Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru

This week is Welsh Charities Week and there are thousands of charities around Wales that are helping to support people and to transform lives. And we're pleased, as a Welsh Labour Government, to be supporting them and the armies of volunteers that support these charities. Our funding enables targeted support on volunteering, on funding, safeguarding, and good governance for voluntary sector organisations, large and small, across Wales.

Diolch, First Minister. In charities week, I want to pay tribute to all of Wales’s charities, and they do indeed form the backbone of community life in towns, villages and cities right across our country. I welcome the Welsh Government’s commitment to supporting Welsh charities, with £10.9 million funding to Third Sector Support Wales, which is an increase of £2.3 million on last year. Twenty-seven per cent of people in Wales volunteer formally with charities and organisations. First Minister, will you join me in thanking and paying tribute to those many thousands of individuals who do work tirelessly, often in a voluntary capacity, right across Wales?

Diolch yn fawr, Joyce, and I will join you in thanking them. It's quite remarkable how many people do volunteer—27 per cent of the population is a large proportion of the population, and I would pay tribute to them. It's not only good for the people they serve, but it's good for them as well, and I know a lot of people get a lot of enrichment in their own lives as a result of that. To support the work that volunteers do, the Welsh Government is investing more than £3.57 million directly into volunteering this year, and, as you say, that is an increase on previous years. Through the Wales Council for Voluntary Action, and the county voluntary councils, charities also receive targeted support, including grants that help young people lead change locally and make a positive difference in their communities.

I'd like to focus my contribution and my question on the immense contribution made by charities in Wales to the palliative care sector. I visited St David's Hospice Care in Newport last week, where I met the chief executive officer, Emma Saysell, again. I was told during my meeting that, like many other charities, St David's Hospice Care is not generating the same income through the shops as they once did. This has been partly attributed to the rise of reselling websites. This changing trend compounds the financial situation that some charities find themselves in. It also underlines Plaid Cymru's call for a new financial settlement for end-of-life care services. This should not be seen as a case of filling funding gaps, but more as a long-term investment in the health needs of our population. We should not allow this funding situation to get worse without addressing it. So, do you agree with me that charities doing vital and comforting work like palliative care should be placed on a firmer financial footing than is currently the case? And, if you do, why are we in the situation that we're in currently?

Well, I'd like to pay tribute, also, to those organisations who are helping people with end-of-life care, and there are many, many organisations across the country. I've been also to visit St David's Hospice Care, and the remarkable thing is that it's not just in a building; actually, it's the amount of work where people go into people's homes, giving that end-of-life support, which is actually where most people want to be cared for in their last days. 

We have taken this seriously. It's not something you can fix overnight. We've had a very clear, phased programme of work in relation to hospice funding and end-of-life care. We have been reviewing that funding, and we recognise that if these are not there, there will be a knock-on effect to our hospitals. So, we are continuing with that work, with that three-phased approach. I think the first two phases have already been addressed, and now the third phase is more in that space of how we look at funding in future.

First Minister, charities in Wales are struggling to cope, thanks to the policies of the UK Government. The cost-of-living crisis is hitting charitable donations at a time when Government policies are making employing staff especially costly. With the UK Government's leadership more interested in enriching themselves and their mates, as well as clinging on to power, the situation facing our charities sector is not likely to improve any time soon. Therefore, First Minister, what additional support can the Welsh Government offer the charitable sector in Wales, who provide such vital public services, like, as you already said, hospices, and lifeboats?

Thank you, Altaf. I'm very aware that these crucial organisations are facing an increased demand for services, that they are seeing pressure on incomes, they're seeing rising costs and challenges with recruitment and retention of staff and volunteers. That is why we have introduced a three-year Third Sector Support Wales programme, which represents a 7 per cent uplift to support organisations working in some of Wales's most disadvantaged communities. On top of that, we're co-developing a new funding code and a new approach for volunteering, to make it easier for charities to operate and to focus on prevention.

Good afternoon, First Minister. I wanted to raise the issue of rural charities. In Llandrindod Wells, we have the only branch in Powys of the Samaritans, which we know provides absolutely vital mental health and suicide support to many residents. Yet this branch, like many of the Samaritans branches across the UK, faces closure. Across Powys, we're seeing other charities affected as well. Cymryd Rhan in Llanidloes closed its doors in March last year, after 40 years of service. The Breconshire Care Association closed its doors in September, after three decades of supporting adults with learning disabilities. Many charities fill in the gaps in statutory services. But not only that; we know that people actually prefer to go to third sector organisations instead of fronting up to statutory organisations, of which they may be fearful or anxious about. We've heard different perspectives, but, in rural areas, those organisations need long-term contracts. You've mentioned the multi-year funding, yet how can we ensure that that gets to those rural communities where statutory services are not present and, actually, those organisations meet the vital needs of the rural communities? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thank you. I regularly meet with representatives from the third sector, with my constituency hat on, including those in places like Powys. They're always keen to set out some of the challenges that they are facing, including telling me about organisations like the Samaritans. Of course, I would like to pay tribute to the tremendous work that they do. Mind Cymru—. There are all kinds of organisations that are really supporting people with a very difficult time in their lives. The Welsh Government, of course, have other services available. The '111 press 2' service has been significantly used. People are seeing a huge change in terms of the support in relation to mental health, so that 95 per cent of young people receive an assessment within 28 days. Now, that is a sea change, compared to what was there before. That's why early intervention, as far as I'm concerned, is critical. But we will continue to support the voluntary sector, not just in urban areas, but, of course, across rural areas, where, actually, people sometimes want to see somebody face to face and are more comfortable in those local environments.

The Welsh Government is playing a pivotal role in the transformation of Wrexham through our support for the Wrexham Gateway, alongside local partners. This has been the case since the start of the project. Now, we know the improving performance of Wrexham AFC has electrified the town and ensured that that city is able to host international football, and that's central to the vision. The commencement of construction of the Kop stand at the Racecourse ground marks a momentous point as the project moves into the delivery phase.

Thank you for that answer. The Wrexham Gateway project really has the potential to deliver something truly special for our city. It's something I've long supported, and the partnership is determined to deliver this game-changing redevelopment. The transformation will see Wrexham general station become a major transport hub. The new Kop stand you've just referred to at the Racecourse will restore international football to the city, and there will be new office space, a public plaza and, hopefully, a new Wrexham Lager brewery, tap room and a shop. The Welsh Government got the ball rolling by outlining initial grant funding of £25 million back in 2021, and you've now come with a further £1.5 million to specifically address the infrastructure constraints on the western side of the site. Last week, I visited George Powell and team at the Wrexham Miners Project's rescue centre. They're communicating with partners to try and seek to build a 200 space car park at the rear of their property, which would really help, and I think it would really add great value to that redevelopment. So, First Minister, I, along with all my constituents, value the Welsh Government's ongoing support, but would you be able to provide any further updates, because I'm sure you'd agree it's really important to keep the momentum going over the next few months?

I agree with that, and thank you for your championing of this project, which I do think is transformational for the city. As you say, we had £25 million awarded in 2021 to give that confidence boost, that they can progress with this project. That high-quality office accommodation, I think, is also going to be transformational. We're talking about 600 people being able to house themselves in that accommodation. Of course, putting that next door to a transport hub means, hopefully, we wouldn't need to see quite as many car parking spaces as we would otherwise. So, that hub, the transport model, and understanding that all of this needs to fit together with the transformation of the town that we're supporting beyond that, with the Transforming Towns support, I hope, is driving a real feeling of hope in the city and that this is a city that's going places.

First Minister, I certainly support the work at the Wrexham Gateway project, and the involvement of the Welsh Government to financially support that as well. As we've already heard, it has the opportunity to be transformative for that part of Wrexham, by improving that transport infrastructure, creating a modern business space, and connecting communities through the transport improvements as well.

Around the corner from that particular site is Wrexham Maelor Hospital, and I've led a campaign there to see parking improvements at the hospital. I think it's a really good opportunity, with the investment going on at the Wrexham Gateway, to see the parking issues also resolved at the hospital, because the knock-on effect in that part of Wrexham is quite significant. So, would you be keen to see good partnership working with the Wrexham Gateway project, working with Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board, to see what solutions can be brought forward to solve that problem at the same sort of site?

I think partnership is exactly what we've been talking about in this area, and this already has an outstanding partnership: the Welsh Government, Wrexham County Borough Council, Transport for Wales and Wrexham University. I think it's important that they are recognised, and their plans in terms of transformation of their campus are also critical to the future. But, you're right, there's no reason why Betsi Cadwaladr shouldn't look at how they could contribute to the change where there are synergies. But we recognise that, actually, the fact is that we've had years of underinvestment, of capital funding being strangled, and not being in a position where we could invest in our hospitals. I'm really glad that now we've got additional funding and that we are in a position, I hope, to look to the future, being able to focus more attention and to put capital into some of those programmes for the future.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd. Last week, I wrote to the First Minister to ask her to formally investigate whether Peter Mandelson's actions, including his sharing of Government information with convicted paedophile Jeffrey Epstein, had in any way undermined the Welsh national interest. I welcome the fact that she has agreed to my request, and I look forward to putting the evidence in the public domain.

The Prime Minister appointed Peter Mandelson as the UK's ambassador to the United States, despite knowing of his continued relationship with Epstein. That is not the level of judgment one would expect of a Prime Minister. Does the First Minister agree with me on that? Assuming that she does, why didn't she come out and say so publicly immediately?

Can I start by saying that Keir Starmer was elected with a clear mandate to be the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom? I support him in the job that he was elected to do. When Labour succeeds in Government, the people of Wales become better off, and that is my key concern. My job as First Minister is to improve the lives of people in Wales, not to provide a running commentary on Westminster politics. 

I have never been a fan of Peter Mandelson. I never felt that he held the same kind of values as we do in Welsh Labour. The recent revelations that he shared sensitive Government information with somebody who could benefit financially I think are a low that many people hadn't expected. But also, of course, what is important now is that Keir Starmer takes this opportunity to refocus the issues relating to Epstein onto the women and girls who have been abused. That's where the focus needs to be and that's where the focus needs to stay. I think that the Prime Minister is an honourable man, he's committed to public service, and I think that he wants to do right by the country.

Her attack of Peter Mandelson is no doubt justified; her continued defence of the Prime Minister, of course, raises more questions. Whatever the depths of chaos in Downing Street, the First Minister's record is one of, ultimately, defaulting to supporting Keir Starmer. But here's a First Minister not knowing, on this occasion, which way to turn. Having failed to join the criticism of Keir Starmer yesterday, neither did she come out to defend him until a day later, with a statement this morning. But I guess that it was inevitable that she would in the end.

The Secretary of State for Wales pledged her unstinting support for the Prime Minister, Labour MPs were apparently infuriated at the First Minister's silence—and yes, this morning, the First Minister did follow suit. So much for independence of thought. She is meant to be the boss, but it's clearly Labour MPs calling the shots. Remembering that this is the most anti-devolution Welsh Secretary for decades, according to one senior Labour colleague, isn't it the case that Jo Stevens really does have the First Minister in her pocket?

I am focused on the needs of the people of this country. I do not jump up in the middle of a Cabinet meeting to respond to issues going on in Westminster. That is not the way you run a country. I'm absolutely clear that I'm here to focus on the tangible difference that we can make in people's lives. Today we're announcing the fact that we've hit the 100,000 apprenticeship target. That makes a difference to people in our communities. Today we have seen 20 renewable energy projects being approved. That, again, will create hundreds of jobs in our communities. I am not here to give a running commentary on what happens in Westminster. 

It must have been a very long Cabinet meeting if it started yesterday afternoon and you couldn't get a statement out until this morning. But the real reason why the First Minister is so passive when it comes to passing judgment on the Prime Minister is because she is equally as weakened as he is. She has invested so much political capital in supporting him she can't back down now. But the tragedy is that she gets nothing in return for her loyalty—no goodies, as she would put it. The Prime Minister has devolved none of the powers that the First Minister says she supports, Wales is still underfunded, there are still no consequentials for HS2. In calling for the Prime Minister's resignation yesterday, her Scottish counterpart, Anas Sarwar, said that he was putting the interests of Scotland first. The First Minister of Wales decided to perch on the fence for a while before falling on her party leader's side. Did she not feel tempted to stand up for the interests of Wales on this occasion?

Let me be clear—I think that it will save some time and I'm not going to be sidetracked by this: I was elected to run Wales, not to provide a running commentary on Westminster politics. I find it genuinely incredible that after more than 25 years of devolution, the office of First Minister is still treated as a pundit's chair rather than as the head of a democratic Government. You are not in the BBC any longer, Rhun. This is a Senedd; it is not a studio. It's not a talking shop, it's the seat of the Welsh democracy, and every time it's reduced to gossip about what's happening elsewhere, the people of Wales are being short-changed.

First Minister, it is abundantly clear to everyone that your statement of support today for the Prime Minister is mealy-mouthed. It doesn't say, and at no point have you said, that you have full confidence in the Prime Minister or his leadership. Of course, it's hardly surprising, because in recent months you've been slagging the Prime Minister off at every opportunity. Just weeks ago you made it clear that the Prime Minister wasn't welcome in Wales to campaign unless he brought some goodies with him. When you were asked time and time again in an interview with the BBC whether he was doing a good job, you refused to say whether you thought he was doing a good job or not.

This is a man who appointed Peter Mandelson to the most powerful and important diplomatic posting that this country has, in the full knowledge that Peter Mandelson had maintained a close relationship with a convicted paedophile. Isn't the truth of the matter that you didn't have the guts to call for the resignation of the Prime Minister yesterday? Instead, you bottled it. At least the Labour leader in Scotland had the courage to speak out. But you sat there in silence, in your bunker, waiting to see what would happen, waiting for a member of the UK Government's Cabinet to be able to jump first. It is absolutely pathetic. So, can you, for clarity's sake, right now, tell us: does the Prime Minister have your full confidence—yes or no?

Yes, he does. I contacted him after our Cabinet meeting, because it's my job to be in the Cabinet meeting, to let him know that he has my support, prior to that meeting with the parliamentary Labour Party last night. I think this country has had enough of changing Prime Ministers every couple of years. The idea of a Tory asking me about the performance of the Prime Minister is, frankly, laughable. Darren, you were an apologist for Rishi Sunak, you were a supporter of Liz Truss, you were a cheerleader for Boris Johnson, you were an applauder of Theresa May, you were a proponent of David Cameron. All of these people made a major contribution to crashing the economy and leaving us with the situation we have today, where people are struggling to pay their bills. My job is to help them, and that's what I'm focused on doing.

It's good to at least have some clarity. You're now kowtowing, of course, to Sir Keir Starmer in the same way that he kowtowed to the Chinese on his recent visit. What I want to talk about is those victims. You quite rightly referred to the victims of Epstein in your statement that was issued earlier today, but I'm afraid that there are victims of abuse also here in Wales that you've had very little regard for.

It's over 12 months since I challenged you to set up a grooming gang inquiry here in Wales. You told me 12 months ago that there was no need for a grooming gang inquiry, there was no evidence of grooming gangs operating here in Wales. That was in spite of the fact that Emily Vaughn had spoken publicly about her horrific experiences of abuse, and that the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse had found evidence of grooming gangs operating here in Wales, particularly around the Swansea area.

In February last year, your party—and Plaid, I'm afraid—voted against a Welsh Conservative motion calling for a grooming gang inquiry. You also refused, and still refuse, to publish correspondence with Welsh police forces, councils and other stakeholders on the operation of grooming gangs here in Wales. We know that the UK Government announced that it was going to have a UK-wide grooming gang inquiry in June, but nothing seems to have happened since, and other cases of grooming gangs operating in Wales are coming forward. Can you tell us, First Minister, where is that inquiry up to, why are you dragging your feet, and when will victims here in Wales see some progress?

We take the issue of violence against women and women's exploitation when it comes to the way they are treated in our communities very seriously. That's why we will very shortly be publishing a report on what we intend to do as a Government in relation to that. The UK grooming gang inquiry is the UK Government leading on that. We have, of course, made it clear that we are very keen to make sure that Wales is included and taken seriously, and that witness statements from the kinds of people who may have been victims should be taken seriously as well in relation to that. In relation to women and girls, the kind of language that we saw in the Epstein files is, frankly, abhorrent and appalling. It's misogynistic and unacceptable. I, as a woman First Minister of Wales, am absolutely determined to stand with women in Wales, and to make sure that they are not exploited.  

I'm afraid, First Minister, that actions speak louder than words. You will know that we had correspondence; I asked you to meet with Emily Vaughn in order to discuss her experiences. You refused and declined to do so, but you did say that she would be invited to engage with the Welsh Government on the shape of the grooming gang inquiry that you were going to be involved with alongside the UK Government. I understand there's been no meeting since. This was months ago, First Minister. If you are really urgent and serious about getting to grips with this issue, I would've expected to have seen more progress and more statements made to this Senedd on this important issue. 

Of course, it's not just grooming gangs, it's not just the appointment of Peter Mandelson and then the judgment of the Prime Minister being brought into question. Today actually marks the 300 days since the Supreme Court ruled that sex for the purposes of the Equality Act 2010 means biological sex. We need to make sure that women and girls in Wales have access to safe spaces, but we are still waiting for your Welsh Government to publish clear guidance for the public sector in Wales to ensure that women and girls have access to those safe spaces. I want to see action, not just words. Can you explain to women and girls today, 300 days on from that Supreme Court judgment, why you're dragging your feet on issuing guidance? Why are you ignoring the rights of women and girls, and why won't you act?

We're waiting for guidance from the UK Government. That's what we're waiting for. Let me be clear: I'm not engaging in culture wars. What I am keen to do is to protect victims and to protect vulnerable people wherever they are, especially in Wales.

There is enormous pressure on the Welsh NHS, which is why it's important for the Government to set priorities for health boards. These have already been issued for the next 12 months. But it is the responsibility of the health boards to determine how best to deliver health services, as they are in a position to assess their ability to deliver against those local needs. All NHS organisations are expected to submit plans by 31 March, demonstrating how they will deliver against these strategic priorities.

First Minister, the main priority for the Welsh Government should be safeguarding and protecting services at Withybush Hospital, so that patients from across Preseli Pembrokeshire are not forced to travel further afield for vital and essential services. As you know, Hywel Dda University Health Board is considering options to transform nine clinical service areas, and some of those options will result in centralising services further afield for my constituents. First Minister, as a co-representative of the people of Preseli Pembrokeshire, I hope you'll do everything you can to stand up for them and oppose any changes that force them to travel further for essential care and for essential services. So, can you tell us what representations you've made to Hywel Dda University Health Board about its clinical services plan, and will you make it clear that the Welsh Government will not support any changes that take services away from the people of Pembrokeshire? 

The health board intends to discuss and make a decision on the clinical services plan later this month. I understand how strongly people feel about their local services, which is why I also have been making representations in my capacity as a Senedd Member. I met with the health board representatives, the chief exec and others last week, and I met and I spoke to the chair just on the weekend. So, I can assure you that I am ensuring that the views of the local communities are taken on board, but it will be for them to determine.

I think it is important that what should be driving this is the best possible clinical outcomes for people. And let me just give you a sense of actually how investment is already happening in Withybush General Hospital: £1.18 million to replace in Withybush; £750,000 to replace x-ray equipment; £481,000 to upgrade gamma camera systems at Withybush; £110,000 to replace ultrasound equipment at Withybush; and £27 million to ensure that essential fire enforcement work has taken place, and that’s before we start talking about the significant amount of money, £12.8 million, that was put in to address the challenges around reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete. So, investment is going into Withybush hospital, and I hope you see there that there is plenty of evidence to demonstrate that the people of west Wales will be served.

Thanks to the Welsh Labour Government, Wales is a global leader in managing waste. This demonstrates a Government that is committed to the environment. Since devolution, Wales has transformed from a nation that recycled less than 5 per cent of its municipal waste to now reaching 68 per cent, putting us second in the world for household recycling. We continue to build on these achievements. By funding programmes such as Fly-tipping Action Wales and organisations like Keep Wales Tidy, we are helping communities across Wales by improving their local environment.

Diolch, First Minister. Wales has indeed achieved a reputation, I think, in environmental protection, but also in recycling, as a world leader. A fortnight ago, we held a cross-party meeting in the Pierhead for potential candidates and for Senedd Members to talk about the need, on a cross-party basis, for new legislation to strengthen our hand. It is a strange society we live in now, isn't it, that people drive along in their car and will happily just throw litter out of the windows into the streets and onto our kerbs, cleared up one week and then thrown again the following week. We've also seen the terrible scenes where the criminality of fly-tipping is now becoming a large criminal business that needs to be tackled. Do you agree with me that we need to actually start looking, certainly in the next Senedd, at new legislation that not only strengthens the importance of keeping our environment clean, but also at enforcement, which includes stronger laws to prevent littering, fly-tipping and that criminality, and also to increase the education in this area, and I think also to ensure that we put firmly within our legislative framework that the polluter should pay, and that means educating magistrates and justices within the justice system, so that they understand how serious these offences are, and that the consequences should reflect the cost of clearing up and properly dissuading people from this type of activity?

Thanks, Mick. I do welcome your work as chair of the cross-party group on litter, fly-tipping and reducing waste. I think this is something that really upsets people across Wales. I think it is something where there's a visceral response by the public. They hate seeing litter and they want something to happen. That's why I am pleased, actually, that we are seeing more prosecutions. I think we've seen double the number in recent years. We try to do what we can in terms of presenting 100 trail cameras for local authorities, so that they can ensure those are happening. We're supporting enforcement projects in Neath, Denbighshire, Flintshire and Pembrokeshire, and we're exploring changes to fixed penalties for small-scale fly-tipping and household waste duty of care offences.

I'm sure there's more we can do, and I think it is important for us to continue looking at what further steps we can take and what are the areas we need to focus on. I think, certainly, prosecuting is one of them. You're quite right, in relation to magistrates, of course—the training of magistrates is ultimately a decision for the UK Government through the Lady Chief Justice, and I'm happy to raise that issue with her, so I'll do that.

First Minister, following on from my colleague's question, I have no doubt that this Welsh Government sees littering as quite a trivial matter not worthy of its attention, but it's not a minor issue for residents, it's a visible symbol of neglect. Just take the A4232 in Cardiff, which I have no doubt many Members here travelled along today to get here. It is strewn with litter: plastic bottles, plastic bags, wooden pallets, discarded black bags, and I even think I passed the remnants of a sofa or two. Quite frankly, First Minister, it's not only disgusting, it's embarrassing—a national embarrassment. It is the first image that many will have as they travel into our capital city. What does this say to tourists? What does this say to businesses looking to invest? And what does this actually say to the people who live here and have to see it on a daily basis?

With only weeks remaining in this Parliament, First Minister, I ask whether you will finally show some leadership? Will you use what little time you have to instruct your Labour-controlled council to clean up our streets and road verges and restore a basic sense of pride in our capital, or will this disgraceful inaction be yet another legacy of your failed Government? Thank you.

I think this is an issue we should take really seriously. I think it is very upsetting. People want councils to act, and we're trying to give them the tools to make them act, and that's why I am pleased to see that we have seen that doubling of prosecution figures. The other thing we're trying to do as a Government is to stop litter in the first place, and I'm really pleased to see that we've already banned several commonly littered single-use plastics, and single-use vapes and wet wipes containing plastic are going to be restricted from 2026. That's important. Stopping them from going into the litter in the first place is important. But, yes, more should be done in relation to enforcement. There are fixed-penalty notices, which should be used. I think people are angry about this. I think we all need to make sure that we take our responsibility seriously as well, but also to point out to people, if they are littering, that it is highly unacceptable. 

Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board was placed in special measures due to serious concerns about the safety and quality of services, access to timely care and its operational grip and control. We've been clear about the changes it must make and have published the improvement criteria it must meet. The third annual progress report will be published in March.

Diolch. Recently, I've had to raise serious concerns about this particular health board and the shocking handling of some of my long-standing cases, which defy what you keep saying about the reduction in treatment waiting times. You mentioned yourself it went into special measures in 2015. We're now in 2026. In November 2020 it was pulled out of special measures despite concerns being raised about that happening, but we know that that was just prior to a Senedd election, and it that it should never have been allowed at that time to go out of special measures. Those special measures now have cost well over £100 million. They're level 5, because of the shocking failings in governance, leadership and culture. It's just fair to say they quite often spend well over their budget, often to the tune of around £40 million overspend.

It's sad that this board has seen several chief executives and several chairs; they even sacked the board, and then you put your own board members in. In November concerns were brought in—you brought more experts in, in November, to look at those particular problems that still exist. They've only been there four months, but when will we be receiving an updated report on what they've done in the time they've been there? Also, will you support our calls for an immediate investigation into the workings of this health board? Would you do that, please, on behalf of my constituents—

I've been very generous to you—

—and those across north Wales?

—Janet Finch-Saunders, and to many others this afternoon. I don't know, it must be because it's close to the end of this Senedd, its time, that I'm being this generous, but the First Minister to respond. 

Thank you, Janet. There is clearly more work to be done in Betsi. I think we've got to recognise, though, that improvements have been made since they were placed in special measures. There's a stable board in place, the latest Audit Wales structured assessment recognised strengthened corporate systems of assurance and the concerns about waiting times data—those have been rectified. But there is more work to be done in terms of improving the quality of healthcare for the people of Wales. 

But I do think it's important also to recognise that things are improving for people on the ground. There are 19,000 people working in Betsi, and they need to know that there is recognition that their efforts are also being recognised. There has been a 60 per cent reduction in the number of pathways waiting over two years for treatment. The average waiting time is 21 weeks in Betsi—that is a fact. Two-year waits have been reduced by 81 per cent for orthopaedic treatment. I know that it was really bad, and that is before we open the new Llandudno orthopaedic hub. 

There's a 71 per cent reduction in pathways waiting more than a year for dermatology. That was one of the big red-light issues that I had to deal with as the health Secretary, and look at the difference that has made. So, things are going in the right direction. There is a long way to go still, but I think it's really important to keep up the morale of those 19,000 people working in the health board and to recognise the progress that has been made. 

The Welsh Government is backing pubs and breweries in south-west Wales with significant support, including £8 million in new rates relief for food and drink venues, permanent reliefs worth £250 million a year and £140 million in small business rates relief, benefiting many breweries. These businesses also benefit from the drinks cluster, the food service programme, Perthyn grants of up to £80,000 for community takeover of pubs and skills programmes that help to boost workforce development.

Thank you, First Minister, for that answer. You will know that pubs and breweries are vital community assets. Unfortunately, in Wales, we're just losing far too many of them. Whilst the support that you outlined—any support—is welcome, the Campaign for Real Ale themselves said last week that the one-off, one-year discount was nowhere near enough to stop more pubs from shutting their doors. In England pubs are being offered a 40 per cent discount on business rates bills for the next three years. Unless that is matched by the Welsh Government, what we'll see is pubs in Wales at a competitive disadvantage compared to those pubs over the border. So, how can you demonstrate that you really understand what pubs are going through at the moment—the pub landlords and others that run pubs and breweries across Wales? And what further support can you give them to ensure that our pubs are not only here today, but next year, the year after and long into the future?

I do understand that pubs and other places are under pressure. I do understand that one of the worst times for pubs was when the Tory UK Government interest rates soared, hitting businesses across the country. I think it is important to recognise that, actually, we do have different sizes of pubs in Wales. For example, the average rateable value of properties in Wales is around £19,000, and that compares to £34,000 in England, so it's right for us to adjust to our own models here in Wales. We have, relatively, a high proportion of small properties that qualify for relief, and, just to give you a sense of the difference, the cost of our small business rates relief is equivalent to 10 per cent of total rates revenue in Wales; in England, it's 4 per cent.

We want all animals in Wales to have a good quality of life. Our 'Animal Welfare Plan for Wales 2021 to 2026' has already delivered improvements through better support and training for local authorities, funded by Welsh Government and delivered by Animal Licensing Wales. We're moving to ban greyhound racing and we're prioritising proposals to regulate animal welfare establishments, including rescue and rehoming centres.

Thank you, First Minister. I welcome that statement and the actions that are being taken. How we treat animals is a sign of the type of society we are and want to be. If we allow animals to be mistreated, either by ignorance or cruelty, then it reflects badly on us. There's substantial evidence that a wide range of animals are, in fact, sentient beings. Progress has been made in recent years in Wales. We have passed a law on wild animals and circuses, one on banning snares and one making it compulsory for CCTV to be installed in all areas where live animals are unloaded, kept, handled and stunned.

On horses, the prevalence of poor tethering practice suggests that the code of practice is not effective. I'm asking for more stringent guidance, changes in enforcement practice and a change in legislation to better discourage and deter the long-term tethering of horses, which quite often happens in areas that are almost devoid of grass and where they are left out in the rain, and we have an awful lot of that in Wales.

Thanks, Mike. I think we should be really proud of our record on animal welfare in the Welsh Labour Government. I'm really proud of all of the measures that we've taken to improve conditions for animals in Wales, including Lucy's law, which I know Lesley Griffiths was keen to make sure got on to the statute books.

Just on tethering, it isn't illegal, but it should never be used as a long-term management system. Our code of practice is already very clear on this and sets out strict conditions for tethering, including access to water, food, shelter and regular supervision. Our code of practice was updated in 2018, following expert advice from Animal Welfare Network Wales, including the equine welfare sector. Where welfare standards are not being met, local authorities need to investigate and, where necessary, need to seize the animals that are suffering.

Diolch yn fawr, Heledd Fychan. Isn't it great that we have such an enthusiastic young person who wants to represent Wales and has shown his great talent and skill as well? As you know, of course, these matters are not devolved, in terms of his status in terms of immigration status, but I would be grateful if you could share this representation with me so that I can follow it up with the Minister in the UK Government.

Trefnydd, I'd like to call for two statements today, if I may, the first from the Minister for Mental Health and Well-being in relation to gambling harm services. We know that the gambling levy comes to Wales, a proportion of that, in order to support problem gamblers and to take action and invest in prevention work. But I've recently been contacted by Ara Recovery because the Scottish Government has already published its commissioning model for the future of services in Scotland. That is also the case in England, with regard to the UK Government, but Wales seems to be lagging behind. There's no clarity as to what's going to happen from 1 April, and we do need to make some progress on this, with a clear timetable for decisions, confirmation of any interim arrangements and some meaningful engagement with Ara and the other stakeholders that are involved.

The second statement that I'd like is from the Cabinet Secretary with the responsibility for transport in relation to bicycle theft on the rail network in Wales. I know that the Welsh Government's not directly responsible for policing, but I do know that you have an interaction with the British Transport Police in relation to travel on the Transport for Wales network. There is a problem: they recently published, the British Transport Police, their new policy for investigating thefts of bicycles, and they say that they're not going to prosecute anybody if a bicycle's left for more than two hours or if it's valued for under £200. I find that unacceptable and I'd like to know what the Welsh Government is doing to ask them to look at that policy again. Thank you.

Thank you very much for both of those questions, and I obviously will raise this with the Minister for Mental Health and Well-being in relation to where we are in terms of addressing gambling harms through the services that we already provide, and I would say that we have been at the forefront, as you know, in terms of addressing this, and I thank the Senedd for engaging with these issues as well. And thank you for the feedback and the questions from Ara Recovery. I will ensure that we get a response to that in terms of where we are in these weeks as we lead to the end of this sixth Senedd and meet that timetable in terms of 1 April.

Yes, as you have said, policing is not devolved. I'm glad you actually see that it's a question you should be putting to me, because we would like to ensure that, of course, British Transport Police are serving the needs of our communities, and, of course, that's in terms of our rail services, and it is very concerning, particularly in relation to our active travel policy and commitments, that bicycles are being stolen, but I will again ask for a briefing on this, and make sure that the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales of course will be aware of this question and follow it up.

The report and recommendations of the Independent Advisory Group on Future Electricity Grid for Wales was published last month and the foreword from the Chair, Professor Hywel Thomas, hints that they got pretty bogged down in the weeds on thorny issues like undergrounding cables versus pylons, and, disappointingly, failed to look at the heat networks we need to use in the first instance so we consume in Wales the energy we produce in Wales. The Bethesda hydro scheme is a good example of that. So, I wondered if the Government could produce a statement that indicates how far we've got on the heat networks we need and the conversations we're having with the grid to ensure that that can happen before we transmit the energy up to centralised control, which then can be flogged to wherever it's needed.

Thank you for that question, Jenny Rathbone, and also for making that link to the Hywel Thomas report and the impact implications for the grid. Heat networks have the potential to be a reliable and efficient provider of low-carbon affordable heat across Wales, and, of course, we have a heat strategy for Wales, recognising their importance in decarbonising heat and generating high-quality jobs during construction across the value chain.

I think it's really important to recognise the first phase of the Cardiff heat network—recently gone live, supported by a grant from the UK Government and interest-free loan from Welsh Government, totalling over £15 million. And we will be working with the UK Government on developing the regulation of heat networks, and Ofgem will be the regulator, to ensure consumers have a reliable service, along with fair pricing. But it is important that we look at this in relation to the report and the impact implications, as you say, in terms of the grid.

I wish to raise a concerning matter that has been brought to my attention. It concerns an organisation in the third sector who has applied for funding within the Welsh Government's equality and inclusion grant programme. They were promised to hear if they were successful by the end of December, with the work expected to commence in the second week of January, if successful. We are now 10 days into February, and organisations that applied for this funding are still waiting to find out if they have been successful. It's worth noting that this funding is designed to last for three months, as the first phase is meant to be finished by the end of March. That deadline falls in just over six weeks' time. Not only is this massively inconvenient for the third sector organisations waiting in limbo, and perhaps even holding back on applying for other funding pots while they await news, but it also means that vital work to enhance inclusion and equality is not being carried out.

I'd be grateful if you could urgently look into this unsatisfactory state of affairs, with a view to getting it sorted and bringing much needed clarity to the third sector organisations. And can you give us an update in this Senedd as to the situation within your own portfolio? Diolch.

Well, thank you very much. Diolch yn fawr, Peredur Owen Griffiths. This is a new programme, the equality and inclusion grants programme. It is in my portfolio, so you've asked the right person to follow this up and respond. I know that there have been a large number—a welcome large number—of applications, and I have also been monitoring and checking how this is impacting on applicants. So, thank you for drawing attention to this, and I will update the Senedd on the equality and inclusion grants programme.

But also, I'm very willing, again, if you want to share with me which organisations are making applications, to follow it up. But I also know that this should not be bound by the financial year. We have to look at this in terms of the time that we've got for organisations to be able to deliver on their applications once the approvals have been made.

Trefnydd, the University Hospital of Wales Cardiff is Wales's largest hospital. It should be a symbol of national pride; instead, it has become a symbol of national failure. Members will be well aware that problems at UHW are now making repeated headlines across the country, regularly branding the hospital as the worst in the UK. We have seen reports of pigeons getting into operating theatres, sterile or surgical equipment being interfered with, and allegations of drug use, physical fights and inappropriate sexual relationships between staff. All this sits on top of long-standing, deep-rooted problems at the hospital: crumbling ageing buildings, poor management, low staff morale and serious safety concerns in theatres and clinical areas. 

The conditions at UHW are not the result of bad luck; they are the predictable outcomes of years of neglect by this Welsh Labour Government, which controls the NHS in Wales. Your Government sets the budgets. Your Government sets the priorities. And, therefore, it must accept responsibility for the conditions in which care is being delivered at UHW today. Therefore, can I ask again for an urgent statement from the Cabinet Secretary for health on the immediate actions the Welsh Government are taking to improve conditions at the University Hospital of Wales Cardiff? Thank you. 

Thank you, Joel James, and you raise an important question. And, as you know, the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, and Welsh Government officials, are regularly holding meetings with the health board to hold them to account, including the public accountability meeting that took place on 13 November 2025. 

We've been very clear with the health board about their need to improve the culture and leadership, particularly addressing concerns raised in recent internal reviews and the response from the workforce. I think it is important just to reflect on the issue around the regular review meetings that the chair and the Cabinet Secretary have been holding, particularly a report from the hospital's sterilisation and decontamination unit, and the fact that action has been taken as a result of that. 

And also, just to say, on capital and estates, Welsh Government have prioritised capital schemes for maintenance within the constraints of the capital budget, including maintenance commitments above and beyond that which other parts of the UK have made. Because that capital is crucial in terms of addressing the issues at the University Hospital of Wales. 

But we are very clear about the need to improve culture and leadership, addressing concerns raised in the recent reviews. And, of course, Cardiff and Vale University Health Board remains in level 4 escalation, and we're working with them to agree appropriate interventions and support. 

Good afternoon, Cabinet Secretary. I'd like to request a statement, please, from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care. At a public meeting last Friday in Tairgwaith, residents raised concerns about their experiences with the Amman Tawe Partnership. Amman Tawe Partnership operates across four GP surgeries in my region, and across seven in total. It also operates across two health boards—Swansea bay and Hywel Dda. I do intend to write to the Cabinet Secretary, but I would like there to be consideration given to an independent inquiry into the partnership, in order to hear all sides of the story and to ensure that all experiences are listened to. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Diolch yn fawr, Jane Dodds. Thank you for feeding back on that important meeting that was held in the community. It is important, again, that you've brought this today, in terms of local concerns about health service provision at the Amman Tawe Partnership GP practices. I'm grateful that you will be writing to the Cabinet Secretary about this. I think this is something where—. This is about local concerns that have been received by both Hywel Dda and Swansea Bay university health boards from some constituents. But they have been investigated; formal complaints are limited, dealt with either directly by the practice or by the health board. But, at this present time, I understand there is no indication of regulatory issues, and no intervention has been made by Healthcare Inspectorate Wales. But it is important now that this is followed through, as you said. I think a key message is that health boards are aware of periodic local concerns, but there has to be, obviously, an evidence base, in terms of systemic or safety issues, in terms of further intervention.

I'm asking for a Welsh Government statement on the future of computing in Swansea University. There are currently proposals to make substantial staffing reductions in the computing department. If this goes ahead, it will affect recruitment of both staff and students for many years into the future. I regularly raise the importance of computing and life sciences in growing the Swansea economy. These changes will seriously affect the growth potential of computing in Swansea and the opportunity to grow the Swansea economy in a high-wage and high-skills sector. The current proposal of those reductions is an act of economic vandalism, and Swansea is going to suffer.

Diolch yn fawr, Mike Hedges. You draw attention, which has been in the press as well, to that particular course, and, of course, there are others that are affected in terms of the issues arising in Swansea University. I understand that the Minister for Further and Higher Education has reached out to the vice-chancellor of the university, to meet and discuss how staff, particularly, can be supported during these difficult times. The Minister has also reached out to campus unions and expects Swansea University to work closely with them. There are, I understand, hopes to reduce numbers in scope through voluntary means. I'm grateful for the fact that you've raised this, particularly in terms of that area in terms of the faculty, the computer science course. But we of course remember that Medr is engaging closely with universities in Wales, understanding their individual positions, to ensure their long-term financial sustainability.

I was wondering if I could ask for a written statement from the Trefnydd herself on Royal Mail. I've spoken to a number of postal workers and members of the Communication Workers Union who've raised concerns with me around Royal Mail's overtime ban on the delivery of letters. If, for example, a postal worker is unable to complete a round because of the sheer number of letters they have, or if there are additional rounds to do, it doesn't matter; Royal Mail have refused that overtime. That has massive implications for our constituents, it has massive implications for the service. So, I would be interested in having a written statement from the Trefnydd, outlining what conversations the Welsh Government might have had with Royal Mail, and what the Welsh Government would be asking Royal Mail to do in this instance.

Thank you, Luke Fletcher, for that question. Of course, it's not devolved, but, again, it's a matter of liaison and representation, so I'm glad you've brought that to my attention today. We're aware of the changes that have taken place, in terms of the delivery of postal services and the impact it can have in terms of, I know, concerns about appointments in the NHS, for example, but also the impact on the workforce. That's certainly something to engage with the unions on as well, to understand those impacts. So, thank you for that, because I will be making representations as a result of questions being asked of me—this week, in fact.

I call for a statement on support for parents and carers of children with additional learning needs. As chair of the cross-party autism group, I've been made aware of a letter issued by the director of education at Merthyr Tydfil County Borough Council to parents, which could be distressing for parents and carers of children with additional learning needs, and asked to raise this issue in the Chamber. The letter warns that having ALN does not mean school rules do not apply, and selectively quotes a line from the National Autistic Society's website completely out of context. Both the National Autistic Society Cymru and Learning Disability Wales have condemned the tone as distressing and ableist, particularly for families already struggling to secure the reasonable adjustments their children are legally entitled to. Learning Disability Wales has referred the matter to the Children's Commissioner  for Wales and the Cabinet Secretary for Education. The National Autistic Society has made clear that misrepresenting its guidance is unhelpful and potentially misleading. This reflects a failure to understand and meet the needs of autistic pupils and other pupils with additional learning needs, which is worryingly replicated at senior level in many local authorities. I call for an urgent statement accordingly.

Thank you very much, Mark Isherwood. I'm obviously not aware of this particular letter, but I think it's important that you've drawn it to our attention today, and also that those organisations that have such expertise and support, the National Autistic Society and Learning Disability Wales, are engaging. It is a matter for Merthyr Tydfil county council and their director of education, and it is now on the record that there are concerns being raised about that letter and the impact of it.

A debating society refusing debate. Well, this is a new one. Trefnydd, I'm calling for a statement from your Government following a decision made by the debating and political society at Bangor University to refuse a request from a Reform UK representative to take part in a Q&A, and in their statement using loaded and hateful language, such as 'racist', 'transphobic' and 'homophobic'. Reform have six MPs, two MSs, one MSP, 1,000 councillors across the UK, and are likely to get an awful lot more in May. Surely the answer to speech that you don't like is more debate, not cancelling them. This is setting a dangerous precedent. We recognise that Bangor University has now distanced itself from the society's decision and have said that it does not reflect the university's policies, which of course we welcome. Universities should be bastions of free speech. I'm therefore calling for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary, from this Government, on how they seek to help protect and safeguard freedom of speech in universities and fair access to debate. I'm sure you'll agree with me, Trefnydd, from what we've seen from this society and Bangor University, it's both unbelievable and unacceptable. Diolch.

Well, it is very concerning to hear from you about the tone of this and the implications of the question that you raise, Laura Anne Jones. Obviously, it's based on the Reform agenda, isn't it? Obviously, universities and their student societies operate independently. It is for them to determine which events or speakers they host. And of course there are strongly held views across the political spectrum about issues of free speech and inclusion and decisions that can prompt strong feelings from all sides. But also, can I remind you, Laura Anne Jones, of our Hate Hurts Wales? It's our commitment to ensuring that we promote unity not hostility, that we promote community cohesion not division, which of course is underlying many of the points that are now coming out in terms of Reform responses and policies.

'I am sure they won't mind losing every penny of that state funding under a Reform government.'

I have already responded robustly to Laura Anne Jones. I'm just very worried what this is leading to in terms of that threat to our universities, which, as I say, are operating independently. Also, can I say how proud I am of our higher education institutions for the way they're embracing our 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan' and enabling us to ensure that universities are the places where people can learn, debate freely and openly. To have that kind of threat in terms of public funding is appalling, and I concur with your points about this, particularly as you serve it in your constituency.

I'd like to call for a statement, please, from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care this afternoon on unacceptable waiting times for gastroenterology care and the impact this is having on people with severe eating-related disorders. Across Wales, the number of patients on referral-to-treatment waiting lists has soared to around 781,000 pathways, and routine gastro waiting times have exceeded three years in Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board, creating a backlog and delay in care. Those with complex gastro symptoms are waiting too long for treatment, which can lead to their condition worsening with severe consequences, plus creating backlogs that can delay diagnosis and essential diagnostic procedures, such as endoscopy. At the same time, we know there is a rising prevalence of eating disorders, with the eating disorder charity Beat saying they've seen a seven-fold increase in calls from young people presenting with avoidant/restrictive food intake disorder, yet specialist care remains hard to obtain and waiting times remain too long. So, can we receive a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care outlining what action the Welsh Government and health boards will take to make sure that gastro waiting times are reduced, so that assessments and treatment pathways for people with eating disorders and complex feeding difficulties are timely and compassionate?

Thank you for that question. As you know, progress has been made since special measures, in terms of Betsi Cadwaladr health board: improved financial governance, a stable board in place, and also in terms of progress on access to planned care over the last three years. And if you see that progress, it's a 60 per cent reduction in the numbers of pathways waiting over 104 weeks for treatment since February 2023. It is true that some people are waiting too long to access services and you have put on the agenda today—on the record today—the particular concerns about gastroenterology. But it is true also that waits for out-patient appointments have fallen by 22 per cent, two-year waits for out-patient appointments by 80 per cent, and a 71.6 per cent reduction in pathways waiting for more than a year in some specialties, which have also made an impact and improved services for people in north Wales.

Business Minister, can I please request a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care about less survivable cancers, in particular the funding and treatment inequalities that exist? A constituent of mine, who is living with stage 4 cancer, having been diagnosed with oesophageal cancer in 2022, has shared his experience with me, having been under the treatment of various health boards, including Aneurin Bevan, Cardiff and the Vale, as well as Velindre. He explained that the funding for research remains far too low, with some cancers receiving over £310 in research funding per patient death, whereas oesophageal cancer gets only £40. It's not just funding either, Cabinet Secretary. Patients in England benefit from a 31-day waiting time target for secondary care for cancer, yet Wales has no such specific target, leaving patients with advanced diseases is a postcode lottery. We have incompatible computer systems, meaning that specialists in Cardiff often cannot access scans performed in other health boards, causing dangerous delays in time-sensitive care. Endoscopies are vital for early diagnosis, yet Cardiff and Vale University Local Health Board currently has the longest waiting list for this procedure in the entire United Kingdom. And whilst historically linked to smoking and alcohol, an increasing number of patients, including my constituent, who has lived a healthy lifestyle and is a non-smoker, are being diagnosed with this sort of cancer. Business Minister, we cannot improve survival rates if the Government continues to underfund the very cancers that claim the most lives here in Wales. A Government statement outlining what steps the Cabinet Secretary will be taking to rectify the situation would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Of course, we've been focused on working with the NHS to improve cancer services with earlier access to diagnosis and treatment. There is more to be done in terms of prevention, treatment and research, but we've invested tens of millions of pounds in new cancer facilities, equipment, digital systems, workforce training and treatments also as part of our £2 million cancer recovery programme, supporting health boards to improve cancer waiting times. And, of course, the long-term demand for cancer investigations, the complexity of care and delivery is increasing faster, and we need to make sure that the NHS has the capacity to deliver it. 

Last week, Trefnydd, I raised with you that I believe that the health Secretary had misled this Senedd, making a statement that nobody in Powys is waiting more than a year for their first out-patient appointment or two years for treatment. In your response to me, apart from you saying that I should be careful about the language that I use, you also asked me to look at the statement again and to look at the statistical records in terms of the waiting times statistics. I can assure you that I had already done that before raising it, why is why I raised it. So, can I ask you, Trefnydd, have you now looked at the statement again and have you looked at the waiting time statistics for Powys? I assume that you have, given that you were so exercised about it. If you have, you will be aware that there are 185 people in Powys waiting for their first out-patient appointment, and that figure is just those Powys patients waiting in other Welsh health boards, let alone those waiting in English health boards. That is well above zero, isn't it, Trefnydd, and that's not 'nobody'? The Cabinet Secretary's statement was false and, if you had checked the information yourself, you would be aware of that. It is so frustrating for people waiting in pain to be told such misleading information. So, can I ask you, Trefnydd, to ask the health Secretary to make a statement to this Senedd, to provide an apology and to clarify the correct position?

Before the Trefnydd answers, can I remind the Member to be careful in his language, please? I did express that last week and I spoke to him privately with my view on what he said. There was no need to repeat it this week, because it's already on the record. You're now indicating that—in fact, you are stating clearly—he made false statements—

I am, yes. 

—and I think that's a very dangerous situation. I'm very careful and conscious of what is said in this Chamber and how it's interpreted. I ask all Members to be careful how you phrase your questions, please. I ask all Members that on how you phrase your questions, please.

I stand by that statement, Dirprwy Lywydd. 

Trefnydd.

Well, thank you for your question, Russell George. You know that the Welsh Government remains committed to reducing waiting times, ensuring everyone in Wales, including those in Powys, has equitable and timely access to treatment, and this has been supported by an additional £120 million this year, which includes new funding for Powys Teaching Local Health Board. In fact, the health board has just received over £115,000 as a provider to support improvements in planned care for this financial year.

But you know of course that, for many Powys residents, treatment is in English hospitals because Powys has no district general hospital and relies on cross-border commissioning. And, of course, the board has approved changes to align planned care with the extra funding for planned care services commissioned from providers in England and Wales to NHS Wales recovery targets, which came into effect—I'm sure the Cabinet Secretary has responded on this point—at the Robert Jones and Agnes Hunt and the Wye valley trusts from 1 July. However, Shrewsbury and Telford NHS trust has not enacted the new commissioning intentions, but they have had this extra funding in order for them to move forward. It is really important that I say here that the health board received an additional £12.5 million in-year funding in 2024-25 to support it to deliver safe and timely access to its resident population, which included an acknowledgement of the additional costs to the health board of the commissioning position for Powys residents being treated in England in order to meet the Welsh waiting times target. That is the assurance that we can give.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Lywydd. Can I ask for a statement from the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership? This is particularly in light of Swansea Council last week releasing minutes of a meeting that confirmed intentions that the Ospreys rugby club would not exist beyond 2027. Now, this is a grave concern for Ospreys supporters in Swansea and beyond, who, quite frankly, have been treated horribly by the Welsh Rugby Union, with very, very little transparency about what is happening to the future of their club. I'm very glad that the Minister is here and is listening to this, because he will know that those supporters deserve a lot better than what they've been getting from the WRU and others so far. Given the ongoing relationship between the Welsh Rugby Union and the Welsh Government, it's important, I think, that supporters also know the Welsh Government's position on this matter, which is why I'm calling for a statement from the Minister to be able to clarify the Welsh Government's position and its relationships, and exactly what it is doing to protect the Ospreys and to protect professional rugby in the Swansea area.

Thank you very much, and thank you for asking this question, which is obviously currently of great concern and interest. Of course, we recognise the passion and dedication of players, volunteers and supporters within the sport, and we want to see sports thrive at all levels. But, of course, decisions on the future, whether at community or professional level, are the responsibility of the Welsh Rugby Union. As it is an independent organisation, we don't have the powers to intervene on the decisions made and we can't direct the WRU. But we have urged—and I know the Minister has urged—the WRU to ensure that any decisions on the future of the sport are approached with open dialogue, transparency and thorough consideration of their wider implications for clubs, players, fans and all stakeholders who have an interest in the future of the sport in Wales.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. It's a real pleasure to join you as we mark Apprenticeship Week Wales 2026. This week is a celebration of the people and partnerships that drive our skills system and support a fairer, greener, and more prosperous Wales.

I'm proud, Llywydd, that we will exceed our commitment to create 100,000 apprenticeship opportunities this Senedd term, with more than 104,000 expected by its end. This has been achieved during a period of real financial pressure and it reflects the dedication of providers, employers, and learners, backed by sustained Welsh Government investment. Our budget for 2026–27 includes an extra £7.4 million for apprenticeships, strengthening long-term stability.

Llywydd, I will never tire of saying that I once was an engineering apprentice. It not only gave me the skills to thrive as an engineer, but the confidence to enter different arenas, including to sit amongst you in the Senedd today. As I've said before, I'd like to see more former apprentices sitting in this place.

Throughout apprenticeship week, Cabinet Members are visiting apprenticeship sites, meeting apprentices, and meeting employers and training providers across the country. I recently went to the NPTC Group apprenticeship awards and witnessed first-hand the impact apprenticeships can and do have on the lives of the people of Wales. It was both inspiring and humbling.

Apprenticeships are central to developing our future workforce and they are central to ensuring opportunities reach every part of the country. This apprenticeship week, I will meet apprentices at AerFin in Newport, Pen y Cymoedd windfarm with the Federation of Master Builders, and, in my own constituency, apprentices from Toyota. I'm excited to see and share the significant contribution apprentices make to aerospace, renewable energy and modern construction—bolstering our economy and helping shape Wales into a country of the future.

Our apprenticeships policy statement sets priorities around strategic sectors, the transition to net zero, fair access, progression, and partnership. As the demands of the economy change, Wales continues to adapt its skills system. We work together with employers, training providers, Medr and Qualifications Wales to meet future needs.

As you will know, Medr is currently consulting on the next apprenticeship programme, launching in August 2027, to ensure it is flexible, inclusive and aligned to future economic needs. Underpinning the system, Qualifications Wales provides the independent regulation that maintains quality, helping ensure excellence in the Welsh skills pipeline. Together, the Welsh Government, Medr and Qualifications Wales support a coherent, trusted system focused on positive outcomes for the people and employers of Wales.

This system works. As a result of our strong collaboration in response to industry and employer needs, I am pleased today to confirm new level 2 apprenticeship pathways in bricklaying, site carpentry, scaffolding and building maintenance to come later this year, improving access to essential trades and supporting key areas such as housing, infrastructure and net-zero delivery. These developments follow strong engagement with the sector and close working with Medr and Qualifications Wales. Together, we listened, we heard, and we've now acted. Behind every apprenticeship is a personal story of talent and ambition—from engineering to professional cookery—and we continue to see how apprenticeships build confidence, skills and long-term careers.

Apprenticeship Week Wales is also about encouraging more employers to offer apprenticeships and to benefit from fresh talent, new ideas and workforce development. Apprenticeships support key sectors in Wales, such as health and social care, digital, engineering, advanced manufacturing, tourism, hospitality and public services. They underpin and contribute to a balanced and resilient economy based on fairness, inclusivity and opportunity. Apprenticeships form the foundation of a fair and prosperous economy, and the Welsh Government remains committed to a flexible, resilient skills system focused on opportunity.

It's not just the Senedd and our training partners who are champions of apprenticeships. I recently met with Councillor Anthony Hunt, the leader of Torfaen County Borough Council, and he told me something that I would like to share with the Chamber today. Under his leadership in Torfaen, the local council is using apprenticeships as a lever for inclusive growth, workforce sustainability and social mobility. Apprenticeships are being used not simply as entry-level roles and then discarded—the apprentices are kept on and their skills are developed further as part of a strategic pathway into sustainable public service careers.

Under this new approach, they've appointed 24 new apprentices, with another 12 on the way from April. This approach aligns with Wales's ambition as a Marmot nation by tackling inequality through access to good work. Torfaen is showing what modern public service leadership looks like—using apprenticeships not just to fill vacancies, but to open doors. By simplifying recruitment, targeting outreach to those who might otherwise be excluded, and backing apprentices with real support, the council is building a stronger workforce whilst tackling inequality head on. I hope, like me, you found this example really inspiring, and I'm sure that there are numerous examples across the whole of Cymru championing this type of approach.

Dirprwy Lywydd, let us celebrate the achievements of apprentices, the dedication of employers, and the commitment of their training providers. Thank you to everyone whose efforts make our apprenticeship system a driving force for opportunity and prosperity in the Welsh economy. Together, we will continue to create opportunity, success and a strong economy, improving lives for all in Wales.

Could I join the Minister in thanking all those who work within the further education and apprenticeship sector for their work on a day-to-day basis in inspiring a lot of our young people here in Wales, and fighting for that better provision here in Wales?

I'd also welcome the announcement we've just had on level 2 construction. I know this has been a long time coming, and I know the Minister has worked very hard to get this over the line. On that note, I thank him as well for those conversations in relation to level 2 construction and other issues within the apprenticeship agenda. I think a number of us in this Chamber who have been actively involved in other skills conversations over the years have a bit of collective trauma around trying to find a way forward on this agenda, particularly when we've seen the cuts of European funding to our apprenticeship system here in Wales.

I'd also like to flag that we have the apprenticeship fair tomorrow in the Senedd between 11:00 and 14:00. As co-chair of the cross-party group on apprenticeships, I would encourage everyone to come. If you were there last year, you would have seen some of the great courses that are on offer here in Wales. Last year, I found out I was a dab hand at welding. It's good to know, with an election coming, that I might be able to turn to something else, but it's a great opportunity for Members to also learn what they might be able to progress onto after the election.

Turning to the statement at hand, on the face of it, it's really good news that we're seeing the Government hitting its target, exceeding its target, with 104,000 apprenticeships in Wales. Of course, it's worth remembering that that is a revised target, for one of the reasons that I've already set out, which is the loss of European funding having a massive impact. But what I wanted to seek some clarity on from the Minister is whether that target includes apprentice starts that withdrew within the first eight weeks of their course, because if that is the case, I think it does, it's fair to say, cast a bit of doubt over the positivity of that figure of 100,000. Because surely we should be counting the apprenticeship finishes rather than the apprenticeship starts, especially if then, within those figures, you have the people who are dropping out within those first eight weeks. So, some clarity from the Minister on that would be very welcome.

Secondly, I think this apprenticeship week is as much about celebrating apprenticeships as it is about looking ahead to a new apprenticeship programme for Wales, and, of course, those Senedd elections in May. The essence of any economy is its people, so, to my mind, apprenticeships are one of the clearest ways we put that belief into practice. With a return on investment of up to £18 for every £1 spent, apprenticeships are evidently great value for money.

But just last week, I was contacted by a learner working in the digital sector who wants to progress to a level 7 degree apprenticeship. In England, that pathway exists: a funded masters-level apprenticeship covering AI data analytics and cyber security. But in Wales, the vocational route stops at level 6. That learner is then faced with three choices: stagnate, accept their formal training has come to and end, or relocate to England.

I think the irony is hard to ignore when we're told that north Wales is where this learner is based. They're supposedly in line for thousands of new AI jobs, yet learners can't progress beyond a certain point. So, I ask the Minister who will be getting these jobs when it comes to AI growth. What conversations has he had with UK Government about how we might be able to build up that skills base within north Wales, particularly with a focus on that AI growth zone, and how does he plan to expand that offer here in Wales?

There's clear cross-party support for the apprenticeship agenda, evident in the cross-party group on apprenticeships, so it's important that we have that cross-party support, because if we don't get the skills agenda right, then all of our other ambitions within every other portfolio in Government will not come to pass. So, some clarity, as I said, on the figures would be very welcome, and some clarity on where we'll see that agenda progress into the next Senedd would be very helpful. Diolch. 

I thank Luke Fletcher for that. Can I firstly thank him for his work as co-chair of the cross-party group with Joyce Watson? I thank them for all the work that they both do in supporting apprenticeships and the apprenticeship system in Wales. I look forward to being at the apprenticeship fair tomorrow. I think it's a really good opportunity for Members of the Senedd to see what's on offer in their local communities, and then, hopefully, go out and promote apprenticeships as an offer for everybody in the future. I'll make the offer to the Member: if he finds himself taking up a welding apprenticeship and he needs help with his performing engineering operations qualification, then I'm sure I've got my folders under the bed somewhere, and I'm sure we can come to some sort of arrangement in the future.

I thank him for his words on level 2 apprenticeships in the construction industry. I'm grateful for the conversations that we have had over a sustained period of time now, and I'm pleased to be able to say that we are moving. We've announced those construction apprenticeships frameworks in the ones that I listed before. I think this is a positive step forward. It's what the industry wanted, and I very much recognise that, and we've been able to announce these apprenticeships. Construction is the foundation of the economy, and we should always look to support there. And that work doesn't stop. Medr will continue with the framework review, looking at further courses that could become available. So, I'll seek more there.

On the stats, he asked for clarity. The stats exceeding the target of 104,000 include apprenticeships starts. That is the programme for government commitment, and that's what we've achieved already. I won't mention the point that's been rehearsed before around the loss of European funding; I'll save that for a further contribution, I'm sure, coming, perhaps, shortly. But the stats are exceeding—. On the point the Member raised on people coming to the completion of their courses, we're always looking at what more we can do to make sure that is a higher figure again. I think the apprenticeship programme in Wales is a success. It's a quality programme, with over 100,000 in this Senedd term, over 200,000 across the last decade. But, of course, we're always working with colleagues, and Medr play a key role in some of that, about what we can do more of in the future.

I think there were just two more points. One was on level 7 masters degree-style apprenticeships. We had a commitment to expand degree apprenticeships in this Senedd term. We've done that, we've expanded them in key areas. I'm very keen that we have an offer that helps maximise the opportunity that the economy brings. I know of the situation that the Member has pointed to. Medr are currently going through their framework approach. They should be considering all of that information now, and I think they are looking at what the Member has referred to as part of correspondence I've received and they have received.

On his point on north Wales, there are lots of opportunities in north Wales at the moment that have been announced by the UK Government. We're working with colleagues in Westminster when it comes to the skills system here. I want a flexible and inclusive system that responds to the major opportunities in north Wales for local people to access. I hosted a north Wales skills summit last month with the Cabinet Secretary for economy and the Minister for Further and Higher Education. When we look to the future, he will be pleased, I think, to note that the Government has put forward a budget of over £150 million into the apprenticeship line. It's a significant increase again on last year; it's the most this Government has ever spent on apprenticeships. I think that's a good foundation for future years.

Thank you, Minister, for your statement, and, indeed, for sight of your statement earlier on this afternoon. I'm pleased to join in and celebrate apprenticeship week this year and recognise the value that apprenticeships bring to learners, employers and the wider Welsh economy. It's great too to see employers and training providers promoting the success of their apprentices and to highlight the benefit that their roles provide to the wider economy. I know this is a subject that the Minister himself is passionate about, as you've raised in your statement this afternoon.

I think we should also celebrate that Wales has some of the highest quality apprenticeship programmes, with Wales boasting one of the UK's most successful apprenticeship programmes in terms of completion rates, with an average completion rate of 74 per cent, outperforming both England at 61 per cent and Northern Ireland at 62 per cent. Whilst I welcome the 100,000 apprenticeships delivered in this Senedd term, I think we can agree that it would be great to see the number much higher, and that this number is lower than the Welsh Government's target to create 125,000. I know you referenced European funding, which gave me foresight of perhaps something that you'll be responding to in my response to the statement. And just to say that those pledges were made in 2021, five years after Wales and the UK voted to leave the EU, and indeed 12 months after we officially left the EU. So, the Welsh Government must have had confidence at that time, given that the economy was where it was at the time, that you could produce that 125,000 figure, but we are at 100,000, which I welcome. But I would like to ask you that, Minister, in terms of the reasons why we couldn't make 125,000, given those political realities that we currently have. 

Only 1.6 per cent of year 11 leavers and 2.9 per cent of year 13 leavers in Wales go straight into apprenticeships. When you look at the stats as a percentage, uptake is still shockingly low and needs to increase. The Welsh Government currently has no clear targets or aspirations in this area. With the poor economic circumstances that have been cultivated by Labour Governments at both ends of the M4, we have an environment where companies across Wales are disincentivised to invest the time and resources to provide the necessary supervision, training and safeguarding associated with taking on apprentices. 

So, we are still massively behind the curve when it comes to apprenticeships, and this raises concerns that we'll see a substantial brain drain if there are greater options across the border in England. Projections suggested around 10,000 fewer starts in 2024-25, with organisations like CollegesWales warning that this undermines economic goals and cuts the talent pipeline for employers. There has been a noted fall in starts, which was reported by Medr's statistics from 2025, which was attributed to funding cuts in the 2024 budget. Estyn also attributed this fall in apprenticeship starts to the 14 per cent reduction in apprenticeships funding. 

There is no shortage of demand for skilled labour in Wales, just a shortage of supply. The Senedd's Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee's report late last year highlighted that more needs to be done to promote apprenticeships as a viable option. Medr is currently looking to design a new apprenticeship programme for Wales, which will start on 1 August 2027, with industry consultation highlighting the need for more flexible delivery and to respond to the changing economy and needs of industry. 

Information provided to young people can often be unclear, confusing, misleading or biased, limiting informed choices and access to pathways. So, whilst acknowledging some of the successes in the Welsh apprenticeships programme, the reduced starts are very concerning and show a move in the wrong direction. The advice on this seems to be clear, which is to raise investment. According to the Centre for Economics and Business Research, doubling investment in apprenticeships over the next Senedd term could generate an additional £3.4 billion in lifetime earnings for people in Wales over the next 30 years. 

I'd also be keen to hear how the Minister is working with the Cabinet Secretary for Education to ensure that young people are properly informed of their training options with better promotion of apprenticeships, and that they don't feel funnelled into the university system. I'd also be pleased if the Minister could outline how further measures are being taken to raise the number of apprenticeship starts, so that targets aren't missed again. Finally, I'd also be grateful if the Cabinet Secretary could outline how the Welsh Government works with industry to identify skill shortages in the labour market and ensure the apprenticeships programme remains flexible. Thank you very much.

I thank Gareth Davies for a series of points there. I think we've covered a number of them in the contribution before, so I'll try not to go over them again, but I'll try and get through the rest. Can I thank him for his positive start? I genuinely do believe, Llywydd, this is one of the areas where the Senedd does come together when it comes to the importance of apprenticeships. We might differ on how we get there and all of those things, but the idea of supporting apprentices and apprenticeships is clearly one that the Senedd does support, and I'm grateful for his position there. I’m also grateful for his recognition of the highest quality of apprenticeship, which is something that we’ve never wanted to shy away from. We want quality apprenticeships and we've delivered 100,000 of them this Senedd term, and I’m grateful to him for highlighting the completion rate. I'll ask Luke to just hear what Gareth said on that in relation to his question earlier.

Llywydd, I am very proud, and it is a personal pride, to be the apprenticeships Minister, particularly given the fact I've been through that journey myself. And Gareth guessed right, and I also guessed right that he was going to bring up the European Union. We were told at the time that we would not be worse off when we left the European Union. The apprenticeship budget was directly £43 million worse off as a result of Brexit. So, wherever you sit on the fence of Brexit or not, the consequence was a direct impact of minus £43 million annually to the budget. That's a significant decrease to the budget. The Welsh Government has consistently improved the apprenticeships budget, and we are now investing more than we ever have before, with more in the budget for next year.

When it comes, Gareth—. That's not the only impact in the system that's been faced. I mentioned them in my statement as well, but there were significant inflationary pressures at the time where his party was in control at the UK level. But against all of that—. That's what contributed to the falling starts that he referred to. But let's not undermine the importance of this, and the impact this has had. Apprenticeships offer not just opportunity, they offer life-changing opportunity, and we've supported over 100,000 of them in this Senedd term. As I said, in that period, across the decade, over 200,000 apprenticeship opportunities were supported, in every single constituency, including in his own, in a wide variety of sectors, including the north Wales fire service and in Ysgol Bryn Collen as well.

He asked for two points—Llywydd, I can see it’s time to move on. He asked about support from the Cabinet Secretary for Education, and how we promote access to these opportunities for people. We work very closely. We have a ministerial board on vocational education and training. I chair that board, and then the Minister for Further and Higher Education sits in there, and the Cabinet Secretary for Education and the Cabinet Secretary for economy sit on that board. You will have heard the response to the committee report from the Children and Young People Committee last week that the Cabinet Secretary raised. They have the points there where we need to do so. I'm pleased to have been on a visit today where we talked directly to industry about how they go into schools and promote industry as a way forward, and the apprenticeship route as a way forward. I want to see more of that.

The final point he asked was on industry and how we set up a system. Well, Medr are currently going through the framework review. They've had a consultation. They've done that with industry, with trade representatives. But we also use partnerships like the regional skills partnership to inform the future trends. You will have seen some of the major announcements recently and the opportunities in front of us. I hope the system that is set up through Medr will allow us to respond in a way and have a system that is resilient, backed by £150 million-worth of investment next year and into future years as well. And we also have programmes like the flexible skills programme, which looks significantly into this as well.

Minister, it was good to hear you mention AerFin in Newport in terms of your recent visit, and I'm sure you would agree with me that they're one of a growing number of local companies in Newport investing in their workforce, companies like Vishay, KLA, and indeed CAF Rail, working in partnership with Welsh Government to show that they value the local population and the skills that the local population can bring to companies who want to work with Welsh Government and our young people to develop apprenticeship schemes as part of that. So, I just wonder, Minister, if you could reflect on that visit to AerFin and agree with me that it's a very good example of that partnership between local young people, a progressive company and Welsh Government working for mutual benefit. 

I thank John Griffiths for that. They are very exciting times in Newport. Newport is having its own industrial revolution, I think, John, and that's because of the hard work of representatives like you continuously championing Newport's needs. You are absolutely right to point to those companies, and a number of those companies have accessed funding through the flexible skills programme, upskilling their current workforce with the skills that industry tells us that they want.

It was great to be at AerFin this morning for a number of reasons. I was able to meet apprentices who are currently going through an apprenticeship programme, and I was able to meet apprentices who have been through the programme and now are assets into the business themselves. I was able to meet the chief operating officer for AerFin in Newport, who himself was a former apprentice, and I think that's exactly what apprenticeship week should be about: offering inspiration to all those people who want to be the apprentices of tomorrow to say, 'This is the level you can reach at AerFin and in other businesses across Wales—the sky really is the limit.'

We were able, John, to discuss a number of things in Newport this morning around what the company is doing. They are looking at further support for their future workforce through the apprenticeship programme, through, I hope, a graduate programme in the future, through activities in our schools, science, technology, engineering and mathematics activities in our schools, inspiring the next generation, and including work experience, which is one of the recommendations from both the Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport and International Relations Committee and, I think, the Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee. 

John, there are examples like this across the country. Llywydd, we could have 59 more questions of where businesses are supporting apprenticeships because of Welsh Government investment in this Chamber today. I consciously might not get through all of those, but it's just a reflection of how much investment has gone into the system over a number of years now, and we're very proud to have done that.

Minister, as you well know, constituents from my part of the world do struggle to access apprenticeships because of the cross-border issues, because Medr and the Welsh Government do not fund apprenticeships outside of Wales universally. If we want people to access more apprenticeships in wider parts of Wales, there needs to be flexibility with funding across borders. So, will you look at this again—I know we have discussed this privately and in this Chamber before—to see what we can do to make sure we can fund those people who live on the border to access apprenticeships in England, so they can learn those skills and bring them back to Wales, which will help boost our economy? 

I'm grateful, James, for the question again, and raising this matter again. I did go to look at this after the last time you raised this. It remains a relatively small number of people who are impacted, but I do take the point that when people are impacted by this decision, it does have a significant impact on them. It's not just in Wales, it's across the United Kingdom as well, but we typically see this in niche areas where support isn't offered in Wales and needs to be in an area. I can say to the Member that we are working with Medr to review options in the future for people who may be affected by this type of programme, and we're also in conversations with other UK nations about exploring flexibilities in the system, where identified cases can be made, like the one he has mentioned. We're actively having those discussions, and I hope those discussions will progress into the future. I don't think it helps directly right now for his constituent, but hopefully, in the future, we can make a difference there.

Thank you for your statement, Minister. I know you share my views on the importance of building a strong skills base to support the significant investment in renewable energy that we're seeing now, particularly in north Wales. This Thursday, I will be visiting Coleg Llandrillo in Rhyl, and on previous visits I have helped assist them through some hurdles of development and seen the construction of the fabulous new engineering unit there, which is funded with Welsh Government money. I was also at the official opening with the then First Minister, Mark Drakeford. It's been great to see also the RWE apprentices that have really developed, and I've been really impressed by the high level of skills and knowledge that they are developing onsite. Minister, could you say a little bit more about how apprentices in my region have benefited from projects such as Gwynt y Môr? Thank you.

I thank Carolyn Thomas for that. I had a great visit to Coleg Llandrillo in Rhyl. I was able to walk passed the plaque celebrating the occasion of the official opening, opened by the former First Minister, again demonstrating Welsh Government investment into north Wales and important industries like that. I was very impressed with the college's centre of excellence when it comes to wind technicians and renewable technology there, and I'm sure the Member will enjoy the visit on Thursday as part of apprenticeship week.

There are some real opportunities in north Wales because of major announcements made by the UK Labour Government in recent times, and they stretch from small modular reactors in Ynys Môn to the AI growth zones that we've heard about already, the Flintshire and Wrexham investment zone, and, indeed, Gwynt y Môr and the new announcement of the first turbines, again, in the last 10 years.

We've supported apprentices in the past through the RWE centre of excellence. I'll be going back to see some of them in the operations base on Thursday, I think, in the port of Mostyn. I look forward to that. I want local people to take advantage of the opportunities that are in north Wales. It is why I chaired and initiated a north Wales skills summit at the start of this year, with the Cabinet Secretary and the Minister for Further and Higher Education. I want the local people to take up the opportunities in front of us.

We've delivered £500 million-worth of investment into the apprenticeship programme over this Senedd term. We've set up a budget of £150 million for next year's Senedd to take a start on this. And we hope to see all people across the north Wales coast take advantage of all of those opportunities, including in the supply chain.

Last year, we confirmed plans to introduce differential multipliers for non-domestic rates. In November, the Senedd approved regulations that specify the application of new retail and higher multipliers. Today's regulations prescribe the values of the differential multipliers. The retail multiplier will be 30 per cent lower than the standard multiplier, to rebalance the system in favour of small to medium-sized shops. This benefit will be supported by a modest supplement of 2.6 per cent on the higher multiplier. 

If today's regulations succeed, the retail multiplier will be 0.350, and the higher multiplier will be 0.515 in 2026-27. Overall, 10,000 retail shops in Wales already pay no rates at all. This measure will reduce bills for a further 14,5000 retail shops, at a total benefit to them of some £20 million. 

And, Dirprwy Lywydd, just to be clear, if the regulations are not approved this afternoon, these changes will not be implemented and the single standard multiplier will continue to apply to all properties.  

Diolch. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee considered the draft regulations last week and the Welsh Government's response yesterday. The committee's report contains six technical reporting points and three merits scrutiny reporting points. I'll bring some of these to the Senedd's attention.

Reporting point 1 asks the Welsh Government to clarify why certain conditions for financial penalties are set out in the regulations but are not specified in the enabling Act. In its response, the Welsh Government states that it believes that these conditions are necessary to ensure a billing authority does not impose a financial penalty on a person until the review process is exhausted.

Reporting point 3 seeks clarification over the coming-to-force date of these regulations and the Non-Domestic Rating (Provision of Information About Changes of Circumstances) (Wales) Regulations 2026, which do not appear to have been sequenced correctly to allow for the amendments to function properly. The Welsh Government agrees and will amend the coming-into-force dates of the amendments prior to making.

Reporting point 6 highlights an inconsistency in the meaning of the Welsh and English texts, which the Welsh Government will correct prior to making.

The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee’s merits scrutiny point highlights that, although a notice under section 63K of the Act may be reviewed and appealed, the regulations do not provide a review or appeal procedure in relation to a financial penalty imposed under regulation 4. The Welsh Government response sets out that the enabling Act does not contain powers to make regulations that create the right to appeal against a financial penalty, only the right to appeal against a section 63K notice, and this reflects the policy intent for the operation of the anti-avoidance framework.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. Thanks to the Chair of the LJC committee for their detailed oversight of the proposals. Mike Hedges is right in his account to the Senedd of the Welsh Government's response.

Two thirds of hospitality businesses in Wales, by their own industry assessment, pay no rates already. We deliberately focused these changes in a relatively narrow sector, where we thought the case was strongest, in order to test the machinery to see how it works. I'm quite sure that a future Government will wish to return to it to see whether there's more policy value that can be extracted from the new powers that the Senedd has in this area.

Dirprwy Lywydd, these regulations implement the final element in this Senedd term's package of measures to address avoidance of non-domestic rates, which we have developed through joint working with local government over this term and the previous term. The scale of non-domestic rates avoidance in Wales, through various methods, has previously been estimated as at least £10 million to £20 million of lost revenue every year. This is up to 2 per cent of the income received from non-domestic rates, and many local authorities believe that that estimate is simply the tip of the iceberg. Of course, that minority who seek to avoid their obligations not only fail to make a fair contribution to local services, but they also place all those legitimate businesses who do the right thing at a commercial disadvantage.

The ability of the Senedd to address this issue was much improved by the passage of the Local Government Finance (Wales) Act 2024. That introduced a general anti-avoidance framework for non-domestic rates, and these regulations give effect to this framework by specifying a range of known activities that will now be treated as artificial avoidance arrangements and therefore can be counteracted by local authorities. Many of the most widely known avoidance arrangements rely on exploiting the definition of 'beneficial occupation'. The aim of such arrangements is often to reset the owner's eligibility for a period of empty property rate relief, but other advantages are also possible.

Now, our anti-avoidance framework provides a new way forward by enabling avoidance arrangements that constitute artificial occupation to be specified so that the advantages gained can be counteracted. The regulations define a range of artificial avoidance arrangements, falling within four broad types. These arrangements cover tenancy agreements that are designed to enable avoidance; ratepayers where their obligations are wound up voluntarily under insolvency law in order to avoid paying rates; characteristics of the ratepayer that are indicators of avoidance; and occupations with characteristics that have been used to enable avoidance.

These arrangements have been identified through research and collaboration with local authority practitioners. Where such an arrangement results in an advantage through a reduction in rates payable, the local authority will attribute liability to the person who would have been the ratepayer if the avoidance arrangement had not been made. And of course, the framework and the regulations provide necessary safeguards. The local authority may determine that an identified arrangement is not artificial in the individual case, having regard to all the circumstances. There are also rights of review and appeal against the imposition of liability.

Finally, Dirprwy Lywydd, it's important that the framework is supported by a proportionate sanction for those who still fail to meet their obligations. The regulations require local authorities to impose a penalty for failure to pay what is due in order to counteract an avoidance arrangement.

Nothing further to add. I think the Cabinet Secretary has answered the points in his opening remarks.

Cabinet Secretary.

Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. These regulations amend the Land Transaction Tax and Anti-avoidance of Devolved Taxes (Wales) Act 2017. They provide a new refund rule for certain transactions that are subject to the higher residential rates of land transaction tax. The new refund will apply where a person buys a dwelling costing £400,000 or less that is liable to the higher residential rate of LTT and then leases that dwelling to a Welsh local authority within 18 months of that purchase. That dwelling must be leased to the local authority for a minimum period of five years and meet all the conditions in these regulations.

The purpose of the refund is intended to incentivise the leasing of properties to Welsh local authorities under Leasing Scheme Wales, a Welsh Government scheme that contributes towards the delivery of homes at affordable rents. Taxpayers eligible for the refund would be reimbursed the difference between tax paid using the higher residential rates compared with a tax calculated using the main residential rates. The regulations therefore support wider efforts to address the impact of homelessness and reduce the use of temporary accommodation. They will help address the significant costs to the Welsh Government and local authorities of temporary accommodation and, most importantly, the detrimental impact of homelessness on individuals and families. As ever, I am grateful to the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for its report, and I ask Members to approve these regulations.

Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee considered the draft regulations yesterday, and laid its report the same day. A response from the Welsh Government is not required on this occasion. The committee’s report contains two merits scrutiny reporting points, which highlight issues that may be of interest to the Senedd. The first is that, under the regulations, the Welsh Revenue Authority must pay amounts collected in the exercise of its devolved tax functions into the Welsh consolidated fund. The second point is one just answered by the Cabinet Secretary, regarding the purchasing of houses costing over £400,000 that are then leased to a Welsh local authority.

These regulations amend the Land Transaction Tax and Anti-avoidance of Devolved Taxes (Wales) Act 2017. They provide an increase in the rate that applies to the multiple dwellings relief minimum tax rule. The minimum tax rule ensures a transaction cannot be tax free when MDR is claimed. The rule relates to all MDR claims. But, in practice, it applies primarily to mixed use transactions, that is, those transactions in which both dwellings and a commercial property are combined, such as the sale of a shop with flats above it.

Where the initial tax liability calculation in a multiple dwelling transaction shows that the liability will be less than 1 per cent of the value of those dwellings, the minimum tax rule applies. The minimum tax rule rate has been 1 per cent of the consideration given for the dwellings since 2011, when the rule was introduced into what was then stamp duty land tax. We consulted on MDR in 2024. Taking into account the views of respondents, these regulations see a modest increase of that rate from 1 to 3 per cent. That rise will improve fairness in comparison to transactions liable to the higher residential rates, while maintaining a distinct and balanced tax treatment for mixed use transactions.

I am grateful, as ever, to the LJC committee for its report and, once again, I ask Members to approve these regulations.

The Welsh Conservatives will be voting against these regulations as laid today. The Cabinet Secretary referred to the consultation responses that came through. A number of those responses pointed to the fact that these regulations would penalise investments in housing, increase costs for developers and landlords, and risk slowing the supply of homes at a time when those businesses are struggling with affordability. 

We've heard that multiple dwellings relief exists to encourage investment in housing and the private rented sector, and it helps to deliver the homes our communities need. By raising the minimum tax rates, the Government is making these investments more expensive, less attractive, particularly for those small-scale investors and landlords, who often provide significant numbers of rental properties here in Wales. I would not describe this as fairness; instead it's a disincentive to build, invest and provide the much needed housing that we need. 

The explanatory memorandum acknowledges that the impact on taxpayers will vary, with some paying more tax than under previous relief, but does not show how this policy will increase housing supply or support the local economy. And our argument is that marginally higher revenue cannot justify slowing development, reducing jobs or increasing rents. So, for these reasons, we'll oppose the regulations and we urge the Welsh Government to prioritise policies that boost housing supply, support landlords and protect jobs, rather than discouraging investment through unnecessary tax increases.

I listened carefully to what Sam Rowlands said, Dirprwy Lywydd. I suppose I was a bit surprised to hear it, given that, in England, his Government, when Rishi Sunak was Prime Minister, abolished this relief altogether on the grounds that it was ineffective and did not deliver on the purpose of the relief. I've taken a more measured approach than that in Wales, not by abolishing the relief altogether but by making sure that, when businesses take advantage of a multiple-dwelling relief, they still make a contribution to the tax base in Wales. As for the idea that this has an impact on the supply of accommodation and so on, there are 30 transactions a year in the whole of Wales that ever benefit from MDR. It is a very niche and particular set of transactions. By bundling properties together, people are able to avoid the tax liabilities that they would otherwise have incurred had they bought dwellings separately. They're in the very fortunate position of being able to do that. The fact that we are asking them to make a small additional contribution—far smaller than they would have to had they bought dwellings separately—I think is an example of extra fairness in the system, making sure that, while we do respond to the potentially positive impact of allowing multiple dwellings to be bought together, nevertheless, we expect people in the very lucky position of being able to do that to make a contribution. 

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Lywydd. I move the motion. I'm pleased to bring forward the Greenhouse Gas Emissions Trading Scheme (Amendment) (Extension to Maritime Activities) Order 2026, which amends the Greenhouse Gas Emissions Trading Scheme Order 2020 to include domestic maritime activities. The Order brings domestic maritime emissions into the scope of the UK emissions trading scheme for vessels of 5,000 gross tonnage or above from 1 July 2026. It applies a 50 per cent reduction in the UK ETS surrender obligation on routes between Northern Ireland and Great Britain. It delays the inclusion of offshore vessels until January 2027. It exempts ferries serving the Scottish islands and peninsulas from the scheme. It exempts fishing vessels from the scheme and it increases the overall cap of UK ETS allowances in line with the projected increase in emissions from the introduction of the domestic maritime sector into the UK ETS. 

Advice was sought, Dirprwy Lywydd, from the Climate Change Committee on the proposals covered in the Order. The Climate Change Committee advised against the cap adjustment to account for the inclusion of maritime, on the rationale that the original cap was set at the top of the net-zero consistent range, and they believe that the price of UK ETS allowances is too low to drive decarbonisation. However, we've decided to increase the cap to account for domestic maritime's inclusion in the UK ETS because the cap is consistent with net zero and will continue to be so with the addition of allowances for the domestic maritime sector.

The cap, to be clear, sets a long-term price signal to incentivise decarbonisation. The price is set by the market, and it's not the role of the UK ETS authority to interfere with the market price through scope expansion. Adding allowances for domestic maritime activities, and thereby maintaining the cap for existing sectors, gives the scheme credibility as it ensures continued stakeholder confidence and predictability to how the future scope expansions of the scheme will be incorporated. By including domestic maritime emissions into the UK ETS, emissions trading scheme, the scheme will cover more emissions within the UK economy and have a greater decarbonisation impact. Therefore, we will be better placed to achieve Wales's decarbonisation goals. 

Could I thank the Chair and the members of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for their diligent scrutiny of the Order as well? I commend the motion to the Chamber.

Of course, recently, as a result of good stuff coming from the UK Conservative Government, we welcomed the introduction of the Celtic Freeport. We also acknowledge the vital role that our ports play here in Wales, not only in providing a passageway for people travelling from north Wales to Ireland and back, but also in transporting goods into Wales. The inclusion of the largest shipping vessels and ferries in these regulations will add strain on these companies, such as an increase in the paperwork that will need to be completed as part of compliance with these regulations, additional bureaucracy that has the potential to act as a deterrent to these businesses and businesses seeking to use ports such as Holyhead to operate.

The Cruise Lines International Association have already raised a series of concerns on the impacts of these regulations, which include: the solutions required to decarbonise will continue to require significant investment from the cruise sector, and the ETS expansion risks diverting these funds rather than encouraging this investment into the UK, and particularly into Wales; and the risk of Welsh and UK ports being less competitive than those they compete against in the EU to attract cruise business. This could undermine a level playing field, as compliance enforcement may be limited to UK-based companies. UK companies could face full legal and financial exposure, while non-UK operators may avoid these penalties, distorting fair competition and weakening the integrity of the scheme. It is due to the additional strains and the potential for these regulations to act as a deterrent to businesses that my Welsh Conservative colleagues and I cannot support these amendments. Diolch yn fawr.

I've been contacted by representatives from the Cruise Lines International Association who, alongside the wider shipping sector, have a number of concerns about Government policy regarding the emissions trading scheme, as has been mentioned before, and the expansion of it, and how it could make Welsh ports less competitive. The cruise industry has made significant reductions in its carbon intensity in its commitment to pursuing net-zero emissions by 2050. Cruise specifically has been investing billions of pounds in new ships, innovative technologies and engines that allow fuel flexibility to use zero-carbon and near-zero-carbon fuels and technologies.

The solutions required to decarbonise will continue to require significant investment from the cruise sector, and the ETS expansion risks diverting these funds, rather than encouraging this investment within the UK. Without reinvesting revenues into maritime decarbonisation, this risks diverting capital away from the journey to pursue net-zero operations by 2050, harming UK competitiveness before essential infrastructure is in place. So, they are asking the Welsh Government to delay the inclusion of maritime in the UK ETS until full evidence and implementing guidelines are published, ensuring the industry has sufficient time to prepare.

I would like the Welsh Government to ensure the ring-fencing of all maritime ETS revenues for investment in maritime decarbonisation, including onshore power supply, future fuels and port infrastructure, and follow a phased approach for emissions to reduce the impact on planned investments and allow future planning. Given the importance of the cruise industry and tourism to north Wales, I felt it was important to raise these points to be heard today. Thank you.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Thank you for the contributions from Janet Finch-Saunders and from Carolyn as well. Can I say, right at outset, that we really welcome the efforts that have already been made by the cruise industry in particular to decarbonise? There has been investment in the fleet to decarbonise. There's more to do, but they are doing this. It's really encouraging to hear. I understand that they're on track, or they're right on track to be net zero by 2050, and that's really good news.

But we must focus on the fact that this is designed to incentivise decarbonisation, and to incentivise a range of sectors along that journey to decarbonisation. The ETS scheme works by incentivising investment in decarbonisation and then penalising those who pollute. So, the faster we decarbonise, the less those who are polluting will be penalised. The ETS, therefore, actually improves the business case for investing in decarbonisation technologies by providing a very clear incentive to carry on on that trajectory at speed.

I just want to turn to the issue of ring-fencing, which you raised. Revenue from the UK ETS is not currently hypothecated, and Welsh Government actually has no direct control over how the revenues are spent. I appreciate you asking, but it's an impossibility to do it. But Welsh Ministers have, indeed, consistently pressed for greater transparency in how the ETS revenues are used to support decarbonisation, sector by sector, covered by carbon prices. That would be really helpful, because then we could really identify within these sectors how the money is being spent to help decarbonisation.

Maritime is included in the EU emissions trading scheme, which protects industries from rerouting risks, as, if they reroute anywhere within the EU, to be crystal clear here, they will still be required to pay a carbon price, because it's within the EU scheme as well. So, there isn't a question of diverting to another port to avoid this; it's EU-wide. The inclusion of domestic maritime into the UK emissions trading scheme is also, by the way, a key condition for linking the UK and the EU ETS, and negotiations for this link, as Members will know, are currently taking place. We don't consider that a delay is necessary or appropriate. We've published an impact assessment, which accompanies the explanatory memorandum, and it covers the period from 2026 to 2046.

Just to be clear, on this journey that we're on together, scope expansion of the UK ETS to domestic maritime is estimated to lead to a net reduction of approximately 645,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent in total across the entire trading sector over that period. It was developed in wide consultation with operators, industry groups and devolved administrations. We think this is well focused, proportionate and well assessed, and it helps the sector continue to decarbonise. But thank you for those important points and I hope this motion has the support of the Siambr today.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm very pleased to introduce the Closure of European Union Legacy Agriculture Schemes (Wales) Regulations 2026. These regulations will close three out-of-date EU legacy agricultural schemes in Wales. These are the fruit and vegetable aid scheme, the public intervention scheme and the private storage aid scheme. These schemes were created in a different day under the European Union, under a very different policy landscape. These changes will simplify the approach to support farming during times of crisis and allow us to better support the current needs of Wales's horticulture and wider agricultural sectors.

The fruit and vegetable aid scheme was designed in 1996 to help larger scale horticulturalists improve efficiency. Since its inception, the scheme hasn't received any applications in Wales. This is due to the complex rules governing schemes that make it very unattractive for our sector. The public intervention and private storage aid schemes were designed to counteract the overproduction that came from the old common agricultural policy back in the 1980s—remember those overproduction times? They've lessened in importance since the changes were made to that policy in 1992. These schemes haven't been used in Wales now for over 20 years.

As we continue to refine a Welsh bespoke approach to agricultural support, it's important that we do review the relevance and the effectiveness and the practical use of some of these older mechanisms. This ensures that the support framework remains aligned with today's challenges and with sector-specific needs. The market intervention powers in the Agriculture (Wales) Act 2023 allow Welsh Ministers to provide a more effective approach to support farming during times of crisis, while the capital grants for horticulture that we've introduced in recent years have better supported an emerging and growing sector in Wales. There's a real demand for the support that we've put in place.

The regulations before Members today would implement the formal closure of these legacy schemes, which have seen no utilisation in Wales for over two decades. Their closure forms part of the ongoing efforts to simplify and modernise support for the agricultural sector moving forward. Subject to Senedd approval, Dirprwy Lywydd, the regulations will come into force on 16 February 2026.

Just to inform the Senedd, stakeholders were themselves informed of our plans to implement these regulations through a public consultation. Although the volume of responses to the proposal was limited, and I suspect some of that was because of the underuse of these and some of the ignorance, quite frankly, of these as well, because they hadn't been used for 20 years, the feedback was largely positive. Stakeholders highlighted that the complexity of these old schemes discourages participation and highlighted the need for a more modern, streamlined approach to support, better reflecting the current needs of Wales's horticulture and wider agricultural sectors.

The explanatory memorandum and the regulatory impact assessment give a fair and reasonable view of the expected impact of the regulations, and I'm satisfied that the benefits justify the likely costs. Finally, Dirprwy Lywydd, once again, I'd just like to take this opportunity to thank the Chair and members of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for their report on the regulations, which I've noted and to which I've responded as well. I would ask Members to approve these regulations.

Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee considered the draft regulations last week, and the Welsh Government’s response yesterday. The committee’s report contains five technical scrutiny reporting points and two merits scrutiny reporting points.

Three of the committee’s technical scrutiny reporting points highlighted defective drafting. Reporting point 2 highlights incorrect references to 'paragraphs' rather than 'points' in the text of the regulations. Reporting point 4 highlights ambiguity in determining the provision to be amended by regulation 10, and reporting point 5 highlights a numbering error in the draft regulations.

The Welsh Government has accepted the technical points made by the committee. It will make amendments prior to making in respect of reporting points 2 and 4. However, it does not consider that the error in reporting point 5 requires correction.

The committee’s first merits scrutiny reporting point highlights that a consultation on the regulations was carried out between June and August 2025. Only two pertinent responses were received to the consultation, both of which agreed with the proposed changes.

Finally, the committee’s second merits scrutiny reporting point sets out the Welsh Government’s view that the regulations will reduce the financial and administrative risk on public finances by closing schemes that, it argues, are of no use to the agricultural sector.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Thank you to the Chair of the committee. I was pleased that we were able to respond quite positively to those technical and merits points. Thanks for your scrutiny on this. Certainly, in terms of merits scrutiny point 1, the consultation, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, indeed, had a limited response, and I suspect that's because many people had looked at these and thought, 'What are these? They haven't been used for 20 years.' But those that did respond were quite clear when we asked them for their views. Most respondents were unaware of, for example, what the public intervention and private storage aid schemes were, and they were happy for the schemes to be closed.

In terms of merits point 2, we noted that overall feedback suggested that these schemes were of no use to the agricultural sector in Wales, and closing them would have no impact on the sector in Wales. But thank you for your scrutiny on these points, and I'm pleased we've been able to respond. But, fundamentally, these schemes that we are proposing to close are no longer active or relevant within Wales's current policy framework, and what we can do now is focus on our existing agricultural support structures so that they are really current, practical and of use to the farming and horticultural sector. Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. The Renting Homes (Model Written Statements of Contract) (Wales) (Amendments etc.) Regulations 2026 make necessary consequential amendments to the Renting Homes (Model Written Statements of Contract) (Wales) Regulations 2022 following the passage of the Renters' Rights Act 2025. The 2025 Act inserted two new sections into the Renting Homes (Wales) Act 2016 regarding new requirements on landlords to include additional fundamental terms in occupation contracts in order to prevent landlord discrimination. These regulations ensure that specified model written statements of occupation contracts produced under the 2016 Act contain new fundamental terms, as inserted by the 2025 Act.

These new fundamental terms will prevent a landlord from discriminating against a contract holder with children or when a contract holder is in receipt of benefits. The Renters' Rights Act 2025 (Commencement) (Wales) Order 2026, will bring these and other related provisions in the 2025 Act into force on 1 June 2026. This will align with the commencement date of these regulations, ensuring that landlords are provided with sufficient time to update their occupation contracts and notify their contract holders of these changes. I'm grateful to the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for reporting on these regulations and I ask Members to approve the regulations.

Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee considered the draft regulations last week, and the Welsh Government’s response yesterday. The committee’s single reporting point seeks clarity from the Welsh Government about how certain powers cited are relied on in these regulations. Specifically, it asks the Welsh Government to clarify how regulations 3 and 4 rely on the powers conferred in sections 141(1) and 141(2) of the Renters’ Rights Act 2025. The Welsh Government has responded that the powers are relevant because the regulations are consequential to provision in the 2025 Act. The response sets out more detail in relation to that justification. The committee noted the Welsh Government’s response.

No.

The Bill secures an aligned, coherent and fair approach to medical training prioritisation across the UK. It ensures graduates from medical schools in the UK, Ireland and European Free Trade Association countries are offered training places ahead of other eligible applicants. It means doctors who have chosen to train in Wales, wherever they're from, will be able to continue their training and careers in Wales. But I want to be very clear: it does not mean that Wales or indeed the UK will be closed to international medical graduates, of course, who have supported the NHS, importantly, with their dedicated service over many generations.

Transitional arrangements will apply in 2026, including temporary categories to support current trainees and applicants with certain immigration statuses. From 2027, Welsh Ministers, alongside the Secretary of State, will hold regulation-making powers to determine additional priority groups and amend the priority country list, where needed, to reflect international obligations. I am grateful to the UK Government for their collaboration in relation to the devolution elements of this Bill.

A statutory UK-wide system avoids the operational, financial and workforce risks that would arise if Wales were required to develop separate foundation or specialty training schemes. Divergence from the established four-nation model would create significant administrative burdens and risk increasing oversubscription pressures in Wales. Maintaining consistency across the UK training system supports effective workforce planning, protects access for UK-trained applicants and provides continuity for training programmes delivered in Wales. The Bill aligns with devolved responsibilities for workforce planning and medical education.

The majority of the Bill's provisions with fall within the Senedd's legislative competence. Holding this debate today ensures the Senedd's view will be clearly heard and represented as this important piece of legislation makes its expedited journey through the Houses of Parliament. If further amendments are made to the Bill, I will ensure an updated legislative consent memorandum is laid before the Senedd. Finally, if the Bill is passed, the Welsh Government will continue to work closely with our UK counterparts and with partners and stakeholders to support its effective implementation.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I will speak briefly to put on the record that, in the very limited time available to the Health and Social Care Committee to consider this LCM, we were able to give it only the briefest of consideration. The LCM was referred to us on 3 February with a reporting deadline of 10 February. This very small window did not allow the committee to carry out its usual inquiry work or to engage with stakeholders in any way. This is particularly disappointing given that, as is clear from the memorandum, there have been discussions on the Bill between the Governments in the UK for some time, and yet the Senedd was given very little notice of the consent request. The committee appreciates that the Bill is working to an accelerated time frame in Westminster, but that should not, in and of itself, be a reason to limit the opportunities for the Senedd committees to consider this important piece of legislation. I ask the Cabinet Secretary to reflect on this, and I have written to the Business Committee setting out the health committee's concerns in this area and asking them to consider these matters as part of their legacy work. Diolch.

Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee considered the Welsh Government's legislative consent memorandum yesterday, and laid its report today. The Medical Training (Prioritisation) Bill has been subject to expedited scrutiny in the UK Parliament, and I will return to that shortly.

Firstly, and most simply, the committee agrees with the assessment of the Welsh and UK Governments that all of the Bill's provisions have regard to devolved Welsh matters, and therefore require the Senedd's consent. Of course, on this occasion, it's whether the Senedd has been given every opportunity possible to make an informed decision about whether to grant that consent. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, like the health committee, has concluded that it has not.

The legislative consent memorandum was laid on 28 January, one day outside the two-week window set out in Standing Orders. That afforded us just nine working days, including today, to consider and report on it. This is despite the fact that both the UK Government and the Welsh Government have stated clearly that regular engagement between them has been under way since September.

We see no reason why the Welsh Government could not have laid its legislative consent memorandum as soon as possible within the two-week deadline set out in Standing Orders, given the extent of the Welsh Government's engagement with UK Government about this Bill. I ask the Cabinet Secretary to clarify to the Senedd why the memorandum for such a time-critical piece of legislation could not have been laid earlier.

I mentioned in my opening remarks that the committee laid its report on the memorandum today. That means, of course, that it is very challenging for the Cabinet Secretary to have considered and responded in full to the report in time for today's debate in the Senedd. In turn, this means that the Senedd's debate today will not be informed by concerns raised in this, or any other, committee report on the memorandum.

Again, I stress that the Welsh Government's engagement on this Bill with the UK Government has been ongoing since September. In that context, the committee regrets the scheduling to debate the legislative consent motion on the same day as the deadline for committees to report on the memorandum.

The committee's report also notes that the final deadline for substantive amendments to the UK Government Bill is scheduled for 19 February. It is therefore unclear whether, if the Senedd withholds its consent today, the Bill could be amended to address the Senedd's concerns.

Cabinet Secretary, if that is the case, and the Senedd does not grant its consent, can you please set out what steps you will take to pursue amendments to the Bill in the UK Parliament to reflect the Senedd's determination? Will there be sufficient time in the UK Parliament's scrutiny timetable to do so? If not, the committee has fundamental concerns about the consent process in relation to expedited UK Bills, and the extent to which the views of the Senedd can meaningfully influence the legislation.

It would raise a wider point about the consent process for an expedited scrutiny timetable in relation to any future UK Government Bill, particularly one making provisions that would be regarded as more contentious and divisive than the Bill before us today, and the challenges that committees may face when scrutinising such a Bill.  I draw this point to the attention of the Senedd. We have to make decisions on non-contentious Bills, so if a contentious Bill comes up, exactly the same process will be carried out.

Finally, Deputy Presiding Officer, the committee's report notes that three clauses of the Bill confer regulation-making powers on both the Secretary of State and the Welsh Ministers simultaneously, so-called 'concurrent powers'. One of these confers powers on the Secretary of State to make regulations in devolved areas without seeking the consent of the Welsh Ministers. I have stated before in this Chamber that the Welsh Government's own principle on UK legislation in devolved areas is that concurrent powers should not be created by UK Bills except in exceptional circumstances. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee has therefore asked the Welsh Government to justify how each concurrent power in this Bill represents an exceptional case. I ask the Cabinet Secretary to respond to our concerns about concurrent powers in the Bill, providing the Senedd with a general justification for their inclusion in the Bill, in his response to today's debate. Diolch.

On Friday, I visited the excellent cancer research unit at Bangor University, and they spoke so positively about the new medical school in north Wales where they've been training doctors up. So, I've just got a short question, really, to the Cabinet Secretary: would this have an impact on that in north Wales? Thank you.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd, and thank you to those who’ve contributed in the debate. Perhaps I could start my response by reflecting on the points that the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee made in relation both to the timing and the substance of the LCM, and I hope the points on timing also address the points that the Chair of the Health and Social Care Committee has raised as well. I think we’re all operating in an expedited timetable in relation to this LCM. I’m therefore grateful in particular to the legislation and justice committee for having considered the Bill. The Bill, as the Chair said, was laid one day outside the 14-day period that is set out. I would say that, although there have been discussions, which started in the autumn, the Bill itself, to which the LCM, of course, relates, was developed and introduced at pace over the Christmas period. So, I think the ability of the Welsh Government to respond as quickly as it did, whilst not providing the time any of us would wish, both to the Government and to committees, was fast in that particular context. The committee makes the point that the debate will not be informed by the content of the committee's report, but I do think that the Chamber will have the benefit of the points that the Chair has set out.

The Chair asked me a number of particular points in relation to timing and the relationship between a decision of this Senedd and the legislative process in Parliament. I can confirm that I do consider there is sufficient time between the debate and the final amending stages of the Bill for the UK Parliament to consider any amendments, and indeed the motion debate has been scheduled when it has in order to facilitate that, and I recognise the impact that has on other considerations.

Both the Chair and the Plaid Cymru spokesperson made points in relation to the 'concurrent plus' arrangements in the Bill. I can confirm that this is in accordance with the Government's guidance, so it's not a breach of the Sewel convention, as Mabon ap Gwynfor was seeking to argue. I do consider the 'concurrent plus' powers in the Bill are an exceptional case, because the UK foundation programme and specialty training are delivered through a single UK-wide system, as at present. So, consistent implementation across the four nations is essential to protect medical training pipelines and, in these limited areas, a unified legislative approach is necessary. I hope the points that the Chair of the Health and Social Care Committee made have been addressed in those responses. I will say that I was grateful of the opportunity, when I attended his committee recently, to have had the opportunity of answering some questions specifically on this LCM in those discussions.

So, Dirprwy Lywydd, in closing, I encourage the Senedd today to give its consent to the Bill. It provides a clear, practical and responsible framework to support our medical workforce now and in the future, and I'm pleased that no Member speaking has disagreed with that principle.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. As Members will be aware, I did not move the financial resolution motion when the general principles of the Senedd Cymru (Member Accountability and Elections) Bill were debated on 13 January. I set out at that point that I wanted to consider the implications of the regulatory impact assessment of the committee recommendations to remove much of the detail from Part 2 of the Bill in relation to lay members to be appointed to the Standards of Conduct Committee.

Having undertaken that consideration, I'm of the view that if the detail in Part 2 of the Bill were to be removed, the already significant level of uncertainty underpinning the assumptions in the RIA would be compounded. Consequently, it would not be possible to provide a reasonable estimate of the costs associated with the appointment of lay members, or set out the time frame over which those costs would fall. The estimated costs would become unknown. It was important that Members were aware of this position ahead of considering the financial resolution.

I have noted the letter from the Chair of the Standards of Conduct Committee to the Chair of the Member Accountability Bill Committee, which takes a different view to the level of detail that should be included in Part 2 of the Bill. A number of Stage 2 amendments have been tabled on this matter, and I look forward to the debate in committee later this week.

If any such changes are given effect by way of Stage 2 amendments, I will make the necessary revisions to the RIA, reflecting the changes to the assumptions that support the current estimates. The RIA accurately reflects the potential cost implications of the Bill as introduced, and on that basis I'm content to formally move the financial resolution today.

I'm grateful to the Finance Committee for their report on this Bill, and I will continue to work closely with stakeholders to refine the cost estimates during the Bill's passage through the Senedd. In particular, and in response to the recommendations of the Finance Committee, I will, in consultation with the Senedd Commission, look to establish the estimated cost of providing lay members with an induction and ongoing support, and, in consultation with the Senedd Commission and the commissioner for standards, establish the opportunity costs associated with undertaking own-initiative investigations. Diolch.

Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. I'm proud to move this motion today, which brings this unique and long-awaited piece of legislation closer to implementation. The Homelessness and Social Housing Allocation (Wales) Bill has been shaped with people who have experienced homelessness for those at risk of it. It is rooted not in theory, but in lived experience, in the testimony of people who know the fear, indignity and harm homelessness can bring. These are people who have transformed their lives against the odds—people who, having endured the toughest time of their lives, have bravely chosen to share those experiences with all of us, who have both the privilege and the responsibility to change the law.

We are today joined by Scotty and Phil, two exceptional men who have worked with us to develop the Bill. Their experiences are intrinsic to the legislation. They were with my predecessor, Julie James, and Siân Gwenllian at the launch of our White Paper. They were with us in this place to introduce the Bill, and I wanted to make sure they were with us again here today. I do not know how many of us could face the hardship that they have with the bravery, strength and generosity that they have shown. I cannot overstate my gratitude nor my awe for them and for every person who trusted us with their story so that others might be spared the same hardship. This Bill belongs to them and we will continue to work with experts by experience as we deliver the legislation into practice.

This bold and ambitious Bill will be a catalyst for profound change across Wales's statutory homelessness system. I know that for local authorities change is daunting, and I am grateful for their honesty, their dialogue and their constructive challenge as we balance bold ambition with practical delivery. I call on them to embrace the opportunity this Bill presents to renew our shared commitment to ensure that homelessness is rare, brief and never repeated. I thank our third sector partners and the wider housing sector, whose expertise and persistence have strengthened the work at every stage. I pay particular tribute to housing officers and support workers. It takes an extraordinary person to dedicate themselves to ending homelessness. I cannot thank them enough for the commitment, compassion and perseverance they show every day.

I also extend my thanks to Professor Fitzpatrick for her leadership of the expert review panel, whose work forms a fundamental pillar of this legislation. And I want to thank my officials for their hard work, dedication and commitment to this Bill. It's a privilege to work with such a compassionate, professional team, who have spent so much time to get this right. And to my predecessor, Julie James, your passion and commitment to ending homelessness laid the foundation for these reforms. I thank the Chairs and members of the committees who have scrutinised this Bill so rigorously, in particular Siân Gwenllian, Joel James and their staff, for their constructive and principled engagement. While we may differ on some issues, we have worked together on shared values, and this Bill is stronger for that collaboration.

Deputy Llywydd, these reforms are transformational, but they are not a quick fix. This is an evidence-based, expert-informed package of change. It will take time, but it will build a system capable of meeting the demands of the future and responding to the changing demography of Wales. Much work remains, but, should the Senedd pass this Bill today, we take a monumental step forward. I'm profoundly proud of this legislation, Deputy Llywydd, and of the world-leading homelessness system it will create for Wales. Diolch. 

I think every Member here agrees how important it is to not only tackle homelessness, but to make sure it doesn't happen in the first place. That is why one of the greatest disappointments that I have with this legislation is how late in the parliamentary cycle this Bill has come forward to us, limiting the time we have had to properly scrutinise it, and showing in quite stark terms where the priorities of this Labour Government lie.

However, we will be supporting this legislation, and I would like to thank the local government and housing team, along with the officials who have worked on this Bill. They've worked to some extremely tight deadlines set by the Government, and their hard work and commitment should be properly recognised.

While the Welsh Conservatives are supporting this Bill, I want to put on record our disappointment that veterans are not explicitly exempt from local connection tests, something we believe should appear on the face of the Bill. This submission places Welsh veterans at a clear disadvantage compared with those in England, and runs counter to the spirit and intent of the armed forces covenant.

In England, veterans are now exempt from local connection requirements for social housing allocations, recognising the unique nature of military service. The absence of a comparable exemption in Wales for homelessness support risks undermining equal treatment under the covenant and creates clear policy inconsistency across the rest of the United Kingdom.

Many veterans have been required to move repeatedly throughout their military careers, and as a result have been unable to establish long-term ties to any single local authority area. The Welsh Conservatives believe that local connection tests are deliberately discriminative towards veterans. The amendments put forward by myself in Stage 2, and further amendments by Rhys ab Owen in Stage 3, were designed to level the playing field for veterans in this regard. It is extremely frustrating to note that, while they were supported by Plaid Cymru at Stage 2, they were not supported by them at Stage 3. Likewise, for all their talk on veterans' rights, yet again Reform was absent in this Chamber when we discussed them—no amendments and no interaction.

Because of this, veterans under this Bill may still find themselves referred back to areas they cannot realistically or safely return to, delaying access to support at a time of acute need. This is not only unfair, it directly disadvantages them compared with civilians who have been able to put down permanent roots. These concerns are not unique to the Welsh Conservatives. The Veterans’ Commissioner for Wales, alongside homelessness organisations and housing charities, have all raised serious concerns about the lack of an exemption for veterans and their families. Again, had this Bill been brought forward earlier in the parliamentary term, I believe we could have reached agreement on including a specific exemption for veterans on the face of this Bill. Veterans' rights is a policy we will always, as Welsh Conservatives, continue to pursue, and we will with this.

Finally—and I am conscious of time—we must also recognise that relationship breakdown is a major driver of homelessness, and considerably more needs to be done to improve access to effective support and care, an area where Wales is still continuing to fall short. While this Bill claims to focus on preventing homelessness in the short term, I am concerned that it will amount to little more than warm words. Without a serious and sustained increase in housing supply, its ambitions simply cannot be realised. Wales is in the grip of a housing crisis, and no amount of legislative intent can hide the fact that this crisis continues to be ignored. Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd.

Move to the vote.

Ten minutes because in five minutes the bell will ring, five minutes before we start.

Diolch, Llywydd. Group 1 relates to the environmental principles, as has been said. The amendments we’re putting forward today, 9 and 10, insert additional environmental principles into section 2 of the Bill, the precise meaning of these principles and how they relate to existing principles in section 2 of the Bill. I must say, at this stage, that I’d like to thank our lawyers; our researchers, Ella Tregaskes and Jena Quilter; the climate change committee; and the Minister himself, because we’ve actually worked, haven't we, throughout each stage.

Dr Victoria Jenkins summed up what most of us believe, and I agree with the Countryside Alliance that there would be merit in including these proposed principles in the Bill, as they will ensure that we will leave the environment in a better place than when we found it, recognising the interconnectedness of areas such as water catchment areas, wildlife corridors and the marine environment.

Amendment 11 will ensure that the Welsh Ministers review the section 6 statement at least once every two years. While the environmental principles are already well recognised internationally, it is the statement that will determine their meaning and how that will be applied in a Welsh context. Currently, I know there’s support from the Minister to go for five years. That is longer than the new Senedd terms of four years, and I think, really, that this Bill is so delayed, and we’ve seen so many species go into decline here in Wales, that, actually, now we need to make sure that any legislation we pass here is fit for purpose, and the only way you can do that is by holding your reviews every two years. Diolch.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd, and thank you, Janet, for moving this. As we open today's Stage 3 proceedings on the Environment (Principles, Governance and Biodiversity Targets) (Wales) Bill, I just want to also express my sincere thanks to all those who’ve brought us to this point, including Members, but also the Senedd committees for their very thoughtful, rigorous scrutiny, and stakeholders across Wales—the environmental groups, the public bodies, the academics and community organisations—who have engaged with such commitment and candour throughout the process. Also, just a word for my small team of officials, who’ve worked not just with me, but through me, in engaging with Members of the Senedd across parties as well.

The strength of this Bill is that it is a product of that collaboration; the constructive cross-party engagement that has supported its development is testament to a shared recognition that protecting the environment is a matter of our collective responsibility. The amendments made to date by both Government and committee members reflect this, and they’ve led to a more robust, more coherent and, ultimately, more effective Bill; that’s what scrutiny is about. This Bill represents the Senedd at its best, working together to strengthen the future that we’re building for Wales.

I know, Janet, and I appreciate, that this legislation has been long anticipated, but I can assure you that the time has not been wasted. We have significantly benefited from learning how environmental protection and governance arrangements have evolved elsewhere in the UK and, indeed, internationally. We’ve seen what has worked well and where challenges have emerged. This has enabled us to design a model that is not simply comparable to counterparts in the UK, but is, actually, in many respects, stronger, and one that reflects the distinct needs of Wales and our unique policy and legislative landscape.

This Bill provides us with a real opportunity for a step change, establishing an environmental objective that is focused on a high level of environmental protection and improvement of the environment; four core environmental principles and duties to integrate environmental protection; an independent environmental governance body with authority, expertise and teeth; and a framework empowering Welsh Ministers to set targets in secondary legislation to contribute to halting and reversing biodiversity loss. As a whole, it gives us the framework to respond to the nature and climate emergencies we face today, but also to challenges that will impact future generations.

But I just want to be clear that we can only realise these opportunities if the Bill passes and if it passes in a form that's deliverable. The effective implementation requires legislation that is clear, workable, and grounded in the practical realities of the systems and institutions it creates. The Bill before all of us today has been strengthened with that in mind. It's ambitious, yes, but it's also achievable. And it's through that combination of ambition and deliverability that we will deliver the change that we need.

As we move through today’s amendments, I really look forward to continuing that collaborative spirit that has brought us this far. Because we have an opportunity here in front of us. In that spirit, can I thank Members in advance for their amendments that we're debating and the opportunity to set out this Government’s position on them? There will be amendments this evening that I look forward to supporting, in that collaborative spirit. There are others where I will explain why we cannot, but, I always hope, in a constructive and meaningful way.

Let me turn to the amendments in this group in Janet's name: amendment 9 and amendment 10. Just to note, these amendments were, indeed, tabled and discussed at Stage 2 and they were rejected at that point. I don’t support these amendments because of the same reasons, which I'll lay out now for the whole Senedd Chamber. They were, indeed, discussed and rejected at an earlier stage, Stage 2, where I explained that the four environmental principles in the Bill and the duty to integrate environmental protection are based on concepts that have developed over decades, including through international agreements, and EU and domestic legislation. They are very well developed and very clearly understood. But in addition, we've placed the stronger special regard duty on the Welsh Ministers and Natural Resources Wales on the basis of these well-understood and developed set of principles—special regard; it goes beyond what is in other pieces of legislation. 

Adding further, less developed principles into this list risks significant uncertainty and even barriers towards effective delivery. The environmental principles and the integration duty presented in the Bill are supported—I've got to make clear—by a wide range of stakeholders and a case for additional principles has not been made throughout our engagement with those stakeholders. Furthermore, relevant aspects of these principles are actually already captured, to differing extents, and, I would say, to a more effective and appropriate degree, within the environmental objective and the duty to integrate environmental protection.

I can give you an example. Non-regression is generally interpreted to require that there should not be a roll back on environmental standards. The environmental objective, however, aims the duties in Part 1 at the attainment of a high level of environmental protection and an improvement of the environment. This goes beyond non-regression, in terms of preventing any lowering of ambition, and it focuses on contributing to a high level of environmental protection and actual improvement to the environment. I consider these amendments could be highly detrimental to the policy outcomes sought. In addition, the intended effect of amendment 9 is not entirely clear as to whether the Member proposes that the net-gain principle should be included in addition to the three principles set out in amendment 10, or something else. For these reasons, I do not support these amendments.

If I turn to amendments 11, 12 and 13, and certainly amendment 11, a similar amendment was tabled and rejected at an earlier committee stage. During Stage 2, I tabled an amendment, which was accepted, that requires Welsh Ministers to review the statement after each general election. The Welsh Ministers may also review the statement at any other time. This reflected, indeed, recommendation 7 of the Climate Change, Environment and Infrastructure Committee Stage 1 report, so that's what we've done. This is proportionate, we believe, with the nature of the statement, which is intended to be enduring and strategic, covering a wide range of cases.

I don’t consider it desirable to require a statement of this nature to be reviewed as frequently as every two years, as proposed by amendment 11. The review will take account of relevant considerations, including wider policy changes, technological and scientific developments, and they are unlikely to change substantially over a period of two years. In the event that circumstances mean that it is appropriate to review the statement more than once in a Senedd term, then, as I explained, the Bill provides appropriate flexibility to do so. That mandatory two-year cycle could, Janet, lead to real bureaucratic burdens without providing any substantive positive effect. So, I don't support amendments 11, 12 or 13 on that basis, which are consequential on this amendment, but I hope I've explained why.  

Janet Finch-Saunders to respond.

Diolch, Llywydd. I'll just say that recently I attended a technical briefing from your officials, and they actually admitted that they were way behind where they should be in terms of this agenda. That made me even more steadfast that we really do need to nail your feet to the floor on this, because we do not know what new Governments may be here who are not enthused by looking after the environment. Anyway, I'll respect your views on this, but let's move to the vote on it.

Is amendment 10 being moved, Janet Finch-Saunders?

Amendment 11. Is it being moved?

Amendment 12. Is it being moved?

Move.

Amendment 13. Is it being moved?

Move.

The need for action could not be clearer. The 2023 'State of Nature' report showed the average abundance of terrestrial and freshwater species in Wales had declined by 20 per cent over the last three decades. Iconic species are disappearing before our eyes. The fate of the shrill carder bee, of which I'm species champion, hangs in the balance, and we'll be talking later, of course, about swifts, about curlews. These are not abstract statistics or points, they represent the loss of sound, place and memory in our world. Without action, the dawn chorus risks becoming something future generations will only read about, as they gaze at our skies and wonder how we allowed it all to be lost.

Nature is central to our well-being and it is also one of our strongest allies in tackling the climate crisis. Healthy ecosystems store carbon, reduce flood risk, protect homes and support our food security.

So, to turn to my amendment in this group, Llywydd, amendment 53 aims to ensure all policy making is underpinned by strong environmental principles. This amendment would ensure that there is a review of the contribution of Part 1 of the Bill, which sets out duties for Ministers, NRW and public bodies to consider environmental principles and so on to achieving the environmental objectives set out in section 1. It would also ensure that such a review would take place within five years of the Bill passing through the Senedd.

In terms of its importance in including a duty to review these principles—and, again, I am going to be very interested in hearing the Dirprwy Brif Weinidog's response to this amendment when I am determining whether or not to push it to a vote—but to make sure that we need to have a mechanism, or certainly, to ensure that this works as it's intended, because there is so much at stake—. For example, research has identified over 45,000 potentially contaminated land sites across Wales; almost none have been inspected. This hidden legacy could pose serious threats to people, to water, to wildlife. How different might planning policy look had principles of prevention, mitigation and polluter responsibility informed the development of our contaminated land regime more robustly? Polluters are getting away without conducting remediation, and this must stop. It would be vital for that implementation of the polluter-pays principle to be improved and embedded in policy decisions across Government.

At Stage 2, I submitted an amendment that would have required a review in three years, complemented by further regular reviews. The feedback was that that was not proportionate, and I've taken that on board. Therefore, the timescale for review has been increased in this amendment from three to five years and the need for further reviews and their potential frequency left with Ministers.

As I say, I would be interested to hear the Dirprwy Brif Weinidog's response in terms of whether there are other ways in which something like this might be achieved, just to make sure that the environmental objectives that the Bill sets out to achieve are actually achieved, and to learn possibly from UK Government departments that have offered a more defined route. 

As I've already said, I can't disagree with a lot of what you said, Delyth, but as far as I'm concerned, to hold the fire to the feet of the Minister and the Government in the future, I believe that these reviews should take place every two years.

I'm going to try, in the way that we've done throughout the Committee Stage on this, to explain why I don't think this is needed. There are indeed ways that we can make this happen, but I understand the spirit in which this has been moved and what you're trying to do, and I think I can give you three primary reasons why this is not necessary.

Firstly, because of the work that we've already done with stakeholders, including environmental non-governmental organisations, and with committee members and colleagues, that gives me the full confidence that the provisions that we've put in place in Part 1 will be effective in achieving the policy intent, including that contribution to a high level of environmental protection and improving the environment pursuant to the environmental objective. Now, that's very clear. It's all the work that we've done on this Bill, including the improvements and amendments as well, and the creation of a mandatory report, as envisaged by this provision—it's unnecessary, not least because it suggests that we don't have sufficient confidence in this legislation that we're taking through, which isn't actually the case, and I notice the broad welcome of the ENGOs and others in what we've done, because we've done this together, and I have confidence in this legislation.

But, secondly, just as a matter of course, we will indeed review the implementation of legislation and its policy effects to ensure effective delivery. We've purposefully expressed in the explanatory materials that we will monitor the impact of the provisions in Part 1, and the accompanying environmental principles and the integrated environmental protection statement and guidance, through continued engagement with stakeholders. So, that's spelt out. And this includes, by the way, work assessing the efficacy of those very principles.

But thirdly and importantly, it must also be borne in mind that the Office of Environmental Governance Wales itself will have an important role in assessing whether the principles are effective, providing advice and recommendations to the Government from time to time, as it sees fit—this question we've always had about the OEGW having the independence to say that, to speak the truth to Ministers, as it sees fit. Now, this could indeed include recommendations for potential changes to legislation. So, I'm concerned that an amendment of this nature, whilst well intended, might actually affect the OEGW's role in this respect.

Finally, it's an important issue, but it's a technical issue. There's a technical issue with the amendment, as all of the Act that we have in front of us does not come into force on the same day. So, as such, it's not quite clear when the five-year period within which the report must be made, which the amendment indicates should begin when the Act comes into force—when it would actually commence. So, there's a technical deficiency here as well. For these reasons—why we can do this in a different way, and also that technical deficiency—I can't support this amendment, but I do actually understand the great intentions behind this. I hope that that helps explain.

Diolch, Llywydd. This amendment requires the Welsh Ministers to consult the Senedd's prevailing environment committee before making regulations to change the number of permissible non-executive members of the OEGW. This is a distinct and strong measure to protect the independence of the OEGW. Amendment 25 disqualifies a member of staff of the Welsh Government from being a member of the OEGW. Again, this is a measure to protect the independence of this body.

Amendment 26 calls for the OEGW to be funded from the Welsh consolidated fund and Senedd budget motion. This amendment will require Senedd Cymru to examine and review the expenditure and functions of the OEGW regularly. I thought, at one stage, we were going to try and change that acronym, but heigh-ho. It is due to this that my Welsh Conservative colleagues and I will not support amendment 32, as we believe that our amendment 26 encapsulates the intention of amendment 32. Thank you.

I'll speak to the amendments in my name in this group. Firstly, amendment 46 would ensure that any non-executive member of the OEGW can only be appointed with the Senedd's approval. This would be a straightforward safeguard that would strengthen the body's independence, I think. It would mean that Welsh Ministers could not appoint members alone, and would ensure greater transparency, democratic oversight and public confidence in the OEGW from the start. Having said that, I do appreciate some of the points that have been made at Stage 2, and, again, I would be interested to hear the Dirprwy Brif Weinidog's response on that point.

To speak to amendment 48, now that would remove the OEGW from section 6 of the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. I have tabled this as a probing amendment only. I will not be pushing this to a vote. Now, the reason I've tabled it is that the OEGW is an oversight body, not a service delivery body. So, technically, including this reference could potentially distract from its core functions. It was a point that was raised with us during scrutiny at committee level. The auditor general confirmed that it is more comparable with bodies like the ombudsman and that it could not reasonably be expected to set objectives across all well-being goals. Its relationship with the future generations commissioner is already covered through requirements in the Bill to avoid duplication. Now, I wanted to make this point, Llywydd, as it was raised during scrutiny, but I do anticipate similar points might be made in response to those that were made at Stage 2 about the optics. And, of course, I firmly support the idea of the well-being of future generations Act. I'm not currently minded to push this to a vote, though, because of those technical points that were raised with us, I thought it was important for us to air these during Stage 3, merely to get on the record how the OEGW and the office of the future generations commissioner will interact. Diolch.

I'd like to speak to amendment 32 regarding sufficiency of funding for the OEGW. This amendment would mean that, if the OEGW considers that Welsh Ministers have not provided sufficient funding, and chooses to reflect this in its annual report, then the OEGW must submit the report to the Welsh Ministers. This is in addition to the existing requirement to lay annual reports before the Senedd. The intended outcome is to strengthen safeguards around the OEGW's funding by increasing accountability and heightening political scrutiny on the funding arrangements if the OEGW considers there to be a deficiency. The fact that the amendment sets out the consequences of an annual report indicating that the OEGW considers that it has not received sufficient funding also makes clear that the OEGW's existing reporting and ancillary powers allow it to express its views on sufficiency of funding. And importantly, this will remain a discretionary matter for the OEGW.

It's important that the OEGW has the power to give its view on funding, and this amendment sets out an additional requirement when it does so for the purposes of increasing accountability and scrutiny. This is an important measure, and I encourage all Members to support this amendment. Thank you.

Diolch, Llywydd. First of all, thanks to all Members for moving these amendments. It’s a bit of a mix here, so I'll try not to take too long, but I'm going to begin on the positive. I'm going to turn to Janet's amendment, first of all, amendment 33. Janet, I'm pleased to say I fully support this amendment in your name. [Interruption.] Yes, I know. [Laughter.] Indeed, Janet brought forward an amendment at Stage 2 that would have required the Welsh Ministers to consult with the committee of the Senedd with the remit for environmental protection before making regulations to change the number of non-executive appointments. I outlined at Stage 2 that I thought there was merit in her proposal, but we actually thought the provision could even go further and include a requirement to also consult the OEGW and any other persons the Welsh Ministers consider appropriate. So, given the inclusion of consultation with the OEGW in your amendment, I'm pleased to be fully able to support it, and I would urge other Members to do the same.

If I can turn then, having started on a positive, to amendment 25, which is an amendment similar to one that was tabled and rejected during Stage 2, the purpose of paragraph 3 of Schedule 1 to the Bill, which this amendment would amend, is to disqualify members of certain public and/or political offices from being members of the OEGW. This is because there could be a direct conflict of interest in these cases, particularly in relation to organisations that the OEGW is directly overseeing. Now, there is currently no provision to disqualify members of staff of those organisations, as we consider it appropriate for any conflicts of interest to be managed through the appropriate administrative procedures. We just do not consider there to be a strong rationale to single out and disqualify Welsh Government members of staff. Any potential conflicts of interest here can be, and indeed are, managed appropriately as would be done in the case of members of staff from local authorities, NRW or any other organisations listed where holders of public office are disqualified.

Furthermore, the regulation-making power at paragraph 3(1)(i) will enable the Welsh Ministers to amend the list to include members of other organisations and those organisations' members of staff if that were considered necessary in the future. So, there is provision to do this. This will enable Welsh Ministers to maintain a watching brief as to whether more disqualifications are necessary in future. So, for those reasons, I don't consider this amendment appropriate to be made.

If I turn to amendment 46, again this was tabled at Stage 2, or a similar one, but was withdrawn during the session based on the arguments we outlined at the time. But, if it helps again, Delyth, and also the wider Siambr, I'm very happy to lay out the rationale again for why I wouldn't support this. So, requiring Senedd approval for the appointment of five to seven non-executive members could indeed add delays into the process. They may be short, but they could be significant, bearing in mind the way that the Senedd works and the process works.

During Stage 2, we did a number of things. We strengthened the independence and the integrity of the appointments process through amendments that we brought forward to require Welsh Ministers to have regard to the OEGW's independence when exercising their functions in relation to it, including in appointing non-executive members, and by requiring the appointment panel to include a Senedd Member. So, we strengthened these aspects as we went through Stage 2. Now, this is in addition to the requirements on Welsh Ministers to consult the relevant Senedd committee before appointing or reappointing a chair and a deputy chair. Now, we feel strongly that these measures are a much more practical way to enhance the appointments process whilst also ensuring we get timely appointments and no delays, aligning, by the way, with the established process used for roles such as the Welsh Language Commissioner. So, that's why I wouldn't support this amendment.

On amendment 26, Janet, this is another one that was tabled and then rejected at Stage 2. This is because this significant amendment would add a substantive risk, we believe, and inflexibility into the funding arrangements for OEGW. We did consider the funding source for the OEGW at an earlier stage, as I outlined at Stage 2 discussions, including the potential use of the Welsh consolidated fund. We consulted on this matter in the White Paper and concluded that there is a significant benefit to funding the OEGW through Welsh Government budgets. Let me explain why. The clearest benefit would actually be the flexibility this provides. We know from experience now, from looking across the borders, that both the Office for Environmental Protection in England and Environmental Standards Scotland in Scotland have had highly variable budgets in their formative years, and Ministers across the border have had to increase and decrease their funding accordingly as those years have gone by.

Now, I appreciate that funding from Welsh Government could be seen as less independent, but we're confident the provisions of the Bill, as amended at Stage 2, which I just highlighted, to require Welsh Ministers to have regard to the OEGW's independence, and the requirement to provide sufficient funding, are a much more effective safeguard. Those, in my view, are more practical and sensible ways to strengthen and safeguard the role of the OEGW and its funding without exposing them to risks around funding and flexibility, which we believe amendment 26 would do. So, that's why I can't support this amendment.

In respect of amendment 32, moved by my colleague Carolyn Thomas—Carolyn, thank you for laying this, and I can say that I'm fully supportive of this amendment. You've laid it out in detail, but this amendment provides that the OEGW exercises its discretion to include in its annual report a statement about whether the sums allocated to it have been sufficient to enable it to perform its functions. I think this is crucial. It must submit that report to Welsh Ministers. This is in addition, of course, to the requirement that already existed for all annual reports to be laid before the Senedd. This amendment is good and appropriate. It does not compromise the OEGW’s independence, the importance of which I have been repeatedly clear on, and I think committee members have as well. But it also effectively makes clear that the OEGW has the necessary discretion to make a statement about sufficiency of funding and the consequences of including such a statement in their annual report. So, I'm very happy to support this amendment, Carolyn.

If I can turn to the issue of websites—and can I assure you, it's not because I'm against websites—it just isn't necessary to legislate for the OEGW to establish and maintain a website. Its approach to outwards communications is going to be a matter for its own independent judgment in line with the requirements of the Bill, allowing it to make its decisions on operational matters. Can I say that I fully expect, unless technology moves on massively over the next few months, that the OEGW will, indeed, want to have a website as part of that outward facing—? But that's a matter for them, in the same way as we would also expect that they'll want to have a logo, branding, an office space, et cetera, et cetera, all of which are matters that just don't require express provision in this piece of legislation. So, that's why I'm not supporting it—it's not because I don't like websites, honestly.

Amendment 48—Delyth, thank you for this, and we did discuss this previously as well. The OEGW will have a substantive role in assessing and advising on changes to environmental law in Wales. This is in direct support of the thing we're proud of, the well-being of future generations Act’s aim of improving social, economic, environmental and cultural well-being. So, recognising the OEGW as a public body within that Act ensures its actions align with sustainable development and it helps avoid the situation we were in previously with siloed decision making. So, excluding the OEGW would undermine the integrated governance approach envisaged by the Bill. It could weaken accountability, risk fragmentation of approach and separate the environmental governance framework from that wider Welsh policy framework.

Now, the environmental governance framework cannot operate in isolation. This combined framework also strengthens, by the way, the collaboration with other public bodies, and it supports OEGW’s progressive, escalatory enforcement approach. If we left OEGW out, it would erode that holistic, accountable approach to well-being across Welsh public services. Now, Delyth will note that we support changing the general purpose of the OEGW to be more environmentally focused, which includes removing reference to the environmental objective in provision about the OEGW’s general purpose. So, in that context, it's even more essential that the connection between the work of the OEGW and the well-being of future generations Act is preserved through this provision. And I know some people, just finally, have suggested that there is some similarity here with other public bodies, including things like the public services ombudsman, but we would say that's missing the point. It's misguided. Good environmental governance is actually central to achieving the well-being of future generations Act's objectives. The framework developed through this Bill recognises and complements it. If we excluded it, it would have that detrimental impact I've outlined. So, it's for these reasons that I won't support this amendment.

Janet Finch-Saunders to respond.

Diolch, Llywydd, and thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for giving way on that amendment. And also we will be supporting you, Delyth, on the one that you put forward. Diolch.

Yes, 33. Any opposition? No. 

Amendment 25. Is it being moved, Janet Finch-Saunders? 

Move.

Amendment 26. Is it being moved, Janet Finch-Saunders? 

Move.

Yes, it is. 

Is it being moved, 32? 

Yes.

I'm grateful to the Deputy First Minister and his team for their assistance and support in looking at how this could work. The purpose of this amendment is to provide a more focused general purpose for the OEGW. The amendment maintains symmetry with the environmental objective that's set out in section 1 of the Bill, which includes reference to the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, by referencing the attainment of a high level of environmental protection and an improvement of the environment, whilst emphasising the OEGW’s role in ensuring compliance with, and effectiveness, implementation and application of, environmental law.

I'm also grateful for their support looking at, after Stage 2, how what I put forward in amendment 47 might work. That is consequential to the previous amendment 36. It reflects that the OEGW must set out in its strategy how it intends to comply with its duty to exercise its functions for the general purpose set out in section 10(a), and not the 'environmental objective', as previously drafted. Diolch.

Diolch, Llywydd. First of all, if I can turn to amendment 36 and the consequential amendment 47, the Bill as introduced and as amended at Stage 2 aligns the OEGW's general purpose with the environmental objective set out in section 1 of the Bill, which includes, amongst other things, a reference to the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. But we did hear at the earlier stages, and indeed from the ENGOs as well, concerns that this approach is not as focused as it could be on the environment. So, having listened to these concerns, I am really pleased that, Delyth, we’ve been able to work together effectively to develop this appropriate amendment that addresses those concerns, whilst also maintaining that necessary clear focus on a high level of environmental protection and improvement of the environment. So, in this way, this amendment maintains the symmetry with the environmental objective, but places focus on the role the OEGW will have in supporting the environment through its oversight of environmental law. So, on that basis, I’m very pleased to support this amendment and encourage other Members to do so, and the consequential amendment as well.

Rhys, I feel really bad now, but I am going to explain why I don’t think these amendments are appropriate. These were indeed the amendments, or similar, that were tabled and rejected at Stage 2. It’s because it would be inappropriate for this provision to be added to the OEGW's general purpose. Although we’re supportive of the Aarhus convention, it’s a question of how it fits within this legislation.

The Aarhus convention, as we all know, is an international treaty ratified by the UK Government. It sets out broad principles rather than precise statutory duties. If we required the OEGW to exercise its functions in accordance with the Aarhus convention, it could open the door for some quite substantial interpretation disputes and, indeed, potential challenges. The Bill already sets out effective ways to ensure citizens are empowered to engage with and be consulted by the OEGW.

Furthermore, the OEGW's remit is to oversee environmental law, which in this context means devolved provisions relating to the environment. Now, Aarhus obligations often require systemic measures such as access to courts, which are beyond the OEGW's powers and resources. So, if we impose this duty it would lead to, quite frankly, unrealistic expectations of what the OEGW could and should do.

To add to this, monitoring compliance with Aarhus is already handled at a UK level and by the UNECE compliance committee. Whilst the OEGW will oversee domestic environmental law, which reflects the Aarhus convention, it should not be expected to, nor indeed could it, be an oversight body for UK-wide obligations, because this oversight already exists. So, it’s not out of any lack of sympathy or obligation towards our obligations on the Aarhus convention; it just doesn’t fit within the OEGW's role within this devolved context. But that's already provided for. I hope that explains it.

Thank you. I move amendment 27 in my name. Amendment 27 ensures there must be engagement with counterpart environmental governance bodies in relation to matters connected to its functions that fall outside devolved provision. This will ensure that there is more effective management. Amendments 28 and 29 add the Drinking Water Inspectorate and the Water Services Regulation Authority to ensure that there is no overlap with their functions and the functions of the OEGW. 

Joyce Watson.

Diolch, Llywydd. I am going to move the amendment in my name. It requires the Office of Environmental Governance Wales to set out its strategy on how it will exercise its function in a way that avoids overlap with the functions of the UK Government on climate change. Schedule 2 to the Bill includes provision for the content and procedural requirements of the strategy that the OEGW is required to prepare and publish under section 11. The strategy will outline how the OEGW will fulfil its statutory duties without overlapping with the roles of other oversight bodies. The amendment adds the UK Committee on Climate Change to the list of bodies in relation to which the OEGW strategy must set out how it will avoid overlapping functions.

I'd like to thank the Deputy First Minister for listening to stakeholders after Stage 2, and for working with us to develop a suitable amendment to ensure that the Bill expressly requires the OEGW to avoid overlap with the UK CCC specifically, given the potential overlap in functions, albeit quite limited. 

Diolch, Llywydd. If I can turn, first of all, to amendment 27 in the name of Janet Finch-Saunders, this is, again, similar to an amendment that was tabled, debated and then rejected at Stage 2, but I'll explain why—our reasoning. The OEGW can rely on its supplementary powers to enter into any agreements with relevant bodies that it considers necessary, such as investigations into areas of common concern that apply in relation to Wales. Putting an express requirement of this nature within the Bill will likely, just to be clear, require the consent of UK Ministers. Now, this has sometimes happened, but it’s in no way guaranteed. In that respect, I do not consider it necessary or desirable to seek consent for a provision that wouldn’t improve the effectiveness of the OEGW, and could, indeed, impact, just to be clear, the Bill’s timely passage through this Senedd, as we sit in deliberation here at this time. 

The interim environmental protection assessor for Wales, the interim body, already has a memorandum of understanding with the Office for Environmental Protection and Environmental Standards Scotland, the England and Scotland counterparts, and a very good working relationship. This is really effective, and the IEPAW isn't even yet a statutory body, so it just shows why this provision isn't actually needed as well. 

If I turn to amendment 34 in the name of Joyce Watson, Joyce, my thanks for moving this, but also for the way this has been brought forward collaboratively with the ENGOs and stakeholders, and working with my officials. It's after that listening to ENGOs and committee members further on the matter after Stage 2 that we believe that adding the UK Climate Change Committee to the list in paragraph 1(1)(e) of Schedule 2 would provide greater clarity, and ensure that the OEGW will be required to set out how it will avoid what we believe, by the way, will be limited overlaps—how it will avoid those overlaps between the OEGW and the UK CCC. So, we'll be supporting that amendment, and I would urge Members to do so. 

If I can turn to amendments 28 and 29 in Janet's name, in response to those amendments we believe there is limited overlap, to be frank, between the functions of the OEGW, the Drinking Water Inspectorate and the Office of Water Services. However, I have previously agreed with this principle of requiring the OEGW to articulate in its strategy how it intends to exercise its functions in a way that does not overlap with the functions of any organisation, not just those listed specifically. This is reflected in paragraph 1(1)(e)(vi) of Schedule 2, which we inserted during Stage 2 proceedings in response to some of these discussions. This gives sufficient scope and clarity, and requires the OEGW to articulate in its strategy how it will seek to avoid overlap with public authorities, but based on its own independent expertise and its independent professional judgment, which is something that committee members stressed they wanted repeatedly.

If I turn to amendment 30 in Janet's name, I don’t consider that further amendment to the Bill in this way is needed or appropriate. This approach has not been taken in other similar Acts, and the extent to which the OEGW consults the public on its strategy is a matter for the OEGW as an independent body, albeit guided by the same public law principles applying to all public bodies when exercising their functions.

Janet Finch-Saunders to respond.

Diolch, Cabinet Secretary, and thank you for those explanations. I, therefore, am going to withdraw 27, 28, 29 and 30.

Okay, so, 27 is the main amendment. It's not being pressed to a vote, unless anybody wishes to do so. I see nobody wanting to do that, so consider it not voted upon.

Thirty-four. Is it being moved?

Move.

Yes, it is.

Amendment 28, I think, isn't being moved by Janet Finch Saunders—no?

Sorry. What number?

Twenty eight.

No, that's withdrawn.

It's not being moved.

Amendment 29, is that being moved, Janet Finch-Saunders? I think you said 'no'.

It's withdrawn, and 30 is withdrawn.

And 30 is also not being moved.

This would require a public authority, including Welsh Ministers, to respond to a report that is issued by the OEGW using its section 12 monitoring powers. These reports will cover matters relating to the compliance, application and implementation of environmental law. The purpose of the amendment would be to increase transparency and accountability. After the long delay that we saw before passing this Bill, the OEGW, of course, will have its work cut out for it, with plenty of environmental laws to get to grips with. While the design of the OEGW’s monitoring and compliance functions is, of course, bespoke for Wales, there are similarities with section 29 of the UK Environment Act 2021, under which the Office for Environmental Protection can publish reports on the implementation of environmental law.

In many cases, these have dealt with highly complicated technical matters of interpretation of environmental laws, such as the water framework directive. The UK Government’s response to these reports, which it is compelled to make, has been an important element of the accountability cycle there, and visibly informed the next steps that the OEP has chosen to take when it comes to the use of its other powers. Without the benefit of knowing what the public authority thinks of its recommendations, the OEGW would be at a significant disadvantage, as it may well not have sufficient information to deploy its compliance or improvement functions with confidence and ensure their effective and proportionate use.

My fear is that the current approach in this Bill could disadvantage public authorities as they would not get the opportunity to set the record straight on any potential misunderstandings, or to add useful evidence to inform the OEGW’s next steps. At worst, the lack of a specific duty to respond to the OEGW’s recommendations and reports under section 12 could result in a regulatory stalemate. At best, it could lead to confusion, inefficiencies and missed opportunities. I hope that it will get some support, at least for the principle of it.