Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru

Good afternoon and welcome to this afternoon’s Plenary meeting. The first item this afternoon will be questions to the First Minister, and the first question is from Jenny Rathbone. 

We recognise the difficulties women face in accessing specialist services for health conditions, particularly surgery for endometriosis. Officials are working with the women’s health network and the gynaecology implementation network to strengthen secondary care, and with the joint commissioning committee to explore establishing specialist commissioned services for tertiary care.

Thank you very much. That is welcome news, because, only last week, I spoke to a women who had to shell out £5,000 in order to get an MRI laparoscopy, rather than wait for three years in constant pain. And I’ve had that conversation so many times with women, and I’m sure I’ll have a lot more on the endo March on Sunday fortnight.

Both Cardiff and the Vale and Swansea bay do take women from outside the area, but, unlike in England, they don’t get properly reimbursed for it. So, the news that there is going to be a further look at commissioning specialist services, including tertiary services, is very good, because the women’s health plan is somewhat silent on improving access to surgery to remove the invasive endometritis from other organs outside the womb. Are you able to put a timeline at all on how we can ensure that all women in Wales are able to get that surgical intervention that some women sadly need?

Thank you very much. You know, I know, more than many people here, that endometriosis affects one in 10 women, which was a shocking statistic for me to find out. It’s a really debilitating condition. It really impacts on women’s quality of life. And March, of course, is Endometriosis Awareness Month. So, thank you for your question and for raising this issue.

The women’s health plan has a specific section that relates to endometriosis, and that includes an action to sustainably fund and deliver a model for tertiary care provision in Wales for endometriosis. Now, this is a medium-term approach within the action plan, which means there’s a timescale from three to five years. You can’t switch these things on overnight; it takes a while to train up clinicians to make sure that they have the skills that they need.

First Minister, according to research published by Endometriosis UK, women in Wales wait the longest of all UK nations for diagnosis, on average around 10 years, which is now almost a year more than it was before 2020. I recognise, First Minister, that you are fully aware of the condition, and that you have, as health Minister, committed to a £1 million per annum investment to improve women’s health services. However, there are over 1.5 million women in Wales, and this condition is expected to affect about 150,000 of them—as you mentioned, one in 10. It is recognised that there is still a demonstrable lack of understanding of the condition amongst a considerable number of health professionals, and this ultimately results in significant delays in diagnosis and poor management of symptoms. With this in mind, First Minister, what action is the Welsh Government taking to improve knowledge of endometriosis among health professionals, and what steps are you taking to help reduce diagnosis waiting times? Thank you.

Thanks very much, Joel. I would recommend to people to have a look at the brilliant Endometriosis Cymru website. It’s a really good website and gives you lots and lots of details on there. I learnt lots on there—the pouch of Douglas; never heard of the pouch of Douglas—and there are lots and lots of details about how the body works, and the systems, and how people are dealing with it. And you’ll be aware that we have set out an extra £3 million to set up, within the women’s health plan, the women’s health hubs. So, that, I hope, will be helpful.

But, also, I think it’s probably worth people really clocking the fact that waits over two years in gynaecology have reduced by 81 per cent. So, it is important that people recognise that things are improving. This is thanks to the money that’s been invested. This is thanks to improved pathways. And we are, of course, committed to reducing this even further. We've got the specialist endometriosis nurses—they've been in post for about three years. You asked specifically about education and training—an action within the health plan is to provide education and training to all healthcare practitioners on endometriosis as a chronic condition. That includes multiprofessional care, including access to adequate mental health support.

I applaud Jenny's work in championing this issue. Endometriosis is one of those conditions that affects a frightening amount of women—possibly one in every 10—but, so often, so infuriatingly often, women get misdiagnosed, dismissed, and their symptoms are downplayed. Women should be believed when it comes to their own bodies. Now, I welcome the women's health plan, which, though overdue, could empower so many women. Now, last year, my motion in the Senedd was passed, which called for that plan to tackle the normalisation of women's pain in healthcare, the fact that so many of us are told, 'This might hurt', the fact our pain is either treated as normal or ignored. How many women go through unnecessary pain for years because of this? So, could you give an update, please, on how that plan is incorporating the need to ensure women's pain is not treated as normal, as an unfortunate fact of life, but is instead taken seriously every time, and that women, when they complain, are believed?

Thanks very much. I think you're quite right, and that's why we were really keen to drive forward with that women's health plan. We did take a while to develop it because we wanted to do it with the clinicians, with the people who need to deliver it—we wanted their expertise to contribute to it. And it is about changing a culture—it's about changing a culture throughout the NHS; this is not something you can switch on overnight. It's also very difficult to know what's normal—you don't know if your pain threshold is that different from somebody else's. But it is clear that many women, over the years, have not been taken seriously in terms of their pain, and that's why, again—. Have a look at the website, because it's really comprehensive, and goes through some of these things, just to say, 'Well, this is what normal feels like', and, 'This is when you need to make sure that you call out for support'. So, pain is something that people need to take seriously. We have a lot of pain support, but I think it's really important that people know where to go to get that support, but that element of mental health support is also crucial, because living in chronic pain is not a great thing.

Our Transforming Towns programme is helping to revitalise town and city centres across Wales, including in Islwyn. We are working with Caerphilly County Borough Council to support the development of a placemaking plan for Blackwood town centre to help shape future interventions and support.

Thank you, First Minister. First Minister, the Newbridge Memo started its centenary celebrations this month. The memorial hall in Newbridge has stood as a cultural hub at the heart of the town for a century, and its ability to exist is aided by taxpayer money, funding the location of even my Senedd constituency office there, and the local library being housed there, which has recently been saved from potential closure. And in Blackwood, as you've mentioned, one of the great Gwent Valleys towns, on Thursday, the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership will be visiting the Blackwood Miners' Institute. Thanks to grant funding by the Arts Council of Wales, the institute has been safeguarded for now. Town centres across Gwent have seen the emergence of vacant, underutilised sites and the potential threat to the financial future of iconic public facilities, after 14 long years of disinvestment. First Minister, working with Caerphilly county borough, how will the Welsh Government's town-centre regeneration funding be spent in Islwyn, and how can the Welsh Government ensure that local town centres are safeguarded for the future?

Diolch yn fawr iawn. Thank you for your constant enthusiasm for supporting the arts and heritage. I was very pleased to have recently visited the Blackwood Miners' Institute. I think they were hosting an adult pantomime that evening, which was attracting quite a lot of attention within the town.

I think it's really important to recognise that historical buildings play an important role in acknowledging a town's history and identity. I think that the Blackwood Miners' Institute is an integral part of the placemaking plan that is currently being developed by Caerphilly County Borough Council. You referred to Jack Sargeant, and I'm really pleased that he's going to have the opportunity to go and visit what is a unique centre. And, of course, he was able to secure an extra £3.6 million for the resilience fund, and around £210,000 of that went to supporting Blackwood Miners' Institute. So, thank you, Jack, for your enthusiasm to support that project.

Now, local authorities need to prioritise where they wish to intervene and what they want to bring forward, in terms of support, to the Welsh Government. And you'll be aware that funding was provided some years ago to support the Newbridge memorial hall, but my understanding is that they haven't brought any suggestion forward in relation to Transforming Towns in relation to the memorial hall at this point.

I welcome what you’ve said in regard to Islwyn, but town centres, as you may be aware, First Minister, have been suffering from very high rates of anti-social behaviour in Islwyn. I welcome, of course, the excellent work that Gwent Police have actually done in this regard, increasing the number of controls in the area, and so forth, in Blackwood in particular, and I want to thank them for their support. But, however, as part of Caerphilly council’s recent budget, they have announced plans to cut the invaluable safety warden service, which sees seven full-time posts removed. Blackwood’s independent councillor has branded this decision as dangerous and disappointing, and I have to agree with him, especially considering the rise in anti-social behaviour that we’ve been seeing. It’s imperative that our town centres are safe and secure for the public. What discussions have you had with Caerphilly council about this worrying rise in anti-social behaviour in Blackwood, and what impact will the loss of the safety warden service have there? Diolch.

Thanks very much. As part of the listening exercise that I did over the summer, certainly something that came back was that we need to revamp our city centres. I'm really pleased that, through the Transforming Towns partnership programme, we have allocated £125 million of grants and loan funding to local authorities between 2022 and 2025, and that is making a major difference to towns like Blackwood and Caerphilly. One of the things that was really heartening for me, because there has been a bit of negative attention in relation to young people in Blackwood, and one of the great things that I saw was a whole load of young people being trained right in the middle of Blackwood with money that had been allocated by the Welsh Government. That's how you make sure that you stop that kind of anti-social behaviour. You give people a purpose, you give them meaning, you train them up for life, and that's what was really heartening for me to see in Blackwood. And let me tell you that, in relation to the council, we have just increased funding going to local authorities across the whole of Wales, which will help them with things like this, and, of course, your party, along with Plaid Cymru, voted against that money going to them.

Questions now from the party leaders. The eader of the Welsh Conservatives, Darren Millar. 

First Minister, on Saturday, we marked International Women’s Day, a day to celebrate the achievements, rights and potential of women and girls here in Wales, across the UK and around the world. So, can you tell us, today, First Minister, in order that people across Wales can appreciate and understand what the Welsh Government was celebrating over the weekend, what’s your definition of a 'woman'? [Interruption.]

Oh, really? Is that right? Is that right, Darren? On the day that we want to celebrate women, you want to start a culture war. That is not something that I'm engaging with—it is not something I'm engaging with. I'll tell you what I did on International Women's Day, I was in the embassy in Paris working alongside the Welsh ambassador. She's not the Welsh ambassador—she's the British ambassador, but she happens to be Welsh and she's flying the flag for Wales in the embassy. She hosted an event to celebrate International Women's Day, and it was a real pleasure to be there, to tell her what we're doing in relation to women and championing women's rights in Wales, and to make sure that she's aware of things like the fact that we now have a women’s health plan that is being driven forward, that we will be getting things like women’s health hubs in every part of Wales. It was also an opportunity for me to remind them of the fact that Jemima Nicholas actually took on the might of the French empire in the shape of Napoleon when they tried to invade Fishguard. It was quite pleasing to do that in front of a French audience, I must say.

I’m sorry, First Minister, you chose deliberately not to answer the question. It doesn’t surprise me that you didn’t answer the question, because my colleague Laura Anne Jones tabled a similar one many months ago and still hasn’t received an answer, in spite of the fact that you’re supposed to answer these questions within 10 days.

Now, let me help you by giving you the definition that I use of a woman. To me, a woman is an adult human female. I’ll repeat that: adult human female. 

I need to hear the leader of the Conservatives in his question.

Now, it is important that everybody understands that a woman is an adult human female so that we can protect women’s rights and ensure that women here in Wales flourish. Now, one area where we need some action from the Welsh Government is in women’s sports. We need to encourage more young women in particular to participate in sport, but we know that males who have been through puberty have significant physical advantages over females. This is particularly in relation to physically demanding sports. Now, can I ask you—? Obviously, physically demanding sports have traditionally been segregated and separated on the basis of sex to ensure that they are fair. So, will you commit today to ensuring that all Welsh sporting bodies in receipt of Government funds should be required to commit to sex-based categories, so that women are not required to compete against biological males and to ensure fair competition?

Honestly, did you not learn anything from why you lost the last general election? I mean, honestly, what people care about is the economy, they care about the NHS, they care about housing, they care about education, they care about connecting communities. Those are all the things that I am absolutely focused on, and I am not playing games with your culture wars, because actually the people of Wales are not interested in that. They are interested in us getting on with the job and delivering for them.

You may not care about these things, but I care about women and their rights here in Wales and I will continue to speak up and defend them. I’m a pro-women’s rights potential First Minister, that’s what I am, and I would encourage you to be likewise.

Let me turn to another area where we also need some action: women’s safety. We know that violence against women and girls has been soaring since the pandemic, and we know that most of the perpetrators are male. So, do you agree with me, First Minister, that the Welsh Government has a duty to ensure that all women in Wales should have access to safe single-sex spaces, including public toilets, leisure centre changing rooms, women’s refuges and hospital wards?

Look, I think it’s really important that we focus on the things that women really care about, right? What they care about is feeling safe, is making sure that they have their rights, that their children are able to flourish, and that’s why this is a Government that, for years, has been focused on the things that really matter to women. The fact that we’ve given huge increases in childcare, for example, which you voted against, and you voted against, by the way—. It’s really important for us to recognise that those are the things that people care about. This afternoon, there will be a debate about International Women’s Day, and what’s good about this is actually we have got to a point—[Interruption.] We have got to a—

Allow the First Minister to answer the question with some respect, please.

What we're interested in is making sure that we champion the cause of women, as we have done. And what's great about today, and I don't know why you're trying to create these divisions, is that actually we've all, cross-party, agreed on things like safety, on issues like making sure we fight against abuse and intimidation. So, why don't we look for the areas where we actually want to co-operate, where we want to work together, and on the things that really matter to the vast majority of women in this country?

The leader of Plaid Cymru, Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Thank you, Llywydd. First of all, I want to pay tribute to the young carers who are here in the Senedd today emphasising the value of care and the importance of caring for the carers. 

A week ago, the First Minister ended up talking more about me and Plaid Cymru than about her own budget that had just passed. I'm grateful to her for publicising the high bar that Plaid Cymru is setting for Wales. Now, the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Welsh Language has got in on the act too. He promised that austerity was over under Labour, clearly without being sent the memo saying that, within hours, the Labour Government at Westminster would announce sweeping cuts to welfare, taking away a lifeline for some of the most vulnerable people. Now, he previously promised, I quote,

'a Labour government with its hands on those levers that allow you to use macroeconomic policy and the social security system for the benefit of those people who need it most.'

Now it's not quite working out, is it? And remember, this is something that directly affects Welsh Government and the use of its budget. The First Minister can't hide on this one. Will she muster the courage to tell Keir Starmer that enough is enough, or is she refusing to give a voice to the voiceless at a time when they need it most?

Honestly, I just don't know why you didn't stick to plan A and go to Westminster, because every week you come in here and you ask me questions that are relevant to the Westminster Government. I will continue to give you lessons week after week on how devolution works. It works because I am responsible for certain areas and they're responsible for others. I don't know why you keep asking me about areas over which I don't have responsibility.  

I fail to understand how a Welsh First Minister cannot see the relevance to Wales of decisions taken by a UK Government of the same colour as hers on an issue as fundamental as the welfare state. As I said, this is something that directly impacts on Wales. If UK Government takes away support for some of the most vulnerable people in Wales, it is up to her budget to step in to make up for that. Now it's always—it's always—defend, defend, defend, isn't it? You're defending the indefensible week after week, from the winter fuel allowance to the two-child cap, 1950s women, inheritance tax and now welfare cuts. Wales wants a First Minister that stands up for the people of Wales. 

Now, also last week, the United Nations concluded that the UK have a broken social security system. It called for an end to the two-child limit, benefit cap, sanction regimes and so on—

I need the question—. I've had to ask for every single contribution to be heard in a degree of silence, both for the leader of the Conservatives, the First Minister and now the leader of Plaid Cymru. I know that backbenchers are wannabe First Ministers and leaders of their parties, but I really don't want you to be taking part as vocally as you all are at this moment, and some of you in particular—looking at you, Alun Davies. [Laughter.] Rhun ap Iorwerth. 

Diolch, Llywydd. I also understand their frustration at the hole they find themselves being sucked into by Labour in UK Government. The UN said that the UK Government should ensure that benefits levels were reviewed to make sure that people have enough to get by, but the UN's report also—and again this is directly relevant to the First Minister—called on the devolved Governments of the UK to assess the impact of welfare reforms. I say that that assessment must, yes, include reforms already introduced, but also those being proposed. So, as well as asking for confirmation that she will commission that assessment, I ask the First Minister again: does she support cuts to welfare in order to save money, yes or no?

You talked to me about relevance; I'll talk to you about relevance. It's relevant to ask why, last week, when there was an opportunity to vote for services in Wales—. You're so keen to protect the public in Wales this week, but, last week, you voted against money going into those services. Now, we spend a huge amount of money in Wales on trying to support people living in poverty—about £5 billion over the past few years—but last week we were able to offer even more money: £400 million extra, for example, to support the NHS. That is what people want us to prioritise. That's what we prioritise, and you, once again, voted against. Once again, if you want to ask questions that are relevant to Westminster, you should have gone to Westminster. That's the place for accountability for the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, and I am more than happy to send you a copy of the Government of Wales Act and maybe he'll learn something. 

My guess is—[Inaudible.]—Baroness Eluned Morgan already has a seat at Westminster and maybe she's hankering for spending more time there. But I thank her once again today for highlighting the fact that Plaid Cymru did vote against her flawed budget last week. The First Minister's logic suggests that Labour MPs who previously voted against whole UK budgets somehow said Wales should get no money at all. Let's be serious about this: it was a flawed budget and we made it clear. The First Minister is torn, I know, between party loyalty, stopping her from holding the UK Prime Minister to account, as we need a Welsh First Minister to do. Her criticism, you know, of 14 years of Tory austerity doesn't quite have the same ring, given that she refuses to criticise her own party for its hostile welfare environment. And of course, she has no interest in devolving welfare, which would allow her to take a different path should she want to, and Plaid Cymru says, 'Let's take those levers into our own hands', starting with the administration of welfare so we can make decisions that work for communities in Wales. Now, the First Minister's even broken her own promise:

'The first thing I would do as First Minister would be to establish a permanent Poverty and Inequality Commission to help set a long-term direction and suggest practical solutions for tackling poverty in Wales.'

That's the promise she made when standing for the leadership of the Labour Party in Wales the first time around. It hasn't happened. Will it, or what's changed?

For several years, your party—. In the years of austerity, you voted to support a budget. This year— this year—when you had an extra £1.6 billion on the table, you voted with the Tories—let's be clear; with the Tories—and had that got through and you hadn't bottled it—. And you were counting on the support of somebody else to do your work for you. This is not leadership. This is not leadership. What leadership is is getting on with the job. Plaid Cymru is only interested in structures and commissions. I'm interested in getting on with the job and delivering. My whole Government is focused on delivering on the bread-and-butter issues that people care about, that we got extra money for last week and that you voted against.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. I understand that you have given your permission for questions 3 and 5 to be grouped. Now, the Global Centre of Rail Excellence is a development supported with a commitment of £50 million-worth of Welsh Government funding and £20 million of UK Government funding, and GCRE is currently in the process of securing private investment for capital construction of the facility and is in a detailed dialogue with a potential funder.

Thank you for that answer, First Minister. The GCRE development is a Welsh Government-led success story in the making. It's a good example of what an active Government can do, leading on place-based economic development whilst working with local partners. It has the potential not only to be a unique centre across Europe for testing and research in the rail industry, but also, and importantly, to create large numbers of well-paid jobs. I want GCRE to be a success as soon as possible, but I'm interested, First Minister, in the timescale for significant further work to be undertaken to deliver on that economic development and transport sector potential, and I note what you said about ongoing investor proposals. Can you tell us, First Minister, whether you expect further significant physical work to take place at the GCRE development site in the next 12 months, or, if you're not able to commit to that, can you confirm when and how the Senedd will be kept informed on progress on what should be a success story for Wales?

Diolch yn fawr iawn and thank you, Vaughan, for your enthusiasm and commitment to this programme. We are committed to delivering the GCRE through the programme for government. Now, you'll be aware that there have been many issues that have hampered securing private sector investment to date that have been completely beyond the control of the Welsh Government and GCRE, which launched in early 2023 in, of course, what was one of the most challenging of investment environments.

Now, the funding options remaining still focus firmly on a private sector solution. We are working through contingency plans, which will include, though, both private and public funding sources, just to make sure everything is covered. I'm sure you will understand that there are commercial sensitivities around such deals. I'm very mindful not to prejudice any ongoing negotiations. All of the options must, though, secure funding for work to start this Senedd term, so we do hope that things will move quickly. I will, of course, provide updates once those commercial sensitivities are over.

Hefin David.

I can assure you, Llywydd, there was no collusion in the choice of these questions today, but I've been to visit the Global Centre of Rail Excellence, I've had a tour of the site, and it's got huge potential, not only as a world-class and one of the few rail testing centres in Europe, but also as a technology park and with a renewable energy area too. I've worked with and I'm looking for potential partner investors, in addition to those who are currently involved, and I would ask the Welsh Government whether they can do the same. Can they use their resources to use those contacts that they've got to find those additional supportive investors in the areas that I've just mentioned? Also, the spring statement is coming up in Westminster on 26 March, and I hate to sound like Rhun ap Iorwerth, but it would be helpful for the Government to speak with the UK Government to see what further support can be given as further investment and support for this project, which could be employing, initially, 1,100 people, but more as that park develops.

Thanks very much. I think it's really exciting. GCRE could be a site for world-class rail and mobility research testing and showcasing, and it would become the UK's first ever net-zero in-operation railway, supporting innovations that are needed to decarbonise both the UK and the European railways. A recent report highlighted that GCRE was a very-high-value-for-money project, with, as you suggest, over 1,000 jobs, which is not insignificant, and a potential £300 million uplift for the local economy. So, this is really serious. 

What we do know is that strong commercial demand exists for a purpose-built facility for European rail innovations. Already, around 200 companies have indicated their desire to use this facility. You're quite right, we need to continue discussing with the UK Government, but we've already put a substantial amount of funding in. I do think it's time now for the private sector to come in and play their part, but, of course, we want local people to benefit from those opportunities as well.

First Minister, these sorts of projects have the potential to provide large benefits to both the local economy and the economy of Wales. As such, they have to be handled well. It's clear, though, that this project is now facing delays, and the Government continues to look for new sources of private funding. We've been talking about investment for years, and I think the majority of people believed there were investors lined up. As far as I can see, not a single train operator is currently putting money into this project, which is concerning, considering they have much to gain should this be a success. I would question whether or not they consider this project is worth it for them. So, can you, First Minister, outline what talks you are having or have had with the train operators regarding funding for this rail scheme?

Well, look, there are very advanced discussions going on at the moment with potential investors, so I really don't want to go into the detail of that, because of the sensitivities around it, but what I can tell you is that this lies just 15 miles away from the Tata steelworks in Port Talbot, and I think that will be able to help with the transition for some of the workers there. Some of the skills are, obviously, clearly transferable. But I think it is important for us to recognise that a process of due diligence has begun in relation to a potential investor, but I never count any chickens until they're hatched.

One of the reasons for locating the centre in Onllwyn, of course, is the ability to connect it with the existing Dulais valley freight line, which will allow rolling stock and other test equipment to be transported directly to the centre by rail. One of the things that it won't be possible at the moment to transport by rail, of course, will be the workforce, because that freight line, like others in the region, including the Amman valley in my own constituency, are currently closed to passenger services. So, as part of the wider rail renaissance that this global centre will undoubtedly represent, does the Government see scope and potential for reopening passenger services in the western Valleys, in parallel with this development, as has been done so successfully in the eastern Valleys in the former coalfield?

Well, thanks very much. You're quite right, I think there is a significant rail renaissance going on; with the fact that we've invested £800 million partly in rolling stock, which means that about 85 per cent of the passengers who travel on Transport for Wales today are travelling on brand-new trains, there is a renaissance when it comes to rail. And there's also recognition, for the first time in a long time, from UK Government that Wales has been shortchanged when it comes to structural investment. You'll be aware that, when it comes to that rail infrastructure investment, it is the responsibility of UK Government. We are preparing a long list of projects that we're interested in seeing investment in, by them, and those conversations are ongoing. There is a priority list, I'm not sure if this is on that list, but I'll go and check that out.

First Minister, it is important that we do highlight the value of the Global Centre of Rail Excellence, which will bring the Welsh economy many benefits when it does, indeed, get completed. We just need to hope that it doesn't take as long to complete as other major infrastructure projects passing through the Neath constituency, such as the Heads of the Valleys A465 upgrade. The project is a good example of collaborative working across the English-Welsh border and it's great to see that the then Conservative UK Government, as well as the Cardiff Labour Government here, were working together to deliver for Wales—something that doesn't quite seem to be the case now, anyway.

But, First Minister, if this project is to truly benefit local people, it is essential that there are high-quality skilled employment opportunities for those who are living around and on the site. So, what discussions are being had with higher education colleges to ensure that students are able to access courses and training that would qualify them to be employed at the Global Centre of Rail Excellence when it does indeed commence operation?

Thank you very much. I can't believe somebody from the Conservative Party is telling me about how bad infrastructure projects are in Wales, after the mess you made of things like the high speed 2 line. It's quite, quite extraordinary. But there we go.

What I can tell you is that, in relation to GCRE, of course there will be a package of measures where we will have to work with local colleges to make sure that the skills are available. But as I say, I think there are opportunities to transfer some of the skills from some of the workers who've lost their positions in Tata into this facility.

Good afternoon, First Minister. If you've never visited the site at GCRE, it is quite an incredible place. Imagine a facility covering nearly 1,000 football pitches in size, built to test the speeds of a train. It is absolutely of global significance and it's one of its kind on the international stage. But for me, it's the value it brings to the local community in places like Ystradgynlais, which I represent. Ystradgynlais has struggled with job losses from the town, like the Tick Tock factory and Dewhirst, as well, yet the community is actually really resilient and healthy and vibrant. Lloyds Bank left the town in 2023, leaving no bank in the biggest town in Brecon and Radnorshire, despite Lloyds Bank making a mere £7.5 billion in profit that year.

The Welsh Liberal Democrats recently secured a banking hub for the town, which will help, but I'd like to ask the Welsh Government what else you can do to ensure that there are really good links with the economic development of the GCRE and towns and communities around Ystradgynlais. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Well, thanks very much. Look, we desperately need jobs in that part of the world, because you're quite right, we have seen an area that used to be very, very vibrant. And the Tick Tock factory, I remember when I was first elected, seeing literally hundreds of people coming out of that factory—hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people. And, of course, all of that has been diminished, so we do need something transformational and I think this could be the ticket to that transformation, and it will be imperative that local communities get to benefit from that and get to work on and with the organisations that are there to develop it.

Our approach to the treatment and support of women affected by breast cancer is set out in the quality statement for cancer, which includes planning requirements for NHS organisations, in line with the national optimal pathways for primary and secondary breast cancer.

I'm sure you'll remember the late Tassia Haines, a constituent of mine who died far too young from secondary breast cancer just over a year ago. Tassia’s experiences drove her to campaign for evidence-based interventions to better support women living with metastatic breast cancer, and we debated her petition here in the Senedd. It received more than 14,000 signatures, and I think you met with her when you were health Secretary. One of the things that Tassia called for was better data, to give a clearer picture of the disease in Wales. 

The first reports of the national audits for primary and metastatic breast cancer were published last September, but the reports were unable to deliver a comprehensive picture of primary and metastatic breast cancer in Wales due to incomplete data. So, what steps have the Welsh Government taken to ensure that health boards collect this crucial breast cancer data? And when will Wales start providing data to the audit quarterly data dashboard, so that patients can know the state of breast cancer services in their region? How are you supporting health boards to implement also the clinical recommendations made in the reports, to ensure patients are getting the breast cancer treatment and support that they need?

Diolch yn fawr. You’re quite right that Tassia Haines was one of the most inspirational women I’ve ever met. She was dying and she would not let go of this issue. She was absolutely all over the detail of what needed to be done and she did change the Welsh Government and the NHS in Wales, and I want to pay tribute to her. Her legacy lives on today, certainly in terms of the support for metastatic breast cancer nurse specialists. That, of course, is a workforce matter, and it's up to health boards to determine that. But you are quite right: we still need to do a lot more work on data, and I will ask the health Secretary what the NHS Wales Executive is doing in relation to that.

We should recognise that one in seven women are likely to develop breast cancer at some point in their lives. That's an incredibly high number. But the good news is that there has been a significant improvement in survival chances over the past few years. On top of that, in December, the NHS achieved the cancer waiting time target for breast cancer. So, more than 75 per cent of women started their first definitive treatment within 62 days. In Cwm Taf Morgannwg, that figure was 88 per cent. So, I think that it is really important that people clock that things are improving. That is a significant change, and it's something I think we should celebrate. But let's also note that the World Health Organization has suggested that breast cancer cases are projected to rise by 21 per cent by 2050. So, we are constantly playing catch-up on this issue. 

As those breast cancer cases rise—which you mentioned, First Minister—we have talked at length in this Chamber and elsewhere about the importance of quick diagnosis and then quick treatment in order to improve people's chances of surviving not just breast cancer, but all forms of cancer. We know that in Wales, unfortunately, across the health service, we have got one of the longest sets—or the longest set—of waiting lists in our NHS anywhere in the United Kingdom.

We know that health services in other parts of the world are harnessing not only the potential, but the current ability of artificial intelligence to help cut waiting lists. Unfortunately, in Wales, we are on the other end of this, where we are seeing two different computer systems not being able to communicate with each other, and fax machines in some instances still being used in our NHS. It seems to me that we are miles off being able to harness the potential that AI provides in being able to cut waiting lists and improve outcomes for people with all forms of cancer in Wales. So, what steps are the Welsh Government taking to ensure that that is a very quick journey, to ensure that that improves at pace, because lives are at stake?

Thanks very much. Well, I'm sure that you will be pleased to hear, Tom, that we are already using AI in relation to breast cancer. I have been to see it myself in north Wales, where it was incredibly impressive. There was a group of people, who were absolute experts in their fields, and the point here is not only could they identify it quicker—the AI programme could read lots and lots of slides and examples of tissue—but they could also be more accurate in terms of what needed to be done and how advanced it was. So, that is already being used, Tom, and I'm sure you'll be pleased to hear that.

The Welsh Government works in partnership with local authorities as statutory duty bearers, and other stakeholders, to meet the needs of all children, including those who are disabled. This is done through both policy and targeted grant funding across areas such as childcare, education, social care and play.

Diolch. As chair of the cross-party groups on disability, on autism and on death issues, barriers to accessing services and activities encountered by disabled children are regularly raised with me. At the 20 February meeting of the cross-party group on disability, we received a presentation on the evaluation report on swimming lessons for disabled children by charity Sparkle and Disability Sport Wales. Eighty-one per cent of family carers said there were barriers to accessing community-based swimming lessons, the majority involving neurodiverse children. We heard that, despite swimming being a compulsory part of the national curriculum in primary schools in Wales, many disabled children are, effectively, excluded due to a lack of accessible facilities, disability trained instructors and inclusive provisions. These findings are especially concerning given that drowning is one the leading causes of child trauma-related death, with a 46 per cent increase in child drownings in 2022 compared to the five-year average. What action will you, therefore, take to ensure that this cross-cutting issue is addressed and that disabled children are not failed and left behind?

Thanks very much, Mark. Thank you for all the work you do on the cross-party group on disability. It is genuinely appreciated. You are an absolute champion for the cause, and I think that's something that's recognised throughout this Chamber. The disability rights taskforce and the children and young people and well-being working groups have been working on issues in relation to children and disability, and they underlined the importance of accessible and inclusive services for all disabled children and young people. I'm sure you'll be pleased to hear, Mark, that the disabled people's rights plan has been shaped. It's being completed as we speak. It has involved 350 external stakeholders, which includes children, and that will be consulted upon very shortly. There will be opportunities then for people to feed back in that process. But obviously, we need to give people opportunities. I used to be a lifeguard, I'm sure you'll be interested to hear, Mark, and making sure that disabled people had those opportunities was important.

Excellent progress has been made on our commitment to tackle the climate crisis and grow the green economy. We are very proud of the green growth pledge, which provides a practical way for businesses to demonstrate how they're sustainably growing the Welsh economy and providing benefits to host communities.

Thank you for your answer. In north Wales, we have higher-than-average standing charges. I am told it's because of transporting the energy. Many EU countries have now set targets for solar photovoltaics on all new houses so energy is used where it's actually created and needed. Would the Welsh Government consider using the same policy going forward? The extra cost could go on a mortgage, it would be quite minimal over the long term and it would be soon recouped in energy savings. Plus, would the Welsh Government discuss with developers having community benefits with low tariffs for communities impacted by large-scale renewables, particularly in light of the UK Government's announcement yesterday? 

Thanks very much. We introduced new building regulations in 2022, and, through those, we required a 37 per cent reduction in carbon emissions for new homes when compared to the previous standards. Those amendments included solar PV within the energy target, but what we didn't do is to mandate it, because we wanted people to use what was appropriate for them. They had to hit the target of 37 per cent reduction, but rather than prescribe or prohibit any particular form of heating or energy generation, we gave people the flexibility, and PV was obviously one of the options they could use. We have the Ripple project—we in the Welsh Government worked with the company on the first site, near Merthyr, to prove that the co-operative model works. But there are also other alternatives where you can get loans, for example, from the Development Bank of Wales, to help with opportunities to invest.

And finally, question 8, Hannah Blythyn.

We are working across departments and with partners, including local authorities, to invest in vital infrastructure such as our roads and energy. This was demonstrated through our recent budget, which aims to drive economic growth in all parts of Wales, including Delyn.

Thank you for that answer.

Last week at First Minister's questions I set out the huge potential that a new development at the port of Mostyn could bring in terms of individual opportunities, but also for us once again to be at the forefront of our future industry and the green industrial revolution in north Wales. The old Mostyn railway station sits adjacent to the port of Mostyn and there is direct access into the port. To open the station in the form of a halt would support the increase in footfall that a greater number of jobs would bring, and also allow freight access into the port. First Minister, this is not only in line with your priority to better connect communities and enable more people to access new green employment, it would also unlock economic potential for my constituency and the country as a whole. And of course, to enable more freight to get off the road and onto rail puts us on the right track when it comes to contributing to tackling climate change. So, First Minister, is the Welsh Government committed to exploring how investing in and developing existing infrastructure, such as a railway station at the port of Mostyn, can decisively drive and deliver economic growth in Delyn and beyond?

Thanks very much, Hannah. Yes, you talked last week about the port of Mostyn, and I was very pleased to meet Jim in Brussels last week. He's very much the person you painted him to be. I agree that transport is a key enabler of economic growth and we need to make the best use of existing infrastructure. That's been recommended by the North Wales Transport Commission. We welcome the recognition by the UK Government that we've seen underinvestment in our railway for the first time. We don't own the rail infrastructure. It's up to the UK to deliver on that and invest in jobs and growth in relation to that. But I know that the north Wales corporate joint committee is consulting on its regional transport plan, and I know that the Cabinet Secretary for transport is developing exciting plans to accelerate work on the north Wales metro, and I'm sure that they'll consider options to improve transport connectivity in Mostyn as part of that work.

I thank the First Minister.

The next item will be the business statement and announcement, and I call on the Trefnydd to make that statement—Jane Hutt.

Thank you, Llywydd. There is one change to this week's business. As no questions have been tabled for answer by the Senedd Commission this week, timings for tomorrow's meeting have been adjusted accordingly. Draft business for the next three weeks is shown on the business statement and announcement, which is available to Members electronically. 

Trefnydd, can I request a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Education on support for service children in Welsh schools? It's been brought to my attention that service children in Wales are unfairly disadvantaged compared to their peers in England due to differences in how they are defined and funded by the Welsh Government. I've been informed that Welsh schools receive significantly less funding for service pupils than schools in England, which directly limits the interventions and support available to these children. I'm sure the Welsh Government will join me in wanting to eliminate the inequalities currently affecting service children here in Wales. Therefore, it's vital that there is a review into the Welsh Government's definition of a service child so that it aligns with the UK-wide standard used by the Service Children's Progression Alliance. At the very least, there needs to be a significant increase in funding for Supporting Service Children in Education Cymru to match the per-pupil rate provided in England. Trefnydd, this matter is having a real impact on service children and it needs to be addressed immediately, so I'd be grateful if a statement from the Welsh Government could be brought forward as soon as possible. Diolch, Llywydd.

Thank you, Paul Davies. I think the Cabinet Secretary for Education would value any evidence that you have of this. I certainly serve a constituency with a strong catchment from the services and it's never been brought to my attention, but, obviously, we would want to hear any evidence. In terms of the provision of education in Wales in terms of the per-pupil funding, it is excellent, particularly with the recent budget increase. But clearly, if there is something to share, the Cabinet Secretary of course would want to look at that.

Trefnydd, I'd like to ask for an oral statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government on reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete in homes. It's a year now since RAAC was identified in homes in Hirwaun, many of which are owned by Trivallis, but 17 were bought under the right-to-buy legislation. I met with those home owners last night, many of whom are still traumatised. They're angry, concerned, uncertain about the future. Many are elderly as well and don't have the funds to be able to fund the work required. We were told that there would be a four-nation approach. The Scottish Government have decided to go it alone and are providing more support. What is the situation with the Welsh Government now? Has that four-nation approach been agreed? If not, does the Welsh Government have any plans to provide greater support for these residents?

Thank you very much for your question, Heledd Fychan. 

I will draw this to the attention of the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government. I think it would be appropriate to give you that feedback in terms of what progress has been made on a four-nations approach, and, indeed, on the Welsh approach to this in terms of meeting the needs of those home owners.

This month marks the third anniversary of the landmark legislation on removing the defence of physical punishment of children coming into force in Wales. The debate about bringing in this legislation has now moved to England, and last week leading child doctors joined calls for a complete ban of physical punishment of children in England as well. The Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health are calling on the UK Government to bring in this legislation, saying now is the time for this Victorian era punishment to go. This in Wales has been such a positive move, and, of course, in Scotland as well. I welcome the Minister for Children and Social Care's statement in January providing an update on when the post-implementation review will report. I believe that will be at the end of the year.

As I understand it, the UK Government are waiting to see how things progress in Wales before they will decide on what to do in England. So, what can we do here in Wales to assist the UK Government in providing information about how this has been introduced in Wales? How can we work collaboratively with them and share information so that children in England, Welsh children who live in England and Welsh children who visit England can equally be protected from physical punishment?

Thank you very much, Julie Morgan, for raising this question, and thank you again for your long-standing and ultimately successful campaign to prohibit the use of physical punishment of children. It was a major landmark piece of legislation—and I can see the heads nodding around this Chamber—when in March 2022 Wales joined more than 60 nations. I hope that the UK Government will look to those 60 nations around the world in prohibiting the use of physical punishment of children. Of course, it did fulfil our programme for government commitment, but it was a historic moment for children and their rights in Wales. It's the third anniversary of this landmark legislation and it's part of life; it is accepted, it's embedded, it's Wales and how we treat our children, and I know how much that is welcomed by all of those involved.

And, particularly, I think it is important that we note the written statement from Dawn Bowden, the Minister for Children and Social Care, on 21 January, because she reminded us, as you did, and were so involved in, in your former role as Minister, that, before the legislation came into force, we delivered that extensive multimedia communications engagement campaign. And we continue to raise awareness of the law, and provide information, advice and support for parents about positive alternatives to physical punishment through the 'Parenting. Give it Time' campaign, to help them build loving and mutually respectful relationships with their children.

We can thank, again, Children in Wales for developing and publishing resources for professionals, supporting them to communicate with children about the law in an appropriate and sensitive manner.

Yes, there is a review. It was agreed that there would be reviews three and five years after the Act. So, we’re now into the third year, and now we have that—. The arrangements have been put in place to measure the impact of the legislation through data collection and monitoring.

But I think, again, you’ve given us the opportunity in this Chamber, I think, to put on record how proud we are as a Welsh Government, and, I hope, as a Senedd, for passing this historic legislation, which, of course, is now reflected in Scotland, as well as in Wales. And we need to, hopefully, help and encourage the UK Government to look at this, and our experience, in terms of moving forward to abolish the use of physical punishment of children, joining all those nations across the world who’ve embraced this policy.

Can I call for two statements today, please? The first one from the Minister for Children and Social Care on the support available to young carers in schools. I attended the young carers event, as did other MSs, earlier on this afternoon, and was hugely impressed by the way that they were advocating for themselves and their needs. But one of the challenges that some of them shared with us was the inconsistent way that some schools provide significant support for young carers, whereas others don’t. And I do think that this is something that we need to focus some attention on here, as Members of the Senedd, so that we can eradicate those differences and ensure that there’s a level playing field of support in all parts of Wales.

Secondly, can I call for an update from the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning on the Access Broadband Cymru scheme? Members will be aware that this scheme was paused in August of last year, but it was very important in helping lots of our constituents to get online and to make sure that they had decent broadband services in those parts of Wales where Openreach’s plans were not able to reach. And I do think that, given that there’s been a pause now of seven months, with no new applicants being received, it’s time that we have an update to make sure that this important scheme is now re-available to help our constituents get online and get access to high-speed broadband services.

Thank you very much, Darren Millar, for your important questions. 

And, of course, the Minister for Children and Social Care is very engaged and aware of the needs of young carers, in the community, but in schools as well. And we must make sure that there’s good practice across all our schools, and local education authorities are taking those responsibilities. But, also, can we just take a moment to pause and praise those young carers in Wales, which I think we would all want to do in Wales? And, also, to recognise that this is something where we do engage with the Cabinet Secretary for Education as well. It’s very much a cross-Government responsibility. But thank you for giving us the chance to air that today.

Yes, on access to broadband, I am doing a statement shortly on digital inclusion. Well, of course, digital inclusion is very much dependent on access to broadband. Digital inclusion includes a whole range of ways in which we’re investing in training and skills, development and support, particularly for those who have not had the opportunity to engage in that way. But, again, this is devolved and non-devolved, as you know, in terms of access to broadband, but I will be able to respond to those points in due course when I make my statement.

I request a debate, please, about changing planning application processes. Now, I’ve raised concerns a number of times about the impact quarries have on people's health. There's a quarry near Gelligaer, where residents have long complained about noise pollution, damage to properties and air quality because of dust. Now, a planning application to extend the quarrying has been approved, and some details about how this happened I think raise questions about the efficacy of how planning consent is granted. Not enough notice is given when planning applications go to committee, and only one resident is allowed to speak, which, surely, leaves so many residents voiceless, and there is no right to appeal when consent is given, even though such a right is afforded to developers when the decision goes against them. So, I would repeat that we need mandatory buffer zones between quarries and people's homes, and we need independent air quality monitoring. But many of these problems don't just relate to this one case. So, can we have a debate, please, about how these regulations can be changed?

Thank you very much, Delyth Jewell. Of course, these are issues that affect many Senedd Members, in terms of the rigour that there must be of the planning application process, guided by planning policy guidance from the Welsh Government, and regulations to underpin that. This is for local authorities, but, again, you've put this forward as an issue that we must continually look at in terms of the impact it has on local communities and the ability of citizens to actually make their point, make their objections, and then democratically, in terms of those responsible at local level, to observe and respond to those concerns.

Trefnydd, Michael Sheen's Secret Million Pound Giveaway is a current documentary that shines a light on the murky world of financial institutions levying crippling rates of interest on credit and debt, suffered by individuals and families. It's a very powerful piece of work, which I think very importantly and usefully highlights some of the practices involved and some of the institutions—banks and other financial institutions—conducting themselves in this way. We know, I think, that there are over 100,000 families in Wales affected—going on the statistics within the documentary, and, of course, many of these families and individuals are amongst the most hard-pressed and impoverished. I wonder, Trefnydd, if you might consider with your Government colleagues a debate or a statement here in Plenary session on how Welsh Government might act to address these issues and end these abuses.

Thank you very much, John Griffiths. I'm sure a number of Senedd Members watched that programme, Michael Sheen's programme, which was broadcast last night. I very much valued, in my role as Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, the opportunity to see the evidence, the horrific evidence, that many people are not aware of, in terms of creditors selling on their debts—a common practice in the financial sector, with debt acquisition companies purchasing bundles of debts, for a fee, often one that's significantly lower than the total value of the debts. Now, Michael Sheen set up—just for others who didn't see it—a debt acquisition company, and purchased a bundle of debts, worth around £1 million, for £100,000. Michael Sheen's company doesn't want to recoup the money it spent purchasing the bundle of debts, but, in taking this decision, they've written off all the debts that they purchased, from people across south Wales. It's estimated that 900 people in south Wales have benefited from the action of Michael Sheen's debt acquisition company.

So, just in terms of responding to this, we do recognise that times are very challenging. We're doing all we can to help people struggling with their finance. It was featured on the programme, the role of credit unions, in terms of ethical, affordable lenders. And it's a chance to say, again, that we're investing £1.6 million in credit unions, in expanding their lending to those who struggle to borrow, helping thousands get affordable loans when high-street banks won't help, as we heard from the programme. Over the past five years, again, our single advice fund has helped over 361,000 people claim £170 million in additional income and get nearly £50 million of debts written off.

So, I'm reaching out to Michael Sheen, so that we can discuss the actions we're taking to address the issues he's raised, and also to learn more about that campaign, that fair banking Act campaign, which clearly could—. It's not devolved, but I think we need to engage fully with this, and hopefully, then, it would be appropriate to have a debate or statement in due course.

Trefnydd, can I request a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs on the Monmouthshire and Brecon canal? The canal is one of the most picturesque waterways in the UK, attracting millions of visitors per year, and contributing significantly to the economy, to the people and communities in south Wales. Now, it is reliant upon water abstracted from the River Usk, with 80 per cent of the water needed to feed the canal provided by the river. The water is only, in effect, borrowed from the Usk as the canal flows back into the river at Newport. However, recently, new conditions attached to water abstraction licences has meant that the Canal and River Trust are now required to limit abstraction from the River Usk, posing a serious risk to the future viability of the canal. The trust are now facing a choice between having to pay an enormous eye-watering £1 million or more for the water supply, which has been free for over two centuries, or severely restrict the use of the canal. And I’d therefore welcome a statement from the Cabinet Secretary outlining what can be done to ensure a viable solution is found as soon as possible on the issue to secure and protect the future of the Mon and Brec canal.

Well, thank you very much, Peter Fox, for that question. Obviously, we really value our canals, and the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs I think is aware of some of the challenges facing them, and I'm sure you've probably already discussed that with him. But it is important to share again, in terms of the impact of the water extraction from the Usk river. I won't go into it any further, because I'm not briefed fully enough to reassure you on this, but I was very interested. It may have no impact at all, but the £1 million that was announced today, in terms of investing in the River Wye—a different river, but in that part of the world. We are actually looking very carefully at the fact that you need to have that clean and clear water supply to the Mon and Brecon canal. Let's make it happen.

Can I ask for an updated oral statement or preferably a debate in Government time on dentistry, please? There have been some conflicting stories told about dentistry here in Wales, with the Government and the UK Government extolling the services and the British Dental Association calling the Government out for gaslighting. Now, the statistics released last week show that in the year 2023-24 there were 17 fewer practices in Wales, with more closed since then, and the number of courses of treatment in the quarter to September 2024 was over one third lower than the last quarter. So, I think this Chamber deserves an updated oral statement or, as I say, a debate in Government time on dentistry in Wales at the earliest possible opportunity.

Thank you very much for that question about dentistry and access to dentistry, and, indeed, the provision of dental care in the NHS, which I know that the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care regularly reports on, and indeed in terms of the importance of those who are coming in to take on the new contracts. But also you will have the opportunity, of course, to raise this issue with the Cabinet Secretary when he comes forward for his oral questions as well.

Trefnydd, I'd like to call for a Welsh Government statement on its plans for encouraging major events in north Wales, in particular major sporting events. You will be aware, this Friday night, Wales men's under 20s will play England at Cardiff Arms Park. Now, for a long time, this fixture would have taken place at Eirias Park in Colwyn Bay, which for many years hosted every Welsh men's under 20s six nations home fixture. And people in north Wales really embraced the opportunity to see the men’s under-20s play every year. Sadly, this year, both home games will be hosted in south Wales. As you can appreciate, it’s a long way for my residents in north Wales to travel, and it’s certainly an unwelcome development, because not only is hosting these events good for the local economy but sporting events can certainly inspire the next generation, encouraging children and young people to get active and take part. I’m really pleased that my colleague Darren Millar has been meeting with Rygbi Gogledd Cymru in north Wales to have these discussions to understand how we can repatriate the under-20s men’s team to north Wales. But it would be welcome if the Welsh Government could also bring forward a statement to update us as to how it sees the opportunity for these type of events in the future. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thank you very much. I’m sure that the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership will be aware of this in terms of the fact that the under-20s home games were in north Wales. I’m sure that you’re having useful discussions about this, but it’s also useful to bring this to the attention of the Minister and the Welsh Government.

I would like to raise a statement, please, from the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership on the issues faced by the beleaguered music venue industry in Wales. Music venues are the lifeblood of our cultural heritage, the incubators of talent and the beating heart of many communities. Yet, Wales has the highest rate of music venue closure of any other part of the UK in 2024-25, with a closure rate of more than double that of the national rate. Less than 0.5 per cent of venues are making a profit and nearly half are running at a loss. These stats are a real cause for concern. We are slowly becoming a nation where grass-roots music is stifled, where young artists have nowhere to perform and where our towns and cities are drained of their cultural vibrancy. Most music venues cite the crushing burden of business rates as one of the biggest issues they face, with many simply unable to foot the bill for Welsh business rates, which are proportionately higher than anywhere else in the UK. So, can we please receive a statement from the Minister on whether the Welsh Government have considered the discretionary rate relief for music venues to take the pressure off the industry and prevent our towns and cities from becoming cultural and artistic deserts?

Thank you very much, Gareth Davies. Of course, our music venues are really important to the thriving culture of music in Wales. Indeed, some of these venues are privately owned, some of them are publicly owned as well. And, indeed, there are changes in terms of people’s wishes to attend, as well as the customer changes and engagement with access to music in this way. But the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership has heard the point, so thank you for raising it.

I thank the Trefnydd.

Item 3 today is a statement by the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership on the young person’s guarantee. I call on the Minister, Jack Sargeant.

Diolch yn fawr, Deputy Presiding Officer. In November 2021, we launched the young person's guarantee, reinforcing our commitment to giving Welsh young people the best possible start in life. This initiative stands as a cornerstone of the First Minister’s vision for Wales, a country where opportunity is available to all, fuelled by our priority of jobs and green growth. I am privileged to play my part in a Government focused on delivering what truly matters to Welsh communities.

Many of you know my own story. I started as an apprentice myself. So, when I speak about the transformative power of skills, training and support, it comes from personal experience. I have seen first-hand what quality support can do to help young people thrive in Wales. The driving force behind our guarantee was straightforward but ambitious: to ensure everyone aged 16 to 24 can easily access the support they need, whether that is continuing in education, pursuing training, starting an apprenticeship, entering employment or even launching their own business. I am proud to say that the young person's guarantee is making this vision a reality. Over 48,500 young people have already been supported through our employability and skills programmes alone. This represents real lives, real futures being shaped. And through this work, we are making solid progress towards our national milestone: ensuring that at least 90 per cent of 16 to 24-year-olds are in education, employment or training by 2050. The latest provisional data shows that we are right on track. In 2022, 85.8 per cent of our young people were engaged in education, employment or training, up from 83.7 per cent in 2021. The timing of this guarantee couldn't have been more critical. It has helped shield our young people from both the after-effects of the COVID pandemic and the ongoing cost-of living crisis. It has provided the crucial extra layer of support when they have needed it most.

So, let me take you through what this looks like in practice. Through the Working Wales gateway, young people receive personalised, impartial careers and employability guidance, helping them navigate their options and start building the future they want. Our flagship programme, Jobs Growth Wales+, provides tailored support for 16 to 19-year-olds through employment, formal training and voluntary work. Since April 2022, 13,345 young people have engaged with this programme. Dirprwy Lywydd, just last week, I visited two Jobs Growth Wales+ and Communities for Work Plus projects in Cardiff. What struck me most was not just the statistics, but it was seeing the dedicated staff helping young people find pathways that genuinely suited their individual needs and the variety of positive outcomes these young people were experiencing as a result. I was inspired to see the full-circle nature of the support as well, with a former barbering apprentice, Madison, now training up a Jobs Growth Wales+ learner, Regan, in his role as senior barber at Alpha Omega Grooming.

For those facing more complex barriers to employment, our Communities for Work Plus programme provides specialist advisory support and mentoring. Nearly 10,000 young people have been supported through this programme since April 2022. For those aged 20 and above looking to re-enter the job market, including those facing redundancy and ex-offenders, our ReAct+ programme has provided grant support for vocational training to 735 young people since June 2022.

Dirprwy Lywydd, we are also nurturing excellence. Through the Inspiring Skills Excellence in Wales programme, we have recently engaged over 1,500 young people in skills competitions. I will be at an awards ceremony this Thursday to help to celebrate their achievements personally. And then we have taken Wales to the world stage. At the WorldSkills final in Lyon last September, six Welsh students competed as part of team UK, with Ruben Duggan bringing home a silver medal. I am especially proud that nearly a third of the WorldSkills UK training team came from our own education and training sector here in Wales.

Entrepreneurship is another vital way. Since 2021, Big Ideas Wales has reached nearly 250,000 young people. Our young person's start-up grant has provided financial support for 615 individuals to start their own businesses, with grants of up to £2,000 alongside business support and advice. Dirprwy Lywydd, I had the opportunity to meet one of those individuals in my own constituency on Friday, Cody, who started his career as a volunteer sports photographer at his local club, Connah’s Quay Town. With the support from Big Ideas Wales, Cody went on to immortalise Wrexham’s promotion journey in 2023. Just last month, Deputy Presiding Officer, Cody captured Jude Bellingham’s last-minute winner for Real Madrid in the Champions League versus Manchester City—Welsh Labour's young person’s guarantee on one of the biggest stages in the world.

And as we celebrated during National Apprenticeship Week, apprenticeships remain a powerful route to success across Cymru. Since the guarantee began in November 2021, we've seen 24,000 apprenticeship starts by 16 to 24-year-olds. There is much to celebrate in the support available for our young people in Wales and the significant impact it's having on this generation.

Dirprwy Lywydd, through our young person's guarantee, we're not just delivering for the young people of today, we're inspiring the young people of tomorrow and laying the firm foundations for generations to come. Diolch.

I thank the Minister for his statement today on the young person's guarantee. While there's nothing new, really, within the statement today, I always welcome the ambition of the young person's guarantee, and the reality, however, for the young people in Wales, is quite stark. I'll quickly remind the Chamber of the latest employment statistics, which paint a worrying picture. The youth employment rate in Wales has dropped to 54 per cent, a decline of 3.5 per cent compared to last year. In contrast to the UK, the rate has fallen by 1.9 per cent. Young women have been particularly impacted, with their employment rate falling by 8.7 per cent to 51.7 per cent. Long-term unemployment remains a persistent issue, with 9,300 people unemployed for extended periods, making up 21.5 per cent of total unemployment. Too many remain trapped in economic inactivity, lacking the support needed to transition into sustainable careers.

Now, the Minister has mentioned his time as an apprentice, but the decision to cut funding for apprenticeships in the 2024-25 financial year was concerning, and independent research suggests that this will result in a loss of 5,750 apprenticeship opportunities. So, given that, as the Minister says, apprenticeships are a key pillar of the young person's guarantee, what steps is the Minister taking to mitigate the impact of last year's apprenticeship cuts on young people, ensuring there is no lost generation?

Beyond apprenticeships, young people have repeatedly raised concerns about barriers to employment and training, particularly the lack of work experience opportunities. They understand the value of work experience but struggle to secure those necessary placements. So, what concrete actions are the Welsh Government taking to ensure all young people can access meaningful work experience?

Transport, Dirprwy Lywydd, is another major obstacle, especially the lack of provision in rural areas, areas where there are already fewer opportunities to enter the workplace. Alarmingly, less than half of those surveyed were even aware of schemes like MyTravelPass. So, how does the Minister plan to improve awareness of these schemes and address the fundamental transport barriers that continue to lock young people out of opportunities?

Now, the transition from school to work or further education remains a pinch-point. Too many young people feel they lack consistent support and clear pathways. Some do not know where to turn when they face setbacks like dropping out of education or losing a job. Others have called for more tailored careers advice that aligns with their specific needs. So, what steps will be taken to ensure the young person's guarantee provides genuine long-term support rather than just signposting young people to different services—so, hand-holding throughout their journey for those who require it?

However, it is important to acknowledge the positives within the young person's guarantee, and the Minister has alluded to those in his statement. Since its inception, over 48,000 young people have engaged with employability and skills programmes, more than 6,000 have secured employment, and over 724 have started their own businesses. That, for me, is the most exciting part. The Jobs Growth Wales+ initiative has engaged with over 13,000 young people since 2022, with 60.1 per cent of completers achieving positive outcomes in 2023-24. Eighty-nine per cent of participants felt the support met or exceeded expectations, and 97 per cent believed it improved their job prospects. These are positive figures; it's doing well. But I think that they can be doing a much better job still. And those challenges do still remain. While engagement numbers are promising, as I've mentioned, data on long-term employment sustainability is lacking. That's where more work needs to be done. Many young people still do not have access to the available support, raising questions about the programme's reach and effectiveness. Those that it's reaching, it's working well with, but how can we get it reaching more people, giving the employment statistics that I mentioned at the beginning of my response?

Finally, in the 45 minutes that I've got left, Dirprwy Lywydd, we must talk about entrepreneurship. Wales has seen record increases in early stage entrepreneurship, yet a quarter of young people say they were actively discouraged from setting up a business while at school or college, which is far higher than the UK average. That, for me, I think, is poor advice. The Federation of Small Businesses has called for a holistic strategy to support young entrepreneurs and a stronger place for enterprise education in the school curriculum. So, what action is being taken to ensure entrepreneurship is seen as a viable career path, particularly for those who may not wish to follow traditional employment routes, because it's those job creators, those wealth creators, who end up paying the taxes that pay for the public services that we all enjoy?

Now, to close, the young person's guarantee has potential, but, under Labour's watch, it's not quite fulfilling that potential. So, really, Minister, it's a B+ at the moment, it's working well, but how can we get it up to an A* level?

I'm grateful for the teacher's report from Sam Kurtz in his response—pleased it was only 45 seconds left on the clock, and not 45 minutes, as he might have wished. But I am very grateful to Sam Kurtz for the way in which he challenges me on the delivery of the young person's guarantee, but also for realising the success of the programme and supporting the ambition of the programme. As I said in my statement, and as Sam Kurtz referred to, the young person's guarantee, since November 2021, has reached over 48,500 people. So, I'll just go through a number of the points that the Member raises.

His last point was around entrepreneurship and the support available through the programme. Well, in the young person's guarantee, Presiding Officer, we have the Big Ideas workshops. It's part of the case study that I pointed to in relation to the constituency visit that I held last week, and Cody now taking his photography skills and business to the biggest stage of the footballing world. That, Big Ideas Wales, has delivered workshops for entrepreneurs, reaching nearly 250,000 people across Wales, so actively seeking to support them there. And, again, the young person's start-up grant has supported financially 615 economically inactive or unemployed individuals with advice and grants of up to £2,000. There's more to do, and that's why we're investing more in the budget, Presiding Officer.

The Member raises transport. Well, he will know of, in the recent final budget that passed through the Senedd last week, the money invested into the £1 bus fare for young people. I'm sure he would have wished to support it, that ambition, through the budget.

The Member also points to a number of things that we are actively doing. So, on apprenticeships, we know over 24,000 people have been engaged in apprenticeships through the young person's guarantee, making that a success. I'll just find one case study on that for the Member: Working Wales, investment from the young person's guarantee to support young people. Well, they supported 22-year-old Cian from Bangor who was considering his options during the pandemic. He now is in an apprenticeship at a childcare nursery. That is exactly what the young person's guarantee is about. We will go on this year investing £144 million in apprenticeships in Wales, and we had the discussion during National Apprenticeships Week about the importance of putting that money into the apprenticeship system.

I agree with the Member when it comes to work experience as well, and valued work experience indeed. That's why we should look at the work of Careers Wales, where they offer careers and work-related experiences across the curriculum, supporting schools in their ambitions to do that. One of the proudest things, I think, in the budget, certainly with my responsibilities, and I'm looking at the Minister for Further and Higher Education here, is the support that we're putting into the junior apprenticeship programme, which looks to tackle some of those experience issues as well—an increase of 50 per cent of the investment uplift in the final budget, Presiding Officer.

The Member just points to—. One more point, before I move on: more engagement. Well, we will do that directly through Communities for Work Plus, through Jobs Growth Wales+, going out into those hard-to-reach areas. I was able to see some of that myself across visits in the last couple of weeks, and what I would encourage all Members of the Senedd to do is, when they go out speaking to young people across Wales, to point them to these types of programmes, to point to the offer of the young person's guarantee, because it is there to be used.

The Member talked about the more detailed mentoring, perhaps, that's needed. Well, that's exactly what happens in Communities for Work Plus, that's exactly what happens through Working Wales as well, where that detailed support and mentoring, not just in that initial period, but through a longer stage process, to make sure that they are comfortable in entering training, education or employment in the future, does happen. I hope the Member will seek to encourage more young people accessing the guarantee as we have the ambition to do so, and I thank him for that.

Thank you, Minister, for the statement.

Of course, there are a number of positives in this statement, and we shouldn't shy away from that, and the principle, which I think is felt across the Chamber, is the right principle behind this policy. But I think there is an important point for us to reconcile with here, and that is that this is a guarantee of an offer, and not an offer of a guarantee. And there is an important distinction there.

Now, four years on, and just a year away from the end of this Government term, despite this policy, stark figures do remain, and I think it's important that we recognise that. More than one in 10 young people under 25 in Wales are not in employment, education or training. Now, in one in 10, that's not insignificant. So, the Minister sets out the successes of this policy, but it isn't a success for those one in 10. But the way we do make it a success for those one in 10 is by recognising that, actually, there's a lot further for us to go when it comes to this particular policy. Now, a key part of this pledge was delivering 125,000 new apprenticeships over this Senedd term. Now, that target will be missed. So, how does the apprenticeship programme factor into working out how successful this policy has been? Because we know how precarious the apprenticeship sector is right now in that particular portfolio.

I was also disheartened to read that the region I represent, South Wales West, has the highest youth NEET rate of any Welsh economic region—14.2 per cent in the year ending September 2024—and, with the devastating job losses at Tata Steel, I can only imagine this figure will rise further. And yet, even in the face of all of this, there's a group who are even more at risk, which is young disabled people. Over 35 per cent of disabled young people were NEET in the same period. Now, that's more than one in three. And despite this Government's guarantee, they are still far more likely to be without a job, education or training.

Now, on top of all this, we hear that Keir Starmer is expected to announce billions in cuts to disability benefit. Now, I'm not asking the Cabinet Secretary here to comment on Keir Starmer's cuts specifically with this question, but I just wonder what impact do think, generally, the cuts to disability benefits would have on young disabled people in Wales seeking to go into employment, education or training. Many of them are unable to work, so where will that leave them? What will the Government do to ensure disabled young people in Wales are not abandoned? Because, right now, Welsh Labour talks a big game about guarantees, but the reality is they're failing the very people who need them the most.

I'm grateful to Luke Fletcher for the way in which he set out and his commitment to supporting young people. He does mention the one in 10 figure where more action is needed. Well, that's why, again, Presiding Officer, we started the young person’s guarantee, to access those hard-to-reach places, and we'll continue investing in that way. If you look at the trend of where NEETs is, and those in education, employment and training, from 2022 to 2023, it's gone up, and I expect it to go up again. But he makes a real point about how we engage, as Sam Kurtz raised earlier, with young people, to ensure that they know the offer is, firstly, there, and then the offer is tailored to suit them—so, both responding to industry needs and requirements, but also to make sure, if there is additional support that we can offer them, like the experience I've mentioned with Communities for Work Plus, where they need that more detailed mentoring scheme, then that support is also there for them and it's tailored in that way.

The Member is absolutely right to highlight disabled people, and I look forward to responding to Jenny Rathbone's committee, the committee that she chairs, alongside the social justice Minister, on the important work and inquiry Jenny's committee has done in this area in making a series of recommendations, which we'll consider and bring forward.

I just want to point to two areas in which the young person's guarantee and the work of the Welsh Government is supporting disabled people in employment. Firstly, through our disabled people's employment champions; they will continue to influence the attitudinal changes needed to encourage more employers to recognise the benefits of employing disabled young people. And then more directly involved with the young person's guarantee is our flagship programme, Jobs Growth Wales+. Following the feedback from young people directly, as part of the national conversation, we have now provided supported employment coaches for those who are aged 16 to 19, participating or who wish to participate in the Jobs Growth Wales+ programme who identify as being disabled or having an additional learning need. And I'm keen to make sure that support continues in that way.

The Member then brings up apprenticeships and how we respond. Well, we know, don't we, how important the skills system is for responding to the opportunities. He mentioned the situation in his area. One of the ways we get out of those is having the opportunities in front of us, and we know our First Minister's priorities of jobs and green growth—. Well, much of the support and backing in realising that ambition of the First Minister is within the skills system, and that's why, in this budget, we're investing £7.5 million in the flexible skills programme; £32 million for Jobs Growth Wales to continue the work with young people, as I've set out; £16.8 million in Communities for Work Plus in this programme; and then a £144 million investment in apprenticeships this year, Presiding Officer, to meet the target of 100,000 starts in this Senedd term. I had the opportunity to be at the National Training Federation for Wales apprenticeship conference, which I think the Member was at, on Thursday, listening directly to four apprentices on the panel, knowing and showcasing that the investment from the Welsh Government has changed their lives, and one of them on the stage said that it has literally saved their life. So, we'll go on supporting apprentices and apprenticeship providers with a £144 million investment. I thank the Member because of his genuine interest in supporting apprentices and the skills system. I think others in his party should follow his lead.

Minister, I welcome this statement today. We do know, I think, that the young person's guarantee needs to work with the wider offer for our 14 and 19-year-olds with regard to education and training. I welcome the junior apprenticeship initiative, which I think is very promising, and I welcome the initiative of the colleges of further education, Welsh Government and others on that. But there is that wider issue of 14-year-olds in our schools who want a vocational education, which isn't available in school and which colleges of further education are not funded to provide, and I think we really do need to address those issues if we're going to make the young person's guarantee as meaningful as it needs to be.

Another issue I'd like to raise, Minister, in the brief time I have, is around CAF, a train manufacturer in my constituency. They're a Spanish company. In Spain, they have a high number of women working as engineers with the company, but here in Wales they find it very difficult to recruit girls and women into their apprenticeships and into their workforce, and I wonder if those are issues that you'll be looking to address as part of the young person's guarantee.

I thank John Griffiths for that. I'll just take the point on 14 to 16-year-olds first. Presiding Officer, I remember when I was that age, I engaged in a very early initiative of what would be classed as a junior apprenticeship now, with Deeside college at the time—I think it was the 'school link' programme—and I found that invaluable. Going every Friday for two years to college, in that pre-apprenticeship phase, certainly served me well. It's one of the reasons why the Welsh Government, not directly in my portfolio responsibilities, but in the education division, has increased that junior apprenticeship budget by 50 per cent to £600,000 in 2025-26, allowing more students to benefit from that type of programme. But John Griffiths makes an important point about making sure that access to the programme is across Wales and available to more learners, and I fully acknowledge his points there and that’s why officials in the education division, supported by officials in my division, are working very closely with Medr to see how we can scope further expansion of that particular programme.

The Member than points to CAF in his own constituency, the train manufacturer, a really high-skilled industry within the Newport constituency, and the need to bring more women and girls into science, technology, engineering, and mathematics subjects, and then on to training and employment in those areas.

I just look to the example of Airbus in my own constituency. Rosie Boddy, who was an Airbus apprentice, engaged with the young person’s guarantee programme through our Inspiring Skills Excellence in Wales and WorldSkills support, is now training people in the college, in Coleg Cambria in Deeside and Wrexham, but not only training the next generation of future Rosies and future engineers, she is also going out to schools. During National Apprenticeship Week, she was on a stage nationally, in Birmingham, I think, to promote the importance of that sector, breaking down the stereotypes, and we should be reminded of Rosie and other people like Rosie on International Women’s Day. That is one of the ways we will continue to champion, highlighting successes like Rosie’s, where this has had success. I want to see engineering and manufacturing open to all, and the young person’s guarantee will help us get there in that way.

Minister, I say this to somebody who’s got more recent experience than I have of going through this, but it is a daunting time when you first realise you have to choose a career path. It’s not easy to know which path to take and where to start. Many just follow family members into a career in exactly the same area.

As you know, you and I both embarked on a different career path than most who are politicians, by working in industry. Many young people don’t know how to access jobs and training in high-skilled manufacturing. Too many parents hear about manufacturing redundancies and guide their children into professions such as teaching and the law, which appear a lot safer. Our economy needs high-value manufacturing, from the production of computer games to the production of aircraft. How is the young person’s guarantee encouraging people to access these careers and encouraging skills growth when they do?

Can I thank Mike Hedges for that? Llywydd, it’s always good to engage in conversation and discussion around skills programmes with Mike Hedges, someone who understands the industry and is from the industry of manufacturing. He will be pleased, I’m sure, to hear that I am in Swansea on Thursday, celebrating the achievements through the Inspiring Skills Excellence in Wales programme, Skills Competition Wales, in which students from across the country take part at the highest level when it comes to skills competence, and I’ll be there on Thursday celebrating that success.

But he will also be aware and be pleased to know that, in November, Wales will host for the first time the UK national finals of the WorldSkills competition. That is an opportunity to inspire and develop young people’s vocational skills by celebrating their achievements on that national stage. I’m proud that we are supporting those types of programmes through Skills Competition Wales and through our young person’s guarantee offer. The young person’s guarantee offer reaches young people—many, many young people—in every single constituency across Wales. In every corner of Wales, our young person’s guarantee offers people aged 16 to 24 a route into employment, education or training. And in particular on skills, and when it comes to vocational training routes, well, I’m very proud of my own training routes, Presiding Officer, the first Minister of skills to be from an apprenticeship background, the first Minister of social partnership to have that background, and the first Minister of culture to also have that background.

I thank the Minister.

The next item is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, the response to the Health and Social Care Committee’s recommendation about emergency ambulance response targets. I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Jeremy Miles.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. Members will recall my statement in November when I announced that I would be setting up a review of the emergency ambulance response target. This was in direct response to a recommendation from the Senedd’s Health and Social Care Committee, which had questioned the appropriateness of the current target. That review has now concluded.

From 1 July onwards, we will implement changes to the ambulance performance framework. In response to this, the Welsh ambulance service will trial changes to its clinical response model. These changes are designed to save more lives and improve people’s outcomes following a cardiac arrest, a serious illness, incident or accident. We will test them for a year, and if successful, they will be introduced permanently.

We currently have one, time-based emergency response target. We are the only part of the UK that continues on this basis. This target is for 999 calls that are categorised as red or immediately life-threatening. We expect 65 per cent of red calls to receive a response in eight minutes. These targets have been in place since the 1970s.

Dirprwy Lywydd, the overwhelming view of the review group underpinned by expert evidence is that this is no longer appropriate as a target nor is it fit for purpose. There are a number of reasons for this. There is no evidence it helps to drive better outcomes. It does not support effective clinical prioritisation by staff. For example, someone who is in cardiac arrest, is not breathing and does not have a heartbeat, is given the same priority as a person who may be experiencing relatively minor breathing issues. This means that precious ambulance resources are being dispatched to people who are less seriously ill and may not require emergency treatment or onward hospital care.

We measure success purely through the lens of response time. So, if an ambulance arrives in eight minutes and one second and the person survives, that would be regarded as a failure because the response time target was missed. But, perversely, if the ambulance arrived within eight minutes and the person died, that would be regarded as meeting the target.

The review group looking at the clinical response model has recommended that we move away from just a time-based target as the sole measure of success and focus on clinical outcomes, especially survival following cardiac arrest. Survival rates in Wales following an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest are currently less than 5 per cent. This is not acceptable. England has a survival rate of 10 per cent, Scotland 9 per cent. The figure is far higher in other parts of the world. We must aspire to do better and to match the survival rates in European countries and some US cities. For people in cardiac arrest, time makes a difference. Starting CPR immediately can double or even quadruple survival chances. Shocking the heart, defibrillation, within three to five minutes of collapse can increase survival rates to as much as 70 per cent.

The group has concluded that two new approaches are needed. Firstly, a more balanced approach is required with a greater focus on clinical outcomes to drive improvement. And secondly, we need to action this through a new focus on increasing early CPR and defibrillation.

At the recommendation of the group, we are creating two new priority 999 categories: a purple category, which will cover cardiac and respiratory arrest; and a red emergency category, which includes responses to major trauma, major bleeding and cases where a person’s condition could deteriorate swiftly without rapid intervention. Both will be subject to time-based targets; we'll expect an average response time of between six to eight minutes for patients in each category.

However, while advanced life support from a paramedic is an important part of the chain of survival, early CPR and defibrillation, which can be delivered by bystanders and people in local communities, are equally crucial in securing better outcomes in the event of an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest. And learning from elsewhere shows a comprehensive programme of training, education, and increasing the availability of defibrillators can significantly improve outcomes for people in cardiac arrest.

So, to support our renewed focus on improving outcomes, I've taken two immediate steps. Firstly, I have, this week, transferred the national Save a Life Cymru programme into the Welsh ambulance service, to enable a more integrated systematic approach to cardiac arrest response. Secondly, I have asked the NHS Wales joint commissioning committee and the ambulance service to undertake an immediate and rapid review to explore how we can go much further to provide education and CPR training resources; to increase public awareness of these life-saving techniques; to improve accessibility to defibrillators; and to encourage community involvement. This work will conclude by the end of June and I expect a delivery plan to be implemented to coincide with the launch of our new ambulance performance framework from 1 July. As political leaders, we must also seek to set an example. I am pleased to have completed a course of CPR training and would like to extend an offer from the Welsh ambulance service for CPR training to all Senedd Members.

Dirprwy Lywydd, importantly, the new ambulance performance framework will have clinical outcomes as its primary measure, reflecting a clear consensus from the review group. It will be supported by clinical indicators and time-based targets to help contribute to the achievement of better outcomes. From 1 July, for the purple category, we will report monthly on the percentage of people to have a heartbeat restored after a period of cardiac arrest, which is subsequently retained until arrival at hospital, and secondly, the median time it takes to bystander CPR and defibrillation following an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest. And for both purple and red categories, we will report the average and ninetieth percentile ambulance response times. 

The review group has recommended this change to bring Wales more into line with the other UK nations. The Welsh ambulance service will use the next three months to make the necessary changes to its systems and working practices to ensure that its clinical response model can deliver the new performance framework.

Over the next two months, a further review will be undertaken to consider whether measures are required for incidents not categorised in the purple or red categories, which were outside the scope of this review. The ambulance service will consider the findings of this additional review before finalising changes to its clinical model. This will include conditions that currently fall in the amber category, such as symptoms of a stroke or heart attack. This will also see the rolling out of a rapid clinical screening process for all calls not categorised as purple or red. This will be done by a senior paramedic or nurse and take place immediately after the initial assessment by a 999 call handler. I saw the team in action at first-hand last week and I am confident that the early clinical judgment that they can apply will make a big difference in getting ambulances to where they are most needed.

Of course, Dirprwy Lywydd, much of this is dependent on the availability of ambulance resources. Last week, I had the chance to ride along with an ambulance crew to see the amazing work they do throughout their working day. I also saw the impact that our ambulances have outside hospitals. We must have a significant improvement in ambulance handover performance to ensure that ambulances are available to respond to 999 calls in the community and are not stuck outside hospitals for hours on end. In recognition of the need for urgent action, I have established a new clinically led national ambulance patient handover improvement delivery group. This group will identify and oversee action aimed at improving ambulance patient handover performance, learning from UK-wide and international best practice. And this will include a much greater focus on improving patient flow and productivity of discharge planning to ensure that we have sufficient bed capacity seven days a week.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I’d like to thank the review group, finally, for their rapid and thorough work. I will provide a further update in advance of the planned launch of the framework on 1 July.

Can I thank the Cabinet Secretary for his statement today, and say that it's very welcome indeed? And I thank the Cabinet Secretary for responding so positively to the Health and Social Care Committee, as well, and his approach in this regard.

Only 48.3 per cent of red calls met the eight-minute target in January of this year, and if you look at the last four years in January, the target has worsened. Of course, the Welsh Government has not met the red target since July 2020, so this is very much the backdrop to this statement today. You mentioned in your statement, Cabinet Secretary, that the eight-minute response standard has been in place since the 1970s—wow, that's a long time ago, probably before I was born—and you mentioned that it’s not fit for purpose. You say that there is no evidence it helps to drive better outcomes—or this is what the group concluded—and it does not support effective clinical prioritisation. That is powerful stuff. So, the obvious question here is should the eight-minute response standard have been reviewed and changed well before now.

Of course, having targets in place is important. They’re there to ensure accountability and provide a base to build on, and it’s important for this Senedd to be able to scrutinise you, Cabinet Secretary, and hold you to account, and indeed, it’s important for you to be able to hold the service to account. So, that’s why it’s important to have those targets in place. You say that the changes are designed to save more lives, improve outcomes. How will this be reported and measured? It’s important that we’ve got a measure and a target to be able to account for that.

During the period of the trial, will you still be reporting on the current eight-minute target? Because clearly, it’s only a trial period, so I would say it is important that that data is still published during the trial period. Will the new measures make it easier to make comparisons to other parts of the United Kingdom as well? Because in the past, there’s always been a debate, and there’s been some discussion about targets, about them not being direct comparisons. It's important to be able to hold this Government, and other Governments, and vice versa, to account in that regard.

You talk about a comprehensive programme of training and education and increasing the availability of defibrillators. You expanded a bit on that. Can you just let us know if there’s any finance attached to that element of your statement? Because there is a cost attached to do what you’ve outlined in that regard. You mentioned that we will also see the rolling out of the rapid clinical screening process for all calls not categorised as purple or red, and this will be done by a senior paramedic or nurses and take place immediately after the initial assessment by a 999 call handler. It seems that there’s an extra resource that’s needed there by clinical professionals. I wonder if you could outline if you’re content that there is enough availability for those professionals to be in place.

And finally, you say that we must have a significant improvement in ambulance handover performance. I don’t think that can be overstated. I would suggest that the single biggest challenge for the service is handover delays at emergency departments. I wonder whether that would be your assessment as well. I thought this was, perhaps, a weaker part of the statement, because we already know that this is a problem—25 per cent, often, of the ambulance stock is held up outside a hospital. This is the big issue. Towards the end of your statement, you talk about a review and the establishment of another group, but I was a bit disappointed on that. I think we know what the problem is; now we need some action in that regard. I wonder if you could put a little bit more meat on the bone in that last part of your statement, Cabinet Secretary, because the real issue here is the handover delays into emergency care outside hospitals.

I thank the Member for the welcome he’s given to the changes, and I’m grateful to him for the tone in which he’s put his questions to me. On the question of targets, I think I do disagree with him. The principal purpose of targets isn’t, actually, accountability; it’s service improvement. And it’s an important distinction. I understand the appeal of targets for scrutiny, absolutely, but really what they’re there to do is to make sure that we can achieve better outcomes for patients. And so, actually, if you apply that lens, you ask slightly different questions about what the best way is of achieving that.

On the point the Member makes about comparison with other UK countries, again, that’s not the principal purpose of the reform. If you look at Scotland and Northern Ireland in particular, they have a clinical outcome approach, and England, even though they don’t have that approach, do publish the data on cardiac arrest survival rates, and so, in a sense, the approach that we’re moving towards probably makes it easier to compare in that way. Also, the other UK nations have a median standard approach rather than a hard target approach. So, I think, in general terms, you will find, in effect, that it becomes easier to see what's happening in different parts of the UK. The group has drawn on evidence from other parts of the UK, as well as internationally, in looking at what the right approach needs to be. We won't be reporting on the eight-minute rule specifically, because we're embedding a new system, a new service, and so I think it's important that we report on the things that we expect the system to do.

On the specific points that the Member made in relation to defibrillators and CPR, as I mentioned in my statement, what I'm doing is I'm taking the Save a Life programme into the ambulance service, so that we can have a more integrated, joined-up system, if you like. I think that's really important. I was talking to the ambulance service about this last week, and it seems to me the right thing to do, so that all those initiatives can be aligned, which I think is really important. But alongside that, I've commissioned a very rapid review. Moving that over is a positive step, but actually the question I want to know the answer to is what more do we need to do, since the clinical judgement is so clear about the need to extend CPR and defibrillators. I'll have that advice by the end of June, and I'll obviously be happy to give an update to the Senedd at that point about what they recommend. I was able to have some CPR training this morning, and I found it incredibly useful. I would encourage Members to take it up—it's quite a low level of skill for the benefit that it confers. And, actually, having gone through some of the training, you can imagine how, in a real-life situation, it would be very stressful, so having had a little bit of background, I think, makes quite a big difference.

The point the Member made about clinical triage is very powerful. The team is already in place—the clinical triage team. I met some of them last week, and saw the work that they do at first hand. It's really, really impressive. Within a minute or two of the call handler having completed their initial call, if you're in the amber category, there'll be somebody reviewing the case note more or less in real time, and saying, 'Well, actually, we do think this person needs an ambulance', 'This person can probably be redirected', or, 'Somebody can call this person and help them manage'—so, a kind of bespoke response, which I think is really important. So, those resources are already in place—it's one of the consequences of the increase in funding that we've given the ambulance service, certainly last year, but I think over the last two years as well. So, to see it on the ground, happening already, is very helpful and very powerful.

You made an important point about handover pressures. I think I probably would agree with you that the biggest challenge that the ambulance service faces is, in a sense, outwith its ability to address in that way. If you look at the level of increase in red calls over recent years, the level of performance has been pretty stable. I think that's a service that is working well on its own terms, but faces challenges from outside, if you like. I'm sorry you were disappointed by the last part of the statement. The review isn't actually about handover times, so this is additional to the review. The guidance was issued last year, as you will know—reformed, changed guidance. There's an audit that will be undertaken by the NHS executive to see who's doing what, whether the guidance is being complied with, and, if not, why not. But I actually think there needs to be more action and more work in this space, which is why this clinically led group will task us to go further. I'd be very happy to be open with the Senedd about what they tell us and what we're doing about it.

I want to start my contribution by paying tribute to the committed ambulance service workforce. It's important for them to understand that the findings of this report, and the health committee's report, are not a reflection on their work—they do heroic work, every day of the year. I also want to thank the Cabinet Secretary for this statement this afternoon. I welcome it, and support the statement. Perhaps I should declare an interest: I used to work for the British Heart Foundation, so I've had CPR training. And I thought, in hearing that the Cabinet Secretary had had training, which song you were singing in your head when you were doing that CPR. 'Staying Alive' by the Bee Gees was the one we used.

Unmet targets have, of course, become a regrettable legacy of this Government's oversight of the health service. I've always advocated for the use of clear targets as a foundation for policy delivery. Indeed, I wish the Government was more proactive on this front, especially when it comes to issues such as child poverty, for instance. But these targets have to be based on more than good intentions alone. And when we get to the point where they are largely ornamental, as has clearly been the case with the red response time target over the past half a decade, it is right that we have this honest discussion about whether a change in direction is needed. So, while the Government must take its share of responsibility for the failure of achieving the current target, I do welcome the Cabinet Secretary’s willingness to reflect constructively on these past failings, rather than stubbornly persisting with sunk cost fallacies.

The problems in reaching the red target threshold aren’t necessarily related to WAST resourcing. As was confirmed by the heads of the ambulance service in the committee inquiry, the existing fleet of ambulances in Wales is largely sufficient to meet current levels of demand, rather it is chronic handover delays that are primarily responsible for the lengthy queues of ambulances that have become commonplace outside our hospitals, with over 26,000 hours having been lost in January as a result—the highest figure in a year. And this, in turn, not only is a reflection of a lack of bed capacity, which has declined precipitously over the past decade, it also points to the institutional and governance disconnect between in-hospital and out-of-hospital care. Does the Cabinet Secretary agree, therefore, with Plaid Cymru’s proposal to establish the role of a pan-Wales director for managing out-of-hospital care arrangements, in order to have greater national strategic leadership in expediting patient flow? Should there also be a more clearly defined role for the regional partnership boards to better identify where various health boards could collaborate on a more systematic basis to free up bed space?

We also know that the failure of this target is a microcosm of far wider existential issues with the health and care system, especially the hitherto unrealised need to instil far greater resilience in the social care sector, in particular. And the reports of numerous committees on the state of the budget rightly highlighted the Government’s inherent tendency for firefighting exercises at the expense of a concerted effort to shift resources to this end. In fairness to the Cabinet Secretary, I completely appreciate the acute political challenges that come from actually committing to this fundamental step change in how the health and social care system is funded. But given the demographic trends of the coming decades, we urgently need an honest national conversation about how we can sustainably move beyond the current vicious cycle of front-line services consuming an ever-increasing portion of the Welsh budget, which is delaying systematic investment in social and community care. So, in this spirit of putting the national interest ahead of party politics, would the Welsh Government be receptive to the idea of convening a cross-party working group to look at the future of the funding model for health and social care, so that these difficult discussions can be had outside the spotlight of political debate, which is, let’s face it, inherently short-termist in outlook?

Finally, I welcome the fact that the Cabinet Secretary has listened to the committee’s recommendations and welcomed the thorough research. And thanks to WAST for the briefing this morning, incidentally. The proposed pilot is needed and we welcome this. But what the research shows is the lack of community-level care, which the Cabinet Secretary did touch on. If the pilot is to succeed, then we need to see an increase in community resource, such as defibrillators and CPR champions in the community, and also in the respiratory field. So, what action is the Cabinet Secertary proposing to ensure this increased community level of resources to go hand in hand with the changes to the ambulance targets to give this pilot the best chance possible of succeeding?

I thank the Member for the welcome that he has given to the reforms. I would agree with his analysis, in the sense that the pressures from handover delays are a considerable part of the challenge that the ambulance service faces. I, myself, am not persuaded, as I think he obviously is, that it's a challenge around bed availability. I think it's a more systematic problem than that. I do think that the work that regional partnership boards have been doing, for example, at the end of last year in particular and the 50-day challenge has shown that, actually, where there is a clear systematic focus on interventions that we know make the biggest difference, then that can—. We've seen significantly different figures this year to the pattern of figures last year. So, I do think that's to be welcomed, but it clearly needs to be built upon.

I think one of the messages that has been consistent in the discussions that the Minister for social care and I have had with health boards and local authorities in the context of that initiative has been the very point the Member was making. Actually, the debate and discussion can’t simply be, nor is it, around solely questions of discharge. It’s about strengthening a set of community services that mean people don’t need access to hospital for their care in the first place. So, I think that broad analysis is absolutely correct. I think we’ve committed about £200 million over the course of the last year in order to seek to bring that about. But, clearly, that shift to the community level for services needs to be turbocharged, really. So, I’ll take this opportunity to say that, this year, we will be expecting all local health boards to declare the spend that they will be making on primary and community services, to share with us the definition that they use for that spend, so that we can have a Wales-wide systematic approach to that, and also to spell out their plans for increasing that percentage of their spend so that we can have a transparent discussion about that shift into community services, which I think we need to have.

One of the reasons that I was so keen to put the cardiopulmonary resuscitation and defibrillator programme into the ambulance service was to enable the reach of the ambulance service into the community to be extended in a way that I know they welcome as well, having discussed that with them last week. There is more that we need to do. The step I’ve taken that I’ve announced today is to commission—having taken that step of moving the programme over, then immediately to commission a review of what more we need to do, and that review will complete in the course of the next eight weeks. I want that in place before the new framework is implemented.

I was struck in the training session that I had in relation to CPR that, in addition to persuading and encouraging people to do that, having done that, there is then an app that people can sign up to called GoodSAM, which gives somebody an alert if somebody is experiencing a cardiac arrest within 500m of where they are, so that they can go to the scene if they’re available and help give that initial CPR. So, there is a huge network of people beneath the radar, really, which can provide some of that broader community response. That isn’t to say that we’re moving responsibilities for commissioned services to the community, it’s simply a recognition that, if someone is standing there next to you at the moment that you’ve had the attack or shortly after, the chances that you have of surviving are much greater if they know how to respond.

I’m grateful to you, Minister, for your statement this afternoon. The issue of out-of-hospital cardiac arrest, of course, is something I have some experience of. The reality is exactly as you’ve just outlined—we can have the best commissioned services available to anyone, but the reality is that lives are saved by individuals in the community, and we need to ensure that there are both the people in the community with the training, but also the defibrillators that are maintained in the community as well. I’d like to see the statement go much further, in fact, to ensure that we do have a network of people and defibrillators across the whole of the country, and I’d appreciate the opportunity to meet with you to discuss that at some point.

In terms of the wider issues about ambulance response times, the targets you’ve described, I’ve no issue with anything you’ve said in your statement this afternoon, but I do believe we need to go much further and have a more holistic conversation about this. Because over the last few years, we’ve seen the centralisation of services. In my own constituency in Blaenau Gwent, we’ve seen services moved to the Grange, we’ve also seen the announcement of the movement of stroke services from Prince Charles down to the Royal Glamorgan. So, you’ve got areas around the Heads of the Valleys and south Powys in Breconshire where you’ve got significant journey times to these specialist care centres. That means that we need an ambulance service that not only arrives on time, in the way that you’ve described this afternoon, but has the capacity to serve a different pattern of acute treatment centres. That is where we need to have a real debate, so that we don’t just have the targets, we don’t just have the accountability frameworks, and I do agree with what has already been said on that, but we also have the service that means that people know that they can trust and rely on an ambulance arriving in time to save a life and to transport a patient to the nearest appropriate treatment centre.

I thank Alun Davies for that, and I approach the topic with some diffidence in light of his experience, but I would be very happy to meet with him. Now is a good time for doing that, because, although he wanted the statement to go further, I hope that my having commissioned an immediate review with a very, very rapid turnaround time will give him some reassurance of my commitment. And I would be very happy to meet with him to discuss his experience and his reflections more broadly. 

To the point he makes about the configuration of services, he is aware, obviously, as we all are, that what we are trying to do is, across the health service, strike a balance between a concentration of expertise that enables the best possible treatment for those in an acute situation, but he makes a very fair point that the flipside of that is the availability of transport to get you to that acute centre quickly. And the theme, if you like, behind the reforms here is: how can we make sure that we are deploying the resource that we have to the most urgent need as quickly as possible; and, on the other hand, how can we free up that resource that is held outside hospitals? I think Mabon ap Gwynfor gave an idea of the number of hours lost, if you like, to the ambulance service.

And it isn't a shortage of ambulances, it is not a shortage of staff, it's the ability to release that capacity to make the kind of journey that he was referring to. So, I absolutely agree with that and, having seen some of that at first-hand last week, in spending part of the day with an ambulance crew on its shift, going to visit patients and seeing how the service works in practice, firstly, it was incredibly inspiring, and, secondly, you could understand some of the challenges. It's conceivable that people go on shift, see a patient and then spend the rest of their shift held up outside a hospital, and none of us wants to see that. It's not good for the patient, it's not good for the staff, it's not good for the service overall. And that's why I'm determined, with this clinically led taskforce, that we'll see what we can do to go further, and I'll be very happy to share that information with the Senedd.

Sorry, I didn't think you were calling me. First of all, thank you, Cabinet Secretary. I have to say that your statement was actually quite enlightening and that you are now prepared to look, where it isn't working, at how we can do things better. We all have examples, Dirprwy Lywydd, about people just lying for hours waiting for ambulances, only to find that, when they arrive at hospital, they're then in ambulances for quite some time and then there are delays, and they're hanging around in corridors, and our ambulance drivers and paramedics are quite stressed throughout all of this. 

Progress is being made, which is really good. I have to pay tribute to the chief executive of the Welsh Ambulance Services University NHS Trust, Jason. They are trying their absolute best. But as he has said himself, something like one in 10 patients are subject to some level of moderate or severe harm or death associated with a response delay or a handover delay. I've known my own constituents left for hours—in fact, one for two whole days with a broken hip. Whilst I appreciate that WAST is pursuing several positive changes, I have outlined that the waiting time for non-red-category patients can be inhumane. So, what discussions have you had with WAST about how you really do speed up the process? There's the call centre, and how they prioritise, then there's getting the ambulance or paramedic to the patient, then there's getting that patient to the hospital and then there are delays at the hospital. I know of some ambulance drivers who have told me that they've gone home only to come back eight hours later and find the same patient waiting in an ambulance. That is unacceptable.

Thank you, Janet. 

I think the Member's question was about what the ambulance service is doing to reform. So, my reflections on the ambulance service are that it is a service that embraces the need for new ways of working and has demonstrated a good level of commitment to innovation, and I saw that at first-hand last week. So, whether it's the employment of more advanced practitioner paramedics who are able to provide more support at the scene, or whether it's the rapid clinical triage team, who are, as I was saying, within minutes of that initial call, looking at the case notes, identifying the right course of action for that individual patient. And now, with the Save a Life Cymru programme going into the ambulance service, I'm confident that there'll be more innovation in that space as well.

One of the challenges that we have in the current arrangements, which the Member spoke about, is that the red category, which is obviously the most urgent category, extends on the one hand to cardiac arrest and the most severe and time critical to what can be, for some patients, comparatively minor examples of breathlessness—serious from their point of view, obviously, but things that are related to flu over the winter, which are less in need of that level of urgency. Around 34 per cent, more than a third, of red calls are in that category. They get an ambulance, and they get an ambulance within the eight-minute target, but they generally don't need admission to hospital.

So, the real question is, how do we—. The review engages with that, and the changes address it. How can we make sure that ambulances go to the balance of that 70 per cent who urgently need that ambulance? And then how can we make sure that, if you are in the amber category and you get your clinical triage quickly, so that there's an immediate bespoke response to you—. It may be an ambulance, it may be hospital admission, it may well be a range of other things.

Cabinet Secretary, I think it is really good that you were able to accompany that ambulance crew in carrying out their duties, because it gives you a very good practical understanding of the everyday issues that they face. I recently met with ambulance staff who are also representatives of the GMB Union in my office, and they were talking to me about their experience and concerns at the Grange hospital, where they are routinely held up for lengthy periods of time, which is very frustrating for them and their patients. Then, they were relating that to the obvious consequence of not being able to respond to calls as a service in as timely a manner that they wish to do. They are very committed staff who want to provide a top-quality service.

I know you are aware of these issues at the Grange hospital, but they are issues that come to me week in, week out in my postbag, Cabinet Secretary, from concerned constituents who are relaying the issues and problems that they face, and that their families have faced. I wonder if you might meet, Cabinet Secretary, with the ambulance staff and the GMB representatives to allow them to again relay their practical experience of the problems at the Grange hospital and how they think those problems could be dealt with, again using their practical experience.

I thank John Griffiths for that. Yes, I would be very, very happy to meet, as you suggest. My reflections on my experience last week—. We were at the Grange at one point and there were, I think, 12 ambulances waiting outside at that point in time. You could see in a very vivid way what that means, both from a patient point of view but also from a staff point of view. It’s quite a lot of staff time that is being held up outside a hospital as well, so that’s not good for patients, staff or the service overall.

My reflections on it were that the staff were very reasonable and very uncomplaining about what was a very challenging situation—so, I am very grateful to them for that—and a recognition that the challenges lie beyond their ability immediately in that situation to address. So, it’s a systemic challenge. Today’s statement was about the review, but I recognise that the handover question is fundamental to it, really. So, I hope that the fact that I have established that clinically led task force will give the Member some reassurance that I absolutely see that the two things are interlinked, and that where we need to go further, as I’m sure we do, I will be happy to do that.

And finally, Lesley Griffiths.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your oral statement. This is an issue that affects many of my constituents. The review of the ambulance response target, as Russell George pointed out, is over 50 years old—that target—and is long overdue. The focus has to be on clinical outcomes and not targets. Having clinicians in control rooms, triaging those calls and making sure that harm is reduced, by each call having an individual tailored response, I think is absolutely essential.

A pan-Wales system is also required. So, the rights system that works in my constituency of Wrexham must work in every part of Wales, because, ultimately, a patient is a patient wherever they are. It is not just the Welsh ambulance service, I strongly believe, that should carry all of the risks and pressure. I think that that needs to be much more levelled out across the ambulance service, emergency departments and also the health boards. I think that it’s really important that the Welsh Government ensures that the correct levers are in place. You just referred to the staff that you met last week. Ultimately, they go in, wanting to do their very best, and you can only imagine the impact that those ambulances waiting outside hospitals have. So, could you please outline how the proposed changes that you've set out in your statement will focus on a whole system right across Wales?

I thank Lesley Griffiths for that. I do understand that Ministers changing targets attracts criticism sometimes, so I'm grateful to Members for the way in which the statement's been responded to today. At the end of the day, I'm less concerned about that than making sure that we have the right arrangements in place that will deliver the best possible outcomes. That's the sole criterion that we should apply to these questions, as the review panel itself has recognised.

I think, in a way, the point the Member makes about carrying risk is a very important way of looking at this. What, I think, we've seen in practice is that the ambulance service has actually chosen to carry more of that risk itself in a way that is very helpful for the system overall, so it doesn't say to a patient, 'We can't help you', it will say to a patient, 'Someone will call you back; they will redirect you.' So, there's a relationship between the patient and the health service, which, I think, must be incredibly reassuring, if you are that patient looking for support. So, I think that's a new way of working, and that's what's behind the fact they've recruited the additional advanced practitioner paramedics, and, crucially, recruited that clinical team, so that there's clinical ownership, if you like, within the ambulance service, of that patient who has made a call. I think that's a very big shift, actually.

The system question, I think, is a very important question. We've touched already on some of the interrelationships between handover delays and the need for more community provision. Actually, putting the Save a Life service into the ambulance service, I think, extends that community provision, which is what we want to see, but I think there is more that we need to do to shift resources into community-level provision wherever we can, so that there's a more robust response available. And I think, as well, I was struck by the growth, if you like, across the NHS, of remote clinical triage, whether it's through the ambulance service or through regional arrangements between health boards, and I think there is something that we need to do to help the public navigate that, so they understand how the health service is able to respond remotely to some of their needs, where that's appropriate.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary.

Item 5 is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care on escalation and intervention arrangements in NHS Wales. I call on the Cabinet Secretary to make the statement—Jeremy Miles.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. Last November, I updated the Senedd on the escalation and intervention arrangements for each of the NHS organisations in Wales. Today, I am providing a further update to Senedd Members after carefully assessing the quality, service performance and financial management of every NHS organisation in Wales. We have robust arrangements in place to do this at least twice a year. This process helps us to determine whether any organisations need additional support to improve the services that they provide. This work is an important part of my role as Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care. This includes ensuring that the health service delivers the best possible care and the best possible outcomes for people in Wales.

Over the last 18 months, the Government, the public and all of us within this Siambr have been focusing intensely on planned care waiting times. The most recent figures, published two weeks ago, show an improving position. Long waits are falling, the overall size of the waiting list is starting to come down and performance against the cancer target is steadily getting better. All of this is positive. These figures demonstrate that the support provided to health boards through the escalation framework is starting to have an impact. Having said that, there is still a long way to go yet. I want to put on record my thanks to all the NHS staff who are working hard to make a difference, often under very pressured circumstances. The outcomes of the latest escalation and intervention decisions recognises this hard work and the increasing confidence around systems and processes across Wales.

I want to start by sharing the good news. In November, I de-escalated the child and adolescent mental health service in Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board from level 4 to level 3. I also indicated that further work would be undertaken with the health board to agree the sustainable improvements needed before we could consider full de-escalation arrangements. I'm pleased to say that these improvements have been sustained since November. And I can today de-escalate the service to level 1 arrangements. Hywel Dda and Swansea bay university health boards have also met the CAMHS de-escalation performance criteria for the last three months. This means that their services can now be de-escalated from level 4 to level 3.

Cwm Taf Morgannwg, Hywel Dda and Swansea bay university health boards have all been making good progress with their planned care recovery programmes. They've got strong plans for the rest of this year, which will mean they will eliminate long waits in almost all specialties. In recognition of this progress, I have de-escalated planned care performance in each of these three health boards from level 4 to level 3. Cancer performance is also starting to improve in Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board. It has met the de-escalation performance criteria for the last three months for cancer, so I have de-escalated their cancer services from level 4 to level 3. In each of these cases, a level 3 escalation means health boards will remain subject to ongoing monitoring and scrutiny, and intervention if necessary, from the NHS executive.

In January of last year, Hywel Dda University Health Board was facing significant challenges in relation to finance and planning, which were impacting on performance. It was subsequently escalated to level 4. Since then, it has made considerable improvements related to its governance and leadership. The appointment of a new chair, chief executive and deputy chief executive has brought new stability and direction to the board. The move towards an operational care group structure has improved the governance and decision making. So, I have decided to de-escalate the health board for governance and leadership to level 3.

Unfortunately, the very real improvements that we have seen across child and adolescent mental health services, planned care and cancer have not been reflected in urgent and emergency care. I am not able to de-escalate urgent and emergency care at any of the health boards. The NHS executive's six goals programme, its assurance and quality and safety teams will continue to work closely with these health boards. This includes on-site visits, demand and capacity planning and actions to improve hospital flow.

Dirprwy Lywydd, no changes are being made to the escalation status of Aneurin Bevan University Health Board, which remains at level 4 for finance, strategy and planning and at level 3 for performance and outcomes related to urgent and emergency care at the Grange University Hospital emergency department. Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board remains at the highest level of escalation, at level 5 or, in effect, in special measures. However, as I noted last week, there has been a significant amount of progress. My officials will be working very closely with Powys Teaching Health Board in relation to its finance, strategy and planning. However, its escalation status remains unchanged from November.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I now turn to Cardiff and Vale University Health Board. It is reporting a growing financial deficit that will not be addressed without additional intervention and support. I have taken the decision, therefore, to escalate the health board to level 4 for finance, strategy and planning. This means the NHS executive will assess and provide the additional intervention and support required above current arrangements to deliver the required improvements.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I'm also escalating Digital Health and Care Wales to level 3 for performance and outcomes related to the delivery of major programmes. I am making this decision because of serious concerns about the organisation's ability to effectively deliver a number of major programmes. It is vital the NHS has confidence in DHCW to deliver our digital transformation, so we will work with them to ensure they are able to make the required improvements. Level 3 is the first stage of significant intervention and support in an organisation. In this case, we will be engaging additional digital expertise to work alongside the Welsh Government and DHCW to review a set of agreed milestones and progress against the national programmes DHCW is responsible for delivering. The expert will also provide an independent assessment of DHCW’s ability to deliver and what further support it may need in the short to medium term. We will closely monitor the progress of DHCW over the course of the next few months. There will be a further opportunity to review the progress made and its escalation status at the next tripartite meeting in June.

There are no changes to the escalation levels of the other NHS trusts and special health authorities. Dirprwy Lywydd, these decisions have not been taken lightly. When implemented correctly, escalation, intervention and support can—and, in my experience, do—have a sustained impact on an organisation and the care and services it provides to the public. This is the best way to support NHS organisations to improve the quality of service and care that people receive, and, ultimately, their outcomes. All the changes I have announced today will now be published on the Welsh Government website. Diolch yn fawr. 

Can I thank the Cabinet Secretary for his statement? While it's, I think, right to acknowledge the small areas of progress, the broader picture, of course, remains deeply concerning. Every single health board in Wales remains in some form of intervention and the Welsh Government has had to escalate Cardiff and the Vale health board to level 4 due to a worsening financial crisis, and Betsi Cadwaladr remains at the highest level of escalation and in special measures.

Towards the end of your statement there, Cabinet Secretary, you referred to the fact that intervention and support can and do have a sustained impact. Yet Betsi Cadwaladr has been largely in special measures for almost a decade, and waiting times have more than doubled in that time. So, can you explain, tell us, how the Welsh Government can continue to say that special measures are working? Isn't that an example where it's not the case? Betsi Cadwaladr is responsible for 91 per cent of three-year waits in Wales, and I wonder if the Cabinet Secretary can tell us when he expects special measures to be lifted in all areas at the health board, and set out a road map and timetable in that regard.

The Cabinet Secretary points to a slight improvement in waiting times, but it's clear that, overall, the backlog remains at unacceptable levels. The number of patients waiting for two years remains in the tens of thousands, and that's with Welsh Government intervention. So, when can we expect the two-year waits to be anywhere near in line with the other nations of the UK? 

Cancer performance in Cwm Taf Morgannwg has improved but other areas remain critically behind targets. I wonder if the Cabinet Secretary could tell us what urgent action has been undertaken to improve cancer diagnosis and treatment times across all health boards. This is a significant area of concern. 

Cardiff and the Vale health board has been escalated to level 4 for finance strategy and planning, and I wonder if the Cabinet Secretary could talk to the scale of the deficit and explain how it's been allowed to deteriorate so badly, given the fact that it is in that level of escalation already. 

Cabinet Secretary, you referred to Powys Teaching Health Board remaining in some financial difficulty, and I wonder what recognition you have of the difference between Powys health board and other health boards across Wales, because, of course, Powys does not have any district general hospitals of its own. And I wonder what's your assessment of that in terms of how more difficult it is for them to manage their deficit, given the fact that they have to use cross-border care for the provision for people within the health board area. 

The Welsh Government has said that it's had to escalate—. You've said, rather, that you've had to escalate Digital Health and Care Wales to level 3 over its failure to deliver major programmes. Given the importance of digital transformation in the Welsh NHS and the need to transform services as quickly as possible, what is your assessment of there being a delay therefore in transforming services in the way that needs to happen and that you would like to see? 

And finally, you refer to the role that the NHS executive has and will be playing in regard to the assessment and provision of additional intervention. But, given that all health boards in Wales still remain in special measures, some with no end in sight, I would say to you, my last question is: is it time that you considered that the NHS executive perhaps lacks the teeth it needs to deliver on its objectives?

I thank Russell George for those questions. He makes a comparison with other parts of the UK—I'm not sure that's the right lens through which to see this, because, actually, this is about providing the level of support that is required for organisations that are failing to meet their objectives. But, you know, actually, all integrated care boards in England are in some form of escalation, and I think that 180 out of the 205 trusts are in some form of escalation. So, this is of no comfort to me personally, and it won't be to him, but this is not a challenge that is unique to Wales, and that may reflect the level of demand and the pressure of resources on the NHS in all parts of the UK over the last 14 years.

He made a number of points in relation to Betsi Cadwaladr specifically. Obviously, we had an opportunity, in the Chamber last week, to explore in some detail the improvements in relation to governance in particular, and leadership and quality and safety, but I was very clear in my statement last week that, in relation to performance, there is a long way yet to go; the board itself would say the same to you, as I'm sure they have.

I was asked last week whether I would set out a time point at which I expect special measures to be lifted. Again, I'm not prepared to do that. I'm not prepared to put an artificial time frame in place. I understand that's frustrating for people; it's absolutely frustrating for me. But, at the end of the day, the critical thing is that support is provided to the health board in relation to the challenges that it faces. And, actually, as I was indicating last week, there definitely have been areas of improvement. I will de-escalate aspects of improvement when they have met the objectives, and that's true of all health boards in Wales. I think it's really important that that is the approach that is taken, because that is what gives people confidence, I hope, that there is a robust plan in place.

He made a point in relation to waiting times. What I want to see is that the small changes that we saw in the figures published last month are built upon rapidly over the course of the coming months. The next figures will be published on 20 March, and they're monthly after that, as you know. So, I very much hope that we will see those longest waits coming down, and continuing to come down, over the months ahead. That's certainly the challenge, the task, that I have set to the NHS. That's the purpose of the funding. It isn't simply about funding. I want to be very, very clear about that: it cannot simply be about funding; it has to be about new ways of delivering services. That is absolutely fundamental to being able to put the NHS on a sustainable footing. So, yes, there is a need for some extra resource, and we are providing that, but, actually, what's required is to deliver services differently, and I think there's a recognition of that.

He makes an important point in relation to cancer. I think there are challenges in terms of the clarity of the landscape, which I've acknowledged previously in the Chamber, and I've set out the plan that I have to get to grips with that, through the cancer leadership board, through a streamlining of the various initiatives in this space, and making sure that they're giving clear direction to the system. But it isn't all about leadership and it isn't all about that clarity. In terms of the service resilience itself, there are challenges in some diagnostic areas and some workforce areas. Fundamentally, I think there needs to be a closer alignment to the cancer pathways that we know are the most effective way of delivering for patients in those circumstances. We heard in the Chamber earlier, in First Minister's questions, there is very, very good practice in relation to cancer in parts of the service in Wales, whether that's to do with particular tumour sites, particular parts of the NHS. The challenge, obviously, is to make sure that's a consistent level of provision across the system.

The Member asked me in relation to Cardiff and Vale University Health Board, and the frustration in his question is one that I share. There is a growing financial deficit at this stage of the financial year, which is obviously not welcome, and we are working with the health board to understand the drivers for that and, obviously, to prevent it from getting worse. But our judgment is that the health board will need more intervention from us in order to be able to address that adequately, which is why I've obviously escalated further.

I do recognise the point that he makes, that Powys is in a different situation in not having a district general hospital, and commissioning services from elsewhere. However, you could also make the argument that it faces fewer risks in terms of the management of a hospital, which brings its own complexity and exposure. So, it is particular. From a strategy, planning and financial point of view, I think there are advantages and disadvantages to that. The most important thing, of course, is that residents in Powys have access to care on an equal basis with other parts of Wales.

In relation to the escalation of DHCW, it's a very specific escalation on projects. There's a lot of work happening in the system, whether it's in relation to the NHS app, in relation to the maternity app, in relation to a plethora of other projects, which are on track and we're confident we will be hitting the milestones that have been set, but I think the organisation generally needs some support on some of the major projects. I think the lack of capital availability has been a particular challenge in this space, as I'm sure the Member would recognise.

Finally, in relation to the NHS executive, it is a new organisation. It's an organisation that's in its early stages, and it is important for us to keep looking at whether we have the right structure, the right approach, and that's something the NHS executive is currently doing, and we're working with it in relation to that. 

Thank you to the Cabinet Secretary for that update. The progress in some areas is to be welcomed, but as I mentioned in responding to the statement on Betsi Cadwaladr health board last week, what is missing in this statement is any plan or timetable to actually reach a satisfactory situation, because despite the glimmers of hope that the Cabinet Secretary referred to, we're still in a situation where every one of the seven local health boards are in some sort of special measures, with no sign that this is to change anytime soon. This reflects the inescapable truth that, under the leadership of this Government, what should be exceptional has become the norm. Failing services have been normalised, and it's the people of Wales who are paying the price for long waiting times, for failure to access treatments, a shortage of appointments, as well as a number of other problems. The Government must therefore take responsibility for its role in these failings, but perhaps we must also look at the appropriateness of the process of introducing special measures as the main tool in driving improvement.

Last year, Plaid Cymru published its plan for governance reforms in the NHS, which was informed by interviews with several senior leaders currently working in the health system. One of the most resounding and consistent messages we heard was a lack of confidence in the escalation and intervention arrangements, that it is insufficiently transparent from an accountability perspective, and that the goal posts keep moving in terms of the perceived importance of specific issues, which is often swayed by political considerations rather than more objective criteria. Now that the Cabinet Secretary has had the opportunity to get his feet under the table as Cabinet Secretary for health, can he confirm whether he's heard similar noises from his conversations with senior NHS leaders?

The aforementioned lack of confidence in the arrangements is also indicative of shortcomings in performance and quality information on the Welsh NHS, which, to quote our interviewees, is considered 'completely opaque', and has, 'no rating for quality at all'. Can you explain why this is the case, and do you accept that it is creating an unhelpful degree of uncertainty amongst NHS leaders as to the Government's vision for improving standards?

It was frustrating, to say the least, to hear that Digital Health and Care Wales is to be escalated to level 3. Eight months ago, the First Minister was campaigning for a Labour UK Government, holding a placard calling for the modernisation of the NHS. The irony wasn't lost on any of us. But where is that partnership in power? The Cabinet Secretary complained of a lack of capital funds to support this, but the Government is in a position to demand the UK Government to assist in this regard, so where is that partnership? When can we see this deliver? 

Where is the leadership to ensure the full utilisation of digital architecture in our NHS? Last week, I had a meeting with OneLondon, an organisation that has managed to bring their primary and secondary care services together with common digital frameworks, saving not only tens of millions of pounds, but also significantly improving outcomes for Londoners. And I also had a meeting with the Swedish digital health unit, who are rolling out digitisation, ensuring urban and rural residents benefit from a fully integrated digital architecture. So, why is it that Wales is so far behind the curve? And what is this Government's vision for digitisation?

Finally, you've increased Cardiff and Vale to level 4 for finance, saying that they have a growing deficit needing additional intervention and support, but you didn't explain what this additional intervention and support will look like. So, I wonder if the Cabinet Secretary can elaborate on this and explain what this will look like. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

I thank Mabon ap Gwynfor for those questions. But there is a plan. There is a plan for supporting organisations to come out of special measures and escalation, and it's the range of interventions that we provide, the range of support, the direct intervention that the NHS executive makes where there are particular challenges, and it's really important that these things are transparent in the way that he was suggesting in his question.

Just on his point about the Plaid Cymru report, I did read it very carefully at the time, and I thought it was—. Actually, I was grateful to him for the way it very closely echoed the speech that I'd given three weeks before, about some of the things that we needed to change in the NHS. So, I welcomed the shared analysis that he latterly had reached.

I think the point about transparency is an important point. But, in relation to this specifically, I wonder whether it's a little outdated at this point, because since quite a number of those criticisms have been made in the past, we have published the guidelines and the steps that we require in order to justify escalation, and one of the challenges he will have picked up, I think, is that the clarity about de-escalation hasn't been clear in the past, but that is now clear. It's all published. It's available for him and others to scrutinise us, and also health boards. I think it has been a challenge in the past. I don't think it's as much of a challenge today, given that we have been very clear about what has been published, as are we in relation to health board performance.

We've now moved to publishing on a quarterly basis, at a health board level, performance against a range of data, and I've been absolutely categorical in the planning guidance, which I issued to the NHS before Christmas, about the requirements that we have as a Government of them in relation to the enabling actions to deliver the Government's priorities. I will be monitoring the current baseline, the performance over the course of the year, and I'll be publishing that information, so that people are able to assess which health boards are meeting which objectives. I think it's important that there is a level of public debate and scrutiny of that, and so I'll be making that information available.

I'm grateful to the Minister, again, for his statement. He will be aware that many of us brought issues around primary care in the Aneurin Bevan area to him over the last few months, and there's been a real crisis in the availability of primary care services for my constituents. I found it very, very difficult to pin down accountability for that and how we could resolve those matters. And that means that we've got a real issue here, and in how we govern, about how Members here and others are able to focus accountability. But I also think that we need to go further than that, and further than perhaps he has gone in his statement this afternoon.

It's been a decade and a half or so since the health boards were created, and I very much supported Edwina Hart when she was doing that. I thought it was an improvement and an improved service. But what we don't do in Wales, and we do very badly, in fact, in our governance, is that we don't take the same approach as they do across the border in England with the quinquennial review process, where departments and structures of governance are reviewed on a regular basis about how they are delivering and how services are being provided. What we've done here, in a somewhat ad hoc way, has been to create partnerships and boards and committees and joint committees and the rest of it, but we haven't had a system-wide review, in my experience, that actually looks at how our governance is working and how efficiently we deliver services. We've focused very much on individual services and individual targets, but what we haven't done is look at the system. And rather than continue the process of escalation here and there, what I would like to see the Government doing is to adopt this quinquennial review process—

You need to conclude now, Alun, please.

—and look at the system-wide delivery of services.

Well, I think Alun Davies makes an interesting point. I think we share—. [Laughter.] I think he perceives that as the kiss of death from a ministerial response. But, seriously, I think we do share the view that Wales is overly complex in terms of its governance structures in a range of different ways. I'm absolutely of that view myself. The approach that the Government will take on a widespread basis to governance questions is not for me. However, in the context of the NHS specifically, the accountability review that we undertook last year has told us some very important things about governance in the NHS and the need for clarity, which we are delivering on over these months, about the respective roles, as we were touching on earlier, of the NHS executive, and the clarity in planning expectations of the service. Those are important things.

I am not, myself, drawn to questions of structural reform. I know the Member himself will have had some experience of this. I think it can attract a lot of energy, without always providing that scope for performance improvement. I think where we are today, the critical thing is that we drive improved performance in the NHS. I do, however, think that there are questions where governance and accountability touch on performance. I would absolutely accept that. So, I think you will hear me say more in the weeks ahead about how we approach regional delivery of services in Wales, because I think, actually, there is more that needs to be done on that level to address resilience and improved patient outcomes. And there's a question that comes in that space about governance as well, and accountability.

We know, and it's been mentioned so many times here, about how the Betsi Cadwaladr health board has been in special measures, technically under your—and the other Ministers' previously—governance, for 10 years. And it's been at this level 5 now, again, since February 2023. As has been mentioned by my colleague Russ George, four further health boards hold escalation status 4. These include Hywel Dda, for practically everything in terms of failings, and Swansea Bay for finance, strategy, planning and for performance and outcomes, and due to financial, operational and staffing pressures. I understand the former health Minister, now our First Minister, accepted the recommendations from Welsh Government officials that there should not be a change to the escalation status of these organisations. I just wonder whether there needs to be another system in progress. Just leaving health boards in special measures or in escalated status isn't the way forward. Do you agree with me, Cabinet Secretary, that there should be more frequent revisions of the escalation status? I've found, over the years that the Betsi board have been in special measures, in and out, as they have, that it's quite demoralising for a lot of the front-line staff, and they are quick to get out of this special measure place. Our patients deserve better. Our staff deserve better. So, what can you do now, as the health Cabinet Secretary, to ensure that the improvements that are needed, the measures that are needed, the works that are required are put in place, so that these health boards can have a period of some time without being in an escalation process? Thank you.

I'm not sure I do agree with the Member, actually. I don't think that it is right to say that we are leaving health boards in special measures. I made a statement today that has announced changes in relation to five health boards and special health authorities, and so this is something that is kept under regular review, and actually this happens twice a year. So, there's a balance to be struck. You want a system that is not constantly adjusting special measures, because it needs time to respond to the intervention that being in escalation brings. Equally, I think she makes a fair point; you don't want to be in escalation for longer than is necessary. I actually think that in terms of the cycle of review, the balance that we have is the right balance. I recognise that in a health board like Betsi Cadwaladr, which has been in escalation for some time, clearly staff will find that challenging. That's why getting the right level of support in is so important.

I've got two questions. First, I wonder if you could say a little bit more about Cardiff and Vale health board. It's obviously very disappointing that they have had to escalate on financial strategy and planning. There are particular financial challenges of running an often outstanding secondary and tertiary care service from such an outdated building. As we saw in Saving Lives in Cardiff, the clinical excellence was completely at variance with such a difficult set of buildings. It's not good for staff, it's not good for patients or relatives, and although there's been some chink of light on capital funding coming via the UK Government, it is only a chink of light, and I wondered if there's anything positive that we can possibly pursue to start rebuilding the Heath on the same site. I can't see any other alternative, given our overcrowded Cardiff.

Secondly, Digital Health and Care Wales: front-line staff are desperate to have the digital systems that will enable them to stop doing the things that the computer will do better, and I just wondered if there's anything more you can say on how we're actually going to get to where we need to be.

In relation to the Member’s points about Cardiff and Vale specifically, there is a monthly arrangement, obviously, with each health board, where the financial position is monitored, and it was clear as we reached the end of last year that the health board’s deficit would not be in line with expectations, and there were some questions around some of the savings that they had planned to make not being capable of being delivered. So, in the weeks since then, there’s been ongoing discussion, obviously, between Welsh Government officials and the health board to understand the drivers of that what might be done to address it, and the consequence of those discussions is seen in today’s announcement.

I think the Member makes a fair point in relation to capital investment. The next year’s capital budget for the health service will be significantly larger than it has been for many, many years, and I absolutely welcome that wholeheartedly. It will enable us to make better decisions and more supportive investment decisions around premises but also digital infrastructure and other medical and clinical infrastructure as well, which clearly we all want to see.

What I would say, though, is that the longer term capital prospects I think are a little less positive. I think I infer that from what we hear the UK Government saying more generally. My own analysis is that the level of capital investment that the service needs in order to make up for the lack of availability on a UK-wide level of capital investment is orders of magnitude larger than the sums we’ll be able to make available next year. I think that’s, in a sense, not surprising, but it also paints a picture about the scale of the challenge.

I just want to say in relation to DHCW’s escalation that it is a specific escalation. There are a range of projects that my colleague Sarah Murphy is responsible for delivering with DHCW in relation to the national architecture, which is the underpinning of digital transformation in the health service. We are hoping to make real progress on that over the course of this year to set out the direction of travel in relation to the electronic health record that ties the health service together, but also interventions on the NHS app. We’re very confident about where we are with the NHS app. I’m not going to say more about it today, but there will be more to say in the weeks and months ahead. That will transform the relationship between the patient and the NHS as well.

There is definitely good progress in specific interventions in the reforms that we’ve asked for. The challenge the Member poses is a fair challenge about the scale of the transformation required in the health service, which is very significant. We are very alive to that as Ministers and absolutely committed as a Government to bringing about that transformation as quickly as we can.

And finally, Lee Waters.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm pleased to see that Digital Health and Care Wales has had its status escalated. I'm very concerned about the state of the organisation. I've just been reading its most recent board papers, and its heat map risk register has almost no green and is largely red with amber. Would the health Secretary confirm that most of the projects they're working on are in trouble?

I'm pleased that he is meeting monthly with the chair and the chief executive, and he's announced today that the Government are appointing an independent assessment of Digital Health and Care Wales's ability to deliver and what further support it may need in the short to medium term. Can I ask him about the Welsh Government's ability to deliver support? Is there sufficient capacity and capability at the Welsh Government and NHS executive level to provide the level of support and challenge that, clearly, is needed in Digital Health and Care Wales? Can I also ask him about the relationship with the health boards? Because we shouldn't let them off the hook and put all the blame on DHCW either. There is clearly a disconnect here between what's going on at the health board level and at the national level.

And then, finally, I think it's worth pointing out that these aren't new. Back in 2018, the auditor general found that the previous body, which is basically the same body with a different name, the NHS Wales informatics service, was guilty of a pattern of being overly positive in reporting its progress. The Public Accounts Committee found several examples of this, and that was in 2018. It feels like we're feeling the same again, because, again, when you read their board reports, this is not an organisation that feels as if it's on the cusp of significant escalation by the Welsh Government. There's something not right and not working well. 

The purpose of putting DHCW into escalation—it's the first time we've put a special health authority into escalation at all—is to be able to provide that response, some of which he outlined in his question to me. The decision, obviously, is not taken lightly, nor is it ever taken lightly in relation to any escalation, and it relates to, I think it might be fair to say, the speed and effectiveness of digital implementation across a range of major programmes and delivery issues as well in relation to some of the commissioned projects. I would recognise the point the Member makes about appropriate identification of risk and RAG rating. But that is the purpose of the escalation.

To the point that the Member makes about expertise and capacity, clearly there is a capacity within the NHS executive, but the reason I've spelled out in the statement that we will bring external expertise to bear on the analysis is because we want to make sure there's an independent expert technology view of where the organisation is and what support it specifically needs in order to improve, which is, obviously, what we want to see.

I think the Member makes a very fair point about the relationship between Digital Health and Care Wales and the local health boards. This is absolutely not to say that challenges in delivering a number of programmes are to be laid entirely at the door of DHCW. That is certainly not the case, and we need to develop out of this experience a way of working between the health boards and DHCW where there is a sense of shared agenda around the digital transformation that's required. My own reflection on one of the challenges in that space has been that, in the absence of a clear architecture, it isn't entirely possible to describe the destination that we are working to. That allows far too much flexibility in the system in the meantime and then a lack of clarity. That's why getting that architecture in place urgently is an important contributor to the solution overall.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

Item 6 is the Social Care Wales (Specification of Social Care Workers) (Registration) (Amendment) Regulations 2025. I call on the Minister for Children and Social Care to move the motion. Dawn Bowden.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. I move the motion. The statutory instrument before you today amends the existing regulations under the Regulation and Inspection of Social Care (Wales) Act 2016.

These amending regulations are a further step towards realising our goals to professionalise the social care workforce, to continue to raise the quality of care and to ensure that workers get the support and recognition that they deserve. Registration recognises the professional responsibility of social care workers who provide vital care and support to people in our communities. These regulations will instruct the workforce regulator, Social Care Wales, to open up a new section of the workforce register to allow employees and workers in special school residential services to register with Social Care Wales. If passed today, they will come into force on 1 April and this allows an interim period of nearly 18 months before 30 September 2026, when registered providers of special school residential services will only be able to take on workers if they are registered with Social Care Wales.

Registration helps to provide greater safeguards for those who use these services so that they can be confident, as can their families and friends, that the social care workers delivering their care and support are appropriately qualified and can be held to account against the code of professional practice set out by Social Care Wales. Social Care Wales has worked and continues to work extensively with the sector in order to support these workers to register by the deadline in September 2026. Diolch yn fawr.

Minister, there are no other speakers. Do you wish to add anything else?

Nothing further.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? There's no objection. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Item 7 is the Welsh Elections Information Platform Regulations 2025. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government to move the motion—Jayne Bryant.

Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. I move the motion to approve the Welsh Elections Information Platform Regulations 2025. The regulations make provision for the Welsh Ministers' duty to provide for a Welsh elections information platform under section 26 of the Elections and Elected Bodies (Wales) Act 2024. The regulations set out the information that should be on the platform and confer responsibility on the newly established electoral management board, part of the Democracy and Boundary Commission Cymru, to be the platform operator. It is particularly appropriate to move these regulations during the Electoral Commission's Welcome to your Vote Week, which has the theme of 'get informed and get involved'. The Welsh Government's aim for the platform is to improve the availability and accessibility of information for voters, helping to increase understanding, awareness and confidence to take part in Welsh elections. The platform will provide a single point of information for voters. This includes details about their polling stations, parties and candidates standing for election, and signposting to other helpful information.

The regulations provide for a minimum viable product to be operational for May 2026, and allow flexibility for the platform to develop over time. I'm grateful to the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for its consideration of the regulations, and I ask Members to approve the regulations today.

I call on the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, Mike Hedges.

Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee considered these draft regulations before the Senedd’s half-term recess. The committee’s report contains five technical reporting points and three merits reporting points.

The first technical point highlights potential defective drafting and notes that there is an inconsistency between how 'candidate' is defined in the regulations when compared against the draft Senedd Cymru (Representation of the People) Order 2025, which the Welsh Government has recently consulted on. The Government agrees with the point we raise, and has committed to clarifying the irregularity with this definition when it makes an amending statutory instrument later this year, which will need to cross-refer to the 2025 conduct Order, once that is made.

The remaining four technical reporting points all raise matters where the committee considers that further explanation is needed. At the committee’s meeting last week, we considered the additional information that the Government provided in respect of each of these points. That response is available from today’s Plenary agenda.

Finally, I will just note that the committee’s three merits reporting points all highlight matters of political or legal importance, or which may give rise to policy likely to be of interest to the Senedd.

No speakers. Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet to respond.

Diolch, Llywydd, and diolch to the Chair of the legislation and constitution committee as well. I very much appreciate the work of the committee and noted what the Chair has said. These regulations will deliver a key element of the elections and Elected Bodies (Wales) Act, and the platform will support voters to confidently take part in Welsh lections, breaking down barriers to participation and empowering Welsh citizens to make their voice heard in our democracy.

The detail on the technicalities of delivering the platform are being worked on by the electoral management board. There is a working group, including the electoral management board, Welsh Government officials and electoral administrators, that is working on the detailed operation of the platform, and I’m sure that it will hear the points that have been made today.

Lastly, Llywydd, this is an investment in our democracy. The platform will help people understand elections and the choices that they have in voting.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed.

Items 8 and 9 are next. In accordance with Standing Order 12.24, unless a Member objects, the two motions under these items will be grouped for debate, but with separate votes. I see that there are no objections.

I will therefore call on the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and the Welsh Language to move these motions—Mark Drakeford.

Thank you very much, Llywydd. I'm pleased to open the debate today. The Welsh Language (Wales) Measure 2011 (Amendment of Schedule 6) Order 2025 adds three bodies to Schedule 6 to the Welsh language Measure. In doing this, it will be possible to add these bodies to Welsh language standards regulations that already exist.  

The Welsh Language Standards (No. 1, No. 2, No. 4, No. 6 and No. 7) Regulations (Amendment) Regulations 2025 add six bodies and special health authorities as a category of persons to Welsh language standards regulations that already exist. This will enable the Welsh Language Commissioner to impose standards on these bodies and ensure that there are more opportunities for people to use the Welsh language.

Eight sets of language standards regulations have been made to date, and over 130 bodies are captured by standards. The kinds of services that the special health authorities and bodies provide were a consideration in deciding which sets of standards regulations would be most appropriate for them. As a result, we are adding bodies to five sets of regulations.

Following the consultation, a small number of standards from the No. 6 regulations are to be applied to Health Education and Improvement Wales, as well as all of the No. 7 standards. This is because they provide education services as well as being a health sector body.

Special health authorities are being added as a category to the No. 7 regulations, with all standards applying to them, in order to safeguard the regulations for the future. If a new special health authority were to be created in the future, it would be possible for the commissioner to place standards on that body immediately, without having to wait for us to add those new bodies to regulations.

As a Government, we are committed to bringing more public bodies into the standards regime. Introducing this subordinate legislation before the Senedd today is a further step in delivering that, and I ask Members to support these regulations today.  

Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, Mike Hedges.

Diolch, Llywydd. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee considered both of these sets of draft regulations on 10 February. The committee’s reports on both instruments highlight the same issue as technical reporting points.

In relation to both instruments, the committee’s single technical reporting point identifies that the wording used in the preamble to describe the draft affirmative procedure is unclear about what is actually being approved by the Senedd. The committee asked the Welsh Government why the usual clear form of words hasn't been used, as seen in recent other draft affirmative instruments.

In response to both reports, the Welsh Government told the committee that, in its view, the reference to subsection (2) of section 150 of the Welsh Language (Wales) Measure 2011 is sufficient to make it clear that it is the draft statutory instrument that receives the Senedd's approval. The Welsh Government also notes that other Welsh language standards regulations made previous use of this wording. The committee acknowledges that drafting matters are the responsibility of the Welsh Ministers to judge. Nonetheless, the wording used in other draft affirmative instruments is clearer and more accessible to readers of the legislation. Furthermore, precedent shouldn’t be relied upon without ensuring that the drafting is clear and appropriate by current standards. 

Plaid Cymru supports this extension to organisations that will come under the auspices of the Welsh language standards. We also agreed with the comments made by the Government in terms of this £12 million noted as the cost by one health authority. Now, clearly, that amount isn't realistic, and it's important that we challenge. I was pleased that there was publicity given yesterday to this, and the Government's comments, because we want to see more bodies being included in the standards. Clearly, there was a commitment in the co-operation agreement to be bringing more bodies under the auspices of the standards. I'd like to know, with the election coming next year, how that work is progressing to ensure that regulations that encompass the housing association sector and transport sectors start to make progress.

But certainly in terms of your comments yesterday, putting those costs into the right context, it's very important that we demonstrate that these are positive steps for the Welsh language, and for users of the language too, and that they're not things for organisations to be afraid of. There are plenty of examples now of how this is working very effectively, and we're pleased to see this movement today.

The Cabinet Secretary to reply.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. To respond to Mike Hedges's point to begin with, Llywydd, the advice that I have is that the wording used in the regulations is clear from a legal point of view, but I'm happy to provide an assurance to the committee that using the phraseology we have adopted for these regulations doesn't set a precedent, and we'd be very happy to work to ensure that, in any future regulations, the clarity of meaning is secured.

Just to reply to Heledd Fychan—I thank her, of course, for her support—that we continue to work on the standards programme, as is set out in our programme for government, and as was outlined in the co-operation agreement. This includes working on standards for housing associations, and then, following that, public transport. We are still working on those, and we look forward to bringing those before the Senedd, and also in the future.

And as Heledd Fychan said, Llywydd, there are some agencies who aren't quite familiar with the way we work here in Wales, and officials have had further discussions with them. I think they now better understand the position than when they put those figures down, and we look forward to working with them to bring them in under the standards, because the purpose of the standards is not simply to have standards, but to have improved services for people who want to use the Welsh language when they access public services.

Thank you. The proposal is to agree the motion under item 8. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, that motion under item 8 is agreed.

The next proposal is to agree the motion under item 9. Does any Member object to that? No. Therefore, that motion too is agreed.

Item 10 is next, the Landfill Disposals Tax (Tax Rates) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2025. The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Welsh Language once again to move the motion—Mark Drakeford.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. In the draft budget published in December, the Welsh Government set out the details of our plans for Welsh devolved and partially devolved taxes. In respect of landfill disposals tax, I announced the rates for LDT that would apply from 1 April this year. The regulations increased the rates of LDT at each of the three rates, the lower standard and the unauthorised disposal rates from 1 April. The standard rate at £126.15 per tonne represents a 22 per cent increase, and that takes account of the erosion of the real value of that rate of LDT over recent years eroded by inflation. The unauthorised rate will increase to £189.25 per tonne. This maintains the unauthorised rate at 150 per cent of the standard rate and reflects the seriousness with which we treat unauthorised disposals of waste here in Wales.

Llywydd, in increasing the lower rate to £6.30 per tonne, we are responding to the increased amount of lower rated waste being presented for landfill. As a behavioural tax, it is essential that this rate is pitched at a level that supports the primary purpose of the tax, that is to say, reducing and diverting waste away from landfill. The new rates also respond to the finding of last year's independent review of landfill disposals in Wales, which found that the lower rate was no longer acting as a sufficient deterrent to landfill.

Now although, as I said, Llywydd, the LDT is a behavioural tax aimed at reducing landfill disposals, it is nevertheless estimated that the increases in the rates for next year will raise an additional £1.8 million in revenue for the next financial year, and that sum will be invested in public services in Wales. Llywydd, I will continue to monitor the impact of the lower rate. I will not hesitate to raise the lower rate again if it does not demonstrate that it is an effective way of diverting waste away from landfill.

Can I thank the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for its report and encourage Members to support these regulations?

I'm grateful to the Cabinet Secretary for outlining the proposed amendments as he has done here today, much of which we as a group would support. In particular, we welcome the alignment of the standard rate with the rate in England, which I think is the right approach both for those disposal sites and also for their customers, those disposing of waste in that manner as well, especially with such a fluid administrative border. And we're also not opposed to the unauthorised disposals rate that the Cabinet Secretary has outlined as well, for the same reason, in terms of the incentive for appropriate behaviour in regard to that disposal.

Our group, though, will be voting to oppose the regulations as amended today, and in particular and specifically for the same reason for which we support the alignment of the standard rate. These amendments create a significant deviation and increase, as the Cabinet Secretary outlined, on the lower rate, which presents a number of potential negative consequences, which I'll briefly outline, Llywydd.

Firstly, the Welsh Government's own explanatory memorandum acknowledges that, with these amendments, there will be an increase of landfill waste that will not be disposed of locally, but will likely cross into England and be disposed of there. It's described in the EM as ‘waste tourism’. This, for me, does not seem to be in the spirit of effectively reducing the rate of waste, but rather seeking for that waste to be disposed of elsewhere and become somebody else's problem to deal with. And indeed the move away from parity of rates with England on this will make life more difficult for local businesses and lead to negative outcomes, including putting more miles on the movement of waste, which is contributing to the very thing, unhealthy environments, that these amendments are trying to avoid. For me, and for our group, option 2b, as outlined in the EM, seems a much more sensible approach, which carries much less risk.

Additionally, with the amendments, we are concerned about significantly higher costs for the firms involved, especially in the construction sector, who will be affected most. Now, we understand that the construction sector is a sector that is at particular risk at the moment in our economic environment, and this additional burden is a further disincentive for them to operate in Wales. Let's be clear, this new fee for the lower rate nearly doubles the cost per tonne for those disposing of this type of waste, and I would argue that this escalation is too rapid, and we should be seeking to relieve those pressures on those sectors, taking into account what the Cabinet Secretary's outlined in terms of behavioural change, but nearly doubling the cost per tonne seems like a rapid escalation.

Finally, Llywydd, as outlined in the Government's EM, the potential for increased fly-tipping and illegal dumping is made more likely as a result of this amendment. Of course, that's not an outcome that anybody wants to see, including the Cabinet Secretary I'm sure, but we do recognise the risk, as outlined in the Government's explanatory memorandum, that this may increase. We also recognise the pressure that this would place on the relevant enforcement agencies, and we all know of the pressures that they are under at the moment. Of course, the pressure of increased fly-tipping and illegal dumping on those enforcement agencies could increase the cost of that enforcement, and risks swallowing up the additional revenue that the Cabinet Secretary seeks.

So, we will not be supporting the regulations as amended in front of us here today. As I've outlined, there are areas we would like to support and recognise the need for change on, but, as the amendments are here today, we will not be supporting them as laid out. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

No other contributors, therefore the Cabinet Secretary to reply. 

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. I thank the Conservative Party spokesperson for the support for the standard rate and for the rate that deals with unauthorised disposals. Let me explain if I could why the Government has decided to increase the lower rate from £3.30 to £6.30 per tonne. Had we uprated it in the same way as we have uprated the other two rates, it would have increased by 75p a tonne to £4.05, and that is not sufficient, in my view, to deal with the emerging pattern that we've seen in Wales in more recent times. Because, since the inception of landfill disposals tax, the amount of standard rate waste disposed of to landfill in Wales has fallen by 48.9 per cent. That's a really big policy achievement, given that the purpose of the tax is to change behaviour. But, more recently, we have seen the amount of lower rated waste disposed to landfill in Wales actually rising by 8 per cent. So, it's clear that the current rate is not sufficient to have the impact on behaviour that the tax was intended to do. 

And let's be frank just for a moment, Llywydd, that it also acts as an incentive for misdescription, and that's what the independent view of the tax also concluded—that, if you have such a disparity at the bottom end, it will encourage some companies to describe waste as being at that lower rate, when, in fact, it should be being presented at the standard rate. 

So, we have to act in order to create a greater disincentive to disincentivise misdescription and to disincentivise the use of landfill altogether. That's why what I've done in the regulations is to mirror what we have done with the unauthorised disposals rate, which is a fixed percentage of the standard rate. We now have a fixed percentage—5 per cent—of the standard rate at the lower rate as well. 

Thanks for taking the intervention, Cabinet Secretary. I understand your argument and I wonder how much you acknowledge that the reason for the reduction in the standard rate is a change in behaviour at kerbside collection points. You well know that the lower rate being described here is aggregate, stones, rocks, that type of thing, which is much less easily recyclable. And therefore the options for those companies who would be seeking to dispose of waste are much more limited versus the type of waste that is within the standard rate. Would you acknowledge that, perhaps, it's not necessarily about the cost per tonne in terms of the waste disposal incentive, it's the ability to actually change behaviour at the point at recycling for these companies? 

Llywydd, I'm happy to agree that there is a legitimate point in what Sam Rowlands says, but, nevertheless, the amount of waste going to landfill at the lower rate also declined at the start of this tax. So, it's not inevitable that companies cannot find other and better ways to reuse, for example, rather than dispose of material, because that material often has a significant financial value attached to it if it is used again, and in a different way.

I want just to reply very briefly to the two other points that the Member made. It's certainly not the purpose of the regulations to divert waste into England. The EM makes the point that that could be an unintended consequence of it; we don't think it will be, particularly. You'd lose more money on the journey than you would in paying the additional sum of money here in Wales. And, as for the point about fly-tipping, Wales is the only part of the United Kingdom that has used the unauthorised disposals rate. We had one successful use of those powers last year; we've had six already so far this year. So, you've got to take this package of measures together, and the use of Natural Resources Wales and the Welsh Revenue Authority, working together on unauthorised disposals, I think will have an impact on—. That message will go round the system, and it will certainly mitigate the risk that increasing the lower rate to a point where it does act as a disincentive to landfill, that that will lead to the sorts of unintended consequences that the Member has raised. I continue to ask Members to approve the regulations.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there is objection. Therefore, we will defer voting under this item until voting time.

Item 11 is next, the debate on the president of Welsh Tribunals fifth annual report 2023-24. I call on the Counsel General to move the motion—Julie James.

Diolch, Llywydd. I'm very pleased to open today's debate on the president of Welsh Tribunals annual report for 2023-24. This is the fifth annual report from the president's office and the first under the leadership of Sir Gary Hickinbottom. Before we get into the detail, I want to start by thanking Sir Gary for his leadership of the Welsh Tribunals since taking up his post in April 2023. Stepping into a role like this is no small task, and, in his short time in office, he's made an immediate and very meaningful impact. His commitment to devolved justice in Wales is evident throughout this report.

Llywydd, a key part of Sir Gary's role is to listen to the members of our Welsh tribunals and represent their views. He has done this not only through his work with Ministers, but also through his engagement with the Senedd's Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee. The positive and constructive relationship between Ministers and the president is vital, as we work together to shape a fair, independent and well-functioning tribunal system. So, Llywydd, this debate isn't just about a report; it's about ensuring people in Wales have access to justice when they need it most. The Welsh tribunals may be relatively small in number, but their work is absolutely vital. Whether it's disputes around education, mental health, property or Welsh language rights, these tribunals provide a route for people to have their voices heard and decisions reviewed fairly. We must recognise the dedication of the tribunal members who uphold these principles of justice every day. Their commitment to public service is invaluable, and I want to put on record my thanks for their hard work.

Llywydd, of course the report also highlights challenges the Welsh tribunals need to address. One of these is getting the balance right between remote and face-to-face hearings, something that can make a real difference to people's experience of the justice system. Another is ensuring tribunal members are properly supported and fairly paid. We know the decision last year on pay was very difficult. The financial pressures we faced meant we, unfortunately, couldn't match the uplift given to tribunal members in the reserved system. However, I am very pleased indeed that we've now been able to take action to put this right. We've taken important steps. We've increased the Welsh tribunals budget significantly, from £4.1 million to £6 million. That's a real commitment to making sure our tribunals have the resources they need. We've reinstated pay parity for tribunal members, with an 8 per cent uplift, bringing their pay in line with those in the reserved system. And, Llywydd, we're actively participating in a major review of judicial salaries, being undertaken by the senior salaries review board. This will help ensure pay structures remain fair and sustainable in the years ahead.

Looking to the future, we must also reform the way our tribunals are structured. As Sir Gary has made clear in his report, this isn't just desirable, it's necessary. Our current system has evolved over time, but it's not been designed in a way that truly serves Wales in the longer term. The First Minister, Eluned Morgan, and her Welsh Government, remain completely committed to legislation that will create an integrated and modern tribunal system, one that strengthens judicial independence, improves accessibility and ensures efficiency.

So, Llywydd, this reform isn't just about the legal system, it's about delivering a fair and effective justice programme for people across Wales. Let me be very clear: this work is a priority, and we will deliver on our commitment to reform. Diolch.

As the Counsel General has said, this is the fifth annual report of the president of the Welsh Tribunals, and the first of the current president, Sir Gary Hickinbottom, and I thank him for the work that he has done to date in his capacity as president of the Welsh Tribunals, and I pay tribute to his predecessor, Sir Wyn Williams.

The report gives a very clear account of the progress made against his priorities, and also highlights some of the key challenges facing the tribunals in Wales. Before I go on to some of the points made in the president's report, like the Counsel General, I want to remind Members just how important these tribunals are. They span everything from agriculture to mental health, and play an important role in our justice system. Therefore, it's crucial that the tribunals system in Wales is able to deliver effective access to justice for tribunal users.

The first priority highlighted in the president's report is judicial training, and as the report makes clear, the judicial college has no remit to train devolved tribunal members. This, of course, means that the college does not train our tribunal members unless there are spare places after the reserved tribunal judiciary have made their applications, and I understand that that only happens on rare occasions. The president did tell the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee that he was willing to have another go at trying to persuade the judicial college to extend their scope to cover devolved tribunals, so perhaps in response the Counsel General can update us on any discussions she's had with the president of the tribunals on this matter.

The second priority in the report is in relation to encouraging and facilitating the use of the Welsh language, both in terms of administration and in hearings. I'm pleased to read that a new self-assessment process has been set up by the Welsh Tribunals unit, in which staff assess how each tribunal complies with the requirements of the Welsh language standards, and I'm also reassured from the report that there are facilities and resources needed to enable people to use Welsh in the system. However, the figures tell us that there is still a reluctance for many to use Welsh in legal settings compared to English. I understand that an additional voluntary question has been added to the application form to try and identify the reasons for the predominance of the English language in our tribunals, and I look forward to seeing some of the conclusions that come from that, so that any barriers can be addressed.

The report briefly touches on appointments, and I was pleased to read that two salaried judges for the mental health review tribunal have been appointed. There was some discussion around recruitment and whether there were any difficulties, and the president told the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee that any disparity in pay, terms and conditions or training opportunities compared to reserved tribunals would have an impact. I know that the pay issue has now been addressed, as the Counsel General has just said, but I'd be interested in the Counsel General's views on recruitment and whether there are any further issues that need to be looked at in this area.

The fourth priority of the president of the Welsh Tribunals is tribunal reform, and I agree that reform of the system is indeed needed. As my colleague Mark Isherwood has previously said, we support a greater degree of independence for the Welsh Tribunals unit, with the creation of a non-ministerial department to administer the tribunals, and I sincerely hope the Welsh Government will revisit their position on this matter.

The president's report also supports the creation of a unified tribunal system for devolved tribunals in Wales, which would be made up of a first tier tribunal and an appeal tribunal for Wales, which would hear appeals from the first tier tribunal. I'm open-minded about this reform, and I accept the view of the president that it would lead to greater coherence, and ultimately a more effective system for users. Perhaps the Counsel General could tell us more about the costs involved in making this change, and whether funding has already been ring-fenced for this work.

Finally, Llywydd, I just want to touch on the fact that the budget for the Welsh tribunals had overspends over the last two years. In response to members of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, the president explained that the overspends had been down to matters like increased fee-paid judicial time and recruitment costs, increases in pay and pension costs, and a return to face-to-face hearings for the mental health review tribunal for Wales following COVID-19. I very much accept that, and I agree that reforming the system provides an opportunity for it to be more transparent in the future. As the president explained, the proposed reforms include setting up an executive body independent of the Executive Government, and that, of course, will result in an annual report, and the body would have an annual budget. Therefore, I believe this would be far more transparent and accountable than the current state of play.

So, Llywydd, it's a very interesting time for Welsh tribunals, with a lot of change on the horizon. It will be very interesting to see how much reform will be taken forward in legislation, and I look forward to receiving further updates on this issue in due course. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

The Welsh tribunals are a cornerstone of our justice system, essential to ensuring fairness, transparency and effective access to justice for the people of Wales. But by the president of the tribunals' own admission, it's a system that is badly in need of urgent reform. Now, it's good to hear the Counsel General saying that those reform proposals, encapsulated in the proposed tribunal Bill, are a priority for the Welsh Government. Well, if they are a priority, why has the Welsh Government rejected the recommendation from the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee that the Government commit to enacting that Bill in this Senedd? Just reading this latest annual report from the president, and indeed his evidence before the LJC committee, make it unmistakeably clear to anyone that that legislation is imperative. It's urgently necessary.

Currently, our tribunals are trapped in a complex and confused position between devolved and reserved jurisdictions, and at the point—. I should have done this at the beginning, and I just refer Members to my declaration of interest, that my partner is a tribunal judge, although not in the devolved system of tribunals.

But the tribunal system, at the moment, is caught on that infamous jagged edge, and that results in the inefficiencies. You just referred to the overspend. The president, in his evidence, referred to part of the reason for that is the fact that decision making, at moment, in relation to many of the matters that the Conservative spokesperson referred to, are in different places, and so that's why we need this reform, to place the tribunal system on clear and sustainable foundations, to create a unified, coherent structure, ensuring judicial independence and ensuring that our tribunals serve the people of Wales, ultimately, the tribunal users, effectively, now and in the future.

And that's why the Government's refusal to commit to introducing this absolutely crucial piece of legislation in this Senedd is deeply troubling. Despite the very clear and unequivocal call from Sir Gary Hickinbottom himself and many other stakeholders, the Government is hesitating. And it's even more troubling then also to see the Government, in the same breath, rejecting another of the recommendations of the LJC committee to publish another 'Delivering Justice for Wales' report in this Senedd, removing a vital part of transparency and accountability, so that we can see the progress, or lack thereof, in terms of reforming and devolving our justice system. We think that we need to have this reform, we need to have this Bill as urgently as possible, because there are risks. 

It's good see that there's more budget going in. It's good to see that pay parity is being restored. But the perception of a disparity in terms and conditions and status, between the devolved system of tribunals and non-devolved tribunals, they threaten, don't they, our capacity to recruit and retain skilled and experienced judicial members, and therefore that would undermine the delivery of justice itself.

The evidence, I think, from the report and before the LJC committee from the president is clear: we need this legislation now. It's essential to resolve the significant operational, financial and administrative challenges facing Welsh tribunals today. Delaying this essential legislation is not prudent governance. It's negligence, actually. It risks leaving our tribunals unable to cope with current demands, let alone future responsibilities, such as youth justice or education appeals. It weakens Wales’s justice infrastructure and compromises our commitment to fair and accessible justice.

Therefore, I ask the Counsel General to reconsider their rejection of the recommendation from the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, and to recommit to enacting this legislation in this Senedd. We need a tribunals Bill introduced without further delay, accompanied as well by full transparency about the progress of the rest of the justice reform programme. Anything less, in our view, would be an abdication of responsibility, leaving Wales's justice system underserved, undervalued and ill prepared for the challenges ahead.

As has become a regular item on the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee's calendar, we took evidence from the president of the Welsh Tribunals on his annual report in October. As a committee, we are grateful to the president for his engagement with us and for the insights he provided on some of the challenges faced by the tribunals. The president's annual report highlights the fact that the expenditure for the Welsh Tribunals has exceeded its budget for 2023-24 quite considerably, following a similar overspend the previous year, as outlined by Paul Davies a few moments ago.

During the session, we asked the president about these overspends. He told us that there were a number of relevant factors. When we asked the president if he believed the Welsh tribunals had the resources they needed to ensure cases are disposed of speedily, efficiently and, most importantly, justly, the president told us unambiguously, 'no', because there is a

'disparity between budget and actual expenditure'.

That was obviously a cause of concern. It is therefore welcome that the Welsh Government has increased the budget for the tribunals for next year. As we stated in our report on the draft budget, we believe it is of fundamental importance to citizens' access to justice that the tribunals are properly resourced.

The president also told us about the challenges in competing with courts and other non-devolved tribunals for tribunal members, in terms of fee rates and issues such as working practices. However, we note that the disparity in pay that took place in 2023-24 has now been resolved.

We also asked the president if members of the Welsh tribunals had access to the training and support they needed. He told us that training members of the Welsh tribunals without an equivalent of a judicial college for the devolved tribunals is a 'real issue', and that he would continue to try and persuade the judicial college to extend the scope of their activities to cover all tribunals.

In addition, we discussed the fact that the number of tribunal hearings held in the Welsh language has remained low over the last four years, as highlighted in the president's annual report. The president told us that this could have an adverse effect on access to justice for those who would best present their case in Welsh, or largely in Welsh. We therefore welcome the work being undertaken to find out the reasons why some Welsh speakers opt for proceedings to be undertaken in English.

On a personal note, I think one of the problems is that there are words where only the English is used in common language, including amongst most Welsh speakers, when there is the option to move to English. 'Most' is probably what we should be aiming for, that people speak mostly in Welsh, but use English words in the words they use. I had an example of that last night. I was talking to a Welsh lecturer in a university, and I asked them—. Nothing to do with this, but I asked them a question, on what is the Welsh term for something—I won't go into what it was—and they didn't know, because they'd only ever heard or used the English. So, I think that getting people to use mainly Welsh and then picking up English words when necessary can make a big difference.

We also heard from the president about the importance of reform to the Welsh tribunals. A Bill to implement this reform has been in the pipeline for a while now, with a White Paper published in June 2023. The committee recently asked the Welsh Government to commit to introducing this legislation before the end of this Senedd, but, disappointingly, it has been unable to make this commitment. We continue to stress the importance of this reform to justice in Wales and hope to see the introduction of the Bill as soon as possible. Thank you.

Cwnsler Cyffredinol, I agree. Firstly, I agree with your comments, and the comments of Paul Davies, about the appointment of Sir Gary Hickinbottom. In fact, the Welsh tribunals service has been very lucky in both its presidents, to be able to have such impressive individuals as presidents of the Welsh tribunals system.

The Welsh tribunals are an anomaly of devolution, a real anomaly of the current settlement, and really shows how jagged our jagged edge is. The Welsh tribunals were not planned, but developed gradually over the years. All of them, except the Welsh Language Tribunal, predate devolution. Now, that ad hoc development has created many issues, but these issues can be resolved through the proposed reforms.

The publication of the report happened in May 2024. I'm just wondering why we're debating the report now, some 10 months later. The next report will be due soon, and as you’ve said in your statement, we’ve moved on quite a bit since that report. I just wanted to know why we’ve waited so long to debate this report, because my concern is that this mirrors the slow progress with the reform of the Welsh tribunals and that the Welsh tribunals can be forgotten.

The Law Commission’s proposals for reform were first made in December 2020. It has been discussed throughout this Senedd term, yet as Adam Price said very powerfully, we are still waiting for a timetable for this legislation, and you’ve heard me asking you on a number of occasions for that timetable. The lack of timetable must create real uncertainty amongst Welsh tribunals, and if it doesn’t happen before the 2026 election, there is no guarantee that it will happen at all. I think it’s quite something how strongly in favour the president of Welsh Tribunals was for reform in his report, and that cannot be ignored.

The use of the Welsh language remains low; there’s nothing new there. I was used to seeing this regularly as a barrister in Swansea.

I remember once one farmer in court decided to give his evidence in English, and in giving his evidence he was going on about 'a hundred and a half sheep'. Of course, he was translating cant a hanner, a hundred and fifty, literally from Welsh.

This is a stubborn issue, and it’s an issue that many people have tried to tackle, but it remains. It’s incredible that only 13 of the cases in the tribunals used the Welsh language. For example, I’m aware of a Welsh-speaking couple who gave evidence in a tribunal hearing a few months ago. They work through the medium of Welsh, but they decided to make their case through the medium of English, because they thought that having an interpreter would cause too much trouble. I’m pleased to see that increasing use of the Welsh language is one of the priorities of the president of tribunals. Are you aware of how this work has progressed, and any progress made since the annual report was published?

Another issue that hasn’t changed either over the years is the number of cases. Other than the mental health tribunal, there’s very little use made of the tribunals. The figures for the Welsh Language Tribunal, the only tribunal established by the Senedd, are particularly low—only six cases since 2021-22. Has any consideration being given by the Welsh Government in terms of how more use can be made of these tribunals, namely including them in Senedd legislation as the place to resolve any issues or disputes, rather than using those county courts or the criminal courts that will very often be far more expensive for individuals and organisations?

Another concern that others have raised is the training, and that the Judicial College aren’t offering training for Welsh tribunal members. Training is crucial for any judicial member, and I—like Paul Davies has already asked—would be keen to know whether we're any further forward with regard to the Judicial College offering training for tribunal members.

I was very pleased to hear your comments on pay. Not to have pay parity was bound to impact recruitment and retention, it was bound to impact on how serious the Welsh Tribunals service would be considered. By offering lower pay, the inference would certainly be made by many that somehow the Welsh tribunals service is somehow inferior to the reserved courts and tribunals service. A strong argument for the devolution of justice is that we can show that we are supporting what is already devolved well, that we are running it better than reserved areas of the justice system. But by not having proper training available, by having to argue for parity of pay, by still waiting for a timetable for reform to be enacted, this cannot currently, Cwnsler Cyffredinol, be said about the Welsh tribunals service. Diolch yn fawr.

The Counsel General now, to reply to the debate. Julie James.

Diolch, Llywydd. As I close this debate, I just want to thank all Members who have contributed today. It's really good to see the interest that's been taken across the Chamber, across parties, in shaping the way forward for the tribunal system. I'll just run through a couple of the things that people raised, with a view to explaining where we are in this.

I have had a conversation about the judicial training, both with the president of the tribunals, who I am, by the way, meeting again later this month, and I have a schedule of meetings planned with him over the summer and autumn, just for Members to be aware that I'm meeting very regularly with Sir Gary and that we're discussing these matters extensively. But I've also raised this issue with the Lady Chief Justice, the judicial training point in particular, and recruitment issues, and we had a very constructive meeting up in the Supreme Court very recently. I'm actually meeting with her, extraordinarily, Llywydd, in Malta at the Commonwealth Law Conference, where I'm speaking and so is she, and we're able to fly the flag for Wales, both of us, there. She's very keen to help me do that, but I'll be able to continue those discussions with her.

I agree with everything that has been said about the judicial training. We absolutely have to ensure that we have access to the right sort of training for our tribunal judges, for obvious reasons. I think it just is self-evident and really quite concerning that we haven't been able to secure that so far. But I think we're in a very good place to secure that in the foreseeable future.

On the reform agenda, the First Minister will be making a statement on the legislative programme for year five shortly after Easter, which is earlier than normal in the cycle, in order for us to prepare for year five. We're still fully committed to reforming the devolved tribunals, but I'm not in a position to say yet whether the tribunals Bill will make it into that programme. There is much competition for space in year five, and, Llywydd, you'll be aware of the discussions that I've been having with you, the Business Committee and business managers around how to manage that programme. I don't want anyone to think that the Government is not fully committed to reforming the devolved tribunals, ensuring they remain independent, accessible and properly resourced, though—we absolutely are.

As I said in my opening remarks, I was delighted to be able to restore pay parity. I completely agree with the remarks people made, particularly Rhys ab Owen's remarks about that being a good measure for us being able to display the importance of the roles and the gravity with which we take being able to fill them with the right kind of responsible people who are properly remunerated and supported in those roles. So, I completely agree with that. I was delighted that we were able to do that and delighted that we were able to put the budget back up to where we know the expenditure is.

Having said that, I am in discussion with the president of the tribunals about some of the working practices that we see. It is interesting to see that we do far more face-to-face hearings here in Wales than anywhere else in the UK, and the balance of fee-paid judges has not decreased, actually, despite the pay parity. So, there are some ongoing issues to discuss with Sir Gary, and I know that he is very keen to work with me to see if we can do that.

Llywydd, it would be remiss of me not to thank the president of the mental health review tribunal for Wales, who is due to retire in April. She has worked very tirelessly in that tribunal, so I just want to extend my thanks to her as part of my remarks, and then to say, of course, that we will be recruiting for a replacement for her. Big shoes to fill, but we will be recruiting a replacement for her to take over the tribunal from April. I have had a long and extensive discussion with the Lady Chief Justice about how to do that, because of the arcane nature of the way that those provisions work. That just is another reason why we need to get the reform in place as soon as possible.

Finally, I just want to take the opportunity once again to thank Sir Gary for his leadership and his first annual report as president of Welsh Tribunals. I want to extend my gratitude to all those who contribute to the vital work of the tribunals, ensuring that justice in Wales remains accessible, fair and effective. Diolch yn fawr.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed.

Item 12 is next, the debate on International Women's Day—accelerating action. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice to move the motion. Jane Hutt.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. The eighth of March is a very important date in our calendars as we come together to mark International Women's Day—a time to see how far we've come and how far we've yet to go. The campaign theme for this year is 'accelerating action'. The UN theme is 'For ALL Women and Girls: Rights. Equality. Empowerment'. Both themes are reflected in the motion for today's important debate, and it is so great that it was co-tabled by all parties here in the Senedd. I would like to thank Joyce Watson for her leadership of the cross-party women's caucus, where we came together and said, 'We must have a debate' and we all agreed a motion. That's a great expression, I think, to all of those who look to us for leadership across this Senedd.

Thirty years ago in 1995, people from every part of the world committed to achieving gender equality when the Beijing declaration and platform for action was adopted by 189 governments and endorsed by thousands of activists. The UN's gender snapshot 2024 report indicates that, at the current rates, gender parity in parliaments is potentially not achievable until 2063. It will take 137 years to lift all women and girls out of poverty. About one in four girls continue to be married as children; this is totally unacceptable, but it does illustrate the enormity of the global challenge, and the challenge that we all have to address today.

In 2015, almost every country in the world signed up to achieve gender equality by 2030, as part of the UN's sustainable development goals. Unfortunately, the latest progress report indicates that the world is falling far short of the target, and, I would argue, going backwards in many countries. The women and girls of the world deserve better, but gender inequality is a complex and stubborn issue, both here in Wales and globally. And of course, the answer lies deeply ingrained in society: power imbalances, economic imbalances, political underrepresentation, which we're addressing in this debate and motion today, and persistent and widespread violence against women and girls.

Gender inequality affects all of us here sharing this debate across the Chamber, and the people we represent. It impacts on the lives of our daughters, granddaughters, wives, mothers, sisters, friends and colleagues. It impacts on everyone, it impacts on men and women, it impacts on families, households and the economy. Because when women earn less than men for the same job, the family earns less. And I believe that we can be trailblazers for gender equality in Wales. The year 2024, of course, brought us our first female First Minister for Wales, and I always remember how you talked about what this might mean for the young women, who said, 'Really? Fantastic. We can do it too'. Last year also brought us our first female black police and crime commissioner in Wales, Emma Wools.

Llywydd, International Women's Day is also a day for celebration, as we did last week at the event you hosted to celebrate the Monumental Welsh Women campaign, and I was able to join that event. I was particularly pleased to praise the team who have organised these wonderful monuments for women. The first monument, the first statue of a woman was for Betty Campbell MBE, the first black headteacher in Wales. And actually, the public voted for her to be the first women's statue in Wales, which just shows the strength of public opinion in support of that great statue, which so many of you know and see and the public and visitors embrace. 

Also, let's celebrate women's sport. I congratulate Rhian Wilkinson, her coaching staff, the players and the Football Association of Wales for their tremendous achievement in reaching the women's UEFA Euro 2025 finals. This is the first time the Wales women's football team has reached a major football competition and I wish them every success in Switzerland later this year.

Can I also welcome the statement made last week by the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning, highlighting the contribution of female entrepreneurs and business owners in Wales? Rebecca Evans showed in her statement the important role that women are playing in driving economic growth, fostering innovation and promoting equality, all the while ensuring a diverse and inclusive workforce. That's partly happened because of our equality pledge and Business Wales helping to make this happen.

The women's health plan for Wales, an ambitious 10-year plan, is driving real improvements in women's health and outcomes. Since the plan launched in December, we've already started to effect change and improvements, with a major boost in women's health research and new standards for maternity and neonatal care.

But in April, we mark 10 years since the Violence Against Women, Domestic Abuse and Sexual Violence (Wales) Act 2015 became law. As we approach this milestone, we still face that enormous challenge, as I have already alluded to—that we continue to tackle this scourge of violence against women and domestic abuse in society on all fronts.

We are addressing this in our strategic partnership board, which I co-chair with the police and crime commissioner Emma Wools. And I am strengthening our approach through the VAWDASV national partnership board to make sure that we make Wales a safe and secure place for women and girls to thrive. That means everyone has to work together—the public and specialist sectors impelling us to work together in partnership.

Evidence from ACE Hub Cymru indicates that gender-based harassment in public places is a significant issue for women and girls. We're taking action. Last week we had a powerful debate led by Hannah Blythyn on tackling sexual harassment in the workplace. And we recently launched the third phase of our successful Sound campaign, led by men, focusing specifically on public sexual harassment. The Sound campaigns have been very successful in encouraging young men and boys to have open conversations about what healthy relationships look like, to challenge harmful attitudes and behaviours of men towards women, to support change at that societal level.

I do urge you all—. I know that you're all aware of the Live Fear Free helpline, and I urge you to publicise it as widely as possible—that 24-hour-a-day helpline, seven days a week, for all victims and survivors of domestic abuse and sexual violence, and for those close to them, of any age or gender, including family, friends and colleagues as well.

Llywydd, I come to the second important point in this motion. Recent years have seen a rise in abuse, harassment and intimidation directed towards politicians, candidates and campaigners, both online and offline. Women in elected office are disproportionately affected, particularly online. This toxicity must be eradicated, and I’m so glad that we're uniting today to condemn abuse and intimidation of women in politics. This is where we each play a part, and we must stand united. When we see abuse or intimidation, we must call it out. We must condemn it. And we have that opportunity today, with strong voices from across the Chamber.

Everyone should feel safe to stand for election—to campaign, to vote and to work in delivering elections. Democracy depends on it. Through the Elections and Elected Bodies (Wales) Act 2024, and the forthcoming Senedd conduct Order, we've strengthened provisions on intimidation and undue influence offences for elections. We're working at pace to publish our diversity and inclusion guidance for political parties well ahead of the next Senedd election. I will be publishing that very shortly.

I’m delighted that the Welsh Government is supporting another three years of the Equal Power Equal Voice programme, which gives women and other under-represented groups knowledge, skills and confidence to get involved in public and political life. I’m also delighted that we are supporting Elect Her. An Elect Her event organised last week provided an opportunity for us to meet young women keen to meet female MSs from across the Senedd to encourage them to consider entering politics.

I could say much more but I want to hear from everyone else in this debate. It is a cross-party debate. I think, Llywydd, that this is an opportunity for us to unite together in support of this motion, and I look forward to hearing all of the contributions. Diolch yn fawr.

I'd like to welcome this motion, to start with, and also to support the call to accelerate action. It's very, very important that we do make progress in it. This is a good opportunity to reflect on the progress made by women but also to acknowledge that there is still some way to go. And I'm glad we're here today, talking about this. But I do think it is a bit rich that, as was said in the Chamber earlier, five months after I asked the Government to define a woman, they have failed to write back to me. Perhaps we can get an answer today, Llywydd, because I'm not sure what's so confusing.

I have grave concerns about the ability of the Welsh Government to truly protect and support biological women and girls—truly protect them—and their sports, even though it's mentioned in one of the 'accelerate action' plans, and their spaces, when we can't even define one. So, this motion is well meaning, and I'm glad we've come together to support it, but I fear it may only be paying lip service to women—to biological women and girls. After all, if we can’t define a woman, who is this motion talking about? Who are we discussing? Who are we wanting to protect? This isn’t a culture war, this is about women’s rights. Women’s rights campaigners, like Sharron Davies and like J.K. Rowling, are not culture warriors. Women all over the world are being attacked for believing in two biological genders. Sex matters.

Would you take an intervention?

These things I’ve mentioned today—[Interruption.]—are important to women all over Wales. Yes, I will.

Do you know who attacks women mainly? Straight men. That's who women are attacked by, overwhelmingly. And if you're asking the question, 'What is a woman?', I can you tell you what a woman is: a woman is a woman, and trans women are women.

Okay. Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on that, because how are you protecting biological women and girls in sports when it's not fair and it's not safe, and things like that, and giving women their own spaces in refuges? Do you really, really agree that that is a safe space for them, if they continue allowing biological males in those spaces? I don't think you can.

Of course I’m supportive of women and girls today all over Wales. It’s really important that women’s voices are heard across Wales without fear of intimidation. I might differ in views from people of the benches opposite, but it’s important that my voice is also heard, because that voice is a large part of Wales as well. It’s right that we call out abuse and stand with women when they’re abused in politics, but this has to be consistent. It’s right that we stand with Buffy Williams and we take a stand against the horrendous behaviour against her. And I know colleagues across this Senedd will join us in standing with Natasha Asghar—the abuse that she received from far-left Gaza protestors when she spoke at Cardiff University. If we’re standing with all women, we really must mean all women, and let their voices be heard, because free speech is an important part of democracy.

This International Women’s Day, I’d like to see governments at all levels commit to reclaim women’s sports and women’s safe spaces. I can’t believe, in 2025, that I’m having to say any of this. It isn’t about excluding anyone or putting anyone down, or not letting them play sport, it’s about ensuring that things that women have fought for for many decades are preserved—these basic rights. There has to be a way of being inclusive without it being at the expense of women. Diolch.

International Women’s Day is an opportunity to reflect on the past and to look to the future. International Women’s Day was first celebrated 114 years ago. My two grandmothers, Nansi and Mari, were born four years previously in 1907. They were the daughters of miners and were in the same class at primary school in Rhymney. Mari didn’t have the opportunity to go to grammar school, even though she passed the eleven plus, because the family couldn’t afford to keep more than one child at school. So, the opportunity went to her younger brother, when his turn came, because Mari, of course, would get married and have a family. Nansi did receive some education at grammar school because she was the youngest in the family, and both of her older sisters were already out working as cleaners. But when she married, she had to give up her work as a support teacher, because married women weren’t supposed to work; their sole occupation should be to raise a family and keep a house. 

I often think of my two grandmothers, sitting in this place, every time I hear someone say that there is a level playing field and that a meritocracy exists. They were two women who didn’t have much choice when it came to the direction that their lives took, because they were poor, yes, but also because they were women. Their story is so characteristic of the history of ordinary women in Wales and across the globe, and that’s why our debate today is so important. Yes, we can think about and celebrate those who’ve broken through the glass ceilings, and celebrate the exceptional contributions and achievements in every field, but they do remain exceptions. 

'Women belong in all places where decisions are being made. It shouldn't be that women are the exception.' 

Without there being women present, in the memorable words of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg, in positions of power and influence, and using that power and that influence to ensure that there is fairness and equality, then the attitudes that limit women’s lives in Wales will continue—the patriarchal culture that continues to drive societal attitudes, the economic inequality made explicit by the gender pay gap in Wales and poverty rates among women, the misogynistic attitudes that prevent women from taking up opportunities as a result of concerns about their safety and welfare, the fact that men rape and kill women and that these attacks have reached epidemic levels.

That’s why Plaid Cymru was disappointed when the first female First Minister of Wales decided not to proceed with legislation on gender quotas, which would have been such an important step towards ensuring that women are present in those rooms where decisions are made about women’s lives in Wales: our Senedd.

Because we so desperately need those women in the room. One of the most urgent issues we must address is the abuse and intimidation faced by women in politics. Women in public life are subject to harassment and threats, and horrific online abuse. I'm sure every woman in this place can share examples, and we all know of colleagues who've been subject to death threats and threats of rape. This is a threat not only to equality but to democracy itself, because if women feel unsafe or unwelcome in politics, fewer will stand for election, and our democratic institutions will be weaker as a result.

Harmful, sexist rhetoric is being deliberately spread for political reasons, and it's reversing progress on gender equality. Polling shows that one in four young men in the UK agree with Andrew Tate’s sexist and misogynist views on women. Meanwhile, in the White House sits a President who has been accused of rape, sexual assault and sexual harassment by tens of women and takes pride in his derogatory language towards women. Both men have had their social media platforms reinstated by Elon Musk. The harms that have been faced by women on social media are now being emboldened and amplified by Musk, who actively gives misogynist voices a powerful microphone.

This is a cross-party motion, but just supporting these words with a vote won't cut it, I'm afraid. If we support this motion we must actively counter these misogynist narratives. No excuses, zero tolerance, within our parties, in our Senedd, in our communities. And one concrete step that Wales could take is incorporating the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women into Welsh law. The Welsh Government committed to doing this in 2021, yet there's been no meaningful progress. And we heard evidence in committee recently that this work has not been adequately resourced from the start. You committed, Cabinet Secretary, to providing an update on this work early this year, so I'd like to know when we'll get that. Because without legal protections, women’s rights remain aspirational rather than enforceable. So, will you accelerate action on that specific step?

Finally, there's no gender parity until all women worldwide have equal rights. You mentioned the fifth UN sustainable development goal, which is gender equality. The women and girls in Gaza have been slaughtered in their thousands while the UK Labour Prime Minister defended the Israeli Government's right to do so and continues to sell them arms while they cut off humanitarian aid and electricity to girls, to elderly women, to pregnant women. Charities have warned that Trump's cutting of US foreign aid will most impact women and girls, as will the Westminster Labour Government's decision to cut the UK's international aid budget. We have a statutory duty to be a globally responsible nation, so will you condemn those cuts today, Cabinet Secretary?

The motion urges us all, especially those of us who are in Government, not just to unite to support women's rights in speeches and motions, but to unite in action, to speak up and out when it matters, because we need women in politics, yes, but what is the point if they don't speak up for their sisters?

As we mark International Women's Day, it is right that we both reflect on progress made and reaffirm our collective commitment to accelerate action. And whilst it is certainly not something to celebrate, it is also right that we take time to not just condemn the abuse and intimidation of women in politics, but to also call it out for what it is.

It is a privilege to serve the community that shaped me. When I was growing up, I didn't think becoming a politician was a possibility, not least because politicians didn't seem to look like me or sound like me. I may be from north Wales, but I was made in the trade union movement, and it was trade union women who gave me that final push to put myself forward for election. I am proud to be part of an institution and a party that has a strong track record when it comes to the representation of women. Having more women doesn't just change the face of our politics, it changes the focus. It doesn't just shift the tone, it shapes the topics, and our politics is at its best when we treat each other with the dignity and respect that we deserve as fellow citizens. We can disagree without bowing down to the lowest common denominator. 

In my short debate last week, I talked about how sexual harassment in the workplace is a microcosm of a wider societal issue, one that too often has been accepted as the norm. The same can be said about the abuse and intimidation of women in politics. It is the amplification of systemic misogyny that women of all walks of life still face. But whilst it may be systemic, the way in which women politicians are targeted and treated feels often like misogyny and sexism on steroids. That's why we can't just condemn; it has to be called out. One of the most powerful ways that we can do this is by using our platform and this place to share our experiences. 

I've spoken before about the toxic mix of misogyny and homophobia that I have faced since being elected. They range from the random comments like, 'How can she be your wife? You're both women' and 'Who cares who you have sex with?' to the man who opened his contact with me saying, 'Good morning, Hannah. I was shocked to read today that you are—how can I put it politely—in a same-sex relationship. You appear intelligent, you're certainly very attractive, hence my complete shock. There is more of it about these days but that doesn't make it right, though, and all those Labour politicians encouraging you doesn't help'. They go on to say that it's wrong but, despite that, he doesn't hate me. 

Then we move on to the more sinister. The same person didn't just contact me and my wife; they also e-mailed a number of male colleagues and, I found out much later on, my dad. The self-declared evangelist told me I should leave my wife, needed saving from my homosexuality, the homosexual gene doesn't exist, and I needed my mindset reprogramming to make me heterosexual. Not long after this, my wife also received a separate voice message on her work number in this place, essentially telling her she was going to burn in hell. This is simply a snapshot. 

The abuse of women in politics is bad enough, but the fact that our families are often targeted is beyond the pale. In my case, on numerous occasions, the person I love most in the world has been targeted largely because chance meant they met and married me. And as Sioned Williams has said, if we are going to call out and challenge in order to change, then it has to apply, however hard that is, right across politics and public life within this place and within our own parties.

A good few years ago now, there was a call to my constituency office—an anonymous tip-off, if you can call it that—that some homophobic comments could be aired in a formal public process for a former fairly senior representative from my own party. As you would imagine, I was distressed and tried to find out more. So, to cut a long story short, eventually I got a copy of the messages and what had been said: a conversation with sexually inappropriate and homophobic undertones about me and my now wife. I can recount the slurs to the sublimely ridiculous smears. At the time, I was made aware that someone had apparently approached a top tabloid with a spurious story that, allegedly, I was a shopaholic who had used a ministerial car to take my wife shopping and made a colleague late for an important meeting, and that allegedly there was another Minister willing to back the so-called story up. Clearly, it never went anywhere as it was completely and utterly untrue, although, when I reflect now, I'm not sure whether to feel further aggrieved that, apparently, after going through our social media, the tabloid reporter concluded that I didn't possibly look like a shopaholic. I think there were more photos of dogs than Dior. [Laughter.]   

I've never shared any of this before and I do so today simply to shine a spotlight on the sort of thing that women in politics and public life have, for too long, been expected just to put up with and get on with it. So, we have to stand together to challenge and change, whatever form that takes and wherever it comes from. But, for me, above everything, it still remains a privilege to serve to try and make a difference to my community and my country, and I do want to be absolutely clear that although at times it has been tested, the positive still by far outweighs the negative.

And I'm able to be here today and who I am today because of the women who came before me and paved the way. Inspirational women are all around us—in the Siambr, in our communities and in workplaces across the country. The women that most inspire me are the women that have been and continue to be the beating heart of our communities. They don't make the headlines nor the history books, but they are nearly always lifelines, and it is for them and all the young girls growing up in Wales today that we persist and we resist.

International Women's Day is always an important day in the calendar for me, as it's a day for us all to reflect on the amazing achievements and contributions of women here in Wales and all across the globe. More importantly, it's a day to acknowledge the fact that many women still face major struggles in the pursuit of equality. International Women's Day serves as a rallying cry for continued action to help create a world where women, regardless of their skin colour, sexual orientation or background, can live freely, with opportunity, support and equality. I'm very proud to say that, in Wales, women have broken barriers in every single field, including politics. If we look around the Chamber, we have the UK's longest serving female Minister sitting in the front row alongside Wales's first female First Minister. And, if you look much closer to home, the Welsh Parliament's first ethnic minority female here. But this International Women's Day offers us a chance, perhaps now more so than ever before, to look at the increasing hostile environment politicians do indeed face. It saddens me to say—and I've experienced it myself, and I know many in the Chamber have as well—abuse will never put me off a job, but it's easy to see how, for so many people, it can indeed do just that, and it's simply not acceptable. We all get into politics because we want to give something back: to serve our communities, to support our constituents, and we should not be forced to put up with abuse, hostility and hate for doing just that.

As the Senedd looks to expand in 2026, and although it's a concept that I don't agree with, I am sure we will all want to see a fresh crop of talented, well-rounded politicians from all walks of life sitting amongst us here in the Chamber, going forward. But I fear those efforts will be hampered by the high levels of abuse some politicians, particularly women, do indeed face here today in 2025. Striving to tackle abuse against politicians is probably one of the very few things that does indeed unite us, regardless of whichever party we sit in here in this Chamber. Each and every single one of us have a responsibility to call abuse out when we see it. Only by doing that can we create a better future and a safe political environment for generations to come.

Presiding Officer, I know I've touched on politics, but Welsh women have indeed been trailblazers in so many other areas, including science, the arts and business. As politicians, we get to meet some truly wonderful people, and I have had the honour of meeting some remarkable women in lots of different fields since being elected here in 2021, and I want to pay tribute to them as we mark International Women's Day here today. From the incredible campaigners fighting for noble causes, the hard-working volunteers who carry out fantastic work in our communities, to the selfless care givers, fundraisers, community leaders, family members and friends—the list really does go on. But even as we acknowledge these women's accomplishments and achievements, we cannot ignore the persistent barriers women continue to face in the workplace, in access to education, in healthcare, and also in leadership positions. As we celebrate International Women's Day, let us renew our commitment to the principles of equality and justice. Let us ensure that every single girl and every woman has the opportunity to reach her full potential. This isn't a women-only issue; this is a 'we' issue, and that requires a collective effort from each and every single one of us here today.

So, on this International Women's Day 2025, let us reflect on how far we've come, celebrate the incredible women who've paved the way, and pledge to do our part in making a world where women's voices are not only heard but supported, nurtured, united and, ultimately, empowered. Thank you.

To mark International Women's Day, Jess Phillips MP stood in the House of Commons and read the names of every woman killed by a man in the UK over the past year. It took over four minutes to read them all—95 women. That's 95 lives stolen, 95 families shattered, 95 futures taken away. Unless we act, this list will continue to grow. The latest femicide census reveals a grim reality: a woman has been killed every three days in the UK since 2009. This is not an unfortunate coincidence, it's a pattern—a pattern of misogyny, of unchecked male violence, and of a justice system that is failing women time and time again. These women weren't statistics; they were daughters, sisters, mothers, friends, women who had every right to feel safe in their own homes, in their own communities. And yet too many of them were failed, failed by institutions that didn't believe them, by a system that didn't protect them, and by a society that too often looks away. Let's be clear, violence against women is not just a crisis, it's a national emergency, and yet it isn't treated as such. We have a long-standing public safety campaign in the UK—campaigns for fire hazards, road safety, workplace accidents—but where is that same urgency for tackling domestic abuse and gender-based violence?

Women's Aid's latest campaign, 'The Ignored Emergency', makes the scale of the problem undeniable: women are 50 times more likely to be injured by their partner than in a house fire. They're more than three times more likely to be killed by a partner than by not wearing a seatbelt. And yet, while the dangers of fires and road accidents have been met with decades of public awareness campaigns, the same can't be said for domestic abuse. The truth is, tackling male violence against women requires more than just words; it requires action. That means better education, more support for survivors, tougher action against perpetrators, and a justice system that actually delivers justice. And it means treating domestic abuse and femicide as the national emergency they so clearly are.

So, I ask the Cabinet Secretary, what is the Welsh Government doing to ensure this crisis is met with the urgency it demands? What steps are being taken to ensure that not one more woman ends up on that list? Every single name read out in Westminster was one name too many, and it's our responsibility, every single one of us in this Chamber, to make sure that list never grows longer again. As the femicide census says:

'Every dead woman is one too many'.

Diolch.

I'm really pleased that we're having this, a proper debate here today, and it's great that all the parties have come together to submit this motion.

Over the last few days, over the last week, it's been such a pleasure to attend the large number of events that are now held to mark International Women's Day. I've been to youth centres in the constituency, I've been to a women's arts exhibition, I've been to meet women who work in global solidarity. It's so important to see how many people mark this day. I think it's important that we do recognise, as many people have said, where progress is being made for women across Wales. I think there is a much greater drive to raise awareness of the achievements of women and an acknowledgment that there has been a systematic under-recognition of women in public life.

On Friday, we launched the nineteenth purple plaque in Swansea, in honour of Amy Dillwyn, a remarkable woman who wrote six novels and was the first woman industrialist of the nineteenth century. The purple plaque scheme was set up in 2017 from a group of women here in this Senedd to honour remarkable women across Wales who have, perhaps, been forgotten in the history books. Each of the 19 women who have had plaques mark a unique contribution to Welsh life, and there are plans for another few this year.

We've also heard already today the mention of the exhibition that's here in the Senedd about the monumental Welsh women statues that have also brought to the forefront the need for more statues of women, and, as somebody said at the launch, unless depicted as angels, there are hardly any women recognised in this way. So, I think it's great that we've got these statues installed right across Wales, and I'm particularly proud, as the Cabinet Secretary said, about the statue of Betty Campbell, the first black headteacher in Butetown, which is in the centre of Cardiff, and who I knew well.

I think it's also progress that more women are entering political life, not just here in the Senedd but in our local authorities and in Westminster. When I went to Westminster in 1997, there were four women out of 40 going from Wales, and things have really improved since then, so I think we should celebrate it. It's really important that we do change the make-up of political institutions because that will influence how we make our policies, and we will make certain that it is representative of the views of all people in society.

I also want to mark that this is the first International Women's Day when we have a woman First Minister, and I think that is a huge step forward, and I think it will make a real difference to how we are operating, and how we will operate.

But then we have to come to the other side of it, that, in many ways, women have continued to take steps backward, and I think this is another important reason why International Women's Day is so important, as it creates a focus around which we can talk about this. We've already heard about the rates of domestic violence and abuse continuing to be stubbornly high, and women and girls remain the main victims of domestic abuse. Figures from the crime survey for England and Wales, published in November last year, showed that, out of the 2.3 million people that experienced domestic violence from 2023-24, over 1.6 million were women, and the number of violent attacks against women is also on the rise, with three women in Wales killed last year. Mabon mentioned Jess Phillips reading out the names of the women who had been killed in the UK, and Joyce Watson also does something similar in the event that she organises on White Ribbon Day. It’s so tragic to think that three women in Wales were killed last year.

And there's also the gender pay gap. Women continue to be underpaid, with the gender pay gap standing at 11.3 per cent, according to the Fawcett Society. And last year, in 2024, the UK’s Equal Pay Day, which marks the point when women effectively stop being paid compared to men, fell on 20 November. So, for the rest of that year, women were having nothing compared to men. And really, in this day and age, it's shocking that this is happening.

Last night I attended an event hosted by Hub Cymru Africa, bringing together women who are overseeing the Size of Wales programme in Uganda—it's supported by the Welsh Government—and celebrating the I think it's over 1 million trees that have been planted. And I think it's so important that, as women, we are internationalist, and that we seek opportunities to work with women across the world. And talking at this event last night, which was very inspiring, talking about climate change, I think it's so important to recognise that women are the people who suffer most from climate change—women and children, they bear the brunt of the steps backward.

So, just in conclusion, there are countries where things are progressing well in women’s representation. Iceland is a fantastic example, with nearly everybody a woman in nearly all the positions of power. But then you look at the new regime in the US, and that reminds us that women continue to remain at risk of having our rights rescinded at the drop of a hat. I think we are in an absolutely vulnerable position in the world as it is at the moment. So, all I can really say in conclusion is that it is up to all of us to redouble our efforts to ensure that women around the world are recognised, respected, expanded and entrenched in the positions that they have got. Diolch.

Can I just say how proud I am that we have a female Presiding Officer as well? So, diolch, Llywydd. Thank you to everybody who has spoken today. I have to say, last year, thanks to this Senedd, I had the privilege and honour to speak in the Maltese Parliament, along with my colleague, Rhianon, women from across the Commonwealth. We had one theme in particular, and it was that there is definitely a need for women in politics, and that we don't always get an even hand. But, whilst we keep talking about International Women's Day, and I'm just looking at Joyce now; I'll mention Joyce at the beginning. I have to say that the work you've done and the fact that you're standing down at the next election—I want to thank you personally for the work you've done with the caucus and White Ribbon Day. We don't say 'thank you' often enough, but thank you, Joyce.

We all have a role to play in encouraging more women to enter politics, and for them to have the confidence to run for election. I'm going to pay tribute to Laura Jones. You've ruffled a few feathers today by asking for the definition of a woman. Well, I can tell you—Laura Jones is a woman, Natasha Asghar is a woman, and I want to see these two women back here after the next elections.

Whether it's like I've done over the years—I've been in politics 30 years now—approaching women and asking them to stand has been probably one of the most difficult tasks, really. Ask a man to stand and I've never had any problem, but, too often, too many women say, 'Oh, I couldn't do what you do. I haven't the confidence.' When I've pursued them and they stood, many of them are still councillors now, enjoying their roles, and are grateful for the fact that they were asked to stand.

We do have major challenges facing us as women, but it's nice, Mabon, also that you spoke up today, because it's not always women that should keep beating the drum for the support for women—we need you men to speak up. In the 14 years that I've been here, I haven't, apart from you today, Mabon, heard too many examples of men standing up and actually saying, 'We need more support for our women politicians.' So, thank you. Diolch yn fawr.

I have recently—. Over the 30 years I've been elected, it's fair to say we didn't have social media like we have it now, where abuse is so freely given out by somebody on a keyboard who probably wouldn't say it to your face. But it's this last term I've noticed in particular, right from when I stood for election, right through even until now, the abuse, the shocking, offensive comments that you see now. I used to actually pride myself on never blocking anyone on social media, but I make no apology to the people I've had to block. It's been more people in the last 12 months than I've ever blocked, and I see all of you, men and women, abused, and yet you're all doing your best, and I'm incredibly proud of every single woman that's here in politics. We might not always agree with what you say, from different parties, but the fact is you're here and you're prepared to stand up and actually represent your constituents, so well done.

Global statistics from the Economist Intelligence Unit suggest that 38 per cent of women have experienced online violence. Sixty-five per cent know of other women who've been targeted, and 85 per cent have witnessed online violence against other women. ITV Wales found that 80 per cent of MPs and Members of the Welsh Parliament—80 per cent—have felt threatened since being in office, while 43 per cent of us have received death threats. We have to support this accelerating action to support women. Even when conducting our Senedd business and visits, some Members have experienced what they felt was threatening behaviour, and when we see how people have died for their right to be in politics, it is shocking.

I would like to put on record as well my thanks to the three women that we have had in our party, the late Baroness Thatcher, Theresa May and we have Kemi Badenoch now as our leader of our party. [Interruption.] And Liz Truss. [Laughter.] That was an own goal, that was. [Interruption.] No, that wasn't—[Interruption.] That wasn't—[Interruption.] Lordy. Well, anyway, sorry Liz. [Interruption.] Yes. But it's good that we—. As has been rightly pointed out, we have a female First Minister, which is really good.

We have to have that right to protest. We must be respected and protected. There is currently a culture in which it is deemed acceptable to attack politicians, male and female, and to treat them with absolute contempt. It cannot be allowed to continue. As it stands, this type of behaviour will naturally act as a deterrent to more women coming into politics. It is not just in politics that we see abuse. We see it having an impact on women and young girls. Research by Girlguiding Wales shows that online abuse is shaping the career choices of girls. More than 36 per cent are put off certain jobs, including politics, because of the abuse. In our Welsh Parliament, we have a Youth Parliament of some 60 Members, both young men and young women. We have school councils, mock elections, and I am always encouraged by how eloquent, informed and confident these young people are. Again, sadly, once they pursue their education and other careers, some of that political knowledge and interest wanes, so more needs to be done to nurture this interest and enthusiasm in our younger people. It is a duty—

Janet, I'm really reluctant to ask you to complete your statement, because you started by complimenting me and I shouldn't really be stopping you in your tracks now. But you are—. I've been very generous, because you've been very generous.

Yes, you have indeed. All I would say is: women, keep on fighting. You have a right to be here, and always remember that. And men in this Chamber, Members, please speak up sometimes to support us more. Well done, Mabon.

Some people question why it is we need International Women's Day. Well, the reason that we mark this day each year is not only so that we can celebrate our empowered sisters, it is not only so that we can champion how far we've come, the gains we've made, it is also about bewailing the gaping chasm between where we stand and where we should be—yes, bewailing. We should be howling about how a woman or girl is killed every 10 minutes by an intimate partner or family member. We should be shouting about how websites exist to count dead women, to catalogue their loss: women killed, targeted, because they are women. 

Now, these statistics that we've heard in the Chamber this afternoon, they are stubborn. They have been unshifting for years. And so often it's referred to as violence against women, as though it were a passive act, perpetrated by who knows who, rather than being referred to as male violence. We need more women to enter politics, we need more women shouting about these issues, not just on this day but every day, because those statistics' stubbornness suggests that they've been accepted as immovable, a fact of life. But there is nothing natural about this violence, nor is there anything natural about the abuse, harassment, stalking that so disproportionately affect female survivors, the gendered abuse too many feel they must accept as unavoidable. It must be made to be abhorrent, something not tolerated, something abnormal.

We need more women in politics to force those changes in our society to happen. And it's a lot to expect of other women, a lot to put on the shoulders of those we'd wish to protect, to amplify. It isn't women who should have to be forced to be more robust, to have thicker skin, ready to shut out the hatred and the ugliness they'll have to accept. No, it's the spaces we all inhabit that must change. The spheres where politics happen have to be made more welcoming, have to be made more accessible, have to house more women, because this day should just be a day of celebration—uncomplicated joy, revelling. But, until we reach that day, we have a duty to raise our voices, to speak up for those women who are not here but are relying on us. And in the words of Jasmin Kaur, to

'scream / so that one day / a hundred years from now / another sister will not have to / dry her tears wondering / where in history / she lost her voice'.

Let's keep raising our voices, because we have not come this far to only come this far. 

I'm very pleased to join Mabon as a man taking part in this debate today. It is a very important debate, Llywydd, and, having been here from the beginning, along with three others here today, I'm very pleased to say that, right from the very beginning, the presence of many women in the Assembly, as it was originally, compared to many other Parliaments and political institutions, was something that was highlighted at the time and has been highlighted since, although we know there's more work to do. But, generally, I think it's been very positive in showing Wales in a very progressive light, and it's really good to have a woman First Minister now, as well as yourself in the Presiding Officer's chair, Llywydd, and so many other women who have been here along that journey since 1999 and are here with us today. It's very, very important that we set that example and build on the progress that we've made. 

Julie Morgan mentioned Size of Wales, and I was at the event today, Julie, for Size of Wales, and we met Deborah Nabulobi, who is here representing Mbale in Uganda as part of that Size of Wales programme. Twenty-five million trees have been planted, and it was so good to hear Deborah talking about the programme, including the way that it's empowered herself and other women in her community. She told us that she now intends to stand as a councillor in Mbale, and she's determined, as she put it, to make her voice heard ever louder in her community, including for the rights of women and further progress for women. So, that's just one aspect, I think, of the benefits of the programme for Africa, and a very important one. 

Llywydd, in Newport, we're lucky to have Women of Newport, an organisation started some six years ago by my constituent, Kamila Jarczak. This group has grown into a diverse collection of women from all parts of the city and has its own unique and inspiring stories. Just some of them are: Dee Montague-Coast, who again, by coincidence, was here today at an endometriosis event at the Pierhead. Dee is a real advocate, a passionate advocate, for women's health issues, with a particular focus on raising awareness around endometriosis. Another really good example from Women of Newport is Ingrid Wilson, who has worked tirelessly for many, many years to bring different ethnic minorities together with longer established parts of the community in Newport, with a focus on Community House in Maindee in the city, and has really made progress in creating a more cohesive society for us in Newport, for which we are very grateful. And Nazia Akhtar, who, through her A Taste of Maindee recipe book, brought the community together around a collection of recipes and dishes and cooking events.

These women, Llywydd, and many other women involved were showcased in a photo exhibition in the Pierhead last year, which I was proud to sponsor and that had previously been sponsored by my colleague, neighbour and friend, Jayne Bryant. It really brought the reality of what's happening in Newport and some of the empowerment that features to a much wider audience. Again, all of this work will be built on as we move forward.

The group in Newport has, as its aim, to strive to empower women, groups and communities in the city by promoting social inclusion and engaging in various projects. They are making a difference for individuals by supporting positive ventures run by groups and businesses, and they really connect the city and the wider area with the creativity, heritage and uniqueness of Newport.

I am sure that there are groups like this all over Wales, Llywydd, doing such good work, and they really do have a critical role to play because they are inspiring the next generation of women in the city of Newport and right across Wales. And, as is the theme this year for International Women's Day, it is about accelerating progress. They establish groups. They establish ventures and businesses and support them, and then they make sure that they flourish and grow. They are a great example to everyone in the city, and we really should celebrate their success.

Sisterhood is a notable characteristic of this Senedd, I believe. When I made my first contribution in the Siambr, it was a very pleasant experience because I felt supported and encouraged by the other women in the Siambr. That female solidarity remains to this day, and it is a source of much needed strength in challenging times.

It is that sisterhood that has led to this jointly tabled motion today, as we continue to face stubborn challenges and as we come together with one voice to condemn abuse and hatred of women, and as we support each other in an increasingly difficult climate. Certainly, we need to condemn abuse. We also need to challenge it, if we are to eradicate it.

On Saturday, on International Women’s Day itself, I had the pleasure of joining a number of women who are authors at a very special event in Caernarfon. One of the books under discussion was a literary collection called Hi/Hon. In an honest and insightful text, one of Wales's most prominent authors, namely Manon Steffan Ros, describes the experience of being a woman in Welsh-speaking Wales, and the difficulty of challenging abusers when one moves in the same circles.

But abuse must be challenged, because, as the author says in her text, not much changes. Serious crimes continue to be committed, as well as all of the more minor misdemeanours—those things that are almost seen as nothing. Those things that are almost seen as nothing, as Manon Steffan Ros says, these are the things that must be challenged in order to create permanent change. And to challenge them, we need everybody’s support, including men, and there are many supportive men, thank goodness. And, in order to challenge them, we must educate and provide an equal voice for women in all aspects of public life. Thank you.

Minister, I want to thank you for this important debate today. The call to accelerate action is crucial and I welcome the Welsh Government’s commitment to it. But I must pay tribute to you, for all your work over the years towards these aims. From founding Wales’s first refuge in the 1970s through to your ministerial work, you have consistently driven change, and I think it would be wholly unfair not to recognise that here today. And I think that’s what’s good about today: people are recognising what other people have done. There is, as Siân Gwenllian said, a sisterhood that has come together and that is why this debate is here. And it is pleasing—and we know it anyway—that there are many, many men who will always fight for, speak out and uphold the rights of women, and many of those are here in this Chamber.

I’m going to focus today on the work to tackle violence against women, and we know that every single year it seems to grow. We have events throughout the year and they culminate in the International Day to Eliminate Violence Against Women and Girls, White Ribbon Day, on 25 November. We hear from very brave women who tell us about their stories of surviving; we hear from women who work on the front line to aid that survival and to help those women through the very worst times in their lives; and we hear from decision makers around the challenges they face and the reality of life after, having seen things at the sharp end.

We know that the ultimate price of violence is death. We have attempted to honour the Welsh women who have been killed, and many people here have talked today about the femicide census, and it has tracked the number of women who’ve been killed by men since 2009. Their recent publication is their '2000Women' report, and I think that—. That’s a report based on the first 2,000 completed cases that they have recorded. That is a frightening, grim figure. It’s hard almost to think about that.

Of the 104 femicides in Wales, 41 were in the South Wales Police area, 25 in the North Wales Police area, 19 in the Dyfed-Powys area and, again, 19 in the Gwent Police region. And the report demonstrates what we all know: that rurality is no protection against violence against women. Within that report, it shows that Dyfed-Powys Police Authority has the seventh highest rate of femicide per population, with the North Wales Police region at the ninth highest out of 43 police forces across the UK.

Other telling details are that one in eight women killed by men are over 70 years of age, and that more than 170 mothers have been killed by their sons. The most dangerous place for these women is behind closed doors. For seven out of 10 women killed by men, it happens in their own home. Six in 10 are killed by their partners, and almost one in 10 by their sons. Nine per cent are killed by strangers. These shocking statistics require a strong response.

I am pleased that the UK Government has pledged to halve the levels of violence against women and girls in a decade by targeting perpetrators, addressing the root causes of abuse and violence. At the same time, the Welsh Government has always been clear that it wants to end all violence against women and girls, and it's strengthening the violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence strategy to include a focus on violence against women in the street and the workplace, as well as the home. It's only by instilling a collective sense of effort towards achieving our objectives that we can make a real change. It will take all of society to tackle violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence.

Finally, I want to talk about children who witness domestic abuse. In some cases, they will become perpetrators. In all cases, they are victims. They have adverse childhood experiences, their lives are blighted from the very start. I want to pay tribute here to the Minister, Lynne Neagle, who recognised that and has done something about it.

But I don't think we can leave an International Women's Day stage without mentioning the women in Afghanistan, whose rights have absolutely and utterly been taken away from them, so that they have virtually no rights at all left to them. They can't be seen, they can't be heard, they can't be educated, they don't even have the right to other females when they need medical attention. And in the United States, at the moment, women's rights over their own bodies are being removed, and the misogynistic individual who is in charge has surrounded himself with even greater misogynistic people around that table, and are a threat to all of us. Thank you.

I think all the contributions we've heard today remind us all why International Women's Day is absolutely necessary. Reflecting on the website of International Women's Day and the theme for this year, it asked us to imagine a gender-equal world, a world free of bias, stereotype and discrimination, a world that's diverse, equitable and inclusive, a world where difference is valued and celebrated. Reflecting on the comments that we've heard just now from Joyce, and also Sioned Williams reminding us that with the cuts to international aid, this is what matters. We have global responsibility here in Wales and we must use our voice; even in those areas that we don't have competencies over, we must use our voice. There's a responsibility.

I would like to pay tribute to every woman before me that has had to fight, and all those that still to continue to fight for equality, wherever they are in the world. It has made a difference. Personally, for me, I would like to say thank you to my mother. She has told me of a story when she, in the 1970s, applied for a position at work that she really wanted to go for, was absolutely qualified for, and when she walked into that room, the men who were interviewing said, 'Oh, it's you, we can have a tea break now.' And she never had that interview. She fought that as a union rep, and it meant that a woman was eventually in that role, although not my mother. But those are the prejudices that generations before mine faced, and I was never told that I couldn't do anything. I wasn't told that I was a girl, so I couldn't go for that job, and I appreciate that.

But we still see those stereotypes repeated. We are told, 'A typical girl', 'A typical boy', 'You can't do this, you can't do that'. Girls in school come in in princess dresses, and the boys can be princes. All that has to stop, and those are things that we can change here, because every boy and girl can be absolutely anything, and we should embrace that.

One place where that is extremely obvious at present is sport, and I was pleased to hear the Cabinet Secretary mention sport, because, after all, Lauren Price at the weekend, coming out to 'Yma o Hyd', cheered by some people in this Chamber, and captured on television—how wonderful was that? I'm glad that you reflected in terms of the Euros; this is a significant moment. And also, the Women's World Cup, the women's team will be competing, and the fact that the AIG Women's Open tournament is coming to Wales for the first time. It's not only a big moment for Welsh women in sport, but sport in Wales that will celebrate women from across the world. Because one of the things that we'll see when we will be cheering the Welsh women's team in the Euros is the fact that it's the first time in a major tournament that we'll be able to cheer the women on, on that international stage. They will show that girls can be strong, brave, fast and sporty, just like their male counterparts. It does matter.

Let's be clear: the fight for equality is far from over, and sexism continues to be rife. You only need to look at Neath RFC's social media post last night, advertising an upcoming derby match with the following words plastered over it: 'This one isn't for the faint-hearted. This one isn't for the half-committed. This one is definitely NOT FOR GIRLS'. I note today that the club has apologised and deleted the post, which, of course, is to be welcomed, but it should never have happened in the first place. That's where we need to get to, not apologies, because it's too late at that point; it shouldn't have to happen. And I don't accept the excuse that it was part of a wider campaign. I don’t accept that. Because we've seen issues with the Welsh Rugby Union, and anyone who thinks that that kind of messaging is acceptable deserves to be called out. But those who called out last night on social media also faced abuse—those who were calling it out. And we need to stand by others who are trying their best in sport, those who are reporting on sport, because they suffer a great deal of abuse as well.

When we look to this summer of sport, when we will be cheering, I think it is an opportunity for Government to reflect on how we can use these opportunities to also promote gender equality. Because investing in sporting infrastructure to meet the increasing demand for girls who will want to participate in sport is something that has to be supported by Government, making sure that the facilities are accessible and welcoming, ensuring that every girl who wishes to engage in sport has the opportunity to do so, and promoting Wales on the world stage, our values, our commitment to gender equality and the empowerment of women through sport, but also in actions. The achievements of our female athletes, the visibility of women in sport and the support from our Government are pivotal in tackling gender inequality and promoting a healthier, more active lifestyle for women.

As we look towards the legacy of this International Women's Day, let us, yes, celebrate the progress we have made, but also commit to the work that still lies ahead. Together we can build a legacy that ensures that every girl in Wales has the opportunity to shine both on and off the field and in every field.

The Cabinet Secretary now to reply to the debate—Jane Hutt.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Thank you so much to everyone today for this really powerful, inspiring debate. I don't feel that I need to say very much, because I think the contributions are on the record, and they're really important contributions—the way we can speak up together across this Chamber in such a clear and important way. It is important that International Women's Day is a time when we do celebrate women in politics, and it's so good that we've actually celebrated and recognised all the contributions made by women across this Chamber in so many different capacities and circumstances. Natasha, you referred to all the women in life in the community as well as in politics—it's great. John Griffiths, you talked about the women of Newport. It's wonderful that Julie Morgan talked about the 19 purple plaques, and the first one is out there, isn't it? It's our Val Feld. Some of us, of course, remember Val and the amazing impact she has had on just creating this more inclusive Senedd that we hold so dear and where we want to see that diverse representation as we move forward to that really important date next year when we have an opportunity to bring more young women and girls, more diverse women, into this Senedd.

But we do see progress being made, glass ceilings are being shattered, and we have to play our part in that. It’s our responsibility to lower the ladder, help empower others to climb to the highest rungs, to show that leadership. I think many of us who met young women last week as part of the Elect Her gathering, the young women who were coming, they were so strong, they were so resilient, they wanted to come and make their contribution. But we have to recognise that women and girls across Wales have the opportunity to fulfil their potential, if we can actually make sure that we have the opportunities that we can offer, and we break down those barriers that still impede so many women and girls to participate in life and business and politics and the economy and public services in Wales. Fifty-one per cent of the population of Wales are women, they must not be subjected to decades of delay before they get equal access to opportunities, rights and responsibilities.

I am grateful that there has been a focus on tackling violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence, because it cannot be the case that we are in this position today. And thank you, Mabon ap Gwynfor, for speaking up as you have done on so many occasions about this, thank you to Joyce Watson, thank you to Juile Morgan, because the violence, domestic abuse and sexual violence that women and girls face is unacceptable, it’s prevalent, it’s endemic, and we have to address it. Ten years on from the Violence against Women, Domestic Abuse and Sexual Violence (Wales) Act 2015, we still have so much more that we need to do.

We need to address this, and it’s an absolute responsibility every day for us to address it, particularly in my role. I think it is important that we look to education to help us with this. I’ve mentioned the Sound campaign. It is about men and boys and male politicians taking responsibility, as they do as white ribbon ambassadors. But schools can be catalysts for change, and I think they will be with the new curriculum rolling out. We’re proud of our relationship and sexuality education, fundamental to forging respectful attitudes to women and girls. I remind everyone that Hwb contains teaching resources and training covering issues including online bullying, online sexual harassment, along with practical information for families about how they discuss these issues with children and advice for young people themselves.

Can I thank those who shared their personal experience, and particularly thank Hannah Blythyn for her contribution today? I’m so proud of your leadership, Hannah, in terms of the LGBTQ action plan. The way you have influenced and shared your personal experiences has been so important. Of course, we made a statement only a few weeks ago about the LGBTQ+ action plan, about the history week. It was really important we made that statement, and thank you for your contributions.

It is also important that we look at women’s rights as human rights. Thank you, Sioned, also for again questioning me about the importance of how we want to advance human rights protections with CEDAW. I can reassure you that, in the human rights advisory group that I chair, we do have a legislative options working group looking at how we can incorporate CEDAW and UNCRDP into Welsh law and how we can look at non-legislative as well as legislative options. We’re putting funding in to try to take that forward.

It is an opportunity today for us to again recommit ourselves across this Chamber to accelerating action across every level of policy that has been shared and reflected upon today—including sport, as you said, Heledd, the positives and the negatives, and how we should address that. Let’s just look at the annual survey of hours and earnings that did show that the overall gender pay gap for full and part-time workers in Wales has reduced by 2.6 per cent from the previous year, but, as in previous years, the gender pay gap does remain lower in Wales than in the UK as a whole. But women are more likely to work part time, in lower paid occupations, and the gender pay gap is 8.9 per cent in Wales and 13.1 per cent in the UK. So, while we can welcome progress, there's more work to be done.

In conclusion, Llywydd, the World Economic Forum, as I said, the UN and global partners across the world know we have challenges that we have to share, not just here in this Chamber, the women and the people that we represent in Wales, but also with our partners as well. Thank you, John and Julie, for mentioning the fantastic, inspirational Deborah and Helen, who shared time with us in the canteen—many of us met them—about how they are deeply affected in Africa by climate change and deforestation, but how they're empowering women to play a leadership role, and how we are supporting them across the world through our Size of Wales initiative. What inspirational women.

Today we are co-tabling this motion, and we've got to commit ourselves to it, to unite to condemn intimidation of women in politics and abuse of women. We must unite also and take responsibility to advance women's equality and representation in Wales. It's been such a huge privilege to serve in the Welsh Parliament for so many years, and it only came about because I believed that, if we believed in social justice, and we believed in women's equality, then we had to stand up, join and put ourselves forward. There are many women around this Chamber who did this, and, I have to say, it's been such an honour and privilege to be part of that movement. I think, yes, we have influenced things, haven't we, John, Elin, Eluned, Joyce, Julie, and everyone, Janet Finch-Saunders. We have influenced the way we do Government and we do politics here in Wales, and that's why we need to welcome all those diverse women who are going to come and join us as we move forward into May 2026. Diolch yn fawr. 

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. The motion is, therefore, agreed.

We have just one vote at voting time, and unless three Members wish for the bell to be rung, we will proceed directly to that vote.

That vote is on item 10, the Landfill Disposals Tax (Tax Rates) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2025. I call for a vote on the motion, tabled in the name of Jane Hutt. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 38, no abstentions and 14 against. Therefore, the regulations are agreed.

That concludes voting and brings our proceedings to a close. Thank you.