Y Pwyllgor Deddfwriaeth, Cyfiawnder a’r Cyfansoddiad

Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee


Aelodau'r Pwyllgor a oedd yn bresennol

Committee Members in Attendance

Alun Davies
Huw Irranca-Davies Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor
Committee Chair
Rhys ab Owen
Tom Giffard Yn dirprwyo ar ran James Evans
Substitute for James Evans

Swyddogion y Senedd a oedd yn bresennol

Senedd Officials in Attendance

Claire Fiddes Dirprwy Glerc
Deputy Clerk
Craig Griffiths Cynghorydd Cyfreithiol
Legal Adviser
Gerallt Roberts Ail Glerc
Second Clerk
Josh Hayman Ymchwilydd
Kate Rabaiotti Cynghorydd Cyfreithiol
Legal Adviser
Lucy Valsamidis Ymchwilydd
P Gareth Williams Clerc
Philip Lewis Ymchwilydd
Sarah Sargent Ail Glerc
Second Clerk

Cofnodir y trafodion yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y pwyllgor. Yn ogystal, cynhwysir trawsgrifiad o’r cyfieithu ar y pryd. Lle mae cyfranwyr wedi darparu cywiriadau i’w tystiolaeth, nodir y rheini yn y trawsgrifiad.

The proceedings are reported in the language in which they were spoken in the committee. In addition, a transcription of the simultaneous interpretation is included. Where contributors have supplied corrections to their evidence, these are noted in the transcript.

Cyfarfu’r pwyllgor drwy gynhadledd fideo.

Dechreuodd y cyfarfod am 13:30.

The committee met by video-conference.

The meeting began at 13:30. 

1. Cyflwyniad, ymddiheuriadau, dirprwyon a datgan buddiannau
1. Introductions, apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest

Prynhawn da a chroeso i chi i gyd.

Good afternoon and welcome to you all.

Good afternoon and welcome to everybody who is joining us in this virtual meeting of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee. We are fully quorate today, with all Members here, although we do have one set of apologies. James Evans can't be with us today, so we're delighted to have Tom Giffard attending as a substitute. Thanks for joining us, Tom, and we, as well as welcoming you, hope you enjoy the proceedings this afternoon here on the committee.

So, just a reminder to everybody, we're being broadcast live on Senedd.tv. As per normal, the Record of Proceedings transcript will be published afterwards. Apart from the procedural adaptations for doing this in a virtual setting, all the other Standing Order requirements remain in place. So, if you can just make sure that all your mobile devices are switched to silent. We're operating through the mediums of Welsh and English today, and we have interpretation on screen for Members. The sound operator is controlling the microphones, so there's no need to mute and unmute yourselves. So, with those housekeeping notes, we'll go on to our first substantive item.

2. Offerynnau nad ydynt yn cynnwys unrhyw faterion i’w codi o dan Reol Sefydlog 21.2 neu 21.3
2. Instruments that raise no reporting issues under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3

And that's item No. 2, which, as per normal, is instruments that raise no reporting issues under Standing Order 21.2 and 21.3. We begin there with item 2.1, which is SL(6)210, the Cancellation of Student Loans for Living Costs Liability (Wales) Regulations 2022. This is to do with provision for students who receive a living-cost loan from Welsh Ministers for the 2022-23 academic year, in respect of a full-time undergraduate course, to benefit from a reduction in the balance of their loan up to £1,500 when they start repayments. Our lawyers have not identified any points for reporting on this one, so I'll just ask colleagues are you happy to confirm your agreement with the draft report. You are, yes. Thank you very much for that. No points on that.

3. Offerynnau sy’n cynnwys materion i gyflwyno adroddiad arnynt i’r Senedd o dan Reol Sefydlog 21.2 neu 21.3
3. Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3

So, we'll go on to item No. 3, which is instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under those Standing Orders, 21.2 or 21.3. We begin here with item 3.1, which is SL(6)212, the Education (Information About Individual Pupils) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2022. This is a made negative resolution instrument amending the Education (Information About Individual Pupils) (Wales) Regulations 2007 to add the Universities and Colleges Admissions Service—UCAS, as we know it—to the list of prescribed persons. This will allow Welsh Ministers to share the free-school-meals data of school leavers with UCAS to help ensure that offers to disadvantaged learners are made to disadvantaged learners and to widen participation in higher education. Our lawyers have identified one merits point for reporting. So, I'd like to bring our legal expert in here, please.

Thank you. We've identified one merits point, which is the lack of a formal consultation. The explanatory memorandum states that the amendment was deemed urgent because universities will need the data for the clearing and confirmation process in August, but the explanatory memorandum does not explain why the regulations became urgent, and could they not have been made sooner in anticipation of the August clearing process? We're awaiting a response from the Welsh Government.

So, we're awaiting a response at the moment. Will that be brought back to us, then?

Yes, when we've received the response.

Okay. So, with that, knowing that we've got the response awaited, are we happy to agree those reporting points for today? We are. Okay. Thank you very much for that.

That will take us, then, on to item 3.2, again to notify the Senedd. We've got SL(6)214, the Health Protection (Notification) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2022. We've got a draft report and a letter in your papers. These regulations amend the Health Protection (Notification) (Wales) Regulations 2010 by adding monkeypox to the list of diseases and syndromes for which there is a duty upon medical practitioners to notify a relevant local authority if a patient they are attending is believed to have such a disease or syndrome, and also adding monkeypox virus to the list of causative agents for which there is a duty upon operators of diagnostic laboratories to notify a relevant local authority if they identify an agent or evidence of such an agent in a human sample. Our lawyers have identified two merits points for reporting. We're back to you.


Thank you. The first point notes the breach of the 21-day rule and the explanation provided in the Minister's letter to the Llywydd that it was necessary to respond to the outbreak of monkeypox in the UK. The second point notes that no formal consultation took place in relation to these regulations and the justification in the explanatory memorandum is that the amendment affects a small number of individuals and does not reflect a change in policy. And we've not requested a response on that.

Okay, that's great. Thank you for that. Any comments, or are we happy to agree those reporting points? We are. Okay, thank you very much. So, we'll go on to item 3.3, an affirmative resolution instrument: SL(6)213, the Welsh Language Standards (No. 8) Regulations 2022. And we've got a draft report in our pack there. These regulations specify standards of conduct in relation to the Welsh language for healthcare regulators listed in Schedule 6 to the Welsh Language (Wales) Measure 2011. We've got one merits point that you've identified for us.

Yes, that's correct. The merits point notes that there is an incorrect cross-reference in each of the Schedules when it refers back to the regulation introducing that Schedule. So, for example, Schedule 1 is introduced by regulation 2.1, but Schedule 1 itself refers to regulation 3.1. And we've also noted that the same error appears in regulation 3 itself. We've asked for a response on that. 

That's brilliant. Thank you for that. Okay. So, with those reporting points, are we happy to agree that? We are. Thank you very much. That's really good.

4. Fframweithiau cyffredin
4. Common frameworks

So, we move on, then, to item No. 4. It's a regular item on our agenda for this committee, which is common frameworks. Within this, we have one item today, item 4.1, where we have a letter from the Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee to the Minister for Economy and the Minister for Finance and Local Government, which sets out the committee's views and recommendations on the late payment and procurement provisional common frameworks. Now, if you want to, we can return to this in private, but, otherwise, we can simply note this for now if committee members are happy. We are, yes. Okay. So, we can note that.

5. Cytundeb cysylltiadau rhyngsefydliadol
5. Inter-institutional relations agreement

That takes us on to another regular item, item 5, the inter-institutional relations agreement. We have paper 7 there, under item 5.1, where we have a letter from the Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales, and Trefnydd clarifying the procedure under which the Animal Welfare (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2022 were made. The committee noted a letter of 9 May, which stated that the Minister had given consent for the UK Government to make the regulations and implied that they were to be made under the negative procedure. Now, this letter clarifies that they were, instead, made under the affirmative procedure, so there's a point of clarification there. Are we happy to note that? We are. Thank you very much.

6. Papurau i’w nodi
6. Papers to note

That brings us, then, on to some papers to note under item No. 6. First of all, 6.1, and we have the written statement by the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution providing the Welsh Government's view on the UK Government Bill of Rights, and we also have a letter from the Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice, which provides an overview of the Bill. Now, it may be that we'll want to return to this in private session, but are we happy to note that for the moment? We are. Okay.

And then we go on to item 6.2. We have a letter to the First Minister of Wales from Wales Environment Link, Healthy Air Cymru and Greener UK, and it's been copied to the committee, so that's why we bring it to your attention today. This letter, out of interest, calls on the Welsh Government to bring forward legislation to establish statutory targets for nature's recovery, alongside an independent body to hold public authorities to account on their environmental commitments. Now, you'll probably be aware that legislation on environmental governance was referred to in a report of the committee's back in September 2021 about the Welsh Government's legislative consent memoranda on the UK Environment Bill, hence why it's of relevance to us, regardless of the policy intent and implications. Again, we might want to return to this, but are we happy to note that for now? We are.

7. Cynnig o dan Reol Sefydlog 17.42 i benderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod
7. Motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting


bod y pwyllgor yn penderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.42(vi).


that the committee resolves to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(vi).

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

That takes us, then, very quickly, to item 7, which is the motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting. Are we happy to go into private, colleagues? We are. So, we'll go into private and we'll just wait for confirmation from the clerking team that we're in private session.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Daeth rhan gyhoeddus y cyfarfod i ben am 13:41.

Motion agreed.

The public part of the meeting ended at 13:41.