Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru

Welcome to today's meeting. In the absence of the Chair, Carolyn Thomas, the first item on today's agenda is the election of a temporary Chair for today's meeting. Therefore, under Standing Order 17.22, I call for nominations for a temporary Chair.

I nominate Luke Fletcher.

Are there any other nominations? I see that there are none. I therefore propose that Luke Fletcher is appointed temporary Chair of the committee for today's meeting. I see no objections.

The meeting, just as a reminder, is being broadcast live on Senedd.tv, and the Record of Proceedings will be published as usual. If I could move to the second item, which is apologies—do we have any apologies?

Carolyn Thomas and Vaughan.

Just Carolyn and Vaughan?

Yes.

Great. Just as a reminder for committee members as well, they should note any declarations of interest now or at the relevant point during today's proceedings.

We'll move on to item 3, new petitions. The first petition, 3.1, P-06-1501, 'Put rugby in the curriculum for Wales from primary schools through to secondary Schools'. This petition was submitted by Alex Linney with 646 signatures, of which 643 were based in Wales. I'll read the text as follows:

'As a Coach of a under 10s rugby team. I have first hand experienced and witnessed the positive impact Rugby has on children in there sporting development, social skills, mental wellbeing and life skills. I have noticed during my time as a coach that very few primary schools in Wales offer rugby. Schools unfortunately do not prioritise rugby and is often an after thought. Children are not given the opportunity to fall in love with the sport from a young age.'

I'll now invite committee members to comment on this. If committee members are happy, I'll begin. I was one of those kids who benefited from rugby growing up. You can see by my size I wasn't really a footballer. I really appreciate the petition on this. I know that, at the moment, it's actually quite a struggle for a lot of schools to put a team together.

I'm just thinking in terms of how we progress this petition. Looking at how the new curriculum has been set up, it does give a number of choices for teachers in terms of what sports are on offer. Although I might have been an avid rugby player when I was in school, I also recognise that rugby is not for everybody. It's important that we ensure that there is a variety of sports available for people and students in school.

I'm just looking at how we might be able to progress this. I'm not seeing how we as a committee might be able to progress this. I think perhaps we could write to the Children, Young People and Education Committee just to highlight the petition, but other than that, I don't think we can do much more on it. So, if the committee would agree, I think we should thank the petitioner, close the petition, but of course highlight it with the relevant subject committees. Everyone in agreement? Diolch yn fawr. Thank you. If we could write to the petitioner and thank him, and close the petition, and write to those relevant subject committees, that would be great.

The next petition, 3.2, P-06-1502, 'Scrap Proposals for a Tourism Tax'. This petition was submitted by Daniel McCarthy with 813 signatures, of which 786 signatures were based in Wales. The text reads as follows:

'The recent proposals for a tourism tax in Wales are an ill thought out means of generating revenue for the Welsh Government, especially during a cost of living crisis. This is fundamentally anti-business and counterproductive to the intent of the proposals as any tourism levy will lead to fewer tourists holidaying to Wales and less tax generated for the government. Please sign this petition to indicate to the Finance Secretary the dissent of the public at these crudely drawn up plans.'

Could I invite Joel to lead us on this petition, please?

Thank you, Chair. I suspect I am probably in the minority on the committee in the sense that I agree with this petition. I think it is going to have a devastating impact on the tourism industry in Wales, when it's taken into account with a number of other reforms, for want of a better word—I wouldn't call them that—that the Welsh Government have implemented in terms of the 182-day ruling, and then also increased council tax on second homes. But I'm also conscious that it is in the process of going through the legislative process. I think Stage 2 amendments are happening sometime this week, I think maybe even Thursday, and so I'd be reluctant as a committee to comment on it too much until we know the outcome of that, and maybe even the final proposals, when they come towards the Senedd Chamber. So, I was wondering if people would be happy to keep this petition open until that process has run its course, and then we can debate this fuller then. 'Fully', I should say.

I see Rhys is nodding in agreement, and, yes, I'm comfortable with that proposal. Obviously, I've made my views on the tourism tax known, but, as you say, Joel, it's still going through the legislative process. I think, actually, the Stage 2 process is on Thursday, which is going to be a long session, and I'm going to be sat in that session listening to a lot of the amendments at Stage 2, so I'm looking forward to that. But, yes, if everyone's happy with that, then we'll go with what Joel's outlined. Great, diolch yn fawr.

The next petition, 3.3, P-06-1525, 'Preserve the unique character of the Monmouthshire and Brecon Canal for the future generations of Wales'. 

This petition was submitted by Jan Butler, with 13,816 signatures, of which 10,686 were based in Wales. We did as well have a number of handwritten signatures that arrived this morning in the post. They haven't been counted yet, so we'll come back to committee with an updated figure once those handwritten signatures have been accounted for. The text of the petition reads as follows:

'The Mon and Brec is one of the most picturesque and tranquil waterways in the UK winding through Bannau Brycheiniog National Park and through many rural and later urban communities as it makes its way from Brecon, through Talybont on Usk onwards through Goytre Wharf towards Newport. It provides the lifeblood to residents and communities in its path and attracts approximately 3 million visitors a year who make significant contribution to the local economy enabling these communities to thrive.'

Could I turn to Rhys to take us through this petition, please?

Diolch yn fawr, Cadeirydd. Thank you very much to the petitioner. It's obvious, from the number of signatures and these additional signatures, that there's some great support, significant support for the canal. Canals are mentioned quite often, aren't they, in Plenary? I think the Deputy First Minister himself has a barge, and I think Sioned Williams has mentioned and Laura Anne Jones has mentioned canals fairly recently, and so has Mike Hedges.

I think the issue here is that the River Usk supplies most of the water with regard to the canal, nearly up to 90 per cent, and the northern part of the canal is managed by the Canal River Trust. Now they're required to have a licence to abstract water from the River Usk, with that being done for environmental reasons, but I think the pressure on the trust itself is very significant. The petitioner has not been satisfied by the Welsh Government response. The petitioner believes that the Welsh Government hasn't really responded to the issue of the contribution the canal makes towards the environment, tourism, commerce and the importance of the canal to many people in the area.

They've kindly invited us, Cadeirydd, to visit the canal. Can I suggest that we take up that kind invitation to visit the canal on 2 June? I would also suggest, secondly, because of the amount of support, that we do contact the Business Committee to request that this is raised as a debate—that we request that this will be heard as a debate in Plenary. Diolch.

Joel.

Thank you, Chair. I'd just like to add that I agree with my Petitions Committee colleague's comments, and I fully support a visit. I've got to admit, as a child, I regularly went to the Brecon Beacons with my family and it's disappointing to hear that this canal, which has been in operation for 200 years, has unfortunately come up now against NRW and to hear the issues it's causing. Also, the lack of understanding, as Rhys was saying there, goes all the way up to the Deputy Minister as well. We've seen the issues in the pack that we have here, in that the Canal and River Trust has appealed this ruling and neither NRW nor the Deputy Minister has understood why this appeal has happened. In their statements, and in the correspondence, they've made mistakes as to why this appeal has happened. I worry whether or not that's trying—I don't necessarily say it’s deliberate—but whether or not that's impacting how the canal trust could be viewed by the public. My worry is that I wouldn't want the public to think that this is a canal trust that's operating purely to try and cause environmental damage, which isn't the case, really. I think that's what we need to get to the bottom of, and highlight when we have this meeting now in June, because, as I say, in the earlier section we talked about the tourism tax and the impact that's going to have, well, this is all linked, isn't it, really? If this canal goes under, then that's another nail in the coffin of our industry here, really. So, thank you, Chair.

Diolch, Joel. Yes, there's a lot of background to this particular item and I would recommend that anyone with an interest reads into it. On the point around canals, I think canals are massively underutilised resources when it comes to tourism, as you said, Joel. I would be happy as well to support a visit to the canal just to learn a bit more, especially if we're going to be tabling for a debate, as Rhys has suggested. I think it'll give us some context and a useful opportunity as well to ask questions directly to the petitioner and their colleagues. So, if everyone is happy, can I suggest that we accept that kind invitation from the petitioner, and ask the Business Committee for a debate following that visit? Great.

That will move us on to item 4, which is 'Updates to previous petitions', and the first petition, P-06-1373, 'Stop Welsh Government Wasting £4million on Skyline private development Kilvey Hill, Swansea'. Just as a reminder, this petition was submitted by Neil Jones with 2,109 signatures online and 942 signatures on paper, which makes for a total of 3,051 signatures. I invite Members to comment on this petition, but if Members are content, I'll start on this specific petition. I declare an interest as well: it’s within the region I represent, and I've been supportive of what many of the residents have said in this particular case.

I think it's important, just in terms of the role of the Petitions Committee, for us to be clear in terms of what we, as a committee, can do going forward, because I am struggling to see what we can do. This is, obviously, now a matter that has been discussed by Swansea Council. They've done their work on their end. I think there are still some questions to ask. One thing I would suggest, if the committee is happy, is that we write to the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning just to highlight some of the concerns that have been raised by the petitioner, but also to ask about some of the commercial interests of the company that is going to be pushing forward with this development. Some of those commercial interests are outside of the UK. And that we as well copy in the local authority to any correspondence that we send, just so they're also aware of some of the questions we've been asking.

It's important, I think, that we encourage the petitioner, as well, to continue the dialogue with the council on this particular matter, because it is quite a localised issue. But that's, as far as I can see, what we can do at this moment in time as a committee. Are Members in agreement with how we proceed on this basis?

But I do think it's worth highlighting that we will, perhaps at a future meeting, have to decide where this petition goes. I think there is a role for local Members in the Chamber, including myself, to be raising this directly with the Government as well. But as far as I can see it, where we currently stand, if we could, perhaps, write to the Minister for the economy, setting out some of these concerns, and wait for the response before we decide where to take the petition.

Sorry, I know that was a bit rambling there. I don't know if anyone wants to come in at all. No. Are you happy with that suggestion? Great. Diolch yn fawr. 

The next petition is P-06-1444, 'Women of North Wales have the right to have a Menopause Services/Clinic in Ysbyty Gwynedd'. As a reminder, this petition was submitted by Delyth with 1,347 signatures, of which 1,311 were based in Wales. Could I invite Joel to discuss this petition and any actions that we might want to take as a committee?

Thank you, Chair. I think this is about the third time now that we have discussed this as a committee. Obviously, there is more information added every time. I know that the petitioner has come back with some further comments that they would like answered by the Minister. I was wondering whether or not the committee would be happy if we could put those comments to the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care. Also, I would like to copy in the Health and Social Care Committee, because I know they have jurisdiction over these matters, as they say, and then see what that response is like before deciding anything further on this at a later date, maybe, if people are happy with that.

Yes, happy. Rhys. 

Great. Diolch, Joel. Could I suggest then we action some of those suggestions that Joel has made? Great. Diolch yn fawr.

The next petition is P-06-1472, 'Protect our wildlife...ban plastic grass in Wales!' As a reminder, this petition was submitted by Robert Curtis with 338 signatures, of which 307 were based in Wales. Could I invite Rhys to walk us through this petition, please?

Diolch yn fawr, Gadeirydd. This petition was submitted by a prominent environmentalist from the Vale of Glamorgan. It's the second time we've considered it. I must say, personally, I have got a lot of sympathy towards this petition. I don't see the benefits of plastic grass and the disadvantages of it have been clearly set out, once again, by the petitioner.

We have had a response from the Deputy First Minister, to which the petitioner mentioned, again, the disadvantages and the negative impact of plastic grass. It's clear that plastic grass is not going to be banned. The Deputy First Minister said that they've set up a plastics in the environment group. They have met twice. They last met in March. I think the intention is to collaborate, bring people together to collaborate, to share knowledge and to inform policy decisions. I don't know whether something in the future can come from that. Unfortunately, I know this isn't going to be the answer that the petitioner and many others would want, but considering the answer from the Deputy First Minister, I can't see where this committee can take this matter. Unfortunately, all we can do now is to thank the petitioner and close the petition.

I think I saw Joel nod in agreement and I would agree with that course of action as well. It feels like that group that the Deputy First Minister has set up on plastics, in particular, would be where a decision is likely to come on this particular issue. So, if we are all in agreement, could I suggest that we close the petition, thank the petitioner and perhaps just make the petitioner aware—although I imagine he is aware already—of that group that has been established within the Welsh Government? Great. Diolch yn fawr. 

The next petition is P-06-1492, 'Maintain 24 hour access to the Minor Injuries Unit (MIU) at Prince Philip Hospital, Llanelli'. As a reminder, this was submitted by Alexander Bryant-Evans with 969 signatures, of which 952 were based in Wales. Could I ask Joel to take us through this petition and any potential actions, please?

Thank you, Chair. I hope people don't mind, but I understand the health board is currently doing a consultation on the minor injuries unit, and I know it's coming to an end. It might have already ended, actually, within the last couple of weeks. I would like to find out more about the responses to that before making any more decisions on this. Would that be okay?

I can see Rhys nodding in agreement. The proposal is to keep the petition open, pending that further information. If we're all in agreement, I suggest that we keep the petition open. Diolch yn fawr.

The next petition is P-06-1510, 'Direct NRW to revoke the environmental permit and ensure the closure of Enovert’s Hafod Landfill Site in Wrexham'. This, as a reminder, was submitted by Steven Gittins, with 1,125 signatures, of which 1,095 signatures were based in Wales. Could I invite Rhys to discuss this petition and any potential actions, please?

Diolch, Cadeirydd. It's the second time we've discussed this petition, and it's come before us again shortly after the last time. We were going to discuss it at our last meeting, but it was adjourned at that point, to refer to other committees, to see whether they could take on this piece of work. We've received a response from them: because of their timetable, or because of legislation in front of those committees, they're unable to undertake this work.

Since the last meeting, we've received several pieces of correspondence from campaigners with regard to this matter, and we've also received a letter from Enovert, who runs the Hafod landfill. There have obviously been meetings between Enovert and the council and Natural Resources Wales. We've also had some further evidence from the petitioner, detailing further issues—there's some new data from them.

There are probably a few avenues we could go down, but I'm hesitant to make a decision today—and perhaps the petitioner would not be happy with this. But I know that our usual Chair has spoken out with regard to this matter, has an interest in this matter; she is a Member for the area. I think probably it's important that she is in attendance, and probably important that there are more than just the three of us here to make this decision. So, can I suggest maybe we defer this matter? It has come back very quickly—more quickly than any other petition I've been aware of. So, can we just defer to our next meeting, when, hopefully, the Chair, the local Member, will be back, so we can discuss this in a broader way at that point?

I can see that Joel is in agreement with that proposal, and I am in agreement as well. I know the usual Chair is quite vocal on this particular issue, so I would be hesitant as well for us to make a decision without her. If I could suggest that we keep the petition open, that we defer to our next meeting, where Carolyn will be present, hopefully, so that we can then discuss it in perhaps more detail. Diolch yn fawr.

Moving on to item 5, papers to note. There are two papers to note. Could I ask if any Members have any comments that they wish to make on those papers? I will just highlight 5.2, which is in relation to the petition on the ban on smartphones. We've had a response now from the Government, and that debate is set for this Wednesday. So, I would encourage anyone with an interest in this particular petition to watch that debate. It's been a very interesting petition to do research on and to explore, and I imagine it will be quite an interesting debate as well. So, Members note the papers. Are we happy? Great. 

Moving on to the final item on the agenda, which concludes our public business, could I propose, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42, that the committee resolves to meet in private for the remainder of this meeting? Are Members content? Diolch yn fawr. And, just for the record, the next meeting date—when was that?

We'll go on a visit, hopefully, on 2 June, and then we'll be meeting again on 16 June.

Diolch yn fawr. That concludes today's public business.