Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru

Welcome to this virtual meeting of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee. I am pleased to have been appointed as the new Chair of our committee and look forward to working with all of the members. I'd also like to thank my predecessor, Huw Irranca-Davies, and wish him all the best in his new role.

As a reminder, the meeting is being broadcast live on Senedd.tv and the Record of Proceedings will be published as usual. Aside from the procedural adaptations for conducting proceedings in a virtual format, all other Standing Order requirements remain in place. No apologies have been received for this meeting. In terms of housekeeping, please can members ensure that all mobile devices are switched to silent mode? Senedd Cymru operates through the medium of the Welsh and English languages. Interpretation is available during today's meeting. Members are reminded that the sound operator is controlling the microphones and, as such, you do not need to mute and unmute yourselves during the public meeting either.

So, to get started today, we will begin with item 2, the instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3. First of all, we will start with item 2.1, SL(6)474, the Agricultural Wages (Wales) Order 2024. You will see in paper 1 the draft report, in paper 2 the letter from the Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales, and Trefnydd to the Llywydd on 19 March 2024. The Order makes provision about the minimum rates of remuneration and other terms and conditions of employment for agricultural workers. It revokes and replaces the 2023 Order, with changes that include increases to the minimum hourly rates of pay for agricultural workers. Senedd lawyers have identified 18 technical reporting points and one merits reporting point. A Welsh Government response has not yet been received. At this stage, I would like to invite the lawyer, Kate, to highlight any issues arising from the draft report that she would like to highlight with the committee. Diolch.

Thank you. Yes. Of the 18 technical reporting points, 13 of these relate to potentially defective drafting under Standing Order 21.2(vi). So, for example, there are some issues around the use of language, which could cause confusion to the reader as to the meaning of certain provisions of this Order. Two of the technical points are matters that require further explanation from the Welsh Government. For example, reporting point 10 seeks an explanation of when a particular provision will apply because there is an internal inconsistency within the Order, and so we've sought explanation from the Welsh Government about that. And then three of the technical reporting points identify inconsistencies between the Welsh and English language texts. For example, reporting point 18 notes that the English text refers to a higher level apprenticeship at level 4, while the Welsh text refers to a higher apprenticeship at level 4, and those are technically two different qualifications and so there is a different meaning between the two language texts of the Order. We're waiting for the Welsh Government response on those technical points, and the merits point is simply to note the breach of the 21-day rule. That's the rule that an instrument should be laid before the Senedd at least 21 days before it comes into force. The draft report just notes the explanation that's been provided for this in the letter to the Llywydd from the then Minister.

Thank you very much. Alun, Adam, Sam, would you like to make any comments or observations at this point? I see that that's a 'no', so I will confirm that Members agree the reporting points.

I'll now move on to item 2.2, SL(6)477, the Building Safety Act 2022 (Commencement No. 5 and Consequential Amendments) (Wales) Regulations 2024. These regulations are part of a suite of new legislation that implements changes to the Building Act 1984, brought about by the Building Safety Act 2022 in order to bring a new building control regime into place. Senedd lawyers have identified one technical reporting point, and a Welsh Government response has not yet been received. If I can hand over to you again, Kate, and ask you if you would like to highlight any issues arising from the draft report, please.

Yes. The technical point here is just asking the Welsh Government to explain why it has adopted a slightly different drafting approach in respect of two very similar provisions of the regulations, and we're just waiting for their response to explain that.

Thank you very much. Again, Alun, Adam, Sam, would you like to make any comments or observations at this point? I see that's a 'no', so I would like to confirm again that Members agreed the reporting points.

I'll come now to item 2.3, SL(6)478, the Meat Preparations (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2024. Also, you'll see the draft report, paper 4. Paper 5, then, is the letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs to the Llywydd on 12 April 2024. These regulations amend assimilated law, formally referred to as retained EU law, to remove the requirement for meat preparations to be deep frozen when imported into Wales. This will permit the continued import of chilled meat preparations from EEA states and allow risk-assessed imports from the rest of the world from 28 April 2024 in line with the UK Government and the Scottish Government. Senedd lawyers have identified two merits reporting points and a Welsh Government response is not required in this case. So, again, I would like to invite any issues, arising from the draft report from the lawyers—.

The first merits point is simply noting again a breach of the 21-day rule, and the explanation has been provided in the letter to the Llywydd. Essentially, it was necessary for these regulations to come into force on 28 April before the end of the current transitional staging period. And the second merits reporting point is simply noting that no consultation has been carried out in relation to the regulations. However, according to the explanatory memorandum, there was extensive GB-wide stakeholder engagement and, also, consultation with the other UK administrations. So, both those points are just noted in the draft report.

Thank you very much. And, again, Alun, Adam, Sam, would you like to make any comments or observations? I'm seeing that's a 'no', so I can confirm again that Members agree the reporting points. Diolch.

That brings me to item 3, notifications and correspondence under the inter-institutional relations agreement. I'm going to group the following two. So, item 3.1 is correspondence from the Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs on the Official Controls (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2024. Item 3.2 is correspondence from the Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs on the Official Controls (Extension of Transitional Periods) (Amendment) Regulations 2024. Paper 6, then, is the letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs on 18 April, and then you'll see the letter that I just referred to under paper 17. So, Members are invited to note the correspondence from the Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs, in which he states his intention to consent to the UK Government making and laying the Official Controls (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2024 and the Official Controls (Extension of Transitional Periods) (Amendment) Regulations 2024 in relation to Wales. The Cabinet Secretary states that the purpose of the regulations is to implement the second milestone of the border target operating model to protect biosecurity and support trade between Great Britain and third countries. He also states that it is considered appropriate for these instruments to apply to Wales as there is no policy divergence between the Welsh Government and the UK Government in this matter. He considers that legislating separately for Wales would be, and I quote,

'neither the most appropriate way to give effect to the necessary changes nor a prudent use of Welsh Government resources given other important priorities.'

So, at this point, again, I'm going to invite Alun, Adam and Sam—. Would you like to make any comments or observations about the letters that have been received? I'm seeing that that's a 'no', so we will leave this until further discussion later, if you would like.

So, then, item 4 is going to be papers to note. Item 4.1 is the correspondence from Sam Rowlands MS on his Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill. The letter from Sam Rowlands is from 15 April, and then there's a letter, again, to the Finance Committee on 15 April, and a letter from Sam Rowlands to the Children, Young People and Education Committee, again on 15 April. Members are invited to note the correspondence from Sam Rowlands to the committee, to the Finance Committee, and to the Children, Young People and Education Committee, in which he responds to the committees' reports on the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill.

Item 4.2 is correspondence from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care to the Llywydd: the Tobacco and Vapes Bill. You'll see that that letter was sent on 16 April 2024. So, Members are invited again to note the letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care to the Llywydd in relation to the Tobacco and Vapes Bill, which was introduced to the House of Commons on 20 March 2024. The Cabinet Secretary states that the Bill is jointly supported by the four UK Governments and that it is expected to largely be within the Senedd's legislative competence. The Cabinet Secretary also notes that it has not been possible to complete a detailed analysis and lay a legislative consent memorandum within the two-week deadline set out in Standing Orders due to, and I quote,

'the complexity and breadth of the provisions'

in the Bill, but that she intends to lay a memorandum in early May.

Eitem 4.3, correspondence from the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language to the Llywydd on the supplementary legislative consent memorandum, memorandum No. 3, on the Data Protection and Digital Information Bill. That was sent on 17 April. Members are invited again to note the letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language, in which he responds further to the committee's report on the supplementary legislative consent memorandum, memorandum No. 3, on the Data Protection and Digital Information Bill. The Cabinet Secretary states that the discussions between the Welsh Government and the UK Government regarding the devolved implications of a number of provisions within the Bill have now concluded, and the Welsh Government has received a final package of proposed amendments from the UK Government. However, the Cabinet Secretary states that the Welsh Government has informed the UK Government that the proposed amendments are not sufficient and it has asked the UK Government to reconsider its position. The Cabinet Secretary also states that the Welsh Government will be laying a further supplementary legislative consent memorandum, memorandum No. 4, in respect of amendments tabled to the Bill, and that it will state that the Welsh Government will not be recommending that the Senedd consent to this Bill as it is currently drafted.

That brings me on to item 5, a motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting. Does the committee resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting—and I have to say, in accordance, again, with Standing Order 17.42? Do Members agree? Diolch, and now we can move into private session.