Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru

Bore da. Croeso. Good morning and welcome to this morning's meeting of the Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee here in the Senedd, the Welsh Parliament. As always, the meeting will be conducted bilingually, with headsets providing simultaneous translation on channel 1 and sound amplification on channel 2. Participants joining online can access translation by clicking on the globe icon on Zoom. We've had apologies from Rhianon Passmore and we understand the remaining committee member, Adam Price, will be joining us later. Do Members present have any declarations of registrable interest they wish to declare? I see no indications. Thank you very much indeed.

We have a series of papers to note, as normal. The first being a letter from Sioned Evans, chief operating officer, Welsh Government, to myself as Chair regarding the recommendations made in our report, 'Scrutiny of Accounts:
Amgueddfa Cymru 2021-22'. She's written to us to provide an update on their roll-out of a self-assessment model for reviewing arm's-length bodies. This is in response to recommendation 10 of our report on Amgueddfa Cymru's accounts for 2021-22. The letter received includes the model and guidance that was issued to all arm's-length bodies in May 2025. She explains that the model was piloted in late 2024, continuing into early this year, involving a small number of partnership teams and bodies. She describes the response as being generally positive, with some changes made as a result of feedback. The revised model shared will now be in use for this year, 2025-26. The majority of bodies that have not been reviewed since 2021 have been asked to carry out a self-assessment, with outcomes to be reported by 31 March 2026. The letter explains that any issues identified as part of this process could lead to further revisions to the model. The letter also refers to other opportunities for a review, explaining, and I quote,

'there are a number of review methods available. These include a focus on key issues identified through the assessment, a Critical Friend Review or similar tool from the Welsh Government Policy Gateway and Integrated Assurance Hub, or an internally led Rapid Review.'

Our committee will be making reference to the Welsh Government's risk assessment of its arm's-length bodies in its forthcoming report on the scrutiny of accounts, Welsh Government, 2023-24. Members therefore may wish to reflect on the contents of this letter in that report. The clerking team can help prepare draft revisions to the report for our consideration. 

Members, do you have any comments on this letter? May I welcome Adam Price? We're still on paper to note 1, Adam. Members, do you have any comments on the letter received or are you content to note the letter? I think content to note the letter.

So, we shall move on to our second paper to note: public appointments—consideration of Welsh Government's response. We've received a response from the Welsh Government to our report, which will need to be considered in further detail. It is deeply regrettable that the Welsh Government has failed to indicate in their response whether recommendations have been accepted, rejected or even accepted in principle or in part. Indeed, the committee has previously raised concerns with the Welsh Government about recommendations being accepted only in principle, given that the previous Permanent Secretary indicated to our predecessor committee that this practice would be discontinued back in 2018, seven years ago. This further step to not respond in line with existing convention inhibits this committee's ability to scrutinise implementation, and it's therefore of serious concern to myself in role as Chair. I suspect this practice would also be of concern to other committees, Chairs and their members.

This report was prepared on the basis of several in-depth evidence sessions, as you know, and any recommendations were made with a genuine intention to make improvements and to respond to concerns raised with us. Whilst we accept that not all recommendations will be accepted—they rarely are—this is a troubling development, and we will be pursuing this further with the Welsh Government as a matter of priority. In instances where recommendations are rejected, we would expect, in the interest of accountability, for this rejection to be clearly flagged in the Welsh Government's response, and a full explanation of the reasons for rejection to be provided. There will be a committee debate on the contents of the report on 25 June, providing an opportunity to reflect on the Welsh Government's response, as part of that session. Members, at this stage—we will be revisiting this later in private—do you have any comments, or are you content to note? Adam, I think you may have a comment.

Thank you. In my view, it's disrespectful to both this committee and the Parliament. It's almost contemptuous of Parliament and the role that Parliament plays in a representative democracy. Any other comments from others at this stage? No. Thank you. We'll note there will be further discussion, as indicated, and also an opportunity to pursue this in debate next week.

Our next item is actually to bring this section of the meeting in public to a close. So, I propose, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(ix), that we resolve to meet in private for the remainder of today's meeting. Are all Members content? I see that Members are content. I'd be grateful if we could go into closed session.