Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru

Good afternoon and welcome, everyone, to this Plenary session. We begin our session this afternoon on a very sad note, following the news on Friday about the passing of Dafydd Elis-Thomas, a close friend to many here, a political comrade to many too, and an enigma to all.

Dafydd was the first Llywydd of our Assembly, his Assemblée Nationale, as he liked to call it. This Senedd today is what it is because, to a very great extent, of Dafydd Elis Thomas. And, certainly, all of us in this wonderful Senedd building, and this wonderful Siambr, are here because of Dafydd’s vision and perseverance. Our appreciation is great for his 12 years at the helm. His legacy is a robust Senedd for his nation, and that is quite a legacy. 

The First Minister will lead tributes to him, but, before that, let us all, and all of the Senedd staff, rise for a minute’s silence to remember the life and work of Dafydd Elis-Thomas.

Thank you, all. The First Minister. 

Today we honour Dafydd Elis-Thomas, a colleague, but also someone that many of us knew as a friend. It was difficult not to come across Dafydd in Welsh political life. His life’s journey is similar to a historic volume of modern Welsh history. Dafydd’s story was interwoven in the fabric of our nation.

As the youngest Member of Parliament in the House of Commons in 1974, he broke new ground from the very outset. But, to those of us who knew him better, he was far more than a lengthy list of his achievements during his career. He was an incredible character—a political giant, with a mischievous side. He was a master at building political bridges, and he succeeded in doing that whilst appearing to be entirely effortless, always principled, always constructive.

His political path was unexpected in many ways, from protesting against the investiture of Prince Charles in Caernarfon castle, to taking his place in the House of Lords.

I always found his journey fascinating, from youth rebel to member of the House of Lords, and I loved the way some wag adjusted Catatonia’s song, 'Every day when I wake up / I thank the Lord I’m Welsh', as Dafydd adapted that to, 'Every day when I wake up / I thank the Welsh I’m Lord'.

He went from leading the Plaid Cymru youth section to being the favourite rebel of the institution. Indeed, he was a rebel. His period as our first Presiding Officer for 12 years was characteristic of Dafydd. He succeeded to be this institution’s greatest defender, but its most esteemed critic too. He battled tirelessly for the respect and resources needed by our young democracy, and he helped to establish this institution when it was a fragile flower.

He encapsulated the best of the Welsh intellectual tradition—learned, but always humble, serious about its culture, but always ready with a sparky response in one language or the other.

He had the ability of making news headlines, such as stating that there was no Welsh-speaking heartland, but then he appeared to be in shock by the excitement that that generated, whilst trying to suppress a smile. And yet, along with that mischievous side, he was a man of serious intent.

Beyond politics, Dafydd was a kind and generous friend, always ready with wise counsel and warm words of encouragement. I first knew Dafydd when I was a researcher in the media, setting up filming opportunities across the continent, where he promoted his passion for the historical, cultural and political links between Europe and Wales. And, later, I helped to curate a late-night tv chat show that he hosted on S4C, Hwyr neu Hwyrach.

Dafydd influenced not just Plaid Cymru, but also the Welsh Labour Party as well. The shift from the more unionist tradition, which dominated the party up until the 1990s, to the devolved structures and beliefs we hold today, was helped along the way because of sensible but passionate advocates of devolution, such as Dafydd. And, as it turns out, he was also our secret weapon for a full house. The Cymdeithas Cledwyn event at the Labour Party conference had never been more successful than the year Dafydd agreed to be the guest. But that was him—he could always transcend party lines, bringing people together through friendships that mattered more than political divides. He understood that, whilst we might sit on opposite benches, we were all there to serve Wales, and he made the most of every connection, always with warmth, generosity and just the right amount of charm. He was so proud of becoming a Welsh Government Minister, and he said it was the greatest accomplishment of his career. And the portfolio he worked on really leant into his strengths—tourism, culture, the arts and heritage.

He'd always have a go at things. On one occasion, he went on a visit to Zip World. The sight of a Lord bouncing up and down on a trampoline in the caverns in Llechwedd was, I'm told, a sight to behold. And in classic Dafydd style, when he emerged from the chwarel, he pointed to a plaque on the wall that he'd unveiled 40 years previously. That was Dafydd. He'd been everywhere and he knew everyone.

We worked alongside each other during the pandemic, and anyone who went through that together in Government is bonded for life. In every role, he brought that same combination of gravitas and gentle wit, with a remarkable ability to make even the most formal occasions just feel more human, without ever losing sight of the serious work at hand. His passion for our culture and language was infectious, challenging us all to think deeper about what it meant to be Welsh—sometimes controversially, but always thoughtfully. While he could ignite fierce debate, it always came from a place of profound love for Wales and an unshakeable belief in its future.

To Mair and the entire family, we share in your profound loss. But we hope that you can take comfort in knowing that Dafydd's legacy lives on, not just in the institutions he helped build, but in the countless lives he touched with his kindness, wisdom and unwavering passion for his country. Wales has lost one of its greatest servants, leaving an indelible mark on the nation's democratic journey. His presence will always be felt here, and his vision of a proud, confident and culturally vibrant Wales will continue to inspire generations to come.

More than that, his example in terms of how to serve with passion and humour, with principle and friendliness, will continue to be an inspiration for all of us who had the privilege of knowing him. Dafydd, we will miss you greatly, and I will forever be grateful for the example you set, for your kindness and your friendship. Good night, dear friend. Rest in peace.

The leader of the Conservatives, Darren Millar.

It's with deep sadness today that we mark the passing of Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas, and our hearts do go out to Mair and all his loved ones, who are very much in our thoughts and prayers at this time.

It's no understatement to say that Dafydd was a titan of Welsh politics. His journey from an anti-establishment nationalist to a statesman at the heart of Wales's institutions was nothing short of remarkable.

He was a swanky dresser. There was always a silk handkerchief in the pocket, and he used to put up a good fight with David Melding, in terms of his snappy dress sense at times, but I think Dafydd always had the edge because he had matching socks to go with the tie and hanky too. [Laughter.]

And, of course, he was a man of great intellect, wit and conviction, never afraid to challenge the status quo, yet always open to the evolution of his own thoughts. And having been the first Llywydd of the then newly established National Assembly for Wales, it was Dafydd’s steady hand that helped to cement the Senedd’s place at the heart of our national life and Welsh democracy.

His political journey was unique. He was a proud republican, who once stood outside the system but ultimately found himself within it, becoming a good friend of our now King Charles. And, of course, he became an MP and peer of the realm, and a respected and much loved figure across all political divides. From the Welsh-speaking heartlands of Gwynedd to the dining rooms of Buckingham Palace, Dafydd Elis-Thomas was entirely at home. And what set him apart was not just his political skill, but his warmth, his humour and his ability to bring people together. He was always able to disarm his opponents with a well-placed quip just as easily as he could deliver a great speech with passion and intellect. He was, in every sense, a renaissance man.

Of course, I first met Dafydd while he was the Presiding Officer of the then National Assembly for Wales in 2007, and I can remember many occasions while he was Presiding Officer when he made an impact on my life. I can remember an intensely boring afternoon—and we have many of them in the Senedd, I’m afraid to say—with long statements, and right at the end of business he said, 'That concludes another exciting day in the life of the National Assembly for Wales'.

And, of course, he was a great friend of Wales’s national institutions. One of the institutions which he was passionately supportive of was the National Zoological Society of Wales, the national zoo of Wales, the Welsh Mountain Zoo. And I can remember him going to an event there to mark the opening of a new facility and, as soon as he saw me, he ran over and he said, 'I’ve come to see you in your natural habitat.' [Laughter.]

You know, there are very few politicians who have the privilege of seeing their careers end in triumph, but Dafydd was one of them. And his legacy is not only in the Senedd that he helped to shape, but in the respect, affection and admiration of all who knew him. Wales has, indeed, lost a statesman, we have lost a friend, but his influence will certainly live on for many generations to come. So, rest in peace, Dafydd—

—and thank you for everything.

The leader of Plaid Cymru, Rhun ap Iorwerth. 

Thank you, Llywydd. It was with great sadness that we heard the news on Friday morning about the death of the peerless Dafydd Elis-Thomas. For me, from my very earliest times, he was there: a friend, a friend of the family, an influence, an inspiration in so many different ways. But, for us all, from the very early days of our democracy, Dafydd was there to guide us. He set out his vision on all platforms—on the streets of his community, so young in entering the House of Commons, then to the second chamber, whilst increasingly permeating the public life of our nation, our language, education and then our own Senedd. And yes, the visionary Presiding Officer, the son of the manse, became, in due time, himself a Minister without denomination.

On these benches, of course, we also remember Dafydd for his decades of service to Plaid Cymru—our leader for eight years, but part of our DNA for more than half a century, since he joined the party as a 16-year-old boy at Llanrwst Grammar School. He gave to the party service that was driven by passion for his nation and he left a lasting legacy.

Yes, our relationships with our parties can be complex from time to time, and Dafydd was no different in that regard, but there was a simplicity in the unwavering consistency of Dafydd's love for Wales, and that is what characterised all of his years in public life. Although a great intellectual, Dafydd was a campaigner by instinct. When he was asked once what he was most proud of, he responded without delay by saying that it was ensuring compensation for quarry workers. Yes, Wales is indebted to Dafydd for shaping this Chamber as it is today, but its debt is just as great to him for standing for what was just and what was right, and he shaped our nation in accordance with those values.

Our Senedd couldn’t have wished for a better inaugural Llywydd than Dafydd. He was a political architect, a man of bold vision, with a plan to deliver it. He built bridges across the political divide, perhaps a talent nurtured in the corridors of Westminster amid the turbulence of minority Government in the 1970s. Despite being admirably if not sometimes mischievously uncompromising in his independence of mind, Dafydd viewed consensus as a valuable currency and strived always to find common ground, and, across political divides today, we remember him and appreciate his life’s work.

We will remember his mischievous side, we will remember his talent and his immeasurable contribution to devolution and to Wales. And, on behalf of Plaid Cymru, I send our sincerest condolences to Mair, and to Rolant and Meilyr and Cai, and all the family. May you rest in peace, Dafydd.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas had many friends among my party, and we were very sad to hear about his passing.

He had an incredibly important role in developing a bilingual Assembly, and the settlement that he developed has persisted to this day. I’m going to share a story from Kirsty Williams and her memories of him. They met on an episode of The Midnight Hour in 1997 and, from that moment, he encouraged and challenged her. Her favourite memory would be when they sped through Cardiff in her beaten-up blue Mini from the BBC studios to the count party on the night of the referendum. That night, as the votes came in, Kirsty and the other pro-devolution guests were in despair in the radio studio, but Dafydd never gave up hope. When the Carmarthenshire vote came in, he gave that trademark knowing smile and nod of the head.

Back to the Siambr, when she did FMQs, if he thought she was on to something and doing a good job he would let Kirsty have more questions than she was supposed to have, much to the howls of protest from the Labour benches. If he thought her line of questioning was poor, he would cut her off at the knees. When strong characters pass away, it’s a time to remember that we here as Members of the Senedd stand on the shoulders of giants.

We as Members are here because of the other Members who came before us like Dafydd Elis-Thomas, and they forged a path for us to create a more prosperous future for Wales. Thank you very much, Dafydd.

Dafydd was a political giant, and Wales owes a debt of thanks to him. He made an immeasurable contribution to Welsh politics. Dafydd and I followed similar life paths in many ways. Sons of the manse, we were both born in Carmarthen, before moving to Llandysul, graduating at Bangor University, and then making our homes in Meirionnydd. The fact that I succeeded this political giant to the Senedd that he was so central to creating is a cause of great pride for me. Although an unconventional and enigmatic politician, there was a clear thread running through his political life, namely his passion for Wales, its people and its rich culture, and the people were fond of him too. His incredible success in the 1974 election was testament to that, as he turned Labour strongholds into Plaid Cymru strongholds. It takes strength of character and a magnetic appeal to do that, but that was the power of the appeal of Dafydd El.

He was a sharp politician who knew the hidden paths of British and Welsh politics in order to influence and deliver his objectives. But, despite the force of his argument and his great oratory skill, he noticed over a period of two decades in Westminster that these clear skills weren't going to bring about the successes that he wanted for his nation. So, alternative ways had to be found to influence and bring about the change that he so aspired towards, and he used his networks in order to make gains for Wales and its language. Wales was most important to Dafydd. 

As Presiding Officer of the Assembly, which became a Senedd, was his most important contribution. Dafydd was one of the architects of our Senedd, ensuring that we in Wales had our own legislature for the first time in 600 years, and he normalised the use of the Welsh language through his role as Presiding Officer. He represented the people of Meirionnydd, Meirionnydd Nant Conwy and Dwyfor Meirionnydd with dignity over a period of almost 40 years. As his successor as the Member of the Senedd for Dwyfor Meirionnydd, my personal thanks to him is very great. He was always willing with his support, and he showed huge and unstinting support to me from the moment that I was elected. Sincerest condolences to his family in their loss. Wales has lost a giant. 

We all needed Dafydd Elis-Thomas, didn't we, at different times. I first met him in the 1980s, and we all remember the same events somewhat differently. For me, at that time in the mid 1980s, Wales was a country in conflict; it was a country divided. The holiday homes had been burning a few years previously and the miners were on strike. There were 15 Tory MPs representing Welsh constituencies. We were a country divided amongst ourselves. And then I heard this voice speaking up—a voice that spoke with a vibrant urgency about unity, about the things that bring us together, about who we are as a nation and as a country. Lazy politicians have always sought to create divisions; what Dafydd did was to create unity. There was no north versus south. He wanted to support the colliers of the south Wales coalfield in the same way as he persuaded me later to support the quarry workers in Blaenau Ffestiniog. It was the same struggle. And that vision, that positive, inspiring, uplifting vision I found exhilarating then, and I did when I heard his voice throughout my life. 

Dafydd El's voice was different to most politicians we hear, either then or since. He was the speaker I remember from campaigns to save the Greater London Council, speaking up in London. He was also one of the voices that stood against clause 28. His vision of Wales was one where all of us have a place, where every community is important. And that vision of Wales at peace with itself was possibly the most radical vision of all. And it was that radicalism, that radicalism that he held inside him, that challenged all of us all of the time. That intellect, that humour, that breadth of vision and ambition for our country was able to bridge all of the divisions that we've seen through the years.

And the First Minister talked about Dafydd El being able—I always say 'Dafydd El'; I never say 'Dafydd Elis-Thomas'—to be that bridge, and that bridge between who we have been and who we wanted to be, but also there was a sense of kindness. Do you know—? I remember, in 1998, when Nelson Mandela visited Cardiff, my daughter was two months old. I was absolutely determined: this girl is going to see Nelson Mandela. So, I took her in her pram, or whatever it was, down to Cardiff and I held her up so that she saw Nelson Mandela, and he saw her. And out of nowhere, Dafydd Elis-Thomas appears. 

'This is your daughter?' 'Yes.' 'How old is she?' 'Oh, two months.' 'Wait here.' 

And in the middle of all this melee, he disappears, and after a while he hasn't come back and I'm thinking, 'What's going on here?' And then he reappears with a present for my daughter, a little babygro. And you're just thinking, in the middle of these affairs of state, these major events, Dafydd Elis-Thomas was rushing off to find a present for my two-month-old daughter. And it's something that stays with you, isn't it, that act of unnecessary kindness.

And then I remember him here as the Presiding Officer, as the Llywydd—it means 'president', you know. And I remember then how his vision of this place—.

'It's not a Senedd, Alun; it's an Assembly'. 'Remember, Alun', he said, 

'Assemblée Nationale—you don't know your history.' I remember then the work he did, working, Julie, with Rhodri to save the institution that we had, and I remember, Mark, the contribution you made at that time. Without people with the vision, with the ambition, this place wouldn't have been able to have been established in that way. And we all know as well how he could dominate this Chamber—dominate it with his intellect, dominate it with his knowledge, dominate it with the force of his argument—but also how he challenged all of our lazy assumptions both about things that we thought we knew about and some of the dogma that we all become imprisoned in at different times. He was always challenging us to think again, always challenging us to be something that perhaps we didn't realise we could be. The leader of Plaid Cymru who dismissed independence. The radical reforming Member of the House of Lords. He always challenged all of us, and perhaps his vision of Wales was his greatest challenge of all. 

Llywydd, I remember bumping into him, actually, during the reshuffle when he joined the Government, and I remember that sense of absolute joy to see this man at last in a Government of this country. I invited him to Tredegar and I said to him, 'Look, I want to talk to you about Aneurin Bevan.' 'All right', he says, 'very good.' And I remember inviting a group of councillors to meet him by the clock in Tredegar, and we were waiting, as you do, for a Minister, and these councillors, these Labour councillors, were like children on Christmas morning—you know, 'Where is he?' And he turns up, and we know the way that Dafydd was. He was natural. He was easy. He was engaging, and they were in thrall of him. And when they pointed out No. 10, The Circle—'Oh yes, No. 10, The Circle, that's where Walter Conway had his office.' He knew these things. He knew the history, he knew the culture, he knew the community, he knew what people wanted from him.

And do you know—? More than anything else, what I'll remember, and I'll finish with this point: we were sat in Bedwellty House afterwards with some Welsh cakes and a cup of coffee. We were chatting about different things and the private office says, 'Minister, you've got to go. Minister, you needed to leave an hour ago. Minister, you've got other things to do, you've got to go.' And Dafydd El was chatting away, he was looking at different artefacts in Bedwellty House. He was talking, 'This is where Aneurin Bevan sat on Tredegar town council', all this sort of stuff. And then he leaves—pockets bulging with Welsh cakes, off he goes. And a friend turned round to me and she said, 'What a lovely man. What a lovely man', and we were in Bedwellty House again on Friday just after we'd heard the news. She said again, 'What a lovely man.' Perhaps when we think of Dafydd, we'll think of his lifetime of politics and contribution to this country, to our people and to our nation, but perhaps, Mair, more than anything else, we'll think, 'What a lovely man.'  

I first met Dafydd in person when I was a candidate for the 2003 election, some months before that election when I was speaking at a hustings I think in Coleg Llandrillo, if I remember correctly, and I could see this smiling face in the audience surrounded by students and staff as myself and the other candidates were grilled on myriad matters. Afterwards, after the proceedings ended, he made a beeline for me and very modestly introduced himself, as if I wouldn't know who he was, and to my pleasant surprise encouraged me as a Welsh Conservative, and said 'I want to see you in the Assembly', because he wanted that open, inclusive, democratic institution where we had, yes, real scrutiny, accountability and proper, engaging cross-party politics, but he also wanted the people there who he felt could deliver that. I don't wish to sound immodest, I'm just flattered that he encouraged me at that point. And, of course, when I arrived, he was one of the very first people to come up and introduce me.

Now, some of the longer serving Members, perhaps including the current Llywydd, may recall that, in those days, there was a Tuesday night club in the tea room, as we still called it, which was a convivial gathering of cross-party politicians, some civil servants and journalists, usually quite a large number of us, and it was always pleasant; it was always friendly. The rule was: nothing ever the left that room. So, we could have open, honest conversations without the party politics, on any matter under the sun, whilst sampling a few glasses of wine together. And I sampled many glasses of wine with Dafydd and others, and we were a group of friends. We weren't always political allies, but we were a group of friends, and we built up a trust between ourselves.

I remember his enthusiasm, in those days, for this building, which was a hole in the ground, and him dragging me off one night, after a couple of those glasses of wine sampling, to see the model that was then sitting outside the old debating Chamber, and convincing me of its merits and why I should be supporting this building, at a time when our group here was—let's put it very politely—open-minded, and sometimes hostile to the cost that would be involved.

I remember the occasion, I think it was the 2007 opening, when my wife was singing in the tea room, and he wasn't impressed. He felt that this impinged upon the dignity of the institution, and made it clear to my wife that those were his feelings. He didn't know at that point that my wife is a terrier, who retaliated in kind, and they became good friends thereafter, with, I think, mutual respect built upon that initial encounter.

I remember the occasion, of course, when he won the best-dressed award, not just for the Senedd, but I think he was the best-dressed politician of the year, if I recall. I remember the occasion, which Members of that era might recall, and it's the only occasion I remember it happening, when Dafydd Elis-Thomas, in the old Chamber, as Presiding Officer, kicked us all out. Because in those days, before the no alcohol before 6.00 p.m. rule applied—I'm sorry, public, but that's what happened; in those days, alcohol was available before 6.00 p.m. for those who wished to have it—there was a reception at lunch time for the Campaign for Real Ale. Virtually every single Member, including every Member of the then Executive, before we called it 'the Government', attended that reception and, very politely, had at least one, if not more, free samples. When we arrived in the Chamber, it was boisterous. So boisterous that Dafydd felt proceedings had gone on long enough and asked us—in fact, told us, very firmly—to leave, and said he'd allow us back in half an hour if we behaved better, but if we didn't, proceedings would be ended for the day. So, we did as we were told and, thankfully, when we came back in, proceedings were allowed to continue.

And I conclude by referring—many years, of course, passed—as others have, to his period as Minister for Culture, Tourism and Sport, and how he quietly beavered away, and his love of that brief. A few weeks ago, I had a formal visit to Theatr Clwyd, to look at the refurbishment, but I remember going to Dafydd, privately, when they were seeking the funding they needed to make that happen. And, yes, other funding came in later, including some small funding from the UK Government, but if Dafydd hadn't taken that on board, that wonderful new refurbishment wouldn't be happening.

And I'll conclude with one of my fondest memories, when he was in that role, visiting Gwrych castle near Abergele with him, the castle that went on to international fame as the home of I'm Celebrity...Get Me Out of Here! He was more fascinated by the history of the building, the architecture of the building, than actually the real reason we were there, with Mark Baker the young man who'd led the recovery and rescue of that wonderful building. Nonetheless, we got there in the end, and he was supportive there also.

So, Dafydd, I'm sure, like many others have said, you will be greatly missed, but it was a privilege and a pleasure to know you. And again, like others, I send my thoughts to Mair and the family at this time of terrible loss.

There have been major figures in the Welsh political landscape over the past 50 years, but very few can claim to have transformed the landscape itself as much as Dafydd Elis-Thomas did. He certainly was someone who delighted in his own contradictions, as we have heard: the radical who delighted in tradition; the Welsh nationalist who comfortably conversed with the English royal family. But, despite those contradictions, there was consistency not in the method, but in the objective, the objective that was always the same, which was to build the Welsh political nation. Everything else was tactics. 

When one approach didn't work, he tried another. I heard the interviews over the weekend in which Dafydd, in true inhibitable style, emphatically denied he was ever a Marxist. I raised half an eyebrow myself, and probably so would Dafydd of an earlier vintage. But he certainly was a lifelong admirer of that great Sardinian Marxist, Antonio Gramsci, who, writing from a prison cell, urged progressives to be pessimists of the intellect, but optimists of the will. Dafydd embodied that credo; he had the intellectual pessimism to know that quick eutopias weren't always on the cards. Wales wasn't going to suddenly wake up transformed overnight. But he had the optimistic will to chip away, year after year, convinced that each small step, each little victory, each new ally, was part of a grander mosaic. His truly was a long march through the institutions, an embodiment of that idea that sometimes the most revolutionary act is to take your seat at the table, and ever so subtly change the conversation from within.

There was a Gwydion-like spirit to him, wasn't there, just like Wales itself, as Gwyn Alf Williams told us. He reinvented himself, not as a dilettante or an opportunist, but as a skilful strategist who was always reading the political facts on the ground to identify the best way forward for the project of nation building that was his guiding light. 

I once, as an eager young activist, described Dafydd Elis-Thomas as the pantomime dame of Welsh politics, because he changed his political clothes with every scene. Typical of Dafydd El and his mischievous wit, he said that he regarded that as a compliment, because the dame was the most creative figure in restoration theatre.

More than anyone else, perhaps, Dafydd El—and to those of us who knew and loved him, he will always be Dafydd El—expanded the political horizons of Wales's possibilities. And now, as we prepare to take down the walls behind us to expand our Senedd and our democracy once more, it's fitting that we recognise his fundamental role. He didn't just occupy the Chair in which you now sit, Llywydd, he created it, wielding his power with a craftsman's touch, understanding that changing the world often means working with the grain of institutions just enough to reshape them. Of this great Welsh man, we can certainly say he has left his mark on the Wales to come.

Our thanks to him are endless.

It's difficult to believe that Dafydd El is no longer with us to probe and provoke, to open our minds, and to make us think outside the box. His contribution was vast, and his influence on Welsh life so exceptionally important. Others this afternoon have listed his many achievements, but I will talk about his influence on me personally.

I well remember the first time I met this short, well-dressed man who spoke so eloquently. I was a first-year student at Aberystwyth University, and both of us were in a queue waiting to be signed in to a club in town, a club that was open in the afternoon when everywhere else was closed. That’s how it was in the 1970s. But, of course, the conversation soon turned to Welsh politics, and I was totally enchanted by his vision and his left-wing radicalism. He inspired me to expand my horizons—horizons that were rather narrow at the time, I have to confess. Others contributed to the process of developing in me a politics rooted in firm principles in favour of fairness and equality, but Dafydd El planted the seed.

Dafydd believed in pursuing every possible avenue in order to realise his dream of a free Wales. I can't say that I agreed with every one of those tactics, all of those avenues, but working together pragmatically with others to reach a desired goal is important, and Dafydd El showed all of us the way in that regard.

I’m thinking of Mair and the boys, his family and friends at this exceptionally sad time, but I know that Dafydd El will live forever in all of our hearts.

As chair of the Conservative group, I'd like to pay tribute to Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas, the first Presiding Officer of the National Assembly for Wales. Those who worked alongside Dafydd, either here or in Westminster, will have far greater memories of him than I do. However, the tributes to Dafydd have all followed a similar theme: a giant of Welsh politics, a character, and a friend to many. It's only on a few occasions since my election that I have met Dafydd, but I always saw his smile and that glint in his eyes as he asked questions of me. And, despite his different political views, I would like to think that Dafydd, as the first Presiding Officer of this place, the standing stone of our Senedd, was proud to see a young Welsh speaker from rural Wales having been elected to the place where he served his constituents and the whole of Wales with such passion and dignity. The Welsh Conservative group’s sympathies are with Mair, his family and friends at this sad time.

As a child, I remember Dafydd coming to our house, because my father worked for the party, and during the miners' strike in the 1980s, and some of the party's main campaigns in Carmarthenshire—Hywel Teifi’s campaign, Rhodri Glyn's campaign in the early 1990s, and so on—and hearing him speak was enough to excite any young boy like me, without a shadow of a doubt.

But, of course, as we've heard, it was as Presiding Officer of the Assembly and this Senedd that he will be mainly remembered. As somebody said over the weekend: the right man, in the right place, at the right time. And we heard earlier the First Minister saying that he was one to build bridges. Well, he was one to build alliances. It's a fact that he represented Dwyfor Meirionnydd, or Meirionnydd Nant Conwy as it was previously, for many decades, and he created those alliances of local residents on council estates supporting him, and those who had moved in from England, perhaps, were just as likely to have supported him too. And, of course, that ability to build alliances was so important to devolution.

Following the referendum victory by a hair’s breadth, it was Dafydd El who gave the people of Wales confidence in this new institution. And this building, of course, as we've heard, is testament to his determination to ensure that our national Parliament was given the rightful status that any national parliament should have.

But when I first came here in 2011, Dafydd had just stood down as Presiding Officer, of course, and was Chair of the Environment and Sustainability Committee, as it was in the fourth Assembly. Dafydd was an experienced chair, of course, but all nine of the other committee members were newly elected Members of the Assembly, as was, and of course he delighted, didn't he, in teaching us how to scrutinise Government and so on, and provided that word of advice that we've heard mentioned several times this afternoon. And we would often joke that the nine Members were like disciples learning at the feet of the Lord, and certainly we learned a great deal, because look at where they are now. At least one has gone on to become First Minister. At least three have been Government Ministers. Two of us are committee Chairs. One is Deputy Presiding Officer of this Senedd.

So, when we talk about Dafydd's legacy, of course we think about his constitutional influence. Of course we think about his influence on the national movement, and the bricks and mortar architecture of the building that we're standing in today. But let us remember too his influence on people and on individuals, and I'm very proud to count myself as one of those. So, rest in peace, Dafydd, and we send, of course, our love and condolences to Mair and the boys and the whole family. Thank you.

I first met Dafydd Elis-Thomas at the end of the 1990s, beginning of the 2000s, when he came to Llanfihangel Glyn Myfyr to celebrate the conversion of the closed primary school into a community centre for the whole area, and he was like the cat that had got the cream. He was so proud of being the Presiding Officer and his role in being there in celebrating this transformation into a youthful place where people learned how to use computers, which at that point were really a bit of a dark art.

So, I was just a bit-part; he took no notice of me. But he was very good at engaging with everybody and it was enthralling, really, to then meet him again when I joined the Senedd in 2011, by which time, of course, he had stood down as the Presiding Officer. But he was great at encouraging all of us, as some people like Llyr have already said. He'd always say to me on the stairs, 'Keep going; ask those questions.' And he was just a wonderful guy and as such a bon viveur. He was the ideal Minister for culture and the arts, because he was so good at working the room with all the people on the outside who were actually delivering culture and the arts and sport. So, he will be so missed, and he really was one of the founding fathers of our devolved Parliament, and there's nothing more that can be said other than to say that he was absolutely brilliant and we all miss him.

Thank you all for those wonderful and deserved words of tribute to Dafydd El. It isn't an easy task to encompass Dafydd's contribution and character in a single session of tribute or in just a few words. Perhaps the best summary description of him that I've heard belongs to his dear friend Laura McAllister: the political nonconformist. Dafydd succeeded in being slightly nonconformist even in some of the most conformist situations, and he found himself in many of those situations during his life.

And yes, Dafydd adapted some of his political tactics during his career, but in half a century of politics, in constantly changing circumstances, the ability to adapt is a sign of political strength, and Dafydd always was a touch ahead of the curve. But his values always remained consistent: eager to see Wales as a progressive, bold, bilingual, green and inclusive nation, and all of that in the European tradition.

It's hard to imagine Wales without Dafydd El. He has been ever-present in the political lives of the vast majority of us. But it is also difficult to imagine the corridors of the Senedd without Dafydd the person. Yes, there is a Chamber of politicians of all parties here saddened by Dafydd's loss, but that sadness is also to be felt today in the corridors, in the canteen, in the car park, by all of the staff who worked with Dafydd. Dafydd was so proud of the Senedd's staff. And in every sense of the word, therefore, Dafydd built the Senedd—the walls around us, the staff who support us, and the nation that the people of Wales elect us to represent and serve. From one Llywydd to another, therefore: thank you, Dafydd, for that foundation, that inspiration, for that hwyl, for that joy along the way.

And in conclusion, our thoughts turn to Mair, and to Rolant, Meilyr, Cai, and to the whole family, some of whom are joining us today. Thank you for sharing so much of Dafydd with us, and thank you, Mair, in particular, for working alongside Dafydd and travelling alongside Dafydd during a quarter of a century of parliamentary life.

And now, to paraphrase Dafydd, on to another exciting afternoon in our Senedd's life. [Laughter.] 

Questions to the First Minister, therefore. The first question is from Laura Anne Jones.

The Welsh Government takes road safety very seriously and uses evidence-based data-led studies to inform appropriate measures to improve safety on the strategic road network.

First Minister, for decades now, the Raglan bypass junctions have been near-death traps for residents in Monmouthshire, causing serious near-fatal accidents. Last week Raglan Community Council hosted a meeting with the Welsh Government about the recent safety service conducted by SWTRA on that stretch of road. It was good to hear that the 50 mph speed limit already in place is likely to be a more permanent solution—that is welcome—but it was hugely disappointing that even though the potential for fatal accidents was recognised by those at the meeting, according to the Welsh Government's criteria, these junctions just aren't unsafe enough for further solutions, and this is despite the danger of these junctions being recognised by the Welsh Government and SWTRA, who suggested either toucan crossings, roundabouts and traffic lights were needed.

First Minister, it's pure luck that there hasn't been a fatality to date. Can I take this opportunity to ask you and/or your Cabinet Secretary, Ken Skates, to visit this stretch of road of the A40 with me, us, to see the imminent danger these junctions pose, not only to residents, but to the schoolchildren regularly bussed across them? Can I please ask that this Government revisit their decision not to action one of those solutions that were presented by SWTRA? Yes, the cost of real solutions is high, but the cost of doing nothing is higher and will result in lives lost. Diolch.

Thanks very much, and I’m very pleased you’ve had feedback from the meeting that was held last week with Welsh Government officials and representatives from Monmouthshire County Council and Raglan Community Council and others. We’re very aware, of course, that there have been several accidents over time, but they’re not at a level at this point where they represent a collision cluster, and I’m sure you heard that in the meeting. Now, that’s not to say that things don’t need to be done, and I’m really pleased that we’ve seen that temporary speed limit from 70 mph being reduced to 50 mph, and that that now will be permanent and that they’ll also be consulting on a GoSafe safety camera partnership. So, clearly, we have to prioritise, and at this point, there are other priorities within the Welsh Government's ambit.

We are committed to improving support for eating disorders and have provided funding to support health boards to do this. As part of the strategic programme for mental health, work is also being undertaken to improve access to early intervention services for eating disorders.

Thank you for that response.

Sixty thousand people in Wales suffer from an eating disorder and according to the eating disorder charity Beat, intensive community and day treatment can provide patients with structured multidisciplinary support, including therapy, supervised meals, and family involvement while enabling them to stay home, which of course minimises the need to be admitted to hospital. 

National Institute for Health and Care Excellence and Scottish Intercollegiate Guidelines Network guidelines for eating disorders also recommend that most patients with eating disorders should be treated on an out-patient basis, and according to Beat's latest report, 'There's no place like home', these types of treatments can achieve equivalent outcomes to in-patient care. And I think in Wales intensive day and community treatment is patchy, so does the Welsh Government have any plans to make this type of treatment available in Wales more widely?

Thank you very much. We're very aware of Beat's report and its recommendations. Now, the clinical implementation network is tasked with developing an all-Wales model for the earliest intervention, and this is the key thing, I think, when it comes to people with eating disorders, and that's going to focus on emerging and early-stage illness, with the aim of preventing the need for in-patient care. So, you're quite right, we've got to try and avoid that if possible. What we know is that that model of care can reduce the need for in-patient care by up to 35 per cent with more people being cared for within the community. So, this is in keeping with the overall model that we have in Welsh Government, which is to shift resources back into the community and into the primary care space and to focus on prevention.

First Minister, as I'm sure you are well aware, those who are suffering with eating disorders can be extremely vulnerable and, often, they are a target for online content that can continue to worsen the situation. Whilst the internet can be a source of great help and support for those struggling, there are also many online platforms that can provide them with access to upsetting and graphic content that is pro eating disorder, pro suicide and pro self-harm. Content like this can be viewed on almost any online platform, including social media and video-sharing, and all can be shared further on online forums, message boards and groups that have been set up for people experiencing similar feelings. With this in mind, First Minister, what action is the Welsh Government taking to help schools, charities and organisations that work with vulnerable people to raise awareness of the harmful content that can be out there and how best to ignore and overcome it? Thank you.

Thanks very much. I just think it's heartbreaking, the trauma that many people go through with eating disorders, and it impacts people of all ages, but there is this particular group of young women, in particular, who seem to be affected more than others. Now, the NHS Wales Executive has appointed a dedicated lead on the issue of eating disorders across Wales, and they are in that space of prevention, but, as I say, we are actually funding also Beat, which is a really important charity that does really significant and good work with people. And on that online information issue and the difficulty of some of the images that you talked about—certainly, Beat, I'm sure, is the organisation that can help people to manage that kind of situation.

Questions now from the party leaders. Leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Darren Millar.

Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, last week we saw the conclusion of the trial relating to the school attack at Ysgol Dyffryn Aman in which a teenage schoolgirl stabbed two teachers and a fellow pupil. In January of this year alone, there were four school lockdowns due to threatening and disturbing behaviour in Wales and alleged attacks on teachers, along with the report of a knife being found in a pupil's bag in Bridgend. In June the NASUWT, the Teachers' Union, released a report that found that almost 10 per cent of teachers in Wales had experienced pupils bringing weapons into schools. Now, I'm sure that you'll agree with me, First Minister, that violence or abuse against teachers in schools is completely unacceptable. So, in light of this, what guidance is the Welsh Government providing to our schools regarding the safety of teachers, and what action, specifically, are you taking to deter young people from taking weapons such as knives into Welsh schools?

Thanks very much. It's good of him to join us this week.

Any form of violence or abuse against staff or pupils in our schools, I think, is completely unacceptable. Schools have got to be a place where children feel safe, and not just children, but also staff. We have a legal duty to provide a safe learning environment, so all schools have a requirement to have a behaviour policy that promotes good pupil behaviour, and already, schools in Wales are able to screen any pupil for a knife or other weapons. So, already, there are quite clear things that are possible in terms of school behaviours, but I'm very pleased to see that the education Secretary will be hosting a behaviour summit very shortly.

I'm very pleased to hear about the behaviour summit, but, clearly, the action that's currently being taken by the Welsh Government is insufficient, because the teachers' union published their Big Question Survey in December, and the results were, frankly, staggering. Teachers in Wales were asked about pupil behaviour problems that caused the most concern on a day-to-day basis, and almost one in four cited physical assaults, up from just 4.3 per cent in 2021. Alarmingly, almost 8 per cent of teachers responded to say that pupils bringing weapons into school was a day-to-day concern, and that response rate was 50 per cent higher than over the border in England. Yet, in spite of these challenges, rather than toughening up guidance to support our teachers in Welsh schools, your Government has been watering that guidance down by changing the reporting requirements on weapons and exclusion. As highlighted by the National Association of Schoolmasters Union of Women Teachers, the possession of a weapon was a reportable reason for exclusion in the 2019 guidance issued to schools, but this was changed in April of 2024 so that carrying a weapon no longer applies as a reportable reason for exclusion. Can you tell us, First Minister, why on earth was that guidance changed, and do you agree with me that taking a weapon into school should always be reported to the local authority and result in an exclusion?

Thanks very much. As I say, the exclusion guidance makes clear that the use or threat of using offensive weapons can be grounds for exclusion. And on the data side of things, there is, obviously, a discussion going on at the moment between the education Secretary and the unions—that will be this behaviour summit meeting that will thrash out this in more detail. But the suggestion is that they’ll be changing it back to what was done before. 

Well, I'm pleased to hear that you're going to change it back, but it still begs the question of why it was changed in the first place. We don’t want a situation where it may result in an exclusion, taking a weapon into school; it ought to result in an exclusion from school. It’s no wonder that discipline in our schools is, frankly, falling apart here in Wales. And it’s your failure as a Government to get to grips with this issue that’s causing the rise in violence and abuse of teachers in our schools, and is leading now to, unfortunately, a teacher recruitment and retention crisis. The latest data reported and published by the Education Workforce Council shows that, over the past decade, the number of teachers registered with the General Teaching Council for Wales has fallen by 20 per cent—over 7,500 teachers have come off that list. And in the last reported year—2023—we saw the biggest exodus from the teaching profession in over a decade, and you and I both know, First Minister, that we’re not training enough new secondary school teachers to fill that void. So, under Labour’s stewardship here in Wales, school violence and lockdowns are up, educational performance is down, and teachers are leaving the profession at an alarming rate. So, when will you acknowledge these problems, accept your responsibility and deliver the education system that our children and our teachers deserve?

Well, thanks very much. I’m just going to repeat again that, already, our guidance makes clear that carrying a knife can lead to exclusion, and that the data aspect is separate, but that is being moved back.

Now, you well know that the issue of teacher recruitment is not something unique to Wales; it is something that is happening globally. That’s not to say that we’re not actually putting huge efforts into encouraging people to take up what is a very valuable profession.

I think it’s probably also worth saying that we’ve asked Estyn to undertake a thematic review of behaviour in secondary schools, and we’re expecting that to be published ahead of the summer.

The leader of Plaid Cymru, Rhun ap Iorwerth. 

Diolch, Llywydd. Management of the Crown Estate was devolved to Scotland in 2017. Their latest annual report shows that the Scottish Crown Estate generated £103 million for the Scottish public purse. But whilst the Crown Estate is announcing record net profits, Wales is still missing out on millions because it’s not devolved here. Of course, we want to be able to maximise the potential of our natural resources, create jobs and help to tackle the cost-of-living crisis and so on. That means devolving it. It’s something the Welsh Government has backed. It’s something that’s important to the Welsh Government. Last week, though, Labour MPs at Westminster had an opportunity to back a Plaid Cymru amendment to transfer the management of the Crown Estate assets in Wales to the Welsh Government. Was the First Minister as frustrated as I was that Labour MPs blocked it?

Well, let me just make it clear that our position in Government remains that the Crown Estate should be devolved, and we will continue to make that case to the UK Government. We welcome the UK Government’s commitment to a Welsh commissioner, but that is certainly something I see as just a first step.

Okay, some welcome words there. As I said, devolving the Crown Estate is about ensuring that profits generated from our land and seabed benefit Wales directly, and, in the past, the First Minister has agreed with me on the need to devolve it, and I’m pleased to hear the principle being reiterated again. But nine Labour MPs wanted to silence Wales's voice in that vote, blocking the amendment, denying us the powers that Scotland already have. Again, we're returning to how much influence the First Minister has on her party colleagues in Westminster and on Keir Starmer; I think we all know where the power lies in that partnership. But we really need her to be able to use her influence over Labour MPs from Wales at the very least; she is the leader of Labour in Wales. Would she agree that the support of Labour Members from Wales at Westminster is necessary if we're to succeed in building cross-party consensus on this issue—not to talk about it, but to get it done?

Thanks very much. Listen, there's a lot that we agree on, and there are things that we disagree on. This is one of the areas where we disagree. I will continue to make the case. I was very pleased to see that Lord Murphy was somebody who helped us to make the case in the House of Lords on the Welsh Government's side of the argument. But I'm not giving up on this cause. It's an important cause for our nation. I just want to make it absolutely clear that it's nation before party.

They are warm words. They are very, very warm words, and I appreciate it, and I hope they get warmer again next week, but nothing is being done. And not only is nothing being done, but blocks are being put in place by Labour MPs, including Labour MPs from Wales. The First Minister is leader of Labour in Wales. We're told time and again that devolving the Crown Estate is the policy of the Labour Party in Wales, but we need to get it done. The Under-Secretary of State for Wales, the MP for Llanelli, Nia Griffith, thinks devolving the Crown Estate is a waste of time—that's what she said only last week. Who speaks for Labour in Wales is a question we find ourselves asking increasingly. So, when the First Minister tells us, as she does again today, that she is fighting on the Crown Estate front, it sounds great, it is what we need, but she's not even winning the battle among her own elected members in Wales, let alone the wider party.

Again, in trying to build consensus on this, last week, I wrote to the First Minister, pressing the case that the Welsh Government should submit written evidence to the Westminster committee discussing the Crown Estate Bill, making the case, taking practical steps. Can she confirm whether or not the Government has done so, and if it hasn't, or indeed doesn't plan to, wouldn't that raise further questions about how serious the Welsh Government actually is about getting this done?

Thanks very much. Let me make it clear that there have been discussions and that the Chief Secretary to the Treasury has issued a further response to Plaid Cymru, putting on record that there have been discussions with the Welsh Government at official and ministerial level. So, we have made very clear our position on this issue. But what I will say is that the whole point of this is to make sure that we get our fair dues in Wales. What we're looking for is an uplift that will help us to contribute to improve the lives of the people in this nation. We have an opportunity to do that. We have the biggest budget increase that we've seen in the history of devolution—£1.4 billion—and we are going to be voting on that on 4 March. There is an opportunity for you to support the people of Wales on 4 March. You pride yourself—. You call yourself the Party of Wales; you are not the Party of Wales if you do not help to deliver that £600 million extra for the health service that they are looking for us to do.

Trade unions are essential to workplaces in Wales. They support better working conditions, protect workers' rights and promote workplace learning and development. This week is HeartUnions Week, and we are proud to join trade unions in celebrating the vital role that they play in making work better, safer and fairer.

Thank you for that response, First Minister.

I'll start by declaring an interest as a proud and often loud trade union member. I'm clear that I was made in the trade union movement. As you said, this week is TUC HeartUnions Week, a chance to champion trade unions in our workplaces, in our communities and in our country. This Welsh Labour Government has led in legislating on social partnership, while the UK Labour Government is set to empower workers with the Employment Rights Bill, underpinning that Welsh way of working. However, there is still work to be done and challenges to overcome, whether that's what's happening in the private sector to workers at Oscar Mayer in Wrexham or at major institutions like Cardiff University. First Minister, do you agree that trade unions are a progressive force for good not just in the workplace, but for Wales too? And, this HeartUnions Week, and every week, will you join with me in sending a message of solidarity and an ongoing commitment to action for workers facing unfair working practices, bad bosses and discrimination across the country? Diolch.

Thanks very much. I know that Jack Sargeant, as Minister with portfolio responsibility for social partnership, will be issuing a written statement on the Welsh Government's support for HeartUnions Week. Now, during HeartUnions Week and during the rest of the year, we stand with workers and trade unions against exploitative practices and for fair work. And thanks for drawing attention to the UK Government’s Employment Rights Bill. This will deliver the biggest upgrade to workers’ rights for a generation and we will be proud to support that. It's a Labour Bill enhancing workers’ rights that’s going through the UK Parliament at the moment, a Bill that says it wants to stop employers from being able to sack you unless you agree to work for less pay and worse conditions—fire and re-hire, that’s what we’re seeing in Oscar Mayer. Who voted against the introduction of this Bill? Nigel Farage. It's a Labour Bill that says that if you’ve worked for a company for less than two years, employers should not have the right to dismiss you without good reason. Who voted against this? Nigel Farage. It's a Bill that says that your boss should not be able to determine what hours you work without your consent. Who voted against this? Nigel Farage. It's a Bill that says it will stop employers from refusing to pay you for three days if you’re sick. Who voted against this Bill? We can all join in: Nigel Farage. 

No, no, no. We’re not doing chants. We’re not doing chants. I’m channelling my Dafydd Elis-Thomas here. This Chamber is not for chanting. Sam Rowlands.

Thank you, Llywydd. And, Llywydd, you'll be aware the record shows my role as a school governor. And in relation to schools, First Minister, the NAHT, the trade union representing school leaders, has criticised the Welsh Government for a lack of clarity regarding possible additional funding for schools arising from Barnett consequentials. Indeed, the NAHT say that you have, and I’ll quote,

'failed to answer basic questions'

about this additional funding arising from Barnett consequentials. So, given the importance that you place on trade unions, First Minister, will you provide and answer to that criticism and give this trade union, educators and parents certainty over that specific additional funding?

Thanks very much. Well, I find that absolutely shocking really, because we’ve put £200 million extra into schools over the past two years on top of the revenue support grant. So, if you’re so concerned about this, go back to the union and tell them that you’re going to vote for the budget, because, if it doesn’t get through, they won’t be getting any of that additional money. So, you go back to them, look them in the eye and say, 'Thanks very much for that proposal; I won’t be supporting you on that'. Don’t come in here and ask for more money if we’re putting it on the table and you’re not voting for it. People need to understand what is going on in this place.

Of course, Plaid Cymru re-emphasises its support for the trade union movement and the role that trade unions play in protecting workers from the worst excesses of profit-driven companies. However, whilst I’ve heard a number of positive statements come from the Labour benches, one thing that we could really do to show our support for trade unions is support the campaign run by the Fire Brigades Union on DECON. Now, firefighters are 365 per cent more likely to get cancer as a result of their job. We have called for preventative health monitoring for firefighters, yet the Government has been reluctant to move forward on that. The longer we wait, the more firefighters die; the longer we wait, the more the Government has a responsibility and negligence towards our firefighters. So, in this HeartsUnions Week, will the Government now support the campaign from the Fire Brigades Union and put in place that preventative health monitoring?

Well, thanks very much, and thanks for your continued pursuit of this important issue. What I do know is that people are looking at this very seriously and that the health Secretary has asked the chief medical officer to look into this as a matter of urgency.

First Minister, as you know, I am a very proud trade unionist. I represented my fellow workers as a GMB shop steward and I acted for, literally, thousands of trade union members across the movement as an employment lawyer. I still remember meeting someone who was a regional manager, who ended up being Dawn Bowden in this Chamber, as a young lawyer. I’ve worked constructively and honestly with trade union partners since getting elected to this place, but, during my time in representing trade union members in the workplace, I’ve seen for myself the devastating impact of bullying at work and the impact that has not just in the workplace but on someone’s whole life. Trade union membership has helped some people to move forward, but the damage is real, whether the employer is large or small.

We regularly call out bad bosses and bullying behaviour at work in this Chamber, but do you agree with me, First Minister, that all of us in this Chamber have a responsibility not just to talk the talk in the Chamber, but to walk the walk in how we conduct ourselves with staff in this building, and especially as employers? I hope that’s a message that other party leaders would agree with when it comes to deciding who can return to this place as a candidate or Member in the future.

Thanks very much. There’s nothing worse than having that dread of walking into work knowing that your day is going to be dominated by a bully. I just imagine what it’s like for people across this nation, and there are people who are living with that. We’ve got to make sure that there are support systems in place to deal with that, and I’m sure the Llywydd is very aware of the necessity of putting those support systems in place in the Senedd as well.

Donations to registered political parties are regulated by Part 4 of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000. The subject matter of that Part is reserved to Westminster.

Thank you very much, First Minister. I'm sure that all of us would agree here today that only those eligible to vote in UK elections should provide significant sums of funds in donations to political parties and candidates. But there's a huge loophole at the moment: people can contribute significant sums through businesses. We can learn a lot from our neighbours. In France, there is no right for corporations to contribute at all, and only a maximum of €7,500 can be donated by individuals every year. Now, by the time of the next Senedd election, because of UK developments and international developments, there will be greater interest in the Welsh Senedd elections than ever before. It’s possible that individuals who have far greater wealth than the budget of the Welsh Government will see our elections as a dress rehearsal before the next Westminster elections. Now, it was in Labour's Westminster manifesto to safeguard democracy by strengthening rules on political donations. Today, as we remember one of the architects of democracy in Wales, what steps is the Welsh Government going to take to safeguard democracy in Wales and to ensure that our elections can’t become a political game for billionaires? Thank you.

Thank you very much. The UK Labour manifesto, as you said, for the election did include a commitment to safeguard democracy by tightening the rules around donations to political parties. The Electoral Commission has also made recommendations to strengthen regulation in this area. As you are aware, this is a reserved issue, so it's important that that happens at a matter of urgency. Because, as you say, we will go first, and I do hope that there's a possibility that we'll see a tightening of the rules before our election.

Good afternoon, First Minister. 

Thank you also to Rhys for raising this important issue,

because this issue strikes at the heart of one of the biggest issues facing politicians and politics: a lack of trust and transparency. The influence of big billionaires and companies won’t just come through money but will come through media manipulation and political advertising. According to the Electoral Commission, in 2011, spending by political campaigners on digital advertising was a mere 0.3 per cent, but in 2017 it went up to 42.8 per cent. This number will only get bigger and bigger into the future. The lack of rules really lowers the tone of political discourse here across the UK. Last week, we saw the Guardian feature the launch of the Labour Party’s use of Reform-style branding to boast about deportations. This really was a new low in our politics. So, I’d like to ask the First Minister: would you agree with me that this was unacceptable and that we don't want to see that happening here in our Senedd elections? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Well, thanks very much. I think it’s important for us to recognise that there has been a shift in the way that political parties spend their money during elections. Attack ads are a matter of political judgment, and I think we’d all draw our lines in very different places. But I do think that there should be a level beyond which no political party should sink.

We’ve seen how dark money from overseas has been able to corrupt our politics over many years. We saw the influence of dark money on the Brexit referendum, for example, and we’ve also seen how overseas players are able to dominate our politics and to set agendas with no responsibility and no ability for us as lawmakers and citizens to exercise any level of control. It appears to me that there needs to be a new cross-party consensus to ensure that our politics remains free of the influence of billionaires and also remains free for individuals across Wales to ensure that everybody has a stake in our politics.

First Minister, will you lead a cross-party consensus to ensure that the next Senedd election is not corrupted by whether it be foreign billionaires or dark money, and not corrupted by those people who use social media in order to drive fear, to drive people, sometimes, in hatred, and also to ensure that the people of Wales are able to make a fair and free choice when it comes to electing a new Welsh Government next year?

Well, thanks very much. There will be an effort to update the regulation of the spending of political parties at the Senedd elections to reflect the broader changes to our electoral system. That will take place from 2026. Now, there are already controls in respect of donations, and already strong regulation can be incurred by political parties at Senedd elections, but that’s mostly during the election time itself. So, I think that there’s probably a broader discussion that needs to be had. There has been a consultation on a range of models for a system of campaign expenditure that will work with the new electoral system. The Welsh Government’s views on the responses are planned for publication this Friday, 14 February.

Building a stronger, greener economy as we make maximum progress towards decarbonisation is a key programme for government commitment that will help us tackle the climate crisis and restore nature. The Welsh Government has regular discussions with the leisure sector on their role in delivering this commitment.

That’s excellent news, First Minister. I’m very pleased that the new 25m pool at Pentwyn Leisure Centre in my constituency, commissioned by Cardiff Council, has sustainability built into the development, with solar panels and an air source heat pump, as well as a rising and falling floor on part of the pool to conserve energy and neutralise the cost of heating the water. It seems to me that, whether it’s run by the local authority or outsourced to another company, surely all leisure operators need to be aware of the requirement to decarbonise all public buildings by 2030. So, how is Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru prioritising getting high-energy users, like leisure centres, particularly those with swimming pools, to switch to renewable energy? Even such low-tech additions as a pool cover could make a massive difference.

Well, thanks very much, Jenny. Now, I don’t know if you’re aware of this, Jenny, but I used to be a lifeguard, so I’ve spent a lot of time in leisure centres, and what I do know is that they were always quite hot. So, I always used to imagine what the costs were of heating those buildings, and I was very pleased to see that Cardiff Council were successful in their application to Ynni Cymru, which is the £10 million grant scheme for smart local energy systems across Wales. So, that’s really good news. Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru is a renewable energy developer, but it’s focused really on wind projects. So, that’s a different pot of money and a different source. So, if they wanted support, the route to go down is the Ynni Cymru route, rather than Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru.

In an ideal Wales, we would have we would have all our public buildings decarbonised by 2030, but we have to face reality here. I'm seeing too many leisure centres facing closure due to chronic underfunding. The 2023 Local Government and Housing Committee warned that urgent long-term funding is needed, yet local authorities and indeed Ministers here, fail to appreciate their vital role in health and well-being. In my own local authority, gym fees and leisure centre fees have doubled, pricing many out, including those on GP referral schemes, essential for older people's fitness. Meanwhile, the UK Conservative Government very recently provided a £63 million boost for England, doubling the funding per centre compared to Wales—

[Inaudible.]—local authority money for 14 years.

With Swim Wales warning that 30 per cent of pools are on the brink, soon there will be no leisure centres left even to decarbonise. The Welsh Government must stop pushing unfunded expectations onto the local authorities, and you need to take some responsibility if you intend to decarbonise. We need to address the chronic underfunding in our leisure centres and also ensure—. I mean, £1.8 million is all that you've allocated for this agenda, anyway—

I'm—

—why don't you look first to providing the leisure centres with what they need to keep going, so that my constituents can access a place in a leisure centre? Diolch.

Look, if you don't vote for the budget, if we don't get our budget through, the increase in funding to local authorities that we're proposing won't come. It's not that they won't get more money; they won't be getting the money that they've got now. So, it’s on your watch; you go and speak to your local authority and you go and tell them that you're going to be voting against the budget where they could be getting more money. Go and tell your constituents—go and tell your constituents what you're going to do. There is money on the table for us to go and pick up and you're not going to go and pick it up. People are watching.

When major long-term road repairs start on the trunk road, support for the local community for issues connected to the works is, in the first instance, provided by the site manager. There are also frequently asked questions available about the scheme, along with contact numbers, on the Traffic Wales website.

Thank you, First Minister, for your answer. I know that you will be aware of the current road closure on the A470, Talerddig, for road repairs. There's currently a 70-mile diversion in place, causing significant disruption, and disruption also on smaller roads as well. Now, I proposed, and others did as well, 24/7 working to complete quicker, overnight working only, and also a diversion to take place along the side of the trunk road network—all of which were rejected. The eleventh of April is currently the date for one-way traffic to be back in operation again, but I wonder if you could update us on any work being completed quicker than that, because that would be greatly appreciated.

Also, I should add that the Traffic Wales website that you referred to points out that there will be no direct bus services between Machynlleth and Newtown, and it encourages people to use the Transport for Wales service. However, last week, Network Rail announced that the Aberystwyth to Shrewsbury line will be closed for 16 days in March into April, saying that they encourage people to use the bus service. So, clearly, there is a difficulty here and it looks quite clear to me that there was little co-ordination that went on between the Welsh Government, Transport for Wales and Network Rail as well. Further to that, due to the road closure, students are encouraged to use the rail service to get from Talerddig and Carno to school in Machynlleth; clearly, that won't be possible during the 16-day period, and currently there is no plan in place to get those children to school. I wonder, First Minister, whether you'd be prepared to intervene in this situation.

Thanks very much. The full closure of the A470 at Talerddig started on 20 January, as you suggested; we're hoping for that to be completed on 11 April. But we are working very closely with our supply chain to reduce this duration as far as possible. You suggested that there was a contradiction between the issue on the road and the rail; I'll ask the Cabinet Secretary just to take a look at the website and make sure that there is consistency in that.

We are committed to working with our trade union partners, by embedding social partnership in legislation and including union representatives on the social partnership council. And in this way, we ensure that their voices are heard. Together, we are driving forward a joint commitment to working in social partnership. This is the Welsh way.

Diolch. I would also like to declare that I am a proud trade union member, of Unite. The UK Government's Employment Rights Bill can't come soon enough. The Tories tried to stop it. Nigel Farage voted against it. But we really need that in place now for fair work. Five hundred and fifty workers at Oscar Mayer are facing cuts in their wages. On the website, the employer says that it's just a £20-a-week cut, but when you are on really low pay and you have got inflationary prices and increasing electricity bills, £20 is a lot of money. Discussions are not going forward. On the website, the employer says that it is open to dialogue in a constructive way to resolve the dispute. So, First Minister, could you tell me how successful the Welsh Government has been in meeting with the employer, because I believe that the employer cancelled another meeting last minute, and what will you do about it? 

Thanks very much. I want to pay tribute to the people who are fighting for their rights in Oscar Mayer. I and the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning, and the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales, wrote to Oscar Mayer to express our concerns, and we invited them to discuss their workforce proposals with us in October 2024. It's now been agreed that the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales will be meeting the chief executive officer on 21 February. I just want to make it clear that a fire-and-rehire practice has no place in a modern, civilised labour market and is very much against the values of fair work and social partnership. 

And finally, question 8, Altaf Hussain.

In this financial year alone, the Welsh Government is investing over £100 million in research and innovation taking place at Welsh universities, with a focus on research that is most impactful for our economy and our people. Funding is distributed via Medr, the new Commission for Tertiary Education and Research.

Thank you, First Minister. Sadly, our record in capitalising on the innovation coming out of our universities is appalling, when compared to our international competitors. US institutions file hundreds of patent applications each year, whereas our universities barely register any. In fact, searching for information on patents on the Commission for Tertiary Education and Research website returns zero results, so they don't even monitor the activities.

First Minister, if we are to compete on the global stage, we need to not only think big, but act big. Far too many ideas coming out of our universities are capitalised upon by overseas companies. What steps will your Government take to ensure that our institutions are building products based upon the research that they undertake?

Thanks very much. You are quite right: I think that we have got to, always, make more effort when it comes to going from research to innovation to commercialisation. We are quite good—not just in Wales, but across the UK—in terms of the research; we're not so great, compared to other countries, in the space of innovation.

That's why we now have the innovation strategy, and the Welsh Government is working with Medr, the Wales Innovation Network universities and the wider tertiary education sector to support a more collaborative approach, so that we optimise the value of that research and we make sure that we have got our priorities right. So, we want to strengthen collaborative research and innovation in higher education. So, I'm hoping that that new innovation strategy will help to drive the kinds of things that you are looking for. 

I thank the First Minister.

The next item, therefore, will be the business statement and announcement, and the Trefnydd will be making that statement. Jane Hutt.

Thank you very much, Llywydd. There is one change to this week's business. The oral statement on the Welsh Rugby Union's review into the senior women's team contract negotiations has been withdrawn, and will now be issued as a written statement. Draft business for the next three weeks is set out in the business statement and announcement, which are available to Members electronically.

Trefnydd, I'd be grateful if we could have a statement from the Welsh Government regarding family support services in Wales. A family in my constituency is having to travel to Swansea for family contact appointments, which I'm sure you'll agree is not acceptable and puts more pressure on families at what is already a very stressful time for them. I've also been informed that the Children and Family Court Advisory and Support Service is facing cuts, and that will, of course, have a huge impact on children who are going through this process. Therefore, I'd be grateful if we could have a statement from the Welsh Government about the steps being taken to ensure family contact appointments are as accessible and close to home as possible, as well as more information from the Welsh Government about its support for services to safeguard children through the family court process here in Wales.

Diolch yn fawr, Paul Davies. That's a very important question in terms of enabling those all-important family support services to be accessible, as you say, to those families. This is one of those areas that is partly devolved in terms of the court service, and with CAFCASS, we have a role and responsibilities. Certainly, this is something I know that the Minister for Children and Social Care will be very aware of, so we'll look to update on this issue in terms of access to family support. And those contact centres are very important. I've certainly visited many over the years in different roles and responsibilities, and we just need to have an update on how they are enabling and, in terms of responsibilities, how those services are being accessed.

I'd welcome a debate, please, in Government time about the future of GP services. I am worried about the future of some GP practices. Over the past few months, I have been raising concerns in the Senedd about a number of Valleys GP services, practices whose contracts were held by a private company, eHarley Street. Doctors weren't being paid; patients were finding it almost impossible to get appointments. I've raised concerns about clinical governance and, last week, I told the First Minister that one doctor, who'd worked in one of these practices, told me they didn't feel safe because of all the pressure that they were under.

Over the past few weeks, we've received news that a number of these practices have had their contracts handed back to the health board, but we still don't know what this means for the remaining practices, like Gelligaer, and we also don't have clarity about whether doctors will be paid the money they're owed, or how the health board will win back their trust, or, indeed, the trust of patients. I'd like a debate to consider what led to this crisis, what will happen to the remaining practices, what lessons can be learnt and how the faith of patients and staff can be restored in the wake of what they've all gone through.

Thank you very much, Delyth Jewell, for raising this really important issue, which affects your constituents, and, indeed, it has been raised by many Members across this Chamber in terms of their constituencies and regions. It is, as you know, a fact that the health board's taken on management of practices from eHarley Street, and also taken an active interest in handover dates to ensure that the needs of patients are met. Partners have agreed to provide the health board with detailed plans about the contracts. I'm particularly aware that this does cross a number of areas, including the area and the practice that you raised today. But, indeed, it's now back on the record today, and the concerns, as you say, about the workforce, the payment and the staff and conditions, and, as importantly, of course, access for patients to a service. Of course, our GP service and primary care are absolutely at the forefront of delivering a health service. It is very good that we have now got this new general medical services contract, with the investment of £52.1 million into general practice this year, and of course we must make sure that all citizens of Wales are going to benefit from that.

I had a meeting with the South Wales Police commissioner last week, and in discussion on the proposed 7.32 per cent rise in the police precept, I was at least reassured to hear that a scrutiny panel made up of representatives of each of the local authorities in south Wales had actually gone into the request for this quite considerable rise line by line, and had concluded that this was fair. But one of the things that came up was that Cardiff has no additional budget for being the capital city of Wales, which obviously comes with a lot of additional policing around the at least weekly demonstrations that occur in Cardiff, as well as the very large numbers of large events that occur in the entertainment industry particularly, both in sport and music, and those obviously incur different costs from another place. Now, I'm absolutely certain that London gets a very large additional pot of money for this function, and I wondered if you have had any conversations with Shabana Mahmood about whether or not Cardiff is being short-changed in its role as a capital city.

Thank you very much, Jenny Rathbone, and of course police funding, as you've acknowledged in that final question, is not wholly devolved. The overall spending plans for the police in England and Wales are determined and driven by the Home Office, but indeed it’s really good to hear from your meeting with PCC Emma Wools, Police and Crime Commissioner for South Wales, about the ways in which she engages with the scrutiny of the decisions that are made about the precept that has been raised for South Wales Police, and that consultation of course is really important.

Yes, this is something that has been raised. I chair the policing partnership board, and those issues are brought to our attention, particularly in terms of the pressures on the capital city of Wales and all the events that come, which are so important to us in Wales and to the city. This is something where I hope I would be able to—. And I'm sure the police and crime commissioner herself, and indeed the chief constables, meet regularly with UK Government colleagues and with the policing Minister, Diana Johnson, who I'm due to meet very shortly, and I'm sure that this will be on the agenda.

Trefnydd, as you may be aware, patients within my region—and I expect it's the same everywhere else—are finding it increasingly difficult to find car parking spaces at our hospitals, adding to the stress that many are under whilst visiting. You may have seen the recent coverage regarding the Royal Glamorgan Hospital in Llantrisant, where the hospital has recently removed many disabled spaces to install temporary medical units, and I can vouch that parking is just as bad at Prince Charles in Merthyr Tydfil and the Heath in Cardiff. We can all see that hospital space is at a premium, and no doubt many hospitals feel that they need greater capacity. However, it must be noted that sufficient parking, with extra space for disabled bays, is also desperately needed. With this in mind, can I please ask for a statement from the Welsh Government concerning the ongoing car parking issues at our hospitals, and what steps are being taken to improve the situation? Thank you. 

Thank you very much, Joel James. Of course, parking arrangements are the responsibility of the health boards, and it varies very much across Wales in terms of capacity for parking, and of course access to public transport is also key, and park-and-ride arrangements as well. It is really very important that we have arrangements so that you can park for free, and we have accessible and disabled spaces, obviously up to a point of hours when then you have to make payments. But this is an issue for health boards and I would advise you to raise that with your health board in terms of the specific examples that you've given.

Trefnydd, I would like to request a statement from the health Secretary, please, on the impact of the closure of Cardiff University's nursing school on health boards across Wales but in particular the Aneurin Bevan University Health Board. Health boards across Wales are already struggling with a retention and recruitment crisis of nurses, and the closure of Cardiff University's nursing course will have a significant negative impact on hospitals, like the Grange in Cwmbran, and healthcare across my region. The Aneurin Bevan director of nursing has described the move as a real blow, and the workforce director has said, 'It will have a significant impact on my health board area'. I'm sure you'll agree that it's important that we have a statement on what actions the Welsh Government is taking to minimise the impact on health services in my region, and also, more broadly, what impact the closure of the top-ranked nursing school in Wales and the fifth in the UK will have on keeping nurses we trained in Wales working in Wales, and the workforce numbers? Diolch.

Thank you very much for this question. We're absolutely committed to supporting a sustainable higher education sector, strong institutions able to deliver our ambitions for education, research and public services, and that links clearly to your question about nursing. We are very disappointed that nursing courses form part of Cardiff University's proposals, and we're working urgently with Health Education and Improvement Wales to ensure we train the same number of nurses in Wales. But clearly, we are at a point of consultation and this is a matter for both the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care and the Minister for Further and Higher Education, who are engaging with these issues in terms of impact.

Can I please call for a statement from the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership on the support available to grass-roots cricket clubs in Wales, because one example in my constituency, Pembroke Dock Cricket Club, is currently fundraising towards new changing rooms for men, women and juniors at their ground at Imble Lane to ensure the continuity of the club and the growth of the sport in Pembroke Dock? And I've enjoyed many a tough game against the dock who've done amazing charity work over the years, raising some £45,000 for local charities, but now it's time that the support is given to them so that they can continue to grow. They are working with the local authority and the Enhancing Pembrokeshire grant but further support is needed.

And neighbouring Pembroke Cricket Club have also worked tirelessly since the pandemic, improving their facilities at Treleet, including new nets, covers for the wicket and refreshing the pavilion. They've even been able to introduce a thirds senior side into the Pembrokeshire league, which just goes to show the growth of the game in the county of Pembrokeshire. 

So, a statement, please, from the Minister of how he is working with the Sport Wales, the England and Wales Cricket Board and Glamorgan Cricket to offer that support for grass-roots cricket clubs, so that one of the world's leading sports can continue to grow across our country. Diolch, Llywydd. 

Can I thank you very much for that question, Samuel Kurtz? Of course, you've actually taken the opportunity to highlight the vibrancy, I believe, of grass-roots cricket in Wales, which in all our regions and constituencies we know of those grass roots. Of course, much of that is not only the skills of all those who train, support and play, but the volunteers and the provision of pavilions, clubs as well, changing rooms et cetera. Now, this is something where Sport Wales is very engaged on with the grant funding scheme, and also, I have to say, I've been able to fund through the community facilities programme some of the improvements that are needed and refurbishments that are often needed in these often voluntary-owned community clubs. So, I hope also that you would look to the Pembrokeshire Association of Voluntary Services, who have a funding portal, because there are many trusts and sources of community funding. But certainly, it's important that you've brought this to the attention of the Chamber, and we can celebrate that vibrancy of cricket and enjoy the season as it starts, especially Glamorgan I'd say—that's a bit biased.

Trefnydd, could I request a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs on the recent all-Wales avian influenza prevention zone declaration? We all know the threat that avian flu has to not only our livestock but also to humans, and it's very concerning when we heard only yesterday, I think, that there was another outbreak in Liverpool. We know that millions of birds were slaughtered not long ago in Shropshire, hence the zone being put in place. However, I've been contacted by other constituents who are concerned about the expectation that they have to fill in certain forms, as part of the zone, and they're struggling to get access to those forms and, indeed, filling them in, and I just wondered if a statement could come from the Cabinet Secretary, outlining what support there will be in place, to ensure people can fill in the necessary forms and access them. And also I'd like to know what support and plans are in place to reassure the many poultry farmers and other bird keepers across Wales who are getting extremely anxious at this time.

Peter Fox, thank you for raising this, and, of course, we're aware and know that the need for an avian influenza prevention zone is kept under regular review, as part of the Government's work to monitor and manage the risks of avian flu. You will be very aware that all keepers of poultry and other captive birds will need to comply with the requirements of the avian influenza prevention zone. Keepers must also remain vigilant for signs of disease. It is a notifiable disease, and any suspicion should be reported immediately to the Animal and Plant Health Agency—APHA. We are working with other administrations, and APHA, on these cases, and are keeping a close watch on the avian influenza situation, both in Great Britain and at an international level.

Leader of the house, is it possible to have a statement from the Government in relation to the judgment last week, or the lack of contestation, by the Cardiff city region in relation to the contract that was awarded to demolish Aberthaw power station? In the note to the barristers' chambers that were acting for the company that brought the case, they believe that their claim was worth in excess of £10 million. I would've thought that £10 million warranted a statement from the Welsh Government, given that it is now an uncontested claim, and the taxpayer will in some form be on the hook for this money. So, could I implore the Government, as they have skin in the game here, to make the statement available to Members, so that we can see exactly what's gone on here and that when the Aberthaw development progresses, private developers will have the confidence that if they enter a bidding process, they will be entering it on fair terms and will have a reasonable expectation for those bids to be considered, and considered on economic merit and no other factor at all coming into play?

Well, thank you very much, Andrew R.T. Davies, for raising that issue. It is for the Cardiff capital region, and, of course, that is a collaboration of the authorities in the region to account for the situation. I will certainly make sure that I share the updated information that I've requested with Members in terms of the situation.

And finally, Gareth Davies.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'd like to raise a statement, please, from the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales on the Welsh Government road safety capital and revenue grant, and the allocation of this fund to Denbighshire County Council. There is a dangerous and accident-prone stretch of rural road in my constituency, known as the 'dizzy bends', between Rhyl and Dyserth, which leads to frequent near-miss traffic incidents. There is currently a written-off vehicle, a Citroen Xsara Picasso, which has been left abandoned in a neighbouring field for well over a year, following a crash, with some residents telling me they are thankful for the eyesore, as it's a reminder of the dangerous bends coming up and they should be cautious. But people shouldn't have to rely on a crashed car as a road-safety measure; there should have been adjustments made to the road a long time ago to improve safety. But, sadly, I have found that the local authorities are reluctant to spend money on road-safety improvements unless there have been fatalities. It shouldn't have to take a death for this to happen, and there have been many crashes and near misses on this stretch of road, and a number of people avoid it due to its notoriously dangerous reputation.

The Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales outlined that the Welsh Government are devolving this area to local authorities, through corporate joint committees, but I'm concerned that Denbighshire County Council has only received £49,500 from the Welsh Government for the road safety and capital revenue grant, and they are reluctant to spend that money. So, can I receive a statement outlining what the Welsh Government are doing to ensure local authorities have the right guidance to spend the grant money in the right areas and that they are properly resourced? Thank you.

Thank you for that question. Clearly, the announcements that the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales has made recently about the allocation of funding and the role of the corporate committees, and indeed the responsibilities of the local authorities, is crucial to making sure that this allocation of road funding particularly for road safety improvement is accompanied with clear guidance on how that money is allocated. And, of course, it's absolutely crucial that it is focused on road safety. The grant, of course, will be increased, if you support our budget, in the coming year. It's going to be really important to provide that road safety improvement that you call for.

I thank the Trefnydd.

Item 4 today is a statement by the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership: apprenticeships. I call on the Minister, Jack Sargeant. 

Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'm here today delivering on exactly what you told our First Minister mattered during her listening exercise: jobs, opportunities and a stronger Welsh economy. And there's no better example of Welsh Labour's transformative vision in action than our pioneering apprenticeship programme. 

This Welsh Labour Government isn't just talking about jobs and opportunities, we're delivering them, powered by one of Wales's greatest success stories. Llywydd, as your skills Minister, who started as an apprentice myself, I'm living proof of how Welsh Labour's apprenticeship vision transforms lives. That training took me from the shop floor to a degree in industrial engineering, and ultimately to leading Wales's skills agenda. This isn't just policy for me, it's personal. 

Under Welsh Labour's leadership, we've built something extraordinary, a world-class programme that energises every corner of our economy. From green construction to creative industries, from renewable energy to advanced engineering, from healthcare to hospitality, Welsh Labour has created apprenticeship pathways that are powering Wales forward. 

Returning to Coleg Cambria recently, where my own journey began, I saw first-hand how Welsh Labour's bold investment in skills is paying off. These apprentices aren't just learning, they're building Wales's future economy, filled with enthusiasm and ambition that proves why apprenticeships are the cornerstone of our progressive skills agenda. 

The success of the Welsh Labour Government's vision speaks through the numbers: over 6,200 young people launched their careers through apprenticeships in just six months last year. Llywydd, we're going further, creating opportunities for people at every stage of life. More than 2,290 people aged 40 plus embarked on apprenticeships, proving it's never too late to pursue new dreams. And with over half our apprentices aged 25 plus, we're helping people reinvent their careers at any age. 

Llywydd, we're breaking down barriers and opening doors. That's the Welsh Labour way. An impressive 59 per cent of our apprentices are women, rising to 67 per cent in higher apprenticeships. We've doubled participation from black, Asian and minority ethnic communities to 10 per cent, and we're still pushing forward. Last year we had a mix of 515 disabled people and people with additional learning needs join our apprenticeship programmes. This isn't just statistics, this is Welsh Labour delivering real change, real opportunities for everyone. 

Look at Needle Rock in the Llywydd's own constituency of Ceredigion, where two apprentices are now preparing to take the reins of the company. Or Megan Christie, who progressed from an engineering apprenticeship at GE Aviation to inspiring the next generation across Cymru. These aren't just success stories, they're living proof of Welsh Labour's commitment to building a stronger Wales. 

Our vision extends across 23 sectors and four levels, from foundation to degree level, creating pathways that work for everyone. Employers get the skilled workforce they need, while apprentices earn while they learn, combining practical experience with academic excellence. 

This Welsh Government is driving Wales's green revolution through our apprenticeship programme. From training in cutting-edge green technologies to digital innovation and AI, we're building the skilled workforce that will power tomorrow's sustainable economy. These aren't just training programmes; they're our investment in Wales's future. Llywydd, my recent meeting with the National Union of Students Cymru reinforced our commitment to listening and adapting. Because this isn't about top-down decisions; it's about Welsh Labour working hand in hand with learners to create programmes that truly serve their needs. 

And the impact reaches far beyond individual success stories. This is about Welsh Labour's vision for a stronger, fairer and more prosperous Wales. When businesses boost productivity through apprenticeships, our whole economy grows stronger. When people of all ages access new opportunities, our communities thrive. Llywydd, that's the Welsh Labour difference—delivering real change, real opportunities and real results for Wales. Through our apprenticeship programme, we're building a Wales where everyone has the chance to succeed, and we won't stop until we've made that vision a reality. Diolch. 

I welcome the Minister’s statement on apprenticeships and thank him for providing advanced sight of it today. I also welcome the opportunity to acknowledge Apprenticeship Week Wales 2025 and the vital role apprenticeships play in our economy. They help create a resilient, skilled and dynamic workforce in Wales. Apprenticeships provide a valuable pathway to prosperity, dispelling the myth that success is only achievable through university. I commend the Minister for his tireless championing of apprenticeships, from both the backbenches and now from the front. However, I want to focus on the Welsh Government’s record on apprenticeships, because today’s statement gives us no new information and no new announcements.

Minister, provisional figures released last November showed that apprenticeship starts fell from 5,335 in quarter 3 of 2022-23 to just 4,565 in quarter 3 of the following year—a 15 per cent drop. Have you identified the cause of this decline, and how will it be addressed? The Welsh Government lowered its apprenticeship target from 125,000 to just 100,000, perhaps foreshadowing the fall in numbers. The flagship apprenticeship programme budget was cut by 14 per cent in 2024-25, which is estimated to result in up to 10,000 fewer apprenticeship starts. As a strong advocate of apprenticeships, Minister, what message do you believe this sends to the people of Wales? Ten thousand fewer opportunities mean 10,000 fewer young people building their careers and getting ahead in life. That doesn’t quite sound to me like delivery.

That said, I commend the increase in women taking up apprenticeships, as well as the rise to 10 per cent in participation from black, Asian and minority ethnic communities, as noted in your statement. These successes are significant, but they come against a backdrop of fewer places overall. Meanwhile, key sectors are facing major declines. The number of learners starting foundation apprenticeships in health and social care fell by 34 per cent this year, whilst apprenticeship starts in the sector dropped by 27 per cent. Similarly, in construction—an industry already facing a projected shortfall of some 9,000 workers by 2027—we are now expecting to lose 565 apprentices this year. These skills shortages will cost our economy tens of millions of pounds in lost output, stalling growth and harming communities. Large firms like Airbus, which I very much look forward to visiting later this week, and Valero oil refinery in Pembroke, have long-established, highly sought-after apprenticeship schemes. But, given their geographical concentration, we must support the small and medium-sized enterprises—SMEs—spread across Wales. The burden of hiring apprentices for small businesses is significant, so how is the Welsh Government making it easier for sole traders and SMEs to take on apprentices?

Beyond funding cuts, Wales’s apprenticeship system lacks strategic coherence. Estyn has identified serious shortcomings, patchy provision, inadequate guidance and the absence of a clear national strategy. Minister, I know you won't be satisfied with this situation, so how will the Welsh Government address Estyn's concerns and bridge the data gaps to ensure apprenticeships align with labour market needs? A key step forward would be a skills audit—something I've long called for—so that Wales can better understand its current and future workforce needs and how apprenticeships can fill those gaps. From floating offshore wind to hydrogen and everything in between, does the Government have a clear picture of the skills Wales will need? More importantly, how is it creating excitement within the education system so young people see the opportunities emerging in these new industries and, therefore, want to become apprentices following that path?

I also believe Wales is, sadly, falling behind England in terms of apprenticeship opportunities. The range of degree apprenticeships available here is particularly limited, forcing many young people to look elsewhere. Now, I have no issue with students broadening their horizons by leaving Wales to study, but I do see a problem if we fail to provide the right opportunities within Wales itself, be they employment opportunities or training opportunities, especially given the diversity of the economy we have here in Wales. Dirprwy Lywydd, as I said in this Chamber only two weeks ago, a strong economy is not a 'nice to have', it is essential. Apprenticeships are fundamental to our economic future. I believe the Minister deeply cares about this, not just politically but personally. However, I also believe more needs to be done. The Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee will continue to take evidence on apprenticeships—

You need to conclude now, please.

—and I urge the Minister to take seriously the recommendations that will be brought forward. Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd.

Thank you to Sam Kurtz for his recognition and kind words towards me as a former apprentice, Deputy Presiding Officer, but certainly the recognition for National Apprenticeship Week from his benches—an important week for everyone to recognise, and the importance of what apprenticeship means to our economy, but also, if you serve your time as an apprentice, what that can mean to you and your life chances, going forward. It is very welcome to hear, and I'm grateful to the Member for the way in which he provides constructive questions on the floor of the Chamber. I'll try and get through as many as I can in the time, Presiding Officer.

The Member points to the commitment of 100,000 starts. He knows full well the reasons behind that; they were set out in the economy committee in June 2024 by the former economy Secretary. And my message to Wales around apprenticeships and our commitment to apprenticeships is in the next budget round, which is coming in front of all Members of this Senedd, and £144 million is set aside for apprenticeships. That's not the only skills offer we have within our budget, Presiding Officer. We have an increase in the flexible skills programme, by £6.5 million. We have support for the green personal learning accounts. We have support for the Wales Union Learning Fund funding. So, our message is clear: we take skills seriously, and apprenticeships are at the heart of that. It's the most money we've ever invested in apprenticeships, and that's against the backdrop of the loss of European funding—a direct consequence of Brexit. Now, whilst I accept the referendum and the result of the referendum, we also have to realise the impacts that that brings.

The Member points to a number of places within his contribution, particularly on health and social care, and construction. They are two vital sectors in the Welsh economy—construction, in particular, for all of the things, to build the infrastructure that Wales needs to see. And I was very grateful for a meeting with a round-table of built environment apprentices, from across the sector, in Wrexham just last week, to discuss their challenges within the system, but also the good things in the apprenticeship system and to encourage more people into those environments and careers.

On the points around health and social care, the Member will know that health and social care apprenticeships cover almost half of our apprenticeship starts in the Welsh Government. So, that's an area we take seriously. But we know, don't we, Deputy Presiding Officer, of the challenges within that particular sector, and the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care and I are particularly keen to have dialogue with key stakeholders around, perhaps, the alternatives within existing budgets so that we can provide more opportunity within that sector.

The Member then points to a skills audit. He will be pleased to know, I am sure, that I’ve undertaken with the Minister for Higher and Further Education a green skills review, looking at our delivery to date on the net-zero action plan, but also looking to the future as to where we can take those steps to make more advances in that sector. Jobs in green growth is a key priority for the First Minister and this Welsh Government, and we take it seriously.

Just some final points, Deputy Presiding Officer, to reel off. He talks about excitement in the sector. Well, I agree—it does need to start at that age. That’s why I’m pleased Careers Wales are taking steps to encourage students to think about apprenticeships. That’s why it’s important that we have this statement today and the commitment from the Member and his benches. There is also, perhaps, more of a role for junior apprenticeships, which I know the Cabinet Secretary for Education is interested in. I do look forward to the ETRA committee recommendations to see what comes of that. Of course, I will take it seriously.

Dirprwy Lywydd, there are thousands of apprentices in every single constituency across Wales. That’s something we’re delivering against. I’m committed to 100,000 apprentices in this Senedd term. That’s a significant number against a backdrop of a budget of £144 million this year. Diolch.

Thank you to the Minister for his statement.

Now, the Minister is right—there are a number of things we can be proud of with how we’ve developed apprenticeship programmes here in Wales. Much of that, of course, will be on display tomorrow in the Neuadd at an event sponsored by the cross-party group on apprenticeships. I’d encourage all Members to go down, speak to those apprentices, look at the offer that is available to learners, and get involved. The social mobility potential of apprenticeships will be on full display, and it’s incredibly promising and looking to be an incredibly beneficial event.

I understand that the Minister needed to do a statement today on apprenticeships given that it’s apprenticeships week, but I have to say this statement has come across as a tick-box exercise. Yes, we need to celebrate what’s being achieved, but we also need to acknowledge the cold, hard reality of the situation facing us down the line. I know he’s aware of that, but we needed some reflection on the way forward from the Minister today. Medr, for example, is now in the process of designing a new apprenticeship programme. Where does the Minister see that going? Issues around funding—how does the Minister see that developing? There are real anxieties in the sector at the moment. So, yes, let's celebrate, but let’s also demonstrate that we are seeking solutions to those issues.

So, let’s focus on some of those issues. First off, ColegauCymru is calling for a clear post-16 vocational education and training strategy to tackle the lack of direction in current policy. Aligning skills with economic needs will drive growth, create fair opportunities and support a stronger workforce, thereby aligning with key recommendations from the Welsh Government and research into Finland’s world-class system. He mentioned a skills strategy. When will we see that green skills review and what does he actually mean by 'green skills', because the consistent feedback we get from providers when we mention green skills is, 'What does it actually mean?' They aren’t sure about what exactly they’re expected to do in those situations. So, what does he exactly mean by 'green skills'?

Secondly, skill shortages remain a major challenge for SMEs, limiting investment in economic growth. You mentioned growth in your statement. Well, this is one way of unlocking growth in Wales. The FSB is urging the Welsh Government to ensure businesses can access the skilled workforce they need by delivering an SME-focused skills strategy through Medr and strengthening Careers Wales to better connect businesses with education providers. So, what conversations are happening in that regard?

Third, there remain consistent barriers in place for learners to access apprenticeship programmes. Barriers such as transport costs and low apprenticeship wages still affect apprenticeship completion rates and prevent people from starting apprenticeships, particularly from those deprived areas. So, where are we on looking at how we break down those barriers for learners?

Finally, during committee, Minister, you stated you didn’t agree with all of the contents of the Centre for Economics and Business Research report commissioned by National Training Federation Wales and ColegauCymru, noting that some of the analysis was based on data from up to a decade ago. Now, I think that stakeholders are confused by your comments that only data that was up to a decade old was used to look at trends over the last decade. You also suggested that the report did not incorporate the Welsh Government’s interventions on a one-year basis, including cash injections through the apprenticeship programme, which increased activity. So, could you please provide some clarity on those comments? It would be greatly appreciated.

So, in conclusion, Dirprwy Lywydd, yes, let’s celebrate this apprenticeship week, but let’s also work to make sure that we have something to celebrate in the future.

Diolch yn fawr, Luke, for those comments and, again, thank you for the way in which the Member set the comments and contribution out this afternoon. His work as the co-chair of the cross-party group on apprenticeships is vital, I think, in the Senedd, and I’m grateful for the time he spends on that. I wish him well in the event tomorrow in the Senedd. I’m hoping to be there, Presiding Officer, but appearances elsewhere may prevent me now from being able to do that. But I’ll certainly try my best and engage with the sector, no doubt, in other forums if that isn’t achievable.

The Member sets out a number of points, doesn’t he? He talks about Medr and the role of Medr. Well, Medr will deliver against the policy statement that the Welsh Government has set out, and I’ll be working with Medr to maximise the opportunities, when it comes to apprenticeship programmes, for the people of Wales. The Member will be aware of the work of Medr and the future provision of apprenticeships and what they should look like post 2027, taking into account the priorities set by the Welsh Government. So, it will need to work with partners and stakeholders to ensure that whatever comes next in Wales meets the needs of learners, it meets the needs of employers and it meets the needs of the economy. I think that his cross-party group will play an important role in that, and organisations like ColegauCymru and the National Training Federation Wales.

The Member then further talks to the green skills review. I had the first meeting of the green skills review last month, in the middle of last month, which took a range of views from stakeholders in industry, from the education sector as well and from trade unions there. When it comes to green skills, I’ll be led by the needs of industry in particular, but, just to give a flavour of where I see things, Presiding Officer, to support decarbonisation in our important industries, to develop those new technologies, whether that be in hydrogen or other areas, to realise the potential when it comes to renewable energy, particularly offshore wind: what are the skills that we need; how is the net zero skills action plan, which describes some of those skills already, how are we delivering against that; are there further steps that we need to take to make sure that we do deliver against that action plan? So, that will be the basis of the green skills review. I’ll say more about that when that process concludes in the near future, Luke.

The Member then talks about barriers to people becoming apprentices, perhaps, and apprenticeships. I think that, in response to Sam Kurtz, I didn’t answer his point on SMEs. He mentioned Airbus, which we’re very grateful for, and he’ll have a great visit to my constituency when he goes there, Presiding Officer, but the importance of SMEs in doing that—. I recognise some of the barriers that he mentions. We will work with SMEs to make sure that they do try and overcome those barriers, but I’m asking officials to do that now. When it comes to barriers to potential students becoming apprentices, that’s the important work. That’s why I had the discussion with NUS Cymru about their role and the voice of learners to try and overcome some of the challenges.

The point on wages, Presiding Officer, is a point that I've raised with the Low Pay Commission. It’s not a responsibility of mine, but I have had the conversation with the Low Pay Commission at UK level around the need to ensure that apprentices are paid a fair wage, and the right wage, in the circumstances we find ourselves in. 

Two final points, Presiding Officer. On the report and the comments made in committee, I'm happy to write to the Member in further detail about those reasons. The Member points to a tick-box exercise, Presiding Officer. The Member has a choice to make in a few weeks' time to put a tick in the right box and to vote for more money for apprentices come the budget. 'Any old excuse' he says. 'Any old excuse.' I look forward to the Member choosing the right tick in the right box on that day.

I was very pleased to help mark apprenticeship week by visiting two settings in and near to my constituency yesterday, Minister: a Flying Start nursery in Caldicot, where I saw first-hand the very effective and nurturing environment there for children from more disadvantaged backgrounds, their families and the wider communities, and then on to an almost brand-new, very impressive residential care home just outside Caldicot, which is absolutely top quality. Both of those settings had apprentices of all ages, as you mentioned earlier, Minister, and they were very much part of the team effort, providing top-quality services for those local communities. In fact, in the childcare setting, the Flying Start nursery, Minister, I met Sidney, their youngest member of staff, who left school at 16, and is now completing her childcare apprenticeship, excelling in her work, and even named in a report by Care Inspectorate Wales for the quality of her work. It was all very positive, but one issue that was raised with me, Minister, was that, very often, young people at school are not sufficiently informed of the apprenticeship route and the opportunities available through apprenticeships. And I was asked to specifically raise that as to what we can do to make sure that they are properly informed.

I thank John Griffiths for that and taking the opportunity to celebrate National Apprenticeship Week on the floor of the Senedd by visiting those two businesses, the Flying Start nursery and the residential care home in his constituency, proving that, in every corner of Wales, across a number of sectors, Presiding Officer, there are apprentices within those businesses and making sure those businesses thrive in a productive way. Can I just place on record my best wishes to Sidney, in particular, when she's going through her studies, and wish her well for her future career?

John Griffiths made a really important point around making sure school leavers or potential school leavers are informed of the choices. That's the work of Careers Wales and the work they're doing. But it's the work of all of us as individual Members, Presiding Officer, also to promote those opportunities. And as a former apprentice myself, I think it's incumbent on apprentices now, and those alumni, to consider what they can do to promote that work. And I was having a conversation with my former colleague, Mike, who I served my time with, Presiding Officer. He now has a Master's degree in engineering management. He's leading projects across north Wales and the north-west of England, and he is promoting apprenticeships to school leavers. We need more of that. There are lots of exciting stories about that. This is a part of this week. That's why I'm bringing forward this statement on the floor of the Chamber today.

I'd like to thank the Minister for bringing this statement today. In my own personal perspective, I think that learning a skill, as an apprenticeship, holds just as much weight as holding a degree sometimes, if not more, in my view. Because there's an awful lot of hard work, sometimes, doing an apprenticeship.

But what I'd like to raise with you, Minister, is, in my constituency, there's a business called Kiernan steel in Llandrindod, and they're doing fantastic work in attracting apprentices from rural communities to work for them to get those skills and then to continue their working life. However, they are experiencing some difficulty with the apprenticeship levy. So, would you welcome coming to visit that business along with me so we can discuss these problems with them directly, so you can also hear that and take that back to your Government colleagues to help inform the Government policy on this important area of business?

Can I thank James Evans for that? I agree: learning a skill and a trade is of particular importance across Wales. I've often said, Presiding Officer, when I was on the backbenches, that we should have more apprentices, or those who've served apprenticeships, in positions within the Senedd, and including Government as well. So, I would agree with him on the importance and the recognition of apprenticeships, alongside the need for those people who choose the university route. But that is not to forget that we do have degree apprenticeship programs as well, and we do have other opportunities to explore that route.

The Member points to Kiernan steel in his constituency and to the apprenticeship levy. He will be aware of the work of the UK Government around the new growth and skills levy. The detail of that is still being worked through, but of course I'd like to hear the views of Welsh businesses and Welsh learning providers around the thinking around the apprenticeship levy. I was very pleased to see, Presiding Officer, last year, I think in October, Kiernan steel's announcement of an expansion within his constituency, supported by £140,000 of Welsh Government money to support that expansion, creating 39 new jobs, including five apprentices, in the space of construction and infrastructure and the steel needed around that. As I say, Presiding Officer, jobs and green growth is a key priority for this Government. It's that type of work that will help deliver against that. I'll certainly consider coming to the Member's constituency to hear directly from the business and the apprentices themselves, when my diary allows.

Thank you for your statement, Minister. I believe that I'm right in saying that you are the only former apprentice who has held this portfolio, so it's really great to have your experience in this.

There is much to celebrate here with the apprenticeship model that's being offered in Wales, and you've spoken previously about the challenges and opportunities that face Wales with regard to the development of new technology—both AI and carbon-neutral infrastructure. The skills required for those are quite significant, really, going forward. I think they will involve people taking up really high-quality apprenticeships, like those available at companies such as Airbus, and also in the wind turbine maintenance facility at Coleg Llandrillo that I visited recently, which is a facility that has been partly funded by Welsh Government as well, and is really welcome in Rhyl. Can you outline further the conversations you've had with providers about how we can support these further, going forward?

Diolch yn fawr, Carolyn Thomas, for those questions, and for raising the importance of high-quality apprenticeships in Wales. The Member points to two examples in north Wales, Presiding Officer: firstly, Airbus, in my own constituency, who are known for having the gold standard of apprenticeship programmes across the world. They are training the very best aircraft engineers from their Broughton plant, in collaboration with Coleg Cambria in Deeside, and we will go on supporting them through the apprenticeship budget of £144 million in the next budget round.

The Member also then points to RWE, and I think the offshore wind maintenance technicians that are trained in north Wales. I know the Member has been on a number of occasions to see the importance of that programme, and just the high-quality carbon-neutral technologies that they are using, and the experiences in automation, digitisation and AI. Presiding Officer, I had a quick look at a number of apprenticeship schemes that are open for applications now. RWE's offshore wind turbines is one of them. So, colleagues outside of the Senedd Chamber should consider looking on there and looking on the Apprenticeships Wales website to find where there are more opportunities in those two key areas that Carolyn pointed out, but areas across the country as well.

And finally, Joyce Watson.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I also look forward as a co-host to the event tomorrow, because I'm the co-chair of the cross-party group on apprenticeships. They do play a vital role in shaping the future workforce, and initiatives like Cyfle are making a huge impact. I've seen the south-west Wales shared apprenticeships scheme grow and flourish since it started as a small project in Carmarthenshire. It has helped, so far, 780 trainee plumbers, bricklayers, plasterers, carpenters and other construction workers learn vital and often well-paid trades. Launched in 2013, it’s now the largest shared apprenticeship scheme in the UK. That’s a huge Welsh success story, supporting young adults into sustainable employment within the construction industry and helping them further their careers and their chances of gaining employment. Currently, around 90 per cent of apprentices who complete the three years have secured full-time employment in their chosen trade, but what it does that makes it unique—

You do need to ask your question now, please, Joyce.

I will. It offers the flexibility to take on apprentices to the SMEs in my area by partnering with local businesses. My question to you is this, Minister: it is a hugely successful shared apprenticeship scheme, which serves the apprentices and the SMEs, so, first of all, will you congratulate them for all the work that they do, but look more widely at that type of model to help grow businesses where SMEs are the main employer?

Can I thank Joyce Watson for the comments and the question, Presiding Officer? Joyce Watson’s work over a number of years now—not just as the co-chair of the apprenticeship cross-party group, but on the cross-party group for construction and the built environment as well—is really welcome, and it goes a long way in supporting the industry and being the voice of industry here in the Senedd.

The Member points to the shared apprenticeship scheme as a real success of intervention from this Welsh Labour Government, and she’s absolutely right: the scheme does allow apprentices to complete a full apprenticeship programme by working with a number of different employers to gain the skillsets they require to become qualified. This is of particular importance to the SME sector, as Joyce Watson pointed out, and the shared apprenticeship scheme is available across all regions of Wales in a number of sectors, including engineering, creative, digital and media, technical theatre, and community sports. They also provide a sheltered and supported employment environment for those with additional learning needs, which I think is also very welcome.

We’ll go on continuing the shared apprenticeship scheme, and of course I’ll congratulate those apprentices in that scheme, but I wish to congratulate all apprentices and thank all learning providers and employers for employing apprentices and supporting Apprenticeship Week this week. The Welsh Government and Ministers within the Cabinet look forward to exploring the schemes in their own portfolios across Wales this coming week, and across the year as well. I’m grateful for all their support and we’ll go on supporting apprentices here in Wales, and I’m delighted to say that, as a former apprentice myself who now has responsibility for apprenticeships in Wales.

I thank the Minister.

Item 5 is next, a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, the Trefnydd and Chief Whip on the 'LGBTQ+ Action Plan for Wales', with a progress update. I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Jane Hutt.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. February is LGBT+ History Month in the UK, where we reflect on the progress that has been made towards having an inclusive society, where all our citizens feel free to live, to thrive and to shine.

Every year, there is a theme, and this year it is activism, and I would like to shine a spotlight on Leo Abse, the Welsh Labour Member of Parliament who fought to ensure that the recommendations of the 1957 Wolfenden report to decriminalise homosexuality in the UK reached the statute book. It’s doubtful whether without Leo Abse’s tireless campaigning the UK would have passed the landmark legislation as early as 1967. Without this, the gradual progress of legislation on gender recognition, on equality and on equal marriage might have been delayed for many years.

We are recognised internationally for the good progress we’ve made. In 2023, the 'LGBTQ+ Action Plan for Wales' was praised by the UN’s independent expert on sexual orientation and gender identity on its ambition to address LGBTQ+ human rights. The plan is seen as an example of good practice in human rights policy making, and we continue to be committed to delivering the actions set out within the plan through our collaboration with third sector organisations.

Dirprwy Lywydd, we're commissioning an external evaluation process to look at how we're making Wales a safer place, improving healthcare outcomes, ensuring education in Wales is inclusive, and improving inclusion and participation in all areas for LGBTQ+ people. A trans woman from Aberystwyth wrote to us recently, saying,

'it's good that progress is now being made on the LGBTQ+ Action Plan for Wales. There is still much work to do to meet the objectives set out in the plan and it's vital that we maintain momentum and the political will to drive it forward. Personally, I feel encouraged that Welsh Government have introduced the plan, but I would like to see some concrete outcomes from it sooner rather than later.'

I am happy to acknowledge the progress we've made in the last year, while agreeing there is still much to do. I pledge to carry on striving as a Government to improve the lot of all our LGBTQ+ citizens.

Last year, grass-roots Pride events across Wales received Welsh Government support. These include Glitter Cymru, Cowbridge, Gisda, Barry, Monmouth, Flint and Colwyn Bay, to name a few. Michael Price, chair of Brecon Pride, said,

'Pride events like Brecon Pride have a truly transformative impact on rural communities like ours'.

Support for Pride Cymru alongside grass-roots Pride events will continue through 2025 to ensure that the LGBTQ+ communities and allies across the length and breadth of Wales can celebrate and commemorate the earlier Stonewall riots and liberation marches in solidarity.

My officials have already been working with their colleagues in the UK Government to make sure that the Bill to ban the use of unacceptable and ineffective conversion practices, promised in the King’s Speech last year, will fully meet the needs of LGBTQ+ people in Wales. Work is well progressed and we look forward to it being brought forward during the current parliamentary session.

We've worked closely over the past year, funding Galop to ensure that advocacy work and therapeutic services are available to those within the LGBTQ+ community who have experienced harmful conversion practices and require specialist support. We have seen these services being key to demonstrating our support as we work with the UK Government towards the banning conversion practices Bill and will continue to support Galop through 2025.

Officials have begun talking with the UK Government about gender recognition, making sure that the voice of Wales will be at the heart of considerations on further reforms that will reduce the burdens on trans people in what is, and has always been, merely an administrative process.

Our 'HIV Action Plan for Wales 2023-2026' continues to deliver in partnership with Fast Track Cymru, with all Welsh health boards due to sign up this financial year to the Paris declaration on ending new HIV cases, AIDS-related deaths and wiping out the stigma attached to HIV.

We've worked with colleagues in Business Wales to produce a range of online information, tools and guidance on creating diverse and inclusive working environments, to improve business owner understanding of fair work. These resources are now available and will be promoted via a publicity campaign in the spring of this year, 2025.

As we look to the future, I would like to give praise to three current LGBTQ+ heroes, Lou Englefield, Charlotte Galloway and Jess Williams, who led the successful bid to bring the Euro games, the largest multisport event for LGBTQ+ athletes and allies in Europe, to Cardiff in 2027. This will bring people from many countries to our capital and will provide an opportunity for us to show our values of including, welcoming and celebrating LGBTQ+ lives. 

We continue to strive to make Wales the most LGBTQ+ friendly nation in Europe. Wales must be a place of safety, a place for every single person to freely live and love as who we are.

Thank you for your statement, Cabinet Secretary, as well as your earlier briefing. As you say in your statement, this month we celebrate LGBT+ History Month, and what a fitting way to mark this occasion, by updating us on your plans to make Wales the most LGBT friendly nation in Europe.

We have made great strides in tackling hate and discrimination directed towards members of the LGBT community, but we still have a fair way to go. Nobody should face hate or prejudice because of who they choose to fall in love with. I wish to join you in applauding the work of Leo Abse in ending the criminalisation of homosexuality. To have had national heroes and national treasures imprisoned because of their sexuality was a dark time for our nation, and Leo's efforts in implementing the Wolfenden report are to be remembered and commemorated.

I would also like to pay tribute to another MP who championed LGBT rights: David Cameron. He not only introduced same-sex marriage, he also recognised and apologised for the hateful section 28. Cabinet Secretary, do you agree that we need more MPs like Leo and David and fewer like Oliver Ryan and Andrew Gwynne, whose homophobic comments have earnt their suspension from the Labour Party?

I welcome the discussions you have had on banning conversion therapy. Cabinet Secretary, can you provide any sort of timescale for the ban’s introduction? While I agree with the need to end conversion practices as soon as possible, what discussions have you or your officials had with UK Government to ensure that any legislation does not impede the ability of parents and medical professionals to help young people struggling with gender dysphoria? Cabinet Secretary, I note that your officials are talking to UK Government about gender recognition reforms. Are you able to update us following media reports that the UK Government are no longer seeking to change the gender recognition process?

Finally, Cabinet Secretary, I welcome the progress on the HIV action plan and I would like to thank the Prime Minister for taking an at-home HIV test, to help end the stigma around HIV and testing. Will you be encouraging your Cabinet colleagues to emulate the Prime Minister? Thank you again for your statement and I look forward to working with you to put an end to homophobia and transphobia in Wales. Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch yn fawr, Altaf Hussain, and thank you so much for welcoming so much this opportunity for this update today, and joining us in celebrating history month. I believe you have done this every time we have. And indeed, I will be paying tribute to Hannah Blythyn, of course, the former Deputy Minister for Social Partnership, who brought the plan to us, to be passed by this Senedd.

We have made great strides, but we have a long way to go. I think one of the issues, particularly in relation to hate crime, I would say, is that you think you've made a step forward and then you find that, actually, you're pulled back. I think your points about leadership, the leadership of Leo Abse, as I've already acknowledged, and I do also recognise the leadership of David Cameron and deplore any politician of any party—and I note you referred to Andrew Gwynne—for hate that is expressed in any way. People who have power and responsibility, in any political party, have to be held to account.

Because when we look at hate crime, we're committed to ending hate crime in Wales and creating a safe place for the LGBTQ+ community, but also we need the leadership from policing. We work closely with policing in Wales to examine and improve procedures within the police, and guidance for officers, concerning hate crime. And we support the Hate Hurts Wales campaign. It's important to recognise that police forces, for example, are engaging with the Office of Communications to discuss the implementation of the Online Safety Act 2023, because this is, again, where we see the toxicity and negativity in social media in terms of the world we're living in at the moment. And this is where hate crime can be so pervasive.

I think it's important that we just update, as I have done, on the work that we are doing to support the UK Government, which has committed to its manifesto on conversion practice. It was evident in the King's Speech that work is progressing well to ensure that this work is brought forward during this parliamentary session, and to recognise that this is something where, in our programme for government, we said that we would use all available powers to ban all aspects of LGBTQ+ conversion therapy that are in our powers, and seek the devolution of any necessary additional powers as well.

I'm glad that you have drawn attention to the HIV plan, and the fact that our Prime Minister in the UK Government, Sir Keir Starmer, joined by the Terrence Higgins Trust representative, was the first sitting Prime Minister to have a rapid home test. This is, again, about leadership and raising awareness of National HIV Testing Week. The UK Government is committed to ending new HIV cases by 2030, and it has a plan that it is introducing in the summer of this year.

But, of course, we have our own HIV action plan, as I said. It continues to be delivered in partnership with Fast Track Cymru, as I said in my statement. It's important that we recognise that this is signing up to the Paris declaration as well. So, again, I thank you, Altaf Hussain, for your leadership, for standing up, for recognising that we want to see, as you said, that Wales can become the most LGBTQ+ friendly nation in Europe.

You have referenced leadership a few times in your response, Cabinet Secretary, and I believe that leadership has never been more critical in upholding LGBTQ+ rights. We need to see that from the Welsh Government more than ever, as we see a continuous and intensifying attack on the rights of LGBTQ+ people to be able to live freely and with dignity being led by populist politicians, both here and abroad, who are intent on crushing those rights as they scapegoat minority groups, inflicting both cruelty and humiliation.

While Trump persecutes marginalised groups by executive order from the White House, we hear UK Labour Ministers, such as Wes Streeting, respond with shameful dog whistles, as in The Sun over the weekend, where he intimated that equality and diversity programmes within the NHS are daft nonsense. We also heard the reports referenced by Altaf Hussain this weekend, that UK Labour is no longer looking to keep its manifesto promise to reform the process of gender transition, modernising the Gender Recognition Act 2004. Labour sources were quoted as describing the issue of gender identity as a can of worms, and sources at the Department of Education, which has responsibility at the UK level for the equalities brief, didn’t deny the report. The Labour manifesto read:

‘We will modernise, simplify and reform the intrusive and outdated gender recognition law to a new process.’

And, of course, the LGBTQ+ action plan here in Wales states that it will seek the devolution of powers in relation to gender recognition to better support our trans community. You've stated this afternoon, as you've done earlier this year, that your officials have met with the UK Government to lay out our policy priorities for further reform of the Gender Recognition Act, and will work with the UK Government as their own policy emerges.

You said that it would be preferable to have the same legislation in England and Wales, but you retain that commitment to seek the devolution of powers to legislate, should it be appropriate, following your discussion with the UK Government. Well, it feels to me that seeking the urgent devolution of powers is now absolutely appropriate, given this apparent rolling back on supporting trans people’s rights, and given that the LGBTQ+ action plan categorically commits to helping trans people obtain a gender recognition certificate, as a way of demonstrating that Welsh Government support for our trans communities is visible. So, have the UK Government discussed with the Welsh Government their position as regards reform of the Gender Recognition Act? And if they aren't going to keep their manifesto promise, when can we expect that request for the devolution of powers?

On many actions in the plan, the progress has been too slow. Another example is the provision of national trans guidance for schools and local authorities. That was to be completed by summer 2023. Then in last year’s update, we were told that there would be a public consultation, the outcome of which would be published in 2024. So, what update can you provide on this action to enable more inclusive education, identified as key by the plan?

Plaid Cymru believes the current worrying political climate demands a doubling down on progressive commitments, as outlined in the LGBTQ+ action plan, not opportunist and cowardly attempts at appeasement of the populist right. This, of course, is LGBTQ+ history month, and the theme this year is activism and social change. Well, activism means taking action and not speaking about it, and challenging to bring about change. 

Politics, yes, is about debate, but what should not be up for debate is whether the state should be allowed to target a small group of its citizens for misguided political gain, who already face record levels of intolerance, bullying and prejudice, which are driving unacceptable levels of hate crime against them and devastating rates of self-harm and suicide. It’s in this bleak and concerning context that we must see progress accelerated on the stated aim of the LGBTQ+ action plan, which we in Plaid Cymru, of course, co-operated with you on during its formation. Do you agree, and if so, how is this reflected in the draft budget, with the allocation of £700,000 spread across the whole of the equality and human rights budget? Diolch.

Diolch yn fawr, Sioned Williams. As you said, leadership has never been more critical, and it is good that we are having a very collaborative expression of support today in this Chamber, demonstrating cross-party leadership for our LGBTQ+ action plan. I was just referring back to the plan itself, when it was launched in January 2023, and was very mindful of the fact that it was the LGBTQ+ rights embedded in our programme for government for this administration, this Government, and was, as you said, a key component of the co-operation agreement with Plaid Cymru. We’ve developed this bold action plan. Let’s just remember those words again in the ministerial foreword from Hannah Blythyn:

‘We want Wales to be a nation where everyone feels safe to be themselves, to be open about their sexual orientation, gender, and gender expression, at home, in work or at leisure, without feeling threatened. This Action Plan must form part of our collective commitment to create a Wales where everyone feels free’.

And it is that collective commitment that—. We must ensure that that message comes through as a result of this statement today. I was responding to Altaf Hussain about the rise of hate crime, and particularly the responsibility of leadership, particularly in terms of politicians, and making sure that we are standing up and being very clear about our commitment to the plan together.

You made some very specific points, and I’m very pleased to respond in terms of the gender—. I’ve already responded in terms of the work that’s already ongoing in terms of banning conversion practices, but in terms of gender recognition reform, we do have, in our programme for government, as you know, that commitment stating that we would trigger a request to devolve the Gender Recognition Act and support our trans community. We are in discussion with the UK Government in relation to the planning and reform of the Gender Recognition Act. It is a commitment within the UK Government manifesto. I was very pleased to meet Dame Nia Griffith MP last week. She is a Wales Office Minister, as you know, but she has also got responsibilities, as an equalities Minister, for LGBTQ+ policy. So, she is the one directly who we are engaging with, and it is good to have a Wales Office Minister with that responsibility. We discussed the issues and the updates on banning conversion practices, and an update on gender recognition reform as well.

It is also important that we are held to account for all of our commitments within the plan, and that includes looking to our young people and the commitments that we have made. We’re working with stakeholders and partners on identifying and sharing the best ways for schools to support our trans, non-binary and gender-questioning learners. And also just to recognise that, as I said at the outset, we're looking to make a real difference to LGBTQ+ everyday lives, and we're proactively measuring our successes and our work. So, we've established an LGBTQ+ advisory group with lived experience who can provide feedback. We had a panel, an expert panel, helping to develop the plan, but we now need to have that lived experience advisory group to help us, alongside the work that you will do, and indeed in terms of equality and social justice, looking at how we are delivering to ensure that we have trans inclusion.

I think it is important that we recognise at every part of our LGBTQ+ action plan that we are being held to account. We are looking, as I said, at ways in which we can understand how we are implementing it, and what more we can do to measure progress. Now we have an equality evidence unit, which is helping us with this, but I think it is important to say that this external evaluation process—and I'll report more on that—will help us to see whether we are actually making that difference. Of course, it is about education, as you say Sioned. It's also about improving health outcomes, and it's about inclusion and participation in all areas of life.

I hesitate to speak on issues I worked on in Government. I don't want to be like the ghost of Ministers past popping up in the Chamber, but I make the exception on this, because I campaigned for LGBTQ+ equality long before I was elected, and I remain in a small minority in this Chamber still who can speak on this issue from experience and with authenticity. And I stand here at a time when the alarm is sounding all around the world, and sadly closer to home, with LGBTQ+ rights under attack. I was lucky enough to attend a global LGBT leaders conference in Washington DC at the end of last year, and the fear felt in that room was palpable. You felt it, and it was upsetting, and so we know that progress sadly isn't inevitable, whether that's on equality or on action plans.

So, with the theme of activism for LGBT history month—and, Dirprwy Lywydd, I'm not going to indulge you and talk to all 46 actions in the plan—where I think we definitely need further and faster action is around the health and well-being of young trans people here in Wales, and those young people are central to shaping that, around tackling homophobic bullying, ending conversion practice, and more broadly, inclusive healthcare that doesn't presume that you're heterosexual until you prove otherwise.

So, our work is not done, and if the Welsh Government wants to stand with the LGBTQ+ community, then it can't take the foot off the gas. But my message to those people who want to take away our rights and talk us down is: the LGBTQ+ community fought for those rights before, and we'll fight for them again.

Thank you very much indeed, Hannah Blythyn, and thank you for your outstanding continued leadership. I'm looking forward to joining the reception afterwards. And linking to your union commitment as well, the fact is you have had so much influence in our trade union movement, in our political party, and, indeed, now through your role in Government in Wales, by helping to craft and engaging to produce the LGBTQ+ action plan. I think it is really important, and I like to repeat it when I have the opportunity, the fact that it was recognised internationally as an example of good practice in human rights policy making. I'm sure when you joined the global leaders event in Washington, there would have been recognition of that. Certainly, we were very proud that you were a Welsh leader at that event, and I believe Adam Price has also been at that event in previous times. This is our voice on an international scale as well.

I think one of the important things that you've said is that progress isn't inevitable. You can have plans, many plans, particularly on areas in relation to tackling inequalities and prejudice and discrimination, and unless those in leadership roles are held to account, unless we do have those continuing campaigns to show us where there's not enough focus, emphasis, attention, funding—. We know that the work is not done until we deliver those outcomes we want to achieve. 

I think it is important also that we look at those points about access to all our public services, for example, the provision of clinical services for trans, non-binary and gender-questioning children and young people. We want to ensure that young people can access services closer to where they live, and that those services are focused on clinical need, based on clinical evidence as well. 

I do want to also say that we haven't mentioned yet—I did in my statement—the really great importance of the raising-awareness impact of Pride events across Wales. Again, it's in our draft budget for next year that we will be supporting many more Pride events next year.

But I just wanted to also say, finally, we continue to fund Stonewall Cymru—that's a really important commitment—to support the delivery of the ambitions and actions set out within the action plan. And it's also supporting individuals to actively engage in public life. Many of you will be aware of the Equal Power Equal Voice programme, the mentoring programme that Stonewall Cymru play a part in alongside Disability Wales, the Women's Equality Network and the Ethnic Minorities and Youth Support Team Wales, looking at that intersectional need to mentor people, some of whom may think they could become Senedd Members, certainly go into political roles, into public life. Almost 300 people have completed the programme. Many have gone on to leadership roles—politics, charity boards, civil service, third sector—and we've enjoyed the support of almost 200 mentors; many volunteer and support those who are participating in Equal Power Equal Voice. I was very pleased that we could put extra funding into that when the first phase of the Equal Power Equal Voice programme was concluded. So, we're now funding it for the next phase and we'll fund Stonewall Cymru a proposed £102,000 in 2025-26.   

In the wake of the global assault on LGBT equality that Hannah Blythyn and Sioned Williams referred to, has the Welsh Government given further thought to creating a fund of practical solidarity, as part of our commitment to global responsibility, to support LGBT advocacy and community organisations throughout the world, particularly in Africa at the moment, which is facing the Trump decision of not defunding but getting rid of United States Agency for International Development, for example. We need to fill that vacuum. So, what can the Welsh Government do in that regard? 

Secondly, the LGBTQ+ action plan did commit to ensuring young people and stakeholders were engaged in discussions around creating at least an interim healthcare service for trans youth in Wales, so that they didn't have to travel outside of Wales. Will you meet, Minister, and with other Ministers, with trans youth to discuss health services for trans youth? And will you also meet with Welsh clinicians that have been making the case for the creation of a Welsh youth gender service? Will you meet with them to have that engagement, as you promised in the plan? 

Finally, how are you measuring this goal—laudable, we all support—of being the most LGBT-friendly nation in Europe? There was a commitment previously that we were going to publish the data for Wales against the rainbow index, which measures nations on LGBT equality across Europe, produced by ILGA-Europe. Will you publish that index so we can see where we are on that journey to becoming the most LGBT-friendly nation?  

Thank you very much, Adam Price, and, again, the collective solidarity that we've seen coming through the Chamber this afternoon, recognising, as you say, the global assault on many LGBTQ+ people across the world, and recognising it's on our own doorstep as well—. The global leaders conference, I think, would have identified that, which both yourself and Hannah Blythyn have attended and made sure that people know that we are standing up with our plan for LGBTQ+ people and their rights. I will certainly be looking at the rainbow index, and thank you for raising that—I know you've raised that in the past—and see whether we have got access to that data, to enable us, because that's been seen to be a barrier, but I will look at that, and also, of course, at our goal under the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 to be a globally responsible nation. Our children are growing up to be globally responsible citizens, and I do welcome the work and the ways in which many children in schools are working together and learning together about their own lives, their own experiences and their own needs.

I did say earlier on that we do want to ensure that trans children and young people can access services closer to where they live, and that obviously includes health services. So, we have got eight regional providers being established, and we work through the NHS Wales Joint Commissioning Committee on commissioning gender identity services for young people. Of course, as you know, that is via NHS England, but we actually have research, which has to be accessible by children and young people. I would be very happy to meet with young people to discuss these issues as well.

And again, thank you for the leadership and the collective strength, I think, that we see today in this Chamber, in support of the LGBTQ+ action plan, and also for holding us to account for the delivery of it, because we do need to be tested, and the rainbow index is one way of doing this. But, as we go into the spring and summer months, I hope more Senedd Members will encourage and support Pride events. Grass-roots Pride events have a huge impact—as Michael Price said in Brecon, 'a truly transformative impact'.

And finally, John Griffiths.

Cabinet Secretary, in terms of Pride events, I'm sure you would like to join me in congratulating Pride in the Port in Newport, which has just been chosen by UK Pride to host that UK event next year in 2026. Pride in the Port is actually quite a new organisation; it only started in 2022, with an inaugural event in our Belle Vue Park, and then moved into the city centre, with a parade, music, dance and stalls. So, it's grown very rapidly, and it's part of a generally increasing cultural offer in Newport.

Pride in the Port was founded on one simple principle, Cabinet Secretary: that no child in Newport should feel they must leave home to be themselves. So, I'm sure you'd like to, as I say, join me in congratulating them for making Newport a more inclusive and welcoming place, and making that very significant progress in hosting that UK-wide event next year.

I think it's really important, John Griffiths, that you've been able to share this with us. I know it's been in the news, but let's celebrate the fact that Newport will host that UK event in 2026. There will be people from all over Wales and outside of Wales and beyond the UK coming to Wales, coming to Newport. And also can we praise and thank those in your community, with your support, I know, who are actually arranging these events leading up to it and making that submission, making Newport an inclusive place where young people can grow up and be who they are, and that we can support them in their lives?

 I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

The next item is a statement by the Minister for Mental Health and Well-being, maternity and neonatal quality statement. I call on the Minister, Sarah Murphy.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I am pleased to be able to bring forward this oral statement today, as the Cabinet Secretary is, sadly, not very well.

Pregnancy and childbirth are life-changing events for a woman and her family. For the majority, they are a time for celebration as a new life enters the world. Maternity and neonatal staff have a unique role to play as they support women, their partner and baby through pregnancy and childbirth. They also play a key role in giving children the best head start in life. Today, we are publishing the quality statement for maternity and neonatal services. It sets out the outcomes and standards pregnant women, mothers-to-be and their families can expect to receive when accessing care. Ultimately, it is designed to ensure all services have the quality attributes necessary to support delivery of the right care in the right place the first time, leading to better outcomes and experiences for women, babies and their families during pregnancy, childbirth and the postnatal period.

We are publishing this against the backdrop of a changing and challenging landscape for services. The quality and safety of maternity and neonatal services across the UK have been the focus of a series of high-profile and very concerning reviews in recent years, all of which have found worrying failings in units in England and Wales. Independent reviews of maternity services are currently ongoing in maternity care in Swansea and in Nottingham. The quality statement will reflect the learning from these reviews.

The nature of care provided to pregnant women is changing as the birth rate is falling. We are seeing an increasing complexity in the care provided to women, as more women experience conditions such as diabetes, including during pregnancy. We've also seen complexities associated with lifestyle factors, from low birthweight babies to factors associated with society's growing problem with obesity.

The quality statement also recognises the specific issues and obstacles that women from ethnic minority backgrounds face when accessing maternity and neonatal care and the quantifiable negative disparities in health outcomes, particularly in the perinatal period. We're improving data collection and analysis to better understand the experiences of black, Asian and minority ethnic women and families, as well as NHS staff.

Quality statements are designed to set out the policy and planning expectations for clinical conditions and services. This new quality statement for maternity and neonatal care makes it crystal clear what 'good' looks like and helps to drive improved outcomes and experiences for women. It also builds on the national maternity and neonatal safety support programme. As we move into 2025 and look to the future, our ambition is to continue to drive forward the principles of maternity care: providing family-centred care that is safe and effective; enabling continuity of care through the provision of skilled multi-professional teams; and providing a sustainable, quality service.

We want to further integrate maternity and neonatal services to create a single pathway of care for mother and baby, as well as making clear the expectations around service quality, safety and effectiveness. The quality statement sets out seven key actions for all health boards. These will include deploying the new national digital maternity system by March 2026; offering all mothers-to-be a proper choice of birth settings, even if this means in another health board area; implementing and rolling out the bereavement pathways to support women and families who experience the loss of a child.

I want to be clear that all maternity and neonatal services will need to make improvements to meet the ambitions in the quality statement and to ensure high-quality care is consistently provided and that experiences and outcomes are optimised. These improvements will be delivered through the three-year implementation phase of the maternity and neonatal safety support programme. To ensure women and families receive a safe, compassionate, quality service that encompasses a holistic sense of emotional, spiritual and psychological safety, engagement and collaboration with women, parents and families to understand what 'good' looks like must be at the heart of these implementation plans.

The NHS must work with women and families to improve maternity and neonatal services, and they must ensure the voices of all families are heard. We are also publishing the all-Wales perinatal engagement framework today. This sets out the minimum standards for high-quality service-user engagement across all health boards, and provides details of the 10 commitments required to meet this standard. It will support the implementation of engagement methodologies and mechanisms required to capture and embed feedback in service design and improvement.

Dirprwy Lywydd, this quality statement refers exclusively to maternity and neonatal services, and is designed to support improvement in those services and the experience and outcomes of women and babies. However, it should not be seen in isolation. Pregnancy and childbirth are, of course, very important parts of our lives. This quality statement complements the ambition set out in the 'Quality statement for women and girls' health' and the women's health plan, which was published in December, and supports preventative health, including pre-conception care, which will lead to healthier pregnancies and healthier lives.

The evidence increasingly shows that getting things right from the start, by intervening in the first 1,000 days, creates a strong foundation for the future. It can break cycles of disadvantage, and is the best and most cost-effective way to create a happier, healthier, fairer future for Wales. Diolch yn fawr.

I'd like to thank the Minister for delivering the statement today, and I wish the Cabinet Secretary for health well and a speedy recovery.

I welcome the publication of the maternity and neonatal quality statement and the Welsh Government's acknowledgement of the challenges facing those vital services. Ensuring that women and babies and their families receive the highest standards of care is paramount. However, while the statement outlines commendable aspirations, it’s evident that immediate and decisive action is necessary to address the entrenched issues with our maternity and neonatal services.

You mentioned there, around the quality statement, about seven key actions, and the perinatal engagement framework. I'm just interested to hear from you, Minister: who will be responsible for holding health boards to account for delivery on those actions? Will that be the NHS Wales Executive, or will that be at ministerial level? Because, as you're well aware, health boards are autonomous bodies in their own right, and they don't have to do everything the Welsh Government tells them, because what they'll say is they're not priorities for those individual health boards. So, I'd be interested to see how you respond to that.

Recent reports of independent reviews have highlighted significant concerns. The ongoing investigation into maternity care at Swansea Singleton Hospital underscores the need for transparency and accountability, because families have expressed dissatisfaction with the current review process, and they feel exhausted and unheard. So, I'd be interested to hear from you today, Minister, exactly what is the Welsh Government doing to increase transparency and accountability for families who are involved in that.

The commitment to deploying a new national digital maternity system by March 2023 is a positive step. However, you must ensure that investment in digital infrastructure does not overshadow the pressing need for more front-line staff. Our maternity services are grappling with workforce shortages, with midwives and neonatal nurses under immense pressure. Addressing these shortages is critical to providing the care that women and babies deserve in that early stage of life. So, I'd like to know what work the Welsh Government is doing around the workforce shortages in this area. Because to deliver on the strategies that you've set out, you do need a workforce there to deliver them, don't you?

The pledge to offer mothers a genuine choice of birth settings, even if it involves accessing services in another health board area, is commendable. I'm very much in favour of giving patients choice of where they access their care. However, for many families, local maternity services are already stretched very thinly, limiting their choices, so it's imperative to establish a sustainable, well-resourced maternity system across all health boards, ensuring that no family is compelled to travel those extra-long distances just to receive that higher level of care. So, I'd just like to know today, from the draft budget, what exactly is the amount of money that you're putting into this area to make sure that our maternity services are well funded right the way across Wales.

The ambition to create a single integrated pathway for the care of mothers and babies is a positive principle. This isn’t the first time we've seen this. We've seen it in a lot of other disciplines across the NHS in Wales. However, this must be supported by proper investment and robust oversight, and genuine collaboration with the women and families to ensure that those services meet their needs. The voices of those with lived experience, particularly those who’ve suffered due to failings of the system, must be central to any service improvement. So, I'd like to know how the voices of those people with lived experiences have shaped this overall strategy, because I think, if we're going to see these quality statements coming forward, the voices of people with lived experienced have to be paramount throughout. It's all well and good civil servants writing them with the system, but, as I’ve said, lived experience does always add that much more weight to these statements.

The publication of 'The All-Wales Perinatal Engagement Framework', as I've said, is a welcome step, but it must lead to tangible change. Engagement exercises must result in real improvements. They can't just be tick-box exercises. And we can't just have consultation and consultation, can we? Things have to see action. So, I'd like to know what the follow-up to those things is going to be. And whilst this quality statement acknowledges the challenges facing maternity and neonatal services across Wales, as I've said, we must move beyond these statements all the time. We see statements, we see strategies, but we don't see improvements. So, let's hope this does deliver some improvements, Minister, but in the short time that I've been in this Chamber, I've seen more statements and strategies come out of the NHS than I could count on one hand, and I'll be honest, they don't seem to be delivering on the ground. So, I'd be very interested to hear from you, or perhaps you could write to me, about how these things are going to be monitored properly, because without monitoring and ensuring that health boards deliver, these statements are absolutely worthless. Diolch. 

Thank you very much, James Evans, and for, on the whole, welcoming the goal and the ethos of this quality statement and strategy that's been set out.

In terms of what's happening now, I do want to reassure you that we do have a tremendous amount of good work happening on the ground. I would like to point to, for example, that in the Cardiff and Vale health board, we have a transitional care unit, where there are 16 beds for mothers and babies needing in-patient postnatal midwifery and neonatal care. We also have the maternity psychology-led bereavement service, which I've had the pleasure of meeting, which is the first Welsh NHS psychology-led bereavement service for those who experience the death of a baby. And we also have the Cardiff and Vale health inclusion service, which does health screening for asylum seekers. So, there's already a tremendous amount of good work, and I'd like to start there.

In terms of setting the standards and who will be overseeing that, of course, in Wales, as you know, in Welsh Government we set out what we expect, and the NHS Wales Executive then are key to ensuring that delivery. In terms of the point that you pointed to of the seven key priority areas, number four is about the workforce, so that will also be overseen by HEIW. But I want to assure you that this is a very serious, very considered, with lots of engagement, very evidence-led piece of work that is being put out there, and it will absolutely be expected and required for every single health board to have a plan in place to be able to deliver this, and also to be able to have the workforce to go along with it.

You talked then about the transparency and accountability that is needed. That was what was coming through to us in the engagement. There was just so much variation in the services across Wales, but not only that, there was variation in how people were able to feed back into the system. So, we've created, really, here, a whole new system of being able to gather that information, so that every single family is going to be heard. I'm often asked in this Chamber, as are many Welsh Government Ministers, as we should be, to have plans and strategies and delivery strategies that have measures in them, that have targets and measures in them. This will absolutely have that, because the beauty of it is that we've done so much engagement on this work that we've actually set very clear targets and outcomes, and now that you have those outcomes, that is what people will be measured on. And it is very, very high quality that we are expecting from the NHS.

In terms of the questions that you had about digital, obviously this is something that's very close to my heart. The maternity app is now going to be rolled out across all health boards, across all of Wales, by early next year. I understand what you're saying about workforce and digital, but it's certainly not an either/or. If anything, the workforce are crying out to have more of this digital support. So, for example, with the maternity app, I was thrilled to see that the Royal College of Midwives has welcomed it, and I'm really looking forward to it being rolled out everywhere, because it very much comes back to the ethos that we've had in the women's health plan, which is that it's about educating, it's about empowering, it's about people having that ability to advocate for themselves and to hold the system to account. And that's actually exactly what I see this as being able to do, because women will be able to see their appointments and they'll be able to engage with their midwives so much more easily. So, I really think this is a huge step forward, and the workforce are thrilled with it.

Coming on to the workforce, and looking at how we're going to make sure that—. As we know, midwives and neonatal staff are going to be central to delivering this care, so, as I mentioned, Health Education and Improvement Wales are working with NHS Wales and key stakeholders to deliver that multidisciplinary perinatal workforce plan. The plan will encompass the training, recruiting and retaining of healthcare professionals, which will ensure that NHS Wales has the right perinatal workforce in place, now and for future maternity and neonatal service provision. It also relates to what you were asking in terms of the funding. So, we are making a record investment in education and training for the NHS workforce of £294 million in 2025-26, and since 2017, midwifery training places have increased by 67 per cent across Wales.

I also wanted to mention what you picked up on about the choice, which has been something that has been really key in coming through from a lot of expectant mothers, about wanting to have that choice about whether they give birth at home, whether they give birth midwife-led, or whether they choose to give birth in a hospital, and, ideally, everybody would be able to have that choice and that's what would happen. We are aware though that in Powys, for example, you wouldn't be able to have a choice of consultant-led in your locality, so that's why we've built in now that requirement that every single woman should have that option, even if that means going outside of her health board locality and area. It's absolutely crucial that there is that equality and that consistency all across Wales.

And then, I just wanted to touch on what you asked about the engagement. It's something that you and I have in common, James, that we very much value the lived experience. I hear from a lot of professionals, royal college professionals in Wales, that they really feel that out of all the nations in the UK, Wales does this best. We have this kind of—. Maybe it's because of our size, maybe it's because we have that ability to do it. People feel very close to the Senedd, to Welsh Government, and that's always coming through in everything that we're doing. So, I just want to reassure you that we did undertake an extensive engagement with a broad cross-section of maternity and neonatal service leadership, to convey our intention to produce this quality statement, and also there was a draft list of quality attributes that was developed, based on the insights that came through in all of the reviews that have led up to this. It's really been guided by people with lived experience. And this is what women want: they want to feel reassured that they're going to have a choice of where they give birth, they're going to receive the absolute highest quality care from a multidisciplinary team that is not stretched too thin, and is going to be there at a time that is one of the most amazing times in their lives, but also a time when you can feel extremely vulnerable.

So, in a way, I hesitate to say this sometimes, but this is quite groundbreaking that we're doing this in Wales. I feel like we're very much facing up; we're not sweeping this under the carpet, that what has gone before has not been good enough for some, and we are going to really now ensure that every single health board is providing what we have set out today. Diolch.

I welcome the introduction of this quality statement to establish standards and clear expectations in terms of maternity and neonatal services in Wales. To be honest, it's about time, particularly in light of the serious failings noted in Singleton Hospital at the end of 2023.

Childbirth is full of risk at best, so it stands to reason that care standards and resources should reflect this. This is particularly important when we consider the demographic trends over the past decade. The majority of women giving birth in Wales are now over 30 years of age and the older age profile in giving birth usually requires higher levels of support from staff. Recent years have also seen an increase in the proportion of women reporting a mental health condition in their initial assessment, which in turn has a significant impact in terms of staff expertise and capacity.

And although I have nothing but admiration for the committed midwives of Wales, who deliver their duties diligently and professionally, I am concerned about the resilience of the workforce in managing this additional demand in a sustainable way. For example, since December 2023, the levels of full-time midwives in Wales have been falling. Applications for midwifery courses in Wales have also reduced by over 35 per cent since 2021, which is higher than the UK average. I would therefore be grateful if the Minister could confirm whether all health boards in Wales are meeting the safe staffing levels recommended for midwifery, as set out in the Birthrate Plus workforce tool, and whether the Welsh Government has carried out an assessment of how the workforce will need to adapt to meet the demographic trends that I mentioned earlier.

Turning to the issue of neonatal care, you will be aware that the recent 'Saving Babies' Lives' report, by the Sands and Tommy's policy unit, has found that Wales is lagging behind in this area. Wales has had the highest stillbirth rate in the UK since 2014, and while both England and Scotland experienced a decline in neonatal mortality rates between 2010 and 2022, they increased in Wales over this period. We've often spoken about the importance of having clear targets as a focus for effective policy delivery, but whereas NHS England has a target to halve rates of stillbirth, neonatal death, pre-term birth, maternal death and brain injury by 2025 relative to 2010 levels, no such target currently exists here in Wales. So, in light of this quality statement, is the Welsh Government considering the introduction of specific targets to reduce rates of stillbirth and neonatal mortality?

That the quality of neonatal provision is not where it should be is also illustrated by the fact that Welsh neonatal networks don't currently meet four of the five key metrics used by the neonatal audit programme. Could you confirm whether the Welsh Government has engaged with the national neonatal audit programme to assess how the necessary improvements may be made and whether you can give a timescale for meeting these metrics?

Finally, I'd like to revisit the issue of Singleton Hospital, which underlines why setting these standards is of the utmost importance. The trauma that the likes of Kate Barrett, Nathalie Borland, Mr and Mrs Channon and several others experienced as a result of serious failings in the quality of care at the hospital's birthing unit is something that no new parent should ever have to endure. It is truly unforgivable that their pain has since been compounded by a complete lack of engagement on the part of the health board during the independent inquiry, to the extent that they have undertaken their own inquiry. It's a damning indictment of the shortcomings of the review and investigation mechanisms that these families felt that they had no option but to take matters into their own hands. So, in the interest of demonstrating in deeds as well as words that this quality statement will give due regard to the voice of parents, will you commit to implementing the recommendations of the family-led inquiry? Diolch.

Thank you so much, Mabon ap Gwynfor, for that and for welcoming the quality statement on the whole. I think that we all know that it is very needed, and a tremendous amount of work has gone into it, and I do feel that the standards that we're requiring and setting in this are what women need and expect to feel safe when they're giving birth, wherever they choose to give birth. I also hear you on these concerns that women have. I have many friends who have given birth and are going to be having children as well, and I was listening to something the other day on a podcast that said that we seem to be in a mindset at the moment where it's almost expected that something will go wrong, and it's almost rare and special if you have what's considered a good birth. Actually, it should totally be the other way around. You should feel as though, on the whole, you're going to have the best experience, you're going to feel safe, you're going to feel cared for, you're going to have the best quality medical care if you require it, and that those cases should be the outliers. They should be the ones that very, very rarely happen. That's what we want to be seeing, and it is happening in many places as well, but I also want women to really feel that, and I hope that that's what's going to come through in this quality statement today from Welsh Government, that we're very, very aware of those anxieties, and we're really now going to, as people always tell us to, grasp that nettle to really do something about it.

So, I totally agree with what you were saying about mental health, of course, perinatal mental health—the mental health of women giving birth is absolutely crucial. One of the best teams I've had the chance to meet so far is actually in Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board. I met the team up there who do a lot of the pre-talks with the mams before they give birth, they go through things like their triggers, they go through the things that might be sensitive, where they might feel particularly vulnerable. What they're finding is, by doing that pre chat, it's making a huge difference and women feel much more safe and in control when they're going in to give birth, and that's something that we want to see for everybody.

I also want to say that they will always have access to mental health support as well, and that's not only for mothers, but that's also for the fathers as well. So, you've been hearing Mark Williams, who is a friend of mine, who has been really championing the support that dads also need to have to be able to support in their family, and also the support that you mentioned of the staff themselves. So, I went and met with the maternity team who are at Cardiff and Vale University Health Board, and I was saying to them, 'What do you do, though?', because, obviously, there are times when there is a loss of a baby and that will impact them too, and they said that there's a free helpline that they have that's paid for by Welsh Government for all health staff and social care staff as well. I was like, 'Is that actually helpful? Is that something that we should keep investing in?' And they were like, 'One hundred per cent.' They thought it was absolutely tremendous. So, again, hearing that directly from them was amazing, and that's available to all. And maybe that's something that we need to push a little bit more.

In terms of the report that you mentioned and where we are currently, I will ask the Cabinet Secretary to write to you on that, but also there is absolutely the expectation that the health board and the NHS will diligently work together to deliver on everything that we've set out in this quality statement. They are required to develop a perinatal quality surveillance dashboard as well, with key standardised metrics that inform both network-level and national oversight, which, in turn, will inform that policy direction. So, I hope that that answers your question as well about what we will potentially be measuring in the future. I think this quality statement is quite detailed in the seven priority areas and the 10 commitments that we're looking for, but also, then, as we start to gather more information and more of this data to go with the perinatal quality surveillance dashboard, I think that we will start seeing those targets being set in place. It wouldn't be for me to set them in place, but they will be set in place.

I also wanted to come to your question about Singleton and Swansea bay, and a question that we get asked a lot: how are we ensuring that the failings aren't replicated again? Because they were failings, and my heart goes out to every single family, and I thank them for their bravery, really, in reliving to make sure that it doesn't happen again. I wanted to say that maternity and neonatal services at the health board were escalated, as you know, to level 3, enhanced monitoring, in December 2022, and they are being supported to make the necessary improvements by Welsh Government and the NHS executive. Good progress is being made, as highlighted in the reopening of Neath Port Talbot Hospital Birth Centre, and the home birth centre as well, in October of last year. Babies are now being born again in Port Talbot, as they should be—sorry, they were always being born in Port Talbot, but now they're being born in Port Talbot in the birth centre, to clarify.

In November 2023, of course, Swansea bay commissioned an external review, which I think is imperative, of maternity and neonatal services to provide the assurance to the health board and the reassurance to the families in respect of services delivered and to identify opportunities for service improvement. The board also agreed to the establishment of an oversight panel reporting directly to the board, and the review will examine the safety and effectiveness of the current service. The latest update that I can give you is that the health board provided an update on progress to their board in January 2025, last month, and the update received from the health board in January 2025 indicated that the review is on track to complete this summer.

So, I hope that was all the questions you asked me. If not, I'm—. Oh, Tommy's—sorry, we talked about Tommy's and Sands and I did want to answer on this one, because, again, this is my area and I work quite closely with Sands. I did read through the annual report that they set out for last year, for 2024. I always welcome having these reports and I also always welcome having reports based on the UK as well. I think they're a really good opportunity for us to really face the reality and to hold ourselves to account. What I would say is that I thought it was very interesting that they made the point that it's not just about the funding, which, of course, they were absolutely calling for—that we always have that increase in funding to go along with inflation. But they also said that it's not just about the funding, it's also about having the national care levels, those standards, those national standards of care—that's what they were calling for, that's what this is. So, I hope that they see this and that they're able to see that we are listening and we're not shying away from this—we're being accountable and transparent. And we've set out a quality statement now, where we expect all of our health boards to be accountable and transparent and to reach these high standards that we have set. Diolch.

As you said in your statement, the birth rate has fallen, but evidence shows that, increasingly, pregnancy is becoming more complex. Having a baby can be one of the most exciting, daunting, thrilling and worrying times, and the right care and support is so important, both for physical and mental well-being.

I'd like to raise with you the benefits of an infant feeding programme in Wrexham Maelor Hospital. It's a pilot initiative—it was raised by a constituent, Lisa, who had a baby six weeks early, by caesarean section. The reflexes of a baby aren't always fully developed then, and so the baby had to be fed by a tube. But this infant feeding programme, this pilot, helped her to go on to breastfeed the baby. She said that, without that, she might not have been successful. It helped her so much. It also helped with her mental health as well, to connect with the baby. So, she’s hoping that—. She wanted me to raise this with you, in the hope that it’s a pilot that you might look at continuing, going forward. She found it so helpful. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Carolyn Thomas, for that question, and for being able to hear from your constituent, who, despite what must have been a very worrying period of time, got the support that she needed and she was actually in the right place to be able to benefit from this pilot. In Wales and the Welsh Government, we do promote breastfeeding and the benefits of it, for those who can and those who want to. It sounds like she wanted to and that she was supported to be able to do that.

So, I will certainly go away and myself or the Cabinet Secretary will look into that and have a look at that pilot scheme and see what we can do. But please thank her very much for having her experience shared in the Senedd today and also for saying how she thinks that would be so helpful to other mums. So, thank you very much. Diolch yn fawr.

It is vital that mothers' mental health before, during and after childbirth has a central part in any scheme that talks about the quality of a service. Are you confident that this plan does place an adequate focus on mental health?

According to the statistics on maternity and childbirth that were updated in the summer of last year, 32 per cent of pregnant women reported that they had a mental health condition. This is an increase of 12 per cent since 2016, when these data started to be collected. This percentage doesn't include data from two health boards—Cwm Taf Morgannwg and Betsi Cadwaladr. The reason given for this is that the data aren't dependable. I'm quoting from the report:

'mental health data recorded in these two health boards is of low reliability'.

Do you believe that that is acceptable? It is shocking to me, bearing in mind that deficient decisions by Betsi Cadwaladr and the Government were made, and now we are discovering that there aren't dependable data held by that health board with regard to mothers' perinatal mental health.

This includes, of course, the decision to commission two beds in a hospital in England for women from north Wales facing mental health crises, and their babies, rather than creating new provision in Wales. Two beds only, in a hospital where the right to speak Welsh will not be honoured, in a location that is very far away from loved ones for a number of families. And now, I discover—

Siân, please conclude.

Yes, moving on. I am discovering that there aren't dependable or reliable data available. You promised to review this decision. When will the results of that review be available, and will you then be reviewing the decision to create provision in the unit at the Countess of Chester rather than in north Wales?

Thank you very much, Siân Gwenllian, and I always appreciate how you always focus on the mental health of mums and perinatal health, especially in north Wales. You are very passionate about this, and I've always welcomed your questions and your insight into this. So, thank you.

What I would say is, when it comes to a lack of data, no, it's not good enough, and we are going to change it. It's interesting that it's with Betsi Cadwaladr and it's with Cwm Taf Morgannwg. Those are both of the health boards that, since I've come into post, have received that additional funding to now lead on the electronic mental health records. So, Betsi is going first; I've met with the team. They're doing very well on that, and they're pushing forward with that. And then Cwm Taf Morgannwg will be working alongside them to do that as well, as quickly as possible. We recognised that there was a real urgency to this, and so I should be able to give an update on where they are as soon as possible. But really good progress is being made in this area.

When it comes, then, to the mother and baby unit access for north Wales, as we've discussed previously, a decision was made that there were going to be two beds commissioned in the Countess of Chester Hospital at their brand-new mother and baby unit. Since talking to you, after I came into post, and you raised concerns with me and said, 'How do we know that's going to be enough beds, and why can't we have it in north Wales ourselves? Why can't we build our own mother and baby unit ourselves?', I went back to the joint commissioning committee and I insisted, and they agreed to do another extremely thorough full review, so that I can see all of their findings before we make a decision for the future. So, as you know, that's going to be coming towards the end of February, and I hope to be able to share that then as soon as possible. I want to reassure you that, as I've said before, I met with the team up there when I went to visit them, and they said to me that, in 2024, there were periods where there were no beds needed, and then there were periods where there were a few beds needed. [Interruption.] I know—exactly, but that's anecdotal, and I'm not happy with just having anecdotal. And, as you've asked me before, and as I agree with you, how do we know that there weren't women out there who would have benefited from it? So, in this review that the Royal College of Psychiatrists is also helping with, and the joint commissioning committee is doing, they're going to be talking to women as well, as they're going to be going out and doing face-to-face interviews, because I want to be absolutely reassured of the need for the service.

However, what I would say is that the Countess of Chester's mother and baby unit is going to be open imminently, and for women in north Wales who need those beds, and can't and don't want to visit Tonna, which I completely understand, the likelihood is that we will go ahead and commission those beds, because even if the decision was taken that we would build our own mother and baby unit in north Wales, that will take time and the beds are needed now. So, as I said, I am very, very happy to meet with you, as soon as we have that review, to discuss what is going to happen, going forward, but, in the meantime, I believe that we will be commissioning the beds in the Countess of Chester so that we have that availability for women in north Wales, if and when they need them. Diolch.

And finally, Jenny Rathbone.

Thank you very much. I think a very important point is about the need for midwives to be spending long enough with women to know what their needs are, so I hope the birth rate falling isn’t an excuse for health boards to cut the numbers of midwives—because of the woman and her family.

Having a baby is a marathon not a sprint, and those who choose medical interventions, like induction and caesarean, in order to keep a social engagement, need to trust their midwife on the consequences of that choice, and then don’t trust their midwives when the midwives aren’t spending long enough with them. Therefore, we do need to ensure that they’re building up a relationship, a continuity of care. That is what guarantees the spontaneous vaginal deliveries that we all want to see in all circumstances where possible.

There’s no mention in your statement of the cheapest and most nutritious food of all, which is breastfeeding, although it has been raised in relation to an excellent intervention at Betsi Cadwaladr to ensure that mum can breastfeed after the baby’s had to be in an incubator of some sort. Of course, it relies on mum being fed nourishing food, and I want to commend Lynne Neagle for her brilliant work when she was in your post of raising the uptake of the Healthy Start vouchers, which is key to that. So, I wondered if you could tell us what the current breastfeeding rates are at six weeks and six months, and what improvements you expect to see in the context of so many people in our society being overweight and obese. This is definitely the quickest way to prevent that.

Thank you so much, Jenny Rathbone. I was very much hoping that you would ask me a question today, because you do always celebrate the importance of women having choice, and also the importance of breastfeeding for those who want to and can. I wanted to say that we have had calls for more support for mothers who breastfeed, and so supporting families is a key part of our breastfeeding action plan, which is co-ordinated by breastfeeding leads in every health board, and these clinicians form part of the Welsh infant feeding network, supported by Public Health Wales to monitor current services, identify issues and share best practice. We are also pleased—and this is the latest data that I have—to report the breastfeeding rates in 2023 were the highest on record across all ages of the child, continuing longer term trends of increasing breastfeeding rates. As I said at the end of my statement, which my colleague Dawn Bowden leads on, we know that those first 1,000 days are absolutely crucial, and that's actually from the conception to age two, and it's vitally important, and it's for their future, and for the future of the adult they will become as well, not just the children. The Welsh Government is committed to improving outcomes for children and young people to give them the best start in life. We have a range of supporting programmes, which include the Healthy Child Wales programme, 'Parenting. Give it Time', oral health education and mental health support in schools. So, it's all-encompassing there.

I also wanted to say that you are absolutely right that it's so important that mums-to-be have that time with somebody to work through those questions that they have, which I've already said is a key component of checking and planning your birth plan, understanding that things may change, and what will happen if they do as well. You may choose to give birth at home and then change your mind, knowing that that's absolutely fine and that things are going to happen. And I've said this before in the Chamber, I think that what I've learned from Mothers Matter, based in Tonypandy, is that it's not just the birth plan, it's also the recovery plan that's really important for mums, and that may include, like you said, the breastfeeding.

I also wanted to say that there are consultant midwives in every health board who provide support through debriefing as well after a birth, and that helps with birth choices in subsequent pregnancies and establishing an individualised care and birth plan with the mother when they go on to have more children, which I think relates to what you were saying about the declining birth rate. Some people have one and decide to stop, and sometimes that's because they didn't have a great experience or feel very in control of the situation, and I think that having that consultant midwife to have a chat with them actually goes a really, really long way. I've also seen that in the Cardiff and Vale project where mums who have lost a baby have that real psychological support then, so that they can go on and have another baby and be able to manage those anxieties that they would understandably have.

And then, yes, when it comes to obesity, this is something that is coming through very strongly in a lot of the research. It is having an impact on the mum and the baby, of course, so this would also come under the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, and under the work that we're doing for 'A Healthier Wales' and obesity in general, really, across Wales. I know that you have a debate tomorrow with the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary on this, so I look forward to hearing that, as I will be here in the Chamber to enjoy it, and it's all interlinked. So, diolch yn fawr.

I thank the Minister.

Item 7 on our agenda is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice and Trefnydd: nation of sanctuary. I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Jane Hutt.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. The Welsh Government has a vision of Wales as a nation of sanctuary.

Our vision seeks to ensure sanctuary seekers have access to advice services, information about rights and responsibilities, and the tools needed to fully contribute to Welsh life. We're committed to this vision, and committed to harnessing the opportunities that migration brings to help our economy and communities to thrive.

In November last year, the refreshed 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan' was published. The plan is made up of several chapters, one of which is the updated nation of sanctuary chapter, and this chapter replaces our previous nation of sanctuary plan and other previous commitments, and I want to thank all partners for their efforts in supporting this. To explain the chapter, and also in light of the ongoing divisive rhetoric we have seen, it is important that I make a statement to signal our unwavering ambition to become a nation of sanctuary. Doing so will benefit all of us in the long run.

The nation of sanctuary is, and has always been, a shared team Wales approach, which ensures we work closely and collaborate with our partners. With the crucial support of many partners, we will continue to make the progress we want to see. What unites us is a common desire to improve the way we do things, so that sanctuary seekers are supported effectively and Welsh communities feel the benefits of migration. We are refocusing commitments over the next couple of years and introducing 10 principles to help to communicate what the nation of sanctuary means.

Our nation of sanctuary approach means helping people to feel welcome by helping them access services and begin to integrate with host communities. We will ensure everyone is treated with respect and given the chance to contribute and succeed. This will help us to prevent harmful outcomes. We collaborate with those directly affected by our decisions, including with all public authorities, as team Wales. We look for long-term, integrated solutions to challenges. We aim to foster good relations between groups and build community cohesion, including by ensuring equality of opportunities for anyone needing support in Wales. Finally, we take a proactive approach within our powers to ensure the well-being of those living in Wales and to be a globally responsible Wales. These are the principles that will continue to guide our work.

We have a strong ethos of supporting sanctuary seekers in Wales. In recent weeks, some of our support organisations, and the concept of providing sanctuary itself, have been targeted. We stand in solidarity with organisations targeted by misinformation and abuse. Today is also Safer Internet Day, and we encourage everyone to stop and think before they share potentially damaging information online.

Our focus is the practical delivery of this ambition. Since new UK Labour Ministers have been in post, our inter-governmental engagement has increased significantly. I am now meeting regularly with counterparts at the Home Office and Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government. This is enabling us to articulate the improvements that can be made to UK Labour Government schemes in Wales. Despite misinformation to the contrary, we can only control decisions within devolved competence. However, we are working with the new UK Government to try to ensure the immigration system works for Wales. I'm pleased to see the start of the 56-day asylum move-on pilot, which extends the critical period newly granted refugees have to transition from asylum accommodation to mainstream housing and support services. This will help to prevent homelessness and improve integration.

We're working with the UK Government to explore opportunities for the future of the asylum system. We've seen the positive role that local authorities and the Welsh Government can play through the Homes for Ukraine scheme, the Afghan resettlement programme and the global resettlement scheme. We are considering ways we can apply this learning to have a more effective team Wales approach in future.

Llywydd, since Putin's full-scale invasion of Ukraine on 24 February three years ago, almost 8,000 Ukrainians have found refuge in the UK thanks to Welsh sponsors. All local authorities, thousands of Welsh households and many third sector partners continue to provide amazing support. The UK Government began accepting Ukraine permission extension visa applications earlier this month. This allows those on any of the Ukraine schemes to apply to extend their stay in the UK for an additional 18 months. UK Ministers have also recently confirmed that Ukrainians will be able to continue using their existing driving licences on UK roads.

The UK Government will continue to provide host 'thank you' payments in 2025-26, and this will also apply for hosts of Ukraine permission extension visa holders, where their guest was initially on a Homes for Ukraine visa. I understand that this widening of eligible beneficiaries will be made possible by reverting to the £350 per month 'thank you' payment from 1 April. I'm pleased to confirm that the Welsh Government will continue to top up the UK Government 'thank you' payment to £500 per month to individuals hosting guests during their first year of arrival in the UK. We hope our top-up will encourage more hosts to come forward to offer much needed placements to new arrivals.

The UK Prime Minister and President Zelenskyy signed a historic 100-year partnership in January, aimed at deepening security ties and strengthening the relationship between the UK and Ukraine for future generations. I am pleased to say the Welsh Government was consulted over the proposed text, and we are proud to continue to stand in solidarity with Ukrainians.

We are continuing to implement our migrant integration framework for Wales, which was published in December 2023. In 2024, we laid the groundwork for a data mapping blueprint, and this year our focus will be on transforming how we capture migrant experiences and establishing a data baseline. Our no recourse to public funds guidance assists public sector bodies and third sector organisations to support people with no recourse to public funds. New training is ongoing for local authority teams, and we are seeking feedback from local government and charities to improve our no recourse to public funds guidance. And we continue to work on access to transport, following up the welcome ticket.

In the draft 2025-26 budget, I've also been able to allocate funds to continue and expand the work of our refugee move-on project and the Wales sanctuary service. Both projects will be able to provide in-person support throughout Wales. We remain supportive of a community-based asylum dispersal model, as this provides the greatest potential for integration and building community. We expect Wales to support a proportionate share of the UK asylum population. Llywydd, we are committed to working with the UK Government, Welsh local authorities, the third sector and others to support this dispersal in a carefully managed and effective way.

Thank you for your statement, Cabinet Secretary. I'm sure everyone in this Chamber will agree that we should be a nation of sanctuary for those seeking refuge. As you noted in your statement, Wales welcomes with open arms those fleeing Putin's despotic war in Ukraine, as well as welcoming those who supported NATO's forces in Afghanistan. We should always welcome refugees and do everything we can to make them feel at home and valued members of our communities. I welcome the extension of the Ukraine permission visa for a further 18 months. We can only hope and pray that the illegal invasion of Ukraine will be over by then, and those that wish to can return home.

Cabinet Secretary, if you are to provide a welcoming home for refugees, we must ensure that we have homes for them and everyone else who needs one. How do you respond to Housing Justice Cymru, who state that the housing crisis threatens to derail efforts to become a nation of sanctuary? Do you agree with Housing Justice Cymru that becoming a nation of sanctuary and tackling homelessness are intertwined, that we can't achieve either without action on both? Other nations, such as the Republic of Ireland, have rolled out fast-building modular housing in order to quickly scale up the level of housing. Will you commit the Welsh Government to adopting such a scheme, so we can respond to future refugee crises, as well as offering more permanent quality housing to those who have already sought refuge on our shores?

Finally, Cabinet Secretary, the UK Government yesterday undertook a massive crackdown on illegal migration, with raids on premises including nail bars, carwashes and restaurants across the country. Do you welcome the direction taken by the UK Government? And do you agree that, in order for the Welsh public to embrace your vision of a nation of sanctuary, we have to show that welcoming refugees does not mean open borders? Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch yn fawr, and thank you very much for your questions and, indeed, for your support, particularly as you reference the support for our supersponsor scheme for Ukrainians, which I've spoken and accounted for on many occasions in this Chamber, and also to support all those communities and hosts who have supported directly Ukrainians who've come to Wales, who've found refuge in Wales, and also to thank all the local authorities, as I said, and third sector organisations. This is very much a team Wales approach to ensuring that we can support those in those circumstances. And it is very interesting that we have been welcoming Afghan refugees and supporting Afghan refugees, and the fact is that so many of those—and I know, because we've been supporting them in my constituency—were actually supporting the armed forces. They were interpreters, they were security, they were drivers, and, of course, they had to flee from the Taliban, and many of them have been in third countries for a long time before being able to come through on the latest Afghan resettlement scheme, which actually was started by the previous Government in terms of resettlement. I think what's been really helpful in terms of the new Afghan resettlement scheme is it does actually bring together all the schemes that have been helping Afghan citizens resettle and relocate, and supporting those. 

Just interestingly in terms of data, Wales had supported 693 Afghans, 7,855 Ukrainians—this was at 2024—and was home to 3,441 asylum seekers. We are playing our part as a nation of sanctuary.

You do raise a really important issue in relation to housing and homelessness. I did say that I have been pressing for some time and with the previous Government about needing to have that fixed 56-day move-on pilot, and we very much welcome the UK Government's decision to pilot this 56-day refugee move-on period, because it's an important measure to try and prevent homelessness and destitution at the very point sanctuary seekers need protection, and that's been now recognised by the UK Government. So, I thank the UK Minister for Border Security and Asylum for this pilot. We hope it will become a permanent measure beyond June next year.

But also, just to say, in terms of tackling homelessness, and I do recognise the work of Housing Justice Cymru, who we support as a third sector partner, that we have, of course—. I've mentioned the increase in funding for the refugee move-on service; it provides support to newly recognised refugees to find alternative accommodation, register with banking and other services within 56 days after the Home Office has granted refugee status. What was very important last year was that we developed, and that was through the former Minister for climate change and housing, the transitional accommodation capital programme, which has been funding much of the new—and some of it's modular—accommodation to support not only refugees but also to help meet Welsh housing need. Clearly, that has made a huge difference in many constituencies across Wales. You will be aware of the funding that has been made available to local authorities to make sure that we have that transitional accommodation. Just to give you some brief idea of what that actually means, I'm sure that you're aware that it's £87.2 million of grant funding committed last year for the transitional programme, and, for this financial year, an indicative value of £100 million, and that enables local authorities to have that extra investment in housing.

It is very important also that we look at our responsibilities and engage with where we have responsibility in terms of a vision for being a nation of sanctuary, and indeed where the UK Government has responsibility. That's why we're currently reviewing the new Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill to see what its impact would be on Wales and devolved matters. Most of the provisions of the Bill appear to relate to reserved matters, which don't relate directly to Wales, but we will engage as this develops in terms of the policy coming forward.

Wales's aim of being a nation of sanctuary is more important than ever.

I want to read you the words of the chief executive of the Refugee Council, who has criticised the UK Labour Government for the approach it's taken this week in releasing pictures and footage of immigration raids and deportations. He said: 

'It was not long ago that hate-filled mobs attempted to burn refugees alive in a hotel. Communities are still healing from the appalling violence last summer, so the government should not risk driving up mistrust by using performative tactics that play into negative and dangerous narratives about immigration. The public want a system that is orderly and controlled but also compassionate. That includes returning people without a right to be in the UK, but doing so in a dignified way instead of melodramatic television footage that will not build trust in government.'

The nation of sanctuary plan states that we in Wales must recognise these are people first and foremost, that we take a person-centred, human-rights approach,

'and though their immigration status does confer important rights and obligations, it should not be considered more important than ensuring individual well-being and protection is secured.'

So, did the Welsh Government have conversations with the UK Labour Government around the potential impact of this approach on the aims of the nation of sanctuary plan and community cohesion? Do you agree with the Refugee Council that this approach risks playing into dangerous and negative narratives?

We mustn’t stand by either while the far right floods social media with dangerous misinformation—often amplified by the likes of Elon Musk and, shockingly, even a Conservative Member of this Senedd—in an attempt to stir up hate, racism and create divisions in our communities. Organisations like the Welsh Refugee Council do crucial work supporting sanctuary seekers, building understanding and promoting inclusion in our communities. But, recently, they became a target of this whipped-up hate. So, how is the Welsh Government ensuring the safety of those third sector organisations that support work central to the nation of sanctuary plan and also, of course, those that they support?

I also want to address the UK Government's Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill 2025, which is currently on its way through Parliament. While we welcome the repeal of the Rwanda plan, and we agree that we must see drastic improvements in the way the asylum system is run and bring those who prey on the desperation of others to justice, we must listen to the warnings of Refugee Action and others that the Bill will irreparably harm refugees by treating migration as a national security threat. The Refugee Council have said they are very concerned that, by creating new offences, many refugees themselves could also be prosecuted, which would be a gross miscarriage of justice. They reiterate the position of many human rights campaigners that the most effective way to break the smuggling gangs' grip is to stop refugees from having to get into boats in the first place, which means giving them a safe and legal way to apply for asylum in the UK. So, can you tell us what specific conversations—? You say that you've been having conversations about this, but you say, worryingly, that a lot of this doesn't relate directly to the nation of sanctuary plan. I would disagree there, because I think it does impact the aims of the nation of sanctuary plan, and I'd like to have a little bit more detail from you on that, please.

Just to turn to the mention you made of the Ukrainian refugee schemes, I welcome the £500 top-up brought in, because, at the time, if I remember rightly, the UK Government were cutting it and changing the way that that was going to be paid. You expressed dissatisfaction with the UK Government for doing that at the time, and stepped in. Now we have a change of Government, why—and you're saying you're directly and positively engaging with UK Ministers—isn't the UK Government doing that? Why do we still have to step in and top up that welcome payment?

Also, of course, it was disappointing last year when the Welsh Government abruptly cut the welcome ticket scheme that gave access to free or low-cost public transport, which, of course, is a lifeline to those seeking sanctuary. You have given us assurances it's going to be reintroduced. We haven't, still, heard when. So, could you provide detail when? Because we're now coming up to a year since it was scrapped.

And finally, I would like an update about the crisis as regards access to justice in Wales. The Bevan Foundation has highlighted only five immigration legal aid providers remain in Wales, operating six offices between them. Sixty per cent of immigration legal aid offices in Wales have closed in just over five years, and the greatest demand for immigration legal services falls outside the scope of legal aid. Failure to access justice at the right time, of course, can result in a loss of rights, employment, housing, immigration status and, ultimately, can lead to destitution or deportation. So, what conversations have you had with the Labour UK Government to help ensure that those seeking sanctuary in Wales can access the legal support they need and as promised as one of the actions in the refreshed plan? Diolch.

Diolch, Sioned Williams. Thank you for your questions and continuing—. I take it for granted; I know that you and your party support our vision for the nation of sanctuary. And as you say, this is about how we, in Wales, with our responsibilities and our powers, take that person-centred, human rights approach, and I take responsibility on behalf of the Welsh Government for the action and policies that I've outlined in my statement, and of course these are very much cross-Government responsibilities in relation to health, social care, housing, and I've already responded to those points earlier, to the earlier question.

And I think it is important to hold us to account on what we can do in Wales. We have got 33 actions in the new chapter in the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan'. We want to concentrate on effective delivery on the most pressing issues for the remainder of this Senedd term. We want to prioritise support for those most vulnerable to harmful outcomes, and we do want to work closely and influence the new UK Government to improve the operation of asylum and resettlement schemes in Wales. That's my focus. That's my focus with local government. And I've got a meeting tomorrow, co-chairing with Councillor Mary Ann Brocklesby, a nation of sanctuary strategic oversight board. We have invited UK Government Ministers to that board, and I hope they will attend in the future.

Our Wales sanctuary service is where we can make the support and the outreach to our refugees and sanctuary seekers, continuing, as I said, to provide vital advice and services to sanctuary seekers, including your important point about the specialist legal services. We fund through the Wales sanctuary service specialist legal services and services for young people. But I raise these issues in terms of the dearth of specialist legal advice and access to legal aid. And I have raised these with previous UK Governments and this UK Government as well.

I think it is important that I do put on record today that we are funding the seeking sanctuary grant partnership. We support those hosted placements for those refused asylum in Welsh communities, so that they can access shelter, stability and legal advice. So many have fled war and persecution. And we provide impartial legal advice to help those who are considering their asylum appeals, fresh asylum appeals, or engaging with Home Office voluntary return processes. So, it is about our nation of sanctuary approach, which I hope you will recognise and respect, but also obviously challenge in terms of implementation.

It is so important that we also work with groups supporting minority communities, to reassure citizens and combat misinformation. I have referred to it in my statement, and you've referred to it as well. Criminal justice is reserved to the UK Government, but we work closely with our partners to ensure that counter-terrorism threats to Wales are understood and communicated appropriately. In Wales, there is no place for discrimination, hate, victimisation, harassment or abuse, and we stand opposed to all.

Now, the welcome ticket. We're very proud of what the welcome ticket scheme contributed over two years to help refugees integrate into Welsh society. We actually introduced it very quickly at the start of the outbreak of war in Ukraine. We estimate over 1 million free journeys have been provided to people seeking sanctuary from Ukraine, Afghanistan, Hong Kong—refugees from across the globe—and we're working hard to identify ways in which we can access data, which is crucial to the delivery of the scheme, in order to take this forward. We're working with key stakeholders to launch phase 2 as soon as possible. Obviously, we will update you on that point.

We are currently, as I said, reviewing the new Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill. We are assessing its impact on Wales and devolved matters. As you say, we're pleased to see the repeal of some of the most damaging aspects of the Illegal Migration Act 2023 and the repeal of the Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Act 2024. Those measures, of course, were subject to a previous legislative consent memorandum, which we proposed, and they are proposed for repeal in this new Bill. It was very welcome that Senedd Members voted to withhold consent for those clauses, so I'm sure these will be welcome, and I will, of course, engage with UK Government on the impacts of the Bill, and that is why I do welcome the increased engagement that I have.

But I am today talking about what we are doing here in Wales, and I trust that I have reassured you that this is about the approach that we need to take. Yes, we have, in Wales, we decided to uplift the 'thank you' payment. It was our decision to uplift the 'thank you' payments for the hosts of Ukrainian families across Wales. In some of the most disadvantaged communities, people were coming forward, and it was really important that we could provide that uplift to the 'thank you' payments. So, I am pleased that we are able to continue to do that into next year as well. 

Can I thank the Minister for the statement? Perhaps just to start off, I wanted to re-emphasise also the point that has been made about the lack of immigration advisers, particularly immigration solicitors, and the impact that that has on the ability to actually deliver the sorts of information and support that are necessary for those who have to engage in what is often a very complex circumstance and environment. 

Can I also, then, just go on to welcome this statement, because of the success of the nation of sanctuary and the reputation it gives to Wales? Wales has historically always welcomed refugees, going back to before the second world war, after the second world war, and you will know as well, over the 1970s and 1980s, welcoming those from South Africa, Chile, Iraq, Iran and so on, many of whom have made their homes now and are now settled within Welsh society and the Welsh economy. 

I'm very grateful, certainly, for the work that the Welsh Government has done particularly with Ukrainian, Syrian and Afghan refugees, and particularly Ukrainians, because you'll be aware of my personal interest. They are rather an unusual group of refugees, because they are mainly women and children, because they have had to separate from their husbands, many of whom are fighting on the front line. And, of course, you will be aware that there are those who have actually lost their husbands within that. So, I think that the actual success of what has been done so far is really important, but also with those other groupings, equally importantly. 

The question I want to ask about is the toxicity of the environment that we're in now. We're seeing on social media and in politics generally misinformation about refugees. We have seen it within this Senedd itself, misinformation being purported, all of which is playing into an orchestrated, I think, far-right agenda with regard to immigration, using it as a political tool, and it has created an incredibly toxic environment for politicians, for volunteers in society, and particularly for many of the vulnerable refugees that we have. I wonder if you could say what consideration you have given, what discussions you may have had with the UK Government, in terms of what Welsh Government specifically can do to counter this toxicity, to counter the misinformation, because the way that I see it, most of the refugees and people who have been coming to Wales are now valuable contributors to the Welsh economy. They are actually contributing to our well-being, and it's something that is very important now to many parts of the Welsh economy that were underemployed. But the toxicity element is the area that I'm really concerned about and the way that that is developing, Minister.

Thank you very much, Mick Antoniw, and thank you for your support—long-term support—for our vision of Wales as a nation of sanctuary, and giving us that reminder of the history of Wales as a welcoming nation for refugees and those fleeing conflict, war and persecution. And that is why we must continue to stand up for those 10 principles that I've outlined for our vision for Wales to be a nation of sanctuary. Thank you for your continuing support for Ukrainian refugees and citizens, and I also acknowledge your support, and indeed that of Alun Davies and others across the Chamber, for Ukrainians as you travel and take those all-important supplies, vehicles, medical supplies to Ukraine. And I know you're going to be shortly going on another mission as well, so we thank you and recognise you for that commitment and that courage.

It is important that we show solidarity with our refugees from wherever they come in the world; that's the most important point. I think people in Wales have offered their hearts and their homes, particularly to Ukrainians. They're very much integrating effectively into Welsh communities. I'm sure you'll be pleased about the announcement about the driving licences also being continued, because Ukrainians are now engaging in jobs, work and school education. But I think it's also been really important that Wales has shown, with our local authorities, that through our supersponsor route, we could welcome our guests into 52 what were—we visited many together, Mick—welcome centres across the whole of Wales, and then guests were supported into longer term accommodation and we continue to help, with local authorities, to support those who need accommodation. I've already mentioned the transitional accommodation capital programme; I'm very proud to see in my constituency, the Vale of Glamorgan, the impact of that funding in a wonderful development where I've visited Ukrainian families living alongside Welsh families and families who are seeking and needing accommodation.

But you have made a really important point about the circumstances, the situation that we're living in now. I've mentioned it in my statement. I mean, this is a situation where we have got to stand together and stand with organisations and individuals who support our nation of sanctuary vision, and also want to build cohesion. I've spoken in my statement more than once about the fact that this is cohesion, integration, contribution; that's the benefits of migration. Our partners are working to make this nation of sanctuary vision a reality. They're doing the vital work, they're on the front line. We support them against targeted misinformation and abuse, and I just want to say one point about this: it's vital that social media and tech companies do everything they can to protect their users from online harms, but we don't see that happening. We remain committed to working with Ofcom in their new capacity as regulators of online safety in the UK. I've mentioned it's online safety day, and the keeping safe online area of Hwb is available for schools and the wider community.

I've already responded to your point about access to legal advice. That's why we're funding our seeking sanctuary grant partnership for those organisations on the front line—the Welsh Refugee Council, Housing Justice Cymru, the British Red Cross, all of them on the front line—and funding our family reunion integration projects, which help to reunite families with their loved ones. A children's rights approach, to ensure families can be reunited in our communities. That's what delivering a nation of sanctuary is about. And it's interesting, when the UN Refugee Agency came to Wales in October, and we met with a representative, they said that Wales continues to set an important example within the UK and across Europe, as part of the global effort to help protect and find solutions for refugees. That's what we've got to be able to deliver on, and that recognition.

Cabinet Secretary, as you will remember from my previous contributions, I believe that Wales as a nation of sanctuary is an admirable cause, to offer protection to some of the world's most vulnerable people fleeing war and persecution. It's a core value that we must uphold. However, I'm acutely aware, as many others in this Chamber are, that the plight of white working-class people is one that needs urgent attention, because many of them feel that this nation is not a nation of sanctuary for them.

You will be aware of the statistics where white working-class people have been let down, and frequently we hear how they persistently underperform compared with peers from other ethnic groups, and this is from early years right through to higher education. This is particularly striking, because even though they are less likely as an ethnic group to be disadvantaged, the poorest among them are ultimately the largest disadvantaged group in the country. With this in mind, Cabinet Secretary, how can the ethos of the nation of sanctuary, which—I quote—is 

'to ensure inequalities experienced by...communities are reduced, access to opportunities increased, and relations between these communities and wider society improved',

be applied to the whole of Wales, including its white working-class communities? Thank you.

I was very proud, Joel James, to be the Minister that sought to enact the socioeconomic duty of the Equality Act 2010, and I recall it was during the pandemic. I remember the First Minister, when we were looking to recovery from the pandemic—one of the things that we wanted to do, which the Conservative UK Government refused to do, was enact the socioeconomic duty, because we have to make sure that we are looking out for all our citizens of Wales in terms of tackling socioeconomic inequalities. But today I'm here to be proud to stand in support of our nation of sanctuary and our vision and values that have been recognised by the people who come here, play their part, work and live together, with our children, in our schools, learning together in terms of integration so Wales can be the wonderful, diverse nation that we all are so proud to live in.

I want you to cast your mind back to 23 years ago, and it's surprising that it's that long ago now, but one of the schemes that embody the work carried out with refugees is the Wales asylum and refugee doctors' scheme, or the WARD scheme, that I know that you're very supportive of—I've been committed to it—and the work that has been done by Displaced People in Action, when I was a trustee there and before my time and after. It's still continuing to support refugee doctors and dentists now, I believe, to go through the training that's needed. I think up to 340 healthcare professionals have now been through that scheme.

So, I'd just like to ask: are you still committed to and supportive of that scheme? How are you working with that scheme to develop further opportunities when it comes to opticians, to other healthcare professionals, to midwives, to nurses? How do we enhance the provision and boost up to help the NHS to have qualified staff that can come here and do that element? 

The third aspect is how do we support medical students and newly qualified junior doctors who have come from places like Palestine and Gaza, who have come from conflict zones? How do we help them to finish their education? How do we use those skills in the NHS here in Wales, but also as an opportunity for them, if they wish, to go back and help to rebuild their countries following conflict? So, I'd just like your thoughts on how do we fulfil our role as an international country and look out to the world to support the people who've been through so much hardship and conflict.

Thank you very much indeed, Peredur, for those really important questions, reminding us of one of the early achievements of devolution, really, of our National Assembly for Wales. We're so mindful of it as we remember the contribution of Dafydd Elis-Thomas, who was very supportive of these kinds of developments. The refugee doctors' scheme was something that was developed with non-governmental agencies, Displaced People in Action. I would like to also recognise that Aled Edwards was a key instigator of the refugee doctors' scheme when I was the health Minister. So, as we do in Wales, we get together, and we say, 'What can we do? Let's get on with it', and we did get on with it.

I haven't got the latest statistics, but there are hundreds of doctors all over Wales, but not just in Wales, because once they got their access to, if they needed to, ESOL, English as a second language, qualifications, and the General Medical Council backing, they have been working in the NHS, not just in Wales, but in the rest of the UK, and many going back, also, to other countries. It's a really important point I will take back to HEIW, working with the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, in terms of the other health professions that you identified, but also the opportunity to be able to keep your skills and professional qualifications, not just for recognition here, but to be able to practice so that you can return home. And how many times have I, certainly, met with Afghan doctors, who came following the evacuation—Syrian, Afghan and other sanctuary seekers, and indeed Palestinian and from throughout the world—who've got those skills? Those skills we treasure when they're with us, but we must also support them as they return home to rebuild their lands and nations.

I'd like to use this opportunity to pay tribute to all the fantastic organisations that we have here in Wales, which help us to become a nation of sanctuary. I'm proud to be a founding member of the Welsh Refugee Council, which has already been mentioned here in the Chamber today, and I know first-hand the absolutely invaluable work that they do to support people at what is probably the most scaring and vulnerable time of their lives. Of course, in Cardiff, we have Oasis providing free support to sanctuary seekers here, and they welcome about 150 people through their doors every day. And then there's the Ethnic Minorities and Youth Support Team Wales offering specific support and many other organisations. I think these are just a few of the organisations that make people feel safe and at home in Wales, and I can't say too highly, really, how much we depend on them in creating this nation of sanctuary.

So, I'm very pleased that the Cabinet Secretary said in her statement—that she asked people to be careful in the words they say and the comments they do put online. Does the Minister agree that these groups should be celebrated and never the subject of misinformed and threatening comments, and that the anti-immigrant rhetoric that is around is damaging to us all?

Thank you very much, Julie Morgan. I absolutely support everything that you've said and praise those organisations—the Welsh Refugee Council, Oasis, Housing Justice Cymru, the British Red Cross and many more—who are working on the front line with our support. I've said that this is team Wales, and we not only support them in terms of the fact that many of these organisations have come under horrendous misinformation and abuse and have been caused great fear, for the staff and the offices for those who work in those places at the front line. But they, as we do, recognise that we're here to work together and to support them—it's the people who are fleeing conflict and who are coming here to hopefully find a nation of sanctuary that we need to recognise and do everything we can to support them. And it is important that this actually does lead to communities, to community cohesion, to understanding and the great blessing of diversity, as our children learn to live together in our schools. I just think it's something we should praise and shout out about when we can, to protect those who, absolutely, as you say, are under threat in any way. And we will back those organisations through thick and thin.

Cabinet Secretary, I would like to join Julie Morgan in recognising the groups and volunteers right across Wales who help make Wales a nation of sanctuary. One such example is Mark Seymour, who, in Newport, has been instrumental in the work of Bethel Community Church, which formed the Sanctuary, which has now become the Gap Wales, which aims to fill gaps left by other services in providing help and support to refugees and asylum seekers. It provides a warm welcome, a daily drop-in and a range of activities and workshops. It provides education on human trafficking, and also bicycles and helmets, and, in conjunction with Newport Live, training for refugees and asylum seekers in using those bikes. It states, Cabinet Secretary, that it's about care and concern delivered in a practical way, by supporting people from refugee and asylum-seeker communities, by building friendships and restoring a sense of belonging and community, giving practical and emotional support. Those volunteers have been delivering that for a number of years now, strengthening and increasing that help and support. I'm sure that you'd like to join me, Cabinet Secretary, in paying a very warm welcome for those activities and paying tribute to them, in helping, as I say, to make Wales a nation of sanctuary right across our country.

Thank you very much. I would not only join you in congratulating Mark Seymour and the community church and Gap Wales, I would like to visit, indeed, John Griffiths. I just wanted to finally say, Llywydd, that we have a national survey for Wales every year, and we've been talking about community cohesion, and the great benefits of migration and also our nation of sanctuary principles. We ask people whether they feel a sense of belonging in their area, and whether they feel that people from different backgrounds get on well together in their local area, which I know will be the case with your community churches, and whether people treat each other with respect. I have to say today that the vast majority of respondents suggest that Wales is a largely cohesive and inclusive place to live. Let’s keep that going.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary and everyone for their contributions this afternoon. There we are. That brings proceedings to a close.