Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru

Bore da. Croeso. Good morning and welcome to this morning's meeting of the Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee here in the Senedd. The meeting, as always, is bilingual. Headsets provide simultaneous translation on channel 1 and amplification on channel 2. Participants online can access translation by clicking on the globe icon on Zoom. We've received apologies from committee members Tom Giffard and Rhianon Passmore. We welcome Sam Kurtz, who's here in place of Tom. I also understand that Adam Price is unable to be with us and that we will be joined by Cefin Campbell, who will be taking his place today. Do Members present have any declarations of registrable interest they wish to share or otherwise want on the record? Thank you.

We have a couple of papers to note. The first paper to note is on Gilestone Farm and the Welsh Government's response to our report. The Welsh Government has responded to our report, which made eight recommendations. It's accepted five of these, with the other three accepted in principle. They've accepted recommendations around reviewing arrangements on ministerial advice and around a review of the purchase process for Gilestone. They've provided further information about the pre-investment guidelines in place for purchases, the guidance on obtaining valuations and on the role of the Welsh Government's land division in the purchase process.

The Welsh Government has accepted in principle only a recommendation on informing the committee about further valuation for the land, stating this would need to be provided on a confidential basis. This is despite previous valuations, as regular Members will recall, being confirmed in public correspondence. The Welsh Government also provides an 'accept in principle' response to our recommendation on consultation arrangements, set out in our recommendations 2 and 3.

Members, do you have any comments on this correspondence or are you content to note this? There will be an opportunity for further discussion on our next steps regarding this in our private session later.

I have one comment to make on the valuation. We were told when it was bought that they bought it at current value. Two people know more about this than me, so please correct me, but farm land values have stayed fairly static for a period of time. They've been up and down, but fairly static, so they should be able to sell it at roughly the price that they paid for it now. Plus or minus 5 per cent I think would be acceptable. If they're getting less than that back, then obviously they paid over the odds. Can I just say, it wasn't a political decision? A politician didn't decide, 'This is how much we want to pay for it.' It was an administration decision, it was a civil servant decision, and the civil servants who came up with that valuation, who said it was right, need to be held to account if it proves to be not.

We can discuss this separately in private later, but the particular point noted here was the offer only to provide these valuations confidentially, when previously they'd be public, and whether we have a view on that.

I think that we could get a valuation, because there are valuers all the time valuing bits of land. We know how many acres it is, we know where it is. They should be able to do a quick calculation of what it's worth.

Well, I think the offer—. They stated they will provide the valuation, so they will tell us what valuations they have, but only confidentially. We can discuss that further.

I'm happy to discuss it further, but I think that what they can tell us is their methodology for valuation. That isn't confidential.

No. Any comments from anyone else? Welcome, Cefin Campbell.

Apologies for being slightly late. I've just left another meeting to come to this.

Thank you. I did explain that you were attending in place of Adam Price. Welcome. Croeso.

So, no further comments on this at this point. We'll pick up on this later.

In which case, we can move into private session. So, I propose, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(ix), that the committee resolves to meet in private for the remainder of today's meeting. Are Members content?