour in Wales and Labour in Westminster, working together to deliver a transformational increase in connectivity in north Wales. Contrast that with the so-called 'cast-iron guarantees' we saw from the previous administration, which, as we saw in the letter that emerged during the general election, were little more than empty promises, with no funding or formal remit underpinning them.

I’m under no illusion in terms of the scale of the challenges ahead. On the core Valleys lines transformation in particular, we are at a critical stage of delivery. We’ve now been running an uplifted timetable for three months, enabled by the completion of major infrastructure upgrades between Cardiff Queen Street, Treherbert, Aberdare and Merthyr. I know it's incredibly frustrating for passengers and communities when major infrastructure projects disrupt their daily lives, routines and travel patterns—believe me, I really do empathise and I’m incredibly grateful to people for bearing with us—but the prize really will be worth it. The brand-new electric trains will start to enter service in the Valleys later this year, and people will begin to see real light at the end of the tunnel when it comes to this game-changing project for the south Wales Valleys.

During the National Eisteddfod, attended by people from right across Wales, we had a preview of the difference metro will make for our communities. This was such a powerful reminder of the ability of transport projects to transform people’s lives.

Llywydd, we know that the UK Government has been left with a poisonous economic legacy, and that the money simply isn’t there to deliver all of the changes that we’d like to see right across our transport network. But at the same time, I absolutely recognise that people and communities across Wales, and their representatives in this Senedd, are anxious to see their areas benefit from the kind of transformational change being delivered by this Welsh Government on the core Valleys lines. Personally, I’m particularly keen to see progress on the rail priorities identified by Lord Burns in south-east Wales and in north Wales, including kick-starting plans for a metro-style service on the borderlands line.

Through the Wales rail board, my officials are now working at pace with their counterparts at the Department for Transport to deliver on our general election manifesto commitment to create a jointly agreed enhancements pipeline for Wales. A collaborative approach on enhancements, underpinned by meaningful rail reform that will deliver huge benefits for passengers—this is a new partnership to transform our railways. Diolch. 

I have a number of speakers on this item. 

Therefore, please, everybody keep to their time so I can call as many as possible. Natasha Asghar.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for this afternoon's statement. Since taking on this role, I sincerely do admire your passion and also enthusiasm for this particular position.

Now, the statement paints a rather rosy picture of Transport for Wales and the Welsh Government's performance, but in reality, for me, it couldn't be further from the truth. As you said, Cabinet Secretary, the UK Government is pushing ahead with plans to nationalise the railways in England. Clearly, the new Labour UK Government didn't look across the border to see how nationalised rail is working here in Wales, because I imagine if they had, they'd sooner change their minds. Under Labour's watch here in Wales, our residents are not, sadly, receiving the service they deserve when it comes to rail and, as I'm sure many Members across the Chamber can indeed attest to, having seen the level of e-mails they get in their inboxes.

In your statement, Cabinet Secretary, you sing Transport for Wales's praises, saying the organisation is

'already demonstrating the benefits of a publicly owned rail operator',

and it did hit home with me, Cabinet Secretary, because I did feel—were we in fact talking about the same Transport for Wales? Because the one I know lost some £300 million last year, has been bailed out to the tune of £125 million, has coughed up £1.8 million in delay repay compensation in just one year, and spent nearly £100,000 a month in just software alone, with taxpayers footing the bill for all of this.

Cabinet Secretary, you describe Transport for Wales as, and I quote,

'the most reliable operator in Wales',

yet, sadly, the feeling on the ground paints a completely different picture. A YouGov poll found that, out of 1,000 people surveyed, 45 per cent of them believed the services provided by Transport for Wales were indeed unreliable.

Cabinet Secretary, you talk about delivering a

'one network, one timetable, one ticket'

system. Over the years, I have constantly called for an-all Wales travel card to be rolled out, in a bid to make using public transport more accessible. My suggestion received a very warm response from the then First Minister, Mark Drakeford, and I'm genuinely glad to see the premise of that has been pushed forward by the Welsh Government now.

Cabinet Secretary, could you please briefly touch upon how you will be able to use the one-ticket system under your plans, going forward? I would also be interested in receiving an update on the success of the recently rolled out tap on, tap off technology between Cardiff Central, Newport, Pontyclun and stations up to Ebbw Vale. An explanation of how exactly you envisage Welsh Ministers feeding into GBR Cymru would also be greatly appreciated, Cabinet Secretary. And I'm also curious to know if Welsh taxpayers will be required to meet some of the costs in this new body.

To deliver an effective railway service, we need to have better infrastructure—it's a song that many of us sing from around the Chamber—but does this new partnership with Labour in Westminster mean we will now see vital projects, like Cardiff parkway and a major event stabling line delivered? You talk about Labour delivering for Wales, but that simply isn't the case, is it, Cabinet Secretary? Labour has overseen record NHS waiting times, with our health service in crisis, poor education standards, and now snatching away £110 million from our pensioners' pockets here in Wales. Is this really what Labour delivering looks like, Cabinet Secretary, for the people of Wales?

In your statement, you say both Labour Governments, here in Wales and also Westminster, will

'deliver a transformational increase in connectivity in north Wales.'

So, can you please specifically outline what sort of transformation residents can indeed see who live in north Wales? Also, we know too well that north Wales can be seen as short-changed when compared to south Wales—as a resident of south-east Wales, I should declare that as indeed my patch—will you therefore commit, Cabinet Secretary, to ending the discrepancy, going forward, between the north and the south?

Cabinet Secretary, can I also get a commitment from you that you will keep the Senedd updated to these developments, going forward? Thank you very much for your statement.

Well, can I thank Natasha Asghar for her contribution today and for her questions? Many of those questions are incredibly important, I think—her questions about the future of Great British Railways and Welsh Government's role in ensuring that we get the enhancements that Welsh communities expect and rightly deserve.

I've already had really productive discussions with the rail Minister. One of the advantages of having a former chair of Network Rail as the new rail Minister is that you have one of the most highly respected experts on rail in a key position, and somebody who knows Wales incredibly well. He is very familiar with the work of Lord Burns, for example, and he also penned the 'Union Connectivity Review', which provided some inspirational ideas for how to improve rail services and rail infrastructure right across Wales. Particularly, when I was on the backbenches recently, I took an interest in how it would provide a template for better infrastructure in north Wales, and it really, really is great to see Lord Hendy in that position now in Government.

Now, I'm just going to talk briefly about delivery and performance. In terms of performance, as the First Minister has said, and as the Trefnydd said earlier, Transport for Wales is now the most reliable operator in Wales, ahead of GWR, ahead of Avanti West Coast, ahead of CrossCountry. You only need to look at comparison between TfW services and Avanti, actually, which is not our responsibility, to gauge just how significant the improvements are in Transport for Wales. Seventy-nine per cent punctuality—that's on time to three minute for Transport for Wales; the equivalent statistic for Avanti is just 54 per cent. Avanti has seen 18.1 per cent of their trains cancelled; the equivalent for Transport for Wales is 4.7 per cent. In April, May and June, Transport for Wales achieved the biggest improvement in both punctuality and reliability across Great Britain. The trajectory is up in terms of reliability and punctuality, and that is now showing. There is always a lag with public confidence and satisfaction, but that is now showing, with satisfaction rates rising as well. The only way to reduce the public subsidy for rail services is to increase the farebox, and that is precisely what is happening right now with Transport for Wales services.

And in terms of what we are delivering, well, let's take the trains: £800 million-worth of trains. We inherited one of the oldest fleets in Britain: 270 or so trains we inherited from Arriva Trains Wales. By the end of the delivery programme, we'll have more than 480 trains—a huge, huge uplift, and that will provide more frequent services and higher quality rolling stock for the travelling public.

I think Natasha Asghar made an important point about integrated ticketing. We wish to see integrated ticketing across different forms of public transport. Between what we're doing on rail and with the buses Bill, we will be able to deliver that, and it will also offer us an opportunity to have novel and fairer fare options for the travelling public.

The tap on and tap off service, of course, is the first of its type outside of London, and we're incredibly proud that that is in operation; it's helping to drive down the amount of journeys that are taken by people without tickets and the efforts of Transport for Wales in, as I said just earlier, raising the farebox are to be admired and congratulated, I believe.

In terms of what will be delivered for north Wales as a result of the announcement recently, well, I can confirm that there will be 50 per cent more train services from 2026. That is a huge uplift for north Wales.