Y Cyfarfod Llawn
Plenary
21/05/2024Cynnwys
Contents
Yn y fersiwn ddwyieithog, mae’r golofn chwith yn cynnwys yr iaith a lefarwyd yn y cyfarfod. Mae’r golofn dde yn cynnwys cyfieithiad o’r areithiau hynny.
In the bilingual version, the left-hand column includes the language used during the meeting. The right-hand column includes a translation of those speeches.
Cyfarfu'r Senedd yn y Siambr a thrwy gynhadledd fideo am 13:30 gyda'r Llywydd (Elin Jones) yn y Gadair.
The Senedd met in the Chamber and by video-conference at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.
Prynhawn da. Yr eitem gyntaf y prynhawn yma fydd yr enwebiadau ar gyfer Cadeirydd pwyllgor. Felly, dwi nawr yn gwahodd enwebiadau, o dan Reol Sefydlog 17.2F, i ethol Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Deddfwriaeth, Cyfiawnder a'r Cyfansoddiad a ddyrannwyd i'r grŵp Llafur. Dim ond aelod o'r grŵp gwleidyddol y dyrannwyd y pwyllgor hwnnw iddo a all gael ei enwebu'n Gadeirydd, a dim ond aelod o'r un grŵp plaid sy'n cael cynnig yr enwebiad. Pan fo gan grŵp plaid fwy nag 20 aelod, mae'n rhaid i'r enwebiad gael ei eilio gan aelod arall o'r un grŵp. Os bydd unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu enwebiad, neu os ceir dau enwebiad neu fwy ar gyfer yr un pwyllgor, bydd yna bleidlais gyfrinachol yn cael ei chynnal, a byddaf i'n parhau gyda'r enwebiadau. Felly, dwi'n gwahodd enwebiadau gan y grŵp Llafur. Oes yna enwebiad? Jack Sargeant.
Good afternoon. The first item this afternoon will be nominations for a committee Chair. I now invite nominations, under Standing Order 17.2F, for the election of the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, which has been allocated to the Labour group. Only a member of the political group that has been allocated that committee may be nominated as Chair, and only a member of the same political group may make the nomination. When a party group has more than 20 members, the nomination must be seconded by another member of the same group. If any Member objects to a nomination, or if there are two or more nominations for the same committee role, there will be a secret ballot held, and I will continue with the nominations. So, I invite nominations from the Labour group. Is there a nomination? Jack Sargeant.
Diolch, Llywydd. Mike Hedges.
Diolch, Llywydd. Mike Hedges.
Oes aelod o'r un grŵp yn eilio Mike Hedges? Oes, mae Hefin David yn eilio. A oes rhagor o enwebiadau?
Is there a member of the same group seconding that nomination? Yes, Hefin David has seconded that nomination. Are there any further nominations?
Alun Davies.
Alun Davies.
Oes, mae Alun Davies wedi'i enwebu. A oes yna eilydd i'r enwebiad yna? Oes, mae Mark Drakeford yn eilio'r enwebiad yna. Oes yna enwebiad arall o fewn y grŵp Llafur? Na, does yna ddim enwebiad arall. Felly, mae yna ddau Aelod wedi eu henwebu, sef Alun Davies a Mike Hedges. Gan fod yr enwebiadau felly wedi eu cyfeirio ar gyfer pleidlais gyfrinachol, yn unol â'r Rheolau Sefydlog, rwy'n hysbysu'r Aelodau y bydd y bleidlais gyfrinachol yn cael ei chynnal yn ystafell briffio 13 yn y Senedd, a bydd yr Aelodau yn derbyn e-bost yn fuan i'w hysbysu bod pleidleisio wedi agor, neu yn agor, am 2 o'r gloch, a bydd y pleidleisio'n dod i ben am 4 o'r gloch. Y clerc fydd yn gyfrifol am oruchwylio'r broses bleidleisio a'r broses o gyfri'r pleidleisiau. Ar ôl y bleidlais gyfrinachol, byddaf i'n cyhoeddi'r canlyniad ar ddiwedd y Cyfarfod Llawn yma heddiw.
Alun Davies is nominated. Is there a seconder for that nomination? There is—Mark Drakeford seconds that nomination. Are there any further nominations within the Labour group? No, there are no further nominations. So, two Members have been nominated—Alun Davies and Mike Hedges. As the nominations have been referred to secret ballot, in accordance with Standing Orders, I inform Members that the secret ballot will be held in briefing room 13 in the Senedd, and Members will receive an e-mail soon to inform them that voting has opened, or is to open, at 2 o'clock, and voting will conclude at 4 o'clock. The clerk will be responsible for overseeing the voting process and the counting. Following the secret ballot, I will announce the result at the end of Plenary today.
Felly, yr eitem nesaf ar yr agenda fydd y cwestiynau i'r Prif Weinidog. Mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf y prynhawn yma gan Darren Millar.
So, the next item on the agenda is questions to the First Minister, and the first question this afternoon is from Darren Millar.
1. Pa gamau gweithredu y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i wella gwasanaethau gofal iechyd i breswylwyr yng Nghonwy a Sir Ddinbych? OQ61178
1. What action is the Welsh Government taking to improve healthcare services for residents in Conwy and Denbighshire? OQ61178
Thank you for the question. Llywydd, as this is the first health question I'll answer, and the first opportunity to do so on the record following yesterday's infected blood scandal, can I just place on record my own direct response, as this will definitely affect constituents not just in Conwy and Denbighshire, but across the country? The extraordinary scale of the hurt and the cover-up that the infected blood inquiry report revealed was truly shocking. It's a decades-long cover-up that has affected Governments of all shades, and our national health service, and every Member in this Chamber will have constituents affected.
I will come to the question.
I, in particular, want to pay tribute to those who campaigned on this issue, across parties, and not just Julie Morgan in different Parliaments, but the people directly affected themselves, and to give a direct and unequivocal apology on behalf of the Welsh Government, and to indicate that a debate will take place on 4 June.
Directly on other services in Conwy and Denbighshire, we will work closely with the health board to improve access to safe and timely care and to high-quality services.
Diolch am y cwestiwn. Llywydd, gan mai hwn yw'r cwestiwn iechyd cyntaf y gwnaf i ei ateb, a'r cyfle cyntaf i wneud hynny ar y cofnod yn dilyn sgandal gwaed heintiedig ddoe, a gaf i roi fy ymateb uniongyrchol ar gof a chadw, gan y bydd hyn yn sicr yn effeithio ar etholwyr nid yn unig yng Nghonwy a sir Ddinbych, ond ledled y wlad? Roedd graddfa ryfeddol y loes a'r celu a ddatgelwyd gan adroddiad yr ymchwiliad gwaed heintiedig yn wirioneddol frawychus. Mae'n achos o gelu degawdau o hyd sydd wedi effeithio ar Lywodraethau o bob arlliw, a'n gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol, a bydd gan bob Aelod yn y Siambr hon etholwyr yr effeithiwyd arnynt.
Fe wnaf i ddod at y cwestiwn.
Hoffwn, yn arbennig, dalu teyrnged i'r rhai a ymgyrchodd ar y mater hwn, ar draws pleidiau, ac nid yn unig Julie Morgan mewn gwahanol Seneddau, ond y bobl yr effeithiwyd arnyn nhw'n uniongyrchol eu hunain, ac i roi ymddiheuriad uniongyrchol a diamwys ar ran Llywodraeth Cymru, ac i nodi y bydd dadl yn cael ei chynnal ar 4 Mehefin.
Yn uniongyrchol ar wasanaethau eraill yng Nghonwy a sir Ddinbych, byddwn yn gweithio'n agos gyda'r bwrdd iechyd i wella mynediad at ofal diogel a phrydlon ac at wasanaethau o ansawdd uchel.
Thank you for that response—
Diolch am yr ateb yna—
Can I just intervene? That was an inappropriate use of question 1. I would have expected, if the Government was to make a statement, and the First Minister wished to do so, any request to me to make a statement on this very important issue would have been accepted today, and I'm sure the Business Committee would have accepted it in a similar vein. I'll ask Darren Millar to continue with his supplementary question.
A gaf i ymyrryd yn gyflym? Roedd hwnna'n ddefnydd amhriodol o gwestiwn 1. Byddwn wedi disgwyl, pe bai'r Llywodraeth yn mynd i wneud datganiad, a bod y Prif Weinidog yn dymuno gwneud hynny, y byddai unrhyw gais i mi i wneud datganiad ar y mater pwysig iawn hwn wedi cael ei dderbyn heddiw, ac rwy'n siŵr y byddai'r Pwyllgor Busnes wedi ei dderbyn mewn modd tebyg. Gofynnaf i Darren Millar barhau gyda'i gwestiwn atodol.
Thank you, Llywydd. First Minister, healthcare services in Conwy and Denbighshire are not in a good place. We know that the health board in north Wales is in special measures. One of the problems that I have in my own constituency is the problem of the Colwyn Bay West End Medical Centre. It's a managed practice, run directly by the health board, and I receive multiple complaints about the services from that particular surgery each and every week. In fact, 100 per cent of the complaints that I have received about GP services since the start of this year have been about this one individual practice in my constituency. Patients are complaining about not being able to get appointments, not being able to get through on the telephone, not getting answers to e-mails, not getting call-backs that they're promised, not being able to access vaccinations that are available in other surgeries, and not being able to get prescriptions in time and actually running out of the essential medication that they need. It's not good enough. It's putting patients at risk of harm. This health board is in special measures, as I said earlier on, and this practice is run directly by the health board. What action are you and what action is the Welsh Government going to take in order to resolve these problems, so that my constituents get the services they deserve?
Diolch, Llywydd. Prif Weinidog, nid yw gwasanaethau gofal iechyd yng Nghonwy a sir Ddinbych mewn lle da. Rydym ni'n gwybod bod y bwrdd iechyd yn y gogledd mewn mesurau arbennig. Un o'r problemau sydd gen i yn fy etholaeth i yw problem Canolfan Feddygol West End Bae Colwyn. Mae'n bractis a reolir, sy'n cael ei redeg yn uniongyrchol gan y bwrdd iechyd, ac rwy'n derbyn sawl cwyn am y gwasanaethau gan y feddygfa benodol honno bob un wythnos. A dweud y gwir, mae 100 y cant o'r cwynion yr wyf i wedi eu derbyn am wasanaethau meddygon teulu ers dechrau'r flwyddyn hon wedi bod am yr un practis unigol hwn yn fy etholaeth. Mae cleifion yn cwyno am fethu â gallu cael apwyntiadau, methu â chael drwodd ar y ffôn, methu â chael atebion i negeseuon e-bost, methu â chael galwadau yn ôl a addawyd iddyn nhw, methu â chael brechiadau sydd ar gael mewn meddygfeydd eraill, a methu â chael presgripsiynau mewn pryd a rhedeg allan o'r feddyginiaeth hanfodol sydd ei hangen arnyn nhw. Nid yw'n ddigon da. Mae'n rhoi cleifion mewn perygl o niwed. Mae'r bwrdd iechyd hwn mewn mesurau arbennig, fel y dywedais yn gynharach, ac mae'r practis hwn yn cael ei redeg yn uniongyrchol gan y bwrdd iechyd. Pa gamau ydych chi a pha gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn mynd i'w cymryd er mwyn datrys y problemau hyn, fel bod fy etholwyr yn cael y gwasanaethau y maen nhw'n eu haeddu?
Thank you for the question. I'm aware that the West End practice is a merger, I understand, of previous practices that were not able to function successfully. My understanding is that this is a directly managed practice that has been recruiting for new staff to come in, including doctors as well. I'll happily talk both with the Cabinet Secretary, but also with the health board, to ensure there's a direct note for the Member on what is taking place. It may be helpful if not just for the list of issues he's raised now, but to be clear about any particular issues he wants to have raised and to ensure they're covered in a response from the health board, because I do take seriously, in this or any other practice, that residents are able to access high-quality care and services, and, where that is not the case, that we're aware of it so we can do something about it. I'm sure the Member will take up opportunities to speak directly to the health board themselves, as well as those directly running the practice.
Diolch am y cwestiwn. Rwy'n ymwybodol bod practis y West End yn achos o uno, rwy'n deall, practisiau blaenorol nad oedden nhw'n gallu gweithredu'n llwyddiannus. Fy nealltwriaeth i yw bod hwn yn bractis a reolir yn uniongyrchol sydd wedi bod yn recriwtio staff newydd i ddod i mewn, gan gynnwys meddygon hefyd. Byddaf yn hapus i siarad â'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet, ond hefyd gyda'r bwrdd iechyd, i sicrhau bod nodyn uniongyrchol i'r Aelod ar yr hyn sy'n digwydd. Efallai y byddai'n ddefnyddiol os nad yn unig ar gyfer y rhestr o faterion y mae wedi eu codi nawr, ond i fod yn eglur am unrhyw faterion penodol y mae eisiau iddyn nhw gael eu codi ac i sicrhau eu bod yn cael eu cynnwys mewn ymateb gan y bwrdd iechyd, oherwydd rwy'n cymryd o ddifrif, yn hwn neu yn unrhyw bractis arall, fod trigolion yn gallu cael mynediad at ofal a gwasanaethau o ansawdd uchel, a, lle nad yw hynny'n wir, ein bod ni'n ymwybodol ohono fel y gallwn ni wneud rhywbeth amdano. Rwy'n siŵr y bydd yr Aelod yn manteisio ar gyfleoedd i siarad yn uniongyrchol â'r bwrdd iechyd eu hunain, yn ogystal â'r rhai sy'n rhedeg y practis yn uniongyrchol.
2. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddarparu diweddariad am gynllun gweithredu strategol y Llywodraeth ar gyfer urddas mislif? OQ61180
2. Will the First Minister provide an update on the Government's strategic action plan for period dignity? OQ61180
Thank you for the question. An update on 'Period Proud Wales' was published on the Welsh Government website on 8 March, to coincide with International Women’s Day. Progress has been made in all areas of the plan and will continue, ensuring period dignity remains a key commitment of this Government.
Diolch am y cwestiwn. Cyhoeddwyd diweddariad ar 'Cymru sy'n Falch o'r Mislif' ar wefan Llywodraeth Cymru ar 8 Mawrth, i gyd-fynd â Diwrnod Rhyngwladol y Menywod. Gwnaed cynnydd ym mhob agwedd ar y cynllun a bydd yn parhau, gan sicrhau bod urddas mislif yn parhau i fod yn ymrwymiad allweddol i'r Llywodraeth hon.
Diolch, Brif Weinidog. Dwi wedi darllen y diweddariad hwnnw, ond, yn amlwg, o ran yr ochr ymarferol, mi fyddwch chi'n ymwybodol, yn Awst 2022, y daeth yna ddeddfwriaeth mewn yn yr Alban oedd yn ei gwneud hi'n ddeddf bod yn rhaid darparu cynnyrch mislif am ddim.
Thank you, First Minister. I have read that update, but, clearly, in terms of the practical side, you will be aware that, in August 2022, legislation was introduced in Scotland that made it a legal requirement to provide period products free of charge.
You will know that this was a world first, with the aim of tackling period poverty, promoting period dignity and breaking the stigma, and Northern Ireland followed suit earlier this month. Whilst the Welsh Government is committed, according to the plan, to tackling period poverty in Wales, and, as you outlined in your response, this has been updated, but it isn't a legal requirement. It means there's an inconsistency in terms of access and the types of products available, depending on where people live in Wales. I still hear of products being funded by the Welsh Government being locked away in school cupboards gathering dust, with learners not able to gain access to products that they desperately need. So, how is the Welsh Government monitoring the success of the action plan in getting the products to the people that need them? And has consideration been given to enshrining the right to access products via legislation? If not, why not?
Byddwch yn gwybod bod hwn y cyntaf o'i fath yn y byd, gyda'r nod o fynd i'r afael â thlodi mislif, hyrwyddo urddas mislif a thorri'r stigma, a dilynodd Gogledd Iwerddon yn gynharach y mis hwn. Er bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ymrwymo, yn ôl y cynllun, i fynd i'r afael â thlodi mislif yng Nghymru, ac, fel yr amlinellwyd gennych chi yn eich ymateb, diweddarwyd yr ymrwymiad hwn, ond nid yw'n ofyniad cyfreithiol. Mae'n golygu bod anghysondeb o ran mynediad a'r mathau o gynhyrchion sydd ar gael, yn dibynnu ar le mae pobl yn byw yng Nghymru. Rwy'n dal i glywed am gynhyrchion wedi'u hariannu gan Lywodraeth Cymru yn cael eu cloi i ffwrdd mewn cypyrddau ysgolion yn casglu llwch, â dysgwyr ddim yn gallu cael gafael ar gynhyrchion y mae taer eu hangen arnyn nhw. Felly, sut mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn monitro llwyddiant y cynllun gweithredu o ran cael y cynhyrchion i'r bobl sydd eu hangen? Ac a roddwyd ystyriaeth i ymgorffori'r hawl i fynediad at gynhyrchion trwy ddeddfwriaeth? Os naddo, pam ddim?
Thank you for the question. I'm disturbed to hear any examples of products being locked away and not available for easy access and use. That's the whole point of what we've been trying to do. So, I'd be very grateful to hear specific examples, to make sure that the agreed intent and purpose of our plan is actually dealt with in practice. We of course consider the case about whether legislation will deliver on the practical change we want to see. Actually, in the learning that takes place between Wales and the other four nations, we find that there's a lot to learn from what other nations are doing, but, also, other countries in the UK are interested in what Wales is doing. So, we don't have any plans at present to copy the legislation in other parts of the UK. We're interested in the practical progress that we are making. And part of this is making sure that there is a normalised conversation about periods and menstrual health, that it isn't something to not be discussed, but, actually, to be discussed openly and make sure that access is practically delivered for period products. I'd be more than happy to work with relevant Ministers in the Government, if the Member provides me with the instances that she's shared, because we do need to address those.
Diolch am y cwestiwn. Mae'n destun pryder i mi glywed unrhyw enghreifftiau o gynhyrchion yn cael eu cloi i ffwrdd ac nad oes mynediad hawdd atynt er mwyn eu defnyddio. Dyna holl bwynt yr hyn yr ydym ni wedi bod yn ceisio ei wneud. Felly, byddwn yn ddiolchgar iawn o glywed enghreifftiau penodol, i wneud yn siŵr yr ymdrinnir â bwriad a phwrpas ein cynllun y cytunwyd arnyn nhw yn ymarferol. Wrth gwrs, rydym ni'n ystyried yr achos ynghylch a fydd deddfwriaeth yn cyflawni'r newid ymarferol yr ydym ni eisiau ei weld. A dweud y gwir, yn y dysgu sy'n digwydd rhwng Cymru a'r pedair gwlad arall, rydym ni'n gweld bod llawer i'w ddysgu o'r hyn y mae gwledydd eraill yn ei wneud, ond, hefyd, mae gan wledydd eraill yn y DU ddiddordeb yn yr hyn y mae Cymru'n ei wneud. Felly, nid oes gennym ni unrhyw gynlluniau ar hyn o bryd i gopïo'r ddeddfwriaeth mewn rhannau eraill o'r DU. Mae gennym ni ddiddordeb yn y cynnydd ymarferol yr ydym ni'n ei wneud. A rhan o hyn yw gwneud yn siŵr bod sgwrs wedi'i normaleiddio am y mislif ac iechyd mislif, nad yw'n rhywbeth i beidio ei drafod, ond, mewn gwirionedd, i'w drafod yn agored a gwneud yn siŵr bod mynediad yn cael ei ddarparu'n ymarferol ar gyfer cynhyrchion mislif. Byddwn yn fwy na pharod i weithio gyda Gweinidogion perthnasol yn y Llywodraeth, os gwnaiff yr Aelod roi'r enghreifftiau y mae wedi eu rhannu i mi, oherwydd mae angen i ni fynd i'r afael â'r rheini.
Members, the old New Labour catchline went 'Education, education, education'. Now, as Plan International state in their 'Break the Barriers' report, the taboos and lack of education surrounding menstruation have had a number of tangible negative impacts on girls' day-to-day lives. Of course, the Welsh Government's 'Period Proud Wales' plan sets out an ambition to embed period dignity in schools, but it could take until 2027 for that target to be met. Now, I do agree with the words of the previous social partnership Minister, Hannah Blythyn MS, who stated earlier this year that more must be done to improve education around menstrual cycles if we are going to tackle period dignity in schools. And Hannah is to be commended for not only championing this case, but taking direct action in the education sector to help tackle period poverty. Given the Member's untimely departure from the Welsh Government, what steps will be taken by you to ensure that the open and strong leadership that she showed on this issue is, in fact, continued? Diolch.
Aelodau, 'Addysg, addysg, addysg' oedd hen ymadrodd Llafur Newydd. Nawr, fel y mae Plan International yn ei nodi yn eu hadroddiad 'Break the Barriers', mae'r tabŵs a'r diffyg addysg ynghylch y mislif wedi cael nifer o effeithiau negyddol gwirioneddol ar fywydau merched o ddydd i ddydd. Wrth gwrs, mae cynllun 'Cymru sy'n Falch o'r Mislif' Llywodraeth Cymru yn cyflwyno uchelgais i wreiddio urddas mislif mewn ysgolion, ond gallai gymryd tan 2027 i'r targed hwnnw gael ei gyrraedd. Nawr, rwy'n cytuno â geiriau'r Gweinidog partneriaeth gymdeithasol blaenorol, Hannah Blythyn AS, a ddywedodd yn gynharach eleni fod yn rhaid gwneud mwy i wella addysg ynghylch cylchoedd mislif os ydym ni'n mynd i fynd i'r afael ag urddas mislif mewn ysgolion. Ac mae Hannah i'w chanmol nid yn unig am hyrwyddo'r achos hwn, ond hefyd am weithredu'n uniongyrchol yn y sector addysg i helpu i fynd i'r afael â thlodi mislif. O ystyried ymadawiad cyn pryd yr Aelod â Llywodraeth Cymru, pa gamau y byddwch chi'n eu cymryd i sicrhau bod yr arweinyddiaeth agored a chryf a ddangosodd ar y mater hwn yn parhau, mewn gwirionedd? Diolch.
There is a commitment from the whole Government to deliver not just against the plan, but the practical changes we want to see take place. If you consider the deliberate choice to ensure that, in the code on relationships and sexual education, menstrual health is a key part of that, to make sure it's a conversation for everyone in a classroom. That work is being taken forward, and I can assure you that every member of the Government takes seriously within their portfolio how this is taken forward, whether that's Lynne Neagle as the Cabinet Secretary for Education, or whether it's part of the work that Eluned Morgan is leading on having a proper women's health plan, including for the first time a national clinical lead. So, this Government has made commitments that we will keep.
Ceir ymrwymiad gan y Llywodraeth gyfan i gyflawni nid yn unig yn erbyn y cynllun, ond y newidiadau ymarferol yr ydym ni eisiau eu gweld yn digwydd. Os ystyriwch chi'r dewis bwriadol i sicrhau, yn y cod ar berthnasoedd ac addysg rywiol, fod iechyd mislif yn rhan allweddol o hynny, i wneud yn siŵr ei bod yn sgwrs i bawb mewn ystafell ddosbarth. Mae'r gwaith hwnnw yn cael ei ddatblygu, a gallaf eich sicrhau bod pob aelod o'r Llywodraeth yn cymryd o ddifrif o fewn eu portffolio sut y caiff hyn ei ddatblygu, pa un a yw'n Lynne Neagle fel Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Addysg, neu'n rhan o'r gwaith y mae Eluned Morgan yn ei arwain ar gael cynllun iechyd menywod priodol, gan gynnwys arweinydd clinigol cenedlaethol am y tro cyntaf. Felly, mae'r Llywodraeth hon wedi gwneud ymrwymiadau y byddwn yn eu cadw.
Cwestiynau nawr gan arweinwr y pleidiau. Arweinydd y Ceidwadwyr, Andrew R.T. Davies.
Questions now from the party leaders. The leader of the Conservatives, Andrew R.T. Davies.
Thank you, Presiding Officer. Could I just endorse the comments that the First Minister made in his opening remarks and pay tribute to the Member for Cardiff North, if I may, who has led for many years on this very important subject not just in this place, but in Westminster as well? Sometimes, we have differences across the Chamber, but those differences can be overcome when we see that co-operation on such an important issue. And I commend that Member for the work that she's done on it.
First Minister, last Thursday, you dismissed from your Government the Deputy Minister for social justice. The reason you gave was that you professed to say that you had evidence that showed that she leaked information out of the Government to the media. Could you confirm exactly what evidence you have got, and how that evidence stacks up, when the Deputy Minister's made it quite clear that she did not leak information and she maintains her integrity?
Diolch, Llywydd. A gaf i gymeradwyo'r sylwadau a wnaeth y Prif Weinidog yn ei sylwadau agoriadol a thalu teyrnged i'r Aelod dros Ogledd Caerdydd, os caf, sydd wedi arwain ers blynyddoedd lawer ar y pwnc pwysig iawn hwn, nid yn unig yn y lle hwn, ond yn San Steffan hefyd? Weithiau, rydym ni'n anghytuno ar draws y Siambr, ond gellir goresgyn yr anghytuno hwnnw pan fyddwn ni'n gweld y cydweithrediad hwnnw ar fater mor bwysig. Ac rwy'n cymeradwyo'r Aelod am y gwaith y mae hi wedi ei wneud arno.
Prif Weinidog, ddydd Iau diwethaf, fe wnaethoch chi ddiswyddo o'ch Llywodraeth y Dirprwy Weinidog cyfiawnder cymdeithasol. Y rheswm a roesoch oedd eich bod chi'n honni bod gennych chi dystiolaeth a oedd yn dangos ei bod wedi datgelu gwybodaeth allan o'r Llywodraeth i'r cyfryngau. A allwch chi gadarnhau yn union pa dystiolaeth sydd gennych chi, a sut mae'r dystiolaeth honno yn gwneud synnwyr, pan fo'r Dirprwy Weinidog wedi ei gwneud yn gwbl eglur na wnaeth hi ddatgelu gwybodaeth a'i bod yn dadlau ei huniondeb?
Well, this has been a very difficult time for members across the Government, including, of course, the Member who has now left the Government. No Government in any part of the UK would either give a running commentary or publish all of the information. Some of that information is sensitive to other Ministers. It's important, though, that once you reach a conclusion properly that you have not just a choice, but, in this office, a responsibility to act, which is what I've done, despite all the difficulties and the challenge that causes.
I do, though, want to thank him for recognising the work not just of the Member for Cardiff North, but of people across this Chamber and in other Parliaments too on the widespread campaign to reach a conclusion to the inquiry on infected blood, but also the way in which we now need to work together on the compensation scheme for constituents across our country and, indeed, represented by people of all political shades.
Wel, mae hwn wedi bod yn gyfnod anodd iawn i aelodau ar draws y Llywodraeth, gan gynnwys, wrth gwrs, yr Aelod sydd bellach wedi gadael y Llywodraeth. Ni fyddai unrhyw Lywodraeth mewn unrhyw ran o'r DU naill ai'n rhoi sylwebaeth barhaus nac yn cyhoeddi'r holl wybodaeth. Mae rhywfaint o'r wybodaeth honno'n sensitif i Weinidogion eraill. Mae'n bwysig, fodd bynnag, ar ôl i chi ddod i gasgliad yn briodol nid yn unig bod gennych chi ddewis, ond, yn y swydd hon, gyfrifoldeb i weithredu, sef yr hyn yr wyf i wedi ei wneud, er gwaethaf yr holl anawsterau a'r her y mae hynny'n eu hachosi.
Fodd bynnag, hoffwn ddiolch iddo am gydnabod gwaith nid yn unig yr Aelod dros Ogledd Caerdydd, ond pobl ar draws y Siambr hon ac mewn Seneddau eraill hefyd ar yr ymgyrch eang i gwblhau'r ymchwiliad ar waed heintiedig, ond hefyd y ffordd y mae angen i ni weithio gyda'n gilydd ar y cynllun iawndal i etholwyr ledled ein gwlad ac, yn wir, a gynrychiolir gan bobl o bob arlliw gwleidyddol.
First Minister, when there are two such differing sides to a decision—your decision to dismiss the Member from the Government, based on the evidence that you said you have assessed and that the health Minister says that, I presume, she's had sight of, because in her interview yesterday she supported the decision that you'd taken based on the evidence, and then you have a Deputy Minister who's served within the Government clearly saying that she is not the source of that leak, and she goes on to say integrity is important in politics and she maintains her integrity—can you not see, not just from me as a rival politician, but from the general public's perception of what's going on here, that those two stories cannot be correct? One of them is right, one of them is wrong. Will you make that evidence available so that this can be put to bed, the Government can get on with its important job of governing in the best interests of the people of Wales, and we can, actually, see who is telling the truth here? This isn't the leader of the Conservatives saying it; this is the First Minister saying one thing and a Labour colleague who he dismissed from his Government saying another. There is a discrepancy there. That discrepancy needs to be clarified.
Prif Weinidog, pan fo dwy ochr mor wahanol i benderfyniad—eich penderfyniad chi i ddiswyddo'r Aelod o'r Llywodraeth, yn seiliedig ar y dystiolaeth y gwnaethoch chi ddweud eich bod wedi ei hasesu ac y mae'r Gweinidog iechyd yn ei ddweud, rwy'n tybio, y mae wedi ei gweld, oherwydd yn ei chyfweliad ddoe fe wnaeth hi gefnogi'r penderfyniad yr oeddech chi wedi ei wneud ar sail y dystiolaeth, ac yna mae gennych chi Ddirprwy Weinidog sydd wedi gwasanaethu o fewn y Llywodraeth yn dweud yn eglur nad hi yw ffynhonnell y datgeliad hwnnw, ac mae'n mynd ymlaen i ddweud bod uniondeb yn bwysig mewn gwleidyddiaeth ac mae hi'n dadlau ei huniondeb—allwch chi ddim gweld, nid yn unig gen i fel gwleidydd cystadleuol, ond o dybiaeth y cyhoedd yn gyffredinol o'r hyn sy'n digwydd yma, na all y ddwy stori hynny fod yn iawn? Mae un ohonyn nhw'n iawn, mae un ohonyn nhw'n anghywir. A wnewch chi sicrhau bod y dystiolaeth honno ar gael fel y gellir cau pen y mwdwl ar hyn, fel y gall y Llywodraeth fwrw ymlaen â'i gwaith pwysig o lywodraethu er budd pennaf pobl Cymru, ac y gallwn ni, mewn gwirionedd, weld pwy sy'n dweud y gwir yma? Nid arweinydd y Ceidwadwyr sy'n dweud hyn; mae'n fater o'r Prif Weinidog yn dweud un peth a chyd-Weinidog Llafur y diswyddodd o'i Lywodraeth yn dweud peth arall. Mae anghysondeb yno. Mae angen egluro'r anghysondeb hwnnw.
I'll repeat what I said. This is an extraordinarily difficult choice to have to make, but nevertheless there is a responsibility for me to make that choice. In understanding the position, I both acted in accordance with the ministerial code and the Government Cabinet handbook, and I sought advice from the Permanent Secretary on the process. I won't give a running commentary and I won't publish information, because no Government in this position would do so, of any shade, in any part of the UK. I do recognise what the Member has said, though, that this Government has a mission to govern for the whole of the country, which is what we're doing. If you look at the things that we are already taking measures on, whether it's on the future of sustainable farming, the conversations that are taking place to pause industrial action with the British Medical Association, the work that we're doing on trying to have a different future for steelworkers, this Government is getting on with the job that we are here to do. I recognise a Member leaving the Government is an event in itself. We're trying to handle that difficult situation as sensitively as possible. I still think there is a future for the Member in this institution, and potentially in the Government in the future. I'll carry on behaving in that way, in a good faith way, in the way that I need to make choices, and I take my own integrity seriously, as the Member would expect.
Fe wnaf i ailadrodd yr hyn a ddywedais. Mae hwn yn ddewis eithriadol o anodd ei wneud, ond serch hynny mae cyfrifoldeb arnaf i wneud y dewis hwnnw. O ddeall y sefyllfa, gweithredais yn unol â chod y Gweinidogion a llawlyfr Cabinet y Llywodraeth, a gofynnais am gyngor gan yr Ysgrifennydd Parhaol ar y broses. Ni wnaf i roi sylwebaeth barhaus ac ni wnaf i gyhoeddi gwybodaeth, oherwydd ni fyddai unrhyw Lywodraeth yn y sefyllfa hon yn gwneud hynny, o unrhyw arlliw, mewn unrhyw ran o'r DU. Rwy'n cydnabod yr hyn y mae'r Aelod wedi ei ddweud, fodd bynnag, fod gan y Llywodraeth hon genhadaeth i lywodraethu dros y wlad gyfan, sef yr hyn yr ydym ni'n ei wneud. Os edrychwch chi ar y pethau yr ydym ni eisoes yn cymryd camau arnyn nhw, pa un a yw'n ddyfodol ffermio cynaliadwy, y sgyrsiau sy'n cael eu cynnal i oedi gweithredu diwydiannol gyda Chymdeithas Feddygol Prydain, y gwaith yr ydym ni'n ei wneud ar geisio cael gwahanol ddyfodol i weithwyr dur, mae'r Llywodraeth hon yn bwrw ymlaen â'r gwaith yr ydym ni yma i'w wneud. Rwy'n cydnabod bod Aelod yn gadael y Llywodraeth yn ddigwyddiad ynddo'i hun. Rydym ni'n ceisio ymdrin â'r sefyllfa anodd honno mor sensitif â phosibl. Rwy'n dal i feddwl bod dyfodol i'r Aelod yn y sefydliad hwn, ac o bosibl yn y Llywodraeth yn y dyfodol. Byddaf yn parhau i ymddwyn felly, mewn ffordd ddidwyll, yn y ffordd y mae angen i mi wneud dewisiadau, ac rwy'n cymryd fy uniondeb fy hun o ddifrif, fel y byddai'r Aelod yn ei ddisgwyl.
The Member for Aberconwy highlighted the good work that the Deputy Minister did in relation to her portfolio responsibilities. I've seen that good work being undertaken in respect of south Wales fire service. But that Member's reputation lies in tatters today because you dismissed her from the Government because you said she was the source of a leak to the media. That is a very serious accusation to make, especially when that accusation gets contested.
I accept the First Minister's assertion that no Minister can stay within a Government and leak information from it. No colour of Government could tolerate that. There has to be collective responsibility. That isn't the argument or the debate here. The argument or the debate—[Interruption.] I can hear the Member for Mid and West Wales chuntering there. If you want to say something, it would be good to hear it and to hear the defence that you have for the First Minister. But the point being here is that there are two different stories here, and not unreasonably people are wondering who is telling the truth. Who is telling the truth here when it comes to this career-ending moment? Because I hear what you say about a route back into Government, but the accusation you've levelled against the former Deputy Minister is career ending if it stacks up. You will not release that information, which is to be regretted. I ask you to pause and reflect and think about putting that information in the public domain. As Hannah Blythyn has said, her integrity remains intact; does yours, First Minister?
Tynnodd yr Aelod dros Aberconwy sylw at y gwaith da a wnaeth y Dirprwy Weinidog o ran ei chyfrifoldebau portffolio. Rwyf i wedi gweld y gwaith da hwnnw'n cael ei wneud o ran gwasanaeth tân de Cymru. Ond mae enw da'r Aelod yn deilchion heddiw oherwydd i chi ei diswyddo o'r Llywodraeth oherwydd i chi ddweud mai hi oedd ffynhonnell datgeliad i'r cyfryngau. Mae hwnnw'n gyhuddiad difrifol iawn i'w wneud, yn enwedig pan fo'r cyhuddiad hwnnw'n cael ei ddadlau.
Rwy'n derbyn honiad y Prif Weinidog na all unrhyw Weinidog aros o fewn Llywodraeth a datgelu gwybodaeth ohoni. Ni allai Llywodraeth o unrhyw arlliw oddef hynny. Mae'n rhaid cael cyfrifoldeb cyfunol. Nid dyna'r ddadl na'r drafodaeth yma. Y ddadl neu'r drafodaeth—[Torri ar draws.] Gallaf glywed yr Aelod dros Ganolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru yn grwgnach yn y fan yna. Os ydych chi eisiau dweud rhywbeth, byddai'n dda ei glywed a chlywed yr amddiffyniad sydd gennych chi i'r Prif Weinidog. Ond y pwynt yn y fan yma yw bod dwy stori wahanol yma, ac nid yn afresymol mae pobl yn pendroni pwy sy'n dweud y gwir. Pwy sy'n dweud y gwir yma o ran y penderfyniad hwn sy'n terfynu gyrfa? Oherwydd rwy'n clywed yr hyn yr ydych chi'n ei ddweud am lwybr yn ôl i'r Llywodraeth, ond mae'r cyhuddiad yr ydych chi wedi ei wneud yn erbyn y cyn-Ddirprwy Weinidog yn terfynu ei gyrfa os yw'n wir. Ni wnewch chi gyhoeddi'r wybodaeth honno, a gresyn o beth yw hynny. Gofynnaf i chi oedi a myfyrio a meddwl am wneud yr wybodaeth honno yn gyhoeddus. Fel y mae Hannah Blythyn wedi dweud, mae ei huniondeb yn parhau; a yw eich uniondeb chi, Prif Weinidog?
I'll repeat again the point that I've made. No Government of any shade that has had to take action on this basis would publish that information. We've actually seen that in other instances as well. When it comes to the future, I have recognised the work that the Member has undertaken, not just in the very difficult conversation that has taken place, but also in my written response to her. I would say that, actually, we have found, in previous instances where Ministers have broken the ministerial code, they've had opportunities to return in other places and indeed here as well. Two previous Ministers have had more than one time in Government. So, I don't accept the Member's assertion that this is the end of the Member's career. I think it is perfectly possible in the future for there to be a return, and I look forward to an opportunity to work with her to undertake and to build on the work she's already undertaken. I'm very clear about my integrity and the very difficult choice that I had to make, but I'm very clear about the choice being the correct one for the Government and for the work we need to do on behalf of the country, and that underscores all the decisions I have made in this matter.
Fe wnaf i ailadrodd y pwynt yr wyf i wedi ei wneud eto. Ni fyddai unrhyw Lywodraeth o unrhyw arlliw y bu'n rhaid iddi weithredu ar y sail hon yn cyhoeddi'r wybodaeth honno. Rydym ni wedi gweld hynny mewn sefyllfaoedd eraill hefyd, mewn gwirionedd. O ran y dyfodol, rwyf i wedi cydnabod y gwaith y mae'r Aelod wedi ei wneud, nid yn unig yn y sgwrs anodd iawn a gafwyd, ond hefyd yn fy ymateb ysgrifenedig iddi. Byddwn yn dweud, mewn gwirionedd, ein bod ni wedi canfod, mewn achosion blaenorol lle mae Gweinidogion wedi torri'r cod gweinidogol, eu bod nhw wedi cael cyfleoedd i ddychwelyd mewn mannau eraill ac yma hefyd, yn wir. Mae dau Weinidog blaenorol wedi cael mwy nag un tro yn y Llywodraeth. Felly, nid wyf i'n derbyn honiad yr Aelod mai dyma ddiwedd gyrfa'r Aelod. Rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n berffaith bosibl yn y dyfodol y gallai ddychwelyd, ac edrychaf ymlaen at gyfle i weithio gyda hi i gyflawni ac adeiladu ar y gwaith y mae eisoes wedi ei wneud. Rwy'n eglur iawn ynghylch fy uniondeb a'r dewis anodd iawn y bu'n rhaid i mi ei wneud, ond rwy'n eglur iawn mai'r dewis yw'r un cywir i'r Llywodraeth ac i'r gwaith y mae angen i ni ei wneud ar ran y wlad, ac mae hynny'n tanlinellu'r holl benderfyniadau yr wyf i wedi eu gwneud yn y mater hwn.
Arweinydd Plaid Cymru, Rhun ap Iorwerth.
Leader of Plaid Cymru, Rhun ap Iorwerth.
Diolch, Llywydd. Ddydd Gwener diwethaf mi wnes i roi gwybod i'r Prif Weinidog fod grŵp Plaid Cymru wedi penderfynu dod â diwedd i'r cytundeb cydweithio. Dŷn ni ar y meinciau yma yn falch iawn o beth gafodd ei gyflawni drwy'r cytundeb hwnnw, ac mi wnes i bwysleisio wrth y Prif Weinidog ein hymrwymiad ni i barhau i gydweithio, wrth gwrs, ar faterion lle dŷn ni yn gytûn efo nhw. Dwi'n ailadrodd y neges honno heddiw yn ddiffuant.
Mi oedd y penderfyniad i dynnu allan o'r cytundeb yn seiliedig ar nifer o ffactorau, a'r ffactorau hynny yn golygu bod gormod o sylw yn y pen draw yn cael ei dynnu oddi ar waith pwysig y cytundeb. Mae gan Brif Weinidog newydd berffaith hawl i osod cyfeiriad newydd i'w Lywodraeth, ond doedden ni ddim yn gytûn ar ei amserlen newydd o ar gyfer diwygio'r dreth gyngor, er enghraifft. Ond, wrth gwrs, mae gennym ni hefyd yr argyfwng parhaus o gwmpas arweinyddiaeth y Prif Weinidog.
Thank you, Llywydd. Last Friday I informed the First Minister that the Plaid Cymru group had decided to bring the co-operation agreement to an end. We on these benches are very proud of what was achieved through that agreement, and I emphasised to the First Minister our commitment to continue to work together on issues where we are agreed. I reiterate that message sincerely today.
The decision to withdraw from the agreement was based on a number of factors, and those factors meant that too much attention was being taken off the important work of the agreement. The new First Minister has every right to set a new direction for his Government, but we weren't agreed on his new timetable for reforming council tax, for example. But, of course, we do have this ongoing crisis around the First Minister's leadership.
Another thing that did happen last week was an announcement that £31,000 left over from the £200,000 campaign donation from a convicted environmental polluter was being handed over to the Labour Party centrally. We're told today that it is being donated to progressive causes. Let me just ask this simple question: does the First Minister think that this is somehow the end of the matter?
Peth arall a ddigwyddodd yr wythnos diwethaf oedd cyhoeddiad bod £31,000 a oedd yn weddill o'r rhodd o £200,000 gan lygrydd amgylcheddol y'i cafwyd yn euog yn cael ei drosglwyddo i'r Blaid Lafur yn ganolog. Dywedir wrthym ni heddiw ei fod yn cael ei roi i achosion blaengar. Gadewch i mi ofyn y cwestiwn syml hwn: a yw'r Prif Weinidog yn credu mai dyma ddiwedd y mater rywsut?
So, there are a number of points that the Member has raised. I'll deal first with the donations point, and that is that, in accordance with the rules of the contest I'm required to return the money to Welsh Labour. They've agreed to my request to provide that money to progressive causes, and the Welsh executive of Welsh Labour now need to decide that. I want to be clear that I won't take a part in making that decision; I think they need to have that conversation freely and without me in the room.
On your broader point around the co-operation agreement and its coming to an end, I do regret the early departure of Plaid Cymru from that agreement. It's a matter for the Member, as the leader of Plaid Cymru, to choose the timing of that. I would have been happy to have seen the agreement go all the way through to the end. There is much that we have done together. I was in Ringland Primary School last week, celebrating the twenty-millionth meal that we have provided under our universal free-school-meals policy for primary school children. There was a joint press release with comments from the leader of Plaid Cymru. There are more things we still have to do as well: the launch this week of the culture strategy; in the future, the work that is being done on the round-table on the sustainable farming scheme; and much, much more. I would have liked the opportunity to carry on working together, and I do want to thank the leader previously, but also the two designated Members for the really professional and constructive way in which those meetings took place and the professionalism of the Plaid Cymru special advisers who supported that agreement.
We will, of course, have disagreements on a range of things within and outside the agreement, but I'll carry on working in a way that tries to do the right thing for the country and to take forward the commitments that we have already reached, those we have yet to reach as well, and that will be the way that my Government carries on. I should also note, of course, that the Member is the chair of the cross-party group on haemophilia and infected blood, and he and others have had a real role in making sure that campaign has a real voice in this Parliament too.
Felly, ceir nifer o bwyntiau y mae'r Aelod wedi eu codi. Fe wnaf i ymdrin â'r pwynt rhoddion yn gyntaf, sef, yn unol â rheolau'r ornest, mae'n ofynnol i mi ddychwelyd yr arian i Lafur Cymru. Maen nhw wedi cytuno i'm cais i ddarparu'r arian hwnnw i achosion blaengar, ac mae angen i weithrediaeth Llafur Cymru benderfynu hynny nawr. Rwyf i eisiau bod yn eglur na fyddaf yn cymryd rhan yn y broses o wneud y penderfyniad hwnnw; rwy'n credu bod angen iddyn nhw gael y sgwrs honno'n rhydd a heb i mi fod yn yr ystafell.
O ran eich pwynt ehangach ynghylch y cytundeb cydweithio a'r ffaith ei fod yn dod i ben, rwy'n gresynu ymadawiad cynnar Plaid Cymru o'r cytundeb hwnnw. Mater i'r Aelod, fel arweinydd Plaid Cymru, yw dewis amseriad hynny. Byddwn wedi bod yn hapus i weld y cytundeb yn mynd yr holl ffordd drwodd i'r diwedd. Mae llawer yr ydym ni wedi ei wneud gyda'n gilydd. Roeddwn i yn Ysgol Gynradd Ringland yr wythnos diwethaf, yn dathlu'r ugain miliynfed pryd o fwyd yr ydym ni wedi ei ddarparu o dan ein polisi prydau ysgol am ddim cyffredinol i blant ysgol gynradd. Cafwyd datganiad i'r wasg ar y cyd â sylwadau gan arweinydd Plaid Cymru. Mae mwy o bethau y mae'n rhaid i ni eu gwneud o hyd hefyd: lansiad y strategaeth ddiwylliant yr wythnos hon; yn y dyfodol, y gwaith sy'n cael ei wneud ar y ford gron ar y cynllun ffermio cynaliadwy; a llawer iawn mwy. Byddwn wedi hoffi cael y cyfle i barhau i gydweithio, a hoffwn ddiolch i'r arweinydd blaenorol, ond hefyd y ddau Aelod dynodedig am y ffordd broffesiynol ac adeiladol iawn y cynhaliwyd y cyfarfodydd hynny a phroffesiynoldeb cynghorwyr arbennig Plaid Cymru a gefnogodd y cytundeb hwnnw.
Wrth gwrs, byddwn yn anghytuno ynghylch amrywiaeth o bethau o fewn y cytundeb a'r tu allan iddo, ond byddaf yn parhau i weithio mewn ffordd sy'n ceisio gwneud y peth iawn i'r wlad ac i fwrw ymlaen â'r ymrwymiadau yr ydym ni eisoes wedi'u cyflawni, y rhai nad ydym wedi'u cyflawni eto hefyd, a dyna fydd y ffordd y bydd fy Llywodraeth yn parhau. Dylwn nodi hefyd, wrth gwrs, mai'r Aelod yw cadeirydd y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar haemoffilia a gwaed heintiedig, ac mae ef ac eraill wedi chwarae rhan wirioneddol i wneud yn siŵr bod gan yr ymgyrch honno lais go iawn yn y Senedd hon hefyd.
I'm encouraged by the First Minister's comments in agreeing with me that we should continue to co-operate, of course, where there are areas where we share priorities. But I saw that he wanted to move fairly quickly on from the issue of the donations. We can't move that quickly on. The money was paid to Labour centrally, of course. For one thing, I'd say that the decision to give the money now to progressive causes puts those causes in a rather difficult position, but I'm not going to criticise them.
Secondly, passing on the residual £31,000 is the easy bit, isn't it? We still think, as do many Labour Members, that the right thing to do would have been to pay back the money in its entirety. But also we have confirmation now that Labour won't take the money. That money would have tainted the whole Labour general election campaign. So, doesn't Labour's decision to reject it prove the First Minister's serious error of judgment in being more than happy to take it in the first place?
Rwy'n cael fy nghalonogi gan sylwadau'r Prif Weinidog yn cytuno â mi y dylem ni barhau i gydweithio, wrth gwrs, lle ceir meysydd lle rydym ni'n rhannu blaenoriaethau. Ond gwelais ei fod eisiau symud yn weddol gyflym ymlaen o fater y rhoddion. Ni allwn symud ymlaen mor gyflym â hynny. Talwyd yr arian i Lafur yn ganolog, wrth gwrs. Yn un peth, byddwn yn dweud bod y penderfyniad i roi'r arian nawr i achosion blaengar yn rhoi'r achosion hynny mewn sefyllfa eithaf anodd, ond nid wyf i'n mynd i'w beirniadu.
Yn ail, trosglwyddo'r £31,000 gweddilliol yw'r darn hawdd, onid yw? Rydym ni'n dal i feddwl, fel y mae llawer o Aelodau Llafur, mai'r peth iawn y dylid ei wneud oedd ad-dalu'r arian yn ei gyfanrwydd. Ond hefyd mae gennym ni gadarnhad nawr na fydd Llafur yn cymryd yr arian. Byddai'r arian hwnnw wedi pardduo holl ymgyrch etholiad cyffredinol y Blaid Lafur. Felly, onid yw penderfyniad Llafur i'w wrthod yn profi camgymeriad difrifol y Prif Weinidog o ran crebwyll o fod yn fwy na pharod i'w gymryd yn y lle cyntaf?
I think actually it shows that they have taken seriously the request I made for the money to be used for a different purpose. As ever, not only have I acted within the rules, but I've also recognised the points that a number of Members have made, which is why there's a process within my own party to look at the future rules to understand the tests that everyone needs to meet. But also I think it is appropriate to look at this on a cross-party basis, because individuals and parties all need to understand the test they need to meet, whether that is about caps on donations, whether that is about any other information you want to see from the source of the donation so that everyone understands the tests that they need to reach. And I think that's important to make sure that we're not seeking to have different tests at different points in time.
I am very confident about the election campaign that my party will run here in Wales and right across the UK. If you listen to what people say on a regular basis, they are fed up with the current UK Government, they are desperate to see a change and, actually, here in Wales, I think there is a real understanding that two Labour Governments working together can make a real difference for people in every community across the country. That's the case that I look forward to positively making, and I believe that that is a case that people in Wales are ready to hear and ready to support.
Rwy'n credu ei fod yn dangos mewn gwirionedd eu bod nhw wedi cymryd o ddifrif y cais a wneuthum i'r arian gael ei ddefnyddio at wahanol ddiben. Fel erioed, nid yn unig yr wyf i wedi gweithredu yn unol â'r rheolau, ond rwyf i hefyd wedi cydnabod y pwyntiau y mae nifer o Aelodau wedi eu gwneud, a dyna pam mae proses o fewn fy mhlaid fy hun i edrych ar reolau'r dyfodol i ddeall y profion y mae angen i bawb eu bodloni. Ond hefyd rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n briodol edrych ar hyn ar sail drawsbleidiol, oherwydd mae angen i unigolion a phleidiau i gyd ddeall y prawf y mae angen iddyn nhw ei fodloni, pa un a yw hynny'n ymwneud â chapiau ar roddion, pa un a yw hynny'n ymwneud ag unrhyw wybodaeth arall yr hoffech chi ei gweld o ffynhonnell y rhodd fel bod pawb yn deall y profion y mae angen iddyn nhw eu cyrraedd. Ac rwy'n credu bod hynny'n bwysig i wneud yn siŵr nad ydym ni'n ceisio cael gwahanol brofion ar wahanol adegau mewn amser.
Rwy'n hyderus iawn ynglŷn â'r ymgyrch etholiadol y bydd fy mhlaid yn ei rhedeg yma yng Nghymru ac ar draws y DU gyfan. Os gwrandewch chi ar yr hyn y mae pobl yn ei ddweud yn rheolaidd, maen nhw wedi cael llond bol ar Lywodraeth bresennol y DU, maen nhw'n ysu am weld newid ac, mewn gwirionedd, yma yng Nghymru, rwy'n credu bod gwir ddealltwriaeth y gall dwy Lywodraeth Lafur sy'n cydweithio wneud gwahaniaeth gwirioneddol i bobl ym mhob cymuned ledled y wlad. Dyna'r ddadl yr wyf i'n edrych ymlaen at ei gwneud yn gadarnhaol, ac rwy'n credu bod honno'n ddadl y mae pobl yng Nghymru yn barod i'w clywed ac yn barod i'w chefnogi.
I certainly agree with the First Minister that there are implications for all future leadership campaigns when it comes to setting caps on donations, but what the First Minister is absolutely rejecting to admit to is that it's his actions and his judgment around this particular donation that's brought us to the position of needing to shine a light on this. Now, I've used the word 'distraction'. The Government is distracted; all of this is paralysing its work. I believe in cross-party working, as I've said. We should all believe that. I reiterate again my commitment to co-operate with Government on delivering what was in the agreement, but, of course, I want to constructively influence Ministers to deliver, as any opposition party should, on all of those other issues that matter to the people of Wales. It's why we wanted to move swiftly on council tax, but it's also why we continue to press for a change in approach to bring better results in the NHS and in education; it's why we urge Government to support businesses and to push for the powers we need to run our own affairs. But right now, as I say again, Government is desperately distracted. How long is the First Minister willing to give himself to turn the ship around? And how long should the people of Wales have to wait?
Rwy'n sicr yn cytuno â'r Prif Weinidog bod goblygiadau i bob ymgyrch arweinyddiaeth yn y dyfodol o ran gosod capiau ar roddion, ond yr hyn y mae'r Prif Weinidog yn gwrthod yn llwyr ei gyfaddef yw mai ei weithredoedd ef a'i grebwyll ynghylch y rhodd benodol hon sydd wedi dod â ni i'r sefyllfa o fod angen taflu goleuni ar hyn. Nawr, rwyf i wedi defnyddio'r ymadrodd 'sylw wedi'i dynnu'. Mae sylw'r Llywodraeth wedi'i dynnu; mae hyn oll yn parlysu ei gwaith. Rwy'n credu mewn gweithio trawsbleidiol, fel y dywedais. Dylem ni i gyd gredu hynny. Rwy'n ailadrodd eto fy ymrwymiad i gydweithio â'r Llywodraeth ar gyflawni'r hyn a oedd yn y cytundeb, ond, wrth gwrs, rwyf i eisiau dylanwadu'n adeiladol ar Weinidogion i weithredu, fel y dylai unrhyw wrthblaid, ar yr holl faterion eraill hynny sy'n bwysig i bobl Cymru. Dyna pam yr oeddem ni eisiau symud yn gyflym ar y dreth gyngor, ond dyna hefyd pam rydym ni'n parhau i bwyso am newid dull i sicrhau gwell canlyniadau yn y GIG ac ym myd addysg; dyna pam rydym ni'n annog y Llywodraeth i gefnogi busnesau ac i wthio am y pwerau sydd eu hangen arnom ni i redeg ein materion ein hunain. Ond ar hyn o bryd, fel y dywedaf eto, mae sylw'r Llywodraeth wedi'i dynnu'n ofnadwy. Pa mor hir y mae'r Prif Weinidog yn fodlon rhoi i'w hun i newid trywydd? A pha mor hir ddylai fod yn rhaid i bobl Cymru aros?
Well, I can tell the Member that, since coming into office, I've been focused on priority needs for the people of Wales. The first three groups of people I met were steelworkers, doctors and farmers, looking to take direct action, working with a new ministerial team that I'm very proud of. There's the focus we have on the first 1,000 days in a child's life; the review on 20 mph; the extra investment in transport infrastructure; the fact that we still made sure that we went ahead with Senedd reform—a real commitment being carried forward, and there will be more to do; the elections Bill that is going through the Senedd, as well; and the first of its kind scheme in the UK to help protect public services from cyber attacks. This is a Government that is focused on the job of meeting and serving the needs of the people of Wales. I believe that we can and will make a difference for the people that have elected us, and I believe that we can and will do even more if we can persuade people in Wales and across the UK to elect a progressive Government as a partner in power, not an aggressive competitor determined to take away our powers and our money. That is a future well worth fighting for and well worth winning.
Wel, gallaf ddweud wrth yr Aelod, ers dod i mewn i'r swydd, fy mod i wedi bod yn canolbwyntio ar anghenion sy'n flaenoriaeth i bobl Cymru. Y tri grŵp cyntaf o bobl y gwnes i eu cyfarfod oedd gweithwyr dur, meddygon a ffermwyr, yn bwriadu cymryd camau uniongyrchol, gan weithio gyda thîm gweinidogol newydd yr wyf i'n falch iawn ohono. Ceir y pwyslais sydd gennym ni ar y 1,000 diwrnod cyntaf ym mywyd plentyn; yr adolygiad ar 20 mya; y buddsoddiad ychwanegol mewn seilwaith trafnidiaeth; y ffaith ein bod ni'n dal i wneud yn siŵr ein bod ni'n bwrw ymlaen â diwygio'r Senedd—ymrwymiad gwirioneddol yn cael ei gyflawni, a bydd mwy i'w wneud; y Bil etholiadau sy'n mynd drwy'r Senedd, hefyd; a'r cynllun cyntaf o'i fath yn y DU i helpu i ddiogelu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus rhag ymosodiadau seiber. Llywodraeth yw hon sy'n canolbwyntio ar y gwaith o ddiwallu a gwasanaethu anghenion pobl Cymru. Rwy'n credu y gallwn ni ac y byddwn ni'n gwneud gwahaniaeth i'r bobl sydd wedi ein hethol ni, ac rwy'n credu y gallwn ni ac y byddwn ni'n gwneud hyd yn oed mwy os gallwn ni berswadio pobl yng Nghymru ac ar draws y DU i ethol Llywodraeth flaengar fel partner mewn grym, nid cystadleuydd ymosodol sy'n benderfynol o gymryd ein pwerau a'n harian. Mae hwnnw'n ddyfodol sy'n sicr yn werth ymladd drosto ac yn sicr yn werth ei ennill.
3. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ar honiadau o gamdrin sefydliadol hanesyddol mewn unedau iechyd meddwl yn y gogledd? OQ61181
3. Will the First Minister make a statement on allegations of historic institutional abuse in mental health units in north Wales? OQ61181
Diolch am y cwestiwn.
Thank you for the question.
The issues related to the quality of care in several mental health units in north Wales are recognised and well documented. They were part of what contributed over the last decade to the health board being placed in special measures. A comprehensive programme of work is under way to ensure that the health board makes the sustained progress that is required in mental health services for the staff and the people they care with and for.
Mae'r materion yn ymwneud ag ansawdd gofal mewn sawl uned iechyd meddwl yn y gogledd yn cael eu cydnabod ac wedi cael llawer o sylw. Roedden nhw'n rhan o'r hyn a gyfrannodd dros y degawd diwethaf at osod y bwrdd iechyd mewn mesurau arbennig. Mae rhaglen waith gynhwysfawr ar y gweill i sicrhau bod y bwrdd iechyd yn gwneud y cynnydd parhaus sydd ei angen mewn gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl i'r staff a'r bobl y maen nhw'n gofalu gyda nhw ac amdanyn nhw.
Mental health units, such as Tawel Fan, of course, have been making the headlines, as they have done for a number of years. But this time, I'm aware that the Nursing and Midwifery Council has decided to strike off a psychiatric nurse after a hearing for what they describe as institutional abuse at the unit, going back over 10 years. Now, obviously, the abuse happened before your time as health Minister, but during your time as Minister, you stated that no institutional abuse had taken place. So, in light of the new evidence, do you wish now to revise your previous view? Should you not have done more at the time to get to the truth? And do you now regret painting a very different picture when you were Minister, given that we now know that the reality was very, very different?
Mae unedau iechyd meddwl, fel Tawel Fan, wrth gwrs, wedi bod yn y penawdau, fel y maen nhw ers nifer o flynyddoedd. Ond y tro hwn, rwy'n ymwybodol bod y Cyngor Nyrsio a Bydwreigiaeth wedi penderfynu diarddel nyrs seiciatrig ar ôl gwrandawiad am yr hyn y maen nhw'n ei ddisgrifio fel cam-drin sefydliadol yn yr uned, yn mynd yn ôl dros 10 mlynedd. Nawr, yn amlwg, digwyddodd y cam-drin cyn eich cyfnod fel Gweinidog iechyd, ond yn ystod eich cyfnod fel Gweinidog, fe wnaethoch chi ddweud nad oedd unrhyw gam-drin sefydliadol wedi digwydd. Felly, yng ngoleuni'r dystiolaeth newydd, a ydych chi'n dymuno newid eich barn flaenorol nawr? Oni ddylech chi fod wedi gwneud mwy ar y pryd i ddarganfod y gwirionedd? Ac a ydych chi bellach yn difaru paentio darlun gwahanol iawn pan oeddech chi'n Weinidog, o gofio ein bod ni bellach yn gwybod bod y realiti yn wahanol iawn, iawn?
I think there are two slightly different things here. So, the use of the term 'institutional abuse' is one that I don't shy away from in the NMC's decision—the Nursing and Midwifery Council. I should say that I represented people in regulatory practice hearings during my former career as an employment lawyer; I know the hearings are difficult. But actually, in this case, it was particularly upsetting, not just because of the conduct of the individual in question and the impact on the patient, but also the impact on other members of staff. A trainee witnessed the incident and complained, and she found it so upsetting it took her away from nursing as well. So, there is a point about when senior people in an organisation behave in that way, there are multiple layers of harm that come.
When I was both the Deputy Minister for health and, indeed, the Cabinet Minister for health, I was always really clear about the fact that there were significant failings in healthcare, and at the time when I made those comments, there wasn't the evidence to support the finding of institutional abuse. What we did, though, was to have a searching investigation into what had taken place there, and, indeed, that continues now, not just in the one unit but actually to look at mental health services across north Wales. So, the Government, Eluned Morgan, has ensured that the Royal College of Psychiatrists have undertaken an independent review of mental health services to understand and provide assurance on progress that is being made against previous recommendations.
So, this isn't simply about going back to specific language; it's looking at the challenge that we have today, and understanding where the health board is making progress. That report will be published and discussed in public at a board meeting at the end of this month. That openness, I think, is really important to rebuild relationships and trust in the service, to make sure that we learn from times where that hasn't been the case, and to want to move forward and to improve the service that people should be entitled to rely on today and in the future.
Rwy'n credu bod dau beth ychydig yn wahanol yma. Felly, mae'r defnydd o'r term 'cam-drin sefydliadol' yn un nad wyf i'n cilio oddi wrtho ym mhenderfyniad y Cyngor Nyrsio a Bydwreigiaeth. Dylwn ddweud fy mod i wedi cynrychioli pobl mewn gwrandawiadau ymarfer rheoleiddio yn ystod fy ngyrfa flaenorol fel cyfreithiwr cyflogaeth; rwy'n gwybod bod y gwrandawiadau'n anodd. Ond mewn gwirionedd, yn yr achos hwn, roedd yn peri gofid arbennig, nid yn unig oherwydd ymddygiad yr unigolyn dan sylw a'r effaith ar y claf, ond hefyd yr effaith ar aelodau eraill o staff. Roedd gweithiwr dan hyfforddiant yn dyst i'r digwyddiad ac wedi achwyn, ac fe barodd cymaint o ofid iddi fel y gadawodd nyrsio hefyd. Felly, ceir pwynt ynglŷn â phan fo pobl uwch mewn sefydliad yn ymddwyn yn y ffordd honno, daw haenau lluosog o niwed.
Pan oeddwn i'n Ddirprwy Weinidog iechyd ac, yn wir, yn Weinidog iechyd y Cabinet, roeddwn i bob amser yn eglur iawn ynghylch y ffaith bod methiannau sylweddol mewn gofal iechyd, ac ar yr adeg pan wnes i'r sylwadau hynny, nid oedd tystiolaeth i gefnogi'r canfyddiad o gam-drin sefydliadol. Yr hyn a wnaethom ni, fodd bynnag, oedd cael ymchwiliad trylwyr i'r hyn a oedd wedi digwydd yno, ac, yn wir, mae hwnnw'n parhau nawr, nid yn unig yn yr un uned ond mewn gwirionedd yn edrych ar wasanaethau iechyd meddwl ledled y gogledd. Felly, mae'r Llywodraeth, Eluned Morgan, wedi sicrhau bod Coleg Brenhinol y Seiciatryddion wedi cynnal adolygiad annibynnol o wasanaethau iechyd meddwl i ddeall a rhoi sicrwydd ar gynnydd sy'n cael ei wneud yn erbyn argymhellion blaenorol.
Felly, nid yw hyn yn ymwneud yn syml â dychwelyd i iaith benodol yn unig; mae'n edrych ar yr her sydd gennym ni heddiw, a deall ble mae'r bwrdd iechyd yn gwneud cynnydd. Bydd yr adroddiad hwnnw'n cael ei gyhoeddi a'i drafod yn gyhoeddus mewn cyfarfod bwrdd ddiwedd y mis hwn. Mae'r didwylledd hwnnw, rwy'n credu, yn bwysig iawn i ailadeiladu perthnasoedd ac ymddiriedaeth yn y gwasanaeth, i wneud yn siŵr ein bod ni'n dysgu o adegau pan nad yw hynny wedi bod yn wir, ac eisiau symud ymlaen a gwella'r gwasanaeth y dylai fod gan bobl hawl i ddibynnu arno heddiw ac yn y dyfodol.
The Vale of Clwyd has a long history of mental health institutions and facilities, dating back as far as the 1800s, with the north Wales hospital in Denbigh and, most recently, the Ablett unit with the Tawel Fan ward. Given those historical cases of abuse, my constituents have been subject to the most harrowing situations of mental health abuse perhaps across the whole of north Wales in recent history. So, given that Betsi Cadwaladr is under special measures, which means the direct control of your Welsh Government, what direct strategies or frameworks can you develop with Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board to make sure that cases like this never happen again?
Mae gan Ddyffryn Clwyd hanes maith o sefydliadau a chyfleusterau iechyd meddwl, sy'n dyddio'n ôl cyn belled â'r 1800au, gydag ysbyty gogledd Cymru yn Ninbych ac, yn fwyaf diweddar, uned Ablett gyda ward Tawel Fan. O ystyried yr achosion hanesyddol hynny o gam-drin, mae fy etholwyr wedi bod yn y sefyllfaoedd mwyaf dirdynnol o gam-drin iechyd meddwl efallai ar draws y gogledd cyfan yn ystod hanes diweddar. Felly, o gofio bod Betsi Cadwaladr yn destun mesurau arbennig, sy'n golygu rheolaeth uniongyrchol Llywodraeth Cymru, pa strategaethau neu fframweithiau uniongyrchol allwch chi eu datblygu gyda Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr i wneud yn siŵr nad yw achosion fel hyn byth yn digwydd eto?
Well, that is always part of the challenge, is it not: to recognise when there are failings, to never try to minimise the failings that have taken place and to listen to the voices of people who are complaining or people who say that they have been failed, and, at the same time, to make sure that you don’t condemn an entire service and try to say that nothing good ever happens. Because, actually, not addressing the very real problems that are highlighted actually undermines the position of all of those dedicated professionals who do provide high-quality care. So, this is actually about trying to do all that we can to make sure that lessons are learned from failings in the past, and to make sure that there is proper accountability, where you can identify who is responsible at either a leadership level or an individual level. But you've got to have a culture where, if people feel they're being blamed, you understand that, if that’s the process you have in place, people won’t come forward, and, actually, your opportunity to put right the things that have gone wrong will be put to one side, and the situation will get worse, not better. So, the cultural challenge is a really important one for what improvement looks like.
I don’t want to see any constituent in any part of Wales who has to go to a healthcare facility where they're not treated with the dignity and the respect that they deserve, and they don’t get the quality of care that they deserve, and that our staff feel that they're working in an environment where their concerns will be listened to and they will provide the quality of care they need to and want to. That’s why the report from the Royal College of Psychiatrists, for example, is so important—to give that assurance that recommendations previously have been listened to and are being worked through.
This is, of course, part of the special measures framework: to see improvement in this area and to get independent, objective advice before the Cabinet Secretary for health can make a decision about the next stages in special measures, whether they continue or, indeed, whether there is a path to de-escalation. I’m confident that those processes and those conversations are in place, with external assurance, to do just that.
Wel, mae hynny bob amser yn rhan o'r her, onid yw: cydnabod pan fydd methiannau, peidio byth â cheisio bychanu'r methiannau sydd wedi digwydd a gwrando ar leisiau pobl sy'n cwyno neu bobl sy'n dweud eu bod nhw wedi cael eu siomi, ac, ar yr un pryd, gwneud yn siŵr nad ydych chi'n condemnio gwasanaeth cyfan a cheisio dweud nad oes dim da byth yn digwydd. Oherwydd, mewn gwirionedd, mae peidio â mynd i'r afael â'r problemau gwirioneddol iawn sy'n cael eu hamlygu mewn gwirionedd yn tanseilio sefyllfa'r holl weithwyr proffesiynol ymroddedig hynny sy'n darparu gofal o ansawdd uchel. Felly, mae hyn yn ymwneud mewn gwirionedd â cheisio gwneud popeth o fewn ein gallu i wneud yn siŵr bod gwersi'n cael eu dysgu o fethiannau yn y gorffennol, a gwneud yn siŵr bod atebolrwydd priodol, lle gallwch nodi pwy sy'n gyfrifol naill ai ar lefel arweinyddiaeth neu ar lefel unigol. Ond mae'n rhaid i chi gael diwylliant lle, os yw pobl yn teimlo eu bod yn cael eu beio, eich bod chi'n deall, os dyna'r broses sydd gennych chi ar waith, na fydd pobl yn dod ymlaen, ac, mewn gwirionedd, bydd eich cyfle i unioni'r pethau sydd wedi mynd o'i le yn cael ei roi o'r neilltu, a bydd y sefyllfa yn gwaethygu, nid yn gwella. Felly, mae'r her ddiwylliannol yn un bwysig iawn o ran sut mae gwelliant yn edrych.
Nid wyf i eisiau gweld unrhyw etholwr mewn unrhyw ran o Gymru yn gorfod mynd i gyfleuster gofal iechyd lle nad yw'n cael ei drin gyda'r urddas a'r parch y mae'n ei haeddu, ac nad yw'n cael yr ansawdd o ofal y mae'n ei haeddu, a bod ein staff yn teimlo eu bod nhw'n gweithio mewn amgylchedd lle bydd rhywun yn gwrando ar eu pryderon ac y byddan nhw'n darparu'r ansawdd o ofal y maen nhw ei angen a'i eisiau. Dyna pam mae'r adroddiad gan Goleg Brenhinol y Seiciatryddion, er enghraifft, mor bwysig—i roi'r sicrwydd hwnnw y gwrandawyd ar argymhellion blaenorol a'u bod yn cael sylw.
Mae hyn, wrth gwrs, yn rhan o'r fframwaith mesurau arbennig: i weld gwelliant yn y maes hwn a chael cyngor annibynnol, gwrthrychol cyn y gall Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros iechyd wneud penderfyniad ynghylch y camau nesaf mewn mesurau arbennig, pa un a ydyn nhw'n parhau neu, yn wir, pa un a oes llwybr i ddad-ddwysáu. Rwy'n hyderus bod y prosesau hynny a'r sgyrsiau hynny ar waith, gyda sicrwydd allanol, i wneud yn union hynny.
4. Sut y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn mynd i'r afael ag anghydraddoldebau iechyd menywod? OQ61131
4. How will the Welsh Government will tackle women's health inequalities? OQ61131
Thank you. For too long, there have been deep-seated and entrenched inequalities in the healthcare provided to women. I've regularly said in the past that, if the same healthcare inequalities existed for men, they would have been acted on long ago. We are committed to change and improve women’s and girls’ health and are taking action to improve the health outcomes for women in Wales, including the development of the women’s health plan.
Diolch. Am gyfnod rhy hir, bu anghydraddoldebau dwfn a sefydledig yn y gofal iechyd a ddarparwyd i fenywod. Rwyf i wedi dweud yn rheolaidd yn y gorffennol, pe bai'r un anghydraddoldebau gofal iechyd yn bodoli i ddynion, y bydden nhw wedi cael sylw ers talwm. Rydym ni wedi ymrwymo i newid a gwella iechyd menywod a merched ac rydym ni'n cymryd camau i wella'r canlyniadau iechyd i fenywod yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys datblygu'r cynllun iechyd menywod.
Thank you, First Minister. It has been almost a year since I held my short debate on PMDD, premenstrual dysphoric disorder. Women who suffer with PMDD experience debilitating symptoms, both physically and mentally. The illness affects work, relationships and social lives in a way that non-sufferers will never understand. When I suffered, I was unable to do anything for three weeks out of each month.
The pressure for too many women gets too much. Many want to take their own lives. It's thought that one in 20 women suffer with PMDD, but, due to lack of awareness, this figure is likely to be higher, with some women wrongly diagnosed with endometriosis and other conditions.
In her response to my short debate, the Cabinet Secretary for health stated that there has been insufficient recognition of PMDD, that better training and awareness is needed, including amongst practitioners, and that more information must be provided on health boards’ and 111 websites. So, will the First Minister please provide an update on the progress made over the last year, and please outline any plans that are due to take place in the future?
Diolch, Prif Weinidog. Mae bron i flwyddyn wedi mynd heibio ers i mi gynnal fy nadl fer ar PMDD, anhwylder dysfforig cyn mislif. Mae menywod sy'n dioddef o PMDD yn dioddef symptomau gwanychol, yn gorfforol ac yn feddyliol. Mae'r salwch yn effeithio ar waith, perthnasoedd a bywydau cymdeithasol mewn ffordd na fydd y rhai nad ydynt yn ei ddioddef byth yn ei deall. Pan oeddwn i'n dioddef, doeddwn i ddim yn gallu gwneud dim am dair wythnos o bob mis.
Mae'r pwysau ar ormod o fenywod yn mynd yn ormod. Mae llawer eisiau cymryd eu bywydau eu hunain. Credir fod un o bob 20 o fenywod yn dioddef o PMDD, ond, oherwydd diffyg ymwybyddiaeth, mae'r ffigur hwn yn debygol o fod yn uwch, gyda rhai menywod yn cael diagnosis anghywir o endometriosis a chyflyrau eraill.
Yn ei hymateb i'm dadl fer, dywedodd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros iechyd na fu digon o gydnabyddiaeth o PMDD, bod angen gwell hyfforddiant ac ymwybyddiaeth, gan gynnwys ymhlith ymarferwyr, a bod yn rhaid darparu mwy o wybodaeth ar wefannau byrddau iechyd ac 111. Felly, a wnaiff y Prif Weinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am y cynnydd a wnaed dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, ac amlinellu os gwelwch yn dda unrhyw gynlluniau a ddisgwylir yn y dyfodol?
Thank you. And thank you for the question, for raising this issue in the first place some time ago and for coming back to it to ensure that progress has been made. And I do agree. I'm not sure what the Member has said, but the Cabinet Secretary for health has said previously about providing greater awareness on a range of women's health conditions, including PMDD. And it goes back to the point I made in an earlier question about normalising questions around women's health, including menstrual health. So, what we have done is we've ensured that information about PMDD is included on the NHS Wales 111 website, so it's publicly available, and that signposts information to the Mind website, where even more information is available and has been assured.
Menstrual health is an important broader well-being matter, and I go back to the point that it's an important part of our relationships and sexuality education code—it's a mandatory part of that. So, it's about making sure that each generation coming through our school system learns that this is a normal part of life, to want to make the space for it to be a normal conversation, in the way it still isn't today.
There has been some progress made, but there is much more to do, which is why we have a Period Proud action plan, which is why we do need to keep on taking the steps that have been set out in the women's health plan for the first time with a national clinical lead, both to ensure that women's health issues are recognised and that we deal with issues like misdiagnosis as well. So, I recognise that we have some things we can point to where we can say there's progress being made, but I also recognise that there's much more for us to continue to do, and I'm sure the Member will continue to raise the issue in this Chamber and beyond to make sure we do that.
Diolch. A diolch am y cwestiwn, am godi'r mater hwn yn y lle cyntaf gryn amser yn ôl ac am ddychwelyd ato i sicrhau bod cynnydd wedi cael ei wneud. Ac rwy'n cytuno. Nid wyf i'n siŵr beth mae'r Aelod wedi ei ddweud, ond mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros iechyd wedi dweud yn flaenorol am ddarparu mwy o ymwybyddiaeth o amrywiaeth o gyflyrau iechyd menywod, gan gynnwys PMDD. Ac mae'n mynd yn ôl i'r pwynt a wneuthum mewn cwestiwn cynharach am normaleiddio cwestiynau ynghylch iechyd menywod, gan gynnwys iechyd mislif. Felly, yr hyn yr ydym ni wedi ei wneud yw sicrhau bod gwybodaeth am PMDD wedi ei chynnwys ar wefan GIG Cymru 111, fel ei bod ar gael i'r cyhoedd, ac mae hynny'n cyfeirio gwybodaeth at wefan Mind, lle mae hyd yn oed mwy o wybodaeth ar gael ac y rhoddwyd sicrwydd yn ei gylch.
Mae iechyd mislif yn fater llesiant ehangach pwysig, ac rwy'n dychwelyd at y pwynt ei fod yn rhan bwysig o'n cod addysg perthnasoedd a rhywioldeb—mae'n rhan orfodol o hynny. Felly, mae'n golygu gwneud yn siŵr bod pob cenhedlaeth sy'n dod drwy ein system ysgolion yn dysgu bod hyn yn rhan arferol o fywyd, i fod eisiau gwneud y lle iddi fod yn sgwrs arferol, yn y ffordd nad yw o hyd heddiw.
Gwnaed rhywfaint o gynnydd, ond mae llawer mwy i'w wneud, a dyna pam mae gennym ni gynllun gweithredu Balch o'r Mislif a dyna pam mae angen i ni barhau i gymryd y camau a nodwyd yn y cynllun iechyd menywod am y tro cyntaf gydag arweinydd clinigol cenedlaethol, er mwyn sicrhau bod materion iechyd menywod yn cael eu cydnabod a'n bod ni'n ymdrin â materion fel camddiagnosis hefyd. Felly, rwy'n cydnabod bod gennym ni rai pethau y gallwn ni dynnu sylw atyn nhw lle gallwn ni ddweud bod cynnydd yn cael ei wneud, ond rwyf i hefyd yn cydnabod bod llawer mwy i ni barhau i'w wneud, ac rwy'n siŵr y bydd yr Aelod yn parhau i godi'r mater yn y Siambr hon a thu hwnt i wneud yn siŵr ein bod ni'n gwneud hynny.
First Minister, I was struggling with the menopause without knowing what it was for a few years, with symptoms getting progressively worse at the end of last year to a point where I thought I was actually dying. I shared my story in the press to try and help others and increase awareness of menopause—something that half the population deal with in some form, at some level at some point. Since my diagnosis in December that I was in the middle of the menopause, not even perimenopause, and now having the help I needed, talking to others it's glaringly apparent there's a lack of education or awareness of menopause amongst girls and ladies, but also amongst men and boys and family members. Nine-hundred thousand women left a job in 2022-23 because of menopause symptoms. First Minister, it's important that all people, businesses and organisations have a greater understanding of the effects and symptoms of menopause. It's clear there's an awful lot more that needs to be done to normalise and ensure greater awareness of menopause. What will you and this Government commit to undertake to ensure that this is the case? Surely, an investment in this inequality will pay dividends in health, in the workforce, in the future and for future generations. Thank you.
Prif Weinidog, roeddwn i mewn trafferthion gyda'r menopos heb wybod beth oedd o'i le am ychydig flynyddoedd, wrth i symptomau waethygu'n raddol ddiwedd y llynedd i bwynt lle roeddwn i'n meddwl fy mod i'n marw mewn gwirionedd. Rhannais fy stori yn y wasg i geisio helpu eraill a chynyddu ymwybyddiaeth o'r menopos—rhywbeth y mae hanner y boblogaeth yn ymdrin ag ef ar ryw ffurf, ar ryw lefel ar ryw adeg. Ers fy niagnosis ym mis Rhagfyr fy mod i yng nghanol y menopos, nid hyd yn oed perimenopos, a nawr yn cael y cymorth yr oedd ei angen arnaf i, o siarad ag eraill mae'n amlwg bod diffyg addysg neu ymwybyddiaeth o'r menopos ymhlith merched a menywod, ond hefyd ymhlith dynion a bechgyn ac aelodau o deuluoedd. Gadawodd 900,000 o fenywod swydd yn 2022-23 oherwydd symptomau'r menopos. Prif Weinidog, mae'n bwysig bod gan bob unigolyn, busnes a sefydliad well dealltwriaeth o effeithiau a symptomau'r menopos. Mae'n amlwg bod llawer iawn mwy i'w wneud i normaleiddio a sicrhau mwy o ymwybyddiaeth o'r menopos. Beth wnewch chi a'r Llywodraeth hon ymrwymo i'w gyflawni i sicrhau bod hyn yn digwydd? Does bosib na fydd buddsoddiad yn yr anghydraddoldeb hwn yn talu ar ei ganfed o ran iechyd, yn y gweithlu, yn y dyfodol ac i genedlaethau'r dyfodol. Diolch.
Thank you for the question. I welcome the comments that the Member has made. We will, of course, as part of the women's health action plan, be considering what more we can do around better services for the menopause. Many years ago, I went to a menopause cafe to have a conversation with women who were directly affected, but also men who wanted to find out in a way where they didn't feel they'd be judged, but were curious and wanted to know what they could do. Again, we go back to, if this was an issue that men faced and, at some point, often at the most productive part of your career, when you've had lots of experience, if you then faced the situation of actually it could affect your own productivity, where you question yourself and potentially employers could lose you, because some women do leave the workforce during this time, then I'm confident it's an issue we would have resolved a long time ago. And I'm pleased the Member has felt confident and positive enough to share her own story.
Carolyn Harris, the Labour Member of Parliament, has talked about this issue a lot, and I think it's one of those areas where there is genuine cross-party support. And I mention her because she arranged for some men to put on a menopause suit to experience some of the heat and hot flushes. When that was then reported in some sections of the media, it was seen as an attempt to be woke, in a way that I thought was really unhelpful. The men were criticized for actually doing something, because some of them were in leadership positions in public and private sector organisations. I think it's more important, not less, that men recognise that we have to be part of the answer in this, and what that looks like is still about listening and understanding other people's experience, and understanding what we can do to make the change that takes place one that is as easy as possible, with all the reassurance we need, because it's in our interest for that to happen, as well as the direct work that is being taken forward on the medical services and the healthcare support to be provided. It's a much, much bigger issue than that, including for the future of the economy.
Diolch am y cwestiwn. Rwy'n croesawu'r sylwadau y mae'r Aelod wedi eu gwneud. Byddwn, wrth gwrs, yn rhan o'r cynllun gweithredu iechyd menywod, yn ystyried beth arall y gallwn ni ei wneud o ran gwasanaethau gwell ar gyfer y menopos. Flynyddoedd lawer yn ôl, es i gaffi menopos i gael sgwrs gyda menywod a effeithiwyd yn uniongyrchol, ond hefyd dynion a oedd eisiau darganfod mewn ffordd lle nad oedden nhw'n teimlo y bydden nhw'n cael eu barnu, ond yn chwilfrydig ac eisiau gwybod beth y gallen nhw ei wneud. Eto, rydym ni'n dychwelyd at, pe bai hwn yn fater yr oedd dynion yn ei wynebu ac, ar ryw adeg, yn aml yn ystod rhan fwyaf cynhyrchiol eich gyrfa, pan fyddwch chi wedi cael llawer o brofiad, pe baech chi wedyn yn wynebu'r sefyllfa mewn gwirionedd y gallai effeithio ar eich cynhyrchiant eich hun, lle rydych chi'n cwestiynu eich hun ac o bosibl y gallai cyflogwyr eich colli chi, oherwydd mae rhai menywod yn gadael y gweithlu yn ystod y cyfnod hwn, yna rwy'n hyderus ei fod yn fater y byddem ni wedi ei ddatrys amser maith yn ôl. Ac rwy'n falch bod yr Aelod wedi teimlo'n hyderus ac yn ddigon cadarnhaol i rannu ei hanes ei hun.
Mae Carolyn Harris, yr Aelod Seneddol Llafur, wedi siarad llawer am y mater hwn, ac rwy'n credu ei fod yn un o'r meysydd hynny lle ceir cefnogaeth drawsbleidiol wirioneddol. Ac rwy'n sôn amdani hi gan ei bod wedi trefnu i rai dynion wisgo gwisg menopos i gael profiad o rywfaint o'r gwres a'r pyliau o wres. Pan adroddwyd hynny wedyn mewn rhai rhannau o'r cyfryngau, fe'i hystyriwyd fel ymgais i fod yn 'woke', mewn ffordd yr oeddwn i'n meddwl oedd yn wirioneddol ddi-fudd. Cafodd y dynion eu beirniadu am wneud rhywbeth, oherwydd roedd rhai ohonyn nhw mewn swyddi arweinyddiaeth mewn sefydliadau sector cyhoeddus a sector preifat. Rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n bwysicach, nid yn llai pwysig, bod dynion yn cydnabod bod yn rhaid i ni fod yn rhan o'r ateb yn hyn o beth, ac mae sut mae hynny'n edrych yn dal i ymwneud â gwrando ar brofiad pobl eraill a'i ddeall, a deall yr hyn y gallwn ni ei wneud i wneud y newid sy'n digwydd yn un sydd mor hawdd â phosibl, gyda'r holl sicrwydd sydd ei angen arnom ni, gan ei fod o fudd i ni i hynny ddigwydd, yn ogystal â'r gwaith uniongyrchol sy'n cael ei wneud ar y gwasanaethau meddygol a'r cymorth gofal iechyd i'w ddarparu. Mae'n fater llawer iawn mwy na hynny, gan gynnwys ar gyfer dyfodol yr economi.
I welcome what you were saying, First Minister, because the menopause is one of those taboo subjects that our society has decided that we shouldn’t talk about. It’s one of the most natural things that can happen to our bodies as we get older, but there’s nothing natural or normal about being made to feel like you can’t talk to your employer about how the menopause is affecting you. As we’ve heard, menopause symptoms can be extremely difficult, they can be isolating, from exhaustion to crippling anxiety, a sense of disconnection, and it can isolate women terribly.
Now, the European Court of Human Rights has issued guidance to employers on steps that they can take to help employees, but the guidance itself is not legally binding. So, building on what you’ve just said, what more do you think the Welsh Government can do not just to alert employers to their obligations, but also to empower women so that they can feel less alone when they’re going through this?
Rwy'n croesawu'r hyn yr oeddech chi'n ei ddweud, Prif Weinidog, oherwydd mae'r menopos yn un o'r pynciau tabŵ hynny y mae ein cymdeithas wedi penderfynu na ddylem ni siarad amdanyn nhw. Mae'n un o'r pethau mwyaf naturiol a all ddigwydd i'n cyrff wrth i ni fynd yn hŷn, ond does dim byd naturiol nac arferol am gael eich gwneud i deimlo na allwch chi siarad â'ch cyflogwr am sut mae'r menopos yn effeithio arnoch chi. Fel yr ydym ni wedi ei glywed, gall symptomau'r menopos fod yn anodd iawn, gallan nhw ynysu rhywun, o flinder i orbryder parlysol, synnwyr o ddatgysylltiad, a gall ynysu menywod yn ofnadwy.
Nawr, mae Llys Hawliau Dynol Ewrop wedi cyhoeddi canllawiau i gyflogwyr ar gamau y gallan nhw eu cymryd i helpu gweithwyr, ond nid yw'r canllawiau eu hunain yn rhwymo mewn cyfraith. Felly, gan adeiladu ar yr hyn yr ydych chi newydd ei ddweud, beth arall ydych chi'n meddwl y gall Llywodraeth Cymru ei wneud nid yn unig i hysbysu cyflogwyr am eu rhwymedigaethau, ond hefyd i rymuso menywod fel y gallan nhw deimlo'n llai unig pan fyddan nhw'n mynd drwy hyn?
I think the Member talks about a couple of things that I think are perhaps worth while. There’s a point around where does guidance go, even when it’s not statutory, but to understand what ‘better’ looks like and to make the case that this is actually good for any public service or any business. Any employer should see there’s a benefit in getting this right and being as supportive as possible. There’s the broader point, though, about how you normalise a conversation about an entirely normal subject. It is an event that will take place, and so how do you understand it for your colleagues, for people around you, potentially for you as well? Because part of the disconnection that women regularly talk about is that they weren’t sure what was happening, they didn’t really know, and so that understanding, for yourself, but for others as well—that’s why people need to be genuine allies in listening to consider this. If there were to be changes in the employment field, those are things that I think a future Government should take seriously, but, more than that, to change the culture, to normalise the conversation and to make it a supportive one so people really can reach out and talk to people, and not to be embarrassed about an entirely natural event in a person’s life.
Rwy'n credu bod yr Aelod yn siarad am un neu ddau o bethau sydd efallai'n werth chweil. Ceir pwynt ynghylch ble mae canllawiau yn mynd, hyd yn oed pan nad ydyn nhw'n statudol, ond i ddeall sut mae 'gwell' yn edrych ac i wneud y ddadl bod hyn yn dda i unrhyw wasanaeth cyhoeddus neu unrhyw fusnes mewn gwirionedd. Dylai unrhyw gyflogwr weld bod budd o gael hyn yn iawn a bod mor gefnogol â phosibl. Fodd bynnag, ceir y pwynt ehangach ynglŷn â sut rydych chi'n normaleiddio sgwrs am bwnc cwbl normal. Mae'n ddigwyddiad a fydd yn digwydd, ac felly sut ydych chi'n ei ddeall i'ch cydweithwyr, i bobl o'ch cwmpas, o bosibl i chithau hefyd? Oherwydd rhan o'r datgysylltiad y mae menywod yn siarad amdano'n rheolaidd yw nad oedden nhw'n siŵr beth oedd yn digwydd, doedden nhw ddim wir yn gwybod, ac felly'r ddealltwriaeth honno, i chi'ch hun, ond i eraill hefyd—dyna pam mae angen i bobl fod yn gynghreiriaid gwirioneddol wrth wrando i ystyried hyn. Pe bai newidiadau yn y maes cyflogaeth, mae'r rheini'n bethau yr wyf i'n credu y dylai Llywodraeth yn y dyfodol eu cymryd o ddifrif, ond, yn fwy na hynny, newid y diwylliant, normaleiddio'r sgwrs a'i gwneud yn un cefnogol fel y gall pobl estyn allan a siarad â phobl, a pheidio â theimlo cywilydd am ddigwyddiad cwbl naturiol ym mywyd rhywun.
Good afternoon, First Minister, and I do associate with my colleagues Buffy and with Laura Anne, and with Delyth as well. Thank you for raising this issue. But I wonder if it would be okay for me just to take a zoom-out position, really, on women’s health inequalities and look at the link between poverty and women’s health. According to figures produced by the Office for National Statistics in March, healthy life expectancy at birth in Wales has steadily decreased since 2011, with the decline particularly pronounced for women, who can now expect just 60 years of good health. These statistics become even more stark when factoring in poverty. Data from 2022 shows that women in the most deprived areas of Wales have a healthy life expectancy around 20 years lower than women in the more affluent areas. So, women in our poorest communities can expect to live more than a third of their entire lives with an activity-limiting illness or a disability. So, my question on this issue is: what specific measures is the Welsh Government taking to tackle poverty in order to raise healthy life expectancy for women in the poorer parts of Wales? Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Prynhawn da, Prif Weinidog, ac rwy'n uniaethu â'm cyd-Aelodau Buffy a gyda Laura Anne, a gyda Delyth hefyd. Diolch am godi'r mater hwn. Ond tybed a fyddai'n iawn i mi gymryd safbwynt o gam pellach i ffwrdd, a dweud y gwir, ar anghydraddoldebau iechyd menywod ac edrych ar y cysylltiad rhwng tlodi ac iechyd menywod. Yn ôl ffigurau a gynhyrchwyd gan y Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol ym mis Mawrth, mae disgwyliad oes iach adeg geni yng Nghymru wedi gostwng yn raddol ers 2011, ac mae'r dirywiad yn arbennig o amlwg i fenywod, a all ddisgwyl dim ond 60 mlynedd o iechyd da erbyn hyn. Mae'r ystadegau hyn yn dod hyd yn oed yn fwy llwm o gymryd tlodi i ystyriaeth. Mae data o 2022 yn dangos bod gan fenywod yn ardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig Cymru ddisgwyliad oes iach tua 20 mlynedd yn is na menywod yn yr ardaloedd mwy cefnog. Felly, gall menywod yn ein cymunedau tlotaf ddisgwyl byw mwy na thraean o'u bywydau cyfan gyda salwch sy'n cyfyngu ar weithgarwch neu anabledd. Felly, fy nghwestiwn ar y mater hwn yw: pa fesurau penodol y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i fynd i'r afael â thlodi er mwyn codi disgwyliad oes iach i fenywod yn rhannau tlotaf Cymru? Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Thank you for the question. I don’t think I can do justice to the scale of the challenge the Member has laid down in a minute response. I do, though, recognise the point she makes about inequality and about the intersectionality of living in poverty. It has a direct impact on health outcomes, on life outcomes, and I think, actually, for the first time now, the average life expectancy is lower for women than men, which is extraordinary.
I also recognise a number of the causes. So, people in single-parent households are more likely to be living in poverty, more likely to be led by an adult woman. People in part-time working households, again, exactly the same picture. And actually, particularly now with the cost-of-living crisis in addition, women are much more likely to skip meals to feed their children as well. That all exacerbates and adds to the picture of poverty.
Now, our child poverty strategy does focus on removing barriers to employment and career pathways. There’s a whole range of measures that need to take place. We’ve talked about workplace culture and action—that’s part of it. We’ve talked about valuing women’s work on a regular basis, and making sure that women aren’t underpaid for the job that they do—that’s a big part of it. And we talk about the support we already provide through our employability programmes and beyond in making sure people have the skills to return to work and the childcare to allow women with children to go into the workplace or to go into education and training to allow them to go into the work that they have chosen to do. There’s a multiplicity of measures that we are already taking that we describe in our tackling poverty plan, but there is always more that we can do, and then the assessment of what difference we are making, together with those measures where we need to see a change in approach from the UK Government, and I'm hopeful that will happen in the not-too-distant future.
Diolch am y cwestiwn. Nid wyf i'n credu y gallaf i wneud cyfiawnder â maint yr her y mae'r Aelod wedi ei chyflwyno mewn ymateb munud o hyd. Fodd bynnag, rwy'n cydnabod y pwynt y mae'n ei wneud am anghydraddoldeb ac am groestoriadedd byw mewn tlodi. Mae'n cael effaith uniongyrchol ar ganlyniadau iechyd, ar ganlyniadau bywyd, ac rwy'n credu, mewn gwirionedd, am y tro cyntaf nawr, bod disgwyliad oes cyfartalog yn is i fenywod na dynion, sy'n rhyfeddol.
Rwyf i hefyd yn cydnabod nifer o'r rhesymau. Felly, mae pobl ar aelwydydd un rhiant yn fwy tebygol o fod yn byw mewn tlodi, yn fwy tebygol o gael eu harwain gan fenyw sy'n oedolyn. Pobl ar aelwydydd sy'n gweithio'n rhan-amser, eto, yn union yr un darlun. Ac mewn gwirionedd, yn enwedig nawr gyda'r argyfwng costau byw yn ogystal, mae menywod yn llawer mwy tebygol o hepgor prydau bwyd i fwydo eu plant hefyd. Mae hynny i gyd yn gwaethygu ac yn ychwanegu at y darlun o dlodi.
Nawr, mae ein strategaeth tlodi plant yn canolbwyntio ar gael gwared ar rwystrau rhag cyflogaeth a llwybrau gyrfa. Ceir amrywiaeth eang o fesurau y mae angen iddyn nhw gael eu cymryd. Rydym ni wedi siarad am ddiwylliant a gweithredu yn y gweithle—mae hynny'n rhan ohono. Rydym ni wedi sôn am werthfawrogi gwaith menywod yn rheolaidd, a gwneud yn siŵr nad yw menywod yn cael eu talu'n annigonol am y swydd y maen nhw'n ei gwneud—mae hynny'n rhan fawr ohono. Ac rydym ni'n sôn am y cymorth yr ydym ni eisoes yn ei ddarparu drwy ein rhaglenni cyflogadwyedd a thu hwnt o ran gwneud yn siŵr bod gan bobl y sgiliau i ddychwelyd i'r gwaith a'r gofal plant i ganiatáu i fenywod â phlant fynd i'r gweithle neu fynd i addysg a hyfforddiant i'w caniatáu i fynd i mewn i'r gwaith y maen nhw wedi dewis ei wneud. Ceir nifer fawr o fesurau yr ydym ni eisoes yn eu cymryd yr ydym ni'n eu disgrifio yn ein cynllun trechu tlodi, ond mae mwy y gallwn ni ei wneud bob amser, ac yna'r asesiad o ba wahaniaeth yr ydym ni'n ei wneud, ynghyd â'r mesurau hynny lle mae angen i ni weld newid i ddull gweithredu Llywodraeth y DU, ac rwy'n gobeithio y bydd hynny'n digwydd yn y dyfodol agos.
5. Pa ystyriaeth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i rhoi i gyflwyno cymorth hyfforddiant mewn swydd fel rhan o gynigion yn y dyfodol ar gyfer ei rhaglenni cyflogadwyedd a sgiliau, gan gynnwys ReAct Plws a Cymunedau am Waith a Mwy? OQ61179
5. What consideration has the Welsh Government given to introducing job-coaching support as part of future proposals for its employability and skills programmes, including ReAct Plus and Communities for Work Plus? OQ61179
Thank you for the question. Our employability programmes continue to provide support as officials work through the evidence that will shape our proposals for the future. The Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language is planning to make a statement in the autumn regarding the new single operating model for Welsh Government-funded employability programmes.
Diolch am y cwestiwn. Mae ein rhaglenni cyflogadwyedd yn parhau i ddarparu cymorth wrth i swyddogion weithio drwy'r dystiolaeth a fydd yn llywio ein cynigion ar gyfer y dyfodol. Mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros yr Economi, Ynni a'r Gymraeg yn bwriadu gwneud datganiad yn yr hydref ynglŷn â'r model gweithredu sengl newydd ar gyfer rhaglenni cyflogadwyedd a ariennir gan Lywodraeth Cymru.
That's very useful to know about that statement. I've worked closely with Engage to Change, which is led by Learning Disability Wales and is based at Cardiff University, and what they do is provide a job coaching scheme for people with additional learning needs, particularly autism, to find work placements and other forms of employment. Some forms of supported internships outside of that programme, such as Jobs Growth Wales+ and job support in further education, aren't always appropriate for people with very severe learning disabilities and forms of autism. Engage to Change have filled that gap, and they've proved that job coaching support for those people had a 41 per cent project employment rate in Wales, compared to the 4.8 per cent employment figure for similar people in England. So, it's a significantly successful project.
It's also a matter of equality. The Welsh Government should ensure that all people have opportunities for job coaching. So, does the First Minister agree that ReAct Plus and Communities for Work Plus should have job coaching support available for those who could not get a job without it, particularly those who were part of the Engage to Change project?
Mae hynny'n ddefnyddiol iawn, i wybod am y datganiad yna. Rwyf wedi gweithio'n agos gydag Engage to Change, sy'n cael ei arwain gan Anabledd Dysgu Cymru ac sydd wedi'i leoli ym Mhrifysgol Caerdydd, a'r hyn maen nhw'n ei wneud yw darparu cynllun hyfforddi swyddi i bobl ag anghenion dysgu ychwanegol, yn enwedig awtistiaeth, i ddod o hyd i leoliadau gwaith a mathau eraill o gyflogaeth. Nid yw rhai mathau o interniaethau â chymorth y tu allan i'r rhaglen honno, fel Twf Swyddi Cymru+ a chymorth swydd mewn addysg bellach, bob amser yn addas ar gyfer pobl ag anableddau dysgu difrifol iawn a mathau o awtistiaeth. Mae Engage to Change wedi llenwi'r bwlch hwnnw, ac maen nhw wedi profi bod gan gefnogaeth hyfforddi swyddi i'r bobl hynny gyfradd gyflogaeth prosiect o 41 y cant yng Nghymru, o'i gymharu â'r ffigur cyflogaeth o 4.8 y cant ar gyfer pobl debyg yn Lloegr. Felly, mae'n brosiect llwyddiannus iawn.
Mae hefyd yn fater o gydraddoldeb. Dylai Llywodraeth Cymru sicrhau bod pawb yn cael cyfleoedd hyfforddi swydd. Felly, a yw'r Prif Weinidog yn cytuno y dylai cymorth hyfforddi swydd ReAct Plws a Chymunedau am Waith a Mwy fod ar gael i'r rhai na allent gael swydd hebddo, yn enwedig y rhai a oedd yn rhan o'r prosiect Engage to Change?
I think the way the Member put the question was particularly skilful—'for those people who could not get employment without it'—and that's the challenge about our understanding that there'll be some people that don't need job coaching support. The Department for Work and Pensions have talked about job coaching support as part of their back to work programme. And we do know, and the Member will know—I have visited people on the Engage to Change programme with him—that, actually, for this particular group of people with additional needs, it does make a significant difference, and the fact the Member's highlighted it's already a part of the approach in Jobs Growth Wales+.
So, what we'll be doing is examining the broader evidence for a single operating model to understand the role that job coaching plays, and where it can be of most benefit. And I'm sure that the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language will, in particular, consider the report 'Transitions to Employment', which Dr David may be aware of, which references job coaching and the potential support it provides as one of its key recommendations. So, we are working that through seriously to make sure that when there is a statement in the autumn, we can set out what role does this play and where should it be, and, at the same time, try to make sure that we don't have a contradictory approach with the work that the DWP are themselves doing.
Rwy'n credu bod y ffordd y mynegodd yr Aelod y cwestiwn yn arbennig o fedrus—'i'r bobl hynny na allent gael gwaith hebddo'—a dyna'r her o ran ein dealltwriaeth y bydd rhai pobl nad oes angen cymorth hyfforddi swydd arnynt. Mae'r Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau wedi sôn am gymorth hyfforddi swydd fel rhan o'u rhaglen dychwelyd i'r gwaith. Ac rydym yn gwybod, a bydd yr Aelod yn gwybod—rwyf wedi ymweld â phobl ar y rhaglen Engage to Change gydag ef—ei fod, mewn gwirionedd, i'r grŵp penodol hwn o bobl ag anghenion ychwanegol, yn gwneud gwahaniaeth sylweddol, ac mae'r ffaith y tynnodd yr Aelod sylw ato eisoes yn rhan o'r dull gweithredu yn Twf Swyddi Cymru+.
Felly, yr hyn y byddwn ni'n ei wneud yw archwilio'r dystiolaeth ehangach ar gyfer un model gweithredu i ddeall y rôl y mae hyfforddi swydd yn ei chwarae, a lle y gall fod o'r budd mwyaf. Ac rwy'n siŵr y bydd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros yr Economi, Ynni a'r Gymraeg, yn benodol, yn ystyried yr adroddiad 'Symud o Addysg i Gyflogaeth', y mae Dr David efallai yn ymwybodol ohono, sy'n cyfeirio at hyfforddi swydd a'r cymorth posibl y mae'n ei ddarparu fel un o'i argymhellion allweddol. Felly, rydym yn gweithio drwy hynny o ddifrif i sicrhau pan fydd datganiad yn yr hydref, y gallwn nodi pa rôl y mae'n ei chwarae a ble y dylai fod, ac, ar yr un pryd, ceisio sicrhau nad oes gennym ddull gwrthgyferbyniol â'r gwaith y mae'r Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau ei hun yn ei wneud.
First Minister, while job coaching support is important in ensuring that employability and skills programmes can help retain workers to meet the demand in the job market, with the planned change at Port Talbot the latest in a long line of heavy industry job losses across my region, we must ensure that those skills are the basis for bringing new sectors to the region, such as green energy production. First Minister, how are you ensuring that Welsh Government programmes are adapting to future skill requirements?
Prif Weinidog, er bod cymorth hyfforddi swydd yn bwysig wrth sicrhau y gall rhaglenni cyflogadwyedd a sgiliau helpu i gadw gweithwyr, i ateb y galw yn y farchnad swyddi, gyda'r newid arfaethedig ym Mhort Talbot y diweddaraf mewn llinell hir o golli swyddi trwm yn y diwydiant ar draws fy rhanbarth i, rhaid i ni sicrhau mai'r sgiliau hynny yw'r sail ar gyfer dod â sectorau newydd i'r rhanbarth, fel cynhyrchu ynni gwyrdd. Prif Weinidog, sut ydych chi'n sicrhau bod rhaglenni Llywodraeth Cymru yn addasu i ofynion sgiliau yn y dyfodol?
I thank the Member for the question. I think it asked a different question to the one posed by Hefin David about the role of job coaching and where it's particularly appropriate. I think lots of the workers in and around Tata, certainly directly employed by Tata, will have a different challenge, and a lot of those longer-standing employees may not have undertaken an interview for a very long period of time. They'll have a different need to more recent employees who may well have proactive offers made to them, particularly the skilled workforce, if we see the scale of redundancy going ahead that's being talked about.
We'll still need to see how we also validate the skills people have had. They may not have externally recognised qualifications for the job they're doing. So, there's a range of different measures to work through if we do see the eye-watering levels of job losses that are proposed. There'll be a much bigger impact, though, in the contractor workforce and the wider economy that is reliant on the spending power of the Tata workforce. That's where we can have a much more significant impact.
That'll be much harder to identify at the outset, but that is part of the job that we want to do, and it's why the economy Secretary has written to the Secretary of State for Wales, around the way the transition board operates, to make sure it is more nimble and focused on what the transition board could do, and different practical agencies need to do, to provide the level of support, but also the speed of support that will be required. There is a really practical piece of work to be done by the Welsh Government, by partners in local government, but also with different parts of the UK Government as well, and then we could do something that could be more effective than what otherwise might take place, if the current way of working of the transition board keeps on progressing.
Diolch i'r Aelod am y cwestiwn. Rwy'n credu ei fod wedi gofyn cwestiwn gwahanol i'r un a ofynnwyd gan Hefin David am rôl hyfforddi swydd a lle mae'n arbennig o briodol. Rwy'n credu y bydd gan lawer o'r gweithwyr yn Tata a'r cyffiniau, a gyflogir yn uniongyrchol gan Tata yn sicr, her wahanol, ac efallai na fydd llawer o'r gweithwyr hynny sydd yno ers amser wedi cael cyfweliad ers tro byd. Bydd ganddynt angen gwahanol i weithwyr mwy diweddar a allant fod yn derbyn cynigion rhagweithiol, yn enwedig y gweithlu medrus, os gwelwn raddfa'r diswyddo yn mynd yn ei flaen sy'n cael ei drafod.
Bydd angen i ni weld o hyd sut rydym hefyd yn dilysu'r sgiliau y mae pobl wedi'u cael. Efallai na fydd ganddynt gymwysterau a gydnabyddir yn allanol ar gyfer y swydd y maent yn ei gwneud. Felly, mae yna ystod o wahanol fesurau i weithio drwyddynt os gwelwn y lefelau dychrynllyd o golli swyddi a gynigir. Fodd bynnag, bydd llawer mwy o effaith yng ngweithlu'r contractwyr a'r economi ehangach sy'n dibynnu ar bŵer gwario gweithlu Tata. Dyna lle gallwn gael effaith llawer mwy sylweddol.
Bydd hynny'n llawer anoddach i'w nodi ar y dechrau, ond mae hynny'n rhan o'r gwaith yr ydym eisiau ei wneud, a dyna pam y mae Ysgrifennydd yr economi wedi ysgrifennu at Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, ynghylch y ffordd y mae'r bwrdd pontio'n gweithredu, i sicrhau ei fod yn fwy ystwyth ac yn canolbwyntio ar yr hyn y gallai'r bwrdd pontio ei wneud, a'r hyn y mae angen i wahanol asiantaethau ymarferol ei wneud, er mwyn darparu lefel y gefnogaeth, ond hefyd cyflymder y gefnogaeth fydd ei hangen. Mae yna ddarn ymarferol iawn o waith i'w wneud gan Lywodraeth Cymru, gan bartneriaid mewn llywodraeth leol, ond hefyd gyda gwahanol rannau o Lywodraeth y DU hefyd, ac yna gallem wneud rhywbeth a allai fod yn fwy effeithiol na'r hyn a allai ddigwydd fel arall, os bydd y ffordd bresennol o weithio'r bwrdd pontio yn parhau i ddatblygu.
Building on that skills and employability agenda, and, to a degree, on what Altaf Hussain has just asked, one of the troubles that we are seeing in Tata is actually proving why we need to be on top of our skills strategy. The uncertainty that has been experienced in the area of Port Talbot and wider region has meant that a number of workers have begun to leave working for Tata to work elsewhere, sometimes outside of Wales. We know of a number of people who have gone to work at Hinkley Point, so taking vital skills with them, skills that we know that are going to be vitally important to the future of the Welsh economy. So, I would be interested to know what assessment the Government has made of what this impact might have on the wider Welsh economy and achieving the ambitions that we have around net zero and other ambitions.
Gan adeiladu ar yr agenda sgiliau a chyflogadwyedd honno, ac, i raddau, ar yr hyn y mae Altaf Hussain newydd ei ofyn, mae un o'r trafferthion yr ydym yn ei weld yn Tata yn profi mewn gwirionedd pam y mae angen i ni fod ar ben ein strategaeth sgiliau. Mae'r ansicrwydd sydd wedi ei brofi yn ardal Port Talbot a'r rhanbarth ehangach wedi golygu bod nifer o weithwyr wedi dechrau gadael Tata i weithio mewn mannau eraill, weithiau y tu allan i Gymru. Rydym yn gwybod am nifer o bobl sydd wedi mynd i weithio yn Hinkley Point, felly mynd â sgiliau hanfodol gyda nhw, sgiliau y gwyddom y byddant yn hanfodol bwysig i ddyfodol economi Cymru. Felly, byddai gennyf ddiddordeb mewn gwybod pa asesiad y mae'r Llywodraeth wedi'i wneud o'r effaith y gallai hyn i gyd ei chael ar economi ehangach Cymru a chyflawni'r uchelgeisiau sydd gennym ynghylch sero net ac uchelgeisiau eraill.
Well, this highlights the frustration that myself and the economy Secretary have about the lack of information on the current workforce, who are likely to be told that their jobs will be displaced, but in particular, the contractor workforce as well. Now, that information is available to the company, and sharing that with us is hugely important for us to be able to assess properly the impact of that. We're left with broad assessments of the understanding of the impact of a steelworker's job, their spending power, the number of other jobs in the local economy that are reliant on them. We know there's a skilled workforce where other employers will be interested in the highly skilled workers. What we can't see with the granularity we want is the number of those people that could be affected and how we provide an offer for them to stay in the economy in Wales. Hinkley and other projects are attractive, they're well-paid and they're not very far away from us. The danger will be if those people move permanently and are dislocated, that is then, potentially, a permanent loss to the Welsh economy, as well as its wider impact on the community. It is entirely consistent with the case we have made not just to the company, but to the UK Government, about the way the current approach is being run and, potentially, a significant and generational impact if we cannot get this right for a significant chunk of the people who live in south Wales.
Wel, mae hyn yn tynnu sylw at y rhwystredigaeth sydd gen i ac Ysgrifennydd yr economi am y diffyg gwybodaeth am y gweithlu presennol, sy'n debygol o gael gwybod y bydd eu swyddi'n cael eu dadleoli, ond yn benodol, gweithlu'r contractwyr hefyd. Nawr, mae'r wybodaeth honno ar gael i'r cwmni, ac mae rhannu hynny gyda ni yn hynod bwysig i ni allu asesu effaith hynny'n iawn. Mae gennym asesiadau eang o'r ddealltwriaeth o effaith swydd gweithiwr dur, ei bŵer gwario, nifer y swyddi eraill yn yr economi leol sy'n dibynnu arno. Rydym yn gwybod bod yna weithlu medrus y bydd cyflogwyr eraill â diddordeb yn y gweithwyr medrus iawn. Yr hyn na allwn ei weld gyda'r manylder yr ydym ei eisiau yw nifer y bobl hynny yr effeithir arnynt o bosib a sut rydym yn darparu cynnig iddynt i aros yn yr economi yng Nghymru. Mae Hinkley a phrosiectau eraill yn ddeniadol, maen nhw'n talu'n dda ac nid ydyn nhw'n bell iawn oddi wrthym. Y perygl fydd os bydd y bobl hynny'n symud yn barhaol ac yn cael eu dadleoli, mae hynny, o bosibl yn golled barhaol i economi Cymru, yn ogystal â'r effaith ehangach ar y gymuned. Mae'n gwbl gyson â'r achos rydym wedi'i wneud nid yn unig i'r cwmni, ond i Lywodraeth y DU, am y ffordd y mae'r dull gweithredu presennol yn cael ei redeg ac, o bosibl, effaith sylweddol a chenedlaethol os na allwn gael hyn yn iawn ar gyfer talp sylweddol o'r bobl sy'n byw yn ne Cymru.
6. Beth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i ddiogelu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru rhag seiberymosodiadau? OQ61165
6. What is the Welsh Government doing to protect public services in Wales against cyber attacks? OQ61165
Thank you for the question. With the ever-increasing threat posed by cyber attacks, the Welsh Government’s cyber resilience unit works closely with public bodies to ensure that they are as resilient as they can possibly be. This work forms an important part of our commitment to deliver the 'Cyber action plan for Wales' that I announced last year, in my previous role as the Minister for Economy.
Diolch am y cwestiwn. Gyda'r bygythiad cynyddol a achosir gan ymosodiadau seiber, mae uned seibergadernid Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithio'n agos gyda chyrff cyhoeddus i sicrhau eu bod mor gydnerth ag y gallant fod. Mae'r gwaith hwn yn rhan bwysig o'n hymrwymiad i gyflawni'r 'cynllun gweithredu seiber i Gymru' a gyhoeddais y llynedd, yn fy rôl flaenorol fel Gweinidog yr Economi.
Thank you for that answer. And, of course, as our reliance on the digital world grows, so the risk to our data from cyber attacks increases exponentially. So, I was pleased to see the launch of CymruSOC, a security operations centre, earlier this month. It's a Welsh-led scheme in collaboration with Merthyr Tydfil County Borough Council, managed by a Cardiff-based firm, Socura, and it's a great initiative. CymruSOC will help ensure that key organisations, like the local authorities and the fire and rescue services in Wales, are able to run critical services without disruption in the event of a cyber attack. And, of course, as people apply for those things that they really need, like marriage licences, birth registration, death registration, we can see how useful that data really does become. That national scheme, I believe, is the first of its kind in the UK, and it's to be applauded, so do you agree that this collaborative approach to cyber security is key to providing and protecting our public services from ever more sophisticated cyber attacks?
Diolch am yr ateb yna. Ac, wrth gwrs, wrth i'n dibyniaeth ar y byd digidol dyfu, felly hefyd y risg i'n data o ymosodiadau seiber gynyddu'n esbonyddol. Felly, roeddwn yn falch o weld lansiad CymruSOC, canolfan gweithrediadau diogelwch, yn gynharach y mis hwn. Mae'n gynllun a arweinir gan Gymru mewn cydweithrediad â Chyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Merthyr Tudful, a reolir gan gwmni o Gaerdydd, Socura, ac mae'n fenter wych. Bydd CymruSOC yn helpu i sicrhau bod sefydliadau allweddol, fel yr awdurdodau lleol a'r gwasanaethau tân ac achub yng Nghymru, yn gallu cynnal gwasanaethau critigol heb unrhyw darfu os bydd ymosodiad seiber. Ac, wrth gwrs, wrth i bobl wneud cais am y pethau hynny sydd eu hangen arnynt mewn gwirionedd, fel trwyddedau priodas, cofrestru genedigaethau, cofrestru marwolaeth, gallwn weld pa mor ddefnyddiol yw'r data hynny mewn gwirionedd. Y cynllun cenedlaethol hwnnw, rwy'n credu, yw'r cyntaf o'i fath yn y DU, ac mae i'w gymeradwyo, felly a ydych chi'n cytuno bod y dull cydweithredol hwn o ymdrin â seiberddiogelwch yn allweddol i ddarparu a diogelu ein gwasanaethau cyhoeddus rhag ymosodiadau seiber mwy soffistigedig?
Yes, I'm very proud of the fact that this is a genuine first across the UK. And it comes from partnership as well as expertise in wanting to grow the sector as a business, but also to understand the nature of the threats that exist as well. And this step forward doesn't mean that this is the end of the road; there is much more we need to carry on doing: partnerships within Wales to protect local government and fire and rescue services, but also partnerships with the National Cyber Security Centre, who are part of Government Communications Headquarters.
It's really important because the nature of the data that we're now able to exchange that helps to enable public services to provide a more rounded and sometimes a more individual service also means that the value in that data is even more. Cyber criminals are utterly unscrupulous; they'll attack the health service for health service data, they'll attack local government. In fact, in Leicester recently there's been a school that's been attacked, and of course the publicly confirmed attacks on the Ministry of Defence. There are individuals, there are organisations, and there are state actors in this field as well, so we're going to need to continually invest in what we're doing and to make sure we're constantly looking at have we still got the best model, are we attracting and keeping the best people in the public and in the private sector, because all of them now understand that cyber security is an everyday part of life, not a nice to have.
Ydw, rwy'n falch iawn o'r ffaith mai hwn yw'r cyntaf go iawn ledled y DU. Ac mae'n dod o bartneriaeth yn ogystal ag arbenigedd mewn bod eisiau tyfu'r sector fel busnes, ond hefyd i ddeall natur y bygythiadau sy'n bodoli hefyd. Ac nid yw'r cam hwn ymlaen yn golygu mai dyma ddiwedd y ffordd; mae llawer mwy y mae angen i ni barhau i'w wneud: partneriaethau yng Nghymru i ddiogelu llywodraeth leol a gwasanaethau tân ac achub, ond hefyd partneriaethau gyda'r Ganolfan Seiberddiogelwch Genedlaethol, sy'n rhan o Bencadlys Cyfathrebu'r Llywodraeth.
Mae'n bwysig iawn oherwydd natur y data yr ydym bellach yn gallu ei gyfnewid sy'n helpu i alluogi gwasanaethau cyhoeddus i ddarparu gwasanaeth mwy cyflawn ac weithiau mae gwasanaeth mwy unigol hefyd yn golygu bod y gwerth yn y data hwnnw hyd yn oed yn fwy. Mae troseddwyr seiber yn gwbl ddiegwyddor; byddant yn ymosod ar y Gwasanaeth Iechyd ar gyfer data'r Gwasanaeth Iechyd, byddant yn ymosod ar lywodraeth leol. Yn wir, yng Nghaerlŷr yn ddiweddar ymosodwyd ar ysgol, ac wrth gwrs yr ymosodiadau a gadarnhawyd yn gyhoeddus ar y Weinyddiaeth Amddiffyn. Mae yna unigolion, mae yna sefydliadau, ac mae gweithredwyr gwladol yn y maes hwn hefyd, felly bydd angen i ni fuddsoddi'n barhaus yn yr hyn rydyn ni'n ei wneud ac i sicrhau ein bod ni'n edrych yn gyson i weld a yw'r model gorau gennym o hyd, a ydyn ni'n denu ac yn cadw'r bobl orau yn y sector cyhoeddus ac yn y sector preifat, oherwydd bod pob un ohonynt bellach yn deall bod seiberddiogelwch yn rhan o fywyd bob dydd, nid rhywbeth braf iawn i'w gael.
7. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog roi diweddariad ar waith Cwmni Egino? OQ61164
7. Will the First Minister provide an update on the work of Cwmni Egino? OQ61164
Diolch am y cwestiwn.
Thank you for the question.
Following Great British Nuclear's recent confirmation that Trawsfynydd is not a preferred site for a first-of-a-kind small modular reactor, Cwmni Egino is focused on retaining an option for development at a later date. In dialogue with the UK Government and GBN, a more immediate future for the company is sought, working more widely across north Wales.
Yn dilyn cadarnhad diweddar Great British Nuclear nad yw Trawsfynydd yn safle a ffefrir ar gyfer adweithydd modiwlaidd bach cyntaf o'r fath, mae Cwmni Egino yn canolbwyntio ar gadw'r opsiwn i'w ddatblygu yn nes ymlaen. Mewn deialog â Llywodraeth y DU a GBN, ceisir dyfodol mwy uniongyrchol i'r cwmni, gan weithio'n ehangach ar draws y gogledd.
Diolch am yr ateb. Wel, wrth gwrs, nôl yn 2012, fe sefydlodd y Llywodraeth yma barth menter Eryri er mwyn creu hinsawdd economaidd ffafriol yn yr ardal—ardal Llanbedr a Thrawsfynydd—a fyddai yn y pen draw yn arwain at dwf economaidd, ond methiant llwyr oedd y parth menter yma. Dros gyfnod o 10 mlynedd, ddaru o ddim creu'r un swydd o gwbl, dim ond wedyn er mwyn i'r Llywodraeth fynd ymlaen a chreu cwmni lled braich o'r enw Cwmni Egino. Yn ei dro wedyn mi ydyn ni'n clywed, hwyrach, fod Egino yn mynd i gael ei ffocws wedi'i newid a'i symud. Tybed ydy Egino'n mynd i edrych ar ddatblygu ardal arall yng Nghymru, neu a fydd Cwmni Egino yn cael ei chlymu i fyny yn llwyr? Felly, dwi'n chwilio am sicrwydd gan y Prif Weinidog heddiw, os gwelwch yn dda, y bydd y Llywodraeth yma'n parhau i ganolbwyntio'n economaidd ar Feirionnydd ac y bydd pwrpas Egino yn cael ei addasu er mwyn datblygu prosiectau eraill ym Meirionnydd a fydd yn dod â budd economaidd i'r ardal.
Thank you for that response. Well, of course, back in 2012, the Government established the Eryri enterprise zone to create a favourable economic environment in the area—the Llanbedr and Trawsfynydd area—that would lead to economic growth ultimately, but that zone was a total failure. Over a period of 10 years, it didn't create any jobs at all, only then for the Government to go on to create an arm's-length body called Cwmni Egino. In turn, we've heard that Egino is going to have its focus changed and moved. I wonder whether perhaps Egino is going to look to develop another area in Wales, or whether Cwmni Egino will be wound up in its entirety. So, I'm seeking assurance from the First Minister today that the Government will continue to focus economically on Meirionnydd and that the purpose of Egino will be adapted to develop other alternative projects in Meirionnydd that will bring economic benefits to the area.
Thank you for the question. There is more than one point that I want to make in response. The first is that, for Cwmni Egino, they have been successful in the process around the decommissioning work at Trawsfynydd. Lots of that work has been kept, and kept locally—it wouldn't necessarily have had to have been to the scale that it has been. That's good for local workers and it's actually good for the language as well because two thirds of that workforce are Welsh speakers. So, that's work that Cwmni Egino have already done.
I'm interested in what they can do. They were set up to be more specialised in the nuclear area, so they're interested in the potential for a research reactor. We still have a significant problem in making the type of radioisotopes that we need as standard for diagnosis and treatment in the health service. I think it's something that the UK Government should support; that would be a significant project anchored in north-west Wales. Cwmni Egino are also looking at a role in conversation with GBN about whether they can play a more active part in potential options around Wylfa as well.
I'm interested in a future that anchors jobs over the longer term in north-west Wales, to make sure that that economic benefit can't simply be taken elsewhere and jobs done remotely. So, yes, of course I'm interested, and there is more to do in this part of the world as well, not just two projects in the nuclear sector; I have much greater ambitions for the future of renewables, the future of food, farming and land. I think there's a lot that Meirionnydd has to offer Wales and the wider world.
Diolch am y cwestiwn. Mae mwy nag un pwynt yr wyf eisiau ei wneud mewn ymateb. Y cyntaf yw, i Gwmni Egino, eu bod wedi llwyddo yn y broses yn ymwneud â'r gwaith datgomisiynu yn Nhrawsfynydd. Mae llawer o'r gwaith hwnnw wedi cael ei gadw, a'i gadw'n lleol—ni fyddai o reidrwydd wedi gorfod bod i'r raddfa y bu. Mae hynny'n dda i weithwyr lleol ac mae'n dda i'r iaith hefyd oherwydd bod dwy ran o dair o'r gweithlu hwnnw'n siaradwyr Cymraeg. Felly, dyna waith y mae Cwmni Egino eisoes wedi'i wneud.
Mae gen i ddiddordeb yn yr hyn y gallan nhw ei wneud. Fe'u sefydlwyd i fod yn fwy arbenigol yn yr ardal niwclear, felly mae ganddynt ddiddordeb yn y potensial ar gyfer adweithydd ymchwil. Mae gennym broblem sylweddol o hyd wrth wneud y math o radioisotopau sydd eu hangen arnom fel rhai safonol ar gyfer diagnosis a thriniaeth yn y gwasanaeth iechyd. Rwy'n credu ei fod yn rhywbeth y dylai Llywodraeth y DU ei gefnogi; byddai hwnnw'n brosiect sylweddol wedi'i angori yn y gogledd-orllewin. Mae Cwmni Egino hefyd yn chwilio am ran yn y sgyrsiau gyda GBN ynghylch a allant chwarae rhan fwy gweithredol mewn opsiynau posibl o ran Wylfa hefyd.
Mae gen i ddiddordeb mewn dyfodol sy'n angori swyddi yn y tymor hwy yn y gogledd-orllewin, i sicrhau na ellir mynd â'r budd economaidd hwnnw i rywle arall a swyddi'n cael eu cyflawni o bell. Felly, oes, wrth gwrs mae gen i ddiddordeb, ac mae mwy i'w wneud yn y rhan yma o'r byd hefyd, nid dim ond dau brosiect yn y sector niwclear; mae gen i lawer mwy o uchelgeisiau ar gyfer dyfodol ynni adnewyddadwy, dyfodol bwyd, ffermio a thir. Dwi'n credu bod gan Feirionnydd dipyn i'w gynnig i Gymru a'r byd ehangach.
Yn olaf, cwestiwn 8, Jack Sargeant.
Finally, question 8, Jack Sargeant.
8. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am y defnydd moesegol o ddeallusrwydd artiffisial yng Nghymru? OQ61150
8. Will the First Minister make a statement on the ethical use of artificial intelligence in Wales? OQ61150
Thank you for the question. AI is a key global enabler that has the potential to create significant societal benefits, to be a catalyst for economic growth and prosperity, and to enable wider public service improvement. The use of AI technologies should be undertaken responsibly, ethically and with a social partnership approach from the outset.
Diolch am y cwestiwn. Mae deallusrwydd artiffisial (AI) yn alluogwr byd-eang allweddol sydd â'r potensial i greu buddion cymdeithasol sylweddol, i fod yn gatalydd ar gyfer twf economaidd a ffyniant, ac i alluogi gwella gwasanaethau cyhoeddus ehangach. Dylid gwneud y defnydd o dechnolegau AI yn gyfrifol, yn foesegol a chyda dull partneriaeth gymdeithasol o'r cychwyn cyntaf.
I thank the First Minister for his answer. The First Minister will recall an event that Sarah Murphy and I recently co-hosted with the Wales TUC to launch their report on AI in the workplace. I was grateful to the First Minister for attending the event and listening to the concerns of trade unionists in Wales. The report from the Wales TUC documents for the first time how workers are being negatively affected by the unregulated introduction of AI into Welsh workplaces. As the international community begins to come together to talk about how we can regulate AI and ensure it works for all of us, what steps are the Welsh Government taking to learn from the report of the Wales TUC and ensure that there is a just transition to AI in workplaces across Cymru?
Diolch i'r Prif Weinidog am ei ateb. Bydd y Prif Weinidog yn cofio digwyddiad a gynhaliwyd gan Sarah Murphy a minnau yn ddiweddar gyda TUC Cymru i lansio eu hadroddiad ar ddeallusrwydd artiffisial yn y gweithle. Roeddwn yn ddiolchgar i'r Prif Weinidog am fynychu'r digwyddiad a gwrando ar bryderon undebwyr llafur yng Nghymru. Mae'r adroddiad gan TUC Cymru yn dogfennu am y tro cyntaf sut mae cyflwyno deallusrwydd artiffisial i weithleoedd Cymru yn effeithio'n negyddol ar weithwyr. Wrth i'r gymuned ryngwladol ddechrau dod at ei gilydd i siarad am sut y gallwn reoleiddio deallusrwydd artiffisial a sicrhau ei fod yn gweithio i bob un ohonom, pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i ddysgu o adroddiad TUC Cymru a sicrhau pontio teg i ddeallusrwydd artiffisial mewn gweithleoedd ledled Cymru?
Thank you for the question and the way in which it's been put, which recognises there are significant challenges. That was a large part of the focus of the event that you co-hosted with Sarah Murphy, who is, now, not able to co-host such events in the future. In particular, I was struck by the presentation from the Communication Workers Union about the way in which they thought that AI was being inappropriately used in the workplace, and the lack of controls that came with it, and also the lack of understanding about the information that was being provided.
There is a real challenge there about what looks like inappropriate AI use, and also the potential use in security and law enforcement activity as well. That goes alongside the potential benefit of AI use, both in the private sector, in the field the Member used to work in, as well as in the health service and beyond. This is all topical given the headlines around Scarlett Johansson having her voice copied and the AI company then removing that voice.
There are real threats as well as opportunities that come with this, and it's why I do think it's important that we work internationally. If you think about the approach that the UK Government has taken, they're looking at voluntary regulation—a voluntary code—which I don't think is going to work, not just because the scale of opportunity and concern that exists, but other parts of the world are looking at a regulatory environment. If you think of what the EU is doing in taking forward regulation in this area, that is important not just in the way they see the coverage, but in the fact that AI services are already exported from Wales into the EU. The services that can be provided here into the EU will need to comply with EU regulations in the future. If we aren't able to do it, it will affect the data adequacy standards we have and it will affect much wider trade.
Whether we want to or not, the fact that the rest of the world is looking at a regulatory approach to AI will matter to all of us. I would rather we were part of not just a conversation but the decision making. It is the clear view of the Welsh Government—we've responded to the UK Government consultation—that we believe there should be a regulatory framework that provides the safeguards people would expect to see, and to want to have it designed in at the outset. I think it would be good not just for individuals and for services, but, actually, and ultimately, good for businesses and good for public services too.
Diolch i chi am y cwestiwn a'r ffordd y cafodd ei fynegi, gan gydnabod yr heriau sylweddol. Roedd canolbwyntio mawr ar hynny yn y digwyddiad y gwnaethoch chi ei gynnal gyda Sarah Murphy, na fydd hi, bellach, yn gallu cynnal digwyddiadau o'r fath ar y cyd yn y dyfodol. Yn arbennig, fe gefais i fy nharo gan y cyflwyniad gan Undeb y Gweithwyr Cyfathrebu am y ffordd yr oedden nhw o'r farn fod deallusrwydd artiffisial yn cael ei ddefnyddio mewn ffordd amhriodol yn y gweithle, a'r diffyg rheolaethau a ddaeth yn ei sgil, a'r diffyg dealltwriaeth hefyd o ran yr wybodaeth a gafwyd.
Mae yna her wirioneddol o ran yr hyn sy'n ymddangos fel defnydd amhriodol o ddeallusrwydd artiffisial, a hefyd y defnydd posibl o ran diogelwch a gweithgareddau i orfodi'r gyfraith hefyd. Mae hynny'n cyd-fynd â'r budd posibl o ddefnyddio deallusrwydd artiffisial, yn y sector preifat, yn y maes yr oedd yr Aelod yn arfer gweithio ynddo, yn ogystal ag yn y gwasanaeth iechyd a thu hwnt. Mae hyn i gyd yn amserol iawn o ystyried y penawdau ynghylch y copi o lais Scarlett Johansson a'r cwmni deallusrwydd artiffisial yn dileu'r llais hwnnw wedyn.
Mae yna fygythiadau gwirioneddol yn ogystal â chyfleoedd sy'n dod yn sgil hyn, a dyna pam mae hi'n bwysig yn fy marn i ein bod yn gweithio yn rhyngwladol. Os ydych chi'n ystyried ymagwedd Llywodraeth y DU, maen nhw'n ystyried rheoleiddio gwirfoddol—cod gwirfoddol—rhywbeth nad wyf i'n credu a fydd yn gweithio, nid yn unig oherwydd maint y cyfleoedd a'r pryderon sy'n bodoli, ond mae rhannau eraill o'r byd yn ystyried yr amgylchedd rheoleiddiol. Os ydych chi'n ystyried yr hyn y mae'r UE yn ei wneud wrth fwrw ymlaen â rheoleiddio yn y maes hwn, mae hynny'n bwysig nid yn unig yn y ffordd maen nhw'n gweld y cynnwys, ond yn y ffaith fod gwasanaethau deallusrwydd artiffisial yn cael eu hallforio o Gymru i'r UE eisoes. Fe fydd angen i'r gwasanaethau y gellir eu darparu o'r fan hon i'r UE gydymffurfio â rheoliadau'r UE yn y dyfodol. Os na allwn ni wneud felly, fe fydd hynny'n effeithio ar y safonau digonolrwydd data sydd gennym ni ac fe fydd yn effeithio ar fasnach llawer ehangach.
Os ydym ni'n dymuno hynny neu beidio, fe fydd y ffaith fod gweddill y byd yn ystyried dull rheoleiddiol o ymdrin â deallusrwydd artiffisial o bwys i bob un ohonom ni. Fe fyddai hi'n well gennyf i pe byddem ni nid yn unig â rhan yn y drafodaeth ond yn y broses o wneud penderfyniadau hefyd. Barn eglur Llywodraeth Cymru—rydym ni wedi ymateb i ymgynghoriad Llywodraeth y DU—yw ein bod ni'n credu y dylai fod fframwaith rheoleiddio a fydd yn dynodi'r mesurau diogelu y byddai pobl yn disgwyl eu gweld nhw, ac yn awyddus i'w ddylunio yn ei chynnwys o'i dechreuad. Rwy'n credu y byddai hynny'n beth da nid yn unig i unigolion a gwasanaethau, ond, mewn gwirionedd, ac yn y pen draw, yn beth da i fusnesau ac yn beth da i wasanaethau cyhoeddus hefyd.
Diolch i'r Prif Weinidog.
I thank the First Minister.
Yr eitem nesaf, felly, fydd y cwestiynau i'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol. Mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf y prynhawn yma gan Luke Fletcher.
The next item will be questions to the Counsel General. Question 1 this afternoon is from Luke Fletcher.
1. Pa gyngor cyfreithiol y mae'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol wedi'i roi i Lywodraeth Cymru ar ddatganoli'r system gyfiawnder? OQ61160
1. What legal advice has the Counsel General provided to the Welsh Government on the devolution of the justice system? OQ61160
Thank you for your question. We continue to support the devolution of policing and justice to Wales, as recommended by numerous independent commissions over the years, including most recently by the constitutional commission.
Diolch i chi am eich cwestiwn. Rydym ni'n parhau i gefnogi datganoli plismona a chyfiawnder i Gymru, fel yr argymhellwyd hynny gan nifer o gomisiynau annibynnol dros y blynyddoedd, gan gynnwys y comisiwn cyfansoddiadol yn fwyaf diweddar.
Diolch am yr ateb, Cwnsler Cyffredinol.
Thank you for the answer, Counsel General.
Last week, I asked the Cabinet Secretary for social justice about the concerning situation at His Majesty's Prison Parc, specifically whether there was support for the calls for the Ministry of Justice to replace G4S in running the prison. The role of private prisons will no doubt factor into the debate around the devolution of justice, so in the work the Government is doing, what consideration is being given to what a devolved prison system might look like, how it might be structured, and what potential legal conflicts could arise in its devolution?
Yr wythnos diwethaf, fe ofynnais i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros gyfiawnder cymdeithasol am y sefyllfa bryderus yng Ngharchar Ei Fawrhydi Parc, ac yn benodol a oedd yna gefnogaeth i'r galwadau i'r Weinyddiaeth Gyfiawnder fod yn disodli G4S o ran rhedeg y carchar. Yn ddiamau, fe fydd swyddogaeth carchardai preifat yn rhan o'r ddadl ynghylch datganoli cyfiawnder, ac felly yn y gwaith y mae'r Llywodraeth yn ei wneud, pa ystyriaeth a roddir i sut wedd allai fod ar system garchardai ddatganoledig, sut y gellid ei strwythuro, a pha wrthdaro cyfreithiol posibl allai godi wrth ei datganoli hi?
Thank you for that very pertinent question. The recent deaths are deeply concerning, and I would certainly like to offer my condolences to those affected. There have been, I understand, a total of nine deaths within the past two months at His Majesty's Prison Parc. Whilst the operation of prisons is reserved, the Welsh Government is working with both Public Health Wales and His Majesty's Prison and Probation Service in Wales to discuss the deaths, and also to agree actions to help mitigate the risk of future harm, given the interface between prisons and devolved areas.
As the Member will know, of course, although they are reserved, we have a very specific function and role in terms of health and education within those prisons, and we also have a very specific function in respect of prisoners once they are released from prison in terms of things like employment, in terms of things like housing and other devolved functions. I can tell you that the Cabinet Secretary for Culture and Social Justice has written to the UK Government Minister of State for Prisons, Parole and Probation, Edward Argar, on this matter, and is awaiting a response. And, again, as with all deaths in custody, the Prisons and Probation Ombudsman will investigate.
Diolch i chi am y cwestiwn pwysig iawn hwn. Mae'r marwolaethau diweddar yn peri pryder mawr, ac yn sicr, rwy'n awyddus i fynegi fy nghydymdeimlad â'r rhai yr effeithiwyd arnynt. Rwy'n deall bod cyfanswm o naw o farwolaethau wedi bod yn ystod y ddau fis diwethaf yng Ngharchar Ei Fawrhydi Parc. Er bod rhedeg carchardai yn fater a gedwir yn ôl, mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithio gydag Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru a Gwasanaeth Carchardai a Phrawf Ei Fawrhydi yng Nghymru i drafod y marwolaethau hyn, ac ar gyfer cytuno ar gamau i helpu i leihau'r perygl o niwed i'r dyfodol, o ystyried y cyswllt rhwng carchardai a meysydd datganoledig.
Fel gŵyr yr Aelod, wrth gwrs, er bod y rhain yn faterion a gedwir yn ôl, mae swyddogaeth a gwaith penodol iawn gennym ni o ran iechyd ac addysg yn y carchardai hynny, ac mae swyddogaeth benodol iawn gennym ni hefyd o ran carcharorion wrth iddyn nhw gael eu rhyddhau o'r carchar gyda phethau fel cyflogaeth, fel tai a swyddogaethau datganoledig eraill. Fe allaf i ddweud wrthych chi fod Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Ddiwylliant a Chyfiawnder Cymdeithasol wedi ysgrifennu at Edward Argar, Gweinidog Gwladol Llywodraeth y DU dros Garchardai, Parôl a Phrawf ynglŷn â'r mater hwn, ac mae ef yn aros am ateb. Ac, unwaith eto, fel gydag unrhyw farwolaeth yn y ddalfa, fe fydd yr Ombwdsmon Carchardai a Phrawf yn ymchwilio i hyn.
Good afternoon, Counsel General. The latest projection from the Ministry of Justice has forecast a staggering 30 per cent rise in the prison population over the next four years, potentially reaching 115,000 inmates by 2028, a projection described as utterly untenable by the Howard League for Penal Reform. The United Kingdom already grapples with some of the highest rates of incarceration per population in western Europe, with our overall system being overcrowded every year since 1994. As of April this year, the UK stands at 145 prisoners per 100,000, which is almost double the regional median, at 73. It is evident that we must reject the flawed solution of superprisons, like HMP Berwyn in Wrexham. Despite promises of rehabilitation, one in 10 Berwyn prisoners stated that their experience made them more likely to reoffend. And the latest inspection, last year, revealed alarmingly high rates of self-harm, which Luke Fletcher has highlighted at Parc Prison, inadequate support, and 43 per cent feeling unsafe. So, I would like to ask you, Counsel General, when we do get criminal justice devolved here to Wales, will you close HMP Berwyn in Wrexham? Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Prynhawn da, Cwnsler Cyffredinol. Mae'r amcanestyniad diweddaraf gan y Weinyddiaeth Gyfiawnder yn rhagweld cynnydd syfrdanol o 30 y cant ym mhoblogaeth carchardai dros y pedair blynedd nesaf, a fydd yn cyrraedd 115,000 o garcharorion erbyn 2028 o bosibl, sy'n amcanestyniad a ddisgrifir fel un hollol anghynaladwy gan yr Howard League for Penal Reform. Mae'r Deyrnas Unedig yn ymgodymu eisoes â rhai o'r cyfraddau carcharu uchaf fesul poblogaeth yng ngorllewin Ewrop, gyda'n system gyffredinol yn orlawn bob blwyddyn ers 1994. O fis Ebrill eleni, mae cyfradd y DU yn aros ar 145 o garcharorion fesul 100,000, sef bron ddwywaith y canolrif rhanbarthol, sef 73. Mae hi'n amlwg y bydd yn rhaid i ni wrthod datrysiad diffygiol yr uwchgarchardai, fel CEF Berwyn yn Wrecsam. Er gwaethaf yr addewidion o ran adsefydlu, roedd un o bob 10 carcharor yng Ngharchar Berwyn yn dweud bod ei brofiad yno'n fwy tebygol o wneud iddo aildroseddu. A datgelodd yr arolygiad diweddaraf, y llynedd, gyfraddau brawychus o uchel o hunan-niweidio, fel tynnodd Luke Fletcher sylw at hynny yng Ngharchar y Parc, cefnogaeth annigonol, a 43 y cant yn teimlo yn anniogel. Felly, fe hoffwn i ofyn i chi, Cwnsler Cyffredinol, pan fyddwn ni'n datganoli cyfiawnder troseddol yma i Gymru, a fyddwch chi'n cau CEF Berwyn yn Wrecsam? Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Thank you for the question and the very important points that you raised. The former Minister for social justice and I visited Berwyn and other prisons to look at a lot of the issues that you've raised. You're correct to say that there's been a continued population pressure in the adult male prison estate, and I understand that the UK Government are taking forward a range of measures to relieve those pressures. It's very clear that the prison population has risen, and that prison policy is a significant failure. We are an outrider in terms of progressive policy with regard to prisons and rehabilitation in the whole of Europe. The pressures on the current criminal justice system I think reflect the impact of decades of a punitive and regressive approach to crime and justice issues. It is increasingly clear that a different approach is needed. That in many ways is what underpins the arguments we've put with regard to the devolution of justice and criminal justice—not in terms of taking control of something for the sake of it, but in order to do it differently, in order to integrate it with all those social functions that are so important to rehabilitation.
I can tell you also that the Cabinet Secretary for Culture and Social Justice has recently met with Amy Rees, the director general of His Majesty's Prison and Probation Service, and Ian Barrow, the executive director of HMPPS. That took place on 22 April, where some of these issues were actually discussed. Our officials, even within this reserved area, continue to work in partnership with them, and we continue to make interventions in those areas that are within our responsibility, to try and make that particular difference, but also to understand the developments and what is happening and how that impacts in terms of the support and the services that we provide as a Government.
Diolch i chi am y cwestiwn a'r pwyntiau pwysig iawn y gwnaethoch chi eu codi. Ymwelodd y cyn-Weinidog Cyfiawnder Cymdeithasol a minnau â Berwyn a charchardai eraill i edrych ar lawer o'r materion y gwnaethoch chi eu codi. Rydych chi'n iawn i ddweud y bu yna bwysau parhaus ar yr ystad carchardai dynion i oedolion o ran y niferoedd, ac rwy'n deall bod Llywodraeth y DU yn bwrw ymlaen ag ystod o fesurau i ysgafnu'r pwysau hwnnw. Mae hi'n amlwg iawn fod poblogaeth carchardai wedi codi, a bod polisi carchardai yn fethiant mawr. Rydym ni'n sefyll ar wahân oddi wrth y polisïau blaengar o ran carchardai ac adsefydlu a geir yn Ewrop i gyd. Rwyf i o'r farn fod y pwysau ar y system cyfiawnder troseddol presennol yn adlewyrchu effaith degawdau o ymagwedd gosbol ac atchweliadol tuag at faterion troseddu a chyfiawnder. Fe ddaeth yn fwyfwy amlwg fod angen dull amgen o weithredu. Ac mae hynny mewn sawl ffordd yn sail i'r dadleuon y gwnaethom ni eu cyflwyno o ran datganoli cyfiawnder a chyfiawnder troseddol—nid o ran cymryd rheolaeth ar rywbeth er ei fwyn ei hunan, ond ar gyfer gwneud hynny mewn dull arall, i'w integreiddio â'r swyddogaethau cymdeithasol hynny i gyd sydd mor bwysig o ran adsefydlu.
Fe allaf i ddweud wrthych chi hefyd fod Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Ddiwylliant a Chyfiawnder Cymdeithasol wedi cyfarfod ag Amy Rees, cyfarwyddwr cyffredinol Gwasanaeth Carchardai a Phrawf Ei Fawrhydi, ac Ian Barrow, cyfarwyddwr gweithredol Gwasanaeth Carchardai a Phrawf Ei Fawrhydi. Fe ddigwyddodd hynny ar 22 o fis Ebrill, pan drafodwyd rhai o'r materion hyn mewn gwirionedd. Mae ein swyddogion ni, hyd yn oed yn y maes hwn a gedwir yn ôl, yn parhau i weithio mewn partneriaeth â nhw, ac rydym ni'n dal ati i wneud ymyraethau yn y meysydd hynny sydd yn ein cyfrifoldeb, i geisio gwneud y gwahaniaeth arbennig hwnnw, ond ar gyfer deall y datblygiadau hefyd a'r hyn sy'n digwydd a sut mae hynny'n effeithio o ran y gefnogaeth a'r gwasanaethau yr ydym ni'n eu darparu fel Llywodraeth.
2. Pa gyngor cyfreithiol y mae'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol wedi'i roi i gydweithwyr yn Llywodraeth Cymru ynghylch argymhelliad UNESCO ar foeseg deallusrwydd artiffisial? OQ61142
2. What legal advice has the Counsel General provided to Welsh Government colleagues regarding UNESCO's recommendation on the ethics of artificial intelligence? OQ61142
Thank you for that question. The rise of AI will create opportunities, but it will also create significant ethical challenges. The Welsh Government recognises the significant economic, public service delivery and wider social benefits that could be gained from its use, but also the need for a strong focus on embedding ethical considerations and social partnership from the outset.
Diolch i chi am y cwestiwn yna. Bydd cynnydd ym maes deallusrwydd artiffisial yn creu cyfleoedd, ond fe fydd yn creu heriau moesegol sylweddol hefyd. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn cydnabod y ddarpariaeth economaidd, gyhoeddus sylweddol a'r manteision cymdeithasol ehangach y gellid eu cael o'i ddefnyddio, ond yr angen hefyd i ganolbwyntio yn fanwl ar ymgorffori ystyriaethau moesegol a phartneriaeth gymdeithasol o'r cychwyn cyntaf.
I'm grateful to the Counsel General for that. The use of AI is growing at an exponential rate. It has serious legal implications for residents of Wales in a whole host of fields, and it is vital that we get the regulations right. That means a just transition, where workers benefit and do not lose out. As the MP Darren Jones said in the House of Commons, 'Having left the EU, I see two roads ahead of us. We either keep doing what we are doing, or we modernise our country.' Counsel General, do you agree with me that, in order to modernise our country, all Governments in the UK should look to implement the UNESCO AI framework, and that it is the responsibility of all Government departments and all Parliaments in the UK, including this Senedd, to keep up with the speed of innovation of AI by legislating where appropriate?
Rwy'n ddiolchgar i'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol am hynna. Mae'r defnydd o ddeallusrwydd artiffisial yn cynyddu'n esbonyddol. Mae oblygiadau cyfreithiol difrifol i hynny i drigolion Cymru mewn myrdd o feysydd, ac mae hi'n hanfodol ein bod ni'n llunio'r rheoliadau yn iawn. Mae hynny'n golygu pontio teg, lle mae gweithwyr ar eu mantais ac nid ar eu colled. Fel dywedodd yr AS Darren Jones yn Nhŷ'r Cyffredin, 'Ar ôl gadael yr UE, rwy'n gweld dwy ffordd o'n blaenau. Fe fyddwn ni naill ai'n parhau gyda'r hyn a wnawn ni nawr, neu fe fyddwn ni'n moderneiddio ein gwlad.' Cwnsler Cyffredinol, a ydych chi'n cytuno â mi, er mwyn moderneiddio ein gwlad, y dylai pob Llywodraeth yn y DU geisio gweithredu fframwaith deallusrwydd artiffisial UNESCO, a'i bod hi'n gyfrifoldeb ar bob un o adrannau'r Llywodraeth a phob Senedd yn y DU, gan gynnwys y Senedd hon, i gadw i fyny â chyflymder arloesi deallusrwydd artiffisial trwy ddeddfu lle bo hynny'n briodol?
Thank you for those points. Perhaps following on from some of the earlier comments made by the First Minister, we have, of course, as a Government, been advocating the need for appropriate regulation and an appropriate governance and assurance mechanism guided by key principles. Of course, the key principles that are directly relevant to us are those that arise from the UNESCO recommendations, and the United Kingdom is the member state of UNESCO. Those recommendations were adopted about ethical, trustworthy values and interests et cetera, about accessibility, inclusivity, innovation, collaboration, but also, very importantly in terms of what you are saying, that AI should be transparent, it should be accountable, and it should be subject to appropriate governance and oversight.
Of course, there is some very interesting work, as has already been mentioned, going on with the European Union—the fact that there is already an Act being worked on that is there, that has a number of key elements to it, which are related to the use of AI, but also the protections that are needed from the use of AI, and also what follows on from the other aspect, and that is the accessibility and use of data that arises from the EU general data protection regulation of 2018. So, although we may not be a part of the EU now, due to the fact that so much of our trade and engagement is with the EU, what is happening there and the innovations taking place there are fundamentally important to us.
There is, within the Welsh Government, a cross-organisation AI working group, which has been established to embed AI thinking into policy and delivery. The workforce partnership council has established a working group as well to develop those principles and guidance. And we continue to work with all relevant partners in order to stay in touch, to be aware, but also to be able to look at the steps that we can take in order to implement the principles that we've adopted and that underpin the use of AI.
Diolch i chi am y pwyntiau yna. Gan ddilyn rhai o'r sylwadau a wnaeth y Prif Weinidog yn gynharach efallai, rydym ni, wrth gwrs, yn y Llywodraeth, wedi bod yn hyrwyddo'r angen am reoleiddio priodol a mecanwaith llywodraethu a sicrwydd priodol a arweinir gan egwyddorion allweddol. Wrth gwrs, yr egwyddorion allweddol sy'n berthnasol yn uniongyrchol i ni yw'r rhai sy'n codi o argymhellion UNESCO, ac mae'r Deyrnas Unedig yn aelod-wladwriaeth yn UNESCO. Mabwysiadwyd yr argymhellion hynny ynglŷn â gwerthoedd a buddiannau moesol, dibynadwy ac ati, ynghylch hygyrchedd, cynwysoldeb, arloesi, cydweithio, ond hefyd, yn bwysig iawn o ran yr hyn yr ydych chi'n ei ddweud, y dylai deallusrwydd artiffisial fod yn dryloyw, fe ddylai fod yn atebol, ac fe ddylai fod yn destun i lywodraethu a goruchwyliaeth briodol.
Wrth gwrs, mae rhywfaint o waith diddorol iawn, fel cafodd ei grybwyll yn barod, yn digwydd gyda'r Undeb Ewropeaidd—y ffaith bod gwaith yn mynd rhagddo ar Ddeddf eisoes, sydd â nifer o elfennau allweddol ynddi, sy'n gysylltiedig â defnyddio deallusrwydd artiffisial, ond hefyd yr amddiffyniadau angenrheidiol rhag rhai ffyrdd o ddefnyddio deallusrwydd artiffisial, a hefyd yr hyn sy'n dilyn ymlaen ar yr agwedd arall, a hynny yw hygyrchedd a defnydd data sy'n codi o reoliad diogelu data cyffredinol yr UE 2018. Felly, er nad ydym ni'n rhan o'r UE nawr, oherwydd y ffaith bod cymaint o'n masnach a'n hymgysylltiad ni gyda'r UE, mae'r hyn sy'n digwydd yno a'r datblygiadau arloesol sy'n digwydd yno yn hanfodol bwysig i ni.
Mae yna, yn Llywodraeth Cymru, weithgor deallusrwydd artiffisial traws-sefydliadol, a sefydlwyd i ymgorffori ystyriaethau deallusrwydd artiffisial i bolisi a chyflawniad. Mae cyngor partneriaeth y gweithlu wedi sefydlu gweithgor yn ogystal â datblygu'r egwyddorion a'r canllawiau hynny. Ac rydym ni'n parhau i weithio gyda'r partneriaid perthnasol i gyd ar gyfer cadw mewn cysylltiad, a bod yn ymwybodol, ond ar gyfer edrych hefyd ar y camau y gallwn ni eu cymryd i weithredu'r egwyddorion y gwnaethom ni eu mabwysiadu ac sy'n rhoi sail i'r defnydd a wneir o ddeallusrwydd artiffisial.
Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Mark Isherwood.
Questions now from the party spokespeople. Welsh Conservatives spokesperson, Mark Isherwood.
In June 2023, you published a White Paper consultation entitled 'A new tribunal system for Wales', which closed last October, after receiving just 54 responses. As you know, the proposals in the White Paper set out the intention to create a unified tribunal system for Wales, comprising two new tribunals: the first-tier tribunal for Wales and the appeal tribunal for Wales, respectively. As you develop the legislative changes you propose to reform the tribunal system in Wales, how will you respond to the 91 per cent of positive responses to the question in the consultation asking whether respondents agree the jurisdictions of the Welsh tribunals should be transferred to the first-tier tribunal for Wales, with some of them making the important point that disruption should be kept to a minimum with no adverse impacts on the ongoing business of each tribunal?
Ym mis Mehefin 2023, fe wnaethoch chi gyhoeddi ymgynghoriad Papur Gwyn o'r enw 'System dribiwnlys newydd i Gymru', a gaewyd fis Hydref diwethaf, ar ôl cael dim ond 54 o ymatebion. Fel gwyddoch chi, roedd y cynigion yn y Papur Gwyn yn nodi'r bwriad i greu system dribiwnlysoedd unedig i Gymru, sy'n cynnwys dau dribiwnlys newydd: tribiwnlys haen gyntaf Cymru a thribiwnlys apêl Cymru, yn y drefn honno. Wrth i chi ddatblygu'r newidiadau deddfwriaethol ar gyfer eich bwriad o ddiwygio'r system tribiwnlysoedd yng Nghymru, sut fyddwch chi'n ymateb i'r 91 y cant o'r ymatebion cadarnhaol i'r cwestiwn yn yr ymgynghoriad a oedd yn gofyn a yw'r ymatebwyr yn cytuno y dylid trosglwyddo awdurdodaethau tribiwnlysoedd Cymru i dribiwnlys haen gyntaf Cymru, gyda rhai ohonyn nhw'n gwneud y pwynt pwysig y dylid sicrhau'r amhariad lleiaf posibl heb unrhyw effeithiau dinistriol ar fusnes parhaus pob tribiwnlys?
Thank you. Again, that's a very important question, because, following on from the Law Commission recommendations, legislation is in preparation in respect of those recommendations, with a view to a tribunal Bill, to implement the work the Law Commission has done, but also to bring up to date to the twenty-first century in a proper judicial way all those tribunals that have come to Wales in an ad hoc way—very important tribunals, but tribunals that have different structures depending upon the nature of the tribunal and how they've arrived. The intention, as you say, is to create a first-tier tribunal, and also, as I've said in the past, for the first time in Welsh history, for over 600 years and probably more, an appellate structure.
This part of the judicial system that is already devolved comes with a number of additional challenges. Firstly, I think there was a considerable amount of support. The consultation, the White Paper, I think, was very supportive of the direction in which we're going. We do want the minimum of any transitional problems to be overcome, which is why it needs to be planned very carefully. One of the issues, of course, that is very important is the independence of the tribunals and the need to look at those tribunals to be in a separate structure, but also to be proper tribunals that have the informality that we would expect from tribunals. Also, tribunals are, of course, something that offer an opportunity in terms of much greater use, I think, of the Welsh language within that part of the judicial system.
What I can assure the Member of is this: there would be no sudden shock transformation in terms of the tribunals and the way they operate, but there will be a greater modernisation of them, a greater assurance of the independence of the way in which they operate, the facilities, the resources and support that's necessary for that part of the Welsh judiciary, and also, as the tribunals develop, to look at other areas that would come naturally within a tribunal structure to see how that can actually be facilitated.
I was very impressed and learnt a lot by attending the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service in Scotland, who introduced legislation on this in 2014. They, of course, have a very different history, but it was a very useful exercise to learn from their own experience, and those lessons are ones that I'm giving considerable consideration to in looking at how we can benefit from those.
Diolch i chi. Unwaith eto, mae hwnna'n gwestiwn pwysig iawn, oherwydd, yn dilyn argymhellion Comisiwn y Gyfraith, mae deddfwriaeth yn cael ei pharatoi o ran yr argymhellion hynny, gyda golwg ar Fil tribiwnlysoedd, i weithredu'r gwaith a wnaeth Comisiwn y Gyfraith, ond hefyd ar gyfer diweddaru hyd at ddisgwyliadau'r unfed ganrif ar hugain, mewn ffordd sy'n briodol yn farnwrol, yr holl dribiwnlysoedd hynny sydd wedi dod i Gymru mewn ffordd ad hoc—tribiwnlysoedd pwysig iawn, ond tribiwnlysoedd sydd â strwythurau amrywiol a hynny'n dibynnu ar natur y tribiwnlysoedd ac ym mha ffordd y gwnaethon nhw gyrraedd. Y bwriad, fel rydych chi'n dweud, yw creu tribiwnlys haen gyntaf, a hefyd, fel dywedais i yn y gorffennol, am y tro cyntaf yn hanes Cymru, am dros 600 mlynedd a mwy mae'n debyg, strwythur apeliadol.
Fe ddaw'r rhan hon o'r system farnwrol a ddatganolwyd eisoes gyda nifer o heriau ychwanegol. Yn gyntaf, rwy'n credu bod cryn dipyn o gefnogaeth wedi bod. Roedd yr ymgynghoriad, y Papur Gwyn, rwy'n credu, yn gefnogol iawn i'r cyfeiriad yr ydym ni'n mynd iddo. Rydym ni'n awyddus i oresgyn unrhyw broblemau trosiannol yn y man lleiaf, a dyna pam mae angen i hyn gael ei gynllunio yn ofalus iawn. Un o'r materion, wrth gwrs, sy'n bwysig iawn yw annibyniaeth y tribiwnlysoedd a'r angen i ystyried bod â'r tribiwnlysoedd hynny mewn strwythur ar wahân, ond hefyd i fod yn dribiwnlysoedd priodol sydd â'r anffurfioldeb y byddem ni'n ei ddisgwyl gan dribiwnlysoedd. Hefyd, wrth gwrs, mae tribiwnlysoedd yn rhywbeth sy'n cynnig cyfle i ddefnyddio llawer mwy, rwy'n credu, o'r Gymraeg yn y rhan honno o'r system farnwrol.
Yr hyn y gallaf i sicrhau'r Aelod ohono yw: na fyddai unrhyw drawsnewidiad ysgytwol sydyn o ran y tribiwnlysoedd na'r ffordd y maen nhw'n gweithredu, ond fe fydd yna fwy o foderneiddio arnyn nhw, mwy o sicrwydd o annibyniaeth yn y ffordd y maen nhw'n gweithio, y cyfleusterau, yr adnoddau a'r gefnogaeth sy'n angenrheidiol ar gyfer y gyfran honno o farnwriaeth Cymru, a hefyd, wrth i'r tribiwnlysoedd ddatblygu, ystyriaeth o feysydd eraill a fyddai'n dod yn naturiol i mewn i strwythur tribiwnlys ar gyfer gweld sut y gellir hwyluso hynny mewn gwirionedd.
Roedd fy edmygedd i'n fawr ac fe ddysgais i lawer wrth fynychu Gwasanaeth Llysoedd a Thribiwnlysoedd yr Alban yn yr Alban, a gyflwynodd ddeddfwriaeth yn 2014 yn hyn o beth. Mae ganddyn nhw, wrth gwrs, hanes gwahanol iawn, ond roedd hwnnw'n ymarfer defnyddiol iawn ar gyfer dysgu o'u profiad nhw eu hunain, ac mae'r gwersi hynny'n rhai yr wyf i'n rhoi cryn ystyriaeth iddyn nhw wrth edrych ar sut y gallwn ni elwa arnyn nhw.
Thank you. You referred to the independence of the tribunals. As you develop the legislative changes you propose to reform the tribunals system in Wales, how will you respond to the 94 per cent of positive responses to the question in the consultation asking whether the respondents agreed with the proposed statutory duty to uphold judicial independence applying to all those with responsibility for the administration of justice as that applies to the reformed tribunals system in Wales, with the president of the Education Tribunal for Wales stating,
'Most definitely. It is an imperative step that needs to be clearly established in advance of the transfer of jurisdictional powers',
with Dr Huw Evans of Cardiff Metropolitan University stating that,
'in addition to the Welsh Government upholding the independence of Welsh tribunal members, the Counsel General must defend that independence',
and with SNAP Cymru expressing support for the Law Commission's recommendations of a statutory duty to uphold the independence of the devolved tribunals?
Diolch i chi. Roeddech chi'n cyfeirio at annibyniaeth y tribiwnlysoedd. Wrth i chi ddatblygu'r newidiadau deddfwriaethol yr ydych chi'n bwriadu diwygio'r system tribiwnlysoedd yng Nghymru â nhw, sut fyddech chi'n ymateb i'r 94 y cant o'r ymatebion cadarnhaol i'r cwestiwn yn yr ymgynghoriad a oedd yn gofyn a oedd yr ymatebwyr yn cytuno â'r ddyletswydd statudol arfaethedig i gynnal annibyniaeth farnwrol sy'n berthnasol i bawb sydd â chyfrifoldeb am weinyddu cyfiawnder fel bo'n berthnasol i'r system tribiwnlysoedd ddiwygiedig yng Nghymru, gyda llywydd Tribiwnlys Addysg Cymru yn datgan,
'Yn gwbl sicr. Mae hwnnw'n gam hanfodol y mae angen ei sefydlu yn bendant cyn trosglwyddo pwerau awdurdodaethol',
gyda Dr Huw Evans o Brifysgol Metropolitan Caerdydd yn datgan,
'tra bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn cynnal annibyniaeth aelodau tribiwnlys Cymru, fe fydd hi'n rhaid i'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol amddiffyn yr annibyniaeth honno ar ben hynny',
a gyda SNAP Cymru yn mynegi ei gefnogaeth i argymhellion Comisiwn y Gyfraith y dylai fod dyletswydd statudol i gynnal annibyniaeth y tribiwnlysoedd datganoledig?
The independence of tribunals is something that has come up on a number of occasions, not only in the consultation but also in discussions with the new president of tribunals, Sir Gary Hickinbottom, who I am meeting later this week. There is absolutely no question about the importance of the independence of the system. As they have come to us, there is a need to formalise that independence. My personal view—it's an area to be considered—is I don't think it's necessary to legislate for the independence. What is necessary is that we have actually a court structure that actually operates independently within a proper judicial framework. And it's not a jurisdiction that's been transferred to us; this is already with us in a whole number of areas, and what we are doing is bringing it together into a proper first-tier system that secures the benefit of Welsh judges being able to sit in more than one tribunal, but also, as we pass legislation that may create offences or appeals structures or matters that would be referred to a tribunal, that that would be the natural home for those matters to actually be considered.
Mae annibyniaeth y tribiwnlysoedd yn fater a gododd ar sawl achlysur, nid yn unig yn yr ymgynghoriad ond mewn trafodaethau hefyd gyda llywydd newydd y tribiwnlysoedd, Syr Gary Hickinbottom, y byddaf i'n cwrdd ag ef yn ddiweddarach yr wythnos hon. Ni oes unrhyw gwestiwn o gwbl ynghylch pwysigrwydd annibyniaeth y system. Gan mai nhw sydd wedi dod atom ni, mae angen ffurfioli'r annibyniaeth honno. Fy marn bersonol—mae hwn yn faes i'w ystyried—yw nad wyf i'n credu bod angen deddfu ar gyfer yr annibyniaeth. Yr hyn sy'n angenrheidiol yw bod strwythur llys gennym ni sy'n gweithio yn wirioneddol annibynnol mewn fframwaith barnwrol priodol. Ac nid awdurdodaeth a drosglwyddwyd i ni yw hi; mae hyn gennym ni eisoes mewn nifer o feysydd, a'r hyn yr ydym ni'n ei wneud yw dod a'r cyfan at ei gilydd mewn system haen gyntaf addas sy'n sicrhau'r fantais y bydd barnwyr Cymru yn gallu eistedd mewn mwy nag un tribiwnlys, ond hefyd, wrth i ni basio deddfwriaeth a allai greu strwythurau ynglŷn â throseddau neu apeliadau neu faterion a fyddai'n cael eu cyfeirio at dribiwnlys, mai hwnnw fyddai'r cartref naturiol i'r materion hynny gael eu hystyried mewn gwirionedd.
Thank you. My final question on this theme: responding to your statement here last June on tribunal reform and Wales's evolving judicial landscape, I again raised concerns with you that vulnerable children and their families in Wales were being let down because the Education Tribunal for Wales lacks any enforcement powers and cannot take further enforcement action when the relevant public bodies fail to carry out their orders. Despite the High Court ruling in 2018 that the exclusion of an autistic pupil for behaviour arising from their autism was unlawful, I continue to receive north Wales casework where this is happening. So, as you develop the legislative changes you propose to reform the tribunal system in Wales, how will you therefore respond to the 80 per cent of positive responses to the question in the consultation asking whether respondents agreed that the jurisdiction of school exclusion appeal panels should be transferred to the first-tier tribunal for Wales, with the president of the Education Tribunal for Wales stating that,
'The specialist expertise of our Tribunal Specialist Members mean that we are best placed to make fair and just decisions which are independent of an individual School or Local Authority process'?
Diolch i chi. Fy nghwestiwn olaf i ar y thema hon: wrth i mi ymateb i'ch datganiad yn y fan hon fis Mehefin y llynedd ar ddiwygio tribiwnlysoedd a'r dirwedd farnwrol sy'n esblygu yng Nghymru, fe wnes i godi pryderon gyda chi unwaith eto fod plant agored i niwed a'u teuluoedd nhw yng Nghymru yn cael eu siomi oherwydd nad oes gan Dribiwnlys Addysg Cymru unrhyw bwerau gorfodi ac na allan nhw gymryd camau gorfodi pellach pan fo'r cyrff cyhoeddus perthnasol yn methu â chyflawni eu gorchmynion. Er i'r Uchel Lys ddyfarnu yn 2018 fod gwahardd disgybl awtistig am ymddygiad sy'n deillio o'i awtistiaeth yn anghyfreithlon, rwy'n parhau i dderbyn gwaith achos yn y gogledd lle mae hyn yn digwydd. Felly, wrth i chi ddatblygu'r newidiadau deddfwriaethol yr ydych chi'n bwriadu diwygio'r system tribiwnlysoedd yng Nghymru trwyddyn nhw, sut ydych chi felly am ymateb i'r 80 y cant o'r ymatebion cadarnhaol i'r cwestiwn yn yr ymgynghoriad a oedd yn gofyn a oedd ymatebwyr yn cytuno y dylid trosglwyddo awdurdodaeth paneli apêl gwaharddiadau o ysgolion i dribiwnlys haen gyntaf Cymru, gyda llywydd Tribiwnlys Addysg Cymru yn datgan,
'Mae arbenigedd arbenigol Aelodau Arbenigol ein Tribiwnlys yn golygu mai ni sydd yn y sefyllfa orau i wneud penderfyniadau teg a chyfiawn sy'n annibynnol ar brosesau Ysgolion neu Awdurdod Lleol unigol'?
I agree with those latter points that you've made on this, and I think the intention is that the issue of school exclusions is a matter that will come into the tribunals in due course. Whether it comes in right at the first instance is another matter. As you know, there is already a mechanism in respect of school exclusions. But, of course, what we do recognise, and I certainly recognise it in terms of the number of times I've sat in now in the youth courts, is we see how important the issue of exclusions is, the role it plays in the pathway of young people, whether it's into criminality, and so on. So, in many ways, in terms of our social objectives of keeping young people out of the criminal justice system, out of eventually the prison system, addressing the problems they have and early interventions, I think exclusions are actually a really significant part of that. We've got to make sure that we handle it properly, and I think certainly the direction we're in is that exclusions are a matter that will, in due course, come into the first-tier tribunal system, once it is actually established. And I think that would be, probably, in keeping with the outcome of the consultation and the comments that were made during that consultation process.
Rwy'n cytuno â'r pwyntiau olaf hynny a wnaethoch chi yn hyn o beth, ac rwy'n credu mai'r bwriad yw bod materion ynglŷn â gwaharddiadau o ysgolion yn faterion a ddaw i mewn i'r tribiwnlysoedd maes o law. A ddaw hynny'n union ar y dechrau sy'n fater arall. Fel gwyddoch chi, mae yna fecanwaith eisoes o ran gwaharddiadau o ysgolion. Ond, wrth gwrs, yr hyn yr ydym ni'n ei gydnabod, ac yn sicr rwy'n cydnabod hynny o ran y nifer o droeon yr wyf i wedi eistedd i mewn yn y llysoedd ieuenctid erbyn hyn, yw ein bod ni'n gweld pa mor bwysig yw mater gwaharddiadau, y swyddogaeth sydd ganddo yn llwybrau pobl ifanc, os yw hynny'n arwain at droseddu, ac ati. Felly, mewn sawl ffordd, o ran ein hamcanion cymdeithasol ni o gadw pobl ifanc o'r system cyfiawnder troseddol, o'r system carchardai yn y pen draw, a mynd i'r afael â'r problemau sydd ganddyn nhw ac ymyrryd yn gynnar, rwy'n credu bod gwaharddiadau yn rhan sylweddol iawn o hynny, mewn gwirionedd. Mae'n rhaid i ni sicrhau ein bod ni'n trin hyn yn iawn, ac rwy'n credu yn sicr mai'r cyfeiriad yr ydym ni'n mynd iddo yw y bydd gwaharddiadau yn fater, maes o law, a ddaw i mewn i'r system dribiwnlysoedd haen gyntaf, pan sefydlir hi mewn gwirionedd. Ac rwy'n credu y byddai hynny, mae'n debyg, yn cyd-fynd â chanlyniad yr ymgynghoriad a'r sylwadau a gafwyd yn ystod y broses honno o ymgynghori.
Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Adam Price.
The Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Adam Price.
Diolch, Llywydd. Counsel General, you and I have had the opportunity on more than one occasion now to discuss the proposal to introduce a prohibition against deliberate deception by current and prospective Members of the Senedd. Now, that proposal is incorporated in a new section, section 64, of the Elections and Elected Bodies (Wales) Bill, following the committee stage of that Bill last week. You opposed the proposal at committee stage, but I'd be grateful if you could tell the Senedd what the Government now proposes to do at Stage 3 in relation to this proposal. Will you seek to remove it, or will you bring forward amendments to refine it, addressing many of the issues that you raised?
Diolch, Llywydd. Cwnsler Cyffredinol, rydych chi a minnau wedi cael cyfle ar fwy nag un achlysur erbyn hyn i drafod y cynnig i gyflwyno gwaharddiad ar ddichell fwriadol gan Aelodau presennol a darpar Aelodau'r Senedd. Nawr, fe ymgorfforwyd y cynnig hwnnw mewn adran newydd, adran 64, o'r Bil Etholiadau a Chyrff Etholedig (Cymru), yn dilyn cyfnod pwyllgor y Bil hwnnw'r wythnos diwethaf. Fe wnaethoch chi wrthwynebu'r cynnig yn y cyfnod pwyllgor, ond fe fyddwn i'n ddiolchgar pe byddech chi'n dweud wrth y Senedd beth mae'r Llywodraeth yn bwriadu ei wneud yng Nghyfnod 3 o ran y cynnig hwn nawr. A fyddwch chi'n ceisio ei ddiddymu, neu a fyddwch chi'n cyflwyno gwelliannau ar gyfer ei fireinio, a fydd ym mynd i'r afael â llawer o'r materion a godwyd gennych chi?
Well, thank you for that. On the amendment, as you will know from the contributions I made during that Stage 2 session, I have very serious concerns about that, in connection with whether it will be in competence, together with the issue of the rule of law, the clarity of the legislation, the capacity for it to be implemented, the creation of potentially a criminal offence where there has been no engagement or proper consultation, and so on. I will be, certainly, analysing the amendment that was made. I will be giving consideration to it, and I will certainly be coming forward with a view prior to Stage 3, which I think is around about 17 or 18 June. But, you are aware of the views that I have on it.
What options may be open to the Welsh Government to either improve it or ensure the efficacy of the legislation are still under consideration. As you know, my preferred direction would be that this is a matter, together with the issue of recall, that would be best considered and explored by the Standards of Conduct Committee, which has actually started that work. My primary objective is not in terms of the intention of what that amendment is, but what is the actual best way to create law that is good law but is also effective law. I have considerable doubts over the nature of that part of the legislative amendment that was made, but it's still under my consideration.
Wel, diolch i chi am hynna. O ran y gwelliant, fel gwyddoch chi o'r cyfraniadau a wnes i yn ystod y sesiwn Cyfnod 2 hwnnw, mae gennyf i bryderon difrifol iawn ynghylch hynny, o ran a fydd yn gymwys, ynghyd â mater rheolaeth y gyfraith, eglurder y ddeddfwriaeth, y gallu i honno gael ei gweithredu, creu trosedd o bosib pan na fu unrhyw ymgysylltiad nac ymgynghoriad priodol, ac ati. Fe fyddaf i, yn sicr, yn dadansoddi'r gwelliant a wnaethpwyd. Fe fyddaf i'n rhoi ystyriaeth iddo, ac yn sicr fe fyddaf i'n mynegi barn cyn Cyfnod 3, a ddaw o gwmpas 17 neu 18 o fis Mehefin rwy'n credu. Ond rydych chi'n ymwybodol o'r safbwyntiau sydd gennyf i ynglŷn â hyn.
Mae'r dewisiadau a allai fod ar gael i Lywodraeth Cymru naill ai ar gyfer gwelliant neu sicrhau y bydd effeithiolrwydd y ddeddfwriaeth yn parhau i fod dan ystyriaeth. Fel gwyddoch chi, fy hoff gyfeiriad i fyddai i hwn fod yn fater, ynghyd â mater adalw, y byddai'n well iddynt gael eu hystyried a'u harchwilio gan y Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad, a ddechreuodd y gwaith hwnnw mewn gwirionedd. Nid fy mhrif amcan i yw o ran beth yw bwriad y gwelliant hwnnw, ond beth yw'r ffordd orau i lunio cyfraith sy'n gyfraith dda ond sy'n gyfraith effeithiol hefyd. Mae gennyf i lawer o amheuon ynghylch natur y rhan honno o'r gwelliant deddfwriaethol a wnaethpwyd, ond mae hi'n parhau i gael ei hystyried gennyf.
In your comments last week at committee stage, you said that the Government had not yet produced a comprehensive, deep-delve—I think that was your phrase, Counsel General—legal analysis of the proposal. We have discussed it on many occasions now, but that analysis to date has not been conducted, you said. You've provided again, I think, a short summary of the areas where you think there are concerns, but will you now be commissioning that comprehensive legal analysis from the Government's legal advisers? And, in order to facilitate the widest possible parliamentary and, indeed, public scrutiny of the proposal and the Government's interpretation of it, will you be publishing that legal analysis so that we can have a shared basis for understanding where the Government has identified issues that we need to resolve at Stage 3?
Yn eich sylwadau'r wythnos diwethaf yn y cyfnod pwyllgor, roeddech chi'n dweud nad oedd y Llywodraeth wedi cynhyrchu archwiliad dwfn cynhwysfawr eto—rwy'n credu mai dyna oedd eich ymadrodd chi, Cwnsler Cyffredinol—dadansoddiad cyfreithiol o'r cynnig. Rydym ni wedi trafod hynny droeon erbyn hyn, ond ni chafodd y dadansoddiad hwnnw ei gynnal hyd yn hyn, meddwch chi. Rydych chi wedi rhoi crynodeb byr o'r meysydd y ceir pryderon ynddyn nhw, ond a fyddwch chi nawr yn comisiynu'r dadansoddiad cyfreithiol cynhwysfawr hwnnw gan gynghorwyr cyfreithiol y Llywodraeth? Ac, ar gyfer hwyluso'r gwaith craffu seneddol ac yn wir, cyhoeddus ehangaf posibl, ar y cynnig a dehongliad y Llywodraeth ohono, a wnewch chi gyhoeddi'r dadansoddiad cyfreithiol hwnnw er mwyn i ni fod â sail gyffredin i ddeall ym mha le y mae'r Llywodraeth wedi nodi'r materion y mae angen i ni eu datrys yng Nghyfnod 3?
Well, thank you for those comments. Of course, when the amendment came in, there was barely a couple of days' notice to actually give consideration to that. So, it is a concern to have significant legislation that comes in that has not already had that detailed work done on it or that earlier scrutiny, and that is one of my concerns about making an amendment such as this on the back of a piece of legislation within a couple of days. Those issues of competence that I want to explore are issues to do with the Perjury Act 1911. They're also to do with the Human Rights Act 1998. There are also some rule-of-law issues.
Now, I'd be very careful in terms of how I consider the issue of competence because, firstly, I have to form a view on it. But, secondly, I also have a particular function at the end of a piece of legislation, as Counsel General, which I conduct independent of Government, which I can only exercise once legislation has been concluded, which is whether or not to refer it to the Supreme Court, or whether it might be referred by the Attorney General to the Supreme Court. In which case, I have to take a position on it at that particular stage. That's why, really, I have the concern about the nature of such a significant amendment, creating a criminal offence that has not been subject to any of the normal engagements or scrutiny of that. And, of course, don't forget, if the matter were referred to the Supreme Court, it is very unlikely this Bill would be able to come into force for the 2026 election. So, that is also a consideration I have in how this legislation should pursue through Stage 3.
Wel, diolch i chi am y sylwadau yna. Wrth gwrs, pan ddaeth y gwelliant i mewn, prin y cafwyd ychydig ddyddiau o rybudd i roi ystyriaeth i hwnnw mewn gwirionedd. Felly, mae hi'n bryder bod â deddfwriaeth sylweddol yn cael ei chyflwyno heb i'r gwaith manwl hwnnw gael ei wneud arni eisoes na'r craffu cyn hynny chwaith, a dyna un o'm pryderon i ynghylch gwneud gwelliant fel hyn ar gefn darn o ddeddfwriaeth o fewn cwpl o ddiwrnodau. Mae'r materion hynny o ran cymhwysedd yr wyf i'n awyddus i'w hystyried yn faterion sy'n ymwneud â Deddf Anudon 1911. Maen nhw'n ymwneud â Deddf Hawliau Dynol 1998 hefyd. Mae yna rai materion o ran rheolaeth y gyfraith hefyd.
Nawr, rwyf i am fod yn ofalus iawn o ran sut y byddaf i'n ystyried mater cymhwysedd oherwydd, yn gyntaf, mae'n rhaid i mi ffurfio barn ar hynny. Ond, yn ail, mae gen i swyddogaeth benodol ar ddiwedd darn o ddeddfwriaeth, yn Gwnsler Cyffredinol, yr wyf i'n ei gwneud yn annibynnol ar y Llywodraeth, na allaf ei hymarfer ond ar ôl i'r ddeddfwriaeth gael ei chwblhau, sef p'un ai i'w chyfeirio at y Goruchaf Lys ai peidio, neu a ellid ei chyfeirio gan y Twrnai Cyffredinol i'r Goruchaf Lys. Os felly, mae'n rhaid i mi gymryd safbwynt ar hynny ar y cam penodol hwnnw. Dyna pam, mewn gwirionedd, y mae gennyf i'r pryderon am natur gwelliant mor sylweddol, sy'n creu trosedd nad yw wedi bod yn destun unrhyw un o'r prosesau ymgysylltu neu graffu arferol ar gyfer pethau o'r fath. Ac, wrth gwrs, peidied neb ag anghofio, pe bai'r mater yn cael ei gyfeirio at y Goruchaf Lys, mae hi'n annhebygol iawn y byddai'r Bil hwn yn gallu dod i rym ar gyfer etholiad 2026. Felly, mae honno hefyd yn ystyriaeth i mi o ran sut y dylai'r ddeddfwriaeth hon fynd ar ei hynt drwy Gyfnod 3.
I'd just point out to the Counsel General that 18 June will be the fourth formal opportunity for the Senedd to be discussing this proposal. This is what Parliaments do—they amend Government Bills, and probably we should do it more often.
Does he not accept that the infected blood inquiry, in the most horrifically graphic way, has shown that there is a culture of lying and cover-up in politics? And there's an asymmetry of suffering at the moment, because the politicians who lie face no consequences, but the people who are victims of those lies face the most terrible consequences, and that's what we're trying to change with this proposal. Could I suggest to him, given that context, and in the current climate of public opinion, it would do no good at all to the reputation of this Government if you were to seek to remove a proposal to ban, to prohibit lying in politics? So, instead of doing that, work with us on a cross-party basis to get this right, because it's what the public want to see.
Fe garwn i dynnu sylw'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol at y ffaith mai 18 Mehefin fydd y pedwerydd cyfle ffurfiol i'r Senedd drafod y cynnig hwn. Dyma'r hyn y mae Seneddau yn ei wneud—maen nhw'n diwygio Biliau'r Llywodraeth, ac mae hi'n debyg y dylem ni wneud hynny'n fwy rheolaidd.
Onid yw ef yn derbyn bod yr ymchwiliad i waed heintiedig, yn y ffordd fwyaf graffig ac erchyll, wedi dangos bod diwylliant o ddweud celwydd a chelu mewn gwleidyddiaeth? Ac mae yna anghymesuredd o ddioddefaint ar hyn o bryd, oherwydd nid yw'r gwleidyddion sy'n dweud celwydd yn wynebu unrhyw ganlyniadau, ond mae'r bobl sy'n dioddef oherwydd y rhain yn wynebu'r canlyniadau mwyaf ofnadwy, a dyna'r hyn yr ydym ni'n ceisio ei newid gyda'r cynnig hwn. A gaf i roi awgrym iddo, o ystyried y cyd-destun hwnnw, ac yn hinsawdd bresennol y farn gyhoeddus, ni fyddai hi'n gwneud unrhyw les o gwbl i enw da'r Llywodraeth hon pe byddech chi'n ceisio diddymu cynnig i wahardd, i nadu dweud celwydd ym myd gwleidyddiaeth? Felly, yn lle gwneud hynny, gweithiwch gyda ni ar sail drawsbleidiol i wneud hyn yn iawn, oherwydd dyna'r hyn y mae'r cyhoedd yn awyddus i'w weld.
I certainly agree with that latter point, which is why I actually think that, in the area in terms of issues of recall, in the issues of standards, and the issue in terms of deception, having a properly considered piece of legislation and scrutinised piece of legislation, and legislation that has properly engaged people and relevant parties and stakeholders as well, is actually the most effective way of achieving legislation that actually works.
Now, you're absolutely right—in terms of events, whether it by Hillsborough, whether it be the calls in terms of Orgreave, whether it be in terms of the contaminated blood, Horizon and so on—that what is needed is really what my colleague Jack Sargeant has asked for, and that is a statutory duty of candour. What I'm concerned with is an amendment on legislation that purports to resolve a problem but, actually, solely amounts to little more than bad and ineffective law. That's my concern—that we see something as a quick, silver-bullet solution, but turns out, once it is scrutinised, to be nothing of the sort. So, I think it's very, very important in this place that the legislation that we do on such important matters is legislation that will actually work, that will actually be effective and that will actually deliver what we want it to do. I have considerable doubt whether the amendment that was passed actually overcomes those particular hurdles.
Rwy'n sicr yn cytuno â'r pwynt olaf yna, a dyna pam rwy'n credu mewn gwirionedd, yn y maes hwn o ran materion adalw, ym materion safonau, a'r materion o ddichell, y dylid cael darn o ddeddfwriaeth a ystyriwyd yn briodol a darn o ddeddfwriaeth a fu'n destun craffu, a deddfwriaeth sydd wedi ymgysylltu yn briodol â phobl a phleidiau a rhanddeiliaid perthnasol hefyd, a honno fyddai'r ffordd fwyaf effeithiol o gyflawni deddfwriaeth sy'n gweithio mewn gwirionedd.
Nawr, rydych chi'n hollol gywir—o ran digwyddiadau, boed hynny'n Hillsborough, boed yn alwadau o ran Orgreave, boed hynny o ran y gwaed heintiedig, Horizon ac ati—mai'r hyn sydd ei angen mewn gwirionedd yw'r hyn y gofynnodd fy nghyd-Aelod Jack Sargeant amdano, a hynny yw dyletswydd gonestrwydd statudol. Yr hyn sy'n peri pryder i mi yw gwelliant i ddeddfwriaeth sy'n honni ei fod yn datrys problem ond, mewn gwirionedd, nid yw'n llawer gwell na chyfraith ddrwg ac aneffeithiol. Hwnnw yw fy mhryder i—ein bod ni'n gweld rhywbeth fel ateb cyflym, yn fwled hud, ond yn y diwedd, wrth graffu ar y peth, nid yw'n ddim o'r fath. Felly, rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n bwysig dros ben fod y ddeddfwriaeth a luniwn ni yn y lle hwn ar faterion mor bwysig yn ddeddfwriaeth a fydd yn gweithio mewn gwirionedd, a fydd yn effeithiol mewn gwirionedd ac a fydd yn cyflawni'r hyn yr ydym ni awyddus iddi wneud mewn gwirionedd. Mae cryn amheuon gennyf i a yw'r gwelliant a basiwyd yn goresgyn y rhwystrau hynny.
3. Pa wersi y mae'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol yn credu y gellid eu dysgu o etholiadau diweddar Comisiynydd yr Heddlu a Throseddu ynghylch sut i ymgysylltu'n well â'r cyhoedd mewn etholiadau? OQ61135
3. What lessons does the Counsel General consider could be learned from the recent Police and Crime Commissioner elections about how to better engage the public in elections? OQ61135
Thank you for your question. Not unexpectedly, turnout at the recent police and crime commissioner elections in Wales was low. Of the numerous reasons for this, poor public engagement around these elections is obvious. To strengthen public engagement in elections more broadly, I'm taking forward legislation to improve access to information and break down the barriers to participation.
Diolch i chi am eich cwestiwn. Nid yn annisgwyl, roedd y niferoedd a wnaeth bleidleisio yn etholiadau'r comisiynwyr heddlu a throseddu diweddar yng Nghymru yn isel iawn. Ymhlith y rhesymau niferus am hynny, roedd ymgysylltiad aneffeithiol â'r cyhoedd ynghylch yr etholiadau hyn yn un amlwg. Ar gyfer cryfhau ymgysylltiad y cyhoedd ag etholiadau yn fwy eang, rwyf i am gyflwyno deddfwriaeth i wella argaeledd gwybodaeth a goresgyn y rhwystrau rhag cyfranogi.
Diolch, Cwnsler Cyffredinol. I'm glad you mentioned breaking down barriers to participation, because that was going to be my supplementary question with regard to the introduction of voter ID. I think it's fair to say that the introduction has been done in a chaotic manner and without any real logic. You're able to vote with an older person's bus pass, but not a young person's bus pass. You can use some passports, such as UK, EU and Commonwealth passports, but not any others. There were some reports of those with Bangladeshi and Pakistani passports being incorrectly turned away at English local elections. Polling staff themselves might be unsure of the rules. And when it comes to a person's right to vote, it's essential that we get it right. Has the Welsh Government been gathering data on the impact of voter ID, and whether there has been a racial disparity with those turned away from the ballot box? Diolch yn fawr.
Diolch, Cwnsler Cyffredinol. Rwy'n falch eich bod chi wedi sôn am chwalu'r rhwystrau rhag cyfranogi, oherwydd dyna fydd fy nghwestiwn atodol o ran cyflwyno dogfennau adnabod pleidleiswyr. Rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n deg dweud bod cyflwyno'r rhain wedi bod yn anniben heb unrhyw resymeg wirioneddol. Fe gewch chi bleidleisio gyda phas bws unigolyn hŷn, ond nid gyda phas bws unigolyn ifanc. Fe gewch chi ddefnyddio rhai pasbortau, fel pasbortau'r DU, yr UE a'r Gymanwlad, ond nid unrhyw un arall. Roedd rhai adroddiadau bod rhai â phasbortau o Bangladesh a Pacistan yn cael eu gwrthod ar gam mewn etholiadau lleol yn Lloegr. Efallai fod y staff pleidleisio eu hunain yn ansicr o'r rheolau. Ac o ran hawl unigolyn i bleidleisio, mae hi'n hanfodol ein bod ni'n gwneud cyfiawnder â hynny. A yw Llywodraeth Cymru wedi bod yn casglu data ar effaith dogfennau adnabod pleidleiswyr, ac a fu gwahaniaeth ar sail hil o ran y rhai a wrthodwyd rhag bwrw eu pleidlais? Diolch yn fawr.
Well, thank you for this ongoing issue. Of course, there has been a lot of comment on the recent council elections, particularly in England. Of course, the police and crime commissioner elections in Wales had very low turnout, because they were the sole elections, where actually the candidates have no support in terms of putting out publicity and material and information to electors. So, any analysis of how things happened in Wales will obviously be something of interest. We may learn more lessons from what happened in England, where we know, last time, there were at least 14,000 who were turned away from elections; others who were turned away and came back; and others, I suspect, who didn't bother going out to vote at all on the presumption that they didn't have the necessary ID. I do remember the former Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, of course said, of ID cards, that he would tear it up and he would eat it with his cornflakes. Well, he must have done that, because he turned up to vote, didn't have an ID card, and they sent him home.
More troubling, of course, is concern over people like the veteran who turned up with his veteran ID and it wasn't accepted, and of course there are many students who have ID cards, but for some reason—we can only imagine why—student ID cards are not acceptable. So, there is very real concern about that and the ID card system and the impact that it has. As you know, Welsh Government's position is one that is oriented towards removing hurdles for participation in elections. And we know, from the comments that were made by the former Conservative Minister Rees-Mogg, that this was a measure that was introduced with the objective of actually restricting ability to participate in voting—an idea that has come from the voter suppression tactics of America. But what I can assure you is that when there is further analysis from the Electoral Commission—I do meet with them periodically—this will be one of the issues we will want to consider. But also we will want to consider in respect of how, in devolved Welsh elections when they take place, there isn't confusion for people as to their entitlement and ability to vote in Welsh elections without ID cards.
Wel, diolch i chi am godi'r mater parhaus hwn. Wrth gwrs, mae llawer o sôn wedi bod am etholiadau'r cynghorau diweddar, yn enwedig yn Lloegr. Wrth gwrs, isel iawn oedd nifer y pleidleiswyr yn etholiadau'r comisiynwyr heddlu a throseddu yng Nghymru, am mai nhw oedd yr unig etholiadau, ac nid oedd gan yr ymgeiswyr unrhyw gefnogaeth o ran rhannu cyhoeddusrwydd a deunydd a gwybodaeth ar gyfer etholwyr. Felly, fe fydd unrhyw ddadansoddiad o sut ddigwyddodd pethau yng Nghymru yn rhywbeth o ddiddordeb, yn amlwg. Efallai y byddwn ni'n dysgu rhagor o wersi o'r hyn a ddigwyddodd yn Lloegr, lle gwyddom ni, y tro diwethaf, fod o leiaf 14,000 wedi cael eu gwrthod rhag pleidleisio yn yr etholiadau; cafodd rhai eraill eu troi i ffwrdd a dod yn ôl wedyn; ac eraill, rwy'n amau, nad aethon nhw i'r drafferth i fynd allan i bleidleisio o gwbl am eu bod yn rhagdybio nad oedd y cardiau adnabod angenrheidiol ganddyn nhw. Rwy'n cofio'r cyn-Brif Weinidog, Boris Johnson, wrth gwrs, o ran cerdyn adnabod, y byddai ef yn ei rwygo yn ddarnau a'i fwyta gyda'i rawnfwyd i frecwast. Wel, mae'n rhaid ei fod ef wedi gwneud felly, oherwydd fe ddaeth i bleidleisio, nid oedd cerdyn adnabod ganddo, ac fe wnaethon nhw ei anfon ef adref.
Testun gofid llawer mwy, wrth gwrs, yw'r pryder bod pobl fel y cyn-filwr a gyflwynodd ei gerdyn adnabod cyn-filwr ac na chafodd ei dderbyn, ac wrth gwrs mae yna lawer o fyfyrwyr sydd â chardiau adnabod, ond am ryw reswm—ni allwn ni ond dychmygu pam—na chafodd y cardiau adnabod myfyrwyr eu derbyn. Felly, mae pryder gwirioneddol am hynny a'r system o gardiau adnabod a'r effaith y mae hynny'n ei chael. Fel gwyddoch chi, mae safbwynt Llywodraeth Cymru yn un sy'n canolbwyntio ar godi'r rhwystrau rhag cyfranogi mewn etholiadau. Ac fe wyddom ni, o'r sylwadau a wnaeth y cyn-Weinidog Ceidwadol Rees-Mogg, mai mesur oedd hwn a gyflwynwyd gyda'r amcan o gyfyngu ar allu pobl i gyfranogi yn y pleidleisio—syniad a ddeilliodd o dactegau Americanaidd o atal pleidleiswyr. Ond yr hyn y gallaf eich sicrhau chi yw, pan fydd dadansoddiad pellach gan y Comisiwn Etholiadol—rwy'n cyfarfod â hwnnw o bryd i'w gilydd—fe fydd hwn yn un o'r materion y byddwn ni'n awyddus i'w ystyried. Ond fe fyddwn ni'n awyddus hefyd i ystyried sut i atal dryswch i bobl yn yr etholiadau datganoledig yng Nghymru pan gynhelir y rheiny, ac atal dryswch i bobl o ran eu hawl a'u gallu i bleidleisio yn etholiadau Cymru heb gardiau adnabod.
I disagree with the Counsel General. He said turnout was low; I'd say it was very low. There was a lack of interest in the election. People who vote in all other elections stayed at home. It was possibly the first ever election where people voting by post outnumbered those voting in person. There was confusion over what police and crime commissioners are responsible for. Does the Counsel General agree with me that the major cause of people not voting was the absence of party literature, especially when the police and crime commissioners cover such a large area, and it is very difficult to be well known in that very large area? Will the Counsel General press for freepost delivery for all candidates at the next election? That’s how democracy works.
Rwy'n anghytuno â'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol. Fe ddywedodd ef mai niferoedd bychain a bleidleisiodd; fe ddywedwn i mai bychain iawn oedden nhw. Roedd diffyg diddordeb yn yr etholiad. Arhosodd pobl gartref a fyddant fel arfer yn pleidleisio ym mhob etholiad arall. Mae hi'n bosibl mai hwn oedd yr etholiad cyntaf erioed i'r rhai a bleidleisiodd drwy'r post fod yn fwy niferus na'r rhai a bleidleisiodd yn y cnawd. Roedd dryswch ynghylch yr hyn y mae comisiynwyr heddlu a throseddu yn gyfrifol amdano. A yw'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol yn cytuno â mi mai prif achos prinder pobl yn pleidleisio oedd absenoldeb unrhyw lenyddiaeth gan y pleidiau, yn enwedig pan fo'r comisiynwyr heddlu a throseddu yn cwmpasu ardal mor eang, ac mae hi'n anodd iawn bod yn adnabyddus yn yr ardal eang honno? A fydd y Cwnsler Cyffredinol yn pwyso am lythyru rhadbost i bob ymgeisydd yn yr etholiad nesaf? Fel yna mae democratiaeth yn gweithio.
You make an extremely important point. The fact that you have an election that’s been established for police and crime commissioners who have a particular function to carry out, and unlike any other election, where candidates have the right to a certain amount of literature, police and crime commissioners have none. It seems to me a fundamental reason for councillors and Senedd Members and MPs to have a certain number of freeposts, is because it’s important that people know who the candidates are, know what they are standing for, any manifesto issues they have, so it’s part of good democratic process. It can only be bad democratic process if you have candidates who people don’t actually know who they are, are not entitled to receive any facilitated literature or information about them, and it undermines the democratic process and confidence in it, so I agree with you entirely. Of course police and crime commissioners are not devolved; well, not yet devolved, and hopefully, if they were devolved, we would be able to resolve this. But I can assure you, taking on board what you say, we do have an inter-ministerial group on elections. I think one of those is due imminently and those are points that I will make at that particular meeting.
Rydych chi'n gwneud pwynt pwysig iawn. Y ffaith eich bod yn cynnal etholiad a sefydlwyd ar gyfer comisiynwyr heddlu a throseddu sydd â swyddogaeth benodol i'w chyflawni, ac yn wahanol i unrhyw etholiad arall, lle mae gan ymgeiswyr hawl i gynhyrchu cyfran benodol o lenyddiaeth, nid oes gan gomisiynwyr heddlu a throsedd unrhyw beth o'r fath. Mae hi'n ymddangos i mi ei fod yn rheswm sylfaenol i gynghorwyr ac Aelodau'r Senedd ac Aelodau Senedd San Steffan gael cyfran benodol o radbost, oherwydd ei bod hi'n bwysig fod pobl yn gwybod pwy yw'r ymgeiswyr, yn gwybod dros beth y maen nhw'n sefyll, ac unrhyw faterion maniffesto sydd ganddyn nhw, felly mae honno'n rhan o broses ddemocrataidd dda. Dim ond proses ddemocrataidd wael all hi fod os oes gennych chi ymgeiswyr nad yw pobl yn gwybod pwy ydyn nhw mewn gwirionedd, nad oes ganddyn nhw hawl i dderbyn unrhyw lenyddiaeth neu wybodaeth amdanyn nhw, ac mae hynny'n tanseilio'r broses ddemocrataidd a'r hyder sydd ynddi, ac felly rwy'n cytuno yn llwyr â chi. Wrth gwrs, nid yw comisiynwyr heddlu a throseddu wedi cael eu datganoli; wel, heb eu datganoli eto, ac rwy'n gobeithio, pe bydden nhw'n cael eu datganoli, fe fyddem ni'n gallu datrys hyn. Ond fe allaf eich sicrhau chi, gan ystyried yr hyn yr ydych chi'n ei ddweud, mae gennym ni grŵp rhyng-weinidogol ar etholiadau. Rwy'n credu bod un o'r rhain yn dod yn fuan iawn ac fe fyddaf i'n gwneud y pwyntiau hyn yn y cyfarfod arbennig hwnnw.
Thank you.
Diolch i chi.
Cwestiwn 4, Rhys ab Owen. [Torri ar draws.]
Question 4, Rhys ab Owen. [Interruption.]
No, no point of order; not at this point, we're in the middle of questions.
Na, dim pwynt o drefn; nid ar yr adeg hon, rydym ni ar ganol cwestiynau.
Cwestiwn 4, Rhys ab Owen.
Question 4, Rhys ab Owen.
4. Pa gyngor y mae'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol wedi'i roi i Lywodraeth Cymru ynghylch bwriad Llywodraeth y DU i ddefnyddio ei phwerau o dan Ddeddf Marchnad Fewnol y Deyrnas Unedig i rwystro gwydr rhag cael ei gynnwys yn y cynllun dychwelyd ernes? OQ61136
4. What advice has the Counsel General provided to the Welsh Government regarding the UK Government’s intention to use its powers under the United Kingdom Internal Market Act to block glass from being included in the deposit-return scheme? OQ61136
Thank you for your question. The Welsh Government remains of the view that the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 is offensive to Wales as it seeks to severely undermine the powers of the democratically elected Senedd. The issues with the deposit-return scheme are yet another example of the problems with this piece of legislation.
Diolch i chi am eich cwestiwn. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn dal i fod o'r farn fod Deddf Marchnad Fewnol y Deyrnas Unedig 2020 yn dramgwyddus i Gymru gan ei bod yn ceisio tanseilio pwerau'r Senedd a etholwyd yn ddemocrataidd. Mae'r problemau gyda'r cynllun dychwelyd ernes yn enghraifft arall o'r problemau gyda'r darn hwn o ddeddfwriaeth.
Diolch, Cwnsler Cyffredinol. I agree with you and agree with what Huw Irranca-Davies wrote last month in his written statement that this is another example of misuse of the internal market Act by the Westminster Government. Devolution should allow us to explore new ideas, but the UK Government doesn’t seem to share this aspiration for Wales. Instead, something as simple as including glass in a recycling scheme is turned into a political football. It’s a shame that the deposit-return scheme had to be delayed by the Welsh Government until 2027 in order to match the UK Government’s timeline, especially when we really do need to encourage recycling now more than ever; waterways are being polluted with rubbish, beaches are tainted with plastics and the smell of landfill is harming people’s health, as Paul Davies raised recently with regard to the Withyhedge landfill site. Therefore, will the Welsh Government be considering legal action in the event that a deposit-return scheme is blocked by the UK Government? Diolch.
Diolch, Cwnsler Cyffredinol. Rwy'n cytuno â chi ac yn cytuno â'r hyn a ysgrifennodd Huw Irranca-Davies fis diwethaf yn ei ddatganiad ysgrifenedig ef sef bod hon yn enghraifft arall o gamddefnyddio Deddf y Farchnad Fewnol gan Lywodraeth San Steffan. Fe ddylai datganoli ein galluogi ni i archwilio syniadau newydd, ond nid yw hi'n ymddangos bod Llywodraeth y DU yn rhannu'r dyhead hwn i Gymru. Yn hytrach, mae rhywbeth mor syml â chynnwys gwydr mewn cynllun ailgylchu yn cael ei droi yn bêl-droed wleidyddol. Mae hi'n drueni ei bod hi'n rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru ohirio'r cynllun dychwelyd ernes tan 2027 ar gyfer cyd-fynd ag amserlen Llywodraeth y DU, yn arbennig pan fo taer angen i ni annog ailgylchu nawr yn fwy nag erioed; mae dyfrffyrdd yn cael eu llygru gyda sbwriel, mae traethau yn cael eu halogi â phlastigau ac mae arogl tirlenwi yn niweidio iechyd pobl, fel cododd Paul Davies hynny'n ddiweddar o ran safle tirlenwi Withyhedge. Felly, a wnaiff Llywodraeth Cymru ystyried camau cyfreithiol os bydd Llywodraeth y DU yn rhwystro cynllun dychwelyd ernes? Diolch.
Again, thank you for your question. The issue of legal action—I’ll take that last point first—of course, is one where we took legal action and, of course, we had the single-use plastics legislation that went forward and, of course, the UK Government chose not to challenge that. I think it upheld, de facto, our position in respect of the supremacy of our constitutional statutes over the internal market Act, which is the issue between us, that it does not have the capacity to change the core constitutional protected legislation.
Now, on this particular issue, in terms of the deposit-return scheme, well, of course, our policy is to introduce a deposit-return scheme. The problem with it is that the UK Government have appointed themselves as judge and jury for the internal market Act, which is not how you would achieve effective regulation of a single market. As you know, we have common frameworks that have been achieved and arrived at through co-operation between the four nations of the UK, and the problem with the internal market Act is that it enables UK Government to drive a coach and horses through that.
Now, agreement had actually been reached with the UK Government in terms of the inclusion of a glass deposit-return scheme. It was agreed between the nations. Scotland, in fact, was very advanced in the implementation of that, but it was the UK Government that, having agreed a common way of moving forward on this, chose to diverge from what had been a collectively agreed position that had been consulted upon.
So, our preference remains for a fully aligned scheme across the UK, as previously agreed. However, we note the threat that the UK Government have made to repeat their actions in bringing down the scheme in Scotland by using the internal market Act to restrict our ability to go further and impose a watered-down deposit-return scheme. I think that misusing the internal market Act to stop Welsh Government and other Governments from bringing forward an effective deposit-return scheme, which would have been very much within competence, is something that is extremely unfortunate. We are intending to go forward with this; there is still work that is ongoing. There are certainly benefits from a deposit-return scheme. It does make it much more difficult with the position that the UK Government have taken in respect of England, and, obviously, this is a matter that remains, as I said, under consideration.
Unwaith eto, diolch i chi am eich cwestiwn. Mater y camau cyfreithiol—rwyf i am ymdrin â'r pwynt olaf hwnnw'n gyntaf—wrth gwrs, dyma un y gwnaethom ni gymryd camau cyfreithiol ac, wrth gwrs, roedd gennym ni'r ddeddfwriaeth blastig untro a gafodd ei chyflwyno, wrth gwrs, fe ddewisodd Llywodraeth y DU beidio â herio honno. Rwy'n credu bod hynny'n cadarnhau, mewn gwirionedd, ein safbwynt ni o ran goruchafiaeth ein statudau cyfansoddiadol dros Ddeddf y farchnad fewnol, sef y ddadl sydd rhyngom, nad yw'r gallu ganddi i newid y ddeddfwriaeth warchodedig gyfansoddiadol graidd.
Nawr, ynglŷn â'r mater penodol hwn, o ran y cynllun dychwelyd ernes, wel, wrth gwrs, ein polisi ni yw cyflwyno cynllun dychwelyd ernes. Y broblem gyda hynny yw bod Llywodraeth y DU wedi ei phenodi eu hun yn farnwr ac yn rheithgor i'r Ddeddf marchnad fewnol, ac nid dyna sut y byddech chi'n sicrhau rheoleiddio marchnad unigol yn effeithiol. Fel gwyddoch chi, mae gennym fframweithiau cyffredin a gyflawnwyd a'u cyrraedd trwy gydweithrediad rhwng pedair gwlad y DU, a'r broblem gyda Deddf y Farchnad Fewnol yw ei bod yn caniatáu i Lywodraeth y DU ddiystyru hynny'n llwyr.
Nawr, daethpwyd i gytundeb â Llywodraeth y DU mewn gwirionedd o ran cynnwys cynllun dychwelyd ernes ar gyfer gwydr. Cytunwyd ar hynny rhwng y gwledydd. Roedd yr Alban, mewn gwirionedd, yn ddatblygedig iawn o ran gweithredu hynny, ond Llywodraeth y DU a wnaeth, wedi cytuno ar ffordd o symud ymlaen gyda'n gilydd yn hyn o beth, ymwahanu o'r hyn y cytunwyd arno ar y cyd a'r safbwynt yr ymgynghorwyd arno.
Felly, ein dewis ni o hyd yw cynllun sy'n alinio'n gyfan gwbl ledled y DU, fel y cytunwyd yn flaenorol. Serch hynny, rydym ni'n nodi'r bygythiad a wnaeth Llywodraeth y DU i ailadrodd eu camau wrth ddiddymu'r cynllun yn yr Alban trwy ddefnyddio Deddf y Farchnad Fewnol i gyfyngu ar ein gallu i fynd ymhellach a gorfodi cynllun dychwelyd ernes wedi ei lastwreiddio. Rwy'n credu bod camddefnyddio Deddf y Farchnad Fewnol i atal Llywodraeth Cymru a Llywodraethau eraill rhag cyflwyno cynllun dychwelyd ernes, a fyddai wedi bod o fewn eu cymhwysedd i raddau helaeth, yn rhywbeth hynod anffodus. Rydym ni'n bwriadu bwrw ymlaen â hyn; mae'r gwaith yn parhau i fynd rhagddo. Yn sicr, mae manteision o gynllun dychwelyd ernes. Mae hi'n llawer anos gyda'r safbwynt a gymerodd Llywodraeth y DU o ran Lloegr, ac, yn amlwg, mae hwn yn fater sy'n parhau, fel dywedais i, i fod dan ystyriaeth.
5. Pa gyngor cyfreithiol y mae'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol wedi'i roi i Lywodraeth Cymru ar absenoldeb y diffiniad o ddyn ym Mil Senedd Cymru (Rhestrau Ymgeiswyr Etholiadol)? OQ61127
5. What legal advice has the Counsel General provided to the Welsh Government regarding the absence of a definition of a man in the Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill? OQ61127
The Bill does not use the term 'man'. The quota rules deal with the proportion and placement of women on lists of candidates to be Members of the Senedd. The Bill is not about defining a woman, or defining a man.
Nid yw'r Bil yn defnyddio'r gair 'dyn'. Mae rheolau'r cwota yn ymdrin â chyfran a lleoliad menywod ar restrau'r ymgeiswyr i fod yn Aelodau yn y Senedd. Nid yw'r Bil yn ymwneud â diffinio beth yw menyw, na diffinio beth yw dyn.
So, the Bill being proposed states that at least half the candidates on an electoral list must be women, whereas as explained by the Trefnydd, Jane Hutt, this Bill does not include a definition of 'woman', because the Bill is not about defining a woman. Nor would it appear it is about defining what a man is other than the antithesis of an undefined woman. Perhaps this is good news as the last thing I want to hear is a stumbled, illogical, politicised definition of a man. The issue is that, unlike in other legislation that uses gender quotas, a definition is not necessary, because when they refer to women, it pertains to biological sex, rather than a self-identified gender. Other countries have negated legal challenges because of this fact. It's biological rather than emotional for them. So, why are we any different? Wales is making itself vulnerable to needless legal challenges if candidates falsely identify their gender on electoral lists. Therefore, would the Counsel General agree with me that this ambiguity makes the Welsh electoral system vulnerable to abuse, potentially leading to increased distrust by the public, and thus how will legal challenges to election outcomes based on false statements made by candidates be addressed and mitigated?
Felly, mae'r Bil sy'n cael ei gynnig yn nodi y bydd yn rhaid i o leiaf hanner yr ymgeiswyr ar restr etholiadol fod yn fenywod, ond fel eglurodd y Trefnydd, Jane Hutt, nid yw'r Bil hwn yn cynnwys diffiniad o 'fenyw', gan nad yw'r Bil yn ymwneud â diffinio beth yw menyw. Nid yw'n ymddangos ei fod yn ceisio diffinio beth yw dyn ychwaith heblaw am fod i'r gwrthwyneb i fenyw nas diffinnir. Efallai fod hynny'n newyddion da gan mai'r peth olaf yr wyf i'n dymuno ei glywed yw diffiniad clogyrnaidd, afresymol, wedi ei wleidyddoli o ddyn. Y broblem yw, yn wahanol i ddeddfwriaeth arall sy'n defnyddio cwotâu rhywedd, nid oes angen diffiniad, oherwydd wrth gyfeirio at fenywod, yr ystyr yw rhyw biolegol, yn hytrach na rhywedd hunan-adnabod. Mae gwledydd eraill wedi dirymu heriau cyfreithiol oherwydd y ffaith hon. Rhywbeth biolegol yn hytrach nag emosiynol yw hwn iddyn nhw. Pam ydym ni'n wahanol? Mae Cymru yn ei rhoi ei hun yn agored i heriau cyfreithiol diangen os bydd ymgeiswyr yn nodi eu rhywedd yn anghywir ar restrau etholiadol. Felly, a fyddai'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol yn cytuno â mi bod yr amwysedd hwn yn rhoi system etholiadol Cymru yn agored i gamdriniaeth, a allai arwain at ddiffyg ymddiriedaeth cynyddol gan y cyhoedd, ac felly sut bydd heriau cyfreithiol i ganlyniadau etholiadau ar sail datganiadau ffug a wnaeth ymgeiswyr yn cael eu trin a'u lliniaru?
Thank you for the well-intended question. I'm not sure where your confusion arises or where the purported ambiguity arises. As I say, the purpose of this Bill is to work towards a more effective Senedd, achieve some better gender balance. The Bill sets out rules in respect of proportion and placement of women on party lists, as the under-represented majority in this Senedd, as you obviously know from the under-representation of women within the Conservative Party group.
Gender quotas are a mainstream mechanism; they're used in many countries across the world to strengthen democratic institutions. Over 130 countries, more than half of the world's nations, have some form of gender quotas. The rules have been designed to accord with the electoral system proposed in the Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill and existing rules with regard to nominations that involve candidates providing accurate personal information. It'll be for candidates and parties to ensure that the statements they make alongside other personal information required as part of the nominations process are accurate. But, perhaps just to repeat again, the quota rules only deal with the proportion and placement of women on lists, the Bill does not use the term 'man', and so no definition is required. The Bill is not about gender recognition.
Diolch i chi am y cwestiwn o fwriad da. Nid wyf i'n siŵr beth yw tarddiad eich dryswch chi nac ym mha le y mae'r amwysedd honedig yn codi. Fel dywedais i, bwriad y Bil hwn yw gweithio tuag at Senedd sy'n fwy effeithiol a sicrhau cydbwysedd rhywedd gwell. Mae'r Bil yn nodi rheolau o ran cyfran a lleoliad menywod ar restrau pleidiau, sef y mwyafrif nad yw'n cael ei gynrychioli yn ddigonol yn y Senedd hon, fel gwyddoch chi'n amlwg oherwydd cynrychiolaeth annigonol menywod yng ngrŵp y Blaid Geidwadol.
Mae cwotâu rhywedd yn fecanwaith prif ffrwd; maen nhw'n cael eu defnyddio mewn llawer o wledydd yn fyd-eang i atgyfnerthu sefydliadau democrataidd. Mae gan dros 130 o wledydd, mwy na hanner o wledydd y byd, gwotâu rhywedd o ryw fath. Fe gaiff y rheolau eu cynllunio i gydweddu â'r system etholiadol a gynigiwyd ym Mil Senedd Cymru (Aelodau ac Etholiadau) a'r rheolau presennol o ran enwebiadau sy'n golygu ymgeiswyr yn nodi gwybodaeth bersonol yn fanwl gywir. Mater i ymgeiswyr a phleidiau fydd sicrhau bod y datganiadau a wnân nhw ochr yn ochr â chywirdeb gwybodaeth bersonol arall sy'n ofynnol yn rhan o'r broses enwebiadau yn gywir. Ond, efallai dim ond er mwyn ailadrodd eto, mae rheolau'r cwotâu yn ymdrin â chyfran a lleoliad menywod ar restrau yn unig, nid yw'r Bil yn defnyddio'r gair 'dyn', ac felly nid oes angen unrhyw ddiffiniad o hwnnw. Nid yw'r Bil yn ymwneud â chydnabod rhywedd.
6. Pa drafodaethau y mae'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol wedi'u cael gyda'r Comisiwn Etholiadol ynghylch nifer y dinasyddion o Gymru y mae eu henwau ar goll o'r gofrestr etholiadol? OQ61157
6. What discussions has the Counsel General had with the Electoral Commission concerning the number of Welsh citizens whose names are missing from the electoral register? OQ61157
Diolch yn fawr am y cwestiwn.
Thank you very much for the question.
It is estimated that up to 400,000 eligible Welsh citizens may not be properly registered to vote in local government and Senedd elections, and I've raised my concerns with the Electoral Commission. This is one of the reasons that we will be introducing the automatic registration of electors through the Elections and Elected Bodies (Wales) Bill, which has gone through Stage 2 and is now headed towards Stage 3 later on in June.
Amcangyfrifir na fydd hyd at 400,000 efallai o'r dinasyddion cymwys yng Nghymru wedi cofrestru yn briodol i bleidleisio mewn etholiadau llywodraeth leol na Senedd Cymru, ac rwyf i wedi codi fy mhryderon gyda'r Comisiwn Etholiadol. Dyma un o'r rhesymau pam y byddwn ni'n cyflwyno cofrestriad awtomatig o etholwyr drwy'r Bil Etholiadau a Chyrff Etholedig (Cymru), sydd wedi bod trwy Gyfnod 2 ac a fydd yn symud i Gyfnod 3 yn ddiweddarach ym mis Mehefin.
Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (David Rees) i’r Gadair.
The Deputy Presiding Officer (David Rees) took the Chair.
Well, thanks to the Counsel General for that. I listened carefully to the earlier exchange with Rhys ab Owen on ID cards. I think what Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg actually said, Dirprwy Lywydd, was that the Government's ID policy was a failed attempt at gerrymandering, and, on that matter, I think we ought to bow to his expertise. By contrast, your own proposals will tackle that astonishing number of Welsh citizens who never have an opportunity to vote at all. I believe, as I know others in the Chamber do, that taking part in a democratic election is a duty of citizenship, but if 400,000 Welsh citizens aren't even on the register, they never have that opportunity, and the work that you are doing on automatic registration will go a very long way to putting that democratic deficit right. So, I'd be grateful if you could give the Chamber an update on how quickly you think we may be able to make that progress here in Wales.
Wel, diolch i'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol am hynny. Fe wrandawais yn ofalus ar y drafodaeth gyda Rhys ab Owen ar gardiau adnabod yn gynharach. Rwy'n credu mai'r hyn a ddywedodd Syr Jacob Rees-Mogg, mewn gwirionedd, Dirprwy Lywydd, oedd bod polisi'r Llywodraeth ar gardiau adnabod yn ymgais aflwyddiannus i jerimandro, ac, o ran hynny, rwy'n credu y dylen ni ymostwng i'w arbenigedd. I'r gwrthwyneb, bydd eich cynigion chi eich hun yn mynd i'r afael â'r nifer rhyfeddol hwnnw o ddinasyddion Cymru nad ydyn nhw byth yn cael cyfle i bleidleisio o gwbl. Rwy'n credu, fel y gwn fod eraill yn y Siambr yn ei wneud, bod cymryd rhan mewn etholiad democrataidd yn ddyletswydd dinasyddiaeth, ond os nad yw 400,000 o ddinasyddion Cymru hyd yn oed ar y gofrestr, fyddan nhw byth yn cael y cyfle hwnnw, a bydd y gwaith rydych chi'n ei wneud ar gofrestru awtomatig yn mynd yn bell iawn i unioni'r diffyg democrataidd hwnnw. Felly, byddwn i'n ddiolchgar pe gallech roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Siambr ar ba mor gyflym rydych chi'n meddwl y gallwn ni wneud y cynnydd hwnnw yma yng Nghymru.
Thank you for that question and those comments. I think there is an amount of very transformative legislation that has been going through the Senedd, which started at the beginning of the session, and that is that not only are we reforming the Senedd and we're removing I think the undemocratic first-past-the-post system, the big challenge we have is to start talking seriously about democratic health. That is, the stability of any society is dependent on the extent to which people are prepared to participate and give it its support. The fewer people who participate, the weaker the mandate of any Government, and I think this is something that is beginning to resonate through, I think, countries where you have had falling participation.
Now, we cannot force people to vote, but what we can do is to ensure that the first step is there, that people are actually in place and able to vote. And, of course, as the Electoral Commission noted, in Wales, we are 400,000 people short of those who should be. That is probably something like 8 million in the UK. That raises a real credibility issue in terms of democratic mandate. We can't force people to vote. Obviously, we want to ensure that people do vote, but, unless they're on the register in the first place, then that becomes something that we know from elections is not possible.
So, this is not a silver bullet, but it is a starting point on greater reform in terms of the recognition of the weaknesses within our current structures. I actually think that the legislation, which I think goes to Stage 3 on 17 or 18 June and I hope will have completed its passage this summer and gone for Royal Assent, that it will apply, then, for the 2026 elections—. And I think this is legislation where we show how it can be done, and other countries in the rest of the UK, I think England and, indeed, Scotland, and other places, will see this as a model to follow on, as a starting point for improving our democratic health and greater participation in elections.
Diolch am y cwestiwn hwnnw a'r sylwadau hynny. Rwy'n credu bod yna ddeddfwriaeth drawsnewidiol iawn sydd wedi bod yn mynd drwy'r Senedd, a ddechreuodd ar ddechrau'r sesiwn, a hynny yw nid yn unig ein bod ni'n diwygio'r Senedd ac yn dileu, rwy'n credu, y system annemocrataidd cyntaf i'r felin, yr her fawr sydd gennym ni yw dechrau siarad o ddifrif am iechyd democrataidd. Hynny yw, mae sefydlogrwydd unrhyw gymdeithas yn dibynnu ar i ba raddau y mae pobl yn barod i gymryd rhan a rhoi ei chefnogaeth iddi. Po leiaf y bobl sy'n cymryd rhan, y gwannaf yw mandad unrhyw Lywodraeth, ac rwy'n credu bod hyn yn rhywbeth sy'n dechrau atseinio drwy, rwy'n credu, gwledydd lle mae llai o bobl wedi bod yn cymryd rhan.
Nawr, gallwn ni ddim gorfodi pobl i bleidleisio, ond yr hyn y gallwn ni ei wneud yw sicrhau bod y cam cyntaf yno, bod pobl yn eu lle ac yn gallu pleidleisio. Ac, wrth gwrs, fel y nododd y Comisiwn Etholiadol, yng Nghymru, rydym 400,000 o bobl yn brin o'r rhai a ddylai fod. Mae hynny, fwy na thebyg, yn rhywbeth fel tua 8 miliwn yn y DU. Mae hynny'n codi mater hygrededd gwirioneddol o ran mandad democrataidd. Allwn ni ddim gorfodi pobl i bleidleisio. Yn amlwg, rydym ni eisiau sicrhau bod pobl yn pleidleisio, ond, oni bai eu bod ar y gofrestr yn y lle cyntaf, yna mae hynny'n dod yn rhywbeth yr ydym yn gwybod o etholiadau nad yw'n bosibl.
Felly, nid bwled arian yw hwn, ond mae'n fan cychwyn ar gyfer mwy o ddiwygio o ran cydnabod y gwendidau o fewn ein strwythurau presennol. Mewn gwirionedd, rwy'n credu bod y ddeddfwriaeth, yr wyf yn credu ei bod yn mynd i Gyfnod 3 ar 17 neu 18 Mehefin ac rwy'n gobeithio y bydd wedi cwblhau ei hynt yr haf hwn ac wedi mynd i gael Cydsyniad Brenhinol, y bydd yn berthnasol, wedyn, ar gyfer etholiadau 2026—. Ac rwy'n credu bod hon yn ddeddfwriaeth lle rydym yn dangos sut y gellir ei wneud, a bydd gwledydd eraill yng ngweddill y DU, Lloegr rwy'n credu ac, yn wir, yr Alban, a lleoedd eraill, yn gweld hyn fel model i'w ddilyn, fel man cychwyn ar gyfer gwella ein hiechyd democrataidd a sicrhau mwy o gyfranogiad mewn etholiadau.
I do find it somewhat astonishing that the Counsel General and former First Minister haven't made any reference at all to the fact that any UK resident can apply for a voter authority certificate, which is completely free of charge on the UK Government's website. And if we are serious about increasing voter turnout, which I do agree with—it was woeful during the police and crime commissioner elections recently; in my constituency, I think some ballot boxes were as low as 8 per cent in some areas—if we're really serious about increasing voter turnout, will you join me in putting on the public record that people in Wales can apply for a voter authority certificate via the UK Government's website, completely free of charge?
Rwyf wedi fy synnu braidd nad yw'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol a chyn-Brif Weinidog Cymru wedi cyfeirio o gwbl at y ffaith y gall unrhyw un o drigolion y DU wneud cais am dystysgrif awdurdod pleidleisiwr, sy'n hollol rhad ac am ddim ar wefan Llywodraeth y DU. Ac os ydym o ddifrif ynglŷn â chynyddu'r ganran sy'n pleidleisio, yr wyf yn cytuno â hynny—roedd yn druenus yn ystod etholiadau'r Comisiynwyr Heddlu a Throseddu yn ddiweddar; yn fy etholaeth i, rwy'n credu bod rhai blychau pleidleisio mor isel ag 8 y cant mewn rhai ardaloedd—os ydym o ddifrif ynglŷn â chynyddu'r ganran sy'n pleidleisio, a wnewch chi ymuno â mi i gofnodi'n gyhoeddus y gall pobl yng Nghymru wneud cais am dystysgrif awdurdod pleidleisiwr drwy wefan Llywodraeth y DU, yn hollol rhad ac am ddim?
Well, you make a partly valid case in the sense that the Electoral Commission did a lot of work to tell people, but there are still many people who actually weren't aware. Where you have to go back to is, of course: what was the motivation for introducing this? Was this motivation because of some great concern over electoral fraud or over the robustness of the electoral system? There was no—[Interruption.] There was no evidence—[Interruption.] There was no evidence—
Wel, rydych chi'n gwneud achos rhannol ddilys yn yr ystyr bod y Comisiwn Etholiadol wedi gwneud llawer o waith i ddweud wrth bobl, ond mae llawer o bobl o hyd nad oeddent yn ymwybodol. Lle mae'n rhaid i chi fynd yn ôl iddo, wrth gwrs, yw: beth oedd y cymhelliant dros gyflwyno hyn? A oedd hyn oherwydd rhyw bryder mawr am dwyll etholiadol neu gadernid y system etholiadol? Doedd na ddim—[Torri ar draws.] Doedd dim tystiolaeth—[Torri ar draws.] Doedd dim tystiolaeth—
Can you allow the Member to respond please?
Allwch chi ganiatáu i'r Aelod ymateb, os gwelwch yn dda?
Yes, it's difficult when you are heckled by your own side, isn't it? There was no evidence for this. As Mark Drakeford mentioned, the purpose it was introduced—. Let's be clear—because the cat was out of the bag from Rees-Mogg, wasn't it?—it was about voter suppression. It was about trying to make it more difficult for people to vote. Clearly, that happened when one of your former Prime Ministers turns up and he can't vote, when a veteran can't vote, when a student on his ID card can't vote. It raises the question as to why is it necessary to actually produce an ID card if there is no evidence that they are actually required. You know as well as I do that the purpose behind it is voter suppression, because there are categories of voters that you don't actually want to participate in our elections. That is the reasoning behind it. Rees-Mogg let the cat out of the bag and you're afraid to admit it.
Ydy, mae hi'n anodd pan fyddech chi'n cael eich heclo gan eich ochr eich hun, onid yw e? Doedd dim tystiolaeth ar gyfer hyn. Fel y soniodd Mark Drakeford, y pwrpas y cafodd ei gyflwyno—. Gadewch i ni fod yn glir—oherwydd fe adawodd Rees-Mogg y gath allan o'r cwd, onid do?—roedd yn ymwneud ag atal pleidleiswyr. Roedd yn ymwneud â cheisio ei gwneud hi'n anoddach i bobl bleidleisio. Yn amlwg, mae hynny'n digwydd pan fydd un o'ch cyn Brif Weinidogion yn troi i fyny ac yn methu pleidleisio, pan fydd cyn-filwr yn methu pleidleisio, pan fydd myfyriwr ar ei gerdyn adnabod yn methu pleidleisio. Mae'n codi'r cwestiwn ynghylch pam mae angen dangos cerdyn adnabod mewn gwirionedd os nad oes unrhyw dystiolaeth bod ei angen mewn gwirionedd. Rydych chi'n gwybod cystal â minnau mai'r pwrpas y tu ôl iddo yw atal pleidleiswyr, gan fod categorïau o bleidleiswyr nad ydych chi wir eisiau iddyn nhw gymryd rhan yn ein hetholiadau. Dyna'r rhesymeg y tu ôl iddo. Fe adawodd Rees-Mogg y gath allan o'r cwd ac rydych chi'n ofni cyfaddef hynny.
7. Pa gyngor cyfreithiol y mae'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol wedi'i roi i Lywodraeth Cymru ynghylch hawliau ceiswyr lloches yng Nghymru? OQ61129
7. What legal advice has the Counsel General provided to the Welsh Government regarding the rights of asylum seekers in Wales? OQ61129
Migration policy is not devolved, but Welsh Government does have responsibility for supporting migrant integration in Wales. So, we will continue to play a full, proportionate part in supporting asylum seekers, and we will aim to ensure they have access to relevant services and information to fully contribute to Welsh community life.
Nid yw polisi mudo wedi'i ddatganoli, ond mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn gyfrifol am gefnogi integreiddio mudwyr yng Nghymru. Felly, byddwn ni'n parhau i chwarae rhan lawn a chymesur wrth gefnogi ceiswyr lloches, a byddwn ni'n anelu at sicrhau bod ganddyn nhw fynediad at wasanaethau a gwybodaeth berthnasol i gyfrannu'n llawn at fywyd cymunedol Cymru.
Thank you. People around the world are facing turmoil and violence, and so, rightly, are seeking sanctuary throughout the world. In Britain, we are no different, and I'm proud of the tens of thousands of yearly asylum applicants that the UK Government processes. However, we here in Wales must approach this topic with caution, because there does not seem to be a definitive—or a difference between asylum seekers and illegal immigrants. Now, we also cannot afford to be giving out the vast amount of £1,600 a month to asylum seekers who are not eligible. For comparison, let’s remember that the standard allowance for universal credit is under £400. This is the feedback I am getting from my residents. I hope that this figure isn’t being tested as part of the wider feasibility study for Labour’s universal basic income. Can you imagine the cost if the Government has to give £1,600 a month to every Welsh citizen? I think that that is the utopia, really, here. Can the Counsel General justify how the Government can afford to keep giving these handouts when Welsh residents, my constituents, constituents across north Wales and other places, they cannot be seen by a doctor for over six months, they cannot afford to heat their homes because their council tax has risen 20 to 30 per cent in the last two years, and some people cannot even access a home? Diolch.
Diolch. Mae pobl ledled y byd yn wynebu cythrwfl a thrais, ac felly, yn briodol, yn chwilio am noddfa ledled y byd. Ym Mhrydain, dydyn ni ddim yn wahanol, ac rwy'n falch o'r degau o filoedd o ymgeiswyr lloches y mae Llywodraeth y DU yn eu prosesu bob blwyddyn. Fodd bynnag, rhaid i ni yma yng Nghymru fynd i'r afael â'r pwnc hwn yn ofalus, oherwydd nid yw'n ymddangos bod yna rywbeth i ddiffinio—na gwahaniaeth rhwng ceiswyr lloches a mewnfudwyr anghyfreithlon. Nawr, gallwn ni ddim hefyd fforddio i roi'r swm enfawr o £1,600 y mis i geiswyr lloches nad ydynt yn gymwys. I gymharu, gadewch i ni gofio bod y lwfans safonol ar gyfer credyd cynhwysol o dan £400. Dyma'r adborth rwy'n ei gael gan fy nhrigolion. Rwy'n gobeithio nad yw'r ffigur hwn yn cael ei brofi fel rhan o'r astudiaeth ddichonoldeb ehangach ar gyfer incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol Llafur. Allwch chi ddychmygu'r gost os oes rhaid i'r Llywodraeth roi £1,600 y mis i bob dinesydd o Gymru? Rwy'n credu mai dyna'r iwtopia, mewn gwirionedd, yma. A all y Cwnsler Cyffredinol gyfiawnhau sut y gall y Llywodraeth fforddio parhau i roi'r arian hwn pan na all trigolion Cymru, fy etholwyr, etholwyr ledled y gogledd a lleoedd eraill, gael eu gweld gan feddyg am dros chwe mis, pan na allan nhw fforddio gwresogi eu cartrefi oherwydd bod eu treth gyngor wedi codi 20 i 30 y cant yn ystod y ddwy flynedd ddiwethaf, a dyw rhai pobl ddim hyd yn oed yn gallu cael cartref? Diolch.
I would hope that you'd be ashamed of the points that you started off with, which you know are not only untrue but are grossly—[Interruption.]—grossly misleading and misrepresentative. Can I say that, in that knowledge, how disappointing it is and unethical it is to actually make those comments in that particular way?
Can I just say? The Act, the Rwanda Act, is fundamentally incompatible with the UK's human rights obligations and the fundamental principle of universality of human rights for all. Furthermore, the UN Refugee Agency has described the Act as amounting to an asylum ban, which would breach the 1951 refugee convention. There is absolutely no doubt that it also undermines the UK's standing in the world as a leader in human rights observance and respect for international law.
Let me just give this one comment, when this matter was debated in the Lords, by a former Conservative MP, Viscount Hailsham KC. He said:
'In my opinion, we should not put into a Bill a statement that is manifestly untrue...what, in other circumstances, would be described as a lie'.
Is the sovereignty of Parliament dependent on a lie? Is this what Brexit means? Is this what you have brought this country to: to pass legislation that says that a lie is a truth in order to achieve an objective that is, essentially, unlawful? I really think you should be ashamed of yourselves.
Bydden i'n gobeithio y byddech chi'n teimlo cywilydd o'r pwyntiau y gwnaethoch chi eu gwneud i ddechrau, y gwyddoch chi nid yn unig eu bod nhw'n anwir ond yn hynod—[Torri ar draws.]—yn hynod gamarweiniol a chamgynrychioladol. A gaf i ddweud, o ran y wybodaeth honno, pa mor siomedig ydyw ac anfoesegol ydyw i wneud y sylwadau hynny yn y ffordd benodol honno?
A gaf i ddweud? Mae'r Ddeddf, Deddf Rwanda, yn anghydnaws yn sylfaenol â rhwymedigaethau hawliau dynol y DU a'r egwyddor sylfaenol o gyffredinoldeb hawliau dynol i bawb. Ar ben hynny, mae Asiantaeth Ffoaduriaid y Cenhedloedd Unedig wedi disgrifio'r Ddeddf fel un sy'n gyfystyr â gwaharddiad ar loches, a fyddai'n torri confensiwn ffoaduriaid 1951. Does dim amheuaeth o gwbl ei bod hefyd yn tanseilio statws y DU yn y byd fel arweinydd mewn cadw hawliau dynol a pharch at gyfraith ryngwladol.
Gadewch i mi roi'r un sylw yma, pan drafodwyd y mater hwn yn Nhŷ'r Arglwyddi, gan gyn-AS Ceidwadol, yr Is-iarll Hailsham CB. Dywedodd:
'Yn fy marn i, dylen ni ddim rhoi datganiad mewn Bil sy'n amlwg yn anwir...yr hyn a fyddai, mewn amgylchiadau eraill, yn cael ei ddisgrifio fel celwydd'.
A yw sofraniaeth Senedd y DU yn ddibynnol ar gelwydd? Ai dyna beth mae Brexit yn ei olygu? Ai dyma'r hyn yr ydych chi wedi dod â'r wlad hon iddo: i basio deddfwriaeth sy'n dweud bod celwydd yn wirionedd er mwyn cyflawni amcan sydd, yn y bôn, yn anghyfreithlon? Dylai fod cywilydd arnoch.
Diolch i'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol.
I thank the Counsel General.
Eitem 3, datganiad a chyhoeddiad busnes. Galwaf ar y Trefnydd, Jane Hutt.
Item 3 is the business statement and announcement. I call on the Trefnydd, Jane Hutt.
Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. Mae un newid i fusnes yr wythnos hon: mae'r datganiad gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Addysg ar ymgynghori ar y flwyddyn ysgol wedi cael ei ohirio tan 4 Mehefin. Mae busnes drafft y tair wythnos nesaf wedi'i nodi yn y datganiad a'r cyhoeddiad busnes, sydd ar gael i Aelodau yn electronig.
Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. There is one change to this week's business: the statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Education on consultation on the school year has been postponed until 4 June. Draft business for the next three weeks is set out in the business statement and announcement, which can be found amongst the meeting papers available to Members electronically.
Can I call for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary on health in respect of NHS dental services in north Wales? We know that NHS dentistry in the country is in crisis. We've had big price hikes for those people who can register with an NHS dentist, well above the rate of inflation. But, of course, in Conwy and Denbighshire in particular, we seem to have had a bit of an exodus from the NHS sector, with people deciding to hand back their contracts, and, even within the NHS sector, we've seen the Colwyn Bay community dental health clinic essentially say that it's rowing out of general dental services. Now, clearly, this is causing a great deal of angst for my constituents, many thousands of whom are not registered with an NHS dentist. One constituent contacted me last week to say that she'd been quoted £23,000 for the NHS dental treatment that she now needed and she couldn't access via an NHS dentist. We've got orthodontic patients, young kids, waiting 222 weeks, according to the latest correspondence from the health boards. That's four years. It's completely unacceptable. We need action to sort this out. People aren't getting the service that they need. There's a postcode lottery across north Wales and the rest of the country. Can we have a statement on this, as a matter of urgency, so that we can hold the Government to account for its failure to deliver improved dental care?
A gaf i alw am ddatganiad gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros iechyd mewn perthynas â gwasanaethau deintyddol y GIG yn y gogledd? Rydym yn gwybod bod deintyddiaeth y GIG yn y wlad yn wynebu argyfwng. Rydym wedi cael cynnydd mawr mewn prisiau i'r bobl hynny sy'n gallu cofrestru gyda deintydd GIG, sy'n llawer uwch na chyfradd chwyddiant. Ond, wrth gwrs, yng Nghonwy a sir Ddinbych yn benodol, mae'n ymddangos ein bod ni wedi cael rhywfaint o ecsodus o sector y GIG, gyda phobl yn penderfynu rhoi eu contractau yn ôl, a, hyd yn oed o fewn sector y GIG, rydym wedi gweld clinig iechyd deintyddol cymunedol Bae Colwyn yn dweud ei fod, yn ei hanfod, yn rhwyfo allan o wasanaethau deintyddol cyffredinol. Nawr, yn amlwg, mae hyn yn achosi llawer iawn o angst i'm hetholwyr, y mae miloedd lawer ohonynt heb gofrestru gyda deintydd y GIG. Fe gysylltodd un etholwr â mi yr wythnos diwethaf i ddweud ei bod wedi cael dyfynbris o £23,000 ar gyfer triniaeth ddeintyddol y GIG yr oedd ei hangen arni nawr ac na allai gael mynediad ati drwy ddeintydd y GIG. Mae gennym ni gleifion orthodonteg, plant ifanc, sy'n aros 222 o wythnosau, yn ôl yr ohebiaeth ddiweddaraf gan y byrddau iechyd. Mae hynny'n bedair blynedd. Mae'n gwbl annerbyniol. Mae angen gweithredu er mwyn datrys hyn. Dydy pobl ddim yn cael y gwasanaeth sydd ei angen arnyn nhw. Mae loteri cod post ar draws y gogledd ac yng ngweddill y wlad. A gawn ni ddatganiad ar hyn, fel mater o frys, fel y gallwn ni ddwyn y Llywodraeth i gyfrif am ei methiant i ddarparu gwell gofal deintyddol?
Thank you very much for that question, Darren Millar. Clearly, the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care is not only addressing this in terms of north Wales, but, as you say, the whole of Wales, to ensure that we have dental services, particularly for our children and young people, and, of course, that is where the focus is. I will ask her to give you an update specifically in terms of the services available in north Wales, but, of course, the move forward with the dental contract has been important, and, indeed, the funding and release of dental services. But I'm also aware of the developments in Bangor, for example—it's in the north-west of north Wales, but those, I think, are really important in terms of the dental services that are being developed there in terms of access, training and encouraging the profession to not only come to Wales, but stay in Wales when they're trained.
Diolch yn fawr iawn am y cwestiwn yna, Darren Millar. Yn amlwg, mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol nid yn unig yn mynd i'r afael â hyn o ran y gogledd, ond, fel y dywedwch chi, o ran Cymru gyfan, i sicrhau bod gennym ni wasanaethau deintyddol, yn enwedig ar gyfer ein plant a'n pobl ifanc, ac, wrth gwrs, dyna lle mae'r ffocws. Gofynnaf iddi roi diweddariad i chi yn benodol o ran y gwasanaethau sydd ar gael yn y gogledd, ond, wrth gwrs, mae'r symud ymlaen gyda'r contract deintyddol wedi bod yn bwysig, ac, yn wir, ariannu a rhyddhau gwasanaethau deintyddol. Ond rwyf hefyd yn ymwybodol o'r datblygiadau ym Mangor, er enghraifft—mae yng ngogledd-orllewin gogledd Cymru, ond mae'r rheiny, rwy'n credu, yn bwysig iawn o ran y gwasanaethau deintyddol sy'n cael eu datblygu yno o ran mynediad, hyfforddiant ac annog y proffesiwn nid yn unig i ddod i Gymru, ond i aros yng Nghymru pan fyddan nhw wedi cael eu hyfforddi.
In Wales, our culture is our lifeblood, the thing that makes us who we are, but cuts to culture are threatening this crucial part of identity, and I'd ask for a statement, please, from the Government setting out how it will get to grips with the storm surrounding cuts to our cultural institutions. Now, there has been commendable recognition in recent weeks that this isn't sustainable. I welcome the fact that the new culture Secretary has said that the national museum in Cardiff won't shut on her watch, but the crisis is so much deeper than that. We know that the cuts—. And we've known for a long time that they would be biting, but it's becoming more apparent just how bare the bones will be of what is left without drastic intervention. Welsh National Opera, who sang so beautifully outside the Senedd this afternoon, could soon be without a permanent chorus or orchestra. Our national theatre is in crisis. Magazines like Planet have been forced to stop printing. Michael Sheen has warned that our culture is under attack. So, can a statement urgently address this, please, and reassure the Senedd that the Welsh Government recognises just what is at stake here, and that they will do all they can to reverse these calamitous cuts to our culture?
Yng Nghymru, ein diwylliant yw ein henaid, y peth sy'n ein gwneud ni pwy ydym, ond mae toriadau i ddiwylliant yn bygwth y rhan hanfodol hon o hunaniaeth, a hoffwn ofyn am ddatganiad, os gwelwch yn dda, gan y Llywodraeth yn nodi sut y bydd yn mynd i'r afael â'r storm o amgylch toriadau i'n sefydliadau diwylliannol. Nawr, mae cydnabyddiaeth ganmoladwy wedi bod yn ystod yr wythnosau diwethaf nad yw hyn yn gynaliadwy. Rwy'n croesawu'r ffaith bod yr Ysgrifennydd Diwylliant newydd wedi dweud na fydd yr amgueddfa genedlaethol yng Nghaerdydd yn cau ar ei gwyliadwriaeth hi, ond mae'r argyfwng cymaint yn ddyfnach na hynny. Rydyn ni'n gwybod bod y toriadau—. Ac rydym wedi gwybod ers amser maith y byddent yn brathu, ond mae'n dod yn fwy amlwg pa mor noeth y bydd yr esgyrn o ran yr hyn fydd ar ôl heb ymyrraeth ddrastig. Gallai Opera Cenedlaethol Cymru, a ganodd mor hyfryd y tu allan i'r Senedd y prynhawn yma, fod heb gorws neu gerddorfa barhaol yn fuan. Mae ein theatr genedlaethol mewn argyfwng. Mae cylchgronau fel Planet wedi cael eu gorfodi i roi'r gorau i argraffu. Mae Michael Sheen wedi rhybuddio bod ein diwylliant dan ymosodiad. Felly, a all datganiad fynd i'r afael â hyn ar frys, os gwelwch yn dda, a sicrhau'r Senedd bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn cydnabod beth yn union sydd yn y fantol yma, ac y byddan nhw'n gwneud popeth o fewn eu gallu i wyrdroi'r toriadau trychinebus hyn i'n diwylliant?
Diolch yn fawr am eich cwestiwn pwysig iawn.
Thank you very much for your very important question.
Yes, I think we heard the wonderful singing from the Welsh National Opera and so many of us appreciate the wonderful opera, the Welsh National Opera, and what they have delivered in terms of their track record and that that continues into the next seasons as well. I think it is important, as you raised, it's about the whole picture in terms of the whole set of circumstances, in terms of culture, that our Cabinet Secretary for Culture and Social Justice did launch today the culture strategy. I think that's very important, and I know there's a huge contribution gone into that as a result of our co-operation agreement. And that doesn't go away. That influence and that collaboration, I hope, will continue, and I'm sure it will do, because that's what we would like.
But, obviously, these are extremely difficult financial circumstances that we are in as a Welsh Government, and then, of course, that also does put the pressure onto our arm's-length bodies—and we have that very strong arm's-length funding principle in terms of funding through the Arts Council of Wales. So, the investment review has played a part of this in terms of those decisions. But I think it is important, just in terms of the Welsh National Opera, which we heard about today, that it is still receiving the largest multi-year funding offer of all of ACW's 81 organisations.
But this does go back to the cuts that we've had to our budget by the UK Government, and the difficulties in terms of the priorities that we've had to set with the budget for this year, which, of course, you're also familiar with. But can I just say again how important it is that we've got that culture strategy, that you played your part in it, and that, also, as chair of the cross-party committee, these issues will be fully discussed and scrutinised in terms of impacts and a positive way forward?
Do, rwy'n credu i ni glywed y canu gwych gan Opera Cenedlaethol Cymru ac mae cynifer ohonom yn gwerthfawrogi'r opera wych, Opera Cenedlaethol Cymru, a'r hyn maen nhw wedi'i gyflawni a bod hynny'n parhau i'r tymhorau nesaf hefyd. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig, fel y gwnaethoch ei nodi, ei bod yn ymwneud â'r darlun cyfan o ran y set gyfan o amgylchiadau, o ran diwylliant, bod Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Ddiwylliant a Chyfiawnder Cymdeithasol wedi lansio'r strategaeth ddiwylliant heddiw. Rwy'n credu bod hynny'n bwysig iawn, ac rwy'n gwybod bod cyfraniad enfawr wedi mynd i mewn i hynny o ganlyniad i'n cytundeb cydweithio. A dydy hynny ddim yn diflannu. Bydd y dylanwad hwnnw a'r cydweithio hwnnw, rwy'n gobeithio, yn parhau, ac rwy'n siŵr y bydd yn gwneud hynny, oherwydd dyna'r hyn yr hoffem ni.
Ond, yn amlwg, mae'r rhain yn amgylchiadau ariannol eithriadol o anodd yr ydym ni ynddyn nhw fel Llywodraeth Cymru, ac yna, wrth gwrs, mae hynny hefyd yn rhoi'r pwysau ar ein cyrff hyd braich—ac mae gennym ni'r egwyddor ariannu hyd braich gref honno o ran cyllid drwy Gyngor Celfyddydau Cymru. Felly, mae'r adolygiad buddsoddi wedi chwarae rhan yn hyn o ran y penderfyniadau hynny. Ond rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig, o ran Opera Cenedlaethol Cymru, y clywsom amdano heddiw, ei bod yn dal i dderbyn y cynnig ariannu aml-flwyddyn mwyaf o blith bob un o 81 sefydliad CCC.
Ond mae hyn yn mynd yn ôl i'r toriadau rydym wedi'u cael i'n cyllideb gan Lywodraeth y DU, a'r anawsterau o ran y blaenoriaethau yr ydym wedi gorfod eu gosod gyda'r gyllideb ar gyfer eleni, yr ydych, wrth gwrs, yn gyfarwydd â nhw hefyd. Ond a gaf i ddweud eto pa mor bwysig yw hi fod gennym ni'r strategaeth ddiwylliant honno, y gwnaethoch chi chwarae eich rhan ynddi, a, hefyd, fel cadeirydd y pwyllgor trawsbleidiol, y bydd y materion hyn yn cael eu trafod a'u craffu'n llawn o ran effeithiau a ffordd gadarnhaol ymlaen?
I was pleased to hear that there'll be a debate on the infected blood scandal, on the report that was issued yesterday, and, obviously, this will require quite a lot of consideration by the Senedd, because this is one of seven books that were issued yesterday—massive tomes. And can I ask also that the debate will consider the issue of compensation, because a separate statement was made in the House of Commons today about compensation, with Sir Robert Francis appointed as the interim chair to the committee looking at compensation, as I understand, to the delight of the campaigners who were present in the gallery? So, does the Trefnydd think that we're going to be able to cover all this in one debate, or does she think that we need a separate debate or statement about the very detailed issues that have come up about compensation?
And just to say, very swiftly, I had the great privilege of being in the final hearing yesterday, with a group of infected and affected people from Wales, including the Trefnydd's constituents, which was a very moving occasion, because I think it's very important that we do remember that 70 people died in Wales and 400 people were infected in Wales. So, I'd like to pay tribute to that band of people who have campaigned for so many years, and also to all the politicians here in the Chamber who have also done the same, and the cross-party group as well, under the chair of Rhun ap Iorwerth.
Roeddwn i'n falch o glywed y bydd yna ddadl ar y sgandal gwaed heintiedig, ar yr adroddiad a gyhoeddwyd ddoe, ac, yn amlwg, bydd hyn yn gofyn am gryn dipyn o ystyriaeth gan y Senedd, oherwydd mae hwn yn un o saith llyfr a gyhoeddwyd ddoe—cyfrolau enfawr. Ac a gaf i ofyn hefyd i'r ddadl ystyried mater iawndal, oherwydd cafodd datganiad ar wahân ei wneud yn Nhŷ'r Cyffredin heddiw ynghylch iawndal, gyda Syr Robert Francis yn cael ei benodi'n gadeirydd dros dro i'r pwyllgor yn edrych ar iawndal, fel y deallaf, er mawr lawenydd i'r ymgyrchwyr oedd yn bresennol yn yr oriel? Felly, a yw'r Trefnydd yn credu y byddwn ni'n gallu ymdrin â hyn i gyd mewn un ddadl, neu a yw hi'n credu bod angen dadl neu ddatganiad ar wahân am y materion manwl iawn sydd wedi codi am iawndal?
A dim ond i ddweud, yn gyflym iawn, fe ges i'r fraint o fod yn y gwrandawiad olaf ddoe, gyda grŵp o bobl sydd wedi'u heintio a phobl y mae hyn wedi effeithio arnynt o Gymru, gan gynnwys etholwyr y Trefnydd, a oedd yn achlysur teimladwy iawn, oherwydd rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n bwysig iawn ein bod ni'n cofio bod 70 o bobl wedi marw yng Nghymru a bod 400 o bobl wedi'u heintio yng Nghymru. Felly, hoffwn dalu teyrnged i'r grŵp hwnnw o bobl sydd wedi ymgyrchu ers cymaint o flynyddoedd, a hefyd i'r holl wleidyddion yma yn y Siambr sydd hefyd wedi gwneud yr un peth, a'r grŵp trawsbleidiol hefyd, dan gadeiryddiaeth Rhun ap Iorwerth.
Diolch yn fawr, Julie Morgan. And can I, once again, thank Julie Morgan—and I'm sure this is expressed across the Chamber—for her decades of campaigning on behalf of her constituents? And I think this is the measure of the role that Julie has played, firstly as an MP, as Member of Parliament for Cardiff North, and then as a Senedd Member, that her constituents came to her on this issue and she took up that campaign in such a robust way and has contributed to the way in which I believe this inquiry was set up to investigate the scandal of infected blood products and tissues that were supplied by the NHS in the 1970s and 1980s. And this was well before Julie came and was elected to this Senedd, but playing that part in the cross-party group, and I know, of course, we have colleagues across the Chamber who were engaged, and Rhun ap Iorwerth.
And can we just also say thank you to Julie? She went up to London, was with the families yesterday, and that does include my constituents and many constituents of Members across the Chamber. And, of course, it is the worst treatment scandal in the NHS. It does pre-date devolution, but we have to then look at ways in which we can respond, as we always have done. And indeed, I recall that in my former role as Minister for Health and Social Services.
I think it's important that you made this contribution today and raised the question, Julie, in the business statement, because we are looking to have this Government debate. It was announced today by the First Minister. He gave his full apology today, following the apology given by the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care in her written statement. Of course, this issue about compensation is a matter for the UK Government, and we're working on a four-nation basis to ensure that those affected and their families are compensated. So, we need to look at—. I know that the Cabinet Secretary, and, as you said, in her written statement, is looking now at the report, is looking at each stage of what the response should be. And I think that is very helpful that you have raised this issue, in terms of the context of the debate.
And I think also, just to perhaps reflect on the fact that we did have a debate back on 7 May. And of course, in your former role as Deputy Minister, I want to acknowledge the role that you played then, and confirming that our position in relation to the UK Government's proposal to set up an arm's-length body to provide the vehicle by which the compensation could be paid was really important. The work that you did leading up to that was really important, the work you've done on a four-nation basis, the work you did with a number of health Ministers as well.
I just also want to say that Julie Morgan has shared with us the impact this has had on the survivors and their families—and this has been acknowledged by the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care—and the confidence that they had in Sir Brian Langstaff, the chair of the inquiry, who started taking evidence in 2019, now publishing his final report. I have spent some time in responding to this question, Dirprwy Lywydd, because it is so important. Today is the day that we're reflecting on it, but then we will have a full Government debate, taking on board the points and the questions that the Member for Cardiff North, Julie Morgan, has made. We will take those into account when looking at the motion that will come before the Senedd.
Diolch yn fawr, Julie Morgan. Ac a gaf i, unwaith eto, ddiolch i Julie Morgan—ac rwy'n siŵr bod hyn yn cael ei fynegi ar draws y Siambr—am ei degawdau o ymgyrchu ar ran ei hetholwyr? Ac rwy'n credu bod hwn yn fesur o'r rôl y mae Julie wedi'i chwarae, yn gyntaf fel AS, fel Aelod Seneddol dros Ogledd Caerdydd, ac yna fel Aelod o'r Senedd, bod ei hetholwyr wedi dod ati ar y mater hwn a'i bod wedi ymgymryd â'r ymgyrch honno mewn modd mor gadarn ac wedi cyfrannu at y ffordd y mae'r ymchwiliad hwn wedi'i sefydlu, yn fy marn i, i ymchwilio i sgandal meinweoedd a chynhyrchion gwaed heintiedig a gyflenwyd gan y GIG yn y 1970au a'r 1980au. Ac roedd hyn ymhell cyn i Julie ddod a chael ei hethol i'r Senedd hon, ond chwarae'r rhan honno yn y grŵp trawsbleidiol, ac rwy'n gwybod, wrth gwrs, bod gennym ni gyd-Aelodau ar draws y Siambr a oedd yn rhan o hynny, a Rhun ap Iorwerth.
Ac a allwn ni hefyd ddweud diolch i Julie? Fe aeth hi i fyny i Lundain, roedd hi gyda'r teuluoedd ddoe, ac mae hynny'n cynnwys fy etholwyr i a nifer o etholwyr Aelodau ar draws y Siambr. Ac, wrth gwrs, dyma'r sgandal triniaeth waethaf yn y GIG. Fe ddigwyddodd cyn datganoli, ond mae'n rhaid i ni wedyn edrych ar ffyrdd y gallwn ni ymateb, fel yr ydym wedi gwneud erioed. Ac yn wir, rwy'n cofio hynny yn fy rôl flaenorol fel Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol.
Rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n bwysig eich bod chi wedi gwneud y cyfraniad hwn heddiw a chodi'r cwestiwn, Julie, yn y datganiad busnes, oherwydd rydym yn edrych i gael y ddadl hon gan y Llywodraeth. Cyhoeddwyd hynny gan y Prif Weinidog heddiw. Fe roddodd ei ymddiheuriad llawn heddiw, yn dilyn yr ymddiheuriad a roddwyd gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol yn ei datganiad ysgrifenedig. Wrth gwrs, mater i Lywodraeth y DU yw'r mater hwn am iawndal, ac rydym yn gweithio ar sail pedair gwlad i sicrhau bod y rhai yr effeithiwyd arnynt a'u teuluoedd yn cael iawndal. Felly, mae angen i ni edrych ar—. Rwy'n gwybod bod yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet, ac, fel y dywedoch chi, yn ei datganiad ysgrifenedig, yn edrych ar yr adroddiad nawr, yn edrych ar bob cam o'r hyn y dylai'r ymateb fod. Ac rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n ddefnyddiol iawn eich bod chi wedi codi'r mater hwn, o ran cyd-destun y ddadl.
Ac rwy'n credu hefyd, i fyfyrio efallai ar y ffaith ein bod ni wedi cael dadl yn ôl ar 7 Mai. Ac wrth gwrs, yn eich rôl flaenorol fel Dirprwy Weinidog, rwyf am gydnabod y rôl y gwnaethoch chi ei chwarae bryd hynny, a chadarnhau bod ein safbwynt mewn perthynas â chynnig Llywodraeth y DU i sefydlu corff hyd braich i fod yn gyfrwng ar gyfer talu'r iawndal yn bwysig iawn. Roedd y gwaith a wnaethoch yn arwain i fyny at hynny yn bwysig iawn, y gwaith rydych wedi'i wneud ar sail pedair gwlad, y gwaith a wnaethoch gyda nifer o Weinidogion iechyd hefyd.
Rwyf hefyd eisiau dweud bod Julie Morgan wedi rhannu gyda ni yr effaith y mae hyn wedi'i chael ar y goroeswyr a'u teuluoedd—ac mae hyn wedi cael ei gydnabod gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol—a'r hyder yr oedd ganddyn nhw yn Syr Brian Langstaff, cadeirydd yr ymchwiliad, a ddechreuodd gymryd tystiolaeth yn 2019, yn cyhoeddi ei adroddiad terfynol nawr. Rwyf wedi treulio peth amser yn ymateb i'r cwestiwn hwn, Dirprwy Lywydd, oherwydd ei fod mor bwysig. Heddiw yw'r diwrnod yr ydym yn myfyrio arno, ond yna byddwn yn cael dadl lawn gan y Llywodraeth, a fydd yn ystyried y pwyntiau a'r cwestiynau y mae'r Aelod dros Ogledd Caerdydd, Julie Morgan, wedi'u gwneud. Byddwn ni'n ystyried y rheini wrth edrych ar y cynnig a fydd yn dod gerbron y Senedd.
Trefnydd, I don't know how many times I need to stand up in this Chamber and raise the Withyhedge landfill site scandal, but, sadly, the local community still continues to live with potentially toxic emissions coming from the site, despite the fact that Natural Resources Wales's latest enforcement notice deadline to the operator was this time last week. It's infuriating that people living near the site have to put up with this awful situation, and there appears to be no end in sight for them. The community feel that they're going round and round in circles.
Natural Resources Wales hasn't confirmed whether the operator has complied with the latest enforcement notice, nobody will confirm how toxic the emissions are, and, quite frankly, it appears as if nobody cares what happens to this community. Well, I do, and I will raise this issue again and again and again until the community gets the answers and the support that it deserves.
Trefnydd, I've written to Natural Resources Wales, I've written and met with Public Health Wales, but it's quite clear that this is not being dealt with appropriately as my constituents continue to suffer. I believe now that there needs to be an independent public inquiry into the handling of this. Therefore, can I request a statement from the Welsh Government, outlining its position on this scandal, and whether it will support the calls for an independent public inquiry?
Trefnydd, dydw i ddim yn gwybod sawl gwaith y mae angen i mi sefyll i fyny yn y Siambr hon a chodi sgandal safle tirlenwi Withyhedge, ond, yn anffodus, mae'r gymuned leol yn dal i fyw gydag allyriadau a allai fod yn wenwynig yn dod o'r safle, er gwaethaf y ffaith mai dyddiad cau hysbysiad gorfodi diweddaraf Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru i'r gweithredwr oedd yr adeg hon yr wythnos diwethaf. Mae'n gynddeiriogol bod yn rhaid i bobl sy'n byw ger y safle oddef y sefyllfa ofnadwy hon, ac mae'n ymddangos nad oes diwedd yn y golwg iddyn nhw. Mae'r gymuned yn teimlo eu bod nhw'n mynd rownd a rownd mewn cylchoedd.
Dydy Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru ddim wedi cadarnhau a yw'r gweithredwr wedi cydymffurfio â'r hysbysiad gorfodi diweddaraf, dydy neb wedi cadarnhau pa mor wenwynig yw'r allyriadau, ac, a dweud y gwir, mae'n ymddangos nad oes neb yn poeni beth sy'n digwydd i'r gymuned hon. Wel, rwyf innau'n poeni, a byddaf yn codi'r mater hwn dro ar ôl tro nes bod y gymuned yn cael yr atebion a'r gefnogaeth y mae'n ei haeddu.
Trefnydd, rwyf wedi ysgrifennu i Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru, rwyf wedi ysgrifennu i Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru ac wedi cwrdd â nhw, ond mae'n eithaf amlwg nad yw hyn yn cael ei drin yn briodol wrth i'm hetholwyr barhau i ddioddef. Rwy'n credu nawr bod angen ymchwiliad cyhoeddus annibynnol i'r ffordd yr ymdriniwyd â hyn. Felly, a gaf i ofyn am ddatganiad gan Lywodraeth Cymru, yn amlinellu ei safbwynt ar y sgandal hon, ac a fydd yn cefnogi'r galwadau am ymchwiliad cyhoeddus annibynnol?
Diolch yn fawr, Paul Davies. I can quite understand, as an elected representative, why you are bringing this and bringing it forward to me in my business statement, and I'm sure you took the opportunity to bring it forward to the Cabinet Secretary when he had his oral Senedd questions. But this needs to be resolved. That's the call again today.
Just to give you the update: I understand that Natural Resources Wales have increased their presence onsite, and they are updating the community, via their website. Enforcement notices have been served on the landfill operator, who's required to cover all exposed waste and complete landfill engineering work to contain and collect landfill gas. And if the landfill operator fails to comply with the final deadline of the notice, Natural Resources Wales will be looking to take appropriate enforcement action in line with their enforcement and prosecution policy.
I won't repeat some of the reports back I've given in previous weeks, but, just to say, in terms of latest developments, that I'm aware that the council—Pembrokeshire County Council—is considering an injunction, requiring the operator to abate the public nuisance, but obviously working with NRW to determine if the operator has addressed all the steps in NRW's notice, before taking further action.
Diolch yn fawr, Paul Davies. Gallaf ddeall yn iawn, fel cynrychiolydd etholedig, pam eich bod yn cyflwyno hyn ac yn ei gyflwyno i mi yn fy natganiad busnes, ac rwy'n siŵr eich bod chi wedi manteisio ar y cyfle i'w gyflwyno i'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet pan oedd ganddo ei gwestiynau llafar yn y Senedd. Ond mae angen datrys hyn. Dyna'r alwad eto heddiw.
Dim ond i roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i chi: rwy'n deall bod Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru wedi cynyddu ei bresenoldeb ar y safle, a'i fod yn diweddaru'r gymuned, trwy ei wefan. Mae hysbysiadau gorfodi wedi'u cyflwyno i'r gweithredwr tirlenwi, y mae'n ofynnol iddo orchuddio'r holl wastraff agored a chwblhau gwaith peirianneg tirlenwi i atal a chasglu nwy tirlenwi. Ac os bydd y gweithredwr tirlenwi yn methu â chydymffurfio â dyddiad cau terfynol yr hysbysiad, bydd Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru yn ystyried cymryd camau gorfodi priodol yn unol â'i bolisi gorfodi ac erlyn.
Wna i ddim ailadrodd rhai o'r adroddiadau yn ôl yr wyf wedi'u rhoi mewn wythnosau blaenorol, ond, dim ond i ddweud, o ran y datblygiadau diweddaraf, fy mod i'n ymwybodol bod y cyngor—Cyngor Sir Penfro—yn ystyried gwaharddeb, a fydd yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i'r gweithredwr atal y niwsans cyhoeddus, ond yn amlwg yn gweithio gyda Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru i benderfynu a yw'r gweithredwr wedi mynd i'r afael â'r holl gamau yn hysbysiad Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru, cyn cymryd camau pellach.
Hoffwn ofyn am ddatganiad Llywodraeth yn dilyn dyfarniad y llys ynglŷn â chyn-bennaeth Ysgol Friars, Bangor. Mae plant yn fy etholaeth i a thu hwnt wedi dioddef yn enbyd. Mae fy nghalon i'n gwaedu drostyn nhw a dros eu teuluoedd, a dwi yn edmygu dewrder y rhai ddaeth ymlaen i adrodd eu profiadau hunllefus. Roedd y troseddau yn wirioneddol erchyll. Dwi yn deall y bydd y bwrdd diogelu plant yn y gogledd yn cynnal ymchwiliad, ac, wrth gwrs, rydyn ni yn croesawu hynny. Mi fuaswn i'n hoffi deall beth yn union fydd sgôp ymchwiliad y bwrdd diogelu. Ond hoffwn i wybod hefyd pa fathau eraill o ymyriadau ac ymchwiliadau annibynnol allai gael eu cynnal. Beth sydd o dan ystyriaeth gan y Llywodraeth? Beth ydy'r arweiniad mae'r Llywodraeth yn ei roi yn sgil difrifoldeb y sefyllfa? Felly, mi fyddwn i'n pwysleisio pwysigrwydd cael datganiad Llywodraeth ar lawr y Senedd, ar ôl y toriad, yn gosod allan beth sy'n digwydd, er mwyn i ni fedru dysgu gwersi i'r dyfodol. Diolch.
I would like to ask for a Government statement following the court judgment with regard to the former head of Ysgol Friars in Bangor. Children in my constituency and beyond have suffered a great deal. My heart bleeds for them and for their families, and I admire the bravery of those who came forward to report their nightmarish experiences. The crimes were genuinely appalling. I do understand that the child safeguarding board in north Wales will hold an inquiry, and, of course, we welcome that. I would like to understand exactly what the scope of the inquiry by the safeguarding board will be. But I'd also like to know what other kinds of interventions and independent inquiries could be held. What is being considered by the Government? What is the guidance that the Government is sharing as a result of the seriousness of the situation? So, I would emphasise the importance of a Government statement at the Senedd, following recess, setting out what exactly is happening, so that we can learn lessons for the future. Thank you.
Diolch yn fawr, Siân Gwenllian. Diolch yn fawr am eich cwestiwn, a hefyd am eich datganiad pwysig iawn y prynhawn ma.
Thank you very much for your question, Siân Gwenllian, and for your important statement this afternoon.
We all share with you and your constituents, and all those who have been affected, the shock and disgust that Neil Foden was able to abuse his position of authority to commit those crimes. And our thoughts here today—. And I can see that across our Chamber our thoughts are with his victims at this time. So, now the criminal process has ended, the regional safeguarding board, as you said, will undertake a child practice review. It is an independent review. It will consider the involvement of relevant agencies, it will identify learning and make recommendations to improve future safeguarding practice, and we stand ready to fully support and engage with the review. It is important that we understand the full extent of any failings in current safeguarding arrangements, and ensure that appropriate measures are put in place without delay to prevent such occurrences in the future.
Rydym ni i gyd yn rhannu gyda chi a'ch etholwyr, a phawb sydd wedi'u heffeithio, y sioc a'r ffieidd-dra bod Neil Foden wedi gallu camddefnyddio'r awdurdod yr oedd ganddo yn ei swydd i gyflawni'r troseddau hynny. Ac mae ein meddyliau ni yma heddiw—. A gallaf weld ar draws y Siambr bod ein meddyliau gyda'i ddioddefwyr ar yr adeg hon. Felly, nawr bod y broses droseddol wedi dod i ben, bydd y bwrdd diogelu rhanbarthol, fel y dywedoch chi, yn cynnal adolygiad ymarfer plant. Adolygiad annibynnol ydyw. Bydd yn ystyried y rhan a chwaraeodd asiantaethau perthnasol, bydd yn nodi'r hyn y gellir ei ddysgu ac yn gwneud argymhellion i wella arferion diogelu yn y dyfodol, ac rydym yn barod i gefnogi'r adolygiad yn llawn ac ymgysylltu'n llawn ag ef. Mae'n bwysig ein bod ni'n deall graddau llawn unrhyw fethiannau yn y trefniadau diogelu presennol, a sicrhau bod mesurau priodol yn cael eu rhoi ar waith yn ddi-oed i atal digwyddiadau o'r fath yn y dyfodol.
I wanted to raise another toxic waste issue, which is that of the sewage in our seas and rivers. You will be aware, Trefnydd, that people were ordered out of the water at Barry Island on Saturday, because of the water quality, and this was while there were huge numbers of people there because of the Gwŷl Fach y Fro festival of music and street entertainment. Surfers Against Sewage have warned that 19 beaches in Wales have been polluted by storm sewage or given poor water classifications.
I'm very keen to understand how this happened on Saturday, given that there was no substantial rainfall during Thursday and Friday. So, I wondered if we could request a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for climate change on conversations that may have taken place with Dŵr Cymru and how we address this. It's a situation that's disastrous for tourism and potentially for public health. And that comes in the context of the inadequate interim environmental governance arrangements that we have, so that although NRW are the regulator, we also need to have an organisation that's able to, actually, deal with any of these major pollutions. So, I wondered if you are able to add anything, given your particular constituency interest in this.
Roeddwn i eisiau codi mater arall yn ymwneud â gwastraff gwenwynig, sef y carthion yn ein moroedd a'n hafonydd. Fe fyddwch chi'n ymwybodol, Trefnydd, bod pobl wedi cael eu gorchymyn i ddod allan o'r dŵr yn Ynys y Barri ddydd Sadwrn, oherwydd ansawdd y dŵr, a hyn tra bod niferoedd mawr o bobl yno oherwydd gŵyl gerddoriaeth ac adloniant stryd Gwŷl Fach y Fro. Mae Surfers Against Sewage wedi rhybuddio bod 19 o draethau yng Nghymru wedi cael eu llygru gan garthion storm neu wedi cael dosbarthiadau dŵr gwael.
Rwy'n awyddus iawn i ddeall sut y digwyddodd hyn ddydd Sadwrn, o gofio na chafwyd glaw sylweddol yn ystod dydd Iau a dydd Gwener. Felly, tybed a allem ofyn am ddatganiad gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros newid hinsawdd ar sgyrsiau a all fod wedi digwydd gyda Dŵr Cymru a sut allwn fynd i'r afael â hyn. Mae'n sefyllfa sy'n drychinebus i dwristiaeth ac o bosibl i iechyd y cyhoedd. Ac mae hynny yng nghyd-destun y trefniadau llywodraethu amgylcheddol interim annigonol sydd gennym, felly er mai Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru yw'r rheoleiddiwr, mae angen i ni hefyd gael sefydliad sy'n gallu delio, mewn gwirionedd, ag unrhyw un o'r digwyddiadau llygredd mawr hyn. Felly, tybed a allwch chi ychwanegu unrhyw beth, o ystyried eich diddordeb etholaethol penodol yn hyn.
Thank you, Jenny Rathbone, for that question. Yes, it’s in my constituency. In Barry, the town where I live, Whitmore bay, which is where this incident happened, has consistently met stringent bathing water quality standards. In 2023, it achieved a good bathing water classification. My understanding is that, on Saturday afternoon, Dŵr Cymru observed activity on the monitor at Barry's overflow, and that prompted the relevant agencies to undertake due diligence measures, including the RNLI issuing a red flag on the beach and making announcements advising beach users not to enter the water. Following an investigation, Dŵr Cymru confirmed it was a false alarm caused by a monitor fault, which is possible. They're currently addressing the issue with the monitor and apologised for the incident and the confusion. Vale of Glamorgan Council have assured and reassured the public that regular testing of the water at Barry Island takes place. There's no reason currently to consider the water at Whitmore bay to be unsafe.
As a Government, we've always been clear that we expect water companies in Wales to work hard to deliver both operational and environmental improvements, in addition to delivering excellent services to their customers. But, of course, this is a huge cause of concern in terms of the people. The sun came out, people come to Barry, it's a great beach on the doorstep of south Wales in terms of the opportunities to come. I think this is something where we need to look very carefully at what is happening in terms of Dŵr Cymru and that mistake in terms of the monitor. They've installed, I understand, event duration monitoring for 9 per cent of their storm overflow assets, which does provide data on when there could be storm overflow discharge, and that's real-time information. So, there is close monitoring, and that's what we now need to see delivered, and effectiveness of warning systems in our bathing waters.
Diolch, Jenny Rathbone, am y cwestiwn hwnnw. Ydy, mae yn fy etholaeth i. Yn y Barri, y dref lle rydw i'n byw, mae Bae Whitmore, lle y digwyddodd hyn, wedi cyrraedd safonau ansawdd dŵr ymdrochi llym yn gyson. Yn 2023, fe gafodd ddosbarthiad da o ran ei ddŵr ymdrochi. Fy nealltwriaeth i yw bod Dŵr Cymru, brynhawn Sadwrn, wedi arsylwi ar weithgarwch ar y monitor yng ngorlif y Barri, a bod hynny wedi ysgogi'r asiantaethau perthnasol i gymryd mesurau diwydrwydd dyladwy, gan gynnwys yr RNLI yn cyhoeddi baner goch ar y traeth a gwneud cyhoeddiadau yn cynghori defnyddwyr y traeth i beidio â mynd i mewn i'r dŵr. Yn dilyn ymchwiliad, cadarnhaodd Dŵr Cymru mai camrybudd ydoedd a achoswyd gan nam gyda'r monitro, sydd yn bosibl. Maen nhw wrthi'n mynd i'r afael â'r broblem gyda'r monitor ac yn ymddiheuro am y digwyddiad a'r dryswch. Mae Cyngor Bro Morgannwg wedi rhoi sicrwydd i'r cyhoedd bod y dŵr yn Ynys y Barri yn cael ei brofi'n rheolaidd. Does dim rheswm ar hyn o bryd i ystyried bod y dŵr ym Mae Whitmore yn anniogel.
Fel Llywodraeth, rydym bob amser wedi bod yn glir ein bod ni'n disgwyl i gwmnïau dŵr yng Nghymru weithio'n galed i gyflawni gwelliannau gweithredol ac amgylcheddol, yn ogystal â darparu gwasanaethau rhagorol i'w cwsmeriaid. Ond, wrth gwrs, mae hyn yn achos pryder enfawr o ran y bobl. Daeth yr haul allan, mae pobl yn dod i'r Barri, mae'n draeth gwych ar stepen drws de Cymru o ran y cyfleoedd sydd i ddod. Rwy'n credu bod hyn yn rhywbeth lle mae angen i ni edrych yn ofalus iawn ar yr hyn sy'n digwydd o ran Dŵr Cymru a'r camgymeriad yna o ran y monitor. Maen nhw wedi gosod, rwy'n deall, monitro hyd digwyddiadau ar gyfer 9 y cant o'u hasedau gorlif storm, sydd yn darparu data ynghylch pryd y gallai fod gollyngiadau gorlif storm, ac mae hynny'n wybodaeth amser real. Felly, mae yna fonitro agos, a dyna'r hyn sydd angen i ni ei weld yn cael ei gyflawni, ac effeithiolrwydd systemau rhybuddio yn ein dyfroedd ymdrochi.
Trefnydd, can I ask for a statement that sets out the call-in process from the Cabinet Secretary for Housing, Local Government and Planning, please? My concern is the length of time it takes for the Welsh Government to consider a call-in request. I've got several cases where businesses and applicants' lives are being put on hold for considerably long periods of time whilst Welsh Government Ministers determine whether a call-in request should be accepted or not.
There's a particular case that I would refer to. The example here is that a request for a call-in was made on 7 February last year, or rather the Cabinet Secretary—Minister at the time—Julie James requested to the local authority that the planning permission would not be granted, and it's taken 15 months and still we're waiting for a response from the Welsh Government on whether that application will be called in or not.
Secondly, and more frustratingly, I wrote to the Cabinet Secretary on 15 May last year—not this year, last year—to ask for an update on this application and had a response in July of last year, which was a holding response. I've since sent five e-mails that have gone unanswered, on 25 October, 21 November, 4 January, 5 and 26 February of this year. It really is uncourteous not to reply to me, and I am unable to respond to my constituents to tell them what is the outcome and why there is a delay on the determination of the Welsh Government deciding whether there should be a call-in for this application or not.
Can you, Trefnydd, raise this with your colleague Julie James in terms of this specific case, which I'm very happy to send to you, Trefnydd, in writing, and could I also request a statement with regard to the call-in process to understand why it takes so long for Welsh Government Ministers to determine an application?
Trefnydd, a gaf i ofyn am ddatganiad sy'n nodi'r broses galw i mewn gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Dai, Llywodraeth Leol a Chynllunio, os gwelwch yn dda? Fy mhryder i yw'r amser y mae'n ei gymryd i Lywodraeth Cymru ystyried cais galw i mewn. Mae gen i sawl achos lle mae busnesau ac ymgeiswyr yn wynebu oedi am gyfnodau sylweddol o amser tra bod Gweinidogion Llywodraeth Cymru yn penderfynu a ddylid derbyn cais galw i mewn ai peidio.
Mae yna achos penodol y byddwn i'n cyfeirio ato. Yr enghraifft yma yw bod cais galw i mewn wedi'i wneud ar 7 Chwefror y llynedd, neu'n hytrach fe wnaeth yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet—Gweinidog ar y pryd—Julie James ofyn i'r awdurdod lleol beidio â rhoi caniatâd cynllunio, ac mae wedi cymryd 15 mis ac rydym yn dal i aros am ymateb gan Lywodraeth Cymru ynghylch a fydd y cais hwnnw'n cael ei alw i mewn ai peidio.
Yn ail, ac yn fwy rhwystredig, fe ysgrifennais i at yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet ar 15 Mai y llynedd—nid eleni, y llynedd—i ofyn am ddiweddariad ar y cais hwn ac fe ges i ymateb ym mis Gorffennaf y llynedd, a oedd yn ymateb dros dro. Ers hynny, rwyf wedi anfon pum e-bost sydd heb eu hateb, ar 25 Hydref, 21 Tachwedd, 4 Ionawr, 5 a 26 Chwefror eleni. Mae'n wirioneddol anghwrtais peidio ag ymateb i mi, ac nid wyf yn gallu ymateb i fy etholwyr i ddweud wrthyn nhw beth yw'r canlyniad a pham mae yna oedi cyn i Lywodraeth Cymru benderfynu a ddylai'r cais hwn gael ei alw i mewn ai peidio.
Allwch chi, Trefnydd, godi hyn gyda'ch cyd-Aelod Julie James o ran yr achos penodol hwn, yr wyf i'n hapus iawn i'w anfon atoch chi, Trefnydd, yn ysgrifenedig, ac a gaf i ofyn am ddatganiad hefyd ynghylch y broses galw i mewn i ddeall pam ei bod hi'n cymryd cyhyd i Weinidogion Llywodraeth Cymru benderfynu ar gais?
I'm sure, Russell George—I thank you for your question—you will appreciate I can't comment on specific planning cases of this kind that lead to a call-in for the Welsh Government to then give the response from the Cabinet Secretary for Housing, Local Government and Planning. These are happening all over Wales, so there will be different circumstances in each case, but I will certainly raise your concerns with the Cabinet Secretary, and I'm sure she will want to confirm the arrangements in terms of the overall picture of how call-in is managed and operated.
Rwy'n siŵr, Russell George—diolch am eich cwestiwn—y byddwch chi'n gwerthfawrogi na allaf wneud sylw ar achosion cynllunio penodol o'r math hwn sy'n arwain at alwad i mewn er mwyn i Lywodraeth Cymru roi'r ymateb gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Dai, Llywodraeth Leol a Chynllunio wedyn. Mae'r rhain yn digwydd ledled Cymru, felly bydd amgylchiadau gwahanol ym mhob achos, ond byddaf yn sicr yn codi eich pryderon gyda'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet, ac rwy'n siŵr y bydd hi am gadarnhau'r trefniadau o ran y darlun cyffredinol o sut y caiff galw i mewn ei reoli a'i weithredu.
Gaf i ofyn am ddatganiad am ddiweddariad ar gynllun gwella gwasanaethau canser Cymru gan y Gweinidog iechyd, os gwelwch yn dda, ac yn benodol lefelau cynnydd yn adnabyddiaeth canser y fron yn y gogledd? Mae gen i etholwraig sydd yn dioddef o ganser y fron, ac yn anffodus, mae'r oncolegydd arbenigol yn Ysbyty Gwynedd yn sâl, sy'n golygu bod yn rhaid i gleifion canser y fron o'r gogledd-orllewin deithio i Wrecsam i weld oncolegydd sydd yn gweithio yno fel locwm. Yn anffodus, oherwydd y sefyllfa staffio, mae'r cleifion sydd angen gwneud trefniadau i fynd yno yn cael apwyntiadau wedi'u canslo'n hwyr ac yn gorfod canslo, er enghraifft, gwestai, ac yn y blaen, ac mae'n golygu eu bod yn methu eu hapwyntiadau, sy'n achosi trafferthion iddyn nhw. Mae hyn yn golygu bod merched gogledd-orllewin Cymru yn colli allan oherwydd nad oes darpariaeth deg i ddarpar gleifion canser y fron yn yr ardal. Mae hyn yn anghyson â'r cynllun gwella gwasanaethau canser yng Nghymru, felly mi fyddwn i'n ddiolchgar am ddiweddariad gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros iechyd ar y pwnc yma.
May I ask for a statement with an update on the Wales cancer service improvement from the Cabinet Secretary for health, please, and particularly levels of progress in identifying breast cancer in north Wales? I have a constituent who suffers breast cancer, and unfortunately the specialist oncologist at Ysbyty Gwynedd is unwell, which means that breast cancer patients from the north-west have to travel to Wrexham to see an oncologist, who works there as a locum. Unfortunately, because of the staffing position, patients who need to make appointments to go there are having their appointments cancelled late and are having to cancel hotels, and so on, which means that they are missing appointments, which causes difficulties for them. This means that women in the north-west of Wales are missing out because there isn't fair provision for prospective breast cancer patients in the area. This is inconsistent with the cancer service improvement plan in Wales, so I would be grateful for an update from the Cabinet Secretary for health on this issue.
Diolch yn fawr, Mabon ap Gwynfor. We have the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care with us. This is a matter for Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board, but I think the Cabinet Secretary will look at this circumstance in terms of the consistency and accessibility of care to your constituents with breast cancer in north-west Wales.
Diolch yn fawr, Mabon ap Gwynfor. Mae gennym Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol gyda ni. Mater i Fwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr yw hwn, ond rwy'n credu y bydd yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet yn edrych ar yr amgylchiadau hyn o ran cysondeb a hygyrchedd gofal i'ch etholwyr yn y gogledd-orllewin sydd â chanser y fron.
Cabinet Secretary, Governments are ultimately the leading responsible custodians of our cultural heritage and of the architecture within it. I wish to ask for a statement to this place that outlines the analysis made of the combined impacts of the cumulative cuts from both the arts councils in England and Wales on the ability of WNO to function, perform and tour; the assessment made of the impact of the loss of highly trained and qualitative jobs to Wales's largest arts employer; the impact of a part-time delivery model on retaining and recruiting quality and excellence; and finally the assessments made of the diminishment of WNO's first-class community, well-being and schools outreach across Wales.
Minister, we can never be bystanders to cultural vandalism, and we in this place cannot be bystanders, an audience, and watch from these chairs as the jewel in the Welsh performance crown dissolves in front of us. I ask that the statement articulates the necessary funding needed to keep WNO full-time and outline the progress of a refreshed binational funding agreement. We have, in this place, a collective duty of care to protect our national institutions, and, as the world-renowned conductor Carlo Rizzi has just said a moment ago on the Senedd steps, to protect one of the finest opera companies in the world—a company born in Wales, bred in Wales, in the land of song. It is brand Wales. Thank you.
Ysgrifennydd Cabinet, yn y pen draw, Llywodraethau yw prif geidwaid cyfrifol ein treftadaeth ddiwylliannol a'r bensaernïaeth sydd oddi mewn iddi. Hoffwn ofyn am ddatganiad i'r lle hwn sy'n amlinellu'r dadansoddiad a wnaed o effeithiau cyfunol y toriadau cronnus gan gynghorau celfyddydau Cymru a Lloegr ar allu Opera Cenedlaethol Cymru i weithredu, i berfformio ac i deithio; yr asesiad a wnaed o effaith colli swyddi medrus ac ansoddol iawn ar y cyflogwr mwyaf ym maes y celfyddydau yng Nghymru; effaith model cyflawni rhan-amser ar gadw a recriwtio ansawdd a rhagoriaeth; ac yn olaf yr asesiadau a wnaed o'r lleihad yn yr allgymorth cymunedol, llesiant ac ysgolion o'r radd flaenaf a ddarperir gan Opera Cenedlaethol Cymru ledled Cymru.
Gweinidog, gallwn ni byth wylio tra bod fandaliaeth ddiwylliannol yn mynd rhagddi, a gallwn ni yn y lle hwn ddim fod yn wylwyr, yn gynulleidfa, a gwylio o'r cadeiriau hyn wrth i'r em yng nghoron perfformio Cymru gael ei diddymu o'n blaenau. Gofynnaf i'r datganiad nodi'r cyllid sydd ei angen i gadw Opera Cenedlaethol Cymru yn llawn amser ac amlinellu'r cynnydd o ran cael cytundeb cyllido newydd rhwng y ddwy wlad. Mae gennym ni, yn y lle hwn, ddyletswydd gofal ar y cyd i amddiffyn ein sefydliadau cenedlaethol, ac, fel mae'r arweinydd byd-enwog Carlo Rizzi newydd ddweud munud yn ôl ar risiau'r Senedd, i amddiffyn un o'r cwmnïau opera gorau yn y byd—cwmni a anwyd yng Nghymru, a fagwyd yng Nghymru, yng ngwlad y gân. Mae'n rhan o frand Cymru. Diolch.
Thank you, Rhianon Passmore. I have responded to a question on the overall cultural position earlier on this afternoon. I think it is important that we heard Rhianon Passmore this afternoon with her views. I recognise that you tabled a statement of opinion as well, as a Labour backbencher, with support. Again, as you said, it's world-renowned, Welsh National Opera, for its excellence, performance and outreach, and I hope that a way forward can be found for the cultural sector, as I said earlier on. And it is good that we have got the culture strategy published today by the Cabinet Secretary for Culture and Social Justice.
Diolch, Rhiannon Passmore. Rwyf wedi ymateb i gwestiwn ar y sefyllfa gyffredinol o ran diwylliant yn gynharach y prynhawn yma. Rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n bwysig ein bod ni wedi clywed safbwyntiau Rhianon Passmore y prynhawn yma. Rwy'n cydnabod eich bod chi wedi cyflwyno datganiad barn hefyd, fel Aelod o'r meinciau cefn Llafur, gyda chefnogaeth. Unwaith eto, fel y dywedoch chi, mae Opera Cenedlaethol Cymru yn adnabyddus yn fyd-eang am ei ragoriaeth, ei berfformiad a'i allgymorth, ac rwy'n gobeithio y gellir dod o hyd i ffordd ymlaen i'r sector diwylliannol, fel y dywedais i yn gynharach. Ac mae'n dda bod gennym ni'r strategaeth ddiwylliant a gyhoeddwyd heddiw gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Ddiwylliant a Chyfiawnder Cymdeithasol.
Trefnydd, could I request a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for health regarding the provision and availability of phlebotomy services in the region of South Wales West? I've had numerous constituents contact me detailing their struggles attending these appointments due to the centralised model for these services and the impact that limited transport links might then have on those patients. One constituent took four hours to get to the hospital for a simple five-minute procedure. I understand, having spoken to one of the health boards in my region about the centralisation of services, that it was due to the minimisation of time spent transporting blood samples and alleviating pressure on local practices, and I understand that, but it does put additional pressure on patients, particularly those that struggle to get to their appointments. Can I ask, therefore, for an update on the Welsh Government's strategy to make sure that these services are available for everybody who needs them?
Trefnydd, a gaf i ofyn am ddatganiad gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros iechyd ynghylch darpariaeth gwasanaethau fflebotomi yn rhanbarth Gorllewin De Cymru ac argaeledd y gwasanaethau hynny? Rwyf wedi cael nifer o etholwyr yn cysylltu â mi yn nodi'r trafferthion y maen nhw wedi'u cael yn mynychu'r apwyntiadau hyn oherwydd y model canolog ar gyfer y gwasanaethau hyn a'r effaith y gallai cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth cyfyngedig ei chael wedyn ar y cleifion hynny. Fe gymerodd un etholwr bedair awr i gyrraedd yr ysbyty i gael triniaeth syml sy'n para bum munud. Rwy'n deall, ar ôl siarad ag un o'r byrddau iechyd yn fy rhanbarth am ganoli gwasanaethau, mai'r rheswm amdano oedd i leihau'r amser a oedd yn cael ei dreulio yn cludo samplau gwaed ac i leddfu pwysau ar bractisau lleol, ac rwy'n deall hynny, ond mae'n rhoi pwysau ychwanegol ar gleifion, yn enwedig y rhai sy'n ei chael hi'n anodd cyrraedd eu hapwyntiadau. A gaf i ofyn, felly, am y wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am strategaeth Llywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau bod y gwasanaethau hyn ar gael i bawb sydd eu hangen?
Thank you for that question. You’ve done the right thing to draw this to the attention of the health boards, who are responsible, and your point has been recorded today.
Diolch am y cwestiwn yna. Rydych chi wedi gwneud y peth iawn i ddwyn hyn at sylw'r byrddau iechyd, sy'n gyfrifol, ac mae eich pwynt wedi'i gofnodi heddiw.
Ac yn olaf, Gareth Davies.
And finally, Gareth Davies.
Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. Can I call for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language this afternoon? As we embark on the summer months, the Queen's Market in Rhyl is still without an operator, coming up to six months since the Mikhail Hotel & Leisure Group sadly pulled out. Local people are starting to see the new development as a white elephant, with over £12 million invested into what was envisioned a year ago as the nucleus of retail activity, but that, four years on, is now just an empty building. I believe that the Queen's Market could be a catalyst to rejuvenate the town, but it's unacceptable that, after a considerable length of time and a considerable amount of taxpayers' money invested, the market still isn't operational.
My constituents would like to see some oversight on how their money is spent. They'd like the Welsh Government to ensure that, when they spend taxpayers' money on the development, they ensure that taxpayers see the results of their investment and the money isn't forgotten about. So, can I have a statement to confirm to my constituents that this Government will work with Denbighshire County Council to ensure that this long-overdue project secures an operator and starts to benefit the town rather than it being an expensive white elephant that nobody can access?
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. A gaf i alw am ddatganiad gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros yr Economi, Ynni a'r Gymraeg y prynhawn yma? Wrth i ni ddechrau misoedd yr haf, mae Marchnad y Frenhines yn y Rhyl yn dal heb weithredwr, a hynny bron i chwe mis ers i Grŵp Gwesty a Hamdden Mikhail dynnu'n ôl yn anffodus. Mae pobl leol yn dechrau gweld y datblygiad newydd fel eliffant gwyn, gyda dros £12 miliwn wedi'i fuddsoddi yn yr hyn a oedd yn cael ei weld flwyddyn yn ôl fel cnewyllyn gweithgaredd manwerthu, ond mae hwnnw, bedair blynedd yn ddiweddarach, bellach yn adeilad gwag. Credaf y gallai Marchnad y Frenhines fod yn gatalydd i adfywio'r dref, ond mae'n annerbyniol, ar ôl cryn amser a swm sylweddol o arian trethdalwyr a fuddsoddwyd, nad yw'r farchnad yn weithredol o hyd.
Hoffai fy etholwyr weld rhywfaint o oruchwyliaeth dros sut mae eu harian yn cael ei wario. Hoffent i Lywodraeth Cymru sicrhau, pan fyddant yn gwario arian trethdalwyr ar y datblygiad, eu bod yn sicrhau bod trethdalwyr yn gweld canlyniadau eu buddsoddiad ac nad anghofir am yr arian. Felly, a gaf i ddatganiad i gadarnhau i'm hetholwyr y bydd y Llywodraeth hon yn gweithio gyda Chyngor Sir Ddinbych i sicrhau bod y prosiect hir-ddisgwyliedig hwn yn sicrhau gweithredwr ac yn dechrau bod o fudd i'r dref yn hytrach na bod yn eliffant gwyn drud na all neb gael mynediad ato?
Which, of course, we wouldn't want to see. You have raised the question of Queen's Market, and it's important that that is a partnership approach with funding from a number of sources. Clearly, the Cabinet Secretary will be aware of this point, and we will follow it up in terms of the latest position, particularly the responsibilities of Denbighshire County Council.
Wrth gwrs, ni fyddem eisiau gweld hynny. Rydych wedi codi cwestiwn Marchnad y Frenhines, ac mae'n bwysig bod hynny'n ddull partneriaeth gyda chyllid o nifer o ffynonellau. Yn amlwg, bydd yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet yn ymwybodol o'r pwynt hwn, a byddwn yn mynd ar ei drywydd o ran y sefyllfa ddiweddaraf, yn enwedig cyfrifoldebau Cyngor Sir Ddinbych.
Diolch i'r Trefnydd.
I thank the Trefnydd.
Eitem 4 heddiw yw'r datganiad gan y Gweinidog Gofal Cymdeithasol ar y Bil Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol (Cymru). Galwaf ar y Gweinidog, Dawn Bowden.
Item 4 today is the statement by the Minister for Social Care on the Health and Social Care (Wales) Bill. I call on the Minister, Dawn Bowden.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Yesterday, I laid the Health and Social Care (Wales) Bill before the Senedd. Can I place on record my thanks to both my predecessor, Julie Morgan, and to the former designated Member from Plaid Cymru, Siân Gwenllian, for the work that they have done on bringing the Bill to the point where it is now? Diolch yn fawr.
The Bill sets out two principal provisions: to prevent the extraction of private profit from certain types of children’s social care, and to give people the ability to request direct payments in relation to NHS continuing healthcare. It also supports the ongoing effective operation of our two flagship social services Acts.
All the proposals set out in this Bill have been the subject of extensive consultation and engagement with the public and with stakeholders. The eliminating profit provisions will restrict the extraction of private profit in the provision of care home services provided wholly or mainly to children, secure accommodation services, and fostering services. It will do this by ensuring that any new provider of a restricted children’s service other than a local authority must be a not-for-profit entity after the provisions come into force.
A 'not-for-profit entity' is defined in the Bill as a charitable company limited by guarantee without a share capital; a charitable incorporated organisation; a charitable registered society; or a community interest company limited by guarantee without a share capital.
The children’s social care market is fragmented and complex and there is a lack of placements of the right kind, in the right places. This means that children do not have access to care and accommodation that meets their needs, and that too often they are being placed far from their local communities where they have established links.
In developing this Bill, we have been guided by what young people have told us. They have very strong feelings about being cared for by privately owned organisations that profit from their experience of being in care. Under our proposals, the future residential care, secure accommodation and foster care of children that are looked after in Wales will be provided by public sector, charitable or not-for-profit organisations.
The Bill is one part of our wider programme to transform children’s services. We want fewer children taken into care. We want services to provide the right support for families, at the right time, to help them to stay together, wherever possible. When children are taken in care, we want them to be looked after as close to home as possible, with the right support for their needs. And when young people are ready to leave care, we will support them to plan for the future and to lead independent lives.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Ddoe, gosodais y Bil Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol (Cymru) gerbron y Senedd. A gaf i gofnodi fy niolch i'm rhagflaenydd, Julie Morgan, ac i'r cyn Aelod dynodedig o Blaid Cymru, Siân Gwenllian, am y gwaith y maent wedi'i wneud i ddod â'r Bil i'r pwynt lle mae nawr? Diolch yn fawr.
Mae'r Bil yn nodi dau brif ddarpariaeth: atal tynnu elw preifat allan o rai mathau o ofal cymdeithasol plant, a rhoi'r gallu i bobl ofyn am daliadau uniongyrchol mewn cysylltiad â gofal iechyd parhaus y GIG. Mae hefyd yn cefnogi gweithrediad effeithiol parhaus ein dwy Ddeddf gwasanaethau cymdeithasol blaenllaw.
Mae'r holl gynigion a nodir yn y Bil hwn wedi bod yn destun ymgynghori ac ymgysylltu helaeth â'r cyhoedd a chyda rhanddeiliaid. Bydd y darpariaethau ar gyfer dileu elw yn cyfyngu ar y gallu i dynnu elw preifat wrth ddarparu gwasanaethau cartrefi gofal a ddarperir yn gyfan gwbl neu'n bennaf i blant, gwasanaethau llety diogel, a gwasanaethau maethu. Bydd yn gwneud hyn drwy sicrhau bod yn rhaid i unrhyw ddarparwr gwasanaeth plant cyfyngedig newydd ac eithrio awdurdod lleol fod yn endid nid-er-elw ar ôl i'r darpariaethau ddod i rym.
Diffinnir 'endid nid-er-elw' yn y Bil fel cwmni elusennol cyfyngedig drwy warant heb gyfalaf cyfrannau; sefydliad elusennol corfforedig; cymdeithas gofrestredig elusennol; neu gwmni buddiant cymunedol cyfyngedig drwy warant heb gyfalaf cyfrannau.
Mae'r farchnad gofal cymdeithasol i blant yn dameidiog ac yn gymhleth ac mae diffyg lleoliadau o'r math cywir, yn y mannau cywir. Mae hyn yn golygu nad oes gan blant fynediad at ofal a llety sy'n diwallu eu hanghenion, ac yn rhy aml maent yn cael eu lleoli ymhell o'u cymunedau lleol lle maent wedi sefydlu cysylltiadau.
Wrth ddatblygu'r Bil hwn, rydym wedi cael ein harwain gan yr hyn y mae pobl ifanc wedi'i ddweud wrthym. Mae ganddyn nhw deimladau cryf iawn ynghylch cael gofal gan sefydliadau preifat sy'n elwa ar eu profiad o fod mewn gofal. O dan ein cynigion, bydd gofal preswyl, llety diogel a gofal maeth plant sy'n derbyn gofal yng Nghymru, yn y dyfodol yn cael eu darparu gan sefydliadau sector cyhoeddus, elusennol neu nid-er-elw.
Mae'r Bil yn un rhan o'n rhaglen ehangach i drawsnewid gwasanaethau plant. Rydyn ni eisiau i lai o blant gael eu derbyn i ofal. Rydym eisiau i wasanaethau ddarparu'r cymorth cywir i deuluoedd, ar yr adeg iawn, i'w helpu i aros gyda'i gilydd, lle bynnag y bo modd. Pan fydd plant yn cael eu derbyn i ofal, rydym eisiau iddynt gael gofal mor agos at eu cartrefi â phosibl, gyda'r cymorth cywir ar gyfer eu hanghenion. A phan fydd pobl ifanc yn barod i adael gofal, byddwn yn eu cefnogi i gynllunio ar gyfer y dyfodol ac i fyw bywyd annibynnol.
Dirprwy Lywydd, the second main provision in the Bill relates to the provision of NHS continuing healthcare. It seeks to amend the National Health Service (Wales) Act 2006 to allow the Welsh Ministers to make direct payments to individuals who, having been assessed as having a primary health need, are therefore entitled to receive continuing healthcare. This will enable them to directly secure services to meet their assessed needs for social care and some delegated healthcare tasks, in lieu of receiving services provided or commissioned by the NHS in Wales. This will give this group of people a greater voice and greater control over the management of their health needs.
The Bill also makes a number of amendments to the regulation of social care services and the social care workforce, to help the regulatory framework operate more effectively. Part 1 of the Regulation and Inspection of Social Care (Wales) Act 2016 provides the regulatory regime for regulated services, service providers and designated responsible individuals. Here, the proposed amendments aim to improve the functionality of the regulatory framework and assist Care Inspectorate Wales in fulfilling its regulatory responsibilities in relation to registering, inspecting and taking action to improve the quality and safety of regulated care services in Wales.
The amendments cover four main areas. These are: the duty to submit and publish annual returns; information to be provided in relation to an application for cancellation of a service provider’s registration; cancellation of a service provider’s registration without application; and a power to require information in relation to inspections. In addition, the Bill makes an amendment to the 2016 Act in relation to the functions of Social Care Wales as the registrar and regulator of social care workers in Wales. The amendment relates to the powers of Social Care Wales to review and extend interim orders. Interim orders enable temporary restrictions to be imposed upon a registered person while investigations are undertaken into allegations made against that individual.
The amendment seeks to provide an interim orders panel, or a fitness-to-practice panel before which interim order proceedings are brought, with the power to extend the duration of an interim order up to a maximum of 18 months from the date the interim order is first made, without an application being required to the first-tier tribunal.
The Bill also amends section 79 of the 2016 Act to provide Welsh Ministers with the power, by regulations, to extend the definition of 'social care workers' for the purpose of the Act to include all childcare and play workers. For the purpose of this amendment, childcare and play workers are the individuals who are employed by, or who work for, a person registered under Part 2 of the Children and Families (Wales) Measure 2010 as a daycare provider, to provide care and supervision for children. The amendment will enable regulations to be made modifying the definition of 'social care worker' as it pertains to childcare, thus providing a formal basis for the support Social Care Wales provides to all those in the childcare and play workforce.
Finally, the Bill includes provision to improve the alignment between the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014 and current practice. Importantly, this includes an amendment to reconfigure the provisions in Part 4 of the 2014 Act that enable the making of direct payments by local authorities. This amendment will enable a direct payment to be made to a third party nominated by an individual entitled to receive such a payment, in cases where the individual has mental capacity to make that decision.
As I said in my written statement yesterday, I look forward to working with Members and to continued engagement with stakeholders during scrutiny of the Health and Social Care (Wales) Bill over the coming months. Diolch yn fawr.
Dirprwy Lywydd, mae'r ail brif ddarpariaeth yn y Bil yn ymwneud â darparu gofal iechyd parhaus y GIG. Mae'n ceisio diwygio Deddf y Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol (Cymru) 2006 i ganiatáu i Weinidogion Cymru wneud taliadau uniongyrchol i unigolion sydd, ar ôl cael eu hasesu fel rhai sydd ag angen iechyd sylfaenol, felly, â hawl i gael gofal iechyd parhaus. Bydd hyn yn eu galluogi i sicrhau gwasanaethau yn uniongyrchol i ddiwallu eu hanghenion a aseswyd ar gyfer gofal cymdeithasol a rhai tasgau gofal iechyd dirprwyedig, yn lle derbyn gwasanaethau a ddarperir neu a gomisiynir gan y GIG yng Nghymru. Bydd hyn yn rhoi mwy o lais a mwy o reolaeth i'r grŵp hwn o bobl dros reoli eu hanghenion iechyd.
Mae'r Bil hefyd yn gwneud nifer o welliannau i reoleiddio gwasanaethau gofal cymdeithasol a'r gweithlu gofal cymdeithasol, i helpu'r fframwaith rheoleiddio i weithredu'n fwy effeithiol. Mae Rhan 1 o Ddeddf Rheoleiddio ac Arolygu Gofal Cymdeithasol (Cymru) 2016 yn darparu'r drefn reoleiddio ar gyfer gwasanaethau rheoleiddiedig, darparwyr gwasanaethau ac unigolion cyfrifol dynodedig. Yma, nod y gwelliannau arfaethedig yw gwella ymarferoldeb y fframwaith rheoleiddio a chynorthwyo Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru i gyflawni ei chyfrifoldebau rheoleiddio mewn cysylltiad â chofrestru, arolygu a gweithredu i wella ansawdd a diogelwch gwasanaethau gofal rheoledig yng Nghymru.
Mae'r newidiadau yn cwmpasu pedwar prif faes. Y rhain yw: y ddyletswydd i gyflwyno a chyhoeddi ffurflenni blynyddol; gwybodaeth sydd i'w darparu mewn cysylltiad â chais i ganslo cofrestriad darparwr gwasanaeth; canslo cofrestriad darparwr gwasanaeth heb gais; a phŵer i ofyn am wybodaeth mewn cysylltiad ag arolygiadau. Yn ogystal, mae'r Bil yn gwneud gwelliant i Ddeddf 2016 mewn cysylltiad â swyddogaethau Gofal Cymdeithasol Cymru fel cofrestrydd a rheoleiddiwr gweithwyr gofal cymdeithasol yng Nghymru. Mae'r gwelliant yn ymwneud â phwerau Gofal Cymdeithasol Cymru i adolygu ac ymestyn gorchmynion dros dro. Mae gorchmynion dros dro yn galluogi gorfodi cyfyngiadau dros dro ar berson cofrestredig tra bod ymchwiliadau'n cael eu cynnal i honiadau a wneir yn erbyn yr unigolyn hwnnw.
Mae'r gwelliant yn ceisio darparu panel gorchmynion dros dro, neu banel addasrwydd i ymarfer y dygir trafodion gorchymyn interim o'i flaen, gyda'r pŵer i ymestyn hyd gorchymyn interim hyd at uchafswm o 18 mis o'r dyddiad y gwneir y gorchymyn interim gyntaf, heb fod angen cais i'r tribiwnlys haen gyntaf.
Mae'r Bil hefyd yn diwygio adran 79 o Ddeddf 2016 i roi'r pŵer i Weinidogion Cymru, drwy reoliadau, ymestyn y diffiniad o 'gweithwyr gofal cymdeithasol' at ddibenion y Ddeddf i gynnwys pob gweithiwr gofal plant a chwarae. At ddibenion y gwelliant hwn, gweithwyr gofal plant a chwarae yw'r unigolion sy'n cael eu cyflogi gan, neu sy'n gweithio i berson sydd wedi'i gofrestru o dan Ran 2 o Fesur Plant a Theuluoedd (Cymru) 2010 fel darparwr gofal dydd, i ddarparu gofal a goruchwyliaeth i blant. Bydd y gwelliant yn galluogi rheoliadau i gael eu gwneud gan addasu'r diffiniad o 'weithiwr gofal cymdeithasol' fel y mae'n ymwneud â gofal plant, a thrwy hynny ddarparu sail ffurfiol ar gyfer y cymorth y mae Gofal Cymdeithasol Cymru yn ei ddarparu i bawb yn y gweithlu gofal plant a chwarae.
Yn olaf, mae'r Bil yn cynnwys darpariaeth i wella'r aliniad rhwng Deddf Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol a Llesiant (Cymru) 2014 ac arfer cyfredol. Yn bwysig, mae hyn yn cynnwys gwelliant i ad-drefnu'r darpariaethau yn Rhan 4 o Ddeddf 2014 sy'n galluogi awdurdodau lleol i wneud taliadau uniongyrchol. Bydd y gwelliant hwn yn galluogi gwneud taliad uniongyrchol i drydydd parti a enwebwyd gan unigolyn sydd â hawl i gael taliad o'r fath, mewn achosion lle mae gan yr unigolyn alluedd meddyliol i wneud y penderfyniad hwnnw.
Fel y dywedais i yn fy natganiad ysgrifenedig ddoe, edrychaf ymlaen at weithio gydag Aelodau ac at barhau i ymgysylltu â rhanddeiliaid wrth graffu ar y Bil Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol (Cymru) dros y misoedd nesaf. Diolch yn fawr.
Thank you for your statement, Minister, and thank you for briefing opposition spokespeople this morning. Let me say at the outset that there is much to be welcomed in this Bill, and it will have our general support.
I was concerned, before our meeting, that the goal of this Bill was ideologically drawn based upon an imperfect stance that profit is bad. For-profit is not incompatible with caring for the most vulnerable in our society: children in care. The majority of independent care providers, which provide three quarters of all looked-after children's care services in Wales, are small operators who provide excellent care. We should not be penalising these providers because they are private businesses. Profiting, on the other hand, is something else. When you speak to the majority of independent providers, they agree that public money should not be used to benefit sovereign wealth funds and large corporate shareholders.
Qatari and United Arab Emirates private equity firms have no place running children's services in Wales, but the likes of Amberleigh Care and Landsker Child Care should absolutely be allowed to continue providing excellent care. They are not in it for profit; they run a business to invest in outstanding care for looked-after children. I was therefore relieved to hear you say that profit is not the issue; it is what happens to that profit that matters. In this you have my full support and, I dare say, the support of the majority of providers in Wales. As ever, the devil is in the detail, but we can all agree that nobody should be profiting from the wonderful children. Public money should not be taken out of Wales to benefit hedge-fund managers overseas. Minister, what steps are you taking to encourage private for-profit providers in Wales to move to one of the models outlined in your statement prior to this Bill achieving Royal Assent?
With regard to Part 2 of the Bill, the introduction of the direct payment of continuing healthcare is most welcome. This will help ensure equality for many people, particularly disabled people, giving them choice and control over their treatment. Minister, direct payments have been transformational in social care for many people. How will you encourage more people to take up direct payments?
Regarding the final part of the Bill, while much of it is technical in nature, it is nonetheless also important—ensuring the full competence test applies to the social services and well-being Act is vital for ensuring the quality of continuing healthcare services. Minister, one of the changes is the redefinition of those who provide care and supervision of children as social workers. What assessment has been made of the impact that this will have on the childcare workforce?
Finally, Minister, the Presiding Officer's note accompanying the Bill states that paragraph 4 of Schedule 2 is not within the competence of this Senedd. What discussions have you had with the UK Government regarding consent for this part of the Bill?
Thank you once again for your statement and briefing, and I look forward to working with you to deliver the aims of this Bill, namely better care and support for the people of Wales, particularly wonderful children. Thank you very much.
Diolch am eich datganiad, Gweinidog, a diolch am friffio llefarwyr yr wrthblaid y bore yma. Gadewch imi ddweud ar y dechrau bod llawer i'w groesawu yn y Bil hwn, a chaiff ein cefnogaeth gyffredinol.
Roeddwn yn bryderus, cyn ein cyfarfod, fod nod y Bil hwn wedi'i lunio'n ideolegol ar sail agwedd amherffaith bod elw yn ddrwg. Nid yw er-elw yn anghydnaws â gofalu am y rhai mwyaf agored i niwed yn ein cymdeithas: plant mewn gofal. Mae mwyafrif y darparwyr gofal annibynnol, sy'n darparu tri chwarter o'r holl wasanaethau gofal i blant sy'n derbyn gofal yng Nghymru, yn weithredwyr bach sy'n darparu gofal rhagorol. Ni ddylem fod yn cosbi'r darparwyr hyn oherwydd eu bod yn fusnesau preifat. Mae elwa, ar y llaw arall, yn rhywbeth arall. Pan fyddwch yn siarad â'r mwyafrif o ddarparwyr annibynnol, maent yn cytuno na ddylid defnyddio arian cyhoeddus er budd cronfeydd cyfoeth sofran a chyfranddalwyr corfforaethol mawr.
Nid oes gan gwmnïau ecwiti preifat Qatar a'r Emiradau Arabaidd Unedig unrhyw le ym maes rhedeg gwasanaethau plant yng Nghymru, ond dylid caniatáu i bobl fel Amberleigh Care a Landsker Child Care barhau i ddarparu gofal rhagorol. Nid ydynt yn ei wneud er mwyn elw; maent yn rhedeg busnes i fuddsoddi mewn gofal rhagorol ar gyfer plant sy'n derbyn gofal. Roedd yn rhyddhad imi felly eich clywed yn dweud nad elw yw'r mater; yr hyn sy'n digwydd i'r elw hwnnw sy'n bwysig. Yn hyn o beth, mae gennych chi fy nghefnogaeth lawn ac, rwy'n meiddio dweud, cefnogaeth y mwyafrif o ddarparwyr yng Nghymru. Fel erioed, mae'r diafol yn y manylion, ond gallwn i gyd gytuno na ddylai neb fod yn elwa ar blant gwych. Ni ddylid cymryd arian cyhoeddus allan o Gymru er budd rheolwyr cronfeydd rhagfantoli tramor. Gweinidog, pa gamau ydych chi'n eu cymryd i annog darparwyr preifat er-elw yng Nghymru i symud i un o'r modelau a amlinellir yn eich datganiad cyn i'r Bil hwn gael Cydsyniad Brenhinol?
O ran Rhan 2 o'r Bil, mae croeso mawr i'r cynnig i gyflwyno taliad uniongyrchol ar gyfer gofal iechyd parhaus. Bydd hyn yn helpu i sicrhau cydraddoldeb i lawer o bobl, yn enwedig pobl anabl, gan roi dewis a rheolaeth iddynt dros eu triniaeth. Gweinidog, mae taliadau uniongyrchol wedi bod yn drawsnewidiol ym maes gofal cymdeithasol i lawer o bobl. Sut y byddwch yn annog mwy o bobl i dderbyn taliadau uniongyrchol?
O ran rhan olaf y Bil, er bod llawer ohoni'n dechnegol ei natur, serch hynny mae'n bwysig hefyd—mae sicrhau bod y prawf cymhwysedd llawn yn berthnasol i'r Ddeddf gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a llesiant yn hanfodol er mwyn sicrhau ansawdd gwasanaethau gofal iechyd parhaus. Gweinidog, un o'r newidiadau yw ailddiffinio'r rhai sy'n darparu gofal a goruchwyliaeth i blant fel gweithwyr cymdeithasol. Pa asesiad sydd wedi'i wneud o'r effaith y bydd hyn yn ei chael ar y gweithlu gofal plant?
Yn olaf, Gweinidog, mae nodyn y Llywydd sy'n cyd-fynd â'r Bil yn nodi nad yw paragraff 4 o Atodlen 2 o fewn cymhwysedd y Senedd hon. Pa drafodaethau ydych chi wedi'u cael gyda Llywodraeth y DU ynglŷn â chaniatâd ar gyfer y rhan hon o'r Bil?
Diolch unwaith eto am eich datganiad a'ch briff, ac edrychaf ymlaen at weithio gyda chi i gyflawni nodau'r Bil hwn, sef gwell gofal a chymorth i bobl Cymru, yn enwedig plant gwych. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Diolch yn fawr, and thank you for those comments, Altaf, and I welcome very much your general support for the Bill. We've set out very clearly what we're looking to achieve in this Bill, because we just don't believe—. Our starting point is that we don't believe that there should be a market for the care of some of the most vulnerable children in our society. These are children who have been through the most traumatic of times who end up in the care system, and we have to offer them the best care that we can in whatever way we can. That means that any money coming into the system must be reinvested into the system. That's why we're looking to take the private profit out of childcare, so that that can be reinvested, because this market is not currently functioning effectively. We want to ensure that that money goes back into the system.
You're quite right, there are many good private providers out there, and what we have done is we have set up an elimination implementation board that has been operating for a couple of years now in preparation for the work that we're seeking to do through this legislation, and there are private providers on that board, there are third sector providers, there is the local authority that sits on that board, the children's commissioner, a representative from Voices from Care Cymru, who are in the gallery today, we have trade unions there, we have the service commissioners, all sat around the table working through how we model this changed approach to the provision of children's residential services. And I know that many of those private providers are in active and encouraging conversations with us about how they can transfer their operation into a not-for-profit model. There will not be a cliff edge for profit providers of children's services; there will be a transition process that we go through, and throughout that period, up to the point where not-for-profit will be the only provision available in Wales. Those providers will be involved in that discussion.
In terms of direct payments, you're absolutely right. The direct payments for continuing healthcare, which has been available in England for about 10 years, and the feedback that we have had from the recipients of direct care payments for continuing healthcare in England has been very positive. The well-being and the response and the resilience of individuals in receipt of those direct payments has been vastly improved by them having that choice and that voice over the way in which that continuing healthcare is provided to them by somebody that they directly employ to provide that support for them in their home.
So, I'm very hopeful that the few people that we have that are not in that space at the moment, when we promote what we are seeking to do, will apply for a continuing healthcare assessment from the NHS so that they can use their voice to direct the way in which their care services are provided. For many of those people, they are already in receipt of direct care payments for social care, but their care—some of those people—extends beyond what social care provides, but they have resisted transferring, if you like, to continuing healthcare, because that will take away the control and the direct voice that a direct payment would give them. So, I'm very hopeful that by introducing a direct payment for continuing healthcare we will see people get the appropriate care they need from their health provision.
You've noted, Altaf, that the last section of the Bill is primarily a technical one. It is about regularising the regulations in the two social care Bills to make sure that they marry up with this new legislation, and in terms of the childcare workers that you've referred to, it is about putting them on a regular footing as recognised professional childcare workers under the auspices of Social Care Wales. So, we see that as a very positive move in the professionalisation of childcare workers.
Diolch yn fawr, a diolch am y sylwadau yna, Altaf, ac rwy'n croesawu eich cefnogaeth gyffredinol i'r Bil yn fawr. Rydyn ni wedi nodi'n glir iawn beth rydyn ni'n ceisio ei gyflawni yn y Bil hwn, oherwydd nid ydym yn credu—. Ein man cychwyn yw nad ydym yn credu y dylai fod marchnad ar gyfer gofalu am rai o'r plant mwyaf agored i niwed yn ein cymdeithas. Plant yw'r rhain sydd wedi bod trwy'r cyfnod mwyaf trawmatig ac yn y diwedd yn dod i mewn i'r system ofal, ac mae'n rhaid i ni gynnig y gofal gorau y gallwn ni iddyn nhw ym mha bynnag ffordd y gallwn. Mae hynny'n golygu bod yn rhaid ailfuddsoddi unrhyw arian sy'n dod i mewn i'r system. Dyna pam rydyn ni'n bwriadu cymryd yr elw preifat allan o ofal plant, fel y gellir ail-fuddsoddi hwnnw, oherwydd nid yw'r farchnad hon yn gweithio'n effeithiol ar hyn o bryd. Rydym eisiau sicrhau bod yr arian hwnnw'n mynd yn ôl i'r system.
Rydych chi'n llygad eich lle, mae yna lawer o ddarparwyr preifat da allan yna, a'r hyn rydyn ni wedi'i wneud yw sefydlu bwrdd gweithredu dileu sydd wedi bod yn gweithredu ers cwpl o flynyddoedd bellach i baratoi ar gyfer y gwaith rydyn ni'n ceisio ei wneud trwy'r ddeddfwriaeth hon, ac mae darparwyr preifat ar y bwrdd hwnnw, mae darparwyr trydydd sector, mae yna awdurdod lleol sy'n eistedd ar y bwrdd hwnnw, y Comisiynydd Plant, cynrychiolydd o Voices from Care Cymru, sydd yn yr oriel heddiw, mae gennym undebau llafur yno, mae gennym y comisiynwyr gwasanaeth, i gyd yn eistedd o gwmpas y bwrdd yn gweithio trwy sut rydym yn modelu'r dull gweithredu newydd hwn o ddarparu gwasanaethau preswyl i blant. Ac rwy'n gwybod bod llawer o'r darparwyr preifat hynny mewn trafodaethau gweithredol a chalonogol gyda ni ynghylch sut y gallant drosglwyddo eu gweithrediad i fodel nid-er-elw. Ni fydd dibyn yn wynebu darparwyr er-elw gwasanaethau plant; bydd proses bontio y byddwn yn mynd drwyddi, a thrwy gydol y cyfnod hwnnw, hyd at y pwynt pryd mai darpariaeth nid-er-elw fydd yr unig ddarpariaeth ar gael yng Nghymru. Bydd y darparwyr hynny yn rhan o'r drafodaeth honno.
O ran taliadau uniongyrchol, rydych chi'n hollol gywir. Mae'r taliadau uniongyrchol ar gyfer gofal iechyd parhaus, sydd wedi bod ar gael yn Lloegr ers tua 10 mlynedd, a'r adborth a gawsom gan dderbynwyr taliadau gofal uniongyrchol am ofal iechyd parhaus yn Lloegr wedi bod yn gadarnhaol iawn. Mae llesiant ac ymateb a chydnerthedd unigolion sy'n derbyn y taliadau uniongyrchol hynny wedi gwella'n sylweddol gan fod ganddynt y dewis hwnnw a'r llais hwnnw dros y ffordd y darperir y gofal iechyd parhaus hwnnw iddynt gan rywun y maent yn ei gyflogi'n uniongyrchol i ddarparu'r cymorth hwnnw iddynt yn eu cartref.
Felly, rwy'n obeithiol iawn y bydd yr ychydig bobl sydd gennym nad ydynt yn y sefyllfa honno ar hyn o bryd, pan fyddwn ni'n hyrwyddo'r hyn yr ydym yn ceisio'i wneud, yn gwneud cais am asesiad gofal iechyd parhaus gan y GIG fel y gallant ddefnyddio eu llais i gyfarwyddo'r ffordd y darperir eu gwasanaethau gofal. I lawer o'r bobl hynny, maen nhw eisoes yn derbyn taliadau gofal uniongyrchol am ofal cymdeithasol, ond mae eu gofal—rhai o'r bobl hynny—yn ymestyn y tu hwnt i'r hyn y mae gofal cymdeithasol yn ei ddarparu, ond maen nhw wedi gwrthsefyll trosglwyddo, os mynnwch, i ofal iechyd parhaus, oherwydd byddai hynny'n dileu'r rheolaeth a'r llais uniongyrchol y byddai taliad uniongyrchol yn ei roi iddyn nhw. Felly, rwy'n obeithiol iawn, drwy gyflwyno taliad uniongyrchol am ofal iechyd parhaus y byddwn yn gweld pobl yn cael y gofal priodol sydd ei angen arnynt drwy eu darpariaeth iechyd.
Rydych chi wedi nodi, Altaf, fod rhan olaf y Bil yn un dechnegol yn bennaf. Mae'n ymwneud ag unioni'r rheoliadau yn y ddau Fil gofal cymdeithasol i sicrhau eu bod yn cyd-fynd â'r ddeddfwriaeth newydd hon, ac o ran y gweithwyr gofal plant rydych chi wedi cyfeirio atyn nhw, mae'n ymwneud â'u rhoi ar sylfaen reolaidd fel gweithwyr gofal plant proffesiynol cydnabyddedig o dan nawdd Gofal Cymdeithasol Cymru. Felly, rydym yn gweld hynny fel cam cadarnhaol iawn ym maes proffesiynoli gweithwyr gofal plant.
Mae Plaid Cymru yn gadarn yn ein cred y dylai ein gwasanaethau iechyd a gofal gael eu rhedeg er budd y bobl, nid er budd masnachol. Yn wahanol i'r Blaid Geidwadol, ac elfennau nid ansylweddol o'r Blaid Lafur, sy'n cynnwys Gweinidog iechyd cysgodol San Steffan, rydyn ni'n gwrthod yn llwyr y gred mai'r farchnad sydd yn gwybod orau pan fo'n dod at iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol. Rydym felly yn croesawu'r ffaith y bydd y ddeddfwriaeth yma'n delifro ar ein daliadau craidd, ac mae'n rhywbeth yr ydym wedi bod yn gweithio gyda'r Llywodraeth arno drwy'r cytundeb blaenorol, sef cael gwared ar yr elfen o elw allan o'r sector gofal plant.
Mae'r angen i ddiwygio'r maes yma wedi bod yn amlwg ers tro, ac rydym, fel plaid, wedi cyfeirio'n aml at oblygiadau niweidiol i ddarpariaeth ac ansawdd y gwasanaethau hanfodol hyn o gael eu pennu gan rymoedd y farchnad.
Plaid Cymru is firm in its belief that health services and care services should be run for the benefit of the people, not for commercial gain. Unlike the Conservative Party and not unsubstantial elements of the Labour Party, including the shadow health Minister in Westminster, we totally reject the belief that the market knows best when it comes to health and social care. We therefore welcome the fact that this legislation will deliver on our core principles, and it is something that we have been working with the Government on through the previous co-operation agreement to remove the element of profit from childcare.
The need to reform this area has been clear for some time, and, as a party, we've often referred to the damaging impacts to the quality and provision of these services through market forces.
As was made clear in the Competition and Markets Authority report of 2022, the market for the sector is currently skewed heavily and disproportionately in favour of private suppliers, who have been able to charge premium prices, as the ability of local authorities to provide their own foster care has been severely compromised by the impact of 14 years of Tory-run, driven austerity. In many cases, this has opened the door for equity firms to cash in on the plight of some of the most vulnerable individuals in our society—a shameful indictment of the creeping privatisation of our health and social care service.
From a practical perspective, the over-reliance on private suppliers in Wales, which currently account for almost 80 per cent of all placements of children looked after, has also engendered considerable insecurity in the sector. The CMA report showed how the prevalence of debt amongst private providers carries a high risk of companies leaving the market at short notice, with disruptive consequences for the children under their care.
The state of the market also pays little regard to geographic location, which is a factor of paramount importance for the well-being of children looked after. As such, whereas 84 per cent of children in local authority foster care in Wales remain in their local area, ensuring a vital degree of continuity in their lives during a period of inherent uncertainty, 79 per cent of children in private fostering are cared for outside their local area, and 6 per cent are moved out of Wales entirely.
But the most compelling case for change surely comes from the testimonies of the children themselves, which demonstrate widespread dissatisfaction and discomfort at how their circumstances can be used as a vehicle for profiteering. Their voices must always take precedence in this debate, and by creating new requirements for all care providers in Wales to register as not-for-profit entities, we can ensure they are being listened to.
But while this Government have funded local authorities over three years to prepare for the transition of this legislation, there is a question mark as to the preparedness of many local authorities. So, can the Minister give us an assurance that local authorities are in fact prepared for this change?
Turning to the other aspects of the Bill, we support the introduction of a legal duty for reporting on children and adults at risk of exploitation, in line with the recommendations of the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse. It is essential this duty is underpinned by robust support mechanisms for the affected individuals, which should include a children's rights approach in the case of minors. The reporting guidelines should also be developed so as to prevent creating a de facto hierarchy of abuse cases. The Minister will also be aware that the UK Home Office intends to legislate for mandatory reporting of child sexual abuse as part of the Criminal Justice Bill, and I would welcome her view on how this will interact with the proposals in this piece of legislation in front of us today.
Finally, while the Government is right to address the shortcomings in the current legislative framework regarding direct payments for those eligible for continuing NHS healthcare, it is vital that local authorities are provided with the requisite resources to manage this additional responsibility. So, I'd be grateful, therefore, if the Minister could give an indication of the expected annual cost to local authorities as a result of these changes, and explain how the revenue support grant will be upscaled to accommodate them.
Fel y gwnaed yn glir yn adroddiad yr Awdurdod Cystadleuaeth a Marchnadoedd 2022, mae'r farchnad ar gyfer y sector ar hyn o bryd yn gogwyddo'n drwm ac yn anghymesur o blaid cyflenwyr preifat, sydd wedi gallu codi prisiau premiwm, gan fod gallu awdurdodau lleol i ddarparu eu gofal maeth eu hunain wedi cael ei beryglu'n ddifrifol gan effaith 14 mlynedd o gyni a ysgogwyd gan y Torïaid. Mewn llawer o achosion, mae hyn wedi agor y drws i gwmnïau ecwiti i elwa ar anffawd rhai o'r unigolion mwyaf agored i niwed yn ein cymdeithas—beirniadaeth gywilyddus o'r ffordd mae ein gwasanaeth iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yn cael ei breifateiddio gam wrth gam.
O safbwynt ymarferol, mae'r orddibyniaeth ar gyflenwyr preifat yng Nghymru, sydd ar hyn o bryd yn cyfrif am bron i 80 y cant o'r holl leoliadau plant sy'n derbyn gofal, hefyd wedi achosi ansicrwydd sylweddol yn y sector. Dangosodd adroddiad yr Awdurdod Cystadleuaeth a Marchnadoedd sut mae nifer yr achosion o ddyled ymhlith darparwyr preifat yn peri risg uchel y bydd cwmnïau'n gadael y farchnad ar fyr rybudd, gyda chanlyniadau trafferthus i'r plant yn eu gofal.
Nid yw cyflwr y farchnad ychwaith yn talu fawr o sylw i leoliad daearyddol, sy'n ffactor o'r pwysigrwydd mwyaf ar gyfer llesiant plant sy'n derbyn gofal. O'r herwydd, tra bod 84 y cant o blant mewn gofal maeth awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru yn aros yn eu hardal leol, gan sicrhau rhywfaint o barhad hanfodol yn eu bywydau yn ystod cyfnod o ansicrwydd cynhenid, mae 79 y cant o blant mewn maethu preifat yn derbyn gofal y tu allan i'w hardal leol, ac mae 6 y cant yn cael eu symud allan o Gymru yn gyfan gwbl.
Ond mae'n siŵr bod yr achos mwyaf cymhellol dros newid yn dod o dystiolaeth y plant eu hunain, sy'n dangos anfodlonrwydd ac anghysur eang ynghylch sut y gellir defnyddio eu hamgylchiadau nhw fel cyfrwng ar gyfer gwneud elw. Rhaid i'w lleisiau bob amser gael blaenoriaeth yn y ddadl hon, a thrwy greu gofynion newydd i bob darparwr gofal yng Nghymru gofrestru fel endidau nid-er-elw, gallwn sicrhau eu bod yn cael gwrandawiad.
Ond er bod y Llywodraeth hon wedi ariannu awdurdodau lleol dros dair blynedd i baratoi ar gyfer pontio'r ddeddfwriaeth hon, mae marc cwestiwn ynghylch parodrwydd llawer o awdurdodau lleol. Felly, a all y Gweinidog roi sicrwydd inni fod awdurdodau lleol wedi paratoi ar gyfer y newid hwn mewn gwirionedd?
Gan droi at agweddau eraill y Bil, rydym yn cefnogi cyflwyno dyletswydd gyfreithiol ar gyfer adrodd ar blant ac oedolion sydd mewn perygl o gael eu hecsbloetio, yn unol ag argymhellion yr ymchwiliad annibynnol i gam-drin plant yn rhywiol. Mae'n hanfodol bod y ddyletswydd hon yn cael ei hategu gan fecanweithiau cymorth cadarn ar gyfer yr unigolion yr effeithir arnynt, a ddylai gynnwys dull gweithredu hawliau plant yn achos plant dan oed. Dylid datblygu'r canllawiau adrodd hefyd er mwyn atal creu hierarchaeth de facto o achosion cam-drin. Bydd y Gweinidog hefyd yn ymwybodol bod Swyddfa Gartref y DU yn bwriadu deddfu ar gyfer adrodd gorfodol am gam-drin plant yn rhywiol fel rhan o'r Bil Cyfiawnder Troseddol, a byddwn yn croesawu ei barn ar sut y bydd hyn yn rhyngweithio â'r cynigion yn y darn hwn o ddeddfwriaeth sydd ger ein bron heddiw.
Yn olaf, er bod y Llywodraeth yn iawn i fynd i'r afael â'r diffygion yn y fframwaith deddfwriaethol presennol ynghylch taliadau uniongyrchol i'r rhai sy'n gymwys i gael gofal iechyd parhaus y GIG, mae'n hanfodol bod awdurdodau lleol yn cael yr adnoddau angenrheidiol i reoli'r cyfrifoldeb ychwanegol hwn. Felly, byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe gallai'r Gweinidog roi syniad o'r gost flynyddol ddisgwyliedig i awdurdodau lleol o ganlyniad i'r newidiadau hyn, ac egluro sut y bydd y grant cynnal refeniw yn cael ei uwchraddio i ddarparu ar eu cyfer.
Diolch yn fawr iawn unwaith eto am y datganiad, a dwi'n edrych ymlaen i gydweithio gyda'r Gweinidog er mwyn gwthio’r Bil yma ymlaen.
Thank you very much again for the statement, and I look forward to working with the Minister in order to push this Bill forward.
Diolch yn fawr, Mabon, and, again, thank you for your support for the Bill. It is a joint ambition. It has been a joint ambition of both Welsh Labour and Plaid Cymru, and I'm very pleased that we've got to this point now and, as I say, I'm very grateful for the work that we have done with Plaid to bring us to this point. And I absolutely agree with all the points that you made around the for-profit provision and the work that's been done by the Competition and Markets Authority, the work that they identified, or how they identified, the research that they produced that identified that we're seeing these organisations producing profits in the region of 22, 23 per cent. There was an article that you may or may not have seen over the weekend in The Guardian—it was a George Monbiot article over the weekend—that was talking about this—. It was from an English perspective, but the issues are exactly the same, and this is being addressed in a very similar way now in England. I think they've recognised that they have to do something like this. The costs that were being associated with placing one child in a residential care setting for a large for-profit organisation were something in the region of £280,000 for one child—around about £5,000 to £6,000 a week. Now, if you put that in the context of how much it costs to send a child to Eton, which is £46,000 a year, we could send six kids to Eton instead of putting one child in a residential setting run by a private company.
So, we absolutely know the challenges that exist. But you make a very good point about local authorities and their resilience and their ability to be able to plug the gaps that may come from removing private providers from the market. What I would say is, in the work that we've been doing on the elimination programme, we have been factoring in different scenarios. So, we have to look at—. We could have scenario A, which could be that no private providers transfer into the not-for-profit sector, to the very other extreme, where 100 per cent do, or somewhere in between.
Now, we're having some very positive discussions with a number of these providers, who are indicating their willingness to talk to us about moving their model of operation to not-for-profit, but we do appreciate, of course, that there could be some gaps, with not all of these providers wishing to move into the not-for-profit market, and so, therefore, we have to work with local authorities in building that resilience into the system that will enable them to deliver a not-for-profit service, whether they deliver it themselves directly as a local authority, or through one of the models that I set out in my statement.
But what I think is important to set out very clearly here is that this piece of legislation is not to be seen as a piece of legislation that sits in isolation. We have a whole transformation of children's services programme in Wales, which is largely preventative, and which is largely about working with families to keep families together, so that we have less demand for residential children's services, because it's the demand that's pushing the profits up. If a private provider can come in and can see a market, they will fill that market. That's what the private sector does. So, we are working with local authorities to build that resilience in through the different processes, and we know that there will be a cost to that. What I can't tell you at this moment in time, because that modelling is still taking place, for all the reasons I've just set out, is exactly how much that is going to cost. But we have made a commitment to delivering this legislation, and we will work with local authorities to find a way in which we can ensure that the resources that are required to deliver this are made available. But, as I say, this is not something that I can set out exactly at this moment in time, but through the course of the progress of this Bill, we will get a better idea, because a lot of the providers want to see more detail before they commit one way or the other.
In terms of the legal duties and the mandatory reporting, Mabon, you're quite right—we already have a mandatory reporting process in Wales. It is different to the model that they're proposing in England, but at this point in time we believe that the process that we have, which mandates organisations to report, is right for us and is right for Wales, but we will keep that under review, because we don't stand here and say that we've got everything right, but we do think that the process that we have is ahead of the process that was in place in England and that the current legislation in England is trying to address, but it is not our proposal at this stage to introduce mandatory reporting on individuals. We're retaining the organisational mandation for reporting at this stage.
Diolch yn fawr, Mabon, ac unwaith eto, diolch am eich cefnogaeth i'r Bil. Mae'n uchelgais ar y cyd. Mae wedi bod yn uchelgais ar y cyd gan Lafur Cymru a Phlaid Cymru, ac rwy'n falch iawn ein bod wedi cyrraedd y pwynt hwn nawr ac, fel y dywedais i, rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn am y gwaith yr ydym wedi'i wneud gyda Phlaid Cymru i'n dwyn i'r fan hon. Ac rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â'r holl bwyntiau a wnaethoch ynghylch y ddarpariaeth er-elw a'r gwaith a wnaed gan yr Awdurdod Cystadleuaeth a Marchnadoedd, y gwaith a nodwyd ganddynt, neu sut y gwnaethant nodi, yr ymchwil a gynhyrchwyd ganddynt sy'n nodi ein bod yn gweld y sefydliadau hyn yn cynhyrchu elw o tua 22, 23 y cant. Roedd erthygl, efallai i chi ei gweld dros y penwythnos ym mhapur The Guardian—erthygl George Monbiot oedd hi dros y penwythnos—roedd honno'n sôn am hyn—. Roedd o safbwynt Seisnig, ond mae'r materion yn union yr un fath, ac mae hyn yn cael sylw mewn ffordd debyg iawn yn awr yn Lloegr. Rwy'n credu eu bod wedi cydnabod bod yn rhaid iddynt wneud rhywbeth fel hyn. Roedd y costau oedd yn gysylltiedig â gosod un plentyn mewn lleoliad gofal preswyl ar gyfer sefydliad mawr er-elw tua £280,000 i un plentyn—tua £5,000 i £6,000 yr wythnos. Nawr, os ydych chi'n rhoi hynny yng nghyd-destun faint mae'n ei gostio i anfon plentyn i Eton, sef £46,000 y flwyddyn, gallem anfon chwe phlentyn i Eton yn hytrach na rhoi un plentyn mewn lleoliad preswyl sy'n cael ei redeg gan gwmni preifat.
Felly, rydym yn llwyr ymwybodol o'r heriau sy'n bodoli. Ond rydych chi'n gwneud pwynt da iawn am awdurdodau lleol a'u cydnerthedd a'u gallu i lenwi'r bylchau a allai godi yn sgil cael gwared ar ddarparwyr preifat o'r farchnad. Yr hyn fyddwn i'n ei ddweud yw, yn y gwaith rydyn ni wedi bod yn ei wneud ar y rhaglen ddileu, rydyn ni wedi bod yn ymgorffori gwahanol senarios. Felly, mae'n rhaid i ni edrych ar—. Gallem gael senario A, pan efallai nad oes unrhyw ddarparwr preifat yn trosglwyddo i'r sector nid-er-elw, ac i'r pegwn arall, efallai fod 100 y cant yn gwneud hynny, neu rywle rhwng y ddau begwn.
Nawr, rydym yn cael trafodaethau cadarnhaol iawn gyda nifer o'r darparwyr hyn, sy'n nodi eu parodrwydd i siarad â ni am symud eu model gweithredu i un nid-er-elw, ond rydym yn gwerthfawrogi, wrth gwrs, y gallai fod rhai bylchau, gyda phob un o'r darparwyr hyn yn dymuno symud i'r farchnad nid-er-elw, ac felly mae'n rhaid i ni weithio gydag awdurdodau lleol i adeiladu'r cydnerthedd hwnnw i'r system a fydd yn galluogi iddynt ddarparu gwasanaeth nid-er-elw, p'un a ydynt yn ei ddarparu eu hunain yn uniongyrchol fel awdurdod lleol, neu drwy un o'r modelau a amlinellais yn fy natganiad.
Ond yr hyn rwy'n credu sy'n bwysig i'w nodi'n glir iawn yma yw nad yw'r darn hwn o ddeddfwriaeth i'w weld fel darn o ddeddfwriaeth sy'n eistedd ar ei ben ei hun. Mae gennym raglen trawsnewid gwasanaethau plant gyfan yng Nghymru, sy'n ataliol i raddau helaeth, ac sy'n ymwneud yn bennaf â gweithio gyda theuluoedd i gadw teuluoedd gyda'i gilydd, fel bod llai o alw am wasanaethau preswyl i blant, oherwydd y galw sy'n gwthio'r elw i fyny. Os gall darparwr preifat ddod i mewn ac yn gallu gweld marchnad, bydd yn llenwi'r farchnad honno. Dyna beth mae'r sector preifat yn ei wneud. Felly, rydym yn gweithio gydag awdurdodau lleol i feithrin y cydnerthedd hwnnw drwy'r gwahanol brosesau, ac rydym yn gwybod y bydd cost i hynny. Yr hyn na allaf ei ddweud wrthych ar hyn o bryd, oherwydd bod y modelu hwnnw'n dal i ddigwydd, am yr holl resymau rwyf newydd eu nodi, yw faint yn union y bydd hynny'n ei gostio. Ond rydym wedi ymrwymo i gyflawni'r ddeddfwriaeth hon, a byddwn yn gweithio gydag awdurdodau lleol i ddod o hyd i ffordd y gallwn sicrhau bod yr adnoddau sydd eu hangen i gyflawni hyn ar gael. Ond, fel y dywedais i, nid yw hyn yn rhywbeth y gallaf ei nodi'n union ar hyn o bryd, ond trwy gydol cynnydd y Bil hwn, byddwn yn cael gwell syniad, oherwydd mae llawer o'r darparwyr eisiau gweld mwy o fanylion cyn iddynt ymrwymo un ffordd neu'r llall.
O ran y dyletswyddau cyfreithiol a'r adrodd gorfodol, Mabon, rydych chi'n hollol gywir—mae gennym eisoes broses adrodd orfodol yng Nghymru. Mae'n wahanol i'r model y maent yn ei gynnig yn Lloegr, ond ar hyn o bryd rydym yn credu bod y broses sydd gennym, sy'n gorfodi sefydliadau i adrodd, yn iawn i ni ac yn iawn i Gymru, ond byddwn yn parhau i adolygu hynny, oherwydd nid ydym yn sefyll yma ac yn dweud bod popeth yn iawn, ond rydym yn credu bod y broses sydd gennym ni ar y blaen i'r broses oedd ar waith yn Lloegr ac y mae'r ddeddfwriaeth bresennol yn Lloegr yn ceisio mynd i'r afael â hi, ond nid ydym yn cynnig ar hyn o bryd i gyflwyno adroddiadau gorfodol ar unigolion. Rydym yn cadw'r mandad sefydliadol ar gyfer adrodd ar hyn o bryd.
I thank the Minister for this important statement today. The Bill and the ambitions of the Bill have my full support, and I should place on record also thanks to Julie Morgan and indeed Mark Drakeford for the courage to bring and start this work. Minister, if I relate my comments to a petition that the Petitions Committee is currently considering from a resident of the Wrexham constituency, Lesley Griffiths's constituency, the petition calls for an increase in clarity and rights for people on direct payments or the Welsh independent living grant to live independently. The petitioner does have concerns; despite the principles of the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014, he calls for action to be taken, including better advocacy support, a dispute resolution process, better communication channels and a complaints procedure that has knowledge of Welsh law. I'm not sure if this has the scope of this particular Bill, but perhaps for its journey it may have. I'd be grateful for your thoughts on these calls, whether it's in this Bill or in other avenues.
Diolch i'r Gweinidog am y datganiad pwysig hwn heddiw. Rwy'n cefnogi'r Bil ac uchelgeisiau'r Bil yn llawn, a dylwn i roi ar gof a chadw hefyd fy niolch i Julie Morgan ac yn wir Mark Drakeford am ddangos dewrder wrth gyflwyno'r gwaith hwn a'i ddechrau. Gweinidog, os cysylltaf fy sylwadau â deiseb y mae'r Pwyllgor Deisebau yn ei hystyried ar hyn o bryd gan un o drigolion etholaeth Wrecsam, etholaeth Lesley Griffiths, mae'r ddeiseb yn galw am gynnydd mewn eglurder a hawliau i bobl ar daliadau uniongyrchol neu'n derbyn Grant Byw'n Annibynnol Cymru, allu byw'n annibynnol. Mae gan y deisebydd bryderon; er gwaethaf egwyddorion Deddf Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol a Llesiant (Cymru) 2014, mae'n galw am weithredu gan gynnwys gwell cymorth eiriolaeth, proses datrys anghydfodau, sianeli cyfathrebu gwell a gweithdrefn gwyno sydd â gwybodaeth am gyfraith Cymru. Nid wyf yn siŵr a yw hyn o fewn cwmpas y Bil penodol hwn, ond efallai ei fod ar gyfer ei daith. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar am eich sylwadau ar y galwadau hyn, boed hynny yn y Bil hwn neu mewn ffyrdd eraill.
Thank you for those points, Jack. And no, it doesn’t relate directly to this Bill, but the broad principles do, and I think that that’s important, because, more broadly, what we’re doing is we’re taking forward the programme of work that was set out by the disability rights taskforce, which would encompass the independent living allowance, and that brings together people with lived experience, the Welsh Government policy leads and representative organisations, and the work of that taskforce is based on that common understanding of the social disability model and co-production and so on. So, what we have done is we have introduced new guidance for local authorities that will require them to self-assess their performance and delivery against eight quality standards. That includes demonstrating with evidence how they promote the voice and control of individuals needing care and support to help them live as independently as possible, and they need to demonstrate how the views of the service users and carers are reflected in the authority’s assessment of its performance. So, we’re just continuing to work across the sector to ensure that those commitments are delivered in a timely manner, and I do expect to see clear progress made on them during the year, and I’m quite happy to report back or to write to you again, Jack, as we develop that as time goes on. Thank you.
Diolch am y pwyntiau yna, Jack. Ac na, nid yw'n ymwneud yn uniongyrchol â'r Bil hwn, ond mae'r egwyddorion eang yn berthnasol, ac rwy'n credu bod hynny'n bwysig, oherwydd, yn fwy cyffredinol, yr hyn yr ydym yn ei wneud yw bwrw ymlaen â'r rhaglen waith a nodwyd gan y tasglu hawliau anabledd, a fyddai'n cwmpasu'r lwfans byw annibynnol, ac sy'n dod â phobl â phrofiad bywyd at ei gilydd, arweinwyr polisi Llywodraeth Cymru a sefydliadau cynrychioliadol, ac mae gwaith y tasglu hwnnw yn seiliedig ar y ddealltwriaeth gyffredin honno o'r model anabledd cymdeithasol a'r cydgynhyrchu ac ati. Felly, yr hyn yr ydym wedi'i wneud yw cyflwyno canllawiau newydd i awdurdodau lleol a fydd yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol iddynt hunanasesu eu perfformiad a'u darpariaeth yn erbyn wyth safon ansawdd. Mae hynny'n cynnwys dangos gyda thystiolaeth sut maent yn hyrwyddo llais a rheolaeth unigolion sydd angen gofal a chymorth i'w helpu i fyw mor annibynnol â phosibl, ac mae angen iddynt ddangos sut mae barn defnyddwyr gwasanaethau a'r gofalwyr yn cael eu hadlewyrchu yn asesiad yr awdurdod o'i berfformiad. Felly, rydym yn parhau i weithio ar draws y sector i sicrhau bod yr ymrwymiadau hynny'n cael eu cyflawni'n brydlon, ac rwy'n disgwyl gweld cynnydd clir yn cael ei wneud arnynt yn ystod y flwyddyn, ac rwy'n hapus i adrodd yn ôl neu ysgrifennu atoch eto, Jack, wrth i ni ddatblygu hynny wrth i amser fynd yn ei flaen. Diolch.
Thank you so much for your statement, Cabinet Secretary. It’s really encouraging to hear this development. I am one of those former social workers who, out of desperation, would, sadly, end up placing a child in the last possible place that I wanted to place that child. We heard—. Some of us who were at a workshop last week on missing children, we heard powerful testimonies from local authorities and children’s organisations about how, tragically, children are going missing from residential establishments because they are desperate to get home. Now, how heartbreaking is that? That is what we’d all want to do, that is what we would naturally do, so I’m glad to hear from you that this is part of a transformational process, because, actually, we should be looking at the front end, as you say. So, we need to avoid children being placed in care, and, sadly, in Wales, we’ve seen the numbers go up in the last decade— not acceptable at all. So, I really want to appeal to you: what are your measurements for ensuring that we keep children at home? What are your targets for the next three years to ensure that we reduce the number of children looked after, and that we put the money into our front-line services, because that’s where it needs to be? Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Diolch yn fawr iawn am eich datganiad, Ysgrifennydd Cabinet. Mae'n galonogol iawn clywed am y datblygiad hwn. Rwy'n un o'r cyn-weithwyr cymdeithasol hynny a fyddai, allan o anobaith, yn anffodus, yn gorfod rhoi plentyn yn y lle diwethaf posibl yr oeddwn eisiau ei leoli. Clywsom—. Rhai ohonom a oedd mewn gweithdy yr wythnos diwethaf ar blant coll, clywsom dystiolaeth bwerus gan awdurdodau lleol a sefydliadau plant ynghylch sut, yn drasig, mae plant yn mynd ar goll o sefydliadau preswyl oherwydd eu bod yn ysu am gael bod adref. Pa mor ddigalon yw hynny? Dyna beth fyddem ni i gyd eisiau ei wneud, dyna beth fyddem ni'n ei wneud yn naturiol, felly rwy'n falch o glywed gennych fod hon yn rhan o broses drawsnewidiol, oherwydd, mewn gwirionedd, dylem fod yn edrych ar y pen blaen, fel y dywedwch chi. Felly, mae angen i ni osgoi rhoi plant mewn gofal, ac, yn anffodus, yng Nghymru, rydyn ni wedi gweld y niferoedd yn cynyddu yn y degawd diwethaf—ddim yn dderbyniol o gwbl. Felly, rwyf wir eisiau apelio arnoch chi: beth yw eich mesuriadau ar gyfer sicrhau ein bod yn cadw plant gartref? Beth yw eich targedau ar gyfer y tair blynedd nesaf i sicrhau ein bod yn lleihau nifer y plant sy'n derbyn gofal, a'n bod yn rhoi'r arian yn ein gwasanaethau rheng flaen, oherwydd dyna lle mae angen iddo fod? Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Thank you, Jane, for those comments, and I absolutely agree with everything you're saying. We are spending a huge amount of money on residential children’s services. If I tell you that, in 2017, we were spending £65 million on children’s residential services and this year that has risen to £200 million, and 80 per cent of that is going to private providers, for-profit providers, you can see the scale of the challenge that we face. And the reality of it is that, just on a financial basis, let alone the moral case for doing this—which I’ll come on to in a moment—but, just on a financial basis, that’s unsustainable. If we’re seeing those costs rising, trebling, in less than 10 years, and we carry on that trajectory for the next 10 years, we could be looking at children’s services, children’s residential services, costing us nearly £1 billion. The children’s services budget at the moment is around £350 million a year, £200 million of that on residential services, and a lot of those residential services and those residential placements, as you absolutely rightly say, are not where children want to be. And so, we have to make sure that the transformation programme that we are seeking to deliver is that preventative measure that reduces the number of children that are going to require residential care, and that will include—. Because this is not just about residential homes and residential placements in that sense; this is about improving the numbers—or increasing the numbers, sorry—of foster carers that we have in the system. We know, from the statement that I made last week, that we were talking about the need for us to find another 800 foster care families across Wales to meet some of the current demand. But the key to this, and I can't put figures on it at the moment, Jane, I wish I could, is we have to see how all of these policies are working, but they have to work for us to be able to bring the numbers of children in care down.
So, I am absolutely determined that these measures will be implemented, that we will put money into the preventative services where we will work with parents and with children to keep them at home where it is safe to do so. We've just had the report come in now from the family, drug and alcohol court pilot, and I'm taking some time to consider that. We've seen that where that has been piloted, that's been very successful at keeping families together. So, I think if that has been successful, we need to seriously consider rolling that out as well. So, there are lots of things in the pipeline, and they all have to come together. This piece of legislation is the final piece of the jigsaw in terms of bringing in a repurposed and remodelled children's care sector.
Diolch Jane, am y sylwadau yna, ac rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â phopeth rydych chi'n ei ddweud. Rydym yn gwario swm enfawr o arian ar wasanaethau preswyl i blant. Os dywedaf wrthych ein bod, yn 2017, wedi gwario £65 miliwn ar wasanaethau preswyl plant ac eleni mae hynny wedi codi i £200 miliwn, ac mae 80 y cant o hynny'n mynd i ddarparwyr preifat, darparwyr er-elw, gallwch weld maint yr her sy'n ein hwynebu. A realiti hynny yw, dim ond ar sail ariannol, heb sôn am yr achos moesol dros wneud hyn—y byddaf yn dod ato mewn eiliad—ond, ar sail ariannol yn unig, mae hynny'n anghynaladwy. Os ydym yn gweld y costau hynny'n codi, treblu, mewn llai na deng mlynedd, ac rydym yn parhau â'r llwybr hwnnw am y 10 mlynedd nesaf, gallem fod yn edrych ar wasanaethau plant, gwasanaethau preswyl plant, yn costio bron i £1 biliwn i ni. Ar hyn o bryd mae'r gyllideb gwasanaethau plant oddeutu £350 miliwn y flwyddyn, £200 miliwn o hynny ar wasanaethau preswyl, ac nid yw llawer o'r gwasanaethau preswyl hynny a'r lleoliadau preswyl hynny, fel y dywedwch yn gwbl briodol, yn lleoliadau y mae plant eisiau bod ynddyn nhw. Ac felly, mae'n rhaid i ni wneud yn siŵr mai'r rhaglen drawsnewid yr ydym yn ceisio ei chyflawni yw'r mesur ataliol hwnnw sy'n lleihau nifer y plant sy'n mynd i fod angen gofal preswyl, a bydd hynny'n cynnwys—. Oherwydd nid yw hyn yn ymwneud â chartrefi preswyl a lleoliadau preswyl yn yr ystyr hwnnw yn unig; mae hyn yn ymwneud â gwella'r niferoedd—neu gynyddu'r niferoedd, mae'n ddrwg gennyf—o ofalwyr maeth sydd gennym yn y system. Rydym yn gwybod, o'r datganiad a wneuthum yr wythnos diwethaf, ein bod yn sôn am yr angen i ni ddod o hyd i 800 o deuluoedd gofal maeth eraill ledled Cymru i ateb rhywfaint o'r galw presennol. Ond yr allwedd i hyn, ac ni allaf roi'r ffigurau ar hyn o bryd, Jane, hoffwn pe gallwn i, yw bod yn rhaid i ni weld sut mae'r holl bolisïau hyn yn gweithio, ond mae'n rhaid iddyn nhw weithio i ni allu dod â nifer y plant mewn gofal i lawr.
Felly, rwy'n gwbl benderfynol y bydd y mesurau hyn yn cael eu gweithredu, y byddwn yn rhoi arian yn y gwasanaethau ataliol lle byddwn yn gweithio gyda rhieni a phlant i'w cadw gartref lle mae'n ddiogel gwneud hynny. Rydym newydd gael yr adroddiad i mewn nawr gan y cynllun treialu llys teulu, cyffuriau ac alcohol, ac rwy'n cymryd peth amser i ystyried hwnnw. Rydym wedi gweld lle cafodd hwnnw ei dreialu, ei fod yn llwyddiannus iawn wrth gadw teuluoedd gyda'i gilydd. Felly, rwy'n credu os yw hwnnw wedi bod yn llwyddiannus, mae angen i ni ystyried cyflwyno hwnnw o ddifrif hefyd. Felly, mae llawer o bethau ar y gweill, ac mae'n rhaid iddyn nhw i gyd ddod at ei gilydd. Y darn hwn o ddeddfwriaeth yw darn olaf y jig-so o ran cyflwyno sector gofal plant wedi'i ailbwrpasu a'i ailfodelu.
Thank you for answering the question about the costs that would escalate if we do nothing. But, following on from Jane Dodds and, indeed, from Mabon ap Gwynfor, I am concerned about the ability of local authorities to commission the services locally, so that children who do need either fostering or residential accommodation are able to receive that service within their locality, because otherwise it makes life almost impossible for the corporate parent in that local authority to assure themselves that the service that's being provided is fit for those vulnerable young people. That particularly applies to secure accommodation. So, I really do want to emphasise the importance of the role that we all have to protect vulnerable people.
I strongly agree with legislation to allow people with enduring healthcare needs to be allowed to directly commission the services that will best meet their needs for themselves, and I applaud you for taking on the feedback from England.
In terms of childcare, what consideration has been given to transferring the regulation of childcare and play workers to Estyn? I am concerned that childcare is sitting on the jagged edge of regulation here, and I hope we all agree that we need child-focused inspections of services that promote the emotional resilience of children. As we increasingly have childcare delivered co-located with primary schools, it seems really odd to have Care Inspectorate Wales inspecting the early years service, and then a different organisation, Estyn, inspecting the nursery and the primary school. So, I hope that this will be explored by the Health and Social Care Committee.
Diolch i chi am ateb y cwestiwn am y costau a fyddai'n cynyddu pe baem yn gwneud dim. Ond, gan ddilyn sylwadau Jane Dodds ac, yn wir, Mabon ap Gwynfor, rwy'n pryderu am allu awdurdodau lleol i gomisiynu'r gwasanaethau yn lleol, fel bod plant sydd angen naill ai gwasanaeth maethu neu lety preswyl yn gallu derbyn y gwasanaeth hwnnw yn eu hardal leol, oherwydd fel arall mae'n gwneud bywyd bron yn amhosibl i'r rhiant corfforaethol yn yr awdurdod lleol hwnnw sicrhau ei hun bod y gwasanaeth sy'n cael ei ddarparu yn addas i'r bobl ifanc hynny sy'n agored i niwed. Mae hyn yn arbennig o berthnasol i lety diogel. Felly, rwyf wir eisiau pwysleisio pwysigrwydd y rôl sydd gennym i gyd i amddiffyn pobl sy'n agored i niwed.
Rwy'n cytuno'n gryf â deddfwriaeth i ganiatáu i bobl ag anghenion gofal iechyd parhaus gomisiynu'r gwasanaethau a fydd yn diwallu eu hanghenion orau drostynt eu hunain, ac rwy'n eich canmol am dderbyn yr adborth o Loegr.
O ran gofal plant, pa ystyriaeth sydd wedi'i rhoi i drosglwyddo rheoleiddio gweithwyr gofal plant a chwarae i Estyn? Rwy'n pryderu bod gofal plant yn eistedd ar ymyl garw rheoleiddio yma, a gobeithiaf ein bod i gyd yn cytuno bod angen arolygiadau o wasanaethau sy'n canolbwyntio ar blant arnom sy'n hyrwyddo cydnerthedd emosiynol plant. Gan fod gofal plant yn cael ei ddarparu wedi'i gyd-leoli ag ysgolion cynradd yn gynyddol, mae'n ymddangos yn rhyfedd iawn bod Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru yn arolygu'r gwasanaeth blynyddoedd cynnar, ac yna sefydliad gwahanol, Estyn, yn arolygu'r feithrinfa a'r ysgol gynradd. Felly, rwy'n gobeithio y bydd hyn yn cael ei archwilio gan y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol.
Thank you for those comments, Jenny. I know I'm in danger of repeating some of this, but I'm very clear that we have worked very, very closely with local authorities about this. This isn't something we're just dropping on them now. We've been working with them over a number of years preparing for this. It does not come without its challenges. I am not going to stand here and pretend that this is going to be something that is going to be easy to deliver. Local authorities are under tremendous financial pressure, as we all know. But what I do know, and I have met with all the social care leads from local authorities, is they are committed to doing this. They know this is the right thing to do.
Some local authorities have been able to move quite a way already with the support that we've given through the elimination programme. If you take an authority like Carmarthenshire, for instance, they have hardly any private provision already. At the other end of the spectrum, not surprisingly, there are significant issues in Cardiff, and that's not surprising. So, I know for Cardiff that will be a much greater challenge than it will be for Carmarthenshire, but they are committed to doing it. There will be a plan that I will expect all local authorities to produce, which is about their resilience to be able to deliver this.
Now, where they can't deliver it, then we won't be able to take the private provider out of the market for that period, and the Bill does allow for Ministers to make exceptional decisions around placements that will continue in for-profit providers where that is the only alternative and where that is in the best interests of the child. But that is the key to this, because it is the interests of the child that are the most important, and the type of accommodation that they need to be in.
Direct payments—you've already made the point and I agree with you.
In terms of childcare, we haven't looked at transferring the inspection to Estyn as part of this Bill. That isn't something that we have had any discussions about through this process. It is something that I'm happy to have a conversation with the Cabinet Secretary for Education about—whether or not Estyn would want to take this on, or whether they feel that this is in the appropriate place at the moment because of the impact on very young children. This is also something that I would probably need to speak to my colleague Jayne Bryant on, as she has the responsibility for early years. I wouldn't say that we'd rule it out, Jenny, but at the moment, it's not part of the consideration for this particular Bill because I think we have a much, much wider and pressing issue that we need to deal with around the elimination of profit agenda at this point.
Diolch am y sylwadau yna, Jenny. Rwy'n gwybod fy mod mewn perygl o ailadrodd rhywfaint o hyn, ond rwy'n glir iawn ein bod wedi gweithio'n agos iawn, iawn gydag awdurdodau lleol ynglŷn â hyn. Nid yw hwn yn rhywbeth yr ydym yn ei gyflwyno iddyn nhw nawr yn unig. Rydym wedi bod yn gweithio gyda nhw dros nifer o flynyddoedd i baratoi ar gyfer hwn. Nid yw'n dod heb ei heriau. Dydw i ddim yn mynd i sefyll yma ac esgus bod hyn yn mynd i fod yn rhywbeth sy'n mynd i fod yn hawdd i'w gyflawni. Mae awdurdodau lleol o dan bwysau ariannol aruthrol, fel y gwyddom i gyd. Ond yr hyn rwy'n ei wybod, ac rwyf wedi cwrdd â'r holl arweinwyr gofal cymdeithasol yr awdurdodau lleol, yw eu bod wedi ymrwymo i wneud hyn. Maen nhw'n gwybod mai dyma'r peth iawn i'w wneud.
Mae rhai awdurdodau lleol wedi gallu symud cryn dipyn yn barod gyda'r gefnogaeth rydym wedi'i rhoi drwy'r rhaglen ddileu. Os ydych yn cymryd awdurdod fel sir Gaerfyrddin, er enghraifft, prin fod ganddynt unrhyw ddarpariaeth breifat yn barod. Ar ben arall y sbectrwm, nid yw'n syndod, fod yna broblemau sylweddol yng Nghaerdydd, ac nid yw hynny'n syndod. Felly, rwy'n gwybod, i Gaerdydd y bydd honno'n her fwy o lawer nag y bydd i sir Gaerfyrddin, ond maen nhw wedi ymrwymo i'w chyflawni. Bydd cynllun y byddaf yn disgwyl i bob awdurdod lleol ei greu, sy'n ymwneud â'u cydnerthedd i allu cyflawni hyn.
Nawr, pan na allant ei gyflawni, yna ni fyddwn yn gallu mynd â'r darparwr preifat allan o'r farchnad am y cyfnod hwnnw, ac mae'r Bil yn caniatáu i Weinidogion wneud penderfyniadau eithriadol ynghylch lleoliadau a fydd yn parhau i ddarparwyr er-elw pan mai dyna'r unig ddewis arall a phan fo hynny er budd gorau'r plentyn. Ond dyna sy'n allweddol i hyn, buddiannau'r plentyn yw'r peth pwysicaf, a'r math o lety y mae angen iddo fod ynddo.
Taliadau uniongyrchol—rydych chi eisoes wedi gwneud y pwynt ac rwy'n cytuno â chi.
O ran gofal plant, nid ydym wedi ystyried trosglwyddo'r arolygiad i Estyn fel rhan o'r Bil hwn. Nid yw hynny'n rhywbeth yr ydym wedi cael unrhyw drafodaethau yn ei gylch trwy'r broses hon. Mae'n rhywbeth rwy'n hapus i gael sgwrs gydag Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Addysg amdano—a fyddai Estyn eisiau bwrw ymlaen ai peidio, neu a ydyn nhw'n teimlo bod hyn yn y lle priodol ar hyn o bryd oherwydd yr effaith ar blant ifanc iawn. Mae hyn hefyd yn rhywbeth y mae'n debyg y byddai angen i mi siarad â fy nghyd-Weinidog, Jayne Bryant amdano, gan mai hi sydd â'r cyfrifoldeb dros y blynyddoedd cynnar. Ni fyddwn yn dweud y byddem yn ei ddiystyru, Jenny, ond ar hyn o bryd, nid yw'n rhan o'r ystyriaeth ar gyfer y Bil penodol hwn oherwydd credaf fod gennym fater llawer, llawer ehangach a phwysig y mae angen i ni ymdrin ag ef ynghylch yr agenda dileu elw ar hyn o bryd.
Rwy'n croesawu'n fawr y gweithredu yma i waredu elw o'r system ofal. Fel y sonioch chi, un darn o waith yn unig sydd angen ei wneud i sicrhau'r diwygio radical o'r system ofal rŷn ni'n dirfawr angen ei weld yng Nghymru. Ac fel y soniodd Jane Dodds, rhaid inni wneud mwy i atal cymaint o blant a phobl ifanc—llawer gormod yng Nghymru—rhag mynd i mewn i'r system yn y lle cyntaf, lle bo modd. Ac un modd o wneud hynny yw mynd i'r afael â'r rhagfarn strwythurol sy'n cael ei phrofi gan famau ifanc yn sgil eu profiad o ofal, sy'n golygu eu bod nhw'n gallu cael eu cyfeirio at wasanaethau amddiffyn plant tra eu bod nhw'n feichiog, weithiau heb esboniad. Mae NYAS Cymru, wrth gwrs, gyda grant Llywodraeth Cymru, yn darparu cefnogaeth ddwys i fenywod ifanc sydd â phrofiad o ofal, drwy ei brosiect Undod, ac mae'n gallu cyfrannu at dorri'r cylch yna, y cylch gofal, drwy helpu meithrin hyder mewn mamau ifanc a'u grymuso nhw i leisio'u barn a chael mynediad at hyfforddiant, addysg a chyfleoedd eraill.
Fe wnaeth y Llywodraeth dderbyn mewn egwyddor argymhelliad adroddiad y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg ar ddiwygio radical i'r system ofal, y dylai model o'r fath, fel y prosiect Undod, fod ar gael fel hawl statudol. Felly, fyddwn i'n hoffi diweddariad ar hynny. Oes modd cael ymrwymiad gan y Gweinidog hefyd o ran cyllid hirdymor i'r prosiect Undod, gan fod y gwaith ataliol yma, fel rŷch chi wedi sôn, mor bwysig?
I very much welcome this move to remove profit from the care system. As you mentioned, it's one piece of work alone that needs to be done to ensure the radical reform of the care sector that we very much need in Wales. And as Jane Dodds mentioned, we have to do more to prevent so many children and young people—far too many of them in Wales—from entering the care system in the first instance, where it's possible to do so. And one way of doing that is to tackle the structural prejudice that is experienced by young mothers as a result of their experiences of care, which means they can be referred to child safeguarding services whilst they're pregnant, sometimes without explanation. NYAS Cymru, of course, with a Welsh Government grant, provides intensive support for young mothers with experience of care, through the Undod project, and it can contribute to breaking that cycle, that cycle of care, by helping to foster confidence in young mothers and empower them to voice their opinions and to access training, education and other opportunities.
The Government accepted in principle the recommendation made by the Children, Young People and Education Committee on radical reform to the care system, that a model such as the Undod project should be available as a statutory right. So, I'd like an update on that. Is it possible to have a commitment from the Minister too in terms of long-term funding for the Undod project, as this preventative work, as you have mentioned, is so important?
Thank you, Sioned, for those comments. You're absolutely right about that structural prejudice of young mothers, particularly mothers who have been in care themselves, and the predisposition to assume that, because the mother has been in care, that's the best place for the child to be in. That absolutely flies in the face of what we are seeking to do here. And you're quite right: the work that NYAS has been doing in this area has been quite transformational in a lot of places, and it has helped to keep mothers and babies together, and we would want to continue to support that.
In terms of that statutory right, Sioned, I'm going to have to come back to you on that, I'm afraid. I don't have that information at the moment. Suffice to say that, within the wider programme, we are looking to that preventative aspect of keeping mothers and babies together, keeping wider families together and keeping them together in locations as well. We heard earlier on—I think it was Jenny who made the comment—about children being placed too far away from where all their ties are and where their families are. And if we are serious about wanting to keep families together, then whilst we're going through those discussions, those kinds of offers of support, the advocacy that we can assist parents with, all of that has to be done within a location where everybody can stay together and do that. So, I think that is absolutely right. Everything you were saying is absolutely right. We have a very clear focus on what we want to do. We don't look at any of these things in isolation. But the specific point you raised, I will get back to you on that. Thank you.
Diolch yn fawr, Sioned, am y sylwadau yna. Rydych chi'n llygad eich lle ynghylch y rhagfarn strwythurol y mae mamau ifanc yn ei phrofi, yn enwedig mamau sydd wedi bod mewn gofal eu hunain, a'r tueddiad i dybio, gan fod y fam wedi bod mewn gofal, mai dyna'r lle gorau i'r plentyn fod ynddo. Mae hynny hollol i'r gwrthwyneb i'r hyn yr ydym yn ceisio ei wneud yma. Ac rydych chi'n llygad eich lle: mae'r gwaith y mae NYAS wedi bod yn ei wneud yn y maes hwn wedi bod yn eithaf trawsnewidiol mewn llawer o leoedd, ac mae wedi helpu i gadw mamau a babanod gyda'i gilydd, a byddem eisiau parhau i gefnogi hynny.
O ran yr hawl statudol yna, Sioned, rwy'n mynd i orfod dod nôl atoch chi ar hynny, mae gen i ofn. Nid oes gennyf yr wybodaeth honno ar hyn o bryd. Digon yw dweud, o fewn y rhaglen ehangach, ein bod yn edrych ar yr agwedd ataliol honno o gadw mamau a babanod gyda'i gilydd, cadw teuluoedd ehangach at ei gilydd a'u cadw gyda'i gilydd mewn lleoliadau hefyd. Fe glywsom ni'n gynharach—rwy'n meddwl mai Jenny wnaeth y sylw—am blant yn cael eu gosod yn rhy bell i ffwrdd o ble mae eu holl gysylltiadau a lle mae eu teuluoedd. Ac os ydym o ddifrif ynghylch cadw teuluoedd gyda'i gilydd, yna tra byddwn ni'n mynd drwy'r trafodaethau hynny, mae'r mathau hynny o gynigion o gymorth, yr eiriolaeth y gallwn ni gynorthwyo rhieni i'w chael, mae'n rhaid gwneud hynny i gyd o fewn lleoliad lle gall pawb aros gyda'i gilydd. Felly, rwy'n credu bod hynny'n hollol gywir. Mae popeth rydych chi'n ei ddweud yn hollol gywir. Mae gennym ffocws clir ar yr hyn yr ydym eisiau ei wneud. Nid ydym yn edrych ar unrhyw un o'r pethau hyn ar wahân. Ond y pwynt penodol y gwnaethoch ei godi, byddaf yn dod yn ôl atoch ar hynny. Diolch.
Diolch. Thank you very much to the Minister for bringing this statement to the Senedd today. I think eliminating profit from the care of our looked-after children is a bold and clear statement that, here in Wales, we put the experiences and rights of our children first. And it's absolutely great that we've got children in the gallery today, listening to this debate.
Obviously, this is absolutely what our children want. Children and young people have told me time and time again that, in a market system, they feel as if they are commodities for sale, with people profiting from their unfortunate situations, and I know that they will have told the Minister that as well. So, I think that by bringing in this Bill, we are sending a strong message to our children in the care system that we have listened to what they have asked of us. Because they certainly asked before the last election, and they have asked at every summit that we have had since, that this is something that they want.
Does the Minister agree that listening to what children are saying and following it up will help develop a bond of trust with the children, and that that is something that is very important? And does she also agree that removing profit from the care system will also have better outcomes for children and young people? I know that it is difficult to get evidence about that because there is very little private provision worldwide. I think that we are fairly unique, with a couple of other countries, in having any private provision at all, so it is difficult to compare. But would she agree that, with what evidence there is, it is more likely that children will benefit and thrive from a not-for-profit situation than from a private profit-making situation?
Several people have mentioned the issue about being close to their own families, and prevention, and I’d just like to emphasise that I feel very strongly that those are really important issues. And finally—
Diolch yn fawr i'r Gweinidog am ddod â'r datganiad hwn i'r Senedd heddiw. Rwy'n credu bod dileu elw o ofal ein plant sy'n derbyn gofal yn ddatganiad beiddgar a chlir ein bod, yma yng Nghymru, yn rhoi profiadau a hawliau ein plant yn gyntaf. Ac mae'n hollol wych bod gennym blant yn yr oriel heddiw, yn gwrando ar y ddadl hon.
Wrth gwrs, dyna beth mae ein plant eisiau. Mae plant a phobl ifanc wedi dweud wrthyf dro ar ôl tro, mewn system farchnad, eu bod yn teimlo eu bod nhw'n nwyddau ar werth, gyda phobl yn elwa ar eu sefyllfaoedd anffodus, a gwn y byddant wedi dweud hynny wrth y Gweinidog hefyd. Felly, rwy'n credu, drwy gyflwyno'r Bil hwn, yr ydym yn anfon neges gref at ein plant yn y system ofal ein bod wedi gwrando ar yr hyn y maent wedi gofyn i ni amdano. Oherwydd eu bod yn sicr wedi gofyn cyn yr etholiad diwethaf, ac maen nhw wedi gofyn ym mhob uwchgynhadledd rydyn ni wedi'i chael ers hynny, bod hyn yn rhywbeth y maen nhw'n dymuno ei gael.
A yw'r Gweinidog yn cytuno y bydd gwrando ar yr hyn y mae plant yn ei ddweud a gweithredu ar hynny yn helpu i ddatblygu perthynas o ymddiriedaeth gyda'r plant, a bod hynny'n rhywbeth sy'n bwysig iawn? Ac a yw hi hefyd yn cytuno y bydd cael gwared ar elw o'r system ofal hefyd yn cynnig gwell canlyniadau i blant a phobl ifanc? Rwy'n gwybod ei bod yn anodd cael tystiolaeth am hynny gan mai ychydig iawn o ddarpariaeth breifat sydd ar gael ledled y byd. Rwy'n meddwl ein bod ni'n weddol unigryw, gyda chwpl o wledydd eraill, o ran cael unrhyw ddarpariaeth breifat o gwbl, felly mae'n anodd cymharu. Ond a fyddai'n cytuno, gyda'r dystiolaeth sydd yna, ei bod yn fwy tebygol y bydd plant yn elwa ac yn ffynnu mewn sefyllfa nid-er-elw nag mewn sefyllfa er-elw breifat?
Mae nifer o bobl wedi sôn am y mater ynglŷn â bod yn agos at eu teuluoedd eu hunain, ac atal, a hoffwn bwysleisio fy mod yn teimlo'n gryf iawn bod y rheini'n faterion pwysig iawn. Ac yn olaf—
Thank you, Julie. It's a statement, and therefore you have gone well over your time.
Diolch yn fawr, Julie. Mae'n ddatganiad, ac felly rydych chi ymhell dros eich amser.
Okay. Can I ask one more?
Iawn. Gaf i ofyn un arall?
No. [Laughter.]
Na. [Chwerthin.]
You can talk to me afterwards, Julie, about your final point. Thank you, and again, I absolutely agree. The one thing that has struck me when I have been, over the last few weeks, talking to care-experienced children, whether they are children who have experienced residential care in institutions, if you like, for want of a better term, or with foster carers, the thing that has come through time and time again is their objection to their being used as a commodity; their objection to being used for the purpose of profit.
As I said right at the outset, these are some of the most vulnerable people in our society, and we are using them as market commodities—or the private sector, in certain circumstances, is using them as private commodities. And you are absolutely right: we have to have the trust of these children. We have to co-produce all of these policies, don’t we?
We have to do what we said we would do, and listen to the voices of those children who told us the way in which they want their care to be delivered. If we don’t listen to them, we will have breached that trust, and I hope that they feel—. They are here to listen to this today, and I hope that they do feel that we have listened to them, and that bringing this forward today is an indication of this.
I know, Julie, that you and the former First Minister signed this document—this declaration—last year. I and the new First Minister are going to resign it, so that we will be making our personal declarations as the new Ministers that we will carry forward this programme of work as well.
Just finally to say that, absolutely, what you are saying in terms of removing profit, how that will deliver those better outcomes, because we will then be able to see those profits that go to the shareholders being directly reinvested back into the service, to ensure that those overall objectives of providing better care for those children, in a design, in a way that suits the needs of those children, will be more affordable than they are now, and we will be able to deliver them.
Gallwch siarad â fi wedyn, Julie, am eich pwynt olaf. Diolch, ac unwaith eto, rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr. Yr un peth sydd wedi fy nharo pan oeddwn i, dros yr wythnosau diwethaf, yn siarad â phlant â phrofiad o ofal, p'un a ydyn nhw'n blant sydd wedi profi gofal preswyl mewn sefydliadau, os mynnwch chi, o eisiau gwell term, neu gyda gofalwyr maeth, yr hyn a amlygwyd dro ar ôl tro yw eu gwrthwynebiad i'w defnyddio fel adnodd; eu gwrthwynebiad i gael eu defnyddio at ddibenion elw.
Fel y dywedais reit ar y cychwyn, dyma rai o'r bobl fwyaf agored i niwed yn ein cymdeithas, ac rydym ni'n eu defnyddio fel nwyddau marchnad—neu'r sector preifat, mewn rhai amgylchiadau, yn eu defnyddio fel nwyddau preifat. Ac rydych chi'n hollol gywir: mae'n rhaid i ni gael ymddiriedaeth y plant hyn. Mae'n rhaid i ni gyd-gynhyrchu'r holl bolisïau hyn, onid oes?
Mae'n rhaid i ni wneud yr hyn y dywedsom ni y byddem ni'n ei wneud, a gwrando ar leisiau'r plant hynny a ddywedodd wrthym ni ynghylch sut yr hoffen nhw i'w gofal gael ei ddarparu. Os na fyddwn ni'n gwrando arnyn nhw, byddwn ni wedi torri'r ymddiriedaeth honno, a gobeithio eu bod nhw'n teimlo—. Maen nhw yma i wrando ar hyn heddiw, a gobeithio eu bod nhw'n teimlo ein bod ni wedi gwrando arnyn nhw, a bod cyflwyno hyn ymlaen heddiw yn arwydd o hyn.
Dw i'n gwybod, Julie, eich bod chi a'r cyn-Brif Weinidog wedi llofnodi'r ddogfen hon—y datganiad hwn—y llynedd. Rydw i a'r Prif Weinidog newydd yn mynd i'w ail-lofnodi, fel y byddwn ni'n gwneud ein datganiadau personol fel y Gweinidogion newydd y byddwn yn bwrw ymlaen â'r rhaglen waith hon hefyd.
Dim ond yn olaf i ddweud, yn hollol, yr hyn rydych chi'n ei ddweud o ran cael gwared ar elw, sut y bydd hynny'n sicrhau'r canlyniadau gwell hynny, oherwydd yna byddwn yn gallu gweld yr elw hynny sy'n mynd i'r cyfranddalwyr yn cael ei ailfuddsoddi yn uniongyrchol yn y gwasanaeth, er mwyn sicrhau bod yr amcanion cyffredinol hynny o ddarparu gwell gofal i'r plant hynny, mewn dyluniad, mewn ffordd sy'n gweddu i anghenion y plant hynny, bydd yn fwy fforddiadwy nag y maen nhw ar hyn o bryd, a byddwn yn gallu eu cyflawni.
Ac yn olaf, Joyce Watson.
And finally, Joyce Watson.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I just want to welcome this Bill that is coming forward. I particularly want to mention—. I don't want to repeat anything else, but the people who are in the public sector—and I think that we want to draw this out—the private sector, sorry, providing care, the workers there do care about the children. They are putting in long hours, some of them probably beyond the hours that they are being paid for. And of course, Minister—and it will come out when you make further statements—if a placement is good for the child, even though it's in the private sector, it will continue for that child's welfare for as long as they need that placement, and also that private provider will have an opportunity to bring that into the public sector. I think it's worth saying that, because nobody else has.
The only other point I want to raise today is about the direct payment for continuing healthcare. Of course, that's a good thing, but it's not necessarily what people want all the time. So, I want to know about the safeguards for vulnerable people, whether they're disabled or elderly, to make sure that, if that decision is made, it's made in the best interest of the individual, rather than being pressurised from elsewhere.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Hoffwn groesawu'r Bil hwn a gyflwynir. Rwy'n arbennig o awyddus i grybwyll—. Dydw i ddim eisiau ailadrodd dim byd arall, ond mae'r bobl sydd yn y sector cyhoeddus—a dwi'n meddwl ein bod ni eisiau dweud —y sector preifat, mae'n ddrwg gen i, darparu gofal, mae'r gweithwyr yno yn poeni am y plant. Maen nhw'n gweithio oriau hir, rhai ohonyn nhw fwy na thebyg y tu hwnt i'r oriau maen nhw'n cael eu talu amdanyn nhw. Ac wrth gwrs, Gweinidog—ac fe ddaw hyn yn amlwg pan fyddwch yn gwneud datganiadau pellach—os yw lleoliad yn dda i'r plentyn, er ei fod yn y sector preifat, bydd yn parhau ar gyfer lles y plentyn hwnnw cyhyd ag y bydd angen y lleoliad hwnnw arnyn nhw, a hefyd y bydd gan ddarparwr preifat gyfle i ddod â hwnnw i'r sector cyhoeddus. Rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n werth dweud hynny, gan nad oes neb arall wedi dweud hynny.
Yr unig sylw arall yr hoffwn i ei wneud heddiw yw talu'n uniongyrchol am ofal iechyd parhaus. Wrth gwrs, mae hynny'n beth da, ond nid o reidrwydd yr hyn y mae ar bobl ei eisiau trwy'r amser. Felly, fe hoffwn i wybod am y mesurau diogelu ar gyfer pobl agored i niwed, p'un a ydyn nhw'n anabl neu'n oedrannus, er mwyn sicrhau, os gwneir y penderfyniad hwnnw, y caiff ei wneud er budd gorau'r unigolyn, yn hytrach na chael ei wthio o rywle arall.
Thank you, Joyce. I think it is absolutely right to say and to put on record that the vast majority of people that work in for-profit organisations and are delivering care for these children are doing that for the right reasons, and some of them are some of the lowest paid in the sector. Again, from my point of view, I see it as totally unacceptable that the largest profits are made by organisations that are paying the least to their workforce. Local authority organisations and third sector organisations tend to have far better terms and conditions than those in the private sector. I think it's right to say that we're talking not necessarily about the staff that are providing excellent care in many, many circumstances. It's also right to say—you're quite right to say this, Joyce—that where a child is with a for-profit provider, where that placement is considered to be in the interest of that child, that will continue. We have written into the legislation the right for Ministers to be able to authorise that. So, as I say, this is not about a cliff edge, this is not about just cutting everybody out of the system at the moment the legislation is passed; it is about a transition period, it is about taking every child's situation on its merit, looking at what the best care for them is.
In terms of the direct payments, the thing to say and to be very clear about is that the direct payments are voluntary in terms of whether they seek an assessment for a direct payment under continuing healthcare. So, nobody is going to be forced to do this. This will be a voluntary process that they can go through if they consider that that would be in their best interests. They will be able to decide who they appoint to carry out that care, and whoever they appoint to carry out that care will, of course, be subject to DBS checks as well—if it's somebody they're bringing in from an outside organisation, or whatever. But quite often, of course, it's members of their families, it's people they trust. It's the choice they have to identify the person that they believe will deliver the best care for them. But to make this absolutely clear, this is not a compulsory route for anybody; it will be absolutely voluntary. Thank you.
Diolch yn fawr, Joyce. Rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n gwbl gywir dweud a nodi bod y mwyafrif helaeth o bobl sy'n gweithio mewn sefydliadau er-elw ac sy'n darparu gofal ar gyfer y plant hyn yn gwneud hynny am y rhesymau cywir, ac mae rhai ohonyn nhw ymhlith y rhai sydd â'r cyflogau lleiaf yn y sector. Unwaith eto, o fy safbwynt i, rwy'n ei weld yn gwbl annerbyniol bod yr elw mwyaf yn cael ei wneud gan sefydliadau sy'n talu'r lleiaf i'w gweithlu. Mae sefydliadau awdurdodau lleol a sefydliadau'r trydydd sector yn tueddu i fod â thelerau ac amodau llawer gwell na'r rhai yn y sector preifat. Rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n gywir dweud ein bod yn siarad nid o reidrwydd am y staff sy'n darparu gofal rhagorol mewn llawer o amgylchiadau. Mae hefyd yn gywir dweud—rydych yn hollol gywir yn dweud hyn, Joyce—pan fo plentyn gyda darparwr er-elw, lle ystyrir bod y lleoliad hwnnw er budd y plentyn hwnnw, bydd hynny'n parhau. Rydym ni wedi ysgrifennu yn y ddeddfwriaeth yr hawl i Weinidogion allu awdurdodi hynny. Felly, fel y dywedais, nid yw hyn yn ymwneud â therfynu gwasanaeth, nid yw hyn yn ymwneud â symud pawb o'r system yr eiliad y caiff y ddeddfwriaeth ei phasio; mae'n ymwneud â chyfnod pontio, mae'n ymwneud â chloriannu sefyllfa pob plentyn yn ôl ei haeddiant, gan edrych ar beth yw'r gofal gorau iddyn nhw.
O ran y taliadau uniongyrchol, y peth i'w ddweud ac i fod yn glir iawn amdano yw bod y taliadau uniongyrchol yn wirfoddol o ran a ydyn nhw'n ceisio asesiad ar gyfer taliad uniongyrchol o dan ofal iechyd parhaus. Felly, ni fydd neb yn cael eu gorfodi i wneud hyn. Bydd hon yn broses wirfoddol y gallan nhw fynd drwyddi os ydyn nhw o'r farn mai dyna fyddai fwyaf llesol. Byddan nhw'n gallu penderfynu pwy maen nhw'n ei benodi i gyflawni'r gofal hwnnw, a bydd pwy bynnag maen nhw'n ei benodi i gyflawni'r gofal hwnnw, wrth gwrs, yn destun gwiriadau DBS hefyd—os ydyn nhw'n rhywun maen nhw'n dod â nhw i mewn o sefydliad allanol, neu beth bynnag. Ond yn eithaf aml, wrth gwrs, aelodau o'u teulu fydd hynny, pobl maen nhw'n ymddiried ynddyn nhw. Dyma'r dewis sydd ganddyn nhw i adnabod y person maen nhw'n credu bydd yn darparu'r gofal gorau iddyn nhw. Ond er mwyn gwneud hyn yn gwbl glir, nid yw hwn yn llwybr gorfodol i unrhyw un; bydd yn hollol wirfoddol. Diolch.
Diolch i'r Gweinidog.
Thank you, Minister.
Mae eitem 5 wedi'i ohirio tan 4 Mehefin.
Item 5 has been postponed until 4 June.
Felly, eitem 6 sydd nesaf, datganiad gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol ar fframwaith imiwneiddio cenedlaethol Cymru. Galwaf ar Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, Eluned Morgan.
Item 6 is next, therefore, a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care on the national immunisation framework for Wales. I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Eluned Morgan.
Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. It's just over 18 months since I launched the national immunisation framework for Wales, and I'm pleased to be able to provide an update about the progress we've made and to share some of the plans we have for the rest of this year.
I want to start by saying that vaccination is one of the safest and most effective ways of preventing the spread of, and protecting people from contracting, potentially life-threatening diseases. Vaccines are part of the arsenal we have at our fingertips to fight illnesses and diseases—illnesses that have previously killed tens of thousands of people every year in the UK, let alone worldwide. We have successfully eradicated smallpox globally, thanks to the heroic efforts of teams around the world to vaccinate whole populations, and we are well on our way to wiping out other deadly diseases.
We all saw how effective vaccination was during the pandemic. The COVID vaccine has saved thousands of lives and prevented even more cases of serious illness. Our experience delivering the COVID vaccine led to the development of the national immunisation framework for Wales. Just over a year ago, we created a national vaccination team in the new NHS Wales Executive. The team is providing national support and performance management, while also ensuring health boards have flexibility to deliver vaccination programmes in the way that works most effectively for their local population.
Our commitment to ensuring equitable access to vaccination for every citizen in Wales remains a core priority. The pandemic brought into sharp focus the serious health implications vaccine inequity can cause. It was inspiring to see the advances made in tackling inequities by removing barriers and reaching into and working with communities. Maintaining that momentum has been challenging post pandemic, and we have seen a reduction in uptake in some vaccines, with some very worrying consequences. But I am absolutely clear that we must maintain momentum to reduce inequities where they exist and to improve uptake where it has dipped.
The national immunisation framework set a requirement for health boards to develop vaccination equity strategies to clearly set out ways inequities are being actively reduced. This work is being prioritised and I look forward to seeing the real-world impacts. Closely aligned to our commitment to equity is the commitment in the framework to improved vaccine literacy. Public Health Wales will publish a vaccine literacy strategy, which will help to improve public understanding and awareness of vaccines and support informed decision making. Ultimately, this will help to maximise vaccination uptake.
Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. Mae ychydig dros 18 mis ers i mi lansio'r fframwaith imiwneiddio cenedlaethol ar gyfer Cymru, ac rwy'n falch o allu rhoi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am y cynnydd rydym ni wedi'i wneud ac i rannu rhai o'r cynlluniau sydd gennym ni ar gyfer gweddill eleni.
Hoffwn ddechrau drwy ddweud mai brechu yw un o'r ffyrdd mwyaf diogel a mwyaf effeithiol o atal lledaeniad, ac amddiffyn pobl rhag dal afiechydon a allai beryglu bywyd. Mae brechlynnau'n rhan o'r arfau sydd gennym ni ar flaenau ein bysedd i frwydro yn erbyn afiechydon a chlefydau—afiechydon sydd wedi lladd degau o filoedd o bobl bob blwyddyn yn y DU, heb sôn am yn fyd eang. Rydym ni wedi cael gwared ar frech wen yn llwyddiannus yn fyd-eang, diolch i ymdrechion arwrol timau ledled y byd i frechu poblogaethau cyfan, ac rydym ni ar ein ffordd i ddileu clefydau marwol eraill.
Fe welsom ni i gyd pa mor effeithiol oedd brechu yn ystod y pandemig. Mae'r brechlyn COVID wedi achub miloedd o fywydau ac wedi atal hyd yn oed mwy o achosion o salwch difrifol. Arweiniodd ein profiad o ddarparu'r brechlyn COVID at ddatblygu'r fframwaith imiwneiddio cenedlaethol i Gymru. Ychydig dros flwyddyn yn ôl, fe wnaethom ni greu tîm brechu cenedlaethol yng Ngweithrediaeth newydd GIG Cymru. Mae'r tîm yn darparu cymorth cenedlaethol ac yn rheoli perfformiad, a hefyd yn sicrhau bod gan fyrddau iechyd hyblygrwydd i ddarparu rhaglenni brechu yn y ffordd fwyaf effeithiol i'w poblogaeth leol.
Mae ein hymrwymiad i sicrhau mynediad teg at frechu i bob dinesydd yng Nghymru yn parhau i fod yn flaenoriaeth graidd. Fe welsom ni adeg y pandemig y goblygiadau difrifol y gall annhegwch o ran gallu cael brechiad ei achosi ar gyfer iechyd. Roedd yn ysbrydoledig gweld y datblygiadau a wnaed wrth fynd i'r afael ag anghydraddoldebau trwy gael gwared ar rwystrau ac estyn at a gweithio gyda chymunedau. Mae cynnal y momentwm hwnnw wedi bod yn heriol ar ôl y pandemig, ac rydym ni wedi gweld gostyngiad yn nifer y bobl sy'n derbyn brechlynnau, gyda rhai canlyniadau pryderus iawn. Ond rwy'n gwbl glir bod yn rhaid i ni gynnal momentwm i leihau anghydraddoldebau lle maen nhw'n bodoli ac i wella'r niferoedd sy'n derbyn lle bu gostyngiad.
Mae'r fframwaith imiwneiddio cenedlaethol yn gosod gofyniad i fyrddau iechyd ddatblygu strategaethau tegwch brechu i nodi'n glir sut maen nhw'n lleihau anghydraddoldebau. Mae'r gwaith hwn yn cael ei flaenoriaethu ac edrychaf ymlaen at weld yr effeithiau yn y byd go iawn. Yn cyd-fynd yn agos â'n hymrwymiad i degwch yw'r ymrwymiad yn y fframwaith i lythrennedd gwell o ran brechlynnau. Bydd Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru yn cyhoeddi strategaeth lythrennedd o ran brechlynnau, a fydd yn helpu i wella dealltwriaeth ac ymwybyddiaeth y cyhoedd o frechlynnau a chefnogi gwneud penderfyniadau ar sail gwybodaeth. Yn y pen draw, bydd hyn yn helpu i gynyddu'r nifer sy'n cael eu brechu.
A dyna yw hanfod y fframwaith imiwneiddio: cynyddu nifer y bobl sy'n manteisio ar ein holl raglenni brechu. Mae'n hawdd anghofio, weithiau, nifer y clefydau peryglus a difrifol rŷn ni'n brechu yn eu herbyn yng Nghymru. Hyd yn oed cyn i fabi gael ei eni, bydd y fam wedi cael cynnig sawl brechiad i amddiffyn eu babi yn nyddiau ac wythnosau cyntaf ei fywyd. Un o'r rheini yw brechiad yn erbyn y pas, neu whooping cough. Rwy'n poeni'n fawr o weld cynnydd yn nifer yr achosion eleni. Yr wythnos diwethaf, adroddwyd bod pum babi yn Lloegr wedi marw o whooping cough eleni. Yn ffodus, does dim marwolaethau wedi bod yng Nghymru hyd yma, ond dylai'r newyddion trasig yma fod yn rhybudd i ni i gyd. Dwi'n apelio ar fenywod beichiog yng Nghymru i fynd i gael y brechiad hwn, sy'n ddiogel ac yn effeithiol iawn.
Dros y flwyddyn diwethaf, rŷn ni hefyd wedi gweld cynnydd sylweddol yn nifer yr achosion o'r frech goch ledled y byd. Yn yr hydref, daeth achosion newydd i'r amlwg yng Nghaerdydd a Bro Morgannwg. Ar hyn o bryd, rŷn ni'n delio ag achosion pellach yn ardal Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Aneurin Bevan. Mae'n siomedig dros ben gweld achosion o'r frech goch yn ôl yng Nghymru. Gan fod sawl achos parhaus dros y ffin, mae'r risg yn parhau'n uchel yma. Mae'n hanfodol, felly, ein bod yn cymryd camau i wella'r amddiffyniad yn erbyn y salwch difrifol hwn. Ym mis Chwefror, ysgrifennodd Prif Swyddog Meddygol Cymru at fyrddau iechyd yn gofyn iddyn nhw sicrhau bod 90 y cant o ddysgwyr mewn ysgolion wedi'u brechu'n llawn erbyn diwedd mis Gorffennaf. Dwi'n sylweddoli faint o waith y mae hyn yn ei olygu i'n timau imiwneiddio a nyrsys ysgol, a hoffwn ddiolch o galon i bawb sy'n rhan o'r gwaith hwn i ddal i fyny.
Dirprwy Lywydd, dwi nawr am droi at y camau nesaf yn y fframwaith. Bydd yr Aelodau'n ymwybodol bod datblygu datrysiadau digidol i helpu'r gwaith brechu yng Nghymru wedi bod yn garreg filltir bwysig. Gofynnais i Iechyd a Gofal Digidol Cymru gynnal gwaith darganfod digidol i ystyried y ffordd ymlaen. Dwi'n falch o ddweud bod y gwaith hwnnw wedi'i gwblhau ac mae'r camau nesaf, er mwyn symud i'r cam gweithredu, wrthi yn cael eu hystyried. Dwi eisiau diolch i bawb sydd wedi bod yn rhan o'r gwaith pwysig yma. Mae ein rhaglenni brechu tymhorol yn parhau i gynnig amddiffyniad pwysig i bobl sy'n agored i niwed, ac i'r gwasanaethau iechyd a gofal. Mae rhaglen frechiadau atgyfnerthu COVID-19 y gwanwyn ar ei hanterth ar hyn o bryd. O ran rhaglen frechu'r gaeaf yn erbyn feirysau anadlol, fe wnaethom ni roi dros 1.7 miliwn o frechlynnau yn erbyn COVID a'r ffliw.
Mae'r fframwaith imiwneiddio yn nodi ein huchelgais i symud at fodel canolog ar gyfer caffael brechlynnau ffliw. Byddai hyn yn cael gwared ar y baich caffael i feddygon teulu a fferyllwyr, ac yn creu system fwy hyblyg i gefnogi nodau ehangach y fframwaith. Mae cynnydd sylweddol wedi ei wneud, a dwi'n gobeithio gallu rhannu rhagor o fanylion yn ystod y misoedd nesaf. Yn olaf, dwi eisiau rhannu cymaint o fraint oedd hi i gael annerch cynhadledd imiwneiddio Cymru fis diwethaf. Roedd yn wych i weld yr egni, yr angerdd a'r ymrwymiad i ddatblygu gwasanaeth brechu sydd o safon fyd-eang. Hoffwn i ddiolch o galon i bawb sy'n cyfrannu at gyflawni'r gwasanaeth gwerthfawr hwn dros bobl Cymru.
And at its heart, that is what the national immunisation framework is all about: maximising uptake across all our vaccination programmes. It’s sometimes easy to forget just how many dangerous and potentially life-limiting and life-threatening diseases we vaccinate against in Wales. Even before a baby is born, the mother will have been offered a number of vaccines to protect their baby in the first days and weeks of life. One of those is a vaccination against whooping cough. I am very concerned about the increase in the number of cases this year. Last week, it was reported that five babies in England had died from whooping cough this year. Fortunately, there have been no deaths in Wales to date, but this tragic news should act as a warning to all of us. I appeal to pregnant women in Wales to please come forward to have this very safe and effective vaccination.
Over the past year, we’ve also seen a significant resurgence in cases of measles around the world. Last autumn, there was an outbreak in Cardiff and the Vale of Glamorgan. We are currently dealing with another case in the Aneurin Bevan University Health Board area. It is hugely disappointing to see the return of measles outbreaks in Wales. With several sustained outbreaks over the border, the risk here remains high. It is therefore vital that we take action to improve protection against this serious illness. In February, the Chief Medical Officer for Wales wrote to health boards asking them to ensure 90 per cent of learners in schools were fully vaccinated by the end of July. I realise the amount of work this involves for our immunisation teams and school nurses, and I would like to offer my sincere thanks to everyone engaged in this catch-up effort.
Dirprwy Lywydd, I now want to turn to the next steps in the framework. Members will be aware that the development of digital solutions to support vaccination in Wales has been an important milestone. I asked Digital Health and Care Wales to undertake digital discovery work to consider the way forward. I’m pleased to say that work has been completed and next steps to move to the implementation phase are now being considered. I want to thank everyone involved in this important piece of work. Our seasonal vaccination programmes continue to offer important protection to vulnerable people, and to the health and care services. The COVID-19 spring booster programme is currently in full swing, and the winter respiratory programme delivered more than 1.7 million COVID and flu vaccines.
The national immunisation framework sets out our ambition to move to a centralised model for the procurement of flu vaccine. This would remove the burden of procurement from general practitioners and pharmacists, and create a more flexible system to support the wider ambitions of the framework. Significant progress has been made, and I hope to be in a position to give more details about this in the coming months. Finally, I just want to say what a privilege it was to address the Welsh immunisation conference last month. It was fantastic to witness the energy, passion and commitment to developing a world-leading vaccination service. My sincere thanks go to everyone involved in delivering this valuable service to the people of Wales.
Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for today's statement on the national immunisation framework for Wales. Let me also join you, Cabinet Secretary, in saying that the importance of that effective immunisation programme is an absolute must for any nation. Of course, it serves to protect everyone in our society, but particularly those who are at vulnerable points in life, such as children, infants and pregnant women. As such, it's so important that people get the vaccines that are relevant to them at the time that they can, because, of course, it protects them and it protects others as well.
You mentioned in your statement, Cabinet Secretary, the good news we know of the global eradication of smallpox. Other examples of diseases that have been tackled spring to mind as well, such as diphtheria and tetanus, both having been reduced dramatically due to vaccination programmes rolled out across the UK in the 1940s and 1960s respectively. It's so important that those cases are understood and tracked, and the important work of the framework in doing that as well.
We also have to recognise that this isn't the case in every country around the world, and it shows the importance of both the effective vaccinations, and also having a population that trusts the process to take the vaccine to protect them as well. I think we all have a role to play as politicians in encouraging take-up of vaccines to our constituents when they are available.
On the national immunisation framework that you referenced, of course, a statement relating to that was published in 2022, and I've got a few questions. The first is in relation to the role of the framework as it assigns responsibility for implementation to the NHS Wales delivery unit, and the oversight of that, of course, is with the Welsh Government and the Cabinet Secretary. I'm just interested to understand how satisfied you are that the delivery unit is working and that, as the Welsh Government, you have sufficient grip of the situation and governance in place to take a lead if things aren't working as they should. I understand you are interested in governance structures at the moment; I'd be interested in that area, in particular.
You rightly referenced the COVID-19 response in your statement, and I certainly join you in commending the efforts of all those involved in the roll-out of that important vaccine. We also know that these bacterial infections and illnesses don't stop at borders or administrative boundaries, so I'd like to understand a bit more about how you're working with other bodies, such as colleagues at UK Government level and local authority level, to ensure we maximise that immunisation take-up, and also have a response in place if and when we have further outbreaks or global pandemic levels as well.
Thank you today for referencing whooping cough and the work that's been undertaken to look to reduce those numbers. I'm really concerned about the rise in those cases, and I certainly concur with your message that pregnant women should come forward for that vaccination if they haven't had it already, to try and stop and reduce any potential harm. So, I join you in that.
I also want to reference your highlighting of the importance of vaccination for measles as well, which, as you've shown, is unfortunately on the increase both here in the UK and around the world. That, of course, can be prevented with the MMR vaccine. You mentioned in your statement, Cabinet Secretary, the 90 per cent figure of schoolchildren looking to be vaccinated by the end of July; that's certainly welcome. But I'd like to know how likely you think that figure is to be met, and what work you're doing to make sure children who aren't in traditional school settings, such as those who are perhaps in home education, are able to access these vaccines as well.
So, I just want to close by certainly welcoming also the digital work being undertaken to support the improvement in vaccine take-up. I think it's a really important area of work, making sure that systems and programmes are talking to each other between primary care and into our hospitals as well. I also want to join you in recognising the role that, again, we all play, in ensuring that our constituents are aware of the importance of taking those vaccines, when they're available, to reduce the risks to themselves and to others as well. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Diolch i chi, Ysgrifennydd Cabinet, am y datganiad heddiw am y fframwaith imiwneiddio cenedlaethol i Gymru. Gadewch imi hefyd ategu eich sylwadau, Ysgrifennydd Cabinet, a dweud bod pwysigrwydd y rhaglen imiwneiddio effeithiol honno yn hanfodol i unrhyw genedl. Wrth gwrs, mae'n amddiffyn pawb yn ein cymdeithas, ond yn enwedig y rhai sydd ar adegau bregus mewn bywyd, fel plant, babanod a menywod beichiog. O'r herwydd, mae mor bwysig bod pobl yn cael y brechlynnau sy'n berthnasol iddyn nhw ar yr adeg y gallan nhw, oherwydd, wrth gwrs, mae'n eu hamddiffyn nhw ac mae'n amddiffyn eraill hefyd.
Fe wnaethoch chi sôn yn eich datganiad, Ysgrifennydd Cabinet, am y newyddion da y gwyddom ni am ddileu'r frech wen yn fyd-eang. Mae enghreifftiau eraill o glefydau eraill a drechwyd yn dod i'r meddwl hefyd, fel difftheria a tetanws, ill dau wedi cael eu lleihau'n ddramatig oherwydd bod rhaglenni brechu yn cael eu cyflwyno ledled y DU yn y 1940au a'r 1960au yn y drefn honno. Mae mor bwysig bod yr achosion hynny'n cael eu deall a'u holrhain, a gwaith pwysig y fframwaith wrth wneud hynny hefyd.
Mae'n rhaid i ni gydnabod hefyd nad yw hyn yn wir ym mhob gwlad ledled y byd, ac mae'n dangos pwysigrwydd y brechiadau effeithiol, a hefyd bod â phoblogaeth sy'n ymddiried yn y broses i gymryd y brechlyn i'w hamddiffyn hefyd. Rwy'n credu bod gan bob un ohonom ni ran i'w chwarae fel gwleidyddion wrth annog ein hetholwyr i fanteisio ar frechlynnau pan fyddan nhw ar gael.
O ran y fframwaith imiwneiddio cenedlaethol y gwnaethoch chi gyfeirio ato, wrth gwrs, cafodd datganiad yn ymwneud â hynny ei gyhoeddi yn 2022, ac mae gennyf ychydig o gwestiynau. Mae'r cyntaf mewn perthynas â swyddogaeth y fframwaith gan ei fod yn neilltuo'r cyfrifoldeb dros weithredu i uned gyflawni GIG Cymru, ac mae goruchwylio hynny, wrth gwrs, yn gyfrifoldeb Llywodraeth Cymru ac Ysgrifennydd Cabinet. Mae gen i ddiddordeb deall pa mor fodlon ydych chi fod yr uned gyflawni yn gweithio a bod gennych chi, Llywodraeth Cymru, ddigon o afael ar y sefyllfa a'r llywodraethu i arwain os nad yw pethau'n gweithio fel y dylen nhw. Rwy'n deall bod gennych chi ddiddordeb mewn strwythurau llywodraethu ar hyn o bryd; byddai gen i ddiddordeb yn y maes hwnnw, yn arbennig.
Fe wnaethoch chi gyfeirio'n briodol at yr ymateb i COVID-19 yn eich datganiad, ac rwy'n sicr yn ategu eich canmoliaeth o ymdrechion pawb fu'n rhan o gyflwyno'r brechlyn pwysig hwnnw. Rydym ni hefyd yn gwybod nad yw'r heintiau a'r afiechydon bacteriol hyn yn parchu ffiniau gwledydd neu weinyddol, felly fe hoffwn i ddeall ychydig mwy am sut rydych chi'n gweithio gyda chyrff eraill, fel cydweithwyr ar lefel Llywodraeth y DU ac awdurdodau lleol, i sicrhau ein bod yn gwneud y mwyaf o'r defnydd o imiwneiddio, a hefyd yn gallu ymateb os a phan fydd gennym ni achosion pellach neu lefelau pandemig byd-eang hefyd.
Diolch heddiw am gyfeirio at y pas a'r gwaith sydd wedi'i wneud i geisio lleihau'r niferoedd hynny. Rwy'n bryderus iawn am y cynnydd yn yr achosion hynny, ac rwy'n sicr yn cytuno â'ch neges y dylai menywod beichiog ofyn am y brechiad hwnnw os nad ydyn nhw wedi'i gael eisoes, i geisio atal a lleihau unrhyw niwed posibl. Felly, rwy'n ategu eich geiriau yn hynny o beth.
Fe hoffwn i gyfeirio hefyd at y modd y bu ichi amlygu pwysigrwydd brechu ar gyfer y frech goch hefyd, sydd, fel y dangosoch chi, yn anffodus ar gynnydd yma yn y DU ac ar draws y byd. Gellir atal hynny, wrth gwrs, gyda'r brechlyn MMR. Fe wnaethoch chi grybwyll yn eich datganiad, Ysgrifennydd Cabinet, y ffigur o 90 y cant o blant ysgol sydd am gael eu brechu erbyn diwedd mis Gorffennaf; mae hynny'n sicr i'w groesawu. Ond fe hoffwn i wybod pa mor grediniol ydych chi y cyflawnir y ffigur hwnnw, a pha waith rydych chi'n ei wneud i sicrhau bod plant nad ydyn nhw mewn lleoliadau ysgol traddodiadol, fel y rhai sydd efallai yn cael eu dysgu gartref, yn gallu cael y brechlynnau hyn hefyd.
Felly, fe hoffwn i derfynu drwy ddim ond croesawu'r gwaith digidol hefyd sy'n cael ei wneud i gefnogi'r gwelliant yn nifer y bobl sy'n derbyn brechlynnau. Rwy'n credu ei fod yn faes gwaith pwysig iawn, gan sicrhau bod systemau a rhaglenni'n cyfathrebu â'i gilydd o ran gofal sylfaenol a'n hysbytai hefyd. Fe hoffwn i hefyd ategu'ch cydnabyddiaeth o'n rhan ni i gyd, unwaith eto, i sicrhau bod ein hetholwyr yn ymwybodol o bwysigrwydd cael y brechlynnau hynny, pan fyddant ar gael, i leihau'r peryglon iddyn nhw eu hunain ac i eraill hefyd. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Thanks very much, and I think it's good to recognise—and thank you for recognising—the fact that, actually, this is probably the most cost-effective public health tool we have. This is what saves us money, so it's definitely an investment—not just here, obviously, but across the world. And it's good to see that that is increasing across the world, and even things like malaria now, there are examples of where that's moving on.
I think one of your questions was about the delivery unit and how that's working and, obviously, this is now sitting in the NHS Wales Executive. This is an area and a group that I have real confidence in. I think they are delivering really well, developing a real cross-nation approach, just making sure that they've got that focus, making sure that the kind of postcode lottery situation is not something that arises. So, having that overall structure within the NHS executive is actually really useful. I think this particular group—you know, they learnt their trade during the pandemic. These are people who've been tested, they know what they're doing, they're absolutely on top of it. There are other parts I'm not quite so confident in, but this is a group that I'm absolutely sure are doing very well. And, obviously, I'll be looking forward to publishing the governance and accountability group's report very soon.
In terms of working with the UK Government, one of the things we do is to work very closely and take recommendations from the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation, and where possible, because of some of the misinformation that's around, we try and do that on a four-nations basis, and I think that, I hope, will give more confidence to people to take up the opportunity. And, yes, we are confident that we have the ability to build up the capacity very quickly in future, if we have another kind of pandemic. So, we've tried to make sure that that capacity is in place.
I'm very worried about whooping cough, as you say, but it is also part of a cycle, so it does come around every, I think, four of five years. So, it does happen, but, obviously, that's more of a reason to get people, to make sure that they are covered and they're having their vaccinations. That target for MMR reaching 90 per cent by the end of July, Public Health Wales has said, by about December, it was up to 89 per cent. But the problem is we're worried about equity. So, what you might have is in some areas, it'll be up to 95 per cent, and in other areas it'll be a lot lower. So, equity for us is really, really key, and making sure that we do that outreach work into perhaps those schools that may have seen a lower uptake. So, it's not just about hitting the 90 per cent, it's about making sure there's a minimum of 90 per cent everywhere, if possible—that's got to be our goal, if we can. So, I hope that's given you some answers to those questions. Diolch.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, a dw i'n meddwl ei bod hi'n dda cydnabod—a diolch am gydnabod—y ffaith, mewn gwirionedd, mai hwn yw'r offeryn iechyd cyhoeddus mwyaf cost-effeithiol sydd gennym ni, mae'n debyg. Dyma beth sy'n arbed arian i ni, felly mae'n bendant yn fuddsoddiad—nid yn unig yma, yn amlwg, ond ar draws y byd. Ac mae'n dda gweld bod hynny'n cynyddu ar draws y byd, a hyd yn oed pethau fel malaria nawr, mae yna enghreifftiau o ble mae hynny'n gwneud cynnydd.
Rwy'n credu mai un o'ch cwestiynau chi oedd am yr uned gyflawni a sut mae honno'n gweithio ac, yn amlwg, mae hyn bellach yn rhan o Weithrediaeth GIG Cymru. Mae hwn yn faes ac yn grŵp y mae gennyf hyder gwirioneddol ynddo. Rwy'n credu eu bod yn cyflawni'n dda iawn, gan ddatblygu dull traws-genedl go iawn, gan sicrhau bod ganddyn nhw'r pwyslais hwnnw, gan sicrhau nad yw'r math o sefyllfa loteri cod post yn rhywbeth sy'n codi. Felly, mae cael y strwythur cyffredinol hwnnw o fewn gweithrediaeth y GIG mewn gwirionedd yn ddefnyddiol iawn. Dw i'n meddwl bod y grŵp penodol yma—wyddoch chi, fe wnaethon nhw ddysgu eu crefft yn ystod y pandemig. Mae'r rhain yn bobl sydd wedi cael eu profi, maen nhw'n gwybod beth maen nhw'n ei wneud, maen nhw'n deall pethau. Mae yna rannau eraill nad ydw i mor hyderus ynddyn nhw, ond mae hwn yn grŵp dw i'n siŵr eu bod yn gwneud yn dda iawn. Ac, yn amlwg, byddaf yn edrych ymlaen at gyhoeddi adroddiad y grŵp llywodraethu ac atebolrwydd yn fuan iawn.
O ran gweithio gyda Llywodraeth y DU, un o'r pethau a wnawn ni yw gweithio'n agos iawn a chymryd argymhellion gan y Cydbwyllgor ar Frechu ac Imiwneiddio, a lle bo hynny'n bosibl, oherwydd peth o'r wybodaeth anghywir sydd o'n cwmpas, rydym ni'n ceisio gwneud hynny ar sail pedair gwlad, a chredaf y bydd hynny, gobeithio, yn rhoi mwy o hyder i bobl fanteisio ar y cyfle. Ac, ie, rydym ni'n hyderus bod gennym ni'r gallu i feithrin y capasiti yn gyflym iawn yn y dyfodol, os gwelwn ni fath arall o bandemig. Felly, rydym ni wedi ceisio sicrhau bod y capasiti hwnnw yn bodoli.
Dw i'n poeni'n fawr am y pas, fel y dywedwch chi, ond mae hefyd yn rhan o gylch, felly mae yn ymddangos, rwy'n credu, bob pedair neu bum mlynedd. Felly, mae hynny yn digwydd, ond, yn amlwg, mae hynny'n fwy o reswm i gael pobl, i sicrhau eu bod yn cael eu cynnwys a'u bod yn cael eu brechiadau. Y targed hwnnw o 90 y cant yn cael brechiad MMR erbyn diwedd mis Gorffennaf, mae Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru wedi dweud, erbyn tua mis Rhagfyr, ei fod hyd at 89 y cant. Ond y broblem yw ein bod ni'n poeni am degwch. Felly, yr hyn sydd gennych chi mewn rhai ardaloedd, yw hyd at 95 y cant, ac mewn ardaloedd eraill bydd yn llawer is. Felly, mae tegwch i ni yn allweddol iawn, ac yn sicrhau ein bod yn gwneud y gwaith allgymorth hwnnw gyda'r ysgolion hynny a allai fod wedi gweld llai o bobl yn manteisio. Felly, nid yw'n ymwneud â tharo'r 90 y cant yn unig, mae'n ymwneud â sicrhau bod o leiaf 90 y cant ym mhobman, os yn bosibl—mae'n rhaid i hynny fod yn nod i ni, os gallwn ni. Felly, rwy'n gobeithio bod hyn wedi rhoi atebion i chi i'r cwestiynau hynny. Diolch.
We know that, since the Cabinet Secretary's previous statement on the national immunisation framework last year, issues around misinformation have contributed to ongoing vaccine hesitancy, which in turn have contributed to dangerous and entirely preventable outbreaks of measles. In England and Wales, there were 1,603 suspected cases of measles in 2023, an increase from 735 in 2022, and just 360 the year before. Last year we asked how use of an app would help to combat the spread of misinformation about vaccinations. The Minister—the now Cabinet Secretary—responded:
'In terms of misinformation, I do think that this is a serious subject. It does affect people, some people listen to the nonsense they see online in particular. That's why it's important that people can go to websites and other places where they can have confidence that the information that they are getting is factual, scientific information that they can rely on. That's why I think there is a prominent role, not only for the app, but also for the NHS locally in ensuring that people have that confidence. People still have a lot of confidence in the NHS and the people who lead the NHS.'
So, my questions are, given the role that the spread of misinformation is continuing to have in promoting vaccine hesitancy, does the Cabinet Secretary agree that more needs to be done than providing information via an NHS website alone? Does the Cabinet Secretary agree that there is an urgent need for a cross-departmental approach to combating disinformation and misinformation, including about vaccines, and what conversations is she having or will she be having with her ministerial colleagues about this? And does the Cabinet Secretary agree that without the devolution of powers over broadcasting in particular it will be harder to counter the spread of misinformation?
Moving on to digital infrastructure, I'm concerned that developing the digital infrastructure is a painfully slow process and we need to see greater impetus on this front. Last year we also asked how the digital infrastructure would underpin and help to deliver the framework, and how this would interact with the multiple computer systems already being used in the NHS in Wales. The Minister responded, and I quote again:
'we are doing a lot to transform our digital systems in the NHS. I'd like to do a lot more if I had more funding. I think it's an area where we would get great value for money, but there are problems, evidently, in financial terms at present, so what we're trying to do is ensure that the computer systems are in place, and our digital team is spending a lot of time ensuring that that is in the right place.'
So, can the Cabinet Secretary provide an update on, and/or more specific information about the development of relevant IT systems? What progress has been made on integrating these with existing systems, and what work has been undertaken to streamline and simplify these systems? Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Fe wyddom ni, ers datganiad blaenorol yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet ar y fframwaith imiwneiddio cenedlaethol y llynedd, fod materion yn ymwneud â chamwybodaeth wedi cyfrannu at betruster bobl o hyd i gael brechiadau, sydd yn ei dro wedi cyfrannu at achosion peryglus a hollol ataliadwy o'r frech goch. Yng Nghymru a Lloegr, roedd 1,603 o achosion o'r frech goch yn 2023, cynnydd o 735 yn 2022, a dim ond 360 y flwyddyn flaenorol. Y llynedd fe wnaethom ni ofyn sut y byddai defnyddio ap yn helpu i frwydro yn erbyn lledaenu gwybodaeth anghywir am frechiadau. Ymatebodd y Gweinidog—yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet bellach—
'O ran camwybodaeth, dwi yn meddwl bod hwn yn bwnc difrifol. Mae yn effeithio ar bobl, mae rhai pobl yn gwrando ar y dwli yma maen nhw'n ei weld ar-lein yn arbennig. Dyna pam mae'n bwysig bod pobl yn gallu mynd at lefydd a mannau ac at wefannau lle maen nhw'n gallu cael hyder bod y wybodaeth maen nhw'n ei chael yn wybodaeth ffeithiol, gwyddonol maen nhw'n gallu dibynnu arni. Felly, dyna pam dwi'n meddwl bod yna rôl amlwg nid yn unig i'r ap, ond hefyd i'r NHS yn lleol i wneud yn siŵr bod gan bobl hyder. Mae dal pobl sydd â lot o hyder yn yr NHS ac yn y bobl sy'n arwain yr NHS.'
Felly, fy nghwestiynau yw, o ystyried y swyddogaeth y mae lledaenu gwybodaeth anghywir yn parhau i'w chael wrth hyrwyddo petruster ynghylch cael brechlynnau, a yw'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet yn cytuno bod angen gwneud mwy na darparu gwybodaeth drwy wefan y GIG yn unig? A yw'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet yn cytuno bod angen brys am ddull trawsadrannol o fynd i'r afael â thwyllwybodaeth a chamwybodaeth, gan gynnwys am frechlynnau, a pha sgyrsiau y mae hi'n eu cael neu a fydd hi'n eu cael gyda'i chyd-Weinidogion ynglŷn â hyn? Ac a yw'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet yn cytuno, heb ddatganoli pwerau dros ddarlledu yn benodol, y bydd hi'n anoddach gwrthsefyll camwybodaeth rhag lledaenu?
Gan symud ymlaen at seilwaith digidol, rwy'n pryderu bod datblygu'r seilwaith digidol yn broses boenus o araf ac mae angen i ni weld mwy o ysgogiad ar y maes hwn. Y llynedd, fe wnaethom ni hefyd ofyn sut y byddai'r seilwaith digidol yn sail i'r fframwaith ac yn helpu i gyflawni'r fframwaith, a sut y byddai hyn yn rhyngweithio â'r systemau cyfrifiadurol lluosog sydd eisoes yn cael eu defnyddio yn y GIG yng Nghymru. Ymatebodd y Gweinidog, ac rwy'n dyfynnu eto:
'rŷn ni'n gwneud lot i drawsnewid systemau digidol yn yr NHS. Byddwn i'n licio gwneud lot, lot yn fwy pe bai mwy o arian gen i. Dwi'n meddwl ei bod hi'n ardal lle byddem ni'n cael gwerth ein harian ni, ond mae yna broblemau, yn amlwg, yn ariannol gennym ni ar hyn o bryd, felly beth rŷn ni yn trio ei wneud yw gwneud yn siŵr bod y systemau cyfrifiadurol mewn lle, ac mae'n tîm digidol ni yn treulio lot o amser yn sicrhau bod hwn yn y lle iawn.'
Felly, a all yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am, a/neu wybodaeth fwy penodol am ddatblygu systemau TG perthnasol? Pa gynnydd sydd wedi'i wneud o ran integreiddio'r rhain â'r systemau presennol, a pha waith a wnaed i wneud y systemau hyn yn symlach ac yn fwy effeithiol? Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Daeth y Llywydd i’r Gadair.
The Llywydd took the Chair.
Diolch yn fawr, Mabon. You're quite right, I think misinformation is something we should all be very worried about and having people being able to have access to secure advice where they can have assurance is important. That's why I think Public Health Wales has a really key role to play here, and obviously the JCVI as well. You're quite right that vaccine hesitancy, in particular in relation to MMR—what happened is that we know there was a blip when there was all that misinformation a few years ago, so there's a cohort of children that we're particularly worried about, and we would ask them to come forward, or at least to check their records just to make sure that they are covered, because it's not something that you want to get, and we are seeing these increasing cases. We've got cases—. We've seen cases in Aneurin Bevan, in Cardiff, and also now we've had a single case in north Wales.
You asked about cross-departmental work. Well, obviously, the vaccination is a school programme, so obviously there is a lot of work happening with education already.
In relation to broadcasting and whether a centralised and a Welsh controlled broadcasting authority, in some way, would be able to manage this, I mean, I think that's quite difficult because young people, for example, a lot of them, get their information from TikTok. Well, good luck if you think you're going to control TikTok. So, I just think we've got to be realistic about where we're able to influence.
Just in relation to your question on digital infrastructure, the national immunisation framework, it did set out an ambition to develop the digital infrastructure that's needed, and the whole point was that that was supposed to be a system that works for practitioners and patients. So, Digital Health and Care Wales was commissioned to review all the vaccination systems, to conduct a technical, digital discovery, and to provide options that would enable us to realise these ambitions. Now, what I can tell you is that that work has been concluded by DHCW and they've provided options for implementation of a programme of digital vaccination transformation. So, we're considering these options, and I am currently waiting for the advice on that. So, I think the digital changes do offer that opportunity that you were talking about—a single source of truth, that's what we'd like to see—and a complete and accurate vaccination record. I don't know about you, but if you ever try and go abroad, you have to try and find your vaccination record. It's always a trouble. We need to get modern. We need to get a digital system. So, I think no more paper vaccination records—that's where we need to get to. We're on course to move on towards that, and I'm just about to receive some advice on that. Diolch yn fawr.
Diolch yn fawr, Mabon. Rydych chi'n llygad eich lle, rwy'n credu bod camwybodaeth yn rhywbeth y dylem ni i gyd fod yn bryderus iawn amdano ac mae sicrhau y gall pobl gael gafael ar gyngor diogel lle gallant gael sicrwydd yn bwysig. Dyna pam rwy'n credu bod gan Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru ran allweddol iawn yma, ac yn amlwg y Cyd-bwyllgor ar Imiwneiddio a Brechu hefyd. Rydych chi'n llygad eich lle bod petruster o ran brechlynnau, yn enwedig mewn perthynas ag MMR—yr hyn a ddigwyddodd yw ein bod ni'n gwybod bod adeg pan gafwyd yr holl wybodaeth anghywir honno ychydig flynyddoedd yn ôl, felly mae carfan o blant rydym ni'n arbennig o bryderus amdanyn nhw, a byddem yn gofyn iddyn nhw ddod ymlaen, neu o leiaf wirio eu cofnodion dim ond i wneud yn siŵr eu bod yn cael eu cynnwys, oherwydd nid yw'n rhywbeth yr ydych chi eisiau ei gael, ac rydym ni'n gweld yr achosion cynyddol hyn. Mae gennym ni achosion—. Rydym ni wedi gweld achosion yn Aneurin Bevan, yng Nghaerdydd, a hefyd nawr rydym ni wedi cael un achos yn y gogledd.
Roeddech chi'n holi am waith traws-adrannol. Wel, yn amlwg, rhaglen ysgol yw'r brechiad, felly yn amlwg mae llawer o waith yn digwydd gydag addysg yn barod.
O ran darlledu ac a fyddai awdurdod darlledu canolog a rheoledig yng Nghymru, mewn rhyw ffordd, yn gallu rheoli hyn, dw i'n meddwl, dw i'n credu bod hynny'n eithaf anodd oherwydd bod pobl ifanc, er enghraifft, llawer ohonyn nhw, yn cael eu gwybodaeth o TikTok. Pob lwc os ydych chi'n meddwl eich bod chi'n mynd i reoli TikTok. Felly, rwy'n credu bod yn rhaid i ni fod yn realistig ynglŷn â ble y gallwn ni ddylanwadu.
Dim ond o ran eich cwestiwn ynghylch seilwaith digidol, y fframwaith imiwneiddio cenedlaethol, nododd uchelgais i ddatblygu'r seilwaith digidol sydd ei angen, a'r holl ddiben oedd bod hynny i fod yn system sy'n gweithio i ymarferwyr a chleifion. Felly, comisiynwyd Iechyd a Gofal Digidol Cymru i adolygu'r holl systemau brechu, i gynnal darganfyddiad technegol, digidol, ac i ddarparu dewisiadau a fyddai'n ein galluogi i wireddu'r uchelgeisiau hyn. Nawr, yr hyn y gallaf ei ddweud wrthych yw bod y gwaith hwnnw wedi'i gwblhau gan Iechyd a Gofal Digidol Cymru ac maen nhw wedi darparu dewisiadau ar gyfer gweithredu rhaglen o drawsnewid brechiadau digidol. Felly, rydym ni'n ystyried y dewisiadau hyn, ac ar hyn o bryd rwy'n aros am y cyngor ar hynny. Felly, rwy'n credu bod y newidiadau digidol yn cynnig y cyfle hwnnw yr oeddech chi'n sôn amdano—un ffynhonnell o wirionedd, dyna beth fydden ni'n hoffi ei weld—a record frechu gyflawn a chywir. Wn i ddim amdanoch chi, ond os ydych chi byth yn ceisio mynd dramor, mae'n rhaid i chi geisio dod o hyd i'ch cofnod brechu. Mae bob amser yn drafferth. Mae'n rhaid i ni fod yn fodern. Mae'n rhaid i ni gael system ddigidol. Felly, dw i'n meddwl dim mwy o gofnodion brechu papur—dyna lle mae angen i ni gyrraedd. Rydym ni ar y trywydd iawn i symud ymlaen tuag at hynny, ac rydw i ar fin cael rhywfaint o gyngor ar hynny. Diolch yn fawr.
Diolch i'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet am y datganiad yna.
I thank the Cabinet Secretary for that statement.
Eitem 7 sydd nesaf. Y Rheoliadau Defnydd Mandadol o Deledu Cylch Cyfyng mewn Lladd-dai (Cymru) 2024 yw'r rheoliadau yma. Yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet dros Newid Hinsawdd a Materion Gwledig sy'n gwneud y cynnig. Huw Irranca-Davies.
Item 7 is next, the Mandatory Use of Closed Circuit Television in Slaughterhouses (Wales) Regulations 2024. The Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs to move the motion. Huw Irranca-Davies.
Cynnig NDM8586 Jane Hutt
Cynnig bod y Senedd, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 27.5, yn cymeradwyo bod y fersiwn ddrafft o Reoliadau Defnydd Mandadol o Deledu Cylch Cyfyng mewn Lladd-dai (Cymru) 2024 yn cael ei llunio yn unol â’r fersiwn ddrafft a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 30 Ebrill 2024.
Motion NDM8586 Jane Hutt
To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 27.5, approves that the draft The Mandatory Use of Closed Circuit Television in Slaughterhouses (Wales) Regulations 2024 is made in accordance with the draft laid in the Table Office on 30 April 2024.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Diolch, Llywydd. Animal welfare is a priority for this Welsh Government. We want our farmed animals to have a good life, and we take welfare at slaughterhouses seriously. The Mandatory Use of Closed Circuit Television in Slaughterhouses (Wales) Regulations 2024 will require CCTV cameras to be installed in slaughterhouses in areas where live animals are unloaded, kept, handled, stunned and killed. Recorded images will need to be retained by the slaughterhouse operator for a 90-day minimum period, and made available to authorised persons, for example official veterinarians of the Food Standards Agency, to view, to copy or seize for the purpose of monitoring and verifying animal welfare standards.
So, subject to Senedd approval, the regulations will come into force in two stages. First, regulations 1 to 4 will come into force on 1 June. These are the requirements to install and operate a CCTV system and to keep CCTV footage and information. Second, regulations 5 to 14 will come into force on 1 December. These are the offences and the powers to inspect, to seize and enforce the regulations. So, this provides a six-month period where the FSA will support slaughterhouse operators to ensure they are compliant with the requirements of regulations 1 to 4 ahead of the regulations being enforced. We have worked with the FSA to develop guidance to help operators comply with the regulations. Just to say, slaughterhouse operators have been aware of our intention to require CCTV in slaughterhouses since 2021, when the chief veterinary officer first wrote to advise them of this programme for government commitment. He then wrote again recently to advice operators that the regulations had been laid.
Now, let's be clear, CCTV cannot replace direct oversight by slaughterhouse management or official veterinarians of the FSA, but we know it can improve the efficiency of monitoring and enforcement. FSA data for 2022/23 indicate at least 15 per cent of slaughterhouse non-compliances are identified either by live or retrospective CCTV viewing, and CCTV is routinely used as evidence to support enforcement action. A review of CCTV in slaughterhouses in England, where it has been mandatory since 2018, identified benefits to animal welfare and the assurance of welfare standards. CCTV recordings can also be a useful tool for slaughterhouse operators when training new and existing staff. So, all of this supports improved consumer confidence that welfare standards are being delivered.
When my predecessor, the Minister for rural affairs, consulted on proposals, there were over 16,000 responses. The overwhelming majority agreed that CCTV cameras should be installed in all slaughterhouses in areas where live animals are present. And to be clear, most of our slaughterhouses do already have some form of CCTV in place. Our larger slaughterhouses, which process the majority of animals, already adhere to a protocol jointly developed by the FSA and industry bodies to enable official veterinarians access to CCTV footage. The cost to slaughterhouse operators in complying with the requirements to the regulations will vary, depending on the size and the layout of each premises, and the explanatory memorandum and the regulatory impact assessment give a fair and reasonable view of the expected impact of the regulations, and I'm satisfied the benefits justify the likely costs. I would also like to take this moment to thank the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for its report on the regulations, which we have noted. So, Llywydd, I ask Members to approve the regulations. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Diolch, Llywydd. Mae lles anifeiliaid yn flaenoriaeth i'r Llywodraeth hon yng Nghymru. Mae arnom ni eisiau i'n hanifeiliaid fferm gael bywyd da, ac rydym yn cymryd lles mewn lladd-dai o ddifrif. Bydd Rheoliadau Defnydd Mandadol o Deledu Cylch Cyfyng mewn Lladd-dai (Cymru) 2024 yn ei gwneud hi'n ofynnol gosod camerâu cylch cyfyng mewn lladd-dai mewn ardaloedd lle mae anifeiliaid byw yn cael eu dadlwytho, eu cadw, eu trin, eu stynio a'u lladd. Bydd angen i weithredwr y lladd-dy gadw delweddau wedi'u recordio am gyfnod o 90 diwrnod o leiaf, a'u bod ar gael i bersonau awdurdodedig, er enghraifft milfeddygon swyddogol yr Asiantaeth Safonau Bwyd, i weld, copïo neu atafaelu at ddibenion monitro a gwirio safonau lles anifeiliaid.
Felly, yn amodol ar gymeradwyaeth y Senedd, bydd y rheoliadau yn dod i rym mewn dau gam. Yn gyntaf, bydd rheoliadau 1 i 4 yn dod i rym ar 1 Mehefin. Dyma'r gofynion i osod a gweithredu system teledu cylch cyfyng a chadw lluniau a gwybodaeth teledu cylch cyfyng. Yn ail, bydd rheoliadau 5 i 14 yn dod i rym ar 1 Rhagfyr. Dyma'r troseddau a'r pwerau i archwilio, atafaelu a gorfodi'r rheoliadau. Felly, mae hyn yn darparu cyfnod o chwe mis lle bydd yr Asiantaeth Safonau Bwyd yn cefnogi gweithredwyr lladd-dai i sicrhau eu bod yn cydymffurfio â gofynion rheoliadau 1 i 4 cyn gorfodi'r rheoliadau. Rydym ni wedi gweithio gyda'r Asiantaeth Safonau Bwyd i ddatblygu canllawiau i helpu gweithredwyr i gydymffurfio â'r rheoliadau. Mae gweithredwyr lladd-dai wedi bod yn ymwybodol o'n bwriad i fynnu teledu cylch cyfyng mewn lladd-dai ers 2021, pan ysgrifennodd y prif swyddog milfeddygol gyntaf i'w cynghori am ymrwymiad y rhaglen lywodraethu. Yna ysgrifennodd eto yn ddiweddar yn cynghori gweithredwyr bod y rheoliadau wedi'u cyflwyno.
Nawr, gadewch i ni fod yn glir, ni all teledu cylch cyfyng ddisodli goruchwyliaeth uniongyrchol gan reolwyr lladd-dai neu filfeddygon swyddogol yr Asiantaeth Safonau Bwyd, ond fe wyddom ni y gall wella effeithlonrwydd monitro a gorfodi. Mae data'r Asiantaeth Safonau Bwyd ar gyfer 2022/23 yn dangos bod o leiaf 15 y cant o achosion o ddiffyg cydymffurfio mewn lladd-dai yn cael eu nodi naill ai trwy wylio teledu cylch cyfyng yn fyw neu wedyn, ac mae teledu cylch cyfyng yn cael ei ddefnyddio'n rheolaidd fel tystiolaeth i gefnogi camau gorfodi. Nododd adolygiad o deledu cylch cyfyng mewn lladd-dai yn Lloegr, lle bu yn orfodol ers 2018, fanteision i les anifeiliaid a sicrwydd safonau lles. Gall recordiadau teledu cylch cyfyng hefyd fod yn offeryn defnyddiol i weithredwyr lladd-dai wrth hyfforddi staff newydd a phresennol. Felly, mae hyn i gyd yn rhoi mwy o hyder i ddefnyddwyr bod safonau lles yn cael eu cyflawni.
Pan ymgynghorodd fy rhagflaenydd, y Gweinidog materion gwledig, ar gynigion, cafwyd dros 16,000 o ymatebion. Cytunodd y mwyafrif llethol y dylid gosod camerâu cylch cyfyng ym mhob lladd-dy mewn ardaloedd lle mae anifeiliaid byw yn bresennol. Ac i fod yn glir, mae gan y rhan fwyaf o'n lladd-dai ryw fath o deledu cylch cyfyng eisoes ar waith. Mae ein lladd-dai mwy, sy'n prosesu'r rhan fwyaf o anifeiliaid, eisoes yn cadw at brotocol a ddatblygwyd ar y cyd gan yr Asiantaeth Safonau Bwyd a chyrff y diwydiant i alluogi milfeddygon swyddogol i gael mynediad at luniau teledu cylch cyfyng. Bydd y gost i weithredwyr lladd-dai wrth gydymffurfio â gofynion y rheoliadau yn amrywio, yn dibynnu ar faint a chynllun pob adeilad, ac mae'r memorandwm esboniadol a'r asesiad effaith rheoleiddiol yn rhoi golwg deg a rhesymol ar effaith ddisgwyliedig y rheoliadau, ac rwy'n fodlon bod y buddion yn cyfiawnhau'r costau tebygol. Hoffwn hefyd achub ar y cyfle hwn i ddiolch i'r Pwyllgor Deddfwriaeth, Cyfiawnder a'r Cyfansoddiad am ei adroddiad ar y rheoliadau, yr ydym ni wedi'u nodi. Felly, Llywydd, gofynnaf i'r Aelodau gymeradwyo'r rheoliadau. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
I'd like to thank the Cabinet Secretary for bringing forward these regulations. Today, my colleagues and I in the Welsh Conservative group will be supporting these regulations that you have tabled, as we firmly believe that the mandatory use of closed-circuit television in slaughterhouses across Wales is required to drive up standards across the industry. Animal welfare is a cornerstone of our values in Wales, and these regulations, we believe, are a vital step towards ensuring humane treatment of an animal throughout their life. Right now, upholding animal welfare in slaughterhouses relies on inspection and self-reporting. While these methods are valuable, they do have their limitations. A 2021 report by the RSPCA found that over 22 per cent of investigated welfare concerns stem from slaughterhouses, so CCTV offers a solution to addressing this issue. We also have to consider the public's trust in the food industry, and this hinges on openness. CCTV provides an objective record of animal handling and welfare, thus fostering the public confidence that these regulations are being followed, and driving up standards. As you said, Cabinet Secretary, authorised persons can review footage, allowing them to identify potential issues and investigate concerns more efficiently. Studies by the University of Bristol show that CCTV footage significantly improves detection of animal welfare breaches. People who work in slaughterhouses, if they know they're being recorded, it encourages those staff to be more consistent and adhere to practices and to not do anything that falls foul of the law.
I understand that some may be concerned about the cost or misuse of footage. However, I and the Conservative group believe that the benefits far outweigh these. The cost of implementing CCTV is minimal compared to the ethical and economic benefits of improving animal welfare. Stricter regulations ensure footage is solely used for monitoring and enforcement purposes only. The Welsh Government's own impact assessment on these regulations highlights that, while larger slaughterhouses already have CCTV, there are many across the country that do not. This creates an uneven playing field and limits oversight. So, we believe that this is another reason why it is needed.
But, as you said, Cabinet Secretary, this is not about replacing inspections; it's about strengthening the entire animal welfare monitoring system right across Wales. I know there have been concerns from smaller slaughterhouses right across Wales, but I would say to those people: do not see this as a hindrance. See this as a help in actually improving animal welfare standards and improving public confidence in the food that we're producing here across Wales. We do have a long and proud history in Wales of championing animal welfare, and these regulations demonstrate our continued commitment to that. By implementing these regulations, we are sending a clear message that cruelty towards animals will not be tolerated. We must use every tool at our disposal to ensure every animal's well-being, right through the food chain. So, I urge everybody in this Chamber today to give your full support for these important regulations, and we'll be supporting the Cabinet Secretary this afternoon.
Fe hoffwn i ddiolch i'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet am gyflwyno'r rheoliadau hyn. Heddiw, bydd fy nghyd-Aelodau a minnau yng ngrŵp y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn cefnogi'r rheoliadau hyn yr ydych chi wedi'u cyflwyno, gan ein bod yn credu'n gryf bod angen i'r defnydd gorfodol o deledu cylch cyfyng mewn lladd-dai ledled Cymru godi safonau ar draws y diwydiant. Mae lles anifeiliaid yn gonglfaen i'n gwerthoedd yng Nghymru, ac rydym ni'n credu bod y rheoliadau hyn yn gam hanfodol tuag at sicrhau bod anifail yn cael ei drin yn drugarog drwy gydol ei oes. Ar hyn o bryd, mae cynnal lles anifeiliaid mewn lladd-dai yn dibynnu ar arolygu a hunan-adrodd. Er bod y dulliau hyn yn werthfawr, mae ganddyn nhw eu cyfyngiadau. Canfu adroddiad yn 2021 gan yr RSPCA fod dros 22 y cant o bryderon lles yr ymchwiliwyd iddyn nhw yn deillio o ladd-dai, felly mae teledu cylch cyfyng yn cynnig ateb i fynd i'r afael â'r mater hwn. Mae'n rhaid i ni hefyd ystyried ymddiriedaeth y cyhoedd yn y diwydiant bwyd, ac mae hyn yn dibynnu ar fod yn agored. Mae teledu cylch cyfyng yn gofnod gwrthrychol o drin a lles anifeiliaid, gan feithrin hyder y cyhoedd bod y rheoliadau hyn yn cael eu dilyn, a chodi safonau. Fel y dywedoch chi, Ysgrifennydd Cabinet, gall pobl awdurdodedig adolygu lluniau, gan ganiatáu iddyn nhw nodi materion posibl ac ymchwilio i bryderon yn fwy effeithlon. Mae astudiaethau gan Brifysgol Bryste yn dangos bod lluniau teledu cylch cyfyng yn gwella'n sylweddol y broses o ganfod achosion o dorri safonau lles anifeiliaid. Mae pobl sy'n gweithio mewn lladd-dai, os ydyn nhw'n gwybod eu bod yn cael eu recordio, mae'n annog y staff hynny i fod yn fwy cyson a chadw at arferion ac i beidio â gwneud unrhyw beth sy'n groes i'r gyfraith.
Rwy'n deall y gallai rhai fod yn bryderus am gost neu gamddefnyddio lluniau. Fodd bynnag, rydw i a'r grŵp Ceidwadol yn credu bod y manteision yn gwrthbwyso'r rhain o gryn dipyn. Mae cost gweithredu teledu cylch cyfyng yn fach iawn o'i gymharu â manteision moesegol ac economaidd gwella lles anifeiliaid. Mae rheoliadau llymach yn sicrhau bod deunydd yn cael ei ddefnyddio at ddibenion monitro a gorfodi yn unig. Mae asesiad effaith Llywodraeth Cymru ei hun ar y rheoliadau hyn yn amlygu, er bod teledu cylch cyfyng eisoes mewn lladd-dai mwy, mae yna lawer ar draws y wlad hebddynt. Mae hyn yn creu sefyllfa annheg ac yn cyfyngu ar oruchwyliaeth. Felly, credwn fod hyn yn rheswm arall pam mae ei angen.
Ond, fel y dywedoch chi, Ysgrifennydd Cabinet, nid yw hyn yn ymwneud â disodli arolygiadau; mae'n ymwneud â chryfhau'r holl system o fonitro lles anifeiliaid ledled Cymru. Rwy'n gwybod y bu yna bryderon gan ladd-dai llai ledled Cymru, ond byddwn i'n dweud wrth y bobl hynny: peidiwch â gweld hyn fel rhwystr. Gwelwch hyn fel help i wella safonau lles anifeiliaid mewn gwirionedd a gwella hyder y cyhoedd yn y bwyd yr ydym ni'n ei gynhyrchu yma ledled Cymru. Mae gennym ni hanes hir a balch yng Nghymru o hyrwyddo lles anifeiliaid, ac mae'r rheoliadau hyn yn dangos ein hymrwymiad parhaus i hynny. Trwy weithredu'r rheoliadau hyn, rydym ni'n anfon neges glir na fydd creulondeb tuag at anifeiliaid yn cael ei oddef. Mae'n rhaid i ni ddefnyddio pob offeryn sydd ar gael i ni i sicrhau lles pob anifail, trwy'r gadwyn fwyd. Felly, rwy'n annog pawb yn y Siambr hon heddiw i roi eich cefnogaeth lawn i'r rheoliadau pwysig hyn, a byddwn yn cefnogi'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet y prynhawn yma.
Likewise, Plaid Cymru will be supporting these regulations as well, although I do have some concerns around the financial implications for the smaller abattoirs, which obviously will have this expected of them. There are already many of them operating on a very tight margin, and they are a vital part of rural economies. They offer a higher value route to market for native and rare breeds, which is something that the larger abattoirs don't tend to do, or they're unable to, maybe, sometimes, or even unwilling to do so, so we need to be careful here that we don't lose something in introducing these regulations. And they also do support higher standards of animal welfare, by the way, because smaller local abattoirs help, of course, to reduce journey times to slaughter, so we don't inadvertently want to find that we have fewer of the smaller abattoirs and subsequently animals have to travel further, because that will obviously introduce a different element of welfare concern.
So, my question, effectively, that I would ask you to maybe address in responding to this debate is: what kind of financial support measures would you be considering, potentially, as a Government, to support the smaller abattoirs to comply with these new regulations? Because I think the total capital cost is £40,000 for CCTV installation. It wouldn't be a huge contribution from the Welsh Government, but, for the smaller abattoirs it would make, I think, a big difference. I know that the UK Government a few months ago announced a £4 million smaller abattoirs fund. They've actually had to increase the maximum level of grant allowed because smaller abattoirs are struggling and need more support. So, I’m just wondering—. There may or may not have been a Barnett consequential to that, but, if not, do you have anything in mind in terms of helping the smaller players, in what is a very important contribution that they make in so many ways, to implement these regulations effectively? Diolch.
Yn yr un modd, bydd Plaid Cymru yn cefnogi'r rheoliadau hyn hefyd, er bod gen i rai pryderon ynghylch y goblygiadau ariannol i'r lladd-dai llai, y bydd hyn yn amlwg yn ddisgwyliedig ganddyn nhw. Mae llawer ohonyn nhw eisoes yn hwylio'n agos iawn at y dibyn, ac maen nhw'n rhan hanfodol o economïau gwledig. Maen nhw'n cynnig llwybr gwerth uwch i'r farchnad ar gyfer bridiau brodorol a phrin, sy'n rhywbeth nad yw'r lladd-dai mwy yn tueddu i'w wneud, neu nad ydyn nhw'n gallu gwneud, efallai, weithiau, neu hyd yn oed yn amharod i wneud hynny, felly mae angen i ni fod yn ofalus yma nad ydym ni'n colli rhywbeth wrth gyflwyno'r rheoliadau hyn. Ac maen nhw hefyd yn cefnogi safonau uwch o les anifeiliaid, gyda llaw, oherwydd mae lladd-dai lleol llai yn helpu, wrth gwrs, i leihau amseroedd teithio i'w lladd, felly does arnom ni ddim eisiau gweld yn anfwriadol bod gennym ni lai o'r lladd-dai llai ac wedi hynny bod yn rhaid i anifeiliaid deithio ymhellach, oherwydd bydd hynny'n amlwg yn cyflwyno elfen wahanol o bryder lles.
Felly, fy nghwestiwn i, i bob diben, y byddwn i'n gofyn i chi fynd i'r afael ag ef efallai wrth ymateb i'r ddadl hon yw: pa fath o fesurau cymorth ariannol fyddech chi'n eu hystyried, o bosibl, fel Llywodraeth, i gefnogi'r lladd-dai llai i gydymffurfio â'r rheoliadau newydd hyn? Oherwydd rwy'n credu mai cyfanswm y gost gyfalaf yw £40,000 ar gyfer gosod teledu cylch cyfyng. Ni fyddai'n gyfraniad enfawr gan Lywodraeth Cymru, ond, i'r lladd-dai llai byddai'n gwneud gwahaniaeth mawr, rwy'n credu. Rwy'n gwybod bod Llywodraeth y DU ychydig fisoedd yn ôl wedi cyhoeddi cronfa lladd-dai llai gwerth £4 miliwn. Maen nhw mewn gwirionedd wedi gorfod cynyddu'r uchafswm grant a ganiateir oherwydd bod lladd-dai llai yn ei chael hi'n anodd ac angen mwy o gefnogaeth. Felly, dim ond pendroni ydw i—. Efallai y bu neu na fu cyllid canlyniadol Barnett i hynny, ond, os nad oedd, oes gennych chi unrhyw beth mewn golwg o ran helpu'r lladd-dai llai, o ran yr hyn sy'n gyfraniad pwysig iawn y maen nhw'n ei wneud mewn cymaint o ffyrdd, i weithredu'r rheoliadau hyn yn effeithiol? Diolch.
Llywydd, earlier in the year, I was part of a Senedd delegation to the Falkland Islands with Members of the Senedd, where we talked of mutual areas of interest and the spokesperson for the Welsh Conservatives this afternoon, I can say with confidence, demonstrated his knowledge on this particular area and spoke at length during our period overseas and certainly brought me up to speed on this topic.
Presiding Officer, if passed today, these regulations will deliver on the actions sought by a petition, P-04-433, 'CCTV in Slaughterhouses', which was first submitted back in 2012. That petition was submitted by Kate Fowler on behalf of Animal Aid and it received over 1,066 signatures in support. Back in 2020—I think the Chair was Janet Finch-Saunders then—the committee wrote a report and made the following recommendation:
'The Welsh Government makes the installation and maintenance of CCTV monitoring systems mandatory in all slaughterhouses in Wales.'
I was pleased to read that, in 2020, the Welsh Government did accept the recommendation in principle, and I’m pleased, with the support of the Senedd and Senedd approval after today, that it will be accepted in practice.
Llywydd, the journey of a good idea from conception to national policy is not always a straight line, it is not always as straightforward as it may seem or we may wish it to be, but I do hope yourself and the Cabinet Secretary in responding can join me in congratulating the petitioner and all those who signed that petition over a decade ago now. Diolch.
Llywydd, yn gynharach yn y flwyddyn, roeddwn i'n rhan o ddirprwyaeth o'r Senedd i Ynysoedd Falkland gydag Aelodau o'r Senedd, lle buom yn siarad am feysydd o gyd-ddiddordeb a bu i lefarydd y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig y prynhawn yma, gallaf ddweud yn hyderus, ddangos ei wybodaeth am y maes penodol hwn a siarad yn helaeth yn ystod ein cyfnod dramor a bu iddo yn sicr fy ngoleuo ar y pwnc hwn.
Llywydd, os cânt eu pasio heddiw, bydd y rheoliadau hyn yn cyflawni'r camau y gofynnwyd amdanyn nhw gan ddeiseb, P-04-433, 'Teledu Cylch Cyfyng mewn Lladd-dai', a gyflwynwyd gyntaf yn ôl yn 2012. Cyflwynwyd y ddeiseb honno gan Kate Fowler ar ran Animal Aid a derbyniodd dros 1,066 o lofnodion i gefnogi. Yn ôl yn 2020—dw i'n meddwl mai'r Cadeirydd oedd Janet Finch-Saunders bryd hynny—fe ysgrifennodd y pwyllgor adroddiad a gwneud yr argymhelliad canlynol:
'Bod Llywodraeth Cymru ei gwneud yn orfodol i osod a chynnal systemau teledu cylch cyfyng ym mhob lladd-dy yng Nghymru.'
Roeddwn yn falch o ddarllen bod Llywodraeth Cymru, yn 2020, wedi derbyn yr argymhelliad mewn egwyddor, ac rwy'n falch, gyda chefnogaeth y Senedd a chymeradwyaeth y Senedd ar ôl heddiw, y caiff ei dderbyn yn ymarferol.
Llywydd, nid yw datblygiad syniad da o'i genhedlu i bolisi cenedlaethol bob amser yn llinell syth, nid yw bob amser mor syml ag y gallai ymddangos neu efallai y dymunwn iddo fod, ond rwy'n gobeithio y gallwch chi a'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet wrth ymateb ymuno â mi i longyfarch y deisebydd a phawb a lofnododd y ddeiseb honno dros ddegawd yn ôl nawr. Diolch.
Yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet i ymateb.
The Cabinet Secretary to reply.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd, and thank you to everybody who has contributed to this debate, and can I thank everybody for their support as well? I’ll deal with the questions that have arisen in a moment. But, James, thank you so much for the way you’ve spoken, signalling support for this, both on animal welfare grounds, but also, as I touched on in my opening remarks, on consumer confidence as well, and the fact that we need to speak strongly about our good animal welfare standards and then make it happen right across the piste, and reiterating as well some of the evidence that shows that this actually works; it really does work.
I thank you as well for what you’re saying, that the fact that the cost is really minimal compared to the benefits that accrue from this, which brings me, Llyr, to your points, and, again, thank you for your support on this as well and for Plaid Cymru’s support on this. The first thing to point out is that the cost is indeed, as James mentioned, fairly low in terms of the overall costs of the operating even of a small abattoir, and I have small abattoirs in my own town that I live in. But just out of interest—. I mentioned earlier on the long lead-in time we gave them in order to allow people to prepare for this. But, on the funding, first of all, let me say we will keep on working with the FSA and with slaughterhouse operators in a very supportive relationship to make sure that this is rolled out. We have already made funding available through the food business investment scheme to support small and medium-sized slaughterhouses to, amongst other things, install and upgrade their CCTV systems. Now, the food business investment scheme closed previously. There were eight applications invited, of which three projects were successfully completed, with several thousand pounds of grants supported for CCTV installation. Then the food business accelerator scheme opened up in November 2022 to provide capital grants to support investment in manufacturing equipment and modernising to increase efficiency. Interestingly, there weren’t any applications from slaughterhouses for this fund, but if funding does become available—and that is an ‘if’, I have to say, at the moment, bearing in mind the situation we’re in at the moment—if funding becomes available, that scheme may reopen.
But just to say as well that the Welsh Government food division provides a range of industry support that small abattoirs in Wales can access to enhance productivity, including business growth, skills, scale-up and finance support. The reason I say that is, whilst we don’t have a dedicated scheme right here, right now, which we've had before, which could have been accessed for CCTV installation, there are other schemes there that a small abattoir, with some advice, speaking to the operators on the ground, with the support of the FSA, can access for their overall business that might help mitigate the other minimal costs here of actually putting in place CCTV.
Let me turn, then, finally—. And Jack referred to the petition back in 2012 brought by Kate Fowler, with the immense number of signatories on that, and we do absolutely give credit to all those who've supported this over many, many years. It's a decade. This has been a long time in coming. But we'll have a six-month lead-in before we get to enforcement, so we'll work with slaughterhouses, and, as Llyr was saying, those small and medium-sized slaughterhouses that are so important to the fabric of our rural communities and our food production system. We'll make this work, we'll do it sensitively. But there has been a massive demand to actually get on with this and put it in place and do it well, so we will do that.
Can I just say in closing, Llywydd, this has also been a long-running campaign of individuals in the Maesteg Animal Welfare Society, which celebrates its fiftieth anniversary this year, which they've invited me to recently? I spoke before this weekend to one of the organisers of that, and she was beside herself with the fact that we're now getting on with this. So, well done to everybody who has campaigned for this, and I hope the Senedd this afternoon will support it. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd, a diolch i bawb sydd wedi cyfrannu at y ddadl hon, ac a gaf i ddiolch i bawb am eu cefnogaeth hefyd? Byddaf yn ymdrin â'r cwestiynau sydd wedi codi mewn eiliad. Ond, James, diolch yn fawr iawn i chi am y ffordd rydych chi wedi siarad, gan awgrymu cefnogaeth ar gyfer hyn, ar sail lles anifeiliaid, ond hefyd, fel y soniais yn fy sylwadau agoriadol, o ran hyder defnyddwyr hefyd, a'r ffaith bod angen i ni siarad yn gryf am ein safonau lles anifeiliaid da ac yna cyflawni hynny drwy Gymru benbaladr, ac ailadrodd yn ogystal rywfaint o'r dystiolaeth sy'n dangos bod hyn yn gweithio mewn gwirionedd; mae yn wir yn gweithio.
Diolch i chi hefyd am yr hyn rydych chi'n ei ddweud, bod y ffaith bod y gost yn fach iawn o'i gymharu â'r manteision sy'n cronni o hyn, sy'n dod â mi, Llyr, at eich pwyntiau, ac unwaith eto, diolch i chi am gefnogi hyn hefyd ac am gefnogaeth Plaid Cymru ynghylch hyn. Y peth cyntaf i'w nodi yw bod y gost yn wir, fel y soniodd James, yn weddol isel o ran costau cyffredinol gweithredu hyd yn oed lladd-dy bach, ac mae gen i ladd-dai bach yn fy nhref fy hun yr wyf yn byw ynddi. Ond o ran diddordeb—. Soniais yn gynharach am yr amser paratoi hir a roesom ni iddyn nhw er mwyn caniatáu i bobl baratoi ar gyfer hyn. Ond, o ran y cyllid, yn gyntaf oll, gadewch imi ddweud y byddwn yn parhau i weithio gyda'r Asiantaeth Safonau Bwyd a chyda gweithredwyr lladd-dai mewn perthynas gefnogol iawn i sicrhau bod hyn yn cael ei gyflwyno. Rydym ni eisoes wedi sicrhau bod cyllid ar gael drwy'r cynllun buddsoddi mewn busnesau bwyd i gefnogi lladd-dai bach a chanolig eu maint i, ymhlith pethau eraill, osod ac uwchraddio eu systemau teledu cylch cyfyng. Nawr, caeodd y cynllun buddsoddi busnesau bwyd yn flaenorol. Gwahoddwyd wyth cais, gyda thri phrosiect wedi'u cwblhau'n llwyddiannus, gyda sawl mil o bunnau o grantiau yn cael eu cefnogi ar gyfer gosod teledu cylch cyfyng. Yna agorodd y cynllun cyflymu busnesau bwyd ym mis Tachwedd 2022 i ddarparu grantiau cyfalaf i gefnogi buddsoddiad mewn offer gweithgynhyrchu a moderneiddio i gynyddu effeithlonrwydd. Yn ddiddorol, ni chafwyd unrhyw geisiadau o ladd-dai ar gyfer y gronfa hon, ond os daw cyllid ar gael—ac mae hynny yn 'os', mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud, ar hyn o bryd, o gofio'r sefyllfa yr ydym ni ynddi ar hyn o bryd—os daw cyllid ar gael, gall y cynllun hwnnw ailagor.
Ond dim ond i ddweud hefyd bod is-adran fwyd Llywodraeth Cymru yn darparu ystod o gymorth i'r diwydiant y gall lladd-dai bach yng Nghymru ei ddefnyddio i wella cynhyrchiant, gan gynnwys twf busnes, sgiliau, ehangu a chymorth cyllid. Y rheswm pam rwy'n dweud hynny yw, er nad oes gennym ni gynllun penodol yma, ar hyn o bryd, yr ydym ni wedi'i gael o'r blaen, y gellid bod wedi cael mynediad ato ar gyfer gosod teledu cylch cyfyng, mae cynlluniau eraill ar gael y gall lladd-dy bach, gyda rhywfaint o gyngor, o siarad â'r gweithredwyr ar lawr gwlad, gyda chefnogaeth yr Asiantaeth Safonau Bwyd, fanteisio arnyn nhw ar gyfer eu busnes cyffredinol a allai helpu i liniaru'r costau bychain eraill yma o roi teledu cylch cyfyng ar waith mewn gwirionedd.
Gadewch imi droi, felly, o'r diwedd—. A chyfeiriodd Jack at y ddeiseb yn ôl yn 2012 a gyflwynwyd gan Kate Fowler, gyda'r nifer aruthrol o lofnodwyr, ac rydym ni'n gwbl ddiolchgar i bawb sydd wedi cefnogi hyn dros nifer o flynyddoedd. Mae'n ddegawd. Cymerodd hyn amser hir i ddod. Ond bydd gennym ni chwe mis o baratoi cyn i ni gyrraedd amser gorfodi, felly byddwn yn gweithio gyda lladd-dai, ac, fel roedd Llyr yn ei ddweud, y lladd-dai bach a chanolig hynny sydd mor bwysig i wead ein cymunedau gwledig a'n system gynhyrchu bwyd. Byddwn yn gwneud i hyn weithio, byddwn yn ei wneud yn dringar. Ond bu galw enfawr i fwrw ymlaen â hyn a'i roi ar waith a'i wneud yn dda, felly fe wnawn ni hynny.
A gaf i ddweud wrth gloi, Llywydd, bu hon hefyd yn ymgyrch hirhoedlog gan unigolion yng Nghymdeithas Lles Anifeiliaid Maesteg, sy'n dathlu ei hanner canmlwyddiant eleni, y maen nhw wedi fy ngwahodd i iddo yn ddiweddar? Siaradais cyn y penwythnos hwn ag un o drefnwyr hynny, ac roedd hi wrth ei bodd gyda'r ffaith ein bod ni nawr yn bwrw ymlaen â hyn. Felly, da iawn i bawb sydd wedi ymgyrchu dros hyn, ac rwy'n gobeithio y bydd y Senedd y prynhawn yma'n ei gefnogi. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynnig? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Nac oes. Felly, mae'r cynnig yna wedi ei dderbyn.
The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. The motion is therefore agreed.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Fydd yna ddim angen am bledleisiau heddiw.
There will be no votes this evening.
Y cyfan sy'n weddill i fi ei wneud yw datgan canlyniad y bleidlais ar gyfer cadeiryddiaeth y Pwyllgor Deddfwriaeth, Cyfiawnder a'r Cyfansoddiad. Fe gafodd Alun Davies 26 o bleidleisiau, fe gafodd Mike Hedges 27 o bleidleisiau, fe wnaeth un Aelod ymatal eu pleidlais ac wnaeth un Aelod ddifetha eu pleidlais. Fe fwriwyd 55 o bleidleisiau yn gyfan gwbl. Felly, mae Mike Hedges wedi cael ei ethol yn Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor Deddfwriaeth, Cyfiawnder a'r Cyfansoddiad, a phob hwyl i Mike Hedges yn ei waith.
Dyna ddiwedd ar ein gwaith ni am heddiw.
All that remains for me to do is to declare the result of the vote for the Chair of the LJC committee. Alun Davies received 26 votes, Mike Hedges received 27 votes, one Member abstained and one Member spoilt his or her ballot. Fifty-five votes were cast in total. So, Mike Hedges is elected Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, and we wish him well in his work.
That brings our proceedings to a close for today.
Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 17:27.
The meeting ended at 17:27.