Y Cyfarfod Llawn - Y Bumed Senedd
Plenary - Fifth Senedd
06/11/2019Cynnwys
Contents
Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 13:30 gyda’r Llywydd (Elin Jones) yn y Gadair.
The Assembly met at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.
Galw'r Aelodau i drefn.
I call Members to order.
Yr eitem gyntaf ar ein hagenda ni y prynhawn yma yw'r cwestiynau i Weinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth, ac rwyf wedi derbyn hysbysiad o dan Reol Sefydlog 12.58 y bydd Dirprwy Weinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth, Lee Waters, yn ateb y cwestiynau ar ran y Gweinidog y prynhawn yma. Felly, mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan David Rees.
The first item on our agenda this afternoon is questions to the Minister for Economy and Transport, and I have received notification under Standing Order 12.58 that the Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport, Lee Waters, will answer questions on behalf of the Minister this afternoon. Therefore, the first question is from David Rees.
1. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i ddiogelu swyddi gweithwyr dur Cymru? OAQ54632
1. What action is the Welsh Government taking to protect the jobs of Welsh steelworkers? OAQ54632
Thank you. The Welsh Government continues to take a cross-Government approach to support the steel industry and protect the jobs of Welsh steelworkers. We have, over the last three years, provided significant investment to support the industry in key areas, including skills development, environmental improvements, and research and development.
Diolch. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn parhau i ddefnyddio dull trawslywodraethol i gefnogi'r diwydiant dur a diogelu swyddi gweithwyr dur Cymru. Dros y tair blynedd diwethaf, rydym wedi darparu buddsoddiad sylweddol i gefnogi'r diwydiant mewn meysydd allweddol, gan gynnwys datblygu sgiliau, gwelliannau amgylcheddol, ac ymchwil a datblygu.
Thank you for that answer, Deputy Minister. Unlike the UK Government, which has failed to do anything on behalf of steel, and, I understand, even cancelled the latest steel council meeting, which was crucial because there's not one been held for 18 months, and they still haven't got one going—. They've also failed to actually produce an industrial strategy for the steel sector, and they've not even looked at tackling the issues of the equal playing field, particularly in energy costs, that we will need to have when we face a competitive global market in the steel sector.
I know that the Welsh Government, as you quite rightly pointed out, has been very active in supporting this industry and has been at the forefront, particularly for Welsh steelmakers, to ensure that steel stays at the heart of the Welsh industrial strategy. Can you answer as to whether the conditionality that the Welsh Government has put on some of that financial support to the works at Port Talbot, particularly in relation to the £30 million that was allocated to the Port Talbot works for the power plants, has been met, because the release of that money will allow the next stage of the power plant to progress, including, therefore, better use of waste gas, improvements in environmental standards, and more efficient and effective production, and lower cost because they're producing their own electricity rather than having to buy it off the grid at high costs that the UK Government are not addressing?
Diolch am eich ateb, Ddirprwy Weinidog. Yn wahanol i Lywodraeth y DU, sydd wedi methu gwneud unrhyw beth ar ran dur, ac wedi canslo cyfarfod diweddaraf y cyngor dur yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf, a oedd yn hollbwysig gan nad oes un wedi'i gynnal ers 18 mis, ac nid oes ganddynt un o hyd—. Maent hefyd wedi methu cynhyrchu strategaeth ddiwydiannol ar gyfer y sector dur, ac nid ydynt hyd yn oed wedi edrych ar fynd i'r afael â phroblemau mewn perthynas â chyfartalwch, yn enwedig o ran costau ynni, a bydd angen hynny arnom pan fyddwn yn wynebu marchnad fyd-eang gystadleuol yn y sector dur.
Gwn fod Llywodraeth Cymru, fel y nodoch yn hollol gywir, wedi bod yn weithgar iawn wrth gefnogi’r diwydiant hwn ac wedi bod ar flaen y gad, yn enwedig ar ran gwneuthurwyr dur o Gymru, i sicrhau bod dur yn parhau i fod wrth wraidd strategaeth ddiwydiannol Cymru. A allwch ateb p’un a yw'r amodoldeb y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i roi ar rywfaint o'r cymorth ariannol hwnnw i'r gwaith ym Mhort Talbot, yn enwedig mewn perthynas â'r £30 miliwn a ddyrannwyd i waith Port Talbot ar gyfer y gorsafoedd ynni, wedi'i fodloni, gan y bydd darparu’r arian hwnnw'n caniatáu i gam nesaf yr orsaf ynni fynd rhagddo, gan gynnwys, felly, gwell defnydd o nwy gwastraff, gwelliannau o ran safonau amgylcheddol, a chynhyrchiant mwy effeithlon ac effeithiol, a chostau is gan eu bod yn cynhyrchu eu trydan eu hunain yn hytrach na gorfod ei brynu oddi ar y grid am gostau uchel nad yw Llywodraeth y DU yn mynd i’r afael â hwy?
Thank you. I think David Rees has very well summarised there the state of play with the UK Government's absence of leadership on steel and the cancellation of the steel council meeting. We continue to be in close contact with Tata, as we have done for many years. As you noted, in the 2016 steel crisis, we provided £10 million skills funding towards an offer of £12 million towards the development of the workforce of Tata Steel. We've also offered some £666,000 for research and development into new product development.
In terms of the power plant, we have offered £8 million investment to date, but with the exception of the skills funding, Tata is unable to draw down the funding against these offers until we've agreed the conditions of funding. And, following the announcement in May that the proposed joint venture with Thyssenkrupp would not be going ahead, Tata Steel is now working on a new transformation plan for the company. And in light of these changes, we continue our engagement with the company, including discussions on potential support for the power plant.
Diolch. Credaf fod David Rees wedi crynhoi’r sefyllfa’n dda iawn o ran diffyg arweinyddiaeth Llywodraeth y DU ar ddur a chanslo cyfarfod y cyngor dur. Rydym yn parhau i fod mewn cysylltiad agos â Tata, fel rydym wedi bod ers blynyddoedd lawer. Fel y nodoch, yn argyfwng dur 2016, darparwyd cyllid sgiliau o £10 miliwn gennym tuag at gynnig o £12 miliwn tuag at ddatblygu gweithlu Tata Steel. Rydym hefyd wedi cynnig tua £666,000 ar gyfer gwaith ymchwil a datblygu ar ddatblygu cynnyrch newydd.
O ran yr orsaf ynni, rydym wedi cynnig buddsoddiad o £8 miliwn hyd yn hyn, ond ac eithrio'r cyllid sgiliau, ni ellir rhoi’r cyllid i Tata yn erbyn y cynigion hyn hyd nes ein bod wedi cytuno ar yr amodau cyllido. Ac yn dilyn y cyhoeddiad ym mis Mai na fyddai'r fenter arfaethedig ar y cyd â Thyssenkrupp yn mynd rhagddi, mae Tata Steel bellach yn gweithio ar gynllun trawsnewid newydd ar gyfer y cwmni. Ac yng ngoleuni'r newidiadau hyn, rydym yn parhau i ymgysylltu â'r cwmni, gan gynnwys trafod cymorth posibl i'r orsaf ynni.
As you are aware, Tata Steel in Shotton is a dynamic business and major exporter, but dependent upon the supply chain for sustainable British steel, and on feedstock from the heavy end in south Wales. On Monday, I received an e-mail, as did other Members representing the area, from Heathrow Airport, announcing that they're one of the 18 shortlisted Heathrow logistic hub sites, inviting them to formally enter the tender process for the Heathrow expansion. In response, your colleague the Minister for the Economy and Transport said he looked forward to continuing Welsh Government's work with the site promoters and the Heathrow team in this selection process. What will the Welsh Government therefore be doing in that context to support Tata, as well as the port in Cardiff—the other shortlisted Welsh bidder—to maximise the opportunities presented by this?
Fel y gwyddoch, mae Tata Steel yn Shotton yn fusnes deinamig ac yn allforiwr pwysig, ond mae'n dibynnu ar y gadwyn gyflenwi am ddur cynaliadwy Prydeinig, ac ar ddefnydd crai o'r pen trwm yn ne Cymru. Ddydd Llun, cefais e-bost, fel y gwnaeth Aelodau eraill sy'n cynrychioli'r ardal, gan Faes Awyr Heathrow, yn cyhoeddi eu bod yn un o'r 18 safle ar y rhestr fer i fod yn hwb logisteg i Heathrow, gan eu gwahodd i wneud cais ffurfiol i’r broses dendro ar gyfer gwaith ehangu Heathrow. Mewn ymateb, dywedodd eich cyd-Weinidog, Gweinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth, ei fod yn edrych ymlaen at barhau â gwaith Llywodraeth Cymru gyda hyrwyddwyr y safle a thîm Heathrow yn y broses ddethol hon. Beth fydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud felly yn y cyd-destun hwnnw i gefnogi Tata, yn ogystal â'r porthladd yng Nghaerdydd—y cynigydd arall o Gymru ar y rhestr fer—i wneud y mwyaf o'r cyfleoedd y mae hyn yn eu cynnig?
Well, it's excellent news that they've got through to the next round, and we've supported them all along the way, so we'll continue to offer that support to them. This is an investment that we welcome. If there is going to be this large infrastructure scheme in London, it's only fair that the benefits spread across the UK.
Wel, credaf fod y ffaith eu bod wedi cyrraedd y rownd nesaf yn newyddion gwych, ac rydym wedi eu cefnogi bob cam o’r ffordd, felly byddwn yn parhau i gynnig y gefnogaeth honno iddynt. Mae hwn yn fuddsoddiad rydym yn ei groesawu. Os yw’r cynllun seilwaith mawr hwn am gael ei roi ar waith yn Llundain, nid yw ond yn deg fod y buddion yn cael eu lledaenu ledled y DU.
Minister, the Orb steelworks in Newport should continue in operation, and, with the right level of support from Tata Steel, UK Government and Welsh Government, it would be enabled to produce electrical steels for electric car production in the future. There's a very strong local campaign to keep the Orb works in production, and, indeed, it's been a feature of economic life in Newport since the end of the nineteenth century. Could you reiterate the Welsh Government's support for that, and would you welcome a campaign launched today by the South Wales Argus, which has launched a petition in support of retaining that Orb steelworks plant?
Weinidog, dylai gwaith dur Orb yng Nghasnewydd barhau i weithredu, a chyda'r lefel gywir o gefnogaeth gan Tata Steel, Llywodraeth y DU a Llywodraeth Cymru, byddai'n cael ei alluogi i gynhyrchu duroedd trydanol ar gyfer cynhyrchiant ceir trydan yn y dyfodol. Mae ymgyrch leol gref iawn ar waith i sicrhau bod gwaith Orb yn parhau i weithredu, ac yn wir, mae wedi bod yn un o nodweddion bywyd economaidd yng Nghasnewydd ers diwedd y bedwaredd ganrif ar bymtheg. A allwch ailddatgan cefnogaeth Llywodraeth Cymru i hynny, ac a fyddech yn croesawu ymgyrch a lansiwyd heddiw gan y South Wales Argus, sydd wedi lansio deiseb o blaid cadw gwaith dur Orb?
Well, I can be very clear to John Griffiths that the Welsh Government does not want the Orb steelworks to close. We've been in discussion with Tata and with Community Union to see what can be done. Tata has continued to state the case that the plant is making substantial losses and there is oversupply in the world market, and they don't feel that there is a viable future. Now, Community Union have commissioned consultants themselves—Sindex—to explore alternatives to closure for Orb, and have created an outline proposal, which indicates that, with Welsh Government funding and a range of other changes by the company, a viable future is possible. We've received a summary of that proposal, and we'll need to understand the detail of it and Tata Steel's response to the recommendations. The First Minister will be meeting Community Union to discuss the proposal, and we'll be making sure that we properly understand what role we can play to give this a viable future.
Wel, gallaf ddweud yn glir iawn wrth John Griffiths nad yw Llywodraeth Cymru am weld gwaith dur Orb yn cau. Rydym wedi bod yn trafod gyda Tata ac Undeb Community i weld beth y gellir ei wneud. Mae Tata wedi parhau i ddadlau bod y gwaith yn gwneud colledion sylweddol a bod gorgyflenwad ym marchnad y byd, ac nad ydynt yn teimlo bod ganddo ddyfodol hyfyw. Nawr, mae Undeb Community wedi comisiynu ymgynghorwyr—Sindex—i archwilio opsiynau eraill yn lle cau Orb, ac wedi creu cynnig amlinellol, sy'n nodi, gyda chyllid Llywodraeth Cymru, ac ystod o newidiadau eraill gan y cwmni, fod dyfodol hyfyw yn bosibl. Rydym wedi derbyn crynodeb o'r cynnig hwnnw, a bydd angen i ni ddeall ei fanylion ac ymateb Tata Steel i'r argymhellion. Bydd y Prif Weinidog yn cyfarfod ag Undeb Community i drafod y cynnig, a byddwn yn sicrhau ein bod yn deall yn iawn pa rôl y gallwn ei chwarae, er mwyn rhoi dyfodol hyfyw i hyn.
2. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am fesurau i wella cefnffordd yr A4042 yn Llanelen? OAQ54622
2. Will the Minister provide an update on measures to improve the A4042 trunk road at Llanellen? OAQ54622
Well, there are no immediate plans to improve the A4042 trunk road at Llanellen. The Welsh Government, however, does routinely monitor the performance of the trunk road network.
Wel, nid oes unrhyw gynlluniau uniongyrchol i wella cefnffordd yr A4042 yn Llanelen. Fodd bynnag, mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn monitro perfformiad y rhwydwaith cefnffyrdd yn rheolaidd.
Thank you for that answer, Minister. You will no doubt be aware—or certainly your colleague Ken Skates is aware—of ongoing issues with flooding on the A4042 at Llanellen, particularly at this time of year. The road was closed again during the recent bad weather, causing traffic chaos for commuters. I'm particularly concerned that this route is going to be even more critical when accident and emergency, and other services, transfer from Nevill Hall to the new Grange University Hospital in Cwmbran, when also people from Brecon and Radnorshire and the south of Powys will be dependent on the new hospital as well, as this really could become a matter of life and death with increased journey times. I wonder if you could update us, or set in chain circumstances to update us, on improvements to this stretch of road, whether that be improved drainage, raising the road, or possibly, and probably best in the medium term, or longer term at least, a bypass for the village of Llanellen.
Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog. Mae'n siŵr eich bod yn ymwybodol—neu yn sicr, mae eich cyd-Weinidog Ken Skates yn ymwybodol—o’r problemau parhaus gyda llifogydd ar yr A4042 yn Llanelen, yn enwedig ar yr adeg hon o'r flwyddyn. Caewyd y ffordd eto yn ystod y tywydd gwael yn ddiweddar, gan achosi anhrefn i gymudwyr o ran traffig. Rwy'n arbennig o bryderus y bydd y llwybr hwn hyd yn oed yn fwy hanfodol pan fydd gwasanaethau damweiniau ac achosion brys, a gwasanaethau eraill, yn symud o Nevill Hall i Ysbyty Athrofaol y Grange yng Nghwmbrân, pan fydd pobl o Frycheiniog a Maesyfed a de Powys hefyd yn ddibynnol ar yr ysbyty newydd, gan y gallai hyn ddod yn fater o fywyd a marwolaeth gyda chynnydd mewn amseroedd teithio. Tybed a allech roi diweddariad i ni, neu sicrhau’r amgylchiadau cywir i roi diweddariad i ni, ar welliannau i'r darn hwn o ffordd, boed hynny'n golygu gwell draenio, codi'r ffordd, neu o bosibl, ac yn ôl pob tebyg yr opsiwn gorau yn y tymor canolig, neu’r tymor hwy o leiaf, ffordd osgoi ar gyfer pentref Llanelen.
Well, as Nick Ramsay knows, this has been a problem for some 20 years or so and there is no simple solution to it. We are acutely aware of the problem and have spent some time investigating potential solutions. He will know that the existing bridge is a grade II listed structure, that it is next to a flood plain, and there is no simple engineering solution that would respect its existing characteristics or do the job within the existing footprint. We are doing what we can, working with local landowners, to maintain the land, to drain the ditches, and the delays when the road is closed are now becoming significantly lessened. There have been occasions when the road has been closed for a week, and I believe the most recent closure was for an hour. So, we are doing a lot to try and mitigate; we can't simply solve it. We are, of course, investing in rail, and the Chepstow service, which currently only gets two trains an hour, will increase capacity from mid December to four trains an hour. So, that's another intervention we're making to help with the situation. But if there's an easy and simple solution the Member has in mind we haven't considered, we'd certainly be willing to look at it.
Wel, fel y gŵyr Nick Ramsay, mae hon wedi bod yn broblem ers tua 20 mlynedd, ac nid oes ateb syml iddi. Rydym yn ymwybodol iawn o'r broblem ac wedi treulio peth amser yn ymchwilio i atebion posibl. Bydd yn ymwybodol fod y bont bresennol yn strwythur rhestredig gradd II, ei bod yn ymyl gorlifdir, ac nad oes ateb peirianyddol syml a fyddai'n parchu ei nodweddion presennol neu'n datrys y broblem o fewn yr ôl troed presennol. Rydym yn gwneud yr hyn a allwn, gan weithio gyda pherchnogion tir lleol, i gynnal a chadw'r tir, i ddraenio'r ffosydd, ac mae'r oedi pan fydd y ffordd ar gau yn mynd yn llai o lawer bellach. Bu achlysuron pan fu'r ffordd ar gau am wythnos, a chredaf mai am awr y bu ar gau y tro diwethaf. Felly rydym yn gwneud llawer i geisio lliniaru’r sefyllfa; nid oes ffordd hawdd o’i datrys. Wrth gwrs, rydym yn buddsoddi mewn rheilffyrdd, a bydd gwasanaeth Cas-gwent, sydd ond yn cael dau drên yr awr ar hyn o bryd, yn cynyddu o ran capasiti o ganol mis Rhagfyr ymlaen, i bedwar trên yr awr. Felly, mae honno’n enghraifft arall o ymyrraeth gennym i helpu gyda'r sefyllfa. Ond os oes gan yr Aelod ateb hawdd a syml mewn golwg nad ydym wedi'i ystyried, byddem yn sicr yn barod i edrych arno.
Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Rhun ap Iorwerth.
Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Rhun ap Iorwerth.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd. One of the last things that Alun Cairns did as Secretary of State for Wales—or the Secretary of State for the west of England, as he had become to be known by many—was to establish the western gateway. Where is the western gateway a gateway to, and for whom?
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Lywydd. Un o'r pethau olaf a wnaeth Alun Cairns fel Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru—neu Ysgrifennydd Gwladol gorllewin Lloegr, fel roedd llawer yn ei adnabod—oedd sefydlu porth y gorllewin. Porth i ble yw porth y gorllewin, ac i bwy?
Well can I first say that, obviously, Alun Cairns has resigned in the last couple of hours, and I think that was the right thing to do in the circumstances? Clearly, our Government and his Government have had significant differences over a number of issues. But I should say that both Ken Skates and myself have had cordial and professional relationships with Alun Cairns, and, especially on the city deals, we've worked well together, and we certainly wouldn't have wished his time as a Minister to come to an end in this way.
On the question directly posed, it's most unfortunate that the Severnside collaboration has been called 'west Britain' in some of its social media activity. Certainly, that's not designed to get it off to a good start. We are keen, obviously, to look at a forum that can collaborate across the border, just as we do in north Wales with the Mersey Dee Alliance. However, we are sceptical about the intentions behind the setting up of this alliance and giving it, certainly, any institutional character because we fear the UK Government are using this as a Trojan horse to undermine the Welsh Government through whatever comes of the shared prosperity fund. We look forward to seeing if anything comes of the shared prosperity fund. But we are approaching it, I think, with scepticism. The chair that's been appointed, Katherine Bennett, is a very good person and we certainly wouldn't wish to undermine her in any way. This is not a joint appointment, but we certainly would like a conversation with her about how she feels this alliance goes forward, with our concerns in mind.
Wel, a gaf fi ddweud yn gyntaf, yn amlwg, fod Alun Cairns wedi ymddiswyddo yn ystod yr ychydig oriau diwethaf, a chredaf mai dyna oedd y peth iawn i'w wneud o dan yr amgylchiadau? Yn amlwg, mae ein Llywodraeth a'i Lywodraeth yntau wedi anghytuno ynghylch nifer o faterion. Ond dylwn ddweud bod Ken Skates a minnau wedi cael perthynas dwymgalon a phroffesiynol gydag Alun Cairns, ac yn enwedig ar y bargeinion dinesig, rydym wedi cydweithio'n dda gyda’n gilydd, ac yn sicr, ni fyddem wedi dymuno i'w amser fel Gweinidog ddod i ben fel hyn.
O ran y cwestiwn uniongyrchol, mae'n anffodus iawn fod cydweithrediad Glannau Hafren wedi cael ei alw'n 'orllewin Prydain' yn rhywfaint o'i weithgarwch ar y cyfryngau cymdeithasol. Yn sicr, nid dyna’r cynllun i sicrhau ei fod yn cael dechrau da. Rydym yn awyddus, yn amlwg, i edrych ar fforwm a all gydweithredu dros y ffin, fel y gwnawn yng ngogledd Cymru gyda Cynghrair Mersi a’r Ddyfrdwy. Fodd bynnag, rydym yn amheus ynghylch y bwriad y tu ôl i sefydlu'r gynghrair hon, ac yn sicr, ynghylch rhoi unrhyw nodweddion sefydliadol iddi gan ein bod yn ofni bod Llywodraeth y DU yn defnyddio hyn fel ceffyl pren Troea i danseilio Llywodraeth Cymru drwy beth bynnag a ddaw o'r gronfa ffyniant gyffredin. Rydym yn edrych ymlaen at weld a ddaw unrhyw beth o'r gronfa ffyniant gyffredin. Ond credaf ein bod yn ymdrin â hyn gyda pheth amheuaeth. Mae'r cadeirydd a benodwyd, Katherine Bennett, yn unigolyn da iawn ac yn sicr ni fyddem yn dymuno ei thanseilio mewn unrhyw ffordd. Nid apwyntiad ar y cyd mo hwn, ond yn sicr, hoffem gael sgwrs gyda hi ynglŷn â sut y mae'n teimlo y dylai'r gynghrair hon weithredu, gyda'n pryderon mewn golwg.
Well, Welsh Government, of course, is hailed as a partner in the western gateway project. Within minutes of the launching of the project, the chair that you mentioned referred to 'the powerhouse of the west of Britain'. How do you think that rebranding of Wales as the west of Britain or a part of the west of Britain helps with the work that needs to be done to build a genuine Welsh economy that can then work in genuine partnership with our friends to the east?
Wel, mae Llywodraeth Cymru, wrth gwrs, yn cael ei galw'n bartner ym mhrosiect porth y gorllewin. O fewn munudau i lansio'r prosiect, cyfeiriodd y cadeirydd y sonioch chi amdani at 'bwerdy gorllewin Prydain'. Sut y credwch fod ail-frandio Cymru yn orllewin Prydain neu ran o orllewin Prydain yn helpu gyda'r gwaith sydd angen ei wneud i adeiladu economi go iawn yng Nghymru a all weithio wedyn mewn partneriaeth go iawn â'n ffrindiau i'r dwyrain?
Well, I happened to speak to Katherine Bennett on the morning that tweet went out and she made clear to me that those were not her words. I suspect the hyperactive office of the aforementioned previous Secretary of State may have had a hand in that, but, I think, putting that to one side, there remains an economic geography there that we want to explore and exploit, but we are a devolved Government, we have a boundary to respect, and we certainly are not going to be naive about the political agendas at play in Westminster around this, but we do want what's best for the people of that part of Wales and our closest neighbours.
Wel, digwyddais siarad â Katherine Bennett ar y bore yr anfonwyd y trydariad hwnnw a dywedodd yn glir wrthyf nad ei geiriau hi oeddent. Rwy’n amau efallai fod gan swyddfa orfywiog y cyn Ysgrifennydd Gwladol y soniwyd amdano gynnau rywbeth i’w wneud â hyn, ond gan roi hynny o'r neilltu am funud, credaf fod daearyddiaeth economaidd yno rydym am ei harchwilio a manteisio arni, ond rydym yn Llywodraeth ddatganoledig, mae gennym ffin i'w pharchu, ac yn sicr, nid ydym am fod yn naïf ynghylch yr agendâu gwleidyddol sydd ar waith yn San Steffan mewn perthynas â hyn, ond rydym eisiau'r gorau i bobl yn y rhan honno o Gymru a'n cymdogion agosaf.
'We remain sceptical', I don't think is good enough when it comes to some of the messaging that I have certainly heard and read around the western gateway project. What we want to see is a Welsh Government that genuinely builds a Welsh economy, and I fear that Welsh Government has been taken for a ride by the Wales Office under Alun Cairns. The Welsh Government has been far too keen, I think, to hang on to the coat-tails of Alun Cairns as Secretary of State for Wales. We know that Welsh Government agreed on the nod to the renaming of the second Severn crossing as the Prince of Wales Bridge, which we know went down like a lead balloon with people in Wales. We know that Welsh Government did have an opportunity to have its say on that issue and decided, for whatever reason, not to, and I fear that when it comes to the western gateway, as well as projects across the border between the north-east of Wales and the north-west of England, that Welsh Government isn't taking its role seriously enough in creating a genuinely strong Welsh economy.
I am a big supporter of cross-border working. Cross-border working works to the mutual benefit of neighbouring countries and regions globally. That is no different for us in Wales. But will the Minister see that as long as we have an impression of a Welsh Government that is going with a begging bowl to those partnership meetings, that doesn't seem to want to be there as a genuine partner, Wales will be undersold by this Welsh Government?
Ni chredaf fod 'rydym yn parhau i fod yn amheus’ yn ddigon da o ran rhai o'r negeseuon rwy’n sicr wedi'u clywed a'u darllen ynglŷn â phrosiect porth y gorllewin. Yr hyn rydym am ei weld yw Llywodraeth Cymru sydd o ddifrif yn adeiladu economi Cymru, ac rwy'n ofni bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cael ei chamarwain gan Swyddfa Cymru o dan Alun Cairns. Credaf fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi bod yn llawer rhy awyddus i ddal ei gafael yng nghynffon côt Alun Cairns fel Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru. Gwyddom fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cytuno i ailenwi'r ail bont Hafren yn Bont Tywysog Cymru, a gwyddom na chroesawyd hynny o gwbl gan bobl Cymru. Gwyddom fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cael cyfle i ddweud ei dweud ar y mater hwnnw a’i bod wedi penderfynu peidio â gwneud hynny am ba reswm bynnag, ac rwy’n ofni, mewn perthynas â phorth y gorllewin, yn ogystal â phrosiectau dros y ffin rhwng gogledd-ddwyrain Cymru a gogledd-orllewin Lloegr, nad yw Llywodraeth Cymru o ddifrif ynglŷn â'i rôl yn creu economi Gymreig wirioneddol gryf.
Rwy'n cefnogi gweithio trawsffiniol yn fawr. Mae gweithio trawsffiniol yn gweithio er budd cyffredin gwledydd a rhanbarthau cyfagos ledled y byd. Nid yw hynny'n wahanol i ni yng Nghymru. Ond a wnaiff y Gweinidog weld, cyhyd â bod gennym ddarlun o Lywodraeth Cymru yn mynd gyda dysgl gardod i'r cyfarfodydd partneriaeth nad yw'n ymddangos ei bod am fod yno fel partner go iawn, y bydd Cymru yn cael ei thanwerthu gan y Llywodraeth hon?
Well, I think that's a little overexcited. I think I would struggle with—[Interruption.]
Wel, credaf fod hynny braidd yn orgynhyrfus. Credaf y buaswn yn cael trafferth gyda—[Torri ar draws.]
I'd like you to get a bit more excited about making use of the Welsh economy. Get excited about—
Hoffwn pe baech ychydig yn fwy cynhyrfus ynglŷn â gwneud defnydd o economi Cymru. Cynhyrfu am—
And I think I would struggle—. I would struggle—[Interruption.] With respect, you've asked your question. Your question is finished. I'm trying to answer it, if you will allow me to.
A chredaf y buaswn yn cael trafferth—. Buaswn yn cael trafferth—[Torri ar draws.] Gyda phob parch, rydych wedi gofyn eich cwestiwn. Mae eich cwestiwn wedi’i orffen. Rwy'n ceisio ei ateb, os caniatewch i mi wneud hynny.
Well, no, there was a snide remark. That's what I heard first.
Wel, na, cafwyd sylw coeglyd. Dyna a glywais gyntaf.
Well, with respect—
Wel, â phob parch—
Allow the Minister to carry on with answering your question.
Gadewch i'r Gweinidog barhau i ateb eich cwestiwn.
Rhun ap Iorwerth is offended I made a snide remark. He's accused us of having a begging-bowl attitude, so that's pretty snide, I would say, in respect, to that.
And in terms of Alun Cairns' coat-tails, I'd struggle to reach them, with respect. So, there's no subservient attitude here and I think it doesn't help a calm discussion about how we can advance the economic interests of south Wales to dress it up in such hysterical language.
As I've made clear, the term of 'west Britain' was certainly not ours and it wasn't, indeed, even the chair's, and I certainly would not—and I was clear in my earlier answer—endorse that. As I've said, we're not naive about the political agendas here at play. This was not a joint appointment. This is not something we are jointly setting up. The UK Government have taken this initiative. We'll watch it with interest. If it is a forum for sharing information, we'd be happy to be part of it. If it's any more than that, we will not.
Mae Rhun ap Iorwerth yn ddig am imi wneud sylw coeglyd. Mae wedi ein cyhuddo o fod ag agwedd dysgl gardod, felly mae hynny'n eithaf coeglyd, buaswn yn dweud, â phob parch.
Ac o ran cynffon côt Alun Cairns, buaswn yn cael trafferth ei chyrraedd, gyda phob parch. Felly, nid oes agwedd daeogaidd yma ac ni chredaf fod defnyddio iaith mor hysterig yn hybu trafodaeth gall ynglŷn â sut y gallwn hyrwyddo buddiannau economaidd de Cymru.
Fel y dywedais yn glir, yn sicr nid ein term ni oedd 'gorllewin Prydain’, na therm y cadeirydd yn wir, ac yn sicr, ni fuaswn—a dywedais yn glir yn fy ateb cynharach—yn cymeradwyo hynny. Fel y dywedais, nid ydym yn naïf ynghylch yr agendâu gwleidyddol sydd ar waith yma. Nid oedd hwn yn apwyntiad ar y cyd. Nid yw hyn yn rhywbeth rydym yn ei sefydlu ar y cyd. Llywodraeth y DU sy’n gyfrifol am y fenter hon. Byddwn yn ei gwylio â diddordeb. Os yw'n fforwm ar gyfer rhannu gwybodaeth, rydym yn fwy na pharod i fod yn rhan ohono. Os yw'n fwy na hynny, ni fyddwn yn gwneud hynny.
Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Russell George.
Conservative spokesperson, Russell George.
Diolch, Llywydd. Deputy Minister, has the timetable for the South East Wales Transport Commission slipped?
Diolch, Lywydd. Ddirprwy Weinidog, a yw'r amserlen ar gyfer Comisiwn Trafnidiaeth De-ddwyrain Cymru wedi llithro?
Not to my knowledge.
Nid hyd y gwn i.
Thank you. That's good to hear. In June of this year, Deputy Minister, your boss, the Minister, said to this Chamber that transport is an area where the Welsh Government has ambitious plans for the future. He said he expected an interim report for the South East Wales Transport Commission within six months. The Minister also said, and I'm quoting here:
'I've been very keen and clear in saying to the chair and to the public that if the commission is able to bring forward viable suggestions that can be delivered'
in the short term, within the next six-month period, to ease congestion on the M4, they should be done so without delay.
Since these statements back in June, can I ask a couple of questions? Can I ask why it has taken until October to establish the membership of the commission? And can I also ask: can you confirm that, by the end of this year, we will have the interim report, or will it just be an update? And can I ask, what appears to be kicking into the long grass—can you tell me if this interim report has been kicked into the long grass, or do you still anticipate the report to be delivered by the end of this year?
Diolch. Mae'n braf clywed hynny. Ym mis Mehefin eleni, dywedodd y Dirprwy Weinidog, eich bos, y Gweinidog, wrth y Siambr hon fod trafnidiaeth yn faes lle mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru gynlluniau uchelgeisiol ar gyfer y dyfodol. Dywedodd ei fod yn disgwyl adroddiad interim i Gomisiwn Trafnidiaeth De-ddwyrain Cymru o fewn chwe mis. Dywedodd y Gweinidog hefyd, ac rwy'n dyfynnu:
'rwyf wedi bod yn awyddus ac yn glir iawn wrth ddweud wrth y cadeirydd ac wrth y cyhoedd, os gall y comisiwn gyflwyno awgrymiadau ymarferol y gellir eu cyflwyno'
yn y tymor byr, o fewn y chwe mis nesaf, i liniaru tagfeydd ar yr M4, y dylid gwneud hynny heb oedi.
Ers y datganiadau hyn yn ôl ym mis Mehefin, a gaf fi ofyn ychydig o gwestiynau? A gaf fi ofyn pam ei bod wedi cymryd tan fis Hydref i sefydlu aelodaeth y comisiwn? Ac a gaf fi ofyn hefyd: a allwch gadarnhau y bydd gennym yr adroddiad interim erbyn diwedd eleni, neu ai diweddariad yn unig fydd hwn? Ac a gaf fi ofyn, ymddengys fod hyn wedi'i wthio i'r naill ochr—a allwch ddweud wrthyf a yw'r adroddiad interim hwn wedi'i wthio i'r naill ochr, neu a ydych yn dal i ragweld y bydd yr adroddiad yn cael ei gyflwyno erbyn diwedd eleni?
Both the First Minister and the economy Minister made it very clear to the chair of the commission that we expect to have early recommendations by Christmas, and that remains our expectation.
There has been some time taken to assemble a very high calibre panel of people. They've published their terms of reference and their way of working. I'm very encouraged that they are not going to be constrained, in the way that previous studies have, to simply look at road options, but will look at the full array of interventions, including behaviour change, to tackle the congestion and the car dependency in that part of Wales, and not simply the traditional approaches that have dominated this debate for many years.
So, I fully expect an exciting range of proposals, with some initial thoughts by the end of this year.
Mae'r Prif Weinidog a Gweinidog yr economi wedi dweud yn glir iawn wrth gadeirydd y comisiwn ein bod yn disgwyl cael argymhellion cynnar erbyn y Nadolig, a dyna yw ein disgwyliad o hyd.
Cymerwyd peth amser i gynnull panel o bobl uchel eu parch. Maent wedi cyhoeddi eu cylch gorchwyl a'u ffordd o weithio. Mae'n galonogol iawn na fyddant wedi'u cyfyngu, fel a ddigwyddodd gydag astudiaethau blaenorol, i edrych ar opsiynau ffyrdd yn unig, ond byddant yn edrych ar yr ystod lawn o ymyriadau, gan gynnwys newid ymddygiad, i fynd i'r afael â thagfeydd a'r ddibyniaeth ar geir yn y rhan honno o Gymru, yn hytrach na'r dulliau traddodiadol sydd wedi dominyddu'r ddadl hon ers blynyddoedd lawer.
Felly, rwy'n disgwyl ystod gyffrous o gynigion, gyda rhai syniadau cychwynnol erbyn diwedd eleni.
Thank you, Minister. You'll also be aware that the volume of traffic on the M4 is increasing day by day. We've had a new poll, which shows that almost twice as many people in Wales now believe that the M4 relief road should be built, contradicting the view of the First Minister and the Welsh Government. But can you confirm whether or not the option of building the M4 relief road is, or isn't, within the scope of the South East Wales Transport Commission's terms of reference? And, if so, and they recommend to you to go ahead and build it, will you do that or will you reject the findings of this independent commission?
Diolch, Weinidog. Fe fyddwch hefyd yn ymwybodol fod traffig ar yr M4 yn cynyddu'n ddyddiol. Rydym wedi cael arolwg barn newydd, sy'n dangos bod bron i ddwywaith cymaint o bobl yng Nghymru bellach yn credu y dylid adeiladu ffordd liniaru'r M4, yn groes i farn y Prif Weinidog a Llywodraeth Cymru. Ond a allwch gadarnhau p'un a yw'r opsiwn o adeiladu ffordd liniaru'r M4 o fewn cwmpas cylch gorchwyl Comisiwn Trafnidiaeth De-ddwyrain Cymru ai peidio? Ac os felly, ac os ydynt yn argymell eich bod yn ei hadeiladu, a fyddwch yn gwneud hynny neu a fyddwch yn gwrthod canfyddiadau'r comisiwn annibynnol hwn?
No. Having gone through a public inquiry that looked at the black route, there'd be absolutely no point in setting up another inquiry to go and re-examine the exact same option. So, that is not an option that the commission is looking at. They're looking at alternatives, which we believe can be delivered quicker and cheaper to better effect than the road that was previously examined.
Russell George mentions a poll that was published yesterday, which—. Well, I'd say two things about that: first of all, the First Minister made his decision not because it was popular but because it was the right thing to do, because the inspector's report did not take proper recognition of the climate emergency nor the collapse in biodiversity. That was a principled decision the Government took, not one chasing popular headlines. And the poll, really, isn't worth a great deal, when you think about the way it was framed. Had the question been framed to say to people, 'Would you be willing for your hospital and your school to be cancelled for a project that's more than doubled in budget?', it might have produced a different result.
Na. Ar ôl cynnal ymchwiliad cyhoeddus a edrychodd ar y llwybr du, ni fyddai unrhyw bwrpas sefydlu ymchwiliad arall i fynd i ailedrych ar yr un opsiwn yn union. Felly, nid yw hwnnw'n opsiwn y mae'r comisiwn yn ei ystyried. Maent yn edrych ar opsiynau eraill y credwn y gellir eu cyflwyno'n gyflymach ac yn rhatach ac a fyddai'n cael gwell effaith na'r ffordd a archwiliwyd eisoes.
Mae Russell George yn sôn am arolwg barn a gyhoeddwyd ddoe, sydd—. Wel, buaswn yn dweud dau beth am hynny: yn gyntaf oll, gwnaeth y Prif Weinidog ei benderfyniad nid oherwydd ei fod yn boblogaidd ond oherwydd mai dyna'r peth iawn i'w wneud, oherwydd nid oedd adroddiad yr arolygydd yn rhoi cydnabyddiaeth briodol i'r argyfwng hinsawdd na'r effaith ddinistriol ar fioamrywiaeth. Roedd hwnnw'n benderfyniad egwyddorol a wnaed gan y Llywodraeth, nid un i geisio bod yn boblogaidd. Ac nid yw'r arolwg barn yn werth llawer, mewn gwirionedd, pan feddyliwch am y ffordd y cafodd ei ofyn. Pe bai'r cwestiwn wedi'i ffurfio i ofyn i bobl, 'A fyddech yn fodlon i'ch ysbyty a'ch ysgol gael eu canslo ar gyfer prosiect y mae ei gyllideb wedi mwy na dyblu?', efallai y byddai wedi cynhyrchu canlyniad gwahanol.
Llefarydd Plaid Brexit, David Rowlands.
Brexit Party spokesperson, David Rowlands.
Diolch, Llywydd. Deputy Minister, the proposal to make Newport the focus for economic growth has been welcomed by all in South Wales East, and we congratulate the Welsh Government on its announcement. However, I understand there has been criticism of this move by Cardiff city council, who argue that this would take jobs and investment out of Wales and undermine Cardiff's role as the economic driver of the Welsh economy.
Does the Minister not agree with me that their argument goes against the regional development plan and the setting up of strategic development plans that actually encompass the Cardiff capital region?
Diolch, Lywydd. Ddirprwy Weinidog, mae’r cynnig i wneud Casnewydd yn ganolbwynt ar gyfer twf economaidd wedi'i groesawu gan bawb yn Nwyrain De Cymru, ac rydym yn llongyfarch Llywodraeth Cymru ar ei chyhoeddiad. Fodd bynnag, deallaf fod cyngor dinas Caerdydd wedi beirniadu’r cynnig hwn, gan ddadlau y byddai'n mynd â swyddi a buddsoddiad allan o Gymru ac yn tanseilio rôl Caerdydd fel sbardun economaidd i economi Cymru.
Onid yw'r Gweinidog yn cytuno â mi fod eu dadl yn mynd yn groes i'r cynllun datblygu rhanbarthol a'r gwaith o sefydlu cynlluniau datblygu strategol sy'n cwmpasu prifddinas-ranbarth Caerdydd mewn gwirionedd?
Well, those are probably comments best directed to the leader of Cardiff council. The national development framework is out to consultation, and we look forward to considering all representations as part of that.
Wel, mae'n debyg mai at arweinydd cyngor Caerdydd y dylid cyfeirio'r sylwadau hynny. Mae ymgynghoriad ar waith ar y fframwaith datblygu cenedlaethol, ac edrychwn ymlaen at ystyried pob sylw fel rhan o hynny.
Well, I thank the Deputy Minister for that brief answer, but, Deputy Minister, the draft national framework encompasses local development plans, strategic development plans, developments of national significance, which all sit alongside 'Planning Policy Wales', and all supposedly based on a regional structure. Given this desire to move to regional centres of governance, could the Welsh Government give consideration to having just five regional centres of governance, perhaps based on the Welsh Assembly electoral regions, rather than the somewhat haphazard mix of local authorities-based economic regions that now exist or are proposed? These larger regions would have larger budgets, which would better facilitate strategic planning, particularly for infrastructure projects, thus underpinning the Government's strategic development plan for Wales.
Wel, diolch i'r Dirprwy Weinidog am ei ateb cryno, ond Ddirprwy Weinidog, mae'r fframwaith cenedlaethol drafft yn cwmpasu cynlluniau datblygu lleol, cynlluniau datblygu strategol, datblygiadau o arwyddocâd cenedlaethol, pob un ohonynt yn sefyll ochr yn ochr â 'Pholisi Cynllunio Cymru', a phob un yn seiliedig yn ôl y sôn ar strwythur rhanbarthol. O ystyried yr awydd hwn i newid i ganolfannau llywodraethu rhanbarthol, a allai Llywodraeth Cymru ystyried cael pum canolfan lywodraethu ranbarthol yn unig, yn seiliedig, efallai, ar ranbarthau etholiadol Cynulliad Cymru, yn hytrach na'r gymysgedd ychydig yn ddi-drefn o ranbarthau economaidd sy'n seiliedig ar awdurdodau lleol sydd bellach yn bodoli neu'n cael eu hargymell? Byddai gan y rhanbarthau mwy hyn gyllidebau mwy, a fyddai'n hwyluso cynllunio strategol yn well, yn enwedig ar gyfer prosiectau seilwaith, ac felly'n sail i gynllun datblygu strategol y Llywodraeth ar gyfer Cymru.
If I've understood the Member's point correctly, the regions that exist are based, certainly in the south-east, on the Cardiff capital region, which is a city region that's now been in development for some years and has the buy-in of the local authorities. You can certainly make arguments about where the line should be drawn between the mid Wales region and the Swansea bay city region, but you can always have these judgments about which bit should be in which and so on. We are willing to keep an open mind. If there's support within the local authorities for recalibrating those, we'd look at it, of course. But we have a small capacity at play here between the local authorities and the Welsh Government, and we need to pick an optimum number where we can get some gravity together to be able to marshal our resources properly to great effect, and the more we chop them around, the more difficult it becomes to get the results we're looking for.
Os wyf wedi deall pwynt yr Aelod yn iawn, mae'r rhanbarthau sy'n bodoli yn seiliedig, yn sicr yn y de-ddwyrain, ar brifddinas-ranbarth Caerdydd, dinas-ranbarth a fu'n cael ei ddatblygu ers rhai blynyddoedd bellach ac sydd wedi cael cefnogaeth yr awdurdodau lleol. Yn sicr, gallwch ddadlau ynglŷn â ble y dylid tynnu’r llinell rhwng rhanbarth canolbarth Cymru a dinas-ranbarth bae Abertawe, ond gallwch bob amser gael y safbwyntiau hyn ynglŷn â pha ddarn a ddylai fod ym mha un ac yn y blaen. Rydym yn barod i gadw meddwl agored. Os oes cefnogaeth ymhlith yr awdurdodau lleol i'w hailraddnodi, byddem yn ystyried hynny, wrth gwrs. Ond ychydig o gapasiti sydd gennym i chwarae ag ef yma rhwng yr awdurdodau lleol a Llywodraeth Cymru, ac mae angen inni ddewis y nifer gorau posibl fel y gallwn sicrhau bod gennym allu i reoli ein hadnoddau mewn modd priodol ac effeithiol, a pho fwyaf y byddwn yn eu hollti, yr anoddaf fydd cael y canlyniadau rydym yn edrych amdanynt.
3. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am seilwaith cysylltedd digidol ar gyfer cymoedd de Cymru? OAQ54618
3. Will the Minister make a statement on digital connectivity infrastructure for the south Wales valleys? OAQ54618
Yes. The south Wales Valleys have seen significant investment in digital connectivity infrastructure, with the Superfast Cymru scheme investing over £66.9 million to provide fast fibre broadband access to over 244,600 premises.
Gwnaf. Mae cymoedd de Cymru wedi cael buddsoddiad sylweddol mewn seilwaith cysylltedd digidol, gyda chynllun Cyflymu Cymru yn buddsoddi dros £66.9 miliwn i ddarparu mynediad at fand eang ffeibr cyflym i dros 244,600 o adeiladau.
Thank you for that answer, Deputy Minister. I know, of course, this is a largely non-devolved area of work, but I do recognise that, over the last few years, because of the failure of the UK Government to provide sufficient investment where the commercial market won't provide this vital service for our communities and business, the Welsh Government has stepped into this space and invested in high-quality broadband infrastructure, improving digital connectivity through the Superfast Cymru programme, as you've already highlighted—something I know that has a very positive impact in my constituency. So, can I ask the Deputy Minister: what work are you doing with Welsh Government colleagues to press the UK Government to follow your lead and to provide funding for high-quality digital infrastructure that can further support areas like Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney to improve their productivity and their competitiveness as an area for investment?
Diolch am eich ateb, Ddirprwy Weinidog. Gwn, wrth gwrs, fod hwn yn faes gwaith sydd heb ei ddatganoli i raddau helaeth, ond rwy'n cydnabod, dros yr ychydig flynyddoedd diwethaf, oherwydd methiant Llywodraeth y DU i ddarparu buddsoddiad digonol lle na fydd y farchnad fasnachol yn darparu'r gwasanaeth hanfodol hwn i’n cymunedau a’n busnesau, fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi camu i’r adwy ac wedi buddsoddi mewn seilwaith band eang o ansawdd uchel, gan wella cysylltedd digidol drwy raglen Cyflymu Cymru, fel y nodoch chi eisoes—rhywbeth rwy'n ymwybodol ei fod yn cael effaith gadarnhaol iawn yn fy etholaeth. Felly, a gaf fi ofyn i'r Dirprwy Weinidog: pa waith rydych yn ei wneud gyda'ch cyd-Weinidogion yn Llywodraeth Cymru i bwyso ar Lywodraeth y DU i ddilyn eich arweiniad ac i ddarparu cyllid ar gyfer seilwaith digidol o ansawdd uchel a all roi rhagor o gefnogaeth i ardaloedd fel Merthyr Tudful a Rhymni wella eu cynhyrchiant a'u cystadleurwydd fel ardal i fuddsoddi ynddi?
Thank you for that question. Dawn Bowden is absolutely right that this is a non-devolved area, but, because of market failure and the inactivity of the UK Government, the Welsh Government has been forced to step in here to divert significant resources from devolved services to address this clear failing by the UK Government to act. We have achieved significant results: a 95 per cent coverage of premises in Wales of superfast broadband. Now, we genuinely believe that fast internet access is now an essential modern service. The UK Government has a universal service obligation for postal services, so, if you post a letter to a farm track, isolated, it still—even though it may not be profitable, there's an obligation on the Royal Mail to deliver that letter. We think there should be a similar universal service obligation on telecommunications providers to provide modern, fast broadband.
The UK Government's come up with what it calls a universal service obligation, which is that in name only, I'm afraid. It's a right to request up to 10 Mbps, where the cost of building is no more than £3,400, from March 2020. So, this will still leave large parts of rural Wales without a functioning broadband service. So, that clearly is not worth the paper it is written on. We are looking to see what we can do, and we have a statement and debate coming up shortly on what more the Welsh Government can do to reach the areas that we've yet to reach.
There is some progress in terms of other technologies, notably 4G and 5G, which are able also to deliver internet services. I met with the telecommunications companies recently, who I'm very pleased to say have come up with their own plan to achieve a step change in provision of 4G coverage in Wales by 2025, to increase coverage from 58 per cent to 86 per cent, without intervention by Ofcom. That, I must say, is very welcome, and we are working with them to see what we can do to help maximise that beyond 86 per cent if possible. We are worried that this will only be achieved by 2025, which still leaves a very long gap.
We are also working as part of bidding for 5G trials in rural areas. Simon Gibson is leading a task and finish group for the Welsh Government looking at 5G and, as part of that, has put in a bid to the DCMS 5G trials for test beds, and that is about to be considered by them, which would see a focus particularly on Blaenau Gwent, the Heads of the Valleys and Monmouthshire, which was the result of the £250,000 piece of work that the Government has supported. So, I think that there are things that we are doing, despite the fact that this is non-devolved. But, really, we need the UK Government to step up to the plate here PDQ.
Diolch am eich cwestiwn. Mae Dawn Bowden yn llygad ei lle fod hwn yn faes heb ei ddatganoli, ond oherwydd methiant y farchnad ac anweithgarwch Llywodraeth y DU, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gorfod camu i mewn yma i ddargyfeirio adnoddau sylweddol oddi wrth wasanaethau datganoledig i fynd i’r afael â’r methiant amlwg hwn gan Lywodraeth y DU i weithredu. Rydym wedi cyflawni canlyniadau sylweddol: band eang cyflym iawn mewn 95 y cant o safleoedd yng Nghymru. Nawr, rydym yn credu o ddifrif fod mynediad cyflym at y rhyngrwyd bellach yn wasanaeth modern hanfodol. Mae gan Lywodraeth y DU rwymedigaeth gwasanaeth cyffredinol ar gyfer gwasanaethau post, felly, os ydych yn postio llythyr at drac fferm, anghysbell, mae'n dal i fod—er efallai nad yw'n broffidiol, mae gan y Post Brenhinol rwymedigaeth i ddosbarthu'r llythyr hwnnw. Credwn y dylid cael rhwymedigaeth gwasanaeth cyffredinol debyg i ddarparwyr telathrebu ddarparu band eang modern, cyflym.
Mae Llywodraeth y DU yn cynnig yr hyn y mae'n ei alw'n rhwymedigaeth gwasanaeth cyffredinol, ac mae hynny mewn enw yn unig, mae arnaf ofn. Ceir hawl i ofyn am hyd at 10 Mbps, lle nad yw'r gost adeiladu yn fwy na £3,400, o fis Mawrth 2020. Felly, bydd hyn yn dal i adael rhannau helaeth o gefn gwlad Cymru heb wasanaeth band eang sy'n gweithio. Felly yn amlwg, nid yw hynny'n werth y papur y mae wedi'i ysgrifennu arno. Rydym yn edrych i weld beth y gallwn ei wneud, ac mae gennym ddatganiad a dadl cyn bo hir ar beth arall y gall Llywodraeth Cymru ei wneud i gyrraedd yr ardaloedd nad ydym wedi eu cyrraedd eto.
Ceir rhywfaint o gynnydd o ran technolegau eraill, yn enwedig 4G a 5G, sydd hefyd yn gallu darparu gwasanaethau rhyngrwyd. Cyfarfûm â'r cwmnïau telathrebu yn ddiweddar, ac rwy'n falch iawn o ddweud eu bod wedi llunio eu cynllun eu hunain i sicrhau newid sylweddol o ran darpariaeth 4G yng Nghymru erbyn 2025, er mwyn cynyddu'r cwmpas o 58 y cant i 86 y cant, heb ymyrraeth gan Ofcom. Rhaid i mi ddweud bod hynny'n galonogol iawn, ac rydym yn gweithio gyda hwy i weld beth y gallwn ei wneud i helpu i gynyddu hynny y tu hwnt i 86 y cant os oes modd. Rydym yn bryderus na fydd hyn yn cael ei gyflawni tan 2025, sy'n dal i adael bwlch hir iawn.
Rydym hefyd yn gweithio fel rhan o'r broses o gynnig am dreialon 5G mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Mae Simon Gibson yn arwain grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen sy’n edrych ar 5G ar gyfer Llywodraeth Cymru, ac fel rhan o hynny, mae wedi cyflwyno cais i dreialon 5G yr Adran dros Ddiwylliant, y Cyfryngau a Chwaraeon ar gyfer ardaloedd prawf, ac maent ar fin ei ystyried, cais a fyddai’n arwain at ffocws arbennig ar Flaenau Gwent, Blaenau'r Cymoedd a sir Fynwy, sef canlyniad gwaith gwerth £250,000 y mae'r Llywodraeth wedi'i gefnogi. Felly, credaf ein bod yn gwneud rhai pethau, er nad yw hyn yn fater wedi'i ddatganoli. Ond mewn gwirionedd, mae angen i Lywodraeth y DU ysgwyddo'i chyfrifoldeb am hyn ar unwaith.
Minister, last month, the Federation of Small Businesses produced a report on how broadband and mobile connectivity hinders small businesses in south-east Wales. With regard to Wales, they point out that mobile phones are increasingly becoming a key element of connectivity for small business owners. In areas where superfast broadband is not available, there are disproportionately high numbers of small firms that say that they use their mobile phones for internet banking and to interact with customers and suppliers at the same time. Minister, what action will you take to extend broadband coverage to areas that are currently hard to reach, such as parts of the south-east Wales Valleys? Thank you.
Weinidog, y mis diwethaf, cynhyrchodd y Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach adroddiad ar sut y mae cysylltedd band eang a ffonau symudol yn rhwystro busnesau bach yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru. Wrth drafod Cymru, maent yn tynnu sylw at y ffaith bod ffonau symudol yn dod yn elfen fwyfwy allweddol o gysylltedd i berchnogion busnesau bach. Mewn ardaloedd lle nad oes band eang cyflym iawn ar gael, mae niferoedd anghymesur o uchel o gwmnïau bach yn dweud eu bod yn defnyddio eu ffonau symudol ar gyfer bancio dros y rhyngrwyd ac i ryngweithio â chwsmeriaid a chyflenwyr ar yr un pryd. Weinidog, pa gamau y byddwch yn eu cymryd i ymestyn cyrhaeddiad band eang i ardaloedd sy'n anodd eu cyrraedd ar hyn o bryd, megis rhannau o Gymoedd de-ddwyrain Cymru? Diolch.
Well, with respect to Mohammad Asghar, I have just answered that question. I would say to him that the UK Government—regardless of party, the UK Government has the lead role to play here. And, since his party has been in Government, we are falling woefully behind. We've stepped in where we shouldn't to provide this service. It is now time that the Government acts.
Wel, gyda phob parch i Mohammad Asghar, rwyf newydd ateb y cwestiwn hwnnw. Buaswn yn dweud wrtho mai Llywodraeth y DU—waeth beth fo'i phlaid, Llywodraeth y DU sydd â'r rôl arweiniol i'w chwarae yma. Ac ers i'w blaid ddod i rym, rydym ar ei hôl hi'n druenus. Rydym wedi camu i'r adwy lle na ddylem orfod gwneud hynny i ddarparu'r gwasanaeth hwn. Mae'n bryd bellach i'r Llywodraeth weithredu.
4. Sut y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn cefnogi datblygu economaidd yng Ngogledd Cymru? OAQ54626
4. How is the Welsh Government supporting economic development in North Wales? OAQ54626
In the last year, the Development Bank of Wales has supported 109 businesses in north Wales, with a total of £40 million of investment in the region since 2016. Business Wales has helped more than 6,000 businesses and entrepreneurs generate £30 million of investment, £16 million in exports and nearly 3,000 new jobs.
Yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, mae Banc Datblygu Cymru wedi cefnogi 109 o fusnesau yng ngogledd Cymru, gyda chyfanswm o £40 miliwn o fuddsoddiad yn y rhanbarth ers 2016. Mae Busnes Cymru wedi helpu mwy na 6,000 o fusnesau ac entrepreneuriaid i gynhyrchu £30 miliwn o fuddsoddiad, £16 miliwn mewn allforion a bron i 3,000 o swyddi newydd.
On 28 October, the Minister for Economy and Transport issued a written statement on the north Wales metro. Within that, much of the content was actually taken from the North Wales Economic Ambition Board's growth vision and growth bid documents—from integrated travel zones to the Wrexham to Bidston route to road and rail infrastructure. Heads of terms on the growth deal were due for agreement by the end of February, then deferred to July, then to October or November, and, once agreed, we understand that it will take four to six months to finalise the business case ahead of any spades in the ground.
However, yesterday, our local paper reported that representatives of the North Wales Economic Ambition Board joined the Welsh and UK Governments to sign the heads of terms and agree on the seven programmes that will form the deal from 2020 onwards, and the chair of the board said:
'Our next steps will be to begin implementing the priority projects and leverage funding from the private sector in key areas',
expected to reach a total investment of £1 billion. Why has the Welsh Government not shared this fantastic progress with us after all these months of delay, when it has been raised time and time again here? And how will the Welsh Government ensure that we will now be briefed on those priority programmes as they go forward, when they're likely to begin, and how they will be delivered?
Ar 28 Hydref, cyhoeddodd Gweinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth ddatganiad ysgrifenedig ar fetro gogledd Cymru. Roedd llawer o gynnwys y datganiad hwnnw wedi'i gymryd o ddogfennau gweledigaeth twf a chais twf Bwrdd Uchelgais Economaidd Gogledd Cymru—o barthau teithio integredig i'r llwybr rhwng Wrecsam a Bidston i'r seilwaith ffyrdd a rheilffyrdd. Roedd disgwyl i benawdau'r telerau ar y fargen twf gael eu cytuno erbyn diwedd mis Chwefror, yna cawsant eu gohirio tan fis Gorffennaf, yna tan fis Hydref neu fis Tachwedd, ac ar ôl iddynt gael eu cytuno, deallwn y bydd yn cymryd pedwar i chwe mis i gwblhau'r achos busnes cyn rhoi unrhyw rawiau yn y ddaear.
Fodd bynnag, ddoe, nododd ein papur lleol fod cynrychiolwyr Bwrdd Uchelgais Economaidd Gogledd Cymru wedi ymuno â Llywodraeth Cymru a Llywodraeth y DU i arwyddo penawdau'r telerau a chytuno ar y saith rhaglen a fydd yn ffurfio’r fargen o 2020 ymlaen, a dywedodd cadeirydd y bwrdd:
'Ein camau nesaf fydd dechrau gwaith ar y prosiectau â blaenoriaeth a cheisio cyllid gan y sector preifat mewn meysydd allweddol',
y disgwylir iddo ddod i gyfanswm o £1 biliwn o fuddsoddiad. Pam nad yw Llywodraeth Cymru wedi rhannu’r cynnydd gwych hwn gyda ni wedi'r holl fisoedd hyn o oedi, o gofio bod hyn wedi'i godi yma dro ar ôl tro? A sut y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn sicrhau y byddwn yn cael ein briffio ar y rhaglenni blaenoriaeth hynny wrth iddynt fynd rhagddynt, pryd fyddant yn debygol o ddechrau, a sut y cânt eu cyflwyno?
I'm not entirely sure what to make of that question, really. The delay in the signing of the North Wales Economic Ambition Board was a result of delays by the UK Government. He then seemed to criticise us for adopting policies that the north Wales ambition board had advocated in its plan. He normally criticises us for not collaborating sufficiently with the North Wales Economic Ambition Board, so I'm not entirely sure of the point he was trying to get at there.
We now have a way forward with the ambition board, and it's for them to work as a region. The whole point of these city regions is that leadership needs to come locally. It's for the local authorities working together to come up with a plan to satisfy the Welsh Government and the UK Government that they have robust plans in place that can be delivered on time and on budget, and then we will release the funds. It's not all the time to come complaining to the Welsh Government that they expect us to take the lead. This is the whole point of regional economic development: it's led by the region, and we work closely with them to do that. We co-produce that with them through our new regional economic approach, and the chief regional officer for north Wales is intimately involved with the board to do what we can. But this is a partnership and both partners have to act.
Nid wyf yn hollol siŵr sut i ymateb i'r cwestiwn hwnnw, a dweud y gwir. Roedd yr oedi wrth arwyddo gyda Bwrdd Uchelgais Economaidd Gogledd Cymru yn ganlyniad i oedi gan Lywodraeth y DU. Ymddengys ei fod wedyn yn ein beirniadu am fabwysiadu polisïau roedd bwrdd uchelgais gogledd Cymru wedi'u hyrwyddo yn ei gynllun. Mae fel arfer yn ein beirniadu am beidio â chydweithredu'n ddigonol â Bwrdd Uchelgais Economaidd Gogledd Cymru, felly nid wyf yn hollol siŵr beth oedd y pwynt y ceisiai ei wneud.
Bellach, mae gennym ffordd ymlaen gyda'r bwrdd uchelgais, a mater iddynt hwy yw gweithio fel rhanbarth. Holl bwynt y dinas-ranbarthau hyn yw bod angen i'r arweinyddiaeth fod yn lleol. Mater i'r awdurdodau lleol, gan weithio gyda'i gilydd, yw llunio cynllun i fodloni Llywodraeth Cymru a Llywodraeth y DU fod ganddynt gynlluniau cadarn ar waith y gellir eu cyflawni ar amser ac o fewn y gyllideb, ac yna byddwn yn darparu'r arian. Nid dod i gwyno i Lywodraeth Cymru drwy'r amser eu bod yn disgwyl inni gymryd yr awenau. Dyma holl bwynt datblygu economaidd rhanbarthol: caiff ei arwain gan y rhanbarth, ac rydym yn gweithio'n agos gyda hwy i wneud hynny. Rydym yn cydgynhyrchu hynny gyda hwy drwy ein dull economaidd rhanbarthol newydd, ac mae prif swyddog rhanbarthol gogledd Cymru yn gweithio'n agos â'r bwrdd i wneud yr hyn a allwn. Ond partneriaeth yw hon, ac mae'n rhaid i'r ddau bartner weithredu.
5. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am barodrwydd cefnffyrdd cyn tywydd gwael posibl? OAQ54613
5. Will the Minister provide an update on trunk road preparedness in advance of potential adverse weather conditions? OAQ54613
Yes. Winter preparedness is vital for our transport networks. We are in regular contact with local authorities to monitor salt stock levels, ensuring that we can maintain the safety and reliability of the network. We also work closely with rail and bus companies so that the public transport system is prepared.
Gwnaf. Mae parodrwydd ar gyfer y gaeaf yn hanfodol i'n rhwydweithiau trafnidiaeth. Rydym mewn cysylltiad rheolaidd ag awdurdodau lleol i fonitro lefelau stociau halen, gan sicrhau y gallwn gynnal diogelwch a dibynadwyedd y rhwydwaith. Rydym hefyd yn gweithio'n agos gyda chwmnïau rheilffyrdd a bysiau i sicrhau parodrwydd y system drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus.
Thank you for your answer, Deputy Minister. Certainly in my constituency over recent weeks there's been a number of flooding issues where we've seen a number of road closures. And what constituents come to me about is the fact that they can't get information about where roads are closed, whether it be trunk roads or local-authority-responsibility roads. Now, I know the Minister has previously mentioned when he's come to the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee that communication is something that he would like to see improved for planned roadworks. I appreciate that flooding is not planned, but it would be useful, would you not agree, to have a one-stop shop where Traffic Wales can list all road closures, whether they are planned or in the event of flooding incidents? And I would hope that you would agree it's not beyond the wit of man—
Diolch am eich ateb, Ddirprwy Weinidog. Yn sicr, yn fy etholaeth dros yr wythnosau diwethaf, bu nifer o broblemau gyda llifogydd lle rydym wedi gweld nifer o ffyrdd yn cau. A’r hyn y mae etholwyr yn dod ataf yn ei gylch yw’r ffaith na allant gael gwybodaeth am ble mae'r ffyrdd ar gau, boed yn gefnffyrdd neu’n ffyrdd sy'n gyfrifoldeb i'r awdurdod lleol. Nawr, gwn fod y Gweinidog eisoes wedi crybwyll wrth Bwyllgor yr Economi, Seilwaith a Sgiliau fod cyfathrebu'n rhywbeth yr hoffai ei weld yn cael ei wella ar gyfer gwaith ffordd a gynllunnir. Rwy'n derbyn nad yw llifogydd wedi'u cynllunio, ond oni fyddech yn cytuno y byddai'n ddefnyddiol cael siop un stop lle gall Traffig Cymru restru'r holl ffyrdd sydd ar gau, boed yn gau wedi'i gynllunio neu mewn achosion o lifogydd? A buaswn yn gobeithio eich bod yn cytuno nad yw y tu hwnt i allu dyn—
Or woman.
Neu fenyw.
—or woman, Joyce, to have the facility to allow local authorities to pass on information to Traffic Wales's website, so that we've got that one-stop shop for any kind of road disruption.
—neu fenyw, Joyce, i gael cyfleuster i ganiatáu i awdurdodau lleol drosglwyddo gwybodaeth i wefan Traffig Cymru, fel bod gennym y siop un stop honno ar gyfer unrhyw fath o broblemau ar y ffordd.
Yes, I'd agree with that, and that is supposed to be happening. The Twitter feeds, certainly of the trunk road agencies that I follow, are regularly updating on both planned and unplanned road closures. So, if the Member has some particular examples of where that's failing to happen, I'd be happy to look into it further.
Iawn, buaswn yn cytuno â hynny, ac mae hynny i fod i ddigwydd. Mae'r ffrydiau Twitter, yn sicr rhai'r asiantaethau cefnffyrdd rwyf yn eu dilyn, yn rhoi diweddariadau rheolaidd ar ffyrdd sydd wedi cau, boed yn gau wedi'i gynllunio neu beidio. Felly, os oes gan yr Aelod rai enghreifftiau penodol o ble nad yw hynny'n digwydd, rwy'n fwy na pharod i ymchwilio ymhellach i hynny.
Deputy Minister, as the winter comes, the hours of darkness get longer and, therefore, we need to be looking at driving in the hours of darkness, and we would, obviously, rely upon street lighting, where it is available, to be operationally effective, particularly along the trunk roads. Now, in Port Talbot the streetlighting and the overhead section has been taken away for several months. The stumps still stand there and in the darkness and the night you can't see the stumps because it's that dark. When will the Welsh Government actually be putting the lights back in place so that elevated section of the M4, which should be lit, is lit? It should be safer for drivers, particularly in an area that is criticised very much for the traffic congestion.
Ddirprwy Weinidog, wrth i'r gaeaf agosáu, mae'r oriau tywyll yn mynd yn hwy, ac felly mae angen inni edrych ar yrru yn ystod yr oriau tywyll, a byddem yn amlwg yn dibynnu ar oleuadau stryd, lle maent ar gael, i weithio'n effeithiol, yn enwedig ar hyd y cefnffyrdd. Nawr, ym Mhort Talbot, mae'r goleuadau stryd yn y rhan uwchddaearol wedi cael eu tynnu oddi yno ers misoedd lawer. Mae'r bonion yno o hyd, ac yn y tywyllwch ac yn y nos ni allwch weld y bonion gan ei bod mor dywyll. Pryd fydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn gosod y goleuadau yn eu holau, fel bod rhan uwchddaearol yr M4 a ddylai fod wedi'i goleuo, yn cael ei goleuo? Dylai fod yn fwy diogel i yrwyr, yn enwedig mewn ardal sy'n cael ei beirniadu'n fawr am y tagfeydd traffig.
Well, certainly, the columns were cut down in April after one of them collapsed. The other structures were found to have failures that made them a safety risk. They were, therefore, removed. A report was then commissioned to look at what options were available to us, and found that in the 20 years since the lights have been in place the standards have changed and, in fact, by modern standards, it wouldn't have been built like that in the first place, and the view of the experts was that the section of road was overlit. They're now looking at what the options are, of how alternatives can be put in place and how we can bear cognisance to the decarbonisation agenda. So, we would possibly have lighting options using less energy. So, that is currently taking place. It will take some three months for the lighting columns to be ordered, so it's unlikely to happen this financial year. We are considering options in the meantime, particularly floodlighting, but that would need generators. But we are hoping to have some recommendations we can act on in the coming months.
Wel, yn sicr, torrwyd y colofnau ym mis Ebrill ar ôl i un ohonynt gwympo. Canfuwyd fod gan y strwythurau eraill fethiannau a oedd yn eu gwneud yn risg diogelwch. Fe'u symudwyd o'r herwydd. Yna, comisiynwyd adroddiad i edrych ar ba opsiynau a oedd ar gael i ni, a chanfuwyd bod y safonau wedi newid yn yr 20 mlynedd ers gosod y goleuadau, ac mewn gwirionedd, yn ôl safonau modern, ni fyddai'r ffordd wedi cael ei hadeiladu fel hynny yn y lle cyntaf, a barn yr arbenigwyr oedd fod y darn hwnnw o'r ffordd wedi'i oroleuo. Maent yn edrych yn awr ar beth yw'r opsiynau, ar sut y gellir rhoi dewisiadau amgen ar waith a sut y gallwn ystyried yr agenda ddatgarboneiddio. Felly, o bosibl, byddai gennym opsiynau goleuo sy'n defnyddio llai o ynni. Felly, mae hynny'n digwydd ar hyn o bryd. Bydd yn cymryd tua thri mis i archebu'r colofnau goleuo, felly mae'n annhebygol o ddigwydd yn y flwyddyn ariannol hon. Rydym yn ystyried opsiynau yn y cyfamser, yn enwedig llifoleuadau, ond byddai angen generaduron ar gyfer hynny. Ond rydym yn gobeithio cael rhai argymhellion y gallwn eu rhoi ar waith yn ystod y misoedd nesaf.
6. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i wella cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth yng Ngorllewin De Cymru? OAQ54625
6. What action is the Welsh Government taking to improve transport links in South Wales West? OAQ54625
Thank you. The Welsh Government is working with local authorities to develop a comprehensive programme of enhancements across all modes to improve transport links across the region that will support our communities and deliver sustainable growth.
Diolch. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithio gydag awdurdodau lleol i ddatblygu rhaglen gynhwysfawr o welliannau ar draws pob dull trafnidiaeth i wella cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth ar draws y rhanbarth a fydd yn cefnogi ein cymunedau ac yn sicrhau twf cynaliadwy.
Thank you, Deputy Minister. While somewhat justifiably a lot of the attention has been given to congestion on the M4 around Newport and the impact that it is having on the economy of the entire M4 corridor, my region is also suffering from congestion on the motorway. Junction 48 has seen nearly a 50 per cent increase in traffic in recent years, and junction 47 sees nearly 80,000 vehicles per day. Unfortunately, for many, there is no reliable alternative. The main bus operator in Swansea has just been fined because its services are so poor and unreliable. Patients travelling to Singleton and Morriston hospitals found the bus late more often than not, and the service was often cancelled altogether. And as for the train, many of my constituents complain of overcrowding and delays, and the cost per mile is higher than their car. Minister, when can my constituents expect a cheaper, more reliable public transport service?
Diolch, Ddirprwy Weinidog. Er efallai y gellir cyfiawnhau llawer o'r sylw i dagfeydd ar yr M4 ger Casnewydd a'r effaith y mae hynny'n ei chael ar economi coridor yr M4 yn gyffredinol, mae fy rhanbarth i hefyd yn dioddef o dagfeydd ar y draffordd. Mae cynnydd o bron i 50 y cant wedi bod mewn traffig ar gyffordd 48 yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf, ac mae bron i 80,000 o gerbydau y dydd yn defnyddio cyffordd 47. Yn anffodus, i lawer, nid oes dewis arall dibynadwy i'w gael. Mae'r prif weithredwr bysiau yn Abertawe newydd gael dirwy gan fod ei wasanaethau mor wael ac annibynadwy. Mae bysiau'r cleifion sy'n teithio i ysbytai Singleton a Treforys yn hwyr yn amlach na pheidio, ac mae'r gwasanaeth yn aml yn cael ei ganslo'n gyfan gwbl. Ac o ran y trên, mae llawer o fy etholwyr yn cwyno am orlenwi ac oedi, ac mae'r gost fesul milltir yn uwch na'u ceir. Weinidog, pryd y gall fy etholwyr ddisgwyl gwasanaeth trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus rhatach a mwy dibynadwy?
Well, certainly in relation to junction 48 of the M4 at Hendy, I am able to announce that we will be making investments in the next few months. Improving the traffic flow and easing congestion there is part of the economic stimulus that we've announced in response to Brexit. We are making more than £3 million available to put in lights and active travel improvements at Hendy, which should make a difference this financial year, which I'm very pleased about.
In terms of the broader point, we are working with the Department for Transport on increasing rail capacity from Swansea to London. I must say, we've been very frustrated by the progress that's been made. This was announced, you will remember, when the electrification of the main line was cancelled, and in the two years since then we've had virtually no communication from the Department for Transport to help us progress this. They've not shared documents with us, and they've not progressed this in the way that they promised us they would when they cancelled the electrification of the main line.
I must say also that I'm disappointed that we couldn't act in this place on a more cross-party basis to take this forward. When Carl Sargeant was transport Minister and a coalition was put together to make the case for electrification on the main line, that was done on the basis of all parties in this Chamber working together and making representations to Westminster, and Carl led a very successful campaign. Since the Conservatives unilaterally cancelled that deal and have not delivered on what they said they would as a result of that, we've heard silence from the Conservative benches, who have not been working with us to lobby the Department for Transport to put that right.
Wel, yn sicr mewn perthynas â chyffordd 48 yr M4 yn Hendy, gallaf gyhoeddi y byddwn yn buddsoddi yn yr ychydig fisoedd nesaf. Mae gwella llif y traffig a lliniaru tagfeydd yn rhan o'r ysgogiad economaidd rydym wedi'i gyhoeddi mewn ymateb i Brexit. Rydym yn darparu mwy na £3 miliwn i osod goleuadau a gwneud gwelliannau teithio llesol yn Hendy, a ddylai wneud gwahaniaeth yn ystod y flwyddyn ariannol hon, ac rwy'n falch iawn o hynny.
O ran y pwynt ehangach, rydym yn gweithio gyda'r Adran Drafnidiaeth i gynyddu capasiti trenau rhwng Abertawe a Llundain. Mae'n rhaid imi ddweud, mae'r cynnydd a wnaed wedi bod yn rhwystredig iawn. Cyhoeddwyd hyn, fe gofiwch, pan ganslwyd cynigion i drydaneiddio'r brif reilffordd, ac yn y ddwy flynedd ers hynny, nid ydym wedi clywed fawr ddim gan yr Adran Drafnidiaeth i'n cynorthwyo i fwrw ymlaen â hyn. Nid ydynt wedi rhannu dogfennau gyda ni, ac nid ydynt wedi bwrw ymlaen â hyn yn y ffordd y gwnaethant addo inni y byddent yn ei wneud pan wnaethant ganslo'r cynigion i drydaneiddio'r brif reilffordd.
Mae'n rhaid imi ddweud hefyd fy mod yn siomedig na allem weithredu yn y lle hwn ar sail fwy trawsbleidiol i fwrw ymlaen â hyn. Pan oedd Carl Sargeant yn Weinidog trafnidiaeth ffurfiwyd clymblaid i ddadlau'r achos dros drydaneiddio'r brif reilffordd, gwnaed hynny ar sail pob plaid yn y Siambr hon yn gweithio gyda'i gilydd a chyflwyno sylwadau i San Steffan, ac arweiniodd Carl ymgyrch lwyddiannus iawn. Ers i’r Ceidwadwyr ganslo’r fargen honno eu hunain a methu cyflawni’r hyn y dywedasant y byddent yn ei gyflawni o ganlyniad i hynny, ni chlywsom ddim byd ond distawrwydd oddi ar feinciau’r Ceidwadwyr nad ydynt wedi bod yn gweithio gyda ni i lobïo’r Adran Drafnidiaeth i wneud iawn am hynny.
What about the M4?
Beth am yr M4?
So, I would hope that—. We're talking about rail, Darren, and this is the deal that the UK Government, the promise your Government made—
Felly, buaswn yn gobeithio bod—. Rydym yn siarad am reilffyrdd, Darren, a dyma'r fargen a wnaeth Llywodraeth y DU, yr addewid a wnaeth eich Llywodraeth—
What about roads?
Beth am ffyrdd?
Darren Millar is asking, 'What about roads?' Well, one subject at a time. Let's pay attention to rail, which is a deal that your Government made with all of us in this Chamber, not just our party, to deliver electrification of the main line, and you cancelled the deal.
Mae Darren Millar yn gofyn, 'Beth am ffyrdd?' Wel, un pwnc ar y tro. Gadewch i ni roi sylw i reilffyrdd, sy'n fargen a wnaeth eich Llywodraeth â phob un ohonom yn y Siambr hon, nid ein plaid ni yn unig, i drydaneiddio'r brif reilffordd, ac fe wnaethoch chi ganslo'r fargen.
You promised improvements.
Fe wnaethoch chi addo gwelliannau.
You cancelled the deal, and you then said, in exchange for that—
Fe wnaethoch chi ganslo'r fargen, ac yna fe ddywedoch chi, yn gyfnewid am hynny—
Since Transport for Wales took over the rail service, have you seen the state of it?
Ers i Trafnidiaeth Cymru ddod yn gyfrifol am y gwasanaeth rheilffyrdd, a ydych wedi gweld ei gyflwr?
If you pay attention, you'll understand my reasoning.
Os gwnewch chi dalu sylw, fe ddeallwch fy rhesymeg.
You don't need to listen to Darren Millar when he's sat down.
Nid oes angen i chi wrando ar Darren Millar pan nad yw ar ei draed.
Well, when his microphone is on, Presiding Officer, it's very difficult not to.
Wel, Lywydd, mae'n anodd iawn peidio pan fo'i feicroffon ymlaen.
His microphone is not on.
Nid yw ei feicroffon ymlaen.
It's now gone off, I'm pleased to say.
You didn't stick to your deal. You haven't worked with us to get the replacement that you said you would put in place. So, it's time for you to examine your conscience and work with us on a cross-party basis again to deliver better improvements across the south Wales corridor.
Then, finally, to answer Caroline Jones's point, the south Wales Swansea bay metro, which we are working on along with the local authorities in the area, we have put some funding in that and we'll be putting more in to speed up the progress.
We also have increased capacity on the railway line. We've got new services and new fares being announced next month. We've got a 40 per cent increase in Sunday services across the network about to go live, as well as Sunday service on the Maesteg line for the first time. So, we are making progress, but we could make a damn sight more if the UK Government did its share of the work as well.
Mae bellach wedi diffodd, rwy'n falch o ddweud.
Ni wnaethoch gadw at eich bargen. Nid ydych wedi gweithio gyda ni i gael yr un newydd y dywedoch chi y byddech yn ei rhoi ar waith. Felly, mae'n bryd ichi archwilio'ch cydwybod a gweithio gyda ni ar sail drawsbleidiol unwaith eto i sicrhau gwell gwelliannau ar draws coridor de Cymru.
Yna, yn olaf, i ateb pwynt Caroline Jones, metro de Cymru bae Abertawe, rydym yn gweithio arno gyda'r awdurdodau lleol yn yr ardal, rydym wedi rhoi rhywfaint o gyllid i'r broses honno a byddwn yn rhoi mwy o gyllid er mwyn cyflymu'r cynnydd.
Rydym hefyd wedi cynyddu capasiti ar y rheilffordd. Mae gennym wasanaethau newydd a phrisiau tocynnau newydd a fydd yn cael eu cyhoeddi y mis nesaf. Mae 40 y cant yn fwy o wasanaethau dydd Sul ar fin cychwyn ar draws y rhwydwaith, yn ogystal â gwasanaeth dydd Sul ar reilffordd Maesteg am y tro cyntaf. Felly, rydym yn gwneud cynnydd, ond gallem wneud mwy o lawer pe bai Llywodraeth y DU yn gwneud ei chyfran o'r gwaith hefyd.
7. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am seilwaith trafnidiaeth yng ngogledd Cymru? OAQ54636
7. Will the Minister make a statement on transport infrastructure in north Wales? OAQ54636
Well, I'm looking forward to this. [Laughter.] The Welsh Government will invest in all modes to deliver the modern, high-quality transport system that's fundamental to achieving our sustainability, in all senses of the word.
Wel, rwy'n edrych ymlaen at hyn. [Chwerthin.] Bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn buddsoddi ym mhob dull trafnidiaeth i ddarparu'r system drafnidiaeth fodern o ansawdd uchel sy'n hollbwysig i gyflawni ein cynaliadwyedd, ym mhob ystyr o'r gair.
One area of investment that you are responsible for but haven't taken very seriously is the need for investment in the A55 trunk road in my constituency. You will be aware of the significant disruption that often takes place on the A55, particularly when there is road maintenance taking place or, indeed, when there are accidents on that road because of the lack of a hard shoulder along significant parts of it. The failure to address the congestion on the A55 is having a devastating impact on our visitor experience, it's causing ambulances not to be able to get to patients on time or to get them to hospitals when they need to, and, of course, it's causing untold damage to the economy in terms of people not being able to get to or from work or, indeed, places of education or employment.
I give you the example of the recent roadworks in Llanddulas, which caused tailbacks that amounted to over an hour of extra travel time through the A55 in my constituency, and caused untold havoc on roads, including the B5381, the B5383, which I'm sure you're very familiar with, and the A547, all of which are local roads that cost a significant amount to repair once the heavy traffic from the A55, for which they're not designed, has to travel along them in order to avoid the chaos that your Government causes because of the lack of investment. So, can you tell us when will we see a proper upgrade of the A55 throughout north Wales, not just in Labour-held constituencies?
Un maes buddsoddi rydych yn gyfrifol amdano ond heb ei gymryd o ddifrif yw'r angen am fuddsoddiad yng nghefnffordd yr A55 yn fy etholaeth. Fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol o'r tarfu sylweddol sy'n digwydd yn aml ar yr A55, yn enwedig pan fydd gwaith cynnal a chadw yn mynd rhagddo ar y ffordd, neu yn wir, pan fydd damweiniau'n digwydd ar y ffordd honno o ganlyniad i'r diffyg llain galed ar rannau sylweddol ohoni. Mae'r methiant i fynd i'r afael â'r tagfeydd ar yr A55 yn cael effaith ddinistriol ar ein profiad i ymwelwyr, mae'n peri i ambiwlansys fethu cyrraedd cleifion mewn pryd neu eu cludo i ysbytai pan fydd angen, ac wrth gwrs, mae'n achosi niwed aruthrol i'r economi o ran pobl yn methu cyrraedd neu adael eu gwaith, neu leoliadau addysg neu gyflogaeth yn wir.
Un enghraifft yw'r gwaith ffordd diweddar yn Llanddulas, a achosodd dagfeydd a arweiniodd at dros awr o amser teithio ychwanegol ar yr A55 yn fy etholaeth, gan achosi anhrefn llwyr ar ffyrdd, gan gynnwys y B5381, y B5383, sy'n gyfarwydd iawn i chi, rwy'n siŵr, â'r A547, pob un ohonynt yn ffyrdd lleol sy'n costio cryn dipyn i'w hatgyweirio pan fydd yn rhaid i'r traffig trwm oddi ar yr A55, nad ydynt wedi'u cynllunio ar ei gyfer, deithio arnynt er mwyn osgoi'r anhrefn y mae eich Llywodraeth yn ei achosi oherwydd y diffyg buddsoddiad. Felly, a allwch ddweud wrthym pryd y gwelwn yr A55 yn cael ei huwchraddio'n iawn ar draws gogledd Cymru, nid mewn etholaethau Llafur yn unig?
So, just let me get this straight, is he complaining that we're not investing, or is he complaining that we are investing and then complaining about the roadworks that that investment causes? I'm not entirely clear of the tenor of his complaint. He can't have it all ways. When we are upgrading and investing, it involves disruption, and that is unfortunately a fact that we can't get away from.
We are investing in a range of initiatives at junctions 15 and 16 of the A55, where we have junction improvements and developments, and the A55 Abergwyngregyn to Tai'r Meibion improvement scheme, which is currently seeing investment. [Interruption.] It's a corridor, Darren Millar; you need investments right along the corridor. In the Flintshire corridor, the Dee river bridge improvement and in the Menai crossing, we are investing. In fact, we're investing £60 million a year of capital funding for local authorities to invest in a highways refurbishment scheme.
But tackling congestion isn't just about road improvements, it's about a multimodal approach to give people alternatives to roads, and we are investing significantly in the railway. And I'm sure he will join me in welcoming an announcement that I can make—[Interruption.] Absolutely, there is something for Clwyd West. Pay attention. I look forward to the press release from you welcoming the fact that I can today announce a £1.6 million investment in Old Colwyn promenade for the upgrade to improve active travel facilities and raised coastal defences. [Interruption.] He says, 'About time'; there's no pleasing some people, is there? So, we are investing in Clwyd West and we're investing in active travel to encourage modal shift, so I'm sure you'll welcome that.
Gadewch i mi ddeall hyn yn iawn, a yw'n cwyno nad ydym yn buddsoddi, neu a yw'n cwyno ein bod yn buddsoddi ac yna'n cwyno am y gwaith ffordd y mae'r buddsoddiad hwnnw'n ei achosi? Nid wyf yn deall ei gŵyn yn iawn. Ni all ei chael hi bob ffordd. Pan fyddwn yn uwchraddio ac yn buddsoddi, mae hynny'n golygu tarfu, ac yn anffodus mae honno'n ffaith na allwn ei hosgoi.
Rydym yn buddsoddi mewn ystod o fentrau ar gyffyrdd 15 ac 16 ar yr A55, lle mae gennym ddatblygiadau a gwelliannau ar waith ar y cyffyrdd, a chynllun ar gyfer gwella ffordd yr A55 Abergwyngregyn i Dai’r Meibion, y buddsoddir ynddo ar hyn o bryd. [Torri ar draws.] Mae'n goridor, Darren Millar; mae arnoch angen buddsoddiadau ar hyd y coridor. Yng nghoridor sir y Fflint, gwelliannau pont afon Dyfrdwy a chroesfan y Fenai, rydym yn buddsoddi. Mewn gwirionedd, rydym yn buddsoddi £60 miliwn y flwyddyn o arian cyfalaf i awdurdodau lleol ei fuddsoddi mewn cynllun adnewyddu priffyrdd.
Ond nid yw mynd i'r afael â thagfeydd yn golygu gwella ffyrdd yn unig, mae'n ymwneud â dull amlfoddol i roi dewisiadau amgen i bobl yn lle ffyrdd, ac rydym yn buddsoddi'n sylweddol yn y rheilffordd. Ac rwy'n siŵr y bydd yn ymuno â mi i groesawu cyhoeddiad y gallaf ei wneud—[Torri ar draws.] Yn sicr, mae rhywbeth ar gyfer Gorllewin Clwyd. Talwch sylw. Edrychaf ymlaen at weld y datganiad i'r wasg gennych yn croesawu'r ffaith y gallaf gyhoeddi buddsoddiad o £1.6 miliwn heddiw ym mhromenâd Hen Golwyn ar gyfer y gwaith uwchraddio i wella cyfleusterau teithio llesol a chodi amddiffynfeydd arfordirol uwch. [Torri ar draws.] Mae'n dweud, 'Hen bryd'; nid oes plesio ar rai pobl. Felly, rydym yn buddsoddi yng Ngorllewin Clwyd ac rydym yn buddsoddi mewn teithio llesol i annog newid moddol, felly rwy'n siŵr y byddwch yn croesawu hynny.
8. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am gynlluniau Trafnidiaeth Cymru i gynyddu capasiti teithwyr ar gyfer defnyddwyr rheilffyrdd yn Islwyn? OAQ54629
8. Will the Minister provide an update on Transport for Wales's plans to increase passenger capacity for rail users in Islwyn? OAQ54629
The Minister, Ken Skates, set out his vision for rail in Wales in his statement on 24 September. As part of our ambitious plans for the south Wales metro, Transport for Wales will deliver additional services, with improved rolling stock and stations in Islwyn.
Nododd y Gweinidog, Ken Skates, ei weledigaeth ar gyfer rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru yn ei ddatganiad ar 24 Medi. Fel rhan o'n cynlluniau uchelgeisiol ar gyfer metro de Cymru, bydd Trafnidiaeth Cymru yn darparu gwasanaethau ychwanegol, gyda gwell cerbydau trenau a gorsafoedd yn Islwyn.
Diolch, Deputy Minister. Thank you for that answer. The Ebbw Vale to Cardiff line reopened by the Welsh Labour Government has been one of the most visible success stories of devolution. In the 11 years since the line has been reopened, passengers have flocked to use the hourly service. As the Member for Islwyn, I will continue to eulogise around the previously unavailable benefits that this has offered the Islwyn communities of Risca, Newbridge and Crosskeys. However, forward movement is the point, as will be the extension to Newport.
Transport for Wales announced in October of this year plans to introduce far greater capacity for up to 6,500 more commuters a week from December this year across the network, and the additional news that Islwyn passengers on the Ebbw Vale to Cardiff line will have the benefit of fit-for-purpose modern class 170 trains with real space on board, passenger information systems, accessible toilets, air conditioning, Wi-Fi and power sockets. So, Deputy Minister, what can I tell the people of Islwyn about when they will see this improved capacity for carriage trains on their line, and what is the timescale for the first class 170 train to run on that line?
Diolch, Ddirprwy Weinidog. Diolch am eich ateb. Mae rheilffordd Glyn Ebwy i Gaerdydd, a ailagorwyd gan Lywodraeth Lafur Cymru, wedi bod yn un o lwyddiannau mwyaf gweladwy datganoli. Yn yr 11 mlynedd ers ailagor y rheilffordd, mae teithwyr wedi heidio i ddefnyddio'r gwasanaeth bob awr. Fel yr Aelod dros Islwyn, byddaf yn parhau i ganmol y manteision nad oeddent ar gael o'r blaen y mae hyn yn eu cynnig i gymunedau Rhisga, Trecelyn a Crosskeys yn Islwyn. Fodd bynnag, symud ymlaen yw'r pwynt, a dyna fydd yn digwydd gyda'r estyniad i Gasnewydd.
Cyhoeddodd Trafnidiaeth Cymru gynlluniau ym mis Hydref eleni i gyflwyno llawer mwy o gapasiti ar gyfer hyd at 6,500 o gymudwyr ychwanegol bob wythnos o fis Rhagfyr eleni ymlaen ar draws y rhwydwaith, a’r newyddion ychwanegol y bydd teithwyr o Islwyn ar reilffordd Glyn Ebwy i Gaerdydd yn elwa o drenau modern dosbarth 170 sy'n addas at y diben, gyda digonedd o le, systemau gwybodaeth i deithwyr, toiledau hygyrch, systemau aerdymheru, Wi-Fi a socedi trydan. Felly, Ddirprwy Weinidog, beth y gallaf ei ddweud wrth bobl Islwyn ynglŷn â phryd y gallant weld y capasiti gwell hwn ar drenau ar eu rheilffordd, a beth yw'r amserlen ar gyfer y trên dosbarth 170 cyntaf ar y rheilffordd honno?
Well, I think Rhianon Passmore has stolen my thunder. [Laughter.] She's included the announcement in the question, and she's quite right to say it. We should be proud of the real improvements we're making to the communities she represents so ably in the Chamber. From 16 December this year, as part of the December timetable change, there will be class 170 trains between Cardiff and Ebbw Vale and between Cheltenham and Maesteg, with the benefit of modern class 170 trains, with more space, onboard passenger information systems, accessible toilets, air conditioning, Wi-Fi and power sockets, which will provide space for up to 6,500 more commuters every week, a real tangible benefit, as a result of the rail leadership the Welsh Government are providing. And by December 2022, there'll be even more increases in capacity, with an extra 180 seats on the Ebbw Vale to Cardiff line in morning peak, and that is something we should celebrate, and it is as a direct result of the action this Labour Government is taking to improve the facilities for people in Islwyn.
Wel, credaf fod Rhianon Passmore wedi achub y blaen arnaf. [Chwerthin.] Roedd ei chwestiwn yn cynnwys y cyhoeddiad, ac mae'n llygad ei lle i ddweud hynny. Dylem fod yn falch o'r gwelliannau gwirioneddol rydym yn eu gwneud i'r cymunedau y mae'n eu cynrychioli mor dda yn y Siambr. O 16 Rhagfyr eleni ymlaen, fel rhan o'r newid i'r amserlen ym mis Rhagfyr, bydd trenau dosbarth 170 yn gweithredu rhwng Caerdydd a Glyn Ebwy a rhwng Cheltenham a Maesteg, gyda manteision trenau dosbarth 170 modern, gyda mwy o le, systemau gwybodaeth i deithwyr ar y trenau, toiledau hygyrch, systemau aerdymheru, Wi-Fi a socedi trydan, a fydd yn darparu lle i hyd at 6,500 o gymudwyr ychwanegol bob wythnos, mantais wirioneddol o ganlyniad i arweinyddiaeth Llywodraeth Cymru ar reilffyrdd. Ac erbyn mis Rhagfyr 2022, bydd mwy o gynnydd eto yn y capasiti, gyda 180 sedd ychwanegol ar reilffordd Glyn Ebwy i Gaerdydd yn ystod oriau brig y bore, ac mae hynny'n rhywbeth y dylem ei ddathlu, ac mae'n digwydd o ganlyniad uniongyrchol i'r camau y mae'r Llywodraeth Lafur hon yn eu cymryd i wella'r cyfleusterau i bobl yn Islwyn.
9. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am economi ardal bae Abertawe? OAQ54620
9. Will the Minister make a statement on the economy of the Swansea bay area? OAQ54620
Yes. Between 2011 and 2017, gross value added per head in the Swansea bay area increased by 14.3 per cent, and in 2018, there were 18,025 active enterprises in the Swansea bay area.
Gwnaf. Rhwng 2011 a 2017, cynyddodd gwerth ychwanegol gros y pen yn ardal bae Abertawe 14.3 y cant, ac yn 2018, roedd 18,025 o fentrau gweithredol yn ardal bae Abertawe.
One of the highlights of it is the SA1 development that is in my constituency, which is a mixed development including houses and flats, hotels, restaurants and major employers that includes Admiral, University of Wales Trinity Saint David and companies with substantial growth potential, such as the Wales Centre for Advanced Batch Manufacture. Much of that has been done due to investment by the private sector and the Welsh Government. How much has been invested in the area, and how much more is there expected to be?
Un o'r uchafbwyntiau yw datblygiad SA1 yn fy etholaeth, sef datblygiad cymysg sy'n cynnwys tai a fflatiau, gwestai, bwytai a chyflogwyr mawr sy'n cynnwys Admiral, Prifysgol Cymru y Drindod Dewi Sant a chwmnïau â photensial twf sylweddol, fel Canolfan Cymru ar gyfer Gweithgynhyrchu Swp Uwch. Cyflawnwyd llawer o hynny o ganlyniad i fuddsoddiad gan y sector preifat a Llywodraeth Cymru. Faint sydd wedi'i fuddsoddi yn yr ardal, a faint yn fwy y gellir ei ddisgwyl?
The Welsh Government has invested £59 million in the SA1 development, and on top of that, Swansea University has secured £100 million of European Union funds to support major new facilities and research and development programmes in the development. On top of that, working with the Swansea bay city region and the UK Government, we are investing further in Swansea city centre through the city deal. We would like to make further interventions through the movement of the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency into Swansea city centre, which we think would have a tangible impact on the whole of Swansea—Swansea East and West. Unfortunately, we've had no luck engaging the UK Government on that, but I would certainly welcome a campaign of regional Members to try and work with us to try and get that, because I think that could make a significant impact on the fabric of Swansea.
I think the other question, to respond to the broader point that Mike Hedges is making, is how we spread the development of SA1 beyond that into his constituency, which has some of the most economically challenged wards in the country. There, our regional approach and our commitment to the foundational economy I think has much potential.
Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi buddsoddi £59 miliwn yn natblygiad SA1, ac yn ychwanegol at hynny, mae Prifysgol Abertawe wedi sicrhau £100 miliwn o gronfeydd yr Undeb Ewropeaidd i gefnogi cyfleusterau newydd pwysig a rhaglenni ymchwil a datblygu yn y datblygiad. Yn ogystal â hynny, gan weithio gyda dinas-ranbarth bae Abertawe a Llywodraeth y DU, rydym yn buddsoddi ymhellach yng nghanol dinas Abertawe drwy'r fargen ddinesig. Hoffem wneud ymyriadau pellach drwy symud yr Asiantaeth Trwyddedu Gyrwyr a Cherbydau i ganol dinas Abertawe, a fyddai, yn ein barn ni, yn cael effaith bendant ar Abertawe gyfan—Dwyrain Abertawe a Gorllewin Abertawe. Yn anffodus, nid ydym wedi cael unrhyw lwc wrth ymgysylltu â Llywodraeth y DU ynghylch hynny, ond buaswn yn sicr yn croesawu ymgyrch gan Aelodau rhanbarthol i geisio gweithio gyda ni i wneud hynny, gan y credaf y gallai gael effaith sylweddol ar wead Abertawe.
Credaf mai'r cwestiwn arall, i ymateb i'r pwynt ehangach y mae Mike Hedges yn ei wneud, yw sut y lledaenwn ddatblygiad SA1 y tu hwnt i hynny i'w etholaeth, sy'n cynnwys rhai o'r wardiau mwyaf economaidd ddifreintiedig yn y wlad. Yno, credaf fod gan ein hymagwedd ranbarthol a'n hymrwymiad i'r economi sylfaenol gryn dipyn o botensial.
Ac yn olaf, Suzy Davies.
Finally, Suzy Davies.
Rhif 9, ie?
No. 9, yes?
Ie, rhif 9.
Yes, no. 9.
Ocê. Diolch yn fawr am hynny. Sori.
Okay. Thank you very much for that. Sorry.
You mentioned the Swansea bay city deal, Deputy Minister, and, of course, we're waiting for the first £18 million of that to come through. I understand the delay is down to Welsh Government not telling the city deal lead, Rob Stewart, a Labour colleague of yours, the terms and conditions of the £18 million that they've been waiting for. He's complained that it's taken 16 weeks, which is far too long. Can you tell us what the reason for the delay is, please?
Fe sonioch chi am fargen ddinesig bae Abertawe, Ddirprwy Weinidog, ac wrth gwrs, rydym yn dal i aros i £18 miliwn cyntaf y fargen ddod drwodd. Deallaf mai'r rheswm dros yr oedi yw nad yw Llywodraeth Cymru wedi dweud wrth arweinydd y fargen ddinesig, Rob Stewart, un o'ch cymheiriaid Llafur, beth yw telerau ac amodau'r £18 miliwn y maent wedi bod yn aros amdano. Mae wedi cwyno ei bod wedi cymryd 16 wythnos, sy'n rhy hir o lawer. A allwch ddweud wrthym beth yw'r rheswm am yr oedi, os gwelwch yn dda?
The way that the city deal project has been set up by the UK Government and the Treasury has been extremely challenging and complicated for local authorities that are not kitted out to take projects through a five-case business model approach. Two independent reports done into the city deal pointed out that the capacity did not exist locally and, as a result, great frustration was building up on the part of local authorities who had the ideas and they had the plans to take these projects forward, but simply could not meet the tests of the business cases demanded by the Treasury, which we then had to discharge as part of the heads of terms of the city deal. So, it's been a very frustrating process all round. Those independent reports suggested a series of reforms to blast that out of the way, and the region is making progress in delivering those. Part of meeting the concerns laid out in that report was the implementation of terms and conditions to make sure the money would be well spent, and we've been working through with the region the detailed implementation of those terms and conditions. I believe we are very close to the point of being able to sign them off.
Mae'r ffordd y mae prosiect y fargen ddinesig wedi'i sefydlu gan Lywodraeth y DU a'r Trysorlys wedi bod yn hynod heriol a chymhleth i awdurdodau lleol nad oes ganddynt fodd o fynd â phrosiectau drwy ddull model busnes pum achos. Mae dau adroddiad annibynnol a gwblhawyd ar y fargen ddinesig wedi nodi nad oedd capasiti'n bodoli'n lleol, ac o ganlyniad, roedd cryn dipyn o rwystredigaeth yn cronni ar ran awdurdodau lleol a oedd â'r syniadau a'r cynlluniau i fwrw ymlaen â'r prosiectau hyn, ond ni allent fodloni meini prawf yr achosion busnes roedd y Trysorlys yn eu mynnu, a bu'n rhaid i ni eu cyflawni wedyn fel rhan o benawdau telerau'r fargen ddinesig. Felly, bu'n broses rwystredig iawn ym mhob ffordd. Awgrymodd yr adroddiadau annibynnol hynny gyfres o ddiwygiadau i gael gwared ar hynny, ac mae'r rhanbarth yn gwneud cynnydd wrth eu cyflawni. Rhan o'r ateb i'r pryderon a nodwyd yn yr adroddiad hwnnw oedd rhoi telerau ac amodau ar waith i sicrhau y byddai'r arian yn cael ei wario'n dda, ac rydym wedi bod yn gweithio gyda'r rhanbarth i roi'r telerau a'r amodau hynny ar waith yn fanwl. Credaf ein bod yn agos iawn at allu eu cymeradwyo.
Diolch i'r Dirprwy Weinidog.
Thank you to the Deputy Minister.
Yr eitem nesaf, felly, yw'r cwestiynau i'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol yn rhinwedd ei gyfrifoldeb fel Gweinidog Brexit. Mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf [OAQ54630] wedi'i dynnu yn ôl, felly cwestiwn 2—Mike Hedges.
The next item, therefore, is questions to the Counsel General in respect of his Brexit Minister responsibilities. The first question [OAQ54630] has been withdrawn, therefore question 2—Mike Hedges.
2. Pa asesiad y mae'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol wedi'i wneud o effaith Brexit ar buro dŵr yfed? OAQ54619
2. What assessment has the Counsel General made of the impact of Brexit on drinking water purification? OAQ54619
Primary responsibility for providing clean, safe drinking water lies with the water companies. The water companies, working with the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, water regulators and the devolved Governments, carried out robust and detailed mitigation planning to prevent impacts on the supply of safe and clean water once the UK leaves the European Union.
Y cwmnïau dŵr sydd â'r prif gyfrifoldeb am ddarparu dŵr yfed glân a diogel. Mae'r cwmnïau dŵr, gan weithio gydag Adran yr Amgylchedd, Bwyd a Materion Gwledig, rheoleiddwyr dŵr a'r Llywodraethau datganoledig, wedi cynhyrchu cynlluniau lliniaru cadarn a manwl i atal effeithiau ar gyflenwad dŵr diogel a glân pan fydd y DU yn gadael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd.
One of the most important things in life is clean drinking water, as many people in some third-world countries discover daily, unfortunately. What Brexit has taught us, however, is how hollowed-out our economy has become and how dependent on imports for basic necessities we as a country have become. While it's not life changing to only be able to buy seasonal vegetables, lack of clean water is life changing and possibly life ending. What is the Welsh Government doing to ensure the continuity of supply of chemicals needed for water purification, and what support are they giving to the water company covering most of Wales and the other water company covering the rest of Wales in order to ensure that the water we get out of our taps is clean and of the standard we expect and we are having now?
Un o'r pethau pwysicaf mewn bywyd yw dŵr yfed glân, fel y mae llawer o bobl mewn rhai o wledydd y trydydd byd yn ei ddarganfod bob dydd, yn anffodus. Yr hyn y mae Brexit wedi'i ddysgu inni, fodd bynnag, yw'r ffordd y mae ein heconomi wedi teneuo a pha mor ddibynnol rydym ni fel gwlad ar fewnforio angenrheidiau sylfaenol. Er nad yw'n newid bywyd i allu prynu llysiau tymhorol yn unig, mae diffyg dŵr glân yn newid bywydau ac o bosibl yn rhoi diwedd ar fywydau. Beth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i sicrhau parhad y cyflenwad o gemegau sydd eu hangen i buro dŵr, a pha gefnogaeth y maent yn ei rhoi i'r cwmni dŵr sy'n gwasanaethu'r rhan fwyaf o Gymru a'r cwmni dŵr arall sy'n gwasanaethu gweddill Cymru er mwyn sicrhau bod y dŵr a gawn o'n tapiau yn lân ac o'r ansawdd rydym yn ei ddisgwyl ac yn ei gael ar hyn o bryd?
Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (Ann Jones) i’r Gadair.
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.
I thank the Member for that supplementary question. This is a very important question, of course. Wales has some of the highest quality drinking water in Europe, with our compliance against the relevant standards standing at 99.95 per cent. So, it's an important issue for us and we will always want to continue to align to those standards, wherever Brexit takes us. He will be aware, of course, that security of the water supply in the UK has been part of the Operation Yellowhammer planning process, and the water industries' representative body, Water UK, and the water companies, including those operating in Wales, have been working collectively to ensure they have a granular understanding of the supply chain. They've taken specific measures in relation to stockpiling critical chemicals used to treat water, as well as establishing mutual aid arrangements with other water companies. In a worst-case scenario—but we think it's very unlikely this would be necessary—the statutes give Welsh Ministers power to issue directions to our water companies to mitigate any effects that might arise.
Diolch i'r Aelod am ei gwestiwn atodol. Mae hwn yn gwestiwn pwysig iawn, wrth gwrs. Mae gan Gymru beth o'r dŵr yfed o'r safon uchaf yn Ewrop, gyda'n cydymffurfiaeth yn erbyn y safonau perthnasol yn 99.95 y cant. Felly, mae'n fater pwysig i ni, a byddwn bob amser yn awyddus i barhau i fodloni'r safonau hynny, ni waeth beth fydd yn digwydd yn sgil Brexit. Fe fydd yn ymwybodol, wrth gwrs, fod diogelwch y cyflenwad dŵr yn y DU wedi bod yn rhan o broses gynllunio Operation Yellowhammer, ac mae corff cynrychiadol y diwydiannau dŵr, Water UK, a’r cwmnïau dŵr, gan gynnwys y rheini sy’n gweithredu yng Nghymru, wedi bod yn gweithio ar y cyd i sicrhau bod ganddynt ddealltwriaeth fanwl o'r gadwyn gyflenwi. Maent wedi cymryd camau penodol mewn perthynas â chasglu cemegau hanfodol a ddefnyddir i drin dŵr, yn ogystal â sefydlu trefniadau cyd-gymorth gyda chwmnïau dŵr eraill. Yn y senario waethaf—ond credwn ei bod yn annhebygol iawn y byddai hyn yn angenrheidiol—mae'r statudau'n rhoi'r grym i Weinidogion Cymru roi cyfarwyddiadau i'n cwmnïau dŵr liniaru unrhyw effeithiau a allai godi.
3. Pa drafodaethau y mae'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol wedi'u cael gyda diwydiant yng ngogledd Cymru yn dilyn cyhoeddi estyniad i Brexit tan 31 Ionawr 2020? OAQ54631
3. What discussions has the Counsel General had with industry in north Wales following the announcement of a Brexit extension until 31 January 2020? OAQ54631
My ministerial colleagues and I have engaged widely with businesses on Brexit issues as part of our engagement with stakeholders across Wales. Most recently, the Minister for Economy and Transport led a round-table meeting on small and medium-sized enterprise access to finance on 24 October in Wrexham.
Mae fy nghyd-Weinidogion a minnau wedi ymgysylltu'n helaeth â busnesau ar faterion sy'n ymwneud â Brexit fel rhan o'n gwaith ymgysylltu â rhanddeiliaid ledled Cymru. Yn fwyaf diweddar, arweiniodd Gweinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth gyfarfod bord gron ar fynediad busnesau bach a chanolig at gyllid ar 24 Hydref yn Wrecsam.
Diolch yn fawr, Minister, for that answer. Alyn and Deeside is home to some of Wales's most high-tech and advanced industry and the dedicated and skilled workforce that are within that area. For these employers and those employees, planning is key. Can the Minister detail further the contact he and his officials, and any other ministerial colleagues, have had with the major employers within the area and the associated trade unions, like Unite the Union, to ensure that they can continue to plan? Can he also spell out what other support is there available to them? And, finally, how confident is he that the UK Government, the Tory UK Government, are listening to these groups and these employers for the sake of their families and are sharing the relevant information with them?
Diolch yn fawr am eich ateb, Weinidog. Mae Alun a Glannau Dyfrdwy yn gartref i rai o ddiwydiannau mwyaf uwch-dechnolegol a blaengar Cymru a'r gweithlu ymroddedig a medrus sydd yn yr ardal honno. I'r cyflogwyr a'r gweithwyr hyn, mae cynllunio'n allweddol. A all y Gweinidog fanylu ymhellach ar y cyswllt y mae ef a'i swyddogion, ac unrhyw gyd-Weinidogion eraill, wedi'i gael gyda phrif gyflogwyr yr ardal a'r undebau llafur cysylltiedig, fel undeb Unite, i sicrhau y gallant barhau i gynllunio? A all nodi hefyd pa gymorth arall sydd ar gael iddynt? Ac yn olaf, pa mor hyderus yw ef fod Llywodraeth y DU, Llywodraeth Dorïaidd y DU, yn gwrando ar y grwpiau hyn a'r cyflogwyr hyn er lles eu teuluoedd ac yn rhannu'r wybodaeth berthnasol â hwy?
I thank the Member for that question. Since his time in the Chamber, he has always sought to understand the impact of Brexit on his constituency and on employers there, so I appreciate his continuing concern in relation to that.
The Welsh Government continues to engage with businesses in a variety of different ways, either face-to-face direct engagement, round-table sessions, which both the Minister for the Economy and Transport and I and others have led on, communications via Business Wales and the business support networks, as well as a range of media channels. He'll know that the Government is providing ongoing business support through the economy futures fund and the work of the Development Bank of Wales, and the Minister for Economy and Transport most recently announced a further £6 million for the Brexit resilience fund, announced at the end of last week, which consists of a blend of grant and loan funding that companies can apply for. And in addition to that, we continue to do everything we can to publicise and promote the information that we have on the Paratoi Cymru/Preparing Wales website, which includes the Brexit portal, which has had, I think, 39,000 users to date.
Diolch i'r Aelod am ei gwestiwn. Ers iddo ddod i'r Siambr, mae bob amser wedi ceisio deall effaith Brexit ar ei etholaeth ac ar gyflogwyr yno, felly rwy’n gwerthfawrogi ei bryder parhaus mewn perthynas â hynny.
Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn parhau i ymgysylltu â busnesau mewn amryw o wahanol ffyrdd, naill ai drwy ymgysylltu'n uniongyrchol wyneb yn wyneb, sesiynau bord gron, sy'n rhywbeth y mae Gweinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth a minnau ac eraill wedi arwain arnynt, cyfathrebiadau drwy Busnes Cymru a'r rhwydweithiau cymorth busnes, yn ogystal ag ystod o sianeli'r cyfryngau. Fe fydd yn ymwybodol fod y Llywodraeth yn darparu cymorth busnes parhaus drwy gronfa dyfodol yr economi a gwaith Banc Datblygu Cymru, ac yn fwyaf diweddar, cyhoeddodd Gweinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth £6 miliwn arall ar gyfer cronfa cydnerthedd Brexit a gyhoeddwyd ddiwedd yr wythnos diwethaf, sy'n cynnwys cyfuniad o arian grant a chyllid benthyciad y gall cwmnïau wneud cais amdano. Ac yn ogystal â hynny, rydym yn parhau i wneud popeth yn ein gallu i hyrwyddo a rhoi cyhoeddusrwydd i'r wybodaeth sydd gennym ar wefan Paratoi Cymru, sy'n cynnwys y porth Brexit, sydd wedi cael 39,000 o ddefnyddwyr hyd yn hyn, rwy'n credu.
In September, the CBI director general Carolyn Fairbairn said:
'So many businesses here in Wales are full of optimism and enthusiasm. They want to be talking about—and acting on—Welsh strengths. To signal that Wales is open for business. But desperately want to put an end to uncertainty.'
Quoting businesses in north Wales at the start of October, the Daily Post said:
'Uncertainty fuels uncertainty. We need an end to all Brexit uncertainty.'
In mid October, the chair of Ocado and the former Marks and Spencer boss, Stuart Rose, said he now supports the new UK Government deal, saying he was involved in the original 'remain' campaign, but he's also a realist, and he said he hoped he's a pragmatist and a respecter of the democratic process.
And, finally, the chief economist and strategist at city investment firm Schroders said passing the new deal could unlock stronger growth in the economy:
'if the deal passes through Parliament on Saturday',
which it didn't,
'we should see stronger growth in the UK economy as the cloud of Brexit uncertainty lifts.'
What action are you taking to listen to industry and business, whose key concern is that lack of certainty, and to avoid, therefore, dragging this out for months more as parties seek to renegotiate, re-referendum or what have you. The future growth of the Welsh economy and the well-being of employment and people in Wales depends on that certainty, articulated so effectively by business. Uncertainty needs to end.
Ym mis Medi, dywedodd cyfarwyddwr cyffredinol Cydffederasiwn Diwydiant Prydain, Carolyn Fairbairn:
Mae cymaint o fusnesau yma yng Nghymru yn llawn optimistiaeth a brwdfrydedd. Maent yn awyddus i sôn am—a gweithredu ar—gryfderau Cymru. I nodi bod Cymru'n agored ar gyfer busnes. Ond maent yn wirioneddol awyddus i roi terfyn ar ansicrwydd.
Gan ddyfynnu busnesau yng ngogledd Cymru ddechrau mis Hydref, dywedodd y Daily Post:
Mae ansicrwydd yn bwydo ansicrwydd. Mae angen inni roi terfyn ar holl ansicrwydd Brexit.
Yng nghanol mis Hydref, dywedodd cadeirydd Ocado a chyn-bennaeth Marks and Spencer, Stuart Rose, ei fod bellach yn cefnogi cytundeb newydd Llywodraeth y DU, gan ddweud ei fod yn rhan o’r ymgyrch wreiddiol i 'aros', ond ei fod hefyd yn realydd, a dywedodd ei fod yn gobeithio ei fod yn bragmatydd ac yn parchu'r broses ddemocrataidd.
Ac yn olaf, dywedodd prif economegydd a strategydd cwmni buddsoddi Schroders y gallai derbyn y cytundeb newydd ddatgloi twf cryfach yn yr economi:
os yw'r cytundeb yn cael ei basio gan Senedd y DU ddydd Sadwrn,
rhywbeth na ddigwyddodd,
dylem weld twf cryfach yn economi'r DU wrth i gwmwl ansicrwydd Brexit godi.
Pa gamau rydych yn eu cymryd i wrando ar ddiwydiant a busnes ynglŷn â'u prif bryder, sef y diffyg sicrwydd hwnnw, a thrwy hynny, osgoi rhygnu ymlaen â hyn am fisoedd yn rhagor wrth i bleidiau geisio ailnegodi, ailgynnal refferendwm neu beth bynnag. Mae twf economi Cymru yn y dyfodol a lles cyflogaeth a phobl yng Nghymru yn dibynnu ar y sicrwydd hwnnw, a fynegwyd mor effeithiol gan y byd busnes. Mae angen rhoi diwedd ar yr ansicrwydd.
Well, I welcome and appreciate the Member's concern for the interests of business. If only that was shared by his parliamentary party in Westminster who have ridden roughshod over the concerns of business since the beginning of the Brexit debate.
I, too, heard the remarks of Carolyn Fairbairn, and I think I also heard her say that business investment was 26 per cent under trend as a consequence of Brexit. And also, business growth was several percentage points beneath what would we expect it to be.
He's right, in fact, to identify the question of uncertainty. We hear every day in Wales the impact that Brexit is already having on businesses and employers and livelihoods right across the country. But the alternative universe that he's positing is one where this deal is good for business, and it just is not. And the notion that this deal draws this matter to a certain close is complete fiction. This is a bad deal and it gives us the certainty of a bad deal for businesses right across Wales. We are looking at substantial additional costs for small businesses that export that they can barely afford to pay. Maybe he'll confirm to me if the UK Government is planning on compensating them for that. But otherwise, these are significant burdens that businesses in Wales can ill afford to have to take on.
Wel, rwy'n croesawu ac yn gwerthfawrogi pryderon yr Aelod ynghylch buddiannau busnes. O na byddai ei blaid seneddol yn San Steffan, sydd wedi sathru ar bryderon busnes ers dechrau dadl Brexit, yn rhannu'r un pryderon.
Clywais innau sylwadau Carolyn Fairbairn, a chredaf imi ei chlywed yn dweud hefyd fod buddsoddiad busnes 26 y cant o dan y duedd o ganlyniad i Brexit. Ac yn ogystal, roedd twf busnes sawl pwynt canran yn is na'r hyn y byddem yn ei ddisgwyl.
Mae'n llygad ei le, mewn gwirionedd, i nodi mater ansicrwydd. Rydym yn clywed bob dydd yng Nghymru am yr effaith y mae Brexit eisoes yn ei chael ar fusnesau a chyflogwyr a bywoliaeth pobl ledled y wlad. Ond mae'r bydysawd amgen y mae'n sôn amdano yn un lle mae'r cytundeb hwn yn dda i fusnes, ac nid yw hynny'n wir. Ac mae'r syniad fod y cytundeb yn rhoi diwedd pendant i'r mater hwn yn ffuglen bur. Mae hwn yn gytundeb gwael ac mae'n rhoi sicrwydd i ni o fargen wael i fusnesau ledled Cymru. Rydym yn edrych ar gostau ychwanegol sylweddol i fusnesau bach sy'n allforio, costau nad ydynt prin yn gallu fforddio'u talu. Efallai y gall gadarnhau i mi a yw Llywodraeth y DU yn bwriadu eu digolledu am hynny. Ond fel arall, mae'r rhain yn feichiau sylweddol na all busnesau yng Nghymru fforddio gorfod eu hysgwyddo.
Uncertainty needs to end, yes, but for very many businesses, the very threat of Brexit needs to end. Let me read to you from an e-mail I've received from a constituent who runs a small consultancy from Anglesey, with the majority of the business's money coming from the European Union:
'The damage that Brexit so far has done to our business is significant',
he says,
'mainly due to the ill feeling that other countries feel towards the UK. We have been excluded from several projects because of risk or other such excuses. This is a real pity for what was a growing business providing income, tax and jobs in the area. Now we're stagnant and waiting for all this to pass so that we can resume growth.'
And he was asking for my reassurance that I'd campaign for 'remain'. I can certainly give him a categorical assurance on that front. But what countless companies like that can see is that the delays of a few months here or there aren't really what's relevant—it's that threat of what they lose from not being within the European Union, and there is no deal, they see, that is as good as the one that they have now.
Mae angen i'r ansicrwydd ddod i ben, oes, ond i lawer iawn o fusnesau, mae angen i fygythiad Brexit ynddo'i hun ddod i ben. Gadewch imi ddarllen rhan o e-bost a dderbyniais gan etholwr sy'n rhedeg cwmni ymgynghorol bach ar Ynys Môn, gyda'r rhan fwyaf o arian y busnes yn dod o'r Undeb Ewropeaidd:
Mae'r niwed y mae Brexit wedi'i wneud hyd yn hyn i'n busnes yn sylweddol,
meddai,
yn bennaf oherwydd y drwgdeimlad y mae gwledydd eraill yn ei deimlo tuag at y DU. Rydym wedi cael ein cau allan o sawl prosiect oherwydd risg neu esgusodion eraill o'r fath. Mae hyn yn drueni mawr i fusnes a oedd yn tyfu ac yn darparu incwm, trethi a swyddi yn yr ardal. Rydym bellach yn aros yn ein hunfan ac yn aros i hyn i gyd ddod i ben fel y gallwn ailddechrau tyfu.
Ac roedd yn gofyn am fy sicrwydd y buaswn yn ymgyrchu dros 'aros'. Yn sicr, gallaf roi sicrwydd pendant iddo o ran hynny. Ond yr hyn y gall cwmnïau dirifedi o'r fath ei weld yw nad yr oedi o ychydig fisoedd fan hyn fan draw yw'r hyn sy'n berthnasol mewn gwirionedd—ond y bygythiad o ran yr hyn a gollant o beidio â bod yn rhan o'r Undeb Ewropeaidd, ac fe welant nad oes yna gytundeb sydd cystal â'r un sydd ganddynt ar hyn o bryd.
I will, if I may, echo the points the Member has just made. I mean, his experience and the issues that his constituents have raised with him strike a very clear chord with what we hear from businesses all the time. It was only last week, I think, or the week before, that I had an e-mail from a leading figure of the business community saying the notion that the Boris Johnson deal is the solution to business uncertainty is complete fiction. And I think, and I share with the Member his conviction, that the best way of getting the certainty that businesses in Wales have been able to flourish under, as a consequence of our membership of the European Union, is for us to have a referendum where we can campaign to remain and win that argument.
Os caf, rwyf am adleisio'r pwyntiau y mae'r Aelod newydd eu gwneud. Hynny yw, mae ei brofiad a'r materion y mae ei etholwyr wedi'u codi gydag ef yn adleisio'r hyn a glywn gan fusnesau drwy'r amser. Yr wythnos diwethaf, rwy’n credu, neu’r wythnos cynt, cefais e-bost gan ffigwr blaenllaw yn y gymuned fusnes yn dweud bod y syniad fod cytundeb Boris Johnson yn ateb i ansicrwydd busnes yn ffuglen bur. Ac yn fy marn i, ac rwy'n rhannu argyhoeddiad yr Aelod, y ffordd orau o gael y sicrwydd hwnnw y mae busnesau yng Nghymru wedi gallu ffynnu oddi tano o ganlyniad i’n haelodaeth o’r Undeb Ewropeaidd, yw cael refferendwm lle gallwn ymgyrchu dros aros ac ennill y ddadl honno.
We now turn to spokespeople's questions, and first this afternoon is the Conservative spokesperson, Darren Millar.
Trown yn awr at gwestiynau'r llefarwyr, ac yn gyntaf y prynhawn yma mae llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Darren Millar.
Minister, will you outline the Welsh Government's position on Brexit?
Weinidog, a wnewch chi amlinellu safbwynt Llywodraeth Cymru ar Brexit?
The Welsh Government's position on Brexit is that any version of Brexit is a worse deal for Wales than remaining part of the European Union and that the only way that people in the UK can get their voice heard in this debate is to vote Labour at the next election and have a referendum, where we in Wales will campaign to remain.
Safbwynt Llywodraeth Cymru ar Brexit yw bod unrhyw fersiwn o Brexit yn gytundeb gwaeth i Gymru na pharhau i fod yn rhan o’r Undeb Ewropeaidd, ac mai’r unig ffordd y gall pobl yn y DU ddweud eu dweud yn y ddadl hon yw pleidleisio dros Lafur yn yr etholiad nesaf a chael refferendwm, lle byddwn ni yng Nghymru yn ymgyrchu dros aros.
I'm pleased to hear at least a consistent message coming from your mouth this time, because, of course, we've had all sorts of flip-flopping from the Welsh Government in recent months. Now, you've attempted there to articulate the UK Labour Party's position on Brexit, but the reality is that the UK Labour Party doesn't have a position on Brexit. What you've got is a position on holding a second referendum, because your leadership, the leadership of the UK Labour Party, doesn't have the bottle to actually say which way it will campaign in that referendum. Now, my party is very clear. We've got a policy to get Brexit done. Other parties, to be fair to them, are also very clear that they want to remain. But the UK Labour Party is doing the hokey cokey on this matter, with one foot in and one foot out on whether to leave or remain.
Now, Minister, I'm sure that you would agree with me that it's vital that the public know what the position of any future UK Government is on Brexit. So, do you agree with me that it's time for your colleagues in the UK Labour Party to come clean with the public, to set out a clear position on Brexit, and to give voters across Wales the opportunity to have their say on 12 December, knowing exactly what you stand for?
Rwy'n falch o glywed neges gyson yn dod o'ch ceg y tro hwn, o leiaf, oherwydd, wrth gwrs, rydym wedi clywed pob math o newid meddwl gan Lywodraeth Cymru dros y misoedd diwethaf. Nawr, rydych wedi ceisio mynegi safbwynt Plaid Lafur y DU ar Brexit, ond y gwir amdani yw nad oes gan Blaid Lafur y DU safbwynt ar Brexit. Yr hyn sydd gennych yw safbwynt ar gynnal ail refferendwm, gan nad yw eich arweinyddiaeth, arweinyddiaeth Plaid Lafur y DU, yn ddigon dewr i ddweud sut y byddant yn ymgyrchu yn y refferendwm hwnnw. Nawr, mae fy mhlaid yn glir iawn. Mae gennym bolisi i gyflawni Brexit. Mae pleidiau eraill, a bod yn deg iddynt, hefyd yn glir iawn eu bod yn dymuno aros. Ond mae Plaid Lafur y DU yn gwneud yr hoci coci ar hyn, gydag un droed i mewn ac un droed allan o ran gadael neu aros.
Nawr, Weinidog, rwy'n siŵr y byddech yn cytuno ei bod yn hanfodol fod y cyhoedd yn gwybod beth yw safbwynt unrhyw Lywodraeth yn y DU yn y dyfodol ar Brexit. Felly, a ydych yn cytuno ei bod yn bryd i'ch cymheiriaid ym Mhlaid Lafur y DU ddweud y gwir wrth y cyhoedd, nodi safbwynt clir ar Brexit, a rhoi cyfle i bleidleiswyr ledled Cymru ddweud eu dweud ar 12 Rhagfyr, gan wybod beth yn union rydych chi'n sefyll drosto?
I think this exchange is rather poignant really, and I think his interest in the politics of Westminster is particularly poignant. He mentions flip-flops—I should commiserate with him; he obviously knows first-hand the impact of the flip-flopping of his constituency colleague David Jones, and so I just commiserate with him about that. I'm sure that he has flip-flops and broken promises very much uppermost in his mind in these questions.
Credaf fod y sgwrs hon braidd yn drist mewn gwirionedd, a chredaf fod ei ddiddordeb yng ngwleidyddiaeth San Steffan yn arbennig o drist. Mae'n sôn am newid meddwl—dylwn gydymdeimlo ag ef; mae'n amlwg ei fod yn ymwybodol o effaith newid meddwl ei gyd-Aelod etholaethol David Jones, ac felly cydymdeimlaf ag ef ynglŷn â hynny. Rwy'n siŵr bod newid meddwl a thorri addewidion ar flaen ei feddwl yn y cwestiynau hyn.
I'm sorry, I didn't actually hear you set out the position of your party. But, look, here's the situation: the idea of a second referendum that your party is positing is absolutely absurd. Why would anybody expect the Labour Party to respect the result or outcome of a second referendum if you haven't respected the first? The truth is, and it's an inconvenient truth for you, I know, but Wales voted to leave the EU in the referendum on Brexit, including 57 per cent of your own constituents. Yet, in spite of this, you and many others in this Chamber have done everything you can to block the instruction that we have received from the people of Wales and the rest of the United Kingdom. So, you've got no respect for democracy, you've got no respect for those who voted to leave, and absolutely no intention of delivering what the people of Wales voted for.
So, I ask you this: how can anybody trust the Labour Party to deliver on the result of a second referendum if they haven't been bothered to support the outcome of the first?
Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, ni chlywais gennych beth yw safbwynt eich plaid. Ond edrychwch, dyma’r sefyllfa: mae’r syniad o ail refferendwm y mae eich plaid yn ei gynnig yn hollol hurt. Pam fyddai unrhyw un yn disgwyl i'r Blaid Lafur barchu canlyniad ail refferendwm os nad ydych wedi parchu'r cyntaf? Y gwirionedd yw, a gwn ei fod yn wirionedd anghyfleus i chi, ond pleidleisiodd Cymru i adael yr UE yn y refferendwm ar Brexit, gan gynnwys 57 y cant o'ch etholwyr eich hun. Ac eto, er hyn, rydych chi a llawer o bobl eraill yn y Siambr hon wedi gwneud popeth yn eich gallu i rwystro'r cyfarwyddyd a gawsom gan bobl Cymru a gweddill y Deyrnas Unedig. Felly, nid oes gennych unrhyw barch at ddemocratiaeth, nid oes gennych unrhyw barch at y rheini a bleidleisiodd i adael, ac nid oes bwriad o gwbl gennych i gyflawni'r hyn y pleidleisiodd pobl Cymru drosto.
Felly, gofynnaf i chi: sut y gall unrhyw un ymddiried yn y Blaid Lafur i gyflawni canlyniad ail refferendwm os nad ydynt wedi trafferthu cefnogi canlyniad y cyntaf?
And this from a party that campaigned in Westminster against the Assembly after the result of the referendum. I think it's quite extraordinary your position on this argument, Darren. Let me put it very simply for you—[Interruption.] I'm happy to answer the question; perhaps you can let me to do that. The policy of the Labour Party is one of respect to the electors of the United Kingdom, to whom promises were made, and promises have been broken, and they were largely broken by people who are running the Government of his party in Westminster. It is absolutely clear to us the only way of drawing a line under this—these three years of broken promises on the part of his party—is to give the British people an opportunity to have their say, and to have their say on the deal that Boris Johnson has brought back, which we are confident will be exposed as being a much worse outcome than remaining a member of the European Union.
A daw hyn gan blaid a ymgyrchodd yn San Steffan yn erbyn y Cynulliad ar ôl canlyniad y refferendwm. Credaf fod eich safbwynt ar y ddadl hon yn eithaf rhyfeddol, Darren. Gadewch imi ddweud wrthych yn syml iawn—[Torri ar draws.] Rwy'n fwy na pharod i ateb y cwestiwn; efallai y gallwch adael imi wneud hynny. Mae polisi'r Blaid Lafur yn un o barch at etholwyr y Deyrnas Unedig y gwnaed addewidion iddynt, addewidion a gafodd eu torri, a chawsant eu torri i raddau helaeth gan bobl sy'n rhedeg Llywodraeth ei blaid yn San Steffan. Mae'n gwbl amlwg i ni mai'r unig ffordd o dynnu llinell o dan hyn—tair blynedd o dorri addewidion gan ei blaid—yw rhoi cyfle i bobl Prydain ddweud eu dweud, ac i wneud hynny ar gytundeb Boris Johnson, ac rydym yn hyderus y dangosir ei fod yn ganlyniad llawer gwaeth na pharhau i fod yn aelod o'r Undeb Ewropeaidd.
The Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Delyth Jewell.
Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Delyth Jewell.
Diolch. Weinidog, hoffwn ofyn i chi ynghylch cynlluniau Llafur ar gyfer negodi cytundeb Brexit newydd. Rwy'n ymwybodol eich bod wedi bod ym Mrwsel yn ddiweddar yn cwrdd â chynrychiolwyr o'r Undeb Ewropeaidd. A allwch chi ddweud wrtha i os gwnaethoch chi gynnal trafodaethau gyda nhw ynglŷn â chynlluniau'ch plaid i negodi cytundeb newydd wedi ei seilio ar greu undeb dollau newydd? Ac a wnaethoch eu holi a fydden nhw'n barod i rhoi estyniad arall i erthygl 50 er mwyn caniatáu amser i negodi'r cytundeb hwn ac yna i alw refferendwm?
Thank you. Minister, I would like to ask you about the Labour Party’s plans for negotiating a new Brexit deal. Now, I’m aware that you’ve been in Brussels recently meeting with representatives of the European Union. Can you tell me whether you had any discussions with them about your party’s plan to negotiate a new deal based on creating a new customs union? And did you ask them whether they would be willing to allow another extension to article 50 in order to provide time to negotiate this deal and to then call a referendum?
Diolch am y cwestiwn. Roedd y cwestiwn o safbwynt Llywodraeth Cymru ar Brexit ar dop yr agenda, ac fe wnaethom ni'n glir bod ein Llywodraeth ni yma o blaid aros yn aelod o'r Undeb Ewropeaidd. Wrth gwrs, roedd pobl roeddwn i'n cwrdd â nhw yn disgwyl i fi ddweud hynny. Wnaethon ni ddim trafod, wrth gwrs, mewn manylder y cwestiwn o'r math o gytundeb y byddem ni'n ei negodi. Ond, ar achlysuron ac ymweliadau arall yn y gorffennol, rŷn ni wedi cyflwyno iddyn nhw ddogfen 'Securing Wales' Future', sydd wedi ei chytuno ar y cyd â Phlaid Cymru, ac felly mae ganddyn nhw ddarlun clir o'r math o Brexit, pe baem ni'n gorfod gadael, rŷn ni'n meddwl y byddai'n gwneud y lleiaf o niwed i ni yma yng Nghymru.
Thank you for the question. The question of the Welsh Government’s position on Brexit was at the top of the agenda and we made it clear that our Government here was in favour of remaining a member of the European Union. Of course, the people we were meeting were expecting me to say that. We didn’t discuss, of course, in detail the question of what sort of agreement we would negotiate. But, on other visits and other occasions in the past, we have presented to them the ‘Securing Wales’ Future’ document, which was agreed jointly with Plaid Cymru, and so they have a clear picture of the kind of Brexit that, if we had to leave, we think would cause the least damage here in Wales.
Diolch am yr ateb yna. Hoffwn ofyn, o ganlyniad, a fydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn cynnal asesiad effaith economaidd o effaith debygol bargen newydd Jeremy Corbyn ar economi a phorthladdoedd Cymru. Wrth gwrs, does dim llawer o fanylion penodol ynglŷn ag union natur y cytundeb hwn ar gael yn gyhoeddus, ond rwy'n cymryd, fel Gweinidog Llafur mewn Llywodraeth Lafur, eich bod yn gwybod union fwriad eich plaid o ran y cytundeb newydd rydych eisiau ei negodi. Byddwch yn ymwybodol bod Michael Gove wedi dweud wrthyf fi nad yw'r Llywodraeth Brydeinig bresennol wedi cynnal asesiadau effaith ar gyfer porthladdoedd Cymru chwaith, sy'n bryderus iawn o ystyried pwysigrwydd porthladd Caergybi yn enwedig. Allwch chi gadarnhau, felly, mai bwriad eich Llywodraeth fyddai cynnal asesiadau manwl o effaith bargen Brexit Jeremy Corbyn ar economi a phorthladdoedd Cymru, o flaen unrhyw refferendwm, os yw'ch plaid mewn llywodraeth ar ôl yr etholiad?
Thank you. I would like to ask as a result of that whether the Welsh Government will carry out an economic impact assessment of a new deal negotiated by Jeremy Corbyn on the economy and ports of Wales. Of course, there’s not much detail about the nature of this available at the moment, but I assume that, as a Labour Minister in a Labour Government, you know your party’s intentions in terms of the deal that you want to negotiate. You will be aware that Michael Gove told me that the current UK Government hasn’t conducted an impact assessment for Welsh ports, which is hugely concerning given the importance of the port of Holyhead particularly. Can you confirm, therefore, that it’s your Government’s intention to conduct detailed impact assessments of the Jeremy Corbyn deal on the Welsh economy and Welsh ports before any referendum, if your party is in government after the election?
Wel, dwi ddim yn siarad ar ran Jeremy Corbyn, nac unrhyw aelod arall o'r meinciau yn San Steffan, ond rwy'n gallu siarad ar ran Llywodraeth Cymru ar y cwestiwn yma. Mae'r broses rŷn ni wedi ymwneud â hi, o'r cychwyn cyntaf, wedi bod yn un yn seiliedig ar dystiolaeth a ffeithiau a gwybodaeth byd go iawn, yn hytrach na sloganau a gobeithion. Ac rwy'n falch ein bod ni wedi llwyddo, gyda Phlaid Cymru, i gyhoeddi dogfen sy'n cynnwys y dystiolaeth hynny. Ond bydd yr Aelod yn gwybod, wrth gwrs, ar ôl hynny, ein bod ni wedi cyhoeddi sawl papur arall sy'n dangos impact o bob mathau—economaidd ac eraill—o safbwyntiau polisi Llywodraeth Cymru yn ymwneud â Brexit.
I’m not talking on behalf of Jeremy Corbyn, or any other member of the benches in Westminster, but I can speak on behalf of the Welsh Government on this question. The process that we have been involved in from the very beginning has been one based on evidence and facts and information from the real world, rather than slogans and hopes. And I’m pleased that we’ve managed to publish, with Plaid Cymru, a document that includes that evidence. The Member will know that, since then, we have published a number of other papers that show all sorts of impacts—economic and otherwise—of the Welsh Government's policy position on Brexit.
Finally, Minister, I want to turn to the news that Alun Cairns has finally resigned as Secretary of State for Wales, following revelations he helped to cover up for an ally who deliberately sabotaged a rape trial. I'm sure you'll agree with me that Alun Cairns's actions were disgraceful, indefensible and indicative of a deep rot at the heart of the Conservative Party in Wales. It's quite apparent that Alun Cairns, and other senior members of the Conservative Party in Wales, were aware of what Ross England had done before they selected and endorsed him as their candidate. And I'd be interested to know whether you agree with me that an inquiry needs to take place to ascertain who knew what and when—
Yn olaf, Weinidog, rwyf am droi at y newyddion fod Alun Cairns wedi ymddiswyddo o'r diwedd fel Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, yn dilyn y newyddion ei fod wedi helpu i gynorthwyo ffrind a danseiliodd achos llys ar drais yn fwriadol. Rwy'n siŵr eich bod yn cytuno â mi fod ymddygiad Alun Cairns yn warthus, yn anamddiffynadwy ac yn arwydd o bydredd dwfn wrth wraidd y Blaid Geidwadol yng Nghymru. Mae'n eithaf amlwg fod Alun Cairns, ac uwch aelodau eraill o'r Blaid Geidwadol yng Nghymru, yn ymwybodol o'r hyn roedd Ross England wedi'i wneud cyn iddynt ei ddewis a'i gymeradwyo fel eu hymgeisydd. A hoffwn wybod a fyddech yn cytuno fod angen cynnal ymchwiliad i ddarganfod pwy oedd yn gwybod beth a phryd—
These are questions to the Counsel General about Brexit.
Cwestiynau i'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol ynghylch Brexit yw'r rhain.
—and that everyone in a position of power implicated in that scandal should resign. In terms—
—ac y dylai pawb mewn sefyllfa o bŵer sy'n gysylltiedig â'r sgandal honno ymddiswyddo. O ran—
Sorry. No, your mike is off. Sorry, Delyth, your mike is off. These are questions about Brexit; it is not about anything that may have been said over the Twitter for that. It's about Brexit. You started off okay, but I think you've strayed off, so if you can relate it to a Brexit question, that would be fine.
Mae'n ddrwg gennyf. Na, mae eich meicroffon wedi'i ddiffodd. Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, Delyth, mae eich meicroffon wedi'i ddiffodd. Cwestiynau am Brexit yw'r rhain; nid ydynt yn ymwneud ag unrhyw beth a allai fod wedi'i ddweud am hynny ar Twitter. Mae'n ymwneud â Brexit. Fe ddechreuoch chi'n iawn, ond credaf eich bod wedi crwydro, felly os gallwch ei gysylltu â chwestiwn am Brexit, byddai hynny'n iawn.
Okay. In terms of your duties as Brexit Minister, I'd like to ask you how Alun Cairns's resignation will affect your Government's workings with the UK Government? Do you expect them to appoint a replacement as Secretary of State for Wales ahead of the election, in terms of the duties that he had on the JMC(EN)? And does this leave inter-governmental workings, in terms of Brexit preparations, at any kind of impasse?
Iawn. O ran eich dyletswyddau fel Gweinidog Brexit, hoffwn ofyn i chi sut y bydd ymddiswyddiad Alun Cairns yn effeithio ar waith eich Llywodraeth gyda Llywodraeth y DU? A ydych yn disgwyl iddynt benodi rhywun yn ei le fel Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru cyn yr etholiad, o ran y dyletswyddau a oedd ganddo ar y Cyd-bwyllgor Gweinidogion (Negodiadau’r UE)? Ac a yw hyn yn creu anawsterau mewn unrhyw fodd i waith rhynglywodraethol mewn perthynas â pharatoadau Brexit?
In the context of Brexit questions, I won't be drawn on the broader point, but I think the First Minister has made our position clear in relation to matters surrounding the former Secretary of State for Wales. In relation to questions of relevance to Brexit, in my experience, the place where we have made most progress in discussions with the UK Government is where we have been able to deal with them directly. Even then, it has been a significant challenge in many, many ways. But it is evidently the case that those direct contacts are the best way of protecting Wales's interests into the future.
Yng nghyd-destun cwestiynau am Brexit, nid wyf am roi sylw i'r pwynt ehangach, ond credaf fod y Prif Weinidog wedi egluro ein safbwynt yn glir mewn perthynas â materion sy'n ymwneud â chyn Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru. Mewn perthynas â chwestiynau sy'n berthnasol i Brexit, yn fy mhrofiad i, y man lle rydym wedi gwneud y cynnydd mwyaf mewn trafodaethau â Llywodraeth y DU yw lle rydym wedi gallu ymdrin â hwy'n uniongyrchol. Hyd yn oed wedyn, mae wedi bod yn her sylweddol mewn nifer fawr o ffyrdd. Ond mae'n amlwg yn wir mai'r cysylltiadau uniongyrchol hynny yw'r ffordd orau o amddiffyn buddiannau Cymru yn y dyfodol.
4. A wnaiff y Cwnsler Cyffredinol ddatganiad am yr effaith y bydd oedi pellach i gytundeb Brexit yn ei chael ar Orllewin Caerfyrddin a De Sir Benfro? OAQ54642
4. Will the Counsel General make a statement on the impact that a further delay to a Brexit deal being passed will have on Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire? OAQ54642
The flextension to 31 January means a disastrous 'no deal' Brexit has been avoided or at least postponed. Economically, it means the maintenance of the status quo. It also provides the opportunity to reject Boris Johnson’s hard Brexit deal and put the decision back to the people.
Mae'r estyniad hyblyg hyd at 31 Ionawr yn golygu bod Brexit digytundeb trychinebus wedi'i osgoi, neu ei ohirio o leiaf. Yn economaidd, mae hynny'n golygu cynnal y status quo. Mae hefyd yn rhoi cyfle i wrthod cytundeb Brexit caled Boris Johnson a rhoi’r penderfyniad yn ôl i’r bobl.
I had a feeling you'd probably say something along those lines, Counsel General, so I'm glad I'm not disappointed. Of course, I think, ultimately we all hear what we want to hear, and I'd like to tell you what farmers in my constituency are saying to me, because they need and want certainty surrounding Brexit, and I know from the many conversations that I've had, they want a deal done. One way or another, they want a deal done so they have certainty, so that they can plan for the future. Yet, last month, in Westminster, the Labour Party voted against approving the Conservative Government's new deal, which they had struck with agreement with the EU, which seemed to be supported by quite a wide variety of different organisations, different sectors of industry, farmers, and so on. And the policy of the Welsh Government seems to be to have a second referendum. What guarantee can you give my farmers in Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire that if you did go and have that second referendum, you would actually bother to implement the result?
Roedd gennyf deimlad y byddech chi'n dweud rhywbeth tebyg i hynny, Gwnsler Cyffredinol, felly rwy'n falch na chefais fy siomi. Wrth gwrs, yn y pen draw, credaf fod pob un ohonom yn clywed yr hyn rydym am ei glywed, a hoffwn ddweud wrthych beth y mae ffermwyr yn fy etholaeth yn ei ddweud wrthyf, gan eu bod yn dymuno cael ac angen sicrwydd ynglŷn â Brexit, ac o'r nifer o sgyrsiau rwyf wedi'u cael, gwn eu bod yn awyddus i gael cytundeb. Rywsut neu'i gilydd, maent am gael cytundeb er mwyn cael sicrwydd fel y gallant gynllunio ar gyfer y dyfodol. Ac eto, y mis diwethaf, yn San Steffan, pleidleisiodd y Blaid Lafur yn erbyn cymeradwyo cytundeb newydd y Llywodraeth Geidwadol, cytundeb a wnaethant gyda’r UE, ac a oedd i'w weld yn ennyn cefnogaeth amrywiaeth eithaf eang o wahanol sefydliadau, gwahanol sectorau diwydiannol, ffermwyr, ac yn y blaen. Ac ymddengys mai polisi Llywodraeth Cymru yw cael ail refferendwm. Pa warant y gallwch ei rhoi i fy ffermwyr yng Ngorllewin Caerfyrddin a De Sir Benfro, pe baech yn cynnal ail refferendwm, y byddech yn trafferthu cyflawni'r canlyniad?
I thank the Member for acknowledging the consistency of my approach at the start of her question. I have farmers discussing their concerns with me as well, and the concerns they ask me are about what certainty do they have of replacement funding from the UK Government for the support they get at the moment. What funding can we secure for regional investment in Wales from the UK Government to replace the support we are able to provide them at the moment? Unfortunately, the position, I have to say to them, is that, despite the sunny slogans of Boris Johnson, in terms of the hard reality, I cannot give them the assurance that they want. The reason for that is that the UK Government has been completely neglectful of the agricultural sector as a significant part of our economy, despite the headline-grabbing statements that we sometimes see. So, that is the reality and that is what farmers are saying to me, and I'm surprised that farmers in her constituency aren't also saying to her that they are concerned the UK Government isn't living up to its responsibilities.
Diolch i'r Aelod am gydnabod cysondeb fy ymagwedd ar ddechrau ei chwestiwn. Mae gennyf ffermwyr sy'n trafod eu pryderon gyda minnau hefyd, ac mae eu pryderon yn ymwneud â pha sicrwydd a gânt o gyllid gan Lywodraeth y DU yn lle'r gefnogaeth a gânt ar hyn o bryd. Pa gyllid y gallwn ei sicrhau ar gyfer buddsoddi rhanbarthol yng Nghymru gan Lywodraeth y DU yn lle'r gefnogaeth y gallwn ei darparu iddynt ar hyn o bryd? Yn anffodus, mae'n rhaid imi ddweud wrthynt mai'r sefyllfa mewn gwirionedd, er gwaethaf sloganau gobeithiol Boris Johnson, yw na allaf roi'r sicrwydd y maent yn dymuno'i gael. Y rheswm am hynny yw bod Llywodraeth y DU wedi esgeuluso'r sector amaethyddol yn llwyr fel rhan arwyddocaol o'n heconomi, er gwaethaf y datganiadau a welwn weithiau yn y penawdau. Felly, dyna'r realiti, a dyna y mae ffermwyr yn ei ddweud wrthyf, ac rwy'n synnu nad yw ffermwyr yn ei hetholaeth hi'n dweud wrthi eu bod yn poeni nad yw Llywodraeth y DU yn cyflawni ei chyfrifoldebau.
Minister, the constituents of Angela Burns clearly highlighted the concerns over a possible delay, but what are your considerations for those same constituents if this deal goes through and we have 11 months to negotiate a free trade agreement, which is unlikely? Everybody other than Michael Gove seems to think that's impossible, and he's adamant that they will not seek an extension to any transition period, which means there'll be a 'no deal' exit on 31 December next year. What are the implications for those constituents if that happens?
Weinidog, nododd etholwyr Angela Burns y pryderon ynghylch oedi posibl, ond beth yw eich ystyriaethau ar gyfer yr etholwyr hynny os caiff y cytundeb hwn ei dderbyn a bod gennym 11 mis i negodi cytundeb masnach rydd, sy'n annhebygol? Ymddengys bod pawb heblaw Michael Gove o'r farn fod hynny'n amhosibl, ac mae e'n bendant na fyddant yn gofyn am estyniad i unrhyw gyfnod pontio, sy'n golygu y byddwn yn gadael heb gytundeb ar 31 Rhagfyr y flwyddyn nesaf. Beth yw'r goblygiadau i'r etholwyr hynny os bydd hynny'n digwydd?
Well, I think the Member makes a very important point there. Although 31 January gives some confidence in relation to an imminent 'no deal', the point he makes is at the heart of the weakness in the deal that Boris Johnson has brought back from the European Union, which is that there is no certainty that we are not simply looking at a deferred 'no deal' exit. And we know what damage that will cause to the farming sector, to various sectors of our economy and our communities at large. I share with him his scepticism that the kind of free trade agreement—unless it's extremely minimalist—that he describes in the political declaration can be achieved within that period, even on his own terms. Again, if we just look at the UK Government's own figures here, even if those trade agreements are possible to put in place, the advantage that brings to the UK economy is absolutely dwarfed by the damage that that sort of relationship with the European Union would pose to our economy into the future.
Wel, credaf fod yr Aelod yn gwneud pwynt pwysig iawn. Er bod 31 Ionawr yn rhoi rhywfaint o hyder inni mewn perthynas â Brexit heb gytundeb yn y dyfodol agos, mae'r pwynt a wna yn mynd at wraidd y gwendid yng nghytundeb Boris Johnson gyda'r Undeb Ewropeaidd, sef na cheir unrhyw sicrwydd nad ydym yn sôn am Brexit heb gytundeb gohiriedig. A gwyddom pa ddifrod y bydd hynny'n ei achosi i'r sector ffermio, i wahanol sectorau o'n heconomi a'n cymunedau yn gyffredinol. Rhannaf ei amheuaeth y gellir cyflawni'r math o gytundeb masnach rydd—oni bai ei fod yn hynod o gyfyngedig—y mae'n ei ddisgrifio yn y datganiad gwleidyddol o fewn y cyfnod hwnnw, hyd yn oed ar ei delerau ei hun. Unwaith eto, os edrychwn ar ffigurau Llywodraeth y DU, hyd yn oed os oes modd rhoi'r cytundebau masnach hynny ar waith, nid yw'r fantais i economi'r DU yn sgil hynny yn ddim o gymharu â'r niwed y byddai perthynas o'r fath â'r Undeb Ewropeaidd yn ei wneud i'n heconomi yn y dyfodol.
5. Pa drafodaethau y mae'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol wedi'u cael gyda'r Gweinidog Addysg ynghylch cyfranogiad parhaus myfyrwyr o Gymru yn rhaglen Erasmus+ ar ôl Brexit? OAQ54639
5. What discussions has the Counsel General had with the Minister for Education about the continuing participation of students from Wales in the Erasmus+ programme following Brexit? OAQ54639
In addition to regular discussions on this and related issues at Cabinet sub-committee, I've met with the Minister for Education separately on a number of occasions to discuss the potential impacts of Brexit on the Erasmus+ programme.
Yn ogystal â thrafodaethau rheolaidd ar hyn a materion cysylltiedig yn is-bwyllgor y Cabinet, rwyf wedi cyfarfod â'r Gweinidog Addysg ar wahân ar sawl achlysur i drafod effeithiau posibl Brexit ar raglen Erasmus+.
Thank you, Counsel General. As you will know, Welsh learners have really benefited from Erasmus+, with over €40 billion being brought into Wales between 2014 and 2018 to support over 7,000 participants in 245 projects. I know the EU Commission has suggested that, for the cycle starting in 2021, the scheme will become global in scope, but, as with so much else, the uncertainty caused by Brexit means that there are question marks around future Welsh and UK participation. What discussions have you had around the continued participation of Welsh learners, for whom the experience can be life changing, and, in particular, around enabling vocational learners to access these opportunities?
Diolch, Gwnsler Cyffredinol. Fel y gwyddoch, mae dysgwyr o Gymru wedi elwa’n fawr o Erasmus+, gyda dros €40 biliwn yn dod i Gymru rhwng 2014 a 2018 i gefnogi dros 7,000 o gyfranogwyr mewn 245 o brosiectau. Gwn fod Comisiwn yr UE wedi awgrymu, ar gyfer y cylch a fydd yn cychwyn yn 2021, y bydd cwmpas y cynllun yn dod yn fyd-eang, ond fel gyda chymaint o bethau eraill, mae'r ansicrwydd a berir gan Brexit yn golygu bod marciau cwestiwn ynghylch cyfranogiad Cymru a'r DU yn y dyfodol. Pa drafodaethau rydych wedi'u cael ynghylch cyfranogiad parhaus dysgwyr o Gymru, y gall y profiad hwn newid eu bywydau, ac yn benodol, ynghylch galluogi dysgwyr galwedigaethol i gael mynediad at y cyfleoedd hyn?
This is a really important point, so I thank you for raising this. It was on 16 October that I met—courtesy of Colegau Cymru, who I thank for arranging this—a group of vocational learners from across south Wales who had benefitted from participating in Erasmus+ placements, and I heard at first hand about the benefits of that programme, which they described in their own lives and in their own workplaces. It was about building confidence, about personal development, about learning different perspectives on the world and the world of work, building relationships with people in other countries, and also taking back to their own workplaces new ideas and fresh ways of looking at things. All of them were clear that this was not the sort of thing that they would otherwise have been able to take advantage of in their own lives.
She talks about the future scoping of the replacement Erasmus scheme, and it strikes exactly the kind of priorities that we would wish to see: supporting disadvantaged learners into Erasmus, part-time learners, and a more global scope in many other ways. Those are exactly the kinds of things that I'm sure we would all want to see our young people in Wales being able to participate in fully.
I know that the Minister for Education has been advocating for this position with the UK Government from the outset, and I believe that, more recently, we've had some confidence, if we can't participate in the Erasmus replacement scheme into the future, which remains our priority, that the UK Government has a UK-wide scheme in mind. But the fundamental point, coming back to the point that I made earlier, is that the Treasury has to commit funding in order for that to happen, and, without that funding, it will not be able to be a reality.
Mae hwn yn bwynt pwysig iawn, felly diolch i chi am ei godi. Ar 16 Hydref, cyfarfûm—drwy garedigrwydd Colegau Cymru, a diolch iddynt am drefnu hyn—â grŵp o ddysgwyr galwedigaethol o bob rhan o dde Cymru a oedd wedi elwa o gymryd rhan mewn lleoliadau Erasmus+, a chlywais o lygad y ffynnon am fanteision y rhaglen honno, a ddisgrifiwyd ganddynt yn eu bywydau eu hunain ac yn eu gweithleoedd eu hunain. Roedd yn ymwneud â magu hyder, datblygiad personol, dysgu am wahanol safbwyntiau ar y byd a byd gwaith, meithrin perthynas â phobl mewn gwledydd eraill, yn ogystal â mynd â syniadau newydd a ffyrdd newydd o edrych ar bethau yn ôl i'w gweithleoedd eu hunain. Roedd pob un ohonynt yn sicr nad oedd hyn yn rhywbeth y byddent wedi gallu manteisio arno fel arall yn eu bywydau eu hunain.
Mae hi'n sôn am gwmpas y cynllun newydd yn lle cynllun Erasmus yn y dyfodol, ac mae'n mynd i'r afael â'r union fath o flaenoriaethau yr hoffem eu gweld: cynorthwyo dysgwyr difreintiedig i gymryd rhan yn rhaglen Erasmus, dysgwyr rhan-amser, a chwmpas mwy byd-eang mewn sawl ffordd arall. Dyna'r union fathau o bethau rwy'n siŵr y byddai pob un ohonom am weld ein pobl ifanc yng Nghymru yn gallu cymryd rhan lawn ynddynt.
Gwn fod y Gweinidog Addysg wedi bod yn dadlau dros hyn gyda Llywodraeth y DU o'r cychwyn cyntaf, a chredaf ein bod, yn fwy diweddar, wedi cael rhywfaint o hyder, os na allwn gymryd rhan yn y cynllun newydd yn lle cynllun Erasmus yn y dyfodol, rhywbeth sy'n parhau i fod yn flaenoriaeth gennym, fod gan Lywodraeth y DU gynllun mewn golwg ar gyfer y DU gyfan. Ond y pwynt sylfaenol, gan ddychwelyd at y pwynt a wneuthum yn gynharach, yw bod yn rhaid i'r Trysorlys ymrwymo cyllid er mwyn i hynny ddigwydd, a heb yr arian hwnnw, ni fydd modd ei wireddu.
6. Pa drafodaethau y mae'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol wedi'u cael gyda chymheiriaid yn Llywodraeth y DU ynghylch tracio troseddau trawsffiniol ar ôl Brexit? OAQ54637
6. What discussions has the Counsel General had with counterparts in the UK Government regarding tracking cross-border crime following Brexit? OAQ54637
I myself last discussed matters relating to the future security partnership at the February meeting of the ministerial forum. Nowhere else in the world has the level of close multilateral co-operation in relation to law enforcement and judicial matters that exists between EU member states, and that co-operation must continue even if the UK leaves the European Union.
Y tro diwethaf i mi drafod materion sy'n ymwneud â'r bartneriaeth ddiogelwch yn y dyfodol oedd yng nghyfarfod y fforwm gweinidogol ym mis Chwefror. Nid oes gan unrhyw le arall yn y byd yr un lefel o gydweithredu amlochrog agos mewn perthynas â gorfodi'r gyfraith a materion barnwrol â'r hyn sy'n bodoli rhwng aelod-wladwriaethau'r UE, ac mae'n rhaid i'r cydweithredu hwnnw barhau hyd yn oed os yw'r DU yn gadael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd.
Thank you, Counsel General, for that answer. Following the horrendous deaths of 39 Vietnamese migrants in Essex last month, a number of senior MPs and experts have cautioned that the UK faces a real risk of being excluded from Europol and its agencies, including the anti-trafficking unit and the European Migrant Smuggling Centre, post Brexit. They went on to say that, even with a deal, the UK would have downgraded access to those organisations.
The UK's right to access and share information on a whole host of security issues like human trafficking and international crime could be severely hampered at a time when international co-operation is needed the most. Being excluded from an organisation that has an unrivalled ability to track crimes across Europe and beyond is of grave concern. So, Minister, what discussions have you had with the Westminster Government—or will you have when it returns—about how they intend to maintain access to all those agencies that I've just mentioned, especially now, when we're in such turbulent times internationally?
Diolch am eich ateb, Gwnsler Cyffredinol. Yn dilyn marwolaethau erchyll 39 o fudwyr o Fiet-nam yn Essex y mis diwethaf, mae nifer o uwch ASau ac arbenigwyr wedi rhybuddio bod y DU yn wynebu risg wirioneddol o gael ei heithrio o Europol a'u hasiantaethau, gan gynnwys yr uned atal masnachu pobl a Chanolfan Smyglo Mudwyr Ewrop, ar ôl Brexit. Aethant yn eu blaenau i ddweud y byddai mynediad y DU at y sefydliadau hynny, hyd yn oed gyda chytundeb, yn cael ei israddio.
Gallai hawl y DU i gyrchu a rhannu gwybodaeth am lu o faterion diogelwch fel masnachu pobl a throseddau rhyngwladol gael ei llesteirio'n ddifrifol ar adeg pan fo mwy o angen nag erioed am gydweithredu rhyngwladol. Mae cael eich eithrio o sefydliad sydd â gallu dihafal i olrhain troseddau ledled Ewrop a thu hwnt yn achos pryder mawr. Felly, Weinidog, pa drafodaethau a gawsoch gyda Llywodraeth San Steffan—neu y byddwch yn eu cael ar ôl iddi ddychwelyd—ynglŷn â sut y bwriadant gynnal mynediad at yr holl asiantaethau rwyf newydd eu crybwyll, yn enwedig nawr, a ninnau mewn cyfnod mor gythryblus yn rhyngwladol?
Well, I'll reassure the Member that it's exactly that kind of close engagement and involvement into the future with the various Europe-wide law enforcement bodies and agencies—. It's exactly that kind of relationship that I was advocating in that ministerial forum and I and other Ministers have continued to press for in the interim period. As she says, whether it is Europol or Schengen, the SIS II system, whether it is about sharing passenger name records or criminal records, there is a multiplicity of EU-wide law enforcement and security arrangements from which we benefit at the moment, and from which exclusion will have a real impact on us and on our security.
Now, of course, the ambition that the UK Government has is to negotiate the best available relationships with those organisations after Brexit. But the reality is that there are several obstacles in the path of those negotiations delivering the same level of engagement and involvement that we currently have, not least amongst them the question of the UK's data adequacy. All of this is shared data, and, as we know in this Chamber, if we become a third country, we'll have to restart a process of qualifying to access data of any sort. It's a major stumbling block. As a non-Schengen third country our access to a number of these arrangements will, even at best, be depleted.
And there's a third dimension here as well, which is that many of them require a level playing field in terms of human rights protection, and losing the benefit and the shelter of the EU charter and fundamental rights may itself pose an obstacle to getting the kind of arrangements we would want to see in place in those negotiations.
Wel, gallaf roi sicrwydd i'r Aelod mai dyna'r union fath o ymwneud ac ymgysylltu agos yr hoffem ei gael yn y dyfodol gyda'r gwahanol gyrff ac asiantaethau gorfodi'r gyfraith ledled Ewrop—. Dyna'r union fath o berthynas roeddwn yn dadlau drosti yn y fforwm gweinidogol hwnnw ac rwyf fi a Gweinidogion eraill wedi parhau i bwyso amdani yn y cyfamser. Fel y dywed, boed yn Europol neu'n Schengen, system SIS II, boed yn ymwneud â rhannu cofnodion enwau teithwyr neu gofnodion troseddol, mae llu o drefniadau gorfodi'r gyfraith a diogelwch ledled yr UE rydym yn elwa arnynt ar hyn o bryd, a bydd cael ein heithrio rhagddynt yn cael effaith wirioneddol arnom ni a'n diogelwch.
Nawr, wrth gwrs, uchelgais Llywodraeth y DU yw negodi'r berthynas orau sy'n bosibl gyda'r sefydliadau hyn ar ôl Brexit. Ond y gwir amdani yw bod y negodiadau hynny'n wynebu sawl rhwystr o ran sicrhau'r un lefel o ymwneud ac ymgysylltiad ag sydd gennym ar hyn o bryd, yn enwedig y cwestiwn ynghylch digonolrwydd data'r DU. Mae hwn oll yn ddata a rennir, ac fel y gwyddom yn y Siambr hon, pe baem yn dod yn drydedd gwlad, byddai angen inni ailgychwyn proses gymhwyso er mwyn cael mynediad at ddata o unrhyw fath. Mae'n faen tramgwydd mawr. Fel trydedd gwlad nad yw'n wlad Schengen, byddai ein mynediad at nifer o'r trefniadau hyn, hyd yn oed ar y gorau, yn cael ei leihau.
Ac mae trydedd agwedd i hyn hefyd, sef bod llawer ohonynt yn mynnu cyfartalwch o ran amddiffyn hawliau dynol, a gallai colli budd ac amddiffyniad siarter yr UE a hawliau sylfaenol fod yn rhwystr ynddo'i hun rhag sicrhau'r math o drefniadau y byddem am eu cael ar waith yn y negodiadau hynny.
7. Pa fesurau y mae'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol yn eu cymryd cyn Brexit i ddiogelu economi Cymru? OAQ54635
7. What measures is the Counsel General taking ahead of Brexit to safeguard the Welsh economy? OAQ54635
Whilst we believe the best way to safeguard the Welsh economy is to remain in the European Union, the Welsh Government is doing everything in our power to safeguard the Welsh economy. This includes using measures such as our Brexit resilience fund, where we announced an additional £6 million funding for this week.
Er ein bod yn credu mai'r ffordd orau o ddiogelu economi Cymru yw aros yn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwneud popeth yn ein gallu i ddiogelu economi Cymru. Mae hyn yn cynnwys defnyddio mesurau fel ein cronfa cydnerthedd Brexit, y cyhoeddasom gyllid ychwanegol o £6 miliwn ar ei chyfer yr wythnos hon.
Counsel General, a lot of the economic activity in Wales consists of the work of small and medium-sized enterprises, and I believe they're crucial to our economy. They face a lot of cash-flow and confidence pressures in the light of Brexit and what Brexit may bring. I believe a crucial support for them is the Development Bank of Wales, so, could you offer some reassurance today that that development bank is best placed to offer that support, crucial support, to our SMEs before and post Brexit?
Gwnsler Cyffredinol, gwaith busnesau bach a chanolig eu maint yw llawer o'r gweithgarwch economaidd yng Nghymru, a chredaf eu bod yn hanfodol i'n heconomi. Maent yn wynebu llawer o bwysau o ran llif arian a hyder oherwydd Brexit a'r hyn a allai ddigwydd yn sgil Brexit. Credaf y gall Banc Datblygu Cymru ddarparu cymorth hanfodol iddynt, felly a allech roi sicrwydd i ni heddiw fod y banc datblygu yn y sefyllfa orau i gynnig y cymorth hanfodol hwnnw i’n busnesau bach a chanolig cyn ac ar ôl Brexit?
Yes. I thank the Member for that supplementary. The role that the Development Bank of Wales can play, in particular in engaging with the small and medium-sized business community, is going to be absolutely essential in a post-Brexit world, if that is what comes to pass. Obviously, the Minister for Economy and Transport has significant dealings with the bank. I myself have met with the chair and the chief executive to discuss their arrangements around preparedness and the redeployment of staff if we were to come to that situation.
He says that cash flow and confidence are likely to be two issues that hamper businesses generally, and I agree with that. The Minister for Economy and Transport announced £100 million of capital for the Wales flexible investment fund, which is managed by the Development Bank of Wales, and earlier this year announced more than £120 million further funding for various funds that are manged by the development bank, and the whole point of those is to make funding available in a way that is flexible and appropriate for the particular needs that businesses may have in a post-Brexit world.
We've been clear as a Welsh Government, and we've been clear in pressing the UK Government of this view, that, if we come to that situation, it's incumbent on us to do all that we can to support businesses that can be viable into the medium term, if you like, to get over what will be, inevitably, a very turbulent time. We have not persuaded the UK Government of that view, but that remains very firmly our view.
Of course, we hope for a situation where we have a referendum and a campaign to remain that succeeds, where this risk to those businesses is eliminated. But we have to prepare for a situation in which that doesn't come to pass.
Gallaf. Diolch i'r Aelod am ei gwestiwn atodol. Bydd y rôl y gall Banc Datblygu Cymru ei chwarae, yn enwedig wrth ymgysylltu â chymuned y busnesau bach a chanolig, yn gwbl hanfodol mewn byd ôl-Brexit, os daw pethau i hynny. Yn amlwg, mae Gweinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth yn ymwneud cryn dipyn â'r banc. Rwyf innau wedi cyfarfod â'r cadeirydd a'r prif weithredwr i drafod eu trefniadau ynghylch parodrwydd ac adleoli staff pe bai angen.
Dywed fod llif arian a hyder yn debygol o fod yn ddau beth sy'n llesteirio busnesau yn gyffredinol, ac rwy'n cytuno. Mae Gweinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth wedi cyhoeddi £100 miliwn o gyfalaf ar gyfer cronfa buddsoddi hyblyg Cymru, a reolir gan Fanc Datblygu Cymru, ac yn gynharach eleni, cyhoeddodd fwy na £120 miliwn o gyllid pellach ar gyfer gwahanol gronfeydd a reolir gan y banc datblygu, a holl bwynt y rheini yw sicrhau bod cyllid ar gael mewn ffordd sy'n hyblyg ac yn briodol ar gyfer yr anghenion penodol a allai fod gan fusnesau mewn byd ôl-Brexit.
Rydym wedi dweud yn glir fel Llywodraeth Cymru, ac rydym wedi bod yn glir wrth gyfleu'r safbwynt hwn i Lywodraeth y DU, os wynebwn y sefyllfa honno, fod yn rhaid inni wneud popeth yn ein gallu i gefnogi busnesau a all fod hyfyw i mewn i'r tymor canolig, os mynnwch, i oroesi'r hyn a fydd, yn anochel, yn gyfnod cythryblus iawn. Nid ydym wedi perswadio Llywodraeth y DU ynglŷn â hynny, ond dyna yw ein safbwynt pendant ni o hyd.
Wrth gwrs, rydym yn gobeithio am sefyllfa lle cawn refferendwm ac ymgyrch i aros sy'n llwyddo, lle mae'r risg hon i'r busnesau hynny'n cael ei dileu. Ond mae'n rhaid inni baratoi am sefyllfa lle nad yw hynny'n digwydd.
And, finally, question 8—Lynne Neagle.
Ac yn olaf, cwestiwn 8—Lynne Neagle.
8. Pa asesiad y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'i wneud o effaith y cytundeb ymadael diweddaraf ar hawliau gweithwyr yng Nghymru? OAQ54615
8. What assessment has the Counsel General made of the impact of the latest withdrawal agreement on workers' rights in Wales? OAQ54615
Well, the withdrawal agreement fails to provide any guarantees that the UK Government is committed to retaining alignment with existing EU rights and protections for workers in Wales.
Wel, nid yw'r cytundeb ymadael yn darparu unrhyw warantau fod Llywodraeth y DU wedi ymrwymo i barhau i gydymffurfio â hawliau ac amddiffyniadau presennol yr UE i weithwyr yng Nghymru.
Thank you for that very clear answer, Minister. It is absolutely clear that the latest withdrawal agreement represents a further weakening of the UK Government's commitment to workers' rights. Frances O'Grady, secretary of the Trades Union Congress, has said:
'This deal would be a disaster for working people. It would hammer the economy, cost jobs and sell workers’ rights down the river.'
Do you agree with Sir Keir Starmer, the UK shadow Brexit Secretary, that there would be a real danger if this deal goes through that there would be a serious weakening of workers' rights and that it would be very likely that the UK would follow other models, such as the United States', which have considerably weaker protections for workers than we currently enjoy here in this country?
Diolch am eich ateb clir iawn, Weinidog. Mae'n gwbl amlwg fod y cytundeb ymadael diweddaraf yn arwydd o wanychu pellach ar ymrwymiad Llywodraeth y DU tuag at hawliau gweithwyr. Mae Frances O'Grady, ysgrifennydd Cyngres yr Undebau Llafur, wedi dweud:
Byddai'r cytundeb hwn yn drychineb i weithwyr. Byddai’n ergyd i'r economi, yn arwain at golli swyddi ac yn troi cefn ar hawliau gweithwyr.
A ydych yn cytuno â Syr Keir Starmer, Ysgrifennydd Brexit yr wrthblaid ar gyfer y DU, y byddai perygl gwirioneddol, pe bai'r cytundeb hwn yn cael ei dderbyn, y byddai hawliau gweithwyr yn cael eu gwanychu'n sylweddol ac y byddai'n debygol iawn y byddai'r DU yn dilyn modelau eraill, fel un yr Unol Daleithiau, sy'n cynnwys amddiffyniadau gwannach o lawer i weithwyr na'r rhai sydd gennym yn y wlad hon ar hyn o bryd?
Well, I think the Member hits the nail on the head. That is exactly, I think, the risk that comes out of this agreement. In fact, I'd go further than to say that it's a risk; I think the nature of the agreement discloses the kind of destination in which the current UK Government wants to take the UK. It's one of deregulation, where the UK has given up on workplace protection and social and environmental rights of the kind that we in Wales both take for granted and would wish of course to continue to align with.
As her question implies, this deal is even worse than Theresa May's deal, which at least committed the Government to maintaining the current level of EU workers' rights and gave Parliament some mechanism into the future around that. The kind of vision that is outlined in this agreement is fundamentally at odds with the priorities of the Welsh Government here in Wales, as set out in the work of the Fair Work Commission recently, which ensures that we as a Government will continue to take every step that we can to make sure that workers in Wales are not disadvantaged if and when we leave the European Union.
Wel, credaf fod yr Aelod yn taro'r hoelen ar ei phen. Credaf mai dyna'n union yw'r risg yn sgil y cytundeb hwn. Mewn gwirionedd, buaswn yn mynd gam ymhellach na'i alw'n risg; credaf fod natur y cytundeb yn datgelu'r math o ben draw y mae Llywodraeth bresennol y DU yn awyddus i fynd â'r DU iddo. Mae'n un o ddadreoleiddio, lle mae'r DU wedi rhoi'r gorau i amddiffyniad yn y gweithle a hawliau cymdeithasol ac amgylcheddol o'r math rydym ni yng Nghymru yn eu cymryd yn ganiataol ac yr hoffem barhau i gydymffurfio â hwy wrth gwrs.
Fel yr awgryma ei chwestiwn, mae'r cytundeb hwn hyd yn oed yn waeth na chytundeb Theresa May, a oedd o leiaf yn ymrwymo'r Llywodraeth i gynnal hawliau gweithwyr yr UE ar eu lefel bresennol ac a oedd yn rhoi rhywfaint o fecanwaith i Senedd y DU yn y dyfodol mewn perthynas â hynny. Mae'r math o weledigaeth a amlinellir yn y cytundeb hwn yn gwbl groes i flaenoriaethau Llywodraeth Cymru yma yng Nghymru fel y'u nodwyd yng ngwaith y Comisiwn Gwaith Teg yn ddiweddar, sy'n sicrhau y byddwn ni fel Llywodraeth yn parhau i wneud popeth y gallwn i sicrhau nad yw gweithwyr yng Nghymru dan anfantais os a phan fyddwn yn gadael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd.
Thank you very much, Minister.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Weinidog.
Item 3 on the agenda this afternoon is a debate under Standing Order 25.15 on the Government of Wales Act 2006 (Amendment) Order 2019—section 109 Order relating to the electoral registration officers. I call on the Counsel General and the Brexit Minister to move the motion—Jeremy Miles.
Eitem 3 ar yr agenda y prynhawn yma yw dadl o dan Reol Sefydlog 25.15 ar Orchymyn Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru 2006 (Diwygio) 2019—Gorchymyn adran 109 yn ymwneud â swyddogion cofrestru etholiadol. Galwaf ar y Cwnsler Cyffredinol a'r Gweinidog Brexit i gynnig y cynnig—Jeremy Miles.
Cynnig NDM7176 Jeremy Miles
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 25.15 yn cymeradwyo fersiwn ddrafft Gorchymyn Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru 2006 (Diwygio) 2019.
Motion NDM7176 Jeremy Miles
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 25.15 approves the draft version of The Government of Wales Act 2006 (Amendment) Order 2019.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I move the motion to approve this Order in Council under section 109 of the Government of Wales Act 2006. This Order makes some progress in addressing issues of competence that have arisen as a result of the Wales Act 2017. When the Order is made, it will ensure that the Assembly can effectively and comprehensively legislate in relation to electoral law relating to devolved Welsh elections. This was of course the original intention of Parliament when the Wales Act 2017 was developed.
It's also necessary to allow for coherent regulations to be made in relation to canvass reform in time for the 2020 annual canvass, and to ensure that the lines of executive competence between the UK Government and Welsh Ministers are clear. Electoral law is contained in a wide array of primary and secondary legislation, and the role of electoral registration officers is essential to electoral registration and thus to electoral reform. Without the ability to confer functions on an electoral registration officer in new legislation, the electoral functions of the Welsh Ministers are significantly restricted.
It became apparent through the canvass reform project that the particular mechanism by which electoral functions, and specifically those that affect electoral registration officers, have been transferred means that no one person, the Welsh Ministers nor the Secretary of State, would have a fully coherent set of powers in relation to devolved elections. Once this Order is made, we will be able to progress the canvass reform agenda, which will streamline the registration process in Wales and will make it easier for the electorate to engage with.
The Order will also enable us to make the necessary changes to the role of electoral registration officer in relation to devolved elections in primary legislation without needing to seek the consent of the UK Government each time. This includes changes we will be proposing in our forthcoming local government and elections (Wales) Bill. This will support the electoral reform agenda in Wales and it will enable the modernisation of electoral practices, and ultimately it will support voters in engaging with democracy.
The UK Government has recognised the challenges that have been created by the way in which functions have been transferred, together with the operation of the provisions of Schedule 7B to the Government of Wales Act, so they were content to bring forward the Order as a matter of urgency and have ensured its progress through Parliament as speedily as possible. I therefore ask the Assembly to approve it.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Cynigiaf y cynnig i gymeradwyo'r Gorchymyn hwn yn y Cyfrin Gyngor o dan adran 109 o Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru 2006. Mae'r Gorchymyn hwn yn gwneud rhywfaint o gynnydd wrth fynd i'r afael â materion cymhwysedd sydd wedi codi o ganlyniad i Ddeddf Cymru 2017. Pan wneir y Gorchymyn, bydd yn sicrhau y gall y Cynulliad ddeddfu'n effeithiol ac yn gynhwysfawr mewn perthynas â chyfraith etholiadol sy'n ymwneud ag etholiadau datganoledig Cymru. Dyma oedd bwriad gwreiddiol Senedd y DU, wrth gwrs, pan ddatblygwyd Deddf Cymru 2017.
Mae hefyd yn angenrheidiol er mwyn caniatáu i reoliadau cydlynol gael eu gwneud mewn perthynas â diwygio'r canfasiad mewn pryd ar gyfer canfasiad blynyddol 2020, ac i sicrhau bod y llinellau cymhwysedd gweithredol rhwng Llywodraeth y DU a Gweinidogion Cymru yn glir. Mae cyfraith etholiadol yn cynnwys ystod eang o ddeddfwriaeth sylfaenol ac is-ddeddfwriaeth, ac mae rôl swyddogion cofrestru etholiadol yn hanfodol i gofrestru etholiadol ac felly i ddiwygio etholiadol. Heb y gallu i roi swyddogaethau i swyddogion cofrestru etholiadol mewn deddfwriaeth newydd, mae swyddogaethau etholiadol Gweinidogion Cymru wedi'u cyfyngu'n sylweddol.
Daeth yn amlwg drwy brosiect diwygio'r canfasiad fod y mecanwaith penodol ar gyfer trosglwyddo swyddogaethau etholiadol, ac yn benodol y rheini sy'n effeithio ar swyddogion cofrestru etholiadol, yn golygu na fyddai gan unrhyw unigolyn, Gweinidogion Cymru na'r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol set gwbl gydlynol o bwerau mewn perthynas ag etholiadau datganoledig. Pan fydd y Gorchymyn hwn wedi'i wneud, bydd modd inni fwrw ymlaen â'r agenda i ddiwygio'r canfasiad, a fydd yn symleiddio'r broses gofrestru yng Nghymru ac yn ei gwneud hi'n haws i etholwyr ymwneud â hi.
Bydd y Gorchymyn hefyd yn ein galluogi i wneud y newidiadau angenrheidiol i rôl swyddogion cofrestru etholiadol mewn perthynas ag etholiadau datganoledig mewn deddfwriaeth sylfaenol heb fod angen ceisio cydsyniad Llywodraeth y DU bob tro. Mae hyn yn cynnwys newidiadau y byddwn yn eu cynnig yn ein Bil llywodraeth leol ac etholiadau (Cymru) sydd ar y ffordd. Bydd hyn yn cefnogi'r agenda diwygio etholiadol yng Nghymru ac yn galluogi i arferion etholiadol gael eu moderneiddio, ac yn y pen draw, bydd yn cynorthwyo pleidleiswyr i gymryd rhan ym mhroses democratiaeth.
Mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi cydnabod yr heriau a grëwyd yn sgil y ffordd y mae swyddogaethau wedi'u trosglwyddo, ynghyd â gweithrediad darpariaethau Atodlen 7B i Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru, felly roeddent yn fodlon cyflwyno'r Gorchymyn fel mater o frys ac maent wedi sicrhau y bydd yn mynd drwy Senedd y DU mor gyflym â phosibl. Gofynnaf felly i'r Cynulliad ei gymeradwyo.
Thank you. Can I call Carwyn Jones to speak on behalf of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee? Carwyn.
Diolch. A gaf fi alw ar Carwyn Jones i siarad ar ran y Pwyllgor Materion Cyfansoddiadol a Deddfwriaethol? Carwyn.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. The Business Committee referred the Government of Wales Act 2006 (Amendment) Order 2019 to the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee in accordance with Standing Order 25.7(i). We took evidence from the Counsel General on the proposed Order at our meeting on 16 September 2019, and we laid our report before the Assembly on 30 September of this year. Since then, we note that the Order was approved by the House of Commons and the House of Lords on 28 October of this year. Dirprwy Lywydd, during our evidence session, the Counsel General explained the purpose and objective for the proposed Order, as well as the relationship between the Order, the Senedd and Elections (Wales) Bill and the Welsh Government's forthcoming local government Bill. We've noted the background and purpose for the proposed Order and, Dirprwy Lywydd, we are content.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Cyfeiriodd y Pwyllgor Busnes Orchymyn Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru 2006 (Diwygio) 2019 at y Pwyllgor Materion Cyfansoddiadol a Deddfwriaethol yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 25.7(i). Cawsom dystiolaeth gan y Cwnsler Cyffredinol ar y Gorchymyn arfaethedig yn ein cyfarfod ar 16 Medi 2019, a chyflwynasom ein hadroddiad i'r Cynulliad ar 30 Medi eleni. Ers hynny, nodwn fod y Gorchymyn wedi'i gymeradwyo gan Dŷ'r Cyffredin a Thŷ'r Arglwyddi ar 28 Hydref eleni. Ddirprwy Lywydd, yn ystod ein sesiwn dystiolaeth, esboniodd y Cwnsler Cyffredinol ddiben ac amcan y Gorchymyn arfaethedig, yn ogystal â'r berthynas rhwng y Gorchymyn, Bil Senedd ac Etholiadau (Cymru) a Bil llywodraeth leol Llywodraeth Cymru sydd ar y ffordd. Rydym wedi nodi cefndir a diben y Gorchymyn arfaethedig, ac rydym yn fodlon, Ddirprwy Lywydd.
Thank you. I call on the Counsel General and Brexit Minister to reply.
Diolch. Galwaf ar y Cwnsler Cyffredinol a'r Gweinidog Brexit i ymateb.
I thank Carwyn Jones for his remarks and for the work of CLAC in relation to this Order. If the Assembly approves the Order, it will be considered next by the Privy Council at its next meeting. I expect the date for that meeting to be confirmed following the UK general election. And, in closing, can I put on record my thanks to officials in both the Welsh Government and the UK Government for enabling this legislation to be brought forward rapidly?
Diolch i Carwyn Jones am ei sylwadau ac am waith y Pwyllgor Materion Cyfansoddiadol a Deddfwriaethol mewn perthynas â'r Gorchymyn hwn. Os bydd y Cynulliad yn cymeradwyo'r Gorchymyn, bydd y Cyfrin Gyngor yn ei ystyried yn ei gyfarfod nesaf. Rwy'n disgwyl i'r dyddiad ar gyfer y cyfarfod hwnnw gael ei gadarnhau yn dilyn etholiad cyffredinol y DU. Ac i gloi, a gaf fi gofnodi fy niolch i swyddogion yn Llywodraeth Cymru a Llywodraeth y DU am ei gwneud hi'n bosibl dwyn y ddeddfwriaeth hon gerbron yn gyflym?
Thank you. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Diolch. Y cynnig yw derbyn y cynnig. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Na. Felly, derbynnir y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
We now move to topical questions, and the first this afternoon, to be answered by the Minister for Health and Social Services, is from Jack Sargeant.
Symudwn yn awr at y cwestiynau amserol, a daw'r cyntaf y prynhawn yma, a fydd yn cael ei ateb gan y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, gan Jack Sargeant.
1. Pa ystyriaeth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i gwneud o benderfyniad GIG Lloegr i gymeradwyo'r defnydd o Orkambi a Symkevi? 359
1. What consideration has the Welsh Government made of NHS England’s decision to approve the use of Orkambi and Symkevi? 359
Thank you for the question. The use of Orkambi a Symkevi in NHS England is approved only through a commercial access agreement. My officials have met with, and await a formal offer from, Vertex. Given the confidential nature of our discussions, there is, of course, a limit to the comment that I can make.
Diolch am y cwestiwn. Nid yw GIG Lloegr ond wedi cymeradwyo defnyddio Orkambi a Symkevi drwy gytundeb mynediad masnachol. Mae fy swyddogion wedi cyfarfod â Vertex ac maent yn aros am gynnig ffurfiol ganddynt. O ystyried natur gyfrinachol ein trafodaethau, mae yna derfyn i'r sylwadau y gallaf eu gwneud wrth gwrs.
Thank you for that, Minister. As you are aware, I have constituents who are now travelling across the border to Liverpool and Manchester for treatment. They will be in the same building as England patients who can access this medicine. Minister, can you assure me that negotiations in the conversations you are having with Vertex are ongoing and are positive so that my constituents and the people of Wales can access these medicines as soon as possible? And, finally, Minister, have you also given any consideration to introducing an interim patient access scheme, as was the case in NHS Scotland, while the agreement was being reached on access to these two very important medicines?
Diolch i chi am hynny, Weinidog. Fel y gwyddoch, mae gennyf etholwyr sy'n gorfod teithio dros y ffin i Lerpwl a Manceinion i gael triniaeth. Byddant yn yr un adeilad â chleifion o Loegr sy'n gallu cael mynediad at y feddyginiaeth hon. Weinidog, a allwch fy sicrhau bod y negodiadau yn y sgyrsiau rydych yn eu cael gyda Vertex yn parhau a'u bod yn gadarnhaol fel y gall fy etholwyr a phobl Cymru gael mynediad at y meddyginiaethau hyn cyn gynted â phosibl? Ac yn olaf, Weinidog, a ydych chi hefyd wedi ystyried cyflwyno cynllun dros dro ar gyfer mynediad i gleifion, fel y digwyddodd yn GIG yr Alban, wrth ddod i gytundeb ynghylch mynediad at y meddyginiaethau pwysig hyn?
The Member will be aware of the letter published by Simon Stevens, the chief executive of NHS England on this matter, sent to the House of Commons's Health and Social Care Select Committee. That set out that Northern Ireland and Wales have stood alongside England in the negotiation of the agreement that has been reached. My expectation is that those terms will be honoured. I made public comment yesterday that I would sign up today to exactly the same pro-rata terms for Wales, and I wish to be able to do so. That is my commitment. There should not be a delay for any family in Wales. I look forward to a properly constructive and honest response from Vertex that allows that to take place.
Bydd yr Aelod yn ymwybodol o'r llythyr a gyhoeddwyd gan Simon Stevens, prif weithredwr GIG Lloegr ar y mater hwn, a anfonwyd at Bwyllgor Dethol Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol Tŷ’r Cyffredin. Roedd hwnnw'n nodi bod Gogledd Iwerddon a Chymru wedi sefyll ochr yn ochr â Lloegr wrth negodi'r cytundeb a wnaed. Rwy'n disgwyl y bydd y telerau hynny'n cael eu hanrhydeddu. Gwneuthum sylw cyhoeddus ddoe y byddwn yn ymrwymo heddiw i'r un telerau pro rata yn union ar gyfer Cymru, a hoffwn allu gwneud hynny. Dyna fy ymrwymiad. Ni ddylai unrhyw deulu wynebu oedi yng Nghymru. Edrychaf ymlaen at ymateb priodol o onest ac adeiladol gan Vertex a fydd yn caniatáu i hynny ddigwydd.
Minister, I know that you share with me concerns that, every day that passes, we have patients in Wales who aren't able to access these extremely important drugs. Now, on 25 October, you said that you and your officials were meeting with representatives from Vertex the following week to discuss details of these terms and how they might be applied. I do understand you've got company confidentiality issues here, but are you able to give us any form of update on that?
May I also ask what lessons have been learned from the length of time that it's taken to make progress on this issue, and how could things be done differently in future to ensure that we're not left behind the curve when it comes to reaching agreements on making life-saving drugs available for Welsh patients?
And finally, in terms of learning lessons, I understand that in early 2018, the company had been in discussions with NHS Wales on a portfolio proposal for all their current and future cystic fibrosis medicines. However, and I'm directly quoting, these discussions were halted in March/April, due to what we understood at the time to be a staffing issue at NHS Wales all-Wales medicines procurement. Minister, can you shed any light on that and provide assurances that such hold-ups will not happen again?
Weinidog, gwn eich bod yn rhannu fy mhryderon fod gennym, gyda phob dydd sy'n mynd heibio, gleifion yng Nghymru nad ydynt yn gallu cael mynediad at y meddyginiaethau hynod bwysig hyn. Nawr, ar 25 Hydref, fe ddywedoch eich bod chi a'ch swyddogion yn cyfarfod â chynrychiolwyr o Vertex yr wythnos ganlynol i drafod manylion y telerau hyn a sut y gellid eu cymhwyso. Rwy'n deall bod gennych faterion yn ymwneud â chyfrinachedd cwmnïau yma, ond a allwch chi roi unrhyw fath o ddiweddariad i ni ar hynny?
A gaf fi ofyn hefyd pa wersi a ddysgwyd o'r amser a gymerwyd i wneud cynnydd ar y mater hwn, a sut y gellid gwneud pethau'n wahanol yn y dyfodol i sicrhau na chawn ein gadael ar ôl pan fo angen dod i gytundeb i sicrhau bod cyffuriau sy'n achub bywydau ar gael i gleifion Cymru?
Ac yn olaf, o ran dysgu gwersi, deallaf fod y cwmni, ar ddechrau 2018, wedi bod mewn trafodaethau gyda GIG Cymru ar gynnig portffolio ar gyfer eu holl feddyginiaethau ffeibrosis systig presennol ac yn y dyfodol. Fodd bynnag, ac rwy'n dyfynnu'n uniongyrchol, daeth y trafodaethau hyn i stop ym mis Mawrth/Ebrill, oherwydd yr hyn y deallem ar y pryd a oedd yn fater staffio ym mhroses gaffael meddyginiaethau Cymru gyfan GIG Cymru. Weinidog, a allwch chi daflu unrhyw oleuni ar hynny a rhoi sicrwydd i ni na fydd y fath oedi'n digwydd eto?
On your final point, that simply isn't true. It's simply not true. Vertex understand very well the well-established appraisal mechanisms we have right across the United Kingdom for new medicines: the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence appraisal system that we sign up to, the particular appraisal systems also available in Scotland, and here in Wales through the All Wales Medicines Strategy Group. What they have done, in reaching an agreement with England, which is in the text of Simon Stevens's letter, is they've agreed to provide real-time patient data on a basis where they've agreed a price for access to be made available for every patient for whom the treatment and the condition are indicated, and they will then submit their whole portfolio, with that real-time data, to NICE for appraisal. Now that makes sense, and that was not the proposal that was ever provided here in Wales.
I am clear that we are not responsible in Wales for holding up access to these medicines. The issue is that Vertex need to do what they've committed to do, which is in Simon Stevens's letter. And that is the start and the end of the matter. No family in Wales should be put into a less advantageous position than a family across our border because of an inability to meet the terms of the deal that has been agreed. I look forward to a positive and constructive response from the pharmaceutical company.
Ar eich pwynt olaf, nid yw'n wir o gwbl. Nid yw'n wir o gwbl. Mae Vertex yn deall y mecanweithiau gwerthuso sefydledig sydd gennym ar gyfer meddyginiaethau newydd ar draws y Deyrnas Unedig yn iawn: system arfarnu'r Sefydliad Cenedlaethol dros Ragoriaeth mewn Iechyd a Gofal rydym wedi ymrwymo iddi, y systemau arfarnu penodol sydd hefyd ar gael yn yr Alban, ac yma yng Nghymru drwy Grŵp Strategaeth Meddyginiaethau Cymru Gyfan. Yr hyn y maent wedi'i wneud, wrth ddod i gytundeb â Lloegr, sydd wedi'i gynnwys yn llythyr Simon Stevens, yw cytuno i ddarparu data cleifion amser real ar sail lle maent wedi cytuno ar bris i sicrhau bod mynediad ar gael i bob claf sy'n dioddef o'r cyflwr ac sydd angen y driniaeth, ac yna byddant yn cyflwyno eu portffolio cyfan, gyda'r data amser real hwnnw, i'r Sefydliad Cenedlaethol dros Ragoriaeth mewn Iechyd a Gofal i'w arfarnu. Nawr, mae hynny'n gwneud synnwyr, ac nid dyna'r cynnig a roddwyd yma yng Nghymru.
Rwy'n glir nad ydym ni yng Nghymru yn gyfrifol am oedi mynediad at y meddyginiaethau hyn. Y broblem yw bod angen i Vertex wneud yr hyn y maent wedi ymrwymo i'w wneud, sef yr hyn sydd yn llythyr Simon Stevens. A dyna ddechrau a diwedd y mater. Ni ddylai'r un teulu yng Nghymru gael ei roi mewn sefyllfa lai manteisiol na theulu dros y ffin oherwydd anallu i fodloni telerau'r cytundeb y cytunwyd arno. Edrychaf ymlaen at ymateb cadarnhaol ac adeiladol gan y cwmni fferyllol.
Thank you. The second topical question this afternoon is from Angela Burns.
Diolch. Daw'r ail gwestiwn amserol y prynhawn yma gan Angela Burns.
2. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am golli 2,763 o gleifion yn ddiweddar o'r rhestr aros ym Mwrdd Iechyd Cwm Taf Morgannwg? 360
2. Will the Minister make a statement on the recent loss of 2,763 patients from the waiting list in Cwm Taf Morgannwg Health Board? 360
These patients were always reported on an internal list within the health board, and their waiting times were monitored. They are now being reported on the correct referral-to-treatment or diagnostic list. Robust mechanisms are now in place to ensure the health board reports all patients correctly.
Roedd y cleifion hyn bob amser wedi eu cofnodi ar restr fewnol o fewn y bwrdd iechyd, ac roedd eu hamseroedd aros yn cael eu monitro. Cânt eu cofnodi nawr ar y rhestr aros rhwng atgyfeirio a thriniaeth neu'r rhestr ddiagnostig gywir. Mae mecanweithiau cadarn yn eu lle nawr i sicrhau bod y bwrdd iechyd yn adrodd am bob claf yn gywir.
I am very pleased to hear you use the word 'now' with great emphasis twice, because I am very concerned about this news. It's yet another failing by the management of Cwm Taf, and I truly feel sorry for the hard-working front-line staff of this health board who, week after week, see the name of the health board being tainted through no fault of their own. I'm also concerned about the confidence that patients living in this health board area have in receiving the care that they so desperately need.
Now, we are aware of the ongoing full-scale review that's been taken into maternity services, and we debated that last month and I think there are some very positive movements there, but you will know from the report that it's been cited on a number of different occasions that there are cultural systemic issues that run throughout the whole of the board's operation. I'll quote directly from the report:
'it is unrealistic to expect that longstanding issues related to culture, attitudes and behaviours can be addressed within a few months.'
So, with this background in mind, I simply ask the following three questions. Will you consider ordering or do you believe that we need to have a more comprehensive review that looks at all the services that Cwm Taf offers, and not just maternity services, if there are these systemic issues at play, and this waiting list issue could be an example of yet another? What confidence, Minister, do you have that other similar losses of data are not being replicated in other health boards? I appreciate that it was on an internal list that you didn't have eyes on, and neither did anybody else. Bearing in mind that this has occurred in one, is it occurring elsewhere? And finally, could you please explain to us what methodology is in place within your department to ensure that the data you receive from all our health boards across Wales is accurate, because good data collection is absolutely essential to help you, the Government, to plan the future delivery of healthcare? In order to be able to plan that, we need that data to be right, we need it to be the truth, the absolute truth and nothing but the truth.
Rwy'n falch iawn o'ch clywed yn defnyddio'r gair 'nawr' gyda phwyslais mawr ddwywaith, oherwydd rwy'n bryderus iawn am y newyddion hwn. Mae'n fethiant arall eto gan reolwyr Cwm Taf, ac rwy'n teimlo trueni gwirioneddol dros staff rheng flaen gweithgar y bwrdd iechyd hwn sydd, wythnos ar ôl wythnos, yn gweld enw'r bwrdd iechyd yn cael ei bardduo heb fod unrhyw fai arnynt hwy. Rwyf hefyd yn pryderu na fydd cleifion sy'n byw yn ardal y bwrdd iechyd hwn yn hyderus y byddant yn derbyn y gofal y maent ei angen yn daer.
Nawr, rydym yn ymwybodol o'r adolygiad llawn o wasanaethau mamolaeth sydd ar y gweill ar hyn o bryd, ac fe drafodasom hynny y mis diwethaf a chredaf fod rhai camau cadarnhaol iawn yno, ond fe fyddwch yn gwybod o'r adroddiad bod problemau systemig diwylliannol wedi'u nodi ar nifer o wahanol achlysuron a hynny drwy holl weithrediad y bwrdd. Fe ddyfynnaf yn uniongyrchol o'r adroddiad:
Mae'n afrealistig disgwyl y gellir datrys problemau hirsefydlog sy'n ymwneud â diwylliant, agweddau ac ymddygiad o fewn ychydig fisoedd.
Felly, gan gadw'r cefndir hwn mewn cof, gofynnaf y tri chwestiwn canlynol. A wnewch chi ystyried gofyn am, neu a ydych yn credu bod angen cael adolygiad mwy cynhwysfawr sy'n edrych ar yr holl wasanaethau y mae Cwm Taf yn eu cynnig, ac nid gwasanaethau mamolaeth yn unig, os ceir problemau systemig, a gallai'r broblem hon gyda'r rhestrau aros fod yn enghraifft o broblem arall? Pa mor ffyddiog ydych chi, Weinidog, na cheir achosion tebyg o golli data mewn byrddau iechyd eraill? Rwy'n sylweddoli mai rhestr fewnol oedd yr un na welsoch chi, na neb arall ychwaith. O gofio bod hyn wedi digwydd mewn un man, a yw'n digwydd mewn mannau eraill? Ac yn olaf, a allech chi egluro wrthym pa fethodoleg sydd ar waith yn eich adran i sicrhau bod y data rydych yn ei dderbyn gan ein holl fyrddau iechyd ledled Cymru yn gywir, os gwelwch yn dda, oherwydd mae casglu data da yn gwbl hanfodol i'ch helpu chi, y Llywodraeth, i gynllunio ar gyfer darparu gofal iechyd yn y dyfodol? Er mwyn gallu cynllunio hynny, mae angen i'r data hwnnw fod yn gywir, rydym angen y gwir, y gwir i gyd a dim byd ond y gwir.
I'll deal with your final two points first, because in terms of whether other data issues exist, there is regular scrutiny of reported statistics by our official statistics department within the Government, and they are absolutely scrupulous in the work that they do. And where there are any caveats to data that is received, they're published as part of the statistics report. I'm sure that you and colleagues who do scrutinise those reports when they're provided will note that those caveats are occasionally provided. It's also part of the reason, because we want official statistics for the public to be able to rely upon, that we've not been able to make progress in a number of other areas, because we want to be clear that the data is reliable. I'm under pressure in a number of other areas to make official statistics available, and I've held the line about saying they'll be available when we are certain that we're measuring the same things in the same way across the country, and that is exactly what I expect here.
Actually, what happened here was that the health board themselves asked the NHS delivery unit to validate their waiting lists. That review resulted in these people being properly added to the list. So, the health board themselves said, 'We think we may have a problem, get an external body through the Welsh Government to come in and do so.' And more than that, the delivery unit's report is available on the health board's website, so the level of transparency is there now. They've recognised that this was an issue and it's been dealt with. I don't believe there is a need for a further comprehensive review into the organisation. As you know, the status of the whole organisation has been raised to targeted intervention. If there are any further steps that are required, I will report back openly and transparently, together with advice that I'll receive from the NHS Wales chief executive, the Wales Audit Office and, of course, Healthcare Inspectorate Wales.
Rwyf am ymdrin â'ch dau bwynt olaf yn gyntaf, oherwydd o ran y cwestiwn a oes problemau eraill yn bodoli gyda data, mae'r ystadegau a gofnodir yn cael eu harchwilio'n rheolaidd gan ein hadran ystadegau swyddogol o fewn y Llywodraeth, ac maent yn gwbl gydwybodol yn y gwaith a wnânt. A lle ceir unrhyw gafeatau i'r data a dderbynnir, cânt eu cyhoeddi fel rhan o'r adroddiad ystadegau. Rwy'n siŵr y byddwch chi a chymheiriaid sy'n craffu ar yr adroddiadau hynny pan gânt eu darparu yn nodi bod y cafeatau hynny'n cael eu darparu o bryd i'w gilydd. Hefyd, oherwydd ein bod eisiau ystadegau swyddogol i'r cyhoedd allu dibynnu arnynt, mae'n rhan o'r rheswm pam nad ydym wedi gallu gwneud cynnydd mewn nifer o feysydd eraill, oherwydd rydym eisiau bod yn glir bod y data yn ddibynadwy. Rwyf dan bwysau mewn nifer o feysydd eraill i sicrhau bod ystadegau swyddogol ar gael, ac rwyf wedi cadw dweud y byddant ar gael pan fyddwn yn sicr ein bod yn mesur yr un pethau yn yr un ffordd ar draws y wlad, a dyna'n union rwy'n ei ddisgwyl yma.
Mewn gwirionedd, yr hyn a ddigwyddodd yma oedd bod y bwrdd iechyd eu hunain wedi gofyn i uned gyflawni'r GIG ddilysu eu rhestrau aros. Arweiniodd yr adolygiad hwnnw at ychwanegu'r bobl hyn at y rhestr yn briodol. Felly, dywedodd y bwrdd iechyd ei hun, 'Rydym yn credu y gallai fod gennym broblem, gadewch i ni gael corff allanol drwy Lywodraeth Cymru i ddod i mewn a gwneud hynny.' Ac yn fwy na hynny, mae adroddiad yr uned gyflawni ar gael ar wefan y bwrdd iechyd, felly mae'r lefel honno o dryloywder yno nawr. Maent wedi cydnabod bod hon yn broblem ac mae wedi cael ei datrys. Nid wyf yn credu bod angen adolygiad cynhwysfawr pellach o'r sefydliad. Fel y gwyddoch, mae statws y sefydliad cyfan wedi'i godi i ymyriad wedi'i dargedu. Os oes angen cymryd unrhyw gamau pellach, byddaf yn adrodd yn ôl yn agored ac yn dryloyw, gyda chyngor y byddaf yn ei gael gan brif weithredwr GIG Cymru, Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru, ac Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru wrth gwrs.
This might seem like a trivial issue about a data entry error, but behind it lies consistent poor performance of even basic administrative functions. Without proper and accurate data on waiting times, we can't judge whether or not things are getting better or worse. We can't pinpoint the areas that need investment and the areas where patient safety may be at risk because of lengthening waiting times, yet poor quality of data throughout the NHS is an issue highlighted time and time again by committee report after committee report. So, how confident are you that the decisions that you make, when the data that you have shows itself to be consistently unreliable, are the right decisions?
Efallai fod hwn i'w weld yn fater dibwys ynglŷn â gwall cofnodi data, ond y tu ôl iddo, roedd hyd yn oed swyddogaethau gweinyddol sylfaenol yn cael eu perfformio'n wael yn gyson. Heb ddata cywir ar amseroedd aros, ni allwn farnu a yw pethau'n gwella neu'n gwaethygu. Ni allwn nodi'n fanwl y meysydd y mae angen buddsoddi ynddynt a'r meysydd lle gallai diogelwch cleifion fod mewn perygl oherwydd amseroedd aros hwy, ac eto mae ansawdd gwael y data ledled y GIG yn fater sydd wedi cael sylw dro ar ôl tro gan un adroddiad pwyllgor ar ôl y llall. Felly, pa mor hyderus ydych chi fod y penderfyniadau a wnewch, pan fo'r data sydd gennych yn gyson annibynadwy, yn benderfyniadau cywir?
I don't accept the premise of the Member's question that the data is consistently unreliable. We're open and we're honest about the accuracy that we have in our official statistics. Those official statistics do, of course, help to inform the choices that we make and the scrutiny we have on our services. I think a blanket attack that says, 'You can't rely on data provided by the NHS' is misplaced and it's not the way that I intend to run the health service.
Nid wyf yn derbyn cynsail cwestiwn yr Aelod fod y data yn gyson annibynadwy. Rydym yn agored ac yn onest ynglŷn â'r cywirdeb sydd gennym yn ein hystadegau swyddogol. Mae'r ystadegau swyddogol hynny, wrth gwrs, yn helpu i lywio'r dewisiadau a wnawn a'r gwaith craffu sydd gennym ar ein gwasanaethau. Rwy'n credu bod ymosodiad cyffredinol sy'n dweud, 'Ni allwch ddibynnu ar ddata a ddarperir gan y GIG' yn gyfeiliornus ac nid dyna'r ffordd rwy'n bwriadu rhedeg y gwasanaeth iechyd.
Minister, while I accept that the investigation found no evidence of clinical harm and there was no indication that Cwm Taf had been deliberately trying to manipulate the figures, this does raise serious questions about the management of waiting lists, both in Cwm Taf and across all health boards. I'm sure all of us here can list examples of patients being removed from waiting lists because they didn't respond to a letter they may never have received. Minister, will you launch a wider investigation in waiting list management across all local health boards, and will you look at how technology can be used to improve the management of hospital appointments?
Weinidog, er fy mod yn derbyn na ddaeth yr ymchwiliad o hyd i unrhyw dystiolaeth o niwed clinigol ac er nad oedd unrhyw arwydd bod Cwm Taf wedi bod yn ceisio ystumio'r ffigurau'n fwriadol, mae hyn yn codi cwestiynau difrifol ynghylch y ffordd y caiff rhestrau aros eu rheoli, yng Nghwm Taf ac ar draws yr holl fyrddau iechyd. Rwy'n siŵr y gall pob un ohonom yn y fan hon restru enghreifftiau o gleifion yn cael eu tynnu oddi ar restrau aros am nad oeddent wedi ymateb i lythyr nad oeddent, o bosibl, wedi ei gael. Weinidog, a wnewch chi lansio ymchwiliad ehangach i'r ffordd y caiff rhestrau aros eu rheoli ar draws yr holl fyrddau iechyd lleol, ac a wnewch chi edrych ar sut y gellir defnyddio technoleg i wella'r ffordd y caiff apwyntiadau ysbyty eu rheoli?
As I said before to Angela Burns, I don't think a comprehensive review of Cwm Taf is needed, nor indeed into waiting list management. We are, though, always looking for how to make better use of technology to help manage appointments and waiting lists within the service. Part of what I'm keen to do is to make sure that best practice across health boards is adopted and rather more uniform across our service, so people know when they have appointments and attend those appointments to make sure that we're not running a service that builds in a level of inefficiency. So, I'm always on the look-out for how we improve the service, but I'm not looking to have an unnecessary and wasteful investigation across the national health service here in Wales.
Fel y dywedais o'r blaen wrth Angela Burns, nid wyf yn credu bod angen adolygiad cynhwysfawr o Gwm Taf, nac yn wir o'r ffordd y caiff rhestri aros eu rheoli. Fodd bynnag, rydym bob amser yn chwilio am ffyrdd i wneud gwell defnydd o dechnoleg i helpu i reoli apwyntiadau a rhestri aros o fewn y gwasanaeth. Rhan o'r hyn rwy'n awyddus i'w wneud yw sicrhau bod arferion gorau yn cael eu mabwysiadu ar draws byrddau iechyd a'u bod yn fwy unffurf ar draws ein gwasanaeth, fel bod pobl yn gwybod, pan fydd ganddynt apwyntiadau a phan fyddant yn mynychu'r apwyntiadau hynny, y gallant fod yn siŵr nad ydym yn rhedeg gwasanaeth sy'n ychwanegu haen o aneffeithlonrwydd. Felly, rwyf bob amser yn meddwl sut y gallwn wella'r gwasanaeth, ond nid wyf yn bwriadu cael ymchwiliad diangen a gwastraffus ar draws y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yma yng Nghymru.
Thank you very much. The third topical question this afternoon is to be answered by the Trefnydd, and it's Leanne Wood.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Leanne Wood sydd i ofyn y trydydd cwestiwn amserol y prynhawn yma, a bydd hwnnw'n cael ei ateb gan y Trefnydd.
3. Pa drafodaethau y mae’r Prif Weinidog wedi’u cael gyda Llywodraeth y DU ar y goblygiadau i Gymru yn dilyn ymddiswyddiad Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru? 361
3. What discussions has the First Minister had with the UK Government on the implications for Wales following the resignation of the Secretary of State for Wales? 361
We have had no such discussions.
Nid ydym wedi cael unrhyw drafodaethau o'r fath.
I've been disgusted by the events of the last week involving Ross England. His attempt to obstruct the justice system should have prompted widespread condemnation and immediate disciplinary action by the leadership of the Welsh Tories. Instead, it was followed by the promotion of Ross England as a candidate in a target Assembly seat. We should not forget that at the heart of this story is a woman who will have to live with what was done to her for the rest of her life. There is no way that she should have had to endure a second trial.
The episode has cost the Tory Secretary of State for Wales his Cabinet job. If he did know about this incident, as is suggested by the emergence of an e-mail from a special advisor, then he must withdraw as a candidate in this upcoming election. Anyone who minimises or condones the collapse of a rape trial is not fit for public office. If it is proven that other senior Tory figures in the party in Wales and England knew of this sordid affair but did nothing, then they must also seriously consider their positions.
Do you agree with me that Alun Cairns is unfit for public office and that any inquiry should include who else within the Tory party knew of Ross England's collapsed rape trial? And will you also be making representations to the UK Government when a new Secretary of State for Wales is announced to insist that someone with a knowledge of what our country needs is appointed? While this anachronistic post exists, we can ill afford another voice for the UK Government in Wales as opposed to what is required: a strong voice for Wales within the UK Government.
Rwyf wedi ffieiddio at ddigwyddiadau'r wythnos diwethaf yn ymwneud â Ross England. Dylai ei ymgais i rwystro'r system gyfiawnder fod wedi ysgogi condemniad eang a chamau disgyblu ar unwaith gan arweinwyr y Torïaid Cymreig. Yn hytrach, arweiniodd at ddyrchafiad Ross England fel ymgeisydd mewn sedd darged yn y Cynulliad. Ni ddylem anghofio bod yna fenyw wrth wraidd y stori hon a fydd yn gorfod byw gyda'r hyn a wnaed iddi am weddill ei hoes. Nid oes unrhyw ffordd y dylai fod wedi gorfod dioddef ail achos o gwbl.
Mae'r digwyddiad wedi achosi i Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Torïaidd Cymru golli ei swydd yn y Cabinet. Os oedd yn gwybod am y digwyddiad hwn, fel yr awgrymir mewn e-bost gan gynghorydd arbennig, mae'n rhaid iddo sefyll i lawr fel ymgeisydd yn yr etholiad nesaf hwn. Nid yw unrhyw un sy'n lleihau neu'n esgusodi methiant achos o drais yn addas i gael swydd gyhoeddus. Os profir bod uwch ffigurau Torïaidd yn y blaid yng Nghymru a Lloegr yn gwybod am yr helynt ofnadwy hwn, ond heb wneud dim, mae'n rhaid iddynt hwythau hefyd roi ystyriaeth ddifrifol i'w dyfodol yn eu swyddi.
A ydych yn cytuno â mi fod Alun Cairns yn anaddas ar gyfer gwneud swydd gyhoeddus ac y dylai unrhyw ymchwiliad gynnwys unigolion eraill o fewn y Blaid Dorïaidd a wyddai am fethiant achos trais Ross England? Ac a fyddwch hefyd yn cyflwyno sylwadau i Lywodraeth y DU pan fydd enw Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru newydd yn cael ei gyhoeddi i fynnu eu bod yn penodi rhywun sy'n gwybod beth sydd ei angen ar ein gwlad? Tra bo'r swydd anacronistig hon yn bodoli, ni allwn fforddio llais arall i Lywodraeth y DU yng Nghymru yn lle'r hyn sydd ei angen: llais cryf i Gymru o fewn Llywodraeth y DU.
Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, I completely share Leanne Wood's disgust at what happened with the case and the way in which it had been handled by the Conservative Party, and Leanne, of course, reminds us very, very importantly that behind all this is a woman's life who has been impacted by what's happened and, obviously, having to go through the current situation would be extremely distressing, so I think that in all of these discussions, we have to have the woman at heart, the victim at heart.
I will say that I agree with Jeremy Corbyn's comments on this issue, and he said, whilst Alun Cairns can legally stand,
'does he have a moral right to stand as a candidate?'
He goes on to say:
'If he’s stepping down as a minister because of his involvement then I would have thought the very least the Conservative party can do is not put him up as a candidate in the next election.'
And, of course, Leanne's right again to say that we do need a Secretary of State who understands Wales, and I very much look forward to a new Secretary of State after the general election who has Wales's interests at heart, rather than the interests of the Conservative Party at heart. And it's clearly not a good thing that we're in a situation now where the only Minister left in the Wales Office is the former MP for Torbay who, I think it's fair to say, would probably have limited knowledge of the issues affecting us here in Wales.
Wel, Ddirprwy Lywydd, rwy'n llwyr rannu ffieidd-dod Leanne Wood at yr hyn a ddigwyddodd gyda'r achos a'r modd y cafodd ei drin gan y Blaid Geidwadol, ac mae Leanne, wrth gwrs, yn ein hatgoffa, a hynny'n bwysig iawn, fod yna fenyw y tu ôl i hyn i gyd sydd wedi cael ei heffeithio gan yr hyn a ddigwyddodd, ac yn amlwg, byddai gorfod ymdopi â'r sefyllfa bresennol yn peri gofid mawr, felly rwy'n credu, yn yr holl drafodaethau hyn, y dylem gofio'n bennaf am y fenyw, y dioddefwr.
Rwyf am ddweud fy mod yn cytuno â sylwadau Jeremy Corbyn ar y mater, ac fe ddywedodd, er bod gan Alun Cairns hawl gyfreithlon i sefyll,
a oes ganddo hawl foesol i sefyll fel ymgeisydd?
Aiff ymlaen i ddweud:
Os yw'n ymddiswyddo fel Gweinidog oherwydd y rhan a chwaraeodd buaswn wedi meddwl mai'r peth lleiaf y gall y Blaid Geidwadol ei wneud yw peidio â'i gynnig fel ymgeisydd yn yr etholiad nesaf.
Ac wrth gwrs, mae Leanne yn iawn eto i ddweud ein bod angen Ysgrifennydd Gwladol sy'n deall Cymru, ac edrychaf ymlaen yn fawr at gael Ysgrifennydd Gwladol newydd, ar ôl yr etholiad cyffredinol, sy'n canolbwyntio ar fuddiannau Cymru yn hytrach na buddiannau'r Blaid Geidwadol. Ac yn amlwg, nid yw'n beth da ein bod mewn sefyllfa nawr lle mai'r unig Weinidog sydd ar ôl yn Swyddfa Cymru yw'r cyn AS dros Torbay a fyddai'n debygol o fod yn gyfyngedig ei wybodaeth am y materion sy'n effeithio arnom yma yng Nghymru, credaf ei bod yn deg dweud.
As I've made clear in my comments earlier today, I believe that the Secretary of State for Wales was right to resign from his role, given the circumstances. And I've also made it absolutely clear today that I think this case has been shocking and disturbing, and my heart goes out to this individual.
Now, as the Minister is aware, given today's resignation, an investigation under the UK Government's ministerial code will now take place, and that investigation will now take its course, and I very much agree. And it's important that we maintain the highest possible standards as politicians in all our parliamentary institutions, including here.
Therefore, can the Minister tell us what the Welsh Government is doing to ensure that its own ministerial code is as effective as possible so that the public can be confident in all our parliamentary institutions, and in all our Executive's institutions, to make sure that that code is as robust as possible?
Fel rwyf wedi'i egluro yn fy sylwadau yn gynharach heddiw, credaf fod Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru yn iawn i ymddiswyddo o'i rôl, o ystyried yr amgylchiadau. Ac rwyf hefyd wedi dweud yn gwbl glir heddiw fy mod yn credu bod yr achos hwn wedi bod yn frawychus, ac rwy'n cydymdeimlo'n fawr â'r unigolyn dan sylw.
Nawr, fel y gŵyr y Gweinidog, o gofio'r ymddiswyddiad heddiw, cynhelir ymchwiliad o dan god gweinidogion Llywodraeth y DU, a bydd yr ymchwiliad hwnnw'n mynd rhagddo nawr, ac rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â hynny. Ac mae'n bwysig ein bod yn cynnal y safonau uchaf posibl fel gwleidyddion yn ein holl sefydliadau seneddol, gan gynnwys y lle hwn.
Felly, a all y Gweinidog ddweud wrthym beth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i sicrhau bod ei chod gweinidogol ei hun mor effeithiol â phosibl fel y gall y cyhoedd gael hyder ym mhob un o'n sefydliadau seneddol, ac ym mhob un o sefydliadau'r Weithrediaeth, i wneud yn siŵr bod y cod hwnnw mor gadarn â phosibl?
I thank Paul Davies for his comments, and I'm familiar with the statement that he issued earlier today, although I do feel it was perhaps a week late in coming. But I will say that the Welsh Government is constantly reviewing the ministerial code, and when additions need to be made to it, then they are done. So, Ministers are regularly issued with copies of the ministerial code, which we have to completely absorb and ensure that we, at all times, are observing what's set out in the ministerial code.
Diolch i Paul Davies am ei sylwadau, ac rwy'n gyfarwydd â'r datganiad a gyhoeddodd yn gynharach heddiw, er fy mod yn teimlo ei fod wythnos yn hwyr yn dod o bosibl. Ond fe ddywedaf fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn adolygu cod y gweinidogion yn rheolaidd, a phan fydd angen gwneud ychwanegiadau ato, cânt eu gwneud. Felly, mae Gweinidogion yn cael copïau o god y gweinidogion yn rheolaidd, ac mae'n rhaid i ni eu mabwysiadu'n llwyr a sicrhau ein bod, bob amser, yn cydymffurfio â'r hyn sydd wedi'i nodi yng nghod y gweinidogion.
One of the impacts that Alun Cairns departure as Secretary of State could have is sending out a clear and substantive message to women who are considering coming forward to report rape that their trauma through a court appearance may be used to vilify them and that the case could collapse, which is exactly what happened in this case.
At a time when we all know that there is already an extremely very low rate of successful rape trials in the UK and in Wales, I think the damage that this very high-profile case can do to further diminish any prospect of women wanting to put themselves through this is extremely high. I would call on Alun Cairns to do the right thing in this case, because he stood by somebody, and it seems in the full knowledge of what that individual did, and making that woman go through a second trial. If one trial isn't enough, two trials is just beyond belief.
And there's a real danger here—and I urge everyone to be really careful in what they're doing—in identifying this victim, because that is my fear in all of this now, that somehow that could happen. We must make absolutely certain that that doesn't happen. So, doing the right thing in terms of giving up a job that he may or may not have had in a few weeks' time doesn't exactly satisfy me, and I'm sure it won't satisfy all those other women. If he was going to do the right thing, Alun Cairns, for his role in this, he ought to give up his position, because he doesn't, in my opinion, qualify to represent anybody any more in public office. Can you imagine how he's going to handle cases that might come to him about injustice in the future? Can you imagine that any woman in the Vale of Glamorgan, which he represents, would want to go anywhere near him or his party at this time? So, if the Tories—and I believe what Paul Davies said and I accept it absolutely—but if the Tories want to really say that they care, and I'm talking about the Tories in the UK and their head office, about this, then he has to go. That is the only route forward, because, unfortunately, what he's doing is damaging all his colleagues as well.
Un o'r effeithiau y gallai ymddiswyddiad Alun Cairns fel Ysgrifennydd Gwladol eu cael yw anfon neges glir a sylweddol at fenywod sy'n ystyried adrodd am drais y gellid defnyddio eu trawma drwy ymddangosiad llys i'w difrïo ac y gallai'r achos fethu, sef yn union yr hyn a ddigwyddodd yn yr achos hwn.
Ar adeg pan fo pob un ohonom yn gwybod bod cyfradd yr achosion trais sy'n llwyddiannus yn eithriadol o isel eisoes yn y DU ac yng Nghymru, credaf fod y niwed y gall yr achos amlwg iawn hwn ei wneud i leihau unrhyw bosibilrwydd y bydd menywod yn dymuno rhoi eu hunain drwy hyn yn fawr iawn. Hoffwn alw ar Alun Cairns i wneud y peth iawn yn yr achos hwn, oherwydd fe gefnogodd rywun gan wybod yn iawn, mae'n ymddangos, am yr hyn a wnaeth yr unigolyn hwnnw, a gwneud i'r fenyw honno ddioddef ail achos. Os nad yw un treial yn ddigon, mae dau achos yn erchyll.
Ac mae perygl gwirioneddol yma—ac rwy'n annog pawb i fod yn ofalus iawn yn yr hyn y maent yn ei wneud—o ddatgelu pwy yw'r dioddefwr, oherwydd dyna yw fy ofn yn hyn i gyd erbyn hyn, y gallai hynny ddigwydd rywsut. Rhaid i ni sicrhau'n bendant na fydd hynny'n digwydd. Felly, nid yw gwneud y peth iawn o ran ildio swydd y gallai fod wedi'i chael neu beidio mewn ychydig wythnosau yn fy modloni'n llwyr, ac rwy'n siŵr na fydd yn bodloni'r holl fenywod eraill hynny. Pe bai am wneud y peth iawn, byddai Alun Cairns, am ei rôl yn hyn, yn rhoi'r gorau i'w sedd, oherwydd yn fy marn i, nid yw'n gymwys i gynrychioli neb bellach mewn swydd gyhoeddus. A allwch chi ddychmygu sut y bydd yn ymdrin ag achosion o anghyfiawnder y gallai eu hwynebu yn y dyfodol? A allwch chi ddychmygu y byddai unrhyw fenyw ym Mro Morgannwg, a gynrychiolir ganddo, am fynd yn agos ato ef neu ei blaid ar hyn o bryd? Felly, os yw'r Torïaid—ac rwy'n credu'r hyn a ddywedodd Paul Davies ac rwy'n ei dderbyn yn llwyr—ond os yw'r Torïaid am ddweud eu bod yn malio mewn gwirionedd, ac rwy'n sôn am y Torïaid yn y DU a'u prif swyddfa, mae'n rhaid iddo fynd. Dyna'r unig ffordd ymlaen, oherwydd, yn anffodus, mae'r hyn y mae'n ei wneud yn niweidio'i holl gydweithwyr yn ogystal.
I thank Joyce Watson for those comments, and what she says really echoes the words of Christina Rees, of course, who has said that
'Alun Cairns stepping down as secretary of state is far from the end of the matter, and is a shoddy halfway house that will fool nobody.'
And she goes on to say that
'He has still not explained his behaviour and still not addressed the grave issues raised by the leaked emails yesterday.'
And he
'should do the right thing—apologise, and step down as a candidate.'
But I think the most important point that Joyce Watson has raised today is the importance of ensuring that women still have the confidence to come forward and to report things that have happened to them, to ensure that there is support available for those women, and also to ensure that the women involved can always have the confidence that their anonymity will be preserved at all times.
Diolch i Joyce Watson am y sylwadau hynny, ac mae'r hyn a ddywed yn adleisio geiriau Christina Rees, wrth gwrs, a ddywedodd
Nid yw'r ffaith bod Alun Cairns wedi camu i lawr fel Ysgrifennydd Gwladol yn ddiwedd ar y mater o bell ffordd, ac mae'n gam hanner ffordd gwael na fydd yn twyllo neb.
Ac mae'n mynd yn ei blaen i ddweud
Nid yw wedi egluro ei ymddygiad o hyd ac nid yw wedi mynd i'r afael â'r materion difrifol a godwyd gan y negeseuon e-bost a ddatgelwyd ddoe.
A
dylai wneud y peth iawn—ymddiheuro, ac ymddiswyddo fel ymgeisydd.
Ond credaf mai'r pwynt pwysicaf a gododd Joyce Watson heddiw yw pwysigrwydd sicrhau bod gan fenywod hyder i adrodd ac i roi gwybod am bethau sydd wedi digwydd iddynt, er mwyn sicrhau bod cymorth ar gael i'r menywod hynny, ac i sicrhau hefyd y gall y menywod dan sylw fod yn hyderus bob amser y perchir eu cyfrinachedd bob amser.
Finally, Alun Davies.
Yn olaf, Alun Davies.
I'm grateful to you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Can I associate myself with remarks made by Leanne Wood and by Joyce Watson in this session of questions? The whole matter, which has been the subject of public debate over the last week, has laid bare some very, very serious issues in terms of not just the behaviour of an individual, but of the role of the Secretary of State. I hope that we and the Welsh Government will be able to pursue matters, not only to protect the place of the victim in this, but also to ensure that, wherever we have the influence to do this—I'm pleased to see the Counsel General's in his place this afternoon—we protect the court system in Wales, to ensure that women do feel able to come forward in these cases.
But this also raises significant issues about the role of the Secretary of State, and I think, for some years, many of us have felt that the role of the Secretary of State is an anachronism in this current United Kingdom. Many of us have felt, and, particularly, I speak from my experience in Government, that there is no purpose to the office of the Wales Office or the office of the Secretary of State any further.
Finance Minister, you may not be aware, but a recent hearing by the external affairs committee spent an hour and a half debating relations between the Governments of the United Kingdom with Michael Gove, just before recess, and in that hour and a half, neither Michael Gove nor any member of that committee mentioned the Wales Office. I think that speaks volumes about how the Wales Office is actually recognised in today's United Kingdom. It is time for us to put in place inter-governmental machinery that ensures that all the Governments of the United Kingdom are able to work together for the benefit of all of us in the United Kingdom, and I hope that if anything comes out of this sorry business, that will at least be one thing that does come out of this, and I hope the Welsh Government can pursue that.
Rwy'n ddiolchgar i chi, Ddirprwy Lywydd. A gaf fi gysylltu fy hun â sylwadau Leanne Wood a Joyce Watson yn y sesiwn gwestiynau hon? Mae'r holl fater, sydd wedi bod yn destun dadl gyhoeddus yn ystod yr wythnos diwethaf, wedi datgelu rhai materion difrifol iawn, nid yn unig o ran ymddygiad unigolyn, ond o ran rôl yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol. Rwy'n gobeithio y byddwn ni a Llywodraeth Cymru yn gallu mynd ar drywydd materion, nid yn unig er mwyn diogelu'r dioddefwr yn hyn, ond hefyd i sicrhau, lle bynnag y mae gennym ddylanwad i wneud hyn—rwy'n falch o weld bod y Cwnsler Cyffredinol yn ei sedd y prynhawn yma—ein bod yn diogelu'r system llysoedd yng Nghymru, er mwyn sicrhau bod menywod yn teimlo y gallant roi gwybod am yr achosion hyn.
Ond mae hyn hefyd yn codi materion arwyddocaol ynglŷn â rôl yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol, ac rwy'n credu, ers rhai blynyddoedd, fod llawer ohonom wedi teimlo bod rôl yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol yn anacroniaeth yn y Deyrnas Unedig fel y mae. Mae llawer ohonom wedi teimlo, ac yn benodol, rwy'n siarad o fy mhrofiad i mewn Llywodraeth, nad oes diben i Swyddfa Cymru na swydd yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol mwyach.
Weinidog Cyllid, efallai nad ydych yn ymwybodol o hyn, ond treuliodd gwrandawiad yn ddiweddar gan y pwyllgor materion allanol awr a hanner yn trafod y berthynas rhwng Llywodraethau'r Deyrnas Unedig gyda Michael Gove ychydig cyn y toriad, ac yn yr awr a hanner honno, ni soniodd Michael Gove nac unrhyw aelod o'r pwyllgor hwnnw am Swyddfa Cymru. Rwy'n credu bod hynny'n dweud cyfrolau am y modd y mae Swyddfa Cymru yn cael ei chydnabod yn y Deyrnas Unedig heddiw. Mae'n bryd inni sefydlu peirianwaith rhynglywodraethol sy'n sicrhau y gall holl Lywodraethau'r Deyrnas Unedig weithio gyda'i gilydd er lles pob un ohonom yn y Deyrnas Unedig, ac rwy'n gobeithio, os daw unrhyw beth o'r busnes truenus hwn, y bydd hynny'n un peth, o leiaf, i ddod o hyn, ac rwy'n gobeithio y gall Llywodraeth Cymru fynd ar drywydd hynny.
Thank you to Alun Davies for raising that particular issue, and, of course, the First Minister recently set out his vision, if you like, for inter-governmental relationships amongst the constituent nations of the UK. I think it is really important that that system of relationships is underpinned by the machinery that will best suit our ambitions for the way in which we will relate to other parts of the UK.
Diolch i Alun Davies am godi'r mater penodol hwnnw, ac wrth gwrs, yn ddiweddar mae Prif Weinidog Cymru wedi nodi ei weledigaeth, os mynnwch, ar gyfer y berthynas rynglywodraethol rhwng gwledydd cyfansoddol y DU. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig iawn fod y system honno o gysylltiadau'n seiliedig ar y peirianwaith a fydd yn gweddu orau i'n huchelgeisiau ar gyfer y ffordd y byddwn yn ymwneud â rhannau eraill o'r DU.
Thank you very much, Trefnydd.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Drefnydd.
Item 6 on the agenda is the 90-second statements. The first this afternoon is from Vikki Howells.
Eitem 6 ar yr agenda yw'r datganiadau 90 eiliad. Daw'r cyntaf y prynhawn yma gan Vikki Howells.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. This is a 90-second statement about an ordinary teddy bear—an ordinary teddy bear thrown away, brought to life by a spotty man and given special powers by mother nature. Yes, this is a 90-second statement about SuperTed. SuperTed, the very first commission from S4C, first appeared on Welsh tv on 1 November 1982, so this month marks his thirty-seventh anniversary. An English language cartoon featuring the anthropomorphic action hero was broadcast the following year, which, from 4 October 1984, aired to the whole of the UK.
This terrific teddy was charged with taking the S4C logo worldwide. Indeed, the series was sold to over 70 countries. He was the first outside production ever bought by the Walt Disney Company, his heroics distributed on video and broadcast to the then brand-new Disney Channel.
SuperTed was the true Welsh tv star of the 1980s. The brave bear was the creation of Welsh writer and animator Mike Young. Famously, the charismatic character was created by Mike to help his son overcome his fear of darkness. Over 100 SuperTed books were published, which sold over 200,000 copies in the UK alone. He starred in educational programming. Who remembers Super Safe with SuperTed, the road-safety animation set in Cardiff? SuperTed appeared on stage, on children's vitamins, and he was even the first shirt sponsor for Cardiff City Football Club. What a legacy. Pen-blwydd hapus.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Mae hwn yn ddatganiad 90 eiliad am dedi cyffredin—tedi cyffredin a gafodd ei daflu, ei wneud yn fyw gan ddyn smotiog ac a gafodd bwerau arbennig gan fam natur. Ie, dyma ddatganiad 90 eiliad am SuperTed. Ymddangosodd SuperTed, y comisiwn cyntaf un gan S4C, ar deledu Cymraeg am y tro cyntaf ar 1 Tachwedd 1982, felly mae'r mis hwn yn nodi ei ben blwydd yn 37 oed. Darlledwyd cartŵn Saesneg yn adrodd stori'r arwr anthropomorffig y flwyddyn ganlynol, a chafodd ei ddarlledu, o 4 Hydref 1984 ymlaen i'r DU gyfan.
Roedd y tedi bendigedig hwn yn gyfrifol am ledaenu logo S4C drwy'r byd. Yn wir, gwerthwyd y gyfres i dros 70 o wledydd. Ef oedd y cynhyrchiad allanol cyntaf erioed a brynwyd gan Walt Disney Company, ac fe gafodd ei orchestion eu lledaenu ar fideo a'u darlledu ar Disney Channel a oedd yn newydd sbon ar y pryd.
SuperTed oedd gwir seren deledu Cymru'r 1980au. Crëwyd yr arth ddewr gan yr awdur a'r animeiddiwr Cymreig, Mike Young. Mae'n wybyddus i Mike greu'r cymeriad carismatig i helpu ei fab i oresgyn ei ofn o'r tywyllwch. Cyhoeddwyd dros 100 o lyfrau SuperTed, a werthodd dros 200,000 o gopïau yn y DU yn unig. Serennodd mewn rhaglenni addysgol. Pwy sy'n cofio Super Safe with SuperTed, y set animeiddio diogelwch ffyrdd yng Nghaerdydd? Ymddangosodd SuperTed ar y llwyfan, ar fitaminau i blant, ac ef oedd noddwr cyntaf crysau Clwb Pêl-Droed Dinas Caerdydd hyd yn oed. Am waddol. Pen-blwydd hapus.
Nick Ramsay.
Nick Ramsay.
I have to beat that. [Laughter.] Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. How do you beat that?
This week marks another anniversary—the seventieth anniversary of my home town, the designation of Cwmbran as a new town, the first and only mark one new town to be built in Wales under the New Towns Act 1946.
Growing up in the 1980s in the Llanyrafon area of the town, on the western edge of the Monmouth constituency, I was very aware that the place I called home was somehow different and became fascinated by the vision of a brighter future that had inspired the postwar urban planners. That vision had itself grown out the ideas of Ebenezer Howard, the founder of the Victorian garden city movement and author of To-morrow: a Peaceful Path to Real Reform. It espoused new communities, benefiting from clean air, open space and good-quality housing, all in short supply in postwar Britain.
In Cwmbran, it also included the innovation of a fully pedestrianised town centre, with free parking, which would eventually, upon the winding up of Cwmbran Development Corporation, become the first privately owned town centre in the UK. Originally envisaged as a community of 35,000 people, Cwmbran has actually grown to nearer 50,000 people. As a result of this expansion, there are now many more people who have made the new town their home.
It has been 70 years since the then Minister of Town and Country Planning, Lewis Silkin, said to the chair of the committee of the Cabinet, Herbert Morrison:
'I think we can build a very good new town here'.
Many would say that history has proved him right. Happy birthday, Cwmbran.
Mae'n rhaid i mi guro hynny. [Chwerthin.] Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Sut y mae rhywun yn curo hynny?
Mae'r wythnos hon yn nodi pen-blwydd arall—sef pen-blwydd fy nhref enedigol yn 70 oed, dynodiad Cwmbrân yn dref newydd, y dref gyntaf a'r unig dref newydd, ar wahân i un, i gael ei hadeiladu yng Nghymru o dan Ddeddf Trefi Newydd 1946.
Wrth dyfu i fyny yn y 1980au yn ardal Llanyrafon o'r dref, ar gyrion gorllewinol etholaeth Trefynwy, roeddwn yn ymwybodol iawn fod y lle roeddwn yn ei alw'n gartref rywsut yn wahanol ac fe'm swynwyd gan y weledigaeth o ddyfodol mwy disglair a ysbrydolodd y cynllunwyr trefol ar ôl y rhyfel. Roedd y weledigaeth honno wedi tyfu o syniadau Ebenezer Howard, sylfaenydd mudiad y gardd-ddinasoedd Fictoraidd ac awdur To-morrow: a Peaceful Path to Real Reform. Roedd yn cefnogi creu cymunedau newydd i elwa ar aer glân, mannau agored a thai o ansawdd da, pethau prin ym Mhrydain ar ôl y rhyfel.
Yng Nghwmbrân, roedd hefyd yn cynnwys gwaith arloesol i bedestreiddio canol y dref yn llwyr, gyda pharcio am ddim, ac yn y pen draw, ar ôl i Gorfforaeth Datblygu Cwmbrân ddod i ben, daeth yn ganol tref cyntaf y DU i fod mewn dwylo preifat. Fe'i rhagwelwyd yn wreiddiol fel cymuned o 35,000 o bobl, ond mae Cwmbrân wedi tyfu i fod yn agosach at 50,000 o bobl mewn gwirionedd. O ganlyniad i'r ehangu hwn, mae llawer mwy o bobl bellach wedi gwneud y dref newydd yn gartref iddynt.
Mae 70 o flynyddoedd wedi bod ers i'r Gweinidog Cynllunio Gwlad a Thref ar y pryd, Lewis Silkin, ddweud wrth gadeirydd pwyllgor y Cabinet, Herbert Morrison:
Rwy'n credu y gallwn adeiladu tref newydd dda iawn yma.
Byddai llawer yn dweud bod hanes wedi'i brofi'n gywir. Pen-blwydd hapus, Cwmbrân.
Item 7 on our agenda is a motion to vary the order of consideration for amendments at Stage 3 of the Senedd and Elections (Wales) Bill. Can I call on a Member of the Business Committee to move the motion? Darren.
Eitem 7 ar ein hagenda yw cynnig i amrywio trefn ystyried gwelliannau Cyfnod 3 y Bil Senedd ac Etholiadau (Cymru). A gaf fi alw ar Aelod o'r Pwyllgor Busnes i wneud y cynnig? Darren.
Cynnig NDM7175 Elin Jones
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 26.36:
Yn cytuno i waredu’r adrannau a’r Atodlenni i’r Bil Senedd ac Etholiadau (Cymru) yng Nghyfnod 3 yn y drefn ganlynol:
a) adrannau 2 i 9,
b) Atodlen 1,
c) adrannau 10 i 28,
d) Atodlen 2,
e) adran 29,
f) Atodlen 3,
g) adrannau 30 i 41,
h) adran 1,
i) Teitl hir.
Motion NDM7175 Elin Jones
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 26.36:
Agrees to dispose of sections and Schedules to the Senedd and Elections (Wales) Bill at Stage 3 in the following order:
a) sections 2 to 9,
b) Schedule 1,
c) sections 10 to 28,
d) Schedule 2,
e) section 29,
f) Schedule 3,
g) sections 30 to 41,
h) section 1,
i) Long title.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Move.
Rwy'n cynnig.
Thank you very much. I have no speakers. Therefore, the proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Nid oes gennyf unrhyw siaradwyr. Felly, y cynnig yw derbyn y cynnig. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Na. Felly, derbynnir y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Item 8 on our agenda this afternoon is a debate on the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee Report: 'Hepatitis C: Progress towards achieving elimination in Wales'. And I call on Helen Mary Jones to move the motion on behalf of the committee. Helen Mary.
Eitem 8 ar ein hagenda y prynhawn yma yw dadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Chwaraeon: 'Hepatitis C: Cynnydd tuag at ei ddileu yng Nghymru'. A galwaf ar Helen Mary Jones i gyflwyno'r cynnig ar ran y pwyllgor. Helen Mary.
Cynnig NDM7174 Dai Lloyd
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:
Yn nodi adroddiad y Pwyllgor Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Chwaraeon ar Hepatitis C: Cynnydd tuag at ei ddileu yng Nghymru, a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 27 Mehefin 2019.
Motion NDM7174 Dai Lloyd
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
Notes the report of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee: Hepatitis C: Progress towards achieving elimination in Wales, which was laid in the Table Office on 27 June 2019.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. Thank you very much indeed, Deputy Presiding Officer. I stand here, of course, in place of our much-beloved colleague, Dr Dai Lloyd, who is currently not very well. I certainly can't hope to imitate his inimitable style. I'm sure that all Members in this Chamber will join me in wishing Dai a swift and speedy recovery, and all I can do is attempt to fill his shoes on behalf of the committee, knowing, of course, that this is completely beyond me.
I'm very pleased to take part in this debate today, on behalf of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, on our report on the progress towards achieving the elimination of hepatitis C in Wales. This is the third of a series of short, focused spotlight inquiries that have been undertaken by the committee, and we're all very grateful to all of those who gave evidence and, as always, to the excellent team that supports our committee's work.
The committee agreed to undertake this one-day inquiry to investigate the work currently being undertaken to eliminate hepatitis C in Wales by the target date of 2030. The World Health Organization estimates that 71 million people in the world have chronic hepatitis C infections, and of the 21,000 who live in the UK, 12,000 to 14,000 live in Wales. That's a great number of our fellow citizens affected by this condition.
We know, of course, that hepatitis C affects disadvantaged and marginalised communities, including homeless people and migrant communities particularly, with almost half of the people who attend hospital with this virus coming from the poorest fifth of society.
Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Diolch yn fawr iawn, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n sefyll yma, wrth gwrs, yn lle ein cyd-Aelod annwyl, Dr Dai Lloyd, oherwydd nid yw'n dda iawn ar hyn o bryd. Yn sicr, ni allaf obeithio dynwared ei arddull unigryw. Rwy'n siŵr y bydd yr holl Aelodau yn y Siambr hon yn ymuno â mi i ddymuno gwellhad buan a chyflym i Dai, a'r cyfan y gallaf ei wneud yw ceisio llenwi ei esgidiau ar ran y pwyllgor, gan wybod, wrth gwrs, fod hyn y tu hwnt i mi yn llwyr.
Rwy'n falch iawn o gymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon heddiw ar ran y Pwyllgor Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Chwaraeon, ar ein hadroddiad ar y cynnydd a wnaed tuag at ddileu hepatitis C yng Nghymru. Dyma'r drydedd mewn cyfres o ymchwiliadau sbotolau byr a phenodol a gynhaliwyd gan y pwyllgor, ac rydym i gyd yn ddiolchgar iawn i bawb a roddodd dystiolaeth ac fel bob amser, i'r tîm rhagorol sy'n cefnogi gwaith ein pwyllgor.
Cytunodd y pwyllgor i gynnal yr ymchwiliad undydd hwn i ymchwilio i'r gwaith sy'n cael ei wneud ar hyn o bryd i ddileu hepatitis C yng Nghymru erbyn y dyddiad targed, sef 2030. Mae Sefydliad Iechyd y Byd yn amcangyfrif bod gan 71 miliwn o bobl yn y byd heintiau hepatitis C cronig, ac o'r 21,000 sy'n byw yn y DU, mae 12,000 i 14,000 yn byw yng Nghymru. Felly mae'r cyflwr hwn yn effeithio ar nifer fawr o'n cyd-ddinasyddion.
Rydym yn gwybod, wrth gwrs, fod hepatitis C yn effeithio ar gymunedau difreintiedig ac ymylol, gan gynnwys pobl ddigartref a chymunedau mudol yn enwedig, gyda bron i hanner y bobl sy'n mynd i'r ysbyty gyda'r feirws yn dod o'r bumed ran dlotaf o'r gymdeithas.
Key things emerged in our inquiry. We know, of course, that Wales is signed up to the World Health Organization's global health sector strategy, which aims to eliminate hepatitis C by 2030. One of the tragedies, of course, of the large number of people living with this condition is that it is now completely curable. Whilst this is welcome—the signing up is welcome—a number of witnesses to our inquiry expressed concerns about whether we will meet those targets. The committee heard that not all local health boards are meeting the targets, and that both diagnosis and treatment rates will have to increase significantly in Wales if we are to achieve the 2030 target. We heard anecdotal evidence of local health board finance directors discouraging hepatology teams from exceeding the treatment targets because of financial concerns. This approach will only result in greater financial cost in the long run, and is not compatible with Wales achieving the elimination target. It is vital that caps are not placed on local treatment targets by health boards. National treatment targets should be seen as a basic minimum floor, which health boards should be aiming to exceed.
The message from witnesses is clear—that knowledge and awareness of hepatitis C amongst the public remains low, reflected in roughly 50 per cent of patients being undiagnosed. A UK-wide poll commissioned by the Hepatitis C Trust highlighted that, of the 80 per cent who were aware of hepatitis C, less than 40 per cent knew that it affects the liver, and less than 30 per cent knew that the virus is now curable.
The committee heard that outdated information is still prevalent amongst at-risk groups, and, as such, some patients are fearful about coming forward to access healthcare, because of the difficult nature of the previous treatments. Increasing public awareness and knowledge of the virus through the development of a Government-backed awareness campaign, targeted to specialist at-risk groups, may help to reduce the effects on those who are affected by the virus. Public Health Wales told the committee that, since the Welsh Government introduced a formal policy of opt-out testing for blood-borne viruses for all those on admission to prison in 2016, the uptake of testing has increased from 8 per cent to 34 per cent. This is encouraging, and it has been a big improvement, and, in time, hopefully, Public Health Wales will reach the target of 100 per cent. However, witnesses highlighted a lack of resources for testing in prisons, and stated that, in order to make prisons HCV-free, additional resourcing and staffing is required. Recruitment and retention were also issues that were highlighted by witnesses, with some stating that lack of staff was preventing prisoners from being tested promptly.
Knowledge and awareness amongst some health professionals is an ongoing issue that must be addressed. The committee heard that patients reported less positive experiences with health professionals, such as GP and non-specialist nurses, with many saying that they had not, in fact, been offered tests. Others stated that they'd encountered low levels of knowledge of the virus from health professionals, often being given inaccurate or outdated information and advice. The Hepatitis C Trust recognises that initiatives that have been introduced to provide educational support to healthcare professionals are valuable, but says that more needs to be done. Witnesses called for protected learning time for such health professionals, and for more awareness raising. We heard that such training does not need to be time-consuming and much of it can be delivered online.
The message from witnesses was that Wales has an excellent opportunity to become the first country in the UK to eliminate this disease. However, without urgent additional action to address the uncertainty relating to the strategy and funding post 2021, the fear is that the opportunity may be lost.
So, these were our four recommendations—that the Welsh Government should produce a comprehensive, national elimination strategy for hepatitis C, with clear and ambitious targets and workforce planning built in, and provide substantial funding until the elimination is achieved. This must be done as a matter of urgency, given that the current plan ends this year, and funding for dedicated posts is only available until 2021.
Our second recommendation is that the strategy must include a targeted awareness-raising campaign to reach out to at-risk communities, and to provide additional education and training for health professionals. The Welsh Government, for our third recommendation, must write to local health board finance directors and chief executives to emphasise that the national targets for treatment for hepatitis C must be considered as a minimum and be exceeded where possible. And the Welsh Government, for our fourth recommendation, should provide additional investment to improve hepatitis testing in prisons.
We are somewhat disappointed that the Welsh Government has only chosen to fully accept one of these recommendations. We're grateful that the other recommendations have been accepted in principle. But, in fact, the Government has only agreed to write to the finance directors and the chief executives, and their response says that there are other ways to address the issues that our report raises. I will be interested to hear what the Minister has to say today, but I would urge him to look once again at our recommendations, which are strongly evidence based, and the need for a strong central lead on this is vital.
Daeth pethau allweddol i'r amlwg yn ein hymchwiliad. Gwyddom, wrth gwrs, fod Cymru wedi ymrwymo i strategaeth sector iechyd byd-eang Sefydliad Iechyd y byd, sy'n anelu at ddileu hepatitis C erbyn 2030. Un o'r trasiedïau, wrth gwrs, o ystyried y nifer fawr o bobl sy'n byw gyda'r cyflwr hwn, yw fod modd ei wella'n llwyr bellach. Er bod hyn i'w groesawu—mae'r ymrwymiad i'w groesawu—mynegodd nifer o dystion i'n hymchwiliad bryderon ynglŷn ag a fyddwn yn cyrraedd y targedau hynny. Clywodd y pwyllgor nad yw pob bwrdd iechyd lleol yn cyrraedd y targedau, ac y bydd yn rhaid i gyfraddau diagnosis a thriniaeth gynyddu'n sylweddol yng Nghymru os ydym am gyrraedd y targed 2030. Clywsom dystiolaeth anecdotaidd fod cyfarwyddwyr cyllid byrddau iechyd lleol yn atal timau hepatoleg rhag rhagori ar y targedau triniaeth oherwydd pryderon ariannol. Ni fydd y dull hwn o weithredu ond yn arwain at fwy o gost ariannol yn y tymor hir, ac nid yw'n gydnaws â sicrhau bod Cymru'n cyrraedd y targed dileu. Mae'n hanfodol nad yw byrddau iechyd yn gosod capiau ar dargedau triniaeth lleol. Dylid ystyried targedau triniaeth cenedlaethol fel lleiafswm sylfaenol, a dylai byrddau iechyd anelu at ragori arno.
Mae'r neges gan y tystion yn glir—fod gwybodaeth ac ymwybyddiaeth o hepatitis C ymhlith y cyhoedd yn parhau i fod yn isel, ac adlewyrchir hynny yn y ffaith bod tua 50 y cant o gleifion heb gael diagnosis. Mewn arolwg DU gyfan a gomisiynwyd gan yr Ymddiriedolaeth Hepatitis C, nodwyd bod llai na 40 y cant o'r 80 y cant a oedd yn ymwybodol o hepatitis C yn gwybod ei fod yn effeithio ar yr afu, a bod llai na 30 y cant yn gwybod bod modd gwella'r feirws bellach.
Clywodd y pwyllgor fod gwybodaeth sydd wedi dyddio yn amlwg o hyd ymhlith grwpiau sydd mewn perygl, ac o'r herwydd, mae rhai cleifion yn ofnus ynglŷn â gofyn am ofal iechyd, oherwydd natur anodd y triniaethau blaenorol. Gall cynyddu ymwybyddiaeth a gwybodaeth y cyhoedd am y feirws drwy ddatblygu ymgyrch ymwybyddiaeth wedi'i chefnogi gan y Llywodraeth, ac wedi'i thargedu at grwpiau penodol sydd mewn perygl, helpu i leihau'r effeithiau ar y rhai yr effeithiwyd arnynt gan y feirws. Dywedodd Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru wrth y pwyllgor, ers i Lywodraeth Cymru gyflwyno polisi ffurfiol o gynnig prawf optio allan ar gyfer feirysau a gludir yn y gwaed i bawb sy'n cael eu derbyn i'r carchar yn 2016, fod y nifer sy'n cael eu profi wedi cynyddu o 8 y cant i 34 y cant. Mae hyn yn galonogol, ac mae wedi bod yn welliant mawr, ac ymhen amser, gobeithio, bydd Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru yn cyrraedd y targed o 100 y cant. Fodd bynnag, tynnodd y tystion sylw at ddiffyg adnoddau ar gyfer cynnal profion mewn carchardai, ac er mwyn cael gwared ar feirws hepatitis C mewn carchardai, roeddent yn dweud bod angen adnoddau a staff ychwanegol. Roedd recriwtio a chadw staff hefyd yn faterion a gafodd sylw gan dystion, gyda rhai'n nodi bod diffyg staff yn atal carcharorion rhag cael profion prydlon.
Mae gwybodaeth ac ymwybyddiaeth ymhlith rhai gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol yn broblem barhaus sy'n rhaid ei datrys. Clywodd y pwyllgor fod cleifion yn cael profiadau llai cadarnhaol gyda gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol, megis meddygon teulu a nyrsys anarbenigol, gyda llawer yn dweud nad oeddent wedi cael cynnig profion mewn gwirionedd. Dywedodd eraill eu bod wedi dod ar draws lefelau isel o wybodaeth am y feirws gan weithwyr iechyd proffesiynol, a'u bod yn aml yn cael gwybodaeth a chyngor a oedd yn wallus neu wedi dyddio. Mae Ymddiriedolaeth Hepatitis C yn cydnabod bod mentrau a gyflwynwyd i ddarparu cymorth addysgol i weithwyr gofal iechyd proffesiynol yn werthfawr, ond mae'n dweud bod angen gwneud rhagor. Galwodd tystion am amser dysgu wedi'i ddiogelu ar gyfer gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol o'r fath, ac am fwy o godi ymwybyddiaeth. Clywsom nad oes angen i hyfforddiant o'r fath gymryd llawer o amser a bod modd cyflwyno llawer ohono ar-lein.
Y neges gan dystion oedd fod gan Gymru gyfle gwych i ddod yn wlad gyntaf y DU i gael gwared ar y clefyd hwn. Fodd bynnag, heb gamau ychwanegol ar frys i fynd i'r afael â'r ansicrwydd sy'n ymwneud â'r strategaeth a chyllido ar ôl 2021, ofnir y gallai'r cyfle gael ei golli.
Felly, dyma oedd ein pedwar argymhelliad—y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru greu strategaeth ddileu genedlaethol, gynhwysfawr ar gyfer hepatitis C, yn cynnwys targedau uchelgeisiol clir a chynllunio ar gyfer y gweithlu, a dylai ddarparu cyllid sylweddol hyd nes y caiff yr haint ei ddileu. Rhaid gwneud hyn yn ddiymdroi, o gofio y bydd y cynllun presennol yn dod i ben eleni, ac mai dim ond tan 2021 y mae cyllid wedi’i gadarnhau ar gyfer swyddi penodol.
Ein hail argymhelliad yw fod yn rhaid i’r strategaeth gynnwys ymgyrch codi ymwybyddiaeth wedi’i thargedu er mwyn cyrraedd cymunedau sy’n wynebu risg, ynghyd â darparu addysg a hyfforddiant ychwanegol i weithwyr iechyd proffesiynol. Ein trydydd argymhelliad yw fod yn rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru ysgrifennu at gyfarwyddwyr cyllid a phrif weithredwyr y byrddau iechyd lleol i bwysleisio bod yn rhaid ystyried y targedau triniaeth cenedlaethol ar gyfer hepatitis C fel y targedau mwyaf sylfaenol, gyda’r nod o ragori arnynt lle bynnag y bo modd. Ein pedwerydd argymhelliad yw y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru wneud buddsoddiad ychwanegol er mwyn gwella’r profion am hepatitis C mewn carchardai yng Nghymru.
Rydym braidd yn siomedig mai dim ond un o'r argymhellion hyn y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi dewis ei dderbyn yn llawn. Rydym yn ddiolchgar fod yr argymhellion eraill wedi'u derbyn mewn egwyddor. Ond mewn gwirionedd, nid yw'r Llywodraeth ond wedi cytuno i ysgrifennu at y cyfarwyddwyr cyllid a'r prif weithredwyr, ac mae eu hymateb yn dweud bod ffyrdd eraill o fynd i'r afael â'r materion y mae ein hadroddiad yn tynnu sylw atynt. Rwy'n awyddus i glywed yr hyn sydd gan y Gweinidog i'w ddweud heddiw, ond buaswn yn ei annog i edrych unwaith eto ar ein hargymhellion, sy'n seiliedig ar dystiolaeth gref, ac mae'r angen am arweiniad canolog cryf ar hyn yn hanfodol.
In many ways, the hepatitis C story in Wales is incredibly optimistic. We have a disease before us, or a condition before us, that is almost entirely curable, and we are within striking distance—if we apply ourselves—to being able to wipe this out. And I think that any illness or condition that we can wipe out—polio being one of them—is something that we should all celebrate, and we can do this with hep C if we all bend our minds to the task. And, Minister, I absolutely recognise that there have been some amazing strides forward in trying to eradicate hep C, or reverse hep C, in individuals. I think there have been some good strides forward in tackling certain members of our population, certain target groups, certain ethnic groups, where there's a prevalence. There have been strides forward in reducing people who use drugs and in their contamination with hepatitis C. But, of course, it's one of those things where, as you bash down one dragon's head, up comes another.
And I found one of the very interesting things that came forward from this report is how we are beginning to see more instances of people developing hepatitis C from some of the more modern things today, like having Botox fillers, about going to sports clubs and having steroid injections. And so, Minister, what I'd like to do is ask you a couple of questions first of all around what else you're going to put in place in terms of things like syringe programmes, steroid clinics. There are 270 needle and syringe programmes throughout Wales—do we need more, how will we fund it? What about the idea of having steroid clinics, so that people can understand that there's no stigma to being able to go forward and to get that treatment? Because, of course, like all these things, it's about taking away the stigma. So, very, very positive news, but we had to do this report because it is only a job half done. And I was very concerned to see that, in this report, some of our recommendations were just to be accepted in principle. And I've kind of come to the conclusion, after my years here as an Assembly Member, that, when a Government says 'accept in principle', it is always a euphemism for kicking something out to the long grass. So, I'd just like to go through some of these 'accept in principle' comments that you have.
Now, Helen Mary has already talked about recommendation 3, which you've accepted totally, which was the one about accepting the World Health Organization 2030 target. I would like to understand why you haven't followed the Scottish one of 2024, or the UK one of 2025. I just find it very interesting—we're a small country, we can get to people quickly, and I'd like to understand your reasons here. I would like to understand how the health boards will actually deliver the hep C treatment targets that are due to be introduced in April. Can we add these targets to the NHS activity and performance summary dashboard, as a way of formally monitoring progress towards elimination? You spoke in a previous set of questions about the need to have robust data, and how you felt that data was good, and I agree with you—I think that data helps us to drive our public health policy. Are we able to add that to the dashboard? Will you commit to the production of a new Welsh health circular?
I'd also like to talk about recommendation 2, and the targeted awareness-raising campaign. Now, I know from slightly bitter experience that the Government is actually quite reluctant to undertake targeted awareness raising campaigns—I've talked to you in the past about sepsis—because you feel that national campaigns sometimes do not achieve their aims. But we've hit this barrier before, and I'd like to really understand why you will not go forward with a targeted awareness-raising campaign. It's been recommended by all the players in this area—the people who go out there and actually have to deliver these services on the ground, they believe that this is a good way forward, the committee believe it's a good way forward, professionals believe it's a good way forward, but the Welsh Government doesn't. I need to really understand and would appreciate an explanation on that.
Additional investment into prisons—now, Helen Mary has already touched upon it, but we've done quite a number of reports recently about care for prisoners, about reintegrating people into the community, about ensuring that we have minimal reoffending rates. Letting someone come out of prison feeling in good health, with a good future, a roof over their head, and a pathway forward is one of the key ways of stopping reoffending. And I simply would like to ask you to revisit your investment in prisons, because we need to get prisoner health up so that when they leave those prisons they have a better chance of staying out and a lesser chance of recidivism. Thank you.
Mewn sawl ffordd, mae stori hepatitis C yng Nghymru yn hynod optimistaidd. Mae gennym glefyd o'n blaenau, neu gyflwr o'n blaenau, sydd bron yn gwbl welladwy, ac rydym o fewn cyrraedd—os ymrown i hyn—i allu ei ddileu. A chredaf fod unrhyw salwch neu gyflwr y gallwn ei ddileu—mae polio yn un ohonynt—yn rhywbeth y dylai pawb ohonom ei ddathlu, a gallwn wneud hyn gyda hep C os bydd pob un ohonom yn ymroi i'r dasg. Weinidog, rwy'n cydnabod yn llwyr fod camau breision wedi'u cymryd i geisio dileu hep C, neu wrthdroi hep C, mewn unigolion. Rwy'n credu bod camau da wedi'u cymryd i fynd i'r afael â rhai aelodau o'n poblogaeth, grwpiau targed penodol, grwpiau ethnig penodol, lle ceir nifer uwch o achosion. Mae camau breision wedi'u cymryd i leihau nifer y bobl sy'n defnyddio cyffuriau ac yn cael eu heintio â hepatitis C. Ond wrth gwrs, mae'n un o'r pethau hynny lle, wrth i chi dorri pen un ddraig, mae draig arall yn codi.
Un peth diddorol iawn sydd wedi deillio o'r adroddiad hwn yw sut rydym yn dechrau gweld mwy o achosion o bobl yn datblygu hepatitis C o ganlyniad i bethau mwy modern heddiw, fel llenwyr Botox, mynd i glybiau chwaraeon i gael pigiadau steroid. Ac felly, Weinidog, yr hyn yr hoffwn ei wneud yw gofyn cwestiwn neu ddau i chi yn gyntaf ynglŷn â beth arall y bwriadwch ei roi ar waith o ran pethau fel rhaglenni chwistrellau, clinigau steroid. Mae 270 o raglenni nodwyddau a chwistrellau ledled Cymru—a oes angen mwy, sut y byddwn yn eu hariannu? Beth am y syniad o gael clinigau steroid, er mwyn i bobl allu deall nad oes stigma i allu mynd i gael y driniaeth honno? Oherwydd, wrth gwrs, fel yr holl bethau hyn, mae'n ymwneud â dileu'r stigma. Felly mae hwnnw'n newyddion cadarnhaol iawn, ond roedd yn rhaid inni wneud yr adroddiad hwn oherwydd mai hanner y gwaith yn unig sydd wedi'i wneud. Ac roeddwn yn bryderus iawn i weld, yn yr adroddiad hwn, mai mewn egwyddor yn unig y cafodd rhai o'n hargymhellion eu derbyn. Ac rwyf wedi dod i'r casgliad, ar ôl treulio blynyddoedd yma fel Aelod Cynulliad, pan fo Llywodraeth yn dweud 'derbyn mewn egwyddor', mai ffordd arall o ddweud eu bod am wthio rhywbeth i'r naill ochr ydyw. Felly, hoffwn grybwyll rhai o'r sylwadau sydd gennych ynglŷn â 'derbyn mewn egwyddor'.
Nawr, mae Helen Mary eisoes wedi sôn am argymhelliad 3 a dderbyniwyd yn llwyr gennych, sef yr un am dderbyn targed Sefydliad Iechyd y Byd ar gyfer 2030. Hoffwn ddeall pam nad ydych wedi dilyn targed yr Alban, sef 2024, neu darged y DU, sef 2025. Mae'n ddiddorol iawn i mi—mae Cymru'n wlad fach, gallwn gyrraedd pobl yn gyflym, a hoffwn ddeall eich rhesymau yma. Hoffwn ddeall sut y bydd y byrddau iechyd yn cyflawni'r targedau triniaeth hep C y disgwylir iddynt gael eu cyflwyno ym mis Ebrill. A allwn ni ychwanegu'r targedau hyn at ddangosfwrdd cryno'r GIG ar gyfer gweithgaredd a pherfformiad fel ffordd o fonitro'r cynnydd tuag at ddileu hepatitis c yn ffurfiol? Fe sonioch chi mewn cyfres flaenorol o gwestiynau am yr angen i gael data cadarn, a sut y teimlech fod data'n dda, ac rwy'n cytuno â chi—credaf fod data'n ein helpu i yrru ein polisi iechyd cyhoeddus. A allwn ychwanegu hwnnw at y dangosfwrdd? A wnewch chi ymrwymo i gynhyrchu cylchlythyr iechyd newydd i Gymru?
Hoffwn siarad am argymhelliad 2 hefyd, a'r ymgyrch codi ymwybyddiaeth wedi'i thargedu. Nawr, rwy'n gwybod o brofiad ychydig yn chwerw fod y Llywodraeth yn eithaf amharod i gynnal ymgyrchoedd codi ymwybyddiaeth wedi'u targedu mewn gwirionedd—rwyf wedi siarad â chi yn y gorffennol am sepsis—oherwydd eich bod yn teimlo weithiau nad yw ymgyrchoedd cenedlaethol yn cyflawni eu nodau. Ond rydym wedi wynebu'r rhwystr hwn o'r blaen, a hoffwn ddeall yn iawn pam na fyddwch yn bwrw ymlaen ag ymgyrch codi ymwybyddiaeth wedi'i thargedu. Mae wedi cael ei argymell gan bawb sy'n rhan o'r maes hwn—y bobl sy'n gorfod darparu'r gwasanaethau hyn ar lawr gwlad, maent yn credu bod hon yn ffordd dda ymlaen, mae'r pwyllgor yn credu ei bod yn ffordd dda ymlaen, mae gweithwyr proffesiynol yn credu ei bod yn ffordd dda ymlaen, ond nid yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn credu hynny. Mae angen imi ddeall hyn yn iawn a buaswn yn gwerthfawrogi esboniad ar hynny.
O ran buddsoddiad ychwanegol mewn carchardai—nawr, mae Helen Mary eisoes wedi crybwyll hyn, ond rydym wedi gwneud cryn dipyn o adroddiadau yn ddiweddar am ofal i garcharorion, am ailintegreiddio pobl i'r gymuned, am sicrhau bod gennym gyfraddau aildroseddu isel. Gadael i rywun ddod allan o'r carchar yn teimlo'n iach, gyda dyfodol da, to dros eu pennau, a llwybr ymlaen yw un o'r ffyrdd allweddol o atal aildroseddu. Ac yn syml, hoffwn ofyn ichi ailystyried eich buddsoddiad mewn carchardai, oherwydd mae angen inni wella iechyd carcharorion fel bod gwell gobaith, pan fyddant yn gadael y carchar, y byddant yn aros allan, a llai o berygl y byddant yn aildroseddu. Diolch.
Dwi'n falch iawn o allu cyfrannu at y ddadl yma, er nad oeddwn yn aelod o'r pwyllgor iechyd yn ystod yr ymchwiliad ei hun. Mi oedd hwn yn bwnc roeddwn i'n awyddus iawn i'r pwyllgor ymchwilio iddo fo pan oeddwn i yn aelod, ac roeddwn i'n croesawu'n fawr cyhoeddi'r adroddiad ar y pwnc pwysig iawn yma.
Mae cyfle gwirioneddol gennym ni yma yng Nghymru i gyrraedd y nod syml ond hynod, hynod gyffrous o ddileu hepatitis C yn gyfan gwbl. Oes, mae yna ymrwymiad gan Sefydliad Iechyd y Byd i'w waredu erbyn 2030, ond mi allen ni yng Nghymru symud ar amserlen dynnach na hynny. Mae Lloegr a'r Alban eisoes wedi gosod targedau llymach iddyn nhw eu hunain, ac mae Ymddiriedolaeth Hepatitis C wedi dweud, fel dywedon nhw wrth y pwyllgor, am fod Cymru â nifer cymharol fach o bobl i ddod o hyd iddyn nhw a'u trin, mi all Cymru fod y wlad gyntaf yn y Deyrnas Unedig i ddileu'r haint. Ond, wrth gwrs, mae angen strategaeth gref iawn er mwyn gwneud hynny, ac mae'n siomedig iawn darllen casgliad y pwyllgor nad ydym ni ar y trywydd iawn i gyrraedd targed dileu erbyn 2030 hyd yn oed, ar hyn o bryd.
Y gred ydy bod o bosib hanner y rheini yng Nghymru sydd â hepatitis C ddim wedi cael diagnosis eto, yn rhannol oherwydd natur asymptomatig hep C, felly mae pobl weithiau yn cael cam ddiagnosis. Efallai nad yw pobl yn ymwybodol eu bod nhw mewn categori risg—pobl, o bosib, sydd wedi defnyddio cyffuriau yn y gorffennol a heb wneud hynny ers degawdau o bosib ac yn meddwl bod y perig wedi pasio; o bosib defnyddwyr cyffuriau neu chwistrellu i wella delwedd neu berfformiad mewn chwaraeon, hyd yn oed—pobl sydd ddim yn ystyried eu bod nhw yn defnyddio chwistrelliadau mewn ffordd fudr mewn rhyw ffordd, ac felly nad ydynt â mynediad chwaith at wasanaethau camddefnyddio sylweddau ac yn colli allan ar y negeseuon pwysig sy'n cael eu rhannu yn y cyd-destunau hynny.
Felly, dwi'n croesawu argymhelliad y pwyllgor am i'r strategaeth gynnwys ymgyrch codi ymwybyddiaeth wedi'i thargedu er mwyn cyrraedd pobl sydd yn wynebu risg, yn ogystal hefyd â darparu addysg a hyfforddiant i weithwyr iechyd proffesiynol. Mi ddaeth yn glir iawn i fi dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf mai'r her fawr ydy nid i wella pobl sydd â'r haint ond i ddod o hyd i'r bobl sydd â'r haint sydd ddim yn gwybod hynny. Mae'r Llywodraeth ei hunan yn cyfaddef yn ei hymateb i argymhelliad y pwyllgor fod cleifion yn anodd iawn i'w cyrraedd. Felly, gadewch inni ddefnyddio pob modd i geisio'u cyrraedd nhw, p'un ai drwy adael i bobl wybod pwy allai fod mewn perig; defnyddio pob cyfle i brofi; gwella profion am hepatitis C mewn carchardai yng Nghymru, er enghraifft, fel mae'r adroddiad yn ei argymell; hefyd efallai edrych ar gyfleoedd eraill—profi pawb wrth iddyn nhw gofrestru efo meddyg teulu, ac yn y blaen. Mae yna bob mathau o ffyrdd i estyn allan at bobl, ac mi ddylai ymgyrch ymwybyddiaeth hefyd adael i bobl wybod pa mor hawdd ydy trin—a pha mor hawdd ydy gwneud y prawf yn y lle cyntaf, ond pa mor hawdd ydy trin hefyd o ganfod hepatitis C yn ddigon cynnar.
Mae yna waith da a sylfeini cryf wedi cael eu gosod yn barod mewn llawer ffordd, a dwi'n diolch i'r rheini o fewn y gyfundrefn iechyd ag elusennau ac yn y blaen am y camau bras maen nhw wedi eu sicrhau sydd wedi digwydd yn barod o ran hyn. Ond mae'n rhaid inni wneud yn siŵr bod ymrwymiad gan y byrddau iechyd i gyd a Llywodraeth Cymru i symud tuag at ddileu, ac y dylid ystyried targedau fel isafswm hefyd, nid fel uchafswm, efo'r nod o allu trin cymaint o bobl â phosibl a chanfod cymaint o'r rhai sydd â hepatitis C â phosibl, a hynny er mwyn arbed arian, wrth gwrs, yn y pen draw. Felly, fel y dywedais i, mae yna gyfle go iawn i ni yma yng Nghymru. Plis, allwn ni wneud yn siŵr bod popeth posibl yn cael ei wneud fel nad ydym ni'n colli'r cyfle euraid yma?
I’m very pleased to be able to contribute to this debate, even though I wasn’t a member of the health committee during the inquiry itself. This was a subject that I was very eager for the committee to look into when I was a member of it, and I very much welcome the publication of the report on this very important subject.
Now, there is a genuine opportunity for us here in Wales to achieve this simple but very exciting aim of eliminating hepatitis C in its entirety. Yes, there’s a target from the World Health Organization to eliminate it by 2030, but we could move according to a tighter timescale. Scotland and England have already set themselves a stricter target, and the Hepatitis C Trust have said to the committee that, because Wales has a relatively low number of people living in it to find and to treat, we could be the first nation in the UK to eliminate this disease. But, of course, we need a very strong strategy in order to do that and it’s very disappointing to read the conclusions of the committee that we’re not on the right course to reach the target of elimination by 2030 even, at the moment.
The belief is that potentially half of those in Wales who have hepatitis C haven’t received a diagnosis yet, partly because of the asymptomatic nature of hep C, so people sometimes receive a misdiagnosis. Perhaps people aren't aware that they're in a risk category—people who perhaps have used drugs in the past and haven't done so for decades and think that the risk has passed; potentially, users of drugs or injections to improve their image or performance in sport, even—people who don't consider that they're using injections in a dirty way, as it were, and so who don't have access to substance abuse services and are losing out on the important messages that are shared in those contexts as well.
So, I do welcome the recommendation to have an awareness raising campaign—a targeted campaign—to target those at-risk groups as well as providing training to professional health workers. It became very clear to me over the past few years that the challenge is not to treat those who already have the disease but to find those who have the disease but don’t know it. And the Government itself admits in its response to the committee's recommendations that patients are very hard to reach. So, do let us use every means at our disposal to reach them, whether by letting people know who could be at risk; using every opportunity to test; improving the testing for hepatitis C in prisons in Wales, as the report recommends; also looking at other opportunities—testing when people register with a GP, and so on. There are many ways of reaching out to people, and an awareness-raising campaign should also let people know how easy it is to treat— and how easy it is to have the test in the first place, but also how easy it is to treat hepatitis C on early diagnosis.
There is good work being done and firm foundations laid already in many ways, and I thank those within the health system and charities and so on for the major steps forward that they have taken in this regard. But we do have to ensure that there is a commitment by the health boards and the Welsh Government to move towards elimination and we should consider targets as a minimum as well, not as a maximum, so that we can treat as many people as possible and identify as many of those as possible who have hepatitis C, and that’s to save money in the long term, as well. So, as I said, there is a genuine opportunity here for us in Wales. Please do let us ensure that everything possible is done so that we don't lose out on this golden opportunity.
I'm grateful to the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee for their report into hepatitis C elimination in Wales. As the report highlights, around 14,000 people in Wales are chronically infected with this blood-borne virus that can lead to liver failure and cancer of the liver. It is also estimated that around 12,000 people in Wales have the disease but are unaware of it or are not actively seeking treatment.
I am pleased to see the Welsh Government actively working to achieve the World Health Organisation's target of eliminating both hepatitis B and C by the end of this decade. As the Hepatitis C Trust told the committee, Wales has the opportunity to become the first UK nation to eliminate the disease, but in order to achieve this we need a more strategic approach. The trust called for a comprehensive national elimination strategy, and the health committee agrees.
The committee’s first recommendation calls for such a strategy backed up by clear targets, workforce planning and sufficient funding. While the Minister has accepted this in principle, his response states that Welsh Government policy does not favour disease strategies because of the administrative burden. We need this strategy; guidance notes simply won't cut it. Only one health board met their treatment target in 2017-18.
Public Health Wales said that the WHO target can still be met if we have an all-Wales strategy that encompasses key interventions, relevant stakeholders and local delivery plans. This is clearly the kind of strategy envisioned by the health committee and endorsed by the Hepatitis C Trust. Therefore, I urge Members to send a clear message to the Welsh Government: Wales needs a comprehensive national elimination strategy, backed by hard targets and the money to deliver it, and nothing else will do.
Rwy'n ddiolchgar i'r Pwyllgor Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Chwaraeon am ei adroddiad ar ddileu hepatitis C yng Nghymru. Fel y mae'r adroddiad yn nodi, mae tua 14,000 o bobl yng Nghymru wedi'u heintio'n gronig gan y feirws hwn a gludir yn y gwaed ac mae'n gallu arwain at fethiant yr afu a chanser yr afu. Amcangyfrifir hefyd fod y clefyd ar oddeutu 12,000 o bobl yng Nghymru ond nad ydynt yn ymwybodol o hynny neu nad ydynt yn mynd ati i gael triniaeth.
Rwy'n falch o weld Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithio'n ddiwyd i gyflawni targed Sefydliad Iechyd y Byd i gael gwared â hepatitis B ac C erbyn diwedd y degawd hwn. Fel y dywedodd Ymddiriedolaeth Hepatitis C wrth y pwyllgor, mae gan Gymru gyfle i ddod yn wlad gyntaf y DU i gael gwared ar y clefyd, ond er mwyn cyflawni hyn rydym angen dull gweithredu mwy strategol. Galwodd yr ymddiriedolaeth am strategaeth ddileu genedlaethol gynhwysfawr, ac mae'r pwyllgor iechyd yn cytuno.
Mae argymhelliad cyntaf y pwyllgor yn galw am strategaeth o'r fath wedi'i chefnogi gan dargedau clir, cynllunio ar gyfer y gweithlu a chyllid digonol. Er bod y Gweinidog wedi derbyn hyn mewn egwyddor, mae ei ymateb yn datgan nad yw polisi Llywodraeth Cymru yn ffafrio strategaethau ar gyfer clefydau oherwydd y baich gweinyddol. Rydym angen y strategaeth hon; ni fydd nodiadau cyfarwyddyd yn ddigon. Un bwrdd iechyd yn unig a lwyddodd i gyrraedd ei darged ar gyfer triniaeth yn 2017-18.
Dywedodd Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru y gellid cyrraedd targed Sefydliad Iechyd y Byd o hyd pe bai gennym strategaeth Cymru gyfan sy'n cwmpasu ymyriadau allweddol, rhanddeiliaid perthnasol a chynlluniau cyflawni lleol. Mae'n amlwg mai dyma'r math o strategaeth a ragwelwyd gan y pwyllgor iechyd ac a gymeradwywyd gan Ymddiriedolaeth Hepatitis C. Felly, rwy'n annog yr Aelodau i anfon neges glir i Lywodraeth Cymru: mae Cymru angen strategaeth ddileu genedlaethol, wedi'i hategu gan dargedau caled a'r arian i'w chyflwyno, ac ni fydd unrhyw beth arall yn gwneud y tro.
Can I now call the the Minister for Health and Social Services, Vaughan Gething?
A gaf fi alw yn awr ar y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, Vaughan Gething?
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and thank you to members of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee for their report on progress towards achieving hepatitis C elimination in Wales.
Since the introduction of new treatments in 2014 NHS Wales has treated 2,850 patients for hepatitis C, with a success rate of around 95 per cent. Access to these new and highly effective treatments has been universal and there are no waiting lists. This is a significant achievement, and yet there is much more to do if we want to eliminate hepatitis C by 2030 at the latest, as we indeed aim to do.
And I do have to pause and thank the staff, the clinical community who have undertaken the current steps we have made on hepatitis C elimination. A genuine national network of clinicians, and I've met some of those people and I am tremendously impressed by not just the work they've done to date, but by their commitment to do more and to work in a different way, as indeed the report sets out, to reach those people who have yet to take up the treatments that are available.
Key actions in relation to hepatitis C and B were originally part of the blood-borne viral action plan and are now part of the liver disease delivery plan, which is due to run until December next year. In addition, a Welsh health circular was issued to NHS Wales in October 2017, setting up a framework of actions needed at a local level to support elimination. We know what is required to successfully eliminate hepatitis C: increased testing and treatment in traditional services, in the community and in prisons. Despite its inclusion in strategies and circulars, as the committee note, investment in local services across Wales has been patchy. The introduction of formalised minimum targets—and I have heard what Members have said in the report and today—for both testing and treatment is the next step, and it will require further investment by local services.
A key performance indicator for testing and substance misuse services was introduced for area planning boards from April 2019. As a result, we have already seen testing rates increase by over 50 per cent compared to the same period in 2018. Health boards will be sent a formal minimum treatment target as part of the NHS delivery framework for next year, 2020-21. This will encourage health boards to invest in effective and sustained outreach services in order to engage with individuals who are not currently in contact with traditional services. It is these outreach services that are needed rather than, in my view, a national awareness campaign. People are unlikely to see and be motivated to take part in new forms of treatment by a traditional national awareness campaign.
Formal minimum treatment targets will require health boards responsible for the health of our prisoners to consider the effectiveness of the current opt-out testing arrangements. And I was recently delighted to hear that the micro-elimination of hepatitis C had been achieved in Swansea prison. That of course now needs to be sustained in Swansea prison, and other health boards need to look at what is required to make this happen within the prison population in their own areas.
To support the local action required, a wider range of national actions are being progressed. The hepatitis C re-engagement exercise has already resulted in 41 patients commencing treatment. This programme will continue checking old patient records and contacting patients for testing well into next year. The roll-out of the testing in community pharmacies has been slower than expected, but we'll continue to drive that agenda forward to ensure that testing and treatment is delivered in community pharmacies across Wales.
I'm happy to commit on behalf of the Welsh Government to provide annual updates, guidance and instruction to health boards where necessary. I am confident that the actions outlined will put Wales back on track to achieve elimination by 2030 at the latest, as I recognise the committee wants to see as well.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd, a diolch i Aelodau'r Pwyllgor Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Chwaraeon am eu hadroddiad ar y cynnydd tuag at ddileu hepatitis C yng Nghymru.
Ers cyflwyno triniaethau newydd yn 2014, mae GIG Cymru wedi trin 2,850 o gleifion am hepatitis C, gyda chyfradd lwyddiant o tua 95 y cant. Mae mynediad at y triniaethau newydd ac effeithiol hyn wedi bod yn agored i bawb ac nid oes rhestrau aros. Mae hwn yn gyflawniad sylweddol, ac eto mae llawer mwy i'w wneud os ydym am ddileu hepatitis C erbyn 2030 fan bellaf, fel rydym yn anelu i'w wneud yn wir.
Ac mae'n rhaid i mi oedi a diolch i'r staff, y gymuned glinigol sydd wedi ymgymryd â'r camau presennol a wnaed gennym ar ddileu hepatitis C. Rhwydwaith gwirioneddol genedlaethol o glinigwyr, ac rwyf wedi cyfarfod â rhai o'r bobl hynny ac mae'r gwaith y maent wedi'i wneud hyd yma wedi gwneud argraff fawr arnaf, yn ogystal â'u hymrwymiad i wneud mwy ac i weithio mewn ffordd wahanol, fel y nodir yn yr adroddiad yn wir, i gyrraedd y bobl nad ydynt eto wedi manteisio ar y triniaethau sydd ar gael.
Roedd y camau allweddol mewn perthynas â hepatitis C a B yn rhan o'r cynllun gweithredu ar gyfer feirysau a gludir yn y gwaed yn wreiddiol ac maent bellach yn rhan o'r cynllun cyflawni ar gyfer clefydau'r afu, sydd i barhau tan fis Rhagfyr y flwyddyn nesaf. Yn ogystal, cyhoeddwyd cylchlythyr iechyd Cymru i GIG Cymru ym mis Hydref 2017, yn sefydlu fframwaith o gamau gweithredu sydd eu hangen ar lefel leol i gefnogi'r gwaith o ddileu hepatitis C. Gwyddom beth sydd ei angen i ddileu hepatitis C yn llwyddiannus: mwy o brofion a thriniaeth mewn gwasanaethau traddodiadol, yn y gymuned ac mewn carchardai. Er iddo gael ei gynnwys mewn strategaethau a chylchlythyrau, fel y nodwyd gan y pwyllgor, mae'r buddsoddiad mewn gwasanaethau lleol ledled Cymru wedi bod yn anghyson. Cyflwyno targedau gofynnol ffurfiol—ac rwyf wedi clywed yr hyn y mae Aelodau wedi'i ddweud yn yr adroddiad a heddiw—ar gyfer profion a thriniaeth yw'r cam nesaf, a bydd angen buddsoddiad pellach gan wasanaethau lleol.
Cyflwynwyd dangosydd perfformiad allweddol ar gyfer gwasanaethau profi a chamddefnyddio sylweddau ar gyfer byrddau cynllunio ardal o fis Ebrill 2019 ymlaen. O ganlyniad, rydym eisoes wedi gweld cyfraddau profi yn cynyddu dros 50 y cant o gymharu â'r un cyfnod yn 2018. Bydd y byrddau iechyd yn cael targed triniaeth sylfaenol ffurfiol fel rhan o fframwaith cyflawni'r GIG ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf, sef 2020-21. Bydd hyn yn annog byrddau iechyd i fuddsoddi mewn gwasanaethau allgymorth effeithiol a pharhaus er mwyn ymgysylltu ag unigolion nad ydynt mewn cysylltiad â gwasanaethau traddodiadol ar hyn o bryd. Y gwasanaethau allgymorth hyn sydd eu hangen yn hytrach nag ymgyrch ymwybyddiaeth genedlaethol yn fy marn i. Mae pobl yn annhebygol o weld a chael eu hysgogi i gymryd rhan mewn mathau newydd o driniaeth gan ymgyrch ymwybyddiaeth genedlaethol draddodiadol.
Bydd targedau triniaeth sylfaenol ffurfiol yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i fyrddau iechyd sy'n gyfrifol am iechyd ein carcharorion ystyried effeithiolrwydd trefniadau'r profion optio allan presennol. Ac yn ddiweddar, roeddwn yn falch o glywed eu bod wedi llwyddo i ddileu hepatitis C mewn grwpiau diffiniedig yng ngharchar Abertawe. Wrth gwrs, mae angen cynnal hynny yng ngharchar Abertawe yn awr, ac mae angen i fyrddau iechyd eraill edrych ar yr hyn sydd ei angen i sicrhau bod hyn yn digwydd o fewn poblogaeth y carchardai yn eu hardaloedd eu hunain.
Er mwyn cefnogi'r camau gweithredu lleol sy'n ofynnol, mae ystod ehangach o gamau gweithredu cenedlaethol yn cael eu datblygu. Mae ymarfer ailymgysylltu hepatitis C eisoes wedi galluogi 41 o gleifion i ddechrau triniaeth. Bydd y rhaglen hon yn parhau i edrych ar hen gofnodion cleifion a chysylltu â chleifion ar gyfer cynnal prawf ymhell i mewn i'r flwyddyn nesaf. Mae'r broses o gyflwyno'r profion mewn fferyllfeydd cymunedol wedi bod yn arafach na'r disgwyl, ond byddwn yn parhau i wthio'r agenda honno ymlaen er mwyn sicrhau bod profion a thriniaeth yn cael eu darparu mewn fferyllfeydd cymunedol ledled Cymru.
Rwy'n hapus i ymrwymo ar ran Llywodraeth Cymru i ddarparu diweddariadau blynyddol, canllawiau a chyfarwyddyd i fyrddau iechyd lle bo angen. Rwy'n hyderus y bydd y camau gweithredu a amlinellwyd yn rhoi Cymru yn ôl ar y trywydd cywir i sicrhau bod hepatitis C yn cael ei ddileu erbyn 2030 fan bellaf, fel rwy'n cydnabod y mae'r pwyllgor eisiau ei weld hefyd.
Will you take an intervention, or have you finished?
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad, neu a ydych chi wedi gorffen?
Finished, sorry. Can I call Helen Mary to reply to the debate?
Wedi gorffen, mae'n ddrwg gennyf. A gaf fi alw ar Helen Mary i ymateb i'r ddadl?
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I'm grateful to everybody who's participated in the debate. Angela Burns is right of course to highlight the new challenges, people who may not feel that they fall into the traditional groups of people who may be vulnerable to the virus. I also very much want to associate myself with what she said about the principle of 'accept in principle'. I think many of us who work on the committees in this place would rather, where it's appropriate, that if the Government doesn't fully agree with our recommendations that they simply disagree, but that's a matter of course for the Minister himself.
I think what Rhun ap Iorwerth said about being ambitious about targeting sooner, that because we are a small country, because we have responsive health services, we ought not to be content only to meet the 2030 target, but we should look to be more ambitious. I would urge, on behalf of the committee, the Welsh Government to look again at that.
Similarly, Caroline Jones's point about the need for a national strategy, I hear what the Minister says that strategies can be bureaucratic, that people can end up spending more time dealing with responding to the strategy than they do in actually sorting out the problem, but the evidence that came before us is that a particular strategy for this condition is needed, because if it's put in with a whole load of other conditions, we were told that it would get lost.
I want to draw on a particular point in the Government's response to our recommendation about a national strategy, and that is with regard to the specialist posts. The Minister's response says that he can't guarantee that the specialist posts will continue, though he understands that they will be needed. Of course, I take the point that the Minister doesn't know what his budget will be in 2021, but it is extremely important that those specialist and innovative posts are maintained, and I hope that this Assembly can send the Minister a very clear message and ask him to prioritise that.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ac rwy'n ddiolchgar i bawb sydd wedi cymryd rhan yn y ddadl. Mae Angela Burns yn iawn wrth gwrs i dynnu sylw at yr heriau newydd, pobl sydd efallai heb deimlo eu bod yn perthyn i'r grwpiau traddodiadol o bobl a allai fod yn agored i'r feirws. Rwyf hefyd yn awyddus iawn i gysylltu fy hun â'r hyn a ddywedodd am yr egwyddor o 'dderbyn mewn egwyddor'. Rwy'n credu y byddai'n well gan lawer ohonom sy'n gweithio ar y pwyllgorau yn y lle hwn, lle bo hynny'n briodol, os nad yw'r Llywodraeth yn cytuno'n llwyr â'n hargymhellion, eu bod yn syml yn anghytuno â hwy, ond mae hynny'n fater i'r Gweinidog ei hun wrth gwrs.
Rwy'n credu bod yr hyn a ddywedodd Rhun ap Iorwerth am fod yn uchelgeisiol a thargedu'n gynt, oherwydd bod Cymru'n wlad fach, oherwydd bod gennym wasanaethau iechyd ymatebol, na ddylem fod yn fodlon â tharged 2030, ond y dylem geisio bod yn fwy uchelgeisiol. Hoffwn annog Llywodraeth Cymru, ar ran y pwyllgor, i ailedrych ar hynny.
Yn yr un modd, mewn perthynas â phwynt Caroline Jones ynghylch yr angen am strategaeth genedlaethol, clywaf yr hyn y mae'r Gweinidog yn ei ddweud, y gall strategaethau fod yn fiwrocrataidd, y gall pobl dreulio mwy o amser yn ymdrin ag ymateb i'r strategaeth nag y maent yn ei wneud yn datrys y broblem mewn gwirionedd, ond y dystiolaeth a ddaeth ger ein bron yw bod angen strategaeth benodol ar gyfer y cyflwr hwn, oherwydd os yw'n cael ei gynnwys ochr yn ochr â llwyth o gyflyrau eraill, dywedwyd wrthym y byddai'n mynd ar goll.
Rwyf eisiau canolbwyntio ar bwynt penodol yn ymateb y Llywodraeth i'n hargymhelliad ynghylch strategaeth genedlaethol, sef yr un sy'n ymwneud â swyddi arbenigol. Dywed ymateb y Gweinidog na all warantu y bydd y swyddi arbenigol yn parhau, er ei fod yn deall y bydd eu hangen. Wrth gwrs, rwy'n derbyn y pwynt nad yw'r Gweinidog yn gwybod beth fydd ei gyllideb yn 2021, ond mae'n bwysig dros ben fod y swyddi arbenigol ac arloesol hynny'n cael eu cadw, ac rwy'n gobeithio y bydd y Cynulliad hwn yn gallu anfon neges glir iawn at y Gweinidog a gofyn iddo flaenoriaethu hynny.
Daeth Joyce Watson i’r Gadair.
Joyce Watson took the Chair.
Will you take an intervention?
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?
I will very happily take an intervention.
Rwy'n hapus iawn i dderbyn ymyriad.
Thank you very much indeed, because I take your point absolutely about the specialist posts, and I do hope that the Minister hears that, because of course one of the things we heard in our evidence very strongly was that GPs themselves—and this was from GPs and the Royal College of General Practitioners—were saying that they were missing the signs of hepatitis C. Patients were saying that, although they presented with all the symptoms, they weren't being picked up. And unless we have these specialist posts in place, I fear that more people will become missing.
Diolch yn fawr iawn i chi, oherwydd rwy'n derbyn eich pwynt yn llwyr am y swyddi arbenigol, a gobeithio y bydd y Gweinidog yn ei glywed, oherwydd, wrth gwrs, un o'r pethau cryfaf a glywsom yn ein tystiolaeth oedd bod meddygon teulu eu hunain yn dweud—meddygon teulu a Choleg Brenhinol yr Ymarferwyr Cyffredinol oedd yn dweud hyn—eu bod yn methu arwyddion o hepatitis C. Roedd cleifion yn dweud, er bod ganddynt yr holl symptomau, nad oedd meddygon yn sylwi arnynt. Ac oni bai fod gennym y swyddi arbenigol hyn yn eu lle, ofnaf y bydd mwy o bobl yn llithro drwy'r rhwyd.
I agree that that is a serious risk. This brings me on to the point that I wanted to make to the Minister about our recommendation 2, which was about targeted awareness and about training for professionals. Now, we weren't asking, Minister, for a traditional awareness campaign. We know it wouldn't reach the right people, and perhaps we can keep under review whether the approach that the Minister has suggested will be effective. But the Minister says in his written response that education and training for health professionals is already available. Well, the evidence that was placed before us, as Angela Burns has already said, made it very clear that that education and training isn't sufficient in itself. And, again, I urge the Government to keep this under review.
The Minister is absolutely right to say that we've made significant achievements, and this was a message that was very clear to the committee, and that staff have done some amazing work. But the truth is that we need to be more ambitious if we are to eliminate this condition, a condition that we know that we can eliminate. And the committee will be keeping a close eye on the Government's progress in delivering on that target, while continuing to urge them to be more ambitious and to set a more ambitious one.
Cytunaf fod honno'n risg ddifrifol. Daw hyn â mi at y pwynt roeddwn eisiau ei wneud i'r Gweinidog ynghylch argymhelliad 2, a oedd yn ymwneud â thargedu codi ymwybyddiaeth a hyfforddiant ar gyfer gweithwyr proffesiynol. Nawr, nid oeddem yn gofyn, Weinidog, am ymgyrch godi ymwybyddiaeth draddodiadol. Gwyddom na fyddai'n cyrraedd y bobl iawn, ac efallai y gallwn barhau i adolygu i ba raddau y bydd y dull a awgrymodd y Gweinidog yn effeithiol. Ond mae'r Gweinidog yn dweud yn ei ymateb ysgrifenedig fod addysg a hyfforddiant eisoes ar gael i weithwyr iechyd proffesiynol. Wel, roedd y dystiolaeth a gawsom, fel y dywedodd Angela Burns eisoes, yn ei gwneud yn glir iawn nad yw addysg a hyfforddiant yn ddigonol ynddynt eu hunain. Ac unwaith eto, rwy'n annog y Llywodraeth i barhau i adolygu hyn.
Mae'r Gweinidog yn llygad ei le yn dweud ein bod wedi cyflawni llawer, ac roedd hon yn neges a oedd yn glir iawn i'r pwyllgor, a bod staff wedi gwneud gwaith anhygoel. Ond y gwir amdani yw fod angen inni fod yn fwy uchelgeisiol os ydym am ddileu'r cyflwr hwn, cyflwr y gwyddom y gallwn ei ddileu. A bydd y pwyllgor yn cadw llygad barcud ar gynnydd y Llywodraeth tuag at gyrraedd y targed hwnnw, gan barhau i'w hannog i fod yn fwy uchelgeisiol a gosod targed mwy uchelgeisiol.
The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Y cynnig yw derbyn y cynnig. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Felly, derbynnir y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
We're moving on now to item 9, a debate on petition P-05-854, 'Make Learning Disability training mandatory for hospital staff', and I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion. Janet Finch-Saunders.
Symudwn ymlaen yn awr at eitem 9, dadl ar ddeiseb P-05-854, 'Gwneud hyfforddiant Anabledd Dysgu yn orfodol ar gyfer staff ysbytai', a galwaf ar Gadeirydd y pwyllgor i wneud y cynnig. Janet Finch-Saunders.
Cynnig NDM7177 Janet Finch-Saunders
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:
Yn nodi'r ddeiseb 'P-05-854 Gwneud Hyfforddiant Anabledd Dysgu yn orfodol ar gyfer staff ysbytai' a gasglodd 5,654 o lofnodion.
Motion NDM7177 Janet Finch-Saunders
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
Notes the petition 'P-05-854 Make Learning Disability training mandatory for hospital staff' which received 5,654 signatures.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Thank you. On behalf of the Petitions Committee, thank you for the opportunity to introduce this debate today. This is the eighth petition to have been referred for a Plenary debate, having received more than 5,000 signatures, since the process was introduced in March 2017. The petition, 'Make Learning Disability training mandatory for hospital staff', was submitted by the Paul Ridd Foundation, having collected 5,654 signatures. The foundation was established in 2016 by the sister and brother of Paul Ridd, who died whilst in Morriston Hospital in Swansea in 2009, at the age of 53.
Now, I want to start by describing some of the background to this petition and, in particular, to speak about Paul Ridd. From birth, Paul had severe learning difficulties, which meant that he spent most of his life in care. On 31 December 2008, he was admitted to hospital with a perforated bowel. This required major emergency surgery and, following the operation, he spent three weeks in intensive care, under sedation. Following this, Paul was moved to a general ward and his sedation was reduced. It was at this point that his family describe a deterioration in the care he received. They also felt that he was moved prematurely. They have referred to a number of issues that arose in relation to his care on the general ward. These included a loss of his notes on arrival, delays in administering medication, long periods with no observations taken, and a lack of recognition given to signs that his condition was deteriorating. This is heartbreaking and sadly serves as a reminder of health cases most of us here will be handling for constituents today. But, underlying all of these concerns is the petitioners' view that medical staff did not take Paul's learning disabilities into account or listen to the concerns and observations raised by his family and carers. Sadly, Paul died in hospital on 23 January 2009.
Now, two years after his death, the Public Services Ombudsman for Wales published a report into complaints made by Paul Ridd's family. This upheld many of their concerns and concluded that Paul's nursing care on the ward had been very poor and, when combined with his clinical care, had produced an unacceptable level of treatment. A coroner's report, following an inquest in 2013, found that he had died from natural causes that were contributed to by neglect.
So, I certainly wish to offer my condolences to Paul's family, at this point, for their loss, and also to commend them for the work they have done since then to ensure that lessons are learnt. I am sure that their commitment to improving the care that people with learning disabilities receive in hospitals will already have helped countless other individuals.
I will now move on to the specifics of the petition. Now, as I have mentioned previously, Paul's sister, Jayne, and brother, Jonathan, established the Paul Ridd Foundation in 2016. Their work has already led to the development and launch of a pathway care bundle for people with learning disabilities in 2014, with some support from the Welsh Government. This is designed to help hospital staff ensure that people with learning disabilities do receive a fair and equitable service when they visit hospital. However, when the Petitions Committee first considered the petition in January, the petitioners described concern over difficulty ensuring that the care bundle is implemented consistently throughout Wales. Key to achieving this, they argue, is for learning disability awareness training to be made mandatory for staff in hospitals, as outlined within their petition. So, this training would start from the principle of what a learning disability is—an understanding that the Paul Ridd Foundation contend is frequently missing amongst staff in practice.
Training should stress the importance of delivering an equal standard of healthcare to people with a learning disability, and to inform all staff of the need to make necessary adjustments to services, so that they are responsive and flexible to the individual needs of patients. It is this type of tailored care that they consider was lacking when their brother was receiving hospital treatment in 2009.
As well as the benefits to the individual patient, the foundation stresses that providing this training will assist staff to perform their roles to the best of their ability, and to do so for all patients in their care. They describe their view that training would complement the existing pathway care bundle by ensuring that all NHS staff are informed about its existence and what it covers, and that this would help improve what they describe as 'sporadic awareness' of its existence at present.
The foundation describes successfully delivering training of this type to over 1,000 learning disability champions, many of whom believe that the training should be mandatory for all staff. I am also aware, as I am sure other Members are, of other families of people with learning disabilities who are concerned about the care that their loved ones receive from the health service.
Diolch. Ar ran y Pwyllgor Deisebau, diolch am y cyfle i gyflwyno'r ddadl hon heddiw. Dyma'r wythfed ddeiseb i gael ei chyfeirio ar gyfer dadl yn y Cyfarfod Llawn, ar ôl derbyn mwy na 5,000 o lofnodion, ers cyflwyno'r broses ym mis Mawrth 2017. Cyflwynwyd y ddeiseb, 'Gwneud hyfforddiant Anabledd Dysgu yn orfodol ar gyfer staff ysbytai', gan Sefydliad Paul Ridd, ar ôl casglu 5,654 o lofnodion. Ffurfiwyd y sefydliad yn 2016 gan chwaer a brawd Paul Ridd, a fu farw tra yn Ysbyty Treforys yn Abertawe yn 2009, yn 53 oed.
Nawr, rwyf am ddechrau drwy ddisgrifio rhywfaint o gefndir y ddeiseb hon, ac yn benodol, rwyf am siarad am Paul Ridd. Ers ei enedigaeth, roedd gan Paul anawsterau dysgu difrifol, a olygai ei fod wedi treulio'r rhan fwyaf o'i fywyd mewn gofal. Ar 31 Rhagfyr 2008, cafodd ei dderbyn i'r ysbyty gyda choluddyn tyllog. Roedd angen llawdriniaeth fawr ar frys ac yn dilyn y llawdriniaeth, treuliodd dair wythnos mewn gofal dwys, ar dawelyddion. Yn dilyn hyn, symudwyd Paul i ward gyffredinol a lleihawyd ei dawelyddion. Ar y pwynt hwn, dywedodd ei deulu fod y gofal a gafodd wedi dirywio. Roeddent hefyd yn teimlo ei fod wedi cael ei symud cyn pryd. Maent wedi cyfeirio at nifer o faterion a gododd mewn perthynas â'i ofal ar y ward gyffredinol. Roedd y rhain yn cynnwys colli ei nodiadau pan gyrhaeddodd, oedi cyn rhoi meddyginiaeth, cyfnodau hir heb wneud arsylwadau, a diffyg cydnabyddiaeth i'r arwyddion fod ei gyflwr yn dirywio. Mae hyn yn dorcalonnus ac yn anffodus mae'n ein hatgoffa o achosion iechyd y mae'r rhan fwyaf ohonom yma yn ymdrin â hwy ar ran etholwyr heddiw. Ond yn sail i'r holl bryderon hyn, mae'r deisebwyr o'r farn nad oedd staff meddygol wedi ystyried anableddau dysgu Paul nac yn gwrando ar y sylwadau a'r pryderon a fynegwyd gan ei deulu a'i ofalwyr. Yn anffodus, bu farw Paul yn yr ysbyty ar 23 Ionawr 2009.
Nawr, ddwy flynedd ar ôl ei farwolaeth, cyhoeddodd Ombwdsmon Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus Cymru adroddiad ar y cwynion a wnaed gan deulu Paul Ridd. Roedd hyn yn cadarnhau llawer o'u pryderon a daeth i'r casgliad fod gofal nyrsio Paul ar y ward wedi bod yn wael iawn a'i fod, o'i gyfuno â'i ofal clinigol, wedi cynhyrchu lefel annerbyniol o driniaeth. Roedd adroddiad y crwner, yn dilyn cwest yn 2013, yn dangos ei fod wedi marw o achosion naturiol a bod esgeulustod wedi cyfrannu atynt.
Felly, ar y pwynt hwn, rwy'n sicr eisiau cydymdeimlo â theulu Paul heddiw ar eu colled, ac rwyf hefyd eisiau eu canmol am y gwaith y maent wedi'i wneud ers hynny i sicrhau bod gwersi'n cael eu dysgu. Rwy'n siŵr bod eu hymrwymiad i wella'r gofal a gaiff pobl ag anableddau dysgu mewn ysbytai eisoes wedi helpu nifer fawr o unigolion eraill.
Symudaf ymlaen yn awr at fanylion y ddeiseb. Nawr, fel rwyf wedi'i grybwyll o'r blaen, sefydlodd chwaer Paul, Jayne, a'i frawd, Jonathan, Sefydliad Paul Ridd yn 2016. Mae eu gwaith eisoes wedi arwain at ddatblygu a lansio bwndel llwybr gofal ar gyfer pobl ag anableddau dysgu yn 2014, gyda pheth cymorth gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Bwriad hwn yw helpu staff ysbytai i sicrhau bod pobl ag anableddau dysgu'n cael gwasanaeth teg a chyfartal pan fyddant yn mynd i'r ysbyty. Fodd bynnag, pan ystyriodd y Pwyllgor Deisebau y ddeiseb am y tro cyntaf ym mis Ionawr, disgrifiodd y deisebwyr bryder ynghylch anhawster i sicrhau bod y bwndel gofal yn cael weithredu'n gyson ledled Cymru. Maent yn dadlau mai'r unig ffordd o gyflawni hyn yw gwneud hyfforddiant ymwybyddiaeth o anableddau dysgu yn orfodol i staff ysbytai, fel yr amlinellwyd yn eu deiseb. Felly, byddai'r hyfforddiant hwn yn dechrau o'r egwyddor o beth yw anabledd dysgu—mae Sefydliad Paul Ridd yn dweud bod y ddealltwriaeth hon ar goll yn aml ymhlith staff ar lefel ymarferol.
Dylai hyfforddiant bwysleisio pwysigrwydd darparu gofal iechyd o safon gyfartal i bobl ag anabledd dysgu, a hysbysu pob aelod o staff am yr angen i wneud addasiadau angenrheidiol i wasanaethau, fel eu bod yn ymatebol ac yn hyblyg i anghenion unigol cleifion. Dyma'r math o ofal wedi'i deilwra roeddent yn ystyried ei fod yn brin pan oedd eu brawd yn cael triniaeth yn yr ysbyty yn 2009.
Yn ogystal â'r manteision i'r claf unigol, mae'r sefydliad yn pwysleisio y bydd darparu'r hyfforddiant hwn yn helpu staff i gyflawni eu rolau hyd eithaf eu gallu, a gwneud hynny ar gyfer pob claf yn eu gofal. Maent yn disgrifio eu barn y byddai hyfforddiant yn ategu'r bwndel llwybr gofal presennol drwy sicrhau bod holl staff y GIG yn cael gwybod am ei fodolaeth a beth sydd ynddo, ac y byddai hynny'n helpu i wella'r hyn a ddisgrifiant fel 'ymwybyddiaeth ysbeidiol' o'i fodolaeth ar hyn o bryd.
Mae'r sefydliad yn disgrifio'r gwaith o ddarparu hyfforddiant o'r math hwn yn llwyddiannus i dros 1,000 o hyrwyddwyr anabledd dysgu, ac mae llawer ohonynt yn credu y dylai'r hyfforddiant fod yn orfodol i bob aelod o staff. Rwyf hefyd yn ymwybodol, fel y mae Aelodau eraill, rwy'n siŵr, o deuluoedd eraill sy'n poeni am y gofal y mae eu hanwyliaid sydd ag anableddau dysgu yn ei gael gan y gwasanaeth iechyd.
Will you take an intervention?
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?
Yes.
Gwnaf.
The most important thing is that it's not online training followed by a multiple choice test that people can take a number of times. People have to be properly trained.
Y peth pwysicaf yw nad yw'n hyfforddiant ar-lein wedi'i ddilyn gan brawf amlddewis y gall pobl ei wneud nifer o weithiau. Rhaid hyfforddi pobl yn iawn.
Thanks to my colleague Mike Hedges AM for his intervention. And that is the point and principle, really—one of the main points and principles behind this petition.
Now, in advance of this debate, I have received correspondence from others supporting the petition, and I have been seriously saddened by reports, such as that after the death of an individual with severe learning disabilities who could not speak, an inquest allegedly found that the individual had not received appropriate care and treatment, and that health board staff did not respond appropriately or with sufficient urgency to the individual's presentation.
The Petitions Committee has also considered developments in England, where the outcome of the consultation into proposals to introduce mandatory learning disability and autism training for health and care staff is still awaited. We could await for the publication, but I ask Members here today—and this is what the petitioners are asking—why should Wales not lead the way? We need to see progress here. Currently, it is estimated that one in four healthcare professionals have never had training on learning disability or autism.
I must acknowledge the statement issued by the Minister for Health and Social Services earlier this year that £2 million has been made available over the next three years to improve NHS services for people with a learning disability. However, money alone will not achieve the core aim of this petition: making learning disability training mandatory for hospital staff. Similarly, whilst the Paul Ridd Foundation value the Minister's commitment to the Improving Lives programme, they have reiterated that mandatory training will be key in delivering the outcomes of the healthcare issues in that programme.
I will leave the final word in my remarks today to the Paul Ridd Foundation. Their purpose since his death has been that another family would not have to go through the same experience when in hospital and to ensure that all staff are supported to see the person, not the disability. It is considered that making learning disability training mandatory for hospital staff would go some way in achieving this. Diolch yn fawr.
Diolch i fy nghyd-Aelod Mike Hedges AC am ei ymyriad. A dyna'r pwynt a'r egwyddor, mewn gwirionedd—un o'r prif bwyntiau a’r egwyddorion sy’n sail i'r ddeiseb hon.
Nawr, cyn y ddadl hon, cefais ohebiaeth gan eraill sy'n cefnogi'r ddeiseb, a chefais fy nhristáu'n ddifrifol gan adroddiadau fel yr un a gefais ar ôl marwolaeth unigolyn ag anableddau dysgu difrifol na allai siarad, ac yn ôl yr honiad, canfu cwest nad oedd yr unigolyn wedi cael gofal a thriniaeth briodol, ac nad oedd staff y bwrdd iechyd wedi ymateb yn briodol nac yn ddigon sydyn i gyflwr yr unigolyn.
Mae'r Pwyllgor Deisebau hefyd wedi ystyried datblygiadau yn Lloegr, lle maent yn dal i aros am ganlyniad yr ymgynghoriad ar gynigion i gyflwyno hyfforddiant gorfodol ar gyfer anabledd dysgu ac awtistiaeth i staff iechyd a gofal. Gallem aros am y cyhoeddiad, ond gofynnaf i'r Aelodau yma heddiw—a dyma beth y mae'r deisebwyr yn ei ofyn—pam na ddylai Cymru arwain y ffordd? Mae angen inni weld cynnydd yma. Ar hyn o bryd, amcangyfrifir nad yw un o bob pedwar gweithiwr gofal iechyd proffesiynol erioed wedi cael hyfforddiant ar anabledd dysgu neu awtistiaeth.
Rhaid imi gydnabod y datganiad a gyhoeddwyd gan y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yn gynharach eleni fod £2 filiwn ar gael dros y tair blynedd nesaf i wella gwasanaethau'r GIG i bobl ag anabledd dysgu. Fodd bynnag, ni fydd arian yn unig yn cyflawni nod craidd y ddeiseb: gwneud hyfforddiant anabledd dysgu yn orfodol i staff ysbytai. Yn yr un modd, er bod Sefydliad Paul Ridd yn gwerthfawrogi ymrwymiad y Gweinidog i'r rhaglen Gwella Bywydau, maent wedi ailadrodd y bydd hyfforddiant gorfodol yn allweddol ar gyfer sicrhau canlyniadau'r materion gofal iechyd yn y rhaglen honno.
Gadawaf y gair olaf yn fy sylwadau heddiw i Sefydliad Paul Ridd. Eu nod ers ei farwolaeth yw sicrhau na fyddai’n rhaid i deulu arall fynd drwy’r un profiad pan yn yr ysbyty a sicrhau bod yr holl staff yn cael eu cynorthwyo i weld yr unigolyn, nid yr anabledd. Ystyrir y byddai gwneud hyfforddiant anabledd dysgu yn orfodol i staff ysbytai yn mynd rywfaint o'r ffordd i gyflawni hyn. Diolch yn fawr.
Unfortunately, deep concerns still exist today about health inequalities and the disproportionate numbers of potentially avoidable deaths of people with a learning disability. I'm sure that many of us can reflect upon a constituent's case that highlights these concerns. It's something that worries me deeply, in that, here we are, in 2019, still having to address such inequality being experienced by people with learning disabilities.
Our health and care system needs to do much more to give people with learning disabilities the good-quality health and social care that they ought to expect as a right. People with a learning disability can experience hospitalisation, life-threatening illnesses and even premature death when unable to access health services for even the most routine conditions or ailments. It remains a stark fact that people with learning disabilities die on average 20 years earlier than the general population and that they continue to experience significant disparities in the quality of care and support they receive, as well as the outcomes they can expect. This is unacceptable in a twenty-first century Wales.
Llywydd dros dro, as we've already heard, one particular case that we should be aware of is that of Paul Ridd, who lived in Baglan, in my constituency, whose life may have ended in 2009, but whose story lives on and is key to this call for mandatory training for all health and care workers in every health and care setting. Paul's sister is in the gallery today, and she, along with her brother, decided to take action following their loss of Paul to address the fact that the lack of training and ignorance of his needs were considered as contributory factors in his death. And as already pointed out by the Chair of the committee, they established the Paul Ridd Foundation and have campaigned tirelessly for improvement in awareness and understanding by hospital staff of the needs of individuals with learning disabilities, so that they can provide a level of care no different from that of other patients. They have produced training material, created a traffic-light system, logos, which will be used on patients' records, hospital passports, and a pathway care bundle, working with professionals. Those logos are not new—we've seen them with dementia patients: the butterfly logo. They're already in existence for other conditions. This is nothing new in reality, but it's ensuring that it addresses the needs of people with learning disabilities.
Now, the pathway care bundle was launched in 2016 in Morriston Hospital and I was privileged to attend that launch. It sets out seven key steps—key steps, which, if followed, will ensure that all patients with learning disabilities will experience the level of care that we expect for all patients and for our loved ones if they attend hospital. And I was pleased that ABMU—as it was then, Swansea Bay as it is now—drew up a comprehensive programme of learning disability awareness training for key nursing and clinical staff, which included appropriate recognition of the role of family—and that's crucial here—carers and advocates in providing vital information to staff, helping to make prudent decisions about care. And Paul's family have been pivotal in ensuring this has been rolled out, and I congratulate them on their part in this.
However, as has been pointed out, learning disability training is not mandatory, and if it does take place, I've been made aware that it generally forms part of an induction session. What I don't know is: was that half an hour, 10 minutes? Who knows? It's very simple to say it's in the induction, but it's actually, 'What does the training entail?' That's crucial. Now, is this acceptable? No. It's not acceptable. Learning disability training should be mandatory and more. It should be refreshed, not on a one-off but on a regular basis. So, all staff—and I use the words 'all staff'—working in the hospitals need to have the correct training to ensure a smooth experience for patients with learning disabilities and their families. It must not be, as my colleague pointed out, e-learning-based or even classroom-based, it must be interactive with individuals and use the collaboration of organisations that work with people with learning disabilities in that process. And as I said, all staff, from the point at which they enter the healthcare system—whether it's a receptionist in a doctor's surgery, a receptionist in a hospital, or the nurse in an A&E unit—from that point they enter to whomever they meet in that journey through that system, they need that training. Different levels of training, I understand, but everyone needs to understand that training so that patients entering our hospitals are treated with the dignity and respect we would expect for everybody. And it is a challenge, but it's a challenge we must meet.
Now, in this Chamber, we should be determined that everybody who has a learning disability receives the high-quality care that meets their needs and their expectations, and which results in positive outcomes for that individual. In life, like many others, Paul had a right to be listened to and their needs understood, but tragically, this was not always the case. We owe it to their memory that people with learning disabilities are supported to live healthy and happy lives. They deserve nothing less.
We must deliver a system that ensures that patients and service users receive safe, effective and dignified care, and that those who provide care have the knowledge, skills and behaviours to support people with learning disabilities. I am aware that England yesterday announced they will actually be doing the mandatory training. I hope, therefore, that Wales will follow suit and ensure that training is training and not simply a half-hour exercise so it can be a tick box.
Yn anffodus, mae pryderon dwfn yn dal i fodoli heddiw ynghylch anghydraddoldebau iechyd a niferoedd anghymesur o farwolaethau pobl ag anabledd dysgu y gellir bod wedi eu hosgoi. Rwy'n siŵr y gall llawer ohonom fyfyrio ar achos etholwr sy'n tynnu sylw at y pryderon hyn. Mae'n rhywbeth sy'n fy mhoeni'n fawr, yn yr ystyr ein bod ni, yn 2019, yn dal i orfod mynd i'r afael ag anghydraddoldeb o'r fath a ddioddefir gan bobl ag anableddau dysgu.
Mae angen i'n system iechyd a gofal wneud llawer mwy i roi'r gofal iechyd a’r gofal cymdeithasol o ansawdd da y dylent ei ddisgwyl fel hawl i bobl ag anableddau dysgu. Gall pobl ag anabledd dysgu wynebu gorfod mynd i'r ysbyty, salwch sy'n peryglu bywyd a marwolaeth gynamserol hyd yn oed pan na allant gael mynediad at wasanaethau iechyd ar gyfer y cyflyrau neu'r anhwylderau mwyaf cyffredin hyd yn oed. Mae'n parhau i fod yn ffaith enbyd fod pobl ag anableddau dysgu yn marw 20 mlynedd yn gynt ar gyfartaledd na'r boblogaeth gyffredinol a'u bod yn parhau i ddioddef gwahaniaethau sylweddol yn ansawdd y gofal a'r gefnogaeth a gânt yn ogystal â'r canlyniadau y gallant eu disgwyl. Mae hyn yn annerbyniol yng Nghymru'r unfed ganrif ar hugain.
Lywydd dros dro, fel y clywsom eisoes, un achos penodol y dylem fod yn ymwybodol ohono yw achos Paul Ridd, a oedd yn byw ym Maglan yn fy etholaeth, ac er i'w fywyd ddod i ben yn 2009, mae ei stori'n fyw o hyd ac yn allweddol i'r alwad hon am hyfforddiant gorfodol i'r holl weithwyr iechyd a gofal ym mhob lleoliad iechyd a gofal. Mae chwaer Paul yn yr oriel heddiw, a phenderfynodd hi a’i brawd weithredu yn sgil colli Paul i fynd i’r afael â’r ffaith bod diffyg hyfforddiant ac anwybodaeth ynglŷn â'i anghenion yn cael eu hystyried yn ffactorau a gyfrannodd at ei farwolaeth. Ac fel y nodwyd eisoes gan Gadeirydd y pwyllgor, fe wnaethant sefydlu Sefydliad Paul Ridd ac maent wedi ymgyrchu'n ddiflino i wella ymwybyddiaeth a dealltwriaeth staff ysbytai o anghenion unigolion ag anableddau dysgu fel y gallant ddarparu lefel o ofal nad yw’n wahanol i’r hyn y bydd cleifion eraill yn ei gael. Maent wedi cynhyrchu deunydd hyfforddi, wedi creu system goleuadau traffig, logos, a ddefnyddir ar gofnodion cleifion, pasbortau ysbyty, a bwndel llwybr gofal, gan weithio gyda gweithwyr proffesiynol. Nid yw'r logos hynny'n newydd—fe’u gwelsom gyda chleifion dementia: logo'r pili pala. Maent eisoes yn bodoli ar gyfer cyflyrau eraill. Nid yw hyn yn ddim byd newydd mewn gwirionedd, ond mae'n sicrhau ei fod yn ateb anghenion pobl ag anableddau dysgu
Nawr, lansiwyd y bwndel llwybr gofal yn 2016 yn Ysbyty Treforys a chefais y fraint o fynychu'r lansiad hwnnw. Mae'n nodi saith cam allweddol—camau allweddol a fydd, os cânt eu dilyn, yn sicrhau y bydd pob claf ag anableddau dysgu yn profi'r lefel o ofal rydym yn ei disgwyl i'r holl gleifion ac i'n hanwyliaid os ydynt yn mynd i'r ysbyty. Ac roeddwn yn falch fod ABMU—fel yr oedd bryd hynny, Bae Abertawe fel y mae yn awr—wedi llunio rhaglen gynhwysfawr o hyfforddiant ymwybyddiaeth anabledd dysgu ar gyfer staff nyrsio a staff clinigol allweddol, rhaglen a oedd yn cynnwys cydnabyddiaeth briodol i rôl teulu—ac mae hynny'n allweddol yma—gofalwyr ac eiriolwyr yn y broses o ddarparu gwybodaeth hanfodol i staff, gan helpu i wneud penderfyniadau doeth ynglŷn â gofal. A bu teulu Paul yn rhan ganolog o sicrhau bod hyn wedi'i gyflwyno, a hoffwn eu llongyfarch ar eu rhan yn hyn.
Fodd bynnag, fel y nodwyd, nid yw hyfforddiant anabledd dysgu yn orfodol, ac os yw'n digwydd, rwyf wedi cael gwybod ei fod fel arfer yn ffurfio rhan o sesiwn gynefino. Yr hyn nad wyf yn ei wybod yw: ai hanner awr o hynny a gafwyd, 10 munud? Pwy â ŵyr? Mae'n hawdd iawn dweud ei fod yn rhan o'r cyfnod cynefino, ond beth y mae'r hyfforddiant yn ei gynnwys? Mae hynny'n hollbwysig. Nawr, a yw hyn yn dderbyniol? Nac ydyw. Nid yw'n dderbyniol. Dylai hyfforddiant anabledd dysgu fod yn orfodol a mwy na hynny. Dylid ei ddiweddaru, nid ar sail untro ond yn rheolaidd. Felly, mae angen i bob aelod o staff—a defnyddiaf y geiriau 'pob aelod o staff'—sy'n gweithio yn yr ysbytai gael yr hyfforddiant cywir i sicrhau profiad llyfn i gleifion ag anableddau dysgu a'u teuluoedd. Rhaid iddo beidio â bod, fel y nododd fy nghyd-Aelod, yn seiliedig ar e-ddysgu neu hyd yn oed yn ddysgu yn yr ystafell ddosbarth, rhaid iddo fod yn rhyngweithiol gydag unigolion a defnyddio cydweithrediad sefydliadau sy'n gweithio gyda phobl ag anableddau dysgu yn y broses honno. Ac fel y dywedais, pob aelod o staff, o'r adeg y maent yn cychwyn yn y system gofal iechyd—boed yn dderbynnydd mewn meddygfa, yn dderbynnydd mewn ysbyty, neu'n nyrs mewn uned ddamweiniau ac achosion brys—o'r pwynt y maent yn mynd i mewn i bwy bynnag y byddant yn eu cyfarfod ar y daith drwy'r system, mae angen yr hyfforddiant hwnnw arnynt. Lefelau gwahanol o hyfforddiant, rwy'n deall hynny, ond mae angen i bawb ddeall yr hyfforddiant fel bod cleifion sy'n mynd i mewn i'n hysbytai yn cael eu trin gyda'r urddas a'r parch y byddem yn ei ddisgwyl i bawb. Ac mae'n her, ond mae'n her y mae'n rhaid i ni ei goresgyn.
Nawr, yn y Siambr hon, dylem fod yn benderfynol fod pawb sydd ag anabledd dysgu yn cael y gofal o safon uchel sy'n diwallu eu hanghenion a'u disgwyliadau, ac sy'n arwain at ganlyniadau cadarnhaol i'r cyfryw unigolyn. Fel llawer o rai eraill, roedd gan Paul hawl i gael ei glywed a chael ei anghenion wedi'u deall, ond yn drasig, nid oedd hyn yn digwydd bob amser. Er cof amdanynt hwy, mae'n ddyletswydd arnom i sicrhau bod pobl ag anableddau dysgu'n cael eu cynorthwyo i fyw bywydau iach a hapus. Maent yn haeddu hynny, a dim llai na hynny.
Rhaid inni ddarparu system sy'n sicrhau bod cleifion a defnyddwyr gwasanaethau'n cael gofal diogel, effeithiol ac urddasol, a bod gan y rhai sy'n darparu gofal wybodaeth, sgiliau ac ymddygiad i gefnogi pobl ag anableddau dysgu. Rwy'n ymwybodol fod Lloegr wedi cyhoeddi ddoe y byddant yn rhoi hyfforddiant gorfodol. Rwy'n gobeithio, felly, y bydd Cymru'n dilyn eu hesiampl ac yn sicrhau bod hyfforddiant yn hyfforddiant yn hytrach nag ymarfer hanner awr i allu rhoi tic yn y blwch.
The estimated learning disabled population in Wales of 70,000 people are at a greater risk of physical and mental ill health, have a lower standard of health and a greater risk of developing poorer health, are twice as likely to access secondary care in an emergency, and die, on average, decades before the general population. Thirty-eight per cent of these deaths are avoidable—more than four times the rate of the general population—with hundreds more dying of avoidable deaths in secondary care. Yet, hospital staff do not receive focused learning disability training and are therefore not equipped to deliver the level of care required.
Mencap Cymru and the Paul Ridd Foundation are therefore right to call for mandatory learning disability training for hospital staff and to highlight the result of the Bangor University MSc research, funded by Mencap Cymru, which supported the hypothesis that improvements were seen in the attitudes held by hospital staff members towards patients with learning disabilities, following their participation in the learning disability awareness sessions. This is particularly topical, where a report by the UK Parliament's joint committee on human rights said last Friday that mental health legislation must be overhauled to stop the horrific inappropriate detention of young people with autism and learning disabilities, and where the UK health Secretary announced yesterday that thousands of mental health patients with learning disabilities and autism will have their care reviewed over the next 12 months, and each will be provided with a hospital discharge date or plan to move closer to home.
We must hope that the Welsh Government will participate fully in this on behalf of affected patients from Wales. The nature of an individual's learning disability varies widely and will affect the kind of support they may require. Many people with a learning disability will have a reduced ability to cope independently in a variety of situations, including health services.
The Paul Ridd Foundation and Mencap Cymru recommend that all hospital staff working in a role that contributes to the health outcomes of people with a learning disability or autism should have the proposed training. As Mencap Cymru state, however:
'Autism is not a learning disability'.
And as the National Autistic Society state:
'Autistic people can have different "degrees" of learning disability…. Some people will be able to live fairly independently—although they may need a degree of support to achieve this—while others may require lifelong, specialist support. People with a diagnosis of Asperger syndrome do not usually have accompanying learning disabilities, but may still have specific learning difficulties, such as dyslexia.'
As I'm told daily by people with direct lived experience—the real experts—we must ensure that the learning disabled and autism communities are given a direct role in the design and delivery of services, moving beyond awareness to understanding, acceptance and empowerment. In other words, instead of making them fit into a model designed by people who don't think like them, we must become more flexible in the delivery of services and see the world through their eyes.
As the Paul Ridd Foundation and Mencap state 'we need: more than E-Learning,' as we heard. Content and training materials should be co-produced with people with a learning disability or autism and their families. Unconscious bias and implicit attitudes need to be addressed, and the Mental Capacity Act 2005 and Equality Act 2010 must also be central to any training. And we must remember that that Equality Act 2010 requires that service providers must think ahead to take steps to address barriers that impede disabled people. In doing this, it is a good idea, it says, to consider the range of disabilities that your actual or potential service users might have. You should not wait until a disabled person experiences difficulties using a service. That's the law.
However, the regulation of health professionals, as opposed to social work professionals, is a matter reserved to the UK Government under the Government of Wales Act, which means that the Welsh Government could find itself in breach if it introduced a mandatory requirement for training of health professionals other than generic equality training. The Welsh Government could instead adopt the approach consequently taken in Paul Davies's defeated Autism (Wales) Bill, and make suitable learning disability or autism training available for health professionals.
The good news, however, as was briefly referred to previously, is that yesterday, following a public consultation, the UK Government announced its intention to introduce mandatory learning disability and autism training and its commitment to work with all professional bodies and the devolved administrations to agree a common core curriculum. Hopefully, therefore, we have a way ahead.
Mae'r nifer amcangyfrifedig o'r boblogaeth anableddau dysgu yng Nghymru o 70,000 o bobl mewn mwy o berygl o afiechyd corfforol a meddyliol, o safon iechyd is a mwy o risg o ddatblygu iechyd gwaeth, maent ddwywaith yn fwy tebygol o gael mynediad at ofal eilaidd mewn argyfwng, ac maent yn marw, ar gyfartaledd, ddegawdau cyn y boblogaeth yn gyffredinol. Mae 38 y cant o'r marwolaethau hyn yn rhai y gellir eu hosgoi—mwy na phedair gwaith y gyfradd yn y boblogaeth yn gyffredinol—gyda channoedd yn fwy yn marw o farwolaethau y gellir eu hosgoi mewn gofal eilaidd. Eto i gyd, nid yw staff ysbytai'n cael hyfforddiant penodol ar anabledd dysgu ac felly nid ydynt yn gymwys i ddarparu'r lefel o ofal sydd ei hangen.
Felly mae Mencap Cymru a Sefydliad Paul Ridd yn iawn i alw am hyfforddiant anabledd dysgu gorfodol i staff ysbytai ac i dynnu sylw at ganlyniad ymchwil MSc Prifysgol Bangor, a ariannwyd gan Mencap Cymru, a oedd yn cefnogi'r ddamcaniaeth fod gwelliannau i'w gweld yn ymagweddau aelodau o staff ysbytai tuag at gleifion ag anableddau dysgu ar ôl iddynt gymryd rhan yn y sesiynau ymwybyddiaeth o anabledd dysgu. Mae hyn yn arbennig o amserol, gan fod adroddiad gan gyd-bwyllgor Senedd y DU ar hawliau dynol wedi dweud ddydd Gwener diwethaf fod yn rhaid i ddeddfwriaeth iechyd meddwl gael ei hadolygu i atal pobl ifanc ag awtistiaeth ac anableddau dysgu rhag cael eu cadw dan glo yn amhriodol, a chyhoeddodd Ysgrifennydd iechyd y DU ddoe y caiff gofal miloedd o gleifion iechyd meddwl ag anableddau dysgu ac awtistiaeth ei adolygu dros y 12 mis nesaf, a chaiff pob un ddyddiad rhyddhau o'r ysbyty neu gynllun er mwyn symud yn agosach at adref.
Mae'n rhaid i ni obeithio y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn cymryd rhan lawn yn hyn ar ran cleifion yr effeithir arnynt o Gymru. Mae natur anabledd dysgu unigolyn yn amrywio'n fawr a bydd yn effeithio ar y math o gymorth y gall fod ei angen arnynt. Bydd gan lawer o bobl ag anabledd dysgu lai o allu i ymdopi'n annibynnol mewn amrywiaeth o sefyllfaoedd, gan gynnwys gwasanaethau iechyd.
Mae Sefydliad Paul Ridd a Mencap Cymru yn argymell y dylai pob aelod o staff ysbytai sy'n gweithio mewn rôl sy'n cyfrannu at ganlyniadau iechyd pobl ag anabledd dysgu neu awtistiaeth gael yr hyfforddiant a argymhellir. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywed Mencap Cymru:
Nid anabledd dysgu yw awtistiaeth.
Ac fel y dywed Cymdeithas Genedlaethol Awtistiaeth:
Gall fod gan bobl awtistig wahanol "raddau" o anabledd dysgu.... Bydd rhai pobl yn gallu byw'n eithaf annibynnol—er y gallent fod angen rhywfaint o gymorth i gyflawni hyn—tra bydd eraill angen cymorth arbenigol gydol oes o bosibl. Fel arfer nid oes gan bobl sydd wedi cael diagnosis o syndrom Asperger anableddau dysgu cysylltiedig, ond efallai y bydd ganddynt anawsterau dysgu penodol, megis dyslecsia.
Fel y dywedir wrthyf yn ddyddiol gan bobl sydd â phrofiad byw uniongyrchol—yr arbenigwyr go iawn—rhaid inni sicrhau bod y cymunedau anabledd dysgu ac awtistiaeth yn cael rhan uniongyrchol yn y gwaith o gynllunio a darparu gwasanaethau, gan symud y tu hwnt i ymwybyddiaeth i ddeall, derbyn a grymuso. Mewn geiriau eraill, yn hytrach na gwneud iddynt ffitio i fodel a gynlluniwyd gan bobl nad ydynt yn meddwl fel y gwnânt hwy, rhaid inni ddod yn fwy hyblyg wrth ddarparu gwasanaethau a gweld y byd drwy eu llygaid hwy.
Fel y dywed Sefydliad Paul Ridd a Mencap, mae angen mwy nag e-ddysgu. Dylid cydgynhyrchu cynnwys a deunydd hyfforddi gyda phobl ag anabledd dysgu neu awtistiaeth a'u teuluoedd. Rhaid mynd i'r afael â rhagfarn anymwybodol ac ymagweddau ymhlyg, ac mae'n rhaid i Ddeddf Galluedd Meddyliol 2005 a Deddf Cydraddoldeb 2010 hefyd fod yn ganolog i unrhyw hyfforddiant. Ac mae'n rhaid i ni gofio bod Deddf Cydraddoldeb 2010 yn mynnu bod yn rhaid i ddarparwyr gwasanaethau feddwl ymlaen llaw a chymryd camau i fynd i'r afael â rhwystrau sy'n llesteirio pobl anabl. Wrth wneud hyn, mae'n dweud ei bod yn syniad da i ystyried yr amrywiaeth o anableddau a allai fod gan eich defnyddwyr gwasanaethau neu eich darpar ddefnyddwyr gwasanaethau. Ni ddylech aros nes bod person anabl yn cael anawsterau wrth ddefnyddio gwasanaeth. Dyna'r gyfraith.
Fodd bynnag, mae rheoleiddio gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol, yn hytrach na gweithwyr cymdeithasol proffesiynol, yn fater a gadwyd yn ôl i Lywodraeth y DU o dan Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru, sy'n golygu y gallai Llywodraeth Cymru ei thorri pe bai'n cyflwyno gofyniad gorfodol i hyfforddi gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol ar wahân i hyfforddiant cydraddoldeb generig. Yn hytrach, gallai Llywodraeth Cymru fabwysiadu'r dull a ddilynwyd wedi hynny ym Mil Awtistiaeth (Cymru) Paul Davies, Bil a gafodd ei wrthod, a sicrhau bod hyfforddiant anabledd dysgu neu awtistiaeth addas ar gael i weithwyr iechyd proffesiynol.
Y newyddion da, fodd bynnag, fel y nodwyd yn fyr yn flaenorol, yw bod Llywodraeth y DU, yn dilyn ymgynghoriad cyhoeddus, wedi cyhoeddi ei bwriad ddoe i gyflwyno hyfforddiant gorfodol ar anabledd dysgu ac awtistiaeth a'i hymrwymiad i weithio gyda phob corff proffesiynol a'r gweinyddiaethau datganoledig i gytuno ar gwricwlwm craidd cyffredin. Gobeithio, felly, fod gennym ffordd ymlaen.
I'm pleased to be speaking in this very important debate, a debate that highlights just how far, I think, society still has to go to work for people who have brains that work differently. The petition highlights just one case in which the neglect, ignorance and lack of training for staff about learning disabilities have resulted in an avoidable death, but it's one case that's part of a wider pattern in which people with learning disabilities, autism or other neurological divergence can experience worse health outcomes, despite comprising a significant proportion of the population.
In many health settings, we know that conversations can be structured in a way that misses the diagnosis of conditions. Most neurotypical people will provide relevant information that goes beyond a direct answer to a question. For example, 'Have you vomited?' Answer: 'No, but I feel very, very sick,' whereas perhaps an autistic person may just provide a literal answer to the question, 'no,' which can lead to incomplete communication of symptoms and, as a result, missed or delayed diagnoses, and, for somebody who is non-verbal, that becomes even worse. Indeed, rates of almost every type of physical and mental health problem are significantly raised in groups of people with autism and/or learning disabilities. Evidence suggests that the way in which people are asked for their symptoms, asked to describe their symptoms, has a significant effect on diagnosis.
But rather than move to address this by increasing training, we've actually seen a reduction in many cases—for example, the reduction in the learning disability post provided in Bangor. The Nursing Times reports more widely that almost half of the universities with pre-registration learning disability nursing courses have discussed terminating their programmes next year due to student recruitment difficulties, which is frightening.
Of course, it's not just down to those students who are in the learning phase of their career. We need also to be ensuring better professional development for existing nurses, except, of course, that isn't happening. Our nurses are overworked, and we know that they lack protected training time. In Betsi Cadwaladr, of course, the proposal is that nurses will now lack protected lunch breaks as well—a scandalous lack of respect for the nursing profession that will be the topic of a Plaid Cymru debate later this afternoon.
But we have to ask ourselves why is it that we are continually seeing the role and training provided to nurses being less and less respected, despite the consequences that are highlighted here. It has to be said that this is another strong argument as to why we need neurodivergence to be a protected characteristic in equalities legislation, as, frankly, the situation currently is not good enough. I sincerely hope that the petition succeeds in making the Government take this issue far more seriously.
Rwy'n falch o fod yn siarad yn y ddadl bwysig hon, dadl sy'n tynnu sylw at ba mor bell, rwy'n credu, sy'n rhaid i gymdeithas fynd o hyd i weithio dros bobl sydd ag ymennydd sy'n gweithio'n wahanol. Mae'r ddeiseb yn tynnu sylw at un achos yn unig lle arweiniodd esgeulustod, anwybodaeth a diffyg hyfforddiant i staff am anableddau dysgu at farwolaeth y gellid bod wedi ei hosgoi, ond mae'n un achos sy'n rhan o batrwm ehangach lle mae pobl ag anableddau dysgu, awtistiaeth neu wahaniaeth niwrolegol arall yn gallu dioddef canlyniadau iechyd gwaeth, er eu bod yn gyfran sylweddol ei maint o'r boblogaeth.
Mewn llawer o leoliadau iechyd, gwyddom y gall sgyrsiau gael eu strwythuro mewn ffordd sy'n methu diagnosis o gyflyrau. Bydd y rhan fwyaf o bobl niwronodweddiadol yn darparu gwybodaeth berthnasol sy'n mynd y tu hwnt i ateb uniongyrchol i gwestiwn. Er enghraifft, 'A ydych wedi chwydu?' Ateb: 'Naddo, ond rwy'n teimlo fel pe bawn ar fin chwydu,' ond efallai na fydd person awtistig ond yn rhoi ateb llythrennol i'r cwestiwn, 'na,' a all arwain at fethu cyfathrebu symptomau'n llawn ac o ganlyniad, at fethu gwneud diagnosis amserol, ac i rywun sy'n ddieiriau, mae hynny'n mynd i fod yn waeth byth. Yn wir, mae cyfraddau bron bob math o broblem iechyd gorfforol a meddyliol yn sylweddol uwch mewn grwpiau o bobl ag awtistiaeth a/neu anableddau dysgu. Mae tystiolaeth yn awgrymu bod y ffordd y gofynnir i bobl ynglŷn â'u symptomau, ac y gofynnir iddynt ddisgrifio eu symptomau, yn cael effaith sylweddol ar ddiagnosis.
Ond yn hytrach na mynd i'r afael â hyn drwy gynyddu hyfforddiant, rydym wedi gweld gostyngiad mewn llawer o achosion mewn gwirionedd—er enghraifft, lleihau'r swydd anabledd dysgu a ddarperir ym Mangor. Dywed y Nursing Times yn fwy eang fod bron i hanner y prifysgolion sydd â chyrsiau nyrsio anabledd dysgu cyn cofrestru wedi trafod dod â'u rhaglenni i ben y flwyddyn nesaf oherwydd anawsterau i recriwtio myfyrwyr, ac mae hynny'n frawychus.
Wrth gwrs, mae'n ymwneud â mwy na'r myfyrwyr sydd yng nghyfnod dysgu eu gyrfa yn unig. Mae angen i ni hefyd sicrhau datblygiad proffesiynol gwell i nyrsys presennol, ond nid yw hynny'n digwydd wrth gwrs. Mae ein nyrsys dan ormod o bwysau, a gwyddom nad oes ganddynt amser wedi'i neilltuo ar gyfer hyfforddi. Yn Betsi Cadwaladr, wrth gwrs, y cynnig yw na fydd nyrsys bellach yn cael egwyl amser cinio wedi'i neilltuo ychwaith—enghraifft warthus o ddiffyg parch at y proffesiwn nyrsio a fydd yn destun dadl gan Blaid Cymru yn ddiweddarach y prynhawn yma.
Ond mae'n rhaid i ni ofyn i ni'n hunain pam ein bod yn gyson yn gweld y rôl a'r hyfforddiant a ddarperir i nyrsys yn cael llai a llai o barch, er gwaethaf y canlyniadau a amlygir yma. Rhaid dweud bod hon yn ddadl gref arall pam y mae angen inni wneud niwrowahaniaeth yn nodwedd warchodedig mewn deddfwriaeth gydraddoldeb, oherwydd a bod yn onest, nid yw'r sefyllfa'n ddigon da ar hyn o bryd. Mawr obeithiaf y bydd y ddeiseb yn llwyddo i wneud i'r Llywodraeth roi sylw llawer mwy difrifol i hyn.
I want to introduce this Chamber to a constituent of mine, Mr Heddwyn Hughes. I first met Heddwyn and his family a good number of years ago, when they were experiencing some difficulties with the funding of his care placement in Mynyddygarreg and they came to me for some support and advice. I would have been perfectly happy just to talk to the family, but the family said to me, 'Heddwyn is your constituent, as well as us. Come and see him. Come and meet him.' And I was very pleased and proud to do so. He was a gentleman with severe learning disabilities that he'd had from birth. He'd been in care from the age of nine in a range of homes, but he was surrounded by a loving family and living in the community where he belonged.
We successfully resolved the funding issue, and Heddwyn continued to be funded by the local health board, as was appropriate, and I hadn't heard from his family for a very long time until this week. I couldn't instantly remember the case when I saw the e-mail, and when I opened the attachment and saw Heddwyn's smile, then I remembered who it was.
Heddwyn died in May 2015 in a care home run by the local health board. The jury at his inquest could not determine the cause of his injury, though he died having had a broken neck. But his inquest concluded that he did not receive appropriate care and treatment by the medical staff in his care home, that they did not respond appropriately to his presentation—he was a gentlemen who was physically able to move before the injury; suddenly, he could not move from the neck down. Now, if that happened to somebody who was neurotypical—if it happened to one of us—you would instantly call an ambulance. The staff decided not to do that in this case, they gave inappropriate information to the GP when the GP arrived, and the GP struggled to diagnose his condition. Eventually, he was sent to hospital with complete loss of use of all his limbs. But the hospital did not diagnose his broken neck for 10 days. And the reason given for that was, 'He couldn't tell us what had happened.' Of course he couldn't tell them what had happened—he wasn't able to communicate verbally.
There's a whole lot else that I could say about this case. But the family came back to me on this issue because they believe that the healthcare staff were doing their best, that they hadn't had the appropriate training to understand his needs, to understand his communication needs, and that they weren't able to provide the care that he needed because they did not know how—not because they didn't wish to, not because they didn't care, not because they weren't good people, but because they did not know how.
The family asked me—. They were here today and they asked me specifically to raise his case here as an example of a gentleman who had many years of life ahead of him, whose broken neck could have been treated and he could have continued to live a full life, even though he may have had a physical disability as a result of it. They lost him eventually to pneumonia, because he was not treated for a broken neck for 10 days.
I want to associate myself with everything that has been said in this Chamber today about this being an issue of equality, of people's right to treatment. Heddwyn was my constituent. His family are my constituents. He was a gentleman loved in his community, who had a full life. He lost that life because the staff did not know how to care for him. This is intolerable in twenty-first century Wales. And we will not solve this issue by sitting staff in front of a computer for 25 minutes—we will not. Effective equalities training—and many of you know that I worked in this field in the past—has to be achieved both by learning the law and learning the guidance and learning the appropriate thing to do, and then by having our own preconceptions, our own ways of thinking, challenged.
I know there are complications, as Mark Isherwood said, about mandating training, but I can't imagine that there would be any member of healthcare staff in this country of ours who would not want to receive that training if they were given protected time to do it. So, please, I really hope—and I'm very grateful to the Petitions Committee for bringing this to us today—please, please, for Heddwyn, for everybody else that we've heard about today, please let us have our staff properly trained so that our fellow citizens will not be put in this position again. Heddwyn and his family, all the families affected by this, deserve to be taken seriously, and our staff need and deserve the training that they need to protect and support patients like Heddwyn.
Rwyf am gyflwyno'r Siambr hon i un o fy etholwyr, Mr Heddwyn Hughes. Cyfarfûm â Heddwyn a'i deulu am y tro cyntaf nifer o flynyddoedd yn ôl, pan gawsant anawsterau gydag ariannu ei leoliad gofal ym Mynyddygarreg a daethant ataf am gymorth a chyngor. Buaswn wedi bod yn berffaith hapus i siarad â'r teulu yn unig, ond dywedodd y teulu wrthyf, 'Mae Heddwyn yn etholwr i chi, yn ogystal â ni. Dewch i'w weld. Dewch i'w gyfarfod.' Ac roeddwn yn falch iawn o wneud hynny. Roedd yn ŵr bonheddig ag anableddau dysgu difrifol ers ei enedigaeth. Bu mewn gofal er pan oedd yn naw oed mewn amryw o gartrefi, ond roedd ganddo deulu cariadus o'i gwmpas, yn byw yn y gymuned lle'r oedd yn perthyn.
Llwyddwyd i ddatrys y broblem ariannu, a pharhaodd Heddwyn i gael ei ariannu gan y bwrdd iechyd lleol, fel oedd yn briodol, ac nid oeddwn wedi clywed gan ei deulu ers amser hir iawn tan yr wythnos hon. Nid oeddwn yn cofio'r achos yn syth pan welais yr e-bost, a phan agorais yr atodiad a gweld gwên Heddwyn, fe gofiais pwy oedd e.
Bu farw Heddwyn ym mis Mai 2015 mewn cartref gofal a gâi ei redeg gan y bwrdd iechyd lleol. Ni allai'r rheithgor yn ei gwest bennu achos ei anaf, er iddo farw ar ôl torri ei wddf. Ond daeth ei gwest i'r casgliad nad oedd wedi cael gofal a thriniaeth briodol gan y staff meddygol yn ei gartref gofal, nad oeddent wedi ymateb yn briodol i'w gyflwr—roedd yn ŵr bonheddig a allai symud yn gorfforol cyn yr anaf; yn sydyn, ni allai symud o'i wddf i lawr. Nawr, pe bai hynny'n digwydd i rywun a oedd yn niwronodweddiadol—pe bai'n digwydd i un ohonom ni—byddech yn galw am ambiwlans yn syth. Penderfynodd y staff beidio â gwneud hynny yn yr achos hwn, a phan gyrhaeddodd y meddyg teulu, cafodd wybodaeth amhriodol ganddynt a'i gwnaeth yn anodd i'r meddyg teulu wneud diagnosis o'i gyflwr. Yn y diwedd, cafodd ei anfon i'r ysbyty heb allu defnyddio'i freichiau na'i goesau o gwbl. Ond ni lwyddodd yr ysbyty i wneud diagnosis fod ei wddf wedi torri am 10 diwrnod. A'r rheswm a roddwyd am hynny oedd, 'Ni allai ddweud wrthym beth oedd wedi digwydd.' Wrth gwrs na allai ddweud wrthynt beth oedd wedi digwydd—ni allai gyfathrebu'n eiriol.
Mae yna lawer iawn o bethau eraill y gallwn eu dweud am yr achos hwn. Ond daeth y teulu yn ôl ataf yn ei gylch oherwydd eu bod yn credu bod y staff gofal iechyd yn gwneud eu gorau, nad oeddent wedi cael yr hyfforddiant priodol i ddeall ei anghenion, i ddeall ei anghenion cyfathrebu, ac nad oeddent yn gallu darparu'r gofal roedd ei angen am nad oeddent yn gwybod sut—nid am nad oeddent yn dymuno gwneud hynny, nid oherwydd nad oeddent yn poeni, nid oherwydd nad oeddent yn bobl dda, ond oherwydd nad oeddent yn gwybod sut.
Gofynnodd y teulu i mi—. Roeddent yma heddiw a gofynasant i mi sôn yn benodol am ei achos yma fel enghraifft o ŵr bonheddig a oedd â blynyddoedd lawer o fywyd o'i flaen, y gellid bod wedi trin ei wddf a oedd wedi torri a gallai fod wedi parhau i fyw bywyd llawn, er y byddai ganddo anabledd corfforol o ganlyniad. Bu farw o niwmonia yn y diwedd am na chafodd driniaeth ar gyfer ei wddf am 10 diwrnod.
Rwyf am ategu popeth a ddywedwyd yn y Siambr hon heddiw am y ffaith bod hwn yn fater o gydraddoldeb, o hawl pobl i driniaeth. Roedd Heddwyn yn un o fy etholwyr. Mae ei deulu'n etholwyr i mi. Roedd yn ŵr bonheddig annwyl i'w gymuned, a chanddo fywyd llawn. Collodd y bywyd hwnnw am nad oedd y staff yn gwybod sut i ofalu amdano. Ni ellir goddef hyn yng Nghymru'r unfed ganrif ar hugain. Ac ni fyddwn yn datrys y mater drwy osod staff o flaen cyfrifiadur am 25 munud—ni allwn wneud hynny. Rhaid cyflawni hyfforddiant cydraddoldeb effeithiol—ac mae llawer ohonoch yn gwybod fy mod wedi gweithio yn y maes hwn yn y gorffennol—drwy ddysgu'r gyfraith a dysgu'r canllawiau a dysgu'r peth priodol i'w wneud, ac yna drwy gael ein rhagdybiaethau ein hunain, ein ffyrdd ein hunain o feddwl, wedi'u herio.
Gwn fod cymhlethdodau, fel y dywedodd Mark Isherwood, ynghlwm wrth roi hyfforddiant gorfodol ar waith, ond ni allaf ddychmygu y byddai unrhyw aelod o staff gofal iechyd yn y wlad hon na fyddai am gael yr hyfforddiant hwnnw pe baent yn cael amser wedi'i neilltuo ar gyfer gwneud hynny. Felly, os gwelwch yn dda, rwy'n gobeithio'n fawr—ac rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn i'r Pwyllgor Deisebau am gyflwyno hyn heddiw—os gwelwch yn dda, er mwyn Heddwyn, er mwyn pawb arall y clywsom amdanynt heddiw, gadewch i ni hyfforddi ein staff yn briodol fel na fydd ein cyd-ddinasyddion yn cael eu rhoi yn y sefyllfa hon eto. Mae Heddwyn a'i deulu, a'r holl deuluoedd y mae hyn yn effeithio arnynt, yn haeddu cael eu cymryd o ddifrif, ac mae ein staff angen ac yn haeddu'r hyfforddiant sydd ei angen arnynt i amddiffyn a chefnogi cleifion fel Heddwyn.
I'm pleased to speak in this debate today, and thank the Petitions Committee for bringing it forward, and I also thank the family and friends of Paul Ridd for bringing forward the petition also. Mr Ridd's tragic death was a travesty and clearly highlighted serious failings in our NHS when it comes to patients with a learning disability. A lack of training and awareness of learning disabilities were highlighted as a contributory factor in Mr Ridd's death.
Thanks to pressure from Mr Ridd's family the Welsh Government issued specific guidance on improving care for people with a learning disability, acknowledging that communication and an understanding of these needs is of paramount importance. However, the guidance doesn't go far enough, and I and many of us across this Chamber campaigned for an autism Act, which would have required all health and care staff to have autism and learning disability training.
The Welsh Government rejected the need for such an Act, which I would still maintain is very necessary. However, in the absence of an autism Act, we should, at the very least, comply with the wishes of Mr Paul Ridd's family, friends and the nearly 5,500 Welsh people who signed this petition. Learning disability training for all staff working in health and care should be mandatory.
I commend the efforts of Mr Ridd's family and pledge the support of myself and my party to making their wish a reality. We can't bring back their brother, but we can ensure that no one else's brother or sister, parent or child die of neglect because of inadequate training. I urge colleagues to support the petition before us today and hope the Welsh Government will commit to implementing the wishes of Mr Ridd's family. Thank you.
Rwy'n falch o gael siarad yn y ddadl hon heddiw, a diolch i'r Pwyllgor Deisebau am ei chyflwyno, a diolch hefyd i deulu a chyfeillion Paul Ridd am gyflwyno'r ddeiseb. Roedd marwolaeth drasig Mr Ridd yn warth ac amlygodd yn glir fethiannau difrifol yn ein GIG mewn perthynas â chleifion ag anabledd dysgu. Amlygwyd diffyg hyfforddiant ac ymwybyddiaeth o anableddau dysgu fel ffactor a gyfrannodd at farwolaeth Mr Ridd.
Diolch i bwysau gan deulu Mr Ridd cyhoeddodd Llywodraeth Cymru ganllawiau penodol ar wella gofal i bobl ag anabledd dysgu, i gydnabod bod cyfathrebu a dealltwriaeth o'r anghenion hyn o'r pwys mwyaf. Fodd bynnag, nid yw'r canllawiau'n mynd yn ddigon pell, ac fe ymgyrchais i a llawer ohonom ar draws y Siambr hon dros Ddeddf awtistiaeth, a fyddai wedi mynnu bod pob aelod o staff iechyd a gofal yn cael hyfforddiant awtistiaeth ac anabledd dysgu.
Gwrthododd Llywodraeth Cymru yr angen am Ddeddf o'r fath, Deddf y buaswn yn dal i addef ei bod yn angenrheidiol iawn. Fodd bynnag, yn absenoldeb Deddf awtistiaeth, dylem o leiaf gydymffurfio â dymuniadau teulu Mr Paul Ridd, ei ffrindiau a bron i 5,500 o Gymry a lofnododd y ddeiseb hon. Dylai hyfforddiant anabledd dysgu ar gyfer yr holl staff sy'n gweithio ym maes iechyd a gofal fod yn orfodol.
Rwy'n canmol ymdrechion teulu Mr Ridd ac yn addo fy nghefnogaeth i a fy mhlaid i wireddu eu dymuniad. Ni allwn ddod â'u brawd yn ôl, ond gallwn sicrhau nad oes brawd neu chwaer, rhiant neu blentyn unrhyw un arall yn marw o esgeulustod oherwydd hyfforddiant annigonol. Rwy'n annog fy nghyd-Aelodau i gefnogi'r ddeiseb sydd ger ein bron heddiw ac rwy'n gobeithio y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn ymrwymo i weithredu dymuniadau teulu Mr Ridd. Diolch.
I call on the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services, Julie Morgan.
Galwaf ar y Dirprwy Weinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, Julie Morgan.
Thank you. And, firstly, I would like to thank the Paul Ridd Foundation and the Petitions Committee for bringing forward this petition today, and I was very pleased to meet Paul's sister and brother and other members of the foundation earlier this afternoon. Today's debate does provide me with the opportunity to explain our plans to embed a comprehensive national education programme across the whole of the NHS in Wales, not just in hospital settings.
We're committed to ensuring that those affected by a learning disability lead an active and fulfilling life within a caring and stable environment, where the challenges they face are understood and society does all it can to address inequalities and potential hardships.
What happened to Paul Ridd was a tragedy for all involved, and I would also say the same for Helen Mary's constituent, and, for some time now, the NHS in Wales and the Welsh Government have committed to ensuring lessons are learned and history does not repeat itself. I am confident that we can achieve this, with great strides being taken in awareness and understanding of the issues facing individuals with a learning disability and how these issues can be addressed. However, we do recognise that sometimes progress has been slow and more needs to be done.
The Paul Ridd Foundation have done an exemplary job in going into hospitals and educating staff on how to help those with a learning disability. Sadly, Paul's family know only too well why it's so important for all NHS staff to understand the issues faced by individuals with a learning disability, and I welcome their continued contribution as we develop a framework for the NHS in Wales.
The landmark Learning Disability: Improving Lives Programme received Cabinet and cross-party support when launched in June 2018. This sets out our commitment to improving the lives of those affected by a learning disability. The programme contains 24 actions across the whole of Government, aimed at addressing issues that affect those with a learning disability. It covers early years, health, social care, housing, employment, education and transport. We have provided, as has already been mentioned today, additional funding of £2 million to support the NHS to deliver the health actions in the programme.
Implementing these actions will improve the consistency and quality of learning disability services in both primary and secondary care for children, young people and adults. One particular action is to ensure that reasonable adjustments are made in hospital settings to support people with learning disabilities and their families to access mainstream NHS services. This is why an education and training framework for all staff is so important. Our approach is to ensure that learning disability awareness training is fully embedded into the core training programme for all staff as part of the health board's mandatory equality and diversity training, supported by more in-depth targeted training for staff in key roles. I know that the foundation are anxious that this training should be mandatory and I can confirm that it will be. Our approach will ensure that staff are fully aware of the issues and able to deliver the best possible services for individual patients and their families.
Pre-registration education for all health care professional groups includes an element relating to dealing with vulnerable groups. The nursing profession has specific provision in the core curriculum on learning disability and includes a placement in a learning disability service. However, the approach varies across the health professions, with some professional groups receiving general awareness raising as part of wider training provision around equality and diversity, and of course some healthcare professions will have qualified prior to the inclusion of any sort of awareness raising training. So, we're committed to putting in place a comprehensive framework of education and training for all NHS staff to ensure that everyone working in a health care setting—
Diolch. Ac yn gyntaf, hoffwn ddiolch i Sefydliad Paul Ridd a'r Pwyllgor Deisebau am gyflwyno'r ddeiseb hon heddiw, ac roeddwn yn falch iawn o gyfarfod â chwaer a brawd Paul ac aelodau eraill o'r sefydliad yn gynharach y prynhawn yma. Mae'r ddadl heddiw yn rhoi cyfle i mi egluro ein cynlluniau i sefydlu rhaglen addysg genedlaethol gynhwysfawr ar draws y GIG yng Nghymru, ac nid mewn ysbytai yn unig.
Rydym yn ymrwymedig i sicrhau bod y rhai yr effeithir arnynt gan anabledd dysgu yn byw bywyd gweithgar a boddhaus mewn amgylchedd gofalgar a sefydlog, lle y deellir yr heriau a wynebant a lle mae cymdeithas yn gwneud popeth yn ei gallu i fynd i'r afael ag anghydraddoldebau a chaledi posibl.
Roedd yr hyn a ddigwyddodd i Paul Ridd yn drasiedi i bawb a oedd yn gysylltiedig, a buaswn hefyd yn dweud yr un peth wrth etholwr Helen Mary, ac ers tro bellach, mae'r GIG yng Nghymru a Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ymrwymo i sicrhau bod gwersi'n cael eu dysgu ac nad yw hanes yn ailadrodd ei hun. Rwy'n hyderus y gallwn gyflawni hyn, gyda chamau breision ymlaen o ran ymwybyddiaeth a dealltwriaeth o'r problemau sy'n wynebu unigolion ag anabledd dysgu a sut y gellir mynd i'r afael â'r materion hyn. Fodd bynnag, rydym yn cydnabod bod cynnydd wedi bod yn araf ar brydiau ac mae angen gwneud mwy.
Mae Sefydliad Paul Ridd wedi gwneud gwaith rhagorol wrth fynd i ysbytai ac addysgu staff ar sut i helpu'r rhai sydd ag anabledd dysgu. Yn anffodus, mae teulu Paul yn gwybod yn iawn pam ei bod hi mor bwysig i holl staff y GIG ddeall y problemau a wynebir gan unigolion ag anabledd dysgu, ac rwy'n croesawu eu cyfraniad parhaus wrth i ni ddatblygu fframwaith ar gyfer y GIG yng Nghymru.
Cafodd y rhaglen bwysig, Anabledd Dysgu: Rhaglen Gwella Bywydau, gefnogaeth y Cabinet a chefnogaeth drawsbleidiol pan gafodd ei lansio ym mis Mehefin 2018. Mae'n nodi ein hymrwymiad i wella bywydau'r rhai yr effeithir arnynt gan anabledd dysgu. Mae'r rhaglen yn cynnwys 24 o gamau gweithredu ar draws y Llywodraeth gyfan, gyda'r nod o fynd i'r afael â materion sy'n effeithio ar bobl ag anabledd dysgu. Mae'n cwmpasu'r blynyddoedd cynnar, iechyd, gofal cymdeithasol, tai, cyflogaeth, addysg a thrafnidiaeth. Fel y crybwyllwyd eisoes heddiw, rydym wedi darparu £2 filiwn o gyllid ychwanegol i gynorthwyo'r GIG i gyflawni'r camau iechyd yn y rhaglen.
Bydd gweithredu'r camau hyn yn gwella cysondeb ac ansawdd gwasanaethau anabledd dysgu mewn gofal sylfaenol ac eilaidd i blant, pobl ifanc ac oedolion. Un cam arbennig yw sicrhau bod addasiadau rhesymol yn cael eu gwneud mewn ysbytai i gynorthwyo pobl ag anableddau dysgu a'u teuluoedd i gael mynediad at wasanaethau prif ffrwd y GIG. Dyma pam y mae fframwaith addysg a hyfforddiant i'r holl staff mor bwysig. Ein dull o weithredu yw sicrhau bod hyfforddiant ymwybyddiaeth o anabledd dysgu yn cael ei ymgorffori'n llawn yn y rhaglen hyfforddiant craidd i bob aelod o staff fel rhan o hyfforddiant gorfodol y bwrdd iechyd ar gydraddoldeb ac amrywiaeth, wedi'i gefnogi gan hyfforddiant mwy manwl wedi'i dargedu ar gyfer staff mewn rolau allweddol. Gwn fod y sefydliad yn awyddus i'r hyfforddiant hwn fod yn orfodol a gallaf gadarnhau y bydd. Bydd ein dull o weithredu'n sicrhau bod staff yn gwbl ymwybodol o'r problemau ac yn gallu darparu'r gwasanaethau gorau posibl i gleifion unigol a'u teuluoedd.
Mae addysg cyn cofrestru i bob grŵp gofal iechyd proffesiynol yn cynnwys elfen sy'n ymwneud ag ymdrin â grwpiau agored i niwed. Mae gan y proffesiwn nyrsio ddarpariaeth benodol yn y cwricwlwm craidd ar anabledd dysgu ac mae'n cynnwys lleoliad mewn gwasanaeth anabledd dysgu. Fodd bynnag, mae'r dull o weithredu'n amrywio ar draws y proffesiynau iechyd, gyda rhai grwpiau proffesiynol yn cael hyfforddiant codi ymwybyddiaeth cyffredinol yn rhan o ddarpariaeth hyfforddi ehangach yn ymwneud â chydraddoldeb ac amrywiaeth, ac wrth gwrs bydd rhai proffesiynau gofal iechyd wedi ymgymhwyso cyn i unrhyw fath o hyfforddiant codi ymwybyddiaeth gael ei gynnwys. Felly, rydym wedi ymrwymo i sefydlu fframwaith cynhwysfawr o addysg a hyfforddiant i holl staff y GIG er mwyn sicrhau bod pawb sy'n gweithio mewn lleoliad gofal iechyd—
Will the Minister take an internvention?
A wnaiff y Gweinidog dderbyn ymyriad?
Of course.
Wrth gwrs.
I'm very grateful. Can we ask you to ensure that that awareness training will include some element of face-to-face training as well as the very useful stuff that can be done online? Because I know from your previous work that you understand as I do that attitudes need to be challenged in a way that a computer can't.
Rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn. A gawn ni ofyn i chi sicrhau y bydd yr hyfforddiant ymwybyddiaeth hwnnw'n cynnwys rhyw elfen o hyfforddiant wyneb yn wyneb yn ogystal â'r stwff defnyddiol iawn y gellir ei wneud ar-lein? Oherwydd rwy'n gwybod o'ch gwaith blaenorol eich bod yn deall fel finnau fod angen herio agweddau mewn ffordd na all cyfrifiadur ei wneud.
Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (Ann Jones) i’r Gadair.
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.
Yes, and I will be going on to refer to that later on. We want to ensure that everyone working in a healthcare setting has the appropriate skills and training necessary for them to make the reasonable adjustments that ensure individuals with a learning disability are treated effectively and receive high-quality care appropriate to their needs.
So, led by the University of South Wales, work is under way on developing a new three-tier framework approach to embedding training within NHS Wales. The framework will take a tiered approach. Tier 1 will be a national general awareness training programme for all staff. This will be embedded in health board equality and diversity training programmes, and this is effectively mandating training. Tier 2 will comprise enhanced training for those staff with regular contact with individuals with a learning disability, and tier 3 will comprise a comprehensive education programme for staff with frequent specialised contact. So, everybody will get the basic training and there will be more specific training for those that have more intensive contact.
The university will work collaboratively with the NHS, with families and third sector stakeholders, including the Paul Ridd Foundation and All Wales People First, to develop the framework, and it will be rolled out in full from spring next year. And I know that the foundation—and they've made the point to me very strongly—believes that the training should involve people with learning disabilities themselves in an interactive way, and I believe that this should be achieved, and the Paul Ridd Foundation will be part of the group that will plan the framework and will be there to see that these important elements are included in the framework.
And, in fact, the approach we are taking goes further than the petition requirement. Training will be mandated for all NHS staff working in primary and community care settings, as well as hospital settings. And we will also be exploring opportunities to establish the framework across social care settings. We are also exploring the extent to which the new three-tier framework could be applied for autism as well as for learning disabilities. Training standards for professionals working with individuals with autism will be developed. In addition, a universal passport is being developed with service users, families, carers and NHS staff. The passport describes the issues affecting the individual so that mainstream NHS services can respond appropriately to their care needs. This will be a Wales-wide model and will be introduced in parallel with a framework of education and training.
So I hope that, today, I have reassured the Paul Ridd Foundation and the wider learning disability community of our intention and commitment to establish as quickly as possible a national comprehensive training programme for NHS Wales, which will include mandatory training and which will include interaction with people with learning disabilities, because I agree that that is one of the most powerful forms of interaction.
Paul's family asked me today whether the new framework could be named after their brother, Paul. I think that would be an excellent idea and a lasting memory of Paul Ridd.
Ie, a byddaf yn cyfeirio at hynny yn nes ymlaen. Rydym am sicrhau bod gan bawb sy'n gweithio mewn lleoliad gofal iechyd y sgiliau a'r hyfforddiant priodol sy'n angenrheidiol er mwyn iddynt wneud yr addasiadau rhesymol sy'n sicrhau bod unigolion ag anabledd dysgu yn cael eu trin yn effeithiol ac yn derbyn gofal o ansawdd da sy'n briodol i'w hanghenion.
Felly, dan arweiniad Prifysgol De Cymru, mae gwaith ar y gweill i ddatblygu fframwaith tair haen newydd i wreiddio hyfforddiant o fewn GIG Cymru. Bydd y fframwaith yn gweithredu mewn modd haenog. Bydd haen 1 yn rhaglen hyfforddiant ymwybyddiaeth genedlaethol gyffredinol ar gyfer yr holl staff. Bydd yn rhan annatod o raglenni hyfforddiant cydraddoldeb ac amrywiaeth byrddau iechyd, ac mae hyn i bob pwrpas yn sicrhau bod hyfforddiant yn orfodol. Bydd haen 2 yn cynnwys gwell hyfforddiant i'r staff sydd mewn cysylltiad rheolaidd ag unigolion ag anabledd dysgu, a bydd haen 3 yn cynnwys rhaglen addysg gynhwysfawr ar gyfer staff sydd mewn cysylltiad arbenigol yn fynych. Felly, bydd pawb yn cael yr hyfforddiant sylfaenol a bydd hyfforddiant mwy penodol ar gyfer y rhai sydd â mwy o gysylltiad.
Bydd y brifysgol yn cydweithio â'r GIG, â theuluoedd a rhanddeiliaid yn y trydydd sector, gan gynnwys Sefydliad Paul Ridd a Pobl yn Gyntaf Cymru, i ddatblygu'r fframwaith, a bydd yn cael ei gyflwyno'n llawn o wanwyn y flwyddyn nesaf ymlaen. Ac rwy'n gwybod bod y sefydliad—ac maent wedi gwneud y pwynt yn gadarn iawn—yn credu y dylai'r hyfforddiant gynnwys pobl ag anableddau dysgu eu hunain mewn ffordd ryngweithiol, a chredaf y dylid cyflawni hyn, ac y bydd Sefydliad Paul Ridd yn rhan o'r grŵp a fydd yn cynllunio'r fframwaith ac a fydd yno i weld bod yr elfennau pwysig hyn wedi'u cynnwys yn y fframwaith.
Ac mewn gwirionedd, mae'r dull rydym yn ei roi ar waith yn mynd ymhellach na'r hyn y mae'r ddeiseb yn ei ofyn. Bydd hyfforddiant yn orfodol i holl staff y GIG sy'n gweithio mewn lleoliadau gofal sylfaenol a chymunedol, yn ogystal ag mewn ysbytai. A byddwn hefyd yn archwilio cyfleoedd i sefydlu'r fframwaith ar draws lleoliadau gofal cymdeithasol. Rydym hefyd yn archwilio i ba raddau y gellid cymhwyso'r fframwaith tair haen newydd ar gyfer awtistiaeth yn ogystal ag ar gyfer anableddau dysgu. Datblygir safonau hyfforddi ar gyfer gweithwyr proffesiynol sy'n gweithio gydag unigolion ag awtistiaeth. Yn ogystal, mae pasbort cyffredinol yn cael ei ddatblygu gyda defnyddwyr gwasanaethau, teuluoedd, gofalwyr a staff y GIG. Mae'r pasbort yn disgrifio'r materion sy'n effeithio ar yr unigolyn fel y gall gwasanaethau prif ffrwd y GIG ymateb yn briodol i'w hanghenion gofal. Bydd hwn yn fodel ar gyfer Cymru gyfan a chaiff ei gyflwyno ochr yn ochr â fframwaith addysg a hyfforddiant.
Felly, gobeithio fy mod wedi tawelu meddwl Sefydliad Paul Ridd a'r gymuned anabledd dysgu ehangach heddiw ynglŷn â'n bwriad a'n hymrwymiad i sefydlu rhaglen hyfforddi genedlaethol gynhwysfawr ar gyfer GIG Cymru cyn gynted â phosibl, rhaglen a fydd yn cynnwys hyfforddiant gorfodol a rhyngweithio â phobl sydd ag anableddau dysgu, oherwydd rwy'n cytuno mai dyna un o'r ffurfiau mwyaf grymus o ryngweithio.
Gofynnodd teulu Paul i mi heddiw a ellid enwi'r fframwaith newydd ar ôl eu brawd, Paul. Rwy'n credu y byddai hynny'n syniad ardderchog i gofio am Paul Ridd.
Thank you. Can I call on Janet Finch-Saunders to reply to the debate?
Diolch. A gaf fi alw ar Janet Finch-Saunders i ymateb i'r ddadl?
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Well, first off, I would like to thank the Deputy Minister for what I think has probably been one of the most positive responses that I've heard in this Chamber since I've been an Assembly Member. You've listened, you've acted and I think you've gone one step further, really, to actually make this petition very meaningful. And it really only remains for me to thank the Paul Ridd Foundation and, indeed, Paul's family, again, for bringing this petition forward and for their work—hard work—in seeking improvements to care for people with learning disabilities.
Of course, the Petitions Committee will now consider the petition again in light of all the contributions made. I think that the contributions made from fellow Assembly Members here today again made it very evident that we do take petitions very seriously indeed, and that this one in particular was very, very important. We will obviously discuss your response during committee, but on behalf of the committee, I would like to thank every Member who has stayed for this debate today, and huge thanks again to you, Deputy Minister. Diolch yn fawr.
Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Wel, yn gyntaf, hoffwn ddiolch i'r Dirprwy Weinidog am yr hyn sydd wedi bod, mae'n debyg, yn un o'r ymatebion mwyaf cadarnhaol i mi eu clywed yn y Siambr hon ers i mi ddod yn Aelod Cynulliad. Rydych wedi gwrando, rydych wedi gweithredu ac rwy'n credu eich bod wedi mynd un cam ymhellach, mewn gwirionedd, i wneud y ddeiseb hon yn un ystyrlon iawn. A'r cyfan sydd gennyf i'w wneud yw diolch i Sefydliad Paul Ridd ac yn wir i deulu Paul, unwaith eto, am gyflwyno'r ddeiseb hon ac am eu gwaith—gwaith caled—yn ceisio gwella gofal i bobl ag anableddau dysgu.
Wrth gwrs, bydd y Pwyllgor Deisebau yn ystyried y ddeiseb eto yn awr yng ngoleuni'r holl gyfraniadau a wnaed. Credaf fod y cyfraniadau a wnaed gan gyd-Aelodau'r Cynulliad yma heddiw wedi dangos yn amlwg iawn ein bod yn llwyr o ddifrif ynghylch deisebau, a bod y ddeiseb hon yn arbennig yn bwysig iawn. Yn amlwg, byddwn yn trafod eich ymateb yn y pwyllgor, ond ar ran y pwyllgor, hoffwn ddiolch i bob Aelod sydd wedi aros ar gyfer y ddadl hon heddiw, a diolch yn fawr iawn eto i chi, Ddirprwy Weinidog. Diolch yn fawr.
Thank you very much. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. Therefore the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Y cynnig yw derbyn y cynnig. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Na. Felly, derbynnir y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Before I move on to the next item, can I just say we are aware that there is some sort of high whistle or technical noise? We are investigating it, but if it is going to get any worse or carry on for any length of time, we'll have to see what we can do, but we'll carry on as long as we can.
Cyn i mi symud ymlaen at yr eitem nesaf, a gaf fi ddweud ein bod yn ymwybodol fod yna ryw sŵn chwibanu neu sŵn technegol uchel? Rydym yn ymchwilio iddo, ond os yw'n mynd i waethygu neu barhau am amser, bydd yn rhaid i ni weld beth y gallwn ei wneud, ond fe barhawn cyhyd ag y gallwn.
Deputy Presiding Officer, it is quite intense. It's very difficult to listen to the debate while it's there.
Ddirprwy Lywydd, mae'n eithaf swnllyd. Mae'n anodd iawn gwrando ar y ddadl tra'i fod yno.
All right. Okay. I'll adjourn for five minutes, then, to see if we can find out exactly what is happening. We'll adjourn and I'll ring the bell and give you a minute's notice to come back in. Thank you.
Popeth yn iawn. O'r gorau. Fe ohiriaf am bum munud, felly, i weld a allwn gael gwybod yn union beth sy'n digwydd. Fe ohiriwn ac fe ganaf y gloch a rhoi munud o rybudd i chi ddod yn ôl i mewn. Diolch.
Ataliwyd y Cyfarfod Llawn am 16:39.
Plenary was suspended at 16:39.
Ailymgynullodd y Cynulliad am 16:54.
The Assembly reconvened at 16:54.
Okay, then, we'll reconvene, and thank you very much for your patience on that. I think we've hopefully found the solution to that.
Iawn felly, fe wnawn ni ailymgynnull, a diolch yn fawr am eich amynedd ar hynny. Rwy'n credu ein bod wedi dod o hyd i'r ateb, gobeithio.
Detholwyd y gwelliannau canlynol: gwelliant 1 yn enw Rebecca Evans, gwelliant 2 yn enw Caroline Jones, a gwelliannau 3, 4 a 5 yn enw Darren Millar. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 eu dad-ddethol.
The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Rebecca Evans, amendment 2 in the name of Caroline Jones, and amendments 3, 4 and 5 in the name of Darren Millar. If amendment 1 is agreed amendments 2, 3 and 4 will be deselected.
So, we're going to move on now to item 10, which is the Plaid Cymru debate on access to health services, and I call on Helen Mary Jones to move the motion. Helen.
Felly, symudwn ymlaen yn awr at eitem 10, sef dadl Plaid Cymru ar fynediad at wasanaethau iechyd, a galwaf ar Helen Mary Jones i gyflwyno'r cynnig. Helen.
Cynnig NDM7178 Rhun ap Iorwerth
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:
1. Yn mynegi pryder ynghylch y diffyg mynediad at wasanaethau meddygol sylfaenol, gan gynnwys meddygon teulu a deintyddiaeth y GIG, mewn sawl rhan o Gymru.
2. Yn galw am recriwtio a chadw staff meddygol ychwanegol i sicrhau mynediad priodol at wasanaethau iechyd ledled Cymru.
Motion NDM7178 Rhun ap Iorwerth
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
1. Expresses concern with the lack of access to basic medical services, including GPs and NHS dentistry, in many parts of Wales.
2. Calls for the recruitment and retention of additional medical staff to ensure appropriate access to health services across Wales.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. We want to focus in this debate—I'm pleased to move the motion, tabled in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth—we want to focus in this debate on access to community care services, community health services.
Now, I don't feel I have to spend terribly long in this Chamber setting out the fact that we have a real problem. The number of GPs, for example, has fallen since 2010 from 1,991 to 1,964 at a time when demand has gone up. We know that when it comes to access to the dentistry service—and I know my colleague Siân Gwenllian will have more to say to this later in the debate—only one in six dentists in Wales are taking on new national health patients at the moment.
When the health committee recently reported on community nursing, we were shocked to discover that we, in fact, don't know how many district nurses we've got. We don't know what the state of community nursing is in Wales, because the data isn't there. And we all know, in this Chamber, from our constituency and regional postbags, and many of us from our personal experience, of people waiting weeks and weeks to see a GP or to access other services in community services and GP surgeries for non-urgent appointments. And we also know that there are huge disparities in services across Wales, and that poorer communities are disproportionately badly served—
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rydym am ganolbwyntio yn y ddadl hon—rwy'n falch o gyflwyno'r cynnig a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rhun ap Iorwerth—rydym am ganolbwyntio yn y ddadl hon ar fynediad at wasanaethau gofal cymunedol, gwasanaethau iechyd cymunedol.
Nawr, nid wyf yn teimlo bod rhaid i mi dreulio llawer o amser yn y Siambr hon yn nodi'r ffaith bod gennym broblem wirioneddol. Mae nifer y meddygon teulu, er enghraifft, wedi gostwng ers 2010 o 1,991 i 1,964 ar adeg pan fo'r galw wedi codi. O ran mynediad at y gwasanaeth deintyddiaeth—a gwn y bydd gan fy nghyd-Aelod Siân Gwenllian fwy i'w ddweud am hyn yn ddiweddarach yn y ddadl—gwyddom mai dim ond un o bob chwe deintydd yng Nghymru sy'n derbyn cleifion gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol newydd ar hyn o bryd.
Pan gyflwynodd y pwyllgor iechyd adroddiad ar nyrsio cymunedol yn ddiweddar, cawsom syndod o ddarganfod nad ydym yn gwybod faint o nyrsys ardal sydd gennym mewn gwirionedd. Nid ydym yn gwybod beth yw cyflwr nyrsio cymunedol yng Nghymru am nad yw'r data ar gael. Ac rydym i gyd yn gwybod, yn y Siambr hon, o'n gohebiaeth etholaethol a rhanbarthol, a llawer ohonom o'n profiad personol, am bobl yn aros am wythnosau bwy'i gilydd i weld meddyg teulu neu i gael mynediad at wasanaethau eraill mewn gwasanaethau cymunedol a meddygfeydd meddygon teulu ar gyfer apwyntiadau nad ydynt yn rhai brys. A gwyddom hefyd fod gwahaniaethau enfawr rhwng gwasanaethau ledled Cymru, a bod cymunedau tlotach yn cael eu gwasanaethu'n anghyfartal o wael—
Will you give way?
A wnewch chi ildio?
I will happily give way, yes.
Rwy'n hapus i ildio.
I hope I didn't intervene too early, but, actually, I agree with the point you just made, which is that one of the issues is the lack of uniformity, because I've got patches in my constituency that are exceptionally well provided for in terms of primary care, but also that engagement with community healthcare teams. There's some amazing work going on. But then I have issues in some areas with dentistry accessibility, and there doesn't seem to be no rhyme nor reason.
Gobeithio na wneuthum ymyrryd yn rhy gynnar, ond mewn gwirionedd, cytunaf â'r pwynt rydych newydd ei wneud, sef mai un o'r problemau yw'r diffyg unffurfiaeth, gan fod gennyf ardaloedd yn fy etholaeth lle mae'r ddarpariaeth yn eithriadol o dda o ran gofal sylfaenol, yn ogystal â'r ymgysylltiad â thimau gofal iechyd cymunedol. Mae gwaith anhygoel yn digwydd. Ond mae gennyf broblemau mewn rhai ardaloedd o ran mynediad at ddeintyddiaeth, ac nid yw'n ymddangos bod unrhyw batrwm i'r anghysondeb na rheswm amdano.
I think that's a very valid point that Huw Irranca-Davies makes, which is that in a country the size of Wales, 3.5 million people, we should be able to achieve some consistency. I don't know if it's the case in his constituency, but it's certainly the national experience that the poorer the community, the more poorly it is likely to be served. It's not always the case, and we get excellent practice serving some of our poorer communities, but it's not good enough.
We had a discussion recently in First Minister's questions, raised by my colleague Adam Price, about the broken manifesto pledge to require GP surgeries to open at evenings and weekends. We were told that there was no demand for it. I find that incredibly hard to believe. But also we know—be that as it may—that in 2018, only 74 per cent of practices were open in what are called the core hours, between 8 a.m. and 6 p.m., and during those core hours they don't even have to be seeing patients. So, almost 30 per cent of them are not meeting that target, and that target isn't very effective anyway. I could go on, and I'm sure many of you across the Chamber could contribute as well.
So, why are we in this situation? Now, I'm sure the Minister, in his contribution, will talk about the Tory Westminster Government and austerity, and of course there's an element of truth in that. We don't have a magic money tree, as somebody once said. You can't produce resources from nowhere. But let me remind him, Deputy Presiding Officer, that his party has been in charge of the health service in Wales for 20 years, and for the first 10 of those years, from 1999 to 2010, times were relatively healthy in terms of public budgets.
I'd like to draw the Chamber's attention to some manifesto commitments from the Labour Party in the 2003 election. They began with a fairly open and honest contribution about what they hadn't done.
'We have not met...our targets to reduce waiting, but the solution in these areas is not to change direction or scale back on investment, reform and capacity building—it is to go faster and further'.
Well, fair enough. So, they then went on to say:
'In our second term we will ensure no-one waits more than 24 hours to see a member of their Primary Care Team, while at the same time widening the range of services provided at a local level.'
That would have been an excellent plan. They also went on to say:
'In our second term we will recruit 3,010 extra nurses and 410 extra doctors.'
Now, I must remind the Chamber that this was at a time when resources were not tight, and it didn't happen.
So, let's roll forward to the present day, and evidence from Health Improvement Wales and Social Care Wales that will be placed before the health committee tomorrow. It's written evidence, so it's already in the public domain. The evidence states
'The overriding aim of the strategy will be to ensure that, by 2030:
'We will have the right workforce to be able to deliver flexible and agile health and social care that meets the needs of the people of Wales.
'We will have a workforce that is reflective of the population’s diversity,'
and that
'We will have a workforce that feels valued.'
By 2030. Thirty-one years after the Minister's party took control of the health and care services in Wales.
I don't pretend that I know all the answers—I don't suppose anybody knows all the answers—but we do know that there are other big institutions, for example, multinational companies, with complex needs, varying markets, varying levels of demand, that plan their workforce to meet needs and they succeed in doing that years in advance. We might not want to follow their example, of course—there may be some ruthless practices that we wouldn't want to go within 100 miles of—but it does prove that it is possible to effectively plan the workforce that you need in a complex situation. We know we need competent management, we know we need proper resources, and we know we need people who are experts in workforce planning.
Now, the Minister will say that we have all this, but I would submit to this Chamber that that simply cannot be the case. Because, otherwise, we would have effective services in the places they were needed when people needed them. We know how important it is—and the Minister has said this frequently himself—that we strengthen our services in the community, because that is not only better for patients, but it also keeps patients out of secondary care, which is so much more expensive. Nobody wants to be in hospital—good primary care can make sure that that's not where people end up.
So, something is really wrong. And I'm sure that we will get the usual complacent response from the Minister saying that everything will be fine. Well, perhaps I'm a sceptic, Deputy Presiding Officer, but after 20 years, I'm beginning to doubt it. I think that the best chance of us sorting this out is a change of Government. Meantime, the Minister must show leadership and give direction and challenge. And above all, he must not be complacent about those communities that Huw Irranca-Davies has highlighted, which are not receiving the community services they deserve. We have waited as a nation long enough for the community health services that we need, and Labour in Wales has run out of excuses.
Rwy'n credu bod Huw Irranca-Davies yn gwneud pwynt dilys iawn, sef y dylem, mewn gwlad o faint Cymru, 3.5 miliwn o bobl, allu sicrhau rhywfaint o gysondeb. Nid wyf yn gwybod os yw'n wir yn ei etholaeth ef, ond yn sicr dyna'r profiad yn genedlaethol, mai po dlotaf yw cymuned, y mwyaf sâl y mae'n debygol o gael ei gwasanaethu. Nid yw bob amser yn wir, ac mae gennym bractisau rhagorol yn gwasanaethu rhai o'n cymunedau tlotaf, ond nid yw'n ddigon da.
Cawsom drafodaeth yn ddiweddar yn ystod cwestiynau i'r Prif Weinidog, trafodaeth a godwyd gan fy nghyd-Aelod Adam Price, am yr addewid maniffesto nas cadwyd i fynnu bod meddygfeydd yn agor gyda'r nos ac ar benwythnosau. Dywedwyd wrthym nad oedd galw am hynny. Rwy'n ei chael hi'n anodd iawn credu hynny. Ond hefyd rydym yn gwybod—bid a fo am hynny—mai dim ond 74 y cant o bractisau yn 2018 a oedd yn agored yn ystod yr hyn a elwir yn oriau craidd, rhwng 8 a.m. a 6 p.m., ac yn ystod yr oriau craidd hynny nid oes raid iddynt fod yn gweld cleifion hyd yn oed. Felly, mae bron i 30 y cant ohonynt yn methu cyrraedd y targed hwnnw, sy'n darged nad yw'n effeithiol iawn beth bynnag. Gallwn barhau, ac rwy'n siŵr y gallai llawer ohonoch ar draws y Siambr gyfrannu hefyd.
Felly, pam rydym yn y sefyllfa hon? Nawr, rwy'n siŵr y bydd y Gweinidog, yn ei gyfraniad, yn sôn am Lywodraeth Dorïaidd San Steffan a chyni, ac wrth gwrs mae elfen o wirionedd yn hynny. Nid oes gennym goeden arian hud, fel y dywedodd rhywun unwaith. Ni allwch gynhyrchu adnoddau o ddim byd. Ond gadewch i mi ei atgoffa, Ddirprwy Lywydd, fod ei blaid ef wedi bod yn gyfrifol am y gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru ers 20 mlynedd, ac am y 10 mlynedd gyntaf o'r blynyddoedd hynny, rhwng 1999 a 2010, roedd yr hinsawdd yn gymharol iach o ran cyllidebau cyhoeddus.
Hoffwn dynnu sylw'r Siambr at rai o ymrwymiadau maniffesto'r Blaid Lafur yn etholiad 2003. Dechreuasant gyda chyfraniad gweddol agored a gonest am yr hyn nad oeddent wedi'i wneud.
Nid ydym wedi cyrraedd...ein targedau ar gyfer lleihau aros, ond nid newid cyfeiriad neu gwtogi ar fuddsoddiad, diwygio a meithrin gallu yw'r ateb yn y meysydd hyn—ond mynd yn gyflymach ac ymhellach.
Wel, digon teg. Felly, aethant ymlaen wedyn i ddweud:
Yn ystod ein hail dymor byddwn yn sicrhau nad oes neb yn aros mwy na 24 awr i weld aelod o'u Tîm Gofal Sylfaenol, ac ar yr un pryd byddwn yn ehangu'r ystod o wasanaethau a ddarperir ar lefel leol.
Byddai hwnnw wedi bod yn gynllun rhagorol. Aethant ymlaen i ddweud hefyd:
Yn ein hail dymor byddwn yn recriwtio 3,010 o nyrsys ychwanegol a 410 o feddygon ychwanegol.
Nawr, rhaid i mi atgoffa'r Siambr fod hyn ar adeg pan nad oedd adnoddau'n dynn, ac ni wnaeth hynny ddigwydd.
Felly, gadewch i ni symud ymlaen at heddiw, a thystiolaeth gan Gwella Iechyd Cymru a Gofal Cymdeithasol Cymru a fydd yn cael ei gyflwyno gerbron y pwyllgor iechyd yfory. Mae'n dystiolaeth ysgrifenedig, felly mae eisoes yn hysbys i'r cyhoedd. Mae'r dystiolaeth yn datgan mai
Prif nod y strategaeth yw sicrhau, erbyn 2030:
Y bydd gennym y gweithlu cywir i allu darparu iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol hyblyg ac ystwyth sy'n diwallu anghenion pobl Cymru.
Bydd gennym weithlu sy'n adlewyrchu amrywiaeth y boblogaeth,
a
Bydd gennym weithlu sy'n teimlo ei fod yn cael ei werthfawrogi.
Erbyn 2030. Tri deg un mlynedd ar ôl i blaid y Gweinidog gymryd rheolaeth dros y gwasanaethau iechyd a gofal yng Nghymru.
Nid wyf yn esgus fy mod yn gwybod yr atebion i gyd—nid wyf yn tybio bod neb yn gwybod yr atebion i gyd—ond gwyddom fod sefydliadau mawr eraill, er enghraifft cwmnïau amlwladol, gydag anghenion cymhleth, marchnadoedd sy'n amrywio, gwahanol lefelau o alw, yn cynllunio eu gweithlu i ddiwallu anghenion ac maent yn llwyddo i wneud hynny flynyddoedd ymlaen llaw. Efallai nad ydym am ddilyn eu esiampl, wrth gwrs—efallai fod ganddynt rai arferion creulon na fyddem yn dymuno mynd o fewn 100 milltir iddynt—ond mae'n profi ei bod yn bosibl cynllunio'r gweithlu sydd ei angen arnoch yn effeithiol mewn sefyllfa gymhleth. Gwyddom fod arnom angen rheolaeth gymwys, gwyddom fod arnom angen adnoddau priodol, a gwyddom fod arnom angen pobl sy'n arbenigwyr ar gynllunio'r gweithlu.
Nawr, bydd y Gweinidog yn dweud bod gennym hyn i gyd, ond buaswn yn awgrymu wrth y Siambr hon nad yw hynny'n wir o gwbl. Oherwydd fel arall, byddai gennym wasanaethau effeithiol yn y lleoedd lle mae eu hangen pan fo pobl eu hangen. Gwyddom pa mor bwysig yw hi—ac mae'r Gweinidog wedi dweud hyn droeon—i ni gryfhau ein gwasanaethau yn y gymuned, oherwydd mae hynny nid yn unig yn well i gleifion, mae hefyd yn cadw cleifion allan o ofal eilaidd, sydd gymaint yn ddrutach. Nid oes neb am fod yn yr ysbyty—gall gofal sylfaenol da sicrhau nad dyna lle mae pobl yn mynd yn y pen draw.
Felly, mae rhywbeth mawr o'i le. Ac rwy'n siŵr y cawn yr ymateb hunanfodlon arferol gan y Gweinidog yn dweud y bydd popeth yn iawn. Wel, efallai fy mod yn sgeptig, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ond ar ôl 20 mlynedd, rwy'n dechrau amau hynny. Credaf mai'r cyfle gorau inni ddatrys hyn yw newid Llywodraeth. Yn y cyfamser, rhaid i'r Gweinidog ddangos arweiniad a rhoi cyfeiriad a her. Ac yn anad dim, rhaid iddo beidio â bod yn hunanfodlon am y cymunedau hynny y mae Huw Irranca-Davies wedi tynnu sylw atynt, cymunedau nad ydynt yn cael y gwasanaethau cymunedol y maent yn eu haeddu. Fel gwlad, rydym wedi aros yn ddigon hir am y gwasanaethau iechyd cymunedol sydd eu hangen arnom, ac mae Llafur yng Nghymru wedi rhedeg allan o esgusodion.
I have selected the five amendments to the motion. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2, 3 and 4 will be deselected. Can I ask the Minister for Health and Social Services to move formally amendment 1 tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans.
Rwyf wedi dethol y pum gwelliant i'r cynnig. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 eu dad-ddethol. A gaf fi ofyn i'r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol gynnig gwelliant 1, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rebecca Evans, yn ffurfiol.
Gwelliant 1—Rebecca Evans
Dileu popeth a rhoi yn ei le:
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:
1. Yn nodi’r camau gweithredu cadarnhaol sydd ar y gweill drwy Fodel Gofal Sylfaenol Cymru i wella mynediad pobl, ddydd a nos, at y gweithiwr proffesiynol a’r gwasanaeth cywir ar gyfer eu hanghenion penodol.
2. Yn nodi’r gwelliant amlwg yn lefelau recriwtio meddygon i’r rhaglen hyfforddiant arbenigol ar gyfer meddygon teulu eleni.
Amendment 1—Rebecca Evans
Delete all and replace with:
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
1. Notes the positive action underway through the Primary Care Model for Wales to improve people’s access, day and night, to the right professional and service for their particular needs.
2. Notes the marked improvement in the recruitment of doctors to the GP speciality training programme this year.
Cynigiwyd gwelliant 1.
Amendment 1 moved.
Formally.
Yn ffurfiol.
Thank you. I call on Caroline Jones to move amendment 2, tabled in her own name. Caroline.
Diolch. Galwaf ar Caroline Jones i gynnig gwelliant 2, a gyflwynwyd yn ei henw. Caroline.
Gwelliant 2—Caroline Jones
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ôl pwynt 1 ac ailrifo yn unol â hynny:
Yn gresynu bod dros 119,000 o gleifion yng Nghymru o dan ofal practisau meddygon teulu mewn perygl ac yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau bod gofal sylfaenol yn cael ei ariannu'n ddigonol drwy dderbyn o leiaf 10 y cant o gyllideb gyfan y GIG.
Amendment 2—Caroline Jones
Add as new point after point 1 and renumber accordingly:
Regrets that over 119,000 patients in Wales are covered by GP practices at risk and calls upon the Welsh Government to ensure that primary care is adequately funded by receiving at least 10 per cent of the overall NHS budget.
Cynigiwyd gwelliant 2.
Amendment 2 moved.
Formally. Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I thank Plaid Cymru for tabling this debate today. For those who didn't attend the BMA's briefing on the current state of general practice in Wales, let's just say that the message was dire.
As alluded to in my amendment to this motion, nearly 120,000 GP patients are covered by practices at risk. The BMA produced a heat map covering all health boards, highlighting practices that have closed and those under threat of closure. Aneurin Bevan has 32 practices with an uncertain future.
GPs at the event expressed concern that general practice might never recover from the damage being done by underinvestment and mismanagement by local health boards. Practices are simply handing back their contracts because they cannot cope. GPs are being asked to do much more with a lot less. We are spending more than ever on healthcare, yet the share given to primary care has continued to shrink. Despite 90 per cent of all contacts with the NHS occurring in primary care, primary care receives around 7 per cent of NHS funding. On top of this, practices are being stung by enormous service charges and directives that do allow for strategic planning or expansion of premises.
We have to do all that we can to protect general practice in Wales, and we have to start by ensuring fair funding for GPs. Primary care should receive at least 10 per cent of the NHS budget. The share of the budget has been falling year on year, and anything under 10 per cent is simply unsustainable. We also have to address the enormous service charges imposed on GP practices by health boards.
The independent contractor model for primary care has served Welsh patients well for decades, but it is now facing an existential threat. If we lose these GP practices, then we lose primary care for good. Health boards have proved they cannot manage practices as well as our independent GPs. Local health board-managed practices cost as much as 30 per cent more to run.
General practice is the front line of our health service, and it's time that the Welsh Government recognised this and did all it can to adequately fund and provision it. Diolch yn fawr.
Yn ffurfiol. Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Diolch i Blaid Cymru am gyflwyno'r ddadl hon heddiw. I'r rhai nad oeddent yn bresennol yn sesiwn friffio Cymdeithas Feddygol Prydain ar gyflwr practisau meddygon teulu yng Nghymru, gadewch i ni ddweud bod y neges yn un enbyd.
Fel y crybwyllwyd yn fy ngwelliant i'r cynnig hwn, mae bron 120,000 o gleifion meddygon teulu yn cael gofal mewn practisau sydd mewn perygl. Cynhyrchodd y BMA fap gwres sy'n cynnwys pob bwrdd iechyd, gan dynnu sylw at bractisau sydd wedi cau a'r rhai sydd dan fygythiad o gau. Mae gan Aneurin Bevan 32 o bractisau y mae eu dyfodol yn ansicr.
Mynegwyd pryder gan feddygon teulu yn y digwyddiad na fyddai practisau meddygon teulu byth yn gwella o'r difrod a wneir gan danfuddsoddi a chamreoli'r byrddau iechyd lleol. Yn syml, mae practisau'n trosglwyddo eu contractau yn ôl am na allant ymdopi. Gofynnir i feddygon teulu wneud llawer mwy gyda llawer llai. Rydym yn gwario mwy nag erioed ar ofal iechyd, ac eto mae'r gyfran a roddir i ofal sylfaenol wedi parhau i grebachu. Er bod 90 y cant o'r holl gysylltiadau â'r GIG yn digwydd ym maes gofal sylfaenol, tua 7 y cant o gyllid y GIG y mae gofal sylfaenol yn ei gael. Ar ben hyn, mae practisau'n gorfod wynebu taliadau gwasanaeth enfawr a chyfarwyddebau sy'n caniatáu ar gyfer cynllunio strategol neu ehangu safleoedd.
Rhaid inni wneud popeth a allwn i amddiffyn practisau meddygon teulu yng Nghymru, a rhaid inni ddechrau drwy sicrhau cyllid teg i feddygon teulu. Dylai gofal sylfaenol gael o leiaf 10 y cant o gyllideb y GIG. Mae'r gyfran o'r gyllideb wedi bod yn gostwng o flwyddyn i flwyddyn, ac mae unrhyw beth o dan 10 y cant yn anghynaliadwy. Rhaid inni hefyd fynd i'r afael â'r taliadau gwasanaeth enfawr a godir ar bractisau meddygon teulu gan fyrddau iechyd.
Mae'r model contractwr annibynnol ar gyfer gofal sylfaenol wedi gwasanaethu cleifion Cymru'n dda ers degawdau, ond bellach mae'n wynebu bygythiad enfawr. Os collwn y practisau meddygon teulu hyn, byddwn yn colli gofal sylfaenol am byth. Mae byrddau iechyd wedi profi na allant reoli practisau cystal â'n meddygon teulu annibynnol. Mae practisau a reolir gan fyrddau iechyd lleol yn costio cymaint â 30 y cant yn fwy i'w rhedeg.
Practisau meddygon teulu yw rheng flaen ein gwasanaeth iechyd, ac mae'n bryd i Lywodraeth Cymru gydnabod hyn a gwneud popeth yn ei gallu i'w hariannu a'i cyflenwi'n ddigonol. Diolch yn fawr.
Thank you. I call on Angela Burns to move amendments 3, 4 and 5, tabled in the name of Darren Millar.
Diolch. Galwaf ar Angela Burns i gynnig gwelliannau 3, 4 a 5, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar.
Gwelliant 3—Darren Millar
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ôl pwynt 1 ac ailrifo yn unol â hynny:
Yn nodi pryderon parhaus Cymdeithas Feddygol Prydain Cymru ynghylch cynaliadwyedd gwasanaethau gofal sylfaenol yn y dyfodol a chyhoeddi map gwres diweddaraf practisau meddygon teulu Cymru.
Amendment 3—Darren Millar
Add as new point after point 1 and renumber accordingly:
Notes the ongoing concerns of the British Medical Association Cymru regarding the future sustainability of primary care services and the publication of the latest Welsh GP practice heat Map.
Gwelliant 4—Darren Millar
Ym mhwynt 2, ar ôl 'ychwanegol' rhoi 'a gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol eraill'.
Amendment 4—Darren Millar
In point 2, after 'staff' insert 'and other health professionals'.
Gwelliant 5—Darren Millar
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
Yn galw ymhellach ar Lywodraeth Cymru i gynnal adolygiad bon a brig o'r gwaith o gynllunio gweithlu yn y GIG yng Nghymru.
Amendment 5—Darren Millar
Add as new point at end of motion:
Further calls on the Welsh Government to undertake a root and branch review of workforce planning within the Welsh NHS.
Cynigiwyd gwelliannau 3, 4 a 5.
Amendments 3, 4 and 5 moved.
Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. I formally so move those amendments. I'd like to thank Helen Mary Jones for opening this debate, and I think the word or numbers '2030' will forever be emblazoned on my heart after today's series of debates, what with hepatitis C and the diagnosis targets, because you mention about the fact that we need our workforce in place, and the concern we have is the fact that the workforce is so out of kilter with the ever-growing needs of the population. Our cancer survival rates still lag behind other countries, and it's a recognised fact that early diagnosis is key to ensure that patients have a better chance of survival.
Now, Welsh Government have brought forward fresh thinking with the single cancer pathway and the rapid diagnostic clinics, but, according to Cancer Research UK, this work is at risk of being undermined by gaps in the workforce. Patient demand is increasing, the number of confirmed cases of cancer will increase to an annual total of 25,000 a year by 2035, up from the current 19,000. So, we must ensure that our diagnostic workforce keeps pace with that.
Again, for example, the demand for imaging services has risen by 10 per cent per year over the last five years, and yet the radiology workforce has only risen by 1 per cent. I see it in my health board of Hywel Dda, and I'm sure that other Members see it in the health boards that they have to deal with on a day-to-day basis. Most worryingly, all bar one health board are struggling to recruit and retain radiographers, and this last year, Welsh radiology departments spent an estimated £8.8 million on outsourcing, overtime, and insourcing extra staff—up by almost £4 million. If we had that £8.8 million that we could actually spend on training—because you need the training places and then recruiting the radiologist to our health boards—we would have a better use of that funding. Yes, Huw.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n cynnig y gwelliannau hynny'n ffurfiol. Hoffwn ddiolch i Helen Mary Jones am agor y ddadl hon, a chredaf y bydd y gair neu'r rhifau '2030' wedi'u cerfio ar fy nghalon am byth ar ôl y gyfres o ddadleuon a gawsom heddiw, rhwng hepatitis C a'r targedau diagnosis, gan eich bod yn sôn bod angen inni gael ein gweithlu yn ei le, a'r pryder sydd gennym yw fod y gweithlu mor anghydnaws ag anghenion cynyddol y boblogaeth. Mae ein cyfraddau goroesi canser yn dal i lusgo y tu ôl i wledydd eraill, ac mae'n ffaith gydnabyddedig fod diagnosis cynnar yn allweddol i sicrhau bod gan gleifion well gobaith o oroesi.
Nawr, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cyflwyno syniadau newydd gyda'r llwybr canser sengl a'r clinigau diagnostig cyflym, ond yn ôl Cancer Research UK, mae'r gwaith hwn mewn perygl o gael ei danseilio gan fylchau yn y gweithlu. Mae'r galw gan gleifion yn cynyddu, a bydd nifer yr achosion o ganser a gadarnhawyd yn cynyddu i gyfanswm blynyddol o 25,000 y flwyddyn erbyn 2035, i fyny o'r 19,000 presennol. Felly, rhaid inni sicrhau bod ein gweithlu diagnostig yn cadw ar ben hynny.
Eto, er enghraifft, mae'r galw am wasanaethau delweddu wedi codi 10 y cant y flwyddyn dros y pum mlynedd diwethaf, er mai dim ond 1 y cant o gynnydd a fu yn y gweithlu radioleg. Rwy'n ei weld yn fy mwrdd iechyd, Hywel Dda, ac rwy'n siŵr bod Aelodau eraill yn ei weld yn y byrddau iechyd y maent yn gorfod ymdrin â hwy o ddydd i ddydd. Yr hyn sy'n peri'r pryder mwyaf yw fod pob bwrdd iechyd ond un yn ei chael yn anodd recriwtio a chadw radiograffwyr, a'r llynedd, gwariodd adrannau radioleg Cymru £8.8 miliwn amcangyfrifedig ar gontractau allanol, goramser a staff ychwanegol—i fyny bron i £4 miliwn. Pe bai gennym yr £8.8 miliwn hwnnw i'w wario ar hyfforddiant—oherwydd rydych angen y lleoedd hyfforddi a recriwtio'r radiolegwyr i'n byrddau iechyd wedyn—gallem wneud gwell defnydd o'r cyllid hwnnw. Ie, Huw.
Thank you for giving way. I'm always interested in these debates to hear ideas of how we can resolve some of these quite complex situations. A number of members of my family are involved in radiography—some as clinical tutors within radiography as well—and we are training a lot of people, and yet, we still have parts of Wales, including places like Powys and Ceredigion and so on, where those trainees are choosing not to go and work where there are vacancies in those hospitals to work. So, we're training the people but they're choosing to go to Cardiff or to Bridgend or to wherever. So, I'm interested in the practical ideas about how we can resolve this, because we're doing the training in a number of these specialisms, but we're unable to recruit them into the areas that we need them.
Diolch i chi am ildio. Mae gennyf ddiddordeb bob amser yn y dadleuon hyn i glywed syniadau ynglŷn â sut y gallwn ddatrys rhai o'r sefyllfaoedd eithaf cymhleth hyn. Mae nifer o aelodau o fy nheulu'n gweithio ym maes radiograffeg—rhai ohonynt yn diwtoriaid clinigol ym maes radiograffeg hefyd—ac rydym yn hyfforddi llawer o bobl, ac eto, mae gennym rannau o Gymru o hyd, gan gynnwys lleoedd fel Powys a Cheredigion ac yn y blaen, lle mae'r hyfforddeion hynny'n dewis peidio â mynd i weithio lle mae swyddi gwag yn yr ysbytai hynny. Felly, rydym yn hyfforddi'r bobl ond maent hwy'n dewis mynd i Gaerdydd neu i Ben-y-bont ar Ogwr neu i ble bynnag. Felly, mae gennyf ddiddordeb yn y syniadau ymarferol ynglŷn â sut y gallwn ddatrys hyn, oherwydd rydym yn gwneud yr hyfforddiant mewn nifer o'r arbenigeddau hyn, ond ni allwn eu recriwtio i'r ardaloedd lle mae eu hangen.
And, of course, one of the ways of doing that is how we place our medical training places, where we put them and what we tie people into, because it's a recognised fact that if you start to train in a particular area, and you develop your social life there, your network there, you're far more likely to stay. I'm really sorry, I didn't realise I only had three minutes on this.
Ac wrth gwrs, un o'r ffyrdd o wneud hynny yw'r ffordd rydym yn lleoli ein lleoedd hyfforddiant meddygol, lle rydym yn eu rhoi a'r hyn rydym yn cysylltu pobl ag ef, oherwydd mae'n ffaith gydnabyddedig, os dechreuwch hyfforddi mewn ardal benodol, a'ch bod yn datblygu eich bywyd cymdeithasol, eich rhwydwaith yno, rydych chi'n llawer mwy tebygol o aros. Mae'n ddrwg iawn gennyf, nid oeddwn yn sylweddoli mai dim ond tri munud oedd gennyf ar hyn.
I shall be generous because you've taken an intervention, but it is three minutes normally.
Byddaf yn hael gan eich bod wedi derbyn ymyriad, ond tair munud ydyw fel arfer.
Thank you. There are similar shortages, obviously, with endoscopy nurses.
I did want to just touch on Caroline Jones's amendment, because we will be abstaining on it. Not because we don't support it, because we absolutely do, but the fundamental issue that we have with access to primary care services is that everything that this Government has done—the parliamentary review, the vision for health—is predicated on us taking our potential patients and seeing them at home, in the community, before they go anywhere else and do anything else. And primary care, I suspect from the numbers that I'm running, needs substantially more than 10 per cent in order to be able to meet the ambitions that we've all cleaved to as parties across this place on the parliamentary review to try to move that emphasis away from hospitals and into—[Inaudible.] So, it's a good amendment, but we can't support it because you put a number to it.
Diolch. Ceir prinder tebyg, yn amlwg, gyda nyrsys endosgopi.
Roeddwn am sôn am welliant Caroline Jones, oherwydd byddwn yn ymatal arno. Nid am nad ydym yn ei gefnogi, oherwydd rydym yn bendant yn ei gefnogi, ond y broblem sylfaenol sydd gennym o ran mynediad at wasanaethau gofal sylfaenol yw fod popeth y mae'r Llywodraeth hon wedi'i wneud—yr adolygiad seneddol, y weledigaeth ar gyfer iechyd—wedi'i seilio arnom ni'n gweld ein cleifion posibl yn y cartref, yn y gymuned, cyn iddynt fynd i unrhyw le arall a gwneud unrhyw beth arall. Ac rwy'n tybio o'r niferoedd rwy'n eu cyfrif fod angen cryn dipyn yn fwy na 10 y cant ar ofal sylfaenol er mwyn gallu cyflawni'r uchelgeisiau y mae pawb ohonom yn glynu wrthynt fel pleidiau ar draws y lle hwn ar yr adolygiad seneddol i geisio symud y pwyslais hwnnw oddi wrth yr ysbytai a thuag at—[Anghlywadwy.] Felly, mae'n welliant da, ond ni allwn ei gefnogi am eich bod yn rhoi rhif iddo.
Perhaps this might just be the time to gently remind Members that in a half-hour debate, Members get three minutes to move amendments, three minutes to speak. The Government response gets six minutes, and the mover and the closer get a total of eight minutes between them. In moving and seconding I will be generous, but for the next debate, I will not be generous, because you've now been told. So, there we go. Siân Gwenllian.
Efallai mai dyma'r amser i atgoffa'r Aelodau'n garedig y bydd Aelodau, mewn dadl hanner awr, yn cael tair munud i gynnig gwelliannau, tair munud i siarad. Caiff ymateb y Llywodraeth chwe munud, a bydd y sawl sy'n cynnig a'r sawl sy'n cloi yn cael cyfanswm o wyth munud rhyngddynt. Wrth gynnig ac eilio fe fyddaf yn hael, ond ar gyfer y ddadl nesaf, ni fyddaf yn hael, oherwydd rydych wedi cael gwybod yn awr. Felly, dyna ni. Siân Gwenllian.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Mae hi'n newyddion calonogol bod 186 o lefydd hyfforddi meddygon teulu wedi cael eu llenwi eleni, sy'n gynnydd ar y 136 oedd ar gael yn 2017, a oedd yn digwydd bod yr un ffigur yn union â'r un yn 2010. Mae'n hollbwysig bod y momentwm yma yn cael ei gynnal a'i gyflymu, fel y clywon ni gan Helen Mary, a hynny er mwyn datblygu y gweithlu angenrheidiol sydd ei angen ar gyfer y dyfodol, er mwyn rhoi gwell mynediad at wasanaethau i gleifion. Mae'n bwysig bod y cynnydd yma yn digwydd mewn gwahanol rannau o Gymru, ac mae angen cynllunio manwl, efo 23 y cant o feddygon teulu yn debygol o ymddeol ymhen pum mlynedd.
Mi fydd Aelodau yn ymwybodol o drafferthion mawr sydd yn codi yn fy etholaeth i o dro i dro, wrth i feddygon teulu ymddeol ac wrth i feddygfeydd fethu â denu meddygon newydd, yn enwedig rhai sy'n gallu cynnig gwasanaeth a gofal drwy'r Gymraeg.
Ac mi fydd rhai ohonoch chi hefyd yn cofio fy mod i wedi bod yn dadlau'r achos dros gael ysgol feddygol yn y gogledd, ym Mhrifysgol Bangor. Ac wedi cryn berswâd ac ymgyrchu a thrafod yn fan hyn, fe ildiodd y Llywodraeth, ac erbyn hyn mae'r criw cyntaf o fyfyrwyr meddygol yn astudio meddygaeth ym Mangor ac mae'r gwaith yn mynd yn ei flaen.
Mi oedd y Gweinidog yn gyndyn iawn o roi hyn ar waith ar y dechrau, ond fe welodd fod y ddadl roedden ni'n rhoi gerbron yn un rhesymegol, sef bod yna dystiolaeth o bob rhan o'r byd sy'n dangos bod myfyrwyr meddygol yn aros yn agos at y man lle maen nhw'n cael eu hyfforddi. A dwi yn ffyddiog y bydd rhai o'r criw cyntaf yma sydd ym Mangor heddiw yn dechrau plygio rhai o'r bylchau yn ein meddygfeydd a'n hysbytai ni, gan wella gofal cleifion ar draws y gogledd. Ond mae angen mwy o lefydd hyfforddi, gan gynnwys ym Mangor, a dwi'n ffyddiog y daw ysgol feddygol lawn i Fangor cyn hir.
Thank you very much. It’s encouraging news that 186 training places for GPs have been filled this year, which is an increase on the 136 available in 2017, which happens to be the same figure exactly as the one in 2010. It’s vital that this momentum is maintained and accelerated, as we heard from Helen Mary, in order to develop the vital workforce for the future, so that we can provide better access to services to patients. It’s important that this increase happens in different parts of Wales, and we need to plan in detail, with 23 per cent of GPs likely to retire in five years' time.
Members will be aware of the difficulties arising in my constituency, as GPs retire and a surgeries fail to attract new GPs, particularly those who can provide services through the medium of Welsh.
And some of you will also remember that I have been arguing the case for having a medical school in north Wales, at Bangor University. And after a great deal of persuasion and discussion here, the Government yielded, and by now, the first cohort of medical students are studying medicine in Bangor and the work continues there.
The Minister was loath to introduce this at the beginning, but he did see that the argument that we put forth was a very sound one, namely that there is evidence from all part of the world that shows that medical students remain close to the place where they are trained. And I am of the belief that some of this first cohort in Bangor today will start to plug some of the gaps in our surgeries and our hospitals, thus improving patient care across north Wales. But we need more training places, including those in Bangor, and I'm sure that a full medical school will come to Bangor soon.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Ydy, mae'n wych o beth gweld yr ysgol feddygol yno, neu'r addysg feddygol yno'n tyfu. Ydych chi'n cytuno bod yr hyn dwi'n ei weld yn fy etholaeth i ar hyn o bryd, yn ardal Caergybi—lle mae yna ddwy feddygfa, oherwydd methiant i recriwtio meddygon, wedi gorfod trosglwyddo i ofal y bwrdd iechyd, a hynny'n achosi argyfwng o ran gofal sylfaenol yng Nghaergybi—yn brawf arall o'r angen inni symud tuag at hyfforddi llawer mwy o feddygon, sydd ddim yn helpu pethau heddiw ond yn sicr yn gwneud pethau'n haws mewn blynyddoedd?
Thank you very much. It is wonderful to see the medical school there, or the medical education there developing, at least. Would you agree with me that what I currently see in my constituency, in the Holyhead area—where there are two surgeries that, because of failures to recruit GPs, have had to transfer to the management of the health board, and that causes a crisis in terms of primary care in Holyhead—is proof yet again of the need for us to move towards training far more doctors, which won't help us today, but will certainly make things easier in future years?
Yn sicr. Mae'r cynllunio hirdymor yma yn angenrheidiol ar gyfer osgoi sefyllfaoedd fel yna i'r dyfodol. Dyna pam dwi mor falch—a dweud y gwir, bues i at y 18 o fyfyrwyr sydd ym Mangor ar hyn o bryd yn cael eu hyfforddiant, ac mae'n wych o beth, ond mae eisiau i hwnna gario ymlaen a chyflymu hefyd.
Mae prinder deintyddion yn creu problemau mynediad at wasanaeth ddeintyddol yn yr un ffordd. Ac yn fy etholaeth i eto, mae hyn yn golygu bod pobl yn gorfod teithio yn bell i gael triniaeth ar y gwasanaeth iechyd cyhoeddus. Yn sicr, mae angen mwy o ddeintyddion yn yr ardal, ac mae'r ffordd mae'r cytundeb deintyddol yn capio niferoedd cleifion NHS hefyd yn lleihau mynediad at wasanaethau deintyddol.
Dwi'n gweld bod fy amser i'n dirwyn i ben. Mae'n hanfodol bod cleifion yng Nghymru, sydd angen gweld meddyg teulu neu ddeintydd, yn gallu cael mynediad cyfartal ar draws Cymru ar gyfer y gwasanaethau yma—cyfartal o ran daearyddiaeth, a chyfartal o ran incwm a hefyd o ran oedran.
Certainly, yes. This long-term planning is vital to avoid situations such as that in the future. And that’s why I’m so pleased—if truth be told, I went to visit the 18 students in Bangor being trained at the moment, and it’s wonderful to see that, but we need that to increase and to accelerate as well.
There's a lack of dentists as well, which is creating problems in terms of access to dentistry services in the same way. And in my constituency, this means that people have to travel very far to receive treatment on the NHS. And certainly, we need more dentists in that area. And the way that the dental contract caps the numbers of NHS patients is also decreasing access to dentist services.
I see that time is against me. It’s vital that patients in Wales, who need to see a GP or a dentist, can have equal access across Wales to these services—equal in terms of geography, and equal in terms of income and also in terms of age.
I agree with those who have already said that primary care needs to get more resources, because we have to remember that 97 per cent of people never go anywhere near a hospital. So, I wouldn't disagree with what Angela Burns said, that we probably need to have it as more than 10 per cent, but it's good to see the Brexit Party supporting a 10 per cent target. It will be interesting to hear what the Minister has got to say on that.
Primary care is the last open access service. Often, primary care is dealing with issues such as debt or domestic violence, which of course have a serious detrimental impact on people's health, but aren't issues that necessarily couldn't be dealt with by other agencies. So, we have to get better at ensuring that we've got that multidisciplinary support for people who are turning up in primary care who could be seen by a debt counsellor or could be seen by a social worker, who can help them dig themselves out of very difficult situations.
I think one of the frustrations for my constituents is the inconsistency of access to primary care. So, we have some GP surgeries where you're able to book an appointment online, and others where you can't. I think it's quite difficult for patients to understand why that is. I note the uptake of a digital booking system has gone up from about 220,000 to 350,000, but that's well short of the target of over 870,000, and it would be interesting to hear from the Minister as to whether doctors' surgeries are simply refusing to engage with the way in which the world has moved on, technically. People expect that, if they can buy a book online, a ticket to a match, or a piece of clothing, they feel they ought to be able to book a doctor's appointment online, rather than having the frustration of holding onto the phone at 8 o'clock in the morning in the hope that they will get answered before all the places have been booked.
I raised in the Assembly a couple of weeks ago the fact that people who need to get their ears syringed were instead being told by GP surgeries that this was no longer in the general medical services contract and they were being diverted to other agencies who were charging up to £95. So that needs sorting out, because these are pretty basic pieces of primary care intervention, just the same as foot care for older people, who can become crippled if they don't have somebody to cut their toenails, if they can no longer reach down and cut them themselves.
So I think these are really important things. I acknowledge completely that we've boosted Choose Pharmacy to enable simple primary care tasks to be done on a walk-in basis by the pharmacist, who is a highly trained individual and much underused. But I think that we have to acknowledge that there's much that's going on that's very good.
There are some existential threats to the health service arising out of Brexit. The first one is just that we've got over 1,300 NHS workers from Europe employed by the NHS in Wales, including 7 per cent of our doctors. Are we going to be able to retain them if Brexit goes ahead? People might feel they're no longer welcome here and they're certainly able to vote with their feet. These are highly employable anywhere in the world.
Rwy’n cytuno â’r rhai sydd eisoes wedi dweud bod angen i ofal sylfaenol gael mwy o adnoddau, oherwydd mae’n rhaid i ni gofio nad yw 97 y cant o bobl byth yn mynd yn agos at ysbyty. Felly, ni fuaswn yn anghytuno â'r hyn a ddywedodd Angela Burns, fod angen i ni ei gael yn fwy na 10 y cant mae’n debyg, ond mae'n dda gweld Plaid Brexit yn cefnogi targed o 10 y cant. Bydd yn ddiddorol clywed yr hyn sydd gan y Gweinidog i'w ddweud ar hynny.
Gofal sylfaenol yw'r gwasanaeth mynediad agored olaf. Yn aml, mae gofal sylfaenol yn ymdrin â phroblemau fel dyled neu drais domestig, sydd wrth gwrs yn cael effaith niweidiol ddifrifol ar iechyd pobl, ond nid ydynt o reidrwydd yn faterion na allai asiantaethau eraill ymdrin â hwy. Felly, mae'n rhaid i ni ddod yn well am sicrhau bod gennym y gefnogaeth amlddisgyblaethol honno i bobl sy'n troi at ofal sylfaenol y gallai cwnselydd dyledion neu weithiwr cymdeithasol eu gweld, pobl a allai eu helpu i ddod allan o sefyllfaoedd anodd iawn.
Rwy'n credu mai un o'r rhwystredigaethau i fy etholwyr yw anghysondeb mynediad at ofal sylfaenol. Mae gennym rai meddygfeydd lle gallwch drefnu apwyntiad ar-lein, ac eraill lle na allwch wneud hynny. Rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n eithaf anodd i gleifion ddeall pam fod hynny’n digwydd. Nodaf fod y defnydd o system ddigidol ar gyfer trefnu apwyntiad wedi cynyddu o tua 220,000 i 350,000, ond mae hynny'n llawer is na'r targed o dros 870,000, a byddai'n ddiddorol clywed gan y Gweinidog a yw meddygfeydd yn gwrthod cymryd rhan yn y ffordd y mae'r byd wedi symud ymlaen yn dechnolegol. Mae pobl yn disgwyl hynny, ac os gallant brynu llyfr ar-lein, tocyn i gêm, neu ddilledyn, teimlant y dylent allu trefnu apwyntiad meddyg ar-lein, yn hytrach nag wynebu’r rhwystredigaeth o ddal ati ar y ffôn am 8 o’r gloch yn y bore yn y gobaith y byddant yn cael ateb cyn i'r holl apwyntiadau gael eu llenwi.
Yn y Cynulliad ychydig wythnosau yn ôl, soniais fod meddygfeydd meddygon teulu yn dweud wrth bobl y mae angen iddynt gael eu clustiau wedi'u chwistrellu nad oedd hyn bellach yn rhan o’r contract gwasanaethau meddygol cyffredinol a'u bod yn cael eu dargyfeirio i asiantaethau eraill a oedd yn codi tâl o hyd at £95. Felly mae angen datrys hynny, oherwydd mae'r rhain ymyriadau gofal sylfaenol eithaf sylfaenol, fel y mae gofal traed i bobl hŷn, sy’n gallu mynd yn gloff os nad oes ganddynt rywun i dorri ewinedd eu traed, ac os na allant estyn i’w torri eu hunain mwyach.
Felly rwy'n credu bod y rhain yn bethau pwysig iawn. Rwy'n cydnabod yn llwyr ein bod wedi rhoi hwb i Dewis Fferyllfa i alluogi tasgau gofal sylfaenol syml i gael eu gwneud ar sail alw i mewn gan fferyllwyr, sy’n unigolion tra hyfforddedig na wneir hanner digon o ddefnydd ohonynt. Ond credaf fod yn rhaid i ni gydnabod bod llawer yn digwydd sy'n dda iawn.
Ceir bygythiadau enfawr i'r gwasanaeth iechyd yn sgil Brexit. Yr un cyntaf yw fod gennym dros 1,300 o weithwyr GIG o Ewrop yn cael eu cyflogi gan y GIG yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys 7 y cant o'n meddygon. A ydym yn mynd i allu eu cadw os yw Brexit yn digwydd? Efallai y bydd pobl yn teimlo nad oes croeso iddynt yma mwyach ac yn sicr, gallant bleidleisio â'u traed. Mae'r rhain yn gyflogadwy iawn mewn unrhyw ran o’r byd.
Are you winding up, please?
A ydych chi'n dirwyn i ben, os gwelwch yn dda?
I think that the biggest thing, I'd like to say, the biggest existential threat, is over potential US trade talks, which could lead to a massive increase in drug prices, if Donald Trump has anything to do with it, and particularly a lack of access to generic drugs, which are really, really important in keeping the budget for drugs down. And there are some pretty terrifying things going on in terms of identifying that this could actually nearly triple in price. So that's something that it's difficult for us to guard against, as drug purchases are not a devolved matter.
Credaf mai'r peth mwyaf yr hoffwn ei ddweud, y bygythiad mwyaf, yw’r sgyrsiau masnach posibl â’r Unol Daleithiau, a allai arwain at gynnydd enfawr ym mhrisiau cyffuriau os oes gan Donald Trump unrhyw beth i'w wneud ag ef, ac yn arbennig, diffyg mynediad at gyffuriau generig, sy'n wirioneddol bwysig i gadw'r gyllideb ar gyfer cyffuriau i lawr. Ac mae rhai pethau go ddychrynllyd yn digwydd o ran nodi y gallai hyn dreblu mewn pris, bron iawn. Felly mae hynny'n rhywbeth sy'n anodd i ni warchod yn ei erbyn, gan nad yw prynu cyffuriau yn fater wedi'i ddatganoli.
Thank you. Can I now call the Minister for Health and Social Services to reply—no, not to reply to the debate, to add to the debate? Vaughan Gething.
Diolch. A gaf fi alw yn awr ar y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol i ymateb—na, nid i ymateb i'r ddadl, i ychwanegu at y ddadl? Vaughan Gething.
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'd like to thank Members who've contributed to this debate. Of course, access to primary care services is a key part of the Government strategy 'Prosperity for All'. Medical services are a vital part of primary care for people across Wales and valued by us all. It's a real positive that, in the latest national survey, 93 per cent of people were positive about their most recent experience in primary care. However, we're all aware of the challenges that Wales and every country within the UK faces.
The old way of delivering primary medical and dental services is not sustainable, so we need to move on and rise to the challenge, as Members have recognised. 'A Healthier Wales' sets out our joint vision, across health and social care, for a whole-system transformation. Our vision is that everyone has a longer, healthier and happier life, is better able to remain active and independent in their own homes as long as possible. To do that, to deliver that transformation, we recognise the need to develop and diversify our workforce, to change the way that we work and signpost people to the most appropriate local service, to deliver the right care, at the right time and in the right place.
So, our health boards do have an ambitious work programme, with a focus on delivering a 24/7 model for primary care, that's both in hours and out of hours, with the roll-out of our 111 service. And, of course, to help move forward on the transformation of primary care, I've already invested £89 million in the transformation fund. Every single health board area in Wales is trialling a new and a better way of working. There are, of course, always going to be specific challenges that need to be addressed within local communities. I recognise the comments made by Huw Irranca.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Hoffwn ddiolch i'r Aelodau sydd wedi cyfrannu at y ddadl hon. Wrth gwrs, mae mynediad at wasanaethau gofal sylfaenol yn rhan allweddol o strategaeth y Llywodraeth, 'Ffyniant i Bawb'. Mae gwasanaethau meddygol yn rhan hanfodol o ofal sylfaenol i bobl ledled Cymru ac yn cael eu gwerthfawrogi gan bawb ohonom. Mae'n gadarnhaol iawn yn yr arolwg cenedlaethol diweddaraf fod 93 y cant o bobl yn gadarnhaol ynglŷn â’u profiad diweddaraf ym maes gofal sylfaenol. Fodd bynnag, rydym i gyd yn ymwybodol o'r heriau y mae Cymru a phob gwlad yn y DU yn eu hwynebu.
Nid yw'r hen ffordd o ddarparu gwasanaethau meddygol a deintyddol sylfaenol yn gynaliadwy, felly mae angen i ni symud ymlaen ac ymateb i'r her, fel y mae'r Aelodau wedi cydnabod. Mae 'Cymru Iachach' yn nodi ein gweledigaeth ar y cyd, ar draws iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, ar gyfer trawsnewid y system gyfan. Ein gweledigaeth yw fod pawb yn cael bywyd hirach, iachach a hapusach, yn gallu parhau i fod yn egnïol ac yn annibynnol yn eu cartrefi eu hunain cyhyd ag y bo modd. I wneud hynny, er mwyn cyflawni'r trawsnewidiad hwnnw, rydym yn cydnabod yr angen i ddatblygu ac arallgyfeirio ein gweithlu, i newid y ffordd rydym yn gweithio a chyfeirio pobl at y gwasanaeth lleol mwyaf priodol, i ddarparu'r gofal iawn, ar yr adeg iawn ac yn y lle iawn.
Felly, mae gan ein byrddau iechyd raglen waith uchelgeisiol, gyda ffocws ar ddarparu model 24/7 ar gyfer gofal sylfaenol, o fewn a thu allan i oriau arferol, gyda chyflwyno ein gwasanaeth 111. Ac wrth gwrs, er mwyn helpu i symud y gwaith o drawsnewid gofal sylfaenol yn ei flaen, rwyf eisoes wedi buddsoddi £89 miliwn yn y gronfa drawsnewid. Mae pob ardal bwrdd iechyd yng Nghymru yn treialu ffordd newydd a gwell o weithio. Bydd yna bob amser heriau penodol i’w goresgyn o fewn cymunedau lleol wrth gwrs. Rwy'n cydnabod y sylwadau a wnaed gan Huw Irranca.
Will you give way, Minister?
A wnewch chi ildio, Weinidog?
I can.
Gwnaf.
I thank the Minister for giving way, and the reason I ask him to give way is to ask him to join with me in welcoming something that he stood here in the debate with me previously, which is the issue of primary care provision in Llanharan. I hope he'll join with me in applauding Pencoed Medical Centre who have actually made the decision now, working with the local health board, finding some money available, to extend back into Llanharan and Brynna to provide 4.5 days a week of outreach surgeries into those communities, and he knows the impact it had on those communities. So, there are ways through this with the will and with a bit of clever funding put in the right direction.
Diolch i’r Gweinidog am ildio, a’r rheswm rwy’n gofyn iddo ildio yw er mwyn gofyn iddo ategu fy nghroeso i rywbeth y bu’n sefyll yma yn y ddadl gyda mi o’r blaen, sef darpariaeth gofal sylfaenol yn Llanharan. Rwy'n gobeithio y bydd yn ategu fy nghanmoliaeth i Ganolfan Feddygol Pencoed sydd wedi gwneud y penderfyniad yn awr, gan weithio gyda'r bwrdd iechyd lleol, ac ar ôl dod o hyd i ychydig o arian sydd ar gael, i ymestyn i mewn i Lanharan a Brynna i ddarparu 4.5 diwrnod yr wythnos o feddygfeydd allgymorth yn y cymunedau hynny, ac mae'n gwybod pa effaith a gafodd ar y cymunedau hynny. Felly, mae yna ffyrdd trwy hyn gydag ewyllys a chydag ychydig o arian clyfar yn cael ei roi i'r cyfeiriad cywir.
And that's a good example of the sort of progress we need to make to deliver real access to primary care. And I remember meeting the Member together with his local constituent to discuss the issues. I do get to go out and about and to hear directly from staff and residents. For example, I recently returned to Bryntirion with Hefin David to meet the team in a managed practice to hear about their challenge that happened when GP partners retired. They now have an occupational therapist, a clinical pharmacist, a physiotherapist, health support workers and access to paramedics as part of that team, and they're now planning for the future and much more optimistic. The primary school in Ely I visited to see the Designed to Smile initiative, a significantly effective programme shown to have achieved a 13.4 per cent reduction in the levels of dental decay in five-year-olds since 2008. And, of course, in Taff's Well, that practice is able to operate a GP triage system, and routine appointments are being delivered in one to two days. And that's now across the cluster; they're using funding to help provide patient information and signpost to wider services. There are the points that other people have made about investing in wider primary care services, in Choose Pharmacy and optometry, for example.
It was at Taff's Well, of course, that I announced the access standards for general medical services. I set out clearly what I and the people of Wales expect in providing real access. It's backed by £15 million of investment in the GP contract for access, including new digital telephony to help make it easier for patients to contact practices and access the services they need.
I will take one more intervention then I will need to make more progress—
A dyna enghraifft dda o'r math o gynnydd y mae'n rhaid i ni ei wneud i ddarparu mynediad go iawn at ofal sylfaenol, ac rwy’n cofio cyfarfod â'r Aelod gyda'i etholwr lleol i drafod y problemau. Rwy'n llwyddo i fynd o gwmpas a chlywed yn uniongyrchol gan staff a thrigolion. Er enghraifft, dychwelais i Fryntirion yn ddiweddar gyda Hefin David i gyfarfod â thîm mewn practis a reolir i glywed am yr her a’u hwynebodd pan ymddeolodd partneriaid a oedd yn feddygon teulu. Bellach mae ganddynt therapydd galwedigaethol, fferyllydd clinigol, ffisiotherapydd, gweithwyr cymorth iechyd a mynediad at barafeddygon yn rhan o'r tîm hwnnw, ac maent bellach yn cynllunio ar gyfer y dyfodol ac yn llawer mwy optimistaidd. Ymwelais â'r ysgol gynradd yn Nhrelái i weld y fenter Cynllun Gwên, rhaglen hynod o effeithiol y dangoswyd iddi sicrhau gostyngiad o 13.4 y cant yn lefelau pydredd dannedd plant pump oed ers 2008. Ac wrth gwrs, yn Ffynnon Taf, mae'r practis hwnnw'n gallu gweithredu system frysbennu meddygon teulu, gydag apwyntiadau rheolaidd yn cael eu darparu mewn un i ddau ddiwrnod. Ac mae hynny’n digwydd bellach ar draws y clwstwr; maent yn defnyddio cyllid i helpu i ddarparu gwybodaeth i gleifion a chyfeirio at wasanaethau ehangach. Mae yna bwyntiau y mae pobl eraill wedi'u gwneud ynglŷn â buddsoddi mewn gwasanaethau gofal sylfaenol ehangach, mewn Dewis Fferyllfa ac optometreg, er enghraifft.
Yn Ffynnon Taf, wrth gwrs, y cyhoeddais y safonau mynediad ar gyfer gwasanaethau meddygol cyffredinol. Nodais yn glir yr hyn rwyf fi a phobl Cymru yn ei ddisgwyl o ran darparu mynediad gwirioneddol. Yn gefn iddo mae buddsoddiad o £15 miliwn yn y contract meddygon teulu ar gyfer mynediad, gan gynnwys teleffoni digidol newydd i helpu i'w gwneud yn haws i gleifion gysylltu â meddygfeydd a chael mynediad at y gwasanaethau sydd eu hangen arnynt.
Fe gymeraf un ymyriad arall, yna bydd angen i mi wneud mwy o gynnydd—
I'm just really grateful, and I'm glad to hear all that good news; it is supremely positive. But I do want to point out that we have 29 practices at risk which have submitted sustainability applications, and another 29 at risk which are in the pre-application process. So, how does all that good news tie to the fact that we've got practices that are on the verge of closure or are under real problems of sustainability?
Rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn, ac rwy'n falch o glywed yr holl newyddion da; mae'n gadarnhaol tu hwnt. Ond rwyf am dynnu sylw at y ffaith bod gennym 29 practis mewn perygl sydd wedi cyflwyno ceisiadau cynaliadwyedd, a 29 arall sydd mewn perygl yn y broses cyn gwneud cais. Felly, sut y mae'r holl newyddion da yn cyd-fynd â'r ffaith bod gennym bractisau sydd ar fin cau neu sy’n cael problemau cynaliadwyedd go iawn?
As I've said many times in this Chamber, we will need to change the way that we deliver primary care. Single and double-handed practices, their ability to deliver the sort of range of services that we need, that's part of the reason we introduced clusters to help GP practices to work together with the wider primary care team to deliver a more sustainable way of delivering care.
Primary care will change and it should do to meet the legitimate expectations of the public and, actually, the agenda for health and care provided in the parliamentary review and in 'A Healthier Wales', and it includes dentistry, of course. More than 40,000 NHS patients regularly receive NHS dental care compared to five years ago. We're witnessing the highest ever level of child access to general dental practice, and that does not yet include children accessing the community dental services. We've also seen a reduction in children having general anaesthetics. Our reform agenda should help further to improve access, as we've previously discussed in this Chamber.
But it's not all, of course, about money or systems—it's about people and making sure we have the workforce to meet our needs. So, I'm delighted that this year we have once again overfilled our GP training places against an increased target. I increased the quota for GP training places from 136 to 160, but we have 186 places filled, the highest number of recruits into GP training ever in the history of Wales, and every single GP training scheme in every part of the country has been filled. That's part of our 'Train. Work. Live.' initiative.
While GP training incentives have helped us to meet our recruitment targets, it is an area where some of that recruitment has been historically difficult. There are, of course, challenges, and there will always be specific local issues to address. However, we do know what those challenges are. We have a vision for what we want to do, and we have a plan to achieve it. And more than that, we're taking action. We should be proud of the progress that we are making and delivering.
For my part, I recognise that there is always more to do and I am far from complacent about the challenges that face us, but this is a Government that is determined to keep our promises to meet the challenges that we face, in improving access to primary care, and I look forward to having more good news to report to the Chamber exactly on that in the next 18 months.
Fel y dywedais lawer gwaith yn y Siambr hon, bydd angen i ni newid y ffordd rydym yn darparu gofal sylfaenol. Meddygfeydd gydag un meddyg, neu ddau feddyg, eu gallu i ddarparu'r ystod o wasanaethau sydd eu hangen arnom, dyna ran o'r rheswm pam ein bod wedi cyflwyno clystyrau i helpu meddygfeydd i weithio gyda'r tîm gofal sylfaenol ehangach i gynnig ffordd fwy cynaliadwy o ddarparu gofal.
Bydd gofal sylfaenol yn newid, ac fe ddylai newid, i fodloni disgwyliadau dilys y cyhoedd a’r agenda iechyd a gofal a ddarperir yn yr adolygiad seneddol ac yn 'Cymru Iachach', ac mae'n cynnwys deintyddiaeth, wrth gwrs. Mae mwy na 40,000 o gleifion y GIG yn derbyn gofal deintyddol y GIG yn rheolaidd o gymharu â phum mlynedd yn ôl. Rydym yn dyst i'r lefel uchaf erioed o blant yn cael mynediad at bractis deintyddol cyffredinol, ac nid yw hynny'n cynnwys plant sy'n defnyddio'r gwasanaethau deintyddol cymunedol eto. Rydym hefyd wedi gweld gostyngiad yn nifer y plant sy'n cael anaestheteg gyffredinol. Dylai ein hagenda ddiwygio helpu ymhellach i wella mynediad, fel rydym wedi'i drafod o'r blaen yn y Siambr hon.
Ond nid yw'r cyfan, wrth gwrs, yn ymwneud ag arian neu systemau—mae'n ymwneud â phobl a sicrhau bod gennym y gweithlu i ddiwallu ein hanghenion. Felly, rwy'n falch iawn ein bod ni unwaith eto eleni wedi gorlenwi ein lleoedd hyfforddi meddygon teulu yn erbyn targed uwch. Cynyddais y cwota ar gyfer lleoedd hyfforddi meddygon teulu o 136 i 160, ond mae gennym 186 o leoedd wedi'u llenwi, y nifer uchaf o recriwtiaid i hyfforddiant meddygon teulu erioed yn hanes Cymru, ac mae pob cynllun hyfforddi meddygon teulu ym mhob rhan o'r wlad wedi'i lenwi. Mae hynny'n rhan o'n menter Hyfforddi, Gweithio, Byw.
Er bod cymhellion hyfforddi meddygon teulu wedi ein helpu i gyrraedd ein targedau recriwtio, mae'n faes lle mae peth o'r recriwtio hwnnw wedi bod yn anodd yn hanesyddol. Mae yna heriau, wrth gwrs, a bydd yna bob amser broblemau lleol penodol i’w datrys. Fodd bynnag, rydym yn gwybod beth yw'r heriau hynny. Mae gennym weledigaeth ar gyfer yr hyn rydym am ei wneud, ac mae gennym gynllun i'w gyflawni. Ac yn fwy na hynny, rydym yn gweithredu. Dylem fod yn falch o'r cynnydd rydym yn ei wneud ac yn ei gyflawni.
O'm rhan i, rwy'n cydnabod bod mwy i'w wneud bob amser ac rwy'n bell o fod yn hunanfodlon ynghylch yr heriau sy'n ein hwynebu, ond mae hon yn Llywodraeth sy'n benderfynol o gadw ein haddewidion i gyflawni'r heriau a wynebwn o ran gwella mynediad at ofal sylfaenol, ac edrychaf ymlaen at gael mwy o newyddion da i’w adrodd i'r Siambr ar hynny’n benodol yn y 18 mis nesaf.
Thank you. Can I call on Helen Mary Jones to reply to the debate?
Diolch. A gaf fi alw ar Helen Mary Jones i ymateb i'r ddadl?
I'm grateful to the Deputy Presiding Officer and to all Members who have contributed to this debate. I have very little time. The Deputy Presiding Officer has been kind enough to say she'll be generous, but I know better than to push my luck.
I'm grateful to Angela Burns for her support and we will be supporting her amendments 3, 4 and 5. She rightly highlights the increased demand, but that increased demand is not entirely unpredictable. We need to be able to look at the likely demand and to plan, and we're not doing that effectively yet.
Caroline Jones was right to highlight what the BMA have told us. I don't share her view that directly managed practices can't be successful. They're often more expensive because they're serving poorer areas with higher levels of need, but she's absolutely right to say that the current model isn't sustainable and that action is urgently needed. We won't be supporting her amendment 2, more or less for the same reasons as Angela Burns gave, because 10 per cent may or may not be the right figure. It may not be enough. It may be that we need more. It may be that at some point we can spend less. But I fully accept that the amendment is offered in the right spirit.
Siân Gwenllian rightly highlights particular concerns in her own area and talks about equal access, equal access not only geographically, but as we heard in my exchanges with Huw Irranca-Davies, around the need for the right services for people who find it more difficult, for poorer communities. It's very interesting she mentions the final arrival of the clinical school in the north, which was, of course, another thing that was promised in Labour's 2003 manifesto. I don't think we would have it by now if it hadn't been for the pressure from Siân and her colleagues, and we're still waiting for the clinical school in Gwent—a challenge we might offer to those Members who represent that area.
Jenny Rathbone is absolutely right to talk about the issues of inconsistency of access and I share some of the concerns she raises about Brexit. Also, some of the comments she made were similar to those of Huw Irranca-Davies, and, in that context, I look forward to them supporting the motion and rejecting the amendment because the amendment is, I'm afraid, the usual self-congratulatory nonsense from the Government. Why will they not just oppose our motions if they don't agree with them? The Minister says things like he is not complacent, and then he speaks as if he is. He talks about there being specific challenges and that we will recognise them and meet them. Well, Deputy Presiding Officer, we've been waiting 20 years for his party to meet them and his manifesto of 2003 identifies those challenges, sets out things that should have been done to sort them out, and he cannot wash his hands and pretend that it isn't a matter for him. His party has had this time. He says he's not complacent; well, that isn't how it feels from where we're standing, and I notice that there are some of his colleagues on his own backbenches who may not be very happy either.
In the end, this is not about problems in one or two places. This is not about problems of access in certain communities. It is something that all of us across this Chamber—and Labour Members have mentioned it today—recognise is affecting their constituencies. Twenty years on, it isn't good enough. He should either get on with it or get out of the way.
Diolch i'r Dirprwy Lywydd ac i'r holl Aelodau sydd wedi cyfrannu at y ddadl hon. Ychydig iawn o amser sydd gennyf. Mae'r Dirprwy Lywydd wedi bod yn ddigon caredig i ddweud y bydd hi'n hael, ond rwy'n gwybod na ddylwn wthio fy lwc.
Rwy'n ddiolchgar i Angela Burns am ei chefnogaeth a byddwn yn cefnogi ei gwelliannau 3, 4 a 5. Mae hi'n gywir i dynnu sylw at y galw cynyddol, ond nid yw'r galw cynyddol hwnnw'n gwbl anrhagweladwy. Mae angen i ni allu edrych ar y galw tebygol a chynllunio, ac nid ydym yn gwneud hynny'n effeithiol eto.
Roedd Caroline Jones yn iawn i dynnu sylw at yr hyn y mae'r BMA wedi'i ddweud wrthym. Nid wyf yn rhannu ei barn na all practisau a reolir yn uniongyrchol fod yn llwyddiannus. Maent yn aml yn ddrytach oherwydd eu bod yn gwasanaethu ardaloedd tlotach gyda lefelau uwch o angen, ond mae hi'n llygad ei lle i ddweud nad yw'r model presennol yn gynaliadwy a bod angen gweithredu ar frys. Ni fyddwn yn cefnogi ei gwelliant 2, fwy neu lai am yr un rhesymau ag a roddodd Angela Burns, oherwydd fe allai 10 y cant fod yn ffigur cywir, neu gallai beidio â bod yn ffigur cywir. Efallai na fydd yn ddigon. Efallai fod angen mwy arnom. Efallai y gallwn wario llai ar ryw adeg. Ond rwy’n derbyn yn llwyr fod y gwelliant wedi'i gynnig yn yr ysbryd iawn.
Mae Siân Gwenllian yn gywir i dynnu sylw at bryderon penodol yn ei hardal hi ac i siarad am fynediad cyfartal, mynediad cyfartal nid yn unig yn ddaearyddol, ond fel y clywsom yn fy nhrafodaeth â Huw Irranca-Davies, o ran yr angen am y gwasanaethau cywir i bobl sy'n ei chael yn anos, i gymunedau tlotach. Mae'n ddiddorol iawn ei bod yn sôn am ddyfodiad yr ysgol glinigol yn y gogledd o’r diwedd, rhywbeth arall a addawyd ym maniffesto Llafur yn 2003 wrth gwrs. Nid wyf yn credu y byddem wedi ei chael yn awr oni bai am y pwysau gan Siân a'i chydweithwyr, ac rydym yn dal i aros am yr ysgol glinigol yng Ngwent—her y gallem ei chynnig i'r Aelodau sy'n cynrychioli'r ardal honno.
Mae Jenny Rathbone yn llygad ei lle i siarad am anghysondeb mynediad ac rwy'n rhannu rhai o'r pryderon y mae'n eu mynegi ynghylch Brexit. Hefyd, roedd rhai o'r sylwadau a wnaeth yn debyg i rai Huw Irranca-Davies, ac yn y cyd-destun hwnnw, edrychaf ymlaen at eu gweld yn cefnogi'r cynnig ac yn gwrthod y gwelliant oherwydd bod y gwelliant, rwy'n ofni, yn rhoi’r un nonsens hunanglodforus arferol gan y Llywodraeth. Pam na wrthwynebant ein cynigion os nad ydynt yn cytuno â hwy? Mae'r Gweinidog yn dweud nad yw'n hunanfodlon a phethau felly, ac yna mae'n siarad fel pe bai’n hunanfodlon. Mae'n dweud bod heriau penodol yn bodoli ac y byddwn yn eu nodi ac yn mynd i’r afael â hwy. Wel, Ddirprwy Lywydd, rydym wedi bod yn aros ers 20 mlynedd i'w blaid fynd i'r afael â hwy ac mae ei faniffesto yn 2003 yn nodi'r heriau hynny, yn nodi’r pethau y dylid bod wedi'u gwneud i'w datrys, ac ni all olchi ei ddwylo ac esgus nad yw’n fater iddo ef. Mae ei blaid wedi cael amser. Mae'n dweud nad yw'n hunanfodlon; wel, nid dyna sut y mae'n teimlo o ble rydym ni'n sefyll, ac rwy'n sylwi efallai nad yw rhai o'i gyd-Aelodau ar ei feinciau cefn ei hun yn hapus iawn chwaith.
Yn y diwedd, nid yw hyn yn ymwneud â phroblemau mewn un neu ddau o leoedd. Nid yw hyn yn ymwneud â phroblemau mynediad mewn rhai cymunedau’n unig. Mae'n rhywbeth y mae pob un ohonom ar draws y Siambr hon—ac mae Aelodau Llafur wedi sôn amdano heddiw—yn cydnabod ei fod yn effeithio ar eu hetholaethau. Ugain mlynedd yn ddiweddarach, nid yw'n ddigon da. Dylai naill ai fwrw iddi neu gamu o’r neilltu.
The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Object. Therefore, we defer voting under this item until voting time.
Y cynnig yw derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Gwrthwynebiad. Felly, gohiriwn y pleidleisio o dan yr eitem hon tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Voting deferred until voting time.
Detholwyd y gwelliannau canlynol: gwelliant 1 yn enw Rebecca Evans, gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 yn enw Darren Millar, a gwelliant 5 yn enw Caroline Jones. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 eu dad-ddethol.
The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Rebecca Evans, amendments 2, 3 and 4 in the name of Darren Millar, and amendment 5 in the name of Caroline Jones. If amendment 1 is agreed amendments 2, 3 and 4 will be deselected.
We now move to item 11, and can I just remind Members again of the timings? I have been generous in the last half-hour debate. I will not be as generous in this half-hour debate because you have all been told what the timings are. So, item 11 is a Plaid Cymru debate and it's on Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board's new rotas, and I call on Llyr Gruffydd to move the motion. Llyr.
Symudwn yn awr at eitem 11, ac a gaf fi atgoffa'r Aelodau eto ynglŷn â’r amseriadau? Bûm yn hael yn y ddadl hanner awr ddiwethaf. Ni fyddaf mor hael yn y ddadl hanner awr hon oherwydd dywedwyd wrthych i gyd beth yw'r amseriadau. Felly, eitem 11 yw dadl Plaid Cymru ar rotas newydd Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr, a galwaf ar Llyr Gruffydd i wneud y cynnig. Llyr.
Cynnig NDM7179 Rhun ap Iorwerth
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:
1. Yn gwrthwynebu penderfyniad Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr i gyflwyno rotas newydd a fydd yn ymestyn sifftiau staff nyrsio o fis Ionawr 2020.
2. Yn credu bod hwn yn gam niweidiol ac yn gam yn ôl—yn enwedig ar adeg pan fo mwy nag un o bob deg swydd nyrsio yn y Bwrdd Iechyd yn wag.
3. Yn nodi bod Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr wedi bod o dan fesurau arbennig dros y pedair blynedd diwethaf a'i fod felly o dan reolaeth uniongyrchol y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol.
4. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i wrthdroi'r penderfyniad a diogelu amodau gwaith nyrsys.
Motion NDM7179 Rhun ap Iorwerth
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
1. Opposes Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board’s decision to introduce new rotas that will extend shifts for nursing staff from January 2020.
2. Believes this is a damaging and retrograde step—particularly at a time when more than one in ten nursing posts in the health board is vacant.
3. Notes that BCUHB has been in special measures for the past four years and is therefore under the direct control of the Minister for Health and Social Services.
4. Calls on the Welsh Government to overturn the decision and protect nurses’ working conditions.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. Now, last week, of course, Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board decided that they would force nurses, midwives and healthcare support workers to extend their shifts for no extra pay. The plan was to enforce an extra 30-minute unpaid break per shift, even though many nurses, of course, don't have time to take their breaks as it is. And by the health board's own admission, it would have meant nurses working an extra unpaid shift per month to make up their hours. Now, the decision was meant to save around about £25,000 a month. Not an inconsiderable sum, you might say, but, of course, when you put it in context, the board is already spending over £1 million a month on agency nurses, then it's a relatively tiny amount of financial saving, but the health board was willing to destroy the goodwill of nursing staff that keep our NHS working.
I, as I'm sure many of you have, have received hundreds of messages in the last few weeks from the nurses, the patients and their families who would potentially have been affected by this. Those people working on the front line were saying—I'll quote one nurse—
'This will be the final nail in the coffin for nurses working for Betsi. We already work on understaffed wards, so we're lucky if we take a break, and this will mean lots of nurses moving away from the nursing profession and I will be one of them.'
Another nurse told me:
'This decrease in pay would involve me working an extra 6-hour shift a month, causing significant childcare issues and increased costs for this. I feel the people responsible want more and more out of an already-struggling workforce'.
And, of course, don't forget that over 1,000 nurses in Betsi Cadwaladr health board are aged 55 and over, and if you lose that group of experienced and dedicated professionals because of this misguided attempt—I have to say—to save a few pounds, then you will clearly reap what you sow. One in 10 nursing posts at Betsi are currently vacant, meaning that overstretched nurses and staff are already having to work extra hours anyway.
Now, this proposal has wrecked morale in a workforce already on the brink, and many nurses, as I quoted, have said that they will quit, some saying that they would retire early, others suggesting that they might even have to take sick leave if the scheme was introduced. Plaid Cymru and the unions have fought this tooth and nail. We collected, as a party, over 3,500 names on a petition. Unite as well collected the petition; collectively, I think it's over 8,000 names between us. And the union, of course, were even talking of balloting members on possible industrial action, even strike action. Now, what does that say when dedicated health professionals are saying 'enough is enough' and would consider the unthinkable and take strike action to safeguard their working conditions? And that, of course, was the context in which we, Plaid Cymru, brought this motion before the National Assembly today. A situation that nurses, midwives, healthcare support workers, patients and so many others of us find intolerable.
But, of course, things have changed. Late this afternoon, news broke that Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board have shelved the proposals in a clear victory to those of us who have been campaigning for this, and, of course, a huge relief to those who would have been so affected by these proposals. But there are so many questions, now, to be asked. How did it come to this? Why did the board not see the folly of its ways sooner? Plaid Cymru brought a debate on this very issue to this National Assembly a few weeks ago; the Minister could have stopped it then, but he chose to back the board. There are big questions about this whole process and how meaningful, really, was the consultation process. So, I look forward to hearing what the Minister has to say about this whole debacle and how a health board under his direct control was allowed to pursue these proposals in the first place. And I will be looking, Minister, in your response, for a guarantee that this will not be allowed to happen again. If you give us that, then I probably won't move this motion to a vote this afternoon, but, if you don't, then, clearly, we will need a statement from this National Assembly making it clear that this proposal was wholly unacceptable and that we will not tolerate such a proposal again in the future.
Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Nawr, yr wythnos diwethaf, wrth gwrs, penderfynodd Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr y byddent yn gorfodi nyrsys, bydwragedd a gweithwyr cymorth gofal iechyd i ymestyn eu sifftiau heb unrhyw dâl ychwanegol. Y cynllun oedd gorfodi egwyl di-dâl o 30 munud ychwanegol fesul shifft, er nad oes gan lawer o nyrsys amser i gael eu hegwyl fel y mae wrth gwrs. A thrwy gyfaddefiad y bwrdd iechyd ei hun, byddai wedi golygu bod nyrsys yn gweithio sifft ddi-dâl ychwanegol y mis i gyflawni eu horiau. Nawr, roedd y penderfyniad i fod i arbed tua £25,000 y mis. Gallech ddweud nad yw’n swm ansylweddol, ond wrth gwrs, o’i roi yn ei gyd-destun, mae'r bwrdd eisoes yn gwario dros £1 filiwn y mis ar nyrsys asiantaeth, ac felly mae'n swm cymharol fach o arbediad ariannol, ond roedd y bwrdd iechyd yn barod i ddinistrio ewyllys da staff nyrsio sy'n cadw ein GIG yn weithredol.
Nawr, rwyf fi, fel llawer ohonoch rwy'n siŵr, wedi cael cannoedd o negeseuon yn ystod yr wythnosau diwethaf gan y nyrsys, y cleifion a'u teuluoedd, a fyddai wedi cael eu heffeithio gan hyn o bosibl. Roedd y bobl a oedd yn gweithio ar y rheng flaen yn dweud—ac fe ddyfynnaf un nyrs—
Hon fydd yr hoelen olaf yn yr arch i nyrsys sy'n gweithio i Betsi Cadwaladr. Rydym eisoes yn gweithio ar wardiau heb staff digonol, felly rydym yn lwcus os cawn egwyl, a bydd hyn yn golygu bod llawer o nyrsys yn troi cefn ar y proffesiwn nyrsio, a byddaf i yn un ohonynt.
Dywedodd nyrs arall wrthyf,
Byddai'r gostyngiad hwn yn y cyflog yn golygu fy mod yn gweithio shifft 6 awr ychwanegol y mis, gan achosi problemau gofal plant sylweddol a chostau uwch am hynny. Rwy'n teimlo bod y bobl sy'n gyfrifol eisiau mwy a mwy allan o weithlu sydd eisoes yn ei chael hi'n anodd.
Ac wrth gwrs, peidiwch ag anghofio bod dros 1,000 o nyrsys ym mwrdd iechyd Betsi Cadwaladr yn 55 oed neu'n hŷn, ac os collwch y grŵp hwnnw o weithwyr proffesiynol profiadol ac ymroddedig oherwydd yr ymgais gyfeiliornus hon—mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud—i arbed ychydig bunnoedd, byddwch yn amlwg yn medi'r hyn rydych yn ei hau. Mae un o bob 10 swydd nyrsio yn Betsi Cadwaladr yn wag ar hyn o bryd, sy'n golygu bod nyrsys a staff sydd dan ormod o bwysau eisoes yn gorfod gweithio oriau ychwanegol beth bynnag.
Nawr, mae'r cynnig hwn wedi dryllio morâl mewn gweithlu sydd eisoes ar y dibyn, ac mae llawer o nyrsys, fel y dyfynnais, wedi dweud y byddant yn rhoi'r gorau iddi, gyda rhai'n dweud y byddent yn ymddeol yn gynnar, eraill yn awgrymu y gallai fod rhaid iddynt fynd ar absenoldeb salwch hyd yn oed pe bai’r cynllun yn cael ei weithredu. Mae Plaid Cymru a'r undebau wedi brwydro’n ffyrnig yn erbyn hyn. Fel plaid, casglasom dros 3,500 o enwau ar ddeiseb. Casglodd Unite enwau ar y ddeiseb hefyd; gyda'n gilydd, rwy'n credu ei fod dros 8,000 o enwau rhyngom. Ac roedd yr undeb, wrth gwrs, yn sôn am roi pleidlais i’r aelodau ar weithredu diwydiannol posibl, a streicio hyd yn oed. Nawr, beth y mae hynny'n ei ddweud pan fydd gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol ymroddedig yn dweud 'digon yw digon' ac yn ystyried yr hyn sydd y tu hwnt i amgyffred a streicio er mwyn diogelu eu hamodau gwaith? A dyna, wrth gwrs, oedd y cyd-destun y gwnaethom ni ym Mhlaid Cymru gyflwyno'r cynnig hwn gerbron y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol heddiw. Mae’n sefyllfa y mae nyrsys, bydwragedd, gweithwyr cymorth gofal iechyd, cleifion a chymaint o rai eraill ohonom yn ei chael yn annioddefol.
Ond wrth gwrs, mae pethau wedi newid. Yn hwyr y prynhawn yma, torrodd y newyddion fod Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr wedi rhoi’r gorau i’r argymhellion mewn buddugoliaeth amlwg i’r rhai ohonom sydd wedi bod yn ymgyrchu dros hyn, ac wrth gwrs, mae’n rhyddhad enfawr i’r rhai a fyddai wedi cael eu heffeithio gymaint gan yr argymhellion hyn. Ond mae cymaint o gwestiynau i'w gofyn yn awr. Sut y daeth hi i hyn? Pam na welodd y bwrdd ffolineb ei ffyrdd yn gynt? Daeth Plaid Cymru â dadl ar yr union fater hwn i'r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ychydig wythnosau yn ôl; gallai'r Gweinidog fod wedi ei atal bryd hynny, ond dewisodd gefnogi'r bwrdd. Mae cwestiynau mawr i’w gofyn am yr holl broses a pha mor ystyrlon, mewn gwirionedd, oedd y broses ymgynghori. Felly, edrychaf ymlaen at glywed beth sydd gan y Gweinidog i'w ddweud am yr holl fater a sut y caniatawyd i fwrdd iechyd o dan ei reolaeth uniongyrchol fynd ar drywydd yr argymhellion hyn yn y lle cyntaf. A byddaf yn edrych am sicrwydd yn eich ymateb, Weinidog, na chaniateir i hyn ddigwydd eto. Os rhowch hynny inni, mae'n debyg na fyddaf yn symud y cynnig hwn i bleidlais y prynhawn yma, ond os na wnewch hynny, yn amlwg, bydd angen datganiad gan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol hwn yn ei gwneud yn glir fod yr argymhelliad hwn yn gwbl annerbyniol ac na fyddwn yn goddef argymhelliad o'r fath eto yn y dyfodol.
Diolch. I have selected five amendments to the motion. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2, 3 and 4 will be deselected. I call on the Minister for Health and Social Services to formally move amendment 1, tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans.
Diolch. Rwyf wedi dewis pum gwelliant i'r cynnig. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, bydd gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 yn cael eu dad-ddethol. Galwaf ar y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol i gynnig gwelliant 1, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rebecca Evans, yn ffurfiol.
Gwelliant 1—Rebecca Evans
Dileu popeth a rhoi yn ei le:
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:
1. Yn gwerthfawrogi gweithlu’r GIG a’n trefniadau gweithio mewn partneriaeth gymdeithasol ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr (BIPBC) ac ym mhob bwrdd iechyd yng Nghymru.
2. Yn nodi bod BIPBC yn parhau i ymgysylltu â’r staff nyrsio a’u hundebau llafur ynglŷn â newidiadau i rotas nyrsio.
Amendment 1—Rebecca Evans
Delete all and replace with:
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
1. Values the NHS workforce and our social partnership working arrangements in Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board (BCUHB), and in all health boards across Wales.
2. Notes that BCUHB continues to engage with nursing staff and their trades unions on changes to nursing rotas.
Cynigiwyd gwelliant 1.
Amendment 1 moved.
Formally.
Yn ffurfiol.
Thank you. I call on Mark Isherwood to move amendments 2, 3 and 4, tabled in the name of Darren Millar. Mark.
Diolch yn fawr. Galwaf ar Mark Isherwood i gynnig gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar. Mark.
Gwelliant 2—Darren Millar
Cynnwys fel pwynt newydd ar ol pwynt 2 ac ailrifo yn unol â hynny:
Yn gresynu ymhellach bod nifer y diwrnodau gwaith a gollir oherwydd straen a materion yn ymwneud ag iechyd meddwl o fewn y bwrdd iechyd wedi cynyddu 20 y cant ers 2014.
Amendment 2—Darren Millar
Insert as new point after point 2 and renumber accordingly:
Further regrets that the number of working days lost due to stress and mental health related issues within the health board has increased by 20 per cent since 2014.
Gwelliant 3—Darren Millar
Ym mhwynt 3, dileu 'dros y pedair blynedd diwethaf' a rhoi 'am dros bedair blynedd' yn ei le.
Amendment 3—Darren Millar
In point 3, delete 'the past' and replace with 'more than'.
Gwelliant 4—Darren Millar
Cynnwys pwynt newydd ar ôl pwynt 3 ac ailrifo yn unol â hynny:
Yn gresynu bod y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol wedi methu â rhwystro'r penderfyniad hwn rhag cael ei wneud.
Amendment 4—Darren Millar
Insert as new point after point 3 and renumber accordingly:
Regrets that the Minister for Health and Social Services has failed to prevent this decision from being made.
Cynigiwyd gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4.
Amendments 2, 3 and 4 moved.
Yes. Well, we regret that the Minister for Health and Social Services has failed until now to prevent this decision from being made. We further regret that the number of working days lost due to stress and mental health-related issues in Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board has increased by 20 per cent since 2014. And we note that the health board has been in special measures for more than four years and is therefore under the direct control of the Minister. I move amendments 2, 3 and 4 accordingly.
Effective management understands that stress and burnout are primary causes of high staff absenteeism, as are the low morale and lack of motivation that occur when staff feel undervalued and under-appreciated. Yesterday, the health board's chief executive wrote to members regarding the changes to shifts for nurses and healthcare support workers, stating:
'Staff should not be paid for breaks other than in those circumstances set out.'
He added that the health board had consulted its staff and trade union partners over the proposed changes. However, the Unite union's regional co-ordinating officer stated yesterday that staff are angry and are willing to take industrial action, which he had never heard nurses say before.
Many nurses have written to me and the following quotes are theirs:
'If Betsi proceeds with their current plans they risk alienating further the staff they depend on. Also recruitment to fill vacant posts with are already difficult to fill and will be negatively affected.'
'I do not know how someone working fulltime with a family will be able to manage. I am seriously considering leaving my profession and I know of many others thinking of doing the same, which will not help the national shortage problem.'
'The change is reactive and has small chance of helping to redress the agency budget, and will have a knock on effect...on staff engagement...that will lead to greater difficulties in the long term'.
'In a 12 and a half hour shift...breaks are vital but due to the workload we wouldn't always take our breaks or they would be disturbed or shorter than needed. Making the breaks unpaid will not change this'.
'I am almost always the only Band 7 midwife on a night shift. This means that I am never able to take my break. I never claim time back...if this proposed change comes into force, I will be claiming every second extra that I work and I am sure that all of my colleagues will too'.
When I wrote to this health Minister with these concerns, he replied that neither he nor his officials can intervene in operational matters. Well, if special measures is to mean anything, the Welsh Government must take responsibility and act. Or has it now blinked? Because the local press announced just two hours ago that the health board has now, belatedly, u-turned.
Ie. Wel, rydym yn gresynu bod y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol wedi methu atal y penderfyniad hwn rhag cael ei wneud tan yn awr. Rydym yn gresynu hefyd fod nifer y diwrnodau gwaith a gollwyd oherwydd straen a materion yn ymwneud ag iechyd meddwl ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr wedi cynyddu 20 y cant ers 2014. Ac rydym yn nodi bod y bwrdd iechyd wedi bod o dan fesurau arbennig am fwy na phedair blynedd ac felly o dan reolaeth uniongyrchol y Gweinidog. Rwy'n cynnig gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 yn unol â hynny.
Mae rheolwyr effeithiol yn deall bod straen a gorweithio yn brif achosion lefelau uchel o absenoldeb staff, fel y mae morâl isel a’r diffyg cymhelliant sy'n digwydd pan fydd staff yn teimlo nad ydynt yn cael eu gwerthfawrogi ddigon. Ddoe, ysgrifennodd prif weithredwr y bwrdd iechyd at aelodau ynglŷn â newidiadau i sifftiau nyrsys a gweithwyr cymorth gofal iechyd, gan nodi,
Ni ddylid talu staff am gyfnodau egwyl heblaw yn yr amgylchiadau a nodwyd.
Ychwanegodd fod y bwrdd iechyd wedi ymgynghori â'i staff a'i bartneriaid undeb llafur ynghylch y newidiadau arfaethedig. Fodd bynnag, nododd swyddog cydlynu rhanbarthol undeb Unite ddoe fod staff yn ddig ac yn barod i gymryd camau diwydiannol, rhywbeth nad oedd erioed wedi clywed nyrsys yn ei ddweud o’r blaen.
Mae llawer o nyrsys wedi ysgrifennu ataf a daw'r dyfyniadau canlynol ganddynt hwy:
Os yw Betsi Cadwaladr yn bwrw ymlaen â'u cynlluniau presennol, maent mewn perygl o elyniaethu'r staff y maent yn dibynnu arnynt ymhellach. Hefyd mae recriwtio staff i lenwi swyddi gwag eisoes yn anodd a bydd hyn yn cael effaith negyddol.
Nid wyf yn gwybod sut y bydd rhywun sy'n gweithio amser llawn a chanddynt deulu yn gallu ymdopi. Rwyf o ddifrif yn ystyried gadael fy mhroffesiwn a gwn am lawer o bobl eraill sy'n ystyried gwneud yr un peth, ac ni fydd hynny'n helpu'r broblem genedlaethol o ran prinder staff.
Mae'r newid yn adweithiol a phrin yw'r gobaith y bydd yn helpu i unioni'r gyllideb asiantaeth, a bydd yn cael effaith ganlyniadol... ar ymgysylltiad â staff... a fydd yn arwain at fwy o anawsterau yn y tymor hir.
Mewn sifft 12 awr a hanner... mae cyfnodau egwyl yn hanfodol ond oherwydd llwyth gwaith ni fyddem bob amser yn cymryd ein hegwyl neu byddai rhywbeth yn tarfu arnynt neu byddent yn fyrrach na'r angen. Ni fydd gwneud y cyfnodau egwyl yn ddi-dâl yn newid hyn.
Bron bob amser, fi yw'r unig fydwraig Band 7 ar sifft nos. Golyga hyn nad wyf byth yn gallu cymryd fy nghyfnod egwyl. Nid wyf byth yn hawlio amser yn ôl... os daw'r newid arfaethedig hwn yn weithredol, byddaf yn hawlio pob eiliad ychwanegol y byddaf yn ei gweithio ac rwy'n siŵr y bydd pob un o fy nghydweithwyr yn gwneud hynny hefyd.
Pan ysgrifennais at y Gweinidog iechyd hwn gyda'r pryderon hyn, atebodd na all ef na'i swyddogion ymyrryd mewn materion gweithredol. Wel, os yw mesurau arbennig yn golygu unrhyw beth, rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru gymryd cyfrifoldeb a gweithredu. Neu a yw wedi camu nôl erbyn hyn? Oherwydd cyhoeddodd y wasg leol gwta ddwy awr yn ôl fod y bwrdd iechyd bellach, yn hwyr yn y dydd, wedi newid ei feddwl.
Thank you. I call on Mandy Jones to move amendment 5, tabled in the name of Caroline Jones.
Diolch. Galwaf ar Mandy Jones i gynnig gwelliant 5, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Caroline Jones.
Gwelliant 5—Caroline Jones
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
Yn galw ymhellach ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau nad yw Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr a byrddau iechyd eraill ledled Cymru yn ceisio osgoi Deddf Lefelau Staff Nyrsio (Cymru) 2016 drwy ailddosbarthu patrymau gwaith.
Amendment 5—Caroline Jones
Add as new point at end of motion:
Further calls on the Welsh Government to ensure that Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board and other health boards across Wales do not attempt to circumvent the Nurse Staffing Levels (Wales) Act 2016 by reclassifying working patterns.
Cynigiwyd gwelliant 5.
Amendment 5 moved.
Moved. Okay, a quick change of speech in a minute.
My group will be voting for this motion today, and the Brexit Party has also tabled an amendment in the name of Caroline Jones that calls on the Welsh Government to ensure that Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board and other health boards across Wales do not attempt to circumvent the Nurse Staffing Levels (Wales) Act 2016 by reclassifying working patterns.
Minister, I've had a number of constituents contact my office over your controversial changes to rotas. My office has had nurses in tears, saying that they can't afford to do the extra shifts, the extra journeys to work. It's the childcare costs; it's even down to laundry. I find it outrageous that these changes were supposed to be made when an NHS manager in north Wales is being paid at a rate of almost £2,000 per day and allowed to work from home in Marbella. In this day and age, nurses shouldn't be in a situation like that. It's a profession we should all be proud of.
I will be looking forward to what the Minister has to say now that the health board have actually turned around this in the last couple of hours this afternoon, and, hopefully, squashed this debacle. But it is now clear that the biggest danger to workers' rights is not Brexit, but this Labour Government, who have failed to prevent this decision from being made in the first place.
Cynigiwyd. Iawn, newid araith yn sydyn mewn munud.
Bydd fy ngrŵp yn pleidleisio o blaid y cynnig hwn heddiw, ac mae Plaid Brexit hefyd wedi cyflwyno gwelliant yn enw Caroline Jones sy'n galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau nad yw Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr a byrddau iechyd eraill ledled Cymru yn ceisio osgoi Deddf Lefelau Staff Nyrsio (Cymru) 2016 drwy ailddosbarthu patrymau gwaith.
Weinidog, rwyf wedi cael nifer o etholwyr yn cysylltu â fy swyddfa ynglŷn â'ch newidiadau dadleuol i rotas. Mae fy swyddfa wedi cael nyrsys yn eu dagrau, yn dweud na allant fforddio gwneud y sifftiau ychwanegol, y siwrneiau ychwanegol i'r gwaith. Costau gofal plant; golchi dillad hyd yn oed. Rwy'n ei hystyried yn warthus fod y newidiadau hyn i fod i gael eu gwneud pan fo un o reolwyr y GIG yng ngogledd Cymru yn cael ei dalu ar gyfradd o bron i £2,000 y dydd ac yn cael gweithio o'i gartref yn Marbella. Yn yr oes sydd ohoni, ni ddylai nyrsys fod mewn sefyllfa o'r fath. Mae'n broffesiwn y dylem i gyd fod yn falch ohono.
Byddaf yn edrych ymlaen at yr hyn sydd gan y Gweinidog i'w ddweud gan fod y bwrdd iechyd wedi newid ei feddwl ar hyn yn ystod yr ychydig oriau diwethaf y prynhawn yma, ac wedi cau'r caead ar y llanastr hwn, gobeithio. Ond mae'n amlwg bellach nad Brexit yw'r perygl mwyaf i hawliau gweithwyr, ond y Llywodraeth Lafur hon, sydd wedi methu atal y penderfyniad hwn rhag cael ei wneud yn y lle cyntaf.
Mi oedd bwriad Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr i gyflwyno'r rotas newydd yma wedi codi nyth cacwn anferth yn lleol, a hynny yn gwbl ddealladwy. A dwi'n falch iawn bod y newid meddwl yma wedi digwydd rŵan—ac rydym ni wedi clywed amdano fo dim ond rhyw awr yn ôl. Mi fyddai hyn, petai o wedi digwydd, wedi bod yn gam hynod niweidiol ac yn cymryd mantais o'r nyrsys sydd yn gweithio mor galed ac, yn aml iawn, yn mynd ymhell tu hwnt i ofynion eu swyddi nhw. Dwi yn falch bod y penderfyniad wedi ei wyrdroi, ond, o hyn ymlaen, dwi'n erfyn ar y bwrdd iechyd ac ar y Llywodraeth i roi'r parch sy'n ddyledus i'n nyrsys ni.
Mi ges i lythyr yr wythnos yma gan nyrs sy'n gweithio mewn ysbyty yn y gogledd. Ac, er bod y penderfyniad wedi ei roi o'r neilltu, mae'n werth ichi glywed beth oedd ganddi hi i'w ddweud: 'Rwyf wedi gweithio fel nyrs hyfforddedig am dros 28 mlynedd ac rwyf yn wfftio at y newidiadau i rotas nyrsys sydd i'w cyflwyno ar ôl y Nadolig. Rwy'n teimlo mor gryf am y mater, roedd yn rhaid i mi ysgrifennu atoch chi. Mae pawb yn gandryll gyda'r newidiadau sydd ar y gweill, a dwi ddim wedi siarad efo'r un nyrs sydd o blaid hyn. Mae morâl o fewn y byd nyrsio yn isel iawn yn barod. Ni fyddai'r un corff arall yn derbyn y newidiadau yma. Mi fyddai'n golygu colli ewyllys da—yn sicr ewyllys da y nyrsys yw calon gwasanaeth iechyd cyhoeddus.' Ar ddiwedd ei llythyr, mae hi'n gofyn beth fedrwn ni ei wneud i newid hyn. Wel, mi fydd y nyrs yma yn falch iawn o glywed fod yna newid wedi digwydd wrth i bobl godi llais, wrth i bobl ddod at ei gilydd i wrthwynebu ac ymgyrchu a chefnogi eu gilydd. Ac mae Plaid Cymru yn falch o fod wedi gweithio efo'r undebau er mwyn gwyrdroi'r penderfyniad yma, oedd yn un hurt o'r cychwyn cyntaf.
Dwi yn erfyn ar y Llywodraeth a'r bwrdd iechyd i ddysgu gwersi o'r saga yma—a saga ydy o. Mae'n rhaid, o hyn ymlaen, gweithio ochr yn ochr â'r undebau sy'n cynrychioli'r staff ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr. Mae'n rhaid ymgynghori mewn ffordd llawer iawn mwy ystyrlon pan fo yna newidiadau yn cael eu gwneud. Mae yna lawer iawn o waith pontio angen digwydd rŵan. Mae yna lawer o waith i'w wneud i adfer y berthynas, a llawer o waith i'w wneud i adfer yr ymddiriedaeth. Dyna sy'n fy mhoeni fi—bod yr holl bennod yma, dylid bod wedi ei hosgoi yn y man cyntaf, yn niweidiol i forâl y nyrsys ac i'r berthynas yna, ac mae'n rhaid gweithio yn galed iawn rŵan er mwyn adfer hynny. Mae'r nyrsys yma yn gweithio mor galed er lles eu cleifion, ac mae'n rhaid iddyn nhw gael eu parchu yn llawn o hyn allan.
Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board's intention to introduce these new rotas had caused huge controversy locally, and that is entirely understandable. And I'm extremely pleased that there has been a change of heart now—we heard of it only around an hour ago. Had this gone ahead, it would have been exceptionally damaging and would have taken advantage of those nurses who do work so very hard and very often go way beyond the requirements of their posts. I am pleased that the decision has been overturned, but, from here on in, I urge the health board and the Government to give due respect to our nurses.
I received a letter this week from a nurse working in a hospital in north Wales, and, although the decision has been overturned, it's worth you hearing what she had to say: 'I've worked as a trained nurse for over 28 years, and I am appalled by the changes to the nurse rotas that are to be introduced after Christmas. I feel so strongly that I did have to write to you about the issue. Everyone is furious with the changes in the pipeline and I haven't spoken to any nurse who is in favour of this. Morale within nursing is very low already. No other body would accept such changes, which would mean the loss of goodwill, and certainly the goodwill of nurses is at the very heart of public services.' And, at the end of her letter, she asks what can we do to overturn this decision. Well, this nurse will be exceptionally pleased to hear that there has been a change as people raised their voices, as people came together to oppose and to campaign and support each other. And Plaid Cymru is proud to have worked with the unions in order to overturn this decision, which was absurd from the very outset.
I do urge the Government and the health board to learn lessons from this debacle—and it is a debacle. We must, from here on in, work along with the unions representing the staff at Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board. Consultation must happen in a far more meaningful manner when changes are proposed. There is a great deal of bridge-mending work to be done now, and we must restore this relationship, and there's a huge amount of work to restore trust. And that's what worries me—that this whole chapter, which should have been avoided in the first instance, is damaging to the morale of nurses and to that relationship, and we must work very hard now in order to restore that situation. These nurses work so very hard for the benefit of their patients, and they must be fully respected from here on in.
Thank you to Plaid for bringing this motion. I'll be voting in favour of the motion, as I support our nurses, and I really don't think it's fair that their working conditions should worsen. The NHS has been built on the back of the nursing staff. Nursing is an incredibly pressurised, difficult job, and nurses need all the support that we can give them. And the proposals that came out of Betsi Cadwaladr relating to the rotas are, in my opinion, unbelievable. I'm glad that they've decided to shelve the proposals, but the thinking behind these proposals is worrying in itself. It would seem to be a counter-productive thing to do to change the working conditions of nurses to their detriment when the board is desperate to recruit nurses and other staff. And, despite Betsi shelving the proposals now, I'm sorry, I think the damage has already been done. Other Members have spoken about the reduction in, the worsening, morale, but it's going to make employment in Betsi Cadwaladr all the less attractive at a time when the board is in dire need of quality staff, and needs to make itself as attractive as possible to recruits.
We're all very familiar with the story of Betsi Cadwaladr and the numerous ways it has fallen short of what patients in north Wales are entitled to expect from their NHS. And, further, we're all aware of how the Welsh NHS under Labour has decayed and is increasingly failing the Welsh people. This erosion of the working conditions of nurses, or rather the now-shelved proposals, would not have been proposed were it not for Labour's failure to solve the problems at the health board over the years it has been in special measures, and under the direct management of this Labour Government. It could also be seen as a cynical attempt to get the public to blame the problems on the staff and the nurses by saying that they're having too many breaks. But it's not the fault of front-line staff, and I resent that every time a criticism of the Welsh NHS is made in this place, the Minister and Government run and hide behind hard-working NHS staff to deflect the criticism that's rightly placed at the Minister's door. No, it's the fault of the board and the Welsh Labour Government, who've mismanaged it.
Yesterday, Jeremy Corbyn warned the UK electorate that choosing the wrong Government would see an erosion of workers' rights and long-term damage to the NHS. Well, I have a message to English voters: if you want to see how modern Labour runs a health service, come and look at Betsi Cadwaladr in north Wales. Since Wales is the only UK nation whose NHS has proposed to worsen nurses' employment terms and conditions, at a health board that is being directly managed by a Labour Government, in the only UK nation run by Labour, I can only assume that Corbyn was warning people against voting for a Labour Government in Westminster. I would agree with him there.
But I have to say I am surprised at the acute case of amnesia that Plaid seem to be suffering, having proposed this motion—and I do agree with the motion and I appreciate them bringing it—because they've clearly forgotten that they have in the past undemocratically propped up the Labour establishment that's mismanaged the NHS, even though their own voters voted against that same party. If Plaid voters had wanted to help a Labour Government stay afloat, they would have voted Labour. After supporting a Labour Government for years while the NHS decayed, Plaid has to take its share of the blame for the scenario NHS workers and patients are now facing. Plaid have never been an opposition party, and Wales is suffering as a result. But I will support the motion because I support the nurses. I won't be supporting Labour's invitation to pat themselves on the back and allow them to bury their heads in the sand, and I will be supporting the Conservative and Brexit Party amendments. Thank you.
Diolch i Blaid Cymru am gyflwyno'r cynnig hwn. Byddaf yn pleidleisio o blaid y cynnig, gan fy mod yn cefnogi ein nyrsys, ac nid wyf yn credu ei bod yn deg i'w hamodau gwaith waethygu. Adeiladwyd y GIG ar gefn y staff nyrsio. Mae nyrsio'n waith caled ac anodd, ac mae nyrsys angen yr holl gymorth y gallwn ei roi iddynt. Ac yn fy marn i, mae'r argymhellion a ddaeth gan Betsi Cadwaladr ynglŷn â'r rotas yn anghredadwy. Rwy'n falch eu bod wedi penderfynu rhoi'r gorau i'r argymhellion, ond mae'r meddylfryd y tu ôl i'r argymhellion hyn yn destun pryder ynddo'i hun. Byddai'n ymddangos yn beth gwrthgynhyrchiol i'w wneud i newid amodau gwaith nyrsys mewn modd mor niweidiol iddynt pan fo'r bwrdd yn awyddus i recriwtio nyrsys a staff eraill. Ac er bod Betsi Cadwaladr wedi rhoi'r gorau i'r argymhellion bellach, mae'n ddrwg gennyf, ond rwy'n credu bod y difrod eisoes wedi'i wneud. Mae aelodau eraill wedi sôn am y gostyngiad yn y morâl, am ysbryd y staff yn gwaethygu, ond mae'n mynd i wneud cyflogaeth yn Betsi Cadwaladr yn llai atyniadol ar adeg pan fo taer angen staff o safon ar y bwrdd, ac adeg y mae angen iddo wneud ei hun mor atyniadol ag sy'n bosibl i recriwtiaid.
Rydym i gyd yn gyfarwydd iawn â hanes Betsi Cadwaladr a'r nifer o ffyrdd y mae wedi syrthio'n brin o'r hyn y mae gan gleifion yng ngogledd Cymru hawl i'w ddisgwyl gan eu GIG. Ac ymhellach, rydym i gyd yn ymwybodol o'r ffordd y mae GIG Cymru dan Lafur wedi pydru ac yn siomi pobl Cymru yn gynyddol. Ni fyddai'r erydiad hwn ar amodau gwaith nyrsys, neu yn hytrach yr argymhellion y rhoddwyd y gorau iddynt bellach, wedi'u cynnig oni bai am fethiant Llafur i ddatrys y problemau yn y bwrdd iechyd dros y blynyddoedd y bu o dan fesurau arbennig, ac o dan reolaeth uniongyrchol y Llywodraeth Lafur hon. Gellid ei hystyried hefyd yn ymgais sinigaidd i gael y cyhoedd i feio'r problemau ar y staff a'r nyrsys drwy ddweud eu bod yn cael gormod o amser egwyl. Ond nid bai staff rheng flaen yw hyn, ac rwy'n ddig, bob tro y bydd beirniadaeth o'r GIG yng Nghymru yn cael ei wneud yn y lle hwn, fod y Gweinidog a'r Llywodraeth yn rhedeg ac yn cuddio y tu ôl i staff gweithgar y GIG er mwyn osgoi'r feirniadaeth y gellir ei hanelu'n gywir at y Gweinidog. Na, mae'n fai ar y bwrdd a Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru, sydd wedi ei gamreoli.
Ddoe, rhybuddiodd Jeremy Corbyn etholwyr y DU y byddai dewis y Llywodraeth anghywir yn arwain at erydu hawliau gweithwyr a niwed hirdymor i'r GIG. Wel, mae gennyf neges i bleidleiswyr Lloegr: os ydych eisiau gweld sut y mae Llafur modern yn rhedeg gwasanaeth iechyd, dewch i edrych ar Betsi Cadwaladr yng ngogledd Cymru. Gan mai Cymru yw'r unig wlad yn y DU y mae ei GIG wedi argymell gwaethygu telerau ac amodau cyflogaeth nyrsys, mewn bwrdd iechyd sy'n cael ei reoli'n uniongyrchol gan Lywodraeth Lafur, yn yr unig wlad yn y DU sy'n cael ei rhedeg gan Lafur, ni allaf ond tybio bod Corbyn yn rhybuddio pobl yn erbyn pleidleisio dros Lywodraeth Lafur yn San Steffan. Buaswn yn cytuno ag ef yn hynny o beth.
Ond mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud fy mod yn synnu at yr achos difrifol o amnesia y mae Plaid Cymru i'w gweld yn ei ddioddef, o fod wedi cyflwyno'r cynnig hwn—ac rwy'n cytuno â'r cynnig ac yn gwerthfawrogi'r ffaith eu bod yn ei gyflwyno—oherwydd mae'n amlwg eu bod wedi anghofio iddynt gynnal y sefydliad Llafur yn annemocrataidd yn y gorffennol, y sefydliad Llafur a fu'n camreoli'r GIG, er bod eu pleidleiswyr eu hunain wedi pleidleisio yn erbyn yr un blaid. Pe bai pleidleiswyr Plaid Cymru wedi dymuno helpu Llywodraeth Lafur i aros ar ei thraed, byddent wedi pleidleisio dros Lafur. Ar ôl cefnogi Llywodraeth Lafur am flynyddoedd tra bod y GIG yn dirywio, rhaid i Blaid Cymru gymryd ei chyfran o'r bai am y sefyllfa y mae gweithwyr a chleifion y GIG yn ei hwynebu yn awr. Nid yw Plaid Cymru erioed wedi bod yn wrthblaid go iawn, ac mae Cymru'n dioddef o ganlyniad. Ond rwy'n cefnogi'r cynnig oherwydd fy mod yn cefnogi'r nyrsys. Ni fyddaf yn cefnogi gwahoddiad y Blaid Lafur i glodfori eu hunain a gadael iddynt gladdu eu pennau yn y tywod, a byddaf yn cefnogi gwelliannau'r Ceidwadwyr a Phlaid Brexit. Diolch.
Can I call on the Minister for Health and Social Services? Vaughan Gething.
A gaf fi alw ar y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol? Vaughan Gething.
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I thank Members for their varied contributions. I want to make clear at the outset that we won't support the Conservative or Brexit Party amendments. As I noted during the debate on this issue on 18 September, staffing rotas are an operational matter, as they should be, and the responsibility of individual organisations—in this case, obviously, Betsi Cadwaladr university health board. Organisations need to consider rotas in light of their statutory duties to ensure that they're designed to meet service delivery requirements and the needs of staff, including in particular their well-being, and that they place patient need at the centre of the management of the workforce.
The motion before us states the health board is under my direct control. As we've said many times before, the Welsh Government is not, under special measures, directly running the health board. The board and leadership team remain responsible for operational matters. This is a point that's been well made many times before, and I believe is well understood regardless of the drafting of the motion.
During the debate in September, I set out my expectations that the health board would work closely with staff and trade unions on the proposed changes, consider and respond appropriately to all comments and concerns, and to consider any equality impact and all feedback before any final decision is made. I note that a draft equality impact assessment has been provided during the month of October.
Over the nine weeks of consultation—we extended it following a request from trade union partners—there were 53 separate meetings held across the three localities. The response to the consultation, the equality impact assessment and the health board implementation plan were published last week, following discussion with the local partnership forum.
I am of course, however, aware that there were ongoing concerns from trade unions on behalf of their members who work in north Wales, and that Unison, the RCN and Unite wrote jointly to the health board. I wrote to the chair of the health board last week, seeking assurance that they were continuing to engage with their staff and their trade union representatives to resolve outstanding concerns and to keep me updated on progress.
In opposing the motion today, the Government has moved amendments that reiterate the value that we place on our nursing staff and social partnership working arrangements here in Wales, and my continuing expectation that the health board will engage with staff and their representatives to resolve concerns. We have a track record in Wales of finding a way to reach agreement on a way forward. I know that there is a further partnership forum meeting that has been arranged for Friday this week. I expect all parties to continue to work in good faith to resolve outstanding concerns, and, whilst discussions are ongoing, the health board have made clear today in response to the joint trade union letter that they will not progress the proposed changes. They state that they welcome the joint communication with Unison, the RCN and Unite, that they are absolutely committed to working together with their trade union partners, they will focus on partnership working and how to move forward together, and that to do so they will not progress the proposed changes, and that the meeting for this Friday will be entirely dedicated to this matter.
I'm genuinely proud of our partnership approach here in Wales. We know that it does not exist in every other part of the United Kingdom. The Members who refer to other ways of working across the UK should look at what our trade unions recognise and say about the way we undertake business here in Wales. So, I look forward to this issue being resolved in partnership, in line with my expectations, but much more importantly in line with our established way of working here in Wales.
Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Diolch i'r Aelodau am eu cyfraniadau amrywiol. Rwyf am ddweud yn glir ar y dechrau na fyddwn yn cefnogi gwelliannau'r Ceidwadwyr na Phlaid Brexit. Fel y nodais yn ystod y ddadl ar y mater hwn ar 18 Medi, mae rotas staffio yn fater gweithredol, fel y dylent fod, ac yn gyfrifoldeb i sefydliadau unigol—yn yr achos hwn, yn amlwg, Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr. Mae angen i sefydliadau ystyried rotas yng ngoleuni eu dyletswyddau statudol i sicrhau eu bod wedi'u cynllunio i fodloni gofynion darparu gwasanaeth ac anghenion staff, gan gynnwys eu lles yn arbennig, a'u bod yn rhoi anghenion cleifion wrth wraidd y broses o reoli'r gweithlu.
Mae'r cynnig sydd ger ein bron yn dweud bod y bwrdd iechyd o dan fy rheolaeth uniongyrchol i. Fel rydym wedi dweud droeon o'r blaen, o dan fesurau arbennig, nid yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn rhedeg y bwrdd iechyd yn uniongyrchol. Y bwrdd a'r tîm arweinyddiaeth sy'n gyfrifol am faterion gweithredol o hyd. Dyma bwynt sydd wedi'i wneud droeon o'r blaen, a chredaf ei fod yn gwbl ddealledig beth bynnag am y modd y drafftiwyd y cynnig.
Yn ystod y ddadl ym mis Medi, nodais fy nisgwyliadau y byddai'r bwrdd iechyd yn gweithio'n agos gyda staff ac undebau llafur ar y newidiadau arfaethedig, yn ystyried ac yn ymateb yn briodol i'r holl sylwadau a phryderon, ac yn ystyried unrhyw effaith ar gydraddoldeb a phob adborth cyn gwneud unrhyw benderfyniad terfynol. Sylwaf fod drafft o asesiad o'r effaith ar gydraddoldeb wedi'i ddarparu yn ystod mis Hydref.
Dros y naw wythnos o ymgynghori—fe wnaethom ei ymestyn yn dilyn cais gan bartneriaid undebau llafur—cynhaliwyd 53 o gyfarfodydd gwahanol ar draws y tair ardal. Cyhoeddwyd yr ymateb i'r ymgynghoriad, yr asesiad o'r effaith ar gydraddoldeb a chynllun gweithredu'r bwrdd iechyd yr wythnos diwethaf, yn dilyn trafodaeth gyda'r fforwm partneriaeth lleol.
Fodd bynnag, rwy'n ymwybodol, wrth gwrs, fod pryderon parhaus gan yr undebau llafur ar ran eu haelodau sy'n gweithio yng ngogledd Cymru, a bod Unsain, y Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol ac Unite wedi ysgrifennu ar y cyd at y bwrdd iechyd. Ysgrifennais at gadeirydd y bwrdd iechyd yr wythnos diwethaf i ofyn am sicrwydd eu bod yn parhau i ymgysylltu â'u staff a'u cynrychiolwyr undebau llafur i ddatrys pryderon a oedd heb eu datrys ac i roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i mi am unrhyw gynnydd.
Wrth wrthwynebu'r cynnig heddiw, mae'r Llywodraeth wedi cyflwyno gwelliannau sy'n ailadrodd y gwerth rydym yn ei roi ar ein staff nyrsio a threfniadau gweithio mewn partneriaeth gymdeithasol yma yng Nghymru, a fy nisgwyliad parhaus y bydd y bwrdd iechyd yn ymgysylltu â staff a'u cynrychiolwyr i ddatrys pryderon. Mae gennym hanes yng Nghymru o ddod o hyd i ffordd o ddod i gytundeb ar ffordd ymlaen. Gwn fod cyfarfod arall o'r fforwm partneriaeth wedi'i drefnu ar gyfer dydd Gwener yr wythnos hon. Rwy'n disgwyl i bob parti barhau i weithio'n ddidwyll i ddatrys unrhyw bryderon sy'n aros, ac er bod trafodaethau'n mynd rhagddynt, mae'r bwrdd iechyd wedi dweud yn glir heddiw mewn ymateb i'r llythyr ar y cyd gan yr undebau na fyddant yn bwrw ymlaen â'r newidiadau arfaethedig. Dywedant eu bod yn croesawu'r cyfathrebu ar y cyd ag Unsain, y Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol ac Unite, eu bod yn gwbl ymrwymedig i gydweithio â'u partneriaid undebau llafur, y byddant yn canolbwyntio ar weithio mewn partneriaeth a sut i symud ymlaen gyda'i gilydd, ac i wneud hynny ni fyddant yn bwrw ymlaen â'r newidiadau arfaethedig, a bydd y cyfarfod ddydd Gwener yn ymwneud yn gyfan gwbl â'r mater hwn.
Rwy'n wirioneddol falch o'n dull o weithio mewn partneriaeth yma yng Nghymru. Gwyddom nad yw'n bodoli mewn unrhyw ran arall o'r Deyrnas Unedig. Dylai'r Aelodau sy'n cyfeirio at ffyrdd eraill o weithio ledled y DU edrych ar yr hyn y mae ein hundebau llafur yn ei gydnabod ac yn ei ddweud am y ffordd rydym yn ymgymryd â gwaith yma yng Nghymru. Felly, edrychaf ymlaen at weld y mater hwn yn cael ei ddatrys mewn partneriaeth, yn unol â fy nisgwyliadau, ond yn llawer mwy pwysig, yn unol â'n ffordd sefydledig ni o weithio yma yng Nghymru.
Thank you. Can I call on Llyr Gruffydd to reply to the debate?
Diolch. A gaf fi alw ar Llyr Gruffydd i ymateb i'r ddadl?
Well, I didn't in any way there hear any regret or remorse about the fact that we got to where we got to on this issue. An apology might have been nice, yes, or at least some acknowledgement that it shouldn't have come to this—a second debate in this Chamber asking for that principle to establish that these proposals should not go forward. The Minister tells us it's an operational matter, but if it's wrong, then you should say so. That's what Unite the Union are saying, that's what the RCN are saying, that's what Plaid Cymru has been saying, that's what the nurses and the patients have been saying. And you're saying you don't want to get involved. There we are, that's your decision, but I think people will read into that what they wish. And then, in responding to some of the comments, you say that we should ask trade unions about how we operate here in Wales. Well, my previous comment stands, I think—the unions are telling you what they think about this proposal and they absolutely do not want it to happen.
Wel, ni chlywais unrhyw edifeirwch yno ynglŷn â'r ffaith ein bod wedi cyrraedd lle rydym wedi cyrraedd ar y mater hwn. Efallai y byddai ymddiheuriad wedi bod yn braf, neu o leiaf rhyw gydnabyddiaeth na ddylai fod wedi dod i hyn—ail ddadl yn y Siambr yn gofyn am yr egwyddor honno i gadarnhau na ddylai'r argymhellion hyn fynd yn eu blaenau. Mae'r Gweinidog yn dweud wrthym ei fod yn fater gweithredol, ond os yw'n anghywir, yna dylech ddweud hynny. Dyna beth y mae undeb Unite yn ei ddweud, dyna beth y mae'r Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol yn ei ddweud, dyna beth y mae Plaid Cymru wedi bod yn ei ddweud, dyna beth y mae'r nyrsys a'r cleifion wedi bod yn ei ddweud. Ac rydych chi'n dweud nad ydych chi am fod yn rhan o'r peth. Dyna ni, dyna'ch penderfyniad, ond rwy'n credu y bydd pobl yn dehongli hynny fel y dymunant. Ac yna, wrth ymateb i rai o'r sylwadau, rydych yn dweud y dylem ofyn i undebau llafur sut rydym yn gweithredu yma yng Nghymru. Wel, mae fy sylw blaenorol yn sefyll, rwy'n meddwl—mae'r undebau'n dweud wrthych beth maent yn ei feddwl o'r argymhelliad hwn ac yn bendant, nid ydynt am iddo ddigwydd.
Fyddwn ni ddim yn cefnogi gwelliant y Blaid Lafur heddiw oherwydd yr hyn mae'r gwelliant am ei wneud yw dileu ein cynnig ni yn ei gyfanrwydd a chyflwyno rhywbeth sy'n sôn am bwysigrwydd ymgysylltu. Ac mor bwysig ag yw e, wrth gwrs, yr holl reswm dŷn ni'n dod â'r cynnig hwn gerbron heddiw yw er mwyn sefydlu'r egwyddor bod yr hyn sy'n cael ei gynnig yn anghywir yn y lle cyntaf. Mi fyddwn ni'n cefnogi'r gwelliannau eraill i gyd, gyda llaw.
Mi oedd Siân Gwenllian yn berffaith iawn i ddweud bod yna wersi i'w dysgu fan hyn. Er bod y penderfyniad wedi cael ei wyrdroi am y tro—a dwi'n dweud 'am y tro' gan wybod efallai fydd yn rhaid inni ddod yn ôl fan hyn eto os oes bwriad i gyflwyno hyn ymhellach—ond mae'r difrod wedi cael ei wneud i raddau helaeth o safbwynt tanseilio hyder y gweithlu yng ngallu'r bwrdd i adnabod ac i wrando ar lais y gweithlu, ac yn sicr o safbwynt y Gweinidog i fod yn barod i gydnabod hynny hefyd. Mae'n sicr wedi effeithio ar y morâl, sy'n isel yn barod, a dwi wedi darllen peth o'r dystiolaeth ac mae eraill fan hyn wedi darllen hefyd dystiolaeth y bobl sy'n gweithio yn y rheng flaen, nifer ohonyn nhw ar eu gliniau o dan bwysau, ac, wrth gwrs, y bwrdd yn disgwyl rhagor a rhagor allan ohonyn nhw.
Does dim amheuaeth gen i fod y penderfyniad yma i dynnu'r cynnig yma yn ôl o safbwynt y rotas i nyrsys yn y gogledd yn fuddugoliaeth i Blaid Cymru, i'r undebau, i'r nyrsys a'r cleifion hefyd. Mae'n resyn gen i nad yw'r Gweinidog yn barod i dderbyn bod hwn wedi bod yn gam gwag. Dŷn ni ddim wedi cael sicrwydd mewn unrhyw ffordd na fydd hyn yn cael ei ganiatáu i ddod yn ôl gerbron yn y dyfodol. Felly, ar y sail hynny, mi fyddwn i'n gofyn i Aelodau i ni gael symud i bleidlais ar y yma er mwyn sefydlu'r egwyddor ein bod ni, fel Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, yn gwrthwynebu'r cynnig gafodd ei roi gerbron er mwyn sicrhau nad oes posibilrwydd y bydd hynny'n cael ei ystyried eto yn y dyfodol.
We won’t be supporting the Labour amendment today because what it does essentially is to delete our motion in its entirety and present something that talks about the importance of engagement. That is important of course, but the very reason we’re bringing this motion forward today is to establish the principle that what is being proposed here is wrong in the first instance. We will be supporting all of the other amendments, by the way.
Siân Gwenllian was entirely right in saying that there are lessons to be learnt here. Although the decision has been overturned for the time being—and I say 'for the time being' because we may have to return to this if there’s an intention to reintroduce this—the damage has been done to a great extent in terms of undermining the workforce's confidence in the ability of the board to recognise and to listen to the voice of the workforce, and certainly from the point of view of the Minister to recognise that fact. It has certainly impacted morale, which was already low, and I’ve read some of the evidence, and others will have also read evidence, from those working on the front line, many of them on their knees because of the pressures and stress upon them, and yet the board expects more and more from them.
I have no doubt that this decision to withdraw this proposal in terms of nurse rotas in north Wales is a victory for Plaid Cymru, for the unions, for the nurses and the patients, too. I regret the fact that the Minister isn’t willing to accept that this was a mistake. We’ve been given no assurances at all that this will not be allowed to be reintroduced in future, and therefore, on that basis, I would ask Members that we move to a vote on this issue in order to establish the principle that we, as a National Assembly, do oppose the proposal put forward in order to ensure that there’s no possibility of that being considered again in the future.
Thank you. The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Objection, therefore we proceed to a vote at voting time on this item. I am going to move to voting time unless three Members wish for the bell to be rung. No. Okay.
Diolch. Y cynnig yw derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Gwrthwynebiad, felly pleidleisiwn ar yr eitem hon yn y cyfnod pleidleisio. Symudaf ymlaen at y cyfnod pleidleisio oni bai fod tri Aelod yn dymuno i'r gloch gael ei chanu. Na. O'r gorau.
Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Voting deferred until voting time.
So, we're now into voting time. The first vote this afternoon is the vote on the Plaid Cymru debate on access to health services, and I call for a vote on the motion, tabled in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth. If the proposal is not agreed, we vote on the amendments tabled to the motion. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the motion 13, no abstentions, 32 against. Therefore, the motion is not agreed.
Felly, down at y cyfnod pleidleisio yn awr. Y bleidlais gyntaf y prynhawn yma yw'r bleidlais ar ddadl Plaid Cymru ar fynediad at wasanaethau iechyd, a galwaf am bleidlais ar y cynnig a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rhun ap Iorwerth. Os na dderbynnir y cynnig, pleidleisiwn ar y gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd i'r cynnig. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y cynnig 13, neb yn ymatal, 32 yn erbyn. Felly, gwrthodwyd y cynnig.
NDM7178 - Dadl Plaid Cymru - Cynnig heb ei ddiwygio: O blaid: 13, Yn erbyn: 32, Ymatal: 0
Gwrthodwyd y cynnig
NDM7178 - Plaid Cymru debate - Motion without amendment: For: 13, Against: 32, Abstain: 0
Motion has been rejected
We now move to vote on the amendments. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2,3 and 4 will be deselected. So, I call for a vote on amendment 1, tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amendment 25, no abstentions, 21 against. Therefore, amendment 1 is agreed. Amendments 2,3 and 4 are deselected.
Symudwn ymlaen yn awr i bleidleisio ar y gwelliannau. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 eu dad-ddethol. Felly, galwaf am bleidlais ar welliant 1 a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rebecca Evans. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y gwelliant 25, neb yn ymatal, 21 yn erbyn. Felly, derbynnir gwelliant 1. Caiff gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 eu dad-ddethol.
NDM7178 - Gwelliant 1: O blaid: 25, Yn erbyn: 21, Ymatal: 0
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant
NDM7178 - Amendment 1: For: 25, Against: 21, Abstain: 0
Amendment has been agreed
Cafodd gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 eu dad-ddethol.
Amendments 2, 3 and 4 deselected.
I call for a vote on amendment 5, tabled in the name of Darren Millar. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amendment 20, no abstentions, 26 against. Therefore, amendment 5 is not agreed.
Galwaf am bleidlais ar welliant 5 a gyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y gwelliant 20, neb yn ymatal, 26 yn erbyn. Felly, gwrthodwyd gwelliant 5.
NDM7178 - Gwelliant 5: O blaid: 20, Yn erbyn: 26, Ymatal: 0
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant
NDM7178 - Amendment 5: For: 20, Against: 26, Abstain: 0
Amendment has been rejected
I call for a vote on the motion as amended.
Galwaf am bleidlais ar y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd.
Cynnig NDM7178 fel y'i diwygiwyd:
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:
1. Yn nodi’r camau gweithredu cadarnhaol sydd ar y gweill drwy Fodel Gofal Sylfaenol Cymru i wella mynediad pobl, ddydd a nos, at y gweithiwr proffesiynol a’r gwasanaeth cywir ar gyfer eu hanghenion penodol.
2. Yn nodi’r gwelliant amlwg yn lefelau recriwtio meddygon i’r rhaglen hyfforddiant arbenigol ar gyfer meddygon teulu eleni.
Motion NDM7178 as amended:
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
1. Notes the positive action under way through the Primary Care Model for Wales to improve people’s access, day and night, to the right professional and service for their particular needs.
2. Notes the marked improvement in the recruitment of doctors to the GP speciality training programme this year.
Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amended motion 26, no abstentions, 20 against. Therefore, the amended motion is agreed.
Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd 26, neb yn ymatal, 20 yn erbyn. Felly, derbynnir y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd.
NDM7178 - Cynnig wedi'i ddiwygio: O blaid: 26, Yn erbyn: 20, Ymatal: 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd
NDM7178 - Motion as amended: For: 26, Against: 20, Abstain: 0
Motion as amended has been agreed
We now move to vote on the Plaid Cymru debate on Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board's new rotas, and I call for a vote on the motion, tabled in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth. Again, if the proposal is not agreed, we will vote on the amendments tabled to the motion. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the motion 13, no abstentions, 33 against. Therefore, the motion is not agreed.
Symudwn ymlaen yn awr i bleidleisio ar ddadl Plaid Cymru ar rotas newydd Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr, a galwaf am bleidlais ar y cynnig a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rhun ap Iorwerth. Unwaith eto, os na dderbynnir y cynnig, byddwn yn pleidleisio ar y gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd i'r cynnig. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y cynnig 13, neb yn ymatal, 33 yn erbyn. Felly, gwrthodwyd y cynnig.
NDM7179 - Dadl Plaid Cymru - Cynnig heb ei ddiwygio: O blaid: 13, Yn erbyn: 33, Ymatal: 0
Gwrthodwyd y cynnig
NDM7179 - Plaid Cymru debate - Motion without amendment: For: 13, Against: 33, Abstain: 0
Motion has been rejected
We move to vote on the amendments. Again, if amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2, 3 and 4 will be deselected. So, I call for a vote on amendment 1, tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amendment 26, no abstentions, 20 against. Therefore, amendment 1 is agreed, and amendments 2, 3 and 4 are deselected.
Symudwn ymlaen i bleidleisio ar y gwelliannau. Unwaith eto, os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 eu dad-ddethol. Felly, galwaf am bleidlais ar welliant 1 a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rebecca Evans. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y gwelliant 26, neb yn ymatal, 20 yn erbyn. Felly, derbynnir gwelliant 1, a chaiff gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 eu dad-ddethol.
NDM7179 - Gwelliant 1: O blaid: 26, Yn erbyn: 20, Ymatal: 0
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant
NDM7179 - Amendment 1: For: 26, Against: 20, Abstain: 0
Amendment has been agreed
Cafodd gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 eu dad-ddethol.
Amendments 2, 3 and 4 deselected.
I now call for a vote on amendment 5, tabled in the name of Caroline Jones. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amendment 20, no abstentions, 26 against. Therefore, amendment 5 is not agreed.
Galwaf yn awr am bleidlais ar welliant 5 a gyflwynwyd yn enw Caroline Jones. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y gwelliant 20, neb yn ymatal, 26 yn erbyn. Felly, gwrthodwyd gwelliant 5.
NDM7179 - Gwelliant 5: O blaid: 20, Yn erbyn: 26, Ymatal: 0
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant
NDM7179 - Amendment 5: For: 20, Against: 26, Abstain: 0
Amendment has been rejected
And I now call for a vote on the motion as amended.
A galwaf yn awr am bleidlais ar y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd.
Cynnig NDM7179 fel y'i diwygiwyd:
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:
1. Yn gwerthfawrogi gweithlu’r GIG a’n trefniadau gweithio mewn partneriaeth gymdeithasol ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr (BIPBC) ac ym mhob bwrdd iechyd yng Nghymru.
2. Yn nodi bod BIPBC yn parhau i ymgysylltu â’r staff nyrsio a’u hundebau llafur ynglŷn â newidiadau i rotas nyrsio.
Motion NDM7179 as amended:
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
1. Values the NHS workforce and our social partnership working arrangements in Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board (BCUHB), and in all health boards across Wales.
2. Notes that BCUHB continues to engage with nursing staff and their trades unions on changes to nursing rotas.
Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amended motion 26, six abstentions, 14 against. Therefore, the amended motion is agreed.
Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd 26, chwech yn ymatal, 14 yn erbyn. Felly, derbynnir y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd.
NDM7179 - Cynnig wedi'i ddiwygio: O blaid: 26, Yn erbyn: 14, Ymatal: 6
Derbyniwyd y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd
NDM7179 - Motion as amended: For: 26, Against: 14, Abstain: 6
Motion as amended has been agreed
We now move to the short debate. If Members are leaving the Chamber, can they do so quickly, quietly? I now move to the short debate, and I call on Paul Davies to speak on the topic that he has chosen. Paul.
Symudwn yn awr at y ddadl fer. Os oes Aelodau'n gadael y Siambr, a allant wneud hynny'n gyflym, yn dawel? Symudaf yn awr at y ddadl fer, a galwaf ar Paul Davies i siarad am y pwnc y mae wedi'i ddewis. Paul.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm delighted to use my short debate today to once again highlight the issue of the protection of war memorials across Wales. I'm deeply honoured to have the opportunity to once again raise the importance of protecting war memorials in Wales. As I've often said before, they are an essential part of the cultural and social fabric of Wales and Britain, and it's so important that these memorials are protected for years to come. Our future generations must remember and never forget those who died for our freedoms, and, by doing so, they can learn from previous conflicts so that they are never repeated again. It's therefore essential that governments at all levels do all that they can to safeguard these memorials, as sadly, in recent years, they have come under increasing threat.
Of course, this is not a party political campaign, as support for the protection of our war memorials has come from politicians at all levels and from all sides of the political spectrum, and I'm really heartened by the support shown by so many for this worthwhile cause. At Westminster, the then Member of Parliament for Liverpool Wavertree, Luciana Berger, said, and I quote,
'It is so important that we remember the enormous sacrifices made...to secure, for us all, the freedoms that we enjoy today. War memorials help us to remember the people who have given their lives. Memorials also help local communities and young people engage with local history.'
And at Holyrood, the Greenock and Inverclyde MSP, Stuart McMillan, said, and I quote again,
'We owe it to our servicemen and servicewomen to preserve the monuments that honour and remember the fallen.'
Calls from politicians of all parties, and from all parts of the UK, remind us that we are not alone in seeking to honour our fallen heroes, and it also reminds us of the enormous impact that those conflicts have had on the United Kingdom. And so we have an opportunity to lead by example and work together to ensure that Wales's war memorials are safeguarded for the future.
Now, according to the latest estimates from the War Memorials Trust, there are approximately 10,000 war memorials in the United Kingdom. Each war memorial is unique in its own right. Some are plaques, others gardens, others statues, and others even windows. But each of them carry an enormous significance to the families of those who fell in previous conflicts and to the local community. For some, the names listed on a memorial may be the only record of that individual's sacrifice. That makes it all the more disturbing as we continue to hear stories of memorials vandalised and desecrated across the country. Members may remember, back in March, when a swastika was spray-painted across the Connah's Quay and Shotton war memorial. The vandalism of that memorial shows the deepest disrespect for the 70 soldiers who lost their lives during the first world war.
And that's not the only case of vandalism in recent months. The Boer War memorial on Swansea seafront, opposite St Helen's rugby ground, was daubed with anarchy symbols and the words 'smash empire' and 'troops out'. And following a climate change protest in north Wales in September, a war memorial in Bangor was vandalised. All of these events happened in the last 12 months, proving that the protection of Wales's war memorials is as important and relevant as ever. And so, today, in this Chamber, I hope Members will join me in saying that we will remember those who fought and died for this country, and that we, as representatives of communities across Wales, will do all that we can to protect and preserve their sacrifice.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Pleser mawr yw defnyddio fy nadl fer heddiw i dynnu sylw unwaith eto at ddiogelu cofebion rhyfel ledled Cymru. Mae'n anrhydedd fawr i mi gael y cyfle i siarad unwaith eto am bwysigrwydd diogelu cofebion rhyfel yng Nghymru. Fel y dywedais droeon o'r blaen, maent yn rhan hanfodol o wead diwylliannol a chymdeithasol Cymru a Phrydain, ac mae mor bwysig ein bod yn diogelu'r cofebion hyn ar gyfer y dyfodol. Rhaid i genedlaethau'r dyfodol gofio a pheidio byth ag anghofio'r rhai a fu farw dros ein rhyddid, a thrwy wneud hynny, gallant ddysgu o ryfeloedd blaenorol fel na chânt eu hailadrodd byth eto. Felly, mae'n hanfodol i lywodraethau ar bob lefel wneud popeth yn eu gallu i ddiogelu'r cofebion hyn, gan eu bod, yn anffodus, wedi dod o dan fygythiad cynyddol dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf.
Wrth gwrs, nid ymgyrch plaid wleidyddol yw hon, gan fod cefnogaeth i ddiogelu ein cofebion rhyfel wedi dod gan wleidyddion ar bob lefel ac ar bob ochr i'r sbectrwm gwleidyddol, ac mae'r gefnogaeth a ddangoswyd gan gynifer i'r achos gwerthfawr hwn yn galondid mawr i mi. Yn San Steffan, dywedodd yr Aelod Seneddol dros Liverpool Wavertree ar y pryd, Luciana Berger, ac rwy'n dyfynnu,
Mae mor bwysig ein bod yn cofio'r aberth enfawr a wnaed... a diogelu, i bob un ohonom, y rhyddid rydym yn ei fwynhau heddiw. Mae cofebion rhyfel yn ein helpu i gofio am y bobl sydd wedi rhoi eu bywydau. Mae cofebion hefyd yn helpu cymunedau lleol a phobl ifanc i ymwneud â hanes lleol.
Ac yn Holyrood, dywedodd Aelod Greenock ac Inverclyde o Senedd yr Alban, Stuart McMillan, ac rwy'n dyfynnu eto,
Mae'n ddyletswydd arnom i'n milwyr i gadw'r cofebion sy'n anrhydeddu ac yn cofio'r rhai a fu farw.
Mae galwadau gan wleidyddion o bob plaid, ac o bob rhan o'r DU, yn ein hatgoffa nad ni yn unig sy'n ceisio anrhydeddu ein harwyr, ac maent hefyd yn ein hatgoffa o'r effaith enfawr y mae'r rhyfeloedd hynny wedi'i chael ar y Deyrnas Unedig. Ac felly cawn gyfle i arwain drwy esiampl a gweithio gyda'n gilydd i sicrhau bod cofebion rhyfel Cymru yn cael eu diogelu ar gyfer y dyfodol.
Nawr, yn ôl yr amcangyfrifon diweddaraf gan yr Ymddiriedolaeth Cofebion Rhyfel, ceir oddeutu 10,000 o gofebion rhyfel yn y Deyrnas Unedig. Mae pob cofeb ryfel yn unigryw yn ei hawl ei hun. Placiau yw rhai, gerddi yw rhai eraill, ac eraill yn gerfluniau, a cheir ffenestri hyd yn oed sy'n gofebion. Ond mae i bob un ohonynt arwyddocâd aruthrol i deuluoedd y rhai a syrthiodd mewn rhyfeloedd blaenorol ac i'r gymuned leol. I rai, efallai mai'r enwau a restrir ar gofeb fydd yr unig gofnod o aberth yr unigolyn hwnnw. Mae hynny'n peri cymaint mwy o bryder wrth inni barhau i glywed straeon am gofebion yn cael eu fandaleiddio a'u difrodi ar draws y wlad. Efallai y bydd yr Aelodau'n cofio, yn ôl ym mis Mawrth, pan gafodd swastica ei phaentio ar draws cofeb ryfel Cei Conna a Shotton. Mae fandaliaeth y gofeb honno'n dangos yr amarch dyfnaf tuag at y 70 milwr a gollodd eu bywydau yn ystod y rhyfel byd cyntaf.
Ac nid dyna'r unig achos o fandaliaeth yn ystod y misoedd diwethaf. Cafodd cofeb i'r Rhyfel yn erbyn y Boeriaid ar lan y môr yn Abertawe, gyferbyn â chae rygbi Sain Helen, ei baentio â symbolau anarchiaeth a'r geiriau 'smash empire' a 'troops out'. Ac yn dilyn protest newid hinsawdd yng ngogledd Cymru ym mis Medi, cafodd cofeb ryfel ym Mangor ei fandaleiddio. Digwyddodd yr holl ddigwyddiadau hyn dros y 12 mis diwethaf, gan brofi bod diogelu cofebion rhyfel Cymru yr un mor bwysig a pherthnasol ag erioed. Ac felly, heddiw, yn y Siambr hon, gobeithio y bydd yr Aelodau'n ymuno â mi i ddweud y byddwn yn cofio'r rhai a ymladdodd ac a fu farw dros y wlad hon, ac y byddwn ni, fel cynrychiolwyr cymunedau ledled Cymru, yn gwneud popeth a allwn i ddiogelu a chofio eu haberth.
Now, as the Minister will be aware, this is not the first time I've called on the Welsh Government to protect war memorials in Wales. Back in 2012, I put forward many of the same arguments that I will today to the then Minister for Housing, Regeneration and Heritage, Huw Lewis. I have to say, the Minister's response was sincere, and at that time he committed to bringing forward proposals that would strengthen the protection of war memorials across the country. Sadly, whilst his sentiments were very much welcome, in reality, very little was done. And so I say, with the greatest of respect to the Deputy Minister, that I hope that the Welsh Government will start to take this matter very seriously. The then Minister said, and I quote:
'In terms of a statutory duty to protect, we now have an open process in the development of the heritage Bill in order to take a good, long look at that, although we must remember the complexity of the patterns of responsibility that Paul has already outlined.'
However, the subsequent Historic Environment (Wales) Act 2016 did not include any measure specifically to protect war memorials. Therefore, it remains a great source of regret that, in Wales, the only legislation specific to war memorials is the War Memorials (Local Authorities' Powers) Act 1923, and subsequent amendments. And so, above all else today, I sincerely hope the Deputy Minister will commit to reviewing the legislation around the protection of war memorials, and work with stakeholders to tighten up that legislation, and bring it into the twenty-first century. I'm sure the Deputy Minister will agree with me that this is the very least that our fallen heroes deserve.
Therefore, the first commitment that I ask of the Welsh Government today is to begin to undertake a nationwide, up-to-date inventory of war memorials in Wales. I appreciate that this is no small feat, but it's so important that data is recorded that details the number and locations of all war memorials here in Wales. This could be done via local authorities, who may be better placed to identify and draw up a list of the war memorials in their respective areas. Of course, I accept that, in some cases, memorials may be on private land, or, for example, located at a school or church, and, as such, the responsibility for maintaining those memorials would lie with them. And even today, I received correspondence regarding the vulnerability of unofficial war memorials, and the need for greater protection for them. Therefore, it's crucial that the Welsh Government works with local authorities to ascertain where our war memorials are located, and under whose stewardship.
Now, I accept that, as part of Cymru'n Cofio Wales Remembers 1914-1918, the centenary programme of commemoration of the first world war, Cadw launched the grants for war memorials in Wales scheme. As I understand it, it was developed in partnership with the War Memorials Trust, and aimed to provide funding for the repair and conservation of memorials across Wales, and that initiative is very, very much welcome. But funding is only one piece of the puzzle, and so it's vital that, moving forward, the Welsh Government works with organisations like Cadw and the War Memorials Trust, and also local stakeholders and authorities, to ensure that those memorials most in need of repair are identified, and, indeed, prioritised.
Therefore, I'd like to once again put it to the Welsh Government that there should be a statutory duty on local authorities to protect our war memorials. As I said back in 2012, this would mean that the legal duty would require local authorities across Wales to ensure that war memorials in their areas are maintained. We know that the war memorials Act 1923 permits local authorities to use public money for the maintenance of memorials, but councils are under no obligation to do so. This would involve ensuring that each local authority, working closely with community groups and organisations, have a specific custodian whose job it would be to identify and preserve war memorials in their areas. There's also an opportunity with the role to include some outreach educational work, to promote war memorials in local areas, for example, by visiting schools, and talking to children and young people. The creation of this role would send a clear statement that the Welsh Government is honouring its heroes by breathing new life. into their stories and ensuring that our future generations fully understand their significance in our history. It's a great shame that there are a number of local authorities across Wales where there is not a point of contact for the local community to find out more about memorials in their areas, and that is something that desperately needs to change.
It's only through collaboration between the Welsh Government, local authorities and local communities that we can ensure that war memorials are being protected properly. Therefore, it's my view that a statutory duty on local authorities to provide a conservation custodian or war memorials officer would be the best way to establish a point of contact for the public, develop partnerships with local community groups and organisations, which have already established responsibility for some memorials in the area, and, indeed, to forge links with local schools to educate children and young people about the importance of war memorials and to tell the stories of the great sacrifices made for us.
Of course, some community groups already do a fantastic job of protecting war memorials and they should be encouraged to continue to do so. Those groups must be allowed to continue their work and we must support the efforts of community groups, which have established responsibility for memorials in Wales. However, a strong, working relationship with a point of contact at a local authority would strengthen the level of protection offered to their war memorials and may be a way of better safeguarding them at a time when thefts and damage to memorials are actually on the rise.
And my final proposals, Dirprwy Lywydd, is to call on the Welsh Government to ensure that local authorities have the very best resources possible to combat those who are targeting war memorials for scrap metal. It's beyond comprehension why someone would choose to steal a memorial, or parts of it, but, sadly, this does happen. And we must remember that these are not victimless crimes at all—they are crimes against society and have far-reaching consequences for our communities. Therefore, I'm pleased that in 2013, the UK Government brought in the Scrap Metal Dealers Act 2013 to strengthen the regulations around scrap metal dealers and to tighten up the current regime.
The legislation now requires all individuals and businesses to complete an enhanced application process to obtain a scrap metal dealer licence, giving local authorities the power to reject unsuitable applicants and revoke licences. That legislation has had a huge impact, in fact, and it's estimated that metal theft had fallen by more than three-quarters in the first four years of the legislation coming into existence. However, there's always more that can be done. I'm sure that the Deputy Minister is already aware of the state-of-the-art SmartWater signature that is visible only under ultraviolet light, which will help police to trace stolen memorials. Once applied, SmartWater is virtually impossible to remove and can withstand burning, sandblasting and long-term exposure to UV. This is one way of protecting war memorials, and I hope that the Welsh Government would agree to developing a wider partnership with the SmartWater Foundation and the War Memorials Trust to use this powerful deterrent and ensure that our local authorities have access to it.
In closing, we have an opportunity to extend our scope of remembrance and show our armed forces community our utmost respect by pledging to protect war memorials in Wales. I for one am proud of Wales's military heritage and I believe that the Welsh Government should do everything within its power to work with others to help protect and promote our war memorials. This is about honouring our heroes and providing opportunities for our children and young people to learn more about them and the ultimate price they paid for our freedom. Therefore, I do call on the Welsh Government to genuinely commit to doing more to protect war memorials in Wales. We owe our fallen heroes nothing less.
Nawr, fel y bydd y Gweinidog yn gwybod, nid dyma'r tro cyntaf i mi alw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i ddiogelu cofebion rhyfel yng Nghymru. Yn ôl yn 2012, cyflwynais nifer o'r un dadleuon ag a gyflwynaf heddiw i Huw Lewis, y Gweinidog Tai, Adfywio a Threftadaeth ar y pryd. Rhaid imi ddweud, roedd ymateb y Gweinidog yn ddiffuant, ac ar y pryd ymrwymodd i gyflwyno cynigion a fyddai'n cryfhau diogelwch i gofebion rhyfel ledled y wlad. Yn anffodus, er mor galonogol oedd ei eiriau, ychydig iawn a wnaethpwyd mewn gwirionedd. Ac felly rwy'n dweud, gyda'r parch mwyaf i'r Dirprwy Weinidog, fy mod yn gobeithio y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn dechrau bod o ddifrif ynglŷn â'r mater hwn. Dywedodd y Gweinidog ar y pryd, ac rwy'n dyfynnu:
'O ran dyletswydd statudol i warchod, mae gennym bellach broses agored wrth ddatblygu’r Bil treftadaeth er mwyn edrych yn drylwyr ar hynny, er bod yn rhaid cofio cymhlethdod y patrymau cyfrifoldeb a amlinellwyd eisoes gan Paul.'
Fodd bynnag, nid oedd Deddf yr Amgylchedd Hanesyddol (Cymru) 2016 a ddilynodd yn cynnwys unrhyw fesur penodol i ddiogelu cofebion rhyfel. Felly, mae'n destun gofid o hyd mai'r unig ddeddfwriaeth sy'n benodol i gofebion rhyfel yng Nghymru yw Deddf Cofebion Rhyfel (Pwerau Awdurdodau Lleol) 1923, a gwelliannau dilynol. Ac felly, yn anad dim arall heddiw, rwy'n mawr obeithio y bydd y Dirprwy Weinidog yn ymrwymo i adolygu'r ddeddfwriaeth ynghylch diogelu cofebion rhyfel, a gweithio gyda rhanddeiliaid i dynhau'r ddeddfwriaeth honno, a dod â hi i mewn i'r unfed ganrif ar hugain. Rwy'n siŵr y bydd y Dirprwy Weinidog yn cytuno â mi mai dyma'r peth lleiaf y mae ein harwyr marw yn ei haeddu.
Felly, yr ymrwymiad cyntaf y gofynnaf i Lywodraeth Cymru ei wneud heddiw yw dechrau cynnal rhestr genedlaethol, gyfoes o gofebion rhyfel yng Nghymru. Rwy'n sylweddoli ei bod yn dipyn o gamp, ond mae'n bwysig iawn fod data'n cael ei gofnodi sy'n nodi nifer a lleoliad yr holl gofebion rhyfel yma yng Nghymru. Gellid gwneud hyn drwy awdurdodau lleol, a allai fod mewn sefyllfa well i nodi a llunio rhestr o'r cofebion rhyfel yn eu hardaloedd. Wrth gwrs, rwy'n derbyn, mewn rhai achosion, y gall cofebion fod ar dir preifat, neu, er enghraifft, wedi'u lleoli mewn ysgol neu eglwys, ac fel y cyfryw, byddai'r cyfrifoldeb dros gynnal y cofebion hynny'n disgyn arnynt hwy. A hyd yn oed heddiw, cefais ohebiaeth ynghylch pa mor agored i niwed oedd cofebion rhyfel answyddogol, a'r angen am fwy o ddiogelwch iddynt. Felly, mae'n hanfodol fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithio gydag awdurdodau lleol i ganfod ble mae ein cofebion rhyfel, ac o dan stiwardiaeth pwy.
Nawr, rwy'n derbyn, fel rhan o Cymru'n Cofio 1914-1918, rhaglen goffáu canmlwyddiant y rhyfel byd cyntaf, fod Cadw wedi lansio'r cynllun grantiau ar gyfer cofebion rhyfel yng Nghymru. Yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf, fe'i datblygwyd mewn partneriaeth â'r Ymddiriedolaeth Cofebion Rhyfel, a'i nod oedd darparu cyllid ar gyfer atgyweirio a chynnal cofebion ar draws Cymru, ac mae'r fenter honno i'w chroesawu'n fawr iawn. Ond dim ond un darn o'r pos yw ariannu, ac felly mae'n hanfodol fod Llywodraeth Cymru, wrth symud ymlaen, yn gweithio gyda sefydliadau fel Cadw a'r Ymddiriedolaeth Cofebion Rhyfel, a rhanddeiliaid ac awdurdodau lleol hefyd, i sicrhau bod y cofebion sydd fwyaf o angen eu hatgyweirio yn cael eu nodi, a'u blaenoriaethu yn wir.
Felly, hoffwn ddweud unwaith eto wrth Lywodraeth Cymru y dylai fod dyletswydd statudol ar awdurdodau lleol i ddiogelu ein cofebion rhyfel. Fel y dywedais yn ôl yn 2012, byddai hyn yn golygu y byddai'r ddyletswydd gyfreithiol yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i awdurdodau lleol ledled Cymru sicrhau bod cofebion rhyfel yn eu hardaloedd yn cael eu cynnal. Gwyddom fod Deddf cofebion rhyfel 1923 yn caniatáu i awdurdodau lleol ddefnyddio arian cyhoeddus i gynnal cofebion, ond nid oes unrhyw reidrwydd ar gynghorau i wneud hynny. Byddai hyn yn golygu sicrhau bod gan bob awdurdod lleol, gan weithio'n agos gyda grwpiau a sefydliadau cymunedol, geidwad penodol sy'n gyfrifol am nodi a chynnal cofebion rhyfel yn eu hardaloedd. Mae cyfle hefyd gyda'r rôl i gynnwys rhywfaint o waith addysgu allanol, i hyrwyddo cofebion rhyfel mewn ardaloedd lleol, er enghraifft drwy ymweld ag ysgolion, a siarad â phlant a phobl ifanc. Byddai creu'r rôl hon yn anfon neges glir fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn anrhydeddu ei harwyr drwy anadlu bywyd newydd i mewn i'w straeon a sicrhau bod cenedlaethau'r dyfodol yn deall eu harwyddocâd yn ein hanes yn llawn. Mae'n drueni mawr fod nifer o awdurdodau lleol ledled Cymru heb bwynt cyswllt i'r gymuned leol allu dysgu mwy am gofebion yn eu hardaloedd, ac mae hynny'n rhywbeth y mae taer angen ei newid.
Drwy gydweithio rhwng Llywodraeth Cymru, awdurdodau lleol a chymunedau lleol yn unig y gallwn sicrhau bod cofebion rhyfel yn cael eu gwarchod yn iawn. Felly, yn fy marn i, cael dyletswydd statudol i awdurdodau lleol ddarparu ceidwad cadwraeth neu swyddog cofebion rhyfel fyddai'r ffordd orau o sefydlu pwynt cyswllt ar gyfer y cyhoedd, datblygu partneriaethau gyda grwpiau a sefydliadau cymunedol lleol, sydd â chyfrifoldeb wedi'i sefydlu eisoes dros rai cofebion yn yr ardal, ac yn wir, creu cysylltiadau gydag ysgolion lleol i addysgu plant a phobl ifanc am bwysigrwydd cofebion rhyfel ac i adrodd hanesion am yr aberth mawr a wnaed drosom.
Wrth gwrs, mae rhai grwpiau cymunedol eisoes yn gwneud gwaith gwych yn diogelu cofebion rhyfel a dylid eu hannog i barhau i wneud hynny. Rhaid caniatáu i'r grwpiau hynny barhau â'u gwaith a rhaid inni gefnogi ymdrechion grwpiau cymunedol, sydd â chyfrifoldeb wedi'i sefydlu dros gofebion yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, byddai perthynas waith gref â phwynt cyswllt mewn awdurdod lleol yn cryfhau lefel y diogelwch a gynigir i'w cofebion rhyfel a gallai fod yn ffordd o'u diogelu'n well ar adeg pan fo achosion o ddwyn a difrodi cofebion ar gynnydd mewn gwirionedd.
Fy argymhellion terfynol, Ddirprwy Lywydd, yw galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau bod gan awdurdodau lleol yr adnoddau gorau posibl i frwydro yn erbyn y rheini sy'n targedu cofebion rhyfel ar gyfer metel sgrap. Mae y tu hwnt i ddeall pam y byddai rhywun yn dewis dwyn cofeb, neu rannau ohoni, ond yn anffodus, mae'n digwydd. A rhaid inni gofio nad yw'r rhain yn droseddau heb ddioddefwyr o gwbl—maent yn droseddau yn erbyn cymdeithas ac mae iddynt ganlyniadau pellgyrhaeddol i'n cymunedau. Felly, rwy'n falch fod Llywodraeth y DU, yn 2013, wedi cyflwyno Deddf Delwyr Metel Sgrap 2013 i gryfhau'r rheoliadau mewn perthynas â delwyr metel sgrap ac i dynhau'r drefn bresennol.
Mae'r ddeddfwriaeth bellach yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i bob unigolyn a busnes gwblhau proses ymgeisio fanwl i gael trwydded deliwr metel sgrap, gan roi pŵer i awdurdodau lleol wrthod ymgeiswyr anaddas a dirymu trwyddedau. Mae'r ddeddfwriaeth honno wedi cael effaith enfawr mewn gwirionedd, ac amcangyfrifir bod lefelau dwyn metel wedi disgyn fwy na thri chwarter yn y pedair blynedd gyntaf ers i'r ddeddfwriaeth ddod i fodolaeth. Fodd bynnag, mae mwy y gellir ei wneud bob amser. Rwy'n siŵr bod y Dirprwy Weinidog eisoes yn ymwybodol o'r llofnod SmartWater newydd sy'n weladwy o dan olau uwchfioled yn unig, dyfais a all helpu'r heddlu i olrhain cofebion sydd wedi'u dwyn. Ar ôl ei osod, mae hi bron iawn yn amhosibl dileu SmartWater a gall wrthsefyll llosgi, chwythu tywod ac amlygiad hirdymor i UV. Dyma un ffordd o ddiogelu cofebion rhyfel, a gobeithiaf y byddai Llywodraeth Cymru yn cytuno i ddatblygu partneriaeth ehangach â'r SmartWater Foundation a'r Ymddiriedolaeth Cofebion Rhyfel i ddefnyddio'r arf ataliol grymus hwn a sicrhau bod ein hawdurdodau lleol yn gallu gwneud defnydd ohono.
Wrth gloi, mae gennym gyfle i ymestyn ein gallu i gofio a dangos ein parch mwyaf i gymuned ein lluoedd arfog drwy addo diogelu cofebion rhyfel yng Nghymru. Yn bersonol, rwy'n ymfalchïo yn nhreftadaeth filwrol Cymru a chredaf y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru wneud popeth yn ei gallu i weithio gydag eraill i helpu i ddiogelu a hyrwyddo ein cofebion rhyfel. Mae hyn yn ymwneud ag anrhydeddu ein harwyr a rhoi cyfleoedd i'n plant a'n pobl ifanc ddysgu mwy amdanynt a'r pris eithaf a dalwyd ganddynt am ein rhyddid. Felly, rwy'n galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i ymrwymo o ddifrif i wneud mwy i ddiogelu cofebion rhyfel yng Nghymru. Mae dyletswydd arnom i'n harwyr a roddodd eu bywydau i wneud hynny, a dim llai.
Thank you. I'm going to call on the Deputy Minister for Culture, Sport and Tourism to reply to the debate—Dafydd Elis-Thomas.
Diolch. Rwy'n mynd i alw ar y Dirprwy Weinidog Diwylliant, Chwaraeon a Thwristiaeth i ymateb i'r ddadl—Dafydd Elis-Thomas.
Diolch yn fawr am y cyfle yma i ymateb i'r ddadl, a diolch i Paul Davies am ddewis y pwnc amserol yma i'w drafod heddiw.
Mae Comisiwn y Cynulliad, wrth gwrs, yn gyfrifol am gofeb nodedig iawn sydd o flaen y Senedd hon, ac yn fan yno y byddaf i yn y gwasanaeth arferol gyda'r llynges fasnach, oherwydd rydw i'n parhau i werthfawrogi'r swydd anrhydeddus o fod yn llywydd anrhydeddus i'r llynges fasnach, fel cydnabyddiaeth o'r berthynas arbennig sydd rhyngom ni yma yn y Senedd hon a'n hetifeddiaeth forol.
Thank you very much for this opportunity to respond to the debate, and thank you to Paul Davies for choosing this very timely subject to discuss here.
The Assembly Commission, of course, is responsible for a notable memorial before this Senedd, and it's in that place that I'll be attending the merchant navy's service, because I continue to appreciate my post of being the honorary president of the merchant navy, as a recognition of the special relationship between us in this Senedd and our maritime heritage.
Mae gyda ni gofebau rhyfel, cymaint â 5,000, o bosib, ar draws Cymru, ac maen nhw ar wahanol ffurfiau—yn blaciau neu'n senotaffau bychain. Mae yna barciau, mae yna ysbytai, a neuaddau coffa hefyd, sydd yn rhan o'r hyn a fuddsoddwyd gan gymunedau yng Nghymru, gyda chefnogaeth gyhoeddus, i gofio'r rhai a gollwyd o'r cymunedau hynny yn y rhyfel byd cyntaf a’r ail ryfel byd, a pheidied ag anghofio, wrth gwrs, y rhyfeloedd ers hynny, nac, yn wir, y rhyfel cartref yn Sbaen.
Mae coffáu'r digwyddiadau yma'n ddyletswydd arnon ni i gyd. Rydw i wedi gwrando'n ofalus ar beth a gyflwynwyd gan Paul heddiw, ac wedi darllen beth y dywedodd o o'r blaen, ac rydw i'n canmol ei ddygnwch o yn parhau i ddilyn y drafodaeth yma. Felly, wrth ymateb, rwyf am ddweud y gwnawn ni edrych o'r newydd ar ein perthynas â'r Ymddiriedolaeth Cofebau Rhyfel—y War Memorials Trust. Dwi yn sylwi bod Historic England, y corff hanesyddol sy'n cyfateb i Cadw yn Lloegr, ac, yn wir, Historic Environment Scotland, mewn perthynas uniongyrchol gyda'r ymddiriedolaeth, ac efallai y byddai o'n briodol i ni gryfhau ein perthynas â'r ymddiriedolaeth, gan ein bod ni wedi cydweithio gyda nhw yn y cynllun grantiau y cyfeiriodd Paul ato fo.
Mae cymunedau lleol, wrth gwrs, yn cyfrannu, yn enwedig drwy'r Lleng Brydeinig Frenhinol a'r gwirfoddolwyr i'r gwaith hanfodol o ofalu am gofebau rhyfel, ac rydyn ni yn gweld ei bod hi'n bwysig ein bod ni, fel Llywodraeth, nid jest yn cydnabod ond yn cefnogi'r gweithgareddau yma. Mae'n deg imi ddweud bod Cadw wedi gweithredu yn y maes yma o safbwynt rhestru cofebau. Dwi'n derbyn nad ydy deddfwriaeth restru'n golygu bod yna gadwraeth ddiogel o angenrheidrwydd, ond mae nifer y cofebau wedi cynyddu, ac mae Llywodraeth Cymru, drwy'r rhaglen Cymru'n Cofio, y cyfeiriodd Paul ati, wedi bod yn dynodi canmlwyddiant y rhyfel byd cyntaf, ac fe baratôdd Cadw ganllawiau ymarferol i gymunedau sy'n dymuno gwarchod a gofalu am eu cofebau rhyfel. Ac mae yna dros 40 o grantiau unigol, cyfanswm o £230,000, ar gyfer gwarchod pob math o gofebau wedi dod allan o'r ffynhonnell yna. Un ohonyn nhw ydy'r gofeb arall—byddaf i yno ddydd Sul, gobeithio—sef cofeb rhyfel cenedlaethol Cymru ym Mharc Cathays.
Felly, rydyn ni, fel Llywodraeth wedi dangos bod gyda ni ewyllys tuag at goffáu yng Nghymru, ond rydyn ni hefyd wedi cefnogi cofebau o bwys cenedlaethol y tu allan i Gymru, gyda gwariant o £25,000 yn y gofeb Gymreig yn Fflandrys, a'r cymorth yn ogystal i'r gofeb yng Nghoedwig Mametz, yng ngogledd Ffrainc—gwariant o ryw £7,000 yn y fan honno. Ond gan fod y cyfnod penodol o ddathlu'r rhyfel mawr, y rhyfel cyntaf, yn dirwyn i ben, a gan ein bod ni wedi cydweithio gyda'r ymddiriedolaeth, y War Memorials Trust yn y gorffennol, fe wnaf i ymrwymiad fy mod i'n mynd i ystyried ymhellach sut y gallwn ni gryfhau ein gweithredu fel Llywodraeth yn y ffordd y mae Paul wedi'i awgrymu. Fyddai fo ddim yn disgwyl imi wneud ymrwymiad cryfach na hynny heddiw, ond mae gen i ddiddordeb fy hun, nid yn unig o safbwynt y Gweinidog sydd â chyfrifoldeb yn ateb heddiw, ond hefyd o ran y pwysigrwydd o gofio, ac o gofio'n briodol. A dwi'n gwerthfawrogi'n fawr y cyfraniadau sydd wedi cael eu gwneud yn y gwahanol gymunedau ar hyd y blynyddoedd i ddathlu, i gofio ac i gydnabod, ac i alaru, wrth gwrs. Mae'r pethau yma i gyd yn mynd gyda'i gilydd.
We have as many as 5,000 war memorials in Wales, and they take different forms—be they plaques or small cenotaphs. There are parks, there are hospitals and village halls that are also memorials and are part of what was invested by Welsh communities, with public support, to remember those lost from those communities in the first world war and the second world war, without forgetting, of course, the wars since then, or, indeed, the civil war in Spain.
Remembering these events is a duty on all of us. I have listened carefully to what was said by Paul today, and I have read what he has said before, and I praise his diligence in continuing to pursue this debate. Therefore, in responding, I want to say that we will look anew at our relationship with the War Memorials Trust. I do note that Historic England, the body that corresponds to Cadw in England, and, indeed, Historic Environment Scotland, have a direct relationship with the War Memorials Trust, and perhaps it would be appropriate for us too to strengthen our relationship with that trust, as we have collaborated with them in the grant scheme that Paul referred to.
Local communities, of course, do contribute, particularly in terms of the Royal British Region and volunteers to that vital work of looking after war memorials, and we do see the importance of us, as a Government, not just acknowledging that work but supporting these activities. It’s fair for me to say that Cadw has taken action in this field from the point of view of listing memorials. I accept that listing legislation does not mean that there is safety guaranteed for these memorials, but the number of memorials has increased, and the Welsh Government, through the Cymru’n Cofio Wales Remembers programme that Paul referred to, has been designating or noting the centenary of the first world war, and Cadw prepared practical guidance for communities wishing to conserve and care for their war memorials. And over 40 individual grants, totalling almost £230,000, have been awarded for conservation of all types of memorials, and that has now been allocated from that source. One of those is the other memorial that I will be visiting on Sunday, hopefully, namely the national war memorial in Cathays Park.
So, we as, a Government, have shown that we do have the will to care for memorials in Wales but we've also supported memorials of national importance outside of Wales, with expenditure of £25,000 towards the Welsh memorial in Flanders, and also support for the memorial in Mametz Wood, in northern France—expenditure of around £7,000 there. But as this specific period of remembering the first world war is coming to an end, and as we have collaborated with the War Memorials Trust in the past, I will commit that I am going to consider further how we can strengthen our action as a Government in the way that Paul has suggested. He wouldn't expect me to make a stronger commitment than that today, but I do have my own interest, not just from the point of view being the Minister with responsibility in responding today, but also as regards the importance of remembering and remembering appropriately. I appreciate very much the contributions that have been made in the different communities throughout the years to celebrate, to remember and to acknowledge, and to grieve of course. All of these aspects come together.
Will you take an intervention?
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?
Yes, of course, Joyce.
Gwnaf, wrth gwrs, Joyce.
Thank you very much. I know that this is an area that you feel very strongly about, so I just wonder whether you'll join with me in congratulating Patti Flynn, who saw, just last week, a plaque awarded to remember the members of the black and minority ethnic community who fought for us in the war. That plaque was put up at the Welsh National War Memorial in Cardiff last Saturday. I'm sure that we would all share in congratulating her—for 26 years she campaigned—but also at the same time in remembering those who gave their lives as well.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Gwn fod hwn yn faes rydych yn teimlo'n gryf iawn amdano, felly, tybed a wnewch chi ymuno â mi i longyfarch Patti Flynn, a welodd, yr wythnos diwethaf, blac i gofio am aelodau o gymuned y bobl dduon a lleiafrifoedd ethnig a ymladdodd drosom yn y rhyfel. Gosodwyd y plac hwnnw ar Gofeb Ryfel Genedlaethol Cymru yng Nghaerdydd ddydd Sadwrn diwethaf. Rwy'n siŵr y byddem i gyd yn ymuno i'w llongyfarch—am y 26 mlynedd y bu'n ymgyrchu—ond hefyd ar yr un pryd i gofio am y rhai a roddodd eu bywydau.
It was remiss of me not to mention Patti Flynn, a person for whom I have the highest personal regard. And, indeed, it's not only the importance of the commemoration of the war memorial to the black and ethnic communities that took such an active part in the defence of the United Kingdom and our communities at these difficult times, but it is also the importance for us, as a Government, in recognising that we are a genuinely multicultural society and multiracial society here in Wales. So, I'm very grateful to you for reminding me of the importance of Patti Flynn's contribution.
Roeddwn ar fai'n anghofio sôn am Patti Flynn, person y mae gennyf barch personol uchel iawn tuag ati. Ac yn wir, mae a wnelo nid yn unig â phwysigrwydd coffâd y gofeb ryfel i'r cymunedau du ac ethnig a gymerodd ran mor weithredol yn amddiffyn y Deyrnas Unedig a'n cymunedau ar yr adegau anodd hyn, ond â phwysigrwydd hynny i ni fel Llywodraeth, i gydnabod ein bod yn gymdeithas amlddiwylliannol ac amlhiliol go iawn yma yng Nghymru. Felly, rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn i chi am fy atgoffa am bwysigrwydd cyfraniad Patti Flynn.
Felly, i grynhoi, dwi'n gobeithio mai cychwyn y drafodaeth ydyn ni heddiw, a dwi'n edrych ymlaen at gydweithio ymhellach efo Paul Davies ac Aelodau eraill o'r Cynulliad sydd yn amlwg â diddordeb, wedi aros yma am y drafodaeth yma heddiw, i sicrhau ein bod ni'n parhau i goffáu mewn modd priodol y rhai y mae ein rhyddid ni wedi dibynnu ar eu bywydau nhw.
To conclude, I very much hope that this, today, is the beginning of this discussion. I look forward to working further with Paul Davies and other Assembly Members who clearly have interest and who have remained for today’s debate, to ensure that we do continue to commemorate and remember in an appropriate way those on whom our freedom depends.
Thank you very much. That brings today's proceedings to a close. Diolch yn fawr.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Daw hynny â thrafodion heddiw i ben. Diolch yn fawr.
Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 18:18.
The meeting ended at 18:18.