Y Cyfarfod Llawn - Y Bumed Senedd
Plenary - Fifth Senedd
11/07/2018Cynnwys
Contents
Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 13:30 gyda’r Llywydd (Elin Jones) yn y Gadair.
The Assembly met at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.
Galw'r Aelodau i drefn.
I call Members to order.
Yr eitem gyntaf ar ein hagenda ni'r prynhawn yma yw'r cwestiynau i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Ynni, Cynllunio a Materion Gwledig, a'r cwestiwn cyntaf, Joyce Watson.
The first item on our agenda this afternoon is questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Energy, Planning and Rural Affairs, and the first question, Joyce Watson.
1. A wnaiff Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ddatganiad am reoli perthi yn yr haf? OAQ52485
1. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on summer hedgerow management? OAQ52485
We recognise the agricultural, wildlife and landscape value of hedgerows. Birds mostly nest between March and August, and hedges should be checked before cutting, to avoid harm to nests. Recipients of common agricultural policy payments must adhere to cross-compliance rules, under which hedgerows cannot be cut between March and August.
Rydym yn cydnabod gwerth amaethyddol perthi, a'u gwerth i fywyd gwyllt ac i'r dirwedd. Mae adar yn nythu rhwng mis Mawrth a mis Awst yn bennaf, a dylid archwilio perthi cyn eu torri, er mwyn osgoi niwed i nythod. Mae'n rhaid i bawb sy’n derbyn taliadau'r polisi amaethyddol cyffredin ddilyn rheolau trawsgydymffurfio, sy'n datgan na ellir torri perthi rhwng mis Mawrth a mis Awst.
Thank you for that, but every summer I'm alarmed by the number of hedges that are being trimmed during peak nesting season. They do provide an important food source for all types of animals, and vital nesting habitat for birds, particularly in the spring and summer months. And this year, travelling the roads, I've already witnessed unnecessary hedge cutting on several occasions across my constituency, and it's unnecessary because the hedge was under a tree canopy, and several metres away from the road. As you said, farmers and landowners are obliged by legislation not to trim between 1 March and 31 August, and that's fantastic. But with local authorities, and private householders, and golf courses, it's down to best practice—it's not compulsory. Nesting birds are protected under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, but it doesn't protect them if we rely on hedgerows being adequately maintained during peak season. So, can I ask that the Welsh Government considers looking at introducing legislation that would make it compulsory for local authorities, private households and golf courses, and the like, not to trim their hedges between March and August and to bring those in line with the farmers and the landowners?
Diolch am hynny, ond bob haf, mae nifer y perthi sy'n cael eu torri ynghanol y tymor nythu yn peri cryn bryder i mi. Maent yn darparu ffynhonnell bwysig o fwyd ar gyfer pob math o anifeiliaid, a chynefin nythu hanfodol i adar, yn enwedig yn ystod misoedd y gwanwyn a'r haf. Ac eleni, wrth deithio ar y ffyrdd, rwyf eisoes wedi gweld perthi'n cael eu torri heb fod angen ar sawl achlysur yn fy etholaeth, ac mae'n ddiangen am fod y perthi o dan ganopi coed, a sawl metr oddi wrth y ffordd. Fel y dywedoch, mae deddfwriaeth yn gorfodi ffermwyr a thirfeddianwyr i beidio â thorri perthi rhwng 1 Mawrth a 31 Awst, ac mae hynny'n wych. Ond gydag awdurdodau lleol, a deiliaid tai preifat, a chyrsiau golff, mae'n dibynnu ar arferion gorau—nid yw'n orfodol. Mae adar sy'n nythu wedi'u gwarchod o dan Ddeddf Bywyd Gwyllt a Chefn Gwlad 1981, ond nid yw'n eu gwarchod os ydym yn dibynnu ar berthi'n cael eu cynnal yn briodol ynghanol y tymor nythu. Felly, a gaf fi ofyn i Lywodraeth Cymru ystyried cyflwyno deddfwriaeth a fyddai'n ei gwneud yn orfodol i awdurdodau lleol, cartrefi preifat a chyrsiau golff a'u tebyg, ymatal rhag torri eu perthi rhwng mis Mawrth a mis Awst, gan sicrhau eu bod yn rhwym i'r un rheolau â'r ffermwyr a'r tirfeddianwyr?
Can I thank the Member for the question? You raise a really important point in terms of the value of hedgerows in providing food sources and vital habitats for birds and animals, and to enhance and protect biodiversity. Under the Environment (Wales) Act 2016, there was a public duty on all public authorities to seek and maintain biodiversity, and doing so to increase ecosystem resilience, which also provides additional protection for hedgerows and the associated biodiversity, including pollinators. It is my plan to go and meet with local authorities in terms of actually how they are enacting the biodiversity duty in the environment Act and actually emphasise that that can form part of the value of hedgerows as part of that. You referenced the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981. It does serve as a statutory mechanism to prevent the disturbance of nesting birds, from March to October, through hedge cutting. Although hedge cutting during these periods is not unlawful, all hedge owners must ensure no nesting birds are present before doing so.
A gaf fi ddiolch i'r Aelod am y cwestiwn? Rydych yn codi pwynt pwysig iawn o ran gwerth perthi'n darparu ffynonellau bwyd a chynefinoedd hanfodol i adar ac anifeiliaid, ac i wella a diogelu bioamrywiaeth. O dan Ddeddf yr Amgylchedd (Cymru) 2016, roedd dyletswydd gyhoeddus ar bob awdurdod cyhoeddus i sicrhau a chynnal bioamrywiaeth, a thrwy hynny gynyddu gwydnwch ecosystemau, sydd hefyd yn darparu diogelwch ychwanegol ar gyfer perthi a'r fioamrywiaeth gysylltiedig, gan gynnwys pryfed peillio. Fy mwriad yw cyfarfod ag awdurdodau lleol i drafod sut y maent yn rhoi'r ddyletswydd bioamrywiaeth yn Neddf yr amgylchedd ar waith, a phwysleisio y gall hynny ffurfio rhan o werth perthi fel rhan o hynny. Cyfeiriasoch at Ddeddf Bywyd Gwyllt a Chefn Gwlad 1981. Mae'n gweithredu fel mecanwaith statudol i atal aflonyddu ar adar sy'n nythu, o fis Mawrth i fis Hydref, drwy dorri perthi. Er nad yw torri perthi yn ystod y cyfnodau hyn yn anghyfreithlon, mae'n rhaid i bawb sy'n berchen ar berthi sicrhau nad oes adar yn nythu yn y perthi cyn gwneud hynny.
Minister, I've received representations from constituents who have concerns over the over-zealous cutting of roadside verges, especially on the A40 from Fishguard to Haverfordwest road, which is destroying local flora and has knock-on effects on local wildlife. I understand that the Welsh Government is introducing a new green corridor initiative for roadside verges. But can you tell us what specific action the Welsh Government can take to protect the verges and ensure that their maintenance is appropriate and actually protects local wildlife?
Weinidog, rwyf wedi derbyn sylwadau gan etholwyr sy'n pryderu ynglŷn â gormod o dorri lleiniau ymylon ffyrdd, yn enwedig ar ffordd yr A40 rhwng Abergwaun a Hwlffordd, gan ddinistrio fflora lleol, ac mae hyn yn arwain at effeithiau canlyniadol ar fywyd gwyllt lleol. Rwy'n deall bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn cyflwyno menter coridor gwyrdd newydd ar gyfer lleiniau ymylon ffyrdd. Ond a allwch ddweud wrthym pa gamau penodol y gall Llywodraeth Cymru eu cymryd i warchod y lleiniau a sicrhau bod y gwaith o'u cynnal a'u cadw yn addas ac yn gwarchod y bywyd gwyllt lleol?
I thank the Member for his question. You raise very similar points in terms of the importance of hedgerows in terms of protecting and enhancing habitats and biodiversity. And whilst the primary functions of hedgerows are often seen as just for the purpose of stock management and to mark land boundaries, there is a wider, broader value to them too, and a purpose for us. You mentioned the green corridors; they're often called wildlife corridors as well—biodiversity corridors. We brought before this place just recently the updated woodland strategy, and that incorporates looking at how hedgerows are part of that, in terms of creating green coverage, which is one of the avenues that will be taking this forward.
Diolch i'r Aelod am ei gwestiwn. Rydych yn codi pwyntiau tebyg iawn o ran pwysigrwydd perthi i warchod a gwella cynefinoedd a bioamrywiaeth. Ac er yr ystyrir yn aml mai prif swyddogaethau perthi yw rheoli stoc a nodi ffiniau tir, mae ganddynt werth ehangach, mwy cyffredinol hefyd, a phwrpas ar ein cyfer ni. Fe sonioch chi am goridorau gwyrdd; fe'u gelwir yn aml yn goridorau bywyd gwyllt hefyd—coridorau bioamrywiaeth. Yn ddiweddar, fe gyflwynom ni'r strategaeth goetiroedd wedi'i diweddaru gerbron y lle hwn, ac mae honno'n edrych ar sut y mae perthi'n rhan o hynny, o ran creu gorchudd gwyrdd, sef un o'r llwybrau ar gyfer bwrw ymlaen â hyn.
2. A wnaiff Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ddatganiad am ynni'r môr yng ngogledd Cymru? OAQ52492
2. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on marine energy in north Wales? OAQ52492
We recognise the potential of marine energy in creating low-carbon energy and providing economic and social benefits to our coastal communities. Welsh Government policies have supported the deployment of a range of marine energy technologies, and we will continue to work to realise the opportunities associated with this sector.
Rydym yn cydnabod potensial ynni'r môr wrth greu ynni carbon isel a darparu manteision economaidd a chymdeithasol i'n cymunedau arfordirol. Mae polisïau Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cefnogi'r defnydd o amrywiaeth o dechnolegau ynni'r môr, a byddwn yn parhau i weithio i wireddu'r cyfleoedd sy'n gysylltiedig â'r sector hwn.
Diolch yn fawr iawn i chi. Mae'n siŵr y dylai'r cwestiwn fod wedi ei aralleirio i olygu ynni'r môr oddi ar arfordir gogledd Cymru, i fod yn fanwl gywir. Ond, yn sicr, oddi ar yr arfordir, mae yna doreth o ynni ac, wrth gwrs, mae Ynys Môn yn un o'r llefydd lle mae yna waith blaengar iawn yn cael ei wneud i drio medi yr ynni hwnnw. Wrth gwrs, mae prosiectau Morlais a Minesto Deep Green yn ddau o'r rhai mwyaf blaenllaw—mi oedd hi'n braf ymweld â'r ddau efo Simon Thomas rhyw wythnos neu ddwy yn ôl.
Rŵan, o ran prosiect Morlais, mae'r prosiect hwnnw'n cyrraedd at bwynt allweddol. Mae angen symud ymlaen at Morlais B, sef i wneud y cyswllt trydanol, ac mae angen dros £20 miliwn o arian Ewropeaidd—gobeithio a ddaw—ar gyfer hwnnw. Rŵan, o ystyried arian oedd wedi cael ei glustnodi gan eich Llywodraeth chi ar gyfer morlyn Abertawe, prosiect rwyf yn gobeithio a all gario yn ei flaen efo cefnogaeth Cymru, os nad oes gan Lundain ddiddordeb, a ydy'r Llywodraeth, yn yr un modd, yn barod i ystyried buddsoddi ym mhrosiect Morlais fel arian cyfatebol a allai helpu, ochr yn ochr ag ecwiti preifat, i ryddhau'r cyllid Ewropeaidd hollbwysig yna?
Thank you very much. Perhaps the question should have been reworded to ask about marine energy off the north Wales coast, to be precise. However, there is a large amount of energy available offshore and Anglesey is one of those areas where there is very innovative work being done to try and harvest that energy. Of course, the Morlais and Minesto Deep Green projects are two of the most prominent, and it was good to visit both with Simon Thomas just a week or two ago.
Now, in terms of the Morlais project, that project is reaching a key point now. We need to move on to Morlais B to make that electrical connection, and over £20 million of European funding will be required and, hopefully, will be made available for that. Now, given the funding that had been allocated by your Government for the Swansea bay tidal lagoon—a project that I do hope can proceed with Welsh support—if London isn’t interested, then would the Government, likewise, be prepared to consider an investment in the Morlais project as match funding that could help, alongside private equity, to release that crucial European funding?
Diolch. Anglesey is really becoming a hub, I think, now for tidal stream development, certainly, and I think, again, looking at tidal development, we need to make sure that we've got support from the UK Government, and I've written again to Greg Clark on the back of the very disappointing announcement in relation to the Swansea bay tidal lagoon.
In answer to your very specific question about the funding that we had put aside—the £200 million—I have had some early discussions around the potential of being able to use that funding for other renewable energy projects. You'll be aware that we are going to bring forward a marine energy summit later on in the year, so I think the two will go hand in hand, but it's something I'm very happy to look at. I too have visited Morlais, so I'm very aware of the project and the significant benefits it could bring.
Diolch. Credaf fod Ynys Môn yn sicr yn dod yn ganolbwynt bellach ar gyfer datblygu ffrydiau llanw, ac rwy'n credu, unwaith eto, wrth edrych ar ddatblygu ynni'r llanw, fod angen inni sicrhau ein bod yn cael cefnogaeth gan Lywodraeth y DU, ac rwyf wedi ysgrifennu eto at Greg Clark yn dilyn y cyhoeddiad siomedig iawn am forlyn llanw bae Abertawe.
I ateb eich cwestiwn penodol iawn ynglŷn â'r arian a neilltuwyd gennym—y £200 miliwn—rwyf wedi cael trafodaethau cynnar ynglŷn â'r posibilrwydd o allu defnyddio'r arian hwnnw ar gyfer prosiectau ynni adnewyddadwy eraill. Fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol y byddwn yn cynnal cynhadledd ynni'r môr yn hwyrach yn y flwyddyn, felly credaf y bydd y ddau beth yn mynd law yn llaw, ond mae'n rhywbeth rwy'n fwy na pharod i'w archwilio. Rwyf innau wedi ymweld â Morlais, felly rwy'n ymwybodol iawn o'r prosiect a'r manteision sylweddol y gallai eu darparu.
I'm very pleased to hear that alternative ways of spending that £200 million are being considered by the Welsh Government, Cabinet Secretary. You'll be aware that there are companies who are interested in developing a tidal lagoon off the north Wales coast, using different technology than has been proposed in the south, and some seed funding in order to do some scoping work with Bangor University and others is being sought by that company and some other partners. I wonder whether you can consider making some of that £200 million available in order to do some of that scoping work, so that that can be open research that anybody can access if they want to further explore those wonderful opportunities that there might be for energy generation off the north Wales coast, which would bring other benefits, such as flood protection benefits and, indeed, agriculture and tourism benefits too.
Rwy'n falch iawn o glywed bod Lywodraeth Cymru yn ystyried ffyrdd eraill o wario'r £200 miliwn hwnnw, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol fod gan gwmnïau ddiddordeb mewn datblygu morlyn llanw oddi ar arfordir gogledd Cymru, gan ddefnyddio technoleg wahanol i'r hyn a gynigiwyd yn y de, ac mae'r cwmni hwnnw a phartneriaid eraill yn chwilio am gyllid sbarduno er mwyn gwneud gwaith cwmpasu gyda Phrifysgol Bangor ac eraill. Tybed a allwch ystyried darparu rhywfaint o'r £200 miliwn hwnnw er mwyn gwneud peth o'r gwaith cwmpasu, iddo fod yn ymchwil agored y gall unrhyw un gael mynediad ato os ydynt am ymchwilio ymhellach i'r cyfleoedd gwych a allai fod ar gael i gynhyrchu ynni oddi ar arfordir gogledd Cymru, a fyddai'n darparu manteision eraill, fel manteision amddiffyn rhag llifogydd, a manteision o ran amaethyddiaeth a thwristiaeth yn wir.
Thank you. Certainly, I'm aware of the proposal for a tidal lagoon in north Wales, and, as you say, it is a different technology. I think one of the areas that I am concerned about around tidal lagoons is that if the UK Government don't have a strategy, the impact that that will have. And I'll certainly be happy to look at the value-for-money report that they have now commissioned and is now on its way to us.
In relation to the question around seed funding being sought, I think perhaps the best thing would be if you or they wrote to me and I could have discussions with the Cabinet Secretary for Finance.
Diolch. Yn sicr, rwy'n ymwybodol o'r cynnig ar gyfer morlyn llanw yng ngogledd Cymru, ac fel y dywedwch, mae'n dechnoleg wahanol. Rwy'n credu mai un o'r pethau sy'n peri pryder i mi o ran môr-lynnoedd llanw yw os nad oes gan Lywodraeth y DU strategaeth, yr effaith y bydd hynny'n ei chael. A byddaf yn sicr yn fwy na pharod i edrych ar yr adroddiad gwerth am arian y maent bellach wedi'i gomisiynu ac sydd bellach ar ei ffordd atom.
O ran y cwestiwn ynglŷn â chwilio am gyllid sbarduno, credaf efallai mai'r peth gorau fyddai iddynt hwy neu chi ysgrifennu ataf a gallwn innau gael trafodaethau gydag Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Gyllid.
Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Andrew R.T. Davies.
We now move to questions from the party spokespeople. The Conservative spokesperson, Andrew R.T. Davies.
Thank you, Presiding Officer; I've had my reincarnation as rural affairs spokesperson. [Laughter.]
I'd like to ask you, Cabinet Secretary, in light of the consultation that you launched yesterday—the very important consultation that you launched yesterday—what is your definition of a 'land manager'? One of the five principles that you've underlined is that, under any new schemes that might be coming forward from the Welsh Government, they need to be accessible to all. So, it's important to understand what the criteria would be to make that accessible. So, what is a land manager in your eyes?
Diolch, Lywydd; cefais fy ailymgnawdoli yn llefarydd materion gwledig. [Chwerthin.]
Hoffwn ofyn ichi, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, yng ngoleuni'r ymgynghoriad a lansiwyd gennych ddoe—yr ymgynghoriad pwysig iawn a lansiwyd gennych ddoe—beth yw eich diffiniad o 'reolwr tir'? Un o'r pum egwyddor rydych wedi'u tanlinellu yw, o dan unrhyw gynlluniau newydd a allai gael eu cyflwyno gan Lywodraeth Cymru, fod angen iddynt fod yn hygyrch i bawb. Felly, mae'n bwysig deall beth fyddai'r meini prawf i'w gwneud yn hygyrch. Felly, beth yw rheolwr tir yn eich barn chi?
I'd like to welcome Andrew R.T. Davies to his new position. I very much look forward to you shadowing me. You always describe yourself as 19 stone of prime Welsh beef, so I'm sure we'll have some fun alongside that too. So, welcome to your portfolio.
How do I define a land manager? I would say farmers and foresters, but, of course, the majority of our land managers in Wales are farmers.
Hoffwn groesawu Andrew R.T. Davies i'w swydd newydd. Edrychaf ymlaen yn fawr at eich cael yn fy nghysgodi. Rydych bob amser yn disgrifio'ch hun fel 19 stôn o gig eidion gorau Cymru, felly rwy'n siŵr y cawn ychydig o hwyl gyda hynny hefyd. Felly, croeso i'ch portffolio.
Sut rwy'n diffinio rheolwr tir? Buaswn yn dweud ffermwyr a choedwigwyr, ond wrth gwrs, mae mwyafrif ein rheolwyr tir yng Nghymru yn ffermwyr.
I'm grateful for that interpretation, although, certainly, reading the consultation and reading some press speculation, it did seem as if the definition was slightly wider than that, and the interpretation could be given that large companies, for example, that might have land holdings—Tata Steel for example, or local authorities that might be looking to look after parklands or verges or whatever—that meet the environmental goals might well be able to access some of this funding that historically, under the common agricultural policy, has always been available to someone with a holding number or customer reference number. So, I'd be grateful if you could enlarge on that interpretation of who you think is a land manager. Would such public bodies, as I've just outlined, or private companies be eligible for a slice of this money that the Welsh Government would be making available, because, if so, that would be a complete change in direction from what the common agricultural policy historically has delivered back to Welsh agriculture?
Diolch am y dehongliad hwnnw, er ei bod yn ymddangos, yn sicr, wrth ddarllen yr ymgynghoriad ac wrth ddarllen rhywfaint o ddyfalu yn y wasg, fod y diffiniad ychydig yn ehangach na hynny, ac y gellid dehongli y gall cwmnïau mawr, er enghraifft, a chanddynt ddaliadau tir—Tata Steel, er enghraifft, neu awdurdodau lleol a allai fod yn awyddus i ofalu am barciau neu leiniau neu beth bynnag—sy'n bodloni'r nodau amgylcheddol gael gafael ar rywfaint o'r arian hwn sydd, yn hanesyddol, o dan y polisi amaethyddol cyffredin, bob amser wedi bod ar gael i rywun sydd â rhif daliad neu gyfeirnod cwsmer. Felly, buaswn yn ddiolchgar pe gallech ymhelaethu ar y dehongliad o bwy y credwch sy'n rheolwr tir. A fyddai cyrff cyhoeddus o'r fath, fel yr amlinellais, neu gwmnïau preifat yn gymwys i gael peth o'r arian hwn y byddai Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei ddarparu, oherwydd os felly, byddai hynny'n newid cyfeiriad llwyr o'r hyn y mae'r polisi amaethyddol cyffredin, yn hanesyddol, wedi'i ddarparu yn ôl i amaethyddiaeth Cymru?
Well, perhaps, I can give you a little piece of advice as you start your new role, and that's not to believe everything you read in the press. I think that's the first thing to say.
In relation to the definition of a land manager, as I say, the majority of our land managers in Wales are farmers and have always been. I don't think it's a huge change of direction. You'll be aware of the two schemes that we're bringing forward: the economic resilience scheme and the public goods scheme. Now, what we're consulting on is the make-up of those schemes and how those schemes can ensure that we deliver our objectives in relation to the five principles that I set back in February for our sector. So, the consultation is there. I've heard in the press that we'll be funding allotments. We won't be funding allotments. So, I think it is important that we have clarification around the consultation, and I would again urge as many people as possible to bring forward their views.
Wel, efallai y gallaf roi ychydig o gyngor ichi wrth i chi ddechrau ar eich rôl newydd, sef i beidio â chredu popeth a ddarllenwch yn y wasg. Credaf mai dyna'r peth cyntaf i'w ddweud.
Mewn perthynas â'r diffiniad o reolwr tir, fel y dywedaf, mae mwyafrif ein rheolwyr tir yng Nghymru yn ffermwyr ac wedi bod felly erioed. Ni chredaf fod hyn yn newid mawr o ran cyfeiriad. Fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol o'r ddau gynllun rydym yn eu cyflwyno: y cynllun cadernid economaidd a'r cynllun nwyddau cyhoeddus. Nawr, rydym yn ymgynghori ar gyfansoddiad y cynlluniau hynny a sut y gall y cynlluniau sicrhau y byddwn yn cyflawni ein hamcanion o ran y pum egwyddor a nodais ym mis Chwefror ar gyfer ein sector. Felly, mae'r ymgynghoriad yno. Rwyf wedi clywed yn y wasg y byddwn yn ariannu rhandiroedd. Ni fyddwn yn ariannu rhandiroedd. Felly, credaf ei bod yn bwysig inni fod yn eglur ynglŷn â'r ymgynghoriad, ac unwaith eto, buaswn yn annog cynifer o bobl â phosibl i ddweud eu barn.
I'm grateful for that explanation, and maybe I can give a bit of advice back to the Cabinet Secretary: actually, I took it from a one-on-one interview that was in Wales Farmer yesterday, in which you gave a series of answers, so they were your answers that I was deducing my questions from. Clearly, they did leave the door open to interpretation of what a land manager was and actually who would be eligible for this funding. I appreciate the consultation is out there and there's much work to be done on that consultation, but there are some grey areas. You've clarified it to a point, about allotments, for example, and I presume that that would feed through into public bodies or private companies as well, as I cited, that wouldn't be eligible.
But one thing that, obviously, the consultation doesn't touch on is volatility in the marketplace. It talks of public goods and it talks about the environment, it does. As we're going through a heatwave at the moment, if you've got a farmer producing crops and producing livestock from the land in Wales, that volatility in the weather and the conditions is something that you can't mitigate. Any business plan you draw up cannot take that into account. What weight will you be giving to the volatility, to the very delicate environment that farmers and land managers work in, that no business plan can take account of? Is this an omission from the consultation and you'll be looking at it during further opportunities, or, under the two headings you've got, you've got volatility in there and it's just difficult at the moment to find it?
Rwy'n ddiolchgar am yr eglurhad hwnnw, ac efallai y gallaf roi ychydig o gyngor yn ôl i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet: mewn gwirionedd, fe'i cymerais o gyfweliad un i un yn y Wales Farmer ddoe, lle rhoesoch gyfres o atebion, felly roedd fy nghwestiynau'n seiliedig ar eich atebion chi. Yn amlwg, roeddent yn gadael y drws yn agored i ddehongliad o'r hyn yw rheolwr tir a phwy fyddai'n gymwys ar gyfer y cyllid hwn. Rwy'n sylweddoli bod yr ymgynghoriad ar waith a bod llawer o waith i'w wneud ar yr ymgynghoriad hwnnw, ond ceir rhai mannau niwlog. Rydych wedi egluro hyn i raddau, ynghylch rhandiroedd er enghraifft, ac rwy'n cymryd y byddai hynny'n cynnwys cyrff cyhoeddus neu gwmnïau preifat hefyd, fel y nodwyd gennyf, na fyddent yn gymwys.
Ond un peth, yn amlwg, nad yw'r ymgynghoriad yn ei grybwyll yw ansefydlogrwydd yn y farchnad. Mae'n sôn am nwyddau cyhoeddus ac yn sôn am yr amgylchedd, yn wir. A ninnau'n cael tywydd poeth ar hyn o bryd, os oes gennych ffermwr yn cynhyrchu cnydau a chynhyrchu da byw o'r tir yng Nghymru, mae'r ansefydlogrwydd yn y tywydd a'r amodau yn rhywbeth na ellir ei liniaru. Ni all unrhyw gynllun busnes a luniwch roi ystyriaeth i hynny. Pa bwysau fyddwch chi'n ei roi i'r ansefydlogrwydd, i'r amgylchedd bregus iawn y mae ffermwyr a rheolwyr tir yn gweithio ynddo, na all unrhyw gynllun busnes roi ystyriaeth iddo? A yw wedi'i hepgor o'r ymgynghoriad a byddwch yn edrych arno yn ystod cyfleoedd pellach, neu o dan y ddau bennawd sydd gennych, mae gennych ansefydlogrwydd yno ac mae'n anodd dod o hyd iddo ar hyn o bryd?
In relation to volatility, obviously we work very closely with the UK Government and the other devolved administrations around that. I think you make a very pertinent point—we haven't seen this sort of weather for over 30, 40 years. So, I think it is important to make sure that we help businesses in relation to their business plans around volatility.
Just going back to the previous question on the public goods scheme, I recognise that so many of our farmers bring forward public goods at the moment that they don't get paid for and I think that's wrong. We put a huge amount of value on our public goods in Wales and I want to make sure that that is recognised, going forward with the schemes.
Mewn perthynas ag ansefydlogrwydd, yn amlwg, rydym yn gweithio'n agos iawn gyda Llywodraeth y DU a'r gweinyddiaethau datganoledig eraill ar hynny. Credaf eich bod yn gwneud pwynt perthnasol iawn—nid ydym wedi gweld y math hwn o dywydd ers dros 30, 40 mlynedd. Felly, credaf ei bod yn bwysig sicrhau ein bod yn helpu busnesau gyda'u cynlluniau busnes mewn perthynas ag ansefydlogrwydd.
Gan ddychwelyd at y cwestiwn blaenorol ar y cynllun nwyddau cyhoeddus, rwy'n cydnabod bod llawer iawn o'n ffermwyr yn darparu nwyddau cyhoeddus ar y funud heb gael eu talu amdanynt a chredaf fod hynny'n anghywir. Rydym yn rhoi gwerth aruthrol ar ein nwyddau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru ac rwy'n awyddus i sicrhau bod hynny'n cael ei gydnabod, wrth fwrw ymlaen gyda'r cynlluniau.
Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Simon Thomas.
The Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Simon Thomas.
Diolch, Llywydd. Cabinet Secretary, Jeremy Corbyn believes that a basic income is a very good idea. Can you explain why you don't think it's a good idea for Welsh farmers?
Diolch, Lywydd. Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, mae Jeremy Corbyn yn credu bod incwm sylfaenol yn syniad da iawn. A allwch esbonio pam na chredwch ei fod yn syniad da i ffermwyr Cymru?
I presume you're referring to the basic payments scheme and direct payments. I don't believe the common agricultural policy has delivered the outcomes that we think we can get more out of and that are of such huge importance here in Wales.
Rwy'n cymryd eich bod yn cyfeirio at y cynllun taliadau sylfaenol a thaliadau uniongyrchol. Ni chredaf fod y polisi amaethyddol cyffredin wedi darparu'r canlyniadau y credwn y gallwn gael mwy allan ohonynt ac sydd mor hynod o bwysig yma yng Nghymru.
Well, I thank you for that reply, and you're right that I am referring to the break of the link between what you could describe as a basic income and a move—significant shift—to outcomes based on public goods, as you've just described it, which is Treasury language to justify some of this. I understand that, and I think there's a lot in your consultation paper that is to be worked with and the grain of which I accept. But in breaking the link between the land that a farmer is responsible for, and the family farm in particular in Wales, you are also breaking the link between wholesome, sustainable food production and the ongoing support of payments. And I wonder whether you still believe such food production is in itself a public good or merely the associated environmental benefits, which you've just described.
Wel, diolch am eich ateb, ac rydych yn llygad eich lle fy mod yn cyfeirio at y toriad yn y cysylltiad rhwng yr hyn y gellid ei ddisgrifio fel incwm sylfaenol a newid—newid sylweddol—i ganlyniadau sy'n seiliedig ar nwyddau cyhoeddus, fel rydych newydd ei ddisgrifio, gan ddefnyddio iaith y Trysorlys i gyfiawnhau rhywfaint o hyn. Rwy'n deall hynny, a chredaf fod llawer yn eich papur ymgynghori i weithio gydag ef ac rwy'n derbyn y cyfeiriad y mae'n mynd iddo. Ond wrth dorri'r cysylltiad rhwng y tir y mae ffermwr yn gyfrifol amdano, a'r fferm deuluol yn arbennig yng Nghymru, rydych hefyd yn torri'r cysylltiad rhwng cynhyrchu bwyd iachus, cynaliadwy a chymorth parhaus y taliadau. A thybed a ydych yn dal o'r farn fod cynhyrchu bwyd yn y fath fodd yn nwydd cyhoeddus ynddo'i hun, neu a yw hynny ond yn cynnwys y manteision amgylcheddol cysylltiedig a ddisgrifiwyd gennych.
Food production is vitally important and I refer to the five principles and about delivering on the objectives of the five principles, and food production is one of them, and I was absolutely determined that it would be one of them, but it's not a public good. Food is not a public good. It has a market and so it cannot be a public good. So, what I suppose we're doing is creating a market, if you like, for public goods, but food is not a public good.
Mae cynhyrchu bwyd yn hollbwysig a chyfeiriaf at y pum egwyddor ac at gyflawni amcanion y pum egwyddor, ac mae cynhyrchu bwyd yn un ohonynt, ac roeddwn yn gwbl benderfynol y byddai'n un ohonynt, ond nid yw'n nwydd cyhoeddus. Nid yw bwyd yn nwydd cyhoeddus. Mae ganddo farchnad ac felly ni all fod yn nwydd cyhoeddus. Felly, mae'n debyg mai'r hyn rydym yn ei wneud yw creu marchnad, os mynnwch, ar gyfer nwyddau cyhoeddus, ond nid yw bwyd yn nwydd cyhoeddus.
I think that the way you produce food is a public good and I think that sustainable and wholesome food is something that we should be trying to achieve for the wider benefit of the environment, our public health and everything else, so I would certainly want and urge people to respond to your consultation in making that strong link.
What we don't want to see, and I'm sure you'd agree, is the end of the family farm in Wales, the end of farmers who are responsible and stewards of the land that they either own or have tenanted—because it's increasingly also a tenanted landscape that we see. And we wouldn't want the end of that and then the replacement of family farms by employed land managers or people who are wardens or anything else. The key to maintaining your safe environment is that long-term investment, that long-term resilience, and a family farm and a farmer, himself or herself, at the heart of it.
But, as you have suggested that a greater number of people will be able to fish in this declining pond, can you also reply as to how we will ensure that this will be a long-term and sustainable construct under your consultation? At the moment, the common agricultural policy is seven years; though there are changes, they are often gradual, and farmers, particularly if we're moving towards public goods, will need to demonstrate things like carbon capture or flood prevention not over one year or two years, but over a long period of time. So, are you taking fully into account the need for multi-annual frameworks and investment in your land management policies?
Credaf fod y ffordd rydych yn cynhyrchu bwyd yn nwydd cyhoeddus a chredaf fod bwyd cynaliadwy a iachus yn rhywbeth y dylem fod yn ceisio'i gyflawni er budd ehangach yr amgylchedd, ein hiechyd cyhoeddus a phopeth arall, felly buaswn yn sicr yn awyddus i annog pobl i ymateb i'ch ymgynghoriad wrth wneud y cysylltiad cryf hwnnw.
Yr hyn nad ydym am ei weld, ac rwy'n siŵr y byddech yn cytuno, yw diwedd ar y fferm deuluol yng Nghymru, diwedd ar y ffermwyr sy'n gyfrifol am, ac yn stiwardio'r tir y maent naill ai'n berchen arno neu'n ei osod ar rent—gan ein bod yn gweld mwy a mwy o dir yn cael ei osod ar rent. Ac ni fyddem am weld diwedd ar hynny, a ffermydd teuluol yn cael eu disodli gan reolwyr tir cyflogedig neu bobl sy'n wardeiniaid neu unrhyw beth arall. Mae'r buddsoddiad hirdymor hwnnw a'r cadernid hirdymor hwnnw'n allweddol i gynnal eich amgylchedd diogel, ac mae fferm deuluol a'r ffermwr ei hun yn ganolog i hynny.
Ond gan eich bod wedi awgrymu y bydd nifer fwy o bobl yn gallu pysgota yn y pwll hwn sy'n mynd yn llai, a allwch ateb hefyd sut y byddwn yn sicrhau y bydd hon yn elfen gynaliadwy a hirdymor o dan eich ymgynghoriad? Ar hyn o bryd, mae'r polisi amaethyddol cyffredin yn saith mlynedd o hyd; er bod newidiadau, maent yn aml yn rhai graddol, ac yn enwedig os ydym yn symud tuag at nwyddau cyhoeddus, bydd angen i ffermwyr arddangos pethau fel dal carbon neu atal llifogydd, nid dros flwyddyn neu ddwy flynedd, ond dros gyfnod hir o amser. Felly, a ydych yn rhoi ystyriaeth lawn i'r angen am fframweithiau a buddsoddiad amlflwydd yn eich polisïau rheoli tir?
I want to start by saying that I don't want to see the loss of any small family farms—I don't want to see the loss of one farm. However, we have to recognise that Brexit brings immense challenges for the sector and that's why we need to do all we can to support them. They are custodians of our land and that's the message that—. Funnily enough, I've just done an interview now, ahead of the Royal Welsh Show, and I was asked if my perceptions had changed and I said that the one thing I hadn't realised was how much farmers take pride in their land and making sure that they just look after it for the period of time that they do and to make sure it's there for future generations. When I was out in New Zealand in April, the one lesson I came back with, after what happened to them back in 1984 with that cliff edge, was that they lost so many small farms, and I'm determined that that won't happen post Brexit here in Wales.
This is part of the consultation—you're quite right that they are a long-term sector and they need that multi-year security. And that will form part of the consultation around the two schemes that we've got, and also I've made it very clear—and I hope that's come out in the consultation launch—that we will have this transition period, because basic payments will continue in 2018 and 2019 and then, from 2020, we will start the new scheme. But there has to be a multi-year transition period: you can't expect to go from basic payment straight to the new scheme. So, I'll use Rural Payments Wales, which you'll know is very successful—we're the best in the UK—and I will use that group to make sure that we get the scheme correct from the beginning.
Hoffwn ddechrau drwy ddweud nad oes arnaf eisiau gweld unrhyw ffermydd teuluol bach yn cael eu colli—nid wyf am weld un fferm yn cael ei cholli. Fodd bynnag, mae'n rhaid inni gydnabod bod Brexit yn peri heriau enfawr i'r sector, a dyna pam fod angen inni wneud popeth y gallwn i'w cefnogi. Hwy yw ceidwaid ein tir a dyna'r neges—. Yn rhyfedd ddigon, rwyf newydd gael cyfweliad, cyn Sioe Frenhinol Cymru, a gofynnwyd imi a oedd fy argraffiadau wedi newid, a dywedais mai'r un peth nad oeddwn wedi sylweddoli oedd cymaint y mae ffermwyr yn ymfalchïo yn eu tir ac yn sicrhau eu bod yn gofalu amdano am y cyfnod a wnânt a sicrhau ei fod yno ar gyfer cenedlaethau'r dyfodol. Pan oeddwn yn Seland Newydd ym mis Ebrill, yr un wers a ddysgais, ar ôl yr hyn a ddigwyddodd iddynt yn ôl ym 1984 gydag ymyl y clogwyn hwnnw, oedd eu bod wedi colli cymaint o ffermydd bach, ac rwy'n benderfynol o sicrhau na fydd hynny'n digwydd yma yng Nghymru ar ôl Brexit.
Mae hyn yn rhan o'r ymgynghoriad—rydych yn llygad eich lle eu bod yn sector hirdymor a bod angen y diogelwch amlflwydd hwnnw arnynt. A bydd hynny'n ffurfio rhan o'r ymgynghoriad ar y ddau gynllun sydd gennym, ac rwyf hefyd wedi dweud yn glir iawn—a gobeithiaf fod hyn wedi'i gyfleu wrth lansio'r ymgynghoriad—y byddwn yn cael y cyfnod pontio hwn, oherwydd bydd y taliadau sylfaenol yn parhau yn 2018 a 2019, ac yna, o 2020 ymlaen, byddwn yn dechrau'r cynllun newydd. Ond mae'n rhaid cael cyfnod pontio amlflwydd: ni allwch ddisgwyl newid o'r taliad sylfaenol yn syth i'r cynllun newydd. Felly, byddaf yn defnyddio Taliadau Gwledig Cymru, sy'n llwyddiannus iawn fel y gwyddoch—ni yw'r gorau yn y DU—a byddaf yn defnyddio'r grŵp hwnnw i sicrhau bod y cynllun yn gywir gennym o'r dechrau.
Llefarydd UKIP, Neil Hamilton.
UKIP spokesperson, Neil Hamilton.
Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. I've had a great deal of contact recently with animal welfare campaigners who are concerned about pre-stunning of animals and ritual slaughter, in particular. And they've pointed out to me that non-stun slaughter has now been banned in Denmark, Iceland, Sweden and New Zealand, that the British Veterinary Association have said that pre-stunning is superior from a welfare point of view, and that recent methodological developments in electroencephalograms allow the experience of pain to be assessed more directly than ever before, and, in relation to calves that are slaughtered by ventral neck incision, it's apparently now quite clear that this could be perceived as painful in the period between the incision and the loss of consciousness. So, in these circumstances, will the Cabinet Secretary look again—in line with the BVA's viewpoint and the RSPCA's, and many other organisations involved in animal welfare, that the only way to adhere to the highest standards of animal welfare in Welsh slaughterhouses is to ensure that all animals are stunned before slaughter for whatever reason?
Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd. Rwyf wedi cael llawer o gysylltiad yn ddiweddar ag ymgyrchwyr lles anifeiliaid sy'n pryderu am stynio anifeiliaid cyn eu lladd a defodau lladd anifeiliaid, yn benodol. Ac maent wedi tynnu fy sylw at y ffaith bod lladd heb stynio bellach wedi'i wahardd yn Nenmarc, Gwlad yr Iâ, Sweden a Seland Newydd, fod Cymdeithas Milfeddygon Prydain wedi dweud bod stynio anifeiliaid cyn eu lladd yn well o safbwynt lles, a bod datblygiadau methodolegol diweddar mewn electro-enseffalogramau yn ein galluogi i asesu'r profiad o boen yn fwy uniongyrchol nag erioed o'r blaen, ac mewn perthynas â lloi sy'n cael eu lladd drwy doriad fentrol i'r gwddf, mae'n debyg ei bod bellach yn gwbl glir y gellid dweud bod hyn yn boenus yn y cyfnod rhwng torri'r gwddf a cholli ymwybyddiaeth. Felly, yn yr amgylchiadau hyn, a wnaiff Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet edrych eto—yn unol â safbwyntiau Cymdeithas Milfeddygon Prydain a'r RSPCA, a llawer o sefydliadau eraill sy'n ymwneud â lles anifeiliaid, mai'r unig ffordd o gadw at y safonau uchaf o ran lles anifeiliaid mewn lladd-dai yng Nghymru yw drwy sicrhau bod pob anifail yn cael eu stynio cyn eu lladd am ba reswm bynnag?
This is certainly a discussion I had with the British Veterinary Association just a couple of weeks ago, and I've asked officials to look at the information they've brought forward for me in detail.
Mae hon yn sicr yn drafodaeth a gefais gyda Chymdeithas Milfeddygon Prydain ychydig wythnosau yn ôl, ac rwyf wedi gofyn i swyddogion edrych ar y wybodaeth a gefais ganddynt yn fanwl.
Good. Well, I'm grateful for that reply, which I regard as very positive. In the event that the Cabinet Secretary decides not to change the law in this respect, will she consider an alternative proposition, which also comes from the BVA? They say that they recognise that, whilst pre-stunning is superior from a welfare point of view, should non-stun slaughter continue to be permitted, post-cut stunning offers a valid means of reducing the suffering of animals at slaughter. And post-cut stunning, I think, would meet most of the objections from religious groups.
Da iawn. Wel, rwy'n ddiolchgar am yr ateb hwnnw, a chredaf ei fod yn gadarnhaol iawn. Pe bai Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn penderfynu peidio â newid y gyfraith yn hyn o beth, a wnaiff ystyried cynnig amgen, a wnaed hefyd gan Gymdeithas Milfeddygon Prydain? Dywedant eu bod yn cydnabod, er bod stynio cyn lladd yn well o safbwynt lles, pe bai lladd heb stynio yn parhau i gael ei ganiatáu, y byddai stynio ar ôl torri yn ddull dilys o leihau dioddefaint anifeiliaid wrth eu lladd. A chredaf y byddai stynio ar ôl torri yn bodloni'r rhan fwyaf o'r gwrthwynebiad gan grwpiau crefyddol.
Well, as I say, I'm waiting for officials to come back with advice for me following the initial discussion I've had with the BVA, so, you know, I'm not going to make policy up on the hoof now, but it's obviously an ongoing process for me.
Wel, fel y dywedaf, rwy'n aros i swyddogion roi cyngor i mi ar ôl y drafodaeth gychwynnol a gefais gyda Chymdeithas Milfeddygon Prydain, felly, nid wyf am lunio'r polisi yn y fan a'r lle yn awr, ond mae'n amlwg yn broses barhaus i mi.
Making policy on the hoof would not be appropriate, even for an agriculture spokesman, I'm sure. As the Cabinet Secretary will know, there has been a huge increase in the growth of the halal meat market in particular. Much of this food is not being consumed by Muslims, and it's gone into mainstream takeaways and fast food outlets as well. A lot of people have objections for whatever reason on animal welfare grounds to eating such food. Would she agree with me that it is important that people should know what they're eating and that those who are concerned about the animal welfare considerations that I've mentioned ought therefore to be able to make an informed choice in such circumstances? Will she commit to prioritising greater consumer awareness on religious slaughter and non-stun slaughter, not just through labelling products in supermarkets but also in restaurants and takeaways?
Ni fyddai llunio polisi yn y fan a'r lle yn briodol, hyd yn oed i lefarydd amaethyddiaeth, rwy'n siŵr. Fel y gŵyr Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, mae cynnydd enfawr wedi bod yn nhwf y farchnad cig halal yn enwedig. Nid Mwslimiaid sy'n bwyta llawer o'r bwyd hwn, ac mae wedi mynd i mewn i siopau tecawê prif ffrwd a siopau bwyd brys hefyd. Mae llawer o bobl yn gwrthwynebu bwyta bwyd o'r fath am ba reswm bynnag ar sail lles anifeiliaid. A fyddai'n cytuno â mi ei bod yn bwysig i bobl wybod beth y maent yn ei fwyta, ac felly, y dylai'r rheini sy'n pryderu am yr ystyriaethau lles anifeiliaid a grybwyllais allu gwneud dewis gwybodus mewn amgylchiadau o'r fath? A wnaiff hi ymrwymo i flaenoriaethu mwy o ymwybyddiaeth ymhlith defnyddwyr o ladd at ddibenion crefyddol a lladd heb stynio, nid yn unig drwy labelu cynnyrch mewn archfarchnadoedd ond mewn bwytai a siopau tecawê hefyd?
I absolutely agree—it's very important that people know what they're eating, and I think that, certainly amongst restaurants, that consumer awareness is not out there. I was in a restaurant where I noticed, when I came out, that there was a very small sign at the bottom of the door that said that all meat was halal. Now, I think that should be far more visible, in the way that we've done with food hygiene standards, for instance. So, I absolutely agree that it's very important that people know what they're eating.
Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr—mae'n bwysig iawn fod pobl yn gwybod beth y maent yn ei fwyta, a chredaf, yn sicr mewn perthynas â bwytai, nad yw defnyddwyr yn ymwybodol o'r pethau hyn. Roeddwn mewn bwyty lle y sylwais, wedi i mi ddod allan, ar arwydd bach iawn ar waelod y drws a ddywedai fod yr holl gig yn gig halal. Nawr, credaf y dylai fod yn llawer mwy gweladwy, fel rydym wedi'i wneud gyda safonau hylendid bwyd, er enghraifft. Felly, rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr ei bod yn bwysig iawn i bobl wybod beth y maent yn ei fwyta.
3. Pa gynnydd sy'n cael ei wneud mewn perthynas â lleihau tlodi tanwydd ar draws Gorllewin De Cymru? OAQ52504
3. What progress is being made in reducing fuel poverty across South Wales West? OAQ52504
Thank you. Our Warm Homes programme is making good progress, reducing fuel poverty households by six percentage points across Wales between 2012 and 2016. Since 2012, we've invested over £25 million installing energy efficiency improvements in low-income households in Bridgend, Neath Port Talbot, Rhondda Cynon Taf, Swansea and the Vale of Glamorgan.
Diolch. Mae ein rhaglen Cartrefi Clyd yn gwneud cynnydd da, gan leihau nifer y cartrefi mewn tlodi tanwydd chwe phwynt canran ledled Cymru rhwng 2012 a 2016. Ers 2012, rydym wedi buddsoddi dros £25 miliwn ar osod gwelliannau effeithlonrwydd ynni mewn cartrefi incwm isel ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr, Castell-nedd Port Talbot, Rhondda Cynon Taf, Abertawe a Bro Morgannwg.
Thank you for that answer, Cabinet Secretary. It's important that we do recognise the good work that's been going on in reducing fuel poverty and the action being taken to insulate properties in particular. But, of course, there is a problem with that. Many of my constituents have faced the challenges of cavity wall insulation. They've gone through those programmes, supported by Welsh Government, with businesses coming in, selling their product, basically getting the work done, and then they find they have problems down the line. And, of course, these problems should all be protected against by CIGA, the Cavity Insulation Guarantee Agency. Whether you're living in Briton Ferry, Port Talbot, Cymmer, Croeserw, Gwynfi—no matter where it is, there are problems with CIGA. I've brought this to your attention before. What's the Welsh Government doing to ensure that CIGA lives up to its actual obligations and delivers guarantees for those people?
Diolch am eich ateb, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Mae'n bwysig ein bod yn cydnabod y gwaith da sydd wedi bod yn digwydd ar leihau tlodi tanwydd a'r camau sy'n cael eu cymryd i insiwleiddio tai yn benodol. Ond wrth gwrs, ceir problem gyda hynny. Mae llawer o fy etholwyr wedi wynebu heriau inswleiddio waliau ceudod. Maent wedi mynd drwy'r rhaglenni, gyda chefnogaeth Llywodraeth Cymru, gyda busnesau'n dod i mewn, yn gwerthu eu cynnyrch, yn gwneud y gwaith yn y bôn, ac yna gwelant fod ganddynt broblemau yn nes ymlaen. Ac wrth gwrs, dylai CIGA, yr Asiantaeth Gwarantau Inswleiddio Waliau Dwbl, ddiogelu rhag yr holl broblemau hyn. Pa un a ydych yn byw yn Llansawel, Port Talbot, Cymer, Croeserw, Gwynfi—ni waeth ymhle, ceir problemau gyda CIGA. Rwyf wedi tynnu eich sylw at hyn eisoes. Beth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i sicrhau bod CIGA yn cyflawni eu rhwymedigaethau ac yn darparu gwarantau i'r bobl hynny?
Well, the Member will be aware—as you say, you've raised it with me several times in correspondence and we had a very good debate in the Chamber, I think it was at the tail end of last year, around this issue—that the Cavity Insulation Guarantee Agency is an independent body. It provides 25-year guarantees for cavity wall insulation fitted by registered installers in the UK and the Channel Islands. You'll be aware that all the installers are assessed for competence and they have to follow technical guidance for the material used and the best practice guidance. I've had discussions with the UK Government, because I'm aware that there have been concerns, and it is really important that people are able to access the very best advice and hold them to account, and I will continue to do that.
Wel, bydd yr Aelod yn gwybod—fel y dywedwch, rydych wedi codi hyn gyda mi sawl gwaith mewn gohebiaeth a chawsom ddadl dda iawn yn y Siambr, ddiwedd y llynedd, rwy'n credu, ynghylch y mater hwn—fod yr Asiantaeth Gwarantau Inswleiddio Waliau Dwbl yn gorff annibynnol. Maent yn darparu gwarantau 25 mlynedd ar gyfer deunydd inswleiddio waliau ceudod a osodir gan osodwyr cofrestredig yn y DU ac Ynysoedd y Sianel. Fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol fod yr holl osodwyr yn cael eu hasesu i sicrhau eu cymhwysedd ac mae'n rhaid iddynt ddilyn canllawiau technegol ar gyfer y deunydd a ddefnyddir a'r canllawiau arferion gorau. Rwyf wedi cael trafodaethau gyda Llywodraeth y DU, gan fy mod yn ymwybodol o'r pryderon a fu, ac mae'n bwysig iawn fod pobl yn gallu cael mynediad at y cyngor gorau ac yn eu dwyn i gyfrif, a byddaf yn parhau i wneud hynny.
Cabinet Secretary, back in May, I asked you if schemes like Arbed and Nest had contributed to the number of ground- and air-source heat pumps installed in Wales, and can I thank you for writing to me with a bit more information on that? I was a bit surprised to see from your letter, though, that just nine air-source heat pumps were installed through Nest in the six years leading up to 2017 in my region. So, that's over six years—just nine. And the letter goes on to say that ground-source heat pumps have never been an agreed measure for homes under Nest or Arbed. If you're really going to make a difference to Welsh families and, obviously, to cutting carbon emissions, shouldn't these figures be a bit higher by now?
Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, yn ôl ym mis Mai, gofynnais i chi a oedd cynlluniau fel Arbed a Nyth wedi cyfrannu at nifer y pympiau gwres o'r ddaear a phympiau gwres o'r aer sydd wedi'u gosod yng Nghymru, ac a gaf fi ddiolch i chi am ysgrifennu ataf gyda mwy o wybodaeth ar hynny? Roeddwn yn synnu braidd wrth weld o'ch llythyr, fodd bynnag, mai naw pwmp gwres o'r aer yn unig a osodwyd drwy Nyth yn y chwe blynedd hyd at 2017 yn fy rhanbarth i. Felly, mae hynny dros chwe blynedd—naw yn unig. Ac mae'r llythyr yn mynd ymlaen i ddweud na fu pympiau gwres o'r ddaear erioed yn fesur a gytunwyd ar gyfer cartrefi o dan Nyth neu Arbed. Os ydych yn mynd i wneud gwahaniaeth go iawn i deuluoedd yng Nghymru, ac yn amlwg, o ran torri allyriadau carbon, oni ddylai'r ffigurau hyn fod ychydig bach yn uwch bellach?
I think we certainly need to look at new technologies and new innovations going forward, and we've just procured for the next stage of our Warm Homes programmes. I was in front of the environment committee last week, alongside my colleague Rebecca Evans, around work in this area, and I do think it would be good if we could see an increase in these numbers. I will certainly keep Members updated on the way forward.
Credaf, yn sicr, fod angen inni edrych ar dechnolegau newydd a datblygiadau arloesol newydd yn y dyfodol, ac rydym newydd gwblhau'r broses gaffael ar gyfer cam nesaf ein rhaglen Cartrefi Clyd. Bûm gerbron y pwyllgor amgylchedd yr wythnos diwethaf, gyda fy nghyd-Ysgrifennydd Rebecca Evans, mewn perthynas â gwaith yn y maes hwn, a chredaf y byddai'n dda pe gallem weld cynnydd yn y niferoedd hyn. Byddaf yn sicr yn rhoi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Aelodau wrth symud ymlaen.
Roeddwn i eisiau gofyn cwestiwn ynglŷn â pha drafodaethau yr ydych chi wedi eu cael â'r Gweinidog tai ynglŷn â cheisio gwneud tai cymdeithasol a thai cyngor yn fwy adnewyddadwy o ran ynni adnewyddadwy. A fyddai modd i chi, er enghraifft, ddweud bod angen i gynghorau gwneud hyn a hyn o waith i wneud eu tai yn fwy cynaliadwy cyn iddyn nhw gael mwy o arian grant gennych chi fel Llywodraeth? Rydym ni'n gwybod bod yna enghreifftiau ar draws Cymru o gynghorau sydd yn gwneud gwaith da yn y ardal yma sydd wedyn yn gallu cael effaith dda ar filiau tenantiaid ar ddiwedd y dydd—bydd yna lai o arian iddyn nhw ei dalu ar eu biliau yn hynny o beth. Felly, pa waith blaengar ydych chi'n ei wneud yn y maes yma?
I wanted to ask a question about what discussions you’ve had with the housing Minister about trying to make social housing and council homes more energy efficient and better in this regard. Do you believe that councils need to be told that they need to do a certain level of work to make their homes more sustainable before they receive further grant funding from you as a Government? I know that there are examples throughout Wales of councils that are carrying out good work in this area, which can then have a positive impact on the bills of the tenants, ultimately—they would have to spend less money on their bills as a result. So, what progressive work are you doing in this area?
Thank you. I have had discussions with the Minister for Housing and Regeneration on this issue, particularly in relation to our decarbonisation targets, because, obviously, this is one area that will help us to reach our targets. You're quite right; there are some councils that have real best practice in this area. As to whether we should be making them do things that make houses more sustainable before we give them grants, I don't think we've had specific discussions about that, but it's something I'm very happy to look at with her.
Diolch. Rwyf wedi cael trafodaethau gyda'r Gweinidog Tai ac Adfywio ynghylch y mater hwn, yn enwedig mewn perthynas â'n targedau datgarboneiddio, oherwydd, yn amlwg, mae hwn yn un maes a fydd o gymorth inni gyflawni ein targedau. Rydych yn llygad eich lle; mae gan rai cynghorau arferion gorau go iawn yn y maes hwn. Ynglŷn ag a ddylem fod yn eu gorfodi i wneud pethau sy'n gwneud tai yn fwy cynaliadwy cyn rhoi grantiau iddynt, ni chredaf ein bod wedi cael trafodaethau penodol ynglŷn â hynny, ond mae'n rhywbeth rwy'n fwy na pharod i edrych arno gyda hi.
4. A wnaiff Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet amlinellu cynlluniau Llywodraeth Cymru i wella ffyrdd o warchod anifeiliaid anwes? OAQ52499
4. Will the Cabinet Secretary outline the Welsh Government's plans to improve the protection of companion animals? OAQ52499
Thank you. The Wales animal health and welfare framework implementation plan sets out the framework group and Welsh Government priorities for animal health and welfare. I set out my plans to maintain and improve companion animal welfare in Wales in my oral statement last month.
Diolch. Mae cynllun gweithredu fframwaith iechyd a lles anifeiliaid Cymru yn nodi'r grŵp fframwaith a blaenoriaethau Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer iechyd a lles anifeiliaid. Amlinellais fy nghynlluniau i gynnal a gwella lles anifeiliaid anwes yng Nghymru yn fy natganiad llafar y mis diwethaf.
Thank you, and it's because of your oral statement that I'm asking this question. You will know that, in that statement, you've indicated that you're not minded to introduce an animal abuse register for Wales, based on the fact that there isn't enough UK evidence. Well, the whole point of you initiating this was to create an evidence base in this country. We know that there's international evidence to support an animal abuse register, looking at examples from the United States of America. Is this a block on ambition from the Government, or is there something else that I'm not aware of? It's very, very hard for us to make an assessment on your statement without having that report in front of us. The time is ticking for the report that you've said you would give to us by the end of term. I'd really like to be able to see that, to understand your logic, because I do feel that, if you don't put this forward, it is a missed opportunity, and we could have been leaders in this field.
Diolch, ac rwy'n gofyn y cwestiwn hwn oherwydd eich datganiad llafar. Fel y gwyddoch, yn y datganiad hwnnw fe nodoch chi nad ydych yn bwriadu cyflwyno cofrestr cam-drin anifeiliaid ar gyfer Cymru, ar sail y ffaith nad oes digon o dystiolaeth ar gyfer y DU. Wel, holl bwynt rhoi hyn ar waith oedd creu sylfaen dystiolaeth yn y wlad hon. Gwyddom fod tystiolaeth ryngwladol i gefnogi cofrestr cam-drin anifeiliaid, o edrych ar enghreifftiau o Unol Daleithiau America. A yw'r Llywodraeth yn rhwystro uchelgais, neu a oes rhywbeth arall nad wyf yn ymwybodol ohono? Mae'n anodd iawn i ni wneud asesiad o'ch datganiad heb fod yr adroddiad hwnnw o'n blaenau. Mae'r cloc yn tician ar yr adroddiad y dywedasoch wrthym y byddech yn ei roi inni erbyn diwedd y tymor. Buaswn wrth fy modd yn ei weld, i ddeall eich rhesymeg, gan fy mod yn teimlo, os nad ydych yn ei gyflwyno, bydd yn gyfle a gollwyd, a gallem fod wedi bod yn arweinwyr yn y maes hwn.
I mentioned that I'd just had the report when I made the statement in the Chamber last month. I've now had the opportunity to consider it in great detail. As I say, they make it very clear that the development of a register is not really recommended at this time. There are many other actions that I think are worthy of further work, but I have asked officials—you know, I've raised several questions on the report, and I've asked officials to look at it, and I will, as promised, make sure that I share it before the end of term, which gives me a week.
Soniais fy mod newydd gael yr adroddiad pan wneuthum y datganiad yn y Siambr fis diwethaf. Rwyf wedi cael cyfle bellach i'w ystyried yn fanwl iawn. Fel y dywedaf, maent yn dweud yn glir iawn na argymhellir datblygu cofrestr ar hyn o bryd. Ceir nifer o gamau gweithredu eraill sy'n haeddu rhagor o waith yn fy marn i, ond rwyf wedi gofyn i swyddogion—rwyf wedi codi sawl cwestiwn ar yr adroddiad, ac rwyf wedi gofyn i swyddogion edrych arno, a byddaf, fel yr addewais, yn sicrhau fy mod yn ei rannu cyn diwedd y tymor, sy'n rhoi wythnos i mi.
One week. [Laughter.]
Un wythnos. [Chwerthin.]
In that statement, you said that people should think through very carefully the responsibilities they're undertaking when they're thinking of having a pet. But I'm glad to hear you say also that you recognise that people's circumstances can change quite suddenly and through no fault of their own. Cats Protection is reporting a rise in the number of cats coming to them because landlords, some of them, are reluctant to accept cats, and, similarly, residential homes as well, and in both these cases it's quite often older cats that are either, sadly, abandoned or taken to a shelter and, of course, are more difficult to re-home. We know that pets contribute to both mental and physical well-being, so what kind of conversations are you having with landlords and the care home sector to see whether pets and their people can be kept together? Thank you.
Yn y datganiad hwnnw, dywedasoch y dylai pobl feddwl yn ofalus iawn am y cyfrifoldebau y maent yn eu hysgwyddo pan fyddant yn ystyried cael anifail anwes. Ond rwy'n falch o'ch clywed yn dweud hefyd eich bod yn cydnabod y gall amgylchiadau pobl newid ar fyr rybudd a heb fod unrhyw fai arnynt hwy eu hunain. Mae Cats Protection yn nodi cynnydd yn nifer y cathod y maent yn eu derbyn am fod landlordiaid, rai ohonynt, yn gyndyn o ganiatáu cathod, a chartrefi preswyl hefyd yn yr un modd, ac yn y ddau achos, yn aml iawn, cathod hŷn sydd naill ai'n cael eu gadael neu'n cael eu rhoi mewn lloches, yn anffodus, ac wrth gwrs, mae'n anos ailgartrefu cathod hŷn. Gwyddom fod anifeiliaid anwes yn cyfrannu at les corfforol a meddyliol, felly pa fath o sgyrsiau rydych yn eu cael gyda landlordiaid a'r sector cartrefi gofal i weld a ellir cadw pobl a'u hanifeiliaid anwes gyda'i gilydd? Diolch.
I haven't had any specific discussions with either of those sectors, but I think you raise an important point. When you say about older animals, obviously, if somebody is going into residential care, it's probably likely that they will have had their pet for a considerable number of years. So, it can be incredibly upsetting for both parties. So, I think it is something that we do need to look at. I will make sure that I do start to have those conversations and will write to the Member in due course.
Nid wyf wedi cael unrhyw drafodaethau penodol gyda'r naill na'r llall o'r sectorau hynny, ond credaf eich bod yn codi pwynt pwysig. Pan soniwch am anifeiliaid hŷn, yn amlwg, os yw rhywun yn mynd i ofal preswyl, mae'n debygol eu bod wedi bod yn berchen ar eu hanifail anwes ers blynyddoedd lawer. Felly, gall beri gofid mawr i'r ddwy ochr. Felly, credaf fod hyn yn rhywbeth y mae angen inni ei ystyried. Byddaf yn sicrhau fy mod yn dechrau cael y sgyrsiau hynny a byddaf yn ysgrifennu at yr Aelod maes o law.
5. Yn dilyn penderfyniad Llywodraeth y DU i beidio â chefnogi morlyn llanw bae Abertawe, pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru'n eu cymryd i annog a chefnogi cynlluniau cynhyrchu ynni yng Nghymru? OAQ52490
5. Following the UK Government's decision not to back the Swansea bay tidal lagoon, what action is the Welsh Government taking to encourage and support energy production schemes in Wales? OAQ52490
Wales has the potential to create significant new low-carbon generation, which could provide economic and social benefits. Welsh Government policies and support mechanisms have created a positive environment for developing new energy generation. Our focus now is on ensuring Wales benefits over the long term from any further development.
Mae gan Gymru botensial i greu cryn dipyn o gynlluniau cynhyrchu carbon isel newydd, a allai ddarparu manteision economaidd a chymdeithasol. Mae polisïau a mecanweithiau cymorth Llywodraeth Cymru wedi creu amgylchedd cadarnhaol ar gyfer datblygu ffyrdd newydd o gynhyrchu ynni. Rydym yn canolbwyntio bellach ar sicrhau bod Cymru'n elwa yn y tymor hir o unrhyw ddatblygiad pellach.
Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. We now know that the UK Government based their decision upon inaccurate figures, understating the true benefit and cost of the Swansea bay tidal lagoon. An audit undertaken by the Centre for Economics and Business Research shows that the six proposed lagoons would only be slightly more expensive than Hinkley C. Cabinet Secretary, in light of this revelation, will you be demanding that the UK Government re-evaluate the proposal for Swansea bay?
Diolch, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Gwyddom bellach fod Llywodraeth y DU wedi gwneud eu penderfyniad ar sail ffigurau anghywir, a oedd yn tanddatgan gwir fudd a chost morlyn llanw bae Abertawe. Dengys archwiliad a wnaed gan y Ganolfan Ymchwil Economeg a Busnes mai ychydig bach yn ddrytach yn unig a fyddai'r chwe morlyn arfaethedig na Hinkley C. Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, yng ngoleuni hyn, a fyddwch yn mynnu bod Llywodraeth y DU yn ailwerthuso'r cynnig ar gyfer bae Abertawe?
I know the UK Government has now published a summary of its value-for-money assessment, and as I mentioned in an earlier answer, we're now reviewing that, and I think it depends what conclusions we come to from that as to what action we take. It did suggest the proposed tidal lagoon at Swansea bay would have a capital cost of more than three times as much per unit of electricity as the Hinkley Point C nuclear power station. So, I think these are figures that we need to look in depth at, and I'm sure we will have a view, and then we can decide on what action we want to take.
Gwn fod Llywodraeth y DU bellach wedi cyhoeddi crynodeb o'i hasesiad gwerth am arian, ac fel y dywedais mewn ateb cynharach, rydym yn ei adolygu ar hyn o bryd, a chredaf fod y camau y byddwn yn eu cymryd yn dibynnu ar ein casgliadau yn sgil hynny. Awgrymodd y byddai cost cyfalaf y morlyn llanw arfaethedig ym mae Abertawe dair gwaith yn fwy fesul uned o drydan na gorsaf bŵer niwclear Hinkley Point C. Credaf, felly, fod y rhain yn ffigurau y mae angen inni eu harchwilio yn fanwl, ac rwy'n siŵr y bydd gennym safbwynt, ac yna gallwn benderfynu ar ba gamau rydym am eu cymryd.
The Westminster Government seems to have an energy policy based upon offshore wind and nuclear power. As prototypes are by their very nature more expensive, and the future storage costs of nuclear are capped—we would never have had a nuclear power station built if they weren't capped—it is not a level playing field. Did the Westminster Government explain why the price for nuclear—which, as we all know, is an over-60-year-old technology—was acceptable, but the same price, which was the final offer of the same strike price for the tidal lagoon as for Hinkley, was not acceptable? Have the Westminster Government explained why one is acceptable and one isn't, when one's a prototype and one's a 60-year-old technology with a capped final cost?
Ymddengys bod gan Lywodraeth San Steffan bolisi ynni sy'n seiliedig ar ynni gwynt ar y môr ac ynni niwclear. Gan fod prototeipiau yn ddrytach oherwydd eu natur, a bod cap ar gostau storio ynni niwclear yn y dyfodol—ni fyddai gorsaf bŵer niwclear erioed wedi cael ei hadeiladu pe na baent wedi eu capio—nid yw'n deg cymharu'r ddau beth. A esboniodd Llywodraeth San Steffan pam fod y pris ar gyfer ynni niwclear—sydd, fel y gŵyr pob un ohonom, yn dechnoleg sydd dros 60 mlwydd oed—yn dderbyniol, ond nad oedd yr un pris, sef y cynnig terfynol o'r un pris streic ar gyfer morlyn llanw ag ar gyfer Hinkley, yn dderbyniol? A yw Llywodraeth San Steffan wedi esbonio pam fod un yn dderbyniol ac nid y llall, pan fo un yn brototeip a'r llall yn dechnoleg 60 mlwydd oed gyda chost derfynol wedi'i chapio?
No, and I think that's a very important point that you raise. I've just mentioned in my answer to Caroline Jones that we are looking at that summary value-for-money assessment now. I think you're right; their policy does seem to focus on just offshore and nuclear power. Of course, nuclear power, whilst being low carbon, is certainly not renewable energy. I've had discussions with Claire Perry, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, around this, and about the need to encourage further onshore wind, and certainly solar power, too. I've also written to Greg Clark following the decision around the importance of making sure that we engage and support other renewable energy technologies.
Nac ydynt, a chredaf eich bod yn codi pwynt pwysig iawn. Rwyf newydd grybwyll, yn fy ateb i Caroline Jones, ein bod yn edrych ar y crynodeb o'r asesiad gwerth am arian ar hyn o bryd. Credaf eich bod yn llygad eich lle; ymddengys bod eu polisi ond yn canolbwyntio ar ynni gwynt ar y môr ac ynni niwclear yn unig. Wrth gwrs, nid yw ynni niwclear, er ei fod yn garbon isel, yn ynni adnewyddadwy o gwbl. Rwyf wedi cael trafodaethau gyda Claire Perry, yr Is-Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Seneddol, ynglŷn â hyn, ac ynglŷn â'r angen i annog mwy o ynni gwynt ar y tir, ac yn sicr ynni'r haul, hefyd. Rwyf hefyd wedi ysgrifennu at Greg Clark yn dilyn y penderfyniad ynghylch pwysigrwydd sicrhau ein bod yn defnyddio ac yn cefnogi technolegau ynni adnewyddadwy eraill.
Both Caroline Jones and Mike Hedges have made some very valid and important points when it comes to the Swansea tidal lagoon, and Welsh Conservatives have been clear that we hope that there can be a way forward found for that project. I appreciate that this is a setback, but the Welsh Government certainly have our support in finding alternative ways in the future to progress the project.
Of course, there are smaller scale schemes as well across Wales that are going ahead. You may be aware of Prosiect Gwyrdd in my constituency—I hope I pronounced that right—which is actually a collaboration between the five councils in south-east Wales, including Monmouthshire, that seeks the most cost-effective and environmentally friendly way to deal with residual waste that cannot be recycled or composted, but that can be burnt to produce steam and provide energy. Would you agree with me that this is a great example of collaboration between local authorities, Cabinet Secretary, and also a great way to deal with waste that cannot be dealt with in an otherwise environmentally friendly way? What are you doing to extend these types of projects, and to roll them out across the rest of Wales?
Mae Caroline Jones a Mike Hedges wedi gwneud pwyntiau dilys a phwysig iawn mewn perthynas â morlyn llanw Abertawe, ac mae'r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig wedi datgan yn glir ein bod yn gobeithio y gellir dod o hyd i ffordd ymlaen ar gyfer y prosiect hwnnw. Rwy'n derbyn bod hyn yn siom, ond yn sicr, rydym yn cefnogi Llywodraeth Cymru i ddod o hyd i ffyrdd amgen yn y dyfodol o fwrw ymlaen â'r prosiect.
Wrth gwrs, mae cynlluniau llai yn mynd rhagddynt ledled Cymru hefyd. Efallai eich bod yn ymwybodol o'r Prosiect Gwyrdd yn fy etholaeth—gobeithio fy mod yn ei ynganu'n iawn—sef cydweithrediad rhwng y pum cyngor yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru, gan gynnwys sir Fynwy, sy'n ceisio dod o hyd i'r ffordd fwyaf costeffeithiol ac ecogyfeillgar o ymdrin â gwastraff gweddilliol na ellir ei ailgylchu neu ei gompostio, ond y gellir ei losgi i gynhyrchu ager a darparu ynni. A fyddech yn cytuno â mi fod hon yn enghraifft wych o gydweithredu rhwng awdurdodau lleol, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, a hefyd yn ffordd wych o ymdrin â gwastraff na ellir ei drin mewn ffordd ecogyfeillgar? Beth rydych yn ei wneud i ymestyn y mathau hyn o brosiectau, a'u rhoi ar waith ledled gweddill Cymru?
Yes, I would agree with you. It's good to see collaboration at that scale between the five local authorities. It's really important that we get a mix of energy, and certainly community energy projects. I've seen some fantastic ones right across Wales. You'll also be aware—I think it's in your constituency; it's certainly Monmouthshire council—of the big solar farm that they've got there. We loaned, I think, about £4 million from Welsh Government. So, I think it is really good to see local authorities collaborating, coming up with innovative technologies to help us, again, make sure we reach our carbon targets.
Ydw, rwy'n cytuno â chi. Mae'n dda gweld cydweithredu ar y raddfa honno rhwng y pum awdurdod lleol. Mae'n bwysig iawn fod gennym gymysgedd o ynni, ac yn sicr, prosiectau ynni cymunedol. Rwyf wedi gweld rhai aruthrol ledled Cymru. Fe fyddwch yn gwybod hefyd—credaf ei bod yn eich etholaeth chi; mae'n sicr o dan gyngor sir Fynwy—am y fferm solar fawr sydd ganddynt yno. Cawsom fenthyg oddeutu £4 miliwn, rwy'n credu, gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Felly, credaf ei bod yn wych gweld awdurdodau lleol yn cydweithredu, gan ddatblygu technolegau arloesol i'n cynorthwyo, unwaith eto, i sicrhau ein bod yn cyflawni ein targedau carbon.
6. A wnaiff Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ddatganiad am ymgynghoriad Llywodraeth Cymru ar y cynnig i gyfuno ac adolygu is-ddeddfwriaeth dosbarthiadau defnydd a datblygu cyffredinol a ganiateir? OAQ52507
6. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on the Welsh Government's consultation on the proposal to consolidate and review subordinate legislation on use classes and general permitted development? OAQ52507
Diolch. The consultation, informed by research, proposes updating the use classes Order, particularly for retail uses. It includes complementary changes to permitted development rights and proposes new rights to support the roll-out of electric car charging, next generation telecommunications networks and renewable energy development, without the need for a planning application.
Diolch. Mae'r ymgynghoriad, sy'n cael ei lywio gan ymchwil, yn cynnig diweddaru'r Gorchymyn dosbarthiadau defnydd, yn enwedig at ddefnydd manwerthu. Mae'n cynnwys newidiadau ategol i hawliau datblygu a ganiateir ac yn argymell hawliau newydd i gefnogi'r broses o gyflwyno pwyntiau gwefru ceir trydan, rhwydweithiau telathrebu'r genhedlaeth nesaf a datblygu ynni adnewyddadwy, heb fod angen cais cynllunio.
Mi fyddwch chi'n ymwybodol mai Gwynedd ydy'r ardal efo'r mwyaf o ail gartrefi ym Mhrydain, tua 5,000 i gyd. O ganlyniad, mae pobl leol yn cael eu prisio allan o'r farchnad dai, gan achosi argyfwng mewn nifer o gymunedau. Gan fod Llywodraeth Cymru wrthi'n ymgynghori ar ddiwygio is-ddeddfwriaeth cynllunio, sy'n cynnwys y rheolau yn ymwneud â dosbarthiadau defnydd, a'r gofynion ar gyfer newid defnydd, a fyddwch chi'n fodlon edrych ar y mater o ddefnyddio'r drefn gynllunio i geisio rheoli ychydig ar y farchnad tai haf? Wrth lunio'r cynigion drafft, a wnaethoch chi ystyried y posibilrwydd o gyflwyno gofyniad a fyddai'n golygu bod angen caniatâd cynllunio cyn i dai annedd gael eu defnyddio neu eu trosi yn ail gartrefi? A wnewch chi ymrwymo i edrych ar hyn ac i weithredu ar hynny wrth lunio'ch cynigion terfynol, fel ffordd o reoli prisiau'r farchnad dai? Diolch.
You will be aware that Gwynedd is the area with the largest number of second homes in Wales, some 5,000 in total. As a result, local people are priced out of the housing market, causing a crisis in many communities. As the Welsh Government is currently consulting on reforming subordinate legislation in planning, which includes the rules in terms of use classes and the requirement for change of use, would you be willing to look at the issue of using the planning system to try and control the second home market? In drawing up the draft proposals, did you consider the possibility of introducing a requirement that you would need planning permission before residences could be used or transferred into second homes? And will you commit to look at this and to take action in drawing up your final proposals as a means of managing prices within the housing market?
Thank you. I think the Welsh Government has provided an alternative means of addressing the issues associated with second homes. You'll be aware of the Housing (Wales) Act 2014. We've provided local authorities in Wales with discretionary powers around council tax premiums, for instance. We also need to be very mindful—bearing in mind your question—we need to be very mindful, I think, of unintended financial consequences of introducing a new use class. I would not want to increase the value of existing second homes and then reduce the value of homes that aren't second homes, because I think that would be an unintended consequence.
Diolch. Credaf fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi darparu dull amgen o fynd i'r afael â'r materion sy'n gysylltiedig ag ail gartrefi. Fe fyddwch yn gwybod am Ddeddf Tai (Cymru) 2014. Rydym wedi darparu pwerau disgresiwn i awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru mewn perthynas â phremiymau'r dreth gyngor, er enghraifft. Mae angen inni fod yn ystyriol iawn hefyd—o gofio eich cwestiwn—mae angen inni fod yn ystyriol iawn, yn fy marn i, o ganlyniadau ariannol anfwriadol yn sgil cyflwyno dosbarth defnydd newydd. Ni fuaswn yn dymuno cynyddu gwerth presennol ail gartrefi gan leihau gwerth cartrefi nad ydynt yn ail gartrefi, gan y credaf y byddai hwnnw'n ganlyniad anfwriadol.
Cabinet Secretary, can I welcome that part of the consultation that proposes the restructuring of the use class system to provide further protection for pubs in a manner similar to that in England? We've lost something like 17 per cent of our pubs since the year 2000. In England, there's a further protection in the planning system whereby a pause is placed on the disposal of assets that are of value to the community, a scheme known more commonly as the community right to buy. Do you think a similar sort of system ought to be introduced to Wales as part of this scheme?
Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, a gaf fi groesawu'r rhan honno o'r ymgynghoriad sy'n cynnig ailstrwythuro'r system dosbarth defnydd i ddarparu mwy o amddiffyniadau i dafarndai mewn ffordd debyg i'r hyn a wneir yn Lloegr? Rydym wedi colli oddeutu 17 y cant o'n tafarndai ers y flwyddyn 2000. Yn Lloegr, ceir amddiffyniadau pellach yn y system gynllunio lle rhoddir saib ar y broses o gael gwared ar asedau sydd o werth i'r gymuned, cynllun sy'n fwy adnabyddus fel hawl y gymuned i brynu. A ydych o'r farn y dylid cyflwyno system debyg yng Nghymru fel rhan o'r cynllun hwn?
David Melding points out that the consultation proposes legislative changes to help prevent the change of use or demolition of a pub without first obtaining planning permission. Certainly, once the consultation is finished—I've extended the consultation by about five weeks, I think—we can see if those sorts of proposals have come forward.
Mae David Melding yn nodi bod yr ymgynghoriad yn cynnig newidiadau deddfwriaethol i helpu i atal newid defnydd neu ddymchwel tafarn heb gael caniatâd cynllunio yn gyntaf. Yn sicr, pan ddaw'r ymgynghoriad i ben—rwyf wedi ymestyn yr ymgynghoriad am oddeutu pum wythnos, rwy'n credu—gallwn weld a fydd cynigion o'r fath yn cael eu cyflwyno.
7. Pa gamau y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru'n eu cymryd dros y 12 mis nesaf i gefnogi ffermwyr yng ngorllewin Cymru? OAQ52476
7. What steps will the Welsh Government take in the next 12 months to support farmers in west Wales? OAQ52476
Thank you. The 'Brexit and our land' consultation is live until 30 October. It contains proposals to enable farmers and other land managers to adapt from current to future arrangements, for the next 12 months and beyond. I urge everyone who depends on rural Wales for their business or well-being to get involved.
Diolch. Mae'r ymgynghoriad 'Brexit a'n tir' ar agor tan 30 Hydref. Mae'n cynnwys cynigion i alluogi ffermwyr a rheolwyr tir eraill i addasu o'r trefniadau presennol i'r trefniadau newydd, ar gyfer y 12 mis nesaf a thu hwnt. Anogaf bawb sy'n dibynnu ar y Gymru wledig ar gyfer eu busnes neu eu lles i gymryd rhan.
Cabinet Secretary, I've recently met with farmers in my constituency who continue to feel frustrated and indeed angry that, despite being under more measures and restrictions than ever before, the Welsh Government have yet to seriously tackle bovine TB in a holistic way. In light of their concerns, can you confirm that the Welsh Government will be focusing its efforts in the next 12 months on tackling this disease in the wildlife reservoir as well as in cattle? Can you also confirm that the Welsh Government has provided sufficient resources to this area for this work to be carried out?
Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, cyfarfûm yn ddiweddar â ffermwyr yn fy etholaeth sy'n dal i deimlo'n rhwystredig ac yn ddig oherwydd, er eu bod o dan fwy o fesurau a chyfyngiadau nag erioed o'r blaen, nid yw Llywodraeth Cymru wedi mynd i'r afael go iawn â TB buchol mewn dull cyfannol o hyd. O ystyried eu pryderon, a allwch gadarnhau y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn canolbwyntio ei hymdrechion dros y 12 mis nesaf ar fynd i'r afael â'r clefyd hwn mewn bywyd gwyllt yn ogystal â mewn gwartheg? A allwch gadarnhau hefyd fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi darparu adnoddau digonol i'r maes hwn i sicrhau bod y gwaith yn cael ei gwblhau?
Yes, I can certainly say that there are sufficient resources for this work to be carried out. We're now nine months into our refreshed TB eradication programme. I launched it back in October last year. I think we are making progress, but we want to make sure we've got the most meaningful disease statistics so that I can provide a complete picture in relation to the disease. I'm going to make a statement on the progress of that programme. I want to have a complete year. I said I would do an annual statement, and I want to have a complete year, so I'm going to use January to December this year as the complete year. So, I will be doing a statement early next year in relation to that. But I do think it is important to recognise that we are making significant progress.
Gallaf ddweud yn sicr fod digon o adnoddau i sicrhau bod y gwaith yn cael ei gwblhau. Rydym bellach naw mis i mewn i'n rhaglen i ddileu TB ar ei newydd wedd. Fe'i lansiwyd gennyf ym mis Hydref y llynedd. Credaf ein bod yn gwneud cynnydd, ond rydym yn awyddus i sicrhau bod gennym yr ystadegau clefyd mwyaf ystyrlon fel y gallaf roi darlun cyflawn o'r clefyd. Byddaf yn gwneud datganiad ar gynnydd y rhaglen honno. Rwyf am gael blwyddyn gyflawn. Dywedais y buaswn yn gwneud datganiad blynyddol, ac rwyf am gael blwyddyn gyflawn, felly byddaf yn defnyddio rhwng mis Ionawr a mis Rhagfyr eleni fel blwyddyn gyflawn. Felly, byddaf yn rhoi datganiad yn gynnar y flwyddyn nesaf mewn perthynas â hynny. Ond credaf ei bod yn bwysig cydnabod ein bod yn gwneud cynnydd sylweddol.
Mae'n amlwg o fynd o gwmpas cefn gwlad Cymru ar hyn o bryd pa mor sych yw'r ddaear; mae pethau'n hesb iawn. Rydych chi wedi cyhoeddi eich bod chi'n barod i ryddhau rhai o ymrwymiadau Glastir er mwyn cynorthwyo ffermwyr i ddelio gyda'r tywydd yma. Pe bai'r tywydd yn parhau—a dyma'r cyfle olaf, wrth gwrs, i chi gerbron y Cynulliad cyn toriad yr haf—pe bai'r tywydd yn parhau a bod diffyg dŵr a diffyg glaw, a oes yna gamau pellach y medrwch chi eu cymryd i wneud yn siŵr nad yw unrhyw reolau biwrocrataidd yn rhwystro ffermwyr rhag gwneud y peth iawn ar gyfer y ddaear, ac ar gyfer unrhyw anifeiliaid yn ogystal? A wnewch chi fod mor hyblyg ag sy'n bosibl, yn wyneb y ffaith ein bod ni o bosibl yn mynd i gael haf arbennig o sych?
It’s obvious, going around rural Wales, how dry the ground is; things are very much affected by the weather. Now, you’ve already said that you will relax some of the Glastir requirements to assist farmers to deal with this weather. Should this weather continue—and this is the final opportunity to ask you before summer recess—if this weather does continue, and there is a lack of rain, are there any other steps or actions that you can take to ensure that no bureaucratic rules stop farmers from doing the right thing for the ground, and also for their stock? And can you be as flexible as possible, given that we may have a particularly dry summer?
You're quite right; we have relaxed regulations. I thought it was very important. I've also asked officials this week to have a look at what protocol we have in place in relation to water. I certainly will be as flexible as I possibly can be, because we just don't know for how much longer—although it looked very black before, and I know a lot of people are praying for rain—but, certainly, my intention is to be as flexible as I possibly can be.
Rydych yn llygad eich lle; rydym wedi llacio'r rheoliadau. Roeddwn yn meddwl ei bod yn bwysig iawn gwneud hynny. Yr wythnos hon, rwyf hefyd wedi gofyn i swyddogion edrych ar ba brotocol sydd gennym ar waith mewn perthynas â dŵr. Yn sicr, byddaf mor hyblyg ag y gallaf fod, gan na wyddom am faint yn rhagor—er ei bod yn edrych yn dywyll iawn yn gynharach, a gwn fod llawer o bobl yn gweddïo am law—ond yn sicr, fy mwriad yw bod mor hyblyg ag y gallaf fod.
8. Pa drafodaethau diweddar y mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet wedi'u cael ynghylch cynigion amgen ar gyfer cynhyrchu ynni yng Nghymru? OAQ52489
8. What recent discussions has the Cabinet Secretary had regarding alternative proposals for energy production in Wales? OAQ52489
Thank you. I and my colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport frequently meet with UK and other Ministers, developers and regulators to discuss energy opportunities. Most recently, I attended the British-Irish Council ministerial meeting on energy in Edinburgh, where I had positive discussions with Ministers from all eight administrations.
Diolch. Mae fy nghyd-Aelod, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth a minnau'n cyfarfod yn aml â Gweinidogion y DU a Gweinidogion eraill, datblygwyr a rheoleiddwyr i drafod cyfleoedd ynni. Yn fwyaf diweddar, mynychais gyfarfod o Weinidogion y Cyngor Prydeinig-Gwyddelig ar ynni yng Nghaeredin, lle y cefais drafodaethau cadarnhaol gyda Gweinidogion o'r wyth gweinyddiaeth.
Cabinet Secretary, Wales needs a true mix of energy production if we are to combat climate change and ensure energy security. One of the biggest challenges for renewables is the unpredictability of production. Over the last few weeks, we have produced far more solar energy than needed, and as a result it has been wasted. We need to find better ways to store energy. So, Cabinet Secretary, what is your Government doing to encourage more research into energy capture and storage, and have you considered working with companies such as Tesla, who are leading the field in this type of research?
Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, mae angen cymysgedd go iawn o ddulliau cynhyrchu ynni ar Gymru os ydym am fynd i'r afael â newid yn yr hinsawdd a diogelu ffynonellau ynni. Un o'r heriau mwyaf ar gyfer ynni adnewyddadwy yw natur anrhagweladwy cynhyrchiant. Dros yr ychydig wythnosau diwethaf, rydym wedi cynhyrchu mwy o lawer o ynni solar nag sydd ei angen, ac o ganlyniad, mae wedi'i wastraffu. Mae angen inni ddod o hyd i ffyrdd gwell o storio ynni. Felly, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, beth y mae eich Llywodraeth yn ei wneud i annog mwy o ymchwil i ddal a storio ynni, ac a ydych wedi ystyried gweithio gyda chwmnïau fel Tesla, sydd ar y blaen yn y math hwn o ymchwil?
I'm not sure how it's being wasted; I'd be very interested in having information as to why Caroline Jones thinks it's being wasted. Certainly, capture and storage is very important, and we're doing significant work around research in this area, because you're quite right; we do need to have a true mix of all types of renewable energy, and storage in particular is becoming very important going forward.
Nid wyf yn siŵr sut y mae'n cael ei wastraffu; hoffwn glywed pam y cred Caroline Jones ei fod yn cael ei wastraffu. Yn sicr, mae dal a storio ynni yn bwysig iawn, ac rydym yn gwneud cryn dipyn o waith ymchwil yn y maes hwn, oherwydd rydych yn llygad eich lle; mae arnom angen cymysgedd gwirioneddol o bob math o ynni adnewyddadwy, ac mae storio, yn enwedig, yn dod yn bwysig iawn wrth symud ymlaen.
A few weeks ago, Cabinet Secretary, you did announce interim targets in the first two carbon budgets for Wales, and you said you'd consult on an action plan to achieve them in July. Can you say any more about this action plan, and the role of renewable energy in achieving it?
Ychydig wythnosau'n ôl, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, fe gyhoeddoch chi dargedau interim yn y ddwy gyllideb garbon gyntaf ar gyfer Cymru, ac fe ddywedoch y byddech yn ymgynghori ar gynllun gweithredu i'w cyflawni ym mis Gorffennaf. A allwch ddweud rhagor am y cynllun gweithredu hwn, a rôl ynni adnewyddadwy yn ei gyflawni?
Yes, certainly. The consultation will be launched tomorrow. I will be issuing a written statement to Assembly Members, and it includes action up to 2030 to allow stakeholders to be involved in the development of our actions. And certainly, if we are going to achieve our 2050 target, we do need to take some very long-term actions. Renewable energy has a very important role in meeting our decarbonisation target, and that's why I did set those very ambitious targets for energy generation. However, we need to take action in all sectors, and given the importance of decarbonisation and the scale of the challenge that we face, yesterday Cabinet agreed that we would add decarbonisation as a sixth priority area in 'Prosperity for All' cross-Government working.
Gallaf, yn sicr. Bydd yr ymgynghoriad yn cael ei lansio yfory. Byddaf yn cyhoeddi datganiad ysgrifenedig i Aelodau'r Cynulliad, ac mae'n cynnwys camau gweithredu hyd at 2030 i alluogi rhanddeiliaid i gymryd rhan yn natblygiad ein gweithredoedd. Ac yn sicr, os ydym am gyrraedd ein targed ar gyfer 2050, mae angen inni gymryd rhai camau gweithredu hirdymor iawn. Mae gan ynni adnewyddadwy rôl bwysig iawn i'w chwarae wrth inni gyflawni ein targed datgarboneiddio, a dyna pam y gosodais y targedau uchelgeisiol iawn hynny ar gyfer cynhyrchu ynni. Fodd bynnag, mae angen inni gymryd camau ym mhob sector, ac o ystyried pwysigrwydd datgarboneiddio a maint yr her sy'n ein hwynebu, cytunodd y Cabinet ddoe y byddem yn ychwanegu datgarboneiddio fel chweched maes blaenoriaeth yn y gwaith trawslywodraethol ar 'Ffyniant i Bawb'.
Cabinet Secretary, perhaps I can take you back to lagoons as part of that mix. I asked the First Minister yesterday whether that £200 million we've all been talking about is definitely earmarked for lagoon and marine energy. He didn't answer. I'm picking up from your answers today that there is £200 million there. Bearing in mind that you've already indicated that some of that could be going elsewhere, can you tell me how much you would be prepared to commit to for Swansea, bearing in mind that we've already got the planning permission, the public support and, of course, a whole set of ancillary benefits, many of which are devolved competence, and therefore should be paid for by Welsh Government, or are you asking about whether—? Can I ask you whether there is additional money to expand the whole idea of a mix of renewable energy production?
Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, efallai y caf fynd â chi'n ôl at fôr-lynnoedd fel rhan o'r cymysgedd hwnnw. Gofynnais i'r Prif Weinidog ddoe a yw'r £200 miliwn hwnnw y mae pawb ohonom wedi bod yn sôn amdano wedi'i glustnodi'n bendant ar gyfer ynni môr-lynnoedd ac ynni morol. Ni wnaeth ateb. Rwy'n deall o'ch atebion heddiw fod £200 miliwn i'w gael yno. O gofio eich bod eisoes wedi nodi y gallai rhywfaint o'r arian hwnnw fynd at bethau eraill, a allwch ddweud wrthyf faint y byddech yn barod i'w ymrwymo i Abertawe, o gofio ein bod eisoes wedi cael y caniatâd cynllunio, cefnogaeth y cyhoedd, ac wrth gwrs, set gyfan o fanteision ategol, gyda llawer ohonynt yn feysydd lle mae cymhwysedd wedi'i ddatganoli, ac felly dylai Llywodraeth Cymru fod yn talu amdanynt, neu a ydych yn holi ynglŷn â—? A gaf i ofyn i chi a oes arian ychwanegol i ehangu'r holl syniad o gymysgedd o ddulliau cynhyrchu ynni adnewyddadwy?
I suppose the short answer is: there's always money for really good projects. The £200 million I mentioned in an earlier answer to a colleague—I am having discussions, very early discussions, about with the Cabinet Secretary for Finance. I of course made a case for that—you would expect me to, sitting around the Cabinet table. But we are having this energy summit later on in the year and, I think, probably, when we look at what technologies are coming forward there and what projects are coming forward there, that's when the decisions will be taken and, again, I stress: I think, unless the UK Government have a strategy around tidal lagoons, it's incredibly difficult to see how we can take that forward. I know there have been calls for Welsh Government to take it—we just can't. The UK Government have really, I think, badly let us down in this area.
Mae'n debyg mai'r ateb byr yw: mae arian ar gael bob amser ar gyfer prosiectau da iawn. O ran y £200 miliwn a grybwyllais mewn ateb cynharach i gyd-Aelod—rwy'n cael trafodaethau, trafodaethau cynnar iawn, ynghylch hynny gydag Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Gyllid. Gwneuthum achos dros hynny, wrth gwrs—byddech yn disgwyl i mi wneud hynny wrth eistedd o gwmpas bwrdd y Cabinet. Ond byddwn yn cynnal uwchgynhadledd ynni yn ddiweddarach yn y flwyddyn, ac yn fy marn i, mae'n debyg, pan fyddwn yn edrych ar ba dechnolegau sy'n cael eu cyflwyno yno a pha brosiectau sy'n cael eu cyflwyno yno, dyna pryd y caiff y penderfyniadau eu gwneud, ac unwaith eto, rwy'n pwysleisio: oni bai bod gan Lywodraeth y DU strategaeth ar gyfer môr-lynnoedd llanw, mae'n hynod o anodd gweld sut y gallwn fwrw ymlaen â hynny. Gwn fod galwadau wedi bod ar Lywodraeth Cymru i fwrw ymlaen â hynny—ni allwn wneud hynny. Credaf fod Llywodraeth y DU wedi gwneud tro gwael iawn â ni yn hyn o beth.
Finally, question 9—David Rees.
Yn olaf, cwestiwn 9—David Rees.
9. Pa gynnydd sydd wedi cael ei wneud o ran mynd i'r afael â llygredd aer ym Mhort Talbot o fewn etholaeth Aberafan? OAQ52493
9. What progress has been made in tackling air pollution in Port Talbot within the Aberavon constituency? OAQ52493
The Welsh Government's action plan on clean air for Port Talbot reaffirms our commitment to practically tackling poor air quality in the region. I have commissioned a peer review of progress against this plan, our approach, and the evidence that underpins it, to ensure it remains fit for purpose. I'll meet Tata Steel, Natural Resources Wales and Neath Port Talbot County Borough Council soon to support this process.
Mae cynllun gweithredu Llywodraeth Cymru ar aer glân ar gyfer Port Talbot yn ailddatgan ein hymrwymiad i fynd i'r afael yn ymarferol ag ansawdd aer gwael yn y rhanbarth. Rwyf wedi comisiynu adolygiad gan gymheiriaid o gynnydd yn erbyn y cynllun hwn, ein dull, a'r dystiolaeth sy'n sail iddo, i sicrhau ei fod yn parhau i fod yn addas i'r diben. Byddaf yn cyfarfod â Tata Steel, Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru a Chyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Castell-nedd Port Talbot cyn bo hir i gynorthwyo'r broses hon.
I thank you for that answer, Minister, and I'm not going to talk about the 50 mph extension, which is causing chaos, but I will talk about Tata Steel and the issues relating to that. We all understand that heavy industry has a consequence of some form of pollution, but many, many, many constituents have expressed huge concern over the levels of fallout that we've had in Port Talbot over the last few months. I appreciate that the warm weather is a contributing factor, we understand that, but this has gone beyond that, before that happened. And what is it doing? Because Natural Resources Wales have responsibility for monitoring and taking action to ensure that the air quality from the works is improved. Can you assure me that they are actually doing that job because residents are going out, not daily, but basically hourly to clean their tables and cars and their windowsills because of the fallout from the works?
Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog, ac nid wyf am siarad am yr estyniad 50 mya, sy'n achosi anhrefn, ond rwyf am siarad am Tata Steel a'r materion sy'n ymwneud â hynny. Mae pob un ohonom yn deall bod diwydiant trwm yn arwain at ryw fath o lygredd, ond mae llawer iawn o etholwyr wedi mynegi pryderon aruthrol ynglŷn â'r lefelau llwch rydym wedi'u cael ym Mhort Talbot dros y misoedd diwethaf. Rwy'n sylweddoli bod y tywydd cynnes yn ffactor sydd wedi cyfrannu, rydym yn deall hynny, ond mae hyn wedi mynd y tu hwnt i hynny, cyn i hynny ddigwydd. A beth y mae'n ei wneud? Oherwydd mae gan Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru gyfrifoldeb am fonitro a gweithredu i sicrhau bod ansawdd yr aer a ddaw o'r gwaith yn gwella. A allwch roi sicrwydd i mi eu bod yn gwneud y gwaith hwnnw gan fod trigolion yn mynd allan, nid bob dydd, ond bob awr yn y bôn i lanhau eu byrddau a'u ceir a siliau ffenestri oherwydd y llwch o'r gwaith?
I thank the Member for his question and his regular commitment to this issue for his constituency. You said about how there's instances lately in terms of with the dry, warm weather of large amounts of dust impacting on local residents. I completely understand the anxiety and the frustration that that would cause for local residents. I understand that—. You're right that Natural Resources Wales remain responsible for regulating this. I understand they're meeting Tata today to discuss the recent issues, and I've asked my officials to liaise with them to ensure that it's fed back promptly to me in terms of the outcome of these discussions.
I'm going to work with NRW and all the other stakeholders to review current operations, dust—[Inaudible.]—and the impact on the local community. I share the Member's concerns, and I've been clear that my goal is to bring down levels of air pollution, but as you and others recognise, it is a very complex, complicated and unique situation, which brings with it many challenges, but doesn't mean we can't rise to those challenges. It's important to make sure we strike that balance between recognising the role the steelworks plays in terms of being an economic anchor within the local community but also making sure we are getting the right results for the health and well-being of local residents as well.
Diolch i'r Aelod am ei gwestiwn a'i ymrwymiad cyson i'r mater hwn ar ran ei etholaeth. Fe sonioch chi ynglŷn â sut y cafwyd achosion yn ddiweddar, gyda'r tywydd cynnes a sych, o lawer iawn o lwch yn effeithio ar drigolion lleol. Rwy'n deall y pryder a'r rhwystredigaeth y byddai hynny'n ei achosi i drigolion lleol yn llwyr. Rwy'n deall bod—. Rydych yn llygad eich lle mai Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru sy'n parhau i fod yn gyfrifol am reoleiddio hyn. Deallaf eu bod yn cyfarfod â Tata heddiw i drafod y problemau diweddar, ac rwyf wedi gofyn i fy swyddogion gysylltu â hwy i sicrhau bod canlyniad y trafodaethau hyn yn fy nghyrraedd yn syth.
Rwy'n mynd i weithio gyda Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru a'r holl randdeiliaid eraill i adolygu gweithgarwch cyfredol, llwch—[Anghlywadwy.]—a'r effaith ar y gymuned leol. Rwy'n rhannu pryderon yr Aelod, ac rwyf wedi dweud yn glir mai fy nod yw gostwng lefelau llygredd aer, ond fel rydych chi ac eraill yn cydnabod, mae'n sefyllfa gymhleth ac unigryw iawn, sydd yn peri llawer o heriau, ond nid yw hynny'n golygu na allwn fynd i'r afael â'r heriau hynny. Mae'n bwysig sicrhau'r cydbwysedd hwnnw rhwng cydnabod rôl y gwaith dur o ran bod yn angor economaidd o fewn y gymuned leol a sicrhau ein bod yn cael y canlyniadau iawn ar gyfer iechyd a lles trigolion lleol hefyd.
Diolch i'r Gweinidog a'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet.
I thank the Minister and the Cabinet Secretary.
Felly, mae'r cwestiynau nesaf i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Lywodraeth Leol a Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus, a'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan David Melding.
The next questions are for the Cabinet Secretary for Local Government and Public Services, and the first question is from David Melding.
1. A wnaiff Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ddatganiad am y grantiau a ddarperir gan lywodraeth leol i gyflenwi gwasanaethau cyhoeddus? OAQ52498
1. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on the grants provided by local government to deliver public services? OAQ52498
Local authorities deliver a range of grants schemes to provide support and services locally.
Mae awdurdodau lleol yn cynnig ystod o gynlluniau grant i ddarparu cymorth a gwasanaethau yn lleol.
Cabinet Secretary, thank you for that very concise answer. The Welsh Government's proposals to amalgamate several grant-funded streams into a single grant—the early intervention, prevention and support grant—will remove the ring-fenced protection for several streams such as Supporting People, the Flying Start revenue grant and Families First. Now, in my region, this could have a detrimental impact on an initiative called the Teulu partnership, which is extremely popular, and has provided vital support for children at very difficult times. Some constituents have informed me that if it wasn't for the help and support that the Teulu partnership has given them they would have had no way of getting through some extremely difficult experiences. Now, I understand that Welsh Government officials have made some enquiries into the future of this grant, and that Cardiff council has confirmed that any new arrangements will ensure that the services provided by the Teulu partnership will continue.
Do you think it's really important that successful schemes are taken forward in any new funding arrangement, and that we maintain best practice? We don't need to reinvent the wheel constantly, and, certainly, when our constituents tell you something works, it should be maintained.
Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, diolch am eich ateb cryno iawn. Bydd cynigion Llywodraeth Cymru i gyfuno nifer o ffrydiau a ariennir gan grantiau i greu un grant—y grant ymyrraeth gynnar, atal a chefnogi—yn diddymu'r diogelwch a glustnodir ar gyfer nifer o ffrydiau fel Cefnogi Pobl, grant refeniw Dechrau'n Deg a Teuluoedd yn Gyntaf. Nawr, yn fy rhanbarth i, gallai hyn gael effaith andwyol ar fenter o'r enw partneriaeth Teulu, sy'n hynod o boblogaidd, ac sydd wedi darparu cymorth hanfodol i blant ar adegau anodd iawn. Mae rhai o fy etholwyr wedi dweud wrthyf na fyddent wedi gallu ymdopi â phrofiadau anodd iawn oni bai am y cymorth a gawsant gan bartneriaeth Teulu. Nawr, rwy'n deall bod swyddogion Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gwneud ymholiadau ynglŷn â dyfodol y grant hwn, a bod cyngor Caerdydd wedi cadarnhau y bydd unrhyw drefniadau newydd yn sicrhau bod y gwasanaethau a ddarperir gan bartneriaeth Teulu yn parhau.
A ydych yn credu ei bod yn wirioneddol bwysig fod cynlluniau llwyddiannus yn cael eu parhau mewn unrhyw drefniant cyllid newydd, a'n bod yn cynnal arferion gorau? Nid oes angen inni ailddyfeisio'r olwyn drwy'r amser, ac yn sicr, pan fydd ein hetholwyr yn dweud wrthych fod rhywbeth yn gweithio, dylid ei gynnal.
Can I say in answering the question, Presiding Officer, that if any Members have particular issues about particular funding streams and particular groups in their constituencies or regions, then we're always happy to take up those particular issues and those specific issues, both ourselves and the local authorities concerned?
In terms of the new integrated grant, I will say to the Member that it will still be ring-fenced to focus on the most vulnerable groups in society. We are considering how we further develop our approach to monitoring outcomes to ensure that we do not see the outcomes that the Member has described, and which the Member quite rightly fears; I accept that there is concern about that. But it is also important—and I hope Members also consider this—that we are integrating grants that all have in common a need to intervene early and support individuals and households to live independently and achieve their potential.
I think Members across the whole Chamber will agree that people's lives and the challenges that they face do not fit neatly into the structures that we can sometimes build around grant schemes, and therefore I believe that integration is the correct way forward. But, clearly, we have to do that whilst maintaining services to vulnerable groups in society. The purpose of this is to improve things, not to cause the difficulties that he describes.
A gaf fi ddweud wrth ateb y cwestiwn, Lywydd, os oes gan Aelodau unrhyw faterion penodol ynghylch ffrydiau ariannu penodol a grwpiau penodol yn eu hetholaethau neu eu rhanbarthau, rydym bob amser yn fwy na pharod i fynd i'r afael â'r problemau arbennig hynny a'r materion penodol hynny, ni a'r awdurdodau lleol perthnasol?
O ran y grant integredig newydd, rwy'n dweud wrth yr Aelod y bydd yn dal i gael ei glustnodi i ganolbwyntio ar y grwpiau mwyaf agored i niwed yn y gymdeithas. Rydym yn ystyried sut y datblygwn ein dull o fonitro canlyniadau ymhellach er mwyn sicrhau nad ydym yn gweld y canlyniadau y mae'r Aelod wedi'u disgrifio, ac mae'r Aelod yn iawn i'w hofni; rwy'n derbyn bod pryder ynglŷn â hynny. Ond mae hefyd yn bwysig—a gobeithiaf y bydd yr Aelodau yn ystyried hyn hefyd—ein bod yn integreiddio grantiau sy'n canolbwyntio fel ei gilydd ar yr angen i ymyrryd yn gynnar ac sy'n cynorthwyo unigolion ac aelwydydd i fyw'n annibynnol a chyflawni eu potensial.
Credaf y bydd Aelodau ar draws y Siambr yn cytuno nad yw bywydau pobl a'r heriau y maent yn eu hwynebu yn cyd-fynd yn daclus â'r strwythurau y gallwn eu hadeiladu weithiau o amgylch cynlluniau grant, ac felly credaf mai integreiddio yw'r ffordd gywir o fwrw ymlaen. Ond yn amlwg, mae'n rhaid inni wneud hynny gan gynnal gwasanaethau i grwpiau agored i niwed yn y gymdeithas. Diben hyn yw gwella pethau, nid achosi'r anawsterau y mae'n eu disgrifio.
The heat of summer can be just as dangerous as the cold of winter for homeless people. Heat exhaustion, dehydration, sunburn and sanitation all become serious issues for the growing number of people in Wales stuck on the street.
Cabinet Secretary, Luke's story came to my attention over the weekend. So desperate was he for water, Luke was reduced to drinking from toilets. On our streets, in our country, under your Government, desperate people are forced into inhuman indignity. Today, the charity, the Wallich, has called for urgent action. Central Government must now work with local authorities and the third sector to take immediate action to help these desperate people.
Water and sunblock are a particular priority for homeless people in these conditions, so can the Cabinet Secretary please tell me what urgent measures he plans to implement to ensure that homeless people can cope in the current weather conditions?
Gall gwres yr haf fod yr un mor beryglus ag oerfel y gaeaf i bobl ddigartref. Mae gorludded gwres, diffyg hylif, llosg haul a glanweithdra yn dod yn broblemau difrifol i'r nifer gynyddol o bobl yng Nghymru sy'n byw ar y stryd.
Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, tynnwyd fy sylw at stori Luke dros y penwythnos. Roedd Luke mor daer am ddŵr, fel y bu'n rhaid iddo yfed o doiledau. Ar ein strydoedd ni, yn ein gwlad ni, o dan eich Llywodraeth chi, mae pobl heb obaith yn cael eu gorfodi i ddioddef diffyg urddas sy'n annynol. Heddiw, mae elusen Wallich wedi galw am weithredu ar frys. Mae'n rhaid i'r Llywodraeth ganolog weithio gydag awdurdodau lleol a'r trydydd sector i weithredu ar frys i helpu'r bobl druenus hyn.
Mae dŵr ac eli haul yn flaenoriaeth arbennig i bobl ddigartref yn yr amgylchiadau hyn, felly a all Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ddweud wrthyf pa fesurau brys y mae'n bwriadu eu rhoi ar waith i sicrhau y gall pobl ddigartref ymdopi yn y tywydd hwn?
Can I say, Presiding Officer, I saw some of those reports myself, and my conclusion isn't dissimilar to yours? I think it is an appalling thing that people in this day and age have to resort to those measures in order to sustain themselves. I think everybody will agree with your conclusions on that and will wish to agree with you in terms of your approach to that. I read the same report today as you have, and it fills me full of horror that people in this country are living in that way.
The Minister for housing is in her place for this question session. She has heard what you've had to say and she will respond to you. But let me say this: this Government is wholly and completely committed to resolving the issues of homelessness—as you say, in the summer and in the winter—across the whole of this country, and our resources will always be prioritised to meet the needs of those people who are most vulnerable in our society, and the Minister is as committed to that as I am.
A gaf fi ddweud, Lywydd, fy mod wedi gweld rhai o'r adroddiadau hyn fy hun, ac nad yw fy nghasgliad yn annhebyg i'ch un chi? Credaf ei bod yn ofnadwy fod pobl yn yr oes sydd ohoni yn gorfod gwneud y pethau hyn er mwyn cynnal eu hunain. Credaf y bydd pawb yn cytuno â'ch casgliadau ar hynny ac yn awyddus i gytuno â chi o ran eich ymagwedd tuag at hynny. Darllenais yr un adroddiad â chi heddiw, ac mae'n arswydus fod pobl yn y wlad hon yn byw yn y ffordd honno.
Mae'r Gweinidog tai yn ei lle ar gyfer y sesiwn holi hon. Mae wedi clywed yr hyn a ddywedoch, a bydd yn ymateb i chi. Ond gadewch i mi ddweud hyn: mae'r Llywodraeth hon yn gwbl ymroddedig i ddatrys problemau digartrefedd—fel y dywedwch, yn yr haf ac yn y gaeaf—ledled y wlad, a bydd ein hadnoddau bob amser yn cael eu blaenoriaethu i ddiwallu anghenion y bobl fwyaf agored i niwed yn ein cymdeithas, ac mae'r Gweinidog mor ymrwymedig â minnau i hynny.
2. A wnaiff Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ddatganiad am y cymorth a ddarperir gan awdurdodau lleol i bobl ddigartref yng Nghanolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru? OAQ52495
2. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on support provided by local authorities to homeless people in Mid and West Wales? OAQ52495
The five local authorities in Mid and West Wales have successfully ended homelessness for 2,907 households and successfully prevented homelessness for 2,421 households since commencement of the Housing (Wales) Act 2014. We have provided over £900,000 directly to these local authorities last year for homelessness services in addition to the revenue support grant.
Mae'r pum awdurdod lleol yng Nghanolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru wedi rhoi diwedd ar ddigartrefedd i 2,907 o aelwydydd ac wedi atal digartrefedd yn llwyddiannus i 2,421 o aelwydydd ers cychwyn Deddf Tai (Cymru) 2014. Rydym wedi darparu dros £900,000 yn uniongyrchol i'r awdurdodau lleol hyn y llynedd ar gyfer gwasanaethau digartrefedd yn ychwanegol at y grant cynnal refeniw.
I thank the Minister for that informative reply. Unfortunately, homelessness in Wales has been rising in recent times. In 2016-17 the average for Wales as a whole was 82 people per 10,000 households. That's up from 52 in the previous year, although part of that increase may be explained by improved data collection. But nevertheless, it's still a worrying trend, and we all heard what the Cabinet Secretary said a moment ago, and I thought it was quite a moving response to the leader of Plaid Cymru. Carmarthenshire's figures are much higher than the national average—well over 100 in 10,000 designated homeless people.
I'm concerned to ask today about one aspect of this, which is that proportion of homeless people who are ex-armed forces veterans. A Northern Ireland veteran and chief executive of Veterans Association UK says there are 13,000 homeless veterans at a UK level, but the figure could be higher. We don't know what the figures might be for Wales, but it's fair to assume that there will be quite a number of veterans, ex-armed forces people who are sleeping rough and are homeless.
Carl Sargeant was a great friend to veterans and was responsible for significant improvements in provision for homeless veterans in particular, and I was wondering, therefore, whether the new Cabinet Secretary, who I know shares Carl's concerns, and you in particular, Minister, would consider going further than the code of guidance that was issued in 2016 and give social housing priority to ex-servicemen and women and those returning from active service as a step to ensuring that armed services personnel get the aftercare service they deserve.
Diolch i'r Gweinidog am ei hateb llawn gwybodaeth. Yn anffodus, mae digartrefedd yng Nghymru wedi bod yn codi'n ddiweddar. Yn 2016-17, y cyfartaledd ar gyfer Cymru gyfan oedd 82 o bobl fesul 10,000 o aelwydydd. Mae hynny'n uwch na'r 52 yn y flwyddyn flaenorol, er y gellir esbonio peth o'r cynnydd hwnnw drwy ddulliau casglu data gwell. Serch hynny, mae'n duedd sy'n peri pryder, a chlywodd pob un ohonom yr hyn a ddywedodd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet eiliad yn ôl, ac roeddwn yn credu ei fod yn ymateb teimladwy i arweinydd Plaid Cymru. Mae ffigurau sir Gaerfyrddin yn llawer uwch na'r cyfartaledd cenedlaethol—dynodwyd bod ymhell dros 100 o bobl fesul 10,000 yn ddigartref.
Rwy'n awyddus i ofyn heddiw am un agwedd ar hyn, sef y gyfran o bobl ddigartref sy'n gyn-filwyr. Dywed cyn-filwr a fu ar ddyletswydd yng Ngogledd Iwerddon a phrif weithredwr Veterans Association UK fod 13,000 o gyn-filwyr yn ddigartref yn y DU, ond gallai'r ffigur fod yn uwch. Ni wyddom beth yw'r ffigurau ar gyfer Cymru, ond mae'n deg tybio y bydd nifer eithaf uchel o gyn-filwyr, pobl a fu'n aelodau o'r lluoedd arfog, yn cysgu ar y stryd ac yn ddigartref.
Roedd Carl Sargeant yn ffrind da i'r cyn-filwyr ac roedd yn gyfrifol am welliannau sylweddol yn y ddarpariaeth ar gyfer cyn-filwyr digartref yn arbennig, a thybed felly, a fyddai'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet newydd, sy'n rhannu pryderon Carl, rwy'n gwybod, a chi'n benodol, Weinidog, yn ystyried mynd ymhellach na'r cod canllawiau a gyhoeddwyd yn 2016 a rhoi blaenoriaeth tai cymdeithasol i gyn-filwyr a'r rhai sy'n dychwelyd o wasanaeth gweithredol fel cam tuag at sicrhau bod personél y lluoedd arfog yn cael y gwasanaeth ôl-ofal y maent yn ei haeddu.
I thank you very much for that question, and I completely agree with you about the worrying trend in terms of homelessness, particularly rough-sleeping. But I think we can be proud of the record that we do have in terms of prevention. I gave you some of the figures of the thousands of people who've had homelessness prevented and relieved in your region, and the figure now across Wales is 14,000 families, which I think is something to be celebrated. I know that other countries are looking at our legislation really carefully to see what they can learn from us. But, nonetheless, as long as there is homelessness, and as long as there is rough-sleeping, then clearly we need to be doing more work in partnership with those local authorities and our other partners.
In terms of support for people who are leaving the armed forces and for veterans, I know that the housing pathway has been in place and has had some success, but I've also been having some discussions recently with representatives of the Royal British Legion in terms of what more we can do to be supporting people who are veterans and also people leaving the armed forces, and also their families as well, because often they find themselves in difficult positions regarding housing, and potentially facing homelessness when divorces happen and so on. So, it is a complex picture, but one that we are very much engaged with and we are keen to see what more we can do to support veterans.
Diolch yn fawr iawn am eich cwestiwn, ac rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â chi ynglŷn â'r duedd ar i fyny mewn digartrefedd sy'n peri cryn bryder, yn enwedig cysgu ar y stryd. Ond credaf y gallwn fod yn falch o'n record mewn perthynas ag atal. Rhoddais rai o'r ffigurau i chi ynghylch y miloedd o bobl sydd wedi elwa o gamau i atal a lleihau digartrefedd yn eich rhanbarth, ac mae'r ffigur ar gyfer Cymru gyfan bellach yn 14,000 o deuluoedd, a chredaf fod hynny'n rhywbeth i'w ddathlu. Gwn fod gwledydd eraill yn edrych ar ein deddfwriaeth yn ofalus iawn i weld beth y gallant ei ddysgu gennym. Serch hynny, cyhyd ag y ceir digartrefedd, a chyhyd ag y bo pobl yn cysgu ar y strydoedd, mae'n amlwg fod angen inni wneud mwy o waith mewn partneriaeth â'r awdurdodau lleol a chyda'n partneriaid eraill.
O ran cymorth ar gyfer pobl sy'n gadael y lluoedd arfog ac ar gyfer cyn-filwyr, gwn fod y llwybr tai wedi bod ar waith ac wedi cael ychydig o lwyddiant, ond rwyf hefyd wedi cael trafodaethau yn ddiweddar â chynrychiolwyr o'r Lleng Brydeinig Frenhinol o ran beth arall y gallwn ei wneud i gefnogi pobl sy'n gyn-filwyr a hefyd i gynorthwyo pobl sy'n gadael y lluoedd arfog, a'u teuluoedd hefyd, gan eu bod yn aml mewn sefyllfaoedd anodd mewn perthynas â thai, ac o bosibl yn wynebu digartrefedd pan fydd cyplau'n cael ysgariad ac ati. Felly, mae'n ddarlun cymhleth, ond mae'n un rydym yn mynd i'r afael ag ef ac rydym yn awyddus i weld beth arall y gallwn ei wneud i gefnogi cyn-filwyr.
Minister, I would be keen to get a greater understanding of how local authorities measure and collate the reasons for homelessness. As you know, in my constituency, we have a case of a significant number of park home residents who, through the changes in law made by Welsh Government, are under threat of becoming homeless. Now, in response to a letter of mine, you said that you'd already had your officials to be in touch with Pembrokeshire County Council to talk about their potential needs if they become homeless. But I would like to make the point that these are very elderly people, they are very vulnerable, they've sunk all their life savings into buying their park home, and for them to face this at their time of life is really just a complete abrogation of duty all round.
I wonder what further action you can take on this. I know you make the point, in your letter to me, that they have until 2019, the park home owners, to start making small adjustments, but some of these park homes are very, very finely balanced. Pembrokeshire may be the first place where this issue has raised its head, but I am concerned that, throughout Wales, there may be other park homes where they are on a knife edge in terms of their ability to carry on going. And if we're not careful, we will suddenly find a very vulnerable section of our society made homeless at a time of their lives when they are going to find it very, very difficult to manage that. I do think that we need to have a more proactive response to how we're going to handle the unintended consequences to the legislation that Welsh Government put in place.
Weinidog, hoffwn gael gwell dealltwriaeth o sut y mae awdurdodau lleol yn mesur ac yn coladu'r rhesymau dros ddigartrefedd. Fel y gwyddoch, yn fy etholaeth i, mae gennym nifer sylweddol o breswylwyr cartrefi mewn parciau sydd, drwy newidiadau yn y gyfraith a wnaed gan Lywodraeth Cymru, o dan fygythiad o fod yn ddigartref. Nawr, mewn ymateb i lythyr gennyf, fe ddywedoch eich bod eisoes wedi gofyn i'ch swyddogion gysylltu â Chyngor Sir Penfro i siarad am eu hanghenion posibl pe baent yn dod yn ddigartref. Ond hoffwn dynnu sylw at y ffaith eu bod yn bobl oedrannus iawn, maent yn agored iawn i niwed, maent wedi gwario eu holl gynilion ar gartref mewn parc, ac mae'r ffaith eu bod yn wynebu hyn ar yr adeg hon yn eu bywydau yn gwbl warthus.
Tybed pa gamau pellach y gallwch eu rhoi ar waith ar hyn. Gwn eich bod yn gwneud y pwynt, yn eich llythyr ataf, fod gan berchnogion cartrefi mewn parciau hyd at 2019 i ddechrau gwneud addasiadau bach, ond mae rhai o'r cartrefi hyn mewn sefyllfa fregus iawn. Efallai mai sir Benfro yw'r lle cyntaf lle mae'r mater hwn wedi dod i'r amlwg, ond rwy'n bryderus y gall fod cartrefi eraill mewn parciau ledled Cymru sydd ar ymyl clogwyn o ran eu gallu i barhau. Ac os nad ydym yn ofalus, bydd rhan agored iawn i niwed o'n cymdeithas yn ddigartref heb fawr o rybudd ar adeg yn eu bywydau pan fyddant yn ei chael yn anodd iawn ymdopi â hynny. Credaf fod angen inni fabwysiadu ymateb mwy rhagweithiol o ran sut rydym yn ymdrin â chanlyniadau anfwriadol y ddeddfwriaeth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei rhoi ar waith.
I thank you very much for raising this issue. Of course, the legislation is not yet in place; it will be subject to a vote of the whole Assembly in the early part of next year. Of course, the approach I tried to take was a pragmatic approach, trying to be fair to both the park home owners and also the park home residents. I know that the Conservative Party was very much pressing the approach of completely abolishing the park home fees, which would've had a very different impact, I think, on park homes.
I'm quite limited in terms of what I'm able to say on this particular issue now, because I understand that there's potentially the intention to issue some court proceedings. So, I'll probably leave it there for today, and if I am able to say more, I'll write to you.
Diolch yn fawr iawn am godi'r mater hwn. Wrth gwrs, nid yw'r ddeddfwriaeth ar waith eto; bydd yn amodol ar bleidlais y Cynulliad cyfan yn gynnar y flwyddyn nesaf. Wrth gwrs, roedd yr ymagwedd y ceisiais ei mabwysiadu yn ymagwedd bragmatig, wrth geisio bod yn deg â pherchnogion cartrefi mewn parciau yn ogystal â phreswylwyr cartrefi mewn parciau. Gwn fod y Blaid Geidwadol wedi galw am gael gwared ar ffioedd cartrefi mewn parciau yn gyfan gwbl, a fyddai wedi cael effaith wahanol iawn, yn fy marn i, ar gartrefi mewn parciau.
Mae'r hyn y gallaf ei ddweud ar y mater hwn ar hyn o bryd yn gyfyngedig, gan y deallaf fod bwriad posibl i ddwyn achosion llys. Felly, mae'n debyg mai dyna'r oll a ddywedaf ar y mater heddiw, ac os gallaf ddweud mwy, byddaf yn ysgrifennu atoch.
Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd UKIP, Gareth Bennett.
Questions now from the party spokespeople. The UKIP spokesperson, Gareth Bennett.
Diolch, Llywydd. There have been a number of successful planning applications recently for student accommodation in Cardiff. Some people have observed that virtually every major housing block granted planning permission for central Cardiff in the past 18 months has been for student accommodation. At the same time, we have a second so-called student block considering applying for change of use so that it can let its rooms to non-students, due to lack of demand from the student population. We also have a large block in Newport that is no longer being used exclusively for students. If there is a lack of demand for the blocks that have already been built, why are more student blocks being built, I wonder. Is the Welsh Government aware of this issue, and what are you doing to regulate this area?
Diolch, Lywydd. Yn ddiweddar, cafwyd nifer o geisiadau cynllunio llwyddiannus ar gyfer llety myfyrwyr yng Nghaerdydd. Mae rhai pobl wedi sylwi bod bron bob bloc mawr sydd wedi cael caniatâd cynllunio yng nghanol Caerdydd yn y 18 mis diwethaf wedi bod ar gyfer llety myfyrwyr. Ar yr un pryd, mae gennym ail floc myfyrwyr fel y'i gelwir yn ystyried gwneud cais am newid defnydd fel y gellir rhentu'r ystafelloedd i bobl nad ydynt yn fyfyrwyr, o ganlyniad i ddiffyg galw gan y myfyrwyr. Mae gennym hefyd floc mawr yng Nghasnewydd nad yw'n cael ei ddefnyddio ar gyfer myfyrwyr yn unig mwyach. Os oes diffyg galw am y blociau sydd eisoes wedi'u hadeiladu, pam fod mwy o flociau myfyrwyr yn cael eu hadeiladu, tybed. A yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn ymwybodol o'r mater hwn, a beth rydych yn ei wneud i reoleiddio'r maes hwn?
Thank you for the question. I'm certainly aware of the issue, in terms of there being a large number of student accommodations within Cardiff that aren't being occupied by students. There's a particular difficulty in terms of changing those accommodations into non-student accommodations, of course, because my understanding is that the regulations surrounding the different types of accommodation are different, so there is an issue there in terms of space, and so on. I know this is an issue that the Minister with responsibility for planning is also very much alive to. But my advice to local authorities, certainly, would be to look very closely at their local housing needs analysis, and to be organising their planning and decision making around planning in accordance with those local housing needs.
Diolch i chi am y cwestiwn. Rwy'n sicr yn ymwybodol fod nifer fawr o adeiladau llety myfyrwyr o fewn Caerdydd nad ydynt yn cael eu defnyddio gan fyfyrwyr. Mae anhawster penodol o ran newid yr adeiladau llety hynny'n adeiladau llety i bobl nad ydynt yn fyfyrwyr, wrth gwrs, oherwydd fy nealltwriaeth i yw bod y rheoliadau sy'n ymwneud â gwahanol fathau o adeiladau llety yn wahanol, felly mae yna broblem gyda hynny o ran gofod, ac ati. Gwn fod hwn yn fater y mae'r Gweinidog sy'n gyfrifol am gynllunio yn effro iawn iddo hefyd. Ond fy nghyngor i awdurdodau lleol, yn sicr, fyddai iddynt edrych yn agos iawn ar eu dadansoddiad o anghenion tai lleol, a threfnu eu gwaith cynllunio a'u prosesau gwneud penderfyniadau sy'n ymwneud â chynllunio yn unol â'r anghenion tai lleol hynny.
Thanks for that response. I'm glad you are aware of the issue. I think there may be a need for perhaps closer involvement at Welsh Government level in this area, because the local authorities—certainly in Cardiff and Newport—may not be doing enough about it. I think that we may be heading for over-supply of student accommodation. Certainly we know that the expansion of higher education cannot go on forever; there will not be an endless supply of more student numbers in Cardiff, Newport, or probably anywhere else in Wales. I think what we may have here is something of a scam. It may be that the universities are deliberately creating an over-supply of flats for the student market, so that they can change their use by the back door, and use them subsequently to let out commercially. We know that there are less stringent rules applied to student flats than to commercial developments, for instance, which you alluded to in your answer. Are you aware that the universities could be duping the local councils into allowing these developments of student blocks, which the university chiefs know full well may be used subsequently for commercial letting?
Diolch am yr ymateb hwnnw. Rwy'n falch eich bod yn ymwybodol o'r mater. Credaf efallai fod angen i Lywodraeth Cymru chwarae rôl fwy yn y maes hwn, gan nad yw'r awdurdodau lleol o bosibl—yn sicr yng Nghaerdydd a Chasnewydd—yn gwneud digon am y peth. Credaf ei bod yn bosibl y bydd gennym ormod o adeiladau llety myfyrwyr. Yn sicr, rydym yn gwybod na all yr ehangu mewn addysg uwch barhau am byth; ni fydd cyflenwad diddiwedd o niferoedd myfyrwyr yng Nghaerdydd, Casnewydd, nag unrhyw le arall yng Nghymru, yn ôl pob tebyg. Credaf efallai fod rhyw fath o sgiâm ar waith yma. Mae'n bosibl fod y prifysgolion yn mynd ati'n fwriadol i greu gorgyflenwad o fflatiau ar gyfer y farchnad myfyrwyr, fel y gallant newid eu defnydd drwy'r drws cefn, a'u defnyddio wedyn i'w rhentu'n fasnachol. Rydym yn gwybod bod rheolau llai llym yn gymwys ar gyfer fflatiau myfyriwr nag ar gyfer datblygiadau masnachol, er enghraifft, ac rydych wedi cyfeirio at hynny yn eich ateb. A ydych yn ymwybodol y gallai prifysgolion fod yn twyllo'r cynghorau lleol i ganiatáu iddynt ddatblygu'r blociau myfyriwr hyn, a bod penaethiaid y prifysgolion yn gwybod yn iawn y byddant yn eu rhentu'n fasnachol wedyn?
I think there's an onus on universities and on the local authorities to be having some serious discussions together in terms of their projections of local needs for both students and the non-student population, and to be planning their new builds and what's available in terms of accommodation locally in that way. I'm not sure that there's a role for Welsh Government in terms of stipulating the number of student accommodations that should be available, but those decisions should be taken on an evidence base and a needs-based approach.
Rwy'n credu ei bod yn ddyletswydd ar brifysgolion ac awdurdodau lleol i gael trafodaethau difrifol ynglŷn â'u hamcanestyniadau o anghenion lleol ar gyfer myfyrwyr a phobl nad ydynt yn fyfyrwyr, ac i gynllunio eu cynlluniau adeiladu newydd a'r hyn sydd ar gael yn lleol fel llety yn y ffordd honno. Nid wyf yn siŵr fod yna rôl i Lywodraeth Cymru o ran pennu'r nifer o adeiladau llety myfyrwyr a ddylai fod ar gael, ond dylai'r penderfyniadau hynny gael eu gwneud ar sail tystiolaeth a thrwy ddull o weithredu sy'n seiliedig ar anghenion.
Yes. You cite the need for an evidence-based approach, and I'm sure you're right in that. But there may be implications for your ambitions for affordable housing in Wales, which you were telling us about in the Assembly this week. Certainly, we agreed that we have a shortage of affordable housing here.
Commercial developers, when they build new housing estates, have a certain legal obligation to provide an element of affordable housing. Developers building so-called student blocks are under no such obligation. Unless the Welsh Government becomes more aware of what the universities may be doing, and investigates the practice, then there is a danger that you are allowing the universities, and their partners in the construction business, to undermine your ambitions for affordable housing. So, are you aware of this threat? And I would ask you again: do you intend to do anything about it?
Dylent. Rydych yn cyfeirio at yr angen am ddull o weithredu sy'n seiliedig ar dystiolaeth, ac rwy'n siŵr eich bod yn iawn yn hynny o beth. Ond efallai y bydd goblygiadau o ran eich dyheadau am dai fforddiadwy yng Nghymru, y buoch yn dweud wrthym amdanynt yn y Cynulliad yr wythnos hon. Yn sicr, roeddem yn cytuno bod gennym brinder tai fforddiadwy yma.
Mae datblygwyr masnachol, pan fyddant yn adeiladu ystadau tai newydd, wedi'u rhwymo'n gyfreithiol i ddarparu elfen o dai fforddiadwy. Nid oes unrhyw reidrwydd o'r fath ar ddatblygwyr sy'n adeiladu blociau myfyriwr fel y'u gelwir. Oni bai bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn dod yn fwy ymwybodol o'r hyn y mae'r prifysgolion yn ei wneud o bosibl, ac yn ymchwilio i'r arfer, mae perygl eich bod yn caniatáu i'r prifysgolion, a'u partneriaid yn y busnes adeiladu, danseilio eich dyheadau am dai fforddiadwy. Felly, a ydych yn ymwybodol o'r bygythiad hwn? A gofynnaf i chi eto: a ydych yn bwriadu gwneud unrhyw beth yn ei gylch?
Well, the Minister with responsibility for planning has already said that she intends to issue a wide-ranging review of housing and planning rules over the course of the summer. So, I'm sure that this will be one of the issues that are drawn to the fore and drawn to attention within the course of that consultation, and it will be an opportunity to consider whether there need to be changes in that regard.
Wel, mae'r Gweinidog sy'n gyfrifol am gynllunio eisoes wedi dweud ei bod yn bwriadu cyhoeddi adolygiad eang o'r rheolau tai a chynllunio yn ystod yr haf. Felly, rwy'n siŵr y bydd hwn yn un o'r materion a fydd yn dod i'r amlwg ac yn cael sylw yn ystod yr ymgynghoriad hwnnw, a bydd yn gyfle i ystyried yr angen am newidiadau yn hynny o beth.
Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Bethan Sayed.
The Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Bethan Sayed.
Okay. I'm going to talk about drug issues, so I don't know if that's—. I wasn't asked if it was Rebecca—.
Iawn. Rwyf am sôn am faterion yn ymwneud â chyffuriau, felly nid wyf yn gwybod a yw hynny—. Ni ofynnwyd i mi os mai Rebecca—.
You've indicated that your question is to the Minister.
Rydych wedi nodi bod eich cwestiwn ar gyfer y Gweinidog.
Oh, right, okay. Well, in the first instance—
O, iawn. Wel, yn y lle cyntaf—
Have you? Is that your understanding?
A ydych chi wedi gwneud hynny? Ai dyna a ddealloch chi?
It's Vaughan Gething, but I'm happy to take the question.
Un i Vaughan Gething ydyw, ond rwy'n hapus i dderbyn y cwestiwn.
Yes, well, okay, we'll see if there's cross-Government work then. [Laughter.]
My first question is with regard to drug use and misuse in some places, which have reached scarily high levels, and a report earlier this year highlighted that, since 1993, deaths as a result of heroin use have increased significantly. As well as this, there has been a worrying rise in county line drug crime, with drug dealers and gangs increasingly targeting smaller communities and moving out of large cities in England to come here. I know in South Wales West we've heard of stories in Swansea and in Neath. It's within the top-10 places in England and Wales where deaths have risen, and other drug uses, such as spice, are also on the rise. I understand you are working with the police in relation to this, but I just wanted to understand how you're working with them so that we can tackle this issue head on.
Oh, it's you. Okay.
Ie, wel, iawn, fe gawn weld a oes yna waith trawslywodraethol yn digwydd felly. [Chwerthin.]
Mae fy nghwestiwn cyntaf yn ymwneud â defnyddio cyffuriau, a chamddefnyddio cyffuriau mewn rhai mannau, sydd wedi cyrraedd lefelau dychrynllyd o uchel, ac fe ddangosodd adroddiad yn gynharach eleni fod nifer y marwolaethau o ganlyniad i ddefnyddio heroin wedi cynyddu'n sylweddol ers 1993. Yn ogystal â hyn, mae cynnydd sy'n peri pryder wedi bod mewn troseddau llinellau cyffuriau, gyda gwerthwyr cyffuriau a gangiau yn gynyddol yn targedu cymunedau llai ac yn symud o ddinasoedd mawr yn Lloegr i ddod yma. Gwn ein bod wedi clywed straeon yn Abertawe ac yng Nghastell-nedd yng Ngorllewin De Cymru. Mae'n un o'r 10 lle yng Nghymru a Lloegr lle mae nifer y marwolaethau wedi codi fwyaf, ac mae defnydd o gyffuriau eraill, fel spice, hefyd ar gynnydd. Deallaf eich bod yn gweithio gyda'r heddlu mewn perthynas â hyn, ond roeddwn eisiau deall sut rydych yn gweithio gyda hwy fel y gallwn fynd i'r afael â'r mater hwn yn uniongyrchol.
O, chi ydyw. Iawn.
You haven't heard the answer yet. [Laughter.]
I am grateful to the Member for the question. We are working closely with the four police forces in Wales on this matter. I've met with the officers dealing with serious and organised crime in Wales to discuss the matters that she does raise. They are very serious matters, of course, and affect all of our forces across this country. So, we are working with them. I hope over the summer to put in place structures whereby we can formalise the work that we do with the police forces at the moment. Members are aware, of course, that these are not devolved matters—neither drug policy nor policing is devolved. So, we are working in areas where we do not have control of the policy agenda, but we do clearly have a great influence, I hope, in the way in which policing can be delivered. So, we are aware of the issue. I'm particularly aware of the issues that you describe in Neath, and I hope that we will be able to work with police forces to deliver the sort of response that you've described.
Nid ydych wedi clywed yr ateb eto. [Chwerthin.]
Rwy'n ddiolchgar i'r Aelod am y cwestiwn. Rydym yn gweithio'n agos gyda'r pedwar gwasanaeth heddlu yng Nghymru ar y mater hwn. Rwyf wedi cyfarfod â swyddogion sy'n ymdrin â throseddau difrifol a chyfundrefnol yng Nghymru i drafod y materion a nododd. Maent yn faterion difrifol iawn, wrth gwrs, sy'n effeithio ar bob un o'n lluoedd ar draws y wlad. Felly, rydym yn gweithio gyda hwy. Dros yr haf, rwy'n gobeithio sefydlu strwythurau lle y gallwn ffurfioli'r gwaith a wnawn gyda'r heddluoedd ar hyn o bryd. Mae'r Aelodau'n ymwybodol, wrth gwrs, nad yw'r rhain yn faterion datganoledig—nid yw polisi cyffuriau na phlismona wedi'u datganoli. Felly, rydym yn gweithio mewn meysydd lle nad oes gennym reolaeth dros yr agenda polisi, ond yn amlwg mae gennym ddylanwad mawr, gobeithio, yn y ffordd y gellir cyflawni'r gwaith o blismona. Felly, rydym yn ymwybodol o'r broblem. Rwy'n ymwybodol iawn o'r problemau rydych yn eu disgrifio yng Nghastell-nedd, a gobeithiaf y byddwn yn gallu gweithio gyda heddluoedd i gyflawni'r math o ymateb rydych wedi'i ddisgrifio.
This next one is both to do with this issue and housing, so I'll see if you can both stand up, potentially.
Mae'r cwestiwn nesaf yn ymwneud â'r mater hwn a thai, felly caf weld os gall y ddau ohonoch godi, o bosibl.
No, no. This isn't a kind of throw the question out there and—
Na, na. Nid yw'n fater o daflu'r cwestiwn allan a—
I wasn't asked this time, to be honest, which Minister I was directing it to, as usual, so I think that's why the confusion has happened.
I fod yn onest, ni ofynnwyd i mi y tro hwn, fel sy'n arfer digwydd, pa Weinidog roeddwn yn cyfeirio'r cwestiwn ato, felly rwy'n credu mai dyna pam y bu dryswch.
This question is to who? Make it clear now, and I'll ask the Minister or the Cabinet Secretary to respond. Which one do you—? No, the Cabinet Secretary will be responding and don't put me in this position again.
I bwy rydych yn gofyn y cwestiwn? Gwnewch hynny'n glir yn awr, ac rwyf am ofyn i'r Gweinidog neu Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet i ymateb. Pa un ydych chi—? Na, bydd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn ymateb a pheidiwch â fy rhoi yn y sefyllfa hon eto.
This is why this is an issue that may be confusing for the Government in terms of who responds to what, because of the fact that there is that issue with regard to the link between deprivation and drugs, and the issue with regard to housing, and I think that's something that the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs has confirmed in relation to this issue.
Wales Online last year said that one heroin addict told Wales Online that he wanted to go back to prison where there was more support available, and this person was homeless, a man who had no realistic access to housing for his particular condition. But that means that we need the right type of housing. And we know of instances in Valleys communities, where, for example, there may be a row of flats, or there may be a row of houses, where people in that particular flat may all have drug abuse issues, and if they are put into that same experience, then they will not be able to get over that addiction.
So, my question was with regard to the housing first pilot and how we could ensure that if you're going to make those pilots work, how those who are struggling with drug abuse problems are able to overcome those if they are put in a position where they feel they may not be able to, if they are put in a housing situation that may not suit them.
Dyma pam fod hwn yn fater a allai fod yn ddryslyd i'r Llywodraeth o ran pwy sy'n ymateb i beth, oherwydd bod yna broblem mewn perthynas â'r cyswllt rhwng amddifadedd a chyffuriau, a'r broblem o ran tai, ac rwy'n credu bod hynny'n rhywbeth y mae'r Cyngor Cynghorol ar Gamddefnyddio Cyffuriau wedi'i gadarnhau mewn perthynas â'r mater hwn.
Y llynedd, dywedodd Wales Online fod un dyn a oedd yn gaeth i heroin wedi dweud wrthynt ei fod eisiau dychwelyd i'r carchar lle roedd mwy o gymorth ar gael, ac roedd y dyn yn ddigartref, heb fynediad realistig at dai yn y cyflwr roedd ynddo. Ond mae hynny'n golygu ein bod angen y math cywir o dai. A gwyddom am achosion mewn cymunedau yn y Cymoedd, er enghraifft, lle y gall fod rhes o fflatiau, neu res o dai, lle bydd gan yr holl bobl mewn fflat broblemau camddefnyddio cyffuriau, ac os cânt eu rhoi yn yr un sefyllfa, ni fyddant yn gallu goresgyn y ddibyniaeth honno.
Felly, roedd fy nghwestiwn yn ymwneud â chynllun peilot tai yn gyntaf a sut y gallem sicrhau, os ydych am sicrhau y bydd y cynlluniau peilot yn gweithio, fod y rhai sy'n brwydro yn erbyn problemau camddefnyddio cyffuriau yn gallu eu goresgyn os cânt eu rhoi mewn sefyllfa lle maent yn teimlo efallai na allant wneud hynny, os cânt eu rhoi mewn tai nad ydynt yn addas ar eu cyfer.
I'll say very gently to the Member: it's not the Government that are confused on this matter. The issues that have been described though are clearly important issues and affect a great number of people. I've met with prison governors in Wales to discuss some of the issues that she raises in terms of the impact of substance misuse on those who are detained on the secure estate in Wales, and the treatment that they receive, both within that estate and when they leave. I believe that there are good examples across Wales where there are being put in place some excellent opportunities for health boards particularly to intervene, to provide support for people who do suffer from substance misuse on the secure estate and then to ensure that they have the treatment available to them when they are released. I accept completely that there is a long way to go on this, and I don't believe that the policy environment that's been created by the Home Office is always very helpful in helping us to achieve our ambitions. But it is something that we are actively debating and discussing with our police forces and our prison facilities and the prison service in Wales, but also with the third sector and other support services providing services to people who are in this situation.
Rwyf am ddweud yn garedig iawn wrth yr Aelod: nid y Llywodraeth sydd wedi drysu ar y mater hwn. Serch hynny, mae'r materion a ddisgrifiwyd yn amlwg yn bwysig ac yn effeithio ar nifer fawr o bobl. Rwyf wedi cyfarfod â llywodraethwyr carchardai yng Nghymru i drafod rhai o'r materion y mae'n eu codi o ran effaith camddefnyddio sylweddau ar y rhai sy'n cael eu cadw mewn sefydliadau diogel yng Nghymru, a'r driniaeth y maent yn ei chael o fewn y sefydliadau hynny a phan fyddant yn gadael. Credaf fod enghreifftiau da ledled Cymru lle mae cyfleoedd rhagorol yn cael eu rhoi ar waith ar gyfer byrddau iechyd yn arbennig i ymyrryd, i ddarparu cymorth i bobl sy'n camddefnyddio sylweddau mewn sefydliadau diogel ac yna i sicrhau bod triniaeth ar gael iddynt pan fyddant yn cael eu rhyddhau. Rwy'n derbyn yn llwyr fod llawer o waith i'w wneud eto ar hyn, ac nid wyf yn credu bod yr amgylchedd polisi a grëwyd gan y Swyddfa Gartref bob amser yn ddefnyddiol iawn yn ein helpu i gyflawni ein huchelgeisiau. Ond mae'n rhywbeth rydym yn ei drafod ar hyn o bryd gyda'n heddluoedd a'n cyfleusterau carchardai a'r gwasanaeth carchardai yng Nghymru, ond hefyd gyda'r trydydd sector a gwasanaethau cymorth eraill sy'n darparu gwasanaethau i bobl sydd yn y sefyllfa hon.
Well, I'm glad you've said there's a long way to go, because I've had particular communication with Swansea council homelessness working group, chaired by former AM, Peter Black, who recently wrote to Councillor Andrea Lewis, the cabinet member responsible, with a pretty damning outline as to how the city deals with the problem, particularly those with complex needs. The working group noted that within Swansea any client who wishes to be scripted must first self-refer to the Abertawe Alcohol and Drug Assessment Service, on either a Monday or Tuesday morning, and these referral hours need to be made more flexible and dramatically extended as clients who don't make it on a Monday or Tuesday must then wait a week for another opportunity. Once referred, it will take as much as six months on a waiting list to be scripted and then there is another 12-month waiting list to go into rehab. Surely this response isn't good enough to what is a rising problem.
I've seen the work that the working group has done in Swansea, and nobody seems to want to take responsibility—Abertawe Bro Morgannwg University Local Health Board, the council or health. So, if we're going to be ensuring that those people get the support that they need, how can we do so when the system seems to be moving so slowly?
Wel, rwy'n falch eich bod wedi dweud bod llawer o waith i'w wneud, oherwydd rwyf wedi cyfathrebu'n benodol â gweithgor digartrefedd cyngor Abertawe, dan gadeiryddiaeth yr Aelod Cynulliad blaenorol, Peter Black, a ysgrifennodd at y Cynghorydd Andrea Lewis yn ddiweddar, yr aelod cabinet â chyfrifoldeb, gydag amlinelliad eithaf damniol o sut y mae'r ddinas yn ymdrin â'r broblem, yn enwedig y rheini sydd ag anghenion cymhleth. Nododd y gweithgor fod yn rhaid i unrhyw gleient sy'n dymuno cael cymorth yn Abertawe, hunanatgyfeirio at Wasanaeth Asesu Alcohol a Chyffuriau Abertawe yn gyntaf, ar ddydd Llun neu fore Mawrth, ac mae angen gwneud yr oriau atgyfeirio hyn yn fwy hyblyg a'u hymestyn yn ddramatig oherwydd mae'n rhaid i'r cleientiaid nad ydynt yn gallu mynd ar ddydd Llun neu ddydd Mawrth aros wythnos am gyfle arall. Ar ôl iddynt gael eu hatgyfeirio, bydd yn rhaid iddynt fod ar restr aros am gymaint â chwe mis i gael cymorth ac mae rhestr aros am 12 mis arall i gael cymorth adsefydlu. Does bosib fod ymateb o'r fath yn ddigon da i'r broblem gynyddol hon.
Rwyf wedi gweld y gwaith a wnaeth y gweithgor yn Abertawe, ac nid oes neb i'w weld eisiau cymryd cyfrifoldeb—Bwrdd Iechyd Lleol Prifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg, y cyngor nac iechyd. Felly, os ydym am sicrhau bod y bobl hynny'n cael y gefnogaeth y maent ei hangen, sut y gallwn wneud hynny pan fo'r system i'w gweld yn symud mor araf?
Can I say that I do recognise the difficulties the Member describes? And I think there are issues where we have a settlement that is jagged and broken, and I've made that case on a number of occasions. The way in which policing particularly and penal services are administered at the moment does not provide the best solution to enable us to provide the services, as she's describing, to people across Wales. I accept that, and I hope that the Home Office, the Ministry of Justice and other parts of the United Kingdom Government will listen to that case.
In terms of the services provided in the Swansea area, clearly, I'm not familiar with the issues she's raised this afternoon. But if she's willing to write to me, I will take up those issues and ensure that there is a response in the comprehensive and holistic way that she quite rightly expects to see, because I agree with that. I believe we do need a far more comprehensive approach to substance misuse in terms of treating people, maintaining people in accommodation, where necessary ensuring that they have the means in order to be treated and treated properly to remove that misuse, to enable them to go on and live their lives. That is our ambition and that is what we're working towards.
A gaf fi ddweud fy mod yn cydnabod yr anawsterau y mae'r Aelod yn eu disgrifio? A chredaf fod yna broblemau lle mae gennym setliad sy'n aneglur ac wedi torri, ac rwyf wedi gwneud yr achos hwnnw ar sawl achlysur. Nid yw'r ffordd y caiff plismona yn arbennig, a'r gwasanaethau cosbi eu darparu ar hyn o bryd yn rhoi'r ateb gorau i'n galluogi i ddarparu gwasanaethau, fel y mae'n disgrifio, i bobl ledled Cymru. Rwy'n derbyn hynny, a gobeithiaf y bydd y Swyddfa Gartref, y Weinyddiaeth Gyfiawnder a rhannau eraill o Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig yn gwrando ar yr achos hwnnw.
O ran y gwasanaethau a ddarperir yn ardal Abertawe, yn amlwg, nid wyf yn gyfarwydd â'r materion a godwyd ganddi y prynhawn yma. Ond os yw'n barod i ysgrifennu ataf, rwy'n fodlon codi'r materion hynny a sicrhau ei bod yn cael ymateb yn y modd cyfannol a chynhwysfawr y mae'n disgwyl ei weld, a hynny'n gwbl briodol, oherwydd rwy'n cytuno â hynny. Rwy'n credu ein bod angen ymagwedd lawer mwy cynhwysfawr tuag at gamddefnyddio sylweddau o ran trin pobl, cynnal pobl mewn llety, a lle bo angen, sicrhau bod ganddynt y modd i gael eu trin, a'u trin yn briodol, er mwyn rhoi diwedd ar gamddefnyddio sylweddau, a'u galluogi i symud ymlaen a byw eu bywydau. Dyna ein huchelgais, a dyna rydym yn gweithio tuag ato.
Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, David Melding.
Conservative spokesperson, David Melding.
Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Following on from yesterday's debate on affordable housing in Wales, I would like to touch upon some important broader concerns that weren't raised in the debate. My concerns particularly regard the futureproofing of the increased supply of housing that we need and how we can build homes at volume that meet the needs and demands of future generations, particularly regarding energy efficiency. We are currently experiencing the struggle of modernising homes that weren't futureproofed when they were built originally, or indeed with any sense of adaptability in mind, and, ideally, we need to learn from history and not repeat this mistake. So, what support is being given to the sector so that they can build at volume the houses that we need to the standards that are going to be sustainable in the twenty-first century?
Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd. Yn dilyn y ddadl ddoe ar dai fforddiadwy yng Nghymru, hoffwn gyffwrdd ar rai pryderon ehangach pwysig na chawsant eu codi yn y ddadl. Mae fy mhryderon yn ymwneud yn arbennig â sicrhau bod y cyflenwad cynyddol o dai sydd eu hangen arnom yn addas ar gyfer y dyfodol a sut y gallwn adeiladu digon o gartrefi i ddiwallu anghenion a gofynion cenedlaethau'r dyfodol, yn enwedig o ran effeithlonrwydd ynni. Ar hyn o bryd, rydym yn wynebu'r her o foderneiddio cartrefi na chawsant eu gwneud yn addas ar gyfer y dyfodol pan gawsant eu hadeiladu'n wreiddiol, na chydag unrhyw hyblygrwydd i allu addasu, ac yn ddelfrydol, mae angen i ni ddysgu o hanes a pheidio ag ailadrodd y camgymeriad hwn. Felly, pa gymorth sy'n cael ei roi i'r sector fel y gallant adeiladu'r niferoedd mawr o dai o safon sydd eu hangen i fod yn gynaliadwy yn yr unfed ganrif ar hugain?
Thank you for the question. Of course, our innovative housing programme is certainly at the heart of our response to this serious challenge that's facing us in terms of creating homes that are low carbon—carbon zero ideally—and we've got some excellent projects coming forward now and being built and we're learning from them already from our last year's stream of projects. But, this time, we're very keen to build on some of those projects from last year, but also to look for projects where we are scaling up. So, we've invited projects for this second year, and the applications close this week for projects on a grander scale really, so that we can start scaling up some of the exciting work that's already being undertaken through the innovative housing programme.
Also, we know that although we're doing a huge amount of work to try and support SMEs back into the sector, we do need to ensure that the volume builders are working in this way as well. So, we've done some work with our home builder engagement programme in terms of what we can be doing in future, looking potentially at the future of Help to Buy. That's been extremely popular, as you can imagine, amongst the volume builders, but it is an important lever that we do have, so we need to be considering how we use it to achieve our broader aims across Government.
Diolch i chi am y cwestiwn. Wrth gwrs, mae ein rhaglen tai arloesol yn sicr yn ganolog i'n hymateb i'r her ddifrifol sy'n ein hwynebu mewn perthynas â chreu cartrefi carbon isel—di-garbon yn ddelfrydol—ac mae gennym brosiectau rhagorol yn cael eu cyflwyno yn awr ac yn cael eu hadeiladu ac rydym eisoes yn dysgu oddi wrthynt o'n ffrwd o brosiectau y llynedd. Ond, y tro hwn, rydym yn awyddus iawn i adeiladu ar rai o'r prosiectau hynny ers y llynedd, ond hefyd i edrych am brosiectau lle rydym yn uwchraddio. Felly, rydym wedi gwahodd prosiectau ar gyfer yr ail flwyddyn hon, ac mae dyddiad cau'r ceisiadau yr wythnos hon ar gyfer prosiectau ar raddfa fwy mewn gwirionedd, fel y gallwn ddechrau uwchraddio rhywfaint o'r gwaith cyffrous sydd eisoes yn cael ei wneud drwy'r rhaglen tai arloesol.
Hefyd, er ein bod yn gwneud llawer iawn o waith i geisio estyn cymorth i fusnesau bach a chanolig ddychwelyd i'r sector, gwyddom fod angen i ni sicrhau bod yr adeiladwyr mwy o faint yn gweithio yn y ffordd hon hefyd. Felly, rydym wedi gwneud gwaith gyda'n rhaglen ymgysylltu ag adeiladwyr cartrefi ar yr hyn y gallwn ei wneud yn y dyfodol, gan edrych ar ddyfodol Cymorth i Brynu o bosibl. Mae hwnnw wedi bod yn hynod boblogaidd, fel y gallwch ei ddychmygu, ymhlith yr adeiladwyr mwy, ond mae'n ddull pwysig sydd gennym, felly mae angen i ni ystyried sut rydym yn ei defnyddio i gyflawni ein hamcanion ehangach ar draws y Llywodraeth.
Thank you for that, which is in part encouraging. As you know, the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee has been looking at this whole issue of energy efficiency in housing. Our evidence has suggested that there is a significant number of barriers to delivering transformative change in house building in Wales at the moment. The Home Builders Federation expressed concern that transformative change will result in fewer houses being built, and other organisations, including Caerphilly County Borough Council and the Federation of Master Builders Cymru, echoed concerns that there are already a number of challenges to building the number of affordable homes needed, particularly if housing targets are to be met.
This doesn't sound like the sector are prepared for the challenges ahead, and I think that we've really got to push them because we need much more response from them, and ambition. For instance, we've seen this week that the UK Government has released its ambitious Road to Zero strategy, which includes a proposal for all new homes in suburban England to be fitted with electronic car charging points. This is the type of integrated policy that we need, and I do hope that—. The innovation fund is a great idea, but it needs to lead quickly to mainstreaming those great developments that we know are going to work, such as charging points built into new homes as standard. I do hope that you will challenge the sector, particularly the private house builders, to improve their practice.
Diolch i chi am hynny, sydd, yn rhannol, yn galonogol. Fel y gwyddoch, mae'r Pwyllgor Newid Hinsawdd, Amgylchedd a Materion Gwledig wedi bod yn edrych ar holl fater effeithlonrwydd ynni mewn tai. Mae ein tystiolaeth wedi awgrymu bod nifer sylweddol o rwystrau i gyflawni newid trawsnewidiol yn y gwaith o adeiladu tai yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd. Mae'r Ffederasiwn Adeiladu Cartrefi wedi mynegi pryder y bydd newid trawsnewidiol yn arwain at lai o dai yn cael eu hadeiladu, ac mae sefydliadau eraill, gan gynnwys Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Caerffili a Ffederasiwn y Meistr Adeiladwyr Cymru, wedi adleisio pryderon fod yna nifer o heriau eisoes i adeiladu'r nifer angenrheidiol o dai fforddiadwy, yn enwedig os yw targedau tai'n mynd i gael eu cyrraedd.
Nid yw'n swnio fel pe bai'r sector yn barod am yr heriau sy'n ei wynebu, a chredaf fod yn rhaid i ni eu gwthio o ddifrif oherwydd rydym angen llawer mwy o ymateb ganddynt, ac uchelgais. Er enghraifft, rydym wedi gweld yr wythnos hon fod Llywodraeth y DU wedi rhyddhau ei strategaeth uchelgeisiol 'Road to Zero', sy'n cynnwys cynnig i osod mannau gwefru ceir electronig ym mhob cartref newydd ym maestrefi Lloegr. Dyma'r math o bolisi integredig rydym ei angen, ac rwy'n gobeithio—. Mae'r gronfa arloesi yn syniad gwych, ond mae angen iddo arwain yn gyflym at brif ffrydio'r datblygiadau mawr y gwyddom y byddant yn gweithio, fel gosod mannau gwefru mewn cartrefi newydd fel mater o drefn. Rwy'n gobeithio y byddwch yn herio'r sector, yn enwedig yr adeiladwyr tai preifat, i wella eu harferion.
Thank you, and I certainly think that this is the time now to be having that challenging discussion with the volume house builders, particularly because I was quite disappointed to read some of the evidence that the committee has received, which almost suggested that everything's fine, 'Let's not change anything'. But everything's not fine, and we do need to change things. We are currently building houses, but I suspect that, in years to come, we will be coming back to retrofit as well, and that's an expense that the homeowners don't want and it's an expense that the Government doesn't want. So, we do need to be changing the way we build houses. I do feel that the innovative housing programme that we have here in Wales, alongside all of the great practice that we're watching evolve in other parts of the world as well, is pulling us to a point where we are at the point of a revolution in the way in which we build houses. I would love to see the volume house builders be part of that revolution.
Traditionally, it has been the small builders who have been able to or have been willing to take the risks in terms of building homes in a different way, and we're absolutely supporting that. So, the innovative housing programme this time is now open to private businesses to take those exciting steps, but it is for the large builders to be stepping up to the plate in terms of changing the way that they build things. We're absolutely committed to working with the sector, but we're not afraid to be pushing the sector where we need to as well.
Diolch i chi, ac rwy'n sicr yn credu ei bod yn bryd i ni gael y drafodaeth heriol honno gyda'r adeiladwyr tai mawr yn awr, yn enwedig am fy mod yn siomedig i ddarllen peth o'r dystiolaeth y mae'r pwyllgor wedi'i chael, a oedd bron yn awgrymu bod popeth yn iawn, 'Gadewch i ni beidio â newid unrhyw beth'. Ond nid yw popeth yn iawn, ac mae angen i ni newid pethau. Ar hyn o bryd, rydym yn adeiladu tai, ond rwy'n amau, mewn blynyddoedd i ddod, y byddwn yn dychwelyd er mwyn ôl-osod yn ogystal, ac mae honno'n gost nad yw perchnogion tai ei heisiau ac mae'n gost nad yw'r Llywodraeth ei heisiau. Felly, mae angen i ni newid y ffordd rydym yn adeiladu tai. Rwy'n teimlo bod y rhaglen tai arloesol sydd gennym yma yng Nghymru, ochr yn ochr â'r holl arferion gwych rydym yn eu gweld yn datblygu mewn rhannau eraill o'r byd hefyd, yn ein harwain at bwynt pan ydym ar drothwy chwyldro yn y ffordd rydym yn adeiladu tai. Buaswn wrth fy modd pe bai'r adeiladwyr tai mawr yn rhan o'r chwyldro hwnnw.
Yn draddodiadol, yr adeiladwyr bach sydd wedi gallu neu sydd wedi bod yn barod i wynebu risgiau o ran adeiladu cartrefi mewn ffordd wahanol, ac rydym yn cefnogi hynny'n llwyr. Felly, y tro hwn, mae'r rhaglen tai arloesol yn agored i fusnesau preifat gymryd y camau cyffrous hynny, ond yr adeiladwyr mawr a ddylai fod yn camu i'r adwy o ran newid y ffordd y maent yn adeiladu pethau. Rydym yn gwbl ymrwymedig i weithio gyda'r sector, ond nid oes gennym ofn gwthio'r sector i ble sydd angen inni ei wthio yn ogystal.
Minister, we in the Welsh Conservatives recently released an urban strategy that will create, we hope, cities that are fit for the twenty-first century and I'm glad my colleagues, at least, have read the paper.
Weinidog, yn ddiweddar, cyhoeddwyd strategaeth drefol gennym ni, y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig, y gobeithiwn y bydd yn creu dinasoedd sy'n addas ar gyfer yr unfed ganrif ar hugain ac rwy'n falch fod fy nghyd-Aelodau, o leiaf, wedi darllen y papur.
Are you sure? [Laughter.]
A ydych chi'n siŵr? [Chwerthin.]
I've set an exam, don't worry.
This includes some elements of housing policy and we will be producing a further document specifically on housing in the autumn. But one area that we did look at in that strategy was green roofing. There are housing developments now throughout England—one example being in Barking in London—where developers are exploring the use of green roofs on housing because of the positive impact they have on thermal insulation, stormwater attenuation, improved air quality, improved water quality, creating habitats for pollinators and improving one's sense of well-being and the number of green spaces around us. I think that the Welsh Government's innovative housing programme could be an obvious way of exploring this type of innovation in Wales, and I do hope that we will see some pilots coming forward now in terms of green roofing, because some UK cities now clearly see this as a very good way of developing effective housing in the twenty-first century.
Rwyf wedi gosod prawf, peidiwch â phoeni.
Mae hyn yn cynnwys rhai elfennau o'r polisi tai a byddwn yn cynhyrchu dogfen arall yn benodol ar dai yn yr hydref. Ond un maes rydym wedi edrych arno yn y strategaeth yw toeon gwyrdd. Mae yna ddatblygiadau tai bellach ledled Lloegr—ac mae un enghraifft yn Barking yn Llundain—lle mae datblygwyr yn ymchwilio i'r defnydd o doeau gwyrdd ar dai oherwydd yr effaith gadarnhaol y maent yn ei chael ar inswleiddio thermol, gwanhau llif dŵr storm, gwella ansawdd aer, gwella ansawdd dŵr, creu cynefinoedd ar gyfer pryfed peillio a gwella'r ymdeimlad o lesiant a nifer y mannau gwyrdd o'n cwmpas. Credaf y gallai rhaglen tai arloesol Llywodraeth Cymru fod yn ffordd amlwg o edrych ar y math hwn o arloesedd yng Nghymru, ac rwy'n gobeithio y byddwn yn gweld cynlluniau peilot yn cael eu cyflwyno yn awr mewn perthynas â thoeau gwyrdd, oherwydd mae rhai dinasoedd yn y DU yn amlwg bellach yn gweld hon fel ffordd dda iawn o ddatblygu tai effeithiol yn yr unfed ganrif ar hugain.
Yes, I agree, and I've certainly read your document, and I look forward to the housing document coming forward in the autumn as well.
I share your excitement about green roofs and we've seen some really good examples already. The Down to Earth project in my own constituency, in Gower, has built buildings with green roofs and they've found it to be not only good in terms of the structure of a building, but actually good for the soul in terms of the people who are working there. It seems to be something that creates the kind of environment that certainly contributes to good well-being, alongside the important role that it plays in terms of decarbonisation and so on. So, there are plenty of opportunities there, but it's not only within the housing portfolio or the housing part of my work that I'm keen to explore this. I was at a recent meeting of the hub that has started to work in Ammanford and Cross Hands. They're looking at regeneration projects in the Carmarthenshire area. One of the pieces of work that they are doing in terms of preparing the buildings that they're going to be introducing, to increase jobs and so on, they're including green roofs there. So, I think that green roofs should be thought of as part of our regeneration ambitions, as well as how we see the building of houses particularly.
Ie, rwy'n cytuno, ac rwy'n sicr wedi darllen eich dogfen, ac edrychaf ymlaen at weld y ddogfen ar dai yn yr hydref hefyd.
Rhannaf eich cyffro ynglŷn â thoeau gwyrdd ac rydym eisoes wedi gweld enghreifftiau da iawn. Mae'r prosiect Down to Earth yn fy etholaeth, yng Ngŵyr, wedi adeiladu adeiladau gyda thoeau gwyrdd a gwelsant fod hynny'n dda, nid yn unig o ran strwythur yr adeilad, ond yn dda i'r enaid o ran y bobl sy'n gweithio yno. Mae i'w weld yn rhywbeth sy'n creu'r math o amgylchedd sy'n sicr yn cyfrannu at lesiant, ochr yn ochr â'r rôl bwysig y mae'n ei chwarae o ran datgarboneiddio ac ati. Felly, mae digonedd o gyfleoedd yno, ond rwy'n awyddus i archwilio hyn beth bynnag, nid yn unig o fewn y portffolio tai neu o fewn y rhan o fy ngwaith sy'n ymwneud â thai. Roeddwn mewn cyfarfod diweddar o'r hyb sydd wedi dechrau gweithio yn Rhydaman a Cross Hands. Maent yn edrych ar brosiectau adfywio yn ardal sir Gaerfyrddin. Mae toeau gwyrdd yn un o'r pethau y maent yn eu gwneud o ran paratoi'r adeiladau y byddant yn eu cyflwyno, er mwyn cynyddu nifer swyddi ac ati. Felly, credaf y dylid ystyried toeau gwyrdd fel rhan o'n huchelgeisiau adfywio, yn ogystal â sut rydym yn edrych ar adeiladu tai yn benodol.
3. Pa gynlluniau sydd gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet i hyrwyddo diwygio etholiadol o fewn llywodraeth leol? OAQ52500
3. What plans does the Cabinet Secretary have to promote electoral reform in local government? OAQ52500
Following the consultation held last year, I made an oral statement on these matters in January. I will include electoral reform provisions within a local government Bill we expect next year. I will work closely with local government and others in order to raise public knowledge of the reforms that are planned for the 2022 local government elections.
Yn dilyn yr ymgynghoriad a gynhaliwyd y llynedd, gwneuthum ddatganiad llafar ar y materion hyn ym mis Ionawr. Byddaf yn cynnwys darpariaethau diwygio etholiadol o fewn Bil llywodraeth leol rydym yn ei ddisgwyl y flwyddyn nesaf. Byddaf yn gweithio'n agos gyda llywodraeth leol ac eraill er mwyn cynyddu gwybodaeth y cyhoedd am y diwygiadau a gynlluniwyd ar gyfer etholiadau llywodraeth leol 2022.
I thank the Cabinet Secretary for that response. Has the Cabinet Secretary had any indications from local authorities that they would consider moving to a proportional representation system for local elections? And would he agree that such a system would be a fairer system and may help increase interest and participation in local elections?
Diolch i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet am yr ymateb hwnnw. A yw Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet wedi cael unrhyw awgrym gan awdurdodau lleol y byddent yn ystyried newid i system gynrychiolaeth gyfrannol ar gyfer etholiadau lleol? Ac a fyddai'n cytuno y byddai system o'r fath yn system decach ac y gallai helpu i gynyddu diddordeb a chyfranogiad mewn etholiadau lleol?
I have to say to the Member that I have not received any indication of those matters from any part of local government, but I have to say that I do agree with her. Like herself, I agree with the single transferable vote system, and that is my preferred system as well. I guess we will both be arguing for that formulation during the consultation in the Welsh Labour Party over the coming months. The Welsh Government has a clear policy on this matter. We have an agreement to introduce an optional move to the STV system, which local government can choose if they so wish to do. Personally, I would encourage all local authorities to do so. I believe that the single transferable vote system does deliver a fairer system. It delivers greater diversity and greater democratic accountability. So, I hope, alongside the Member for Cardiff North, that local government will embrace a move to proportionality over the coming years.
Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud wrth yr Aelod nad oes unrhyw ran o lywodraeth leol wedi awgrymu'r materion hynny i mi, ond mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud fy mod yn cytuno â hi. Fel hithau, cytunaf â system y bleidlais sengl drosglwyddadwy, a dyna yw fy hoff system innau hefyd. Rwy'n tybio y bydd y ddau ohonom yn dadlau dros y datganiad hwnnw yn ystod ymgynghoriad Plaid Lafur Cymru dros y misoedd nesaf. Mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru bolisi clir ar y mater hwn. Mae gennym gytundeb i gyflwyno newid opsiynol i system y bleidlais sengl drosglwyddadwy, y gall llywodraeth leol ei dewis os ydynt yn dymuno gwneud hynny. Yn bersonol, buaswn yn annog pob awdurdod lleol i wneud hynny. Credaf fod y bleidlais sengl drosglwyddadwy yn system decach. Mae'n sicrhau mwy o amrywiaeth a mwy o atebolrwydd democrataidd. Felly, fel yr Aelod dros Ogledd Caerdydd, rwy'n gobeithio y bydd llywodraeth leol yn croesawu newid i system gyfrannol dros y blynyddoedd nesaf.
Cabinet Secretary, you may have heard my question to the First Minister yesterday in regard to an ex-Montgomeryshire person who feels disenfranchised by the electoral system, as an overseas voter—[Interruption.] I'm not sure which way this particular constituent does cast their vote. I'm not sure whether the First Minister quite understood the intention of my question, so I wanted to raise it with you. From my understanding, this person is allowed to vote in the general elections but is barred from voting in Welsh Assembly or local government elections because they are considered so-called second-order elections. The issue here is that if a Welsh resident moves overseas, they can vote in Welsh elections. If a Welsh resident moves to an English or Scottish address, and then moves overseas, they can't decide which nation to place them in if they live overseas. Is there anything that can be done to ensure that Welsh nationals who wish to do so can take part in Welsh Assembly elections or local government elections in Wales?
Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, efallai eich bod wedi clywed fy nghwestiwn i'r Prif Weinidog ddoe mewn perthynas ag unigolyn oedd yn dod o sir Drefaldwyn sy'n teimlo ei fod wedi'i ddifreinio gan y system etholiadol, fel pleidleisiwr tramor—[Torri ar draws.] Nid wyf yn siŵr pa ffordd y mae'r etholwr penodol yn bwrw ei bleidlais. Nid wyf yn siŵr a ddeallodd y Prif Weinidog fwriad fy nghwestiwn, felly roeddwn eisiau ei godi gyda chi. Yn ôl yr hyn rwy'n ei ddeall, mae'r unigolyn dan sylw yn cael pleidleisio yn yr etholiadau cyffredinol ond mae wedi'i wahardd rhag pleidleisio yn etholiadau Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru neu mewn etholiadau llywodraeth leol gan y cânt eu hystyried yn etholiadau ail ddosbarth. Y broblem yma yw, os yw rhywun sy'n byw yng Nghymru yn symud dramor, gallant bleidleisio yn etholiadau Cymru. Os yw rhywun sy'n byw yng Nghymru yn symud i gyfeiriad yn Lloegr neu'r Alban, ac yna'n symud dramor, ni allant benderfynu pa genedl i'w gosod ynddi os ydynt yn byw dramor. A oes unrhyw beth y gellir ei wneud i sicrhau y gall gwladolion Cymreig sy'n dymuno gwneud hynny gymryd rhan yn etholiadau Cynulliad Cymru neu mewn etholiadau llywodraeth leol yng Nghymru?
Presiding Officer, I'm not sure where to start. The result in Montgomeryshire last year has clearly worried my good friend from that part of the world. I will say to him very gently that I'm afraid that the First Minister understood exactly and precisely the question that he was asking yesterday, and the First Minister's response is one that I'm afraid I will repeat this afternoon.
Lywydd, nid wyf yn siŵr ble i ddechrau. Mae'r canlyniad yn sir Drefaldwyn y llynedd yn amlwg wedi poeni fy nghyfaill o'r rhan honno o'r byd. Rwyf am ddweud wrtho'n garedig iawn fod arnaf ofn fod y Prif Weinidog wedi deall y cwestiwn roedd yn ei ofyn ddoe yn iawn, ac mae arnaf ofn fy mod am ailadrodd ymateb y Prif Weinidog y prynhawn yma.
A former employee of Cardiff council has recently been to see me regarding a serious employment issue. He fell foul of an outdated provision in the Local Government Act 1972, which meant that, after his term as an elected councillor came to an end, he was barred from working for that council for 12 months. It was only after he had worked for the council for six months did they realise that they had fallen foul of this provision. Despite no performance issues, and with complete indignity, they sacked him on the spot. He received no support from the council. They failed to accommodate any alternative employment options and, after 13 months, they appointed someone else to the role, despite that individual reapplying for their own job back. The council has refused a dialogue and failed to respond to a subject access request, and now faces a tribunal as a result. Will the Cabinet Secretary agree to look into this case and the issue in general to ensure a fair outcome for this individual and others who could fall foul of this outdated rule in the future? I would be more than happy to write to you with more detail if necessary.
Bu cyn-weithiwr o gyngor Caerdydd yn fy ngweld yn ddiweddar mewn perthynas â mater difrifol yn ymwneud â chyflogaeth. Tramgwyddodd yn erbyn darpariaeth yn Neddf Llywodraeth Leol 1972, a oedd yn golygu, ar ôl i'w gyfnod fel cynghorydd etholedig ddod i ben, ei fod wedi'i wahardd rhag gweithio i'r cyngor hwnnw am 12 mis. Roedd wedi bod yn gweithio i'r cyngor am chwe mis pan sylweddolwyd eu bod wedi tramgwyddo'r ddarpariaeth hon. Er nad oedd unrhyw broblemau gyda'i berfformiad, a chydag amarch llwyr, cafodd ei ddiswyddo yn y fan a'r lle. Ni chafodd unrhyw gymorth gan y cyngor. Maent wedi methu darparu unrhyw opsiynau cyflogaeth amgen iddo ac ar ôl 13 mis, maent wedi penodi rhywun arall i'r swydd, er bod yr unigolyn wedi gwneud cais am ei swydd ei hun yn ôl. Mae'r cyngor wedi gwrthod cyfathrebu ac wedi methu ymateb i gais gwrthrych am wybodaeth, ac mae bellach yn wynebu tribiwnlys o ganlyniad. A wnaiff Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet gytuno i edrych ar yr achos hwn a'r mater yn gyffredinol i sicrhau canlyniad teg i'r unigolyn hwn ac eraill a allai dramgwyddo'r hen reol hon yn y dyfodol? Buaswn yn fwy na pharod i ysgrifennu atoch gyda mwy o fanylion os oes angen.
I'm grateful for the Member's offer of correspondence on this matter. It does seem to me a better way of dealing with employment matters than raising them on the floor of the house.
Rwy'n ddiolchgar i'r Aelod am gynnig gohebu ar y mater hwn. Ymddengys i mi fod honno'n ffordd well o ymdrin â materion cyflogaeth na'u codi yn y Siambr.
Cwestiwn 4, Nick Ramsay.
Question 4, Nick Ramsay.
[Inaudible.]—change in the law.
[Anghlywadwy.]—newid yn y gyfraith.
You should have said that then.
Dylech fod wedi dweud hynny felly.
Carry on, Nick Ramsay.
Parhewch, Nick Ramsey.
Thank you. Is that a film? [Laughter.]
Diolch. Ai ffilm yw honno? [Chwerthin.]
4. Sut y mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn bwriadu gweithio gydag awdurdodau lleol i dreialu dulliau pleidleisio newydd? OAQ52487
4. How does the Cabinet Secretary intend to work with local authorities to pilot new voting methods? OAQ52487
My officials are already working with the Association of Electoral Administrators, the Wales electoral co-ordination board, the electoral reform programme board, as well as holding workshops across Wales with local authorities to discuss these and other electoral changes.
Mae fy swyddogion eisoes yn gweithio gyda Chymdeithas y Gweinyddwyr Etholiadol, bwrdd cydlynu etholiadol Cymru, bwrdd y rhaglen diwygio etholiadol, a hefyd yn cynnal gweithdai ledled Cymru gydag awdurdodau lleol i drafod y materion hyn a newidiadau etholiadol eraill.
Diolch, Gweinidog—or Cabinet Secretary, I should say. My question is nowhere near as exciting or interesting as Russ George's was regarding voting rights abroad. You've said—and forgive me, because I do have this on my phone—. If I can just quote the figures, first of all, for the last set of local council elections in Wales in May 2017, I think the voting turnout was 42 per cent, compared with 68.6 per cent for the general election, and 45.5 per cent for the 2016 Assembly election. You've said that local democracy is all about participation, and you want to increase the franchise to 16-year-olds and to those in prison, to name but a few.
While this side of the Chamber accepts that increasing the franchise, in certain areas at least, is certainly not a bad thing, would you accept that there is a concern that, by doing that, you could be masking a problem by avoiding from this point on a like-for-like comparison with general elections and with the Assembly elections as well? I probably haven't explained that too well myself either, Russ. So, while increasing the franchise in some areas is to be welcomed as a good thing—and certainly in terms of 16-year-olds, I would agree with that increase—at the same time we won't be able to look at these figures in future and say, 'The council election votes are worse than others.' Shouldn't you be addressing the basic problem, which is that people already registered to vote are not voting enough in council elections?
Diolch, Weinidog—neu Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, dylwn ddweud. Nid yw fy nghwestiwn yn agos at fod mor gyffrous a diddorol a chwestiwn Russ George ynglŷn â hawliau pleidleisio tramor. Rydych wedi dweud—a maddeuwch i mi, gan fod hwn ar fy ffôn—. Os caf ddyfynnu'r ffigurau, yn gyntaf oll, ar gyfer y set olaf o etholiadau cynghorau lleol yng Nghymru ym mis Mai 2017, credaf mai 42 y cant a bleidleisiodd i gyd, o'i gymharu â 68.6 y cant ar gyfer yr etholiad cyffredinol, a 45.5 y cant ar gyfer etholiad y Cynulliad yn 2016. Rydych wedi dweud bod democratiaeth leol yn ymwneud â chyfranogiad, ac rydych yn dymuno ymestyn yr etholfraint i gynnwys unigolion 16 oed a'r rhai sydd yn y carchar, i enwi ond rhai.
Er bod yr ochr hon o'r Siambr yn sicr yn derbyn nad yw cynyddu'r etholfraint, mewn rhai ardaloedd o leiaf, yn beth drwg, a fyddech yn derbyn bod yna bryder, drwy wneud hynny, y gallech fod yn cuddio problem drwy osgoi, o'r pwynt hwn ymlaen, gymhariaeth tebyg am debyg gydag etholiadau cyffredinol ac etholiadau'r Cynulliad hefyd? Mae'n debyg nad wyf wedi egluro hynny'n rhy dda chwaith, Russ. Felly, er bod cynyddu'r etholfraint mewn rhai ardaloedd yn rhywbeth i'w groesawu fel peth da—ac yn sicr o ran unigolion 16 oed, buaswn yn cytuno gyda'r cynnydd hwnnw—ar yr un pryd, ni fyddwn yn gallu edrych ar y ffigurau hyn yn y dyfodol a dweud, 'Mae nifer y pleidleisiau yn etholiadau'r cyngor yn waeth nag eraill.' Oni ddylech fynd i'r afael â'r broblem sylfaenol, sef nad oes digon o bobl sydd eisoes wedi cofrestru i bleidleisio yn pleidleisio yn etholiadau'r cyngor?
[Inaudible.] numbers.
[Anghlywadwy.] niferoedd.
Presiding Officer, the Plaid Cymru Member for Mid and West Wales has answered the question as comprehensively from his seat as I could from here. You are, of course, comparing a percentage of the electorate whatever the electorate happens to be in that election. So, it continues to be absolutely and completely comparable. I don't know if my good friend from another part of Monmouthshire is seeking to argue against changes in this way. I hope he isn't, because that is singularly the worst argument that I've heard put in many years. I'll say to the Member for Montgomeryshire, or Monmouthshire—[Laughter.] We're all worried about the election result for Montgomeryshire now.
I'll say to my friend from Monmouthshire that we are seeking to put in place a number of changes, and the purpose of those changes is to persuade more people to take part in local elections, to increase the number of people able to take part in elections and to enable greater democratic accountability locally. All of these are very positive things, and I hope that we will have support on all sides of the Chamber.
Lywydd, mae'r Aelod Plaid Cymru dros Ganolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru wedi ateb y cwestiwn o'i sedd mor gynhwysfawr ag y gallwn i o'r fan hon. Rydych chi, wrth gwrs, yn cymharu canran o'r pleidleiswyr ni waeth beth yw nifer y pleidleiswyr yn yr etholiad hwnnw'n digwydd bod. Felly, mae'n parhau i fod yn hollol ac yn gwbl gymaradwy. Ni wn a yw fy ffrind da o ran arall o sir Fynwy yn ceisio dadlau yn erbyn newidiadau yn y modd hwn. Gobeithio nad yw, oherwydd dyna'r ddadl waethaf i mi ei chlywed ers nifer o flynyddoedd. Rwyf am ddweud wrth yr Aelod dros sir Drefaldwyn, neu sir Fynwy—[Chwerthin.] Mae pawb ohonom yn pryderu ynglŷn â chanlyniad yr etholiad yn sir Drefaldwyn bellach.
Rwyf am ddweud wrth fy ffrind o sir Fynwy ein bod yn ceisio rhoi nifer o newidiadau ar waith, a diben y newidiadau hynny yw darbwyllo mwy o bobl i gymryd rhan mewn etholiadau lleol, cynyddu nifer y bobl sy'n gallu cymryd rhan mewn etholiadau a galluogi mwy o atebolrwydd democrataidd yn lleol. Mae'r rhain i gyd yn bethau cadarnhaol iawn, a gobeithiaf y cawn gefnogaeth o bob ochr i'r Siambr.
The first thing any voting system needs to be is secure. We should have a system that does not allow either multivoting or the harvesting of votes. We do, however, need to make it easier to vote. Has the Welsh Government considered supporting two simple innovations: allowing early voting at a central voting centre, and, secondly, allowing voting at any polling station in a constituency?
Y peth cyntaf y mae angen i unrhyw system bleidleisio fod yw diogel. Dylai fod gennym system nad yw'n caniatáu pleidleisio fwy nag unwaith na chynaeafu pleidleisiau. Fodd bynnag, mae angen inni ei gwneud yn haws i bobl bleidleisio. A yw Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ystyried cefnogi dau newid syml: caniatáu pleidleisio cynnar mewn canolfan bleidleisio ganolog, ac yn ail, caniatáu pleidleisio mewn unrhyw orsaf bleidleisio o fewn etholaeth?
Presiding Officer, we are very happy to consider both of those suggestions. I would look towards electronic voting, voting on different days, such as the weekend, mobile polling stations, electronic voting, and electronic counting as well. The point that the Member for Swansea East makes about the security of the ballot is well made and accepted. We are working closely with an expert strategic group—the electoral reform programme board—upon which there are a number of representatives who are looking at ensuring that we have the security of a ballot as a prerequisite but then looking creatively at how we move forward, enabling more people to take part in local democracy. That is our objective and that is what we seek to achieve.
Lywydd, rydym yn hapus iawn i ystyried y ddau awgrym. Buaswn yn edrych ar bleidleisio electronig, pleidleisio ar ddiwrnodau gwahanol, megis dros y penwythnos, gorsafoedd pleidleisio symudol, pleidleisio electronig, a chyfrif electronig yn ogystal. Mae'r pwynt y mae'r Aelod dros Ddwyrain Abertawe wedi'i wneud am ddiogelwch y bleidlais yn un da ac rwy'n ei dderbyn. Rydym yn gweithio'n agos gyda grŵp strategol arbenigol—bwrdd y rhaglen diwygio etholiadol—ac mae'n cynnwys nifer o gynrychiolwyr sy'n sicrhau bod gennym bleidleisio diogel fel rhagofyniad ond sydd wedyn yn edrych yn greadigol ar sut i symud ymlaen, gan alluogi mwy o bobl i gymryd rhan mewn democratiaeth leol. Dyna ein nod, a dyna y ceisiwn ei gyflawni.
5. Pa ddarpariaeth y mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn ei gwneud ar gyfer cynnal swyddfeydd post? OAQ52506
5. What provision has the Cabinet Secretary made for maintaining post offices? OAQ52506
Nid yw materion yn ymwneud â’r Swyddfa Bost wedi’u datganoli, fel y gwyddoch. Er hynny, rwy’n ymwybodol iawn o’r gwasanaethau gwerthfawr iawn mae swyddfeydd post yn aml yn eu darparu yn ein cymunedau lleol. Mae eu swyddogaeth nhw yn arbennig o bwysig wrth i gynifer o ganghennau banciau gau ar draws Cymru.
Post Office matters are non-devolved, as you know. I am, though, very conscious of the valuable services post offices often provide to local communities. Their role is particularly important in the context of the recent programme of bank closures in Wales.
Diolch am yr ateb. Wrth gwrs, nid yw e wedi’i ddatganoli, ond mae Llywodraeth Cymru, yn y gorffennol, wedi cynnal amryw o systemau cynnal a grantiau ar gyfer swyddfeydd post. Mae newid diweddar yn y ffordd y mae’r Swyddfa Bost yn talu’r canghennau o’r taliad sylfaenol, beth maen nhw’n ei alw’n core tier payment, i daliadau fesul transaction yn cael effaith ar rai swyddfeydd post, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd cefn gwlad. Oes, mae yna bosibiliad newydd, o bryd i’w gilydd, ar gyfer bancio, ond, yn fras iawn, dyma’r taliadau hollol sylfaenol ar gyfer cwsmeriaid, er enghraifft, i roi arian am drydan a nwy, pethau syml fel yna. Mae yna dâl bach am ganiatáu hynny, ond nid yw hyd yn oed yn ddigon i gyfro’r costau cynnal staff, cynnal y ddesg ac ati.
Mi fyddaf i’n ymweld, o fewn yr wythnos nesaf, â’r Ffôr, ger Pwllheli, lle mae yna swyddfa bost sy’n wynebu’r broblem, yr anhawster, yma. A ydych chi’n cael trafodaethau â busnes y Swyddfa Bost ynglŷn â’r newid i daliadau yma? Ac a ydych chi mewn sefyllfa i edrych ar beth ymhellach a allai gael ei wneud i wneud yn siŵr nad ydym yn colli’r adnodd pwysig yma? Fel rŷch chi’n ei ddweud, rydym ni eisoes yn colli’r banciau. Mae hwn yn rhywbeth sydd eisiau ei gadw, yn enwedig yn ein pentrefi a’n trefi bach ni.
Thank you for that response. Of course, it is non-devolved, but the Welsh Government in the past has had a number of programmes to support post offices. A recent change in the way that the Post Office pays branches from what they call the 'core tier' payment to a per-transaction payment is having an impact on some post offices, particularly in rural areas. Yes, there are new possibilities from time to time in terms of banking, but, broadly speaking, these are fundamental payments for customers to pay for electricity and gas, for example. There is a small charge for doing that, but it's not even enough to cover the cost of paying staff and maintaining desk services and so on.
Over the next week, I will be visiting Y Ffôr near Pwllheli, where there is a post office facing this particular difficulty. Are you having any discussions with the Post Office in terms of changes to these payments? And are you in a position to look at what further could be done to ensure that we don't lose this important resource? As you say, we are already losing our banks, and this is something that we need to retain, particularly in our villages and small towns.
Rydw i’n ymwybodol bod yr Aelod wedi ysgrifennu ataf i ar y mater yma ac rydw i wedi ymateb ar hynny. Mae’n bosibl, wrth gwrs, i swyddfeydd post elwa o business rate relief ac rydw i’n gobeithio y bydd swyddfeydd post yn ceisio am hynny ac yn sicrhau eu bod nhw’n cael hynny. Ar ben hynny, mae £1.3 miliwn wedi cael ei roi i awdurdodau lleol ar gyfer eu defnydd nhw os ydyn nhw’n gweld bod yna adnodd, yn y ffordd y mae e’n ei ddisgrifio, mewn perygl o gael ei golli. Maen nhw’n gallu cynnig tipyn bach o gymorth ychwanegol ar hynny. Ond rydw i’n ymwybodol bod yr Aelod yn codi materion mewnol y tu mewn i system y Swyddfa Bost a phetai e’n fodlon cyfarfod â fi, rydw i’n hapus iawn i drafod hynny gyda’r Swyddfa Bost yn ganolog.
I am aware that the Member has written to me on this issue, and I have responded to him. It is possible, of course, for post offices to benefit from business rate relief, and I hope that post offices will apply for that and ensure that they get that. On top of that, £1.3 million has been given to local authorities for their own use if they see that a resource, in the way that he has described, is in danger of being lost. They can offer some additional support on that. However, I am aware that the Member is raising internal issues within the Post Office's system, and, if he would be willing to meet with me, I will be very happy to discuss that with the Post Office centrally.
Cabinet Secretary, the decision by the Royal Bank of Scotland to close 162 branches in England and Wales has highlighted the importance of post offices in providing banking services, particularly in our rural areas. Given that 12 per cent of post offices are now run by part-time outreach services, such as mobile vans, and in premises like village halls, what is the Cabinet Secretary doing to ensure that communities that have lost their bank at least have access to banking services through post office outreach facilities in Wales? Thank you.
Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, mae penderfyniad Royal Bank of Scotland i gau 162 o ganghennau yng Nghymru a Lloegr wedi tynnu sylw at bwysigrwydd swyddfeydd post sy'n darparu gwasanaethau bancio, yn enwedig yn ein hardaloedd gwledig. Gan fod 12 y cant o swyddfeydd post yn awr yn cael eu rhedeg gan wasanaethau allgymorth rhan-amser, megis faniau symudol, ac mewn adeiladau megis neuaddau pentref, beth y mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn ei wneud i sicrhau bod cymunedau sydd wedi colli eu banc o leiaf yn cael mynediad at wasanaethau bancio drwy gyfleusterau allgymorth swyddfeydd post yng Nghymru? Diolch.
I have replied to the earlier question that these matters are not devolved matters, but clearly these are matters that the Welsh Government take great interest in. We do ensure that, as I have already said, we have business relief and business support to enable small businesses to receive the support of the Welsh Government and local authorities in ensuring their sustainability. But I also think that the United Kingdom Government has a very significant responsibility here, and I would very gently suggest to the Conservative Member for South Wales East that he writes to his Conservative colleagues in London and explains to them very, very carefully that the taxpayer spent a great deal of money keeping the banking system afloat and it is high time that the taxpayer received some of that resource back in terms of the regulation of banks to ensure that communities are not put in this situation. So, I would very gently say to the Member: write to your colleagues in London and tell them to pull their fingers out.
Rwyf wedi dweud mewn ymateb i'r cwestiwn cynharach nad yw'r materion hyn yn faterion datganoledig, ond mae'r rhain yn amlwg yn faterion y mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru ddiddordeb mawr ynddynt. Rydym yn sicrhau, fel y dywedais eisoes, fod gennym ryddhad ardrethi busnes a chymorth busnes i alluogi busnesau bach i gael cymorth Llywodraeth Cymru ac awdurdodau lleol er mwyn sicrhau eu cynaliadwyedd. Ond rwy'n credu hefyd fod gan Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig gyfrifoldeb sylweddol iawn yma, a buaswn yn awgrymu'n garedig iawn i'r Aelod Ceidwadol dros Ddwyrain De Cymru ei fod yn ysgrifennu at ei gyd-Aelodau Ceidwadol yn Llundain ac yn egluro wrthynt yn ofalus iawn fod y trethdalwr wedi gwario llawer iawn o arian ar gadw'r system fancio'n weithredol ac mae'n hen bryd i'r trethdalwr gael rhywfaint o'r adnoddau hynny yn ôl o ran rheoleiddio banciau i sicrhau nad yw cymunedau'n cael eu rhoi yn y sefyllfa hon. Felly, buaswn yn dweud yn garedig iawn wrth yr Aelod: ysgrifennwch at eich cyd-Aelodau yn Llundain a dywedwch wrthynt am dorchi eu llewys.
6. A wnaiff Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ddatganiad am gyllid llywodraeth leol? OAQ52502
6. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on local government funding? OAQ52502
In addition to income raised locally, local authorities received £4.2 billion of general funding to spend on services in 2018-19. This continues our commitment to protect local government in Wales from the worst of the UK Government’s spending restrictions.
Yn ogystal ag incwm a godir yn lleol, derbyniodd awdurdodau lleol £4.2 biliwn o gyllid cyffredinol i'w wario ar wasanaethau yn 2018-19. Mae hyn yn parhau ein hymrwymiad i ddiogelu llywodraeth leol yng Nghymru rhag cyfyngiadau gwaethaf Llywodraeth y DU ar wariant.
I've received many representations from schools in the Rhondda regarding the funding crisis that they face in this financial year and, of course, for the foreseeable future. Treorchy Comprehensive School alone has lost nearly £0.25 million in this financial year, with no corresponding drop in pupil numbers.
Then we have the state of some school buildings. One I visited recently posed a clear danger to the safety of pupils as a lump of concrete fell from a dilapidated roof in a classroom. Teachers are demotivated, schools dilapidated, and pupils in danger. How will you ensure that local authorities receive sufficient money to ensure that school lessons are delivered in a suitable and safe environment and that classrooms are adequately staffed?
Rwyf wedi cael llawer o sylwadau gan ysgolion yn y Rhondda ynghylch yr argyfwng ariannu sy'n eu hwynebu yn y flwyddyn ariannol hon ac wrth gwrs, yn y dyfodol y gellir ei ragweld. Mae Ysgol Gyfun Treorci wedi colli bron i £0.25 miliwn yn ystod y flwyddyn ariannol hon, heb unrhyw ostyngiad cyfatebol yn nifer y disgyblion.
Ar ben hynny, mae gennym broblem gyda chyflwr adeiladau ysgol. Roedd un ysgol yr ymwelais â hi yn ddiweddar yn beryglus i ddiogelwch disgyblion gan fod lwmp o goncrid wedi cwympo o do a oedd wedi dadfeilio i mewn i'r ystafell ddosbarth. Mae athrawon yn colli eu cymhelliant, mae ysgolion yn dadfeilio, ac mae disgyblion mewn perygl. Sut rydych chi'n mynd i sicrhau bod awdurdodau lleol yn cael digon o arian i sicrhau y darperir gwersi ysgol mewn amgylchedd addas a diogel a bod ystafelloedd dosbarth wedi'u staffio'n ddigonol?
The Member is aware of the situation facing the Welsh Government in terms of the UK Government's austerity programme. Had we received a similar funding basis this year as we received in 2010, then we would have received an additional, I think—I'm looking at the finance Minister, who I'm delighted has walked back into the Chamber at this point—an additional £4 billion—
Mae'r Aelod yn ymwybodol o'r sefyllfa sy'n wynebu Llywodraeth Cymru mewn perthynas â rhaglen gyni Llywodraeth y DU. Pe baem wedi cael sylfaen ariannu debyg i'r un a gawsom yn 2010 eleni, rwy'n credu y byddem wedi cael—rwy'n edrych ar y Gweinidog cyllid, ac rwy'n falch iawn ei fod bellach wedi dychwelyd i'r Siambr ar y pwynt hwn—£4 biliwn ychwanegol—
Four point one.
Pedwar pwynt un.
—£4.1 billion in order to sustain and support the public services that she's described. I'm not going to stand here and defend for one moment the failed UK austerity programme, but what I will say to her is that I have not met a single councillor of any political stripe who has said to me, 'What we want to see is more Conservative policy and less Labour policy.' What I've heard from every councillor across the whole of Wales is gratitude for protecting local government from the worst of the UK austerity programme.
—£4.1 biliwn er mwyn cynnal a chefnogi'r gwasanaethau cyhoeddus a ddisgrifiwyd ganddi. Nid wyf yn mynd i sefyll yma ac amddiffyn am un eiliad y rhaglen gyni aflwyddiannus yn y DU, ond rwyf am ddweud wrthi nad wyf wedi cyfarfod ag un cynghorydd o unrhyw blaid wleidyddol sydd wedi dweud wrthyf, 'Yr hyn rydym eisiau ei weld yw mwy o bolisïau Ceidwadol a llai o bolisïau Llafur.' Yr hyn rwyf wedi'i glywed gan bob cynghorydd ar draws Cymru gyfan yw diolch am ddiogelu llywodraeth leol rhag y gwaethaf o raglen gyni'r DU.
7. A wnaiff Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am ei gyfarfod diweddaraf gyda'r Weinyddiaeth Gyfiawnder? OAQ52503
7. Will the Cabinet Secretary provide an update on his latest meeting with the Ministry of Justice? OAQ52503
I am meeting with Edward Argar MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice, and Rory Stewart MP, Minister of State for Prisons, next Monday, 16 July.
Rwy'n cyfarfod ag Edward Argar AS, yr Is-Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Seneddol dros Gyfiawnder, a Rory Stewart AS, y Gweinidog Gwladol sy'n gyfrifol am garchardai, ddydd Llun nesaf, ar 16 Gorffennaf.
I thank the Cabinet Secretary for that response. Will he be pressing for a women's residential centre in Wales after the UK Government announced a new female offender strategy on 27 June? As I understand it, the five prisons that were planned to be built for women will be abandoned. Instead, there will be five residential centres for women, which I think is entirely in line with the change in justice policy for women that many of us have pressed for for a long time. So, would he be pressing for one of those centres to be built in Wales?
Diolch i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet am yr ymateb hwnnw. A fydd yn pwyso am ganolfan breswyl i fenywod yng Nghymru ar ôl i Lywodraeth y DU gyhoeddi strategaeth troseddwyr benywaidd newydd ar 27 Mehefin? Yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf, bydd y cynlluniau i adeiladu pum carchar ar gyfer menywod yn cael eu diddymu. Yn hytrach, ceir pum canolfan breswyl ar gyfer menywod, a chredaf fod hynny'n cyd-fynd yn llwyr â'r newid yn y polisi cyfiawnder ar gyfer menywod y mae llawer ohonom wedi pwyso amdano ers amser hir. Felly, a fydd yn pwyso am adeiladu un o'r canolfannau hynny yng Nghymru?
Yes, I will be. I've made the case on a number of occasions, but I believe we do need a significant investment in the secure estate in Wales. I think anybody looking at the estate as it is today would understand that it is not designed for Wales's needs and is not fit for purpose to meet our needs today and in the future.
In terms of female offending, I am very, very anxious to ensure that we have a facility in Wales—a women's centre along the lines that the Member describes—to provide support for women and, of course, to reduce the number of women in the criminal justice system. We want Welsh women to have safe and secure facilities to enable their effective care and rehabilitation. We also want to ensure that we are able to reduce the number of women in the system. To that end, we will be supporting a women's pathfinder project, which is designed to deliver a women-specific, whole-system, integrated approach to service provision for women who come into contact with the criminal justice system in Wales. So, we want to see a holistic, comprehensive approach to policy in Wales that puts the woman at the centre of that policy and doesn't simply seek to build a women's prison that doesn't meet our needs today or in the future.
Byddaf yn gwneud hynny. Rwyf wedi dadlau'r achos ar sawl achlysur, ond credaf fod angen i ni fuddsoddi'n sylweddol mewn sefydliadau diogel yng Nghymru. Credaf y byddai unrhyw un sy'n edrych ar yr ystâd fel y mae heddiw yn deall nad yw wedi'i chynllunio ar gyfer anghenion Cymru ac nid yw'n addas at y diben i ddiwallu ein hanghenion heddiw nac yn y dyfodol.
O ran troseddwyr benywaidd, rwy'n awyddus iawn i sicrhau bod gennym gyfleuster yng Nghymru—canolfan i fenywod sy'n debyg i'r hyn y mae'r Aelod yn ei ddisgrifio—i ddarparu cymorth i fenywod ac wrth gwrs, i leihau nifer y menywod yn y system cyfiawnder troseddol. Rydym eisiau i fenywod Cymru gael cyfleusterau diogel i sicrhau eu bod yn cael gofal a chymorth adsefydlu effeithiol. Rydym hefyd eisiau sicrhau ein bod yn gallu lleihau nifer y menywod yn y system. I'r perwyl hwnnw, byddwn yn cefnogi prosiect braenaru i fenywod, sydd wedi'i gynllunio i ddarparu dull integredig, system gyfan, sy'n benodol ar gyfer menywod sy'n dod i gysylltiad â'r system cyfiawnder troseddol yng Nghymru. Felly, rydym eisiau gweld dull cyfannol, cynhwysfawr o lunio polisi yng Nghymru sy'n rhoi'r fenyw wrth wraidd y polisi hwnnw yn hytrach na cheisio adeiladu carchar i fenywod nad yw'n diwallu ein hanghenion heddiw nac yn y dyfodol.
Diolch i'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet.
Thank you, Cabinet Secretary.
Yr eitem nesaf, felly, yw'r cwestiynau amserol, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf i'w ofyn i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, ac y mae gan Jack Sargeant.
The next item is the topical questions, and the first question is to be asked to the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Services, and it's a question from Jack Sargeant.
2. A yw Llywodraeth Cymru'n bwriadu rhoi terfyn ar lawdriaeth sy'n defnyddio rhwyll yn y GIG, yn sgil cyhoeddiad am roi terfyn ar y llawdriniaethau hyn yn Lloegr? 201
2. Does the Welsh Government intend to stop NHS mesh operations, in light of the announcement of an immediate stop to these operations in England? 201
Thank you for the question. I'm happy to have the opportunity to respond. I have written to Baroness Cumberlege to confirm that, in Wales, the use of mesh will be restricted on a similar basis as in England until additional safeguards are in place. The Chief Medical Officer for Wales has written to all medical directors in Wales to advise them of this advice. Officials will continue to work on details with relevant bodies across the UK.
Diolch i chi am y cwestiwn. Rwy'n falch o gael cyfle i ymateb. Rwyf wedi ysgrifennu at y Farwnes Cumberlege i gadarnhau y bydd y defnydd o rwyll yn cael ei gyfyngu yng Nghymru ar sail debyg i'r hyn y maent yn ei wneud yn Lloegr hyd nes y bydd mesurau diogelwch ychwanegol ar waith. Mae Prif Swyddog Meddygol Cymru wedi ysgrifennu at yr holl gyfarwyddwyr meddygol yng Nghymru i roi gwybod iddynt am y cyngor hwn. Bydd swyddogion yn parhau i weithio ar y manylion gyda chyrff perthnasol ledled y DU.
Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for that response on this very important topical question. On that issue, this issue impacts women from across the UK, and I want to pay particular tribute to Maxine Cooper, a constituent of mine, who has been working with the Sling the Mesh campaign for many years after a procedure she underwent in 2010. I know that Maxine was working closely with my dad on this issue, and I will, too, do all I can to support her. Like so many others, especially those women who have campaigned with courage and commitment, like Maxine, I was very pleased when NHS England made this announcement yesterday that it is putting an immediate curb on mesh operations after safety concerns. I know many colleagues from across the Chamber have been working on this issue, too, and that my colleague Jane Hutt held a meeting just last week with the Welsh mesh survivors group. The report of the Welsh task and finish group on this issue made some very important recommendations and included a list of what women have asked for, and, to no surprise, a ban on the use of surgical mesh was amongst that list.
Now, I have a few points to ask the Cabinet Secretary. Firstly, is he confident that the health boards have in place sufficient levels of clinical governance, consents, audit and research to ensure that all women can be confident that the appropriate safeguards are in place? Just yesterday, the leader of the house made reference to the evidence of a significant reduction in the number of vaginal mesh procedures in Wales. Does the Cabinet Secretary think that this will continue to be the case until the requirements for increased safeguards can be met? Finally, could you update us on the implementation group that will oversee specific areas of women's health requiring urgent attention and improvement? As you rightly say, Cabinet Secretary, we need to ensure that there is early access to specialist support for those treatment complications to prevent the worst outcomes for women and men alike. Diolch.
Diolch i chi am eich ymateb i'r cwestiwn amserol pwysig hwn, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Mae'r mater yn effeithio ar fenywod ledled y DU, a hoffwn dalu teyrnged arbennig i Maxine Cooper, un o fy etholwyr, sydd wedi bod yn gweithio gydag ymgyrch Sling the Mesh ers nifer o flynyddoedd yn dilyn llawdriniaeth a gafodd yn 2010. Gwn fod Maxine yn gweithio'n agos gyda fy nhad ar y mater hwn, a byddaf fi, hefyd, yn gwneud popeth a allaf i'w chefnogi. Fel cymaint o rai eraill, yn enwedig y menywod sydd wedi ymgyrchu gyda dewrder ac ymrwymiad, fel Maxine, roeddwn yn falch iawn pan wnaeth y GIG yn Lloegr y cyhoeddiad ddoe ei fod yn cyfyngu ar lawdriniaethau rhwyll ar unwaith o ganlyniad i bryderon diogelwch. Gwn fod llawer o fy nghyd-Aelodau ar draws y Siambr wedi bod yn gweithio ar y mater hwn hefyd, a bod fy nghyd-Aelod, Jane Hutt wedi cynnal cyfarfod yr wythnos diwethaf gyda grŵp goroeswyr rhwyll Cymru. Mae adroddiad grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen Cymru ar y mater hwn wedi gwneud rhai argymhellion pwysig iawn ac wedi cynnwys rhestr o'r hyn y mae menywod wedi gofyn amdano, ac nid yw'n syndod fod rhoi terfyn ar y defnydd o rwyll lawfeddygol ar y rhestr honno.
Nawr, mae gennyf ychydig o gwestiynau i'w gofyn i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Yn gyntaf, a yw'n hyderus fod gan y byrddau iechyd lefelau digonol o reolaeth glinigol, cydsyniadau, archwiliadau a gwaith ymchwil i sicrhau y gall pob menyw fod yn hyderus fod y mesurau diogelwch priodol yn eu lle? Ddoe, cyfeiriodd arweinydd y tŷ at y dystiolaeth sy'n dangos bod gostyngiad sylweddol yn nifer y llawdriniaethau rhwyll weiniol yng Nghymru. A yw Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn credu y bydd hyn yn parhau i fod yn wir hyd nes y gellir bodloni'r gofynion am fwy o ddiogelwch? Yn olaf, a allech roi'r newyddion diweddaraf inni am y grŵp gweithredu a fydd yn goruchwylio meysydd penodol o iechyd menywod sydd angen sylw a'u gwella ar fyrder? Fel y dywedwch yn gywir, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, mae angen i ni sicrhau bod mynediad cynnar at gymorth arbenigol ar gyfer cymhlethdodau llawdriniaethau er mwyn atal y canlyniadau gwaethaf i fenywod a dynion fel ei gilydd. Diolch.
Thank you for the question. I recognise the conversations that your father had with me about his constituent Maxine Cooper, and the continuing interest he had shown, and that you do too, on this issue. Obviously the statement that I made earlier this year indicated what we would do in response to the expert panel that we'd instituted here in Wales, and the group that you mentioned at the end, the women's health implementation group, will be meeting in August to take forward further measures on the recommendations that have been made. Now, I think it's really important to recognise that it sometimes does take time to make sure everything is in place as we wish it to be. But that is going to meet this summer. There is money to help them in terms of taking forward their recommendations, but my expectation is that we should already be in the position that England have announced. So, that's really important to be able to give that clarification and that assurance to people, because the points you make about consent, audit and safeguards really do matter. Because for some people this is still potentially a treatment of last resort, but it has to be a properly informed choice.
Given the widespread publicity and the stories of where mesh has gone wrong, you could understand that lots of people will not want to give consent to an operative procedure, but some women may choose to do so, and, as long as that consent is real and informed, then there is not a total ban in Wales, just as in England there is not a total ban. I think it's more accurate to say there is a curb on the use of mesh, rather than a total ban. That's very clear from the letter from the chief medical officer in England. What is also worth pointing out to Members is that what I think has changed now is the fact that not only has Baroness Cumberlege made this recommendation, but also the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency, the regulator, have become rather more involved in the conversation on what to do next. Unfortunately, up until this point, that has not been the case. Because politicians do have limits on their powers, and sensibly so, but the regulators' agreement that the curb in place now in England, Wales, and, I believe, in Scotland too, is the right thing to do—. You should be confident that there won't be any less vigilance in Wales than in other countries of the United Kingdom, and I fully expect to be questioned on this issue in this Chamber and beyond as well.
Diolch i chi am y cwestiwn. Rwy'n cofio'r sgyrsiau a gafodd eich tad gyda mi am ei etholwraig Maxine Cooper, a'r diddordeb parhaus a ddangosodd mewn perthynas â'r mater hwn, ac rydych chi'n gwneud hynny hefyd. Yn amlwg roedd y datganiad a wneuthum yn gynharach eleni yn dangos beth y byddem yn ei wneud mewn ymateb i'r panel arbenigol sydd wedi'i sefydlu yma yng Nghymru, a'r grŵp a grybwyllwyd gennych ar y diwedd, y grŵp gweithredu ar iechyd menywod, a fydd yn cyfarfod ym mis Awst i fwrw ymlaen â mesurau pellach ar yr argymhellion a wnaed. Nawr, credaf ei bod yn bwysig iawn inni gydnabod ei bod hi weithiau'n cymryd amser i sicrhau bod popeth yn ei le fel y dymunwn iddo fod. Ond bydd y grŵp hwnnw'n cyfarfod yr haf hwn. Mae yna arian i'w helpu i fwrw ymlaen â'u hargymhellion, ond rwy'n disgwyl ein bod eisoes yn y sefyllfa y mae Lloegr wedi'i chyhoeddi. Felly, mae'n bwysig iawn gallu rhoi'r eglurhad a'r sicrwydd hwnnw i bobl, oherwydd mae'r pwyntiau a wnewch am gydsyniad, archwiliadau a diogelwch yn bwysig iawn. Oherwydd i rai pobl, mae'n bosibl fod y llawdriniaeth hon yn ddewis olaf, ond mae'n rhaid i'r penderfyniad gael ei wneud ar sail gwybodaeth briodol.
O ystyried y cyhoeddusrwydd eang a'r straeon am lawdriniaethau rhwyll yn mynd o chwith, gallech ddeall na fydd llawer o bobl eisiau cydsynio i lawdriniaeth, ond bydd rhai menywod yn dewis gwneud hynny, a chyn belled â bod y cydsyniad hwnnw yn real ac yn benderfyniad ar sail gwybodaeth, nid oes gwaharddiad llwyr yng Nghymru, ac nid oes gwaharddiad llwyr yn Lloegr chwaith. Credaf ei bod yn fwy cywir dweud bod yna gyfyngu ar y defnydd o rwyll, yn hytrach na gwaharddiad llwyr. Mae hynny'n amlwg iawn yn y llythyr gan Brif Swyddog Meddygol Lloegr. Mae hefyd yn werth nodi i'r Aelodau fy mod yn credu mai'r hyn sydd wedi newid bellach yw, nid yn unig bod y Farwnes Cumberlege wedi gwneud yr argymhelliad hwn, ond hefyd bod yr Asiantaeth Rheoleiddio Meddyginiaethau a Chynhyrchion Gofal Iechyd, y rheoleiddiwr, wedi bod yn cymryd mwy o ran yn y sgwrs ynglŷn â beth i'w wneud nesaf. Yn anffodus, nid yw hynny wedi bod yn wir hyd yn hyn. Oherwydd mae yna gyfyngiadau ar bwerau gwleidyddion, ac mae hynny'n synhwyrol, ond mae cytundeb y rheoleiddwyr mai'r cyfyngiad ar y defnydd yn Lloegr, yng Nghymru, ac yn yr Alban hefyd, rwy'n credu, yw'r peth iawn i'w wneud—. Dylech fod yn hyderus na fydd llai o wyliadwriaeth yng Nghymru nag mewn gwledydd eraill yn y Deyrnas Unedig, ac rwy'n disgwyl y caf fy holi mewn perthynas â'r mater hwn yn y Siambr a thu hwnt yn ogystal.
Fourteen months ago I called for a statement here on the issue of mesh implants after a constituent in north Wales had told me of the suffering she had from left hip pain, left thigh pain, pelvic pain and intimate pain, and she told me of thousands of other women in the UK suffering in a similar way. I was then told that health boards should ensure they report any complications, and women who had the procedure were encouraged to self-report problems. Last December, I raised this in the Chamber after you wrote to me stating that you still believed that the benefits outweighed the risks. We know that in May you made your statement, following the report of the Welsh task and finish group to review the use of vaginal synthetic mesh, announcing the implementation group, which Jack Sargeant just referred to, to oversee specific areas of women's health requiring urgent attention and improvement.
On Monday, I had an e-mail, via my colleague Angela Burns, from a constituent in north Wales that said, 'Mesh is to be suspended in England. I know you understand how important it is that Wales must follow suit.' Attached to it was the press release issued yesterday saying that Baroness Cumberlege's review had called for the immediate suspension of the use of surgical mesh, and it quoted Owen Smith MP, chair of the all-party parliamentary group in Westminster, saying this is wonderful news and long overdue.
Today, you've told us that you're now going to follow the decision by NHS England to immediately stop mesh operations, but with a view to potentially continuing them in certain circumstances or after certain conditions are met. Human biology is the same both sides of the border. How, therefore, will you be going forward when Baroness Cumberlege recommended a suspension that can only be lifted if certain conditions, including keeping a register of every procedure and of all complications, are met? Are you going to require the same as Baroness Cumberlege is calling for? If not, what, if any, conditions would you be applying before lifting any suspension here?
Bedwar mis ar ddeg yn ôl, gelwais am ddatganiad ar fater mewnblaniadau rhwyll ar ôl i etholwraig yng ngogledd Cymru ddweud wrthyf ei bod yn dioddef o boen yn ei chlun chwith, poen yn ei morddwyd chwith, poen pelfis a phoen mewn mannau personol o'r corff, a dywedodd wrthyf fod miloedd o fenywod eraill yn y DU yn dioddef mewn ffordd debyg. Cefais wybod bryd hynny y dylai byrddau iechyd sicrhau eu bod yn rhoi gwybod am unrhyw gymhlethdodau, ac roedd menywod a oedd wedi cael y llawdriniaeth yn cael eu hannog i roi gwybod am broblemau drostynt eu hunain. Fis Rhagfyr diwethaf, codais hyn yn y Siambr ar ôl i chi ysgrifennu ataf yn dweud eich bod dal i gredu bod y manteision yn drech na'r risgiau. Gwyddom eich bod wedi gwneud eich datganiad ym mis Mai, yn dilyn adroddiad y grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen Cymreig i adolygu'r defnydd o rwyll weiniol synthetig, yn cyhoeddi'r grŵp gweithredu y cyfeiriodd Jack Sargeant ato yn awr, i oruchwylio meysydd penodol o iechyd menywod sydd angen mwy o sylw ac angen eu gwella ar frys.
Ddydd Llun, cefais e-bost, drwy fy nghyd-Aelod Angela Burns, gan etholwr yng ngogledd Cymru a ddywedodd, 'Bydd rhwyll yn cael ei wahardd yn Lloegr. Gwn eich bod yn deall pa mor bwysig yw hi fod yn rhaid i Gymru ddilyn eu hesiampl.' Wedi'i atodi wrth y neges, roedd y datganiad i'r wasg a gyhoeddwyd ddoe yn dweud bod adolygiad y Farwnes Cumberlege wedi galw am wahardd y defnydd o rwyll lawfeddygol ar unwaith, a dyfynnodd Owen Smith AS, cadeirydd y grŵp seneddol hollbleidiol yn San Steffan, a oedd yn dweud bod hwn yn newyddion gwych a hirddisgwyliedig.
Heddiw, rydych wedi dweud wrthym eich bod yn awr yn bwriadu dilyn y penderfyniad a wnaed gan y GIG yn Lloegr i wahardd llawdriniaethau rhwyll ar unwaith, ond gyda golwg ar y posibilrwydd o'u parhau o dan amgylchiadau penodol neu ar ôl i amodau penodol gael eu bodloni. Mae bioleg ddynol yr un peth ar y ddwy ochr i'r ffin. Sut, felly, y byddwch yn bwrw ymlaen â hyn pan fo'r Farwnes Cumberlege wedi argymell gwaharddiad na ellir ond ei ddiddymu os bodlonir amodau penodol, gan gynnwys cadw cofrestr o bob llawdriniaeth a'r holl gymhlethdodau? A fyddwch yn mynnu yr hyn y mae'r Farwnes Cumberlege yn galw amdano? Os na fyddwch, pa amodau, os o gwbl, y byddech yn eu cymhwyso cyn diddymu unrhyw waharddiad yma?
I think it's important to reiterate the recognition of the significant harm that has been caused where mesh procedures have gone wrong. I've met people in that position directly themselves and all of us have been affected by the very real testimony they provided. The situation here in Wales is that we have had a more vigilant approach since the report that was published and the statement that I made in May to this place, and we need to make sure that similar vigilance is continued. It is important—I don't want to get lost in redescribing what's happening in England or trying to say there is more or less vigilance, but I think there is similar vigilance across the nations of the United Kingdom on this issue. If you refer back to what Baroness Cumberlege herself has said, she said,
'At this stage in our review we are not recommending a ban'.
In the response from the Chief Medical Officer for England, in her correspondence to Baroness Cumberlege, she also referred to a conversation with Baroness Cumberlege where she said, 'It would be wrong to impose a blanket ban. I would emphasise we should remain mindful that, for some patients, this can be a last treatment option for a debilitating condition.'
So, that's the challenge. It's not for the politicians to decide, 'Here is a list of operations where you may use mesh and others where you may not'; this is about the advice and the guidance that is being given to medical professionals about the care they have with and for their patients, and for genuinely informed consent about the risks that exist as well. So, this really should be an area where politicians hesitate to say, 'I have decided for you what is appropriate treatment', including if it's a genuinely last-resort treatment, which is the position that we'd already reached in Wales with the expert review that we had.
We will continue to work on a non-partisan basis between the Governments of the United Kingdom, but crucially with the regulator and with NICE, and also with the clinical community and, crucially, with the individual citizens themselves who have either been harmed through mesh use in the past, but equally for those people where this could be a last-resort treatment. That is the point—that it's genuinely a last-resort treatment and there's action we will be taking in Wales about other treatment options, more conservative treatment options, in advance of any potential decision for a surgical procedure to be undertaken.
So, I hope that gives genuine reassurance to Members, who I know, in different parties, are concerned about this issue. The approach we're taking in Wales is no less vigilant than any of the other United Kingdom countries. It's in all of our interests to see further action taken on improving care in this area, which is why we have an expert group that is due to carry on and take forward this issue, meeting for the first time, as I said in answer to Jack Sargeant, at the start of August.
Rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig ailadrodd y gydnabyddiaeth o'r niwed sylweddol a achoswyd pan fo llawdriniaethau rhwyll wedi mynd o chwith. Rwyf wedi cyfarfod â phobl yn y sefyllfa honno eu hunain ac mae pob un ohonom wedi cael ein heffeithio gan y dystiolaeth real iawn a roddwyd ganddynt. Y sefyllfa yma yng Nghymru yw ein bod wedi mabwysiadu dull mwy gwyliadwrus ers yr adroddiad a gyhoeddwyd a'r datganiad a wneuthum i'r lle hwn ym mis Mai, ac mae angen i ni wneud yn siŵr bod gwyliadwriaeth debyg yn parhau. Mae'n bwysig—nid wyf eisiau mynd ar goll yn y broses o ail-ddisgrifio’r hyn sy'n digwydd yn Lloegr neu geisio dweud bod mwy neu lai o wyliadwriaeth, ond credaf fod gwyliadwriaeth debyg ym mhob un o wledydd y Deyrnas Unedig ar y mater hwn. Os edrychwch ar yr hyn y mae'r Farwnes Cumberlege ei hun wedi'i ddweud, dywedodd,
Ar y pwynt hwn yn ein hadolygiad nid ydym yn argymell gwaharddiad.
Yn yr ymateb gan Brif Swyddog Meddygol Lloegr, yn ei gohebiaeth â'r Farwnes Cumberlege, cyfeiriodd hithau hefyd at sgwrs gyda'r Farwnes Cumberlege pan ddywedodd, 'Byddai'n anghywir i mi weithredu gwaharddiad llwyr. Hoffwn bwysleisio y dylem gofio y gall y driniaeth hon fod yn ddewis olaf i rai cleifion sy'n dioddef anhwylder gwanychol.'
Felly, dyna'r her. Nid lle gwleidyddion yw penderfynu, 'Dyma restr o driniaethau lle y gallwch ddefnyddio rhwyll a rhestr o driniaethau eraill lle na allwch ddefnyddio rhwyll'; mae hyn yn ymwneud â'r cyngor a'r canllawiau a roddir i weithwyr meddygol proffesiynol ynglŷn a'r gofal y maent yn ei roi i'w cleifion, ac yn ymwneud â chydsyniad ar sail gwybodaeth ddilys am y risgiau sy'n bodoli yn ogystal. Felly, dylai hwn fod yn faes lle mae gwleidyddion yn petruso cyn dweud, 'Rwyf wedi penderfynu drosoch chi pa driniaeth sy'n briodol', gan gynnwys os yw triniaeth yn ddewis olaf go iawn, sef y sefyllfa roeddem eisoes ynddi yng Nghymru gyda'r adolygiad arbenigol a gawsom.
Byddwn yn parhau i weithio ar sail amhleidiol rhwng Llywodraethau'r Deyrnas Unedig, ond yn allweddol, gyda'r rheoleiddiwr a'r Sefydliad Cenedlaethol dros Ragoriaeth mewn Iechyd a Gofal, a hefyd gyda'r gymuned glinigol ac yn hollbwysig, gyda'r unigolion eu hunain sydd naill ai wedi'u niweidio o ganlyniad i ddefnyddio rhwyll yn y gorffennol, ond yn yr un modd, gyda'r bobl y gallai'r driniaeth fod yn ddewis olaf iddynt. Dyna'r pwynt—ei fod yn ddewis olaf go iawn a'n bod yn rhoi camau ar waith yng Nghymru mewn perthynas â thriniaethau eraill, triniaethau mwy ceidwadol, cyn gwneud unrhyw benderfyniadau i wneud llawdriniaeth.
Felly, gobeithio bod hynny'n rhoi sicrwydd go iawn i'r Aelodau y gwn eu bod, yn y gwahanol bleidiau, yn pryderu am y mater hwn. Nid yw'r dull o weithredu rydym yn ei fabwysiadu yng Nghymru yn llai gwyliadwrus nag unrhyw un o wledydd eraill y Deyrnas Unedig. Mae sicrhau bod rhagor o gamau yn cael eu cymryd i wella gofal yn y maes hwn o fudd i bob un ohonom, a dyna pam fod gennym grŵp o arbenigwyr a fydd yn parhau ac yn bwrw ymlaen â'r mater hwn, a byddant yn cyfarfod am y tro cyntaf, fel y dywedais yn fy ateb i Jack Sargeant, ddechrau mis Awst.
Having met a large group of mesh survivors here with Jane Hutt on Monday, both women and men, it's clear to me that the issue of informed consent is quite a major one, because people were not informed about potential complications and it's disappointing that it's taken the medical profession so many years to really listen to their patients and understand the level of suffering that people have undergone. I heard directly from people who said that they'd undergone a major investigative procedure under general anaesthetic, and then awoke to be told that mesh had been inserted without, obviously, any prior discussion about the pros and cons of such a procedure. So, would you agree with me that the lesson from this very sorry saga is that the medical profession has got to be much better at clearly seeking and obtaining informed consent when new procedures are being trialed, so that patients can make decisions themselves about what is best for them?
Ar ôl cyfarfod â grŵp mawr o oroeswyr llawdriniaethau rhwyll yma gyda Jane Hutt ddydd Llun, yn fenywod a dynion, mae'n amlwg i mi fod mater cydsyniad ar sail gwybodaeth yn broblem go fawr, gan na chafodd pobl wybod am gymhlethdodau posibl ac mae'n siomedig ei bod wedi cymryd cynifer o flynyddoedd i'r proffesiwn meddygol wrando'n iawn ar eu cleifion a deall lefel y dioddefaint y mae pobl wedi'i brofi. Clywais yn uniongyrchol gan bobl a ddywedodd eu bod wedi cael llawdriniaeth ymchwiliol fawr o dan anesthetig cyffredinol, ac wedi deffro wedyn i glywed bod y rhwyll wedi'i mewnosod heb unrhyw drafodaeth flaenorol, yn amlwg, ynglŷn â manteision ac anfanteision llawdriniaeth o'r fath. Felly, a fyddech yn cytuno â mi mai'r wers o'r saga wael hon yw bod angen i'r proffesiwn meddygol fod yn llawer gwell wrth ofyn a chael cydsyniad ar sail gwybodaeth pan fo llawdriniaethau newydd yn cael eu treialu, fel y gall cleifion wneud penderfyniadau drostynt eu hunain ynglŷn â'r hyn sydd orau iddynt hwy?
I think that's a really important point to make. It was part of the terms of reference for the expert group and review we had here in Wales, and it's really important not to undersell the importance of informed consent, because different people faced with the same information will make different choices about the risks they're prepared to take in treatment and, indeed, on the condition they currently have and the impact that that has upon their lives. It, of course, has been incredibly not just disappointing but really upsetting to hear people describe mesh procedures that have been undertaken and they say they have not consented to them, or they've consented but they do not believe it was informed consent. And all of that matters; we shouldn't try and brush that away. But the point about all forms of medical intervention is that it is about it being a genuine conversation and decision that the patient makes, as opposed to the clinician making it for them, and understanding, 'What matters to me as the person who is potentially undergoing that treatment.'
When you look at the expert report that we have had undertaken in Wales, it is genuinely reflective on past practice, and part of their recommendations are about making sure there is genuine and informed consent for any procedures that take place, as well as making sure that in the pathway to a potential operation, all other treatment options are provided first so that it is a genuine last resort, if it is used at all. And, in fact, what should give people comfort about that is that in Wales, there's been a significant reduction in mesh procedures, as our clinical community have recognised some of the challenges that have existed. That will continue to be the case, as we work through with colleagues across the United Kingdom on what could and should happen in the future. It is, of course, possible still that the regulator will decide to take a different step and to withdraw this as a treatment option, but that is a matter for the regulator, not for an elected politician.
Credaf fod hwnnw'n bwynt pwysig iawn i'w wneud. Roedd yn rhan o'r cylch gorchwyl ar gyfer y grŵp arbenigol a'r adolygiad a gawsom yma yng Nghymru, ac mae'n bwysig iawn nad ydym yn bychanu pwysigrwydd cydsyniad ar sail gwybodaeth, oherwydd bydd gwahanol bobl sy'n cael yr un wybodaeth yn gwneud penderfyniadau gwahanol am y risgiau y maent yn barod i'w cymryd mewn perthynas â thriniaeth ac yn wir, mewn perthynas â'r cyflwr sydd ganddynt ar hyn o bryd a'r effaith a gaiff ar eu bywydau. Wrth gwrs, mae wedi bod yn hynod o siomedig a diflas, mewn gwirionedd, i glywed pobl yn disgrifio'r llawdriniaethau rhwyll a gawsant, a'u bod heb gydsynio iddynt, neu eu bod wedi cydsynio iddynt ond nad ydynt yn credu ei fod yn gydsyniad ar sail gwybodaeth. Ac mae hynny i gyd yn bwysig; ni ddylem geisio diystyru hynny. Ond y pwynt yw, gyda phob math o ymyrraeth feddygol, mae'n ymwneud â chael sgwrs go iawn ac mae'n ymwneud â'r penderfyniad y mae'r claf yn ei wneud, yn hytrach na bod y clinigydd yn ei wneud drostynt, a deall, 'Beth sy'n bwysig i mi fel yr unigolyn a fydd, o bosibl, yn cael y driniaeth honno.'
Pan edrychwch ar yr adroddiad arbenigol rydym wedi'i wneud yng Nghymru, mae'n ystyried arferion y gorffennol yn fanwl, ac mae rhan o'u hargymhellion yn ymwneud â sicrhau bod yna gydsyniad dilys ar sail gwybodaeth ar gyfer unrhyw lawdriniaethau sy'n digwydd, yn ogystal â sicrhau, ar y llwybr tuag at lawdriniaeth bosibl, fod yr holl opsiynau triniaeth eraill yn cael eu darparu yn gyntaf fel ei fod yn ddewis olaf go iawn, os caiff ei ddefnyddio o gwbl. Ac yn wir, dylai roi cysur i bobl fod gostyngiad sylweddol wedi bod yn nifer y llawdriniaethau rhwyll yng Nghymru, gan fod ein cymuned glinigol wedi cydnabod rhai o'r heriau sy'n bodoli. Bydd hynny'n parhau i fod yn wir, wrth i ni weithio gyda chydweithwyr ledled y Deyrnas Unedig ar yr hyn a allai ac a ddylai ddigwydd yn y dyfodol. Wrth gwrs, mae'n bosibl o hyd y bydd y rheoleiddiwr yn penderfynu gweithredu mewn modd gwahanol a diddymu hwn fel dewis ar gyfer triniaeth, ond mae hwnnw'n fater ar gyfer y rheoleiddiwr, nid gwleidydd etholedig.
Diolch i'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet.
I thank the Cabinet Secretary.
The next question is also to you, and it's to be asked by Joyce Watson.
Mae'r cwestiwn nesaf i chi hefyd, a bydd yn cael ei ofyn gan Joyce Watson.
1. A wnaiff Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ddatganiad am ehangu addysg a hyfforddiant meddygol yng ngogledd Cymru, yn dilyn y cyhoeddiad a wnaed yn gynharach yr wythnos hon? 203
1. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on the expansion of medical education and training in north Wales, following the announcement made earlier this week? 203
Thank you for the question. Earlier this week, I was happy to announce an immediate increase in medical school places in Wales. These 40 additional places will bring benefits to the whole of Wales, including west and north Wales, with 20 places in Swansea medical school and 20 places in Cardiff medical school, to be delivered in collaboration with Bangor University in north Wales. Cardiff and Bangor universities are collaborating on plans that will allow students to undertake all of their medical education in north Wales in the near future.
Diolch i chi am y cwestiwn. Yn gynharach yr wythnos hon, roeddwn yn falch o gyhoeddi cynnydd yn nifer y lleoedd mewn ysgolion meddygol yng Nghymru ar unwaith. Bydd y 40 o leoedd ychwanegol yn dod â manteision i Gymru gyfan, gan gynnwys gorllewin a gogledd Cymru, gydag 20 lle yn ysgol feddygol Abertawe ac 20 yn ysgol feddygol Caerdydd, i'w darparu mewn cydweithrediad â Phrifysgol Bangor yng ngogledd Cymru. Mae prifysgolion Caerdydd a Bangor yn cydweithio ar gynlluniau a fydd yn galluogi myfyrwyr i ymgymryd â'u holl addysg feddygol yng ngogledd Cymru yn y dyfodol agos.
I find this a really useful announcement, because in Wales we're facing the same challenges as the rest of the UK to train and recruit medical practitioners, and I'm pleased that this scheme will help to deliver and to promote that. I understand that there's lots of work and detail that will follow, and I look forward to the updates. I support a pragmatic approach to delivering maximum benefit from a restricted budget, and the fact that not all of the money will be spent on a capital investment.
Increasing the numbers in Swansea and also Aberystwyth University will, I believe and I hope, give wider and more diverse opportunities to the people who live in those areas. We all know, and it's well documented, that west Wales in particular faces major recruitment challenges, and I look forward to this increase, or any other increase for that matter, delivering for the people of west Wales, who need, quite clearly, to gain from medical practitioners in an ever-changing environment.
Credaf fod hwn yn gyhoeddiad defnyddiol iawn, oherwydd rydym ni yng Nghymru yn wynebu'r un heriau â gweddill y DU o ran hyfforddi a recriwtio ymarferwyr meddygol, ac rwy'n falch y bydd y cynllun hwn yn helpu i ddarparu a hyrwyddo hynny. Deallaf fod lawer o waith a manylion i ddilyn, ac edrychaf ymlaen at glywed rhagor. Rwy'n cefnogi dull pragmataidd o ddarparu'r budd mwyaf posibl o gyllideb gyfyngedig, a'r ffaith na fydd yr holl arian yn cael ei wario ar fuddsoddiad cyfalaf.
Bydd cynyddu'r niferoedd yn Abertawe, a hefyd ym Mhrifysgol Aberystwyth, rwy'n credu ac rwy'n gobeithio, yn rhoi cyfleoedd ehangach a mwy amrywiol i'r bobl sy'n byw yn yr ardaloedd hynny. Mae pawb ohonom yn gwybod, ac mae wedi'i gofnodi'n helaeth, fod y gorllewin yn arbennig yn wynebu heriau recriwtio mawr, ac edrychaf ymlaen at y cynnydd hwn, neu unrhyw gynnydd arall o ran hynny, sy'n darparu ar gyfer pobl gorllewin Cymru, sydd angen elwa, wrth gwrs, ar wasanaeth ymarferwyr meddygol mewn amgylchedd sy'n newid o hyd.
Thank you. It's important to note that this is keeping the pledge that we made to come back with a decision, and the indication that I gave that we thought we'd be able to do something on expanding them—expanding opportunities in different parts of Wales—in previous questions. I've always been keen to talk about the fact that this is good news both for north Wales but also west Wales, because, as you correctly point out, there are recruitment challenges in west Wales as well as the north. There is a small amount of capital that we'll need to deploy to make this happen, but doing this this way, in collaboration between four universities, will mean that we're able to make faster progress on increasing numbers and increasing opportunities in different parts of Wales, because there's lots of evidence we're more likely to have people stay in west Wales and north Wales if they undertake large amounts of their training there.
It does come on the back of an agreement we reached on how we use some money with Plaid Cymru in the budget, but that two-year amount won't be enough to train someone over the course of a whole medical degree. So, we've made the choice within Government to support this whole programme of study and to have a permanent increase in the additional numbers of medical training places. So, it goes beyond the agreement we reached about exploring this issue with Plaid Cymru. It is a permanent addition, and I look forward to understanding more about not just when people can undertake all of their study in north and west Wales, but also our ability to then see what more we can do to have the right sort of medical and fellow health and care professionals here in the service in Wales.
Diolch. Mae'n bwysig nodi bod y penderfyniad hwn yn cadw'r addewid a wnaethom i ddychwelyd â phenderfyniad, a'r awgrym a roddais ein bod yn credu y gallem wneud rhywbeth i'w hymestyn—ymestyn cyfleoedd mewn gwahanol rannau o Gymru—mewn cwestiynau blaenorol. Rwyf bob amser wedi bod yn awyddus i siarad am y ffaith bod hwn yn newydd da i ogledd Cymru ond hefyd i orllewin Cymru, oherwydd, fel rydych yn nodi, mae yna heriau recriwtio yng ngorllewin Cymru yn ogystal â'r gogledd. Mae yna swm bach o gyfalaf y byddwn angen ei ddefnyddio i wneud i hyn ddigwydd, ond bydd ei wneud yn y ffordd hon, ar y cyd rhwng pedair prifysgol, yn golygu y gallwn wneud cynnydd cyflymach o ran cynyddu niferoedd a chynyddu cyfleoedd mewn gwahanol rannau o Gymru, oherwydd ceir llawer o dystiolaeth ein bod yn fwy tebygol o weld pobl yn aros yng ngorllewin Cymru a gogledd Cymru os byddant yn cael cyfran fawr o'u hyfforddiant yno.
Mae hyn yn dilyn cytundeb a wnaethom gyda Phlaid Cymru ar sut rydym yn defnyddio rhywfaint o arian yn y gyllideb, ond ni fydd y swm dwy flynedd hwnnw'n ddigon i hyfforddi rhywun drwy gydol eu gradd feddygol. Felly, rydym wedi gwneud y dewis yn y Llywodraeth i gefnogi'r rhaglen astudio hon yn ei chyfanrwydd a sicrhau cynnydd parhaol yn y niferoedd ychwanegol o leoedd hyfforddi meddygol. Felly, mae'n mynd y tu hwnt i'r cytundeb a wnaethom i ymchwilio i'r mater gyda Phlaid Cymru. Mae'n ychwanegiad parhaol, ac edrychaf ymlaen at ddeall mwy, nid yn unig o ran pryd y bydd pobl yn gallu cwblhau eu hastudiaethau i gyd yng ngogledd a gorllewin Cymru, ond hefyd o ran ein gallu i weld beth arall y gallwn ei wneud i gael y math cywir o weithwyr proffesiynol meddygol a chydweithwyr proffesiynol gofal ac iechyd yma yn y gwasanaeth yng Nghymru.
I do welcome the expansion of medical school places, although I do regret that you didn't choose to announce that expansion here when this has been a topic that has exercised so many of us on so many occasions. We do have a shortage of doctors, as you're well aware, in certain disciplines such as general practice, paediatrics and rheumatology. Are you able, through these places, to seek to massage the workforce planning going forward and to ensure that we have people who might then be able to follow those kinds of specialisms? And given the shortage of doctors, I would be very interested to know how you evaluated that 40 additional places is what we need. Do we need more? Was that all the money you had available, or do you think that 40 is it, and that will suffice going forward?
I noted in your written statement that you published earlier this week the intent that trainees will be able to undertake the totality of their medical training in north Wales, and their postgraduate training. Whilst further collaboration between Cardiff and Bangor is absolutely key in making that happen, what discussions, if any, have taken place with providers in the north-west of England, especially the hospitals that may be able to produce or to allow rotational work to be undertaken as part of that postgrad training? I'd be really interested to know whether or not you believe that we can do all of our postgrad training within north Wales itself, because we heard in our previous inquiry to the health and social care committee about some of the difficulties of producing or of being able to do some of that training, because we don't have all of those specialisms within our current structure up there in north Wales. Thank you.
Rwy'n croesawu'r penderfyniad i ehangu lleoedd ysgol feddygol, er rwy'n gresynu na wnaethoch ddewis cyhoeddi'r ehangu hwn yma o ystyried bod hwn yn bwnc sydd wedi'i drafod gan gymaint ohonom ar gynifer o achlysuron. Mae gennym brinder meddygon, fel rydych yn gwybod, mewn rhai disgyblaethau megis ymarfer cyffredinol, pediatreg a rhewmatoleg. A ydych, drwy'r lleoedd hyn, yn gallu datblygu cynlluniau'r gweithlu yn y dyfodol a sicrhau bod gennym bobl a fyddai'n gallu dilyn y mathau hynny o arbenigeddau wedyn? Ac o ystyried y prinder meddygon, hoffwn wybod sut y gwnaethoch werthuso mai 40 o leoedd ychwanegol rydym eu hangen. A ydym angen mwy? Ai dyna'r cyfan o arian a oedd ar gael, neu a ydych yn credu mai 40 rydym eu hangen, ac y bydd hynny'n ddigon yn y dyfodol?
Yn y datganiad ysgrifenedig a gyhoeddwyd gennych yn gynharach yr wythnos hon, sylwais ar y bwriad i alluogi hyfforddeion i ymgymryd â'u hyfforddiant meddygol i gyd yng ngogledd Cymru, a'u hyfforddiant ôl-raddedig. Er bod cydweithio pellach rhwng Caerdydd a Bangor yn gwbl allweddol i sicrhau bod hynny'n digwydd, pa drafodaethau, os o gwbl, sydd wedi bod â darparwyr yng ngogledd-orllewin Lloegr, yn enwedig yr ysbytai a allai gynhyrchu neu ganiatáu gwaith ar batrwm cylch fel rhan o'r hyfforddiant ôl-raddedig? Hoffwn wybod a ydych yn credu y gallwn wneud ein hyfforddiant ôl-raddedig i gyd yng ngogledd Cymru ei hun ai peidio, oherwydd clywsom yn ein hymchwiliad blaenorol i'r pwyllgor iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol ynglŷn â rhai o'r anawsterau o ran cynhyrchu neu allu gwneud rhywfaint o'r hyfforddiant hwnnw, oherwydd nad oes gennym yr arbenigeddau hynny i gyd o fewn ein strwythur cyfredol yng ngogledd Cymru. Diolch.
Thank you for the questions. I think it's a useful point about distinguishing between the medical degree and then speciality training post medical degree. Of course, there are ongoing conversations with colleagues in the north-west deanery in England about how we might arrange different courses of study, as well as what we can do within Wales as well. I want there to be a practical conversation that is led by actually making a difference for the quality of training and the scope of training that can be provided, as opposed to an England-versus-Wales conversation. There will, of course, be times when politicians disagree, but this is actually about training doctors to give them a career within our national health service, serving our communities.
On the point on the medical degree and the practical choice about places and mone, they are practical choices about our ability to expand, if we want to fund that expansion, because, as I say, you can't do that on a limited agreement over two or three years, because the degree takes longer and it would be a pretty unusual thing if we decided to expand a degree course of study for one cohort and then at the end of that we would withdraw the funding. There would be no way to plan and properly expand the numbers we would want to see within our medical workforce. It won't take away our need to continue to recruit from within the nations of the UK as well as outside the UK, in Europe and further afield, but this is us making a practical choice with the resource we have to make a difference in the area that we can make with our current two medical schools, to deliver against some of the challenges in different parts of the country.
That will also be the case for speciality training as well, because, every year, we look at our speciality training numbers and we need to understand how and where we fill those places. So, actually, that is even more important in terms of the links with the rest of Wales and, indeed, the deanery across our border where different training places are available for those speciality places. So, we have some of the same challenges as the rest of the United Kingdom and some rather more unique ones. This is part of the answer, as opposed to a silver bullet for all the challenges that you and I will continue to discuss now and in the future.
Diolch i chi am y cwestiynau. Rwy'n credu ei fod yn bwynt defnyddiol ynglŷn â gwahaniaethu rhwng y radd feddygol a hyfforddiant arbenigol y radd feddygol ôl-raddedig wedyn. Wrth gwrs, mae yna sgyrsiau parhaus ar y gweill gyda chydweithwyr yn neoniaeth y gogledd-orllewin yn Lloegr ynglŷn â sut y gellid trefnu cyrsiau astudio gwahanol, yn ogystal â'r hyn y gallwn ei wneud yng Nghymru. Rwyf am gael sgwrs ymarferol ynglŷn â gwneud gwahaniaeth i ansawdd yr hyfforddiant a chwmpas yr hyfforddiant y gellir ei ddarparu mewn gwirionedd, yn hytrach na sgwrs Cymru yn erbyn Lloegr. Wrth gwrs, bydd yna adegau pan fydd gwleidyddion yn anghytuno, ond mae hyn, mewn gwirionedd, yn ymwneud â hyfforddi meddygon i roi gyrfa iddynt o fewn ein gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol, yn gwasanaethu ein cymunedau.
O ran y pwynt am y radd feddygol a'r dewis ymarferol ynghylch lleoedd ac arian, maent yn ddewisiadau ymarferol ynglŷn â'n gallu i ehangu, os ydym eisiau ariannu'r ehangu hwnnw, oherwydd fel y dywedaf, ni allwch wneud hynny ar gytundeb cyfyngedig dros ddwy neu dair blynedd, oherwydd mae'r radd yn cymryd mwy o amser a byddai'n beth eithaf anarferol pe baem yn penderfynu ehangu cwrs gradd ar gyfer un cohort ac yna'n tynnu'r cyllid yn ôl ar y diwedd. Ni fyddai unrhyw ffordd o gynllunio a chynyddu'n briodol y niferoedd y byddem eisiau eu gweld o fewn ein gweithlu meddygol. Ni fydd yn cael gwared ar ein hangen i barhau i recriwtio o blith gwledydd y DU yn ogystal ag o'r tu allan i'r DU, o Ewrop a thu hwnt, ond mae hon yn enghraifft ohonom ni yn gwneud penderfyniad ymarferol gyda'r adnoddau sydd gennym i wneud y gwahaniaeth yn yr ardal y gallwn ei wneud gyda'r ddwy ysgol feddygol sydd gennym ar hyn o bryd, er mwyn cyflawni yn erbyn rhai o'r heriau mewn gwahanol rannau o'r wlad.
Bydd hynny hefyd yn wir mewn perthynas â hyfforddiant arbenigol yn ogystal, oherwydd, bob blwyddyn, rydym yn edrych ar y niferoedd sy'n cael hyfforddiant arbenigol ac mae angen i ni ddeall sut a ble rydym yn llenwi'r lleoedd hynny. Felly, mewn gwirionedd, mae hynny hyd yn oed yn bwysicach o ran y cysylltiadau â gweddill Cymru ac yn wir, y ddeoniaeth ar draws ein ffin lle mae gwahanol leoedd hyfforddi ar gael ar gyfer y lleoedd hyfforddi arbenigol hynny. Felly, mae gennym rywfaint o'r un heriau â gweddill y Deyrnas Unedig a rhai sy'n fwy unigryw. Mae hyn yn rhan o'r ateb, yn hytrach nag ateb hollgynhwysol i'r heriau y byddwch chi a minnau yn parhau i'w trafod yn awr ac yn y dyfodol.
Ym mis Mai y llynedd, fe gyhoeddwyd yr adroddiad yma gan Aelod Seneddol Arfon, Hywel Williams, a minnau, yn gosod allan yr achos dros ysgol feddygol i'r gogledd. Mae eich cyhoeddiad chi am ehangu addysg feddygol yn y gogledd yn gam arwyddocaol a phwysig i'r cyfeiriad cywir, ac yn ffrwyth ymgyrch leol gref yn Arfon.
Yn eich datganiad, mi rydych chi'n dweud hyn:
'bydd y trefniadau newydd yn rhoi mwy o gyfleoedd i siaradwyr Cymraeg astudio drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg.'
A fedrwch chi ymhelaethu ar hynny, ac ar sut yn union fydd hynny yn digwydd?
In May of last year, this report was published by the Member of Parliament for Arfon, Hywel Williams, and me, setting out the case for a medical school for north Wales. Your announcement on expanding medical education in north Wales is a significant and important step in the right direction, and is the result of a strong local campaign in Arfon.
In your statement you say this:
'these new arrangements will provide more opportunities for Welsh speakers to undertake their studies in Welsh.'
Can you expand upon that and how exactly that will happen?
Thank you for the question. It is important that we see opportunities for people to utilise the skills they have to be doctors, including the ability to use the Welsh language. Part of our challenge, and I've made this point several times over in the past, is that Welsh language needs are not preferences, they are genuine care needs in a range of our communities and with individuals and their families. Part of our challenge has been how we have enough health and care professionals to be able to deliver against that, and I'd still like to see us be able to make more successful efforts to attract people back to Wales who have undertaken part of their medical or other healthcare professional training within England. That requires us to have an attractive offer for them to work here in Wales, as opposed to simply saying that they have a sense of national responsibility to return to make their careers anew.
But I do fully expect that in the programmes of study that exist already, that will be real and possible. We're making deliberate efforts to try and encourage people who speak Welsh to come into medical education as a potential career for them. I spoke, for example, on a programme of study we have to look to get a number of 16 to 18-year-olds in Valleys communities and other parts of Wales to come and consider a career in medicine. So, we are deliberately going out to look to try and make sure that it's an attractive career for different people to come into, as well as the place of study itself, as—[Inaudible.]—course of study, and the medium of the language that that is delivered in.
I'm pleased to reiterate that this decision that I have made is a result of us keeping our word about the decision that we would consider, the timescale we'd make it in, and our ambition to expand opportunities to undertake more medical education and training, and our ambition to make sure people come and undertake their whole period of study within Wales as well.
Diolch i chi am y cwestiwn. Mae'n bwysig ein bod yn gweld cyfleoedd i bobl ddefnyddio'r sgiliau sydd ganddynt i fod yn feddygon, gan gynnwys y gallu i ddefnyddio'r iaith Gymraeg. Rhan o'r her i ni, ac rwyf wedi gwneud y pwynt hwn droeon yn y gorffennol, yw nad dewisiadau yw anghenion iaith Gymraeg, maent yn anghenion gofal gwirioneddol mewn amryw o'n cymunedau a chydag unigolion a'u teuluoedd. Rhan o'r her i ni oedd sut i gael digon o weithwyr proffesiynol iechyd a gofal er mwyn gallu cyflawni yn erbyn hynny, a buaswn yn dal i hoffi ein gweld yn gallu gwneud ymdrechion mwy llwyddiannus i ddenu pobl sydd wedi gwneud rhan o'u hyfforddiant gofal iechyd proffesiynol meddygol neu fel arall yn Lloegr yn ôl i Gymru. Mae hynny'n ei gwneud yn ofynnol inni gael cynnig deniadol iddynt weithio yma yng Nghymru, yn hytrach na dweud yn syml fod ganddynt ymdeimlad o gyfrifoldeb cenedlaethol i ddychwelyd i ddilyn gyrfa o'r newydd.
Ond rwy'n disgwyl y bydd hynny'n real ac yn bosibl yn y rhaglenni astudio sy'n bodoli eisoes. Rydym yn gwneud ymdrechion bwriadol i geisio annog pobl sy'n siarad Cymraeg i ddod i mewn i addysg feddygol fel gyrfa bosibl ar eu cyfer. Siaradais, er enghraifft, ar raglen astudio sydd gennym i geisio cael nifer o rai 16 i 18 oed yng nghymunedau'r Cymoedd a rhannau eraill o Gymru i ddod i ystyried gyrfa mewn meddygaeth. Felly, rydym yn fwriadol yn mynd i geisio gwneud yn siŵr ei bod yn yrfa ddeniadol i wahanol bobl ei dewis, yn ogystal â'r man astudio ei hun, fel—[Anghlywadwy.]—cwrs astudio, a'r cyfrwng iaith ar gyfer ei gyflwyno.
Rwy'n falch o ailddatgan bod y penderfyniad hwn a wneuthum yn ganlyniad i gadw ein gair am y penderfyniad y byddem yn ei ystyried, yr amserlen ar gyfer gwneud y penderfyniad, a'n huchelgais i ehangu cyfleoedd i ymgymryd â mwy o addysg a hyfforddiant meddygol, a'n huchelgais i sicrhau bod pobl yn treulio eu holl gyfnod astudio yng Nghymru hefyd.
I've supported the concept of a Bangor medical school since the previous vice-chancellor, Merfyn Jones, first raised it with me a decade or more ago, and this, of course, has been raised in previous Assemblies also. But given that the north Wales local medical committee—many of whom themselves studied at Liverpool medical school, or Manchester medical school, some of whom came from north Wales, some who chose to build their lives and careers in north Wales—have called for this model to incorporate and restore direct connections with Liverpool, and possibly Manchester medical school, not just beyond, across the border, but specifically there, given the historic links, how do you respond to that call by the north Wales local medical committee, made up of local general practitioners, and what dialogue have you had with them regarding that?
Rwyf wedi cefnogi'r cysyniad o ysgol feddygol ym Mangor ers i'r is-ganghellor blaenorol, Merfyn Jones, ei ddwyn i fy sylw yn gyntaf ddegawd neu fwy yn ôl, ac mae hyn wrth gwrs, wedi cael ei godi mewn Cynulliadau blaenorol hefyd. Ond o ystyried bod pwyllgor meddygol lleol gogledd Cymru—y bu llawer ohonynt eu hunain yn astudio yn ysgol feddygol Lerpwl, neu ysgol feddygol Manceinion, a rhai ohonynt yn dod o ogledd Cymru, a rhai wedi dewis adeiladu eu bywydau a'u gyrfaoedd yng ngogledd Cymru—wedi galw am i'r model hwn ymgorffori ac adfer cysylltiadau uniongyrchol â Lerpwl, ac ysgol feddygol Manceinion o bosibl, nid yn unig dros y ffin, ond yn benodol yno, o ystyried y cysylltiadau hanesyddol, sut rydych yn ymateb i'r alwad gan bwyllgor meddygol lleol gogledd Cymru, a luniwyd o ymarferwyr cyffredinol lleol, a pha drafodaethau a gawsoch gyda hwy ynglŷn â hynny?
I've made an announcement that is building on our two medical schools and provision and partnership with universities in different parts of Wales. I don't think it would be at all helpful for me to try and interrupt that, having just announced it within a week, and to then say that I expect them to remake different links with different medical schools. We of course want opportunities for people to study medicine and to be able to acquire skills to deliver the full programme of study to become doctors and actually to keep them here in Wales. I will always look for opportunities for our health and care system here in Wales to attract people to come here, and to keep people here, and to work with other partners across our border to do so as well. That will be the focus. It will be about making the partnerships that we've agreed, to make them work, and the partnership and collaboration that has real investment and time for people in both Swansea and Cardiff medical schools, and I'm really pleased to say, within Aberystwyth and Bangor universities too.
Rwyf wedi gwneud cyhoeddiad sy'n adeiladu ar ein dwy ysgol feddygol a'r ddarpariaeth a'r bartneriaeth â phrifysgolion mewn rhannau gwahanol o Gymru. Ni chredaf y byddai o gymorth o gwbl i mi i geisio amharu ar hynny, a minnau newydd ei gyhoeddi ers wythnos, a dweud wedyn fy mod yn disgwyl iddynt ailffurfio gwahanol gysylltiadau ag ysgolion meddygol gwahanol. Wrth gwrs, rydym am gyfleoedd i bobl astudio meddygaeth a gallu caffael sgiliau i ddarparu'r rhaglen astudio lawn i ddod yn feddygon a'u cadw yma yng Nghymru mewn gwirionedd. Byddaf bob amser yn edrych am gyfleoedd i'n system iechyd a gofal yma yng Nghymru ddenu pobl i ddod yma, ac i gadw pobl yma, ac i weithio gyda phartneriaid eraill ar draws ein ffin i wneud hynny hefyd. Dyna fydd y ffocws. Bydd yn ymwneud â gwneud y partneriaethau rydym wedi'u cytuno, gwneud iddynt weithio, a'r bartneriaeth a'r cydweithredu sydd â buddsoddiad ac amser go iawn i bobl yn ysgolion meddygol Abertawe a Chaerdydd, ac rwy'n falch iawn o ddweud, ym mhrifysgolion Aberystwyth a Bangor hefyd.
Ac yn olaf, Rhun ap Iorwerth.
And finally, Rhun ap Iorwerth.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd. Ac a gaf groesawu'r datganiad yma heddiw, sydd wedi cymryd llawer rhy hir i ddod, wrth gwrs? Rydw i'n meddwl yn ôl am fy nghyfarfod cynnar i, ar ôl i mi gael fy ethol, efo'r Athro Dean Williams o Brifysgol Bangor ac Ysbyty Gwynedd, yn plannu'r syniad yma, a'r sylweddoliad buan iawn ei bod hi'n hollol amlwg bod rhaid inni fwrw ymlaen â chyflwyno addysg feddygol ym Mangor, fel yr oedd pobl fel Dr Dai Lloyd yn sylweddoli bod angen cyflwyno addysg feddygol yn Abertawe flynyddoedd yn ôl, ac, wrth gwrs, mae hi'n ysgol feddygol lawn yn Abertawe erbyn hyn. Rydw i'n meddwl am yr holl feddygon hynny, y rhai sydd eisiau bod yn feddygon, yn bobl ifanc, yn rhieni, yn gyn-feddygon, yn nyrsys, sy'n gweld y budd o ddatblygu addysg feddygol ym Mangor, ac rydw i'n diolch iddyn nhw heddiw am fod yn gefn i ni sydd wedi ymgyrchu mor galed dros hyn, er mwyn troi hyn yn realiti.
Gadewch inni gofio pam fod hyn yn digwydd. Mae hyn yn gorfod digwydd oherwydd prinder meddygon mewn ardaloedd o'r gorllewin a'r gogledd. Mi fydd hyn yn help, rydw i'n hyderus, i recriwtio ac i lenwi'r tyllau. Mae o'n digwydd oherwydd bod rhy ychydig o feddygon yn cael eu hyfforddi yng Nghymru, a rhy ychydig o'r rheini yn dod o Gymru. Felly, mae hyn yn agor y drws, gobeithio, i fwy o'n pobl ifanc ni allu dilyn gyrfa mewn meddygaeth.
I'r Ceidwadwyr, os caf i ddweud: ar ddiwrnod lle rydym ni'n dathlu cael coleg meddygol, i bob pwrpas, yng Nghymru, rydych chi'n penderfynu canolbwyntio ar, 'Ond beth am y cysylltiadau efo gogledd-orllewin Lloegr?' Gwrandewch: wrth gwrs bod y cysylltiadau hynny yn bwysig, ond gadewch inni heddiw ganolbwyntio ar yr hyn rydym ni'n gallu ei wneud yma yng Nghymru, er mwyn cynyddu capasiti addysg feddygol ein hunain.
I chi, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, cwestiynau syml: a allwch chi gadarnhau mai dim ond dechrau ydy hyn ar dwf mewn addysg feddygol yng Nghymru, ac a allwch chi gadarnhau hefyd y byddwch chi'n rhannu fy nymuniad i o weld y coleg meddygol newydd ym Mangor yn datblygu i fod yn ganolfan o ragoriaeth, nid yn unig mewn dysgu meddygaeth drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, ond mewn darpariaeth o ofal iechyd gwledig hefyd? Mae heddiw'n gam pwysig ymlaen.
Thank you very much, Llywydd. May I welcome this statement today, which has taken far too long to come, of course? I am thinking back to a very early meeting I had, after I was elected, with Professor Dean Williams, from Bangor University and Ysbyty Gwynedd, who seeded this idea, and the realisation I very quickly had that it was obvious that we needed to move ahead with medical education in Bangor, as people like Dr Dai Lloyd realised the need for the introduction of medical education in Swansea University, and there is a now a full medical school in Swansea. I am thinking of all those doctors and those who would wish to be doctors, young people and parents, former doctors and nurses—people who see the benefit of developing medical education in Bangor, and I thank them today for supporting those of us who have campaigned so hard for this, in order to turn this into a reality.
Let us remember why this is taking place. This has to take place because of a lack of doctors in parts of west Wales and north Wales. This will be a help, I believe, in recruiting and filling the gaps. It is happening because there are too few doctors being trained in Wales, and too few of those coming from Wales. So, this opens the door, I hope, to a greater number of our young people being able to undertake a career in medicine.
To the Conservatives, if I may say: on a day when we are celebrating having a medical college, to all intents and purposes, in Wales, you decide to concentrate on asking about the linkages with north-west England. Well, listen: of course those linkages are important, but let us also today concentrate on what we can do here in Wales in order to increase the capacity of medical education for ourselves.
To you, Cabinet Secretary, I have simple questions to ask: can you confirm that this is only the beginning of a growth in medical education in Wales, and can you also confirm that you will share my desire to see this new medical college in Bangor developing to be a centre of excellence, not only in teaching medicine through the medium of Welsh, but also in the provision of rural healthcare? Today is an important step forward.
In making this announcement, we've been clear with our university partners and the two medical schools that we want to continue to see more people from Wales have opportunities to train to become doctors as part of this. We want to see excellence, of course, but I don't think that you need to dumb down on standards, frankly, to give more people from Wales opportunities to—
Wrth wneud y cyhoeddiad hwn, rydym wedi bod yn glir gyda'n partneriaid prifysgol a'r ddwy ysgol feddygol ein bod am barhau i weld mwy o bobl o Gymru yn cael cyfleoedd i hyfforddi i ddod yn feddygon fel rhan o hyn. Rydym am weld rhagoriaeth, wrth gwrs, ond nid wyf yn meddwl bod angen ichi ostwng safonau, a bod yn onest, i roi cyfleoedd i fwy o bobl o Gymru i—
Who's talking about dumbing down on standards?
Pwy sy'n sôn am ostwng safonau?
That's exactly my point. You don't need to dumb down on standards to give more opportunities to people in Wales.
Dyna'n union yw fy mhwynt. Nid oes angen ichi ostwng safonau i roi mwy o gyfleoedd i bobl yng Nghymru.
That's not been suggested. Why do you bring that up? That's terrible.
Ni awgrymwyd hynny. Pam rydych chi'n dweud hynny? Mae hynny'n ofnadwy.
The reason I bring that up is that it is something that is mentioned outside this place from time to time about saying, 'Actually you need to change standards.' [Interruption.] I think you're misunderstanding—[Interruption.] With respect, I think you're misunderstanding the point I'm making. The point I'm making is that there are plenty of young people from Wales who have the ability to become doctors. This is about making sure that our universities don't operate a system of understanding who will then be offered those places that excludes young people from those places. I want to see more people from Wales be given opportunities to study medicine in Wales, and the expansion in numbers has to be accompanied with an expansion in opportunities for people from Wales to take up those places. Because I believe there is plenty of talent available within Wales who will want to do so. And that's actually why, in answer to earlier questions, there are the efforts that we're making to make sure that more people are encouraged to consider a career in medicine. So, that work will have to continue, rather than simply say, 'Expand the places and the people will come.' The people need to come from within Wales as well.
I'm more than happy to indicate that I want to have a continuing conversation about the numbers of people that we have within the medical profession, about how and where they're trained. We will always need to have a practical conversation about that, to understand the resources that we have available, and the ability of our medical schools, in partnership with their universities, to do so. But at this point in time, I think the collaboration that has gone into this, and the work that has gone into this, from four universities, gives us good reason to think they could actually train more people. The challenge is our ability to finance that training, and to make sure that we make a success of the current expansion that I have already announced.
And of course I want to see the new partnerships that we have announced deliver genuine excellence, in health and care, including rural healthcare. There is a real opportunity for us to deliver real excellence in healthcare, because a number of doctors want to work in a city context, a number of doctors want to work in a Valleys context, and there are lots of people who want to be doctors in rural medicine as well, and this is a real opportunity to give those people more opportunities to do so.
Y rheswm rwy'n dweud hynny yw ei fod yn rhywbeth a grybwyllir y tu allan i'r lle hwn o bryd i'w gilydd ynglŷn â dweud, 'Mewn gwirionedd mae angen i chi newid safonau.' [Torri ar draws.] Credaf eich bod yn camddeall—[Torri ar draws.] Gyda phob parch, rwy'n meddwl eich bod yn camddeall y pwynt rwy'n ei wneud. Y pwynt rwy'n ei wneud yw bod digon o bobl ifanc o Gymru â gallu i ddod yn feddygon. Mae a wnelo hyn â sicrhau nad yw ein prifysgolion yn gweithredu system o ddeall pwy fydd wedyn yn cael cynnig y lleoedd sy'n gwahardd pobl ifanc rhag y lleoedd hynny. Rwyf am weld mwy o bobl o Gymru yn cael cyfleoedd i astudio meddygaeth yng Nghymru, ac mae'n rhaid ehangu'r cyfleoedd i bobl o Gymru fanteisio ar y lleoedd hynny i gyd-fynd â'r cynnydd yn y niferoedd. Oherwydd credaf fod digon o dalent ar gael yng Nghymru a fydd yn dymuno gwneud hynny. A dyna pam, i ateb cwestiynau cynharach, y ceir ymdrechion i wneud yn siŵr fod mwy o bobl yn cael eu hannog i ystyried gyrfa mewn meddygaeth mewn gwirionedd. Felly, bydd yn rhaid i'r gwaith hwnnw barhau, yn hytrach na dweud yn unig, 'Cynyddwch y nifer o leoedd a bydd y bobl yn dod.' Mae angen i'r bobl ddod o'r tu mewn i Gymru yn ogystal.
Rwy'n fwy na pharod i nodi fy mod am gael trafodaeth barhaus ynglŷn â nifer y bobl sydd gennym o fewn y proffesiwn meddygol, ynglŷn â sut a ble y cânt eu hyfforddi. Bydd bob amser angen i ni gael sgwrs ymarferol ynglŷn â hynny, i ddeall yr adnoddau sydd ar gael gennym, a gallu ein hysgolion meddygol, mewn partneriaeth â'u prifysgolion i wneud hynny. Ond ar hyn o bryd, credaf fod y cydweithredu a ddigwyddodd ar hyn, a'r gwaith sydd wedi'i wneud ar hyn gan bedair prifysgol, yn rhoi rheswm da i ni gredu y gallent hyfforddi mwy o bobl. Yr her yw ein gallu i ariannu'r hyfforddiant hwnnw, ac i wneud yn siŵr y bydd yr ehangu presennol a gyhoeddais eisoes yn llwyddiant.
Ac wrth gwrs rwyf am weld partneriaethau newydd a gyhoeddwyd gennym yn sicrhau rhagoriaeth go iawn mewn iechyd a gofal, gan gynnwys gofal iechyd gwledig. Ceir cyfle gwirioneddol inni sicrhau rhagoriaeth go iawn mewn gofal iechyd, oherwydd mae nifer o feddygon eisiau gweithio mewn cyd-destun dinesig, mae nifer o feddygon eisiau gweithio yng nghyd-destun y Cymoedd, ac mae llawer o bobl am fod yn feddygon mewn meddygaeth wledig yn ogystal, ac mae hwn yn gyfle gwirioneddol i roi mwy o gyfleoedd i'r bobl hyn wneud hynny.
Diolch i'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet.
I thank the Cabinet Secretary.
Yr eitem nesaf, felly, yw'r datganiadau 90 eiliad. Ac mae un datganiad gan Andrew R.T. Davies.
The next item, therefore, is the 90-second statements. There is one statement today from Andrew R.T. Davies.
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I'd like to draw Members' attention to the sculpture that's on the eastern side of the bay, called 'Pit to Port'. This was a lifelong ambition of Donald Ronald Harris, who was a lifelong resident of south Wales, and was a chartered ship broker and coal exporter. In a career spanning 45 years, he rose to become the south Wales area manager of Powell Duffryn International Fuels. During his period at the docks, Ron was responsible for the shipment of millions of tonnes of coal from south Wales to the continent and the rest of the world. Ron played a key role in a project for producing a dedication to the south Wales coal miners, and the industry in the area, but sadly passed away before the scheme got under way. Ron was especially keen to emphasise the link between the south Wales coal industry and Cardiff docks. Their success was intertwined and neither would have survived or thrived without the other.
Following his death, Ron's wife, Margaret, took up the challenge of seeing the project through. Along with a team of dedicated supporters, she raised £55,000 for the sculpture 'Pit to Port'. Next Monday sees the thirteenth anniversary of its unveiling on 16 July 2005 and fittingly features a coal miner, a coal truck and a steam ship. It stands just a few minutes' walk from here in Cardiff Bay, across from the Norwegian church in Brittania Park. I'm sure all Members will join me in paying tribute to Margaret and Ron for their role in securing this fitting monument of Cardiff and south Wales's industrial heritage.
Diolch i chi, Lywydd. Hoffwn dynnu sylw'r Aelodau at y cerflun ar ochr ddwyreiniol y bae, o'r enw 'Pit to Port'. Roedd yn uchelgais gydol oes i Donald Ronald Harris, a oedd yn preswylio yn ne Cymru ar hyd ei oes, ac roedd yn frocer llongau siartredig ac yn allforiwr glo. Mewn gyrfa a rychwantodd 45 mlynedd, daeth yn rheolwr ardal de Cymru i Powell Duffryn International Fuels. Yn ystod ei gyfnod yn y dociau, roedd Ron yn gyfrifol am gludo miliynau o dunelli o lo o dde Cymru i'r cyfandir a gweddill y byd. Chwaraeodd Ron ran allweddol mewn prosiect ar gyfer cynhyrchu teyrnged i lowyr de Cymru, a'r diwydiant yn yr ardal, ond yn anffodus bu farw cyn i'r cynllun fynd rhagddo. Roedd Ron yn arbennig o awyddus i bwysleisio'r cyswllt rhwng diwydiant glo de Cymru a dociau Caerdydd. Roedd eu llwyddiant yn cydblethu ac ni fyddai'r naill na'r llall wedi goroesi neu ffynnu heb y llall.
Yn dilyn ei farwolaeth, ysgwyddodd gwraig Ron, Margaret, yr her o gyflawni'r prosiect. Ynghyd â thîm o gefnogwyr ymroddedig, a gododd £55,000 ar gyfer cerflun 'Pit to Port'. Ddydd Llun nesaf, bydd tair mlynedd ar ddeg ers ei ddadorchuddio ar 16 Gorffennaf 2005 ac yn addas, mae'n dangos glöwr, lori lo a llong ager. Saif ychydig funudau i ffwrdd ar droed oddi yma ym Mae Caerdydd, gyferbyn â'r eglwys Norwyaidd ym Mharc Brittania. Rwy'n siŵr y gwnaiff bob Aelod ymuno â mi i dalu teyrnged i Margaret a Ron am eu rôl yn sicrhau heneb addas i dreftadaeth ddiwydiannol Caerdydd a de Cymru.
Yr eitem nesaf yw'r cynnig i ddiwygio Rheol Sefydlog 18 mewn perthynas â Deddf Archwilio Cyhoeddus (Cymru) 2013. Rwy'n galw ar aelod o'r Pwyllgor Busnes i wneud y cynnig—Paul Davies.
The next item is the motion to amend Standing Order 18 in relation to the Public Audit (Wales) Act 2013. I call on a member of the Business Committee to move the motion—Paul Davies.
Cynnig NDM6767 Elin Jones
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 33.2:
1. Yn ystyried adroddiad y Pwyllgor Busnes, ‘Diwygio Rheolau Sefydlog: Rheol Sefydlog 18—Deddf Archwilio Cyhoeddus (Cymru) 2013’, a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 4 Gorffennaf 2018.
2. Yn cymeradwyo’r cynnig i adolygu Rheol Sefydlog 18, fel y nodir yn atodiad B i adroddiad y Pwyllgor Busnes.
Motion NDM6767 Elin Jones
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:
1. Considers the report of the Business Committee, ‘Amending Standing Orders: Standing Order 18—Public Audit (Wales) Act 2013’, which was laid in the Table Office on 4 July 2018.
2. Approves the proposal to revise Standing Order 18, as set out in annex B of the report of the Business Committee.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Yn ffurfiol.
Formally.
Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynnig? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Felly, derbynnir y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
The question is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Yr eitem nesaf yw'r ddadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus ar gyllid cychwynnol Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer prosiect Cylchffordd Cymru. Rwy'n galw ar Gadeirydd y pwyllgor i wneud y cynnig—Nick Ramsay.
The next item is the debate on the Public Accounts Committee report on the Welsh Government's initial funding of the Circuit of Wales project. I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion—Nick Ramsay.
Cynnig NDM6766 Nick Ramsay
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:
Yn nodi adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus, 'Cyllid Cychwynnol Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer Prosiect CylchfforddCymru', a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 22 Mai 2018.
Motion NDM6766 Nick Ramsay
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
Notes the report of the Public Accounts Committee, 'The Welsh Government's initial funding of the Circuit of Wales Project', which was laid in the Table Office on 22 May 2018.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Llywydd, thank you for the opportunity to speak today about the Public Accounts Committee inquiry into the Welsh Government's initial funding of the Circuit of Wales project. The proposed Circuit of Wales was a unique and significant project, which appeared to offer the possibility of regenerating an economically deprived area. As a committee, we agreed that the Welsh Government was right to explore possibilities of making this project work, and quite properly it was not the committee's function to comment on the merits of the Cabinet's eventual decision not to provide the requested public finance support. We are deeply concerned, however, at the way this project was approached by the Welsh Government. We want Wales to be a first choice for investment, and to achieve this the decision-making processes followed by those charged with the expenditure of taxpayers' money in this way need to be both coherent and properly documented.
The Auditor General for Wales published his report on the initial funding of the Circuit of Wales in April 2017, which highlighted significant shortcomings in the Welsh Government's handling of the project. This report provided a firm foundation for the basis of our inquiry, which expanded beyond the scope of the initial funding into the Welsh Government's decision-making processes for the final proposal.
We found the approach from the Welsh Government to this project to be one of two halves: the Welsh Government made some inexplicable decisions during its initial funding of this project, such as authorising payment for the purchase of FTR, a motorcycle company in Buckinghamshire, as part of the property development grant intended to buy land in Ebbw Vale. Then, having made the initial decision not to provide the requested guarantee, the Welsh Government chose to focus its justification for this on a technical accounting matter rather than citing the comprehensive due diligence that it had commissioned. This led to public confusion and did little to promote confidence in the Government's ability to handle public money wisely and well.
The general feeling we had, as a committee, was that initially the policy decision had been taken to support the project and this had to be achieved through any means. Our role, as a Public Accounts Committee, is to make sure that the enthusiasm of politicians to achieve whatever policy goal they have doesn't lead to the cutting of corners, because that leads to bad decision making.
As we moved into the second half of our inquiry, we examined the processes leading up to the final decision of not agreeing the Welsh Government guarantee, which was essential to making the project happen. Now, we fully appreciate that governments can and sometimes should change their minds on decisions, but it's important that processes are not fixed around the policy. Processes for good governance are there for a reason: to protect public money and the reputation of good government and probity. We have serious concerns that the Welsh Government was not as transparent and comprehensive as they could have been in explaining their decision to perform what appeared to be a u-turn on the Circuit of Wales project. It's important to remember that the Welsh Government maintained its position of positivity about the project and it set its own certain criteria by which it would determine its ultimate decision. It therefore came as a shock when the Cabinet rejected the project at the eleventh hour.
Lywydd, diolch ichi am y cyfle i siarad heddiw am ymchwiliad y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus i gyllid cychwynnol Llywodraeth Cymru i brosiect Cylchffordd Cymru. Roedd cynllun arfaethedig Cylchffordd Cymru yn brosiect unigryw a sylweddol, a oedd i'w weld fel pe bai'n cynnig posibilrwydd o adfywio ardal ddifreintiedig yn economaidd. Fel pwyllgor, rydym wedi cytuno bod Llywodraeth Cymru'n iawn i archwilio posibiliadau ar gyfer gwneud i'r prosiect hwn weithio, ac yn briodol iawn nid swyddogaeth y pwyllgor oedd gwneud sylwadau ar rinweddau penderfyniad y Cabinet yn y pen draw i beidio â darparu'r cymorth cyllid cyhoeddus y gofynnwyd amdano. Rydym yn bryderus iawn, fodd bynnag, ynglŷn â'r ffordd yr aeth Llywodraeth Cymru ati ar y prosiect hwn. Rydym am i Gymru fod yn ddewis cyntaf ar gyfer buddsoddi, ac er mwyn cyflawni hyn mae angen i'r prosesau penderfynu a ddilynir gan y rhai sy'n gyfrifol am wario arian trethdalwyr yn y modd hwn fod yn gydlynol ac wedi'u dogfennu'n briodol.
Cyhoeddodd Archwilydd Cyffredinol Cymru ei adroddiad ar ariannu cychwynnol Cylchffordd Cymru ym mis Ebrill 2017, ac amlygodd ddiffygion sylweddol yn y modd yr ymdriniodd Llywodraeth Cymru â'r prosiect. Darparodd yr adroddiad sylfaen gadarn i'n hymchwiliad, a ymestynnodd y tu hwnt i gwmpas y cyllid cychwynnol i brosesau penderfynu Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer y cynnig terfynol.
Gwelsom fod dull Llywodraeth Cymru o fynd ati ar y prosiect hwn yn un o ddau hanner: gwnaeth Llywodraeth Cymru rai penderfyniadau anesboniadwy yn ystod proses gyllid cychwynnol y prosiect hwn, fel awdurdodi taliad ar gyfer prynu FTR, cwmni beiciau modur yn swydd Buckingham, fel rhan o'r grant datblygu eiddo a fwriadwyd ar gyfer prynu tir yng Nglyn Ebwy. Yna, ar ôl gwneud y penderfyniad cychwynnol i beidio â darparu'r warant y gofynnwyd amdani, dewisodd Llywodraeth Cymru ganolbwyntio ei chyfiawnhad dros hynny ar fater cyfrifyddu technegol yn hytrach na chrybwyll y diwydrwydd dyladwy cynhwysfawr a gomisiynwyd ganddi. Arweiniodd hyn at ddryswch ymhlith y cyhoedd ac ni wnaeth fawr ddim i hybu hyder yng ngallu'r Llywodraeth i drin arian cyhoeddus yn ddoeth ac yn dda.
Y teimlad cyffredinol oedd gennym, fel pwyllgor, oedd bod y penderfyniad polisi wedi'i wneud i gychwyn i gefnogi'r prosiect ac roedd yn rhaid cyflawni hyn doed a ddêl. Ein rôl ni, fel Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus, yw gwneud yn siŵr nad yw brwdfrydedd gwleidyddion i gyrraedd pa bynnag nod polisi sydd ganddynt yn arwain at dorri corneli, oherwydd mae hynny'n arwain at wneud penderfyniadau gwael.
Wrth inni symud i ail hanner ein hymchwiliad, buom yn archwilio'r prosesau a arweiniodd at y penderfyniad terfynol i beidio â chytuno i warant Llywodraeth Cymru, a oedd yn hanfodol i sicrhau bod y prosiect yn digwydd. Nawr, sylweddolwn y gall llywodraethau newid eu meddyliau ar benderfyniadau, ac y dylent wneud hynny weithiau, ond mae'n bwysig nad yw prosesau'n cael eu llunio o gwmpas y polisi. Mae yna reswm pam fod prosesau ar gael ar gyfer llywodraethu da: i ddiogelu arian cyhoeddus ac enw da am lywodraethu da ac uniondeb. Mae gennym bryderon difrifol nad oedd Llywodraeth Cymru mor dryloyw a chynhwysfawr ag y gallai fod yn egluro ei phenderfyniad i gyflawni'r hyn a ymddangosai fel tro pedol ar brosiect Cylchffordd Cymru. Mae'n bwysig cofio bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cynnal ei safbwynt cadarnhaol ynglŷn â'r prosiect a'i bod wedi gosod ei meini prawf pendant ei hun ar gyfer gwneud ei phenderfyniad terfynol. Felly roedd hi'n sioc pan wrthododd y Cabinet y prosiect ar yr unfed awr ar ddeg.
It was never made clear to us, as a committee, why this decision was taken. Was it because of the technical issue of whether or not the project would be on the balance sheet? Or was it something else? Our probing found there to be several more issues at play and there still remains an air of mystery as to how the Welsh Government, which had spent considerable time and money on the project, ended up pulling the plug on the basis of what appears to be a 20-minute Cabinet discussion. These questions still remain unanswered.
So, what can be learnt from all of this? Well, it's essential that the Welsh Government demonstrates effective management of Welsh public money and maximises the opportunities for investment in Wales. In response to successive reports in recent years from the auditor general, and from this committee and its predecessors, the Welsh Government has provided various assurances to us that lessons have been learned. But we remain unconvinced. Our scrutiny is intended to be constructive and our goal is to secure better service delivery that benefits everyone, especially the taxpayer, but the Government must learn and develop from our reports for our scrutiny to be effective.
We certainly do not expect to see any recurrence of the basic errors, omissions and poor judgment on the part of officials that have come to light as a result of this report. Unfortunately, the sorry story of the Circuit of Wales highlights the shortcomings of the Welsh Government in terms of large-scale investment projects. This particular project took seven to eight years to develop before being brought to a halt. The Welsh Government needs to be much smarter at making decisions. It needs to be quicker and it needs to be more agile. Otherwise, there is a risk to Wales more widely as an investment location. Our criticism is not directed at individuals, but instead at a wider system failure and the Welsh Government needs to address that. Wales needs investment and we need the internal capacity to be able to make quick decisions on large-scale investment projects.
The Public Accounts Committee made 13 recommendations in its report, including that the Welsh Government strengthen their controls to ensure value for public money in relation to understanding relationships between funding recipients and their contractors and suppliers; that the funding of the purchase of FTR Moto Ltd is utilised as a case study for internal training purposes by the Welsh Government, given the highly unorthodox decisions made at official level, the accompanying lack of documentation and the apparent failure of officials to seek and obtain the requisite approvals from their respective Minister; and that all Cabinet Secretaries, Ministers and all Welsh Government senior civil servants are reminded of the requirements within the ministerial and civil service codes to ensure the accuracy of all information that is released.
We welcome the Welsh Government's acceptance of the committee's recommendations. However, in places, this acceptance appears to mask the Government's intent and, hidden in accompanying detail, it appears that the recommendations have not been accepted in the spirit in which they were made. This has been a consistent theme with regard to Welsh Government responses to our recommendations, and we've raised these concerns previously and consistently.
In relation to the recommendations made in our report on the Circuit of Wales, we believe that the Welsh Government's response falls short in a number of key places. In accepting recommendation 1, the Welsh Government has only accepted that, in specific circumstances, it needs to strengthen its controls to ensure value for money. We feel that more needs to be done to ensure that officials exercise professional judgment, and our recommendation centred on the need for an improved understanding of the relationships between funding recipients and their contractors and suppliers. We wanted to see an end to the Welsh Government's repeated commercial naivety, and this is not addressed in the response to our recommendation, or, indeed, responses to previous Public Accounts Committee reports that have called for lessons to be learned.
The committee is also concerned about the Welsh Government's response to recommendation 3 of our report, where we recommend that the Welsh Government confirms to the Public Accounts Committee that it has since recovered the £100,000 from the escrow account. The response does not make it clear as to when action to recover these funds commenced, or, indeed, whether there was any intent by the Welsh Government to recover the funds until prompted by our recommendation. This is a good illustration of the Welsh Government's seeming commercial naivety. Once the decision not to invest had been taken, then retrieving this money should have been a matter of course, and the response to our recommendation should have been simply, 'We have retrieved this money.'
Finally, with regard to recommendation 6, the Welsh Government's response expresses that it already has in place robust processes for dealing with concerns about instructions from authorising officers to make payments: they're able and confident to raise those concerns with the senior independent manager. We are not convinced, and would welcome further information from the Welsh Government on how many instances there have been in recent years where concerns such as these have been raised, and some explanation of how these processes have proven to be robust. I look forward to listening to the debate today. Diolch.
Ni chafodd erioed ei wneud yn glir i ni, fel pwyllgor, pam y gwnaed y penderfyniad hwn. Ai oherwydd mater technegol yn ymwneud ag a fyddai'r prosiect ar y fantolen ai peidio? Neu rywbeth arall? Canfuom ei fod yn ymwneud â nifer o faterion ac mae'n ddirgelwch o hyd sut y bu i Lywodraeth Cymru, a oedd wedi treulio cryn amser ac wedi gwario arian sylweddol ar y prosiect, ei ddirwyn i ben yn y pen draw ar sail yr hyn a ymddangosai fel trafodaeth 20 munud yn y Cabinet. Mae'r cwestiynau hyn yn dal i fod heb eu hateb.
Felly, beth y gallwn ei ddysgu o hyn i gyd? Wel, mae'n hanfodol fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn dangos rheolaeth effeithiol ar arian cyhoeddus Cymru ac yn manteisio i'r eithaf ar y cyfleoedd ar gyfer buddsoddi yng Nghymru. Mewn ymateb i adroddiadau olynol yn y blynyddoedd diweddar gan yr archwilydd cyffredinol, a chan y pwyllgor hwn a a'i ragflaenwyr, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi darparu sicrwydd inni ar sawl achlysur fod gwersi wedi'u dysgu. Ond nid ydym wedi ein hargyhoeddi. Bwriedir i'n gwaith craffu fod yn adeiladol a'n nod yw sicrhau bod gwasanaethau yn cael eu darparu'n well er budd pawb, yn enwedig y trethdalwr, ond rhaid i'r Llywodraeth ddysgu a datblygu o'n hadroddiadau er mwyn i'n gwaith craffu fod yn effeithiol.
Yn sicr nid ydym yn disgwyl gweld camgymeriadau sylfaenol, hepgoriadau a chrebwyll gwael yn cael eu hailadrodd ar ran swyddogion fel y daeth yn amlwg o ganlyniad i'r adroddiad hwn. Yn anffodus, mae stori drist Cylchffordd Cymru yn amlygu diffygion Llywodraeth Cymru mewn perthynas â phrosiectau buddsoddi ar raddfa fawr. Cymerodd y prosiect penodol hwn saith i wyth mlynedd i ddatblygu cyn cael ei ddirwyn i ben. Mae angen i Lywodraeth Cymru fod yn llawer mwy doeth wrth wneud penderfyniadau. Mae angen iddi fod yn gyflymach ac mae angen iddi fod yn fwy hyblyg. Fel arall, ceir risg i Gymru yn ehangach fel lleoliad ar gyfer buddsoddi. Nid yw ein beirniadaeth wedi'i chyfeirio tuag at unigolion, ond yn hytrach tuag at fethiant yn y system ehangach ac mae angen i Lywodraeth Cymru fynd i'r afael â hynny. Mae angen buddsoddiad ar Gymru ac mae angen gallu mewnol i wneud penderfyniadau cyflym ynglŷn â phrosiectau buddsoddi ar raddfa fawr.
Gwnaeth y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus 13 o argymhellion yn ei adroddiad, gan gynnwys yr argymhelliad y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru gryfhau ei mesurau rheoli i sicrhau gwerth am arian cyhoeddus mewn perthynas â deall cysylltiadau rhwng y rhai sy'n derbyn cyllid a'u contractwyr a'u cyflenwyr; fod ariannu pryniant FTR Moto Ltd yn cael ei ddefnyddio fel astudiaeth achos at ddibenion hyfforddiant mewnol gan Lywodraeth Cymru, o ystyried y penderfyniadau anghyffredin iawn a wnaed ar lefel swyddogol, y diffyg dogfennau cysylltiedig a methiant ymddangosiadol swyddogion i geisio cael y cymeradwyaethau angenrheidiol gan eu Gweinidog priodol; ac yr atgoffir holl Ysgrifenyddion y Cabinet, Gweinidogion ac uwch-weision sifil Llywodraeth Cymru ynglŷn â'r gofynion yn y codau gweinidogol a chodau'r gwasanaeth sifil ar gyfer sicrhau cywirdeb yr holl wybodaeth a gaiff ei rhyddhau.
Rydym yn croesawu'r ffaith bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi derbyn argymhellion y pwyllgor. Fodd bynnag, mewn mannau, mae'r derbyniad i'w weld yn cuddio bwriad y Llywodraeth ac wedi'i guddio yn y manylion cysylltiedig, mae'n ymddangos nad yw'r argymhellion wedi cael eu derbyn yn yr ysbryd y'u gwnaethpwyd. Mae hon wedi bod yn thema gyson mewn perthynas ag ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru i'n hargymhellion, ac rydym wedi mynegi'r pryderon hyn o'r blaen, a hynny'n gyson.
Mewn perthynas â'r argymhellion a wnaed yn ein hadroddiad ar Gylchffordd Cymru, rydym yn credu bod ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru'n ddiffygiol mewn nifer o fannau allweddol. Wrth dderbyn argymhelliad 1, nid yw Llywodraeth Cymru ond wedi derbyn, mewn amgylchiadau penodol, fod angen iddi gryfhau ei mesurau rheoli er mwyn sicrhau gwerth am arian. Rydym yn teimlo bod angen gwneud rhagor i sicrhau bod swyddogion yn arfer crebwyll proffesiynol, ac roedd ein hargymhelliad yn canolbwyntio ar yr angen am well dealltwriaeth o'r berthynas rhwng y rhai sy'n derbyn cyllid a'u contractwyr a'u cyflenwyr. Roeddem am weld diwedd ar naïfrwydd masnachol cyson Llywodraeth Cymru, ac nid ymdrinnir â hyn yn yr ymateb i'n hargymhelliad, nac yn wir yn yr ymatebion i adroddiadau blaenorol gan y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus sydd wedi galw am ddysgu gwersi.
Mae'r pwyllgor yn pryderu hefyd ynghylch ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru i argymhelliad 3 o'n hadroddiad, lle rydym yn argymell bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn cadarnhau i'r Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus ei bod wedi adfer y £100,000 o'r cyfrif ysgrow ers hynny. Nid yw'r ymateb yn ei gwneud yn glir pa bryd y dechreuodd camau i adfer y cronfeydd hyn, neu yn wir, a oedd unrhyw fwriad gan Lywodraeth Cymru i adfer yr arian tan iddi gael ei hysgogi i wneud hynny gan ein hargymhelliad. Mae hon yn enghraifft dda o naïfrwydd masnachol ymddangosiadol Llywodraeth Cymru. Pan wnaed y penderfyniad i beidio â buddsoddi, dylai adfer yr arian fod wedi digwydd fel mater o drefn, a dylai'r ymateb i'n hargymhelliad fod wedi dweud yn syml, 'Rydym wedi adfer yr arian hwn.'
Yn olaf, mewn perthynas ag argymhelliad 6, mae ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru yn mynegi bod ganddi brosesau cadarn ar waith eisoes ar gyfer ymdrin â phryderon am gyfarwyddiadau gan swyddogion awdurdodi i wneud taliadau: maent yn abl ac yn hyderus i ddwyn y pryderon i sylw'r uwch-reolwr annibynnol. Nid ydym wedi ein hargyhoeddi, a byddem yn croesawu mwy o wybodaeth gan Lywodraeth Cymru ynglŷn â faint o achosion a fu yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf lle y mynegwyd pryderon fel y rhain, a rhyw eglurhad ynglŷn â sut y mae'r prosesau hyn wedi profi'n gadarn. Edrychaf ymlaen at wrando ar y ddadl heddiw. Diolch.
It's a pleasure to follow the Chair in presenting, I think, very comprehensively and cogently, what is, I think—we all have to accept—a pretty damning report. And, indeed, it's hard to think of a more damning committee report or, indeed, a more damning auditor general report, which accompanied it. On the face of it, as he said, the Government accepts all our recommendations, but when you delve into the detail, of course, doubt remains as to whether the truth that lies behind the criticism has hit home and will change the practices that we have laid bare.
I'm confused. The £100,000 in the escrow account, I mean, what, the Government didn't know? They forgot? One possibility, of course, is that it was a non-refundable deposit, effectively an option, seeing as the option then was null and void because the Government decided to pull the plug on the project. That's possible, but they would have known, surely, because that would've been drawn up in the papers at the time. So, maybe the Cabinet Secretary can illuminate us on that point.
What, I think, the report lays bare, really, are some fundamental failings in the way that the Government conducts its decision making, and the transparency, bordering on opacity, bordering on—to use that phrase—a reckless disregard for the truth at times. It has to be honest about that. This poor decision making is there, right at the heart of the way the Government has approached a whole host of investments, small and large, which, of course, have been very much at the heart of the work of the Public Accounts Committee.
I'd like to just concentrate on one of the responses to the recommendations because, as the Chair has said, what's crucial, really, is what happens now, in response. If we continue to make these same mistakes, then we will never get out of the kinds of travails that we have found ourselves in in relation to this project.
The Government, in response to recommendation 13, about the outstanding debt to the Government from the Heads of the Valleys Development Company, says that it is aware of a number of proposals to resurrect the project, and it's aware, particularly, of a new promoter that, it says, has asked that the Welsh Government releases them from the liability connected with that £7.3 million loan. Now, I think we need to know more about that, don't we?
I think the Cabinet Secretary should use this opportunity to tell us more about that proposal, because, as I understand, it's a proposal from the US-based real estate investors or developers, Rocksteady Partners—a curious name, I think, for an investment company. Methinks they protest too much, possibly. Rocksteady, which lists supercasinos as one of its key areas of experience and, indeed, has one of its many offices, it's fair to say, in Las Vegas, Nevada, is promoting a proposal that combines the race track with the development of a leisure resort and includes a casino as part of its proposal.
The Government, in its response, is saying that, in return for releasing them from the liability, the quid pro quo is that the Welsh Government gets an equity stake. Is the Welsh Government seriously saying that it's open to any proposal that would have it, and therefore the Welsh public, holding an equity stake in a casino in one of the poorest parts of Wales? I mean, that is entirely unacceptable that even that could be entertained as a proposition. So, can the Cabinet Secretary, when he gets up to contribute to this debate, confirm that the new promoter that he is talking about is Rocksteady Partners?
The bigger truth, I think, laid bare here, is how appallingly bad we are at dealing with major projects. We lurch, really, from one game-changing project to another and very few of them come to anything. LG Semicon, Legend Court, Valleywood, Pinewood, now, of course, St Athan and the tidal lagoon—different reasons for the failure of these projects, but the map of Wales is becoming littered by a junkyard of broken dreams, and we have to break that cycle. There are a few exceptions: Swansea bay innovation campus, Celtic Manor, the new compound semiconductor centre. The difference is when we decide to create something ourselves instead of relying on external actors, whether they're based in Nevada or not. It will always be the same unless we put ourselves in the driving seat. Unless we do that, then we will get nowhere, and I would appeal to the Welsh Government: we need to look at building up our ability to deliver major projects, because what was laid bare in this one is that the Welsh Government, currently, neither has the skills nor the experience to do so.
Mae'n bleser cael dilyn y Cadeirydd i gyflwyno, rwy'n credu, yn gynhwysfawr ac yn gadarn iawn yr hyn sydd, rwy'n credu—rhaid i ni dderbyn—yn adroddiad go ddamniol. Ac yn wir, mae'n anodd meddwl am adroddiad pwyllgor mwy damniol nac yn wir adroddiad archwilydd cyffredinol a ddaeth gydag ef sy'n fwy damniol. Ar yr wyneb, fel y dywedodd, mae'r Llywodraeth yn derbyn ein hargymhellion i gyd, ond pan edrychwch yn iawn ar y manylion, wrth gwrs, mae yna amheuaeth o hyd a yw'r gwirionedd sy'n sail i'r feirniadaeth wedi gwneud argraff ac yn mynd i newid yr arferion a ddatgelwyd gennym.
Rwyf mewn penbleth. Y £100,000 yn y cyfrif ysgrow, hynny yw, beth, nid oedd y Llywodraeth yn gwybod? Roeddent wedi anghofio? Un posibilrwydd, wrth gwrs, yw mai blaendal nad oedd yn ad-daladwy ydoedd, opsiwn i bob pwrpas, a gweld bod yr opsiwn felly'n ddi-rym oherwydd bod y Llywodraeth wedi penderfynu dirwyn y prosiect i ben. Mae hynny'n bosibl, ond byddent wedi gwybod, does bosib, oherwydd byddai hynny wedi'i gynnwys yn y papurau ar y pryd. Felly, efallai y gall yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet ein goleuo ar y pwynt hwnnw.
Yr hyn y mae'r adroddiad yn ei ddatgelu, rwy'n credu, yw diffygion sylfaenol yn y ffordd y mae'r Llywodraeth yn gwneud ei phenderfyniadau, a'r tryloywder, sy'n ffinio ar anhryloywder, sy'n ffinio ar—i ddefnyddio'r ymadrodd hwnnw—ddiffyg ystyriaeth rhyfygus ynghylch y gwirionedd ar adegau. Mae'n rhaid iddo fod yn onest am hynny. Mae'r penderfyniadau gwael hyn yno, wrth wraidd y ffordd y mae'r Llywodraeth yn mynd i'r afael â llu o fuddsoddiadau, bach a mawr, sydd, wrth gwrs, wedi bod yn ganolog iawn i waith y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus.
Hoffwn ganolbwyntio ar un o'r ymatebion i'r argymhellion oherwydd, fel y dywedodd y Cadeirydd, yr hyn sy'n allweddol mewn gwirionedd, yw beth sy'n digwydd yn awr, mewn ymateb. Os ydym yn parhau i wneud yr un camgymeriadau, ni fyddwn byth yn dod allan o'r mathau o drafferthion rydym ynddynt mewn perthynas â'r prosiect hwn.
Dywed y Llywodraeth, mewn ymateb i argymhelliad 13, am y ddyled sydd heb ei thalu i'r Llywodraeth gan Gwmni Datblygu Blaenau'r Cymoedd, ei bod yn ymwybodol o nifer o gynigion i atgyfodi'r prosiect, ac mae'n ymwybodol yn arbennig, o hyrwyddwr newydd y mae'n dweud ei fod wedi gofyn i Lywodraeth Cymru eu rhyddhau o'r atebolrwydd sy'n gysylltiedig â'r benthyciad hwnnw o £7.3 miliwn. Nawr, credaf fod angen inni wybod mwy am hynny, onid oes?
Credaf y dylai Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ddefnyddio'r cyfle hwn i ddweud mwy wrthym am y cynnig hwnnw, oherwydd, yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf, mae'n gynnig gan fuddsoddwyr neu ddatblygwyr eiddo tirol sy'n gweithio yn yr Unol Daleithiau, Rocksteady Partners—enw rhyfedd, fe gredaf, ar gwmni buddsoddi. Rwy'n credu eu bod yn protestio gormod, o bosibl. Mae Rocksteady, sy'n rhestru casinos mawr fel un o'i feysydd profiad allweddol ac yn wir, sydd ag un o'i nifer o swyddfeydd, mae'n deg dweud, yn Las Vegas, Nevada, yn hyrwyddo cynnig sy'n cyfuno'r trac rasio gyda datblygu cyrchfan hamdden ac mae'n cynnwys casino fel rhan o'i gynnig.
Mae'r Llywodraeth, yn ei hymateb, yn dweud, yn gyfnewid am eu rhyddhau o'r rhwymedigaeth, mai'r quid pro quo yw bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn cael cyfran ecwiti. A yw Llywodraeth Cymru o ddifrif yn dweud ei bod yn agored i unrhyw gynnig a fyddai'n golygu ei bod hi, ac felly'r cyhoedd yng Nghymru, yn dal cyfran ecwiti mewn casino yn un o'r rhannau tlotaf o Gymru? Hynny yw, mae'n gwbl annerbyniol y gellid ystyried hynny fel cynnig hyd yn oed. Felly, a all Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, pan fydd yn codi i gyfrannu at y ddadl hon, gadarnhau mai'r hyrwyddwr newydd y mae'n sôn amdano yw Rocksteady Partners?
Y gwir mwy, rwy'n meddwl, a ddatgelwyd yma, yw pa mor echrydus o wael yr ydym am ymdrin â phrosiectau mawr. Rydym yn gwegian, mewn gwirionedd, o un prosiect sy'n creu newid sylfaenol i'r llall, ac ychydig iawn ohonynt sy'n cyflawni unrhyw beth. LG Semicon, Legend Court, Valleywood, Pinewood, nawr, wrth gwrs, Sain Tathan a'r morlyn llanw—rhesymau gwahanol dros fethiant y prosiectau hyn, ond mae'r map o Gymru yn frith o sbwriel breuddwydion briw, a rhaid inni dorri'r cylch hwnnw. Ceir rhai eithriadau: campws arloesedd bae Abertawe, Celtic Manor, y ganolfan lled-ddargludyddion cyfansawdd newydd. Y gwahaniaeth yw pan fyddwn yn penderfynu creu rhywbeth ein hunain yn hytrach na dibynnu ar weithredwyr allanol, pa un a ydynt wedi'u lleoli yn Nevada ai peidio. Bydd hi bob amser yr un fath oni bai ein bod ni'n mynd y tu ôl i'r llyw. Os na wnawn hynny, ni chyrhaeddwn unman, a charwn apelio ar Lywodraeth Cymru: mae angen inni edrych ar adeiladu ein gallu i gyflawni prosiectau mawr, oherwydd yr hyn a ddatgelwyd yn hwn yw nad oes gan Lywodraeth Cymru mo'r sgiliau na'r profiad i wneud hynny ar hyn o bryd.
Our distinguished Chairman, in, I thought, a measured and matter-of-fact speech, exposed with deadly accuracy the failure of this Government to support what would have been a visionary project that could have transformed the whole of south-east Wales. When the Circuit of Wales promoters started out on their melancholy journey to obtain Government support for this project, I don't suppose they thought, at the end of the day, that they would be the only ones who would be given the run-around on the circuit, but that is exactly what happened. It's a shocking catalogue of political myopia, administrative incompetence, evasiveness and even duplicity. And, I agree with Adam Price in what he said, that the auditor general's report, and, indeed, the Public Accounts Committee's report could not be more damning of a Government in the way that it's handled this, or indeed, any project.
This was going to be a major game changer for the northern Valleys and for the whole of south Wales, bringing in a huge amount of private sector money—£410 million—on the basis of a limited guarantee by the Welsh Government, which had a maximum commitment of £8 million a year, admittedly for a potential 30 years, sometime in the future, but, a guarantee that would be secured on assets, which, by then, would already be built. So, it would not just be money down the drain; there would be something in return. And, assuming the project were successful, the Government would actually get paid £3 million a year for its guarantee. So, given that the objections that have been produced by the Government at different stages have all been different themselves and have ended up with something that was never even thought of at the start, but ought to have been known in relation to the classification of the private sector debt as effectively on the Government balance sheet for reasons that still remain obscure, then I do think that this is a disgraceful story that requires to be the subject of a major apology by the Government, not that I'm sure we will get anything like that.
There isn't time to go into detail about every criticism that is made in this report, but let's just look at the £9.3 million of project finance that was put in, right at the very start, to establish the development potential of this project. I supported that decision on the grounds that this was well worth a punt, but I would never have supported that decision if I had known, at the end of the day and two years' extra work and £50 million-worth of development costs that had been assumed by the private sector promoters, that the Government were going to pull the plug on the scheme because of an accounting device in the Treasury rule book. The Treasury rule book was there at the start. If there was a possibility that the project was going to be classified as Government debt, and obviously the Government could not assume a potential debt of £400 million, given the limitations on its borrowing powers, that ought have been on the table right from the very start. We've still had no explanation, even after all this, as to why it was that that private sector debt might be classified as on the Government's books.
The one thing that we never ever got out of this project was any clear statement from the Government as to why they thought that this was a project that was not viable. The Cabinet Secretary, in various statements, has said that it didn't stack up in commercial terms, but there has never been any information emerging from the due-diligence process that the Government engaged in that was able to demonstrate that. Of course it's a speculative project, it's a project that starts from scratch with a bare site, but an exciting project that could have transformed the whole of Wales, actually, both as a tourist attraction and with the automotive park that the developers hoped to attract on the basis of the circuit. Instead of which, the risks that I've just alluded to were too much for the Government, but they found in the back pocket, when the scheme was murdered by the Cabinet decision—they found in the back pocket £100 million from nowhere to build a series of empty sheds for which there are no known customers. Now, that seems to me to be the most extraordinary paradox—that they weren't able to accept £400 million of private money to build a project for which there was a commercial rationale, but they were able to find £100 million of public money to build something for which there is, at the moment, at any rate, no demand. So, that is a pure speculation.
So, this, I think, is an appalling example of Government mismanagement for all the reasons that are laid out in glorious Technicolor, or inglorious Technicolor, in the course of the report. But what a shocking indictment of the Government—what an appalling advertisement for Wales as a potential home for private sector investment. We desperately need to reduce the dependence of Wales on the public sector and to get private money in, because we need to increase the wealth-creating potential of the economy to raise the level of income in this country. Without that, we will carry on the story of poverty and decline over which the Welsh Government has presided for the last 20 years, extending what we've gone through in the last 100.
Roeddwn i'n meddwl bod ein Cadeirydd nodedig, mewn araith bwyllog a digyffro, wedi dangos gyda chywirdeb angheuol fethiant y Llywodraeth hon i gefnogi'r hyn a fyddai wedi bod yn brosiect ysbrydoledig a allai fod wedi trawsnewid de-ddwyrain Cymru gyfan. Pan ddechreuodd hyrwyddwyr Cylchffordd Cymru ar eu taith felancolaidd i gael cefnogaeth y Llywodraeth ar gyfer y prosiect hwn, nid wyf yn tybio eu bod wedi meddwl, yn y pen draw, mai hwy fyddai'r unig rai a fyddai'n cael tro o gwmpas y gylchffordd, a hwnnw’n dro trwstan, ond dyna'n union a ddigwyddodd. Mae'n hanes brawychus o fyopia gwleidyddol, anghymhwysedd gweinyddol, gochelgarwch a dauwynebogrwydd hyd yn oed. A chytunaf ag Adam Price yn yr hyn a ddywedodd, na allai adroddiad yr archwilydd cyffredinol, ac yn wir, adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus fod yn fwy damniol o Lywodraeth yn y ffordd y mae wedi ymdrin â hyn, neu unrhyw brosiect yn wir.
Roedd hyn yn mynd i sicrhau newid sylfaenol i'r Cymoedd gogleddol ac i dde Cymru yn ei gyfanrwydd, gan ddod â swm enfawr o arian y sector preifat—£410 miliwn—ar sail gwarant gyfyngedig gan Lywodraeth Cymru, a oedd wedi ymrwymo uchafswm o £8 miliwn y flwyddyn, am 30 mlynedd bosibl rhaid cyfaddef, rywbryd yn y dyfodol, ond gwarant a fyddai wedi'i diogelu ar asedau a fyddai, erbyn hynny, eisoes wedi cael eu hadeiladu. Felly, ni fyddai'n arian gwastraff; byddai rhywbeth i'w gael yn gyfnewid amdano. A chan dybio y byddai'r prosiect yn llwyddiannus, byddai'r Llywodraeth yn cael £3 miliwn y flwyddyn am ei gwarant. Felly, o ystyried bod y gwrthwynebiadau sydd wedi'u cynhyrchu gan y Llywodraeth ar wahanol gamau i gyd wedi bod yn wahanol eu hunain ac wedi cael rhywbeth yn y pen draw na fyddai neb wedi meddwl amdano ar y cychwyn hyd yn oed, ond a ddylai fod wedi bod yn hysbys mewn perthynas â dosbarthu dyled y sector preifat mor effeithiol ar fantolen y Llywodraeth am resymau sy'n parhau i fod yn aneglur, credaf fod hon yn stori warthus a ddylai fod yn destun ymddiheuriad mawr gan y Llywodraeth, er nad wyf yn siŵr y cawn unrhyw beth tebyg i hynny.
Nid oes amser i fanylu ar bob beirniadaeth a wnaed yn yr adroddiad hwn, ond gadewch inni edrych ar y £9.3 miliwn o gyllid prosiect a ddarparwyd, ar y cychwyn cyntaf, i sefydlu potensial datblygu'r prosiect hwn. Cefnogais y penderfyniad ar y sail fod hwn yn syniad gwerth ei gefnogi, ond ni fyddwn byth wedi cefnogi'r penderfyniad hwnnw pe bawn yn gwybod, yn y pen draw ac wedi dwy flynedd o waith ychwanegol a gwerth £50 miliwn o gostau datblygu a ysgwyddwyd gan hyrwyddwyr y sector preifat, fod y Llywodraeth yn mynd i roi diwedd ar y cynllun oherwydd dyfais gyfrifyddu yn llyfr rheolau'r Trysorlys. Roedd llyfr rheolau'r Trysorlys yno ar y dechrau. Os oedd posibilrwydd y byddai'r prosiect yn cael ei ddosbarthu fel dyled Llywodraeth, ac yn amlwg, os na allai'r Llywodraeth ysgwyddo dyled bosibl o £400 miliwn, o ystyried y cyfyngiadau ar ei phwerau benthyca, dylai hynny fod ar y bwrdd o'r dechrau un. Nid ydym wedi cael unrhyw esboniad o hyd, hyd yn oed ar ôl hyn i gyd, pam na chafodd y ddyled sector preifat honno ei dosbarthu fel un a oedd ar lyfrau'r Llywodraeth.
Un peth na chawsom gan y prosiect hwn oedd unrhyw ddatganiad clir gan y Llywodraeth ynglŷn â pham y credent fod hwn yn brosiect nad oedd yn hyfyw. Mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, mewn datganiadau amrywiol, wedi dweud nad oedd yn gwneud synnwyr o safbwynt masnachol, ond ni chafwyd unrhyw wybodaeth yn deillio o'r broses diwydrwydd dyladwy a wnaed gan y Llywodraeth a allai ddangos hynny. Wrth gwrs mae'n brosiect hapfasnachol, mae'n brosiect sy'n dechrau o'r dechrau gyda safle moel, ond prosiect cyffrous a allai fod wedi trawsnewid Cymru gyfan, mewn gwirionedd, fel atyniad i dwristiaid a chyda'r parc modurol y gobeithiai'r datblygwyr ei ddenu ar sail y gylchffordd. Yn lle hynny, roedd y risgiau y cyfeiriais atynt yn awr yn ormod i'r Llywodraeth, ond yn y boced ôl, pan gafodd y cynllun ei lofruddio gan benderfyniad Cabinet—cawsant hyd i £100 miliwn yn y boced ôl o unman i adeiladu cyfres o siediau gwag heb unrhyw gwsmeriaid y gwyddys amdanynt ar eu cyfer. Nawr, mae hynny i'w weld yn baradocs rhyfeddol iawn—nad oeddent yn gallu derbyn £400 miliwn o arian preifat i adeiladu prosiect heb sail resymegol masnachol drosto, ond roeddent yn gallu dod o hyd i £100 miliwn o arian cyhoeddus i adeiladu rhywbeth nad oes unrhyw alw amdano, ar hyn o bryd o leiaf. Felly, dyfalu pur yw hynny.
Felly, credaf fod hon yn enghraifft warthus o gamreoli gan y Llywodraeth am yr holl resymau a nodwyd yn ogoneddus o amlwg, neu fel arall, yng nghwrs yr adroddiad. Ond am gyhuddiad ysgytiol yn erbyn y Llywodraeth—am hysbyseb echrydus i Gymru fel cartref posibl ar gyfer buddsoddiad sector preifat. Mae taer angen lleihau dibyniaeth Cymru ar y sector cyhoeddus a chael arian preifat i mewn, oherwydd mae angen inni gynyddu potensial creu cyfoeth yr economi i godi lefel incwm yn y wlad hon. Heb hynny, byddwn yn parhau â stori tlodi a dirywiad o dan Lywodraeth Cymru dros yr 20 mlynedd diwethaf, gan ymestyn yr hyn yr aethom drwyddo yn y 100 mlynedd diwethaf.
This report from the Public Accounts Committee highlights significant shortcomings and, in some cases, inexplicable decisions regarding the Welsh Government approach to funding the Circuit of Wales project. This project was widely welcomed, presenting, as it did, an opportunity to regenerate one of the most economically deprived areas in Wales. The Welsh Government was right to explore the viability of the proposed Circuit of Wales, but, in their eagerness to bring this project to fruition, officials made basic errors, omissions and exercised poor judgment.
The fact is that the Circuit of Wales project was handled appallingly. Millions of pounds of taxpayers' money were wasted, and the people of Blaenau Gwent first had their hopes raised and then dashed by the Welsh Government's botched handling of this project. The cornerstone of any effective democracy is ministerial oversight, yet, in this case, it was lacking. This report paints a picture of a department in chaos. Officials were, effectively, running the show and taking key decisions without ministerial approval, and among the glaring errors made by the officials was the decision to approve the purchase of a motorcycle firm in England. This company, FTR, was bought with funds supplied from the Welsh Government property development grant—a grant that can be used to fund the purchase of land and property by the private sector to stimulate economic development. The Heads of the Valleys Development Company used the £300,000 grant to buy FTR, which has now gone into liquidation. The Welsh Government has failed to explain how this purchase was approved when none of the stated reasons aligned with the approved objectives of the property development grant scheme. Indeed, there is no evidence to confirm that, then, the Minister was even aware of the decision. When this matter was raised by the Member of Parliament, an incorrect and misleading press statement was issued, saying that no Welsh Government funds were used to buy FTR—a press statement that originated from the same team of officials responsible for agreeing the eligible expenditure and authorising the grant claim payment for the acquisition.
This is just one shocking example of many concerns raised by the committee about the robustness of the decision-making process—concerns about the rationales for various decisions made by officials, poor record keeping, and evidence, both orally and verbally, judged by the committee to be evasive. All this points to a department out of control. Effective action must be taken to ensure that this cannot happen again.
The committee calls for robust and effective governance and internal communication channels to guarantee that such issues do not recur again. However, there appears to be a culture of rewarding failures. Instead of clear and robust action from the First Minister, he failed to give any assurance that sanctions would be taken against officials found to have been responsible for failures identified in this report. Presiding Officer, this report clearly demonstrates that the Welsh Government failed to give proper oversight to its investment of public money in the Circuit of Wales project. They failed to demonstrate value for money of this investment. In doing so, they let the people of Blaenau Gwent down, and down badly; they have let the taxpayer down; they have let Wales down. Thank you very much.
Mae'r adroddiad hwn gan y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus yn tynnu sylw at ddiffygion sylweddol ac mewn rhai achosion, at benderfyniadau anesboniadwy ynghylch dull Llywodraeth Cymru o ariannu prosiect Cylchffordd Cymru. Croesawyd y prosiect yn eang, a rhoddai gyfle i adfywio un o'r ardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig yn economaidd yng Nghymru. Roedd Llywodraeth Cymru yn iawn i ystyried ymarferoldeb y syniad o Gylchffordd Cymru, ond yn eu hawydd i weld y prosiect yn dwyn ffrwyth, gwnaeth swyddogion gamgymeriadau a hepgoriadau sylfaenol ac arfer crebwyll gwael.
Y ffaith amdani yw bod prosiect Cylchffordd Cymru wedi cael ei drefnu'n ofnadwy. Gwastraffwyd miliynau o bunnoedd o arian y trethdalwyr, a chafodd pobl Blaenau Gwent eu gobeithion wedi'u codi yn gyntaf, ac yna'u chwalu gan y modd carbwl yr ymdriniodd Llywodraeth Cymru â'r prosiect hwn. Conglfaen unrhyw ddemocratiaeth effeithiol yw goruchwyliaeth weinidogol, ac eto, yn yr achos hwn, roedd ar goll. Mae'r adroddiad hwn yn rhoi darlun o adran mewn anhrefn. I bob pwrpas, roedd swyddogion yn rhedeg y sioe ac yn gwneud penderfyniadau allweddol heb gymeradwyaeth weinidogol, ac ymhlith y camgymeriadau amlwg a wnaed gan y swyddogion, roedd y penderfyniad i gymeradwyo pryniant cwmni beiciau modur yn Lloegr. Prynwyd y cwmni, FTR, gydag arian a ddarparwyd gan grant datblygu eiddo Llywodraeth Cymru—grant y gellir ei ddefnyddio i ariannu pryniant tir ac eiddo gan y sector preifat i ysgogi datblygiad economaidd. Defnyddiodd Cwmni Datblygu Blaenau'r Cymoedd y grant o £300,000 i brynu FTR, sydd bellach wedi mynd i'r wal. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi methu egluro sut y cymeradwywyd y pryniant hwn pan nad oedd yr un o'r rhesymau a nodwyd yn cyd-fynd ag amcanion cymeradwy y cynllun grant datblygu eiddo. Yn wir, nid oes unrhyw dystiolaeth i gadarnhau bod y Gweinidog yn ymwybodol o'r penderfyniad hyd yn oed. Pan godwyd y mater gan yr Aelod Seneddol, cyhoeddwyd datganiad i'r wasg anghywir a chamarweiniol, yn dweud na ddefnyddiwyd unrhyw arian Llywodraeth Cymru i brynu FTR—datganiad i'r wasg a oedd yn tarddu o'r un tîm o swyddogion a oedd yn gyfrifol am gytuno'r gwariant cymwys ac awdurdodi taliad y cais am grant ar gyfer y caffaeliad.
Un enghraifft syfrdanol yw hon o'r nifer o bryderon a fynegwyd gan y pwyllgor ynghylch cadernid y broses o wneud penderfyniadau—pryderon am y seiliau rhesymegol ar gyfer gwahanol benderfyniadau a wnaed gan swyddogion, diffygion wrth gadw cofnodion a thystiolaeth, ar lafar ac yn ysgrifenedig, a oedd yn osgoilyd ym marn y pwyllgor. Mae hyn i gyd yn arwydd o adran allan o reolaeth. Rhaid cymryd camau effeithiol i sicrhau na all hyn ddigwydd eto.
Mae'r pwyllgor yn galw am lywodraethu a sianeli cyfathrebu mewnol cadarn ac effeithiol i warantu nad yw pethau o'r fath yn digwydd eto. Fodd bynnag, ymddengys bod yna ddiwylliant o wobrwyo methiannau. Yn hytrach na gweithredu clir a chadarn gan y Prif Weinidog, methodd roi unrhyw sicrwydd y byddai swyddogion y gwelwyd eu bod yn gyfrifol am fethiannau a nodwyd yn yr adroddiad yn cael eu cosbi. Lywydd, mae'r adroddiad hwn yn dangos yn glir fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi methu goruchwylio ei buddsoddiad arian cyhoeddus ym mhrosiect Cylchffordd Cymru. Maent wedi methu dangos gwerth am arian y buddsoddiad hwn. Wrth wneud hynny, maent wedi gwneud cam â phobl Blaenau Gwent, a cham mawr ar hynny; maent wedi gwneud cam â'r trethdalwr; maent wedi gwneud cam â Chymru. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Galwaf ar Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth i siarad—Ken Skates.
I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport to speak—Ken Skates.
Diolch, Llywydd. I am very grateful to Members for the report by the Public Accounts Committee and, in particular, can I thank the committee's Chair, Nick Ramsay, for providing an opportunity for me to respond to the recommendations? I think it's fair to say that, despite a huge amount of effort and work on all sides, the Welsh Government was not in a position to support the Circuit of Wales with public finance. We worked incredibly hard with the project promoters to support the project through a significant period of time as we fully recognised the potential positive economic impact that a sustainable project of this type could have in a deprived area. It was a large undertaking. The committee and Members in this Chamber can see the lengths that the Government went to to explore its viability. However, we were always clear that any support provided by the taxpayer needed to be both proportionate and fair. Despite the time and support provided, the project promoters were unable to provide a proposition that met the Welsh Government's stated criteria, and the final project proposal was assessed to be very high risk, with most of the risk, in effect, being borne by Government, and therefore by the taxpayer.
It was also assessed that the benefits claimed for the project, in particular the jobs created, were at best very uncertain. Because of all of these factors and the fact that, despite years of effort, the project promoters had been unable to come up with a compelling proposal with an appropriate balance of risk and reward for the taxpayer, the Cabinet concluded that it could not provide further support. Overall, the final version of the project did not represent good value for money for Welsh taxpayers.
Diolch, Lywydd. Rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn i'r Aelodau am yr adroddiad gan y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus ac yn benodol, a gaf fi ddiolch i Nick Ramsay, Cadeirydd y pwyllgor, am roi cyfle i mi ymateb i'r argymhellion? Credaf ei bod yn deg dweud, er gwaethaf llawer iawn o ymdrech a gwaith ar bob ochr, nad oedd Llywodraeth Cymru mewn sefyllfa i gefnogi Cylchffordd Cymru gyda chyllid cyhoeddus. Gweithiasom yn anhygoel o galed gyda hyrwyddwyr y prosiect i gefnogi'r prosiect drwy gyfnod sylweddol o amser wrth inni lawn gydnabod yr effaith economaidd gadarnhaol bosibl a allai fod i brosiect cynaliadwy o'r math hwn mewn ardal ddifreintiedig. Roedd yn ymrwymiad mawr. Gall y pwyllgor a'r Aelodau yn y Siambr weld y gwaith a wnaeth y Llywodraeth ar archwilio ei hyfywedd. Fodd bynnag, roeddem bob amser yn glir fod angen i unrhyw gymorth a ddarperid gan y trethdalwr fod yn gymesur a theg. Er gwaethaf yr amser a'r cymorth a ddarparwyd, ni allodd hyrwyddwyr y prosiect ddarparu cynnig a oedd yn bodloni meini prawf penodol Llywodraeth Cymru, ac aseswyd bod cynnig terfynol y prosiect yn creu risg uchel iawn, gyda'r rhan fwyaf o'r risg, i bob pwrpas, yn cael ei hysgwyddo gan y Llywodraeth, ac felly gan y trethdalwr.
Aseswyd hefyd fod manteision honedig y prosiect, yn enwedig y swyddi a gâi eu creu, yn ansicr ar y gorau. Oherwydd yr holl ffactorau hyn a'r ffaith, er gwaethaf blynyddoedd o ymdrech, fod hyrwyddwyr y prosiect wedi methu llunio cynnig cadarn gyda chydbwysedd risg a gwobr priodol ar gyfer y trethdalwr, daeth y Cabinet i'r casgliad na allai ddarparu cymorth pellach. Yn gyffredinol, nid oedd fersiwn derfynol y prosiect yn cynrychioli gwerth da am arian i drethdalwyr Cymru.
Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (Ann Jones) i’r Gadair.
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.
Now, we have accepted all of the committee's recommendations on the initial funding of the Circuit of Wales, and hopefully I can demonstrate to the Chair today that I take those recommendations very seriously indeed. I'll identify a number of the recommendations that the Members have already touched on, and hopefully I can offer some further assurance.
First of all, the Chair pointed to recommendation 6. I would happily provide figures from within Government that were requested by the Chair of the committee. In terms of recommendation 13, let me put on record that we are not open whatsoever to the presence of a casino in one of the most deprived parts of the United Kingdom. There are a number of project promoters, as I think the Member is aware, many discussions have taken place—they are commercial in confidence—and the Rocksteady proposal is not the only proposal that is being considered.
Recommendation 3: now, the provision of the contract accords with common commercial practice, though officials will report back to the Public Accounts Committee once legal advice has been provided and we are able to ascertain the position of the escrow account. We have already recognised that there are lessons to be learnt from elements of the Welsh Government's handling of the project, that is for sure, and we have put in place new processes to address those issues.
We accept the need to strengthen our controls to ensure value for public money. Actions must be proportionate to the risk involved, as well as be clearly documented. For example, we have already implemented changes to the business finance grant application process. Applicants must— must—now clarify whether Welsh Government funds are to be paid to related companies for goods or services. An exercise is also being undertaken to consider our controls to ensure value for money in more detail, and consideration will be made of the processes that can be put in place to ensure that complex projects demonstrate value for money where activities are procured. It must be noted that appropriate proportionate due diligence will be undertaken on any related companies identified at the application stage. And, with the launch of the new economy futures fund, all guidelines for officials have been refreshed, and the risk guidelines have been updated. We've also updated our internal guidance to ensure that all relevant information that might be considered novel, contentious or repercussive is included in ministerial advice provided as part of the approval process. We also accept that more work could have been undertaken at the appraisal stage of the project before including the purchase of FTR within the property development grant's eligible costs. In order that lessons are learned, the purchase of FTR will be developed into a case study for use at internal training sessions.
Now, guidance on risk weighting of projects of this nature is set out in Eurostat's manual on government deficit and debt, produced by Her Majesty's Treasury and the Office for National Statistics. Now, I recognise that there is merit in this guidance being made clearer. So, to that end, we will engage with others in the UK and with the statisticians to urge them to continue the process of clarifying and simplifying the classification rules. Formal decision making on classification clearly rests with the statisticians at the ONS and Eurostat. The ONS process is a process we have used successfully on a number of occasions, when Ministers have been minded to proceed with a particular course of action. While I believe that our internal processes are robust, I recognise that these processes could be improved. I also recognise that relationships between officials in Wales and their devolved and UK Government counterparts could potentially be better leveraged. I'm happy to commit to actions that will clarify those working relationships and processes.
Dirprwy Lywydd, Nick Ramsay warned during his contribution that corners risk being cut when the enthusiasm of politicians for certain projects becomes too intense. Some politicians remain strangely wedded to the proposal that was sadly rejected. But I would just have one final thing to say about major projects delivered in Wales: saving Cardiff Airport; the arrival of CAF; Aston Martin Lagonda; the Advanced Manufacturing Research Institute, with a contribution of £4 billion to the local economy; the £5 billion new rail franchise, which has been lauded across the UK; the compound semiconductor cluster; the International Convention Centre Wales—all of these are huge projects being delivered by this Welsh Government.
Nawr, rydym wedi derbyn holl argymhellion y pwyllgor ar gyllid cychwynnol Cylchffordd Cymru, a gobeithio y gallaf ddangos i'r Cadeirydd heddiw fy mod yn gyfan gwbl o ddifrif ynglŷn â'r argymhellion hynny. Fe nodaf nifer o'r argymhellion y mae'r Aelodau eisoes wedi'u crybwyll, a gobeithio y gallaf gynnig rhywfaint o sicrwydd pellach.
Yn gyntaf oll, tynnodd y Cadeirydd sylw at argymhelliad 6. Buaswn yn hapus i roi ffigurau gan y Llywodraeth y gwnaed cais amdanynt gan Gadeirydd y pwyllgor. O ran argymhelliad 13, gadewch imi ddweud ar goedd nad ydym yn agored o gwbl i bresenoldeb casino yn un o'r rhannau mwyaf difreintiedig o'r Deyrnas Unedig. Ceir nifer o hyrwyddwyr prosiectau, fel y mae'r Aelod yn gwybod, mae llawer o drafodaethau wedi digwydd—maent yn fasnachol gyfrinachol—ac nid cynnig Rocksteady yw'r unig gynnig sy'n cael ei ystyried.
Argymhelliad 3: nawr, mae darpariaeth y contract yn cyd-fynd ag arferion masnachol cyffredin, er y bydd swyddogion yn adrodd yn ôl i'r Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus wedi i gyngor cyfreithiol gael ei ddarparu a'n bod yn gallu canfod beth yw sefyllfa'r cyfrif ysgrow. Rydym eisoes wedi cydnabod bod gwersi i'w dysgu o elfennau'r ffordd yr ymdriniodd Llywodraeth Cymru â'r prosiect, mae hynny'n sicr, ac rydym wedi sefydlu prosesau newydd i fynd i'r afael â'r materion hynny.
Rydym yn derbyn yr angen i gryfhau ein mesurau rheoli er mwyn sicrhau gwerth am arian cyhoeddus. Rhaid i gamau gweithredu fod yn gymesur â'r risg sydd ynghlwm wrth y peth, yn ogystal â bod wedi'u dogfennu'n glir. Er enghraifft, rydym eisoes wedi gweithredu newidiadau i broses ymgeisio am y grant cyllid busnes. Rhaid i ymgeiswyr—mae'n rhaid iddynt bellach—egluro a yw cyllid Llywodraeth Cymru i gael ei dalu i gwmnïau cysylltiedig am nwyddau neu wasanaethau. Mae ymarfer ar y gweill hefyd i ystyried ein mesurau rheoli ar gyfer sicrhau gwerth am arian yn fwy manwl, a rhoddir ystyriaeth i'r prosesau y gellir eu rhoi ar waith er mwyn sicrhau bod prosiectau cymhleth yn dangos gwerth am arian lle y caiff gweithgareddau eu caffael. Rhaid nodi y bydd prosesau diwydrwydd dyladwy priodol yn cael eu cyflawni ar unrhyw gwmnïau cysylltiedig a nodwyd yn y cam ymgeisio. A chyda lansio cronfa dyfodol yr economi newydd, adnewyddwyd yr holl ganllawiau ar gyfer swyddogion, a diweddarwyd y canllawiau risg. Hefyd rydym wedi diweddaru ein canllawiau mewnol i sicrhau y cynhwysir yr holl wybodaeth berthnasol y gellid ei hystyried yn newydd, yn ddadleuol neu'n arwyddocaol mewn cyngor gweinidogol a ddarparwyd yn rhan o'r broses gymeradwyo. Rydym hefyd yn derbyn y gellid bod wedi gwneud rhagor o waith ar gam arfarnu'r prosiect cyn cynnwys pryniant FTR o fewn costau cymwys y grant datblygu eiddo. Er mwyn sicrhau bod gwersi'n cael eu dysgu, bydd pryniant FTR yn cael ei ddatblygu'n astudiaeth achos i'w defnyddio mewn sesiynau hyfforddi mewnol.
Nawr, nodir canllawiau ar bwysoli risg prosiectau o'r math hwn yn llawlyfr Eurostat ar ddiffygion a dyledion llywodraeth a gynhyrchir gan Drysorlys ei Mawrhydi a'r Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol. Nawr, rwy'n cydnabod y byddai'n werth i'r canllawiau hyn gael eu gwneud yn gliriach. Felly, i'r perwyl hwnnw, byddwn yn ymgysylltu ag eraill yn y DU a chyda'r ystadegwyr i bwyso arnynt i egluro a symleiddio'r rheolau dosbarthu. Mae'n eglur mai'r ystadegwyr yn y Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol ac Eurostat sy'n gwneud penderfyniadau ffurfiol ar ddosbarthiad. Mae proses y Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol yn un a ddefnyddiwyd gennym yn llwyddiannus ar sawl achlysur, pan fo Gweinidogion am fwrw ymlaen â ffordd benodol o weithredu. Er fy mod yn credu bod ein prosesau mewnol yn gadarn, rwy'n cydnabod y gellid gwella'r prosesau hyn. Rwyf hefyd yn cydnabod na wnaed y defnydd gorau o'r berthynas rhwng swyddogion yng Nghymru a'u cymheiriaid datganoledig ac yn Llywodraeth y DU. Rwy'n hapus i ymrwymo i gamau a fydd yn egluro'r berthynas waith a'r prosesau hynny'n well.
Ddirprwy Lywydd, rhybuddiodd Nick Ramsay yn ystod ei gyfraniad fod yna berygl i dorri corneli pan fo brwdfrydedd gwleidyddion ynglŷn â rhai prosiectau yn tyfu'n ormodol. Mae rhai gwleidyddion yn parhau i fod yn rhyfeddol o gefnogol i'r cynnig a gafodd ei wrthod yn anffodus. Ond os caf ddweud un peth i orffen am brosiectau mawr a ddarparwyd yng Nghymru: achub maes awyr Caerdydd; dyfodiad CAF; Aston Martin Lagonda; yr Athrofa Ymchwil Gweithgynhyrchu Uwch, gyda chyfraniad o £4 biliwn at yr economi leol; y fasnachfraint reilffordd newydd sy'n werth £5 biliwn, a ganmolwyd ledled y DU; y clwstwr o led-ddargludyddion cyfansawdd; Canolfan Gynadledda Ryngwladol Cymru—mae pob un o'r rhain yn brosiectau enfawr a gyflawnir gan y Llywodraeth hon.
Thank you. Can I call on Nick Ramsay to reply to the debate?
Diolch. A gaf fi alw ar Nick Ramsay i ymateb i'r ddadl?
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd, and can I thank everyone who has contributed in today's debate?
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ac a gaf fi ddiolch i bawb sydd wedi cyfrannu yn y ddadl heddiw?
If I can just refer to some of the contributions—firstly, Adam Price. Adam, you identified that there is a poor decision-making process at the heart of the Welsh Government, and that has been evidenced by what we've seen in the Public Accounts Committee looking at the evidence from the Circuit of Wales process and problems. And, yes, you're right: we have to get out of this mess. I think that's been the overriding message coming out of the committee. We are where we are, as is often said, and it's necessary now to look to the future and make sure that the problems that have happened in the past—the mistakes, if you want to call them that, that have happened in the past at many different levels—are put right so that, in the future, if this sort of project does come along again then the same mistakes are not repeated. You used the phrase, 'a landscape of broken dreams', and we mustn't forget at the end of all of this that there is an area of Wales that is very deprived, which is in need of regeneration, where the people look to the Welsh Government for hope for the future, for regeneration, for redevelopment, and they did look to this project as a possible way to lift themselves out of the problems that they are in and that they have been in for a very long time. And you cannot help but understand that those people do feel that an opportunity has been snatched away from them after there was a long build-up with them thinking that that project would go ahead.
Neil Hamilton, you described the Circuit of Wales as a visionary project and you spoke of a shocking catalogue of incompetence along the route that has been taken. As you said, potentially the Circuit of Wales was a major game changer and, yes, you're right, the committee couldn't get its head around why the project was eventually kicked into the long grass, why the plug was eventually pulled, as a result of an accounting device that is in the Treasury rule book. And as you said, of course, that accounting device wasn't a new addition to the Treasury rule book. It has been there from day one of this project, from very early on in this project. So, we couldn't understand—and I think at the end of our deliberations the committee couldn't understand—why it was that that accounting device hadn't been cited much earlier on as a reason not to proceed with the project, as a reason to go to the developers and to say, 'Look, this is something that the Welsh Government simply cannot afford.' We could not understand that. Due diligence, which was carried out, didn't then seem to feature at the end in the final decision-making process. So, it raises the question: 'Why did you do the due diligence?' Well, of course, you have to do the due diligence; that is all part of giving permission to a project. So, clearly something had gone wrong in that instance.
Mohammad Asghar, you referred to the 'inexplicable' decision-making process—and that is a term that appears throughout the Public Accounts Committee's report—which led to the waste of millions of pounds of taxpayers' money. And, yes, there did seem to be, from our point of view, a lack of ministerial oversight or, at the very least, a lack of a paper trail to determine whether or not there was a ministerial oversight, and that, I think, was one of the most concerning things of all. We couldn't actually work out whether—and it wasn't you, it wasn't the current Minister; it was the previous Minister who'd been involved in this. We couldn't determine whether or not she'd signed off the decision to fund the FTR part of the scheme. There was no paper trail. For a sum of £300,000, that cannot be allowed to persist in the future. Maybe there was a word-of-mouth agreement, but that cannot be enough. We have to be able, as a Public Accounts Committee, to show that, when projects and money are signed off, there is a legitimate reason for doing that. So, that was clearly a poor part of this process.
Can I welcome, finally, the Cabinet Secretary's comments? You made a number of very good points, and I'm pleased that you have listened to the issues that I've raised and the issues that other Members have raised and that the report has raised, and that you are looking to put some of these—all of these things—right. And let's be clear, some Members here have been very vocal in support of the Circuit of Wales for a long time and continue to be so. Some Members have not been keen on this project from very early on in its creation. That was not the purpose of the committee. We were not looking at this to say whether this is the right policy decision for the Welsh Government or not. We are there to say that, along the line, when decisions were taken and when funding was made available, that was done for the right reasons. I'm very sorry to say that the Public Accounts Committee could not say that value for money had been gained during the spending of money on this project at different avenues, and we seriously hope that, in future, the Welsh Government will learn the lessons of what's happened here. I know that the Cabinet Secretary said that those lessons had been learnt. We are not entirely convinced that they've been entirely learned yet. We do hope that, in the future, those lessons will be learnt and there won't be a future public accounts chairman standing here in the future, saying about a future project, 'Isn't it a shame that those lessons weren't learned?' We need to do this for the Circuit of Wales. Let's put this right and make sure that, in the future, these mistakes aren't made.
Os caf gyfeirio at rai o'r cyfraniadau—yn gyntaf, Adam Price. Adam, fe nodoch fod proses gwneud penderfyniadau Llywodraeth Cymru yn wael, a dangoswyd hynny gan yr hyn a welsom yn y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus wrth edrych ar y dystiolaeth o broses Cylchffordd Cymru a'r problemau. Ac rydych yn iawn: rhaid inni ddod allan o'r llanastr hwn. Credaf mai dyna'r brif neges a ddaw gan y pwyllgor. Rydym yn y sefyllfa rydym ynddi, fel sy'n cael ei ddweud yn aml, ac mae angen edrych yn awr i'r dyfodol a gwneud yn siŵr fod y problemau sydd wedi digwydd yn y gorffennol—y camgymeriadau, os ydych am eu galw'n hynny, sydd wedi digwydd yn y gorffennol ar sawl lefel wahanol—yn cael eu hunioni fel na chaiff yr un camgymeriadau eu hailadrodd os ceir prosiect o'r math hwn eto yn y dyfodol. Fe ddefnyddioch chi'r ymadrodd, 'tirwedd o freuddwydion briw', a rhaid inni beidio ag anghofio ar ddiwedd hyn i gyd fod yna ardal o Gymru sy'n ddifreintiedig iawn, ac angen ei hadfywio, lle mae pobl yn disgwyl i Lywodraeth Cymru roi gobaith ar gyfer y dyfodol, ar gyfer adfywio, ar gyfer ailddatblygu, ac roeddent yn disgwyl i'r prosiect hwn fod yn ffordd o godi eu hunain allan o'r problemau y maent ynddynt ac y maent wedi bod ynddynt ers amser hir iawn. Ac ni allwch ond deall bod y bobl hynny'n teimlo bod cyfle wedi'i gipio oddi wrthynt ar ôl y fath ddisgwyl hir pan oeddent yn meddwl y byddai'r prosiect hwnnw'n mynd rhagddo.
Neil Hamilton, fe ddisgrifioch chi brosiect Cylchffordd Cymru fel un ysbrydoledig ac fe sonioch chi am anghymhwysedd syfrdanol ar hyd y llwybr a gymerwyd. Fel y dywedoch, gallai Cylchffordd Cymru fod wedi newid pethau'n sylfaenol, ac rydych chi'n iawn, ni allai'r pwyllgor ddirnad pam y rhoddwyd y prosiect o'r neilltu yn y pen draw, pam y cafodd ei ddirwyn i ben yn y pen draw, o ganlyniad i ddyfais gyfrifyddu yn llyfr rheolau'r Trysorlys. Ac fel y dywedoch chi, wrth gwrs, nid oedd y ddyfais gyfrifyddu'n ychwanegiad newydd i lyfr rheolau'r Trysorlys. Roedd wedi bod yno o ddiwrnod cyntaf y prosiect hwn, o gamau cyntaf y prosiect hwn. Felly, ni allem ddeall—a chredaf ar ddiwedd ein trafodaethau na allai'r pwyllgor ddeall—pam na chrybwyllwyd y ddyfais gyfrifyddu yn llawer cynharach fel rheswm dros beidio â bwrw ymlaen gyda'r prosiect, fel rheswm dros fynd at y datblygwyr a dweud, 'Edrychwch, mae hyn yn rhywbeth na all Llywodraeth Cymru ei fforddio.' Ni allem ddeall hynny. Nid oedd diwydrwydd dyladwy, a gafodd ei gyflawni, i'w weld ar y diwedd yn rhan o'r broses benderfynu derfynol. Felly, mae'n peri i ni ofyn: 'Pam y gwnaethoch chi'r diwydrwydd dyladwy?' Wel, wrth gwrs, rhaid ichi wneud y diwydrwydd dyladwy; mae hynny i gyd yn rhan o roi caniatâd i brosiect. Felly, mae'n amlwg fod rhywbeth wedi mynd o'i le yn yr achos hwnnw.
Mohammad Asghar, fe gyfeirioch chi at broses wneud penderfyniadau 'anesboniadwy'—a dyna'r term sy'n ymddangos yn adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus drwyddo draw—a arweiniodd at wastraffu miliynau o bunnoedd o arian trethdalwyr. Ac roedd hi'n ymddangos, o'n safbwynt ni, fod yna ddiffyg goruchwyliaeth weinidogol neu ddiffyg trywydd papur fan lleiaf i benderfynu a oedd goruchwyliaeth weinidogol ai peidio ac yn fy marn i, dyna oedd un o'r pethau a berai fwyaf o bryder o'r cyfan. Ni allem weld a oedd—nid chi, nid y Gweinidog presennol; y Gweinidog blaenorol a oedd ynghlwm wrth hyn. Ni allem benderfynu a oedd hi wedi cymeradwyo'r penderfyniad i ariannu rhan FTR y cynllun ai peidio. Ni chafwyd trywydd papur. Am swm o £300,000, ni ellir caniatáu i hynny ddigwydd yn y dyfodol. Efallai fod yna gytundeb ar lafar, ond ni all hynny fod yn ddigon. Fel Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus, rhaid inni allu dangos, pan fydd prosiectau ac arian yn cael eu cymeradwyo, fod yna reswm dilys dros wneud hynny. Felly, roedd hynny'n amlwg yn rhan wael o'r broses hon.
Yn olaf, a gaf fi groesawu sylwadau Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet? Gwnaethoch nifer o bwyntiau da iawn, ac rwy'n falch eich bod wedi gwrando ar y materion a nodais a'r materion y mae Aelodau eraill wedi'u crybwyll ac a nodwyd gan yr adroddiad, a'ch bod yn bwriadu unioni rhai o'r rhain—yr holl bethau hyn. A gadewch i ni fod yn glir, mae rhai o'r Aelodau yma wedi bod yn llafar iawn eu cefnogaeth i Cylchffordd Cymru ers amser maith ac yn parhau i fod. Nid yw rhai Aelodau wedi bod yn hoff o'r prosiect o gam cynnar iawn. Nid dyna oedd diben y pwyllgor. Nid oeddem yn edrych ar hyn er mwyn dweud a oedd hwn yn benderfyniad polisi cywir gan Lywodraeth Cymru ai peidio. Rydym yno i ddweud, ar hyd y ffordd, wrth wneud penderfyniadau a phan gâi arian ei ryddhau, fod hynny wedi'i wneud am y rhesymau cywir. Mae'n ddrwg iawn gennyf ddweud na allai'r Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus ddweud bod gwerth am arian wedi'i gyflawni wrth wario arian ar y prosiect hwn mewn ffyrdd gwahanol, ac rydym yn gobeithio o ddifrif, yn y dyfodol, y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru'n dysgu gwersi o'r hyn sydd wedi digwydd yma. Gwn fod Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet wedi dweud bod y gwersi hynny wedi'u dysgu. Nid ydym yn gwbl argyhoeddedig eu bod wedi'u dysgu'n gyfan gwbl eto. Yn y dyfodol, rydym yn gobeithio y bydd y gwersi wedi'u dysgu ac na fydd cadeirydd cyfrifon cyhoeddus yn sefyll yma yn y dyfodol, yn dweud am brosiect yn y dyfodol, 'Onid yw'n drueni na ddysgwyd y gwersi hyn?' Mae angen inni wneud hyn ar gyfer Cylchffordd Cymru. Gadewch i ni unioni hyn a gwneud yn siŵr, yn y dyfodol, nad yw'r camgymeriadau hyn yn cael eu gwneud.
The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Y cynnig yw nodi adroddiad y pwyllgor. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Nac oes. Felly, derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Item 7 on our agenda this afternoon is the debate on the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee's report on the use of antipsychotic medication in care homes. I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion—Dai Lloyd.
Eitem 7 ar yr agenda y prynhawn yma yw'r ddadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Chwaraeon ar y defnydd o feddyginiaeth wrthseicotig mewn cartrefi gofal. Galwaf ar Gadeirydd y pwyllgor i wneud y cynnig—Dai Lloyd.
Cynnig NDM6765 Dai Lloyd
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:
Yn nodi adroddiad y Pwyllgor Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Chwaraeon ar y defnydd o feddyginiaeth wrthseicotig mewn cartrefi gofal, a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 17 Mai 2018.
Motion NDM6765 Dai Lloyd
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
Notes the report of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee on use of antipsychotic medication in care homes, which was laid in the Table Office on 17 May 2018.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. Mae’n bleser mawr gennyf i agor y ddadl yma heddiw ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Chwaraeon ar y defnydd o feddyginiaeth wrthseicotig mewn cartrefi gofal. Penderfynwyd cynnal yr ymchwiliad hwn mewn ymateb i’r pryderon cynyddol ynghylch y defnydd amhriodol o feddyginiaeth wrthseicotig mewn lleoliadau cartrefi gofal i reoli ymddygiad heriol pobl sydd â dementia. Fel y gwyddom i gyd, caiff meddyginiaeth wrthseicotig ei defnyddio fel arfer wrth drin cyflyrau iechyd meddwl megis sgitsoffrenia, a dim ond un feddyginiaeth, sef risperidone, mewn rhai amgylchiadau, sy’n drwyddedig yn y Deyrnas Unedig i drin symptomau ymddygiadol a seicolegol dementia.
Fodd bynnag, yn ystod ein gwaith craffu ar strategaeth ddrafft Llywodraeth Cymru ar ddementia, dywedwyd wrthym fod y defnydd o feddyginiaeth wrthseicotig yn peri pryder mawr i bobl sydd â dementia a’u teuluoedd. Mae meddyginiaeth wrthseicotig yn gysylltiedig â risg gynyddol o ddigwyddiadau niweidiol serebro-fasgwlaidd a mwy o farwolaethau pan gaiff ei defnyddio gyda phobl sydd â dementia. Mae astudiaethau’n amcangyfrif bod o leiaf 1,800 o farwolaethau ychwanegol bob blwyddyn ym Mhrydain ymhlith pobl sydd â dementia o ganlyniad iddynt gymryd meddyginiaeth wrthseicotig a bod y tebygolrwydd o farw cyn pryd yn cynyddu os bydd pobl yn cymryd y cyffuriau hyn am fisoedd neu flynyddoedd yn hytrach nag am wythnosau. Felly, mae’n bwysig mai dim ond lle y bo’n hollol angenrheidiol y defnyddir meddyginiaeth wrthseicotig, y caiff ei hadolygu’n rheolaidd, ac mai’r dosau lleiaf posibl yn unig a roddir i’r claf.
Yn ystod mis Mawrth a mis Ebrill 2017, cynhaliwyd ymgynghoriad cyhoeddus gennym. Cawsom 18 o ymatebion ysgrifenedig a oedd yn cynrychioli ystod o sefydliadau gofal iechyd a grwpiau proffesiynol. At hynny, clywsom dystiolaeth lafar gan nifer o dystion. Hoffwn ddiolch i’r holl bobl a gyfrannodd at ein hymchwiliad, ac rwy’n arbennig o ddiolchgar i’r bobl y mae defnyddio meddyginiaeth wrthseicotig wedi effeithio arnynt am rannu eu profiadau â ni. Mae ein hadroddiad yn cynnwys 11 o argymhellion i Lywodraeth Cymru yn seiliedig ar y dystiolaeth a gawsom. A diolch i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet am ei ymateb a’i lythyr dilynol yn y dyddiau diwethaf yma a oedd yn cynnwys rhagor o fanylion am ei ymateb i rai argymhellion.
Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. I’m very pleased to open this debate today on the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee’s report on the use of antipsychotic medication in care homes. We decided to carry out this inquiry in response to the increasing concerns about the inappropriate use of antipsychotics in care home settings to manage challenging behaviour of people with dementia. As we all know, antipsychotics are usually used in the treatment of mental health conditions such as schizophrenia, and only one, risperidone, in some circumstances, is licensed in the United Kingdom to treat the behavioural and psychological symptoms of dementia.
However, during our scrutiny of the Welsh Government’s draft dementia strategy, we were told that the use of antipsychotics is of great concern to people with dementia and their families. Antipsychotics are associated with an increased risk of cerebrovascular adverse events and greater mortality when used in people with dementia. Studies estimate that there are at least 1,800 extra deaths each year among people with dementia in the UK as a result of their taking antipsychotics, and that the likelihood of premature death increases if people take these drugs for months or years rather than weeks. It is therefore vital that antipsychotics are only used where absolutely necessary, that usage is reviewed regularly, and that only the lowest doses are given to the patient.
During March and April 2017 we held a public consultation and we received 18 written responses, representing a range of healthcare organisations and professional groups. In addition, we heard oral evidence from a number of witnesses. I would like to thank everyone who contributed to our inquiry, and I’m particularly grateful to the people who had been affected by the use of antipsychotic medication for sharing their experiences with us. Our report contains 11 recommendations to the Welsh Government, based on the evidence we received, and I thank the Cabinet Secretary for his response and his subsequent letter in these past few days, in which he provided further details about his response to some recommendations.
Our first recommendation relates to data collection. We were told that the lack of data and records means there is great difficulty in determining a national picture of prevalence and patterns of prescribing antipsychotic medications within care homes. We know that work is ongoing with the NHS Wales Informatics Service and the NHS Wales Shared Services Partnership to make improvements and collect new data, but there will still be limitations with the new data being collected and gaps in our understanding of the number of older people in care homes being inappropriately prescribed antipsychotic medication. We therefore recommended that the Welsh Government should ensure that, within 12 months, all health boards are collecting and publishing standardised data on the use of antipsychotic medication in care homes and report back to this committee on progress at the end of that 12-month period. This recommendation was only accepted in principle.
In passing, obviously, out of the 11 recommendations the committee made, six are accepted in principle, four are accepted, and one is rejected, this recommendation about data collection being accepted in principle. The Cabinet Secretary, in his response, states that there are significant limitations with routinely collected prescribing data, which, he says,
‘means it is not possible to readily attribute prescriptions to residents in care homes’.
However, we heard in evidence that it is already happening in some health boards, which raises the question: if some can do it, why not all? The Cabinet Secretary has committed to convene a group of relevant experts to examine the usefulness of various data sources and advise on how such data can be used to reduce prescribing. This seems to suggest that they will examine existing data sources and advise on how such data can be used to reduce prescribing, which does not imply that the committee’s recommendation will be accepted at all. I would appreciate the Cabinet Secretary’s clarification of this point, along with further information on the remit and timescale for this expert group.
Mae ein hargymhelliad cyntaf yn ymwneud â chasglu data. Dywedwyd wrthym fod y diffyg data a chofnodion yn golygu bod anhawster mawr wrth bennu darlun cenedlaethol o nifer yr achosion a phatrymau rhagnodi meddyginiaethau gwrthseicotig mewn cartrefi gofal. Rydym yn gwybod bod gwaith yn mynd rhagddo gyda Gwasanaeth Gwybodeg GIG Cymru a Phartneriaeth Cydwasanaethau GIG Cymru i wneud gwelliannau a chasglu data newydd, ond bydd yn dal i fod cyfyngiadau gyda'r data newydd a gesglir a bylchau yn ein dealltwriaeth o nifer y bobl hŷn mewn cartrefi gofal sy'n cael meddyginiaeth wrthseicotig amhriodol ar bresgripsiwn. Felly, rydym yn argymell y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru sicrhau, o fewn 12 mis, fod pob bwrdd iechyd yn casglu a chyhoeddi data safonol ar y defnydd o feddyginiaeth wrthseicotig mewn cartrefi gofal ac yn adrodd yn ôl i'r pwyllgor hwn ar y cynnydd ar ddiwedd y cyfnod hwnnw o 12 mis. Derbyniwyd yr argymhelliad hwn mewn egwyddor yn unig.
Wrth basio, yn amlwg, o'r 11 o argymhellion a wnaeth y pwyllgor, cafodd chwech eu derbyn mewn egwyddor, cafodd pedwar eu derbyn, a chafodd un ei wrthod, a chafodd yr argymhelliad hwn ynglŷn â chasglu data ei dderbyn mewn egwyddor. Mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, yn ei ymateb, yn nodi bod cyfyngiadau sylweddol gyda data rhagnodi a gesglir fel mater o drefn, sy'n golygu, mae'n dweud,
'nad yw’n bosibl priodoli presgripsiynau’n rhwydd i breswylwyr mewn cartrefi gofal'.
Fodd bynnag, clywsom mewn tystiolaeth ei fod eisoes yn digwydd mewn rhai byrddau iechyd, sy'n arwain at y cwestiwn: os gall rhai ei wneud, pam na all pob un ei wneud? Mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet wedi ymrwymo i gynnull grŵp o arbenigwyr perthnasol i edrych ar ddefnyddioldeb ffynonellau data amrywiol a chynghori ar sut y gellir defnyddio data o'r fath i leihau'r arfer o ragnodi. Ymddengys bod hyn yn awgrymu y byddant yn archwilio ffynonellau data presennol ac yn cynghori ar sut y gellir defnyddio data o'r fath i leihau'r arfer o ragnodi, ac nid yw hynny'n rhoi'r argraff y bydd argymhelliad y pwyllgor yn cael ei dderbyn o gwbl. Buaswn yn gwerthfawrogi eglurhad gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ar y pwynt hwn, ynghyd â rhagor o wybodaeth am y cylch gorchwyl a'r amserlen ar gyfer y grŵp arbenigol hwn.
Recommendation 2 relates to compliance with NICE guidelines. The NICE guidelines on dementia advise against the use of any antipsychotics for non-cognitive symptoms or challenging behaviour of dementia unless the person is severely distressed or there is an immediate risk of harm to them or others. However, we were told that antipsychotics are being used as a default position in care homes and some hospital wards when people with dementia are difficult to deal with. We were also told that current practice is not fully compliant with the NICE guidelines. We agree with witnesses that it is vital that there is full compliance with NICE clinical guidelines. We have therefore called on the Welsh Government to ensure that all health boards are fully compliant with NICE guidelines on dementia and report back to this committee on rates of compliance within 12 months. It is therefore disappointing that, while sharing the committee’s concerns about the use of antipsychotic medicines for the management of behavioural and psychological symptoms in dementia when such use is not in accordance with guidance issued by NICE, the Cabinet Secretary has only accepted in principle this recommendation, which again suggests that it will not be fully implemented.
Our third recommendation relates to person-centred care. We were told that increasingly, antipsychotic medication is being routinely administered in response to challenging behaviour, in place of staff working to identify the root cause of that behaviour. A person living with dementia presenting challenging behaviour often has an unmet need that they may be unable to communicate, and if that need can be identified, the situation can be greatly improved without antipsychotic medication. It is therefore important to look at the person as a whole to understand what is causing a particular behaviour. The committee felt very strongly about the need to look at the person as a whole in order to understand what may be causing a particular behaviour, and we heard lots of examples of good practice checklists that could be used by staff in care homes to identify the possible causes behind an individual’s behaviour. One such tool is the adverse drug reaction profile—ADRe—a succinct, convenient tool that asks nurses to systematically check their patients for signs and symptoms relating to the undesirable effects of medicines and share this information with prescribers and pharmacists reviewing medication regimes.
We therefore recommended that the Welsh Government should ensure that every person with dementia presenting challenging behaviour receives a comprehensive person-centred care assessment of their needs. It should work with relevant health professionals to develop a standardised checklist tool like the one outlined, to be used by health and social care staff to identify and address or rule out possible causes of challenging behaviour, including unmet physical or emotional needs, and include a requirement for consultation with the individual and their carer or family. The checklist should be available within six months and must record the action taken to demonstrate that all other options have been considered before considering the use of antipsychotics as prescribed for people with dementia. Again, this recommendation has been accepted in principle. The Cabinet Secretary’s response states that as part of the roll-out of the 'Good Work' training and education framework, attention has already started to be given to the development of comprehensive assessment and care planning to support the person-centred approach. However, evidence to the committee suggested that awareness of the 'Good Work' framework was low and it has yet to be applied by many care homes.
In his follow-up letter this week, the Cabinet Secretary reinforces his support for the broad approach of tailoring the care a person with dementia receives to a person-centred assessment of their needs. He also states that he believes that the use of a single standardised tool cannot accurately reflect every person’s individual needs and circumstances, and commits to working with stakeholders to develop a common understanding of principles. I do understand the Cabinet Secretary’s point about not wanting to endorse one particular approach or tool, so would welcome more detail about how he plans to work with stakeholders, and what this work will look like.
Despite six accepted in principle out of 11 recommendations, I do welcome the Cabinet Secretary's acceptance of recommendation 7 and his assurance that an integral part of the role of the allied health professional dementia consultant will be to improve access to allied health professionals for care home residents. Similarly, the acceptance of recommendation 8 and the recognition of the key role of speech and language therapists in improving outcomes for people with dementia is also to be greatly welcomed.
However, overall, I am very disappointed with the Cabinet Secretary’s response. While it appears that the majority of our recommendations have been accepted or accepted in principle, the accompanying narrative suggests otherwise, with a lack of real commitment and clear timescales for tackling this issue as a priority.
We believe, as a committee, significant cultural and systemic changes are needed to ensure antipsychotic medications are prescribed appropriately and not as a first option. Unnecessarily medicating vulnerable people in care is a profound human rights issue, which must be addressed. We therefore urge the Welsh Government to take action on the evidence we have gathered and the recommendations we have made to drive progress and deliver the solutions needed to protect some of our most vulnerable citizens. Diolch yn fawr.
Mae argymhelliad 2 yn ymwneud â chydymffurfio â chanllawiau NICE. Mae'r canllawiau NICE ar ddementia yn cynghori yn erbyn defnyddio unrhyw feddyginiaeth wrthseicotig ar gyfer symptomau nad ydynt yn rhai gwybyddol neu ymddygiad heriol dementia oni bai bod yr unigolyn mewn trallod difrifol neu fod risg uniongyrchol o niwed iddynt hwy neu i eraill. Fodd bynnag, dywedwyd wrthym y defnyddir meddyginiaeth wrthseicotig fel mesur diofyn mewn cartrefi gofal a rhai wardiau ysbyty pan fydd pobl â dementia yn anodd eu trin. Dywedwyd wrthym hefyd nad yw ymarfer presennol yn cydymffurfio'n llawn â'r canllawiau NICE. Rydym yn cytuno â thystion ei bod yn hanfodol cael cydymffurfiaeth lawn â chanllawiau clinigol NICE. Felly, rydym wedi galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau bod pob bwrdd iechyd yn cydymffurfio'n llawn â chanllawiau NICE ar ddementia ac yn adrodd yn ôl i'r pwyllgor hwn ynglŷn â chyfraddau cydymffurfio o fewn 12 mis. Felly, er ei fod yn rhannu pryderon y pwyllgor ynglŷn â'r defnydd o feddyginiaethau gwrthseicotig ar gyfer rheoli symptomau ymddygiadol a seicolegol dementia pan nad yw defnydd o'r fath yn cydymffurfio â chanllawiau a gyhoeddwyd gan NICE, mae'n siomedig nad yw Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ond wedi derbyn yr argymhelliad hwn mewn egwyddor, sydd unwaith eto'n awgrymu na chaiff ei weithredu'n llawn.
Mae ein trydydd argymhelliad yn ymwneud â gofal sy'n canolbwyntio ar yr unigolyn. Dywedwyd wrthym fod meddyginiaeth wrthseicotig yn cael ei defnyddio fwyfwy fel mater o drefn mewn ymateb i ymddygiad heriol, yn lle bod staff yn gweithio i ganfod yr hyn sydd wrth wraidd yr ymddygiad hwnnw. Yn aml, bydd gan unigolyn sy'n byw gyda dementia sy'n arddangos ymddygiad heriol angen nas diwallwyd nad yw'n gallu ei gyfathrebu o bosibl, ac os gellir canfod yr angen, gellir gwella'r sefyllfa'n fawr heb feddyginiaeth wrthseicotig. Felly, mae'n bwysig edrych ar yr unigolyn cyfan i ddeall beth sy'n achosi ymddygiad penodol. Teimlai'r pwyllgor yn gryf iawn ynglŷn â'r angen i edrych ar yr unigolyn cyfan er mwyn deall beth allai fod yn achosi ymddygiad penodol, a chlywsom lawer o enghreifftiau o restrau gwirio arfer da y gellid eu defnyddio gan staff mewn cartrefi gofal i nodi achosion posibl dros ymddygiad yr unigolyn. Un adnodd o'r fath yw'r proffil adwaith niweidiol i gyffuriau—ADRe—offeryn cyfleus a chryno sy'n gofyn i nyrsys archwilio eu cleifion yn systematig am arwyddion a symptomau'n ymwneud ag effeithiau annymunol meddyginiaethau a rhannu'r wybodaeth gyda rhai sy'n rhagnodi a systemau adolygu meddyginiaethau fferyllwyr.
Felly rydym yn argymell y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru sicrhau bod pawb sydd â dementia sy'n arddangos ymddygiad heriol yn cael asesiad gofal cyfansawdd o anghenion yr unigolyn. Dylai weithio gyda gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol perthnasol i ddatblygu offeryn rhestr wirio safonol fel yr un a amlinellwyd, i'w ddefnyddio gan staff iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol i nodi a thrin, neu ddiystyru achosion posibl o ymddygiad heriol, gan gynnwys anghenion corfforol neu emosiynol heb eu diwallu, a chynnwys gofyniad i ymgynghori â'r unigolyn a'u gofalwyr neu eu teulu. Dylai'r rhestr wirio fod ar gael o fewn chwe mis a rhaid iddi gofnodi'r camau a gymerwyd i ddangos bod pob opsiwn arall wedi'u hystyried cyn ystyried y defnydd o feddyginiaeth wrthseicotig fel y'u rhagnodir ar gyfer pobl â dementia. Unwaith eto, derbyniwyd yr argymhelliad hwn mewn egwyddor. Mae ymateb Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn datgan eu bod wedi dechrau rhoi sylw eisoes fel rhan o'r broses o gyflwyno fframwaith addysg a hyfforddiant 'Gwaith Da' i ddatblygu asesiad cynhwysfawr a chynlluniau gofal i gefnogi'r dull sy'n canolbwyntio ar yr unigolyn. Fodd bynnag, roedd tystiolaeth i'r pwyllgor yn awgrymu bod lefel yr ymwybyddiaeth o'r fframwaith 'Gwaith Da' yn isel ac nid yw eto'n cael ei ddefnyddio gan lawer o gartrefi gofal.
Yn ei lythyr dilynol yr wythnos hon, mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn atgyfnerthu ei gefnogaeth i'r dull bras o deilwra'r gofal y mae person â dementia yn ei gael yn ôl asesiad sy'n canolbwyntio ar yr unigolyn o'u hanghenion. Dywed hefyd ei fod yn credu na all y defnydd o un offeryn safonol adlewyrchu'n gywir beth yw anghenion ac amgylchiadau pob unigolyn, ac mae'n ymrwymo i weithio gyda rhanddeiliaid ar ddatblygu dealltwriaeth gyffredin o egwyddorion. Rwy'n deall pwynt Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ynglŷn â'i amharodrwydd i gymeradwyo un dull gweithredu neu offeryn penodol, felly buaswn yn croesawu mwy o fanylion ynglŷn â sut y mae'n bwriadu gweithio gyda rhanddeiliaid, a sut beth fydd y gwaith hwn.
Er bod chwech allan o 11 o argymhellion wedi'u derbyn mewn egwyddor, rwy'n croesawu'r ffaith bod Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet wedi derbyn argymhelliad 7 a'i sicrwydd mai un rhan annatod o rôl yr ymgynghorydd dementia proffesiynol perthynol i iechyd fydd gwella mynediad at weithwyr proffesiynol perthynol i iechyd ar gyfer preswylwyr cartrefi gofal. Yn yr un modd, mae derbyniad argymhelliad 8 a chydnabod rôl allweddol therapyddion lleferydd ac iaith yn gwella canlyniadau i bobl â dementia i'w groesawu'n fawr hefyd.
Fodd bynnag, yn gyffredinol, rwy'n siomedig iawn ynglŷn ag ymateb Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Er ei bod yn ymddangos bod y rhan fwyaf o'n hargymhellion wedi cael eu derbyn neu eu derbyn mewn egwyddor, mae'r naratif cysylltiedig yn awgrymu fel arall, gyda diffyg ymrwymiad gwirioneddol ac amserlenni clir ar gyfer mynd i'r afael â'r mater fel blaenoriaeth.
Fel pwyllgor, credwn fod angen newidiadau diwylliannol a systemig sylweddol i sicrhau bod meddyginiaethau gwrthseicotig yn cael eu rhagnodi'n briodol ac nid fel opsiwn cyntaf. Mae rhoi meddyginiaeth ddiangen i bobl agored i niwed mewn gofal yn fater hawliau dynol sylfaenol, ac mae'n rhaid mynd i'r afael ag ef. Felly, rydym yn annog Llywodraeth Cymru i weithredu ar sail y dystiolaeth a gasglwyd gennym a'r argymhellion a wnaethom i ysgogi cynnydd a sicrhau'r atebion sydd eu hangen i ddiogelu rhai o'n dinasyddion mwyaf agored i niwed. Diolch yn fawr.
I'm grateful to all the witnesses who came to give evidence to the committee. Some of the personal stories that we heard were absolutely harrowing and have been an eye-opener for a great many of us.
Cabinet Secretary, I'm sure that you will agree with me that it's completely unacceptable that powerful medication is being used inappropriately or not being routinely reviewed—medications that subdue mind, body and spirit. Yet, on the other hand, we all say that we want to cleave to the principles of dignity and respect, which is why I found the Welsh Government's response to the committee's report utterly disheartening, because I think that our committee report really identified the fact that there is a vulnerable group of people who are not being treated with dignity and respect. People matter, all people matter, and the most vulnerable and the most defenceless in our society matter the most, as their voices are often the most marginalised and least heard, and some of the quietest voices are in residential care homes.
I found the rejection of recommendation 9 simply dismissive of a vulnerable group of people. Here we're asking for a method of assessing the appropriate skills mix required for care home staff and asking for you, Welsh Government, to produce guidance on this to ensure that there are safe and appropriate staffing levels in every care home. This morning, in our health and social care committee, you and your colleague the Minister for social care were there talking to us about how every person deserves a holistic treatment around them, that we want to look at the person in the entire narrative of their life, that we want to ensure that they're in the right place, having the right treatment, at the right time. Yet, dismissing this recommendation that people in care homes also have that right I find deeply concerning.
I find it deeply concerning because one of the reasons that you put forward is that there's already a gazillion regulations in place, talking about the types of staff deployed and the numbers of staff deployed, therefore you don't consider that an additional mechanism is required. Yet, we have Care Inspectorate Wales themselves saying that they are worried about care homes that carry the historical elderly mentally infirm, or dementia registration classification without actually having staff who have specialist training. Suzy.
Rwy'n ddiolchgar i'r holl dystion a ddaeth i roi tystiolaeth i'r pwyllgor. Mae rhai o'r straeon personol a glywsom yn gwbl ddirdynnol ac wedi bod yn agoriad llygad mawr i lawer ohonom.
Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, rwy'n siŵr y byddwch yn cytuno â mi ei bod yn gwbl annerbyniol fod meddyginiaeth bwerus yn cael ei defnyddio'n amhriodol neu heb ei hadolygu fel mater o drefn—meddyginiaethau sy'n llethu'r meddwl, y corff a'r ysbryd. Eto, ar y llaw arall, mae pawb ohonom yn dweud ein bod am lynu wrth egwyddorion urddas a pharch, a dyna pam y teimlwn fod ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru i adroddiad y pwyllgor yn hollol dorcalonnus, oherwydd credaf fod adroddiad ein pwyllgor wedi nodi'n glir y ffaith bod yna grŵp o bobl sy'n agored i niwed nad ydynt yn cael eu trin ag urddas a pharch. Mae pobl yn bwysig, mae pob unigolyn yn bwysig, a'r bobl fwyaf diamddiffyn yn ein cymdeithas a'r mwyaf agored i niwed sydd fwyaf pwysig, gan mai eu lleisiau hwy a ymyleiddiwyd fwyaf ac a glywir leiaf yn aml, ac mae rhai o'r lleisiau distawaf mewn cartrefi gofal preswyl.
Roeddwn yn teimlo bod gwrthod argymhelliad 9 yn diystyru grŵp o bobl agored i niwed. Yma rydym yn gofyn am ddull o asesu'r cymysgedd sgiliau priodol sydd ei angen ar gyfer staff gofal cartref ac yn gofyn i chi, Lywodraeth Cymru, gynhyrchu canllawiau ar hyn i sicrhau bod yna lefelau staffio diogel a phriodol ym mhob cartref gofal. Y bore yma, yn ein pwyllgor iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, roeddech chi a'ch cyd-Aelod y Gweinidog gofal cymdeithasol yno'n sôn wrthym ynglŷn â sut y mae pob unigolyn yn haeddu triniaeth holistaidd, ein bod am edrych ar yr unigolyn yn naratif cyfan eu bywydau, ein bod am sicrhau eu bod yn y lle iawn, yn cael y driniaeth iawn, ar yr adeg iawn. Eto i gyd, mae'r ffaith eich bod yn gwrthod yr argymhelliad fod gan bobl mewn cartrefi gofal yr hawl honno hefyd yn peri pryder mawr i mi.
Rwy'n teimlo ei fod yn destun pryder mawr am mai un o'r rhesymau a roddwyd gennych oedd bod llu o reoliadau ar waith yn barod yn sôn am y mathau o staff a ddefnyddir a nifer y staff a ddefnyddir, felly nid ydych yn ystyried bod angen mecanwaith ychwanegol. Eto i gyd, mae gennym Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru eu hunain yn dweud eu bod yn poeni am gartrefi gofal sydd â'r dosbarthiad cofrestru henoed eiddil eu meddwl, neu ddementia heb fod ganddynt staff sydd wedi cael hyfforddiant arbenigol mewn gwirionedd. Suzy.
Thank you for taking the intervention. Do you wonder whether the Cabinet Secretary's reluctance to sign up to this particular recommendation may be because they will be removing permanent nursing in residential care homes and that nurses won't be there for 24 hours, as some of them are at the moment?
Diolch i chi am dderbyn yr ymyriad. A ydych yn meddwl tybed ai'r rheswm dros amharodrwydd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet i ymrwymo i'r argymhelliad penodol hwn yw y byddant yn dileu nyrsio parhaol mewn cartrefi gofal preswyl ac na fydd nyrsys yno am 24 awr, fel y mae rhai ohonynt ar hyn o bryd?
That could be a factor. But I know, for example, as a person who has relatives who have struggled with dementia, I would be appalled if I thought that I was going to put a loved one into a home that had a classification that said, 'This is a care home that is able to deal holistically and in the round with a person who has dementia', and I would believe that, and I'd go, 'Oh great, my loved one is in a safe place'—not according to the Care Inspectorate Wales.
Social Care Wales went on to say that it's vital that care homes are staffed by people who are sufficiently skilled to provide a person-sensitive and preventative approach to care. I absolutely think you cannot just turn around and say, 'Reccomendation 9 is unnecessary', because some of the watchdogs that you put in place to ensure that we're doing the right thing are saying we're not doing the right thing. Surely, Welsh Government, it is your absolute duty to get to grips with that and to make sure that the care homes are appropriately assessed to the right standards so that people know where they should be able to feel safe to put people that they love.
Other recommendations that were only accepted in principle—also puzzling. I've got a few, but I'm actually going to talk about recommendation 2.
Recommendation 2 of the committee report says that we raise our concern that not all health boards are fully compliant with the NICE guidelines that advise against the use of any antipsychotics for non-cognitive symptoms of challenging behaviour of dementia. Now, you say in your response that you share our concerns about the use of antipsychotic medicines. You also say, and I'm quoting:
'However it is not straightforward to determine whether a medicine is being prescribed in accordance with NICE’s guidance.'
Well, okay, I'm a layman—why not? This is a profession. It is full of professionals. They have to obey the rules. Why can't we ensure that a vulnerable person who may not have a voice, who is not being listened to, who is shut up in a care home, who may not have an advocate, who may not have a family member who is championing their cause, who will not be able to say, 'Am I on the right stuff?', who has lost that voice, or whose voice is so tiny we don't hear it—? Why, oh why, is it not possible for Welsh Government and for the health boards to know whether or not all of those people are being treated appropriately according to NICE guidelines that all the specialists have put together?
There are other recommendations—I realise I'm out of time, Deputy Presiding Officer—but I'm really worried, because I think that 'accept in principle' means, 'It wasn't thought of here, we're not really prepared to do it, but we'll just palm you off a little bit and say, "Yes, we'll have a look at it".' We can't not have a look at it. This is a really good report, and these people deserve not to have inappropriate medication given to them when they don't need it.
Gallai hynny fod yn ffactor. Ond gwn, er enghraifft, fel rhywun sydd â pherthnasau sydd wedi dioddef dementia, y buaswn yn arswydo pe bawn yn meddwl fy mod yn mynd i roi rhywun sy'n annwyl i mi mewn cartref gyda dosbarthiad sy'n dweud, 'Dyma gartref gofal sy'n gallu ymdrin mewn modd cyfannol a chyflawn ag unigolion sydd â dementia', a buaswn yn credu hynny, ac yn dweud, 'O gwych, mae'r un sy'n annwyl i mi mewn lle diogel'—nid yn ôl Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru.
Aeth Gofal Cymdeithasol Cymru ymlaen i ddweud ei bod yn hanfodol fod cartrefi gofal yn cael eu staffio gan bobl sy'n meddu ar sgiliau digonol i ddarparu dull o ofalu ataliol sy'n sensitif i anghenion yr unigolyn. Rwy'n credu'n gryf na allwch ddweud, 'Mae argymhelliad 9 yn ddiangen', oherwydd mae rhai o'r cyrff gwarchod a roddwyd ar waith gennych i sicrhau ein bod yn gwneud y peth iawn yn dweud nad ydym yn gwneud y peth iawn. Yn sicr, eich dyletswydd absoliwt chi, Lywodraeth Cymru, yw mynd i'r afael â hynny a gwneud yn siŵr fod cartrefi gofal wedi eu hasesu'n briodol yn ôl y safonau cywir fel bod pobl yn gwybod lle y dylent allu teimlo'n ddiogel i roi pobl y maent yn eu caru.
Argymhellion eraill a dderbyniwyd mewn egwyddor yn unig—mae'r rhain yn peri dryswch hefyd. Mae gennyf rai, ond rwy'n mynd i sôn am argymhelliad 2.
Mae argymhelliad 2 o adroddiad y pwyllgor yn dweud ein bod yn bryderus nad yw pob bwrdd iechyd yn cydymffurfio'n llawn â'r canllawiau NICE sy'n cynghori yn erbyn defnyddio unrhyw feddyginiaeth wrthseicotig ar gyfer symptomau nad ydynt yn rhai gwybyddol ar gyfer ymddygiad heriol oherwydd dementia. Nawr, rydych yn dweud yn eich ymateb eich bod yn rhannu ein pryderon ynghylch y defnydd o feddyginiaethau gwrthseicotig. Rydych yn dweud hefyd, ac rwy'n dyfynnu:
'Fodd bynnag, nid mater hawdd yw penderfynu a yw meddyginiaeth yn cael ei rhagnodi yn unol â chanllawiau NICE.'
Wel, iawn, lleygwr wyf fi—pam nad yw'n fater hawdd? Proffesiwn yw hwn. Mae'n llawn o weithwyr proffesiynol. Rhaid iddynt ufuddhau i'r rheolau. Pam na allwn sicrhau bod unigolyn agored i niwed nad oes ganddo lais, nad yw'n cael ei glywed, rhywun sy'n cael ei gau mewn cartref gofal, heb eiriolwr, rhywun nad oes ganddo aelod o'r teulu i hyrwyddo ei achos, rhywun na fydd yn gallu dweud, 'A wyf i'n cael y pethau iawn?', sydd wedi colli'r llais hwnnw, neu rywun y mae ei lais mor wan fel nad ydym yn ei glywed—? Pam, o pam, nad yw'n bosibl i Lywodraeth Cymru a'r byrddau iechyd wybod a yw'r holl bobl hynny'n cael eu trin yn briodol yn ôl y canllawiau NICE a luniwyd gan yr holl arbenigwyr?
Ceir argymhellion eraill—rwy'n sylweddoli bod fy amser ar ben, Ddirprwy Lywydd—ond rwy'n poeni'n fawr, oherwydd rwy'n credu bod 'derbyn mewn egwyddor' yn golygu, 'Ni feddyliwyd amdano yma, nid ydym yn barod iawn i'w wneud, ond fe dwyllwn ni chi ychydig bach a dweud, "Iawn, fe edrychwn arno".' Ni allwn beidio ag edrych arno. Mae hwn yn adroddiad da iawn, ac mae'r bobl hyn yn haeddu peidio â chael meddyginiaeth amhriodol pan nad oes ei hangen arnynt.
For me, this is absolutely a human rights issue. It is sometimes said that the measure of a decent society is how we treat our most vulnerable citizens, and, for me, that goes to the heart of the matter on this issue.
As the Chair has said, only one antipsychotic, risperidone, is licensed to treat the behavioural and psychological symptoms of dementia, yet we know that there is widespread prescribing of other antipsychotics to those living with dementia, and that these antipsychotics bring with them dangerous side effects, risks of falls and risk of early death. Serious concerns have been raised about that practice by the Older People's Commissioner for Wales on numerous occasions, and in other reports to Welsh Government. This very issue is highlighted in the legacy report of the health committee in the fourth Assembly.
So, the question for me today is whether the response of the Welsh Government provides the assurance the committee is looking for: that we are going to see concerted action to stop the inappropriate prescribing of antipsychotics. And I have to say, regrettably, that, for me, it does not. Why has the Welsh Government only accepted in principle the call that all health boards should collect and publish standardised data on the use of this medication in care homes? The committee heard evidence that some health boards are already doing this. Why is it not possible for them all to do it? Why has the Welsh Government only accepted in principle the call that all health boards are fully compliant with NICE guidance on dementia? The question we should be asking today is: why are they already not?
Now, I really dislike the term 'challenging behaviour' to describe the behaviour that, more often than not, people living with dementia exhibit when their needs are not being met—when they are in pain, when they need the toilet, when they are lonely or bored. More often than not, it is those unmet needs that lead to the inappropriate prescribing of antipsychotics. That's why a number of the committee's recommendations focus on the need to ensure that high-quality, person-centred care is delivered by well-trained staff.
Now, as has been highlighted, recommendation 9, which was designed to ensure that we have the right number of staff with the appropriate skill mix in care homes, was rejected. I know that the Cabinet Secretary has issued some further clarification on the reasoning behind that, but I would like to have further assurances from him today that the measures that he's referred to, the regulations that are going through, but also the nurse staffing levels Act, which doesn't actually apply to care homes—how that is going to improve the situation for care home residents.
Recommendation 10 calls for national standards to be developed to ensure that all staff working with people with dementia are trained in managing challenging behaviour. That was accepted in principle. Again, we have known for years that this is an issue. It was in the Older People’s Commissioner for Wales report, 'A Place to Call Home?' It should not be beyond the wherewithal of us to ensure that everybody working with our vulnerable citizens with dementia have that basic level of dementia training, and we've got a brilliant model for it in our Dementia Friends training. It's also vital to remember that there is really good practice out there in terms of things like inter-generational work. I had Griffithstown Primary School visit the cross-party group on dementia the other day, who spoke in such fantastic terms about the work they are doing with people living with dementia, which brings not just those people great benefits but also has been transformative for those children and young people.
I wanted to just conclude by just mentioning the final recommendation, which relates to the need to undertake some further work to look at the extent of the prescribing of antipsychotics to people on older persons' mental health wards in Wales. This is a subject close to my heart, as the Cabinet Secretary has heard me say before. These are some of our most voiceless citizens in Wales, and I believe we have a particular duty to ensure that their rights are upheld. That particular recommendation was accepted in principle, but it does sound, from reading the narrative, that that is something that the Cabinet Secretary is going to look seriously at, but I would implore him to do that with pace now.
It is also vital that he takes forward with pace the work on extending the nurse staffing levels legislation to hospital ward settings for people with dementia because they need that person-centred care. We have a duty, all of us, to listen to the voices of those people living with dementia to ensure that those voices are heard and to uphold their rights.
I mi, mae hwn yn fater sy'n ymwneud yn llwyr â hawliau dynol. Dywedir weithiau mai'r hyn sy'n dynodi cymdeithas wâr yw sut rydym yn trin ein dinasyddion mwyaf agored i niwed, ac i mi, mae hynny'n mynd at wraidd y mater hwn.
Fel y dywedodd y Cadeirydd, un cyffur gwrthseicotig yn unig, risperidone, a drwyddedwyd i drin symptomau ymddygiadol a seicolegol dementia, ac eto gwyddom fod meddyginiaethau gwrthseicotig eraill yn cael eu rhagnodi'n eang i'r rheini sy'n byw gyda dementia, a bod sgil-effeithiau peryglus i'r meddyginiaethau gwrthseicotig hyn, risg o godymau a'r risg o farwolaeth gynnar. Mynegwyd pryderon difrifol ynghylch yr arfer hwn gan Gomisiynydd Pobl Hŷn Cymru ar sawl achlysur, ac mewn adroddiadau eraill i Lywodraeth Cymru. Tynnir sylw at yr union fater hwn yn adroddiad etifeddiaeth y pwyllgor iechyd yn y pedwerydd Cynulliad.
Felly, y cwestiwn i mi heddiw yw a yw ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru yn darparu'r sicrwydd y mae'r pwyllgor yn chwilio amdano: ein bod yn mynd i weld gweithredu cyfunol i atal rhagnodi meddyginiaeth gwrthseicotig yn amhriodol. A rhaid imi ddweud, yn anffodus, nad yw'n gwneud hynny i mi. Pam fod Llywodraeth Cymru ond wedi derbyn yr alwad y dylai'r holl fyrddau iechyd gasglu a chyhoeddi data safonol ar y defnydd o'r feddyginiaeth hon mewn cartrefi gofal mewn egwyddor yn unig? Clywodd y pwyllgor dystiolaeth fod rhai byrddau iechyd eisoes yn gwneud hyn. Pam nad oes modd i bob un ohonynt wneud hynny? Pam fod Llywodraeth Cymru ond wedi derbyn mewn egwyddor yn unig yr alwad i sicrhau bod pob bwrdd iechyd yn cydymffurfio'n llawn â chanllawiau NICE ar ddementia? Y cwestiwn y dylem ei ofyn heddiw yw: pam nad ydynt yn gwneud hynny'n barod?
Nawr, mae'n gas gennyf yr ymadrodd 'ymddygiad heriol' i ddisgrifio ymddygiad y bydd pobl sy'n byw gyda dementia yn ei arddangos, yn amlach na pheidio, pan na fydd eu hanghenion yn cael eu diwallu—pan fyddant mewn poen, pan fyddant angen y toiled, pan fyddant yn unig neu wedi diflasu. Yn amlach na pheidio, yr anghenion nas diwallwyd hynny sy'n arwain at ragnodi meddyginiaeth wrthseicotig yn amhriodol. Dyna pam fod nifer o argymhellion y pwyllgor yn canolbwyntio ar yr angen i sicrhau bod gofal safonol sy'n canolbwyntio ar yr unigolyn yn cael ei ddarparu gan staff sydd wedi'u hyfforddi'n dda.
Nawr, fel y nodwyd, gwrthodwyd argymhelliad 9, a gynlluniwyd i sicrhau bod gennym y nifer gywir o staff gyda'r cymysgedd priodol o sgiliau mewn cartrefi gofal. Gwn fod Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet wedi cyhoeddi eglurhad pellach ar y rhesymau y tu ôl i hynny, ond hoffwn gael sicrwydd pellach ganddo heddiw fod y mesurau y cyfeiriodd atynt, y rheoliadau sy'n mynd drwodd, ond hefyd y Ddeddf lefelau staff nyrsio, nad yw'n berthnasol i gartrefi gofal—sut y mae honno'n mynd i wella'r sefyllfa ar gyfer preswylwyr cartrefi gofal.
Mae argymhelliad 10 yn galw am ddatblygu safonau cenedlaethol i sicrhau bod yr holl staff sy'n gweithio gyda phobl â dementia yn cael hyfforddiant ar gyfer rheoli ymddygiad heriol. Derbyniwyd yr argymhelliad hwn mewn egwyddor. Unwaith eto, rydym wedi gwybod ers blynyddoedd fod hon yn broblem. Roedd yn adroddiad Comisiynydd Pobl Hŷn Cymru, 'Lle i'w Alw'n Gartref?' Ni ddylai fod y tu hwnt i'n gallu i sicrhau bod gan bawb sy'n gweithio gyda'n dinasyddion agored i niwed sydd â dementia y lefel sylfaenol honno o hyfforddiant dementia, ac mae gennym fodel ardderchog ar ei gyfer yn ein hyfforddiant Cyfeillion Dementia. Hefyd mae'n hanfodol cofio bod yna arferion da iawn i'w cael fel y gwelir gyda phethau fel gwaith pontio'r cenedlaethau. Gwahoddais Ysgol Gynradd Griffithstown i ymweld â'r grŵp trawsbleidiol ar ddementia y diwrnod o'r blaen, ac roeddent yn siarad yn frwdfrydig iawn am y gwaith y maent yn ei wneud gyda phobl sy'n byw gyda dementia, sy'n sicrhau manteision mawr i'r bobl hynny ac mae wedi bod yn drawsnewidiol i'r plant a'r bobl ifanc hynny hefyd.
Roeddwn am orffen drwy sôn am yr argymhelliad olaf, sy'n ymwneud â'r angen i wneud gwaith pellach i edrych ar raddau rhagnodi meddyginiaeth wrthseicotig i bobl ar wardiau iechyd meddwl pobl hŷn yng Nghymru. Mae hwn yn bwnc sy'n agos at fy nghalon, fel y mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet wedi fy nghlywed yn dweud o'r blaen. Dyma rai o'n dinasyddion mwyaf di-lais yng Nghymru, a chredaf fod gennym ddyletswydd arbennig i sicrhau bod eu hawliau'n cael eu cynnal. Derbyniwyd yr argymhelliad penodol hwnnw mewn egwyddor, ond mae'n swnio, o ddarllen y naratif, fel pe bai'n rhywbeth y mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn mynd i edrych arno o ddifrif, ond buaswn yn erfyn arno i wneud hynny ar fyrder yn awr.
Mae'n hanfodol hefyd ei fod yn bwrw iddi ar fyrder i wneud y gwaith ar ymestyn y ddeddfwriaeth lefelau staff nyrsio i gynnwys wardiau ysbytai ar gyfer pobl â dementia oherwydd maent angen y gofal hwnnw sy'n canolbwyntio ar yr unigolyn. Mae gennym ddyletswydd, bob un ohonom, i wrando ar leisiau'r bobl sy'n byw gyda dementia er mwyn sicrhau bod y lleisiau hynny'n cael eu clywed ac i gynnal eu hawliau.
Rydw i'n meddwl y gallaf i siarad ar ran pob un ohonom ni sy'n Aelod o'r Cynulliad yma drwy ddweud ein bod ni'n dysgu llawer yn aml iawn wrth ymwneud â gwahanol ymgynghoriadau, ac mi wnaf i ddechrau fy nghyfraniad i efo cyfaddefiad: nid oeddwn i wedi sylweddoli cymaint oedd graddfa y mater yma oedd dan sylw. Nid oeddwn i wedi sylweddoli maint y broblem. Ond unwaith i ni ddechrau cymryd tystiolaeth fel pwyllgor, mi ddaeth hi'n amlwg iawn i fi a fy nghyd-Aelodau fod y dystiolaeth yr oeddem ni'n ei chlywed ac yn ei darllen yn bwerus ac yn ddirdynnol, ac mi oedd hi fel gwylio sgandal yn ymddangos o flaen fy llygaid—neu fel yna roeddwn i'n teimlo—gyda thyst ar ôl tyst yn adrodd wrthym ni stori a oedd yn gyson iawn ac yn ddirdynnol tu hwnt.
Nid ydw i'n credu bod yr hyn sy'n digwydd yn ein cartrefi gofal ni ag ysbytai yn digwydd oherwydd esgeulustod neu falais yn gyffredinol, ond mi ydw i'n grediniol, ar ôl ein gwaith ymchwil ni, mai camdriniaeth ydy'r hyn sydd yn digwydd. Dyna ydy'r canlyniad, a'r hyn sy'n digwydd ydy ein bod ni wedi caniatáu i'r defnydd o feddyginiaethau diangen, sydd gyfystyr i fi â cham-drin difrifol, ddod yn rhywbeth normal, ac mae'n rhaid rhoi pen ar hynny. Y gwir amdani ydy bod rhoi meddygaeth ddiangen i bobl fregus yn fater difrifol, ac fel rydym ni fel pwyllgor yn ei ddweud yn glir iawn yn yr adroddiad yma, mi oedd hi'n bryderus iawn clywed pa mor aml roedd hyn yn cael ei ddewis fel opsiwn cyntaf, nid fel dewis olaf. A dyna pam—oherwydd y difrifoldeb yma—rydym ni'n ystyried hyn. Dyna pam rydym ni wedi gwneud argymhellion ar wneud yn siŵr bod yna gydymffurfiaeth â chanllawiau NICE, bod angen datblygu rhestr wirio i staff gofal, bod angen rhoi sgiliau angenrheidiol i’r staff gofal i ymdrin ag ymddygiad heriol, ac yn y blaen, ac yn y blaen.
Rydw i mor siomedig yn ymateb y Llywodraeth. Er mai dim ond un argymhelliad maen nhw wedi’i wrthod, o edrych ar y rhai maen nhw yn eu derbyn mewn egwyddor, waeth iddyn nhw fod wedi eu gwrthod nhw ddim. Yn ymarferol, mae ymateb y Llywodraeth yn golygu eu bod nhw am drosglwyddo’r cyfrifoldeb dros weithredu i bobl eraill. Er enghraifft, yn argymhelliad 2, mae’r Llywodraeth yn dweud mai gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol sy’n gyfrifol am gydymffurfio efo canllawiau NICE. Mewn argymhellion eraill, mae’r Llywodraeth jest yn dweud y byddan nhw’n gofyn i randdeiliaid neu grwpiau cynghori i ystyried yr adroddiad yma wrth gynnal adolygiadau a diweddaru canllawiau. Mae fel pe baen nhw’n credu nad oes yna rôl i’r Llywodraeth rhywsut wrth gyhoeddi canllawiau a darparu arweinyddiaeth yn y maes yma.
I think I can speak on behalf of all Assembly Members by saying that we often learn a great deal in dealing with various consultations and reports, and I will start my contribution with an admission: I hadn’t realised the scale of the issue that we were covering. I hadn’t understood the scale of the problem. But once we’d started gathering evidence as a committee, it became very clear to me and my fellow Members that the evidence that we were hearing and reading was extremely powerful and heart-rending, and it was like watching a scandal unfolding before us—or that’s how I felt—with witness upon witness reporting to us a story that was very consistent and extremely heart-rending.
I don’t think that what’s happening in our care homes and hospitals is happening because of negligence or malice, generally speaking, but I am convinced, following our research and report, that what is happening is abuse. That is the result and what is happening is that we have allowed the use of unnecessary medicines, which, to me, is akin to serious abuse, to become the norm, and we must put an end to it. The truth is that giving unnecessary drugs to vulnerable people is a very serious issue, and as we as a committee state very clearly in this report, it was a huge concern to hear just how often this was chosen as the first option, rather than the last resort. And that's why—because of the gravity of the situation—we are considering this. And that’s why we have made these recommendations to ensure that there is compliance with NICE guidance, that we need a checklist for care staff, that staff in care homes need to be able to deal with challenging behaviour, and so on and so forth.
I am so disappointed in the Government’s response. Although they have only rejected one recommendation, in looking at the ones they have accepted in principle, well, they may as well have rejected them. In practical terms, the Government’s response means that they are going to transfer responsibility for implementation to others. For example, in recommendation 2, the Government states that health professionals are responsible for compliance with NICE guidelines. In other recommendations, the Government simply say that they will ask stakeholders or advisory groups to consider this report when holding their reviews and updating their guidance. They don’t seem to believe that the Government has any role in publishing guidance and giving leadership in this area.
Would you take an intervention?
A wnewch chi gymryd ymyriad?
Of course.
Wrth gwrs.
On your point of the abrogation of responsibility, in saying that perhaps health boards should be the ones responsible for the implementation of NICE guidelines, do you think we need to give an organisation such as Care Inspectorate Wales more teeth on behalf of the Government, or on behalf of us, so that they can make sure that those who break those guidelines are suitably punished?
Ar eich pwynt ynglŷn â gwadu cyfrifoldeb, wrth ddweud efallai mai'r byrddau iechyd a ddylai fod yn gyfrifol am weithredu canllawiau NICE, a gredwch fod angen inni roi mwy o rym i sefydliad fel Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru ar ran y Llywodraeth, neu ar ein rhan ninnau, fel y gallant wneud yn siŵr fod y rheini sy'n torri'r canllawiau hynny'n cael eu cosbi'n briodol?
I think that's a perfectly valid suggestion. The conclusions we came to were that there needs to be a whole range of bodies with teeth, and bodies that are empowered to help this systematic abuse, which is what it's turned into, to come to a head.
Credaf fod hwnnw'n awgrym cwbl ddilys. Y casgliadau y daethom iddynt oedd bod angen amrywiaeth eang o gyrff â dannedd, a chyrff sy'n cael eu grymuso i helpu i roi diwedd ar y cam-drin systematig hwn, sef yr hyn ydyw bellach.
Os edrychwn ni ar argymhelliad 9, yr un sy’n cael ei wrthod, mae rhesymeg y Llywodraeth yn ddryslyd iawn, rwy’n meddwl. Mae hwnnw’n argymell bod Llywodraeth Cymru’n datblygu dull ar gyfer asesu'r cyfuniad priodol o sgiliau sydd eu hangen ar gyfer staff y cartrefi gofal, a llunio canllawiau ar hyn i sicrhau bod lefelau staffio diogel a phriodol ym mhob cartref gofal. Mae’r Llywodraeth yn gwrthod hyn drwy ddadlau nad oes angen mecanwaith ychwanegol arnyn nhw am fod rheoliadau yn eu lle yn barod sy’n ei gwneud hi’n ofynnol i ddarparwyr cartrefi gofal ddangos sut maen nhw wedi dod i benderfyniad ynglŷn â’r math o staff sydd eu hangen arnyn nhw. Ond mae’n eithaf clir nad ydy’r rheoliadau yna’n cyflawni yr hyn mae yr argymhelliad yma yn ein hadroddiad ni yn gofyn amdano fo. Rŷm ni’n gofyn i’r Llywodraeth ddweud wrth gartrefi gofal beth ddylen nhw fod yn ei wneud a rhoi'r canllawiau mewn lle i helpu’r cartrefi gofal hynny. Yr un peth ddaeth yn amlwg i fi oedd gymaint o rôl sydd gan fferyllwyr i’w chwarae, ac maen nhw eisiau chwarae rhan llawer mwy blaengar mewn datrys y sefyllfa hon. Mae eisiau eu grymuso nhw, a dyna’r math o weithredu rhagweithiol rŷm ni angen ei weld gan y Llywodraeth. Felly, ydw, rwy’n siomedig yn y Llywodraeth yma.
Mi wnaf gloi drwy atsain geiriau Cadeirydd y pwyllgor, Dr Dai Lloyd, a geiriau sydd wedi cael eu dweud gan eraill. Rŷm ni’n sôn am dramgwyddo hawliau dynol yn fan hyn. Rwy’n gwbl grediniol o hynny. Nid yw bod eisiau mynd i’r afael â’r math yna o dramgwyddo hawliau dynol yn rhywbeth y gallwch chi ei dderbyn mewn egwyddor. Mi ddylai pob un ohonom ni fod yn benderfynol o wneud popeth sydd ei angen er mwyn edrych ar ôl rhai o’r bobl fwyaf bregus sydd gennym ni.
If we look at recommendation 9, which was rejected, the Government’s rationale is very confused, I think. It recommends that the Welsh Government should develop a method for assessing the appropriate mix of skills required for care home staff, and draw up guidance to ensure that there are safe and appropriate staffing levels in every care home. The Government rejects this by arguing that they don’t need an additional mechanism because regulations are already in place that make it a requirement for care home providers to demonstrate how they have come to decisions on the staff mix that they need. But it is quite clear that those regulations don’t deliver what this recommendation in our report is calling for. We are asking the Government to tell care homes what they should be doing and to put the guidance in place to assist those care homes to deliver that. What became clear to me is the role that pharmacists have to play, and they want to play a part—a far more prominent part—in resolving this problem. We need to empower them, and that’s the kind of proactive action that we need to see from the Government. So, yes, I’m disappointed in the Government.
I will close by echoing the words of the committee Chair, Dr Dai Lloyd, and words that have been spoken by others. We are talking, here, about contravening human rights. I am entirely convinced of that. Wanting to deal with that kind of human rights violation isn’t something that you can accept in principle. Each and every one of us should be determined to do everything necessary to safeguard some of the most vulnerable people in our communities.
I would like to place on record my thanks to the committee clerks, Members' Research Service staff, and the various witnesses who helped us conduct this inquiry. The witness accounts were often harrowing and were difficult to digest.
Dementia is a major public health issue in Wales; it is believed to affect around 42,000 people in Wales and is most common among older people. Dementia affects one in 20 over the age of 65, and around one in five of those over the age of 80. Globally, it is predicted that the numbers living with dementia will rise by a staggering 204 per cent over the next three decades. Unfortunately, dementia is the only condition in the top-10 causes of death without treatment to prevent, cure or slow its progression. We therefore have to manage the symptoms as best we can, and by Wales becoming a dementia-friendly nation, ensure that people with dementia live independently for as long as is possible in a supportive environment. People with dementia are vulnerable and it is important that correctly trained staff furnish a person with dementia with the very best standard of care to meet these very specific needs, and that dignity and respect are visible and adhered to at all times when helping these people, who are often without a voice.
As the disease progresses, those living with dementia will need more and more specialist care, and as the prevalence of the disease increases, we are relying more and more on care homes to look after those living with this disease, which is why it is concerning that there has been an increase in the use of antipsychotic medication in care homes in order to treat the behavioural and psychological symptoms of dementia. These drugs are not licensed for such use and their use is believed to contribute to the early deaths of nearly 2,000 dementia patients each year. This is a shocking statistic. It became clear, over the course of our inquiry, that these drugs are being routinely administered in response to the challenging behaviour of some dementia patients, even though that challenging behaviour is the result of an unmet need that the person with dementia is unable to articulate. It was also evident that a lack of access to allied health professionals was exacerbating the situation.
During our sessions with witnesses, it became evident that gathering the evidence on the use of antipsychotics was difficult, as the data was not collected and therefore readily available. The Royal College of Psychiatrists and the Faculty of Old Age Psychiatry called for audits to gather data on prescribing practices, which, they state, are critical to understand the prevalence and patterns of use of these drugs. I am therefore pleased that the Cabinet Secretary has accepted our first recommendation and that the Welsh Government will be taking action to reduce the inappropriate prescribing of these drugs. However, I would, as would the majority of my colleagues on the committee, like assurances that convening the relevant group of experts to look at this recommendation and the related recommendations won't take too long, and that we won't be looking at another few years before these recommendations are implemented.
I welcome the fact that the Cabinet Secretary shares our view that the use of antipsychotics for managing behavioural and psychological symptoms in dementia is unacceptable. I am grateful that he has accepted some of our recommendations, but I urge him to ensure that they are implemented as swiftly as is possible. Those with dementia are some of the most vulnerable people in our society and should be protected from harm, not put in harm's way simply to make someone's job easier. We have a duty to ensure that misuse of antipsychotic medicine for dementia patients is eliminated, and I look forward to seeing the Welsh Government make swift progress on our recommendations.
Hoffwn gofnodi fy niolch i glercod y pwyllgor, staff Gwasanaeth Ymchwil yr Aelodau, a'r tystion amrywiol sydd wedi ein helpu i gynnal yr ymchwiliad hwn. Roedd adroddiadau'r tystion yn aml yn ddirdynnol ac yn anodd gwrando arnynt.
Mae dementia yn fater iechyd cyhoeddus pwysig yng Nghymru; credir ei fod yn effeithio ar oddeutu 42,000 o bobl yng Nghymru ac mae i'w weld yn fwyaf cyffredin ymysg pobl hŷn. Mae dementia yn effeithio ar un ym mhob 20 o bobl dros 65 oed, ac oddeutu un o bob pump o bobl dros 80 oed. Yn fyd-eang, rhagwelir y bydd niferoedd y bobl sy'n byw gyda dementia yn codi 204 y cant, sy'n ffigur syfrdanol, dros y tri degawd nesaf. Yn anffodus, dementia yw'r unig gyflwr yn y 10 achos marwolaeth uchaf na cheir triniaeth i atal, gwella neu arafu ei gynnydd. Felly mae'n rhaid inni reoli'r symptomau cystal ag y gallwn, a thrwy sicrhau bod Cymru'n dod yn genedl sy'n deall dementia, gallwn wneud yn siŵr fod pobl â dementia yn byw'n annibynnol cyhyd ag sy'n bosibl mewn amgylchedd cefnogol. Mae pobl â dementia yn agored i niwed ac mae'n bwysig fod staff wedi'u hyfforddi'n gywir yn rhoi'r gofal gorau posibl i unigolyn â dementia er mwyn diwallu'r anghenion penodol hyn, a bod yr urddas a'r parch hwnnw'n weladwy ac yn cael ei gynnal bob amser wrth helpu'r bobl hyn, sydd heb lais yn aml.
Wrth i'r clefyd ddatblygu, bydd angen mwy a mwy o ofal arbenigol ar y rheini sy'n byw gyda dementia, ac wrth i nifer yr achosion o'r clefyd gynyddu, rydym yn dibynnu mwy a mwy ar gartrefi gofal i ofalu am y rhai sy'n byw gyda'r clefyd hwn, a dyna pam y mae'n peri pryder fod cynnydd wedi bod yn y defnydd o feddyginiaeth wrthseicotig mewn cartrefi gofal er mwyn trin symptomau ymddygiadol a seicolegol dementia. Nid yw'r cyffuriau hyn wedi'u trwyddedu ar gyfer defnydd o'r fath a chredir bod eu defnydd yn cyfrannu at farwolaethau cynnar bron i 2,000 o gleifion dementia bob blwyddyn. Mae hwn yn ystadegyn syfrdanol. Daeth yn amlwg, yn ystod ein hymchwiliad, fod y cyffuriau hyn yn cael eu rhoi fel mater o drefn mewn ymateb i ymddygiad heriol rhai cleifion sydd â dementia, er bod yr ymddygiad heriol yn ganlyniad i angen heb ei ddiwallu nad yw'r unigolyn â dementia yn gallu ei fynegi. Roedd hi hefyd yn amlwg fod diffyg mynediad at weithwyr proffesiynol perthynol i iechyd yn gwaethygu'r sefyllfa.
Yn ystod ein sesiynau gyda thystion, daeth yn amlwg fod casglu'r dystiolaeth ar y defnydd o feddyginiaethau gwrthseicotig yn anodd, gan nad oedd y data wedi'i chasglu nac ar gael yn rhwydd oherwydd hynny. Galwodd Coleg Brenhinol y Seiciatryddion a Chyfadran Seiciatreg yr Henoed am archwiliadau i gasglu data ar arferion rhagnodi, y dywedant eu bod yn hanfodol i ddeall nifer yr achosion a phatrymau defnydd o'r cyffuriau hyn. Rwy'n falch felly fod Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet wedi derbyn ein hargymhelliad cyntaf ac y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn cymryd camau i leihau'r arfer o ragnodi'r cyffuriau hyn yn amhriodol. Fodd bynnag, fel y rhan fwyaf o fy nghyd-aelodau ar y pwyllgor, hoffwn gael sicrwydd na fydd cynnull y grŵp perthnasol o arbenigwyr i edrych ar yr argymhelliad hwn a'r argymhellion cysylltiedig yn cymryd gormod o amser, ac na fyddwn yn edrych ar rai blynyddoedd eto cyn y gweithredir yr argymhellion hyn.
Rwy'n croesawu'r ffaith bod Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn rhannu ein barn fod y defnydd o feddyginiaeth wrthseicotig ar gyfer rheoli symptomau ymddygiadol a seicolegol dementia yn annerbyniol. Rwy'n ddiolchgar ei fod wedi derbyn rhai o'n hargymhellion, ond rwy'n ei annog i sicrhau y cânt eu gweithredu cyn gynted ag y bo modd. Pobl â dementia yw rhai o'r bobl fwyaf agored i niwed yn ein cymdeithas a dylent gael eu diogelu rhag niwed, nid eu rhoi mewn perygl er mwyn gwneud gwaith rhywun yn haws. Mae gennym ddyletswydd i sicrhau bod y camddefnydd o feddyginiaethau gwrthseicotig ar gyfer cleifion sydd â dementia yn cael ei ddileu, ac edrychaf ymlaen at weld Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwneud cynnydd cyflym ar ein hargymhellion.
Thank you for calling me to speak on this very important report. I'm a member of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee and I think this is one of the most important reports that we have produced.
I'm sure like many others in this Chamber, on Saturday I celebrated the NHS's seventieth birthday in my constituency with a stall and a birthday card for the NHS in Whitchurch in Cardiff North. It was a fantastic experience, because people were queuing up to sign, they were so enthusiastic about the NHS, people were telling me that their lives had been saved on three occasions, and other people talked about working in the NHS for 40 years, and it was a really stimulating morning. There were so many stories of care that it was wonderful, but the whole of that time in the morning, we didn't hear any of the stories about elderly people in care homes, or elderly people cared for by the NHS, and I think that is one of the key points—that those people can't tell us their stories, which is why this report is so important. We need to speak out for them, because they can't speak out for themselves. We do need to hear patients' voices and we do need to work out what are the care needs of people who are in our care.
I think that Lynne, when she was speaking, mentioned 'challenging behaviour' as a means of describing how people behave, and, again, I feel a reluctance to use that sort of way of speaking. But the important thing is to find out what are the real needs of people, the person-centred approach, and not to prescribe medicine that just effectively sedates them. We did hear some disturbing inquiries and the one that sticks in my head is the man in the care home who was constantly banging his head against a glass door. Instead of seeking a prescription for antipsychotic drugs, a carer worked out that why he was banging his head on the door was because he could see the door of a greenhouse that he wanted to go out to, because he'd been a gardener, and gardening had been his hobby all his life. He felt that this place would be a safe haven. That's an example that sticks with me in terms of how we've got to look at the person and not just take what may be an easy solution.
I wanted to talk now a bit about the recommendations from the committee and the Government's response. I was going to start with recommendation 3, which is really to reinforce what the Chair said when he made his introduction, because we did recommend that there should be developed a standardised checklist tool to be used by health and social care staff to identify the cause of challenging behaviour.
Quite a bit has already been said about the 'accept in principle' expression and how that is something that I hope we might move away from, but I know that, in the response, the Government says,
'developing one standardised checklist tool is not considered to be appropriate.'
I cannot really understand that reason for not developing a standardised tool, because recommendation 6 is accepted, where it says that
'medicines monitoring should be a key part of care homes inspection, and that Care Inspectorate Wales mandates documented evidence'.
So, I can't see why you can't have a standard tool that would be used for every care home, every setting where a person has been. It would give the staff the tools to check out every eventuality and make sure they weren't prescribing something when there was another reason for it, such as toothache, or problems with vision—you know, lots of things that are causing distress.
The Chair referred to the evidence we had from Professor Sue Jordan of Swansea University college of human and health sciences, who has developed the adverse drug reaction profile tool that has actually been tested and has been shown to reduce considerably the amount of antipsychotic medicines that have actually been used. It's been peer reviewed and has been very successful. I think that there's no point in reinventing the wheel; we know that there are toolkits that have been developed, such as the one by Professor Sue Jordan, and I think that it would make absolute sense to develop this toolkit to be used as a matter of routine in every care home, in every setting where an elderly person is being looked after. So, it's a matter of routine, the work has been done, we know about Professor Sue Jordan's work and other work that was presented to us, and I think that would be a clear way ahead for the Welsh Government.
Diolch ichi am fy ngalw i siarad am yr adroddiad pwysig iawn hwn. Rwy'n aelod o'r Pwyllgor Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Chwaraeon a chredaf mai dyma un o'r adroddiadau pwysicaf a gynhyrchwyd gennym.
Fel llawer o rai eraill yn y Siambr hon rwy'n siŵr, ddydd Sadwrn dathlais ben-blwydd y GIG yn 70 oed yn fy etholaeth gyda stondin a cherdyn pen-blwydd i'r y GIG yn yr Eglwys Newydd yng Ngogledd Caerdydd. Roedd yn brofiad gwych, oherwydd roedd pobl yn ciwio i'w lofnodi, roeddent mor frwdfrydig ynglŷn â'r GIG, roedd pobl yn dweud wrthyf fod eu bywydau wedi'u hachub ar dri achlysur a siaradodd pobl eraill am weithio yn y GIG ers 40 mlynedd, ac roedd yn fore calonogol iawn mewn gwirionedd. Roedd cymaint o straeon am ofal gwych, ond drwy'r holl amser hwnnw yn ystod y bore, ni chlywsom unrhyw hanesion am bobl oedrannus mewn cartrefi gofal, neu bobl hŷn yn cael gofal gan y GIG, a chredaf mai dyna un o'r pwyntiau allweddol—na all y bobl hynny ddweud eu straeon wrthym, a dyna pam y mae'r adroddiad hwn mor bwysig. Mae angen inni siarad ar eu rhan gan na allant siarad drostynt eu hunain. Mae angen inni glywed lleisiau cleifion ac mae angen inni ganfod beth yw anghenion gofal y bobl sydd yn ein gofal.
Credaf fod Lynne, pan oedd hi'n siarad, wedi crybwyll 'ymddygiad heriol' fel ffordd o ddisgrifio'r ffordd y mae pobl yn ymddwyn, ac unwaith eto, rwy'n teimlo'n amharod i ddefnyddio siarad o'r fath. Ond y peth pwysig yw darganfod beth yw gwir anghenion pobl, y dull sy'n canolbwyntio ar yr unigolyn, a pheidio â rhagnodi meddyginiaeth sy'n gwneud dim ond eu tawelu i bob pwrpas. Clywsom rai ymholiadau a oedd yn peri pryder a'r un sy'n aros yn fy meddwl yw'r dyn yn y cartref gofal a oedd yn gyson yn taro ei ben yn erbyn drws gwydr. Yn hytrach na gofyn am bresgripsiwn ar gyfer cyffuriau gwrthseicotig, darganfu gofalwr ei fod yn taro ei ben ar y drws oherwydd ei fod yn gallu gweld drws tŷ gwydr y dymunai fynd allan iddo, oherwydd ei fod wedi bod yn arddwr, a garddio oedd ei hobi wedi bod ar hyd ei oes. Teimlai y byddai'r lle hwnnw'n hafan ddiogel. Dyna enghraifft sy'n aros gyda mi o ran sut y mae'n rhaid inni edrych ar yr unigolyn ac nid cymryd yr hyn a allai fod yn ddim ond ateb hawdd.
Roeddwn am siarad ychydig am yr argymhellion gan y pwyllgor ac ymateb y Llywodraeth. Roeddwn yn mynd i ddechrau gydag argymhelliad 3, i atgyfnerthu'r hyn a ddywedodd y Cadeirydd yn ei gyflwyniad mewn gwirionedd, oherwydd fe wnaethom argymell y dylid datblygu offeryn rhestr wirio safonol i'w ddefnyddio gan staff iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol i nodi achos ymddygiad heriol.
Mae cryn dipyn wedi'i ddweud eisoes am yr ymadrodd 'derbyn mewn egwyddor' a sut y mae hynny'n rhywbeth y gobeithiaf y gallwn symud oddi wrtho, ond gwn fod y Llywodraeth yn dweud yn ei hymateb,
'nid ydym yn ystyried bod datblygu un rhestr wirio safonol yn briodol.'
Ni allaf ddeall y rheswm dros beidio â datblygu offeryn safonol, oherwydd derbyniwyd argymhelliad 6, lle mae'n dweud
'Dylai monitro meddyginiaethau fod yn rhan allweddol o arolygu cartrefi gofal, a bod Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru yn mandadu tystiolaeth wedi’i dogfennu'.
Felly, ni allaf weld pam na allwch gael offeryn safonol i'w ddefnyddio ar gyfer pob cartref gofal, pob lleoliad lle mae'r unigolyn wedi bod. Byddai'n rhoi offeryn i staff allu gwirio pob posibilrwydd a gwneud yn siŵr nad oeddent yn rhagnodi rhywbeth pan oedd rheswm arall dros yr ymddygiad, megis y ddannodd, neu broblemau gyda'u golwg—wyddoch chi, llawer o bethau sy'n peri gofid.
Cyfeiriodd y Cadeirydd at y dystiolaeth a gawsom gan yr Athro Sue Jordan o goleg gwyddorau dynol ac iechyd Prifysgol Abertawe, sydd wedi datblygu'r offeryn proffil adwaith niweidiol i gyffuriau a gafodd ei brofi ac y dangoswyd ei fod yn lleihau'n sylweddol y meddyginiaethau gwrthseicotig a ddefnyddir. Cynhaliwyd adolygiad gan gymheiriaid ar yr offeryn ac mae wedi bod yn llwyddiannus iawn. Rwy'n meddwl nad oes unrhyw bwynt mewn ailddyfeisio'r olwyn; gwyddom fod yna becynnau cymorth wedi'u datblygu, megis yr un gan yr Athro Sue Jordan, a chredaf y byddai'n gwneud synnwyr perffaith i ddatblygu'r pecyn cymorth hwn i'w ddefnyddio fel mater o drefn ym mhob cartref gofal, ym mhob lleoliad lle mae unigolyn hŷn yn cael gofal. Felly, mae'n fater o drefn, mae'r gwaith wedi'i wneud, gwyddom am waith yr Athro Sue Jordan a gwaith arall a gyflwynwyd i ni, ac rwy'n meddwl y byddai honno'n ffordd amlwg ymlaen i Lywodraeth Cymru.
I'm not a member of this committee, but can I really, really thank them for this report? One of the things I like about it is it absolutely conveys a sense of urgency, at least in terms of political decision making, for a quick and relatively straightforward response to a problem that we shouldn't have. I have to say I think it uncovers a whole range of other omissions that, frankly, I find pretty shocking.
Fist of all, can I say from my family experience that the correct use of antipsychotic drugs can be very useful? When, as a result of rapidly advancing dementia, my grandmother's delusion prompted her to threaten my equally aged grandfather with a kitchen knife, you could all see why a rapid response might be necessary as an emergency measure. Even so, and I admit I'm not sure how some of these meds work, why the report is not even stronger on the periods for reviewing use—. Because three months, to me, seems an awfully long time for someone to be on this type of drug at all if they'd been prescribed to deal with an episode of acute psychosis rather than a chronic and worsening pattern. When it comes to an individual who is exhibiting a sustained pattern of behaviour, that individual already has the right to a full assessment of his or her need under the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014, as indeed does their carer, if we're talking about at-home care.
I want to know, when it comes to recommendation 3, why we're giving anybody six months to compile a checklist. This legislation is four years old—four years during which a list could have been compiled pretty universally, allowing for differences for individuals with particular presentations, and do you know, Minister—sorry, Cabinet Secretary—I'm really bored when I come to reading responses that say, 'We will work with stakeholders.' You've had four years since the social services Act came in. Why isn't this thing in place already?
In a similar vein, regarding recommendation 5, am I really reading that Care Inspectorate Wales—or Care and Social Services Inspectorate Wales, as it was, to be fair—hasn't been challenging the monitoring of individuals' medication harder as part of looking at care homes' compliance with care plans? I don't expect them to make medical decisions, but I would expect them to inquire as to long periods of no change in medication, or sudden increases or decreases in medication, particularly if the increases involve antipsychotic or other worrying drugs, and especially when you know that these drugs are being prescribed pretty much off label. I mean, was it clear in the evidence you received—I genuinely don't know—why NICE has not signed off these drugs for the use to which they're being put frequently now? I saw what you told about the benefits being outweighed by long-term consequences in some case, but the report talks repeatedly of inappropriate use without any clarity on what constitutes 'inappropriate'. It doesn't seem to me, from the report, that off-label prescribing is inappropriate per se, so what is?
I appreciate that what you need to answer this is reliable data, and so I'm pleased to see recommendation 1. But can I suggest, however, that, alongside a collection of quantitative data from health boards, there is a complementary qualitative data collection from care homes, who see the daily effect of the continued use of these drugs on residents over a period of time? That qualitative evidence might include not just whether the challenging behaviour seems to have improved or not, but what other elements of the individual's character, interests and capacity have changed as a result of that use.
Now, another shocker for me is recommendation 10. Is it really the case, considering dementia is hardly a new phenomenon, that NICE guidelines for training care home staff in dealing with challenging residents aren't already mainstreamed into induction training for new care home workers? Now, I realise, of course, there are problems with recruitment and retention in entry-level care work. Perhaps their sense of vulnerability due to inadequate training is part of the reason why they leave. And, yes, it's fine that Social Care Wales is looking at professional development and career paths, but how have CSSIW in the past been able to give the thumbs up to homes if their staff are not trained in this essential element of dementia care?
I raised the overall inadequacy of CSSIW criteria and reporting processes with Gwenda Thomas way back in the last Assembly. Lynne Neagle today has mentioned a legacy report of the last Assembly. How many dementia strategies will we need? Why is this still an issue? Because, even with my minimum wobbly bookcases dementia training, I can understand that possible confusion, and certainly communication difficulties, can be infuriatingly frustrating for anyone. If you can't explain the excruciating discomfort—even the hallucinations—of a feverish urinary tract infection or your distress at the loss of dignity that is inevitable when another person has to help you with intimate care, yes, you're going to get challenging. So, accepting these recommendations and implementing them is an easy one for the Welsh Government, Cabinet Secretary. You were eviscerated last week, as was the rest of the Welsh Government, on the 'Mind over matter' report, and I think you're making the same mistake with this, with your responses. I say to care home managers: don't wait for the Welsh Government, get training your staff now. And, GPs, don't wait for data: ask more questions when you're being pressurised by care home owners to prescribe. Safety first, of course, but don't let kindness and understanding get poor second in this atrocious situation.
Nid wyf yn aelod o'r pwyllgor, ond a gaf fi ddiolch yn fawr iawn iddynt am yr adroddiad hwn? Un o'r pethau rwy'n eu hoffi amdano yw ei fod yn bendant yn cyfleu ymdeimlad o frys, o leiaf o ran gwneud penderfyniadau gwleidyddol, er mwyn sicrhau ymateb cyflym a chymharol syml i broblem na ddylai fod gennym. Rhaid imi ddweud fy mod yn credu ei fod yn dadlennu ystod gyfan o hepgoriadau eraill y credaf eu bod yn eithaf brawychus a dweud y gwir.
Yn gyntaf oll, a gaf fi ddweud o brofiad teuluol y gall y defnydd cywir o gyffuriau gwrthseicotig fod yn ddefnyddiol iawn? Pan arweiniodd rhithdyb fy mam-gu, o ganlyniad i ddementia a waethygodd yn gyflym, at achosi iddi fygwth fy nhad-cu a oedd yr un mor oedrannus â hi â chyllell cegin, gallai pawb ohonoch weld pam y gallai fod angen ymateb cyflym fel mesur brys. Er hynny, ac rwy'n cyfaddef nad wyf yn siŵr sut y mae rhai o'r meddyginiaethau hyn yn gweithio, pam nad yw'r adroddiad hyd yn oed yn gryfach ar y cyfnodau ar gyfer adolygu defnydd—. Oherwydd i mi, mae tri mis i'w weld yn amser hir iawn i rywun fod ar y math hwn o gyffur o gwbl os ydynt wedi'u rhagnodi i ymdrin ag episod o seicosis acíwt yn hytrach na phatrwm cronig sy'n gwaethygu. Gydag unigolyn sy'n arddangos patrwm cyson o ymddygiad, mae gan yr unigolyn hwnnw eisoes hawl i asesiad llawn o'i anghenion o dan Ddeddf Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol a Llesiant (Cymru) 2014, fel eu gofalwr yn wir, os ydym yn sôn am ofal yn y cartref.
Mewn perthynas ag argymhelliad 3, hoffwn wybod pam ein bod yn rhoi chwe mis i unrhyw un lunio rhestr wirio. Mae'r ddeddfwriaeth hon yn bedair blwydd oed—pedair blynedd pan ellid bod wedi llunio rhestr gan bawb fwy neu lai, gan ganiatáu ar gyfer gwahaniaethau rhwng unigolion gyda chyflyrau penodol, ac a wyddoch chi, Weinidog—Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, mae'n ddrwg gennyf—rwyf wedi diflasu ar ddarllen ymatebion sy'n dweud, 'Byddwn yn gweithio gyda rhanddeiliaid.' Rydych wedi cael pedair blynedd ers i Ddeddf y gwasanaethau cymdeithasol ddod i rym. Pam nad yw hyn ar waith eisoes?
Yn yr un modd, mewn perthynas ag argymhelliad 5, a wyf fi o ddifrif yn darllen nad yw Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru—neu Arolygiaeth Gofal a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol Cymru, fel yr arferai fod, a bod yn deg—wedi bod yn herio'r gwaith o fonitro meddyginiaeth unigolion yn fwy cadarn fel rhan o edrych ar gydymffurfiaeth cartrefi gofal â chynlluniau gofal? Nid wyf yn disgwyl iddynt wneud penderfyniadau meddygol, ond buaswn yn disgwyl iddynt ymholi ynghylch cyfnodau hir heb unrhyw newid yn y feddyginiaeth, neu gynnydd neu ostyngiad sydyn yn y feddyginiaeth, yn enwedig os yw'r cynnydd yn cynnwys cyffuriau gwrthseicotig neu gyffuriau eraill sy'n peri pryder, ac yn enwedig pan fyddwch yn gwybod bod y cyffuriau hyn yn cael eu rhagnodi ar gyfer cyflyrau ar wahân i'r rhai y cafodd ei gymeradwyo ar eu cyfer yn swyddogol. Hynny yw, a oedd yn glir yn y dystiolaeth a gawsoch—o ddifrif, nid wyf yn gwybod—pam nad yw NICE wedi cymeradwyo'r cyffuriau hyn ar gyfer y pethau y cânt eu defnyddio ar eu cyfer yn aml bellach? Gwelais yr hyn a ddywedoch chi am y canlyniadau hirdymor yn fwy na'r manteision mewn rhai achosion, ond mae'r adroddiad yn sôn dro ar ôl tro am ddefnydd amhriodol heb egluro dim beth y mae 'amhriodol' yn ei olygu. Nid yw'n ymddangos i mi, o'r adroddiad, fod rhagnodi ar gyfer pethau na chawsant eu cymeradwyo i'w trin ynddo'i hun yn amhriodol, felly beth sy'n amhriodol?
Rwy'n deall mai beth sydd ei angen arnoch i ateb hyn yw data dibynadwy, ac felly rwy'n falch o weld argymhelliad 1. Ond a gaf fi awgrymu, fodd bynnag, fod yna gasglu data ansoddol cyflenwol o gartrefi gofal yn digwydd yn ogystal â chasglu data meintiol gan fyrddau iechyd, gan fod cartrefi gofal yn gweld effaith ddyddiol defnydd parhaus o'r cyffuriau hyn ar drigolion dros gyfnod o amser? Gallai'r dystiolaeth ansoddol gynnwys nid yn unig a yw'r ymddygiad heriol i'w weld wedi gwella neu beidio, ond pa elfennau eraill o gymeriad, diddordebau a galluoedd yr unigolyn sydd wedi newid o ganlyniad i'r defnydd hwnnw.
Nawr, peth arall sy'n fy syfrdanu yw argymhelliad 10. A yw'n iawn, o ystyried nad yw dementia yn ffenomen newydd o bell ffordd, nad yw canllawiau NICE ar gyfer hyfforddi staff cartrefi gofal i ymdrin â phreswylwyr heriol eisoes wedi eu prif-ffrydio mewn hyfforddiant ymsefydlu ar gyfer gweithwyr newydd cartrefi gofal? Nawr, rwy'n sylweddoli, wrth gwrs, fod yna broblemau gyda recriwtio a chadw staff mewn gwaith gofal lefel mynediad. Efallai fod eu teimlad o fod yn agored i niwed oherwydd hyfforddiant annigonol yn rhan o'r rheswm pam y maent yn gadael. Ac mae'n iawn i Ofal Cymdeithasol Cymru ystyried datblygiad proffesiynol a llwybrau gyrfa, ond sut y gallodd AGGCC yn y gorffennol roi sêl bendith i gartrefi os nad yw eu staff wedi eu hyfforddi yn yr elfen hanfodol hon o ofal dementia?
Trafodais annigonolrwydd cyffredinol meini prawf a phrosesau adrodd AGGCC gyda Gwenda Thomas ymhell yn ôl yn ystod y Cynulliad diwethaf. Heddiw mae Lynne Neagle wedi sôn am adroddiad etifeddiaeth o'r Cynulliad diwethaf. Faint o strategaethau dementia fydd eu hangen arnom? Pam y mae hon yn dal i fod yn broblem? Oherwydd, hyd yn oed gyda'r hyfforddiant dementia sylfaenol a gefais i, gallaf ddeall y gall dryswch posibl, ac anawsterau cyfathrebu yn sicr, fod yn eithriadol o rhwystredig i unrhyw un. Os na allwch egluro anghysur arteithiol—a'r rhithweledigaethau—yn sgil heintiau'r llwybr wrinol twymynol neu eich gofid o golli urddas fel sy'n anochel pan fydd yn rhaid i rywun arall eich helpu gyda gofal personol, rydych chi'n mynd i fod yn heriol. Felly, mae derbyn yr argymhellion hyn a'u gweithredu yn hawdd i Lywodraeth Cymru, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Cawsoch eich llabyddio yr wythnos diwethaf, fel gweddill Llywodraeth Cymru, mewn perthynas â'r adroddiad 'Cadernid Meddwl', a chredaf eich bod yn gwneud yr un camgymeriad gyda hwn, gyda'ch ymatebion. Rwy'n dweud wrth reolwyr cartrefi gofal: peidiwch ag aros i Lywodraeth Cymru weithredu, rhowch hyfforddiant i'ch staff yn awr. A feddygon teulu, peidiwch ag aros am ddata: gofynnwch fwy o gwestiynau pan fydd perchnogion cartrefi gofal yn gwasgu arnoch i ragnodi. Diogelwch yn gyntaf, wrth gwrs, ond peidiwch â gadael i garedigrwydd a dealltwriaeth ddod yn ail gwael yn y sefyllfa erchyll hon.
Can I now call the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Services, Vaughan Gething?
A gaf fi alw yn awr ar Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, Vaughan Gething?
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I do actually want to thank the committee for the work that they have undertaken in producing this report on antipsychotic medication in care homes. I recognise the tone of the debate and the disappointment that some Members expressed, but I do actually think that there is a large amount of agreement on the priority of action that is required to be undertaken on this. Actually, the 'accept in principle' is not a malign attempt to try and avoid recommendations or to explain why nothing will happen. It's actually because of some of the detail and how we want to work that through. We don't exactly agree on all the wording, but we do actually accept and understand the direction of travel the committee want to take in the recommendations. I have something more to say at the conclusion on how I want to actually be able to take that work forward and provide more information to the committee about what we are doing, but I don't think that's going to be possible in the time available in today's debate.
But the committee's findings did provide additional confirmation that our focus does need to be on the provision of person-centred care, and how we use non-pharmacological responses before considering a pharmacological one. And that has to be appropriate—appropriate prescribing in all instances. There is a clear focus on that in the dementia action plan that I launched back in February—again, a plan that was designed and delivered, working with people who are living with dementia themselves, their carers, as well as providers. So, it really has had buy-in from people across the dementia community about what matters to them.
The Government has agreed, or agreed in principle, 10 of the 11 recommendations, and it is about how we take those forward. Of course, I do recognise that the committee understand that there are steps that we are already taking to improve the availability of data, which is a key point that has come up in a number of contributions, in relation to prescribing antipsychotic medication amongst older people. We do acknowledge honestly in our response that there are limitations at present in our data collection, particularly in how you can attribute prescriptions to residents in care homes. The potential over-prescribing of antipsychotic medication is a concern, regardless of whether it is an individual who is resident in a care home, because, indeed, reducing rates of prescribing among older people in general would have a positive impact on the use of these medicines among care home residents too. I just want to reiterate the point about the fact that we will take seriously what we are proposing to do. So, just in relation to recommendation 1, the expert group that I said that I will be setting up, I expect that to report to me with advice before the end of the calendar year—so, not kicked off into two or three years' time to try and avoid dealing with the issue, but within this calendar year, to have advice and to update Members on action that we expect to be taken as a result of it.
A number of the recommendations made by the committee are about the availability and reporting of prescribing data. There is, of course, more to be done, and so we've accepted a range of those recommendations. I have, of course, considered again recommendation 11, and I have moved the response to 'accept' rather than 'accept in principle'. So, I have asked officials to convene a group of those relevant experts to examine the usefulness of various data sources. There is something there about—. The point of that is to help us reduce inappropriate prescribing of antipsychotic medication.
The committee also refers to the importance of ensuring that comprehensive, person-centred assessments are undertaken to enable the provision of generally person-centred care and support. That, of course, is a key focus of the dementia action plan—not just a plan, but a plan that is backed by £10 million of additional investment from this year to support delivery. Many of the dementia action plan points are consistent with the committee's recommendations, which should be no surprise—for instance, the reference to the need to enable people who work with those living with dementia to have the skills to feel confidence and competent in caring for, and supporting, those living with dementia.
So, within our response, we reaffirm our commitment to the roll-out of the 'Good work: A Dementia Learning and Development Framework for Wales' within care home settings. That framework does provide guidance on the training and principles for challenging behaviour, and I do recognise the description that Lynne Neagle has provided. It is about understanding what is behind that behaviour rather than simply saying that you just need to deal with it in the way that we recognise it is, on a far too common basis, dealt with, with inappropriate prescribing of medication. So, there's no disagreement about that. It's about understanding that behavioural distress and having alternative strategies for staff, whether they are health and care professionals with a professional qualification or, indeed, other staff working within the care home. The point about training is well understood as well.
I am pleased, though, to see a focus in the report on the use of allied health professionals, including speech and language therapists. So, allied health professionals, we recognise, make a critical contribution to enabling people to live well with their dementia. Those professions identify and address possible causes of behaviour that is described as 'challenging', including the unmet physical, cognitive, emotional and communication needs and how we provide interventions to reduce the level of stress and anxiety and indeed the frustration that we recognise often accompanies this. That's why, in terms of having the right number of allied healthcare professionals, the next stage of our 'Train. Work. Live.' campaign is going to be extended to include allied health professionals.
With the dementia action plan, we're working with partners to develop multidisciplinary teams around the individual to help provide person-centred and co-ordinated care, support and treatment. We recognise the need to ensure that there are good links between care homes and community services with the teams around the individual. The all-Wales dementia allied health practitioner consultant post, when recruited, will have a remit to work with care homes, health boards and local authorities to evidence and promote best practice from allied health professionals across our whole health and social care system.
I do want to try and address the recommendation that was rejected, on developing
'a method for assessing the appropriate skills mix...for care home staff'
and to provide guidance to ensure safe and appropriate staffing levels. The aim of the recommendation isn't something that I oppose, but it is about that I think we've got the right frameworks in place through the Regulation and Inspection of Social Care (Wales) Act 2016 and the Nurse Staffing Levels (Wales) Act 2016. Now, I've written to the committee with more detail on the work that we have done and are doing, and that includes the work led by Bangor University, and their work concluded that there is no single evidence-based tool that will identify the numbers and types of staff to be employed in the care home sector, but the Chief Nursing Officer for Wales is commissioning further work to set guidance and support commissioners for placements within the sector. That will learn from the work to date already on implementation of the nurse staffing Act and the NHS national collaborative commissioning unit.
Now, there's something here about understanding the work we're already doing and understanding what we will do to actually make fit for purpose the legislative framework we already have and deliver a real and practical difference. But I accept that, of course, the committee and Members will want to come back and see if that is happening in practice. So, we'll monitor our progress on the recommendations alongside the dementia action plan. We've set up a dementia oversight of the implementation and impact group, and that will involve people who have been affected by dementia in their membership; they're actively involved in monitoring our success or otherwise, and they've already met for the first time in June. So, it won't simply be about the Government assessing its own action.
I do recognise and agree with the committee that inappropriate prescribing—and that includes not regularly reviewing prescribing—is a real cause of harm. There's no lack of concern or an approach from this Government that dismisses those concerns or is complacent about the need for improvement. And I will consider again the points made by Members in this debate in a number of areas that we have accepted in principle, and I will write again to outline the action we are taking to try and deliver on the purpose of the recommendation the committee has made, because we are looking in good faith at how we meet shared objectives, even though we don't agree on all of the detail. And I will of course update Members on the progress made in dealing with the recommendations and the timescales for action and future action in implementing the dementia action plan.
Diolch ichi, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Hoffwn ddiolch i'r pwyllgor am y gwaith y maent wedi'i wneud yn cynhyrchu'r adroddiad hwn ar feddyginiaeth wrthseicotig mewn cartrefi gofal. Rwy'n cydnabod cywair y ddadl a'r siom a fynegodd rhai o'r Aelodau, ond rwy'n credu mewn gwirionedd fod cryn dipyn o gytundeb ar flaenoriaeth y camau gweithredu y mae angen eu rhoi ar waith ar hyn. Mewn gwirionedd, nid ymgais faleisus i geisio osgoi argymhellion neu i egluro pam na fydd unrhyw beth yn digwydd yw 'derbyn mewn egwyddor'. Mae'n ymwneud â rhai o'r manylion a sut rydym am weithio drwy hynny. Nid ydym yn cytuno ar yr yr union eiriad, ond mewn gwirionedd rydym yn derbyn ac yn deall y cyfeiriad teithio y mae'r pwyllgor am fynd iddo yn yr argymhellion. Mae gennyf fwy i'w ddweud wrth gloi ynglŷn â sut rwyf am fwrw ymlaen â'r gwaith hwnnw mewn gwirionedd a darparu mwy o wybodaeth i'r pwyllgor ynglŷn â'r hyn rydym yn ei wneud, ond nid wyf yn meddwl bod hynny'n mynd i fod yn bosibl yn yr amser sydd ar gael yn y ddadl heddiw.
Ond roedd canfyddiadau'r pwyllgor yn darparu cadarnhad ychwanegol fod angen i'n ffocws fod ar ddarparu gofal sy'n canolbwyntio ar yr unigolyn, a sut y defnyddiwn ymatebion nad ydynt yn rhai ffarmacolegol cyn ystyried ymateb ffarmacolegol. Ac mae'n rhaid bod hynny'n briodol—rhagnodi priodol ym mhob achos. Ceir ffocws clir ar hynny yn y cynllun gweithredu ar gyfer dementia a lansiwyd gennyf ym mis Chwefror—unwaith eto, cynllun a luniwyd ac a gyflawnwyd gan weithio gyda phobl sy'n byw gyda dementia eu hunain, eu gofalwyr, yn ogystal â darparwyr. Felly, mae wedi cael cefnogaeth gan bobl ar draws y gymuned ddementia mewn perthynas â'r hyn sy'n bwysig iddynt hwy.
Mae'r Llywodraeth wedi cytuno, neu wedi cytuno mewn egwyddor, i dderbyn 10 o'r 11 o argymhellion, ac mae'n ymwneud â sut y datblygwn y rheini. Wrth gwrs, rwy'n cydnabod bod y pwyllgor yn deall bod yna gamau rydym eisoes yn eu cymryd i wella argaeledd data, sy'n bwynt allweddol a gododd mewn nifer o gyfraniadau, mewn perthynas â rhagnodi meddyginiaeth wrthseicotig ymhlith pobl hŷn. Rydym yn cydnabod yn onest yn ein hymateb fod cyfyngiadau ar hyn o bryd yn ein dull o gasglu data, yn enwedig o ran sut y gallwch briodoli presgripsiynau i breswylwyr mewn cartrefi gofal. Mae'r posibilrwydd o or-ragnodi meddyginiaeth wrthseicotig yn peri pryder, ni waeth a yw'n unigolyn sy'n preswylio mewn cartref gofal, oherwydd, yn wir, byddai lleihau cyfraddau rhagnodi ymysg pobl hŷn yn gyffredinol yn cael effaith gadarnhaol ar y defnydd o'r meddyginiaethau hyn ymhlith preswylwyr cartrefi gofal hefyd. Hoffwn ailadrodd y pwynt y byddwn o ddifrif ynglŷn â'r hyn yr ydym yn bwriadu ei wneud. Felly, mewn perthynas ag argymhelliad 1, y grŵp arbenigol y dywedais y byddwn yn ei sefydlu, rwy'n disgwyl iddo gyflwyno adroddiad yn rhoi cyngor i mi cyn diwedd y flwyddyn galendr—felly, nid yw'n cael ei wthio ddwy neu dair blynedd yn ei flaen er mwyn ceisio osgoi ymdrin â'r mater, ond o fewn y flwyddyn galendr hon, i gael cyngor ac i roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Aelodau am y camau y disgwyliwn eu cymryd o ganlyniad i hynny.
Mae nifer o'r argymhellion a wnaeth y pwyllgor yn ymwneud ag argaeledd ac adrodd ar ddata rhagnodi. Wrth gwrs, mae rhagor i'w wneud, ac felly rydym wedi derbyn ystod o'r argymhellion hynny. Rwyf wedi ystyried argymhelliad 11 eto wrth gwrs, ac rwyf wedi newid yr ymateb i 'derbyn' yn hytrach na 'derbyn mewn egwyddor'. Felly, rwyf wedi gofyn i swyddogion gynnull grŵp o'r arbenigwyr perthnasol hynny i edrych ar ddefnyddioldeb ffynonellau data amrywiol. Mae rhywbeth yno am—. Diben hynny yw ein helpu i leihau'r arfer o ragnodi meddyginiaeth wrthseicotig yn amhriodol.
Mae'r pwyllgor hefyd yn cyfeirio at bwysigrwydd sicrhau y cynhelir asesiadau cynhwysfawr sy'n canolbwyntio ar yr unigolyn er mwyn galluogi i ofal a chymorth sy'n canolbwyntio ar yr unigolyn gael ei ddarparu yn gyffredinol. Mae hynny, wrth gwrs, yn ffocws allweddol yn y cynllun gweithredu ar gyfer dementia—nid dim ond cynllun, ond cynllun a gefnogir gan £10 miliwn o fuddsoddiad ychwanegol o'r flwyddyn hon i helpu ei gyflawni. Mae llawer o bwyntiau gweithredu'r cynllun gweithredu ar gyfer dementia yn gyson ag argymhellion y pwyllgor, ac ni ddylai hynny fod yn syndod—er enghraifft, y cyfeiriad at yr angen i alluogi pobl sy'n gweithio gyda'r rhai sy'n byw gyda dementia i feddu ar sgiliau i deimlo'n hyderus ac yn gymwys i ofalu am, a chefnogi pobl sy'n byw gyda dementia.
Felly, yn ein hymateb, rydym yn ailddatgan ein hymrwymiad i gyflwyno 'Gwaith da: Fframwaith dysgu a datblygu dementia i Gymru' mewn cartrefi gofal. Mae'r fframwaith hwnnw'n darparu canllawiau ar hyfforddiant ac egwyddorion ymddygiad heriol, ac rwy'n cydnabod y disgrifiad a roddodd Lynne Neagle. Mae'n ymwneud â deall beth sy'n sail i'r ymddygiad hwnnw yn hytrach na dweud yn syml fod angen i chi ymdrin ag ef yn y ffordd rydym yn cydnabod y caiff ei drin yn llawer rhy gyffredin, sef drwy ragnodi meddyginiaeth yn amhriodol. Felly, nid oes unrhyw anghytundeb ynghylch hynny. Mae'n ymwneud â deall y gofid ymddygiadol a chael strategaethau amgen ar gyfer staff, pa un a ydynt yn weithwyr proffesiynol iechyd a gofal gyda chymhwyster proffesiynol neu aelodau eraill o staff sy'n gweithio yn y cartref gofal yn wir. Deellir y pwynt am hyfforddiant yn dda hefyd.
Er hynny, rwy'n falch o weld ffocws yn yr adroddiad ar y defnydd o weithwyr proffesiynol perthynol i iechyd, gan gynnwys therapyddion lleferydd ac iaith. Felly, rydym yn cydnabod bod gweithwyr proffesiynol perthynol i iechyd yn gwneud cyfraniad hollbwysig i alluogi pobl i fyw'n dda gyda'u dementia. Mae'r proffesiynau hynny'n nodi ac yn mynd i'r afael ag achosion posibl ymddygiad a elwir yn 'heriol', gan gynnwys anghenion corfforol, gwybyddol ac emosiynol nas diwallwyd ac anghenion cyfathrebu a sut y gallwn ddarparu ymyriadau i leihau lefel y straen a'r pryder ac yn wir y rhwystredigaeth y gwyddom ei bod yn aml yn digwydd ochr yn ochr â hyn. Dyna pam, o ran cael y nifer iawn o weithwyr proffesiynol perthynol i ofal iechyd, y bydd cam nesaf ein hymgyrch 'Hyfforddi. Gwaith. Byw.' yn cael ei ymestyn i gynnwys gweithwyr proffesiynol perthynol i iechyd.
Gyda'r cynllun gweithredu ar gyfer dementia, rydym yn gweithio gyda phartneriaid i ddatblygu timau amlddisgyblaethol o amgylch yr unigolyn i helpu i ddarparu gofal, cymorth a thriniaeth sy'n gydgysylltiedig ac sy'n canolbwyntio ar yr unigolyn. Rydym yn cydnabod yr angen i sicrhau bod cysylltiadau da rhwng cartrefi gofal a gwasanaethau yn y gymuned gyda thimau o amgylch yr unigolyn. Bydd cylch gwaith y swydd ymarferydd ymgynghorol dementia perthynol i iechyd Cymru gyfan, pan gaiff ei recriwtio, yn cynnwys gweithio gyda chartrefi gofal, byrddau iechyd ac awdurdodau lleol i hyrwyddo a dangos tystiolaeth o arferion gorau gan weithwyr proffesiynol perthynol i iechyd ar draws ein holl system iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol.
Rwyf am geisio rhoi sylw i'r argymhelliad a wrthodwyd, ar ddatblygu
'asesu’r cyfuniad priodol o sgiliau... ar gyfer staff cartrefi gofal'
ac i ddarparu canllawiau ar gyfer sicrhau lefelau staffio diogel a phriodol. Nid yw nod yr argymhelliad yn rhywbeth rwy'n ei wrthwynebu, ond mae'n ymwneud â'r ffaith fy mod yn credu bod gennym fframweithiau cywir ar waith drwy Ddeddf Rheoleiddio ac Arolygu Gofal Cymdeithasol (Cymru) 2016 a Deddf Lefelau Staff Nyrsio (Cymru) 2016. Nawr, rwyf wedi ysgrifennu at y pwyllgor gyda rhagor o fanylion am y gwaith rydym wedi ei wneud ac yn ei wneud, ac mae hynny'n cynnwys y gwaith dan arweiniad Prifysgol Bangor, a daeth eu gwaith i'r casgliad nad oes un offeryn yn seiliedig ar dystiolaeth a fydd yn nodi niferoedd a mathau o staff sydd i'w cyflogi yn y sector cartrefi gofal, ond mae Prif Swyddog Nyrsio Cymru'n comisiynu gwaith pellach ar osod canllawiau a chefnogi comisiynwyr ar gyfer lleoliadau o fewn y sector. Bydd hynny'n dysgu o'r gwaith sydd ar y gweill eisoes ar weithredu'r Ddeddf staff nyrsio ac uned gomisiynu gydweithredol genedlaethol y GIG.
Nawr, mae rhywbeth yma ynghylch deall y gwaith rydym eisoes yn ei wneud a deall beth a wnawn i wneud y fframwaith deddfwriaethol sydd gennym eisoes yn addas i'r diben a sicrhau gwahaniaeth real ac ymarferol. Ond rwy'n derbyn, wrth gwrs, y bydd y pwyllgor a'r Aelodau am ddod yn ôl i weld a yw hynny'n digwydd yn ymarferol. Felly, byddwn yn monitro ein cynnydd ar yr argymhellion ochr yn ochr â'r cynllun gweithredu ar gyfer dementia. Rydym wedi sefydlu goruchwyliaeth ddementia o'r grŵp gweithredu ac effaith, a bydd yn cynnwys pobl yr effeithiwyd arnynt gan ddementia ymhlith eu haelodau; maent yn ymwneud yn weithredol â monitro ein llwyddiant neu fel arall, ac maent eisoes wedi cyfarfod am y tro cyntaf ym mis Mehefin. Felly, nid y Llywodraeth yn asesu ei gwaith ei hun fydd hyn.
Rwy'n cydnabod ac yn cytuno gyda'r pwyllgor fod rhagnodi amhriodol—ac mae hynny'n cynnwys methu adolygu rhagnodi yn rheolaidd—yn achosi niwed go iawn. Ni cheir diffyg pryder ar ran y Llywodraeth, nac ymagwedd gan y Llywodraeth sy'n diystyru'r pryderon hynny neu hunanfodlonrwydd ynghylch yr angen i wella. A byddaf yn ystyried eto y pwyntiau a wnaed gan Aelodau yn y ddadl hon mewn nifer o feysydd a dderbyniwyd gennym mewn egwyddor, a byddaf yn ysgrifennu unwaith eto i amlinellu'r camau rydym yn eu gweithredu er mwyn ceisio cyflawni diben yr argymhelliad a wnaed gan y pwyllgor, oherwydd rydym yn edrych yn ddidwyll ar sut rydym yn diwallu amcanion a rennir, er nad ydym yn cytuno ar yr holl fanylion. Ac wrth gwrs byddaf yn rhoi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Aelodau ar y cynnydd a wnaed wrth ymdrin â'r argymhellion a'r amserlenni ar gyfer gweithredu a gwaith yn y dyfodol ar roi'r cynllun gweithredu ar gyfer dementia ar waith.
Thank you. Can I now call on Dai Lloyd as Chair of the committee to reply to the debate?
Diolch. A gaf fi alw yn awr ar Dai Lloyd fel Cadeirydd y pwyllgor i ymateb i'r ddadl?
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd, and I'm very happy to reply to the debate. It's been an excellent debate, and I think that's testament to the quality of the contributions; obviously, it's a testament to the quality of the evidence we took over the months from many witnesses—both written and oral—and obviously to the quality of the support that we have as a committee from our clerks and our researchers. It truly is a team effort, and a justifiable team effort, because we are trying to address an injustice to a very vulnerable group of people, as we've heard.
I'd like to thank the Cabinet Secretary and other Members for their contributions this afternoon. We started with Angela Burns and a powerful presentation about the disquiet about recommendations 9 and 2. Lynne Neagle then—truly another excellent performance from Lynne this week again about a step change in performance required here. This is not the first critical report about antipsychotic medication. I could take some of the 'accepts in principle' if this was the very first time that we'd had a report about this very topic. It's the latest in a series of reports that have said much the same thing—that we are failing our most vulnerable people in care homes. Something needs to be done about it, and that's why we can no longer accept things in principle. We have to do something about it. I hear what the Cabinet Secretary has said about that, but I was also hearing what the older people's commissioner said. We need a change—a step change—in culture and performance, and we do need to be addressing those nurse staffing levels in our care homes, and in our hospital wards, as Lynne Neagle was saying.
Another excellent contribution as well from Rhun about the whole issue about 'accept in principle', and I do think, as many have said, not just in this debate but in other debates, that that issue needs to be tackled in terms of accepting or rejecting.
Thank you also to Caroline Jones for her contribution, and also to Julie Morgan, emphasising again the point that I made at the start: there are tools, there are checklists out there to assess what is causing what we label as challenging behaviour. We need to look at why people react with dementia sometimes in the way that they do. We need to look at the person themselves, and there are various checklist tools that enable us to do that. One excellent example is the Swansea University adverse drug reaction profile that has already been alluded to by myself and by Julie Morgan, developed by Professor Sue Jordan's team in Swansea University.
Also, I thank Suzy Davies for an excellent contribution, actually, and also for stipulating the need for urgency. Because, as I've already said, and you said it as well, we have been here before, and the time is now for action, not about another report that is critical of current performance. So, there have been previous reports, the older people's commissioner has raised concerns on several occasions, and we have a legacy report from a previous health committee, as we've alluded to, all highlighting concerns about the inappropriate use of antipsychotic medication in care homes. It should never be the first resort.
I hope that, following today's debate, the Cabinet Secretary, as he has assured us, will give further consideration to the evidence gathered, both for this report and also further enunciated in oral contributions today, and also further consider the recommendations we have made in order to deliver the long-term solutions that are needed. Because this is about transforming care. It's not just about subduing people. This is about transforming the care of people with dementia in Wales. Our most vulnerable people in Wales deserve no less. Diolch yn fawr.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ac rwy'n hapus iawn i ymateb i'r ddadl. Bu'n ddadl ardderchog, ac rwy'n meddwl bod hynny'n dyst i ansawdd y cyfraniadau; yn amlwg, mae'n dyst i ansawdd y dystiolaeth a gymerasom dros y misoedd gan nifer o dystion—yn ysgrifenedig ac ar lafar—ac yn amlwg mae'n dyst i ansawdd y cymorth a gawn fel pwyllgor gan ein clercod a'n hymchwilwyr. Dyma ymdrech tîm yn wir, ac ymdrech tîm y gellir ei chyfiawnhau am ein bod yn ceisio mynd i'r afael ag anghyfiawnder tuag at grŵp o bobl agored iawn i niwed, fel y clywsom.
Hoffwn ddiolch i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet a'r Aelodau eraill am eu cyfraniadau y prynhawn yma. Dechreuasom gydag Angela Burns a chyflwyniad grymus am yr anesmwythyd ynglŷn ag argymhellion 9 a 2. Lynne Neagle wedyn—perfformiad arall gwirioneddol ardderchog gan Lynne yr wythnos hon eto am y newid perfformiad sylfaenol sydd ei angen yma. Nid dyma'r adroddiad beirniadol cyntaf ynglŷn â meddyginiaeth wrthseicotig. Gallwn gymryd rhai o'r argymhellion 'derbyn mewn egwyddor' pe bai hwn y tro cyntaf inni gael adroddiad am yr union bwnc hwn. Dyma'r diweddaraf mewn cyfres o adroddiadau sydd wedi dweud yr un peth fwy neu lai—ein bod yn gwneud cam â'n pobl fwyaf agored i niwed mewn cartrefi gofal. Mae angen gwneud rhywbeth am y peth, a dyna pam na allwn dderbyn pethau mewn egwyddor mwyach. Rhaid inni wneud rhywbeth yn ei gylch. Clywaf yr hyn a ddywedodd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet am hynny, ond clywais yr hyn a ddywedodd y comisiynydd pobl hŷn hefyd. Mae angen newid—newid sylweddol—mewn diwylliant a pherfformiad, ac mae angen inni fynd i'r afael â lefelau staff nyrsio yn ein cartrefi gofal, ac ar ein wardiau ysbyty, fel roedd Lynne Neagle yn dweud.
Cyfraniad ardderchog arall hefyd gan Rhun am yr holl fater ynghylch 'derbyn mewn egwyddor', a chredaf, fel y dywedodd sawl un, nid yn unig yn y ddadl hon ond mewn dadleuon eraill, fod angen ymdrin â'r mater yn nhermau derbyn neu wrthod.
Diolch hefyd i Caroline Jones am ei chyfraniad, a hefyd i Julie Morgan, a bwysleisiodd eto y pwynt a wneuthum ar y dechrau: mae yna offer ar gael, mae yna restrau gwirio ar gael i asesu beth sy'n achosi'r hyn a labelwn fel ymddygiad heriol. Mae angen inni edrych i weld pam y mae pobl â dementia yn adweithio yn y ffordd y maent yn ei wneud weithiau. Mae angen inni edrych ar yr unigolyn ei hun, ac mae yna offer rhestr wirio amrywiol sy'n ein galluogi i wneud hynny. Un enghraifft ragorol yw proffil adwaith niweidiol i gyffuriau Prifysgol Abertawe y cyfeiriwyd ato eisoes gennyf fi a chan Julie Morgan, ac a ddatblygwyd gan dîm yr Athro Sue Jordan ym Mhrifysgol Abertawe.
Hefyd, diolch i Suzy Davies am gyfraniad rhagorol, a hefyd am nodi'r angen am frys. Oherwydd, fel rwyf eisoes wedi dweud, ac rydych chi wedi'i ddweud hefyd, buom yma o'r blaen, ac yn awr yw'r amser i weithredu, nid i gael adroddiad arall i feirniadu perfformiad presennol. Felly, cafwyd adroddiadau blaenorol, mae'r comisiynydd pobl hŷn wedi mynegi pryderon ar sawl achlysur, ac mae gennym adroddiad etifeddiaeth gan bwyllgor iechyd blaenorol, fel rydym wedi sôn a phob un yn tynnu sylw at bryderon ynghylch y defnydd amhriodol o feddyginiaeth wrthseicotig mewn cartrefi gofal. Ni ddylai byth fod yn ddewis cyntaf.
Yn dilyn y ddadl heddiw, rwy'n gobeithio y bydd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, fel y mae wedi ein sicrhau, yn rhoi ystyriaeth bellach i'r dystiolaeth a gasglwyd ar gyfer yr adroddiad hwn a'r hyn a fynegwyd yn y cyfraniadau llafar heddiw, ac yn ystyried hefyd yr argymhellion a wnaed gennym er mwyn darparu'r atebion hirdymor sydd eu hangen. Oherwydd mae hyn yn ymwneud â thrawsnewid gofal. Nid ymwneud â chadw pobl dan reolaeth y mae. Mae'n ymwneud â thrawsnewid gofal pobl â dementia yng Nghymru. Nid yw ein pobl fwyaf agored i niwed yng Nghymru yn haeddu dim llai. Diolch yn fawr.
Thank you very much. The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? No. Therefore the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Y cynnig yw nodi adroddiad y pwyllgor. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Nac oes. Felly, derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Item 8 on the agenda is a debate on the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committees report, 'Enterprise Zones: Boldly going?' and I call on the committee Chair, Russell George, to move the motion.
Eitem 8 ar yr agenda yw dadl ar adroddiad Pwyllgor yr Economi, Seilwaith a Sgiliau, 'Ardaloedd Menter: Mynd Ymhell?' a galwaf ar Gadeirydd y pwyllgor, Russell George, i wneud y cynnig.
Cynnig NDM6768 Russell George
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:
Yn nodi adroddiad Pwyllgor yr Economi, Seilwaith a Sgiliau ar ei ymchwiliad, 'Ardaloedd Menter: Mynd ymhell?', a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 16 Mai 2018.
Motion NDM6768 Russell George
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
Notes the report of the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee on its inquiry, 'Enterprise Zones: Boldly going', which was laid in the Table Office on 16 May 2018.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. The committee Chair has just dropped all his papers on the floor in different order. Thankfully, the notes are numbered.
I move the motion this afternoon, Deputy Presiding Officer. In January and February of this year, the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee undertook a short inquiry into enterprise zones in Wales. Five years after the zones were established seemed a sensible time to take stock. Five years ago, we were told that enterprise zones would boost jobs and growth. Have they? Alas, the answer is not a simple 'yes' or 'no'. Our inquiry took evidence from six of the eight enterprise zone board chairs and from the Cabinet Secretary. Three members of the committee also travelled to Snowdonia and Anglesey to meet with the chairs of those boards.
The committee’s report makes 10 recommendations, of which the Welsh Government has accepted six outright, and four were accepted in principle—which seems to be a theme this afternoon to a number of committee reports where recommendations have been accepted in principle. The current enterprise zones policy in Wales began as a reaction to the UK Government’s March 2011 announcement of the creation of enterprise zones in England. The Welsh Government had created seven enterprise zones in Wales by January 2012, all of which stated objectives to create jobs and growth. The zones chosen by the Welsh Government reflected various approaches. Some, like Cardiff and Deeside, were chosen to exploit various economic strengths. Others, like Anglesey and Snowdonia, were intended to address significant local challenges.
Diolch ichi, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Mae Cadeirydd y pwyllgor newydd golli ei bapurau i gyd ar lawr mewn trefn wahanol. Diolch byth, mae'r nodiadau wedi'u rhifo.
Rwy'n cynnig y cynnig y prynhawn yma, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Ym mis Ionawr a mis Chwefror eleni, cynhaliodd Pwyllgor yr Economi, Seilwaith a Sgiliau ymchwiliad byr i'r ardaloedd menter yng Nghymru. Roedd pum mlynedd ar ôl sefydlu'r ardaloedd i'w gweld yn adeg synhwyrol ar gyfer pwyso a mesur. Bum mlynedd yn ôl, dywedwyd wrthym y byddai ardaloedd menter yn hybu swyddi a thwf. A ydynt wedi gwneud hynny? Yn anffodus, nid 'do' neu 'naddo' syml yw'r ateb. Clywodd ein hymchwiliad dystiolaeth gan chwech o gadeiryddion byrddau'r wyth ardal fenter a chan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Hefyd, teithiodd tri aelod o'r pwyllgor i Eryri ac Ynys Môn i gyfarfod â chadeiryddion y byrddau hynny.
Mae adroddiad y pwyllgor yn gwneud 10 o argymhellion, ac mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi derbyn chwech yn llwyr, a phedwar mewn egwyddor—sydd i'w gweld yn thema y prynhawn yma i nifer o adroddiadau pwyllgor lle y cafodd argymhellion eu derbyn mewn egwyddor. Dechreuodd y polisi ardaloedd menter presennol yng Nghymru fel ymateb i gyhoeddiad Llywodraeth y DU ym mis Mawrth 2011 ynglŷn â chreu ardaloedd menter yn Lloegr. Roedd Llywodraeth Cymru wedi creu saith ardal fenter yng Nghymru erbyn mis Ionawr 2012, a phob un yn datgan amcanion i greu swyddi a thwf. Roedd yr ardaloedd a ddewiswyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru yn adlewyrchu dulliau amrywiol o weithredu. Dewiswyd rhai, megis Caerdydd a Glannau Dyfrdwy, i fanteisio ar gryfderau economaidd amrywiol. Bwriadwyd i eraill, fel Ynys Môn ac Eryri, fynd i'r afael â heriau lleol sylweddol.
I think there is a legitimate question as to whether enterprise zones were actually needed in some of the areas selected by the Welsh Government, particularly in Cardiff, where the committee heard the zone was pushing at an open door in economic terms. In contrast, the committee heard from the chair of the Snowdonia enterprise zone board that the board has realised very early on that they were never likely to be able to deliver significant short-term impacts on growth or jobs. Instead, their focus shifted to exploring the opportunities for the long-term development of the zones, and the committee heard that a number of other zones were also in a similar position.
We felt that this change in focus for some of the zones was not widely communicated, and perhaps more importantly was not reflected in the performance indicators published by the Welsh Government initially at an all-Wales level. Building on the work of the fourth Assembly's Finance Committee and the Enterprise and Business Committee has pushed the Welsh Government to release detailed information on the performance of each zone as regards job creation—the stated objective, of course—along with detailed information on Welsh Government's expenditure on each zone. The committee welcomed the Cabinet Secretary's decision to release the most detailed information of this nature to date, albeit after the final evidence session.
Our report states:
'Over the last five or six years this has been a case study in how a drip-feed approach to the sharing of information with Assembly Members and Committees can prevent clear and objective scrutiny from taking place, while also creating the impression of under-performance and inefficiency. It should not be this difficult, or take this long, for the Welsh Government to publish information that allows the performance and value for money of one of its flagship economic policies to be understood properly and scrutinised effectively. The Committee hopes that the Welsh Government takes this constructive criticism on board in the design and delivery of future policies.'
As a committee we agree that there is merit in a regional approach to economic development, and that a focus on supporting deprived areas is a good thing, and should continue. However, we recommended that the Welsh Government should ensure that, for each individual region and local area, the aims of any future regional approaches to economic development are clear and realistic, sufficiently detailed to allow an understanding of the challenges faced, and accompanied by detailed, open, transparent and appropriate monitoring data. This recommendation 6, along with two others also aimed at increasing transparency and improving the availability of monitoring data, was accepted in principle by the Welsh Government, and it remains to be seen how the Welsh Government will implement these recommendations in practice.
The committee recognised the commitment, drive and professionalism of all involved in the enterprise zone boards. Each of the chairs were powerful and passionate advocates for their areas. The committee did feel, though, that on the whole the enterprise zone concept has not proved itself to date in Wales. The evidence we heard suggests that the zones that have achieved against the Welsh Government's stated aims were those that were already in the best position to do so—for example, Cardiff Central and Deeside—and that specific enterprise zone initiatives only played a minor part in their success.
Other zones that started from a very different place found the incentives to be of some benefit. The committee recognised the fact that these zones, such as Anglesey, Snowdonia and Ebbw Vale, are still very much on a journey, and have been focused on putting the building blocks in place for the longer term. We concluded that the original aims of the enterprise zone policy to create jobs and growth have not been achieved across the board. At the same time, we acknowledged that these were probably unrealistic to begin with, given the varying starting points of each enterprise zone.
The Cabinet Secretary used his appearance before the committee to announce a series of changes to the way that enterprise zones will operate. He mapped a future, which we support in part, but there are areas where we believe he should reconsider. The proposed merger of the Anglesey and Snowdonia enterprise zones has a certain appeal. Both depend on nuclear power developments outside of the Welsh Government's direct control and both are located in north Wales. However, the committee is concerned that this merger risks losing the specific focus on the very different challenges each area faces. Another way forward is possible.
In response, the Cabinet Secretary has suggested it is a matter of timing. I hope that this debate will clarify what exactly that means. I’m not convinced that there will ever be a right time for this merger. It seems to me that allowing both to continue, at least in the short term, might allow both boards to achieve their objectives in a clearer and more effective way. For the Port Talbot enterprise zone, our review has come too soon to be meaningful. For them, we hope being part of this process has focused minds on how they report their successes and ambitions as they develop their plans. I look forward to a good debate this afternoon amongst Members and look forward to the Cabinet Secretary’s response to our report today.
Credaf fod yna gwestiwn dilys yn codi ynglŷn ag a oedd angen ardaloedd menter mewn rhai o'r ardaloedd a ddewiswyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru, yn enwedig Caerdydd, lle y clywodd y pwyllgor fod yr ardal yn gwthio yn erbyn drws agored mewn termau economaidd. Ar y llaw arall, clywodd y pwyllgor gan gadeirydd bwrdd ardal fenter Eryri fod y bwrdd wedi sylweddoli'n fuan iawn eu bod yn annhebygol iawn o allu cyflawni effeithiau tymor byr sylweddol ar dwf neu swyddi. Yn lle hynny, newidiodd eu ffocws i ymchwilio i'r cyfleoedd ar gyfer datblygu'r ardaloedd yn hirdymor, a chlywodd y pwyllgor fod nifer o ardaloedd eraill mewn sefyllfa debyg hefyd.
Roeddem yn teimlo nad oedd y newid yn y ffocws i rai o'r ardaloedd yn cael ei gyfleu'n eang, ac efallai'n fwy pwysig, ni châi ei adlewyrchu yn y dangosyddion perfformiad a gyhoeddwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru ar y cychwyn ar lefel Cymru gyfan. Mae adeiladu ar waith y Pwyllgor Cyllid a Phwyllgor Menter a Busnes y pedwerydd Cynulliad wedi gwthio Llywodraeth Cymru i ryddhau gwybodaeth fanwl ar berfformiad pob ardal o ran creu swyddi—yr amcan a nodwyd, wrth gwrs—ynghyd â gwybodaeth fanwl ar wariant Llywodraeth Cymru ar bob ardal. Croesawodd y pwyllgor benderfyniad Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet i ryddhau'r wybodaeth fwyaf manwl o'r natur hon hyd yn hyn, er bod hynny ar ôl y sesiwn dystiolaeth olaf.
Mae ein hadroddiad yn datgan:
'Dyma enghraifft, dros y pump neu’r chwe blynedd diwethaf, o’r modd y gall rhannu gwybodaeth yn dameidiog ac yn achlysurol gydag Aelodau’r Cynulliad a’r Pwyllgorau atal proses graffu glir a gwrthrychol rhag digwydd, a hefyd creu argraff o dangyflawni ac aneffeithlonrwydd. Ni ddylai fod mor anodd â hyn, na chymryd cymaint o amser, i Lywodraeth Cymru gyhoeddi gwybodaeth er mwyn inni allu deall yn iawn berfformiad a gwerth am arian un o’i pholisïau economaidd blaenllaw, a chraffu’n briodol arno. Mae’r Pwyllgor yn gobeithio y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn rhoi sylw dyledus i’r feirniadaeth adeiladol hon wrth lunio a gweithredu polisïau yn y dyfodol.'
Fel pwyllgor, cytunwn fod rhinwedd yn y dull rhanbarthol o gyflawni datblygu economaidd, a bod y pwyslais ar gynorthwyo ardaloedd difreintiedig yn beth da, a dylai barhau. Fodd bynnag, roeddem yn argymell y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru sicrhau, ar gyfer pob rhanbarth ac ardal leol unigol, fod nodau unrhyw ddulliau rhanbarthol o gyflawni datblygu economaidd yn y dyfodol yn glir ac yn realistig, yn ddigon manwl i ganiatáu dealltwriaeth o'r heriau a wynebir, yn ogystal â data monitro manwl, agored, tryloyw a phriodol. Cafodd argymhelliad 6, ynghyd â dau arall a oedd hefyd â'r nod o gynyddu tryloywder a gwella argaeledd data monitro, eu derbyn mewn egwyddor gan Lywodraeth Cymru, a rhaid aros i weld sut y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithredu'r argymhellion hyn yn ymarferol.
Roedd y pwyllgor yn cydnabod ymrwymiad, ysgogiad a phroffesiynoldeb pawb a oedd yn gysylltiedig â byrddau'r ardaloedd menter. Roedd pob un o'r cadeiryddion yn hyrwyddo'u hardaloedd yn bwerus ac yn angerddol. Fodd bynnag, teimlai'r pwyllgor ar y cyfan nad yw'r cysyniad o ardal fenter wedi profi ei hun hyd yma yng Nghymru. Mae'r dystiolaeth a glywsom yn awgrymu mai'r ardaloedd sydd wedi cyflawni yn erbyn nodau datganedig Llywodraeth Cymru oedd y rhai a oedd eisoes yn y sefyllfa orau i wneud hynny—er enghraifft, Canol Caerdydd a Glannau Dyfrdwy—ac nad oedd mentrau ardaloedd menter penodol ond wedi chwarae rhan fach yn eu llwyddiant.
Gwelodd ardaloedd eraill a ddechreuodd o fan gwahanol iawn fod y cymhellion o ryw fudd. Cydnabu'r pwyllgor fod yr ardaloedd hyn, megis Ynys Môn, Eryri a Glynebwy, yn dal i fod ar daith, ac rydym wedi canolbwyntio ar roi'r blociau adeiladu yn eu lle ar gyfer y tymor hwy. Daethom i'r casgliad nad yw amcanion gwreiddiol y polisi ardaloedd menter i greu swyddi a thwf wedi eu cyflawni ym mhobman. Ar yr un pryd, roeddem yn cydnabod bod y rhain yn afrealistig ar y cychwyn yn ôl pob tebyg, o ystyried mannau cychwyn amrywiol pob ardal fenter.
Defnyddiodd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ei ymddangosiad gerbron y pwyllgor i gyhoeddi cyfres o newidiadau i'r ffordd y bydd yr ardaloedd menter yn gweithredu. Aeth ati i fapio dyfodol, ac rydym yn cefnogi hynny'n rhannol, ond ceir ardaloedd lle y credwn y dylai ailystyried. Mae rhywfaint o apêl i uno arfaethedig ardaloedd menter Ynys Môn ac Eryri. Mae'r ddwy'n dibynnu ar ddatblygiadau niwclear y tu allan i reolaeth uniongyrchol Llywodraeth Cymru ac mae'r ddwy wedi'u lleoli yng ngogledd Cymru. Fodd bynnag, mae'r pwyllgor yn pryderu bod perygl y bydd yr uno yn colli'r ffocws penodol ar yr heriau gwahanol iawn y mae pob ardal yn eu hwynebu. Mae ffordd arall ymlaen yn bosibl.
Yn ei ymateb, awgrymodd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ei fod yn fater o amseru. Gobeithiaf y bydd y ddadl hon yn egluro beth yn union y mae hynny'n ei olygu. Nid wyf yn argyhoeddedig y bydd yna byth amser cywir ar gyfer yr uno hwn. Mae'n ymddangos i mi y gallai gadael i'r ddwy barhau, yn y tymor byr o leiaf, ganiatáu i'r ddau fwrdd gyflawni eu hamcanion mewn ffordd gliriach a mwy effeithiol. Ar gyfer ardal fenter Port Talbot, mae ein hadolygiad wedi dod yn rhy fuan i fod yn ystyrlon. Iddynt hwy, rydym yn gobeithio bod cymryd rhan yn y broses hon wedi canolbwyntio meddyliau ar sut y maent yn adrodd ar eu llwyddiannau a'u huchelgeisiau wrth iddynt ddatblygu eu cynlluniau. Edrychaf ymlaen at ddadl dda y prynhawn yma ymhlith yr Aelodau ac edrychaf ymlaen at ymateb Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet i'n hadroddiad heddiw.
Mae'n bleser i ddilyn Cadeirydd y pwyllgor. Mae'n anodd i wybod beth i ddweud ynglŷn â'r polisi yma, achos mae'n bolisi oedd ag amcanion cymysg mewn ardaloedd cymysg, ac yn sicr mae'r canlyniadau wedi bod yn gymysg iawn, fel roedd y Cadeirydd yn cyfeirio atyn nhw. At ei gilydd, fe allwn ni wahaniaethu rhwng ardaloedd menter a oedd wedi cael eu creu fel canlyniad i gyfleoedd penodol, ac wedyn ardaloedd menter a oedd wedi cael eu creu fel adwaith i grisis economaidd. Rhaid dweud, ar gyfer y saith ardal, ni allwn ni ddim dweud gydag unrhyw sicrwydd fod y polisi yma wedi llwyddo yn un o'r ddwy achos yna, a dweud y gwir. Yn yr achosion fel Canol Caerdydd, mae'n anodd iawn, er bod y canlyniadau o ran creu swyddi ac yn y blaen yn well—mae'n anodd iawn i briodoli hynny i'r ardaloedd menter. Wedyn, wrth gwrs, yn yr ardaloedd eraill, mae'r ffigurau yn siarad drostyn nhw eu hunain.
Beth sydd yn wir—ac mae'r Cadeirydd yn iawn yn hynny o beth—yw bod yr ardaloedd menter, fel unrhyw ymyriad economaidd lleol sydd yn esgor ar greu partneriaethau, yn medru creu brwdfrydedd a momentwm, ac fe welsom ni hynny yn ein hymweliad ni, er enghraifft, i ardal menter Ynys Môn. Ond, mae'n rhaid gofyn y cwestiwn ai'r polisi yma a'r incentives ac yn y blaen sy'n gysylltiedig ag ardaloedd menter sydd wedi creu hynny, neu a fyddai modd adlewyrchu neu greu yr un fath o effaith a momentwm economaidd lleol trwy ddulliau eraill.
Rhaid dweud, yr hyn rwy'n credu sy'n glir oedd bod yr ardaloedd menter fel polisi wedi cael eu creu bron â bod yn adwaith i'r datblygiad dros y ffin yn Lloegr, a chreu y partneriaethau economaidd lleol oedd yn bodoli yn bobman. Rhaid dweud, rwy'n credu ein bod ni wedi gweld, dros flynyddoedd maith nawr, methiant yng Nghymru i ddod lan â pholisi economaidd gofodol, naill ai ar y lefel leol neu ar y lefel rhanbarthol. Rwy'n credu ein bod ni'n dal i ymrafael â hynny, er bod yna bwyslais mawr yn strategaeth economaidd newydd y Llywodraeth ar ranbarthedd, ar bolisi gofodol. Nid wyf yn credu ein bod ni wedi ffeindio'r cyfrwng cywir ar gyfer hynny, ac, wrth gwrs, mae'r newidiadau fydd yna ar gyfer yr ardaloedd menter sydd wedi cael eu cyhoeddi yn adlewyrchu hynny. Wrth edrych ymlaen, rydw i'n credu mai un o'r prif wersi ydy i ffocysu ar incentives penodol ar gyfer yr ardaloedd—ar gyfer maint yr ardaloedd menter.
It’s a great pleasure to follow the Chair of the committee. It’s difficult to know what to say about this policy, because it’s a policy that had mixed objectives in mixed areas, and the results have also been very mixed, as the Chair mentioned. Altogether, we could differentiate between the enterprise zones that were created as a result of specific opportunities, and then those enterprise zones that were created as a reaction to an economic crisis. One can’t say, about the seven enterprise zones, of course, with any certainty, that this policy has succeeded in either of those two cases that I mentioned. In those cases such as Cardiff Central, it’s very difficult, even though the results, in terms of job creation and so on, are better. It’s very difficult to attribute that to the enterprise zones. And then, of course, in those other zones, well, the figures speak for themselves.
What’s true to say, of course—and the Chair is right in that regard—is that the enterprise zones, as with any local economic intervention that leads to the creation of partnerships, can then generate enthusiasm and momentum, and we did see that in our visit to the enterprise zone on Anglesey. But we do have to ask the question whether it’s the policy itself and the incentives, and so on, that are associated with enterprise zones that have created that, or would it be possible to create the same kind of effect and local economic momentum through other means.
We have to say that what is clear is that the enterprise zones as a policy had been created almost as a reaction to developments over the border in England and creating the local economic partnerships that existed everywhere. I do believe that we have seen, over several years now, a failure in Wales to come up with a spatial economic policy, either on the local level or on the regional level. And I think that we’re still getting to grips with that, even though there has been a major emphasis in the new economic strategy of the Government on spatial policy, on regional policy. I don’t think we’ve found the right medium for that, and, of course, the changes with regard to the enterprise zones that have been announced do reflect that. In looking forward, I think that one of the major lessons is to focus on specific incentives for zones—for the size of the enterprise zones.
Thinking particularly about a post-Brexit scenario, it was very interesting the evidence that we heard from the chair of the Haven Waterway zone talking about the potential with regard to free ports and free economic zones, because that, actually, is a policy idea where there is strong evidence globally that it works. It's much more specific than the broad-brush enterprise zone idea. Particularly, whatever happens over the next few days and weeks, if we do end up in a crash-out 'no deal' situation, then, actually, free ports could be a very, very important tool for many parts of Wales, some of which are covered by the enterprise zones. It would mitigate some of the worst economic damage that we could face.
So, I would urge the Welsh Government to look proactively at this. Several mayors of the north of England have developed detailed proposals for free ports. They're lobbying the UK Government very actively, and the Cabinet Secretary has said in evidence to the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee, if there was a designation by the UK Government, then Wales should get its fair share. We need to do better than that. We need to actually be developing the business cases now. And, of course, free ports could include airports—it could include Cardiff Airport, it could include Airbus, of course, where we could designate the Airbus site in Broughton as having its own free port. It has the airport, of course, which it uses to transport its wings to Toulouse. Designating the Airbus site as a free port could actually be a means of dealing with any economic damage as a result of policies from the UK Government.
Gan feddwl yn benodol am senario ôl-Brexit, roedd y dystiolaeth a glywsom gan gadeirydd ardal fenter Dyfrffordd y Ddau Gleddau a soniai am y potensial o borthladdoedd rhydd ac ardaloedd economaidd rhydd yn ddiddorol iawn, oherwydd, mewn gwirionedd, dyna syniad polisi lle y ceir tystiolaeth gref yn fyd-eang ei fod yn gweithio. Mae'n llawer mwy penodol na'r syniad bras o ardal fenter. Yn arbennig, beth bynnag sy'n digwydd dros yr ychydig ddyddiau ac wythnosau nesaf, os cawn ein hunain mewn sefyllfa 'dim bargen' yn y pen draw, gallai porthladdoedd rhydd fod yn offeryn pwysig iawn i lawer o rannau o Gymru, gyda rhai ohonynt yn perthyn i'r ardaloedd menter. Byddai'n lliniaru rhywfaint o'r difrod economaidd gwaethaf a allai ein hwynebu.
Felly, buaswn yn annog Llywodraeth Cymru i edrych yn rhagweithiol ar hyn. Mae sawl un o feiri gogledd Lloegr wedi datblygu cynigion manwl ar gyfer porthladdoedd rhydd. Maent yn lobïo Llywodraeth y DU yn weithredol iawn, ac mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet wedi dweud mewn tystiolaeth i'r Pwyllgor Materion Allanol a Deddfwriaeth Ychwanegol, pe ceid dynodiad gan Lywodraeth y DU, dylai Cymru gael ei chyfran deg. Mae angen inni wneud yn well na hynny. Mae angen inni fod yn datblygu'r achosion busnes yn awr. Ac wrth gwrs, gallai porthladdoedd rhydd gynnwys meysydd awyr—gallai gynnwys Maes Awyr Caerdydd, gallai gynnwys Airbus, wrth gwrs, lle y gallem ddynodi bod gan safle Airbus ym Mrychdyn ei borthladd rhydd ei hun. Mae ganddo'r maes awyr, wrth gwrs, ac mae'n ei ddefnyddio i gludo ei adenydd i Toulouse. Gallai dynodi'r safle Airbus fel porthladd rhydd fod yn ffordd o ymdrin ag unrhyw niwed economaidd o ganlyniad i bolisïau gan Lywodraeth y DU.
I'm pleased to contribute to the debate today. I'd also like to thank my committee colleagues and the support team for putting together what I think is an interesting and useful report. Contrary to what the title might suggest, the inquiry was a chance to revisit Wales's eight enterprise zones, rather than going where no-one had been before. By doing so, we were able to assess their progress to date and, I hope, help clarify the road ahead.
I'm going to limit my points this afternoon to the Haven Waterway project, and the headline figures are hugely encouraging, with more than 1,000 jobs created, safeguarded or supported through the support that's been given, and that is excellent news. As the Cabinet Secretary confirmed to us, the Haven Waterway board will continue for a further three years, through to July 2021, and it's that sort of stability that enables that sort of strategic planning underpinning the success of the enterprise zone model of economic development.
When the chair of the Haven Waterway enterprise zone gave evidence to us in January, he asked for specific work to look at—and I'm going to repeat it—the potential of free ports post Brexit. That was also the recommendation of the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee, when it concluded its work on ports in the Brexit inquiry of last summer. And I know it's been mentioned already, but I'm going to reiterate that.
The Cabinet Secretary has been proactive, establishing a dedicated ports team with Government, and in his evidence to the committee he did confirm that he had commissioned specific work to be conducted with regard to the potential of free ports, and a distinctive offer for a post-Brexit Wales. I wonder if he's able to give us any update on that here today.
If I move on to another development, the new energy demonstration zone—the Waterstone site has been sold and the company is seeking planning permission to turn that into a centre of renewable energy excellence, and I'm sure it's worthy of some serious consideration. It has potential for jobs, training and inward investment to west Wales, but also the wider economy. And in light of the Swansea tidal lagoon fiasco, I think it's vital that Wales and the Welsh Government supports home-grown, green energy projects like that, as, clearly, we cannot entrust those to the Tory Westminster Government.
Rwy'n falch o gyfrannu at y ddadl heddiw. Hoffwn hefyd ddiolch i fy nghyd-aelodau o'r pwyllgor a'r tîm cymorth am lunio'r hyn y credaf ei fod yn adroddiad diddorol a defnyddiol. Yn groes i'r hyn y mae'r pennawd yn ei awgrymu o bosibl, roedd yr ymchwiliad yn gyfle i ailedrych ar wyth ardal fenter Cymru, yn hytrach na mynd i ble nad oedd unrhyw un wedi bod o'r blaen. Drwy wneud hynny, roeddem yn gallu asesu eu cynnydd hyd yma a helpu i egluro'r ffordd ymlaen, rwy'n gobeithio.
Rwyf am gyfyngu fy mhwyntiau y prynhawn yma i brosiect Dyfrffordd y Ddau Gleddau, ac mae'r prif ffigurau yn hynod o galonogol, gyda mwy na 1,000 o swyddi wedi'u creu, eu diogelu neu eu cefnogi drwy'r cymorth a roddwyd, ac mae hynny'n newyddion rhagorol. Fel y mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet wedi cadarnhau i ni, bydd bwrdd Dyfrffordd y Ddau Gleddau yn parhau am dair blynedd arall, hyd at fis Gorffennaf 2021, a'r math hwnnw o sefydlogrwydd sy'n galluogi'r math o gynllunio strategol sy'n sail i lwyddiant y model ardal fenter o ddatblygu economaidd.
Pan roddodd cadeirydd ardal fenter Dyfrffordd y Ddau Gleddau dystiolaeth i ni ym mis Ionawr, gofynnodd am waith penodol—ac rwy'n mynd i'w ailadrodd—i edrych ar botensial porthladdoedd rhydd ar ôl Brexit. Dyna oedd argymhelliad y Pwyllgor Materion Allanol a Deddfwriaeth Ychwanegol hefyd, pan ddaeth i ben â'i waith ar borthladdoedd yn yr ymchwiliad Brexit yr haf diwethaf. A gwn ei fod wedi'i grybwyll eisoes, ond rwyf am ailadrodd hynny.
Mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet wedi mynd ati'n rhagweithiol i sefydlu tîm porthladdoedd dynodedig gyda'r Llywodraeth, ac yn ei dystiolaeth i'r pwyllgor cadarnhaodd ei fod wedi comisiynu gwaith penodol mewn perthynas â photensial porthladdoedd rhydd, a chynnig unigryw ar gyfer Cymru ar ôl Brexit. Tybed a yw'n gallu rhoi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am hynny yma heddiw.
Os caf symud ymlaen at ddatblygiad arall, y parth arddangos ynni newydd—gwerthwyd safle Waterstone ac mae'r cwmni'n ceisio caniatâd cynllunio i'w droi'n ganolfan rhagoriaeth ynni adnewyddadwy, ac rwy'n siŵr ei fod yn deilwng o ystyriaeth ddifrifol. Mae ganddo botensial ar gyfer swyddi, hyfforddiant a mewnfuddsoddiad i orllewin Cymru, ond hefyd i'r economi ehangach. Ac yn sgil ffiasgo morlyn llanw Abertawe, credaf ei bod yn hanfodol fod Cymru a Llywodraeth Cymru yn cefnogi prosiectau ynni gwyrdd o'r fath a ddatblygwyd yng Nghymru, prosiectau na allwn eu hymddiried i'r Llywodraeth Dorïaidd yn San Steffan, mae'n amlwg.
One of the most interesting factors to come out of the committee's scrutiny of enterprise zones was the disparity between them. Deeside and Cardiff enterprise zones were already well developed in their respective sectors, whilst Anglesey, Snowdonia and Ebbw Vale were effectively starting from scratch, with Port Talbot coming late to the fray. We, therefore have to be very guarded in our analysis of the success of one zone against another. What other factor we have to take into account is the relative crudity of the figures given, actually, in the first instance, for the cost per job created. For instance, Ebbw Vale, it was suggested, received £94 million to achieve just 390 jobs, or £241,000 for each job. These figures are very misleading as, in the Government's analysis of where money was allocated in the enterprise zone, the figure for transport for Ebbw Vale enterprise zone was £88 million. As this was clearly referring to the extension of the railway line from the festival park site to the town centre, it should therefore be viewed as an overall infrastructure improvement for the whole region, not for the enterprise zone itself. So, contrasting this figure for cost per job created or safeguarded as against, say, Deeside, where the cost was just £4,822, is very misleading. So, could the Cabinet Secretary outline how he proposes to analyse the effectiveness of EZs in the future?
It became apparent to the committee, and, indeed, to those who made up the enterprise boards, that the original aims of the zones would have to be considerably amended. The boards of most of the zones realised their roles would become enablers to economic growth rather than that of direct job creation. In many instances, they put in place the infrastructure, both physical and spatial, to allow this growth to take place. Many of them referred to the time factor involved in bringing some of these projects to fruition. Mark Langshaw, of the Ebbw Vale enterprise zone board, which the Government Secretary says will close this year, said that it had many projects in the pipeline and expressed his concern as to who would take these to completion. So, perhaps the Cabinet Secretary could inform us as to how these projects, and, indeed, the general work undertaken by the enterprise zones that are to close, will be safeguarded going forward.
If we ask ourselves, 'Have the enterprise zones been a success?', it is difficult to extrapolate a firm answer because of the disparate elements involved in the zones and their overall objectives. Perhaps one of the real positives has been the input from the boards themselves, who seem to have worked well with many stakeholders and created very positive networks and initiatives on a local basis.
To conclude, I think we all have to consider their achievement against the question, 'What would have happened if they had not been created?' There are instances of those, especially with those close to the English border, that would have been disadvantaged if they had not been made enterprise zones. Deeside and, to a certain extent, Ebbw Vale are such examples. However, we must recognise that the enterprise zones up to the 2000s were very different projects to those of the 1980s, and therefore their achievements or failures must be viewed from a very different perspective. So, is the Cabinet Secretary still convinced that enterprise zones that will be remaining will still have a part to play in the economic development of Wales, and is he willing to supply them with the resource that they need in order to deliver on what should now be their clearly defined goals?
Un o'r ffactorau mwyaf diddorol i ddeillio o waith craffu'r pwyllgor ar yr ardaloedd menter oedd y gwahaniaeth rhyngddynt. Roedd ardal fenter Glannau Dyfrdwy ac ardal fenter Caerdydd wedi datblygu'n dda eisoes yn eu sectorau eu hunain, tra bod Ynys Môn, Eryri a Glynebwy yn dechrau o'r dechrau i bob pwrpas, gyda Phort Talbot yn dod iddi'n hwyr yn y dydd. Felly rhaid inni fod yn ochelgar iawn yn ein dadansoddiad o lwyddiant un ardal yn erbyn y llall. Ffactor arall sy'n rhaid inni ei ystyried yw diffyg manylder cymharol y ffigurau a roddwyd yn y lle cyntaf, ar gyfer y gost fesul swydd a grëwyd. Er enghraifft, awgrymwyd bod Glynebwy wedi derbyn £94 miliwn i sicrhau 390 o swyddi'n unig, neu £241,000 ar gyfer pob swydd. Mae'r ffigurau hyn yn gamarweiniol iawn, gan fod dadansoddiad y Llywodraeth o ble y dyrannwyd arian yn yr ardal fenter, yn rhoi ffigur o £88 miliwn ar gyfer trafnidiaeth i ardal fenter Glynebwy. Gan mai cyfeirio at ymestyn y rheilffordd o safle parc yr ŵyl i ganol y dref oedd hwn yn ei wneud, dylid ei ystyried felly fel gwelliant seilwaith cyffredinol ar gyfer y rhanbarth cyfan, nid ar gyfer yr ardal fenter ei hun. Felly, mae'n gamarweiniol iawn inni gyferbynnu'r ffigur hwn ar gyfer y gost fesul swydd a grëwyd neu a ddiogelwyd â Glannau Dyfrdwy, dyweder, lle'r oedd y gost yn ddim ond £4,822. Felly, a allai Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet amlinellu sut y mae'n bwriadu dadansoddi effeithiolrwydd ardaloedd menter yn y dyfodol?
Daeth yn amlwg i'r pwyllgor, ac yn wir i aelodau'r byrddau menter, y byddai'n rhaid diwygio nodau gwreiddiol yr ardaloedd yn sylweddol. Sylweddolodd byrddau'r rhan fwyaf o'r ardaloedd y byddai eu rolau'n tyfu i fod yn alluogwyr twf economaidd yn hytrach na chreu swyddi uniongyrchol. Mewn llawer o achosion, maent wedi gosod y seilwaith ffisegol a gofodol ar gyfer caniatáu i'r twf hwn ddigwydd. Cyfeiriodd llawer ohonynt at y ffactor amser sydd ynghlwm wrth sicrhau bod rhai o'r prosiectau hyn yn dwyn ffrwyth. Dywedodd Mark Langshaw, o fwrdd ardal fenter Glynebwy, y dywed Ysgrifennydd y Llywodraeth y bydd yn cau eleni, fod ganddynt nifer o brosiectau yn yr arfaeth a mynegodd ei bryder ynglŷn â phwy fyddai'n cyflawni'r rhain. Felly, efallai y gallai Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ein hysbysu sut y caiff y prosiectau hyn, ac yn wir y gwaith cyffredinol a wnaed gan yr ardaloedd menter sydd i gau, eu diogelu yn y dyfodol.
Os gofynnwn i ni ein hunain, 'A yw'r ardaloedd menter wedi bod yn llwyddiant?', mae'n anodd dod i gasgliad cadarn oherwydd y gwahanol elfennau sy'n gysylltiedig â'r ardaloedd a'u hamcanion cyffredinol. Efallai mai un o'r pethau cadarnhaol go iawn yw'r mewnbwn a gafwyd gan y byrddau eu hunain, sydd i'w gweld wedi gweithio'n dda gyda llawer o randdeiliaid ac wedi creu rhwydweithiau a mentrau cadarnhaol iawn ar sail leol.
I gloi, credaf fod yn rhaid i bawb ohonom ystyried eu cyflawniad yn erbyn y cwestiwn, 'Beth fyddai wedi digwydd pe na baent wedi'u creu?' Mae yna enghreifftiau o rai, yn enwedig rhai sy'n agos at y ffin â Lloegr, a fyddai wedi bod dan anfantais pe na baent wedi'u gwneud yn ardaloedd menter. Mae Glannau Dyfrdwy, a Glynebwy i ryw raddau, yn enghreifftiau o'r fath. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni gydnabod bod yr ardaloedd menter hyd at y 2000au yn brosiectau gwahanol iawn i'r rhai yn yr 1980au, ac felly rhaid ystyried eu cyflawniadau neu eu methiannau o bersbectif gwahanol iawn. Felly, a yw Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn dal i fod yn argyhoeddedig fod gan yr ardaloedd menter a fydd yn aros ran i'w chwarae o hyd yn natblygiad economaidd Cymru, ac a yw'n fodlon rhoi'r adnoddau sydd eu hangen arnynt er mwyn cyflawni'r hyn a ddylai fod yn nodau diffiniedig eglur ganddynt bellach?
As our report of this states, there is little evidence to show that Wales's eight enterprise zones have been transformational in terms of job creation, but different outcomes are inevitable because each has faced different challenges and different local circumstances. The Cabinet Secretary's conduct when he attended committee for his final scrutiny session with us on this inquiry, and announced his intention to reconfigure enterprise zones, including to merge the Anglesey and Snowdonia boards, before we had questioned him and before he knew our evidence-based recommendations, may unfortunately be considered disrespectful to the committee. Referring to the Star Trek analogy in the title of our report, this was not to boldly go where no man has gone before, but at least he appears to have partially backtracked on this now.
In accepting our recommendation 2, he describes excellent progress in the availability of modern commercial floor space. I therefore encourage him to reread our report and note that the witness statements that are a current theme among enterprise zone chairs was the lack of available property for businesses and that there is a lack of modern floor space across Wales.
I hope his statement, that he will be seeking advice from the Development Bank of Wales to ascertain the potential for a commercial property fund, will address the evidence in our report that there is a shortage of units across the board, and that across the whole of Wales, there are perhaps, quote,
'only two or three vacant industrial buildings, and apart from 1 square mile of our capital city, there is no speculative development to note anywhere.'
It is regrettable that the Cabinet Secretary has only accepted in principle our recommendations that the Welsh Government should return to annual reporting of the enterprise zones with clear data provided for each zone, and that it should make its priorities for each of the enterprise zones explicit, publishing clear annual targets.
The Cabinet Secretary's acceptance in principle of our recommendation that the Welsh Government should reconsider its proposed merger of the Anglesey and Snowdonia boards is at least an improvement on his previous position. He justifies this by stating that he's taken advice from the chairs of the Anglesey and Snowdonia enterprise zone advisory boards, and, together with his officials, will consider the appropriateness and timing of the merger of the two boards further. Well, the week prior to his statement to committee that he intended to merge these two boards, I'd chaired the committee in north-west Wales when we took evidence from each of these boards. It's a shame that he had not also taken this evidence before announcing his premature intention to merge them.
In Trawsfynydd, we heard that, alongside the Snowdonia board's progress with the Snowdonia Aerospace Centre at Llanbedr, it was responsible for mitigating the progressive reduction in local employment at the former Trawsfynydd nuclear power station. On a positive note, we also heard that the site was a candidate to host future UK small modular reactor development. The board emphasised strongly to us its need to remain in existence, and independent from neighbouring Anglesey, although it would retain and develop its strong links with developments on Anglesey. The UK Government's launch of its new £200 million nuclear sector deal at Trawsfynydd a fortnight ago reinforced the importance of this, with Trawsfynydd tipped as a front-runner for the development of advanced modular reactors, sharing up to £44 million for research and development, and Menai Science Park on Anglesey the preferred location for a £40 million thermal hydraulics facility. When we met the Anglesey board, they also emphasised their need to remain independent so that they may take forward their work on the Morlais west Anglesey tidal demonstration zone, on the Holyhead port expansion, and on the new nuclear power station at Wylfa Newydd.
A report commissioned by the UK Government published in May 2018 confirms the potential significant economic benefits of tidal stream energy. Anglesey can be at the centre of global leadership in tidal power, and the north Wales growth bid includes funding for Morlais. We also heard last month that the UK Government will enter into formal negotiations with Hitachi on the development and construction of a new nuclear power station at Wylfa on Anglesey. And as the Anglesey enterprise zone chairman, Neil Rowlands, said to both the Cabinet Secretary and me,
'The board is made up of predominantly Anglesey people, is of an extremely high calibre and directly linked. It is imperative that the Anglesey enterprise zone board should continue.'
Diolch yn fawr.
Fel y mae ein hadroddiad ar hyn yn nodi, ychydig o dystiolaeth a geir i ddangos bod wyth ardal fenter Cymru wedi bod yn drawsnewidiol o ran creu swyddi, ond mae gwahanol ganlyniadau'n anochel oherwydd mae pob un wedi wynebu heriau gwahanol ac amgylchiadau lleol gwahanol. Mae'n bosibl y gellid ystyried ymddygiad Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet pan fynychodd y pwyllgor ar gyfer ei sesiwn graffu derfynol gyda ni ar yr ymchwiliad hwn, a chyhoeddi ei fwriad i ad-drefnu ardaloedd menter, gan gynnwys uno byrddau Eryri a Môn cyn i ni ei holi a chyn ei fod yn gwybod am ein hargymhellion seiliedig ar dystiolaeth, yn amharchus i'r pwyllgor, yn anffodus. Gan gyfeirio at y gyfatebiaeth â Star Trek yn nheitl Saesneg ein hadroddiad, nid camu'n eofn i fannau lle nad aeth dyn o'r blaen oedd hyn, ond o leiaf mae'n ymddangos ei fod wedi ailfeddwl am yr ad-drefnu yn rhannol bellach.
Wrth dderbyn ein argymhelliad 2, mae'n disgrifio cynnydd rhagorol yn argaeledd gofod llawr masnachol modern. Felly rwy'n ei annog i ailddarllen ein hadroddiad a nodi bod y datganiadau gan dystion yn dweud mai thema gyfredol ymhlith cadeiryddion ardaloedd menter oedd diffyg argaeledd eiddo ar gyfer busnesau a bod yna brinder gofod llawr modern ledled Cymru.
Rwy'n gobeithio y bydd ei ddatganiad y bydd yn gofyn am gyngor gan Fanc Datblygu Cymru er mwyn canfod y potensial ar gyfer cronfa eiddo masnachol yn rhoi sylw i'r dystiolaeth yn ein hadroddiad fod yna brinder unedau yn gyffredinol, ac ar draws Cymru, fod yna, efallai, ac rwy'n dyfynnu,
ddau neu dri o adeiladau diwydiannol gwag yn unig, ac ar wahân i 1 filltir sgwâr ein prifddinas, ni cheir datblygiad hapfasnachol mawr yn unman.
Roedd yn anffodus nad yw Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ond wedi derbyn mewn egwyddor yn unig ein hargymhellion y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru ddychwelyd at adroddiadau blynyddol ar yr ardaloedd menter gyda data clir wedi'i ddarparu ar gyfer pob ardal, ac y dylai wneud ei blaenoriaethau ar gyfer pob un o'r ardaloedd menter yn eglur, gan gyhoeddi targedau blynyddol clir.
Mae derbyniad mewn egwyddor Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet i'n hargymhelliad y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru ailystyried ei chynnig i uno byrddau Môn ac Eryri o leiaf yn welliant ar ei safbwynt blaenorol. Mae'n cyfiawnhau hyn drwy ddatgan ei fod wedi cymryd cyngor gan gadeiryddion byrddau cynghori ardaloedd menter Ynys Môn ac Eryri, a chyda'i swyddogion, bydd yn ystyried priodoldeb ac amseru uno'r ddau fwrdd ymhellach. Wel, yr wythnos cyn ei ddatganiad i'r pwyllgor ei fod yn bwriadu uno'r ddau fwrdd, cadeiriais y pwyllgor yng ngogledd-orllewin Cymru pan glywsom dystiolaeth gan y byrddau hyn. Mae'n drueni nad oedd ef hefyd wedi cymryd y dystiolaeth hon cyn cyhoeddi ei fwriad rhy gynnar i'w huno.
Yn Nhrawsfynydd, yn ogystal â chynnydd bwrdd Eryri gyda Chanolfan Awyrofod Eryri yn Llanbedr, clywsom ei fod yn gyfrifol am liniaru'r gostyngiad cynyddol yn y lefelau cyflogaeth lleol yn hen orsaf niwclear Trawsfynydd. Ar nodyn cadarnhaol, clywsom hefyd fod y safle'n ymgeisydd ar gyfer datblygu adweithydd modiwlar bach yn y DU yn y dyfodol. Pwysleisiodd y bwrdd yn gadarn ei angen i barhau mewn bodolaeth, ac yn annibynnol oddi ar Ynys Môn gerllaw, er y byddai'n cadw ac yn datblygu ei gysylltiadau cryf â datblygiadau ar Ynys Môn. Roedd lansiad cytundeb sector niwclear newydd £200 miliwn Llywodraeth y DU yn Nhrawsfynydd bythefnos yn ôl yn atgyfnerthu pwysigrwydd hyn, gydag awgrym fod Trawsfynydd yn geffyl blaen ar gyfer datblygu adweithyddion modiwlar uwch, gan rannu hyd at £44 miliwn ar gyfer ymchwil a datblygu, a Pharc Gwyddoniaeth Menai ar Ynys Môn yn lleoliad a ffafrir ar gyfer cyfleuster hydroleg thermol gwerth £40 miliwn. Pan gyfarfuom â bwrdd Ynys Môn, roeddent hwy hefyd yn pwysleisio eu hangen i aros yn annibynnol fel y gallant fwrw ymlaen â'u gwaith ar ardal arddangos ynni llanw Morlais gorllewin Ynys Môn, ar ehangu porthladd Caergybi, ac ar yr orsaf niwclear newydd yn Wylfa Newydd.
Mae adroddiad a gomisiynwyd gan Lywodraeth y DU ac a gyhoeddwyd ym mis Mai 2018 yn cadarnhau manteision economaidd sylweddol posibl ynni ffrwd lanw. Gall Ynys Môn fod yn ganolbwynt i arweinyddiaeth fyd-eang ym maes ynni'r llanw, ac mae cynnig twf gogledd Cymru yn cynnwys cyllid ar gyfer Morlais. Clywsom hefyd y mis diwethaf y bydd Llywodraeth y DU yn dechrau trafodaethau ffurfiol gyda Hitachi ar ddatblygu ac adeiladu gorsaf niwclear newydd yn Wylfa ar Ynys Môn. Ac fel y dywedodd cadeirydd ardal fenter Ynys Môn, Neil Rowlands, wrth Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet a minnau,
Cyfansoddir y bwrdd o bobl Ynys Môn yn bennaf, ac mae'r safon yn eithriadol o uchel ac yn uniongyrchol gysylltiedig. Mae'n hanfodol fod bwrdd ardal fenter Ynys Môn yn parhau.
Diolch yn fawr.
Thank you. Can I now call the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport, Ken Skates?
Diolch. A gaf fi alw yn awr ar Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth, Ken Skates?
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and can I thank Members for the opportunity to respond to this important debate today? I'd like to thank the committee for its report into enterprise zones. I was pleased to be able to assist the committee in its inquiry, as were the enterprise zone advisory board chairs. I was particularly pleased to see that the work of the enterprise zone advisory boards was acknowledged so strongly in the committee's report. The chairs and boards have been key, I believe, in bringing about the success and achievements of the programme to date, and I, too, thank them for all of their efforts.
Diolch ichi, Ddirprwy Lywydd, a gaf fi ddiolch am y cyfle i ymateb i'r ddadl bwysig hon heddiw? Hoffwn ddiolch i'r pwyllgor am ei adroddiad ar ardaloedd menter. Roeddwn yn falch o allu cynorthwyo'r pwyllgor yn ei ymchwiliad, fel roedd cadeiryddion byrddau cynghori'r ardaloedd menter. Roeddwn yn arbennig o falch o weld bod gwaith byrddau cynghori'r ardaloedd menter wedi ei gydnabod mor gadarn yn adroddiad y pwyllgor. Mae'r cadeiryddion a'r byrddau wedi bod yn allweddol, rwy'n credu, wrth sicrhau llwyddiant a chyflawniadau'r rhaglen hyd yn hyn, ac rwyf innau hefyd yn diolch iddynt am eu holl ymdrechion.
My written response to the committee's report sets out my detailed reply to the report recommendations. I have accepted, in full or in principle, the 10 recommendations and I'm pleased to report that good progress is being made against each of them. Specifically, I've already written to the Treasury to request the extension of enhanced capital allowances in Wales for a further five years until March 2025, so that we may retain this important incentive to attract or bring forward investment within our enterprise zones, and I currently await their response.
While I'm pleased to advise that the programme continues to deliver across each of the enterprise zones, with 1,550 jobs supported in the latest financial year, I've taken on board the committee's recommendations that the published performance indicators perhaps don't reflect the situation as well as they might. So, in response, I will shortly be publishing key performance data for the enterprise zones in the financial year 2017-18 that include a more detailed breakdown as part of a broader annual report. Looking forward, while indicators can never capture the totality of the progress that is being made across the eight distinct and different zones in Wales, I have asked my officials to further consider indicators as part of the broader review of the enterprise zone programme.
I'm also mindful of the recommendation with regard to the proposed merger of the Snowdonia and Anglesey boards. Taking account of the views of the respective chairs, I have agreed to extend the term of the two current boards for a further 12-month period to help facilitate a timely and effective merger in due course.
I remain proud of the achievements and success across the enterprise zone programme since the inception of it in 2012. There is no doubt that the programme has a strong track record of delivery. More than 12,250 jobs have been supported since the inception of the zones, and I accept that the pace of delivery has been variable across the zones. I've spoken previously about how this reflects a place-based approach and the different starting points of each zone and their distinct opportunities and challenges, as was clearly stated by David Rowlands. A sense of place and ensuring regional distinctiveness is an essential element of the new economic action plan.
Like the opportunity posed by the EAP, when we chose the locations of the zones, we did not choose the easiest options. It was clear from the outset that those zones that were more investment-ready would be able to deliver in the short term, whilst others would need to focus on laying foundations for much longer term economic growth and results. A good example of this was demonstrated only last month when the UK Government nuclear growth deal was launched at Trawsfynydd. This was due, in no small part, to the continued effort of the board and John Idris Jones in particular pushing the case for small modular reactors.
There's been continued comment made about the value for money of this programme. I believe that not only has the programme consistently delivered value for money, it's also laying the foundation for future prosperity in areas around Wales. The significant investment in infrastructure, for example, and the important new road links in Anglesey, Deeside, Cardiff Airport, St Athan and Ebbw Vale, and also, of course, a new railway station in the latter zone will facilitate the development of sustainable jobs, both in the zone and, of course, using the zone as a focal point in the wider local area, not just in the short term, but also in the much longer term.
I think it's also important to recognise the really significant and important projects that have emerged as a result of this programme—huge game-changing projects that will contribute incredibly to our regional economies, for example, the development of the advanced manufacturing research institute at Deeside and the Tech Valleys programme at Blaenau Gwent. Both of these programmes will be game changing for their respective areas and certainly would not have happened without the input of the respective boards. The projects are anticipated to generate billions of pounds in GVA for the regional economies of Wales and would not have come about were it not for the existence of the enterprise zone programme.
I'm pleased that Adam Price welcomed the work of the Haven Waterway enterprise zone in examining the potential of creating a free port, because I was the person who asked them to do it. I think the idea of a free port at Airbus, whilst it might sound very novel and very bold, the fact is it's a non-starter, because the airport in Broughton is reserved for Airbus activities. I think it's important to recognise that Airbus is right at the heart of the Deeside enterprise zone and that the board there, within the zone, determined that the best vehicle for growth within the Deeside area is the creation of the advanced manufacturing research institute, which will, indeed, contribute around about £4 billion in GVA over the next two decades.
As you know, as part of implementing the economic action plan, I've reviewed all advisory bodies within my portfolio, and I've identified opportunities to simplify the landscape. Under a newly formed, overarching ministerial advisory board, the future governance structure of the zones has been designed to best meet the stage, opportunities and the distinctive needs of each zone. As part of that work, I've asked the enterprise zone chairs to review their strategic plans, to reflect their priorities and aspirations for those zones over the next three years. These new plans will be published later this year, and, alongside that, I've also asked my officials to undertake a comprehensive review of the enterprise zone programme as a whole, one that considers the current economic conditions, EAP priorities, and the latest plan and future direction for each of the zones. We should not be afraid to abandon the past when more effective solutions exist for the future.
I want us to develop a clear strategic focus for the programme, moving forward, and it's important that we continue to offer the right incentives to business, and also that we remain competitive with other UK enterprise zones, especially, as David Rowlands identified, those nearby on the English side of the border. The review that I've asked officials to conduct will address these issues and take into account the committee report's findings on areas such as commercial property availability, and I can assure Mark Isherwood that we are already in discussions with the Development Bank of Wales in that regard.
The enterprise zones embrace the importance of recognising a sense of place, and my senior officials, and, specifically, the newly appointed chief regional officers, have a very clear role as the voice of each region in Welsh Government, and they are already building strong relationships with the business community, enterprise zones and other key stakeholders in creating regional plans for economic development. The presence of enterprise zones within each of our regions is undoubtedly part of the asset base that we will build upon in the years to come, as we implement new ways of working that will deliver inclusive growth across Wales.
Mae fy ymateb ysgrifenedig i adroddiad y pwyllgor yn nodi fy ymateb manwl i argymhellion yr adroddiad. Rwyf wedi derbyn y 10 argymhelliad yn llawn neu mewn egwyddor, ac rwy'n falch o nodi y gwneir cynnydd da yn erbyn pob un ohonynt. Yn benodol, rwyf eisoes wedi ysgrifennu at y Trysorlys i ofyn am ymestyn lwfansau cyfalaf uwch yng Nghymru am bum mlynedd arall tan fis Mawrth 2025, fel y gallwn gadw'r cymhelliant pwysig hwn i ddenu neu gyflwyno buddsoddiad o fewn ein hardaloedd menter ac ar hyn o bryd rwy'n aros am eu hymateb.
Er fy mod yn falch o'ch hysbysu bod y rhaglen yn parhau i gyflawni ar draws pob un o'r ardaloedd menter, gyda 1,550 o swyddi'n cael eu cefnogi yn y flwyddyn ariannol ddiweddaraf, rwyf wedi gwrando ar argymhellion y pwyllgor nad yw'r dangosyddion perfformiad cyhoeddedig yn adlewyrchu'r sefyllfa cystal ag y gallent o bosibl. Felly, mewn ymateb, byddaf yn cyhoeddi data perfformiad allweddol cyn hir ar gyfer yr ardaloedd menter yn y flwyddyn ariannol 2017-18 gan gynnwys dadansoddiad manylach fel rhan o adroddiad blynyddol ehangach. Gan edrych tua'r dyfodol, er na all dangosyddion byth gyfleu'r cynnydd a wneir ar draws yr wyth ardal wahanol yng Nghymru yn llawn, rwyf wedi gofyn i fy swyddogion ystyried dangosyddion ymhellach fel rhan o'r adolygiad ehangach o'r rhaglen ardaloedd menter.
Rwyf hefyd yn ymwybodol o'r argymhelliad ar y cynnig i uno byrddau Eryri ac Ynys Môn. Gan ystyried barn y cadeiryddion, rwyf wedi cytuno i ymestyn tymor y ddau fwrdd presennol am gyfnod pellach o 12 mis i helpu i hwyluso proses uno amserol ac effeithiol maes o law.
Rwy'n parhau'n falch o'r cyflawniadau a'r llwyddiant ar draws y rhaglen ardaloedd menter ers ei chychwyn yn 2012. Nid oes unrhyw amheuaeth fod gan y rhaglen hanes cryf o gyflawni. Cefnogwyd mwy na 12,250 o swyddi ers sefydlu'r ardaloedd, ac rwy'n derbyn bod cyflymder y gwaith wedi amrywio ar draws yr ardaloedd. Rwyf wedi siarad o'r blaen ynglŷn â sut y mae hyn yn adlewyrchu dull o weithredu sy'n seiliedig ar le a mannau cychwyn gwahanol pob ardal a'u gwahanol gyfleoedd a heriau, fel y nodwyd yn glir gan David Rowlands. Mae ymdeimlad o le a sicrhau gwahanolrwydd rhanbarthol yn elfen hanfodol o'r cynllun gweithredu economaidd newydd.
Fel y cyfle a gafwyd yn sgil y cynllun gweithredu entrepreneuriaeth, pan oeddem yn dewis lleoliadau'r ardaloedd, ni ddewiswyd yr opsiynau hawsaf. Roedd yn amlwg o'r cychwyn cyntaf y byddai'r ardaloedd mwy parod ar gyfer buddsoddiad yn gallu cyflawni yn y tymor byr, a byddai eraill angen canolbwyntio ar osod sylfeini ar gyfer twf economaidd a chanlyniadau yn llawer mwy hirdymor. Dangoswyd enghraifft dda o hyn y mis diwethaf pan lansiwyd cytundeb twf ynni niwclear Llywodraeth y DU yn Nhrawsfynydd. Deilliodd hyn i raddau helaeth o ymdrech barhaus y bwrdd a John Idris Jones yn arbennig i hyrwyddo'r achos dros adweithwyr modiwlar bach.
Gwnaed sylwadau parhaus ynghylch gwerth am arian y rhaglen hon. Rwy'n credu bod y rhaglen nid yn unig wedi darparu gwerth am arian yn gyson, mae hefyd yn gosod y sylfaen ar gyfer ffyniant yn y dyfodol mewn ardaloedd ledled Cymru. Bydd y buddsoddiad sylweddol mewn seilwaith, er enghraifft, a'r cysylltiadau ffordd newydd pwysig yn Ynys Môn, Glannau Dyfrdwy, Maes Awyr Caerdydd, Sain Tathan a Glynebwy, a hefyd, wrth gwrs, gorsaf reilffordd newydd yn ardal Glynebwy yn hwyluso datblygiad swyddi cynaliadwy yn yr ardal ac wrth gwrs, gan ddefnyddio'r ardal fel canolbwynt yn yr ardal leol ehangach, nid yn unig yn y tymor byr, ond hefyd yn llawer mwy hirdymor.
Hefyd mae'n bwysig cydnabod y prosiectau pwysig ac arwyddocaol iawn sydd wedi dod i'r amlwg o ganlyniad i'r rhaglen hon—prosiectau sy'n creu newid sylfaenol a fydd yn cyfrannu'n enfawr at ein heconomïau rhanbarthol, er enghraifft datblygu'r athrofa ymchwil gweithgynhyrchu uwch yng Nglannau Dyfrdwy a rhaglen y Cymoedd Technegol ym Mlaenau Gwent. Bydd y ddwy raglen hon yn sicrhau newid sylfaenol yn eu hardaloedd, ac yn sicr ni fyddent wedi digwydd heb fewnbwn y byrddau. Rhagwelir y bydd y prosiectau'n cynhyrchu biliynau o bunnoedd mewn gwerth ychwanegol crynswth ar gyfer economïau rhanbarthol Cymru ac ni fyddai wedi digwydd oni bai am fodolaeth rhaglen yr ardaloedd menter.
Rwy'n falch fod Adam Price wedi croesawu gwaith ardal fenter Dyfrffordd y Ddau Gleddau yn archwilio potensial creu porthladd rhydd, gan mai fi a ofynnodd iddynt wneud hynny. Credaf fod y syniad o borthladd rhydd yn Airbus, er ei fod efallai'n swnio'n syniad newydd a beiddgar iawn, y ffaith amdani yw ei fod yn anymarferol oherwydd mae'r maes awyr ym Mrychdyn yn cael ei gadw ar gyfer gweithgareddau Airbus. Credaf ei bod hi'n bwysig cydnabod bod Airbus yn gwbl ganolog yn ardal fenter Glannau Dyfrdwy a bod y bwrdd yno, o fewn yr ardal, wedi penderfynu mai'r cyfrwng gorau ar gyfer twf yn ardal Glannau Dyfrdwy yw creu'r athrofa ymchwil gweithgynhyrchu uwch, a fydd, yn wir, yn cyfrannu oddeutu £4 biliwn mewn gwerth ychwanegol crynswth dros y ddau ddegawd nesaf.
Fel y gwyddoch, fel rhan o weithredu'r cynllun gweithredu economaidd, rwyf wedi adolygu'r holl gyrff cynghori yn fy mhortffolio, ac rwyf wedi nodi cyfleoedd i symleiddio'r tirlun. O dan fwrdd cynghori'r Gweinidog trosfwaol sydd newydd ei ffurfio, mae strwythur llywodraethu'r ardaloedd ar gyfer y dyfodol wedi'i gynllunio yn y ffordd orau ar gyfer y cam y mae pob ardal arno, a'u cyfleoedd a'u hanghenion unigryw. Fel rhan o'r gwaith hwnnw, rwyf wedi gofyn i gadeiryddion yr ardaloedd menter adolygu eu cynlluniau strategol, er mwyn adlewyrchu eu blaenoriaethau a'u dyheadau ar gyfer yr ardaloedd hynny dros y tair blynedd nesaf. Bydd y cynlluniau newydd hyn yn cael eu cyhoeddi yn ddiweddarach eleni, ac ochr yn ochr â hynny, rwyf wedi gofyn hefyd i fy swyddogion gynnal adolygiad cynhwysfawr o'r rhaglen ardaloedd menter yn ei chyfanrwydd, adolygiad a fydd yn ystyried yr amodau economaidd cyfredol, blaenoriaethau'r cynllun gweithredu entrepreneuriaeth a chynllun diweddaraf pob ardal a'u cyfeiriad yn y dyfodol. Ni ddylem ofni cau'r drws ar y gorffennol pan fo atebion mwy effeithiol yn bodoli ar gyfer y dyfodol.
Rwyf am inni ddatblygu ffocws strategol clir ar gyfer y rhaglen wrth symud ymlaen, ac mae'n bwysig ein bod yn parhau i gynnig y cymhellion iawn i fusnesau, a hefyd ein bod yn parhau'n gystadleuol mewn perthynas ag ardaloedd menter eraill yn y DU, yn enwedig, fel y nododd David Rowlands, y rhai gerllaw ar ochr Lloegr i'r ffin. Bydd yr adolygiad rwyf wedi gofyn i swyddogion ei gynnal yn rhoi sylw i'r materion hyn ac yn ystyried canfyddiadau adroddiad y pwyllgor mewn meysydd megis argaeledd eiddo masnachol, a gallaf sicrhau Mark Isherwood ein bod eisoes yn cael trafodaethau gyda Banc Datblygu Cymru yn hynny o beth.
Mae'r ardaloedd menter yn cofleidio pwysigrwydd cydnabod ymdeimlad o le, ac mae gan fy uwch-swyddogion, ac yn benodol, y prif swyddogion rhanbarthol sydd newydd eu penodi, rôl glir iawn fel llais pob rhanbarth yn Llywodraeth Cymru, ac maent eisoes yn adeiladu cysylltiadau cryf gyda'r gymuned fusnes, ardaloedd menter a rhanddeiliaid allweddol eraill i greu cynlluniau rhanbarthol ar gyfer datblygu economaidd. Heb os, mae presenoldeb ardaloedd menter ym mhob un o'n rhanbarthau yn rhan bendant o'r sylfaen asedau y byddwn yn adeiladu arni yn y blynyddoedd i ddod, wrth inni weithredu ffyrdd newydd o weithio a fydd yn sicrhau twf cynhwysol ledled Cymru.
Thank you. Can I now call on Russell George to reply to the debate?
Diolch. A gaf fi alw yn awr ar Russell George i ymateb i'r ddadl?
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. It does seem to me that enterprise zones have been, perhaps, a series of place-based experiments and will continue to merit further study over the coming years. The clear lesson, I think, to date, is that there is a real benefit to knowing your strengths and bringing partners together around a shared vision, and I think that the lesson learnt is that this lesson must be a building block for the new regional approach to economic development that the Welsh Government is developing.
The question that I first presented in the opening comments was: have enterprise zones boosted jobs and growth as planned? There was some uncertainty whether that was a 'yes' or a 'no', and I think Adam Price, in his contribution, went into a bit more detail in that regard, and also in terms of obtaining the information from Government in order to scrutinise this area effectively. I would say that it was Adam Price, Mark Isherwood and David Rowlands who went to visit the Snowdonia and Anglesey zones, so I'm very pleased that each of the Members covered their visit extensively in their contributions. Joyce Watson highlighted the Haven Waterway project and board, to no surprise, in that part of the region that she represents.
David Rowlands, I noticed, focused a little bit on the issue of job creation versus costs, which is something I didn't go into in detail in my opening comments, but this is something that the committee did look at quite extensively. The Cabinet Secretary, perhaps, had some different figures that he presented in terms of that area, but I think perhaps this does highlight how the drip-feed approach of information sharing has not been helpful. But I was very pleased with the Cabinet Secretary in regard to his response on improved indicators and performance measures. I think that is very welcome indeed, and I'm very pleased with those comments.
Mark Isherwood focused on quite a few areas. I was particularly pleased that he focused on the issue of commercial units being available, and property availability and land availability. This is an issue that was raised by a number of enterprise zones, to my surprise, because in my own constituency this is particularly a problem, and I thought it was perhaps located to mid Wales, but it's not, it's an issue right across Wales—in the north, in the south, in the west. I know that the committee are very keen to come back to the issue of land availability, property availability, commercial units and the support from Welsh Government to build commercial units as well. I appreciate that the Cabinet Secretary is actually coming up to my constituency the week after next to meet with businesses who have the difficulty—businesses that want to expand but simply can't expand because there are no commercial units to be made available for them.
I would like to thank, in particular, all the chairs of the enterprise zones for their co-operation, and in particular John Idris Jones and Neil Rowlands for their assistance in arranging visits to their areas. I'd like to thank all the committee members who took part in this debate this afternoon, and all the members of the committee for their work; and also, of course, say thanks for the great support we had from committee services, as always, that contributed towards our report. I'd also like to thank all those who gave evidence either in oral or written form as well. I'm very grateful. I'm very grateful to all those who took part in this debate this afternoon. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.
Diolch ichi, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Mae'n ymddangos i mi fod ardaloedd menter wedi bod, efallai, yn gyfres o arbrofion sy'n seiliedig ar le a byddant yn parhau i gael eu hastudio ymhellach dros y blynyddoedd nesaf. Y wers glir hyd yma, rwy'n credu, yw bod budd gwirioneddol i wybod eich cryfderau a dod â phartneriaid at ei gilydd o amgylch gweledigaeth a rennir, ac rwy'n meddwl bod yn rhaid i'r wers hon fod yn sylfaen ar gyfer y dull newydd rhanbarthol o gyflawni datblygu economaidd y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei ddatblygu.
Y cwestiwn a gyflwynais gyntaf yn y sylwadau agoriadol oedd hwn: a yw ardaloedd menter wedi hybu swyddi a thwf fel y cynlluniwyd iddynt ei wneud? Roedd peth ansicrwydd ai 'do' neu 'naddo' oedd yr ateb a chredaf fod Adam Price, yn ei gyfraniad, wedi manylu ychydig ar hynny, a hefyd o ran cael gafael ar y wybodaeth gan y Llywodraeth er mwyn craffu ar y maes hwn yn effeithiol. Rwyf am ddweud mai Adam Price, Mark Isherwood a David Rowlands a aeth i ymweld ag ardaloedd Eryri ac Ynys Môn, felly rwy'n falch iawn fod pob un o'r Aelodau wedi rhoi sylw helaeth i'w hymweliadau yn eu cyfraniadau. Nid yw'n syndod fod Joyce Watson wedi tynnu sylw at brosiect a bwrdd Dyfrffordd y Ddau Gleddau yn y rhan honno o'r rhanbarth y mae'n ei gynrychioli.
Sylwais fod David Rowlands wedi canolbwyntio ychydig ar fater creu swyddi yn erbyn costau, sy'n rhywbeth na fanylais arno yn fy sylwadau agoriadol, ond mae hyn yn rhywbeth yr edrychodd y pwyllgor arno'n eithaf helaeth. Roedd gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, efallai, ffigurau gwahanol a gyflwynodd o ran hynny, ond credaf efallai fod hyn yn tynnu sylw at y modd na fu'r dull tameidiog o rannu gwybodaeth yn ddefnyddiol iawn. Ond roeddwn yn fodlon iawn gydag ymateb Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ar wella dangosyddion a mesurau perfformiad. Credaf fod hynny i'w groesawu'n fawr iawn wir, ac rwy'n hapus iawn gyda'r sylwadau hynny.
Canolbwyntiodd Mark Isherwood ar nifer o feysydd. Roeddwn yn arbennig o falch iddo ganolbwyntio ar fater yr unedau masnachol sydd ar gael, ac argaeledd eiddo a thir. Mae hwn yn fater a godwyd gan nifer o ardaloedd menter, er syndod i mi, oherwydd mae hon yn broblem benodol yn fy etholaeth i, ac roeddwn yn meddwl efallai ei bod yn un sy'n perthyn i ganolbarth Cymru, ond nid yw hynny'n wir, mae'n broblem ledled Cymru—yn y gogledd, yn y de, yn y gorllewin. Gwn fod y pwyllgor yn awyddus iawn i ddod yn ôl at fater argaeledd tir, argaeledd eiddo, unedau masnachol a'r gefnogaeth gan Lywodraeth Cymru i adeiladu unedau masnachol yn ogystal. Rwy'n sylweddoli bod Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn dod i fy etholaeth yr wythnos ar ôl nesaf i gyfarfod â busnesau sy'n wynebu'r anhawster hwn—busnesau sydd eisiau ehangu ond na allant ehangu am nad oes unedau masnachol ar gael ar eu cyfer.
Hoffwn ddiolch yn arbennig i holl gadeiryddion yr ardaloedd menter am eu cydweithrediad, ac yn enwedig i John Idris Jones a Neil Rowlands am eu cymorth wrth drefnu ymweliadau â'u hardaloedd. Hoffwn ddiolch i holl aelodau'r pwyllgor a gymerodd ran yn y ddadl hon y prynhawn yma, a holl aelodau'r pwyllgor am eu gwaith; a hefyd, wrth gwrs, diolch am y gefnogaeth wych a gawsom gan y gwasanaethau pwyllgor, fel bob amser, a gyfrannodd tuag at ein adroddiad. Hoffwn ddiolch hefyd i bawb a roddodd dystiolaeth naill ai'n ysgrifenedig neu ar lafar. Rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn. Rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn i bawb a gymerodd ran yn y ddadl y prynhawn yma. Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd.
Thank you very much. The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Y cynnig yw nodi adroddiad y pwyllgor. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Nac oes. Felly, derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
We have no items under voting time today. I now propose a five-minute adjournment. We have some information technology problems, so there will be a five-minute adjournment, but I will not be ringing the bell, so I expect Members to be back in the Chamber just after 6.00 p.m, please.
Nid oes gennym unrhyw eitemau yn y cyfnod pleidleisio heddiw. Rwy'n cynnig ein bod yn gohirio am bum munud. Mae gennym rai problemau technoleg gwybodaeth, felly byddwn yn gohirio am bum munud, ond ni fyddaf yn canu'r gloch, felly rwy'n disgwyl i'r Aelodau fod yn ôl yn y Siambr yn fuan ar ôl 6.00.p.m, os gwelwch yn dda.
Ataliwyd y Cyfarfod Llawn am 17:57.
Plenary was suspended at 17:57.
Ailymgynullodd y Cynulliad am 18:03, gyda'r Dirprwy Lywydd yn y Gadair.
The Assembly reconvened at 18:03, with the Deputy Presiding Officer in the Chair.
We will reconvene, then, and we will move to item 10, which is the short debate.
Fe wnawn ailymgynnull, felly, a symudwn at eitem 10, sef y ddadl fer.
I call on Rhun ap Iorwerth to speak to the topic he has chosen—Rhun.
Galwaf ar Rhun ap Iorwerth i siarad am y pwnc a ddewiswyd ganddo—Rhun.
Diolch yn fawr iawn i chi, a diolch am eich amynedd chi a'ch cymorth chi yn wyneb trafferthion cyfrifiadurol.
Mi fydd pobl Môn a glannau'r Fenai yn gyfarwydd iawn efo testun fy nadl i heddiw. Mae llong y Prince Madog a'i rhagflaenydd, y Prince Madog gwreiddiol, wedi bod yn olygfa gyfarwydd iawn, wedi'i rhaffu i bier Porthaethwy ers degawdau. Rwy'n falch o gael ei dangos hi ar y sgriniau o'n cwmpas ni yma yn y Siambr heddiw. Hi ydy'r llong fwyaf i'w gweld yn gyson ar y Fenai, ac i bawb sy'n falch ohoni hi, sy'n gwybod ei bod hi'n symbol o ragoriaeth adran gwyddorau eigion Prifysgol Bangor ym Mhorthaethwy, wel, rwy'n gobeithio y gallaf eich gwneud chi'n fwy balch byth ohoni hi yn y 10 munud nesaf, a'ch perswadio chi o bwysigrwydd y Prince Madog rŵan, a'i photensial cenedlaethol hi mewn blynyddoedd i ddod. Rwy'n edrych ymlaen at ymateb y Llywodraeth, ac a gaf i ddweud hefyd fy mod i wedi cytuno i roi amser i Mark Isherwood ymateb i'm sylwadau i hefyd?
Mi ddechreuwn ni efo rhywfaint o gyd-destun. Yn 34m o hyd, yr RV Prince Madog ydy'r llong ymchwil fwyaf yn y sector addysg uwch ym Mhrydain gyfan. Yn 2001 y cafodd hi ei hadeiladu, ond mae'r buddsoddi sydd wedi bod ynddi hi ers hynny yn golygu ei bod hi'n llong fodern iawn, sy'n gallu ymgymryd efo ystod eang o dasgau ymchwil yn nyfroedd Cymru a thu hwnt o fewn ffiniau'r silff gyfandirol. Mae'n cynnwys offer sonar multibeam ar gyfer mapio safon uchel, neu high resolution. Mae'n cynnwys side-scan sonar ar gyfer morffoleg gwely'r môr, offer proffilio dan wely’r môr, neu sub-bottom profiler, i astudio strwythur gwely’r môr. Mae’n cario offer ADCP ar gyfer mesur cerrynt, CTD i wneud mesuriadau yn y dŵr, ac mae'n cario offer i asesu popeth sy’n byw ar y gwaelod ac yn y golofn ddŵr, o blancton i bysgod. Mae’n gallu gweithio 24 awr y dydd am 10 diwrnod yn ddidor. Ac, ar ben hynny, wrth gwrs, mae gan Brifysgol Bangor y gallu gwyddonol i ddadansoddi a defnyddio’r holl ddata sy’n cael ei gasglu. I grynhoi, mae’r Prince Madog, felly—y llong, ei hoffer, a’r bobl sydd y tu cefn iddi—yr union beth sydd ei angen i astudio moroedd Cymru. Ac mae yna lot i’w astudio.
Mae gennym ni 2,200 km o arfordir. Ond, wrth gwrs, mae’n cyfrifoldebau ni, a chyfrifoldebau’r Llywodraeth, yn ymestyn ymhell tu hwnt i’r arfordir hwnnw—200 milltir. Arwynebedd Cymru—y tir, hynny ydy—ydy rhyw 21,000 km sgwâr, ond mae gennym ni 32,000 km sgwâr o wely môr, ond ychydig iawn o hwnnw yr ydym ni’n ei adnabod yn dda—cyfran fechan iawn ohono fo sydd wedi cael ei hastudio a’i mapio.
Mi gafodd cynllun morol i Gymru ei gyhoeddi ym mis Tachwedd 2015. Hen bryd cael un, mae’n rhaid dweud, ac ynddo mae’n dweud bod ardal forol Cymru’n cynnwys adnoddau naturiol gwerthfawr ac amrywiol a all gynnig cyfleoedd economaidd a chymdeithasol sylweddol ac sy’n cyfrannu at les y genedl a lles cenedlaethau’r dyfodol. Mae’n ddatganiad rwy’n cytuno’n llwyr ag o, ond, mewn difrif, rydym ni’n gwybod fawr ddim manylion am yr adnoddau yna. Mae’n rhyfeddol cyn lleied o’n gwely môr ni sydd wedi cael ei fapio o ystyried manylder mapio’r tir. Ac mae mapio o’r math yma’n flaenoriaeth ar lefel Undeb Ewropeaidd ers tro. Dyma a ddywedodd comisiynydd dros faterion morwrol a physgodfeydd:
Thank you very much, and thank you for your patience and your assistance in the face of IT difficulties.
The people of Anglesey and the banks of the Menai will be very familiar with the title of my debate today. The Prince Madog and its predecessor the original Prince Madog have been a familiar sight tied to the pier in Menai Bridge for decades, and I’m proud to be able to show it on the screens around us in the Chamber today. It’s the largest ship to be seen regularly on the Menai strait and all those who are proud of it know it’s a symbol of excellence in the School of Ocean Sciences at Bangor. Well, I hope I can make you even more proud of this vessel over the next 10 minutes and to persuade you of the importance of the Prince Madog now and its national potential for years to come. I look forward to hearing the Government’s response, and may I also say that I’ve agreed to give some time to Mark Isherwood to respond to my comments also?
We’ll start with some context. At 34m long, the RV Prince Madog is the largest research vessel in the higher education sector in the whole of the UK. It was built in 2001, but the investment in the vessel since then means that it’s a very modern vessel that can deal with a broad range of research tasks in Welsh waters and beyond within the continental shelf. It has multibeam sonar equipment for high-resolution mapping. It includes a side-scan sonar for sea bed morphology and profiling equipment for sub-bottom profiling to study the structure of the sea bed. It carries acoustic doppler current profiler equipment in order to measure current, CTD to take water measurements, and it carries equipment to assess everything that lives on the sea bed and in the water column, from plankton to fish species. It can work 24 hours a day for 10 days uninterrupted. In addition to that, of course, Bangor University has the scientific expertise to analyse and to use all of the data generated. In summary, therefore, the Prince Madog—the vessel, its equipment and the people who work with it—is exactly what is required to study the seas around Wales, and there’s a great deal to study.
We have 2,200 km of coastline, but our responsibilities and the responsibilities of Government extend way beyond that coastline—200 miles out. The surface of Wales—the land, that is—is some 21,000 sq km, but we have 32,000 sq km of sea bed, but we know little of it well. It’s a small proportion that has been studied and mapped.
The marine plan for Wales was published in November 2015. It was about time that we had one, I have to say, and the plan states that the Wales marine area includes valuable and varied natural resources that can provide significant economic and social opportunities and which contribute to the well-being of the nation and of future generations. It’s a statement that I agree entirely with, but, in reality, we know virtually nothing about those resources. It’s staggering how little of our sea bed has been mapped, given the detailed onshore mapping. Mapping of this kind is a priority on an EU level and has been for some time. This is what a commissioner for maritime affairs and fisheries said:
‘our initiative'—
the EU initiative—
'to create a digital map of the entire seabed of European waters will increase the predictability for businesses to invest, lowering costs and stimulate further innovation for sustainable blue growth.’
bydd ein menter—
menter yr UE—
i greu map digidol o wely'r môr holl ddyfroedd Ewrop yn cynyddu lefel y rhagweladwyedd er mwyn i fusnesau fuddsoddi, gan ostwng costau ac ysgogi arloesedd pellach ar gyfer twf glas cynaliadwy.
Ar lefel Ewropeaidd, mae yna feddwl strategol wedi bod ynglŷn â sut i wneud y mapio yna. Ond nid oes yna gynllun wedi’i gydlynu ar gyfer y Deyrnas Unedig—dim cynllun ar gyfer Cymru. Mae’r broses o gasglu data wedi bod yn ad hoc. Nid ydy o wedi cael ei gydlynu’n iawn, ac mae’n rhaid i hynny newid. Ac, wrth gwrs, mae gennym ni’r adnodd sydd ei angen i wneud y gwaith. Rydym ni’n ei gweld hi ar y sgrin: y Prince Madog.
Felly, beth ydy’r broblem? Wel, mae model cyllido’r llong wedi bod yn effeithiol iawn yn y gorffennol. Mae wedi galluogi i Brifysgol Bangor gael y llong. Mae’n cael ei rhedeg ar y cyd gan y brifysgol a chwmni P&O Marine fel cydberchnogion. Mae’r brifysgol yn defnyddio’r llong ar gyfer ymchwil a dysgu am 125 diwrnod y flwyddyn, ac mae P&O Marine yn chwilio am siarteri ar gyfer gweddill yr amser i wneud y project yn hyfyw a chynaliadwy. Mae wedi bod yn enghraifft ragorol o bartneriaeth rhwng y sector gyhoeddus a’r sector breifat. Ond—a dyma’r rheswm dros y ddadl—nid oes yna addewid y bydd yr adnodd gennym ni ar ôl 2021. Dyna pryd mae’r cytundeb presennol yn dod i ben. Mae yna gwymp sylweddol wedi bod yn y farchnad am wasanaethau masnachol P&O yn defnyddio’r llong arbennig hon, ac mae hynny’n peryglu’r bartneriaeth. Ac fel mae’n edrych ar hyn o bryd, mae’n ymddangos yn annhebygol y bydd P&O yn gallu adnewyddu’r cytundeb. Felly, mae angen ateb amgen. Yr un yr wyf i am ei weld yn digwydd ydy dyrchafu’r Prince Madog o long ymchwil Prifysgol Bangor i statws llong ymchwil forwrol genedlaethol. Ac, yn syml iawn, rydym ni angen un.
Oddi ar arfordir Môn ar hyn o bryd mae yna waith cyffrous iawn yn digwydd o ddatblygu ardal arddangos technolegau cynhyrchu trydan o’r llanw. Beth sy’n gwneud y parth arddangos yn ddeniadol i gwmnïau ynni ydy bod y gwaith paratoi wedi cael ei wneud ar eu cyfer nhw gan Morlais yn barod—nhw sy’n rhedeg y fenter, yn cynnwys yr holl waith mapio a darparu gwybodaeth sydd ei angen arnyn nhw ynglŷn â chyflwr gwely’r môr a lle y cân nhw roi eu peiriannau. Os ydym ni’n wirioneddol o ddifrif am fanteisio i'r eithaf ar y llanw a'r cerrynt sy'n llifo o gwmpas Cymru, i ddod â budd economaidd a budd amgylcheddol hefyd i genedlaethau'r dyfodol, yna rydym ni angen gwneud y gwaith mapio i ddangos beth yn union ydy'r cyfleoedd. Ac os nad ydym ni'n ei wneud o, mae gwledydd eraill am ei wneud o.
Mi soniais i yn gynharach am waith strategol y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd. Gadewch i ni edrych ar beth sy'n digwydd yn y wlad Ewropeaidd agosaf atom ni—ein cymdogion draw yng Ngweriniaeth Iwerddon. Mae ganddyn nhw ddwy long ymchwil genedlaethol yn barod. Mae'r prif un, y Celtic Explorer, yn llong 65m o hyd, wedi'i chomisiynu yn 2003. Yn gynharach eleni, mi ddywedodd Llywodraeth y Weriniaeth eu bod nhw'n bwriadu prynu llong ymchwil newydd i gymryd lle llong arall sydd ganddyn nhw ar hyn o bryd, sef y Celtic Voyager. Mae Iwerddon yn gwybod bod yn rhaid iddyn nhw gael yr adnoddau yma er mwyn iddyn nhw allu manteisio ar eu hadnoddau morol nhw. Mae'r adroddiad 'Harnessing Our Ocean Wealth', a gyhoeddwyd yn ôl yn 2012, yn cynnig strategaeth uchelgeisiol sy'n dangos cymaint mae Iwerddon yn cymryd y cyfleoedd yma o ddifri. Nid ydw i wedi gweld pris ar gyfer y llong newydd—mi gostiodd y Celtic Explorer, o ran diddordeb, rhyw €23 miliwn yn ôl yn 2003.
Yn y Prince Madog, mae gennym mi long yno yn barod, ac mae yno i Gymru, ond ni all Prifysgol Bangor fforddio ei rhedeg hi ei hunan. Mae angen cefnogaeth. Nid degau o filiynau o gyfalaf, ond cefnogaeth, a heb y gefnogaeth honno, nid dim ond Bangor ond Cymru fyddai'n colli'r adnodd rhagorol yma. Nid oes yna'r un brifysgol arall ym Mhrydain yn berchen ar long fel hon. I brifysgol, mae'n adnodd drud iawn, ond i wlad sydd angen buddsoddi yn ei dyfodol, rydym ni'n sôn am symiau cymharol fychan o arian. Dyma ichi enghraifft o sut allai fo weithio, yn cadw partner masnachol, preifat, o bosibl, fel rhan o'r fargen hefyd. O gofio bod yna werth blynyddoedd o waith mapio angen ei wneud—angen ei wneud er lles economaidd Cymru—petasai Llywodraeth Cymru yn dod yn bartner yn y Prince Madog fel llong ymchwil forwrol genedlaethol, a buddsoddi mewn dim ond—beth ddywedwn ni—50 o ddyddiau'r flwyddyn, mi allai hynny fod yn ddigon i achub y llong. Efallai dim ond dechrau byddai hynny—50 o ddyddiau, rhyw £5,000 y dydd, £250,000 y flwyddyn. Dyna'r cyfan rydym ni'n sôn amdano fo, o bosibl, ar gyfer gwaith mapio a allai fod â'r potensial, waeth inni fod yn onest, i ryddhau ac agor y ffordd at werth biliynau o bunnau o brosiectau ynni, yn ogystal â bod yn ffynhonnell gwybodaeth allweddol ym meysydd cadwraeth, twristiaeth, hamdden, pysgodfeydd a chynhyrchiant bwyd.
Mae'n ffordd, byddwn i'n dadlau, gost-effeithiol iawn o ddelifro'r data sydd ei angen at y dyfodol, o ddarparu'r dadansoddiad gwyddonol angenrheidiol, ac, o edrych arno fo fel cymorth i adran gwyddorau eigion o safon fyd-eang, mae hefyd yn fodd o gynnal a chryfhau'r sylfeini ar gyfer ymchwil morwrol yn ei ystyr ehangach, sydd hefyd, wrth gwrs, yn hwb economaidd i Gymru. Mae'r llong yma yn denu myfyrwyr gorau'r byd i Gymru.
I grynhoi, mae ffyniant a buddsoddiad yn yr economi las yng Nghymru yn dibynnu ar ein dealltwriaeth o'r moroedd sydd o'n cwmpas ni. Mi ydym ni mewn sefyllfa freintiedig fod y gallu gennym ni i wneud yr ymchwil yma. Rydym ni'n lwcus bod y Prince Madog yn ein meddiant ni'n barod, ond fiw inni ei chymryd hi yn ganiataol. Ar ôl gadael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, mi fydd yna fwy o gyfrifoldebau ar ein hysgwyddau ni dros reoli ein hadnoddau naturiol. Ond i wneud y rheoli yna, mi fydd angen y math o dystiolaeth wyddonol sydd ddim gennym ni ar hyn o bryd. Mae gan Gymru'r gallu i fod yn arweinydd mewn technoleg ynni llif llanw. Mae targedau yn eu lle gan y Llywodraeth ar gyfer cynyddu cynhyrchiant oddi ar ein harfordir o fewn y blynyddoedd nesaf. Ond mae angen gwneud y buddsoddiad mewn cynhyrchu ynni yn hawdd iawn, ac, er mwyn hynny, mae angen data ac mae angen mapio.
Uchelgais yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, fel dywedais i, yw mapio ei holl foroedd. Mae Iwerddon, fel dywedais i, yn buddsoddi yn hyn. Ond nid oes yn dal i fod gan Gymru, ar hyn o bryd, raglen o'r fath, a'r Prince Madog ydy'r allwedd.
At the European level, there has been strategic thinking on how to carry out that mapping, but there has been no co-ordinated plan for the UK—no plan for Wales. The process of gathering data has been ad hoc. It hasn’t been properly co-ordinated, and that must change. Of course, we have the resource that we need to do that work. We see it on the screen: the Prince Madog.
So what’s the problem? Well, the funding model for the vessel has been very effective in the past. It has enabled Bangor University to have such a vessel. It is run jointly by the university and P&O Maritime as joint owners. The university uses the vessel for teaching and research for 125 days a year, and P&O Maritime looks for charters for the rest of the time, to make the project viable and sustainable. It’s been an excellent example of partnership between the public and private sector, but—and this is the reason for this debate—there is no pledge that we will have this resource in place post 2021. That’s when the current agreement comes to an end. There’s been a significant decline in the market for P&O’s commercial services making use of that particular vessel, and this puts the partnership at risk. As things look at present, it appears unlikely that P&O will be able to renew that contract. So, we need an alternative solution. What I want to see happening is the elevation of the Prince Madog from being the Bangor University research vessel to the status of a national maritime research ship. And, quite simply, we need such a vessel.
Off the Anglesey coast at the moment, there is some very exciting work happening in developing a demonstration zone for electricity generation techniques using the tides, and what makes that zone attractive to energy companies is that the preparatory work has been done for them by Morlais. It is they who run the initiative, including all of the mapping work and providing the information required on the state of the sea bed and where they can place their equipment. If we are truly serious about taking full advantage of the currents flowing around Wales, to bring economic and environmental benefits for future generations, then we need to do that mapping work to show what exactly the opportunities are. And if we don’t do it, then other nations will do it.
I mentioned earlier the strategic work of the European Commission, let’s look at what’s happening with our closest European neighbour in the Republic of Ireland. They have two national research vessels already. The main vessel, the Celtic Explorer, is 65m long, commissioned in 2003. Earlier this year, the Government of the Republic of Ireland said that they intended to by a new research ship to replace another of their vessels, namely the Celtic Voyager. Ireland knows that they must have these resources in order for them to take full advantage of their marine resources. The ‘Harnessing Our Ocean Wealth’ report published back in 2012 proposes an ambitious strategy that shows just how seriously Ireland is taking these opportunities. I haven’t seen a price for the new vessel—the Celtic Explorer, just out of interest, cost some €23 million back in 2003.
With the Prince Madog, we have a vessel in place already and it’s there for Wales, but Bangor University can’t afford to run it alone. They need support. Not tens of millions of pounds in capital, but support all the same. And without that support, it’s not just Bangor, but Wales, that would lose this excellent resource. There’s no other university in Britain that owns such a ship. For a university, it’s a very expensive resource, but for a nation that needs to invest in its future, we are talking about relatively small sums of money. I will give you an example of how it could work, and retaining a private, commercial partner as part of the deal too. Bearing in mind that there are years of mapping work that needs to be done—and it needs to be done for the economic benefit of Wales—if the Welsh Government became a partner in the Prince Madog as a national maritime research vessel, investing in 50 days a year, shall we say, then that could be enough to save the vessel. And maybe that could just be the start—50 days, some £5,000 a day, £250,000 per annum. That’s all we’re talking about, possibly, for mapping work that has the potential, let’s be honest, to release and to open the way to billions of pounds worth of marine energy projects, as well as being a source of crucial information in the areas of conservation, tourism, leisure, fisheries and food production.
I would argue that it is a very cost-effective means of delivering the data that we need for the future and of providing the necessary scientific analysis, and, in looking at it as support for a world-class school of ocean sciences, then it’s also a means of maintaining and strengthening the foundations for marine research in its broader sense, which also, of course, would provide an economic boost for Wales. This vessel attracts the best students from across the world to Wales.
To summarise, therefore, the prosperity of, and investment in, the blue economy in Wales depends on our understanding of the seas around us. We are in a privileged position of having the ability to carry out this research and we are lucky that we have the Prince Madog already, but let’s not take it for granted. Having left the European Union, there will be more responsibilities placed upon us as regards the management of our natural resources, but, to do that management, we will need the kind of scientific evidence that we simply don’t have at the moment. Wales has the ability to lead the way in tidal technology, and the Government has targets for increasing offshore energy production over the next years. But we must make that investment in energy generation easy, and, to do that, we need data and we need mapping.
The EU’s ambition, as I said earlier, is to map all of its seas. Ireland, as I said, is investing in this area already. But, at the moment, Wales still has no such programme in place and the Prince Madog is the key to that.
The Prince Madog is the key to future Welsh maritime research. It's the key to providing the science, providing the data, the evidence, to make the most of our maritime resources. We have to map our shores and sea bed or we get left behind. The majority of high-resolution imagery of the Welsh sea beds done to date has actually been produced by the RV Prince Madog. It's the best for the job. That has been done through the Welsh European Funding Office funded SEACAMS operation, but that operation will end soon.
Other nations are commissioning new research vessels, with Ireland deciding to update its fleet recently. We already have the ship that we need. Future investment and development in commercial marine activities would be significantly encouraged by establishing a national strategy for marine data gathering, developed in co-ordination with small and medium-sized enterprises and agencies, and this could be underpinned by the Prince Madog being recognised and invested in as our national marine research vessel. It's likely that this valuable resource, as it stands, will be lost to Wales if we don't have such a national strategy.
Tra môr yn fur i'r bur hoff bau—as long as the sea is there, says our national anthem, it will take care of our ancient nation. I paraphrase a bit. But let us look after and look into our sea like we've never done before. We have the platform to do it. It's called the Prince Madog. It could be our national maritime research vessel.
Y Prince Madog yw'r allwedd i ymchwil forol Cymru yn y dyfodol. Mae'n allweddol ar gyfer darparu'r wyddoniaeth, darparu'r data, y dystiolaeth, i wneud y mwyaf o'n hadnoddau morol. Rhaid inni fapio ein glannau a gwely'r môr, neu fe gawn ein gadael ar ôl. Lluniwyd y rhan fwyaf o'r delweddau eglur iawn o wely'r môr yng Nghymru hyd yma gan y Prince Madog. Dyma'r llong orau ar gyfer y gwaith. Gwnaethpwyd hynny drwy weithgarwch SEACAMS a ariannwyd gan Swyddfa Cyllid Ewropeaidd Cymru, ond bydd y gweithgarwch hwnnw'n dod i ben cyn bo hir.
Mae gwledydd eraill yn comisiynu llongau ymchwil newydd, ac mae Iwerddon wedi penderfynu adnewyddu ei fflyd yn ddiweddar. Mae gennym y llong sydd ei hangen arnom yn barod. Byddai buddsoddi a datblygu gweithgareddau morol masnachol yn y dyfodol yn cael hwb sylweddol drwy sefydlu strategaeth genedlaethol ar gyfer casglu data morol a ddatblygir ar y cyd ag asiantaethau a busnesau bach a chanolig, a gallai hyn fod yn seiliedig ar gydnabod y Prince Madog a buddsoddi ynddi fel ein llong ymchwil forol genedlaethol. Mae'n debygol y bydd yr adnodd gwerthfawr hwn fel y mae yn cael ei golli yng Nghymru os na fydd gennym strategaeth genedlaethol o'r fath.
'Tra môr yn fur i'r bur hoff bau'
—cyhyd â bod y môr yno, medd ein hanthem genedlaethol, bydd yn gofalu am ein cenedl hen. Rwy'n aralleirio ychydig. Ond gadewch inni edrych ar ôl, ac edrych i mewn i'n môr fel na wnaethom erioed o'r blaen. Mae gennym blatfform i wneud hynny. Ei henw yw'r Prince Madog. Gallai fod yn llong ymchwil forol genedlaethol i ni.
I visited the School of Ocean Sciences at Bangor University in Menai. I did question the Cabinet Secretary about this in February, when I said:
'Sea bed surveying and mapping are of key importance to our economy. The Irish have already acted on this. The EU is now starting too. There's a danger that both Wales and the UK will be left behind. Bangor University has the biggest university-run sea bed research vessel in the UK, the Prince Madog, which is key both to our economy and to fisheries management as we look to the future. But, it's only funded to 2020. What action will the Welsh Government therefore take to ensure critical and sustainable future funding, and to incorporate sea bed research into a strategic national plan?'
The Cabinet Secretary replied that she was
'aware that Bangor University are looking to identify future strategic scientific work for the Prince Madog'
but, she said:
'It is a commercial matter for the universities and others in the consortium'
so she wasn't able to comment any further. Well, the School of Ocean Sciences told me that, although the vessel is jointly owned and run, future Welsh Government funding and development of a strategic national plan will be critical. So, we're talking about a key national strategic asset, not simply private or commercially sensitive discussions. I hope therefore the Cabinet Secretary's response now will be more reflective both of the threat but also the opportunity that we're discussing now.
Ymwelais ag Ysgol Gwyddorau Eigion Prifysgol Bangor ar y Fenai. Fe holais i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ynglŷn â hyn ym mis Chwefror, pan ddywedais:
'Mae arolygu a mapio gwely'r môr yn hanfodol bwysig i'n heconomi. Mae Iwerddon eisoes wedi rhoi camau ar waith ar hyn. Mae'r UE yn dechrau gwneud hynny bellach hefyd. Mae perygl y bydd Cymru a'r DU ar ei hôl hi yn hyn o beth. Llong ymchwil Prifysgol Bangor, y Prince Madog, yw'r llong ymchwil gwely'r môr fwyaf yn y DU sy'n eiddo i brifysgol, ac mae'n allweddol i'n heconomi ac i'r gwaith o reoli pysgodfeydd wrth inni edrych at y dyfodol. Ond ni fydd yn cael ei ariannu wedi 2020. Pa gamau y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd, felly, i sicrhau cyllid hanfodol a chynaliadwy yn y dyfodol, ac i ymgorffori ymchwil gwely'r môr mewn cynllun strategol cenedlaethol?'
Atebodd yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet ei bod yn
'ymwybodol fod Prifysgol Bangor yn awyddus i nodi gwaith gwyddonol strategol ar gyfer y Prince Madog yn y dyfodol'
ond, dywedodd:
'Mae'n fater masnachol ar gyfer y prifysgolion a sefydliadau eraill yn y consortiwm'
felly ni allai roi unrhyw sylw pellach. Wel, dywedodd yr Ysgol Gwyddorau Eigion wrthyf, er bod y llong mewn cydberchnogaeth ac yn cael ei rhedeg ar y cyd, bydd arian Llywodraeth Cymru a datblygu cynllun strategol cenedlaethol yn y dyfodol yn hollbwysig. Felly, rydym yn sôn am ased strategol cenedlaethol allweddol, nid trafodaethau preifat neu fasnachol sensitif. Gobeithiaf, felly, y bydd ymateb Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn awr yn fwy ystyriol o'r bygythiad, ond hefyd o'r cyfle rydym yn ei drafod yn awr.
Thank you. Can I now call the Cabinet Secretary for Energy, Planning and Rural Affairs to reply to the debate? Lesley Griffiths.
Diolch. A gaf fi alw yn awr ar Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Ynni, Cynllunio a Materion Gwledig i ymateb i'r ddadl? Lesley Griffiths.
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'm very pleased to respond to this short debate regarding Prince Madog, brought forward by Rhun ap Iorwerth, and also to have the opportunity to discuss the marine part of my portfolio, which I don't think perhaps we do enough in this Chamber.
We all share a commitment to clean, healthy, safe, productive and biologically diverse seas. This means Government working with all of our stakeholders to have robust evidence to enable informed and integrated assessment of the state of our seas. As Rhun pointed out, this research, I think, will be even more important as we exit the EU and plan how we manage the condition and use of our seas in the future.
I'm currently considering the responses to our first marine plan and that sets out our marine policies and management, which will be underpinned by good evidence. The Government is already part of a range of marine monitoring and assessment work programmes, including the achievement of good environmental status through the UK marine strategy. These programmes exist to provide the evidence to understand and respond to the health, condition, productivity and resilience of Welsh seas. They also provide an understanding of the key pressures on the marine ecosystem and interactions with human activity.
Specific priority areas for collection include biodiversity data, both within marine protected areas and the wider marine environment, biological and landing data on stocks caught by commercial and recreational fisheries, data to assess the impact of human activities on the marine ecosystem, detailed data on the capacity and activity of fishing, and social, economic and environmental data on fisheries and aquaculture.
In developing policy, we also take account of evidence presented through the 'Wales' Marine Evidence Report', 'The State of Natural Resources Report' for Wales, and the online marine planning evidence portal. We also commission and support targeted research on a wide range of marine subjects. In recent years, this has included reports on marine protected areas management and condition, reviews of aggregate dredging, assessing the impacts of fisheries' activities, studies of scallop dredging and assessments of the potential of aquaculture. We also have significant further evidence-related activity under way or planned, and some examples are development of a new marine biodiversity monitoring programme, various aquaculture studies, and research on marine energy development.
With an eye to EU exit shortly after the referendum, I assembled a round-table group of representative stakeholders to seek their help to identify and understand the potential challenges and opportunities Brexit presents for Wales. The seas and coast sub-group, formed from members of the round-table and the existing Wales marine advisory and action group, has helped provide a focus on our consideration of Brexit and our seas. [Interruption.]
I'm sorry about this. Thank you very much.
So, the members have worked with me and the rest of the Government to shape five key themes to work towards as we leave the European Union to further guide our policy development, and one of these themes is standing on our two feet by enhancing our marine science and data collection capability. So, working with academia at a strategic and operational level is very much an important component of our research work, and the School of Ocean Sciences at Bangor University have been a very valuable partner to us in recent years.
Compared to the terrestrial environment, there is sometimes limited evidence on the status of the marine environment and the impact of human activities on it, and such evidence can be expensive and technically challenging to collect, which is why I do appreciate that research vessels like the Prince Madog can play an important role. I think the point that Rhun ap Iorwerth made about not losing such a valuable asset is very important.
So, in the first instance, what I've asked my officials to do is meet with Bangor University to see what problems they're facing, and to see how we can help. I too would also like to visit so I can have a photograph, like Rhun, on the vessel. I heard your call for a status of a national maritime ship. It's something we need to, obviously, look into. Again, around funding, obviously I can't commit, but I would be very happy to have those discussions with them. During my oral Assembly questions session this afternoon, I said to Rhun that Anglesey is becoming a real hub for tidal energy, and I think that part of north-west Wales is becoming even more important to the marine part of my portfolio.
So, I'd be very happy to do that, and update Rhun and other Members in due course. Diolch.
Diolch ichi, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n falch iawn o ymateb i'r ddadl fer hon ynghylch y Prince Madog a gyflwynwyd gan Rhun ap Iorwerth, a hefyd i gael cyfle i drafod y rhan o fy mhortffolio sy'n ymwneud â'r môr, testun nad wyf yn meddwl ein bod yn trafod digon arno yn y Siambr hon o bosibl.
Rydym i gyd yn rhannu ymrwymiad i foroedd glân, iach, diogel, cynhyrchiol ac amrywiol yn fiolegol. Golyga hyn fod y Llywodraeth yn gweithio gyda'n holl randdeiliaid i gael tystiolaeth gadarn er mwyn gallu cael asesiad deallus a chyfunol o gyflwr ein moroedd. Fel y nododd Rhun, credaf y bydd yr ymchwil yn bwysicach byth wrth inni adael yr UE a chynllunio sut rydym yn rheoli cyflwr a defnydd o'n moroedd yn y dyfodol.
Rwyf ar hyn o bryd yn ystyried yr ymatebion i'n cynllun morol cyntaf ac mae'n nodi ein polisïau a'n rheolaeth forol, a fydd yn seiliedig ar dystiolaeth dda. Mae'r Llywodraeth eisoes yn rhan o amrywiaeth o raglenni gwaith i fonitro ac asesu'r môr, gan gynnwys cyflawni statws amgylcheddol da drwy strategaeth forol y DU. Mae'r rhaglenni hyn yn bodoli i ddarparu'r dystiolaeth i ddeall ac ymateb i iechyd, cyflwr, cynhyrchiant a gwydnwch moroedd Cymru. Maent hefyd yn darparu dealltwriaeth o'r pwysau allweddol ar ecosystemau morol a'r rhyngweithio a geir â gweithgaredd dynol.
Mae meysydd blaenoriaeth penodol ar gyfer casglu data yn cynnwys data ar fioamrywiaeth mewn ardaloedd morol gwarchodedig ac yn yr amgylchedd morol ehangach, data biolegol a data glanio ar gyfer stociau a ddaliwyd gan bysgodfeydd masnachol a hamdden, data i asesu effaith gweithgareddau dynol ar yr ecosystem forol, data manwl ar gapasiti a gweithgarwch pysgota a data cymdeithasol, economaidd ac amgylcheddol ar bysgodfeydd a dyframaeth.
Wrth ddatblygu polisi, rydym hefyd yn ystyried tystiolaeth a gyflwynwyd drwy 'Adroddiad Tystiolaeth Morol Cymru', yr 'Adroddiad ar Sefyllfa Adnoddau Naturiol' ar gyfer Cymru a'r porth tystiolaeth cynllunio morol ar-lein. Rydym hefyd yn comisiynu ac yn cefnogi gwaith ymchwil wedi'i dargedu ar amrywiaeth eang o bynciau morol. Yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf, mae hyn wedi cynnwys adroddiadau ar reolaeth a chyflwr ardaloedd morol gwarchodedig, adolygiadau o garthu agregau, asesu effeithiau gweithgareddau pysgodfeydd, astudiaethau treillio am gregyn bylchog ac asesiadau o botensial dyframaethu. Hefyd mae gennym gryn dipyn o weithgaredd pellach sy'n gysylltiedig â thystiolaeth ar y gweill neu wedi'i gynllunio, ac mae rhai o'r enghreifftiau'n cynnwys datblygu rhaglen fonitro bioamrywiaeth forol newydd, amrywiol astudiaethau dyframaeth, ac ymchwil ar ddatblygu ynni morol.
Gyda golwg ar adael yr UE yn fuan ar ôl y refferendwm, sefydlais grŵp bwrdd crwn o randdeiliaid cynrychioliadol i ofyn am eu help i nodi a deall yr heriau a'r cyfleoedd posibl y mae Brexit yn eu cynnig i Gymru. Mae is-grŵp y moroedd a'r arfordir, a ffurfiwyd o aelodau o'r bwrdd crwn a grŵp cynghori a gweithredu presennol Cymru ar faterion morol, wedi helpu i roi ffocws ar ein hystyriaeth o Brexit a'n moroedd. [Torri ar draws.]
Mae'n ddrwg gennyf am hyn. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Felly, mae'r aelodau wedi gweithio gyda mi a gweddill y Llywodraeth i lunio'r pum thema allweddol i weithio tuag atynt wrth inni adael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd i arwain ein datblygiadau polisi ymhellach, ac un o'r themâu hyn yw sefyll ar ein traed ein hunain drwy wella ein gallu mewn gwyddoniaeth forol a chasglu data. Felly, mae gweithio gyda'r byd academaidd ar lefel strategol a gweithredol yn bendant yn elfen bwysig o'n gwaith ymchwil, ac mae Ysgol Gwyddorau Eigion Prifysgol Bangor wedi bod yn bartner gwerthfawr iawn i ni yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf.
O gymharu â'r amgylchedd ar y tir, weithiau mae'r dystiolaeth ar statws yr amgylchedd morol ac effaith gweithgareddau dynol arno'n brin, a gall tystiolaeth o'r fath fod yn gostus a heriol yn dechnegol i'w chasglu, a dyna pam rwy'n deall y gall cychod ymchwil fel y Prince Madog chwarae rôl bwysig. Credaf fod y pwynt a wnaeth Rhun ap Iorwerth am beidio â cholli ased mor werthfawr yn bwysig iawn.
Felly, yn y lle cyntaf, yr hyn rwyf wedi gofyn i fy swyddogion ei wneud yw cyfarfod â Phrifysgol Bangor i weld pa broblemau y maent yn eu hwynebu, ac i weld sut y gallwn helpu. Hoffwn innau ymweld â hwy hefyd er mwyn i mi gael llun ohonof ar y llong fel Rhun. Clywais eich galwad am statws llong forol genedlaethol. Mae'n rhywbeth y mae angen inni edrych arno wrth gwrs. Unwaith eto, ynglŷn â chyllid, yn amlwg ni allaf ymrwymo, ond buaswn yn hapus iawn i gael y trafodaethau hynny gyda hwy. Yn ystod sesiwn cwestiynau llafar y Cynulliad y prynhawn yma, dywedais wrth Rhun fod Ynys Môn yn tyfu'n ganolbwynt go iawn ar gyfer ynni llanw, ac rwy'n meddwl bod y rhan honno o ogledd-orllewin Cymru yn dod yn bwysicach byth i'r rhan o fy mhortffolio sy'n ymwneud â'r môr.
Felly, buaswn yn hapus iawn i wneud hynny, a rhoi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i Rhun a'r Aelodau eraill maes o law. Diolch.
Thank you. That brings today's proceedings to a close. Thank you very much.
Diolch. Daw hynny â thrafodion heddiw i ben. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 18:22.
The meeting ended at 18:22.