Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru

Can I welcome everyone to today's Petitions Committee? And as a reminder to those in the meeting and those watching, this meeting is being broadcast live on Senedd.tv and the Record of Proceedings will be published as per usual. Aside from the procedural adaptations for conducting meetings and proceedings in a hybrid format, all other Standing Order requirements remain in place.

Before we do move on to the first item today, can I just thank the clerking team and Members who've been present, both in committee and in the Chamber when we've had debates over the last couple of weeks when I've not been able to be here? So, thank you for keeping the ball rolling with this important committee. I'm really grateful for that.

Okay, item 1, apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest. We have received apologies from Buffy Williams, and no substitutions as Buffy's replacement. Committee members should note any declarations of interest now or at the relevant point during today's proceedings.

Item 2 on today's agenda, new petitions. Item 2.1, P-06-1291, 'Hold an enquiry into the corporate takeover of the veterinary profession in Wales'. The petition reads as follows:

'In 1999 legislation was changed by the UK Government which allowed veterinary practices to be owned not just by qualified veterinary surgeons. This paved the way for private equity stakeholder corporates to buy into this market. These profit driven organisations have changed the profession so that it is barely recognisable. In many parts of Wales, it is virtually impossible to find an independently run veterinary practice. The corporate buyout now extends to out of hours provision, referral practices as well as general practice. The corporates also own laboratories, drug companies, pet crematorium as well as shares in many pets’ food companies. Such a monopoly makes the few remaining independently run practices presence virtually untenable. From vet school to recruitment through to practice the corporates have the advantage. Set in this context their influence on bodies such as the RCVS and BVA is predicable.'

There is additional information available to members of the committee and also to members of the public in their packs and online. It was submitted by Dr Linda Evelyn Joyce-Jones with 308 signatures, and at this point I'd like to invite committee members to discuss this petition and any actions they may wish to take. I'll bring Luke Fletcher in.

Diolch, Gadeirydd. Looking at the issue of veterinary practices, there is a lot that's wrong in Wales at the moment. I'm aware, in my own region, how difficult it is for people to get their pet even registered with some veterinary practices. I'm going through that process right now as well, with my dog.

The issue we have as a committee, though, is that veterinary practices aren't devolved to the Welsh Government. I think the Minister noted that in her response to the petition. I don't think, though, that means that we shouldn't be looking into the matter. I know, if I take my Petitions Committee hat off for a moment and put my Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee hat on, that is something that has reared its head a couple of times in our own proceedings, and is something that I know is also on the forward work programme. So, I'm wondering if this is perhaps maybe more suitable for another committee to look at in depth.

I don't propose that we close the petition. I think we should write—my head says—to ETRA first, to ask what their plans are, see where they are at with that and then come back to this petition at a later time. But I think, because it's quite specialised, I think it would benefit more from a specialised committee looking into it than us as a Petitions Committee.

Diolch, Luke, for that suggestion. Are we all in agreement? Thank you. Item 2.2, P-06-1299, 'Welsh Government "Freeze on road building" to include a clause for cases that pose a danger to life'.

'The recent fire at Tylorstown Working Mens’ Club proved that the infrastructure in the Rhondda Fach needs urgent updating. With the main road blocked for several days, all traffic was diverted through side streets causing blockages and congestion. Schools had to be shut, public transport halted, school transport cancelled, people were unable to get to work and there was no accessible route for emergency vehicles.'

Again, there is additional information available, and this was submitted by Susan Blaney with 455 signatures. I would like to bring Members in at this point to discuss any actions the committee may wish to take. Joel James.

Thank you, Chair. This is a petition that's quite close to me. My family is from Tylorstown and I was well aware of the issues that happened there some time ago now. And I'm also conscious that it's been long promised to the community to have a relief road, and I think it is mentioned in the local development plan as well. But the only thing I'm conscious of is that until we know the outcome of that road review, I don't know what more we can do at the moment. So, with Luke's acceptance, I think we can put a pin in this and we'll hold it open until we get that review in, and then we can see what we can do about this matter then.

Thank you, Joel. Agreement from the committee?

Yes, I'll let Joel take the lead on that.

Okay, so we have agreement there to come back to committee and consider what actions we may wish to take on the publication of the final report of the roads review panel, and it may be that local Members to the area may wish to have their own views in the Senedd Chamber on that as well.

Okay, then, 2.3, P-06-1300, 'Review the decision allowing local authorities to increase council tax premiums on second homes to 300%'.

'I’m concerned that the significant contribution second homeowners make to the local economy have not been fully considered and explored in relation to this policy. Whilst appreciating that there is a challenge to ensure that there is affordable housing for local people, placing such a financial burden on second homeowners is not the answer.

'As second homeowners who spend every weekend in our second home, we feel part of the community and have been warmly welcomed.'

This has been submitted by David Smith, with 669 signatures, and again, I will bring committee members in to discuss this petition, looking to Luke Fletcher.

Diolch, Gadeirydd. Thinking about the whole debate about this particular point, it's well debated in the Chamber already. There have been numerous public consultations on this as well, where people have been able to air their views on the increase. The issue we have now is that the regulations have been agreed within the Senedd, and now this gives the powers to local authorities to deal with this issue directly, and because of that, I think, now, it's more worth while for people to petition their local authorities over us here in the Senedd. So, I would propose that we thank the petitioner for raising these concerns, and close the petition, as I don't feel that we have much more that we can do. I think, again, it's now more of a benefit to the petitioner to potentially go to his local authority.

Thank you, Luke. I'm in agreement with that. Joel.

Thank you, Chair. I agree with what the petitioner's been trying to do, really, and I don't support what the Welsh Government has done with regard to this, but as Luke has said, there's not much as a committee we can do now. It has been discussed quite a bit in the Chamber and I think that Luke's right in the sense that the onus is now on the local authorities and whether or not they actually bring it in; it's up to them if they wish to take—I don't want to say 'take advantage of this', but to bring that in. So, I think we just have to thank the petitioner, close it, and then maybe signpost him to pursue this with the local authorities.

Okay, thank you for that, Joel. As Members have said, this has been debated a lot. Other committees have also reported on this issue, and I think I'm right in saying that this was talked about quite heavily in the previous Senedd as well. So, we will thank the petitioner and, of course, encourage him and those who've signed this petition to reach out to their local authority representatives to air their views in their local authorities.

Item, 2.4 P-06-1302, 'Protect Mid-Wales' unique Cambrian Mountains: designate them an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty'.

'The Cambrian Mountains: endless open skies, outstanding biodiversity, spectacular hills and valleys, 5000 years' heritage of Welsh language, farming and mining. Their sense of immense space and peace is rare.

'Sadly, conservation of these uplands gets little attention. Farms are bought up for conifer planting or for large wind farms despite the lack of infrastructure.

'So beautiful a region needs protection AND longer term rural employment. Designate the Cambrians as Mid-Wales' first AONB!'

There is further information available to Members in the packs in front of them. It was submitted by Celia Brazell, with a total of 20,856 signatures—quite a significant number of signatures. There were 3,751 of them online and 17,285 signatures on paper. I believe there was quite a presence at the Eisteddfod this year, or so I'm told by friends who attended the Eisteddfod, who may or may not have signed this petition—I don't know, they didn't tell me. I'd like to bring Members in to discuss this petition then. Joel James.

Thank you, Chair. I can confirm that there was a huge presence by the group at the Eisteddfod and also the Royal Welsh, where they came up to me to sign it, and I said, 'Well, as I'm on the Petitions Committee, I don't think I can at the moment.' It's something I fully support, really, and, as you've mentioned, it's gone up to over 20,000 signatures. It's well above the threshold for a debate, and I'm definitely keen for that to happen, because it is something that could be influenced by us as a committee.

I note that Natural Resources Wales do have the powers to designate areas of outstanding natural beauty, and it would be good to try and get that debate prior to the fiftieth anniversary that's coming up, because, as you know, Chair, this was actually meant to be Wales's first thingummy—what's the word I'm looking for? 'National park'—the first national park, and it never happened, so I think it would be good to use that type of thing.

I imagine it's the first time it's been recorded, that 'thingummy' has been mentioned in the Petitions Committee. [Laughter.] Thank you.

Thank you, Joel. We'll certainly check the Record for that. So, there's been a proposal from Joel James to debate this petition—to make a request to Business Committee. I can see Luke in agreement there, I too am in agreement and I do think it would be good if we could do it before the end of the year. Obviously, that's not in our power, but we can make the case to Business Committee, given the historic anniversary of the fiftieth year since the plans were drawn up to make it Wales's first national park. So, we will certainly send that letter.

Okay. Item 3 on today's agenda: updates to previous petitions. Item 3.1, P-05-1106, 'Introduce Personal Health Budgets and Personalised Care in Wales'. This was submitted by Rhys Bowler, with 779 signatures. We've considered this petition a number of times in this committee now, but I would like to bring Members in to discuss any further action. Luke Fletcher.

Diolch, Gadeirydd.  I think it's important to note at the outset the importance of people having their own independence when they're facing the challenges that some of the individuals who are affected by this petition face. I think I noticed that the Deputy Minister has also recognised those concerns and the stuff that this petition is trying to achieve. I can see that there's been the establishment of the continuing healthcare direct payments working group, which I think is something to be welcomed. Their aim is going to be to co-produce future guidance and offer an update, and there's an offer of an update, then, as well, from the Deputy Minister. I think, actually, there's a lot that's going on in the background, so because of that I would like to propose that we keep it open until the Minister writes again. Given that there is a lot of work going on in the background, I think it would be right for us to maybe come back to this in about six months' time when the work is completed, unless, of course, the work is completed earlier or the Minister writes earlier. But I think keeping it open for the time being and seeing where it goes is our best option here.

Diolch, Luke. I can see Joel's in agreement with that, and I too am in agreement. Can I just place on the record as well that it's good to see Government Ministers actually wanting to really engage and proactively engaging with the Petitions Committee? I think it's important to recognise that. And we do, of course, welcome the opportunity for the Deputy Minister to return, and we look forward to her doing that.

Item 3.2, P-06-1163, 'Extend the postgraduate STEMM bursary to all MSc students in Wales', submitted by Rachel Wrathall, with 88 signatures. Again, we've considered this on a number of occasions. We also asked the Children, Young People and Education Committee to consider it in their Stage 2 consideration of the Tertiary Education & Research (Wales) Act 2022. I believe that this came to committee just last week and there was consensus of the committee to perhaps close the petition, seeing as we've taken it as far as we can. I'm in agreement with that. I would expect that the petitioner is, perhaps, disappointed with the outcome of this petition, and I might say that I am myself, as a former engineer, but this is as far as we can take this particular petition. So, I'm in agreement with the decision made by the committee last week, and I will press forward with that.

Item 3.3, P-06-1240, 'Improve health services for people with epilepsy living in Wales', submitted by Janet Paterson, with 1,334 signatures. And again, I'd like to bring committee members in to discuss this petition and any actions that they may wish to take at this particular time. Joel James. 

Thank you, Chair. I agree with the strength of feeling behind this petition—it's an extremely important one—but what I note from the notes is that we're still awaiting a response from Hywel Dda University Health Board and, obviously, that's disappointing, really. And so, I think, maybe, as a committee, we need to write back to them, probably in the strongest possible terms, for a response, and keep this open until we have that, then, and see what we can do going forward. 

Thank you, Joel. I can see that Luke's also in agreement; I too am in agreement. What a stark contrast that is from the welcomeness and the opportunities given to us from the Deputy Minister, and the engagement from the Welsh Government, but perhaps not so from Hywel Dda. So, I think we will write to them in the strongest words possible to ask them to engage with this committee. Let's not forget what we've said before: we are speaking about things that the people of Wales want to speak about, and we would like that to be taken seriously. Every other health board in Wales has responded, and I would expect, or certainly hope for a response from Hywel Dda University Health Board, and then we will review again.

I know that there's also been a report by Epilepsy Action Cymru; maybe we can share that with the Minister in advance and have a response ready for when we debate this next time. 

Thank you for the further recommendation, Joel. I can see Luke nodding in agreement with that as well. We will share that work—that good piece of work—done by Epilepsy Action Cymru and seek a response in the meantime. 

Item 3.4, P-06-1249, 'Provide a clinical pathway, medical care, and specialists for people with Tourette's syndrome in Wales.' This was submitted by Helen Reeves Graham, with 10,393 signatures. I do remember that we debated this petition back in May, and I think it was a good-spirited debate from all those who took part. There was commitment to develop a new national improvement programme for neurodevelopmental conditions, as outlined by the Deputy Minister, and that is a significant step forward, I think, in addressing some of the problems that this petition has raised, both in the conversations we've had and the other conversations we've had outside the petition. Following that announcement from the Deputy Minister, I think it's only right to congratulate the petitioner Helen, and all those who campaigned and signed this petition, and for those who've also campaigned for appropriate services for those with Tourette's over the years. So, we will say 'well done' to Helen and all those who have achieved this step forward—it's a good step forward—in Wales, and I think it's right that we close the petition on that basis. Agreement, we have. Okay.

Item 3.5, then, P-06-1276, 'Extend section 25B of the Nurse Staffing Levels Act (Wales) 2016', submitted by Richard Jones, with 10,572 signatures. Again, this petition was debated a couple of weeks ago now, and I do want to thank Buffy Williams for opening the debate on my behalf, and, of course, all those who contributed to that debate. It was clear from the number of signatures and how Members expressed themselves during their contributions, the strength of feeling among the public on this, and that has been noted again by the Royal College of Nursing. Although they do not believe that the outcome of the petition has been a great success, they think the process of the committee has been a great success, so on that note, I think it's probably as far as we can take it now, given the fact that we've debated it with the Minister's response in the Senedd Chamber. All that we can do now is wish RCN well with their future campaigns, thank them for engaging with our process and close the petition. Do Members agree? They do. Excellent.

Well, that does conclude public business today. We'll go into private session to discuss our forward work programme. Can I thank Members? I think that is record timing this afternoon, but I know we've all got busy days to go back to. 

So, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(ix), can I propose that the committee does resolve to meet in private for the remainder of the meeting? We have agreement. Okay, thank you. Thank you to all those watching, and the clerking team and the background team for facilitating today's meeting. We'll be back on 7 November, and, of course, we have a Senedd debate this Wednesday—an important Senedd debate coming up—so, watch this space with that one, too. Diolch yn fawr.