Y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus a Gweinyddiaeth Gyhoeddus

Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee


Aelodau'r Pwyllgor a oedd yn bresennol

Committee Members in Attendance

Mark Isherwood AS Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor
Committee Chair
Natasha Asghar AS
Rhianon Passmore AS
Rhys ab Owen AS

Y rhai eraill a oedd yn bresennol

Others in Attendance

Adrian Crompton Archwilydd Cyffredinol Cymru
Auditor General for Wales
Dave Thomas Archwilio Cymru
Audit Wales
Matthew Mortlock Archwilio Cymru
Audit Wales
Verity Winn Archwilio Cymru
Audit Wales

Swyddogion y Senedd a oedd yn bresennol

Senedd Officials in Attendance

Fay Bowen Clerc
Jennifer Cottle Cynghorydd Cyfreithiol
Legal Adviser
Owain Davies Ail Glerc
Second Clerk
Rhun Davies Ymchwilydd

Cofnodir y trafodion yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y pwyllgor. Yn ogystal, cynhwysir trawsgrifiad o’r cyfieithu ar y pryd. Lle mae cyfranwyr wedi darparu cywiriadau i’w tystiolaeth, nodir y rheini yn y trawsgrifiad.

The proceedings are reported in the language in which they were spoken in the committee. In addition, a transcription of the simultaneous interpretation is included. Where contributors have supplied corrections to their evidence, these are noted in the transcript.

Cyfarfu’r pwyllgor yn y Senedd a thrwy gynhadledd fideo.

Dechreuodd y cyfarfod am 09:19.

The committee met in the Senedd and by video-conference.

The meeting began at 09:19.

1. Cyflwyniad, ymddiheuriadau a dirprwyon
1. Introductions, apologies and substitutions

Bore da. Croeso, bawb. Good morning and welcome, everybody, to the meeting of the Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee. We've had apologies from one Member. Is that correct or—?

Mike Hedges, yes. And Rhianon Passmore will be joining us at around 9.30 a.m. Do Members have any declarations of registrable interest they wish to declare that aren't already on the public record? Thank you. Please note that headsets are available in the room for translation and sound amplification, with translation on channel 1 and amplification on channel 0. Please make sure that, if you have any electronic devices, they're on silent, and note that in the event of an emergency, an alarm will sound and ushers will direct everybody to the nearest safe exit and assembly point.

2. Papurau i'w nodi
2. Papers to note

We have a couple of papers to note, the first being a letter from the Chief Executive and Clerk of the Senedd on recommendation 1 made in this committee's report on the scrutiny of accounts 2020-21. Further to the letter, dated 2 February, responding to our report on the scrutiny of Senedd Commission accounts 2020-21, we've received a final update in relation to recommendation 1 of our report. The recommendation asked that, in advance of annual scrutiny of the accounts, the Commission provide us with details summarising and collating underspends and setting out any decision taken to reallocate any underspends. The Commission has also provided us, helpfully, with details outlining the financial implications of the pandemic on the outturn of this information, and this information has been shared with the Finance Committee. We'll be scrutinising the Senedd Commission accounts in the autumn term as normal. Are Members content to note the contents of this letter or are there any issues you wish to seek further clarification on ahead of our scrutiny of the Commission accounts in the autumn?


Thank you very much, both. The second item to note is a letter from the Chief Executive and Clerk of the Senedd on recommendation 3 in the committee's report on the scrutiny of accounts 2020-21. The Commission has also provided a further update to recommendation 3 contained in our report published in December. Recommendation 3 was accepted by the Commission, and we were previously advised that since April 2021, socioeconomic data has been included within the Commission's recruitment processes to provide an understanding of the socioeconomic diversity of the applicant pool. The information was to be reviewed alongside the Commission's annual diversity and inclusion reporting mechanisms in June 2022. The letter updates us on progress in responding to the different components of recommendation 3, which were addressed in turn in the annex provided. We've also been provided with full copies of 2021-22 equality data monitoring and annual reports, which were published last week. Do Members have any matters they wish to raise regarding this or are they content to note the contents of the letter?

Thank you very much indeed. The committee had been scheduled to take evidence from Welsh Government officials in March on NHS Wales escalation and intervention arrangements. Because officials were unable to attend, the committee agreed that I write with a number of questions on these arrangements. On consideration of this response, Members agreed to consider whether the session should be rearranged in the autumn term. The committee may wish to consider taking further evidence from the Welsh Government on some of these matters during the autumn term when it also intends to revisit related issues concerning Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board. Are Members content to note the contents of this letter? Thank you very much indeed.

3. Cynnig o dan Reol Sefydlog 17.42 i benderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd
3. Motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public


bod y pwyllgor yn penderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o eitemau 4 i 7 o’r cyfarfod hwn ac eitemau 1 i 3 o’r cyfarfod ar 14 Gorffennaf yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.42(ix).


that the committee resolves to exclude the public from items 4 to 7 of this meeting and items 1 to 3 of the meeting on 14 July in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(ix).

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

I now propose in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(ix) that the committee resolves to meet in private for the remainder of today's meeting and the start of our meeting next week on 14 July. Are all Members content? I note that Members are content. I'd be grateful, therefore, if we could move into private session.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Daeth rhan gyhoeddus y cyfarfod i ben am 09:24.

Motion agreed.

The public part of the meeting ended at 09:24.