Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru

We have received apologies from Laura Anne Jones MS, and we have Janet Finch-Saunders as a substitute. We have received apologies from Alun Davies MS and have Lee Waters as a substitute. As a reminder, the meeting is being broadcast live on Senedd.tv and the Record of Proceedings will be published as usual. Please can Members ensure that all mobile devices are switched to silent mode. Senedd Cymru operates through the medium of both the English and Welsh languages. Interpretation is available during today’s meeting.

Item 2 is instruments that raise no reporting issues under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3. The Elections and Elected Bodies (Wales) Act 2024 (Consequential Amendments) Regulations 2025. These regulations make consequential amendments to secondary legislation arising from the commencement of provisions with the Elections and Elected Bodies (Wales) Act 2024, namely in relation to abolishing the independent remuneration panel for Wales and its functions being conferred on the Democracy and Boundary Commission Cymru. Senedd lawyers have identified no reporting points. Do Members have any comments or observations? No.

On to item 3, instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3, made negative resolution instruments: the Charges for Residues Surveillance (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2025. These regulations would have amended the 2024 regulations of the same name, which themselves amended the 2006 regulations, to enable the competent authorities responsible for official controls to recover costs incurred in carrying out inspections and controls relating to surveillance of animals and animal products. On Friday, the Welsh Government laid further regulations that revoke these regulations because of the error identified in the first technical point of our draft report, which, in line with standard practice, was shared with the Welsh Government last week. The replacement regulations will be considered by the committee next week. A Welsh Government response has not yet been received. Kate, anything to add?

Just to note that the technical reporting point related to an inconsistency between the Welsh and English language texts in relation to the date the regulations were supposed to come into force, and so the regulations that were laid on Friday will revoke and replace these regulations in order to correct that point. And just to note, the merits point is simply a point to note. It relates to potential retrospective effect, but we don't think this has any practical impact, so it is just a point to note.

Can I just say, as a general point, it's disappointing when the Welsh Government are not able to get the English and Welsh to say the same things? 

Item 3.2, the National Health Service (Pharmaceutical Services) (Wales) (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2025. These regulations amend the National Health Service (Pharmaceutical Services) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2024, and the National Health Service (Pharmaceutical Services) (Wales) Regulations 2020, to address technical reporting points this committee has previously raised. Senedd lawyers have identified two technical and one merits reporting points. A Welsh Government response has not yet been received. Kate, would you like to take us through the reporting points?

The first technical reporting point identifies potentially defective drafting where a definition has been removed from the 2020 regulations, but the defined term still appears in the schedules to those regulations. The second technical point seeks further explanation from the Welsh Government in relation to an apparent error in the Welsh language text. And then the merits point is simply to note that these regulations have been made in response to the committee's report on the 2024 regulations, and we're just waiting for the Welsh Government to respond on the technical reporting points.

Are we happy with these reporting points? Yes.

Item 3.3, the Agricultural Wages (Wales) Order 2025, draft report. This Order makes provision about the minimum rates of remuneration and other terms and conditions of employment for agricultural workers. It revokes and replaces the Agricultural Wages (Wales) Order 2024 with changes that include increases to the minimum hourly rates of pay. Senedd lawyers have identified seven technical and one merits reporting points. A Welsh Government response has not yet been received. Kate, would you like to run us through the reporting points?

Four of the technical reporting points are matters that require further explanation from the Welsh Government. So, for example, point 6 is seeking further explanation as to the formula that's used in the Order in relation to annual leave calculations for irregular hours and part-year workers. Two of the technical points identify potentially defective drafting, and the final technical point notes an inconsistency between the Welsh and English language texts in relation to the term 'normal weekly pay'. And then the merits point is just noting that this Order makes numerous corrections to historical errors that were identified by this committee in its report on the 2024 Order—the equivalent Order that was made in 2024—and we're waiting for the Welsh Government to respond.

Thanks, Kate. Do Members have anything they want to raise? No.

On to item 3.4, the Children Act 2004 (Children Missing Education Database) (Pilot) (Wales) Regulations 2025. These regulations are being made for pilot purposes and place a duty on certain pilot local authorities in Wales to develop and maintain a database of children who may be missing education. Senedd lawyers have identified three technical and three merits reporting points. A Welsh Government response has not yet been received. Before I call Kate in, I believe Members have received correspondence on this item. If we want to go into that correspondence, because some of it was sent to us saying 'not to be disclosed', we'll have to, if we want to discuss it, do it in private. Over to you, Kate. 

Thank you. The three technical points are seeking further explanation from the Welsh Government in relation to aspects of these regulations. So, for example, the third point is asking about the use of the same term in the Welsh text to mean both 'usually resident' and 'ordinarily resident', which have different meanings in the English language text. The first merits point notes that there's a sunset provision in the regulations, so they'll cease to have effect on 8 April 2026. The second merits point just draws Members' attentions to which local authorities are involved in this pilot scheme. And then the final merits point identifies an error in the explanatory memorandum relating to the coming into force of section 29 of the Children Act 2004. And we're waiting for the Welsh Government to provide a response. 

Thank you, Kate. Are we happy to agree these points? Lee.

As you mentioned, Chair, there is some concern amongst the home educating community, and I think it's just worth noting that. They clearly feel the policy is disproportionate to the risk presented, and that they're not valued, given that the education system is failing and they feel that they have to step in to fill that gap. I do note this is a pilot, and I think pilots are good practice for testing policies, and obviously the Senedd will want to keep a close eye to see how that pilot's reported and what lessons are learned.

Thank you, Lee. No-one else? Members, we've heard what Lee said. Are we happy to agree the reporting points? Yes. 

Item 4, instruments that raise issues reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3, previously considered. The Education (Student Finance) (Fee Limit and Loan Amounts) (Miscellaneous Amendments) (Wales) Regulations 2025. The committee considered this instrument at its meeting on 17 March and laid its report the same day. Members are invited to note the Welsh Government response to the report, which has since been received. Kate, do you have anything to add? 

Just to note that the Welsh Government has provided the further information that was requested, so we've got no further comments. 

Great, so we note the Welsh Government's response.

Item 4.2, the Education (Student Finance) (Amounts) (Miscellaneous Amendments) (Wales) Regulations 2025. The committee considered this instrument at its meeting on 17 March and laid its report on the same day. Members are invited to note the Welsh Government's response to the report, which has since been received. In response to one of our reporting points, the Welsh Government has withdrawn the explanatory memorandum and laid a revised version. Kate, do you have anything to add? 

No further comments on this.

Members, do you have anything to add? No. Okay, can we note it, then?

The Agricultural Tenancies (Requests for Landlord’s Consent or Variation of Terms) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2025. The committee considered this instrument at its meeting on 17 March and laid its report the same day. Members are again invited to note the Welsh Government's response to the report, which has since been received. Kate, do you have anything to raise from the Welsh Government response? 

Just to note that the Welsh Government is seeking to correct the technical points by way of a correction slip, and on the reasons for the delay in making the corrections in these regulations, the Welsh Government cites unforeseen circumstances, which meant that other matters took precedence. However, the Welsh Government considers that the risk of a negative impact on those seeking to exercise rights under the regulations is minimal.

Thank you, Kate. 

Notifications and correspondence under the inter-institutional relations agreement. The Cabinet Secretary's letter informs us that a meeting of the Interministerial Group for Health and Social Care was held on the 11 December. It links to a communiqué published on the gov.uk website, which details attendees and topics of discussion, with the focus on joint working and inter-governmental relations within the four nations. It is unclear why Senedd committees have only now received notification of the meeting. Are Members content to note it? Yes.  

Item 6, papers to note—correspondence from the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning. This is the Welsh Government response to the committee’s report on the Welsh Government’s supplementary legislative consent memorandum on the Great British Energy Bill—a letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning. Members are invited to note the letter from the Cabinet Secretary, where she outlines her responses to the recommendations we made in our report. Members will be aware that the Senedd agreed a legislative consent motion for the relevant provisions in the Bill on 4 February this year. Do Members have any comments they wish to make? No. Okay. 

Correspondence from the Llywydd, on a proposed section 150 Order in relation to the Senedd and Elections (Wales) Act 2020 and the Public Services Ombudsman (Wales) Act 2019. This letter from the Llywydd invites us to comment on her proposed response to the Welsh Government in relation to a proposed section 150 Order in relation to the Senedd and Elections (Wales) Act 2020 and the Public Services Ombudsman (Wales) Act 2019. Do Members have anything they wish to comment on now? No.

Okay, that takes us to item 7, a motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting. In accordance with Standing Order 17.42, I invite the committee to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting. Do Members agree? Yes. Thank you.