Pwyllgor Diwylliant, Cyfathrebu, y Gymraeg, Chwaraeon, a Chysylltiadau Rhyngwladol
Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
29/09/2021Aelodau'r Pwyllgor a oedd yn bresennol
Committee Members in Attendance
| Alun Davies | |
| Carolyn Thomas | |
| Delyth Jewell | Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor |
| Committee Chair | |
| Hefin David | |
| Heledd Fychan | |
| Tom Giffard | |
Y rhai eraill a oedd yn bresennol
Others in Attendance
| Aled Roberts | Comisiynydd y Gymraeg |
| Welsh Language Commissioner | |
| Bethan Webb | Dirprwy Gyfarwyddwr, Y Gymraeg, Llywodraeth Cymru |
| Deputy Director, Welsh Language, Welsh Government | |
| Dyfan Sion | Cyfarwyddwr Strategol, Comisiynydd y Gymraeg |
| Strategic Director, Welsh Language Commissioner | |
| Gwenith Price | Cyfarwyddwr Strategol, Comisiynydd y Gymraeg |
| Strategic Director, Welsh Language Commissioner | |
| Jeremy Miles | Gweinidog y Gymraeg ac Addysg |
| Minister for Education and the Welsh Language | |
| Owain Lloyd | Cyfarwyddwr y Gymraeg ac Addysg, Llywodraeth Cymru |
| Director of Education and Welsh Language, Welsh Government |
Swyddogion y Senedd a oedd yn bresennol
Senedd Officials in Attendance
| Aled Evans | Cynghorydd Cyfreithiol |
| Legal Adviser | |
| Lleu Williams | Clerc |
| Clerk | |
| Martha Da Gama Howells | Ail Glerc |
| Second Clerk | |
| Nia Moss | Ymchwilydd |
| Researcher | |
| Osian Bowyer | Ymchwilydd |
| Researcher | |
| Robin Wilkinson | Ymchwilydd |
| Researcher | |
| Rhun Davies | Ymchwilydd |
| Researcher |
Cynnwys
Contents
Cofnodir y trafodion yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y pwyllgor. Yn ogystal, cynhwysir trawsgrifiad o’r cyfieithu ar y pryd. Lle mae cyfranwyr wedi darparu cywiriadau i’w tystiolaeth, nodir y rheini yn y trawsgrifiad.
The proceedings are reported in the language in which they were spoken in the committee. In addition, a transcription of the simultaneous interpretation is included. Where contributors have supplied corrections to their evidence, these are noted in the transcript.
Cyfarfu’r pwyllgor drwy gynhadledd fideo.
Dechreuodd y cyfarfod am 09:31.
The committee met by video-conference.
The meeting began at 09:31.
Bore da. Hoffwn groesawu'r Aelodau i'r cyfarfod hwn o'r Pwyllgor Diwylliant, Cyfathrebu, y Gymraeg, Chwaraeon, a Chysylltiadau Rhyngwladol. Yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 34.19, rwyf wedi penderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd rhag ddod i gyfarfod y pwyllgor er mwyn diogelu iechyd y cyhoedd. Mae'r cyfarfod hwn yn cael ei ddarlledu'n fyw ar Senedd.tv, gyda'r holl gyfranogwyr yn ymuno trwy fideo gynhadledd. Os ydw i'n gadael y cyfarfod am unrhyw reswm, mae'r pwyllgor wedi cytuno y bydd Heledd Fychan yn cadeirio dros dro tra byddaf fi'n ceisio ailymuno. Oes gan unrhyw Aelodau fuddiannau i'w datgan, plis? Heledd.
Good morning. I'd like to welcome Members to this meeting of the Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee. In accordance with Standing Order 34.19, I have determined that the public are excluded from attending the committee's meeting in order to protect public health. The meeting however is being broadcast live on Senedd.tv, with all participants joining via video-conference. If for any reason I drop out of the meeting, the committee has agreed that Heledd Fychan will temporarily chair whilst I seek to rejoin. Does any Member have any declarations of interest? Heledd.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Mae gen i dri buddiant i'w datgan. Yn gyntaf, dwi'n gynghorydd ar Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Rhondda Cynon Taf. Ar dudalen 4 o dystiolaeth y Gweinidog, mae yna gyfeiriad at 'Ysgol Gyfun Gymraeg Evan James'; Ysgol Gynradd Gymraeg Evan James yw hynny. Dwi'n llywodraethwraig yn yr ysgol honno, ac mae fy mab yn mynychu'r ysgol. Yn adroddiad Comisiynydd y Gymraeg i ni, mae yna hefyd gyfeiriad at ad-drefnu ysgolion Pontypridd a'r judicial review yn y fan honno. Mi oeddwn i'n rhan o'r ymgyrch leol a oedd yn cefnogi'r judicial review hwnnw. Felly, jest eisiau nodi hynny ar ddechrau'r cyfarfod.
Thank you very much. I have three interests to declare. First of all, I am a councillor on Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council. On page 4 of the Minister's evidence, there is reference to 'Ysgol Gyfun Gymraeg Evan James'; it should be 'Ysgol Gynradd Gymraeg Evan James', where I'm a governor and my son is a pupil at the school. In the Welsh Language Commissioner's report, there is also reference to the reorganisation of schools in Pontypridd and the judicial review there. I was part of the campaign on a local level that supported that judicial review. So, I just wanted to put that on the record.
Diolch, Heledd. Wel, os nad oes gan unrhyw—. O, Carolyn hefyd. Ac mi wnaf i ddod at Tom wedyn. Carolyn.
Thank you, Heledd. Well, if no-one else has any—. Oh, Carolyn as well. And I'll come to Tom next. Carolyn.
I am a councillor at Flintshire County Council.
Diolch, Carolyn. Tom.
Thank you, Carolyn. Tom.
Dwi'n gynghorydd ym Mhen-y-bont.
I'm a councillor in Bridgend.
Diolch am hynna. Grêt.
Thank you very much.
Mi wnawn ni symud ymlaen nawr at eitem 2, sef sesiwn i graffu ar waith Gweinidog y Gymraeg ac Addysg. Croeso mawr i'r sesiwn yma y bore yma. Allwch chi plis gyflwyno eich swyddogion, Jeremy, i ni ar gyfer y sesiwn?
We'll move on therefore to item 2, the ministerial scrutiny session with the Minister for Education and the Welsh Language. A warm welcome to this session. If you could please introduce your officials to us, Jeremy.
Mae gyda ni Owain Lloyd a Bethan Webb, sydd yn uwch-swyddogion yn is-adran y Gymraeg.
I'm joined by Owain Lloyd and Bethan Webb, who are senior officials in the Welsh language division.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Croeso mawr i chi atom ni heddiw. Byddwn ni yn brin iawn o amser ac mae yna lot fawr iawn o bethau rŷn ni eisiau eu codi gyda chi, felly buaswn i'n erfyn ar y cychwyn am gynildeb neu fyrder—os yw hwnna'n air—gyda chwestiynau, ond hefyd gydag atebion, plis.
I droi'n syth felly at y cwestiynau, roeddwn i eisiau gofyn i chi, Weinidog, am rywbeth sydd wedi bod yn bwnc eithaf llosg, sef y ffaith na fydd y pas brechlyn ar gael yn Gymraeg. Ydy hynna'n codi unrhyw bryder i chi o ran hynny?
Thank you very much. A warm welcome to you all. We are short of time and we have a number of areas that we want to cover, so I would urge you to be brief, if at all possible, with questions as well as responses.
If I could turn immediately to questions, I wanted to ask you, Minister, about something that has been a contentious issue, namely the fact that the vaccination pass won't be available in Welsh. Does that cause you any concerns?
Mae'r gwaith yn digwydd ar hyn o bryd er mwyn sicrhau bod hynny yn newid. Felly, bydd hi ddim yn sefyllfa fydd yn gyfredol yn hir iawn bellach. Felly, ar hyn o bryd, mae amryw o gamau yn cael eu cymryd cyn eich bod chi'n cael y pas. Mae'r cam cyntaf yn dechrau, wrth gwrs, ar wefan Llywodraeth Cymru ac mae hynny wrth gwrs yn Gymraeg. Yr ail gam yw'r log-in ar gyfer y gwasanaeth iechyd ym mhob rhan o'r Deyrnas Gyfunol. Mae hwnnw a'r camau ar ei ôl, ar hyn o bryd, yn Saesneg, ond mae gwaith yn digwydd i gael fersiwn ddwyieithog o'r rhan o'r wefan NHS dŷn ni'n ei defnyddio ar draws y Deyrnas Gyfunol a'r pas ei hunan. Felly bydd y ddau gam hynny ar gael ymhen rhyw bythefnos, dwi'n credu, yn y Gymraeg hefyd. Y rhan fydd yn cymryd yn hirach, yn anffodus, i sicrhau ei bod yn y Gymraeg hefyd yw'r rhan log-in, ond mae gwaith datblygu'n digwydd yn y maes hwnnw beth bynnag, fel ein bod ni'n creu log-in pwrpasol i Gymru. Ac felly bydd hwnna, wrth gwrs, pan fydd hwnna'n cael ei lansio, ar gael yn Gymraeg.
Work is ongoing at the moment to ensure that that changes. So, it won't be the position for too much longer. At the moment, a number of steps are taken before you get the pass. The first begins on the Welsh Government website, and that's available in Welsh of course. The second step is the log-in for the health service across the UK. At the moment, that step and those that follow it are available only in English, but work is ongoing in order to ensure that there is a bilingual version of that part of the NHS website that is used across the UK and the pass itself. So, those two final steps will be available in Welsh as well in around a fortnight, I believe. The part that will take longer, unfortunately, to provide bilingually is the log-in section, but there is some development work happening in that area anyway, so that we create a made-in-Wales log-in. And of course, when that is launched, it will be available in Welsh.
Diolch yn fawr iawn i chi am egluro hynny i ni. Gan symud ymlaen at bwnc gwahanol, o ran mynd i'r afael ag anghydraddoldebau a chefnogi nodau llesiant, byddech chi’n gallu rhoi tair enghraifft benodol i ni, o ran beth fydd eich adran yn ei wneud er mwyn mynd i’r afael â’r heriau hynny, plis?
Thank you for explaining that to us. Moving on to a different topic, in terms of tackling inequalities and supporting well-being goals, can you give us three specific examples of what your department will do in order to tackle those challenges?
Wel, un o’r nodau llesiant yw Cymru gyda diwylliant bywiog lle mae’r Gymraeg yn ffynnu, felly mae bron popeth rŷn ni’n ei wneud yn yr adran yn mynd i’r perwyl hynny. Beth rŷn ni eisiau ei weld, wrth gwrs, yw bod pawb yng Nghymru yn teimlo bod y Gymraeg yn perthyn iddyn nhw. Felly, mae hynny’n rhan sydd wir yn bwysig o’r gyfundrefn honno. Mae’r nod o sicrhau miliwn o siaradwyr ac, yn bwysig, dyblu defnydd hefyd ynghlwm wrth hynny, felly mae pob un o’r ymyraethau rŷn ni’n eu gwneud, mewn rhyw ffordd, yn cyfrannu tuag at y nod hwnnw.
Well, one of the well-being goals is Wales with a vibrant culture where the Welsh language prospers, so virtually everything we do in the department works to that end. What we want to see, of course, is that everyone in Wales feels that the Welsh language belongs to them. So, that's a hugely important part of that system. So, the aim of securing a million speakers and, importantly, doubling the use of the Welsh language is interrelated with that, so every intervention that we make, in some way, contributes to that target.
Diolch. Ac os oes yna unrhyw enghreifftiau penodol iawn dŷch chi eisiau tynnu sylw atyn nhw, naill ai nawr neu yn ysgrifenedig ar ôl y sesiwn, buaswn i'n falch iawn o allu eu cael nhw.
Thank you. And if there are any specific examples you'd like to highlight, either now or in writing following the session, we'd be delighted.
Mae bron popeth byddwn ni'n ei drafod heddiw yn mynd tua'r nod hwnnw.
Virtually everything we'll discuss today works towards that goal.
Iawn. Diolch yn fawr, Gweinidog.
Mi wnawn ni symud ymlaen yn syth felly at Tom Giffard, plis.
Thank you, Minister.
We'll move on immediately to Tom Giffard.
Diolch, Delyth. Good morning, everybody. Minister, I just wanted to ask you about the current impacts of COVID on the work you’re doing, particular on the network of partner organisations that support the Welsh language, and how you’re planning to mitigate them.
Mae'r impact wedi bod yn sylweddol. Mae'r gwaith rŷn ni'n ei wneud fel Llywodraeth, wrth gwrs, yn digwydd gydag ystod o bartneriaeth gydag amryw o fudiadau a sefydliadau ar draws Cymru ac, wrth gwrs, mae bron pob un, os nad pob un, wedi cael impact yn sgil COVID. Y llynedd yn benodol fe wnaeth fy rhagflaenydd, Eluned Morgan, gomisiynu un o is-grwpiau’r cyngor partneriaeth i edrych ar yr impact ar grwpiau cymunedol Cymraeg, er enghraifft—impact COVID ar y rheini. Wrth gwrs, mae’r dirwedd, y ffordd rŷn ni’n ymwneud gyda’n gilydd, wedi’i thrawsnewid gan COVID, ac mae lot o arloesi, wrth gwrs, wedi digwydd gan ein partneriaid ni yn y maes i allu darparu gwasanaethau a chefnogaeth i’n cymunedau ni mewn ffordd sy’n bwrpasol yn y cyd-destun newydd hwnnw. Ond beth sydd ei angen yn sicr, ac mae’r adroddiad hwnnw wedi’i gyhoeddi ac mae fy ymateb i iddo fe hefyd wedi’i gyhoeddi yn ystod yr haf—
The impact has been substantial. The work we do as a Government happens in partnership with a number of organisations and institutions across Wales, and virtually everyone, if not everyone, has been impacted by COVID. Last year, specifically, my predecessor, Eluned Morgan, commissioned a sub-group of the partnership council to look at the impact on Welsh language community groups, so that's the impact of COVID there. Of course, the landscape and the way we engage with each other has been transformed by COVID, and there's been a great deal of innovation by our partners in this area in order to provide services and support to our communities in a way that's meaningful in that new context. But what is needed most certainly, and that report has been published as has my response to it over the summer months—
Gweinidog, chi newydd fynd ar miwt. Chi'n ôl.
Minister, you've just been muted. You're back.
Ymddiheuriadau. Dwi ddim yn gwybod pam ddigwyddodd hynny. Mae'n amlwg angen gwneud dau beth, a dweud y gwir: sicrhau ein bod ni’n dal i gefnogi'r mudiadau i allu addasu yn sgil COVID, a hefyd, dwi’n credu, edrych ar fodel ychydig yn amgen i weithredu yn y dyfodol, ac yn y maes sefydliadau cymunedol symud i fodel o ymbweru cymunedol—rhywbeth fel community empowerment—lle mae gan y mudiadau rôl yn darparu capasiti yn y gymuned i bobl eraill allu defnyddio’r Gymraeg yn fwy aml. Felly, mae hynny’n rhan o’n hymateb ni fel Llywodraeth. Mae, wrth gwrs, ymateb ehangach yn yr adroddiad hwnnw a gyhoeddwyd yn yr haf.
Beth rŷn ni wedi hefyd gweld yng nghyd-destun COVID yw bod dull pobl o ymgymryd ac ymwneud gyda sut maen nhw’n dysgu Cymraeg wedi newid i raddau. Felly, cynyddodd ffigurau dysgu Cymraeg yn eithaf sylweddol wrth i’r ddarpariaeth symud ar-lein dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, a hefyd rŷn ni wedi bod, er enghraifft, yn rhedeg ymgyrchoedd i gefnogi rhieni i allu cynnal siwrnai ieithyddol eu plant nhw. Mae hynny wedi bod yn sialens, wrth gwrs, mewn amryw o gyd-destunau dros y cyfnod diwethaf. Ond rydw i hefyd yn moyn sicrhau yn y maes hwnnw bod yr arloesi rŷn ni wedi ei weld gyda rhai o’n partneriaid mwyaf yn cael ei gynnal mewn ffurf gwahanol. Rŷn ni wedi gweld yr Eisteddfod Amgen, rŷn ni wedi gweld Tafwyl yn symud ar-lein, felly mae amryw o bethau fanna hefyd. Dwi’n credu bod rôl o ryw fath i’r pethau hynny yn y dyfodol hefyd, bydden i’n meddwl.
Apologies, I'm not sure what happened there. Now, I will do two things. First of all to ensure that we continue to support organisations in adapting to COVID and also look at an alternative model of operation for the future. So, in terms of community organisations, we will move to a model of community empowerment where organisations have a role in providing capacity within the community so that others can use the Welsh language more often. So, that's part of our response as a Government. There's a broader response also to that report that was published in the summer.
What we've also seen in the COVID context is how people engage with learning Welsh—that's slightly changed too. So, the Welsh learning figures increased substantially as the provision moved online over the past year, and we've been running campaigns to support parents in supporting their children's linguistic journey, which has been a challenge, of course, in many contexts over recent times. But I also want to ensure in that area that the innovation that we've seen with some of our most important partners is maintained in different ways. We've seen the Eisteddfod Amgen, Tafwyl has gone online, so there are a number of developments there where they could retain that for the future perhaps in some way or another.
Thank you. You talked a bit there at the end about online learning and digital learning of Welsh. Do you think that provision is currently adequate, not only for children, but for adult learners as well?
Rwy'n credu bod cynnig digidol sylweddol iawn gyda ni. Yn y flwyddyn hon, er enghraifft, rŷn ni’n gwario dros £3 miliwn ar ddarparu adnoddau a rhyw £1 miliwn ychwanegol ar adnoddau dwyieithog, a bydd canran o’r rheini’n ddigidol, wrth gwrs. Rŷn ni’n bwriadu gweithio gyda’r rhwydwaith genedlaethol ym maes addysg, ac mae hynny’n paratoi’n system addysg ni ar gyfer y cwricwlwm newydd. Rhan o waith y rhwydwaith honno yw rhannu gwybodaeth ar gomisiynu cynnwys ac, wrth gwrs, bydd cynnwys digidol yn rhan o hynny. Ynghyd â hynny, mae gyda ni ddarpariaeth eang iawn ar Hwb—rhyw 240, rwy'n credu, o raglenni pwrpasol ar gyfer dysgwyr fanna. Felly, rwy'n credu bod ystod o bethau eisoes yn eu lle sydd yn sylweddol iawn. Ond eto, jest i ategu beth y gwnes i ei ddweud eiliad yn ôl, edrychwch ar waith y Ganolfan Dysgu Cymraeg Genedlaethol, er enghraifft, dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, symud eu gwaith ar-lein, mae'r ymateb i hwnnw wedi bod yn gadarnhaol iawn o ran ymestyn y cwmpas o bobl sy'n gallu dod i'r Gymraeg, cael cyfleoedd ehangach i ddysgu'r Gymraeg. Felly, mae hwnnw wedi bod yn ddiwygiad pwysig iawn, byddwn i'n ei ddweud. Maen nhw hefyd yn gwneud gwaith gyda Say Something in Welsh a Duolingo, er enghraifft, felly pethau eithaf arloesol, rwy'n credu, ar gyfer sicrhau mynediad i oedolion i wersi Cymraeg, hefyd.
I think the digital offer is very substantial. This year, for example, we are spending over £3 million in providing resources, and an additional £1 million on bilingual resources, so a percentage of that will be digital. We intend to work with the national network in education, and that prepares our education system for the new curriculum. Part of the work of that network is to disseminate information on commissioning content and, of course, digital content will be an important part of that. In addition to that, we have broad provision on Hwb—some 240 purpose-made programmes for learners there. So, I think that there are many things in place at the moment that are significant. But just to echo what I said a few moments ago, if you look at the work of the National Centre for Learning Welsh over the past year, as they moved their work online, the response to that has been very positive indeed in terms of extending the range of people who can access the Welsh language and Welsh-language classes. So, that has been a very important development, I would say. They're also working with Duolingo and Say Something in Welsh, so these are quite innovative steps in ensuring access for adults to Welsh-language lessons.
So, just to follow up on that, you spoke about the existing education sector and Hwb and these things, which I think covers the children aspect. I think you only mentioned Say Something in Welsh and Duolingo as provisions for adult learning, do you think that is, perhaps, adequate, or is there more?
Na, jest rhag ofn bod camddeall, mae gyda ni ganolfan ddysgu addysg i oedolion sydd yn gweithio gyda Say Something in Welsh a Duolingo, ond yn darparu ystod eang iawn o ddarpariaeth addysg i oedolion, a gwaith yn ganolfan sydd wedi symud ar-lein dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf i raddau helaeth iawn, a dyna lle rôn i'n pwysleisio mae'r arloesi a'r ehangu darpariaeth wedi digwydd. Gallwn ni rannu ffigurau gyda chi; maen nhw wedi cael eu cyhoeddi gan y ganolfan ddysgu—ffigurau ynglŷn â'r rhifau o bobl sydd wedi bod yn ymgymryd. Mae'r rhifau wedi cynyddu'n sylweddol iawn dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf.
No, just for clarification, we have a National Centre for Learning Welsh, which is working with Duolingo and Say Something in Welsh in providing a very broad of range provision, but there is a very broad range available. It's the work of that centre that's moved online over the past year to a great extent, and that's where I was emphasising that the innovation and the expansion in provision has taken place. We could share figures with you; they have been published by the centre, and they are figures on the numbers of people who have been learning, and those figures have increased substantially over the past 12 months.
Buasai hynny'n grêt, os ydych chi'n gallu.
That would be excellent, if you could share those numbers with us.
To what extent do you think those interventions and investments to increase the daily use of the Welsh language are having the desired effect?
Wel, beth rwyf eisiau—. Mae eich cwestiwn chi'n mynd i graidd fy mhrif flaenoriaeth i, os gallaf i ei ddodi yn y ffordd honno, sef bod pob ymyrraeth rŷn ni'n ei wneud fel Llywodraeth, a gofyn i'n partneriaid ei wneud hefyd, yn cynyddu defnydd y Gymraeg. Felly, chi'n gwybod, mae'r Gymraeg yn iaith fyw, mae'n iaith gymunedol, mae'n bwysig ein bod ni nid jest yn cynnal hynny, ond yn ehangu'r defnydd go iawn bob dydd. Felly, rwyf eisiau sicrhau bod pob peth rŷn ni'n ei wneud fel Llywodraeth yn cael ei asesu gyda'r llinyn mesur hwnnw.
Rwyf wrthi'n comisiynu darn o waith ar gynllun grantiau hyrwyddo'r Gymraeg i sicrhau ein bod ni'n edrych ar beth mwy y gallwn ni ei wneud yn y maes hwnnw i yrru defnydd o'r Gymraeg. Felly, bydd datganiadau pellach yn dod yn sgil hynny, ond y peth sydd wir yn bwysig yw edrych ar ganlyniadau yr ymyraethau. Rwy'n atebol i'r Senedd fel Llywodraeth ac fel Gweinidog, nid jest am yr hyn rŷn ni'n ei wario ar bethau, ond yr impact mae hynny'n ei gael: a ydy'r ymyraethau yma'n cael y canlyniadau rŷn ni'n eu disgwyl? Felly, dyna fy mhrif flaenoriaeth i.
Os edrychwch chi ar bethau fel siarter iaith a'r prosiect ARFer, sydd yn gweithio gyda'r gwyddorau ymddygiadol i hybu defnydd y Gymraeg mewn gweithleoedd, fel enghraifft, mae'r pethau yna wir yn cael impact, ond rwyf eisiau gyrru lens ehangach dros bob ymyrraeth rŷn ni'n ei wneud i sicrhau eu bod nhw'n gyrru defnydd yn y pen draw.
Well, your question goes to the very heart of my priorities, if I could put it in that way: that every intervention that we make as a Government, and ask our partners to make on our behalf, increases the use of the Welsh language. So, the Welsh language is a living language, a community language, and it's important that we not only support that, but expand the real daily usage of the language. So, I want to ensure that everything that we do as a Government is assessed against that yard stick.
I am currently commissioning a piece of work on the Welsh language promotion grants in order to ensure that we look at what else we can do in that area to drive use of the Welsh language. So, there will be further statements as a result of that, but what's truly important here is to look at the outcomes of those interventions. I'm accountable to the Senedd as Minister, not just on the expenditure that I make, but also the impact that that has: do these interventions have the results that we expect? So, that's my main priority.
If you look at things like the siarter iaith and the ARFer project, working with behavioural science to increase the use of the Welsh language in workplaces, for example, then those things really are having an impact, but I want to have a broader lens across all interventions to ensure that they do drive usage ultimately.
And—
Sori, jest i dorri ar draws am funud, Tom. O ran yr arolwg defnydd iaith, does dim cynnydd wedi bod ers yr arolwg diwethaf. Ydy hwnna'n peri gofid i chi?
If I could just cut in there, Tom. In terms of the language-use survey, there's been no increase in the last survey. Is that a cause of concern to you?
Wel, mae'r canlyniadau yn gyffredinol yn gadarnhaol yn yr arolwg hynny. Os edrychwch chi ar yr arolwg blynyddol, mae'r ffigurau siaradwyr Cymraeg wedi cynyddu'n sylweddol iawn. Fel rŷch chi'n gwybod, fel Llywodraeth, rŷn ni'n dibynnu ar ystadegau'r cyfrifiad fel rheini rŷn ni'n atebol iddyn nhw, achos maen nhw efallai'n fwy pwrpasol at y nod hwnnw. Ond hyd yn oed yn yr arolwg defnydd iaith, mae patrwm positif, ac yn yr arolwg blynyddol hefyd.
Well, the results generally are positive in that survey. If you look at the annual survey, the figures of Welsh speakers have increased substantially. As you know, as a Government, we rely on census statistics in terms of the statistics we're accountable for, because they are more meaningful in that sense. But even in the language-use survey, there is a positive pattern emerging, as there is in the annual survey.
Diolch. Sori, Tom, nôl atoch chi, os oes gennych chi unrhyw beth arall i'w ofyn.
Thank you. Sorry, Tom, back to you, if you have any further questions.
No, no problem. Just one final question from me on this. You mentioned there about workplace Welsh, so I wondered if you could tell me what the opportunities and challenges are that you think are presented by workplace Welsh, and in particular reference the public and private sector and how they might differ.
Wel, rwy'n credu bod amryw o sialensau. Y peth cyntaf i'w ddweud yw bod lot o arfer dda, so mae pethau y gallwn ni eu dysgu oddi wrth weithleoedd sydd yn gwneud gwaith da iawn yn y maes hwn. Cymerwch y safonau, er enghraifft. So, mae lot o lwyddiannau'r safonau wedi bod ym maes cynllunio'r gweithlu, hynny yw, sicrhau bod gweithlu ar gael sy'n darparu gwasanaethau i'r cyhoedd yn y Gymraeg. Felly, mae stwff da wedi digwydd fanna, rwy'n credu, sydd yn gallu dangos enghraifft i ni.
Rwyf hefyd yn moyn deall yn well, efallai, beth yw'r daith iaith mae sefydliadau yn y cyd-destun hwn sy'n ddarostyngedig i'r safonau—beth yw'r sialensau? Beth yw'r sialensau maen nhw'n eu hwynebu i ddarparu gwasanaethau yn y Gymraeg a'r sialensau gweithlu? Rwyf i wedi bod yn trafod hyn gyda'r comisiynydd yn ddiweddar i weld os bydd y comisiynydd yn barod i wneud darn o waith yn y maes hwnnw fel ein bod ni'n deall lle mae'r arfer da, deall mewn mwy o fanylder lle mae'r rhwystredigaethau a beth wedyn gallwn ni fel Llywodraeth ei wneud i gefnogi busnesau, i gefnogi mudiadau ar y siwrne hwnnw. Ond mae gyda ni eisoes ymyraethau penodol iawn fel Helo Blod, Helo Blod Lleol, sydd yn cefnogi busnesau—roeddech chi'n gofyn am y sector breifat—i ddarparu gwasanaethau ac ati yn y Gymraeg, felly mae pethau eisoes ar waith.
Well, I think there are a number of challenges. The first thing to say is that there is a great deal of good practice out there, so there are things that we can learn from workplaces that are already doing very good work in this area. If you look at standards, for example, much of the success of standards has been in workforce planning and ensuring that there is a workforce available to provide services to the public through the medium of Welsh. So, good things have happened there, which I think can be an exemplar for us.
I also want to better understand the language journey of institutions captured within standards. What are the challenges that they face in providing services through the medium of Welsh and what are the challenges for the workforce? I've been discussing this with the commissioner recently to see if he would be happy to do a piece of work in that area so that we understand where the good practice is and understand in more detail where the frustrations may be and then look at what we as a Government can do to support businesses and organisations on that journey. But we already have interventions such as Helo Blod and Helo Blod Lleol, which support businesses. You asked about the private sector, well, we're supporting businesses in providing services through the medium of Welsh, so there are things already in place.
Diolch am hwnna, Weinidog. Tom, os dŷch chi'n hapus, cyn inni symud ymlaen at Alun Davies, rwy'n meddwl yr oedd gan Heledd Fychan gwestiwn atodol.
Thank you for that, Minister. Tom, if you're happy, before we move on to Alun Davies, I think Heledd Fychan had a supplementary question.
Diolch, dim ond o ran effaith y pandemig. Yn amlwg, mi oedd yna bwyslais yn eich ymateb o ran y digidol a'r arlwy digidol. Un o'r cwestiynau sydd gen i ydy o ran effaith y pandemig ar y rheini heb fynediad i'r digidol ac os oes yna bryder gennych chi o ran yr effaith ar y Gymraeg yn yr ardaloedd hynny ac oes yna waith ymchwil yn mynd rhagddo i ddeall effaith y pandemig? Ac yn amlwg, rydyn ni'n dal yng nghanol y pandemig, dydy o ddim drosodd eto, ond i ddeall yr effaith hwnnw ar ardaloedd, efallai, lle dydy'r digidol ddim wedi bod yn opsiwn iddyn nhw.
Yes, just in terms of the impact of the pandemic, clearly, there was an emphasis in your response on digital. Now, one of the questions I have is on the impact of the pandemic on those who don't have access to digital and whether you have any concerns in terms of the impact on the Welsh language in those areas and is there any research ongoing in order to understand the impact of the pandemic. Clearly, we're in the midst of the pandemic, it's not over yet, but could we understand the impact of that on areas where digital perhaps hasn't been an option?
Wel, wrth gwrs, mae'r pethau roeddwn i'n eu disgrifio nawr yn enghreifftiau efallai o'r arloesi sydd wedi gorfod digwydd yn y maes digidol yn y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, ond mae'r adolygiad roeddwn i'n sôn amdano fe'n gynharach ar yr impact ar sefydliadau cymunedol—wrth gwrs, mae hynny'n rhan hollbwysig o hyn. Mae pobl wedi bod yn derbyn gwasanaethau a chefnogaeth wyneb yn wyneb gyda gwaith y mentrau iaith ac ati, felly mae'r dadansoddiad hwnnw eisoes wedi ei wneud a dyna oeddwn i'n sôn amdano fe yn gynharach am sut ŷn ni'n dysgu rhai o'r gwersi yn y flwyddyn ddiwethaf a symud i fodel efallai ychydig yn wahanol. Ond hefyd, rwy'n siŵr y gwnawn ni ddod ymlaen i siarad am hyn, beth oedd yn gwbl glir yng nghyd-destun COVID o'r cychwyn cyntaf oedd yr impact ar gymunedau, o bobl yn gweithio o adref, patrymau gwaith yn newid er enghraifft. Mae amryw o gyfleoedd, gyda llaw, i ni o ran y Gymraeg yn y datblygiad hwnnw, ond yn amlwg sialensau hefyd, ac rŷn ni wedi bod yn ymateb fel Llywodraeth i hynny dros yr haf, fel ŷch chi'n gwybod.
Well, of course, the things that we've described are examples of the innovation that's had to happen in digital over the past 12 months. But the review I mentioned earlier on the impact on community groups, of course, that's a crucially important part of that. People have been accessing support and services face to face with the work of the mentrau iaith, for example. So, that analysis has already been undertaken and that's what I mentioned earlier in terms of how we're learning some of the lessons of the past year and moving to a slightly different model. But also, and I'm sure we'll come on to discuss this, what was entirely clear in the COVID context from the outset was the impact on communities and people working from home, working patterns were changing. There are a number of opportunities for us in terms of the Welsh language, but there are also challenges, and we as a Government have been responding to that over the summer, as you know.
Diolch am hynny. Symud ymlaen at Alun Davies.
Thank you for that. We'll move on to Alun Davies.
Diolch yn fawr, a diolch i chi, Gweinidog. Roeddwn i'n croesawu eich penodiad. Mae'n anodd ambell waith fel cyn-Weinidog, wrth gwrs, dŷch chi'n gweld pwy bynnag sy'n eich dilyn chi a dwi wedi bod yn impressed gyda'r ffordd mi wyt ti wedi bod yn siarad ar ôl dy benodiad a chyn hynny hefyd. Dwi eisiau gofyn i ti, os caf i Jeremy, am dy farn am y strategaeth. Dwi wedi darllen y rhaglen waith mi wnest ti ei chyhoeddi ym mis Gorffennaf, mae'n rhaglen digon swmpus, so rwy'n cymryd dŷch chi heb gael lot o amser i ystyried hynny cyn iddi hi gael ei chyhoeddi ac rwy'n cymryd mi fyddi di yn dychwelyd ati hi yn ystod y flwyddyn yma. Ond pan wnes i lansio’r strategaeth a'r nod o greu miliwn o siaradwyr, roedd yna ddau beth wnes i eu lansio. Yn gyntaf, y targed, ac yn ail, y strategaeth. Ers i fi adael y swydd, mae'r Llywodraeth wedi cadw at y targed ond wedi gollwng y strategaeth wnes i ei lansio, a dwi'n siomedig iawn gyda hynny a dwi'n siomedig gyda'r ffordd mae'r polisi wedi datblygu yn ystod y rhai blynyddoedd diwethaf. Beth oedd dy farn di o'r strategaeth wnes i lansio a beth ydy'r gwendidau roeddet ti'n eu gweld yn y strategaeth?
Thank you, Chair and thank you, Minister. I welcomed your appointment. It's difficult, as a former Minister, when you see those succeeding you, but I have been impressed with the way in which you've been speaking following your appointment and prior to your appointment too. And I want to ask you, if I may, Jeremy, about your view of the strategy. I've read the work programme that you published in July, and it's a lengthy programme. I'm assuming you haven't had a great deal of time to consider that before its publication, and I assume that you will return to it over the next year, but when I launched the strategy and this aim of a million Welsh speakers, there were two things that I launched. First of all, the target itself, and secondly, the strategy. Now, since I've left post, the Government has retained the target, but dropped the strategy that I launched, and I'm very disappointed with that, and I'm disappointed with the way the policy has developed over the previous few years. What is your view of the strategy that I launched and what weaknesses do you see in the strategy?
Wel, yr hyn rwyf i eisiau sicrhau yw ein bod ni'n dal yn atebol am sicrhau ein bod ni'n cyrraedd y targed. Dyna'r prif nod sydd gyda fi fel Gweinidog, ac mae cyfle gyda ni yn hyn o beth, rwy'n credu, bod portffolios yr iaith Gymraeg ac addysg wedi dod at ei gilydd.
Well, what I want to ensure is that we remain accountable for delivering that target. That's the main aim that I have as Minister, and we have an opportunity here in that the education and Welsh language portfolios have come together.
Rwy'n cytuno â hynny.
I agree with that.
Mae hynny'n rhoi cyfleoedd newydd i ni i allu delio â rhai o'r ffiniau portffolios hynny sydd, wrth gwrs, fel ŷch chi'n gwybod, yn gallu bod yn sialens o bryd i'w gilydd. Felly, mae'r pwyslais, rwy'n credu, ar y system addysg yn bwysig iawn, mae'r pwyslais ar addysg gynnar yn bwysig iawn hefyd. Mae gennym ni amcanion, fel rŷn ni wedi gosod yn y rhaglen waith, sydd yn heriol yn y maes hwnnw. Ond, fel roeddech chi'n dweud o ran pan roeddech chi'n Weinidog, mae'r pwyslais ar hwnnw yn bwysig iawn o ran gyrru mynediad at y system addysg a gyrru'r gallu i drosglwyddo'r iaith yn hwyrach mewn bywyd. Mae'r cysylltiad addysgu yn y cyfnod hwnnw'n bwysig iawn. Felly, mae amryw o bethau, rwy'n credu, sy'n parhau o'r strategaeth honno, ac mae'n bwysig ein bod ni'n edrych, o bryd i'w gilydd, ar y cyfeiriad.
Mae amryw o adolygiadau wedi bod yn ddiweddar ar ddefnydd iaith, ac ati, felly mae'n dangos rhywfaint o gynnydd, ond fel rwy'n dweud, yr hyn rwy'n gweithio tuag ato fe yw sicrhau ein bod ni'n ymateb i ganlyniadau'r cyfrifiad. Pan gawn ni ganlyniad y cyfrifiad, rwy'n credu y bydd yn gyfle inni edrych eto ar lle ydyn ni o ran y llwybr a'r taflwybr, ac efallai bydd angen newid eto yn sgil hynny.
That gives us, perhaps, new opportunities to deal with some of the boundaries within portfolios that, as you know, can be challenging from time to time. So, I think the emphasis on education is very important. The emphasis on early years education is very important. We have challenges and targets, as we've set out in our work programme, but as you mentioned, when you were Minister, the emphasis on that is very important in driving access to the education system and allowing language transmission later in life. The linkages there are very important. So, there are a number of things that can be continued from that strategy. It's important that we do look from time to time at the direction of travel.
There have been a number of reviews recently on language use and so on, and it does show some progress. But, as I've said, what I'm working towards is to ensure that we respond to the census results. When we get those results, it'll be an opportunity for us to look again at where we are in terms of the pathway, and we may need to make changes as a result of that.
Y peth oedd wedi fy nharo i—. Diolch am hynny. Dwyt ti heb ateb y cwestiwn yn llawn, wrth gwrs, ond gwnaf i ddim mynd ar ôl hynny. Ond, yn y rhaglen gwaith, mae gen ti areas of action—rwy'n darllen hwn yn Saesneg yn fan hyn. Y gweithred cyntaf sydd yn fan hyn yw sefydlu a chefnogi comisiwn i gryfhau sefyllfa'r Gymraeg fel iaith gymunedol. Ac mi wyt ti, wrth ateb Tom, wedi sôn am yr iaith fel iaith gymunedol, a chryfder a phwysigrwydd hynny. Ond mi wyt ti'n gwybod o dy gefndir dy hunan, a dwi'n gwybod, ac mae pob un ohonon ni sy'n defnyddio'r Gymraeg yn gwybod, bod hynny ddim yn wir mewn mannau lle oedd hi'n arfer bod yn wir—bod yr iaith ddim yn iaith gymunedol mewn sawl man. Ac mae Cwm Tawe ac ardal Gŵyr yn rhan o'r ardal lle rŷn ni wedi colli'r Gymraeg fel iaith gymunedol. Felly, beth ydy gwaith y comisiwn yn mynd i fod? Pa fath o gomisiwn? Beth yw dy weledigaeth am y comisiwn ar hyn o bryd?
Thank you for that. You haven't answered the question in full, but I won't pursue it any further. But what struck me in the work programme is that you have areas of action—I'm reading this in English. The first area of action here is establishing and supporting a commission on the situation of the Welsh language as a community language. And, in response to Tom, you mentioned the language as a community language and the importance of that, but you know from your own background, and I certainly know—I think each and every one of us who uses the Welsh language knows—that that isn't the case in areas as it was in the past, and that the language isn't a community language any longer in many areas. And the Swansea valley and the Gower area are some of those areas where we've lost the language as a community language. So, what's the commission's role going to be? What's your vision for this commission?
Wel, mae gennym ni amryw o ymyrraethau—. Efallai caf fi sgwrs bellach gyda chi yng nghyd-destun Cwm Tawe; fel rhywun sy'n byw yn agos iawn iddo fe, dwi ddim cweit yn cytuno gyda beth rydych chi wedi ei ddweud yn y cyd-destun hwnnw, gyda llaw. Ond dyw'r darlun, wrth gwrs, ddim yn gytbwys ar draws Cymru. Mae'r polisi o ran y comisiwn, sef un o'r pethau y gwnaeth Simon Brooks argymell yn ei adroddiad e, yn rhan o becyn ehangach o ymyrraethau. Felly, dwi ddim yn dweud am eiliad mai comisiwn yw'r ateb i'r sialens, ond mae cael dealltwriaeth o'r impact economaidd ar y Gymraeg, impact patrymau socioeconomaidd ar y Gymraeg a'r cyd-destun ehangach yn bwysig i ni yn y cyd-destun hwn.
Mae'r ymyrraethau rŷn ni wedi bod yn eu trafod eisoes o ran cynllunio, o ran trethu, o ran cefnogaeth i'r system o ran perchnogaeth tai, ac ati—mae rhai o'r rheini'n ddigon heriol i'w delifro, fel rydych chi'n gwybod. Ond mae'n rhaid bod sail i hynny hefyd yn y dyfodol o ddealltwriaeth fwy manwl, buaswn i'n dweud, am rai o'r impacts hyn, er mwyn ein bod ni'n osgoi'r hyn sy'n risg eithaf sylweddol yn y maes hwn—ac mae Simon Brooks ei hun yn dweud hwn—sef y syniad yma o unintended consequences. Dyw'r ymyrraethau sydd efallai'n edrych yn fwyaf tebygol o gael yr ymateb cywir ddim wastad yn gwneud hynny. Felly, mae angen sicrhau ein bod ni'n osgoi hynny.
Well, we have various interventions—. Perhaps I could have a further conversation with you on the context of the Swansea valley, as one who lives very close to that area. But the picture isn't balanced across Wales, of course. The policy in terms of the commission, which is one of the things recommended by Simon Brooks in his report, is part of a broader package of interventions. So, I'm not saying for one second that the commission is the solution to the challenge, but having an understanding of the economic impact on the Welsh language, socioeconomic impacts and the broader context is important to us in this context.
The interventions that we've been discussing, in terms of planning, taxation, support for home ownership, and so on, some of those are quite challenging in terms of delivery, as you will know. But, there has to be a foundation for that in terms of having a deeper understanding of some of these impacts so that we avoid what is a substantial risk in this area—and Simon Brooks himself makes this point—namely this idea of unintended consequences. The interventions that look most likely to succeed don't always succeed. So, we need to avoid that.
Diolch am hynny. Mae hynny'n help mawr. Felly rydych chi'n gweld y comisiwn yma fel sefydliad cynllunio iaith.
Thank you for that. That's a great help. So, you see this commission as a language planning body.
Dwi ddim yn ei weld e fel sefydliad; dwi'n ei weld e fel grŵp o bobl sy'n mynd i'n cynghori ni. Dwi ddim yn gweld sefydliad gydag adeilad—
No, I see it as a group of people who will advise us. I don't see it as an institution with a building, as such—
Wel, pa bynnag iaith rydyn ni'n defnyddio—grŵp o bobl sy'n cynllunio iaith.
Well, yes, that's semantics—a group of people doing language planning.
Mae'n gyfraniad at hynny, yn sicr.
It's a contribution to that, most certainly.
Felly, dydych chi ddim yn gweld unrhyw rôl ehangach i'r Llywodraeth i hybu'r defnydd o'r Gymraeg.
So, you don't see any broader role for Government in promoting the use of the Welsh language.
Ydw, yn sicr.
I certainly do.
Sut ydych chi'n mynd i wneud hynny?
How will you do that?
Dwi ddim eisiau rhoi ymateb hir iawn, ond gwnaf i jest ddweud hyn: mae'r syniad o hybu wedi bod yn syniad cyfforddus iawn, ar un lefel. Hynny yw, mae'n syniad eang iawn, a dyw e ddim yn benthyg ei hun i fod yn sbesiffig o ran ymyraethau strategol a dyw e ddim yn benthyg ei hun i'r gwaith o fod yn atebol ichi fel pwyllgor a'r Senedd. Mae'n well gen i edrych ar yr ymyraethau unigol. So, os ydyn ni'n sôn am gynyddu addysg Gymraeg, dyna beth yw'r nod. Os ydyn ni'n sôn am gynyddu addysg i oedolion, dyna beth yw'r nod. Os ydyn ni'n sôn am ofodau uniaith Gymraeg, dyna beth yw'r nod. Felly, dwi'n credu bod angen edrych arno fe ar un lefel mwy manwl na hynny.
I don't want to give a lengthy response to that question, but I will just say that the idea of promotion has been one that's been very comfortable, at one level. It's very broad ranging, and it doesn't lend itself to specifics in terms of strategic interventions, and it doesn't lend itself to the work of being accountable to you as a committee and a Senedd. I prefer to look at the individual interventions. So, if we're talking about increasing Welsh-medium education, then that's the aim. If we're talking about increasing adult education, that's a target. If we're talking about Welsh-only spaces, that's the target. So, I think it needs to be looked at in more detail.
Ocê. Dwi ddim eisiau treulio'r bore i gyd ar hyn, ond dwi ddim yn credu bod y math o gomisiwn rydych chi wedi'i ddisgrifio wrth ateb y cwestiwn yn un sy'n mynd i gyfrannu beth dŷn ni ei angen o ran cynllunio iaith ar hyn o bryd, ond mae'n bosibl dod nôl at hynny yn nes ymlaen.
Fel Gweinidog, beth welais i oedd gormod o fiwrocratiaeth ynglŷn â safonau. Roeddwn i'n gweld y safonau fel peth iawn, ond roeddwn i'n gweld ein bod ni'n adeiladu llu o strwythurau biwrocrataidd nad oeddent yn cyfrannu at y defnydd o'r Gymraeg i gefnogi'r safonau. Doeddwn i ddim yn gweld y safonau fel pethau yr un mor bwysig ag y mae rhai pobl yn eu gweld nhw. Beth ydy dy farn di amboutu llwyddiant neu ddiffyg llwyddiant y safonau, wrth wneud dau beth: yn gyntaf, creu hawliau newydd i ni ddefnyddio'r Gymraeg, ac yn ail, y ffordd y mae'r Llywodraeth neu'r comisiynydd, sut bynnag rŷch chi eisiau ateb y cwestiwn, yn gweinyddu y safonau?
I don't want to spend the whole morning on this, but I don't think that the kind of commission you've described in answering this question is one that will contribute what we need in terms of language planning at the moment, but perhaps we could return to that at a later stage.
As Minister, what I saw was that there was too much bureaucracy around standards. I saw the standards as being okay, but I saw that we were building a whole host of bureaucratic structures that didn't contribute to the use of the Welsh language to support the standards. I didn't see the standards as being as important as they are in some people's eyes. What are your views on the success or otherwise of the standards, in two areas: first of all in creating new rights to use the Welsh language, and secondly, the way in which the Government or the commissioner administers those standards?
Yr ateb cyflym yw ei fod e'n creu hawliau newydd, ac mae lle i wella sut mae'r safonau yn cael eu gosod. So, dyna'r ateb syml. Beth dwi eisiau bod yn glir—fel roeddwn i'n sôn eisoes ynglŷn â'r defnydd, rwyf eisiau deall sut mae'r safonau sydd eisoes wedi cael eu gosod yn helpu siaradwyr i ddefnyddio mwy o'r Gymraeg. Felly dyna, rwy'n credu, yw'r nod. Does neb yn moyn gweld hawliau ar bapur; mae pawb yn moyn gweld hawliau ymarferol, sy'n arwain at ddefnydd ehangach o'r Gymraeg. Dyna'r prif nod yn fy marn i. Rwyf wedi cael trafodaethau gyda’r comisiynydd am hyn, ac mae'r darn o waith ynglŷn â deall mwy am yr impact ar ddefnydd yn bwysig, a hefyd y daith iaith roeddwn i'n sôn amdani yn gynharach. Felly, rwy'n awyddus iawn i gael y ddau beth hynny wedi eu ffocysu arnyn nhw.
O ran y system a'r broses o osod safonau, rwy'n credu bod lot o ffyrdd y gallem ni wella ar y broses honno. Y weledigaeth wreiddiol, fel rŷch chi'n amlwg yn gwybod, oedd bod lefelau o ofyniad yn cael eu dodi ar gyrff penodol fel eu bod nhw'n gallu mynd ar siwrnai ieithyddol, os hoffwch chi. Mae tensiwn rhwng hynny a'r syniad o hawliau cyson ar draws sector, sef beth mae'r comisiynydd yn hanesyddol wedi'i flaenoriaethu, ond canlyniad hyn yw gap rhwng yr hawl a'r ddarpariaeth ar lawr gwlad. Felly, dyna pam mae deall pethau sy'n rhwystredigaethau go iawn i fudiadau a chwmnïau a sefydliadau allu darparu gwasanaethau yn y Gymraeg—dyna pam mae hynny mor bwysig.
Rwy'n credu hefyd bod gwaith y gallwn ei wneud, a rwyf wedi trafod hyn gyda'r comisiynydd, i symleiddio'r broses mewn amryw ffyrdd. Mae lot o bethau sydd ddim yn gallu cael eu symleiddio achos maen nhw yn y Ddeddf, ond mae'r broses o ymchwiliadau ac wedyn y gwaith mae'r Llywodraeth yn gorfod ei wneud gyda'r sectorau i gael gwaith mwy manwl yn hynny o beth yn creu risg sylweddol iawn o ddyblygu mewn amryw o gyrff, a'r cyrff sydd yn disgwyl wedyn eu bod nhw'n cael eu darostwng i'r safonau. Ac mae'r gap yn gallu bod yn eithaf sylweddol. Felly rwy'n credu bod lot mwy o waith y gallem ni ei wneud i sicrhau bod y broses honno'n symlach.
The brief response is that it does create new rights, but there is room for improvement. So, that's the simple answer. But what I want to be clear on—as I've already mentioned on language use, I want to understand how standards that have already been put in place help Welsh speakers to make more use of the Welsh language. I think that's the aim. Nobody wants to see rights being simply something on paper; we want to see real, practical rights that lead to more use of the Welsh language. That's the main aim in my view. I have had discussions with the commissioner on this, and there is a piece of work on understanding the impact of standards on language use, and also the language journey that I mentioned earlier. So, I'm very eager to get those two things in place.
In terms of the system and the process of imposing standards, I think there are many things that we can do to improve that process. The original vision, as you clearly know, was that levels of requirements were placed on particular bodies so that they could go on a journey. There is a tension between that and consistent rights across sectors, which is what the commissioner has historically prioritised, but the upshot of that is a gap between the right and the provision on the ground. So, that's why understanding the real barriers for organisations, companies and institutions in providing Welsh language standards is so very important.
I also think that there is work that we can do, and I discussed this with the commissioner, to simplify the process in many ways. There are many things that can't be simplified as they're contained within legislation, but the process of investigations and the work that's done with the sectors does create a substantial risk of duplication. In many organisations, and organisations expected to be subject to standards, the gap can be quite substantial, so I think there's a lot more work that we can do to ensure that that process is simplified.
Dwi'n falch clywed hynny. Yr ail beth roeddwn i eisiau dychwelyd ato oedd rôl y Llywodraeth—
I'm pleased to hear that. The second thing I wanted to return to—
Yn fyr, os gallwch chi, Alun.
If you could be brief, Alun, please.
Ie. Roeddem ni'n glir yn gyhoeddus, wrth lansio'r rhaglen, bod targed 'Cymraeg 2050' yn darged i newid pethau, ac i newid y Llywodraeth hefyd. Beth wnes i ddim ei wneud yn gyhoeddus ar y pryd—doeddwn i ddim yn teimlo fel Gweinidog fy mod i'n gallu dweud hyn—oedd sôn am y diffyg cefnogaeth tu fewn i'r Llywodraeth am y nod, a'r diffyg cefnogaeth yn dy adran di, yr adran addysg. Fel cyn-Weinidog addysg fy hun, roeddwn i'n cael y math yma o drafodaeth. Felly, beth wyt ti'n gallu ei wneud i newid agweddau negyddol tu fewn i'r Llywodraeth? A sut wyt ti'n teimlo rwyt ti'n gallu sicrhau bod y newid dŷn ni i gyd eisiau ei weld i gyrraedd y targed yn un y bydd y Llywodraeth i gyd yn cyfrannu ato?
Okay. In launching the programme publicly, we were clear that the target of 'Cymraeg 2050' was a target to change things, and to change things within Government too. What I didn't say publicly at the time—I didn't feel that as Minister I could say this—was about the lack of support within Government for this target, and the lack of support in your department, the education department. As a former education Minister myself, I did have those kinds of discussions. So, what can you do to change attitudes, negative attitudes within Government? And how do you think you can ensure that the change we all want to see in delivering the target is one that the Government as a whole will be committed to?
Y peth cyntaf i'w ddweud yw ei fod e'n bwysig i osod y nod hwnnw; so, mae hynny yn sicr wedi digwydd. Fe wna i efallai son am yr elfen weinidogol ac mi wna i ofyn i Owain a Bethan am sylwadau efallai o ran sut mae'r gwasanaeth sifil yn ymateb i hynny. Felly, fel rŷch chi'n cofio, roedd y Prif Weinidog yn ei faniffesto arweinyddol yn glir am brif-ffrydio'r Gymraeg yng ngwaith y Llywodraeth. Beth mae hynny'n ei olygu? Mae'n sicr yn golygu mwy—. Wel, dyw e ddim yn golygu diwylliant o jest cydymffurfiaeth—'dyma'r cynllun, dyma'r blwch ar y diwedd sy'n gofyn os ydych chi wedi ystyried yr effaith ar y Gymraeg'. Nid dyna'r diwylliant rŷn ni'n sôn amdano yma o gwbl. Mae'n ddiwylliant lot fwy integredig lle mae impact polisi ar y Gymraeg, positif a negyddol, yn cael ei gysidro o'r cychwyn cyntaf. Dyna'r nod.
Gwaith Prosiect 2050 o fewn y Llywodraeth—dyna beth yw pwrpas hynny, sicrhau bod cefnogaeth yn digwydd ym mhob portffolio i allu gyrru gwaith i gyrraedd y strategaeth yn ei flaen. Felly, mae gwaith yn digwydd gyda bron pob portffolio. Gallwn ni eu trafod nhw, os oes amser, Cadeirydd. Rwy'n hapus i ateb cwestiynau penodol arnyn nhw. Ond mae hyn yn digwydd ym mhob portffolio. Yr hyn sydd angen digwydd—a hwn yw'r sialens mwyaf—yw newid diwylliant fel eich bod chi'n symud o fyd lle mae edrych ar yr effaith ar y Gymraeg yn digwydd ar ôl i'r polisi gael ei ddatblygu i system lle mae hynny'n digwydd reit ar y cychwyn. Rwy'n credu ein bod ni ar y siwrne honno, yn sicr. Mae lot mwy i'w wneud, wrth gwrs, ond fe wna i ofyn i Owain, efallai, am ei sylwadau o ran y gwasanaeth sifil ac ati.
The first thing to say is that it's important to set that target, and that's certainly happened. I will talk about the ministerial elements and ask Owain and Bethan for comments on how the civil service responds to that. So, as you know, the First Minister in his leadership manifesto was clear about mainstreaming the Welsh language in the work of Government. What does that mean? Well, it certainly doesn't mean a culture of compliance—'this is the plan, and this is the box that you tick at the end to say you've considered the Welsh language'. That's not the culture we're talking about here at all. It's a far more integrated culture where the impact of policy on the Welsh language, both positive and negative, is considered from the very outset. That's the aim.
The work of Prosiect 2050 within Government is to ensure that there is support within all portfolios to deliver against the strategy. So, work is happening with virtually all portfolios. We can discuss those if there's time. I'm happy to answer specific questions on these. But this is happening across all portfolios. What needs to happen—and this is the greatest challenge—is to change culture so that you move from a situation where looking at the impact on the Welsh language happens after the policy is developed to a system where that happens from the very outset of policy development. And we're on that journey. There's more to be done, of course, but I will ask Owain for some comments on the civil service and so on.
Diolch, Weinidog. Mae'r Gweinidog wedi sôn yn barod am rai o'r pethau mewnol yr ydyn ni'n eu gwneud, ond i ateb dy gwestiwn di, yn sicr mae yna le i wella. Fel y cyfarwyddwr newydd, dwi'n meddwl bod yna gyfle gyda'r ffaith ein bod ni wedi dod â'r portffolio at ei gilydd, bod yr iaith Gymraeg a'r adran addysg yn un. Mae hynny'n hollbwysig—bod y tîm sy'n gweithio i fi yn sylweddoli pwysigrwydd hynny, a'n bod ni'n edrych ar sut rydyn ni'n gallu bwrw ymlaen gyda'r cynllun. So, yn sicr mae yna lot fwy i'w wneud, ond fel oedd y Gweinidog yn sôn, mae yna strwythurau mewnol i sicrhau hynny. Ond mae'n rhaid i ni edrych ar adrannau eraill a sicrhau bod pawb yn rhwyfo yn yr un cyfeiriad. Felly, byddwn i'n cytuno â hynny.
Thank you, Minister. The Minister has already mentioned some of the internal things that we're doing, but to answer your question, certainly there's room for improvement. As the new director, I think there is an opportunity with the fact that we've brought the portfolio together, that education and the Welsh language are contained within the same portfolio. That's crucially important—that the team working for me understand the importance of that, and that we look at how we can drive forward the programme. So, certainly there's a lot more to be done, but as the Minister mentioned, there are internal structures in place to secure that. But we also have to look at other departments and ensure that everyone is rowing in the same direction. So, I would agree with that.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Fe wnawn ni symud ymlaen ychydig. Dwi'n meddwl bod gan Carolyn gwestiwn atodol yn y maes yma—wel, y maes cyffredinol yma.
Thank you very much. We'll move on. I think Carolyn had a supplementary question in this general area.
Thank you. The funding to expand Welsh-medium provision in early years has been really welcome. Would you look at the Learner Travel (Wales) Measure 2008 as well, to see if you could change that and maybe make some funding available? When there are choices as parents, as to whether you send your child to English medium or Welsh medium, especially in north-east Wales as well—. You know, if you don't speak English at home, but there's free transport to the nearest Welsh-medium school—. And also, when they go on to high school as well, that can make a difference. It can be that the only time that young people are immersed in the Welsh language is at school. So, if there's free school transport to the nearest provision, I think that could make a difference.
Ie, yn sicr, mae'r cwestiwn o leoliad yn bwysig. Rwyf wedi sôn mewn cyd-destunau eraill bod y nod o ran rhifau yn bwysig, ond mae'r nod darpariaeth ddaearyddol yn bwysig hefyd wrth edrych ar gynllunio addysg. Mae cyfle nawr wrth bod ffynhonnell gyfalaf ar gyfer ysgolion cyfrwng Cymraeg yn y don newydd o ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain yn dod ar yr un pryd â'r cynlluniau strategol newydd. Felly, mae cyfle i gydlynu'r ddau beth o ran gweledigaeth a darpariaeth ac ariannu.
O ran y cwestiwn penodol ar y Mesur teithio, mae yna adolygiad yn digwydd ar hyn o bryd. Nid yn fy mhortffolio i mae hynny—mae ym mhortffolio'r adran newid hinsawdd, oherwydd dyna lle mae trafnidiaeth. Ond mae gwaith yn digwydd ar hyn o bryd i edrych ar effaith y Mesur, a newidiadau posib i hwnnw.
Yes, certainly, the question of location is important. I mentioned in other contexts that numbers and statistics are important, but in terms of this area, geographical issues are also relevant in looking at education. There is an opportunity now that we have a capital source available for Welsh-medium schools in the new wave of twenty-first century schools, and the fact that that's coming at the same time as the new strategic plans. So, we have an opportunity to co-ordinate both things in terms of vision and provision and funding.
In terms of your specific question on the learner travel Measure, there is a review ongoing at the moment. It's not in my portfolio—it's in the climate change portfolio, because that's where transport lies. But work is ongoing at the moment to look at the impact of that Measure, and possible changes to it.
Diolch, Gweinidog. Fe wnawn ni symud ymlaen nawr at Heledd Fychan.
Thank you, Minister. We'll move on to Heledd Fychan.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Jest i ddilyn y thema yna o ran cynlluniau strategol y Gymraeg, o edrych ar bob cyngor sir yng Nghymru, mae yna anghysondeb, wrth gwrs, yn sut maen nhw'n mynd ati i wireddu'r targed o filiwn o siaradwyr. Pa ddylanwad neu ymyrraeth sydd gennych chi o ran gallu sicrhau bod y cynghorau sir yn cefnogi'r targed o filiwn o siaradwyr mewn ffordd sydd wirioneddol ddim fel tic mewn bocs?
Thank you very much. Just to follow up on that theme in terms of the WESPs, in looking at councils across Wales, there is inconsistency, of course, in terms of how they deliver the target of a million Welsh speakers. What influence or intervention can you have in terms of ensuring that the councils do support this target of a million Welsh speakers in a meaningful way, rather than simply putting a tick in a box?
Gwnaf ofyn i Bethan roi mwy o fanylion am sut mae'r broses yn gweithio ar lawr gwlad, ond mae proses yn bodoli. So, ar hyn o bryd, fel ŷch chi'n gwybod, mae cynghorau’n gweithio ar eu cynlluniau, mae deialog yn digwydd gyda Llywodraeth Cymru yn hyn o beth, a hefyd mae sesiynau i adeiladu ymwybyddiaeth a chapasiti yn y system i allu bod yn uchelgeisiol o ran sut mae'r cynlluniau yn cael eu darparu. Wedyn—rwy'n credu erbyn diwedd mis Ionawr—rwy'n disgwyl i gael rheini wedi cael eu cyflwyno inni fel Llywodraeth i ni gael eu hystyried nhw ar yr amser hwnnw i sicrhau eu bod nhw'n ddigon uchelgeisiol. Felly, mae'r system honno eisoes yn ei lle ac mae'n gweithredu, ond gwnaf i ofyn i Bethan efallai roi mwy o fanylion am hynny.
I will ask Bethan to provide more detail as to how it works on the ground, but there is a process in place. So, at the moment, as you know, councils work on their Welsh in education strategic plans, the dialogue happens with Welsh Government in that regard, and there are also sessions in terms of building awareness and capacity in the system and being ambitious in how those plans are provided. Then—I think by the end of January—we expect to have those presented to us as a Government for consideration at that time in order to ensure that they are sufficiently ambitious. So, that system is already in place and is operational, but I'll ask Bethan to provide more detail.
Ie, yn ategol i'r hyn mae'r Gweinidog wedi'i ddweud, mae gennym ni dîm penodol sy'n gweithio efo awdurdodau lleol ar draws Cymru. Rydyn ni'n cynnig cefnogaeth. Rydyn ni wedi creu llawer o sesiynau ar-lein o ran hyfforddiant mewn cynllunio ieithyddol ac yn y blaen, ac rydyn ni wedi rhoi lot o gefnogaeth fel maen nhw'n datblygu cynlluniau strategol Cymraeg mewn addysg newydd 10 mlynedd. Mae yna hefyd fforwm addysg iaith Gymraeg ym mhob un sir ac maen nhw wedi datblygu llawer dros y ddwy flynedd diwethaf, ac mae yna lot o arfer da. Mae yna bartneriaid defnydd iaith—penaethiaid ysgolion a'r gymuned ehangach—yn mynd i'r trafodaethau yna.
Mae yna lot o waith i'w wneud yn dal i fod, fel mae'r Gweinidog ac Owain wedi dweud, ond dwi wedi gweld newid sylweddol mewn agweddau awdurdodau lleol, a hyd yn oed yng nghanol y pandemig roedd y fforymau iaith addysg yn dal i fwrw ymlaen. Felly, dwi'n meddwl bod ieithwedd yn ddrafftiau'r WESPs/CSCA dwi wedi'u gweld—mae'r ieithwedd yn bositif ac mae yna wir awydd i symud hwn ymlaen a gweithio mewn partneriaeth.
Yes, in addition to what the Minister's just said, we have a specific team working with local authorities across Wales. We provide support. We've delivered a number of sessions online in terms of training in language planning and so on, and we've provided a great deal of support as they develop their new WESPs for the next 10 years. There is also a Welsh language education forum in every county and they've developed a great deal over the past two years, and there's a great deal of good practice. There are language use partners, in terms of school heads and the broader community, who attend those meetings.
There's a great deal of work still to be done, as the Minister and Owain have already said, but I have seen substantial changes in attitudes in local authorities. Even in the midst of the pandemic, the language fora continued with their work. So, I think the language in the drafting of the WESPs is more positive now, and there's a real desire to drive this forward and to work in partnership.
Ond beth ydych chi'n gallu ei wneud os dydyn nhw ddim wedi cyrraedd y targedau cychwynnol hynny felly—y targedau gwnaethon nhw eu gosod fel rhan o gyrraedd y targed miliwn o siaradwyr? Oes yna unrhyw beth mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn gallu ei wneud os nad ydy awdurdodau lleol wedi cyrraedd y targedau cychwynnol hynny?
But what can you do if they haven't delivered those initial targets—those targets that they set as part of the million Welsh speakers strategy? Is there anything that the Welsh Government can do if local authorities don't deliver against those initial targets?
Dyna pam gwnaethon ni adolygu'r rheoliadau CSCA. Felly, mae'r rheoliadau newydd yna wedi dod i rym, y rheoliadau newydd sydd yn bwrw'r strategaethau newydd 10 mlynedd yn eu blaenau. Felly, rydyn ni wedi edrych ar beth ydy'r targed yn y taflwybr, sef 30 y cant. Ac felly, rydyn ni wedi rhoi targed penodol yn y CSCA newydd i bob sir, ac maen nhw wedi ymrwymo i'r targedau hynny. Ac felly, dyna beth fydd yn cael ei ymgynghori arno yn ystod yr hydref.
That's why we reviewed the WESP regulations. Those new regulations have come into place, and it's the new regulations that are driving the 10-year strategies forward. So, we have looked at the target, which is 30 per cent, and we've given a specific target in the WESPs for every council, and they are committed to those targets. And that's what will be consulted on during the autumn.
Wedyn, mi fydd gennych chi fwy o bwerau a grym felly os nad ydy'r targedau hynny—i'r Llywodraeth fedru ymyrryd mewn siroedd penodol?
So, then you'll have more powers if those targets aren't delivered so that the Government can intervene, where necessary?
Byddwn ni'n monitro yn flynyddol. Mae gennym ni dashboard newydd rydyn ni wedi'i greu. Felly, byddwn ni'n gweithio efo'r siroedd i sicrhau bod y targedau yna yn cael eu cyrraedd.
We will be monitoring annually. We have a new dashboard that we have created, and we will be working with councils to ensure that these targets are delivered.
Diolch yn fawr iawn am hynny. Pan fyddwch chi wedi cael y data nôl o ran sut rydyn ni'n mynd ati efo'r targedau cychwynnol hynny, ydych chi'n meddwl bod y targed o filiwn o siaradwyr yn dal yn realistig, Weinidog?
Thank you very much for that. When you have the data in terms of how we're delivering against those initial targets, do you think that the target of a million Welsh speakers is still realistic, Minister?
Ydw. Mae'n uchelgeisiol, fel roedd e o'r cychwyn cyntaf pan wnaeth Carwyn Jones ac Alun Davies ei lansio fe, ond dyna'r bwriad—sicrhau bod y system yn ymateb i'r lefel hwnnw o uchelgais. Mae'r ffigurau rydym ni'n eu gweld yn yr adolygiadau diweddar yn gadarnhaol. Fel rwy'n dweud, bydd angen edrych ar hyn eto yn sgil canlyniadau'r cyfrifiad pan gân nhw eu cyhoeddi rhywbryd flwyddyn nesaf, diwedd flwyddyn nesaf. Bydd yn rhaid edrych ar y sefyllfa yr amser hwnnw, ond dwi'n credu ei fod e'n realistig, er ei fod yn uchelgeisiol.
It's ambitious but, yes, I think it's realistic. It's ambitious, as it was when it was launched by Carwyn Jones and Alun Davies, but that's the intention—to ensure that the system responds to that level of ambition. The figures that we've seen recently are positive. As I've said, we will need to look again at this in terms of the census results when they're published some time next year, at the end of next year probably. We will have to look at the situation at that point, but I do think it's realistic. However, it is ambitious.
Wnaethoch chi sôn, o ran y Gymraeg a chymunedau, ynglŷn â phwysigrwydd y ddarpariaeth ddaearyddol o ran ysgolion hefyd. Pa ddylanwad ydych chi'n gallu ei gael ar lywodraeth leol o ran y lleoliadau hynny? Ydych chi'n hyderus bod ein cynghorau sir ni ddim jest yn ateb y galw, ond yn gweithredu i greu a thyfu'r galw ar y funud?
You mentioned, in terms of the Welsh language and communities, the importance of geographical provision in terms of schools. What influence can you have on local government in terms of those locations? Are you confident that our county councils aren't simply meeting demand, but are actually working to develop that demand?
O ran darpariaeth addysg Gymraeg?
In terms of Welsh-medium education?
Ie.
Yes.
Dyna'r sifft, dwi'n credu, roedd Bethan yn sôn amdano o ran y lefel o uchelgais. Mae'r cwestiwn yna yn mynd at ganol y sialens, onid yw e? Efallai nad yw rhai, wrth gwrs, wedi cyrraedd at ateb y galw presennol, ond beth sydd angen ei wneud ydy creu'r galw, a dyna rwy'n credu yw'r sifft sydd wedi bod yn digwydd yn y cyfnod diweddar.
I think that's the shift Bethan mentioned in terms of the level of ambition. That question gets to the very heart of the challenge we face. Some perhaps haven't yet met the need that's in place already, but what we need is to drive that demand, and that's been the shift.
Diolch yn fawr. Os caf, o ran y Gymraeg a cymunedau, yn amlwg, un o'r materion mawr ydy ail gartrefi mewn cymunedau Cymraeg eu hiaith. Dwi'n gwybod bod yna lot fawr o drafod wedi bod am hyn yn barod yn y Senedd, ond beth ydych chi'n gweld fel y camau gweithredu y byddwch yn eu cymryd?
Thank you very much. In terms of the Welsh language and communities, clearly, one of the major issues is second homes in Welsh-speaking communities. Now, I know that there's been a great deal of discussion of this already in the Senedd, but what do you see as the action steps that you will take?
Wel, rydym ni'n cymryd nhw eisoes. Felly, rydym ni wedi bod yn gweithio dros yr haf i edrych ar gymunedau lle gallwn ni dreialu rhai o'r ymyraethau rydym ni wedi bod yn edrych arnyn nhw. Mae trafodaethau cadarnhaol iawn wedi bod yn digwydd rhwng swyddogion ac ardaloedd lleol ynglŷn â hynny. Bydd y Gweinidog Newid Hinsawdd yn gwneud datganiad ar leoliad peilot yn fuan ar hwnnw. Rydym ni hefyd wedi bod yn ymgynghori dros yr haf, fel rŷch chi'n gwybod—mae'r ymgynghoriad dal ar agor—ynglŷn â newidiadau trethi lleol, i sicrhau bod gan gynghorau fwy o arfau, os hoffech chi, o ran trethi, i ddelio â rhai o'r sialensiau hyn. Rydym ni hefyd wedi bod yn adolygu'r canllawiau cynllunio i sicrhau bod mwy o flaenoriaeth i'r Gymraeg yn rhai o'r penderfyniadau mae cynghorau yn eu cymryd, ac rydym ni hefyd wedi bod yn comisiynu darn o waith dros yr haf i'n cynghori ni, gan gwmni arbenigol, ar sut i gyflwyno cynllun trwyddedu statudol. Felly, mae'r gwaith wedi bod yn digwydd yn hynny. Rwy'n disgwyl bydd gyda ni fwy yn hynny, efallai diwedd mis Tachwedd, dechrau mis Rhagfyr.
Ar y cyd â hynny, mae gwaith wedi bod yn digwydd i ddatblygu'r pecyn o gefnogaeth i brynu tai ac ati—felly, ymyraethau yn y maes tai. Rwy'n disgwyl hefyd bydd y Gweinidog Newid Hinsawdd yn gwneud datganiad ar gyfer ymgynghori ar y cynllun tai cymunedau Cymraeg maes o law, a fydd yn delio â phethau o safbwynt fy mhortffolio i, yn edrych ar bethau fel trochi, addysg Gymraeg, darpariaeth ar lein, pecynnau integreiddio diwylliannol ac ieithyddol, a wedyn, ar yr ochr dai, pethau eithaf creadigol ynglŷn ag edrych ar yr awydd i gael mentrau cymdeithasol ar gyfer gosod tai, edrych ar y capasiti i greu modelau tai cydweithredol. Felly, mae amryw o bethau, ynghyd â gwaith y comisiwn, felly, ar yr ochr ieithyddol a'r ochr polisi tai. Y peth allweddol yw bod y ddau beth yn dod at ei gilydd yn y cynllun hwnnw.
Well, they're already in place. We've been working over the summer to look at communities where we can trial some of the interventions that we've been considering. There have been very positive discussions happening between officials and local authorities about that. The Minister for Climate Change will be making a statement on the location of a pilot soon. We've also been consulting over the summer, as you know—the consultation is still open—on changes in local taxation to ensure that councils have more tools in their box in terms of taxation and dealing with some of these challenges. We've also been reviewing the planning guidance to ensure that more priority is given to the Welsh language in some of the decisions taken by councils, and we've also commissioned a piece of work over the summer, from an expert company, in terms of how to introduce statutory licensing. So, work has been ongoing there. We expect to have more to say about that at the end of November, the beginning of December.
In addition to that, work has been ongoing in developing the package of support in terms of home buying and so on—so, interventions in housing. I also expect that the Minister for Climate Change will make a statement on the consultation on Welsh-speaking community housing, which will deal with issues in terms of my portfolio and look at things like immersion, Welsh language education, online provision, cultural and linguistic integration packages, and then also, in terms of housing, look at more creative approaches in terms of looking at the desire to have social enterprise for the letting of homes, looking at the capacity to create co-operative housing models. So, there are a number of things, as well as the work of the commission, on the linguistic side of things and also on the housing policy side of things. The important thing is that both things come together in that plan.
Diolch. Ochr arall y geiniog, wrth gwrs, ydy ein bod ni'n sôn am warchod y Gymraeg a'i thyfu hi o ran beth oedd yn draddodiadol yn gadarnleoedd, ond hoffwn efallai ofyn ynglŷn â ffocws strategol ar wella mynediad a chyfleoedd i gymunedau BAME a chymunedau lleiafrifol i ddysgu Cymraeg a defnyddio'r Gymraeg fel ei bod hi'n wirioneddol yn iaith i bawb yng Nghymru.
Thank you. The other side of the coin, of course, is we're talking about safeguarding and developing the Welsh language in terms of what were traditionally its heartlands, but I would like to perhaps ask about a strategic focus on improving access for BAME and minority communities to learn Welsh and use the Welsh language so that it truly is a language for everyone in Wales.
Wel, mae'n sicr bod angen mwy o waith yn y maes hwn. Mae'r canran o'r boblogaeth du, Asiaidd a lleiafrifoedd ethnig sy'n siarad Cymraeg yn is na'r ganran ar draws y boblogaeth yn ehangach, felly mae'n sicr bod gwaith i'w wneud. Beth yw'r ymyraethau penodol? Wel, wrth ddechrau gyda gwaith y mudiadau meithrin, mae angen sicrhau ein bod ni'n sicrhau bod pobl yn deall bod y mudiadau meithrin yna i bob person yng Nghymru. Felly, mae darn o waith eisoes fanna ar gyfer hysbysebu a marchnata argaeledd mudiadau meithrin i rai o'n cymunedau du, Asiaidd a lleiafrifoedd ethnig ni. Maen nhw wedi bod yn gweithio hefyd, yn y mudiadau meithrin, ar bolisi cydraddoldeb hiliol ac ymgyrch recriwtio benodol, a gweithio gyda rhieni i gasglu data i sicrhau ein bod ni'n deall beth sy'n digwydd ar lawr gwlad yn barod. Felly, mae hynny'n digwydd o ran y blynyddoedd cynnar.
O ran data a pherfformiad, os hoffech chi, lefel ysgol—hynny yw, disgyblion ysgol—beth rŷm ni wedi darganfod yw bod bron i hanner y plant o gefndiroedd du, Asiaidd a lleiafrifoedd ethnig sy'n astudio'r Gymraeg fel iaith gyntaf yn gwneud hynny naill ai yng Nghaerdydd neu yng Ngwynedd. Felly, mae'r patrwm yn eithaf concentrated, os hoffech chi. Felly, mae mwy i'w wneud yn y maes hwnnw i sicrhau bod argaeledd addysg Gymraeg—bod cymunedau du, Asiaidd a lleiafrifoedd ethnig yn teimlo bod argaeledd ym mhob rhan o Gymru, os hoffech chi. Felly, mae angen gwneud mwy o waith yn y maes hwnnw.
O ran dysgu Cymraeg i oedolion, rwy'n credu bod y Ganolfan Dysgu Cymraeg Genedlaethol wedi bod yn gwneud gwaith eithaf arloesol ar hyn. Maen nhw'n edrych ar hyn o bryd ar sut gallen nhw gefnogi teuluoedd o Affganistan, er enghraifft, i ddysgu Cymraeg. Un o'r sialensiau yn y maes hwn yn gyffredinol, rwy'n credu, yw'r derminoleg sydd ar gael yn y Gymraeg i drafod cwestiynau sydd efallai yn berthnasol i bolisi maes hil yn fwy eang, ac rwy'n credu bod angen inni wneud mwy o waith yn y maes hwnnw i sicrhau bod y derminoleg a'r ieithwedd yn addas. Mae grŵp gorchwyl yn digwydd ar hyn o bryd—mae'r ganolfan dysgu Cymraeg yn rhan o hwnnw—i sicrhau ein bod ni'n defnyddio'r iaith a'r ieithwedd iawn sydd yn gynhwysol ac yn addas i sicrhau bod pawb yn teimlo bod yr iaith yn perthyn iddyn nhw. Felly, mae pethau sbesiffig iawn yn digwydd, ond mae'n sicr bod angen gwneud mwy yn y maes hwnnw.
Well, we certainly need more work in this area. The percentage of the BAME population who are Welsh speakers is lower than the percentage across the broader population, so there is certainly work to be done. What are the specific interventions? Well, in starting with Mudiad Meithrin, we need to ensure that people understand that the Mudiad Meithrin movement is there for everyone in Wales. So, there's a piece of work there already in terms of advertising and marketing the availability of Welsh-speaking nursery groups to some of our BAME communities. They've also been working on a race equality policy and a recruitment campaign, and they've also worked with parents to gather data in order to ensure that we understand what happens on the ground already. So, that is happening in terms of early years.
In terms of data and performance at a school level, in terms of school pupils, what we've found is that almost half of those from BAME communities who study Welsh as a first language do that either in Cardiff or in Gwynedd. So, the pattern is quite concentrated in that sense. So, there's more to be done there in order to ensure the availability of Welsh-medium education, that it is available to BAME communities across Wales. So, we need to do more work in that area.
In terms of Welsh for adults, I think the National Centre for Learning Welsh has been doing innovative work on this. They're currently looking at how they can support families from Afghanistan, for example, in learning Welsh. One of the challenges in this area more generally, I think, is the terminology used in Welsh to discuss questions that are relevant to race policy more generally, and I think we need to do more work in that area to ensure that the terminology and language is appropriate. There is a task and finish group ongoing at the moment—the national centre is part of that—in order to ensure that we use the right inclusive language and language that's appropriate so that everyone feels that the Welsh language belongs to them. So, there are very specific things happening, but certainly we need to do more in that area.
Jest cwestiwn olaf gen i, sori Delyth, jest yn sydyn—
Just one final question from me, sorry Delyth, just quickly—
Yn gyflym iawn, os dŷch chi'n gallu.
Very briefly, if you could.
Ie. Dros yr haf fe gyhoeddwyd yr adroddiadau ehangu mynediad gan Gyngor Celfyddydau Cymru ac Amgueddfa Cymru. Dwi'n siŵr i chi weld nifer o'r sylwadau ynglŷn â sôn bod y sefydliadau hynny'n hiliol, a'r cyfeiriadau at yr iaith Gymraeg o ran hynny, a'r targedau iaith Gymraeg a swyddi'n cael eu hysbysebu'n Gymraeg. Buaswn i'n hoffi cael eich ymateb chi i hynny, os gwelwch yn dda, Weinidog.
Yes. Over the summer, the expanding access reports were released by the Arts Council of Wales and the National Museum Wales. I'm sure you saw a lot of attention in terms of references to racism within those organisations, and references to the Welsh language and jobs being advertised as Welsh essential in that regard. I'd like your response to that, Minister.
Wel, jest pwynt ehangach, y gwaith dŷn ni'n ei wneud gyda'n holl bartneriaid, dŷn ni'n edrych, gyda'r cynllun grantiau, ar beth y gallwn ni ei wneud i sicrhau bod darpariaeth y mudiadau a'r partneriaid hynny mor gynhwysol ag y gall e fod, a sut y mae'n nhw'n gallu ymestyn eu gwasanaethau i gymunedau du, Asiaidd a lleiafrifoedd ethnig, a sicrhau eu bod nhw'n gwneud arolygon o'u staff hefyd, i sicrhau ein bod ni'n deall y sefyllfa ar lawr gwlad yn fwy manwl. Ond o ran y cwestiwn penodol roeddech chi'n sôn amdano, rwy'n deall y bydd datganiadau pellach yn dod maes o law ynglŷn â hynny.
Just on a broader point, the work we do with all partners—in terms of the grants scheme, we look at what we can do to ensure that the provisions of those organisations and those partners is as inclusive as possible, and how they can extend their services to BAME communities, and ensure that they carry out staff surveys to understand the situation on the ground in more detail too. But, in terms of the specific question you mentioned, I understand that there will be further statements in due time on those issues.
Dŷn ni mewn i'n chwarter awr olaf, mae arnaf i ofn, felly fe fydd yn rhaid inni symud ymlaen. Allwn ni symud ymlaen at Hefin David?
We're into our last 15 minutes, I'm afraid, so we will have to move on. If we could move on to Hefin David.
Thank you. With regard to the rapid review on the National Centre for Learning Welsh, just specifically, recommendation 6 said,
'the Centre and Welsh Government should scope expansion of provision and remit to those between 16 to 25 years of age who have studied Welsh as a subject in the English-medium school sector.'
What role do you think Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol would play in supporting that, or is that entirely separate?
Mae gwaith y coleg Cymraeg—. Rydym ni'n edrych ar ehangu cyllideb y coleg Cymraeg eleni er mwyn sicrhau ein bod ni'n defnyddio'r holl ystod o sgiliau sydd ganddyn nhw. Ond mae hefyd gwestiwn ynglŷn â gwaith y ganolfan genedlaethol—sut allwn ni ddefnyddio'r sgiliau penodol sydd gan y ganolfan fel ein bod ni'n defnyddio'r sgiliau hynny yn y system addysg yn ehangach, a dweud y gwir, yn cynnwys y cyfnod dŷch chi wedi sôn amdano fe fanna. Mae'r adolygiad hwnnw wedi cael ei gyhoeddi, wrth gwrs—fe wnes i ei gyhoeddi e dros yr haf. Dwi'n bwriadu ymateb i bob un o'r argymhellion yn fwy manwl cyn bo hir, felly byddwch chi'n gallu gweld yn union beth yw fy ymateb i i bob un o'r rheini, ac rwy'n barod i ateb unrhyw gwestiynau pellach fydd gyda chi'r amser hwnnw.
Well, the work of the coleg Cymraeg is important, and we've expanded their budget this year in order to ensure that we use the range of skills that they have. But there is also a question as to the work of the national centre, and how we can use the specific skills contained there, so that they are applied in the education system more broadly, including that phase that you mention there. That review has been published, of course—I published it over the summer, and I intend to respond to all of the recommendations in more detail in due time, so you will then see exactly what my response is to each of those, but I'm happy to answer any further questions you will have at that point.
I think the issue I'm raising is that there's existing provision and then there's the National Centre for Learning Welsh. I'm just trying to think how are you going to ensure that there's a dovetailing of existing support that is already funded and some of those recommendations.
Wel, dyna beth rôn i'n ceisio ei ateb. Rwy'n credu bod pethau sydd—. Mae sgiliau penodol yn y ganolfan dysgu; gallwn ni ddefnyddio'r sgiliau rheini yn ein system addysg ni. Mae gyda ni nod o sicrhau cynnydd mewn addysg Gymraeg mewn ysgolion sydd yn ddwyieithog neu'n addysg Saesneg ar hyn o bryd. Felly, mae gyda ni gyfle i ddefnyddio'r sgiliau yn y ganolfan dysgu Cymraeg i'n helpu ni i wneud hynny.
Well, that's the point I was trying to make. I think there are specific skills in the National Centre for Learning Welsh that could be used in our education system. We have an aim of ensuring progress in terms of Welsh language education in English medium or bilingual schools. So, we have an opportunity to use the skills contained within the centre to deliver that.
Okay. And will that require a significant amount of additional investment in order to deliver the review's recommendations?
Wel, efallai y bydd angen sicrhau adnoddau pellach, ond byddaf i'n edrych ar yr holl elfennau hynny fel rhan o'r ymateb llawnach i'r adolygiad; byddaf i'n ymateb iddo fe yn yr wythnosau nesaf.
Well, we may need further resources, but I will be looking at all of those elements as part of the fuller response to the review, which I'll be announcing in the next few weeks.
Okay. I imagine we'd like to come back to that at that date—
Yes. As soon as that is available, we'd be very grateful to have that, at the earliest opportunity.
Chair, I don't see it as fruitful for me to pursue any more detail, given that the Minister's indicated that a further announcement is coming. But I would like to ask about the support package for school-level immersion Welsh language learning and its implementation. So what support is being given to that?
Mae hwn yn bolisi cyffrous iawn, rwy'n credu. Rydym ni wedi gweld pa mor bwysig y mae hwn wedi bod lle mae'r ddarpariaeth yn bodoli eisoes. Rydym ni wedi cael canolfannau trochi ers y 1980au. Mae rhyw 14 o siroedd yng Nghymru nawr yn darparu rhyw fath o drochi—rhai mewn canolfannau penodol, rhai mewn addysg cefnogaeth ychwanegol i ddisgyblion yn eu hysgolion. Ac mae canlyniadau impressive iawn i blant sy'n mynd trwy'r system drochi. Dŷch chi'n gweld plant sy'n dod mewn heb fawr o Gymraeg, os Cymraeg o gwbl, ac o fewn 12 wythnos—wyth i 12 wythnos—maent yn siaradwyr Cymraeg, ac yn gallu mynd ymlaen i addysg Gymraeg. Felly, mae cyfle arbennig inni fan hyn.
Beth rydym ni wedi ei weld yng nghyfnod COVID yw cynnydd yn niferoedd y bobl sydd yn moyn cael mynediad i'r system drochi, felly mae hynny'n gadarnhaol iawn. A hefyd yn gadarnhaol yw diddordeb gan fwy o siroedd mewn darpariaeth neu ehangu darpariaeth drochi. Mae'r ddarpariaeth wedi bod yn hanesyddol gryfach yn y gogledd a'r siroedd arfordirol yn y gorllewin, ond mae mwy o ddiddordeb nawr gan rai o'r siroedd yn y de-ddwyrain, er enghraifft. Felly, mae cyfle i ni nawr greu adnoddau trochi ehangach. Mi wnes i ddatgan ryw bythefnos yn ôl gronfa o dros £2 filiwn i gefnogi hynny, i awdurdodau lleol gynnig am arian. Mae'r cyfleoedd hynny ar agor tan ddiwedd mis Hydref. Felly, rwy'n gobeithio gweld cynigion uchelgeisiol am ddarpariaeth drochi mewn amryw o lefydd.
This is a very exciting policy, I believe. And we've seen how important this has been where the provision has been in place, and we've had immersion centres since the 1980s. There are some 14 counties in Wales providing some sort of immersion—some in designated centres, and others in providing additional support within schools. And the outcomes are very impressive. Children who go through the immersion system—you see children coming in with virtually no Welsh, and within eight to 12 weeks they are Welsh speakers and can go on to Welsh-medium education. So, there's an excellent opportunity for us here.
What we have seen during COVID is an increase in the numbers of people who want to access the immersion system, which is very positive. And it's also positive that there is interest from more counties in making this provision, or expanding their immersion provision. The provision historically has been stronger in north Wales and the coastal counties in west Wales, but there is now more interest from counties in the south-east of Wales. So, there is an opportunity now for us to create broader immersion provision. I stated about a fortnight ago that there would be a fund of over £2 million to support that, which would be available for local authorities to bid for the funding. Now, those opportunities are open until the end of October, and I hope to see ambitious proposals in terms of immersion in a number of different areas.
That's fine for me, Chair.
Ocê, diolch. Rwy'n credu bod Heledd Fychan eisiau dod i mewn ar hyn.
Thank you. I think Heledd Fychan wanted to come in on this point.
Yn sicr, o ran y ddarpariaeth drochi, dwi'n meddwl ei bod hi'n broblem bod yna anghysondeb ledled Cymru ar y funud. Oes yna rywbeth rydych chi'n gallu ei wneud nid dim ond i annog awdurdodau lleol, ond i sicrhau bod hyn yn bodoli ym mhob sir? O edrych yn benodol o ran yr ardal dwi'n ei chynrychioli, Rhondda Cynon Taf, mae gwahaniaethau syfrdanol rhwng Caerdydd a Rhondda Cynon Taf, o glywed gan athrawon faint o ddisgyblion maen nhw'n eu colli, yn sgil COVID, i ysgolion Saesneg gan nad oes yna adnodd trochi yn bodoli yn Rhondda Cynon Taf. Oes yna rywbeth rydych chi'n gallu ei wneud i sicrhau bod hyn yn ddarpariaeth ledled Cymru, ynteu jest anogaeth?
Certainly, in terms of the immersion provision, it's a problem that there is inconsistency across Wales at the moment. Is there anything that you can do not only to encourage local authorities, but also to ensure that this is available in all counties? Looking specifically at the area that I represent, Rhondda Cynon Taf, there are substantial differences between Cardiff and Rhondda Cynon Taf, for example, and I've heard from teachers how many pupils they've lost, as a result of COVID, to English-medium schools because the immersion resource isn't available in RCT. So, is there anything that you can do to ensure that this provision is available the length and breadth of Wales, or is it just encouragement?
Wel, rŷch chi'n dweud 'jest anogaeth'; rwyf newydd ddatgan cronfa o £2 filiwn i sicrhau ei fod e'n digwydd, felly byddwn i'n ei ddisgrifio fe fel mwy na 'jest anogaeth'. Ond, o ran beth allwn ni ei wneud o ran gorfodaeth, mae Bethan newydd sôn am y siwrnai mae llywodraeth leol wedi bod arni o ran y cynlluniau strategol, ac mae hyn yn rhan o hynny. Felly, rwy'n credu bod angen i ni weithio mewn partneriaeth gyda darparwyr addysg i sicrhau bod pobl yn deall gwerth hyn, a dyna sydd yn digwydd. Nawr, dydw i ddim yn awgrymu bod dim lle i ryw elfen, efallai, o fod yn fwy penodol am hyn, ond, ar hyn o bryd, mae cynnydd yn digwydd. Rwyf eisiau gweld beth sy'n digwydd gyda'r gronfa hon nawr i weld o ble mae'r awydd yn dod. Mae'r ymateb wedi bod yn galonogol dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, yn sgil COVID, felly gadewch inni geisio adeiladu ar hynny. Ar y cwestiwn ehangach—rŷch chi wedi ei godi fe mewn mwy nag un cwestiwn, y levers cyfreithiol rŷch chi'n gofyn amdanyn nhw mewn gwirionedd. Felly, fel rŷch chi hefyd yn gwybod, mae gyda ni gynllun i gyflwyno deddf addysg Gymraeg, sydd yn edrych ar le gallwn ni gryfhau'r fframwaith statudol, ac mae'r cwestiynau hyn yn gymwys iawn yn y cyd-destun hwnnw, rili.
Well, you say 'just encouragement'; we've just stated that there will be a £2 million fund to ensure that it does happen, so it's more than just encouragement. But, in terms of what we can do in terms of enforcement, Bethan's just mentioned the journey that local authorities have been on in terms of their strategic plans, and this is all a part of that. So, I think we need to work in partnership with education providers in order to ensure that people understand the value of this, and that's what's happening. Now, I'm not suggesting that there's no scope in being more specific about this, but progress is now being made, and I want to see what happens with this fund to see where this goes and where the appetite lies. And the response has been very encouraging over the past 12 months, as a result of COVID, so let's try and build on that. In terms of your broader question—and you've raised it in more than one area—you are referring to the legal levers. So, as you also know, we have a plan to introduce a Welsh language education Act, which looks at where we can strengthen the statutory frameworks, and all of these questions are applicable in that context.
Mae Alun Davies eisiau dod mewn yn fyr iawn. Cyn i Alun ddod mewn, a fyddai pum munud ychwanegol gennych chi i fod gyda ni tan twenty-five-to, os yw hynny'n iawn?
Alun Davies wants to come in very briefly. But, before he does, Minister, would you have an additional five minutes to remain with us until twenty-five-to this morning?
Byddai.
Yes.
Grêt.
Great.
Does gyda ni ddim amser i fynd mewn i'r Mesur mae'r Gweinidog wedi trafod ynglŷn ag addysg Gymraeg, ond dwi eisiau gwybod beth sydd gyda fe mewn golwg. So, licen i ofyn i'r Gweinidog ysgrifennu at y pwyllgor gyda manylion unrhyw Fesur mae e'n cynnig, a licwn i, yn benodol, wybod, Weinidog, sut ydych chi'n mynd i gefnogi a gweithredu'r hawl i addysg Gymraeg? Dwi'n rhiant i blentyn sy'n byw dwy filltir o'r ffin, ac rwy'n dweud wrthych chi fod gyda fe'r hawl i addysg Gymraeg, ond dwi ddim yn deall sut rydym ni;n gweithredu'r hawl honno, a gweithredu'r hawliau sy'n fwy pwysig na'r hawliau eu hun, dwi'n meddwl, ambell waith. So, liciwn i wybod sut ydych chi'n mynd i sicrhau fframwaith deddfwriaethol i sicrhau bod gyda ni ein hawliau ni fel Cymry Cymraeg.
We don't have time to go into the Welsh language education Act just mentioned by the Minister, but I'd like to know what he has in mind. So, I'd like to ask the Minister to write to the committee with details of any proposed Bill, and I'd like to know, specifically, Minister, how you intend to support and implement the right to Welsh-medium education. I'm a parent of a child that lives two miles from the border, and I'm telling you he has a right to Welsh-medium education, but I don't understand how we can act on that right, and that's the most important thing. It's more important than the rights themselves. So, I'd like to know how you're going to ensure a legislative framework that will ensure that we have rights as Welsh speakers.
Wel, Cadeirydd, os caf i, rwy'n cytuno gydag Alun Davies—mae angen sicrhau bod hawliau'n cael eu gwireddu, a bod gan bobl, mewn realiti, fynediad at addysg Gymraeg ym mhob rhan o Gymru, os ydyn nhw eisiau cael hynny. Felly, byddwn i'n hapus iawn i ysgrifennu at y pwyllgor ar hynny.
Well, Chair, if I may, I agree with Alun Davies—we need to ensure that rights are delivered and that people, in reality, have access to Welsh-medium education in all parts of Wales, if they so desire. So, I'd be happy to write to the committee on that.
Diolch yn fawr iawn am hynny. Ocê, yn olaf, fe wnawn ni symud at Carolyn Thomas.
Thank you very much for that. Finally, we'll move to Carolyn Thomas.
Okay, thank you. Could you give me details of the current programme for introducing standards for the Welsh language, and also regarding regulations for, say, utility companies, such as water suppliers, regarding standards, and also regarding Transport for Wales, as well?
Wel, mae gyda ni ymrwymiad maniffesto, fel rŷch chi'n gwybod, i gyflwyno rheoliadau penodol i roi dyletswyddau o dan y safonau ar Drafnidiaeth Cymru cyn diwedd tymor y Senedd, a byddwn ni'n sicr yn gwneud hynny. Felly, mae hynny'n ymrwymiad clir y byddwn ni'n ei ddelifro.
O ran safonau ar gyrff eraill, jest i fynd yn ôl at y sgwrs roeddem ni'n ei chael ychydig yn gynharach, rwyf eisiau dau beth i ddigwydd. Hynny yw, y peth cyntaf yw deall yn well sut mae'r safonau wedi arwain at helpu siaradwyr i ddefnyddio mwy o Gymraeg. Mae hynny'n mynd i ddweud pethau pwysig wrthym ni, rwy'n credu, am sut i fynd i'r afael gyda'r safonau pellach. Felly, mae hynny'n bwysig o ran blaenoriaethu ac o ran cyrff penodol ac ati—felly, defnydd, a beth yw'r impact ar ddefnydd. A'r ail beth yw'r cwestiwn o daith iaith yr oeddwn i'n sôn amdani'n gynharach: beth yn union yw'r rhwystredigaethau i fudiadau a chwmnïau sy'n eu hatal rhag darparu gwasanaethau yn y Gymraeg? Ac mae hynny hefyd yn bwysig o ran ein dealltwriaeth ni o sut i fynd i'r afael â chynllun safonau ar drafnidiaeth. Felly, dyna fy nghynllun i—edrych ar drafnidiaeth. Wedyn, yn sgil beth rŷn ni wedi deall o'r ddau ddarn hynny o waith, cynllun ar ôl hynny i'r safonau pellach.
Well, we have a manifesto commitment, as you will know, to introduce specific regulations to place duties under the standards on Transport for Wales before the end of the Senedd term, and we will certainly do that. So, that is a clear commitment that we will deliver.
In terms of standards in other areas, just to return to a conversation we had a little earlier, I want two things to happen. The first is to better understand how standards have assisted people in making more use of the Welsh language. That'll tell us some important things about how to deal with further standards. So, that's important in terms of prioritisation and certain organisations and bodies—so, usage and what the impact is on usage. And the second thing is the language journey that I mentioned earlier: what exactly are the barriers and frustrations for companies and organisations that prevent them from providing Welsh-medium services? And that's also important in terms of our understanding of how we tackle a standards scheme in transport. So, that's my plan—to look at transport. And then, in light of lessons learned from those two pieces of work, we will look at a plan for further standards.
Iawn? Oedd yna rywbeth arall roeddech chi eisiau gofyn, Carolyn, neu ydych chi'n hapus gyda hynny?
Okay? Was there anything else you wanted to ask, Carolyn, or are you content?
No, that's fine. Thank you.
Ocê. Weinidog, o ran y safonau ar drafnidiaeth, ydym ni'n gallu cael amserlen o ran pryd fyddan nhw'n dod mas?
Minister, in terms of the standards in transport, can we have a timetable for when they're likely to be published?
Maen nhw'n cymryd rhwng 12 a 18 mis i fynd drwy'r Senedd. Dwi ddim wedi penderfynu eto beth yw'r amseru ar gyfer eu cyflwyno nhw. Mae'n gwestiwn o sicrhau bod adnoddau ar gael ar hyn o bryd i bob math o bethau. Mae cynllun llywodraethol gyda ni, ac mae lot o bethau yn digwydd ym maes y Gymraeg. Mae angen sicrhau ein bod ni'n—beth bynnag yw'r gair Cymraeg—'sequence-o', y defnydd o'n hadnoddau ni. Rôn i'n rhoi prawf i'r cyfieithydd ar y pryd yn fanna. [Chwerthin.]
They take between 12 and 18 months to go through the Senedd. I haven't yet decided what the timetable for laying those is. There is a question of ensuring that resources are available at the moment for all kinds of things. We have a programme for government. There's a great deal happening in terms of the Welsh language. We need to ensure that we sequence—whatever the Welsh word is for 'sequence'—the use of our resources. I was testing the simultaneous translator there. [Laughter.]
'Sequence-o'—mae hwnnw'n air Cymraeg da, ydy.
'Sequence-o'—that's a very good Welsh word, yes.
Fel ein bod ni'n dodi'r pethau yma mewn rhyw fath o drefn. Allwn ni ddim gwneud pob un peth ar y diwrnod cyntaf, felly, ond byddaf yn sicr yn barod i'ch cadw chi yn y darlun ynglŷn ag amseru hynny.
We need to ensure that these things are properly sequenced. We can't do everything on the first day, but I will be certainly happy to keep you in the picture on the timetable for that.
Diolch. Rwy'n siŵr, dros y misoedd a'r blynyddoedd i ddod, y byddwn ni'n trafod safonau'n aml gyda chi. Os ydych chi'n gallu ein cadw ni yn y darlun, fel rŷch chi'n dweud, byddwn ni'n ddiolchgar iawn.
Wel, dŷn ni wedi dod at ddiwedd ein cwestiynau. Rwy'n meddwl fod gan Heledd Fychan cwestiwn atodol, neu ydych chi jest yn rhoi eich llaw i fyny?
Thank you. I'm sure that, over the next months and years, we will be discussing standards regularly with you. If you can keep us in the picture, as you say, we'd be very grateful.
Well, that brings us to the end of our questions. I think Heledd Fychan may have a supplementary, or are you just putting your hand up?
Oes, sori. Gan fod gennym ychydig funudau, gaf fi ofyn un cwestiwn arall? Un rhan chawsom ni ddim cyfle i fynd ar ei hôl oedd yr Eisteddfod Genedlaethol. Rydych chi'n nodi yn eich papur i ni y £200,000 ychwanegol. Ydych chi'n dal i weithredu o gwbl ar yr adolygiad fuodd dan gyfnod Leighton Andrews o ran yr Eisteddfod Genedlaethol, a oedd yn sôn ynglŷn ag ariannu'r Eisteddfod fel corff cenedlaethol oherwydd ei bwysigrwydd, yn arbennig yng nghyd-destun miliwn o siaradwyr Cymraeg. Oes yna unrhyw drafodaethau am fwy o gefnogaeth i'r Eisteddfod neu ai dyna ni o ran y £200,000?
Yes. As we do have a few moments, could I ask one further question? We didn't have an opportunity to pursue the issue of the National Eisteddfod. You note in your paper the additional £200,000. Are you still acting on the review carried out by Leighton Andrews, which talked about funding the Eisteddfod as a national body because of its importance, particularly in the context of a million Welsh speakers. So, are there any discussions on further support for the Eisteddfod or is that it in terms of the £200,000?
Wel, mae'r £200,000 yn un o'r ffyrdd rŷm ni wedi cefnogi'r Eisteddfod Genedlaethol. Y llynedd, fe wnaethom ni ddarparu rhyw £500,000 i'r Eisteddfod i'w cefnogi nhw gyda'r costau a oedd yn gysylltiedig â gohirio Eisteddfod Tregaron. Felly, mae amryw o ffyrdd rŷn ni wedi cefnogi'r Eisteddfod yn hynny.
Rwy'n credu bod yn rhaid edrych ar rôl yr Eisteddfod. Fel rwyf wedi'i ddweud, mae'r Eisteddfod wedi bod yn un o'r enghreifftiau gloyw iawn o arloesi yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, felly mae angen edrych ar beth mwy y gallwn ni ei wneud yn y maes hwnnw, a hefyd ar rôl yr Eisteddfod. Mae eisteddfodau Tregaron a Llŷn yn mynd i fod yn digwydd mewn ardaloedd lle mae'r impact ar gymunedau Cymraeg o'r farchnad dai yn sbesiffig iawn ac yn heriol iawn. Felly, beth allwn ni ei wneud i ddefnyddio cyfle euraid y ffaith bod yr Eisteddfod yn mynd i fanna i greu impact ehangach ar y cymunedau hynny o ran defnydd y Gymraeg a hyrwyddo'r Gymraeg? Felly, yn sicr mae rôl gyda ni i gael y trafodaethau hynny.
Well, the £200,000 is one of the ways in which we've supported the National Eisteddfod. Last year, we provided some £500,000 to support the Eisteddfod with the cost related to the postponement of the Tregaron Eisteddfod. So, there are many ways in which we have supported the Eisteddfod in that sense.
I think we do have to look at the role of the Eisteddfod. As I've said, the Eisteddfod has been one of the glowing examples of innovation over the past year, so we need to look at what else we can do in that area and also look at the role of the Eisteddfod. The Tregaron and Llŷn eisteddfodau are going to be happening in areas where the impact on Welsh-speaking communities in terms of the housing market is very specific indeed and very challenging. So, what can we do to use the golden opportunity of the Eisteddfod visiting those areas to have a broader impact in those communities in terms of the use of the Welsh language and the promotion of the Welsh language? So, we certainly have a role in having those discussions.
Ydy o'n bosib cael unrhyw fath o ddiweddariad o ran pa gynnydd fuodd ar yr adroddiad hwnnw o ran yr Eisteddfod Genedlaethol i'r pwyllgor yma a gweld sut mae eich cynlluniau chi rŵan a lle mae'r Eisteddfod Genedlaethol o ran cynlluniau'r dyfodol, os gwelwch yn dda?
Would it be possible for this committee to have an update on what progress has been made on that report in terms of the National Eisteddfod, to see where your plans are now and where the National Eisteddfod is in terms of future plans, please?
Wel, rwyf yn nwylo'r Cadeirydd yn hynny o beth.
Well, I'm in the Chair's hands in that sense.
Wel, os oes amser gennych chi nawr, o fewn y munudau nesaf—
Well, if you have time within the next few minutes—
Rôn i'n gofyn a fyddem ni'n gallu cael diweddariad, ddim heddiw felly, ond efallai ar bapur yn sgil y cyfarfod yma.
I was asking whether we could have an update, not today necessarily, but perhaps on paper as a result of this meeting.
A fyddech chi'n hapus i ysgrifennu atom ni gyda mwy o fanylion?
Would you be happy to write to us with more detail?
Wrth gwrs.
Of course.
Diolch.
Thank you.
Iawn. Wel, dŷn ni wedi gofyn i chi am nifer o—. Wel, dŷch chi wedi dweud y byddwch chi'n ysgrifennu atom ni gyda rhai pwyntiau. Byddwn ni'n danfon llythyr atoch chi yn atgoffa chi am y pwyntiau hynny. Byddwn ni hefyd yn danfon transgript atoch chi o'r hyn dŷch chi wedi'i ddweud, fel drafft. Ond, am nawr, gaf fi ddiolch i chi, Weinidog, i Bethan Webb hefyd ac i Owain Lloyd, am eich amser y bore yma? Dwi'n siŵr y gwnawn ni siarad eto â chi yn fuan, ond diolch yn fawr iawn am eich tystiolaeth.
Okay. Well, we've asked you for a number of—. Well, you've said that you'll write to us on some specific points. We will write to you reminding you of those points. We will also send you a transcript of what you've said, as a draft. But, for now, may I thank you, Minister, and Bethan Webb and Owain Lloyd, for your time this morning? I'm sure that we'll speak to you again soon, but thank you very much for your evidence.
Diolch yn fawr iawn i chi.
Thank you very much.
Dŷn ni nawr am gymryd egwyl fach, felly dwi'n gofyn i'r Aelodau fod yn ôl ymhen rhyw 10 munud, os gwelwch yn dda—erbyn 10:40, os gwelwch yn dda.
We will now take a short break, so I ask Members to return in 10 minutes' time, please—so, to return by 10:40, please.
Gohiriwyd y cyfarfod rhwng 10:30 a 10:45.
The meeting adjourned between 10:30 and 10:45.
Croeso nôl i’n sesiwn ni y bore yma. Dŷn ni’n symud ymlaen at eitem 3, sef sesiwn yn craffu ar waith Comisiynydd y Gymraeg. Hoffwn i groesawu ein tystion ni y bore yma. Fyddech chi’n gallu cyflwyno eich hunain, plîs, ar gyfer y Cofnod?
Welcome back to our meeting this morning. We move on to item 3, general scrutiny of the Welsh Language Commissioner. I'd like to welcome our witnesses, and I ask them to introduce themselves for the Record.
Siŵr iawn. Aled Roberts, Comisiynydd y Gymraeg, a fy nghydweithwyr.
Of course. I'm Aled Roberts, Welsh Language Commissioner, and I'm joined by my colleagues.
Gwenith Price, a dwi'n gweithio fel cyfarwyddwr i Gomisiynydd y Gymraeg.
Gwenith Price, and I work as director in the Welsh Language Commissioner's office.
Dyfan.
Diolch. Dyfan Sion ydw i. Dwi hefyd yn gyfarwyddwr yn swyddfa'r comisiynydd.
Thank you. I'm Dyfan Sion. I'm also a director in the commissioner's office.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Croeso i’r tri ohonoch chi. Mi wnawn ni symud yn syth at ein cwestiynau ni y bore yma. Yn gyntaf, byddwn ni’n gofyn am rai o’r materion sydd wedi effeithio, efallai, ar ddefnydd y Gymraeg dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf. Allwch chi amlygu prif effeithiau Brexit ar y defnydd o’r Gymraeg mewn cymunedau dros Gymru, os gwelwch yn dda?
Thank you very much, and a warm welcome to all three of you. We'll move immediately to questions. First of all, we'll be asking about some of those things that have impacted the use of the Welsh language over the past year. Can you outline the main impacts of Brexit on the use of the Welsh language in communities across Wales?
Dwi’n meddwl ei bod hi’n dal yn ddyddiau cynnar, i ddweud y gwir. Fe wnaethon ni roi tystiolaeth i’r pwyllgor blaenorol yn arwain i fyny at Brexit a oedd yn bendant yn rhestru rhai pryderon ynglŷn â rhaglenni penodol oedd yn cael eu cyllido gan yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, a’r rheini’n ceisio creu gweithlu mwy medrus a dwyieithog. Yn amlwg, rydym ni’n dal i aros i weld sut yn union fydd y rhaglenni yna'n cael eu cyllido i’r dyfodol. Dwi’n gwybod bod y Llywodraeth yn rhannol yn ddibynnol ar sut mae Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig yn mynd i drosglwyddo’r arian i Gymru, a faint o arian. Mae yna gyhoeddiadau wedi cael eu gwneud yr wythnos yma, ond dwi’n meddwl bod angen gweld manylder y rhaglenni y mae'n bosibl eu cyllido oherwydd hynny.
Wrth edrych ymlaen ymhellach, wrth gwrs, dwi’n meddwl mai ein prif bryder ni ydy maes amaeth yn benodol, a hynny o achos canran y gweithlu sy’n defnyddio’r iaith Gymraeg bob dydd. Mae yna ardaloedd yn y gorllewin a’r gogledd a’r canolbarth lle mae dros 90 y cant o’r gweithlu yn siarad Cymraeg, ac eto rydym ni’n aros i weld beth yn union fydd y cynigion o fewn y Bil amaeth o ran y gefnogaeth ariannol sydd yn cael ei rhoi i’r sector yn hytrach na’r polisi amaethyddol cyffredin. Mi oedd gennym ni rai pryderon, i ddweud y gwir, ynglŷn â’r Papur Gwyn. Mi oedd yna orbwyslais, dwi’n credu, ar gefnogaeth amgylcheddol, a hynny hwyrach yn osgoi rhai o’r gofynion o ran yr iaith Gymraeg. Mae’r sector amaeth yng Nghymru yn wahanol iawn i Loegr. Mae yna ganran go uchel o ffermydd bach teuluol, a dwi’n meddwl bod yn rhaid i ni fod yn ofalus iawn ynglŷn â pha fath o gyfundrefn sydd yn cael ei rhoi ymlaen i ddisodli y gyfundrefn yn y gorffennol.
I think it's still early days, if truth be told. We provided evidence to your predecessor committee in the lead-up to Brexit, which certainly outlined some concerns about specific programmes that were funded by the European Union and aimed at creating a more skilled, bilingual workforce. Clearly, we are still waiting to see exactly how these programmes will be funded for the future. I know that the Government is partly reliant on the approach adopted by the UK Government and how funding is to be transferred to Wales and how much funding will be available. Some announcements were made this week, but I do think we need to see the detail of those programmes that can be funded as a result.
In looking further to the future, of course, I think our main concern is in agriculture specifically, because of the percentage of the agricultural workforce that uses the Welsh language on a daily basis. There are areas in the west and north of Wales, as well as mid Wales, where over 90 per cent of the workforce is Welsh speaking, and, again, we are waiting to see exactly what the proposals will be within the agriculture Bill in terms of financial support provided to the sector in place of the common agricultural policy. We did have some concerns about the White Paper. There was an overemphasis, in my view, on environmental support, and that perhaps didn't meet some of the requirements in terms of the Welsh language. The agriculture sector in Wales is very different to the sector in England. There is quite a high percentage of small family farms here in Wales, and I do think that we have to be very careful in terms of the kind of system established in place of the common agricultural policy.
Diolch am hynny, gomisiynydd. Mae Alun Davies eisiau dod i mewn ar hyn.
Thank you for that, commissioner. Alun Davies wants to come in at this point.
Diolch yn fawr. Dwi’n cytuno gyda dadansoddiad y comisiynydd. Gaf i ofyn i chi, Aled, pa fath o sgyrsiau neu gyfarfodydd neu drafodaethau dŷch chi wedi eu cael gyda’r Gweinidog a gyda Llywodraeth Cymru i ddatgan y pryder sydd gen ti? A sut ydych chi wedi bod yn gweithio ar hynny i sicrhau bod y materion yma’n dod i’n golwg ni?
Thank you very much. I agree with the commissioner's analysis. May I ask you, Aled, what kind of conversations or meetings or discussions you've had with the Minister and with the Welsh Government to express your concerns? And how have you been working on that in order to ensure that these issues are brought to our attention?
Mi oedd yna gyfarfodydd efo’r Gweinidog blaenorol a hefyd efo swyddogion. Mi oedd yna drafodaethau yn bennaf ar y cynnyrch premiwm a’r sylw oedd yn cael ei roi i’r Gymraeg o fewn hynny. Rydym ni hefyd, ar ôl yr etholiad, wedi ysgrifennu at bob Gweinidog yn cynnig cefnogaeth er mwyn datblygu polisïau sydd, yn ein barn ni, yn gefnogol i’r Gymraeg. Mae yna lythyr wedi’i dderbyn yn derbyn y gwahoddiad i gyfarfod, ond dydy'r cyfarfod yna ddim wedi cymryd lle efo'r Gweinidog newydd hyd yn hyn. Dwi'n meddwl bod yna ddyddiad erbyn hyn yn y calendr—hwyrach bydd Dyfan yn cadarnhau hynny—ond, yn amlwg, mae yna lythyrau wedi cael eu gyrru ar ôl y cyfarfodydd yna yn cadarnhau ein barn ni, ac mi oedd yna hefyd ymateb llawn i'r ymgynghoriad ar y Papur Gwyn a oedd yn manylu ar ein union bryderon ni ynglŷn â'r sefyllfa. Y gwir amdani ydy bod yna ardaloedd yn y mannau dwi wedi cyfeirio atyn nhw lle mae dros draean o'r boblogaeth yn gweithio o fewn y sector amaethyddol, felly mae unrhyw ddirywiad o ran ffermydd teuluol yn mynd i wanhau sefyllfa'r Gymraeg o fewn yr ardaloedd yna, ac mae o'n creu pryder i ni fel corff.
There were meetings with the previous Minister and with officials. There were discussions mainly around the premium and the attention given to the Welsh language in that context. Since the election, we've written to every Minister offering support in the development of policies that, in our view, would be supportive of the Welsh language. A letter has been received accepting that invitation to meet, but that meeting hasn't taken place with the new Minister to date. I think there is a date in the calendar now—and perhaps Dyfan could confirm that—but, clearly, correspondence has been exchanged following those meetings confirming our views, and there was also a full response to the consultation on the White Paper, which set out in detail our exact concerns about the situation. The truth of the matter is that there are areas in those geographical areas that I've mentioned where over a third of the population work in agriculture, and therefore any decline in terms of family farms is going to weaken the position of the Welsh language within those areas, and it is a cause of concern for us an organisation.
Diolch i chi am hynny. Dwi'n cytuno â'r dadansoddiad, fel y dywedais i. Efallai—dwi ddim eisiau treulio gormod o amser ar hyn y bore yma—y byddai'n syniad pe bai'r comisiynydd yn ysgrifennu at y pwyllgor gyda'i ddadansoddiad, yn fwy manwl nag y mae'n gallu ei roi ar lafar y bore yma, ac ar sail y llythyr hwnnw, liciwn i fel pwyllgor ysgrifennu at y Gweinidog amaeth i sicrhau bod y materion yma yn cael eu hystyried yn ddwys iawn yn ystod y trafodaethau sy'n digwydd ar hyn o bryd.
Thank you for that. I agree with that analysis, as I said earlier. Perhaps—and I don't want to spend too much time on this this morning—it would be an idea if the commissioner were to write to the committee with his analysis, in more detail that can be provided this morning, and on the basis of that document, I would like to see us as a committee writing to the Minister for agriculture to ensure that these issues are considered fully in any discussions that are ongoing at the moment.
Rydyn ni—
We are—
Ie, buaswn i'n—
Yes, I would—
Sori, Cadeirydd.
Apologies, Chair.
Na, dim o gwbl. Buaswn i'n hapus iawn; os ydych chi'n hapus i ysgrifennu atom ni gyda hwnna, byddwn ni'n gallu trafod fel pwyllgor ymhellach am hyn hefyd. Ond dwi'n meddwl bod hynna'n syniad da. Ond, gomisiynydd, ie, sori.
No, not at all. I would be more than happy; if you're willing to write to us on that, then we can discuss it further as a committee. But I think that's a very good idea. Commissioner.
Ie, siŵr iawn. Ac rydyn ni hefyd wedi bod yn trafod efo arbenigwyr yn y maes. Dŷn ni yn cynnal cyfarfodydd rheolaidd efo undebau'r ffermwyr, ond hefyd mae yna bapurau sydd wedi cael eu rhannu efo'r Sefydliad Materion Cymreig gan Gareth Wyn Jones—
Of course, yes. And we've also been having discussions with experts in the area. We do hold regular meetings with the farming unions, but also there have been papers that have been shared with the Institute of Welsh Affairs by Gareth Wyn Jones—
Ie, rwy wedi gweld y—
Yes, I've seen the—
—athro ym Mhrifysgol Bangor, a Tim Jones a oedd yn gweithio efo Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru. Felly, rydym ni'n rhannu'r un pryderon, dwi'n meddwl. Felly, nid ein dadansoddiad ni yn unig ydy o, ac yn bendant rydym ni yn gryf o'r farn bod angen bod yn ofalus iawn ynglŷn â'r gyfundrefn sydd yn cael ei mabwysiadau yma.
—who is a professor at Bangor University, and Tim Jones who worked with Natural Resources Wales. So, I think we share the same concerns. It's not simply our analysis of the situation and we are certainly strongly of the view that we need to be very careful in terms of the system that is adopted here in Wales.
Dwi'n cytuno â chi. So, os ydych chi'n gallu casglu pethau at ei gilydd—
I would agree with you on that. So, if you could gather that information together—
Ie, mi wnawn ni.
Yes, we will.
—a'u hanfon at y pwyllgor, mi fydd y pwyllgor yn ystyried hynny—
—and send it to the committee, the committee can then consider that—
Siŵr iawn.
Yes.
—ac mi fuaswn i'n gobeithio ysgrifennu at y Gweinidog neu ddod â'r Gweinidog o flaen y pwyllgor.
—and I would hope we would then write to the Minister or bring the Minister to the committee.
Iawn.
Fine.
Diolch, gomisiynydd. Mae gan Tom Giffard rai cwestiynu am un o'r heriau eraill sydd wedi bod dros y flwyddyn diwethaf, sef COVID, wrth gwrs.
Thank you. Tom Giffard has some questions on one of the other challenges that we've faced over the past year, namely COVID.
Thank you, Delyth, and thank you, commissioner. I hope you don't mind, I'm still trying to improve my Welsh, so I'll ask my questions in English today, but hopefully it'll be a long-term thing, with any luck.
So, I know you've previously expressed, commissioner, that you've had concerns that the pandemic would have a disproportionate impact or effect on the Welsh language. So, what do you think will be the main impacts, and what needs to happen to address them?
Fe roddwyd tystiolaeth i'r pwyllgor blaenorol, a dwi'n meddwl eu bod nhw wedi rhannu rhai o'n pryderon ni, ac roeddwn i'n falch iawn bod y Llywodraeth wedi ymateb yn bositif i adroddiad y pwyllgor blaenorol. Dwi'n meddwl hefyd ei fod o'n werth cymryd sylw o'r ffaith bod y Llywodraeth wedi cynnwys o fewn eu rhaglen waith y gwaith wnaethpwyd gan y grŵp o fewn y bartneriaeth—yr is-bwyllgor o fewn y bartneriaeth—a wnaeth ddarn o waith da, dwi'n meddwl, ar effaith COVID ar y cymunedau.
Dwi'n meddwl erbyn hyn ein bod ni'n dechrau gweld yn union beth ydy rhai o'r goblygiadau. Dwi'n meddwl mai'r prif bwynt buaswn i'n ei wneud ydy hwyrach y pwysau sy'n mynd i fod ar ail gartrefi. Mae'r newid o ran patrymau gwaith a phatrymau byw, dwi'n meddwl, jest yn—. Dydy o ddim yn fater newydd, os ydyn ni'n onest; dwi'n cofio pan oeddwn i'n y brifysgol yn ysgrifennu traethawd hir ar effaith ail gartrefi ar y gorllewin ac mae hynny mwy o flynyddoedd yn ôl na beth fuaswn i'n licio ei gyfaddef. Ond dwi'n meddwl bod y patrymau yn ystod y chwe mis neu'r flwyddyn diwethaf wedi amlygu maint y pwysau erbyn hyn a dwi'n awyddus iawn—. Er bod y Llywodraeth wedi cyhoeddi bod ganddyn nhw gynlluniau penodol i fynd i'r afael efo'r broblem, rydyn ni'n dal yn aros am gyfarfod efo’r Gweinidog, felly does yna ddim digon o fanylder ynglŷn â'r cynlluniau ar hyn o bryd a dwi'n awyddus iawn i weld beth yn union ydy natur yr ymateb gan y Llywodraeth.
Yn amlwg, mae yna gwestiynau o ran trethi, mae yna gwestiynau hefyd ynglŷn â natur y ddeddfwriaeth gynllunio a pha mor hawdd fydd o i newid rhai o'r cyfundrefnau, ond dwi'n meddwl bod angen bod yn ofalus iawn achos y gwir amdani ydy bod yna genhedlaeth sydd yn cael eu prisio allan o fyw o fewn eu cymunedau os ydyn ni ddim yn ofalus a fuasai neb eisiau gweld hynny. Er os ydyn ni'n llwyddo neu os ydy'r Llywodraeth yn llwyddo yn eu tasg, y gwir amdani, wrth gwrs, ydy bod yna broblemau dybryd o ran cryfder yr economi o fewn yr ardaloedd hynny hefyd, felly nid jest mater o ddelio ag ail gartrefi ydy o, ac mae yna gwestiwn o ran diboblogaeth sydd wedi bod yn broblem ers nifer o flynyddoedd.
Mae COVID hefyd, cofiwch, yn creu cyfleoedd. Dwi ddim yn meddwl ein bod ni eisiau bod yn or ddu. Y gwir amdani ydy hwyrach fod rhai o'r bobl sydd wedi cael eu denu i Gaerdydd ers nifer o flynyddoedd o achos bod yn rhaid ichi symud i Gaerdydd er mwyn cael swydd sydd yn apelio atoch chi—hwyrach fod y patrymau yna'n newid hefyd. Ond yn amlwg, fedran nhw ddim aros o fewn eu cynefin os ydy'r prisiau tai tu hwnt i'w gallu nhw, felly dwi'n meddwl bod angen inni weld yn union beth sydd gan y Llywodraeth i'w ddweud.
Y peth arall, dwi'n meddwl, a dwi newydd gyfeirio at hynny rili, ydy'r patrymau yma o ran gweithio o bell. Dwi'n meddwl o ran y Gymraeg fod yn rhaid inni fod yn ofalus ynglŷn â sut mae hynny'n mynd i weithio hefyd oherwydd mae yna gyfleoedd ar hyn o bryd i bobl sydd hwyrach yn simsan eu hiaith neu'n ddysgwyr i atgyfnerthu sgiliau iaith am eu bod nhw'n gweithio o fewn gweithle lle mae'r Gymraeg yn cael ei defnyddio yn feunyddiol. Ac er bod y ffaith ein bod ni i gyd yn medru gweithio gartref rŵan yn apelio i raddau, mae'n rhaid inni ddeall yn union beth ydy goblygiadau hynny o ran gallu pobl i ddefnyddio'r Gymraeg o fewn y gweithle, a sicrhau bod cynlluniau megis cynllun y Llywodraeth i greu hybiau—. Er eu bod nhw wedi dweud o fewn y cynlluniau yna eu bod nhw'n mynd i sicrhau bod y Gymraeg yn ganolog, mae'n rhaid i ni fel corff edrych yn benodol ac yn fanwl ar beth yn union sy'n cael ei gynnig a'r trefniadau sydd y tu ôl i'r cynigion yna.
Evidence was provided to your predecessor committee, and I think they shared some of our concerns, and I was very pleased that the Government responded positively to that committee's report. I think it's also worth noting the fact that the Government has included within its work programme the work done by the group within the partnership—the sub-committee of the partnership—which did good work on the impact of COVID on communities.
I think we are now starting to see exactly what some of the implications are. I think the main point I would make is to emphasise the pressure in terms of second homes. The changes in working patterns and changes in people's way of life, I think, just—. It's not a new issue, if we're honest; I remember when I was at university I wrote a dissertation on the impact of second homes on the west of Wales, and that's more years ago than I would like to admit. But I do think that the patterns that have developed over the past six to 12 months have highlighted the scale of the pressures now, and I am very eager—. Although the Government have announced that they have specific plans to tackle this problem, we are still waiting for a meeting with the Minister, so we don't have enough detail as to what the plans are at the moment, and I am very eager to see exactly what the nature of the Government's response will be.
Clearly, there are questions in terms of taxation, there are also questions in terms of the nature of planning legislation and how easy it will be to change some of those regimes, but I do think we do need to be very careful, because the truth of the matter is that there is a generation of people who are being priced out of living within their communities if we're not careful, and nobody wants to see that. Although if we or if the Government succeeds in their task, the truth of the matter is, of course, that there are grave problems in terms of the strength of the economies in those areas too. So, it's not just a matter of dealing with the issue of second homes; there are questions in terms of depopulation that have been a problem over many years.
And COVID too, of course, provides opportunities. I don't think that we should be too negative. The truth of the matter is that perhaps some of those people who have been attracted to Cardiff over a number of years, because you have to move to Cardiff in order to get a job that appeals to you—perhaps those patterns might be changing too. But, clearly, they can't remain within their communities if the house prices are prohibitive and beyond their means, so I think we need to see exactly what the Government has to say on this issue.
The other thing, I think, and I've just referred to this in a way, is these patterns in terms of remote working. In terms of the Welsh language, we have to be very careful as to how that's going to work too, because there are opportunities at the moment for people who, perhaps, are uncertain in their language skills or are Welsh learners to actually reinforce their language skills because they work within a workplace where the Welsh language is used on a daily basis. And although we can all work from home, and that's appealing to a certain extent, we have to understand exactly what the implications of that are on people's ability to use the Welsh language in the workplace, and to ensure that plans such as the Welsh Government's plans to create hubs—. Although they've said within those plants that they will ensure that the Welsh language is central to them, we as an organisation have to look specifically and in detail at what exactly is being proposed and the arrangements underpinning those proposals.
And almost the reverse question, I guess: are there opportunities you see? I think you've touched on some of them, but what are the key opportunities you see for language growth brought about by the pandemic?
Yn bendant, dwi'n meddwl ein bod ni wedi gweld newid. Mae'r adroddiad sicrwydd byddwn ni'n cyfeirio ato fo yn nes ymlaen yn dangos bod rhai sefydliadau wedi ymateb i'r cyfle, i ddweud y gwir, ac wedi bod yn gwneud pethau yn y Gymraeg hwyrach tu hwnt i beth y buaswn i wedi gallu meddwl amdanyn nhw rai misoedd os nad blynyddoedd yn ôl. Felly, mae yna bosibiliadau.
Mae yna hefyd, wrth gwrs, gyfleoedd i bobl ifainc aros o fewn cadarnleoedd y Gymraeg yn hytrach na gorfod symud lawr i Gaerdydd, ond mae'n rhaid inni sicrhau hefyd fod y cyfleoedd yna yn wirioneddol yn digwydd. Felly, dwi ddim yn ei weld o'n ddu i gyd, ond dwi yn meddwl bod angen inni sicrhau bod y Gymraeg yn ganolog i'r newidiadau yma a bod gwir ystyriaeth yn cael ei rhoi i'r Gymraeg o ran y newidiadau.
Certainly, yes, I think we have seen changes. The assurance report that we'll refer to later on does demonstrate that some organisations have responded positively to these opportunities and have been doing things through the medium of Welsh that would have been beyond what we could have imagined some months or years ago. So, there are possibilities and opportunities.
There are also opportunities for young people to remain within the Welsh-speaking heartlands rather than having to move to Cardiff to access work, but we do also have to ensure that those opportunities are tangible. So, I don't see it as being totally bleak, but I do think that we need to ensure that the Welsh language is at the heart of these changes and that real consideration is given to the Welsh language in terms of the changes.
I think you talked a bit about established long-term traditionally Welsh-speaking communities and the impact the pandemic has had on those communities. I'm interested in your view on, again, the reverse kind of communities. I live in Bridgend, where, perhaps, the language isn't as well established. What impact do you think it has on communities like that?
Oes, mae yna gyfleoedd, achos mae yna enghreifftiau rydyn ni'n cyfeirio atyn nhw yn yr adroddiad sicrwydd lle mae yna gyfleoedd i bobl, er enghraifft, cael gweld meddyg neu nyrs yn rhithiol, lle hwyrach fuasai'r un cyfle ddim yn digwydd pe bai'r apwyntiad yn digwydd wyneb yn wyneb. Ond, dydy'r patrwm yma, ar hyn o bryd, beth bynnag, ddim yn gyson ar draws Cymru. Felly, mae yna rhai byrddau iechyd, mae yna rhai meddygfeydd sydd wedi achub ar y cyfle, i raddau, i ddefnyddio'r dechnoleg a bod yna ystyriaeth yn cael ei rhoi i'r Gymraeg o ran gwneud y mwyaf o'r cyfle. Felly, mae hynny yn agor drysau sydd ddim wedi bodoli o'r blaen. Ond, y gwaith fydd angen i ni ei wneud ydy lledaenu arfer da a gwneud yn siŵr bod y cynnig yna ddim yn unig ar gael ym Mhen-y-bont, er enghraifft, ond ei fod o ar gael ym Mlaenau Gwent neu yn Nhor-faen. Felly, dwi'n awyddus iawn i sicrhau, yn hytrach na'n bod ni hwyrach yn cwyno am ddiffyg cyfleoedd a phethau, ein bod ni'n dweud, 'Wel, gwrandewch, a ydych chi'n ymwybodol o'r cyfleoedd yma sydd wedi cael eu creu o achos bod mwy o ddefnydd yn cael ei wneud o dechnoleg nag sydd wedi bod o'r blaen?'
Well, yes, there are opportunities because there are examples, and we refer to this in the assurance report, where opportunities have arisen for people to see a GP or a nurse virtually, where perhaps the same opportunity wouldn't have been available if that appointment were to take place face to face. But, the pattern at the moment is not consistent across Wales. So, there are some health boards and some surgeries that have taken the opportunity to use technology and consideration is given to the Welsh language in terms of making the most of the opportunities of working virtually. So, that certainly does open doors that haven't, perhaps, existed in the past. But, what we will need to do is to disseminate good practice and to ensure that that offer isn't only available in Bridgend, for example, but that it's available in Blaenau Gwent or in Torfaen, too. So, I'm very eager to ensure that, rather than us complaining about a lack of opportunities, that we say, 'Well, listen, are you aware of these opportunities that have been created because more use is now made of technology?'
Okay. One last one, then, from me. To what extent do you feel the Welsh language is central to the Welsh Government's more general post-pandemic rebuilding plans?
Wel, rydyn ni wedi gofyn iddyn nhw sicrhau bod hynny'n digwydd. Dwi'n meddwl bod yna—. Mae yna le i ni fel gwlad ymfalchio yn y ffaith bod yna esiamplau lle mae'r Gymraeg wedi bod yn rhan o'r ystyriaeth o ran cynlluniau argyfwng, a phethau felly. Wrth gwrs, mae yna enghreifftiau hefyd lle, ar hyn o bryd, dwi un ai'n ymchwilio neu wedi dod i'r casgliad fy mod i'n anfodlon efo'r trefniadau sydd wedi cael eu rhoi mewn lle. Felly, y brif neges dwi'n trio ei dweud ydy, oes, mae yna enghreifftiau lle mae'r Gymraeg wedi cael ei hystyried ac wedi bod yn ganolog, ond, ar hyn o bryd, rhan o'r gwaith dwi angen ei wneud ydy sicrhau bod pob adran o fewn y Llywodraeth yn ystyried y Gymraeg o fewn eu cynlluniau ailadeiladu. Ac mae hynny'n rhan bwysig o'n gwaith ni. Dyna pam rydyn ni wedi cynnig nid yn unig ein bod ni'n cyfarfod efo pob pwyllgor o fewn y Senedd, ond hefyd ein bod ni'n cyfarfod efo pob Gweinidog a phob adran fel eu bod nhw'n deall yn union beth yw'n gofynion ni fel corff ar ran siaradwyr Cymraeg, fel ein bod ni'n gwneud y gorau o'r cyfle o ran unrhyw gynlluniau ailadeiladu.
Well, we have asked them to ensure that the Welsh language is central. I think there is scope for us as a nation to take pride in the fact that there are examples where the Welsh language has been a central consideration in terms of contingency planning, and so on. Of course, there are also examples where, at the moment, I am either investigating or I've come to the conclusion that I am not content with the arrangements that have been put in place. So, my main message is that, yes, there are examples where the Welsh language has been taken into account and has been a central consideration, but, at the moment, part of the work that I need to do is to ensure that every department within Government considers the Welsh language within its rebuilding plans, and that's an important part of our work. That's why we've offered not only to meet with every committee in the Senedd, but also that we meet with every Minister and every department too, so that they understand exactly what our requirements are as a body on behalf of Welsh speakers, so that we do make the most of this opportunity in terms of any rebuilding plans.
Mae hwnna'n rhywbeth sy'n rili bwysig i ni fel pwyllgor hefyd, comisiynydd. Diolch ichi am yr ymatebion hynny.
That's very important for us as a committee too, commissioner. Thank you for those responses.
Byddai'n dda nawr i symud ymlaen at yr eitem nesaf, lle byddwn ni'n canolbwyntio ar eich adroddiad sicrwydd a'r adroddiad blynyddol, a rhai pethau penodol fel yna. Gaf i ofyn yn gyntaf i Carolyn Thomas i ddod i mewn, plis?
If we could move on, now, where we will focus on your annual report, your assurance report and some specifics there. So, can I invite Carolyn Thomas to ask questions?
Diolch. Just going back to the cyber attack on the commission's ICT systems, what were the cost and resource implications in order to rectify the commission's services? And to what extent are systems now secure for the future?
Iawn, ocê. Dwi'n meddwl y byddwch chi wedi darllen yn yr adroddiad blynyddol fod yr effaith yn un sylweddol ac yn bellgyrhaeddol. I bob pwrpas, mi wnaethon ni am gyfnod golli pob darn o wybodaeth roedden ni'n ei ddal, yn cynnwys manylion hyd yn oed swyddogion cyswllt o fewn sefydliadau. Yn y lle cyntaf, yn amlwg, roedd yn rhaid diogelu ein systemau, felly mi oedd yna ofynion gan yr heddlu a chan y Comisiynydd Gwybodaeth. Mi oedd yna hefyd angen inni ddiogelu data personol staff, a hefyd achwynwyr, ac mi oedd rhaid inni ailystyried ein blaenoriaethau, i ddweud y gwir, o 10 Rhagfyr ymlaen.
Dwi'n meddwl ein bod ni wedi llwyddo i ailadeiladu'n eithaf cyflym. Dyna'r farn o'r tu allan, beth bynnag, ond yn amlwg, hefyd, mi oeddem ni—yn ffodus—wedi cytuno ar strategaeth technoleg gwybodaeth efo'r Llywodraeth, ac wedi derbyn sicrwydd o ran buddsoddiad gan y Llywodraeth i ailadeiladu ein systemau ni. Ond jest ar fin cychwyn oedd hynny. Mi oedd Dyfan yn gyfrifol am y strategaeth yn y lle cyntaf, a hwyrach ei fod o'n well i mi drosglwyddo iddo fo, er mwyn cadarnhau'n union y symiau a'r effaith a gafwyd, ac i ba raddau erbyn hyn rydyn ni wedi ailadeiladu.
Okay. I think you will have read in the annual report that the impact was significant and far-reaching. To all intents and purposes, we did for a period lose every piece of information and data that we held, including details of contact officers within various organisations. In the first instance, we had to safeguard our systems, and there were requirements from the Information Commissioner and the police. There was also a need for us to safeguard personal staff data, and the data of complainants too, and we had to reconsider our priorities, if truth be told, from 10 December onwards.
I think we have succeeded in rebuilding quite swiftly. That's certainly been the external view of things, but clearly, too, we were fortunate in that we had agreed an ICT strategy with Government, and had received assurances in terms of Government investment in rebuilding our systems. But that was at the very early stages, but Dyfan was responsible for the initial strategy, and perhaps he's better placed to answer your questions, so that he can confirm the exact sums and the impacts, and to what extent we have now rebuilt. Dyfan.
Dyfan.
Diolch am hynny. I droi at y cwestiwn cyllid a chostau yn y lle cyntaf, mi wnaethon ni wario swm o £272,000 yn ystod y flwyddyn ariannol. Roedd hynny'n swm cyfalaf wnaethom ni wario ar ddatblygiadau TG. Beth sy'n anodd, oherwydd fel mae Aled wedi cyfeirio ato fo, mi oedd ganddom ni gynlluniau ar gyfer trawsnewid ein hamgylchedd TG ni beth bynnag, felly beth sy'n anodd ydy tynnu'r ymosodiad seiber allan o hynny'n benodol. Ond mi oedd yna rai pethau roedd rhaid i ni eu gwneud i ymateb i'r ymosodiad fydden ni ddim wedi gwneud fel arall. Er enghraifft, adfer data, mudo data, y gwaith wnaethon ni hefyd o ddadansoddi'r ymosodiad seiber. Mae costau'r darnau yna o waith yn benodol yn rhyw £25,000. Ond wrth gwrs, mi oedd ganddom ni ddatblygiadau TG llawer ehangach na hynny.
Jest i roi cyd-destun cyflym ichi ac adeiladu ar beth ddywedodd Aled, mi wnaeth yr ymosodiad chwalu ein systemau ni yn llwyr, a beth oedd rhaid i ni ei wneud wedyn oedd dau beth, mewn gwirionedd, sef ymateb i’r argyfwng, ynysu'r systemau, cydweithio efo'r heddlu ac asiantaethau eraill. Ond ochr yn ochr â hynny hefyd, ailadeiladu ein systemau ni, a gwneud hynny mor gyflym â phosib, mewn gwirionedd, a mor ddiogel â phosib, fel ein bod ni fel sefydliad a staff yn weithredol mor fuan â phosib ar ôl yr ymosodiad. Mi wnaethon ni hynny drwy sefydlu cyfrifon Office 365 yn y lle cyntaf; cydweithio efo'r Llywodraeth hefyd ar sicrhau offer, gliniaduron i staff, ac yn sgil y camau yna wnaethon ni gymryd yn y dyddiau cyntaf, mi oeddem ni'n weithredol efo cyfrifon newydd ychydig ar ôl wythnos yn dilyn yr ymosodiad.
Mae yna waith pellach wedi'i wneud wedyn ar ddadansoddi, mudo, ceisio adfer data, ac rydyn ni wedi gallu adfer peth o'n data, ond nid popeth, o bell ffordd. Mae yna lawer o waith yn parhau hefyd, er ein bod wedi gallu cymryd nifer o gamau yn dilyn yr ymosodiad i ailgychwyn. Mae yna'n dal dipyn o waith i'w wneud yn ystod y flwyddyn ariannol yma, ac mi fydd hynny'n parhau, yn sicr am weddill y flwyddyn.
Felly er enghraifft, rydyn ni wedi lansio gwefan newydd ym mis Awst; mae yna waith yn parhau ar ddiogelwch seiber; rydyn ni'n gweithio tuag at achrediad cyber essentials plus; mae yna waith hefyd ar gronfeydd data mewnol, felly mae yna fwriad i adeiladu system rheoli perthynas â chwsmeriaid newydd; ac mae yna waith yn parhau hefyd ar ddarnau penodol eraill o waith fel cronfa enwau lleoedd a'n rhwydweithiau ni. Felly, dyna flas o beth wnaethom ni. Fel y dywedais i, mae yna gostau penodol, ond mae'n anodd tynnu hynny allan o'r gwaith TG ehangach a wnaethom ni.
Thank you for that. To turn to the question of funding and costs first of all, we spent £272,000 during the financial year, and that was capital that we spent on ICT and what's difficult—as Aled's referred to, we did have plans in place for the transformation of our ICT environment in any case—so what's difficult is to untangle the cyber attack from all of that. There were some things that we had to do in response to the attack that we wouldn't have done otherwise. For example, we had to restore data, migrate data; there's also the work that we did in analysing the cyber attack, and the costs of those pieces of work are some £25,000. But of course, we did have broader ICT developments in train.
But just to give you some quick context and to build on Aled's comments, the cyber attack destroyed our systems entirely and we had to do two things: we had to respond to the crisis in isolating our systems, working with the police and other agencies, but along with that, we had to rebuild our systems, and we had to do that as swiftly as possible in a manner that was as safe as possible so that we as an institution and our staff were operational as soon as possible following that attack. We did that by establishing Office 365 accounts, we worked with Government in securing laptops for staff, and as a result of the steps that we took in those first days, we were operational with new accounts after a little over a week following the attack.
There has then been further work in analysing, migrating and restoring data. We have been able to restore some of the data but not everything by any means. There's a great deal of work ongoing too, although we have been able to take a number of steps following the attack to recommence our work. There is still work to be done during this financial year, and that will continue, certainly for the rest of the year.
For example, we've launched a new website in August; work is ongoing on cyber security; we are working towards the cyber essentials plus accreditation; there is work ongoing on internal databases, so we intend to build a new customer relationship management system; and there is work continuing on specific pieces of work such as the place names database and our networks. So, that gives you a flavour of what we did. Of course, there are specific costs, but it's difficult to disentangle that from the wider ICT work that we carried out.
Diolch am y manylder yna. Carolyn, a oedd unrhyw beth ychwanegol roeddech chi eisiau ei ofyn?
Thank you for that detail. Carolyn, was there anything else that you wanted to ask?
Thank you for the detailed response. That was really good. What is the current progress status of the commissioner's five-year report? The annual report makes—sorry, notes—that the five-year report will be published in summer 2021. So, I guess with everything that's been going on, it's set things back a little bit, maybe, but if you could just respond to that, thank you.
Ie, mi oedd yna oedi yn y broses, yn amlwg. Mi oedd yna oedi o ran ein holl brosesau, a dweud y gwir, ond mi oedd yna hefyd benderfyniad a gymerwyd gennym ni i oedi'r cyhoeddi o achos etholiad y Senedd, a hefyd, y ffaith yn wreiddiol ein bod ni'n mynd i gyhoeddi ein hadroddiad tua'r un adeg ag y byddai yna Lywodraeth newydd yn cael ei chreu. Felly, mi oedd yna benderfyniad a gafodd ei wneud yn ystod y flwyddyn i oedi'r cyhoeddi tan ddiwedd mis Medi, o achos ein bod ni hefyd wedi gorfod oedi cyhoeddiad ein hadroddiad blynyddol, ac mi fyddem wedi bod yn cyhoeddi'r ddau tua'r un adeg, beth wnaethon ni oedd penderfynu cyhoeddi'r adroddiad pum mlynedd ar gychwyn mis Hydref. Felly, ar hyn o bryd, dwi'n meddwl wythnos nesaf y byddwn ni'n cyhoeddi. Mae Dyfan yn rhoi ei law i fyny. Felly, dwi'n gobeithio bod popeth wedi cael ei gwblhau, ac yn bendant mae'r fersiwn Gymraeg wedi'i chwblhau—dwi'n gobeithio, felly, y bydd popeth wedi cyrraedd yn ôl o'r cyfieithwyr. Dyfan.
Yes, there was a delay in the process, clearly. There was a delay in terms of all of our processes, but there was also a decision taken by us to postpone publication because of the Senedd elections. Also, originally we were to publish our report around the same time as the new Government was being put in place, so there was a decision taken during the year to postpone publication until the end of September, because we'd also had to postpone the publication of our annual report. We would have been publishing both around the same time, so what we did was to publish the five-year report at the beginning of October. So, at the moment, I think we will publish that next week. Dyfan has his hand up. So, I'm hoping that everything is in place and has been completed, and certainly the Welsh language version has been finalised, so I very much hope that everything will have got back from our translators, too.
Ie, jest i ategu, mi fyddwn ni'n cyhoeddi'r adroddiad y mis nesaf. Mae efo'r dylunwyr ar hyn o bryd, felly yn sicr erbyn diwedd mis Hydref bydd yr adroddiad yna wedi'i gyhoeddi.
Yes, just to echo that, we will be publishing the report next month. It's with the designers at the moment, so by the end of October, that report will have been published.
Byddwn ni'n falch iawn o allu cael copi pan mae hwnna ar gael. Carolyn—
We look forward to receiving a copy when it's available. Carolyn.
Rydych chi ar frig y rhestr.
You're top of the list.
O, rwyf i'n falch iawn i glywed hynny.
I'm very pleased to hear that.
Okay, so just a last question: what evaluation, if any, has been given by the commissioner in relation to the impact of Iaith Gwaith—I hope I pronounced that right—Working Welsh since its inception 15 years ago?
Rydyn ni'n falch iawn o'r cynllun, a dweud y gwir. Pwrpas y cynllun yn y lle cyntaf oedd rhoi lle i siaradwyr Cymraeg a dysgwyr adnabod siaradwyr Cymraeg wrth iddyn nhw gerdded i mewn i unrhyw dderbynfa, neu wrth iddyn nhw ymwneud ag unrhyw gorff cyhoeddus. Mae'r bathodyn bach oren, dwi'n meddwl, wedi bod yn llwyddiant yn ystod y cyfnod, ac mae hynny o achos bod sefydliadau'n credu yn hynny, ac eu bod nhw'n gweld ei fod o'n fuddiol, hefyd, nid yn unig o ran y cyhoedd ond hefyd o ran trafodaethau mewnol ymysg staff, lle hwyrach y tueddiad fyddai i ddechrau sgwrs yn Saesneg, ond yn amlwg erbyn hyn, os ydych chi'n gweld rhywun yn gwisgo'r bathodyn oren, mae yna le iddyn nhw ddechrau sgwrs yn Gymraeg. Mae hynny'n bwysig.
Mae'r cynllun wedi datblygu hefyd ar hyd y blynyddoedd. Erbyn hyn, nid jest bathodynnau ydyn nhw. Mae yna gortyn gwddf yn cael ei ddefnyddio, a hefyd rydyn ni ar hyn o bryd yn dilyn trafodaethau yn ystod COVID, i fod yn onest—rydyn ni yn siarad efo byrddau iechyd ynglŷn â phwytho'r bathodyn i mewn i wisgoedd gwaith er mwyn sicrhau hylendid o fewn y gweithle.
Felly, mae'r peth yn datblygu. Mae yna hefyd gynlluniau gan fyrddau iechyd i gynnwys y bathodyn oren ar yr hysbysfyrddau uwchben gwelyau cleifion, fel bod staff hefyd yn gallu gweld bod cleifion yn siarad Cymraeg, fel eu bod nhw'n dechrau sgwrs yn Gymraeg. Felly, mae yna fudd i hynny.
Fe wnaethon ni ymgyrch ym mis Tachwedd y llynedd a oedd yn dathlu 15 mlynedd, a’r gred bryd hynny oedd bod yna dwf aruthrol yn y galw am gynnyrch Iaith Gwaith, ond yn anffodus, wrth gwrs, mi oedd yr ymosodiad seiber yn meddwl bod neb yn gallu cysylltu efo ni i ofyn am fathodynnau, ac ati. Felly, mi oedd yn rhaid i ni aros tan lansio'r wefan newydd ym mis Awst i ni allu ymateb. Ond dwi'n meddwl bod o'n werth dweud wrthoch chi bod y twf sydd wedi bod ers i ni lansio'r wefan newydd rhyw dri mis yn ôl wedi bod yn eithaf sylweddol hefyd. Yn y mis cyn lansio'r wefan, doedd yna ond tua 650 o geisiadau am fathodynnau ac ati, ac yn y mis ar ôl lansiad y wefan, roedd hynny wedi cynyddu i dros 1,800, felly teirgwaith y galw, bron. A rydyn ni'n awyddus i sicrhau bod y galw yna yn parhau. Mae yna gynlluniau i ni greu neu godi ymwybyddiaeth yn ystod y flwyddyn yma. Rydyn ni'n mynd i hyrwyddo Iaith Gwaith eto. Os ydych chi'n mynd ar ein gwefan ni, un o'r pethau cyntaf fyddwch chi'n gweld ydy bathodyn Iaith Gwaith ac yn annog pobl i ofyn am y cynnyrch sydd, wrth gwrs, yn rhad ac am ddim hefyd, sydd yn syndod i rai sefydliadau pan maen nhw'n dod atom ni.
A dwi'n meddwl hefyd erbyn hyn dwi'n falch iawn o'r ffaith bod y rhaglen yma yn cael ei chydnabod yn rhyngwladol. Mae'r Alban wedi mabwysiadu cynllun tebyg ond bod eu bathodyn nhw'n biws yn hytrach nag yn oren. Ac mi roeddwn i'n rhoi tystiolaeth i'r Dáil yn Iwerddon wythnos diwethaf, ac maen nhw wedi gofyn am fwy o fanylion ynglŷn â sut rydyn ni wedi llwyddo efo'r cynllun. Felly, dwi'n gobeithio bydd Cymru ar y blaen unwaith eto o ran dangos y ffordd ymlaen i ieithoedd lleiafrifol, a sut rydyn ni'n cynyddu defnydd o fewn cyrff cyhoeddus trwy rywbeth sydd yn syniad eithaf syml, i ddweud y gwir, ond sydd yn gweithio.
We are very proud of the scheme. The purpose originally was to provide a space for Welsh speakers and Welsh learners to identify Welsh speakers as they walk into any reception area, or as they engaged with any public body. That small orange badge has been a great success, and I think that's because organisations believe in it, and they see that it's beneficial, not only in terms of the public but also in terms of internal conversations and discussions among staff, where the tendency in the past may have been to start a conversation in English, but clearly now if you see someone wearing that orange badge then they can start that conversation in Welsh. That's important.
The plan has also developed over the years. It's not just a badge now. There are lanyards available, and we are currently following discussions during COVID, if truth be told. We are talking to health boards on embroidering the badge into uniforms in the health service to ensure hygiene within the workplace.
So, this is developing. There are also plans in place by health boards to include the orange badge on noticeboards above patient beds, so that staff too can see that patients are Welsh speakers, so that they can start those conversations in Welsh, too. So, there's a great benefit to that.
We did carry out a campaign in November of last year that celebrated 15 years since its inception, and the belief at that time was that there had been huge growth in the demand for the Iaith Gwaith products, but unfortunately the cyber attack meant that nobody could contact us to request badges, and so on. So, we did have to wait until our new website was launched in August before we could respond. But I think it is worth telling you that the growth that there's been since we launched the new website some three months ago has been quite substantial, too. In the month before we launched the website, there were only some 650 requests for badges and so on, and in the month after the launch of the website, that had increased to over 1,800, so that's a threefold increase in demand, almost. And we're eager to ensure that that demand is maintained. We have plans in place to raise awareness during this year. We are going to be promoting Iaith Gwaith. If you go on our website, one of the first things that you will see is the Iaith Gwaith branding encouraging people to request these products which, of course, are available free of charge, which is surprising to some organisations when they first approach us.
I also think that I'm now very proud of the fact that this programme is recognised internationally. Scotland has adopted a similar scheme, although they have a purple badge rather than an orange one, and I provided evidence to the Dáil in Ireland just last week, and they've asked for more detail on how we've succeeded with this particular programme. So, I very much hope that Wales will be in the vanguard once again in terms of showing the way forward for minority languages, and how we increase the use of the Welsh language in public bodies through something that, essentially, is quite a simple idea, but works very well.
Ac mae hynny, Comisiynydd, yn rhywbeth fyddai o ddiddordeb mawr i'r pwyllgor, achos mae materion rhyngwladol hefyd yn dod o dan ein gorchwyl ni. Felly, os byddai fe'n bosibl i gael mwy o wybodaeth am y trafodaethau yna rydych chi wedi eu cael gyda'r Dáil, byddai hwnna'n wych. Diolch yn fawr. Ocê, wnawn ni symud ymlaen at gwestiynau gan Heledd Fychan.
That's certainly something that would be of interest to the committee, because we're also responsible for international relations. So, if we could have more information about those discussions that you've had with the Dáil, then that would be excellent. Thank you very much. Okay, we'll move on to some questions from Heledd Fychan.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, a diolch am fod efo ni heddiw. Eisiau holi oeddwn i ynglŷn â safonau'r Gymraeg a chynllunio iaith Gymraeg, a faint o gynnydd sydd wedi'i wneud o ran cyflwyno safonau'r Gymraeg ar sectorau newydd.
Thank you very much, and thank you for joining us today. I wanted to ask about Welsh language standards and Welsh language schemes, and what progress has been made in introducing Welsh language standards in new sectors.
Iawn. Dim cynnydd o gwbl ers 2018, ac mae hynny o achos rydyn ni wedi gwneud gwaith paratoi o ran rhai sectorau, ond doedd yna ddim symud gan y Llywodraeth flaenorol. Wnes i ysgrifennu at y cyn Weinidog yn awgrymu mod i'n awyddus i symud ymlaen. Rydyn ni wedi yn ystod y flwyddyn olaf yma gwneud gwaith ymchwilio a gwaith paratoi o ran rheilffyrdd. Mae hynny wedi bod ar batrwm sydd dipyn bach yn wahanol i beth wnaethpwyd yn flaenorol, er mwyn sicrhau ein bod ni'n ymateb i ofynion y Llywodraeth. Ond, wrth gwrs, mater i'r Llywodraeth ydy paratoi'r safonau ac wedyn gosod y rheoliadau.
Rydych chi'n ymwybodol ein bod ni wedi cynnwys gofynion o ran rhaglen safonau o fewn ein galw o ran y maniffesto. Dwi hefyd wedi ysgrifennu at y Gweinidog, Jeremy Miles, yn awgrymu bod hi'n amser i ni fwrw ymlaen rŵan. Dwi wedi derbyn cadarnhad ei fod o'n awyddus i symud ymlaen efo rheoliadau efo rheilffyrdd, ac fe ges i gyfarfod dydd Llun lle roedd o'n awyddus i'n swyddogion ni a swyddogion y Llywodraeth drafod materion sy'n ymwneud â defnydd sydd yn deillio o safonau, a hefyd 'taith iaith' roedd o'n ei alw fo, ynglŷn â sut mae defnydd yn cynyddu statws y Gymraeg o fewn cyrff ac o fewn yr ymwneud rhwng dinasyddion a'r cyrff yna. Felly, ar hyn o bryd mi fydd yna symud o ran rheilffyrdd. Dŷn ni'n awyddus i symud ymhellach.
Mae yna hefyd, dwi'n meddwl—. Heblaw am gyflwyno safonau newydd, mae yna gwestiwn pwysig iawn ynglŷn â chyrff sydd yn cael eu creu o'r newydd ond sydd y tu allan i'r safonau ar hyn o bryd. Mae yna gyrff eithaf pwysig o ran twf y Gymraeg, yn fy marn i, sydd y tu allan. Mae hynny'n cynnwys Addysg a Gwella Iechyd Cymru, sydd efo rhan flaengar o ran hyfforddiant yn y sector iechyd a gofal, sydd yn mynd i fod yn bwysig iawn i'r dyfodol. Felly, mae'r trafodaethau efo'r Llywodraeth yn adeiladol ar hyn o bryd, ond beth dwi eisiau ceisio sicrhau ydy rhaglen am oes y Senedd yma sydd yn dangos yn union beth ydy'r bwriadau gan y Llywodraeth, achos—
No progress since 2018, and that is because we've done preparatory work in terms of certain sectors, but there was no movement in the previous Government. I wrote to the former Minister stating that I was eager to make progress. We have over the past 12 months done some research work and some preparatory work in terms of the railways, and that's been on a slightly different pattern to what was adopted previously, in order to ensure that we respond to the Government's requirements. But, of course, it is a matter for Government to prepare standards and regulations and to lay those regulations.
You'll be aware that we included requirements in terms of the standards programme within our manifesto. We've also written to the Minister, Jeremy Miles, suggesting that it is now time for us to start to make progress. I've received confirmation that he is eager to make progress with regulations in relation to the railways, and I had a meeting on Monday where he was eager for our officials and Government officials to discuss issues around the use of the Welsh language emerging from standards, and also the 'language journey', as he described it, in terms of how usage is increasing the status of the Welsh language within organisations and in terms of the engagement of citizens with those organisations. So, at the moment there will be some progress in terms of the railways. We're eager to make further progress.
There is as well, I think—. In addition to introducing new standards, there is an important question about organisations that are newly created but are outwith the standards regime at the moment. There are some quite important bodies that have been created that are important to the growth of the Welsh language, in my opinion, and they're outwith the system at the moment. That includes Health Education and Improvement Wales, which has a prominent role in terms of training in the health and care sectors, and that will be extremely important for the future. So, discussions with Government are constructive at the moment, but what I want to try and ensure is that we have a programme in place for the term of this Senedd, setting out exactly what the Government's intentions are, because—
Comisiynydd, mae'n flin iawn gen i dorri ar draws. Dwi'n meddwl bod gan Alun Davies gwestiwn atodol ar rywbeth penodol wnaethoch chi ei ddweud. Sori i dorri ar draws. Alun.
Commissioner, I do apologise for interrupting. I think Alun Davies had a supplementary question on something specific that you said. Sorry for interrupting. Alun.
Diolch. Wrth ymateb i gwestiynau Heledd, dŷch chi wedi bod yn trafod y prosesau dŷch chi wedi bod yn mynd trwyddyn nhw, a liciwn i ofyn eich barn chi ynglŷn â hynny. Dwi'n cymryd eich bod chi wedi cael sgyrsiau cychwynnol gyda Jeremy, y Gweinidog newydd, ond mae'r berthynas yn amlwg yn mynd i gymryd amser i gydio ac i ddatblygu—dwi'n deall hynny. Ydych chi'n ffeindio bod—? Fel Gweinidog ffeindiais i fod y broses o greu safonau yn un hynod, hynod o fiwrocrataidd a doeddwn i ddim yn mwynhau'r broses o gwbl. Roeddwn i'n gweld bod yna ormod o amser, gormod o adnoddau yn frankly cael eu gwastraffu ar system fiwrocrataidd a oedd ddim yn creu hawliau newydd i Gymry Cymraeg ond oedd yn creu strwythurau rheoleiddo. Mi oedd yna gyfnodau pan y gwnes i oedi'r broses achos doeddwn i ddim yn gweld gwerth i'm swyddogion i wastraffu amser gyda hi, pan gallen nhw fod yn gwneud rhywbeth fuasai'n helpu a hybu defnydd y Gymraeg. Ydych chi wedi ffeindio bod y broses yma—? Dwi'n gwybod, pan ddaethoch chi i mewn roeddech chi wedi dweud bod eisiau symleiddio'r broses, a dwi'n credu eich bod wedi dweud hynny yn yr adroddiad ac ar lafar y bore yma, ond sut ydych chi'n gweld y broses fel mae hi heddiw? Achos, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud, dwi ddim yn eistedd yn Siambr ein Senedd ni yn aros i weld safonau newydd. Dwi ddim yn credu eu bod nhw'n creu lot fawr oni bai am fiwrocratiaeth.
Thank you. In responding to Heledd's questions, you've been discussing the processes that you've gone through, and I would like to ask for your view on that. I assume that you will have had initial conversations with Jeremy as the new Minister, but that relationship is going to take time to take hold and to develop—I understand that. Do you find that—? As a Minister, I found that the process of drawing up standards was extremely bureaucratic and it wasn't a process that I enjoyed at all. I saw that too much time and too many resources, frankly, were being wasted in a bureaucratic system that didn't create new rights for Welsh speakers but did create regulatory structures. There were times when I paused the process because I didn't see the value in my officials wasting time on it when they could have been doing something that would help and promote the use of the Welsh language. So, have you found that this process—? I know that when you came into post you said that you wanted to simplify the process, and I think that you made that clear in your responses this morning and in your report, but how do you see the process as it is today? Because, I have to say that I'm not sitting in the Chamber of our Senedd waiting to see new standards coming forward. I don't think that they create a great deal other than the bureaucracy involved with them.
Mae hi'n broses fiwrocrataidd, ond beth dwi'n awyddus i ganolbwyntio arno fo ydy traweffaith y broses yna unwaith mae'r rheoliadau wedi cael eu cyflwyno a'u cwblhau, rili. Yr unig beth fedraf i ei ddweud ydy dwi wedi gweld, yn ystod y pum mlynedd ers i reoliadau cael eu cyflwyno yn erbyn cynghorau, er enghraifft, newid byd o ran hawliau siaradwyr Cymraeg a dysgwyr i ddefnyddio'r Gymraeg efo'r cyrff yna. Yn yr un modd, dwi'n meddwl ein bod ni wedi gweld, hyd yn oed yng nghyfnod COVID, newid mawr rhwng beth fyddem ni wedi disgwyl ei weld yn y cyfnod cyn safonau i beth sydd wedi digwydd o achos bod safonau yn bodoli. Dwi—
It is a bureaucratic process, but what I'm eager to focus on is the impact of that process once the regulations have been made and passed, really. The only thing that I can say is that I have seen, over the past five years since regulations were put in place for local authorities, for example, a transformation in terms of the rights of Welsh speakers and learners to use the Welsh language with those bodies. And likewise, I think that even during COVID we have seen a major change to what I would have expected to have seen in the period prior to standards compared to what has happened because standards are in place. I—
Rho enghraifft i fi. Rho enghraifft o hynny.
Give me an example. Give an example of that.
Reit. Dwi ddim yn credu, er enghraifft, y buaswn i'n derbyn gohebiaeth neu'n cael cynnig gwasanaeth yn y Gymraeg gan fwrdd iechyd Betsi Cadwaladr o dan y drefn cyn safonau, o achos eu bod nhw'n gwybod bod yna ofynion o ran y ffordd maen nhw'n cynllunio eu gwasanaethau. Dwi ddim yn credu y byddai Llywodraeth Cymru wedi mynd ati i sicrhau bod yr holl ddefnydd ar gael yn y Gymraeg o ran yr argyfwng iechyd. A dwi'n dweud hynny hefyd wrth i mi gymharu fy mhrofiadau i fel dinesydd yng Nghymru i brofiadau pobl eraill, yn Iwerddon, yng Nghanada, lle does yna ddim gofynion tebyg ar gyrff cyhoeddus. Felly, dwi wedi newid fy marn ar safonau, i fod yn onest efo chi, ers 2011. Roeddwn i yn agnostig, achos roeddwn i wedi cael profiad fel arweinydd cyngor o gynlluniau iaith, ac roeddwn i'n gweld bod cynlluniau iaith yn broses fiwrocrataidd, lle doedd yna ddim traweffaith. Erbyn hyn, dydw i ddim yn gweld, efo fy nghyngor i yn Wrecsam, er enghraifft, unrhyw broblem efo nhw'n nodi fy newis iaith ac yn sicrhau bod pob ymwneud â fi erbyn hyn, yn ddigidol, yn y Gymraeg. Nawr, dyna'r draweffaith.
Dwi'n cytuno efo chi bod y broses ei hun yn fiwrocrataidd, ond dim ond unwaith mae'r broses yna'n digwydd. Ac mae'n rhaid i mi ddelio efo'r broses sydd wedi cael ei gosod lawr ym Mesur y Gymraeg ar hyn o bryd. Beth dwi'n ei wneud ar ôl i'r rheoliadau gael eu gosod ydy dwi i fod i reoleiddio yn effeithiol ac yn ymarferol, a beth dŷn ni wedi trio ei wneud yn y cyfnod o'r ddwy flynedd olaf yma ydy gwella'r berthynas, gwneud newidiadau, fel ein bod ni'n cyrraedd pwynt lle mae'r cyrff cyhoeddus yma eu hunain yn gweld safonau o fudd achos bod y safonau yn eithaf clir ynglŷn â dweud wrthyn nhw beth yn union ydy'r gofynion. A dwi'n meddwl ein bod ni wedi gweld newid yn agwedd, ond, yn bwysicach fyth, newid ymddygiad gan y cyrff yma, o achos eu bod nhw'n deall yn union rŵan beth ydy'r gofynion arnyn nhw.
Dwi'n deall hefyd fod angen i ni a'r Llywodraeth fod yn gwbl glir ynglŷn ag osgoi dyblygu, sicrhau bod y gwaith sydd yn rhaid ei wneud cyn inni osod safonau yn effeithiol ac yn effeithlon. Felly dyna pam dwi yn awyddus iawn bod fy swyddogion i yn cyfarfod efo swyddogion y Llywodraeth, ac yn trafod yn agored hwyrach wersi sydd wedi eu dysgu o fewn y prosesau blaenorol, ond hefyd y ffaith ein bod ni wedi newid y ffordd dŷn ni'n gwneud pethau—yn yr achos mwyaf diweddar yma, o ran rheilffyrdd, lle dŷn ni wedi newid y ffordd y mae'r gwaith paratoi yn digwydd, a hwyrach bod yna ffordd inni newid pethau ymhellach, wn i ddim. Mae'n rhaid inni fod yn ofalus ynglŷn â beth sydd yn gyfreithiol gywir i'w wneud hefyd, ond dwi'n awyddus iawn ein bod ni'n lleihau'r fiwrocratiaeth lle mae'n bosib. Ond buaswn i eisiau i chi ganolbwyntio hefyd ar y traweffaith y mae'r rheoliadau yma yn eu cael o ran hawliau siaradwyr Cymraeg i ddefnyddio'r Gymraeg yn eu hymwneud pob dydd efo'r cyrff cyhoeddus sydd o dan y safonau. A dydy'r profiadau yna ddim yn digwydd o fewn cyrff cyhoeddus sydd yn dal yn gweithredu cynlluniau iaith.
Right. I don't believe, for example, that I would receive correspondence or would be offered services through the medium of Welsh by Betsi Cadwaladr health board under the pre-standards regime, because they know that there are requirements placed upon them in terms of the way that they plan their services. I don't believe that the Welsh Government would have ensured that all materials were available through the medium of Welsh in terms of the public health crisis that we've faced. And I say that too as I compare my experiences as a citizen in Wales to the experiences of others, in Ireland, in Canada, where there are no similar requirements placed on public bodies. So I've changed my views on standards, if I'm honest, since 2011. I was agnostic, because I'd had experiences as a council leader of language schemes, and I saw that language schemes were a bureaucratic process, where there was no real impact. But now, I don't see, with my council in Wrexham, for example, any problem with them noting my language of choice and ensuring that every contact that they have with me now, digitally, is through the medium of Welsh. So that's the impact of the standards.
I agree with you that the process itself is bureaucratic, but that process only happens once. And I have to deal with the process as it's set out in the Welsh language Measure at the moment. Now, what I do when the regulations are laid is that I effectively regulate those bodies captured. And what we've tried to do in these past two years is to improve the relationships, to make changes, so that we reach a point where these public bodies themselves see standards as being beneficial to them. Because the standards are quite clear in informing them what the requirements placed upon them are. And I think we have seen a change of attitude, but, more importantly, a change of behaviour among these bodies, because they understand exactly now what the requirements placed upon them are.
I also understand that we and the Government need to be entirely clear in avoiding duplication, in ensuring that the work that needs to be done before we impose standards is effective and efficient. So that's why I am very eager to ensure that my officials do meet with Government officials, and have open discussions about the lessons that have been learnt, within previous processes, yes, but also the fact that we have changed the way that we do things—in the most recent case, in relation to railways, where we have changed the way in which that preparatory work happens, and perhaps there may be scope for further change, I don't know. We do have to be careful as to what is legally correct in this area, but I am very eager that we reduce bureaucracy wherever possible. But I would want you to also focus on the impact that these regulations have in terms of the rights of Welsh speakers to use the Welsh language in their day-to-day engagement with public bodies captured under standards. And those experiences don't happen within public bodies that are still working under language schemes.
Dwi'n ymwybodol bod Heledd eisiau dod nôl, ond, ie, Alun, os dŷch chi eisiau gofyn un cwestiwn arall.
Heledd wants to come back in, but, Alun, if you have one further supplementary.
Roeddwn i'n aelod o'r pwyllgor a oedd wedi gosod hyn i gyd, cofiwch, so dwi wedi cael degawd o fy mywyd i yn gwrando ar bobl yn dweud eu bod nhw'n mynd i ddysgu gwersi, a beth dwi eisiau ei weld yw gweithredu'r gwersi. Dwi'n credu bod y degawd diwethaf wedi bod yn hen ddigon o amser i ddysgu'r gwersi yma. So, dwi eisiau gweld eich swyddfa chi a'r Llywodraeth yn cydweithio, ac actually yn gweithredu'r gwersi yma a lleihau'r fiwrocratiaeth dwi'n ei gweld wrth ymhél â'r safonau ar hyn o bryd. A dwi'n gwybod bod y gyfraith ar fai fan hyn hefyd, gyda llaw.
I was a member of the committee that put all of this in place, so I've had a decade of my life with people telling me that they're going to learn lessons, and what I want to see is action. I think the past decade has been more than enough time to learn these lessons. So, I want to see your office and the Government collaborating, and actually taking action against those lessons learnt, and reducing the bureaucracy that I see attached to standards at present. And I know that the law is at at fault here too.
Fedraf i'ch sicrhau chi bod rhai o'r gwersi sydd wedi eu dysgu wedi cael eu gweithredu yn y gwaith sydd wedi cael ei wneud efo'r rheilffyrdd. Mae'r ddwy ochr yn gweld bod y sefyllfa wedi gwella. Ond beth dwi'n awyddus i'w wneud ydy trafod ymhellach efo'r Gweinidog newydd a'r swyddogion i weld os medrwn ni fynd gam ymhellach o ran y ffordd rydym ni'n gweithredu, achos dwi'n awyddus iawn i sicrhau bod yr holl sectorau posib yn dod o dan safonau. Achos, y gwir amdani ydy, mae yna rai sectorau lle mae yna gyrff yn gofyn am eglurder—
I can give you an assurance that some of the lessons learned have already been implemented in the work that's been done on the railways. Both sides see that the situation has improved. But what I'm eager to do is to have further discussions with the new Minister and his officials to see if we can go a step further in terms of how we operate, because I'm very eager to ensure that all possible sectors are captured under standards. Because, the truth is, there are some sectors where there are bodies asking for clarity—
Dwi'n siŵr bod yna.
I'm sure that there are.
—ynglŷn â safonau, yn hytrach na gweithredu cynlluniau iaith.
—on standards, rather than continuing to implement Welsh language schemes.
Ocê, gwnawn ni symud yn ôl at Heledd Fychan nawr.
Okay, we'll go back to Heledd Fychan.
Diolch yn fawr. Yn dilyn hynny, cwestiwn wnes i ofyn i'r Gweinidog, a buaswn i'n hoffi cael eich barn chi hefyd, os gwelwch yn dda, gomisiynydd. Dros yr haf fe gyhoeddwyd yr adroddiadau gan Gyngor Celfyddydau Cymru ac Amgueddfa Cymru o ran ehangu mynediad. Efallai i chi weld y sylw oedd yn cysylltu'r safonau ar y cyrff cyhoeddus a'r ffaith eu bod nhw felly yn sefydliadau hiliol, gan eu bod nhw ddim felly yn ehangu mynediad ac ati. Oes gennych chi sylw i'w wneud o ran hynny o gwbl, neu eich ymateb chi?
Thank you very much. Following on from that, it's a question that I asked of the Minister, and I'd like to hear your view on this too, if I may? Over the summer, the reports from the Arts Council of Wales and National Museum Wales were published, in terms of expanding access. Perhaps you saw the coverage linking standards placed upon those public bodies and the fact that they were seen as racist organisations, because they weren't expanding access. Do you have any comments to make on that, or what's your response to that?
Ddim ar hyn o bryd, achos mae'r testun yma'n achos ymchwiliad ar hyn o bryd. Felly, byddai hi ddim yn briodol imi wneud unrhyw sylw. Ond byddaf yn fwy na pharod i ddod yn ôl atoch chi i esbonio fy safiad, unwaith dwi wedi dyfarnu yn yr achos.
Not at the moment, no, because this text is subject to investigation at the moment. So, it wouldn't be appropriate for me to comment. But I would be more than willing to return to you to explain my stance, once I've made an adjudication in this case.
Gwych. Diolch yn fawr iawn ichi. Byddai hynny'n cael ei werthfawrogi. Un cwestiwn arall, felly. O ran y safonau, a ydych chi'n gallu rhoi mwy o wybodaeth inni ynglŷn ag ymateb ac adborth rydych chi wedi eu derbyn gan awdurdodau lleol, awdurdodau parciau cenedlaethol a Gweinidogion Cymru ar ôl cyhoeddi'r cod ymarfer cyntaf yn 2020?
Excellent. Thank you very much. That would be very much appreciated. One further question. In terms of standards, can you give us more information about the feedback that you've received from local authorities, national parks authorities and Welsh Ministers following the publication of the first code of practice in 2020?
Iawn. Dwi'n mynd i drosglwyddo rŵan i Gwenith, achos hi sy'n gyfrifol am yr ochr rheoleiddio, felly dwi'n meddwl y bydd hi'n gallu rhoi mwy o fanylder ichi ynglŷn â'r ymateb i'r cod ymarfer.
Right. I will ask Gwenith to take this question, because she's responsible for the regulatory side. She can provide you with more detail on the code of practice.
Diolch yn fawr. Rydyn ni wedi gwneud defnydd helaeth o'r cod ymarfer sydd wedi cael cydsyniad, sef cod ymarfer, fel rydych chi'n ei ddweud, ar gyfer y rheoliadau cyntaf. Eu pwrpas nhw ydy gwneud y gofynion statudol yn glir. Ac, mewn ymateb i ymgynghoriadau ar godau ymarfer, y brif neges gan gyrff cyhoeddus sydd o dan safonau ydy eu bod nhw o werth iddyn nhw i allu deall yn well beth yn union ydy'r disgwyliad mewn ffordd fwy ymarferol. Maen nhw hefyd wedi bod yn cael eu defnyddio, er enghraifft, mewn achosion efo'r tribiwnlys. Mi oedd yna rai heriau yn y cyfnod cyntaf gan reoliadau rhif 1, neu mae yna achosion ynglŷn ag ymchwiliadau lle mae corff wedi methu, ac mae'r tribiwnlys hefyd yn defnyddio'r codau ymarfer i'w helpu nhw i benderfynu achosion. Ers, wrth gwrs, pasio cod ymarfer rhif 1, rydyn ni wedi ymgynghori hefyd erbyn hyn ar god ymarfer rhif 2 hyd at 6, ac wedi cyflwyno'r rheini, yn dilyn eu cwblhau a'u diwygio nhw, i'r Llywodraeth wythnos diwethaf, fel mae'n digwydd. Felly, rydyn ni'n disgwyl cydsyniad ar bedair set arall, ond maen nhw yn cael eu croesawu.
Thank you very much. Yes, we've made a great deal of use of the code of practice that was agreed, and, as you said, it was a code of practice for the first regulations, and their purpose is to make statutory requirements clear. And, in response to consultations on codes of practice, the main message from public bodies captured under standards is that they are of value to them in better understanding what exactly the expectations are in practical terms. They've also been used, for example, in cases related to the tribunal. There were some challenges in the early stages, in terms of the No.1 regulations, and there have been investigations where organisations have failed to deliver, and the tribunal uses the codes of practice to help them make decisions on these cases. Now, since code of practice No.1 was approved, we have consulted on code of practice No. 2 to 6 now. And we have presented those to Government, following their completion and amendment, and that happened last week, as it happened. So, we're expecting consent on another four sets, but they are welcomed.
Heledd, a oedd yna unrhyw beth arall roeddech chi ei eisiau?
Heledd, anything else?
Na. Diolch.
No. Thank you.
Jest cyn inni symud at Hefin David, a allaf jest ofyn, a oes unrhyw gynnydd wedi bod wrth ddylanwadu ar y sector banciau? Roeddwn i'n meddwl byddai hynny'n gwneud ichi wenu.
Just before we move to Hefin David, could I just ask whether there's been any progress in influencing the banking sector? I thought that would make you smile.
Oes, mae yna gynnydd. Ond, i ddweud y gwir, mae yna gwestiwn yn codi ynglyn â—. Yn amlwg, mater o geisio dylanwadu a pherswadio ydy hyn, yn wahanol iawn i'r sefyllfa lle mae yna gorff o dan safonau, lle mae'r gofynion a'r disgwyliadau yn eithaf clir, i ddweud y gwir. Ond, rydyn ni yn cynnal, erbyn hyn, rhwydwaith bancio, a'r meddwl tu ôl, neu'r syniad y tu ôl i hynny, oedd ein bod ni'n ceisio rhannu arfer da a dangos yn union pa mor bwysig oedd cynnig gwasanaethau yn y Gymraeg i gwsmeriaid.
Yn amlwg, rhan o'r broblem yma ydy'r newid sydd wedi bod ym myd bancio yn ystod y degawd olaf yma. Achos y gwir amdani ydy, mi oedd y sector bancio ar flaen y gad o ran cynnig gwasanaethau yn y Gymraeg ar un adeg, ond o achos bod y rhwydwaith canghennau wedi diflannu yn ystod y degawd olaf yma i bob pwrpas, mae yna lawer iawn mwy o bwysau erbyn hyn ar wasanaethau dros y we. Ac mae hynny wedi bod yn dalcen caled i ddweud y gwir, achos mae nifer y cyfarfodydd sydd wedi'u cynnal i geisio perswadio banciau i gynnig apiau, er enghraifft, yn y Gymraeg wedi—. Wel, maen nhw'n niferus iawn. Felly, rydym ni'n parhau i geisio perswadio a rhannu arfer da.
Rydym ni wedi llwyddo efo rhai pethau. Mae gennym ni berthynas dda efo rhai; perthynas sydd ddim cystal efo rhai eraill. Ond mae yna rai—mae'r Principality a Barclays a Natwest, er enghraifft, ar hyn o bryd yn gweithio efo ni. Maen nhw'n awyddus iawn i weld os medran nhw dderbyn y Cynnig Cymraeg. Bydd hynny'n gam pwysig ymlaen, lle byddan nhw'n dweud yn union pa wasanaethau sydd ar gael i'w cwsmeriaid yn y Gymraeg. A hefyd mae gwasanaethau ar gyfer plant a phobl ifanc y Principality, Dylan y ddraig—mae hwnna'n gwbl ddwyieithog. Mae Natwest hefyd, ar hyn o bryd, wedi creu adnoddau cwbl ddwyieithog ar gyfer ysgolion a phethau felly. Felly, mae yna newid, a'r gobaith ydy, unwaith y mae un yn meddwl bod y llall yn cael rhyw fath o, dwi ddim yn gwybod, symud ymlaen, maen nhw'n ei weld o fel rhyw fath o gystadleuaeth.
Ond roeddwn i wedi meddwl, a dweud y gwir, yn ystod y flwyddyn yma, dod i ryw fath o benderfyniad ynglŷn ag am faint chwaneg rydym ni'n mynd i roi'r holl adnoddau yma i mewn i'r banciau ble dyw'r ymateb ddim cystal. Ond dwi'n meddwl bod yr ymateb o ran y Cynnig Cymraeg ac adnoddau ar gyfer plant a phobl ifanc yn ystod y flwyddyn olaf yma wedi creu sefyllfa lle, hwyrach, mae dylanwadu'n dechrau gweithio, ond cawn ni weld. Rydym ni wedi bod yn gwthio apiau a gwasanaethau ar y we a dwi'n dal i fod yn awyddus i weld hynny'n llwyddo, a dweud y gwir. Dwi'n meddwl unwaith rydym ni'n cael un yn creu ap yn y Gymraeg sy'n cael ei wthio gan siaradwyr Cymraeg, hwyrach bydd yna ymateb gwell, ond dwi'n meddwl mai'r gwir amdani ydy bod yna ffordd bell i fynd.
There has been some progress, yes. But, to be honest, there is a question arising—. Clearly, it's a matter of bringing influence to bear and persuading. It's very different to a situation where a body is captured under standards, where the requirements and expectations are quite clear. But, we do have a banking network now, and the thinking behind that was that we would seek to share good practice and to demonstrate exactly how important offering services through the medium of Welsh was to customers.
Clearly, part of the problem in this area is the changes that have taken place in banking over the past decade. Because the truth of the matter is that the banking sector was in the vanguard in terms of offering services through the medium of Welsh at one time, but because the branch network has largely disappeared over the past decade, then there's been far more emphasis on online and digital services. And that has been a tough nut to crack, because the number of meetings held to try and persuade the banks to provide apps through the medium of Welsh—. Well, they are numerous to say the least. So, we continue to persuade the banks and to share good practice with them.
We have succeeded in certain areas. We have a good relationship with some; a relationship that isn't perhaps as positive with others. But the Principality and Barclays and Natwest, for example, are working with us and they're very eager to see whether they can adopt the Cynnig Cymraeg, where they can explain exactly what services are available to their customers through the medium of Welsh. And also there are the services for children and young people provided by the Principality, Dylan the dragon—that is also available bilingually. Natwest have created bilingual resources for schools and so on. So, there is some change and the hope is that once one believes that the other is making some sort of progress, then they see it as a competition and they want to respond.
But I had thought that, over these past 12 months, we could have come to some sort of decision as to how much longer we're going to provide all of these resources for the banks where the response isn't perhaps as positive. But I do think that the response in terms of the Cynnig Cymraeg and the resources for children and young people over the past 12 months has created a situation where perhaps influence is starting to bear fruit, but we'll have to wait and see. We have been pushing apps and online services and I'm still eager to see that succeeding. Because once we get one creating a Welsh language app and that is used by Welsh speakers, then perhaps there will be a better response among the other banks, but I think the truth of the matter is that we have a long way to go.
Diolch am hwnna, comisiynydd. Fe wnawn ni symud ymlaen at Hefin David.
Thank you for that, commissioner. We'll move on to Hefin David.
Thank you. You reached a compromise situation with regard to the Curriculum and Assessment (Wales) Bill with regard to the Government not approving a code of teaching for Welsh, as you'd requested. How effective has that compromised position been?
Dwi'n meddwl ein bod ni'n dal i aros i weld, a dweud y gwir. Fe wnes i ofyn i'r Gweinidog yn y cyfarfod ddydd Llun lle'r oeddem ni arni o ran fframwaith. Dwi'n meddwl bod y sefyllfa o ran ysgolion cyfrwng Saesneg yn hollbwysig. Mae'r targedau sydd o fewn 'Cymraeg 2050', o ran canran y disgyblion mewn ysgolion Saesneg sydd yn rhugl yn y Gymraeg yn 16 oed, yn heriol tu hwnt. A'r gwir amdani ydy, heblaw bod yna newid mawr yn y ffordd mae'r Gymraeg yn cael ei addysgu o fewn ysgolion Saesneg ar hyn o bryd, fyddwn ni ddim yn cyrraedd y pwynt. A dyna pam mi oeddwn i yn awyddus iawn i weld cod statudol, a dweud y gwir. Fel rydych chi'n ei ddweud, cyfaddawd oedd y fframwaith, ond mae'n rhaid i mi dderbyn dyna beth gafodd ei dderbyn gan y Senedd, felly dwi'n awyddus iawn i weld y manylion o fewn y fframwaith ac, yn bwysicach fyth, yr amserlen o ran cyhoeddi'r fframwaith. Mae'r Gweinidog wedi dweud wrthym ni dydd Llun fod y fframwaith yn cael ei ysgrifennu ar hyn o bryd. Mae o'n awyddus iawn y bydd yna gyfarfodydd cyn diwedd y flwyddyn efo ni. Felly, mi fyddwn i'n gwneud popeth o fewn fy ngallu i sicrhau bod y trafodaethau yna yn adeiladol a'n bod ni yn darbwyllo'r Gweinidog o ran unrhyw bryderon sydd gennym ni o ran y fframwaith sy'n cael ei greu.
Mae yna hefyd, wrth gwrs, gwestiynau'n codi o ran y cymhwyster ar ddiwedd y daith o ran ysgolion uwchradd cyfrwng Saesneg. Ond dwi'n argyhoeddedig—es i i ysgol cyfrwng Saesneg, ac mi oeddwn i'n lwcus iawn fy mod i’n siarad Cymraeg ar yr aelwyd. Ond y gwir amdani ydy bod y mwyafrif llethol o'm ffrindiau i o fewn yr ysgol yna yn methu â cynnal sgwrs yn y Gymraeg ar ôl iddyn nhw adael ysgol ac ar ôl iddyn nhw dderbyn addysg ail-iaith yn y Gymraeg am rhyw 12 mlynedd. Felly, doedd hynny ddim yn gweithio yn fy marn i, ac mae'n rhaid i ni newid hynny os ydyn ni am wireddu uchelgais 'Cymraeg 2050'.
I think we're waiting to see. I asked the Minister at the meeting on Monday where we were in terms of a framework. I think the situation in terms of English-medium schools is crucially important here. The targets within 'Cymraeg 2050', in terms of the percentage of pupils in English-medium education who are fluent in Welsh at 16, are very challenging indeed. And the the truth of the matter is, unless there is a major change in the way that Welsh is taught within English-medium schools at the moment, then we won't reach that target. And that's why I was very eager to see a statutory code. As you said, there was a compromise in relation to the framework, but I have to accept that that's what was agreed by the Senedd, so I'm very eager to see the detail of the framework and, even more importantly, the timetable in terms of the publication of that framework. The Minister told us on Monday that the framework is being drafted at the moment. He's very eager that there should be meetings with us before the end of the year. So, I will be doing everything within my power to ensure that those discussions are constructive and that we convince the Minister in terms of any concerns that we may have in terms of the framework that's drawn up.
There are also questions arising, of course, in terms of the qualifications at the end of the journey through English-medium secondary schools. But I am convinced—I went to an English-medium school myself, and I was fortunate to speak Welsh at home. But the truth of the matter is that the vast majority of my friends in that school couldn't hold a conversation through the medium of Welsh once they'd left school and they'd been taught second language Welsh for around 12 years. So, that simply wasn't working in my view, and we have to change that if we are to deliver the ambitions of 'Cymraeg 2050'.
Sorry, I don't know if I'm supposed to unmute myself or the host is.
I think leave it; it's fine.
I leave it, do I? Okay.
I appreciate that answer, and it certainly chimes with some of my experience about how it's difficult to sustain learning Welsh, because the reason I'm not asking my questions in Welsh today is because of the summer break, in which I didn't speak much Welsh. It's something that’s very, very difficult to sustain. I think we really would have welcomed your comments—they could have been useful in the previous session with the Minister, but no doubt we’ll go back to these later.
With regard to the workforce, as a former university lecturer watching Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol at work, there's a definite challenge of providing teaching capacity to deliver as well, and you’ve made recommendations on that. How confident are you that we’ll see some progress there?
Dwi’n ffyddiog, er buaswn i wedi licio cael dipyn bach mwy o fanylder ynglŷn ag amserlen. Yn y pen draw, mi oedd yna ymrwymiad ar lafar gan y Gweinidog blaenorol ynglŷn â chynllun 10 mlynedd ar gyfer newid y gyfundrefn hyfforddiant athrawon. Mae'r ymrwymiad yna yn bwysig yn fy marn i. Y gwir amdani ydy ein bod ni wedi gweld llithriad yn ystod y pum mlynedd olaf yma o ran canran yr athrawon sydd yn gadael ein colegau ni sydd yn medru addysgu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, ac mae'n rhaid inni newid hynny yn gyflym iawn.
Eto dydd Llun mi oedd y Gweinidog yn awyddus i gadarnhau bod yna gynllun yn cael ei baratoi, ond dwi'n awyddus iawn i gael mwy o fanylder ynglŷn ag erbyn pryd fydd y cynllun yna ar gael i ni ei ddarllen o a hefyd i ni ei herio fo os dydyn ni ddim yn credu ei fod o'n cyrraedd y nod. A hefyd dwi'n gobeithio yn ystod y misoedd nesaf yma fod yna gyfle i ni ddylanwadu ar y cynllun wrth iddo fo gael ei baratoi. Felly, dwi'n meddwl bod yr ymrwymiad yna, ond mae angen i ni weld mwy o weithredu.
I am confident, although I would have liked to have seen a little more detail as to the timetable. Ultimately, there was an oral commitment made by the previous Minister on a 10-year plan for changes to the teacher training regime. That commitment is important in my view. The truth of the matter is that we have seen some slippage over this past five years in terms of the percentage of teachers leaving our colleges able to teach through the medium of Welsh, and we have to change that very quickly.
Again on Monday the Minister was eager to confirm that a plan was being prepared, but I am very eager to see more detail as to when that plan will be available so that we can first of all read it and then challenge it if we don't believe that it's ambitious enough. And I also think that during the next few months there may be an opportunity for us to influence the plan as it's drafted. So, I think the commitment is there, but we need to see more action.
And do you think that, therefore, a compromise needs to be made in the teaching of Welsh in English language schools in any way because of that? Or do you think that it's something that will cause problems more in the future than currently—the capacity of the workforce?
Mae capasiti yn broblem enfawr, wrth gwrs. Dydy'r capasiti ddim yn ddigonol ar hyn o bryd ar gyfer beth sy'n cael ei gynnig. Dyna'r broblem sydd gennym ni. Felly, dwi'n glir fy marn bod yn rhaid inni gael rhyw fath o chwyldro ynglŷn â sut mae'r Gymraeg yn cael ei haddysgu o fewn ysgolion cyfrwng Saesneg, neu'r gwir amdani yw waeth inni daflu'r targed o fewn 'Cymraeg 2050' i'r ochr, achos does yna ddim gobaith mul inni gyrraedd y targed. Mae hynny yn gwneud yr her o ran hyfforddi'r gweithlu'n fwy, ond, yn fy marn i, dylwn ni ddim osgoi ceisio cyrraedd yr her yna, os ydy o'n bosib.
Rydym ni wedi creu rhyw fath o ystadegau ynglŷn â faint o athrawon ychwanegol fydd eu hangen os ydy'r Llywodraeth am wireddu. Ond mae yna bob math o bethau yma. Mae yna gwestiynau'n codi o ran pa fath o hyfforddiant sy'n cael ei rhoi o ran y Gymraeg i'r athrawon i gyd sy'n cael eu hyfforddi. Nid jest mater o hyfforddi athrawon sydd yn medru addysgu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg ydy o, ond beth am y rhai hynny sydd ar ôl—beth maen nhw'n mynd i'w wneud o ran eu sgiliau Cymraeg? Mae'r myfyrwyr yna wedi derbyn 12 mlynedd o addysg Gymraeg, ac eto, pan fyddan nhw'n cyrraedd coleg, dŷn ni'n gwneud dim i adeiladu ar yr addysg yna a'u gallu nhw i gyfrannu tuag at ein ffigurau ni. Roedden ni dros 300 o athrawon yn brin yn 2019-20, felly dydyn ni ddim hyd yn oed yn cyrraedd y nod ar hyn o bryd—dyna'r pwynt dwi'n trio'i wneud—heb unrhyw fath o chwyldro; dwi'n meddwl ein bod ni'n 461 yn brin o ran ysgolion uwchradd. Felly, mae maint yr her yn syfrdanol, ond y gwir amdani ydy dydyn ni ddim yn mynd i wneud unrhyw beth os y cwbl dŷn ni'n ei wneud ydy sôn am faint yr her am nifer o flynyddoedd.
Capacity is a huge problem, of course. The capacity at present isn't adequate in terms of what's being offered, and that's the problem that we have. So, I am clear in my view that we need some sort of transformation in how Welsh is taught within English-medium schools, or the truth is that we may as well throw that target within 'Cymraeg 2050' to one side, because we have no hope whatsoever of achieving it. And that makes the challenge in terms of workforce training even greater, but, in my view, we shouldn't avoid trying to deliver against that challenge, if it's at all possible.
We have drawn up some stats as to how many additional teachers will be required if the Government is to deliver, but there are all sorts of things here. There are questions arising in terms of what kind of training is provided in terms of Welsh-language skills for all teachers undergoing training. It's not simply a matter of training those teachers who are able to teach through the medium of Welsh, but what about those others—what are they are going to do in terms of their Welsh-language skills? Those students will have had 12 years of Welsh language education, but when they get to college, we do nothing to build on those skills and their ability to contribute towards our targets. We were over 300 teachers short in 2019-20, so we're not even reaching those targets at the moment—that's the point I'm trying to make—without some of transformation; I think we were 461 short in terms of secondary schools. So, the scale of the challenge is shocking, but the truth is that we won't do anything if all we do is continue to discuss the scale of the challenge for many years.
Pan oeddech chi'n dweud bod angen chwyldro yn sut mae'r Gymraeg yn cael ei haddysgu drwy ysgolion Saesneg, roedd nifer fawr o aelodau'r pwyllgor yn—beth bynnag ydy nodio pen.
When you said that there needed to be a transformation or revolution in terms of the way the Welsh language is taught in English-medium settings, many committee members were nodding their heads in agreement.
Dwi ddim yn meddwl ein bod ni'n bod yn deg iawn efo rhai o'r athrawon chwaith, achos y gwir amdani, o fewn rhai ysgolion, ydy bod yna athrawon yn cael eu gofyn i ddysgu Cymraeg ail iaith jest o achos eu bod nhw'n siarad Cymraeg eu hunain, a heb unrhyw sgiliau o gwbl i gyflwyno ail iaith i bobl ifanc. Ac os ydyn ni'n edrych ar fodelau eraill ar draws y byd, y gwir amdani ydy bod angen sgiliau ychwanegol i ddysgu ail iaith i berson. Felly, dyna'r chwyldro. Ar ben hynny, mae angen edrych ar y cwricwlwm o ran Cymraeg ail iaith, a hefyd y cymhwyster ar y diwedd. Dyna pam rôn i'n awyddus bod y gwaith yna'n cael ei wneud cyn i Fil y cwricwlwm cael ei basio, ond yn amlwg mi oedd yr amserlen yn eithaf tynn. Y gwir amdani ydy bod yna—. Oes, mae yna sylw'n cael ei rhoi i'r angen i gynyddu darpariaeth cyfrwng Cymraeg a dwyieithog, ond, dwi'n meddwl, yn y Gymru newydd, mae angen inni beidio ag anghofio gofynion addysgu plant o fewn ein hysgolion cyfrwng Saesneg hefyd.
I don't think that we're being fair to some of those teachers either, because the truth is that, within some schools, there are teachers who are asked to teach Welsh as a second language just because they're Welsh speakers themselves, without having any skills in teaching a second language to young people. And if we look at other models across the world, the truth is that you need additional skills to teach a second language. So, that's the revolution needed, or transformation. And, in addition to that, we need to look at the curriculum in terms of second language Welsh, and also the qualification at the end of that journey. That's why I was eager for that work to be done before the curriculum Bill was passed, but clearly the timetable was quite tight. The truth of the matter is that, yes, there has been attention paid to the need to increase Welsh-medium and bilingual provision, but, I think, in this new Wales, we shouldn't forget the needs and requirements in terms of teaching pupils in English-medium settings too.
Diolch am hynny. Hefin, oedd unrhyw beth arall oeddech chi eisiau ei ofyn? Na, chi'n iawn. Grêt. Alun, oedd unrhyw gwestiynau olaf roeddech chi eisiau eu gofyn?
Thank you. Hefin, was there anything else you wanted to ask? No. Excellent. Alun, any final questions from you?
Dwi'n gyfforddus gydag atebion y comisiynydd.
No, I'm comfortable with the commissioner's responses.
Iawn. Grêt. Reit, dŷn ni mewn i'r chwarter awr olaf, gomisiynydd. Fe wnawn ni fynd drwy'r rhain mor gyflym ag rŷn ni'n gallu, ond, o ran atebolrwydd ariannol, sut byddech chi'n disgrifio'r sefyllfa ariannol yn eich swyddfa ar hyn o bryd?
Okay. We are into our last 15 minutes, commissioner. We will go through these questions as quickly as possible, but, in terms of financial accountability, how would you describe the financial position within your office at the moment?
Rydyn ni'n ymwybodol bod y flwyddyn yma wedi bod yn anarferol iawn, i ddweud y gwir, o achos bod rhai—. Dwi'n meddwl bod cyllidebau pob corff cyhoeddus yn wahanol iawn i'r disgwyl. Y gwir amdani ydy bod mwyafrif ein gwariant ni ar staff ac mae'r staff yna wedi bod yn gweithio o gartref heb ymweld ag unrhyw gorff arall ers 18 mis erbyn hyn. Felly, mae yna rai pethau lle mae'r gwariant yn llawer iawn is na'r disgwyl, ac mae hynny'n creu sefyllfa lle mae'n rhaid inni fod yn ymwybodol o danwariant. Ond ar yr ochr arall, o'n hochr ni, wrth gwrs, mae yna ofynion ychwanegol sydd wedi codi yn annisgwyl o achos yr ymosodiad seiber. Felly, ar yr un ochr, mae yna danwariant, ac ar yr ochr arall, mae yna ofynion ychwanegol sydd y tu hwnt i'r disgwyl, achos mi oedden ni'n hyderus iawn ynglŷn â'n rheolaeth ariannol ar y strategaeth TG hyd at 10 Rhagfyr.
Mae yna hefyd ystyriaethau eraill o ran beth yw'r effaith o ran y tanwariant ar y gronfa wrth gefn ac ati, felly mae hynny wedi bod yn ystyriaeth yn ystod y flwyddyn. Dwi hefyd yn ymwybodol bod yna gynlluniau gan y Llywodraeth i edrych ar sefyllfa cronfeydd wrth gefn yn gyffredinol. Fe wnaethon ni dderbyn llythyr ddoe gan y Llywodraeth yn egluro yn union beth ydy'r cynigion ar hyn o bryd. Ond eto, rhag ofn ichi feddwl fy mod i jest ar unrhyw fanylion yn trosglwyddo unai at Gwenith neu Dyfan—ond Dyfan sy'n gyfrifol am yr ochr gyllidol, felly dwi eisiau iddo fo esbonio i chi'n fanwl, achos mae'n bwysig hefyd o ran y gronfa wrth gefn bod yna gronfa statudol wrth gefn, ond hefyd mae yna gronfa waelodol sydd angen inni esbonio er mwyn ichi ddeall yn union lle rydyn ni arni ar hyn o bryd.
We are aware that this year has been very unusual indeed, if truth be told, because—. I think the budgets of all public bodies are very different to what they may have expected. The truth of the matter is that most of our expenditure has been on staff, and those staff have been working from home without visiting any other organisation for 18 months. So, there are some areas where expenditure is far lower than we'd expected, and that creates a situation where we have to be aware of the issue of underspend. But on the other side of the coin, from our perspective, there are additional requirements that have arisen unexpectedly because of the cyber attack. So, on the one hand, there is an underspend, but on the other, there are additional requirements that are over and above what was expected, because we were very confident in our financial management of the ICT strategy up until 10 December.
There are also other considerations in terms of what the impact would be in terms of reserves, so that's been a consideration during this year. I'm also aware that there are plans by Government to look at reserves in more general terms. We received a letter yesterday from the Government explaining exactly what the proposals are in relation to that. But in case you feel that I am just transferring the issue to Gwenith or Dyfan when there's any detail required—but Dyfan is responsible for the financial side of things, so I want him to explain things to you in detail, because it is important. In terms of our reserves, there is a statutory reserve fund, but there's also a baseline reserve that we need to explain so that you can understand exactly what the position is at the moment.
Diolch am hynna. Fel y dywedodd Aled, mi oedd yna rywfaint o danwariant llynedd. Rydyn ni wedi adrodd ar hynny yn yr adroddiad blynyddol. Mi oedd yna ddau brif reswm am hynny, sef COVID a'r ymosodiad seiber. Gwnaeth hynny effeithio ar ein gallu ni i wario ar rai pethau fel teithio a threuliau—effaith COVID oedd hynny—ac wedyn roedd yna danwariant ar ein cyllideb rhaglenni ni a hefyd y gyllideb gyflogaeth—cyfuniad o ffactorau yn fanna, sef COVID a'r ymosodiad seiber.
Mae gennym ni bolisi cronfa wrth gefn, lle rydyn ni'n cadw 5 y cant o'n cyllideb refeniw, sydd yn rhyw £160,000, ynghyd â £100,000 hefyd ar gyfer achosion cyfreithiol. Felly yn sgil y tanwariant y llynedd, mi wnaeth ein cronfa wrth gefn ni godi. Mae gennym ni gynlluniau eleni i leihau'r gronfa. Mae hynny'n bennaf yn sgil y cynlluniau TG ychwanegol sydd gennym ni, y strategaeth TG oedd gennym ni mewn lle beth bynnag ac wedyn gofynion ychwanegol yn sgil yr ymosodiad seiber. Felly, mae yna danwariant wedi bod, mae hynny wedi arwain at gynnydd yn y gronfa wrth gefn, ond mae gennym ni gynlluniau eleni rŵan i leihau'r gronfa.
Thank you for that. As Aled has said, there was some underspend last year, and we reported on that in the annual report. There were two main reasons for that, namely COVID and the cyber attack. That has an impact on our ability to spend on certain things such as travel and subsistence—that was the impact of COVID—and then there was underspend in terms of our programmes budget and the employment budget—that was a combination of COVID and the cyber attack.
We have a reserves policy where we keep 5 per cent of our revenue budget, which is some £160,000, along with £100,000 for legal costs. So, as a result of the underspend last year, our reserve increased. We have plans this year to reduce our reserves. That is mainly as a result of the new ICT proposals, the strategy that was in place in any case, but then our additional demands in light of the cyber attack. So, there has been underspend, which has led to an increase in reserves, but we do have plans this year to reduce those reserves.
Diolch am hwnna, Dyfan. Gomisiynydd neu Dyfan, o ran y cynnydd sydd wedi bod o ran ffioedd cyfreithiol ac os mae galw wedi bod arnoch chi i gymryd rhan mewn achosion llys, ydych chi'n gallu dweud wrthyn ni rywfaint ynglŷn â sut dŷch chi'n ymateb i'r her o ran y cynnydd yna sydd wedi bod? Mae e'n anodd, rwy'n cymryd, i wybod neu i gynllunio o flaen llaw am rywbeth fel achosion llys achos does neb yn gallu gwybod faint bydd yn codi. Felly, mae'n rhaid bod hwnna'n her.
Thank you for that, Dyfan. Commissioner or Dyfan, in terms of the increase there's been in legal costs and whether you've had to participate in court proceedings, can you tell us a little about how you respond to the challenge in that sense? It's difficult to plan for something like a court case, because nobody can know how much the costs will be. So, that must be a challenge.
Ydy. I ddweud y gwir, yn ystod y flwyddyn flaenorol, mi oedd o yn broblem enfawr, achos mi oedd y gyllideb wedi cael ei gosod ar lefel lle'r oedd y gwariant dros dwywaith lefel y gyllideb. Felly, mi oeddem ni yn ddibynnol ar danwariant o fewn meysydd eraill er mwyn medru cyrraedd y costau cyfreithiol hynny.
Pan wnes i edrych ar y sefyllfa efo Dyfan a Gwenith, beth oedd yn ddiddorol oedd bod gwariant ar gostau cyfreithiol yn flynyddol yn wahanol iawn o flwyddyn i flwyddyn. Mae hynny, wrth gwrs, achos bod gan bawb hawl i fynd at y tribiwnlys. Ac felly mae'n rhaid inni ymateb os oes yna achos tribiwnlys. A hefyd, mi oeddwn i'n awyddus iawn—a dwi'n meddwl roedd yn bwysig iawn ar y pryd—ein bod ni hefyd yn ymwneud ag achos yn yr Uchel Lys o ran un o'n safonau llunio polisi ni, lle roedden ni'n grediniol bod y safon yna wedi cael ei dorri gan yr awdurdod lleol. Mi oedd y costau'n eithaf sylweddol, ond, yn fy marn i, yn gostau roedd modd inni ddweud ei bod yn iawn ein bod ni'n eu talu nhw, felly.
Erbyn hyn, yn y flwyddyn rydyn ni ynddi ar hyn o bryd, mae'r patrwm wedi newid eto. Felly, mae hynny'n dangos, dwi'n meddwl, pa mor bwysig ydy cael rhyw fath o ddealltwriaeth ynglŷn â'r ffaith bod angen rhywfaint o gostau cyfreithiol wrth gefn jest rhag ofn, achos y gwir amdani oedd y byddwn ni wedi gwneud defnydd o dros hanner y costau yna o fewn y flwyddyn flaenorol. Yn amlwg hefyd, ac mae hyn yn rhan o'r drafodaeth rhyngom ni a'r Llywodraeth, rydyn ni mewn sefyllfa anodd iawn lle rydyn ni'n llwyr ddibynnol ar y Llywodraeth o ran ein harian ni, ac eto mae yna bosibiliadau bod costau cyfreithiol yn cael eu gwario mewn achos yn erbyn y Llywodraeth. Felly, dyna sydd yn creu rhyw ansicrwydd.
Yr unig beth y buaswn i'n ei ddweud o ran cronfa wrth gefn yw dwi'n meddwl ei bod o'n dueddiad o fewn pob corff cyhoeddus dwi wedi bod yn aelod ohono fo eich bod chi'n ceisio gwarchod y gronfa wrth gefn a, bron, os ydych chi'n gwneud defnydd o'r gronfa wrth gefn, rydych chi wedi methu o ran rhyw reolaeth ariannol. Ond, dwi'n credu yn y pen draw bod y profiad rydyn ni wedi'i gael eleni o ran yr ymosodiad seiber yn dangos pa mor bwysig ydy cronfa wrth gefn. A'r gwir amdani ydy, er ein bod ni'n wynebu costau sylweddol o ran ailadeiladu, a bod hynny yn rhannol achos ein bod ni'n awyddus iawn i gael systemau mewn lle sy'n ein gwneud ni'n fwy effeithiol fel tim, sy'n galluogi ein swyddogion ni i weithio yn well, ond hefyd sydd yn rhoi gwell gwasanaeth i ddinasyddion yn y pen draw ac i bobl sy'n dod aton ni i gwyno, ei bod hi'n briodol inni wario yr arian sydd o fewn y gronfa wrth gefn er mwyn sicrhau ein bod ni'n medru buddsoddi yn y systemau yna.
Felly, mae o'n batrwm cymhleth, ond y darlun cyffredinol dwi eisiau dweud wrthych chi yw bod gennym ni reolaeth ariannol da. Rydyn ni wedi derbyn adroddiad diamod unwaith eto gan Archwilio Cymru, sy'n bwysig inni, wrth ystyried ein bod ni wedi colli ein systemau ariannol am gyfnod o fisoedd. Felly, mae hynny o bwys. Ond, yn amlwg, mae'n rhaid inni gadw golwg ar y newidiadau sy'n deillio o newidiadau COVID-19 a hefyd o ran yr ymosodiad seiber ei hun.
Yes. During the previous year, it was a huge problem, because the budget had been set at a level where expenditure was over twice the level of the budget. So, we were reliant on underspend within other budgets in order to actually meet those legal costs.
When I looked at the situation with Dyfan and Gwenith, what was interesting was that expenditure on legal costs on an annual basis was very different from one year to the next. And that of course is because everyone has a right to take a case to tribunal, and therefore we do have to respond if there is a tribunal case. And I was very eager—and I think it was important at the time—that we were also involved with a High Court case in terms of one of our policy standards, where we were convinced that that standard had not been met by a particular local authority. And the costs there were quite significant, but in my view they were costs that could be justified.
Now, in the current year, the pattern has changed again, and that I think demonstrates how important it is to have some sort of understanding of the fact that we do need some reserves to pay legal costs as a contingency, because the truth of the matter is that we would have made use of over half of those reserves in the previous year. Clearly, too, and this is part of the discussion between ourselves and Government, we are in a very difficult situation where we are entirely reliant on Government in terms of our funding, but there are possibilities that legal costs could be spent in a case against the Government. So, that's what creates some level of uncertainty.
All I would say in terms of the reserves is I think there is a tendency in all public bodies I've been involved with that you try to safeguard your reserves, and almost if you dip into those reserves that you've failed in some way in terms of financial control and financial management. But I think, ultimately, the experience that we've had this year in terms of our cyber attack just demonstrates how important it is to have those reserves. And the truth of the matter is that, although we are facing costs, significant costs, in terms of rebuilding, and that that is partially because we are very eager to have systems in place that let us as a team work more effectively and allow our officials to work more effectively, too, but also provides a better service for citizens and those approaching us with complaints, it is appropriate that we do spend the funds that we hold in reserve in order to ensure that we can invest in these systems.
So, it's a complex pattern, but the general picture I want to paint for you is that we have strong financial management. We've received an unconditional report from Audit Wales, which is important to us, given that we lost our financial systems for a period of months. So, having that report not being qualified is important to us. But, clearly, we do have to keep an eye on changes emerging from COVID and also changes as a result of the cyber attack itself.
Diolch ichi, Gomisiynydd. Mae'n flin iawn gen i, rydyn ni wedi rhedeg mas o amser, jest â bod. Roedd gennym ni rai cwestiynau o ran yr adroddiad sicrwydd. A fyddech chi'n hapus inni ysgrifennu atoch chi gyda'n cwestiynau ar hynny? Achos dwi ddim yn meddwl y byddwn ni'n gallu gwneud cyfiawnder â'r maes eang o fewn pum munud.
Thank you, Commissioner. I'm sorry, we have run out of time. We did have some questions in terms of the assurance report. Would you be happy for us to write to you with our questions on that? Because I don't think we can do that broad area justice in five minutes.
Byddem, wrth gwrs. Ac os oes yna unrhyw gwestiynau pellach yn deillio o'n hymateb ni, rydyn ni'n fwy na pharod i ddod yn ôl.
Of course, yes. And if there are any further questions emerging from our evidence, then I'd be more than happy to get back to you.
Grêt. Diolch yn fawr iawn. Oni bai bod gan Aelod unrhyw gwestiwn pellach—dwi ddim yn gweld unrhyw Aelod yn codi llaw. A gaf i ddiolch i chi ac i Dyfan a Gwenith hefyd am roi tystiolaeth i ni y bore yma? Mae yna nifer o bwyntiau dŷn ni wedi cymryd nodyn ohonyn nhw lle y byddwn ni'n gofyn am fwy o wybodaeth gennych chi, a bydd y clercod hefyd yn danfon transgript atoch chi o'r hyn dŷch chi wedi ei ddweud. Ond am nawr, diolch yn fawr iawn i'r tri ohonoch chi, a dwi'n siŵr y byddwn ni mewn cysylltiad eto yn fuan iawn.
Excellent. Thank you very much. Unless any Member has any further questions—I don't see any Member indicating. So, may I thank you and Dyfan and Gwenith for providing evidence this morning? There are a number of points that we've noted where we will be asking for further information from you, and the clerks will also send you a transcript. But for the time being, thank you very much, and I'm sure we will be in touch again very soon.
Diolch yn fawr.
Thank you.
Fe wnawn ni symud ymlaen, Aelodau, at eitem 5, sef papurau i'w nodi. Mae yna sawl papur gyda ni i'w nodi heddiw. Eitem 5.1, sef llythyr gan y Gweinidog Cyfiawnder Cymdeithasol at Gadeirydd y pwyllgor yma a Chadeirydd y Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb a Chyfiawnder Cymdeithasol ar argyfwng ffoaduriaid Afghanistan. Eitem 5.2, llythyr gan Ddirprwy Weinidog y Celfyddydau a Chwaraeon, a'r Prif Chwip at yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Dechnoleg Ddigidol, Diwylliant, y Cyfryngau a Chwaraeon am berchnogaeth Channel 4. Eitem 5.3, llythyr gan gomisiynydd y Gymraeg at Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai. Eitem 5.4, llythyr at Lywodraeth Cymru yn dilyn y sesiwn graffu roedden ni wedi ei chael gyda Gweinidog yr Economi a Dirprwy Weinidog y Celfyddydau a Chwaraeon, a'r Prif Chwip. Ac yn olaf, eitem 5.5, llythyr at Lywodraeth Cymru ar effaith gwerthu Bad Wolf. Ydy'r Aelodau'n fodlon nodi'r papurau hynny? Grêt.
We'll move on to item 5, papers to note. We have a number of papers to note. Item 5.1, a letter from the Minister for Social Justice to the Chair of this committee and the Chair of the Equality and Social Justice Committee on the Welsh Government's response to the Afghan refugee crisis. Item 5.2, a letter from the Deputy Minister for Arts and Sport, and Chief Whip to the Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport on the ownership of Channel 4. Item 5.3, a letter from the Welsh Language Commissioner to the Chair of the Local Government and Housing Committee. Item 5.4, a letter to the Welsh Government following the ministerial session with the Minister for the Economy and the Deputy Minister for Arts and Sport, and Chief Whip. And finally, item 5.5, a letter to the Welsh Government on the impact of the sale of Bad Wolf. Are Members content to note those papers? Excellent.
Cynnig:
bod y pwyllgor yn penderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.42(ix).
Motion:
that the committee resolves to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(ix).
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Rydyn ni'n symud at eitem 6, sef cynnig i wahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod. Yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.42, rwy'n cynnig bod y pwyllgor yn penderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod. Ydy'r Aelodau yn fodlon derbyn y cynnig? Ie. Ocê. Os felly, mi wnawn ni yn awr barhau yn breifat, ac mi wna i aros i glywed gan y peirianwyr ein bod ni yn breifat.
We'll move to item 6, a motion to exclude the public for the remainder of the meeting. In accordance with Standing Order 17.42, I propose that the committee resolves to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting. Are Members content? Yes. We will move into private session, and I will await confirmation from our engineers that we have entered a private session.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Daeth rhan gyhoeddus y cyfarfod i ben am 12:02.
Motion agreed.
The public part of the meeting ended at 12:02.