Y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus a Gweinyddiaeth Gyhoeddus

Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee


Aelodau'r Pwyllgor a oedd yn bresennol

Committee Members in Attendance

Mabon ap Gwynfor AS
Mark Isherwood AS
Mike Hedges AS
Natasha Asghar AS
Rhianon Passmore AS

Y rhai eraill a oedd yn bresennol

Others in Attendance

Mark Jeffs Archwilio Cymru
Audit Wales
Matthew Mortlock Archwilio Cymru
Audit Wales
Richard Harries Archwilio Cymru
Audit Wales
Seth Newman Archwilio Cymru
Audit Wales

Swyddogion y Senedd a oedd yn bresennol

Senedd Officials in Attendance

Fay Bowen Clerc
Joanne McCarthy Ymchwilydd
Lisa Hatcher Dirprwy Glerc
Deputy Clerk

Cofnodir y trafodion yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y pwyllgor. Yn ogystal, cynhwysir trawsgrifiad o’r cyfieithu ar y pryd. Lle mae cyfranwyr wedi darparu cywiriadau i’w tystiolaeth, nodir y rheini yn y trawsgrifiad.

The proceedings are reported in the language in which they were spoken in the committee. In addition, a transcription of the simultaneous interpretation is included. Where contributors have supplied corrections to their evidence, these are noted in the transcript.

Cyfarfu’r pwyllgor yn y Senedd a thrwy gynhadledd fideo.

Dechreuodd y cyfarfod am 09:15.

The committee met in the Senedd and by video-conference.

The meeting began at 09:15.

1. Cyflwyniad, ymddiheuriadau a dirprwyon
1. Introductions, apologies and substitutions

Bore da a chroeso. Good morning and welcome to today's meeting of the Senedd Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee. No apologies for absence have been received. I understand that that's still the case. Thank you very much indeed. Do Members have any declarations of registerable interests that they wish to make or declare? Thank you. I remind members of the public that Members' interests are already declared on the public register, should they wish to check them. 

2. Papurau i'w nodi
2. Papers to note

We have some papers to note. Members will note letters from the Minister for Finance and Local Government further to recent questions raised by both this committee and the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee on the supplementary legislative consent motions Nos. 3 and 4 on the UK Procurement Bill. Supplementary legislative consent motion No. 5 was laid before the Senedd on 6 February this year. This has been referred to this committee with a reporting deadline for both this and the previous legislative consent motions on this Bill of 13 March 2023. Members will be receiving a legal briefing on legislative consent motion No. 5 at our meeting on 2 March. Do Members wish to comment on the letters, or simply to note them for now? 

Thank you very much indeed. There's a letter from the Permanent Secretary regarding the tailored review programme. He responded to our letter dated 9 January, which noted concerns regarding the considerable delay in finalising the programme of the tailored review, and requested clarification on the reasons for the change in the time frame. Members will note from the response that concerns are shared by the Permanent Secretary, who advises that measures have been implemented to strengthen governance, maintain oversight and ensure sign-off for both the tailored review programme and the guidance for Wales to be led by the chief operating officer, Tim Moss.

Members may also recall that the letter of 9 January acknowledged that an interim report would not be shared with the committee on the tailored review in relation to the National Museum for Wales, despite concerns highlighted by the Auditor General for Wales on governance arrangements. The committee has requested a copy of the report once the full review concludes on St David's Day, 1 March. So, at this point, could I invite officials from Audit Wales to comment? 

Thank you, Mark. No particular comments at this stage to add to what you said, but I think there are some issues arising from the letter that you can pick up in your accounts scrutiny sessions in March. So, my advice would be to follow it up with the Permanent Secretary as part of that scrutiny in the coming weeks. 

Thank you. Do Members have any comments, or are they content to follow that advice, or do you wish to revisit scrutiny in any area of this on a different timescale? 

3. Cynnig o dan Reol Sefydlog 17.42 i benderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o'r cyfarfod ar gyfer y busnes a ganlyn:
3. Motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the meeting for the following business:


bod y pwyllgor yn penderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.42.


that the committee resolves to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting in accordance with Standing Order 17.42.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

I now propose that, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(ix), the committee resolves to meet in private for items 4 and 5 for the remainder of today's meeting. Are all Members present content? Thank you. The clerk will now change the setting from public to private, and once that is visible we'll allow 10 seconds before the meeting continues. 

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Daeth rhan gyhoeddus y cyfarfod i ben am 9:19.

Motion agreed.

The public part of the meeting ended at 9:19.