Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru

Welcome, everybody, to this afternoon's session of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee. Just as a reminder, we're meeting in virtual session today, but the meeting is being broadcast live on Senedd.tv. The Record of Proceedings will be published as usual. Apart from the adaptations for a virtual setting, all our Standing Orders remain in place as normal. So, as per normal, if I could just remind all Members—I'll just check myself—that mobile devices should be switched to silent, please. We're operating through the mediums of Welsh and English today, so we have interpretation available, and, of course, the sound operator will be operating everybody's microphones. We don't have any evidence sessions today, but we have quite a deal of business to get through, both in public session and then when we go into private as well. We have no apologies; full attendance here today. So, thanks to all my committee members for being here with us today, getting through some important business.

We'll go straight on, then, to the first substantive item, item No. 2, instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3. The first of these is item 2.1, SL(6)359, the National Health Service (Charges to Overseas Visitors) (Amendment) (No. 2) (Wales) Regulations 2023. These regulations amend the National Health Service (Charges to Overseas Visitors) Regulations 1989, which provide for the making and recovery of charges for relevant services provided under the National Health Service (Wales) Act 2006 for certain persons ordinarily resident in the United Kingdom. The regulations make amendments to the list of countries or territories with whom the UK Government has entered into a reciprocal agreement. So, for example, Bermuda and the Cayman Islands have now been added. Now, our lawyers have identified one merits reporting point, but we don't need a Welsh Government response for this, I understand, Kate. What's the merits reporting point?

The merits reporting point is just to note that there has been no formal consultation on these regulations. The explanatory memorandum explains that this is because the regulations are implementing UK international agreements.

Thank you very much, Kate. Are we content with that, colleagues? We are. Thank you, Kate.

We'll go on, then, to item 2.2, SL(6)361, the Public Procurement (International Trade Agreements) (Amendment) (Wales) (No. 2) Regulations 2023. In your papers there, we've got a draft report and a letter from the Minister for Finance and Local Government to the Llywydd of 23 May. So, these regulations revoke and replace the Public Procurement (International Trade Agreements) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2023 in order to address technical issues identified by us in our report on these regulations. The regulations amend various public procurement regulations for the purpose of implementing the procurement chapters of free trade agreements entered into by the UK with Australia and with New Zealand. Our lawyers have identified two merits points, and, again, we don't need a Welsh Government response here in response to these. Kate, what have we found here?

The first merits point is just to note that these regulations are being made in response to this committee's report on the original 2023 regulations, and then the second merits point is to note the breach of the 21-day convention, and the letter to the Llywydd.

Thank you, Kate, and, as I say, we don't need a Welsh Government response to those. Are colleagues content with that? We are. Good.

That takes us on to the last item, then, in this section, item 2.3. It’s an affirmative resolution instrument, SL(6)360, the Allocation of Housing and Homelessness (Eligibility) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2023, and, again, we have a draft report and a written statement by the Minister for Climate Change of 22 May. These regulations amend the Allocation of Housing and Homelessness (Eligibility) (Wales) Regulations of 2014, which make provision for certain categories of persons from abroad to be eligible or ineligible for an allocation of housing, accommodation and for housing assistance, and colleagues will recall that the Minister wrote to us before half term to ask that we expedite our consideration of these regulations. So, the regulations extend the eligibility to people who are British nationals, others not subject to immigration control or treated as such, and anyone with immigration leave and recourse to public funds arriving in the UK due to the civil unrest in Sudan. Our lawyers have identified one merits reporting point, and, again, there’s no Welsh Government response needed. Kate, what is that?

The merits point is to note that no consultation has been carried out in relation to these regulations, and, according to the explanatory memorandum, this is because of the speed at which events in Sudan have occurred.

Thank you very much, Kate. So, we can see that there’s a good reason, good justification here for expediting these particular regulations. Colleagues, are you content with that reporting point? We are. Thank you.

So, that brings us on, then, to item No. 3, which is instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Orders 21.2 or 21.3 that we have previously considered, and, under this, we have one item. It’s SL(6)356, the Public Procurement (International Trade Agreements) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2023, and we have a report and a Welsh Government response. We considered this instrument at our meeting on 22 May and we laid our report the same day. So, I’d just invite Members to note the Welsh Government response to the report that we’ve now received, and, as we discussed at item 2.2, the original regulations have been withdrawn and replaced. So, colleagues, are we content with this? We are.

In which case, then, we move on to item No. 4, which is instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.7 that we’ve previously considered, and we have one item here as well. It’s in respect of item 4.1, SL(6)357, the school admission appeals code, and you have a report and a Welsh Government response in your papers. We considered this on our committee—the draft code—at our meeting on 22 May and we laid our report the same day. So, I just invite Members to note the Welsh Government response to that report that has since been received. You will note that the code is being withdrawn and a new version of the code will be relaid as soon as practicable, we are informed. Are Members content to note that? We are. Peredur.

Is it because of all the drafting issues that they’ve just decided to pull it back and start again?

I wonder if we have any insight on that, Pered. Kate, or any one of our colleagues?

I believe it’s to look at the committee’s report and to address the points that have been made. We identified quite a lot of issues, so, yes, I think that’s why they’ve been withdrawn.

Thank you very much. Good.

Okay, and we go on, then, to item No. 5, notifications and correspondence under the inter-institutional relations agreement. So, under 5.1, we have correspondence from the Minister for Climate Change in respect of the net-zero energy and climate change inter-ministerial group. That meeting took place on 27 April 2023, and the letter informs us that the discussions focused on the grid network investment and inter-governmental collaboration.

Again, colleagues, if there's anything on these you want to raise, just shoot your hand up or shout out there. Item 5.2, we have correspondence from the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution in respect of the inter-ministerial group on justice. You'll recall from our last meeting, colleagues, that we considered a letter from the Counsel General, informing us that the inaugural meeting of that inter-ministerial group on justice was due to take place on 24 May. Now, the follow-up letter that we have from the Counsel General with us today informs us that the meeting was postponed due to the unavailability of Lord Bellamy KC, who was due to chair that inaugural meeting. They are seeking an alternative date, and the Counsel General has informed us that he will notify us as soon as that date has been agreed.

Item 5.3, we have correspondence from the Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales, and Trefnydd in respect of the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board (Amendment) Order 2023. She confirms in that letter that she has granted approval to Lord Benyon, Minister for Biosecurity, Marine and Rural Affairs, to make the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board (Amendment) Order 2023. This Order will make amendments to the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board Order 2008, which is a UK-wide statutory instrument that contains elements within the competence of Welsh Ministers. This follows a UK-wide targeted consultation with industry and with stakeholders. Just also to note, the Minister notes that Welsh Government officials discussed and refined the 2023 Order with counterparts in DEFRA, the Scottish Government, the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs in Northern Ireland, and this included the development of the consultation document and the responses, which have shaped the content of the Order. So, they're at pains to describe the extent of the engagement there to get this right.

Item 5.4, we have correspondence from the Minister for Health and Social Services in respect of the Healthcare (International Arrangements) (EU Exit) Regulations 2023, and you have a couple of letters in your pack there. So, I just ask you to note the correspondence with the Minister in relation to the Healthcare (International Arrangements) (EU Exit) Regulations 2023, and the Minister responds to the questions we put in our letter of 15 May in relation to, amongst other things, the commencement of the main enabling powers for the regulations, clarity around how Welsh local health boards have been consulted, and why the UK Government is carrying out this work on behalf of the Welsh Government. And on all these points, of course, we can return to this in private session as well.

So, in which case, if we're happy to note those, we'll go on to item No. 6, which are other papers to note, the first of which we've batched together, colleagues: items 6.1, 6.2 and 6.3. We're grateful to Peter Fox MS for his correspondence there in response to Senedd committees' reports on the Food (Wales) Bill, which, of course, was debated in the Senedd recently. As Members will know, the vote in the Senedd on 24 May meant that the Bill fell. But just to note as well, at item 6.1, we have the letter from Peter Fox of 19 May, responding to the 10 recommendations made in our report on the Bill. And in 6.2 and 6.3, we have Peter's responses to the reports of the Finance Committee and the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee as well. Again, I think there might be related aspects we'll want to return to in private session as well, perhaps.

Item 6.4, then, we have correspondence from the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee to the Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales, and Trefnydd in respect of the food Bill. The Chair has asked the Minister to outline her plan to capitalise on the momentum created by Peter Fox MS and to respond to several recommendations outlined in the report on the Bill by the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee. It's interesting to note that correspondence and how they're trying to continue the momentum behind the parts of that Bill.

Item 6.5, we have correspondence with the Business Committee, again in respect of the Food (Wales) Bill. This is regarding recommendation 1 of our report on the Food (Wales) Bill, and the Business Committee's proposed review of the Member's Bill procedure, which is something we've discussed and put forward. The Llywydd has confirmed that the Business Committee has recently agreed to give further consideration to the Member's Bill process prior to the summer recess, and they will consider advice during the summer term on the feasibility of considering the selection process for Members' Bills in isolation, or whether this should be done as part of a fuller review. So, the good news there, colleagues, is that the Business Committee has agreed to take our committee's recommendation into account when considering their approach, as well as during any subsequent fuller review. And again, we can return to this in private session.

Item 6.6, we have a written statement by the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution on the progress of the Independent Commission on the Constitutional Future of Wales. And the Counsel General, just to note, states that the commission is on course to publish its final report, including recommendations, by the end of 2023.

And item 6.7, we have correspondence from the Minister for Health and Social Services in respect of the Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill, where the Minister confirms she has tabled an amendment for Stage 2 proceedings on the Bill, and the Minister states that this amendment is in response to recommendations made by our committee and the Health and Social Care Committee regarding a duty to consult before regulations are made, under section 10A(1) of the National Health Service Wales Act 2006, as amended by section 3 of the Bill. And the Minister also states that the intention of the amendment is to provide a middle ground between the recommendations proposed by the committees.

A couple of other items of correspondence here: item 6.8, we have correspondence from the Finance Committee to the Minister for Finance and Local Government in respect of the legislative consent memorandum on the Non-Domestic Rating Bill. The Finance Committee correspondence states that it shares several concerns expressed by this committee and requests a thorough explanation as to why the changes introduced by clauses 15(3)(d) and 15(4) of the Bill are being made. And the Minister's response states that she covered these questions in the correspondence with the committee, which we have in our papers today at item 11. And I've got a feeling this might well be one that we return to, not least because we also happen to have the Chair of that committee on this committee as well, so I suspect we'll be coming back to this in private session.

Item 6.9, then, the final item in this section, is correspondence from the British Red Cross in respect of the legislative consent memorandum on the Illegal Migration Bill. And the briefing sets out the concerns of the British Red Cross with the Bill, and again, we can return to this, as needed, in private session. So, colleagues, a fair bit of business we got through there, some of which we will want to return to, but it's brought us to the end of the matters we need to discuss in public. We've got a fair bit, though, to get through in private.

Can I just ask you whether, under Standing Order 17.42, you're happy to resolve to exclude the public for the remainder of the meeting and we can then move into private? We are. Thank you. Gareth and our clerking team, I wonder if you could take us into private session, please.